Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Act of Contrition

2008-05-28T08:14:14Z

Zenzero:

{{Episode Data
| image =bsg-1-04.jpg
| title=Act of Contrition
| series=
| season=1
| episode=4
| guests=
| writer=[[Bradley Thompson]] [[David Weddle]]
| story=
| director=[[Rod Hardy]]
| production=104
| rating= 2.5
| US airdate=2005-01-28
| CAN airdate=2005-02-05
| UK airdate=2004-11-08
| dvd= {{Season 1 NTSC DVD release date}} '''US''' {{Season 1 PAL DVD release date}} '''UK'''
| population= 47958
| oldpopulation= 47958
| prev=[[Bastille Day]]
| next=[[You Can't Go Home Again]]
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}}

== Overview ==

:''When several [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] pilots are killed in a freak accident, [[William Adama|Adama]] turns to [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] for help - but her involvement in the aftermath of the accident and in training new pilots causes the truth surrounding [[Zak Adama]]'s death to finally surface.''

== Summary ==

=== On ''Galactica'' ===
* It is [[Dwight Saunders|Dwight “Flat Top” Saunder’s]] 1,000th deck landing, which brings ''Galactica’s'' pilots down to the [[hangar deck]] to celebrate.
* As the celebrations continue, a [[communication drone]] stowed on the hangar deck breaks loose from its restraints, falling to the deck and igniting its motor. The drone flies across the hangar, smashing into the celebrating pilots where it explodes, killing Flat Top and twelve others and putting seven more in [[sickbay]].
* As the surviving pilots prepare for the [[services for the dead]], [[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] has flashbacks to her first meeting with [[William Adama]], following the death of his son, [[Zak Adama|Zak]].
* During the memorial service itself, she, [[Lee Adama]] and Bill Adama all have flashbacks – to Zak Adama’s funeral and (in Thrace's case) to her telling Zak he has qualified as a [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] pilot.
* Following the service, Commander Adama asks Thrace to oversee the training of any new pilots they can find in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]].
* Thrace is initially hesitant, and the Commander guesses the cause is Zak's accident. He reassures her that his son’s death was not her fault – which causes Thrace to remember her admission to Lee Adama: that she passed Zak Adama through his basic training when he had in fact failed ([[Miniseries]]).
* She reluctantly accepts the duty, but memories of Zak Adama continue to haunt her as she plays cards with [[Gaius Baltar]], oblivious to a conversation that takes place between [[Crashdown]] and [[Felix Gaeta]] concerning Baltar’s [[Cylon detector]] – a conversation that leaves [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] very uncomfortable.
* Elsewhere on ''Galactica'', President [[Laura Roslin]] is examined by the ship’s medical officer, Doctor [[Cottle]]. His diagnosis is not good: her cancer is inoperable. Roslin decides that she wants to try alternative therapy using [[Chamalla]] extract – something with entirely unproven effectiveness.
* Later, Thrace meets her first batch of recruits. They are all pilots – but none have ever flown a [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]. With [[Computers#Colonial Fleet Computers|no simulators]] aboard ''Galactica'', the newbies – [[nugget]]s – are thrown straight into the cockpit of the real thing.
* Their performance during their first training flight is hardly stellar, and Thrace is uncompromisingly hard on the first batch of recruits, washing them all out.
* Captain Adama confronts her on her decision, and realizes it is caused more by guilt about Zak Adama than on the ability of the trainees. When she refuses to reinstate the trainees, he takes the matter up with Commander Adama.
* Commander Adama initially supports Thrace's decision, but a misunderstanding between him and Lee Adama causes him to meet with Thrace to discuss Zak’s death.
* When Starbuck tries to dodge the issue, Adama pins her down, and she admits the truth: Zak botched his final training flights, but she passed him because she was in love with him and they were engaged – but Zak really wasn’t the right material for flying Vipers.
* Angered and hurt, Adama orders her to reinstate the trainees and to get out of his cabin.
* Starbuck leads a handful of the trainees on a training flight, about to begin a [[Thorch weave]] maneuver lesson when [[DRADIS]] detects a group of [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raiders]]. Starbuck orders her nuggets to return to ''Galactica'' and enters the combat zone, initially unaware that Hotdog chose to stay with her as her wingman.
* In the ensuing dogfight, Starbuck takes care of the Raiders (with [[Brendan Costanza|Hot Dog's]] aid), but her Viper is damaged after dispatching (but not destroying) the last Raider, losing first her transponder and then complete flight control.
*Hotdog's Viper is severely damaged, but he survives and awaits a [[SAR]] pickup.
*Her Viper goes into a flat spin as her Viper and the last dead Raider fall into the gravity well of a [[Red Moon|nearby moon]]. The moon's atmosphere tears the uncontrollable Viper apart, forcing her to eject.

