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{{archive-header | {{archive-header | ||
| archivenumber = | | archivenumber = 01 | ||
| number = 1 | | number = 1 | ||
| start = September 29th, 2005 | | start = September 29th, 2005 | ||
| end = April 9th, 2006 | | end = April 9th, 2006 | ||
| items = {{archive-item| | | items = {{archive-item|01|Citation Consistency}} {{archive-item|01|Request for name change}} {{archive-item|01|BSG: The Magazine}} {{archive-item|01|Citation Format}} {{archive-item|01|Character Ages}} {{archive-item|01|Railguns}} {{archive-item|01|Twelve Lords of Kobol}} {{archive-item|01|Magazine Content}} {{archive-item|01|To Do}} {{archive-item|01|BSG Books}} {{archive-item|end=Y|01|Sources namespace}} | ||
|}} | |}} | ||
{{archive-header | {{archive-header | ||
| archivenumber = | | archivenumber = 02 | ||
| number = 2 | | number = 2 | ||
| start = April 19th, 2006 | | start = April 19th, 2006 | ||
| end = May 9th, 2006 | | end = May 9th, 2006 | ||
| items = {{archive-item| | | items = {{archive-item|02|Koenigrules / Hollywood North Report}} {{archive-item|02|On anonymous sources}} {{archive-item|end=Y|02|The Rumor Vote}} | ||
|}} | |}} | ||
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* [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad#Characters with Non-Canon First Names|The case of "Joyce" Hadrian]] | * [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad#Characters with Non-Canon First Names|The case of "Joyce" Hadrian]] | ||
I wasn't 100% sure that the "Joyce" bit needed to be pulled, but I thought I'd note it so somebody more confident of the application of the rules might smite it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:23, 10 May 2006 (CDT) | I wasn't 100% sure that the "Joyce" bit needed to be pulled, but I thought I'd note it so somebody more confident of the application of the rules might smite it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:23, 10 May 2006 (CDT) | ||
:It's been listed for months, and nobody's offered a source. We can probably smite it. --[[User: | :It's been listed for months, and nobody's offered a source. We can probably smite it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:32, 10 May 2006 (CDT) | ||
::So it sounds like this is more of one of those "shoot on sight" situations rather than the elaborate recon, paint it with a laser, and drop a laser-guided "smart bomb" on it type of operations. So there won't be a "articles with anonymous/unofficial sources" categories or anything, as (hopefully) it would quickly be rendered obsolete? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:40, 10 May 2006 (CDT) | ::So it sounds like this is more of one of those "shoot on sight" situations rather than the elaborate recon, paint it with a laser, and drop a laser-guided "smart bomb" on it type of operations. So there won't be a "articles with anonymous/unofficial sources" categories or anything, as (hopefully) it would quickly be rendered obsolete? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:40, 10 May 2006 (CDT) | ||
:::Well, as you're aware, I like to extend new contributors the benefit of the doubt. So "shoot on sight" isn't quite right - it might still be useful to keep a section of this page for tracking dubious submissions. --[[User: | :::Well, as you're aware, I like to extend new contributors the benefit of the doubt. So "shoot on sight" isn't quite right - it might still be useful to keep a section of this page for tracking dubious submissions. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:45, 10 May 2006 (CDT) | ||
::::Concur. While I did go through and outright delete the episode pages that contained "info" from unofficial sources, there may be things that slip through here are there. I'm not opposed to having a list kept here, or even at the Quorum for such things. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 12:59, 10 May 2006 (CDT) | ::::Concur. While I did go through and outright delete the episode pages that contained "info" from unofficial sources, there may be things that slip through here are there. I'm not opposed to having a list kept here, or even at the Quorum for such things. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 12:59, 10 May 2006 (CDT) | ||
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:#You are correct that SkyOne's bios have been contradicted from time to time, as has some of SciFi's material. Our current policy is to defer to aired information, but to permit the use of other sources where no conflict exists. Do you object to this? | :#You are correct that SkyOne's bios have been contradicted from time to time, as has some of SciFi's material. Our current policy is to defer to aired information, but to permit the use of other sources where no conflict exists. Do you object to this? | ||
