Editing Talk:Escape Velocity/Archive 1

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== The Lord of Kobol reference ==

During the service by Chief Tyrol he utters the like "...and the Lords of Kobol, as many and as varied as mortal men..." 

Could this be taken literally, and suggest some new connection between the Colonials and the Lords of Kobol? It feels like the sort of cryptic clue the writes would drop in.

12 Colonies, 12 Cylon models, and perhaps 12 Gods? {{unsigned|DarthS}}
:The bajillionth time, nobody has ever said there are only 12 Lords of Kobol. There are 12 Olympians in greek mythology, but that doesn't even include some of the most prominent deities, such as Poseidon or Hades. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 21:20, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::Poseidon is one of them, but not Hades, who belongs to a group of deities and figures associated with the underworld. But the Greeks did not just worship the Olympians. The Colonials don't have to either, in regards to the Lords of Kobol. But yeah, there is a general consensus of who the Olympians are, but that changed with time and region. Different cities and regions sometimes worshiped different gods -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 21:31, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

== Analysis re. Adama's book reading ==

I noticed there was a comment on the Analysis section about Adama reciting the passage, even though he said they were to the part he hadn't read before. Actually, he states that they are ''getting'' to the part he hasn't passed before, so they hadn't actually reached it yet, so if anything, these would be the parts he would remember the most, since it would be where he always stops after.

If anything, it seems like some double-symbolism could be read in to the fact that he would always stop reading after that particular passage...

(I don't know how to edit the page itself, or even if it's appropriate to, hence why I wanted to comment here instead).

[[User:MathewBurrack|MathewBurrack]] 19:21, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

:Yeah, that's how I saw it too. He doesn't say that he hasn't read that particular bit yet. As for editing the page, just click on "edit" at the top, next to "discussion" which you presumably used to get here. And don't be afraid of making changes, as they can be easily undone if something goes wrong. Though it's a good idea to discuss potentially contentious issues and big changes first, this a relatively minor thing. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 21:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

*I edited that section to reflect the writer's analysis, as given in her DVD commentary for a similar scene in "[[The Hub]]". Unfortunately, only the first part of that podcast is transcribed, but you can listen to it at 35:30 here - [http://media.syfy.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/411/bsg_ep411_FULL.mp3]. (her reference to "Episode 6" comes from counting "[[Razor]]" as episodes 1 and 2) -- [[User:Dogger55|Dogger55]] 18:09, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

== [[Virtual Six]] ==
Before posting analysis or question, did Virtual Six finally exhibited an actual physical manifestation when standing up Baltar in front of the guard? In the past, her effects could be explained away. Thoughts, opinions?-- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:46, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:It seems the most extreme so far, but we've seen apparently physical interaction between her and Baltar before. She has pushed him into mirrors or walls for example. Though his contortions are hard to pull of alone, it might not be impossible. They had to film it somehow and I guess Callis did it alone. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:55, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::His feet actually came off the ground at one point while his body was still limp. I think he was being pulled up by wires. -- [[User:David cgc|David cgc]] 05:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Huh?  They never showed his feet, so there's no way of telling that.  I think there would have been gasps of astonishment from everyone if he was actually levitating instead of just standing and walking funny.  It's certainly possible to move like that by yourself, I've tried.  Really, I don't see what the big deal about this is.  This isn't any different from Six shoving him into a wall or even grabbing his tie.  If you need an idea for how an "imaginary friend" could do this kind of thing, check out the parking garage fight in Fight Club, where Tyler drags the narrator around, throws him down stairs, etc. [[User:INH|INH]] 13:45, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Uncredited actors ==
At least two actors with speaking parts are uncredited. One is the leader of Sons of Eris (although he does look a bit similar to the [[Unnamed Galactica and Pegasus crew (RDM)#Marine guard|Marine guard]] to me - can anyone confirm or deny?) and "Mr. Officious" (nicknamed so by Baltar), the guy who investigates the scene of the assault. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 22:19, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
: You mean the [[Sons of Ares]] right? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 22:59, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::Sure, too much [[wikipedia:Principia Discordia|Principia Discordia]]. :) Anyway, the question still stands. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 23:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Mr. Officious looks like the leader of the sons of ares to me. That my two cents--[[User:KDP3|KDP3]] 03:20, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
: Wouldn't be surprising... The Sons of Ares did know military protocols, and knew they had two minutes to grab Baltar before there would be some kind of military response. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 03:31, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:: Well, [[User:Mmmm... toasty]] has proven that the Ares leader and "Mr. Officious" are two different people. Plus the actors look different. So, I guess not. (Of course, this doesn't mean that Mr. Officious was of the Sons of Ares, or merely hated Baltar's guts.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:09, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

== "Offshoot Religions" comment ==

During the Quorum meeting, one of the delegates mentions that the laws against Baltar's group assembling could also be applied to other minority religions, noting especially that Baltar's teachings seemed similar to that of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraic_Mysteries "Mithras Followers"], a real-world religion which was contemporaneous with, and a rival of, early christianity. The existence of another Colonial religion taken from our history and apparently not centered on the Lords of Kobol or the Cylon God may be another clue about how the Colonials fit in with Earth. -- [[User:David cgc|David cgc]] 05:19, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Delany Stadium ==

