Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Final Five/Archive 1

2007-03-29T04:56:24Z

Zach dax:

== Promo Image ==

I took the image into photoshop (I do minor image tweaking at my job), did everything I could to enhance it, just for fun. And I'd like to make a grandiose speculation that the Five look, well, slightly mutilated...or mutated. Botched Cylon experiments, torutred and insane minds!!! I don't know, That one "fellow's" hand reaching to Three looks awefully stumpy...of course it could always be some foreshortening.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 10:57, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Yup, totally convinced they are mutilated and grotesque, their faces, albiet shrouded are just a little odd and produce strange shadow tones.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 11:17, 3 January 2007 (CST)

:It is also possible that the show is intentionally masquerading their faces to allow the show to cast anyone in these roles at a later time, rather than fixing the faces of the characters right away. In any case, any interpretations of these promo shots are too speculative to make a valid assessment. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:38, 3 January 2007 (CST)

We should get rid of the main picture - we don't know for sure that they are in fact the Final Five, they may be simply a hallucation on the part of D'eanna when she resurrects/is boxed.
Or perhaps the five temple priests who are not Cylons. Point is, we don't know --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 06:26, 10 January 2007 (CST)
:Writer's often portray canon information through a character, in this case D'Anna. That is the same vision she always has when she dies, we've already seen a part of the scene on "Hero", and it's what she's been seeing again and again. Her sketches and such are merely her representations of what she saw, this picture is what she actually saw. Anyways, even if you choose to not believe D'Anna, and even if you doubt the only logical explanation, I think David Eick confirmed that it's them she sees on a EW article. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:53, 10 January 2007 (CST)

== ID ==

Looking at the high resolution picture, I can identify most of the actors in these robes. Whether they actually are the Final Five Cylons or whether this is just a dream sequence and they grabbed whoever was convenient is not clear. From the left to the right:

# Aaron Douglas, better known as Chief Tyrol. The stature and facial features are a perfect match.
# Tahmoh Penikett, better known as Helo. This isn't as certain, but the lower face and stature both match.
# Unidentified female
# Unidentified female
# The big, bald Asian pilot who's always in the rec room.

[[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 21:32, 9 January 2007 (CST)

No two cylons can have a child which makes Tahmoh Penikett wrong. Don't know about the others, though the "Chief" guy is certainly too short --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 06:21, 10 January 2007 (CST)

:Major kudos if you are correct, cause I cartainly can't see it myself :P -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 06:27, 10 January 2007 (CST)
::They're just stand-ins, they don't release promo pics at random, and they wouldn't reveal anyone in such a way when having a chance to do it on screen. But as said before, those faces are vague enough to be almost anyone. They might have similarities, but a lot of people in the world can have similar features without looking the same. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:32, 10 January 2007 (CST)

::The thing of it is, is; we're all going to see what we want in them untill we actually see them. I'm pretty sure I'm not right (above comment) and fairly sure when they did these Promo pics and ambiguous #3 "in the hinterlands of Cylon death land" dreams, that they wouldn't have cast definite actors...it's a pretty significant choice to make of who should play the roles...so, stick some people in robes and shrouds to stand in and any old person will do for the snippets, clips, dream scenes and teaser tastys. we won't know 'till we know--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 07:42, 12 January 2007 (CST)

:Personally I think the show would be smart to not put all of their eggs in one basket on this whole final five thing. At least one of the five should be someone we've never seen, one should be someone who is alive and in the fleet and at least one should be someone who was in the fleet that has been dead for a while. Making all of the five sleepers who are in the fleet or making them all dead characters or all new characters wouldn't be very cool. Making it a balance between the three would be nice. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 19 January 2007.

I hate to repeat what's been stated, but I think Philwelch is looking way too hard because I see no one - and I mean ''no one'' familar in that image. Not even a vague similarity. I'm certain they're just stand-ins, but I find it odd that they'd release an image that shows so much, but also expect us not to see a match when the five are revealed. You'd figure they'd put more effort in hiding the faces, just to cover the bases. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 08:43, 22 January 2007 (CST)

== Reason for Locking ==

I don't want the server to flood or 4k people trying to edit this page. Take your time and finsh everything else first. Unprotect this at Midnight. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:21, 21 January 2007 (CST)

== Interpretation question ==

After thinking about this, there are only two individuals that believe that what D'anna/Three has seen is actually images of the final five Cylons: herself, and Baltar. The Colonials scripture know that the Temple of Five was human-built, long before the Cylons existed, and was related to five priests who may have worshiped someone different from the Lords of Kobol. There's plenty of inference (with Kara Thrace, Leoben, [[Dodona Selloi]], and the Threes) that there is a connection between the Lords of Kobol and the Cylon God. My problem is that, while the notion that the final five Cylons has been established, there isn't information ''between'' the characters that verifies that what Three has seen are actual Cylon or human figures.

For that reason, I am going to rewrite this article with a level of neutrality that does not support only Three's belief since there is Colonial connections that exist. The final five represent five human priestly people (blessed, cursed or otherwise cited) or five Cylons (boxed, or related somehow to the origin of the new Cylon, which, after "Rapture," is not clear-cut. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:31, 27 January 2007 (CST)
:Well....RDM called them "The Final Five" in his podcast...--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 10:03, 27 January 2007 (CST)
::The podcast doesn't elaborate on their nature, and Ron has twisted the truth before to keep the storyline a mystery until aired. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:06, 27 January 2007 (CST)

==Three wasn't the Only One==
I think we should also mention that Number Three wasn't the only Cylon to believe they were the Final Five. The Cavils believed it well enough to try to shoot her and even box her. So I think we should at least mention that they too believed Three was seeing the Final Five, enough to essentially eliminate 1/3 of their known female population. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:00, 27 January 2007 (CST)

The light that shines down as the Nova goes is real, and D'anna starts bleeding and dies for no other apparent reason. If it's an illusion in her mind, these things don't match.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 21:22, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:It didn't seem like an illusion, but rather a simple isolate hologram, which wouldn't be surprising since that's the kind of tech these things ususally have in them. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:35, 1 February 2007 (CST)

::The podcast supports the assumption that Three saw the actual Final Five, although I don't think it's explicitly stated. As for the device in the temple, there's quite a few possible explanations and I doubt we'll ever get a definitive answer about which one is correct. The device could've triggered both Three's death and the visions directly, the device could've triggered Three's death, resulting in a vision just like her previous deaths did or the device could've triggered the visions, resulting in Three's death due to some hypothetical built-in failsafe in Three. Each of those three possibilities also has a number of explanations (for example, if the device caused the visions, it may have been a technological substitute for [[chamalla]], it may have been designed to unlock repressed memories or in may have been programmed with the images of the Final Five at any time in the past 4000 years). -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:17, 2 February 2007 (CST)
::: It seems that [[projection]] would be a likely technology behind a vision seen only by here. Why a 4,000 year old temple would be able to do that is nor more a mystery than why it would be able to insert a vision any other way. Further reflection shows this image to possibly be different from the image in the Temple of Athena, which was more holodeck like, and seen by all.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 13:47, 2 February 2007 (CST)

==Warning - possibly big spoiler below==
I was watching Final Five photo, when I noticed face similarity to one of main characters face. I made some photo mainpulating, and results is below.

[http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/9007/finalfivespoilerzq0.png] <-- POSSIBLE HEAVY SPOILER

It gives me around 60-70% sure, that this char is one of Final Five. Yet there are two other things - first - it's possible, that director didn't thought of that, and put this actor there to "fill the gap".

Second - as I've searched through characteristic of this one, I haven't even found slight connections to Cylon, and it would mess with storyline pretty badly.

