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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Crossroads, Part II/Archive1"

From Battlestar Wiki, the free, open content Battlestar Galactica encyclopedia and episode guide
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:It's All Along the Watchtower, but I'm having trouble making edits right now. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:14, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
:It's All Along the Watchtower, but I'm having trouble making edits right now. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:14, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
::I just added it to the page. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:22, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
::I just added it to the page. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:22, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
Can we post the lyrics without a copyright violation?  There are some lines in the song that are certainly significant. 
Oh, and regarding the arguments on this board about the finale...I think you're missing the real point, which is the fact that Bob Dylan is a Cylon.  We should throw him out the airlock.-- [[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 18:24, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Revision as of 23:24, 28 March 2007

Promo Pics

Are here. Hard believe that's the last for Season 3. However, they may release a few more for this episode. At least there's the 2-hr movie between seasons. --FrankieG 20:03, 27 February 2007 (CST)

That promo pic of Six, Baltar, and Hera appears to be shot in the "Final Five" room. Anyone else notice this? Paulmooreparks 19:57, 28 February 2007 (CST)

Yes, indeed I did. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 20:02, 28 February 2007 (CST)
Baltar's been having visions of Six and Hera in the opera house since season 1, so it's not necessarily connected to the Final Five. Since this episode will reveal 1 or 4 of the Final Five depending on which interview you go by, there's a pretty good chance that it relates to them as well. -- Gordon Ecker 20:16, 28 February 2007 (CST)
Am I completely off-base in thinking that that's Virtual Baltar alongside Virtual Six? Because the other photos of that episode show the "real" Baltar still quite disheveled with a thick beard while that Baltar is clean-shaven, not unlike Caprica's Baltar. Didn't Ron Moore say something about the two alter-egos being key figures in the last episodes of the season? --Kahran 04:50, 3 March 2007 (CST)
Not really "off base", in fact I think that's the most popular theory in general. So unless we're all off base.....which is admitedly possible :P --Sauron18 07:37, 3 March 2007 (CST)
If they are able to interact with eachother it would have significant implications regarding their nature. -- Gordon Ecker 17:50, 7 March 2007 (CST)
The virtual Baltar normally wears the unique pinstripe suit from the Miniseries, which I don't see here. I do believe this is a visualization and that is Virtual Six, for the Opera House doesn't exist. If the two alter-egos do somehow directly interact, some Serious Shit will ensure, but damned if I can really glean what. This is as big of a season stumper as season 2's cliffhanger. And, no, Kara Thrace will NOT be one of the Five. But it may be, in my guess, one of these three, although they don't realize it: Dualla, Tigh, or Gaeta. I still hold exception to the fact that what Three saw may be the five priests of the Temple of Five, who just so happen to have incarnations in the current timeline. (Note the monkey that exited my anus and is waving at you). --Spencerian 15:44, 13 March 2007 (CDT)


Well, it's early, and I don't care to step on Slander's toes, but I have forseen an event in Crossroads, Part II. The top 5 American Idol contestants cameo as... THE FINAL FIVE! --BklynBruzer 18:06, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

  • I'd like to make a motion that all Predictions in Talk pages be deleted as they are assinine and serve no other purpose than to promote the person making the prediction. Predictions should be in Forums and chatrooms or discussion groups, not here.--Straycat0 12:29, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
    • Dude... they're friggin' jokes. No need to be so uptight. You're reminding me of Merv. --BklynBruzer 18:07, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
      • Motion denied. Bstone 12:04, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

OK. The purpose of a talk page is for brief discussions and questions about the article. Generally, the humorous "predictions" in other talk pages have not detracted from the talk page's purpose or grown in size, and honestly have given me a chuckle, although my feelings on the matter aren't the sole vote about it. Provided that we don't get into numerous predictions from many users to the talk page in some way, I don't see a problem with it at this time. If there's still a problem about it, a silly page could have a bulleted series of such humor if approved by consensus (although I doubt this would work, we're not a forum). Sometimes, predictions are fun and on-topic: See Talk:Exodus, Part II where I made a good guess. Now, what's considered "funny" is very subjective. I don't think BB's jest is nearly as humorous as, say, the shining white Final Five being revealed as the Jackson Five or something. Jokes are OK. If it's a bad one, ignore the poster. If a talk page gets too long, ask an admin to moderate if you can't get others to end a pointless or irrelevant topic. --Spencerian 13:00, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

