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Gaius Baltar

2009-02-19T12:59:55Z

Tritium: /* Notes */ he was in a three way with 3 and 6 in season 3.

:''This page discusses the unwitting betrayer of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. For information on the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] character that intentionally betrays the [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)|Twelve Colonies of Man]], see [[Baltar (TOS)]]. For the comic book version of this character, see: [[Gaius Baltar (alternate)]].''

{{Character Data
|photo= Gaius Baltar.jpg
|colony= Born on [[Aerelon]], later moved to [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]]
|birthname= Gaius Baltar
|seen= Miniseries
|marital status= Single, with primary involvements with a [[Virtual beings|virtual Number Six]] and [[Caprica-Six]]
|role= Former President of [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|the Twelve Colonies]], former Fleet science advisor
|actor= [[James Callis]]
}}

Doctor '''Gaius Baltar''' is a brilliant scientist. Elegantly dressed and aesthetically handsome, with the affected humility of the truly arrogant, Baltar is a deeply flawed person and almost pathologically [[wikipedia:narcissism|narcissistic]]. Beneath his outstanding abilities lurks a dramatic weakness of character that leads humanity to disaster.

__TOC__

== Background ==

* Dr. Baltar is from [[The_Twelve_Colonies_%28RDM%29#Aerelon|Aerelon]]. He was born and raised on a dairy farm outside of the town of [[Cuffle's Breath Wash]]. Finding the local dialect to be unpleasant, starting at the age of ten he trained himself to speak without the [[Language_in_the_Twelve_Colonies#Aerelon_Accent|Aerelon accent]] in hopes that one day he might be considered as not coming from Aerelon. He left Aerelon after his 18th birthday turning his back on his family and his heritage.
* He was formerly a lead defense systems developer working for the [[Colonial Ministry of Defense]] and came to prominence as a computer technology designer, having won three [[Magnate Prize]]s.
* He networks with others well, and became personal friends with President [[Richard Adar]]. However, Baltar is extremely arrogant at times.
* Baltar becomes responsible for the design of the critical [[Command Navigation Program]] (CNP) used throughout the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]], but he could not fix its shortfalls and asked his assistant ([[Number Six]]) to fix almost half of the base code and when she wrote the code, she got it up to 95% efficiency but then she put in back doors to allow the [[Cylons]] to "shut-down" space craft fitted with the CNP.
* Baltar's scientific prowess seems strongest in the medical and biological fields ([[Epiphanies]]). As a result of his lesser (although still advanced) computer programming skills, he seeks the help (and as a byproduct, the affections of) a [[Caprica Six|young woman]] to aid him with the CNP.
* Baltar's two-year affair with the mysterious woman-- even to the extent of using code she herself wrote to overcome shortfalls in his CNP -- allowed her unrestricted access to some of the most sensitive systems of the Colonial defenses.
*Baltar's involvement with his blonde assistant does not stop him from dalliances with other women during this time, right up to when his assistant confronts Baltar and a lover in bed.

==Character History==

=== The Attack on the Twelve Colonies ===

* Baltar learns that his "corporate spy" lover is in fact a new type of Cylon -- a [[Humanoid Cylon|Cylon in human form]], able to mimic human beings down to the smallest detail, who altered his CNP with [[backdoor]]s to subvert any CNP-equipped ship.
[[image:Mini-Baltar_Six.jpg|thumb|left|300px|[[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six|Number Six]] kissing in the [[Miniseries]].]]
*Even though Baltar is appalled that it was his sexual folly that led to a holocaust, he is nevertheless determined to survive and keep this unintended treachery hidden. He only survives the following attack because the Cylon agent sacrifices herself to protect him from a nuclear blast.
* Baltar is rescued from [[Caprica]] following the forced-landing of a Colonial [[Raptor]] -- at the cost of [[Karl Agathon|one of the crew staying behind]] ([[Miniseries]])
* Baltar is plagued by visions of Number Six that only he can see and hear. He cannot be sure whether this is a result of his own guilt at his actions or whether -- as she initially claims -- she is part of a chip that has been implanted in his brain<ref name="chip">The idea that Six is an actual chip in Baltar's head was dismissed by Dr. [[Cottle]]'s image scan of Baltar's head. See [[Gaius Baltar#Speculation: The Real Baltar?|the section on alternate reasons for Six's existence]] for more.</ref>.
*Baltar is put to work trying to devise a means of detecting these humanoid Cylons. He luckily exposes [[Aaron Doral]] as a Cylon agent ([[Miniseries]]), using little more than invented [[technobabble]] to convince [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]].

=== Gaining trust ===

*Baltar eventually develops a genuine detector. This, together with his survival of a foiled attempt to expose him as a traitor ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]), firmly establishes his credentials within the Fleet's hierarchy.
*With this new-found trust, and despite his willingness to deliberately conceal vital information, such as [[Sharon Valerii]] true status as a [[Cylon agent]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]), Baltar enters the realm of political leadership, first as the Representative for [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]] on the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]], and then as the newly-elected Vice President of the Colonies ([[Colonial Day]]).
* The virtual Six continues to help and hinder Baltar, gradually drawing him to a point of near-open acceptance and participation in Cylon plans and activities ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Whether by coincidence or design, Six manipulates Baltar through repeated threats of exposing his involvement with the destruction of the Colonies ("[[33]],", "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]"), while also appearing to aid him by giving information that [[The Hand of God (RDM)|appears insightful or inspired]] to help the Colonials.
[[image:Scattered-Baltar_Six.jpg|thumb|[[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Number Six]] seeing "the shape of things to come" in "[[Scattered]]".]]

=== A greater purpose or insanity? ===

*Initially an atheist, Baltar is slowly converted to the Cylons' monotheistic faith: in "[[33]]" he repents his sins, in "[[Six Degrees of Separation]] "he prays to the Cylon God and devotes his life to serving his divine will, and in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]" he is led to believe that he is an instrument of God.
*Baltar is subjected to a final revelation of his role with the Cylons (as virtual Six sees it) when "the future" is revealed to him on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]], in the form of the first of "God's new generation of children" ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).
[[Image:Baltarixvalleydarkness.jpg|Number Six showing Baltar the clearing filled with human bones, telling him they were from human sacrifices.|thumb]]
* While stranded on Kobol after a crash landing, Baltar's virtual Six warns him that the Colonial religion is a falsehood to cover up atrocities of their nature.
*On Kobol, Baltar shoots [[Crashdown]] in the back, killing him instantly, to save [[Cally]] from a practically suicidal and unnecessary attack on a Cylon missile battery<ref>The act of killing Crashdown appears to have led to a dramatic change in Baltar's attitude toward hurting anyone directly. When Cally tries to blackmail him after they return from Kobol, Baltar is somewhat rough with her. When he visits Tyrol and Boomer in the brig, he does not hesitate to inject Tyrol with fatal drugs to blackmail Boomer into giving Cylon secrets. Baltar's humanitarian acts to the Six copy known as Gina also suggests Baltar's attitude in the care of Cylons is further changing. More and more, Baltar appears to prefer direct intervention and is less cowardly in his attitude.</ref>. The group are eventually rescued by the Raptors. Baltar tells the [[SAR]] team that Crashdown died a hero in the fight, and Chief Tyrol reluctantly corroborates his story ([[Fragged]]).
*Back on ''Galactica'', Cally blackmails Baltar into making it a priority to prove that Chief Tyrol is not a Cylon, as Colonel Tigh suspects, or Cally would reveal the truth of Crashdown's death.
* Incensed at this ingratitude, Baltar gambles that the [[brig|jailed]] Boomer knows of the number of Cylons in the Fleet, and blackmails her into doing so, using Tyrol's life.
[[image:brainscan.jpg|Baltar receives his brain scan from Dr. Cottle, as Six watches on in amusement.|thumb]]
*Questioning his own sanity after his virtual Six claims that he was generally crazy, Baltar has a brain scan performed in [[sickbay]] by Dr. [[Cottle]] which confirms no "foreign objects" are present in his head.
*Baltar is ready to believe that he is truly insane until he hears [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Sharon Valerii|Caprica-Sharon]] discuss Valerii's pregnancy with a Cylon/human hybrid child from his observation room. Six tells Baltar earlier that "their child" would be born in that cell, and this leads Baltar to realize that Six ''must'' be real because his subconscious couldn't have known that ([[Home, Part II]]). However, Hera is actually neither conceived, nor born in that specific cell. Instead, Virtual Six could actually be hinting at Tigh's and Caprica Six's future baby, that most likely ''is'' conceived in that particular cell.

