Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:Watcher

2007-06-22T22:17:58Z

Watcher: /* Logo */

User talk:Watcher

2007-06-22T22:17:34Z

Watcher: /* Nirvana */

Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II/Archive2

2006-03-08T09:24:43Z

Watcher: /* The Cliffhanger */

== The Cliffhanger ==

I'm betting that Baltar's little gift to the [[Demand Peace]] movement makes its way to ''Pegasus'' and is about to destroy or mortally damage the battlestar in this season closer. Mortally damaging it makes more sense to allow ''Galactica'' (and the show) to gather some of the new resources that ''Pegasus'' brought before it has to be removed from the picture. Perhaps, in coordination with a probable Cylon attack, ''Pegasus'' may end up doing a "[[The Living Legend, Part II|Commander Cain charge]]" at the start of Season 3. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:52, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:Looks like I picked one hell of a week to quite drinking...--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:02, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::Is it just me, or does the second season seem to be bouncing from cliffhanger to cliffhanger, with the in-between episodes being nothing but filler? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:08, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:::It isn't just you... Looks like I picked one hell of a week to quit sniffing glue. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 12:22, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::I don't mind the "filler" episodes. I believe you need them to set up future stories down the road. I believe PEGASUS will stick around for one or two episodes next year(Gives them time to strip her down)....Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines!--[[User:Quig|Quig]] 16:36, 15 February 2006 (EST)

There's no cliffhanger, really. The Cylons win, humanity is occupied and the ships of the fleet are essentially empty with everyone down on Cylon-occupied New Caprica. The show is completely different from here on out. Cloud Nine is gone (which from a production standpoint makes sense--- no need for a planet-like ship when they have an actual planet) and all the leads but Lee, Adama and possibly Sharon are on the planet, hoping not to be killed by their new Cylon overlords. It's awesome. Oh, girlBilly seems to be sticking around as a character as well. [[User:numbertwelve|numbertwelve]]

:You have no idea; that's just fanfic. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:11, 24 February 2006 (EST)

::Could one or the other of you please explain what that last enormous edit-and-reversion was all about? Numbertwelve, have you seen the episode in question? Are you passing on reports from other sources, and if so, can you identify them? Merv, are you familiar with a fanfic that resembles his description? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:18, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:::Well, it sounds like he was just posting his own ''guesses/fanfic ideas'' without any basis on actual material, so I cleaned it up. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:31, 24 February 2006 (EST)
::::I believe that the info is coming from [http://greycoupon.livejournal.com/3808.html BIG SPOILERS]. Don't know the validity of it though.
:::::Based on the what I've read of the Part I summary, I'd say that the information was actually accurate. That said, I'm not sure this site really wants to post detailed episode summaries before the episode has actually aired anywhere, especially when we have no way of confirming the source.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 10:35, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:::::: In all likelihood, numbertwelve's comments stem from [http://www.patriotresource.com/bg/insights/spoilers/season2b.html here]. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:24, 8 March 2006 (CST)

== The Peace Proposal ==

I haven't actually seen "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]", yet (I don't have cable, so I'm basically watching via DVD as time allows), but reading the summary, I see no mention of the Cylon peace proposal in the story as aired. It looks as though the preliminary data for the episodes was somewhat misleading, and that the peace proposal won't come until Part II. The Part II article, however, still reflects the old information. Should this be changed now? Or just wait for Friday's airing and the full summary?--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 10:32, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Black Market/Archive 1

2006-01-29T00:39:40Z

Watcher: /* Baltar's Treason */

==Analysis==
The criticism here needs to be toned down drastically. I personally enjoyed this episode much more than I had been expecting to. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:16, 28 January 2006 (EST)
: I don't know exactly how to feel about this episode. Honestly, it wasn't all that bad -- it could have been much better executed, however. I can't really disagree with any of the critisms leveled at this episode, primarily because I hold them to be evident as well. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:45, 28 January 2006 (EST)
::I'm in agreement, the analysis section does need to be toned down a little. Some of the criticisms are totally justified, while other parts seem unduly harsh. It wasn't a great episode but despite its flaws in did tell an interesting story. --[[User:Rexpop|Rexpop]] 10:12, 28 January 2006 (EST)

I've edited this article heavily to concise it from its overly play-by-play format, but it could still see a more concising eye. I've also toned down the analysis to provable (i.e., non-subjective) points of the episode, deleting redundant or highly subjective commentary. There was too much personal bias in the story, reading more like a review than an analysis. Despite the small story in this episode, this article is quite weighty than the others. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:50, 28 January 2006 (EST)

Thank you for editing down my Analysis. Sometimes it's hard to do a write up, so I just let myself rant, and acutally ''hoped'' that others would heavily edit it down to something more concise, depending one whether they agreed or not. I was just getting the ball rolling. Thanks. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:57, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:I was about to say, the summary seems a bit lengthy. It's supposed to be a summary, not a play-by-play. I admire the fact the Noteworthy Dialogue's have been shorter lately, focusing on critical stuff. Thanks for the edit, but I still think its overly detailed. Read the summaries for "33" and "Water" and see that they focus on what happens during the episode and not why or reasoning. I feel like i'm reading an essay rather then a description, but thats just me. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 18:10, 28 January 2006 (EST)

== Regular vs. Guest Star ==
I noticed that someone edited this and said that they "included Leah Cairns (Racetrack)" as a Guest Star. At what point are characters considered "regulars" versus just being a spot-on "guest star"? Personally, I consider characters like Racetrack, Cat, and Hot Dog as regulars by now, albeit in the minor, second-tier category. They are existing in the "Wedge factor"... or, to put it better, they are in that role that [[Boomer (TOS)|Boomer]] and [[Jolly (TOS)|Jolly]] held in The Old Series -- that of a regularly re-occuring peripheral character that the fan can follow, and aren't getting killed off every episode like the Star Trek "Redshirt". -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 10:50, 28 January 2006 (CST)

:There are seven regulars - Edward James Olmos, Mary McDonnell, James Callis, Tricia Helfer, Jamie Bamber, Katee Sakhoff, and Grace Park. They are contracted on a per-season basis. Everyone else is a guest star, paid on a per-episode basis. There are two types of guest star - those listed during the opening of Act 1, after the intro sequence, and those listed in the credits at the end of the episode. I'm not entirely sure what the difference is, but the larger roles tend to be the ones listed earlier. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:56, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:It's a bit of a grey area; officially, there are 7 "regular cast" members, as stated above. There's also "recurring characters", in legalize, these are "guest stars" that appear in most episodes. Case in point, Colonel Tigh has been in every episode but ins't counted as a main cast member (something to do with salaries, etc) and Chief Tyrol has appeard in all but two episodes (he grew more as they went along), so he's kind of also a recurring character too. Cally kind of also grew into that, as well. So the line between "regular" and "recurring" is blurry for Col. Tigh and Tyrol. Similarly, there is a blurry line between "guest" and "recurring". Several "guest" characters reappear more than once (Elosh, Dr. Cottle, Cain and Fisk I guess). Meanwhile, Kat and Hot Dog were originally intended as one-shot guests, but according to the DVD commentary, RDM was surprised that other writers would then script them in whenever "another pilot" was required, and they've been building up Kat. Likewise, Racetrack was just a "guest" but I think has advanced to "recurring" becase of all the character development she got in Final Cut and Flight of the Phoenix and she's also appeared alot. At any rate, there's a blurry line and it's really subjective.
:That said, I do want to add "Helo and Tyrol do not appear in this episode" to the notes for easy referrence, because even though they aren't "regulars", they have each only missed one maybe two episodes before this. Tyrol wasn't in "Home, Part I", and Helo wasn't in "Fragged". So I think that makes it significant enough to put down there.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13:33, 28 January 2006 (EST)

::BSG also makes the distinction of "co-stars" which appear at the beginning of Act 1 but without the heading of "Guest Star" that all the other guest stars do. I think Racetrack, Kat, and Hot Dog are still listed as actual guest stars, though. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 13:26, 28 January 2006 (EST)

::I still disagree. There's no expectation that guest characters like Helo and Tyrol will appear in every episode, so their absence here is really unremarkable. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:00, 28 January 2006 (EST)

== Baltar's Treason ==
Seems to me there's a lot of "jumping the gun" vis-a-vis Baltar. For one thing, he did not knowingly have anything to do with the Cylon attack. While his actions were unethical, he clearly had no intention of committing genocide. He was a dupe in that respect. Nor is there any reason for the President to think him working with the Cylons on the basis of his having been with '''Six''' prior to the attack unless she also had some motive for believing he knew this woman to be a Cylon (which he did not). If confronted with this fact, he can (with complete honesty even) say: "Madame President, no less than two crewmembers of the Galactica fell in love with a Cylon. So did I. I admit this. And, like them, I did not know she was a Cylon. Nor can I say in total candor my feelings for the woman I knew are not still...tender. As well as not a little bit confused. This was not a matter I would share willingly. But if you examine the facts, you will realize it likely I was neither the first, the tenth, or even the hundredth human being to be so deceived by the nature of our enemy."

She may think him a selfish, unethical wild card (and I'd agree). She may dislike him personally and think he'd best be as far from any kind of political power as possible. That seems to me totally reasonable. But what reason has anyone to think he's an actual traitor? A Cylon himself? Ah, that would at least make some sense, as far as suspicions go. But how to prove it? And besides, what if he isn't? [[User:Zahir|Zahir]] 12:21, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:You're also talking about a woman who had an epiphany during a very traumatic situation, and like most of the people in the Fleet, Laura is human...and humans make mistakes. She might be "on the ball" in every way when it comes to her work as President, but her dislike of Baltar is on a personal level, and personal feelings, no matter how much people try to prevent it, will come into play in other aspects of their dealing with the situation. I suspect that will crystalize more as we go towards the season finale.

:There is also the fact that while Baltar may have been a dupe in the beginning, he's cleaning perilously close to the pit of darkness now, and today's dupe may well end up being season three's traitor.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 19:34, 28 January 2006 (EST)

::RDM notes in his podcast for ''Epiphanies'' and implies in his podcast for ''Black Market'' that it was his intention that the viewer understand Roslyn's reaction in ''Epiphanies'' as her realization that Baltar "had something to do with it." "It" being the Cylon Attack. Whether RDM pulled that off or not is, of course, up to the viewer. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 19:39, 28 January 2006 (EST)

User talk:Day

2006-01-27T23:24:51Z

Watcher: /* Congrats! */

Hello and welcome to my talk page. I was just sick of this being empty. Please feel free to leave a note or whatever. Or bribes. Bribes are good.

==Bribes, etc.==
10 cubits for the pictures. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:07, 31 August 2005 (EDT)
:HAH! Awesome. I win. ;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 13:32, 31 August 2005 (EDT)
:: Forgot to tell you.... I don't have any money. The Cylons hacked my bank account. ;-) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:47, 31 August 2005 (EDT)
:::Tear. --[[User:Day|Day]] 22:54, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

::1000 Quatloos to the newcomer! :) [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:54, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

::: Now? Not that I'm old, but neither did I join yesterday. Heh. Anyway, hi, Spence. I guess now I can afford to buy the Wiki a round of ice cream cones. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:00, 22 September 2005 (EDT)

I guess this goes under "etc." Does anyone else wonder if [http://galactica.emedian.net/episode/2.07/images/BSG05EP207_937CS.JPG this] is an extreme close-up of the rare BSG 75 Official Divot Replacer issued for the Hundred and First Annual Intra-Fleet Golf Tournament? I guess I could be wrong. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:07, 6 January 2006 (EST)

==Kudos==
Nice job with the pictures so far. Here's to beautifying battlestar wiki one step at a time. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:13, 30 August 2005 (EDT)
:Thanks! I've only barely begun. I have to admit, though, that I'm kind of dissapointed. No bribes so far. ;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:15, 30 August 2005 (EDT)

By the way. Love your User page. Going to steal it. :) [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:55, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

==Pictures==
Why don't you move your to-do list of pictures over to [[Battlestar Wiki:Characters]] so that we can all pitch in and check them off as we go? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:17, 1 September 2005 (EDT)
:Ah. Point. I wasn't sure if I should or shouldn't. I'll update it for stuff I've made (but not uploaded yet) and then move it. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:43, 1 September 2005 (EDT)

==The Farm==
Day, can you find a wide shot of the convicts in prayer who Roslin greets in [[The Farm]] for the article [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies]]? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:45, 9 September 2005 (EDT)

: The ones who kneel when she enters the room? I'll assume so and go looking, anyway. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:00, 9 September 2005 (EDT)

::Yes, them. Thanks. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:04, 9 September 2005 (EDT)

::: Here's [[:image:The_Farm-Group_Worship.jpg|this]]. I didn't do any cropping, but I can if you like. I'll post a note on your talk page, too. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:41, 23 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Thanks! --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:56, 23 September 2005 (EDT)

== Outfoxed! ==

I'm looking to see if anyone here uses [http://getoutfoxed.com/ Outfoxed]. I haven't polled any of my other friends, but I thought I'd post this here, anyway. I don't know anyone, currently, who's got an account and so I'm looking to get connected to it and the site reccomends doing it that way, rather than doing the auto-invite from the maker. If this is the first time you've heard of it, then go cruise the web page and see if it's something you'd use. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:53, 2 October 2005 (EDT)
: I'd use it, except there isn't a Linux port of it. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 20:21, 10 October 2005 (EDT)

== Check out [[CWA]] ==

Day, please check out the [[Colonial Wireless Alphabet]] article when you get the chance. Let me know what you think. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 20:16, 10 October 2005 (EDT)

: Sweeeeet. I think we should make some overt note of those that're canonical, but I'm not sure how to do it, exactly. I'll meditate on it. Maybe someone will beat me to the punch. Also, I may change some of the pronunciations a bit. Is it possible we could get the [[Wikipedia:International Phonetic Alphabet|IPA]] supported here somehow? That would be a neat addition for me (and probably Peter) to play with, but I'm not sure if it would be too opaque to the average user or not. I'm not saying ''replace'' the current pronunciations with IPA, but using IPA in addition to them. Anyway... I like. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:27, 10 October 2005 (EDT)

== Character Data Template ==

I saw the problem, but I went back and fixed it like right away. You must have an outdated version in your cache. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:52, 9 December 2005 (EST)

== .ico file ==

Can you e-mail me the .ico file for the favorites icon? Here's my e-mail: joebeaudoin AT joebeaudoin DOT net -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:56, 18 December 2005 (EST)

== Image Requests ==

I own the DVD sets for Seasons 1 (UK) and 2.0 and I like to take me some screen caps. If you feel a picture is needed in some article, please feel free to drop me a note here. Be as specific or vague as you like, though I'd rather know what the [[frak]] you're talking about than not. Also feel free to add image requsts to places like the [[Battlestar Wiki:Characters#List of Characters wanting pictures|Characters Project]].

== Re: Welcome ==

Thank you for the welcome. Given your Texas alumnus status and my LSU student status, I can assure you we want the same thing to happen to USC this January 4th. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 05:12, 28 December 2005 (EST)

: Ah! Ha-HA! I laughed aloud as I read that. I remain optimistic. It'll be a tense shoot-out, that's for certain. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:36, 28 December 2005 (EST)

== VLC Question ==
I have used VLC for my screenshots (at your suggestion, actually), and for the most part it has been a good tool. I was wondering, though, if you knew any way to:
*Go to a specified time index.
*Move forward and backward frame by frame.
Thus far I have depended on luck and the pause button, along with the 3 second skip shortcut, and multiple tries in order to get frames. However that can get tiresome, and sometimes I still can't hit that ''perfect'' frame. A cursory Google (just now) seems to show that VLC doesn't have a frame by frame feature. I may have to find an app that does if that is the case. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:40, 6 January 2006 (EST)

: Yeah... I have these same problems and basically just live with them. If you find a decent replacement, ''please'' let me know. I'd love a frame-by-frame mode and/or reliable time-index seeker, but you also have to retain that "snapshot" option or else you'll end up with weird screens due to copy-protection stuff or whatever causes them to go black. Sorry I couldn't tell you there's an easy way. Getting a picture for [[Alistair Thorne]]'s template was a pain in the butt. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:10, 6 January 2006 (EST)
::I know what you mean, do you know how much trouble it was to get a decent screenshot of 7242's flyby in Pegasus, it was frakking annoying. Ooo...six more hours til Resurrection Ship! --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:56, 6 January 2006 (EST)

::: Yeah. Often the best shots are in the middle of motion, so you have to get the '''''one''''' frame that doesn't have all the motion blur. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:21, 6 January 2006 (EST)

Possible alternative... VirtualDub. I haven't gotten it up 100%, but it is showing promise. It's free, too, wish is pretty high on the priority list for my search. PowerDVD does have a frame advance, but the screen capture goes to clipboard (not to file like VLC). Try this mod of [http://fcchandler.home.comcast.net/stable/ VirtualDub]. You actually open the VOB file off the DVD, so it's a little more "rough", but it shows potential and has the indexing and frame by frame capabilities we're looking for. However, this desktop doesn't have the horsepower to really push it like I'd want it to. I'll keep searching, but in the meantime I'll stick with VLC and the 3 second skipback + pause. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 21:16, 7 January 2006 (EST)

== T-shirt? ==

I had a kind of a mind-twitch and came up with an idea for a ''very'' obscure BSG [http://customink.com/cink/r.jsp?E=iamday%40gmail.com&F=cag t-shirt idea]. I re-created the rank pip so I could scale it and all... And the way I've done it, I can easily create lesser ranks, though I've done nothing with wings, just number of chevrons. If you guys think it would be worth actually doing, then maybe we could design a shirt with the CustomInk thing and get some. I like simple and obscure the best. I also, to avoid legal issues, would like to avoid mentioning BSG directly, or using actual art from the series. Anyway, if nothing else, it's something kind of interesting to look at. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:13, 7 January 2006 (EST)

== Racetrack pic ==

Day, this is ltcrashdown. I got the pic from 'The Resistance'. It's from the scene where Racetrack stops Apollo just before he helps President Roslin escape the Galactica. --[[User Talk: ltcrashdown|Ltcrashdown 21:51, 8 January 2006 (EST)]]
:On second thought she doesn't really look like she normally does in that scene (because she's scared); I think there wree some good ones in "Final Cut" or "Flight of the Phoenix"--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:20, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Thanks! ==
I appreciate you holding my hand as I'm getting a hang of the BSG Wiki. I really appreciate it. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:01, 18 January 2006 (EST)

: Heh! Not my intent, but sure thing. ;) I think you'll find us a fairly nice bunch. To paraphrase [[Wikipedia:The Streets|The Streets]]: "We're friendly, peaceful people. We just sit in our hazey bubble discussing how beautiful [Grace Park] is." ;)

:: No, no, not a criticism at all. After all, anyone who likes Grace Park and Firefly automatically gets cool points in my book...[[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:19, 18 January 2006 (EST)

== Past vs Present tense ==
In the Kara Thrace article, I changed the areas referring to Zak Adama to the past tense. According to the Standards and Conventions page, anything that happens in flashbacks or prior to the miniseries should be referred to in the past tense. I wanted to point that out in order to justify why I made that change. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:26, 18 January 2006 (EST)

: Oh. Yes. Of course. Right. Revert me. My bad. Good eye. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:28, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:: Heh, I just didn't want to make an enemy my first day! :) [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]]

::: You handeled it wonderfully. Best, rather than re-reverting, to bring the issue up on some talk page or other, either the editing user's (as you did) or the articles (as [[Talk:Kara Thrace|Spence did]]). Is this your first Wiki or are you a veteran of another war, so to speak? --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:33, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:::: I edit quite liberally on the main wiki site, but the smaller number of articles here and the common interest is quite nice. I may wind up spending more time here, since I'm more knowledgeable of the subject, and it looks like you guys could use someone with a military background...like me. :) [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:38, 18 January 2006 (EST)

::::: "Main wiki site" being... Wikipedia? And, yeah, we've got a few military folk around, but it never hurts to have more. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:58, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:::::: Yes, Wikipedia. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 10:42, 19 January 2006 (EST)

==RFA==

Day, I've nominated you for adminship at [[BattleStar Wiki:Requests for adminship/Day]]. You should indicate whether you accept the nomination, when you get the chance. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:54, 19 January 2006 (EST)

*Congrats from the New Guy, Day. You got my vote. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 08:50, 20 January 2006 (EST)

::: Gee. Thanks. I'm actually kind of--hrm... I supposed embarassed at the attention would be the right word. Caught me a bit off guard, I think. --[[User:Day|Day]] 15:44, 20 January 2006 (EST)

==Guild Wars Reply==

Actually, I play World of Warcraft, but the name is from Asheron's Call. Hehe, so you're close! Several friends of mine play, but heck if I know their names in game. --Bane Grievver 21:29, 23 January 2006 (EST)

:After I posted that, I went back on and checked, the name I was remembering was actually "Lord Banegrivm". Close, but no cigar. Anyway... There's that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:09, 24 January 2006 (EST)

== Congrats! ==

You are now a <s>target</s> *ahem* ''an'' administrator! Again, congrats. Your vest is en route. :-) Kidding... kidding... -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:56, 27 January 2006 (EST)

:And, although Steelviper is younger here than you, you're the rookie admin, so you have to mop. I recommend short strokes to keep strain off your back (and allow you to a less vulnerable target). SV will be transferring his mop, I think... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:05, 27 January 2006 (EST)

::Congrats! Here's the mop. If you lose it, or break it, they make you buy a new one. (Don't ask.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:09, 27 January 2006 (EST)

:::Thumbs up! Don't hurt yourself weilding all that new power. :) --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 18:24, 27 January 2006 (EST)

Talk:Blackbird/Archive 1

2006-01-22T21:25:24Z

Watcher: /* Blackbird on Pegasus' Dradis */ Super Duper Dradis

==Photo==
We should probably get a screenshot of the Blackbird, both when under construction and during its test flight. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 00:03, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
:I added a photo of the blackbird at the commissioning, since it was the widest shot of the ship -- [[User:Danaucpe|Danaucpe]] 21:34, 18 September 2005 (EDT)
:: Thanks! Hopefully when the DVDs come out for Season 2 we can get a cleaner, crisper screenshot. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 12:29, 20 September 2005 (EDT)

::: I might be able to get a cleaner one, but I'll have to see. I won't have time for a couple of days, maybe, but I'll give it a go and see what I can do. If I replace this image file, does it have to be the same size, or if I crop it differently, will the Wiki software still handle it okay? I'll also see about getting one from when it's under construction. --[[User:Day|Day]] 13:29, 20 September 2005 (EDT)

:::: It doesn't have to be the same size. The software will know the difference. Thanks Day! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:31, 20 September 2005 (EDT)

== Name ==

"The first prototype was dubbed "Laura", in honor of President Laura Roslin." Are there really going to be any more of these things? If they had to through so much to scrounge up materials for just one...Also, isn't its name now 'Laura,' not 'Blackbird,' which I thought was just its temporary designation? [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 10:57, 17 September 2005 (EDT)
: I'm not too sure, to be honest with you. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable with this sort of thing might wish to come forward and clarify for us. As for scrounging up parts, they may eventually be able to get some from unserviceable Vipers. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 11:07, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

::Two points to resolve this. One, we'll just check next episode, and if they consistently call it ''Laura'' and never "Blackbird" we change the name. Two, next episode the Battlestar Pegasus is showing up, with a full compliment of Vipers, so that should kind of render it a moot point for a while. ---Ricimer, 17 Sept, 2005
:::Perhaps it's the Blackbird-class Viper "Laura", where Laura is the name of that particular ship. Well, I guess we'll find out later. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:24, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

:::: Huh. I hadn't thought of most of those things. I got the impression that it was a Blackbird (implicitly Mark I) named Laura. So, I wouldn't call it a Viper. But there's nothing conclusive yet. --[[User:Day|Day]] 15:23, 19 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::In the blog I linked to below, David Eick says that it's definitely ''not'' a Viper, but something completely new. He also says it's the only stealth ship in the Fleet, which I guess might say somehting about the Colonial military mindset. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 14:28, 20 September 2005 (EDT)
::::::Well, we wouldn't know if the Colonial Military had stealth craft before the attack or not, since none of them escaped with ''Galactica''. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:45, 20 September 2005 (EDT)

*The latest video blog ([http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/bts/videoblog/ here]) has Eick calling it the Blackbird, not the Laura, so I guess that is the accepted name afterall. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 11:20, 20 September 2005 (EDT)

Blackbird is the name of the ship type (like "Viper" or "Raptor"), Laura is the name of the ship itself. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 17:08, 25 September 2005 (EDT)
:Apollo just called it the Blackbird in "Pegasus". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:28, 25 September 2005 (EDT)
:With only one Blackbird, the group will call it only by its kind's name. If more are made, maybe the nicknames will be used, maybe not. This nicknaming was common in WWII on bomber aircraft, but right now it's just an honorific. Militarily, "Blackbird" rolls off the tongue better and appears as the common usage right now. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:37, 26 September 2005 (EDT)

== Blackbird's Shape, and the Shuttle Orbiter ==

According to online sources, the design of a stealth aircraft uses angles along the fuselage and a low profile to cause radar signals to bounce erratically off of it, causing a small radar image, perhaps the size of a bird, if at all. Further reduction of the radar bounceback can be done by using radar-absorbing materials (RAM), which absorb radar energy, emitting heat as a by-product. While carbon-composite materials may not actually be in truth RAM material, in Galactica's universe, DRADIS may not be sensitive to it. Color does not matter for RAM material; this is a matter of visual stealth and aesthetics. In the case of the American aircraft mentioned in the article as a stealth fighter, its shape is less used in stealth, but obviously RAM is used for this purpose.