===On [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]===
* [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] are tracking the source of the signal they previously picked up out in the woods ([[Water]]).
* The signal leads them to a restaurant in the city, which has a radiation shelter under it, stocked with everything they need to survive — water, food, blankets — even [[anti-radiation medication]].
* Their arrival at the restaurant is observed by a copy of [[Number Six|Six]].

== Notes ==

*It is 48 hours since the prisoner uprising on the ''Astral Queen''.
*Water replenishment ops are still underway.
*''Galactica'' has a remaining contingent of 40 Vipers on top of at least 5 Raptors (revealed in "[[Water]]"), but now only has 21 combat-ready pilots and a further 8 newbie "[[nugget]]s".
*Cylon Raiders have guns of an apparently similar nature to those mounted on Vipers.
*Zak and Starbuck were engaged, and that led to her passing him for flight duty.
*Adama's relationship with Starbuck is not as long-standing as the Miniseries appears to suggest: they have only served together for two years.
*Word is leaking out about Baltar's Cylon detector.
*Helo and Valerii still appear to be the only "people" left alive on Caprica. Neither seem in any hurry to get off the planet. (More humans are discovered in the second season episode, "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]])."
*Small inconsistency in set dressing: The books on the shelf that covers the fallout shelter's entrance are rectangular. The books in Adama's study however all have their [[Arts and Literature of the Twelve Colonies#Octagons|corners cut]].
*The Colonial military use what appear to be [[w:High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle|HumVees]] and [[w:Deuce and a half|Deuce-and-a-half]] trucks.
*While the Viper is burning on entry into the atmosphere, the Viper's [[w:Altimeter|altimeter]] is going in reverse, indicating altitude ''gain''.
*[[Ron D. Moore]] states on the DVD commentary that the munition activation that kills several pilots was inspired by a similar event on the [[wikipedia:USS Forrestal (CVA-59)|USS ''Forrestal'']] in 1967.
*Also according to the DVD commentary, the ejection sequence at the beginning of each chapter is an homage to ''[[w:The Right Stuff|The Right Stuff]]''.

== Analysis ==
*This episode emphasizes many of the [[Naturalistic science fiction|goals set at the series' creation]] to make a sci-fi series that is grounded in realism. The logistical limitations on the Fleet are readily apparent: this episode highlights how difficult it is for ''Galactica'' to train new combat-ready pilots, as there are no reserve pilots and civilians with little or no prior flying experience are all that they have to work with.
*Further, this episode shows that sometimes accidents simply happen on a battlestar: this is not a perfect, pristine in-story universe but a worn, run-down real world. The accident on the flight deck occurred not through sabotage or some sort of [[technobabble]] space anomaly, but simply because an old piece of equipment wore out.
*The realism highlighted by this episode is again apparent in the climactic scene between Starbuck and Commander Adama, in which she reveals that she was responsible for his son's death. The dramatic situation it focused on is not centered around some sci-fi concept, but the interactions between people which could have occurred on present-day Earth. If the script for this episode were ported onto another series set on a modern-day Navy aircraft carrier, there would be few if any changes to it. It is a drama script, which happens to be set in space, which was one of the goals of the series.

== Questions ==
*Why does ''Galactica's'' doctor, Major [[Cottle]], ''smoke'', knowing full well the medical implications of cigarette smoking? ([[#Official Statements|Answer]])

== Official Statements ==

* ''[[Ron D. Moore]] discusses [[Cottle]]'s smoking:''
*: '''Moore:''' Because smoking is cool. Don't let anyone tell you different, kid. [...] Seriously, we're showing people doing what people really do and not all of their choices are smart ones. We smoke, we drink, we have sex with the wrong partners -- we make lots of bad choices and some of them we do knowingly and in full cognizance of the risks and consequences. Dr. Cottle obviously knows the risks associated with smoking and he elects to do it anyway — that's his choice.<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/02/|title=Ron D. Moore blog entry|date=19 February 2005|accessdate=18 February 2007|last=Moore|first=Ron D.|format=|language=}}</ref>

