Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Someone to Watch Over Me/Archive 1

2009-03-02T20:46:31Z

Xenophon10k: /* Kara Thrace/Father */

{{newsection link}}

==Title==
Confusion! Episode 417 is ''Someone to Watch Over Me''. Episode 416 is ''Deadlock'' [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/09/battlestar-galactica-cruise-book.html according to producer Mark Verheiden].--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 19:40, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
:I'll change it. And the admins always watch the recent changes. So you don't have to post stuff like this on all episode pages :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 21:04, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
::Noted. Galactica Sitrep also has a full list for all the writers and directors as well.--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 12:19, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

== Gaeta ==

Gaeta was executed in [[Blood on the Scales]], yet he is listed as guest in this episode. Do we have a definite source for this?
:Just because he's dead, doesn't mean he can't return as a hallucination, or flashback, or dream, or vision etc, like [[Elosha]], Adama's wife, [[Ellen Tigh]] (but that was before we found out she was a Cylon though). -- [[User:Matthew R Dunn|Matthew R Dunn]] 12:37, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
:PS, after looking through the page history, [http://uk.tv.ign.com/articles/877/877683p1.html this is the source]. -- [[User:Matthew R Dunn|Matthew R Dunn]] 12:40, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
:after airing, i didn't see Gaeta. did i miss him?{{unsigned|Erifneerg}}
Nope. Didn't see him in any incarnation at all. I think it was just disinformation to throw off spoilers. Nothing more. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 06:55, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

== Projections ==

Now that we are aware Cylons can project non-existent people, do these "imaginary people" get their own article, or a new page be made for all projections? -[[User:Federationrulz|Federationrulz]] 17:05, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
:Well, there is a page on [[Projection]], it should probably be included there. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:07, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

== Boomer's motivations ==

I think it's really premature to state so conclusively that Boomer's kidnapping of Hera was ordered or orchestrated by Cavil. If the upcoming episodes confirm that, okay, but right now, it is only speculation. Just because Roslin says it doesn't mean it's true.

My impression is that Boomer's actions were more selfish than that. The rebels want to kill her as a traitor, and if Cavil DIDN'T authorize her freeing Ellen Tigh, Cavil is not going to be happy to see her again, either. Hera is the one thing that both sides potentially want, and thus a lever Boomer can use to save her own ass.

Unless the next episode sheds more light on this, I think it's more appropriate to frame that point as a question, e.g., "Did Cavil orchestrate Boomer's 'rescue' of Ellen in order to get his hands on Hera?"

--[[User:Argentla|argentla]] 18:59, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

== Timeline? ==

Currently there is a note that:

"Weeks have passed since the end of the mutiny, as evidenced by Cottle's comment about how long Anders' EKG readings have remained steady."

Cottle's comment is about Ander's "unprecidented, and frankly bizare" readings which "haven't changed in weeks", which occured at the end of episode 16, but later the comment is made that Thigh's "just lost his child", which happend arround the same time.

Is this a contuinuity contradiction or am I missing something?

==The Piano Player==
Although it's quite possible the piano player is Starbuck's father, we don't know this for certain. And this show is known for sending out false signals. (Exhibit A: Tigh being a Cylon). I reworded it slightly, but I would recommend we hold off making such an absolute statement until it's confirmed in one of the remaining episodes. It could be just as possible that Starbuck was projecting. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 15:48, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
:RDM, Bear McCreary and the writers have all confirmed that Slick is indeed a vision of Kara's father. And how is Tigh being a Cylon a false signal? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 16:06, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

== Kara Thrace/Father ==

Just a hunch.. there was talk that the #7 Cylon (Daniel) was a musician or artsy kinda guy. Kara's apparent father is a musician... had to leave his wife and Kara... (his death, by the cavil's).

My Theory ... Kara is an offspring of a Cylon... could explain her resurecction, father, mysterious knowledge of the music... and her connection to final 5/Hera.

I THINK IM ONTO SOMETHING!!!

*Welcome to the other side of the looking glass! It would also explain her tendancy to draw things that she has never actually seen...another talent she shares with Hera. --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 20:46, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Deadlock

2009-02-27T02:13:59Z

Xenophon10k: /* Analysis */

{{Episode Data
| image=Deadlocked.jpg
| title=Deadlock
| season= 4
| episode=16
| guests=
| writer= [[Jane Espenson]]
| story=
| director= [[Robert Young]]
| production=418
| rating=
| US airdate=February 20, 2009 <ref>http://tv.ign.com/articles/920/920164p1.html</ref>
| CAN airdate=Early 2009
| UK airdate=Early 2009
| dvd=
| population=39556
| oldpopulation=39556
| prev=[[No Exit]]
| next=[[Someone to Watch Over Me]]
| forumthread= 2728
}}

== Overview ==
[[Ellen Tigh|Ellen]] and [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] return to the fleet. The Cylons consider leaving.

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===

*A mixed Cylon and human work force is making repairs to the [[Galactica]] using the organic metal [[Chief Tyrol]] described. [[Admiral Adama]] asks if he can touch it. After doing so, he asks the Chief if it is alive.
*In [[Dogsville]] a group of Marines are distributing food. The civilians in line become rather unruly, pushing and shoving despite the Marines assurances that "everyone will get their share."
*[[Caprica Six]] is walking nearby with her head covered. She is recognized by a group of civilians who attack her. She beats them back, but is struck in the process.
*Adama tells Tyrol "This had better work."
*In [[sick bay]] [[Doc Cottle]] tells Caprica and [[Colonel Tigh]] that their baby is perfectly healthy and "has a heart like a kettle drum." He shoos them away but Tigh wants Caprica to stay in sick bay just in case. They have a good laugh about the fact that he doesn't trust the machine. She says that [[Liam]] is fine and she would sleep better at home.
*In [[CIC]] [[Hoshi]] picks up the Raptor that [[Boomer]] and [[Ellen Tigh]] are on, reporting that it was logged as missing over a year ago. The [[CAP]], led by [[Starbuck]], moves to intercept it. Starbuck attempts communication, the transmission is garbled. Boomer acknowledges she can hear them via signal light. A [[Number 6]] flying a [[Heavy Raider]] with the CAP reports that the voice sounds like an Eight. Adama orders the CAP to bring it in
*On the [[Hangar Deck]] Ellen steps out of the Raptor. She states how thrilled she is to see everyone. [[Hot Dog]] wonders aloud "How many dead chicks are out there?" Tigh is elated to see Ellen, and the two kiss passionately. Tyrol approaches Boomer, grins slightly, and says "Nice to see you again." He informs Adama that this is Boomer, and he orders her taken to the [[brig]].

=== Act 1 ===

*In the Admiral's quarters Ellen is speaking with [[President Roslin]], [[Lee Adama]], Colonel Tigh and Admiral Adama. She reports that the destruction of the [[Resurrection Hub]] has resulted in [[Number One]] becoming psychologically unbalanced as he does not feel biological procreation can assure Cylon survival. Noting the wary look on all of their faces she says that she is still the same Ellen and asks if anyone has a flask. Adama hands her one. She reports that Boomer helped her escape and hopes they won't treat her too badly. She asks to see the rest of the [[Final Five]]. Ellen says they are like family, asking the others to imagine what it would be like if, instead of 50,000 survivors, there were only 5 and how close they would all be. She asks Tigh how much he remembers. He replies "just flashes." Lee tells her about the condition of [[Sam Anders]]. She asks to see him and the others. Adama says he'll see what he can do, exchanging concerned glances with Lee and Roslin.
*Once Ellen and Tigh are alone, he tells here there is so much to ask her and tell her. She is not interested in talking, asking him "floor or table?" He says that he doesn't care, and she sweeps everything off the table. Just before they make love, Tigh briefly projects that she has the face of a Six.
*Meanwhile, in Tigh's quarters, Caprica Six has a sudden flash of pain. She drops the bowl she is eating from, clutches her belly and groans.
*The followers of [[Gaius Baltar]] are loading pistols and discussing supplies as he walks in. [[Jeanne]] is excited to see him, running over and kissing him immediately. [[Paulla Schaffer]] is somewhat less enthusiastic, saying that they "wondered if he was coming back." He replies that his return was always a matter of course and asks what he missed. She states that people started stealing their food, prompting them to take guns from the bodies of dead mutineers once they realized they had "been abandoned." He replies that he never abandoned them, prompting Jeanne to amend "abandoned by God." He replies that he knew his extended absence would teach them self-reliance and that is why he stayed away for so long. Paulla sarcastically remarks that is very wise of him. Baltar's [[Virtual Six]] appears to tell him that "The sheep have a new shepherd."
*Ellen and Tigh are getting dressed. She compliments him on his sexual technique and asks who he's frakked. She states that after thousands of years of marriage she is quite familiar with his lovemaking style, adding that she's not mad as he thought she was dead. He admits to sex with a Six but added he always thought of her. She reminds him of the incestuous nature of the relationship as they created the Sixes and is not happy about being his "mental porn." He admits that he is still seeing Caprica but does not mention Liam.
*Adama is once again inspecting a work area.
*In sick bay, an Eight, a Six, [[Tory Foster]], Tigh, and Tyrol are visiting Anders. Cottle tells them not to unplug anything. Ellen enters and says that this was "how it was" as she gently brushes Sam's cheek. The Six tells her that the others are considering jumping away and starting a new life with the Final Five. Tigh is incredulous at the suggestion that they abandon the fleet. The Eight says they are not safe there, mentioning the attack on Caprica. Tory agrees, leading Tigh to accuse her of plotting this all along and argue that Sam could not survive on the baseship. The Eight disagrees, and Ellen tries to change the subject by saying "Caprica Six is pregnant?" She argues with Tigh, but Tyrol says the two should stick to the matter at hand and argue in private. The Eight says they should have a binding vote as that is the way the Five taught the other Cylons. Tory and Tyrol vote to go, Tigh votes to stay and points out that is exactly what Sam said they should do before losing consciousness. Ellen abstains and walks out the door, leaving the Five deadlocked.
*Paula leads Gaius and the others to Dogsville. Jeanne remarks on their improved living conditions since arming themselves. Gaius greets a beautiful young woman with a small boy. She says that her name is Naya and her son is named Gaius, after his father (implying that he is Baltar's child). Gaius asks Gaius if he is hungry, to which the boy nods. Baltar makes a grand speech promising to feed all the people of Dogsville. Naya embraces him in gratitude, but Paula is not happy about it.
*Roslin walks up to Caprica in the corridors of Galactica. She congratulates her on her pregnancy and personally apologizes for the assault in Dogsville. She mentions their shared visions, and Caprica says she has not had them since becoming pregnant. Laura says she has not either and asks if this child is "important." Caprica pretends to not know what she means stating that all children are important and walks off.
*Tyrol walks into [[Joe's Bar]] and orders a drink. Starbuck is there and remarks on how watching Ellen and Tigh felt like watching her parents make out. She asks Tyrol if he has visited Boomer in the brig. He says no. She suggests that he do so while she is sleeping, and says that she could no longer stand to watch Sam sleeping. Tyrol takes a bottle and walks out. Starbuck plays with the bullet removed from Sam's brain.
*Adama is inspecting the repairs yet again.
*Ellen walks into to Tigh's quarters and tells Caprica they should talk. In explaining her relationship with Saul she lets it slip that they made love, and realizes from the look on Caprica's face that she did not know. Ellen tells her not to worry as their baby is living proof that Tigh loves her. Ellen remarks that they tried to have children earlier, implying that he does not love her as much, and reassures Caprica she will not make him choose between them.
*In Dogsville Gaius and company are distributing food. Paula makes a worried remark that when the Marines tried this a riot broke out, but Gaius states that here there are no uniforms, assault rifles or other symbols of oppression. A group of rough-looking men led by [[Enzo]] walk up to them and demands they surrender their food. Gaius defies him and asks his followers to show they are armed. When they nervously do so Enzo replies "ours are bigger" and the strong-arm men pull out Colonial military sidearms. They take the food and walk away.
*Adama and Tigh are getting drunk. Adama has clearly had more and is constantly refilling his glass. He asks Tigh if there have been any "mythic revelations" since Ellen's return, to which Tigh replies "Nothing new to report, sir." Adama asks if Tigh was actually born on Earth. Tigh nods. Adama states that is "not very machine-like" of him. Tigh jokingly defends his machinehood by saying his "great-grandpa was a power sander." They have a good laugh. Adama confesses to mixed feelings about using Cylon technology to repair Galctica, fearing that she will no longer know who she is, but that combined with Cylons flying CAP might just be enough for the fleet to survive. He says that he needs the help of the Cylons in general and Tigh in particular, and Lee and Laura know it. Tigh has no response to this.
*Gaius dresses Paula down for not telling him that the [[Sons of Ares]] have begun hoarding food. Paula replies that this should have been obvious. Virtual Six appears and asks Gaius if he really wanted to feed those people, to which he replies that it felt good to help people. Six tells him to give his people the hope that Paula can't. He proceeds to berate his followers for "lapping up Paula's icy pragmatism." At Six's prompting he promises to get them "more guns, bigger guns, better guns!" The cultists are quite enthusiastic about the idea.
*Adama inspects the repairs, again.
*Ellen and Tigh meet alone. He tells her to hate him if she must but Galactica needs the [[Rebel Basestar]]. She ignores him, asking why he made love to her when his real love is at home. Tyrol and the others enter, leading Tigh to realize that this meeting was anything but private. Ellen says she has voted to join the baseship and they are leaving. Tigh refuses to leave, pointing out the millenia long cycle of human/machine violence and claiming that only by coming together can either form of intelligence hope to survive. Ellen seems to gloat, pointing out to Caprica that there is something he loves more than her and the baby, namely Galactica and Adama. Caprica grabs her stomach, groans and falls over.
*In sickbay, Cottle tells Tigh, Ellen and Caprica that the baby is fighting back. Tigh blames Ellen, stating that she should have known what forcing him to choose would mean. She apologizes, saying she was only trying to hurt Saul and of course humans and Cylons should stay together. Caprica yells at them to stop fighting. Ellen walks away, but then walks back to put her hand on Saul's shoulders.
*Adama is once again inspecting the repairs.
*Ellen tells Tigh to talk to the now sleeping Caprica and tell her that he loves her. He tries, but is unable to and asks why he should have to say it when she knows he feels it for all of them.
*Adama is still inspecting the repairs.
*Liam's heart rate drops. Caprica begs Cottle to cut it out of her, even if it means her death. Cottle refuses, stating that not even a Cylon baby could possibly survive outside the womb after only four months. Ellen tells her that Tigh loves her more and promises to go to the basestar so that the three of them can be a family. Liam flatlines. Tigh says that it is his fault and he is sorry. Cottle shoos them away. Caprica cries the cry of the bereaved mother.
*Gaius is talking to Lee, Roslin and Adama. Adama refuses to listen at first, saying that he is going to the head for a "project I've been working on." Gaius stops him, warning him that the decreased security in Dogsville resulting from losing so many Marines during the mutiny is causing a revolution to brew. He states that Adama has two options for stopping it. He can either bring Centurions over from the baseship or take the "last human solution" that Baltar is offering him.
*Apparently Adama has agreed to arm Baltar's cultist as some kind of auxiliary security force, as the Marines are passing out assault rifles to them. Paula is impressed. Gaius clearly has no idea how a rifle works.
*Tyrol comes to visit Boomer in the brig while she is sleeping.
*In sick bay Sam's brain waves suddenly become very active.
*Tigh enters Adama's quarters weeping uncontrollably and nearly collapses. Adama says that Liam is a good name, short for William. Tigh says that "it's not like that." Adama embraces and comforts him.
*Roslin and Adama are walking arm in arm through the [[memorial hallway]]. Laura notices a Six putting up pictures of the Cylons who have been lost since joining the Fleet. Laura is taken aback, stating "Oh my Gods, it's already happening isn't it?"
*Adama touches the ID of an Eight.

=== Act 2 ===

=== Act 3 ===

=== Act 4 ===

== Notes ==

== Analysis ==
*Cylon pilots have begun participating in the CAP with Heavy Raiders, presumably because of a shortage of Colonial pilots. This could indicate that Adama has stood by his pledge to offer no forgiveness to those involved in the mutiny - like Racetrack, Skulls, and Narcho - and that they have been either imprisoned, executed, or purged from the military.
*Foster's plan to rebuild a pure Cylon society seems ill-considered even in light of the unborn Tigh baby. There is no evidence that pairings of Number Twos with Number Sixes or Number Eights will suddenly be fertile after so many failures. All the pregnancy really proves is that the Final Five could reproduce with Twos, Sixes, and Eights, which is hardly a broad genetic base.
*In this episode, Ellen Tigh shows more characteristics of the "old Ellen", though she is still more intelligent and compassionate. Adama once said that Ellen brings out Saul's worst instincts, obviously the reverse is also true.

== Questions ==
* Are the Cylons now flying regular joint CAPs with ''Galactica'''s vipers?
* What will be the consequences of Baltar's cult being given access to weapons?
* What will happen to Boomer?
* Why was a random Eight and Six at Anders's side urging Ellen to go to the Baseship and jump away and not Caprica Six and Athena? The same later when Ellen confronted Tigh and made Tigh choose between the baby and Galactica? Caprica Six was there that time but why wasn't Athena?
** Like Tigh, Athena would have never agreed to abandon the Fleet.
* How did the Cylons imagine they could take Anders aboard their Baseship without Starbuck's approval?
* Why has Anders' brain suddenly started showing activity again? What is his exact condition? Does he still possess his Cylon memories?
* Will Caprica seek revenge on Ellen for the death of her unborn child?
* How will the death of Liam affect Ellen and Saul's relationship? How will it affect Saul and Caprica's relationship?
* What was the actual cause of the death of Caprica's baby?
* How did Ellen and Boomer find the Fleet? Is Cavil tracking them?
* Why was Tyrol so eager to leave the Fleet? ([[Deadlock#Official Statements|Answer]])
* Is Tyrol able to identify the Eight piloting the Raptor as Boomer due to his personal experience with her, or by the previously demonstrated ability of Cylons to distinguish between copies by sight?
* What has happened to Helo? Is he still recovering from his injuries received in [[The Oath]]?
* Who has been placing photographs of Cylons on the memorial wall? Other Cylons, Colonials or both?
* Will any of the humans object to the Cylon pictures?
* How close will the Cylon and Colonial pilots become now that they fly together? Will the Cylon pilots receive callsigns?

== Official Statements ==
*Aaron Douglas addresses the Chief's vote on his livejournal community<ref> http://community.livejournal.com/aarondouglas/150842.html?thread=972858 </ref>:
**Galen does not believe that he and the other Cylons will ever be accepted in the fleet.
**He is the Chief in name only, because Adama asked him to be. This was a recognition of the fact that he is the best person to fix the ship, not true acceptance.
**He has no strong emotional ties to ''Galactica'''s people now that he knows Nicky isn't his son.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Upon seeing Ellen Tigh emerge from the Raptor:''

:[[Brendan Costanza|Hot Dog]] (with Starbuck standing right next to him): How many dead chicks are out there?

*''Tyrol examines Boomer for a moment before figuring out who she is''
:[[Galen Tyrol]] (to Boomer): Nice to see you (she smiles; to Adama) This is Boomer.
:Adama: Marines!
:Marine: Sir!
:Adama: Take this Number Eight to the brig!

*''Dr. Cottle remarking to Tory, Tyrol, a Number Six and a Number Eight gathered around Anders's bedside in vigil:''
:[[Cottle]]: Lot of visitors. Just don't anybody unplug anything!

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[S. Cottle]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Roark Critchlow]] as Piano Player
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lieutenant [[Brendan Costanza|Brenden "Hotdog" Constanza]]
* [[Keegan Connor Tracy]] as [[Jeanne]]
* [[G. Patrick Currie]] as [[Enzo]]
* [[Brad Dryborough]] as Lieutenant [[Louis Hoshi]]
* [[Lara Gilchrist]] as [[Paulla Schaffer]]
* [[Rebecca Davis]] as [[Naia]]
* [[Merwin Mondesir]] as Marine #1
* [[Tammy Gillis]] played Marine #2
* [[Bear McCreary]] as [[Joe's bar]] patron (uncredited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Jane Espenson]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Robert Young]]

Talk:No Exit/Archive 1

2009-02-14T16:39:53Z

Xenophon10k: /* Call Sheet */

==Call Sheet==

Can anyone please sharpen the image of the sheet and put the contents here? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:33, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

How can Ellen download without resurrection technology? Does that mean that Ellen is not in the womb of Caprica 6? (Or does Caprica 6 and/or child die forcing resurrection?) Which basestar has she resurrected on?
[[User:Seven of Nine|Seven of Nine]] 12:25, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
:Ellen died and resurrected at the time of the exodus from New Caprica, months before the destruction of the Resurrection Hub. Don't forget, they do flashbacks that follow the events that happened since, such as the algae planet. -- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 10:34, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Found a major plot hole regarding the Journey of the Five. Anders states that they traveled at near-light speed from Earth to the Colonies, resulting in a time dilation effect. Time passed slower aboard the ship than it did in real space. Since Earth was nuked 2000 years ago, then that means 2000 years passed in real space while a considerably shorter amount of time passed aboard the Five's space ship. We don't know the exact amount of time that passed aboard the ship, but it is safe to assume that it would have been considerably less than 2000 years. The question becomes: how far does the ship travel? If the time dilation effect results in 2000 years passing in real space, then the Five space ship must have traveled at most only a few light years to reach the colonies. If, for example, only 5 years pass aboard the Five ship and they are traveling close to light speed, then they can only travel a bit less than 5 light years to reach their destination. Which means the Colonies and Earth are *much* closer to each other than the series has let on. Even given a roundabout journey by the RTFF, the distance to the Algae Planet alone would have to be very close in order for the Five to stop and plant clues there, to say nothing of the virus probe or the possibility that the Five built the Star Map on Kobol as well.

[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 08:26, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
:The ship you mentioned could be sent on its journey years before the Earth's nuclear holocaust. We could even see Allen telling her husband he would be resurrected in one flashback of the holocaust. So this Final Five resurrection ship was quite obviously already on its way to the 12 colonies by the time of the holocaust. A Problem may it be that we have no idea how the final five back on Earth have ever come to acknowledge the existence of Cylons made by the twelve tribes or rather the fact that by the time they are actually going to be constructed by the twelve tribes. -- [[User:FNj|FNj]] 14:28, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

:Are you certain you have the right reference frame? It seems to me that if 2000 years passed outside of a ship traveling close to c, then it would have traveled a significantly high fraction of 2000 light years. If we could launch a ship to Alpha Centauri at 99% of c, then those of us on Earth would see it arrive in around 5 years (leaving aside time for acceleration/deceleration), not 100, 1000, or 2000 years. However, anyone on board might only experience a few months. -- [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 16:39, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

The Oath

2009-02-05T00:41:57Z

Xenophon10k: /* Analysis */ edited for readibility

{{Episode Data
| image=4x12 - Promo Pic - Tyrol Lee - The Oath- .jpg
| title= The Oath
| season= 4
| episode=13
| guests=
| writer= [[Mark Verheiden]] <ref name="verhblog">{{cite_web|url=http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/04/battlestar-galactica-episode-415.html|title=Mark Verheiden's blog: Battlestar Galactica - Episode 415!|}}</ref>
| story=
| director= [[John Dahl]] <ref name="verhblog"/>
| production=415
| rating=
| US airdate=January 30, 2009 <ref>http://tv.ign.com/articles/920/920164p1.html</ref>
| CAN airdate=January 30, 2009
| UK airdate=February 3, 2009
| dvd=
| oldpopulation= 39644
| population= 39643
| prev=[[A Disquiet Follows My Soul]]
| next=[[Blood on the Scales]]
| forumthread=2490
}}

==Overview==
''The opposition to the alliance with the rebel Cylons reaches its zenith, [[Felix Gaeta]] leads a mutiny aboard Galactica and frees [[Tom Zarek]] from prison.''

==Summary==
===Teaser===
* In Admiral [[William Adama|Adama's]] quarters, the admiral offers the entering [[Saul Tigh]] a cup of algae-ground coffee, which Tigh refuses. Tigh reports that civilian captains are refusing to allow the rebel [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] to refit their [[FTL|jump]] drives for longer range.

* As Tigh continues his report, [[Laura Roslin]] enters from the bathroom, dressed only in a bathrobe and carrying a book. Her smile seems to indicate her enjoyment of Tigh's mild shock at her candid appearance and its implications.

* Gathering his composure, Tigh continues. The [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet's]] attitude toward all Cylons ([[Final Five|Tigh included]]) would make it challenging for Tigh to solve the problem. Adama agrees.

* [[Felix Gaeta]] arrives at [[Tom Zarek]]'s cell in the [[brig]], accompanied by several [[marines]] and other crew. A crewman informs Gaeta that [[Narcho]] and Private Paley have secured a [[small arms locker]].
* Gaeta and Zarek talk about how to keep the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum]] from reacting badly to their plans, particularly [[Lee Adama]]. Gaeta advises Zarek to push Representative Adama's buttons, since he's "good at that."

