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| {{podcast RDM other|author=Madbrood|emailAuthor2=,[[Special:Emailuser/Kahran|Kahran]], [[Special:Emailuser/Steelviper|Steelviper]],|suffix=s|additionalCopyright=, Jamie Bamber, James Callis, Harry Wells, Terry Dresbach, Tahmoh Penikett, and Mark Sheppard}} | | {{podcast|author=Madbrood|emailAuthor2=,[[Special:Emailuser/Kahran|Kahran]], [[Special:Emailuser/Steelviper|Steelviper]],|suffix=s|additionalCopyright=, Jamie Bamber, James Callis, Harry Wells, Terry Dresbach, Tahmoh Penikett, and Mark Sheppard}} |
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| ==Introduction== | | ==Introduction== |
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| '''Callis''': That's very nice to know, thank you. | | '''Callis''': That's very nice to know, thank you. |
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| '''Penikett''': James and I did [[w:DragonCon|DragonCon]] and you should have seen, he was, I mean out of the two of us people were like [[Galen Tyrol|Chief]] [ [[Aaron Douglas]] ], Helo, Chief, Helo, they weren't even recognizing him. So he had this baseball cap on and this big ass beard- | | '''Penikett''': James and I did DragonCon and you should have seen, he was, I mean out of the two of us people were like [[Galen Tyrol|Chief]] [Aaron Douglas], Helo, Chief, Helo, they weren't even recognizing him. So he had this baseball cap on and this big ass beard- |
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| '''Mrs. Ron''': -His disguise. | | '''Mrs. Ron''': -His disguise. |
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| '''Bamber''': -Lose your temper! | | '''Bamber''': -Lose your temper! |
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| '''Callis''': That final note is true because, like, there's all this stuff about, when you do the thing that is like, you know, as you would be, I've seen these thing like people with hypothermia and like they're waiting for the rescue, apparently what happens in, like, <unintelligible> is like you slow down- | | '''Callis''': That final note is true because, like, there's all this stuff about, when you do the thing that is like, you know, as you would be, I've seen these thing like people with hypothermia and like they're waiting for the rescue, apparently what happens in, like, [unintelligible] is like you slow down- |
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| '''Everyone''': (laughs) | | '''Everyone''': (laughs) |
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| '''Crosstalk''' | | '''Crosstalk''' |
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| '''Callis''': ...So whenever you're watching <unintelligible> you're like "Get the thing! Get the thing!" it's like "God, you're speaking quickly for someone who's about to drop dead." | | '''Callis''': ...So whenever you're watching [unintelligible] you're like "Get the thing! Get the thing!" it's like "God, you're speaking quickly for someone who's about to drop dead." |
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| '''Mrs. Ron''': (laughs) - As your heart is slowing down- | | '''Mrs. Ron''': (laughs) - As your heart is slowing down- |
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| '''RDM''': The point of this was- | | '''RDM''': The point of this was- |
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| '''Callis''': -This was to say that we shot this scene again, and we shot the scene on ''[[Colonial One]]'', and it was the same dialog and it was basically a bit where Number Six say to Gaius, she's like "Do you want children Gaius?" - | | '''Callis''': -This was to say that we shot this scene again, and we shot the scene on [[Colonial One]], and it was the same dialog and it was basically a bit where Number Six say to Gaius, she's like "Do you want children Gaius?" - |
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| '''RDM''': -Oh yeah! Did we cut that? | | '''RDM''': -Oh yeah! Did we cut that? |
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| '''Callis''': -It was so real, and it took away, or at least it grounded or galvanized me away from the explosions, from being in love with a robot, from being, you know, in an alter-reality where spaceships run and you're on board one, this thing, a basic thing about a man who was like "I love playing around and the women, everything, do I want children? Forget it already!" and was like, that, that took me somewhere, it was a great line to kind of, to go on I think in that sense I think I found it pretty quickly, and I think that I found it- | | '''Callis''': -It was so real, and it took away, or at least it grounded or galvanized me away from the explosions, from being in love with a robot, from being, you know, in an alter-reality where spaceships run and you're on board one, this thing, a basic thing about a man who was like "I love playing around and the women, everything, do I want children? Forget it already!" and was like, that, that took me somewhere, it was a great line to kind of, to go on I think in that sense I think I found it pretty quickly, and I think that I found it- |
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| '''RDM''': -Moreso than the Miniseries? | | '''RDM''': -Moreso than the Minisereis? |
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| '''Callis''': Miniseries, I genuinely had a bit of a problem with- | | '''Callis''': Miniseries, I genuinely had a bit of a problem with- |
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| '''RDM''': Oh, I remember this. | | '''RDM''': Oh, I remember this. |
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| '''Callis''': And I was like forgot I'm a scientist and I've like been going out with this woman for two years and I don't know her name? | | '''Callis''': And I was like forgot I'm a scientist and I've like been going out with this woman for two years and I don't know here name? |
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| '''RDM''': Well I was working on ''[[w:Carnivàle|Carnivàle]]'', but this question got back to me- | | '''RDM''': Well I was working on ''Carnivale'', but this question got back to me- |
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| '''Callis''': Okay, so like my question is- | | '''Callis''': Okay, so like my question is- |
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| '''Crosstalk''' | | '''Crosstalk''' |
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| '''Callis''': -There was a great <unintelligible> where Rymer was like "actually James, the whole thing is, it's one of those things that you're this guy, you've got this beautiful lady, she likes you and like at the introduction you just missed her name, " (laughs) "and you've never asked her." | | '''Callis''': -There was a great [unintelligible] where Rymer was like "actually James, the whole thing is, it's one of those things that you're this guy, you've got this beautiful lady, she likes you and like at the introduction you just missed her name, " (laughs) "and you've never asked her." |
