Editing Talk:Leoben Conoy (New Caprica copy)/Archive 1

== Note on Cylon Numbers ==

I don't know what other people think, but now that four of the twelve Cylon model numbers are accounted for, can we put a note on Conoy saying something to the effect of, "Leoben Conoy is either Number 1, 2, 4, 7, 9, or 10? I couldn't figure out how to place it.--[[User:Wldkt1|Wldkt1]] 18:34, 25 February 2006 (EST)
:There's no way to word it without that being clumsy. We shouldn't make a note of it until we know for certain. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 18:40, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:Don't bother doing anything saying "well, it's one of these 8 numbers" is just too complicated.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:11, 25 February 2006 (EST)

I'm betting on Leoben being number 4. Anyone else want to venture a guess (just for fun)? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:16, 25 February 2006 (EST)

I don't know, he could be number 2--[[User:Wldkt1|Wldkt1]] 20:21, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:My bets are on Leoben 7, Simon 4, Cavil 2.  Lower numbers seem more administrative in bearing, more practical than intuitive, and their simulation of humanity more based on cynical experience than gut (not to mention the actors are older - sorry Lucy).  Leoben seems more of an intuitive, younger (for a male cylon), rogue individual.  More like Sharon 8 than Doral 5, Cavil or D'Anna 3.--[[User:Viperetto13|Viperetto13]] 22:24, 27 December 2006 (CST)

::I would also guess he's Number Seven. That way the four from the miniseries would be Five, Six, Seven and Eight. But Leoben being Number 4  and Simon being Number 7 would be my next guess. I have a feeling that the 7 known cylons are numbers 3 through 9 and that there is a male and female for 1 and 2 and then two females and a male for 10-12. But this is all guesswork. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 16:49, 18 January 2007 (EST)

Hi. I feel I should point out that both the DVD cover and an entry in RDM's Blog at Scifi.com refer to this Cylon as 'Leobon', not 'Leoben'.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:39, 4 March (EST)

:The official site is notriously bad on exact spelling; IMDB lists it with an e.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:41, 4 March 2006 (CST)

I'm going to bet on Leoben being Number 1, because "Leoben Conoy" is an anagram for "Boy Clone One." Maybe it's just a coincidence, but it's as good a reason as any, considering "Leoben Conoy" is a strange name to begin with. [[User:Mr. Salty|Mr. Salty]]

== Spelling? ==
I don't mean to be dense here, but just why is Leoben's surname consistently spelled "Conoy" when Roslin distinctly pronounces it as "Conroy" in [[Flesh and Bone]]?  I've poked around a bit and this is the only instance that I can find of the name actually being spoken in the series.  Did Roslin mispronounce it or is this a misspelling that has gotten way out of hand?  Just wondering about that for a while now...--[[User:grugnir|Grugnir]]

:Apparently this is a topic of [http://s9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=4282 debate]. Can anybody listen to the episode in question to confirm definitively on the "Conoy" vs. "Conroy"? Information from the episode would definitely trump the imdb credits. (But credits from the show itself would be valuable...) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:50, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

::Well, we always new it as Conoy for over a year after the mini (somehow) before Roslin open the controversy by saying "Conroy", but keep in mind she isn't exactly reliable since it was the first time she'd heard the name, at least in a long time. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18 April 2006

:I'll work on some spectrograms ASAP. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 19:18, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

::If you go to the skiffy discussion of it, someone found the proof we had back when the mini aired, the credits:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/clivex/mini_credits_01.jpg

Credit: Clivex

--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:50 18 April 2006

==Siblings==
Should we mention that all humanoid Cylons are technically siblings, as has been mentioned on screen is thus canon?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:59, 17 March 2006 (EST)

:It would be nice I think. After all, the Cavil's referred to each other as "Brother", and not because of G-Cavil's role as a priest. Six also called Sharon "little sister". This in itself supports not only what they call one another but also possibly supporting the age theory. I just agree that it would be good to add. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17 March 2006

::It's an "attitude" but not really true; no it should not be included.  I mean, Sharon actually said she "thought of" ''Starbuck'' as her "big sister".  It should not be put into a character template like that. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 21:47, 19 March 2006 (CST)

:Absolutely not. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 21:48, 19 March 2006 (CST)
::Don't they say "We are gods childeren." at one point? I have to go back to find the excat wording and when it's said, but I am pretty sure Six (In Guais's Head) says something like this at one point when Eight and the good doctor are together. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 22:14, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:::Shane, it doesn't matter. The term "siblings" does not apply to Cylons in the conventionally understood sense. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 22:18, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:::: Mine was just a comment.. Just a comment. But if you want my option.. [[Wikipedia:Sibbling]] defines it as<br/>

::::'''A family is a domestic group of people (or a number of domestic groups), typically affiliated by birth or marriage, or by comparable legal relationships — including domestic partnership, adoption, surname and (in some cases) ownership (as occurred in the Roman Empire).'''