* In the admiral's quarters, Roslin discusses the Fleet's issues [[A Disquiet Follows My Soul|for the first time in days]]. She and Adama both agree that the alliance with the rebel Cylons, and general amnesty they were given is not working, and that Lee Adama may not be able to convince the quorum otherwise. Roslin has to force herself to stop talking about the Fleet's problems, and the two say goodbye with affectionate small talk about having dinner ready for Adama when he returns from his shift.

* Gaeta's team escorts Zarek to the [[hangar deck]]. When [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]] sees them, she yells out, pretending that her [[Raptor]] has a serious fuel leak. This effectively clears most of the deck's occupants out, but [[Jeanne]] lingers unseen in the upper gangway above the deck, and observes everything.

* As Racetrack tells Gaeta that she's disabled the Raptor's transponder, Deck Chief [[Peter Laird]] steps in, questioning the authorization for the Raptor's departure. When Laird is not dissuaded from calling [[CIC]] to verify the ship's use, Zarek quietly picks up a wrench and strikes Laird on the skull, killing him. Jeanne swiftly runs from the gangway, having witnessed the murder.

* When Gaeta reacts in shock to Zarek's action, the Vice President tells Gaeta not to hold on to some "operatic ideal" of how his "revolution" must be handled; any hesitation could jeopardize their plans.

===Act 1===

* In [[CIC]], [[Hoshi]] notes a ship launch that he can't authenticate in the flight log--and [[DRADIS]] does not show any [[IFF|transponder ID]]. Gaeta, taking his place at his station, stalls Hoshi, advising him to look at other logs from the flight deck.
* When Tigh tells Adama quietly that he has had had [[Nowart]] gather marines for further action to compel other civliian ships to comply, Adama warns that doing the same thing as was done with the ''[[Hitei Kan]]'' a few days prior would likely destroy the likelihood of anyone in the Fleet supporting the fragile Cylon alliance.
* Hoshi continues to try to verify the flying contact as Gaeta tries to stall.

* On ''[[Colonial One]]'' as Lee Adama tries to placate an agitated Quorum, Zarek returns, to everyone's shock.

* [[Diana Seelix]] meets with [[Samuel Anders]] in one of the officer's quarters. She slyly talks about her attraction to him as other crew sneak up, blindfold and savagely beat him.

* As Adama hands Private [[Jaffee]] a log to file, Hoshi reports of a fire near the ship's [[wireless]] antenna array. As Adama gives orders for damage control teams to handle the issue, Gaeta warns that the "fire" might not be an accident. Adama agrees and orders [[marines]] to accompany the DC teams.

* In another officer's quarters, [[Kara Thrace]] jokes with [[Brendan Costanza]] and his new [[Nicholas Tyrol|fatherhood]], commenting how her decision of his pilot nickname of "Hotdog" was an apt one. Constanza angrily replies that Thrace has "[[frak]]ked half the Fleet" and has nothing to show for her similar indiscretions. Thrace throws her bowl of food as Constanza leaves.
* A split second later evacuation alarms ring out. When Thrace steps out to ask Narcho why he, a pilot, is handling damage control, Narcho nastily spurns her senior rank: "Nobody even knows [[The Destiny|what you are]] anymore."
* When Thrace sees a mix of marines and other civilians heading in the opposite direction, she follows them on gut reaction.
* Thrace sees the people break into a small arms locker, arming themselves, with [[Charlie Connor]] issuing orders to both military and civilian personnel. She runs back to her quarters grabs her sidearm and ammo and calls CIC. Gaeta ignores her warning of the break-in. Thrace quickly deduces what's going on.

* On ''Colonial One'', Lee Adama also tries to call his father regarding Zarek's release, but Gaeta blocks Adama's attempt to reach the admiral by claiming that the admiral is busy. Gaeta also feigns ignorance about Zarek's release.
* Zarek steps in, telling Lee that the admiral released him because Zarek would not be a threat if Adama didn't recognize civilian authority. Lee believes otherwise, and leaves for ''Galactica''.

* Gaeta fakes a shipwide communications failure, including backup systems.
* Lee Adama arrives on the hangar deck from his Raptor and is immediately accosted by [[Skulls]] and several others, intent on killing him as Racetrack watches on. "Where are your precious Cylons now?" Connor says as a marine points a gun to Adama's head.
* A shot rings out, but not from the gun Adama stares into. Kara Thrace has shot the marine with the gun and orders Adama's release. When Skulls objects, Thrace doesn't hesitate a second to shoot Skulls in the shoulder. "I can do this all day," she warns, pulling out a second sidearm.
* As Adama runs out, Thrace follows, warning the rest, "Follow me. Please," so she could have a better excuse to shoot them as well.

* As [[Sharon Agathon]] feeds her [[Hera Agathon|daughter]], [[Karl Agathon]] gets his uniform on and warns Sharon to get Hera to daycare.
* Just then, the hatchway on their quarters is being jostled. Someone is trying to get in, and soon succeeds: an angry mob, led by [[Gage]], a former ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' crewman who remembers Agathon's role in the accidental death of [[Alistair Thorne]].
* Gage gloats that he plans on raping Sharon Agathon later as marines beat Helo into unconsciousness.

===Act 2===

* Thrace and Lee Adama seal themselves in a dry storage locker, reviewing what's happened. "Semper frakkin' fi," Thrace hisses after checking a phone, discovering it dead. Adama is astonished how people he's trusted have turned mutinous. He realizes the hangar deck was only the beachhead to a ship-wide takeover of the ship.
* Thrace passionately kisses Lee and tells him she hasn't felt this alive in weeks. They leave to work out what to do, gather people who will help. They try to make their way to [[CIC]]. As they move through the corridors of the ship, they hear gunfire and screams in the distance.
* They pass by several unidentified bodies as well as groups of huddled civilians trying to stay out of the crossfire. A marine pursues a group of armed civilians and exchanges gunfire with them. The duo encounter an unidentified crewman with a pistol who yields to them, suggesting that he is an ally, then continues on.
* CIC is in confusion as Gaeta continues to throw false report after report, keeping Tigh and the admiral off-base.
* The Agathons are thrown in the Cylon brig along with [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Samuel Anders]]. Caprica-Six warns that this is a start to eradicating the Cylons, especially their children. Athena reassures her that they'll be kept alive for now as bargaining chips.
* As Jaffee returns to report that the array's damage was faked, Gaeta initiates the final phase of the takeover, calling in several marines who are part of the mutiny, who encircle Adama and the startled CIC staff. A handful of marines who are not involved remain in the room as well. When one of Gaeta's marines signals as though he is about to shoot the Admiral, Jaffee takes the bullet for him, receiving a fatal wound in the process.
* A firefight ensues, and several marines are killed, including those who are not involved in the mutiny. Gaeta orders his men to cease fire, then orders Adama and his staff to stand down, which the admiral reluctantly agrees to do, despite Tigh's anger.
* Gaeta tells Adama that he is removing him from command of ''Galactica'' on the charge of treason.
* Adama accuses Gaeta of betraying his oath and uniform, while Gaeta retorts that the admiral has done that himself by allying with the Cylons.
* Adama angrily warns that, unlike in times past, there will be no forgiveness or amnesty for this takeover.
* Gaeta orders the marines to arrest Adama, Tigh, and the senior staff and to place them in a holding cell.

===Act 3===

* Kara Thrace and Lee Adama make it to the admiral's quarters, finding Laura Roslin there, telling her of the uprising, the communications blackout and that Zarek is in control on ''Colonial One.''
* Roslin has had enough; she puts on her coat and leads them all out, knowing of one way to get a message out over wireless.

* Gaeta, now commanding CIC, orders [[Redwing]] and his marine team to secure the engine room. Specialist Gage now sits in Gaeta's old station.

* Surrounded by [[Cult of Baltar|his followers]], [[Gaius Baltar]] wishes his group well as he prepares to leave, believing that the uprising will come to get him as well. [[Galen Tyrol]] confirms Jeanne's fears to Baltar.
* As Roslin, Thrace and Lee Adama arrive, Tyrol briefs them. Using secured wireless handhelds, Tyrol has learned that the admiral is in custody. He tells him that he's in control of an airlock that could be used to get Adama off the ship. When Lee asks why Tyrol is doing this, Tyrol tells him that the "[[The Old Man|old man]]" deserves a better fate.

* Tigh and Adama begin speaking to their two marine escorts, Nowart and Maldonaldo. Adama challenges Nowart to shoot him and questions whether Nowart has "got a pair." The distraction works. Tigh and Adama manage to turn the tables, Adama shooting Maldonado and taking Nowart hostage.

* Roslin and Baltar talk. She knows that Baltar's pirate wireless transmitter that he's used to communicate to his followers throughout the Fleet could be used to warn others in the Fleet as well.

* Adama and Tigh watch Connor give orders to other mutineers. Nowart tells them that he was ordered to take them all to the brig. They head there.

* CIC communications are being besieged by confused voices from other Fleet captains as Laura Roslin's voice begins to talk to the Fleet, telling them all, including the Quorum, of the uprising, pleading all to follow the rightful authorities. Gage is unable to stop the pirate signal until Gaeta gets to the station to jam it. But now the Fleet's comm chatter worsens, asking for more information from Roslin and what is happening on the battlestar.

* Lee and Thrace meet up with Adama and Tigh in the brig. Thrace angrily reacts to Nowart's presence as Adama tells him to leave. Thrace shoots at Nowart's way, warning the admiral that they are not his men anymore.

===Act 4===

* In the secondary storage airlock, Roslin and Baltar talk about Gaeta and his duplicitous nature.
* As Adama and team make their way there, Baltar takes a moment to try to get Gaeta to stop his takeover. He reminds him of their failings on [[New Caprica]], suggesting that Gaeta was complicit with the Cylon occupation. Gaeta closes the channel.
* A Raptor is heading towards ''Galactica'' from the [[Rebel Basestar|Cylon baseship]], but Gaeta realizes the craft isn't heading for the hangar deck.

* The Raptor docks in the bay, piloted by an [[Number Eight|Eight]]. Roslin and Adama greet each other and kiss, causing Lee and Thrace to look at each other in surprise. Tyrol's men get word of marines heading their way.
* Baltar and Roslin board the Raptor, but the admiral orders Tyrol to get Lee and Thrace out and back to his secured area. He and Tigh choose to stay behind to ensure that the Raptor gets away.

* Gaeta orders the [[CAP]] to intercept and destroy the escaping Raptor as the episode ends.

* The marines, led by [[Aaron Kelly]], use welding torches to cut through the airlock locks and open the door slightly. Adama returns fire. "It's been an honor to serve with you, my friend," Adama tells Tigh, as marines throw a flash grenade through the doors.

==Notes==
*In the previous episode, it was said that two marines were killed by the rebellious crew of the tylium ship. Yet in this episode, the survivor count is down by just one - accounting for Laird's death prior to the opening sequence. This can be explained by births in the fleet.

== Analysis ==
*Quite a few people have sided with Zarek and Gaeta. These include pilots [[Noel Allison|Narcho]], [[Margaret Edmondson|Racetrack]], [[Hamish McCall|Skulls]], [[Paolo McKay|Redwing]] and [[Diana Seelix]], marines [[Maldonaldo]] and [[Allan Nowart|Nowart]], specialists [[Vireem]] and [[Gage]], Lieutenant [[Aaron Kelly]], and civilian [[Charlie Connor]]. In this episode, Maldonaldo is killed by Adama, Skulls is shot and wounded by Kara Thrace, and Nowart is captured and later released by Adama.
*The Adama/Roslin loyalists include [[Saul Tigh]], [[Lee Adama]], [[Kara Thrace]], [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Helo]], [[Athena]], and [[Hoshi]]. [[Gaius Baltar]] has also sided with Roslin out of self-preservation. By the end of the episode, the only known characters on ''Galactica'' capable of retaking the ship are Lee Adama, Kara Thrace, and Galen Tyrol. Roslin and Baltar have fled ''Galactica'', Admiral Adama and Saul Tigh are cornered, and Helo, Athena and Hoshi were captured before they even knew what was happening.
*The mutiny seems to have revitalized Kara Thrace and Laura Roslin. Thrace is the first one to organize any form of resistance against the mutineers. Roslin has openly addressed the Fleet for the first time since the discovery of Earth.
*The mutiny has given Kara Thrace a purpose in life as well as an outlet to channel her inner demons. She throws herself into battle without hesitation or regard for her own safety. She has also become much colder as evidenced by her attempts to gun down an unarmed Nowart.
*Despite forming a partnership to overthrow Adama, Zarek and Gaeta clearly have differing ideas of how to go about dealing with their opponents. The brutal killing of Laird is but one example of how Zarek is willing to go to much more extreme lengths than Gaeta, who seems to want the coup to succeed without excessive bloodshed. Zarek also lets slip that he disapproves of Gaeta arresting the senior staff of ''Galactica'' rather than just executing them. It remains to be seen how far this rift will widen.
*Gaeta appears to want the removal of Adama without recourse to too much violence, as shown by his attempt to stop the gunfire in CIC and his refusal to execute Adama and the senior staff on the spot. Nevertheless Gaeta has clearly mentally and morally committed himself to the mutiny to the point where he eventually orders the shooting down of the Raptor carrying Roslin to the Basestar (although he does not know who is aboard).
*It does not seem essential in the end for Tigh and Adama to stay in the storage bay while the marines break down the door, as the Raptor is clear before the marines make it through. It is possible that Adama would have remained anyway, refusing to abandon his ship.
* Adama's final words to his XO show how he still holds Saul Tigh in high regard as his friend, regardless of his revealed Cylon nature. He also express pleasure in seeing Galen Tyrol in the Storagebay when Adama first arrives.
*Lee Adama's sharp comments to Tigh shows the hard line toward the Cylons still held by the younger Adama, which has been displayed in earlier episodes such as "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" when he proposed a genocidal biological attack on the Cylons. Despite this Lee tempers his feelings with his pragmatic attitude to the Cylon alliance alongside his loyalty to Roslin and his father, noting that it is all they have left to survive. However, despite this, he expresses gratitude and no hostility to Galen Tyrol when he gives Lee and Roslin the news of the Admiral being transported to the brig and offers to get the Admiral off the ship.
*Baltar attempts to blackmail Gaeta into abandoning the mutiny by reminding him of his knowledge of Gaeta's complicity in the deaths of Resistance members on [[New Caprica]]. Ironically in a broad manner, they were victims of similar circumstances. Both were victims of duplicitous Cylon females who using sexual affection were able to get them to pass them sensitive secret information and use it against humanity. In the case of Baltar, he gave [[Caprica Six]] the back door codes to the Colonial defense systems allowing the Cylons to shut it down, resulting in the deaths of billions of people. In the case of Gaeta, he gave the names of Resistance members to an [[Eight]] he was having an affair with and who he believed was aiding the humans. In reality, she was responsible for the deaths of many of those on the list he gave her to help. The two main differences between the two situations are that Baltar didn't know Caprica Six was a Cylon while Gaeta did and Baltar's mistake resulted in billions dying instead of the relative few in Gaeta's case.
*No one referenced Felix Gaeta's being complicit in the [[Karl Agathon]]-led mutiny on the ''[[Demetrius]]'', the ship Admiral Adama gave Kara Thrace to command to find an alternative route to Earth. Everyone seemed surprised that Gaeta would mutiny and lead a rebellion against the Admiral. President Roslin said to Baltar "who would have thought" that it would be Gaeta? This would seem to indicate that certainly Roslin and Baltar, and very likely Adama, Tigh and others who weren't aboard the ''Demetrius'', do not know of the incident. It would also indicate that the crew of the ''Demetrius'' - including those who opposed Agathon and Gaeta, like Kara Thrace and Samuel Anders - thought it was in their self-interest to keep the incident to themselves.
*"Semper Fidelis" is the motto of the United States Marine Corps. It is a latin phrase meaning "always faithful." Kara Thrace's disgusted paraphrase of it after she had witnessed marines breaking faith with Adama suggests that the Colonial Marine Corps may have adopted the same motto.

== Questions ==
*What will happen to Adama and Tigh?
*Where are Kara Thrace, Lee Adama, and Galen Tyrol heading off to?
*How much impact has Roslin's speech had on the Fleet?
*Will Zarek get the rest of the Fleet to fall in line?
*Just how far is Gaeta willing to go to rid the Fleet of the Cylons?
*How will the rebel Cylons react to the uprising?
*Will Roslin enlist the aid of the rebel Cylons to bring down Zarek?
*Where do other crew members such as Hot Dog and Doc Cottle stand?
*Were Gaeta's men actually planning to execute Lee Adama?
*What are Racetrack and Skulls' personal motivations for joining Gaeta?
*How much of ''Galactica'' has Gaeta taken control of?
*Where did Nowart flee to?
*Will any of the mutineers switch sides? What about the loyalists?
*What other loyalists besides Lee Adama and Kara Thrace remain at large on ''Galactica''?
*Will Skulls survive his injuries?
*What was Thrace reading before the alarm was sounded?
*Will Gaeta take advantage of the mutiny to seek personal vengeance against Tigh, Anders, Thrace and Baltar?
*How was Gaeta able to convince so many of Galactica's crew to join with him in the mutiny?
**''It probably wasn't very difficult, given that many in the Fleet were already opposed to a permanent alliance with the Cylons.''

== Official Statements ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*'''''Admiral Adama''' after the death of Jaffee and having been relieved of command:''
: "I want you all to understand this! If you do this, there will be no forgiveness. No amnesty. This boy died honouring his uniform. You, you'll die with nothing."

*'''''President Roslin''' addressing the fleet:''
: "Women and men of the fleet. This is your president. We have come to a crossroads in our long and painful journey. Of all the decisions that I have had to make since assuming the presidency, none was more frightening or more difficult than agreeing to this alliance with the Cylons. But we have come to a crossroads in our long and painful journey. Cylons and humans have been at war for generations; we know nothing else. And we have been locked in a struggle that has seen both sides suffer unspeakable loss. But with our supplies running low and our options limited, our former enemies may represent our last, perhaps our only hope. To those in the fleet and in Galactica who would reject this alliance, I am asking you. No, I am begging you to reconsider and place your trust back in those who have brought you this far, and to reject those traitors who would use your fear of the Cylons to destroy Colonial civilization a..."

== Guest Stars ==
* [[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
* [[Brad Dryborough]] as Lieutenant [[Louis Hoshi]]
* [[Sebastian Spence]] as Lieutenant [[Noel Allison|Noel "Narcho" Allison]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lieutenant [[Brendan Costanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza]]
* [[Leah Cairns]] as Lieutenant [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
* [[Colin Lawrence]] as Lieutenant [[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]]
* [[Jennifer Halley]] as Ensign [[Diana Seelix|Diana "Hardball" Seelix]]
* [[Ty Olsson]] as Lieutenant [[Aaron Kelly]]
* [[Vincent Gale]] as Chief [[Peter Laird]]
* [[Colin Corrigan]] as Sergeant [[Allan Nowart]]
* [[Craig Veroni]] as Sergeant [[Maldonaldo]]
* [[Michael Leisen]] as Private [[Stewart Jaffee]]
* [[Derek Delost]] as Specialist [[Vireem]]
* [[Mike Dopud]] as Specialist [[Gage]]
* [[Ryan Robbins]] as [[Charlie Connor]]
* [[Alexandra Thomas]] as [[Hera Agathon]]
* [[Keegan Connor Tracy]] as [[Jeanne]]
* [[Lara Gilchrist]] as [[Paulla Schaffer]]
* [[Andrew McIlroy]] as [[Jacob Cantrell]]
* [[Marilyn Norry]] as [[Reza Chronides]]
* [[Judith Maxie]] as [[Unnamed civilians in the Fleet (RDM)#Picon Delegate|Picon Delegate]]
* [[Iris Paluly]] as [[Unnamed civilians in the Fleet (RDM)#Tauron Delegate|Tauron Delegate]] (credited as "Speaking Delegate #2)
* [[Veena Sood]] as [[Unnamed civilians in the Fleet (RDM)#Quorum Delegate|Quorum Delegate]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Oath

2009-02-01T17:50:12Z

Xenophon10k: /* Act 4 */

Talk:Crossroads, Part II/Archive1

2007-03-21T17:26:44Z

Xenophon10k: /* the commercial */

== Promo Pics ==
Are [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/gallery/000aaqbh here]. Hard believe that's the last for Season 3. However, they may release a few more for this episode. At least there's the 2-hr movie between seasons. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:03, 27 February 2007 (CST)

That promo pic of Six, Baltar, and Hera appears to be shot in the "Final Five" room. Anyone else notice this? [[User:Paulmooreparks|Paulmooreparks]] 19:57, 28 February 2007 (CST)

: Yes, indeed I did. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:02, 28 February 2007 (CST)

::Baltar's been having visions of Six and Hera in the opera house since season 1, so it's not necessarily connected to the Final Five. Since this episode will reveal 1 or 4 of the Final Five depending on which interview you go by, there's a pretty good chance that it relates to them as well. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:16, 28 February 2007 (CST)

:::Am I completely off-base in thinking that that's Virtual Baltar alongside Virtual Six? Because the other photos of that episode show the "real" Baltar still quite disheveled with a thick beard while that Baltar is clean-shaven, not unlike Caprica's Baltar. Didn't Ron Moore say something about the two alter-egos being key figures in the last episodes of the season? --[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 04:50, 3 March 2007 (CST)

::::Not really "off base", in fact I think that's the most popular theory in general. So unless we're all off base.....which is admitedly possible :P --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 07:37, 3 March 2007 (CST)

:::::If they are able to interact with eachother it would have significant implications regarding their nature. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 17:50, 7 March 2007 (CST)

::::::The virtual Baltar normally wears the unique pinstripe suit from the Miniseries, which I don't see here. I do believe this is a visualization and that is Virtual Six, for the Opera House doesn't exist. If the two alter-egos do somehow directly interact, some Serious Shit will ensure, but damned if I can really glean what. This is as big of a season stumper as season 2's cliffhanger. And, no, Kara Thrace will NOT be one of the Five. But it may be, in my guess, one of these three, although they don't realize it: Dualla, Tigh, or Gaeta. I still hold exception to the fact that what Three saw may be the five priests of the Temple of Five, who just so happen to have incarnations in the current timeline. (Note the monkey that exited my anus and is waving at you). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:44, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

==Predictions==
Well, it's early, and I don't care to step on Slander's toes, but I have forseen an event in Crossroads, Part II. The top 5 American Idol contestants cameo as... '''THE FINAL FIVE!''' --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:06, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
*I'd like to make a motion that all Predictions in Talk pages be deleted as they are assinine and serve no other purpose than to promote the person making the prediction. Predictions should be in Forums and chatrooms or discussion groups, not here.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 12:29, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
**Dude... they're friggin' jokes. No need to be so uptight. You're reminding me of Merv. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:07, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
*** Motion denied. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 12:04, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

OK. The purpose of a talk page is for ''brief'' discussions and questions about the article. Generally, the humorous "predictions" in other talk pages have not detracted from the talk page's purpose or grown in size, and honestly have given me a chuckle, although my feelings on the matter aren't the sole vote about it. Provided that we don't get into numerous predictions from many users to the talk page in some way, I don't see a problem with it at this time. If there's still a problem about it, a silly page could have a bulleted series of such humor if approved by consensus (although I doubt this would work, [[BW:NOT|we're not a forum]]). Sometimes, predictions are fun ''and'' on-topic: See [[Talk:Exodus, Part II]] where I made a good guess. Now, what's considered "funny" is very subjective. I don't think BB's jest is nearly as humorous as, say, the shining white Final Five being revealed as the ''Jackson Five'' or something. Jokes are OK. If it's a bad one, ignore the poster. If a talk page gets too long, ask an admin to moderate if you can't get others to end a pointless or irrelevant topic. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:00, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
:Damn I should've thought of the Jackson Five... --20:10, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

==the commercial==

hey the commercial has anders voice syaing "yeah we're cylons" WTF --[[User:Snorkel378|Snorkel378]] 21:07, 19 March 2007 (CDT)Snorkel378
:I don't know whose voice it is, but the line is definitely "It's true, we're Cylons". -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:12, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
:At first, I thought it was Anders speaking, just because his face appeared at the same moment. {{spoilli|On subsequent viewing, I think it's...drum roll...Chief Tyrol!}} --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 12:26, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

==Predictions-part 2==

I was surfing on the internet, trying to find some spoilers (lol) for the 3rd season finale, and came across this baby: http://www.thetvremote.com/battlestar-galactica-season-finale-spoilers/ (huge spoilers, so don t go there if u don t wanna read em). So, the text reveals who are the 4 of the final 5. As we already know, without the websites help, some of the final five are living and working in the colonial fleet. The 4 that are in question have a past, and we even saw a few times their memories, and we know that they lived in the colonies for quite some time. That being said, the website isn’t really convincing. But then, we know that the final five are special. We don t know what they are, we could suppose that they are more than the other cylon models, much more. We could even think that they are some sort of gods, now that too being said, I can t help but to think that those final 5, being special could have been planted in the colonies before the attacks of the miniseries. There is also a thing about Starbuck and a thing about finding earth on the website. I don t know what are their sources but the text seems very interesting and gives some very interesting ideas. {{unsigned|DedMed}}

:Many of the spoilers fit with what occurred in "Crossroads, Part II," but it brings up many new questions, too. If true, the information completely wrecks or substantially modifies what we thought Cylons were and when they came about. It should be an interesting episode, to say the least. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:39, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

::HOLY FRAKKIN FRAK! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 12:54, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

:::The spoilers from part 1 were correct, adding some credibility. The really shocking part is that one of the alledged final five was around during the Cylon War (yes, you heard it right, the [[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]] is a Cylon, I'm surprised no one made the connection when we've known that she has at least a dozen copies since the miniseries :D). -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 23:27, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

Crossroads, Part I

2007-03-21T17:11:21Z

Xenophon10k: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| title= Crossroads, Part I
| image= 3x19-CrossroadsPartI-TrialJudges.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 19
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Taylor]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production= 319
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-04-18
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[The Son Also Rises]]
| next= [[Crossroads, Part II]]
| itunes= http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=VWbyALbmqZY&offerid=78941&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%253A%252F%252Fphobos.apple.com%252FWebObjects%252FMZStore.woa%252Fwa%252FviewTVSeason%253Fi%253D219291493%2526id%253D200852806%2526s%253D143441%2526partnerId%253D30
}}

== Overview ==
:''Baltar's trial commences, with the prosecution presenting evidence of treason committed on New Caprica amid controversial testimonies from Colonel Tigh and President Roslin.''