:#Although some portions have been discredited, other parts of the SkyOne bios have been born out by laters events - particularly, Thrace's father as a musician. It seems likely that the bios originated with information from the series bible, or at least benefited from the input of the writing staff - that is to say, they may not just be corporate fan fiction, but seem to have at least some reference value. | :#Although some portions have been discredited, other parts of the SkyOne bios have been born out by laters events - particularly, Thrace's father as a musician. It seems likely that the bios originated with information from the series bible, or at least benefited from the input of the writing staff - that is to say, they may not just be corporate fan fiction, but seem to have at least some reference value. | ||
:--[[User: | :--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:58, 21 May 2006 (CDT) | ||
::Oh I don't think there are corporate fan fiction, I just think it's based on extremely early material which might not even be from the series bible (and even the series bible has been contradicted when new stories required it). We might *note* within the William Adama article that "Mother: Evelyn" (clickable reference number leading to bottom of page)--->source, SkyOne season 1 bio; not necessarily canonical. ---->But my point is, I don't think it justifies an article. And I also don't think Starbuck's father's tentative name should be used a lot, just as a trivia note on the Starbuck article. It's like the Miniseries novelization thing: we got hung up on that name the author made up for her, Natasi, as a matter of convenience, until it came to the point that it was apparent that no one else really called her that. My point being, we use a term of convenience, we just reinforce it. No, I don't think SkyOne's info is entirely accurate, as it was taken down. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 20:21, 21 May 2006 (CDT) | ::Oh I don't think there are corporate fan fiction, I just think it's based on extremely early material which might not even be from the series bible (and even the series bible has been contradicted when new stories required it). We might *note* within the William Adama article that "Mother: Evelyn" (clickable reference number leading to bottom of page)--->source, SkyOne season 1 bio; not necessarily canonical. ---->But my point is, I don't think it justifies an article. And I also don't think Starbuck's father's tentative name should be used a lot, just as a trivia note on the Starbuck article. It's like the Miniseries novelization thing: we got hung up on that name the author made up for her, Natasi, as a matter of convenience, until it came to the point that it was apparent that no one else really called her that. My point being, we use a term of convenience, we just reinforce it. No, I don't think SkyOne's info is entirely accurate, as it was taken down. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 20:21, 21 May 2006 (CDT) | ||
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::::::::With that, I'm more for removing these bios, as they are now just as unsourced as the Zoic information on "other" battlestars like ''Galactica.'' With the series and its characters sufficiently matured, I find little use for these bios; we know far more about them from aired than unaired data, and this stuff can no longer be verified and sometimes conflicts. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:10, 20 June 2006 (CDT) | ::::::::With that, I'm more for removing these bios, as they are now just as unsourced as the Zoic information on "other" battlestars like ''Galactica.'' With the series and its characters sufficiently matured, I find little use for these bios; we know far more about them from aired than unaired data, and this stuff can no longer be verified and sometimes conflicts. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:10, 20 June 2006 (CDT) | ||
:::::::::Please refer to our previous discussion at [[Talk:Laura_Roslin#Source_for_SkyOne.3F]], which contains a link to the best original source currently available. --[[User: | :::::::::Please refer to our previous discussion at [[Talk:Laura_Roslin#Source_for_SkyOne.3F]], which contains a link to the best original source currently available. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:32, 20 June 2006 (CDT) | ||
::::::::::If that's the best source, let's expunge the information. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]<sup>([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]])</sup> 13:45, 20 June 2006 (CDT) | ::::::::::If that's the best source, let's expunge the information. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]<sup>([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]])</sup> 13:45, 20 June 2006 (CDT) | ||
:::::::::::I recall seeing the information at Sky One, but I understand why you think personal testimony is flimsy here. --[[User: | :::::::::::I recall seeing the information at Sky One, but I understand why you think personal testimony is flimsy here. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:48, 20 June 2006 (CDT) | ||
::::::::::::This brings up a interesting question. What to do when an official source goes away? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:25, 20 June 2006 (CDT) | ::::::::::::This brings up a interesting question. What to do when an official source goes away? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:25, 20 June 2006 (CDT) | ||