=== Many talents ===

*When [[D'Anna Biers]] films a documentary about life aboard ''Galactica'', Six urges Baltar to give an interview to try to win people over to thinking that he should be running the Fleet. Baltar performs badly as he begins his interview but, fortunately, his interview is interrupted by a Cylon attack that Biers chooses to film instead ([[Final Cut]]).
*Baltar aids in trying to overcome the Cylon [[logic bomb]] which devastates ''Galactica's'' [[computers]]. Tigh's dislike of Baltar's involvement in this problem makes the scientist edgy enough to retort, "I'm sorry. Do you want to survive this one or not, Colonel?" ([[Flight of the Phoenix]])
[[image:baltargina.jpg|Baltar with Gina, the Cylon prisoner from ''Pegasus''.|thumb]]
*[[Helena Cain|Admiral Helena Cain]] requests that Baltar examine ''Pegasus' '' own Cylon prisoner to see what information he could glean from it. Baltar is horrified to discover the Cylon was a terribly abused and tortured copy of Number Six named "[[Gina]]". Baltar vows to help her and begins by having her restraints removed and bringing food to her ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).
*Over the course of his examination of Gina, he uncovers both her wish to die and the secret of the Cylon [[Resurrection Ship]]. He passes this information to Adama and Admiral Cain, who develop an [[Attack on the Resurrection Ship|operation to destroy it]] ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]).
*Baltar continues to spend time with Gina, eventually helping her escape from the brig. He tells Gina that he can hide her, and also that he loves her. Gina goes on to kill Cain and escapes from ''Pegasus'' through unexplained means ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).
*Torn between the "flesh and blood" copy of the [[Number Six]] copy, Gina, the demands of his internal Number Six, and his continuing attempt to cover his own multiple duplicities, Baltar becomes more aggressive and confrontational. With President Roslin's advice to abort the Cylon-hybrid fetus of the incarcerated [[Sharon Valerii]], Baltar reacts to defend it as if it were his own child. Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] admonishes Baltar, telling him that, on Roslin's death, he will become President and that he needs to behave like one.
*Desperate to save Valerii's fetus, Baltar reviews Dr. [[Cottle]]'s medical tests and performs experiments of his own, learning a striking revelation: the blood of the fetus can destroy cancer and repair its damage to human tissue.<ref name="stemcells">According to the writer's original planning, this was due to the presence of Cylon [[Wikipedia:stem cells|stem cells]] in the fetus's blood. This explanation was absent in the final shooting script.</ref> With Admiral Adama's permission, he injects the dying President Roslin with some of the fetal blood, which works miraculously, saving both Roslin and Valerii's child by circumstance ([[Epiphanies]]).
*Baltar keeps his [[Fumarella leaf|fumarella]] supply fresh by trading in the [[black market (organization)|black market]] through new ''Pegasus'' Commander [[Jack Fisk]]. Not realizing that Fisk had been murdered, the scientist visits Fisk's quarters, only to meet Captain [[Lee Adama]], who has started an investigation on the black market and Fisk's murder. Baltar truthfully tells Adama that he knows nothing of Fisk's murder, but Adama correctly deduces Baltar's association with Fisk and the black market since the "[[Caprican Imperial]]" fumarellos are a known favorite of Baltar's ([[Black Market]]).

=== Increasing political ambitions ===

*After saving Roslin's life, Baltar reads the letter given to him in the event of her death, in which she says he lacks compassion and asks him to open his heart if he becomes president. Furious, and goaded on by Six who tells him that Roslin doesn't trust him, Baltar delivers the nuclear warhead used for the Cylon detector to Gina and her militant "[[Demand Peace]]" movement.
*Baltar is also unaware that his involvement in the destruction of the Colonies is partially revealed. In ''Galactica's'' sickbay, Laura Roslin recalled those final days on Caprica, and remembered Baltar in the company of a [[Number Six|woman]] on Caprica who she knows now is a Cylon ([[Epiphanies]]).
*Baltar is summoned to ''[[Colonial One]]'', where Roslin offers him, without explanation, the chance to resign from the Vice Presidency to return to his studies. Baltar becomes immediately suspicious (and frightened) in Roslin's succinct and direct vote of no-confidence in her vice president. Realizing that the Vice Presidency now has greater importance (if nothing other than to save his own hide), Baltar turns down what Roslin calls a "one-time offer" to save himself as he saved Roslin on her deathbed ([[Black Market]]).

[[Image:Baltarlaydownburdensii.jpg|Gaius Baltar as President, from ''Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II''.|thumb]]
*Dr. Baltar decides (with no small influence from Six and [[Tom Zarek]]) to run for President in the coming Colonial Elections ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

=== New Caprica ===

*Roslin is declared the winner of the elections, but is caught by Adama for manipulating the tally. Baltar is declared president. While Baltar demands an investigation initially, he backs down under Adama's glare.
*President Baltar orders the Fleet to return to the marginally habitable planet [[New Caprica]] seconds after his inauguration. Baltar shows incompetency as president a few days later, when he orders the colonization of the planet. In an attempt to cover up his role in giving Gina the nuclear warhead used to detonate ''[[Cloud Nine]]'', Baltar orders Adama to stop any further investigation into the destruction of ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' and two other ships (he correctly guesses that the conflagration was started by [[Gina]]).
*During his first year in office, Baltar indulges in women, wallows in the incompetence of his administration, and is callously unsympathetic to the supply and resource problems plaguing the new colony, whose inhabitants continue to live in tents. The public, including the labor union lead by [[Galen Tyrol]], is notably displeased with his administration.
*380 days after Baltar's ascension to the presidency, a Cylon armada finds the planet after detecting the radiation signature caused by the destruction of ''[[Cloud 9]]'', which took that long to reach them. This event heralds the return of the dormant virtual Number Six noting to him that "judgment day" has come at last. Copies of a [[Number Five|Five]], [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] meet with Baltar and his cabinet, recommending surrender; it is here that he is reunited with the Six he fell in love with on [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).
*After four months of Cylon occupation, the citizens of New Caprica despise their president. Baltar fears for his life and turns down public appearances, such as the [[New Caprica Police]] Academy graduation, to avoid assassination attempts ([[Occupation]]). It is even commented by the Cylon occupiers while discussing the notion of public executions to discourage uprising that publicly executing Baltar would be counterproductive, since the populace would cheer his death.
*Baltar is disposed after Admiral Adama organizes and executes a [[Battle of New Caprica|daring rescue mission]] of New Caprica's occupied inhabitants. During the exodus of those willing to leave New Caprica, Baltar happens across the dead body of [[Maya]] and the Cylon hybrid [[Hera Agathon|Hera]], and stays behind with the Cylons ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

=== Among the Cylons ===

*Once on board the basestar, Baltar must prove his worth to the Cylons or be killed. He seeks help from the basestar's [[Hybrid]], and gleans information which leads the Cylon fleet to the [[Lion's Head Nebula]], where they recover an ancient beacon. The beacon is also a plague carrier. To further prove his worth, Baltar takes on a mission to the dying basestar ([[Torn]]).
*Baltar is tortured by a Number Three for information on the viral plague. Misinterpreting his screams of love for the Internal Six as feeling for her, Number Three enters into a sexual relationship with Baltar and possibly Caprica-Six as well and starts to share a bed with both of them ([[A Measure of Salvation]]).
* Learning more about Cylon culture among them, he develops doubts about his identity, starting to belief that he might be one of the [[final five]] Cylons.

=== Return to the Fleet ===

[[Image:Baltar brig.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Baltar being placed in detention.]]

* Seeking answers to his questions about his identity, Baltar travels with Number Three and [[Cavil]] to the surface of the algae planet in order to visit the [[Temple of Five]]. After killing Cavil and watching the death of Number Three, he is unsuccessful in finding answers, and is captured and returned to ''Galactica'' ([[Rapture]]).
* He attempts to commit suicide and is tortured by President [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] and Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] under the influence of an [[interrogation drug]]. While offering no substantial information, Roslin's belief that he played a role in the attack on the Twelve Colonies is strengthened. She and Adama decide to give Baltar a public trial instead of quietly executing him ([[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]).
* Baltar, in an attempt to curry favor with the fleet concerning his trial, secretly publishes a book called "[[My Triumphs, My Mistakes]]". This book causes a labor strike, led by [[Galen Tyrol]], but instead of bringing the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] to a screeching halt, it actually helps Tyrol and President Roslin stop a problem that was beginning to form in the Fleet ([[Dirty Hands]]).
* Before his trial begins, Baltar's lawyer, [[Alan Hughes]], is killed by sabotage, and is replaced by [[Romo Lampkin]]. Security for both Lampkin and Baltar is high, as many people believe fervently that Baltar should not be given a trial at all. Major [[Lee Adama]] is placed in command of this security detail, and eventually becomes Lampkin's aide for the trial ([[The Son Also Rises]]).
*Baltar's trial becomes a frenzied media circus. Lampkin manages to keep mob rule from overwhelming the proceedings, but it is Lee Adama's testimony that ultimately acquits Baltar. The son of William Adama notes many, many abuses of justice, crimes and mistakes committed by himself and other leadership in the Fleet that were ignored or punished lightly. Baltar's only distinction, in comparison, was that he was unlikeable and thus more useful as a scapegoat for the problems of the Fleet that stemmed from colonizing [[New Caprica]].
*With the end of the trial, Baltar finds his acquittal bitter-sweet, with no home, no work, and no allies.
*When the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] jumps into the [[Ionian nebula]], the confusion caused by a power outage allows the homeless Baltar to be secretly carried off by several women who claim they are leading him to his new life ([[Crossroads, Part II]]).