Damn I should've thought of the Jackson Five... --20:10, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
Tito rules! On a more serious note, if people object to my predictions, I'll stop doing them. Honestly, this sort of in-joke is inevitable when an Internet community develops. In my opinion, it's healthy for us to not take things too seriously, or we turn into a bunch of elitists. (If anyone in the history of anything has ever needed a collective wedgie, it's Wikipedia's editing community.) Anyway, as there are currently two "Predictions" topics on this Talk page, I think I'll take the rest of the year off, until it comes time to speculate about the DVD-movie and season four. --Slander 14:19, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

the commercial

hey the commercial has anders voice syaing "yeah we're cylons" WTF --Snorkel378 21:07, 19 March 2007 (CDT)Snorkel378

I don't know whose voice it is, but the line is definitely "It's true, we're Cylons". -- Gordon Ecker 02:12, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
At first, I thought it was Anders speaking, just because his face appeared at the same moment. --Xenophon10k 12:26, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
Read the thing linked below. --BklynBruzer 12:41, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

Predictions-part 2

I was surfing on the internet, trying to find some spoilers (lol) for the 3rd season finale, and came across this baby: (huge spoilers, so don t go there if u don t wanna read em). So, the text reveals who are the 4 of the final 5. As we already know, without the websites help, some of the final five are living and working in the colonial fleet. The 4 that are in question have a past, and we even saw a few times their memories, and we know that they lived in the colonies for quite some time. That being said, the website isn’t really convincing. But then, we know that the final five are special. We don t know what they are, we could suppose that they are more than the other cylon models, much more. We could even think that they are some sort of gods, now that too being said, I can t help but to think that those final 5, being special could have been planted in the colonies before the attacks of the miniseries. There is also a thing about Starbuck and a thing about finding earth on the website. I don t know what are their sources but the text seems very interesting and gives some very interesting ideas. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DedMed (talk • contribs).

Many of the spoilers fit with what occurred in "Crossroads, Part II," but it brings up many new questions, too. If true, the information completely wrecks or substantially modifies what we thought Cylons were and when they came about. It should be an interesting episode, to say the least. --Spencerian 10:39, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
HOLY FRAKKIN FRAK! --BklynBruzer 12:54, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
The spoilers from part 1 were correct, adding some credibility. The really shocking part is that one of the alledged final five was around during the Cylon War (yes, you heard it right, the Galactica is a Cylon, I'm surprised no one made the connection when we've known that she has at least a dozen copies since the miniseries :D). -- Gordon Ecker 23:27, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
I kind of wish I hadn't read them, but I couldn't help myself. Goddamit! --Galactageek 12:26, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
Goddamnit is exactly the word. Goddamnit! --BklynBruzer 15:03, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

I took my comments about the spoliers out... but just so you know. if that link is true... and it's implied in the video teaser for this episode. I'm starting to see the show in shark infested waters. But I imagine everything is not what it seems. Especially with my homedog Col. Tigh. If he really is (spolier)... then I'm gonna start to lose interest in BSG for real. But honestly I think that is all a "misunderstanding" or perhaps some link to the final five... who I insist are NOT CYLONS! --Baltarstar 19:58, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

I'm sorry I can't resist posting again. Ok, the final Five, as I stated are not Cylons but are a third faction, some ancient group probably five prophets who orchestrated all of this. It's the only way I can deal with this: I will not be happy if certain persons are in actuality certain entities. Especially people who have been around too long, who lived before the first cylon attack. Sigh... I guess the Caprica TV show will possibly delve into it... but dammit, that show better be frakking good. This show is going too far into paranormal and starting to suffer from hollywood interference. --Baltarstar 20:23, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

Dude... They're kinda definitionally cylons. They say there're 12 models. We've seen 7. There are 5 more. The Final Five. Done and done. --BklynBruzer 21:28, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

No offense, but I do believe we have enough reason to totally disregard that conclusion. Firstly, and might I add, perfectly timed, the main page has a link to "Who is a cylon", with a website, blog, and a nice canon explanation of who is and likely is not a Cylon. Saul Tigh... Whom I call "The Tigh Dog"... but who is known also as "The Tigh Fighter" (YES!) can't possibly BE a cylon. And why? Just as I stated, he's been known by Adama for too long (at least prior to the FIRST war). Second, this leads to my speculation from the talk on Crossroads Part 1... Even if these guys are the Final Five... they still aren't cylons. The Final Five are not Cylons. That's what I have been suspecting ever since the Oracle gave prophecy to Biers... ever since The Hybrid gave prophecy to Baltar. That's when I remembered Shelly from "Six Degrees of Seperation". Tigh is so not a cylon. If Tigh is a cylon... I mean really a cylon... this show has jumped the shark. Yes I'm sure they THINK they are Cylons, just like the Cylons THINK the final five are Cylons. But Tigh is not a Cylon. As far as the Final five go, maybe he is, maybe not. The Final Five are perhaps a third... NON CYLON... faction, closely related to the oracles, the prophecies, and what not. Possibly some disgruntled 13th tribe members that wanted to get revenge... who knows... but NOT CYLONS! --Baltarstar 21:04, 23 March 2007 (CDT)

