Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Crossroads, Part I/Archive 1

2007-03-20T14:39:31Z

Whalepelt:

==Promo Pics==
Are [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/gallery/000a9064 here]. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:54, 27 February 2007 (CST)
: Tried to go there, but I get the following: Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /drewcypher/gallery/000a9064 on this server. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 08:09, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
::NBC cracked down on websites publishing the highres press photos.. They are still here: http://galacticastation.com/episodes/s3guide/318.htm --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:45, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

== Predictions ==

I was too busy drooling over my favorite [[Number Three|Suicide Girl]] to spend much time in front of the ol' crystal ball this week, but I got in a little bit of quality future-gazing at the last minute.
*[[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Beau]] locks the Battlestar Wiki, causing widespread panic throughout the Fleet! Without the ability to edit, how are our remaining 41,000 citizens supposed to comment on the shocking accuracy of their beloved seer's predictions? Riots! Fire! Premarital sex! And that's all just the teaser! In the end, however, they will make due and will remember that editing a wiki isn't everything. :)
*Back in February, my crystal ball told me that the trial of Baltar would begin. Obviously, the ball had a little too much [[New Caprican loco weed|Fleet wheat]] and tossed me a prediction for this episode instead. Yep, blame it on others, that's me. The Admiral would be so disappointed.
*We've all seen Caprica and Tigh exchanging bruises in the preview for this episode. This will be the only Cylon-on-human violence we see in the entire episode, and probably in the rest of the season.
*Baltar publically reveals during his trial that Roslin's cancer was cured by Hera's blood and that Hera is half-Cylon. The Fleet goes nuts. Baltar also reveals the plot to steal the Presidency and how it was covered up after the election. I've got a feeling he'll also reveal some shady goings-on during the year on New Caprica that we haven't seen.
*As the trial goes on, Tigh and Zarek are in charge of the military and civilian branches of the Fleet, respectively. They've never been fans of each other and now they're going to lock horns like never before.
*At the end of the episode, the Fleet jumps to a new system. Something sparks a huge shouting match between Zarek and Tigh, during which Gaeta detects... something. I'm not sure what it is, but it's the last marker on the road to Earth. Unfortunately, the Cylons are already there. After reorganizing in the wake of boxing an entire model, the Cylon expeditionary fleet has actually gotten ahead of the Colonials in just a few jumps. Baltar's trial is interrupted by this event and the episode ends on a cliffhanger.
After nearly half a season without them, the Cylons return in a big way this episode. While I'd personally like Baltar's trial to remain as human as possible, I'm afraid you can't have a season finale without the Cylons making a grand appearance and leaving everything hanging in the balance. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:57, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

:(*snif*) No mention of Galvatron? Is he being left to rust somewhere in space by something more evil than he: ''lawyers?'' --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:44, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
::Starscream, obviously. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:54, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
:::Sorry, guys. I thought Galvatron's presence would be obvious, keeping previous predictions in mind. He's in his new Pretender disguise: Romo Lampkin. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 23:58, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
:I'm looking forward to Cylon presence, we haven't seen any Cylons (save for Athena and Caprica-Six) since "Rapture". Or have we? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 14:49, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

==403 Error==
<s>I keep getting a 403 error when I try to look at the Crossroads Pt. 1 page.</s> <s>Never mind it's being cooperative now.</s> Or not. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 10:27, 17 March 2007 (CDT)

== When will this article be unlocked ? ==
I know the whole site has been unlocked, but this article appears to still be in lockdown mode. How long will we need to wait before permissions are restored?--[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 15:24, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
:[http://blog.battlestarwiki.org/?p=115 Thus spake Joe]:
:"Even after this, I expect the wiki to be slow and may even have to protect “Crossroads, Part I” from editing even after the site-wide lockdown."
:The day after an episode we've been getting hammered, and I suspect today is no exception. I expect that the traffic will die down enough such by tomorrow that Joe will unlock this page as well. If there's anything you feel needs to be added to the page while it is locked, you could add it here in the talk age (and copy & paste it later, or somebody else will), or create a subpage of your user page (or just a subsection of your user page) to store the thoughts/ideas/analysis/notes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:04, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
::Performance is still extremely sluggish. It works as this very moment, but it's up and down all the time. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:24, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
::Shane unlocked the article. I was honestly going to unlock it tomorrow morning, but I don't see how that would have really helped more not. At any rate, the article's unlocked. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:00, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

==Anders in Uniform==
Hey is Anders a pilot now cause they called him a nick name in the teaser --[[User:Snorkel378|Snorkel378]] 17:25, 19 March 2007 (CDT)Snorkel378
:No, they called him a [[nugget]], which is Colonial Fleet slang for a pilot trainee. But since you've mentioned that, does anyone have a screen grab of this for Anders' page?--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 23:56, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

== Act 1 item ==

Since it's not editable, I'm posting here....

# Back on Galactica, in CIC, Admiral Adama orders a scan for any tracking devices that may have been left on Fleet ships during the New Caprica siege. Roslin insists on asking the incarcerated Caprica-Six for information. When Tigh objects, Roslin snaps back, uncharacteristically.

# Lee Adama enters CIC near Roslin, who is collecting herself in the Weapons Control station. He notices a cup and decanter in CIC, ostensibly belonging to Col. Tigh and smells it. His expression suggests the presence of alcohol.

I rewatched this scene, because I got something different out of it. I think this should read:

# Back on Galactica, in CIC, Admiral Adama, Lee Adama, Col. Tigh, and President Rosline are discussing the baseships. Someone brings Roslin a decanter of tea? Admiral Adama orders a scan for any tracking devices that may have been left on Fleet ships during the New Caprica siege. Roslin insists on asking the incarcerated Caprica-Six for information. When Tigh objects, Roslin snaps back, uncharacteristically.

# Roslin walk to the Weapons Control station to collect herself. Lee Adama notices the cup belonging to Roslin; sniffs it and detects chamalla.

I think that Lee is taking Romo's lesson's to heart from the last episode and connecting Roslin's erratic behavior with her chamalla tea. -- [[User:Disputin|Disputin]] 17:31, 19 March 2007

:Agreed. At first I thought it was Tigh's too, but later it's explained as how he made the connection to Roslin still taking chamalla. That it's sweetened with sugar to mask the taste is explained by the oracle on New Caprica. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:57, 19 March 2007 (CDT)

::I haven't listened to the podcast, but I suspect that the ambiguity was intentional. You're supposed to think it's Tigh's, and then realize that it was Roslin's all along. Not that Tigh drinking on duty ought to be anything of a revelation anyway. The man likes the sauce. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:25, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
:::You can see Foster handing the can and cup to Roslin. It's not that obvious, and I missed it too at first, but it's clear that it's not Tigh's. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:32, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

==Opening==
Has anyone been able to find out why the opening title wasn't in the episode? --[[User:Moo|Moo]] 17:57, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
Also, if we really want a survivor count, we could use what that lawyer gave us as a number during the trial (even though it seems a bit too low). --[[User:Moo|Moo]] 18:02, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
:No, because that's too old. It's also somewhat conflicting (see my comment on Survivor Count talk). That number has to refer to the ''civilian'' population directly after the escape. But that discussion is better for the SC article.
:From the podcast transcript:
:"In case you're wondering, no we did not forget to put the pre-cap on that says, "The Cylons Were Created By Man," etc. etc. Truth is we were pressed for time on these last two and we asked for special dispensation to do away with the pre-cap, as we call it, and also with the main title. So-to give us-in order to give us more time to tell the story and really play this for all it's worth."
:So there you have it. That's what I suspected happened. It sounds like they were really crunched for time on these last two episodes (considering the opening chop running a few minutes long next week). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:31, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

Is the Eight at the opening Sharon Agathon or Boomer or another Eight? Kind of appears that Park has an expression more accustomed to Boomer on her face, as well as wearing her hair as Boomer. [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 06:26, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

==Refinery Ship==
Did anyone here Tivo the episode? In the scene on the refinery ship, I thought I saw Olmos in a cameo. He looked like he had the Gaff mustache from Blade Runner. Can anyone check this? --[[User:Whalepelt|Whalepelt]] 09:39, 20 March 2007 (CDT)

Actual

2007-03-01T07:59:18Z

Whalepelt:

'''Actual''' is a [[wireless]] term for the principal officer in command.

A real-world communications term signifying that the officer-in-charge (e.g. the commander of a military vessel, task force or unit) is speaking or required on-air.

Used to distinguish the commanding officer from other personnel who may use the communications channel, without recourse to code names or other means of identification. Frequently used when sensitive information needs to be communicated directly to the officer-in-charge.

[[William Adama]] is known as ''[[Galactica]] Actual.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
[[Category:Terminology (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Colonial wireless alphabet

2007-03-01T02:45:31Z

Whalepelt: /* Notes */ 'sierra' is not a specific location, but the Spanish word for 'mountain range''

The '''Colonial wireless alphabet''' is a means of communicating letters via words, thus permitting clarity when communicating spellings over [[wireless]]. This is similar to the [[Wikipedia:NATO phonetic alphabet|NATO phonetic alphabet]] used for [[Wikipedia:radio|radio]] communications.

The following is a list of words used in the CWA. At present, only nine have been [[canon]]ically identified.

{| cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" class="messagebox"
|-
! Letter !!align=left| Word !!align=left| Pronunciation
|-
|align=center|'''A'''||Alpha <ref name="bastille">'''Kara Thrace:''' Three assault teams, Alpha, Bravo, Constellation. ([[Bastille Day]])</ref> <ref name="scattered">'''Lee Adama:''' Sierra Alpha, we got a new bogey. ([[Scattered]])</ref> <ref name="rs2">'''William Adama:''' Order batteries alpha through echo to switch to salvo fire. ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]])</ref> || {{IPA|ˈæl.fə}}
|-
|align=center|'''B'''||Bravo <ref name="bastille" /> <ref name="hog">'''Freighter Pilot #1:''' Carrier constellation, jump complete on station, point deacon. Initiate search pattern delta. '''Freighter Pilot #2:''' Ore flight bravo, delta, wilco. '''Freighter Pilot #3:''' Ore flight nebula, delta initiated. ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])</ref> || {{IPA|ˈbɹɑ.voʊ}}
|-
|align=center|'''C'''||Constellation <ref name="bastille" /> <ref name="hog" /> <ref name="mini">'''Galen Tyrol:''' If the commander will take a closer look at the tail numbering... Nebula Seven Two Four Two Constellation. ([[Miniseries]])</ref> || {{IPA|ˌcɑn.stə.ˈleɪ.ʃən}}
|-
|align=center|'''D'''||Delta <ref name="hog" /> || {{IPA|ˈdɛl.tə}}
|-
|align=center|'''E'''||Echo <ref name="rs2" /> || {{IPA|ˈɛ.koʊ}}
|-
|align=center|'''N'''||Nebula <ref name="hog" /> <ref name="mini" /> || {{IPA|ˈnɛb.ju.lə}}
|-
|align=center|'''S'''||Sierra <ref name="scattered" /> || {{IPA|si.ˈɛɹˌɹə}}
|-
|align=center|'''T'''||Tango <ref name="finalcut">'''Grayshirt:''' Tango 1, Tango 1, Tango 1, weapons close 2-4-1 ([[Final Cut]])</ref> || {{IPA|tăng'gō}}
|-
|align=center|'''X'''||X-ray <ref name="exodus">'''Saul Tigh:''' Cally's in a group heading for map coordinates X-ray Seven ([[Exodus, Part I]])</ref> || {{IPA|ɛks.'ɹeɪ}}
|}

== Notes ==

*In the NATO phonetic alphabet, "Alpha" is spelled "Alfa", in consideration of Spanish orthography. Depending on how literally one interprets certain scenes, Spanish (or a language represented by Spanish) may be [[Language in the Twelve Colonies#Spanish Accent|spoken]] in the twelve colonies. Our use of the traditional English spelling here is somewhat arbitrary.
*"[[Wikipedia:Voice procedure|Wilco]]" is not a CWA letter code. It means "will comply", matching its real usage.
*"Colonial wireless alphabet" is a descriptive term, not a [[canon|canonical]] designation.
*While the Colonial wireless alphabet has some terms in common with the NATO phonetic alphabet, there are a few used by NATO which are unlikely to be used by Colonial forces. Specifically, India and Quebec (as they are locations on Earth), Romeo and Juliet (Shakespeare lived and wrote on Earth), and Yankee and Zulu (as they refer to specific peoples of Earth).

== Sources ==
<references />

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
[[Category:Terminology (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Senior Staff of Galactica

2007-03-01T02:24:55Z

Whalepelt: /* Commanding Officer */

=Present Senior Staff=
===CIC===
*Admiral [[William Adama]] - Commanding Officer
*Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] - [[Executive Officer]]
*Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]] - [[Tactical officer]], Senior Officer of the Watch
*Lieutenant [[Hoshi]] - [[Communications Officer]]
*Lieutenant [[Anastasia Dualla]]

===Air Wing===
*Major [[Lee Adama]] - CAG ([[CAG|Commander, Air Group]])
*Captain [[Kara Thrace]]
*Captain [[Karl Agathon]]
*Lieutenant [[Sharon Agathon]]

===Support===
*Major [[Cottle]] - [[Chief Medical Officer]]
*Captain Aaron Kelly - [[Landing Signal Officer]], Second Officer
*Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]] - Chief of the Deck
*Gunnery Sergeant [[Erin Mathias]] - Senior [[Marine]] NCO

=Position Histories=
===Commanding Officer===
* Commander William Adama ([[Miniseries]] to "[[Scattered]]") - Injured after assassination attempt
* Colonel Saul Tigh, Acting ("[[Scattered]]" to "[[The Farm]]") - Relinquishes command after Commander Adama returns to duty
* Admiral William Adama ("[[The Farm]]" to present) - Promoted to Admiral by President [[Roslin]] ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]")

===Executive Officer===
* Colonel Saul Tigh ([[Miniseries]] to "[[Scattered]]") - Assumes command when Commander Adama is injured during an assassination attempt
* Captain Aaron Kelly ("[[Scattered]]" to "[[The Farm]]") - Returns to regular duties when Commander Adama resumes command
* Colonel Saul Tigh ("[[The Farm]]" to "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]") - Relocates to [[New Caprica]]
* Captain Karl Agathon ("[[Occupation]]" to "[[Unfinished Business]]") - Demoted when Colonel Tigh resumes post
* Colonel Saul Tigh ("[[The Passage]]" to present)

===Tactical officer===
* Lieutenant Felix Gaeta ([[Miniseries]] to "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]") - Relocates to New Caprica
* Captain Karl Agathon ("[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]") - Promoted to XO
* Unknown ("[[Occupation]]" to "[[The Passage]]") - Gaeta resumes post
* Lieutenant Felix Gaeta ("[[The Passage]]" to present)

===Communications Officer===
* Petty Officer 2nd Class Anastasia Dualla ([[Miniseries]] to "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]") - Promoted to XO of [[Pegasus (RDM)|''Pegasus'']]
* Unknown ("[[Occupation]]" to "[[Exodus, Part II]]")
* Lieutenant Hoshi ("[[Collaborators]]" to present)