== Summary ==
===Teaser===
*[[Laura Roslin]], significantly different in dress and hairstyle, is walking through what appears to be the [[Opera House]]. She searches for and finds little [[Hera Agathon]] walking through the hallways, unable to reach her.
*Also following Hera is her mother [[Sharon Agathon]], who does not appear pleased to see Roslin in pursuit. Both women run down the stairs towards Hera.
*As they turn the corner, a [[Number Six]] in white clothing catches Hera and starts a movement as if to turn. There is a dark figure in the indistinct shadows behind her.
*Roslin wakes up. This has been a dream, though it bears a strong resemblance to Roslin's [[Chamalla|Chamalla extract]] induced visions of the past.
*The [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] is en route to the [[Ionian nebula]], but it is still several days away.
*Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] is trying to tune into [[Talk Wireless]] or music in [[Joe's bar]]. [[Brendan Costanza]], [[Diana Seelix]] and [[Samuel Anders]] are playing [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]]. Anders notes Tigh's attempts to find the music.
*[[Tory Foster]] speaks with [[Cassidy]], the prosecuting attorney in [[Gaius Baltar]]'s trial. Foster's assertion that [[Epiphanies|Roslin witnessed Baltar and a Six on Caprica]] doesn't convince Cassidy, who stresses the need for hard evidence and the fact that Baltar is only being tried for the charges that can be proved.
*Meanwhile, in the brig, Baltar is visited by a member of the press, who wants to give him a picture of her son, who she claims is sick—she also claims, much to Baltar's bemusement, that Baltar is capable of saving her son by Baltar's simply blessing him. He refuses until she forces it onto him before the [[Colonial Marine Corps|marine]]s remove her.
*The [[Virtual beings|virtual Six]] appears to console the emotionally tortured Baltar, noting that 30 to 40 people have written him letters.

===Act 1===
*[[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]] and [[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]] are conducting reconnaissance to see if any Cylons are following the Fleet's jumps. Her [[Raptor]] hides behind an asteroid as they play [[Triad (RDM)|cards]] and wait.
*The trial begins. Cassidy asks the courtroom how loss is measured.
*She notes the number of people who settled on New Caprica, the number who escaped in the [[Second Exodus]] and the number lost: 5,197 left behind, killed or otherwise missing.
*The attorney claims that the trust put in Baltar was gravely misplaced, and that the ultimate price must be paid.
*[[Romo Lampkin]], Baltar's attorney, immediately asks to change the plea to guilty as a ploy to use reverse psychology to claim that the power of [[w:Mob rule|mob rule]] is trying to sway opinion in the court.
*Lampkin claims that President Roslin is seeking vengeance on Baltar for [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|her lost election]], and claims that the [[New Caprica]]ns were victims of a hopeless battle. Baltar's decision to surrender to the Cylons had saved lives, he claims, versus what Lampkin claims Roslin would have done -- stand and fight.
*Back on Racetrack's Raptor, five [[Basestar (RDM)|baseships]] suddenly appear and attack. Racetrack's [[FTL]] drive barely comes online in time to allow them to escape an incoming missile.
*Back on ''[[Galactica]]'', in [[CIC]], Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] orders a scan for any [[Cylon transponder|tracking devices]] that may have been left on Fleet ships during the New Caprica siege. At the same time [[Tory Foster]] hands Roslin a cup and a thermos can. Roslin insists on asking the incarcerated [[Caprica-Six]] for information. When Tigh objects, Roslin snaps back, uncharacteristically.
*[[Lee Adama]] enters CIC near Roslin, who is collecting herself in the Weapons Control station. He notices Roslin's cup, which she left on the table, and smells it, detecting something unexpected.
*Caprica-Six is questioned. She suggests that the [[Daru Mozu|fuel ship]] is being tracked by a unique radiation signature emitted by the ship. The [[Virtual beings|virtual Baltar]] appears and convinces her not to cooperate further. Caprica Six retaliates to Tigh's interrogation by recalling [[Ellen Tigh]], inciting Tigh to strike her, and Six to strike back before [[Marine]]s intervene and shackle the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]].

===Act 2===
*In court, Tigh is questioned, and asked if Baltar appeared to help the [[New Caprica Resistance|resistance]] in any way. Tigh is noticeably drunk. When questioned about Ellen, Tigh acknowledges her involvement but becomes more withdrawn.
*Lampkin cross-examines about the [[NCP]] [[Precipice|initiation bombing]] and how the resistance attempted to target Baltar. Lampkin continues to question about Ellen Tigh's [[Exodus, Part I|collaboration]] by asking Colonel Tigh if his wife was a collaborator, muddying the differences between Ellen Tigh and Baltar. Lampkin points out that Tigh appears drunk. Matters turn to the worst when Tigh begins to hear the music.
*Tigh is asked the nature of Ellen's death, and Tigh resolutely answers, claiming that Baltar's inaction made him kill his wife. He reflects a portion of his wife's [[Exodus, Part II|last words]] to tell how he would do anything to have Baltar killed. Tigh begins to show increasingly signs of anger as the music in his head continues to increase in volume.
*In Joe's Bar, Anders turns a eye to strange noises from the bar's public wireless and shares a look with Foster.
*Under testimony, Roslin notes the execution of 200 people under Cylon tyranny.
*Lampkin attempts to get Lee Adama to give some insight about Roslin's testimony and Roslin herself, instead of being a passive observer who is simply satisfied in embittering his father.
*Lampkin attempts to play to on Lee Adama's sense of justice by putting him between two difficult decisions. One being the betrayal of Roslin and his father, or putting his words about justice into action by sharing the personal information with Lampkin.

===Act 3===
*Admiral Adama drags the drunken Tigh to his quarters. The Fleet is nine jumps away from the nebula, and repairs are being made to the fuel ship to keep it from being tracked.
*Tigh says that he can't "smell her anymore" and apologizes for his actions in court. Adama replies that, as his [[Scattered|oldest friend]], he could never embarrass him.
*In the admiral's quarters, Major Adama suggests the idea of sending the fuel ship on a different course to throw off the Cylons temporarily, and the admiral coldly takes it under advisement.
*The two Adamas verbally spar. Admiral Adama angrily accuses his son of helping Lampkin by telling him about what Tigh did to Ellen.
*In response, Major Adama resigns from military duty, while his father accepts the resignation in anger.
*The mood is tense in court when, instead of Lampkin, Lee Adama asks to address the court.
*Lee Adama (in civilian dress) questions President Roslin, but asks if it was Baltar that [[Epiphanies|saved her from cancer]]. When Admiral Adama objects, Lampkin asks for hostile witness latitude, which is given.
*Roslin tells how the cancer was cured. When asked what medications she was currently taking, she says "I don't remember." Asked specifically about [[chamalla]] use, and if she has had hallucinations recently, Roslin counters in the affirmative but notes how it [[Home, Part II|provided the first clues to Earth]] as well as noting Lee Adama's own involvement.
*Before Lee Adama asks his next question, Roslin whispers to him: "Don't do this." He then asks if she was taking chamalla again.
*Admiral Adama tries to overrule the line of questioning but other tribunal judges overrule him, forcing Roslin to answer. She recalls [[Miniseries, Night 1|her fondness for Lee Adama's early leadership]], how calling him "Captain Apollo" way back then had a nice ring to it, but how sad she was at how his behavior has changed.
*Adama notes that chamalla can be sweetened to mask its bitter taste, recalling the cup of tea that Tory gave Roslin at ''Galactica'''s CIC, which gave him the clue to her use of the drug.
*Roslin confirms that she is taking chamalla again. She then challenges counselor Adama to finished what he had started with his last question. When he asks her why was taking the drug again, she tells the court that she is taking the drug again because her cancer has returned.

===Act 4===
*[[Anastasia Dualla]] packs her bags and leaves her husband in disgust over his questioning of Roslin and his usage of the justice system she believes should be dismantled and rebuilt to make it work again.
*On ''[[Colonial One]]'', reporters pepper President Roslin about her cancer, how it will be treated, and if she planned on using Hera Agathon's blood again. The line of questioning infuriates Foster, but Roslin asks her to leave the press conference. When [[Karen Fallbrook]] asks how long the President has to live, an unflinching Roslin repeats the same question at the reporter, leaving Fallbrook speechless.
*After the press conference, Roslin angrily criticizes her aide, complaining that Foster is off her game. Foster claims that she hasn't been sleeping well.
*In his quarters, the drunken Tigh still hears the mysterious music and tries to track its source.
*[[Helo]] arrives in CIC as interim [[Executive officer]] and finds Lt. [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]], who briefs him. The [[tylium]] fuel ship decoy plan is nearing completion, but there are no further reports of Cylon forces. Three jumps from the nebula.
*Helo remembers a certain smell in the air when trouble was brewing, recalling the weather on Caprica. He believes "something over the horizon" is coming, something that doesn't bode well for the Fleet. "A storm is coming," he says.
*The music that Tigh, Anders, and Foster are hearing appears to be coming from the ship itself.

===Bonus Scene===

* Lee Adama asks Lampkin, "You know he's guilty, right?". Lampkin appeals to Adama's sense of justice, stating that everyone is guilty of something and there is a difference between guilt and criminality.

== Questions ==

* Did Tigh continue drinking all the time, or did he stop for a while after he seemingly pulled himself together again?

* Why does Anders pursue being a pilot?

* Is there a budding romance developing between Anders and Seelix?

* Why are Tigh, Anders, and Foster apparently the only ones who can hear the ever-increasing music?

* Does Foster actually hear the music?

* What is the mysterious music and where is it coming from?

* Is the music's loudness and clarity increasing because the fleet is approaching the Ionian Nebula?

* Is Roslin back on using chamalla extract because of prescription from Cottle or is she attempting to receive visions of the future again?

* Did Athena or Caprica-Six receive the same vision that Roslin found herself in during the teaser of the episode?

* Who is the shadowy figure behind the Six in Roslin's vision?

* Would Athena and Helo be willing to donate some of Hera's blood to save Roslin from her cancer?

* Barring any effective treatment, how long does Roslin have to live?

* Would Hera's blood have any effect on the cancer now since the cancer apparently has resisted Hera's innate immunology?

* With Helo temporarily assigned as XO, who has replaced him as CAG? Or is he temporarily holding down both posts?

* Why did Roslin look so different in her dream?

* Will Baltar be cross-examined?

* Where is Zarek in the midst of the trial proceedings?

* How is Caprica's virtual Baltar aware of the details of Saul and Ellen Tigh's relationship and Ellen's death?

* Why has Adama waited so long to order a sweep of tracking devices throughout the Fleet?

* What will Seelix and Anders' callsigns be?

== Analysis ==

* [[Samuel Anders]] wears a uniform with rank insignia and hangs around with Seelix and Costanza. Together with being addressed as "you [[nugget]]s", this indicates that he joined the pilot training program.
* The Cylons have apparently been tracking the fleet since the destruction of the Temple of Five. Their strategy was to delay jumping into any system that the Fleet has been until after six plus hours to ensure that the Fleet would not realize that they were being tracked.
* Adama's military experience comes into play again when he orders that the decoy Raptor stay for a total of 12 hours. This is reminiscent of his previous strategies such as the decision to attack the Cylon tylium factory in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]." When he changes the regular pattern and stays longer than the Cylons had expected, he finally caught them in the act.
* Lee Adama immediately displays signs of fear once Roslin challenges him to "finished what you(he) started" after asking her if she is taking chamalla again. This indicates that either he suspected that Roslin's cancer has returned or he was beginning to feel that his actions are treacherous.
* Helo's comment to Gaeta about a "'storm is coming'" highlights Adama's comment to him at the end of "[[The Woman King]]", specifically to how Helo has been many times the voice in the wilderness. His ability to sense or remember certain details hails back to the final scene in "[[Rapture]]" when he remembers that Thrace had painted the picture of the mandala. It's also similar to his wife predicting that "Something dark is coming" in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]".
* Lampkin's opening statement is another prime example of his rhetorical skill. He uses reverse psychology to goad the mob to respond and eventually lead one man in the audience to state his desire to see Baltar die. This display of emotion played in Lampkin's favor as it would make the judges wary of giving into the mob mentality. Secondly, he cleverly paints Roslin as a fanatic by proposing that had Roslin been president when the Cylons invaded New Caprica, the entire human race would have been exterminated. However, as [[Precipice|Zarek has stated to Roslin]], if she had been President, the settlement and eventual invasion of New Caprica would have never taken place.
* It appears the closer the Fleet is to the nebula, Tigh, Anders, and Foster hear the music increasingly, even to the point of exhaustion.
* There is a growing movement in the Fleet that believes Baltar has some sort of healing or divine abilities. His internal-Six doesn't allow him to brush off these devoted followers aside, indicating that his belief about himself that he is the "Chosen One" is coming true.
* Lee Adama's actions towards his father and Roslin have led to another impasse between himself and Dualla. Lee Adama has come to a point where he has been alienated from his father, from Roslin, and his wife, in an attempt to gain some sort of respect from Lampkin and to act in accordance with his noble conceptions of justice by following in his grandfather's footsteps.
* Lee Adama's words to the pilots in "[[A Day in the Life]]" come back to haunt Racetrack when the Cylons jump on top of her Raptor right after the end of a card game. The ship's systems apparently had been powered down as Racetrack can't even maneuver or evade the missile to give the FTL drive a few more moments to spin up.
* Baltar is only being tried for crimes that the prosecution believes can be proven. He is therefore not being tried for the genocide of humanity that occurred during the [[Miniseries]]. Although the show's audience knows his involvement, none of the primary characters in the series who give testimony have to date any hard evidence of his complicity, beyond Laura Roslin's hallucination whilst dying of cancer in "[[Epiphanies]]". This is acknowledged before, when she tries to challenge Baltar about the settlement of New Caprica. She tells him that she saw him together with Six, but knows that she has no concrete evidence ([[Lay Down Your Burdens]]).
* [[Cassidy]]'s numbers for the surviving human population seem contradictory. However, it becomes apparent that the number of survivors she gives only refers to the ''civilian'' population of the Fleet, excluding the military personnel. The second confusion stems from her saying "the sum total of survivors [...] who settled on New Caprica". This clearly means only the people down on the planet. However her number of 44,035 also includes the ''total'' left in orbit, both military and civilian. This is the error in her facts and makes her statement that 5,197 people were lost entirely inaccurate, but aside from that the numbers fit with what has been established before (see: [[Survivor Count]]):
**41,435 (Collaborators) - 38,838 = 2,597 (the military personnel in the Fleet)
**44,035 - 39,192 (the inhabitants of [[New Caprica City]]) = 4,835 (the total population in orbit)
**4,835 - 2,597 = 2,238 (Lee Adama refers to roughly 2,000 civilians who escaped New Caprica in "[[Precipice]]")
**49,550 (count in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]") - 39,192 - 4,835 (total population in orbit) = 5,523 (the death toll prior to the occupation, mostly incurred with the destruction of ''Cloud Nine'')
**49,550 - 5,523 - 41,435 = 2,592 (the causalities of the Cylon occupation and the escape from New Caprica)

== Notes ==

*The episode has one of the most sparse musical score yet. The only major pieces are during Roslin's dream at the beginning and the music Tigh keeps hearing. According to a [http://bearmccreary.com/html/blog/blogmain.htm blog entry] by composer [[Bear McCreary]], director [[Michael Rymer]] and the editors decided not to use any music during the court room part, in order to let the scenes speak for themselves.
*It's the first episode without an intro sequence, thus increasing the effective running time a little bit. Because of that, no updated [[Survivor Count]] is available.
*The bitterness of chamalla and that it can be sweetened to make it taste better, is first mentioned by the oracle [[Dodona Selloi]] in "[[Exodus, Part I]]".
*One of the shots of others listening to the trial on the [[wireless]] shows the [[refinery ship]] from "[[Dirty Hands]]".
*A storm is often used as a metaphor for a battle, conflict, or massive upheaval in science fiction. Helo's final line in this episode is almost an exact duplicate of the ending of the movie ''[[w:The Terminator|The Terminator]]'', and a huge storm (a sandstorm) takes place during the climax of the novel ''[[w:Dune (novel)|Dune]]''.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
Notes from the podcast:

* The opening teaser is indeed set in the Kobol Opera House that has been seen numerous times. This particular scene in the teaser was a late addition as the director and producers wanted to create a foreboding atmosphere to the episode. This was influenced by the fact that the studio executives were not favorable to the idea of ending the season with Baltar's trial.

* RDM goes more into the original trial storyline that involved the Saggitarons and Baltar. In summary, during their time on New Caprica, the food supply had been contaminated and a famine had fallen on most of the colonists, except the Saggitarons, who had been very careful with their harvests and supplies. This alienation between the Saggitarons and the rest of the colonies came to a collision when Baltar was attempting to have the Saggitaron leadership share their food with the other colonists. Unfortunately, Baltar is forced to kill one of the leaders, and thus began the riots and slaughter directed towards the Saggitarons. This killing was to be eventually revealed that it was a necessity instead of an act of genocide.

* Another component of the original storyline was to have Lee Adama be Baltar's only attorney and Lee's morals come into play when he obtains a video recording of Baltar actually shooting the Saggitaron leader. The cliff hanger of the episode was suppose to leave the audience wondering what will Lee do now that he believes Baltar is guilty.

* Over time, RDM and the director agreed that this storyline involved too many plot elements that the audience had never witnessed about Baltar. Once the decision was made, RDM completely revised the whole trial and rewrote the episodes.

* RDM hints that Athena and Roslin did indeed see each other during the dream sequence. A deleted scene had Roslin in the the restroom attempting to cool her head down while Athena comes out from one of the stalls. They looked at each other briefly in a silent acknowledgment that they did see each other in the dream.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Tyrol]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Jen Halley]] as [[Diana Seelix]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
*[[Colin Lawrence]] as [[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]]
*[[Mark Sheppard]] as [[Romo Lampkin]]
*[[Ryan Robbins]] as [[Charlie Connor]]
*[[Keegan Connor Tracy]] as Young Woman
*[[Chelah Horsdal]] as [[Cassidy]]
*[[Susan Hogan]] as [[Franks]]
*[[William Samples]] as Judge Number Two
*Lily Duong-Walton as [[Hera Agathon]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

2006-12-17T13:39:10Z

Xenophon10k: /* Location of the Eye? */

I wonder if it has to do with that big red spot... *rollseyes* --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:48, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I'm more reminded of that Writer's Podcast thing, you know when they're saying "How many more times are we going to find an artifact like the Arrow of Apollo and have to search for them all? That feels like going back to the well too many times, I mean what are we going to say, "Athena has 10 sacred toenail clipping scattered across space, you have to find them all...?" :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:49, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:i'm thinking along the lines of some jewelry. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:57, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

::It sounds like a good plotline actually. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:05, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Merv - you just made me spill forth mein coca cola whilst reading the section about the sacred toenail clippings - thats too much for 3am on a sunday morning! Still, plot looks good, just wish Season 3 would hurry up and AIR dammit! :) --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 21:08, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
::::No, really, they make a joke about "Athena's toenail clippings" in that writer's podcast thing. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:12, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I have a few possible meanings for 'eye of Jupiter' --[[User:starryniteynite|starryniteynite]]

1) Relatively obscure name for NGC 3242, a planetary nebula (A ring of illuminated gas expanding out from a sun-like star that's exhausted its fuel, and has lost its outer layers) a few thousand light years from Earth. Most astronomers call this 'the Ghost of Jupiter' instead, though some Hubble images have used this name. Its not a very unique PN (tho it has some gas streamers we can't quite explain), but it could be used as a navigational marker like M8 (the lagoon nebula). It is a very pretty nebula :)

2) "Eye of Jupiter" was the Greek/Roman name for the sun, which lead to today's 'all seeing eye' symbol of the free masons and on the pyramid in US currency

3)Adama=Zeus=Jupiter...yes, they tend to use Greek vs. Roman names, but the titles are not always consistent with this convention, and we have also seen evidence for non Greek mythological names (Isis, for example). The rest of it could be wordplay too...'eye' might refer to someone acting as Adama's eyes, rather than his eyes literally (just as 'The captain's hand refereed to Lee acting as Gardner's XO, or his hand, rather than some captain's literal hand)

4)A reference to Jupiter's big red spot, a huge hurricane-like storm on the planet's surface. Just like the "bastille Day" title, this could reference something in the episode, but not directly...they might travel through a similar storm. This has actually been done before in the miniseries, when Galactica travels into the storm at Ragnar

5) The tried and true, ancient object meaning...just like the arrow of Apollo directly references a character, but has no link to the character himself, this could just be a pretty piece of bling..

Personally, I would love #1, but only because it'd make me 2/2 for BSG objects in my thesis and I'm a total, unabashed geek. I think its probably #2, however, and they find some sort of navigational means of finding Earth (like a picture of Earth w/ distances& directions to three pulsars or very unique objects

== Duelling Sharons ==

So did anyone else get a sense of animosity/jealousy between the two Sharons? While it seems that Boomer has accepted her place amongst the Cylons and no longer considers herself a part of the humans, it also seems that she's a bit jealous of Athena's "taking her place", if you could call it that. Likewise, it also seemed that aside from her duties as a Colonial officer, Athena's refusal to let Boomer in with Adama was also somewhat out of personal distrust, ironically the same distrust of the Cylons that her fellow Colonial colleagues have.

Also, while Boomer told Athena about Hera's condition out of possible concern of the child (possible strain of humanity left in her? Cylon imperative? Or something else?), seems to me that Boomer enjoyed bursting her "sister"'s bubble on that. Talk about sibling rivalry there.