  • sigh* Twelve Cylon Models. 7 have been seen. Five not. The Final Five. THE FINAL FIVE UNREVEALED CYLONS!!! --BklynBruzer 21:07, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
I'm with you, BB... Final five will be revealed Sunday. Can't wait to see who, though I already suspect at least four of 'em. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 21:18, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
4 of 5, and then it'll be the... hmm... damn... can't think of a word starting with O to go with One... --BklynBruzer 22:58, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
Only? Obfuscated? Omega? As for the Tigh rumor, it's plausible that humanoid Cylons date back to the war (they could've discovered a 2000 year old data archive, developed the technology themselves with a Cylon-constructed supercomputer). The term "Cylon" hasn't really been defined, if "Cylon" just means "artificial humanoid" or "self-aware artificial life form" then the Final Five could predate the Centurions and still be Cylons. -- Gordon Ecker 01:16, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
Yeah! The Only One! --BklynBruzer 15:38, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Aw, come on guys. Firstly, you're buying into the notion that the Cylons are nearly omniscent. Isn't it probable that the Cylons themselves have been mislead? In addition, this stuff about Cylon models being created thousands of years ago makes no sense. There are only 12 models they know of. The encephalitus disease that knocked out a whole basestar of Cylons should debunk that long shot. If we are going to split hairs on what a Cylon is... then we need to reconsider who created them in the first place. I believe the 13th tribe left a faction, most likely the priesthood, behind. That priesthood wanted to fulfill some destiny or resolve some unresolved issue in the distant future and they were the invisible hand behind the first cylon war and the cause behind the Cylon visions (projections), the cylon rebirthing, and other spriritual technologies the Cylons have. In addition I believe the final five are actually the original five prophets that the Cylons mistakenly believe are "cylons". Even if I am wrong about that, to simply dismiss Tigh as a Cylon for the reasons above makes no sense. I bet during the fourth season the so called "revelation" that Tigh, Anders, and the others being cylons will turn out to be a Cylon (or Prophetic) hoax. And this... is where I think Six Degrees of Seperation will play a role. "What happened to Shelly"? She never really left, she has been manipulating things on the ship. It's a long shot, but I'm going to wait it out and see. --Baltarstar 21:34, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Here is my theory on the whole "Tigh is a Cylon" thing, Tigh (and the others) are NOT the Final Five Cylons (they will initally think that they are but are mistaken). They will discover that they are descendants of the Final Five models who intermarried with humans back on Kobol and that the "Final Five" were the first cylons who were created by "the Jealous God" (who is also the God worshiped by The Seven we have seen so far). Which will still leave room for Starbuck to be one of the Final Five. I have to admit that a lot of this is comming just from instinct and my imagination but it would make a lot more sense than Tigh being a Cylon since from what we have already heard that the Cylons are immortal (and is safe to assume that they DO NOT AGE, which Tigh would have done since the First Cylon War 40 years ago). Mishakal 22:05, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

