Editing Talk:Cylon Centurion Model 0005/Archive 1

You know, I really think it's spelled "centurion." [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 06:06, 15 Apr 2005 (EDT)
:Yup - it looks like rather a lot of articles have had the spelling "corrected" recently! -- [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel]] 08:08, 15 Apr 2005 (EDT)

:: (raises eyebrow)  Interesting... For anyone interested, it is spelled Centurion.   [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Centurion]  Although, in the screencapture of the piece of paper that the [[Armistice Officer]] was reading from the mini-series, it is spelled "centurian"... Can someone please note that the spelling on that piece of paper is also incorrect -- as I noted, the paper also has the word "[[yahren]]" on it. Obviously, the Colonials in the new BSG don't use that term for year.  (Then again, I suppose that the paper wasn't supposed to have been scrutinized by fans in the first place; they didn't account for the "pause" feature on DVD players and the screencapture ability of computer DVD playback software.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:11, 15 Apr 2005 (EDT)

::: I'd be interested in seeing this freeze frame, if you have the image.  I watched the miniseries on TV.... [[User:JohnReese|John Reese]]

:::: Here's [http://battlestarwiki.joebeaudoin.net/index.php?title=Image:Cylon_centurion_model_0005.jpg the image].  It's also linked on this article's page... -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:43, 18 Apr 2005 (EDT)


hi all.  I changed them all to reflect the on-screen spelling.  though Centurion is our historical spelling, it is not unexpected that the spelling could have changed to Centurian for the series.  think yahren, volton, frack/frak, chamalla, etc.  also, the old Mattel toys list the spelling with an "a" [http://www.bugeyedmonster.com/toys/battlestar/figures.shtml]. those toys and the Model 0005 sheet i took as canonical, but i admit it is possible the spelling changed between TOS and RDM.  because of finances i do not own TOS on DVD; does the insert or extra materials have a definitive spelling?  do the sub-titles reveal the correct spelling?  is it possible it was "a" for TOS/1980 series, and "o" for the Hatch, video game, and RDM projects?  if there is overwhelming canonical evidence (e.g., sub-titles, officially licensed products) regarding the true spelling(s), i will gladly change them back. -- [[User:Ryq|ryq]]

: As I own the TOS DVDs, I'll take a look into them to see what the spelling is.  From what I remember, it ''is'' usually "centurion" as in the centurions from Rome. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:34, 26 Apr 2005 (EDT)

:: With the exception of the verbatim quote of the Armistice Officer's datasheet, I am (reluctantly ;)) moving the names back to "Centurion" or "Centurion (TOS)". I also moved this discussion page.  Sorry for the delay. -- [[User:Ryq|ryq]] 10:52, 4 Jul 2005 (EDT)

== Unemployed ==

Some of these fellows have been seen panhandling on the street after their replacement by modern Centurions, it's quite sad: [http://www.kropserkel.com/Images/kropcentonset.jpg].


==Question on Sentience==

I am in full agreement with Farago on this.  Just because the ''current'' upgraded Centrions are not ''fully'' sentient (free will, etc.), doesn't mean that the Original Centurions were not.  Else how would they rebel? --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:40, 10 February 2006 (EST) ''Take a chance!'', ''S:AAB''

*I'd like to point out that I think the Season Premiere basically confirmed that the older ones were sentient. From how Adama said things, it seems the colonials originally did make their Cylons/Centurions sentient, which was how they were able to rebel. The Cylons then proceeded to making non-sentient Centurions so they could prevent something like what they did from happening. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:29, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

::Or at least, the original Centurions were designed with the ability to shoot humans (probably as weapons of war), whereas the humanoid Cylons programmed them so that they would never shoot a humanoid Cylon. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:38, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

==Still around==
:Centurion 99 adds:
:''it is implied by [[Number Six]] that some might still be around''
Haven't we been over this about half a dozen times? I thought consensus on this was that Six was most likely referring to the newer "bullethead" models. The 0005 hasn't been since since the miniseries, and only then in cardboard cutout form. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:17, 23 March 2006 (CST)