Sources
* [http://www.airforce-technology.com/glossary/radar-absorbent-material.html Definition of RAM] 
* [http://www.danshistory.com/f117.shtml Info on the F-117 Stealth Fighter]

The entire vehicle that lifts off the pad at Cape Canaveral is officially known as the ''Space Transportation System'', or STS. Colloquially the entire launch vehicle is also known as the Space Shuttle. The ''Orbiter'' is the official name of the winged vehicle and the only part of the launch vehicle with its form of carbon composite known as Reinforced Carbon-Carbon, which is why I'm a stickler in noting the Orbiter, not the entire Shuttle stack, uses carbon composites. Since the Blackbird uses a kind of carbon composite that can cover the entire ship, the material is significantly lighter than RCC, which has some weight and greater fragility than what Galactica's carbon composite appears to be. Perhaps they use carbon-fiber composites similar to that found in our popular in racing bicycles. Perhaps they use graphite...who knows? Whatever it is, it's lightweight. 00:17, 18 September 2005 (EDT)

==FTL Drive==

So now we know. Now somebody explain to me how Starbuck could sneak right up the Cylon's preverbial arses yet still set off the Fleet's Dradis while still outside of visual contact. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 23:03, 6 January 2006 (EST)
:Blackbird presumably has a silent running mode of sorts; as you could see in "Flight of the Phoenix" they announced "no Dradis contact" when Starbuck *killed the engines* and turned her lights off. So it seems that, at the time, they were expecting it to have a contact. Starbuck probably kicked her engines on FULL BLAST here because she WANTED to get their attention. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:40, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:: Yeah. I imagine it's an emissions management issues. Notice, too, that when shew flew by the Ressurection Ship, she seemed to switch off several systems, perhaps in order to reduce the electricity that she was using. I bet she did a lot of engine flaring, creating a large infrared signature. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:43, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:::Good points. But look at that scene again. She's awfully darned close to the Resurrection Ship (and presumably inside the defense perimeter of the two Basestars) when she shuts everything down (I'm presuming that's RDM's intended indicator that the Blackbird has gone quiet). When she lights up again (including restarting her engines and spinning up her FTL) she only a hair's breadth out of the innards of the R.S. It seems to me that in both situations she should have drawn attention. I think this was probably a cheat on RDM's part for the sake of visual and expositional brevity. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 23:56, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:::: Yeah. I do, too. THough, I think it would have been equally understandable and within the style of the show to simply show her close to the R.S., then show her far away and jumping. There's plenty of implied action elsewhere in the series. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:50, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:::::Wow... Somebody agreed with me. I'm gonna have to print this out. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 00:59, 7 January 2006 (EST)

The FTL drive could've come from [[Raptor 305]], scrapped in "[[Fragged]]" --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:01, 7 January 2006 (EST)
: It's also possible that it could have come from [[Pegasus_(RDM)|Pegasus]], considering that it was mostly likely on the ship when [[Lee_Adama|Apollo]] gave [[Kara_Thrace|Starbuck]] the equipment for the original recon mission for the R.S. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:22, 19 January 2006 (EST)

== No Transponder? ==

It seems far more likely to me that she simply toggled the transponder off. Being a transmission source, it should be able to be on or off as desired in a stealth ship. It seems wildly risky to omit one completely, though. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 00:31, 11 January 2006 (EST)
: It had to have been transmitting some kind of signal for both Galactica and Pegasus to pick it up on DRADIS, friendly or hostile signature notwithstanding. --[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 00:39, 11 January 2006 (EST)

== Fate of the Blackbird ==

As mentioned in the article, we did see [[Lee_Adama|Apollo]] eject from the 'Bird, yet the fate of the craft wasn't ascertained. Any thoughts? My thought would be that the craft was destroyed, given the amount of damage the craft took. And, if it wasn't destroyed (or the Cylons manage to discover and salvage the craft), what then? --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:22, 19 January 2006 (EST)

: In real life, carbon-composite is very fragile, and the Colonials certainly acted as if it is for them, too (though less fragile). My guess is that the initial impact tore ''Laura'' up pretty good and then being unwhole did further damage. A Viper would probably have been recoverable at least, if still scrap, but I bet our stealth ship is just so much metal and bits floating about now. Perhaps time will tell.--[[User:Day|Day]] 01:18, 20 January 2006 (EST)

::Indeed. Though I kind of see Blackbird as a plot mechanic for the ''Cain'' trilogy. Now that they have lots of Vipers from Pegasus, I think they'll be more concerned with servicing them again and not have enough time for Blackbird. You never know. Heck, maybe they could salvage the ''pieces'' from it, then build essentially a "new" Blackbird from the salvaged parts, ''Laura II''. Time will tell, sooner or later. Always does. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13:27, 20 January 2006 (EST)

== Blackbird on Pegasus' Dradis ==

'''"The Blackbird is in visual range of the Fleet long before DRADIS detects her approach."'''

Uh, Spence, guys... are we absolutely '''''sure''''' about this:

[[Image:Bscap101.jpg]]

It looks to me that Starbuck popped up on Pegasus' Dradis out near the outer reaches of its sensitivity... well before anyone reported a visual. (Or did you mean, Spence, that Starbuck peek-a-booed the fleet before they saw her?)

:You may be right...but it seemed that the Blackbird snuck up on both of the battlestars. Take a look at what Thrace can see when you pops back in and you can see how close she is to the Fleet--she was close enough to see the chicken fight, if I remember right. That's awfully close to the Fleet from an attack perspective. Do write in your take on it and let others confirm what you (or I) interpreted. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:33, 22 January 2006 (EST)

::I think this is likely another one of those scenes the editors elected to fudge for the sake understandability for the more casual viewer (they really can't worry about people like us -- it would take them a year to make an episode). You're right, Spence. If Starbuck had had laser guided missles, she would have been able to stuff one right up somebody's exhaust. ''At the same time'' neither Galactica's nor Pegasus' Vipers have any idea she's out there -- she comes up on none of their Dradis sweeps (at first anyway). Only Pegasus herself detects Starbuck. And damn fast at that. In fact so fast we must assume: (1) Pegasus' Dradis hardware is better than what's aboard the Vipers (very plausible). (2) Pegasus' Dradis is superior to Galactica's (also acceptable). (3) Pegasus' Dradis far outstrips that of the Cylons (I find that highly frakkin' unlikely).
::I see no logical way to reconcile that last bit. Coupled with the above image of Blackbird right on the hairy edge of Pegasus' Dradis sweep, I think this scene has a host of issues especially when it's compared to the scene which proceeded it. It's just something they decided to let go for the sake of expediancy and dramatic effect.
::(BTW. This really came up because I misinterpreted your sentence. I thought by "in visual range of the Fleet long before DRADIS detects her approach" you meant she was seen (by pilots or whatnot) before her presence registered on Dradis.) --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 16:25, 22 January 2006 (EST)

User talk:Talos

2006-01-22T20:36:34Z

Watcher: /* Happy Belated Birthday */

==Just a Note==
Heya, Talos. A couple times I've noticed that on talk pages, you're not signing your comments. It's kind of hard that way to see who said what's typed. It's simple to do, just after the end of your post, type two dashes and four tildes (without spaces: --~~ ~~). That will sign the thing like this: --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:11, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

: Sorry, I actually just noticed that with my comment on the Mil. Hairstyles. I didn't know how to do that before but now I'll go back and add them. Thanks for the help, now let's see if it works. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:17, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

:: No worries. Also note, that it's traditional to indent a reply by starting out with a coolon. One colon for each tab (and thus for each reply-level). I took the liberty of formatting this conversation. When I joined, I found the [[Battlestar Wiki:Tutorial|tutorial]] very helpful for these kinds of things. Also, if you want to share some things about yourself, or whatever, I reccomend editing your [[User:Talos|user page]]. I always like to get to know people, but it's, of course, entirely up to you how much, if any, to share about yourself. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:36, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

== Regarding [[:Image:Mini TOS1701.jpg]] ==

Noticed the image you uploaded and have to ask, where exactly did this come from? (I wouldn't be surprised if Zoic slipped this in somewhere, seeing as they slipped in the ''Serenity''.) If you could add any pertinent info to [[:Image:Mini TOS1701.jpg]];s description page, that would be appreciated. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:26, 14 November 2005 (EST)
:I'm going to add something, I've just been busy and haven't gotten around to it. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:32, 15 November 2005 (EST)
::I went to my DVD of the Mini, and you can see the Enterprise at 2:46:40. The brightness in the picture is turned up. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:36, 15 November 2005 (EST)
:::That particular image is from the starshipbuilder.com forums. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:29, 15 November 2005 (EST)
::::I first saw it at a discussion at the Trek BBS. In case it can't be used I made a (not as good) screen capture off of my DVD. [[Image:NCC1701 Mini2.JPG|right|thumb|200px|Screenshot of USS Enterprise NCC-1701 in Battlestar Galacitica Mini-Series.]]

== Greets from a fellow (former) Cadet Captain ==

Noticed the activity on your talk page, and ran into your user page. I didn't have it on my user page, but I also held the rank of Cadet Captain back in my day. Army ROTC, Western Region, 10th "Gateway" Brigade, Bulldog Battalion (Truman State University), Bravo Company. I was CO (first semester) and XO (second semester) of Bravo, my sophomore year. Scared the heck out of my (now retired) Air Force dad (thinking that I would join), but I ended up not contracting. It still makes a nice bullet on the resume, and was a good experience. [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:47, 15 November 2005 (EST)
:Good to meet another cadet. I was only in JROTC so far but I'm considering joining NROTC when I transfer to a four year college after next year. BTW I was the Battalion S-3 of the Prince George High School "Royal" Battalion.

== Happy Belated Birthday ==

Seeing that you were panning for a greeting, I just wanted to let you know you were successful. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:25, 22 January 2006 (EST)

So did you just become a "major" or have 17-year-olds officially been out of your grasp for a full year now? :) --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 15:36, 22 January 2006 (EST)

Talk:Blackbird/Archive 1

2006-01-22T20:30:37Z

Watcher: Question, Spence

Talk:Epiphanies/Archive 1

2006-01-22T08:17:57Z

Watcher: /* And By the Way */ chortle

I got the title of episode 2.12 from: [http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/episodes/Ep%20header%20img/S2/s2guide.htm Galactica Station]. I'd put the info in an Episode Guide Template but have yet to figure it out. Please if anyone doesn't mind teaching me how to use templates I'd like to know. Please leave the advice on my talk page.--Zareck Rocks 01:40, 18 September 2005 (EDT)
:Looks fascinating, Z. I was wondering if they would really let Roslin's character just die off when she's hitting her stride...at the same time, I was hoping they wouldn't, since cancer is cancer and, when as nasty as hers, is a fatal thing. But, the Cylons are good at bioengineering, so I can swallow this--to a point. Baltar's fix would have to rebuild damaged areas with good cells as well as destroying bad cells. Hey, I'm no doctor, but that's gotta hurt somehow. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:59, 22 September 2005 (EDT)
::Current speculation is that her disease is delayed, not cured, and that she'll again be near death by the end of the season. I don't have any source on that though. The notion of the amazing Dr. Baltar discovering a ''cure for cancer'' under the circumstances of the fleet is faintly ridiculous to me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:23, 22 September 2005 (EDT)
:: I wouldn't be surprised if there were some nasty side effects from whatever treatment Baltar (or whomever) devised. The whole "we have a cure for cancer" thing would go outside the boundaries of believability and realism, which Moore and crew are aiming for. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:11, 22 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I'll agree that an outright cure for cancer is very implausible considering all the conditions the fleet is under. It would also undermine the whole prophecy that it seems that the fleet is following. Yes Cylon biotech is advanced, but the colonials barely understand it at all. I could accept them finding a treatment that buys Roslin more time, but only as long as it's clear that it isn't a permament cure. --[[User:Wingsandsword|Wingsandsword]] 12:32, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::: I'd say that was resolved, although it was a bit of a stretch...[[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 23:18, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:::: Rather eloquently stretched, at that. Seems like Cylon blood is a rather hardcore Chemo series, killing off the currently detectable malignancies. The root cause of the cancer is most likely still there, and working to re-proliferate through Roslin's system. As soon as the Cylon blood is processed and removed from her bloodstream, it should more than likely come back in full force (Which, unless I'm mistaken, takes roughly 120 days). --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 23:48, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:: I put removed from her system, and not a cure on the page.--[[User:Shane|Shane]] 23:32, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:: After listening to Ron Moore's blog, he is mentioning that Laura's character is too important for him to put on the sidelines for an illness. His initial plan was that she got weaker throughout the whole series, but felt that he didn't want her stuck in a hospital chair or whatnot. Granted the whole religious thing they say, "is that a dying leader will lead the people to salvation" is still up in the air, and I'm interested in seeing where they take it, if anywhere. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 14:20, 21 January 2006 (EST)

::: I haven't listened to the blog yet, but is it conceivable that the Cylon blood treatment itself might sicken/kill Roslin again in the long run? Perhaps the cancer is permanently gone, as was suggested by Doc Cottle. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 14:46, 21 January 2006 (EST)

==Starbuck's Viper==
Can anyone get a look at the tail number on Starbuck's viper in the opening? It looks like 8757 to me, but it could also be the previously identified [[Viper 8737]]. She identifies herself with the three digit number 049. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:32, 21 January 2006 (EST)
:I'll check, I need to get back to my Viper Cataloguing project. First, though, I need to go through all the edits made while I couldn't access the page. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:58, 21 January 2006 (EST)

==And By the Way==
I know this isn't really a discussion forum, but am I the only one who thought that this episode ''really sucked''? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:45, 21 January 2006 (EST)
:I haven't watched it yet; have it on tape. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:20, 21 January 2006 (EST)

:Thanks mostly to Roslin's miracle cure, but also to Helo and Tyrol back to work without even a whisper of a lesser charge/punishment against them, plus the sudden jump to six months after the Attack, I agree with you, Peter Farago. The only time I ever voted 2/10 on the offical website bulletin board. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 18:35, 21 January 2006 (EST).

:It certainly had some bad ''plot'' points, all of which have been stated. And I still think it would have been possible to do a cure without making it so contrived--of course it had to happen, but I don't know if it should have been the centerpiece of an episode, or at the very least needed to be resolved in the last five minutes of one. But the stuff with Baltar running around on Cloud 9 and drawing cell diagrams in his crazy notepad was pretty cool, and I loved the bit with Adar in Roslin's flashbacks. Besides, the episode was well written overall, especially the scene with Helo and Adama in the hallway. Does this excuse bad plot points that fly in the face of continuity and practically insult our intelligence? Certainly not. But I don't know if it ''sucked''. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 20:07, 21 January 2006 (EST)

:''THANK YOU!'' Somebody finally said it. Yes, Peter. This was bad. A big part of BG's allure is it's deft sidestepping of expected plot devices and its commitment to fashion realistic situations. This thing (Uatu shakes his head) was drenched in deus et machina. I, for one, don't believe Roslin should have been cured -- ''ever''. I like the character but I liked my real life friend who died also. I'm also getting a little tired of the Colonials winning so many battles against a supposedly superior enemy. It's high time, in my opinion, for the fleet to get one good, solid a** kicking. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 22:48, 21 January 2006 (EST)

: I think there was a lot of hooplah over this episode, mainly because people claimed we would get to meet the person Six was talking to after Baltar left. However, yes, this episode was a downer. It wasn't a bad 45 minutes of television -- in comparison to what is out there in the cesspool of American television -- but it wasn't the best. Actually, I think much of the Cylon peace group plot line just happened far too quickly for my taste. Also, why was Sharon stupid enough to smash her head into the glass in her cell? (Also, what is the idea of putting glass inside the cell and putting the bars on the side of the observation corridor? Gee, must be a Jammer design...) Hopefully we don't see the like of ''Epiphanies'' again... Battlestar is just too good to go down to that level. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:57, 21 January 2006 (EST)

:I had to go one step further and detail ''why'' the show sucked in the Analysis section. Do add anything else you saw as well. The Helo/Tyrol punishment didn't bother me (else, Tigh would be in irons, too ([[Resistance]])). Things were wrapped up far too quickly. And there's NO WAY that Gina can hide on that ship or be supported like that. At least, I can hardly believe it. And here she was with glasses on. For what? So her "secret identity" would be hidden? Gods...and since I was late to see it aired, I actually ''bought'' this one from iTunes. Oh, well. As Joe, said, the worst of "Battlestar" is better than other show's supposed best. Still, to take a joke from Emo Phillips: If we watched this episode while flying on a airliner, we would have to open a window to equalize the suckage. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:21, 21 January 2006 (EST)

:LOL! Oh the pain! --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:17, 22 January 2006 (EST)

Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship/Day

2006-01-22T04:01:06Z

Watcher: /* Day */ This should just about seal it fella

===[[User:Day|Day]]===
[[Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship|Back to RFA]].

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:<nowiki>Battlestar_Wiki:Requests_for_adminship/Day</nowiki>|action=edit}} Vote here] '''
'''(6/0/0) ending <nowiki>23:57</nowiki> 26 January 2006 (EST)'''

{{User|Day}} Day is by now a veteran contributor, and I have greatly appreciated his tireless efforts to improve the wiki. He is intelligent, slow to anger, an excellent communicator, and a pleasure to work with. I believe that adminstrator powers would help him further his work here, and that he would exercise such powers prudently and responsibly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:51, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:''Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:'' Er... Accept. *blush*

'''Support'''
#--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:48, 19 January 2006 (EST)
#--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:53, 19 January 2006 (EST)
#--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:14, 20 January 2006 (EST)
#--'''Support'''. Tireless, methodical, nit-picker that plays well with others. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:42, 20 January 2006 (EST)
#-- Great with the new folks, very patient and diligent. I'd be glad to see this guy made an admin. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 08:47, 20 January 2006 (EST)
#--[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 23:01, 21 January 2006 (EST)
'''Oppose'''

'''Neutral'''

'''Comments'''
* Wow. I, ah, am flattered.

'''Questions for the candidate''' 

''A few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:''
:'''1.''' What duties, if any, would you anticipate helping with? Please check out [[:Category:Project Page]]s for a list of projects.
::Well, there's Characters and Standards and Conventions, which I like working on. I also hope to help organize and contribute to an image-themed project which might be shaping up, if that get's going. I also like to see links to redirect pages eliminated and am willing to go through the "What links here" pages to make it happen.

::However, that's all stuff a normal user can do. I'm not sure, really, what I expect from admins on a Wiki, so I'm not quite sure I can say what I'd do with admin privelages/resposabilities. I've been, in the past, low level admin on a couple of MUSHes and by the time I got to that point, I had a pretty good idea of what I expected admins to do for me as a player and so I expected myself to do those things for others. Here, I guess that involves cleaning up stuff that needs deletion, identifying areas that need improvement (whether in added content or in organization) and drawing attention to those areas, and being able and available to mediate any disputes between users (including other admins).

:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions here, are there any about which you are particularly pleased, and why?
:: Well, I rather like quite a few of the images I've grabbed, especially for articles that've needed them. In particular, I guess, I like how [[:Image:Resistance-Anders Starbuck.jpg|these]] [[:Image:Tigh Me Up Tigh Me Down-Baltar Six.jpg|few]] [[:Image:Scattered-Tigh.jpg|examples]] turned out. I've done very little, in my opinion, writing for the Wiki, as far as generating new content.

:: On a less content-centered note, I've put a lot of thought and effort into the various coordinating projects around that give things a more unified feel. In particular, I'm rather proud of what we've accomplished over at [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions]].

:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
:: Only one user has ever caused me stress. I wasn't alone in being stressed by him and I was kind of on the sidelines for that one. I think most reading this will know to whom I'm referring.

:: That one incident aside, I had a bit of a difference of interpretation with Peter Farago once. I wouldn't say it caused me stress, though. Explaining my POV to him and having him explain his to me was actually kind of fun and ended up enriching (in my opinion) the [[Sacred Scrolls]] article.

:: Other places where I've had respobilities similar to what I imagine admins have here, I have been in some tight spots with people before, where I and/or another user/player has gotten upset. However, as far as I know, none of those episodes has ever ended with the other party feeling as if I'd treated them unfairly.

:: Part of that is learning to recognize when it's happenning so that you can suggest a break in order for both parties to step back and take a break. On a Wiki that's aided by the nature of how we (mostly) communicate here: it's time-delayed. Remaining objective and logical is key in sorting out disagreements that may have a tendency to become emotionally charged.

Talk:Epiphanies/Archive 1

2006-01-22T03:48:37Z

Watcher: /* And By the Way */ Hallelujah!

User talk:Durandal

2006-01-09T21:36:39Z

Watcher: /* AHHH! */

== AHHH! ==

Welcome to the Wiki. Please don't go Rampant on us. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:12, 8 January 2006 (EST)
: I was born rampant. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:15, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:Wow. And I thought I was the only one who remembered the old "Marathon" games. I still have all 3 on my Mac and play them on business trips. "Frog blast the vent core!" never sounds so sweet. You guys know that the games are free to download now? Oh, and welcome to the Wiki, Durandal! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:49, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:: Actually, I'm a 'Thon nut. My iBook is named Mjolnir X, my old *nix box is Traxus, my iPod is Leela... Need I go on? [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:15, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::Didn't this guy escape the universe and become a god or something? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 13:07, 8 January 2006 (EST)
::: Not quite a god, but close enough for colonial work. *grin* [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:15, 8 January 2006 (EST)

As any good Greco-Roman major knows, Durandal was Hector's sword at Troy, which passed down to Roland, knight of Chalemagne, in the aptly named "Song of Roland" (''Chanson de Roland''). Many of the Marathon computers had names taken from it. Bungee (the company that made Marathon) seems to agree in thinking that no one actually played these, as many plot points in Halo (also by Bungee) are kind of taken from it, i.e. (''Spoilers'') Cortana seems to be in the process of going rampant like Durandal. Sublte hints in Halo 1, full blown twist ending in Halo 2, etc. etc. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:21, 8 January 2006 (EST)
:I'm pretty sure you just made up that bit about Hector... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:30, 8 January 2006 (EST)
::I have read the Song of Roland for class. At one point they say his sword Durandal is the sword of Hector.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:02, 8 January 2006 (EST)
:I'm not all that sure that Cortana is going rampant. Just call it a gut feeling. Meanwhile, yes, Halo, no matter what Bungie says, might as well be taking place in the same universe as 'Thon. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 18:50, 8 January 2006 (EST)
::Same here, never heard about the Hector's sword connection to the Song of Roland. I named my son Roland and the wild thing is, according to my ex-mother-in-law's genealogy, he actually is a Charlemagne descendant. I have to verify the source on that one, but ''whew''... :) He's going to get a COOL present from Museum Replicas for his 18th birthday, I think... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:05, 8 January 2006 (EST)

: I always thought that Halo was kind of, well, maybe Marathon's grandson or so... Same genes, similar upbringing, a bit younger and fresher. ;) The real key is this: Find all the Marathon logos hidden all around the game. And by hidden I mean, like, emblazoned on the side of ''Pillar of Autumn'' and on the end of the Captain's pipe in the opening of Halo 1. By the by... What's with Bungee and ship names? It makes sense for the Covenant to have wacky ship names that reek of religeous overtones, but... ''Pillar of Autumn''? ''In Amber Clad''? Are these literary allusions that I'm missing or something? --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:26, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::What? It sounds nice and poetic. ''Frank Exchange of Views'' would have been nice, or ''Under New Management'', and why not the ever popular ''Lollipop''?--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:18, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::: I shall christen my flag ship ''Ricimer's Wit'' ... nearly as good as naming it ''Sabre''. *wink* Speaking of ship names that are also valid sentence constituents, the [http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forum/ message board] for [http://www.kerberos-productions.com/sots.shtml Sword of the Stars] (a 4X game to be released in the somewhat near future) has some [http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=128&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 interesting ideas]. We're getting very side-tracked. Heh. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:29, 9 January 2006 (EST)

:::: Oh - my - god. Ric made a funny. That's it. I can die now. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 16:36, 9 January 2006 (EST)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Requested Images

2006-01-08T19:31:15Z

Watcher: /* Thrace's Surgical Debut */

Six's glowey-spine bit from miniseries now uploaded as 6spine-ms.jpg.
[[Image:6spine-ms.jpg]]

Do with it what you will

[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:59, 8 January 2006 (EST)

==Thrace's Surgical Debut==

Good luck on this one. I of course could be wrong, but from what I can tell, that impression the viewer gets of Starbuck hacking the Raider's brains out is a product of the magic of modern cinematography and editing. The one shot I did find shows nothing but two gloved hands (one holding a blurred blade) hovering above an indistinct pink and red blob.
As far as the tighter headshots of the known Humano-Cylons, I could... well.. if ya want I can take what we've got into Photoshop, do my voodoo, and re-upload. Is that what you really want? --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 14:31, 8 January 2006 (EST)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Requested Images

2006-01-08T19:22:38Z

Watcher:

Talk:Resurrection Ship, Part I/Archive 1

2006-01-07T07:17:06Z

Watcher: Die Cast or Plastic?

For source: http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/article.php?Article=1497

[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 17:09, 8 Jul 2005 (EDT)
* http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/article.php?Article=1756 [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 20:03, 19 September 2005 (EDT)

==Director==
[[Wikipedia:Alan Smithee|Alan Smithee]] is not a real person. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:26, 16 November 2005 (EST)
*Just a joke placeholder name; other pages had "suchandsuch" and "whoisit" etc for stuff so I just put in a placeholder. Besides, Mr. Smithee has brought us such wonderful works as the ''excellent'' 1984 adaptation of "Dune" and the animated 1978 Lord of the Rings. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:32, 16 November 2005 (EST)
::I think we should leave it blank until we know. What if a director really wants his name removed from an episode at some point? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:16, 17 November 2005 (EST)

:::Reminds me of this Eric Idle movie "Burn Hollywood Burn"; basically, he's the director of what's going to be the biggest movie of the decade...and also the biggest flop. It's got a gigantic special effects budget (like 3 disaster movies and 3 action movies roled into one). It's called "Trio" and it stars the action 'trio' of Slyvester Stallone, Jackie Chan, and Whoopi Goldberg (I kid you not, they actually appear in this thing; yeah, a gun-toting Whoopi Goldberg). Well, the idea behind "Allen Smithee" is it's an unusual made up name no one would really have, so that when a hollywood studio so butchers a director's project that it is A) not his creative vision at all and he was completely cut off from it and B) it would be career suicide to be associated with such a flop. Eric Idle's character the director of Trio who really has no control over it whatsover as the studio writers and execs are calling the shots (they put him in charge of camerawork and little else), so when he finally sees the finished rough cut he declares "It's worse than Showgirls!" and demands for it to be an "Allen Smithee production". Problem is, through blind luck Eric Idle's character's ''real'' name is "Allen Smithee"! And according to the director's guild rules the only name you can replace as director for the film is "Allen Smithee". So he goes berserk and steals the rough cuts of the film and hides them so the film can never be shown (it was a movie-in-a-movie thing about everyone trying to get the movie back). Dear god, the descriptions of "Trio" were like sitting in on a Berman and Braga writing session; Whoopi and Jackie's characters die in the end, while Stallone's character gets a sex change. However, Jackie Chan was so adamant that in his movies his character ''never'' dies that eventually they compromised by saying that his character does die, but gets ''reincarnated''. Sort of like the old "We can never have enough time travel or parallel universes on Star Trek!" routine they pulled on us.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:17, 17 November 2005 (EST)

==New Template==

Oh, that thing is SAWEEET! --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 18:06, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:Ain't it? Thank Joe--it was a last minute project he launched on us today. We've all been tinkering the afternoon away with it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:50, 6 January 2006 (EST)

== Speculation ==

Could the "Resurection Ship" refer to a ship where the conciousness of [[Humano-Cylons]] are transferred into new bodies? --[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 21:58, 6 January 2006 (EST)
:Welcome to the Wiki. I'm sorry, but we have known this for months. Please check around --23:32, 6 January 2006 (EST)
::Actually, looking at this [[Talk:Pegasus_(episode)|talk page]], the suggestion was merely speculation; this episode confirmed it. It's a valid question. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 02:07, 7 January 2006 (EST)

==Analysis not Review==
''(Text from Analysis moved by Ricimer deleted for brevity of the talk page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]])''

"Analysis" is for making detailed, '''point by point''' observations, criticisms, speculations etc. It is not a "Review", which is more what you wrote seems like. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:13, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:I considered your viewpoint after huffing about this emotionally at first, then having a beer. Then I reverted your edit, Ricimer. For one, such analyses are prevalent throughout the episode pages. I made a similar analysis on "Final Cut" if memory serves and yet this did sit well with others. Analyses like this cannot HELP but take on a singular viewpoint at first. But, as others edit it, it will take on the consensus viewpoint. An analysis like this also gets the conversation started. If you see something noted that did not happen, by all means do remove or modify it and perhaps add your take on it too. "Battlestar Galactica" is fiction, not fact--an analysis here ''is '' by function, a review. Allow others to add, modify, or delete their 2 cents to my 2 cents on the episode before making such a dramatic edit (which, if you reread, does not contain any speculation but a take on what was seen). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:35, 7 January 2006 (EST)

::Beer's a wonderful thing ain't it? --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 00:40, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:::Actually I prefer stims, they take the edge off. Actually, I was observing good etiquette for moving something I questioned to the talk page rather than deleting it out of hand. I have done nothing outrageous. Upon further thought, I guess it can stay. I will make my own comments under "Analysis" as I get to them. As you were, 5x5. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:46, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:::Breaking it down into bullet points would be nice, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:42, 7 January 2006 (EST)

::::I agree; this was my biggest complaint, yet I did not want to be so presumptuous as to ''change'' things Spencerian had actually written by adding in ''my own'' bulleted points (putting words in his mouth as it were, much worse than moving to talk page). Punch this up if at all possible with some handy bullet points. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:46, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:::::In the future, you shouldn't hesitate. Constructive modifications are much better than deleting useful content outright. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:58, 7 January 2006 (EST)
::::::I am sorry. I thought the one was more offensive than the other. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:06, 7 January 2006 (EST)

==General Comments==

Wow. Did anyone else find Kara and Cain's relationship kind of spooky? I'd like to make mention of their connection on the page but I'm not sure how to word it... --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 00:24, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:Yes. Remember that Kara has issues of violence of her own. It's what makes her a strong pilot, but she is mentally, a barely caged psyche. At the same time, she may have been going along with Cain, realizing she's a nut. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:35, 7 January 2006 (EST)

::Disagree. That chick was gettin' sucked in like nobody's business. (If she wasn't why would/will she speak so kindly of Cain at her coming funeral?) --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 00:44, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:::I don't think it's so much "spooky" from what I've seeen; simply, Starbuck is drunk on the idea of going back to Caprica; Cain read the logs, she knew about this ALREADY, Cain knew what strings to pull to win Starbuck over to her side. Battlefield promotion and a ''token'' compromise (returning Apollo to flight status) didn't hurt either (like Cain would ground ANY able-bodied pilots, much less Apollo whose one of their best, before quite possibly the biggest attack EVER made against the Cylons). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:48, 7 January 2006 (EST)

::::Yep. That does sound like Cain. At first I didn't want to give her credit for those kind of tactical chops because of her (in the end) self-destructive tendencies (much like Starbuck BTW), but... who am I kiddin'? She's a pitbull. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 00:57, 7 January 2006 (EST)

==Die Cast or Plastic?==

Apparently Galactica has a small contingent of bored, fugitive employees of Revell on board... 'cuz they sure as heck had shiny new models of both the Blackbird and the R.S. on hand in short order. And just in time for that military strategy session. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 02:17, 7 January 2006 (EST)

Talk:Blackbird/Archive 1

2006-01-07T05:59:22Z

Watcher: /* FTL Drive */

Talk:Resurrection Ship, Part I/Archive 1

2006-01-07T05:57:03Z

Watcher: /* General Comments */

For source: http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/article.php?Article=1497

[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 17:09, 8 Jul 2005 (EDT)
* http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/article.php?Article=1756 [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 20:03, 19 September 2005 (EDT)

==Director==
[[Wikipedia:Alan Smithee|Alan Smithee]] is not a real person. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:26, 16 November 2005 (EST)
*Just a joke placeholder name; other pages had "suchandsuch" and "whoisit" etc for stuff so I just put in a placeholder. Besides, Mr. Smithee has brought us such wonderful works as the ''excellent'' 1984 adaptation of "Dune" and the animated 1978 Lord of the Rings. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:32, 16 November 2005 (EST)
::I think we should leave it blank until we know. What if a director really wants his name removed from an episode at some point? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:16, 17 November 2005 (EST)

:::Reminds me of this Eric Idle movie "Burn Hollywood Burn"; basically, he's the director of what's going to be the biggest movie of the decade...and also the biggest flop. It's got a gigantic special effects budget (like 3 disaster movies and 3 action movies roled into one). It's called "Trio" and it stars the action 'trio' of Slyvester Stallone, Jackie Chan, and Whoopi Goldberg (I kid you not, they actually appear in this thing; yeah, a gun-toting Whoopi Goldberg). Well, the idea behind "Allen Smithee" is it's an unusual made up name no one would really have, so that when a hollywood studio so butchers a director's project that it is A) not his creative vision at all and he was completely cut off from it and B) it would be career suicide to be associated with such a flop. Eric Idle's character the director of Trio who really has no control over it whatsover as the studio writers and execs are calling the shots (they put him in charge of camerawork and little else), so when he finally sees the finished rough cut he declares "It's worse than Showgirls!" and demands for it to be an "Allen Smithee production". Problem is, through blind luck Eric Idle's character's ''real'' name is "Allen Smithee"! And according to the director's guild rules the only name you can replace as director for the film is "Allen Smithee". So he goes berserk and steals the rough cuts of the film and hides them so the film can never be shown (it was a movie-in-a-movie thing about everyone trying to get the movie back). Dear god, the descriptions of "Trio" were like sitting in on a Berman and Braga writing session; Whoopi and Jackie's characters die in the end, while Stallone's character gets a sex change. However, Jackie Chan was so adamant that in his movies his character ''never'' dies that eventually they compromised by saying that his character does die, but gets ''reincarnated''. Sort of like the old "We can never have enough time travel or parallel universes on Star Trek!" routine they pulled on us.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:17, 17 November 2005 (EST)

==New Template==

Oh, that thing is SAWEEET! --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 18:06, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:Ain't it? Thank Joe--it was a last minute project he launched on us today. We've all been tinkering the afternoon away with it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:50, 6 January 2006 (EST)

== Speculation ==

Could the "Resurection Ship" refer to a ship where the conciousness of [[Humano-Cylons]] are transferred into new bodies? --[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 21:58, 6 January 2006 (EST)
:Welcome to the Wiki. I'm sorry, but we have known this for months. Please check around --23:32, 6 January 2006 (EST)

==Analysis not Review==
''(Text from Analysis moved by Ricimer deleted for brevity of the talk page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]])''

"Analysis" is for making detailed, '''point by point''' observations, criticisms, speculations etc. It is not a "Review", which is more what you wrote seems like. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:13, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:I considered your viewpoint after huffing about this emotionally at first, then having a beer. Then I reverted your edit, Ricimer. For one, such analyses are prevalent throughout the episode pages. I made a similar analysis on "Final Cut" if memory serves and yet this did sit well with others. Analyses like this cannot HELP but take on a singular viewpoint at first. But, as others edit it, it will take on the consensus viewpoint. An analysis like this also gets the conversation started. If you see something noted that did not happen, by all means do remove or modify it and perhaps add your take on it too. "Battlestar Galactica" is fiction, not fact--an analysis here ''is '' by function, a review. Allow others to add, modify, or delete their 2 cents to my 2 cents on the episode before making such a dramatic edit (which, if you reread, does not contain any speculation but a take on what was seen). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:35, 7 January 2006 (EST)

::Beer's a wonderful thing ain't it? --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 00:40, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:::Actually I prefer stims, they take the edge off. Actually, I was observing good etiquette for moving something I questioned to the talk page rather than deleting it out of hand. I have done nothing outrageous. Upon further thought, I guess it can stay. I will make my own comments under "Analysis" as I get to them. As you were, 5x5. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:46, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:::Breaking it down into bullet points would be nice, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:42, 7 January 2006 (EST)

::::I agree; this was my biggest complaint, yet I did not want to be so presumptuous as to ''change'' things Spencerian had actually written by adding in ''my own'' bulleted points (putting words in his mouth as it were, much worse than moving to talk page). Punch this up if at all possible with some handy bullet points. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:46, 7 January 2006 (EST)

==General Comments==

Wow. Did anyone else find Kara and Cain's relationship kind of spooky? I'd like to make mention of their connection on the page but I'm not sure how to word it... --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 00:24, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:Yes. Remember that Kara has issues of violence of her own. It's what makes her a strong pilot, but she is mentally, a barely caged psyche. At the same time, she may have been going along with Cain, realizing she's a nut. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:35, 7 January 2006 (EST)

::Disagree. That chick was gettin' sucked in like nobody's business. (If she wasn't why would/will she speak so kindly of Cain at her coming funeral?) --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 00:44, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:::I don't think it's so much "spooky" from what I've seeen; simply, Starbuck is drunk on the idea of going back to Caprica; Cain read the logs, she knew about this ALREADY, Cain knew what strings to pull to win Starbuck over to her side. Battlefield promotion and a ''token'' compromise (returning Apollo to flight status) didn't hurt either (like Cain would ground ANY able-bodied pilots, much less Apollo whose one of their best, before quite possibly the biggest attack EVER made against the Cylons). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:48, 7 January 2006 (EST)

::::Yep. That does sound like Cain. At first I didn't want to give her credit for those kind of tactical chops because of her (in the end) self-destructive tendencies (much like Starbuck BTW), but... who am I kiddin'? She's a pitbull. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 00:57, 7 January 2006 (EST)

Talk:Resurrection Ship, Part I/Archive 1

2006-01-07T05:44:55Z

Watcher: /* General Comments */

For source: http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/article.php?Article=1497

[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 17:09, 8 Jul 2005 (EDT)
* http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/article.php?Article=1756 [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 20:03, 19 September 2005 (EDT)

==Director==
[[Wikipedia:Alan Smithee|Alan Smithee]] is not a real person. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:26, 16 November 2005 (EST)
*Just a joke placeholder name; other pages had "suchandsuch" and "whoisit" etc for stuff so I just put in a placeholder. Besides, Mr. Smithee has brought us such wonderful works as the ''excellent'' 1984 adaptation of "Dune" and the animated 1978 Lord of the Rings. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:32, 16 November 2005 (EST)
::I think we should leave it blank until we know. What if a director really wants his name removed from an episode at some point? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:16, 17 November 2005 (EST)

:::Reminds me of this Eric Idle movie "Burn Hollywood Burn"; basically, he's the director of what's going to be the biggest movie of the decade...and also the biggest flop. It's got a gigantic special effects budget (like 3 disaster movies and 3 action movies roled into one). It's called "Trio" and it stars the action 'trio' of Slyvester Stallone, Jackie Chan, and Whoopi Goldberg (I kid you not, they actually appear in this thing; yeah, a gun-toting Whoopi Goldberg). Well, the idea behind "Allen Smithee" is it's an unusual made up name no one would really have, so that when a hollywood studio so butchers a director's project that it is A) not his creative vision at all and he was completely cut off from it and B) it would be career suicide to be associated with such a flop. Eric Idle's character the director of Trio who really has no control over it whatsover as the studio writers and execs are calling the shots (they put him in charge of camerawork and little else), so when he finally sees the finished rough cut he declares "It's worse than Showgirls!" and demands for it to be an "Allen Smithee production". Problem is, through blind luck Eric Idle's character's ''real'' name is "Allen Smithee"! And according to the director's guild rules the only name you can replace as director for the film is "Allen Smithee". So he goes berserk and steals the rough cuts of the film and hides them so the film can never be shown (it was a movie-in-a-movie thing about everyone trying to get the movie back). Dear god, the descriptions of "Trio" were like sitting in on a Berman and Braga writing session; Whoopi and Jackie's characters die in the end, while Stallone's character gets a sex change. However, Jackie Chan was so adamant that in his movies his character ''never'' dies that eventually they compromised by saying that his character does die, but gets ''reincarnated''. Sort of like the old "We can never have enough time travel or parallel universes on Star Trek!" routine they pulled on us.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:17, 17 November 2005 (EST)

==New Template==

Oh, that thing is SAWEEET! --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 18:06, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:Ain't it? Thank Joe--it was a last minute project he launched on us today. We've all been tinkering the afternoon away with it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:50, 6 January 2006 (EST)

== Speculation ==

Could the "Resurection Ship" refer to a ship where the conciousness of [[Humano-Cylons]] are transferred into new bodies? --[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 21:58, 6 January 2006 (EST)
:Welcome to the Wiki. I'm sorry, but we have known this for months. Please check around --23:32, 6 January 2006 (EST)

==Analysis not Review==
''(Text from Analysis moved by Ricimer deleted for brevity of the talk page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]])''

"Analysis" is for making detailed, '''point by point''' observations, criticisms, speculations etc. It is not a "Review", which is more what you wrote seems like. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:13, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:I considered your viewpoint after huffing about this emotionally at first, then having a beer. Then I reverted your edit, Ricimer. For one, such analyses are prevalent throughout the episode pages. I made a similar analysis on "Final Cut" if memory serves and yet this did sit well with others. Analyses like this cannot HELP but take on a singular viewpoint at first. But, as others edit it, it will take on the consensus viewpoint. An analysis like this also gets the conversation started. If you see something noted that did not happen, by all means do remove or modify it and perhaps add your take on it too. "Battlestar Galactica" is fiction, not fact--an analysis here ''is '' by function, a review. Allow others to add, modify, or delete their 2 cents to my 2 cents on the episode before making such a dramatic edit (which, if you reread, does not contain any speculation but a take on what was seen). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:35, 7 January 2006 (EST)

::Beer's a wonderful thing ain't it? --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 00:40, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:::Breaking it down into bullet points would be nice, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:42, 7 January 2006 (EST)

==General Comments==

Wow. Did anyone else find Kara and Cain's relationship kind of spooky? I'd like to make mention of their connection on the page but I'm not sure how to word it... --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 00:24, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:Yes. Remember that Kara has issues of violence of her own. It's what makes her a strong pilot, but she is mentally, a barely caged psyche. At the same time, she may have been going along with Cain, realizing she's a nut. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:35, 7 January 2006 (EST)

::Disagree. That chick was gettin' sucked in like nobody's business. (If she wasn't why would/will she speak so kindly of Cain at her coming funeral?) --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 00:44, 7 January 2006 (EST)

Talk:Resurrection Ship, Part I/Archive 1

2006-01-07T05:40:24Z

Watcher: /* Analysis not Review */

Resurrection Ship, Part I

2006-01-07T05:27:01Z

Watcher:

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:resurrection1teaser.jpg|200px]]
| Title=Resurrection Ship, Part I
| Series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| Season=2
| Episode=11
| Guests=[[Michelle Forbes]]
| Writer=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Story=[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Anne+Cofell Anne Cofell Sanders]
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate=January 6, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Prev=[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
| Next=[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A military power struggle threatens to escalate into all-out war as the Battlestars Galactica and Pegasus attempt to join forces to destroy a critical Cylon target: a “Resurrection” ship.''