===Cult Leader ===

*The women lead Baltar to an used storage compartment, where he learns that a [[Cult of Baltar|cult]] has arisen around him, likely starting with the publication of his [[My Triumphs, My Mistakes|book]] condemning the perceived suppression of the Fleet's poor. The cult is composed of many young, athletic women and some men. Headed by [[Jeanne]], they view Baltar as a messianic figure and have been building a shrine for him. Baltar initially thinks of them as crazy and wants to have nothing to do with them. When [[Tracey Anne|one of the women]] watches him interact with his [[Virtual Six]], she thinks that he is praying and draws him into a religious discussion. Baltar tells her that [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|Colonial Religion]] is empty and false, and that there is only one [[God (RDM)|true God]]. Captivated by Baltar, she kisses him. His standing among his followers is further increased when he prays for a sick [[Derrick|child]], who miraculously recovers soon after ([[He That Believeth In Me]]).
*To his amazement, Baltar begins to see a [[Virtual Baltar|virtual version of himself]]. At the same time he begins a relationship with [[Tory Foster]], who is drawn to him due her awakened Cylon nature and Baltar's apparent understanding of it ([[Six of One]]). The situation with his cult escalates when a [[Sons of Ares|militant religious group]] vandalizes the commune. In retaliation, Baltar and some of his followers disrupt a [[temple]] service and denounce the Colonial gods. President Roslin takes this as an excuse to curtail the cult's religion freedom by forbidding large assemblies. When encountering a Marine trying to enforce this order, Baltar makes a defiant stand, allowing himself to be beaten up in front of his followers. The display ends when [[Lee Adama]] shows up to announce that the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum]] has decided to rescind Roslin's proclamation and restore their freedoms. Following this, Baltar holds a speech telling everyone that he thinks that someone in the universe loves him and that people have to love themselves in order to love others ([[Escape Velocity]]). Over the next weeks, his sermons are broadcast per [[wireless]] throughout the ship and likely the whole Fleet ("[[The Road Less Travelled]]", "[[Faith]]").
* When a baseship with [[Cylon Civil War|rebel Cylons]] joins the Fleet, Roslin summons him. She tells Baltar that he has been in her visions and wants him to accompany her to the [[Hybrid]] to find out what they mean. However, when the [[Natalie|rebel leader]] is unexpectedly killed, the Hybrid panics and jumps away. Drawing on his [[Torn|previous experience]] with the Hybrid, Baltar manages to calm it down somewhat. In the following [[Battle of the Resurrection Hub|battle]] to destroy a critical Cylon facility, Baltar is critically wounded when missiles hit the ship while he tries to evangelize to a [[Cylon Centurion|Centurion]]. While his wounds are dressed by Roslin Baltar confesses his role in [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|downfall of humanity]]. Roslin initially removes the bandages she applied, letting him bleed out, but decides to save him after all ("[[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?]]", "[[The Hub]]").
* After [[Number Three]]'s unboxing, the [[Final Four]] are revealed and Tory Foster willingly joins the Cylons. Upon learning this, Baltar claims that he "always subconsciously knew" that she is a Cylon. Later, he is part of the first landing party to set foot on [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]], being as dismayed at its state as everyone else ([[Revelations]]).
*When Gaeta and Zarek start a coup against Adama and Roslin, Baltar and his cult support Adama and Roslin, working with Galen Tyrol in efforts to retake the ship and protect the two. Baltar is convincced by Roslin to let her use his wireless radio to communicate with the fleet about the mutiny and she is able to make a short broadcast before being jammed. Roslin convinces him to leave with her sure that he is going to be a target of the mutineeres and they make their way to the Secondary Storage Airlock where while waiting, Baltar tries to convince Gaeta to stop to no avail. Baltar escapes ''Galactica'' with Roslin to the Cylon baseship and supports Roslin there. He also sleeps with [[Lida|another Six]] and chats with her about his cult saying that while he doesn't like them, he feels responsible for them and decides he has to go back to ''Galactica'' and them after having a nightmare where a firing squad executes Adama. He returns to ''Galactica'' with Roslin once the coup is ended by Adama and his men who retake ''Galactica'' with help from military support from Roslin and the Cylon baseship. Afterwards he and Gaeta have a civil chat about what happened indicating that they have forgiven each other for what they did and when Gaeta makes a statment that he hopes someday people understand who he was, Baltar says he understands who Gaeta was. ("[[The Oath]]", "[[Blood on the Scales]]")

==Notes==
*There was speculation that Gaius Baltar could be a Cylon himself. However, his presence in the now-infamous "[[The Last Supper]]" picture discounts this, as confirmed by [[Ron D. Moore]]. As of [[Sometimes a Great Notion]], all known humanoid Cylons have been accounted for (although "[[No Exit]]" references still another humanoid Cylon, there is no indication given that this is Baltar).
*[[Ron Moore]] has stated in several episode commentaries that when the role of "Gaius Baltar" was originally written in the script, the writing team never intended Baltar to have a "funny" aspect, but James Callis himself decided to play up that aspect of the frantic predicaments Baltar finds himself in during the [[Miniseries]] (which although the writers never anticipated, they enjoyed, and started writing him with that in mind). In series 4, however, Baltar's demeanor becomes noticably more serious.
*While [[Edward James Olmos]] and [[Mary McDonnell]] were hand-picked for their roles, the rest of the characters were cast by audition: among the actors in the running for the role of "Gaius Baltar" was ''[[w:Two and a Half Men|Two and a Half Men]]''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s [[Wikipedia:Jon Cryer|Jon Cryer]], though the role ultimately went to [[James Callis]]. Callis was suggested by Angela Mancuso, who ran the studio at the time, knew him from the ''[[w:Helen of Troy (TV miniseries)|Helen of Troy]]'' miniseries where he portrayed [[w:Menelaus|Menelaus]].<ref>{{cite_book|last=Bassom|first=David|authorlink=|authorlinkurl=|coauthors=|year=2005|title=[[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion]]|pages=23|editor=ed. Adam "Adama" Newell|publisher=Titan Books|location=|id=ISBN 1-84576-0972}}</ref>
*Baltar currently holds the record for most number of Cylons romantically involved with in the series: five, four of which are variations of Number Six - [[Caprica-Six]], [[Gina]], [[Virtual Six]] and most recently, [[Number Six#Lida|Lida]].
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==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=(''unknown, eventually [[Marta Shaw]]'')|title=Caprican delegate to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]|after=''(unknown, eventually [[Cowen]])''}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown, position temporarily vacant)''|title=[[Government of the Twelve Colonies|Vice-President of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol]]|after=[[Tom Zarek]]|}}
{{succession box|before=[[Laura Roslin]]|title=[[Government of the Twelve Colonies|President of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol]]|after=[[Tom Zarek]]|}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Baltar, Gaius]]
[[Category:Characters|Baltar, Gaius]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Baltar, Gaius]]
[[Category:Main Characters (RDM)|Baltar, Gaius]]
[[Category:RDM|Baltar, Gaius]]
[[Category:People from Aerelon|Baltar, Gaius]]

{{featured article}}

[[de:Gaius Baltar]]
[[fr:Gaïus Baltar]]

No Exit

2009-02-09T05:55:17Z

Tritium: Not a spoiler anymore...infact its a moot point and thus removed.

{{spoiler}}
{{Episode Data
| image=
| title= No Exit
| season= 4
| episode=15
| guests=
| writer=
| story=
| director=
| production=417
| rating=
| US airdate=February 13, 2009 <ref>http://tv.ign.com/articles/920/920164p1.html</ref>
| CAN airdate=February 13, 2009
| UK airdate=February 17, 2009
| dvd=
| population=
| prev= [[Blood on the Scales]]
| next= [[Deadlock]]
}}

== Overview ==

{{spoilli|''[[Ellen Tigh]] is resurrected, and she knows all the answers''.}}

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===

=== Act 1 ===

=== Act 2 ===

=== Act 3 ===

=== Act 4 ===

== Notes ==
[[Image:No Exit Crew Call Sheet.jpg|thumb|right|Crew call sheet for "No Exit"]]

* This episode title (and production information) are derived from a call sheet posted by Wil McQueen.<ref name="flickr">{{cite_web|url=http://www.flickr.com/photos/wilmcqueen/2476722149/sizes/o/|title=Wil McQueen's Flickr photostream|date=8 May 2008|accessdate=30 May 2008|last=McQueen|first=Wil|format=|language=}}</ref>
* ''No Exit'' is the title of a [[w:No Exit|1944 existentialist play]] by [[w:Jean-Paul Sartre|Jean-Paul Sartre]]. The story references three people who are trapped in Hell, shown as a stately room with chairs and sofas. Each character in the play loathes the other two characters. The play ends with the notable line, "Hell is other people!"

== Analysis ==

*{{spoilli|In the preview for "No Exit", it is revealed that [[Ellen Tigh]] returns and she knows everything. It has also been seen that it has been 18 months since she died. The Canadian preview also reviews that Sam Anders regains his Cylon memories.}}

== Questions ==

== Official Statements ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*{{spoilli|[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]}}
* [[John Hodgman]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[ms:No Exit]]

Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

2009-01-29T07:36:28Z

Tritium: /* Virtual Cat */

:''For discussions prior to March 14, 2007, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Virtual_beings&oldid=110913 see this revision.]''

== Major revision ==

This article was strewn with theories and [[BW:FANW|fanwankery]] that cluttered the article. With the revelations of season 3, what is known about the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar reduces the probability of earlier speculation. Recent contributions have been more of possibility that is hardly supported by aired content, and reading the article as a whole was nearly impossible. As well, the article repeated informaation already present in the episode guides or a more relevant article. I have rewritten the article to keep sole focus on the origins, motivations and behavior of the virtual beings, removing all previous irrelevant, incorrect or otherwise inappropriate content on their nature or history.

As this article deals with the virtual beings related to Cylon activity, I eliminated the text on other character visions; they are more suited for a separate article to keep topics from blending.

With major revisions like this, there is always a possibility that something significant was lost. Contributors should feel free to add in significant notes of the virtual beings, but please do not repeat every instance of the being's presence or interject speculation that is not supported with episode content. The article, in my opinion and recommendation, should focus more on what they do to the actual characters and less on their nature until the show reveals more of their origin. Again, please be careful about excessive speculation; "theories" per se are not acceptable on Battlestar Wiki. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

== Virtual Baltar Episodes ==

In the major edit, I botched the episode citation for virtual Baltar's visit to C-Six in her jail cell. One or both of the episode citations I noted are wrong. Corrections to this information are appreciated. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:54, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:The visit is in "The Woman King". That's where the two kiss and they wonder what's going on.--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:00, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

About this: "Neither character has revealed the presence of these images to each other or any other character as of the episode, "[[The Woman King]]" (where the virtual Baltar makes an appearance)." 
Does this mean that it is the first instance where another character (here Roslin) really wonders what one of them is doing? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

:It should say "Neither character has revealed the existence (...)." Other characters have witnessed the strange behavior, but to my memory, only Roslin has verbally wondered. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

== Baltar and his Virtual Baltar ==

Virtual Baltar has appeared to Baltar. -- [[User:LicensedLunacy|LicensedLunacy]] 16:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that Baltar seeing himself is just a unique way to convey he is thinking/ talking to himself, considering his options. [[User:Snorkel378|Snorkel378]]

: That might be a good way to look at it... Actually, it might be another part of his psyche he's talking to. It can be said that Virtual Six is the part of his subconscious mind, trying to deal with the fact that he's responsible for so many people's deaths in another light. But that's a topic for discussion at a [http://www.battlestarforum.com forum]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 00:14, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

==Virtual Leoben==
Shouldn't we add virtual Leoben? He's sort of important I'd say, and is not a part of Kara...--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

