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replying to if necessary. (See [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page]].) | replying to if necessary. (See [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page]].) | ||
Please add new archivals to the bottom of [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy/Archive02|Archive 02]]. Thank you. --[[User: | Please add new archivals to the bottom of [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy/Archive02|Archive 02]]. Thank you. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 23 September 2005 (EDT) | ||
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And one final thing: Spoiling from the scripts does not even make much sense - as the first poster on this page points out; and the audio comments imply the same. So my guess would be that spoiling not-yet aired shows will put off users from using this site, which is hardly a good thing, and it doesn't make much sense in the first place to do so, because the scripts will not air the way they were written, anyway. So I really would suggest a <u> No spoilers for unaired shows</u> policy. -- [[User:Still not king|Still not king]] 12:32, 28 August 2005 (EDT) | And one final thing: Spoiling from the scripts does not even make much sense - as the first poster on this page points out; and the audio comments imply the same. So my guess would be that spoiling not-yet aired shows will put off users from using this site, which is hardly a good thing, and it doesn't make much sense in the first place to do so, because the scripts will not air the way they were written, anyway. So I really would suggest a <u> No spoilers for unaired shows</u> policy. -- [[User:Still not king|Still not king]] 12:32, 28 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
::I agree. We gain very little by jumping the gun on upcoming episode spoilers - for example, I didn't need to know that spoileriffic note on the episode summary for [[Resurrection Ship]] at all. There's no reason not to be patient with these things. I do not agree, however, with a 24 hour injunction against posting episode details - we should be able to start wiki-ing as soon as it airs in our respective timezones. If we want to stay spoiler free on the west coast, we can always just not log on during the three hour window. Likewise, when the brits start getting Season 2, Part II before we do, we shouldn't force ourselves to wait for the U.S. airings. --[[User: | ::I agree. We gain very little by jumping the gun on upcoming episode spoilers - for example, I didn't need to know that spoileriffic note on the episode summary for [[Resurrection Ship]] at all. There's no reason not to be patient with these things. I do not agree, however, with a 24 hour injunction against posting episode details - we should be able to start wiki-ing as soon as it airs in our respective timezones. If we want to stay spoiler free on the west coast, we can always just not log on during the three hour window. Likewise, when the brits start getting Season 2, Part II before we do, we shouldn't force ourselves to wait for the U.S. airings. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:45, 28 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
:::I was intentionally proposing ''just'' 24 hours - that is what it might take to get to see the show if you have to get it by P2P, and in the meantime, one might still want to check out something -- not the episode summary, of course, but a plain page about a character. It's a minor part of my proposal, though -- the important one is No spoilers of unaired shows. -- [[User:Still not king|Still not king]] 20:13, 28 August 2005 (EDT) | :::I was intentionally proposing ''just'' 24 hours - that is what it might take to get to see the show if you have to get it by P2P, and in the meantime, one might still want to check out something -- not the episode summary, of course, but a plain page about a character. It's a minor part of my proposal, though -- the important one is No spoilers of unaired shows. -- [[User:Still not king|Still not king]] 20:13, 28 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
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::::I really like the idea of not posting regarding unaired shows. There's no way to avoid spoilers for shows that have aired already, but the show doesn't really exist until it's aired, in a way (insofar that it might be changed). I also really like the idea of a 24-hour wait period after the first (and thus, British, right?) air time. A day isn't that long, really, and I'm not sure about anyone else, but these episodes make my mind race and I'd probably be too excited if I went straight from the sofa to the computer after watching. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:35, 29 August 2005 (EDT) | ::::I really like the idea of not posting regarding unaired shows. There's no way to avoid spoilers for shows that have aired already, but the show doesn't really exist until it's aired, in a way (insofar that it might be changed). I also really like the idea of a 24-hour wait period after the first (and thus, British, right?) air time. A day isn't that long, really, and I'm not sure about anyone else, but these episodes make my mind race and I'd probably be too excited if I went straight from the sofa to the computer after watching. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:35, 29 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
:::::One of the nice things about the wiki system is that if you post something innacurate or overzealous, someone else can come along and tone it down a bit. I'm starting a vote. --[[User: | :::::One of the nice things about the wiki system is that if you post something innacurate or overzealous, someone else can come along and tone it down a bit. I'm starting a vote. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:03, 29 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