* ''[[Bodie Olmos]] talks about his most challenging day on-set:''
*: '''Olmos:''' Interesting[ly] enough, probably the first episode I was in, "Act of Contrition". I was so excited, nervous and amazed that I was on the show. That for me was a rough day, let me tell you! I could hardly sit still and the day seemed so long. I just wanted to be good, and make sure I knew what this character was all about, which is very difficult. I think it evolves. One minute you may think he is like this but then you see that he actually believes something else. So I was definitely glad to make it through that one.<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.thescifiworld.net/interviews/bodie_olmos_01.htm|title=The SciFi World: Bodie Olmos interview|date=20 January 2007|accessdate=18 February 2007|last=Craddock|first=Lisa|format=|language=}}</ref>

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''In Adama's Cabin, with Thrace and Adama, discussing comments made earlier by Lee Adama:''
:'''Adama''': He said something else. That you might have been feeling guilty about something you did for Zak. What did you do for him?
:'''Thrace''': I don't know. You'd have to ask Lee.
:'''Adama''': I'm asking you.
:'''Thrace''': Well I don't kn- I, ah...I don't really know what he was talking about, so...
:'''Adama''': Don't fence with me, Kara. I love you like a daughter. I don't deserve that.
:'''Thrace''': Ummm...Zak...failed...basic flight. He wasn't a bad pilot, he just had no feel for flying...and, um, when it came to his final check ride he...busted...three of the test manoeuvres, and I should have flunked him, but I didn't. The bottom line is your...son...didn't have the chops to fly a Viper...and I killed him.
:'''Adama''': (following a flashback) You did it because you were engaged.
:'''Thrace''': (breaking down) Because I made a mistake...because I was just...I was so in love with him...and I let that get in the way of doing my job...and um, and he um, he just wanted it so much, and I...I didn't want to be the one who crushed him...
:'''Adama''': Reinstate the trainees to flight status.
:'''Thrace''': I will...but I just want you to understand...that I...
:'''Adama''': Do your job.
:'''Thrace''': Yes sir...
:'''Adama''': And walk out of this cabin...while you still can...

== Guest stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Kandyse McClure]] as Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Paul Campbell]] as [[Billy Keikeya]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Samuel Witwer]] as [[Crashdown]]
*[[Lorena Gale]] as [[Elosha]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Jill Teed]] as Sergeant [[Hadrian]]
*[[Tobias Mehler]] as [[Zak Adama]]
*[[Colby Johannson]] as Lt. [[Dwight Saunders|Dwight "Flat Top" Saunders]]
*[[Bill Meilen]] as Caprica Cleric
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as [[Brendan Costanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza]]
*[[Lucianna Carro]] as [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[Terry Chen]] as [[Perry|"Chuckles" Perry]]

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

==External Links ==
{{ext-wikipedia-name|article = Contrition|name = Contrition }}

{{episode list (RDM season 1)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Rod Hardy]]
[[Category:RDM]]

{{quality candidate}}
{{featured article candidate previous}}

[[de:Zeichen der Reue]]
[[es:Acto de Contrición]]
[[fr:Confession]]
[[zh:忏悔之为]]

Talk:The Ties That Bind/Archive 1

2008-04-30T14:33:05Z

Zenzero:

Is this title a hint to [[Saul Tigh|everyone's favourite alcoholic colonel]]? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:23, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
:That would be "The Tighs That Bind". hehe. Like "Tigh me up, Tigh me down". That was a nice play on words. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:22, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

== SG1 thing? ==

Is the SG-1 thing really necessary? After all, I'm sure that here are tons of television shows that have similar names -- for instance, I'm sure that there are shows that have episodes named "Faith". To be honest, I find nothing significant in that note. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 13:22, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
:Agreed. Usually it's simple title that get reused often, but since this is a fixed expression it's not so surprising. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:25, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
::Didn't know "The Ties That Bind" was like a common expression (one of the downsides of being a near-native, but still non-native, English speaker), I was under the impression it was simply a Biblical quote. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 13:49, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
:::The origin is of course that bible quote, but if you google it, you'll also find a Bruce Springsteen song and many news articles that use it. For example "The ties that bind China, Russia and Iran" or "Sony Cuts the Ties That Bind Walkman" or "Technologies to untie the ties that bind". And for TV, an episode of "The OC" shares that name too, so Stargate shouldn't be singled out. We already pay way too much attention to it with cast notes. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:55, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
::::Right. I just didn't know TTTB was a common expression. Removing. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 13:59, 13 October 2007 (CDT)

