Editing Talk:Colonial calendar/Archive 1

== Truncation ==

This article's contents are from the oversized and messy [[Timeline (RDM)]] article. A screencap of Adama's dossier would be greatly appreciated here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:30, 26 December 2006 (CST)

==Twelve Colonies Series==
:Move to "Timekeeping in the Twelve Colonies" or somesuch, and add to the Twelve Colonies series? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:13, 26 December 2006 (CST)

::It's a better title, yours, and fits better in keeping the data in a superarticles like Science and Twelve Colonies (I like them). I'll keep this as a redirect for shorthand but look into moving it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:45, 26 December 2006 (CST)

== Colonial seconds ==

You infer that there are as many Colonial seconds in a Colonial year as there are Earth seconds in an Earth year. However, you neglected to mention that Colonial seconds have been established as a little longer than Earth seconds (Miniseries, 33, Hand of God.)
--[[User:MHall|MHall]] 12:02, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
: Actually, from what I can tell, the duration of seconds is the same, if you note the time clocks in the CIC in "33" (ignoring the [[Continuity errors (RDM)#Prop and Equipment Errors|obvious gaffes]] that occur in that episode due to editing). This is also supported in "Faith" during the countdown on ''Demetrius''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> bridge, which supports the direct correlation between Earth time and Colonial time. The only thing that hasn't been nailed down is how they name their days of the week, their months, or how they note their years—there are at least two different documents that contradict each other in noting year dates. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 14:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

== Colonial, Caprican or Gregorian calendar? ==

Since the twelve colonies weren't united during the time of ''Caprica'', I think we should wait for evidence from other colonies before concluding that any dating systems observed on the planet Caprica are common to all twelve colonies (which is why I put my note about Junius at the bottom of the article). Furthermore, the use of 52-week years and Saturday really stretches credibility and poses the question whether all time references should be considered more or less faithful translations for the benefit of the viewer, along with the use of English. Also, the episode never tied Saturday to Saturn or Junius to Juno - was this confirmed anywhere or is it just informed speculation? -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 07:56, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
: As RDM said in the past, they speak English—it's not a conceit for the benefit of the viewer. No more than the dating system used, or the fact that days are 24 hours long, etc. This is nothing new in the BSG universe, as they have chickens, cats, and everything else that Earth pretty much has. Unification of the colonies has nothing to do with the calendar system. In our society, English is the language of commerce, all countries use the metric system (although it isn't standard in the USA, because we're just frakking stupid) and the way we keep track of dates on Earth is through the Gregorian system. This doesn't mean that there are other things out there (different currencies, units of measure, etc), but... for the purposes of the story, the "Colonial calendar" as depicted in this article is the Colonial standard—as are cubits in terms of money. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 22:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
::Can you point me to the source of this quote where Ron Moore states that the use of modern English must be taken literally? The problem is that modern English has a scientifically documented history of evolution, which means that it couldn't have been spoken 150,000 years ago, and the same applies to animals, clothing and other items which have a documented history of invention/evolution (unless Ron Moore intends for all of our invention to be the work of One True God, in contradiction with recorded history, which I haven't seen him state specifically - he would usually talk about ideas sifting through the collective experience or something along those lines, which means that a lot of what we see on BSG shouldn't be taken literally). 

::As far as calendars are concerned, the problem is that unlike different states on Earth, all twelve worlds would likely have different lengths of days and years, so it is reasonable to expect that they would start off with planetary calendars and later develop a common calendar (which need not be tied to the unification necessarily, but it is something to be aware of when recording Caprican dates). Also, it is highly unlikely that the common calendar would just happen to have astronomical cycles which correspond to a planet none of the Colonials had ever visited before (another intervention by One True God?). This article should certainly record any observations concerning calendar units, but it shouldn't suggest that their observed lengths must be taken literally unless we have evidence for that. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 12:06, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

== The Caprican Blog Post List ==

Evidently, ''The Caprican'' blog post list overtaking the article in sheer size... I think it is best to transplant this information in its own separate article, and reference from that new article whatever information is needed to support this article on the Colonial calendar. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 23:07, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

:I was thinking of trimming it down after further analysis since I mainly need all the dates as datapoints, in order to establish the names and order of the months, progression of the day number within a month and the maximum day number in each month. Also, I would keep some of the article titles such as those corresponding to events from the show, especially those that are dated differently onscreen. However, if you want to create a separate article, that's also an option, especially since the blog is likely to disappear forever from SyFy.com after a while, and it would be good to preserve as much as possible. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 06:25, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

:: In general, I believe it's better to have ''The Caprican'' titles relocated to its own article, for the very reasons that you have specified. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 21:01, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