It'll be interesting to see if there will be any further Sharon vs. Sharon confrontations in the series.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 23:55, 15 December 2006 (CST)

:It was a very, very interesting dynamic. In any other show, we would have had a knock-down dragout "catfight." You hit the nail on the head. This episode was prime stuff. And, we on the wiki should be commended: our ''Galactica'' nuke count is right on the money! (Either that, or the show is using ''us'' as a source! :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:20, 16 December 2006 (CST)

::Does that mean we can finally change the "Class-D Nuclear Warhead" to something completely different, since their nukes ''aren't'' Class-D? :P --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:42, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Image==
Let's find an image that actually occurs in this episode. Maybe the wide shot of Tyrol in the temple? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Heh which one? to me it seems the Chief was a bit wide in ALL shots ; how could he gain weight while the fleet was starving? the chief definitely deserves the Lee Adama Fat-Ass trophy --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 03:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:Maybe it was Chief, and not Dr. Cottle, that got all of Kat's energy bars from the last ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:25, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Did Starbuck survive?==
Horray for the carelessness of adverts! Within ten minutes we knew the answer to that one. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Aside from that, it's going to continue the cycle of Soap Opera unease there, if Dee's the one sent to go get Starbuck back. Can't wait to see the uncomfortable stares on that one, especially if (as I suspect) Dee set up Starbuck to be the "eye in the sky" '''hoping''' the Cylons would shoot her down.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Who else was supposed to fly the mission? Looks like Lee and Kara are the only two qualified pilots on the ground and Lee is needed in overall command. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:34, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Too good to be true==
When we Baltar's voice over ''Galactica'''s speaker, the closed caption actually identifies him as "Cylon over speaker". I know that's not really meant to be taken as anything, but with all the speculation, it seems like a shining goof, or maybe even someone taking a good piss out of the [[Baltar as Cylon speculation|whole thing]]. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Nuking the Planet==

Does anyone else think that the nuclear missiles have the ability to be detonated remotely, before they reach their target? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:44, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Not to mention abort code transmissions, etc. Makes you wonder if the missiles were set for "one shot, one kill" mode, where they could not be recalled.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== WTF moment ==

I was on the [[Karl Agathon]] page, updating it for this ep's news, when I came across [[:Image:Valley_of_Darkness-Starbuck_Helo.jpg|this old picture]]. Considering how Kara's painting looks and that she's religious (though not indoctrinated in any sort of clerical form, unlike Chief Tyrol's parentage), does anyone think that (in hindsight), this may have been a hint to the Eye itself?--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:37, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: It actually makes a lot of sense... Taking Zeus to mean Admiral Adama, and that Kara Thrace is the go-to pilot for reconnaissance missions, AND the paintings on the walls, we have a plausible theory in the works! —The preceding '''unsigned''' comment was added by {{User|Alcibiades}}.
: Are you kidding me?! They set this episode up a year ago! --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 19:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: I find it pretty hard to believe too, but that painting ''really really really'' looks like the art in the temple. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 20:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== 18 Casualties & Relevance to "The Passage" ==

If 18 people were lost from '''The Passage''' episode, that means that 17 (at most) were aboard those two lost civilian ships, right? I'm only bringing this up to clarify what transpired — from that, and what we saw, the Raptors would pair up with a civilian ship, and that ship's passenger complement would be transferred onto ''Galactica'' (more heavily shielded, combat FTL drive) for the ferry run through the cluster. The civilian ship would then be crewed by an absolute bare minimum number of crewers. Then, when the group reached the other side of the cluster, the passengers would be transported back to their ships (if they survived the passage), the ships would remain at "Algae-planet", and ''Galactica'' would turn around and go back to the original side to repeat the cycle over again for a new group of civilian ships?

Am I reading/viewing this right? -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:53, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:The ships were manned by skeleton crews. That was even mentioned in "The Passage" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:01, 16 December 2006 (CST)

: Don't forget that 14 days have transpired. there could have been more births in the fleet. I just came up with the difference from the two episodes--[[User:Quig|Quig]] 16:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== Humanoid Cylons recognize each other on sight ==

While back on New Craprica, Number 3 knew right away that it was Sharon Agathon. Of course, who else would be trying to remove the ship's launch keys?

This episode, we see that Athena knew on sight that this Number Eight was Boomer. Interesting.

Can Cylons tell on sight which of the copies they are? It's already established that the bulletheads can't.

Note in last weeks episode, Baltar was able to pick The D'anna number three out of the hallway on sight, even though there is an identically dressed number three in the same hallway. [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 16:50, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Those two instances do prove that they do recognize one another, which was hinted at in the "[[Cylon Agent]]" page. I guess now it's more than a hint. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:54, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Names of marines==
Has anyone heard (or seen in close captions) the names of the marines that were with Starbuck and Dualla? I know one of them is [[Fischer]], but the other three? I heard something like: Criggs, Verek, Ditko. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== Location of the Eye? ==

At the end of the episode, Tyrol says something about "the sky will open, and the eye will be revealed." Did that make anyone else think of the star going nova? -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 22:15, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Good idea, but is it possible that such a "blowup" could be predicted in the sacred scrolls thousands of years ago? -- [[User:SuperMMX|SuperMMX]] 01:15, 17 December 2006 (CST)
::Why not? A race of humans capable of traveling from Kobol to Earth probably knows at least as much about stellar evolution as the Colonials [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:39, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== Boomer in the brig? ==

Did Boomer get thrown in the galactica brig once Athena pointed her out? Was she allowed to return to the Basestars? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:49, 17 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:The Passage/Archive 1

2006-12-09T13:46:05Z

Xenophon10k: /* I cried */

== I cried ==
When I watched the episode tonight, I cried at the end. It was a really sad ending. If an episode makes me cry, that means ''it'' was '''really''' good. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:31, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:I was just left in shock. What a way to die...and to do it knowingly while saving a civilian ship... [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:46, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-22T16:24:49Z

Xenophon10k: /* Possible Discontinuity */

== Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) ==
I was reading the quote from Eick, "...Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies." and for some reason I felt that thie reminded me of Gorge Washington long before we was president or even commander-in-chief when, before the 7-Years-War, Washington was involved in a skirmish with the French over Fort Necessity, aka Pittsburgh (yes, we fought a battle for that city) that led to Washington signing a treaty stating, unbeknownst to him because he couldn't speak French and his interpreter sucked, that he committed attrocities against France in the name of the British Empire. This, according to many historians, led to the 7 Years War, known in America as the French and Indian War, that would decimate Northern Germany. I'm sure Washington at some level had to be aware of this error on his part and led him to remorse I imagine. Anyways, the story is different but I was wondering how many parallels there will be, if there will be, in this episode to Washington's conundrum. I wanted to ask a question on the article page but couldn't concise it enough for wiki standards. I may ask on the scifi bboard but input on this would be appreciated before I do. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 19:42, 3 August 2006 (PST)
:That's an interesting analogy, showing a fine attention to historical detail. I think the parallel has minor flaws, though, since Washington's conduct in that matter isn't generally considered morally wrong so much as foolish. [[Wikipedia:Gavrilo Princip|Gavrilo Princip]] might be worth considering as a parallel; he was the immediate but not ultimate cause of a devastating war, and he precipitated the conflict by attacking his fellow countryman, thinking it justified in contrast to the general consensus. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:28, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

:: It's unlikely that Adama's actions are quite the transgression that he believes it to be; after all, the [[cylon agent|Cylons had been violating the armistice line]] for about a half a year prior to Adama's, anyway.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 02:09, 18 November 2006 (CST)

::: I was wondering about the timeline as well. I think Adama says somthing like, the mission was a year before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack]], but the cylons had been planning the attack for two years. However, I think there is an error in the timeline. Adama also says he served with Boomer for two years, and I think he implied that it was on Galactica. Gaeta also says that he served with Adama for three years. It is possible that Gaeta was on the Valkyrie for a year, but I think the mission happened about two years before the attack, not just one. I will rewatch the episode, but do you have any ideas? [[User:Jrmurph|Jrmurph]] 12:21, 18 November 2006 (EST)
:::: I think there is an inconsistency in the story. It is not unexplainable, ie Gaeta and Boomer served with Adama on the Valkyrie, but it did seem like nobody other than Adama or Tigh recognized Bulldog so the timeline is a little esquew. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:01, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Another Battlestar? ==
There is a spoiler image showing Adm Adama and Col Tigh in the CIC of the Battlestar Valkerie. I zoomed in on Adama and saw he had his Admiral's pins on. Might this be a sign that they soon will find yet another Battlestar? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:24, 15 November 2006 (CST)
: It's a flashback scene. It may be more of a costuming error. Note that Tigh still has his eye in that promo shot. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 01:39, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:: Right. Two eyed Tigh. Darn. I was hoping they'd find another Battlestar cause I do miss the Pegasus. It was bigger, much cooler and the doors made this cool "beep" when they opened. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:50, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::You can visit [[Valkyrie]] as well. It's a spoiler until Friday but you can adjust it with some new data later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::It's true, I saw the Admiral pips as well, the flashback should have been Commander pips; as the Stealth ship incident occurred three years ago. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 22:56, 17 November 2006 (CST)
: The Valkerie looked to be a Mercury class Battlestar. This would make sense because the galactica class was an older ship and has been all but replaced with the newer bigger and more efficent Mercury class.--[[User:Mike|Mike]] 09:30, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It's definately not a Mercury, the only part really similar is the engine block. If anything, it looked most like a reimagining of the original series battlestar, down to the rectangular opening in the flightpod and the angular head. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:47, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::Inside it looks like a Mercury yes. That's a sign of its age. But outside, it's far smaller than a full-sized battlestar. Look at the gun battery on the top. There's only one and almost covers the width of the ship there. See the Valkyrie page for more details (where this discussion should take place), but I think it's basically a smaller battlestar meant for support duties. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:52, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:: Not disagreeing with your main point, but its quite possible that there were far more Battlestar classes than just the "Cylon War Type" and the Mecurcy class, given that the colonies built up a fleet of arround 120 Battlestars over about 50 years, particularly as the Viper apparently went through 5 different itterations over this time, although we are likely never going to see the intervening versions of either type --[[User:Useless|Useless]] 09:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Barry Kennedy as Admiral Corman ==

Hey all, I was just checking on Barry Kennedy's link, and it links to an IMDB page other than his profile page detailing his filmography, and etc. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 23:52, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:That's because some people keep forgeting the "nm" when entering imdb numbers and in that case the link default to title instead of actor --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:53, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The Stealth-Star==
hey i just noticed this but the name of the ship was the stealth star so someone(not me)should create it a page. Best Snorkel378
:Already done [[Stealth Star]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:41, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The scene with Baltar, Six and Three in bed==
it says on there that 3 is having a sexual realationship with baltar and six?
Cylons arent lesbos i think they were having a 3some {{unsigned|Snorkel378}}
:You are assuming that the Six we see is Caprica-Six and not Baltar's internal Six. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 20:49, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It would be an odd choice cinematically to have Three wake up from a dream and show us something from inside Baltar's head. {{unsigned|Wldkt1}}
:::Please remembe rto sign your posts on talk pages guys <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:05, 19 November 2006 (CST)
The fact that Baltar and Six are in a 'clutch' position makes it unlikely that it's his internal Six. Three would have noticed Baltar trying to hug thin air in his sleep. Baltar is also in the center of the bed, rather than on one side. In addition, Caprica seems to be aware of (and approves) Three's new interest in Baltar. Regarding the possibility of a relationship between Three and Six: that is only speculation, but just because we haven't seen a lesbian relationship between cylons doesn't mean one isn't possible.[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 22:18, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:It could be that Caprica-Six sees this as a way to weaken Baltar--after all, the formula for getting Baltar to give up secrets seems pretty clear: get in his bed, get in his head, so to speak. Remember that during the torture in previous episodes, he said to Three, "I love you with all of my heart." That's what started the relationship, so I think Three is interested in Baltar for whatever reason, not necessarily Six. Plus, on a more humorous note...I have to wonder if the Cylons have any sexual relations amongst themselves at all. This could be one deprived Cylon... [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:24, 20 November 2006 (CST)
Speculation on Cylon sexual orientation aside, I think we all can agree that Baltar is one lucky sonofabitch. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:28, 21 November 2006 (CST)
:weell, if put aside the whole electro-shock thing and the drilling in the ear thing. Face it, Baltar had to work hard for that threesome.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 09:47, 21 November 2006 (CST)
::Well, yes, he did work hard for it, but doesn't everyone work hard for a threesome? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 17:53, 21 November 2006 (CST)
A threesome with Six and Three would be cool, but personally, I think a threesome with two Eights would be awesome, and far better. But that's because the Eights are my favorites [[User:NickScryer|NickScryer]] 22:02, 21 November 2006 (CST)

==The Black Ops Mission==
Does anyone think that the entire mission was poorly concieved? First, the Colonials jump a Battlestar to very close range of the armistice line, which one would expect to attract attention in and of itself. Second, we see the ''Valkyrie'' track the S-Star after launch and over the line. This either means the Valkyrie tracked it directly on DRADIS, which indicates it's not much of a stealth ship and that the Cylons should be able to detect it as well, or the S-Star has some sort of transponder reporting its position, which is also something the Cylons should detect. Finally, as referenced in the main article, the S-Star maintains radio contact with the ''Valkyrie'' throughout the whole mission, again something the Cylons should be able to detect. Would the writers have really overlooked all this, or are we meant to conclude that the Admriality meant for the mission to have been discovered by the Cylons? --[[User:Cleophus|Cleophus]] 22:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:-The mission is quite similar to the United States' U2 overflights during the late 1950's and 60's. Certain similarities between the depicted incident and the [[:wikipedia:U-2 Crisis of 1960|incident involving Francis Gary Powers]] can be read. It also conjures up several dozen observation flights by aircraft such as specially outfitted C-130's flying perilously close to a boundary line — even going so far as to slip a wingtip across it to "call a bluff". Also, there's the incident involving the Chinese Gai-8 fighter and the US P-3 Orion.
:In the case of our Colonials here, the stealth craft is more than likely equipped with an "odd frequency" (either very low or very high), encrypted transponder that transmits on a specific wavelength, only for IFF purposes. If I recall correctly, F-117 Nighthawks can still use their radios when on ops (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I suspect that this mission was proposed in order to get a glimpse into ''any'' Cylon activity. The stealth craft would be dangled out as a tiny bit of bait – just enough to get a response. Its stealth characteristics would increase its ability to dash back across the Armistice Line untracked and unaffected, and then ''Valkyrie'' would be able to observe and record the arriving Cylons. If questions were raised ("What are you doing here?" ... "Good question, what are ''you'' doing here?" ... "We detected you over the Armistice Line." ... "Who, us? Noooo... We've been on our side this whole time, just trolling about, watching over our miners over there on that moon there. So why are you here again? You don't mind if we take some photos of you while you're here, do you?"), the Colonials would feign ignorance and innocence, but they'd at least have a response... something that the Cylons haven't even projected in thirty-plus years. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:--Is it possible that the Stealth Star was shot down by a Colonial Force in hopes that it would percipitate a conflict? Similar to the Gulf of Tonkin? This way the Colonials can say one of their ships got lost and was destroyed by the Cylons in cold blood (Or something along those lines). Also, it makes no sense a ship would jump in, shoot the S-Star, and jump out. Why wouldnt it commit to killin the S-Star? --[[User:Skrip00|Skrip00]] 16:31, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:: Perhaps. We don't know either way. To be honest, after some seriously critical thought about it on my part, there's really not much of it that makes sense, since it was poorly explained in the episode. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:55, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==Folks in White Robes==
Aren't there five white-robed figures in Number Three's vision? It's pretty speculative, but maybe these are meant to represent the five missing Cylon models (maybe they've undergone some kind of transcendence, and are "with God now" or something). Maybe the article should note this (after all, the white-robes show up for the first time just a couple episodes after we first learn that there's definitely something different or mysterious about the five missing models), though I don't know the proper section for it. {{unsigned|Steve}}

:- I noticed that too, but was going to "acquire" the episode and re-watch that part, or watch it again on Monday to see... I _think_ there are five humanoid figures in white robes, kneeling or seated in that semi-circle when Three walks amongst them. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:Three's in the opera house on Kobol where Baltar's internal Six shows him Hera's cradle; I believe those are the same white drapes that can be seen on the opera house stage in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 11:38, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::Well I agree she's in the opera house from KLG, but I don't think I'm referring to the drapes. In the initial shot of the opera house, there seem to be five glowing figures standing between the six white drapes. Some of the quick shots of the opera house that follow show these figures, and some do not (as though they are alternately hiding and revealing themselves). At the end of her experience, Three approaches and reaches out to one of these figures just before she is resurrected. --[[User:Steve|Steve]] 02:50, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:::Sorry, you're right. I watched the episode again and noticed them. (Don't know why I missed them the first time, I was watching on a huge HDTV then!) I have a feeling that in the next few episodes, Three is going to keep having "accidental" deaths, and we'll see these figure again. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 20:26, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== Reference to Raising Arizona? ==

I'm new here, so I didn't want to jump right into the thick of things by adding this to the main page before running it by other people...when Adama and Novacek are sitting down for the first time, Adama asks him something like "How did you escape, Bulldog?". Novacek rambles for a little bit (again, I don't remember exact words) but wraps up with "I felt the facility no longer had anything to offer me...". If I'm not mistaken, this is a reference to Raising Arizona--John Goodman's character says just about the exact same thing after he breaks out of prison. I can't seem to find the line on IMDB or Wikiquote, though... {{unsigned|MikeDanger}}
:Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:08, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:As far as I remember "Raising Arizona", the dialogue goes like this: 
:''- You busted outta jail?'' 
:''- No, ma'am. We released ourselves on our own recognizance.'' 
:''- What Evelle is tryin' to say is we felt the institution no longer had anything to offer us.'' -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:28, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== Insight into Cylon plan ==
If the Cylons know where the Colonials are, or at least know well enough to send Bulldog at them, it's common sense to ask, why don't they just attack? Well, maybe their goal isn't to destroy Galactica et al outright but something more complex. One thing that does seem consistent with their plan is their desire to kill Adama, perhaps because they want to send the fleet into disarray without him at the top. Examples: Leoben telling Roslin that Adama's a Cylon in Flesh and Blood, Boomer shooting Adama repeatedly in Kobol's Last Gleaming Pt. II. There may be more examples that I can't think of right now.

People have been crying out "plot hole!" with reckless abandon in light of Bulldog's ability to pinpoint Galactica's position, but if the Cylon plan really is as simple as ''kill all humans,'' as these detractors might claim, then much of the show falls apart. The reality is, we don't really know the Cylon plan, and at this point, there's really no reason to jump to the conclusion that the writers are just too lazy to think of one. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 18:22, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:The Cylons might know full well where the Colonials are but if they jumped in a couple of Basestars then the fleet would zip out of there pretty sharpish and might go somewhere where the Cylons dont know and they will have to find them all over again. IMO, their plan is a long game. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 19:17, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:IMHO, "Hero" is the weakest episode of the series yet. There's just too many logic errors for me to dismiss as part of the "suspension of disbelief" process. For instance, how does Bulldog have the time to learn how to pilot a Cylon raider, when Starbuck took hours to figure out how to operate the thing? Also, how would Bulldog be able to operate the FTL drive -- Kobol's Last Gleaming pretty much made it clear that the FTL drive needed an actual computer, given that the brain had to be ripped out in order for it to be piloted manually. But that's another not so fine mess.
: As for the Cylon plans, well, they're clearly compliated and seem to be changing since the attack. Whether or not this is by design has yet to be detrmined, though I sincerely doubt that the writer's have this thing all planned out a la ''Babylon 5''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:30, 19 November 2006 (CST)

::Yeah, I know what you're saying. I also doubt it's all planned out B5-style (hasn't Ron basically said something to that effect anyway, like how much they enjoy making it up as they go along?), but that doesn't mean it necessarily can't all add up in the end, and we should assume that they ''do'' know what they are doing until they are proven wrong.

::Also, a lot of people have been talking about how unrealistic it is for Bulldog to have learned how to operate the raider in such a short time. I'm not trying to start an arguement about this, but I don't actually remember them saying that he had only a short time to learn how to use the raider. Are you guys just assuming that he had to learn it all quickly based on the rushed nature of his escape? Is there a reason he couldn't have actually had a few hours to do it? I mean, if they let him escape, then he could have been in the basestar hangar for hours trying to work the controls while they watched (and snickered) from behind the glass. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 23:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:I agree that a lot of people have seemed predisposed to cry foul lately--I can understand how the scientific goofs in "A Measure of Salvation" could've set people on edge--but I do think it's possible that if the Cylons are operating under a religious motivation, that their plan does go beyond a simple "kill all humans" approach. They may see the need to exact specific steps of revenge/torture against humanity, perhaps a particular punishment for each perceived offense. That's just one possibility, but it could well be they have the death of a thousand cuts in mind for the remnants of humanity. I think Drumstick's probably on to something here. Or you know, if they wanted Bulldog to escape, they could have trained a Raider (which wasn't injured like Starbuck's) to understand and obey his commands or even set it up with an interface that a human could use. Until we see proof or disproof of all the different theories, I think it's too early to try to claim BsG has jumped the shark or anything similar. I also have to wonder if anybody here has writing experience with writing a full-length work. I am working on my first novel, and keeping total, perfect consistency is not easy and while I tend to get the big things right, I am still finding a lot of subtle things that need tweaking, and this despite my best efforts. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:17, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Possible Discontinuity ==
According to the episode, Adama and friends served on the Valkyrie a year before the attacks. This implies that Adama was only commander of the Galactica for a year before the miniseries. Yet on the Kara Thrace article, it states that Thrace "resigned from flight school as a instructor and transferred as an operational pilot aboard battlestar Galactica under the command of William Adama, where she served for some '''two years prior to the Cylon attack''' on the Twelve Colonies." They can't both be right.

Also, from the Tyrol article: "He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including Columbia, Atlantia, and Pegasus (Resistance). He has served under William Adama on Galactica for five years (Litmus)." If he served under Adama for 5 years, why didn't he mention the Valkyrie when he was being intimidated by Tigh in Resistance? This could be simply because Tigh would have known that.--[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 22:16, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:No, your first impulse is correct - it's quite certainly an error.
:'''Gaeta:''' And... may I take this opportunity to say that it's been both a pleasure and an honour to serve under you [Adama], these past three years. ([[Miniseries]])
:'''Adama:''' We [Thrace and I] talked about a lot of things. We've been aboard this ship for over two years, we know each other very well. ([[Act of Contrition]])
:'''Adama:''' She [Valerii] was more than that to us. She was more than that to me. She was a vital, living person... aboard my ship for almost two years. She couldn’t have been just a machine. Could you love a machine? ([[The Farm]])
:Also, note that the timeline in Adama's dossier (which seems to be accurate based on other data points) puts his transfer to ''Galactica'' at six years prior to the miniseries.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It is quite possible that this is not an error ''per se''. Adama and some of his command staff could easily have been assigned to the more modern Valkyrie from Galactica for the mission. It wouldn't make much sense to send "the bucket" on a stealth mission anyway. Notice Valkyrie seemed smaller and was probably more modernized, which would make it all the better for that type of mission. So Adama could easily have been in command of Galactica for several years prior, been offered command of Valkyrie as a reward, for career advancement or just for the mission... and have been pushed back to Galactica when the mission failed. Certainly the plan to decommission Galactica was in the works for some time, and they would not want one of their good commanders to retire with the ship... until after the mission where he failed. None of the characters would be expected to say "I served under Adama for some years, and some other guy for a couple of months, then Adama again." They would just say they served with him for X number of years. If we compare to the modern US Navy, this sort of thing is not all the uncommon.--[[User:Xealot|Xealot]] 10:22, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:::The dossier's progression from XO of ''Columbia'' to Commander of ''Valkyrie'' to Commander of ''Galactica'' seems to indicate that ''Valkyrie'' was his first battlestar command. Though I agree that the serve under "X years" would fly if they stayed under him. It's just the "this ship"'s that start biting them. (When they specify the ship instead of the command.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:53, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It's really embarassing in continuity. If they had put the entire affair a few years further into the past, it would have made much more sense not only in Adamas biography, but also in the overall plot. Boomer served on ''Galactica'' for two years and probably spend some additional time at flight school, so Adama must know the Cylon infiltration started long before the Stealth-Star incident. This should really get Adama to ask himself how long the attack had been planned, though he might convince himself that the Cylons put their infiltrators in place just as a precaution and his actions led to their decision to actually use them. A few years more time between the attack and the incident would put the estimated start of Cylon infiltration (which actually could be anywhere between 2 and 20 years before the attack) around the same time, giving Adama a far more powerful reason to believe that he started it right there. I would like to think that putting the incident one year before attack was just an accident, but then it would probably become even more difficult to explain how Bulldog survived that long.

::Another point that's problematic: did ''Valkyrie'' have an integrated computer-network? Up to this episode all information we had suggested that all battlestars save ''Galactica'' had them and that it was Adamas position of ''no network on my ship'' that prevented an upgrade.

::*If ''Valkyrie'' had a network Adamas politics of ''it's all hand on here'' are somewhat harder to believe. Up to now it looked like the position of a war-veteran who opposed networks on principle, this is harder to believe if he already commanded a ship with such a network.