EXACTLY! See? Someone else understands what I have been trying to say, although I don't think the writers will put the jealous god angle in that way (but maybe they will). But I agree almost entiely with what you are saying. I just think the final five are some leftovers of the 13th tribe... Wait. I just realized something. The 13th tribe left and there was some war between the "gods" right? What if, the 13th tribe didn't leave on good terms with the other 12? Now if we can fit the Shelly angle into this, I will feel much better. Six degrees still hangs like a disowned child. --Baltarstar 23:54, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
Why is it safe to assume that the humanoid Cylons do not age? Their physiology is close enough to that of regular humans to allow crossbreeding. Old age wouldn't be a problem, as they could just get resurrected in younger, more recently glown replacement bodies when they die of old age. -- Gordon Ecker 23:44, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Maybe a growing and aging body function interfers with the ressurrection ability. Exact copies, thus perfectly aligned brainwave patterns to reinsert into the new body. --Baltarstar 23:56, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Who says they have brainwaves? Silica pathways, remember? --BklynBruzer 00:32, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
So Tigh can't be a Cylon because Cylons don't age, Cylons don't age because ageing would interfere with the resurrection process, and we know that ageing would interfere with the resurrection process because there needs to be some reason for the Cylons not to age? This is a clear circular logic fallacy. There is no canonical evidence which rules the possibility of Cylons ageing. -- Gordon Ecker 00:43, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
Point taken, but it would seem strange that the Cylons would neglect ageing when they went about making themselves into an IMPROVED version of Human. It would be an inconveinence for a cylon to be dying of old age and ressurecting in what would be (from their point of view) a constant stream for all time. Why is the idea that they found a way around that so strange to you? Mishakal 00:57, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
All I'm saying is that there is currently no evidence for or against Cylon ageing, no evidence about whether or not Cylons have the technology for eternal youth and no conclusive proof that they would or would not use such technology if they had it. -- Gordon Ecker 02:05, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
Agreed. To be honest, I feel the Cylons have to age, though it may be slower than your normal human. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 08:20, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
Slowed ageing would explain why Hera Agathon doesn't seem to walk or talk even though she's about two years old now (although she could be walking and talking off-screen). -- Gordon Ecker 09:03, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
But to me it just doesn't seem to fit for something that is machine in origin to age, it throws the aesthetics off drastically. Mishakal 15:10, 25 March 2007 (CDT)
But they're no longer mechanical machines. They are more biological. Upon becoming human, which they effectively are, they have demonstrated becoming susceptible to a disease. Thus, with all that, they simply have to age, as any biologist worth their salt would tell you. The question of how quickly they age is another matter. (Which, as Gordon Ecker pointed out, is a very good reason why Hera hasn't aged so much as she should have. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 15:46, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

No. Cylons don't age because we see them in the ressurrection ship, and being ressurrected in the same exact age. You saw all of the copies of Sharon and six, not one was "younger" or "older". There has been no age variants (and im specifically pointing out scenes from the Cylon perspective, taking the "keep it a secret" response pointless. There is no cylon aging process. They are manufactured, not grown. If they age, it's from the time they are manufactured. Remember this goes back to a discussion about Saul Tigh. He ages normally. But here is a bigger piece of info I have to offer. Saul, Anders, and Tyrol never became succeptible to the encephalitis virus. That alone should end all of this nonsense. Humans are immune to it. Cylons are not. Saul Tigh being a cylon? If so, then the show has jumped... no... done a double reverse backflip over a whole school of sharks. If Saul is a Cylon (and if the final five are actually the bad guy cylon type of cylons) then I am done with this show. So I prefer to give the whole fourth season a chance to redefine "cylon" as Moore has stated. What is a cylon? Who cares. All I know is that the "final five"... if SAUL TIGH is irrefutably one... are some Earth-based 13th tribe faction that is somehow manipulating all of this, for some reason. Either that or they were bugged into thinking they are cylons. --Baltarstar 00:23, 28 March 2007 (CDT)


Anyone care to adjust the runtime due to the fact that this episode came out only 2 minutes longer as opposed to the reported 5? --Mars 01:53, 27 March 2007 (CDT)


Is it just me, or is there no podcast? Or did SciFi update it this morning and I just haven't checked yet? --Starsmore 12:39, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Well, it took SciFi until Tuesday morning to make this episode available on iTunes. So this doesn't surprise me. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 17:42, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Assumed to be Cylons?

Why is it assumed that Tyrol, Tigh, Foster and Anders are the final five (well, most of the final five)? Ok, so they _suspect_ that they are, but there's nothing concrete in my opinion. That's them simply rationalising why they all met. It sounds a lot more of a lame idea now I've written it down, but there it is. FredTheDeadHead 14:35, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

Ron Moore has confirmed they were Cylons in a press interview here. --Saforrest 15:36, 27 March 2007 (CDT)
Also, in that same interview, Moore said that once they got to a certain point in space, the four of them became aware of the fact that they are Cylons. That means that they don't just suspect that they are Cylons, they know that they are. Tyrol even mentioned a switch that went off in their heads when they became aware of being Cylons. Dark Claw 15:56, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