===Commander, Air Group===
* Major [[Jackson Spencer]] ([[Miniseries]]) - Killed in Action
* Captain Lee Adama ([[Miniseries]] to "[[The Captain's Hand]]") - Promoted to CO of ''Pegasus''
* Captain [[George Birch]] ("[[Home, Part I]]" to "[[Home, Part II]]") - Temporary replacement for Captain Adama
* Captain Kara Thrace ("[[The Captain's Hand]]" to "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]") - Relocates to New Caprica
* Captain [[Louanne Katraine]] ("[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" to "[[Collaborators]]") - Demoted when Major Adama resumes post. Posthumous and symbolic promotion ("[[The Passage]]")
* Major Lee Adama ("[[Torn]]" to present)

===Chief Medical Officer===
* Major Cottle ([[Miniseries]] to present, with the exception of his relocation to New Caprica)
* Unknown ("[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" to "[[Exodus, Part II]]")

===Chief of the Deck===
* Chief Petty Officer Galen Tyrol ("[[Miniseries]]" to "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]") - Replaced by ''Pegasus's'' Deck Chief
* Chief Petty Officer [[Peter Laird]] ("[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]" to "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]") - Laird reassigned to ''Pegasus''
* Chief Petty Officer Galen Tyrol ("[[Epiphanies]]" to "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]") - Relocates to New Caprica
* Unknown ("[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" to "[[Exodus, Part II]]") - Tyrol resumes post
* Chief Petty Officer Galen Tyrol ("[[Collaborators]]" to present)

Talk:Navigation in the Re-imagined Series/Archive 1

2007-03-01T02:14:41Z

Whalepelt:

This article comprises the topics on navigation from a past larger article version of [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]], broken out for later expansion and page size considerations. The Reaction Control System article and parts of the FTL article are also included. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:13, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

There may be a significant error in the section on distances. The 30 minute communications delay between Adar and Roslin is most likely a total round trip delay -- 15 minutes each way, not 30. This would mean that all distances, times, and speeds derived from this number should be halved. --[[User:Girckin|Girckin]] 21:22, 7 November 2006 (CST)
:When Roslin later speaks to 'Jack' over the wireless, there is no such delay whatsoever. Billy may have meant the time it takes to get Roslin's speech from the plane to the President's eyes, or some delay in that process. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:07, 2 January 2007 (CST)

== Cleanup ==

I've tagged this for clean-up, it is a mess, for example it has self references, assumptions and original research, which are not encyclopaedic. [[User:MatthewFenton|MatthewFenton]] 15:44, 30 December 2006 (CST)

:Keep in mind, before you make changes, that ''Battlestar Galactica'' is a work of fiction. The information in this encyclopedia is self-referencing sometimes because it is it's own universe. Much of the research involves [[BW:CJ#Derived content|derived content]], which is allowable if it is based on information provided by official information in the show. Be careful not to apply the original research processes os Wikipedia here; they do not fully apply. Please note what items you consider original research so all can review them and determine if the items are derived content or ''unsourced original research'', also known as [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]], which is not allowable here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:53, 30 December 2006 (CST)
::"We know that Battlestar Galactica's universe sticks to the same speed of light constant as real-world Earth (and the universe, of course): 186,282 miles per second." - Who is we? Is we me and the wiki, if so how do I know, how does we know? - Basically you should never use the word "we" here -- Self-referencing isn't just writing down text, an example of self-referencing would be an episode page.
:::"Given the velocities involved, extremely high accelerations must be used to attain them in reasonable (useable [''sic'']) time frames involved for in-system transportation. Such G forces would kill any humans involved unless some means of dampening them were employed. Given that the technology to perform "space-folding" FTL Jumps is also available, the technology to manipulate gravity would lie in the same area." - space-folding, when has space-folding been mentioned in the series?
::::Just two things that immediately jump out at me. This page reads like an essay to me at least. [[User:MatthewFenton|MatthewFenton]] 17:34, 1 January 2007 (CST)

:::I agree, Matthew. We can neutralize the writing to make it leas like an essay. If you don't get to it, I'll make the changes. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:37, 1 January 2007 (CST)

:::: About space-folding: While it hasn't been stated on screen, I recall an interview with Moore and/or Eick, where they said that they wanted to actually show the spacefolding effect in more detail, but couldn't get it to look good. So at the end they settled for the current effect. Or it might even be in "33" or "Miniseries" podcast. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:39, 2 January 2007 (CST)

:::::It was from the miniseries DVD commentary, I believe. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:00, 2 January 2007 (CST)

I've just deleted the entire "What happened in Scattered" section, as it was [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]]. [[User:Whalepelt|Whalepelt]] 20:14, 28 February 2007 (CST)

Navigation in the Re-imagined Series

2007-03-01T02:12:04Z

Whalepelt: Deleted What happened in "Scattered"? section: Fanwanking

{{RDM science series}}
In the Re-imagined Series, the principles of spaceflight are taken more serious, in that all ships have a logical a process to move in all three axes of movement, and travel at reasonable speeds with methods that don't necessarily duplicate the fantasy flight principles seen in space fantasy, such as ''Star Wars''.

==Reaction Control Systems==

In addition to their [[Propulsion in the Re-imagined Series#Sublight propulsion|sublight engines]] used for interplanetary travel within a solar system, all ships have a centralized way to move the ship to port or starboard, and to yaw and rotate the ship. This requires the use of an RCS, a reaction control system<ref>In the movie, ''Apollo 13'', the Apollo command/service module's reaction control jets are violently activating to control the spacecraft after the famous oxygen tank explosion, which creates an uncontrolled jet for which the RCS tries to compensate.</ref>.

The reaction control system is designed to provide a spacecraft with guidance and steering. It has two main functions:

* Delivering small amounts of thrust in any desired direction or combination of directions
* Providing torque to allow control of rotation (pitch, yaw, and roll).

Reaction control systems are typically used for:

* Attitude control during entry into an atmosphere until such time as conventional aerodynamic surfaces can be used
* Station keeping in orbit
* Close maneuvering and/or docking
* Orientation control (pointing the nose of the vehicle).

All Colonial vessels utilize RCS for maneuvering and station keeping, although the scale of the systems varies widely.

* [[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]], [[Raptor]]s and all smaller craft use "cold" RCS systems, most likely utilizing either an inert gas or possibly a high specific-impulse [[Wikipedia:Hypergolic fuel|hypergolic fuel]] mixture
* Very large vessels such as [[battlestar]]s use strategically-mounted sets of very large fuel-burning thrusters, relying on the brute force of such systems to overcome inertia during maneuvers.

Like many other technologies, Cylon attitude control for small craft like [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]] is similar or even identical to the Colonials ([[Scar]]).

[[Basestar (RDM)|Basestars]] don't appear to have ''any'' RCS features. This may be an inherent design, as its Raiders and missile systems can be deployed in a 360-degree arc--that is, the basestar can deploy its offensive elements from any direction of the ship.

While basestars have no visible RCS, orientation can be achieved through other means. For examples, reaction wheels use a spinning mass on a spacecraft axis to control attitude. By spinning the reaction wheel in one direction, torque is generated and the spacecraft will rotate in the opposite direction, in accordance with Newton's laws of motion. This system is used on real space platforms, such as the Hubble Space Telescope. However, such systems generate relatively small amounts of torque and they tend to be used in situations where precise orientation takes priority over the need to change orientation rapidly.

Basestars however, have a sublight propulsion system in addition to FTL drives. Basestars can be seen approaching the [[algae planet]] in the episode "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]". This capability can also be inferred from episodes like "[[The Captain's Hand]]" where a basestar is said to be retreating. Its nature however is unknown, as like with the RCS system, no engines are visible on the vessels.

==Distances and speeds in the Miniseries==

* '''''Galactica'' was approximately 335,540,340 miles from one of the Colonies, ostensibly [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], at the start of the [[Miniseries]].'''

To reach this number, clues are taken from [[Billy Keikeya]], on ''[[Colonial Heavy 798]]'', enroute to the battlestar for its decommissioning ceremony. Keikeya tells [[Laura Roslin]] that he had sent a copy of her ceremony speech to President [[Richard Adar|Adar]] for review, but warns that there is a time delay of 30 minutes between ''Galactica'' and Adar's actual location, which is [[Epiphanies|confirmed]] as Caprica City, the seat of the Colonial [[Government]] <ref name="jack">President Adar's office on Caprica is confirmed in the second Season episode, "[[Epiphanies]]". Reinforcing this information, Roslin speaks by [[wireless]] to "[[Jack]]", a fellow secretary or government official. Jack tells Roslin of the devastation near his location and Adar's speculated whereabouts and actions. Given that wireless transmission ranges in real-time conversation would limit Roslin to be able to speak only with Caprica (the nearest colony), Jack must be on Caprica, and likely in Caprica City to give him any ability to discuss the president's whereabouts.</ref>.

The speed of light is 186,282 miles per second. If President Adar sent a [[wireless]] message from Caprica to ''Galactica'' in an attempt to correct Roslin's speech, how long would it take the message to get there? Keikeya gives this answer: 30 minutes. This makes it possible to determine the distance using the equation: ''d = s(t)'' (or, ''distance=speed x time'')

::(3 x 10^8 m/s) ''(the speed of light)'' x 1800 s ''(30 minutes * 60 seconds/minute)'' = 5.4 x 10^11 meters ''or'' '''335, 500, 000 miles'''

Simplified, the wireless message travels over 335.5 million miles in 30 minutes to ''Galactica''. This is approximately 3.5 astronomical units, or three times the distance between Earth and our sun.

* '''''Colonial Heavy 798'' is traveling at a sublight speed of over 61,000,000 miles per hour to get to ''Galactica'' for the decommissioning ceremony.'''

Right after Billy Keikeya's conversation with Laura Roslin on her speech, the captain of ''Colonial Heavy 798'' speaks on the public address intercom of the [[Intersun|starliner]], telling the passengers how long their trip to ''Galactica'' will take: 5.5 hours. Assuming that the starliner has just left the neighboring space of Caprica and has reached its cruising speed, and given that we know ''Galactica's'' distance from Caprica, we can determine ''Colonial Heavy 798's'' cruising speed with the same formula as above, now adjusted to calculate speed:

:5.4 x 10^11 meters ''(the distance in meters)'' / 19800 ''(5.5 hours x 3600 seconds/hour)'' =
:2.7 x 10^7 meters/sec, ''or'' '''61, 000, 000 MPH'''

While ''Colonial Heavy 798'' is moving very fast across space at 61,000,000 miles per hour on its [[sublight]] engines, this is only approximately 11 percent of the speed of light, so passenger liners do well in getting from place to place, or colony to colony. To give a real-world comparison, ''Colonial Heavy 798'' could fly from our sun to Earth in about 90 minutes. The light from the sun takes only 8 minutes to arrive on the Earth's surface.

Given the velocities involved, extremely high accelerations must be used to attain them in reasonable (usable) time frames involved for in-system transportation. Such G forces would kill any humans involved unless some means of dampening them were employed. Given that the technology to perform "space-folding"<ref>This nature of the jump technology is confirmed in the Miniseries podcast</ref> FTL jumps is also available, the technology to manipulate gravity would lie in the same area.

* '''''Colonial Heavy 798'' and it's passengers would ''lose'' about 1 minute and 19 seconds during their trip to Caprica (relative to the time observed on Caprica), if they had completed their trip as planned, due to [[Wikipedia:Time dilation|time dilation]].'''
:T = T0 / sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2)
::*T0 = 5.5 hours. (as observed by ''Colonial Heavy 798'')
::*d = 335,540,340 miles.
::*v = d/T (as observed by Caprica)
::*c = 670,616,624.4 mph
::*'''T = 5.52 hours. (1:19 longer observed on Caprica)'''

Of course, this assumes that ''Colonial Heavy 798'' took the same path to Caprica that its transmission would take. This isn't likely, for various reasons, so the distance is probably off a little.

==Alternate calculations for distances and speeds in the Miniseries==

This is an alternative to the above which assumes a thirty light minute distance.
A time lag <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lag_time|title =time lag defintion on wikipedia}}</ref> or delay , in the case of a communication signal is both ways. A thirty minute time lag in
communication implies that the signal would take fifteen minutes to travel between the two creating a total lag of thirty minutes. In short: It takes thirty minutes for person one to send a message and get a reply
back. This would alter the calculations made to the following.

-''Galactica's'' distance from Caprica would be: 167,500,000 miles

(3 x 10^8 m/s) (the speed of light) x 1800 s (15 minutes * 60 seconds/minute) = 2.7 x 10^11 meters or 167,500,000 miles

-The speed of ''Colonial Heavy 798'' would be 305057.07 mph

2.7x 10^11 meters (the distance in meters) / 19800 (5.5 hours x 3600 seconds/hour) =
13,636,363.64 meters/sec, or 305057.07 mph

-This makes the same assumptions as to the route of ''Colonial Heavy 798'' as the initial proposal.

==FTL jump calculations==

Based on deduction from information gleaned in "[[Scattered]]", a set of jump coordinates used to execute an FTL jump instructs the Jump drive to fold space along a vector of three dimensions:

*Elevation
*Rotation
*Distance

Here, the dimension of distance would represent more than just a straight line, plotted through three-dimensional space but the amount of space curvature that the jump drive would have to fold.

A possible algorithm for jump calculations would therefore necessitate first and foremost the determination of the exact location of the ship, relative to its intended point of arrival after the jump. This is done by identifying, fixing and triangulating several stars.<ref name="tigh">This much is explained by Colonel Tigh to his wife Ellen in "Scattered".</ref>

Next, the ship's position relative to the intended point of arrival would be [[Wikipedia:Point plotting|plotted]] on a three-dimensional [[Wikipedia:Cartesian coordinate system|Cartesian coordinate system]], using the ship as its [[Wikipedia:Origin (mathematics)|point of origin]], i.e. (0/0/0).

Then, the positions of any known stellar bodies and other obstacles would have to be plotted on that coordinate system as well, in order to establish where to jump and where ''not'' to jump.

Finally, the point of arrival would likewise be plotted. The hard part in making a single jump over long distances, like to [[Ragnar Anchorage|Ragnar]] in the Miniseries, would therefore lie not so much in getting the jump drive to fold space correctly, as in correctly figuring out where possible obstacles, such as a sun or a black hole, are located and then adjusting the direction of the jump accordingly, so as to land the ship in a clear volume of space.

==Triangulating the Colonies' "Actual Location" ==

[[Image:Lagoonnebula.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Lagoon Nebula]]
In "[[Home, Part II]]", the [[Wikipedia:Lagoon Nebula|Lagoon Nebula]] appears in a holographic map in the constellation of Scorpio<ref>In the show, the nebula is placed in the wrong constellation. On Earth, the nebula actually appears in the constellation Sagittarius. The production team has acknowledged this as an error.</ref> in the [[Tomb of Athena]].

''Galactica's'' location and the rough location of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol can be deduced with simple logic:
[[Image:Locations in BSG galaxy.jpg|thumb|left|150px|Possible locations]]
The nebula is shown from the same vantage point as it would appear to an observer on Earth, yet the characters are able to recognize it. This suggests that the Colonies are on a line of sight "behind" Earth's solar system. Otherwise, the nebula would appear in a different shape and size as it is not a symmetrical object.

If one were to follow a straight line from the Lagoon Nebula to Earth, continuing the line through space would place ''Galactica'', and likely the Colonies, somewhere in the [[Wikipedia:Cygnus Arm|Cygnus Arm]] of the Milky Way galaxy.

