Editing Talk:Ellen Tigh/Archive 1

==Name==
Unless you intend to change all of [[Saul Tigh|the Colonel]]'s single-name references to "Saul", Ellen Tigh gets to be "Tigh" when we refer to her by a single name, just like every other character on the show. Note that [[Laura Roslin]] is usually Just referred to as "Roslin".

Since the article is about Ellen Tigh in particular, there should be no room for ambiguity. Lee Adama's article should also follow this principle - it's clearly out of line to refer to "women and children" on a first name basis when trying to disambiguate them from their husbands and parents. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 11:13, 13 Aug 2005 (EDT)

::While I understand the need for consistency, I'm not sure if a first name used for disambiguation is necessarily discriminatory.  Military culture often puts people on a "last name basis", even in informal settings.  When multiple of a same last name are present, there is usually some effort made to use a different name for the second person.  First names, nicknames, or other substitutes are often found ("Big Spiegel or little Spiegel").

::Perusing a sampling of wikipedia articles, I found that most main articles do use the last name in one name references.  However, I found that wives often end up with the first name (or a Mrs.) 
::Examples:
::[[Wikipedia:Eleanor Roosevelt|Eleanor Roosevelt]] 
::[[Wikipedia:Martha Washington|Martha Washington]]

::The way the characters in the show refer to each other seem to be consistent with this.  I can't recall Ellen Tigh ever being referred to as simply "Tigh," nor Lee Adama being referred to only as "Adama."  While both of them theoretically have just as much right to those names, an admittedly arbitrary social convention substitutes some other name.  I'm not spoiling for a fight or anything, just scanned by the article and was getting confused whenever I saw "Tigh."  I guess the instances where this is actually going to be an issue will be relatively small.  (So maybe I shoud just deal with it.) [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:12, 29 November 2005 (EST)

:::Yeah, you should just deal with it, SV. :) Their argument for the use of Ellen's last name in her own page was sufficiently convincing, so I made the changes throughout the article except where sentence structure would have made it too confusing. I won't be as "nice" in other articles, since the Colonel, not Ellen, is a major character and most use of "Tigh" would presume him, not her. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:27, 30 November 2005 (EST)

::::An archive of the discussion is available [[Battlestar_Wiki_talk:Standards_and_Conventions/Archive1#Single-name_Address|here]]. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 23:33, 30 November 2005 (EST)

:::::While this seems to have been resolved and addressed on Tigh's page, Lee Adama's page seems to switch back and forth between Lee and Adama.  In the "Reassignment" section he is referred to as "Adama", but in most other instances he is Lee (or Lee Adama).  I think it reads fine the way it is (particularly in this "Adama" case), but I was curious if the principle should also be applied to that page as well (as suggested by the first post of this discussion).  [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:53, 1 December 2005 (EST)

::::::It should. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 10:46, 1 December 2005 (EST)

== Lady Macbeth ==

The first thing I thought of after watching the episodes in which Ellen gets her husband drunk and pushes him into command was the parallel to Lady Macbeth. I broke out my copy of the ''Riverside Shakespeare'' and did some casual research to help prove the point and I have added it to the end of the character discussion as my first contribution to the wiki. I hope folks find it interesting and helpful. -- JT --[[User:Jasontondro|Jasontondro]] 23:33, 22 December 2005 (EST)

:RDM mentions this connection explicitly in his podcast for "Resistance". I'll try to dig up the relevant quote. Thank you for your insightful contribution, although I fear your middle paragraph meanders a bit. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 00:35, 23 December 2005 (EST)

::Yay! A bullseye on the first shot. Happy to help. --[[User:Jasontondro|Jasontondro]] 01:00, 23 December 2005 (EST)

::I like mentioning it, though I fear that it's length relative to the article may verge on becoming a "tale full of sound and fury, signifiying nothing", etc.  Haha, just wanted to get a quote in; if no one has a problem with the length I don't mind either.  --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:09, 25 December 2005 (EST)