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| '''Bamber''': And I've never been able to get it! | | '''Bamber''': And I've never been able to get it! |
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| '''Callis''': -It's so awful, that you don't know! (laughs) | | '''Callis''': -It's so awful, that you don't know! (laughs) |
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| '''RDM''': It was a ''[[w:Seinfeld|Seinfeld]]'' moment, and that's why I really liked it, I had the same, it essentially the same- | | '''RDM''': It was a ''Seinfeild'' moment, and that's why I really liked it, I had the same, it essentially the same- |
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| '''Callis''': It's like you never over two years- | | '''Callis''': It's like you never over two years- |
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| '''Peniket''': -Because he didn't care enough! | | '''Peniket''': -Because he didn't care enough! |
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| '''RDM''': -He'd have known at some point, my take, here, seriously, my take is Gaius Baltar at some point realized, at some point Gaius Baltar realized that he did not know the name of Number Six- | | '''RDM''': -He'd have known at some point, my take, here, seriously, my take is Gaius Baltar at some point realised, at some point Gaius Baltar realised that he did not know the name of Number Six- |
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| '''Callis''': Yes. | | '''Callis''': Yes. |
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| '''RDM''': -Yes- | | '''RDM''': -Yes- |
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| '''Callis''': -And I imagine that for any person sitting in a room like we are now, somebody in the group turns around and goes "heh, guess what, you know? You thought that I was from [[w:Orange County, California|Orange County]], BUT!"- | | '''Callis''': -And I imagine that for any person sitting in a room like we are now, somebody in the group turns around and goes "heh, guess what, you know? You thought that I was from Orange County, BUT!"- |
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| '''Sheppard''': -My friends- | | '''Sheppard''': -My friends- |
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| '''Crosstalk''' | | '''Crosstalk''' |
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| '''Callis''': There were things, there were things to get over and surmount, and I remember one of the things at the end was this thing about looking at the, looking at the screens as the world blew up and it went berserk- | | '''Callis''': There were things, there were things to get over and surmount, and I remember one of the things at the end was this thing about looking at the, looking at the screens as the world blew up and it went breserk- |
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| '''RDM''': Yeah, yeah- | | '''RDM''': Yeah, yeah- |
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| '''Bamber''': -Yeah- | | '''Bamber''': -Yeah- |
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| '''RDM''': -Like less than 10%. And I felt like "you know what, okay fine," those people will be in for a big fucking shock <unintelligible>- | | '''RDM''': -Like less than 10%. And I felt like "you know what, okay fine," those people will be in for a big fucking shock [unintelligible]- |
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| '''Sheppard''': (laughs) | | '''Sheppard''': (laughs) |
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| '''RDM''': -You feel this sense of doom impinging on the characters and eventually there's a payoff to that, and I just felt that, that's a really, that's how you structure it- | | '''RDM''': -You feel this sense of doom impinging on the characters and eventually there's a payoff to that, and I just felt that, that's a really, that's how you structure it- |
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| '''Bamber''': -But it's <unintelligible> very useful, because my mind is always thrown back to those first 45 minutes, because in everything that we do, every character on the show is always remembering what life was like- | | '''Bamber''': -But it's [unintelligible] very useful, because my mind is always thrown back to those first 45 minutes, because in everything that we do, every character on the show is always remembering what life was like- |
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| '''RDM''': -Yeah- | | '''RDM''': -Yeah- |
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| '''RDM''': -When life completely changed irrevocably, that okay, who were they for that one second? | | '''RDM''': -When life completely changed irrevocably, that okay, who were they for that one second? |
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| '''Bamber''': Yeah, I think <unintelligible>. | | '''Bamber''': Yeah, I think [unintelligible]. |
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| '''Callis''': But, can I just say the shot that really sold the whole that, and it's a strange, the shot that sold the whole miniseries to me was [[Mary McDonnell|Mary]] [McDonnell] finding out that she, [[Laura Roslin|Laura]] has the cancer, and in that room in this glass room in the day time, suddenly I looked up- | | '''Callis''': But, can I just say the shot that really sold the whole that, and it's a strange, the shot that sold the whole miniseries to me was [[Mary McDonnell|Mary]] [McDonnell] finding out that she, [[Laura Roslin|Laura]] has the cancer, and in that room in this glass room in the day time, suddenly I looked up- |
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| '''Mrs. Ron''': -Like how we see police helicopters!- | | '''Mrs. Ron''': -Like how we see police helicopters!- |
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| '''Callis''': -<unintelligible> disaster that happened to her person, you know I was so involved in that and the last thing I was looking for were like beautiful things rolling through the sky, and there was this thing about in that way it was kind of like, it's all so beautiful, the glass and the electricity and everything... It's going to be a disaster- | | '''Callis''': -[unintelligible] disaster that happened to her person, you know I was so involved in that and the last thing I was looking for were like beautiful things rolling through the sky, and there was this thing about in that way it was kind of like, it's all so beautiful, the glass and the electricity and everything... It's going to be a disaster- |
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| '''RDM''': -That is all- | | '''RDM''': -That is all- |