What do you think about that? --[[User:XLII|XLII]] 16:41, 28 January 2007 (CST)

:Again, don't take that picture too literally. It did not actually appear in the episode after all, and they chose not to show the faces in detail at the end. We don't know if it was actually shot that way at all and just cut, or if they are just stand-ins for a test shot or something. In any case, since we don't see the five in the episode, we can't draw any conclusions --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:58, 28 January 2007 (CST)

:Also remember how much Leoben likes mixing truth and lies... "Adama is a Cylon." [[User:Wynler|Wynler]] 11:12, 29 January 2007 (CST)
::XLII your idea was a good one, but there's a flaw in your comparison. As you darken the image of the actor, that face overtakes the face of the Final Five. The jawlines match up, which makes it look like it's the same person, but watch the chin and the upper lip (and the 5 o'clock shadow) in pics 1&2 and 4&5. They're different. --[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 19:44, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:::Even if you forget for a moment that the people in the promo picture are just stand-ins Lee Adama is most defintly '''not''' a Cylon anyway we already worked that out. Because he is the son of someone else who is most definitly not a cylon and the Cylons are not copies of already existing people. See [[Humanoid Cylon speculation]] and [[Characters eliminated from suspicion]] --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])
::::Not to mention that Lee has his fat makeup on there. Even if the images matched up, it wouldn't be a true likeness of Lee/Jamie Bamber.--[[User:Pearse|Pearse]] 18:31, 2 February 2007 (CST)

What if the final five aren't cylons at all, but in fact are part of the priesthood. The whole question "what defines a Cylon" opened by the writers had me thinking... the final five aren't "final" they are the "first" five. They are neither Cylon, nor human and possibly are some related faction to the 13th tribe whom were left behind to fulfull and manipulate things behind the scenes. I do not like the idea of certain main characters being cylons and I believe that this will be the only way to mitigate that unplesant "revelation". I've been pushing hard on the crossroads' talk pages that the final five aren't necessarily cylons and that Tigh certainly is not. --[[User:Baltarstar|Baltarstar]] 22:23, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
:I agree with the idea that they are NOT Cylons but for different reasons. The first problem is the aging/immortality issue since it has been established that the current batch of cylons will live forever (as long as they are not boxed and are in range of a Ressurection Ship or the Cylon Homeworld). My thought is that the main characters who think they are cylons are NOT but rather descendants of the one or more copies of one or more of the models of the Final Five (thus fufulling RDM's promise of "bluring the line between Human and Cylon"). But we will soon see... [[User:Mishakal|Mishakal]] 22:30, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Agreed, I actually was trying to clarify that. I think the final five are actually priests, five priests who continue the tradition of prophecies. Remember, Tyrol's father was a priest AND his mom was an Oracle. HE found the Eye. And finally, and this bugs me, people seem to ignore or overlook the fact that the Cylon Biers had stepped into the Eye's chamber when it was meant for a HUMAN to. SHE saw the final five and had explained that she had made a mistake and apologized. Now... I assume those five priests are the "final five" so-called cylons. But why am I the only person who gets that the other seven models do not KNOW who or WHAT the final five truly are? --[[User:Baltarstar|Baltarstar]] 23:02, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

== D'Anna's Apology ==

Right now this article lists Saul Tigh as being the leading suspect of who D'Anna saw, but I'm not sure if this information should really be included; it's complete speculation on one hand, and on the other... I'm not sure that it really holds merit. Certainly Tigh has endured the most of all the final five at the hands of the Cylon, but D'Anna never really had much involvement with him; on the other hand, she attacked and nearly killed Anders in Downloaded. He would seem to me a more likely suspect of who she saw and felt compelled to apologize to. At the very least, my speculation is no more off bat then the theory that it's Tigh, and that really calls for some change here. [[User:ColonelKevin|ColonelKevin]] 03:59, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

:I think she's talking to Anders, as they have had a [[Downloaded|face-to-face conflict with eachother before]]. She was pretty abusive to him in that episode, and if she saw that he wasn't Human, but a member of the [[Final Five]], she would probably be pretty apologetic....[[User:Zach dax|Zach dax]] 23:51, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

== D'Anna's sketches ==
The two on the right are, in retrospect, clearly Tigh and Anders. I'm not sure about the other ones. The one on the far left is vague enough to be anyone with long hair, or anyone with short hair wearing a hood, and the one in the middle is vague enough to be literally any other woman with a slim face, narrow jawline and straight, shoulder length or longer hair. The one to the near left depicts someone with dark hair and a widow's peak, however no major character other than [[Number Five]] meets those criteria, however they are rough sketches based on blurry memories, so it could be a distorted portrait of Tyrol, Baltar or Roslin. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 22:12, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Final Five/Archive 1

2007-03-29T04:51:58Z

Zach dax:

== Promo Image ==

I took the image into photoshop (I do minor image tweaking at my job), did everything I could to enhance it, just for fun. And I'd like to make a grandiose speculation that the Five look, well, slightly mutilated...or mutated. Botched Cylon experiments, torutred and insane minds!!! I don't know, That one "fellow's" hand reaching to Three looks awefully stumpy...of course it could always be some foreshortening.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 10:57, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Yup, totally convinced they are mutilated and grotesque, their faces, albiet shrouded are just a little odd and produce strange shadow tones.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 11:17, 3 January 2007 (CST)

:It is also possible that the show is intentionally masquerading their faces to allow the show to cast anyone in these roles at a later time, rather than fixing the faces of the characters right away. In any case, any interpretations of these promo shots are too speculative to make a valid assessment. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:38, 3 January 2007 (CST)

We should get rid of the main picture - we don't know for sure that they are in fact the Final Five, they may be simply a hallucation on the part of D'eanna when she resurrects/is boxed.
Or perhaps the five temple priests who are not Cylons. Point is, we don't know --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 06:26, 10 January 2007 (CST)
:Writer's often portray canon information through a character, in this case D'Anna. That is the same vision she always has when she dies, we've already seen a part of the scene on "Hero", and it's what she's been seeing again and again. Her sketches and such are merely her representations of what she saw, this picture is what she actually saw. Anyways, even if you choose to not believe D'Anna, and even if you doubt the only logical explanation, I think David Eick confirmed that it's them she sees on a EW article. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:53, 10 January 2007 (CST)

== ID ==

Looking at the high resolution picture, I can identify most of the actors in these robes. Whether they actually are the Final Five Cylons or whether this is just a dream sequence and they grabbed whoever was convenient is not clear. From the left to the right:

# Aaron Douglas, better known as Chief Tyrol. The stature and facial features are a perfect match.
# Tahmoh Penikett, better known as Helo. This isn't as certain, but the lower face and stature both match.
# Unidentified female
# Unidentified female
# The big, bald Asian pilot who's always in the rec room.

[[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 21:32, 9 January 2007 (CST)

No two cylons can have a child which makes Tahmoh Penikett wrong. Don't know about the others, though the "Chief" guy is certainly too short --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 06:21, 10 January 2007 (CST)

:Major kudos if you are correct, cause I cartainly can't see it myself :P -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 06:27, 10 January 2007 (CST)
::They're just stand-ins, they don't release promo pics at random, and they wouldn't reveal anyone in such a way when having a chance to do it on screen. But as said before, those faces are vague enough to be almost anyone. They might have similarities, but a lot of people in the world can have similar features without looking the same. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:32, 10 January 2007 (CST)

::The thing of it is, is; we're all going to see what we want in them untill we actually see them. I'm pretty sure I'm not right (above comment) and fairly sure when they did these Promo pics and ambiguous #3 "in the hinterlands of Cylon death land" dreams, that they wouldn't have cast definite actors...it's a pretty significant choice to make of who should play the roles...so, stick some people in robes and shrouds to stand in and any old person will do for the snippets, clips, dream scenes and teaser tastys. we won't know 'till we know--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 07:42, 12 January 2007 (CST)

:Personally I think the show would be smart to not put all of their eggs in one basket on this whole final five thing. At least one of the five should be someone we've never seen, one should be someone who is alive and in the fleet and at least one should be someone who was in the fleet that has been dead for a while. Making all of the five sleepers who are in the fleet or making them all dead characters or all new characters wouldn't be very cool. Making it a balance between the three would be nice. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 19 January 2007.

