Editing Talk:Cylon Attack/Archive 1

== Is this article necessary? ==

The [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] article gives greater detail and clarity of what occurs. This wouldn't mean we shouldn't use "Cylon Attack" as a redirect since typing "Fall of the Twelve Colonies" is a pain. For the TOS, I recommend it be redirected to this page, but the RDM stuff can be removed, or, we direct it to the Battle of Cimtar page. To get everyone's attention, I may add a delete tag later if I haven't heard comments. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:08, 15 December 2005 (EST)

:Wow.  That IS a tangled web.  I agree that this article is pretty redundant on the RDM side (with that excellent Fall of the Twelve Colonies to fall back on).  It would be a much simpler matter if this article wasn't linked to so often.  It looks like there are a LOT more links from the RDM side that the TOS side.  So perhaps a "Cylon Attack (TOS)" could be created that contains the original TOS content of this page (Battle of Cimtar is a little barren), then once the TOS pages are pointed at the new link we could make Cylon Attack redirect to "Fall of the Twelve Colonies."  --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:54, 15 December 2005 (EST)

::I agree; this page has no real use. We should just merge the TOS content into a Battle of Cimtar article. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:31, 15 December 2005 (EST)

:::No.  "Fall of the Twelve Colonies" covers the battle part, but in terms of the overall effect this page covers that; it's just such a big event that it deserves its' own page.  It's sort of the ''de fact'' page for "Second Cylon War" which should not be an actual term.  Of course THE Cylon Attack ended, but it's still part of an ongoing effort.  That and many pages link here, and it would be a little clunky to insert the other one into everything.  I don't really think it's hurting anything and think it should stay.  --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:17, 15 December 2005 (EST)

::::It's confusing and redundant, which hurts our usability. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:27, 15 December 2005 (EST)

::::Does the "Second Cylon War" deserve it's own page?  I think what we were proposing before was just a redirect (instead of inserting the other one into everything).  However, if we separate out the "Second Cylon War" as a different page, we would have to find all the "Cylon Attack" links that meant "Second Cylon War" and not "Fall of the Twelve Colonies".  --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:01, 15 December 2005 (EST)

