Editing Talk:CIC/Archive 1

I thought it was "COMBAT Information Center"; can this page be changed? --Ricimer, 26 Aug 2005

==Expansion==
I'm flagging this for expansion. There's a lot of information on scifi.com that we should incorporate, including a detailed floorplan. We should get some words about ''Pegasus's'' CIC up as well. --[[User:April Arcus|April Arcus]] 16:55, 18 October 2005 (EDT)
:There is a little about the origin of the Pegasus sets on its article page as well. Perhaps with Resurrection Ship and later episodes we will gain more. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:52, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

Expansion is complete, using the [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/cic/ QuickTime 3D movie tours of the set] that allowed me to take a picture of CIC from practically any angle. While Sci-Fi Channel's information should always be taken with a grain of salt (the viewer area incorrectly calls CIC the "''Command'' Information Center"), it would be hard to screw up the pictures that make up CIC, and the names of the stations appear sound and match better to the previous labels from the previous incarnation of this page. Formatting was done to allow later text expansion and minimize picture collisions. I removed episode information as much of it was covered in other articles. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:59, 5 January 2006 (EST)

== Help with Image Formatting Here ==

CIC is a very visual place. My recent updates to expand this push my own wiki formatting limits. Day removed the use of breaks I made to keep text from awkwardly colliding about in one sectioon, damaging the asthetics of the page. I reverted that change for now, but any help to improve this page's formatting is greatly appreciated. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:17, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:If you look at the [[User:Steelviper/IslandofMisfitImages/|Island]], Day demonstrated how you can use "div" tags to set up partitions/divisions between sections to make sure that they do not overlap. Is this what you were trying to do? (Also, if you use the /  in the breaks Day is more likely to leave them alone... he's the XHTML enforcer, apparently.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:15, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::That he is! :) I'll look at how that's used and incorporate the idea from the Island. So, are you the lion king? I want to be the Cylon-in-the-box. Nobody wants a Cylon-in-the-box... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:49, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::Those dividers look sharp! I posted that same kind of formatting question on the island, and Day responded by filling in those div tags. I'm glad his tip worked here too. As for my title, I think somebody once proclaimed me the King of the TOS pages. El Rey de Los Paginas de Serie Original feels a bit more appropriate right now, but I think I'm just experimenting in the translating business until somebody who knows what they're doing gets fed up with how bad that is and replaces it with some proper Spanish. As for your title... perhaps the Battlestar Wiki Greeter? (Though you don't seem quite old enough to have taken on that role, if the age requirements are anything like Walmart.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:07, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::For you, alternately, "El Supremo." :) You are authorized to shoot anyone (including yourself) in regards to inquiries about me and how it compares to WalMart greeting functions in the future. Damn it, I'm not that old...I'm not...! (snif) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:23, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::::By your command. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 22:10, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::: Yes! Very sharp! Also, entirely XHTML 1.0 Transitional compliant! *wink* I'm a bit of a [http://validator.w3.org/ validation] nazi because of my experience with being the web guy for [http://www.texassportsweekly.com Texas Sports Weekly]. I'll try to keep my [http://www.w3.org/ W3C]-heiling down to a dull roar, though. Not everyone is as obsessive-compulsive as I am about it. Anyway, I'm glad that div thing works so well. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:14, 25 January 2006 (EST)



== Cinematic Information Confusion ==

I'm having a great deal of difficulty parsing the last "Cinematic Information" bullet, specifically
:The area was likely built with the set budget before later restrictions would make building one impossible

I get that the (stage) area was likely built with the budget for the BSG set. That makes so much sense it's almost redundant. What about "before later restrictions"? Does that maybe have to do with the set budget being reduced in the future? Or some sort of imminent OSHA regulation that would prevent the set's alteration on the sound stage? Or something else?

So I guess I wonder what kind of "restrictions" the writer is talking about, and why "later". ("Later" in reference to what time?)

One thing that makes sense is that the Weapons Control Room needed to be seen in the miniseries or else there would be continuity problems in the regular series, should the show be picked up. But that isn't insurmountable; problems of that nature can usually be dealt with by writing a brief "remodeling" story into the screenplay.

Additionally, it's actually called the The Weapons Control ''Room'' above, but ''Section'' here. Though I suppose one can consider the terms close enough to be equal.  --[[User:JohnH]] 19:25, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

: In [[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: The Next Generation|Star Trek: The Next Generation]] for the [[MemoryAlpha:Encounter at Farpoint|first episode]] they wrote in a scene to occur in Engineering because if they didn't build that set for the pilot, no later budget ''increase'' would allow for the set to be built. Roddenberry though that was a travesty, so he wrote it in after the script was already done.