I hate to repeat what's been stated, but I think Philwelch is looking way too hard because I see no one - and I mean ''no one'' familar in that image. Not even a vague similarity. I'm certain they're just stand-ins, but I find it odd that they'd release an image that shows so much, but also expect us not to see a match when the five are revealed. You'd figure they'd put more effort in hiding the faces, just to cover the bases. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 08:43, 22 January 2007 (CST)

== Reason for Locking ==

I don't want the server to flood or 4k people trying to edit this page. Take your time and finsh everything else first. Unprotect this at Midnight. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:21, 21 January 2007 (CST)

== Interpretation question ==

After thinking about this, there are only two individuals that believe that what D'anna/Three has seen is actually images of the final five Cylons: herself, and Baltar. The Colonials scripture know that the Temple of Five was human-built, long before the Cylons existed, and was related to five priests who may have worshiped someone different from the Lords of Kobol. There's plenty of inference (with Kara Thrace, Leoben, [[Dodona Selloi]], and the Threes) that there is a connection between the Lords of Kobol and the Cylon God. My problem is that, while the notion that the final five Cylons has been established, there isn't information ''between'' the characters that verifies that what Three has seen are actual Cylon or human figures.

For that reason, I am going to rewrite this article with a level of neutrality that does not support only Three's belief since there is Colonial connections that exist. The final five represent five human priestly people (blessed, cursed or otherwise cited) or five Cylons (boxed, or related somehow to the origin of the new Cylon, which, after "Rapture," is not clear-cut. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:31, 27 January 2007 (CST)
:Well....RDM called them "The Final Five" in his podcast...--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 10:03, 27 January 2007 (CST)
::The podcast doesn't elaborate on their nature, and Ron has twisted the truth before to keep the storyline a mystery until aired. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:06, 27 January 2007 (CST)

==Three wasn't the Only One==
I think we should also mention that Number Three wasn't the only Cylon to believe they were the Final Five. The Cavils believed it well enough to try to shoot her and even box her. So I think we should at least mention that they too believed Three was seeing the Final Five, enough to essentially eliminate 1/3 of their known female population. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:00, 27 January 2007 (CST)

The light that shines down as the Nova goes is real, and D'anna starts bleeding and dies for no other apparent reason. If it's an illusion in her mind, these things don't match.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 21:22, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:It didn't seem like an illusion, but rather a simple isolate hologram, which wouldn't be surprising since that's the kind of tech these things ususally have in them. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:35, 1 February 2007 (CST)

::The podcast supports the assumption that Three saw the actual Final Five, although I don't think it's explicitly stated. As for the device in the temple, there's quite a few possible explanations and I doubt we'll ever get a definitive answer about which one is correct. The device could've triggered both Three's death and the visions directly, the device could've triggered Three's death, resulting in a vision just like her previous deaths did or the device could've triggered the visions, resulting in Three's death due to some hypothetical built-in failsafe in Three. Each of those three possibilities also has a number of explanations (for example, if the device caused the visions, it may have been a technological substitute for [[chamalla]], it may have been designed to unlock repressed memories or in may have been programmed with the images of the Final Five at any time in the past 4000 years). -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:17, 2 February 2007 (CST)
::: It seems that [[projection]] would be a likely technology behind a vision seen only by here. Why a 4,000 year old temple would be able to do that is nor more a mystery than why it would be able to insert a vision any other way. Further reflection shows this image to possibly be different from the image in the Temple of Athena, which was more holodeck like, and seen by all.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 13:47, 2 February 2007 (CST)

==Warning - possibly big spoiler below==
I was watching Final Five photo, when I noticed face similarity to one of main characters face. I made some photo mainpulating, and results is below.

[http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/9007/finalfivespoilerzq0.png] <-- POSSIBLE HEAVY SPOILER

It gives me around 60-70% sure, that this char is one of Final Five. Yet there are two other things - first - it's possible, that director didn't thought of that, and put this actor there to "fill the gap".

Second - as I've searched through characteristic of this one, I haven't even found slight connections to Cylon, and it would mess with storyline pretty badly.

What do you think about that? --[[User:XLII|XLII]] 16:41, 28 January 2007 (CST)

:Again, don't take that picture too literally. It did not actually appear in the episode after all, and they chose not to show the faces in detail at the end. We don't know if it was actually shot that way at all and just cut, or if they are just stand-ins for a test shot or something. In any case, since we don't see the five in the episode, we can't draw any conclusions --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:58, 28 January 2007 (CST)

:Also remember how much Leoben likes mixing truth and lies... "Adama is a Cylon." [[User:Wynler|Wynler]] 11:12, 29 January 2007 (CST)
::XLII your idea was a good one, but there's a flaw in your comparison. As you darken the image of the actor, that face overtakes the face of the Final Five. The jawlines match up, which makes it look like it's the same person, but watch the chin and the upper lip (and the 5 o'clock shadow) in pics 1&2 and 4&5. They're different. --[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 19:44, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:::Even if you forget for a moment that the people in the promo picture are just stand-ins Lee Adama is most defintly '''not''' a Cylon anyway we already worked that out. Because he is the son of someone else who is most definitly not a cylon and the Cylons are not copies of already existing people. See [[Humanoid Cylon speculation]] and [[Characters eliminated from suspicion]] --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])
::::Not to mention that Lee has his fat makeup on there. Even if the images matched up, it wouldn't be a true likeness of Lee/Jamie Bamber.--[[User:Pearse|Pearse]] 18:31, 2 February 2007 (CST)

What if the final five aren't cylons at all, but in fact are part of the priesthood. The whole question "what defines a Cylon" opened by the writers had me thinking... the final five aren't "final" they are the "first" five. They are neither Cylon, nor human and possibly are some related faction to the 13th tribe whom were left behind to fulfull and manipulate things behind the scenes. I do not like the idea of certain main characters being cylons and I believe that this will be the only way to mitigate that unplesant "revelation". I've been pushing hard on the crossroads' talk pages that the final five aren't necessarily cylons and that Tigh certainly is not. --[[User:Baltarstar|Baltarstar]] 22:23, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
:I agree with the idea that they are NOT Cylons but for different reasons. The first problem is the aging/immortality issue since it has been established that the current batch of cylons will live forever (as long as they are not boxed and are in range of a Ressurection Ship or the Cylon Homeworld). My thought is that the main characters who think they are cylons are NOT but rather descendants of the one or more copies of one or more of the models of the Final Five (thus fufulling RDM's promise of "bluring the line between Human and Cylon"). But we will soon see... [[User:Mishakal|Mishakal]] 22:30, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Agreed, I actually was trying to clarify that. I think the final five are actually priests, five priests who continue the tradition of prophecies. Remember, Tyrol's father was a priest AND his mom was an Oracle. HE found the Eye. And finally, and this bugs me, people seem to ignore or overlook the fact that the Cylon Biers had stepped into the Eye's chamber when it was meant for a HUMAN to. SHE saw the final five and had explained that she had made a mistake and apologized. Now... I assume those five priests are the "final five" so-called cylons. But why am I the only person who gets that the other seven models do not KNOW who or WHAT the final five truly are? --[[User:Baltarstar|Baltarstar]] 23:02, 24 March 2007 (CDT):I think she might be talking to Anders, as they have had a [[Downloaded|face-to-face conflict with eachother before]]. She was pretty abusive to him in that episode, and if she saw that he wasn't Human, but a member of the [[Final Five]], she would probably be pretty apologetic....[[User:Zach dax|Zach dax]] 23:51, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

== D'Anna's Apology ==

Right now this article lists Saul Tigh as being the leading suspect of who D'Anna saw, but I'm not sure if this information should really be included; it's complete speculation on one hand, and on the other... I'm not sure that it really holds merit. Certainly Tigh has endured the most of all the final five at the hands of the Cylon, but D'Anna never really had much involvement with him; on the other hand, she attacked and nearly killed Anders in Downloaded. He would seem to me a more likely suspect of who she saw and felt compelled to apologize to. At the very least, my speculation is no more off bat then the theory that it's Tigh, and that really calls for some change here. [[User:ColonelKevin|ColonelKevin]] 03:59, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

== D'Anna's sketches ==
The two on the right are, in retrospect, clearly Tigh and Anders. I'm not sure about the other ones. The one on the far left is vague enough to be anyone with long hair, or anyone with short hair wearing a hood, and the one in the middle is vague enough to be literally any other woman with a slim face, narrow jawline and straight, shoulder length or longer hair. The one to the near left depicts someone with dark hair and a widow's peak, however no major character other than [[Number Five]] meets those criteria, however they are rough sketches based on blurry memories, so it could be a distorted portrait of Tyrol, Baltar or Roslin. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 22:12, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Final Five/Archive 1

2007-03-29T04:51:45Z

Zach dax:

== Promo Image ==

I took the image into photoshop (I do minor image tweaking at my job), did everything I could to enhance it, just for fun. And I'd like to make a grandiose speculation that the Five look, well, slightly mutilated...or mutated. Botched Cylon experiments, torutred and insane minds!!! I don't know, That one "fellow's" hand reaching to Three looks awefully stumpy...of course it could always be some foreshortening.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 10:57, 3 January 2007 (CST)

Yup, totally convinced they are mutilated and grotesque, their faces, albiet shrouded are just a little odd and produce strange shadow tones.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 11:17, 3 January 2007 (CST)

:It is also possible that the show is intentionally masquerading their faces to allow the show to cast anyone in these roles at a later time, rather than fixing the faces of the characters right away. In any case, any interpretations of these promo shots are too speculative to make a valid assessment. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:38, 3 January 2007 (CST)

We should get rid of the main picture - we don't know for sure that they are in fact the Final Five, they may be simply a hallucation on the part of D'eanna when she resurrects/is boxed.
Or perhaps the five temple priests who are not Cylons. Point is, we don't know --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 06:26, 10 January 2007 (CST)
:Writer's often portray canon information through a character, in this case D'Anna. That is the same vision she always has when she dies, we've already seen a part of the scene on "Hero", and it's what she's been seeing again and again. Her sketches and such are merely her representations of what she saw, this picture is what she actually saw. Anyways, even if you choose to not believe D'Anna, and even if you doubt the only logical explanation, I think David Eick confirmed that it's them she sees on a EW article. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:53, 10 January 2007 (CST)

== ID ==

Looking at the high resolution picture, I can identify most of the actors in these robes. Whether they actually are the Final Five Cylons or whether this is just a dream sequence and they grabbed whoever was convenient is not clear. From the left to the right:

# Aaron Douglas, better known as Chief Tyrol. The stature and facial features are a perfect match.
# Tahmoh Penikett, better known as Helo. This isn't as certain, but the lower face and stature both match.
# Unidentified female
# Unidentified female
# The big, bald Asian pilot who's always in the rec room.

[[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 21:32, 9 January 2007 (CST)

No two cylons can have a child which makes Tahmoh Penikett wrong. Don't know about the others, though the "Chief" guy is certainly too short --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 06:21, 10 January 2007 (CST)

:Major kudos if you are correct, cause I cartainly can't see it myself :P -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 06:27, 10 January 2007 (CST)
::They're just stand-ins, they don't release promo pics at random, and they wouldn't reveal anyone in such a way when having a chance to do it on screen. But as said before, those faces are vague enough to be almost anyone. They might have similarities, but a lot of people in the world can have similar features without looking the same. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:32, 10 January 2007 (CST)

::The thing of it is, is; we're all going to see what we want in them untill we actually see them. I'm pretty sure I'm not right (above comment) and fairly sure when they did these Promo pics and ambiguous #3 "in the hinterlands of Cylon death land" dreams, that they wouldn't have cast definite actors...it's a pretty significant choice to make of who should play the roles...so, stick some people in robes and shrouds to stand in and any old person will do for the snippets, clips, dream scenes and teaser tastys. we won't know 'till we know--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 07:42, 12 January 2007 (CST)

:Personally I think the show would be smart to not put all of their eggs in one basket on this whole final five thing. At least one of the five should be someone we've never seen, one should be someone who is alive and in the fleet and at least one should be someone who was in the fleet that has been dead for a while. Making all of the five sleepers who are in the fleet or making them all dead characters or all new characters wouldn't be very cool. Making it a balance between the three would be nice. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 19 January 2007.

I hate to repeat what's been stated, but I think Philwelch is looking way too hard because I see no one - and I mean ''no one'' familar in that image. Not even a vague similarity. I'm certain they're just stand-ins, but I find it odd that they'd release an image that shows so much, but also expect us not to see a match when the five are revealed. You'd figure they'd put more effort in hiding the faces, just to cover the bases. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 08:43, 22 January 2007 (CST)

== Reason for Locking ==

I don't want the server to flood or 4k people trying to edit this page. Take your time and finsh everything else first. Unprotect this at Midnight. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:21, 21 January 2007 (CST)

== Interpretation question ==

After thinking about this, there are only two individuals that believe that what D'anna/Three has seen is actually images of the final five Cylons: herself, and Baltar. The Colonials scripture know that the Temple of Five was human-built, long before the Cylons existed, and was related to five priests who may have worshiped someone different from the Lords of Kobol. There's plenty of inference (with Kara Thrace, Leoben, [[Dodona Selloi]], and the Threes) that there is a connection between the Lords of Kobol and the Cylon God. My problem is that, while the notion that the final five Cylons has been established, there isn't information ''between'' the characters that verifies that what Three has seen are actual Cylon or human figures.

For that reason, I am going to rewrite this article with a level of neutrality that does not support only Three's belief since there is Colonial connections that exist. The final five represent five human priestly people (blessed, cursed or otherwise cited) or five Cylons (boxed, or related somehow to the origin of the new Cylon, which, after "Rapture," is not clear-cut. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:31, 27 January 2007 (CST)
:Well....RDM called them "The Final Five" in his podcast...--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 10:03, 27 January 2007 (CST)
::The podcast doesn't elaborate on their nature, and Ron has twisted the truth before to keep the storyline a mystery until aired. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:06, 27 January 2007 (CST)

==Three wasn't the Only One==
I think we should also mention that Number Three wasn't the only Cylon to believe they were the Final Five. The Cavils believed it well enough to try to shoot her and even box her. So I think we should at least mention that they too believed Three was seeing the Final Five, enough to essentially eliminate 1/3 of their known female population. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:00, 27 January 2007 (CST)

The light that shines down as the Nova goes is real, and D'anna starts bleeding and dies for no other apparent reason. If it's an illusion in her mind, these things don't match.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 21:22, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:It didn't seem like an illusion, but rather a simple isolate hologram, which wouldn't be surprising since that's the kind of tech these things ususally have in them. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:35, 1 February 2007 (CST)

::The podcast supports the assumption that Three saw the actual Final Five, although I don't think it's explicitly stated. As for the device in the temple, there's quite a few possible explanations and I doubt we'll ever get a definitive answer about which one is correct. The device could've triggered both Three's death and the visions directly, the device could've triggered Three's death, resulting in a vision just like her previous deaths did or the device could've triggered the visions, resulting in Three's death due to some hypothetical built-in failsafe in Three. Each of those three possibilities also has a number of explanations (for example, if the device caused the visions, it may have been a technological substitute for [[chamalla]], it may have been designed to unlock repressed memories or in may have been programmed with the images of the Final Five at any time in the past 4000 years). -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:17, 2 February 2007 (CST)
::: It seems that [[projection]] would be a likely technology behind a vision seen only by here. Why a 4,000 year old temple would be able to do that is nor more a mystery than why it would be able to insert a vision any other way. Further reflection shows this image to possibly be different from the image in the Temple of Athena, which was more holodeck like, and seen by all.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 13:47, 2 February 2007 (CST)

==Warning - possibly big spoiler below==
I was watching Final Five photo, when I noticed face similarity to one of main characters face. I made some photo mainpulating, and results is below.

[http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/9007/finalfivespoilerzq0.png] <-- POSSIBLE HEAVY SPOILER

It gives me around 60-70% sure, that this char is one of Final Five. Yet there are two other things - first - it's possible, that director didn't thought of that, and put this actor there to "fill the gap".

Second - as I've searched through characteristic of this one, I haven't even found slight connections to Cylon, and it would mess with storyline pretty badly.