== Image ==

May I suggest taking some image that is a) smaller b) oriented horizontally, not vertically? Current image breaks s.4 episode guide and is a bit too big. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:It's already scaled down and it might not be so obvious once that page is filled with content. The only other interesting image would be [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=283&pos=1 this] (I can get a high-res version). Or we could crop the current one at her waist. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::My vote goes to [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=283&pos=1 this], right. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::: It depends, because Cally... ahem. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::: Then crop it at least if it must be Cally. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:25, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::I say [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=283&pos=3 this one] How many do have Cheif and Tory? We have lots with Roslin and crew. :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 03:23, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, it's not like there is a shortage of things about the Final Five, either on screen or online, so I chose pictures that are about something else. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Mixing it up is good. I been thinking about making them all random <code>{{#random:image1.jpg,etc}}</code> [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 15:56, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== Orion ==
At about 28 minutes, when the other baseships jump in, the constellation of Orion is clearly visible in the background. Worth mentioning on the entry?--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 10:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely. Not only did you see Orion, but also Taurus and the Pleiades - and most importantly, as you would see them if you were within ~50 light years of Earth. --[[User:Qprmeteor|Qprmeteor]] 12:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

:I think that this is also a tribute to Blade Runner: "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. '''Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.''' I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die." very cool! --[[User:Zenzero|Zenzero]], 30 April 2008

== Acts vs. Location Format ==
I feel that this guide would be much easier to read and follow if it was in a Location format instead of by Acts. IMHO, YMMV, ect. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah. that's the way I orginally had it setup before spenc uploaded his thing :P [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 16:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::Sorry, didn't look at the history. It just seems harder to read this way. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Hey. Wasn't blaming ya. :) I gues I'll pick apart his summary and switch everything around. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 16:36, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::::We have most of the guides in act format since that's how the episode translates. While this may be easy to read, it also throws the order of the story out of whack. I figure we have to do this on a case-by-case given the number of scene shifts, so.... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Not so much scene shifts, but number of ''independent'' story lines. Sometimes, there are two different settings, but heavily intercut and dependent on each other. Like the stuff in "The Eye of Jupiter" and "Rapture". One the other hand, the Caprica, Kobol and Cylon story lines stand for themselves and can have an own section. That's how we always did it. Nothing new :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:56, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

== Nicky Cylon or Human ==

I wonder if this episode shows how the story hits on pure fiction rather than sci-fi with the case of Nicky being a cylon. Nicky is a boy, which would mean there has to be a Y chromosome. If Tyrol is truly a Cylon, then Cally could only have a female child. They stated earlier in the series that the skinjobs could not reproduce without human donors. Reading the sci-fi forums and original series (way back to deception to the Cylons/Baltar by Specter, and how the Beings of Light 'try' not to interfere) may provide a spoiler to what is to come next from this episode if it stays on the sci-fi side. If it goes fiction, maybe it be worth noting what made Nicky a boy and a cylon before someone yells "that's not sci-fi!" (The Science Note: women can reproduce women without men in genetic experiments of fertilization, but women do not carry/make the Y chromosome to reproduce a male.) (Podcast note: [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Podcast:Frak_Party_Q_and_A#hybridnick]) [[User:Dzonatas|Dzonatas]] 21:02, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:They did not state anything about human donors. They stated that Cylons could not reproduce with each other, and could not reproduce with humans unless there was love. Cally and Tyrol love each other, imperfect as their marriage might be, so Nicky was conceived like Hera. No reason he shouldn't have a Cylon Y chromosome. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:40, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::RDM has stated the the final five are fundamentally different than the others, so what is know about the significant seven may not apply. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Plus, what is known about the signficant seven doesn't rule it out. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::So, we can say that Nicky is fundamentally different when compared to Hera. The plot just grows more from this episode about them and brings questions, but the difference can be noted on the Nicky or Hera page. I was going to add something to the article, but I felt it was better to wait another episode. Thanks -- [[User:Dzonatas|Dzonatas]] 03:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::For now, we don't know of any fundamental differences between Nicky and Hera yet. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 03:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

== Inappropriate use of Point of Order? ==

According to Robert's Rules of Order, a Point of Order is raised if the rules of order have apparently been broken. In this case, rules don't seem to have been broken, and Lee is really just interrupting to bring up his own issues (which could be construed as out of order). The closest motion that I could find is a Request for Any Other Privilege, which he would then use to try to bring up a more pressing issue, but this is still an iffy case. [[User:Ctetc2007|Ctetc2007]] 10:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
:Standing-up at the table is a request to yield. The one who has the floor is the one who can decide to yield the floor. If Lee continued without the floor being yielded to him, then it would be out of order. Notice that Lee does ask for the floor to yield. The point of order is to get the answer to yield the floor and to quiet everybody else that does not have the floor. Roslin immediately tabled the issue that Lee brought up. Lee sits down, and the floor is returned. He could have requested an immediate call to vote to handle the issue, but typically it would have to be by some disastrous or emergency situation to call to vote on non-agenda items. Why didn't he make that case at that time? [[User:Dzonatas|Dzonatas]] 14:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

