Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Continuity errors (TRS)/Archive 1

2010-10-25T20:28:34Z

Tanketai:

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== Lagoon Nebula ==

"the nebula is located in Scorpio, but in the real world it is actually in the constellation Sagittarius."

But they weren't seeing from the "real world" (Our Earth), were they? They were seeing it from the cylon earth.
--[[User:Tanketai|tanketai]] 20:28, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

== Casting Errors ==

Is it clear that the acting change for Zak Adama was for casting reasons, or possibly the change from an extra to a fully fledged actor?
--[[User:Radicaledward|Radicaledward]] 06:21, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

[[Image:Bsg-baltar-adar.jpg|1px]]
Linking Baltar/Adar image to this page to "adopt it" (It's not visible, but it's there). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:10, 31 January 2006 (EST)

== "Jesus" ==

So, now that we know that Tigh came from Earth, does that retcon the reference to Jesus from an ad-lib by the actor? Heh--[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 21:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
:Tigh lived on the original Earth 146,000 years before Jesus lived on ours, so... no. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

:There's our Jesus, the one from Earth 2. There could have been a Jesus on Earth 1 who originated from Kobol. It be no different from "our" Zeus and "their" Zeus, or their Hera and our Hera, and so on and so forth. Earth 1 could have had its own Jesus, who attained some sort of status that would explain why his name would be uttered in such a manner. --[[User:ManofTheAtom|ManofTheAtom]] 22:25, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

::As explained in the article from the writers, this is an ad-lib and has no bearing on the show at all. It needn't be explored further. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:24, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

== VFX Gaffe in an episode ==

New here so putting this for others to verify first... "A Measure of Salvation" - Galactica's raptor noclips' through a raider: Watch their left/port-side wingtip... it passes through a raiders' wing. Just before it enters the tunnel bit of the basestar. [[User:AlexMcpherson|AlexMcpherson]] 21:02, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

User talk:Yashiko

2010-09-22T05:34:57Z

Tanketai:

==All of this has happened before...==

How do I say this in japanese? How has it been translated for the series?
Google gives me このすべては、前に起こっている再び起こるだろう。 but I don't trust it all that much. [[User:Tanketai|tanketai]] 05:34, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

== Questions about Japanese Translation ==

You said that you wanted to discuss with me some issues you had with names and ranks. Please let me know how we can work together on the Japanese translations. You can let me know what issues you had on my talk page, aim: Maikerushiriku or Atlas_Zarek, or YIM:pbmjs.--Zareck Rocks 18:34, 9 March 2006 (CST)

== Character Pages ==

These are all the ones I am working on. If your Japanese ability is intermediate or above (a couple years of study outside of Japan, or one in Japan), you most likely have better grammar than I do, and I invite you to edit these pages for language and grammar, especially the completed pages. And if you see a katakana related error, please let me know here so I can try and avoid '''that''' mistake in future contributions.

=== In Progress ===

[[Lee Adama/jp:リー・アダマ]]

=== Completed ===

[[Zak Adama/jp:ザック・アダマ]],
[[Anne Adama/jp:アン・アダマ]],
[[Joseph Adama/jp:ジョゼフアダマ]],
[[Evelyn Adama/jp:エヴリン・アダマ]]

=== Future Articles ===

[[Caroline Adama/jp:キャロライン・アダマ]]

User talk:Zarek Rocks

2010-09-22T05:33:43Z

Tanketai:

==All of this has happened before...==

How do I say this in japanese? How has it been translated for the series?

Google gives me このすべては、前に起こっている再び起こるだろう。 but I don't trust it all that much. [[User:Tanketai|tanketai]] 05:33, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

==Internationalization==
As I hope you already know I have been working on translating articles into Japanese. I have noticed that I can translate a lot of these articles into Japanese. I have the vocabulary, what I don't know I can look up, but my grammar isn't there. Is this a project that I should be pursuing if my grammar isn't 100%? I feel like even if I wasn't on completely, I could still save whoever comes (maybe no one) after me. If I had the articles mostly translated they'll have to fix parts of an article rather than translating and writing entire articles. Before I continue on with anything else I wanted to see what my fellow bsg wikipedians think. please respond on my talk page [[User Talk:Zarek Rocks]], I'll be posting this there as well. Thank you all for your advice, it's really appreciated.
:I vote go for it. It seems like half the battle in getting an article done is getting it started. Once the initial hurdle is cleared and the article is named correctly, categorized, and linked to, everything seems to take off from there. My 2 cubits anyway...--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 21:44, 6 February 2006 (EST)
: Personally, I follow the saying of "Being there is half the battle." Thus, as long as the main content is there, someone with the grammar know-how can always come up behind you and tweak the article. Remember that this is more a community effort -- no one is expecting any one person to shoulder ''all'' the burden. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:23, 6 February 2006 (EST)
::Well if the great Joe says I should push forward I'll assume that everyone else is chanting so "So say we all!" Thank you both for your comments. I'm going for it then.