What do you think about that? --[[User:XLII|XLII]] 16:41, 28 January 2007 (CST)

:Again, don't take that picture too literally. It did not actually appear in the episode after all, and they chose not to show the faces in detail at the end. We don't know if it was actually shot that way at all and just cut, or if they are just stand-ins for a test shot or something. In any case, since we don't see the five in the episode, we can't draw any conclusions --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:58, 28 January 2007 (CST)

:Also remember how much Leoben likes mixing truth and lies... "Adama is a Cylon." [[User:Wynler|Wynler]] 11:12, 29 January 2007 (CST)
::XLII your idea was a good one, but there's a flaw in your comparison. As you darken the image of the actor, that face overtakes the face of the Final Five. The jawlines match up, which makes it look like it's the same person, but watch the chin and the upper lip (and the 5 o'clock shadow) in pics 1&2 and 4&5. They're different. --[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 19:44, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:::Even if you forget for a moment that the people in the promo picture are just stand-ins Lee Adama is most defintly '''not''' a Cylon anyway we already worked that out. Because he is the son of someone else who is most definitly not a cylon and the Cylons are not copies of already existing people. See [[Humanoid Cylon speculation]] and [[Characters eliminated from suspicion]] --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])
::::Not to mention that Lee has his fat makeup on there. Even if the images matched up, it wouldn't be a true likeness of Lee/Jamie Bamber.--[[User:Pearse|Pearse]] 18:31, 2 February 2007 (CST)

What if the final five aren't cylons at all, but in fact are part of the priesthood. The whole question "what defines a Cylon" opened by the writers had me thinking... the final five aren't "final" they are the "first" five. They are neither Cylon, nor human and possibly are some related faction to the 13th tribe whom were left behind to fulfull and manipulate things behind the scenes. I do not like the idea of certain main characters being cylons and I believe that this will be the only way to mitigate that unplesant "revelation". I've been pushing hard on the crossroads' talk pages that the final five aren't necessarily cylons and that Tigh certainly is not. --[[User:Baltarstar|Baltarstar]] 22:23, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
:I agree with the idea that they are NOT Cylons but for different reasons. The first problem is the aging/immortality issue since it has been established that the current batch of cylons will live forever (as long as they are not boxed and are in range of a Ressurection Ship or the Cylon Homeworld). My thought is that the main characters who think they are cylons are NOT but rather descendants of the one or more copies of one or more of the models of the Final Five (thus fufulling RDM's promise of "bluring the line between Human and Cylon"). But we will soon see... [[User:Mishakal|Mishakal]] 22:30, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

Agreed, I actually was trying to clarify that. I think the final five are actually priests, five priests who continue the tradition of prophecies. Remember, Tyrol's father was a priest AND his mom was an Oracle. HE found the Eye. And finally, and this bugs me, people seem to ignore or overlook the fact that the Cylon Biers had stepped into the Eye's chamber when it was meant for a HUMAN to. SHE saw the final five and had explained that she had made a mistake and apologized. Now... I assume those five priests are the "final five" so-called cylons. But why am I the only person who gets that the other seven models do not KNOW who or WHAT the final five truly are? --[[User:Baltarstar|Baltarstar]] 23:02, 24 March 2007 (CDT):I think she might be talking to Anders, as they have had a [[Downloaded|face-to-face conflict with eachother before]]. She was pretty abusive to him in that episode, and if she saw that he wasn't Human, but a member of the [[Final Five]], she would probably be pretty apologetic....[[User:Zach dax|Zach dax]]

== D'Anna's Apology ==

Right now this article lists Saul Tigh as being the leading suspect of who D'Anna saw, but I'm not sure if this information should really be included; it's complete speculation on one hand, and on the other... I'm not sure that it really holds merit. Certainly Tigh has endured the most of all the final five at the hands of the Cylon, but D'Anna never really had much involvement with him; on the other hand, she attacked and nearly killed Anders in Downloaded. He would seem to me a more likely suspect of who she saw and felt compelled to apologize to. At the very least, my speculation is no more off bat then the theory that it's Tigh, and that really calls for some change here. [[User:ColonelKevin|ColonelKevin]] 03:59, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

== D'Anna's sketches ==
The two on the right are, in retrospect, clearly Tigh and Anders. I'm not sure about the other ones. The one on the far left is vague enough to be anyone with long hair, or anyone with short hair wearing a hood, and the one in the middle is vague enough to be literally any other woman with a slim face, narrow jawline and straight, shoulder length or longer hair. The one to the near left depicts someone with dark hair and a widow's peak, however no major character other than [[Number Five]] meets those criteria, however they are rough sketches based on blurry memories, so it could be a distorted portrait of Tyrol, Baltar or Roslin. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 22:12, 28 March 2007 (CDT)

Battle of the Algae Planet

2007-01-28T01:17:49Z

Zach dax:

{{Battle Data
| name=Battle of the Algae Planet
| image=Galactica nukes.jpg
| description=Cylons and Colonials converge on a planet containing the [[Eye of Jupiter]]
| conflict=[[Cylon Attack|Second Cylon War]]
| date=Fourteen days into algae harvesting
| place=The [[algae planet]]
| result=Colonials gain Earth waypoint, [[Hera Agathon]] retrieved, Boxing of all [[Number Three]] units, Capture of [[Gauis Baltar]]
| combatant1=Remnants of the [[Colonial Fleet]]
| combatant2=[[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]
| co1=Admiral [[William Adama]]
| co2=[[basestar command]]
| strength1=orbit:
''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', [[Vipers]], [[Raptors]] 

surface: 
1 Raptor, approx. 12 Marines, Unknown number of drafted civilians
| strength2=orbit:
Four [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]], associated [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]], [[Heavy Raider]]s 

surface: 
2 Heavy Raiders, at least six [[Centurion]]s, One [[Cavil]] and one [[Number Three]]
| shiploss1=1 Raptor damaged, supplies left on planet
| shiploss2=2 Heavy Raiders, several Centurions
| casualties1=[[Omar Fischer]], [[Hillard]]
| casualties2=All [[Number Three]] units [[Boxing|deactivated]]
| prev=[[Battle of NCD2539]]
| next=Unknown
| rdm=y
}}

A discovery of a [[Eye of Jupiter|mysterious religious artifact]] leads to a standoff between [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']] and [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] forces.

Shortly after the [[Temple of Five]] is discovered during day 14 of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]]'s food-collection operations on the [[algae planet]], four Cylon [[basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s jump into orbit. Admiral [[William Adama]] orders all civilian ships to [[jump]] to emergency jump coordinates as the Cylons discreetly deploy one [[Heavy Raider]] to the planet's surface.

Uncharacteristically, the Cylons do not attack, but seek a parley with the Colonials. After a [[wireless]] transmission from the basestars to ''Galactica'', [[Gaius Baltar]], a [[Number Three]], a [[Cavil]], and [[Boomer]] of the basestars' command group come to ''Galactica'' in order to negotiate for control of the [[Eye of Jupiter]], reported to be in the temple. The Cylons claim that if they gain possession, they will leave the Fleet alone and turn over Baltar. Admiral Adama delivers an ultimatum: make any move and ''Galactica'' will destroy the temple with a nuclear strike. For the moment, no agreement is reached, and the Cylons and Baltar leave ''Galactica''.

The Cylons soon jam all Colonial wireless frequencies, but Colonial command manages to relay most of the situation above the planet. On the surface, [[Lee Adama|Major Adama]] develops a plan to defend the temple and their base camp, placing [[Samuel Anders]] in command of all civilians present, and using [[Kara Thrace|Captain Thrace]]'s Raptor, the only one on the surface, for reconnaissance. Chief [[Galen Tyrol]] is ordered to place [[G-4]] packs around the Temple's central spire to destroy the Temple in the event of its compromise.

Meanwhile, [[Cylon Centurion]]s from the first Heavy Raider have established a surface-to-air missile battery. As Starbuck conducts her reconnaissance, she encounters the battery. Evasive maneuvers by Starbuck avoid a direct hit, but her Raptor is disabled and crash-lands.

Six Heavy Raiders are deployed from the basestars toward the planet as part of the Cylons' plan to both defend Baltar and D'anna-Three who are heading to the temple and to call Adama's bluff of destroying the Temple.

Admiral Adama counters by arming and orienting ''Galactica''' to deliver seven nuclear missiles at the surface ([[missile tubes]] 4 through 10) to obliterate the temple, as he had promised during the failed negotiations ([[The Eye of Jupiter]]).

In response, the Cylons recall all but one of the Heavy Raiders (an internal dispute with their [[Number Three]] units and the other Cylons prevent the last recall). Admiral Adama reconsiders the risk and rescinds the missile launch.

On the planet, both Starbuck and her Raptor are generally intact after the crash, but the Raptor's fly-by-wire system is damaged and the pilot has serious burns to her hands, making it impossible to fly.