== Interesting Comments about Orion Sighting ==
The [http://community.livejournal.com/battlestar_blog/992976.html post] might be worth reading. Didn't know about the [[w:Ophiuchus |thirteenth sign]] until now. Any astrophysicists on board to judge this info? -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

:This is a great little read (the link above). Even the bit about the Cylons of Greece (an aditional link once there). I was wondering, has anyone seen/made a super-speculative galactic map of where the fleet might be? especially now that with being able to pin point the rough neighbourhood the fleet is now in.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 12:51, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

== Monitoring Launch Tubes ==

The reason nobody notices the launch tubes being used is probably due to the Galactica's lack of automation. There's no central computer to track these things, and the over-worked state of Galactica's repair crew probably means that the logs that would track these things (assuming there's a counter at all) aren't being kept properly.

Of course, this doesn't explain why there wouldn't be guards.

— [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 01:12, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

:Well, at least they already established that nobody was paying attention to the launch tubes in last season's "[[Collaborators]]"... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::Poor Jammer. :( [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 05:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

: This might be indeed a flaw by design, but one that they should have fixed after the first Cylon war. The Cylons boarded ships via airlocks and launch tubes and used them as weapon to vent the crew out of the ship. In such a situation the security team etc. should know where to look for the enemy. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 10:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

:Well, would YOU want to guard the launch tubes? 99% of the time you'd just be standing there in an empty control room (at least at night), not to mention the fact that since there are quite a few launch tubes, you'd be tying up a significant number of personnel doing so. It seems like it'd be easier in terms of manpower to have guards somewhere in the hangar deck (potentially in intersection of the hangar deck(s) and the interior of the ship). By guarding the choke points, you'd be covered against somebody coming from any of the launch tubes, and from the landing bay openings as well. Though obviously the biggest reason the launch tubes are untended are for dramatic purposes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::Nobody said there had to be ''humans'' watching the launch tubes, you'd be 'watching' them electronically, just like building security monitors elevator movements. If they did that and logged all activity, they'd find out Cally's launch tube was spaced from the control room and know she didn't commit suicide. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, that Cally did not commit suicide is something that a good criminal investigator would find out anyway - Cally has to trigger the launch tube from inside by use this little key. This key should still be in the launch tube. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 14:20, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::True, but you know what happens when you put "machines" in charge of things... Closed circuit monitoring would of course be sensible. And if they wanted to get into all that, they could alter the logs and substitute in bogus footage, etc. When your conspiracy includes the Chief and the XO, there's not a lot of limits to what you could cover up. I guess they didn't want to get into that. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I don't think the Chief and the XO were in on this. And as to the key, wouldn't it be spaced too? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Oh, I meant more of the executions in Collaborators. As for the key, it'd probably be "locked" into place when turned to the activated position. That, or you'd be losing keys whenever you did that. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:47, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::Whenever you did what? Flushing a launch tube with yourself inside? How often does that happen? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 16:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::There are probably moving parts in the non-pressurized areas of the launch tube that need occasional maintenance. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I myself have decided to suspend disbelief on this particular issue. I find it fairly unbelievable that there isn't an automated system that would at least inform CIC that a "launch" had taken place. Also, this is a military ship on a war footing; I'm sure they have plenty of bored marines who could be patrolling the ship, especially sensitive areas like launch tubes and airlocks. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 20:07, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:Well it kinda depends on how detailed the data is that arrives at CIC: they may know ''that'' the launch tube was flushed, but they may not be able to tell whether it was operated from the inside or the outside (which would be of little use outside murder investigations). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 20:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

== Taurus ==
Some observant individual has noticed that Taurus is visible in this Orion [http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=taurusqv3.jpg screen cap] (Orion is still visible in the lower left), putting the Cylon fleet pretty close to Earth. Is this observation correct? -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
:Oh, that's just bull ;) -- [[User:Whytwolf|Whyte Wolf]] 20:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

== Wired ==

''Wired'' credits the Battlestar Wiki for the photo they use for this blog, [http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/04/galacticas-thir.html Galactica's 'Ties That Bind' Is All Fraked Up].--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 01:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

== Question about Nebula effects on the Callster ==

So this question was added to the questions section: ''Why did reaching the Ionian Nebula have such a negative effect on Cally (lack of sleep, depression)?''