To calculate the approximate distance between the Colonies and Earth, using the map to the left, one must first get the distance between the Lagoon Nebula and Earth, 4,100 light-years. One must then determine the distance between the point labeled 'Earth' and the point labeled 'Lagoon Nebula.' Then, one must use this scale and measure the distance between the Colonies and Earth. Then convert it to light years. The approximate distance using this method is 10,250 light-years.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Technology (RDM)]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
[[Category:Terminology (RDM)]]

Talk:Military Ranks (RDM)/Archive3

2007-02-28T05:18:10Z

Whalepelt: /* USAF? */

{{archive-header
| archivenumber = 01
| number = 1
| items = {{archive-item|01|Specialist Cally}} {{archive-item|01|Adama ≠ Fleet Admrial}} {{archive-item|01|How Many Admirals}} {{archive-item|01|Insignia}} {{archive-item|01|Tyrol & Hadrian}} {{archive-item|01|"Gunny"}} {{archive-item|01|Second Chart}} {{archive-item|01| Back to Officer Ranks...}} {{archive-item|01|Piping}} {{archive-item|01|Colorization|end=Y}}
|}}

__TOC__

==Abbreviations==
Here is the list of abbreviations I wrote for the ranks here. The enlisted ranks for Marines are still a little rough though, the "all caps" ranks are in the US Army style, others use lower case, eg Master Sergeant: MSG, MSgt.

Officer 
O-11 Fleet Admiral No abbrev., FAdm could work 
O-10 Admiral Adm 
O-9 Vice Admiral VAdm 
O-8 Rear Admiral RAdm 
O-7 Commander Cdr 
O-6 Colonel Col 
O-5 Major Maj 
O-4 Captain Capt 
O-3 Lieutenant Lt 
O-2 Lieutenant Junior Grade LtJG 
O-1 Ensign Ens 

Enlisted 
E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer MCPO 
E-8 Senior Chief Petty Officer SCPO 
E-7 Chief Petty Officer CPO 
E-6 Petty Officer 1st Class PO1 
E-5 Petty Officer 2nd Class PO2 
E-4 Petty Officer 3rd Class PO3 
E-3 Crewman CN (based on US Navy Seaman SN) 
E-2 Crewman Apprentice CA ("") 
E-1 Crewman Recruit CR ("") 

Marine 
E-9 Sergeant Major SGM 
E-8 Senior Master Sergeant/Master Sergeant SMSgt/MSG 
E-7 Master Sergeant/Sergeant 1st Class MSG/SFC 
E-6 Staff Sergeant SSG 
E-5 Sergeant SGT 
E-4 Corporal CPL 
E-3 Private 1st Class PFC 
E-2 Private 2nd Class PV2 
E-1 Private Recruit PVR 
--[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:33, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

: I went ahead and formatted your post, Talos, so that it was easier to read. I don't think I broke anything, did I? Anyway, I think the all-caps ranks look loud. I know that's kind of an artifact of the internet, but still... I'd rather just cap the first letter of a word from an abbreviation. Thus "PFC" is fine because each of those are the first letter of a word. On the other hand, I'd rather "Sgt." than "SGT". Also, "Cpt." and "Cmdr." are more intuitive to me, but I don't know if I made those up or ''where'' they came from. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:03, 15 September 2005 (EDT)
::Thanks for the formatting, that's how it was whem I typed it in notepad. I see how that works now. Like I said, the reason they are all caps is that it is based on the Army enlisted structure. I didn't go with the Marine Corps structure because it's missing the two ranks unique to the MC, Lance Corporal and Gunnery Sergeant. Here is a link about the US Military ranks: [http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/officers.html]. There is a link on top to the enlisted ranks. What is interesting is the way the US Navy O-6 rank's head is turned compared to the others. Also, Capt and Cdr are how the USN abbreviates Captain and Commander. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:00, 15 September 2005 (EDT)
:::I wanted to add something else, the CAPS are only used in forms, charts, etc. When written with the name it is normal case, so Hadrian,... Rank: SGT, but ...Sgt. Hadrian. I can't believe I forgot this. I must be slipping. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:42, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

==Rank Pins==
The admiral pin as pictured on this picture is wrong. If you look at the super-duper-high-res promo shots, there's [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000gds5y one of Adama]. His pin has two extra bars on the left side (towards the shoulder) and none towards the right. Perhaps the number of side bars denotes admiral grades. Maybe we should utilize those shots to have actual rank pics... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:38, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

:You should get permission to use "137th Gebirg"s rank chart. It's much better and more accurate: img503.imageshack.us/img503/8991/bsgranksnewv4et0.png
:The pins could also be cut out of that pic and used individually

:As for different Admiral ranks. In the extended Pegasus cut Adama refers to Cain as "Rear Admiral". At least he said that "she made Rear Admiral very quick" or something. But I guess that's her - and later his - rank at the point of the episode too. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:51, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
::What is werid is that the photos we have show a red color not a white for Admiral. Who's right? I go with the show anyday. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 10:56, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
::: You mean the trim of the uniform? A regulation Admiral's uniform like Cain's is white/gold. They didn't update Adama's unform, but I think it makes perfect sense to assume that they don't just happen to have spare Admiral's uniforms lying around. At least not in Adama's size. 
:::Btw, I think you can't see the other side of the pin because of the angle. When they were presented to him in the case they were symmetrical --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:01, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Aaah. Gotcha. Think you're right on that. Perspective... very tricky. Good eye, Serenity. Oh, and there's stuff about the piping on the [[Uniforms (RDM)]] page (though if THAT'S wrong, we should change it too). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:09, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::With what we've seen on the show, the piping info on the uniform page is correct. I also think we should ask Gebirg to use his rank images, t2hey are dead on. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:15, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::The uniform page is right. People just get confused because Adama is still wearing his commander uniform, while Lee got a new one. Look at pics of Adm. Cain and you'll see that hers is white/gold. Noticable when she steps off the Raptor for example. This [http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8991/bsgranksnewv4et0.png rank chart] is as accurate as it gets considering all available information --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:17, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
::::::I'm leery of using this rank/pin chart, because the creator admits to using unofficial fan-made props and insignia, so we don't know how much "fanon" is actually on that chart... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:46, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::::The conjectural designs are marked as such, and you don't have to use them if you cut it into smaller pieces. The rest is depicted as seen on screen from everything I can tell, and I've been paying attention to that lately --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:51, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

:With regards to Adama's rank pin, I'm inclined to agree with the notion that the "bars" on the side of the "Admiral" pins denote the level of Admiralty. Adama's has three distinct bars, clearly visible during his conversation with Tigh about half an hour into "Sacrifice". If that was the case, it'd be:

*1 bar - Rear Admiral (lower half)
*2 bars - Rear Admiral (upper half)
*3 bars - Vice Admiral
*4 bars - Admiral
*5 bars - Fleet Admiral

So that would make Adama a Vice Admiral? Thoughts? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 13:06, 17 September 2006 (CDT)

::Maybe. They could also add additional stuff on the gold plate. Like some additional silver. Anyways, I think he's a Rear Admiral: 
1.) see the [http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/8991/bsgranksnewv4et0.png rank chart]: two gold bars 
2.) in the Extended Cut of "Pegasus" Adama says about Cain "she made Rear Admiral very fast". While he could just have meant her first flag rank, that could also refer to her current rank. And they have indentical insignia. Interpretation here is highly subjective I guess. 
3.) ''Galactica'''s Dradis shows 2 stars next to ''Pegasus'' which some believe means a 2-star admiral. But I can't find the picture atm. Todays "two stars" could be the same as the two bars on the pins
--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:24, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Well, I just went to the Season 3 promo pics and Adama's insignia does show what looks like three bent vertical bars on each side. This is a pic of the pin. [http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/8607/adaadmpintn7.jpg Adama Rank Pin]
:::This could prove interesting if Cain was a two star Admiral like the Dradis screenshot implies, since Roslin would have promoted Adama above Cain. I'm looking for that Dradis pic right now. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:39, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
::::I think what you see as the inner bar there is just the silver plate behind the diamond that's actually ''above'' the gold plate with two bars. In-universe wise I think they only made one insignia and gave Adama the same one as Cain. I still wonder why Billy went to jeweler instead of just giving him Cain's pins. Or maybe he lied because that would have been somewhat morbid ;) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:45, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::If Roslin '''did''' promote Adama to Vice Admiral, that would explain why they had to go to a jeweler- using Cain's Rear Admirla pins as a reference to get a set of Vice Admiral pins made? Besides, in "Sacrifice", and the above pic of Adama's pin, the "bars" look to be seperated by distinct colour, as opposed to the first part being a silver plate? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:04, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
::::::For me it looks like the bars are seperated by small indentations, which would create darker shadows in bad lighting. I also think Adama's and Cain's insignia look the same. But if you have any clear pics to the contrary... --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:15, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::::Okay, just went over the final scene of Res Ship pt II, where Roslin gives Adama his new rank pins, and they do indeed appear to have a silver plate, with a larger gold plate behind it. So, Serenity, it would appear that I'm wrong and you're right, as a gold plate with two "bars" separated by a small indentation- along with the smaller silver plate- would give the appearance of three distinct "bars" under certain lighting. I can't get screenshots at the moment, but will post some later tonight if anyone wants confirmation- but I move that Adama's rank be clarified as Rear Admiral, upper. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 07:08, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
::::::::Ok, I'll go ahead and do the change and also give some reasons for the definition (2 bars = 2 stars on Dradis, comment in Extended Pegasus cut, Adama and Cain with same insignia.) Could you have a look at my rank pin proposal below? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:18, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

:::::Bingo, found the dradis pic. Hmm, if there are only two bars, and two stars on the screen.... --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:47, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
[[Image:GalPegDradis.JPG|thumb|right|Galactica/Pegasus Dradis screens.]]
::::::Well...today a two-star Admiral is a Rear Admiral UH. That would also fit with Adama's "Rear Admiral" comment (see point 2). Maybe wait for some other opinions before editing anything --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:00, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::::http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j81/steel_viper/BSG/promopin.jpg
:::::::I know the angle on this shot is funky (and I keep going back to it because it's so high-res), but I agree that the "third" vertical bar appears to actually be the silver part of the Commander insignia, with the outer two being the actual "gold" bars (presumably distinguishing the degree of "admiralness"). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:04, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
::::::::The silver plate is already there on the Commander pin. Basically the Admiral insignia are Commander pins on a gold plate of variable size. I don' t know if having 4 or 5 bars on each side is practical though. So maybe there is some additional bling for the highest Admirals --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:09, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

As detailed below something needs to be done about the rank pins depicted. They are completely wrong. To be honest, I don't see how someone can object to conjectural designs, given that the ones used now are also conjectural and even the ones shown on TV are sometimes entirely wrong (see below). 
Another possibility would be to make some screencaptures from the show. I could point you towards some good scenes to get caps of Admiral or Major for example. But that's probably more work for a worse result than using such artwork. 
If there is really such concern about conjectural designs, we can only use the ones clearly established on the show, by cutting "137th Gebirg"'s chart apart. I did so with one pin to demonstrate what I mean and uploaded it to my own webspace for now: [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v25/8-4-7-2/BSG/BSGRankExample.jpg Captain's inignia]. Before including them in the main article I'd ask for his permission of course 
Opinions?

Errors in rank pins:
*Admiral has two gold "bars" with a silver plate between that and the diamond
*Commander's silver plate is not just on the top half
*Colonel doesn't have any trimming on the diamond's upper half
*Major actually looks like the Captain pin depicted here
*Captain only has two chevrons
*The PO insignia is "PO 1st class" (seen on Sgt. Hadrian). "PO 2nd class" is missing completely
*The thingy inside the diamond of "specialist" is far larger
--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:06, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

:I agree with you Serenity- that rank chart, cut apart as per your example, is probably the best way forward. They seem to be the most accurate example of the rank pins we've found without taking screengrabs (which, you've noted, isn't really the best way to go about it- I'll refer you all to our recent discussion regarding Adama's Admiral pins :P ) The remind me a lot of Steve Marriot's Star Trek rank graphics (Tango Fleet pbem).

Hell, if "137th Gebirg" agrees (and no-one has any major objections to using conjectural designs), we could even ask him to throw together some pics for the other Admiralty ranks? And could this be a good basis for a [[BW:OC]] question? "Is Adama a Rear-Admiral?" or something? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:02, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

:Good news everyone! I got his permission and already updated the page. This is only a first draft. I'll do some more cosmetic formatting, explinations and of course the crediting.
:I might also upload new pictures because some of the cutouts are off by a few pixels.
:Unfortunately I broke the table in the process. It's shown at the bottom and not under "insignia" /o\
:Plzfix! :) I'm no expert with tables. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:10, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

::Awesome! Looks sharp! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:14, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Pics with bright lines at the bottom have been replaced. Looks a bit better now. I tried centering the ranks on the pictures but that didn't work despite using "align=center" on both. Maybe someone who's better at tables wants to try, but it's not really important --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:51, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

Just one little thing... I'm watching Res Ship pt2 as I type, and I've noticed that the rank pins we see close up (everything except Ensign and Major) have what appears to be a yellow enamel backing much like the green enamel on the NCO ranks. Also, the "chevrons" on the junior ranks appear silver on screen (this could, of course, be lighting). Does anyone have contact with 137th Gebirg? And does anyone think this warrants a re-doing of the existing images to incorporate the yellow sections? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 12:13, 15 November 2006 (CST)

== General update of the page ==

When we have come to a consensus about Adama's rank, the page need to be updated. Right now it lists Adama as Commander. 
Footnote 2 could be replaced with Adama's "Rear Admiral" comment. While he didn't state her current rank with 100% certainty it's an indication. Or do an additional footnote about it. 
Footnote 3 which now gives some arguments about his Commander rank could then include reasons for fixing his Admiral rank at "Rear Admiral" or "Vice Admiral" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:10, 17 September 2006 (CDT)

And I've come to realize, that it needs huge overhaul: 
1.) Not only Adama's rank needs to be updated, but also Lee's. Dualla as well I guess. She's now an LT 
2.) Is it really necessary to have a comparison with Air Force and Marines too? IMO modern Navy is enough. The Marines don't play a huge role on the show 
3.) The enlisted ranks are wrong. They go Recruit -> Deckand -> Specialist. No "apprentice" there 
4.) [[Prosna]] is listed as "specialist" on his site, but here as "apprentice/deckhand". I think specialist is correct 
5.) The rank chart doesn't even list "Petty Officer, 2nd class" despite it being displayed prominently with Dualla 

All in all, the article is almost more about equating BSG ranks with real life US military ranks than documenting the ranks within the BSG universe. Some of that can be retained, but maybe it should be dialed back a bit.

For now I cleaned up the rank comparisons and updated and changed some example ranks. I left out Admiral Adama's rank as per ongoing discussion above --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:20, 17 September 2006 (CDT)
:Any time you list ranks of living characters you put yourself at risk of having obsolete information. Since there is still a lot of potential for ranks to shift around a lot, perhaps we could try to target dead or unused characters for the examples. Or, perhaps as an alternative there could be some sort of reminder on the pages of all characters used as examples here that they are on this page, so that when their rank is updated on their character article the editor can be reminded to propagate the change to this page as well. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:50, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
::Yeah, I'm aware of that and I'll change the page if and when new promotions come. I still left Dualla as PO2, but indicated that this it was her rank in season 1 and 2, since she's the only example of that rank. I put Adama at Rear Admiral now and gave the reasons for it. That was a bit harder since it' s debatable. Though there were errors in it that were apparent in season 1 already. Like listing Sharon as full LT. But the character examples are really the least problem of the article, even if a focused a lot on it here. The rank pin pictures need to be updated. Look a bit further above

::Btw, shouldn't the older entries here be archived? The page is getting rather long (>32kb) and bloated --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:04, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

:::Sounds like you're on it. The rear admiral (with justification) sounds good. I think it was noteworthy enough that she made that rank at her young age. To have gotten promoted above that would likely have been noteworthy (and noted in further dialogue). As for the rank pics, I think everybody would be happy if you could manage to get gebirg's permission to hack his beautiful work to pieces to be placed into the article. As for the archive... done. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:21, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

== Ensign? ==

All this discussion of rank pins has me looking through all my BSG stuff now... and I noticed something. It doesn't look like Ensign Davis wears any kind of pin on her collar ([[Hand of God]]). Anyone think otherwise? 