Lieutenant [[Anastasia Dualla]] is assigned [[SAR]] detail with Sergeant [[Omar Fischer|Fischer]], who is killed in a sniper attack. Dualla manages to reach the Raptor, and, after repairing the damaged [[avionics]], return Starbuck to ''Galactica'', despite her lack of flight training.

Major Adama's team place bombs within a narrow trail where the terrain would require any enemy forces to walk through. Three Cylons enter the kill zone, but detect the bomb before all of them are inside the zone. The Colonial's detonation mostly disables one Centurion, and two retreat, but [[Hillard]] is killed. After a later offensive by the two remaining Cylons, Major Adama calls for a withdrawal of Colonial forces and the destruction of the Temple.

When they try to detonate the ordnance, nothing happens. A small Cylon team, including deposed president [[Gaius Baltar]], entered the Temple moments before and removed the G-4's detonator caps.

The Cylons' official intention, to retrieve information on the whereabouts of Earth, are ignored by the Number Three copy in the Temple. A [[Cavil]] model assigned with the group attempts to kill the Three, but Baltar kills the Cavil unit.

The Colonials witness the sun's nova event. Not wishing to be caught in the shockwave, all Cylon forces jump away. The star's appearance tells the Colonials that the star itself, not anything within, is the Eye of Jupiter marker. The Colonials quickly investigate the Temple to find Baltar (who is rendered unconscious and captured) and two dead Cylons.

All Colonials are quickly retrieved by Raptor back to ''Galactica'' due to the imminent destruction of the algae planet from the nova shockwave. Lieutenant Gaeta is able to use the information about the nova to discern the next waypoint: the [[Ionian system]].

The Cylons, failing to obtain information from the Temple due to the unauthorized actions of the Number Three units, intentionally [[boxing|deactivate]] all Number Three models throughout the Cylon race.

==Notes==
*''Galactica'' departs [[Ragnar Anchorage]] with five nuclear warheads. One warhead is cannibalized to create [[Gaius Baltar]]'s [[Cylon detector]] ([[Bastille Day]]) and ultimately detonated by [[Gina]] on ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). A second warhead is used to destroy a Cylon basestar above Kobol in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", leaving ''Galactica'' with three. ''Galactica'' probably obtained additional warheads from ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' at some point prior to her destruction in "[[Exodus, Part II]]".

<div style="clear: all;"></div>
{{Battles (RDM)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Battle of the Algae Planet

2007-01-28T01:16:00Z

Zach dax:

{{Battle Data
| name=Battle of the Algae Planet
| image=Galactica nukes.jpg
| description=Cylons and Colonials converge on a planet containing the [[Eye of Jupiter]]
| conflict=[[Cylon Attack|Second Cylon War]]
| date=Fourteen days into algae harvesting
| place=The [[algae planet]]
| result=Colonials gain Earth waypoint, [[Hera Agathon]] retrieved, Boxing of all [[Number Three]] units, capture of [[Gauis Baltar]]
| combatant1=Remnants of the [[Colonial Fleet]]
| combatant2=[[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]
| co1=Admiral [[William Adama]]
| co2=[[basestar command]]
| strength1=orbit:
''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', [[Vipers]], [[Raptors]] 

surface: 
1 Raptor, approx. 12 Marines, Unknown number of drafted civilians
| strength2=orbit:
Four [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]], associated [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]], [[Heavy Raider]]s 

surface: 
2 Heavy Raiders, at least six [[Centurion]]s, One [[Cavil]] and one [[Number Three]]
| shiploss1=1 Raptor damaged, supplies left on planet
| shiploss2=2 Heavy Raiders, several Centurions
| casualties1=[[Omar Fischer]], [[Hillard]]
| casualties2=All [[Number Three]] units [[Boxing|deactivated]]
| prev=[[Battle of NCD2539]]
| next=Unknown
| rdm=y
}}

A discovery of a [[Eye of Jupiter|mysterious religious artifact]] leads to a standoff between [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']] and [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] forces.

Shortly after the [[Temple of Five]] is discovered during day 14 of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]]'s food-collection operations on the [[algae planet]], four Cylon [[basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s jump into orbit. Admiral [[William Adama]] orders all civilian ships to [[jump]] to emergency jump coordinates as the Cylons discreetly deploy one [[Heavy Raider]] to the planet's surface.

Uncharacteristically, the Cylons do not attack, but seek a parley with the Colonials. After a [[wireless]] transmission from the basestars to ''Galactica'', [[Gaius Baltar]], a [[Number Three]], a [[Cavil]], and [[Boomer]] of the basestars' command group come to ''Galactica'' in order to negotiate for control of the [[Eye of Jupiter]], reported to be in the temple. The Cylons claim that if they gain possession, they will leave the Fleet alone and turn over Baltar. Admiral Adama delivers an ultimatum: make any move and ''Galactica'' will destroy the temple with a nuclear strike. For the moment, no agreement is reached, and the Cylons and Baltar leave ''Galactica''.

The Cylons soon jam all Colonial wireless frequencies, but Colonial command manages to relay most of the situation above the planet. On the surface, [[Lee Adama|Major Adama]] develops a plan to defend the temple and their base camp, placing [[Samuel Anders]] in command of all civilians present, and using [[Kara Thrace|Captain Thrace]]'s Raptor, the only one on the surface, for reconnaissance. Chief [[Galen Tyrol]] is ordered to place [[G-4]] packs around the Temple's central spire to destroy the Temple in the event of its compromise.

Meanwhile, [[Cylon Centurion]]s from the first Heavy Raider have established a surface-to-air missile battery. As Starbuck conducts her reconnaissance, she encounters the battery. Evasive maneuvers by Starbuck avoid a direct hit, but her Raptor is disabled and crash-lands.

Six Heavy Raiders are deployed from the basestars toward the planet as part of the Cylons' plan to both defend Baltar and D'anna-Three who are heading to the temple and to call Adama's bluff of destroying the Temple.

Admiral Adama counters by arming and orienting ''Galactica''' to deliver seven nuclear missiles at the surface ([[missile tubes]] 4 through 10) to obliterate the temple, as he had promised during the failed negotiations ([[The Eye of Jupiter]]).

In response, the Cylons recall all but one of the Heavy Raiders (an internal dispute with their [[Number Three]] units and the other Cylons prevent the last recall). Admiral Adama reconsiders the risk and rescinds the missile launch.

On the planet, both Starbuck and her Raptor are generally intact after the crash, but the Raptor's fly-by-wire system is damaged and the pilot has serious burns to her hands, making it impossible to fly.

Lieutenant [[Anastasia Dualla]] is assigned [[SAR]] detail with Sergeant [[Omar Fischer|Fischer]], who is killed in a sniper attack. Dualla manages to reach the Raptor, and, after repairing the damaged [[avionics]], return Starbuck to ''Galactica'', despite her lack of flight training.

Major Adama's team place bombs within a narrow trail where the terrain would require any enemy forces to walk through. Three Cylons enter the kill zone, but detect the bomb before all of them are inside the zone. The Colonial's detonation mostly disables one Centurion, and two retreat, but [[Hillard]] is killed. After a later offensive by the two remaining Cylons, Major Adama calls for a withdrawal of Colonial forces and the destruction of the Temple.

When they try to detonate the ordnance, nothing happens. A small Cylon team, including deposed president [[Gaius Baltar]], entered the Temple moments before and removed the G-4's detonator caps.

The Cylons' official intention, to retrieve information on the whereabouts of Earth, are ignored by the Number Three copy in the Temple. A [[Cavil]] model assigned with the group attempts to kill the Three, but Baltar kills the Cavil unit.

The Colonials witness the sun's nova event. Not wishing to be caught in the shockwave, all Cylon forces jump away. The star's appearance tells the Colonials that the star itself, not anything within, is the Eye of Jupiter marker. The Colonials quickly investigate the Temple to find Baltar (who is rendered unconscious and captured) and two dead Cylons.

All Colonials are quickly retrieved by Raptor back to ''Galactica'' due to the imminent destruction of the algae planet from the nova shockwave. Lieutenant Gaeta is able to use the information about the nova to discern the next waypoint: the [[Ionian system]].

The Cylons, failing to obtain information from the Temple due to the unauthorized actions of the Number Three units, intentionally [[boxing|deactivate]] all Number Three models throughout the Cylon race.

