Editing Talk:Islanded in a Stream of Stars/Archive 1

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==Spoiler concerning major plot point==
Concerning the spoiler redact in the "Official Statements" section of the article: I gave people the option if they wanted to know or not. Why did you rob them of that option? And there was plenty of reason to suspect it but if you didn't think so why rain on someone else's' parade? If you don't think so that is fine with you but others didn't want to know and if they did they had an instant way of knowing by highlighting. Talk about bad sports!! How did it hurt you to give people a choice? Now if you want to reply could you do so in a manner that doesn't give it away, like sticking to why you feel the need to reveal a spoiler in a manner that gives the reader no choice as to read it or not? [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 18:27, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
:Why are you making this personal? There's no need for emotion about this matter. I merely acted according to the way things work. It's not a spoiler and does not need spoiler text. I don't think information from podcasts is ever considered a spoiler, actually, and this is a statement of what will not be important. In fact, it can be considered background information like filling in the origin of The Colony. The idea that Kara had something to do with Seven was raised and dismissed in the same episode. The information given by "No Exit" is that Daniel is dead and gone, since before Kara's birth. If, for some reason, you really want to consider this a spoiler, you should use spoiler tags on every article where Moore's statement is mentioned, including "Number Seven" and "No Exit". -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:01, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
::I don't mean to make it personal but what you did is unnecessary. I don't see any reason not to let a person have the option of reading it or not. It is not a matter of RDM misleading people, it is whether they want to see the answer or not. I just don't understand why you don't want to give people that choice. It is not that they couldn't see it if they want to but they may not have wanted to when reading other things. You gave the reader no choice in it and I don't understand why you have to print it in the clear.  Sure I know the answer but that doesn't mean I have to reveal it to people who mayn't want to had known. 
::As for the statement that Daniel was dead, sure it was in [[No Exit]] that he was dead and gone but so was Kara wasn't she? (yes there were hints that she was coming back but only hints) So was Ellen Tigh. It was possible given those precedents that Daniel, perhaps only one copy perhaps many, could had survived much to Cavil and the other Cylons surprise. Connect that with his stated sensitivity and is artistic inclinations; The fact that Kara's father played at an Opera House and the visions of Roslin, Athena, Caprica Six and possibly Hera as well of Hera being in an Opera House; That a specter of a piano player Slick that could had been a virtual being like Virtual Six that acted like Kara's father, who upped and disappeared when she was a child, something Slick said he did to his family. That could had been Daniel hiding from Cavil for his life; Slick helping her to write a song that her father taught her as a child. Then from a story point of view the "dead" Daniel could had been helping the humans to survive as a counter to his brother John Cavil who is bent on destroying them made it seemed very plausible. Sure it was completely wrong as it turned out, and congratulations to you if you always believed he was dead and gone, but there were reasons to think along the lines he could had been running things behind the scenes and a '''''LOT''''' of people did. 
::Again I was just giving people the option to find out in the final episode that they were right or wrong or find out now. That is what I don't understand-and upsets me-why not give them a choice? You didn't. That is what seems so unnecessary. If they wanted to know they could. If not then they wouldn't stumbled on to it.  But I won't change it back. I am sorry I even brought it up. Good thing this is the last episodes or I wouldn't post something like that again if the attitude is that it '''''HAS''''' to be revealed somehow and the reader having no choice. That is the bottom line thing: The information was there for those who '''''WANTED''''' to see it and '''''not''''' there, so to speak, for those who didn't. You gave the reader no choice and I don't see that as necessary. It even seems slightly mean spirited. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 23:44, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
:::Trust me, it's not mean-spirited. I'm surprised by how strongly you feel about this. I am just doing my job as an editor. It doesn't seem any more a spoiler than "the pidgeon is not the Cylon God" would be a spoiler, and things that aren't spoilers don't get spoiler-tagged. We don't protect every bit of non-spoiler information that someone might not want to read, it's not a matter of forcing and taking away choice. If you really feel this extremely about it, go ahead and spoiler tag, but remember to do so in the "Number Seven" and "No Exit" articles as well, and try to use less exuberant language. 
:::I don't see the need. And when you consider that Moore wanted to disabuse fans of the notion so as not to spoil their experience of the finale...  -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 00:11, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
:::In fact, now that I think about it, reading Warning: do not read unless you want to be spoiled about Daniel, Kara, and his role in events would probably have the opposite effect, which would be bad. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:24, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
::::It is still their choice as I see it. I had to tell them it was about Kara, Daniel and the Cylon God the spoiler was about so those concerned about it could '''CHOOSE''' to either look or not look. It could had been "Yes, Daniel was Kara's father and he is the puppet master guiding the Rebel Cylons and the last of Humanity to peace". If they are tempted then that is part of their '''CHOICE''' isn't it? That is the thing. My way gave them an '''OPTION''', yours didn't, that is why yes, I am very passionate about this. They could had read it if they wanted to '''OR NOT''' Your way they '''HAD''' to read it. However maybe the language was to dire, but it was a big spoiler given people's investment in it, so I thought to give greater emphasis to it. Anyway given the subject matter and how it was circulating on the net and how important it was I just wanted to give people the option of reading it or not, that's all.  It is a moot point now with the series essentially over (except "The Plan") , but I still don't see anything wrong with that. And yes if there were vast internet speculation that the Cylon God is a pigeon and KNEW it was completely wrong then yes I would had given the option of reading or not reading that the Cylon God is not a pigeon even if I had information saying that it clearly wasn't. And I plan to have the same policy with really important spoilers with "Caprica". Their choice.  [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 20:40, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
:::::For your consideration: 1) Ron Moore clarified in his podcast that Daniel was just an interesting backstory item and had no relation to Kara or the subsequent events, just the establishment of a Cain-and-Abel aspect to Cavil, which qualifies as an "official statement", 2) point 1 thus makes this item a "falsehood" and should not be included the article, and 3) drawing this connection in the absence of supporting facts or statements becomes fanwanky speculation. This could be included as a note in the article if it is framed as a factual statement, such as "Many viewers quickly drew a connection between Daniel and Kara Thrace, but this was emphatically denied by Ron Moore."-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 08:00, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