PS: Can anyone help me out with regards to screencapping from DVD's? All I can do at the moment is cap from poor-quality avi/mpeg files :( --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:24, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
:For DVD capping I use [http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ VLC]. It works fine (it kicks out files in png format, I think). My biggest gripe about it is a lack of "frame by frame", since the way that VLC reads the data renders the concept of "frames" meaningless, apparently (or there's some other technical reason why it doesn't do it). Hopefully our screencap gurus might weigh in (Talos, FordSierra, etc). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:29, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

Either she doesn't wear one or it can't be seen from the angle. I don't think the prop departement even made Ensign pins. Some nuggets in "Scar" are called Ensigns but they wear LT pins.
A comment by Bradley Thompson in the Official Communiques doesn't list the Ensign rank either. ("the sketches I've seen don't yet carry the ensign rank designator")
Interestingly, he lists Lt.Col. and that one doesn't show up in RDM's blog. But that entry is over one year old and shouldn't be considered the absolute authority. Ideas of the writers might have changed now --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:39, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

== Gold Bars ==

Yes, it's me again :) Just a thought- if the Commander rank is the equivalent to Rear Admiral (lower), and the Admiral ranks have gold bars on them surely the Cdr rank pin should have a single gold bar?

Or, perhaps, Commander is in fact equivalent to Captain? This would move the other ranks down the list, meaning Ensign would be perhaps a probationary rank? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 13:26, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
:Well, yeah. I/we argued that RA is a two-star Admiral, but there isn't really a one-star Admiral. Unless CF also uses that Upper Half/Lower Half nonsense, and Adama went straight to UH.
:But I think it's just best to not equate BSG ''excactly'' with the US Navy. Those comparisons serve as a rough analogy, but they shouldn't be taken too seriously IMHO --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:39, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
::I could see Commander being a RALH or Commodore equivalent. Of course, RDM was in the Navy and took a lot of stuff from that (snipes for example) and put it into BSG. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:06, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
:::NROTC, I believe. (He mentions it in one of the podcasts.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:20, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
::::He actually wanted to join the Marines, but the USMC technically belongs to the Navy. See [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/04/#a000525 this] blog entry --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:32, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::That's what I was talking about. Speaking as an current Army ROTC cadet, he was pretty much in the Navy. :) --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:37, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
::::::Well even after my Army ROTC experience (I think I may have left something about that on your talk page), I wouldn't really say I was "in" the Army... but I know what you mean. RDM did spend some time on a frigate (USS W.S. Sims), though it's hard to tell when it's military stuff coming from RDM vs. Bradley & Thompson or the military technical advisor, etc. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:49, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
:Or if we stick with Adama and Cain as Rear Admirals (which we should for now), then maybe Commander used to be a one-star rank, but the Colonial military doesn't count it as full flag rank anymore for whatever reason (maybe a restructuring in the command structure of the BSGroups). So their flag officers start with two stars/bars. If there is even anything to the number of bars. That UH/LF business only exists since about 50 years ago. While the BSG rank structure is very similar to today's, I see no reason why there couldn't be slight changes. I know that Commander is listed as flag rank on the list, but that's really to line it up the with the US Navy ranks and the footnote explains that it could go either way --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:06, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

:::::: It's possible that when the Colonial Fleet was structuring the ranks, they decided that someone if command of such an enormous ship and crew should hold a higher rank. Or Its possible that Ensign is more like midshipman, and this would make the Commander rank equiv to a Navy Captain.

::::::: Regarding the Admirals' bars, everyone is assuming that the rank with the 4 bars is Rear Admiral, and that Cain was a Rear Admiral. But it seems to me that Cain seemed like the kind of person to self promote herself to full Admiral after the attack. I mean who would stop her, she is the highest serviving Colonial officer, so why not. Plus, why would Roslin promote Adama only to Rear Admiral, why not go all the way with him and promote to full (just in case they run into any more admirals ; ) ). In my opinion the rank Cain and Adama wear is probably full Admiral --[[User:Jrmurph|Jrmurph]] 12:14 EST 21 November 2006

I disagree- the piping on Cain's uniform (Red/White/Gold) suggests as much, since we know that White (or silver) denotes a junior rank of some kind- in this case, a Junior Flag Officer.

And, following "Hero", is it just me or does it seem that the rank of the Admiral is depicted by their uniform piping? Corman's pin appears to be identical to Cain and Adama's rank pin. Does this make sense? Here:

*Rear Admiral: Red/Gold/White (junior)
*Vice Admiral: Red/Gold/Red (senior)
*Admiral/Fleet Admiral: Gold braid

I know it's just conjecture, but I thought I'd put it out there. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:59, 21 November 2006 (CST)
:At least it's reasoned conjecture, and it's on the talk page. It looks like the only way we'll be getting good canon material will be via flashbacks (if they continue to develop "the Admirality"), but the fact that they bothered to do some shots of the Admirals for "Hero" gives hope that they may do so again in the future. And we'll be ready to pounce on it, dissect it, and put it on a neat little display slide whenever they do. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:14, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== Assumptions ==

*"It is assumed that [[Nagala|Nagala's]] given rank of Admiral ([[Miniseries]]) equates to that of Admiral in the US Navy. However, when he took personal command of the Colonial Fleet following the [[Cylon Attack]] ([[Miniseries]]), it is assumed he adopted the (war time) role of Fleet Admiral." This seems like an arbitrary assumption. Why do we assume this?

*"Helo states his rank as "Lieutenant, Junior Grade" in "33", but he consistantly wears the rank insignia of a full Lieutenant." This seems a little backwards—doesn't spoken dialogue take precedence over our assumptions of how the insignia work?

[[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 19:06, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

:This page, like the [[Cylon agent speculation]] page are assuming pages mostly based on visual evidence. There are no "defience" time periods of the ranks because of prop errors. For now, I am reverting your edits while we discuss this more. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:05, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

::Um, the promotions of Starbuck, Apollo, Adama, et. al are all established in dialogue. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:29, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
:I'll take one error in dialogue over 30+ errors in costuming any day of the week. And how the rank insignia work isnt an "assumption". It's fact. From the show alone you can deduce that "short chevron" means Lt.jg. And Bradley Thompson confirmed that in the BW:OC !
:The Nagala thing is more in the realm of fantasy and I didn't write that. It's save to remove I guess, but the Helo point make sense, and there is a long-term conflict that needs to be resolved some way.
:As for the promotions of the characters. Listing them under all or at least 2 ranks they held probably makes the most sense. Saying that Lee was a Major in "The Captain's Hand" would maybe a bit much. What about specifying the episode of the promotion just by number? Like "Episode 2x11" for "Resurrection Ship, I". That's usually shorter than writing out the episode and can be linkified too. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 04:14, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
::I am going to be reverting again, but if they are placed, it should be inside the ref tags. I still don't see a reason to list the episodes of when they were this rank. Rank changes through out the show. That's why under the credits we don't [[BW:SAC#Quote_of_the_Day|wiki link the rank]] with the character name because if there rank does change, without any dialog. Will this is not policy, it's clearly shown in the QOD guidelines that it does not happen. [[Season_1_%282004-05%29#Stars]], [[Season_2_%282005-06%29#Stars]], and [[Season_3_%282006-07%29#Stars]] all do not have the rank because it changes without notice. Putting any hard examples in on a rank page, even with "Miniseris to Season 2.5" (Which doesn't mean anything to UK viewers) doesn't mean the on-screen evidence ([[BW:CITE#Acceptable_Sources]]) That's why we ask questions to the cast and sometimes other people interview cast members as way to find out their rank. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 05:07, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Alright. It makes perfect sense to not mention the ranks all over the Wiki, but concentrate it in one place like a character page where it can be easily change. So we'll just go by last established rank here? I think having reference tags for every promotion clutters things up too much.
:::An exception I'd like to make is Dualla since she's the only example of a PO2.
:::But just to make it clear, it's alright to make arguments and deductions about ranks (like Helo or Sgt. Hadrian) as long as they are clearly marked as such? In the first paragraph it's said that some things are assumed and the footnoots are worded with qualifiers and in the conditional as well. They aren't just wild assumptions but list some evidence for the decisions. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:26, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Like the first paragraph says, this is just clearly examples assumputions. Charaecter pages are the best place to track rank and to list it. Who knows, it might be wrong because William Adama could be the Fleet Admiril. Going to wait on the revert but I think I said what I wanted to say. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 05:38, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::Despite the attempts for the writers and costumers to get the details right, folks, they '''are''' going to make inconsistencies. If I had my preference, we would stick to dialogue and command protocol to establish this, and not nitpick the details of each subrank. Keep in mind that this is a TV show, please. Try to glean the most likely information, but, because of the nature of the show, please realize we aren't going to get precise information. This may be a Official Communiques question for help in understanding, rather than excessive debate. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:05, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
::::::Yeah, excessive arguing shouldn't be the point, and I'm content to leave the page as it is concerning explanations for ranks. Most of the ranks are clearly established and more justifications aren't necessary. And yes, they make errors, but those errors can also be in dialogue. I don't see why one snippet of dialogue should get preference when he's clearly wearing "Lieutenant, Senior Grade" pips in ''all'' episodes. Just by logic a longer chevron means a higher rank, and Mr. Thompson confirmed the meaning of the Officer insignia already. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:26, 19 September 2006 (CDT)

OK, Helo aside, I still think we should retain the multiple examples per character. While it's true that Adama is currently an admiral, Lee is currently a commander, and Starbuck is currently a captain, they were a commander, captain, and lieutenant (respectively) throughout most of the show. Commander Adama throughout the first season and a half is a better example of a commander than, for instance, Garner (who was a commander for one episode) or Apollo (who was a commander for only a handful of episodes, and didn't even appear in all of them). Apollo was a captain almost continuously until "The Captain's Hand", while Starbuck has only been a Captain for half a season. By the same token, it's not worthwhile to mention Apollo's stints as Lieutenant and Major. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 15:08, 19 September 2006 (CDT)

== USAF? ==

As forewarning, this may not of the strictest relevance here. Watching "[[Black Market]]", the scene where Captain [[Lee Adama|Adama]] initially confronts Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] shows what would be called a "shadow box" by today's military behind Lee's shoulder on Tigh's wall. The shadow box contains what are plainly three rank insignia from today's [[Wikipedia:United States Air Force|US Air Force]]: [[Wikipedia:Airman#United States Air Force|Airman (E-2)]], [[Wikipedia:Senior Airman|Senior Airman (E-4)]], and [[Wikipedia:Staff_Sergeant#United_States|Staff Sergeant (E-5)]].

This presents us with ''two'' distinct problems. This first of which is the appearance of obviously modern, 21st century, military rank insignia from [[Earth]] on Tigh's wall.

The second being if the item on his wall was ''meant'' to be a shadow box. Shadow boxes are typically given when somebody separates from today's military as recognition of their accomplishments while on military service; in fact, several other unidentifiable (by myself) patches and accoutrements appear in the box. Furthermore, all three of those insignia are ''enlisted'' ranks, whereas Tigh is a high-ranking officer. Was Tigh prior enlisted, separated/retired, and later commissioned as an officer? Was ... [[Ellen Tigh|Ellen]] perhaps prior enlisted, and later separated or retired?

Lastly, as a disclaimer against my possible ignorance: "Black Market" is currently as far along the series as I have watched - and I have been meticulously avoiding spoilers on this wiki until I have caught up with the live airings. — '''[[User:pd_THOR|pd_THOR]]''' |''' [[User_talk:pd_THOR|=/\=]]''' 09:08, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:Tigh was prior enlisted (deck hand up through CPO) and was later "dragooned" into OCS and came back in as a Viper pilot. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:16, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

IIRC, there was a similar shadow box also showing USAF enlisted ranks in the background of one of the scenes in [[Scar]] where Kat and Kara argue. [[User:Whalepelt|Whalepelt]] 23:18, 27 February 2007 (CST)

==Commander equals more to USN Captain, my argument==
Of course the rank page is speculative and may not represent of how BSG ranks may equal to actual USN ranks.

This is just my argument based on what I've been watching on TV, to why I think the rank of Commander of BSG is more equal to the role of USN Captain than it is to rear admiral or commodore.

Case points (not in any particular order):

1. Adm Cain dies, Colonel Fisk is promoted to "Commander" of the Pegasus. 
2. Barry Garner is promoted to Commander of the Pegasus after Fisk, considering Garner was chief of engineering, I would assume he had a much lower rank than Colonel, maybe Captain? Adama and Tigh talk about how he was promoted from engineering, so he jumped ranks to become "Commander of the Pegasus" 
3. Lee Adama held the rank of Major and XO of the Pegasus, Garner dies, Lee Jumps over the rank of Colonel to become "Commander" of the Pegasus. 

The issue of rank never really came up before Pegasus showed up because the Galactica was the only major Military Vessle in the fleet, then Commander William Adama didn't have any military issues when it came to commanding a military fleet, Galactica was the only major military ship, with the rest of the fleet being Civilian.

When Pegasus showed up, then it opened a new can of worms with an Admiral.

The Rank of Colonel as mentioned by bsg wiki is highly speculative, there have been no cases where someone who held the rank of Colonel (aside from the tenure Colonel Tigh had when Adama was shot) to be a perminate Commanding officer of a ship. All "commanders" of major BSG ships have been either a Commander or an Admiral (see below)

From the working knowledge of what is being shown on BSG, mainly the Pegasus cases, the Rank of Commander is the Commanding officer of a ship, unless there happens to be an Adminral on the ship, then in that case the Admiral is the Commanding officer of the ship they are on AND the supreme commander of all Military ships. This may not happen in real life, but I'm talking about the BSG universe here.

The rank of Colonel has been shown to be more of a support/2nd in Command type of position similar to the rank of USN Commander (Colonel Tigh and Colonel Fisk are good examples as both have been XO's, Colonel tigh under both Commander and Admiral Adama and Colonel Fisk under Cain, then himself becoming a Commander after Adm Cain dies).