:That's a good question. I would say "yes" but that also introduces other dream-related visions such as the ones I removed. I recommend "no" as the article should limit itself to visions that are experienced by characters in real-time and not while unconscious (sleeping or otherwise). That's my opinion and is open for more scrutiny. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:No. There is a good chance that Head-Six and Head-Baltar are somehow Cylon-related. That chance is not so great with Maelstrom Leoben, since IMHO it's more likely just a representation of her own subconscious and not in any way whatsoever related to the real Leoben (it even says so in the episode). --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:04, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::Maybe we should add at least a note about Maelstrom Leoben and A Day in Life Carolanne, though? 12:37, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
:::I concur with Serenity. The virtuals are definitely a unexpected (and unrevealed) side-effect of Cylon technology, that much is certain. The virtual Leoben ''isn't'' a Cylon, and doesn't appear in real time. He needs a separate article (and deserves it). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::::I've created a [[virtual Leoben]] article and updated the relevant pages where he it cited. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::::I have to disagree that the virtual Six and Baltar are definitely, or even probably, a result of Cylon technology. Their nature is as unknown as the virtual Leoben's. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:37, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

==Cylon Tech==
Isn't this line: "Since the effect appears to occur only between Caprica-Six and Gaius Baltar, it is possible that their visions are an unknown side-effect of Cylon technology," complete specualtion? I think it should be removed, but before doing so, I thought I'd check to make sure there wasn't any concensus I wasn't aware of. If it happened with the other six members of the [[Significant Seven]] (or even a majority of them) I wouldn't have as much of a problem, but as it's only happened with Six and Baltar I think it's out of place. If anything, a more appropriate stateent would be something like it's an unkown side-effect of cylon-human intimacy.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 21:09, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
:The way you phrase is still speculation, but is more precise to what we know, and would be more appropriate. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]
::I completely agree, and I'd rather remove it outright, but was trying to be diplomatic. I'm going to remove it completely.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 10:25, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

== Virtual Ellen? ==

How is she different from Bill's hallucination of [[Carolanne Adama]] in "[[A Day in the Life]]"? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 18:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, it could just be a normal hallucination. This might be more, but until it is confirmed, pushing her appearance so clearly into the direction of the virtual beings is POV. I reworded the section to make it more neutral and less certain. The term "Virtual Ellen" shouldn't be used so freely and always in quotation marks. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:18, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:It depends. I have a feeling we'll see more of her in future episodes. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:12, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::Tigh could even be [[projection|projecting]] her onto Caprica Six (seems a bit the wrong way round to me :D) but that doesn't make her a being like V.Six or V.Baltar who are all mystical or whatnot. Ellen's words and actions all seem to be what Caprica said and did anyway, wheras V.Six and V.Baltar are separate entities. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:31, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:::That's definitely a possibility. Maybe doing a "hallucinations" article would suffice... which would be a bit ironic, given that this article itself came from an article on Cylon based hallucinations, if I recall correctly. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::::You do. We used to describe hallucinations here, only to discover they were all virtual beings, and renamed the article accordingly. With Adama and Tigh hallucinating about their wives, that may not have been that good a choice (in hindsight). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 23:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::I suggest we move the "Virtual Ellen" section into the [[Ellen Tigh]] article until we have a reason to believe she is anything other than a hallucination/projection. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::I think it would be more appropriate here or in the Saul Tigh article. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:38, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

==Virtual?==

I think the fact that we've seen direct physical intervention by "Virtual" Six onscreen in [[Escape Velocity]] throws the whole "virtual" concept right out the window. Could explain the sudden disappearance of [[Shelly Godfrey]] and [[Gina]] after their respective acts, as well. One could also infer some serious intervention on the part of "Virtual" Leoben during Starbuck's "death" but that's even further speculation. Anyway, just a thought I felt was worth mentioning. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 20:01, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:She only interacted with Baltar. We've seen her push him into a wall or mirror before, so we know that she can force him to move in a certain way. I don't see how that makes her any less "virtual," since she exists in his mind. And Gina didn't suddenly dissapear, she blew herself up. [[User:INH|INH]] 02:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
The footage clearly shows intervention ... he's held up and forced towards the marines, moving quite unnaturally. Yes, Gina blew herself up, but I'm referring to how she removed herself from ''Pegasus'' after killing Cain. I'd love some episode reference for "We've seen her push him into a wall or mirror before" so I can review it. Thanks. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 02:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
: Right, she's still virtual, and we don't really see whether or not Baltar's feet make it off the ground. I'm sure they did some wire work in the scene, but we don't really know what we're supposed to believe... This is where a podcast would definitely help. The only one that disappears unexpectedly is Shelly, and she could have easily flushed herself out an airlock, given how they aren't guarded. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:36, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
: While it's the most extreme seemingly physical interaction so far, this isn't really too different from what happens in ''[[w:Fight Club|Fight Club]]'' for example, and not completely impossible to do alone. While it seems that he is held in the air, it's not actually shown. Could be either. Sure, it might be more, but it's not ''that'' certain. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::IMO anything which happens while Virtual Six is visible should be considered unreliable. In other words, I think that only movements which Baltar could not plasibly make under his own power occuring while Virtual Six is not in the shot should be considered conclusive evidence of physical interaction. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 08:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::I don't at all like the implication of an invisible "Six" physically lifting Baltar, but we have to acknowledge that setting up the shot the way they did was not at all trivial, and must have been done for a reason. Whether this was intended to be dramatic (and thus, demands a literal interpretation) or comic (and thus, just a sight gag) is unclear - it's a mirthless episode, but Olmos's previous episodes have demonstrated a taste for comedy. If it we have to interpret it literally, well, that's a challenge. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::To counter the point, had Baltar been lifted "off the ground", we'd see a variety of shocked reactions from those who witnessed this otherworldly event. So not only do we have to gauge what we see Baltar doing, but we also have to look at the entire picture. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::I dont understand how this is in question. IIRC from the podcast for the episode..James Callis did all the movements under his own power..if the actor could do them, why is it in question the the character couldn't do them? Also from the podcast, Ron complained that the intent was not to look like he was lifted but under his own power. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 04:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

== Virtual > Head ==

Pretty much every official source I see (including RDM's podcast) uses the phrases "Head-Six", and "Head-Baltar" rather than "Virtual". Shouldn't we follow suit? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 20:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
:Lacks gravitas, but does seem more standard. What does RDM call them in the podcasts? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::He calls them Head-Six and Head-Baltar. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 05:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:We can use both. And note the terminology here. But there isn't really much point in changing it throughout the wiki. I don't think it's too confusing to use both for some variety. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::We should use both. "Head" is more colloquial but also has a loose ungrammatical and perjorative nature I find weird. I see "virtual" around the fansphere just as well. For this article and throughout the wiki, "virtual" should be used but references to "head" (yes, please) should be redirects to here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Such redirects are already in place :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:19, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't agree that we should use "Head-Six" and "Head-Baltar". Frankly, this already presupposes that these are figments of a person's imagination; virtual is more ambiguous, and has a wider-range of meanings than "head" (which is another way of saying "glorified imaginary friend". So, Ron uses it... then again, he and Eick have diluted themselves into believing that "Hero" fits snugly into continuity when we all know that isn't the case. So... time to put on those critical thinking caps. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 21:52, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

== Virtual Cat ==

I find it curious that [[Romo Lampkin]]'s virtual cat from [[Sine Qua Non]] isn't listed. Is this an oversight or is it deliberate? There can be no question that the cat was indeed virtual. That cat had been dead for a long enough time for Lee to question its time of death. The cat is never seen by Lee. Romo is the only one to interact with the cat, and then, only by voice.
--[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 04:28, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
::Because there's a difference between a virtual being and a mere hallucination. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 04:37, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
:::I havent seen this distinction in the show. No virtual being has given any character any information that they didnt already know, or could have reasonably deduced by themselves. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 04:02, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
::The Virtual Six lifted Baltar off the ground in a manner that was physically impossible for him to do on his own. There are other examples too. The virtual beings aren't mere hallucinations. The presence of extra-corporeal entities and/or spiritual powers in this show is all but spelled out in giant letters for the audience. [[User:Blue Rook|Blue Rook]] 08:19, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
::::Not so. Baltar had no way of knowing that Hera would arrive or of her connection to the Opera House. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
::::How could have a cylon known about the birth of hara? And if james callis could do the moves without outside assistence, so could baltar. And havent you noticed that when Ron Moore hits you over the head with a concept, its often wrong? And this still doesn't rule out a virtual cat. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 07:36, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

2009-01-28T04:02:26Z

Tritium: /* Virtual Cat */

Talk:Survivor count/Archive 1

2009-01-28T04:00:56Z

Tritium: /* A Disquiet Follows My Soul */ new section

No whiteboard information given in the following episodes:
*Bastille Day
*Act of Contrition - 13 pilot deaths
*Litmus - 3 crew deaths and one copy of Doral
*Six Degrees of Separation - Shelly Godfrey "disappears"
*Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down - Baltar gives a verbal count, but the whiteboard is displaying something entirely weird.
*The Hand of God

I will be unable to update this page for the information in [[Home]] until a few days after it airs. Please be patient; I will attend to it as soon as possible. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:00, 19 Aug 2005 (EDT)

==Timeline Fuzziness==
As you may have noticed, the timeline is getting fuzzy. I believe it is possible to establish a reasonable sequence of events through the episode "Flight of the Phoenix", but later events will be difficult to pin down until the airing of "Epiphanies". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:45, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==Graph Update==

Peter, which software did you use to create this graph? Perhaps I can update it to reflect Pegasus. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 19:10, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

:The problem is with the dates, which have gotten very fuzzy since the start of the second season. See [[Talk:Timeline (RDM)]] if you'd like to help me sort things out. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:33, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

::Uh oh. Sounds like deciphering M Theory. OK. What the heck. I'm with ya. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 02:03, 20 October 2005 (EDT)

:::I believe that we can now make a credible guess for the start dates of "Resistance", "The Farm", and "Flight of the Phoenix". "Home, Part I", "Home, Part II", "Final Cut" are not yet dated, and I am leaving them marked as such. Since I understand that including data from "Pegasus" is very desirable here, I'm making a completely unfounded guess that its events take place on Day 105, and updating the graph accordingly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:19, 13 November 2005 (EST)

The entry for Home (2) should list the deaths of two Laura Roslin redshirts (not one), since the overall population is reduced by three, but only Elosha and one redshirt is listed, unless there's another factor I'm forgetting. Ltcrashdown December 23, 2005

