Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:The Imperfections of Memory/Archive 1

2010-03-16T01:46:15Z

Walabio: The atmospheric Vipers might be the equivalent of MK # 0.

== Tad support ==

Why can't Heracles/Tad guide Joseph Adama through V-world, leaving him instead to wander around ? Give him a map, Tamara-A's previous locations, anything. {{unsigned|Dante2428}}

==Vipers==
Is it reasonable to assume that the Viper shown in this episode is a Mark I? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 21:34, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

:I've come to think that the TOS Viper's from the BSG miniseries (even if just a Easter egg/homage) have always been considered as the "Mk.I", possibly used before the introduction of the Mk.II's later in the First Cylon War. I saw "CAF" markings on this aircraft at a quick glance, possibly meaning "Caprican Air Force", which could denote it's inclusion as an atmospheric fighter only. In my opinion, this Viper only relates to the Colonial Fleet Viper in name only, with the later being named after the former. [[User:CommanderTony|CommanderTony]] 05:42, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

:: In a sense, these atmospheric Vipers might be MK # 0. The original Cylon-Raiders seem to be a redesign of auxiliary craft like Raptors. I would not be surprised if we see Battlestars like in the original series in Caprica and the precursors of Basestars being civilian cargo-vessles redesigned into military-vessels because is is easy to pack cylons like sardines in cargo-vessels. In other words, the precursors of most vessels in the Battelstar Galactica (RDM) probably already exist in Caprica. Understandably, all of this is speculation and should be taken with a grain of salt.

:: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 01:46, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Virtual World

2010-03-13T05:27:51Z

Walabio: created redirct

#REDIRECT [[virtual world]]

Vinagro

2010-03-13T02:52:59Z

Walabio: Vinagro is perhaps an aphrodisiac or erectile aid.

Vinagro is a pharmaceutical perhaps used as an aphrodisiac or erectile aid. In the [[Virtual World]], one does not need Vinagro for frakking 50 women in 1 night.

Talk:Daybreak, Part II/Archive 1

2009-04-29T04:00:38Z

Walabio: Even with extreme convergent evolution like sharks and ichthyosaurs, they do not become the same species like Colonials and the humans on our Earth.

== Move ==
Why move this? The way I understand this, this is still episode 20, but it will be lengthened to actually be 3 episodes long. So in a away there are 21/22 episodes even, and not 19. However, [http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/06/battlestars-fin.html This] says that the season will be 11 hours and not 12, but that doesn't mean that we need to get rid of episode 19 already. Especially given that the finale will probably air in at least 2 parts. So it makes some sense to have separate episodes guides for two airings. By production numbers this would be one episode, but split apart by airdate numbers. Maybe we should wait for some further clarification. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:It could be split up into 3 parts in reruns. I think it would be easier to start with a single article and then split as necessary after it airs. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::If Sci Fi is gonna pull a Miniseries and air this thing in two parts, we should pull a Miniseries too and have [[Miniseries, Night 1|separate]] [[Miniseries, Night 2|articles]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Which we can do after we know where the break point is. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 09:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

There's no reason to split the article at this time. We won't know how things will be aired until they're actually aired. All we know for now is that the finale's been extended... that's it. Creating two or three sections based on something we have absolutely very little information on is just... ill-advised. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 13:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:The proposal wasn't a split, but a merge with 419 I think (the article exists. It just isn't linked to, because it's an empty skeleton). But the result is the same. The way I understand it, 419+420 will be the finale then, with both episodes running 3 hours together (incl. ads I guess). We'll see. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ah, ok. Sounded like it would be a split, with at least one additional article, seeing as each article would cover an hour. Anyway, we don't have enough information to be certain; it's still really all up in the air, and they have now until doomsday to figure out how to release the thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

==Title==
''Daybreak, Part 2'' (and ''Part 3'') [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/09/battlestar-galactica-cruise-book.html according to producer Mark Verheiden].--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 19:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Can we PLEASE change the title of the page to Part II & Part III -- It is being sold on iTunes, Amazon, etc. and two completely different episodes and this actually screwed me up immensely because I ended up reading spoilers for Part 3 before I started watching it. Yes, this is how it aired, but it is not how it is being archived. -- [[User:Namtastic|Namtastic]] 13:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Analysis==
"Ronald D. Moore appears in a cameo as the man holding a National Geographic magazine in New York City. "

I think there is much more to it. Ronald D. Moore is appearing as himself reading that article because his knowledge of "Eve" influenced the series. In other words, the series is a result of the events depicted in the series. With that scene, Battlestar Galactica becomes part of Battlestar Galactica.

:This is impossibel since as of 2009 mitochondrial Eve's remains haven't been found yet, this scene is set in the future, after the series ended.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:02, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::Checkout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve. First articals apearred in 2003 ;)

It's not the same thing: we've known about mitochondrial Eve since before the series started, but her actual remains have not been found, there were never any bones of her found up to this day.
It's possible that Moore knowing about Eve's existence may have influenced the show, but he has never read an NGC article about the finding of her remains, simply because those remains haven't been found and thus never made their way into an NGC article.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Notes==

I recognised it immediately when watching the episode (and it's already on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daybreak_(Battlestar_Galactica)#Outside_references ), the "Kodiak" spacecraft from Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun can be seen among the fleet during this episode.

==(Un)answered questions)==

The following Ron Moore interview clears up some misunderstandings about the show: http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html

1) Kara Thrace's father was NOT the lost cylon Daniel.

2) The Missiles Racetrack's Raptor (accidentally) fires at the cylon colony were nukes that severely damaged the colony and made it fall from its stable orbit into the singularity (black hole) so the colony has been utterly destroyed.

3) The Earth which is discovered in this episode is not the same planet that was discovered in "Revelations." The Earth of "Revelations" was not the planet we now live on, but our Earth was named after it.

There are still a bunch of unanswered questions:

1) What is the nature of the divine power (although this was probably intentionally left unanswered.)

2) Who were the Lords of Kobol and what happened to that world?

3) How did the colonials get from Kobol to the colonies and if they were technologically advanced, how did they loose all knowledge of Kobol, save for some religious texts?

4) What happened to those who nuked the old Earth 2000 years ago, some of these victors would have survived, but they re never seen or heard from.

5) Why didn't Cavil and his cylons try to re-invent resurrection themselves as the technology wasn't that far ahead of them (it was re-invented by the final five on old-Earth in a civilization that hadn't even invented jump drives.)

6) How could the resurrection hub control all resurrection ships while there was never any mention of FTL-communication on the show and why wasn't the resurrection hub integrated into the colony rather than floating around in deep space, vulnerable and guarded by only 2 baseships.

7) Was the colony really the place where all cylons lived, was their civilization so small (and clearly no match for the colonial military before the holocaust) and are there no baseships left out there that still have cylons aboard who want to exact their revenge on humanity? They may die out like the article suggests, but there's nothing stopping them from taking Earth with them (provided they find it within their lifetime.)

8) What happened to the other rebel cylons? Was it just the 3 baseships that rebelled, and if not, where are the other 2's, 6's and 8's?

9) How did Lee get everyone to agree to give up technology (even medical)?

10) Had it not made more sense to build new cities on Earth and rebuild the advanced colonial civilization, when everyone understood how important equal treatment of cylons and humans is, instead of letting Earth's humans build their own civilization thousands of years later, humans who are likely to make the same old mistakes with artificial intelligence and repeat the cycle?

11) How come no intelligent alien life has ever been encountered by colonials or cylons in their histories, but when it finally happens these aliens are identical to humans, who somehow evolved separately from the Kobol humans? Somehow this amazing coincidence being an "act of God" seems like a rather unsatisfactory answer.

12) Since all the fleet's decisions after the Ellen's reapperarance have been about breaking the cycle, is Lee afraid that by having superior technology on earth the cylons and colonials would "enslave" the native population, creating yet another cycle?

-- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:: He doesn't actually say that about Kara. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:00, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

You're right, I've edited my post. -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

: I'd still like to know the origin of Kara's pristine Viper from her resurrection or how she died going into a gas giant with her corpse resting on a planet light-years away. And what the deal is with the Centurions from "Razor" and the Hybrid they deified. And while I understand his prophesy, I'd like to know why the old Hybrid didn't want Kara to lead a new civilisation to Earth. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Her being sent back with a new viper was supposed to be an act of the divine power. I think the Razor centurions were explained as regular mutineers, they saw the first hybrid as some kind of prophet because of the way it talked and wanted to protect it from being scrapped. Seeing as how Kara was largely responsible for the end of Cylon civilization, except the few centurions that are still left, this explains why '''CYLON''" hybrids call her the harbinger of death (it was never stated she was the harbinger of death for humanity.) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Gully, as for question four the Thirteenth Tribe's Earth got nuked by their Centurions. From the surface, not from space. M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). The Final Five secretly built a ship and rebuilt resurrection (Which the 13th Tribe hadn't needed since first achieving reproduction on Kobol). That was how they escaped. -- [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 04:24, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: Alright, but being centurions the radiation wouldn't really hurt them, they could easily have created their own civilization after the dust settled (a bit like the machines in the "Terminator".) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:47, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Machines can be disabled by radiation, and the impacts themselves would have destroyed the Centurions. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

From the article: “Since the notes of All Along the Watchtower lead to Earth, do they still serve a purpose on Earth?” answer: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen_(film) yes]. -- [[User:LaloMartins|LaloMartins]] 12:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Regarding point six, in [[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]], it was stated that, when the [[Resurrection Hub]] jumps, it transmits its' new location to the [[Hybrid]]s, so FTL communication technology definitely exists. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Adding a question on, the CGI Raptor launched ''16'' missiles, why were only 8 shown after the launch scene?--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 06:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

==== What Precisely Killed [[Margaret Edmondson|Racetrack]] and [[Hamish McCall|Skulls]]? ====

The Marines in the rear of the cabin were killed by explosive decompression and vacuum exposure, but Racetrack and Skulls were in sealed pressure suits. I don't recall seeing suit damage in that quick shot of Margaret's hand falling on the missile-launch button. Did the one penetrating rock cause invisible crushing injuries to both of them? It didn't look big enough to hit both of them square on. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:Skulls whas hit in his face or chest by the rock and there was a small hole in Racetrack's helmet when her hand fell on the button.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

==== [[Delphi]] ====

In the episode "[[Downloaded]]" the cylons were rebuilding the Caprican city of [[Delphi]] and living in it. Was this effort completely abandoned when the Cylons decided to occupy [[New Caprica]]? Or has the effort to recover [[Caprica_(RDM)|Caprica]] continued all this time and is it still occupied? Are there still a substantial number of human-Cylons living on Caprica? Will it become like first Earth before their holocaust, an entirely Cylon-populated society? Are any humans stragglers left alive on either Caprica or New Caprica? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 09:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:They likely did leave the colonies after [[Downloaded]], there may still be some baseships out there, but the cylons on them are aging and cannot procreate. Even if they found Earth within their lifetimes a handful of basestars probably don't have enough nukes to obliterate the Earth's surface, that is assuming they'll actually know humans are living on Earth: it's pretty hard to find a stone age culture or neolithic society from space, even when you're actively looking for them (sure the colonials found one tribe, but in order to kill all humans with a limited number of nukes you'd have to know the positions of every tribe on Earth.)
There may be human survivors left on the colonies but it's unlikely: sure, they may have survived the nukes and the radiation, but the cylons actively hunted them down, probably to populations too small to repopulate the planets.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== The Angels Make Life In This Galaxy Boringly Homogenous. ==

I slept on this, but my original impression after watching Daybreak Park # 2 is that these Angels make things boring:

They create pidgins, dogs, cats, foxes, people, oranges, tuna, et cetera. I would not be surprised if the Angels dropped a big rock on the dinosaurs just so they can have a clean slate for creating rats.

Once they create people, they make the people invent pianos, worship Zeus, Yahweh, Thor, et cetera. They make the people play “All Along The Watchtower”. They see to it that the people create Cylons.

We are not descended from apes, but from # 8s — a little wordplay because 8 and ape sound similar. the mitochondrial DNA of the # 8s is so similar to that of Homo '' neanderthalensis '' that we apparently have a common ancestor, Homo '' heidelbergensis '' half a million years ago even though that is impossible.

If we explore the Galaxy, will only find humans and cylons. ¿What is the point? ¿Why bother exploring?

Arthur C. Clarke in '' 2001 '' had a similar idea of lonely aliens helping intelligent life evolve, but the beings did not care about the final form. In other words, diversity is the rule in '' 2001. ''

We still do not know the nature of these Angels other than that Starbuck seems to be one of them

I do not know how this fits into the article, but it fits into the article somehow. I figure that I should but this on the talkpages for '' Virtual Beings '' and '' Daybreak # 2. ''

----
From Act 10 section of article: "(This is in the year 1987 AD.)" How can it be 1987 when the flat panel TV clearly showed MSNBC logo at the bottom? MSNBC was created in 1996.--[[User:Steven512|Steven512]] 14:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, the robots you see in this scene were also developed after 1987 and as far as I know the remains of mitochondrial Eve have never been found.
In 1987 it was discovered that there had been a mitochondrial Eve, this was based on DNA-research among modern humans, her actual remains have not been found to this day so the scene takes place in the near future (it could even be tomorrow), not in 1987!
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:58, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

== Hera's Mate = Boxey? ==

From the notes section

''On the second Earth Hera's mate that produced children was most likely human. Saul Tigh and the Leobens would be too old for her. While it was fairly common in ancient times for the men to be far older than their brides (particularly with royalty), for example with the female being as young as 12 and and the male being say 60 to take an extreme, Colonial mores, which are much like our own in real life, would forbid the Leobens from sexual congress with Hera when she reach the accepted reproductive age. On the other hand there were many human children about her age and slightly older in the Fleet. She could had also had children with a human child unborn at the time of the landing on Second Earth perhaps within five years to ten years of her age. It is possible that other hybrid children could had been born after the landing given that the Twos, Sixes, and Eights joined the humans. And it is possible that pure Cylon children could had been born to the age compatible Sixes, Eights, and Leobens but as noted in the series it is difficult if not impossible for a pure Cylon child to come to term making any pool of pure Cylon children that were successfully born very small. Cylon-Human mating with a human male with a Six or a Sharon is very possible with the example of Hera herself an significantly more likely than with a Cylon-Cylon birth, but it is harder than with human-human pairings making any pool of those pairing while much more likely and larger than Cylon-Cylon offspring, still quite small number compared to pure human offspring. Therefore Hera's offspring is most likely with a human. A more remote possibility is with another Cylon-human hybrid. Her producing children with a pure Cylon offspring is the least likely since pure Cylons are the least likely to exist.''

Boxey could be Hera's mate. It would make sense.

Boxey as Y-chromosomal Adam? Or would that be "Adama"? heh--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: The chromosomal Adam live tens of thousands of years after the Mitochondrial Eve.

: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 17:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
::Walabio is right and why would it be more likely for Hera to end up with Boxey instead of with one of the other hundreds of children from the fleet?
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 18:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::The ''Y-chromosomal Adam'' reference was to make the pun based on Boxey being Apollo's adopted son in TOS :). As for why it would make sense, it be for no other reason that it would give the RDM version of the character some (belated) importance, which he lacked through the run of the show. Why have her end up with some random kid from the fleet than have her end up with a character who had some level of development? Plus, look at it this way, the original intent according to some references on this site say that the plan was to make Boxey, Tyrol, and Sharon (Boomer) a makeshift family. Having him end up with Hera accomplishes part of that intent as he'd be related to one version of Sharon (Athena)--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 18:31, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It is a moot point. He had NO relevant to BSG any more since they dropped him as a character. If they didn't drop him as a character I think the perfect end would had been making him that guy that was killed in the mutiny, you know the one that acted as a runner between CIC and some damaged area of the ship to get a damage report for Adama at the near the beginning of the mutiny? He was then later killed by Gaeta's trigger happy Marines when he pushed Adama to the deck, saving his life. That would had been a good way for Boxey to go. He would had been the right age (17) and would had gave his character an ultimate purpose, to save Adama when the time came.
::: Of course it is possible for Boxey and Hera to had gotten together. He would had been 14 years old when Hera was born but with Hera say 20 years old Boxey would had been 34, a reasonable age difference allowable in both our and Colonial Society. And further it would had been another of the shows many ironies and "what goes around, comes around" themes: Boxey, who was taken in by Boomer, an Eight as a quasi foster son, later marries the daughter of Athena, an Eight, who was stolen and then given back by Boomer who was then killed Athena. Imagine all the physiological turmoil that could case Boxey. This show thrived on that sort of thing. LOL [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 23:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

== Number Three ==

Couldn't they have sent a Raptor or an FTL-capable ship to find Number Three and bring her to the New Earth with them? It would have been the humane thing to do. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: She was left on a dead-to-humans world, where the only plant life we saw were grasses or other non-edibles, with a background radiation count above the safe level beyond short exposure: even the water was contaminated. She probably died within a few weeks of being left behind. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 12:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:: Good point. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It was established by Athena in [[The Passage]] that Cylons are far more resistant to radiation than humans are. In fact they bombed [[Caprica]] and the other Colonies with high yield nuclear weapons '''outside''' the cities so they could kill the humans but keep the buildings and infrastructure intact. We saw them settling in [[Caprica City]] in "[[Downloaded]]" even reopening the coffee shops, so radiation is of no problem to them (except for the rare special kind of Nebula radiation at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]) So it is possible for [[D'Anna Biers]] to survive the radiation of Earth One and even drink the rain water. Food on the other hand would be a problem and I saw no evidence of surviving animal life, and this all assumes that she wanted to survive, which I don't think she would due to staying on the radioactive rock in the first place. Still, it would had been a nice thing to try to find her. Maybe a miracle would had happened LOL. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:05, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

== "No Further Significant Revelations..."==

I think this statement in the advisory tag is premature. There's still "The Plan", as well as, in theory, the Caprica series, both of which might provide further revelations with regards to Daybreak and the series itself. Certainly The Plan, anyway. Not to mention the presumed deleted scenes that will be on the DVD and there's a rumor Daybreak will be extended for the DVD as well. There's still a chance for some issues to be resolved. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 13:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:That's interesting. I don't expect The Plan to reveal much of anything about what Kara became or who the Virtual beings were, but Caprica might explore it given the establishment that they appear at times when the cycle of time (machine on human violence) begins. Caprica might provide the answers to the lingering questions if for nothing more than to give fans of BSG a reason to watch. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::Let's hope so, though I don't expect they will reveal much more about the divine powers or the angels, ever. It would take away the mystery and the sense that there is something bigger than us (humans and cylons), now we are left wondering if the divine power is a God, or just a very advanced race (maybe the perpetrators (or their descendents) of the first holocaust during the first cycle are feeling guilty) and I think that's how Ron Moore intended it to be. However, ''Caprica'' may reveal more about colonial history: what happened to Kobol, how did humans move from Kobol to the colonies, why was that history almost completely forgotten (was there a colonial dark age) and who or what were the Lords of Kobol? --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:::I'm sure that many people would agree, or at least theorize, that the virtual beings are Moore's version of the beings of light from the Ship of Lights, especially considering what happened to Kara, which I've seen (here or elsewhere, I forget) compared to what happened to the Starbuck from the original series on the last episode of Galactica 80. I think that the reason why Moore must have decided to leave things vague is that he didn't want to "cheapen it" by introducing something like the Ship of Lights into his show, which was more realistic than the original version. Now that I think about it, when Baltar tells Six that "it" doesn't like to be called God, it could be that "it" is the Ship of Lights or whatever version of it that exist in this version of the story. It would be cool if there was more exploration of this in Caprica, as well as further exploration of the "jealous God" from Kobol (which I'm sure we'll hear more of due to this headmistress in Caprica who doesn't believe in the Lords of Kobol) and all the other lingering questions from the show. In fact, given that religion is an important aspect of Caprica as it was in BSG (RDM) I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of this down the line. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 17:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::::Hi, guys. Here's my two cents, since I'm the Senior Chief that added the special notice. "No further significant revelations" means "the story is generally over." BSG isn't Star Trek, guys. RDM has stated that there are some elements of the story that he wouldn't resolve, but that he would resolve the important stuff. Is that etched in stone somewhere? No. I'm sure ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' may open a few new questions. But until that series debuts, what we have is what we have. Battlestar Wiki allows some speculation because we're talking about a work of fiction. But to speculate further when no further answers are likely and people are making what's otherwise original research--that's [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]], and it's not allowed on Battlestar Wiki. For the purposes of this episode summary because its so long (and must be), we have to keep focus and not overload the article. Episode summaries are the only articles where questions can be asked (provided they don't go out of control) but many questions will not be answered. As soon as the noise dies down we can move some pressing questions to [[BW:OC|our special Q&A page answered by BSG co-producer Bradley Thompson]]. In my opinion, the nature of the Virtual Beings and Kara have been answered as far as RDM wanted to do. They are beings of divine source--and folks, religion is one thing that RDM loved to keep close to his chest to add to the BSG mystique. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::: I'm not saying that The Plan is going to answer all the unanswered questions, etc. However The Plan has been acknowledged as the coda for this series, and just as important to it as Razor was. However the special notice as I saw it wasn't just in reference to Daybreak, but to the Wiki in general, and that's where I think it's premature. In terms of Daybreak itself, I agree that any additional revelations in The Plan will likely be minor and there are unlikely to be any in Caprica at all relating to that particular episode. But I think questions that come to mind are still worth asking with regards to characters that could be addressed in The Plan. And unless someone has already seen The Plan, or RDM has explicitly stated otherwise, we can't really predict which characters may or may not be addressed. Something that might be interesting once The Plan airs and is analysed is to go through the episode articles and compile the outstanding questions that the series has left unanswered. I think there will be fewer than some think, with the remainder being just enough to put this series into the same league as "The Prisoner" in that people will still be arguing over "what does it mean" 40 years from now. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== How did the fleet reach Earth 2 / New Earth? ==
As far as I understood it before Galactica departed for the Colony they agreed to a rendezvous location with the fleet. But when jumping away from the colony Starbuck punched in the numbers of the song and Galactica jumped for its last time. But when it reappeared over New Earth the fleet also jumped right in. How did they get the coordinates (a raptor jumping to the rendezvous location?)? But how did they get them so fast? [[User:DJ Doena|DJ Doena]] 14:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:Galactica still had a few raptors left (we saw 7 of them landed on Earth) and 12 hours passed between the shot of Galactica jumping near the Moon and the rest of the fleet showing up, nothing fishy going on there. --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:30, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::The key here was time pressure. Someone had the coordinates, but with the chaos of getting sucked into a black hole, no one could give them to Kara in time before ''Galactica's'' final jump. When all was stable, someone remembered/recalled the Fleet's coordinates, sent a Raptor, and all was good. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:You missed the letters onscreen spelling "Twelve Hours Later". -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Consolidation change ==

Hey everyone! I just wanted to take a moment to explain the format and consolidation change for Act I. This change is a test for updating the event summary because:

*Each detail does not require a bullet.
*Having bullets for every event make it look redundant.

*However, having bullets between major events makes the summary flow a little better. This was the approach I used when summarizing [[Daybreak, Part I]]. It gives each scene a sense of distinction, like this example.

Are there any other opinions regarding this proposed change? If it's OK, I can start work on the other acts. -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 20:52, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:Given the massive data, it's okay to condense a few points. But keep it to maybe three or four lines condensed. Any larger and it's hard to follow. Try to keep it looking like the other episode guides as much as possible for consistency. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for the working guideline. As of this writing, Act I & II are done, and starting on the rest. Hope you guys like it! -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 07:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

==The robot at the end==
I corrected an addition in Story Notes that suggested the female robot at the very end is the one that was unveiled only a few days before the broadcast. That would have been very cool, but it's actually the "Actroid" which was unveiled 4 years ago. Interestingly I found Actroid, a 4-year-old technology, to be more lifelike than the one unveiled last week... [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

==The model on the cover of "Sports Limited"==
Here's a challenge for those who watched this on HD sets... I've heard it suggested that the model on the cover of "Sports Limited" (the SI-like magazine seen on the newsstand) might actually be Tricia Helfer. I can't tell at all on the computer-screen I'm using, but it might be a neat bit of trivia (not to mention it would open a line of speculation as to whether the Sixes have survived to the present day) if it's true. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 16:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

== Questions Section ==

I can never be more blunt than I tried to be before on these last two guides. The questions sections follow strict rules [[Battlestar_Wiki:Standards_and_Conventions/Episode_Guides#Questions_Section]] is the policy on this section. I am going to again clear out the questions section with the bad stuff. Users who do not follow our polices on the [[BW:SAC]] will be warned and if after being warned by doing it again, will be banned. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== Lie-dector test "question" ==

In the Questions section, somebody asked:'' "During the lie detector test in the flashback scene of William Adama's attempt to secure a civilian job, why did the interrogator ask him if he was a Cylon?"''

This was a control question in order to get a baseline from which to compare the real questions for deception. Such as if a polygraph-operator were to ask "Are you a dinosaur?" This fact was made immediately clear in the dialogue. This was in no way left unclear. It's not a mystery. It's not even a debate.

I've deleted it.

== What year is it "question" ==

Another rediculous addition to the Questions section: ''"What year is it on Earth during the final scene?"''

That too was answered by the title: "150,000 Years Later". Go back 150,000 years from 2009 AD, and you have the answer: 148000 B.C.E.

I've deleted the question.

== Regarding my edits to Questions Section ==

I've removed these three questions:

* Why so many zeros in the Model 0005?
* Does either Battlestar Galactica TV series exist in some form on the new Earth?
* Who or what is God exactly?

The first two are completely and utterly ridiculous and do not have any merit as questions. They will never be answered, and it's simply beneath the scope of what questions should be in that section in the first place.

The third question has been pretty much answered in the series by Baltar, who is essentially the mouthpiece of the writers coda on that subject. In the universe of BSG, God is a force of nature who doesn't like the name "God." -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:57, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

== Galactica breaking her back ==

Just noticed, Galactica made her final jump with her flight pods out, maybe thats what caused the damage? I mean the extra forces exerted on the ship because of the higher amount of ship to effect. It makes sense that Galactica jumping without her pods retracted would place extraordinary amount of stress on the ship. Every other time even when dropping through the atmosphere at New Caprica the Galactica always had her pods retracted fro a jump.
--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 08:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

:That could very well have been a contributing factor, but there are many other factors in play, too, namely
:*her age,
:*compromises made during construction,
:*accumulated stresses and fractures from past battle damage and the sheer number of jumps,
:*lack of proper dock repair and maintenance,
:*her last sustained pounding at close-range, and ramming into the Colony.
:And consider that Adama and Tigh were told that she only had a few more jumps in her before she suffers structural damage. The old girl was already falling apart.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 13:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I remember that one of the specialists told Adama that Galactica had 5 jumps left max, but nevermind it I just took notice of it and wanted to see what everyone else thought of it. EDIT: Also noticed that Glactica's flight pods went up and down of their own accord after the jump, maybe thats why they retract the pods? I think the Mercuries could non-retract jump because of the way their support struts are placed. By the looks of it the movement of the pods was absolutely massive and that kind of stress would most certainly break Galactica's back no matter what sort of structural damage she had before. --[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 07:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

:A suspension bridge's cables snap, and the road buckles. Overwhelming stresses on the road deform it, and the cables snap. A similar arguement can be made for the flight pods. There could have been torque forces on the pods, but the loss of lateral supports could have affected the ship's rigidity that caused the body to flex, which could also cause the flight pods to sway, too.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 07:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

==Cylon Longevity==

According to [[No Exit]], Ellen and the others created Cavil in the image of her father, so it stands to reason that, 40 years prior to the fall of the colonies, he was already a man in his 70'(s?) and in fact had not aged in those four decades. It can be assumed that the same holds true for the other six humanoid cylons, all of which were considerably younger than him.

The point here is, if humaoid Cylons don't age then the surviving Cylons who didn't make it to Earth wouldn't have died out as it has been speculated, be it from old age or lack of mates to reproduce with. Their longevity could surpass human longevity and they could be alive at the end of the series.

Furthermore there's the issue of boxing. They could have boxed themselves as a form of suspended animation to ensure their survival and programmed Guardian Centurions to watch over them.

All in all, there are many number of ways in which the humanoid Cylons that didn't make it to Earth could have survived. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit: Now that I think about it, what about the Cylons who did make it to Earth? If they don't age, how did they die out? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 00:33, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

: Perhaps aging was only a non-issue when they had resurrection tech. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::You mean, they did age but then transfered their conciousness to younger bodies? That's possible. What about the option to box their conciousness? They could still survive that way (sure, their bodies might die out without some form of suspended animation given that they are biological, but their conciousness could survive as 1s and 0s that could be downloaded into new bodies 150,000 years later). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Removed questions ==

I've removed the following questions:
* Who were/are the Lords of Kobol?
** Good question, but not one with any connection to this episode.
* What year is the present day?
** I'm not sure what this is asking. We are shown that the Colonial's present is 150 000 years before our own.
* Who is the dying leader? Laura Roslin? Galactica? Starbuck?
** The narrative gives us many explicit statements that it is Roslin, and she fits the role perfectly, making it unnecessary to try and jam someone else into the position. Doing so without clear indications from the show is speculation.
* What’s the deal with Kara Thrace?
** She was sent back by "God" as an angel to guide the people to the new Earth. Covered fairly conclusively, if not explicitly.
* What is the true nature of the Head People?
** They were angels, as was stated many times.
* Who or what is guiding events?
** Something akin to "God", though it doesn't like to be called that. I think this is covered sufficiently in the earlier question about why "God" is guiding events.
* Is Virtual Baltar really the archangel Gabriel? If not, is Virtual Leobon? (Assuming they're not actually the same being, that is.)
** Theory without basis in the show.
--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 23:41, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

== Parallel evolution ==

It is implausible scientifically that Earth humans and Colonials just happened to evolve in parallel without outside influence (possibly from the head beings). Therefore, I wouldn't state it as fact that they're alien to each other -- there is no support for that in the show. The facts are that they can mate and that the characters are surprised about humans existing on Earth, but I wouldn't go as far as drawing conclusions about the origins of Colonials and humans. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 19:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

:It could be that in the Galactica universe humans are the standard of life across the universe, which is why they never encountered other life forms during their travels. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I covered this on this very talkpage [[#The_Angels_Make_Life_In_This_Galaxy_Boringly_Homogenous. | here. ]] Basically, the [[Angel]]s guide evolution subtly by such means as dropping huge asteroids on the dinosaurs so that they can create dodos in their place. Because of these [[Angel]]s life is the same everywhere right down to identical pianofortes playing [[the Music | All Along The Watchtower. ]]

:: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 18:48, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:::Most importantly, don't forget the suits and ties, which were reinvented by accident or through the collective unconscious. Back to the topic, though - all I'm saying is that the fact that Earth humans are primitive in that era does not necessarily imply that the Colonials evolved totally independently on Kobol and are therefore aliens, as the note in the article stated. No need to make such bold conclusions for the sake of "You know what that actualy means?"-type trivia; we know the visible facts, and they should be reported as such, and we know there is a LOT that we don't know about the head beings, which opens up any number of possibilities for future storytelling. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 20:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::::"And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees" The Algae planet could have been terraformed by the 13th Tribe before they reached Earth (maybe they intended to settle there but then learned of the supernova and changed their minds, but not after they had terraformed the planet and built the temple). New Caprica had trees? Wasn't it mostly a desert? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:50, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::::: I shall address the remarks of Graf Iblis, None Of Your Business, and Man of the Atom together:

::::: What Graf Iblis says could make sense:

::::: Let us suppose that the [[Angel]]s scooped up humans from Our Earth, took them to Cobol taught them to talk and ruled over them as the [[Lords of Cobol]] 160 thousand years ago. That makes sense.

::::: About the trees on New Caprica, trees on our Earth come in 3 shapes:

* - Cone-Shaped

* - Mushroom-Shaped

* - Palm-Tree-Shaped

::::: For all 3 shapes one can find both angiosperms and gymnosperms. For the Palm-Tree-shaped we even have some ferns too. Convergent evolution like sharks and ichthyosaurs probably can explain the trees looking alike.

::::: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 23:55, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::: If the same tree species, and foxes, and chickens, and so on, can evolve on different planets without terraforming, humans aren't a stretch. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:10, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::: But the trees need not be the same species on New Caprica.. Indeed, they may have only a superficial resemblance to each other. Despite looking externally similar ichthyosaurs and sharks are very different. For foxes, pidgins, humans, et cetera to be on both Cobol and our Earth, the [[Angel]]s would have to stear biological evolution on both planets or scooped up these organisms on our Earth where we know for a fact they evolved and taken them to Cobol.

::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 00:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::: And the Twelve Colonies, if humans didn't bring them from Kobol (and I doubt they did). -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 03:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::: It was mine understanding that the Colonists brought life from Cobol and terraformed the 12 planets orbiting a few stars in an open star-cluster.

::::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 04:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::::: No one ever said this. Was it in the role-playing game? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:32, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::::: No. It just 1 of only 2 ideas making sense:

# - The Colonists terraformed several planets orbiting several stars in an open starcluster.
# - The Colonists rearranged 12 planets and moons of a star so that they all orbit stably within the habitable zone of a star and then terraformed them.

::::::::::: Nowhere in the show do we see any hint of the capability to move planets.

::::::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 00:52, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::::::: Or there were twleve habitable planets. It's not that far-fetched in light of Earth and Kobol both having humans. If you think that both did naturally. Which I do, since the Colonials had the concept of evolution. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 02:31, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::::::: > “Or there were twleve habitable planets.”

::::::::::::: You want something that cannot be. One cannot have twelve planets forming the habitable zone of a star. Even if one could, not all twelve would be habitable.

::::::::::::: > “It’s not that far-fetched in light of Earth and Kobol both having humans. If you think that both did naturally. Which I do, since the Colonials had the concept of evolution”

::::::::::::: > They could not both have evolved naturally. Biological evolution has 2 components:

# - Natural Selection
# - Random Mutation

::::::::::::: Natural selection is not random, but random selection is random. The solution-space is too large and the process to stochastic. One would not have humans and chickens arising on other worlds. ¿Does Australia have bison or kangaroos? Even with extreme convergent evolution like sharks and ichthyosaurs, they do not become the same species like Colonials and the humans on our Earth.

::::::::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 04:00, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::: "Let us suppose that the [[Angel]]s scooped up humans from Our Earth, took them to Cobol taught them to talk and ruled over them as the [[Lords of Cobol]] 160 thousand years ago. That makes sense." It goes without saying that BSG left people wanting more. One thing I would like to know more about is who the Lords of Kobol were, what their relationship with the Angels/Messengers was, and who the jealous Lord that Elosha mentioned in "Kobol's Last Gleaming" was meant to be. Was he Iblis? Was he God? Was Iblis meant to be God? According to some text on the first season finale's page, RDM wanted Dirk Benedick to play Iblis and introduce himself to Baltar as God. Could this still happen? Did RDM change his mind and made God a "force of nature", or did Iblis/Jealous Lord EVOLVE into a force of nature? Is it that he (it?) doesn't like to be called God because he prefers to be called "Iblis"? Wasn't Iblis refered to as Lord in the original show? (Lord Iblis sounds right to me). Iblis as the one true God who orchestrated everything that happened to the Colonials and the Cylons... wouldn't that be a twist (just like Starbuck being a woman was a twist) on the original? Iblis goes from being Satan to being God... I HOPE that this is explored more deeply in Caprica... How could it NOT be given that it features a religious school, right? What else will those characters talk about if not Colonial theology and the Lords of Kobol (as well as the jealous Lord of Kobol). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 00:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::: I doubt that Ronald D. Moore will ever directly answer these questions. He will probably just frak up our minds even more.

:::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 00:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::: There's a chance that RDM intended to answer these and other questions on BSG, but when the opportunity came to develop a spin off (Caprica) he could have made the choice to abandon these plots and focus on the survival aspect of the story instead and keep them to be developed later in Caprica. With characters like the teacher/nun who believes in the "one true God", locations like the Athena school (is is Athena? I forget), and the cult of religious believers that Zoe Graystone's boyfriend belongs to, there's considerable evidence to believe that these topics will be explored in the series, either as fully-developed plots or just casual conversation (i.e. dialogue spoken in a classroom, a conversation between this teacher/nun and maybe a younger Elosha in the school's quad)... It would stand to reason that given that Caprica seems to be more deeply rooted in the theology of BSG that it would explore these ideas, which might be why they stopped being an issue in BSG, which was more about finding Earth/a new world than in about discovering the "truth of God". --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 01:12, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::: I always figured that it is just another crazy cult. On our Earth, people blow themselves up in the name of the one true god all of the time. The one true cylon-god is nothing more than the one true god of the cult of the of true god.

::::::::: Both Joseph Adams and William Adama are atheists. Lee Adama seems indifferent to religion. I wonder whether this is nature or nurture.

:::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 04:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::: It could be a result of their loosing their family in the explosion. It could be that Joseph decides that religion only results in hatred (it is religion that pushes Zoe's boyfriend into detonating the bomb). The question is in finding the link between the Cylon's worship of the one true God and the cult that Zoe's boyfriend belogns to. Why would Daniel Graystone instill religion into the Cylons? If not him, then who, how, and why? Is it Zoe's friend? Is it the teacher/nun? Is it Virtual Zoe? Why would any Graystone believe in the one true God whose followers caused the death of Zoe, Adama's sister and mother, and all those other people?... Speaking of Virtual Zoe, will she be connected to Virtual Six and Virtual Baltar? Is the one true God really a divine being (i.e. a Lord of Kobol), a "force of nature", or a man inside a space ship (a ship of lights, if you will) who uses Graystone's Cylon and Virtual echnologies to influence Colonial life (well, that might not track given that the messengers visited the 13th Colony 2000 years prior to the creation of the Cononial Cylons, but wouldn't it be cool if it did, heh?). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 13:12, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::: The messengers saw Kobol and Earth as well as Caprica, so they can't be the product of Graystone technology. Right now, the best answer for the Centurions' monotheism is that they're Zoe's descendants. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:32, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Daybreak, Part II/Archive 1

2009-04-29T00:52:55Z

Walabio: Nowhere in the show do we see any hint of the capability to move planets.

== Move ==
Why move this? The way I understand this, this is still episode 20, but it will be lengthened to actually be 3 episodes long. So in a away there are 21/22 episodes even, and not 19. However, [http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/06/battlestars-fin.html This] says that the season will be 11 hours and not 12, but that doesn't mean that we need to get rid of episode 19 already. Especially given that the finale will probably air in at least 2 parts. So it makes some sense to have separate episodes guides for two airings. By production numbers this would be one episode, but split apart by airdate numbers. Maybe we should wait for some further clarification. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:It could be split up into 3 parts in reruns. I think it would be easier to start with a single article and then split as necessary after it airs. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::If Sci Fi is gonna pull a Miniseries and air this thing in two parts, we should pull a Miniseries too and have [[Miniseries, Night 1|separate]] [[Miniseries, Night 2|articles]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Which we can do after we know where the break point is. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 09:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

There's no reason to split the article at this time. We won't know how things will be aired until they're actually aired. All we know for now is that the finale's been extended... that's it. Creating two or three sections based on something we have absolutely very little information on is just... ill-advised. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 13:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:The proposal wasn't a split, but a merge with 419 I think (the article exists. It just isn't linked to, because it's an empty skeleton). But the result is the same. The way I understand it, 419+420 will be the finale then, with both episodes running 3 hours together (incl. ads I guess). We'll see. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ah, ok. Sounded like it would be a split, with at least one additional article, seeing as each article would cover an hour. Anyway, we don't have enough information to be certain; it's still really all up in the air, and they have now until doomsday to figure out how to release the thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

==Title==
''Daybreak, Part 2'' (and ''Part 3'') [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/09/battlestar-galactica-cruise-book.html according to producer Mark Verheiden].--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 19:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Can we PLEASE change the title of the page to Part II & Part III -- It is being sold on iTunes, Amazon, etc. and two completely different episodes and this actually screwed me up immensely because I ended up reading spoilers for Part 3 before I started watching it. Yes, this is how it aired, but it is not how it is being archived. -- [[User:Namtastic|Namtastic]] 13:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Analysis==
"Ronald D. Moore appears in a cameo as the man holding a National Geographic magazine in New York City. "

I think there is much more to it. Ronald D. Moore is appearing as himself reading that article because his knowledge of "Eve" influenced the series. In other words, the series is a result of the events depicted in the series. With that scene, Battlestar Galactica becomes part of Battlestar Galactica.

:This is impossibel since as of 2009 mitochondrial Eve's remains haven't been found yet, this scene is set in the future, after the series ended.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:02, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::Checkout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve. First articals apearred in 2003 ;)

It's not the same thing: we've known about mitochondrial Eve since before the series started, but her actual remains have not been found, there were never any bones of her found up to this day.
It's possible that Moore knowing about Eve's existence may have influenced the show, but he has never read an NGC article about the finding of her remains, simply because those remains haven't been found and thus never made their way into an NGC article.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Notes==

I recognised it immediately when watching the episode (and it's already on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daybreak_(Battlestar_Galactica)#Outside_references ), the "Kodiak" spacecraft from Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun can be seen among the fleet during this episode.

==(Un)answered questions)==

The following Ron Moore interview clears up some misunderstandings about the show: http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html

1) Kara Thrace's father was NOT the lost cylon Daniel.

2) The Missiles Racetrack's Raptor (accidentally) fires at the cylon colony were nukes that severely damaged the colony and made it fall from its stable orbit into the singularity (black hole) so the colony has been utterly destroyed.

3) The Earth which is discovered in this episode is not the same planet that was discovered in "Revelations." The Earth of "Revelations" was not the planet we now live on, but our Earth was named after it.

There are still a bunch of unanswered questions:

1) What is the nature of the divine power (although this was probably intentionally left unanswered.)

2) Who were the Lords of Kobol and what happened to that world?

3) How did the colonials get from Kobol to the colonies and if they were technologically advanced, how did they loose all knowledge of Kobol, save for some religious texts?

4) What happened to those who nuked the old Earth 2000 years ago, some of these victors would have survived, but they re never seen or heard from.

5) Why didn't Cavil and his cylons try to re-invent resurrection themselves as the technology wasn't that far ahead of them (it was re-invented by the final five on old-Earth in a civilization that hadn't even invented jump drives.)

6) How could the resurrection hub control all resurrection ships while there was never any mention of FTL-communication on the show and why wasn't the resurrection hub integrated into the colony rather than floating around in deep space, vulnerable and guarded by only 2 baseships.

7) Was the colony really the place where all cylons lived, was their civilization so small (and clearly no match for the colonial military before the holocaust) and are there no baseships left out there that still have cylons aboard who want to exact their revenge on humanity? They may die out like the article suggests, but there's nothing stopping them from taking Earth with them (provided they find it within their lifetime.)

8) What happened to the other rebel cylons? Was it just the 3 baseships that rebelled, and if not, where are the other 2's, 6's and 8's?

9) How did Lee get everyone to agree to give up technology (even medical)?

10) Had it not made more sense to build new cities on Earth and rebuild the advanced colonial civilization, when everyone understood how important equal treatment of cylons and humans is, instead of letting Earth's humans build their own civilization thousands of years later, humans who are likely to make the same old mistakes with artificial intelligence and repeat the cycle?

11) How come no intelligent alien life has ever been encountered by colonials or cylons in their histories, but when it finally happens these aliens are identical to humans, who somehow evolved separately from the Kobol humans? Somehow this amazing coincidence being an "act of God" seems like a rather unsatisfactory answer.

12) Since all the fleet's decisions after the Ellen's reapperarance have been about breaking the cycle, is Lee afraid that by having superior technology on earth the cylons and colonials would "enslave" the native population, creating yet another cycle?

-- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:: He doesn't actually say that about Kara. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:00, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

You're right, I've edited my post. -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

: I'd still like to know the origin of Kara's pristine Viper from her resurrection or how she died going into a gas giant with her corpse resting on a planet light-years away. And what the deal is with the Centurions from "Razor" and the Hybrid they deified. And while I understand his prophesy, I'd like to know why the old Hybrid didn't want Kara to lead a new civilisation to Earth. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Her being sent back with a new viper was supposed to be an act of the divine power. I think the Razor centurions were explained as regular mutineers, they saw the first hybrid as some kind of prophet because of the way it talked and wanted to protect it from being scrapped. Seeing as how Kara was largely responsible for the end of Cylon civilization, except the few centurions that are still left, this explains why '''CYLON''" hybrids call her the harbinger of death (it was never stated she was the harbinger of death for humanity.) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Gully, as for question four the Thirteenth Tribe's Earth got nuked by their Centurions. From the surface, not from space. M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). The Final Five secretly built a ship and rebuilt resurrection (Which the 13th Tribe hadn't needed since first achieving reproduction on Kobol). That was how they escaped. -- [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 04:24, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: Alright, but being centurions the radiation wouldn't really hurt them, they could easily have created their own civilization after the dust settled (a bit like the machines in the "Terminator".) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:47, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Machines can be disabled by radiation, and the impacts themselves would have destroyed the Centurions. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

From the article: “Since the notes of All Along the Watchtower lead to Earth, do they still serve a purpose on Earth?” answer: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen_(film) yes]. -- [[User:LaloMartins|LaloMartins]] 12:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Regarding point six, in [[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]], it was stated that, when the [[Resurrection Hub]] jumps, it transmits its' new location to the [[Hybrid]]s, so FTL communication technology definitely exists. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Adding a question on, the CGI Raptor launched ''16'' missiles, why were only 8 shown after the launch scene?--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 06:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

==== What Precisely Killed [[Margaret Edmondson|Racetrack]] and [[Hamish McCall|Skulls]]? ====

The Marines in the rear of the cabin were killed by explosive decompression and vacuum exposure, but Racetrack and Skulls were in sealed pressure suits. I don't recall seeing suit damage in that quick shot of Margaret's hand falling on the missile-launch button. Did the one penetrating rock cause invisible crushing injuries to both of them? It didn't look big enough to hit both of them square on. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:Skulls whas hit in his face or chest by the rock and there was a small hole in Racetrack's helmet when her hand fell on the button.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

==== [[Delphi]] ====

In the episode "[[Downloaded]]" the cylons were rebuilding the Caprican city of [[Delphi]] and living in it. Was this effort completely abandoned when the Cylons decided to occupy [[New Caprica]]? Or has the effort to recover [[Caprica_(RDM)|Caprica]] continued all this time and is it still occupied? Are there still a substantial number of human-Cylons living on Caprica? Will it become like first Earth before their holocaust, an entirely Cylon-populated society? Are any humans stragglers left alive on either Caprica or New Caprica? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 09:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:They likely did leave the colonies after [[Downloaded]], there may still be some baseships out there, but the cylons on them are aging and cannot procreate. Even if they found Earth within their lifetimes a handful of basestars probably don't have enough nukes to obliterate the Earth's surface, that is assuming they'll actually know humans are living on Earth: it's pretty hard to find a stone age culture or neolithic society from space, even when you're actively looking for them (sure the colonials found one tribe, but in order to kill all humans with a limited number of nukes you'd have to know the positions of every tribe on Earth.)
There may be human survivors left on the colonies but it's unlikely: sure, they may have survived the nukes and the radiation, but the cylons actively hunted them down, probably to populations too small to repopulate the planets.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== The Angels Make Life In This Galaxy Boringly Homogenous. ==

I slept on this, but my original impression after watching Daybreak Park # 2 is that these Angels make things boring:

They create pidgins, dogs, cats, foxes, people, oranges, tuna, et cetera. I would not be surprised if the Angels dropped a big rock on the dinosaurs just so they can have a clean slate for creating rats.

Once they create people, they make the people invent pianos, worship Zeus, Yahweh, Thor, et cetera. They make the people play “All Along The Watchtower”. They see to it that the people create Cylons.

We are not descended from apes, but from # 8s — a little wordplay because 8 and ape sound similar. the mitochondrial DNA of the # 8s is so similar to that of Homo '' neanderthalensis '' that we apparently have a common ancestor, Homo '' heidelbergensis '' half a million years ago even though that is impossible.

If we explore the Galaxy, will only find humans and cylons. ¿What is the point? ¿Why bother exploring?