==Title==
''Islanded in a Stream of Stars'' [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/09/battlestar-galactica-cruise-book.html according to producer Mark Verheiden].

No idea if this is supposed to be 'Islanded' or 'Island' or 'Landed' or 'I Landed'. Definitely a weird title.--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 19:37, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

:Ah, the title comes from a poem by Henry Beston :-) That explains that then.--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 12:18, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

== Jupiter and Callisto ==

I believe that Boomer and Hera just jumped next to Callisto with Jupiter in the background at 15 minutes.
[[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 03:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

:It is just a common Gas Giant. Real life planet search for the past 13 years for extra-Solar System worlds have revealed that the galaxy is full of Gas Giants. It is finding th Earth type planets that is hard so far with present technology. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 07:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

::I disagree.  Jupiter has distinctive cloud-bands.  These are like finger-prints.  Neither Ragnar nor the planet where the Rebel Basestar after the first battle of the Cylon Civil War limped looked anything like planets in our Solar System. Also, the moon in the foreground looked just like Callisto  Granted Callisto is much less distinct than Jupiter but the 2 of them together add weight to the argument. It seems that the fleet is still near Sol.  Boomer, on her way back to the 1s, 4s, and 5s with Hera did not just travel near Sol, nor just through the Solar System, but near Jupiter. [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 08:29, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

:::I don't believe that this is Jupiter for two reasons: (1) Jupiter has relatively low-contrasting, pastel-colored cloud bands, while this planet has high-contrasting, dark red, orange and yellow cloud bands. (2) The star is WAY too big and bright to be Sol. Sol as seen from the vicinity of Jupiter appears like a very bright star similar to how Jupiter and Venus appear in the night sky from Earth—brighter than everything besides the moon, but still just a small dot in the sky. This planet's star appears larger than Sol appears from Earth. So either this planet is MUCH closer to its star than Jupiter is to Sol, or this star is MUCH larger than Sol is. But either way, its not Jupiter. [[User:Strotter|Strotter]] 02:08, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

::::It's official: In RDM's podcast for this episode he says that the Gas Giant seen when Boomer jumps in is '''''not''''' Jupiter. (time indext 14':10") [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 06:23, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

== Old-style Cylon-Raiders ==

The facility whither boomer took Hera has both old-style and new-style Cylon-Raiders.