:This is rediculous. You come onto a site that has a quite obvious spoiler policy on the front fage, you go to read about upcoming episodes, and then you cry about being spoiled. Gee, obviously the best way to solve this is to stop people from posting new information. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 08:51, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | :This is rediculous. You come onto a site that has a quite obvious spoiler policy on the front fage, you go to read about upcoming episodes, and then you cry about being spoiled. Gee, obviously the best way to solve this is to stop people from posting new information. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 08:51, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
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:The whole debate is a bit odd to me. "Spoilers" by definition have to do with un-aired episodes, and anything written about un-aired episodes is, by definition, speculation. That speculation may be more informed or less, but it's still just that, ''speculation''. You have to watch the episode to find out what actually happens. If anything maybe there should be a reminder on un-aired ep pages that the information may or may not be accurate. Back in the day, there was another sci-fi show, "Babylon 5" which had/has a website much like this one - "The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5." The Lurker's Guide, while being an accurate and detailed guide to the show, was also a haven for every kind of spoilage and speculation imaginable, which I and many others found only enhanced our enjoyment of the show. --[[User:Astarte|Astarte]] 05:22, 3 September 2005 (EDT) | :The whole debate is a bit odd to me. "Spoilers" by definition have to do with un-aired episodes, and anything written about un-aired episodes is, by definition, speculation. That speculation may be more informed or less, but it's still just that, ''speculation''. You have to watch the episode to find out what actually happens. If anything maybe there should be a reminder on un-aired ep pages that the information may or may not be accurate. Back in the day, there was another sci-fi show, "Babylon 5" which had/has a website much like this one - "The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5." The Lurker's Guide, while being an accurate and detailed guide to the show, was also a haven for every kind of spoilage and speculation imaginable, which I and many others found only enhanced our enjoyment of the show. --[[User:Astarte|Astarte]] 05:22, 3 September 2005 (EDT) | ||
::I was also a fan of the lurker's guide. I think an important difference here is that the production staff of B5 (ie, JMS) were very tight-lipped and conscious of avoiding big spoilers. The staff of the Re-imagined series have been much looser, and credible spoilers for various production details have been leaked far and wide throughout the first half of the second season. --[[User: | ::I was also a fan of the lurker's guide. I think an important difference here is that the production staff of B5 (ie, JMS) were very tight-lipped and conscious of avoiding big spoilers. The staff of the Re-imagined series have been much looser, and credible spoilers for various production details have been leaked far and wide throughout the first half of the second season. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:25, 3 September 2005 (EDT) | ||
== Spoiler Warning == | == Spoiler Warning == | ||
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How about episode pages that have not been aired yet get a spoiler tag, so that people that can contribute to them knowing full well that they'll likely be spoiled? Same can be done with character and event pages, so that information introduced to them from episodes not yet aired can also be used on this Wiki without fear of spoiling those that do not wish it. Thoughts?-- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:39, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | How about episode pages that have not been aired yet get a spoiler tag, so that people that can contribute to them knowing full well that they'll likely be spoiled? Same can be done with character and event pages, so that information introduced to them from episodes not yet aired can also be used on this Wiki without fear of spoiling those that do not wish it. Thoughts?-- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:39, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
:I'm afraid it wouldn't do me much good, since I read the diffs on everything on the recent edits page anyway. Maybe we could allow spoilers on episode summary pages but discourage them elsewhere? Avoiding the episode summaries isn't very hard. --[[User: | :I'm afraid it wouldn't do me much good, since I read the diffs on everything on the recent edits page anyway. Maybe we could allow spoilers on episode summary pages but discourage them elsewhere? Avoiding the episode summaries isn't very hard. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:11, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