Arthur C. Clarke in '' 2001 '' had a similar idea of lonely aliens helping intelligent life evolve, but the beings did not care about the final form. In other words, diversity is the rule in '' 2001. ''

We still do not know the nature of these Angels other than that Starbuck seems to be one of them

I do not know how this fits into the article, but it fits into the article somehow. I figure that I should but this on the talkpages for '' Virtual Beings '' and '' Daybreak # 2. ''

----
From Act 10 section of article: "(This is in the year 1987 AD.)" How can it be 1987 when the flat panel TV clearly showed MSNBC logo at the bottom? MSNBC was created in 1996.--[[User:Steven512|Steven512]] 14:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, the robots you see in this scene were also developed after 1987 and as far as I know the remains of mitochondrial Eve have never been found.
In 1987 it was discovered that there had been a mitochondrial Eve, this was based on DNA-research among modern humans, her actual remains have not been found to this day so the scene takes place in the near future (it could even be tomorrow), not in 1987!
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:58, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

== Hera's Mate = Boxey? ==

From the notes section

''On the second Earth Hera's mate that produced children was most likely human. Saul Tigh and the Leobens would be too old for her. While it was fairly common in ancient times for the men to be far older than their brides (particularly with royalty), for example with the female being as young as 12 and and the male being say 60 to take an extreme, Colonial mores, which are much like our own in real life, would forbid the Leobens from sexual congress with Hera when she reach the accepted reproductive age. On the other hand there were many human children about her age and slightly older in the Fleet. She could had also had children with a human child unborn at the time of the landing on Second Earth perhaps within five years to ten years of her age. It is possible that other hybrid children could had been born after the landing given that the Twos, Sixes, and Eights joined the humans. And it is possible that pure Cylon children could had been born to the age compatible Sixes, Eights, and Leobens but as noted in the series it is difficult if not impossible for a pure Cylon child to come to term making any pool of pure Cylon children that were successfully born very small. Cylon-Human mating with a human male with a Six or a Sharon is very possible with the example of Hera herself an significantly more likely than with a Cylon-Cylon birth, but it is harder than with human-human pairings making any pool of those pairing while much more likely and larger than Cylon-Cylon offspring, still quite small number compared to pure human offspring. Therefore Hera's offspring is most likely with a human. A more remote possibility is with another Cylon-human hybrid. Her producing children with a pure Cylon offspring is the least likely since pure Cylons are the least likely to exist.''

Boxey could be Hera's mate. It would make sense.

Boxey as Y-chromosomal Adam? Or would that be "Adama"? heh--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: The chromosomal Adam live tens of thousands of years after the Mitochondrial Eve.

: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 17:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
::Walabio is right and why would it be more likely for Hera to end up with Boxey instead of with one of the other hundreds of children from the fleet?
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 18:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::The ''Y-chromosomal Adam'' reference was to make the pun based on Boxey being Apollo's adopted son in TOS :). As for why it would make sense, it be for no other reason that it would give the RDM version of the character some (belated) importance, which he lacked through the run of the show. Why have her end up with some random kid from the fleet than have her end up with a character who had some level of development? Plus, look at it this way, the original intent according to some references on this site say that the plan was to make Boxey, Tyrol, and Sharon (Boomer) a makeshift family. Having him end up with Hera accomplishes part of that intent as he'd be related to one version of Sharon (Athena)--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 18:31, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It is a moot point. He had NO relevant to BSG any more since they dropped him as a character. If they didn't drop him as a character I think the perfect end would had been making him that guy that was killed in the mutiny, you know the one that acted as a runner between CIC and some damaged area of the ship to get a damage report for Adama at the near the beginning of the mutiny? He was then later killed by Gaeta's trigger happy Marines when he pushed Adama to the deck, saving his life. That would had been a good way for Boxey to go. He would had been the right age (17) and would had gave his character an ultimate purpose, to save Adama when the time came.
::: Of course it is possible for Boxey and Hera to had gotten together. He would had been 14 years old when Hera was born but with Hera say 20 years old Boxey would had been 34, a reasonable age difference allowable in both our and Colonial Society. And further it would had been another of the shows many ironies and "what goes around, comes around" themes: Boxey, who was taken in by Boomer, an Eight as a quasi foster son, later marries the daughter of Athena, an Eight, who was stolen and then given back by Boomer who was then killed Athena. Imagine all the physiological turmoil that could case Boxey. This show thrived on that sort of thing. LOL [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 23:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

== Number Three ==

Couldn't they have sent a Raptor or an FTL-capable ship to find Number Three and bring her to the New Earth with them? It would have been the humane thing to do. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: She was left on a dead-to-humans world, where the only plant life we saw were grasses or other non-edibles, with a background radiation count above the safe level beyond short exposure: even the water was contaminated. She probably died within a few weeks of being left behind. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 12:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:: Good point. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It was established by Athena in [[The Passage]] that Cylons are far more resistant to radiation than humans are. In fact they bombed [[Caprica]] and the other Colonies with high yield nuclear weapons '''outside''' the cities so they could kill the humans but keep the buildings and infrastructure intact. We saw them settling in [[Caprica City]] in "[[Downloaded]]" even reopening the coffee shops, so radiation is of no problem to them (except for the rare special kind of Nebula radiation at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]) So it is possible for [[D'Anna Biers]] to survive the radiation of Earth One and even drink the rain water. Food on the other hand would be a problem and I saw no evidence of surviving animal life, and this all assumes that she wanted to survive, which I don't think she would due to staying on the radioactive rock in the first place. Still, it would had been a nice thing to try to find her. Maybe a miracle would had happened LOL. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:05, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

== "No Further Significant Revelations..."==

I think this statement in the advisory tag is premature. There's still "The Plan", as well as, in theory, the Caprica series, both of which might provide further revelations with regards to Daybreak and the series itself. Certainly The Plan, anyway. Not to mention the presumed deleted scenes that will be on the DVD and there's a rumor Daybreak will be extended for the DVD as well. There's still a chance for some issues to be resolved. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 13:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:That's interesting. I don't expect The Plan to reveal much of anything about what Kara became or who the Virtual beings were, but Caprica might explore it given the establishment that they appear at times when the cycle of time (machine on human violence) begins. Caprica might provide the answers to the lingering questions if for nothing more than to give fans of BSG a reason to watch. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::Let's hope so, though I don't expect they will reveal much more about the divine powers or the angels, ever. It would take away the mystery and the sense that there is something bigger than us (humans and cylons), now we are left wondering if the divine power is a God, or just a very advanced race (maybe the perpetrators (or their descendents) of the first holocaust during the first cycle are feeling guilty) and I think that's how Ron Moore intended it to be. However, ''Caprica'' may reveal more about colonial history: what happened to Kobol, how did humans move from Kobol to the colonies, why was that history almost completely forgotten (was there a colonial dark age) and who or what were the Lords of Kobol? --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:::I'm sure that many people would agree, or at least theorize, that the virtual beings are Moore's version of the beings of light from the Ship of Lights, especially considering what happened to Kara, which I've seen (here or elsewhere, I forget) compared to what happened to the Starbuck from the original series on the last episode of Galactica 80. I think that the reason why Moore must have decided to leave things vague is that he didn't want to "cheapen it" by introducing something like the Ship of Lights into his show, which was more realistic than the original version. Now that I think about it, when Baltar tells Six that "it" doesn't like to be called God, it could be that "it" is the Ship of Lights or whatever version of it that exist in this version of the story. It would be cool if there was more exploration of this in Caprica, as well as further exploration of the "jealous God" from Kobol (which I'm sure we'll hear more of due to this headmistress in Caprica who doesn't believe in the Lords of Kobol) and all the other lingering questions from the show. In fact, given that religion is an important aspect of Caprica as it was in BSG (RDM) I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of this down the line. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 17:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::::Hi, guys. Here's my two cents, since I'm the Senior Chief that added the special notice. "No further significant revelations" means "the story is generally over." BSG isn't Star Trek, guys. RDM has stated that there are some elements of the story that he wouldn't resolve, but that he would resolve the important stuff. Is that etched in stone somewhere? No. I'm sure ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' may open a few new questions. But until that series debuts, what we have is what we have. Battlestar Wiki allows some speculation because we're talking about a work of fiction. But to speculate further when no further answers are likely and people are making what's otherwise original research--that's [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]], and it's not allowed on Battlestar Wiki. For the purposes of this episode summary because its so long (and must be), we have to keep focus and not overload the article. Episode summaries are the only articles where questions can be asked (provided they don't go out of control) but many questions will not be answered. As soon as the noise dies down we can move some pressing questions to [[BW:OC|our special Q&A page answered by BSG co-producer Bradley Thompson]]. In my opinion, the nature of the Virtual Beings and Kara have been answered as far as RDM wanted to do. They are beings of divine source--and folks, religion is one thing that RDM loved to keep close to his chest to add to the BSG mystique. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::: I'm not saying that The Plan is going to answer all the unanswered questions, etc. However The Plan has been acknowledged as the coda for this series, and just as important to it as Razor was. However the special notice as I saw it wasn't just in reference to Daybreak, but to the Wiki in general, and that's where I think it's premature. In terms of Daybreak itself, I agree that any additional revelations in The Plan will likely be minor and there are unlikely to be any in Caprica at all relating to that particular episode. But I think questions that come to mind are still worth asking with regards to characters that could be addressed in The Plan. And unless someone has already seen The Plan, or RDM has explicitly stated otherwise, we can't really predict which characters may or may not be addressed. Something that might be interesting once The Plan airs and is analysed is to go through the episode articles and compile the outstanding questions that the series has left unanswered. I think there will be fewer than some think, with the remainder being just enough to put this series into the same league as "The Prisoner" in that people will still be arguing over "what does it mean" 40 years from now. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== How did the fleet reach Earth 2 / New Earth? ==
As far as I understood it before Galactica departed for the Colony they agreed to a rendezvous location with the fleet. But when jumping away from the colony Starbuck punched in the numbers of the song and Galactica jumped for its last time. But when it reappeared over New Earth the fleet also jumped right in. How did they get the coordinates (a raptor jumping to the rendezvous location?)? But how did they get them so fast? [[User:DJ Doena|DJ Doena]] 14:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:Galactica still had a few raptors left (we saw 7 of them landed on Earth) and 12 hours passed between the shot of Galactica jumping near the Moon and the rest of the fleet showing up, nothing fishy going on there. --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:30, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::The key here was time pressure. Someone had the coordinates, but with the chaos of getting sucked into a black hole, no one could give them to Kara in time before ''Galactica's'' final jump. When all was stable, someone remembered/recalled the Fleet's coordinates, sent a Raptor, and all was good. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:You missed the letters onscreen spelling "Twelve Hours Later". -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Consolidation change ==

Hey everyone! I just wanted to take a moment to explain the format and consolidation change for Act I. This change is a test for updating the event summary because:

*Each detail does not require a bullet.
*Having bullets for every event make it look redundant.

*However, having bullets between major events makes the summary flow a little better. This was the approach I used when summarizing [[Daybreak, Part I]]. It gives each scene a sense of distinction, like this example.

Are there any other opinions regarding this proposed change? If it's OK, I can start work on the other acts. -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 20:52, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:Given the massive data, it's okay to condense a few points. But keep it to maybe three or four lines condensed. Any larger and it's hard to follow. Try to keep it looking like the other episode guides as much as possible for consistency. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for the working guideline. As of this writing, Act I & II are done, and starting on the rest. Hope you guys like it! -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 07:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

==The robot at the end==
I corrected an addition in Story Notes that suggested the female robot at the very end is the one that was unveiled only a few days before the broadcast. That would have been very cool, but it's actually the "Actroid" which was unveiled 4 years ago. Interestingly I found Actroid, a 4-year-old technology, to be more lifelike than the one unveiled last week... [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

==The model on the cover of "Sports Limited"==
Here's a challenge for those who watched this on HD sets... I've heard it suggested that the model on the cover of "Sports Limited" (the SI-like magazine seen on the newsstand) might actually be Tricia Helfer. I can't tell at all on the computer-screen I'm using, but it might be a neat bit of trivia (not to mention it would open a line of speculation as to whether the Sixes have survived to the present day) if it's true. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 16:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

== Questions Section ==

I can never be more blunt than I tried to be before on these last two guides. The questions sections follow strict rules [[Battlestar_Wiki:Standards_and_Conventions/Episode_Guides#Questions_Section]] is the policy on this section. I am going to again clear out the questions section with the bad stuff. Users who do not follow our polices on the [[BW:SAC]] will be warned and if after being warned by doing it again, will be banned. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== Lie-dector test "question" ==

In the Questions section, somebody asked:'' "During the lie detector test in the flashback scene of William Adama's attempt to secure a civilian job, why did the interrogator ask him if he was a Cylon?"''

This was a control question in order to get a baseline from which to compare the real questions for deception. Such as if a polygraph-operator were to ask "Are you a dinosaur?" This fact was made immediately clear in the dialogue. This was in no way left unclear. It's not a mystery. It's not even a debate.

I've deleted it.

== What year is it "question" ==

Another rediculous addition to the Questions section: ''"What year is it on Earth during the final scene?"''

That too was answered by the title: "150,000 Years Later". Go back 150,000 years from 2009 AD, and you have the answer: 148000 B.C.E.

I've deleted the question.

== Regarding my edits to Questions Section ==

I've removed these three questions:

* Why so many zeros in the Model 0005?
* Does either Battlestar Galactica TV series exist in some form on the new Earth?
* Who or what is God exactly?

The first two are completely and utterly ridiculous and do not have any merit as questions. They will never be answered, and it's simply beneath the scope of what questions should be in that section in the first place.

The third question has been pretty much answered in the series by Baltar, who is essentially the mouthpiece of the writers coda on that subject. In the universe of BSG, God is a force of nature who doesn't like the name "God." -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:57, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

== Galactica breaking her back ==

Just noticed, Galactica made her final jump with her flight pods out, maybe thats what caused the damage? I mean the extra forces exerted on the ship because of the higher amount of ship to effect. It makes sense that Galactica jumping without her pods retracted would place extraordinary amount of stress on the ship. Every other time even when dropping through the atmosphere at New Caprica the Galactica always had her pods retracted fro a jump.
--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 08:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

:That could very well have been a contributing factor, but there are many other factors in play, too, namely
:*her age,
:*compromises made during construction,
:*accumulated stresses and fractures from past battle damage and the sheer number of jumps,
:*lack of proper dock repair and maintenance,
:*her last sustained pounding at close-range, and ramming into the Colony.
:And consider that Adama and Tigh were told that she only had a few more jumps in her before she suffers structural damage. The old girl was already falling apart.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 13:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I remember that one of the specialists told Adama that Galactica had 5 jumps left max, but nevermind it I just took notice of it and wanted to see what everyone else thought of it. EDIT: Also noticed that Glactica's flight pods went up and down of their own accord after the jump, maybe thats why they retract the pods? I think the Mercuries could non-retract jump because of the way their support struts are placed. By the looks of it the movement of the pods was absolutely massive and that kind of stress would most certainly break Galactica's back no matter what sort of structural damage she had before. --[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 07:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

:A suspension bridge's cables snap, and the road buckles. Overwhelming stresses on the road deform it, and the cables snap. A similar arguement can be made for the flight pods. There could have been torque forces on the pods, but the loss of lateral supports could have affected the ship's rigidity that caused the body to flex, which could also cause the flight pods to sway, too.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 07:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

==Cylon Longevity==

According to [[No Exit]], Ellen and the others created Cavil in the image of her father, so it stands to reason that, 40 years prior to the fall of the colonies, he was already a man in his 70'(s?) and in fact had not aged in those four decades. It can be assumed that the same holds true for the other six humanoid cylons, all of which were considerably younger than him.

The point here is, if humaoid Cylons don't age then the surviving Cylons who didn't make it to Earth wouldn't have died out as it has been speculated, be it from old age or lack of mates to reproduce with. Their longevity could surpass human longevity and they could be alive at the end of the series.

Furthermore there's the issue of boxing. They could have boxed themselves as a form of suspended animation to ensure their survival and programmed Guardian Centurions to watch over them.

All in all, there are many number of ways in which the humanoid Cylons that didn't make it to Earth could have survived. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit: Now that I think about it, what about the Cylons who did make it to Earth? If they don't age, how did they die out? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 00:33, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

: Perhaps aging was only a non-issue when they had resurrection tech. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::You mean, they did age but then transfered their conciousness to younger bodies? That's possible. What about the option to box their conciousness? They could still survive that way (sure, their bodies might die out without some form of suspended animation given that they are biological, but their conciousness could survive as 1s and 0s that could be downloaded into new bodies 150,000 years later). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Removed questions ==

I've removed the following questions:
* Who were/are the Lords of Kobol?
** Good question, but not one with any connection to this episode.
* What year is the present day?
** I'm not sure what this is asking. We are shown that the Colonial's present is 150 000 years before our own.
* Who is the dying leader? Laura Roslin? Galactica? Starbuck?
** The narrative gives us many explicit statements that it is Roslin, and she fits the role perfectly, making it unnecessary to try and jam someone else into the position. Doing so without clear indications from the show is speculation.
* What’s the deal with Kara Thrace?
** She was sent back by "God" as an angel to guide the people to the new Earth. Covered fairly conclusively, if not explicitly.
* What is the true nature of the Head People?
** They were angels, as was stated many times.
* Who or what is guiding events?
** Something akin to "God", though it doesn't like to be called that. I think this is covered sufficiently in the earlier question about why "God" is guiding events.
* Is Virtual Baltar really the archangel Gabriel? If not, is Virtual Leobon? (Assuming they're not actually the same being, that is.)
** Theory without basis in the show.
--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 23:41, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

== Parallel evolution ==

It is implausible scientifically that Earth humans and Colonials just happened to evolve in parallel without outside influence (possibly from the head beings). Therefore, I wouldn't state it as fact that they're alien to each other -- there is no support for that in the show. The facts are that they can mate and that the characters are surprised about humans existing on Earth, but I wouldn't go as far as drawing conclusions about the origins of Colonials and humans. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 19:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

:It could be that in the Galactica universe humans are the standard of life across the universe, which is why they never encountered other life forms during their travels. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I covered this on this very talkpage [[#The_Angels_Make_Life_In_This_Galaxy_Boringly_Homogenous. | here. ]] Basically, the [[Angel]]s guide evolution subtly by such means as dropping huge asteroids on the dinosaurs so that they can create dodos in their place. Because of these [[Angel]]s life is the same everywhere right down to identical pianofortes playing [[the Music | All Along The Watchtower. ]]

:: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 18:48, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:::Most importantly, don't forget the suits and ties, which were reinvented by accident or through the collective unconscious. Back to the topic, though - all I'm saying is that the fact that Earth humans are primitive in that era does not necessarily imply that the Colonials evolved totally independently on Kobol and are therefore aliens, as the note in the article stated. No need to make such bold conclusions for the sake of "You know what that actualy means?"-type trivia; we know the visible facts, and they should be reported as such, and we know there is a LOT that we don't know about the head beings, which opens up any number of possibilities for future storytelling. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 20:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::::"And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees" The Algae planet could have been terraformed by the 13th Tribe before they reached Earth (maybe they intended to settle there but then learned of the supernova and changed their minds, but not after they had terraformed the planet and built the temple). New Caprica had trees? Wasn't it mostly a desert? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:50, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::::: I shall address the remarks of Graf Iblis, None Of Your Business, and Man of the Atom together:

::::: What Graf Iblis says could make sense:

::::: Let us suppose that the [[Angel]]s scooped up humans from Our Earth, took them to Cobol taught them to talk and ruled over them as the [[Lords of Cobol]] 160 thousand years ago. That makes sense.

::::: About the trees on New Caprica, trees on our Earth come in 3 shapes:

* - Cone-Shaped

* - Mushroom-Shaped

* - Palm-Tree-Shaped

::::: For all 3 shapes one can find both angiosperms and gymnosperms. For the Palm-Tree-shaped we even have some ferns too. Convergent evolution like sharks and ichthyosaurs probably can explain the trees looking alike.

::::: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 23:55, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::: If the same tree species, and foxes, and chickens, and so on, can evolve on different planets without terraforming, humans aren't a stretch. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:10, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::: But the trees need not be the same species on New Caprica.. Indeed, they may have only a superficial resemblance to each other. Despite looking externally similar ichthyosaurs and sharks are very different. For foxes, pidgins, humans, et cetera to be on both Cobol and our Earth, the [[Angel]]s would have to stear biological evolution on both planets or scooped up these organisms on our Earth where we know for a fact they evolved and taken them to Cobol.

::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 00:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::: And the Twelve Colonies, if humans didn't bring them from Kobol (and I doubt they did). -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 03:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::: It was mine understanding that the Colonists brought life from Cobol and terraformed the 12 planets orbiting a few stars in an open star-cluster.

::::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 04:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::::: No one ever said this. Was it in the role-playing game? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:32, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::::: No. It just 1 of only 2 ideas making sense:

# - The Colonists terraformed several planets orbiting several stars in an open starcluster.
# - The Colonists rearranged 12 planets and moons of a star so that they all orbit stably within the habitable zone of a star and then terraformed them.

::::::::::: Nowhere in the show do we see any hint of the capability to move planets.

::::::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 00:52, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::: "Let us suppose that the [[Angel]]s scooped up humans from Our Earth, took them to Cobol taught them to talk and ruled over them as the [[Lords of Cobol]] 160 thousand years ago. That makes sense." It goes without saying that BSG left people wanting more. One thing I would like to know more about is who the Lords of Kobol were, what their relationship with the Angels/Messengers was, and who the jealous Lord that Elosha mentioned in "Kobol's Last Gleaming" was meant to be. Was he Iblis? Was he God? Was Iblis meant to be God? According to some text on the first season finale's page, RDM wanted Dirk Benedick to play Iblis and introduce himself to Baltar as God. Could this still happen? Did RDM change his mind and made God a "force of nature", or did Iblis/Jealous Lord EVOLVE into a force of nature? Is it that he (it?) doesn't like to be called God because he prefers to be called "Iblis"? Wasn't Iblis refered to as Lord in the original show? (Lord Iblis sounds right to me). Iblis as the one true God who orchestrated everything that happened to the Colonials and the Cylons... wouldn't that be a twist (just like Starbuck being a woman was a twist) on the original? Iblis goes from being Satan to being God... I HOPE that this is explored more deeply in Caprica... How could it NOT be given that it features a religious school, right? What else will those characters talk about if not Colonial theology and the Lords of Kobol (as well as the jealous Lord of Kobol). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 00:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::: I doubt that Ronald D. Moore will ever directly answer these questions. He will probably just frak up our minds even more.

:::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 00:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::: There's a chance that RDM intended to answer these and other questions on BSG, but when the opportunity came to develop a spin off (Caprica) he could have made the choice to abandon these plots and focus on the survival aspect of the story instead and keep them to be developed later in Caprica. With characters like the teacher/nun who believes in the "one true God", locations like the Athena school (is is Athena? I forget), and the cult of religious believers that Zoe Graystone's boyfriend belongs to, there's considerable evidence to believe that these topics will be explored in the series, either as fully-developed plots or just casual conversation (i.e. dialogue spoken in a classroom, a conversation between this teacher/nun and maybe a younger Elosha in the school's quad)... It would stand to reason that given that Caprica seems to be more deeply rooted in the theology of BSG that it would explore these ideas, which might be why they stopped being an issue in BSG, which was more about finding Earth/a new world than in about discovering the "truth of God". --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 01:12, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::: I always figured that it is just another crazy cult. On our Earth, people blow themselves up in the name of the one true god all of the time. The one true cylon-god is nothing more than the one true god of the cult of the of true god.

::::::::: Both Joseph Adams and William Adama are atheists. Lee Adama seems indifferent to religion. I wonder whether this is nature or nurture.

:::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 04:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::: It could be a result of their loosing their family in the explosion. It could be that Joseph decides that religion only results in hatred (it is religion that pushes Zoe's boyfriend into detonating the bomb). The question is in finding the link between the Cylon's worship of the one true God and the cult that Zoe's boyfriend belogns to. Why would Daniel Graystone instill religion into the Cylons? If not him, then who, how, and why? Is it Zoe's friend? Is it the teacher/nun? Is it Virtual Zoe? Why would any Graystone believe in the one true God whose followers caused the death of Zoe, Adama's sister and mother, and all those other people?... Speaking of Virtual Zoe, will she be connected to Virtual Six and Virtual Baltar? Is the one true God really a divine being (i.e. a Lord of Kobol), a "force of nature", or a man inside a space ship (a ship of lights, if you will) who uses Graystone's Cylon and Virtual echnologies to influence Colonial life (well, that might not track given that the messengers visited the 13th Colony 2000 years prior to the creation of the Cononial Cylons, but wouldn't it be cool if it did, heh?). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 13:12, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::: The messengers saw Kobol and Earth as well as Caprica, so they can't be the product of Graystone technology. Right now, the best answer for the Centurions' monotheism is that they're Zoe's descendants. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:32, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Daybreak, Part II/Archive 1

2009-04-28T04:25:54Z

Walabio: It was mine understanding that the Colonists brought life from Cobol and terraformed the 12 planets orbiting a few stars in an open star-cluster.

== Move ==
Why move this? The way I understand this, this is still episode 20, but it will be lengthened to actually be 3 episodes long. So in a away there are 21/22 episodes even, and not 19. However, [http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/06/battlestars-fin.html This] says that the season will be 11 hours and not 12, but that doesn't mean that we need to get rid of episode 19 already. Especially given that the finale will probably air in at least 2 parts. So it makes some sense to have separate episodes guides for two airings. By production numbers this would be one episode, but split apart by airdate numbers. Maybe we should wait for some further clarification. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:It could be split up into 3 parts in reruns. I think it would be easier to start with a single article and then split as necessary after it airs. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::If Sci Fi is gonna pull a Miniseries and air this thing in two parts, we should pull a Miniseries too and have [[Miniseries, Night 1|separate]] [[Miniseries, Night 2|articles]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Which we can do after we know where the break point is. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 09:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

There's no reason to split the article at this time. We won't know how things will be aired until they're actually aired. All we know for now is that the finale's been extended... that's it. Creating two or three sections based on something we have absolutely very little information on is just... ill-advised. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 13:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:The proposal wasn't a split, but a merge with 419 I think (the article exists. It just isn't linked to, because it's an empty skeleton). But the result is the same. The way I understand it, 419+420 will be the finale then, with both episodes running 3 hours together (incl. ads I guess). We'll see. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ah, ok. Sounded like it would be a split, with at least one additional article, seeing as each article would cover an hour. Anyway, we don't have enough information to be certain; it's still really all up in the air, and they have now until doomsday to figure out how to release the thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

==Title==
''Daybreak, Part 2'' (and ''Part 3'') [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/09/battlestar-galactica-cruise-book.html according to producer Mark Verheiden].--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 19:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Can we PLEASE change the title of the page to Part II & Part III -- It is being sold on iTunes, Amazon, etc. and two completely different episodes and this actually screwed me up immensely because I ended up reading spoilers for Part 3 before I started watching it. Yes, this is how it aired, but it is not how it is being archived. -- [[User:Namtastic|Namtastic]] 13:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Analysis==
"Ronald D. Moore appears in a cameo as the man holding a National Geographic magazine in New York City. "

I think there is much more to it. Ronald D. Moore is appearing as himself reading that article because his knowledge of "Eve" influenced the series. In other words, the series is a result of the events depicted in the series. With that scene, Battlestar Galactica becomes part of Battlestar Galactica.

:This is impossibel since as of 2009 mitochondrial Eve's remains haven't been found yet, this scene is set in the future, after the series ended.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:02, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::Checkout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve. First articals apearred in 2003 ;)

It's not the same thing: we've known about mitochondrial Eve since before the series started, but her actual remains have not been found, there were never any bones of her found up to this day.
It's possible that Moore knowing about Eve's existence may have influenced the show, but he has never read an NGC article about the finding of her remains, simply because those remains haven't been found and thus never made their way into an NGC article.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Notes==

I recognised it immediately when watching the episode (and it's already on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daybreak_(Battlestar_Galactica)#Outside_references ), the "Kodiak" spacecraft from Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun can be seen among the fleet during this episode.

==(Un)answered questions)==

The following Ron Moore interview clears up some misunderstandings about the show: http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html

1) Kara Thrace's father was NOT the lost cylon Daniel.

2) The Missiles Racetrack's Raptor (accidentally) fires at the cylon colony were nukes that severely damaged the colony and made it fall from its stable orbit into the singularity (black hole) so the colony has been utterly destroyed.

3) The Earth which is discovered in this episode is not the same planet that was discovered in "Revelations." The Earth of "Revelations" was not the planet we now live on, but our Earth was named after it.

There are still a bunch of unanswered questions:

1) What is the nature of the divine power (although this was probably intentionally left unanswered.)

2) Who were the Lords of Kobol and what happened to that world?

3) How did the colonials get from Kobol to the colonies and if they were technologically advanced, how did they loose all knowledge of Kobol, save for some religious texts?

4) What happened to those who nuked the old Earth 2000 years ago, some of these victors would have survived, but they re never seen or heard from.

5) Why didn't Cavil and his cylons try to re-invent resurrection themselves as the technology wasn't that far ahead of them (it was re-invented by the final five on old-Earth in a civilization that hadn't even invented jump drives.)

6) How could the resurrection hub control all resurrection ships while there was never any mention of FTL-communication on the show and why wasn't the resurrection hub integrated into the colony rather than floating around in deep space, vulnerable and guarded by only 2 baseships.

7) Was the colony really the place where all cylons lived, was their civilization so small (and clearly no match for the colonial military before the holocaust) and are there no baseships left out there that still have cylons aboard who want to exact their revenge on humanity? They may die out like the article suggests, but there's nothing stopping them from taking Earth with them (provided they find it within their lifetime.)

8) What happened to the other rebel cylons? Was it just the 3 baseships that rebelled, and if not, where are the other 2's, 6's and 8's?

9) How did Lee get everyone to agree to give up technology (even medical)?

10) Had it not made more sense to build new cities on Earth and rebuild the advanced colonial civilization, when everyone understood how important equal treatment of cylons and humans is, instead of letting Earth's humans build their own civilization thousands of years later, humans who are likely to make the same old mistakes with artificial intelligence and repeat the cycle?

11) How come no intelligent alien life has ever been encountered by colonials or cylons in their histories, but when it finally happens these aliens are identical to humans, who somehow evolved separately from the Kobol humans? Somehow this amazing coincidence being an "act of God" seems like a rather unsatisfactory answer.

12) Since all the fleet's decisions after the Ellen's reapperarance have been about breaking the cycle, is Lee afraid that by having superior technology on earth the cylons and colonials would "enslave" the native population, creating yet another cycle?

-- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:: He doesn't actually say that about Kara. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:00, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

You're right, I've edited my post. -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

: I'd still like to know the origin of Kara's pristine Viper from her resurrection or how she died going into a gas giant with her corpse resting on a planet light-years away. And what the deal is with the Centurions from "Razor" and the Hybrid they deified. And while I understand his prophesy, I'd like to know why the old Hybrid didn't want Kara to lead a new civilisation to Earth. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Her being sent back with a new viper was supposed to be an act of the divine power. I think the Razor centurions were explained as regular mutineers, they saw the first hybrid as some kind of prophet because of the way it talked and wanted to protect it from being scrapped. Seeing as how Kara was largely responsible for the end of Cylon civilization, except the few centurions that are still left, this explains why '''CYLON''" hybrids call her the harbinger of death (it was never stated she was the harbinger of death for humanity.) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Gully, as for question four the Thirteenth Tribe's Earth got nuked by their Centurions. From the surface, not from space. M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). The Final Five secretly built a ship and rebuilt resurrection (Which the 13th Tribe hadn't needed since first achieving reproduction on Kobol). That was how they escaped. -- [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 04:24, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: Alright, but being centurions the radiation wouldn't really hurt them, they could easily have created their own civilization after the dust settled (a bit like the machines in the "Terminator".) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:47, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Machines can be disabled by radiation, and the impacts themselves would have destroyed the Centurions. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

From the article: “Since the notes of All Along the Watchtower lead to Earth, do they still serve a purpose on Earth?” answer: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen_(film) yes]. -- [[User:LaloMartins|LaloMartins]] 12:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Regarding point six, in [[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]], it was stated that, when the [[Resurrection Hub]] jumps, it transmits its' new location to the [[Hybrid]]s, so FTL communication technology definitely exists. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Adding a question on, the CGI Raptor launched ''16'' missiles, why were only 8 shown after the launch scene?--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 06:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

==== What Precisely Killed [[Margaret Edmondson|Racetrack]] and [[Hamish McCall|Skulls]]? ====

The Marines in the rear of the cabin were killed by explosive decompression and vacuum exposure, but Racetrack and Skulls were in sealed pressure suits. I don't recall seeing suit damage in that quick shot of Margaret's hand falling on the missile-launch button. Did the one penetrating rock cause invisible crushing injuries to both of them? It didn't look big enough to hit both of them square on. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:Skulls whas hit in his face or chest by the rock and there was a small hole in Racetrack's helmet when her hand fell on the button.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

==== [[Delphi]] ====

In the episode "[[Downloaded]]" the cylons were rebuilding the Caprican city of [[Delphi]] and living in it. Was this effort completely abandoned when the Cylons decided to occupy [[New Caprica]]? Or has the effort to recover [[Caprica_(RDM)|Caprica]] continued all this time and is it still occupied? Are there still a substantial number of human-Cylons living on Caprica? Will it become like first Earth before their holocaust, an entirely Cylon-populated society? Are any humans stragglers left alive on either Caprica or New Caprica? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 09:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:They likely did leave the colonies after [[Downloaded]], there may still be some baseships out there, but the cylons on them are aging and cannot procreate. Even if they found Earth within their lifetimes a handful of basestars probably don't have enough nukes to obliterate the Earth's surface, that is assuming they'll actually know humans are living on Earth: it's pretty hard to find a stone age culture or neolithic society from space, even when you're actively looking for them (sure the colonials found one tribe, but in order to kill all humans with a limited number of nukes you'd have to know the positions of every tribe on Earth.)
There may be human survivors left on the colonies but it's unlikely: sure, they may have survived the nukes and the radiation, but the cylons actively hunted them down, probably to populations too small to repopulate the planets.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== The Angels Make Life In This Galaxy Boringly Homogenous. ==

I slept on this, but my original impression after watching Daybreak Park # 2 is that these Angels make things boring:

They create pidgins, dogs, cats, foxes, people, oranges, tuna, et cetera. I would not be surprised if the Angels dropped a big rock on the dinosaurs just so they can have a clean slate for creating rats.

Once they create people, they make the people invent pianos, worship Zeus, Yahweh, Thor, et cetera. They make the people play “All Along The Watchtower”. They see to it that the people create Cylons.

We are not descended from apes, but from # 8s — a little wordplay because 8 and ape sound similar. the mitochondrial DNA of the # 8s is so similar to that of Homo '' neanderthalensis '' that we apparently have a common ancestor, Homo '' heidelbergensis '' half a million years ago even though that is impossible.

If we explore the Galaxy, will only find humans and cylons. ¿What is the point? ¿Why bother exploring?

Arthur C. Clarke in '' 2001 '' had a similar idea of lonely aliens helping intelligent life evolve, but the beings did not care about the final form. In other words, diversity is the rule in '' 2001. ''

We still do not know the nature of these Angels other than that Starbuck seems to be one of them

I do not know how this fits into the article, but it fits into the article somehow. I figure that I should but this on the talkpages for '' Virtual Beings '' and '' Daybreak # 2. ''

----
From Act 10 section of article: "(This is in the year 1987 AD.)" How can it be 1987 when the flat panel TV clearly showed MSNBC logo at the bottom? MSNBC was created in 1996.--[[User:Steven512|Steven512]] 14:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, the robots you see in this scene were also developed after 1987 and as far as I know the remains of mitochondrial Eve have never been found.
In 1987 it was discovered that there had been a mitochondrial Eve, this was based on DNA-research among modern humans, her actual remains have not been found to this day so the scene takes place in the near future (it could even be tomorrow), not in 1987!
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:58, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

== Hera's Mate = Boxey? ==

From the notes section

''On the second Earth Hera's mate that produced children was most likely human. Saul Tigh and the Leobens would be too old for her. While it was fairly common in ancient times for the men to be far older than their brides (particularly with royalty), for example with the female being as young as 12 and and the male being say 60 to take an extreme, Colonial mores, which are much like our own in real life, would forbid the Leobens from sexual congress with Hera when she reach the accepted reproductive age. On the other hand there were many human children about her age and slightly older in the Fleet. She could had also had children with a human child unborn at the time of the landing on Second Earth perhaps within five years to ten years of her age. It is possible that other hybrid children could had been born after the landing given that the Twos, Sixes, and Eights joined the humans. And it is possible that pure Cylon children could had been born to the age compatible Sixes, Eights, and Leobens but as noted in the series it is difficult if not impossible for a pure Cylon child to come to term making any pool of pure Cylon children that were successfully born very small. Cylon-Human mating with a human male with a Six or a Sharon is very possible with the example of Hera herself an significantly more likely than with a Cylon-Cylon birth, but it is harder than with human-human pairings making any pool of those pairing while much more likely and larger than Cylon-Cylon offspring, still quite small number compared to pure human offspring. Therefore Hera's offspring is most likely with a human. A more remote possibility is with another Cylon-human hybrid. Her producing children with a pure Cylon offspring is the least likely since pure Cylons are the least likely to exist.''

Boxey could be Hera's mate. It would make sense.

Boxey as Y-chromosomal Adam? Or would that be "Adama"? heh--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: The chromosomal Adam live tens of thousands of years after the Mitochondrial Eve.

: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 17:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
::Walabio is right and why would it be more likely for Hera to end up with Boxey instead of with one of the other hundreds of children from the fleet?
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 18:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::The ''Y-chromosomal Adam'' reference was to make the pun based on Boxey being Apollo's adopted son in TOS :). As for why it would make sense, it be for no other reason that it would give the RDM version of the character some (belated) importance, which he lacked through the run of the show. Why have her end up with some random kid from the fleet than have her end up with a character who had some level of development? Plus, look at it this way, the original intent according to some references on this site say that the plan was to make Boxey, Tyrol, and Sharon (Boomer) a makeshift family. Having him end up with Hera accomplishes part of that intent as he'd be related to one version of Sharon (Athena)--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 18:31, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It is a moot point. He had NO relevant to BSG any more since they dropped him as a character. If they didn't drop him as a character I think the perfect end would had been making him that guy that was killed in the mutiny, you know the one that acted as a runner between CIC and some damaged area of the ship to get a damage report for Adama at the near the beginning of the mutiny? He was then later killed by Gaeta's trigger happy Marines when he pushed Adama to the deck, saving his life. That would had been a good way for Boxey to go. He would had been the right age (17) and would had gave his character an ultimate purpose, to save Adama when the time came.
::: Of course it is possible for Boxey and Hera to had gotten together. He would had been 14 years old when Hera was born but with Hera say 20 years old Boxey would had been 34, a reasonable age difference allowable in both our and Colonial Society. And further it would had been another of the shows many ironies and "what goes around, comes around" themes: Boxey, who was taken in by Boomer, an Eight as a quasi foster son, later marries the daughter of Athena, an Eight, who was stolen and then given back by Boomer who was then killed Athena. Imagine all the physiological turmoil that could case Boxey. This show thrived on that sort of thing. LOL [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 23:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

== Number Three ==

Couldn't they have sent a Raptor or an FTL-capable ship to find Number Three and bring her to the New Earth with them? It would have been the humane thing to do. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: She was left on a dead-to-humans world, where the only plant life we saw were grasses or other non-edibles, with a background radiation count above the safe level beyond short exposure: even the water was contaminated. She probably died within a few weeks of being left behind. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 12:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:: Good point. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It was established by Athena in [[The Passage]] that Cylons are far more resistant to radiation than humans are. In fact they bombed [[Caprica]] and the other Colonies with high yield nuclear weapons '''outside''' the cities so they could kill the humans but keep the buildings and infrastructure intact. We saw them settling in [[Caprica City]] in "[[Downloaded]]" even reopening the coffee shops, so radiation is of no problem to them (except for the rare special kind of Nebula radiation at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]) So it is possible for [[D'Anna Biers]] to survive the radiation of Earth One and even drink the rain water. Food on the other hand would be a problem and I saw no evidence of surviving animal life, and this all assumes that she wanted to survive, which I don't think she would due to staying on the radioactive rock in the first place. Still, it would had been a nice thing to try to find her. Maybe a miracle would had happened LOL. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:05, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

== "No Further Significant Revelations..."==

I think this statement in the advisory tag is premature. There's still "The Plan", as well as, in theory, the Caprica series, both of which might provide further revelations with regards to Daybreak and the series itself. Certainly The Plan, anyway. Not to mention the presumed deleted scenes that will be on the DVD and there's a rumor Daybreak will be extended for the DVD as well. There's still a chance for some issues to be resolved. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 13:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:That's interesting. I don't expect The Plan to reveal much of anything about what Kara became or who the Virtual beings were, but Caprica might explore it given the establishment that they appear at times when the cycle of time (machine on human violence) begins. Caprica might provide the answers to the lingering questions if for nothing more than to give fans of BSG a reason to watch. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::Let's hope so, though I don't expect they will reveal much more about the divine powers or the angels, ever. It would take away the mystery and the sense that there is something bigger than us (humans and cylons), now we are left wondering if the divine power is a God, or just a very advanced race (maybe the perpetrators (or their descendents) of the first holocaust during the first cycle are feeling guilty) and I think that's how Ron Moore intended it to be. However, ''Caprica'' may reveal more about colonial history: what happened to Kobol, how did humans move from Kobol to the colonies, why was that history almost completely forgotten (was there a colonial dark age) and who or what were the Lords of Kobol? --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:::I'm sure that many people would agree, or at least theorize, that the virtual beings are Moore's version of the beings of light from the Ship of Lights, especially considering what happened to Kara, which I've seen (here or elsewhere, I forget) compared to what happened to the Starbuck from the original series on the last episode of Galactica 80. I think that the reason why Moore must have decided to leave things vague is that he didn't want to "cheapen it" by introducing something like the Ship of Lights into his show, which was more realistic than the original version. Now that I think about it, when Baltar tells Six that "it" doesn't like to be called God, it could be that "it" is the Ship of Lights or whatever version of it that exist in this version of the story. It would be cool if there was more exploration of this in Caprica, as well as further exploration of the "jealous God" from Kobol (which I'm sure we'll hear more of due to this headmistress in Caprica who doesn't believe in the Lords of Kobol) and all the other lingering questions from the show. In fact, given that religion is an important aspect of Caprica as it was in BSG (RDM) I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of this down the line. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 17:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::::Hi, guys. Here's my two cents, since I'm the Senior Chief that added the special notice. "No further significant revelations" means "the story is generally over." BSG isn't Star Trek, guys. RDM has stated that there are some elements of the story that he wouldn't resolve, but that he would resolve the important stuff. Is that etched in stone somewhere? No. I'm sure ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' may open a few new questions. But until that series debuts, what we have is what we have. Battlestar Wiki allows some speculation because we're talking about a work of fiction. But to speculate further when no further answers are likely and people are making what's otherwise original research--that's [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]], and it's not allowed on Battlestar Wiki. For the purposes of this episode summary because its so long (and must be), we have to keep focus and not overload the article. Episode summaries are the only articles where questions can be asked (provided they don't go out of control) but many questions will not be answered. As soon as the noise dies down we can move some pressing questions to [[BW:OC|our special Q&A page answered by BSG co-producer Bradley Thompson]]. In my opinion, the nature of the Virtual Beings and Kara have been answered as far as RDM wanted to do. They are beings of divine source--and folks, religion is one thing that RDM loved to keep close to his chest to add to the BSG mystique. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::: I'm not saying that The Plan is going to answer all the unanswered questions, etc. However The Plan has been acknowledged as the coda for this series, and just as important to it as Razor was. However the special notice as I saw it wasn't just in reference to Daybreak, but to the Wiki in general, and that's where I think it's premature. In terms of Daybreak itself, I agree that any additional revelations in The Plan will likely be minor and there are unlikely to be any in Caprica at all relating to that particular episode. But I think questions that come to mind are still worth asking with regards to characters that could be addressed in The Plan. And unless someone has already seen The Plan, or RDM has explicitly stated otherwise, we can't really predict which characters may or may not be addressed. Something that might be interesting once The Plan airs and is analysed is to go through the episode articles and compile the outstanding questions that the series has left unanswered. I think there will be fewer than some think, with the remainder being just enough to put this series into the same league as "The Prisoner" in that people will still be arguing over "what does it mean" 40 years from now. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== How did the fleet reach Earth 2 / New Earth? ==
As far as I understood it before Galactica departed for the Colony they agreed to a rendezvous location with the fleet. But when jumping away from the colony Starbuck punched in the numbers of the song and Galactica jumped for its last time. But when it reappeared over New Earth the fleet also jumped right in. How did they get the coordinates (a raptor jumping to the rendezvous location?)? But how did they get them so fast? [[User:DJ Doena|DJ Doena]] 14:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:Galactica still had a few raptors left (we saw 7 of them landed on Earth) and 12 hours passed between the shot of Galactica jumping near the Moon and the rest of the fleet showing up, nothing fishy going on there. --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:30, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::The key here was time pressure. Someone had the coordinates, but with the chaos of getting sucked into a black hole, no one could give them to Kara in time before ''Galactica's'' final jump. When all was stable, someone remembered/recalled the Fleet's coordinates, sent a Raptor, and all was good. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:You missed the letters onscreen spelling "Twelve Hours Later". -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Consolidation change ==

Hey everyone! I just wanted to take a moment to explain the format and consolidation change for Act I. This change is a test for updating the event summary because:

*Each detail does not require a bullet.
*Having bullets for every event make it look redundant.

*However, having bullets between major events makes the summary flow a little better. This was the approach I used when summarizing [[Daybreak, Part I]]. It gives each scene a sense of distinction, like this example.

Are there any other opinions regarding this proposed change? If it's OK, I can start work on the other acts. -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 20:52, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:Given the massive data, it's okay to condense a few points. But keep it to maybe three or four lines condensed. Any larger and it's hard to follow. Try to keep it looking like the other episode guides as much as possible for consistency. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for the working guideline. As of this writing, Act I & II are done, and starting on the rest. Hope you guys like it! -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 07:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

==The robot at the end==
I corrected an addition in Story Notes that suggested the female robot at the very end is the one that was unveiled only a few days before the broadcast. That would have been very cool, but it's actually the "Actroid" which was unveiled 4 years ago. Interestingly I found Actroid, a 4-year-old technology, to be more lifelike than the one unveiled last week... [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

==The model on the cover of "Sports Limited"==
Here's a challenge for those who watched this on HD sets... I've heard it suggested that the model on the cover of "Sports Limited" (the SI-like magazine seen on the newsstand) might actually be Tricia Helfer. I can't tell at all on the computer-screen I'm using, but it might be a neat bit of trivia (not to mention it would open a line of speculation as to whether the Sixes have survived to the present day) if it's true. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 16:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

== Questions Section ==

I can never be more blunt than I tried to be before on these last two guides. The questions sections follow strict rules [[Battlestar_Wiki:Standards_and_Conventions/Episode_Guides#Questions_Section]] is the policy on this section. I am going to again clear out the questions section with the bad stuff. Users who do not follow our polices on the [[BW:SAC]] will be warned and if after being warned by doing it again, will be banned. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== Lie-dector test "question" ==

In the Questions section, somebody asked:'' "During the lie detector test in the flashback scene of William Adama's attempt to secure a civilian job, why did the interrogator ask him if he was a Cylon?"''

This was a control question in order to get a baseline from which to compare the real questions for deception. Such as if a polygraph-operator were to ask "Are you a dinosaur?" This fact was made immediately clear in the dialogue. This was in no way left unclear. It's not a mystery. It's not even a debate.

I've deleted it.

== What year is it "question" ==

Another rediculous addition to the Questions section: ''"What year is it on Earth during the final scene?"''

That too was answered by the title: "150,000 Years Later". Go back 150,000 years from 2009 AD, and you have the answer: 148000 B.C.E.

I've deleted the question.

== Regarding my edits to Questions Section ==

I've removed these three questions:

* Why so many zeros in the Model 0005?
* Does either Battlestar Galactica TV series exist in some form on the new Earth?
* Who or what is God exactly?

The first two are completely and utterly ridiculous and do not have any merit as questions. They will never be answered, and it's simply beneath the scope of what questions should be in that section in the first place.

