Editing Talk:Fireball/Archive 1

[[User:Ltcrashdown|Ltcrashdown]] wrote:
:''Upon review of the footage, it looks like Fireball simply had severe damage to his Viper preventing him from ejecting.  Since it's not his Viper that blows up (it's another pilot Deadbolt), then it's possible Fireball survived.''

As per my comments in [[Talk:Stepchild]], I think the on-screen evidence that he died is very strong, and since there is no evidence to the contrary, this note is not warranted. However, the mention that it is Deadbolt's viper which is destroyed, not Fireball's, is potentially interesting, and I would like to keep this note on the talk page to revisit after re-watching the relevant scene. This has potential significance for both [[Galactica (RDM)]]'s Viper tally and [[List of Pilots]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:33, 23 December 2005 (EST)






Well, I wrote this because I have been taking notes on the Battlestar galactica DVDS with the subtitles on.

There are several pilots present when the viper explodes after Fireball says he can't eject.

Here's a transcript based on the subtitles from "Hand of God".  I am typing exactly what is said in as well as who is saying it (when noted).  Parenthesis are used in subtitles to identify the speaker when the face of the speaker cannot be seen:

Hot Dog: Fireball, your six

(Fireball takes a hit and sparks fly inside his cockpit)

Fireball: I'm hit! I'm hit! Can't eject!

(the scene cuts to Starbuck and Adam looking worried)

(Fireball in cockpit): It's stuck

(Buzzer, another pilot): Deadbolt, SPinner. Two bandits closing your right side.

(Spinner): No joy!

(The scene next shows a Viper spinning out of control and taking a hit, then a close-up of the pilot with sparks flying just before the Viper explodes)

The subtitles next list (Spinner screaming) and the screams are cut off after the Viper explodes.

(Hot Dog): Galactica, Hot Dog.  Heavily engaged. Mission outcome doubtful.

Balta: This sounds fracking awful.

Starbuck: They're getting cut to pieces out there.

(Hot Dog yelling)

(Buzzer): Get out of there! Move!

(The scene ends and cuts to commercial break.  Since no new speaker is given for the first line of the scene, I'm going to assume it's still the unknown Buzzer)

(Buzzer): Deadbolt, right vertical, now!

(Deadbolt): Dammit, take a shot.  Get him off me.

After that Adama gives the evacuation order.


So it looks like I was wrong.  The dead Viper wasn't Deadbolt, but actually another pilot called Spinner.  I apologize for that mistake.  However, this does still give credence to Fireball still being alive but not likely.  [[User:Ltcrashdown|Ltcrashdown]] December 23, 2005

:Your analysis is good and your point is well-made, but my reply is still that since, unlike Perry, we have no reason to suspect that Fireball ''might'' be alive, noting the fact that his death took place off-screen, after receiving crippling fire is not very useful. The clear implication is that his was one of the Vipers destroyed in the attack, which is bolstered by the fact that it is Hot Dog who takes command of the strike force during the "raiders bugging out" sequence.

:Your analysis does raise another problem, which we may as well talk about here. According to SciFi.com's "CAG Roster", four pilots (three of them nuggets) were killed in the Battle for the Tylium Asteroid. Until now, we have been assuming that those were Perry, Stepchild, Fireball and an unnamed nugget in Strike Two whose Viper is shown exploding in an effects shot.

:Upon further examination, what appears to be the case is this:

:# Strike one (Fireball, Deadbolt, Spinner, Buzzer, Hot Dog, et al.) engage Cylon forces.
:# Fireball's viper is disabled (and possibly destroyed).
:# Spinner's viper is destroyed.
:# Strike two (Apollo, Chuckles, Stepchild, Kat, 8 others) deploy from container ship.
:# Six fighters from Strike two, lead by Apollo, are engaged by Anti-Aircraft batteries.
:# One unidentified Viper is destroyed by a missile (FX shot)
:# Chuckles is killed (and his Viper presumably crashes)
:# Stepchild is engulfed in sparks (and presumably killed).
:# Strike one appears on screen, with at least seven active Vipers.

:So, based on this, there are two possible conclusions:
:1.) SciFi.com's information is valid. Four vipers were destroyed, as were three nuggets. One (and only one) of Stepchild, Spinner or the unidentified Strike Two viper was therefore not a nugget. Fireball (and his Viper) survived the sortie, despite not having been heard from since.
:2.) SciFi.com's information is not valid, and five pilots and vipers were killed in the operation, not four. This is bolstered by:
:*The fact that at the time of the beginning of The Hand of God, there were apparently 14 nuggets, not the 8 noted by SciFi (see [[List of Pilots]]).
:*The clear implication that Fireball was killed off-screen.
:*The implausibility of Hot Dog's severely damaged viper glimpsed in "You Can't Go Home Again" being successfully repaired.
:I believe the evidence is stronger for the second conclusion, and that SciFi's CAG Roster should not be considered as a valid source. However, we might make a (concise) note of this dilemma on the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] page. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:43, 23 December 2005 (EST)



