Editing Talk:EMP/Archive 1

If memory serves, wasn't the device that Apollo used to create the EMP not an actual EMP device, but an old "FTL coil" or something like that?[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 10:40, 11 Jun 2005 (EDT)

: He referred to them as "electric pulse generators from the Galactica." How they got on the Colonial One is beyond me. He said he used them to manipulate the hyperspace engines to create the illusion of a nuke. He also mentioned that he used the tactic back in war college, so I'm guessing it's EMP. -- [[User:yenguyen|YeNguyen]] 12:05, 17 Jul 2005 (EST)

::It is likely these EMP generators were placed on the ship as part of the offloading of various unneeded equipment from the Galactica Museum-to-be. Being a government vessel, the ship would have sufficient clearance to carry the stuff back home for later return to a Colonial miliary depot. Apollo didn't manupulate anything with the generators, he simply activated them. The EMP created disabled any electronic impulses in the missiles, making  them glide by harmlessly, and sending off a pulse that would normally come from these weapons, so the Cylons were convinced that the missiles left their mark without a visual confirmtion. It also had a temporary side-effect on Colonial One's occupants, since human brains also work on electric impulses. It is likely that these items were actually used as early weapons in certain Cylon battle scenarios. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:46, 18 Jul 2005 (EDT)


Some thoughts on EMPs in BSG:
Space based nuclear detonations can't be compared with atmospheric detonations. EMPs only really exist in atmospheres where the interaction of high intensity gamma rays with matter creates a huge magnetic resonance field.
So nukes in space wouldn't disable spacecraft electronics. You might get some Compton Scattering from the matter in the nuke itself, but there is no medium to create a huge EM field.
But I think it makes sense that nukes could blind Dradis sensors by overloading them with radiation (as seen/heard in the Miniseries and Pegasus-Extended).

However EMPs have no effect on the human central nervous system! That Apollo (and the rest of the crew too) went unconscious is either an error in writing or it's an effect of something else in the pulse generation. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:38, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

:''Damn'', Serenity. :) Either you have knowledge that dwarfs any of our fan-boy experience, or that was a lot of [[technobabble]]. Could you point us to a Wikipedia reference to help us understand why EMP doesn't travel in space? Atmosphere or no atmosphere, I thought that this energy just ''radiated''. I reread your first sentence and I think I understand, but elaboration would be appreciated (and, may I say, illumininating). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:40, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

::First off a nuke produces gamma rays. Those are high energy photons. In an atmosphere those photons produce electrons through Compton scattering. The electrons then additionally ionsize the atmosphere and produce even more secondary electrons. The electrons then interact with the Earth's magnetic field. Spiraling around a field line, they'll create a short EM burst, because they are negatively charged and are moving. According to the Lorentz force that will create a magnetic field perpendicular to the movement direction.
::Just look up "EMP" and "Compton scattering" on Wikipedia, though the physical details are bit lacking :)
::Back to BSG. The effects of nukes aren't depicted wrong. They don't disable starship electronics, since there is no magnetic field, but the radiation can still affect Dradis and wireless (because they rely in some form of radiation as well). That's maybe not technically an '''EM'''P, but it could be a somewhat colloquial expression for a similar effect (Cain refered to the EMP of nukes in Pegasus-Extended). Some people do that even today.
::Moreover, the radiation itself could have an effect on the electronics, but I'd expect it to be shielded and radiation hardened against cosmic radiation anyways. Plus you'd want shielding for the crew. Fully blocking gamma radiation would require extremly massive armor though.
::What I removed is the part about EMPs (from those generators in the Miniseries) possibly overloading organic Cylons or even humans. Doesn't happen since there isn't a metal antenna to catch the EM field. Raiders though might be affected through their metallic hull. As said, that the people in the Miniseries fell unconscious is an error. I just hope noone had pacemakers ;) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:31, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

:::Nice information, thanks. So we may have to either explain off the unconsciousness by fanwankery based on your data, or acknowledge that there is more to the Colonies' use of EMP than what we know. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:05, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 :::Nice information, thanks. So we may have to either explain off the unconsciousness by fanwankery based on your data, or acknowledge that there is more to the Colonies' use of EMP than what we know. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:05, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
-::::Microwave radiation maybe? Though I'd think the line between losing conscious and being burned is very thin.<br>
-::::Another thought: Apollo wanted to fool the Cylons into thinking their nuke went off and it worked. I think the writers really incorrectly assumed the nuke would create an EMP and the science advisor didn't catch it. But maybe it all relied on fooling the Dradis and it can't distinguish from being blinded by an EM field or purely gamma-rays. But there is a difference between nuclear EMPs and conventional e-bombs. NEMPs only last 1-4 microseconds at most, while other EMP sources create a pulse of several hundred microseconds. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:55, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
-:::::Sweet. Microwave? Doesn't wash with me. Sonic? Can a sudden low or high pitch sound cause unconsciousness? What other phenomena could cause knockouts like that? This sounds like something that should be added to the [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]] article (although its getting long for an article). I've conventionized and tidied up your additions. Very insightful stuff! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:39, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
-About your edit of my writing:
-If you don't mind I'll edit that again (slightly), because you changed the meaning. Cain did NOT mean the pulse generator discussed at the start. She specifically talked about an EMP created by nuclear detonations. Probably still the writers not realizing that space detonations don't create an EMP. But as said it can be explained as an effect of the nuke's radiation.  Just hard gamma and maybe beta radiation (which is why I generally said "blinded by radiation"). In LDYB the writers again went with "nebula emitts EM radiation that messes up Dradis", so the Pegasus thing could be an error as well. Though technically gamma radiations falls within the EM spectrum, so we're ok.
-However it now it sounds like she's talking about the pulse generators from the Miniseries, because you said "the technology". And what's this "real-world Earth standards" thing? The BSG univserse still has the same physical laws and standards as ours. My interpretation (or excuse maybe) is that, some people lump all the radiation effects of space nukes under "EMP" -[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:51, 20 September 2006 (CDT)