==Notes==
*''Galactica'' departs [[Ragnar Anchorage]] with five nuclear warheads. One warhead is cannibalized to create [[Gaius Baltar]]'s [[Cylon detector]] ([[Bastille Day]]) and ultimately detonated by [[Gina]] on ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). A second warhead is used to destroy a Cylon basestar above Kobol in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", leaving ''Galactica'' with three. ''Galactica'' probably obtained additional warheads from ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' at some point prior to her destruction in "[[Exodus, Part II]]".

<div style="clear: all;"></div>
{{Battles (RDM)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

User:Zach dax

2006-12-15T03:19:26Z

Zach dax:

Hello, My name is Zach Schmidt. I am 20 years old and live in Chilliwack, BC, Canada. I have watched Battlestar Galactica since season 2. I have seen every episode. I have been reading this website every week, but just recently became a member.

* In Canada, everthing is printed in English and French. So here goes

Bonjour, mon nom est Zach Schmidt. J'ai vingt ans, et j'habite dans Chilliwack, Colombie britannique, Canada. Je regarde Battlestar Galactica chaque semaine, depuis la saison deux. J'ai vu chaque épisode. J'ai lu cet emplacement de Web pendant plusieurs mois mais juste suis récemment devenu un membre.

Mes caractères préférés sont Gaius Baltar et Laura Roslin. Mon moment préféré est la manoeuvre d'Adama et le Pegasus sauvant le Galactica.

User:Zach dax

2006-12-15T03:17:19Z

Zach dax:

User:Zach dax

2006-12-15T03:17:07Z

Zach dax:

Hello, My name is Zach Schmidt. I am 20 years old and live in Chilliwack, BC, Canada. I have watched Battlestar Galactica since season 2. I have seen every episode. I have been reading this website every week, but just recently became a member.

* In Canada, everthing is printed in English and French. So here goes*

Bonjour, mon nom est Zach Schmidt. J'ai vingt ans, et j'habite dans Chilliwack, Colombie britannique, Canada. Je regarde Battlestar Galactica chaque semaine, depuis la saison deux. J'ai vu chaque épisode. J'ai lu cet emplacement de Web pendant plusieurs mois mais juste suis récemment devenu un membre.

User:Zach dax

2006-12-14T05:43:16Z

Zach dax:

Hello, My name is Zach Schmidt. I am 20 years old and live in Chilliwack, BC, Canada.

Talk:List of pilots/Archive 1

2006-12-14T05:42:25Z

Zach dax:

==Capitalization==

I don't particularly care whether or not the terms Viper or Raptor are capitalized, but according to [[Battlestar_Wiki:FAQ/Proper_BSG_nouns]], they needn't be. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:59, 21 Aug 2005 (EDT)

==Post-Pegasus==

My purpose in maintaining this list was to keep track of the fleet's limited manpower, which was made quite a big deal of in "Act of Contrition". However, the number of possible pilots was clearly exceeded in the episode "Flight of the Phoenix", which seems to indicate that the showrunners are no longer keeping track. Furthermore, the episode "Pegasus" is scheduled to introduce several new pilots, which will probably make this even more difficult and fruitless to keep track of. I see two options here:

*Note that the list covers the events of the Mini-series through "Final Cut" and leave it as a reference to those episodes.
*Reformat to include Pegasus characters but keep track of them separately, using the following outline structure:

*Active
**Galactica
***Vipers
***Raptors
***ECOs
***Others
**Pegasus
***Vipers
***Raptors
***ECOs
***Others
*Deceased
**Galactica
...

or

*Galactica
**Active
***Vipers
***Raptors
***ECOs
***Others
**Deceased
...
*Pegasus
**Active
***Vipers
...

et cetera. Do any of you have any thoughts? Is this even a useful resource, now that the showrunners are apparently not keeping track themselves? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:44, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

: IMHO, I think it is still a useful resource. Pilots are not easily replaced, but the influx of people from the Pegasus will likely cause some issues with this list, skewing the numbers a bit. Just my .02 cubits. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:44, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

: I think it's premature to decide the writers have given up pilot continuity because of one effects continuity error. I would suggest that keeping track as much as possible and making careful judgements as to whether any further sorties seem plausible is still a valuable service. Even with the Pegasus squadron around as an unknown X factor we might get more dialogue indicating the number of pilots in the fleet. -- [[User:Dogger|Dogger]] 21:37, 07 December 2005 (EDT)

I think the actual "numbers" section should be divided into pre- and post-Pegasus. That said, I think the format of having separate lists for "those ''originally from'' Galactica" and "those ''originall from'' Pegasus" should work; for example, if Starbuck ends up on Pegasus for an extended period of time, having her mini-bio in this pilot list put in the Galactica-Pilots list, but within the bio mention "currently assigned to Pegasus". --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:37, 7 December 2005 (EST)

:I think their "current" assignments are more relevant, myself. We can note their origins parenthetically. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:47, 7 December 2005 (EST)

Here's a Q&A with Ron Moore where he's asked about the Flight of the Phoenix number of Vipers. He answers that it was probably just a mistake, but he isn't sure. At least this is acknowledgement of possibly making a mistake. http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm

==Pilots in Sickbay==

I'd like to add something to the pilot number for Act of Contrition when Apollo is talking to Starbuck about washing out the nuggets. I got the idea that when Apollo said he only had 21 pilots for 40 Vipers, he meant he 'currently' only had 21. The 21 wouldn't include the 7 pilots (Raptor or Viper) that were injured and sent to sickbay. These extra 7 pilots could all be Viper pilots or suviving Raptor pilots, we don't really know, but I think this is worth mentioning. It could account for extra pilots in the rest of the series. Ltcrashdown December 23, 2005

:I considered this in an earlier version of this document, and agree that it probably needs to be explicated better. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:56, 23 December 2005 (EST)

Here's some updated information for Lieutenant Emmit from Home (1). This is from the closing credits of the episode. Her character's full name is listed as 'Lt. Emmitt "Sweetness" Jones'. It means that she was refering to herself by her first name during the Striker incident. Ltcrashdown December 23, 2005

I've got a pilot that needs to be added to the list, but I want to make sur it's okay first. Tucker "Duck" Clellan is the pilot. he's from [[Flight of the Pheonix]]. He was there for the cardgame at the beginning in the card game with Starbuck, Racetrack, and Hot DOg. He's also flying a Viper during the Cylon massacre. Ltcrashdown December 25, 2005

==Raptor Pilots==
When Adama recruits Gal-Boomer to fly in KLG2, he says this: "Things are moving very quickly and I need every pilot." We can assume he's not an idiot, and knew that she had just survived a suicide attempt, so she must actually have been his very last competant Raptor pilot. At this time, five raptor pilots were deployed (two dead on Kobol, three or four to Colonial One, depending on whether Apollo was a pilot or passenger) Thus, we can conclude that as of KLG, pt. II, there were no more than six or seven extant raptor pilots. Does this sound fair? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:54, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:Well....a bit too speculative for my personal taste, I must say. Later in season 2 they mention that they have AT LEAST 5 Raptors left. I'm not sure. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:20, 30 December 2005 (EST)

==New Pegasus Pilot==

I'm going to go ahead and add a new pilot to Pegasus's roster. Fei "Freaker" Firelli was listed in the closing credits of Resurrection Ship Part 1, and since there was only one minor pilot in the episode (the one that tangled with Kat during the Dog Fight), I'm listing him under Pegasus. Feel free to delete the change if you disagree with my addition. Unfortunately, the credits rolled too fast for me to check out the actor who played him, but at least we have a name for now. --Ltcrashdown 02:04, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:Oops, my mistake. I doubt anyone caught this, but it was a different pilot tangling with Kat in the dogfight. THis pilot was Richard "Buster" Bayer, according to http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0015.htm and http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407362/guests under the credits for episode 2.11. This corresponds to the barely visible 'Uster' seen under the pilot during the dogfight scene. I guess that "Freaker" is a pilot cut from the episode because I don't remember any other pilots other than the Galactica regulars, Stinger, and Kat. I'll move Firelli to the Viper list and replace Buster on the Pegasus list.