== Summary ==
*[[Kara Thrace]] flies in behind the Cylon fleet following ''Galactica.'' The stealth features of the [[Blackbird]] allow her to fly to and within the superstructure of the [[Unknown Cylon Ship]], taking pictures along the way. Just before leaving the superstructure, she [[FTL|Jumps]] away to safety and the [[Fleet]].
*[Thrace returns from her unsanctioned reconnaissance of the Cylon fleet in the middle of Adama and Cain's standoff, with recon images of the [[Unknown Cylon Ship]]. Her return appears on [[DRADIS]] as a [[Raider]] and causes Viper squadrons from both ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' to stop a deadly game of "chicken", with neither side firing unless fired upon.
*Thrace downloads her incredibly detailed pictures of the Unknown Cylon Ship. A closeup shows Cylon bodies, including several inactive copies of the agent known as [[Number Six#Gina|Gina]].
*After being grilled for their near-disasterous action on ''[[Colonial One]]'' by President [[Laura Roslin]], Adama and Cain agree to a truce while they prepare a joint attack on the Cylon fleet.
*Roslin warns Adama that Cain is a loose cannon, who must be killed in order to save the [[Fleet]] from annihilation. Adama is surprised at Roslin's candor, and is reluctant to consider the idea.
*Adama learns that the ''Pegasus'' was also shepherding a civilian fleet, which it abandoned months ago, but not before stripping it of anything useful, including FTL drives, spare parts, and people. Cain threatened to shoot the families of individuals she selected that would not leave with ''Pegasus.''
*[[Gaius Baltar]] speaks more with [[Number Six#Gina|Gina]], who wants Baltar to kill her so she can free herself from her tortureous existance. He tells her that she cannot die as her consciousness would only download into another [[Humano-Cylon|Cylon body]]. Seeing the copies of reconnaissance photos Baltar is carrying, Gina says she would die if his Fleet destroys the Unknown ship.
*Baltar briefs Adama and Cain: The ship is known as the Resurrection Ship. Its function is to allow Cylon agents a place where their consciousness can download, as an agent in the Fleet would be too far from the Cylon homeworld for their consciousness to return. Cain quickly surmises that, without the Resurrection Ship, the few agents remaining would be permanently gone, perhaps more reluctant to complete their respective missions.
*Laura Roslin's illness is now more visibly apparent. William Adama visits her, and the two have a most unusual, even sentimental talk, with humor about getting a fresh, young Cylon body replacement for Roslin. Adama smiles and says that he couldn't think of her as a blonde, but Roslin smiles and says he'd be surprised.
*Cain finds Thrace's initiative intriguing, and promotes her to Captain and assigns her as ''Pegasus'' [[CAG]]. She initially pulls [[Lee Adama]]'s flight status, but Thrace successfully asks for young Adama to be on her team. Thrace begins plans on an attack on the Resurrection Ship.
*[[Helo]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] are pleasantly surprised not to be dead. Lee Adama visits the two and catches them up on events, noting that his father pulled out the stops to ensure Helo's and Tyrol's survival.
*Thrace briefs the battlestar commanders on the attack plan. Adama consults with Thrace privately, asking her to shoot Cain in the head after the attack. Likewise, Cain instructs [[Jack Fisk]] to shoot Adama and his command after the attack after she transfers Fisk and a squad of Marines loyal to her to ''Galactica.''

== Questions ==
* Why doesn't Cain and her crew grasp the concept that survival of the human race supersedes the military way of life?
* Why would Cain consider a return to the Colonies to attack the Cylons when she's hopelessly outnumbered?
* If Dr. [[Cottle]] were to perform a psychological examination on Cain, could Adama strip her of command for medical reasons?
**Adama could have just had Roslin strip her of her rank because she's Commander-in-Chief; it doesn't matter: Cain's hold over Pegasus is so tight it would be fluffed off. Also, Cain is not clinically insane. It's not just "insane" humans who do evil things in wartime. Cain does bad things, and she doesn't have the excuse of not being in command of her mental faculties.
* Has Roslin's illness has brought her to terminally important attitudes on life and death? Unlike the option to kill the prisoners on the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' ([[Miniseries]]), Roslin does not hesitate to suggest to Adama to kill Cain.

== Analysis ==
This episode fails to skip a beat from the mid-season closer. With ''Galactica's'' and ''Pegasus''' Vipers in a scary game of chicken, the level of tension borders on the "fish in a blender" scenario.

Admiral Cain is clearly showing signs of stress indicative of some kind of sociopathic disorder; her orders and desire to follow the military way overshadow any compassion or understanding of the reality of her situation. She fails to understand that killing Helo and Tyrol worsens the Fleet, as she cannot simply find a suitable replacement.

The star of this show, albeit briefly appearing, is Mary McDonnell's Roslin. Like her namesake Blackbird itself, Roslin shows her toughness in staring down Cain ''and'' Adama, who actually looks ''ashamed'' in his actions while Roslin reads both "the riot act." Were not for the situation, Roslin's second talk with Adama, maybe the first time that Roslin does not appear with Adama in regular clothing, very casual, and obviously ill, seemed more like two old friends. Adama does something viewers have rarely seen with Roslin--his face relaxes and shows humor, sympathy, perhaps even sadness at Roslin's illness and her strength in looking her illness in the face and denying it anyway. He offers his hand and she accepts with a squeeze before she leaves. It seems in this moment that Roslin and Adama exchanged more romantic chemistry than the writer's attempts to do the same with Adama's son and Kara Thrace.

Baltar was generally neutral in this episode, playing both sides, Adama and Cain, Colonial and Cylon, to the advantage of all. His motives in saving Gina are still in doubt, and viewers are likely to see more development here.

Pilot [[Louanne Katraine]] has apparently got her groove back from "[[Final Cut]]", appearing to have become the lead pilot on ''Galactica'' (with Thrace's transfer) and becoming the top bird in their game of chicken with ''Pegasus''' pilots. She's confident, flying well, and has an itchy firing trigger finger.

Viewers are likely more interested not in the upcoming battle, now a more evenly matched fight between Colonial and Cylon (all things considered--[[basestar]]s generate Raiders like rabbits generate offspring), but in the battle for control of the Fleet, with both Adama and Cain performing similar strategies to kill the other.

===Goofs===
*Cain wonders if debating morality is what Roslin and Adama have been doing "for the past six months"; however, as explained in the [[Timeline (RDM)]], this episode only takes place roughly ''three'' months after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. Specifically, the beginning of "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]" took place 30 days after "[[Resistance]]", when the crashed Raptor team returned from Kobol, which only took place few days after Day 51 (the last time we see a time explicitly given on screen, in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]". In "Flight of the Phoenix", Roslin was told that her cancer had advanced its rate of progression, and she had only a month to live ''at the most''. The idea that the episode "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]])" (which took place immediatly before this one) took place ''three months'' after "Flight of the Phoenix" thus seems entirely impossible, and this line should be regarded as a goof.

== Notes ==

* Admiral Cain promotes Kara Thrace to the rank of captain. She replaces Stinger as '''Pegasus'''' CAG.
* The Cylon fleet containing the [[Resurrection Ship]] has been following the [[Fleet|Colonial Fleet]]. It was speculated that the Resurrection Ship was a safety net for any Cylons who died in the Fleet.
** Logically, it follows that the copy of [[Leoben Conoy]] [[Flesh and Bone|previously discovered]] in the Fleet had his consciousness downloaded to this ship.
* During the closing R&D production company animation, in which David Eick is sliced in two by a bolt of lightning, House Resolution 2995 of the 109th Congress is mentioned in a news ticker. The resolution, introduced June 27, 2005, involves the creation of a "Weather Modification Operations and Research Board." Source: [http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-2995 GovTrack]

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

== Statistics ==

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category: A to Z]]

Talk:Blackbird/Archive 1

2006-01-07T04:56:07Z

Watcher: /* FTL Drive */

Talk:Resurrection Ship/Archive 1

2006-01-07T04:27:31Z

Watcher:

I thought that the unknown cylon ship was shaped like a taurus? The ship that Starbuck took photos of in the blackbird was definintly not the same ship that was seen in Cain's earlier recon photos. Is this a completley different ship? Or did the writers just change the design of it because they didnt like the donut shaped one? --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 23:19, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:Good question. That original shot in Pegasus looked different to me too. If you listen to the podcast for this episode it only gets more confusing. RDM says that the design for the Reurrection Ship was finalized quite a while back. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 23:27, 6 January 2006 (EST)

User talk:Kraetos

2006-01-07T04:22:18Z

Watcher:

Howdy, BMS. Looks like no one's welcomed you yet so I'll do the honors. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 23:22, 6 January 2006 (EST)

Talk:Blackbird/Archive 1

2006-01-07T04:03:02Z

Watcher: /* FTL Drive */

Talk:Blackbird/Archive 1

2006-01-07T04:00:08Z

Watcher:

Talk:Resurrection Ship, Part I/Archive 1

2006-01-06T23:06:14Z

Watcher:

Talk:Gaius Baltar/Archive 1

2006-01-06T15:30:28Z

Watcher: /* A Friendly Wager, Spencerian */ Ellen

== You Heard It Here First (I think) ==

Things are just adding up too well in my mind that Baltar is now a Cylon. Consider his uncanny tendency to sense what turn out to be other Cylons (Doral, Boomer). I added speculation on this based on past events. In particular, a nuclear blast of the type that leveled his home would cut both Six's and his body to shreds--her body was far from sufficient protection. Remember that such a blast turns ''everything'' (rocks, metal, wood) into a wall of death that bludgeons all, like a volcanic pyroclastic flow. Consider that we see Baltar relatively unscathed after this, with no explanation of his escape. This is a serious matter to consider since we must remember that the TOS Baltar actually joined the Cylons, becoming a commander, and became more than a mere traitor. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:16, 2 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Peter Virago has a good point where we should ask, if Baltar is a Humano-Cylon, why does she protect Baltar from the nuclear blast at his home in the first place?

Answer: For appearances. Remember that the information of a Humano-Cylon's brain is transmitted to another copy. Since a Baltar clone would need to keep a contiinuous memory (fragmented briefly by blind terror in escaping the area), it would be a simple matter to have a new copy of Baltar "wake up" with minor wounds, where his natural tendency to be chickenshit would have him run with the rest of the groups. For Six's aims, Baltar may need to continually reminded that he is human and never reveal what might be his true nature. A lot of things that the Humano-Cylons do seems to be for show, to drive or manipulate the remaining humans, rather than killing them outright. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:22, 3 Aug 2005 (EDT)
::OK. Feldspar makes the most convincing argument against the possibility of Baltar being a Cylon. It still doesn't eliminate the thought, however. Remember that Baltar's chain has been pulled this way and that. The idea that he is still human may also be an illusion to both the viewer and him. Remember that Galactica Boomer was just all happy and thought she, too, was an ordinary human, and look how that turned out. Despite what Six shows him in terms of a baby, it may still be a deception as a process of brainwashing his consciousness to work as a Cylon agent. I don't believe that Cylons want to make human/Cylon hybrids the default: they just need human DNA to get started on their own. Hopefully we'll get some kind of resolution to this one in this season. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:48, 22 Aug 2005 (EDT)

== Now THIS deserves Quality Article status ==

Mq59's addition of a publicity photo of James Callis' incredibly "crazy look" as Baltar, along with Day's and other recent edits have really refined this page. The page is very close to perfect in format, standards, sources, and balanced speculation. This is a good example of how other character articles should resemble. Thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:11, 5 January 2006 (EST)

:Right, but we still don't know how that stupid "quality article" template works, and the [[Help:Template]] page isn't very instructive. Back on topic though, I do like the article. Nice balance of the pictures. I agree with the new "crazy pic". Do the parenthetical citations need quotes, though ("[[Gaius Baltar#Arrival of Pegasus|Gaius Baltar]]")? Otherwise, I can't find any other nits to pick offhand. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:20, 5 January 2006 (EST)

::Well, of course, like others here I view the entire "could Baltar be a Cylon?" arguement as insanity, but much of that same article also gives much evidence of how he ''couldn't be''; regardless, it's a fine article. I'm not one to use the phrase "slam dunk" lightly, but this page...--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:04, 5 January 2006 (EST)

:::Just you wait, Ricimer, I will be proved right in the end about Baltar, even if we have to waltz through Season 5 to find out! I did try to keep the Baltar-the-Cylon section balanced, so thanks for the nit-pick. On quotes within parentheses: No, we generally don't use them unless:

:::* The items are in a sentence format within, such as here ([[Miniseries]], "[[Valley of Darkness]]", "[[Scattered]]"). Quotes should not be used in single episode notations as shown here ([[Fragged]]). When "Miniseries" is single-noted, it should not have quotes as it's not an episode name ''per se''.
:::* A certain emphasis or ''sic'' implication is needed to note an important variation. In SV's example, "Pegasus" was in quotes within ()s to differentiate it from the battlestar article. I don't know if this particular practice was made convention, but I use it, and for this episode wikilink only.

:::Yeah, it will be nice once we get that Quality Template working, but yes, it should be reserved for the best o f the best, and hopefully, we can update the Main Page to show the article and give it a look like Wikipedia to highlight them or an Article of the Day. '''''T-Minus 28 hours and counting...''''' --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:25, 5 January 2006 (EST)

Thanks, but I didn't upload the Crazy Baltar photo. I made some grammatical corrections, smoothed out some things, and included Baltar manhandling of Cally when she tried to blackmail him as a pre-Tyrol example of Baltar's new willingness to physically hurt others.

[[User:mq59|mq59]] 20:15, 5 January 2006 (EST)

: There ''is'' a [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions#Links to Episodes|Convention]] on episode names and citations. You can find it afore-linked, but, just to paraphrase it, if it's a parenthetical citation, then it goes like this: <nowiki>([[Episode Name]])</nowiki>. Notice the following period. If it's within a sentence it should be put in quotations, thus: Blah blah as seen in <nowiki>"[[Episode Name]]"</nowiki> when et cetera. We don't have a specific case for parenthetical lists or for the Mini, but I think Spence's gut feeling is probably good. I'll try to remember to start a discussion about it on the [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions|S&C Talk]] tomorrow. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:59, 6 January 2006 (EST)

::I shouldn't post this here, but I just want to note that I dislike quotes when multiple-noting. They add clutter and don't really improve clarity or readability. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:04, 6 January 2006 (EST)

==A Friendly Wager, Spencerian==

Spencerian, you are adamant that the evidence points towards Baltar being a Cylon. I, however, firmly believe that the many facts, points of evidence, and conjecture, etc. already posted up in counterarguements on this article makes it '''impossible''' for Baltar to be a Cylon. (Note that it isn't simply "my gut feeling"; I believe that, logically, the evidence points against it). -->Our edits on BattlestarWiki, in the Question and Analysis sections in the episode guide, and in checking and comparing various points and theories on the other articles (involving Cylons, timeline, etc, etc.) are based on such debate over the facts.-->'''I believe that this debate forms a macrocosm of this in its most concentrated form, a logical edit debate, based on facts and points of evidence (rather than flame war and childish name calling). '''In short, I view it as the ultimate test, of our skills, our ability to make good conjecture based on evidence at hand, comparing points and counterpoints'''.--->As a result Spencerian''', because we hold these polar opposite views on this matter, I propose the following gentlemanly wager; [U]If Baltar is proved to or revealed to be a Cylon, your edits will hold precedence over anything I write '''in perpetuity'''. If Baltar is proven beyond any resonable doubt to be a Human and ''not'' a Cylon, ''my'' edits will hold precendence over anything you write '''in perpetuity'''.[/U]
:For example, conditions under which Ricimer wins this wager are:
*The remaining six humanoid Cylon models are eventually revealed, and we see that NONE of the 12 models are Gaius Baltar.
*Gaius Baltar fathers a child with a humanoid Cylon: It has been established that it is '''impossible''' for two humanoid Cylons to procreate.

:Conditions under which Spencerian wins this wager are:
*When all 12 humanoid Cylon models are revealed, one of them turns out to be Baltar.
(Please add any conditions for either side which I may have forgotten).
-->'''Do you accept, Spencerian? Or are you unsure of your position in this matter? Speaking for myself, my belief that Baltar is ''not'' a Cylon is unwavering. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:59, 5 January 2006 (EST)

:I like the wager, but your stakes are not appropriate. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:44, 5 January 2006 (EST)
::What would be? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]]

:::I like the wager, too, but I wouldn't want to take precidence over your (or anyone's) edits. In fact, we all hold that power (admin rights notwithstanding, which cannot be transferred or neglected). I'd sooner buy you something else: [http://www.squaremodels.com/minigfed.html This model of the battlestar.] Or, perhaps send you a small sum to buy the beer of your choice (assuming you are 21+), or a $10 gift certificate to the iTunes Music Store (sorry, you'd have to furnish your own iPod). I will make the choice of the prize depending on my budget at the time--sorry, but the wiki's admin wages are a bit low to go crazy... :)

:::You DO realize that I added or enhanced many of the counterarguments as well as the arguments in the very section, ''right?'' Even if Starbuck, say, turned up pregnant, does that necessarily mean that Baltar is a human? No. While no information has been forwarded by the show (yet), a Cylon male might be able to ''sire'' a child through a human female, too. The only problem with this wager is that the damn show may last 7 seasons before we find out Baltar's fate!

:::Oh, and this is a big hunch, but I think there's a ''13th'' model--an overlord that's vastly more intelligent. Imagine if we're able to see who commands the basestars? ''I wonder who.'' --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:22, 6 January 2006 (EST)

::::Now that's friendlier. I'm on Ricimer's team for this one. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:58, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:::::Such material/monetary things are irrelevant to me. But you are in luck because it so happens there is something I want, something I wanted ever since I came here, they say it cannot be taken, it have to be given...--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:07, 6 January 2006 (EST)

::::::Seems like the debate over Ellen should factor in here somewhere. (I can't stand her either, Ric. But I don't think she's a Cylon... unfortunately. Maybe we'll still be able to watch her die, though.) --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 10:30, 6 January 2006 (EST)

User talk:Watcher

2006-01-05T09:31:11Z

Watcher: THE GREATEST THING EVER TO HAPPEN TO BG!!

===Logo===
Hiya. Thanks, I suppose, for your support of my rendering of the logo. I don't want this to be an issue or a controversy, so just, uh, watch out for that, if it seems anyone's getting very emotionally attached to someone else's work. Thanks, again. --[[User:Day|Day]] 08:50, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

==Nirvana==

Introducing the [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/101/| GREATEST THING TO EVER HAPPEN TO BG!] Go check out the '''R&D TV Titles Animations'''. They go all the way back to [[33|33]]. You'll wet your camoflage pants. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 04:31, 5 January 2006 (EST)

User talk:Spencerian

2006-01-05T00:52:09Z

Watcher:

''For discussions prior to January 1, 2006, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASpencerian&diff=21890&oldid=21664 click here.]''

==The CNP==

In the mini-series, Doral comes to Baltar on Ragnar with a list of civilian ships that have the CNP, which indicates that there are non-military ships with the program.

Furthermore, there are a '''lot''' of Vipers leaving the Galactica at Ragnar to engage the Cylons. I was under the impression there were only twenty Mark II Vipers aboard the Galactica, and that its original Mark VII squadron was destroyed on the way back to Caprica. Therefore, at least some of those Vipers might have been the survivors of other ships that made their way to Ragnar after Adama gave the order to rendezvous there for a counterattack.

Furthermore, later in the series, the Galactica seems to have an awful lot of Raptors, and Crashdown is described as being a refugee from the Triton, which IIRC was one of the battlestars destroyed around the time of the Atlantia. Therefore, it seems that some Raptors might have made their way there was well. The Raptors also have FTL (unlike, apparently, the Vipers) and judging by how the Raiders never tried to virus Boomer and Helo, Raptors might be less suspectible to Cylon interference, so any Raptors that escaped the destruction of their battlestars would have an easier time getting away from the Cylons then Vipers would.

Also, Dualla describes reports of system failures throughout the Fleet, and then describes how a battlestar lost power. How effective was the CNP with the capital ships? We've seen it used quite effectively on Vipers, but Dualla's description of its effects on battlestars is vague (power loss in at least one case and undescribed "system failures").