== Succession Box ==

I think it would be neat to create a "Spouse of the Executive Officer of the Battlestar Galactica" box. Does anyone agree?
:Not really, no, as she'd be a one-woman entry (unless she gets killed off and COL Tigh marries someone else).--<font color="#4b0082">[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]</font> <font color="#2f4f4f">''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''</font> 00:08, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
: Ditto. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 00:19, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
:: She wouldn't be a one-woman entry because she is succeeded by Sharon Agathon. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:51, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
::: Such a succession box serves no purpose. It's not like she's the First Lady of the United States, she's merely a wife of an executive officer. Being the wife of an XO isn't anything, either from a military or government standpoint. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 17:55, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
: I commented it on this? :-P --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 00:24, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
::Yes, you did.  See?  ^_^--<font color="#4b0082">[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]</font> <font color="#2f4f4f">''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''</font> 00:27, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
::It was an act of precognition. By the way, chamalla is good with tea. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 01:30, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

== Season 3 Concision ==

As with many central and supporting characters, I have concised this article. I removed content that should be in the summary, questions and analysis of the episodes, as well as extraneous content that was not directly discussing the character.

Although the secondary sections after "Currently" don't appear in other bios, Tigh's character is such an enigma that these special sections are quite appropriate for the article, and were not concised.  --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:44, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

== Debate About Death ==

Now I agree that she is dead, but we been having a debate over here at my college about if she is truly dead or just knocked unconsuous. The agurement comes frome when Saul Tigh comes off the raptor. He says something that he left behind some, but so far I can see nothing that she's dead. I agree with the current updated status of the character template, but it should be left that we could see her again.... --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 21:48, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
: Just from the emotional resonance from the scene where she's put to death, it is clear that she was killed by poison. Also, Saul wouldn't have willingly left her behind had she been rendered merely unconscious. -- 00:06, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
: I have to disagree. Putting "emotional resonance" aside for a moment we see that every time that Saul has to talk about what happened he is evasive. Additionally, while he would understand that leaving her behind would in all probability consign her to death, it's not the same thing as poisoning her. But it would be very "emotionally resonant". In "Hero" the audio fades out just as Saul starts to actually talk about what happened, another hamfisted maneuver which leaves us unable to hear Saul say "I poisoned her", leaving us to assume it, possibly in error. --[[User:Frieze|Frieze]] 12:41, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:: Actually, in "[[Collaborators]]", Saul points out that he killed his own wife during [[The Circle]]'s deliberations. So, yes, she's dead. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 14:53, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:::  OK, this isn't a comic book or typical sci-fi where somebody isn't dead unless they've been resurrected 7 times.  This is REAL drama where when somebody dies, they're dead.  And dead is dead.  Welcome to the real world!   The real story is in how Saul will have to handle killing his own wife for the rest of his life.  --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 15:10, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Cylonicity questions and arguments ==

I removed that section because it mixed arguments with questions, which is something we don't do in episode articles. What we could do is restore the part about her manipulation of Tigh into an own analysis section. Moreover, it linked to the Cylon speculation article where her section was removed, so so there is no reference for the RDM comment anymore.

But in any case, with Saul Tigh revealed to be a Cylon, Ellen being one as well is extremely unlikely. While the speculation was mildly interesting before (though IMHO she is more interesting as a human than a Cylon), I don't see much point in it now. Except maybe a note like "While Ellen Tigh was a likely candidate for a Cylon among some viewers, the events of "Crossroads, Part II" make that unlikely." --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:48, 31 August 2007 (CDT)

== 2,000 Years Ago ==

IMO the "everything's in place" line heavily implied that resurrection was not normal for the Thirteenth Tribe Cylons. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:18, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
:I strongly agree. As almost every character was losing their faith in "Sometimes," I believe fans have forgotten what it was that got everyone to that miserable little world...the [[Lords of Kobol (RDM)|gods]]. Or just [[God (RDM)|"God"]], depending on who made you. Ellen's comment need not be genuine in that it was actually the last thing she said last lifetime. But with all the Cylon resurrection, no one's talking much about the ''spiritual'' kind of resurrection...the type I'm sure returned Starbuck. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 03:32, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

==BCE==

Please, take note of [[Talk:Timeline_(RDM)#BCE_occurences|this issue]]. [[User:Str1977|Str1977]] 09:47, 31 March 2009 (UTC)