All of these cases leads me to believe and lean towards that the rank of Commander the show is more equal to the Rank of USN Captain, than it is equal to the rank of USN Rear Admiral. -[[User:Themoonrulez|Themoonrulez]] 14:51, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

:You are probably right, and the page does state that it can encompass the ''role'' Captain too (see the footnote!). The ambiguity of Colonel is also stated there.
:I didn't make those comparisons and I've found that they were taken way, way too seriously in the last version of the page. It's just meant to be a rough comparison and one can make arguments that go either way. Fact is that the BSG rank system isn't compatible perfectly with the US Navy one. And neither should it. But placing Adama as Captain messes up the chart because it moves everything else further in the Navy column down as well --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:50, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

::While I tend to agree with Themoonrulez, I'm going to play devil's advocate here and forward some more reasoning for the thought that '''Commander''' is a flag rank. As far as I'm aware, a USN carrier is often presided over by an Admiral- could it be, in the BSG universe, that the lead vessel in a Battlestar Group is commander by a Flag Officer (in this instance, a Commander), and the "XO" is the equivalent of USN Captain?
::If this is so, it also brings up an issue with Adama/Cain's rank insignia. If "Commander" ''is'' a Flag rank (and Colonel the equivalent of USN Captain), with the flag denoted by the silver diamond behind), then perhaps Cain ''was'' a Vice Admiral by the time of Pegasus? Just throwing up ideas for discussion. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 13:49, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Personally I just think that Colonial Fleet works slightly different than the US Navy (or some other navies with a similar structure).
:::As for Commander being a flag rank. Adama mentions a 'Captains List'; only in the BSG universe it's a 'Commanders List'. That's something from the old Royal Navy. There were normal Captains and 'Captains of the List'. A place on the Captains List was a garantueed promotion to flag rank (Admiral) as positions became free. The promotions were then awarded in order of seniority/position on the list.
:::It's possible that Adama commanded ''Galactica'' only because it was an old ship without an attached BS Group and usually Admirals are in charge. In the US Navy that's a bit different I think, with a Captain commanding the ship and the Admiral the whole Carrier Group --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:04, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
::::That's what I thought of immediately after posting. ''However'', there's something I think we've missed so far. Adama says to Roslin that he "gave up trying to get" the Admiral pins, which (to me, at least) shows there is a ''distinct'' difference between the rank of Commander and the Admiralty ranks. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:10, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::I just wrote a paragraph agreeing that Commander=USN Captain but it got lost in a hiccup when I tried to post. The major point I added is that the Commanders List is alive and well in the US military, its the list of soldiers and sailors eligible for promotion to the next officer rank, eg Captains list FY78, Lieutenant Commanders list FY05, Majors list FY45 (FY is fiscal year, how the government runs years). Also, in the old RN, the list was based on seniority and time in grade, and it still is in the US somewhat. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:39, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

:Ok, let's for a moment assume that Commander = Captain (and basically I agree.) That moves everyone below further down as well and destroys the neat 1:1 comparison that exists now. There would be some overlap or Ensign falls out of the chart (not really acceptable).
:As said, read the footnote with it. Maybe it could be reworded to move it more clearly to Captain while leaving it at RALH in the comparison? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:55, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

::I think the best thing to do is the re-write of the footnote. I did, a while back, suggest that perhaps Ensign was a probationary rank, much in the same fashion as Heinlen's "3rd Lieutenant" in ''Starship Troopers'', which might be a plausible explanation for Ensign "falling off" the table? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 15:19, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

I think Commander is more equivalent to Commodore. "Historically" speaking, most ships and units of less-than-battlestar-strength were/are probably commanded by Colonels, but when the first Battlestars were commissioned, they were such leviathan vessels of such rarity and power (there were twelve original battlestars, although this was later expanded) that Commanders were tasked to command them. In real-world naval history, commodores often held personal command of large and important ships and installations, so commanders (their analog in the BSG universe) would logically be posted to the leviathan battlestars when they were first launched. Tradition being what it is, this practice continued even as more and more battlestars were commissioned. Another alternative is that the "battlestar group" (which would include support ships and perhaps even the Viper and Raptor spacecraft embarked aboard the battlestar itself) is treated as a small squadron of ships which are collectively commanded by the Commander. Commodores often commanded small squadrons as well.

Also of interest is that Commander rank comes and goes along with command of a Battlestar. It's possible that, again as an analog to commodores in real life, "Commander" is not a full-fledged rank, but rather a temporary rank reflecting command position. (As Wikipedia reports about Royal Navy commodores: "Commodores could revert to the rank of Captain at the end of their posting (and Captains could be promoted directly to Rear-Admiral without ever having served as a Commodore)." If rumors about the Pegasus's destruction and Lee's reverting back to the rank of Major come true, this parallel will be more clearly established.)

Of course, the United States did away with commodores by making them all "Rear Admirals, Lower Half". Before this rank was invented, there was of course no "upper half" or "lower half", simply Rear Admiral (equivalent to today's RAUF), which again meshes nicely with Cain's (and now Adama's) rank. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 02:12, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

:Good points, all. But if Commander is analogous to the old-style Commodore, like you said, this raises some questions regarding the rank pins.
:As it stands, the rank pin of Commander is identical to that of Colonel, with the exception that it has a silver "diamond" behind the main diamond with the Colonial seal. Cain's/Adama's '''Admiral''' pin has both the gold diamond with the seal, and the silver diamond, but also has two distinct gold bars, which- as we have discussed in detail- likely represents the two stars seen on DRADIS (Pegasus) and the 'stars' mentioned by Lee Adama (Occuprice- I forget which episode :P ) SO! If the gold bars represent the stars of an Admiral, and (starting from the bottom of the rank table and moving upwards) Commander is the rank that doesn't fit in, it suggests one of two things:
:*Commander is in fact a distinct rank in the Colonial Fleet, immediately superior to the rank of Colonel and immediately inferior to the rank of a "one-bar" Admiral. In turn, this tells us that the BSG rank structure features more officer ranks than todays military- this is entirely plausible.
:*Commander is, like you said, a ''billet'', and not a standalone rank at all. The silver diamond behind the gold one merely symbolises the billet of Commander.
:I believe both scenarios are entirely possible. However, given that the rank pins from Lieutenant JG all the way up to Major follow a distinct progression, and that the vast majority of modern day rank insignia follow the same kind of progression, I believe that Commander is a distinct rank, not a billet. Maybe we should just accept that the Colonial military has more officer ranks than we're used to dealing with, and- like the footnote says- the rank of Commander does not neatly equate to Captain OR "Commodore"? Now, I know I've been saying that Cdr = Capt, but thinking about it now... the majority of us have been used to watching things like Star Trek, where the master of a vessel is, for the mst part, a Captain, and as such we've been comparing the military ranks in Galactica to these shows, which copy our own militaries rather neatly. And, to be fair, who can blame us when there are so many other paralells? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:33, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

::PS: That's a long winded way of my agreeing with Serenity. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:50, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Commander could easily be a full-fledged rank, and it's entirely possible that the Admiral ranks start with two-star Rear Admirals. If you look at the British military, the progression from captain on up is "commodore, rear admiral, vice admiral, admiral", and from colonel on up is "brigadier, major general, lieutenant general, general". Starting with two stars seems weird, but then again, so does this whole thing. Lee does refer to "admiral's stars" as if every admiral has more than one star, so... [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 16:17, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

::Sorry to drag this thread up again, but... I don't think it works that a BSG ''Colonel'' = USN/RN ''Captain'', as opposed to BSG ''Commander'' = USN/RN ''Captain''. As I remember it, RdM discussed that he didn't want to make Adama ''"Captain Adama,"'' so he kept the rank of ''Commander'' for Adama.
::To me it seems that BSG ranks of ''Major'' and ''Captain'' are both equivalant to the rank of ''Lieutenant Commander''. I think the major point for this is to look at the position of the CAG. I don't know what the rank for the CAG would be in the USN/RN, but considering that:
::: *Lee as a ''Captain'' and a ''Major'' as CAG.
::: *Jack Spencer from the MiniSeries was of ''Major'' rank when CAG.
::Hence it would seem that these two ranks are similar enough that they can be both be used a specific position.--[[User:Cohnee|Cohnee]] 08:37, 8 November 2006 (CST)

:::Mhhh, that's a very good idea and would clear up the confusion about "Commander = Admiral or Captain" for example. No reason why the table can't be broken up in the middle. It would also put the XO as real life Commander then --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:53, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:::I don't quite follow. First off, a real-life Colonel *is* equivalent to a Navy Captain, *not* a Navy Commander. Making Commander equivalent to Commodore (which the current table implicitly does) makes much more sense than making Colonel equivalent to Commander. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 20:28, 8 November 2006 (CST)
:::Incidentally, in real life, the CAG is a full Captain, equivalent in rank to the commander of the carrier. This is because the Carrier Air Wing is not part of the carrier's ship's company, but rather a separate embarked unit. In other words, pilots and support personnel are assigned to the air wing itself, not to the ship. It's quite similar to a situation where, for instance, a Marine unit is embarked aboard an amphibious ship—the Marine unit that is embarked has a CO who may be of equivalent or higher rank than the CO of the ship. As a consequence of this, the commander of the ship itself probably does not make tactical decisions about launching planes—that would be up to the Admiral commanding the carrier battle group, who has command over the carrier, the carrier's escort ships, and the air wing. (It goes without saying that the captain of a US aircraft carrier still holds authority over the embarked personnel—it is his ship, and his word is final.) BSG follows a slightly different model where each Battlestar has an air group permanently assigned to it so that the pilots and other support personnel assigned to the Battlestar itself and not its embarked air group. This places the CAG within the command structure—pilots, as well as maintenance personnel like Chief Tyrol, report to the CAG, while the CAG reports to the CO and XO. Of course, the BSG command structure is probably different in that Commander Adama (pre-Cylon Attack) wasn't merely the commander of the Galactica, but of the entire BSG-75 (Battlestar Group 75), comprising Galactica, her embarked planes, and her other support ships. This justifies not only the CAG reporting to Adama (since in the US Navy, the CAG reports to the commander of the Carrier Battle Group), but also the apparent equivalence between Commander and Commodore (since Commodores usually commanded small groups of ships, but not vast fleets). So it's probably more accurate to say that, in BSG, the commander of the Battlestar Group also holds personal command of the group's flagship (Galactica for BSG-75, Pegasus for BSG-62) as well as overall command over the air group and other support ships. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 20:48, 8 November 2006 (CST)

::::I think the major and captain BSG ranks should be essentially equavalant to naval lieutenant commander, even if major is obviously the superior rank. BSG Commander is obviously equivalant to a naval ship captain. Adama just commanded all the ships before because (as it was previously stated) those ships are civilian. Since Roslin promotes him to admiral so he command both battlestars, Commander is obviously not a flag rank. Just my thoughts.
::::--[[User:Jaguar|Jaguar]] 16:20, 9 December 2006 (CST)

== Idea for updated comparison list ==

I took a look at the TOS rank page and there is a very obvious solution to the problem. On that page there isn't a direct 1:1 comparison for each rank (which I don't think is really useful anyways, but good for aesthetic reason). Instead some are just stated as "N/A". That could work here too.

So we could move Commander out of the "flag officers" and on top of "commissioned officers". Merge RAUH and RALH into just Rear Admiral. And then pick one rank that doesn't have a direct comparison. Maybe keep Colonel as Commander because of the XO thing and put Major at "N/A" or something similar.

All in all, I think it's better to orient the list towards the BSG rank scheme and bend the American ranks around a bit, than making up things to twist the Colonial military to perfectly conform it to the US Navy. The comparison is only meant as a rough guideline after all --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:55, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

:Waaaaaaaaaait a second. Is it just me, or would the TOS list make perfect sense transposed straight over here? IE, Ensign = no equivalence (ensign has no rank pin that we know of), then everything is neat all the way up to BSG Colonel = USN Captain, BSG Commander = no equivalence, and then flag ranks? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 02:37, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

::There is an Ensign rank in BSG (Hand of God, Scar). They just haven't established a rank pin yet. That doesn't mesn there isn't one. In "Scar" they used Lt. pins. But the TOS list is a comparison to Airforce ranks for some reason. Here's it's Navy. That's why there isn't an Ensign there.
::And forget what I said above. Putting Commander at N/A probably makes the most sense as we established that they stand somewhere inbetween modern Captains and Admirals. That can then be mentioned in a footnote. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:26, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

:::I know there's an Ensign rank, only reason I said that was because of what the TOS rank chart did. Besides, Ensign = 2nd Lieutenant in the USAF, so if we did decide to have it = nothing, there wouldn't be a problem- it's already been done once. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:30, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

:::EDIT: okay, how's this (we can figure out Flag Officer ranks later --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:47, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

:::{| class="messagebox" style="width:100%" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" align="center"
|- class="infoboxheader"
| style="font-size:85%;" align="left" valign="middle" | '''Colonial Fleet Rankings'''
| style="font-size:85%;" align="left" valign="middle" | '''U.S. Navy Rankings'''
| style="font-size:85%;" align="left" valign="middle" | '''BSG Examples'''
|
|-
| Commander
| N/A
| [[Lee Adama]]
|-
| Colonel
| Captain
| [[Saul Tigh]]
|-
| Major
| Commander
| [[Cottle]]
|-
| Captain
| Lieutenant Commander
| [[Starbuck]]
|-
| Lieutenant
| Lieutenant
| [[Helo]]
|-
| Lieutenant JG
| Lieutenant JG
| [[Boomer]]
|-
| Ensign
| Ensign
| Ensign [[Davis]]
|}

I think we should mention somewhere (possibly in a footnote) a possible Commander/Commodore equivalence. Otherwise this is fine. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 15:24, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

Yeah looks fine. Commodore is already mentioned in the current footnote. But that needs to be reworded anyways --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:30, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
:That looks fine to me. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:41, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

== Impressive Page, 1 Nitpick about dense chart ==

I'm quite impressed with the level of detail and discussion here. The page looks sharp too; great work all involved.