The third question has been pretty much answered in the series by Baltar, who is essentially the mouthpiece of the writers coda on that subject. In the universe of BSG, God is a force of nature who doesn't like the name "God." -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:57, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

== Galactica breaking her back ==

Just noticed, Galactica made her final jump with her flight pods out, maybe thats what caused the damage? I mean the extra forces exerted on the ship because of the higher amount of ship to effect. It makes sense that Galactica jumping without her pods retracted would place extraordinary amount of stress on the ship. Every other time even when dropping through the atmosphere at New Caprica the Galactica always had her pods retracted fro a jump.
--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 08:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

:That could very well have been a contributing factor, but there are many other factors in play, too, namely
:*her age,
:*compromises made during construction,
:*accumulated stresses and fractures from past battle damage and the sheer number of jumps,
:*lack of proper dock repair and maintenance,
:*her last sustained pounding at close-range, and ramming into the Colony.
:And consider that Adama and Tigh were told that she only had a few more jumps in her before she suffers structural damage. The old girl was already falling apart.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 13:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I remember that one of the specialists told Adama that Galactica had 5 jumps left max, but nevermind it I just took notice of it and wanted to see what everyone else thought of it. EDIT: Also noticed that Glactica's flight pods went up and down of their own accord after the jump, maybe thats why they retract the pods? I think the Mercuries could non-retract jump because of the way their support struts are placed. By the looks of it the movement of the pods was absolutely massive and that kind of stress would most certainly break Galactica's back no matter what sort of structural damage she had before. --[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 07:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

==Cylon Longevity==

According to [[No Exit]], Ellen and the others created Cavil in the image of her father, so it stands to reason that, 40 years prior to the fall of the colonies, he was already a man in his 70'(s?) and in fact had not aged in those four decades. It can be assumed that the same holds true for the other six humanoid cylons, all of which were considerably younger than him.

The point here is, if humaoid Cylons don't age then the surviving Cylons who didn't make it to Earth wouldn't have died out as it has been speculated, be it from old age or lack of mates to reproduce with. Their longevity could surpass human longevity and they could be alive at the end of the series.

Furthermore there's the issue of boxing. They could have boxed themselves as a form of suspended animation to ensure their survival and programmed Guardian Centurions to watch over them.

All in all, there are many number of ways in which the humanoid Cylons that didn't make it to Earth could have survived. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit: Now that I think about it, what about the Cylons who did make it to Earth? If they don't age, how did they die out? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 00:33, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

: Perhaps aging was only a non-issue when they had resurrection tech. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::You mean, they did age but then transfered their conciousness to younger bodies? That's possible. What about the option to box their conciousness? They could still survive that way (sure, their bodies might die out without some form of suspended animation given that they are biological, but their conciousness could survive as 1s and 0s that could be downloaded into new bodies 150,000 years later). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Removed questions ==

I've removed the following questions:
* Who were/are the Lords of Kobol?
** Good question, but not one with any connection to this episode.
* What year is the present day?
** I'm not sure what this is asking. We are shown that the Colonial's present is 150 000 years before our own.
* Who is the dying leader? Laura Roslin? Galactica? Starbuck?
** The narrative gives us many explicit statements that it is Roslin, and she fits the role perfectly, making it unnecessary to try and jam someone else into the position. Doing so without clear indications from the show is speculation.
* What’s the deal with Kara Thrace?
** She was sent back by "God" as an angel to guide the people to the new Earth. Covered fairly conclusively, if not explicitly.
* What is the true nature of the Head People?
** They were angels, as was stated many times.
* Who or what is guiding events?
** Something akin to "God", though it doesn't like to be called that. I think this is covered sufficiently in the earlier question about why "God" is guiding events.
* Is Virtual Baltar really the archangel Gabriel? If not, is Virtual Leobon? (Assuming they're not actually the same being, that is.)
** Theory without basis in the show.
--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 23:41, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

== Parallel evolution ==

It is implausible scientifically that Earth humans and Colonials just happened to evolve in parallel without outside influence (possibly from the head beings). Therefore, I wouldn't state it as fact that they're alien to each other -- there is no support for that in the show. The facts are that they can mate and that the characters are surprised about humans existing on Earth, but I wouldn't go as far as drawing conclusions about the origins of Colonials and humans. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 19:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

:It could be that in the Galactica universe humans are the standard of life across the universe, which is why they never encountered other life forms during their travels. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I covered this on this very talkpage [[#The_Angels_Make_Life_In_This_Galaxy_Boringly_Homogenous. | here. ]] Basically, the [[Angel]]s guide evolution subtly by such means as dropping huge asteroids on the dinosaurs so that they can create dodos in their place. Because of these [[Angel]]s life is the same everywhere right down to identical pianofortes playing [[the Music | All Along The Watchtower. ]]

:: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 18:48, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:::Most importantly, don't forget the suits and ties, which were reinvented by accident or through the collective unconscious. Back to the topic, though - all I'm saying is that the fact that Earth humans are primitive in that era does not necessarily imply that the Colonials evolved totally independently on Kobol and are therefore aliens, as the note in the article stated. No need to make such bold conclusions for the sake of "You know what that actualy means?"-type trivia; we know the visible facts, and they should be reported as such, and we know there is a LOT that we don't know about the head beings, which opens up any number of possibilities for future storytelling. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 20:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::::"And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees" The Algae planet could have been terraformed by the 13th Tribe before they reached Earth (maybe they intended to settle there but then learned of the supernova and changed their minds, but not after they had terraformed the planet and built the temple). New Caprica had trees? Wasn't it mostly a desert? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:50, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::::: I shall address the remarks of Graf Iblis, None Of Your Business, and Man of the Atom together:

::::: What Graf Iblis says could make sense:

::::: Let us suppose that the [[Angel]]s scooped up humans from Our Earth, took them to Cobol taught them to talk and ruled over them as the [[Lords of Cobol]] 160 thousand years ago. That makes sense.

::::: About the trees on New Caprica, trees on our Earth come in 3 shapes:

* - Cone-Shaped

* - Mushroom-Shaped

* - Palm-Tree-Shaped

::::: For all 3 shapes one can find both angiosperms and gymnosperms. For the Palm-Tree-shaped we even have some ferns too. Convergent evolution like sharks and ichthyosaurs probably can explain the trees looking alike.

::::: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 23:55, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::: If the same tree species, and foxes, and chickens, and so on, can evolve on different planets without terraforming, humans aren't a stretch. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:10, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::: But the trees need not be the same species on New Caprica.. Indeed, they may have only a superficial resemblance to each other. Despite looking externally similar ichthyosaurs and sharks are very different. For foxes, pidgins, humans, et cetera to be on both Cobol and our Earth, the [[Angel]]s would have to stear biological evolution on both planets or scooped up these organisms on our Earth where we know for a fact they evolved and taken them to Cobol.

::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 00:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::: And the Twelve Colonies, if humans didn't bring them from Kobol (and I doubt they did). -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 03:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::: It was mine understanding that the Colonists brought life from Cobol and terraformed the 12 planets orbiting a few stars in an open star-cluster.

::::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 04:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::: "Let us suppose that the [[Angel]]s scooped up humans from Our Earth, took them to Cobol taught them to talk and ruled over them as the [[Lords of Cobol]] 160 thousand years ago. That makes sense." It goes without saying that BSG left people wanting more. One thing I would like to know more about is who the Lords of Kobol were, what their relationship with the Angels/Messengers was, and who the jealous Lord that Elosha mentioned in "Kobol's Last Gleaming" was meant to be. Was he Iblis? Was he God? Was Iblis meant to be God? According to some text on the first season finale's page, RDM wanted Dirk Benedick to play Iblis and introduce himself to Baltar as God. Could this still happen? Did RDM change his mind and made God a "force of nature", or did Iblis/Jealous Lord EVOLVE into a force of nature? Is it that he (it?) doesn't like to be called God because he prefers to be called "Iblis"? Wasn't Iblis refered to as Lord in the original show? (Lord Iblis sounds right to me). Iblis as the one true God who orchestrated everything that happened to the Colonials and the Cylons... wouldn't that be a twist (just like Starbuck being a woman was a twist) on the original? Iblis goes from being Satan to being God... I HOPE that this is explored more deeply in Caprica... How could it NOT be given that it features a religious school, right? What else will those characters talk about if not Colonial theology and the Lords of Kobol (as well as the jealous Lord of Kobol). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 00:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::: I doubt that Ronald D. Moore will ever directly answer these questions. He will probably just frak up our minds even more.

:::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 00:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::: There's a chance that RDM intended to answer these and other questions on BSG, but when the opportunity came to develop a spin off (Caprica) he could have made the choice to abandon these plots and focus on the survival aspect of the story instead and keep them to be developed later in Caprica. With characters like the teacher/nun who believes in the "one true God", locations like the Athena school (is is Athena? I forget), and the cult of religious believers that Zoe Graystone's boyfriend belongs to, there's considerable evidence to believe that these topics will be explored in the series, either as fully-developed plots or just casual conversation (i.e. dialogue spoken in a classroom, a conversation between this teacher/nun and maybe a younger Elosha in the school's quad)... It would stand to reason that given that Caprica seems to be more deeply rooted in the theology of BSG that it would explore these ideas, which might be why they stopped being an issue in BSG, which was more about finding Earth/a new world than in about discovering the "truth of God". --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 01:12, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::::: I always figured that it is just another crazy cult. On our Earth, people blow themselves up in the name of the one true god all of the time. The one true cylon-god is nothing more than the one true god of the cult of the of true god.

::::::::: Both Joseph Adams and William Adama are atheists. Lee Adama seems indifferent to religion. I wonder whether this is nature or nurture.

:::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 04:25, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Daybreak, Part II/Archive 1

2009-04-28T00:46:51Z

Walabio: Despite looking externally similar ichthyosaurs and sharks are very different.

== Move ==
Why move this? The way I understand this, this is still episode 20, but it will be lengthened to actually be 3 episodes long. So in a away there are 21/22 episodes even, and not 19. However, [http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/06/battlestars-fin.html This] says that the season will be 11 hours and not 12, but that doesn't mean that we need to get rid of episode 19 already. Especially given that the finale will probably air in at least 2 parts. So it makes some sense to have separate episodes guides for two airings. By production numbers this would be one episode, but split apart by airdate numbers. Maybe we should wait for some further clarification. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:It could be split up into 3 parts in reruns. I think it would be easier to start with a single article and then split as necessary after it airs. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::If Sci Fi is gonna pull a Miniseries and air this thing in two parts, we should pull a Miniseries too and have [[Miniseries, Night 1|separate]] [[Miniseries, Night 2|articles]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Which we can do after we know where the break point is. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 09:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

There's no reason to split the article at this time. We won't know how things will be aired until they're actually aired. All we know for now is that the finale's been extended... that's it. Creating two or three sections based on something we have absolutely very little information on is just... ill-advised. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 13:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:The proposal wasn't a split, but a merge with 419 I think (the article exists. It just isn't linked to, because it's an empty skeleton). But the result is the same. The way I understand it, 419+420 will be the finale then, with both episodes running 3 hours together (incl. ads I guess). We'll see. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ah, ok. Sounded like it would be a split, with at least one additional article, seeing as each article would cover an hour. Anyway, we don't have enough information to be certain; it's still really all up in the air, and they have now until doomsday to figure out how to release the thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

==Title==
''Daybreak, Part 2'' (and ''Part 3'') [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/09/battlestar-galactica-cruise-book.html according to producer Mark Verheiden].--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 19:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Can we PLEASE change the title of the page to Part II & Part III -- It is being sold on iTunes, Amazon, etc. and two completely different episodes and this actually screwed me up immensely because I ended up reading spoilers for Part 3 before I started watching it. Yes, this is how it aired, but it is not how it is being archived. -- [[User:Namtastic|Namtastic]] 13:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Analysis==
"Ronald D. Moore appears in a cameo as the man holding a National Geographic magazine in New York City. "

I think there is much more to it. Ronald D. Moore is appearing as himself reading that article because his knowledge of "Eve" influenced the series. In other words, the series is a result of the events depicted in the series. With that scene, Battlestar Galactica becomes part of Battlestar Galactica.

:This is impossibel since as of 2009 mitochondrial Eve's remains haven't been found yet, this scene is set in the future, after the series ended.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:02, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::Checkout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve. First articals apearred in 2003 ;)

It's not the same thing: we've known about mitochondrial Eve since before the series started, but her actual remains have not been found, there were never any bones of her found up to this day.
It's possible that Moore knowing about Eve's existence may have influenced the show, but he has never read an NGC article about the finding of her remains, simply because those remains haven't been found and thus never made their way into an NGC article.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Notes==

I recognised it immediately when watching the episode (and it's already on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daybreak_(Battlestar_Galactica)#Outside_references ), the "Kodiak" spacecraft from Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun can be seen among the fleet during this episode.

==(Un)answered questions)==

The following Ron Moore interview clears up some misunderstandings about the show: http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html

1) Kara Thrace's father was NOT the lost cylon Daniel.

2) The Missiles Racetrack's Raptor (accidentally) fires at the cylon colony were nukes that severely damaged the colony and made it fall from its stable orbit into the singularity (black hole) so the colony has been utterly destroyed.

3) The Earth which is discovered in this episode is not the same planet that was discovered in "Revelations." The Earth of "Revelations" was not the planet we now live on, but our Earth was named after it.

There are still a bunch of unanswered questions:

1) What is the nature of the divine power (although this was probably intentionally left unanswered.)

2) Who were the Lords of Kobol and what happened to that world?

3) How did the colonials get from Kobol to the colonies and if they were technologically advanced, how did they loose all knowledge of Kobol, save for some religious texts?

4) What happened to those who nuked the old Earth 2000 years ago, some of these victors would have survived, but they re never seen or heard from.

5) Why didn't Cavil and his cylons try to re-invent resurrection themselves as the technology wasn't that far ahead of them (it was re-invented by the final five on old-Earth in a civilization that hadn't even invented jump drives.)

6) How could the resurrection hub control all resurrection ships while there was never any mention of FTL-communication on the show and why wasn't the resurrection hub integrated into the colony rather than floating around in deep space, vulnerable and guarded by only 2 baseships.

7) Was the colony really the place where all cylons lived, was their civilization so small (and clearly no match for the colonial military before the holocaust) and are there no baseships left out there that still have cylons aboard who want to exact their revenge on humanity? They may die out like the article suggests, but there's nothing stopping them from taking Earth with them (provided they find it within their lifetime.)

8) What happened to the other rebel cylons? Was it just the 3 baseships that rebelled, and if not, where are the other 2's, 6's and 8's?

9) How did Lee get everyone to agree to give up technology (even medical)?

10) Had it not made more sense to build new cities on Earth and rebuild the advanced colonial civilization, when everyone understood how important equal treatment of cylons and humans is, instead of letting Earth's humans build their own civilization thousands of years later, humans who are likely to make the same old mistakes with artificial intelligence and repeat the cycle?

11) How come no intelligent alien life has ever been encountered by colonials or cylons in their histories, but when it finally happens these aliens are identical to humans, who somehow evolved separately from the Kobol humans? Somehow this amazing coincidence being an "act of God" seems like a rather unsatisfactory answer.

12) Since all the fleet's decisions after the Ellen's reapperarance have been about breaking the cycle, is Lee afraid that by having superior technology on earth the cylons and colonials would "enslave" the native population, creating yet another cycle?

-- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:: He doesn't actually say that about Kara. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:00, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

You're right, I've edited my post. -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

: I'd still like to know the origin of Kara's pristine Viper from her resurrection or how she died going into a gas giant with her corpse resting on a planet light-years away. And what the deal is with the Centurions from "Razor" and the Hybrid they deified. And while I understand his prophesy, I'd like to know why the old Hybrid didn't want Kara to lead a new civilisation to Earth. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Her being sent back with a new viper was supposed to be an act of the divine power. I think the Razor centurions were explained as regular mutineers, they saw the first hybrid as some kind of prophet because of the way it talked and wanted to protect it from being scrapped. Seeing as how Kara was largely responsible for the end of Cylon civilization, except the few centurions that are still left, this explains why '''CYLON''" hybrids call her the harbinger of death (it was never stated she was the harbinger of death for humanity.) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Gully, as for question four the Thirteenth Tribe's Earth got nuked by their Centurions. From the surface, not from space. M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). The Final Five secretly built a ship and rebuilt resurrection (Which the 13th Tribe hadn't needed since first achieving reproduction on Kobol). That was how they escaped. -- [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 04:24, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: Alright, but being centurions the radiation wouldn't really hurt them, they could easily have created their own civilization after the dust settled (a bit like the machines in the "Terminator".) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:47, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Machines can be disabled by radiation, and the impacts themselves would have destroyed the Centurions. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

From the article: “Since the notes of All Along the Watchtower lead to Earth, do they still serve a purpose on Earth?” answer: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen_(film) yes]. -- [[User:LaloMartins|LaloMartins]] 12:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Regarding point six, in [[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]], it was stated that, when the [[Resurrection Hub]] jumps, it transmits its' new location to the [[Hybrid]]s, so FTL communication technology definitely exists. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Adding a question on, the CGI Raptor launched ''16'' missiles, why were only 8 shown after the launch scene?--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 06:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

==== What Precisely Killed [[Margaret Edmondson|Racetrack]] and [[Hamish McCall|Skulls]]? ====

The Marines in the rear of the cabin were killed by explosive decompression and vacuum exposure, but Racetrack and Skulls were in sealed pressure suits. I don't recall seeing suit damage in that quick shot of Margaret's hand falling on the missile-launch button. Did the one penetrating rock cause invisible crushing injuries to both of them? It didn't look big enough to hit both of them square on. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:Skulls whas hit in his face or chest by the rock and there was a small hole in Racetrack's helmet when her hand fell on the button.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

==== [[Delphi]] ====

In the episode "[[Downloaded]]" the cylons were rebuilding the Caprican city of [[Delphi]] and living in it. Was this effort completely abandoned when the Cylons decided to occupy [[New Caprica]]? Or has the effort to recover [[Caprica_(RDM)|Caprica]] continued all this time and is it still occupied? Are there still a substantial number of human-Cylons living on Caprica? Will it become like first Earth before their holocaust, an entirely Cylon-populated society? Are any humans stragglers left alive on either Caprica or New Caprica? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 09:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:They likely did leave the colonies after [[Downloaded]], there may still be some baseships out there, but the cylons on them are aging and cannot procreate. Even if they found Earth within their lifetimes a handful of basestars probably don't have enough nukes to obliterate the Earth's surface, that is assuming they'll actually know humans are living on Earth: it's pretty hard to find a stone age culture or neolithic society from space, even when you're actively looking for them (sure the colonials found one tribe, but in order to kill all humans with a limited number of nukes you'd have to know the positions of every tribe on Earth.)
There may be human survivors left on the colonies but it's unlikely: sure, they may have survived the nukes and the radiation, but the cylons actively hunted them down, probably to populations too small to repopulate the planets.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== The Angels Make Life In This Galaxy Boringly Homogenous. ==

I slept on this, but my original impression after watching Daybreak Park # 2 is that these Angels make things boring:

They create pidgins, dogs, cats, foxes, people, oranges, tuna, et cetera. I would not be surprised if the Angels dropped a big rock on the dinosaurs just so they can have a clean slate for creating rats.

Once they create people, they make the people invent pianos, worship Zeus, Yahweh, Thor, et cetera. They make the people play “All Along The Watchtower”. They see to it that the people create Cylons.

We are not descended from apes, but from # 8s — a little wordplay because 8 and ape sound similar. the mitochondrial DNA of the # 8s is so similar to that of Homo '' neanderthalensis '' that we apparently have a common ancestor, Homo '' heidelbergensis '' half a million years ago even though that is impossible.

If we explore the Galaxy, will only find humans and cylons. ¿What is the point? ¿Why bother exploring?

Arthur C. Clarke in '' 2001 '' had a similar idea of lonely aliens helping intelligent life evolve, but the beings did not care about the final form. In other words, diversity is the rule in '' 2001. ''

We still do not know the nature of these Angels other than that Starbuck seems to be one of them

I do not know how this fits into the article, but it fits into the article somehow. I figure that I should but this on the talkpages for '' Virtual Beings '' and '' Daybreak # 2. ''

----
From Act 10 section of article: "(This is in the year 1987 AD.)" How can it be 1987 when the flat panel TV clearly showed MSNBC logo at the bottom? MSNBC was created in 1996.--[[User:Steven512|Steven512]] 14:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, the robots you see in this scene were also developed after 1987 and as far as I know the remains of mitochondrial Eve have never been found.
In 1987 it was discovered that there had been a mitochondrial Eve, this was based on DNA-research among modern humans, her actual remains have not been found to this day so the scene takes place in the near future (it could even be tomorrow), not in 1987!
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:58, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

== Hera's Mate = Boxey? ==

From the notes section

''On the second Earth Hera's mate that produced children was most likely human. Saul Tigh and the Leobens would be too old for her. While it was fairly common in ancient times for the men to be far older than their brides (particularly with royalty), for example with the female being as young as 12 and and the male being say 60 to take an extreme, Colonial mores, which are much like our own in real life, would forbid the Leobens from sexual congress with Hera when she reach the accepted reproductive age. On the other hand there were many human children about her age and slightly older in the Fleet. She could had also had children with a human child unborn at the time of the landing on Second Earth perhaps within five years to ten years of her age. It is possible that other hybrid children could had been born after the landing given that the Twos, Sixes, and Eights joined the humans. And it is possible that pure Cylon children could had been born to the age compatible Sixes, Eights, and Leobens but as noted in the series it is difficult if not impossible for a pure Cylon child to come to term making any pool of pure Cylon children that were successfully born very small. Cylon-Human mating with a human male with a Six or a Sharon is very possible with the example of Hera herself an significantly more likely than with a Cylon-Cylon birth, but it is harder than with human-human pairings making any pool of those pairing while much more likely and larger than Cylon-Cylon offspring, still quite small number compared to pure human offspring. Therefore Hera's offspring is most likely with a human. A more remote possibility is with another Cylon-human hybrid. Her producing children with a pure Cylon offspring is the least likely since pure Cylons are the least likely to exist.''

Boxey could be Hera's mate. It would make sense.

Boxey as Y-chromosomal Adam? Or would that be "Adama"? heh--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: The chromosomal Adam live tens of thousands of years after the Mitochondrial Eve.

: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 17:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
::Walabio is right and why would it be more likely for Hera to end up with Boxey instead of with one of the other hundreds of children from the fleet?
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 18:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::The ''Y-chromosomal Adam'' reference was to make the pun based on Boxey being Apollo's adopted son in TOS :). As for why it would make sense, it be for no other reason that it would give the RDM version of the character some (belated) importance, which he lacked through the run of the show. Why have her end up with some random kid from the fleet than have her end up with a character who had some level of development? Plus, look at it this way, the original intent according to some references on this site say that the plan was to make Boxey, Tyrol, and Sharon (Boomer) a makeshift family. Having him end up with Hera accomplishes part of that intent as he'd be related to one version of Sharon (Athena)--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 18:31, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It is a moot point. He had NO relevant to BSG any more since they dropped him as a character. If they didn't drop him as a character I think the perfect end would had been making him that guy that was killed in the mutiny, you know the one that acted as a runner between CIC and some damaged area of the ship to get a damage report for Adama at the near the beginning of the mutiny? He was then later killed by Gaeta's trigger happy Marines when he pushed Adama to the deck, saving his life. That would had been a good way for Boxey to go. He would had been the right age (17) and would had gave his character an ultimate purpose, to save Adama when the time came.
::: Of course it is possible for Boxey and Hera to had gotten together. He would had been 14 years old when Hera was born but with Hera say 20 years old Boxey would had been 34, a reasonable age difference allowable in both our and Colonial Society. And further it would had been another of the shows many ironies and "what goes around, comes around" themes: Boxey, who was taken in by Boomer, an Eight as a quasi foster son, later marries the daughter of Athena, an Eight, who was stolen and then given back by Boomer who was then killed Athena. Imagine all the physiological turmoil that could case Boxey. This show thrived on that sort of thing. LOL [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 23:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

== Number Three ==

Couldn't they have sent a Raptor or an FTL-capable ship to find Number Three and bring her to the New Earth with them? It would have been the humane thing to do. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: She was left on a dead-to-humans world, where the only plant life we saw were grasses or other non-edibles, with a background radiation count above the safe level beyond short exposure: even the water was contaminated. She probably died within a few weeks of being left behind. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 12:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:: Good point. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It was established by Athena in [[The Passage]] that Cylons are far more resistant to radiation than humans are. In fact they bombed [[Caprica]] and the other Colonies with high yield nuclear weapons '''outside''' the cities so they could kill the humans but keep the buildings and infrastructure intact. We saw them settling in [[Caprica City]] in "[[Downloaded]]" even reopening the coffee shops, so radiation is of no problem to them (except for the rare special kind of Nebula radiation at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]) So it is possible for [[D'Anna Biers]] to survive the radiation of Earth One and even drink the rain water. Food on the other hand would be a problem and I saw no evidence of surviving animal life, and this all assumes that she wanted to survive, which I don't think she would due to staying on the radioactive rock in the first place. Still, it would had been a nice thing to try to find her. Maybe a miracle would had happened LOL. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:05, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

== "No Further Significant Revelations..."==

I think this statement in the advisory tag is premature. There's still "The Plan", as well as, in theory, the Caprica series, both of which might provide further revelations with regards to Daybreak and the series itself. Certainly The Plan, anyway. Not to mention the presumed deleted scenes that will be on the DVD and there's a rumor Daybreak will be extended for the DVD as well. There's still a chance for some issues to be resolved. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 13:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:That's interesting. I don't expect The Plan to reveal much of anything about what Kara became or who the Virtual beings were, but Caprica might explore it given the establishment that they appear at times when the cycle of time (machine on human violence) begins. Caprica might provide the answers to the lingering questions if for nothing more than to give fans of BSG a reason to watch. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::Let's hope so, though I don't expect they will reveal much more about the divine powers or the angels, ever. It would take away the mystery and the sense that there is something bigger than us (humans and cylons), now we are left wondering if the divine power is a God, or just a very advanced race (maybe the perpetrators (or their descendents) of the first holocaust during the first cycle are feeling guilty) and I think that's how Ron Moore intended it to be. However, ''Caprica'' may reveal more about colonial history: what happened to Kobol, how did humans move from Kobol to the colonies, why was that history almost completely forgotten (was there a colonial dark age) and who or what were the Lords of Kobol? --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:::I'm sure that many people would agree, or at least theorize, that the virtual beings are Moore's version of the beings of light from the Ship of Lights, especially considering what happened to Kara, which I've seen (here or elsewhere, I forget) compared to what happened to the Starbuck from the original series on the last episode of Galactica 80. I think that the reason why Moore must have decided to leave things vague is that he didn't want to "cheapen it" by introducing something like the Ship of Lights into his show, which was more realistic than the original version. Now that I think about it, when Baltar tells Six that "it" doesn't like to be called God, it could be that "it" is the Ship of Lights or whatever version of it that exist in this version of the story. It would be cool if there was more exploration of this in Caprica, as well as further exploration of the "jealous God" from Kobol (which I'm sure we'll hear more of due to this headmistress in Caprica who doesn't believe in the Lords of Kobol) and all the other lingering questions from the show. In fact, given that religion is an important aspect of Caprica as it was in BSG (RDM) I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of this down the line. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 17:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::::Hi, guys. Here's my two cents, since I'm the Senior Chief that added the special notice. "No further significant revelations" means "the story is generally over." BSG isn't Star Trek, guys. RDM has stated that there are some elements of the story that he wouldn't resolve, but that he would resolve the important stuff. Is that etched in stone somewhere? No. I'm sure ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' may open a few new questions. But until that series debuts, what we have is what we have. Battlestar Wiki allows some speculation because we're talking about a work of fiction. But to speculate further when no further answers are likely and people are making what's otherwise original research--that's [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]], and it's not allowed on Battlestar Wiki. For the purposes of this episode summary because its so long (and must be), we have to keep focus and not overload the article. Episode summaries are the only articles where questions can be asked (provided they don't go out of control) but many questions will not be answered. As soon as the noise dies down we can move some pressing questions to [[BW:OC|our special Q&A page answered by BSG co-producer Bradley Thompson]]. In my opinion, the nature of the Virtual Beings and Kara have been answered as far as RDM wanted to do. They are beings of divine source--and folks, religion is one thing that RDM loved to keep close to his chest to add to the BSG mystique. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::: I'm not saying that The Plan is going to answer all the unanswered questions, etc. However The Plan has been acknowledged as the coda for this series, and just as important to it as Razor was. However the special notice as I saw it wasn't just in reference to Daybreak, but to the Wiki in general, and that's where I think it's premature. In terms of Daybreak itself, I agree that any additional revelations in The Plan will likely be minor and there are unlikely to be any in Caprica at all relating to that particular episode. But I think questions that come to mind are still worth asking with regards to characters that could be addressed in The Plan. And unless someone has already seen The Plan, or RDM has explicitly stated otherwise, we can't really predict which characters may or may not be addressed. Something that might be interesting once The Plan airs and is analysed is to go through the episode articles and compile the outstanding questions that the series has left unanswered. I think there will be fewer than some think, with the remainder being just enough to put this series into the same league as "The Prisoner" in that people will still be arguing over "what does it mean" 40 years from now. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== How did the fleet reach Earth 2 / New Earth? ==
As far as I understood it before Galactica departed for the Colony they agreed to a rendezvous location with the fleet. But when jumping away from the colony Starbuck punched in the numbers of the song and Galactica jumped for its last time. But when it reappeared over New Earth the fleet also jumped right in. How did they get the coordinates (a raptor jumping to the rendezvous location?)? But how did they get them so fast? [[User:DJ Doena|DJ Doena]] 14:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:Galactica still had a few raptors left (we saw 7 of them landed on Earth) and 12 hours passed between the shot of Galactica jumping near the Moon and the rest of the fleet showing up, nothing fishy going on there. --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:30, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::The key here was time pressure. Someone had the coordinates, but with the chaos of getting sucked into a black hole, no one could give them to Kara in time before ''Galactica's'' final jump. When all was stable, someone remembered/recalled the Fleet's coordinates, sent a Raptor, and all was good. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:You missed the letters onscreen spelling "Twelve Hours Later". -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Consolidation change ==

Hey everyone! I just wanted to take a moment to explain the format and consolidation change for Act I. This change is a test for updating the event summary because:

*Each detail does not require a bullet.
*Having bullets for every event make it look redundant.

*However, having bullets between major events makes the summary flow a little better. This was the approach I used when summarizing [[Daybreak, Part I]]. It gives each scene a sense of distinction, like this example.

Are there any other opinions regarding this proposed change? If it's OK, I can start work on the other acts. -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 20:52, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:Given the massive data, it's okay to condense a few points. But keep it to maybe three or four lines condensed. Any larger and it's hard to follow. Try to keep it looking like the other episode guides as much as possible for consistency. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for the working guideline. As of this writing, Act I & II are done, and starting on the rest. Hope you guys like it! -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 07:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

==The robot at the end==
I corrected an addition in Story Notes that suggested the female robot at the very end is the one that was unveiled only a few days before the broadcast. That would have been very cool, but it's actually the "Actroid" which was unveiled 4 years ago. Interestingly I found Actroid, a 4-year-old technology, to be more lifelike than the one unveiled last week... [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

==The model on the cover of "Sports Limited"==
Here's a challenge for those who watched this on HD sets... I've heard it suggested that the model on the cover of "Sports Limited" (the SI-like magazine seen on the newsstand) might actually be Tricia Helfer. I can't tell at all on the computer-screen I'm using, but it might be a neat bit of trivia (not to mention it would open a line of speculation as to whether the Sixes have survived to the present day) if it's true. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 16:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

== Questions Section ==

I can never be more blunt than I tried to be before on these last two guides. The questions sections follow strict rules [[Battlestar_Wiki:Standards_and_Conventions/Episode_Guides#Questions_Section]] is the policy on this section. I am going to again clear out the questions section with the bad stuff. Users who do not follow our polices on the [[BW:SAC]] will be warned and if after being warned by doing it again, will be banned. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== Lie-dector test "question" ==

In the Questions section, somebody asked:'' "During the lie detector test in the flashback scene of William Adama's attempt to secure a civilian job, why did the interrogator ask him if he was a Cylon?"''

This was a control question in order to get a baseline from which to compare the real questions for deception. Such as if a polygraph-operator were to ask "Are you a dinosaur?" This fact was made immediately clear in the dialogue. This was in no way left unclear. It's not a mystery. It's not even a debate.

I've deleted it.

== What year is it "question" ==

Another rediculous addition to the Questions section: ''"What year is it on Earth during the final scene?"''

That too was answered by the title: "150,000 Years Later". Go back 150,000 years from 2009 AD, and you have the answer: 148000 B.C.E.

I've deleted the question.

== Regarding my edits to Questions Section ==

I've removed these three questions:

* Why so many zeros in the Model 0005?
* Does either Battlestar Galactica TV series exist in some form on the new Earth?
* Who or what is God exactly?

The first two are completely and utterly ridiculous and do not have any merit as questions. They will never be answered, and it's simply beneath the scope of what questions should be in that section in the first place.

The third question has been pretty much answered in the series by Baltar, who is essentially the mouthpiece of the writers coda on that subject. In the universe of BSG, God is a force of nature who doesn't like the name "God." -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:57, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

== Galactica breaking her back ==

Just noticed, Galactica made her final jump with her flight pods out, maybe thats what caused the damage? I mean the extra forces exerted on the ship because of the higher amount of ship to effect. It makes sense that Galactica jumping without her pods retracted would place extraordinary amount of stress on the ship. Every other time even when dropping through the atmosphere at New Caprica the Galactica always had her pods retracted fro a jump.
--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 08:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

:That could very well have been a contributing factor, but there are many other factors in play, too, namely
:*her age,
:*compromises made during construction,
:*accumulated stresses and fractures from past battle damage and the sheer number of jumps,
:*lack of proper dock repair and maintenance,
:*her last sustained pounding at close-range, and ramming into the Colony.
:And consider that Adama and Tigh were told that she only had a few more jumps in her before she suffers structural damage. The old girl was already falling apart.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 13:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I remember that one of the specialists told Adama that Galactica had 5 jumps left max, but nevermind it I just took notice of it and wanted to see what everyone else thought of it. EDIT: Also noticed that Glactica's flight pods went up and down of their own accord after the jump, maybe thats why they retract the pods? I think the Mercuries could non-retract jump because of the way their support struts are placed. By the looks of it the movement of the pods was absolutely massive and that kind of stress would most certainly break Galactica's back no matter what sort of structural damage she had before. --[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 07:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

==Cylon Longevity==

According to [[No Exit]], Ellen and the others created Cavil in the image of her father, so it stands to reason that, 40 years prior to the fall of the colonies, he was already a man in his 70'(s?) and in fact had not aged in those four decades. It can be assumed that the same holds true for the other six humanoid cylons, all of which were considerably younger than him.

The point here is, if humaoid Cylons don't age then the surviving Cylons who didn't make it to Earth wouldn't have died out as it has been speculated, be it from old age or lack of mates to reproduce with. Their longevity could surpass human longevity and they could be alive at the end of the series.

Furthermore there's the issue of boxing. They could have boxed themselves as a form of suspended animation to ensure their survival and programmed Guardian Centurions to watch over them.

All in all, there are many number of ways in which the humanoid Cylons that didn't make it to Earth could have survived. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit: Now that I think about it, what about the Cylons who did make it to Earth? If they don't age, how did they die out? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 00:33, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

: Perhaps aging was only a non-issue when they had resurrection tech. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::You mean, they did age but then transfered their conciousness to younger bodies? That's possible. What about the option to box their conciousness? They could still survive that way (sure, their bodies might die out without some form of suspended animation given that they are biological, but their conciousness could survive as 1s and 0s that could be downloaded into new bodies 150,000 years later). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Removed questions ==

I've removed the following questions:
* Who were/are the Lords of Kobol?
** Good question, but not one with any connection to this episode.
* What year is the present day?
** I'm not sure what this is asking. We are shown that the Colonial's present is 150 000 years before our own.
* Who is the dying leader? Laura Roslin? Galactica? Starbuck?
** The narrative gives us many explicit statements that it is Roslin, and she fits the role perfectly, making it unnecessary to try and jam someone else into the position. Doing so without clear indications from the show is speculation.
* What’s the deal with Kara Thrace?
** She was sent back by "God" as an angel to guide the people to the new Earth. Covered fairly conclusively, if not explicitly.
* What is the true nature of the Head People?
** They were angels, as was stated many times.
* Who or what is guiding events?
** Something akin to "God", though it doesn't like to be called that. I think this is covered sufficiently in the earlier question about why "God" is guiding events.
* Is Virtual Baltar really the archangel Gabriel? If not, is Virtual Leobon? (Assuming they're not actually the same being, that is.)
** Theory without basis in the show.
--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 23:41, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

== Parallel evolution ==

It is implausible scientifically that Earth humans and Colonials just happened to evolve in parallel without outside influence (possibly from the head beings). Therefore, I wouldn't state it as fact that they're alien to each other -- there is no support for that in the show. The facts are that they can mate and that the characters are surprised about humans existing on Earth, but I wouldn't go as far as drawing conclusions about the origins of Colonials and humans. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 19:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

:It could be that in the Galactica universe humans are the standard of life across the universe, which is why they never encountered other life forms during their travels. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I covered this on this very talkpage [[#The_Angels_Make_Life_In_This_Galaxy_Boringly_Homogenous. | here. ]] Basically, the [[Angel]]s guide evolution subtly by such means as dropping huge asteroids on the dinosaurs so that they can create dodos in their place. Because of these [[Angel]]s life is the same everywhere right down to identical pianofortes playing [[the Music | All Along The Watchtower. ]]

:: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 18:48, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:::Most importantly, don't forget the suits and ties, which were reinvented by accident or through the collective unconscious. Back to the topic, though - all I'm saying is that the fact that Earth humans are primitive in that era does not necessarily imply that the Colonials evolved totally independently on Kobol and are therefore aliens, as the note in the article stated. No need to make such bold conclusions for the sake of "You know what that actualy means?"-type trivia; we know the visible facts, and they should be reported as such, and we know there is a LOT that we don't know about the head beings, which opens up any number of possibilities for future storytelling. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 20:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::::"And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees" The Algae planet could have been terraformed by the 13th Tribe before they reached Earth (maybe they intended to settle there but then learned of the supernova and changed their minds, but not after they had terraformed the planet and built the temple). New Caprica had trees? Wasn't it mostly a desert? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:50, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::::: I shall address the remarks of Graf Iblis, None Of Your Business, and Man of the Atom together:

::::: What Graf Iblis says could make sense:

::::: Let us suppose that the [[Angel]]s scooped up humans from Our Earth, took them to Cobol taught them to talk and ruled over them as the [[Lords of Cobol]] 160 thousand years ago. That makes sense.

::::: About the trees on New Caprica, trees on our Earth come in 3 shapes:

* - Cone-Shaped

* - Mushroom-Shaped

* - Palm-Tree-Shaped

::::: For all 3 shapes one can find both angiosperms and gymnosperms. For the Palm-Tree-shaped we even have some ferns too. Convergent evolution like sharks and ichthyosaurs probably can explain the trees looking alike.

::::: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 23:55, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::: If the same tree species, and foxes, and chickens, and so on, can evolve on different planets without terraforming, humans aren't a stretch. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:10, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::: But the trees need not be the same species on New Caprica.. Indeed, they may have only a superficial resemblance to each other. Despite looking externally similar ichthyosaurs and sharks are very different. For foxes, pidgins, humans, et cetera to be on both Cobol and our Earth, the [[Angel]]s would have to stear biological evolution on both planets or scooped up these organisms on our Earth where we know for a fact they evolves and taken them to Cobol.

::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 00:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

::::::: "Let us suppose that the [[Angel]]s scooped up humans from Our Earth, took them to Cobol taught them to talk and ruled over them as the [[Lords of Cobol]] 160 thousand years ago. That makes sense." It goes without saying that BSG left people wanting more. One thing I would like to know more about is who the Lords of Kobol were, what their relationship with the Angels/Messengers was, and who the jealous Lord that Elosha mentioned in "Kobol's Last Gleaming" was meant to be. Was he Iblis? Was he God? Was Iblis meant to be God? According to some text on the first season finale's page, RDM wanted Dirk Benedick to play Iblis and introduce himself to Baltar as God. Could this still happen? Did RDM change his mind and made God a "force of nature", or did Iblis/Jealous Lord EVOLVE into a force of nature? Is it that he (it?) doesn't like to be called God because he prefers to be called "Iblis"? Wasn't Iblis refered to as Lord in the original show? (Lord Iblis sounds right to me). Iblis as the one true God who orchestrated everything that happened to the Colonials and the Cylons... wouldn't that be a twist (just like Starbuck being a woman was a twist) on the original? Iblis goes from being Satan to being God... I HOPE that this is explored more deeply in Caprica... How could it NOT be given that it features a religious school, right? What else will those characters talk about if not Colonial theology and the Lords of Kobol (as well as the jealous Lord of Kobol). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 00:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

:::::::: I doubt that Ronald D. Moore will ever directly answer these questions. He will probably just frak up our minds even more.

:::::::: [[User:Walabio|— “⸘Ŭalabio‽”]] 00:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

The Rebirth of Cy, Part 1

2009-04-27T01:53:52Z

Walabio: and >-> an

{{separate continuity|universe=TOS|cont=Maximum Press}}
{{Comic Data|
image =
| title= The Rebirth of Cy, Part #1
| series=Maximum Press
| issueno= 10
| episode=
| writer= Robert Napton Scott Devine
| penciller= Hector Gomez
| inker=
| colorist=Extreme Colors
| letterer=Steve Dutro
| editor=Matt Hawkins Jenny Allevato
| cover=
| published=December 1996
| collects=
| collected=
| reprints=
| reprinted=
| isbn=
| prev= ''[[First Date]]''
| next= None
}}

==Plot ==

During the pursuit of two [[Viper (TOS)|Vipers]], a [[Centurion (TOS)|Centurion]] finds itself afflicted with guilt after experiencing "malfunctions" caused by an [[ion storm]] it encounters.

== Summary ==

* In [[Timeline (TOS alternate)#7342|7342]], [[Starbuck (TOS alternate)|Starbuck]] and [[Apollo (TOS alternate)|Apollo]] are under attack by a group of [[Cylons (TOS alternate)|Cylon]] [[Raider (TOS)|Raiders]]. During their pursuit, the Raiders launched by [[Base Ship 127]] are overcome by an [[ion storm]] which disables the Raiders, thus allowing the [[Viper (TOS)|Vipers]] to escape.
* [[Cylon 8765]] reports his position to his baseship, and is brought in by a tractor beam. He reports to his leader, an [[IL-series Cylon]], who orders him to interrogate the human pilot they had captured. He is told to extract the information of the [[The Fleet (TOS)|Fleet]] by any means necessary.
* Cylon 8765 determines that it was afraid, which runs contrary to Cylon programming. It reports to the main computer, where it learns about the [[Thousand-Yahren War]]; 8765 damages the computer in a fit of rage, declaring how wrong it is to destroy an entire race.
* 8765's commander encounters him in the hallway, inquiring as to why the Cylon failed to interrogate the human. 8765 notes that he had a malfunction that needed to be corrected, which is a lie. The IL-series Cylon accompanies 8765 down to the holding cell, where 8765 hopes to be able to talk to the human in order to understand his moral dilemma; it is revealed that the human is [[Starbuck (TOS alternate)|Starbuck]], which ending this tale.

== Notes ==

* While eschewing events of ''[[Galactica 1980]]'', this comic brings back the character of [[Cyrus (Cylon)|Cyrus]] from "[[The Return of Starbuck]]", who becomes sympathetic to the humans after questioning his own beliefs. However, there is no continuation to this story, since [[Maximum Press]] abandoned writing any further Original Series comics.
* The story was printed in ''Asylum #10'', an issue of [[Maximum Press]]'s anthology series featuring Terry Moore's ''Lady Supreme''.
* This tale does not have a conclusion, since Maximum Press dropped the ''Battlestar Galactica'' property in favor of working on its own properties.

== Analysis ==

* Cy's "malfunction" is started by the use of a spatial anomaly, in this case an [[ion storm]]. Ion storms have been in other science fiction stories, such as ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: The Original Series|Star Trek]]'', to explain crossover between universes (i.e. the "normal universe" and the "mirror universe"). Unlike "[[The Return of Starbuck]]", Cy is convinced to become friends with Starbuck out of necessity, and from that necessity both learn about their opposite's race.
* While consulting the main computer, Cy is told that the Cylons attacked the [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS alternate)|Colonies]] in 7221. However, according to Maximum Press's [[Timeline (TOS alternate)|own timeline]], the war began in [[Timeline (TOS alternate)#6342|6342]], which possibly means one of two things:
*# The Cylons have a different time keeping system than the Colonials. (Therefore, 7221 is the same [[yahren]] as 6342, which means the events of the comic take place in 8221, otherwise known as the Colonial Yahren 7342.)
*# This is an error.

== Questions ==

* How will Cy deal with his malfunctions?
* How does Starbuck escape?
* When does this episode take place in the series' chronology?

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Comics]]
[[Category:Maximum Press comics]]
[[Category:TOS]]

Talk:Daybreak, Part II/Archive 1

2009-04-26T23:58:04Z

Walabio: The Angels might be the Lords of Cobol and moved the humans from our Earth to Cobol.

== Move ==
Why move this? The way I understand this, this is still episode 20, but it will be lengthened to actually be 3 episodes long. So in a away there are 21/22 episodes even, and not 19. However, [http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/06/battlestars-fin.html This] says that the season will be 11 hours and not 12, but that doesn't mean that we need to get rid of episode 19 already. Especially given that the finale will probably air in at least 2 parts. So it makes some sense to have separate episodes guides for two airings. By production numbers this would be one episode, but split apart by airdate numbers. Maybe we should wait for some further clarification. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:It could be split up into 3 parts in reruns. I think it would be easier to start with a single article and then split as necessary after it airs. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::If Sci Fi is gonna pull a Miniseries and air this thing in two parts, we should pull a Miniseries too and have [[Miniseries, Night 1|separate]] [[Miniseries, Night 2|articles]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Which we can do after we know where the break point is. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 09:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

There's no reason to split the article at this time. We won't know how things will be aired until they're actually aired. All we know for now is that the finale's been extended... that's it. Creating two or three sections based on something we have absolutely very little information on is just... ill-advised. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 13:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:The proposal wasn't a split, but a merge with 419 I think (the article exists. It just isn't linked to, because it's an empty skeleton). But the result is the same. The way I understand it, 419+420 will be the finale then, with both episodes running 3 hours together (incl. ads I guess). We'll see. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ah, ok. Sounded like it would be a split, with at least one additional article, seeing as each article would cover an hour. Anyway, we don't have enough information to be certain; it's still really all up in the air, and they have now until doomsday to figure out how to release the thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

==Title==
''Daybreak, Part 2'' (and ''Part 3'') [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/09/battlestar-galactica-cruise-book.html according to producer Mark Verheiden].--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 19:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Can we PLEASE change the title of the page to Part II & Part III -- It is being sold on iTunes, Amazon, etc. and two completely different episodes and this actually screwed me up immensely because I ended up reading spoilers for Part 3 before I started watching it. Yes, this is how it aired, but it is not how it is being archived. -- [[User:Namtastic|Namtastic]] 13:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Analysis==
"Ronald D. Moore appears in a cameo as the man holding a National Geographic magazine in New York City. "

I think there is much more to it. Ronald D. Moore is appearing as himself reading that article because his knowledge of "Eve" influenced the series. In other words, the series is a result of the events depicted in the series. With that scene, Battlestar Galactica becomes part of Battlestar Galactica.

:This is impossibel since as of 2009 mitochondrial Eve's remains haven't been found yet, this scene is set in the future, after the series ended.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:02, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::Checkout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve. First articals apearred in 2003 ;)

It's not the same thing: we've known about mitochondrial Eve since before the series started, but her actual remains have not been found, there were never any bones of her found up to this day.
It's possible that Moore knowing about Eve's existence may have influenced the show, but he has never read an NGC article about the finding of her remains, simply because those remains haven't been found and thus never made their way into an NGC article.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Notes==

I recognised it immediately when watching the episode (and it's already on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daybreak_(Battlestar_Galactica)#Outside_references ), the "Kodiak" spacecraft from Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun can be seen among the fleet during this episode.

==(Un)answered questions)==

The following Ron Moore interview clears up some misunderstandings about the show: http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html

1) Kara Thrace's father was NOT the lost cylon Daniel.

2) The Missiles Racetrack's Raptor (accidentally) fires at the cylon colony were nukes that severely damaged the colony and made it fall from its stable orbit into the singularity (black hole) so the colony has been utterly destroyed.

3) The Earth which is discovered in this episode is not the same planet that was discovered in "Revelations." The Earth of "Revelations" was not the planet we now live on, but our Earth was named after it.

There are still a bunch of unanswered questions:

1) What is the nature of the divine power (although this was probably intentionally left unanswered.)

2) Who were the Lords of Kobol and what happened to that world?