All four of our so called cylons were on New Caprica. And guess what... while we are all here trying to convince ourselves they are cylons, we fail to consider that they were bugged by the cylons. I have no doubt at some point all of them were put in jail or "processed" by the cylons at SOME point (even if a small bit of time). Someone, probably Cavil's line, biologically bugged them, and like the Olympic Carrier, made them beacons for the cylons to follow. Buzzz Buzzz, I hear music. I never heard it until after we all left New Caprica. I'll take a cylon biological experiment over cylons aging and a 40 year cylon model. And remember, I even made a point that if they are the "final five" then the "final" five are actually the "first" five. Which means they are either fooling the cylons or are not cylons. But I choose to believe these "final five" were bugged. And the Final Five certainly aren't cylons either way. Sorry Ron, I'm not falling for your double bluff --Baltarstar 00:18, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Oh and another thing to remmeber, someone pointed out how the other cylons aren't even aware of these "cylons" right? Well... if they aren't humans being bugged... then why and how else is the cylon fleet able to track them? And why aren't these final five participating in any of the dreams that Roslin gets to have with Six and Athena? I am telling you, the final five are not cylons. I think Roslin and Starbuck are the final five, but these other four are just the first to be "Frak'd" (pun on Punk'd). One last time, making it clear: Anders, Tyrol, Tory, and TIGH are unwitting guinea pigs that were bugged with some undetectable biological tracking device by the cylons while on New Caprica. They bugged them in their sleep, they did it while they were in prison. The Cylons don't know about the final five, or who they are... so the Cylons can't possibly be following a signal sent by people they do not know. --Baltarstar 00:36, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

I don't necessarily see it like that Rather, I see it in that while they might be Cylons, that does not make them Cylons. Or, to put it another way, as Tigh succinctly put it: "Whatever else I am, whatever else it means, that's the man I want to be. And if I die today, that's the man I'll be." Silica pathways, nanite bloodcells, whatever - they, like Sharon Agathon (and maybe Caprica Six) have chosen to rise above their natures and embrace humanity; the exact opposite of Sharon Valerii. They aspire to be more than they are (or what they fear they are), and that is what defines them (at least in one sense) as human, regardless of the outcome.
Which makes me curious: with Baltar's earlier Cylon detector, he discovered Boomer was a Cylon. While he gave everyone else a "clean bill of health", surely he'd have had to scan at least one of the four (Anders being the obvious exception) at one time or another. Why, assuming that he did, didn't their natures show up then?--み使い Mitsukai 00:42, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
As Caprica-Six explains in Crossroads, Part I, the Cylon fleet has been following the unique radiation leakage from the tylium refinery. Secondly, there is no evidence one way or the other that the four of them were ever "bugged", or even if the Cylons have that kind of technology. Also, the "Significant Seven" and "Final Five" actually parallel (to an extent) the Titans and the Olympians from Greek mythology, and given much of the Greek underpinnings of the series, I find this easily more believable than the Cylons taking a page out of Scorpius's manual and shoving a neural transponder in their heads, or some such. I would elaborate further, but again this isn't the place to discuss that. -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 06:10, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Someone is going to reply that the final five aren't designed like the other seven, and that will explain the cylon detector, the encephalitis virus, and the cylons' inability to recognize them. What it won't explain is the lack of visionary, oracle, and prophetic relevance of these newly revealed final-frauds. The Final Five at the very least should be involved in the prophecies, have some interactions on a spiritual or psychic level (either via the oracles or via the visions), and should have some connection to the priesthood. Here is what happened. The cylon "phone home" bug became active when Tyrol was close to the Eye of Jupiter. The Cylons have some link to the prophecies. But remember, Cavil said that it would take them a longer time to find Earth without the prophecies. So the final five are either not helping or not cognizant regarding them. Ok, I'm done. By the way, where can one post about this stuff, if posting here is inappropriate? --Baltarstar 00:56, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Tyrol, Tigh and Anders did not board the base ship. Also, Tigh was not XO during this incident as he was pretty much drinking himself in a stupor at that time. Tyrol is a NCO, so he wouldn't have any contact with the Cylons transferred from the baseship, and (from what can be inferred from the episode) the Colonials used quarantine procedures to transfer the boarding party to sickbay (so this removes him from being exposed that way as well). And Anders has no reason (or access) to the Cylon prisoners retrieved from the infected basestar. Also, clearly, the Significant Seven don't know who the Final Five are (consciously speaking), hence D'anna's search.
As for the best place to discuss this, I would recommend a bulletin board, like Ragnar Anchorage or -- Joe Beaudoin So say we all - Donate 06:10, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Song title

I'd just like someone who knows to put up the title of the Dylan song. Thx.--飞机 02:42, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

It's All Along the Watchtower, but I'm having trouble making edits right now. -- Gordon Ecker 04:14, 28 March 2007 (CDT)
I just added it to the page. -- Gordon Ecker 04:22, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Can we post the lyrics without a copyright violation? There are some lines in the song that are certainly significant.

Oh, and regarding the arguments on this board about the finale...I think you're missing the real point, which is the fact that Bob Dylan is a Cylon. We should throw him out the airlock.-- Dallan007 18:24, 28 March 2007 (CDT)