The part that bothers me, and someone probably knows how to correct this, is that in the enlisted/NCO areas of the text chart, the Fleet and Marine ranks are uncomfortably bunched together. It needs separation. Can someone make a separate column within the chart so we can have Fleet ranks on the left, and Marine ones offset, to the center? That way we'd save the room used by writing, "marine" next to each of them, as well as clearly marking the distinction. Or does the Wiki software not enable that kind of table personalization to be done? - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 22:47, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:There used to be a seperate column for real life Marine ranks. But that just cluttered everything up. Marines aren't ''that'' important and adding them in own column would detract from the overall readability IMHO. Maybe it's possible to seperate the NCO and enlisted rank column into two columns each, so the Marine ranks start at the same place. But I don't think that an overall own column is needed or even desirable --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:05, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
::Yes, that's what I mean...just to get a bit of space between the words as now they run together. It would be easiest thing to do in Word or Powerpoint, but this is an html-based system with which I'm not as familiar. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 18:14, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
:::I'm not very knowledgable in table-editing, but I think I managed to do it. It's basically the same as HTML just with different operators. There is a help page on Wikipedia about it --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:54, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Nice. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 07:56, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

== Number ==

Shouldn't Commander be listed as O-7 and Rear Admiral as O-8? Not even getting into the debate over the officer/flag officer status of the Commander rank (although it could go either way (the Colonial forces could have seven officer ranks)), but why is it listed as N/A? It's clearly higher than Colonel, which is O-6. --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 21:05, 26 November 2006 (CST)
:The numbers correspond with the US ranks, not the BSG ranks. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:13, 27 November 2006 (CST)

== PO3 ==

I understand the note about Venner, since PO3 and Cpl are equivalent, but the page itself does quote RDM who says that there is no PO3 grade. How can the page be modified to show this? --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]]•[[User talk:Kevin W.|So say we all]] 18:27, 17 December 2006 (CST)

:Mhh, you're right. Though I don't consider that one blog entry as the very last word on it. Ideas might have changed a bit by now. Who knows.
:Anyways, the list incluces PO3 mainly for the sake of completion I guess. It does say that some aspects of the table are speculative and that was always ok. You could add a footnote, like done for all other annotations. Then the explination shows up under "references". --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:20, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Dirty Hands

2007-02-26T21:43:04Z

Whalepelt: /* Act 1 */

{{Episode Data
| title= Dirty Hands
| image= 3x16-DirtyHands-TyrolSelix.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 16
| guests=
| writer= [[Anne Cofell Saunders]] [[Jane Espenson]]
| story=
| director= [[Wayne Rose]]
| production= 316
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-02-25
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population=41,400
| prev=[[A Day in the Life]]
| next=[[Maelstrom]]
}}

== Overview ==

== Summary ==
===Teaser===

*A group of deckhands, with Chief [[Galen Tyrol]] at the head, are prepping [[Margaret Edmondson|Racetrack's]] [[Raptor]] for a mission.
*Tyrol reminds [[Anthony Figurski|Figurski]], [[Pollux]] and [[Sanchez]] not to leave as they have to work on additional engine refits. A number of deckhands, one literally missing a hand and using a prosthetic arm, are busy with their work. Complaints about fatigue are deflected by Tyrol.
*Viewers see [[tylium]] fuel, refined from its ore state into a gasoline-like liquified state, being pumped into the Raptor.
*[[Diana Seelix|Seelix]] is returning bags of cleaned laundry to Figurski, Pollux, and [[Redford]]. She's not too happy as, despite high marks on the written exam for [[Viper (RDM)|Viper pilot]] flight training, Seelix has been denied promotion because she was considered to have mission-essential duties and could not be transferred. Pollux is left surprised, believing that others don't want the "knuckledraggers" to rise in rank.
*Tyrol, who heard about the failed promotion from the [[CAG]], apologizes to Seelix. Figurski teases too much about Seelix's fate and her unglamorous laundry work, which causes Seelix to attack Figurski before Chief Tyrol breaks it up. Seelix goes back to laundry delivery, obviously depressed in spite of Tyrol's attempt to have her look at her work on the [[hangar deck]] as critical to the Fleet's safety.
*Racetrack and [[Skulls]], her [[ECO]], launch from the lift from the hangar deck to the port [[flight pod]]. They fly through the motley of civilian ships and begin plotting their course, passing the [[Space Park]], when a malfunction occurs in the reaction control jets and one of the main engines. The vehicle is out of control.
*Racetrack yells for Skulls to sit in the copilot seat and moments later, both eject from the wayward vehicle. The Raptor tumbles on a collision course with ''[[Colonial One]]'' at the same area of the ship where President [[Laura Roslin]] and [[Tory Foster]] are handling their daily business.

=== Act 1 ===
*Admiral [[William Adama]] is assisting President Roslin with moving her office area to another section of ''Colonial One'' while the damaged bulkhead of the ship is repaired. The presidential flagship suffered only a glancing blow from Racetrack's Raptor, but hit with sufficient force to cause a dozen injuries, including to Tory Foster. No one was killed, fortunately.
*When Roslin notes the cramped confines, Adama offers Roslin any of his beds on ''[[Galactica]]''. A moment of humorous silence hangs as Adama realizes the unintended double-meaning and Roslin smiles.
*The two leaders of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] discuss the cause of the Raptor's malfunction. So far, the investigation suggests a fuel contamination problem. Roslin finds the matter unsettling since, before, the refinery ship was always reliable and timely.
*The leaders discuss [[Xeno Fenner]], who has complained about numerous labor-related problems despite the overall significance of the overall survival of humanity. Adama is impatient with Fenner's effectiveness over the last two weeks and wants to get the Fleet back on its path to [[Earth]].
*Roslin, who [[Home, Part II|began the serious quest for Earth]], can't resist teasing Adama, a [[Home, Part I|skeptic about the legends of Earth]] despite his claims of [[Miniseries, Night 2|knowing where it was]]. Adama plays along with Roslin, asking "Have I ever doubted it?"
*Fenner meets with President Roslin and Admiral Adama. Fenner complains of exhaustion, very long shift hours and other problems that go unheeded throughout his operation by the senior staff. Adama reminds Fenner that, because of the backlog of fuel processing and distribution between the ships of the Fleet, they have fuel for maybe one or two [[FTL|jumps]]. Both leaders warn that safety is in danger and that fuel resupply is imperative.
*Fenner questions if intentionally causing a slowdown or other problems with the fuel processing would yield some results.
*When Fenner quotes a passage from an underground book written by [[Gaius Baltar]] to reinforce his case ("If you hear the people, you never have to fear the people") Roslin is incensed by the quote and has the [[marine]]s in the room arrest Fenner.
*Roslin explains to Adama that Baltar's lawyer had snuck out the book, called ''[[My Triumphs, My Mistakes]]'', which has been copied about the Fleet. Roslin and Adama discuss how it is causing class strife throughout the Fleet. A visibly angered Roslin, her voice quieting to almost a whisper in her usual manner when in such a state, says, "I am thinking of having a good old-fashioned book burning."
*In their quarters, the Tyrols are having a meal. [[Cally Tyrol]] adminishes her husband from eating too much, recalling their recovery from [[A Day In The Life|vacuum exposure]] and apparent diet requirements to aid in it.
*The two eventually discuss the recent labor problems. Cally, reciting passages from Baltar's book, notes how work throughout the Fleet is divided by class lines, which also happen to be related to how work was culturally based on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. Prosperous colonists from Caprica, Tauron and Virgon were mostly in administrative or professional jobs such as politicians and pilots, while colonists from places such as Gemenon, Sagittaron, and Aerelon, which were agrarian or otherwise raw-material sources, had primarily blue-collar populations. When Galen comments that [[Anastasia Dualla|Lieutenant Dualla]] was from Sagittaron, Cally answers that she was prompted only because of her [[Lee Adama|husband's Caprica status]].
*Chief Tyrol gets a call from Admiral Adama, who tells him of Fenner's arrest for "pissing off the President." Adama orders him to get to the refinery ship and get the fuel supply running. Cally recalls the old union on [[New Caprica]] and that, while the scenery has changed, the people who desired change in then-President Baltar's leadership were still around.
*Roslin visits Gaius Baltar with marine continent, intent on confiscating any further passages of his clandestine book. She lies to Baltar, telling him that the book was intercepted before it could be mass-produced, and that was dying to read the latest entries. Roslin objects to Baltar's portrayal as a "man of the people" in his book.
*She forces a strip search of Baltar before his [[Cylon-Related Hallucinations|virtual Six]] convinces him to give up the passages to save his dignity.
*Tyrol arrives to investigate the refinery ship's operation and meets with Cavett. Cavett remembers Tyrol's work as the union leader. Cavett shows him a large cavernous room with a single comparatively small pile of tylium in its center. When asked about the amount of tylium available, Cavett notes that the Fleet would be lucky to get out of this system.
*Cavett notes that the ship is as loud as an "A-bomb" when in full production, and as equally safe.
*The conditions are squalid at best, as many workers move the granular tylium through its conversion process from ore to precursor and fuel. The working conditions are less of the problem, as workers are tired and have very little time off. Work is going much too slowly, and Cavett reminds Tyrol of the harsh work schedules that have greatly reduced fuel production.
*The group enters a conveyor area, where many workers appear to be cleaning or making minor repairs. The refining process appears to have stopped. Despite Cavett's pleas, Tyrol asks him to stop up the process. A laborer named [[Milo]] tells Tyrol that the system won't work. When pressed as to the reason, Milo is silent.
*Tyrol looks around to find that several critical pressure relief seals are missing, making the machinery unusable. The workers have intentionally hidden the seals as a protest for Fenner's arrest and an attempt to get improved working conditions.
*Later, on ''Galactica'', Tyrol reports to Admiral Adama and Roslin on his initial investigations on the refinery ship. A search has not turned up the seals. Since the group did not harm him or have contaminated the existing fuel, he believes that the workers are buying time to get their pleas heard.
*He notes that some of the people on the refinery ship have been working almost continuously since the original [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack on the Colonies]] with no chance to transfer or take a break.
*Roslin acknowledges the hard work, but notes that work is equally hard on the algae processing, or munitions or waste processing teams. When Tyrol asks to cede to some labor demands to get things working again, Roslin objects, calling it extortion, and asks for the names of the leaders to put them under arrest, which Tyrol reluctantly notes Cavett. Roslin curtly dismisses Tyrol when he tries to continue his pleas.

===Act 2===
*Tyrol visits Fenner and Cavett. Cavett, who was incarcerated on New Caprica by the Cylons, is experiencing hallucinations and is injuring himself. Tyrol asks for the seals, to Fenner's anger.
*Tyrol yells at both to tell him where, when Fenner relents and tells the location of the seals.
*The seals are replaced. Milo asks to flip the switch. Tyrol asks Milo's age: 12. The production resumes. Tyrol looks around to see many very young faces; many of the refinery workers are children and adolescents.
*On ''Colonial One'', Tyrol explains that the parents are passing down their skills to their children, and that the children are thus automatically stuck in their parent's careers instead of choosing an own path for their future. Roslin understands the problem, and offers to gather a list of colonists with any relevant experience that can be used to supplement the workers on the refinery ship.
*A young man named [[Danny Noon]], pulled from [[Dogsville]], questions Tyrol on the hangar deck on why he is tasked to work on the refinery ship. As Figurski tells Tyrol of the young man's farming experience, Noon denies any actual experience, having worked for one summer for money for college before the Cylon attack on the Colonies. Before Tyrol can consider reassigning the man, Figurski warns that letting the young man go may cause more to deny their experience as well, setting back the conscription process. Tyrol does not interfere.
*As Tyrol walks away, he finds a copy of Baltar's underground manifesto. Turning the page, he notes one page entitled "The Emerging Aristocracy and the Emerging Underclass." He decides to go to Baltar.
*Interviewing Baltar (who now knows that his book has circulated), Tyrol tries to separate fact from fiction. Baltar (now possessing only a mattress on the floor, with no bed frame) explains that he is really born on a dairy farm outside of [[Cuffle's Breath Wash]] on Aerelon. When Tyrol questions further, particularly Baltar's posh accent, Baltar explains (as he begins to speak in his native Aerelon voice) that he began to mimic Caprican speech starting at 10 years old so that people would not believe he was from Aerelon, a "drab, ugly rock condemned to be the food basket for the twelve worlds." Baltar left Aerelon after his 18th birthday.
*When Tyrol indicates that the strife was left on the Colonies and begins to leave the [[brig]], Baltar disagrees, indicating that the social strife has followed the people, and that the aristocracy will continue to hold on to their power.

===Act 3===
*The fresh labor on the refinery ship is helping and tylium ore is again being refined, per Fenner. He notes that some problems in the process was where the contaminants were accumulating and that work is being done to clean up the process.
*A malfunction occurs on the refinery ship conveyor, but Fenner warns that the belt has to be repaired while running, else, shutting it down will seize the whole system. Worse, not fixing the problem soon could cause an explosive chain reaction with the ore stuck in the system.
*Tyrol tries to get the problem part, but can't reach it. Danny Noon manages to reach underneath to restore the belt to operation but suffers a piercing injury as he exits from under the belt.
*Watching this suffering becomes too much for Tyrol. He slowly walks over to the belt systems main power levers and pulls them, shutting down the entire fuel operation. He tells everyone that the plant is offline and that the workers are on strike.
*Several pilots, including [[Kara Thrace]], are trying to get a flight, but Pollux tells them that they are on strike, and that only vital missions are being serviced.
*Chief Tyrol is arrested in placed in ''Galactica's'' brig. Admiral Adama tells him that the Colonial Fleet shoots mutineers like Tyrol and the deckhands.

===Act 4===
*Tyrol tries to explain his side, but Adama warns that no one on this ship can disobey orders. To prove how far he will go, he makes a phone call.
*Adama orders Cally Tyrol to be taken to the starboard hangar deck. When the Chief asks why, Adama tells him he is taking her there to be shot as a mutineer. He then states that he will continue with the executions, starting with the rebellious deck crew, if he has to.
*Tyrol is terrified, but Adama continues to elaborate: Orders, no matter how one feels about them, must be adhered to. If even one person hesitates to fulfill an order or feels that orders are optional, everyone will perish, including Tyrol's [[Nicholas Tyrol|son]]. Adama tells him that this is not his desire, but that he would put ten Callys against the wall to be shot to ensure the survival of the Fleet.
*Tyrol resigns. Adama releases him and lets him speak to Cally, who mistakenly believes that Tyrol has won. Adama releases her. Adama releases the Chief as well, reminding him that he wanted to speak with the President on the labor issues.
*On ''Colonial One'', Tyrol and President Roslin talk over drinks about the cultural vocations that some colonists are locked into by birth, which Roslin understands but cannot see how to change. Tyrol suggests a plan where other colonists, including professional types who inhabit ''Colonial One,'' get their hands dirty with many tasks, allowing some sharing of low-level chores. For high-stress jobs, Tyrol recommends that crew rotations are recommended. Roslin agrees.
*Tyrol recommends a training program, but Roslin defers it and wants Tyrol's union to give some ground in collective bargaining. When Tyrol is confused about the mention of a union he believed long gone, Roslin explains the necessity of the union and his leadership to ensure that the Fleet doesn't tear itself apart.
*Later, back on the hangar deck, Chief Tyrol is announcing work assignments when Captain Thrace arrives to complain about a missing [[nugget]] who did not report for training. She asks for Diana Seelix, who is both visibly confused and excited. Tyrol, in on the ruse, presents Seelix with ensign pins, promoting her to the basic officer's rank needed to train as a pilot.
*Thrace continues to play the nasty drill officer and orders the smiling Seelix off to the pilots ready room. Thrace herself cracks a smile as Tyrol asks her to "be nice" to her new recruit.

===Bonus Scene===
*Chief Tyrol has finished sorting out a handful of children who were mistakenly picked in the pool of conscripts to aid on the refinery ship. He returns to his quarters to pick up some paperwork.
*Cally Tyrol notes that most of the conscripts are from poor colonies, and that the work involved actually doesn't involve any genuine skills. She noticed that no one from ''Colonial One'' was in the list of conscripts.
*Galen berates Cally for what he feels is yet another recitation from Gaius Baltar's book. He warns her that, if he pushes too hard with the Fleet's leadership, they may pull him off of the assignment of assigning conscripts, where someone like Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] may be ordered to manage, with more dire results for everyone.
*Cally tries to encourage her husband to continue fighting for the rights of the workers as he did as the union leader on [[New Caprica]]. As she continues to press for his support, he tells her that the New Caprica union is over and leaves without further discussion.

== Questions ==
* Will Baltar's book help his image among the working class of the [[the Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] in his upcoming trial?
* Is it possible that [[Tom Zarek]] somehow assisted Baltar in the writing and distribution of his book?
* Has [[the Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]'s [[tylium]] reserve been re-stocked at all since "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]"?
* Have these class differentiations amongst the colonies been problematic before the destruction of the Twelve Colonies?
* Besides occupations that are related to the "working class" and other professions such as news reporters, what other occupations exist within the fleet besides those positions found on ''Colonial One'' and ''Galactica''?
* Have the Colonials truly lost the Cylons or are the Cylons continuing on different plans?
* Why wasn't [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] mentioned along with [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] as another member of the "working class" that rose to be part of the Fleet leadership as he was born on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Aerelon|Aerelon]] and started his career as an enlisted man?
* Besides Baltar's testimony, is there any real solid evidence that Baltar was born on Aerelon?
* With the information provided by "[[Unfinished Business]]" and "[[A Day in the Life]]", have the attitude and admiration towards Admiral Adama changed significantly to the point that his crew feel more indifferent or resentful of him?
* Besides the six Colonies that were mentioned, how were the other colonies, such as Picon considered?