:That's just an example, but, as I understand it, when a show is new, it gets a big budget for building sets, but for subsequent seasons, the budget is reduced (justified, I suppose, by the idea that most of the sets are already built). Also, how beleivable would a "remodeling" plot be aboard ''Galactica''? The ship's already built. All the space inside the frame is alotted to something. When things like this need expanding, they go into dry dock. I don't think they've got the infrastructure to do much remodeling at all. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:22, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::Day's example is EXACTLY the situation I was thinking of when adding that. It's a presumption for BSG, but a likely one. As far as naming, the CIC tour uses section normally, but Weapons Control Room is the term used in the CIC tour. Of course, Sci-Fi also calls CIC incorrectly as the Command Information Center, so... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:22, 3 February 2006 (EST)

== TOS Bridge ==

Does anyone plan to do an equivalent article about the Original Series control center?
 
[[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 04:25, 17 March 2006 (CST)

: Go for it, man. Make sure one doesn't already exist. A likely place to look would be linked from the TOS page on ''Galactica''. Feel free to get it going, though. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:47, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::[[Core Command]] is what you're looking for. It's actually listed in the stubs in the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|OSAD]]. And I agree... go for it! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:12, 17 March 2006 (CST)

== The Core ==

In "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", Gaeta mentions an area of the CIC known only as "the Core".  The area makes up the second tier of the CIC, covering an area about 1/3 of its perimeter.  Additionally, the area leads into a room lined with extensive computer consoles, which is buzzing with activity.  Despite its obvious importance, I'm not sure exactly what the area does.  I suspect that the Core is an engineering station, or perhaps it is used for astrometrics.  I would love to write it into the article, but I hesitate due to the apparent lack of information regarding its purpose, and could use any research help anybody would be willing to provide.  If anybody knows what the area is used for, or can at least speculate from hints and visual clues, I would sure like to hear it.  I could also use a vidcap.--[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 03:44, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

:Hi, OrionFour. Nice catch. Based on the context of the dialogue as well as the location, "the core" appears to be the otherwise undocumented upper decks and conference areas of CIC. Roslin and Adama have met there several times over the series, most recently in "Crossroads, Part II." Given how much it takes to run an older non-networked battlestar, for CIC to have several decks and people with computers that are independent, the core is just a part of CIC we viewers just have to accept as part of the "background." I think you have plenty of data, so create a subsection as the last items, below the central deck areas already listed. Have fun! :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:05, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

:Since we don't really know anything about the specific stations there, you'd have to stick with general information, but it's worth noting. As for a screenshot: with general shots like this I have a hard time remember scenes that have a good view, but if you have something specific in mind, I can take one. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:16, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

:: Well, if I recall correctly, the FTL station is up in the "core", so we can cap that. Also, there are a few scenes in "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down" where Roslin speaks to Adama; Adama tells her that if he's a Cylon, they're all screwed. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 16:18, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
:::From what I can tell, the FTL station (with the flip cover where they insert the keys) is on the lower level. I'll take a look at "TMU, TMD" tomorrow and see if I can get a good shot. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:25, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
:Virtually all the shots of the Core are the same I've found.  It's typically Adama walking along the perimeter heading towards the back room from the stairs.  Or Adama seen with the 1st floor of the CIC in the back.  I do seem to remember some scene in some episode where Adama and Tigh are leaning against the bulkhead chatting about something.  This scene is shot from the back room, looking outward onto the Core and the 1st floor CIC below.  When I make it back to my main computer on Friday, I'll be able to go through more episodes to find you a good shot.  I'm pretty sure Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down still has the best shots, but I want to look through a few other episodes just to be sure.  In the very beginning of the episode Adama and Roslin are talking in the Core (or perhaps just outside?), and the camera is doing a shot/reverse shot.  When the shot focuses on Adama, all you see is a computer console and the 1st floor CIC below, but when the camera is focused on Roslin you see the back room, which is heavily manned and highly computerized.  I think the shots of Adama walking and the back room are probably your best shots.
:I'm still stuck on exactly what it does.  It's probably just a Mr. Coffee or something.  Goes to show you just how much time and effort went into this series, that even the background is highly detailed and expensive.  Wait a minute.... could this be.... a computer core?  Or would that violate the principle of non-networked computers?  Not if the Core is actually where all the various isolated CIC computers are operated.  It makes sense that a nerve center such as the CIC would require a place to monitor and operate computer systems.  Think of it as a hub, where data comes in from throughout the ship and is then distributed to the various consoles in the CIC.  Imagine what the computer-paranoid Colonials were thinking when they designed the first 12 battlestars.  It wasn't enough to have non-networked computers.  They needed a place where the commander could quickly and easily shut down individuals computer systems.  Additionally, they needed this place to be in the most heavily defended part of the ship - the CIC.  I know I can't put that in the article, because it's not proven, but it seems to me to be the most logical application.  Tell me what you think.  --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 00:48, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
:: Well, the "core" could mean anything. Although a "computer core" would not be violating the principle of non-networked computers. Actually, the computers would still need to be "networked", per se, as there would need to be a server with workstations. Think of it would be a LAN without access to a wider network per se. 
:: Each LAN has a different, unique function. The issue is the different LANs don't communicate with each other directly. They're all individual networks that control only one function (or one group of similar functions). 
:: There would have to be some form of "network" on a battlestar to regulate systems. The one thing I kinda cringe at is the fact that they use the term "network" so carelessly... but that's another subject for another time.
:: As for pictures, the best bet is "TMU, TMD"... although I ''think'' we can get pictures of the core in the first four episodes of Season 3, if memory serves. But don't quote me on that. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 00:59, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
:::Wow... that's RIGHT at the beginning.
:::http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=31&pos=1
:::From http://www.sadgeezer.com/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=753:
:::Gaeta: (approaching) Commander? Here's Doctor Baltar's report. And the President is waiting for you up in the core.
:::Adama: (glances at it) Thank you.