The thing about this question is that it had nothing to do (directly) with the Ionian Nebula affecting Cally negatively... Galen Tyrol's the one that's been causing some of the problems since their marriage, as we've seen in "[[A Day in the Life]]", although the root problem is that they're both pretty incompatible, which came to a head pretty much after the revelation in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]".

I'm bringing this up here because I removed the question earlier, but it was re-added, and instead of sparking an edit where the entire questions section was blanked (as was the case after I removed the question the first time), I figure I'd discuss it here first... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:06, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:Agreed. There is a time correlation obviously, but no causality. Unfortunately, these days some people are too quick to search for an outside explanation within the story and events, instead of looking at what the characters themselves go through. That just creates pointless implications. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

== Launch tube window ==

Has the reference to this been removed for a reason? I'm sure the article used to mention that there can't be a window in that location. (Did its illogical appearance really annoy anyone else as well?) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 10:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:Still there. Last item in the Notes section. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::Oops, my bad :) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 12:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::You know, it might just be an hallucination... Given that Cally was basically in an unstable state of mind, she might have just been imagining that there was a window there. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Talk:The Ties That Bind/Archive 1

2008-04-30T14:28:12Z

Zenzero:

Is this title a hint to [[Saul Tigh|everyone's favourite alcoholic colonel]]? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:23, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
:That would be "The Tighs That Bind". hehe. Like "Tigh me up, Tigh me down". That was a nice play on words. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:22, 22 June 2007 (CDT)

== SG1 thing? ==

Is the SG-1 thing really necessary? After all, I'm sure that here are tons of television shows that have similar names -- for instance, I'm sure that there are shows that have episodes named "Faith". To be honest, I find nothing significant in that note. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 13:22, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
:Agreed. Usually it's simple title that get reused often, but since this is a fixed expression it's not so surprising. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:25, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
::Didn't know "The Ties That Bind" was like a common expression (one of the downsides of being a near-native, but still non-native, English speaker), I was under the impression it was simply a Biblical quote. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 13:49, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
:::The origin is of course that bible quote, but if you google it, you'll also find a Bruce Springsteen song and many news articles that use it. For example "The ties that bind China, Russia and Iran" or "Sony Cuts the Ties That Bind Walkman" or "Technologies to untie the ties that bind". And for TV, an episode of "The OC" shares that name too, so Stargate shouldn't be singled out. We already pay way too much attention to it with cast notes. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:55, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
::::Right. I just didn't know TTTB was a common expression. Removing. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 13:59, 13 October 2007 (CDT)

== Image ==

May I suggest taking some image that is a) smaller b) oriented horizontally, not vertically? Current image breaks s.4 episode guide and is a bit too big. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:56, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:It's already scaled down and it might not be so obvious once that page is filled with content. The only other interesting image would be [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=283&pos=1 this] (I can get a high-res version). Or we could crop the current one at her waist. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::My vote goes to [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=283&pos=1 this], right. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:41, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::: It depends, because Cally... ahem. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:15, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
:::: Then crop it at least if it must be Cally. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:25, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
::I say [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=283&pos=3 this one] How many do have Cheif and Tory? We have lots with Roslin and crew. :) [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 03:23, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, it's not like there is a shortage of things about the Final Five, either on screen or online, so I chose pictures that are about something else. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:49, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Mixing it up is good. I been thinking about making them all random <code>{{#random:image1.jpg,etc}}</code> [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 15:56, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== Orion ==
At about 28 minutes, when the other baseships jump in, the constellation of Orion is clearly visible in the background. Worth mentioning on the entry?--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 10:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Absolutely. Not only did you see Orion, but also Taurus and the Pleiades - and most importantly, as you would see them if you were within ~50 light years of Earth. --[[User:Qprmeteor|Qprmeteor]] 12:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

:I think that this is also a tribute to Blade Runner: "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. '''Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.''' I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die." very cool! --[[User:Zenzero|Zenzero]]

== Acts vs. Location Format ==
I feel that this guide would be much easier to read and follow if it was in a Location format instead of by Acts. IMHO, YMMV, ect. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah. that's the way I orginally had it setup before spenc uploaded his thing :P [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 16:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::Sorry, didn't look at the history. It just seems harder to read this way. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:34, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Hey. Wasn't blaming ya. :) I gues I'll pick apart his summary and switch everything around. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 16:36, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::::We have most of the guides in act format since that's how the episode translates. While this may be easy to read, it also throws the order of the story out of whack. I figure we have to do this on a case-by-case given the number of scene shifts, so.... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:15, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Not so much scene shifts, but number of ''independent'' story lines. Sometimes, there are two different settings, but heavily intercut and dependent on each other. Like the stuff in "The Eye of Jupiter" and "Rapture". One the other hand, the Caprica, Kobol and Cylon story lines stand for themselves and can have an own section. That's how we always did it. Nothing new :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:56, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