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===Deletion=== | ===Deletion=== | ||
I saw that Steelviper just deleted [[Sources:Sky One Profile of William Adama]]. I don't think this discussion reached a consensus to do this, but I wouldn't object if SV wanted to open a straw poll. --[[User: | I saw that Steelviper just deleted [[Sources:Sky One Profile of William Adama]]. I don't think this discussion reached a consensus to do this, but I wouldn't object if SV wanted to open a straw poll. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:22, 28 June 2006 (CDT) | ||
:Actually, I deleted the "Sources" article, based not on this discussion (which, I admit, I hadn't been following that closely), but more on the individual instance of not having a source for that particular bio. The "Sources" article was almost an orphan in reality anyway, as I had just created it in order to save space on Spence's demo of a more concise William Adama. The "actual" main space reference was located in "William Adama" itself. I'll happily restore it, though, if that's what people want. I didn't mean to step on the toes of the mujahadin. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:31, 28 June 2006 (CDT) | :Actually, I deleted the "Sources" article, based not on this discussion (which, I admit, I hadn't been following that closely), but more on the individual instance of not having a source for that particular bio. The "Sources" article was almost an orphan in reality anyway, as I had just created it in order to save space on Spence's demo of a more concise William Adama. The "actual" main space reference was located in "William Adama" itself. I'll happily restore it, though, if that's what people want. I didn't mean to step on the toes of the mujahadin. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:31, 28 June 2006 (CDT) | ||
::Well, I see your point, but I think the first thing to do is figure out a coherent policy toward the purported SkyOne info. After that, we can apply a consistant policy to all six bios and any pages citing them. I wonder if Bradley Thompson could help us confirm them in the absence of any wayback archives? --[[User: | ::Well, I see your point, but I think the first thing to do is figure out a coherent policy toward the purported SkyOne info. After that, we can apply a consistant policy to all six bios and any pages citing them. I wonder if Bradley Thompson could help us confirm them in the absence of any wayback archives? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:34, 28 June 2006 (CDT) | ||
:::Now that the bio info is back in the William Adama article... do we need the "Sources" article? It seems like we should either transclude the "Sources" article or link to it from William Adama (with just a quick summary blurb on the main article) or dump the "Sources" article and let William Adama serve as the source. I'm just looking to get rid of the redundancy at this point. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:38, 28 June 2006 (CDT) | :::Now that the bio info is back in the William Adama article... do we need the "Sources" article? It seems like we should either transclude the "Sources" article or link to it from William Adama (with just a quick summary blurb on the main article) or dump the "Sources" article and let William Adama serve as the source. I'm just looking to get rid of the redundancy at this point. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:38, 28 June 2006 (CDT) | ||
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Shane write: | Shane write: | ||
:''If you use this method, please make sure the <nowiki><references/></nowiki> tag is flanked like so: <nowiki><div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div></nowiki>'' | :''If you use this method, please make sure the <nowiki><references/></nowiki> tag is flanked like so: <nowiki><div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div></nowiki>'' | ||
I believe that this font size can be controlled in the stylesheet, which would be a better choice than encoding the style information on a per-page basis. --[[User: | I believe that this font size can be controlled in the stylesheet, which would be a better choice than encoding the style information on a per-page basis. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:06, 3 June 2006 (CDT) | ||
::I'm creating it in my CSS sheet for the new style but until then it is not active. <tt>class = "ref"</tt> --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 13:19, 3 June 2006 (CDT) | ::I'm creating it in my CSS sheet for the new style but until then it is not active. <tt>class = "ref"</tt> --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 13:19, 3 June 2006 (CDT) | ||
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:"The requirement in using either plausible speculation or logical deduction is that all contributors '''must''' cite credible sources that support their speculation." | :"The requirement in using either plausible speculation or logical deduction is that all contributors '''must''' cite credible sources that support their speculation." | ||
--Comments | --Comments? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:42, 11 September 2006 (CDT) | ||