3) How did the colonials get from Kobol to the colonies and if they were technologically advanced, how did they loose all knowledge of Kobol, save for some religious texts?

4) What happened to those who nuked the old Earth 2000 years ago, some of these victors would have survived, but they re never seen or heard from.

5) Why didn't Cavil and his cylons try to re-invent resurrection themselves as the technology wasn't that far ahead of them (it was re-invented by the final five on old-Earth in a civilization that hadn't even invented jump drives.)

6) How could the resurrection hub control all resurrection ships while there was never any mention of FTL-communication on the show and why wasn't the resurrection hub integrated into the colony rather than floating around in deep space, vulnerable and guarded by only 2 baseships.

7) Was the colony really the place where all cylons lived, was their civilization so small (and clearly no match for the colonial military before the holocaust) and are there no baseships left out there that still have cylons aboard who want to exact their revenge on humanity? They may die out like the article suggests, but there's nothing stopping them from taking Earth with them (provided they find it within their lifetime.)

8) What happened to the other rebel cylons? Was it just the 3 baseships that rebelled, and if not, where are the other 2's, 6's and 8's?

9) How did Lee get everyone to agree to give up technology (even medical)?

10) Had it not made more sense to build new cities on Earth and rebuild the advanced colonial civilization, when everyone understood how important equal treatment of cylons and humans is, instead of letting Earth's humans build their own civilization thousands of years later, humans who are likely to make the same old mistakes with artificial intelligence and repeat the cycle?

11) How come no intelligent alien life has ever been encountered by colonials or cylons in their histories, but when it finally happens these aliens are identical to humans, who somehow evolved separately from the Kobol humans? Somehow this amazing coincidence being an "act of God" seems like a rather unsatisfactory answer.

12) Since all the fleet's decisions after the Ellen's reapperarance have been about breaking the cycle, is Lee afraid that by having superior technology on earth the cylons and colonials would "enslave" the native population, creating yet another cycle?

-- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:: He doesn't actually say that about Kara. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:00, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

You're right, I've edited my post. -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

: I'd still like to know the origin of Kara's pristine Viper from her resurrection or how she died going into a gas giant with her corpse resting on a planet light-years away. And what the deal is with the Centurions from "Razor" and the Hybrid they deified. And while I understand his prophesy, I'd like to know why the old Hybrid didn't want Kara to lead a new civilisation to Earth. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Her being sent back with a new viper was supposed to be an act of the divine power. I think the Razor centurions were explained as regular mutineers, they saw the first hybrid as some kind of prophet because of the way it talked and wanted to protect it from being scrapped. Seeing as how Kara was largely responsible for the end of Cylon civilization, except the few centurions that are still left, this explains why '''CYLON''" hybrids call her the harbinger of death (it was never stated she was the harbinger of death for humanity.) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Gully, as for question four the Thirteenth Tribe's Earth got nuked by their Centurions. From the surface, not from space. M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). The Final Five secretly built a ship and rebuilt resurrection (Which the 13th Tribe hadn't needed since first achieving reproduction on Kobol). That was how they escaped. -- [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 04:24, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: Alright, but being centurions the radiation wouldn't really hurt them, they could easily have created their own civilization after the dust settled (a bit like the machines in the "Terminator".) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:47, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Machines can be disabled by radiation, and the impacts themselves would have destroyed the Centurions. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

From the article: “Since the notes of All Along the Watchtower lead to Earth, do they still serve a purpose on Earth?” answer: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen_(film) yes]. -- [[User:LaloMartins|LaloMartins]] 12:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Regarding point six, in [[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]], it was stated that, when the [[Resurrection Hub]] jumps, it transmits its' new location to the [[Hybrid]]s, so FTL communication technology definitely exists. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Adding a question on, the CGI Raptor launched ''16'' missiles, why were only 8 shown after the launch scene?--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 06:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

==== What Precisely Killed [[Margaret Edmondson|Racetrack]] and [[Hamish McCall|Skulls]]? ====

The Marines in the rear of the cabin were killed by explosive decompression and vacuum exposure, but Racetrack and Skulls were in sealed pressure suits. I don't recall seeing suit damage in that quick shot of Margaret's hand falling on the missile-launch button. Did the one penetrating rock cause invisible crushing injuries to both of them? It didn't look big enough to hit both of them square on. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:Skulls whas hit in his face or chest by the rock and there was a small hole in Racetrack's helmet when her hand fell on the button.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

==== [[Delphi]] ====

In the episode "[[Downloaded]]" the cylons were rebuilding the Caprican city of [[Delphi]] and living in it. Was this effort completely abandoned when the Cylons decided to occupy [[New Caprica]]? Or has the effort to recover [[Caprica_(RDM)|Caprica]] continued all this time and is it still occupied? Are there still a substantial number of human-Cylons living on Caprica? Will it become like first Earth before their holocaust, an entirely Cylon-populated society? Are any humans stragglers left alive on either Caprica or New Caprica? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 09:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:They likely did leave the colonies after [[Downloaded]], there may still be some baseships out there, but the cylons on them are aging and cannot procreate. Even if they found Earth within their lifetimes a handful of basestars probably don't have enough nukes to obliterate the Earth's surface, that is assuming they'll actually know humans are living on Earth: it's pretty hard to find a stone age culture or neolithic society from space, even when you're actively looking for them (sure the colonials found one tribe, but in order to kill all humans with a limited number of nukes you'd have to know the positions of every tribe on Earth.)
There may be human survivors left on the colonies but it's unlikely: sure, they may have survived the nukes and the radiation, but the cylons actively hunted them down, probably to populations too small to repopulate the planets.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== The Angels Make Life In This Galaxy Boringly Homogenous. ==

I slept on this, but my original impression after watching Daybreak Park # 2 is that these Angels make things boring:

They create pidgins, dogs, cats, foxes, people, oranges, tuna, et cetera. I would not be surprised if the Angels dropped a big rock on the dinosaurs just so they can have a clean slate for creating rats.

Once they create people, they make the people invent pianos, worship Zeus, Yahweh, Thor, et cetera. They make the people play “All Along The Watchtower”. They see to it that the people create Cylons.

We are not descended from apes, but from # 8s — a little wordplay because 8 and ape sound similar. the mitochondrial DNA of the # 8s is so similar to that of Homo '' neanderthalensis '' that we apparently have a common ancestor, Homo '' heidelbergensis '' half a million years ago even though that is impossible.

If we explore the Galaxy, will only find humans and cylons. ¿What is the point? ¿Why bother exploring?

Arthur C. Clarke in '' 2001 '' had a similar idea of lonely aliens helping intelligent life evolve, but the beings did not care about the final form. In other words, diversity is the rule in '' 2001. ''

We still do not know the nature of these Angels other than that Starbuck seems to be one of them

I do not know how this fits into the article, but it fits into the article somehow. I figure that I should but this on the talkpages for '' Virtual Beings '' and '' Daybreak # 2. ''

----
From Act 10 section of article: "(This is in the year 1987 AD.)" How can it be 1987 when the flat panel TV clearly showed MSNBC logo at the bottom? MSNBC was created in 1996.--[[User:Steven512|Steven512]] 14:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, the robots you see in this scene were also developed after 1987 and as far as I know the remains of mitochondrial Eve have never been found.
In 1987 it was discovered that there had been a mitochondrial Eve, this was based on DNA-research among modern humans, her actual remains have not been found to this day so the scene takes place in the near future (it could even be tomorrow), not in 1987!
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:58, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

== Hera's Mate = Boxey? ==

From the notes section

''On the second Earth Hera's mate that produced children was most likely human. Saul Tigh and the Leobens would be too old for her. While it was fairly common in ancient times for the men to be far older than their brides (particularly with royalty), for example with the female being as young as 12 and and the male being say 60 to take an extreme, Colonial mores, which are much like our own in real life, would forbid the Leobens from sexual congress with Hera when she reach the accepted reproductive age. On the other hand there were many human children about her age and slightly older in the Fleet. She could had also had children with a human child unborn at the time of the landing on Second Earth perhaps within five years to ten years of her age. It is possible that other hybrid children could had been born after the landing given that the Twos, Sixes, and Eights joined the humans. And it is possible that pure Cylon children could had been born to the age compatible Sixes, Eights, and Leobens but as noted in the series it is difficult if not impossible for a pure Cylon child to come to term making any pool of pure Cylon children that were successfully born very small. Cylon-Human mating with a human male with a Six or a Sharon is very possible with the example of Hera herself an significantly more likely than with a Cylon-Cylon birth, but it is harder than with human-human pairings making any pool of those pairing while much more likely and larger than Cylon-Cylon offspring, still quite small number compared to pure human offspring. Therefore Hera's offspring is most likely with a human. A more remote possibility is with another Cylon-human hybrid. Her producing children with a pure Cylon offspring is the least likely since pure Cylons are the least likely to exist.''

Boxey could be Hera's mate. It would make sense.

Boxey as Y-chromosomal Adam? Or would that be "Adama"? heh--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: The chromosomal Adam live tens of thousands of years after the Mitochondrial Eve.

: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 17:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
::Walabio is right and why would it be more likely for Hera to end up with Boxey instead of with one of the other hundreds of children from the fleet?
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 18:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::The ''Y-chromosomal Adam'' reference was to make the pun based on Boxey being Apollo's adopted son in TOS :). As for why it would make sense, it be for no other reason that it would give the RDM version of the character some (belated) importance, which he lacked through the run of the show. Why have her end up with some random kid from the fleet than have her end up with a character who had some level of development? Plus, look at it this way, the original intent according to some references on this site say that the plan was to make Boxey, Tyrol, and Sharon (Boomer) a makeshift family. Having him end up with Hera accomplishes part of that intent as he'd be related to one version of Sharon (Athena)--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 18:31, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It is a moot point. He had NO relevant to BSG any more since they dropped him as a character. If they didn't drop him as a character I think the perfect end would had been making him that guy that was killed in the mutiny, you know the one that acted as a runner between CIC and some damaged area of the ship to get a damage report for Adama at the near the beginning of the mutiny? He was then later killed by Gaeta's trigger happy Marines when he pushed Adama to the deck, saving his life. That would had been a good way for Boxey to go. He would had been the right age (17) and would had gave his character an ultimate purpose, to save Adama when the time came.
::: Of course it is possible for Boxey and Hera to had gotten together. He would had been 14 years old when Hera was born but with Hera say 20 years old Boxey would had been 34, a reasonable age difference allowable in both our and Colonial Society. And further it would had been another of the shows many ironies and "what goes around, comes around" themes: Boxey, who was taken in by Boomer, an Eight as a quasi foster son, later marries the daughter of Athena, an Eight, who was stolen and then given back by Boomer who was then killed Athena. Imagine all the physiological turmoil that could case Boxey. This show thrived on that sort of thing. LOL [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 23:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

== Number Three ==

Couldn't they have sent a Raptor or an FTL-capable ship to find Number Three and bring her to the New Earth with them? It would have been the humane thing to do. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: She was left on a dead-to-humans world, where the only plant life we saw were grasses or other non-edibles, with a background radiation count above the safe level beyond short exposure: even the water was contaminated. She probably died within a few weeks of being left behind. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 12:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:: Good point. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It was established by Athena in [[The Passage]] that Cylons are far more resistant to radiation than humans are. In fact they bombed [[Caprica]] and the other Colonies with high yield nuclear weapons '''outside''' the cities so they could kill the humans but keep the buildings and infrastructure intact. We saw them settling in [[Caprica City]] in "[[Downloaded]]" even reopening the coffee shops, so radiation is of no problem to them (except for the rare special kind of Nebula radiation at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]) So it is possible for [[D'Anna Biers]] to survive the radiation of Earth One and even drink the rain water. Food on the other hand would be a problem and I saw no evidence of surviving animal life, and this all assumes that she wanted to survive, which I don't think she would due to staying on the radioactive rock in the first place. Still, it would had been a nice thing to try to find her. Maybe a miracle would had happened LOL. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:05, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

== "No Further Significant Revelations..."==

I think this statement in the advisory tag is premature. There's still "The Plan", as well as, in theory, the Caprica series, both of which might provide further revelations with regards to Daybreak and the series itself. Certainly The Plan, anyway. Not to mention the presumed deleted scenes that will be on the DVD and there's a rumor Daybreak will be extended for the DVD as well. There's still a chance for some issues to be resolved. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 13:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:That's interesting. I don't expect The Plan to reveal much of anything about what Kara became or who the Virtual beings were, but Caprica might explore it given the establishment that they appear at times when the cycle of time (machine on human violence) begins. Caprica might provide the answers to the lingering questions if for nothing more than to give fans of BSG a reason to watch. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::Let's hope so, though I don't expect they will reveal much more about the divine powers or the angels, ever. It would take away the mystery and the sense that there is something bigger than us (humans and cylons), now we are left wondering if the divine power is a God, or just a very advanced race (maybe the perpetrators (or their descendents) of the first holocaust during the first cycle are feeling guilty) and I think that's how Ron Moore intended it to be. However, ''Caprica'' may reveal more about colonial history: what happened to Kobol, how did humans move from Kobol to the colonies, why was that history almost completely forgotten (was there a colonial dark age) and who or what were the Lords of Kobol? --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:::I'm sure that many people would agree, or at least theorize, that the virtual beings are Moore's version of the beings of light from the Ship of Lights, especially considering what happened to Kara, which I've seen (here or elsewhere, I forget) compared to what happened to the Starbuck from the original series on the last episode of Galactica 80. I think that the reason why Moore must have decided to leave things vague is that he didn't want to "cheapen it" by introducing something like the Ship of Lights into his show, which was more realistic than the original version. Now that I think about it, when Baltar tells Six that "it" doesn't like to be called God, it could be that "it" is the Ship of Lights or whatever version of it that exist in this version of the story. It would be cool if there was more exploration of this in Caprica, as well as further exploration of the "jealous God" from Kobol (which I'm sure we'll hear more of due to this headmistress in Caprica who doesn't believe in the Lords of Kobol) and all the other lingering questions from the show. In fact, given that religion is an important aspect of Caprica as it was in BSG (RDM) I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of this down the line. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 17:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::::Hi, guys. Here's my two cents, since I'm the Senior Chief that added the special notice. "No further significant revelations" means "the story is generally over." BSG isn't Star Trek, guys. RDM has stated that there are some elements of the story that he wouldn't resolve, but that he would resolve the important stuff. Is that etched in stone somewhere? No. I'm sure ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' may open a few new questions. But until that series debuts, what we have is what we have. Battlestar Wiki allows some speculation because we're talking about a work of fiction. But to speculate further when no further answers are likely and people are making what's otherwise original research--that's [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]], and it's not allowed on Battlestar Wiki. For the purposes of this episode summary because its so long (and must be), we have to keep focus and not overload the article. Episode summaries are the only articles where questions can be asked (provided they don't go out of control) but many questions will not be answered. As soon as the noise dies down we can move some pressing questions to [[BW:OC|our special Q&A page answered by BSG co-producer Bradley Thompson]]. In my opinion, the nature of the Virtual Beings and Kara have been answered as far as RDM wanted to do. They are beings of divine source--and folks, religion is one thing that RDM loved to keep close to his chest to add to the BSG mystique. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::: I'm not saying that The Plan is going to answer all the unanswered questions, etc. However The Plan has been acknowledged as the coda for this series, and just as important to it as Razor was. However the special notice as I saw it wasn't just in reference to Daybreak, but to the Wiki in general, and that's where I think it's premature. In terms of Daybreak itself, I agree that any additional revelations in The Plan will likely be minor and there are unlikely to be any in Caprica at all relating to that particular episode. But I think questions that come to mind are still worth asking with regards to characters that could be addressed in The Plan. And unless someone has already seen The Plan, or RDM has explicitly stated otherwise, we can't really predict which characters may or may not be addressed. Something that might be interesting once The Plan airs and is analysed is to go through the episode articles and compile the outstanding questions that the series has left unanswered. I think there will be fewer than some think, with the remainder being just enough to put this series into the same league as "The Prisoner" in that people will still be arguing over "what does it mean" 40 years from now. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== How did the fleet reach Earth 2 / New Earth? ==
As far as I understood it before Galactica departed for the Colony they agreed to a rendezvous location with the fleet. But when jumping away from the colony Starbuck punched in the numbers of the song and Galactica jumped for its last time. But when it reappeared over New Earth the fleet also jumped right in. How did they get the coordinates (a raptor jumping to the rendezvous location?)? But how did they get them so fast? [[User:DJ Doena|DJ Doena]] 14:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:Galactica still had a few raptors left (we saw 7 of them landed on Earth) and 12 hours passed between the shot of Galactica jumping near the Moon and the rest of the fleet showing up, nothing fishy going on there. --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:30, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::The key here was time pressure. Someone had the coordinates, but with the chaos of getting sucked into a black hole, no one could give them to Kara in time before ''Galactica's'' final jump. When all was stable, someone remembered/recalled the Fleet's coordinates, sent a Raptor, and all was good. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:You missed the letters onscreen spelling "Twelve Hours Later". -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Consolidation change ==

Hey everyone! I just wanted to take a moment to explain the format and consolidation change for Act I. This change is a test for updating the event summary because:

*Each detail does not require a bullet.
*Having bullets for every event make it look redundant.

*However, having bullets between major events makes the summary flow a little better. This was the approach I used when summarizing [[Daybreak, Part I]]. It gives each scene a sense of distinction, like this example.

Are there any other opinions regarding this proposed change? If it's OK, I can start work on the other acts. -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 20:52, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:Given the massive data, it's okay to condense a few points. But keep it to maybe three or four lines condensed. Any larger and it's hard to follow. Try to keep it looking like the other episode guides as much as possible for consistency. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for the working guideline. As of this writing, Act I & II are done, and starting on the rest. Hope you guys like it! -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 07:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

==The robot at the end==
I corrected an addition in Story Notes that suggested the female robot at the very end is the one that was unveiled only a few days before the broadcast. That would have been very cool, but it's actually the "Actroid" which was unveiled 4 years ago. Interestingly I found Actroid, a 4-year-old technology, to be more lifelike than the one unveiled last week... [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

==The model on the cover of "Sports Limited"==
Here's a challenge for those who watched this on HD sets... I've heard it suggested that the model on the cover of "Sports Limited" (the SI-like magazine seen on the newsstand) might actually be Tricia Helfer. I can't tell at all on the computer-screen I'm using, but it might be a neat bit of trivia (not to mention it would open a line of speculation as to whether the Sixes have survived to the present day) if it's true. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 16:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

== Questions Section ==

I can never be more blunt than I tried to be before on these last two guides. The questions sections follow strict rules [[Battlestar_Wiki:Standards_and_Conventions/Episode_Guides#Questions_Section]] is the policy on this section. I am going to again clear out the questions section with the bad stuff. Users who do not follow our polices on the [[BW:SAC]] will be warned and if after being warned by doing it again, will be banned. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== Lie-dector test "question" ==

In the Questions section, somebody asked:'' "During the lie detector test in the flashback scene of William Adama's attempt to secure a civilian job, why did the interrogator ask him if he was a Cylon?"''

This was a control question in order to get a baseline from which to compare the real questions for deception. Such as if a polygraph-operator were to ask "Are you a dinosaur?" This fact was made immediately clear in the dialogue. This was in no way left unclear. It's not a mystery. It's not even a debate.

I've deleted it.

== What year is it "question" ==

Another rediculous addition to the Questions section: ''"What year is it on Earth during the final scene?"''

That too was answered by the title: "150,000 Years Later". Go back 150,000 years from 2009 AD, and you have the answer: 148000 B.C.E.

I've deleted the question.

== Regarding my edits to Questions Section ==

I've removed these three questions:

* Why so many zeros in the Model 0005?
* Does either Battlestar Galactica TV series exist in some form on the new Earth?
* Who or what is God exactly?

The first two are completely and utterly ridiculous and do not have any merit as questions. They will never be answered, and it's simply beneath the scope of what questions should be in that section in the first place.

The third question has been pretty much answered in the series by Baltar, who is essentially the mouthpiece of the writers coda on that subject. In the universe of BSG, God is a force of nature who doesn't like the name "God." -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:57, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

== Galactica breaking her back ==

Just noticed, Galactica made her final jump with her flight pods out, maybe thats what caused the damage? I mean the extra forces exerted on the ship because of the higher amount of ship to effect. It makes sense that Galactica jumping without her pods retracted would place extraordinary amount of stress on the ship. Every other time even when dropping through the atmosphere at New Caprica the Galactica always had her pods retracted fro a jump.
--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 08:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

:That could very well have been a contributing factor, but there are many other factors in play, too, namely
:*her age,
:*compromises made during construction,
:*accumulated stresses and fractures from past battle damage and the sheer number of jumps,
:*lack of proper dock repair and maintenance,
:*her last sustained pounding at close-range, and ramming into the Colony.
:And consider that Adama and Tigh were told that she only had a few more jumps in her before she suffers structural damage. The old girl was already falling apart.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 13:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I remember that one of the specialists told Adama that Galactica had 5 jumps left max, but nevermind it I just took notice of it and wanted to see what everyone else thought of it. EDIT: Also noticed that Glactica's flight pods went up and down of their own accord after the jump, maybe thats why they retract the pods? I think the Mercuries could non-retract jump because of the way their support struts are placed. By the looks of it the movement of the pods was absolutely massive and that kind of stress would most certainly break Galactica's back no matter what sort of structural damage she had before. --[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 07:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

==Cylon Longevity==

According to [[No Exit]], Ellen and the others created Cavil in the image of her father, so it stands to reason that, 40 years prior to the fall of the colonies, he was already a man in his 70'(s?) and in fact had not aged in those four decades. It can be assumed that the same holds true for the other six humanoid cylons, all of which were considerably younger than him.

The point here is, if humaoid Cylons don't age then the surviving Cylons who didn't make it to Earth wouldn't have died out as it has been speculated, be it from old age or lack of mates to reproduce with. Their longevity could surpass human longevity and they could be alive at the end of the series.

Furthermore there's the issue of boxing. They could have boxed themselves as a form of suspended animation to ensure their survival and programmed Guardian Centurions to watch over them.

All in all, there are many number of ways in which the humanoid Cylons that didn't make it to Earth could have survived. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit: Now that I think about it, what about the Cylons who did make it to Earth? If they don't age, how did they die out? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 00:33, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

: Perhaps aging was only a non-issue when they had resurrection tech. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::You mean, they did age but then transfered their conciousness to younger bodies? That's possible. What about the option to box their conciousness? They could still survive that way (sure, their bodies might die out without some form of suspended animation given that they are biological, but their conciousness could survive as 1s and 0s that could be downloaded into new bodies 150,000 years later). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Removed questions ==

I've removed the following questions:
* Who were/are the Lords of Kobol?
** Good question, but not one with any connection to this episode.
* What year is the present day?
** I'm not sure what this is asking. We are shown that the Colonial's present is 150 000 years before our own.
* Who is the dying leader? Laura Roslin? Galactica? Starbuck?
** The narrative gives us many explicit statements that it is Roslin, and she fits the role perfectly, making it unnecessary to try and jam someone else into the position. Doing so without clear indications from the show is speculation.
* What’s the deal with Kara Thrace?
** She was sent back by "God" as an angel to guide the people to the new Earth. Covered fairly conclusively, if not explicitly.
* What is the true nature of the Head People?
** They were angels, as was stated many times.
* Who or what is guiding events?
** Something akin to "God", though it doesn't like to be called that. I think this is covered sufficiently in the earlier question about why "God" is guiding events.
* Is Virtual Baltar really the archangel Gabriel? If not, is Virtual Leobon? (Assuming they're not actually the same being, that is.)
** Theory without basis in the show.
--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 23:41, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

== Parallel evolution ==

It is implausible scientifically that Earth humans and Colonials just happened to evolve in parallel without outside influence (possibly from the head beings). Therefore, I wouldn't state it as fact that they're alien to each other -- there is no support for that in the show. The facts are that they can mate and that the characters are surprised about humans existing on Earth, but I wouldn't go as far as drawing conclusions about the origins of Colonials and humans. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 19:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

:It could be that in the Galactica universe humans are the standard of life across the universe, which is why they never encountered other life forms during their travels. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I covered this on this very talkpage [[#The_Angels_Make_Life_In_This_Galaxy_Boringly_Homogenous. | here. ]] Basically, the [[Angel]]s guide evolution subtly by such means as dropping huge asteroids on the dinosaurs so that they can create dodos in their place. Because of these [[Angel]]s life is the same everywhere right down to identical pianofortes playing [[the Music | All Along The Watchtower. ]]

:: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 18:48, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:::Most importantly, don't forget the suits and ties, which were reinvented by accident or through the collective unconscious. Back to the topic, though - all I'm saying is that the fact that Earth humans are primitive in that era does not necessarily imply that the Colonials evolved totally independently on Kobol and are therefore aliens, as the note in the article stated. No need to make such bold conclusions for the sake of "You know what that actualy means?"-type trivia; we know the visible facts, and they should be reported as such, and we know there is a LOT that we don't know about the head beings, which opens up any number of possibilities for future storytelling. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 20:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::::"And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees" The Algae planet could have been terraformed by the 13th Tribe before they reached Earth (maybe they intended to settle there but then learned of the supernova and changed their minds, but not after they had terraformed the planet and built the temple). New Caprica had trees? Wasn't it mostly a desert? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:50, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::::: I shall address the remarks of Graf Iblis, None Of Your Business, and Man of the Atom together:

::::: What Graf Iblis says could make sense:

::::: Let us suppose that the [[Angel]]s scooped up humans from Our Earth, took them to Cobol taught them to talk and ruled over them as the [[Lords of Cobol]] 160 thousand years ago. That makes sense.

::::: About the trees on New Caprica, trees on our Earth come in 3 shapes:

* - Cone-Shaped

* - Mushroom-Shaped

* - Palm-Tree-Shaped

::::: For all 3 shapes one can find both angiosperms and gymnosperms. For the Palm-Tree-shaped we even have some ferns too. Convergent evolution like sharks and ichthyosaurs probably can explain the trees looking alike.

::::: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 23:55, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Daybreak, Part II/Archive 1

2009-04-26T23:55:28Z

Walabio: The Angels might be the Lords of Cobol and moved the humans from our Earth to Cobol.

== Move ==
Why move this? The way I understand this, this is still episode 20, but it will be lengthened to actually be 3 episodes long. So in a away there are 21/22 episodes even, and not 19. However, [http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/06/battlestars-fin.html This] says that the season will be 11 hours and not 12, but that doesn't mean that we need to get rid of episode 19 already. Especially given that the finale will probably air in at least 2 parts. So it makes some sense to have separate episodes guides for two airings. By production numbers this would be one episode, but split apart by airdate numbers. Maybe we should wait for some further clarification. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:It could be split up into 3 parts in reruns. I think it would be easier to start with a single article and then split as necessary after it airs. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::If Sci Fi is gonna pull a Miniseries and air this thing in two parts, we should pull a Miniseries too and have [[Miniseries, Night 1|separate]] [[Miniseries, Night 2|articles]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Which we can do after we know where the break point is. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 09:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

There's no reason to split the article at this time. We won't know how things will be aired until they're actually aired. All we know for now is that the finale's been extended... that's it. Creating two or three sections based on something we have absolutely very little information on is just... ill-advised. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 13:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:The proposal wasn't a split, but a merge with 419 I think (the article exists. It just isn't linked to, because it's an empty skeleton). But the result is the same. The way I understand it, 419+420 will be the finale then, with both episodes running 3 hours together (incl. ads I guess). We'll see. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ah, ok. Sounded like it would be a split, with at least one additional article, seeing as each article would cover an hour. Anyway, we don't have enough information to be certain; it's still really all up in the air, and they have now until doomsday to figure out how to release the thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

==Title==
''Daybreak, Part 2'' (and ''Part 3'') [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/09/battlestar-galactica-cruise-book.html according to producer Mark Verheiden].--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 19:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Can we PLEASE change the title of the page to Part II & Part III -- It is being sold on iTunes, Amazon, etc. and two completely different episodes and this actually screwed me up immensely because I ended up reading spoilers for Part 3 before I started watching it. Yes, this is how it aired, but it is not how it is being archived. -- [[User:Namtastic|Namtastic]] 13:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Analysis==
"Ronald D. Moore appears in a cameo as the man holding a National Geographic magazine in New York City. "

I think there is much more to it. Ronald D. Moore is appearing as himself reading that article because his knowledge of "Eve" influenced the series. In other words, the series is a result of the events depicted in the series. With that scene, Battlestar Galactica becomes part of Battlestar Galactica.

:This is impossibel since as of 2009 mitochondrial Eve's remains haven't been found yet, this scene is set in the future, after the series ended.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:02, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::Checkout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve. First articals apearred in 2003 ;)

It's not the same thing: we've known about mitochondrial Eve since before the series started, but her actual remains have not been found, there were never any bones of her found up to this day.
It's possible that Moore knowing about Eve's existence may have influenced the show, but he has never read an NGC article about the finding of her remains, simply because those remains haven't been found and thus never made their way into an NGC article.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Notes==

I recognised it immediately when watching the episode (and it's already on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daybreak_(Battlestar_Galactica)#Outside_references ), the "Kodiak" spacecraft from Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun can be seen among the fleet during this episode.

==(Un)answered questions)==

The following Ron Moore interview clears up some misunderstandings about the show: http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html

1) Kara Thrace's father was NOT the lost cylon Daniel.

2) The Missiles Racetrack's Raptor (accidentally) fires at the cylon colony were nukes that severely damaged the colony and made it fall from its stable orbit into the singularity (black hole) so the colony has been utterly destroyed.

3) The Earth which is discovered in this episode is not the same planet that was discovered in "Revelations." The Earth of "Revelations" was not the planet we now live on, but our Earth was named after it.

There are still a bunch of unanswered questions:

1) What is the nature of the divine power (although this was probably intentionally left unanswered.)

2) Who were the Lords of Kobol and what happened to that world?

3) How did the colonials get from Kobol to the colonies and if they were technologically advanced, how did they loose all knowledge of Kobol, save for some religious texts?

4) What happened to those who nuked the old Earth 2000 years ago, some of these victors would have survived, but they re never seen or heard from.

5) Why didn't Cavil and his cylons try to re-invent resurrection themselves as the technology wasn't that far ahead of them (it was re-invented by the final five on old-Earth in a civilization that hadn't even invented jump drives.)

6) How could the resurrection hub control all resurrection ships while there was never any mention of FTL-communication on the show and why wasn't the resurrection hub integrated into the colony rather than floating around in deep space, vulnerable and guarded by only 2 baseships.

7) Was the colony really the place where all cylons lived, was their civilization so small (and clearly no match for the colonial military before the holocaust) and are there no baseships left out there that still have cylons aboard who want to exact their revenge on humanity? They may die out like the article suggests, but there's nothing stopping them from taking Earth with them (provided they find it within their lifetime.)

8) What happened to the other rebel cylons? Was it just the 3 baseships that rebelled, and if not, where are the other 2's, 6's and 8's?

9) How did Lee get everyone to agree to give up technology (even medical)?

10) Had it not made more sense to build new cities on Earth and rebuild the advanced colonial civilization, when everyone understood how important equal treatment of cylons and humans is, instead of letting Earth's humans build their own civilization thousands of years later, humans who are likely to make the same old mistakes with artificial intelligence and repeat the cycle?

11) How come no intelligent alien life has ever been encountered by colonials or cylons in their histories, but when it finally happens these aliens are identical to humans, who somehow evolved separately from the Kobol humans? Somehow this amazing coincidence being an "act of God" seems like a rather unsatisfactory answer.

12) Since all the fleet's decisions after the Ellen's reapperarance have been about breaking the cycle, is Lee afraid that by having superior technology on earth the cylons and colonials would "enslave" the native population, creating yet another cycle?

-- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:: He doesn't actually say that about Kara. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:00, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

You're right, I've edited my post. -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

: I'd still like to know the origin of Kara's pristine Viper from her resurrection or how she died going into a gas giant with her corpse resting on a planet light-years away. And what the deal is with the Centurions from "Razor" and the Hybrid they deified. And while I understand his prophesy, I'd like to know why the old Hybrid didn't want Kara to lead a new civilisation to Earth. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Her being sent back with a new viper was supposed to be an act of the divine power. I think the Razor centurions were explained as regular mutineers, they saw the first hybrid as some kind of prophet because of the way it talked and wanted to protect it from being scrapped. Seeing as how Kara was largely responsible for the end of Cylon civilization, except the few centurions that are still left, this explains why '''CYLON''" hybrids call her the harbinger of death (it was never stated she was the harbinger of death for humanity.) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Gully, as for question four the Thirteenth Tribe's Earth got nuked by their Centurions. From the surface, not from space. M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). The Final Five secretly built a ship and rebuilt resurrection (Which the 13th Tribe hadn't needed since first achieving reproduction on Kobol). That was how they escaped. -- [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 04:24, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: Alright, but being centurions the radiation wouldn't really hurt them, they could easily have created their own civilization after the dust settled (a bit like the machines in the "Terminator".) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:47, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Machines can be disabled by radiation, and the impacts themselves would have destroyed the Centurions. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

From the article: “Since the notes of All Along the Watchtower lead to Earth, do they still serve a purpose on Earth?” answer: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen_(film) yes]. -- [[User:LaloMartins|LaloMartins]] 12:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Regarding point six, in [[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]], it was stated that, when the [[Resurrection Hub]] jumps, it transmits its' new location to the [[Hybrid]]s, so FTL communication technology definitely exists. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Adding a question on, the CGI Raptor launched ''16'' missiles, why were only 8 shown after the launch scene?--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 06:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

==== What Precisely Killed [[Margaret Edmondson|Racetrack]] and [[Hamish McCall|Skulls]]? ====

The Marines in the rear of the cabin were killed by explosive decompression and vacuum exposure, but Racetrack and Skulls were in sealed pressure suits. I don't recall seeing suit damage in that quick shot of Margaret's hand falling on the missile-launch button. Did the one penetrating rock cause invisible crushing injuries to both of them? It didn't look big enough to hit both of them square on. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:Skulls whas hit in his face or chest by the rock and there was a small hole in Racetrack's helmet when her hand fell on the button.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

==== [[Delphi]] ====

In the episode "[[Downloaded]]" the cylons were rebuilding the Caprican city of [[Delphi]] and living in it. Was this effort completely abandoned when the Cylons decided to occupy [[New Caprica]]? Or has the effort to recover [[Caprica_(RDM)|Caprica]] continued all this time and is it still occupied? Are there still a substantial number of human-Cylons living on Caprica? Will it become like first Earth before their holocaust, an entirely Cylon-populated society? Are any humans stragglers left alive on either Caprica or New Caprica? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 09:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:They likely did leave the colonies after [[Downloaded]], there may still be some baseships out there, but the cylons on them are aging and cannot procreate. Even if they found Earth within their lifetimes a handful of basestars probably don't have enough nukes to obliterate the Earth's surface, that is assuming they'll actually know humans are living on Earth: it's pretty hard to find a stone age culture or neolithic society from space, even when you're actively looking for them (sure the colonials found one tribe, but in order to kill all humans with a limited number of nukes you'd have to know the positions of every tribe on Earth.)
There may be human survivors left on the colonies but it's unlikely: sure, they may have survived the nukes and the radiation, but the cylons actively hunted them down, probably to populations too small to repopulate the planets.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== The Angels Make Life In This Galaxy Boringly Homogenous. ==

I slept on this, but my original impression after watching Daybreak Park # 2 is that these Angels make things boring:

They create pidgins, dogs, cats, foxes, people, oranges, tuna, et cetera. I would not be surprised if the Angels dropped a big rock on the dinosaurs just so they can have a clean slate for creating rats.

Once they create people, they make the people invent pianos, worship Zeus, Yahweh, Thor, et cetera. They make the people play “All Along The Watchtower”. They see to it that the people create Cylons.

We are not descended from apes, but from # 8s — a little wordplay because 8 and ape sound similar. the mitochondrial DNA of the # 8s is so similar to that of Homo '' neanderthalensis '' that we apparently have a common ancestor, Homo '' heidelbergensis '' half a million years ago even though that is impossible.

If we explore the Galaxy, will only find humans and cylons. ¿What is the point? ¿Why bother exploring?

Arthur C. Clarke in '' 2001 '' had a similar idea of lonely aliens helping intelligent life evolve, but the beings did not care about the final form. In other words, diversity is the rule in '' 2001. ''

We still do not know the nature of these Angels other than that Starbuck seems to be one of them

I do not know how this fits into the article, but it fits into the article somehow. I figure that I should but this on the talkpages for '' Virtual Beings '' and '' Daybreak # 2. ''

----
From Act 10 section of article: "(This is in the year 1987 AD.)" How can it be 1987 when the flat panel TV clearly showed MSNBC logo at the bottom? MSNBC was created in 1996.--[[User:Steven512|Steven512]] 14:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, the robots you see in this scene were also developed after 1987 and as far as I know the remains of mitochondrial Eve have never been found.
In 1987 it was discovered that there had been a mitochondrial Eve, this was based on DNA-research among modern humans, her actual remains have not been found to this day so the scene takes place in the near future (it could even be tomorrow), not in 1987!
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:58, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

== Hera's Mate = Boxey? ==

From the notes section

''On the second Earth Hera's mate that produced children was most likely human. Saul Tigh and the Leobens would be too old for her. While it was fairly common in ancient times for the men to be far older than their brides (particularly with royalty), for example with the female being as young as 12 and and the male being say 60 to take an extreme, Colonial mores, which are much like our own in real life, would forbid the Leobens from sexual congress with Hera when she reach the accepted reproductive age. On the other hand there were many human children about her age and slightly older in the Fleet. She could had also had children with a human child unborn at the time of the landing on Second Earth perhaps within five years to ten years of her age. It is possible that other hybrid children could had been born after the landing given that the Twos, Sixes, and Eights joined the humans. And it is possible that pure Cylon children could had been born to the age compatible Sixes, Eights, and Leobens but as noted in the series it is difficult if not impossible for a pure Cylon child to come to term making any pool of pure Cylon children that were successfully born very small. Cylon-Human mating with a human male with a Six or a Sharon is very possible with the example of Hera herself an significantly more likely than with a Cylon-Cylon birth, but it is harder than with human-human pairings making any pool of those pairing while much more likely and larger than Cylon-Cylon offspring, still quite small number compared to pure human offspring. Therefore Hera's offspring is most likely with a human. A more remote possibility is with another Cylon-human hybrid. Her producing children with a pure Cylon offspring is the least likely since pure Cylons are the least likely to exist.''

Boxey could be Hera's mate. It would make sense.

Boxey as Y-chromosomal Adam? Or would that be "Adama"? heh--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: The chromosomal Adam live tens of thousands of years after the Mitochondrial Eve.

: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 17:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
::Walabio is right and why would it be more likely for Hera to end up with Boxey instead of with one of the other hundreds of children from the fleet?
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 18:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::The ''Y-chromosomal Adam'' reference was to make the pun based on Boxey being Apollo's adopted son in TOS :). As for why it would make sense, it be for no other reason that it would give the RDM version of the character some (belated) importance, which he lacked through the run of the show. Why have her end up with some random kid from the fleet than have her end up with a character who had some level of development? Plus, look at it this way, the original intent according to some references on this site say that the plan was to make Boxey, Tyrol, and Sharon (Boomer) a makeshift family. Having him end up with Hera accomplishes part of that intent as he'd be related to one version of Sharon (Athena)--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 18:31, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It is a moot point. He had NO relevant to BSG any more since they dropped him as a character. If they didn't drop him as a character I think the perfect end would had been making him that guy that was killed in the mutiny, you know the one that acted as a runner between CIC and some damaged area of the ship to get a damage report for Adama at the near the beginning of the mutiny? He was then later killed by Gaeta's trigger happy Marines when he pushed Adama to the deck, saving his life. That would had been a good way for Boxey to go. He would had been the right age (17) and would had gave his character an ultimate purpose, to save Adama when the time came.
::: Of course it is possible for Boxey and Hera to had gotten together. He would had been 14 years old when Hera was born but with Hera say 20 years old Boxey would had been 34, a reasonable age difference allowable in both our and Colonial Society. And further it would had been another of the shows many ironies and "what goes around, comes around" themes: Boxey, who was taken in by Boomer, an Eight as a quasi foster son, later marries the daughter of Athena, an Eight, who was stolen and then given back by Boomer who was then killed Athena. Imagine all the physiological turmoil that could case Boxey. This show thrived on that sort of thing. LOL [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 23:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

== Number Three ==

Couldn't they have sent a Raptor or an FTL-capable ship to find Number Three and bring her to the New Earth with them? It would have been the humane thing to do. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: She was left on a dead-to-humans world, where the only plant life we saw were grasses or other non-edibles, with a background radiation count above the safe level beyond short exposure: even the water was contaminated. She probably died within a few weeks of being left behind. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 12:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:: Good point. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It was established by Athena in [[The Passage]] that Cylons are far more resistant to radiation than humans are. In fact they bombed [[Caprica]] and the other Colonies with high yield nuclear weapons '''outside''' the cities so they could kill the humans but keep the buildings and infrastructure intact. We saw them settling in [[Caprica City]] in "[[Downloaded]]" even reopening the coffee shops, so radiation is of no problem to them (except for the rare special kind of Nebula radiation at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]) So it is possible for [[D'Anna Biers]] to survive the radiation of Earth One and even drink the rain water. Food on the other hand would be a problem and I saw no evidence of surviving animal life, and this all assumes that she wanted to survive, which I don't think she would due to staying on the radioactive rock in the first place. Still, it would had been a nice thing to try to find her. Maybe a miracle would had happened LOL. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:05, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

== "No Further Significant Revelations..."==

I think this statement in the advisory tag is premature. There's still "The Plan", as well as, in theory, the Caprica series, both of which might provide further revelations with regards to Daybreak and the series itself. Certainly The Plan, anyway. Not to mention the presumed deleted scenes that will be on the DVD and there's a rumor Daybreak will be extended for the DVD as well. There's still a chance for some issues to be resolved. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 13:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:That's interesting. I don't expect The Plan to reveal much of anything about what Kara became or who the Virtual beings were, but Caprica might explore it given the establishment that they appear at times when the cycle of time (machine on human violence) begins. Caprica might provide the answers to the lingering questions if for nothing more than to give fans of BSG a reason to watch. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::Let's hope so, though I don't expect they will reveal much more about the divine powers or the angels, ever. It would take away the mystery and the sense that there is something bigger than us (humans and cylons), now we are left wondering if the divine power is a God, or just a very advanced race (maybe the perpetrators (or their descendents) of the first holocaust during the first cycle are feeling guilty) and I think that's how Ron Moore intended it to be. However, ''Caprica'' may reveal more about colonial history: what happened to Kobol, how did humans move from Kobol to the colonies, why was that history almost completely forgotten (was there a colonial dark age) and who or what were the Lords of Kobol? --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:::I'm sure that many people would agree, or at least theorize, that the virtual beings are Moore's version of the beings of light from the Ship of Lights, especially considering what happened to Kara, which I've seen (here or elsewhere, I forget) compared to what happened to the Starbuck from the original series on the last episode of Galactica 80. I think that the reason why Moore must have decided to leave things vague is that he didn't want to "cheapen it" by introducing something like the Ship of Lights into his show, which was more realistic than the original version. Now that I think about it, when Baltar tells Six that "it" doesn't like to be called God, it could be that "it" is the Ship of Lights or whatever version of it that exist in this version of the story. It would be cool if there was more exploration of this in Caprica, as well as further exploration of the "jealous God" from Kobol (which I'm sure we'll hear more of due to this headmistress in Caprica who doesn't believe in the Lords of Kobol) and all the other lingering questions from the show. In fact, given that religion is an important aspect of Caprica as it was in BSG (RDM) I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of this down the line. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 17:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::::Hi, guys. Here's my two cents, since I'm the Senior Chief that added the special notice. "No further significant revelations" means "the story is generally over." BSG isn't Star Trek, guys. RDM has stated that there are some elements of the story that he wouldn't resolve, but that he would resolve the important stuff. Is that etched in stone somewhere? No. I'm sure ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' may open a few new questions. But until that series debuts, what we have is what we have. Battlestar Wiki allows some speculation because we're talking about a work of fiction. But to speculate further when no further answers are likely and people are making what's otherwise original research--that's [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]], and it's not allowed on Battlestar Wiki. For the purposes of this episode summary because its so long (and must be), we have to keep focus and not overload the article. Episode summaries are the only articles where questions can be asked (provided they don't go out of control) but many questions will not be answered. As soon as the noise dies down we can move some pressing questions to [[BW:OC|our special Q&A page answered by BSG co-producer Bradley Thompson]]. In my opinion, the nature of the Virtual Beings and Kara have been answered as far as RDM wanted to do. They are beings of divine source--and folks, religion is one thing that RDM loved to keep close to his chest to add to the BSG mystique. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::: I'm not saying that The Plan is going to answer all the unanswered questions, etc. However The Plan has been acknowledged as the coda for this series, and just as important to it as Razor was. However the special notice as I saw it wasn't just in reference to Daybreak, but to the Wiki in general, and that's where I think it's premature. In terms of Daybreak itself, I agree that any additional revelations in The Plan will likely be minor and there are unlikely to be any in Caprica at all relating to that particular episode. But I think questions that come to mind are still worth asking with regards to characters that could be addressed in The Plan. And unless someone has already seen The Plan, or RDM has explicitly stated otherwise, we can't really predict which characters may or may not be addressed. Something that might be interesting once The Plan airs and is analysed is to go through the episode articles and compile the outstanding questions that the series has left unanswered. I think there will be fewer than some think, with the remainder being just enough to put this series into the same league as "The Prisoner" in that people will still be arguing over "what does it mean" 40 years from now. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== How did the fleet reach Earth 2 / New Earth? ==
As far as I understood it before Galactica departed for the Colony they agreed to a rendezvous location with the fleet. But when jumping away from the colony Starbuck punched in the numbers of the song and Galactica jumped for its last time. But when it reappeared over New Earth the fleet also jumped right in. How did they get the coordinates (a raptor jumping to the rendezvous location?)? But how did they get them so fast? [[User:DJ Doena|DJ Doena]] 14:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:Galactica still had a few raptors left (we saw 7 of them landed on Earth) and 12 hours passed between the shot of Galactica jumping near the Moon and the rest of the fleet showing up, nothing fishy going on there. --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:30, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::The key here was time pressure. Someone had the coordinates, but with the chaos of getting sucked into a black hole, no one could give them to Kara in time before ''Galactica's'' final jump. When all was stable, someone remembered/recalled the Fleet's coordinates, sent a Raptor, and all was good. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:You missed the letters onscreen spelling "Twelve Hours Later". -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Consolidation change ==

Hey everyone! I just wanted to take a moment to explain the format and consolidation change for Act I. This change is a test for updating the event summary because:

*Each detail does not require a bullet.
*Having bullets for every event make it look redundant.

*However, having bullets between major events makes the summary flow a little better. This was the approach I used when summarizing [[Daybreak, Part I]]. It gives each scene a sense of distinction, like this example.

Are there any other opinions regarding this proposed change? If it's OK, I can start work on the other acts. -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 20:52, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:Given the massive data, it's okay to condense a few points. But keep it to maybe three or four lines condensed. Any larger and it's hard to follow. Try to keep it looking like the other episode guides as much as possible for consistency. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for the working guideline. As of this writing, Act I & II are done, and starting on the rest. Hope you guys like it! -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 07:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

==The robot at the end==
I corrected an addition in Story Notes that suggested the female robot at the very end is the one that was unveiled only a few days before the broadcast. That would have been very cool, but it's actually the "Actroid" which was unveiled 4 years ago. Interestingly I found Actroid, a 4-year-old technology, to be more lifelike than the one unveiled last week... [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

==The model on the cover of "Sports Limited"==
Here's a challenge for those who watched this on HD sets... I've heard it suggested that the model on the cover of "Sports Limited" (the SI-like magazine seen on the newsstand) might actually be Tricia Helfer. I can't tell at all on the computer-screen I'm using, but it might be a neat bit of trivia (not to mention it would open a line of speculation as to whether the Sixes have survived to the present day) if it's true. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 16:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

== Questions Section ==

I can never be more blunt than I tried to be before on these last two guides. The questions sections follow strict rules [[Battlestar_Wiki:Standards_and_Conventions/Episode_Guides#Questions_Section]] is the policy on this section. I am going to again clear out the questions section with the bad stuff. Users who do not follow our polices on the [[BW:SAC]] will be warned and if after being warned by doing it again, will be banned. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== Lie-dector test "question" ==

In the Questions section, somebody asked:'' "During the lie detector test in the flashback scene of William Adama's attempt to secure a civilian job, why did the interrogator ask him if he was a Cylon?"''