:::Adama then looks to the upper deck and sees President Roslin observing him. He gives a little smile and gestures at her with the report, and she smiles back a little too. A moment later Adama walks up to the core.
:::Adama: (to his men at the controls) Clear the deck. (they do) Madame President, we are the proud owners of the universe's first bona fide Cylon detector.
:::Most of the shots are face shots, but some of the caps show the higher relative position:
:::http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=31&pos=9
:::http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=31&pos=2
:::Also a LITTLE bit behind Adama:
:::http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=31&pos=11
:::Maybe somebody capping by hand could come up with some more specific shots. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 01:56, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
Hey, OrionFour. I think the scene you're talking about with Adama and Tigh chatting up in "the core" is the bit at the beginning of Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II, when Adama calls the Roslin to ask for her resignation. But I could be mistaken. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 19:34, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
:Hey everybody.  Thanks for all your help with this by the way, it's much appreciated!  I just wanted to go over a couple things about it.  I think what I'm going to stick to is that what is the core is defined as the second deck of the CIC.  In TMU,TMD, Gaeta mentions that the President is in the core, and at that moment she is standing on the second deck looking down.  
:As for pictures, the majority of those available are looking down on the first floor from the core, however, I think the best shots are of those with the camera following Roslin or Adama (in TMU,TMD), or of the camera pointed up from the first deck looking at Roslin, who is looking down (TMU,TMD).  I'll be back on Sunday.  Thanks, everybody!!--[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 14:01, 5 October 2007 (CDT)
::I've written the section into the article.  All it needs now is a screenshot.  The most inclusive shot i've found is 1:06 into TMU,TMD just after the DRADIS console comes down, but I need somebody to capture a shot for me.  The shots from 2:12 to 2:14 look pretty good too and I can't decide which is better.--[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 04:12, 16 October 2007 (CDT)

::I finally got around to taking some pictures. They aren't ideal, but it will have to do. I also found two nice general CIC shots that are better than what is currently on the page. Will update the page shortly --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:29, 17 October 2007 (CDT)
:::Nice.  It looks really good.  Thanks! --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 03:32, 18 October 2007 (CDT)

== Combat vs Command ==

[http://www.flickr.com/photos/honus/1608183085/in/set-72157602485969223/ This] HQ picture recently posted on flickr by a set visitor back in September shows that the doors still have ''Command'' Information Center on them. Interesting. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 22:50, 27 October 2007 (CDT)
:Well, I mean what % of the time does a ship (not being pursued across the galaxy as the last remnant of the human race) spend in combat. It's still the hub of command and control in non-combat situations. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:17, 28 October 2007 (CDT)
::In reality, the CIC is the area in which the ship's sensors, radar, etc. are managed and information about the enemy is collected. Hence the name ''Combat Information''. The bridge is where the ship is controlled and steered from. BSG, however, combines these two distinct functions into one room. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:37, 28 October 2007 (CDT)