Congrats on being made Admin.

--[[User:mq59|mq59]] 12:16, 3 January 2006 (EST)

:Hi, Mq59. I remember the scene with Doral (in CIC, Baltar was being "serviced" by virtual Six when he was interrupted) and will review it on my copy of the miniseries; you may be right on the CNP's use on civilian ships. As far as Crashdown's origination, it's not clear if he flew in on a Raptor (the largest of any refugee ship; no other indications show any other Colonial Fleet craft escaped to Ragnar) or even flew in at all; Valerii may have been kidding about a transfer he made from the ''Triton'' before the attack. We don't have enough information to pull a good speculation here, although I would defer it to escaped since we know Raptors have FTL ability and are small enough not to be noticed as well by Cylon forces. We just don't have any information from the Miniseries that additional ships made it. Raptors had CNP as well, but yes, since they are designed for electronic countermeasures, they may be less subceptible to infiltration, CNP or not. If you can find Doral's exact line to Baltar, that will be enough as a source. However, we shouldn't globally say that all civilian ships used the CNP; it's practical that commercial commerce ships, such as modern freighters, may use similar hardware from the same ship contractor that builds military ships and so have a similar specification for CNP. Most civilian ships, such as passenger liners, were just defenseless and easy to destroy, CNP or not.

:The CNP was very effective, obviously: all but two battlestars were destroyed. We saw in "Valley of Darkness" what happens when a battlestar is infected. We know that, while the battlestar may not have been fully shutdown like a fighter would, the number of systemic failures would be enough to leave a battlestar effectively defenseless and fodder for a basestar and her fighters. If a second Cylon fight occurred during "Valley", ''Galactica'' would have been screwed. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:49, 3 January 2006 (EST)

Peter Farago found the "civilians with the CNP" quote and put it in the "Talk: CNP article."

I know no capital ships made it to Ragnar. However, it seemed they had too many Vipers and Raptors (the Vipers in the mini and the Raptors during the actual series) for an about-to-be-decommissioned ship.

The CNP worked--it seems like virtually all the Colonial Fleet was destroyed in a single day (not sure what length of time the miniseries actually covers, but it's not that long). I was curious about how effective it was and how many casualties the Cylons could have theoretically suffered.

I may write a fanfic called "The Death of the Poseidon" describing the destruction of a battlestar during the opening attack--the Raiders shut down virtually all of the Vipers and destroy the defenseless Raptors, but lose many Raiders trying to close with the "Poseidon" to trigger the CNP (a Raider "eye-dance" in the mini and "Flight of the Phoenix" seems to be the preferred way of jacking with the Colonials). The Poseidon's fire controls go haywire and main power shuts down, enabling the Cylons to launch a bunch of nukes. By the time they get the backups running, the nukes are too close to shoot down and BANG!

Hmm...if I make the battlestar the "Triton" instead of the "Poseidon," perhaps I can involve Crashdown.

--[[User:mq59|mq59]] 1:24, 3 January 2006 (EST)

:Nice catch, MQ. I've readded your contribution with the source that Peter provided. Enlightening. For the Viper count, there is an article that tracks the number of Vipers, but it escapes me. [[Flight of the Phoenix]] has a notation on this. There are enough Vipers but fewer pilots nowandays. ''Galactica'' had two Mk.II squadrons at the start of the war.

:We don't host fan fiction here, of course, but I'm sure you'd have an audience for your story somewhere! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:41, 3 January 2006 (EST)

Does the Viper count include the mini-series? Four Vipers (I believe) were destroyed on-screen at the Battle of Ragnar Anchorage. However, when the Vipers are launched, it looks like there are a lot more than the 30-odd Vipers they've got by "Flight of the Phoenix."

I saw the mini last night and Adama referred to "twenty Vipers" being in their museum section (the Mark IIs). Assuming Apollo left his Mark VII there when he took out his father's Mark II for a spin during the decommissioning, the other seven or so Mark VIIs they've got by "Flight" had to come from somewhere. This doesn't take casualties at Ragnar into account.

I have to actually start writing the story first. I've got one Internet project to finish within the next week or so, and classes for me (I am in college) resume Monday.--[[User:mq59|mq59]] 14:21, 3 January 2006 (EST)

:It's complicated. I'm currently keeping track of everything in the notes section of [[Galactica (RDM)]], but the matter may deserve its own article in the near future. My own impression, anyway, was that Galactica had two squadrons of Mk. VIIs (in active service out of the port flight pod) and one squadron ofn Mk. IIs (in the museum on the starboard pod). After the twenty Mk. VIIs in Ripper's squadron were destroyed, the Mk. IIs were reactivated, bringing the total to the (roughly) 40 fighters seen at the Ragnar battle. I'm not 100% sure of this, however, as there are still other sources to consult. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:33, 3 January 2006 (EST)

==Rank= Administrator==

OK. Now I'm jealous. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 14:51, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:''(yodaspeak)'' Be careful you should be, or [[Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship|suffer my fate, you will!]] ''(/yodaspeak)'' --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:02, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:: '''''LOL!''''' --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 19:52, 4 January 2006 (EST)

User talk:Spencerian

2006-01-04T19:51:36Z

Watcher: Rank= Administrator

User talk:Spencerian

2005-12-31T03:05:44Z

Watcher: /* Congrats! */ $$$

Transferred my basic bio from Wikipedia to here. To all of us BSG addicts: Praise the Lords of Kobol and pass the munitions... [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:52, 14 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Annililated three major stub pages today. Guess I'm all hyped up for Season 2's premiere today. Stop me before I de-stub again... [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:51, 15 Jul 2005 (EDT)

: [[Wikipedia:Destroy All Humans|Destroy All Humans]]!... erm, I mean stubs. :-) Yes, please keep on nuking all the stubs. Thanks! :-) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:51, 15 Jul 2005 (EDT)

== We're a POV Wiki, Within Reason ==

This is just my understanding, but BSG Wiki is not quite like the formal Wikipedia. As such, as we enter factual information about the episode, we also may add opinion, some commentary, and speculation as appropriate. This is definiitely different from Wikipedia where such Personal Point of View comments are not acceptable. One thing that we must remember not to do is to get all bent out of shape and delete an opposing view simply because we have a different interpretation of events. One suggestion is to add a counterpoint with sufficient reasons or evidence that support your view. This is fiction, and I doubt that RDM will explain everything (where's the fun if he did that?), so we're left to figure things out on our own. So, don't hack and slash, but if you find my posts (or others) are just too wordy or prose-ridden, do what you feel is right, of course... [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:45, 4 Aug 2005 (EDT)

:Thanks for some of the clean-up in the Gauis Baltar and the Marines/Defense entries. I do have a question about the "tense" convention being used here on BSG-wiki. While you note that this is not wikipedia, I am curious as to why we are using present tense usage on events which occurred prior to the current episode? It seems to me events as they unfold should be used in the past-tense while ongoing terms and concepts that are presumed still active within the context of thew "current timeline" of the show would be present tense. For example, shouldn't descriptions of Baltar's background, and events which have already occurred on Caprica, etc. be in the past tense, while referring to him as the Vice President, and duties onboard Galcatica, etc. be present tense? Likewise shouldn't passages about say the development of the Mark II Viper be past tense, while current disposition and capabilities be present tense? Not trying to be overly pedantic, but if we were to use and adopt the convention that this "encyclopedia" were to be discussing things and concepts within BSG as if it "were real" so-to-speak, like say in a present day encyclopedia would describe the development of the F-14 Tomcat in past tense terms but describe current description of the presently active variants of the F-14 (i.e. the F-14D) and its deployment and present status within the arsenal of the United States Navy, it would be present tense. Whereas descriptions of say, a WWII German Stuka Bomber would all be past tense. [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 12:29, 30 November 2005 (EST)

::Thanks (and welcome!), Lestatdelc--fresh faces to help the wiki articles is always helpful. You're right--"historical" items of Gaius' history (things that happen before the series and Mini-Series) can and should be left as past-tense. But episodic info should be present tense since in fiction they are always "doing" and not "done", so instead of "Gaius shot Crashdown", it's "Gaius shoots Crashdown." The [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions]] project page details this more, and I've not been expert at it myself, but try to correct what's outside of convention whenever possible. If I've changed any of the tenses improperly, do feel free to dive in to correct. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:23, 30 November 2005 (EST)

== Episode Project Page? ==

Heya. I heard you were particularly active in writing the episode articles. If so, you might consider collaborating with some other users that are, too, to create a project page for episodes. [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] created a [[Battlestar Wiki:Characters|Characters Project Page]] for better planning and communication. I can't speak from experience, but it might be good to make note of various conventions or templates or whatever used for episode articles. If you decide to put this together, I made a [[:Category:Project Page|Project Page]] category so we could keep track of the various convention & template pages. I don't mean to tell anyone what to do. Just thought I'd draw your attention to this. --[[User:Day|Day]] 07:18, 31 August 2005 (EDT)
:Hi, Day. Thanks for letting me know of this tool. I'm more of a major article content writer than article creator, so I've usually not done much in page formatting and creation. I've generally followed the lead of Peter and others who obviously have stronger wiki formatting skills, then apply or update any new material on pages that use their templates. Collectively the wiki has improved on formatting and templates, but yes, many early character bios must be cleaned up, and I'll get to Peter's character project page and your general project page to lend a hand. Same for the episode pages as applicable, although most of the second season pages appear to be in fair shape. Excellent idea. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:03, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

== Ellen Tigh ==

I have a question for you concerning your recent edit to [[Ellen Tigh]] at the bottom of [[Battlestar_Wiki_talk:Standards_and_Conventions]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:33, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

== Mercury-Class Battlestar ==

Since we have gone back and forth once, I wanted to talk to you about it here. Stating that a battlestar is a Mercury-Class Battlestar, even if it happens to be pegasus, is not a spoiler. It is unnecessary to be in spoiler tags. We don't state anything else about it.

:Okay, but would that be of plausible interest to anyone who explicitly did ''not'' want to have that episode spoiled? It's not as if the Mercury class has ever been mentioned before. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:26, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

::I understand what you're saying about not spoiling it for someone who has no interest in knowing, however this isn't stating any IMPORTANT information that would lead you to explicitly know anything. People who are newbs to BSG wouldn't know if the Pegasus ship has been featured before, if it was going to return, or how many episodes away its return is. And BSG veterans may know about Pegasus, but wouldn't explicitly know when or if the Pegasus were going to return. Therefore, I submit this is not a spoiler. However, this is specific case is not a major concern for me, the episode is two days away anyways, but rather the principle of the issue at hand because it might arise again and I'd like a consensus on the issue. I believe that small splices of info that couldn't explicitly give away plot twists are not spoilers and therefore in the interest of not needlessly continually reediting pages that should not have been editted to begin with we should treat trivial information that does not reveal plot are not spoilers. In conclusion I will go to our future spoiler policy's definition of a spoiler:In fandom parlance, a "spoiler" is one or more pieces of information that may spoil the user's interest in an ongoing series. If anyone can give me a couple of reasonable explanations as to how the fact Pegasus is a Mercury-Class Battlestar is a spoiler and if a majority of people agree that trivial information not revealing plot but mention future events/items/characters I will resign the issue.--Zareck Rocks 18:50, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

:::The reason that "Mercury-Class" is a spoiler is because it a term not told in any aired episode. We only know "Galactica" but have not been told yet what ''her'' class was, much less that of the others. We know (at least until "Pegasus") only that there were other more advanced battlestars. Thus, "Mercury-Class" is a spoiler. The name "Pegasus" is also one, but we got that an episode name and it's not worth protecting that matter. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:58, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

:::I'm inclined to state that any specifics regarding an upcoming episode that hasn't been directly outlined in say...TV Guide or the Sci-Fi channel's own description would amount to a spoiler. I agree that the class of Battlestar is probably a trivial detail but as the episode has not aired we should leave it out until it does. The only exception to this would be where the specific revealed happened to be part of the teaser trailer airing to promote the episode.--[[User:Feldspar|Feldspar]] 19:06, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

:::: This is a spoiler according to the not-yet-instituted policy. It may be a kind of miniscule, nit pickey, lame spoiler, but it fulfills the following: 
::::: ''Therefore a spoiler is one or more pieces of information from an episode that has yet to air'' anywhere ''in the world.'' 
:::: This is just a technicality, but if you're gonna make a rule, you should follow it all the way. Maybe this is an indication that the proposed policy is a bit strict. I dunno. That's my opinion, though. Anyway, we're not bound by the proposed one yet. For another couple days or something, anyway. I think. I can't keep things perfectly straight. --[[User:Day|Day]] 19:51, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

:::I added my comments to the main policy page, but Peter said what I have said. ANY connecting information leads to a spoiler if it hasn't been announced officially or aired. We don't rate the importance of information as to whether it's a "big" or "small" spoiler. If it's not aired yet, it's gotta have a tag, but at least it can be added to the page. My only failure was to make whole pages as a spoiler instead of using the spoiltext tag more judgiciously--and I was corrected by others. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:58, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

:::::IMO, the policy is sound, and leaves no room for interpretation. This is a good thing, since it will keep us from having exegetical fights instead of wiki-ing. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:54, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

: See [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Spoiler Policy/Compromise]] for my reply. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:48, 21 September 2005 (EDT)

== Laird's first name. ==

Hello there. I am sorry for the confusion that I may have caused you. I personally did not find the name "Peter Laird" on any external site, I found it here on Battlestar Wiki on the [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]] episode page. Upon checking the history of the page it appears that a user by the name of [[User:Arjuna|Arjuna]] updated the page giving first names to both Chief Laird and Lieutenant Throne. Clearly, I mistakenly believed these to be official names and proceeded to edit Laird’s profile page oblivious to the disputed and most likely non-canonical nature of his first name. Next time I shall be sure to check the validity of a piece before I assume it is a fact, however the person you should really be questioning here is [[User:Arjuna|Arjuna]], he/she appears to be the source of these false names.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention though, I appreciate it.

[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 06:02, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

: Thanks, Kahran. We've all done that here, and it's nothing to worry about. The strongest contributors here are also the biggest sticklers to sources, and prefer less to more when it comes to information. Like Galen, Laird's name is probably ''going'' to be canon, just not yet. And, with BSG's popularity, more and more enthusiasts like you and I will want to put in their 2 cents, but need to know what's official and not. I'll check with Arjuna on the source if there is one. Thanks for responding back! [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:13, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

== The Battlestar Disambiguation Pages-What Was Done? ==

After talking with Peter on the general Battlestar page, we agreed that that page needed to be broken up and successive pages to keep the confusion down between TOS and RDM information. See the new [[Battlestar]] page, which is now a disambig page to lead you to the several pages where the data is logically broken up.

The only problem is the original [[Galactica]] page, which should have been moved to [[Galactica (RDM)]]. Mistakenly I created that Galactica (RDM) page instead. The Galactica page could be another disambig page with links to the RDM, TOS, and Video game areas, but I stopped there (enough damage) to let Joe think of the best way to make this work.

The biggest change involves the general [[Galactica]] link, which should be [[Galactica (RDM)]] by default unless a TOS page discussses it, in which case [[Galactica (TOS)]] should be used. Please flame away: it's what the page is for. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:51, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

== Toaster Pic ==

Spencerian, I'm thinking of uploading an actual picture of a toaster for the "Toaster" page, or at least I'd like to see one there. If you check out the [[Talk:Toaster]] page, I've linked to one I think looks pretty good. I understand you're probably going to bust a tantrum because it's not appropriate or something, but I think it'll be a bit of humor that'll break a few smiles here and there. Just tell me what you think.
:''[[User:Jzanjani|Jzanjani]] 21:56, 7 October 2005 (EDT)''

::Brilliant idea. See the [[Toaster]] page. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:22, 7 October 2005 (EDT)

==Your photos==
Damn, sir. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:43, 9 October 2005 (EDT)
:Oh, its what I do. :) [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:23, 9 October 2005 (EDT)
::Ooh! Hottie!--[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 12:25, 9 October 2005 (EDT)

== I'd like to draw you're attention... ==

...to [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions#The Freakin.27 Quote-o-Matic|this discissuion]] again. You were one of the only two other people to reply to it initially, and I'd appriciate feedback, befor putting my most recent proposal up on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|main page]]. Thanks in advance. --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:17, 31 October 2005 (EST)

== Cally ==

Question: Why'd you change the picture width of her template pic to 150px? The Characters page says use 200px and the template's own talk page says so, too. I'll go change it back right now, but--I thought I'd start a dialog about it, too, in case there's some good reason I don't know about. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:29, 10 November 2005 (EST)
:OK. I think I got very annoyed at the large perspective of the shot, despite it being at the 200px convention. Sometimes it may be better not to have the larger shot as the picture eclipses the article. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:30, 10 November 2005 (EST)

== Costume Idea ==

Dude. You should consider Terry Tate. The man is a Golden God. I can't find all his commercials (they're out there, though), but [http://www.advertisementave.com/tv/ad.asp?adid=526 here's one]. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:43, 10 November 2005 (EST)

Ahha. [http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5922/terry_tate_long_version/ This is a longer version], which has some clips that are priceless and does some better close-ups. I especially like the tackling technique at the end. He doesn't just slam the dude. He goes in for the ball-strip, too, to force a fumble. Okay. I'm done on this topic now. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:50, 10 November 2005 (EST)

:Oh. My. God. Being one of the whitest black men in America, I don't think I can do this one justice! Still wiping the tears out of my eyes, though. I think I lost it when Tate complained of the lack of cover sheets on a victim's TPS reports. Maybe I can do Lumbergh from ''Office Space''... :)

:''Rrrrright''... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:41, 10 November 2005 (EST)

:: You don't think you could pull off Terry-at-the-Finance-Meeting? With the reading glasses, pointer and jeresey? Heh. I have a friend who must be very like you, except much, much skinnier. We've been telling people for years that he's the whitest black man they'll ever meet. Now I guess I've met two. ;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:57, 11 November 2005 (EST)

== Creative Commons ==
Okay, crash course: All the non-image content we ''create'' on this wiki is automatically under the Creative Commons Non-Commercial Attribution Share-alike license, version 2.0 or greater.

Because of this, we cannot incorporate work into the textual areas of the wiki which are copyrighted or licensed under incompatible terms (e.g. the GFDL). A certain amount of leeway is allowed for "fair use", such as scholarly quotations.

Image content we create remains under the exclusive copyright of the uploader unless a written waiver is provided or the image is explicitly provided under an Free Content license on the description page

Images copyrighted by Universal Studios stay copyrighted by universal studios, no matter who is hosting them - any credit given to TwizTV or other sources is a mere formality, since universal is the sole rights holder. Thus, taking a screen capture from another site (as Ricimer has done before) is legally no different than taking a screen capture yourself.

Copyrighted and GFDL work cannot be used "under the Creative Commons license" - because we don't own the copyrights, we have no right to relicense the work. What we can do, in limited circumstances (including most screenshots here), is claim ''fair use''. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:13, 21 November 2005 (EST)

:OK, Peter. Based on what you said, the screen captures I've pulled from TVIV are still appropriately obtained. I've not grabbed textual content from any other sites lately, per your last clarification on the differences between CCL and GFDL, so I understand now that my recent images are fair-use and not really CCL. Makes the whole idea of share-alike too confusing to make it worthwhile, and certainly not practically usable for us without a clear primer. I'd rather not get into learning legalities for fear of realizing I've turned paralegal and mercy-killing myself as a societal gesture of goodwill... ---[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:15, 21 November 2005 (EST)

::Sorry if I came off testy - I just don't have any desire for Joe to get a cease-and-desist e-mail over a silly accident. That would be a bummer. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:56, 21 November 2005 (EST)
:::Not a problem, Peter. Taking the time to chastise and clarify things with me indicates your mutual concern and enjoyment for the wiki, so I don't take it at all personally. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:35, 22 November 2005 (EST)

==''Administrator'' Spencerian?==

I have [[Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship/Spencerian| nominated]] you to be one of the new administrators. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:34, 16 December 2005 (EST)
:Thanks for that, Ricimer. I appreciate the gesture. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:05, 17 December 2005 (EST)
::While I'd hate to take time from your contributions (nice job on D'anna), I think I may have gotten some more of the request for admin stuff figured out. Whenever you get a chance to fill out the questions on your [[Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship/Spencerian|nomination]], you can then put the subpage on the main RFA page like Ricimer's. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:55, 21 December 2005 (EST)
:::Yes, I saw that the page was up, and I'm still in a small state of shock and awe about all this. I'll fill in some answers as soon as I can think of something witty and professional (and maybe not as caffeine-intoxicated) :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:59, 21 December 2005 (EST)

==Congrats!==

Kevin, just wanted you to know that you have some shiny new tabs on the top of your page. Congratulations and happy new year! :-) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 12:26, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:Thanks! I vow to use my newfound powers for truth, justice, and the Colonial way! :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:20, 30 December 2005 (EST)

::So, exactly where do we mail the bribes? --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 22:05, 30 December 2005 (EST)

User:Watcher

2005-12-30T11:46:06Z

Watcher: When will Jan. 6 get here?!

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Uatu Wiki.jpg|220px]]
|age= Ageless
|colony=[[Earth]] (presently)
|birthname=None that I'm aware of
|callsign=Watcher
|death=December 22, 2012
|parents=The Sun & the Moon
|siblings=Yule Brenner
|children=None that I'm aware of (heh)
|marital status=It doesn't count once you pass 3
|role=Howard Cosell
|rank=No. I just bathed.
|actor=I ask you... who could?
|cylon=
}}

== Turn Around And Smile At The Camera ==

'''Watcher''' is the resident pundit/commentator... sometimes to everyone else's chagrin.

He spends most of his time on the wiki lurking anonymously or dreaming up third and fourth options for problems his fellow Wikipedians have already settled.

When all else fails... he sucks it up and votes.