::: So say we all. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:51, 6 February 2006 (EST)
::::Ditto. The Wiki is filling daily with users who may also have your skills and be happy to help, language nuggets like me armed only with Babelfish notwithstanding. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:01, 7 February 2006 (EST)
:I'm willing to help too and would like to start making character pages (basic info to start) but would like to discuss naming issues with you for things such as episode names, character rank titles and stuff like that. [[User:Yashiko|Yashiko]] 18:56, 8 March 2006 (CST)
:: I'm probably easiest to contact by email at yashiko61@gmail(dot)com. As well, I have put into katakana most of the character names. When I am done that (depending on how long it takes me to finish a couple papers I'll be working on this weekend) I'll start a template and atleast get the character pages started. [[User:Yashiko|Yashiko]] 13:44, 10 March 2006 (CST)

==Japanese==
I have about three years of Japanese under my belt, although my memory is pretty lousy and I never got to any sophisticated grammatical structures (relative clauses and suchlike). Anyway, if you want someone to proofread a passage you're not certain about, leave a message for me on my talk page and I'll see what I can do. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:24, 7 February 2006 (EST)

== Japanese Characters in Firefox ==
On this computer the Japanese characters show up fine in FF, but on my laptop all I get are the ????'s. My Japanese is basically 0, but I'd rather see the characters than the ?'s. Do you have any idea what I'd need to download on my laptop to see the Japanese correctly? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:45, 10 March 2006 (CST)
*I myself have no experience with FF, so I can't really recommend one download over another. Right now I am using an online dictionary to switch words from romaji/(western alphabet) into Japanese characters. I don't have Word or a Japanese font. That's why I have only done episode data, rather than full episode guides. Sorry I can't be of more help.--Zareck Rocks 14:49, 10 March 2006 (CST)
: I think I found your answer here: http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum21/10192.htm. Hope that helps! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:14, 10 March 2006 (CST)
**I downloaded a couple of Japanese font packages, I'll need to wait until I get Microsoft Word to see if they'll work, but if they do then I'll be good to go. When this happens I'll be able to write whole articles, much faster. --Zareck Rocks 17:03, 10 March 2006 (CST)
:::We search similarly, Joe. (I ran into that link as well.) Firefox was detecting the encoding ok, but apparently I didn't have a Japanese font intalled. I got one installed, rebooted (stupid Windows), and bingo! Kanji! Or Katakana. (It's all Japanese to me.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 18:22, 10 March 2006 (CST)
::::Actually it's a combo of Hiragana, Katakana, and Kanji. Just thought you might want to know, I liked the joke though! --Zareck Rocks 18:28, 10 March 2006 (CST)

== {{{Death}}} ==
If you want {{{Death}}} to disappear on your user page, just create a spot for it in the template call, but leave it blank. It won't even show up (the same is true for most of the fields in that template). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:03, 10 March 2006 (CST)
*Thanks I was just looking at that actually

== Welcome Back! ==

Welcome back! Hope all is going well for you – and happy belated birthday! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:26, 6 March 2007 (CST)

Thanks a lot Joe, it's great to be back! --Zareck Rocks 23:22, 7 March 2007 (CST)

== Thanks! ==
Thanks for pitching in on the podcast transcription. It's extremely encouraging to know that there's another person working on that. There's only 10 more "acts" (including teasers) to go with Crossroads I and II. It looks like you're pretty close on TSAR Act 4 (maybe a minute or so to go), and I may steal back the Maelstrom teaser so that we'll be "caught up" soon. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:27, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

Thanks from me too. I've found the time to verify some acts from TSAR, and I think I'll be able to do some actual transcription on Crossroads as well. Having a third transcriber here really helps. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 07:35, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

::It's not a problem. I'm enjoying the work a lot and I'm glad I'm able to provide the little help I can. You can count on me to help for the final two epi's!--Zarek Rocks 10:04, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

