Editing Talk:Cylon transponder/Archive 1

== First appearance? ==

Did the transponder first appear in the mini series, then was not seen again until Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I? Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something in the series! --[[User:Fxer|Fxer]] 16:44, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:The transponder technically makes its first appearance under the [[DRADIS]] console in the [[miniseries]], where Baltar's virtual Six points it out to him, which he later points out to command. It was likely installed by the first copy of [[Aaron Doral]]. A second transponder was recovered with a second [[Leoben Conoy]] model in "[[Flesh and Bone]]." Kara Thrace has one installed on her Raider that she absconds with to Caprica on her Arrow of Apollo adventure. A second transponder is aboard Boomer's Raptor when she flies into the Kobol basestar to destroy it. Number Six had one in her purse as later shown in the miniseries as well, but this one is presumed destroyed or elsewhere on Caprica. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:01, 25 February 2006 (EST)

== Three transponders ==

How did ''Galactica'' get three of the transponders? One is from the DRADIS-console in the Miniseries and another from the Leoben Conoy-copy in "Flesh and Bones" but where did they get the third one? -- [[User:Astfgl|Astfgl]] 06:13, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

:I was curious, too. Since there's visual evidence now, we may have to assume that one was found elsewhere in the Fleet, in addition to the one found with Leoben and the DRADIS console. Note the differing appearance of the third one. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:50, 7 July 2006 (CDT)
::Posibilities:  there's one on every Cylon Raider, including the captured Raider; when Tigh ordered a sweep of the ship for other things that just "showed up" in the past week, they found another transponder.  --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 12:59, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

::It would be illogical for Raiders to have one, as this function was likely integrated into the biomechanical pilot. The Colonials thought it best to carry one (thus the need for Thrace to use one) since they knew what the normal transponder looked like, but likely couldn't find its equivalent on the captured Raider. The "showed up" theory holds more weight; remember that the ''Olympic Carrier'' was being tracked; another transponder (and agent) was likely aboard. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:03, 7 July 2006 (CDT)

== Obvious technical fallacies ==

*How can it be said that possession of a transponder classifies the carrier as a "friendly" if Cylons were seeking to destroy Galactica while she had an apparently functional transponder on board? Clearly one (or both) notions must be discarded. Before one argues that transponders must come in "friendly" and "foe" varieties, how come the Cylons didn't react adversely to the transponder sneaked aboard a Basestar by [[Sharon Valerii]] with a nuclear warhead? Since it was obtained aboard a target of Cylon attacks (the fleet), it would have to be a "foe" transponder, and thus would likely attract some kind of counter-attack. Even elementary [[IFF]] systems would certainly realise that a "foe" transponder does not belong inside the hangar of a Basestar!-- [[User:Qubex|Qubex]] 02:57, 6 February 2007 (CST)

*How is it possible that a transponder does not emit any signal until it is in the range of other units? If it emits no signals, how does it ever realise it is in the range of other units? This flies in the face of common sense and as such violates the basic principle of [[Naturalistic science fiction]]. -- [[User:Qubex|Qubex]] 02:53, 6 February 2007 (CST)

:The second point could by explained by the transponder waiting to receive a signal, before sending one of its own. That's really very simple to do. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:24, 6 February 2007 (CST)

::The first point involves the target's size, which is available through DRADIS. A Raptor is no threat to a basestar, and so if it were installed, the basestar would assume (as it did in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]] that a Cylon was on it. Same was true from Starbuck's Raider in the same episode. Rather than making up new tech, using a transponder on ''Galactica'' is a cheap and easy way to track the ship with existing tech. Six used it on Caprica before the attacks, apparently to allow other agents to quickly find each other on the busy planet, or for installation elsewhere for a precision hit (say, the defense mainframe). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:56, 6 February 2007 (CST)
@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 *How is it possible that a transponder does not emit any signal until it is in the range of other units? If it emits no signals, how does it ever realise it is in the range of other units? This flies in the face of common sense and as such violates the basic principle of [[Naturalistic science fiction]]. -- [[User:Qubex|Qubex]] 02:53, 6 February 2007 (CST)
-:Where does it say that they don't emit any signals until contacted? While one could assume that it's best if they stayed dormant or risk detection, there are techniques to make that harder. Gaeta says that the send bursts of data. A short enough burst transmission to start a longer synchronisation/communication cycle can be hard to detect --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:24, 6 February 2007 (CST)
+:The second point could by explained by the transponder waiting to receive a signal, before sending one of its own. That's really very simple to do. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:24, 6 February 2007 (CST)
-:The first point involves the target's size, which is available through DRADIS. A Raptor is no threat to a basestar, and so if it were installed, the basestar would assume (as it did in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]] that a Cylon was on it. Same was true from Starbuck's Raider in the same episode. Rather than making up new tech, using a transponder on ''Galactica'' is a cheap and easy way to track the ship with existing tech. Six used it on Caprica before the attacks, apparently to allow other agents to quickly find each other on the busy planet, or for installation elsewhere for a precision hit (say, the defense mainframe). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:56, 6 February 2007 (CST)
+::The first point involves the target's size, which is available through DRADIS. A Raptor is no threat to a basestar, and so if it were installed, the basestar would assume (as it did in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]] that a Cylon was on it. Same was true from Starbuck's Raider in the same episode. Rather than making up new tech, using a transponder on ''Galactica'' is a cheap and easy way to track the ship with existing tech. Six used it on Caprica before the attacks, apparently to allow other agents to quickly find each other on the busy planet, or for installation elsewhere for a precision hit (say, the defense mainframe). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:56, 6 February 2007 (CST)
-:Has anyone considered that maybe these things could just switch modes? You'd have the hello-I'm-a-friend mode, the please-rescue-me mode, the please-nuke-me mode, etc. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 13:30, 6 February 2007 (CST)
-== Cleanup / Concision ==
-I've done some cleanup on the article, but it can probably stand to be revised as the text tends to jump between ideas around. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 22:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)