[[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 08:02, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

: Here are some screenshots: [http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7364/vlcsnap487018.png] [http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8940/vlcsnap488285.png] [[User:DJ Doena|DJ Doena]] 21:06, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

== Are we not dividing  the episode summaries in to acts? Bit late to change? ==

For about the past two seasons the summaries were divided into Teaser, Act I, Act 2, Act 3 and Act 4 are we switching up again, because if we are switching up again it will make it inconsistent with all the episodes over the past two seasons. I also don't like it because it comes in the last three episodes. Why change now? [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 06:34, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
:You're absolutely right, it should be act-by-act. I've added a cleanup tag to that section and will try to get to it personally. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 13:51, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

== Starbucks photo ==

The article states ""Starbuck puts a photo of herself on the memorial wall of the dead. "". Can anyone recall from (previous episodes when she returned from the dead) whether she previously tore it down? maybe she did not put it up, but was just momentarily holding it. [[User:Xlynx|xlynx]] 07:43, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

== Baltar's test ==
IMO the analysis section should mention that baltar's tests did not prove that the corpse is the original Kara. All the tests really prove are that "Sometimes a Great Notion Kara" is made of dead tissue genetically identical to "original Kara" (we've known that "Crossroads Kara" matched "original Kara" since [[He That Believeth In Me]]), and that neither "Crossroads Kara" nor "SaGN Kara" is a significant seven type Cylon (we still don't know if Baltar's tests work on final five type cylons). From a narrative perspective, it would be anticlimactic if the corpse on Earth turned out to be a hoax, however the possibility has not yet been ruled out by aired episodes. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 08:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

== Projection of Hera? ==

Do we know for certain that the opening shots are Hera projecting?  The intercut of her running down the opera house hallway suggests to me that we are seeing Caprica Six/Roslin/Athena vision of her.--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 22:30, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
*I tend to agree, there is no defined link between Hera projecting and the scene in the war-room. It's speculation to suggest that it is anything more than just a story-telling device, especially since we don't know the significance of projection in the overall story. --[[User:Unfalln|Unfalln]] 08:09, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
**To Hylas: Yes it was Hera projecting the CIC with the welder's embers. That is why you saw Hera playing with the tactical miniatures of ''Galactica'' etc. It was to establish that she could as she demonstrated to Boomer later on. The significance of [[Projection]] is that Cylons have very powerful imaginations, nothing more. You are confusing Projection with Visions. To Unfaln: You are confusing projection with [[visions]] like Hylas is. What you saw with younger Hera running in the opera house was a vision shared by Roslin, Athena and Caprica Six but ''not'' Hera. Visions are prophetic and they have no control over it. Projections are like internal video games or TV. You can turn them on or off anytime and have no baring on the future except maybe your plans for it, like the house Boomer and Tyrol wanted to build on [[Picon]] and there wishes and dreams. Hera was projecting where she wanted to play. It is most likely a projection of her mother that she remembered when they shared it. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 01:37, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
***I understand the difference between projection and the visions.  I'm asking I'm asking what ''evidence'' there is to characterize the opening shot as "This is Hera in her projection" as opposed to some other interpretation.  We do see Hera entering Boomer's projection later in the episode, but we also see the Opera house visions have returned.  
***We see Hera playing with the ship models, then a quick shot of her running down the opera house hallway, then a shot of her with the models again, which fades to an external shot of Galactica.  There is no context to let us know exactly how to interpret the image.  For the article, I think we should avoid labelling it as one or the other, and just describe what is shown.  It could be her projecting, it could be a vision, it could be deliberately ambiguous, it could be a purely symbolic image.--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 05:56, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
****It is based on what we saw of projection before, like when Caprica Six projected a forest, but the specific evidence came later in the episode in which Boomer asked Hera if she could project and she said yes. I believe we were supposed to go "Oh, that was Hera projecting in the opening scene playing with the models in the empty CIC and pretty sparks, just like Tyrol projected the empty house on Picon after Boomer betrayed him." That is how it was told to us that it was her projection in the beginning of the episode. Now I also believe that scene of her running intercut with the projection is supposed to tell us that she shares the vision with her mother, Roslin, and Caprica Six; at least the part of her running.  As for the segueing of the model Galactica into the Real one in space '''that''' was for artistic merit but her playing with the models was her vision just like with Tyrol. Hopefully RDM will mention this in his podcast for the episode. Also I will also stick my neck out and say her projection may be prophetic as well (something unique to Hera only) and say the Galactica will ram the Cylon space station homeworld based on Hera ramming the Basestar with the Galactica model. Actually more than Ram but enter one of the ports and blow up inside the Colony [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 17:30, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