::*If there was no network on ''Valkyrie'', then why wasn't there one? It appears extremely unlikely that the networks were all installed in the time between the incident and the attack, though the decision cannot have been made to long before Adama took command of ''Galactica'', because the previous commander would probably have had it installed. And given that it must have been a major decision to put networks on battlestars once more it's hard to believe that the Admirality would allow commanders to pull the plug on it as they see fit. I can imagine Adamas opposition being tolerated on ''Galactica'', because it was an old battlestar nearing it's decommissioning with a design that may have been especially hard to upgrade (regardless of Gaetas patchwork in [[Scattered]]). They could have simply decided that it was not worth the effort to force Adama to accept the upgrade. But that would be hard to believe for ''Valkyrie'', if you are sending a battlestar on such a sensitive mission you want it at maximum performance. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 14:49, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::The network thing isn't hugely problematic. We have no notion of how old ''Valkyrie'' was. ''Atlantia'' was at least 17 years old at the time of the attack (based on Adama's dossier), and was still worthy to serve as Nagala's flagship in the Miniseries. ''Galactica'' was even older. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:44, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:Adama's dossier may or may not help matters. If the screencap interpretation in the article is correct, then it is currently 21356 - based on the 45th anniversary of Adama's commissioning - which is consistent with what we know about Colonial Day and the Armistice. Therefore the Fall of the Colonies occurred in 21354, and that means the Valkyrie incident occurred in 21353 or thereabouts. However, the dossier goes on to state that Adama took command of Valkyrie in 21345, and Galactica in 21348. If the dossier is correct, then the Valkyrie incident had to take place in 21347 or 21348...which means that Adama's "graceful retirement" lasted for 6 years until the Fall. If this timeline is correct, then it basically blows all the dialogue in this episode out of the water, but validates everything we've seen and heard in the first two seasons. Of course, this is all contingent on the dossier being correctly interpreted - and I personally cannot make out the last two dates on screen. --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 19:55, 21 November 2006 (CST)

::That was the conclusion we came to above. The Dossier is [[:image:dossier.png|entirely legible]] and is visible on screen for over sixty frames. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:31, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:::I missed that part. That image is a lot clearer than the screenshot I had, as well. --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 10:24, 22 November 2006 (CST)

== Cylon detector problems ==

There's some inconsistency with the "Cylon Detector" that Doc Cottle used to determine that Bulldog was a human. First of all, if you look at the screen caps, [http://galacticabbs.com/index.php?act=module&module=gallery&cmd=si&img=56612|like this one], you can see that the screen says "-RESULTS NEGATIVE-" If he was testing the DNA against their military records, it should say "-RESULTS POSITIVE-" If it's negative, the DNA doesn't match. That, or it's supposed to be a Cylon Detector, and it's saying that he's not a Cylon. It seems like it could be a simple goof between dialogue and props.

However, going along with the DNA reasoning... that doesn't necessarily prove anything, does it? If they tested Boomer's DNA against the DNA they have on record for her, I assume it's going to match, since they probably took Cylon DNA initially. Who's to say that the same thing didn't happen to Bulldog? In that case, his DNA would match, but he'd be a Cylon. Seems like a poor determiner of race, that's all. I don't think that he's necessarily a Cylon, just that this is another "oops."

--It might prove something...if the Colonials have DNA records going all the way back to a person's birth. If they're matching against that kind of original record (heck, maybe they even have the parents' records, too), then that may well constitute proof. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:06, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Moved content ==

Folks, stuff like this needs to be removed (or reworded) on sight. Right now, this document reads a bit like it's arguing with itself. Before adding content that seems to contradict itself, please discuss it on the talk page -- that's what this feature is for.

Below, here's what I've removed thus far from the article that contradicts itself. Stuff like this, ''again'', must be hashed out on talk pages before entering the main article space. Thank you. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:52, 20 November 2006 (CST)

=== Removed content ===

*[[Dualla]] apparently served on the Valkyrie; she can be seen in the background standing behind Adama and Tigh in the flashback scenes.
**That person in the scene is most likley not Dualla; it's not easy to see because the flashback-scenes in the CIC have (deliberatly) not the best quality.

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-22T02:32:36Z

Xenophon10k: /* Possible Discontinuity */

== Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) ==
I was reading the quote from Eick, "...Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies." and for some reason I felt that thie reminded me of Gorge Washington long before we was president or even commander-in-chief when, before the 7-Years-War, Washington was involved in a skirmish with the French over Fort Necessity, aka Pittsburgh (yes, we fought a battle for that city) that led to Washington signing a treaty stating, unbeknownst to him because he couldn't speak French and his interpreter sucked, that he committed attrocities against France in the name of the British Empire. This, according to many historians, led to the 7 Years War, known in America as the French and Indian War, that would decimate Northern Germany. I'm sure Washington at some level had to be aware of this error on his part and led him to remorse I imagine. Anyways, the story is different but I was wondering how many parallels there will be, if there will be, in this episode to Washington's conundrum. I wanted to ask a question on the article page but couldn't concise it enough for wiki standards. I may ask on the scifi bboard but input on this would be appreciated before I do. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 19:42, 3 August 2006 (PST)
:That's an interesting analogy, showing a fine attention to historical detail. I think the parallel has minor flaws, though, since Washington's conduct in that matter isn't generally considered morally wrong so much as foolish. [[Wikipedia:Gavrilo Princip|Gavrilo Princip]] might be worth considering as a parallel; he was the immediate but not ultimate cause of a devastating war, and he precipitated the conflict by attacking his fellow countryman, thinking it justified in contrast to the general consensus. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:28, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

:: It's unlikely that Adama's actions are quite the transgression that he believes it to be; after all, the [[cylon agent|Cylons had been violating the armistice line]] for about a half a year prior to Adama's, anyway.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 02:09, 18 November 2006 (CST)

::: I was wondering about the timeline as well. I think Adama says somthing like, the mission was a year before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack]], but the cylons had been planning the attack for two years. However, I think there is an error in the timeline. Adama also says he served with Boomer for two years, and I think he implied that it was on Galactica. Gaeta also says that he served with Adama for three years. It is possible that Gaeta was on the Valkyrie for a year, but I think the mission happened about two years before the attack, not just one. I will rewatch the episode, but do you have any ideas? [[User:Jrmurph|Jrmurph]] 12:21, 18 November 2006 (EST)
:::: I think there is an inconsistency in the story. It is not unexplainable, ie Gaeta and Boomer served with Adama on the Valkyrie, but it did seem like nobody other than Adama or Tigh recognized Bulldog so the timeline is a little esquew. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:01, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Another Battlestar? ==
There is a spoiler image showing Adm Adama and Col Tigh in the CIC of the Battlestar Valkerie. I zoomed in on Adama and saw he had his Admiral's pins on. Might this be a sign that they soon will find yet another Battlestar? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:24, 15 November 2006 (CST)
: It's a flashback scene. It may be more of a costuming error. Note that Tigh still has his eye in that promo shot. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 01:39, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:: Right. Two eyed Tigh. Darn. I was hoping they'd find another Battlestar cause I do miss the Pegasus. It was bigger, much cooler and the doors made this cool "beep" when they opened. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:50, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::You can visit [[Valkyrie]] as well. It's a spoiler until Friday but you can adjust it with some new data later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::It's true, I saw the Admiral pips as well, the flashback should have been Commander pips; as the Stealth ship incident occurred three years ago. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 22:56, 17 November 2006 (CST)
: The Valkerie looked to be a Mercury class Battlestar. This would make sense because the galactica class was an older ship and has been all but replaced with the newer bigger and more efficent Mercury class.--[[User:Mike|Mike]] 09:30, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It's definately not a Mercury, the only part really similar is the engine block. If anything, it looked most like a reimagining of the original series battlestar, down to the rectangular opening in the flightpod and the angular head. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:47, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::Inside it looks like a Mercury yes. That's a sign of its age. But outside, it's far smaller than a full-sized battlestar. Look at the gun battery on the top. There's only one and almost covers the width of the ship there. See the Valkyrie page for more details (where this discussion should take place), but I think it's basically a smaller battlestar meant for support duties. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:52, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:: Not disagreeing with your main point, but its quite possible that there were far more Battlestar classes than just the "Cylon War Type" and the Mecurcy class, given that the colonies built up a fleet of arround 120 Battlestars over about 50 years, particularly as the Viper apparently went through 5 different itterations over this time, although we are likely never going to see the intervening versions of either type --[[User:Useless|Useless]] 09:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Barry Kennedy as Admiral Corman ==

Hey all, I was just checking on Barry Kennedy's link, and it links to an IMDB page other than his profile page detailing his filmography, and etc. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 23:52, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:That's because some people keep forgeting the "nm" when entering imdb numbers and in that case the link default to title instead of actor --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:53, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The Stealth-Star==
hey i just noticed this but the name of the ship was the stealth star so someone(not me)should create it a page. Best Snorkel378
:Already done [[Stealth Star]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:41, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The scene with Baltar, Six and Three in bed==
it says on there that 3 is having a sexual realationship with baltar and six?
Cylons arent lesbos i think they were having a 3some {{unsigned|Snorkel378}}
:You are assuming that the Six we see is Caprica-Six and not Baltar's internal Six. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 20:49, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It would be an odd choice cinematically to have Three wake up from a dream and show us something from inside Baltar's head. {{unsigned|Wldkt1}}
:::Please remembe rto sign your posts on talk pages guys <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:05, 19 November 2006 (CST)
The fact that Baltar and Six are in a 'clutch' position makes it unlikely that it's his internal Six. Three would have noticed Baltar trying to hug thin air in his sleep. Baltar is also in the center of the bed, rather than on one side. In addition, Caprica seems to be aware of (and approves) Three's new interest in Baltar. Regarding the possibility of a relationship between Three and Six: that is only speculation, but just because we haven't seen a lesbian relationship between cylons doesn't mean one isn't possible.[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 22:18, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:It could be that Caprica-Six sees this as a way to weaken Baltar--after all, the formula for getting Baltar to give up secrets seems pretty clear: get in his bed, get in his head, so to speak. Remember that during the torture in previous episodes, he said to Three, "I love you with all of my heart." That's what started the relationship, so I think Three is interested in Baltar for whatever reason, not necessarily Six. Plus, on a more humorous note...I have to wonder if the Cylons have any sexual relations amongst themselves at all. This could be one deprived Cylon... [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:24, 20 November 2006 (CST)
Speculation on Cylon sexual orientation aside, I think we all can agree that Baltar is one lucky sonofabitch. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:28, 21 November 2006 (CST)
:weell, if put aside the whole electro-shock thing and the drilling in the ear thing. Face it, Baltar had to work hard for that threesome.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 09:47, 21 November 2006 (CST)
::Well, yes, he did work hard for it, but doesn't everyone work hard for a threesome? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 17:53, 21 November 2006 (CST)

==The Black Ops Mission==
Does anyone think that the entire mission was poorly concieved? First, the Colonials jump a Battlestar to very close range of the armistice line, which one would expect to attract attention in and of itself. Second, we see the ''Valkyrie'' track the S-Star after launch and over the line. This either means the Valkyrie tracked it directly on DRADIS, which indicates it's not much of a stealth ship and that the Cylons should be able to detect it as well, or the S-Star has some sort of transponder reporting its position, which is also something the Cylons should detect. Finally, as referenced in the main article, the S-Star maintains radio contact with the ''Valkyrie'' throughout the whole mission, again something the Cylons should be able to detect. Would the writers have really overlooked all this, or are we meant to conclude that the Admriality meant for the mission to have been discovered by the Cylons? --[[User:Cleophus|Cleophus]] 22:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:-The mission is quite similar to the United States' U2 overflights during the late 1950's and 60's. Certain similarities between the depicted incident and the [[:wikipedia:U-2 Crisis of 1960|incident involving Francis Gary Powers]] can be read. It also conjures up several dozen observation flights by aircraft such as specially outfitted C-130's flying perilously close to a boundary line — even going so far as to slip a wingtip across it to "call a bluff". Also, there's the incident involving the Chinese Gai-8 fighter and the US P-3 Orion.
:In the case of our Colonials here, the stealth craft is more than likely equipped with an "odd frequency" (either very low or very high), encrypted transponder that transmits on a specific wavelength, only for IFF purposes. If I recall correctly, F-117 Nighthawks can still use their radios when on ops (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I suspect that this mission was proposed in order to get a glimpse into ''any'' Cylon activity. The stealth craft would be dangled out as a tiny bit of bait – just enough to get a response. Its stealth characteristics would increase its ability to dash back across the Armistice Line untracked and unaffected, and then ''Valkyrie'' would be able to observe and record the arriving Cylons. If questions were raised ("What are you doing here?" ... "Good question, what are ''you'' doing here?" ... "We detected you over the Armistice Line." ... "Who, us? Noooo... We've been on our side this whole time, just trolling about, watching over our miners over there on that moon there. So why are you here again? You don't mind if we take some photos of you while you're here, do you?"), the Colonials would feign ignorance and innocence, but they'd at least have a response... something that the Cylons haven't even projected in thirty-plus years. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:--Is it possible that the Stealth Star was shot down by a Colonial Force in hopes that it would percipitate a conflict? Similar to the Gulf of Tonkin? This way the Colonials can say one of their ships got lost and was destroyed by the Cylons in cold blood (Or something along those lines). Also, it makes no sense a ship would jump in, shoot the S-Star, and jump out. Why wouldnt it commit to killin the S-Star? --[[User:Skrip00|Skrip00]] 16:31, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:: Perhaps. We don't know either way. To be honest, after some seriously critical thought about it on my part, there's really not much of it that makes sense, since it was poorly explained in the episode. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:55, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==Folks in White Robes==
Aren't there five white-robed figures in Number Three's vision? It's pretty speculative, but maybe these are meant to represent the five missing Cylon models (maybe they've undergone some kind of transcendence, and are "with God now" or something). Maybe the article should note this (after all, the white-robes show up for the first time just a couple episodes after we first learn that there's definitely something different or mysterious about the five missing models), though I don't know the proper section for it. {{unsigned|Steve}}

:- I noticed that too, but was going to "acquire" the episode and re-watch that part, or watch it again on Monday to see... I _think_ there are five humanoid figures in white robes, kneeling or seated in that semi-circle when Three walks amongst them. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:Three's in the opera house on Kobol where Baltar's internal Six shows him Hera's cradle; I believe those are the same white drapes that can be seen on the opera house stage in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 11:38, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::Well I agree she's in the opera house from KLG, but I don't think I'm referring to the drapes. In the initial shot of the opera house, there seem to be five glowing figures standing between the six white drapes. Some of the quick shots of the opera house that follow show these figures, and some do not (as though they are alternately hiding and revealing themselves). At the end of her experience, Three approaches and reaches out to one of these figures just before she is resurrected. --[[User:Steve|Steve]] 02:50, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:::Sorry, you're right. I watched the episode again and noticed them. (Don't know why I missed them the first time, I was watching on a huge HDTV then!) I have a feeling that in the next few episodes, Three is going to keep having "accidental" deaths, and we'll see these figure again. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 20:26, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== Reference to Raising Arizona? ==

I'm new here, so I didn't want to jump right into the thick of things by adding this to the main page before running it by other people...when Adama and Novacek are sitting down for the first time, Adama asks him something like "How did you escape, Bulldog?". Novacek rambles for a little bit (again, I don't remember exact words) but wraps up with "I felt the facility no longer had anything to offer me...". If I'm not mistaken, this is a reference to Raising Arizona--John Goodman's character says just about the exact same thing after he breaks out of prison. I can't seem to find the line on IMDB or Wikiquote, though... {{unsigned|MikeDanger}}
:Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:08, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:As far as I remember "Raising Arizona", the dialogue goes like this: 
:''- You busted outta jail?'' 
:''- No, ma'am. We released ourselves on our own recognizance.'' 
:''- What Evelle is tryin' to say is we felt the institution no longer had anything to offer us.'' -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:28, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== Insight into Cylon plan ==
If the Cylons know where the Colonials are, or at least know well enough to send Bulldog at them, it's common sense to ask, why don't they just attack? Well, maybe their goal isn't to destroy Galactica et al outright but something more complex. One thing that does seem consistent with their plan is their desire to kill Adama, perhaps because they want to send the fleet into disarray without him at the top. Examples: Leoben telling Roslin that Adama's a Cylon in Flesh and Blood, Boomer shooting Adama repeatedly in Kobol's Last Gleaming Pt. II. There may be more examples that I can't think of right now.

People have been crying out "plot hole!" with reckless abandon in light of Bulldog's ability to pinpoint Galactica's position, but if the Cylon plan really is as simple as ''kill all humans,'' as these detractors might claim, then much of the show falls apart. The reality is, we don't really know the Cylon plan, and at this point, there's really no reason to jump to the conclusion that the writers are just too lazy to think of one. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 18:22, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:The Cylons might know full well where the Colonials are but if they jumped in a couple of Basestars then the fleet would zip out of there pretty sharpish and might go somewhere where the Cylons dont know and they will have to find them all over again. IMO, their plan is a long game. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 19:17, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:IMHO, "Hero" is the weakest episode of the series yet. There's just too many logic errors for me to dismiss as part of the "suspension of disbelief" process. For instance, how does Bulldog have the time to learn how to pilot a Cylon raider, when Starbuck took hours to figure out how to operate the thing? Also, how would Bulldog be able to operate the FTL drive -- Kobol's Last Gleaming pretty much made it clear that the FTL drive needed an actual computer, given that the brain had to be ripped out in order for it to be piloted manually. But that's another not so fine mess.
: As for the Cylon plans, well, they're clearly compliated and seem to be changing since the attack. Whether or not this is by design has yet to be detrmined, though I sincerely doubt that the writer's have this thing all planned out a la ''Babylon 5''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:30, 19 November 2006 (CST)

::Yeah, I know what you're saying. I also doubt it's all planned out B5-style (hasn't Ron basically said something to that effect anyway, like how much they enjoy making it up as they go along?), but that doesn't mean it necessarily can't all add up in the end, and we should assume that they ''do'' know what they are doing until they are proven wrong.

::Also, a lot of people have been talking about how unrealistic it is for Bulldog to have learned how to operate the raider in such a short time. I'm not trying to start an arguement about this, but I don't actually remember them saying that he had only a short time to learn how to use the raider. Are you guys just assuming that he had to learn it all quickly based on the rushed nature of his escape? Is there a reason he couldn't have actually had a few hours to do it? I mean, if they let him escape, then he could have been in the basestar hangar for hours trying to work the controls while they watched (and snickered) from behind the glass. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 23:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:I agree that a lot of people have seemed predisposed to cry foul lately--I can understand how the scientific goofs in "A Measure of Salvation" could've set people on edge--but I do think it's possible that if the Cylons are operating under a religious motivation, that their plan does go beyond a simple "kill all humans" approach. They may see the need to exact specific steps of revenge/torture against humanity, perhaps a particular punishment for each perceived offense. That's just one possibility, but it could well be they have the death of a thousand cuts in mind for the remnants of humanity. I think Drumstick's probably on to something here. Or you know, if they wanted Bulldog to escape, they could have trained a Raider (which wasn't injured like Starbuck's) to understand and obey his commands or even set it up with an interface that a human could use. Until we see proof or disproof of all the different theories, I think it's too early to try to claim BsG has jumped the shark or anything similar. I also have to wonder if anybody here has writing experience with writing a full-length work. I am working on my first novel, and keeping total, perfect consistency is not easy and while I tend to get the big things right, I am still finding a lot of subtle things that need tweaking, and this despite my best efforts. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:17, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Possible Discontinuity ==
According to the episode, Adama and friends served on the Valkyrie a year before the attacks. This implies that Adama was only commander of the Galactica for a year before the miniseries. Yet on the Kara Thrace article, it states that Thrace "resigned from flight school as a instructor and transferred as an operational pilot aboard battlestar Galactica under the command of William Adama, where she served for some '''two years prior to the Cylon attack''' on the Twelve Colonies." They can't both be right.

Also, from the Tyrol article: "He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including Columbia, Atlantia, and Pegasus (Resistance). He has served under William Adama on Galactica for five years (Litmus)." If he served under Adama for 5 years, why didn't he mention the Valkyrie when he was being intimidated by Tigh in Resistance? This could be simply because Tigh would have known that.--[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 22:16, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:No, your first impulse is correct - it's quite certainly an error.
:'''Gaeta:''' And... may I take this opportunity to say that it's been both a pleasure and an honour to serve under you [Adama], these past three years. ([[Miniseries]])
:'''Adama:''' We [Thrace and I] talked about a lot of things. We've been aboard this ship for over two years, we know each other very well. ([[Act of Contrition]])
:'''Adama:''' She [Valerii] was more than that to us. She was more than that to me. She was a vital, living person... aboard my ship for almost two years. She couldn’t have been just a machine. Could you love a machine? ([[The Farm]])
:Also, note that the timeline in Adama's dossier (which seems to be accurate based on other data points) puts his transfer to ''Galactica'' at six years prior to the miniseries.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It is quite possible that this is not an error ''per se''. Adama and some of his command staff could easily have been assigned to the more modern Valkyrie from Galactica for the mission. It wouldn't make much sense to send "the bucket" on a stealth mission anyway. Notice Valkyrie seemed smaller and was probably more modernized, which would make it all the better for that type of mission. So Adama could easily have been in command of Galactica for several years prior, been offered command of Valkyrie as a reward, for career advancement or just for the mission... and have been pushed back to Galactica when the mission failed. Certainly the plan to decommission Galactica was in the works for some time, and they would not want one of their good commanders to retire with the ship... until after the mission where he failed. None of the characters would be expected to say "I served under Adama for some years, and some other guy for a couple of months, then Adama again." They would just say they served with him for X number of years. If we compare to the modern US Navy, this sort of thing is not all the uncommon.--[[User:Xealot|Xealot]] 10:22, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:::The dossier's progression from XO of ''Columbia'' to Commander of ''Valkyrie'' to Commander of ''Galactica'' seems to indicate that ''Valkyrie'' was his first battlestar command. Though I agree that the serve under "X years" would fly if they stayed under him. It's just the "this ship"'s that start biting them. (When they specify the ship instead of the command.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:53, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It's really embarassing in continuity. If they had put the entire affair a few years further into the past, it would have made much more sense not only in Adamas biography, but also in the overall plot. Boomer served on ''Galactica'' for two years and probably spend some additional time at flight school, so Adama must know the Cylon infiltration started long before the Stealth-Star incident. This should really get Adama to ask himself how long the attack had been planned, though he might convince himself that the Cylons put their infiltrators in place just as a precaution and his actions led to their decision to actually use them. A few years more time between the attack and the incident would put the estimated start of Cylon infiltration (which actually could be anywhere between 2 and 20 years before the attack) around the same time, giving Adama a far more powerful reason to believe that he started it right there. I would like to think that putting the incident one year before attack was just an accident, but then it would probably become even more difficult to explain how Bulldog survived that long.

::Another point that's problematic: did ''Valkyrie'' have an integrated computer-network? Up to this episode all information we had suggested that all battlestars save ''Galactica'' had them and that it was Adamas position of ''no network on my ship'' that prevented an upgrade.

::*If ''Valkyrie'' had a network Adamas politics of ''it's all hand on here'' are somewhat harder to believe. Up to now it looked like the position of a war-veteran who opposed networks on principle, this is harder to believe if he already commanded a ship with such a network.

::*If there was no network on ''Valkyrie'', then why wasn't there one? It appears extremely unlikely that the networks were all installed in the time between the incident and the attack, though the decision cannot have been made to long before Adama took command of ''Galactica'', because the previous commander would probably have had it installed. And given that it must have been a major decision to put networks on battlestars once more it's hard to believe that the Admirality would allow commanders to pull the plug on it as they see fit. I can imagine Adamas opposition being tolerated on ''Galactica'', because it was an old battlestar nearing it's decommissioning with a design that may have been especially hard to upgrade (regardless of Gaetas patchwork in [[Scattered]]). They could have simply decided that it was not worth the effort to force Adama to accept the upgrade. But that would be hard to believe for ''Valkyrie'', if you are sending a battlestar on such a sensitive mission you want it at maximum performance. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 14:49, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::The network thing isn't hugely problematic. We have no notion of how old ''Valkyrie'' was. ''Atlantia'' was at least 17 years old at the time of the attack (based on Adama's dossier), and was still worthy to serve as Nagala's flagship in the Miniseries. ''Galactica'' was even older. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:44, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:Adama's dossier may or may not help matters. If the screencap interpretation in the article is correct, then it is currently 21356 - based on the 45th anniversary of Adama's commissioning - which is consistent with what we know about Colonial Day and the Armistice. Therefore the Fall of the Colonies occurred in 21354, and that means the Valkyrie incident occurred in 21353 or thereabouts. However, the dossier goes on to state that Adama took command of Valkyrie in 21345, and Galactica in 21348. If the dossier is correct, then the Valkyrie incident had to take place in 21347 or 21348...which means that Adama's "graceful retirement" lasted for 6 years until the Fall. If this timeline is correct, then it basically blows all the dialogue in this episode out of the water, but validates everything we've seen and heard in the first two seasons. Of course, this is all contingent on the dossier being correctly interpreted - and I personally cannot make out the last two dates on screen. --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 19:55, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== Cylon detector problems ==

There's some inconsistency with the "Cylon Detector" that Doc Cottle used to determine that Bulldog was a human. First of all, if you look at the screen caps, [http://galacticabbs.com/index.php?act=module&module=gallery&cmd=si&img=56612|like this one], you can see that the screen says "-RESULTS NEGATIVE-" If he was testing the DNA against their military records, it should say "-RESULTS POSITIVE-" If it's negative, the DNA doesn't match. That, or it's supposed to be a Cylon Detector, and it's saying that he's not a Cylon. It seems like it could be a simple goof between dialogue and props.

However, going along with the DNA reasoning... that doesn't necessarily prove anything, does it? If they tested Boomer's DNA against the DNA they have on record for her, I assume it's going to match, since they probably took Cylon DNA initially. Who's to say that the same thing didn't happen to Bulldog? In that case, his DNA would match, but he'd be a Cylon. Seems like a poor determiner of race, that's all. I don't think that he's necessarily a Cylon, just that this is another "oops."

