Editing Talk:Humanoid Cylon speculation/Reboot/Archive 1

{{deletion discussion}}

== Reboot Thoughts ==

A good idea; since much of what we know of the Seven really may not apply. It's like the start all over again (complete with annoying delay between miniseries cliffhanger and first season). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:27, 9 April 2007 (CDT)


I think this page is a good idea but can't we assume some people ARE exempt from being cylons? Helo and Cally probably aren't cylons because we've been told cylons can't breed with other cylons (granted that might not hold between two final fivers or one final fiver and one significant seven). Lee has a childhood that not only he remembers but also remembered by his father (granted Lee could always turn out to be half-cylon). --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 15 April 2007
: What we have is RDM telling us that Nicholas and Hera are cylon-human hybrids, which does indeed tell us that Helo and Cally are humans.   The "Cylons can't breed with other Cylons" however can't be confirmed for the F5 as you note.  We don't know the F5 did not have childhoods (Tyrol certainly feels he did, he even claims his childhood is well documented when Tigh accuses him of being a Cylon).   In addition, since RDM only picked the 4 Cylons and wrote their backstories during season 3, we even have to discount some of his podcast and interview quotes from S1 and S2 about this thoughts on Cylon nature then -- he has now done much more development on it and I am sure has changed his mind of a few minor things and may even retcon some.   Exclusion should be soley based on things learned about the F5 in season 3.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 13:25, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
::I'd tend to agree with this. RDM's MO is more extemporaneous, and it sounded like (especially from the podcast of Crossroads, II) the final four weren't selected until season 3, and so there'd be no (intended) clues until that had been determined. It sounds like he refuses to be bound to the rules we tried to impose on him for the final five... I don't know what he'll constrain himself to for the last one. Except that [[Boxey (RDM)]] is probably a bit old now to do a reprise... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 18:14, 15 April 2007 (CDT)

I'm working my way through the series again, almost through Season three (I'm a few episodes short in the middle), so I'm not sure if this has already been addressed, but didn't the colonel say "Oh my god, Ellen." as he was in the Gym with the other three? As I was watching that, I thought that this implied that she was the final Cylon, and the colonel was bothered because he was responsible for her death... and if I remember correctly, she was assisting the Cylons on New Caprica. Just a thought. --[[User:Teegtahn|Teegtahn]] 21:25, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

:Didn't get that at all.   Tigh and Anders are listing a variety of events from their life that no longer make sense.  Tigh ends his list with "Ellen, my gods, what about ellen?" almost in tears.  Remember that Tigh's whole theme for the episode, and indeed for the whole season, has been remorse over killing Ellen.  Now he learns he killed her for being a Cylon collaborator, and he turns out to be a Cylon.  Is it hard to understand how this would be hard to bear?  It's not anger he says this with, but anguish.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 22:53, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
::I think you are right Brad, at leasts thats how I felt about the scene. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 02:53, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
::I had considered that, but, to the same argument I could argue that the statement is implying that Ellen was executed on the basis of being a Cylon collaborator, when she herself was a Cylon along with Tigh. My basis for this is belief is Cylons seem to be attracted to eachother when they're not aware they're cylons (Reference: Tyrol & Sharon). I'm rolling through the third season again on my PVR, so I may have to reconsider my position after I've seen this all-in-a-row. But once again, this is just a thought. --[[User:Teegtahn|Teegtahn]] 17:42, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
::No, in the frak podcast RDM says these 4 Cylons know nothing else, less than the audience, other than that a switch has gone off so they are sure they are Cylons.  So they don't know who the 5th Cylon was, Ellen or otherwise.  Play back this scene.  Tigh's been moping about Ellen's death all season, and especially in this episode.  Everything they say is, as far as I can tell said in the context of, "Why 40 years in the service when I'm a Cylon"  "Why the resistance when I'm a Cylon etc."  Ellen is the cap.   If he were realizing Ellen were a Cylon -- and RDM's statement seems to confirm he's not -- the would be reacting with joy that she's probably still alive and downloaded, not anguish at the tragic irony that he killed her for being a Cylon collaborator.   Hogan's a good enough actor that to me he is screaming this.   Anyway, I don't want to get into a speculation war since he doesn't spell it out in precise words, but he has not become aware Ellen is Cylon (indeed he's shocked to learn the other 3 are too) so he's not crying out Ellen's name in anguish because he realized she is a Cylon.   The 4 have realized one thing -- that they are Cylons, and have been from the start.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:32, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
::My apologies, I had not heard the podcast. Thanks for helping me clear it up -- It's a shame though, for a split second I thought I had it. --[[User:Teegtahn|Teegtahn]] 19:42, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

== No Replacements? ==

Does that even still hold? The Final Five are a whole different kettle of fish, and Moore seems to have reevaluated his conception of who can be a Cylon now. Statements he made near the beginning of the show's run may not hold anymore. Personally, I'm not sure that the no replacement rule still applies. But I might be biased, because I think the reveal of Lee would be amazing (although I don't want the gender ratio to get any more frakked up). Anyway, personally, the only people I'm willing to remove from suspicion are Helo and Cally. Moore said he doesn't want Adama and Roslin to be Cylons either, and that's pretty good evidence they won't be, but even there I don't see it set in stone. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:03, 22 April 2007 (CDT)
: If RDM ever changes his mind later on, he can, but what we should focus on is what we know. We know that RDM said that Roslin is not a Cylon, and that, through process of elminiaton, Helo and Cally aren't Cylons either. We should not get caught up in what RDM could and couldn't do later on. To modify a saying of Bill Adama: We should go with what we know, until something better comes along. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 13:58, 22 April 2007 (CDT)

== Deletion discussion ==

A user was expressing confusion over the content of this article, and after reading it, I agree. The article suggests two characters, both dead, one mentioned-only and using data from a show that does not exist. The logic is specious at best, and unsourced, in my opinion.

The original article for this still holds a greater hold on sourced data than this. To bring up [[Joseph Adama]] is fanwanking. To bring up [[Helena Cain]] is also fanwanking (''[[Razor]]'' doesn't count; it's one large flashback). Unless there's a big reason to keep this article, I recommend that we strengthen the original article and delete this one. The original article has been revised accordingly and has sufficiently sourced and logical arguments than this one. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:09, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

:{{vd}} Agreed. There is no logical reason for using these two characters. By that reasoning, basically ''anyone'' could be a Cylon. Exterminate. The original is better by know, because nearly all of the specious speculation has been removed. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:14, 30 June 2007 (CDT)
:{{vd}} per Serenity. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 02:14, 1 July 2007 (CDT)
:{{vd}} Let's nuke the bastard. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 05:07, 1 July 2007 (CDT)