== The "Fleet Quorum" Does Not Exist  ==

In the article it refers to "the newly elected Fleet Quorum", but in the episode the captioning simply says "Fleet Captains' Meeting." Is this really a safe bet to assume that the two are one-in-the-same? Isn't it possible - neigh, likely - that the fleet captains have been meeting on an ad hoc basis for the last few years to discuss various day-to-day, operational matters and that this is just another one of those meetings --- not, in fact, a newly constituted, constitutional lawmaking body to replace the dead Quorum? In point of fact, I offer: 

1 - Not likely this is an elected body: captioning indicates all present are ship captains and the attire (merchant marine uniforms) worn by almost all of those present seem to affirm that idea. The scene we're seeing is almost certainly not of any type of elected assembly. While young Adama had made some passing reference previously to abolishing the Quorum in favor of a legislative body more representative of the fleet reality, it seems unlikely - what with all the frequent whining about democracy he and Roslin do - the form that would take would be an assembly composed of ships captains which, by its nature, would have to be unelected. 

2. Doyle Franks is present - and really chatty - but had previously said she has no ambition for political office, suggesting this is an apolitical, administrative body, such as an ... oh, I don't know ... fleet captains meeting! 

3. A component body of the colonial government would be likely to meet on Colonial One, but this "ships captains meeting" is happening on the Battlestar Galactica (note that young Adama says "THIS battlestar" when he tells everyone not to "remove one bolt"); that would be like the US Congress convening at Edwards Air Force Base while the Capitol was perfectly usable. But, a meeting of ships captains to handle logistics like jump coordinates, inter-ship shuttle schedules, etc., would probably happen on the BSG. 

4. The fact that No. 6 is there is meaningless ... If this is a meeting of the fleet captains she could simply be there as the "captain" of the Cylon basestar and her appearance at this meeting could be entirely unrelated to her previous request for a seat on the Quorum. She said Adama had promised her a seat on "this council" but that's rather meaningless -- when she'd previously made that request in the last episode Adama and Roslin had just shrugged vaguely. Her presence here now is not necessarily a fulfillment of that line of thought; Adama might likely have the power to appoint whomever he likes to an administrative consultative committee of ship captains and her presence here is totally unrelated to her request to serve on the Quorum. [[User:Onequestion|Onequestion]] 11:41, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