==Merge Attempt Made For TOS content==
I merged the info from the [[Cylon Attack#Original Series|Cylon Attack]] into the [[Battle of Cimtar (TOS)]].  I think it contains everything from the "attack" page, and really livens that page up. If that looks ok to everyone, then we could clear the TOS content off of the Cylon Attack (once I changed all the TOS links to go to Battle of Cimtar) and we'd only be dealing with the Fall of the Colonies vs Second Cylon War issue.  I started a discussion over at [[Talk:Battle of Cimtar (TOS)]] if you want to weigh in on that specific page. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:29, 15 December 2005 (EST)
@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 :Wow.  That IS a tangled web.  I agree that this article is pretty redundant on the RDM side (with that excellent Fall of the Twelve Colonies to fall back on).  It would be a much simpler matter if this article wasn't linked to so often.  It looks like there are a LOT more links from the RDM side that the TOS side.  So perhaps a "Cylon Attack (TOS)" could be created that contains the original TOS content of this page (Battle of Cimtar is a little barren), then once the TOS pages are pointed at the new link we could make Cylon Attack redirect to "Fall of the Twelve Colonies."  --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:54, 15 December 2005 (EST)
-::I agree; this page has no real use. We should just merge the TOS content into a Battle of Cimtar article. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 14:31, 15 December 2005 (EST)
+::I agree; this page has no real use. We should just merge the TOS content into a Battle of Cimtar article. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:31, 15 December 2005 (EST)
 :::No.  "Fall of the Twelve Colonies" covers the battle part, but in terms of the overall effect this page covers that; it's just such a big event that it deserves its' own page.  It's sort of the ''de fact'' page for "Second Cylon War" which should not be an actual term.  Of course THE Cylon Attack ended, but it's still part of an ongoing effort.  That and many pages link here, and it would be a little clunky to insert the other one into everything.  I don't really think it's hurting anything and think it should stay.  --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:17, 15 December 2005 (EST)
-::::It's confusing and redundant, which hurts our usability. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 15:27, 15 December 2005 (EST)
+::::It's confusing and redundant, which hurts our usability. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:27, 15 December 2005 (EST)
 ::::Does the "Second Cylon War" deserve it's own page?  I think what we were proposing before was just a redirect (instead of inserting the other one into everything).  However, if we separate out the "Second Cylon War" as a different page, we would have to find all the "Cylon Attack" links that meant "Second Cylon War" and not "Fall of the Twelve Colonies".  --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:01, 15 December 2005 (EST)
-:::::I propose this--
-::::::*[[Cylon Attack]] will redirect to [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]
-::::::*A disambig link on "Fall" for those looking for the Battle of Cimtar, the Cylon attack of TOS, which should be [[Battle of Cimtar|Cylon Attack (TOS)]].
-:::::The [[Second Cylon War]] page is even more redundant than this one, I agree. The two need not exist and should redirect to a single page. The Fall page is more dramatic, detailed, and very consise. We can keep "Cylon Attack" as good shorthand, but they should direct to an RDM or TOS page, and the RDM side does not need three pages as it stands now. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:08, 15 December 2005 (EST)
-::::::Look, it's a good "Shorthand" page and should stay.  However there doesn't need to be a "Second Cylon War" page, I already covered that with just a ("or, technically, the second Cylon War") but no one EVER calls it that.  I mean technically it IS, and for purposes of battle pages I wrote that down, but it doesn't need it's own page.  --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:34, 15 December 2005 (EST) ''Remember, remember, the Fifth of November...''
-::::::I generally agree with Spencerian's proposal. However, I think that the [[Battle of Cimtar]] article should be adequate for TOS purposes. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 19:36, 15 December 2005 (EST)
-:::::::If everyone is satisfied with [[Battle of Cimtar]], I could set about pointing all the TOS "Cylon Attack" links to it so we could remove the TOS content from this page (once I figure out if I'd be pointing to "Battle of Cimtar" or "Battle of Cimtar (TOS)"). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:59, 16 December 2005 (EST)
-Seems that we have a consensus to make this page a redirect to [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. We should add the [[Battle of Cimtar|Battle of Cimtar (TOS)]] link there as a disambig at the top, but otherwise we clean up and replace the TOS attack links with "Cimtar". I do like the picture of the battlestar hulk here, so I'll want to incorporate it into the "Fall" page (although we still use the Caprica bombing in the summary template). Any other thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:32, 19 December 2005 (EST)
-Per consensus, this page has become a redirect to the RDM [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] page. Disambig links exist on both TOS [[Battle of Cimtar]] and "Fall" pages. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:11, 28 December 2005 (EST)
-:Redirect seems to have worked perfectly.  No problems.  --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13:54, 28 December 2005 (EST)
 ==Merge Attempt Made For TOS content==
-I merged the info from the [[Cylon Attack#Original Series|Cylon Attack]] into the [[Battle of Cimtar|Battle of Cimtar (TOS)]].  I think it contains everything from the "attack" page, and really livens that page up. If that looks ok to everyone, then we could clear the TOS content off of the Cylon Attack (once I changed all the TOS links to go to Battle of Cimtar) and we'd only be dealing with the Fall of the Colonies vs Second Cylon War issue.  I started a discussion over at [[Talk:Battle of Cimtar (TOS)]] if you want to weigh in on that specific page. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:29, 15 December 2005 (EST)
+I merged the info from the [[Cylon Attack#Original Series|Cylon Attack]] into the [[Battle of Cimtar (TOS)]].  I think it contains everything from the "attack" page, and really livens that page up. If that looks ok to everyone, then we could clear the TOS content off of the Cylon Attack (once I changed all the TOS links to go to Battle of Cimtar) and we'd only be dealing with the Fall of the Colonies vs Second Cylon War issue.  I started a discussion over at [[Talk:Battle of Cimtar (TOS)]] if you want to weigh in on that specific page. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:29, 15 December 2005 (EST)
-:I have pointed all of the TOS links that pointed here (as far as I can tell), to the Battle of Cimtar. If nobody has any objections, I propose that we remove the TOS content from this page (and the TOS tag).  That way this page is 100% on the RDM side (which might simplify redirects if that ever happens).  Also, I didn't realize that there was a similar discussion of this same topic [[Talk:Fall_of_the_Twelve_Colonies|here]], a few months ago. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:28, 19 December 2005 (EST)
-::Looking good. Is there any information here which we haven't represented on [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 14:40, 19 December 2005 (EST)
-:::The first couple of sentences (40 years since the start, explicit references to humano-cylons and 6), and the second to last sentence (~50,000 survivors).  It looked like a lot when I started this response, but once I broke down what wasn't in there, it seems like information that would fit pretty well in the "Fall of the Twelve Colonies" article.  --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:00, 19 December 2005 (EST)
-::Page is now a RDM redirect. Disambig links exist on both TOS and RDM articles. We'll need to watch out for use of "Cylon Attack" in TOS pages since it may improperly redirect to RDM information. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:13, 28 December 2005 (EST)