==The Mystery of Freaker==

Peter, thanks for finding an appropriate spot for Fei "Freaker" Firelli. Once I know more about his role, depending on when Resurrection Ship part is re-ran, I'll update it. I consider posting info on obscure pilots to be one of my callings on this wiki-resource.--Ltcrashdown 23:34, 7 January 2006 (EST)

==Cruft Removal==
After chewing on the numbers and reflecting on Galactica's recruitment practices, it's clear to me that keeping track of a maximum number of pilots available is a fruitless exercise. Unless anyone is especially attached to the analysis content of this article, I would like to strike it and reduce the page to a more streamlined list. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:59, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:I'm not sure I agree with striking it altogether, although I don't really care where it goes or what it's paired with. Two reasons: (a) As we have just seen in the Season 2 finale Lay Down Your Burdens, this show can change radically. Recruitment practices that apply today might not be feasible tomorrow. In Season 4 there might three pilots left. You just don't know, is my point. And (b) even if pilot count never becomes an issue again, it most certainly was an issue in the early episodes, so this analysis still have value to resolve arguments about those episodes.--[[User:Dogger|Dogger]] 22:14, 14 March 2006 (CST)

:Just to clarify -- I always thought it was a little bit odd to have the analysis of the numbers of pilots and vipers on the 'List of Pilots' page. To me they serve two entirely different functions: that of 'databasing' or cataloguing show elements, and that of tracking the show's continuity and logic. I have written a proposal for a separate 'Logic & Continuity' page and posted it in My Talk for my user (sorry I don't quite know how to link properly yet). If this page is created, we can move the numerical analysis of pilots to be the first item on it.--[[User:Dogger|Dogger]] 06:18, 16 March 2006 (CST)

==Mentioned-Only Characters==

I'd like to suggest that some of the 'mentioned-only' characters be incorporated into the main body of pilot listings. While some callsigns from the mini may make sens to be listed under 'status unknown', I think names like Beehive and Stubbs should be included in the main Galactica pilot list because it's hard to explain why they are listed at the bottom, while other 'mentioned-only' callsigns or names are put in the main body. If anyone agrees, I'll swap the names out right away. --Ltcrashdown 23:07, 22 February 2006 (EST)

:They're listed at the bottom because unnamed pilots matching their description have been killed since their last appearance. We have no reason not to suspect that Stubbs wasn't the pilot of, say, Raptor 3, gunned down in KLG 2. Thus, he's in the "Status Unknown" category, which is at the bottom, after "Deceased". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:54, 23 February 2006 (EST)

==Season 3 Changes==
I was wondering if we should go ahead and change some of the listed pilot (mainly Starbuck and Duck) to the inactive pilot list to match up with what we've seen of Seaon 3 so far. Whenever the former pilots rejoin the fleet, we can always change it back. Anyone who agrees with this, feel free to let me know what you think should be done. --ltcrashdown
:I concur. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 15:14, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
:I agree, but I wonder if we could somehow revise the page to take a more diachronic approach. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:22, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
::I went ahead and adjusted the notes. Should Lee Adama be added to the inactive pilot list? I notice he's not listed under anything right now. --ltcrashdown
:::Well, given his command of ''Pegasus'', I sincerely doubt that he has had the time to keep up on his flight hours. However, this is more of a conjecture on my part, since nothing for or against this has indicated his pilot status. For instance, I know that command officers who wish to retain an active flight status have to log in a certain amount of hours per month (or evaluation period, IIRC). Since nothing similar has been indicated thus far, I don't know how accurate this is in the BSG universe. We may find out tonight, though. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:26, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:::It would seem odd to list Lee without listing Bill and Saul. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:16, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
::::I agree. However, I've added a section of people who were active pilots post-attack, which deals with the Bill and Saul issue. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:29, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

== Update ==

This list needs a serious update. Since Pegasus is no more, the lists should be merged and every pilot not seen on the chart in The Passage should be moved to "status unknown". There are some new names there, too [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 13:28, 9 December 2006 (CST)
: I agree. Currently this entry is a bit messy and needs a fresh look. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 21:20, 11 December 2006 (CST)
: Perhaps a table system, similar to what is presently used on the [[Military Ranks (RDM)]] article? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:31, 11 December 2006 (CST)
::A few points to any revisers (Talos, that would be you) as the originator of this page (and it was my very first contribution to the wiki): The original purpose here was to keep track of named and unnamed pilots during the pilot shortage which lasted from "Act of Contrition" to "Resurrection Ship, Part II". During this time no continuity errors were ever encountered. In light of this, and the non-issue of pilot availability since the start of the second season, it may be wise to dispense entirely with that function of the page.
::I originally had pilots grouped by ship and specialty (Viper/Raptor/ECO). Since there is now only one ship, and since both Viper pilots like Apollo, Kat and Hot Dog and ECOs like Helo and Racetrack have been repeatedly shown to be competent Raptor pilots, these distinctions no longer seem as relevant. However, it's worth noting that Helo, Athena, Racetrack, and other Raptor-associated pilots have yet to be seen piloting Vipers, and ECO duties continue to be performed by specialists. Perhaps we could whip up a set of icons to use to indicate qualifications (Viper, Raptor and DRADIS icons, maybe?). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:25, 11 December 2006 (CST)
:::FYI, I'm working on a new draft myself. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:52, 12 December 2006 (CST)
::::I agree with your thoughts on the page. I tried to reply late last night but it wouldn't go through. Anyway, what you've done to the page is exactly what I was thinking, even down to the letters to represent qualifications. Good work! --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:41, 12 December 2006 (CST)
:::::Thanks. Do you think someone could whip up some cute icons to replace the V/R/E badges? Maybe a DRADIS display or a radar dish for ECO qualification? Or would that look cluttery? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:00, 13 December 2006 (CST)
:::::I think the V/R/E works, although a little upper pic of a Viper, a Raptor, and maybe a DRADIS screen, colored and almost chibi could work. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:50, 13 December 2006 (CST)

==Raygun==
So I recently "received" this episode, and I noticed that when Adama was putting Kat in her place on the board, the name Raymond "Raygun" Lai was up there. Now We all remember his viper is the one Kara Thrace took out of the museum in the miniseries, so, is he still active? How old is this guy? --[[User:zach_dax|Zach Schmidt]]

Talk:List of pilots/Archive 1

2006-12-14T05:41:00Z

Zach dax:

Botanical Cruiser

2006-12-14T00:20:54Z

Zach dax: Changed FTL status from possibly to yes.

{{Ship Data
| image= Bsg-botanical-cruiser-01.jpg
| race= Colonial
| type= Civilian
| ftl= Yes
| crew= Unknown
| role= Cultivation of plants and foods
}}

The '''Botanical Cruiser''' was a ship, presumably used for creating food from plants or for use as a vacation spot. New President [[Laura Roslin]] visited the ship while gathering a fleet from surviving civilian ships surrounding the colony of [[Twelve Colonies#Caprica|Caprica]]. A young girl named [[Cami]] and her grandmother were on the Botanical Cruiser with many other survivors when the [[Cylon Attack]] occurred.

Unfortunately, the ship lacked an [[FTL]] drive, and the light-speed-enabled part of President Roslin's convoy of refugee ships were forced to leave the Botanical Cruiser and many other [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight]] ships behind when [[Cylon Raider]]s discovered the fleet of ships. All the sublight ships were presumed destroyed by Cylon forces ([[Miniseries]]).

[[Image:BotanicalInFleet.jpg|right|thumb|At least one [[FTL]]-capable ''Botanical Cruiser'' (lower left) escaped the Cylon holocaust.]]
== Notes ==

*The Botanical Cruiser was an homage to the [[Agro Ship|Agro Ships]] from the original ''[[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)]]'', which themselves were re-used models from the botanical spacecraft from the movie ''[[IMDB:Silent Running|Silent Running]]'', a Universal/MCA movie that special effects guru [[John Dykstra]] worked on a few years prior to the Original Series.

*The Botanical Cruiser has cropped up again in the series, primarily in background shots depicting all or most of the Fleet. Reuses of stock footage from the Miniseries, primarily the infamous FTL jump scene have also put the Botanical Cruiser in the Fleet.

*It has also been seen jumping through the radaition field along with other civilian ships to the algae planet in the fleet's quest to find food. ([[The Passage]]).

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]