::::'''Although many people (including social scientists) have understood familial relationships in terms of "blood", many anthropologists have argued that one must understand the notion of "blood" metaphorically, and that many societies understand 'family' through other concepts rather than through "blood."'''<br/>

::::Blood or in our case is Synthic Pathways. They are all the same. They seems to have a common bond in which they were formed. They were rasied together, they were "[[Downloaded]]" together, they even have could be considered a [[Wikipedia:Clan]] which falls under Family. As long as one has an understanding of where they came from, in this case God, to them, they have a system of Heiarchy. Even stated right here in [[Cylon_agent]] does it say, "''Cylon agents can be programmed to believe that they are truly human. These are known as "sleeper" agents. Sleeper agents appear to have a low-level Cylon personality that can conduct operations while placing the human sleeper personality "on-hold". The first copy of Sharon Valerii, known by her callsign of "Boomer" on battlestar Galactica, had little awareness of her true nature until her arrest for the attempted assassination of William Adama (Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II). This sleeper agent conducted or aided in sabotage operations within the Fleet ("Water", "Litmus"). Most agent copies, particularly Numbers Five and Six, imitate human personalities, but are fully aware of their true nature.''". This gives me proof that we do beleive that they are somewhat connected and they do feel like Siblings. If this is cause to go against this, we should change that page to say, "They are not connected to one another. No Cylons ever hangs out with another due to the fact they are not related."  Not to mention that Cavil says "Hello Brother" as he enters the cell. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 22:32, 19 March 2006 (CST)

:::::Shane just let it '''go''', it's not supported. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 22:38, 19 March 2006 (CST)
::::::By two people out of a little over 1,000 people on the Wiki? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 22:40, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:::::::The most it deserves is the (possible) note that they appear to think of eachother as siblings.  --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 23:36, 19 March 2006 (CST)
::::::::I put that note in the Cylon History article. I thought it might be nice to add them as Siblings, but if the majority is against it I don't mind. Just an idea.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:14, 20 March 2006 (EST)
::::::::: My count from this is... --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 12:40, 20 March 2006 (CST)
:::::::::::It's really not that important.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:48, 20 March 2006 (EST)
:::::::::::Although it can provide a useful guideline, this wiki is not run on a majority rules basis. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 18:19, 28 March 2006 (CST)

To chime in... I believe the whole "brother" or "sister" thing is analogous with groups of friends calling each other "brother" or "sister".  They're not related by bloodlines, but rather by friendship.  Also, the whole "brother" and "sister" terminology has more religious over tones, given the Cylon's creation of a monotheistic religion. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:03, 28 March 2006 (CST)
:Except that the Cavils aren't religious. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:54, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

== Straw Vote ==
I motion to kill the vote, or at least archive it, as it is kind of an eyesore and consensus has likely long since been imposed on the configuration of the article. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:30, 18 April 2006 (CDT) <br/>
'''Support'''
# [[User:Shane|Shane]]
# [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]]
# Minor - [[User:Durandal|Durandal]]
#Minor- [[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]]
'''Not Support'''
# [[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]]
# [[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]]
# [[User:Mrxerox|Mrxerox]]
# [[User:Day|Day]] <sup>([[User talk:Day|talk]])</sup> (This is kind of silly, no?)
# [[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] (yep)
'''Neutral'''