:In the event that I'm misremembering, and we haven't actually discussed this before, let me briefly lay out the basis for my position.
:*The current centurion still fits the appelation "walking chrome toasters", and they have been referred to explicitly by other characters on several occasions ("Let's go toaster shopping," etc.)
:*The leap between the 0005 and the current model is so miniscule when compared to the leap between the centurions and the humanoid cylons that Six's comment could easily be taken to refer to the current model, even if it was a considerably more advanced variety than the 0005, the last one the colonials had truly encountered.
:*We haven't seen any of the 0005s since their very brief appearance in the miniseries, which appeared to be a friendly call-back to the original series. In my opinion, it's highly unlikely that we'll ever seen the 0005s again, therefore it seems unlikely that we'll ever have any positive evidence that they're still in use. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 23 March 2006 (CST)

== TOS breakout ==
Merv has suggested (at [[Talk:Cylon Models#Re: Centurion Model 0005]]) breaking out the TOS(/1980) Centurion continuity information into a separate article . Such an effort would require:
# Creating the new TOS Centurion article. (Centurion (TOS)?)
# Creating any necessary disambiguation pages/lines.
# Changing any links/redirects that point to this article and refer to TOS/1980 continuity to the TOS Centurion article.
I'm not going to do this right away, but if anybody has any thoughts about how (or whether) we should do this any input/collaboration/help is appreciated. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:25, 21 July 2006 (CDT)

== Spelling ==
I found another piece of "Centurian" lore. There's a readout on the advanced A-B fighter that's about to crash (in the 1980 episode "The Night the Cylons Landed") that predicts that the "Centurian" models have a 3% survival chance on impact. (At which point the Centurions (Centurians?) all look at each other nervously.) I don't have much chance of getting a screencapture of it (unfortunately Tivo2Go has a glitch that cuts out transfers if there's major pixellation at any point in the show), but I thought I'd mention it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:44, 22 November 2006 (CST)
:Now that somebody has noted the "Centurian" spelling, should we add a note about the fact that "Centurian" is how it was spelled when displayed in 1980? I'm not aware of many canonical instances of that model being written out (visible on the screen), so that may be the only canonical spelling (even if we choose to use the more "sensible" spelling). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:04, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:: Definitely note it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 15:35, 19 December 2006 (CST)

==Downloading==

Did the surviving 0005 models download (per say) their sentience and memories into Cylon Agent models once they discovered the concept of biological Cylons? Since Cylons can't give birth, the Agents had to come from '''somewhere'''. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 18:24, 29 November 2006 (CST)
: I think it's safe to say that there were many other Cylon models as well, not just the 0005. I believe it's these other models that may have been responsible for creating the Cylon society, but that's just pure belief on my part. Hopefully ''Caprica'' will help fill in the blanks,   particularly in light of the fact that the Centurions seemed to be foot soldiers and the like during the Cylon Wars, as depicted in paintings and the like. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 15:40, 19 December 2006 (CST)

== [[Antebellum Centurion]] ==

Should this be mentioned on the article or ignored due to its separate continuity? [[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 18:55, 5 May 2007 (CDT)
:It doesn't belong into the main article, but linking to it in the Notes section might be alright --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:00, 5 May 2007 (CDT)