This was a control question in order to get a baseline from which to compare the real questions for deception. Such as if a polygraph-operator were to ask "Are you a dinosaur?" This fact was made immediately clear in the dialogue. This was in no way left unclear. It's not a mystery. It's not even a debate.

I've deleted it.

== What year is it "question" ==

Another rediculous addition to the Questions section: ''"What year is it on Earth during the final scene?"''

That too was answered by the title: "150,000 Years Later". Go back 150,000 years from 2009 AD, and you have the answer: 148000 B.C.E.

I've deleted the question.

== Regarding my edits to Questions Section ==

I've removed these three questions:

* Why so many zeros in the Model 0005?
* Does either Battlestar Galactica TV series exist in some form on the new Earth?
* Who or what is God exactly?

The first two are completely and utterly ridiculous and do not have any merit as questions. They will never be answered, and it's simply beneath the scope of what questions should be in that section in the first place.

The third question has been pretty much answered in the series by Baltar, who is essentially the mouthpiece of the writers coda on that subject. In the universe of BSG, God is a force of nature who doesn't like the name "God." -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:57, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

== Galactica breaking her back ==

Just noticed, Galactica made her final jump with her flight pods out, maybe thats what caused the damage? I mean the extra forces exerted on the ship because of the higher amount of ship to effect. It makes sense that Galactica jumping without her pods retracted would place extraordinary amount of stress on the ship. Every other time even when dropping through the atmosphere at New Caprica the Galactica always had her pods retracted fro a jump.
--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 08:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

:That could very well have been a contributing factor, but there are many other factors in play, too, namely
:*her age,
:*compromises made during construction,
:*accumulated stresses and fractures from past battle damage and the sheer number of jumps,
:*lack of proper dock repair and maintenance,
:*her last sustained pounding at close-range, and ramming into the Colony.
:And consider that Adama and Tigh were told that she only had a few more jumps in her before she suffers structural damage. The old girl was already falling apart.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 13:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I remember that one of the specialists told Adama that Galactica had 5 jumps left max, but nevermind it I just took notice of it and wanted to see what everyone else thought of it. EDIT: Also noticed that Glactica's flight pods went up and down of their own accord after the jump, maybe thats why they retract the pods? I think the Mercuries could non-retract jump because of the way their support struts are placed. By the looks of it the movement of the pods was absolutely massive and that kind of stress would most certainly break Galactica's back no matter what sort of structural damage she had before. --[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 07:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

==Cylon Longevity==

According to [[No Exit]], Ellen and the others created Cavil in the image of her father, so it stands to reason that, 40 years prior to the fall of the colonies, he was already a man in his 70'(s?) and in fact had not aged in those four decades. It can be assumed that the same holds true for the other six humanoid cylons, all of which were considerably younger than him.

The point here is, if humaoid Cylons don't age then the surviving Cylons who didn't make it to Earth wouldn't have died out as it has been speculated, be it from old age or lack of mates to reproduce with. Their longevity could surpass human longevity and they could be alive at the end of the series.

Furthermore there's the issue of boxing. They could have boxed themselves as a form of suspended animation to ensure their survival and programmed Guardian Centurions to watch over them.

All in all, there are many number of ways in which the humanoid Cylons that didn't make it to Earth could have survived. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit: Now that I think about it, what about the Cylons who did make it to Earth? If they don't age, how did they die out? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 00:33, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

: Perhaps aging was only a non-issue when they had resurrection tech. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::You mean, they did age but then transfered their conciousness to younger bodies? That's possible. What about the option to box their conciousness? They could still survive that way (sure, their bodies might die out without some form of suspended animation given that they are biological, but their conciousness could survive as 1s and 0s that could be downloaded into new bodies 150,000 years later). --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:21, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Removed questions ==

I've removed the following questions:
* Who were/are the Lords of Kobol?
** Good question, but not one with any connection to this episode.
* What year is the present day?
** I'm not sure what this is asking. We are shown that the Colonial's present is 150 000 years before our own.
* Who is the dying leader? Laura Roslin? Galactica? Starbuck?
** The narrative gives us many explicit statements that it is Roslin, and she fits the role perfectly, making it unnecessary to try and jam someone else into the position. Doing so without clear indications from the show is speculation.
* What’s the deal with Kara Thrace?
** She was sent back by "God" as an angel to guide the people to the new Earth. Covered fairly conclusively, if not explicitly.
* What is the true nature of the Head People?
** They were angels, as was stated many times.
* Who or what is guiding events?
** Something akin to "God", though it doesn't like to be called that. I think this is covered sufficiently in the earlier question about why "God" is guiding events.
* Is Virtual Baltar really the archangel Gabriel? If not, is Virtual Leobon? (Assuming they're not actually the same being, that is.)
** Theory without basis in the show.
--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 23:41, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

== Parallel evolution ==

It is implausible scientifically that Earth humans and Colonials just happened to evolve in parallel without outside influence (possibly from the head beings). Therefore, I wouldn't state it as fact that they're alien to each other -- there is no support for that in the show. The facts are that they can mate and that the characters are surprised about humans existing on Earth, but I wouldn't go as far as drawing conclusions about the origins of Colonials and humans. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 19:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

:It could be that in the Galactica universe humans are the standard of life across the universe, which is why they never encountered other life forms during their travels. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I covered this on this very talkpage [[#The_Angels_Make_Life_In_This_Galaxy_Boringly_Homogenous. | here. ]] Basically, the [[Angel]]s guide evolution subtly by such means as dropping huge asteroids on the dinosaurs so that they can create dodos in their place. Because of these [[Angel]]s life is the same everywhere right down to identical pianofortes playing [[the Music | All Along The Watchtower. ]]

:: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 18:48, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:::Most importantly, don't forget the suits and ties, which were reinvented by accident or through the collective unconscious. Back to the topic, though - all I'm saying is that the fact that Earth humans are primitive in that era does not necessarily imply that the Colonials evolved totally independently on Kobol and are therefore aliens, as the note in the article stated. No need to make such bold conclusions for the sake of "You know what that actualy means?"-type trivia; we know the visible facts, and they should be reported as such, and we know there is a LOT that we don't know about the head beings, which opens up any number of possibilities for future storytelling. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 20:15, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::::"And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees" The Algae planet could have been terraformed by the 13th Tribe before they reached Earth (maybe they intended to settle there but then learned of the supernova and changed their minds, but not after they had terraformed the planet and built the temple). New Caprica had trees? Wasn't it mostly a desert? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:50, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

::::: I shall address the remarks of Graf Iblis and Man of the Atom together:

::::: What Graf Iblis says could make sense:

::::: Let us suppose that the [[Angel]]s scooped up humans from Our Earth, took them to Cobol taught them to talk and ruled over them as the [[Lords of Cobol]] 160 thousand years ago. That makes sense.

::::: About the trees on New Caprica, trees on our Earth come in 3 shapes:

* - Cone-Shaped

* - Mushroom-Shaped

* - Palm-Tree-Shaped

::::: For all 3 shapes one can find both angiosperms and gymnosperms. For the Palm-Tree-shaped we even have some ferns too. Convergent evolution like sharks and ichthyosaurs probably can explain the trees looking alike.

::::: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 23:55, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Daybreak, Part II

2009-04-26T23:25:45Z

Walabio: to >-> too

{{Message_box
| image = BSG WIKI Caution.png
| heading = CONTRIBUTORS: Remember that an episode summary is just that, a ''summary''. '''Don't use the article to ask questions that you haven't bothered to search for in related articles.''' Limit speculation; the Re-imagined Series is essentially over: ''no further significant revelations should be expected.'' Follow [[BW:SAC|standards]]: Don't ask questions in questions. If an answer is found, move that data to the relevant article, phrasing it as a statement in the article body. This article will be naturally long; be [[BW:CON|concise]] and avoid unnecessary detail. Thanks!
| message =
}}

{{Episode Data
| image=Battleofthecolony.jpg
| title= Daybreak, Part II & Part III
| season= 4
| episode= 20
| guests=
| writer= [[Ronald D. Moore]]<ref>http://rondmoore.com/Site/Blog/Entries/2008/4/18_Podcast_Success!.html</ref>
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=422-423
| rating=1.7<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.nbcumv.com/scifi/release_detail.nbc/scifi-20090324000000-4242update58.html|title='Battlestar Galactica Finale Blasts Away the Competition|date=24 March 2009|accessdate=25 March 2009|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>/2,364,000 viewers (Live+SD)<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/24/wwe-raw-hannah-montana-and-northern-lights-lead-cable-show-rankings/15073|title=WWE RAW, Hannah Montana and Northern Lights lead cable show rankings|date=24 March 2009|accessdate=25 March 2009|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>
| US airdate=March 20, 2009
| CAN airdate=March 20, 2009
| UK airdate=March 24, 2009
| dvd=
| population=
| prev=[[Daybreak, Part I]]
| next=[[The Plan]]
| extra='''Series Finale - 2 Hour Episode'''<ref>http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/06/battlestars-fin.html</ref>
| forumthread=3050
}}

== Overview ==

===Act 1===

The episode begins with a series of events that occurred before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Fall]].
*In a strip bar in [[Caprica City]], [[William Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh|Saul]] and [[Ellen Tigh]] enjoy themselves. Adama questions whether to take a civilian job or take command of an aged battlestar,<ref>This is a side reference to the events of the episode, "[[Hero]]"</ref> finally deciding on the civilian job.
*[[Kara Thrace]] has dinner in her apartment with her fiancé [[Zak Adama]] and his brother [[Lee Adama]]. The conversation turns to Lee Adama's decision to join the [[Colonial Forces]], despite his idealism and his dislike of his father. He simply answers that he received college funding in exchange for service.
*Elsewhere, [[Laura Roslin]] greets her date, Sean Allison, at her home. She eventually recognizes him as a former student from years ago. Despite the age difference, Roslin decides to let him stay the night.
*At the strip bar, Bill Adama asks Saul whether he'd have taken the civilian desk job. Saul doesn't answer.
*Lee Adama and Thrace manage to drag Zak to a couch after a night of drinking. But Thrace isn't done and challenges Lee to shots.
*Bill Adama is drunkenly sick, vomiting outside on the street. With a weak smile, he looks up to the stars in the night sky.

Aboard ''[[Galactica]]'', [[Gaius Baltar]] sits in the former home of his [[Cult of Baltar|followers]], now empty. [[Virtual beings|Virtual Six]] tells him to trust in [[God (RDM)|God's]] plan for him, a plan she says he is already following.

===Act 2===
Aboard ''[[Galactica]]'', final preparations are made for the mission...
* In [[sickbay]], Dr. [[Cottle]] leaves assistant [[Layne Ishay]] enough medication to allow Laura Roslin enough lucidity and mobility for 48 hours. She thanks him sincerely, leaving Cottle uncharacteristically speechless.
* In the [[pilot ready room]], [[Karl Agathon]] briefs the [[Raptor]] teams on the special nature of their rescue mission. Despite the odds, all volunteer.
* Lee Adama briefs the [[marines]] on Hera's likely location: deep inside the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] [[The Colony|colony]].
*In CIC, Admiral Adama work out the tactics of the battle against the colony; Close-range combat - no nuclear weapons and missiles.
* The [[Final Five]] plan to use [[Samuel Anders]], now effectively a [[Hybrid]] on ''[[Galactica]]'', to disrupt the Colony's Hybrids, a plan which requires Anders to be brought to [[CIC]] and connected to ''[[Galactica]]'''s computer systems.
* Saul Tigh is disturbed at the sight of gooey wires and conduit used to interface Anders with the battlestar.
* Admiral Adama hands over command of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] to [[Hoshi]], noting that if they aren't back from the mission in 12 hours, they will never come back. Similarly, Lee Adama appoints [[Romo Lampkin]] as President of the Twelve Colonies. He joins Admiral Hoshi on the last Raptor to leave ''Galactica'' for the baseship, the Fleet's new flagship.
* Baltar's followers get in the ship. Baltar enters, but then tells [[Paulla]] that he must stay on the ship. Lee Adama throws Baltar a weapon. As Baltar is given a weapon, a Number Six leads a large number of [[Cylon Centurion]]s down the [[hangar deck]]; a red sash painted on them for identification.

===Act 3===

*A shot of the Fleet shows that the rebel [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]] fully regenerated since the [[Cylon Civil War]], and ready to lead the civilians to safety. ''Galactica'' separates from the fleet, retracting its [[flight pod]]s to prep for [[FTL]].

*Adama asks to go "around the horn", with the [[Saul Tigh|XO]] calling out combat stations over the loudspeaker.
** In sickbay, Layne Ishay prepares sickbay for wounded, with Laura Roslin assisting as best she can.
** [[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]] are in [[launch tube]]s, and the entire Raptor squadron, armed with troops and missiles, have been placed inside the starboard flight pod deck, amidst the ruins of the old [[Galactica Museum]].
** Lee Adama and his force of marines (including Sergeant [[Allan Nowart]]) and red-striped centurions take their positions.
** Gaius Baltar is a soldier protecting the hallways against boarders. He is surprised to find [[Caprica-Six]] by his side.
** In CIC, Ellen Tigh signals that Anders is ready to work.
** Adama gives a final speech, a final understanding and call to arms.

*The battlestar jumps away from the fleet, and [[Battle of the Colony]] begins...
** ''Galactica'' arrives only meters from the edge of the Colony, and is immediately besieged by the Cylon batteries.
** Ellen starts up Sam Anders, who makes contact with the Colony Hybrids and takes them and the guns offline. Ellen warns that [[Cylon Raider]]s will appear any minute.
** ''Galactica'' responds by launching its fighter wings. The Vipers launch, and the Raptors jump directly from within the starboard pod to the opposite side of the Colony in a flanking position. The Raptor jumps, however, cause massive damage to the pod, with gas venting outside from a gaping hole.
** Adama orders the battlestar's engines ahead at flank speed, ramming the alligator head into the Colony. ''Galactica's'' inhabitants take a beating, but breach the Colony through the forced entry. Lee Adama leads his marines and several Cylon Centurions inside from a front airlock.
** [[Racetrack]] and [[Skulls]] arm their nuclear missiles, presumably to strike the Colony after the rescue. But suddenly a piece of debris strikes their Raptor, killing all aboard and leaving the Raptor adrift.
** Several Raptors, including the one with [[Sharon Agathon]], Helo, and Starbuck, dock and make their way into the Colony.
** Deep inside the Colony, a [[Simon]] works on young Hera as [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] looks on in disgust. When she questions why he continues to work on Hera when they are under attack, the Simon explains that they maintain and superior force and numbers. Boomer assaults the Simon, snapping his neck, and takes Hera out of the room.

===Act 4===

* The Colony's halls are filled with gunfire. Cylon Centurions, including older [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Model 0005s]] fight each other as the Colonial fire teams push through.
* [[Cavil]], a [[Number Five]] and another Simon decide to go on the offensive, to attack the battlestar with their troops.

* In a hallway in ''Galactica'', ready to repel boarders, Caprica-Six and Baltar come to terms with their old relationship. As they kiss, they hear a Six's voice. "All of the pieces are falling into place."
* The Virtual Six--''and'' the Virtual Baltar--stand above them. To the surprise of Caprica-Six and Baltar, they can hear and see each of the avatars.
* With a shudder, the battlestar hull is breached as waves of enemy Centurions, both old-model and modern, pour into the ship.

* The Agathon's team find Boomer, holding Hera. She gives the child to them, telling them to tell Admiral Adama that she "owed him one." With the child safe, Athena shoots Boomer.
* A flashback scene shows what Boomer meant: a time back in her days on '''Galactica'', as Adama and Tigh redress her but give her another chance to be a better pilot.

* Ishay has her hands full in sickbay, trying to triage and treat as many people as she can. The event is taxing, physically and mentally, for Roslin, as she comforts more dying than not.

* Lee Adama's team connects with Starbuck's team, with Hera in tow. When Lee asks where Thrace was, she answers, "Stopped for coffee."<ref>This might be the one time in the history of the series where an obvious joke to [[w:Starbucks Coffee|Starbucks Coffee]] has been used.</ref> With their objective complete and no other Colonial troops found, they head back to the battlestar's alligator-head.

* ''Galactica'' batteries are being targeted by Raiders. She is losing what little defensive ability she has left. Enemy forces are coming at the reserve forces--where Baltar waits.

===Act 5===

* Caprica-Six and Baltar hold off the enemy Centurions. Baltar's passion at killing Centurions gets a bit out of control as Lee Adama's team reenter the battlestar with Hera. As more enemies appear, Lee and Baltar fire away.
* Laura Roslin sits and experiences yet another vision of the [[Opera House]] and little Hera. Struggling to walk, driven by something she can't fully realize, she gets up to find Hera.
* Starbuck leads the Agathons through the hallways, but a Number Five appears from behind, seriously wounding Helo in the leg and killing a marine before Starbuck eliminates him. A damaged, but still functioning enemy Centurion shows up and in the confusion, Hera runs away. Athena runs after her at the request of her wounded husband.
* Hera walks amidst the gunfighting, when soon she encounters Roslin, who pulls out of the path of an enemy patrol and to safety. But when Roslin turns back to the child, she is gone again.
* Caprica-Six and Baltar are running, and are out of ammo. Suddenly they see Hera, as well as Roslin and Athena--all grouped together as in the Opera House vision. Caprica-Six scoops up the child and enters a hallway, closing the hatchway, preventing Athena and Roslin from following. The opera house vision had Caprica-Six and Baltar closing the door on boht Athena and Roslin after picking up Hera.
* As the scene shifts between visions of the Opera House and the corridors, Baltar and Caprica-Six realize what they must do: follow their vision into the Opera House--which turns out to be CIC, where the Final Five reside, overlooking the lower deck of CIC as they appeared in the vision, standing above.
* Adama and his men have apparently just finished defending the CIC from a break-in by Cavil, a Doral and a Simon. The Doral and the Simon are dead, and Cavil is under guard. An explosion rocks the CIC, and Cavil picks up a gun and grabs Hera as a shield.
* Baltar pleads for the child's freedom, telling Cavil that Hera is key to humanity's survival as well. He reasons with Cavil that there are higher forces at work, that led them all, here, for a reason. Baltar also reveals that he has been visited by angels - the agents of God. When Cavil questions if God has his people's interests at heart, on how Baltar knows that God is on his side, Baltar replies (in an allusion of something [[The Hand of God (RDM)| Virtual Six once told him]]), "God is not on anyone's side." The Virtual Six and Virtual Baltar look on with a pleased expression.
* Baltar asks Cavil to take a leap of faith. Saul Tigh sweetens the pot by offering to reteach Cavil the secret of [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]], this time in exchange not only for Hera's life but for permanent peace, where the Cylons leave humanity alone.
* Cavil agrees. He uses the Battlestar comm to order his forces to stand down and releases Hera. Admiral Adama orders stand-down as well.

===Act 6===

* Vipers and Raptors return to ''Galactica'' as the Raiders return to the Colony. Laura Roslin joins the admiral in CIC.
* The Five each know part of the secret to resurrection. They will combine their knowledge by connecting themselves through the water in Ander's tank. Ellen Tigh tells the others that the process will also share memories as well as data.
* But before they begin, [[Tory Foster]], visibly anxious, warns the others that they will see "certain things" of their bad behavior. She tries to prepare the others of what they will see of her. An impatient Cavil screams. "Hey! I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"
* The Five dip their hands and make the connection. As the data flows to the Colony, Foster's visions of murdering [[Cally Tyrol]] in an effort to protect her secret of being a Cylon comes to the forefront, surprising the others of the Five, and angering [[Galen Tyrol]] immediately.
* Tyrol pulls his hand from the pool and wraps both hands tightly around Foster's neck in a death-grip, eventually snapping her neck.
* As Anders screams from the sudden disconnection, the Cylons in CIC believe they are deceived and open fire. The Colonials kill all but Cavil, who shouts an exasperated "[[Frak]]!" before putting his pistol in his mouth and pulling the trigger.

* High above, as the Raiders begin attacking ''Galactica'' again, [[Racetrack]]'s damaged Raptor drifts, its crew lifeless. A rock strikes the ship, causing Racetrack's dead hand to strike the firing button to the Raptor's tactical nuclear missiles, launching them all straight at the Colony.
* The force of the explosions severely damage the Colony, pushing it towards the black hole, threatening to take ''Galactica'' with it.
* Adama orders Kara Thrace to make a [[blind jump]], but Thrace thinks about [[The Music|the music her father played]], the music that Hera wrote to her. Recalling the mathematical associations she tried to discern from the music, Thrace realizes the music works as a series of FTL coordinates.
* She punches in the coordinates into the [[Computers|navigation computer]] and jumps the ship.

* A flashback scene appears where Lee Adama and Kara Thrace talk about how she [[The Destiny|thinks about death]] every time she gets into a cockpit.

* ''Galactica'' completes the jump--but the strain of the last battle causes the battlestar's structure to ripple and twist as structural members tear and break. The ship will never jump again. Engines and life support are still online, but ''Galactica's'' backbone is broken.
* "Where have you taken us, Kara?" Roslin asks, as the scene changes to an exterior shot to show the battlestar flying over a gray, rocky moon.
* But is not just a moon...''Galactica'' has arrived at the ''moon of Earth''...another Earth, this one with the continent of Africa in prominent view.

===Act 7===
[[File:Battlestar Over Africa.jpg|thumb|right|200px|right|A crippled ''Galactica'' seen in orbit over the Sahara Desert.]]
* Twelve hours later, the Fleet jumps into the new Earth's orbit as ''Galactica'' passes by. A Raptor came to Hoshi to guide them to new Earth.
* Landing ship after landing ship leave for the new world, which unlike the old Earth, is clearly lush and full of life.
* On a green, rich savanna in Africa, Admiral Adama, Cottle, Saul Tigh, Hoshi, and Baltar look on, lying prone on their stomachs with binoculars at a tribe of early humans. Cottle confirms that the native humans are compatible with the Colonials genetically. Adama is astonished that humans just so happened to have evolved on this particular world.
* At a camp, as Lampkin starts making plans for the construction of a city, Lee Adama tells him to let humanity start all over again, leave their technology behind, which has almost always gotten them into trouble. Let the Colonials enter the new world with just their basic possessions.

* Admiral Adama maps out a plan to populate various continents and land masses, spreading out humanity and Cylon far and wide, distributing supplies to give all a good chance of survival. To Lampkin's surprise, the peoples of the Fleet take a liking to leaving technology behind.
* A [[Number Two]] tells Adama that the remaining Twos, Sixes, and Eights will stay on Earth as well, handing over the baseship to the Centurions, to give them their own freedom. When Lampkin questions if setting the Centurions free won't cause another holocaust hundreds of years from now, Ellen Tigh agrees it's a risk, but believes the cycle of death has been ended. Adama agrees.
* Adama tells that, after everyone is offloaded from the ships, the Fleet will reunite with ''Galactica'' a final time. Piloted by Samuel Anders, still in his tank in CIC, connected into the battlestar, he will fly all the ships on a final voyage into the Sun.

* Kara Thrace, eyes filled with tears, meets with Anders at his tank, kissing him goodbye for the last time, and leaving her [[dog tags]]. As she leaves, he mutters, "I'll see you on the other side."

===Act 8===

* Admiral William Adama descends into the hangar deck, wearing a [[flight suit]]. The deck is otherwise completely empty of anything, and anyone.
* He takes a seat in a [[Viper Mark II]]. Not just any Mark II...but the one that Galen Tyrol's team rebuilt for him as a retirement gift [[Miniseries, Night 1|so long ago]].
* As Adama's Viper launches, the scene shifts to six years prior, where Adama is taking a lie detector test for the prospective desk job. When the test administrator asks him test questions such as, "Are you a Cylon?" and "Have you ever stolen money from a cash drawer?" Adama is angered and leaves, saying, "I'd rather spend the rest of my career--what's left of it--on a broken old down ship, than to have someone sit here and question my word."
* Husker's Viper makes a final fly-by of the old battlestar, looking at her one last time before pointing his Viper towards Earth.
[[File:The fleet's end.jpg|thumb|180px|right|The [[fleet]] heading straight into the Sun.]]
* Samuel Anders' voice from the past talks of his days in sport, dreaming of perfection, and being linked to it, to creation, as Anders guides the Fleet, now united to the mathematical perfection he once spoke of through his duties as a Hybrid.
* As the [[Colonial_Anthem|Colonial Anthem]]--a version of the [[Original Series]] main theme--plays, the scene shows ''Galactica'' and the Fleet gathered a final time, heading away from Earth and towards the sun to its demise.

* Walking in the savannah, the Tighs speak with Galen Tyrol a final time. He has decided to go to the northern highlands of Earth (likely Scotland <ref>http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html</ref>). The scene shifts to the Tighs, partying back in Caprica City, once upon a time.

===Act 9===

* On the plains, Bill Adama sits with Laura Roslin, watching herds of gazelle. Her vision weakening, she tries to use her glasses with the binoculars. "A very beautiful world," she says. When she asks what the name of the planet is, Adama tells her it's Earth. He adds, "Earth is a dream," believing that their new home, a long-sought destination, deserves the name.
* Roslin's breathing becomes labored and shallow. Adama offers to give her a better look at the wildlife. He picks her up and carries her to a nearby Raptor.
* Lee Adama and Kara Thrace notice and meet Bill Adama there. The Adamas hug, and Bill Adama gives Thrace a final greeting of "[[Nothing but the rain]]" before he hugs and kisses her. Thrace and Lee wave goodbye to a smiling Roslin as the Raptor ascends.

* Lee realizes that his father isn't coming back. Kara Thrace tells Lee that she isn't coming back, either. "I just know that I am done here. I've completed my journey...and it feels good."

* A flashback scene, back in Thrace's apartment, where Thrace dares Lee to make love to her on her dining room table. But before they could do anything, the crash of a glass partially awakens Zak, causing the two to realize what they were doing. They shake hands and say goodbye.

* "Today is the first day of the rest of your life, Lee," Kara Thrace says. As Lee tells her of desire to explore and climb mountains, he turns to find that Kara Thrace has vanished, as if she were a ghost. "Goodbye, Kara," he says. "You won't be forgotten."
* A flashback scene shows the pigeon that would be trapped in Lee's apartment after his visit to Kara and Zak. It looks at Lee and flies out of the window and away.

* In another flashback from six years prior, Laura Roslin returns to stand by the side of the bed, thanks Sean Allison, but tells him that they will not meet this way again, and asks him to leave. As the man leaves, Roslin returns to her bathroom, lights a cigarette, then makes a phone call. She accepts the opportunity to work on Mayor [[Richard Adar]]'s campaign.

* Bill Adama's Raptor flies over flamingos. "So much..life," Laura Roslin says...her final words as she closes her eyes and quietly passes.
* Moments go by before Bill realizes that she is gone.
* In tears, Bill removes his wedding ring and places it on Laura's hand. "Right there...I'm going to build our cabin right there," he says, pointing to some hills.

===Act 10===

* A line of people walk into the wilderness, calm and ready to take on the world. Romo Lampkin appears to be in charge. Saul and Ellen Tigh bring up the rear.
* The Agathons walk as well, Helo using a makeshift crutch, talking of hunting and other pleasantries. Hera runs about in play, a smile on her face.

* Gaius Baltar and Caprica-Six look on at Hera playing as the Virtual Six and Baltar reappear. When Caprica-Six questions if the protection of Hera was all that God wanted of them, the Virtual Six replies, "God's plan is never complete." "Great..." Baltar replies sullenly.
* Virtual-Baltar counters, "I think it's safe to say that, from now on, your lives will be less...eventful."

* Another flashback to Caprica City. Baltar offers Caprica-Six an opportunity to "peek" into the [[Colonial Defense Mainframe]].

* When Baltar points to some land, he recalls his heritage, and [[Julius Baltar|his father]], and that he knows a bit about farming, to a bit of tears.

* Bill Adama sits near a cairn he built for Laura Roslin's body, and looking out into the hills and valley, speaks to her.

* The scene turns to show Hera playing and looking upward. Scenes of wood and desert and sea pass by in a geologic montage to reveal an Earth city - New York City - 150,000 years later.

* As a fly-over of the city appears, a voice-over of Virtual-Six reads from a magazine article of the Tanzanian discovery of the bones of what scientists believe are the remains of the [[w:mitochondrial Eve|mitochondrial Eve]], the matrilineal common ancestor of mankind.

* As [[Ron D. Moore|a man reads]] about the scientific discovery, the Virtual Six and Baltar look over his shoulder at a magazine article of the news, and reveal what they know...the bones are that of Hera Agathon, born of a Cylon mother and a human father. No other people on the street appear to notice them.

* The two talk of the technology and decadence, of whether this Earth will repeat the mistakes of generations past and again become overwhelmed by their creations. The Six thinks not, believing it to be God's plan.

* "You know it doesn't like that name," Baltar says. Six only looks back in mild defiance. "Silly. Silly me," he replies as the two walk away into the metropolis.

* The episode concludes with scenes of robots, from toys to advanced automatons growing and evolving, as Jimi Hendrix's--Earth's popular version--of "[[The Music|All Along The Watchtower]]" plays, ending with an image of [http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-10744-Robot+or+Human%3F+Here%27s+ACTROID.html an attractive-looking female automaton] gazing out over Times Square from a giant outdoor television screen as Six and Baltar walk off into the distance.

== Notes ==
:''See [[Daybreak, Part II/Notes]]''

== Analysis ==
===Who and what guided them===
*The coordinates that Thrace enters, 1123 / 6536 / 5321 correspond to the notation of the Final Four theme [http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/theme-watchtower.jpg]. The song is in a C# Phrygian scale (enharmonic with A major and F# minor). 1 represents C#, and each higher integer indicates the next note in the scale, such that

:1 = C#
:2 = D
:3 = E
:(4 = F#)
:5 = G#
:6 = A
:(7 = B)

:The linked graphic omits the first and last note of the theme, but both can be heard in the soundtrack during the jump montage. The second "five" (in the third chunk of four digits) corresponds to the tuplet G#/A/G#, effectively omitting the trill up to high A. Every note has the same duration except for the last two, which are twice the length of the others.
*The Virtual Beings are angels of 'God' who came to guide Baltar and Caprica Six in their destiny of protecting Hera.
*Kara Thrace is an angel who was sent back from the dead to guide humanity to a new home the coordinates of which were hidden in the Music.
*The final scenes of this episode, in fast-forwarding through time and attempting to set the entire work as a backstory, make the ending similar to that of the film [[Wikipedia:How the West Was Won (film)|How the West Was Won]].
* There are at least two distinct angels. They have known each other a long time and born witness to Kobol and the original Earth, as well as the Twelve Colonies and the new Earth. They can walk around and observe events even when no one else present can see them, though they may have the ability to appear to anyone they wish. In the final scene, a man walking by the Angel Six appears to check her out (though this may have been a simple acting goof or an actual pedestrian happening by).
* The constellation [[w:Ursa Major|Ursa Major]] (commonly known as the "Big Dipper") appears briefly in this episode by mistake<ref>Revealed by [[Adam "Mojo" Lebowitz]] in his [http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2009/03/26/my-god-it-full-of-the-wrong-stars/ blog post].</ref>. It makes only the second appearance of a recognizable star pattern in the series, the first being Orion in "[[The Ties That Bind]]" (Orion is also visible in this episode).
* Adama's statement that New Earth is "one million light years" from Kobol must be taken as exaggeration or an error. The Milky Way is 100 000 light years across, and earlier statements in the show indicate that it considerable time to travel much shorter distances.
** It's possible that Adama's "million light years" comment is meant metaphorically instead of literally, in essence saying the Colonials have come an unthinkable distance to reach their new home.

===Reproduction of the Races===
*It is likely that some Ones, Fours, and Fives survived the destruction of the Colony, given that baseships were observed jumping in and out of the system by Racetrack and Skulls. They would not, however, have any long term survival prospects, having failed in both their plan to discover the secret that allowed Hera to be born and their attempt to gain the secrets of resurrection.
*Hera's mate or mates that produced children could be a Colonial human, a native Earth human, or even a another human-Cylon hybrid. All three races are strongly implied to be ancestors of what we consider to be modern day humans.
** The Final Five can be considered ancestors of present-day humanity through their quasi-parental link with Athena and the other Eights, Twos, and Sixes although it is unlikely they have a direct genetic link to us due to their age, deceased status or self imposed isolation.
* Mitochondrial Eve, Hera, is the most recent matrilineal common ancestor for ''all'' people alive on Earth today. Like Hera, all people alive on Earth today carry some Cylon genes along with human genes--no one is one hundred percent "pure" Colonial human, as those who fled the Twelve Colonies were. Assuming that there are no "pure" humans living somewhere else in the universe today (descendants of the tiny number of survivors left behind in the Colonies), this means that humanity, as it was defined by people in the Twelve Colonies, has gone extinct, fulfilling the prophecies about the end of the human race.

===Miscellaneous===
*[[Ronald D. Moore]] appears as himself holding a ''National Geographic'' magazine in New York City.
*The shelters erected by the Colonials on Earth resemble [[Wikipedia:Quonset hut|Quonset huts]], World War II-era temporary structures.
* In another piece of irony in a program that is full of such, the two beings most directly responsible for the attack and destruction of the Twelve Colonies, Gaius Baltar and Caprica Six, get to live on a lush green New Earth in love with each other.
* Even if humanity does repeat the Cycle, Lee Adama's plan would seem to have had some success, because it will have taken much, much longer to do so this time around.
* Ellen says that hopefully the [[Hybrid]]s will ''still'' respond to Anders' commands. In other words, they would recognize him from the time the Final Five ran the Colony.
* Cavil's suicide, in the way it is framed and executed, closely mirrors the televised 1987 suicide of American politician [[w:Budd Dwyer|Budd Dwyer]].
* Adama's drunken moment, where he sits against a wall, vomits, and then looks up at the night sky, echoes [[w:Oscar Wilde|Oscar Wilde]]'s famous aphorism: ''We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.''
* Though it was never explicitly states in the Miniseries or after, it seems that Tigh was indeed planning to retire whenever Adama decided to leave the Colonial Military. The flashbacks in this episode to Saul and Ellen Tigh in the bar make it clear that Tigh is planning on following Adama out of the service. However Adama, as viewers come to see, decides ultimately to finish out his last years as the CO of ''Galactica'' despite reservations. Tigh obviously followed. This also sheds more light on Tigh's eventual estrangement from Ellen- which was where their relationship was at in the miniseries. The bitterness she doubtless felt at Tigh once again choosing Bill Adama over her was probably a factor in not only her noted loose behaviour, but their growing estrangement before the war.
*It is not entirely clear when in Adama's career he decided to pursue the idea of a civilian job as seen in both parts of "Daybreak". Dialogue during the lie detector test scene suggests Adama has been given his orders to command ''Galactica'', but is considering resigning before taking up the post. However, Adama notes in his initial interview with his prospective employer in the previous episode that he has already commanded two battlestars. One of these is obviously ''[[Valkyrie]]'', but it is not clear if Adama is already referring to ''Galactica'' as the second command (which could also suggest he is already commanding ''Galactica'' at the time this flashback is set and is considering his resignation when on leave from that ship), or to another battlestar that Adama once commanded but has never been mentioned before.
* In [[Sharon Valerii]]'s flashback immediately after she was killed by [[Sharon Agathon|Sharon "Athena" Agathon]], then-Commander Adama was upbraiding her for her constant poor landings he, among other things, told her she was not to let her personal life get in the way. This is a direct reference to the fact that she is still struggling with survivors guilt over her parents deaths on [[Troy (RDM)|Troy]], which occurred when she was undergoing training in the Colonial Military. The "deaths" of her parents were staged, however, by the Cylons who destroyed the colony of Troy to coincide with Valerii's activation as a sleeper agent. (The scenes were filmed, but cut from the aired version of the episode.)
* Chief Engineer Galen Tyrol's decision to travel to a highland area, which is implied to be Scotland, is a possible nod to the ''Star Trek'' character [[MemoryAlpha:Montgomery Scott|"Scotty"]], another famous science fiction engineer.

== Questions ==

* What happened to the newly liberated Centurions?
* What happened to the Raiders?
* Why does "God" want the Cycle to be broken?
* What was the "similar incident" Skulls was starting to tell Racetrack about just before they were killed?
* What is the 'it' that does not like to be called 'God', and why does it "not like that name"?

== Official Statements ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Virtual Baltar says the last line of the series as he walks down a street of modern day New York City with Virtual Six. Baltar questions what God wants to be really called:''
:'''Virtual Baltar''' (moving in closer to V-Six, whispers): "You know it doesn't like that name!"
:'''Virtual Six''' (Doesn't answer vocally but her expression says "C'mon! you know better than that!"): ...........
:'''Virtual Baltar''' (Seeing her reaction): "Silly Me.....silly, silly me."

*''The Galactica is about to jump to The Colony and into harms way:''
:'''Admiral Adama''': "Just so there'll be no misunderstandings later... ''Galactica'' has seen a lot of history, gone through a lot of battles. This ''will'' be her last. She will not fail us if we do not fail her. If we succeed in our mission, ''Galactica'' will bring us home. If we don't... it doesn’t matter anyway."

*''Tory Foster is saying something to the other Final Five who are about to download the specifications of Resurrection technology, delaying things. Cavil is impatient and shouts from below up to the Five:''
:'''Cavil''': "HEY! I DON'T MEAN TO RUSH YOU BUT YOU ARE KEEPING TWO CIVILIZATIONS WAITING!"

*''The Final Five are about to to stick their hand into Anders's hybrid tank and through that the [[datastream]] They are about to download the technical data of Resurrection to the Cavil Faction's Colony as agreed. As they do so their minds will essentially become one and they will all know each other's secrets whether they want to share or not. Tory Foster is unusually agitated and nervous:''
:'''Tory Foster''' (hesitantly with slight fear): "There are things that....that we've all done. Certain things that...people would be shocked.... to learn about."
:(Cavil impatiently shouts from below, Foster continues)
:'''Tory Foster''' (voice trembling slightly): Let's....Let's just all agree that no matter what we learn about each other...we're all Cylons and we're all capable of making mistakes."
:''(Those were her last words. Less than two minutes later, Tyrol learns of Tory murdering Cally and kills Tory by snapping her neck. She was being strangled too tightly to say anything else.)''

*''Cavil's last word before he commits suicide.''
:'''Cavil''': "Frak!"

*''Nuclear missles hitting it, have disturbed the Colony's balanced orbit, immediately causing it to start falling into the Singularity and it is dragging Galactica with it. Starbuck is frantically attempting to figure out the jump coordinates. This is a lyric from the song "All Along the Watchtower.''''
:'''Starbuck''': "There must be some kind of way out of here!"

*''Virtual Six and Virtual Baltar speculating if the cycle will continue.''
:'''Virtual Six''': "All of this has happened before..."
:'''Virtual Baltar''': "But the question remains: does all of this have to happen again?"

*''Sam Anders, essentially Galactica's Hybrid, says his last words to Kara Thrace after she leaves his side.''
:'''Samuel Anders''': "[[Maelstrom|See you on the other side]]."

*''Baltar to Caprica Six on New Earth in unspoken reference about his father''
:'''Baltar''': "You know, I know about farming." (sobs)

*''Laura Roslin is speaking to Dr. Cottle about the state of her health which both know it is grave with only a few days to live. Also, she is about to essentially go into battle to retrieve Hera and the Doctor appears to be on the verge of choking up:''
:'''Laura Roslin''': "Don't spoil your image, just light a cigarette and go and grumble."

*''Former Admiral of the Fleet William Adama is showing Laura their new home on New Earth in a Raptor. She sees a herd of gazelles stampeding at the sight of the Raptor over the lush and rich landscape and says her last words:''
:'''Roslin''': "So much life..."

*''William Adama is sitting on a high ridge, looking out on a spectacular view of the savannah. Nearby is Laura Roslin's grave, and his last spoken words in the series are to her:''
:'''William Adama''': "I laid out the cabin today. It's gonna have an easterly view. You should see the light that we get here. When the sun comes from behind the mountains, it's almost heavenly. It reminds me of you."

*''Boomer has just given over Hera to Athena, saving her life from Cavil and Simon dissection-and both redeeming herself and condemning herself to death''
:'''Boomer''' (to Athena): "Tell the old man, I owed him one."
:'''Athena''' (angrily) "Doesn't change anything you did though!"
:'''Boomer''' (shakes her head slightly): "No. We all make our choices. Today I made a choice. I think its my last one."
:'''Starbuck''': "All right this is really touching. Now can we get the frak out of here!?!"
:'''Boomer''' (to Starbuck): "You should know that your Raptor been destroyed. You can't go back that way."
:(Athena passes Hera to Helo)
:'''Athena''': "Yeah well, that is not the plan."
:'''Starbuck''' (sardonically): "Can we ''not'' tell her the plan?"
:'''Athena''': "Right."
:''(Athena and Boomer look each other in the eye for a moment. Athena raises her weapon. Boomer does not try to flee, accepting, if not welcoming her fate. Athena fires. Boomer is dead before she hits the deck.)''

== Guest Stars ==
* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Number Two]]
* [[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
* [[Rick Worthy]] as [[Number Four]]
* [[Mark Sheppard]] as [[Romo Lampkin]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Sherman Cottle]]
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Kerry Norton]] as [[Layne Ishay]]
* [[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Number One]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lieutenant [[Brendan Costanza|Brenden "Hotdog" Costanza]]
* [[Leah Cairns]] as Lieutenant [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
* [[Brad Dryborough]] as Lieutenant/Admiral [[Louis Hoshi]]
* [[Colin Lawrence]] as Ensign [[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]]
* [[Lara Gilchrist]] as [[Paulla Schaffer]]
* [[Colin Corrigan]] as Marine [[Allan Nowart]]
* [[Leela Savasta]] as [[Tracey Anne]]
* [[Darcy Laurie]] as [[Dealino]]
* [[Iliana Gomez-Martinez]] as [[Hera Agathon]]
* [[Tobias Mehler]] as [[Zak Adama]]
* [[Simone Bailly]] as [[Shona]]
* [[Kevin McNulty]] as [[Frank Porthos]]
* [[Richard Jollymore]] as Marine #1
* [[Anthony St. John]] as Marine #2
* [[Dan Payne]] as [[Sean Allison]]
* [[Holly Eglinton]] as Stripper
* [[Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]] (uncredited)
* [[Ronald D. Moore]] as Man at news stand (uncredited)

== References ==

<div style="font-size: 85%;"><references /></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

Virtual being

2009-04-26T18:58:10Z

Walabio: Redirect to virtual beings

#REDIRECT [[virtual beings]]

Angel

2009-04-26T18:55:22Z

Walabio: redirect to virtual beings

#REDIRECT [[virtual beings]]

Talk:Daybreak, Part II/Archive 1

2009-04-26T18:48:50Z

Walabio: The paerallel evolution is all the fault of those darned Angels.

== Move ==
Why move this? The way I understand this, this is still episode 20, but it will be lengthened to actually be 3 episodes long. So in a away there are 21/22 episodes even, and not 19. However, [http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/06/battlestars-fin.html This] says that the season will be 11 hours and not 12, but that doesn't mean that we need to get rid of episode 19 already. Especially given that the finale will probably air in at least 2 parts. So it makes some sense to have separate episodes guides for two airings. By production numbers this would be one episode, but split apart by airdate numbers. Maybe we should wait for some further clarification. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:It could be split up into 3 parts in reruns. I think it would be easier to start with a single article and then split as necessary after it airs. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 07:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::If Sci Fi is gonna pull a Miniseries and air this thing in two parts, we should pull a Miniseries too and have [[Miniseries, Night 1|separate]] [[Miniseries, Night 2|articles]]. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:08, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:::Which we can do after we know where the break point is. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 09:25, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

There's no reason to split the article at this time. We won't know how things will be aired until they're actually aired. All we know for now is that the finale's been extended... that's it. Creating two or three sections based on something we have absolutely very little information on is just... ill-advised. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 13:14, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
:The proposal wasn't a split, but a merge with 419 I think (the article exists. It just isn't linked to, because it's an empty skeleton). But the result is the same. The way I understand it, 419+420 will be the finale then, with both episodes running 3 hours together (incl. ads I guess). We'll see. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:02, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
::Ah, ok. Sounded like it would be a split, with at least one additional article, seeing as each article would cover an hour. Anyway, we don't have enough information to be certain; it's still really all up in the air, and they have now until doomsday to figure out how to release the thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:19, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

==Title==
''Daybreak, Part 2'' (and ''Part 3'') [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/09/battlestar-galactica-cruise-book.html according to producer Mark Verheiden].--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 19:34, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Can we PLEASE change the title of the page to Part II & Part III -- It is being sold on iTunes, Amazon, etc. and two completely different episodes and this actually screwed me up immensely because I ended up reading spoilers for Part 3 before I started watching it. Yes, this is how it aired, but it is not how it is being archived. -- [[User:Namtastic|Namtastic]] 13:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Analysis==
"Ronald D. Moore appears in a cameo as the man holding a National Geographic magazine in New York City. "

I think there is much more to it. Ronald D. Moore is appearing as himself reading that article because his knowledge of "Eve" influenced the series. In other words, the series is a result of the events depicted in the series. With that scene, Battlestar Galactica becomes part of Battlestar Galactica.

:This is impossibel since as of 2009 mitochondrial Eve's remains haven't been found yet, this scene is set in the future, after the series ended.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:02, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::Checkout http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve. First articals apearred in 2003 ;)

It's not the same thing: we've known about mitochondrial Eve since before the series started, but her actual remains have not been found, there were never any bones of her found up to this day.
It's possible that Moore knowing about Eve's existence may have influenced the show, but he has never read an NGC article about the finding of her remains, simply because those remains haven't been found and thus never made their way into an NGC article.
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:38, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

==Notes==

I recognised it immediately when watching the episode (and it's already on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daybreak_(Battlestar_Galactica)#Outside_references ), the "Kodiak" spacecraft from Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun can be seen among the fleet during this episode.

==(Un)answered questions)==

The following Ron Moore interview clears up some misunderstandings about the show: http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html

1) Kara Thrace's father was NOT the lost cylon Daniel.

2) The Missiles Racetrack's Raptor (accidentally) fires at the cylon colony were nukes that severely damaged the colony and made it fall from its stable orbit into the singularity (black hole) so the colony has been utterly destroyed.

3) The Earth which is discovered in this episode is not the same planet that was discovered in "Revelations." The Earth of "Revelations" was not the planet we now live on, but our Earth was named after it.

There are still a bunch of unanswered questions:

1) What is the nature of the divine power (although this was probably intentionally left unanswered.)

2) Who were the Lords of Kobol and what happened to that world?

3) How did the colonials get from Kobol to the colonies and if they were technologically advanced, how did they loose all knowledge of Kobol, save for some religious texts?

4) What happened to those who nuked the old Earth 2000 years ago, some of these victors would have survived, but they re never seen or heard from.

5) Why didn't Cavil and his cylons try to re-invent resurrection themselves as the technology wasn't that far ahead of them (it was re-invented by the final five on old-Earth in a civilization that hadn't even invented jump drives.)

6) How could the resurrection hub control all resurrection ships while there was never any mention of FTL-communication on the show and why wasn't the resurrection hub integrated into the colony rather than floating around in deep space, vulnerable and guarded by only 2 baseships.

7) Was the colony really the place where all cylons lived, was their civilization so small (and clearly no match for the colonial military before the holocaust) and are there no baseships left out there that still have cylons aboard who want to exact their revenge on humanity? They may die out like the article suggests, but there's nothing stopping them from taking Earth with them (provided they find it within their lifetime.)

8) What happened to the other rebel cylons? Was it just the 3 baseships that rebelled, and if not, where are the other 2's, 6's and 8's?

9) How did Lee get everyone to agree to give up technology (even medical)?

10) Had it not made more sense to build new cities on Earth and rebuild the advanced colonial civilization, when everyone understood how important equal treatment of cylons and humans is, instead of letting Earth's humans build their own civilization thousands of years later, humans who are likely to make the same old mistakes with artificial intelligence and repeat the cycle?

11) How come no intelligent alien life has ever been encountered by colonials or cylons in their histories, but when it finally happens these aliens are identical to humans, who somehow evolved separately from the Kobol humans? Somehow this amazing coincidence being an "act of God" seems like a rather unsatisfactory answer.

12) Since all the fleet's decisions after the Ellen's reapperarance have been about breaking the cycle, is Lee afraid that by having superior technology on earth the cylons and colonials would "enslave" the native population, creating yet another cycle?

-- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

:: He doesn't actually say that about Kara. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:00, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

You're right, I've edited my post. -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 21:51, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

: I'd still like to know the origin of Kara's pristine Viper from her resurrection or how she died going into a gas giant with her corpse resting on a planet light-years away. And what the deal is with the Centurions from "Razor" and the Hybrid they deified. And while I understand his prophesy, I'd like to know why the old Hybrid didn't want Kara to lead a new civilisation to Earth. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:36, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Her being sent back with a new viper was supposed to be an act of the divine power. I think the Razor centurions were explained as regular mutineers, they saw the first hybrid as some kind of prophet because of the way it talked and wanted to protect it from being scrapped. Seeing as how Kara was largely responsible for the end of Cylon civilization, except the few centurions that are still left, this explains why '''CYLON''" hybrids call her the harbinger of death (it was never stated she was the harbinger of death for humanity.) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 20:48, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Gully, as for question four the Thirteenth Tribe's Earth got nuked by their Centurions. From the surface, not from space. M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction). The Final Five secretly built a ship and rebuilt resurrection (Which the 13th Tribe hadn't needed since first achieving reproduction on Kobol). That was how they escaped. -- [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 04:24, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: Alright, but being centurions the radiation wouldn't really hurt them, they could easily have created their own civilization after the dust settled (a bit like the machines in the "Terminator".) -- [[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:47, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:: Machines can be disabled by radiation, and the impacts themselves would have destroyed the Centurions. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

From the article: “Since the notes of All Along the Watchtower lead to Earth, do they still serve a purpose on Earth?” answer: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchmen_(film) yes]. -- [[User:LaloMartins|LaloMartins]] 12:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Regarding point six, in [[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]], it was stated that, when the [[Resurrection Hub]] jumps, it transmits its' new location to the [[Hybrid]]s, so FTL communication technology definitely exists. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:13, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Adding a question on, the CGI Raptor launched ''16'' missiles, why were only 8 shown after the launch scene?--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 06:51, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

==== What Precisely Killed [[Margaret Edmondson|Racetrack]] and [[Hamish McCall|Skulls]]? ====

The Marines in the rear of the cabin were killed by explosive decompression and vacuum exposure, but Racetrack and Skulls were in sealed pressure suits. I don't recall seeing suit damage in that quick shot of Margaret's hand falling on the missile-launch button. Did the one penetrating rock cause invisible crushing injuries to both of them? It didn't look big enough to hit both of them square on. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 08:59, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:Skulls whas hit in his face or chest by the rock and there was a small hole in Racetrack's helmet when her hand fell on the button.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

==== [[Delphi]] ====

In the episode "[[Downloaded]]" the cylons were rebuilding the Caprican city of [[Delphi]] and living in it. Was this effort completely abandoned when the Cylons decided to occupy [[New Caprica]]? Or has the effort to recover [[Caprica_(RDM)|Caprica]] continued all this time and is it still occupied? Are there still a substantial number of human-Cylons living on Caprica? Will it become like first Earth before their holocaust, an entirely Cylon-populated society? Are any humans stragglers left alive on either Caprica or New Caprica? -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 09:33, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

:They likely did leave the colonies after [[Downloaded]], there may still be some baseships out there, but the cylons on them are aging and cannot procreate. Even if they found Earth within their lifetimes a handful of basestars probably don't have enough nukes to obliterate the Earth's surface, that is assuming they'll actually know humans are living on Earth: it's pretty hard to find a stone age culture or neolithic society from space, even when you're actively looking for them (sure the colonials found one tribe, but in order to kill all humans with a limited number of nukes you'd have to know the positions of every tribe on Earth.)
There may be human survivors left on the colonies but it's unlikely: sure, they may have survived the nukes and the radiation, but the cylons actively hunted them down, probably to populations too small to repopulate the planets.--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 00:13, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== The Angels Make Life In This Galaxy Boringly Homogenous. ==

I slept on this, but my original impression after watching Daybreak Park # 2 is that these Angels make things boring:

They create pidgins, dogs, cats, foxes, people, oranges, tuna, et cetera. I would not be surprised if the Angels dropped a big rock on the dinosaurs just so they can have a clean slate for creating rats.

Once they create people, they make the people invent pianos, worship Zeus, Yahweh, Thor, et cetera. They make the people play “All Along The Watchtower”. They see to it that the people create Cylons.

We are not descended from apes, but from # 8s — a little wordplay because 8 and ape sound similar. the mitochondrial DNA of the # 8s is so similar to that of Homo '' neanderthalensis '' that we apparently have a common ancestor, Homo '' heidelbergensis '' half a million years ago even though that is impossible.

If we explore the Galaxy, will only find humans and cylons. ¿What is the point? ¿Why bother exploring?

Arthur C. Clarke in '' 2001 '' had a similar idea of lonely aliens helping intelligent life evolve, but the beings did not care about the final form. In other words, diversity is the rule in '' 2001. ''

We still do not know the nature of these Angels other than that Starbuck seems to be one of them

I do not know how this fits into the article, but it fits into the article somehow. I figure that I should but this on the talkpages for '' Virtual Beings '' and '' Daybreak # 2. ''

----
From Act 10 section of article: "(This is in the year 1987 AD.)" How can it be 1987 when the flat panel TV clearly showed MSNBC logo at the bottom? MSNBC was created in 1996.--[[User:Steven512|Steven512]] 14:43, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

:Yes, the robots you see in this scene were also developed after 1987 and as far as I know the remains of mitochondrial Eve have never been found.
In 1987 it was discovered that there had been a mitochondrial Eve, this was based on DNA-research among modern humans, her actual remains have not been found to this day so the scene takes place in the near future (it could even be tomorrow), not in 1987!
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:58, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

== Hera's Mate = Boxey? ==

From the notes section

''On the second Earth Hera's mate that produced children was most likely human. Saul Tigh and the Leobens would be too old for her. While it was fairly common in ancient times for the men to be far older than their brides (particularly with royalty), for example with the female being as young as 12 and and the male being say 60 to take an extreme, Colonial mores, which are much like our own in real life, would forbid the Leobens from sexual congress with Hera when she reach the accepted reproductive age. On the other hand there were many human children about her age and slightly older in the Fleet. She could had also had children with a human child unborn at the time of the landing on Second Earth perhaps within five years to ten years of her age. It is possible that other hybrid children could had been born after the landing given that the Twos, Sixes, and Eights joined the humans. And it is possible that pure Cylon children could had been born to the age compatible Sixes, Eights, and Leobens but as noted in the series it is difficult if not impossible for a pure Cylon child to come to term making any pool of pure Cylon children that were successfully born very small. Cylon-Human mating with a human male with a Six or a Sharon is very possible with the example of Hera herself an significantly more likely than with a Cylon-Cylon birth, but it is harder than with human-human pairings making any pool of those pairing while much more likely and larger than Cylon-Cylon offspring, still quite small number compared to pure human offspring. Therefore Hera's offspring is most likely with a human. A more remote possibility is with another Cylon-human hybrid. Her producing children with a pure Cylon offspring is the least likely since pure Cylons are the least likely to exist.''

Boxey could be Hera's mate. It would make sense.

Boxey as Y-chromosomal Adam? Or would that be "Adama"? heh--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: The chromosomal Adam live tens of thousands of years after the Mitochondrial Eve.

: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 17:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
::Walabio is right and why would it be more likely for Hera to end up with Boxey instead of with one of the other hundreds of children from the fleet?
--[[User:Gully|Gully]] 18:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

::The ''Y-chromosomal Adam'' reference was to make the pun based on Boxey being Apollo's adopted son in TOS :). As for why it would make sense, it be for no other reason that it would give the RDM version of the character some (belated) importance, which he lacked through the run of the show. Why have her end up with some random kid from the fleet than have her end up with a character who had some level of development? Plus, look at it this way, the original intent according to some references on this site say that the plan was to make Boxey, Tyrol, and Sharon (Boomer) a makeshift family. Having him end up with Hera accomplishes part of that intent as he'd be related to one version of Sharon (Athena)--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 18:31, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It is a moot point. He had NO relevant to BSG any more since they dropped him as a character. If they didn't drop him as a character I think the perfect end would had been making him that guy that was killed in the mutiny, you know the one that acted as a runner between CIC and some damaged area of the ship to get a damage report for Adama at the near the beginning of the mutiny? He was then later killed by Gaeta's trigger happy Marines when he pushed Adama to the deck, saving his life. That would had been a good way for Boxey to go. He would had been the right age (17) and would had gave his character an ultimate purpose, to save Adama when the time came.
::: Of course it is possible for Boxey and Hera to had gotten together. He would had been 14 years old when Hera was born but with Hera say 20 years old Boxey would had been 34, a reasonable age difference allowable in both our and Colonial Society. And further it would had been another of the shows many ironies and "what goes around, comes around" themes: Boxey, who was taken in by Boomer, an Eight as a quasi foster son, later marries the daughter of Athena, an Eight, who was stolen and then given back by Boomer who was then killed Athena. Imagine all the physiological turmoil that could case Boxey. This show thrived on that sort of thing. LOL [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 23:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

== Number Three ==

Couldn't they have sent a Raptor or an FTL-capable ship to find Number Three and bring her to the New Earth with them? It would have been the humane thing to do. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 15:53, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

: She was left on a dead-to-humans world, where the only plant life we saw were grasses or other non-edibles, with a background radiation count above the safe level beyond short exposure: even the water was contaminated. She probably died within a few weeks of being left behind. -- [[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 12:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:: Good point. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:59, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:::It was established by Athena in [[The Passage]] that Cylons are far more resistant to radiation than humans are. In fact they bombed [[Caprica]] and the other Colonies with high yield nuclear weapons '''outside''' the cities so they could kill the humans but keep the buildings and infrastructure intact. We saw them settling in [[Caprica City]] in "[[Downloaded]]" even reopening the coffee shops, so radiation is of no problem to them (except for the rare special kind of Nebula radiation at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]) So it is possible for [[D'Anna Biers]] to survive the radiation of Earth One and even drink the rain water. Food on the other hand would be a problem and I saw no evidence of surviving animal life, and this all assumes that she wanted to survive, which I don't think she would due to staying on the radioactive rock in the first place. Still, it would had been a nice thing to try to find her. Maybe a miracle would had happened LOL. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 00:05, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

== "No Further Significant Revelations..."==

I think this statement in the advisory tag is premature. There's still "The Plan", as well as, in theory, the Caprica series, both of which might provide further revelations with regards to Daybreak and the series itself. Certainly The Plan, anyway. Not to mention the presumed deleted scenes that will be on the DVD and there's a rumor Daybreak will be extended for the DVD as well. There's still a chance for some issues to be resolved. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 13:42, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:That's interesting. I don't expect The Plan to reveal much of anything about what Kara became or who the Virtual beings were, but Caprica might explore it given the establishment that they appear at times when the cycle of time (machine on human violence) begins. Caprica might provide the answers to the lingering questions if for nothing more than to give fans of BSG a reason to watch. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::Let's hope so, though I don't expect they will reveal much more about the divine powers or the angels, ever. It would take away the mystery and the sense that there is something bigger than us (humans and cylons), now we are left wondering if the divine power is a God, or just a very advanced race (maybe the perpetrators (or their descendents) of the first holocaust during the first cycle are feeling guilty) and I think that's how Ron Moore intended it to be. However, ''Caprica'' may reveal more about colonial history: what happened to Kobol, how did humans move from Kobol to the colonies, why was that history almost completely forgotten (was there a colonial dark age) and who or what were the Lords of Kobol? --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:34, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:::I'm sure that many people would agree, or at least theorize, that the virtual beings are Moore's version of the beings of light from the Ship of Lights, especially considering what happened to Kara, which I've seen (here or elsewhere, I forget) compared to what happened to the Starbuck from the original series on the last episode of Galactica 80. I think that the reason why Moore must have decided to leave things vague is that he didn't want to "cheapen it" by introducing something like the Ship of Lights into his show, which was more realistic than the original version. Now that I think about it, when Baltar tells Six that "it" doesn't like to be called God, it could be that "it" is the Ship of Lights or whatever version of it that exist in this version of the story. It would be cool if there was more exploration of this in Caprica, as well as further exploration of the "jealous God" from Kobol (which I'm sure we'll hear more of due to this headmistress in Caprica who doesn't believe in the Lords of Kobol) and all the other lingering questions from the show. In fact, given that religion is an important aspect of Caprica as it was in BSG (RDM) I wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of this down the line. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 17:49, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::::Hi, guys. Here's my two cents, since I'm the Senior Chief that added the special notice. "No further significant revelations" means "the story is generally over." BSG isn't Star Trek, guys. RDM has stated that there are some elements of the story that he wouldn't resolve, but that he would resolve the important stuff. Is that etched in stone somewhere? No. I'm sure ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' may open a few new questions. But until that series debuts, what we have is what we have. Battlestar Wiki allows some speculation because we're talking about a work of fiction. But to speculate further when no further answers are likely and people are making what's otherwise original research--that's [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]], and it's not allowed on Battlestar Wiki. For the purposes of this episode summary because its so long (and must be), we have to keep focus and not overload the article. Episode summaries are the only articles where questions can be asked (provided they don't go out of control) but many questions will not be answered. As soon as the noise dies down we can move some pressing questions to [[BW:OC|our special Q&A page answered by BSG co-producer Bradley Thompson]]. In my opinion, the nature of the Virtual Beings and Kara have been answered as far as RDM wanted to do. They are beings of divine source--and folks, religion is one thing that RDM loved to keep close to his chest to add to the BSG mystique. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:53, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::::: I'm not saying that The Plan is going to answer all the unanswered questions, etc. However The Plan has been acknowledged as the coda for this series, and just as important to it as Razor was. However the special notice as I saw it wasn't just in reference to Daybreak, but to the Wiki in general, and that's where I think it's premature. In terms of Daybreak itself, I agree that any additional revelations in The Plan will likely be minor and there are unlikely to be any in Caprica at all relating to that particular episode. But I think questions that come to mind are still worth asking with regards to characters that could be addressed in The Plan. And unless someone has already seen The Plan, or RDM has explicitly stated otherwise, we can't really predict which characters may or may not be addressed. Something that might be interesting once The Plan airs and is analysed is to go through the episode articles and compile the outstanding questions that the series has left unanswered. I think there will be fewer than some think, with the remainder being just enough to put this series into the same league as "The Prisoner" in that people will still be arguing over "what does it mean" 40 years from now. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== How did the fleet reach Earth 2 / New Earth? ==
As far as I understood it before Galactica departed for the Colony they agreed to a rendezvous location with the fleet. But when jumping away from the colony Starbuck punched in the numbers of the song and Galactica jumped for its last time. But when it reappeared over New Earth the fleet also jumped right in. How did they get the coordinates (a raptor jumping to the rendezvous location?)? But how did they get them so fast? [[User:DJ Doena|DJ Doena]] 14:02, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:Galactica still had a few raptors left (we saw 7 of them landed on Earth) and 12 hours passed between the shot of Galactica jumping near the Moon and the rest of the fleet showing up, nothing fishy going on there. --[[User:Gully|Gully]] 15:30, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::The key here was time pressure. Someone had the coordinates, but with the chaos of getting sucked into a black hole, no one could give them to Kara in time before ''Galactica's'' final jump. When all was stable, someone remembered/recalled the Fleet's coordinates, sent a Raptor, and all was good. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:You missed the letters onscreen spelling "Twelve Hours Later". -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Consolidation change ==

Hey everyone! I just wanted to take a moment to explain the format and consolidation change for Act I. This change is a test for updating the event summary because:

*Each detail does not require a bullet.
*Having bullets for every event make it look redundant.

*However, having bullets between major events makes the summary flow a little better. This was the approach I used when summarizing [[Daybreak, Part I]]. It gives each scene a sense of distinction, like this example.

Are there any other opinions regarding this proposed change? If it's OK, I can start work on the other acts. -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 20:52, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:Given the massive data, it's okay to condense a few points. But keep it to maybe three or four lines condensed. Any larger and it's hard to follow. Try to keep it looking like the other episode guides as much as possible for consistency. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:57, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
::Thanks for the working guideline. As of this writing, Act I & II are done, and starting on the rest. Hope you guys like it! -- [[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 07:46, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

==The robot at the end==
I corrected an addition in Story Notes that suggested the female robot at the very end is the one that was unveiled only a few days before the broadcast. That would have been very cool, but it's actually the "Actroid" which was unveiled 4 years ago. Interestingly I found Actroid, a 4-year-old technology, to be more lifelike than the one unveiled last week... [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 02:06, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

==The model on the cover of "Sports Limited"==
Here's a challenge for those who watched this on HD sets... I've heard it suggested that the model on the cover of "Sports Limited" (the SI-like magazine seen on the newsstand) might actually be Tricia Helfer. I can't tell at all on the computer-screen I'm using, but it might be a neat bit of trivia (not to mention it would open a line of speculation as to whether the Sixes have survived to the present day) if it's true. [[User:23skidoo|23skidoo]] 16:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

== Questions Section ==

I can never be more blunt than I tried to be before on these last two guides. The questions sections follow strict rules [[Battlestar_Wiki:Standards_and_Conventions/Episode_Guides#Questions_Section]] is the policy on this section. I am going to again clear out the questions section with the bad stuff. Users who do not follow our polices on the [[BW:SAC]] will be warned and if after being warned by doing it again, will be banned. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 02:56, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

== Lie-dector test "question" ==

In the Questions section, somebody asked:'' "During the lie detector test in the flashback scene of William Adama's attempt to secure a civilian job, why did the interrogator ask him if he was a Cylon?"''

This was a control question in order to get a baseline from which to compare the real questions for deception. Such as if a polygraph-operator were to ask "Are you a dinosaur?" This fact was made immediately clear in the dialogue. This was in no way left unclear. It's not a mystery. It's not even a debate.

I've deleted it.

== What year is it "question" ==

Another rediculous addition to the Questions section: ''"What year is it on Earth during the final scene?"''

That too was answered by the title: "150,000 Years Later". Go back 150,000 years from 2009 AD, and you have the answer: 148000 B.C.E.

I've deleted the question.

== Regarding my edits to Questions Section ==

I've removed these three questions:

* Why so many zeros in the Model 0005?
* Does either Battlestar Galactica TV series exist in some form on the new Earth?
* Who or what is God exactly?

The first two are completely and utterly ridiculous and do not have any merit as questions. They will never be answered, and it's simply beneath the scope of what questions should be in that section in the first place.

The third question has been pretty much answered in the series by Baltar, who is essentially the mouthpiece of the writers coda on that subject. In the universe of BSG, God is a force of nature who doesn't like the name "God." -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:57, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

== Galactica breaking her back ==

Just noticed, Galactica made her final jump with her flight pods out, maybe thats what caused the damage? I mean the extra forces exerted on the ship because of the higher amount of ship to effect. It makes sense that Galactica jumping without her pods retracted would place extraordinary amount of stress on the ship. Every other time even when dropping through the atmosphere at New Caprica the Galactica always had her pods retracted fro a jump.
--[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 08:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

:That could very well have been a contributing factor, but there are many other factors in play, too, namely
:*her age,
:*compromises made during construction,
:*accumulated stresses and fractures from past battle damage and the sheer number of jumps,
:*lack of proper dock repair and maintenance,
:*her last sustained pounding at close-range, and ramming into the Colony.
:And consider that Adama and Tigh were told that she only had a few more jumps in her before she suffers structural damage. The old girl was already falling apart.-- [[User:Fredmdbud|Fredmdbud]] 13:24, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

I remember that one of the specialists told Adama that Galactica had 5 jumps left max, but nevermind it I just took notice of it and wanted to see what everyone else thought of it. EDIT: Also noticed that Glactica's flight pods went up and down of their own accord after the jump, maybe thats why they retract the pods? I think the Mercuries could non-retract jump because of the way their support struts are placed. By the looks of it the movement of the pods was absolutely massive and that kind of stress would most certainly break Galactica's back no matter what sort of structural damage she had before. --[[User:CHr0n0sPh3r3|CHr0n0sPh3r3]] 07:12, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

==Cylon Longevity==

According to [[No Exit]], Ellen and the others created Cavil in the image of her father, so it stands to reason that, 40 years prior to the fall of the colonies, he was already a man in his 70'(s?) and in fact had not aged in those four decades. It can be assumed that the same holds true for the other six humanoid cylons, all of which were considerably younger than him.

The point here is, if humaoid Cylons don't age then the surviving Cylons who didn't make it to Earth wouldn't have died out as it has been speculated, be it from old age or lack of mates to reproduce with. Their longevity could surpass human longevity and they could be alive at the end of the series.

Furthermore there's the issue of boxing. They could have boxed themselves as a form of suspended animation to ensure their survival and programmed Guardian Centurions to watch over them.

All in all, there are many number of ways in which the humanoid Cylons that didn't make it to Earth could have survived. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 20:38, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit: Now that I think about it, what about the Cylons who did make it to Earth? If they don't age, how did they die out? --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 00:33, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

: Perhaps aging was only a non-issue when they had resurrection tech. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:34, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

== Removed questions ==

I've removed the following questions:
* Who were/are the Lords of Kobol?
** Good question, but not one with any connection to this episode.
* What year is the present day?
** I'm not sure what this is asking. We are shown that the Colonial's present is 150 000 years before our own.
* Who is the dying leader? Laura Roslin? Galactica? Starbuck?
** The narrative gives us many explicit statements that it is Roslin, and she fits the role perfectly, making it unnecessary to try and jam someone else into the position. Doing so without clear indications from the show is speculation.
* What’s the deal with Kara Thrace?
** She was sent back by "God" as an angel to guide the people to the new Earth. Covered fairly conclusively, if not explicitly.
* What is the true nature of the Head People?
** They were angels, as was stated many times.
* Who or what is guiding events?
** Something akin to "God", though it doesn't like to be called that. I think this is covered sufficiently in the earlier question about why "God" is guiding events.
* Is Virtual Baltar really the archangel Gabriel? If not, is Virtual Leobon? (Assuming they're not actually the same being, that is.)
** Theory without basis in the show.
--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 23:41, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

== Parallel evolution ==

It is implausible scientifically that Earth humans and Colonials just happened to evolve in parallel without outside influence (possibly from the head beings). Therefore, I wouldn't state it as fact that they're alien to each other -- there is no support for that in the show. The facts are that they can mate and that the characters are surprised about humans existing on Earth, but I wouldn't go as far as drawing conclusions about the origins of Colonials and humans. -- [[User:Graf Iblis|Graf Iblis]] 19:11, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

:It could be that in the Galactica universe humans are the standard of life across the universe, which is why they never encountered other life forms during their travels. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 14:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:And yet no one remarks about the fact that New Caprica and the Algae planet's trees look like Earth trees. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

:: I covered this on this very talkpage [[#The_Angels_Make_Life_In_This_Galaxy_Boringly_Homogenous. | here. ]] Basically, the [[Angel]]s guide evolution subtly by such means as dropping huge asteroids on the dinosaurs so that they can create dodos in their place. Because of these [[Angel]]s life is the same everywhere right down to identical pianofortes playing [[the Music | All Along The Watchtower. ]]

:: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 18:48, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Walabio

2009-04-26T00:33:07Z

Walabio: ¡Thanks for deleting the file!

== Welcome to Battlestar Wiki! ==
Welcome to the Wiki, Walabio. Tell us about yourself on [[User:Walabio|your user page]]. We have a [[Template:User Data|template]] that lets you put some information about yourself in a nice-looking box.

Battlestar Wiki is an encyclopedia on '''officially-licensed stories, aired episodes, and other products of the ''Battlestar'' universes.''' Make sure that your contributions fit [[Battlestar Wiki:What is Battlestar Wiki|Battlestar Wiki's purpose]], avoiding [[BW:NOT|what we aren't]].

Our [[BW:SAC|editing standards and conventions policies]] may differ from other wikis, especially in verb tense and voice, capitalization and the like. '''Please read this policy.''' We have [[BW:TUT|an editing tutorial]] and [[BW:MARK|wiki markup codes]] to help you.

Our policies on [[w:Original research|original research]] differ from places such as Wikipedia. We allow [[BW:CJ#Derived Content|some research based on aired episode content]], but don't allow [[BW:FANW|speculation that isn't supported from episode events]]. Battlestar Wiki does '''not''' allow [[fan fiction]] articles.

Battlestar Wiki's [[Battlestar Wiki:Project List|many projects]] help improve our content. Are you an [[Original Series]] fan? Help out in the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|Original Series Article Project]]. [[Battlestar Wiki:Translation Project|Non-English versions of Battlestar Wiki]] also need contributors, and helpers for our [[BW:POD|podcast transcriptions]] are also welcome. New projects should be brought to our [[BW:TANK|Think Tank]], where we hash out large-scale ideas before implementing them.

Any questions about an article can be entered on the article's talk page. General questions about the wiki can be brought to [[Battlestar Wiki:Wikipedian Quorum|the Quorum]] or [[Battlestar Wiki:Chiefs' noticeboard|the chiefs' noticeboard]]. Please sign your posts on any talk page by simply entering four tildes (~~~~), which will be automatically replaced with your name and a time stamp.

Remember that talk pages are for questions about the article connected to that talk page, and [[BW:FORUM|aren't for long discussions about the show.]] To chat as much as you'd like about the show (or other topics), why not set up a free account on the [http://www.battlestarforum.com Battlestar Forum] bulletin board?

We look forward to your contributions to the Battlestar Wiki community!
--[[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 01:19, 25 November 2007 (CST)

==Deleted the file==

Hi there. I saw your request to delete an image on recent changes and took care of it. In the future, you may want to post such requests on the [[BW:CN|Chief's noticeboard]]; most all of us Chiefs have that on a watch list, and that will get you faster resolution. Thanks, and greetings from another Brown Coat! [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 18:19, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

: That was nice of you. I take it that you like Heinlein:

: Heinlein was a man with an obsession with mutilated genitals (he ranted about the præpuceless penis of Lazarus Long in book after book), subscribed to the philosophy “¡I have mine, screw everyone else!”, but is one of the best authors ever. I suppose that the moral of the story is that one does not have to be crazy to be a genius, but it helps. I too love his books.

: The last of the big 3 from the Golden Age of Science-Fiction; Heinlein, Clarke, and Asimov; Clarke, just died. It is such a shame.

: It is nice to meet another Brown Coat who appreciates great literature too.

: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 00:33, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Serenity

2009-04-25T09:58:44Z

Walabio: /* I accidently added a file which someone should probably delete. */ new section

{{Template:Archive-bot
|maxarchivesize = 32K
|counter = 2
|algo = old(30d)
|archive = User talk:Serenity/Archive%(counter)d
}}
{{ArchiveTOC}}

== Military Ranks ==

I would have messaged you before now but I only just now figured out how to use the talk function.

I don't appreciate you just blanket undoing all of my changes which is why I simply remade them. This is a wiki so I fully expect my revisions to be further revised to some degree, but I think it's incredibly disrespectful to just undo them in their entirety. In addition many of my changes were clerical (changing lower case letters to capitals for example) and undoing those to me makes no sense.

Second, the reason I keep removing the Petty Officer Second Class/Master Sergeant and Rear Admiral ranks has nothing to do with them not being on Ron Moore's list. It has to do with the fact that unlike other ranks like Rear Admiral, which although not mentioned on Ron Moore's list, have been definitively established on screen; those two ranks have not been established by any authority for the show onscreen or otherwise. In addition I thought we abandoned trying to match it with the U.S. Rank system when we struck that part of the chart. I think we should limit the ranks we list to those that have been definitively established, especially given how complex the rank structure is getting.

Third I believe it's valid to offer possible explanations for rank insignias that haven't been shown. I believe you yourself offered a great deal of speculation on the page dealing with Valkyrie, and if not at least supported them when I tried to edit them to support different theories; so I don't see how it can be ok to speculate on one page but not on another as long as the speculation is reasonably supported.

If you have a problem with something I put up let's discuss it rather than engaging in an edit war, such tactics are completely counterproductive and a waste of both of our time. {{unsigned|Grandmaester314}}

: The ranking system is about to become even more complex. However, I've had to revert your edits and lock the page temporarily, since I really don't want an edit war to go on—plus Serenity's are the closest to the actual stuff used on the show, as opposed to your edits. (As a consultant / assistant researcher on the [http://www.battlestarprops.com Battlestar Galactica Props and Costumes] auctions run by PropWorx and Unviersal, I have access to behind-the-scenes documentation regarding the rank pins used in the show. I'll add the missing ranks and their corresponding pins here in a few weeks or so, since it's not a high priority for me at this moment.)

: Also, given Serenity's status as an administrator and the fact that he can edit the page even if it's locked, I'll ask that Serenity not edit the ranks page in question until it's been unlocked again.

: Don't take this action personally. It's just that none of us should be wasting our time editing the page until I get the chance to add what needs to be added there. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 04:41, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

:*As for the style edits. Ranks are not capitalized unless they're used as titles, followed by a name. That's what other pages here do, or should at least. It's the standard that Wikipedia uses (although a bit inconsistently) and it's what's used in the real world generally; for example [http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/111201.htm here] or the official [http://www.navy.mil/tools/view_styleguide_all.asp Navy style guide]. That's why I changed that. Yes, the ranks are capitalized in the table, but that's a bit different from prose.
:*I reverted some of the additions to the names, because some of them were superfluous. It's just supposed to be a few examples, not an exhaustive list of all officers. So I removed Shaw as lieutenant for example. And the stuff about "Razor Part 2" and such doesn't make much sense. There aren't any parts to the movie.
:*I initially removed the rank insignia speculation because I thought it went on for far too long for a mere footnote and drew too much comparisons to real-world examples. Then I realized that there is merit to it and re-added it in a condensed form, that gets the main point across. See footnotes #11 and #12. It's still there.
:*As for the real-world rank comparison. That has been discussed at some length on the talk page, and while arguments can be made for both, it was generally felt that it makes most sense to have a commander to be the same as a captain. But getting rid of the comparison at all is the best course of action, considering the trouble it caused.
:*As for the speculative ranks. They've been there for maybe two years and nobody complained about it before. The footnotes make it clear that they haven't been established on screen, so they can easily be ignored if someone prefers that. I think there are more arguments to include them than there are against them (there is just no reason to not have them, when the rest of the NCO list follows the usual structure). In any case, this is probably a moot point with Joe having something of a complete list. In general, this is an article that lends itself to some deduction. Assuming that there is a rank missing or how some insignia might look can be well-grounded reasoning. That's a bit different from just wildly guessing about the purpose of a certain ship type for example.
:*I realize that this has been a sad edit war and I didn't like it, but we are both to blame. I pointed out the capitalization issue in the edit summary for example. We could also have discussed this on talk pages earlier instead of just reverting back and forth. I left a note on your talk page about something else and should have written another when this went out of hand, but I wasn't sure if you'd read it. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:33, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

First, thanks for the response. Second, I have several points I'd like to make, I apologize in advance if this gets rather lengthy.

In response to the recent unpleasantness:
*I did read your initial message but as I indicated to Joe, until yesterday, I couldn't figure out how to respond.
*I realize I have a tendency to get overly wordy, its a function of my vocabulary and writing style which definitely has something of a flourish to it, however since I couldn't figure out how to consolidate my comments any further than I already had, I figured I'd post it and let someone else figure out how to consolidate them.
*I agree with you and Joe that it is counterproductive to keep revising this page when he will shortly have a bunch of new, and more definitive information.
*I know we got off on the wrong foot but I hope we can change that, you seem to be one of the people most interested in this topic, which to me is perhaps the most interesting one, and I think we could have some very productive discussions.

I'd also like to make some BSG related comments for you to think about:
*Assuming that Joe doesn't provide further clarification on the Lt. Colonel issue I think it's something that should still be discussed further before a final conclusion is made as to it's exact role. I have a very different opinion on it than you seem to. I think it may not be a rank at all.
**Credits have been known to be mislisted before and their have been instances where ranks have been listed that either conflicted with their insignia (such as Agathon wearing a full lieutenant's chevrons but claiming to be a junior lieutenant), or were never established in the ranks structure (such as the multiple classes of specialist I've heard referred to).
**Officers of different ranks have worn it.
**The insignia doesn't follow any kind of trend like all the other ranks do which would place it in a specific rank catagory.
***The enlisted ranks all have standard diamond shapes with silver borders and green inlay, junior officers all have the same general diamond shape and silver border that enlisted ranks do but have gold inlay, and the other senior officers all have a progression based on a foundation of the full colonel design which is a gold diamond with an extended tapered edge on the bottom and a raised red phoenix logo in the center.
***This insignia has charactoristics from all these classes and others that are unique to it. It shares the same basic diamond shape and raised border as the enlisted and junior officer ranks. On the other hand it shares it's completely gold color and phoenix logo with the senior officer ranks. However, unlike the enlisted and junior officer ranks which have a raised silver border, it's raised border is the same gold as the rest of it, as is the raised diamond in the center (similar raised designs in the enlisted ranks are the same silver as the border in contrast to the green inlay). At the same time it also diverges from the senior officer ranks because its diamond shape doesn't share the same evolving design as the other senior officers and also unlike the other senior officers its phoenix is engraved and unpainted as opposed to raised and red colored.
**For these reasons I think this device is designed to indicate someone granted a special role. In Dualla's case it might have been used to indicate her XO status which wouldn't be at all apparent from her actual rank since under normal circumstances, a lieutenant junior grade would never be XO of a battlestar. Now as to why Fisk wore it, I can only speculate, perhaps he wasn't supposed to be a permanent member of the crew but was only on board at the time of the attacks because he had some role in Pegasus' overhaul.
*Unless Joe is able to definitively place him in the rank structure, I think Marine Lieutenant Burrell should be removed from the list of examples on the ranks chart since we can't definitively place his rank in the overall rank structure. Besides as Joe pointed out (and I hadn't really realized), the list isn't intended to be exhaustive. While I understand the desire to have him on the list since he is the only Marine officer we have seen, I think we shouldn't place him on the list until we now for sure where he goes.
*Given a comment from Joe I know ascede to the fact that their may well be a Senior Chief Petty Officer Rank (in fact it would resolve a major issue for me namely, why use the rank of gunnery sergeant when you don't use master sergeant?), at least enough for me to feel ok including it in the list. However given the fact that Cally was promoted directly from Specialist to PO2 I believe it's safe to conclude two things: First, there is no P.O. Third Class. Second, given that the rank of Corporal has been established and would normally be equivalent to PO3, there is indeed no Lance Corporal rank and Corporal is just shifted down one and slotted in next to Specialist. I believe almost as strongly that their is no Vice Admiral rank for a number of reasons. In addition to the fact that it has never even been mentioned, the most notable reason is that if you take a look at the uniform fringe colors for Admiral and Rear Admiral, there doesn't seem to be room for an intermediate rank because the next logical progression from the Rear Admiral's gold over silver is the Fleet Admiral's solid gold.
*Finally, I differ in my assessment of the place of Commander in the rank structure. I believe that Commanders are more closely akin to a one-star admiral than to a Captain in the U.S. Navy. They do fulfill aspects of both roles, but given that battlestars are often dispatched on their own, that Admiral's are only assigned when their are multiple military ships in a group as opposed to unarmed support vessels, and that in reality a carrier task force usually has more than one admiral (usually a two- or three-star in overall command, and at least one one- or two-star admiral in charge of all the screening ships. I believe that equating Commander with Captain does not accurately recognize the scope of a Commander's authorities and duties or his significantly higher standing in the overall command structure. Also I think it can be expected that there are other military vessels which aren't battlestars which may at times accompany a battlestar group and I think for such smaller vessels, it would likely be Colonel or even a Major in certain circumstances who be in direct command of the specific vessel (after all the navy assigns commanding officers of different ranks to command different types of ships based on their size and purpose.

Any way I know I am probably babbling by now but I thought I'd give you some idea of some of the things I would like to discuss in the future.

I am also going to send Joe a list of things that I think are most important to clear up. I think it might be helpful for him to have some guidelines see he can target his research. These include:
*A definite equivalence table for Marine and Fleet enlisted ranks
*The real nature of the so-called "Lt. Colonel" insignia
*Whether the Marines have a different officer structure than the Fleet.
*The exact number of officer and enlisted ranks
*Whether there are any other officer ranks that haven't been introduced.

Again I apologize for the length of the message but I thought it might inspire some constructive discussion.
[[User:Grandmaester314|Grandmaester314]] 18:17, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

:*As for the commander/captain/admiral things. I see your points and I've heard them before. There are valid arguments for both points of view. So in the end, the best is to just drop it. There have been long arguments about this before that didn't really go anywhere, and in the end the rank structure is very similar but not identical to real-world examples, especially considering the ''roles'' of people. The article isn't really any better with the comparison, so good riddance :)
:*I'm usually also a bit hesitant to fully include all behind the scenes information, as it's sometimes contradicted by on-screen content (whereas Joe for example is more of an "inclusionist"). But this seems to be pretty consistent from what I've seen so far. Except that everyone wearing a beige BDUs is supposed to be a warrant officer as Joe noted on the article's talk page. For example Sergeant Hadrian and a couple of pretty young crewmen also wear them and they aren't WOs. We'll see how that all turns out, but in any case, it's more logical to assume that Fisk was indeed intended to be a lieutenant colonel and promoted later, than to invent things to explain it away. That's kinda fanwanky, even if the arguments make sense. Dualla's insignia can just be chalked up as a costuming error then. Yeah, the insignia doesn't fit 100%ly, but if that's what they intended (and maybe supported by other sources), we'll have to go by it. There are similar oddities in real-life, for example with silver outranking gold in the US armed forces (e.g. gold oak leaf = major, silver = lieutenant colonel). It's just a TV show after all, and even the best ones make errors here and there.
:*Regarding Burrell. There is actually a second [[Unnamed Galactica and Pegasus crew (RDM)#Marine Lieutenant|unnamed Marine lieutenant]] in Season 4. I agree that including him in the list is a bit fishy since he doesn't necessarily line up with a Fleet lieutenant. Maybe the two can be moved up into the text, where Marine officers are briefly mentioned. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 20:40, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

== Rank Listing for Sergeant Hadrian ==

I have changed back the listing of rank on the Sergeant Hadrian page to Sergeant First Class. You made a valid point when you changed it back but I thought it should be consistent with what is on the ranks page. If this a big problem for you, you can change it back. Also, I would have left this not on the history listing for the change the way you normally do but I still can't figure out how to do that.
[[User:Grandmaester314|Grandmaester314]] 17:53, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

:It's fine now that the pages are consistent with each other. They just shouldn't contain something different as before. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:29, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

== Errors ==

The footnotes you added to [[Unnamed Cities of Caprica]] don't seem to be showing up.

*Nevermind.... they show up only when i log out.

== I accidently added a file which someone should probably delete. ==

I watched the movie Caprica and saw in a scene the [[U-87]] in just the right pose for a screengrab. I made a screengrab as is allowed under fair use, uploaded it to the wiki and licensed it [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ CC-BY Version # 3.0. ]

The problem is that in my gusto, I forgot to export it as JPEG. Not wanting to waste our bandwidth, I exported it as JPEG and uploaded the much smaller JPEG to the wiki. This just leaves the problem of the original PNG:

¿Could you please delete [[file:u-87.png | thumb]] ?

Post Scriptum:

When looking for a Chief to delete the file, I noticed that your name is Serenity. I too am a Brown Coat. Since I had no better reason to choose a Chief for asking, I ask you for that reason.

[[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 09:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Cylon History

2009-04-25T09:26:50Z

Walabio: After editing the image of U-87, I forgot to export as JPEG. I switch to the JPEG for saving bandwidth.

:''For information on the [[Original Series]] Cylons, see [[Cylons (TOS)]].''

{{RDM cylons series}}

Over 52 years prior to [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|the destruction of the Colonies]], the humans of the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] reveled in their advanced technology, from which came their creation, the Cylons, a race of sentient machines. However, over 4,000 years ago, ancient Cylons have existed on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]].

==Ancient Cylons==
Some 4,000 years prior to the events depicted in the [[Miniseries]], the [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|Thirteenth Tribe]], an early generation of humanoid Cylons that originated from [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] colonized the [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]. With them there was also a distinct model of robotic Cylon, of which only the buried helmet has been seen. Roughly 2000 years later, Earth's civilization was wiped out by nuclear war between mechanical and humanoid Cylons. There were only five known survivors, who would come to be known as the [[Final Five]]. These survivors were researchers involved in the recent rediscovery of [[resurrection (RDM)|resurrection technology]], who anticipated the attack and resurrected aboard a ship which they had prepared. They then began the approximately 2000 years long sublight journey to the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] in order to prevent the [[Cylon War]].

==First Cylons in the Twelve Colonies==
The first Cylons in the Twelve Colonies were created by [[Daniel Graystone]], a brilliant [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprican]] computer scientist <ref name="casting call">{{cite_web|url=http://www.tvsquad.com/2008/04/03/exclusive-caprica-casting-info-revealed/|title=Caprica casting info|date=Apr 3, 2008}} '''Note:''' This information is based on early reports and casting sheets, and thus subject to change.</ref>.

[[image:u-87.jpeg | thumb | The [[U-87]] is an early Cylon-Prototype ]]

{{spoiltext|Graystone's daughter [[Zoe Graystone|Zoe]] died in a suicide bombing. After learning that his daughter uploaded her personality into an online avatar before her death, Graystone decided to recreate Zoe as a robot, using technology stolen from his [[Tauron (RDM)|Tauron]] competitor, [[Tomas Vergis]] with the help of his wife [[Amanda Graystone|Amanda]] and [[Joseph Adama]], whose wife and daughter also died in the same explosion. Zoe-A, the holographic avatar, was downloaded into a robot brain, and thus became Zoe-R, the first cybernetic life-form node, or Cylon. Graystone also created a Cylon version of [[Tamara Adama]], but her father was appalled by it, and decided to repent his actions.}}
Cylons were being constructed for the purpose of performing tasks no human desired to do. The Cylons were used in hazardous work, including wars between the colonies (before the [[Articles of Colonization]], most or all colonies were sovereign states).

==The Cylon War==

Then the day came when the servants turned against their masters, and the [[Cylon War]] began. Humans responded by unifying their Colonies into a federal republic (with the Articles of Colonization) and building [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestars]] and military craft such as the one-manned [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] fighter ([[Miniseries]]) and the workhorse, multi-function craft called the [[Raptor]] to combat the Cylons ([[Razor Flashbacks]]). To date, no reason has been offered as to how or why the Cylons rebelled.

The war lasted twelve and a half years, with the Colonies, [[Battle of Tauron|such as]] [[Tauron (RDM)|Tauron]], close to a fall. However, an armistice was declared, resulting in the the Cylons' departure from the Colonial worlds in search of [[Cylon homeworld|a home]] of their own.

==The Transition==
During the Cylon War, Cylons secretly made the first steps developing [[Humanoid Cylon|new models]] that were organic in nature and essentially identical to humans. The first step in their evolution from pure machines to organic beings was known as the "[[First Hybrid|Hybrid]]." Other [[hybrid]]s were later created to control [[Basestar (RDM)|baseships]] before the experiments were abandoned ([[Razor]]).

Before the Cylons were able to develop independent humanoid models, the [[Final Five]] arrived, offering both their assistance and resurrection technology in exchange for an end to the war against the colonies.

The first of these organic models was John, later known as [[Number One]] and Brother Cavil, patterned and named after [[Ellen Tigh|Ellen]]'s father. He assisted in the development of the other seven models. John, jealous over the attention Ellen paid to Daniel, the original [[Number Seven]], contaminated the amniotic fluid in which the Number Seven copies were being grown and corrupted the model's genetic formula. The fate of Daniel prototype is unknown; Anders states simply that "Daniel died." Bitter over the limitations of his organic body and obsessed with vengeance against humanity, Cavil then killed the Final Five and boxed them, later resurrecting them with false memories and sending them to the twelve colonies. It can be inferred that he is responsible for programming the other six models to avoid thinking of the Final Five. ([[No Exit]])

At some point, the Cylons revised the original Cylon robotic soldier, the sentient [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]], into a [[Cylon Centurion|more agile and dangerous version]]. Unlike the original version, however, the new Centurion is silent and is mechanically inhibited from being fully self-aware, as the humanoid Cylons wanted to prevent these updated creations from forming an intra-Cylon uprising that mirrored their war with the humans ([[Exodus, Part I]]).

==Returning Home==
The Cylons, realizing that the Colonial forces would likely be too strong to engage in a direct military action, devised an elaborate plan to infiltrate the Colonial ships' [[CNP|operating system software]], leaving a backdoor that could be exploited to disable any Colonial ship with its own programming. The plan was successful; the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Colonial Fleet was destroyed]], the Colonies themselves subjected to nuclear bombardment, and humanity was all but wiped out, except for a handful of survivors on the Colonies in outlying areas as well as [[The Fleet (RDM)|caravan of space-dwelling humans]] that eventually escaped the Colonial star system.

The Cylons continued to pursue the remnants of the Colonies, believing that humans would always seek vengeance against them ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

==The Faith and Reproduction==
:''Main article: [[Cylon Religion]]''

The Cylons followed the [[Cylon Religion|monotheistic religion]] of the human-built [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Centurions]], which was programmed into them by the [[Final Five]] ([[No Exit]]). Among other tenets, their faith calls for the Cylons to reproduce biologically as part of their mandate to replace humanity. However, as Cylon-Cylon reproduction was believed to be impossible, the Cylons occupied many of the devastated human worlds themselves, killing any surviving humans or pressing them into service in [[farms]], centers that harvest genetic material and fertilize human women with Cylon DNA in the hopes of creating Cylon-human hybrid children. The farms, however, proved to be unsuccessful, so the Cylons attempted to emotionally bond a humanoid Cylon with a human, hoping that love would generate the desired result ([[The Farm]]).

The experiment was successful, but was soon out of the Cylons' control (for a time). The conception and birth of a Cylon-human hybrid, [[Hera Agathon]], the child of [[Sharon Agathon|a rebellious Number Eight]] and [[Karl Agathon]], was born in the safety of the Colonial [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]].

==Mixed Successes==

The Cylons almost succeeded in sending the Colonials into chaos when [[Sharon Valerii|one agent]] nearly killed Commander [[William Adama]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). For reasons unknown, the Cylons did not press their tactical advantage at [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]], having underestimated Kobol's importance to the Colonials and their search for information on the path to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]].

Cylon forces continued to track and attack the Colonials for months, keeping the few humanoid Cylons in the human fleet reinforced with a [[Resurrection Ship]], used to resurrect the consciousnesses of killed agents, and gaining vital intelligence on the humans. Complicating the Cylons' plans, the Colonials gained sufficient water and fuel resources ("[[Water]]", "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]") and reunited with a second battlestar, ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' (which had conducted hit-and-run operations against Cylon installations and forces before discovering ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''). The Cylons suffered a major setback when the Colonial battlestars [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship|combined for an offensive action]] that all but destroyed a Cylon fleet, including a Resurrection Ship. Without the Resurrection Ship, the Cylon battle tactic changed for a time to ambushes and traps ("[[Scar]]", "[[The Captain's Hand]]").

==Benevolent Dictators==

Two humanoid Cylons, both "[[Hero of the Cylon|Heroes of the Cylon]]" for their undercover work among the Colonials, but now influenced by their affection for humanity, convinced the Cylon majority that the genocide and occupation of the Colonies was wrong. With this change in philosophy, the Cylons abandoned the Colonies and went out in search of the Colonials.

The Colonials eluded the Cylons for over a year by finding a hidden [[New Caprica|habitable world]] and colonizing it. The planet was located inside a nebula that masked its presence, but a [[Gina|nuclear detonation within the Colonial fleet]] left a marker for the Cylons to follow. The Cylons eventually found New Caprica and, in overwhelming numbers, made themselves the "caretakers" of the trapped colonists, occupying the colony and forcing the humans to surrender under the threat of annihilation ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

For approximately 138 days, the Colonials were subject to Cylon rule. The Cylons ostensibly wanted to cooperate with the humans and even help them in some areas such as agriculture, medicine and power generation. However, they also severely restricted many freedoms, which leds to a human [[New Caprica Resistance|resistance movement]] that struck back violently. The Cylons in turn increased their oppression, arresting, torturing and killing hundreds of people. Eventually ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus,'' which escaped New Caprica as the Cylon fleet arrived, managed to [[Battle of New Caprica|rescue]] the approximately 38,000 humans on New Caprica, but at great cost. This ended the experiment in human/Cylon relations, with some models are more determined than ever to deal with mankind once and for all (''[[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]'' through "[[Exodus, Part II]]")

==The Race to Earth==
:''Main article: [[Earth (RDM)]]''

The Cylons abandoned New Caprica as well, retrieving the Cylon-hybrid baby from the planet by happenstance, and turned their attention to the same objective as the Colonials: finding Earth. Using the research of [[Gaius Baltar]] (who resided with the Cylon fleet at the time), the Cylons located the [[Lion's Head Nebula]]. A scouting basestar found an [[Lion's Head beacon|ancient beacon]] in the area, verifying that the [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|Thirteenth Tribe]] did pass through the area on their way to Earth. But the Cylon scout ship met with disaster; the probe was [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|contaminated with a pathogen]] that, while benign to humans, infects, deactivates or kills all Cylons, their ships, and their entities ([[Torn]]).