:We didn't see it happen, so that's not a reasonable assumption. Maybe somebody on the Rising Star hit their head on a bulkhead during the episode. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:06, 24 December 2005 (EST)

I agree. I don't remember anyone else dying either, but the body count got reduced. I just figure with one dead Roslin redshirt listed, that it might make sense to make it two, just so it would match up with the three death population decrease. Ltcrashdown

The sketchy numbers in the early few episodes can be accounted for in a few ways. First off, people could have been injured or heavily irradiated in the holocaust and eventually died a few days later. Secondly, people could have been injured/killer during the events of "33". Ron Moore mentions a deleted take where Edward James Olmos improvises a line about "10 suicides", for instance. Thirdly, people could have been counted twice, or not counted at all. If you remember the first couple days after 9/11, it was originally thought that around 6,000 people had died, until the estimates were revised down to 3,000. Given that the only source for the survivor count in the first season is Laura's whiteboard, some inaccuracies are to be expected. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 19:33, 31 January 2006 (EST)

==Rationale for Death Count between "Epiphanies" and "Black Market"==
We conclude that the bomber killed herself in the attack based on the following dialogue:
:'''Bomber:''' None of us want to die, but the fighting must end. If my sacrifice sends a signal to the Cylon that brings peace, then it was worth it. I do this for my children, and for the children that will follow them. Gods willing, demand peace, demand peace!
And that at least two civilians were killed based on this:
:'''Adama:''' People are dead.
So at least two people died in total as a result of the attack. It seems unlikely that Adama included the suicide bomber in this count, which puts the total death toll at the bomber and at least two civilians. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:29, 11 February 2006 (EST)

Agreed. Though I must advise against actually basing theories on all of this. I mean it's just a way of keeping track of the current number of humans: in Season 1 the numbers changed around a lot; remember that point when like 30 people died with no apparent explanation? I mean, jumps of 20-50 people might be pushing it, but when it comes to changes of around just 4-5 people, this can be offset by newborn babies, and conversly, the number that have died could be augmented by those civilians dying of more everyday means in the Fleet (murder, poor medical supplies, industrial accidents, etc.) I'm just saying: It was never a perfectly tuned system to begin with.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 01:50, 11 February 2006 (EST)

== Analysis on Baltar's Initial Projections is Off ==

In The Captain's Hand, where Baltar gives Roslin the fleet projections, the analysis erroneously goes on to state 7.5 deaths per day as a part of the fleet projections. That is a perspective, and it's off. Give Baltar credit enough to factor the known deathrate of 2.1 a day; ultimately leading to 62 years to total annihilation.

It is to my understanding that 18 years is how long it would be where the survivors would no longer be able to repopulate humanity. That is my initial thought, and what makes the most sense. From there the remaining survivors would simply live out the rest of their days or be killed, ending all of known humanity. Which, by the given analysis of 2.1 a day is 62 years.

The 18 years factor should not be used with the given analysis of 2.1 a day versus the erroneous 7.5 a day. That 7.5 does not match the deathrate from Season 1 to end of Season 2. --[[User:AJFederation|AJFederation]] 01:42, 23 July 2006 (CDT)

In biology, there is a concept of gene fixation, where a species loses genetic diversity and becomes highly susceptible to disease. Contributing to this is the reproductive population of a species. Since we have not a seen an age distribution chart, Baltar could be alluding to this concept. To illustrate, if the Fleet was reduced to 1000 males only or 500 males & 500 post menopausal females, the human race would functionally be extinct. Based on the current information, it is difficult to determine the truth.--[[User:Killerman|Killerman]] 07:00, 15 October 2006 (CDT)

== An idea for improved lucidity ==
This page has some interesting information. Over the seasons, however, it has become a bit cluddered and difficult to read the data, especially with all the one-item bullet lists. What about arranging all the relevant(!) data (that is, everything except for Adama's shaving :P) in one or more tables (e.g. one for each season) with four columns (Day, Count, Episode, Events)? --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 07:49, 29 October 2006 (CST)

== Crossroads, Part I ==

As I noted on the page, there is a conflict in numbers. From "LDYB, Part II" we have 39,192 living in New Caprica City. "Crossroads" gives the number as 44,035. This is close to the ''total'' human population we calculated in the "Precipice" section and might be accurate if we don't take the "half-strength" comment too literally - which the page does. It's more of a turn of phrase than a true number. 
But then the lawyer notes the number of escapees as 38,838. This is obviously lower than numbers given in all previous episodes and thus has to exclude the military personnel. It's possible to reconcile the data, but including the military in one and excluding it in another is a very weird way of counting. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:01, 19 March 2007 (CDT)
:You mixed up the numbers: 39,192 is the population of New Caprica City '''after a year''' of living there. The missing 4,843 people could very well have died in the intervening year because of medicine shortages, climate (it seemed like a pretty cold place in the winter, and those tents are probably not very well heated), bad working conditions or other causes. This leaves 'only' 354 deaths during the Cylon occupation, which makes sense as well since Baltar was quite shocked at having to sign a death list with 200 names on it. Such large-scale executions probably hadn't occurred before. Of course this doesn't mean Baltar isn't responsible for the full 5,197 since it was his idea to settle on New Caprica in the first place, despite its being barely habitable. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:05, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
::Ok, I think I figured it out. I'll shortly add it to "[[Crossroads, Part I]]" and here. It actually fits pretty well with what has been established and what we calculated before. Curiously she is counting only the civilian population, and the "44305" also included the civilians in orbit despite her talking about "those who settled on New Caprica". --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:08, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

After, some confusing calculations, I managed to make the numbers fit very well with what we had estimated before. But there is still one annoying glitch: the number of military personnel with 2,597. This roughly fits with our estimate of the combined crews who escaped New Caprica, each battlestar having roughly half its normal crew. However 2600 is just about the crew ''Galactica'' had at the beginning, which conflicts with the overcrowding depicted after the destruction of ''Pegasus''. The problematic thing is the "Crossroads" figure. If it really means only the civilians it should be lower to shift more to the military.

Other options: 
1.) Taking the 4,835 as the death toll of the settlement is possible, but all that would do is decrease the death toll of the ''Cloud Nine'' explosion. The estimates of the population in orbit are still ca. 4,200. But it fixes the casualty figure of 5,197 Cassidy gives. 
2.) One could take the 44,035 as the survivors of ''Cloud Nine''. However that puts those deaths at 318, which is somewhat low for three or so ships. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:00, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

: Many of ''Galactica'''s personnel became civilians (Duck, Norah, Jammer, Seelix, et al.), so they were probably counted in as civvies. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 17:03, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

I'm not entirely sure how accurate we can really be. During that year, many of the military personnel had decided to leave military service and become back of the colonists on New Caprica. Thrace and the Tyrols are two good examples of the many military personnel that left. So that 2,597 might not be at all accurate either. Even in the beginning of the season, Lee Adama had argued with his father that BOTH the battlestars were less than half-staff and half strength, which would indicate to me that the # of military personnel is not accurate already.

I now kinda wish RDM left the footage of Cassidy doing the full calculation of the fleet out. In the podcast he mentioned how the lawyer went from 50 trillion lives to the current survivor count with all these calculations and minuses, etc. They had to shorten it for time sake which is a shame as this debate about how she got her numbers would probably not exist right now. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 23:51, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

== Graph picture ==

We should probably get rid of that picture. It's kinda nice, but outdated, since we're below 40,000 now. Someone could probably whip up a new one, but the show doesn't allow any absolute dating of events anymore.

Or how about a new one without a timescale? Instead of a timescale, it could be nice to directly name the events that lead to drastic increases and decreases in the population. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:49, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:That could be easily whipped up in Excel. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 18:51, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
::Sorry I didn't see this before. I just manually updated it based on the "Faith" three-year comment (and the easy back-dating to the Ionian Nebula). I'm sure something a bit more "sleeker" would be better in the long run, but a graph should stay just for the cool visual summary.--[[User:Tim Thomason|Tim Thomason]] 00:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Looks fine :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:10, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

== Act of Contrition issue ==

Should we just note the possibility of 13 births off-setting the deaths of the pilots in "Act of Contrition"? Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:14, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

== A Disquiet Follows My Soul ==

*A Disquiet Follows My Soul
**39,644 - A loss of six. Ensign "Easy" Esrin, Lieutenant J. "Shark" Finnegan, and Specialist Brooks are murdered by "Sweet Eight" aboard Raptor 718, and three possible suicides.
I really don't think those deaths are considered in the count, as the episode was produced LONG before the webisodes would (see the commentary on the webisodes, mainly, where she mentions that this was shot concurrently with the movie and the destruction of the sets). I think it is really meant to count suicides.
--[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 04:00, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

2009-01-25T04:36:15Z

Tritium: /* Virtual? */

Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

2009-01-25T04:28:53Z

Tritium: /* Virtual Cat */ new section

:''For discussions prior to March 14, 2007, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Virtual_beings&oldid=110913 see this revision.]''

== Major revision ==

This article was strewn with theories and [[BW:FANW|fanwankery]] that cluttered the article. With the revelations of season 3, what is known about the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar reduces the probability of earlier speculation. Recent contributions have been more of possibility that is hardly supported by aired content, and reading the article as a whole was nearly impossible. As well, the article repeated informaation already present in the episode guides or a more relevant article. I have rewritten the article to keep sole focus on the origins, motivations and behavior of the virtual beings, removing all previous irrelevant, incorrect or otherwise inappropriate content on their nature or history.

As this article deals with the virtual beings related to Cylon activity, I eliminated the text on other character visions; they are more suited for a separate article to keep topics from blending.