== The Guardians ==

It's not at all clear that it is the Guardians that the First Hybrid refers to as "my children" (and in fact the Season 4 Sneak Peak suggests a different connection, and they predate him) or that they were all destroyed in the battle.  Their base star, which they were heading back to, was nuked, but if they had yet re-boarded it, there was no sign of that.  Based on their ability to "come out of nowhere" they may have FTL jump.  So I would suggest revising these speculations.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 16:47, 3 December 2007 (CST)
:I agree that it's not all certain that all of them were destroyed (an assertion which has been bugging me), but anything else is too speculative. We shouldn't put up these typical whacky forum theories here. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:50, 3 December 2007 (CST)
::OK, a nuke went off in what would seem to be their only basestar, killing their god. OK, we can't be absolutely certain that they didn't have other bases or basestars, but it is likely we'll not hear from them again. Certainly all who engaged Pegasus were as good as dead. I've changed the wording to be strong without being completely definitive. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:02, 3 December 2007 (CST)
::Sorry, where does it show the Guardians worshipping the first hybrid?  They are never shown together, and Boomer just says they guard him.  Who the "my children" are is one of the big questions.  He calls Kendra "my child" which confuses it even more.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:28, 3 December 2007 (CST)
:Oh yeah, in the Season 4 Teaser, it is curious that the scene where Lee tells his dad that "they came out of nowhere" is repeated.  May be a metaphor for surprises to come or a hint that the sudden appearance of the Guardians may be repeated.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:47, 3 December 2007 (CST)
:Good point about them not worshipping the Hybrid, maybe he's talking about the more squishy Cylons. I've made a subtle change to reflect that. Anyways, I think the section is clear about what we know now. Personally, I belive we should split this section into a new article. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 20:05, 3 December 2007 (CST)
@@ Line 31: / Line 31: @@
 :Centurion 99 adds:
 :''it is implied by [[Number Six]] that some might still be around''
-Haven't we been over this about half a dozen times? I thought consensus on this was that Six was most likely referring to the newer "bullethead" models. The 0005 hasn't been since since the miniseries, and only then in cardboard cutout form. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 14:17, 23 March 2006 (CST)
+Haven't we been over this about half a dozen times? I thought consensus on this was that Six was most likely referring to the newer "bullethead" models. The 0005 hasn't been since since the miniseries, and only then in cardboard cutout form. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:17, 23 March 2006 (CST)
 :In the event that I'm misremembering, and we haven't actually discussed this before, let me briefly lay out the basis for my position.
 :*The current centurion still fits the appelation "walking chrome toasters", and they have been referred to explicitly by other characters on several occasions ("Let's go toaster shopping," etc.)
 :*The leap between the 0005 and the current model is so miniscule when compared to the leap between the centurions and the humanoid cylons that Six's comment could easily be taken to refer to the current model, even if it was a considerably more advanced variety than the 0005, the last one the colonials had truly encountered.
-:*We haven't seen any of the 0005s since their very brief appearance in the miniseries, which appeared to be a friendly call-back to the original series. In my opinion, it's highly unlikely that we'll ever seen the 0005s again, therefore it seems unlikely that we'll ever have any positive evidence that they're still in use. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 14:36, 23 March 2006 (CST)
+:*We haven't seen any of the 0005s since their very brief appearance in the miniseries, which appeared to be a friendly call-back to the original series. In my opinion, it's highly unlikely that we'll ever seen the 0005s again, therefore it seems unlikely that we'll ever have any positive evidence that they're still in use. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 23 March 2006 (CST)
 == TOS breakout ==
@@ Line 65: / Line 65: @@
 :I agree that it's not all certain that all of them were destroyed (an assertion which has been bugging me), but anything else is too speculative. We shouldn't put up these typical whacky forum theories here. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:50, 3 December 2007 (CST)
 ::OK, a nuke went off in what would seem to be their only basestar, killing their god. OK, we can't be absolutely certain that they didn't have other bases or basestars, but it is likely we'll not hear from them again. Certainly all who engaged Pegasus were as good as dead. I've changed the wording to be strong without being completely definitive. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:02, 3 December 2007 (CST)
-:::We don't really know either way. I have no idea why people assume that all Centurions are on that one basestar. The guardians didn't split from the Cylons when that basestar left the ice planet. That came later. They might have more resources, but the correct way would be to say that we just don't know. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:43, 4 December 2007 (CST)
 ::Sorry, where does it show the Guardians worshipping the first hybrid?  They are never shown together, and Boomer just says they guard him.  Who the "my children" are is one of the big questions.  He calls Kendra "my child" which confuses it even more.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:28, 3 December 2007 (CST)