In the scene where Adama sits with Tyrol at [[Joe's bar]], there seems to be a poster for "Delan(e)y Stadium" behind Adama. Anyone else noticed that?--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 18:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
:My...erm copy isn't of high enough quality to really read it, but now that you point it out. Maybe a reference to [[Dana Delany]] (though it seems to be written as "Delaney")? -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
::I can't really make out what the poster says on Hulu, but I'm guessing it has to do with [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]].--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 19:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

== Summary ==

People can work on adding summaries of Acts 1 through 4 to the page... :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 05:14, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

== Name of Petty Officer ==

Can anyone confirm the name of the Petty Officer that Adama orders Tyrol to report to after their very public argument? I think it's "Basim", but I'm not to sure. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:07, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
:Yep, Basim. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:12, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

== Cleanup ==

We need to look at this and other season 4 episode guides. Their analysis sections seem anything but neutrally worded and have too much speculative information. My feeling is that analysis sections develop over time as successive episodes complete the interpretation or information. There's some [[BW:FANW|fanwank]] in this that I'd like to revise when time permits. I know these S4 eps are juicy views, but it looks a little overboard. Also, indented subanalyses are just as bad as intended questions that make the article self-argumentative. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:33, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
: Agreed. I was going to go through them yesterday and rework the analysis sections, but I don't have the time to do that right now. Anyone who wants to take a crack at it is welcome to do so! :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:40, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
::As an aforementioned guilty party, I agree completely. I think that it would help all to go back and read Season One's guides. There are times that one must leave out "good stuff" for the sake of concision. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:46, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
:::I think Seasons 2 and Season 3 are a good middle ground aside from some exceptions. The Season 1 guides are a bit too sparse in some areas. 
:::And indention does have its uses to elaborate on something without necessarily being self-argumentative. I've already removed the additional bullet levels (that were indeed argumentative) and brought it back to 2 which is appropriate here IMO -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:52, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
I believe this page cleaned up very well. All that's really missing is some official commentary... With that in mind, I'd like to see that cleanup message removed. Aye? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 16:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
:I don't see anything wrong with this either. There isn't any outrageous speculation. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:07, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

== Just as you are ==

Hi! Did anyone else recognize the "just as you are" quote of Dr.Baltar from Bridget Jones' Diary? {{unsigned|Colorwind}}
: Never watched Bridget Jones' Diary, but the "just as you are" quote is a belief that contrasts most mainstay religions, where its subjects are inferior and flawed creatures who need to be cleansed of their sins. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 20:36, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
::It is funny that James Callis's character in Bridget Jones's Diary says that exact same line. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 11:42, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

== Lily-Miniseries Connection? ==

Is it just me, or does 'Lily', the older woman that Baltar converses with at the begginning of this episode, seem to be the woman that Baltar encounters during the attacks at Helo and Boomer's Raptor? I could just be looking to far into it, but that would be an interesting connection to the miniseries. {{unsigned|Pentagonal Deception}}
:Never mind, I re-watched the scene from the miniseries, and it doesn't appear to be her, strike my last. {{unsigned|Pentagonal Deception}}

== Development of "One God" theology in Baltar's sermon ==

(from memory from an hour ago; still having goosebumps)

Baltar's sermon where he says "each of you is perfect, and each of you is loved by God" immediately after saying "yes, you have your faults, but you are also perfect..."

I dare anybody who believes in and has seriously studied the theology of an Abrahamic religion not to get goosebumps going up and down while listening to Baltar preach. He's not quite to the explicit separation of the soul and the body, or the deen and the life in the dunia in Islamic terms, but he's so close he's rubbing his nose in it.

We're just getting to see Season 4 here in Second World Singapore, and more than any other stretch of BG episodes I can remember, this is building up and building up so much that I can't imagine any fans not being close to breakdown after another couple of episodes.

There were so many lines crossed in this episode that can't ever be undone again. But I think I do agree with Roslin: by backing down over the limits on assembly, they have ceded a ''huge'' amount of control to Baltar (and/or anybody else who can whip up a group of people); religious true believers are impervious to secular logic or compromise. She should know; one of the things that the writers and the actress are doing very, very skilfully is to gradually, over seasons, tear down what respect and sympathy people may once have been willing to give her because she's an autocratic bitch who justifies herself by her own personal spin on Colonial-standard theology. She's not mad at Baltar because he's an apostate; she's mad at him because he can appeal to people's faith, and ''lead'' by faith, much more effectively than she can.

And yes, I have read the episode synopses, here and elsewhere, and "knowing" what's going to happen doesn't reduce the gut-wrenching from ''seeing'' it for the first time. This is one of the most visual TV series I've ever seen in my life; this season more than before.

Scale of 0 to 10: I give it an "Oh, my God..."
[[User:Jdickey|Jdickey]] 16:14, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

:I found it refreshing and interesting to hear your thoughts. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:01, 23 February 2010 (UTC)