User talk:CalculatinAvatar

2005-12-30T11:27:48Z

Watcher:

==Welcome==

Welcome aboard, CalculatinAvatar. I've enjoyed your edits so far. Keep it up. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:54, 28 December 2005 (EST)

: Also welcome. Additionally: [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=Launch_tubes&curid=2481&diff=20987&oldid=18340&rcid=18277 good eye]. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:27, 28 December 2005 (EST)

== DeZervAdLy lOw? ==

Don't be so hard on yourself. I think I was struggling to understand Photoshop (back when it didn't have a number behind it) when I was your age... I also had to walk uphill in a snowstorm in my bare feet just to ... --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 06:27, 30 December 2005 (EST)

User talk:The Merovingian

2005-12-30T00:32:30Z

Watcher: /* Unwanted Template Lines */ (shrug)

== Regarding "Spoilers" ==

Welcome to the Wiki! Just wanted to drop a note by and state that this site doesn't censor spoilers. Therefore, I've reverted your changes. See the [[Battlestar Wiki:Spoiler Policy|Spoiler Policy]]. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 11:06, 17 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Well yes, but I think we should just keep stuff that's current, or chronological i.e. put the first entry under "Pegasus" saying that Tyrol served there, THEN mentioned the rest...I don't know. P.S. What's with that IP address that keeps sending junk links on this wiki? Is it a person or a bot?

: I think its a bot of some type. I'll probably end up blocking the IP ranges. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 12:52, 17 Aug 2005 (EDT)

==Cylon Wars==

Just wanted to compliment you for your recent adjustments to the Cylon War articles. Nice job. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:43, 18 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Ditto. I like the Battle pages you've created. It has a great functionality to show in a nutshell any changes in equipment and manpower. If that isn't already there, can we have a count of lost Colonial ships, pilots, or other humans? [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:09, 18 Aug 2005 (EDT)

:As I understand it, there is a "list of pilots" page, and I believe that it and the article for ''Galactica'' cover Viper numbers (though Raptor numbers are anyone's guesss so far; the official site+on screen dialog has only said the number of Vipers). I also appreciate it that RDM, unlike the morons on Star Trek: Voyager (HOW MANY shuttles did they lose?) will devote an ENTIRE EPISODE's "A" plot ("Flight of the Phoenix") to saying that the Galactica has reached the point where they have to start building more Vipers ''from scratch''. --->Actually, all I did was copy/paste the wiki battlebox from Wikipedia's Battle of Pelennor Fields page....of course, I WROTE most of the entry for Pelennor Fields including the battlebox, as well as the box for Helm's Deep, Black Gate, Bywater, Dale, etc. If you check "history" on Wikipedia I (Ricimer) actually have written ''most'' of the LOTR material, and I regulary update the Battlestar Galactica pages. Weird thing is, on Wikipedia if you type in "Cylon" you get this 6th century B.C. Athenian statesman named "Cylon" with a link to "the fictional robots". I think maybe 5 people would be looking for the ancient Athenian: anyone known how to bump Galactica's Cylons ahead of them? Anyway, the hard part was actually figuring out how to get a color that was visible on a black backround; it was originally ''pink'' and looked horrible (I don't know how to change colors) and had to toy around a dozen or so times before I got a nice bluish color. ---Ricimer 8:00, 18 Aug, 2005 EDT

==12 Colonies==

Thanks on the Colony stuff, I'm still new at this.

==Nuggets==

You said:

:According to the SciFi.com official website, after the events of "The Hand of God", there are 5 surviving nuggets.

Can you tell me where to find this? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:45, 27 August 2005 (EDT)

:Go to Scifi.com's Battlestar Galactica page. Click on "Ships Gallery" go to the Viper page. Click on "CAG roster". It gives a list of ships. During the first season it was updated every episode that Vipers were lost or damaged, up until episode #10 "The Hand of God" (I actually don't think any Vipers were lost since then). Anyway, it says that there are "5 trainee pilots" right there. So I went to the "nugget" page and updated it to say that there are 5 now (Hot Dog, Kat, and three others apparently). ---Ricimer, 27 Aug, 2005 4:00 pm EDT

==Your fight with [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]]==

Gentlemen: rather than reverting each other's edits on [[Cylons]] and submitting ban requests, please attempt a civilized discussion on the article's [[Talk:Cylons|talk page]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:03, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

Agreed. I will revert the Cylon page to whatever it was in the last edit before this started, then continue on the discussion page. ---Ricimer, 1 Sept, 2005

==Redirects==

Use <nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Gideon]]</nowiki>, for example. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:08, 10 September 2005 (EDT)

== Humano-Cylons ==

I was looking into your reason for removing my "Starbuck's a Cylon" bit and wanted to point out that the line that Boomer says concerning Starbuck having a child does not say that she would breed with a Cylon. Boomer states, "No, if you agreed to bear children, it’d be voluntary, maybe even set you up with someone you like." Now, if Starbuck were to be set up with a Cylon to create a hybrid and the "twelve models" bit meant twelve different Humano-Cylon models, that would be extremely limiting (after all, we've already seen the chemistry between her and Leoben. Heh.). If the Cylons were trying to set her up with Simon, for example, it seems odd how he kept pushing her buttons (the child abuse thing, the "do you see any Vipers around here" bit, etc.). If one wanted to look at Boomer's comment as a general one relating to humans, then it still seems like Starbuck would not really work in that situation, either. I think that Boomer's comment could mean that the Cylons would set her up with Anders or Lee Adama, both of whom she has feelings for (note that Boomer says "someone you like," not "someone you would like."). While a case could be made that Anders is a Cylon, his presige and career in professional Pyramid makes it likely that he would have been in the public eye for more than two years prior to the Cylon holocaust, which, as I stated, seems to be the point of origin of Cylon infiltration. However, the information on Anders is quite weak and would make such a case on either side very difficult. D'anna Biers may have been in the public eye as a reporter, though the case has been made by others that she was probably a low profile reporter prior to the attack, and therefore would not have had the exposure that Anders enjoyed. Also, if one were to make the case that Baltar was a Cylon and that he could be used, the brainscan performed on him in Home, Part II, seems like it would have shown silica pathways in his brain, as that appears to still be part of Cylon technology (according to the mini-series), so it seems unlikely that he's a Cylon, too. Well, that turned into quite the long and roundabout case. Anyhow, as Boomer, nor anyone else in the episode, seems to have stated directly that Starbuck would be made to breed with a Cylon, there is enough wiggle-room to justify that this may not have been the case. -- [[User:Linaf|Linaf]]

== Final Cut ==

Thanks for the clean-up on my addendum... was kinda klunky....
[[User:Lone Odessan|Lone Odessan]] 18:17, 11 September 2005 (EDT)

== The Great Cylon Turkey Shoot ==

You, sir, are a genius with the new battle page title. I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read your title change. The content of this page should be equally amusing. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:46, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

*No sir, I was actually quite serious. RDM was in the NROTC, and he says he has stacks of Word War II naval history books which much of the new "realistic" Battlestar Galactica is based on. My new title is a referrence to an infamous World War II battle: The Great Marianas Turkey Shoot, properly referred to as the Battle of the Philippine Sea. It was the battle that struck a death knell to the Japanese Imperial Navy: the Japanese Naval Carrier threat was elminated in this battle and they never challenged US air dominance again. While suffering relatively light losses, for every one American plane shot down, *''four''* Japanese plains were shot down, and their carriers were annihilated. The battle was incredbily lopsided. Because of this lopsidedness, I felt it appropriate to use it here, because BSG is based on a lot of WWII carrier stuff. I'll leave a note there saying it's a name we made up. By the way, we need to link these battles into the episode articles so people know to look at them (casual fans coming onto the site). Problem I have though, is that we don't know if there were Turkeys on the 12 Colonies! (see Life Forms section of "Twelve Colonies"). ---Ricimer, 17 Sept, 2005
: Still a genius move in both humor as well as military history research. I'm faintly familiar with that WWII battle: I think your name is quite appropriate. At least we know the Colonies have blackbirds. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 02:00, 17 September 2005 (EDT)

==Don't Bite the Newbies==

While [[User:Destinymaker]] familiarizes himself with [[Battlestar Wiki:Welcome, newcomers]], please give [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers|Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers]] a read. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:15, 18 September 2005 (EDT)

I appoligie, though I am a strong believer in the survival of the fittest. --Ricimer, 18 Sept, 2005

:Hey, Ricimer. You may also want to cut Sprocketeer a little slack, although in principle I agreed with some of what you said. See my edits on the Phoenix page as well. I struck your last edits only because they were too argumentative (as in fistfight) to reedit and add in the time I had. Please add them again as appropriate to the existing page information, which also has my last edits, too. (we were on the page at the same time). [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:12, 19 September 2005 (EDT)

::No, they were actually quite civil. I made a point by point rebuttal. I'll go back and see if I can iron them out a little though. Still, he should realize that that should have been put in talk. ---Ricimer, 19 Sept, 2005

==Definite Articles==
There's a [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions|place]] to throw your two cents in. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:49, 19 September 2005 (EDT)

==Kudos==
Ricimer, I just wanted to say that although I know we don't always see eye to eye on everything, I think the work you've done on the battle pages is fantastic, and I've greatly appreciated your contributions here. Thank you, and keep it up. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:40, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

==Moving Pages==
Each page should have a "move" tab right after history. If you use this instead of pasting the content into a new article, it will preserve the edit history. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:12, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

==Jzanjani==
Ricimer, please. He's ''allowed'' to do whatever he wants with his talk page. At the very worst blanking it is in bad taste. See [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Talk page|Wikipedia:Talk page]], specifically the section "Can I do whatever I want to my own user talk page?" --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:24, 6 October 2005 (EDT)

:Dear friend Ricimer,

:Since I have joined the community of Wikipedians here on battlestarwiki, it has been my misfortune to have alienated so prolific and knowledgeable a contributor as yourself. Spencerian, Farago, and Watcher have all played third parties to our heated disputes, which have occasionally - it shames me to admit it - come close to blows. Our disputes have rendered vulgar the level of discourse on this website and have proven a distraction to the practical minds which everyday toil to clarify the mysteries of Battlestar Galactica. Because we have been unable to resolve our differences, our bickering has consumed a significant portion of the efforts of our peers, and thus may delay key contributions in the future.

:Therefore, this situation can not continue. Whatever form our differences take, it is unacceptable that we continue to divert the efforts of our eloquent colleagues. Let us put the past behind us, and let us go forward hand-in-hand as we unravel the complexities of this, the greatest television series in the history of the Twelve Colonies. Ricimer, please accept my most sincere, genuine, and heartfelt [http://webspace.utexas.edu/joz59/funny_pics/fuck_soccer.jpg apology.]

::Respectfully,

:::''[[User:Jzanjani|Jzanjani]]''

::::You come here under the banner of peace, and yet you post me an "apology" link at the end connecting to a pic of a kid giving me The Finger? For this the only Verdict is Vengeance.
::::: Further posting into this is not worth my or anyone else's time. I am going to resume my normal 'rounds about the wiki without futher commentary or complaint regarding this. But you have just made an enemy for life. ---Ricimer, October 7, 2005
::::::I, for one, appreciate you standing down from this, Ricimer. The Wiki would diminish without your contributions, though I'm not taking sides. Just remember Peter's words and don't bite the newbies too hard, OK? :) I've already put my 2 cents on Jzanjani's page on '''his''' behavior, and we'll let that alone unless Joe has any further wisdom to part to either of you. I'm glad you, like many of us here, are now officially [http://www.branchbrothers.net/asshole.htm a recovering member] :) . Take my advice on not flaming, leave the vengeance thing to the writers of other fiction (life's too short to be angry) and keep up the good contribs. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:31, 7 October 2005 (EDT)
::::I think the above link is a tad off-color, otherwise fine---Ricimer

== Regarding Jzanjani ==

Ricimer,

If you haven't been made aware of it already, I have banned Jzanjani for one week starting today.

I'm letting you know that I don't blame you for any actions you took against Jzanjani -- which consisted of, mainly, following good manners in reverting Jzanjani's wipes of his own talk page while an issue was still being discussed. Were I in your position, I would've done the same myself.

While I don't say this often -- perhaps because I feel I don't ''have'' to, but maybe I should just to make it clear -- I appreciate your contributions to this Wiki. You are a valued contributor here and I appreciate your restraint in this situation. You backed down and I'm sorry that Jzanjani didn't have the same sense to follow your example. Now both of you don't have to like each other, again I don't have the right to dictate how people should behave. Not my place. However, if it invovles this Wiki, then behavior becomes my concern and I'll make sure it stops at the front door, as it were. (Or the windows, or whatever entry point one chooses to use to enter this website.)

Believe me when I say that this could have spiraled so far out of control that it might have damaged this community we've built here.

If Jzanjani turns out to be a troll -- I hope to hell he isn't, but I've been disappointed before by human nature -- then I'll ban him permanently. I've made this clear to him on his talk page, so none of this should be constitued as "talking behind Jzanjani's back".

Anyway, again, I appreciate your contributions and, if you feel you need to take a break from the Wiki yourself, feel free. Take a breather. You've earned it the honest way, as it were.

Thank you. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 21:37, 8 October 2005 (EDT)

== Language/Aerelon/Grace Park ==
Hello Ricimer,

I hope I'm communicating with you the right away. I'm about as nugget as nugget gets on any Wiki system, including this one!

There were a couple of changes to the entry on Grace Park and Aerelon language that I wanted to explain. First, it is true that Grace Park is a fluent speaker of Korean, but her English--either as Sharon Valerii or as herself in interviews--doesn't have any trace of a Korean accent whatsoever. I'm married to a native Korean speaker, have friends and colleagues who speak Korean either as their first or second language, and have been studying the language for a few years myself, so I'm absolutely certain that Korean has no bearing on what might or might not be considered an Aerelon accent.

On a somewhat smaller matter, there's no accepted version of English called "General English," with a capital G. I am willing to accept a lower case g, "general English," to indicate "common sense" notions about that accent/group of accents.

:Actually, I am not the one that keeps putting the Korean references on that page, and I thought it was irrelevant but people kept putting them back. The thing I had was that I don't think that Grace Park (on or off camera) really speaks with a "Canadian accent" at all; you came here after this, but I had this whole edit that said that it was just an accent that we the audience could not possibly detect but a Colonial could, but this was removed. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 17:44, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

== Picture Updates to Battle Pages ==
Very nice work there, Ricimer. Adds greatly to the pages majesty and atmosphere. Trying to work these pages up to quality articles, perhaps? :) [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:32, 20 October 2005 (EDT)

== Pronunciation ==

How ''do'' you pronounce "Ricimer"? Is it RIH.kih.mer, or RIH.sih.mer? Or is the stress elsehwere? I'm just curious. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:13, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

*[[Wikipedia:Ricimer|Ricimer]] was the "shadow ruler" of the Roman Empire in it's twilight years. He ruled through a series of puppet emperors, and while himself not 'officially' controlling the state, he was the puppeteer pulling all the strings from off stage. It was not only ''possible'' for me to take this name, it was ''essential''. It's pronounced "Rih-sih-mer" (mer as in drum''mer''). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:53, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

::Hrm. If that's Latin, then I doubt it had a soft C at the time. However, neither did Caesar, so I assume you're giving the modernized/bastardized pronunciation. Interesting name story. Huh. :) --[[User:Day|Day]] 06:02, 23 October 2005 (EDT)
:::Well, Ricimer belong to a german tribe, so his name probably wasn't Latin, I would assume. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:39, 24 December 2005 (EST)

== Image Use from GalacticaStation.com-A No-No ==

Ricimer, I strongly believe that using images from Galacticastation is some violation of derivative or extended use of another person's web site without permission, since the site appears private. The web site does not have a Creative Commons License, which is the only fair-use sharealike license we're supposed to acknowledge or derive content from. (Technically, we can't share items from Wikipedia for this reason--Peter had to chastise me on this when I was updating the [[Basestar (TOS)]] page. Yes, the images and likenesses that GS gets are Universal's, but it's ''where'' you get them that matters here.

For images, you can get many excellent caps from [http://tviv.org/wiki/Main_Page TVIV], a TV episode Wiki that does have a CCL, so we can copy items from there (with appropriate credit) without issue. They have a number of BSG ep pages that are really atrocious in textual content but generally great caps... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:25, 7 November 2005 (EST)

:I don't think it matters. Screengrabs we use on this site are copyright Universal Studios anyway, and used under the aegis of fair use, not the CCL. Galacticastation has no copyright over the screen grabs they post, and certainly can't relicense them to us under the CCL (or any license, for that matter). If we're infringing anyone's copyright by using the images, it's Universal's, not Galacticastation's. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:17, 7 November 2005 (EST)

::I've got one "yea" and one "nay" on this: can Joe please give me final word on whether or not we can use GalacticaStation screencaps? Because TVIV doesn't really have many useable ones. I've tried making one or two for Seelix and Jammer, which were removed. I'm a total spaz at this; how are screencaps ''originally'' made, anyway (what do you need to do it)? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:39, 24 December 2005 (EST)

::: I've made [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&offset=0&limit=50&target=Day&namespace=6 a few] image contributions, myself, and all of them are screens I grabbed by my lonesome. As I've gone, I've kind of hammered out a system: For DVDs (I own the British version of Season 1 and the first half of Season 2 on DVD, a friend of mine will be giving me the Mini, eventually), I view them in [http://www.videolan.org/ VLC], which has a "snapshot" feature which doesn't seem to care about copy protection (or whatever it is that makes the "Print Screen" button not work). This saves them as .png. I then fire up good ol' [http://www.gimp.org/ the GIMP] and do any cropping or resizing I feel like and save 'em as a .jpg. So... That's how '''I''' do it, anyway. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:07, 27 December 2005 (EST)

== Sacrifice ==

Dude. Re: Your edit to the Season 2 episode listing. If you put the source in there, it would carry a lot more weight. Also... You have sacrifice as 2.14... Is that a mistake, or is there some weird numbering thing I'm missing or was there a typo in the note, or... What's up with that? Lastly, you should seriously consider trimming/archiving your talk page. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:08, 21 November 2005 (EST)

== Don't Bite the Newbies (or the Vets), Part Deux ==

Hey,Ricimer. You're an excellent contributor, but lately you've had the cordial conversational replies of Doc [[Cottle]] on crystal meth--your replies are becoming flamebait. When you're replying and correcting an edit, particularly done by a new contributor (and we've had lots of them lately), PLEASE try to respond politely, or at least in a neutral voice (Peter Farago does this well, even though I can almost hear the wafts of flame from his comments to me after he concises or edits away some of my fanciful stuff). We need more contributors, and scaring them off with a bad tone is Not Good, even if you're right. Also, keep in mind that not everyone has the gift of good English writing style (or even a good grasp of ''English'', period), so look around the bad grammar and spelling and try to see their point or meaning in their contributions, concising and editing to help perfect their addition. Don't take all of this too seriously. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:05, 9 December 2005 (EST)

:Spence, this itself is kind of flamey. Ricimer has been reasonably good lately. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:10, 9 December 2005 (EST)

::Helps to have conservative ballast around--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:26, 9 December 2005 (EST)

:I stand properly chastized if my language seems gruff--but hopefully you understand my meaning. Ricimer's recent summary comments on the Recent Changes and edit histories are the things I've reacted adversely to. We're not here in person, and whether people come or go is determined by the words and phrasing they see here. If they're misinterpreted, then there's a problem. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:22, 9 December 2005 (EST)

== Quote 09/30 ==

Wish you'd posted into the talk page, rather than re-reverting, man. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:56, 13 December 2005 (EST)

== Regarding "Coffea" ==

I have referred to a source on the talk page which disagrees with your assertion regarding "coffea." It could also be noted it doesn't pass Aspell's en_US dictionary by default. I just wanted to ensure you saw it, as I didn't want to change it back without discussing it. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:04, 29 December 2005 (EST)

:Actually, as you can see on the talk page for that article, Peter Farago and others are the ones promoting that line of thinking. I myself am ambivalent. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:06, 29 December 2005 (EST)

== Unwanted Template Lines ==

How'd ya do it? By switching Templates? --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 17:32, 29 December 2005 (EST)
:Stared at it until I saw meaning; you have to include "|Children=" and "|Cylon=", but you don't write "yes" or "no" after it; leave it blank. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 17:43, 29 December 2005 (EST)
::Check that out. It was hiding in plain site. Danke! --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 18:20, 29 December 2005 (EST)

::: Isn't that all outlined on the tamplate's talk page? --[[User:Day|Day]] 19:21, 29 December 2005 (EST)

:::: (shrug) I dunno. I cheated. I was being lazy and stole it from somewhere. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 19:32, 29 December 2005 (EST)

User:Watcher

2005-12-29T23:26:36Z

Watcher: Thanks again Ric. That red line turns into a sweet little graphic element this way.

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Uatu.jpg|220px]]
|age= Ageless
|colony=[[Earth]] (presently)
|birthname=None that I'm aware of
|callsign=Watcher
|death=December 22, 2012
|parents=The Sun & the Moon
|siblings=Yule Brenner
|children=None that I'm aware of (heh)
|marital status=It doesn't count once you pass 3
|role=Howard Cosell
|rank=No. I just bathed.
|actor=I ask you... who could?
|cylon=
}}

== Turn Around And Smile At The Camera ==

'''Watcher''' is the resident pundit/commentator... sometimes to everyone else's chagrin.

He spends most of his time on the wiki lurking anonymously or dreaming up third and fourth options for problems his fellow Wikipedians have already settled.

When all else fails... he sucks it up and votes.

User talk:The Merovingian

2005-12-29T23:20:36Z

Watcher: Danke

User talk:The Merovingian

2005-12-29T22:32:11Z

Watcher:

Battlestar Wiki talk:Requests for adminship

2005-12-28T08:19:40Z

Watcher: WHAT !?!