-:::Yes, it's a valid question of course. And it's asked on the "Razor" page. That doesn't mean we need to write several paragraphs of weird theories on what it might mean thus nudging people into a certain direction. Also, we don't need to see them worshiping. They might consider him a god, without praying to him all the time. But for some reason people prefer the most outlandish theories. *sigh* And this is supposed to be a series that's believable and somewhat realistic. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:25, 4 December 2007 (CST)
-::::Sorry, which is the outlandish theory?  Anyway, what we know is that he says "his children believe I am a god" and when asked if that's true he says a bunch of things he has no business knowing.  We actually don't know anything about the Guardians wrt the religion thing, or the motives or agenda of the Guardians, other than guarding the FH and doing more experiments.   Anyway, as RDM said, the whole purpose of Razor is to give us this scene with the First Hybrid and Kendra, so it's not just a crazy old hybrid.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 03:01, 4 December 2007 (CST)
 :Oh yeah, in the Season 4 Teaser, it is curious that the scene where Lee tells his dad that "they came out of nowhere" is repeated.  May be a metaphor for surprises to come or a hint that the sudden appearance of the Guardians may be repeated.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 19:47, 3 December 2007 (CST)
 :Good point about them not worshipping the Hybrid, maybe he's talking about the more squishy Cylons. I've made a subtle change to reflect that. Anyways, I think the section is clear about what we know now. Personally, I belive we should split this section into a new article. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 20:05, 3 December 2007 (CST)
-== Anatomy of a Cylon ==
-Lots of stuff to update this article with at:
-* http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2008/05/12/bsg-vfx-anatomy-of-a-cylon
-* http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/bsg-vfx-anatomy-of-a-cylon-extras/
-[[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 22:40, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
-==Retcon or later version?==
-Should we assume that the redesigned Centurions from "Razor" are what the Centurions always looked, or are the TOS Cylon replicas (more human-looking, with mechanical joints hidden in black tubes, flexible armor "skirts" and swords) from the museum and Armistice Officer's specification perhaps an earlier model, while the "Razor" ones are a later model used during the late stages of the war and by the Guardians (perhaps 0006 - only the former is ever designated as 0006)? The Razor ones look like something in the middle between the TOS Centurions and the modern ones. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 11:47, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
-: I think it should be assumed that the "Razor" old school Centurions were always the mainstay Centurions during the Cylon War. (Although, we should probably point out that Centurions may have upgraded themselves during the Cylon war, like they've done with the new Centurions.) There's really no way to know for sure, other than to pop a few questions over at [[BW:OC|the Official Communiques]] and hope for an answer. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 15:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
-== 0005  — mere speculation? ==
-Isn't it purely speculative that the designation "0005" applies to every war-era centurion design, as opposed to merely the model examined by the armistice officer? I propose the title "Cylon War Centurion Models". -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 21:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
-::for what it's worth, i think the name should be changed as well.  the name "model 0005" is based on the prop document from the miniseries, which misspells the word "centurion" as "centurian".  if we can disregard "centurian", i think we can also disregard "0005" as not necessarily the intention of the creators.  i think something along the lines of '''Cylon Centurion (Cylon War)''' or '''Cylon War-era Centurion''' would be more appropriate.  anyway that's my two cents. [[User:Pst001|Pst001]] 10:01, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
-The document IS canon, but we really do not know whether 0005 refers to more than just the Armistice design. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 12:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
-: For better or for worse, the document is canon. Also, the Re-imagined Series internal documentation (scripts and the like) tend to use both "centurion" and "centurian" spellings. Chalk that up to the ID10T error. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:23, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
-::"Model 0005" could be acknowledged in the first paragraph on the page, but it's likely not going to be the designation that most readers of this Wiki would automatically think of first.  Some version of "Cylon War-era Centurion" would be more familiar and natural.  If we see this model later in ''Caprica'' or in the proposed ''Blood and Chrome'', it's unlikely that characters will say "Model 0005" most of the time, anyway.  I recommend having "Model 0005" redirect to a re-titled page. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 17:31, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
-:: I'd have no problem with that, as so long as we note the canonical name. On the other hand, [[Lee Adama]] redirects to the article [[Leland Adama]] which consists of the full first name. Again we have a six of one, half dozen of the other situation. It can go either way. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:43, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
-:::any movement here? [[User:Pst001|Pst001]] 04:02, 9 December 2010 (UTC)