Thank you for the prompt reply.  I'm glad that I have someone to discuss these details with.
:I agree that certain source have been complicating this discussion.  Until we have more facts, I'm willing to let this go until we have something else to determine which of the above two conclusions is correct.  I agree that your two proposals are the best alternatives to this discussion.  [[User:Ltcrashdown|Ltcrashdown]] December 23, 2005
::Follow up to the above posts, would it be okay if I went ahead and added Spinner to the list of dead pilots from [[Hand of God]]?  I could also add [[Buzzer]] to the list of unknown callsigns.--[[Ltcrashdown]] 23:49, 25 December 2005 (EST)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-Ltcrashdown wrote:
+[[User:Ltcrashdown|Ltcrashdown]] wrote:
 :''Upon review of the footage, it looks like Fireball simply had severe damage to his Viper preventing him from ejecting.  Since it's not his Viper that blows up (it's another pilot Deadbolt), then it's possible Fireball survived.''
-As per my comments in [[Talk:Stepchild]], I think the on-screen evidence that he died is very strong, and since there is no evidence to the contrary, this note is not warranted. However, the mention that it is Deadbolt's viper which is destroyed, not Fireball's, is potentially interesting, and I would like to keep this note on the talk page to revisit after re-watching the relevant scene. This has potential significance for both [[Galactica (RDM)]]'s Viper tally and [[List of Pilots]]. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 00:33, 23 December 2005 (EST)
+As per my comments in [[Talk:Stepchild]], I think the on-screen evidence that he died is very strong, and since there is no evidence to the contrary, this note is not warranted. However, the mention that it is Deadbolt's viper which is destroyed, not Fireball's, is potentially interesting, and I would like to keep this note on the talk page to revisit after re-watching the relevant scene. This has potential significance for both [[Galactica (RDM)]]'s Viper tally and [[List of Pilots]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:33, 23 December 2005 (EST)
@@ Line 52: / Line 52: @@
-So it looks like I was wrong.  The dead Viper wasn't Deadbolt, but actually another pilot called Spinner.  I apologize for that mistake.  However, this does still give credence to Fireball still being alive but not likely.  Ltcrashdown December 23, 2005
+So it looks like I was wrong.  The dead Viper wasn't Deadbolt, but actually another pilot called Spinner.  I apologize for that mistake.  However, this does still give credence to Fireball still being alive but not likely.  [[User:Ltcrashdown|Ltcrashdown]] December 23, 2005
 :Your analysis is good and your point is well-made, but my reply is still that since, unlike Perry, we have no reason to suspect that Fireball ''might'' be alive, noting the fact that his death took place off-screen, after receiving crippling fire is not very useful. The clear implication is that his was one of the Vipers destroyed in the attack, which is bolstered by the fact that it is Hot Dog who takes command of the strike force during the "raiders bugging out" sequence.
@@ Line 76: / Line 76: @@
 :*The clear implication that Fireball was killed off-screen.
 :*The implausibility of Hot Dog's severely damaged viper glimpsed in "You Can't Go Home Again" being successfully repaired.
-:I believe the evidence is stronger for the second conclusion, and that SciFi's CAG Roster should not be considered as a valid source. However, we might make a (concise) note of this dilemma on the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] page. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 20:43, 23 December 2005 (EST)
+:I believe the evidence is stronger for the second conclusion, and that SciFi's CAG Roster should not be considered as a valid source. However, we might make a (concise) note of this dilemma on the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] page. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:43, 23 December 2005 (EST)
-::Thank you for the prompt reply.  I'm glad that I have someone to discuss these details with.
-::I agree that certain source have been complicating this discussion.  Until we have more facts, I'm willing to let this go until we have something else to determine which of the above two conclusions is correct.  I agree that your two proposals are the best alternatives to this discussion.  ltcrashdown December 23, 2005
-::Follow up to the above posts, would it be okay if I went ahead and added [[Spinner]] to the list of dead pilots from [[Hand of God]]?  I could also add [[Buzzer]] to the list of unknown callsigns.--Ltcrashdown 23:49, 25 December 2005 (EST)
+Thank you for the prompt reply.  I'm glad that I have someone to discuss these details with.
+:I agree that certain source have been complicating this discussion.  Until we have more facts, I'm willing to let this go until we have something else to determine which of the above two conclusions is correct.  I agree that your two proposals are the best alternatives to this discussion.  [[User:Ltcrashdown|Ltcrashdown]] December 23, 2005
-:::By all means. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 00:53, 26 December 2005 (EST)
+::Follow up to the above posts, would it be okay if I went ahead and added Spinner to the list of dead pilots from [[Hand of God]]?  I could also add [[Buzzer]] to the list of unknown callsigns.--[[Ltcrashdown]] 23:49, 25 December 2005 (EST)
-Alas poor Fireball.  You truly are dead.  I shed a tear for you, who we hardly knew. --Ltcrashdown 23:09, 3 February 2006 (EST)