Is the complicated template system really necessary for us yet? We're a small wiki and we all pretty much know each other. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:33, 16 December 2005 (EST)

: Yeah. I'm already confused... Where are the questions for all condidates, or are they yet to be imported? I'm all for building things to be future-proof, but we voted on the Spoiler Policy without templates and that turned out okay. I am admittedly not familiar with this event, but is there some reason we can't vote on these the same way? --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:36, 17 December 2005 (EST)

:: I'm still working on refining the policy. I wouldn't comment on it until it's done, so as to avoid confusion (and other minor issues that may arise because of it). Thanks! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 11:41, 18 December 2005 (EST)

:: Addendum: The generic questions for the candidates are part of the {{tl|RFA}} template. Once it is imported into the proper nomination subpage, then they can be answered. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 02:52, 20 December 2005 (EST)

== Stick a fork in it because I believe it's cooked... ==

O.K., as far as I can tell, I'm done with what I need to do. Now, if there are any outstanding issues, I'd like to start nominating some folks. I've got a few in mind and I'd like to delgate some responsibilities to 'em. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 02:52, 20 December 2005 (EST)

== Er... Victory Margin? ==

Did I miss it, or do we have any kind of policy about how many votes you need to be admined or what percentage of approval or... whatever? --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:19, 21 December 2005 (EST)

:Over at the [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Guide to requests for adminship|Wikipedia:Guide to requests for adminship]], they suggest "In general, candidates with over 80% support are likely to succeed, and it is unusual for those below 70% to succeed, but all cases are weighed on their merits." In reality, the decision is made by bureaucrats which, at present, isn't a role here. So it likely comes down to the "Executive privilege" and Joe's discretion. Which I'm fine with. This whole process has taught me a LOT about how things are run over at Wikipedia. Reading through some of the OTHER RFA's (request for arbitration) makes me appreciate how (relatively) little conflict we see over here.--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:37, 22 December 2005 (EST)

== Well, I'm done ==

Folks, unless there's any large issues looming over this, I am done and the process is live. (And it looks like the people I was going to nominate were already nominated. Wonderful!) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 18:16, 24 December 2005 (EST)

== TOS Czar? ==

I know this position doesn't exist, but... can't we somehow make Steelviper something like "TOS Czar"? Steelviper's right. He's a little young (BGwiki-wise) but he DEFINITELY deserves recognition for an outstanding body of work.

Ricimer, as well I think, would fit nicely into an intermediate position like "Battle Czar." When I look at the amount of discomfort expressed over his nomination for Admin. set alongside what I believe anyone would admit is an encyclopedic knowledge and an unparalleled ability to hunt down new information, it just seems... It feels wrong not to honor him somehow. (I'd also wager that he would enjoy such a title :) )
Thoughts anyone? --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 19:32, 27 December 2005 (EST)

: I like the sentiment. However, what would such "assistant" admins do? What privs would they have? What responsibilities? Or is this more of an honorific for Meritous Service to the Wiki? I'd not be opposed to that latter, but think being perfectly clear is best. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:08, 27 December 2005 (EST)

::I think it's a deeply silly idea. Although we may have favored areas of contribution, we do not have "territory" here, and I think that introducing the concept would be needlessly factionalizing. IMO, Steelviper is well-qualified for adminship anyway. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:37, 28 December 2005 (EST)

:::All, very good points. Hey it was worth a shot. Now... how about making the wiki's background color change at random? Ya know. Like a strobe light? ;) --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:19, 28 December 2005 (EST)

User:Watcher

2005-12-28T06:09:20Z

Watcher:

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Uatu.jpg|220px]]
|age= Ageless
|colony=[[Earth]] (presently)
|birthname=None that I'm aware of
|callsign=Watcher
|death=December 22, 2012
|parents=The Sun & the Moon
|siblings=Yule Brenner
|children=None that I'm aware of (heh)
|marital status=It doesn't count once you pass 3
|role=Howard Cosell
|rank=No. I just bathed.
|actor=I ask you... who could?
}}

== Turn Around And Smile At The Camera ==

'''Watcher''' is the resident pundit/commentator... sometimes to everyone else's chagrin.

He spends most of his time on the wiki lurking anonymously or dreaming up third and fourth options for problems his fellow Wikipedians have already settled.

When all else fails... he sucks it up and votes.

Battlestar Wiki talk:Requests for adminship

2005-12-28T00:32:06Z

Watcher: Just a thought

Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship/Steelviper

2005-12-27T23:49:42Z

Watcher: /* Steelviper */ "Yes" vote

===[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]]===

'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:<nowiki>{Battlestar_Wiki:Requests_for_adminship/Steelviper</nowiki>|action=edit}} Vote here] '''
'''(1/0/0) ending <nowiki>23:30</nowiki> 31 December 2005 (EST)'''

{{User|Steelviper}} – Steelviper has stepped up to the plate not only for the RDM pages but has essentially taken Top Dog as ''de facto'' leader for fortifying the TOS articles. In the past a random page for a TOS article would show little content or many, many broken links. Thanks to his leadership and (credits to all other contributors for these articles) edits, the TOS pages at random improve more and more. Steelviper has the moxie for keeping the wiki rolling along and improving.

:''Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:''I accept. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:22, 27 December 2005 (EST)

'''Support'''
#I have to agree. Steelviper has taken up and run with a cause few of us found appealing enough to touch. He's shown diligence as well as a willingness to calmly and intelligently discuss differing viewpoints. Kudos Viper. I hope you make it. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 18:49, 27 December 2005 (EST)

'''Oppose'''
#

'''Neutral'''
#

'''Comments'''
* When I came here, I was just looking for Battlestar Galactica (RDM) information. I was not a fan of the original series. However, as I began to feel more comfortable editing content I saw the original series as being an area where I could make a difference. I've learned a lot about the original series in the process, and a lot about creating and editing articles.

:One outstanding reservation regarding my nomination might be that I have been a member/contributor at this wiki for a shorter time than some of the other candidates. There's not much I can do about that, other than to point out my edit history. If there's not enough history there, then maybe you'll cast a support next time. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:22, 27 December 2005 (EST)

'''Questions for the candidate''' 

''A few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:''
:'''1.''' What duties, if any, would you anticipate helping with? Please check out [[:Category:Project Page]]s for a list of projects.
::A. A lot of what I have been working on lately has been the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|Original Series Article Development Project]]. I plan on obtaining the original series on DVD, in order to be able to help contribute more images to the TOS articles. I imagine there would also be some duties in the maintenance/cleanup department, and I'd be happy to chip in with a mop bucket.

:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions here, are there any about which you are particularly pleased, and why?
::A. I'm particularly pleased with the [[Battle of Cimtar]]. While I didn't provide any of the actual content, I helped merge in content from the [[Cylon Attack]] page, as well as Ricimer's battle template. I think the page looks a lot sharper now, and in the future I'd like to see other TOS battles moved to that format. In general I guess I'm happy with the progress on the [[Special:Wantedpages|Wanted Pages]]. Working that list has helped the TOS pages to be a lot more connected, and feel a lot more complete.

:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
::A. Generally any problems I've had have stemmed from my habit of trying to apply patterns universally. I've never had any problems with other contributors that have not been able to be resolved through reasoned discussion, and I don't see any reason why that is likely to change.

Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship/Spencerian

2005-12-23T10:17:58Z

Watcher: "Yes" vote

===[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]===
'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:<nowiki>Battlestar_Wiki:Requests_for_adminship/Spencerian</nowiki>|action=edit}} Vote here] '''
'''(5/0/0) ending <nowiki>18:32</nowiki> 30 December 2005 (UTC)'''

{{User|Spencerian}} – Nominated by [[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:32, 16 December 2005 (EST)

:''Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:''

'''Support'''
# If it weren't for Spencerian's incredible devotion to the (unfortunately named) Citation Jihad, this place would have fallen apart within a matter of minutes. His knowledge in all matters is much appreciated. "With his help, we have achieved more in the past six ''months'', than we have in the past six ''years''..." --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:32, 16 December 2005 (EST)
# Seconding, although we should probably wait for Joe to finish importing the relevant templates from Wikipedia. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:29, 16 December 2005 (EST)
# Spencerian was the first name I thought of as well (followed closely by the other two who have already posted here). I was going to wait until all the templates got fleshed out though, as this still appears to be something of a work in progress. But what isn't? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:45, 17 December 2005 (EST)
# Can I just vote or do I have to give reasons? I think Spence would be a good admin. I'd be more than happy to direct complaints and hassle his direction. Heh. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:07, 21 December 2005 (EST)
# Hope you're getting over the shock, Spencerian. I'm betting you just got volunteered for a heck of a lot of work. Next time, step backward with everybody else! --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 05:17, 23 December 2005 (EST)

'''Oppose'''
#

'''Neutral'''
#

'''Comments'''
*

'''Questions for the candidate''' 

''A few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:''
:'''1.''' What duties, if any, would you anticipate helping with? Please check out [[:Category:Project Page]]s for a list of projects.
::A.

:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions here, are there any about which you are particularly pleased, and why?
::A.

:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
::A.

Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship/April Arcus

2005-12-22T11:47:27Z

Watcher: "Yes" vote

===[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]]===
'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:<nowiki>{{subst:FULLPAGENAME}}</nowiki>|action=edit}} Vote here] '''
'''(4/0/0) ending <nowiki>05:42</nowiki> {{{Ending}}} (UTC)'''

{{User|Peter Farago}} – {{{Description}}}

:''Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:''
::Accepting, provided Joe approves of the RFA process getting underway. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:33, 21 December 2005 (EST)

'''Support'''
# Is this where I say this? Anyway, I think Peter would be a good administrator chiefly because of the experience I had working out the [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions/Archive01#Proposed Guidelines for Dispute Resoluton on Speculative Matters|conflict resolution guidelines]] of [[Sacred Scrolls]]. I also often appriciate his edits of the material added by myself and others. He tends to cut out the excess verbage and get right to the point. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:06, 21 December 2005 (EST)
# I support this nomination. Peter has a singular balance of administrative, editorial, and wikipedian savvy that may rival any other contributor. His work in creating (and defending the principles of) several key projects that have helped define this wiki into the work it has become has benefitted everyone. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:58, 21 December 2005 (EST)
# I support Peter's nomination for his balanced opinions, moderate voice, and open mindedness when it comes to major changes to the wiki. Above all, though, for his strong commitment to the project. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 09:54, 21 December 2005 (EST)
# I support this nomination as well. A voice of reason in arguments, a solid contributor/editor, and an excellent organizer (through the projects). Peter has taught me a lot in the few direct interactions we've had, and does a good job of leading by example. I think it is pretty obvious that this will not be a controversial nomination. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:46, 21 December 2005 (EST)
# Peter has proven to be a thoughtful, thorough yet concise contributor. He has (far, far more often than not) exhibited admirable patience and a sense of enlightened diplomacy (at times because of his lack of comment). These qualities, I strongly feel, establish him as one of two ideal choices for adminship. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 06:47, 22 December 2005 (EST)
'''Oppose'''
#

'''Neutral'''
#

'''Comments'''
*

'''Questions for the candidate''' 

''A few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:''
:'''1.''' What duties, if any, would you anticipate helping with? Please check out [[:Category:Project Page]]s for a list of projects.
::A. I have started and contributed heavily to numerous projects, and have a fairly extensive to-do list available at my [[User:Peter Farago|user page]].

:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions here, are there any about which you are particularly pleased, and why?
::A. The Twelve Colonies series; various tallies and minutiae; the Citation Jihad.

:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
::A. I have had an unpleasant discussion with [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] regarding the inclusion of [[Timeline (RDM)]] in the Twelve Colonies series some months ago, which I do not hope to repeat. In general I try to maintain a moderate and level-headed tone, which I believe has served me well.

User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr./Archive

2005-10-24T07:35:58Z

Watcher:

: ''For discussions prior to September 2, 2005, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Joe.Beaudoin&oldid=12218 click here].''
: ''For discussions prior to October 17, 2005, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Joe.Beaudoin&oldid=16737 click here].''

==Image Thumbs==
Can we change the background color of image thumbs to black? The yellow links don't show up very well against white, currently. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:04, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
: Planning on some cosmetic changes anyway. So I'll get right on it. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:29, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
:: I'd like to voice an opinion for dark grey or some shade. I think it's important to stand out against the black page background, but I agree the links are impossible to read. I'd been meditating on a proper solution for a couple days and dark grey doesn't entirely satisfy me, but it's better than either white or black. In my opinion, anyway. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:03, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
::: How about the red shade I've implemented? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:04, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
:::: Hrm. Not what I'd expected, but not bad, either. The links are certainly readable now, and it fits more with the theme of the site, so I think it's a good call. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:17, 2 September 2005 (EDT)
While we're on the subject of changing link colors, do you think the dark blue color that's used in the navigational links at the top of BSwiki and for Wikipedia links could be lightened up a bit? They're kind of...dark. On a more subjective note, I think blue doesn't even fit in the red-yellow-on-black color scheme that you fine gentlemen have set up. I'm sure everyone else disagrees with this, clearly, but that's just my opinion. Regardless, they '''are''' just a tad too dark and don't show up very well against the black background.
:''[[User:Jzanjani|Jzanjani]] 16:42, 7 October 2005 (EDT)''

==Image Floats==

When using the extended image markup to float an image left or right without a thumbnail, a red background gets left behind in my browser. At the moment I'm using <nowiki><div style="float:right;"></div></nowiki> tags to surround the image, which doesn't give me the problem, but the use of HTML is undesirable for various reasons. Do you know why this is happening, and whether or not it's fixable? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:38, 20 September 2005 (EDT)
: I'll check that issue out and get back to you. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:15, 20 September 2005 (EDT)

== Military Ranks ==

Discussion moved to [[Talk:Military Ranks (RDM)]] by [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] at 21:46, 17 October 2005 (EDT).

== Logo ==

I found a font that looks like the BSG font and I thought, Joe, if you'd like, I'd redo the logo so that Wiki is in exactly the right font. I'f want to do it off of whatever original was used for the one that's up, if it's still around. That way I wouldn't have to redo some already-done work and futz with matching the gold under the letters. I also thought it might be nice to have a favicon pic. I'm not sure how, exactly, those work, but I understand they're 16x16px, and I thought a W in the BSG font would be nice, to kind of mirror the Wikipedia W, but, you know, with a Battlestar twist. Whatcha think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 22:58, 17 October 2005 (EDT)
: Feel free to make a logo and [[Wikipedia:favicon|favicon]]. I've been meaning to make one, but I'm not artistically inclined. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:18, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

:: Do you have the original image that you could share with me? I'm not sure how well I'd be able to get rid of the old text. If not, no worries, I'll give it a try anyway. Just lemme know. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:08, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

::: Actually, it's just a screencap of the logo that was used at the end of the opening credits in season one. Essentially, I erased the "BSG 75" at the bottom and added "Wiki". However, the screencap came from an inferior non-DVD copy of an episode, so you may want to just go ahead and screencap that same logo, if you have a DVD version of any first season episodes. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:01, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: Oh this project is just too cool! I can't wait. Good luck, Day. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 21:33, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

::::: Thanks, Watcher. I'll go for a DVD screen cap, if I can. The player I use for it (because it doesn't have copy-protection or whatever it is in the normal player that makes all my caps turn to just blak) is somewhat inaccurate with the pausing, so I will probably spend more time listening, over and over, to the final ten seconds or so of the credits than working on the thing in GIMP. Heh. --[[User:Day|Day]] 06:05, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

[[image:Logo.jpg|left]]
:::::: Dig it. Whatcha think? I dunno how to make Favicons, so I'll do some research. I think this thing turned out decently, though. Comments on changes are welcome. I make no promises, but I'll see what I can do about them. Also... why's there red sticking out around my image. As you can see (if you clikc) that's not part of the original. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:05, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::: Excellent Centurian (I'm watching "Rome" right now). Proceed with the gods' blessings. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 21:45, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::I kind of like Mason's. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:54, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::True, MASON's version is very nicely realized. It is clean in execution while simultaneously addressing the concern Day originally raised. I preferred it, initially (due in no small part to its appearing first). However, there is a grittiness and rough hewn realism to the series that I feel is more appropraitely reflected in Day's version.
This is, without a doubt, an artistic conceit and it can surely be argued that this site strives to bring greater clarity to the show (as it could be said MASON's version depicts), but I feel Day's version would be more evocative of the experience that brings people (non-wikipedians) to this site in the first place.
Perhaps Day's logo could somehow be used in the articles intended for public consumption and MASON's on the pages folks like us peruse. (I have no idea whether this is even possible, Joe.) --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:28, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

== Hurricane Wilma ==

Hope everything turns out OK for you, Joe. I'm sure I'm in safe territory to say we'll all be pullin' for ya. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:35, 24 October 2005 (EDT)

User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr./Archive

2005-10-24T07:28:46Z

Watcher: /* Logo */ Thoughts Joe?

User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr./Archive

2005-10-24T01:45:15Z

Watcher: /* Logo */ Zeus (Joe) should be pleased

User talk:Lone Odessan

2005-10-24T01:38:59Z

Watcher: Save the Alamo

== Lone Star ==
Good God! How many Texans are on this site? ;) Welcome, L.O. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 21:38, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad

2005-10-23T10:30:04Z

Watcher: /* Change */

== Citation Consistency ==

"Zoic" is a name that sounds like what Shaggy from "Scooby Doo" would make when surprised, I think.

Despite being the special effects company for the series, I wonder how much of their information still holds weight. I noticed that Peter gave neither negative or positive weight to this source. As we go through pages, two issues are going to crop up, of which one may need to move to the Standards page.

* Consistent and useful '''visual''' separation and identification of TOS and RDM information and characters. I find the mingling of TOS and RDM data in the same article confusing and lengthens an article unnecessarily. More germane to this project, it will also keep RDM and TOS stats from cohabitating and confusing the citation process.
* We need to cite official sources for TOS information on the project page, keeping in mind this wiki is for both series. There are surely more TOS fan sites than RDM, and things like games, fan fiction and the like over the years have surely diluted what is official and not.
* The level of detail or a standard of detail on technical pages needs some kind of governor. At which point is something being reasonable in description (such as ''Galactica's'' rail guns) or is embellishment or technobabble that just gives fan service (like "''Galactica'' uses a BFG-3244 Rail Gun with Strapless Attachment")? I'd be more strict on this info than any other since tech is tech and such "facts" should not be different from what is seen on screen.

I think color coding article titles to identify TOS and RDM pages (rather than using "TOS" and "RDM") may be better on the eye. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:05, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

:I intended Zoic to fall under point 3, for "crew" - ie, of roughly the same reliability as that interview where Lorena Gale talked about how Elosha used to do "a lot of drugs". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:21, 29 September 2005 (EDT)

::I believe the actual word is spelled thus: ZOIKS! Caps are not optional. ;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:21, 10 October 2005 (EDT)

==Request for name change==

I am uncomfortable with the use of the term "Jihad". I would rather we use the term "Crusade", or perhaps "Inquisition"; I think "Inquisition" is best (i.e. Spanish Inquisition [no one suspects the Inquisition!] b/c it's rooting out unsourced information). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13 October, 2005

:Striving for accuracy certainly has better overtones than any use of "crusade", and "inquisition" has draconian connotations. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:11, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:: I, uh, don't get Peter's post. Does that means he agrees or doesn't? Anyway, I'm fine with Jihad because it implies a religeous devotion and a fanaticism that I think could be, sarcastically, applied to the purpose of this project. However, I'm also fine with Inquisition because it implies a religeous devotion and a fanaticism that I think... You can see where I'm going with this, no? Also, the Spanish Inquisition sketch is my favorite Monty Python sketch in the history of Monty Python's being viewed by me. And I'd love for my comments on changing citation errors (if I ever see any, because I'm bad at seeing them) to be "Our chief weapon is Fear. Fear and surprise. Our TWO chief weapons are fear, surprise and a fanatical devotion to citation. Ah. Our THREE chief weapons are: Fear, surprise, a--" You get the idea.

:: I find it interesting that the name and the two proposed substitutes are all tied to religeon? We could have a Citation Rampage. Or a Citation Mosh Pit. Heh. Maybe we should be the Ministry of Citation. I always liked ministries. We would then address each other as "Minister Day" and "Minister Farago", etc. Or maybe one of you can come up with a more [[Wikipedia:Nineteen Eighty-Four|Orwellian]] name. That would be cool. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:52, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:::To clarify: I like Citation Jihad. I came up with it, after all... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:08, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: "Jihad", in this context, does indeed present - shall we say - disconcerting ramifications for those of us who are not Christian. While humurous to most of us (I hate to splash cold water) the casual use of such a revered term amongst a potential audience of Islamic adherrants is a wee bit less than delicate... especially in light of the suspicion many perfectly native or naturalized citizens of Mid-Eastern descent faced immediately subsequent to 9/11... and the suspicion they currently face every time they reenter the U.S.
:::: While rather fascinating that we should find ourselves encountering a problem delt with in more artfull ways in our favorite television program, it is nevertheless significant (dare I say important) that we handle this question of naming with a sense of diplomacy. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 04:12, 13 October 2005 (EDT)
:::::I was unsettled--albeit briefly--with the name initially, but I'm not into political correctness. "Jihad" is correct in definition. Currently, however, some take the word with the same emotional charge as Muslims would hear "Crusade," since, essentially in the context of past conflicts between Christians and Muslins at war, both signify a religious purge. In any case, the term sites a religious note that might sour some.

:::::But before you knock Peter for his choice, consider our subject matter: "Battlestar Galactica" is a morality play in the tradition of the original Star Trek series, which addresses in allegory the Muslim/Judeo-Christian issue present through current terrorism against the West as well as the Israel/Palestine conflict by using the Humano-Cylon/Human and God/Lords of Kobol issue. If nothing else, the use of the term "Jihad" in its purest form is actually appropriate and striking so for this Wiki. Don't let the Al Qaeda terrorists or other extremists make you afraid of a word when in fact, it is THEY that slur it from its true meaning. Peter has always shown a concise use of words that has little to no ambiguity--I should know since he frequently slices my edits to their essence when I use too many words. I'll back up Peter on this one. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:43, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::Taking these points into account, I would greatly prefer "Inquisition" over "Jihad" or "Crusade". -- Ricimer, October 14, 2005

:::::::Good point. And very nicely said I might add. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 13:10, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::: I hope you don't mind, Watcher, I indented your previous post one more. Anyway, I like Johad fine. I actually find it kind of refreshing to use it for something that's ''not'' violent. I'm not Muslim, so I can't speak to that. However, as an American I don't feel, I dunno, threatened by the name, or anything. When I first saw it, it gave me pause, but that pause was me thinking, "Whew. Someone's probably gonna throw a fit about that one." --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:13, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::Well I'm sorry but I do and I have. What's the consensus on this? --Ricimer, October 13, 2005

::::::::::Not a problem Day. I think there might have been an unintentional slip during one of the edits (notice the time/date stamps) but I seem to constantly screw this detail up anyway. Feel free. I may read as insufferably serious but I assure you that's not the case. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 16:50, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::::: Good deal, Watcher. Anyway... I was about to make a post about not wanting anyone to feel threatened by this project, but I find I have to revise that. I don't want ''members'' of the project to feel threatened by the name. I hope people who don't cite sources are scared witless of us. ;) Anyway, as much as I like using Jihad, I tend to like to not offend reasonable people, so I'd be okay with a change, I guess. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:21, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::::::::: A note on nesting - if Watcher was replying to Spencerian, not Ricimer, it should be indented to the level of Spencerian's comment + 1, not Ricimer's + 1. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:42, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::::::::: Ah. Good to know. I shall endeavour to remember this. --[[User:Day|Day]] 22:47, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

===Votes===
We need to come to some kind of consensus, I think. So, first, is to change or not change. If we decide to change, then we can quibble over what to change to. Place your name under the appropriate heading.