== Analysis ==
* Not having any real options for defending his actions during the Cylon occupation of New Caprica, Baltar has opted to use class warfare as a distraction from the real issues and to drum up support as a victim of "the aristocracy". His booklet appears to inspired by classic Marxist/Leninist rhetoric. Historically, such approaches to political change and power are most effective when conditions are unacceptable and dangerous for large numbers of workers.
* Adama's explanation and pending orders to execute Cally and the rest of the knuckledraggers to force Tyrol to call off the strike is reminiscent of the style of leadership found with Admiral Cain. However, once Tyrol relented and called off the strike, Adama immediately displayed his familiar style of leadership by informing Tyrol of his meeting with Roslin.
* This is the first time that an emergency cockpit ejection from a Raptor is shown during the series.
* Ever since her murder of Boomer and following detention and eventual release, Cally has displayed an attitude of disrespect towards the Fleet leadership, especially to Adama recently. Her recent demeanor and naive assumption that Adama would not do anything more than arrest the strikers may highlight a growing problem amongst the military workers that are beginning to dissent from the leadership.
* This episode, as well as "[[The Woman King]]" display an ongoing theme since Season 2 that focuses on how human beings are self-destructive by nature without any Cylon intervention. As was stated in "[[A Day In The Life]]", the Fleet hadn't encountered any Cylon forces for approximately 2 months. This state of complacency has allowed the typical in-fighting amongst the colonials to resume, especially with the depreciating state of quality of life amongst the ships in the fleet.

== Notes ==

* A number of main characters are not present at all during this episode: [[Lee Adama]], [[Sharon Agathon]], [[Karl Agathon]], [[Saul Tigh]], [[Felix Gaeta]], and [[Anastasia Dualla]].
* According to [[Bradley Thompson]], this episode was originally a different story titled "Our Enemies, Ourselves". When developing "[[The Woman King]]", it was felt that both episodes dealt with the same themes. As a result, "Dirty Hands" was created instead.
* The [[w:79th Academy Awards|79th Academy Awards]] were shown during the episode. The ratings should be taken ''lightly''.
* The prop department still hasn't produced any Ensign [[Military Ranks (RDM)|rank insignia]] yet. Like in "[[Scar]]", Lieutenant j.g. insignia are used instead.
* Cally is still dealing with the injuries she sustained in "[[A Day in the Life]]".
* One of the deckhands has lost an arm, but is using a prosthesis to work.
* [[Dogsville]] is still in use.
* Baltar reveals that he is allegedly from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Aerelon|Aerelon]]. He displays his native accent, traces of which he claimed to have heard in Sharon Valerii's voice in "[[Flesh and Bone]]".

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
Jane Espenson, in an interview with tvsquad.com, made the following remark: "The episode, co-written with Anne Cofell Saunders, is called 'Dirty Hands,' and as you might guess, it's a look at the people who do the dirty work in the fleet. Knuckle-dragging fun!" <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/12/06/jane-espenson-answers-your-battlestar-questions/|title=TV Squad: Jane Espenson answers your Battlestar questions|date=6 December 2006|accessdate=11 December 2006|last=McDuffee|first=Keith|format=|language=English}}</ref>

== Guest Stars ==
*[[David Patrick Green]] as [[Xeno Fenner]]

== External Links ==

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Jane Espenson]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Wayne Rose]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Dirty Hands/Archive 1

2007-02-26T05:23:02Z

Whalepelt:

== Episode Title Change? ==
The SciFi Schedule as ''Our Enemies, Ourselves'' as the episode after [[A Day in the Life]] on 2/25/07. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:48, 7 January 2007 (CST)
:''Our Enemies, Ourselves'' was the original title before it was changed. See the [[BW:OC]] page for explanation by Bradley --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 09:01, 20 February 2007 (CST)

== Locked Reason ==
Please read the blog [http://blog.battlestarwiki.org/2007/02/18/wiki-addicts/ here]. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:00, 18 February 2007 (CST)

== Predictions! ==

Sorry these are so late in the week. I came down with [[Lymphocytic_encephalitis | something]] pretty horrible and, for a few days, was barely able to sit up, much less contribute to a Wiki.
Anyway, I'm going to try to be a bit more serious with this one than I have in the last couple of weeks. I just don't have as much time to gaze into the crystal ball like I did between TEOJ and Rapture - not that that's a complaint in any way! As always, you can place your bets (in cubits; your Earth money is of no value to us) at [[User_talk:Slander | my]] or [[User_talk:BklynBruzer | BB's]] Talk pages.
*Somebody of middling importance is gonna die this episode. The crystal ball is telling me it'll be Seelix, but my gut tells me it'll be Gaeta. I'd rather it was Seelix, but I feel they've been setting up Gaeta to take a bullet this whole season. I desperately hope they don't kill off Cally. Nicki Clyne is cuteness ''incarnate''.
*Galen Tyrol bucks authority in a big way and ''doesn't'' get away with it, thus breaking the ''Battlestar'' trend of getting away with stuff because Bill Adama needs you.
*We find out why the Cylons have been so quiet: Boxing the Threes wasn't easy. The Threes didn't want to go and they caused a lot of damage on their way out. The entire Cylon expeditionary fleet (the Earth-bound fleet) is currently dead in space as a result, with no way to contact other Cylon ships. (They're out of range.)
*The Colonials find abandoned spaceship repair facilities constructed and then abandoned by the 13th Tribe. They begin the long, slow process of repairing the damage to their own ships using equipment that's been floating in space for thousands of years and thus isn't in the best of shape, nor is it 100% safe to use. The round-the-clock, hazardous labor required to repair, adapt, and then use the equipment is what leads to Tyrol's strike.
*Frustrated by his people's inability to repair their own base stars, Galvatron contacts the Colonial fleet, turning to his most hated enemies for help. The Colonials respond by sending the SuicideGirls in with nukes to wipe out the Cylons, but those pierced punkette pixie pilots pooch the plan and miss the Resurrection Ship.
*Hot Dog finally sees Cottle about his rash. Cottle berates him and issues him some of his most closely-guarded medical supplies: A box of rubbers.
Should be an intense episode, overall. Some of these predictions are more in line with rest-of-season possibilities than single episode speculation, but they're from my gut. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:56, 22 February 2007 (CST)

:I've been mulling over how the Fleet might get some more aid to fix what they have, short of yet another escaped battlestar or some other deus ex machina device. The idea of finding old Thirteenth Tribe stuff makes sense; unlike the Colonials, the 13th Tribe PLANNED to leave, it seems, and had taken lots of materials to help them do so. A portable shipdock? Maybe. Sounds fun, anyhow.

:On Gaeta: You're right; I thought it was Cally in this last episode, but was happily wrong. It's still up in the air. The problem with the lack of all Threes makes very good sense; the Cylons aren't good as individuals, and plucking the Threes away makes for a lot of disorientation. The last two "predictions" are on the mark, as usual. But wait--isn't the season 3 cliffhanger going to be a big battle between the insane intellects of Galvatron and Gaius Baltar and a new villain that knows both weaknesses in humanity and Cylon? What if the Colonials and Cylon get into a big fight above a planet that changes into a very perturbed [[w:Unicron|Unicron!?]] --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:10, 22 February 2007 (CST)

:I like the repair thing, Tigh's comment of "we'd need 3 months in dry dock just to fix the dents" got me thinking about repairing ''Galactica'', but I imagined some kind of agreement with the Cylons (the Colonials using Cylon repair facilities in return for some other favor). I don't think someone's gonna die this episode (reason see spoiler box), but if someone does die, it'll be a deckhand, which will be the cause for Tyrols strike.
{{spoiltext|RDM confirmed someone major will die in [[Maelstrom]], and two deaths in two episodes time seems a little over the top to me}}--[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:19, 22 February 2007 (CST)

== Doing Time==
One of these days they need to throw Edward James Olmos in jail. When they do that every major character will have been in jail at some point. [[User:Whalepelt|Whalepelt]] 23:23, 25 February 2007 (CST)

Talk:Main Page/Archive6

2007-01-14T23:36:48Z

Whalepelt: /* All images are gone... */

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| start = May 31st, 2006
| end = August 5th, 2006
| items = {{archive-item|02|Friends...}} {{archive-item|02|Did you know...}} {{archive-item|02|Region 4 Season 2 DVD new Slimline Set}} {{archive-item|02|1900x1200 Res}} {{archive-item|02|Proposal to Open Wiki to Unregistered Users}} {{archive-item|02|If there was...}} {{archive-item|02|Style Sheet Completed}} {{archive-item|02|Your Screen Resolution}} {{archive-item|02|Quotes}} {{archive-item|02|Link to chainki.org Battlestar Galactica pages}} {{archive-item|02|Season 3 Teaser}} {{archive-item|02|IE v. Firefox}} {{archive-item|02|Airdates}} {{archive-item|02|CSS with Images|end=Y}}
|}}

__TOC__

== Battlestar Wiki "referenced" ==
A "little bird" tipped me of to a [http://blog.sciam.com/index.php?title=doomsday_not_as_much_fun_as_you_d_think&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 Scientific American blog entry] that referenced Battlestar Wiki. It's kind of dangerous doing a direct link to wiki-content like that, but it's neat that we're being linked to. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:57, 7 August 2006 (CDT)
:For those curious, [[User:Gmusser]] is the author of the blog entry. (This can be deduced from the link and the author's name.) --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 23:28, 7 August 2006 (CDT)
::Question: Should we be annoyed that someone used BattlestarWiki material in their magazine like that, or does it not matter because they're things he contributed to, or what?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 23:35, 7 August 2006 (CDT)
:::It doesn't strike me as a bad thing. Of course, I didn't check to see if the very similar wording was originally contributed by him; I'd imagine it was, so it'd be all positive. To work in a nitpick, so far as I can tell, it's not in the magazine, just online in their blog. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 04:41, 8 August 2006 (CDT)

==External images not working amnymore==
See my user page. All external images are no just showing as links --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:54, 7 August 2006 (CDT)
:That sounds like it's probably a Mediawiki setting that can be toggled. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:02, 7 August 2006 (CDT)
::Yeah, it happened to me, as well; I tend to assume the same thing about the cause. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 23:13, 7 August 2006 (CDT)
:::Ive also noticed some odd things like the <nowki> tags and stuff arnt working properly, take a look at the box on the edit page where you can click the special characters and also the summaries on the recent edits. Has the wiki software been updated in the last few days to maybe have caused these little glitches? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 16:40, 10 August 2006 (CDT)
::::I attempted to invoke {{tl|tl}} once or twice in edit summaries if that's what you mean, but I was forgetting that templates are not supposed to work in edit summaries. (It would do unfortunate things to upload summaries, for one thing.) --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 17:29, 10 August 2006 (CDT)
:::::No this is something thats happened very recently. Edit this page and look at the bottom of the page. The code to add to your edits now is wrapped with <nowiki><nowiki></nowiki></nowiki> when it shoudl'nt parse that only the actual code in between. Its hard to explain but i think its related to the images not showing up Something has changed in the last week to make this all happen. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 02:56, 11 August 2006 (CDT)
::::::I'll look into this... it's probably a setting issue since I upgraded the Wiki software to MediaWiki 1.7.1. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:55, 11 August 2006 (CDT)
:::::::Something else ive noticed. When you search for an article that has no page yet. Eg http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Wooyay it automaticly takes you to the edit page http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Wooyay&action=edit --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 05:30, 13 August 2006 (CDT)
::::::::Actually, that was a change I made... I was trying to see something. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:31, 13 August 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::I should have mentioned this but I noticed that if I hit ENTER key intead of clicking SEARCH, it gives the same behavior that Mercifull reports. (Maybe I shouldn't do that??).--[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:05, 13 August 2006 (CDT)

== QotD ==

The quote is in need of an update. Would anybody be willing to do the honors? --[[User:Kevin W.|Kevin W.]] 16:33, 13 August 2006 (CDT)
:Often I have to do a Crtl-F5 in IE on one of my computers to get it to refresh the QotD. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:15, 13 August 2006 (CDT)
::Depends on where you live also. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:18, 13 August 2006 (CDT)

The quote of the day today (October 7, 2006) is incorrect. It should be as follows:

Tyrol: You know, we need to figure out whose side we're on.
Tigh: Which side are we on. We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that.
-- [[User:123home123|123home123]]

== First person... ==

To get http://media.battlestarwiki.org/ active on their computer gets a [[Wikipedia:Cookie|cookie]]. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 04:36, 14 August 2006 (CDT)
:I win. Got it working 04:04, 18 August 2006 (CDT) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 04:04, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
::I'm sorry, but I stole your cookie. Now I need some milk... :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:33, 20 August 2006 (CDT)

== New Season 3 Teaser ==

During the SG-1 200th episode. Did someone capture this?! There was some shots that were not in the ... well original one. :-D --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:23, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
:I will DVR the 1:00AM repeat. Thanks for the heads ups. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:30, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
::it's a SciFi and Monk night. :-) (almost got the subdomains working with joe cept I have to do some reading so rewriting rules) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:36, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
::This is the special. Not the episode it self, but I would get the show also. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:43, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
:::For some unexplicable reason, I didn't check the guide, like I always do on friday, when I got home or I would have been watching it (the special). I always DVR the 'Gates. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:54, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
::::Did a quick writeup for the one on SG1-200 [[User:Gougef/Season 3 Teaser#Teaser From SG1-200 | here]].--[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:54, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
:::::I Tivo'ed it on the first wave, some shots of Gatea, more Tigh (He's the "narrator") a great shot of Boomer (After entering the prison), Six. It was great, I haven't watched it again since I recorded it, but I will in a while (obviousley). --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 21:48, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

Is this it? http://www.lucylawless.info/battlestar-galactica/episodetrailers.html --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 19:12, 19 August 2006 (CDT)
:No, that is the Eureka teaser, which some of shots are in the this new one. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:34, 19 August 2006 (CDT)
::They air different trailers for different shows? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 12:12, 27 August 2006 (CDT)
:::I may have missed it, but I don't think they have aired the same exact teaser twice? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:17, 27 August 2006 (CDT)

== "Media" Uploading ==

Now active. You can head over the the [http://media.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/ Media Wiki], sign up (with your same name), and start uploading. You won't be able to link the images to any articles pages just yet, but you can tag the image and upload them correctly for now. :) Enjoy! :) (Anyone have any ideas for a Main Page design?) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:21, 20 August 2006 (CDT)
: I was thinking of a smaller version of the Main Page design we have now. That would be fine by me. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:02, 20 August 2006 (CDT)

== Technical ==

Typo under Sister Projects. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 09:30, 22 August 2006 (CDT)
:I would have fixed it but I (being DUH!) couldn't figure out how to get to the page. When I click on the icon button beside "Sister" it stays on the home page. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:25, 22 August 2006 (CDT)
::doh. my fault. I'll change it in the [[BW:MAIN]] project so it won't happen again :-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:30, 22 August 2006 (CDT)
:::Fix is up on main page. Battlestar Wiki: 1 Confusing Navigation: 0. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:10, 22 August 2006 (CDT)