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| '''Callis''': -You've made it so, so pretty and so lovely, what- | | '''Callis''': -You've made it so, so pretty and so lovely, what- |
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| '''RDM''': -That is entirely Michael Rymer, that, that's re-, that's not in the script and it wasn't the way I visualised it, they told me about it, is Michael wanted to do this and I was like intrigued by it and I, but again I was producing ''Carnivàle'', and I said "oh yeah, sounds, sounds great, okay." | | '''RDM''': -That is entirely Michael Rymer, that, that's re-, that's not in the script and it wasn't the way I visualised it, they told me about it, is Michael wanted to do this and I was like intrigued by it and I, but again I was producing ''Carneval'', and I said "oh yeah, sounds, sounds great, okay." |
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| '''Callis''': Okay. | | '''Callis''': Okay. |
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| '''RDM''': -It's one of the defining images of our back story, when I think about Caprica- | | '''RDM''': -It's one of the defining images of our back story, when I think about Caprica- |
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| '''Penikett''': -Beautiful <unintelligible>- | | '''Penikett''': -Beautiful [unintelligible]- |
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| '''RDM''': -Or anything about these people before the attack, the image of Laura sitting in that big space with the ships going over is the one thing that I think of. | | '''RDM''': -Or anything about these people before the attack, the image of Laura sitting in that big space with the ships going over is the one thing that I think of. |
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| '''Sheppard''': -Amazing- | | '''Sheppard''': -Amazing- |
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| '''RDM''': -Of anything else, I always think of <unintelligible>- | | '''RDM''': -Of anything else, I always think of [unintelligible]- |
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| '''Sheppard''': -I remember it vividly, it's a very poignant piece- Caprica- | | '''Sheppard''': -I remember it vividly, it's a very poignant piece- Caprica- |
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| '''RDM''': Any category, in any category, just what would you change about the show? | | '''RDM''': Any category, in any category, just what would you change about the show? |
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| '''Mrs. Ron''': -[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II#One Year Later|Being fat]]- | | '''Mrs. Ron''': -Being fat- |
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| '''Bamber''': -No, I love being fat, that was- | | '''Bamber''': -No, I love being fat, that was- |
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| '''Callis''': I think that- | | '''Callis''': I think that- |
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| '''RDM''': -When you're doing ''[[w:Star Trek|Star Trek]]''s and you're doing these whole space operas, when you're doing shows that have, or an ''[[w:Alias (TV series)|Alias]]'' or something that has an outside sort of organization that you're struggling against and there's a conflict- | | '''RDM''': -When you're doing ''Star Trek''’s and you're doing these whole space operas, when you're doing shows that have, or an ''Alias'' or something that has an outside sort of organization that you're struggling against and there's a conflict- |
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| '''Bamber''': -Don't you think that- | | '''Bamber''': -Don't you think that- |
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| '''RDM''': But you can't resist going back to that cookie jar. And eventually what happens is, the further you get into an episodic television series like this -- | | '''RDM''': But you can't resist going back to that cookie jar. And eventually what happens is, the further you get into an episodic television series like this -- |
| now we're in the third -- 3 seasons under our belt, plus the miniseries; that's a lot of hours -- now -- at a certain level you just start going, well, I just want to know more about the Cylons at this point. I mean Jesus, how much more am I going to write about, you know, Laura and Tori and Tigh, without doing something about, well, Jesus, who's Cavil? There's a character that comes aboard the Galactica, and suddenly I'm fascinated with who Cavil is. As a writer and as a viewer, I want to know, the atheist Cylon? Tell me more about that. And we start just opening up that world-- but to your point, I don't know if ultimately, if that doesn't undercut the series and demystify what drew you to it initially. | | now we're in the third -- 3 seasons under our belt, plus the miniseries; that's a lot of hours -- now -- at a certain level you just start going, well, I just want to know more about the Cylons at this point. I mean J---s, how much more am I going to write about, you know, Laura and Tori and Tigh, without doing something about, well, J---s, who's Cavil? There's a character that comes aboard the Galactica, and suddenly I'm fascinated with who Cavil is. As a writer and as a viewer, I want to know, the atheist Cylon? Tell me more about that. And we start just opening up that world-- but to your point, I don't know if ultimately, if that doesn't undercut the series and demystify what drew you to it initially. |
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| '''Callis''': I think it's a gutsy move. And reading some people who, like, who, whatever on the internet, people who are writing in -- that -- what is to be said of, like, you know, hey, listen, this is the gimmick: we never meet them. That's going to get old as well. | | '''Callis''': I think it's a gutsy move. And reading some people who, like, who, whatever on the internet, people who are writing in -- that -- what is to be said of, like, you know, hey, listen, this is the gimmick: we never meet them. That's going to get old as well. |
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| '''RDM''': We keep wanting to write... | | '''RDM''': We keep wanting to write... |
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| '''Callis''': ...what you get is this thing about, "my god, how do they..." | | '''Callis''': ...what you get is this thing about, "my g-d, how do they..." |
| You set up lots of questions to be answered again [to Terri: "yes, please"] for later on. | | You set up lots of questions to be answered again [to Terri: "yes, please"] for later on. |
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| <laughter> | | <laughter> |
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| '''RDM''': So that's like your nightmare as an actor, right?