I found this problem with the Pegasus ep and related data. I wanted to keep the Fall of the Twelve Colonies page accurate with what we knew about surviving Battlestars, but this is still a spoiler, so the data there is left a bit vague unless someone digs for it. Still, a spoiler is a spoiler. The talk page would satisfy both spoiler-hunter and seeker on an episode article. We'd just need to add a "Spoiler" topic there, and note to people that if you are going to see an episode page for a show that hasn't aired, you are asking for it, literally. At least the talk page has an extra layer for avoiders to have, but because of the nature of this wiki, eliminating spoilers takes away a lot of the research fun. Data's gotta go somewhere and we can't commit the juicy bits for the main page to memory until the ep is aired. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:40, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | I found this problem with the Pegasus ep and related data. I wanted to keep the Fall of the Twelve Colonies page accurate with what we knew about surviving Battlestars, but this is still a spoiler, so the data there is left a bit vague unless someone digs for it. Still, a spoiler is a spoiler. The talk page would satisfy both spoiler-hunter and seeker on an episode article. We'd just need to add a "Spoiler" topic there, and note to people that if you are going to see an episode page for a show that hasn't aired, you are asking for it, literally. At least the talk page has an extra layer for avoiders to have, but because of the nature of this wiki, eliminating spoilers takes away a lot of the research fun. Data's gotta go somewhere and we can't commit the juicy bits for the main page to memory until the ep is aired. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:40, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
::This is going to be awkward, but I feel like we should add this as an option in the vote. Also adding a note on approval voting. --[[User: | ::This is going to be awkward, but I feel like we should add this as an option in the vote. Also adding a note on approval voting. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:53, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
:::I dislike the thought of having to move massive amounts of text. So far, I've been avoiding pages to do with unaired episodes. That's easy enough. My main concern is someone clicking through and wondering, "Who the ''heck'' is Gina?", thinking it's some pilot who's name they missed or some small character. Then they read about an episode they didn't want to. Or, in another case, someone reading all about Lee and the information going on, at the end, past the most recent episode. I think keeping character pages clear is the better idea. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:01, 1 September 2005 (EDT) | :::I dislike the thought of having to move massive amounts of text. So far, I've been avoiding pages to do with unaired episodes. That's easy enough. My main concern is someone clicking through and wondering, "Who the ''heck'' is Gina?", thinking it's some pilot who's name they missed or some small character. Then they read about an episode they didn't want to. Or, in another case, someone reading all about Lee and the information going on, at the end, past the most recent episode. I think keeping character pages clear is the better idea. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:01, 1 September 2005 (EDT) | ||
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Then, after the episode airs, we can simply merge the contents together from the spoiler page into the main page of the article in question. Just my view. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 12:48, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | Then, after the episode airs, we can simply merge the contents together from the spoiler page into the main page of the article in question. Just my view. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 12:48, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
:This sounds like a lot of work. I actually agree with Spencerian that anyone who clicks on the episode page for an unaired episode is explicitly asking for it. Additionally, those are easy edits to avoid reading. I'm going to go and complicate things now... --[[User: | :This sounds like a lot of work. I actually agree with Spencerian that anyone who clicks on the episode page for an unaired episode is explicitly asking for it. Additionally, those are easy edits to avoid reading. I'm going to go and complicate things now... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:53, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
:: It does, but my intent was to just throw this out there to see what everyone else thought. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:01, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | :: It does, but my intent was to just throw this out there to see what everyone else thought. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:01, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
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===No spoilers except for episode pages=== | ===No spoilers except for episode pages=== | ||
# --[[User: | # --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:53, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
# --[[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:04, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | # --[[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:04, 31 August 2005 (EDT) | ||
# --Zareck Rocks 15:00, 31 August 2005 (EDT)-- | # --Zareck Rocks 15:00, 31 August 2005 (EDT)-- | ||
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When does this vote close? The vote is pretty close, but it's been up for a while. I don't want to propose it close right... NOW, because it could look like I'm pushing an agenda (as of this writring one of my acceptable categories is winning), but if we don't make this call ahead of time, it could always look that way. Who has the final say on policy like this, anyway? Is it Joe? If so, does he get to say when the vote ends? I'm not demanding action... just andwers. ^_^ --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:19, 12 September 2005 (EDT) | When does this vote close? The vote is pretty close, but it's been up for a while. I don't want to propose it close right... NOW, because it could look like I'm pushing an agenda (as of this writring one of my acceptable categories is winning), but if we don't make this call ahead of time, it could always look that way. Who has the final say on policy like this, anyway? Is it Joe? If so, does he get to say when the vote ends? I'm not demanding action... just andwers. ^_^ --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:19, 12 September 2005 (EDT) | ||