--It might prove something...if the Colonials have DNA records going all the way back to a person's birth. If they're matching against that kind of original record (heck, maybe they even have the parents' records, too), then that may well constitute proof. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:06, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Moved content ==

Folks, stuff like this needs to be removed (or reworded) on sight. Right now, this document reads a bit like it's arguing with itself. Before adding content that seems to contradict itself, please discuss it on the talk page -- that's what this feature is for.

Below, here's what I've removed thus far from the article that contradicts itself. Stuff like this, ''again'', must be hashed out on talk pages before entering the main article space. Thank you. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:52, 20 November 2006 (CST)

=== Removed content ===

*[[Dualla]] apparently served on the Valkyrie; she can be seen in the background standing behind Adama and Tigh in the flashback scenes.
**That person in the scene is most likley not Dualla; it's not easy to see because the flashback-scenes in the CIC have (deliberatly) not the best quality.

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-22T01:55:53Z

Xenophon10k: /* Possible Discontinuity */

== Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) ==
I was reading the quote from Eick, "...Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies." and for some reason I felt that thie reminded me of Gorge Washington long before we was president or even commander-in-chief when, before the 7-Years-War, Washington was involved in a skirmish with the French over Fort Necessity, aka Pittsburgh (yes, we fought a battle for that city) that led to Washington signing a treaty stating, unbeknownst to him because he couldn't speak French and his interpreter sucked, that he committed attrocities against France in the name of the British Empire. This, according to many historians, led to the 7 Years War, known in America as the French and Indian War, that would decimate Northern Germany. I'm sure Washington at some level had to be aware of this error on his part and led him to remorse I imagine. Anyways, the story is different but I was wondering how many parallels there will be, if there will be, in this episode to Washington's conundrum. I wanted to ask a question on the article page but couldn't concise it enough for wiki standards. I may ask on the scifi bboard but input on this would be appreciated before I do. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 19:42, 3 August 2006 (PST)
:That's an interesting analogy, showing a fine attention to historical detail. I think the parallel has minor flaws, though, since Washington's conduct in that matter isn't generally considered morally wrong so much as foolish. [[Wikipedia:Gavrilo Princip|Gavrilo Princip]] might be worth considering as a parallel; he was the immediate but not ultimate cause of a devastating war, and he precipitated the conflict by attacking his fellow countryman, thinking it justified in contrast to the general consensus. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:28, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

:: It's unlikely that Adama's actions are quite the transgression that he believes it to be; after all, the [[cylon agent|Cylons had been violating the armistice line]] for about a half a year prior to Adama's, anyway.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 02:09, 18 November 2006 (CST)

::: I was wondering about the timeline as well. I think Adama says somthing like, the mission was a year before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack]], but the cylons had been planning the attack for two years. However, I think there is an error in the timeline. Adama also says he served with Boomer for two years, and I think he implied that it was on Galactica. Gaeta also says that he served with Adama for three years. It is possible that Gaeta was on the Valkyrie for a year, but I think the mission happened about two years before the attack, not just one. I will rewatch the episode, but do you have any ideas? [[User:Jrmurph|Jrmurph]] 12:21, 18 November 2006 (EST)
:::: I think there is an inconsistency in the story. It is not unexplainable, ie Gaeta and Boomer served with Adama on the Valkyrie, but it did seem like nobody other than Adama or Tigh recognized Bulldog so the timeline is a little esquew. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:01, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Another Battlestar? ==
There is a spoiler image showing Adm Adama and Col Tigh in the CIC of the Battlestar Valkerie. I zoomed in on Adama and saw he had his Admiral's pins on. Might this be a sign that they soon will find yet another Battlestar? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:24, 15 November 2006 (CST)
: It's a flashback scene. It may be more of a costuming error. Note that Tigh still has his eye in that promo shot. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 01:39, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:: Right. Two eyed Tigh. Darn. I was hoping they'd find another Battlestar cause I do miss the Pegasus. It was bigger, much cooler and the doors made this cool "beep" when they opened. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:50, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::You can visit [[Valkyrie]] as well. It's a spoiler until Friday but you can adjust it with some new data later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::It's true, I saw the Admiral pips as well, the flashback should have been Commander pips; as the Stealth ship incident occurred three years ago. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 22:56, 17 November 2006 (CST)
: The Valkerie looked to be a Mercury class Battlestar. This would make sense because the galactica class was an older ship and has been all but replaced with the newer bigger and more efficent Mercury class.--[[User:Mike|Mike]] 09:30, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It's definately not a Mercury, the only part really similar is the engine block. If anything, it looked most like a reimagining of the original series battlestar, down to the rectangular opening in the flightpod and the angular head. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:47, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::Inside it looks like a Mercury yes. That's a sign of its age. But outside, it's far smaller than a full-sized battlestar. Look at the gun battery on the top. There's only one and almost covers the width of the ship there. See the Valkyrie page for more details (where this discussion should take place), but I think it's basically a smaller battlestar meant for support duties. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:52, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:: Not disagreeing with your main point, but its quite possible that there were far more Battlestar classes than just the "Cylon War Type" and the Mecurcy class, given that the colonies built up a fleet of arround 120 Battlestars over about 50 years, particularly as the Viper apparently went through 5 different itterations over this time, although we are likely never going to see the intervening versions of either type --[[User:Useless|Useless]] 09:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Barry Kennedy as Admiral Corman ==

Hey all, I was just checking on Barry Kennedy's link, and it links to an IMDB page other than his profile page detailing his filmography, and etc. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 23:52, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:That's because some people keep forgeting the "nm" when entering imdb numbers and in that case the link default to title instead of actor --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:53, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The Stealth-Star==
hey i just noticed this but the name of the ship was the stealth star so someone(not me)should create it a page. Best Snorkel378
:Already done [[Stealth Star]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:41, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The scene with Baltar, Six and Three in bed==
it says on there that 3 is having a sexual realationship with baltar and six?
Cylons arent lesbos i think they were having a 3some {{unsigned|Snorkel378}}
:You are assuming that the Six we see is Caprica-Six and not Baltar's internal Six. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 20:49, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It would be an odd choice cinematically to have Three wake up from a dream and show us something from inside Baltar's head. {{unsigned|Wldkt1}}
:::Please remembe rto sign your posts on talk pages guys <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:05, 19 November 2006 (CST)
The fact that Baltar and Six are in a 'clutch' position makes it unlikely that it's his internal Six. Three would have noticed Baltar trying to hug thin air in his sleep. Baltar is also in the center of the bed, rather than on one side. In addition, Caprica seems to be aware of (and approves) Three's new interest in Baltar. Regarding the possibility of a relationship between Three and Six: that is only speculation, but just because we haven't seen a lesbian relationship between cylons doesn't mean one isn't possible.[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 22:18, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:It could be that Caprica-Six sees this as a way to weaken Baltar--after all, the formula for getting Baltar to give up secrets seems pretty clear: get in his bed, get in his head, so to speak. Remember that during the torture in previous episodes, he said to Three, "I love you with all of my heart." That's what started the relationship, so I think Three is interested in Baltar for whatever reason, not necessarily Six. Plus, on a more humorous note...I have to wonder if the Cylons have any sexual relations amongst themselves at all. This could be one deprived Cylon... [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:24, 20 November 2006 (CST)
Speculation on Cylon sexual orientation aside, I think we all can agree that Baltar is one lucky sonofabitch. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:28, 21 November 2006 (CST)
:weell, if put aside the whole electro-shock thing and the drilling in the ear thing. Face it, Baltar had to work hard for that threesome.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 09:47, 21 November 2006 (CST)
::Well, yes, he did work hard for it, but doesn't everyone work hard for a threesome? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 17:53, 21 November 2006 (CST)

==The Black Ops Mission==
Does anyone think that the entire mission was poorly concieved? First, the Colonials jump a Battlestar to very close range of the armistice line, which one would expect to attract attention in and of itself. Second, we see the ''Valkyrie'' track the S-Star after launch and over the line. This either means the Valkyrie tracked it directly on DRADIS, which indicates it's not much of a stealth ship and that the Cylons should be able to detect it as well, or the S-Star has some sort of transponder reporting its position, which is also something the Cylons should detect. Finally, as referenced in the main article, the S-Star maintains radio contact with the ''Valkyrie'' throughout the whole mission, again something the Cylons should be able to detect. Would the writers have really overlooked all this, or are we meant to conclude that the Admriality meant for the mission to have been discovered by the Cylons? --[[User:Cleophus|Cleophus]] 22:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:-The mission is quite similar to the United States' U2 overflights during the late 1950's and 60's. Certain similarities between the depicted incident and the [[:wikipedia:U-2 Crisis of 1960|incident involving Francis Gary Powers]] can be read. It also conjures up several dozen observation flights by aircraft such as specially outfitted C-130's flying perilously close to a boundary line — even going so far as to slip a wingtip across it to "call a bluff". Also, there's the incident involving the Chinese Gai-8 fighter and the US P-3 Orion.
:In the case of our Colonials here, the stealth craft is more than likely equipped with an "odd frequency" (either very low or very high), encrypted transponder that transmits on a specific wavelength, only for IFF purposes. If I recall correctly, F-117 Nighthawks can still use their radios when on ops (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I suspect that this mission was proposed in order to get a glimpse into ''any'' Cylon activity. The stealth craft would be dangled out as a tiny bit of bait – just enough to get a response. Its stealth characteristics would increase its ability to dash back across the Armistice Line untracked and unaffected, and then ''Valkyrie'' would be able to observe and record the arriving Cylons. If questions were raised ("What are you doing here?" ... "Good question, what are ''you'' doing here?" ... "We detected you over the Armistice Line." ... "Who, us? Noooo... We've been on our side this whole time, just trolling about, watching over our miners over there on that moon there. So why are you here again? You don't mind if we take some photos of you while you're here, do you?"), the Colonials would feign ignorance and innocence, but they'd at least have a response... something that the Cylons haven't even projected in thirty-plus years. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:--Is it possible that the Stealth Star was shot down by a Colonial Force in hopes that it would percipitate a conflict? Similar to the Gulf of Tonkin? This way the Colonials can say one of their ships got lost and was destroyed by the Cylons in cold blood (Or something along those lines). Also, it makes no sense a ship would jump in, shoot the S-Star, and jump out. Why wouldnt it commit to killin the S-Star? --[[User:Skrip00|Skrip00]] 16:31, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:: Perhaps. We don't know either way. To be honest, after some seriously critical thought about it on my part, there's really not much of it that makes sense, since it was poorly explained in the episode. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:55, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==Folks in White Robes==
Aren't there five white-robed figures in Number Three's vision? It's pretty speculative, but maybe these are meant to represent the five missing Cylon models (maybe they've undergone some kind of transcendence, and are "with God now" or something). Maybe the article should note this (after all, the white-robes show up for the first time just a couple episodes after we first learn that there's definitely something different or mysterious about the five missing models), though I don't know the proper section for it. {{unsigned|Steve}}

:- I noticed that too, but was going to "acquire" the episode and re-watch that part, or watch it again on Monday to see... I _think_ there are five humanoid figures in white robes, kneeling or seated in that semi-circle when Three walks amongst them. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:Three's in the opera house on Kobol where Baltar's internal Six shows him Hera's cradle; I believe those are the same white drapes that can be seen on the opera house stage in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 11:38, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::Well I agree she's in the opera house from KLG, but I don't think I'm referring to the drapes. In the initial shot of the opera house, there seem to be five glowing figures standing between the six white drapes. Some of the quick shots of the opera house that follow show these figures, and some do not (as though they are alternately hiding and revealing themselves). At the end of her experience, Three approaches and reaches out to one of these figures just before she is resurrected. --[[User:Steve|Steve]] 02:50, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== Reference to Raising Arizona? ==

I'm new here, so I didn't want to jump right into the thick of things by adding this to the main page before running it by other people...when Adama and Novacek are sitting down for the first time, Adama asks him something like "How did you escape, Bulldog?". Novacek rambles for a little bit (again, I don't remember exact words) but wraps up with "I felt the facility no longer had anything to offer me...". If I'm not mistaken, this is a reference to Raising Arizona--John Goodman's character says just about the exact same thing after he breaks out of prison. I can't seem to find the line on IMDB or Wikiquote, though... {{unsigned|MikeDanger}}
:Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:08, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:As far as I remember "Raising Arizona", the dialogue goes like this: 
:''- You busted outta jail?'' 
:''- No, ma'am. We released ourselves on our own recognizance.'' 
:''- What Evelle is tryin' to say is we felt the institution no longer had anything to offer us.'' -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:28, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== Insight into Cylon plan ==
If the Cylons know where the Colonials are, or at least know well enough to send Bulldog at them, it's common sense to ask, why don't they just attack? Well, maybe their goal isn't to destroy Galactica et al outright but something more complex. One thing that does seem consistent with their plan is their desire to kill Adama, perhaps because they want to send the fleet into disarray without him at the top. Examples: Leoben telling Roslin that Adama's a Cylon in Flesh and Blood, Boomer shooting Adama repeatedly in Kobol's Last Gleaming Pt. II. There may be more examples that I can't think of right now.

People have been crying out "plot hole!" with reckless abandon in light of Bulldog's ability to pinpoint Galactica's position, but if the Cylon plan really is as simple as ''kill all humans,'' as these detractors might claim, then much of the show falls apart. The reality is, we don't really know the Cylon plan, and at this point, there's really no reason to jump to the conclusion that the writers are just too lazy to think of one. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 18:22, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:The Cylons might know full well where the Colonials are but if they jumped in a couple of Basestars then the fleet would zip out of there pretty sharpish and might go somewhere where the Cylons dont know and they will have to find them all over again. IMO, their plan is a long game. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 19:17, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:IMHO, "Hero" is the weakest episode of the series yet. There's just too many logic errors for me to dismiss as part of the "suspension of disbelief" process. For instance, how does Bulldog have the time to learn how to pilot a Cylon raider, when Starbuck took hours to figure out how to operate the thing? Also, how would Bulldog be able to operate the FTL drive -- Kobol's Last Gleaming pretty much made it clear that the FTL drive needed an actual computer, given that the brain had to be ripped out in order for it to be piloted manually. But that's another not so fine mess.
: As for the Cylon plans, well, they're clearly compliated and seem to be changing since the attack. Whether or not this is by design has yet to be detrmined, though I sincerely doubt that the writer's have this thing all planned out a la ''Babylon 5''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:30, 19 November 2006 (CST)

::Yeah, I know what you're saying. I also doubt it's all planned out B5-style (hasn't Ron basically said something to that effect anyway, like how much they enjoy making it up as they go along?), but that doesn't mean it necessarily can't all add up in the end, and we should assume that they ''do'' know what they are doing until they are proven wrong.

::Also, a lot of people have been talking about how unrealistic it is for Bulldog to have learned how to operate the raider in such a short time. I'm not trying to start an arguement about this, but I don't actually remember them saying that he had only a short time to learn how to use the raider. Are you guys just assuming that he had to learn it all quickly based on the rushed nature of his escape? Is there a reason he couldn't have actually had a few hours to do it? I mean, if they let him escape, then he could have been in the basestar hangar for hours trying to work the controls while they watched (and snickered) from behind the glass. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 23:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:I agree that a lot of people have seemed predisposed to cry foul lately--I can understand how the scientific goofs in "A Measure of Salvation" could've set people on edge--but I do think it's possible that if the Cylons are operating under a religious motivation, that their plan does go beyond a simple "kill all humans" approach. They may see the need to exact specific steps of revenge/torture against humanity, perhaps a particular punishment for each perceived offense. That's just one possibility, but it could well be they have the death of a thousand cuts in mind for the remnants of humanity. I think Drumstick's probably on to something here. Or you know, if they wanted Bulldog to escape, they could have trained a Raider (which wasn't injured like Starbuck's) to understand and obey his commands or even set it up with an interface that a human could use. Until we see proof or disproof of all the different theories, I think it's too early to try to claim BsG has jumped the shark or anything similar. I also have to wonder if anybody here has writing experience with writing a full-length work. I am working on my first novel, and keeping total, perfect consistency is not easy and while I tend to get the big things right, I am still finding a lot of subtle things that need tweaking, and this despite my best efforts. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:17, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Possible Discontinuity ==
According to the episode, Adama and friends served on the Valkyrie a year before the attacks. This implies that Adama was only commander of the Galactica for a year before the miniseries. Yet on the Kara Thrace article, it states that Thrace "resigned from flight school as a instructor and transferred as an operational pilot aboard battlestar Galactica under the command of William Adama, where she served for some '''two years prior to the Cylon attack''' on the Twelve Colonies." They can't both be right.

Also, from the Tyrol article: "He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including Columbia, Atlantia, and Pegasus (Resistance). He has served under William Adama on Galactica for five years (Litmus)." If he served under Adama for 5 years, why didn't he mention the Valkyrie when he was being intimidated by Tigh in Resistance? This could be simply because Tigh would have known that.--[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 22:16, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:No, your first impulse is correct - it's quite certainly an error.
:'''Gaeta:''' And... may I take this opportunity to say that it's been both a pleasure and an honour to serve under you [Adama], these past three years. ([[Miniseries]])
:'''Adama:''' We [Thrace and I] talked about a lot of things. We've been aboard this ship for over two years, we know each other very well. ([[Act of Contrition]])
:'''Adama:''' She [Valerii] was more than that to us. She was more than that to me. She was a vital, living person... aboard my ship for almost two years. She couldn’t have been just a machine. Could you love a machine? ([[The Farm]])
:Also, note that the timeline in Adama's dossier (which seems to be accurate based on other data points) puts his transfer to ''Galactica'' at six years prior to the miniseries.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It is quite possible that this is not an error ''per se''. Adama and some of his command staff could easily have been assigned to the more modern Valkyrie from Galactica for the mission. It wouldn't make much sense to send "the bucket" on a stealth mission anyway. Notice Valkyrie seemed smaller and was probably more modernized, which would make it all the better for that type of mission. So Adama could easily have been in command of Galactica for several years prior, been offered command of Valkyrie as a reward, for career advancement or just for the mission... and have been pushed back to Galactica when the mission failed. Certainly the plan to decommission Galactica was in the works for some time, and they would not want one of their good commanders to retire with the ship... until after the mission where he failed. None of the characters would be expected to say "I served under Adama for some years, and some other guy for a couple of months, then Adama again." They would just say they served with him for X number of years. If we compare to the modern US Navy, this sort of thing is not all the uncommon.--[[User:Xealot|Xealot]] 10:22, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:::The dossier's progression from XO of ''Columbia'' to Commander of ''Valkyrie'' to Commander of ''Galactica'' seems to indicate that ''Valkyrie'' was his first battlestar command. Though I agree that the serve under "X years" would fly if they stayed under him. It's just the "this ship"'s that start biting them. (When they specify the ship instead of the command.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:53, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It's really embarassing in continuity. If they had put the entire affair a few years further into the past, it would have made much more sense not only in Adamas biography, but also in the overall plot. Boomer served on ''Galactica'' for two years and probably spend some additional time at flight school, so Adama must know the Cylon infiltration started long before the Stealth-Star incident. This should really get Adama to ask himself how long the attack had been planned, though he might convince himself that the Cylons put their infiltrators in place just as a precaution and his actions led to their decision to actually use them. A few years more time between the attack and the incident would put the estimated start of Cylon infiltration (which actually could be anywhere between 2 and 20 years before the attack) around the same time, giving Adama a far more powerful reason to believe that he started it right there. I would like to think that putting the incident one year before attack was just an accident, but then it would probably become even more difficult to explain how Bulldog survived that long.

::Another point that's problematic: did ''Valkyrie'' have an integrated computer-network? Up to this episode all information we had suggested that all battlestars save ''Galactica'' had them and that it was Adamas position of ''no network on my ship'' that prevented an upgrade.

::*If ''Valkyrie'' had a network Adamas politics of ''it's all hand on here'' are somewhat harder to believe. Up to now it looked like the position of a war-veteran who opposed networks on principle, this is harder to believe if he already commanded a ship with such a network.

::*If there was no network on ''Valkyrie'', then why wasn't there one? It appears extremely unlikely that the networks were all installed in the time between the incident and the attack, though the decision cannot have been made to long before Adama took command of ''Galactica'', because the previous commander would probably have had it installed. And given that it must have been a major decision to put networks on battlestars once more it's hard to believe that the Admirality would allow commanders to pull the plug on it as they see fit. I can imagine Adamas opposition being tolerated on ''Galactica'', because it was an old battlestar nearing it's decommissioning with a design that may have been especially hard to upgrade (regardless of Gaetas patchwork in [[Scattered]]). They could have simply decided that it was not worth the effort to force Adama to accept the upgrade. But that would be hard to believe for ''Valkyrie'', if you are sending a battlestar on such a sensitive mission you want it at maximum performance. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 14:49, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::The network thing isn't hugely problematic. We have no notion of how old ''Valkyrie'' was. ''Atlantia'' was at least 17 years old at the time of the attack (based on Adama's dossier), and was still worthy to serve as Nagala's flagship in the Miniseries. ''Galactica'' was even older. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:44, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:Adama's dossier may or may not help matters. If the screencap interpretation in the article is correct, then it is currently 21356 - based on the 45th anniversary of Adama's commissioning - which is consistent with what we know about Colonial Day and the Armistice. Therefore the Fall of the Colonies occurred in 21354, and that means the Valkyrie incident occurred in 21353 or thereabouts. However, the dossier goes on to state that Adama took command of Valkyrie in 21345, and Galactica in 21348. If the dossier is correct, then the Valkyrie incident had to take place in 21347 or 21348...which means that Adama's "graceful retirement" lasted for 6 years until the Fall. If this timeline is correct, then it basically blows all the dialogue in this episode out of the water, but validates everything we've seen and heard in the first two seasons. Of course, this is all contingent on the dossier being correctly interpreted...but it appears to be pretty consistent. --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 19:55, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== Cylon detector problems ==

There's some inconsistency with the "Cylon Detector" that Doc Cottle used to determine that Bulldog was a human. First of all, if you look at the screen caps, [http://galacticabbs.com/index.php?act=module&module=gallery&cmd=si&img=56612|like this one], you can see that the screen says "-RESULTS NEGATIVE-" If he was testing the DNA against their military records, it should say "-RESULTS POSITIVE-" If it's negative, the DNA doesn't match. That, or it's supposed to be a Cylon Detector, and it's saying that he's not a Cylon. It seems like it could be a simple goof between dialogue and props.

However, going along with the DNA reasoning... that doesn't necessarily prove anything, does it? If they tested Boomer's DNA against the DNA they have on record for her, I assume it's going to match, since they probably took Cylon DNA initially. Who's to say that the same thing didn't happen to Bulldog? In that case, his DNA would match, but he'd be a Cylon. Seems like a poor determiner of race, that's all. I don't think that he's necessarily a Cylon, just that this is another "oops."

--It might prove something...if the Colonials have DNA records going all the way back to a person's birth. If they're matching against that kind of original record (heck, maybe they even have the parents' records, too), then that may well constitute proof. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:06, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Moved content ==

Folks, stuff like this needs to be removed (or reworded) on sight. Right now, this document reads a bit like it's arguing with itself. Before adding content that seems to contradict itself, please discuss it on the talk page -- that's what this feature is for.

Below, here's what I've removed thus far from the article that contradicts itself. Stuff like this, ''again'', must be hashed out on talk pages before entering the main article space. Thank you. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:52, 20 November 2006 (CST)

=== Removed content ===

*[[Dualla]] apparently served on the Valkyrie; she can be seen in the background standing behind Adama and Tigh in the flashback scenes.
**That person in the scene is most likley not Dualla; it's not easy to see because the flashback-scenes in the CIC have (deliberatly) not the best quality.

Hero

2006-11-18T13:17:56Z

Xenophon10k: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| title= Hero
| image= Season 3 - Promo - Hero -Adama Tigh and Novacek.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 8
| guests= [[Carl Lumbly]]
| writer= [[David Eick]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-17
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,421
| prev= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
| next= [[Unfinished Business]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A [[Bulldog|figure]] from [[William Adama|Adama]]'s past returns to haunt him. His return raises questions about why the Cylons launched their initial attack against the [[Twelve Colonies]]. <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/hero/episode/748771/summary.html |title=TV.com Episode Summary}}</ref>''
== Summary ==

=== On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' ===

* ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' detects three [[Cylon Raider|Raiders]]. Much to the surpise of the [[CIC]] crew, two Raiders are pursuing a third. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] are dispatched. After destroying the pursuing Raiders, they go after the third.
* In CIC, Adama orders Kat and Starbuck to escort the Raider to ''Galactica'', after hearing [[Bulldog]]'s communication squaks.
* Kat and Starbuck escort the Raider in. In the hangar bay, Adama and the party that meets the Raider, surprised at the fact that a human appears to have piloted the craft. A visibly weak Bulldog salutes Adama; Adama returns the salute.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*In a dream, [[Three]] is trying to avoid marines on ''[[Galactica]]''. The marines corner her against a hatch labelled End of Line. The marines raise their weapons and Three tells them to shoot.
*As the shots go off, Three wakes up in bed with [[Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]]. She has apparently been having a sexual relationship with Baltar and possibly Six as well.
*In the Cylon control room Caprica-Six questions Three about her bad dreams. Caprica asks if the dreams are about Baltar and Three tells her that it's nothing like that, but does not elaborate.
*Three gives a centurion orders to shoot her, and then delete any information regarding the incident. The centurion obeys and shoots her in the head. In the moments before she is downloaded, she experiences images from her dream mixed in with memories from New Caprica and other more cryptic scenes.
*Three awakes in a rebirthing chamber where a worried Caprica-Six tries to help her recover. Three tells her, "There's something beautiful between life and death."