==Merge "Gemenon Traveller Copy" and "New Caprica Copy"==
I think it's pretty clear, and more than implied with several lines on screen, that the Leoben who captures Kara in New Caprica is the same one whom she interrogated before. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:37, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
:I want to agree, but didn't the Leoben in "Flesh and Bone" explicitly acknowledge that he was out of download range?
::Thrace: …I think that you're afraid. You're afraid that we're a long way from home. What if you don't transfer all the way back? What if, when you die here, you really die? It's your chance to find out if you're really god or just a bunch of circuits with a bad haircut. 
::Conoy: I'm not afraid of dying. 
:Later:
::Conoy: The warhead doesn't exist. I made it up. The lieutenant was right; I was too far out. I didn't wanna die, so when I got caught I made up a story to buy some time.
:Of course, and I must resist the urge to slip into outright fanwankery, it's possible that this Leoben simply ''didn't know'' that a Resurrection Ship had been dispatched the follow the fleet. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 23:19, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::My favorite theory is that, like he usually is, he is just BSing them. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:26, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Yeah, I mean, he did also say Adama was a Cylon....The fact that NC Leoben says "To know the face of God is to know madness" in a way that seemed to point him out as the GT copy. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:29, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::::OK, I think we can say that you can't take anything that Leoben Conoy says as truth.  He's says whatever he says simply to play with your mind.  But the fact is that it was the Gemenon Traveller Copy, not the Ragnar Anchorage Copy or any other copy that was connected to Starbuck.  It's a matter of making sense.  Why would any other copy of Leoben be chasing after Starbuck?  1/12 of the Cylon race doesn't have it out specifically for Starbuck, just the 1 nut.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:52, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::Apparently, they ''all'' have it out for Starbuck, as we learned in "The Farm":
::::::Caprica-Valerii: They know who you are, Kara. You're special. Leoben told you that. You have a destiny.
:::::In the end, even though we might suspect it, I don't think we can safely assume that New Caprica-Conoy and Gemenon Traveller-Conoy are the same person. He never explicitly mentioned having memories of their previous encounter, and the Cylons appear to be fascinated with Kara for reasons entirely apart from Conoy, who didn't even appear in "The Farm". --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 02:10, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:There will never be much certainty, since this grey area leads to better plotlines. In my opinion it is clear that they are the same. Which leads me to believe that there has been interrmittent communication with the Cylon fleet: Cylon Consciousness Communications Protocol (Connection oriented or connectionless??). Anyways the new Cylon fleet was recently shown to have another resurrection ship. [[User:Luis F. Gonzalez|Luis F. Gonzalez]] 16:14, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
::Hehe, I'd wonder what might happen if Leoben accidentally leaves hi "love memories" of Kara in the general database for all Leobens to download and then all of them have a thing for Kara. It would be....creepy, yet interesting. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:37, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

==Main Image==
Hey, I've been thinking about Leoben's main image, and I last updated it with a promo pic from "TEOJ", but we recently got one of thim as well from "Rapture", and I think they're both quite good, so I wanted to know which might be generally preferred....

<gallery>
Image:Le0ben.jpg|Picture 1
Image:Leoben2.jpg|Picture 2
</gallery>

What do you think? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:16, 24 December 2006 (CST)
:I'd go with #2. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 17:21, 24 December 2006 (CST)
::I don't know, I'd go with either, #1 is more of a head-on (no pun intended) view which I think is better for the main image of an article. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:02, 24 December 2006 (CST)
:::I dunno, I too was leaning towards #2...--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18:47, 24 December 2006 (CST)
::::I prefer #1, for the reasons Talos gave. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:58, 27 December 2006 (CST)
:::::So, that's a 50/50....anyone else have any thoughts? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 07:09, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:::::: Number 2 is a closer facial image --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 07:37, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:Picture 2 it'll be. If eventually other better promo pics come up, we can discuss it here. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:02, 14 January 2007 (CST)

I like Picture 2, but I'm curious; did Leoben actually appear on the algae planet, or was that scene cut out? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 15:10, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
:It's from a cut scene. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 15:38, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

Since this article is now about a specific copy of Leoben, I replaced the algae planet one with the Gemenon Traveller one, since the former one did not (at least not necessarily) depict this particular copy. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 14:02, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

==Merge with Number Two?==
According to Natalie, his whole model has an obsession with Kara, not just one copy. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 09:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
*Still, this is a singular character, and clumping together all the Twos will make that article very long and unmanageable. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 09:22, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
::I'm not really that sure whether he's a singular character or the whole model line. They could even share memories just like both Sharons do. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 09:32, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
:It seems to me that between Natalie referring to the entire model being interested in Kara, the deleted scene from "A Measure of Salvation," and maybe the fact that every copy independently refers to himself as Leoban, it's being implied that all of the Leobans are interchangeable, and it hasn't been the same individual dealing with Kara each time. This is probably just a plot hole that we're stuck with, since the writers only really individualized the different Sixes and Eights and treated all the other models as if there were just one of each. Maybe just add a note to the bottom saying that all of these encounters weren't necessarily with the same copy.-- [[User:David cgc|David cgc]] 02:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)