== Worth noting? ==

[http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i263/xyzzy42/vlcsnap-2010-03-13-20h49m12s204.png ] Quality Jewelry from 1952?? This is from [[New Cap City]] in the episode "[[The Imperfections of Memory]]".--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 08:18, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
: It's certainly a continuity error. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 14:55, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
:: Unless, for example, YR42 stands for 2042 and it's jewelry from 90 years ago. No, nevermind, that doesn't make sense. It's been 1942 years since the exodus from Kobol. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:13, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
::: I have no objection to noting it, but we have no evidence it is the same calendar so it would be best to put it in the final section of the article.  For all we know, there could be several different eras in parallel use, which is why they are so adamant about using the seemingly redundant YR prefix/suffix in every known example instead of just '42. In addition to the literal meaning of "year", YR would also identify this specific Exodus era. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 22:06, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

==A Possible New Understanding==

I've been working pretty carefully to create an outline of the events seen in the show. There have been some road blocks, however, to fully understanding everything. [[Serge]]'s twitter has been helpful, and although a sort of redundant resource, [[The Caprican]] articles are helpful but their dating convention, I'm convinced, has far more to do with our calendar as viewers than the actual calendar of events in the show (especially evident by the [[Eros Day]] mention in February but there being no indication in the show that the card was new). 

I've also come to realize that the props have two categories: Screen Readable; Screen Seen. To me, these categories are based on the needs of the story. If the prop is to be actually within focus and read, it tends to fit a dating scheme I'll describe below. If it's not, then the dates, information, names, are literally whatever the prop department wants to put on it.

I also have a theory I'll explain briefly that the show, through it's troubled production, went through several different Calendars. What I mean by this is certain props seem to match one timeline (where the MagLev bombing was on November 26th), while the rest match another. I've also noticed some scenes are edited apart and placed in pieces in multiple episodes meant to represent separate events but were originally one sequence (thus some things can seem out of order to a keen eye)

Here is my current calendar based on the events of the show:

*We know the names of the months are from the Roman Calendar but due to our still fragmentary and unsure knowledge of this type of Calendar, I propose that the producers probably did a simple cut/paste of the names, keeping the days and such the same.

:Ianuarius (31)
:Februarius (28) 
:Martius* [Possibly first month of year] (31)
:Aprilis (30)
:Maius (31)
:Junius (30)
:Quintilis (31)
:Sextilis (31)
:September (30)
:October (31)
:November (30)
:December (31)

Below I separate the episodes into all of the "days seen." The symbol ~ indicates that it's a guess as to which day based on supporting evidence. Italicized are direct quotes, bold are from props.

PILOT (S01:E01)  
:Day 1 [Tuesday Maius 6th, YR42]: Zoe tweaks Avatar / In Trouble / Grounded
:Day 2 [Wednesday Maius 7th, YR42]: STO Bombing of Mag-Lev Train 23
:Day 3 [~Tuesday Maius 20th, YR42]: “''Two Weeks Later''” GDD announces STO involvement, Joseph Meets Daniel, Lacy finds Zoe-A in V-World
:Day 4 [Wednesday Maius 21st, YR42]: U-87 Fails Test
:Day 5 [Thursday Maius 22nd, YR42]: Durham implicates Zoe, Daniel meets Zoe-A
:Day 6 [Friday Maius 23rd, YR42]: Durham implicates Lacy, C-Bucks Game, Joseph meets Zoe
:Day 7 [Saturday Maius 24th, YR42]: Minister Chambers Threat / Stealing, Montage
:Day 8 [Monday Maius 26th, YR42]: Lacy and Clarice, Tamarah’s Heartbeat
:Day 9 [~Friday Maius 30th, YR42]: “''a couple of days to test MCP''” Code is Lost
:Day 10 [Tuesday Junius 3rd, YR42]: ‘CYLON’ Defence Demo

REBIRTH (S01:E02)
:Day 1 [Friday Junius 6th, YR42]: “''been two days''” Lacy invited to dinner/ CBuc’s Game
:Day 2 ['''Saturday Junius 7th, YR 42''']: “''month to the day''” MagLev memorial

REINS OF A WATERFALL (S01:E03)
:Day 1 [Monday Junius 9th, YR42] Amanda Quits, Daniel Threatened, Tamarah Escapes, Lacy/Keon fix Bike “''Ben Stark[e] a year ago in April''”
:Day 2 ['''Tuesday Junius 10th, YR42''']:  “''after hours Scorpia trading''” “''Book on Sarno tomorrow''” “''tonight’s game''” Willie skips school