== Nicky Cylon or Human ==

I wonder if this episode shows how the story hits on pure fiction rather than sci-fi with the case of Nicky being a cylon. Nicky is a boy, which would mean there has to be a Y chromosome. If Tyrol is truly a Cylon, then Cally could only have a female child. They stated earlier in the series that the skinjobs could not reproduce without human donors. Reading the sci-fi forums and original series (way back to deception to the Cylons/Baltar by Specter, and how the Beings of Light 'try' not to interfere) may provide a spoiler to what is to come next from this episode if it stays on the sci-fi side. If it goes fiction, maybe it be worth noting what made Nicky a boy and a cylon before someone yells "that's not sci-fi!" (The Science Note: women can reproduce women without men in genetic experiments of fertilization, but women do not carry/make the Y chromosome to reproduce a male.) (Podcast note: [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Podcast:Frak_Party_Q_and_A#hybridnick]) [[User:Dzonatas|Dzonatas]] 21:02, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:They did not state anything about human donors. They stated that Cylons could not reproduce with each other, and could not reproduce with humans unless there was love. Cally and Tyrol love each other, imperfect as their marriage might be, so Nicky was conceived like Hera. No reason he shouldn't have a Cylon Y chromosome. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:40, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::RDM has stated the the final five are fundamentally different than the others, so what is know about the significant seven may not apply. -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
::::Plus, what is known about the signficant seven doesn't rule it out. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::So, we can say that Nicky is fundamentally different when compared to Hera. The plot just grows more from this episode about them and brings questions, but the difference can be noted on the Nicky or Hera page. I was going to add something to the article, but I felt it was better to wait another episode. Thanks -- [[User:Dzonatas|Dzonatas]] 03:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::For now, we don't know of any fundamental differences between Nicky and Hera yet. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 03:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

== Inappropriate use of Point of Order? ==

According to Robert's Rules of Order, a Point of Order is raised if the rules of order have apparently been broken. In this case, rules don't seem to have been broken, and Lee is really just interrupting to bring up his own issues (which could be construed as out of order). The closest motion that I could find is a Request for Any Other Privilege, which he would then use to try to bring up a more pressing issue, but this is still an iffy case. [[User:Ctetc2007|Ctetc2007]] 10:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
:Standing-up at the table is a request to yield. The one who has the floor is the one who can decide to yield the floor. If Lee continued without the floor being yielded to him, then it would be out of order. Notice that Lee does ask for the floor to yield. The point of order is to get the answer to yield the floor and to quiet everybody else that does not have the floor. Roslin immediately tabled the issue that Lee brought up. Lee sits down, and the floor is returned. He could have requested an immediate call to vote to handle the issue, but typically it would have to be by some disastrous or emergency situation to call to vote on non-agenda items. Why didn't he make that case at that time? [[User:Dzonatas|Dzonatas]] 14:51, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

== Interesting Comments about Orion Sighting ==
The [http://community.livejournal.com/battlestar_blog/992976.html post] might be worth reading. Didn't know about the [[w:Ophiuchus |thirteenth sign]] until now. Any astrophysicists on board to judge this info? -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:38, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

:This is a great little read (the link above). Even the bit about the Cylons of Greece (an aditional link once there). I was wondering, has anyone seen/made a super-speculative galactic map of where the fleet might be? especially now that with being able to pin point the rough neighbourhood the fleet is now in.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 12:51, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

== Monitoring Launch Tubes ==

The reason nobody notices the launch tubes being used is probably due to the Galactica's lack of automation. There's no central computer to track these things, and the over-worked state of Galactica's repair crew probably means that the logs that would track these things (assuming there's a counter at all) aren't being kept properly.

Of course, this doesn't explain why there wouldn't be guards.