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| '''???''': I actually had to tell him, I said, I am so embarrassed. I had no idea. I had no idea it was a fat suit.
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| '''Penikett''': The few scenes I had with him in the beginning, every time he was eating something in the scene? I could not keep a straight face!
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| <crosstalk>
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| '''RDM''': Everybody was talking about the one shot, of the towel-wearing fat Lee walking away...
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| '''Bamber''': We had to stand there, me and my double, my gut double. We had to mirror each other, with no mirror. It was two sinks, it was a parallel universe for the mirror with two bars of soap, two everything, me and him.
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| '''???''': I had no idea!
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| '''Bamber''': Moving at the same time so that they would pan off his belly, round onto my face, and then as I walked away, they'd be back onto him.
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| '''???''': Fascinating.
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| '''Bamber''': It was in and out of the mirror. And it was me and him, just being Marcel Marceau. Anyway, while I was doing all that, you were making this great socio-political drama.
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| <laughter>
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| '''???''': "While I was in space being fat!"
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| '''Bamber''': Which honestly, I think are my favorite episodes, ever, that we've ever done.
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| '''RDM''': Really! That's interesting.
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| '''Bamber''': Yeah, absolutely. And I have to sort of say that the Cylons -- this is my point about the Cylons, really, that I think they work really well when they're in a human context. Like Grace discovering that she's a Cylon in the dormant... But going to them?
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| '''RDM''': Yeah...
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| '''Bamber''': ...and destroying your picture... do you know how you started the show with an idea of fixed camera positions and all that kind of stuff?
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| '''RDM''': Yeah.
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| '''Bamber''': That's ... I don't think...
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| '''RDM''': It crosses the line.
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| '''Bamber''': But it begs the question.
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| '''Bamber''': I am hugely invested in the Cylon...
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| '''RDM''': That's... I'm not sure I'm invested.
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| '''Bamber''': Like I didn't buy that episode, what was it, "Downloaded".
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| '''RDM''': Oh, I loved "Downloaded".
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| '''Bamber''': You see, I didn't.
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| '''RDM''': Really?! Why?
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| '''Bamber''': Oh, Cylons in coffee shops.
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| <general laughter>
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| <crosstalk>
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| '''Terri''': You've been reading the board too much.
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| '''RDM''': No, that's fair.
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| '''Penikett''': I think that was one of those episodes, though. A lot of people were reading...
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| '''RDM''': You know what, though, that was a deliberate choice.
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| '''Bamber''': Of course...
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| '''RDM''': I want them to be so hu... what they want to do is, I thought this is basically a statement about humanity. These are beings, created beings that are so intelligent that they have created like a theology, a belief in a monotheistic God, and they believe with all their souls that they have souls. But what they want to do really is they want to go to, like, a Starbucks.
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| <laughter>
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| '''RDM''': And they want to, like, have baristas and stuff. That's humanity, basically. It's basically that profound and that completely, like trivial, on some level.
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| '''Bamber''': I guess. I just can't get over... and I get evangelistic about our show to people who don't like science fiction, and that's my...
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| '''???''': You've heard the premise that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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| '''RDM''': Well, I really like "Downloaded" because I really like Head Baltar.
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| '''Bamber''': Head Baltar is great.
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| '''RDM''': You know, the Baltar who's in Caprica's -- Caprica Six's imagination.
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| '''Callis''': When we did -- you know, when we did that episode initially, I must say-- I was kind of like, um, how is this going to run? How is this going to work itself out? And I think that there were things that were hinted at in the script that needed to be, um, brought to the fore. And one of those things -- I remember being in a room with like, you know, these beautiful women -- Lucy Lawless, Grace Park, and Tricia Helfer.
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| '''RDM''': I know, it was you and like, babes...