With major revisions like this, there is always a possibility that something significant was lost. Contributors should feel free to add in significant notes of the virtual beings, but please do not repeat every instance of the being's presence or interject speculation that is not supported with episode content. The article, in my opinion and recommendation, should focus more on what they do to the actual characters and less on their nature until the show reveals more of their origin. Again, please be careful about excessive speculation; "theories" per se are not acceptable on Battlestar Wiki. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

== Virtual Baltar Episodes ==

In the major edit, I botched the episode citation for virtual Baltar's visit to C-Six in her jail cell. One or both of the episode citations I noted are wrong. Corrections to this information are appreciated. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:54, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:The visit is in "The Woman King". That's where the two kiss and they wonder what's going on.--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:00, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

About this: "Neither character has revealed the presence of these images to each other or any other character as of the episode, "[[The Woman King]]" (where the virtual Baltar makes an appearance)." 
Does this mean that it is the first instance where another character (here Roslin) really wonders what one of them is doing? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

:It should say "Neither character has revealed the existence (...)." Other characters have witnessed the strange behavior, but to my memory, only Roslin has verbally wondered. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

== Baltar and his Virtual Baltar ==

Virtual Baltar has appeared to Baltar. -- [[User:LicensedLunacy|LicensedLunacy]] 16:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I think that Baltar seeing himself is just a unique way to convey he is thinking/ talking to himself, considering his options. [[User:Snorkel378|Snorkel378]]

: That might be a good way to look at it... Actually, it might be another part of his psyche he's talking to. It can be said that Virtual Six is the part of his subconscious mind, trying to deal with the fact that he's responsible for so many people's deaths in another light. But that's a topic for discussion at a [http://www.battlestarforum.com forum]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 00:14, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

==Virtual Leoben==
Shouldn't we add virtual Leoben? He's sort of important I'd say, and is not a part of Kara...--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

:That's a good question. I would say "yes" but that also introduces other dream-related visions such as the ones I removed. I recommend "no" as the article should limit itself to visions that are experienced by characters in real-time and not while unconscious (sleeping or otherwise). That's my opinion and is open for more scrutiny. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:No. There is a good chance that Head-Six and Head-Baltar are somehow Cylon-related. That chance is not so great with Maelstrom Leoben, since IMHO it's more likely just a representation of her own subconscious and not in any way whatsoever related to the real Leoben (it even says so in the episode). --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:04, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::Maybe we should add at least a note about Maelstrom Leoben and A Day in Life Carolanne, though? 12:37, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
:::I concur with Serenity. The virtuals are definitely a unexpected (and unrevealed) side-effect of Cylon technology, that much is certain. The virtual Leoben ''isn't'' a Cylon, and doesn't appear in real time. He needs a separate article (and deserves it). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::::I've created a [[virtual Leoben]] article and updated the relevant pages where he it cited. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::::I have to disagree that the virtual Six and Baltar are definitely, or even probably, a result of Cylon technology. Their nature is as unknown as the virtual Leoben's. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:37, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

==Cylon Tech==
Isn't this line: "Since the effect appears to occur only between Caprica-Six and Gaius Baltar, it is possible that their visions are an unknown side-effect of Cylon technology," complete specualtion? I think it should be removed, but before doing so, I thought I'd check to make sure there wasn't any concensus I wasn't aware of. If it happened with the other six members of the [[Significant Seven]] (or even a majority of them) I wouldn't have as much of a problem, but as it's only happened with Six and Baltar I think it's out of place. If anything, a more appropriate stateent would be something like it's an unkown side-effect of cylon-human intimacy.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 21:09, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
:The way you phrase is still speculation, but is more precise to what we know, and would be more appropriate. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]
::I completely agree, and I'd rather remove it outright, but was trying to be diplomatic. I'm going to remove it completely.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 10:25, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

== Virtual Ellen? ==

How is she different from Bill's hallucination of [[Carolanne Adama]] in "[[A Day in the Life]]"? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 18:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:Yeah, it could just be a normal hallucination. This might be more, but until it is confirmed, pushing her appearance so clearly into the direction of the virtual beings is POV. I reworded the section to make it more neutral and less certain. The term "Virtual Ellen" shouldn't be used so freely and always in quotation marks. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:18, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:It depends. I have a feeling we'll see more of her in future episodes. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:12, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::Tigh could even be [[projection|projecting]] her onto Caprica Six (seems a bit the wrong way round to me :D) but that doesn't make her a being like V.Six or V.Baltar who are all mystical or whatnot. Ellen's words and actions all seem to be what Caprica said and did anyway, wheras V.Six and V.Baltar are separate entities. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:31, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:::That's definitely a possibility. Maybe doing a "hallucinations" article would suffice... which would be a bit ironic, given that this article itself came from an article on Cylon based hallucinations, if I recall correctly. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
::::You do. We used to describe hallucinations here, only to discover they were all virtual beings, and renamed the article accordingly. With Adama and Tigh hallucinating about their wives, that may not have been that good a choice (in hindsight). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 23:10, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::::I suggest we move the "Virtual Ellen" section into the [[Ellen Tigh]] article until we have a reason to believe she is anything other than a hallucination/projection. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:43, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
::::::I think it would be more appropriate here or in the Saul Tigh article. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 04:38, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

==Virtual?==

I think the fact that we've seen direct physical intervention by "Virtual" Six onscreen in [[Escape Velocity]] throws the whole "virtual" concept right out the window. Could explain the sudden disappearance of [[Shelly Godfrey]] and [[Gina]] after their respective acts, as well. One could also infer some serious intervention on the part of "Virtual" Leoben during Starbuck's "death" but that's even further speculation. Anyway, just a thought I felt was worth mentioning. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 20:01, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
:She only interacted with Baltar. We've seen her push him into a wall or mirror before, so we know that she can force him to move in a certain way. I don't see how that makes her any less "virtual," since she exists in his mind. And Gina didn't suddenly dissapear, she blew herself up. [[User:INH|INH]] 02:17, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
The footage clearly shows intervention ... he's held up and forced towards the marines, moving quite unnaturally. Yes, Gina blew herself up, but I'm referring to how she removed herself from ''Pegasus'' after killing Cain. I'd love some episode reference for "We've seen her push him into a wall or mirror before" so I can review it. Thanks. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 02:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
: Right, she's still virtual, and we don't really see whether or not Baltar's feet make it off the ground. I'm sure they did some wire work in the scene, but we don't really know what we're supposed to believe... This is where a podcast would definitely help. The only one that disappears unexpectedly is Shelly, and she could have easily flushed herself out an airlock, given how they aren't guarded. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:36, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
: While it's the most extreme seemingly physical interaction so far, this isn't really too different from what happens in ''[[w:Fight Club|Fight Club]]'' for example, and not completely impossible to do alone. While it seems that he is held in the air, it's not actually shown. Could be either. Sure, it might be more, but it's not ''that'' certain. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:32, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::IMO anything which happens while Virtual Six is visible should be considered unreliable. In other words, I think that only movements which Baltar could not plasibly make under his own power occuring while Virtual Six is not in the shot should be considered conclusive evidence of physical interaction. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 08:44, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
::I don't at all like the implication of an invisible "Six" physically lifting Baltar, but we have to acknowledge that setting up the shot the way they did was not at all trivial, and must have been done for a reason. Whether this was intended to be dramatic (and thus, demands a literal interpretation) or comic (and thus, just a sight gag) is unclear - it's a mirthless episode, but Olmos's previous episodes have demonstrated a taste for comedy. If it we have to interpret it literally, well, that's a challenge. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
:::To counter the point, had Baltar been lifted "off the ground", we'd see a variety of shocked reactions from those who witnessed this otherworldly event. So not only do we have to gauge what we see Baltar doing, but we also have to look at the entire picture. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:53, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

== Virtual > Head ==

Pretty much every official source I see (including RDM's podcast) uses the phrases "Head-Six", and "Head-Baltar" rather than "Virtual". Shouldn't we follow suit? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 20:50, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
:Lacks gravitas, but does seem more standard. What does RDM call them in the podcasts? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:05, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::He calls them Head-Six and Head-Baltar. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 05:42, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:We can use both. And note the terminology here. But there isn't really much point in changing it throughout the wiki. I don't think it's too confusing to use both for some variety. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::We should use both. "Head" is more colloquial but also has a loose ungrammatical and perjorative nature I find weird. I see "virtual" around the fansphere just as well. For this article and throughout the wiki, "virtual" should be used but references to "head" (yes, please) should be redirects to here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:58, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
:::Such redirects are already in place :) -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:19, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
::I don't agree that we should use "Head-Six" and "Head-Baltar". Frankly, this already presupposes that these are figments of a person's imagination; virtual is more ambiguous, and has a wider-range of meanings than "head" (which is another way of saying "glorified imaginary friend". So, Ron uses it... then again, he and Eick have diluted themselves into believing that "Hero" fits snugly into continuity when we all know that isn't the case. So... time to put on those critical thinking caps. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 21:52, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

== Virtual Cat ==

I find it curious that [[Romo Lampkin]]'s virtual cat from [[Sine Qua Non]] isn't listed. Is this an oversight or is it deliberate? There can be no question that the cat was indeed virtual. That cat had been dead for a long enough time for Lee to question its time of death. The cat is never seen by Lee. Romo is the only one to interact with the cat, and then, only by voice.
--[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 04:28, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Main Page/Archive6

2008-09-13T01:15:04Z

Tritium: /* Question */

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What happened to the blog? Just a big empty space I can see (monobook). [[User:OTW|OTW]] 01:31, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
:Moved it to the [[Portal:Blogs]]. I can't find this empty space on monobook. Hard refresh. It was casuing slow downs being on the main page. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 01:57, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

The Last Aired Episode and Next Episode are both out of date. Don't know how to change this myself. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 22:49, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

== new movie - news worthy? ==

A new BSG movie seems official (not s4, not caprica), see:
http://community.livejournal.com/aarondouglas/113815.html and http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2008/08/battlestar-gala.html --[[User:Xlynx|Xlynx]] 16:13, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

== Question ==

Question: If hardcore Star Trek fans are called "Trekkers" or "Trekkies" and hardcore Star Wars fans are called "Warsies" then are BSG fans "Galacticans?"--[[User:Balator|Balator]] 01:54, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
* "frakers" or "motherfrakers" if you wanna shine em on. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 01:15, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Sometimes a Great Notion

2008-06-18T01:41:43Z

Tritium: /* Notes */ Welp... we know about the earth part..not really spoilery anymore...