The Cylon fleet, which also includes a second Resurrection Ship, abandoned the scouts and cut off further communication, believing that the virus could replicate through their resurrection process. The Cylon scout ship eventually self-destructed and the Cylons managed to prevent the infection from spreading, although, unknown to the Cylons, the Colonials gained a critical biological warfare option ([[A Measure of Salvation]]).

The [[Number Three]] units exhibited strange behavior in attempting to ascertain the identities of the [[Final Five]] Cylon models, as they had seen in visions prior to a model being resurrected. At the [[algae planet]], while the Cylon majority attempted to gain information on the location of Earth by way of the [[Eye of Jupiter]], the Threes' ulterior motive to seek knowledge of the [[Final Five]] disturbed the collective status quo and command consensus of the Cylon majority to the point where all Three models were [[boxing|boxed]] for their aberrant behavior ([[Rapture]])

==The Final Five==
:''Main article: [[Final Five]]''

Unknown to either the Cylon or Colonial commanders and leaders, four Colonials exhibited strange behavior that ultimately brought them to come to the discovery that they are Cylons. [[Saul Tigh]], [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]] were the only crewmembers that could hear a [[The Music|strange melody]] that drew them to meet each other in a room on ''Galactica'', shortly after the Fleet arrived at the Ionian nebula. The nature of these particular Cylon models, especially given Saul Tigh's existence as a decorated veteran of the Cylon War, was unclear and likely fundamentally different from other humanoid Cylons.

During the [[Battle of the Ionian Nebula|ensuing battle]], one [[Raider (RDM)|Raider]] identified Anders as a Cylon, which caused all Raiders to break off the battle and forced the Cylon fleet to retreat. Because of this, a [[Number One]] decided to lobotomize the Raiders to prevent such insubordination in the future. This decision was opposed by a faction, led by [[Natalie]], who advocated the search for the Final Five and who desired to unbox [[Number Three]] to learn what she found at the Temple of Five. The disagreement between these factions led to a [[Cylon Civil War|violent conflict]] between the humanoid models.

The Cylon Colony has been destroyed, and the remaining rebel Cylons arrive on second Earth.

==The Parent Trap==
In the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]], an [[w:Oedipus complex|Oedipus theme]] exists between the creations (Cylons) turning on their creators (Colonials). The [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid Cylons]] themselves draw the analogy of children murdering their parents:

[[Image:Parents have to die.jpg|thumb|right|"But parents have to die. It's the only way children come into their own."]]
* [[Number Six]]: "Humanity's children are returning home... today." ([[Miniseries]])
* [[Number Five]]: "But parents have to die. It's the only way children come into their own." ([[Bastille Day]])

Oedipus is the tragic character of Sophocles' play ''Oedipus Rex''. Without realizing it until much later, Oedipus murdered his father Laius and married his mother Jocasta, with whom he had several children, just as the Cylons had tried to do in the [[farms]].

All the Significant Seven models view each other as "siblings".

==Notes==
* The retaliatory nature of sentient machines against humanity is a popular [[Themes in Battlestar Galactica (RDM)#Themes compared to those in other media|theme]] in science fiction.
* On September 20, 2007, ''Battlestar Galactica'' writer and producer [[Bradley Thompson]] revealed that [[Ron D. Moore]]'s script for the pilot of ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' has a character coin the term "Cylon," saying, "A Cybernetic Life-Form Node, a CYLON." As ''Caprica'' has yet to go into production, there is yet no "official" definition.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

U-87

2009-04-25T09:18:57Z

Walabio: After editing the image of U-87, I forgot to export as JPEG. I switch to the JPEG for saving bandwidth.

[[image:u-87.jpeg | thumb | The U-87 is an early Cylon-Prototype ]]

The U-87 was an early prototype of the Cylons.

{{stub}}

U-87

2009-04-25T05:58:26Z

Walabio: The U-87 was an early prototype of the Cylons.

[[image:u-87.png | thumb | The U-87 is an early Cylon-Prototype ]]

The U-87 was an early prototype of the Cylons.

{{stub}}

Cylon History

2009-04-25T05:51:23Z

Walabio: I forgot the attribute “thumb”.

:''For information on the [[Original Series]] Cylons, see [[Cylons (TOS)]].''

{{RDM cylons series}}

Over 52 years prior to [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|the destruction of the Colonies]], the humans of the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] reveled in their advanced technology, from which came their creation, the Cylons, a race of sentient machines. However, over 4,000 years ago, ancient Cylons have existed on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]].

==Ancient Cylons==
Some 4,000 years prior to the events depicted in the [[Miniseries]], the [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|Thirteenth Tribe]], an early generation of humanoid Cylons that originated from [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] colonized the [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]. With them there was also a distinct model of robotic Cylon, of which only the buried helmet has been seen. Roughly 2000 years later, Earth's civilization was wiped out by nuclear war between mechanical and humanoid Cylons. There were only five known survivors, who would come to be known as the [[Final Five]]. These survivors were researchers involved in the recent rediscovery of [[resurrection (RDM)|resurrection technology]], who anticipated the attack and resurrected aboard a ship which they had prepared. They then began the approximately 2000 years long sublight journey to the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] in order to prevent the [[Cylon War]].

==First Cylons in the Twelve Colonies==
The first Cylons in the Twelve Colonies were created by [[Daniel Graystone]], a brilliant [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprican]] computer scientist <ref name="casting call">{{cite_web|url=http://www.tvsquad.com/2008/04/03/exclusive-caprica-casting-info-revealed/|title=Caprica casting info|date=Apr 3, 2008}} '''Note:''' This information is based on early reports and casting sheets, and thus subject to change.</ref>.

[[image:u-87.png | thumb | The [[U-87]] is an early Cylon-Prototype ]]

{{spoiltext|Graystone's daughter [[Zoe Graystone|Zoe]] died in a suicide bombing. After learning that his daughter uploaded her personality into an online avatar before her death, Graystone decided to recreate Zoe as a robot, using technology stolen from his [[Tauron (RDM)|Tauron]] competitor, [[Tomas Vergis]] with the help of his wife [[Amanda Graystone|Amanda]] and [[Joseph Adama]], whose wife and daughter also died in the same explosion. Zoe-A, the holographic avatar, was downloaded into a robot brain, and thus became Zoe-R, the first cybernetic life-form node, or Cylon. Graystone also created a Cylon version of [[Tamara Adama]], but her father was appalled by it, and decided to repent his actions.}}
Cylons were being constructed for the purpose of performing tasks no human desired to do. The Cylons were used in hazardous work, including wars between the colonies (before the [[Articles of Colonization]], most or all colonies were sovereign states).

==The Cylon War==

Then the day came when the servants turned against their masters, and the [[Cylon War]] began. Humans responded by unifying their Colonies into a federal republic (with the Articles of Colonization) and building [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestars]] and military craft such as the one-manned [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] fighter ([[Miniseries]]) and the workhorse, multi-function craft called the [[Raptor]] to combat the Cylons ([[Razor Flashbacks]]). To date, no reason has been offered as to how or why the Cylons rebelled.

The war lasted twelve and a half years, with the Colonies, [[Battle of Tauron|such as]] [[Tauron (RDM)|Tauron]], close to a fall. However, an armistice was declared, resulting in the the Cylons' departure from the Colonial worlds in search of [[Cylon homeworld|a home]] of their own.

==The Transition==
During the Cylon War, Cylons secretly made the first steps developing [[Humanoid Cylon|new models]] that were organic in nature and essentially identical to humans. The first step in their evolution from pure machines to organic beings was known as the "[[First Hybrid|Hybrid]]." Other [[hybrid]]s were later created to control [[Basestar (RDM)|baseships]] before the experiments were abandoned ([[Razor]]).

Before the Cylons were able to develop independent humanoid models, the [[Final Five]] arrived, offering both their assistance and resurrection technology in exchange for an end to the war against the colonies.

The first of these organic models was John, later known as [[Number One]] and Brother Cavil, patterned and named after [[Ellen Tigh|Ellen]]'s father. He assisted in the development of the other seven models. John, jealous over the attention Ellen paid to Daniel, the original [[Number Seven]], contaminated the amniotic fluid in which the Number Seven copies were being grown and corrupted the model's genetic formula. The fate of Daniel prototype is unknown; Anders states simply that "Daniel died." Bitter over the limitations of his organic body and obsessed with vengeance against humanity, Cavil then killed the Final Five and boxed them, later resurrecting them with false memories and sending them to the twelve colonies. It can be inferred that he is responsible for programming the other six models to avoid thinking of the Final Five. ([[No Exit]])

At some point, the Cylons revised the original Cylon robotic soldier, the sentient [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]], into a [[Cylon Centurion|more agile and dangerous version]]. Unlike the original version, however, the new Centurion is silent and is mechanically inhibited from being fully self-aware, as the humanoid Cylons wanted to prevent these updated creations from forming an intra-Cylon uprising that mirrored their war with the humans ([[Exodus, Part I]]).

==Returning Home==
The Cylons, realizing that the Colonial forces would likely be too strong to engage in a direct military action, devised an elaborate plan to infiltrate the Colonial ships' [[CNP|operating system software]], leaving a backdoor that could be exploited to disable any Colonial ship with its own programming. The plan was successful; the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Colonial Fleet was destroyed]], the Colonies themselves subjected to nuclear bombardment, and humanity was all but wiped out, except for a handful of survivors on the Colonies in outlying areas as well as [[The Fleet (RDM)|caravan of space-dwelling humans]] that eventually escaped the Colonial star system.

The Cylons continued to pursue the remnants of the Colonies, believing that humans would always seek vengeance against them ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

==The Faith and Reproduction==
:''Main article: [[Cylon Religion]]''

The Cylons followed the [[Cylon Religion|monotheistic religion]] of the human-built [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Centurions]], which was programmed into them by the [[Final Five]] ([[No Exit]]). Among other tenets, their faith calls for the Cylons to reproduce biologically as part of their mandate to replace humanity. However, as Cylon-Cylon reproduction was believed to be impossible, the Cylons occupied many of the devastated human worlds themselves, killing any surviving humans or pressing them into service in [[farms]], centers that harvest genetic material and fertilize human women with Cylon DNA in the hopes of creating Cylon-human hybrid children. The farms, however, proved to be unsuccessful, so the Cylons attempted to emotionally bond a humanoid Cylon with a human, hoping that love would generate the desired result ([[The Farm]]).

The experiment was successful, but was soon out of the Cylons' control (for a time). The conception and birth of a Cylon-human hybrid, [[Hera Agathon]], the child of [[Sharon Agathon|a rebellious Number Eight]] and [[Karl Agathon]], was born in the safety of the Colonial [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]].

==Mixed Successes==

The Cylons almost succeeded in sending the Colonials into chaos when [[Sharon Valerii|one agent]] nearly killed Commander [[William Adama]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). For reasons unknown, the Cylons did not press their tactical advantage at [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]], having underestimated Kobol's importance to the Colonials and their search for information on the path to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]].

Cylon forces continued to track and attack the Colonials for months, keeping the few humanoid Cylons in the human fleet reinforced with a [[Resurrection Ship]], used to resurrect the consciousnesses of killed agents, and gaining vital intelligence on the humans. Complicating the Cylons' plans, the Colonials gained sufficient water and fuel resources ("[[Water]]", "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]") and reunited with a second battlestar, ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' (which had conducted hit-and-run operations against Cylon installations and forces before discovering ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''). The Cylons suffered a major setback when the Colonial battlestars [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship|combined for an offensive action]] that all but destroyed a Cylon fleet, including a Resurrection Ship. Without the Resurrection Ship, the Cylon battle tactic changed for a time to ambushes and traps ("[[Scar]]", "[[The Captain's Hand]]").

==Benevolent Dictators==

Two humanoid Cylons, both "[[Hero of the Cylon|Heroes of the Cylon]]" for their undercover work among the Colonials, but now influenced by their affection for humanity, convinced the Cylon majority that the genocide and occupation of the Colonies was wrong. With this change in philosophy, the Cylons abandoned the Colonies and went out in search of the Colonials.

The Colonials eluded the Cylons for over a year by finding a hidden [[New Caprica|habitable world]] and colonizing it. The planet was located inside a nebula that masked its presence, but a [[Gina|nuclear detonation within the Colonial fleet]] left a marker for the Cylons to follow. The Cylons eventually found New Caprica and, in overwhelming numbers, made themselves the "caretakers" of the trapped colonists, occupying the colony and forcing the humans to surrender under the threat of annihilation ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

For approximately 138 days, the Colonials were subject to Cylon rule. The Cylons ostensibly wanted to cooperate with the humans and even help them in some areas such as agriculture, medicine and power generation. However, they also severely restricted many freedoms, which leds to a human [[New Caprica Resistance|resistance movement]] that struck back violently. The Cylons in turn increased their oppression, arresting, torturing and killing hundreds of people. Eventually ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus,'' which escaped New Caprica as the Cylon fleet arrived, managed to [[Battle of New Caprica|rescue]] the approximately 38,000 humans on New Caprica, but at great cost. This ended the experiment in human/Cylon relations, with some models are more determined than ever to deal with mankind once and for all (''[[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]'' through "[[Exodus, Part II]]")

==The Race to Earth==
:''Main article: [[Earth (RDM)]]''

The Cylons abandoned New Caprica as well, retrieving the Cylon-hybrid baby from the planet by happenstance, and turned their attention to the same objective as the Colonials: finding Earth. Using the research of [[Gaius Baltar]] (who resided with the Cylon fleet at the time), the Cylons located the [[Lion's Head Nebula]]. A scouting basestar found an [[Lion's Head beacon|ancient beacon]] in the area, verifying that the [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|Thirteenth Tribe]] did pass through the area on their way to Earth. But the Cylon scout ship met with disaster; the probe was [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|contaminated with a pathogen]] that, while benign to humans, infects, deactivates or kills all Cylons, their ships, and their entities ([[Torn]]).

The Cylon fleet, which also includes a second Resurrection Ship, abandoned the scouts and cut off further communication, believing that the virus could replicate through their resurrection process. The Cylon scout ship eventually self-destructed and the Cylons managed to prevent the infection from spreading, although, unknown to the Cylons, the Colonials gained a critical biological warfare option ([[A Measure of Salvation]]).

The [[Number Three]] units exhibited strange behavior in attempting to ascertain the identities of the [[Final Five]] Cylon models, as they had seen in visions prior to a model being resurrected. At the [[algae planet]], while the Cylon majority attempted to gain information on the location of Earth by way of the [[Eye of Jupiter]], the Threes' ulterior motive to seek knowledge of the [[Final Five]] disturbed the collective status quo and command consensus of the Cylon majority to the point where all Three models were [[boxing|boxed]] for their aberrant behavior ([[Rapture]])

==The Final Five==
:''Main article: [[Final Five]]''

Unknown to either the Cylon or Colonial commanders and leaders, four Colonials exhibited strange behavior that ultimately brought them to come to the discovery that they are Cylons. [[Saul Tigh]], [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]] were the only crewmembers that could hear a [[The Music|strange melody]] that drew them to meet each other in a room on ''Galactica'', shortly after the Fleet arrived at the Ionian nebula. The nature of these particular Cylon models, especially given Saul Tigh's existence as a decorated veteran of the Cylon War, was unclear and likely fundamentally different from other humanoid Cylons.

During the [[Battle of the Ionian Nebula|ensuing battle]], one [[Raider (RDM)|Raider]] identified Anders as a Cylon, which caused all Raiders to break off the battle and forced the Cylon fleet to retreat. Because of this, a [[Number One]] decided to lobotomize the Raiders to prevent such insubordination in the future. This decision was opposed by a faction, led by [[Natalie]], who advocated the search for the Final Five and who desired to unbox [[Number Three]] to learn what she found at the Temple of Five. The disagreement between these factions led to a [[Cylon Civil War|violent conflict]] between the humanoid models.

The Cylon Colony has been destroyed, and the remaining rebel Cylons arrive on second Earth.

==The Parent Trap==
In the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]], an [[w:Oedipus complex|Oedipus theme]] exists between the creations (Cylons) turning on their creators (Colonials). The [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid Cylons]] themselves draw the analogy of children murdering their parents:

[[Image:Parents have to die.jpg|thumb|right|"But parents have to die. It's the only way children come into their own."]]
* [[Number Six]]: "Humanity's children are returning home... today." ([[Miniseries]])
* [[Number Five]]: "But parents have to die. It's the only way children come into their own." ([[Bastille Day]])

Oedipus is the tragic character of Sophocles' play ''Oedipus Rex''. Without realizing it until much later, Oedipus murdered his father Laius and married his mother Jocasta, with whom he had several children, just as the Cylons had tried to do in the [[farms]].

All the Significant Seven models view each other as "siblings".

==Notes==
* The retaliatory nature of sentient machines against humanity is a popular [[Themes in Battlestar Galactica (RDM)#Themes compared to those in other media|theme]] in science fiction.
* On September 20, 2007, ''Battlestar Galactica'' writer and producer [[Bradley Thompson]] revealed that [[Ron D. Moore]]'s script for the pilot of ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' has a character coin the term "Cylon," saying, "A Cybernetic Life-Form Node, a CYLON." As ''Caprica'' has yet to go into production, there is yet no "official" definition.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Cylon History

2009-04-25T05:35:11Z

Walabio: The U-87 is an early Cylon-Prototype.

:''For information on the [[Original Series]] Cylons, see [[Cylons (TOS)]].''

{{RDM cylons series}}

Over 52 years prior to [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|the destruction of the Colonies]], the humans of the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] reveled in their advanced technology, from which came their creation, the Cylons, a race of sentient machines. However, over 4,000 years ago, ancient Cylons have existed on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]].

==Ancient Cylons==
Some 4,000 years prior to the events depicted in the [[Miniseries]], the [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|Thirteenth Tribe]], an early generation of humanoid Cylons that originated from [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] colonized the [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]. With them there was also a distinct model of robotic Cylon, of which only the buried helmet has been seen. Roughly 2000 years later, Earth's civilization was wiped out by nuclear war between mechanical and humanoid Cylons. There were only five known survivors, who would come to be known as the [[Final Five]]. These survivors were researchers involved in the recent rediscovery of [[resurrection (RDM)|resurrection technology]], who anticipated the attack and resurrected aboard a ship which they had prepared. They then began the approximately 2000 years long sublight journey to the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] in order to prevent the [[Cylon War]].

==First Cylons in the Twelve Colonies==
The first Cylons in the Twelve Colonies were created by [[Daniel Graystone]], a brilliant [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprican]] computer scientist <ref name="casting call">{{cite_web|url=http://www.tvsquad.com/2008/04/03/exclusive-caprica-casting-info-revealed/|title=Caprica casting info|date=Apr 3, 2008}} '''Note:''' This information is based on early reports and casting sheets, and thus subject to change.</ref>.

[[image:u-87.png | frame | The [[U-87]] is an early Cylon-Prototype ]]

{{spoiltext|Graystone's daughter [[Zoe Graystone|Zoe]] died in a suicide bombing. After learning that his daughter uploaded her personality into an online avatar before her death, Graystone decided to recreate Zoe as a robot, using technology stolen from his [[Tauron (RDM)|Tauron]] competitor, [[Tomas Vergis]] with the help of his wife [[Amanda Graystone|Amanda]] and [[Joseph Adama]], whose wife and daughter also died in the same explosion. Zoe-A, the holographic avatar, was downloaded into a robot brain, and thus became Zoe-R, the first cybernetic life-form node, or Cylon. Graystone also created a Cylon version of [[Tamara Adama]], but her father was appalled by it, and decided to repent his actions.}}
Cylons were being constructed for the purpose of performing tasks no human desired to do. The Cylons were used in hazardous work, including wars between the colonies (before the [[Articles of Colonization]], most or all colonies were sovereign states).

==The Cylon War==

Then the day came when the servants turned against their masters, and the [[Cylon War]] began. Humans responded by unifying their Colonies into a federal republic (with the Articles of Colonization) and building [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestars]] and military craft such as the one-manned [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] fighter ([[Miniseries]]) and the workhorse, multi-function craft called the [[Raptor]] to combat the Cylons ([[Razor Flashbacks]]). To date, no reason has been offered as to how or why the Cylons rebelled.

The war lasted twelve and a half years, with the Colonies, [[Battle of Tauron|such as]] [[Tauron (RDM)|Tauron]], close to a fall. However, an armistice was declared, resulting in the the Cylons' departure from the Colonial worlds in search of [[Cylon homeworld|a home]] of their own.

==The Transition==
During the Cylon War, Cylons secretly made the first steps developing [[Humanoid Cylon|new models]] that were organic in nature and essentially identical to humans. The first step in their evolution from pure machines to organic beings was known as the "[[First Hybrid|Hybrid]]." Other [[hybrid]]s were later created to control [[Basestar (RDM)|baseships]] before the experiments were abandoned ([[Razor]]).

Before the Cylons were able to develop independent humanoid models, the [[Final Five]] arrived, offering both their assistance and resurrection technology in exchange for an end to the war against the colonies.

The first of these organic models was John, later known as [[Number One]] and Brother Cavil, patterned and named after [[Ellen Tigh|Ellen]]'s father. He assisted in the development of the other seven models. John, jealous over the attention Ellen paid to Daniel, the original [[Number Seven]], contaminated the amniotic fluid in which the Number Seven copies were being grown and corrupted the model's genetic formula. The fate of Daniel prototype is unknown; Anders states simply that "Daniel died." Bitter over the limitations of his organic body and obsessed with vengeance against humanity, Cavil then killed the Final Five and boxed them, later resurrecting them with false memories and sending them to the twelve colonies. It can be inferred that he is responsible for programming the other six models to avoid thinking of the Final Five. ([[No Exit]])

At some point, the Cylons revised the original Cylon robotic soldier, the sentient [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]], into a [[Cylon Centurion|more agile and dangerous version]]. Unlike the original version, however, the new Centurion is silent and is mechanically inhibited from being fully self-aware, as the humanoid Cylons wanted to prevent these updated creations from forming an intra-Cylon uprising that mirrored their war with the humans ([[Exodus, Part I]]).

==Returning Home==
The Cylons, realizing that the Colonial forces would likely be too strong to engage in a direct military action, devised an elaborate plan to infiltrate the Colonial ships' [[CNP|operating system software]], leaving a backdoor that could be exploited to disable any Colonial ship with its own programming. The plan was successful; the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Colonial Fleet was destroyed]], the Colonies themselves subjected to nuclear bombardment, and humanity was all but wiped out, except for a handful of survivors on the Colonies in outlying areas as well as [[The Fleet (RDM)|caravan of space-dwelling humans]] that eventually escaped the Colonial star system.

The Cylons continued to pursue the remnants of the Colonies, believing that humans would always seek vengeance against them ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

==The Faith and Reproduction==
:''Main article: [[Cylon Religion]]''

The Cylons followed the [[Cylon Religion|monotheistic religion]] of the human-built [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Centurions]], which was programmed into them by the [[Final Five]] ([[No Exit]]). Among other tenets, their faith calls for the Cylons to reproduce biologically as part of their mandate to replace humanity. However, as Cylon-Cylon reproduction was believed to be impossible, the Cylons occupied many of the devastated human worlds themselves, killing any surviving humans or pressing them into service in [[farms]], centers that harvest genetic material and fertilize human women with Cylon DNA in the hopes of creating Cylon-human hybrid children. The farms, however, proved to be unsuccessful, so the Cylons attempted to emotionally bond a humanoid Cylon with a human, hoping that love would generate the desired result ([[The Farm]]).

The experiment was successful, but was soon out of the Cylons' control (for a time). The conception and birth of a Cylon-human hybrid, [[Hera Agathon]], the child of [[Sharon Agathon|a rebellious Number Eight]] and [[Karl Agathon]], was born in the safety of the Colonial [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]].

==Mixed Successes==

The Cylons almost succeeded in sending the Colonials into chaos when [[Sharon Valerii|one agent]] nearly killed Commander [[William Adama]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). For reasons unknown, the Cylons did not press their tactical advantage at [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]], having underestimated Kobol's importance to the Colonials and their search for information on the path to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]].

Cylon forces continued to track and attack the Colonials for months, keeping the few humanoid Cylons in the human fleet reinforced with a [[Resurrection Ship]], used to resurrect the consciousnesses of killed agents, and gaining vital intelligence on the humans. Complicating the Cylons' plans, the Colonials gained sufficient water and fuel resources ("[[Water]]", "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]") and reunited with a second battlestar, ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' (which had conducted hit-and-run operations against Cylon installations and forces before discovering ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''). The Cylons suffered a major setback when the Colonial battlestars [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship|combined for an offensive action]] that all but destroyed a Cylon fleet, including a Resurrection Ship. Without the Resurrection Ship, the Cylon battle tactic changed for a time to ambushes and traps ("[[Scar]]", "[[The Captain's Hand]]").

==Benevolent Dictators==

Two humanoid Cylons, both "[[Hero of the Cylon|Heroes of the Cylon]]" for their undercover work among the Colonials, but now influenced by their affection for humanity, convinced the Cylon majority that the genocide and occupation of the Colonies was wrong. With this change in philosophy, the Cylons abandoned the Colonies and went out in search of the Colonials.

The Colonials eluded the Cylons for over a year by finding a hidden [[New Caprica|habitable world]] and colonizing it. The planet was located inside a nebula that masked its presence, but a [[Gina|nuclear detonation within the Colonial fleet]] left a marker for the Cylons to follow. The Cylons eventually found New Caprica and, in overwhelming numbers, made themselves the "caretakers" of the trapped colonists, occupying the colony and forcing the humans to surrender under the threat of annihilation ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

For approximately 138 days, the Colonials were subject to Cylon rule. The Cylons ostensibly wanted to cooperate with the humans and even help them in some areas such as agriculture, medicine and power generation. However, they also severely restricted many freedoms, which leds to a human [[New Caprica Resistance|resistance movement]] that struck back violently. The Cylons in turn increased their oppression, arresting, torturing and killing hundreds of people. Eventually ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus,'' which escaped New Caprica as the Cylon fleet arrived, managed to [[Battle of New Caprica|rescue]] the approximately 38,000 humans on New Caprica, but at great cost. This ended the experiment in human/Cylon relations, with some models are more determined than ever to deal with mankind once and for all (''[[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]'' through "[[Exodus, Part II]]")

==The Race to Earth==
:''Main article: [[Earth (RDM)]]''

The Cylons abandoned New Caprica as well, retrieving the Cylon-hybrid baby from the planet by happenstance, and turned their attention to the same objective as the Colonials: finding Earth. Using the research of [[Gaius Baltar]] (who resided with the Cylon fleet at the time), the Cylons located the [[Lion's Head Nebula]]. A scouting basestar found an [[Lion's Head beacon|ancient beacon]] in the area, verifying that the [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|Thirteenth Tribe]] did pass through the area on their way to Earth. But the Cylon scout ship met with disaster; the probe was [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|contaminated with a pathogen]] that, while benign to humans, infects, deactivates or kills all Cylons, their ships, and their entities ([[Torn]]).

The Cylon fleet, which also includes a second Resurrection Ship, abandoned the scouts and cut off further communication, believing that the virus could replicate through their resurrection process. The Cylon scout ship eventually self-destructed and the Cylons managed to prevent the infection from spreading, although, unknown to the Cylons, the Colonials gained a critical biological warfare option ([[A Measure of Salvation]]).

The [[Number Three]] units exhibited strange behavior in attempting to ascertain the identities of the [[Final Five]] Cylon models, as they had seen in visions prior to a model being resurrected. At the [[algae planet]], while the Cylon majority attempted to gain information on the location of Earth by way of the [[Eye of Jupiter]], the Threes' ulterior motive to seek knowledge of the [[Final Five]] disturbed the collective status quo and command consensus of the Cylon majority to the point where all Three models were [[boxing|boxed]] for their aberrant behavior ([[Rapture]])

==The Final Five==
:''Main article: [[Final Five]]''

Unknown to either the Cylon or Colonial commanders and leaders, four Colonials exhibited strange behavior that ultimately brought them to come to the discovery that they are Cylons. [[Saul Tigh]], [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]] were the only crewmembers that could hear a [[The Music|strange melody]] that drew them to meet each other in a room on ''Galactica'', shortly after the Fleet arrived at the Ionian nebula. The nature of these particular Cylon models, especially given Saul Tigh's existence as a decorated veteran of the Cylon War, was unclear and likely fundamentally different from other humanoid Cylons.

During the [[Battle of the Ionian Nebula|ensuing battle]], one [[Raider (RDM)|Raider]] identified Anders as a Cylon, which caused all Raiders to break off the battle and forced the Cylon fleet to retreat. Because of this, a [[Number One]] decided to lobotomize the Raiders to prevent such insubordination in the future. This decision was opposed by a faction, led by [[Natalie]], who advocated the search for the Final Five and who desired to unbox [[Number Three]] to learn what she found at the Temple of Five. The disagreement between these factions led to a [[Cylon Civil War|violent conflict]] between the humanoid models.

The Cylon Colony has been destroyed, and the remaining rebel Cylons arrive on second Earth.

==The Parent Trap==
In the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]], an [[w:Oedipus complex|Oedipus theme]] exists between the creations (Cylons) turning on their creators (Colonials). The [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid Cylons]] themselves draw the analogy of children murdering their parents:

[[Image:Parents have to die.jpg|thumb|right|"But parents have to die. It's the only way children come into their own."]]
* [[Number Six]]: "Humanity's children are returning home... today." ([[Miniseries]])
* [[Number Five]]: "But parents have to die. It's the only way children come into their own." ([[Bastille Day]])

Oedipus is the tragic character of Sophocles' play ''Oedipus Rex''. Without realizing it until much later, Oedipus murdered his father Laius and married his mother Jocasta, with whom he had several children, just as the Cylons had tried to do in the [[farms]].

All the Significant Seven models view each other as "siblings".

==Notes==
* The retaliatory nature of sentient machines against humanity is a popular [[Themes in Battlestar Galactica (RDM)#Themes compared to those in other media|theme]] in science fiction.
* On September 20, 2007, ''Battlestar Galactica'' writer and producer [[Bradley Thompson]] revealed that [[Ron D. Moore]]'s script for the pilot of ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' has a character coin the term "Cylon," saying, "A Cybernetic Life-Form Node, a CYLON." As ''Caprica'' has yet to go into production, there is yet no "official" definition.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Daybreak, Part II/Archive 1

2009-03-22T17:28:01Z

Walabio: The chromosomal Adam live tens of thousands of years after the Mitochondrial Eve.

Talk:Daybreak, Part II/Archive 1

2009-03-22T10:58:39Z

Walabio: /* The Angels Make Life In This Galaxy Boringly Homogenous. */ new section

Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

2009-03-22T10:56:15Z

Walabio: /* These Angels Making Life In This Galaxy Boringly Homogenous. */ new section

:''For discussions prior to March 14, 2007, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Virtual_beings&oldid=110913 see this revision.]''

== Major revision ==

This article was strewn with theories and [[BW:FANW|fanwankery]] that cluttered the article. With the revelations of season 3, what is known about the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar reduces the probability of earlier speculation. Recent contributions have been more of possibility that is hardly supported by aired content, and reading the article as a whole was nearly impossible. As well, the article repeated informaation already present in the episode guides or a more relevant article. I have rewritten the article to keep sole focus on the origins, motivations and behavior of the virtual beings, removing all previous irrelevant, incorrect or otherwise inappropriate content on their nature or history.

As this article deals with the virtual beings related to Cylon activity, I eliminated the text on other character visions; they are more suited for a separate article to keep topics from blending.

With major revisions like this, there is always a possibility that something significant was lost. Contributors should feel free to add in significant notes of the virtual beings, but please do not repeat every instance of the being's presence or interject speculation that is not supported with episode content. The article, in my opinion and recommendation, should focus more on what they do to the actual characters and less on their nature until the show reveals more of their origin. Again, please be careful about excessive speculation; "theories" per se are not acceptable on Battlestar Wiki. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

== Virtual Baltar Episodes ==

In the major edit, I botched the episode citation for virtual Baltar's visit to C-Six in her jail cell. One or both of the episode citations I noted are wrong. Corrections to this information are appreciated. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:54, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:The visit is in "The Woman King". That's where the two kiss and they wonder what's going on.--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:00, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

About this: "Neither character has revealed the presence of these images to each other or any other character as of the episode, "[[The Woman King]]" (where the virtual Baltar makes an appearance)." 
Does this mean that it is the first instance where another character (here Roslin) really wonders what one of them is doing? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

:It should say "Neither character has revealed the existence (...)." Other characters have witnessed the strange behavior, but to my memory, only Roslin has verbally wondered. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

== Baltar and his Virtual Baltar ==

Virtual Baltar has appeared to Baltar. -- [[User:LicensedLunacy|LicensedLunacy]] 16:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that Baltar seeing himself is just a unique way to convey he is thinking/ talking to himself, considering his options. [[User:Snorkel378|Snorkel378]]

: That might be a good way to look at it... Actually, it might be another part of his psyche he's talking to. It can be said that Virtual Six is the part of his subconscious mind, trying to deal with the fact that he's responsible for so many people's deaths in another light. But that's a topic for discussion at a [http://www.battlestarforum.com forum]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 00:14, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

==Virtual Leoben==
Shouldn't we add virtual Leoben? He's sort of important I'd say, and is not a part of Kara...--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

:That's a good question. I would say "yes" but that also introduces other dream-related visions such as the ones I removed. I recommend "no" as the article should limit itself to visions that are experienced by characters in real-time and not while unconscious (sleeping or otherwise). That's my opinion and is open for more scrutiny. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:No. There is a good chance that Head-Six and Head-Baltar are somehow Cylon-related. That chance is not so great with Maelstrom Leoben, since IMHO it's more likely just a representation of her own subconscious and not in any way whatsoever related to the real Leoben (it even says so in the episode). --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:04, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::Maybe we should add at least a note about Maelstrom Leoben and A Day in Life Carolanne, though? 12:37, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
:::I concur with Serenity. The virtuals are definitely a unexpected (and unrevealed) side-effect of Cylon technology, that much is certain. The virtual Leoben ''isn't'' a Cylon, and doesn't appear in real time. He needs a separate article (and deserves it). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::::I've created a [[virtual Leoben]] article and updated the relevant pages where he it cited. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::::I have to disagree that the virtual Six and Baltar are definitely, or even probably, a result of Cylon technology. Their nature is as unknown as the virtual Leoben's. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:37, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

==Cylon Tech==
Isn't this line: "Since the effect appears to occur only between Caprica-Six and Gaius Baltar, it is possible that their visions are an unknown side-effect of Cylon technology," complete specualtion? I think it should be removed, but before doing so, I thought I'd check to make sure there wasn't any concensus I wasn't aware of. If it happened with the other six members of the [[Significant Seven]] (or even a majority of them) I wouldn't have as much of a problem, but as it's only happened with Six and Baltar I think it's out of place. If anything, a more appropriate stateent would be something like it's an unkown side-effect of cylon-human intimacy.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 21:09, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
:The way you phrase is still speculation, but is more precise to what we know, and would be more appropriate. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]
::I completely agree, and I'd rather remove it outright, but was trying to be diplomatic. I'm going to remove it completely.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 10:25, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

== Virtual Ellen? ==

How is she different from Bill's hallucination of [[Carolanne Adama]] in "[[A Day in the Life]]"? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 18:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, it could just be a normal hallucination. This might be more, but until it is confirmed, pushing her appearance so clearly into the direction of the virtual beings is POV. I reworded the section to make it more neutral and less certain. The term "Virtual Ellen" shouldn't be used so freely and always in quotation marks. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:18, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:It depends. I have a feeling we'll see more of her in future episodes. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:12, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::Tigh could even be [[projection|projecting]] her onto Caprica Six (seems a bit the wrong way round to me :D) but that doesn't make her a being like V.Six or V.Baltar who are all mystical or whatnot. Ellen's words and actions all seem to be what Caprica said and did anyway, wheras V.Six and V.Baltar are separate entities. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:31, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:::That's definitely a possibility. Maybe doing a "hallucinations" article would suffice... which would be a bit ironic, given that this article itself came from an article on Cylon based hallucinations, if I recall correctly. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::::You do. We used to describe hallucinations here, only to discover they were all virtual beings, and renamed the article accordingly. With Adama and Tigh hallucinating about their wives, that may not have been that good a choice (in hindsight). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 23:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::I suggest we move the "Virtual Ellen" section into the [[Ellen Tigh]] article until we have a reason to believe she is anything other than a hallucination/projection. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::I think it would be more appropriate here or in the Saul Tigh article. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:38, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

==Virtual?==

I think the fact that we've seen direct physical intervention by "Virtual" Six onscreen in [[Escape Velocity]] throws the whole "virtual" concept right out the window. Could explain the sudden disappearance of [[Shelly Godfrey]] and [[Gina]] after their respective acts, as well. One could also infer some serious intervention on the part of "Virtual" Leoben during Starbuck's "death" but that's even further speculation. Anyway, just a thought I felt was worth mentioning. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 20:01, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:She only interacted with Baltar. We've seen her push him into a wall or mirror before, so we know that she can force him to move in a certain way. I don't see how that makes her any less "virtual," since she exists in his mind. And Gina didn't suddenly dissapear, she blew herself up. [[User:INH|INH]] 02:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
The footage clearly shows intervention ... he's held up and forced towards the marines, moving quite unnaturally. Yes, Gina blew herself up, but I'm referring to how she removed herself from ''Pegasus'' after killing Cain. I'd love some episode reference for "We've seen her push him into a wall or mirror before" so I can review it. Thanks. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 02:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
: Right, she's still virtual, and we don't really see whether or not Baltar's feet make it off the ground. I'm sure they did some wire work in the scene, but we don't really know what we're supposed to believe... This is where a podcast would definitely help. The only one that disappears unexpectedly is Shelly, and she could have easily flushed herself out an airlock, given how they aren't guarded. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:36, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
: While it's the most extreme seemingly physical interaction so far, this isn't really too different from what happens in ''[[w:Fight Club|Fight Club]]'' for example, and not completely impossible to do alone. While it seems that he is held in the air, it's not actually shown. Could be either. Sure, it might be more, but it's not ''that'' certain. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::IMO anything which happens while Virtual Six is visible should be considered unreliable. In other words, I think that only movements which Baltar could not plasibly make under his own power occuring while Virtual Six is not in the shot should be considered conclusive evidence of physical interaction. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 08:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::I don't at all like the implication of an invisible "Six" physically lifting Baltar, but we have to acknowledge that setting up the shot the way they did was not at all trivial, and must have been done for a reason. Whether this was intended to be dramatic (and thus, demands a literal interpretation) or comic (and thus, just a sight gag) is unclear - it's a mirthless episode, but Olmos's previous episodes have demonstrated a taste for comedy. If it we have to interpret it literally, well, that's a challenge. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::To counter the point, had Baltar been lifted "off the ground", we'd see a variety of shocked reactions from those who witnessed this otherworldly event. So not only do we have to gauge what we see Baltar doing, but we also have to look at the entire picture. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::I dont understand how this is in question. IIRC from the podcast for the episode..James Callis did all the movements under his own power..if the actor could do them, why is it in question the the character couldn't do them? Also from the podcast, Ron complained that the intent was not to look like he was lifted but under his own power. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 04:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

== Virtual > Head ==

Pretty much every official source I see (including RDM's podcast) uses the phrases "Head-Six", and "Head-Baltar" rather than "Virtual". Shouldn't we follow suit? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 20:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
:Lacks gravitas, but does seem more standard. What does RDM call them in the podcasts? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::He calls them Head-Six and Head-Baltar. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 05:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:We can use both. And note the terminology here. But there isn't really much point in changing it throughout the wiki. I don't think it's too confusing to use both for some variety. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::We should use both. "Head" is more colloquial but also has a loose ungrammatical and perjorative nature I find weird. I see "virtual" around the fansphere just as well. For this article and throughout the wiki, "virtual" should be used but references to "head" (yes, please) should be redirects to here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Such redirects are already in place :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:19, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't agree that we should use "Head-Six" and "Head-Baltar". Frankly, this already presupposes that these are figments of a person's imagination; virtual is more ambiguous, and has a wider-range of meanings than "head" (which is another way of saying "glorified imaginary friend". So, Ron uses it... then again, he and Eick have diluted themselves into believing that "Hero" fits snugly into continuity when we all know that isn't the case. So... time to put on those critical thinking caps. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 21:52, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

== Virtual Cat ==

I find it curious that [[Romo Lampkin]]'s virtual cat from [[Sine Qua Non]] isn't listed. Is this an oversight or is it deliberate? There can be no question that the cat was indeed virtual. That cat had been dead for a long enough time for Lee to question its time of death. The cat is never seen by Lee. Romo is the only one to interact with the cat, and then, only by voice.
--[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 04:28, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
::Because there's a difference between a virtual being and a mere hallucination. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:37, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
:::I havent seen this distinction in the show. No virtual being has given any character any information that they didnt already know, or could have reasonably deduced by themselves. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 04:02, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
::The Virtual Six lifted Baltar off the ground in a manner that was physically impossible for him to do on his own. There are other examples too. The virtual beings aren't mere hallucinations. The presence of extra-corporeal entities and/or spiritual powers in this show is all but spelled out in giant letters for the audience. [[User:Blue Rook|Blue Rook]] 08:19, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Not so. Baltar had no way of knowing that Hera would arrive or of her connection to the Opera House. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
::::How could have a cylon known about the birth of hara? And if james callis could do the moves without outside assistence, so could baltar. And havent you noticed that when Ron Moore hits you over the head with a concept, its often wrong? And this still doesn't rule out a virtual cat. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 07:36, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
:::::What Cylon? Virtual Six isn't a Cylon. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:55, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
:: I agree that it is a virtual being (or the virtual being as it has not been disproved that they are different, and when questioned on it the subject it was deflected, possibly the Cylon God). My reasoning for this is that every encounter with one has moved the story on often with a purpose (e.g. Baltar's Six being pissed at him for comforting Gina then telling him “God will not forgive this sin”, Caprica's Baltar for telling her to find the humans and then Baltar's Six telling him it is the reckoning when the ships land on New Caprica). In this case it forced Romo to be pissed at the loss of his cat and force Lee to take up the mantle of President and help the truce to occur. [[User:Chris etd|Chris etd]] 03:27, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

== These Angels Making Life In This Galaxy Boringly Homogenous. ==

I slept on this, but my original impression after watching Daybreak Park # 2 is that these Angels make things boring:

They create pidgins, dogs, cats, foxes, people, oranges, tuna, et cetera. I would not be surprised if the Angels dropped a big rock on the dinosaurs just so they can have a clean slate for creating rats.

Once they create people, they make the people invent pianos, worship Zeus, Yahweh, Thor, et cetera. They make the people play “All Along The Watchtower”. They see to it that the people create Cylons.

We are not descended from apes, but from # 8s — a little wordplay because 8 and ape sound similar. the mitochondrial DNA of the # 8s is so similar to that of Homo '' neanderthalensis '' that we apparently have a common ancestor, Homo '' heidelbergensis '' half a million years ago even though that is impossible.

If we explore the Galaxy, will only find humans and cylons. ¿What is the point? ¿Why bother exploring?

Arthur C. Clarke in '' 2001 '' had a similar idea of lonely aliens helping intelligent life evolve, but the beings did not care about the final form. In other words, diversity is the rule in '' 2001. ''

We still do not know the nature of these Angels other than that Starbuck seems to be one of them

I do not know how this fits into the article, but it fits into the article somehow. I figure that I should but this on the talkpages for '' Virtual Beings '' and '' Daybreak # 2. ''

Talk:Grace Park/Archive 1

2009-03-12T08:45:56Z

Walabio: The glass-eye is a joke.

==Stuff thats wrong==
*The birthday is probably wrong [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Grace_Park_(actress)#Grace_Park.27s_age]. [http://www.graceparknews.com/bio.html] says April 8th 1980. imdb and tv.com say march 6 but that is the same day as the golfer Grace Park's birthday. What are the odds? It's prolly a mix up. Maybe it should be removed until someone can prove it.
*everything else was fixed by steelviper
--[[User:Bp|Bp]] 16:39, 21 March 2006 (CST)
**I have read in interviews that Grace Park and Katee Sackhoff have the same birthday, but I don't know what the date was. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 23:29, 21 March 2006 (CST)
:::So april 8th then. imdb and tv.com are wrong. same year tho? btw: april 8th is my birthday too. strange. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 02:12, 22 March 2006 (CST)
:::: On June 5, 2006, Bradley Thompson heard Grace state that her birthdate is March 14, 1974. [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 18:10, 14 June 2006 (CDT)
:::::Thanks. I've placed your post on [[Sources:Grace Park]] --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:42, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

== Glas eye ==

I found an interview about "Command & Conquer 3" that states that Grace Park has a glas eye:

"...JK: I was in charge of Tricia Helfer's hair and makeup. And I polished her boots between takes. I was not, however, flown to Hawaii to assist on Josh Holloway's shoot. Apparently, they let just anyone polish his boots. Grace Park has a glass eye (not a lot of people know that), and it was my job to make sure it was pointing in the right direction when she spoke directly into the camera. There's nothing more disconcerting to an experienced gamer than to get a briefing from an actor with a wonky eye!..."

[http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/commandconquer3/news.html?sid=6166007 Gamespot Interview with Joe Kucan]

: The interview is tongue-in-cheek.

: [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 08:45, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Islanded in a Stream of Stars/Archive 1

2009-03-08T08:29:26Z

Walabio: The bands of Jupiter are like a barcode.

{{newsection link}}

==Title==
''Islanded in a Stream of Stars'' [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/09/battlestar-galactica-cruise-book.html according to producer Mark Verheiden].

No idea if this is supposed to be 'Islanded' or 'Island' or 'Landed' or 'I Landed'. Definitely a weird title.--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 19:37, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

:Ah, the title comes from a poem by Henry Beston :-) That explains that then.--[[User:Werthead|Werthead]] 12:18, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

== Jupiter and Callisto ==

*I believe that Boomer and Hera just jumped next to Callisto with Jupiter in the background at 15 minutes.
[[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 03:20, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

**It is just a common Gas Giant. Real life planet search for the past 13 years for extra-Solar System worlds have revealed that the galaxy is full of Gas Giants. It is finding th Earth type planets that is hard so far with present technology. [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 07:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

*** I disagree. Jupiter has distinctive cloud-bands. These are like finger-prints. Neither Ragnar nor the planet where the Rebel Basestar after the first battle of the Cylon Civil War limped looked anything like planets in our Solar System.

*** Also, the moon in the foreground looked just like Callisto Granted Callisto is much less distinct than Jupiter but the 2 of them together add weight to the argument.

*** It seems that the fleet is still near Sol. Boomer, on her way back to the 1s, 4s, and 5s with Hera did not just travel near Sol, nor just through the Solar System, but near Jupiter.

*** [[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 08:29, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

== Old-style Cylon-Raiders ==

The facility whither boomer took Hera has both old-style and new-style Cylon-Raiders.