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| '''Callis''': And I was like, looking at all of them and I was like -- Yes, that was the moment. It was like, "D'Anna's about to kill you". It's not about her being, like, your buddy and her -- your -- friend. This is about, like, you know, double espionage. This is about thought crime. Say the wrong thing, think the wrong thing, and you're going to be boxed and that will be you forever. And, um, I suppose once -- when you've thought about the scary elements in between all of these, kind of, as I say, beautiful looking women, there was something that really kind of hinged... One of the lines I remember from that one is Grace throwing that thing across the room and going "I'm a lying, frakking machine".
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| <crosstalk>: I love that scene.
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| '''Callis''': And that's kind of so -- I keep on bringing that up when we're doing this thing, I'm like, are the Cylons allowed to partake in our society on some level? Or is this thing about, we've already heard it from one of the Cylons themselves. They're a lying frakking machine. Can they ever be trusted to say, like the real thing or the thing that might help?
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| '''RDM''': Here's a question from online from...
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| '''Terri''': From midshift brig.
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| '''RDM''': This is probably for Tahmoh and Lee. Did any of you have a particular military man or woman (well, probably a man)...
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| '''Terri''': Not necessarily.
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| '''RDM''': ... to model from when you developed your character.
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| '''???''': G.I. Jane!
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| [38:26]
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| <! -------------->
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| '''RDM''': Other than G.I. Jane! Any historical people, or any filmic performances, such as "Patton".
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| '''Penikett''':
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| '''RDM''': Were you a war movie fan?
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| '''Penikett''': Not a huge one, but yeah, I've always gone to see them. I've always been quite interested. My grandfather.
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| [00:42:13]
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| '''Penikett''': You know what? I never considered the military, but I know when I was young, like you said, I think I was very curious about the Second World War and war in general. You know, what motivates peoples and countries to do this and everything like I said, my grandfather and grandmother's generation went through. I did consider being a police officer when I was younger. You know, I'm sort of fascinated by the RCMP, and being a Mountie... but it didn't last for very long.
| |
| Almost every interview I've done, it's like, how much of a soldier is Helo, and it means everything to him, it really does.
| |
|
| |
| '''Sheppard'''?: ...sense of stoicism...
| |
|
| |
| '''Penikett''': ...compromise the safety of his wife or child, you know...
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk>: It's a beautiful dilemma.
| |
|
| |
| [00:43:08]
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': Do you want to do this... This is from Malcolm12, who is a wonderful poster, very <unintelligible>.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Assuming you are Baltar, what's it's going to take...
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': Let's go at it this way first. Assuming you're *not* Baltar, you've got Baltar trussed up in an unused airlock and five minutes to kill. What do you do? Either one of you. You've got him trapped...
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': This totally depends in some fashion on whether you're a female fan or a male fan.
| |
|
| |
| <general laughter and crosstalk>
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': Wait, James has a script idea! "I think there should be six girls trying to kiss me..."
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': And they all sort of look like Six, yeah.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': This leads directly to another question, which is what's the Cylon goo feel like?
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': So assuming you've got Baltar trussed up in an unused airlock and five minutes to kill, what would you do?
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk>
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': And assuming you're Baltar, what's it going to take to get out of that airlock and untrussed?
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': One of the things when you're in this thing, and the show is about being specific to the moment. I have no idea in this sense about what somebody's personal beef is that they want to keep you there or...
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': Here's another one.
| |
|
| |
| '''Penikett''': Can I answer that one for a second? For me personally I'd have an issue with it, because I'm fully conscious of the fact that one of the main reasons my baby wasn't aborted was because Baltar came up with this brilliant idea of stem cell research...
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': Ahh!
| |
|
| |
| '''Sheppard''' or '''Bamber''': See, you love the machines, you love the bad guys...
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': You're a Cylon lover!
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk>
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': I have a big stumbling block... I want it to be credible, or at least in my mind, whatever that might mean to me, to be credible. And there was all this stuff in "Epiphanies" about the man, like, finding a way to cure this disease with the stem cell of a baby. And something about this particular idea really appealed to me on every single level. I so loved it. I loved it because looking at the political spectrum at the moment, I realized the money from the government is *not* going into stem cell research. It galls me and in a way that's like, what's the word, anti-being a human being, if you're not into this thing, I'm so disappointed. And the fact that it paid off, and that there was this kind of courageous jump, what I loved about it was essentially the narcissism of Gaius Baltar is something -- "I've had the most brilliant idea! Unless I put it into action, noboody's going to know how brilliant I am!"
| |
|
| |
| <laughter>
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': That's what I love about Baltar!
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': So Laura's kind of a by-product.
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk>
| |
|
| |
| '''Penikett''': You remember this scene, though. I was having this stand-off with Adama, and James has this classic moment -- this is the first time we've *seen* each other since I've given up my seat to this man, OK, I'm sitting in the hallway having this Mexican standoff, I've got my hand on the gun, what-have-you, and he's yelling at me. James just came in and... I had a really hard time not cracking up, man.
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk>
| |
|
| |
| '''Penikett''': He comes running in to tell Adama this idea, and he stops and he just looks at me, like, who? It's you?
| |
|
| |
| '''???''': You saved my life!
| |
|
| |
| '''Penikett''': You saved my life! But here's my idea... And he literally almost just steps in front of me. OK, I don't know what you guys are doing, but I have something really important to say right here. He's sitting between us suddenly telling Adama.
