Editing Talk:Baltar as Cylon speculation/Archive 1

Being from the standard Wikipedia, and not knowing the nature of this type of article, how are these questions able to be discussed here?  What I'm driving at is, I have theories of my own about who/what Baltar is, which seem to fit my observations.  Are they appropriate here?  If not, how are these other speculations plausible?  Thanks in advance for any replies. - [[User:Cobaltbluetony|Cobaltbluetony]] 10:08, 17 November 2006 (CST)

:Feel free to discuss them on the talk pages, first- it saves some effort if edits on the main page have to be reverted, etc :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 02:33, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== Major Revision ==

I've updated and concised this article, removing some [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]] and disproven [[BW:CJ|plausible speculation]] and detailing season three events where Baltar's nature is directly questioned in a story arc. I've also altered the article's tone to make it more neutral. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:23, 6 January 2007 (CST)
:Excellent update! --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:57, 6 January 2007 (CST)

==Baltar's Cylonity Debunked==
I think we should at least include mention that Baltar's imaginary Number Six basically told him that he was not a Cylon and that he would die, therefore telling us of her opinion that he is nothing more than a human. Now, she seems to know things, so I'm thinking the fact that she made an "official statement" sort of lowers Baltar's probablity of being a Cylon. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:33, 9 February 2007 (CST)
:According to the [[Podcast:Rapture|Rapture podcast]] Baltar ''believes'' he isn't a Cylon but still isn't sure. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:38, 10 February 2007 (CST)
::I'm not saying it is (the title is mainly to grab attention to discussion), but the fact that Six believes he is not a Cylon is big minus points on his Cylon probablity scale, enough, I would say, to lower him to less than moderate. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 04:49, 10 February 2007 (CST)
:::His scaling as highly probable probably has a lot to do with his fishiness (having an internal [[Number Six|Six]], being the anointed one in the search for the [[final five]], etc.) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 13:00, 11 February 2007 (CST)

:Btw, I prefer the term "cylonicity" ;) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:06, 11 February 2007 (CST)

== The Original Programmer ==

What if Baltar is a Cylon now but at one point existed in human form? I imagine he could have been the original programmer that created the humanoid Cylons. His extraordinary intelligence and personality certainly do not speak against it. Genius  and insanity are degrees apart.

The personalities of the twelve humanoid Cylons have to come from somewhere. Perhaps they were copies or amalgamates of humans? Or perhaps Baltar simply infused the first with a copy of his own personality?

If your creator died, would you not want to revive him? Especially considering their religious inclination. If he did create them and died to "liberate" them from the humans, sacrificing all, he would be something of a religious icon comparable to Jesus Christ. And the Cylons would indeed be his children - and he their father.

Why does he not know that he is a Cylon then? Who knows how much the Cylons can "read" from the revived Cylon personality anyway? Perhaps they chose to revive him with edited memories? Why not do this for every Cylon? He could be the exception. Perhaps it is a laborious process or involves imperfect methods? Baltar certainly suffers from some mental problems. Or maybe they simply choose not to edit their reality because it would be incompatible with their religion to not experience, suffer and remember? If you could live forever and edit out all the bad moments - would it not become a bland life?--[[User:Andrewh1112|Andrewh1112]] 01:43, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
:I thought that the creators have already said that the Cylons are not copies of humans past or present? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:46, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
:According to Ron Moore, [[Humanoid Cylons#Notes|there are no "human" versions of Cylons, since the Cylons are unique personalities.]] --- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki &mdash; ''New'']</sup> 07:51, 21 August 2007 (CDT)
::Both of your comments could be answered with the word amalagamate. And there's always the possibility of the one exception for a creator (Baltar).--[[User:Andrewh1112|Andrewh1112]] 20:23, 21 August 2007 (CDT)

== Thoughts post ==

Some thoughts for the powers that be. 

In the Baltar/Christ section, we might need to ad in the parallels of Baltar's wounds in "The Hub" and the abdominal wound delivered to Christ by Saint Longinus. Also, while he's bleeding out he strikes a crucificix pose with arms outstretched.

And from Razor:

"And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering." 

As of the Hub, Baltar has admitted his guilt to Roslin ;) Just one possibly and probably too obvious interpretation.

==Entertainment Weekly==
According to Entertainment Weekly, in an interview with RDM, it was discovered that no one in this picture is a Cylon. [http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20169703,00.html]  Do we have any other sources like that for this?

: Well, Baltar isn't a Cylon, so... I'd like to nuke this page, since it's all speculation that's false. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 22:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

== Events from the episode Downloaded ==

At current, the section reads:
The episode "Downloaded" contains revelations that reduce the possibility that Baltar is a Cylon. In dialogue with each other, numerous Cylon characters distinctly refer to Baltar as human. Although it is possible that they might keep the information from Baltar, the nature of the Cylon thought collective would seem to make no sense to keep it a secret to each other. In addition, this episode introduces the concept of a Number Six copy with a virtual Baltar in her head. Through Six, Baltar pushes for the Cylons to be more human; for example, letting Samuel Anders go free despite his destruction of a building and many other Humanoid Cylons. If Baltar were a Cylon, the events in the episode would make little sense. 

However - 

The Cylons referring to Baltar as human is irrelevant - they were unaware of the identities of the Final Five as a whole, and it was not until Three had her repeated "divine" visions during resurrection that she was able to discover the identity of the Five.

The Virtual Baltar is likely unconnected to Baltar himself, as the Virtual Six is not "truly" the model Six that Baltar fell in love with.

Further, letting Samuel Anders go isn't a good indication of anything due to his being one of the Final Five.  One of the Raiders was able to recognize this on some level, leading to the Raider not firing on Anders despite having a clean shot.  The Virtual Baltar could simply be voicing the same thing that allowed the Raider to recognize Anders, though in an indirect way that doesn't acknowledge his Cylon nature.



Since I'm new here, I didn't want to just jump in and start making lots of edits without review. {{unsigned|TheOmnius}}

: Welcome aboard! Glad to have you! In response to the points that you've raised, you are indeed correct that the Significant Seven were unaware of the Final Five as a whole. (Or at least, most of them.) However, as for editing the page... I wouldn't waste too much time on it, as it'll likely get revised after the series airs. (And, no, Baltar isn't the final Cylon, as RDM made perfectly clear when discussing "[[The Last Supper]]" photo.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
@@ Line 64: / Line 64: @@
 : Welcome aboard! Glad to have you! In response to the points that you've raised, you are indeed correct that the Significant Seven were unaware of the Final Five as a whole. (Or at least, most of them.) However, as for editing the page... I wouldn't waste too much time on it, as it'll likely get revised after the series airs. (And, no, Baltar isn't the final Cylon, as RDM made perfectly clear when discussing "[[The Last Supper]]" photo.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
-== Let's keep it (but lock it) ==
-Like its older original page on Cylons, let's keep it around (but locked) with a note on how crazy we all were in speculating. I led the initial charge that Baltar was probably one...so the crow is on me (lightly glazed with a hint of ginger). Thoughts? It'll be a fun bit of stuff. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 03:28, 20 January 2009 (UTC)