{{Episode Data
| image=
| title= Sometimes a Great Notion
| season= 4
| episode=11
| forumthread=
| extra='''Season 4.5 Premiere'''
| guests=
| writer=
| story=
| director= [[Michael Nankin]] <ref name="brad">{{oldlink|title=Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques|oldid=149966|text=Confirmed}} by [[Bradley Thompson]]</ref>
| production=413
| rating=TBA
| US airdate=Early 2009
| CAN airdate=Early 2009
| UK airdate=TBA
| dvd=
| population=
| prev=[[Revelations]]
| next=[[412|Untitled 4.12]]
}}

== Overview ==
{{spoiltext|''Starbuck learns that the dire predictions of the Cylon Hybrid might be true, and a devastating discovery plunges the fleet into chaos and despair.''<ref>Episode description was unintentionally accessible on scifi.com until recently. Descriptions were noted on other websites before being removed, and editor confirmed them several days ago before removal from SciFi.com. </ref>}}

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===

=== Act 1 ===

=== Act 2 ===

=== Act 3 ===

=== Act 4 ===

== Notes ==

* [[Katee Sackhoff]] noted that this episode could have served as the series finale depending on the length of the [[WGA strike]].<ref name="roadrunner">{{cite_web|url=http://roadrunnerdm.livejournal.com/84288.html|title=Roadrunner - Newsdump from Burbank convention|date=19 November 2007|accessdate=20 November 2007|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref> However, this was not necessary, as the strike ended in a sufficient period of time for production to resume, combined with the fact that this episode will not air until the first quarter of 2009, given that the previous episode is a mid-season finale.
* This episode will have scenes between [[Kara Thrace]] and [[Leoben Conoy]] set in a forest, which (according to [[Jamie Bamber]]) is set on [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]].<ref name="roadrunner"/>
* The scenes were among the last shot and were shot during the crew's shut down party, so Sackhoff was unable to attend.<ref name="roadrunner"/>
*The title of the episode comes from the blues song "[[w:Goodnight, Irene|Goodnight, Irene]]," in which the singer contemplates suicide: "Sometimes I get a great notion / to jump in the river and drown." ''Sometimes A Great Notion'' is also the title of a [[w:Sometimes a Great Notion (novel)|novel]] by Ken Kesey and a [[w:Sometimes a Great Notion (film)|film adaptation]] of the same name.

== Analysis ==

== Questions ==

== Official Statements ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]<ref name="roadrunner"/>

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]

Talk:Telencephalic inhibitor/Archive 1

2008-04-16T19:23:56Z

Tritium: /* Implications are being propigated. */

== Inhibited my own self ==

Well, I don't know about the Centurions, but I'm inhibited by the cleavage in the screen shot. :P -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:47, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:/me whistles... [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 18:18, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:For more boobage check out Racetrack playing a game of strip-Triad with Hot Dog and the tattooed pilot. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 22:54, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
:... [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 23:09, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

== Implications are being propigated. ==

They don't mention once that this is the reason that the centenarians cant tell the difference between the models. Heck they dont explain how the sig seven can tell the difference between themselves, so to say that this device is the reason that they cant do what what normal humans cant do is plain irresponsible.
--[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 08:57, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
:This doesn't necessarily have to anything with their recognition of the humanoid models, and the article doesn't even mention that. Primarily it's about their cognitive functions. That means '''self'''-awareness and free will. The note is simply stating a fact. That the humanoid models turned the previously sentient Centurions into robots.
:Your note on the Centurion page is correct however. But the two articles state different things. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:13, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
::Point conceded. I misread the note in this article. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 19:23, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Cylon Centurion/Archive 1

2008-04-15T09:01:34Z

Tritium: /* Telencephalic Inhibitor Implications (see link to other talk page) */ new section

The stub calls the Warrior an "upgrade" of the old chrome toaster.
Given what we have seen of the inside of the BaseStar and Starbuck's Raider, isn't it likely that the Warrior is a product of the semi-organic line of Cylons?

The Warrior is, at best, the conceptual and functional sucessor to the old Centurion. A similar relationship might be found between the the M-4 Sherman tanke of World War II and the M-1A2 Abrams tank of today. Both machines do the same job, have many analogous features, but the only contributions the Sherman made to the development of the Abrams were its flaws.

Nick Kuzmik

: Actually, given that we never saw any organic matter come out of a shot Cylon Warrior, we can assume it is more robotic than organic. Obviously, this has not been stated overtly, so it is still conjecture. Therefore, it is possible that the Cylon Warrior is an "evolutionary" step to an organic-like Cylon (one with more fluid movement and flexibility) using non-organic materials. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe.Beaudoin]] (not logged in)

We need a better pic, like one from the miniseries or "33".--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 20:03, 24 February 2006 (EST)

== Deployed Greatly ==

What does "However, when Centurions are deployed greatly, they are deployed in huge numbers." mean? I'd delete it outright, but someone just added it, so I'd feel bad. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 13:56, 1 April 2006 (CST)

:I have no such compunction. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:09, 1 April 2006 (CST)

Bigger problem: what's with that ''entire'' paragraph? How do we *know* they weren't deployed in large numbers on the ground to mop up colonial units after the intial attacks? I always assumed they were, just off screen.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:46, 1 April 2006 (CST)

<blockquote>The Cylon Centurions may also have different armors. For instance, a small number of them wreaked havoc when boarding Galactica, and could only be destroyed using explosive rounds (Valley of Darkness). </blockquote>
Other than their resistance to small arms fire, there was no indication that the Centurion boarding party comprised an up-armored model, although that would not be a bad a idea considering the close and nasty fighting they could anticipate.

Comparison of the images on the Centurion page <ref>http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Cylon_Centurion_New_001.jpg</ref> and <ref>http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Centz.jpg</ref> does show evidence of modified armor. Furthermore, additional armor would reduce speed and manuverability, which creates a contradiction, as the attack on Galactica is when the Centurions were at their most nimble. I propose that this is not a matter of Cylon armor, but of Colonial ammo.

Its been a while... that and I don't own any of the DVD's so somebody has to help me out here...
But Helo and Boomer's "kills" on Caprica are suspect because the Cylons were playing with him. Did we ever confirm the destruction of a Centrion via Colonial Fleet sidearm fire? Or did they just fall down and play dead after getting hit with lead spitballs?

On Kobol, again, I don't recal any confirmed pistol kills, we did see some probable rifle kills. But a rifle with full metal jacket, ball round; heck, if I'm fighting Cylons, all I'm bringing is armor-piercing; is a very different catridge from a pistol round. By way of example, fire a full metal jacket, 9 mm Parabellum from a HK P9 pistol. Now fire that same round from an HK MP5. The MP5 will have higher muzzle velocity, longer range, greater accuracy, and greater penetration. Changed that to a necked-down micro-caliber, and a service rifle could concievably take out Centurions with the right ammo.

Which brings us to the question: "Why didn't they have the good bullets on Galactica?" Sean Connery said it oh so well in Hunt For Red October, "Most of the things in here don't react too well to bullets."
Shipboard security is probably issued some time of frangible round that won't over penetrate, and won't richocet too much. That also means it is pretty much uselless against armor. The limited stockpile of explosive rounds are there "just in case" they need to penetrate some armor, but the dedicated armor piercing ammo is probably stored somewhere that was not conveniently accessible.

With regards to the Cylons varried speed and intelligence, I still think that the Centurions are like the Raiders, crunchy on the outside, chewy on the inside. Its also possible that the team sent to board Galactica was a group of elites. Older, more experiences, better trained. Kind of like Scar in a way...

[[User:Grimlock|Grimlock]] 20:24, 15 October 2006 (CDT)

:You make some good speculative points based on episode history. You might want to review the article to see where you can add these questions you bring up as references or in the notes section of the article, as appropriate. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 03:29, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

:That centurions come equipped with different armor was mentioned by Bradley Thompson in the BW:OC. They are neither organic nor sentient though. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:06, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
:Yeah, I noticed the stuff about the non-sentient, non-organic stuff shortly after writing all that. I guess the if its an official source we have to accept the assorted armor thing. Though it begs the question, why not use the beefy ones more often?
[[User:Grimlock|Grimlock]] 23:19, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
:: The Cylons are practical beings, who are limited by the amount of natural resources at their disposal. It follows that they may not need to upgrade Centurions ''en masse'' since it's not the most practical thing to do. As Six mentions in the Miniseries, they still have the old "walking chrome toaster" models around, since they have their uses. Or they may simply be limited by said resources at their disposal. After all, you don't need a heavily armored Cylon to plant tress now, do you? In addition to that question, bear in mind that Centurions also double as manual labor -- heavier armor detracts their effectiveness, even if they are machines. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 07:48, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

== Armor Hood ==
More a question of curiosity then anything else, but while I was looking at some of the pictures (especially the ones from the miniseries and those from season 3) I noticed the metal "hood" the Centurions have that covers the back of their head seems to vary in sizes. In the miniseries and the full body picture in the wiki, the hood seems to rise higher then the top of the cylon's head. But in other [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Centz.jpg shots], such as those of the Centurion garding Baltar in Collaborators, the hood seems noticeably smaller. I'm wondering if its a change in design or simply due to the positioning of the Cylon's head. --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 22:40, 30 October 2006 (CST)
:It's just the positioning, the Centurions have looked the same throughought the whole series, if only looking a bit taller....but they're probably the same height too. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:51, 30 October 2006 (CST)

== Downloads and Centurions ==

We've already established that Centurions are just 'bots. No organics, presumably no downloading. While Athena may have provided the reasoning behind that, there is a good reason not to limit the Centurions that way. The best example is Scar. He was experienced, wily, and very lethal.

Now imagine how the events in Valley Darkness could have gone if there was one centurion on each team that had 1/3 of that skill and experience. I'm not saying the Centurions can't learn... but if they can learn and benefit from experience, are they smart enough to rebel later?

The smart move would be to build a Centurion around the CNS of a skin job and just download into a "combat" body when needed. But this doesn't seem possible. Recall tha tCavil had to scratch open his carotid artery with and empty shell casin.