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': ...when Lucy Lawless first turns up as D'Anna Biers doing the interview with James as she walks by...
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': Oh, yeah.
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': Do you remember? And she first meets you in the corridor. And you realize the interview is not going to happen...
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk>: That's classic! I love that...
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': That was Bob. I was like, what the hell am I doing here? and Bob went, <in an American accent> "Well, James, you really want an interview!"
| |
|
| |
| <general laughter>
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''' or '''Sheppard'''?: But that's the other great decision of this show, that Baltar really isn't a bad guy. He's the bad guy in the show because he carries the name, and ...
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk>
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber'''?: When I read the script,
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': He's not a villain. From the very beginning...
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': It's self-preservation
| |
|
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': ...when I was looking at translating the original show. The traitor was fundamental to the idea of what that show was. And when I was developing "Galactica", I was saying, OK, take this show and develop it. Not just throw everything out. OK, fundamental to that show was the idea that the human race was betrayed by someone from within. It wasn't just, you know, a bolt from the blue. There was somebody within mankind that actually helped this to happen. And why would you do that? Why would you ever do that? And I couldn't imagine any reason why he would ever do that. And it had to be something that he didn't realize he was doing, but he did, that he's still culpable for, that basically he is responsible for the things that happened in some way, without him ever realizing it but because of an outgrowth of his own weaknesses as a human being, because he is the most human of all the characters in the show. And it was through this kind of like "oh my G-d, what have I just f_king done? Really? Oh! I'd better call my lawyer!" There's an instinctive pullback...
| |
|
| |
| [00:49:30]
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''' or '''Callis'''?: But the amazing thing is, that three seasons deep, that's still the case.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': That's the character.
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': That I, starting out, thought, well, when is Baltar going to become Baltar? It's going to be like "the making of..." And that moment has almost come many times.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': The show's been about "how close can I take you to that point?"
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''' or '''Callis'''?: And the beginning of Season 3 is as close as it will ever get, probably.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': I've always thought about, I wanted to take Baltar as far as I possibly could to the point where you just could never tolerate him again and see if I could always bring him back...
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': Having gone through the first few episodes of Season 3, when you're living them in the moment, you think this man is now irredeemable. Because everyone's seen those episodes now. Irredeemable. And, well, I won't elaborate about what I'm doing right now, but...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': It's something different...
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': But he still didn't fundamentally, black on white, cross that line. And you have created a show where there is no bad character.
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': Where people cross that line every single episode...
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': Everyone crosses that line...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': They do it as human beings.
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': But you haven't vilified, given anyone "you're the bad guy" in this show. There's no evil person in the show. Everyone has the potential for good and evil.
| |
| Everyone has the potential for all the gamut of human responses...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Because I think that that's true. And I think it's easier to write the show on some level it's not really...
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': But you must have had pressure from networks and saying "Come on, who's bad and who's good..." I'm asking you as the good guy, why...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': There's always a general pressure to let the good guys win and the bad guys be defeated.
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': Is that a network thing? Or is that in our psyches?
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': It's just a general thing. Anybody that gives me notes...when I get notes from anybody who's not within the confines of a writers' room, that means when I was coming up through the ranks, before I was a head writer, I never got notes from someone who wasn't a writer that didn't ultimately have a lot to do with basically making it more traditional and basically saying, "you know what? We want to feel good when the hero triumphs. And we don't want to sort of, why are we celebrating the bad guys?"
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': How many movies do we rewrite because the bad guy doesn't get his in the end?
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk>
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': It's just a reflection of any kind of corporate structure. It tends to go to certain conservative impulses and conservative in terms of storytelling is to make it a little more traditional, a little safer, make it something that's a little more accessible so generally, good executives and bad, there's a general kind of push to make it a little more acceptable. Now some executives ride that pretty far back and don't give you that impulse very much. But they will give it to you every once in a while. And then bad executives just say it to you every f-king phone call, and you want to rip their throats out. But it's in the nature of the system to sort of do that, to try to make it a little more familiar, because you know I have to sell this. And people like the familiar.
| |
|
| |
| '''Sheppard'''?: Don't you find that it's a fascinating thing because you've created a microcosm of humanity. Because with the 30- or 40-thousand people that are left, the stakes are so high in every single thing that happens, that the crossing of the line becomes something that would happen under circumstances that aren't normally -- that humanity is not normally subject to.
| |
|
| |
| [00:53:20]
| |
|
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': I'm continually fascinated with the aspect of the show that talks about how truly reduced the human population is. And that they make decisions for 50-thousand people (or 40- or whatever it is now) that they would not make for four billion. The Laura Roslin "I'm going to ban abortion" decision is born of that idea. Of, OK, what is the specific response to this circumstance that they're going to make. And that there's like the real interest you can see how the lines have become and how they get blurred and my whole rationale for the course of the first season, even though they didn't quite go down this road, is, in the bible if you've read the bible, it was, into the first season Adama's going to put Laura in jail. He's going to institute a military coup. Because Laura is cracking down on the Fleet to the point where he's had to step in. And I was fascinated from the beginning with the idea that in this circumstance, people are going to behave differently on some level. They're going to go to ground a little bit more and they're going to get really sort of primal and sort of make moves, and the show's going to be about whether those moves are appropriate and what that means. What does it mean as a people if you make those moves, if you do these things, how does it affect who you are.