== Search Box ==

Merc and others have been suggestion to me that we move the search box after the "navigation" box. Just wanted to get some option before I made such a move. Let me know. :-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:18, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
:I'd lean towards "movin' on up". It's on my screen at 1280x1024, but I can imagine it'd easily fall off smaller resolutions, and it's pretty useful for getting around (especially once you're used to shortcuts, etc.) I'm really enjoying the bsgMonoBook, by the way! I'm less enthused about the color scheme than I am the fact that we've got a choice now. If you don't like it, you can always run your own skin (now). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:22, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
::Support as per discussion on gtalk. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 13:03, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
:::Good idea. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:00, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
::::Yeah, move it up, please. Just had the same idea. --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 16:26, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
:::::k. It will likly happen later tonight when go gets to do a nother update of the files. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:27, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
::::::Done. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:42, 25 August 2006 (CDT)

== Styles: Font style in edit box ==

I'm used to the fixed-width typeface in the editing box. Is this a new characteristic of the three skin options? I like the CSS for the most part, but it would be better to see text with a fixed width option more characteristic of wikis. Also, the Preview header text "This is only a preview; changes have not yet been saved!" shown in a article edit mode with the default BSG skin is so dark in my Firefox browser as to be unreadable. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:37, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
:Characterostic - Yes. I can change to what font. I am starting to hate the font in here myself because I can't see the wiki code very well. So give me a font and I will change it. Preview text - Sending to Joe for an upload. Minor mistake on my part. Anything else? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:47, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
:Will be back to the font that it was before on next update. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:34, 23 August 2006 (CDT)
::Done. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:43, 25 August 2006 (CDT)

==Airdates==
Holy cow! Being informative is good, but the Airdates section is continuing to grow unchecked. Any suggestions as to how we could slim down the look on the mainpage, but still have it be easy to access for people to find their respective airdates? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:00, 25 August 2006 (CDT)
: I know this might sound biased, but one idea is to just list the US, Canada and UK airdates on the main page, then list all the other country airdates on a subpage in a fashion similar to what we do with the Main Page news. Since most of our audience is going to be from those countries anyway, we may as well focus on them.-- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:52, 25 August 2006 (CDT)
::I too was wary of bias. However, realistically we can't fit everybody's airdates on the main page. I'd like to have that info here, but it's not our primary mission (we're not tvguide.com). I concur that we should select a cutoff for main page airdates and then store the rest on a separate page. Maybe a one-link depth (clicking the "airdates" icon would take you to the "All airdates" article, of which the "US/UK/CAN" is just one of the child templates. This would require a change to the main page (pointing to the new US/UK/CAN template), the creation of the US/UK/CAN template, and a massive redesign of Mainpage/airdates to accomodate the new "global airdate" scheme (as well as including a display/edit of the US/UK/CAN template). That'd be my best guess. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:03, 25 August 2006 (CDT)
::{{support}} Before it was a problem having no airdates. Now we have a ton. [[BW:TV]]? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:41, 25 August 2006 (CDT)

:::It might be late for my suggestions, but I was waiting for an official information. Here: 1- It's now official, Space Channel will be following the SciFi broadcasts. But it will be airing the day after, the saturday. So the Canadian airdate is almost the same as the US, it'll be kind of redundant, right? So my suggestion is to merge US and CAN, and have a side note that explain that CAN is the day after, the saturday. Or 2- My second suggestion is to have, on the main page, a quick list of the '''next new''' episode for each contry. Something like: 

::::'''US''' » ''Occupation'' and ''Precipice'' - Fri. October 6th 
::::'''CAN''' » ''Occupation'' and ''Precipice'' - Sat. October 7th 
::::'''UK''' » ''Occupation'' - October... 
::::'''AUS''' » ... 
::::''etc.'' 

:::We can also use the flag of the country! The idea of the list came because I'm not sure about the airdates of the reruns and the marathons needs to be on the main page and I think everyone can wish to come here just to have a quick look to know when the next episode is. But, with that, we create a second page with a section for each country for all the reruns airdates, the last week episode, the next two or tree weeks episodes... In other words, a TvGuide page. Some people might be interested in that kind of information, and since it won't be on the main page, I don't think that it's a problem to have a TvGuide. Or We keep it that way, it's good enough :) --[[User:Karoshi|Karōshi]] 13:13, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
::::Well... we already have the next and previous episode up at the top, but the airdates give the time and channel. {{flag|US}} is not working :( But to understand you correcty....

::::Main page - Times of next episodes only.
::::Other airdates - Times of next episodes only.
::::(New Page) TV Reruns - Times of next reruns for the same.

::::I would still suggest we keep the same lanauges and not do this witht he german dates as they have their own wiki. But US, UK, CAN, and AU I see no problem with. I would have to get some more flags imported :-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:04, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
:::::Why the US flag doesn't work? I agree to keep ''english'' airdates on the ''english'' main page (and german date with german wiki...). The idea with the list on the main page, is to have at most 2 lines per country (well maybe 3). And just have the next new episode '''only'''. Ex: The next new on SciFi is on October 6th. The new page is for all the others airdates. Like Space Channel will, if I remember well, air once again TOS. So we need a kind of TvGuide. Re-air TOS or all the reruns or marathons, is kind of the same thing: an encore presentation. So the new page is for that, all the dates including the previous episode So, MP is short and quick with every country watching in english (with the flags or not). And New Page is long and detailed for every country (not for the one who has their wiki, like german). I hope this is clear. --[[User:Karoshi|Karōshi]] 16:00, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
::::::US flag is having SVG problems. Still trying to figure that one out. I think this is a soild idea. Would clean up the "text" a bit. I'll post any example here on the possiable look. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:06, 31 August 2006 (CDT)

=="Technical research and development wiki"==
Under "sister projects": I'm a little behind, sorry I'm out of the loop; what is that/how does it work?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:29, 25 August 2006 (CDT)
: It's merely the Hangar Bay, which is currently down. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:30, 25 August 2006 (CDT)
:I was about to post that :) Currently offiline. Getting to it in a little bit. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:31, 25 August 2006 (CDT)

== Images - Not many... ==

While I am on the subject (http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/gallery/0000esw7) has tons of images that can be uploaded with the {{tl|promo}} tag over at the media wiki. Should we just import them all and label them for use, or just upload when needed? I can say for sure we can upload some from "Scar" because the [[Scar]] guide is void of pictures. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 03:37, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

== 2,000,000 Page Views!? ==

Didn't we just pass the ''1,000,000'' page views milestone earlier this summer? Have we had a million page views this summer alone?!

I better buy several more [[Mop Boy|mops]]. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:32, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
:Congrats to us! Yay! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 09:37, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
::The [[Mop Boy|one]] i'm using atm is getting very worn but Joe refuses to pay for a new one :( --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 11:32, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Thanks for the [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support/Proposals|idea]]. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:50, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Didn't you get the memo? :-P -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 17:18, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

==This Wiki==

How is it done?!? This is the only Wiki(that i'v seen) with compleetly diferent colors and styell can some one tell me how it is don(you can put it on my talk page)?[[User:JosephK19|JosephK19]] 01:50, 30 September 2006 (CDT)
:This wiki still has a theme in the usual wiki colours but a new desiend was created by some members of this wiki to give it a unique look and feel. The [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki MediaWiki] site has some great tips on how to do all this. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 05:18, 30 September 2006 (CDT)

==3 Million Page Views==

Past 3 million sometime today. Another million right in around a month :). --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 12:44, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
: I'll check the server statistics as well... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 13:17, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
: Well, it's pretty damn cool. What's really cool is that the referrers are coming more and more from outside the USA. Most of them are, actually, from Googke UK, Google Germany, and Google Canada. There are even hits from Myspace and non-English language forums... interesting. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 13:42, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

== Message from [[User:Day|Day]] ==

He says he misses us and he's working full time. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:13, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
: Woo and Yay for Day :D http://www.woo-yay.net/images/12-04-05_cat-bite-woo.gif --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 14:21, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
:Glad that he's working, and we'll continue to save a spot for him on the couch in the break room. Though the time has come for us to consider stadium seating options... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:24, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

== Suggested addition to Main Page: Link to the episode guides ==

I think it would be nice to have a link to the episode guide on the Main Page, in addition to the links to the most recent episode and the next episode. It takes several clicks to get to the Season 3 episode list or the list for any other season.
--[[User:123home123|123home123]] 2:53, 14 October 2006 (EDT)
:Takes me two steps. [[Portal:Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Portal]] → Episode Guide. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 04:13, 14 October 2006 (CDT)
::You might not know that you have to go to the portal to get to the episode guides. I agree with 123home123, Im sure that the importance of an episode guite warrents a clreal link on the front page --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 10:10, 14 October 2006 (CDT)
::I believe the current system is more than sufficient; takes two clicks -- three if you want to get to a specific episode. The only issue I presently have is that the sub-portals (which has two icons, one of which is to the Episode Guide) should be placed as the first box on the portal page for RDM, TOS, and 1980. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:49, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

== BIG NEWS ==
A new series has come to light OSC (Original Seres Continuation). Despite its (currently) canceled state i believe that it is worth doing as it was in production (see http://www.cylon.org/bsg/bsg-desanto-01.html).[[User:JosephK19|JosephK19]] 04:02, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:Thats not new, and we have a section here on the wiki about the failed [[Battlestar Galactica (SDS)|DeSanto/Singer]] project as well as Richard Hatch's [[Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming|proof of concept trailer]]. p.s I fixed a few typos, hope you dont mind. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:18, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

== 4 Million Page Views ==
Another million in around 17 days. :) --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:38, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:This is becoming a problem; the wiki is quickly getting slower with our success. Not that this isn't cool, but we're also getting approximately 10 new users per day as well. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:12, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
::I wonder if mirroring would help on the load some (at least on the view side, not the editing side)? I'll try to go hunt down the mirroring article and see what the status is on that. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:24, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
::I noticed some horrible slowdowns in the last few days, down to flatout unavailability. I can't be the only one with those problems --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:42, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
:::You're not the only one. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:44, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

== Speed ==

From tonight through Sunday, I am asking for reports of your connection to the server. I really optimized the server in key areas. So right now for me it's going really fast, but I been on it since the start, so i'm kinda runied already. Any more comments on the speed? [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:42, 3 November 2006 (EST)

:Given that it's Friday, it's pretty good. I saw some fatal errors this morning when doing some editing, but the load appears to be fine right now. I'll keep my virtual fingers crossed. Kudos to you and Joe. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:40, 3 November 2006 (EST)

::Having MySQL crash every so offten is not fun. Gotta any ideas because I looked at the logs, and nothing. Just stops for NO reason. I am recoming apache with a different set and going to mess with the mysql starting flags and settings, just want to know your idea. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:10, 3 November 2006 (EST)

== Web Bots ==

Bots that now follow the Robot rules will not be able to connect to the site because Google sending 400-500 bots to crawl does take a toll on even this server. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:32, 8 November 2006 (CST)
: Using [http://www.google.com/webmasters Google's webmaster tools], I've also added the preference that Google use a slower crawl rate for their bots. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:57, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== News typo ==

Hi all ... noticed a typo in the news box of the main page ... should say "January 21st 2007" not "2006" ... [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 14:14, 21 November 2006 (CST)
:Fixed it. (The Fleet new service is editable by all, it's just the formatting layout of the main page that is locked down). I can relate though, as just today (thanks to a recycled UPS tracking number) I discovered that a package sent to me this week had been delivered on the 26th of January (of this year). The time machine appears to be going all sorts of haywire today... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:21, 21 November 2006 (CST)
::Thanks ... didn't realize the News Service was editable, or I'd've just fixed it! [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 14:34, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== All images are gone... ==

On every page I visit, I cannot view any images, except the logo on the top left.

I have uploaded [http://www.solbu.net/bilder/bsg/ 2 screenshots] on my website to document this.
It does not matter what browser I use. All images are replaced with a broken image link that is supposed to be located at en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Gif or en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/gif.

This started a few weeks ago. All my computers, Windows and Linux clients alike have this problem. (I have not checked with IE, and I have no intention to, as IE is blocked in the firewall.)

Any ideas?
--[[User:Solbu|Solbu]] 20:59, 21 November 2006 (CST)

: Very odd. Who else has this problem? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:07, 21 November 2006 (CST)

: In addition, I do not have this issue, and this is the first time I'm hearing of it. What ISP are you using? Are you on a network? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:11, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:: My ISP is Telenor Internett. (The biggest ISP in Norway.)

::I might have stumbled upon the solution. You see, I have turned OFF the "Referrer" in Opera for privacy reasons. When I turned it on, cleared my cache and restarted Opera the images worked. This tells me that someone have turned on an "image anti-stealing" feature on the webserver.

::Could that anti-feature be removed please? :-)--[[User:Solbu|Solbu]] 21:28, 21 November 2006 (CST)

::: Ok, that makes sense now. :-) Problem is if we turn off the hotlinking feature, people will resume their attempts to steal our bandwidth by hotlinking our imgages -- which is something which affects the performance of our server and something we can't afford to do. So, right now, we can't remove the feature. I'll look into finding out how to deal with the this issue. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:35, 21 November 2006 (CST)

: I'm having the same problem. I loathe sites that do this, because something in about the way Norton Firewall works causes the 'No Hotlinking' image to appear for all images. If anyone has a clue about how to fix that it'd be greatly appreciated.

== Lists of unnamed people ==

Since there are many recurring (or not) unnamed extras on BSG, I think a page similar to this one from Memory Alpha (the Star Trek wiki) would be a good idea:

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Unnamed_USS_Enterprise_%28NCC-1701%29_personnel

For example, people would like to have a list of appearances of people like [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques#Question on a recurring extra|this guy]]. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 09:06, 13 December 2006 (CST)

I created a stub: [[Unnamed Battlestar Galactica personnel]]. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 09:18, 13 December 2006 (CST)

== New Section for Main Page ==

I don't visit the blog as much as I maybe ought to (there's a couple of rather relevent posts up), but I had the idea that we could add a blog box to the main page. The icon link would take you to the blog, and the content of the box would consist of a (javascript or somesuch) RSS feed of the latest X postings. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:48, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:I actually looked a little into RSS feeds on the main page myself but didnt look very hard. Would be quite a cool feature if its possible --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:50, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::I'll try to mock up an example on the main page project page. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:57, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::Doh! All the RSS converters I am seeing commonly available are javascript. There are some php files that convert it to html, but I didn't want to get into that (as I don't have (and don't really want) privs to upload and install anything). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:23, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::Joe got it up and running [[Battlestar Wiki:Main page|here]] if you want to check it out. It's the "Blog" box under the "Airdates" box. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:11, 27 December 2006 (CST)

== Lang Bar ==

Greatfull Idea from MemoryAlpha. Check out [[BW:MAIN]] for the two examples. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:10, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:The flags do add some color. I like the flags in the main header box, in that we get the same effect without losing vertical space. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 19:38, 20 December 2006 (CST)

==Universal HD Season 3 Premiere==
Hey, I read here [http://www.radosh.net/archive/2006_09_01_radosh_archive.html] that Universal HD will premiere Season 3 on January 7th. I don't know if it's a reliable source, but I know some of you might be able to find the official info better than I do, so I just wanted to mention it since we always put when episodes have their first run on HD. Damn, I can't wait to see the screencaps! --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 02:46, 21 December 2006 (CST)
:Considering that it airs in the UK in HD on the 9th its highly likely that you yanks will demand to have it in HD before us. If I was going to put money on it i'd say the rumors are correct. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:19, 21 December 2006 (CST)
::Well I'm glad that either way we'll be getting High Resolution Screencaps soon....by all that is good, I salivate at the thought of them (No, not literally). Anyways, I think it is, because the other day I heard was the 27th, but that's not a Sunday, while the 7th is, so my bet is on that. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 04:34, 21 December 2006 (CST)