Query, arn't their podcasts that have been also waiting for verification for a while? [[BW:POD#Verification_Required]] ? [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:23, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
:Quite a few, yeah. Does that mean you're volunteering? ;) If not, I think we'll get to that after Crossroads II, when the pressure of one podcast a week is gone. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:41, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
::At the moment, no. :-) later maybe, but I doubt it. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:46, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
::Concur with Catrope on the prioritizing. Let's get the new transcribing done first, and then we can use the "offseason" to catch up on the verification and non-episodic podcasts. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:12, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
:::So say we all. Let's focus on transcribing the podcasts coming out then play catch up in the off season.--Zarek Rocks 10:24, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

== Rollback ==
I rolled back your addition to BW:POD because a section for "Crossroads, Part II" was [[Battlestar_Wiki:Podcast_Transcripts#Crossroads.2C_Part_II|already there]]. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:42, 11 April 2007 (CDT)

User talk:Tanketai

2010-09-22T05:28:32Z

Tanketai: /* Welcome to Battlestar Wiki! */

Tudo isso já aconteceu, e vai acontecer [[Sacred_Scrolls#The_Cycle_of_Time|de novo]].

All of this has happened before, and will happen [[Sacred_Scrolls#The_Cycle_of_Time|again]].

Tout ceci est déjà arrivé, et arrivera [[Sacred_Scrolls#The_Cycle_of_Time|encore]].

Todo esto ya ha ocurrido, y volverá a ocurrir.

All das geschah bereits, und all das wird wieder geschehen.

Tutto questo è successo, e succederà [[Sacred_Scrolls#The_Cycle_of_Time|ancora]].

כל זה קרה לפני יקרה שוב.

Ολα αυτα εχουν ηδη συμβει, και θα ξανασυμβουν.

Все это происходило раньше, bсе это случиться снова.

Omnia illa ante fiebant, et omnia illa [[Sacred_Scrolls#The_Cycle_of_Time|rursus]] fient.

Talk:The Colony/Archive 1

2009-03-18T16:23:47Z

Tanketai: /* Answer to ponder */ forgot to sign it =X

== Answer to ponder ==

I was going to put these in the page, but they seem too long... maybe they could be trimmed up a bit? [[User:Tanketai|tanketai]] 16:23, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

*Since the colony is in a close orbit with a black hole, how are the colonies biological components affected by the massive amount of radiation put out by it?
**Actually, the black hole itself doesn't put out any radiation (hence the name); what radiates brightly is it's accretion disk. HOWEVER, the accretion disk doesn't radiate all the time - only when it's matter is falling into and being accelerated by the black hole. The situation displayed could possibly be a stable accretion disk: it's matter being locked in a orbit around the black hole, but not falling into it. Seems logical to think so, as the ammount of material and gravitational stresses would be an effective protection to the colony.

*When the colony was shown in one scene in [[Daybreak, Part I]], it appeared to be anchored to an asteroid. What function does this serve?
**It could provide a stable orbit, or even raw materials to mine.

*Although the colony must have had obsolete technology and served no purpose but to be a storage facility for the final fives' lab, why was the colony moved at the beginning of the [[Cylon Civil War]]?
**Even though it has old Raiders, it is not necessarily obsolete; it is the Cylon's headquarters.

== Questions to ponder ==

I deleted these from the article page per [[BW:SAC|conventions]], but they deserve to be placed here for pondering. Extended discussions of these should go to the Battlestar Forum, please. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:46, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Open Questions

* Who besides [[Cavil]] and Ellen knows about this place?
** Is [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] aware of it?
** Are the [[Significant Seven]] aware of it?
* Is "The Colony" the correct name? At least this spelling was used by writer [[Jane Espenson]]. <ref name="espenson">{{cite web|url=http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-no-exit-ellen-cavil-boomer.html |title= You asked, they answered: 'Battlestar Galactica' writers take on your 'No Exit' questions |date=2009-02-16 |last=Espenson |first=Jane |format= |language=English |publisher=Chicago Tribune}}</ref>
* Where exactly is "The Colony"? In Cylon-governed space?
** May it be the Cylon name for the [[Cylon homeworld]]?
** Could it be Earth? The colony set up by the the [[Thirteenth_Tribe_(RDM)|13th tribe]] after they left [[Kobol]]?
* Is it really a colony or not?<ref name="espenson"/>
** If it is really a colony, is it possibly founded or inhabited by people from [[Earth]]? Or descendants/incarnations of the [[Final Five]]? Or by copies of the [[Significant Seven]]? Or is it uninhabited?
** Or might it be the name of a ship, maybe the ship of the [[Final Five]]?