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': I think, myself, that that's the big revelation of our series and our show. In the sense that looking at the original, that never had any, um, any worry or dramatization between the military and the civilian. And look at it...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Well, they did...
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk>
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': Look at it, they had the Quorum of Twelve, they were all flunkies... and there was Baltar who was part of it who at that time, everything you did you knew that it was for the Cylons and the Cylon...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': The old show had the superstructure that was interesting. It was interesting that there was a civilian authority that was in opposition to Adama. They just never quite ... But they had the structure.
| |
|
| |
| [00:55:19]
| |
|
| |
|
| ==Hour Two== | | ==Hour Two== |
|
| |
| [01:00:09]
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': The ships, basically, are sort of remote from one another...
| |
|
| |
| '''???''': Autonomous states, that is.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': There's no real television. There's sort of radio communication and messages that go back and forth. But there's a sense of distance between all the people in the fleet. Which implies and feels viscerally like a large nation of people. And suddenly the forms of government and the way they treat it and what they can get away with, becomes much like we see it on TV. This is the way the Presidency functions. It's a press conference, it's a room, it's a woman with flags, it's certain forms that are setting you up and setting a distance and getting away from that problem of, well yeah, couldn't anybody just walk up to Laura and say "you know what? what you're doing is kind of f-ked up."
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': We're isolated, but anonymity is still a problem in the world that we've created. I'm very aware that whenever my character meets a brand-new character, that there's no way my character is anonymous to anyone.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': It's very difficult.
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': There's no way.
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis'''?: With fifty thousand people?
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': No way. The admiral's son?
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': But you would still...
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk>
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': So the story of Lee goes to the bar and meets some woman...
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': Exactly. And that's why a story like "Black Market" doesn't quite work.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': I know! One of the many problems with "Black Market".
| |
|
| |
| '''Sheppard'''?: Well, you know, all bimbos!
| |
|
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': We're going to get to like the fourth question out of 175. You'll like this one. How much are the actors allowed to influence their characters on the show?
| |
|
| |
|
| ==Hour Three== | | ==Hour Three== |
|
| |
| [02:18:27]
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': I really loved "Water". I loved the premise behind it, I loved the ideas behind it, I loved the things that you cut out of the original thing when there was a meeting of all of us together and somebody went, "Wait a minute. Are you saying that actually to get into one of these water tanks, you can actually do it" and then it was your line, you were like, it was totally impossible, a human being can not get inside one of the water tanks.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': It was the difference between the TV series and a play. It's like, I wanted it to be theater and it wasn't theater. And if it was theater I could have done the script that I wrote. But as I was writing it I was sort of going, "this isn't fair, this isn't about sitting in the theater and listening to these people talk for an hour". I started to lose faith in the premise of what I had. Instead of taking a season -- which was the plan -- for Sharon to realize that she was a Cylon -- I was going to play the whole first season...
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': You took an episode...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': I took an episode and I did it in the first moments. I got into that script and I sat down and started writing the teleplay and I went...
| |
|
| |
| '''Penikett'''?: You're too hard on yourself...
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk>
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': ...jeopardy, and...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Sharon is wet and she's been in a tank.
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': That was great! What are you talking about? That was...
| |
|
| |
| '''Sheppard'''?: Was that your cookie-jar moment?
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': And there were so many more instances for her to go on...
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk>
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': In hindsight, could you have made something more interesting by keeping Sharon dry?
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': I wish I could have. I wish on some level...I wish I had been able to sustain the idea that she did know who she was for the first season. I wish I'd been able to, like, not play that at all... I kind of wish that I'd been able to pull off the idea that you, the audience, know that she's a Cylon and she doesn't even know it, and every week you're watching, going...
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber'''?: There's a different question which I can't ask you on this podcast, but that doesn't matter. But what are the other instances where you felt that the show goes to an area which you're not...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': I think I have mixed-feelings about almost every single one-off episode except for "33".
| |
|
| |
| '''Sheppard''': Every single episode aside from "33"?
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': The ones that are not tied directly to the mythology I have more conflicted feelings about. Because...
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber'''?: Mythology? What do you mean by that?
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': The continuing story...
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': What about "Hero" this year?
| |
|
| |
| '''Sheppard''': I liked "Hero".
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': I'm OK with "Hero"... Yeah, "Hero" falls in that category for me. I think of it as a single. That's a good single. We did that show. But it doesn't affect me. It doesn't grab me in a way. It doesn't have meaning...