====No Change====
# --[[User:Day|Day]] 06:14, 23 October 2005 (EDT)
====Change====
# Reluctantly --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 06:30, 23 October 2005 (EDT)

== BSG: The Magazine ==

I saw [http://www.titanmagazines.com/titanmag/app;jsessionid=57DACB1E3C47F38A718593747C30F921?service=direct/1/HomeUS/$NavigationBar.$DirectLink$2&sp=S8 this] on the news stand at Fry's and thought it was worth picking up an issue to see what was in it. I've so far read a whole of two pages, so I don't know much about it, except that it has an article on Pyramid that was interesting. Does anyone else know anything about this magazine? How reliable is it? I'm going to edit the Pyramid article with some things that are revealed about the rules. How should I cite this, exactly? I'm gonna go with page numbers and title for now. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:24, 13 October 2005 (EDT)
:Given that we haven't had much about the RDM show in print, I'd carefully use it to compare to the canonical stuff we have. If things are consistent, I'd say it's a reliable source since I strongly suspect that USA/Universal may have to sign off on its content. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:58, 13 October 2005 (EDT)
::I say we put it on level 4, (sci-fi and skyone websites), provisionally. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:41, 13 October 2005 (EDT)

::: Correction. The title is ''Battlestar Galactica, the Official Magazine'' even thought the words are not in that order on the cover. And, I must say, the thing was really clumsily edited. There are missing periods, 'and' for 'a', 'their' for 'they're', tense mixing, Obvious typos. Yech. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:04, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

==Citation Format==
Also, we should choose a citation format and stick with it. Opinions? MLA, APA, Chicago? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:41, 13 October 2005 (EDT)
:Damn it, Peter. I knew you were a student. You're going to force me to dig up a book or stand with the kids at the college bookstore, aren't you? :) [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:50, 13 October 2005 (EDT)
:: Are you kidding? I just graduated and never once bought a book on citation. All that can be [http://honolulu.hawaii.edu/legacylib/mlahcc.html found] [http://www.liu.edu/cwis/cwp/library/workshop/citmla.htm on] [[Wikipedia:APA style|the]] [http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/research/r_mla.html net]. I've only ever used MLA style before, however, I'd be willing, given the nature of web pages, to use something that just had footnotes with numbering. There was some tool Wikipedia has for this that I read about, but I don't remember much about it except that it seemed cool. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:06, 14 October 2005 (EDT)
:::I would find MLA with numbered footnotes ideal. For "personal communication", we would do well to follow [[User:MASON|MASON]]'s example of including them in subpages, such as [[Mercury class battlestar/Sources]] (That should be linked to from the main article text, however.) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:16, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: Joe also mentioned possibly that we should scan things. What kinds of things? And, I assume those should go on a Sources page, too, neh? I think for whatever's on the sources page, we could do the foot note like this: (3) Personal communication (''or whatever relevant info''). See ''link to Sources page''. I also think Sources pages should have a link back. WHat do y'all think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:25, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::I Agree. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:14, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::By scans, I mean scans of publication articles and so forth. Scans should not be of the whole article but a snippet of the applicable text that was cited (enough to qualify as fair use). Also, as for linking the sources subpage, I created a template, {{tl|source}} that can be placed next to the applicable information. The template automatically links to the Source subpage. (Format: Article title/Sources.) Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:16, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::: How does that work, then, Joe? The syntax, I mean? --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:29, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

==Character Ages==
Character ages across the site appear to be based on the age of the actors who play them. This would normally be reasonable, but the Timeline of BSG does not match the progress of time in the real world - the characters have aged at most three and a half months in the same time that their actors have aged two years. Since we can't infer ages more accurately than a casual visitor could be glancing at a character photograph, I would rather this information simply not be included. Opinions? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:45, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

: I concur. --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:57, 17 October 2005 (EDT)

==Railguns==
From the ''Official Magazine'' issue #1, p. 60: "Every Battlestar class warship has 24 primary railgun turrets as well as over 500 point defense turrets at its disposal." I don't have access to a scanner to prove that it says that, so you'll have to take my word on it. I'm not saying this is indisputable proof, but that it's maybe more than fanon, anyway. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:46, 18 October 2005 (EDT)
:The magazine is wrong. Based on on-screen evidence, the large turrets on ''Galactica'' cannot be [[railgun]]s unless we drastically redefine the very idea. This certainly trumps throwaway technobabble in a fan magazine. IMO, the only thing that should give us pause is if a character on the show specifically refers to them as railguns, which hasn't happened yet. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:51, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

:: Okay. I'll buy that. I bet that what's actually going on here is that someone somewhere who makes these desicions doesn't, actually, know what the heck they're talking about. I mean... What're we to do if someone busts out a ray gun and says, "This shoots a red lazer!" and then, *zap*, it's green? --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:27, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

::: Oops. Ya did it now. Let's just hope TNS' writers don't become overwhelmed by the details and go the way of Space 1999. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 04:24, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr./Archive

2005-10-23T01:33:26Z

Watcher: /* Logo */

Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions

2005-10-22T10:07:52Z

Watcher: /* Proposal */

Because of their length, individual discussions which we believe have reached consensus have been archived.
As further discussions are concluded, please move them to the archive as well, in order to keep this page topical and readable. If the first archive threatens to exceed 32 kilobytes, please create a new one. See [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page]] for details.

'''Previous discussions:'''

*[[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions/Archive01|Archive 1 (September 10th, 2005 to Present)]]:

:[[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions/Archive01#Verb Tense|Verb Tense]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions/Archive01#Ship Naming, Abbrevation and Capitalization Standards|Ship Naming, Abbrevation and Capitalization Standards]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions/Archive01#Signing Your Work|Signing Your Work]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions/Archive01#Spelling|Spelling]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions/Archive01#Single-name Address|Single-name Address]], [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions/Archive01#Episode Links and Formatting|Episode Links and Formatting]]


----

== Image Sizes ==

I tend to think that images that are whole-screen captures (and thus letterbox dimensions) should be about 300px wide. This is, however, based entirely on how that looks on my browser window, which is pretty large, but not maximized on a 1280x1026 resolution. So that might look horrid on some other screen. Anyway, with that in mind, I resize all my full-screen captures to be 600px wide since that's a nice two times what I think they should be viewed at. Should I be even thinking this way, or should I just be telling the articles to be thumbs and set my preferences for larger thumbs? In the case of cropped screen-caps, though, I think 300px is too wide, or rather, often too tall. How do others think on this? --[[User:Day|Day]] 05:21, 10 September 2005 (EDT)

:Yes, use your preference settings for this. FWIW, I'm a fan of judicious cropping. It helps make smaller thumbs more legible. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:28, 10 September 2005 (EDT)

:: If you're trying to illustrate something specific, sure, cropping is needed in most cases. However, for episode pages and, I think, when trying to show a scene, the whole screen is good for its sense of context. I could be wrong. --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:09, 10 September 2005 (EDT)

==Proposed Guidelines for Dispute Resoluton on Speculative Matters==

''Cooked this up with an eye toward the kind of arguments we've seen from time to time. Weigh in if you find the suggestion agreeable, or if you don't think it's necessary.'' --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:42, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

Battlestar Wiki encourages speculation in areas where you believe your thoughts may be of interest to others. However, it is sometimes possible for contributors to hold two divergent and contradictory interpretations of the available material on a particular subject. This is a proposed set of guideliens for dealing with such conflicts.

*When debate on an article threatens to consume it at the expense of other valid areas, it is suggested that the debate be spun off into its own article, with a footnote linking the existing article to the debate. An example of this is [[Cylons]] and [[Twelve Cylon Models]]. This guideline is relevant for articles like [[Cylons]] with broad coverage of many equally important topics.

*Where two or more serious, diverging interpretations exist, they should be presented in the following manner - an comprehensive and NPOV list of evidence, with quotations, episode references, cut scenes, pod cast mentions, images, etc; followed by headers for each interpretation and a persuasive argument.

*Although the wiki process naturally devalues individual ownership of contributions, many people grow personally attached to their opinions in cases such as these. In order to avoid offense, please be tactful and judicious in your modifications to arguments which other contributors appear invested in.

: I like the way this looks in my head. I mean--assuming I'm getting it right, and I think I am. However, I don't know that it should go on the Standards and Conventions page, so much as a policy page of some sort. Maybe you can convince me it belongs here, though. --[[User:Day|Day]] 19:01, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I think it's got merit, too. However, there may be too much jargon in what you're trying to say. "Exegesis" isn't in most people's vocabulary (it's not in mine!). For instance, if I were to rewrite the paragraph starting with "Where two or more serious, diverging interpretations exist..." it would be simpler to read as: "When two or more interpretations exist, writers should edit the page with "pro" and "con" arguments on the topic, with aired information and official statements from the producers given more weight than personal point-of-view." An excellent evolution of that was the [[Gaius Baltar]]-is-a-Cylon argument I added to that article, which extended/derived itself to the Humano-Cylon page. An important caveat to that should be, "When an argument can be fully refuted based on aired episode and official statements, the refuting information should be placed in the topic and its source. Deletion is not preferred since Battlestar Galactica is a "live" work that can and will change the information in unexpected ways." Someone today, for instance, deleted a item on Starbuck as a possible bioCylon after sufficient evidence was given in "The Farm." However, deletion there wasn't the best bet--somebody might come up with that idea again and we have that ping-pong effect of adding/deleting. This policy could resolve the matter. If we have a preferred page size, too, this could be a gauge for whether an article is going overboard. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:48, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

::: Spence: I added another colon to the front of your post for readability. Maybe I've a simpler understanding of how things usually go, but I think it's usual to add one more colon than the preceeding post. Anyway, to topic: How long after something is disproven should we leave the proof up? I mean--right now there are very few characters about which we couldn't have a <name>-is-a-Cylon theory, but if it turns out that in the next episode there is some kind of conclusive proof that, say, Chief Tyrol is '''not''' a Cylon, how long should we leave the annotated Tyrol-is-a-Cylong theory up? If it can be proven he's not, based on aired material, then I think it's a waste of server space to leave it up long at all, really. Now, debatable stuff, which is subject to interpretation is another matter, of course... ---[[User:Day|Day]] 20:38, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

::::For this particular matter, we could have an article on characters whose humanity is undisputed. This would be a white-list - as characters are convincingly demonstrated to be human, they'd be added. This would have to be based on a fairly strict interpretation of the evidence - Starbuck and Helo are obviously in the clear as a result of the hybridization experiments in [[The Farm]].

::::In a subsequent section, we can note ''very strong probabilities'' - ie, anyone whose existance can be verified 30 years or more before the start of the series is ''probably'' also in the clear - (after all, the Cylons were only gone for 50 years, and must have taken a considerable amount of time to develop from "chrome toasters" to the human models). Likewise, characters whose parents can vouch for their natural birth (e.g. Apollo) are probably also safe.

::::Any character in the very strong probability section who is convincingly disputed could be removed, but I am most definitely not a fan of the logical contortions that lead to Starbuck-is-a-cylon scenarios. I also don't think there's a compelling need for a paragraph in [[Humano-Cylon]] on every single character whose humanity isn't 100% verified, so that tempation should be resisted. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:19, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

::::: I concur on most of that and some of iut should probably be noted on the Characters project page. Uhm... However, didn't someone have some theory about [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]? I don't remember it quite solidly, but I remember thinking it was odd, but not dismissable out of hand. Which is to say, I doubt Starbuck is a Cylon, but because of this theory I would not have a fit if RDM called me up and told me, no, Starbuck is actually a Cylon. Maybe the theory I'm thinking of held less water than I think it did. Maybe I dreamed it. Anyway, I guess this is getting off-topic, so to speak. I agree that we should shy away from <so-and-so>-is-a-Cylon theories because the volume could become enormous. [[Cally]] might be a Cylon. I'm not sure what advantage having someone with her personality type and limited-access would server the Cylons, but she MIGHT. We don't need an article on that, though. Certainly not on the [[Humano-Cylon]] page. Maybe, if it were going to be more than a note that her humanity was unconfirmed, it could go on ''her'' page. And, if we have a handful of people with rather elaborate humano-cylon theories, we could link their pages from the main page... ''WOW'', I'm getting off topic. I'm done. --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:27, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

::::: Yes, let's stay focused on dispute resolution. The who's-a-cylon game can continue on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Characters]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:31, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

UPDATE: Day and I have put together an example of this at [[Sacred Scrolls]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:13, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

: The sample on the Sacred Scrolls page is a good example, although long interpretations could render it something that needs a separate page. On the problem with the weight on speculative observations: There seems to be a preponderance of information that either supports or refutes a POV speculation. For instance, the Baltar-as-Cylon information is still open-ended as we still do not know what or if anything has happened to Baltar before, during or after the blast that leveled his home, and his behavior also supports this idea. On the other hand, Starbuck's origin is all-but-sealed. For any new theories, there has to be a ''reason'' why such speculation is germane and ''evidence'' to base the speculation, whether it be data that has interpretations with different results, or new information that opens up new questions on matters recently believed as undisputable. There has to be a way to define this to a standard. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:03, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

==Quorum of Twelve==

Are they Delegates or Representatives? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:52, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

: Well, the ''Magazine'' refers to Tom Zarek as the "Representative for Sagittaron on the Quorum of Twelve". So, I guess there's that, for what it's worth. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:09, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

== Image Credit ==

Okay... Most images are gonna be screen caps we get from the shows. In which case the credit should go directly to the SciFi Channel, SkyOne Network or Universal Studios. The question is, which one? Or should it be all three? Or does Universal own the two channels and so saying "Cedit: SciFi/SkyOne" is enough? Or... What do you guys think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:56, 21 September 2005 (EDT)
: Universal Studios. They own the copyright. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:26, 23 September 2005 (EDT)
:: Following wikipedia's example, we don't need to credit image copyrights in-text, do we? It should be enough to note copyright status on the image's description page. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:27, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

== The Freakin' Quote-o-Matic ==

It's not very -o-Matic, is it? ;o) Anyway, I think we need a standard for how they're formatted. I prefer the following:

:"The line, in normal-weighted text, enclosed in double quotes."

:--''Rank and Name in Italics'' ("Episode Name")

It would also be nice to figure out how to go and look at quotes entered for days other than the current day. What do others think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 19:00, 23 September 2005 (EDT)

::As far as looking at previous quotes, that's a Joe question, though it would be welcome. Joe mentioned that the template info has to be added manually, but a creative wikipedia might work something out from a large database. At first I added at most 2 lines as a quote, but now I stick to one quote. I think the style you noted worked well (it did for my two contributions this week), so let's see if we all say so. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:50, 25 September 2005 (EDT)

::: Well, if you want to keep track of all the quotes, why not just add them to [[:Category:Quotes]]? Theoretically, every quote should then be linked from that category page. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:44, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: However, it's a bit late for quotes already put up, no? --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:49, 17 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: Wait. Is [[Quotes|this page]] automated somehow? If so, then a Quotes category is kind of moot. I remember looking at it a while ago, though, and it having no date information and just a single quote in it. --[[User:Day|Day]] 13:04, 17 October 2005 (EDT)

== Links ==

So, in my opinion, the first occurance of nearly any proper noun should be a link. Even the thing an article is about. This means that the first occurance of an article's topic will be in bold, which I think is nice. For longer articles, I think linking becomes kind of discretionary. If someone hasn't been mentioned (or linked, maybe) in a while, then they could/should be linked. Also, episode credits at the end of an event description should ''always'' be linked. --[[User:Day|Day]] 15:19, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:Using links-to-self to bold title text is discouraged by the Wikipedia [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Article titles|Manual of Style]]. In general I think we should defer to Wikipedia for guidance except where we feel a justified need to explicitly contradict them. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:02, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:: Ah. I think that's probably wise. Should we, then, manually '''bold''' them (or, in the case of ship names, '''''bold-italicize''''' them), or leave it out all together? --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:40, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

:::Manually bold. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:41, 2 October 2005 (EDT)

==Namespaces==
There isn't much confusion on this, but just to clarify: When content must be disambiguated based on continuity, the appropriate namespaces are:
*(TOS) - Original series
*(RDM) - Re-imagined series
*(Video Game) - 2003 Video Game
*(1980) - Galactica 1980
*(SDS) - Singer/DeSanto continuation

I'll leave this for comments for a few days before posting it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:41, 2 October 2005 (EDT)

==Disambiguation==
There are two approaches to disambiguation between series currently in practice:
*The most popular is to namespace (TOS) content and leave the RDM content at the un-namespaced location - this is currently done for most categories, for example. Under this schema, disambig pages should be namespaced (e.g., "Pegasus (disambig)") and RDM content should not (e.g. "Pegasus", not "Pegasus (RDM)").
*The other practice employed here is to namespace both TOS and RDM content when a collision occurs, and use the non-namespaced article to disambiguate.

I don't personally plan to contribute to much outside of the RDM continuity, but given that this Wiki is given over to all four major incarnations of the show (TOS, 1980, the Video Game, and the current series), I'm not sure its appropriate to give the current series preference.

On the other hand, the RDM series is the only one currently producing new content, and namespacing everything can be tedious. What are your opinions? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:49, 2 October 2005 (EDT)

:Obviously, most of the people looking up "Battlestar Galactica" in google, amazon, or wiki, or anything nowadays are probably looking for info on the new series. We should make that information as easy to access as possible.
::''[[User:Jzanjani|Jzanjani]] 17:41, 5 October 2005 (EDT)''

:::I'm in favor of using namespaces only when there are articles whose names appear in both TOS and RDM. For "Pegasus", "Galactica" and "Battlestar", namespacing was obviously needed. But for "Ovion" and episodes like "The Living Legend", no, since they are uniquely TOS articles. Since information here wasn't intended to naturally slant to RDM content (though for obvious reasons it is), we should strive to keep the balance by adding related TOS links to similar articles as possible. "The Hand of God" RDM page, for instance, should be namespaced since it has an identical name to a TOS episode, and that RDM article has a link to the TOS article (buried, however). I'm becoming a big proponent of helping to make this site THE authorative reference for TOS information: If you have searched the internet for TOS information and sites, you'd find that it's really, really sparse content out there. This site is going to make me rent or buy the complete TOS series (and, Lords help me, Galactica 1980) so I can study them with the same scrutiny as RDM and get their episode and character pages ship-shape. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:51, 5 October 2005 (EDT)

::::Having given it some more thought, I tend to agree that we shouldn't treat RDM content preferentially. On a personal note, you're a braver man than I. I hope exposure to the original series doesn't permanently damage you; it would be a shame to lose such a valuable contributor. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:54, 5 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::When BSG is good, it's really good. When BSG is bad, it's still BSG. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:19, 6 October 2005 (EDT)

:Although I'm sure there are legions of BSG fans who are very interested in TOS and 1980, I think that a more casual viewer will be a little bit lost when he finds a disambiguation page pointing to five different pages which share the same name except for a few capital letters at the end. A lot of people will not be able to appreciate the very clean and precise compartmentalization of one topic according to primary source, because they probably don't even care that there was some ''other'' BSG a quarter-century ago. If we're trying to make things clean and tidy for the fanbase, then compartmentalizing like that is the way to go. But casual fans (which the creators of the current series have said they're trying to attract) are going to stumble a little bit when they see that there was an original series, a subsequent, short-lived, non-canonical series, a video game, a mini-series, and then finally the re-imagined series which is really the only thing that's making people even talk about BSG anymore. I really think that if we make RDM pages default, it'll allow a lot more people to take advantage of the content. That way they don't have to educate themselves on the whole production history of the original BSG, and why the 1980's series sucks, and this, that and the other. It's really easy to get lost in wiki just by clicking on the first linked word which you don't understand, and it's going to distract the people who are looking for the '''''real''''' BSG, if you will suffer my usage.

:: I think people would know what "RDM" means just as much as "TOS", "TNG", "DS9", "VOY", or "ENT". ---Ricimer

::: I think we should use (RDM) for RDM stuff, rather than assume it as default. Otherwise we have to cross-link everything to the (disambiguation) page, rather than have the disambig page show up when the search is run. What if someone's doing research about TV shows from the 80s or something. I agree that people will know, or quickly figure out the abbriviations we use here. I didn't know who Ronald D Moore was before I started working on this Wiki and it didn't take me very long at all to figure out how things are. It's not some intricate, color-and-alpha catalogging scheme. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:40, 6 October 2005 (EDT)

::::Do we have enough consensus on this to make it a guideline? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:28, 14 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::Can someone write up the proposed consensus from all of this? I'm ill and it's hard for me to do this at the moment. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:31, 17 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::I will tomorrow. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:18, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

===Proposal===

Where articles from two different continuities exist with the same or easily confused titles, they should be namespaced with a reference to the series in parenthesis. Appropriate namespaces are:

*(TOS) - Original series
*(RDM) - Re-imagined series
*(Video Game) - 2003 Video Game
*(1980) - Galactica 1980
*(SDS) - Singer/DeSanto continuation

The page at the non-namespaced title should serve as a disambiguation page. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:24, 21 October 2005 (EDT)

: I concur; looks good. Should we note the Richard Hatch "Second Coming" info in some way, as it has more material in fact than the DeSanto works. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:34, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

::Got a catchy acronym handy? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:12, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

:::Either "SC" (obviously) or "DRM" (for "dream" as "in your dreams") :) Perhaps RH as well. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 04:05, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

::::"SC" and "RH" are the diplomatic alterantives, gentlemen. Others enthusiasts do view this site. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 06:07, 22 October 2005 (EDT)

== HTML ==

I, ah, didn't think this was exactly necessary, but, uh... I think, now, it might be. Do we need to make a note about preffering <nowiki>''</nowiki> to ? I see various posts that have several changes, but leave the HTML intact. --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:51, 21 October 2005 (EDT)