:Of the three leading options, they're all within a vote of each other. I don't believe that constitutes an acceptable margin of victory to call it. If a consensus fails to emerge, we should probably throw out the results (which means we retain the status quo, ie, all spoilers permitted) and engage in another round of debate. I say this all with an eye toward pissing as few people off as possible, although at the moment the issue appears quite contentious. --[[User: | :Of the three leading options, they're all within a vote of each other. I don't believe that constitutes an acceptable margin of victory to call it. If a consensus fails to emerge, we should probably throw out the results (which means we retain the status quo, ie, all spoilers permitted) and engage in another round of debate. I say this all with an eye toward pissing as few people off as possible, although at the moment the issue appears quite contentious. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:27, 12 September 2005 (EDT) | ||
::Another round of debate? I would object, but there are only 2 more new episodes, and after that we have a few months to debate. I *would* like to get this decided soon, but it appears there isn't a majority. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 22:36, 13 September 2005 (EDT) | ::Another round of debate? I would object, but there are only 2 more new episodes, and after that we have a few months to debate. I *would* like to get this decided soon, but it appears there isn't a majority. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 22:36, 13 September 2005 (EDT) | ||
:::Unfortunately, if there were an obvious compromise position it would have revealed its self by now. We could possibly call for a re-vote among the three tied "winners" using a [[Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_Choice_Voting|ranked voting system]]. --[[User: | :::Unfortunately, if there were an obvious compromise position it would have revealed its self by now. We could possibly call for a re-vote among the three tied "winners" using a [[Wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_Choice_Voting|ranked voting system]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:52, 13 September 2005 (EDT) | ||
:::: I kinda thought "Spoilers on Episode Pages only" was a compromise and voted accordingly, but that's obviously subjective. I like the ranked voting idea. I've had a positive experience using what's called a Smith//Minmax system. Note I said "using" though. I have only the slightest idea how those are actually set up. My main concern, really, is character pages. I don't care if Gina has a page now, or not, but I'd rather not have a bit about how Kara will get pregnant by ''Felix'' in three episodes. If you take my meaning. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:51, 13 September 2005 (EDT) | :::: I kinda thought "Spoilers on Episode Pages only" was a compromise and voted accordingly, but that's obviously subjective. I like the ranked voting idea. I've had a positive experience using what's called a Smith//Minmax system. Note I said "using" though. I have only the slightest idea how those are actually set up. My main concern, really, is character pages. I don't care if Gina has a page now, or not, but I'd rather not have a bit about how Kara will get pregnant by ''Felix'' in three episodes. If you take my meaning. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:51, 13 September 2005 (EDT) | ||
::::: Yes, but you're one of only about three people who gave approval to both Episode pages and post-airdate. If the other voters were willing to take one or the other, I assume they'd have said so. --[[User: | ::::: Yes, but you're one of only about three people who gave approval to both Episode pages and post-airdate. If the other voters were willing to take one or the other, I assume they'd have said so. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:55, 13 September 2005 (EDT) | ||
:::: I agree with Peter, a solution would have come up by now. Thus, I am officially ending the vote -- though the issue is, by not means, settled. Instead, I have come up with a [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy/Compromise|draft of a revised spoiler policy]] (a compromise, if you will) that I would like to run by our users. I believe it will help piss off as few people as humanly possible. :-) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:56, 13 September 2005 (EDT) | :::: I agree with Peter, a solution would have come up by now. Thus, I am officially ending the vote -- though the issue is, by not means, settled. Instead, I have come up with a [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy/Compromise|draft of a revised spoiler policy]] (a compromise, if you will) that I would like to run by our users. I believe it will help piss off as few people as humanly possible. :-) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:56, 13 September 2005 (EDT) | ||