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': 33 is the truly perfect stand-alone episode. The other ones are always the finales. "Kobol's Last Gleaming..." The finales are the most satisfying because you've got the full ensemble...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': The whole "Pegasus" arc. From the moment she shows up until the moment she dies, Admiral Cain...
| |
|
| |
| [02:21:52]
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': I like tying in the world. I like making it about the world...
| |
|
| |
| '''Sheppard''': It moves at a different speed when you do that, doesn't it, Ron? It seems to move at a very different speed...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': See, I like the intercut. From "33" I started falling in love with the intercut of the ministories, going from one to the other and advancing the show just from these little slices of each person's life.
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': One impassioned plea -- don't intercut scenes that are actually scenes...
| |
|
| |
| [...]
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': It's not always the right...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Jamie wants us to re-cut the whole series!
| |
|
| |
| [02:23:05]
| |
|
| |
| [02:28:15]
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Tahmoh, is there anything you'd like to do on the show or get away with? What would you like to get away with, Helo, as a character? Go up and smack Adama in the head, sleep with Starbuck, or whatever...
| |
|
| |
| <laughter and crosstalk>
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': How many people in this room would like to sleep with Starbuck, raise your hands? There's a majority.
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': Not me. Grace, maybe.
| |
|
| |
| '''Penikett''': To be honest with you I think it would be interesting to see Helo really lose his temper.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Really lose his temper. He's never *really* lost his temper.
| |
|
| |
| '''Penikett''': No. We haven't seen that yet. I think that would be interesting. What I'd like to do? I'd love to see -- like I've said before -- we've got such an incredible case we've gone three seasons -- there are some actors, some incredibly talented actors who are good friends of mine who I'd love to share a scene with. I'd love to...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Who have you not done a scene with?
| |
|
| |
| '''Penikett''': I haven't done a scene with this man!
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Have you not done a scene with Baltar?
| |
|
| |
| '''Penikett''': The only scene I've done with this man that's actually had dialogue is -- You, in the crowd. Aren't you Gaius Baltar? That was in the f-ing miniseries. That's it.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Really! That's interesting.
| |
|
| |
| '''Penikett''': Tricia Helfer. Neve. In fact I got to kiss her beautiful lips in the miniseries. Same thing, though.
| |
|
| |
| '''Callis''': You kissed her lips!
| |
|
| |
| <crosstalk> That's a scene!!
| |
|
| |
| '''Terry''': At the end of the day, they're all men.
| |
|
| |
| [02:29:44]
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Jamie, has Lee Adama really lost his temper?
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': I've tried to on so many occasions in the rushes, as you've probably seen.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': But has he? When's the moment where he's lost his temper, for you?
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': Yeah. Lee Adama, the problem about Lee is you're forever...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Have you taken the character to that moment, to where you feel like he's really lost it?
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': Every time I feel like I've really lost it. In the miniseries I felt like I'd almost really lost it. When I saw my dad for the first time and he's just this...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': He said Zak didn't belong...
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': He's just this Miami Vice guy, he doesn't look at Don Johnson and so he never looks at me, and I shout at him and I thought I'd lost it then. But I hadn't, because he was an adolescent then. And then the character... He's growing with me, to be honest. And you said what's changed in the time of the shoot, and what's changed is me, is Jamie, with the character.
| |
|
| |
| [02:31:02]
| |
| '''Bamber''': I've tried to sort of take that. And when I look back at the miniseries, I do see an adolescent. I see someone desperate for rebellion at whatever cost, trying to make his mark, trying to sort of say... and walking into a room with his dad and picking a fight with his dad. It's that guy from Miami Vice.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': In 20 years, you'll be how old?
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': I -- Jamie, I'll be 53 in 20 years.
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': You'll be in your 50s. How do you want to look back at this experience? What do you hope that you'll say?
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': I don't hope. I know what I'll say. These are my formative years. In a really strange way these are my most formative years. Like on a very personal level. On a working level, I've learned more about what I do, I've learnt more from the actors I work with, from you and David and how I've felt involved as a valued member of a creative team. This is the most special time of my life and I'll look back on this... I want to go back to when I've tried to lose my temper!
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': Today, I actually lost my temper for the first time probably in the character...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': I saw you lose your temper and I was surprised, I was like "wow"...
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': I've always been pushing to go there. I've been pushing against the writing, I think, against maybe even myself. Because the thing about playing the good guy...
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': The toughest role in the show.
| |
|
| |
| '''Bamber''': Well, you always get put back in your box. Like, no matter what radical things you go through you get put back in your box. It's not like Gaius, who can go to like a Cylon baseship and hang out there for a while or go and be a leader of... I always get put back in my box. And I know that. And so what you did for me straight off is write me in a way that Richard Hatch never... as someone with a complicated relationship with his father, a complicated relationship with the military. Someone who's not happy in his skin, right from the get-go. But as far a rebellion goes, how far can that rebellion go, in a limited context. You know, I bang off the walls, I point a gun at my superior, I get in jail with the President, I'm a fugitive...
| |
|
| |
| [02:33:45]
| |
|
| |
| '''RDM''': Do you feel a frustration because you can't let it go?
| |