:I disagree, the "Quorum of Ships' Captains" most certainly exists. Lee's mentioned it several times by name, after Roslin specifically tasked him with creating a new legislative body. While the captains may have been meeting separately for a long time, and it makes sense, there's no onscreen evidence of it that I'm aware of. While the captains may be unelected, they are still direct representation for those people onboard their ships. It may not be democracy as we know it, but it could be worse. Regarding Franks, well, she probably doesn't have any political aspirations, but when the government is wiped out, and you're already in a position of high responsibility such as a ship captain, and you're asked to become the representative for the people onboard your ship, what do you say? No? [[Number Six]] being there is far from meaningless; upon her ''election'' by her Cylon peers, Lee congratulates Sonja and says he is looking forward to seeing her at the next meeting of the "Quorum of Ships' Captains". QED? I think it's more accurate to say that there is no "Colonial government" anymore; only "Fleet government". [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 13:35, 9 March 2009 (UTC)
::In what episodes was the phrase "Quorum of Ship's Captains" used? I don't ever recall hearing it. I'm not saying it wasn't mentioned, but I really honestly can't recall a single instance of that phrase being used. [[User:Onequestion|Onequestion]] 08:15, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
:::In the teaser for [[Someone to Watch Over Me]], Lee congratulates Sonja on her election and says he is looking forward to seeing her at the next meeting of the "Quorum of Ships' Captains". [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 13:46, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
::::Exactly and they don't meet on Colonial One anymore in part I suspect because it was the scene of a horrendous massacre. The President didn't use Colonial One anymore before her collapse. Also it was a symbolic break with the past not to use Colonial One and yes political aspirations or no being a ship's captain makes you a defacto representative of that ship. It is a unique mixture of civilian and paramilitary rule since the ship captains aren't elected by their passengers and can't be. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 17:38, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

== Extended version? ==

How should we break down the extended version?  Treat it as a separate entity?  I'm not sure if it has just new material - it seems like some of it is out of order as well.
@@ Line 12: / Line 12: @@
 ::::It is still their choice as I see it. I had to tell them it was about Kara, Daniel and the Cylon God the spoiler was about so those concerned about it could '''CHOOSE''' to either look or not look. It could had been "Yes, Daniel was Kara's father and he is the puppet master guiding the Rebel Cylons and the last of Humanity to peace". If they are tempted then that is part of their '''CHOICE''' isn't it? That is the thing. My way gave them an '''OPTION''', yours didn't, that is why yes, I am very passionate about this. They could had read it if they wanted to '''OR NOT''' Your way they '''HAD''' to read it. However maybe the language was to dire, but it was a big spoiler given people's investment in it, so I thought to give greater emphasis to it. Anyway given the subject matter and how it was circulating on the net and how important it was I just wanted to give people the option of reading it or not, that's all.  It is a moot point now with the series essentially over (except "The Plan") , but I still don't see anything wrong with that. And yes if there were vast internet speculation that the Cylon God is a pigeon and KNEW it was completely wrong then yes I would had given the option of reading or not reading that the Cylon God is not a pigeon even if I had information saying that it clearly wasn't. And I plan to have the same policy with really important spoilers with "Caprica". Their choice.  [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 20:40, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
 :::::For your consideration: 1) Ron Moore clarified in his podcast that Daniel was just an interesting backstory item and had no relation to Kara or the subsequent events, just the establishment of a Cain-and-Abel aspect to Cavil, which qualifies as an "official statement", 2) point 1 thus makes this item a "falsehood" and should not be included the article, and 3) drawing this connection in the absence of supporting facts or statements becomes fanwanky speculation. This could be included as a note in the article if it is framed as a factual statement, such as "Many viewers quickly drew a connection between Daniel and Kara Thrace, but this was emphatically denied by Ron Moore."-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 08:00, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
-Late addition to the party, but for the record, I think that Ron Moore was full of crap.  As far as I'm concerned, Daniel is Kara's father.  It's all bloody useless otherwise. [[User:Louiebb|Louiebb]] 02:30, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
-: There's no way to put this other than straight up: You're wrong. Daniel is not Kara's father. Daniel was merely created to answer the question of who Number Seven was, when it was established that the Sharons were Number 8. Believe what you will erroneously, but that's all there is—and ever was—to it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 03:19, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
 ==Title==
@@ Line 83: / Line 81: @@
 == Extended version? ==
-How should we break down the extended version?  Treat it as a separate entity?  I'm not sure if it has just new material - it seems like some of it is out of order as well. {{unsigned|JakiChan}}
+How should we break down the extended version?  Treat it as a separate entity?  I'm not sure if it has just new material - it seems like some of it is out of order as well.
-: Having not seen the extended version myself, I will defer to knowledge of what we've done in the past. With "extended versions," we typically do two separate articles (see: [[Unfinished Business]] and [[Unfinished Business (Extended Version)]]). In my view, this makes for easier reading. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 13:20, 22 September 2009 (UTC)