— [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 01:12, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

:Well, at least they already established that nobody was paying attention to the launch tubes in last season's "[[Collaborators]]"... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:08, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::Poor Jammer. :( [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 05:33, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

: This might be indeed a flaw by design, but one that they should have fixed after the first Cylon war. The Cylons boarded ships via airlocks and launch tubes and used them as weapon to vent the crew out of the ship. In such a situation the security team etc. should know where to look for the enemy. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 10:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

:Well, would YOU want to guard the launch tubes? 99% of the time you'd just be standing there in an empty control room (at least at night), not to mention the fact that since there are quite a few launch tubes, you'd be tying up a significant number of personnel doing so. It seems like it'd be easier in terms of manpower to have guards somewhere in the hangar deck (potentially in intersection of the hangar deck(s) and the interior of the ship). By guarding the choke points, you'd be covered against somebody coming from any of the launch tubes, and from the landing bay openings as well. Though obviously the biggest reason the launch tubes are untended are for dramatic purposes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::Nobody said there had to be ''humans'' watching the launch tubes, you'd be 'watching' them electronically, just like building security monitors elevator movements. If they did that and logged all activity, they'd find out Cally's launch tube was spaced from the control room and know she didn't commit suicide. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:01, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::Well, that Cally did not commit suicide is something that a good criminal investigator would find out anyway - Cally has to trigger the launch tube from inside by use this little key. This key should still be in the launch tube. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 14:20, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::True, but you know what happens when you put "machines" in charge of things... Closed circuit monitoring would of course be sensible. And if they wanted to get into all that, they could alter the logs and substitute in bogus footage, etc. When your conspiracy includes the Chief and the XO, there's not a lot of limits to what you could cover up. I guess they didn't want to get into that. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:32, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::::I don't think the Chief and the XO were in on this. And as to the key, wouldn't it be spaced too? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:40, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::Oh, I meant more of the executions in Collaborators. As for the key, it'd probably be "locked" into place when turned to the activated position. That, or you'd be losing keys whenever you did that. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:47, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::Whenever you did what? Flushing a launch tube with yourself inside? How often does that happen? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 16:29, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::::There are probably moving parts in the non-pressurized areas of the launch tube that need occasional maintenance. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:38, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I myself have decided to suspend disbelief on this particular issue. I find it fairly unbelievable that there isn't an automated system that would at least inform CIC that a "launch" had taken place. Also, this is a military ship on a war footing; I'm sure they have plenty of bored marines who could be patrolling the ship, especially sensitive areas like launch tubes and airlocks. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 20:07, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
:Well it kinda depends on how detailed the data is that arrives at CIC: they may know ''that'' the launch tube was flushed, but they may not be able to tell whether it was operated from the inside or the outside (which would be of little use outside murder investigations). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 20:23, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

== Taurus ==
Some observant individual has noticed that Taurus is visible in this Orion [http://img259.imageshack.us/my.php?image=taurusqv3.jpg screen cap] (Orion is still visible in the lower left), putting the Cylon fleet pretty close to Earth. Is this observation correct? -- [[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:34, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
:Oh, that's just bull ;) -- [[User:Whytwolf|Whyte Wolf]] 20:30, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

== Wired ==

''Wired'' credits the Battlestar Wiki for the photo they use for this blog, [http://blog.wired.com/underwire/2008/04/galacticas-thir.html Galactica's 'Ties That Bind' Is All Fraked Up].--[[User:DrWho42|DrWho42]] 01:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

== Question about Nebula effects on the Callster ==

So this question was added to the questions section: ''Why did reaching the Ionian Nebula have such a negative effect on Cally (lack of sleep, depression)?''

The thing about this question is that it had nothing to do (directly) with the Ionian Nebula affecting Cally negatively... Galen Tyrol's the one that's been causing some of the problems since their marriage, as we've seen in "[[A Day in the Life]]", although the root problem is that they're both pretty incompatible, which came to a head pretty much after the revelation in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]".

I'm bringing this up here because I removed the question earlier, but it was re-added, and instead of sparking an edit where the entire questions section was blanked (as was the case after I removed the question the first time), I figure I'd discuss it here first... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:06, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:Agreed. There is a time correlation obviously, but no causality. Unfortunately, these days some people are too quick to search for an outside explanation within the story and events, instead of looking at what the characters themselves go through. That just creates pointless implications. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:27, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

== Launch tube window ==

Has the reference to this been removed for a reason? I'm sure the article used to mention that there can't be a window in that location. (Did its illogical appearance really annoy anyone else as well?) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 10:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:Still there. Last item in the Notes section. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::Oops, my bad :) [[User:FredTheDeadHead|FredTheDeadHead]] 12:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::You know, it might just be an hallucination... Given that Cally was basically in an unstable state of mind, she might have just been imagining that there was a window there. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:53, 29 April 2008 (UTC)