== Questions ==

*Did humans taken prisoner well before the Fall of the Twelve Colonies provide the original genetic pool for the humanoid Cylons?
*What class of battlestar does ''[[Valkyrie]]'' belong to?
*Why would Bulldog have been compelled to lie about the manner in which he escaped the basestar, and what motivated him to say what he did?
*Was ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' mission the only one the admiralty undertook or were there others?
*Was [[Laura Roslin]] right in speculating that the admiralty might have sent ''[[Valkyrie]]'' in order to provoke a war?
*Why did the Cylons have one craft jump in and fire on the stealth star, then jump out? Then send in two more ships to finish the attack? Could the first Cylon ship have really been sent by the admiralty to expose the stealth star?
*Who were the white-robed figures [[Three]] saw in her vision before downloading?
*Were the Cylons on the baseship where Bulldog was held really sick?

== Analysis ==
*At the end of the episode, [[Saul Tigh]] appears to be attempting to try and deal with his guilt over his wife, but he does not seem to want his job as XO back, at least not any time soon.
*Adama's feelings of guilt over his actions during ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' mission seem to shed new light on the motivation for his speech at ''[[Galactica]]'s'' decomissioning ceremony at the begining of the series.
*The Cylons seem to have been able to detect and destroy an advanced stealth fighter that had only entered two kilometers into their space. This seems suspicious given the fact that they were unable to detect the [[Blackbird]], presumably a far less sophisticated design. Either the Cylons had more advanced detection equipment on the [[Armistice Line]], or they had advance knowledge of Bulldog's mission.
*Bulldog's story is even less believable given the fact that it took Kara Thrace several hours to gut a raider and learn how to fly it. Granted, the Raider Kara captured was damaged, but it would still have taken Bulldog some time to adapt the raider for his own use.
*That Kara Thrace goes to Tigh with her findings is an acknowledgment of their shared semi-pariah status and the connection that was shown in "[[Collaborators]]" for the first time

== Notes ==

*In Number Threes dream, the door at which is she is shot by the marines is labled "End of Line". This is a statement repeated often by the Cylon [[Hybrid]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
*A video blog gives an insight to this episode during filming. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=videoBlog&vid=34824|title=Introducing Bulldog|date=2006-10-11|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=VID|language=}}</ref>

== Guest Stars ==
*[[imdb:nm0447921|Barry Kennedy]] as Admiral [[Corman]]
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
*[[Carl Lumbly]] as Lt. [[Daniel Novacek]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Hero

2006-11-18T13:11:23Z

Xenophon10k: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| title= Hero
| image= Season 3 - Promo - Hero -Adama Tigh and Novacek.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 8
| guests= [[Carl Lumbly]]
| writer= [[David Eick]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-17
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,421
| prev= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
| next= [[Unfinished Business]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A [[Bulldog|figure]] from [[William Adama|Adama]]'s past returns to haunt him. His return raises questions about why the Cylons launched their initial attack against the [[Twelve Colonies]]. <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/hero/episode/748771/summary.html |title=TV.com Episode Summary}}</ref>''
== Summary ==

=== On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' ===

* ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' detects three [[Cylon Raider|Raiders]]. Much to the surpise of the [[CIC]] crew, two Raiders are pursuing a third. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] are dispatched. After destroying the pursuing Raiders, they go after the third.
* In CIC, Adama orders Kat and Starbuck to escort the Raider to ''Galactica'', after hearing [[Bulldog]]'s communication squaks.
* Kat and Starbuck escort the Raider in. In the hangar bay, Adama and the party that meets the Raider, surprised at the fact that a human appears to have piloted the craft. A visibly weak Bulldog salutes Adama; Adama returns the salute.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*In a dream, [[Three]] is trying to avoid marines on ''[[Galactica]]''. The marines corner her against a hatch labelled End of Line. The marines raise their weapons and Three tells them to shoot.
*As the shots go off, Three wakes up in bed with [[Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]]. She has apparently been having a sexual relationship with Baltar and possibly Six as well.
*In the Cylon control room Caprica-Six questions Three about her bad dreams. Caprica asks if the dreams are about Baltar and Three tells her that it's nothing like that, but does not elaborate.
*Three gives a centurion orders to shoot her, and then delete any information regarding the incident. The centurion obeys and shoots her in the head. In the moments before she is downloaded, she experiences images from her dream mixed in with memories from New Caprica and other more cryptic scenes.
*Three awakes in a rebirthing chamber where a worried Caprica-Six tries to help her recover. Three tells her, "There's something beautiful between life and death."

== Questions ==

*Did humans taken prisoner well before the Fall of the Twelve Colonies provide the original genetic pool for the humanoid Cylons?
*What class of battlestar does ''[[Valkyrie]]'' belong to?
*Why would Bulldog have been compelled to lie about the manner in which he escaped the basestar, and what motivated him to say what he did?
*Was ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' mission the only one the admiralty undertook or were there others?
*Was [[Laura Roslin]] right in speculating that the admiralty might have sent ''[[Valkyrie]]'' in order to provoke a war?
*Why did the Cylons have one craft jump in and fire on the stealth star, then jump out? Then send in two more ships to finish the attack? Could the first Cylon ship have really been sent by the admiralty to expose the stealth star?
*Who were the white-robed figures [[Three]] saw in her vision before downloading?

== Analysis ==
*At the end of the episode, [[Saul Tigh]] appears to be attempting to try and deal with his guilt over his wife, but he does not seem to want his job as XO back, at least not any time soon.
*Adama's feelings of guilt over his actions during ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' mission seem to shed new light on the motivation for his speech at ''[[Galactica]]'s'' decomissioning ceremony at the begining of the series.
*The Cylons seem to have been able to detect and destroy an advanced stealth fighter that had only entered two kilometers into their space. This seems suspicious given the fact that they were unable to detect the [[Blackbird]], presumably a far less sophisticated design. Either the Cylons had more advanced detection equipment on the [[Armistice Line]], or they had advance knowledge of Bulldog's mission.
*Bulldog's story is even less believable given the fact that it took Kara Thrace several hours to gut a raider and learn how to fly it. Granted, the Raider Kara captured was damaged, but it would still have taken Bulldog some time to adapt the raider for his own use.
*That Kara Thrace goes to Tigh with her findings is an acknowledgment of their shared semi-pariah status and the connection that was shown in "[[Collaborators]]" for the first time

== Notes ==

*In Number Threes dream, the door at which is she is shot by the marines is labled "End of Line". This is a statement repeated often by the Cylon [[Hybrid]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
*A video blog gives an insight to this episode during filming. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=videoBlog&vid=34824|title=Introducing Bulldog|date=2006-10-11|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=VID|language=}}</ref>

== Guest Stars ==
*[[imdb:nm0447921|Barry Kennedy]] as Admiral [[Corman]]
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
*[[Carl Lumbly]] as Lt. [[Daniel Novacek]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Hero

2006-11-18T13:10:49Z

Xenophon10k: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| title= Hero
| image= Season 3 - Promo - Hero -Adama Tigh and Novacek.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 8
| guests= [[Carl Lumbly]]
| writer= [[David Eick]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-17
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,421
| prev= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
| next= [[Unfinished Business]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A [[Bulldog|figure]] from [[William Adama|Adama]]'s past returns to haunt him. His return raises questions about why the Cylons launched their initial attack against the [[Twelve Colonies]]. <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/hero/episode/748771/summary.html |title=TV.com Episode Summary}}</ref>''
== Summary ==

=== On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' ===

* ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' detects three [[Cylon Raider|Raiders]]. Much to the surpise of the [[CIC]] crew, two Raiders are pursuing a third. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] are dispatched. After destroying the pursuing Raiders, they go after the third.
* In CIC, Adama orders Kat and Starbuck to escort the Raider to ''Galactica'', after hearing [[Bulldog]]'s communication squaks.
* Kat and Starbuck escort the Raider in. In the hangar bay, Adama and the party that meets the Raider, surprised at the fact that a human appears to have piloted the craft. A visibly weak Bulldog salutes Adama; Adama returns the salute.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*In a dream, [[Three]] is trying to avoid marines on ''[[Galactica]]''. The marines corner her against a hatch labelled End of Line. The marines raise their weapons and Three tells them to shoot.
*As the shots go off, Three wakes up in bed with [[Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]]. She has apparently been having a sexual relationship with Baltar and possibly Six as well.
*In the Cylon control room Caprica-Six questions Three about her bad dreams. Caprica asks if the dreams are about Baltar and Three tells her that it's nothing like that, but does not elaborate.
*Three gives a centurion orders to shoot her, and then delete any information regarding the incident. The centurion obeys and shoots her in the head. In the moments before she is downloaded, she experiences images from her dream mixed in with memories from New Caprica and other more cryptic scenes.
*Three awakes in a rebirthing chamber where a worried Caprica-Six tries to help her recover. Three tells her, "There's something beautiful between life and death."

== Questions ==

*Did humans taken prisoner well before the Fall of the Twelve Colonies provide the original genetic pool for the humanoid Cylons?
*What class of battlestar does ''[[Valkyrie]]'' belong to?
*Why would Bulldog have been compelled to lie about the manner in which he escaped the basestar, and what motivated him to say what he did?
*Was ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' mission the only one the admiralty undertook or were there others?
*Was [[Laura Roslin]] right in speculating that the admiralty might have sent ''[[Valkyrie]]'' in order to provoke a war?
*Why did the Cylons have one craft jump in and fire on the stealth star, then jump out? Then send in two more ships to finish the attack? Could the first Cylon ship have really been sent by the admiralty to expose the stealth star?
*Who were the white-robed figures ''[[Three]]' saw in her vision before downloading?

== Analysis ==
*At the end of the episode, [[Saul Tigh]] appears to be attempting to try and deal with his guilt over his wife, but he does not seem to want his job as XO back, at least not any time soon.
*Adama's feelings of guilt over his actions during ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' mission seem to shed new light on the motivation for his speech at ''[[Galactica]]'s'' decomissioning ceremony at the begining of the series.
*The Cylons seem to have been able to detect and destroy an advanced stealth fighter that had only entered two kilometers into their space. This seems suspicious given the fact that they were unable to detect the [[Blackbird]], presumably a far less sophisticated design. Either the Cylons had more advanced detection equipment on the [[Armistice Line]], or they had advance knowledge of Bulldog's mission.
*Bulldog's story is even less believable given the fact that it took Kara Thrace several hours to gut a raider and learn how to fly it. Granted, the Raider Kara captured was damaged, but it would still have taken Bulldog some time to adapt the raider for his own use.
*That Kara Thrace goes to Tigh with her findings is an acknowledgment of their shared semi-pariah status and the connection that was shown in "[[Collaborators]]" for the first time

== Notes ==

*In Number Threes dream, the door at which is she is shot by the marines is labled "End of Line". This is a statement repeated often by the Cylon [[Hybrid]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
*A video blog gives an insight to this episode during filming. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=videoBlog&vid=34824|title=Introducing Bulldog|date=2006-10-11|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=VID|language=}}</ref>

== Guest Stars ==
*[[imdb:nm0447921|Barry Kennedy]] as Admiral [[Corman]]
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
*[[Carl Lumbly]] as Lt. [[Daniel Novacek]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Torn

2006-11-09T15:31:58Z

Xenophon10k: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| title= Torn
| image=Season 3 - Promo - Epi 5 - StarbuckTighAdama.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 6
| guests=
| writer= [[Anne Cofell Saunders]]
| story=
| director= [[Jean de Segonzac]]
| production= 306
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-03
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,422
| prev= [[Collaborators]]
| next= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
}}
== Overview ==
:''[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] create divisions between those who suffered under the Cylon occupation of [[New Caprica]] and those who stayed with the fleet. Meanwhile, [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] tries to prove his worth to the Cylons.''

== Summary ==

=== On [[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]] ===
* ''Galactica'''s air group runs exercises with the Viper pilots who settled on New Caprica and are thus out of shape. Captain Thrace breaks formation during the exercise and collides with another pilot, forcing an end to the war games, and causing Lee Adama - who resumes his post as [[CAG]] - to remove her from flight duty.
* [[Gaeta|Felix Gaeta]] meets with [[Laura Roslin]] and [[William Adama]] to discuss matters Baltar related. During the year before the Cylon Occupation of New Caprica, Baltar was obsessed with analyzing the data from Kobol to find the path to Earth. Based on passages in the [[Pythia|Scrolls of Pythia]], Baltar identified a nebula and two associated pulsars he believed to be a landmark on the road to Earth.
* Upon Thrace's return to her bunk, she is met by Kacey and her mother, whom she dismisses, telling the Kacey's mother not visit her again.
* In the pilots' rec room, Lieutenant [[Sharon Agathon]] is given the callsign "[[Athena]]" after she points out that, despite appearances, she is not "[[Boomer]]".
* Thrace and Tigh begin to sow dissent between the survivors of New Caprica and the crew that stayed behind on ''Galactica''.
* Adama confronts Thrace and Tigh on their behavior. He challenges them to shoot him, as their constant complaining is tantamount to pulling the trigger. When neither do, Adama demands they shape up and move on with their lives.
* Spurred by Adama's words, Thrace cuts her hair and appears to return to duty. Later, in uniform, she visits [[Kacey]] and her mother.
* Meanwhile, Tigh returns to his room and begins drinking to excess, finishing off one bottle and starting another.
* In a Raptor, Athena and [[Racetrack]] jump into range of the [[Lion's Head Nebula]], and are excited to find what the Scrolls described (an eye that blinks red and blue). They quickly realize, however, that they have jumped right next to the dying basestar.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*[[Gaius Baltar]], aboard the Cylon basestar, is having another hallucination. On a sunny beach, Gaius praises Six for returning to him in his time of need, and states that he enjoys having conversations with her. Six implores him to learn anything and everything about the Cylons, as he will need the information in the days ahead. Six also tells him that the Cylons use forms of projection to see the world around them, and when asked what she is, Six tells Baltar that she is an angel of God.
*Having been allowed to stay on the [[basestar]], [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Three]] talk with Baltar later on, inquiring about the location of [[Earth]]. Baltar initially denies having any knowledge of where Earth is, but then reveals that he does have clues as to where its probable location is. He then finds out that the [[Cylons]] intend to find Earth so they can use it as their new home.
*Baltar is apprehensive about helping the Cylons, and Caprica-Six tells him that the Cylons are also leery as to whether his intentions are true or not. Caprica-Six leads Baltar through the ship, telling him that she uses a projection of a forest to navigate the ship. In his mind, Baltar realizes that his form of projection is similar to what the Cylons are using, causing him to question whether he is human or a Cylon.
*Caprica-Six informs Baltar that his rescue of [[Hera]] and his assistance in finding Earth has made him a valuable asset, and has gone a long way in impressing the Cylons. Baltar asks why there are only seven models on the ship, and inquires about the remaining five models. Caprica-Six tells him that they don't talk about it. He asks whether they would recognize one of the others, but their conversation is interrupted by Three before she can answer.
* Three informs Caprica-Six that there is a situation, and a [[Five]] states that the basestar that went to check the pulsar has not reported back. The group head to a control center, where Baltar finds out that the missing basestar has been infected by a disease. The Cylons speculate and that any Cylon that dies and uploads to a [[Resurrection Ship]] might spread the virus even further. As a precautionary measure the Resurrection Ship is kept out of range. On the urge of his internal Six, Baltar offers to board the infected basestar and collect scientific information.
* Before he leaves on his mission, Baltar encounters the [[Hybrid|Cylon hybrid]] that controls the functions of the basestar. The hybrid is hooked into the ship's systems and continually vocalizes her seemingly non-sensical thoughts. Caprica-Six tells Baltar that it is thought by most of the Cylon models that the hybrid has gone insane from being connected to the [[Basestar]] and that her words hold no meaning, however the [[Leoben]] model considers the hybrid's words as coming from God.
* The Cylons provide Baltar with a Raptor to board the baseship, and when he arrives, he finds numerous Cylons, either dead or dying. He collects blood samples and takes pictures of the area to bring back for analysis, and also finds a large manmade object in the hold of the ship. He then finds a dying [[Six]] model (curiously with black hair), who informs him that the device the Cylons captured, a probe left by the [[13th Colony]]. Even though Baltar offers to bring her help, she tries to attack him, and he strangles her to death.
* Upon his return to the basestar, he denies finding anything that could have caused the outbreak of the virus, but Caprica-Six notices the probe object in Baltar's picture, but doesn't let on to anyone else what she has discovered.

== Questions ==
* Would it be possible for the Colonials to salvage the derelict basestar for their own purposes?
* What has happened to the remaining five Cylon models? Are they so secretive that none of the other seven variants have any knowledge of them? Did the Cylons permanently box the other models because they were dissenters to the cause of the Cylon race?
* If Baltar was able to extrapolate the location of the Lion's Head Nebula just from reading the sacred scriptures, can we not assume someone else could have conducted the same research at an earlier date?
* What is Caprica-Six going to do now that she realizes Baltar may be withholding critically sensitive information?
* Cally and Galen Tyrol are both seen working on the hangar deck. Who is taking care of their baby? Has a system been put in place to take care of crewmembers' children?
* Is Athena infected with the Cylon virus? {{spoilli|([[A Measure of Salvation|Answer]])}}
* As the probe is supposed to come from the 13th tribe, and is affecting Cylons, does that mean that Cylons have been exisiting in times of the 13th tribe? Or is just by accident that is viral for Cylons?
** What is the "genetic pool" that the human form Cylons all come from, and has it existed for longer than the Cylons themselves?
** Could the people on Earth be aware ''currently'' that the Cylons are after them, and have sent the probe to hinder the Cylons' efforts?
*** This is unlikely, as Baltar remarked that the probe looked very old.
* Is the virus biological or technological in nature? The "inevitable once we took human form" and "genetic pool" lines indicate that the Cylons think it is biological. On the other hand, their speculation that it could survive through a download process implies that it could technological in nature (i.e. computer virus). Or is the virus both biological and technological, like the Cylons themselves?
* Why did then-President Baltar investigate clues to Earth's location, given that he advocated abandoning that very search in his election campaign?

== Analysis ==
*The crew-position shuffle continues from last episode, but some definite decisions have been made:
**Lee has been demoted back to Major, and has resumed his old position as CAG, with Kat and Hot Dog as senior pilots under him. Starbuck is as well, until Adama revokes her flight status for reckless behaviour.
**As mentioned, it seems Kat has been demoted from CAG to leader of [[Blue Squadron]].
**As implied in "Collaborators", Helo keeps the XO slot aboard ''Galactica'' for now.
**Gaeta appears to have inherited Baltar's mantle as the scientific advisor (it is unclear whether he holds any additional positions), and is focusing his efforts on refining a course for Earth.
**Cally Tyrol is shown working the flight deck alongside her husband, showing that she is once again active in the Fleet.
*Following her actions during the Battle of New Caprica, Sharon Agathon seems to have garnered some degree of acceptance among the ''Galactica'' air group.
*"Athena" is the name of [[Athena (TOS)|Adama's daughter]] in the original series. This may be an allusion to the changing relationships on ''Galactica'': Sharon Agathon has replaced Kara Thrace as William Adama's surrogate daughter. (He tells Thrace, "You were like a daughter to me once. No more.") As [[Hot Dog]] states, Athena is also the name of a [[Athena, Lord of Kobol|Lord of Kobol]].
*The baseship hybrid appears to be viewed by the Cylons in the same way as the Centurions and Raiders. The hybrid has no vote in the Cylon decision-making process, despite its ability to express its thoughts and feelings, after a fashion.
*The Cylons have a [[Raptor]] and [[flight suit]] at their disposal, acquired during the occupation of [[New Caprica]] or from undestroyed Colonial military assets on the [[Twelve Colonies]]. This raises the possibility that the Cylons may have other Colonial ships in their possession.

==Notes==
*According to an [http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/4175/58/ interview] with executive producer [[David Eick]], episodes 5 and 6 are a two-part story in which ''Galactica'' discovers a dying Cylon Baseship, and deals with a plague that has befallen the Cylons. (Eick is counting "Occupation" and "Precipice" as one episode.)
*The phrase "end of line," uttered by the [[Hybrid|Cylon hybrid]] in this episode, is a possible reference to the film ''[[w:Tron (film)|Tron]]'', in which the [[w:Master Control Program (Tron)|Master Control Program]] finishes its sentences with "end of line."
**This may also be a play on the episode title. ''Torn'' is an anagram of ''Tron''.
**[[w:End_of_Line|End of line]] is also a computing term, referring to the character used to signal a new line in text-based protocols.
* In the PC game ''[[w:Homeworld|Homeworld]]'', [[Wikipedia:Karan S'jet|Karan S'jet]], a young female neuroscientist, integrates her physical body into the Mothership to serve as its living CPU. This is similar to the function of the Cylon hybrid. (Although S'jet chose to do so voluntarily, and it is unlikely, from comments by [[Three]], that the Cylon hybrids were given a choice.) The backstory to the game's sequel ''[[w:Homeworld 2|Homeworld 2]]'' descibes S'jet as undergoing a similar metaphysical experience while integrated with the Mothership as Caprica-Six describes of the hybrid.
* The idea of using living creatures as central processing units of large ships has been visited before in both literary and filmed science fiction. For example the pilots in ''[[w:Dune|Dune]]'' serve a similar function while under the influence of the Spice. In Norman Spinrad's novel "The Void Captain's Tale", some women become pilots because they believe to achieve a better insight into god's creation, thus having a spiritual experience. This is similar to Leoben's beliefs about the hybrids. Recent television series with living CPUs include ''[[w:Babylon 5|Babylon 5]]'', with human telepaths in the [[w:Shadow (Babylon 5)|Shadows]] vessels, and ''[[w:Farscape|Farscape's]]'' Pilot, though in the latter case, Pilot is more like a conduit between the crew and a sentient ship in its own right.
*According to the podcast for the episode, the hybrid's visual look was inspired by the precogs in ''[[w:Minority Report|Minority Report]]''.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''On Galactica's flight deck'':
:'''Chief Tyrol''': (checking Starbuck's Viper) Captain, how did you land this thing?
:'''Kara Thrace''': Pointed it towards the deck and stopped when I got here.
:'''Hot Dog''': Bone-dry, she says. Landed the bird without a drop of fuel.
:'''Lee Adama''': (walking up to Kara) If you want to die, I will open up an airlock for you, but you are not taking one of my Vipers with you.
:'''Kara Thrace''': The bird's on the deck. ''I'm'' on the deck. I don't know what you're bitching about.
:'''Lee Adama''': I don't give a frak what you do, Starbuck. You're done flying.

*''In the crew mess aboard Galactica'':
:'''Helo''': (referring to the rescue on New Caprica) Hey, we all made sacrifices.
:'''Saul Tigh''': Is that so?
:'''Helo''': Yes, that's right.
:'''Saul Tigh''': Well, while you were pinning wings on your Cylon girlfriend, our people were strapping homemade bombs to their chest, doing what they could to take the bastards out. So forgive me if I don't get all misty over your sacrifices.

*''Adama's feelings towards, and regarding, Starbuck'':
:'''Adama''': You were like a daughter to me once - no more. You're malcontent and a cancer, and I won't have you on my ship. So you have a choice - you can figure out how to become a human being again, and an officer; or you can find another place to live, off of this ship. You're dismissed.

*''The Hybrid's objection to leaving the infected Basestar behind'':
:'''Hybrid''': Mists of dreams drip along the nascent echo, and love no more. End of line.

== Guest Stars ==

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Jean de Segonzac]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:The Woman King/Archive 1

2006-10-09T11:37:38Z

Xenophon10k: Title

== Wild and Crazy speculation!!!!!!!! ==
OK, OK, OK, OK! I know somebody is going to blow my last addition out of the water about the GateWorld crap but I just create a link to a page that has revealed some now confirmed data even though there is other unconfirmed data in the article. I wanted to create the opportunity for the reader to make an assessment for him/herself. I know, I know, I know the policies on this stuff, but I'm testing the waters.... --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 15:04, 23 September 2006 (AST)

== Title ==

"Woman King" is the title of a song and E.P. album by Iron & Wine. Maybe someone on the writing staff is a fan? --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 06:37, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Home, Part II

2006-04-04T17:32:50Z

Xenophon10k:

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:tomblobby.jpg|300px]]
| Title=Home, Part II
| Series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| Season=[[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode=7
| Guests=
| Writer=[[David Eick]] & [[Ronald D. Moore]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Jeff Woolnough]]
| Production=2.07
| Rating= 2.1
| US Airdate=August 26 2005
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=December 20 2005 (US Season 2.0)
| Population=47,855
| Prev=[[Home, Part I]]
| Next=[[Final Cut]]
}}
== Overview ==

:''Adama leads a mission to Kobol to find President Roslin and her team of tomb-hunters, reconcile with his son, and reunite the divided fleet.''