[[User:Walabio|Walabio]] 08:02, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

== Are we not dividing the episode summaries in to acts? Bit late to change? ==

*For about the past two seasons the summaries were divided into Teaser, Act I, Act 2, Act 3 and Act 4 are we switching up again, because if we are switching up again it will make it inconsistent with all the episodes over the past two seasons. I also don't like it because it comes in the last three episodes. Why change now? [[User:Hunter2005|Hunter2005]] 06:34, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

== Starbucks photo ==

The article states ""Starbuck puts a photo of herself on the memorial wall of the dead. "". Can anyone recall from (previous episodes when she returned from the dead) whether she previously tore it down? maybe she did not put it up, but was just momentarily holding it. [[User:Xlynx|xlynx]] 07:43, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

== Baltar's test ==
IMO the analysis section should mention that baltar's tests did not prove that the corpse is the original Kara. All the tests really prove are that "Sometimes a Great Notion Kara" is made of dead tissue genetically identical to "original Kara" (we've known that "Crossroads Kara" matched "original Kara" since [[He That Believeth In Me]]), and that neither "Crossroads Kara" nor "SaGN Kara" is a significant seven type Cylon (we still don't know if Baltar's tests work on final five type cylons). From a narrative perspective, it would be anticlimactic if the corpse on Earth turned out to be a hoax, however the possibility has not yet been ruled out by aired episodes. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 08:14, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Islanded in a Stream of Stars/Archive 1

2009-03-07T08:02:38Z

Walabio: /* Old-style Cylon-Raiders */ new section

Talk:Islanded in a Stream of Stars/Archive 1

2009-03-07T03:20:59Z

Walabio: /* Jupiter and Callisto */ new section

Someone to Watch Over Me

2009-03-05T04:50:49Z

Walabio: Corrected minor error Larger >-> smaller

{{Episode Data
| image=SomeoneWatchingOverMe.jpg
| title= Someone To Watch Over Me
| season= 4
| episode=17
| guests=
| writer= [[Bradley Thompson]] [[David Weddle]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Nankin]]
| production=419
| rating=1,657,000 viewers (Live+SD)<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/03/wwe-raw-the-closer-and-president-obama-lead-cable-viewing/13835|title=WWE RAW, The Closer and President Obama lead cable viewing|date=03 March 2009|accessdate=04 March 2009|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>
| US airdate=February 27, 2009
| CAN airdate=February 27, 2009
| UK airdate=March 3, 2009
| dvd=
| population=39556
| oldpopulation=39556
| prev=[[Deadlock]]
| next=[[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] discovers a hidden musical ability that bears a mysterious significance to the final five Cylons, and her tune is found to have a connection with three-year-old human-Cylon hybrid [[Hera Agathon|Hera]]. The president authorizes [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]'s extradition from the brig so she can stand trial for treason on the Cylon baseship.''<ref>http://www.locatetv.com/tv/battlestar-galactica/season-4/6118356</ref>

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===
* [[Kara Thrace]] gets out of her bunk and opens her locker. Looking in the mirror, she momentarily sees the image of her own corpse found on [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]] in the reflection. Disturbed, Kara takes out the bloodstained dog tags recovered from the corpse and stares at them, silently brooding to herself.
* Kara goes through her daily routine - showering, dressing, giving the Cylon and Colonial pilots their assignments, doing paperwork, and drinking at the bar.
* [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]] is still searching for a habitable planet. ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' is now experiencing frequent power losses and plumbing disruptions due to the ongoing repair work.
* [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] informs [[Admiral Adama]], [[Lee Adama]], and [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] that the repairs and the Cylon organic substance will buy the ship a few more jumps, but not many. The admiral states that he isn't ready to give up just yet.
* Lee congratulates Sonja, a [[Number Six]] model, on her appointment as the Cylons' representative to the newly-formed Quorum of Ships' Captains.
* Sonja makes a formal request that Boomer be returned to the Cylons. When Adama starts to protest that Boomer tried to kill him, Sonja explains that they don't want Boomer set free. They want to try Boomer for treason, as she sided with [[Cavil]] in the [[Cylon Civil War]].
* When Lee asks what will happen to Boomer if she's convicted, Sonja says that with the loss of their ability to resurrect, the Cylons can now implement capital punishment.
* Tyrol realizes what this means: They're going to kill Boomer.

=== Act 1 ===

=== Act 2 ===

=== Act 3 ===

=== Act 4 ===

== Notes ==
* [[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]] do not appear in this episode. As with the previous episode, [[Lee Adama]] appears in only a couple of scenes.
* "[[Wikipedia:Someone to Watch Over Me (song)|Someone To Watch Over Me]]" is the name of a song composed by [[Wikipedia:George Gershwin|George]] and [[Wikipedia:Ira Gershwin|Ira Gershwin]], and featured in the musical [[Wikipedia:Oh, Kay!|''Oh, Kay!'']] A major theme of the song is the need to find love and acceptance, something [[Sharon Valerii]], [[Galen Tyrol]] and [[Kara Thrace]] are all seeking in their own ways.
** There was also an episode of [[w:Star Trek: Voyager|Star Trek: Voyager]] named for the song, in which it is performed at the end by The Doctor.
* Weeks have passed since the end of [[Gaeta's Mutiny|the mutiny]], as evidenced by [[Cottle]]'s comment about how long Anders' EKG readings have remained steady, and Starbuck's comment about how long she has repeated the same mission briefing.
* Starbuck acknowledges, in her address to the other pilots, that the mutiny has "thinned our numbers". This, combined with the apparent absence of pilots such as [[Margaret Edmonson]] and [[Diana Seelix]], confirms their involvement in the mutiny did not go unpunished, although exactly what that punishment is remains unknown.
** In the Podcast for "[[Deadlock]]" RDM states that all the mutineers were imprisoned on the [[Astral Queen]].
* After her apparent death in "[[Maelstrom]]", Kara's personal belongings were auctioned off. Helo has managed to get them all back for her. However, the only thing Kara is interested in is the tape of her father's music.
* Some of the music played by the mysterious piano player is from the original series. [[Numian's 3rd Sonata]], Second Movement, is in fact from the opening dialogue of the classic series ("There are those who believe that life here, began out there..."), and the original [[Cylon]] musical cue is derived from that tune as well. This is not the first time music from the original series has shown up (i.e. the [[Colonial Anthem]]), and lends to the idea that everything 'has happened before, and will happen again'.
* The brand of "[[The_Twelve_Colonies_%28RDM%29#Tauron|Tauron]] toothpaste" offered as a prize to the pilots is called "[[Felgercarb]]," a word used in the original series to mean "shit." Tauron comes from Taurus the bull. In essence, Kara is offering the pilot who finds a new planet "bullshittoothpaste".
* The collection of named [[Number Six]] models expands with the addition of [[Sonja]], who becomes the first Cylon to be elected to the Fleet's reconstituted Quorum.
*When Tyrol visits and talks to Boomer for the first time in the Brig, during the conversation Boomer calls Tyrol "Galen" for the first time, at least publicly and on screen. In past episodes, both Boomer and Athena usually referred to their significant others with their callsigns/titles. For Athena, it was always referring to Agathon as Helo. For Boomer, it was always referring to Tyrol as Chief. Athena was the first of the two to break that tradition, noticeable after the two married. Boomer's shared projection with Tyrol and their imaginary marriage may be the reason why she ceased calling him solely "Chief."

== Analysis ==
===Galactica's condition ===
*FTL jumps appear to create spatial distortions that can seriously strain a ships hull. Although bad hull damage does not necessarily prevent a ship from jumping (as has been seen many times before in the seasons, for example ''Pegasus'' - which jumped after being hit by three nuclear missiles in [[The Captain's Hand]]) the threat to ''Galactica'' has been compounded by the added riddling of the entire aged superstructure with microfractures. Tigh expresses concern that a jump within the flight pod will seriously strain the internal integrity of the ship. Boomer's FTL jump does eventually appear to cause a chain reaction of hull collapses along ''Galactica's'' port side, a side visibly weakened by Cylon attack, and suffering general aging in the 50+ year old ship's structure.
*The port side of ''Galactica'' which suffers damage in this episode has been seen specifically to suffer major stress before now- particularly during the [[Battle of New Caprica]] when it was mentioned that explosive decompressions were imminent in that section. That side of the ship also saw the port water tank blow out in [[Water]]-as well as damage from a nuclear explosion incurred during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] though these seemed to be repaired it no doubt contributed to the area's hull fatigue.
* Many individuals express fears of the damage an FTL jump can do to ''Galactica'', implying FTL jumps place serious strains on a ships hull–or even the hull of a ship nearby and a degree of hull integrity is important to allow a ship to continue jumping for continued periods. This appears quite a new phenomenon in the canon of the show and was not mentioned in previous seasons, though it of course makes for a convenient plot conceit now. Before this ships have frequently been seen jumping and exiting a jump close to each other in the series with seemingly no ill effects- though it is possible Boomer's Raptor was much closer to Galactica's hull than has ever been seen before. In the episode [[A Disquiet Follows My Soul]] the tylium ship jumped whilst surrounded by Raptors and Vipers and no ship seemed to suffer damage, although they were knocked back and sent tumbling. It should be made clear that smaller objects are proportionally stronger and that smaller objects should feel much less shear in the wash of another nearby ship jumping. It is also possible the stress of by being caught in the FTL field of another vessel rather than that caused by a vessels own, properly configured FTL drive is more powerful and dangerous.
*Given that ''Galactica'' has jumped hundreds of times whilst damaged before now, it is not explained why no damage has occurred before given it is assumed damage will be guaranteed by an unplanned jump in this episode. In the miniseries ''Galactica'' suffered a nuke hit and yet jumped several times later. Also despite falling through the atmosphere of New Caprica ''Galactica'' was able to execute an FTL jump despite the severe strains on the hull. Fears of FTL stress were not mentioned.
** ''Galactica'' has probably been taking damage over the years from multiple jumps and suffering combat damage. It's just that the extent of the damage has not become apparent until now.
** It is in part because of those actions, the atomic strikes and it jumping and falling though into a planet's gravity well and its atmosphere is why ''Galactic''a is suffering from massive metal fatigue, in addition to normal wear and tear of a 50+ year old ship and the fact that she hasn't had a major or even minor overhaul in years even before the the attack on the Colonies has taken their toll. In addition as discovered by Chief Tyrol the builders of ''Galactica'' "cut corners" with the building specifications of the ship. Ironically, if the ''Galactica'' was able to retire on schedule these issues of "substandard" construction wouldn't had come up.
** Further to the point above about small craft being subject to less 'shear', it stands to reason that the size of the disturbance created by a ship executing a jump might be proportional to the size of the ship itself. A large vessel such as the tylium ship may create a widespread but relatively smooth disturbance, so the nearby Raptors would have been like corks bobbing as a wave passed. Conversely, a small vessel such as a Raptor might create a localised but very sharp distortion that poses more risk of damage to a large ship close to it.
*The age of ''Galactica'''s FTL drive might explain why the ship's hull integrity is taxed so badly by her FTL drive - more modern drives might not cause so much stress, and might explain why other Fleet ships and the rebel basestar can continue to jump despite the damage their hulls have taken.
* ''Galactica'' is in very bad shape from the metal fatigue in the hull. It's so bad that Tyrol says that all the [[Cylon organic resin]] could do is buy a little more time, but not too much from the looks of it, and that the ship might only be capable of a few more FTL jumps, if that. The ship is dying of old age and abuse and there's nothing anyone can do save it completely. The damage Boomer created during her escape has no doubt worsened the ship's condition.

===The actions of Boomer===
* Adama has still not forgiven Boomer for shooting him.
* Ellen's escape from Cavil seems to have been orchestrated between him and Boomer in order to get Boomer on ''Galactica'' so she could kidnap Hera according to Ellen's speculation to her husband Saul Tigh.
* It would appear that while Cavil was willing to let Ellen go in order to obtain Hera, members of the [[Final Five]] are still of some value to him, as evidenced by Boomer's offer for Tyrol to go with her.
**It is more likely that Boomer genuinely wanted him to come with her because she truly loves him. Bringing him back to John Cavil-if that is where she is headed-would be of no use to him because as Ellen stated he would need all Five of the Finals to recreate Resurrection. In addition to her rekindled love, she has seen-or at least heard about-that it is possible for a Final Five Cylon to mate and have offspring with a "Standard Model" like herself even if Caprica-Six's pregnancy by Saul Tigh failed, so the possibility of a family which she shared with Tyrol in her projection, was open to her.
* Boomer has gone from being a conflicted sleeper agent to being a willing infiltrator and saboteur on ''Galactica''. With her rekindled love for Tyrol, she may be again conflicted.
* The Cylons want Boomer tried for treason, with execution being a possible outcome, because her actions are linked to the permanent deaths of thousands of Cylons when she sided against her model in the [[Cylon Civil War]]. This parallels the Colonial Fleet's own desire to try [[Gaius Baltar]] for siding against humanity and collaborating with the Cylons on New Caprica.

*It is very possible-but not certain-that the Cylon ability to recognize individual Cylons despite them looking exactly like each other (most of the time, the Sixes seem to have the most variants in hair color and use of makeup, both voluntary actions) relies on actually looking at the individual. In the lavatory where Sharon "Boomer" Valerii severely beats Sharon "Athena" Agathon, Athena initially mistook Boomer as a generic Eight when she saw her in the reflection of a mirror. It was after she stood up, turned around and looked directly at Boomer did Athena recognize her as Boomer. Admittedly however, it is possible that she would had recognized Boomer if she still only watched her in the reflection. Still, she said a full sentence while she looked at her in the mirror-"Great, I hope you are here to fix the frakkin' shower!"-but instantly recognized Boomer the exact moment she saw her directly and not reflected. Perhaps they also need to look the other Cylon square in the eyes, which is what Tyrol does in "[[Deadlock]]" before identifying Boomer.
**Helo did notice that Boomer did smell different. Boomer covered for this saying she found some soap.
***Helo said she smell good not different an she was washing her hands at the time. However there is a relevance to Helo mentioning her smell. In a scene from [[Litmus]] Tyrol and Boomer were in bed together shortly after engaging in intercourse. He said to her: "Sometimes at work I try to conjure up what your face looks like...Curve of your lips.....The way your hair falls. How you smell." Helo as just noted told Boomer she smelled good just before they had sex.
* Boomer has sex with [[Helo]] by pretending to be [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] after he mistook her for his wife and he insisted after she tried to leave, but then enthusiastically let him believe she was Athena and willingly had sex with him. This is ironic, as Athena originally seduced Helo on [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]], by pretending to be Boomer.
** Boomer's willness to have sex with Agathon - in the presence of Athena - was motivated by a desire to exact revenge on Athena for having effectively taken over her old life on ''Galactica'' according to the show writers.
***Though she initially hesitated, a knowing glance to the corner where Athena was hidden, is the clue to her decision to defile Athena's relationship with Helo.

===Starbuck's role===
* The mysterious piano player is [[Dreilide Thrace|Kara's father]], which can be concluded by his sudden disappearance and by the flashbacks with both Kara and her father playing the piano when she was little. These flashbacks mirror the exact same movements done by Captain Thrace and the piano player.<ref>http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=1598</ref>
* The title of the tape Kara receives back from Helo is "Dreilide Thrace Live at the Helice Opera House."
** [[w:Helice|Helice]], also spelled Helike, was an ancient Greek city which sank into the Corinthian Gulf in 373 B.C. It may have formed the basis of the myth of the lost city [[w:Atlantis|Atlantis]].<ref>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helice</ref><ref>http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/helike.shtml</ref>
** Helice was the ancient Greek name <ref>http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/620003/Ursa-Major</ref> for the constellation [[w:Ursa Major|Ursa Major]] (the Great Bear). Helice in Greek means "to spin" or "to turn"; it is the root of the modern word helix. Ursa Major revolves around [[w:Polaris|Polaris]], the Pole Star, hence the name. This may be a reference to the spinning of the [[maelstrom]] Kara flew into before her ship was destroyed, and it could also refer to the [[mandala]] found on the wall of her apartment and the [[Temple of Five]].
** [[w:Helike_(mythology)|Helice/Helike]] was also the name of a nymph in Greek mythology who nursed the infant [[Zeus]], along with another nymph, Melissa (which name itself means "honey" or "honey bee"). <ref>http://www.constellationsofwords.com/Constellations/UrsaMajor.html</ref>
** [[w:Helike_(moon)|Helike]] is also a newly-discovered moon of [[w:Jupiter|Jupiter]].
** However, the appearance of the word Helice in the show may simply be a tongue-in-cheek reference to [[Bear McCreary]]'s heavy involvement with this episode -- Ursa Major, and McCreary, both being "The Great Bear."<ref>http://tvbacon.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/battlestar-galactica-someone-to-watch-over-me-live-at-the-helice-opera-house/</ref>
*It is possible that Starbuck also has the ability of Projection and she projected the Piano Player beside her when she played a section of "All Along the Watchtower" from the drawing Hera made, which turned out to be musical notation. She, from her POV, was playing a long side of him but when Saul Tigh, Ellen Tigh, and Tory Foster confronted her about where she learned to play that music he was gone. Perhaps it was just standard human daydreaming, or a [[Virtual beings|Virtual being]], but it could had been projection.

===Tyrol and the other Finals===
*The Final Five have the same [[Projection|projection]] ability as the Cylons they created. Cylons can share projections.
* Projections can include not just imaginary environments but also imaginary people, such as Boomer and Tyrol's "daughter" Dionne.
* It also appears that projections might be a form of persistent environment -- similar to real-life virtual worlds such as [[w:Second Life|Second Life]], as Tyrol re-enters Boomer's projection after she escapes with Hera, as if expecting to find her and Dionne still in there.
* The Final Five, [[Hera Agathon]], and [[Kara Thrace]] are all somehow connected to each other by [[The Music]]. Also possibly connected via the song is Kara's [[Dreilide Thrace|mysterious father]].
*Both the Agathons and Tyrol suffer the lost of a daughter: Hera and Tyrol's imaginary daughter from his and Boomer's shared projection; both taken by Boomer. Hera actually, Tyrol's symbolically in Tyrol's solo projection. Both Athena and Tyrol suffer great grief and display it: Athena's primal howls and beating her arm against Helo's back in rage/despair; Tyrol's sinking to his knees and burying his head in his arms in his child's empty room in his projection. Helo initially took the situation stoically but in the previews for the next episode [[Islanded In a Stream of Stars]], it appears the emotional toll over the loss of his daughter is telling on Helo when Adama, presumably taking about Hera, says-uncharacteristically-"get over it" to a disheveled Helo.

===The status of Cylons in the Fleet===
* The Cylons seem to have officially joined the Fleet as they now have the representation they wanted on the new Quorum in the form of a Six named Sonja. It is also confirmed that Cylon and Colonial pilots are performing joint [[CAP]]s.
** This is most clearly seen when Athena staggers into the briefing room and Helo orders one of the Sixes to go get the medics, the Six unhesitatingly responds "Yes, Sir". Several Sixes are also seen attending Starbuck's "toothpaste briefing." At the toothpaste briefing, Starbuck states that "Six has the color assignments and recognition codes," (not, for instance, "''This'' Six..." or "The Six in the front row..."), and the Six in question casually raises her hand for the pilots behind her to see.
** The rebel Cylon pilots do not appear to have been commissioned into the Colonial military, as they wear Cylon flight suits and none is addressed by rank.
** The Sixes and Eights appear to use their model numbers as surnames, and are referred to and addressed as "Six" or "Eight". They do not yet appear to have been given individual call-signs.
* Despite integrating allied flight command (at least among manned Heavy Raiders), being represented in the Quorum, and subordinating their Basestar weapons control to President Roslin ("[[Blood on the Scales]]"), the Rebel Cylons have retained some sovereignty and are thus entitled to extradite Sharon "Boomer" Valerii and try her for treason under Cylon law.
* Cylon law does not prohibit punishments to be enacted ''ex post facto''. Sonja Six explains that a death penalty provision would have been meaningless prior to the destruction of the hub, yet they intend to execute Boomer if she is found guilty for the treason she is accused of committing prior to the hub's destruction.

===Miscellaneous===
* It has been unclear whether Karl Agathon is still the [[Commander Air Group]] (CAG) of Galactica or Kara Thrace officially takes over the CAG as Agathon used to join important staff meetings with Adama & Tigh in previous episodes. However, this episode clearly shows that Thrace is now serving as the CAG of Galactica.

== Questions ==
===Galactica's condition ===
*If jumping in very close proximity to a ship is a very dangerous thing to do then why then in [[A Disquiet Follows My Soul]] when the tylium ship [[Hitei Kan]] jumped away form the intercepting and boarding Vipers nothing happened to them other than being upended?
** It was dangerous for ''Galactica'' because of its failing structure.
** Also, as noted above, the spatial distortion caused by the Raptor's jump, only reaching part of Galactica, would cause much more shearing force and therefore much more stress on the structure. Since the Raptors in "A Disquiet Follows My Soul" are much smaller than the tylium ship, they were pretty much 'bounced' off the spatial rift
* With the ''Galactica'' in the shape she is in now, how are the civilian ships holding up? Are they in a similar condition? Could this explain why there is only 35 ships mentioned remaining in the fleet?
**Very likely much better since they don't take battle damage and generally don't maneuver wildly to attack or evade. However, yes they have been in space constantly for four years likely past several mandatory maintenance checks and overhauls, both minor and major. Still, most of the civilian ships would be in much better shape than ''Galactica'' because they run and don't stand and fight and take hits and many of them are newer than ''Galactica''.
** If 35 is indeed the correct number of ships in the Fleet, then nearly half the Fleet's ships have been lost. Given that few have been seen to be lost on screen, the majority of these losses probably occurred during the rapid evacuation of the settlement of New Caprica. Many ships would have either have been destroyed trying to flee, or left on the planet's surface. Outside of that, several ships might have been abandoned off screen due to deteriorating conditions- presumably after being stripped for parts with the civilians moved to other ships or ''Galactica'' herself.
***The 35 ships mentioned in [[Blood on the Scales]] may have only been the number of ships that had initially sided with Gaeta and Zarek, rather than the total number of ships in the fleet (See the Analysis section of Blood on the Scales).
* Is Galactica the "Dying Leader" from the Pythian Prophecy.

===The actions of Boomer===
* Is Boomer taking Hera to Cavil, and if so, is she of value to him in and of herself or will he ransom her for the Final Five to rebuild [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]]? Or is Boomer working alone or for a third party? ([[Someone to Watch Over Me#Official Statements|Answer]])
* What was the note Boomer was writing down in her cell when she first sensed Tyrol watching her?
* Did Boomer sleep with Helo merely to maintain her pretense, because she was attracted to him, or to intentionally hurt Athena? ([[Someone to Watch Over Me#Official Statements|Answer]])
* Did Boomer intentionally jump so close to ''Galactica'' in order to further damage the already weakened ship? Is this a prelude to an attack on the Fleet by Cavil's forces?
* Since Boomer was able to find the fleet, why doesn't Cavil just jump in and attack the Fleet? Surely he has superior numbers. Is it merely because of fear of death, since they can no longer resurrect?
** Cavil seems to want Hera- this would only be possible by using Boomer as an infiltrator rather than attacking ''Galactica'' outright. Attacking the Fleet would only result in them jumping away anyway.
*** Also, Cavil probably doesn't want to risk accidentally killing the Final Five, who he needs to regain the ability to resurrect.
===Starbuck's role===
* What is the source of the "Slick" image Starbuck has been seeing? Is he her father? Is he a variation of Kara's Inner Leoben from "[[Maelstrom]]"?
* How did Starbuck and Hera arrive at a piano version of the same [[The Music|melody]] originally played by Anders on a guitar on [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]?
* Could Kara be a reincarnation of the woman that Anders originally played the song for?
* Where did the piano in [[Joe's Bar]] come from?
* Will the Helice Opera House have any connection to the visions of the [[Opera House]] shared by Roslin, [[Caprica-Six]], and Athena?
**It is to note that in their shared vision both Athena and President Roslin are depicted running after Hera with Hera then being taken by Baltar and a Six perhaps Virtual Six. In the episode Hera is taken by Boomer. Roslin somehow without knowing what was going on in CIC or the hanger deck reacted to Boomer taking Hera by going into a trance like state and then collapsing the moment Boomer jumped. Presumably Athena is going to try to find Hera, chase her in effect as will presumably Roslin somehow. This all occurs when Starbuck finds the tape of her father performing live at the Helice Opera House . However, no analogous occurrences are known to have happened to Baltar and Caprica Six as Boomer was taking Hera, at least none that has been revealed.

===Tyrol and the other Finals===
* Is the Eight switched with Boomer by Tyrol dead, or merely injured?
** Probably merely injured. It is doubtful Tyrol would have gone so far as to actually kill another Eight to save Boomer. Furthermore, if the Eight had been dead, Tyrol's trickery would have been discovered more quickly.
* Will Tyrol's involvement in Boomer's escape be figured out? Will he confess?
** It will be difficult for him to deny involvement considering the presence of the unconscious Eight he substituted for Boomer in the brig.
***That assumes the Eight can identify him as the one that attacked her in the work area. It was coal pitch black dark when he knocked her out. Still, the circumstance of him being the one to restore power to the Cell Area and knowing how hard he pleaded for Boomer's life makes him a natural suspect. What could convict him beyond doubt is if people on the hanger deck remember him helping "Athena" - as everyone thought at the time - with that large very heavy equipment box. It is known that Cylons can tell each other apart on sight despite them being indistinguishable to humans (unless they change their outward appearence like hair style and color). If someone recalls Tyrol helping so-called "Athena" on the hanger deck that will be used as proof positive that Tyrol was complicit in her escape, Tyrol cannot plead truthful ignorance like Helo can when he thought Boomer was his wife and had sex with her.
* If Tyrol's treachery does come to light, how will others react? What would Athena do to him? Helo?
* If Tyrol had gone with Boomer, would Cavil have opened his brain as he threatened to do with Ellen?
* Is Anders' head being kept shaved and if so why? If, as Cottle suggests, it has been weeks since his operation, his hair should presumably be growing back. Perhaps it is to make it easier to monitor his unusual EEG traces.
*Generally Tory Foster's attitudes toward humans is more in line with Cavil than the Rebel Cylons. Given Tory's consistant anti human statements positions and actions is it possible that she has contacted the Cavil faction of the Cylons given her contempt for humanity and her desire to abandon them? This could be a possible way that Cavil located the Fleet if he indeed sent Boomer to kidnap Hera.
**Presumably with her full memories restored, Ellen Tigh would know where Earth is. After reaching Earth it would be logical for her to assume the fleet decided to charter the local region for habitable planets.
***This of course assumes that she would tell him knowing what he would do to the humans if he caught them. Perhaps it is likely that during her "escape" Ellen told Boomer where the fleet would likely be. Then after Boomer escaped with Hera back to Cavil she will tell him then where the fleet is and its condition. It is even possible that Boomer jumped as close to Galactica as she did knowing that it would damage her and likely prevent her from jumping to a new loacation after she left, fixing the fleet in place. That would mean that the fleet is now vulnerable to attack.

===The status of Cylons in the Fleet===
* Why was Sonja elected to represent the Cylons?
** The Sixes appear to be the most influential leaders within the rebel Cylon society, and posess the most individuality. [[Caprica-Six]] sowed the seeds of the [[Cylon Civil War]], Natalie led the revolt, and Sixes generally were in senior positions in the occupation government of [[New Caprica]].
**In addition, on a pure show production level, it probably was easier to use a "regular" actress for this small role instead of having the actor who plays Leoben to come in. The decision might have simply been a toss up between using either Cylon actress.
* Do all the ships in the Fleet - regardless of their relative crew and passenger size - get to send representatives to the new Quorum? (This is similar to the situation the Framers of the United States Constitution faced when trying to decide if state representation in Congress should be based on individual state population or restricted to the same number of representatives per state).
* To what extent are the semi-sentient Raiders and Centurions integrated into the Colonial or allied military force?
**Likely none in terms of an integrated force; that is they are still under the Humanoid Cylon's control in the Baseship. Only Cylon Heavy Raiders are holding joint operations with Colonial forces and they require a Cylon Humanoid pilot.
* Given their new mortality, desire to sustain their species, breeding difficulty, and integration with Colonial society (at least within the military and government sectors), are the rebel Cylons attempting (consciously or unconciously) to find human matches for themselves?

===Miscellaneous===
* What is Roslin's physical status?
* What connection is there between Roslin's collapse and Hera's kidnapping?
**Yes, there is one, that was made clear by the intercutting betwen Boomer's escape, CIC and her trance like state, culminating in her saying "Hera" right after Boomer jumped from ''Galactica''. The ''exact'' nature of is still unclear.
* Despite being rudely put down by Dr. Cottle, was the Eight at Anders's bedside giving a correct assessment on what Anders's brain was doing when she speculated "Well, maybe his brain is rebooting, reorganizing as it heals?"?
*Will the Eight's idea of plugging Anders into the [[datastream]] lead anywhere?
**In the previews for the next episode "[[Islanded In a Stream of Stars]]", Anders is depicted in either a Resurrection tank or a Hybrid's pool with his wife Kara Thrace by his side. He reaches up and grabs her wrist. Assuming this isn't a dream, projection, or some other false image, it looks like they will try out the Eight's suggestion.
*When Starbuck follows up her offer of Tauron toothpaste with the comment "Gods know most of you need it," is it merely a joke, or an indicator that ''all'' toothpaste stocks are running out? If so, this would mean that dental hygiene, a measure of basic physical health, is deteriorating.
*Why was Hera unable to differentiate between Boomer and Athena, despite having previously shown the ability to do so in the episode "[[Rapture]]"?
**If one watches that scene again, Boomer quickly greets Hera and then shoves a bottle from the table Hera was sitting at into Hera's mouth. She quickly maintains it there as she rushed out of the nursery.
***This is a very likely senerio. Boomer quickly scooped up Hera and shoved the sippy cup in her mouth to keep her silent. "Hera" does smile when she first sees "Boomer" but this is more likely that the real world intruded in the acting; that is the toddler actress Iliana Gomez-Martinez who plays "Hera" was glad to see [[Grace Park]], the actress who plays Boomer, Athena and all the other Eights.

== Official Statements ==
*Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune interviews David Weddle and Bradley Thompson<ref>http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-starbuck-boomer-someone-to-watch-over-me-.html</ref>:
**Boomer had a sick desire to strike out at Athena.
**Boomer's escape with Ellen was staged so that she could kidnap Hera. She intended to just use the Chief, but their interactions did awaken feelings she thought were dead.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Ellen Tigh, Saul Tigh, and Tory Foster are in Joe's bar. Saul is remarking at the state of someone they cared about:''

:Saul: Cottle was right, I should've never insisted on seeing him. His eyes were open! I wasn't ready for that. The little guy was looking right at me!

::''Saul was not talking about Anders (in a coma with his eyes open) but the body of his dead son Liam that was delivered stillborn after he died in utero but whose corpse he insisted on seeing.''

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[S. Cottle]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Roark Critchlow]] as [[Slick]]
* [[Iliana Gomez-Martinez]] as [[Hera Agathon]]
* [[Brad Dryborough]] as Lieutenant [[Louis Hoshi]]
* [[ Torrance Coombs]] as Lance Corporal [[C. Sellers]]
* [[Ivan Cermak]] as Corporal [[D. Wallace]]
* [[Curtis Caravaggio]] as [[Nathanson]]
* [[Cherilynn Fulbright]] as [[Dionne]]
* [[Patrick Gilmore]] as [[Rafferty]]
* [[Samantha Caine]] as Off-duty Crew Person
* [[Erika-Shaye Gair]] as Young [[Kara Thrace]]
* [[Darcy Laurie]] as [[Dealino]]
* [[Sonja Bennett]] as Specialist [[Marcie Brasko]]
* [[David Weddle]] as Smoking man in [[Joe's bar]] (uncredited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]

Someone to Watch Over Me

2009-03-02T01:48:30Z

Walabio: What Tauron means and a little bit about physics

{{Episode Data
| image=SomeoneWatchingOverMe.jpg
| title= Someone To Watch Over Me
| season= 4
| episode=17
| guests=
| writer=
| story=
| director=
| production=419
| rating=
| US airdate=February 27, 2009 <ref>http://tv.ign.com/articles/920/920164p1.html</ref>
| CAN airdate=February 27, 2009
| UK airdate=March 3, 2009
| dvd=
| population=39556
| oldpopulation=39556
| prev=[[Deadlock]]
| next=[[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]
}}

== Overview ==
''[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] discovers a hidden musical ability that bears a mysterious significance to the final five Cylons, and her tune is found to have a connection with three-year-old human-Cylon hybrid [[Hera Agathon|Hera]]. The president authorizes [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]'s extradition from the Brig so she can stand trial for treason on the Cylon Base Ship.''<ref>http://www.locatetv.com/tv/battlestar-galactica/season-4/6118356</ref>

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===

=== Act 1 ===

=== Act 2 ===

=== Act 3 ===

=== Act 4 ===

== Notes ==
* [[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]] do not appear in this episode. As with the previous episode, [[Lee Adama]] appears in only a couple of scenes.
* "Someone To Watch Over Me" is the name of a song composed by George and Ira Gershwin, and featured in the musical Oh, Kay! A major theme of the song is the need to find love and acceptance.
** There was also an episode of [[w:Star Trek: Voyager|Star Trek: Voyager]] named for the song, in which it is performed at the end by The Doctor.
* Weeks have passed since the end of [[Gaeta's Mutiny|the mutiny]], as evidenced by [[Cottle]]'s comment about how long Anders' EKG readings have remained steady, and Starbuck's comment about how long she has repeated the same mission briefing.
* Starbuck acknowledges her pilots that the mutiny has "thinned our numbers". This, combined with the apparent absence of pilots such as [[Margaret Edmonson]] and [[Diana Seelix]], confirms their involvement in the mutiny did not go unpunished, although exactly what that punishment is remains unknown.
** In the Podcast for "[[Deadlock]]" RDM states that all the mutineers were imprisoned on the [[Astral Queen]].
* After her apparent death in "[[Maelstrom]]", Kara's personal belongings were auctioned off. Helo has managed to get them all back for her. However, the only thing Kara is interested in is her father's music tape.
* Some of the music played by the mysterious piano player is from the original series. [[Numian's 3rd Sonata]], Second Movement, is in fact from the opening dialogue of the classic series ("There are those who believe that life here, began out there..."), and the original [[Cylon]] musical cue is derived from that tune as well. This is not the first time music from the original series has shown up (i.e. the [[Colonial Anthem]]), and lends to the idea that 'everything has happened before, and will happen again'.
* The brand of "[[Tauron]] toothpaste" offered as a prize to the pilots is called "[[Felgercarb]]," a word used in the original series to mean "shit." Tauron comes from Taurus the bull. In essence, Kara is offering the pilot who finds a new planet "bullshittoothpaste".
* The collection of named [[Number Six]] models expands with the addition of [[Sonja]], who becomes the first Cylon to be elected to the Fleet's reconstituted Quorum.

== Analysis ==
* The Cylons seem to have officially joined the Fleet as they now have the representation they wanted on the new Quorum in the form of a Six named Sonja. It is also confirmed that Cylon and Colonial pilots are performing joint [[CAP]]s.
** This is most clearly seen when Athena staggers into the briefing room and Helo orders one of the Sixes to go get the medics, the Six unhesitatingly responds "Yes, Sir". Several Sixes are also seen attending Starbuck's "toothpaste briefing".
** The rebel Cylon pilots do not appear to have been commissioned into the Colonial military, as they wear Cylon flight suits and none is addressed by rank.
** The Sixes and Eights appear to use their model numbers as surnames, and are referred to and addressed as "Six" or "Eight". They do not yet appear to have been given individual call-signs.
*It is very possible-but not certain-that the Cylon ability to recognize individual Cylons despite them looking exactly like each other (most of the time, the Sixes seem to have the most variants in hair color and use of makeup, both voluntary actions) relies on actually looking at the individual. In the lavatory where Sharon "Boomer" Valerii severely beats Sharon "Athena" Agathon, Athena initially mistook Boomer as a generic Eight when she saw her in the reflection of a mirror. It was after she stood up, turned around and looked directly at Boomer did Athena recognize her as Boomer. Admittedly however, it is possible that she would had recognized Boomer if she still only watched her in the reflection. Still, she said a full sentence while she looked at her in the mirror-"Great, I hope you are here to fix the frakkin' shower!"-but instantly recognized Boomer the exact moment she saw her directly and not reflected. Perhaps they also need to look the other Cylon square in the eyes, which is what Tyrol does in "[[Deadlock]]" before identifying Boomer.
* It has been unclear whether Karl Agathon is still the [[Commander Air Group]] (CAG) of Galactica or Kara Thrace officially takes over the CAG as Agathon used to join important staff meetings with Adama & Tigh in previous episodes. However, this episode clearly shows that Thrace is now serving as the CAG of Galactica.
* Ellen's escape from Cavil seems to have been orchestrated between him and Boomer in order to get Boomer on ''Galactica'' so she could kidnap Hera.
* The clear liquid substance that Boomer, masquerading as Athena gave Hera in her sippy cup and urged her to drink up was likely a sedative to keep her quiet in the equipment box she hid her in.
* It would appear that while Cavil was willing to let Ellen go in order to obtain Hera, members of the [[Final Five]] are still of some value to him, as evidenced by Boomer's offer for Tyrol to go with her.
* The Final Five have the same [[Projection|projection]] ability as the Cylons they created. Cylons can share projections.
*It is possible that Starbuck also has this ability and she projected the Piano Player beside her when she played a section of "All Along the Watchtower" from the drawing Hera made, which turned out to be musical notation. She, from her POV, was playing a long side of him but when Saul Tigh, Ellen Tigh, and Tory Foster confronted her about where she learned to play that music he was gone. Perhaps it was just standard human daydreaming, or a [[Virtual beings|Virtual being]], but it could had been projection.
* Projections can include not just imaginary environments but also imaginary people, such as Boomer and Tyrol's "daughter" Dionne.
* It also appears that projections might be a form of persistent environment -- similar to real-life virtual worlds such as [[w:Second Life|Second Life]], as Tyrol re-enters Boomer's projection after she escapes with Hera, as if expecting to find her and Dionne still in there.
* ''Galactica'' is in very bad shape from the metal fatigue in the hull. It's so bad that Tyrol says that all the [[Cylon organic resin]] could do is buy a little more time, but not too much from the looks of it, and that the ship might only be capable of one more FTL jump, if that. The ship is dying of old age and abuse and there's nothing anyone can do save it completely. The damage Boomer created during her escape has no doubt worsened the ship's condition.
*FTL jumps appear to create spatial distortion that can seriously strain a ships hull. Tigh expresses concern that a jump within the flight pod will seriously strain the internal integrity of the ship. Boomer's FTL jump eventually appears to cause a chain reaction of hull collapses along ''Galactica's'' port side, a side visibly weakened by Cylon attack, and suffering general aging in the 50+ year old ship's structure.
*The port side of ''Galactica'' which suffers damage in this episode has been seen specifically to suffer major stress before now- particularly during the [[Battle of New Caprica]] when it was mentioned that explosive decompressions were imminent in that section. That side of the ship also saw the port water tank blow out in [[Water]]-and though this seemed to be repaired it no doubt contributed to the area's hull stress.
* Many individuals express fears of the damage an FTL jump can do to ''Galactica'', impying FTL jumps place serious strains on a ships hull–or even the hull of a ship nearby and a degree of hull integrity is important to allow a ship to continue jumping. This appears quite a new phenomenon in the canon of the show and was not mentioned in previous seasons, though it of course makes for a convenient plot conceit now. Before this ships have frequently been seen jumping and exiting a jump close to each other in the series with seemingly no ill effects- though it is possible Boomer's Raptor was much more closer to Galactica's hull than has ever been seen before. In the episode [[A Disquiet Follows My Soul]] the tylium ship jumped whilst surrounded by Raptors and Vipers and no ship seemed to suffer damage, although they were knocked back and sent tumbling. It should be made clear that smaller objects are proportionally stronger and that smaller objects should feel much less shear. Also some Fleet ships such as the [[Space Park]] and the Rebel basestar have been seen to suffer hull damage but have continued to jump with the Fleet seemingly without incident- though the Space Park was repaired quite swiftly. It is possible therefore that crucial to Galactica's particular suffering at Boomer's hands was the level of microfracturing that had been occurring in her hull combined with the fact that the port side of the ship looks significantly more damaged than the other. Also it is possible the stress of by being caught in the FTL field of another vessel rather than that caused by a vessels own, properly configured FTL drive is more powerful and dangerous.
*Given that ''Galactica'' has jumped hundreds of times whilst damaged before now, it is not explained why no damage has occurred before given it is assumed damage will be guaranteed by an unplanned jump in this episode. In the miniseries ''Galactica'' suffered a nuke hit and yet jumped several times afterwards. Also despite falling through the atmosphere of New Caprica ''Galatica'' was able to execute an FTL jump despite the severe strains on the hull. Fears of FTL stress were not mentioned.
** ''Galactica'' probably has been taking damage from multiple jumps over the years. It's just that the extent of that damage has not become apparent until now.
*The age of ''Galactica's'' FTL drive might explain why the ship's hull integrity is taxed so badly by her FTL drive - more modern drives might not cause so much stress, and might explain why other Fleet ships and the rebel basestar can continue to jump despite the damage their hulls have taken.
* Adama has still not forgiven Boomer for shooting him.
* Boomer has gone from being a conflicted sleeper agent to being a willing infiltrator and saboteur on ''Galactica''.
* The Cylons want Boomer tried for treason, with execution being a possible outcome, because her actions are linked to the permanent deaths of thousands of Cylons. This parallels the Colonial Fleet's own desire to try [[Gaius Baltar]].
* Boomer seduces [[Helo]] by pretending to be [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]]. This is ironic, as Athena originally seduced Helo on [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]], by pretending to be Boomer.
** Boomer's seduction of Helo - in the presence of Athena - may have been motivated by a desire to exact revenge on Athena for having effectively taken over her old life on ''Galactica''.
* The Final Five, [[Hera Agathon]], and [[Kara Thrace]] are all somehow connected to each other by [[The Music]]. Also possibly connected via the song is Kara's [[Dreilide Thrace|mysterious father]].
* The mysterious piano player is Kara's father, which can be concluded by his sudden disappearance and by the flashbacks with both Kara and her father playing the piano when she was little. These flashbacks mirror the exact same movements done by Captain Thrace and the piano player.<ref>http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=1598</ref>
* The title of the tape Kara receives back from Helo is "Dreilide Thrace Live at the Helice [[Opera House]]." Helice was the ancient Greek name <ref>http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/620003/Ursa-Major</ref> for the constellation [[w:Ursa Major|Ursa Major]] (the Great Bear). Helice in Greek means "to spin" or "to turn", and Ursa Major revolves around [[w:Polaris|Polaris]], the Pole Star. This may be a reference to the spinning of the [[maelstrom]] Kara flew into before her ship was destroyed, and it could also refer to the [[mandala]] found on the wall of her apartment and the [[Temple of Five]].
** Helice was also the name of a nymph in Greek mythology who nursed the infant [[Zeus]], along with another nymph, Melissa (which itself means "honey" or "honey bee". <ref>http://www.constellationsofwords.com/Constellations/UrsaMajor.html</ref> What, if any, reference this has to the series remains to be seen.
** However, it has been posited by one blog that this may be an in-joke to [[Bear McCreary]]'s heavy involvement with this episode -- Ursa Major, and McCreary, both being "The Great Bear."<ref>http://tvbacon.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/battlestar-galactica-someone-to-watch-over-me-live-at-the-helice-opera-house/</ref>

== Questions ==
* Is Boomer taking Hera to Cavil, and if so, is she of value to him in and of herself or will he ransom her for the Final Five to rebuild [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]]? Or is Boomer working alone or for a third party? ([[Someone to Watch Over Me#Official Statements|Answer]])
* What was the note Boomer was writing down in her cell when she first sensed Tyrol watching her?
* Is the Eight switched with Boomer by Tyrol dead, or merely injured?
** Probably merely injured. It is doubtful Tyrol would have gone so far as to actually kill another Eight to save Boomer. Furthermore, if the Eight had been dead, Tyrol's trickery would have been discovered more quickly.
* What is Roslin's physical status?
* What connection is there between Roslin's collapse and Hera's kidnapping?
* If Tyrol had gone with Boomer, would Cavil have opened his brain as he threatened to do with Ellen?
* Did Boomer sleep with Helo merely to maintain her pretense, because she was attracted to him, or to intentionally hurt Athena? ([[Someone to Watch Over Me#Official Statements|Answer]])
* What is the source of the "Slick" image Starbuck has been seeing? Is he a variation of Kara's Inner Leoben from "[[Maelstrom]]"?
* How did Starbuck and Hera arrive at a piano version of the same [[The Music|melody]] originally played by Anders on a guitar on [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]?
* Will Eight's idea of plugging Anders into the [[datastream]] lead anywhere?
* Will Tyrol's involvement in Boomer's escape be figured out? Will he confess?
** It will be difficult for him to deny involvement considering the presence of the unconscious Eight he substituted for Boomer in the brig.
***That assumes the Eight can identify him as the one that attacked her in the work area. It was coal pitch black dark when he knocked her out. Still, the circumstance of him being the one to restore power to the Cell Area and knowing how hard he pleaded for Boomer's life makes him a natural suspect. What could convict him beyond doubt is if people on the hanger deck remember him helping "Athena"-as everyone thought at the time-with that large very heavy equipment box. It is known that Cylons can tell each other apart on sight despite them being indistinguishable to humans. If someone recalls that it could be used as proof positive that Tyrol was complicit in her escape, that he cannot plead truthful ignorance like Helo can when he thought Boomer was his wife and had sex with her.
* If Tyrol's treachery does come to light, how will others react?
* Do all the ships in the Fleet - regardless of their relative crew and passenger size - get to send representatives to the new Quorum? (This is similar to the situation the Framers of the United States Constitution faced when trying to decide if state representation in Congress should be based on individual state population or restricted to the same number of representatives per state).
*If Jumping in very close proximity to a ship is a very dangerous thing to do then why then in [[A Disquiet Follows My Soul]] when the Tylium ship [[Hitei Kan]] jumped away form the intercepting and boarding Vipers nothing happened to them other than being upended?
** It was dangerous for ''Galactica'' because of its failing structure.
* Why was Sonja elected to represent the Cylons?
** The Sixes appear to be the most influential leaders within the rebel Cylon society, and posess the most individuality. Caprica Six sowed the seeds of the Cylon Civil War, Natalie led the revolt, and Sixes generally were in senior positions in the occupation government of New Caprica.
* Did Boomer intentionally jump so close to ''Galactica'' in order to further damage the already weakened ship? Is this a prelude to an attack on the Fleet by Cavil's forces?
* Since Boomer was able to find the fleet, why doesn't Cavil just jump in and attack the fleet? Surely he has superior numbers. Is it merely because of fear of death, since they can no longer resurrect?
** Cavil seems to want Hera- this would only be possible by using Boomer as an infiltrator rather than attacking ''Galactica'' outright. Attacking the Fleet would only result in them jumping away anyway.
* What is the current status of [[Caprica-Six]]?
* Where did the piano in [[Joe's Bar]] come from?
* Will the Helice Opera House have any connection to the visions of the [[Opera House]] shared by Roslin, [[Caprica-Six]], and Athena?
* Was a Daniel model Kara Thrace's father? Making her a half-cylon and giving her abilities like resurrection and projection?
* To what extent are the semi-sentient Raiders and Centurions integrated into the Colonial or allied military force?

== Official Statements ==
*Maureen Ryan of the Chicago Tribune interviews David Weddle and Bradley Thompson<ref>http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-starbuck-boomer-someone-to-watch-over-me-.html</ref>:
**Boomer had a sick desire to strike out at Athena.
**Boomer's escape with Ellen was staged so that she could kidnap Hera. She intended to just use the Chief, but their interactions did awaken feelings she thought were dead.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[S. Cottle]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Roark Critchlow]] as [[Slick]]
* [[Iliana Gomez-Martinez]] as [[Hera Agathon]]
* [[Brad Dryborough]] as Lieutenant [[Louis Hoshi]]
* [[ Torrance Coombs]] as Lance Corporal [[C. Sellers]]
* [[Ivan Cermak]] as Corporal [[D. Wallace]]
* [[Curtis Caravaggio]] as [[Nathanson]]
* [[Cherilynn Fulbright]] as [[Dionne]]
* [[Patrick Gilmore]] as [[Rafferty]]
* [[Samantha Caine]] as Off-duty Crew Person
* [[Erika-Shaye Gair]] as Young [[Kara Thrace]]
* [[Darcy Laurie]] as [[Dealino]]
* [[Sonja Bennett]] as Specialist [[Marcie Brasko]]
* [[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Henderson]] (archive footage)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

Talk:Faith/Archive 1

2008-05-10T04:48:13Z

Walabio: /* ¡Very intense! */ new section

== Writer and director source ==
The infobox says Michael Nankin has directed "Faith", and that Seamus Kevin Fahey has written it. What's our source for this? Also note that Edward James Olmos [http://www.galactica.tv/battlestar-galactica-2003---interviews/edward-james-olmos-galactica.tv-interview.html has said] he'd direct "episode six". Of course he could also be counting "Razor" as an episode and mean Into the West, or there could've been a change of plans... --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 13:01, 17 November 2007 (CST)
:Obviously the article where the story information comes from (footnote 2): http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2007/09/battlestar-ga-1.html --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:08, 17 November 2007 (CST)

== ¡Very intense! ==

This is at least one of the top 5 episode in the series. Unfortunately, this is not an Encyclopædic observation. One of us shall figure out how to summarize it properly.