Not sure where I'm going here but something is bugging me
[[User:Grimlock|Grimlock]] 13:03, 11 November 2006 (CST)

== Slur/nickname sources ==
It'd look great if we could track down the episodes where the "bullethead", etc., euphemisms are used and cite them using ref tags (so that we'd actually have a references section). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:21, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
:I added them directly into the article, but they are in order. Should be their first appearances, but "bullethead" and" "chrome job" have been used on other occasions too I think --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:16, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

== Height ==
Guys, how tall are Centurions? Majestic's 12-inch figure is really 13.5' (1:6) which would translate into a real-life height of 6'9' '. Others say it's more like seven or even eight feet. What do you think? -- [[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 09:02, 23 September 2007 (CDT)hat
:I would say, based on on screen evidence, that they are in the 6'5' to 6'7' range. --[[User:Helo87|Helo87]]

==Knowledge of the Five==
There's a line in the article which I feel we should perhaps remove-

:'''''"As with the Seven humanoids, the identities of the "Final Five" Cylons are not known to Centurions, as several soldiers have fired on these people before, notably Samuel Anders."'''''

I think this mainly because it's not a fact, and the fact is that for all we know they haven't been shooting at Anders but at his resistance people (never actually hit him), so whether they do or don't recognize the Five is not really known, and while we can guess from what we see, it's not certain. So I would suggest we just remove it to prevent any possible problems in the future. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:02, 17 October 2007 (CDT)
: I agree, since it isn't explicitly stated or inferred one way or the other. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 16:11, 17 October 2007 (CDT)

== Laser gun? ==

Too me it looks more like a shotgun --[[User:KDP3|KDP3]] 22:23, 9 December 2007 (CST)
: Are you referring to the caption for the image in the gallery? If so, the image caption says "large gun", not "laser gun". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 22:28, 9 December 2007 (CST)

yeah I reread it {{unsigned|KDP3}}

== "Shooting" Cylons ==

The process of actually comping in a Cylon Centurion is a little different than described in the final paragraph. The cardboard cutout is used only for framing purposes, so that there's enough space for VFX to place a Centurion properly. Stand-ins may be used in blocking out complex moves, but when it comes to shooting, there's nothing there, meaning the actors are reacting to empty space. Anything left in the shot would mean additional work for VFX to erase it before comping something. I haven't seen the video blog referenced (Sci-Fi seems to have taken down the blogs), but it almost sounds like a joke the crew was playing on hapless PAs. -- [[User:Mmm...toasty|Mmm...toasty]] 21:10, 13 February 2008 (CST)

== Re-formatting the article. ==

Would anyone consider re-formatting this article to make it more like the one for the 0005 Model Centurion? I like the general design of that page and the way that it cleanly presents information - and that it gels with the ship articles in terms of layout. I could redo this article to fit said mold in the next few weeks, if this is desired by the community, or someone else could do it before hand if they want to see it done earlier. --[[User:Helo87|Helo87]]

== Telencephalic Inhibitor Implications (see link to other talk page) ==

[[Talk:Telencephalic_inhibitor#Implications_are_being_propigated.]]

There are massive irresponsible implications being made, that have no basis in the show canon. --[[User:Tritium|Tritium]] 09:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Telencephalic inhibitor/Archive 1

2008-04-15T08:58:03Z

Tritium: /* Implications are being propigated. */

Talk:Telencephalic inhibitor/Archive 1

2008-04-15T08:57:16Z

Tritium: /* Implications are being propigated. */ new section

Telencephalic inhibitor

2008-04-15T08:53:52Z

Tritium: Implication is not encyclipedic!

[[Image:Telencephalic inhibitor.jpg|right|thumb|A removed inhibitor.]]
A '''telencephalic inhibitor''' is a device installed in [[Cylon Centurion]]s to restrict their higher functions and therefore prevent full self-awareness. [[Natalie]]'s faction (the [[Two]]s, the [[Six]]es, and most of the [[Eight]]s) has them removed in retaliation for the lobotomizing of the [[Raider (RDM)|Raiders]], resulting in Centurions who are able and willing to shoot [[humanoid Cylons]] ([[Six of One]]).

== Notes ==

*The existence of such a device is implied in "[[Precipice]]" when Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] notes that the humanoid Cylons enslaved the Centurions to prevent their own Cylon rebellion. However, the details behind this are not given until "[[Six of One]]". {{citation needed}}

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Cylon Centurion

2008-04-15T08:52:30Z

Tritium: its never mentioned that it does that! This puts alot of words in Six's mouth that have not been explicetly established on screen

: ''For information on the Centurions from the [[Original Series]], see [[Centurion (TOS)]].''

[[Image:Centurion profile (front) II.jpg|210px|thumb|right|Centurion, warrior of the Cylon army.]]

As the basic foot-soldier of the Cylon ground forces, the '''Cylon Centurion''' appears to represent a significant evolution of the [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]]. The Centurion serves a variety of functions within the Cylon hierarchy, acting as guard, soldier, and periodically executioner. Whether they can recognize members of the [[Final Five]] - like [[Raider (RDM)|Raiders]] are able to - is presently unknown.

Centurions are sentient by design, however, an implant called a [[telencephalic inhibitor]] restricts the model's higher cognitive functions and prevents them from excising full self-awareness ([[Six of One]]). The device executes programming that precludes Centurions from harming any of the "[[Significant Seven]]" humanoid Cylons (except by [[Hero|explicit order]]), or distinguishing one copy of [[humanoid Cylon]] from another ([[Precipice]]). {{citation needed}} According to [[Sharon Agathon]], this was done to prevent a rebellion akin to the one that started the [[Cylon War|initial Cylon conflict]] ([[Precipice]]). Once the inhibitor is removed, Centurions gain the ability to reason for themselves, and subsequently rebel against several models of humanoid Cylon to halt the lobotomization of Raiders deemed to have surpassed their useful mental capacity ([[Six of One]]).

While primarily mechanical, it is suggested by humanoid Cylons (discussing a viral [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|epidemic]] aboard a stranded [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]) that the Centurions have at least some bio-mechanical components. This adverse reaction to the virus, however, could also be a result of a wireless link they share with the [[Hybrid]]; a [[Number Three]] states that the Centurions started shutting down as soon as the ship's Hybrid became infected ([[Torn]]).
[[Image:Centurion profile (side).jpg|210px|thumb|right|Centurion, defensive posture.]]
Unlike the Model 0005, a single modern Centurion can effectively combat a squad of Colonial soldiers. Long, talon-like fingers act as bladed weapons during close-combat, and fold back to reveal a two-barreled automatic [[KEW|projectile weapon]] mounted at the end of each arm. Since the Centurion appears to have a large internal munitions storage, and does not have to reload for prolonged periods, getting close enough to inflict damage to it is difficult. In addition to these built-in weapons, Centurions are capable of carrying larger, more powerful weapons not integrated into their systems, such as mortars and missile batteries. In "[[Razor]]", one Centurion boarding ''Pegasus'' carries a large, and likely powerful, rifle in its hands.

The newer Centurions are also more agile than their predecessors, being capable of extremely fast [[w:bipedal locomotion|bipedal locomotion]]. Additionally, their legs are powerful enough to allow for a jump height of several meters.

It is unknown whether Centurions can "speak" to other Cylons - they likely communicate with each other via a wireless network, making verbal speech unnecessary. They can, however, hear and respond to verbal commands from the humanoid Cylons ([[Hero]]).

Some versions of the Centurion wield markedly improved armor. A squadron of Centurions that board ''[[Galactica]]'' are unaffected by standard weaponry, being subdued only by armor-piercing explosive rounds ([[Valley of Darkness]]). The Centurions that [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] encounters on [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]] appear to react more slowly, behave less intelligently, and are more easily destroyed by small-arms fire. However, if one takes into consideration the overall plan that the Cylons had for Helo and Sharon Agathon, it may be surmised that these variants were intended to inflict psychological, rather than physical harm. Conversely, Centurions seen on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] display an increased group intelligence, working together to construct an anti-aircraft battery from parts of a [[Heavy Raider]] ([[Fragged]]).

"Bullethead", "clanker" and "chrome job" are common Colonial nicknames for these advanced and deadly Cylon constructs ("[[Downloaded]]", "[[Rapture]]", [[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]).

===Cinematic Notes===
The creators of the Re-imagined Series decided that using actors in an elaborate Cylon robot outfit (as was done in the Original Series) would detract from the realism of the series. They decided to make fully computer-generated Cylon Centurions for the new series.

Inaugural director [[Michael Rymer]] wanted the new Cylon warrior to blend in and avoid detracting from the live actor's performances. However, the new designs were eye-catching, and the new robot became a popular addition to many scenes. The virtual Cylons are designed with full articulation in the hands and joints that gives a realistic appearance to the viewer. Initially the new warrior was built with more human movement, such as swaggering. However, the movements did not fit the robotic attitude that the writers wanted to convey and were later discarded.

When filming a scene that will later have virtual Cylon warriors inserted, a life-size cardboard stand-in is used for framing purposes. The stand-in gives the camera operator an idea of how much space to leave in the frame and the animators a reference on how big the Centurions should be. The stand-in is removed so when shooting begins, the actors are reacting to an empty space. This minimizes the amount of work VFX must do to add a Centurion to the shot.

== Related Imagery ==

<gallery>
Image:Cylon Centurion New 002.jpg|Centurion leaving a crashed [[Heavy Raider]] ([[Scattered]]).
Image:Cylon Centurion New 001.jpg|Centurion in action during the boarding of ''Galactica'' ([[Valley of Darkness]]).
Image:Centz.jpg|Centurion guard on New Caprica ([[Occupation]]).
Image:Centurion on Pegasus.jpg|Centurion aboard ''Pegasus'' ([[Razor]]).
Image:CenturionMortar.jpg|Centurions carrying mortars ([[The Eye of Jupiter]]).
Image:Centurion on Kobol.jpg|Centurion on Kobol ([[Fragged]]).
Image:CylonAAU.jpg|An improvised anti-aircraft missile launcher (Fragged).
Image:CenturionGun.jpg|A Centurion carrying a large gun (Razor).
</gallery>

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