== Summary ==
* [[Laura Roslin]]'s scouting team makes its way through rain and cold towards the [[Gates of Hera]] and the [[Tomb of Athena]]. With the death of [[Elosha]], Roslin now has to interpret what information they have of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] by herself or using the help of the second copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]].
* Meanwhile, on ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and others on the command staff pore over their topography data of [[Kobol]] to determine Roslin's whereabouts. Adama plans a [[Raptor]] expedition to Kobol, travelling himself to "reach out" to Roslin there and work to mend fences.
* [[Meier]] and [[Tom Zarek]] continue to seek an opportunity to eliminate [[Lee Adama]] to gain a political advantage with Roslin and the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]. Zarek warns Meier that any action against Captain Adama must not occur before the team finds the Tomb.
* [[Gaius Baltar]] begins to strongly deny the existence of his virtual [[Number Six]]. Six turns the tables by reappearing in a more casually dressed manner and claiming that Baltar is, indeed, crazy. Six claims that Baltar doesn't really have a "chip" in his head implanted by the Cylons, and that she is actually part of his own subconscious "[[frak]]king with (his) mind." She challenges him to visit [[sickbay]] for a brain scan to convince him of her "revelation."
* Adama brings along [[Galen Tyrol]] and [[Billy Keikeya]] aboard [[Racetrack]]'s Raptor to accompany him on his expedition. Adama feels Billy's presence will help his mission with Roslin. He relates that Roslin feels that Keikeya will become president himself one day.
* [[Helo]]'s Valerii is happy to be "back in the Fleet", although she herself was never physically there; she is sharing her memories of her dead [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica'' counterpart]].
* [[Kara Thrace]] relates information on the [[Resistance (movement)|Caprica resistance]] to Roslin, but Roslin states that her current thoughts are focused only on the location of the Tomb, cutting off Thrace's [[Scar|first attempt]] to fulfill her promise to [[Samuel Anders]].
* Meier begins to solicit Sharon Valerii's help as a pawn to kill Lee Adama so as not to leave suspicion on himself or Zarek. He twists the story of the fate of her ''Galactica'' counterpart to upset her.
* A brain scan performed by Dr. [[Cottle]] confirms for the agitated Baltar that there are no ''mechanical'' devices or abnormalities in his head. Cottle writes off Baltar as another hypochondriac.
* Commander Adama's team finds Roslin's camp. The commander, his son and Thrace exchange warm hugs, and Commander Adama gives a sincere welcome to Roslin. Roslin is particularly happy to see Keikeya.
* The mood of the reunion sours when Commander Adama sees the second Valerii. Upset, he attacks her and throws her to the ground, but stops his assault when the pressures of his recovery form anxiety that causes him chest pain. Valerii says, "And you ask 'why?'" (mysteriously answering Adama's question, "Why?" said over her ''Galactica'' counterpart's dead body).
* Roslin and Commander Adama bury the hatchet in their first heart-to-heart conversation about themselves and the Fleet. When Roslin brings up the Caprican resistance and whether abandoning the Colonies was the best idea, Commander Adama cuts her off, stating that Roslin saved his life, and that of his son. If he did not take her advice, they would all be dead.
* With Commander Adama in the group, Tom Zarek tells Meier to abandon their plans on Lee Adama, but Meier secretly continues the plan, giving Sharon Valerii one of his [[Stallion|civilian sidearms]] to shoot Lee Adama while he and another Zarek team member work to shoot Commander Adama.
* Valerii relates her feelings to Helo on how the Fleet sees her and other Cylon agents: as machines, not people, with no rights. Realizing what Meier is trying to do (but not relaying the story to Helo), she tells Helo to trust her in what must be done next.
* The team finds the Tomb of Athena. Immediately, Valerii raises her gun towards Commander Adama as Meier raises his gun to Lee Adama's head. But Valerii is feinting: She shoots Meier instead while Lee Adama kills another Meier conspirator that raised his gun at him. Valerii states to Commander Adama that, unlike "Boomer", she is aware of who and what she is, and that she makes own decisions on her destiny. She surrenders her gun to Commander Adama as her first of [[Flight of the Phoenix|many]] overtures of good faith.
* The [[Arrow of Apollo]] is not a key to the door of the Tomb; the expedition pushes the door open. Commander Adama leaves Zarek, Valerii, and Helo guarded by Tyrol outside while Roslin, the Adamas, Keikeya and Thrace enter the Tomb. Inside, they find [[Wikipedia:Sarchophagus|sarcophagi]], each bearing statues that represent the tribal symbols. One status, Sagittaron, is missing his arrow.
* When the Arrow is placed on the Sagittaron statue, a hologram of sorts activates around the team, placing them on a grassy field surrounded by stone pillars with glowing representations of the ancient tribal symbols that would later form the symbols of the Colonies. They soon deduce that they are standing on a representation of [[Earth]] in a planetarium of sorts that shows the Zodiac: the constellations form a representation what the Thirteenth Tribe would see from the vantage of Earth's sky.
* Lee Adama finds what they came for in the virtual sky above: The [[Wikipedia:Lagoon_Nebula|Lagoon Nebula]], a celestial point known to the Colonials as well, which now provides the Fleet both a destination and a direction to Earth, although Commmander Adama warns that the Nebula is very far away.
* Back on ''Galactica'', Adama completes his reunification of the Fleet and fence-mending by leading a rousing ovation for the reinstated President Roslin at an assembly in the port [[Hangar Deck|hangar deck]], complete with cheers from the crowd.
* Sharon Valerii is placed in the special brig designed for her counterpart. Helo visits her while Gaius Baltar watches with his virtual Number Six, who now returns in her usual form. She claims now that she is an "angel of [[God]]" with a mission to guide and protect Baltar "until the end of the human race."

== Questions ==
* How did Adama and the others return from the map of Earth?
**What exactly was the map of Earth? Were they in the same room in the Tomb of Athena, and a 3D hologram was projected around them? Could it have been "all in their heads?" If so, would it even be perceived by the Cylons if they tried to view it?
***In Ron D. Moore's blog on the official Scifi.com site, October 14, 2005 entry, Moore says that the map was "probably a holographic projection of some sort". As for what was preventing the Cylons finding the map now that the Tomb was open, Moore said that they planned to have Cylon Centurions attack again at the Tomb, destroying the hologram projector, however it was decided not to do this because it didn't flow well dramatically.
****Presumably, the Colonials took the Arrow with them and without it the map won't turn on.
**Did they retrieve the Arrow of Apollo? Is the map still active? If the Cylons find the map in working order and can use it, could they use the strength of their information networks to find Earth before the colonials do?
*Just who or what is the copy of Number Six that Dr. Baltar sees all the time? It is firmly established that she is not some sort of computer chip in his head, but at the same time it is established that she can't possibly be just a hallucination by Baltar's guilt-ridden subconscious mind. Baltar himself has come to the realization that she is aware of actual facts (like that a Cylon copy pregnant with a hybrid child would be brought into the new brig) that his own subconscious couldn't possibly have known of. Six herself simply said that she's "an angel of God sent here to protect you [Gaius]". Is she truly some form of supernatural force (like Count [[Iblis]] in the Original Series)? Repeated medical scans showed no foreign objects in Baltar's mind.
**Could [[Gaius Baltar]] himself be a Cylon?
**Could the Cylons simply have developed an "organic chip" that would be indestinguishable from Baltar's normal brain tissue when scanned? (Cylons do seem to have mastered much of bio-mechanical engineering.) If so, does Six exist more like a transponder from a nearby Cylon source, where his body and mind can be monitored by what he sees and does, and responses and an image of Six sent to him. Obviously, from his virtual sex with Six, the connection also can control his senses and manupulate him like a marionette: Six's image could even assault Baltar ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).
**While the Cylons have made notable advancements in macro-bioenginering, they may still lack the required expertise in micro-bioengineering as it relates to cells, most notably demonstrated by their inability to create human/Cylon embryos at will ([[The Farm]]). If there is not a chip in Baltar's head, and he is not hallucinating, could this add more to the speculation that Baltar himself is a [[Cylon agent]]? (See [[Gaius Baltar]]'s page for arguments for and against this theory in the Speculation section.)
**How was Six capable of moving the chair in the Cylon holding cell? The chair was seen in both positions in "objective" shots (i.e. shots not from Baltar's POV that didn't include Six.)
***This may be a simple continuity error or it might suggest that Six can selectively appear as a physical manifestation, as hinted at by the appearance of [[Shelly Godfrey]].
***Baltar could have simply hallucinated that she moved it.
*Caprica-Boomer reminded Adama that he asked her Galactica counterpart's corpse "why" in [[Resistance]]. How did she know, without also knowing that Galactica Boomer had been killed? Or, was Boomer answering Adama's question of "why" from his attack: that humans have always abused Cylons as he had just done?
**Along that line, in the previous scene with [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], Caprica-Boomer mentions how she was able to remember portions of her life (such as getting her wings), and not others (such as the assassination of [[William Adama]]). Is the communication between copies delayed or possibly selective, even in death?
***Caprica-Sharon elaborated on this more in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]", in which she is actually referring to Adama's question of "Why are we as a species worthy of survival?" asked in the [[Miniseries]]. The connation that she is referring to Adama's emotional question of "Why?" to Galactica-Sharon's corpse in this same episode could just be the result of messy editing.
*How can Adama use the Messier number M8 to refer to the Lagoon Nebula? The Messier catalog was created in 1774, on Earth. Possible answers:
**Language and nomenclature in the show is allegorical. Same reason the Colonials speak English, same reason Adama references the game of craps ("gotta roll a hard six"), same reason all the characters have Western names.
**Parallel development between Earth and the Twelve Colonies extends past attire, vehicles, medicine and government documents to include highly specific astronomical nomenclature.
**The show is set in the past, and Galactica arrives at Earth in time to influence 18th century astronomy.
**The show is set in the distant future, and the inhabitants of Kobol are actually descendents of an Earth-based population, some of whom returned after a vaguely-alluded-to disaster.
***This is supported by otherwise difficult to explain terms such as the Battlestar [[Columbia]], which appears to be named for the 15th century Earth explorer [[Wikipedia:Christopher Columbus|Christopher Columbus]].
***It is also supported by the setup of the map itself. Only someone who could have been on Earth originally could have properly plotted out the Zodiac constellations as seen from Earth. Unless of course the map was created by the Lords of Kobol, whoever or whatever they were.
*What are Tom Zarek's true motivations? We see in [[Home, Part I]] that he had a desire to become the next "Fleet Commander", like [[William Adama]], and willing to go along and eliminate anyone in his way, such as [[Lee Adama]]. Yet during the foray on Kobol, he reverses his position and applauds [[Laura Roslin]] when she re-assumes the presidency.
*Caprica-Sharon's claim that the Cylons know more about Colonial religion than the Colonials raises interesting questions. The Cylons had direct access to the Arrow of Apollo and had at least a token presence on Kobol. If all of them knew where the Tomb of Athena was as Valerii claims, why didn't they use this knowledge to locate Earth themselves?

== Analysis ==
*The map to Earth is believable and satisfying: no goofy special effects or flaming letters spelling out "Go This Way," just basic astronomy. It gives the Colonials both a "compass" and "landmarks" to follow.

*The compass is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagoon_Nebula Lagoon Nebula], an actual nebula visible from both Earth and the Colonies. Assuming the Colonials' astronomical instruments are advanced enough to permit them to see the nebula from a greater distance than we can, the Lagoon Nebula gives them a general direction to head toward. They also know that Earth is within realistic traveling distance, and they know that Earth will be in a sphere centered on the Lagoon Nebula. The twelve star groupings that appeared on the Colonies' original flags are actual constellations, the twelve signs of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac Zodiac] (Aquarius, Aries, Cancer, Capricorn, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Pisces, Sagittarius, Scorpio, Taurus and Virgo). These constellations will serve as landmarks: at the right planet, or within perhaps a few light-years of the nebula, these constellations will begin appear as they do on the Colonials' flags, assuming that they compensate for the natural drift of stars relative to Earth over time, as constellations are not static.

*If each of the Twelve Tribes had an associated symbol that the Thirteenth Tribe identified in their constellations, did the Thirteenth Tribe have one of their own? There is a thirteenth constellation in the Zodiac, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus Ophiuchus] the snake-bearer, which is not included in astrology.

:Ophiuchus may, however, be included in Greek mythology, as it is speculated that the snake-bearer represents Asclepius, the healer. The story of Asclepius is that he learned the secrets of life and death while watching one snake cure another snake he had wounded. Zeus struck Asclepius down out of fear that, under his care, the human race could become immortal.

*As the nebula and constellations in the map to Earth are recognizably ours, this would appear to indicate that the Tomb of Athena isn't a Cylon construct intended to lead the Colonials astray.

*Even so, it could take the Colonials years of searching within the vicinity of the Lagoon Nebula to find Earth.

* This may be the first episode where Adama and the President call each other by their first names, and not formally: "Bill" and "Laura." By the end of this episode, it appears that Adama realizes that, while Roslin did step over the line with her redirection of Starbuck, that there was a logical need to get information on Earth in any way possible. After his near-death experience, Adama seemed more resigned that they should all meet their doom or glory together rather than separate. Roslin reinforced the fleet's hope and gave it direction and purpose. Adama's rousing formal applause generation for Roslin at the end of the episode shows that Adama has firmly buried the hatchet between himself and the President.

* Commander Adama's sense of humor is returning: first in his talk with Billy about Roslin's comments on his future of being president someday ("Don't let it go to your head: [[Richard Adar|Adar]] was a moron.") and in his glib comment on how well their luck was going so far, as their Raptor's descent subjected them to several G-forces and pressed both of them firmly, visibly and uncomfortably against the bulkheads.

* Helo is already experiencing repercussions regarding his relationship with Caprica-Boomer. First by Apollo, who voices his uneasiness about the pair to Starbuck and then later, indirectly, by Commander Adama himself who makes a point of leaving Helo outside the Tomb of Athena with Zarek, Boomer and Tyrol. Tyrol was given the order to guard them which indicates that the chief is the only one of the four left outside that Adama trusts.

== Notes ==
*Population is 47,855, a loss of three since Part I. Two of these were seen on-screen in the last episode (Elosha and a [[Laura Roslin faction]] [[Wikipedia: Redshirt (character)|Redshirt]]). The other may have happened offscreen in the same ambush.
** At episode's end, the count is now 47,853, with the death of [[Meier]] and one of [[Tom Zarek]]'s lackeys.
*The fleet has been reunited, and Commander Adama has restored Laura Roslin to the Presidency.
*The Fleet now has a general idea of the direction they need to take to find Earth.
*Helo still loves Caprica-Sharon, although he knows she's a Cylon.
*Caprica-Sharon's hybrid child is a girl. She claims to just "know" this.
*The child that Six claims she and Baltar will have ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]) is actually Caprica-Sharon and Helo's biological daughter.
*Caprica-Sharon does not "remember" shooting Commander Adama, and she was unaware that Galactica-Sharon was killed by [[Cally]] (she thought she was just in the [[brig]]). Sharon thinks of herself as a "person" and not simply "a machine".
*Caprica-Sharon possesses the memories of Galactica-Sharon's two years aboard the ''Galactica''. She "remembers" how exhilarating it was to get her wings and how it felt to be a member of the "family" that is the Galactica's crew, and she considers Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] a dear friend of sorts, even though she admits she herself has never actually met him. Caprica-Sharon herself acknowledges that it's weird that she has deep-seated memories of things she fully knows she's never actually done.
*Caprica-Sharon apparently still believes that there is only "one true God" and that the Colonials "worship false idols".
*Caprica-Sharon flat out says that the Cylons know more about the Colonial religion than the Colonials themselves.
*According to Starbuck's observations, the Cylons have a plan for Caprica; "they're cleaning up the bodies, moving in the heavy machinery to repair the infrastructure..."
**Ron D. Moore has stated in interviews that this is actually a major plot point. Also, while the Cylon [[Farms]] (the hybrid experiments) are logically ''a'' plan for the Twelve Colonies, RDM said that it is not their ''only'' plan.
*Dr. Baltar has had a medical scan performed on his head, and it appears that there are no "foreign objects", like a metallic computer chip containing a copy of Number Six's mind, within it.
*Baltar has come to the realization that the copy of [[Number Six]] he sees cannot be just a hallucination, because she knows things his subconscious mind couldn't possibly know.
*This episode probably begins a few hours after [[Home, Part I]], although it could conceivably begin immediately after it.
*If the map displayed in the Tomb of Athena was from the perspective of an earth-bound viewer, the Lagoon Nebula should have been in Sagittarius, not Scorpio.
**This could be accounted for by drift through time. The map was made millennia ago, by now the angle of view could have changed significantly.
*Since Lee and Cmdr. Adama both recognized the Lagoon Nebula, and the nebula appears the same as it does from Earth, the Colonies must be located on a line that passes through Sol and the Lagoon Nebula. This would place the Colonies - and Kobol - in the Cygnus Arm of the galaxy.
*Between Sharon's Heavy Raider that's been returned to the fleet in this episode and the Heavy Raider from [[Scattered]] and [[Valley of Darkness]], the fleet may have up to two captured Heavy Raiders by this point. However, the one that crashed into the starboard flight pod may have been too damaged to be salvageable.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''On "Earth":''
*:Cmdr. Adama: I thought we were in the Tomb of Athena.
*:Starbuck: I think that was just the lobby.

== Official Statements ==

In the podcast for this program, Moore and Eick commented on their attempt to have a more colorful turn of phrase in the dialogue on the Raptor from Chief Tyrol and Adama. Tyrol's original line, in his frustration on reading a map was, "Topography's for pussies, anyway." Likewise, Adama's comment about President Adar to Bill was originally "...Adar was a prick." Both lines were changed at the behest of the studio's standards and practices unit.

* From [http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/article.php?Article=2363 Hollywood North Report's interview] with [[Edward James Olmos]]:

: '''Robert Falconer''': One watches the series with the sense that [[William Adama]] is either an Atheist, or a man who is very private about his religious beliefs, which is interesting considering he’s part of a society whose cultural iconography seems innately tied to its [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|religion]]. Has the discovery of the [[Tomb of Athena]] changed his mind about the existence of [[Earth]], or his religious beliefs, if any?

: '''Edward James Olmos''': To answer the first part of the question, I think the beliefs Adama held were spiritual, and that he believed in the spiritual nature of humankind, but he was never a religious person, per se. He studied religions, but it wasn’t his thing, which is part of why the whole idea of Earth merely seemed like mythology or folklore to him.

: As to events altering him as an individual…a lot has changed there. The biggest change Adama went through spiritually and emotionally was his own death. And when you come back from a death experience, where you’re “clinically dead” and your body stops functioning and then all of a sudden you’re brought back, at that moment you’re gone from this understanding and reality…not just lingering there, but gone.

: Now nobody really knows what happens during those moments, but that disembodiment, where you’re just looking at everything going on as though watching a movie, is a profoundly altering experience by all accounts. And I think that experience has changed Adama the most.

: The second life-altering experience for him was the discovery of the Tomb of Athena. One moment he’s standing in the tomb, the next he’s standing “outside” on open land for reasons not fully understood at this point.

: I think those have been the most startling moments for Adama – those and discovering first-hand the new strengths and powers of the Cylons. When [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon (Boomer)]] – who I loved like a member of my own family – is lying in the morgue and I ask her, “Why?”…then later I discover the [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|other copy of Sharon]] on the surface of [[Kobol]] while I’m trying to reunite the family and [[The Fleet (RDM)|the fleet]], and she whispers in my ear, “And you ask me ‘why?’”…I realize the full implications of what we’re dealing with and I say to [[Lee Adama|Lee]] later, “They’re much stronger than we are.”

: And so all these things cause everything to change for Adama.

== Guest stars ==
[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1489668/ Leah Cairns] ([[Margaret Edmonson|Racetrack]]) [http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar] ([[Meier]]) [[Richard Hatch]] ([[Tom Zarek]]) [http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] (Dr. [[Cottle]])

{{Template:Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)|Home, Part II]]
[[Category: A to Z|Home, Part II]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Jeff Woolnough]]

Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I/Archive 1

2006-03-04T15:00:31Z

Xenophon10k:

Since, according to IMDB, Dean Stockwell has been credited with the role of Brother Cavell (not Cavill) ... should this page be modified? Apparently, one more cylon has been identified.

:Not sure. All the ep guide says is that Cavell is a Humano-Cylon priest. IS it possible that the spoiler is wrong and he's really just a religious leader (possibly replacing Elosha) who is promoting a Human-Cylon peace? --Ltcrashdown 22:19, 5 February 2006 (EST)

Found some pics - Spoiler Warning - http://pics.livejournal.com/ravenclawdrew/gallery/0000wa1h - [[User:Lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 12:30, 11 February, 2006

::Yeah I saw those too; it's what I based the info about Baltar running for President on (look really hard).--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 20:40, 10 February 2006 (EST)

I am starting to think these spoilers were to throw us off the track...

Corrected a number of spelling mistakes - [[user:lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 3rd March, 2006

Note to everyone: I tend to make a lot of spelling mistakes because I'm hurrying, and worrying about spelling makes it harder for me to concentrate and focus on the information, and slows me down alot; I usually try to proofread my stuff when I'm "done" with an episode (after most of the notes and stuff around done) but I still tend to leave a typo here or there. I appreciate the spelling help. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 22:55, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Merovingian, don't worry, the quality article makes "up" for it ;) i do the same thing as well when it comes to writing up an article - [[user:lordmutt|Lordmutt]] 3rd March, 2006

:Yeah I usually only worry about spelling around Sundays, by which time we're more or less done. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)

::I think this is the right approach. We obviously want the capsule summaries sooner rather than later. And we don't criticise authors' typos as English may not be their native tongue and in any event if we waited for perfection we'd still be on the miniseries. [[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 08:14, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Does anyone know the music playing the the background from the first few scenes of this episode? --[[User:PioneerCreative|PioneerCreative]] 23:33, 3 March 2006 (CST)

How many Raptors are lost in the misjump into the mountain? One or two? I only thought it was on when I watched the episode and edited the summary to reflect this, but it seems '''everybody''' else seems to think it was a pair. Starbuck did say two names, but I interpreted those to be the pilot and ECO of a single Raptor. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 01:29, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:Helo says they have 17 Raptors left. They already lost Racetrack's. They then say two names, and Starbuck says "we lost Raptore six twelve"; Now, this sounds confusing, but I don't think she said "Raptor 612"; I think she said "Raptors 6, 12" out of 20. Plus she did say two names; in addition, it wasn't just pilots but also marines, so one name wouldn't make as much sense. Although a little fuzzy, this still fits the "19-17=2" thing, instead of us jumping to believe that another Raptor got lost in a completely undocumented event. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 01:36, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::I remember hearing Helo say they had seventeen left after (I thought) a single one had been lost in the mountain and thinking nineteen was an odd starting number, having missed the earlier reference to the entire complement being twenty. If the starting force did indeed number twenty, it seems clear two Raptors were indeed lost in the final jump and I was mistaken. I will point out, however, that Starbuck would be much less likely to know the names of marines lost on board a ship, while it's almost a given she would know who the flight crew were. -[[User:CWD|CWD]] 02:01, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:::Helo actually says, "Wait a minute, we lost ''another'' Raptor. I'm only reading 17 ''out there''." His DRADIS screen doesn't display the Raptor they are in - that behavior was shown clearly in Scattered. Galactica's DRADIS was completely empty when they were seperated from the fleet, it didn't show Galactica itself as a single contact. So, clearly, Helo is talking about there being 17 other Raptors, in addition to the one he, Starbuck, and Sharon are in. In addition, Starbuck clearly says Raptor, not Raptors, and it is extremely unlikely that she would verbally separate a list of two numbers with an implied comma rather than the word 'and'. Not to mention, Raptors are commonly referred to by their 3-digit flight number. So only two Raptors were lost - Racetrack's miscalculated jump, and Raptor 612, which jumped into the mountain. Eighteen landed safely on Caprica. --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 09:00, 4 March 2006 (CST)

BTW: in case anyone was wondering later; in the podcast, RDM confirms that by "jumped into the mountain" he doesn't mean "they jumped close to it and thus crashed", he means, exactly like a ''Star Trek'' transporter accident, that they materialized from the Jump "in solid rock" like a transporter accident. Cool. (It's what I assumed too).--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 02:39, 4 March 2006 (CST)