GRAVEDANCING (S01:E04)
:Day 1 [Wednesday Junius 11th, YR42]: Holo-cafe bomb, Search Warrant, Search School, Sarno, Search House, “''solstice wish''” 

THERE IS ANOTHER SKY (S01:E05)
:Day 1 [Thursday Junius 12th, YR42]:  Willie missing school “''middle of last week''”
:Day 2 [Friday Junius 13th, YR42]: Camping Trip, Board Emergency Meeting called
:Day 3 [Saturday Junius 14th, YR42]: Board Meeting/vote , Willie’s Lie
:Day 4 [Sunday ~ Junius 15th, YR42]: Tauron Ceremony “''month old newspaper''”


KNOW THY ENEMY (S01:E06)
:[FLASH-BACK] Maius 25-29th Tauron (Theft from Vergis Corp.)
:Day 1 ['''Sunday Junius 15rd, YR42''']: “''One month later''” After Vote, Party, Joseph and Daniel talk. “''Junius 15th Exhibit Opens''”
:Day 2 [Monday Junius 16th, YR42]: “''a couple days ago GDD''” Holobombing, Clarice (data) and Amanda, Vergis and Daniel, Vergis on Sarno “''at a museum exhibit last night''” 
:Day 3 [Tuesday Junius 17th, YR42]: Vergis’ Dream, U-87 Arm Diagnostic, Clarice calls, V-Date

THE IMPERFECTIONS OF MEMORY (S01:E07)
:Day 1 ['''Friday Junius 27th, YR42''']: “''Next game Juinius 27th!''” Amanda at Memorial, Joseph enters V-World, C-Bucks Game, Generative Process, Daniel long night, The Dive, Zoe in U-87

GHOSTS IN THE MACHINE (S01:E08)
:Day 1 [Saturday Junius 28th, YR42]: “''dead - on a saturday night''” Ampa, Zoe in Machine, Amanda at accident site, Fire Test, Vergis and Amanda, Barnabas-Clarice and BBQ

END OF THE LINE (S01:E09)
:Day 1 [Wednesday Quintilis 2nd, YR42  ]: “''tests last week''” “''odd for days''” testing in morning/ “''in bed for days''” Amanda jumps, “''7th next week''” Zoe escapes

This is what I have so far. I will continue to post it. I post here first for review. As stated, certain props such as the newspaper, the documents printed for Durham and such, seem to all illustrate an alternate timeline which was a few months off from this but the props shown in plain sight including some other statements, seem to validate this timeline.--[[User:LeonisLeo|LeonisLeo]] 04:02, 14 February 2014 (EST)
@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 ==Twelve Colonies Series==
-:Move to "Timekeeping in the Twelve Colonies" or somesuch, and add to the Twelve Colonies series? --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 17:13, 26 December 2006 (CST)
+:Move to "Timekeeping in the Twelve Colonies" or somesuch, and add to the Twelve Colonies series? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:13, 26 December 2006 (CST)
 ::It's a better title, yours, and fits better in keeping the data in a superarticles like Science and Twelve Colonies (I like them). I'll keep this as a redirect for shorthand but look into moving it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:45, 26 December 2006 (CST)
@@ Line 107: / Line 107: @@
 END OF THE LINE (S01:E09)
-:Day 1 [Wednesday Quintilis 2nd, YR42]:
+:Day 1 [Wednesday Quintilis 2nd, YR42  ]: “''tests last week''” “''odd for days''” testing in morning/ “''in bed for days''” Amanda jumps, “''7th next week''” Zoe escapes
-::(20 hours before)  [~ 6:00  am] Barnabus early morning,  U-87 “last week” “odd for days”
-::(17 hours before) [~ 9:00 am] Amanda wakes from “in bed for days” Clarice packs, Barnabas morning prayer
-::(15 hours before) [~ 11:00 am] Joseph sick, “Lunch” v-date, FAB, “7th next week”
-::(10 hours before) [~ 4:00 pm] Tamarah, Burn Chip, 10:00pm Rachel
-::(~4-2 hours before) [~ 10-12:00 midnight] Amanda and Daniel’s date, Joseph Derez, U87 Escapes,
-:Day 2 [Wednesday Quintilis 3rd, YR42]
-::(zero hour) [~2:00 am] Amanda & Bridge (might be edited to sync but occurs hours earlier), "kaboom"
 This is what I have so far. I will continue to post it. I post here first for review. As stated, certain props such as the newspaper, the documents printed for Durham and such, seem to all illustrate an alternate timeline which was a few months off from this but the props shown in plain sight including some other statements, seem to validate this timeline.--[[User:LeonisLeo|LeonisLeo]] 04:02, 14 February 2014 (EST)