Talk:The Colony/Archive 1

2009-03-18T13:16:49Z

Tanketai:

== Answer to ponder ==

I was going to put these in the page, but they seem too long... maybe they could be trimmed up a bit?

*Since the colony is in a close orbit with a black hole, how are the colonies biological components affected by the massive amount of radiation put out by it?
**Actually, the black hole itself doesn't put out any radiation (hence the name); what radiates brightly is it's accretion disk. HOWEVER, the accretion disk doesn't radiate all the time - only when it's matter is falling into and being accelerated by the black hole. The situation displayed could possibly be a stable accretion disk: it's matter being locked in a orbit around the black hole, but not falling into it. Seems logical to think so, as the ammount of material and gravitational stresses would be an effective protection to the colony.

*When the colony was shown in one scene in [[Daybreak, Part I]], it appeared to be anchored to an asteroid. What function does this serve?
**It could provide a stable orbit, or even raw materials to mine.

*Although the colony must have had obsolete technology and served no purpose but to be a storage facility for the final fives' lab, why was the colony moved at the beginning of the [[Cylon Civil War]]?
**Even though it has old Raiders, it is not necessarily obsolete; it is the Cylon's headquarters.

== Questions to ponder ==

I deleted these from the article page per [[BW:SAC|conventions]], but they deserve to be placed here for pondering. Extended discussions of these should go to the Battlestar Forum, please. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:46, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Open Questions

* Who besides [[Cavil]] and Ellen knows about this place?
** Is [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] aware of it?
** Are the [[Significant Seven]] aware of it?
* Is "The Colony" the correct name? At least this spelling was used by writer [[Jane Espenson]]. <ref name="espenson">{{cite web|url=http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/02/battlestar-galactica-no-exit-ellen-cavil-boomer.html |title= You asked, they answered: 'Battlestar Galactica' writers take on your 'No Exit' questions |date=2009-02-16 |last=Espenson |first=Jane |format= |language=English |publisher=Chicago Tribune}}</ref>
* Where exactly is "The Colony"? In Cylon-governed space?
** May it be the Cylon name for the [[Cylon homeworld]]?
** Could it be Earth? The colony set up by the the [[Thirteenth_Tribe_(RDM)|13th tribe]] after they left [[Kobol]]?
* Is it really a colony or not?<ref name="espenson"/>
** If it is really a colony, is it possibly founded or inhabited by people from [[Earth]]? Or descendants/incarnations of the [[Final Five]]? Or by copies of the [[Significant Seven]]? Or is it uninhabited?
** Or might it be the name of a ship, maybe the ship of the [[Final Five]]?

The Colony

2009-03-18T12:56:57Z

Tanketai: correcting the temple of hopes link

<noinclude></noinclude>{{Ship Data
| image=Cylon World-Ship (The Colony).jpg
| title= The Colony
| race= [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]]
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= [[Humanoid Cylon]]s, [[Cylon Centurion]]s
| role= Cylon Homeworld
| weapons= [[Raiders (RDM)|Raiders]], Cylon War-Era Raiders
| img=
}}

'''The Colony'''<ref>Jane Espenson referred to this place as "The Colony" in an interview with the Chicago Tribune, and hinted that it is not necessarily a literal colony.</ref> is a large biomechanical structure similar in composition to the [[Basestar (RDM)|Basestars]]. After the [[Cimtar Peace Accord]], the [[Final Five]] and the [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]] units retreated to this place, a spaceborne Cylon homeworld ([[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]).

==History and Use==

This structure was built around the original ship of the Final Five ([[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]] podcast). The vessel was used by [[Samuel Anders]], [[Tory Foster]], [[Ellen Tigh]], [[Saul Tigh]], and [[Galen Tyrol]] to travel to the [[Twelve Colonies (RMD)|Twelve Colonies]] from the devastated remains of [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]], backtracking the path their ancestors had taken from [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] and then following the path of the twelve tribes of humanity. At one point, the ship stopped at [[The Temple of Hopes]].

The expanded structure was "home" to the [[humanoid Cylon|humanoid]] and Centurion Cylons after the war. The eight numbered humanoid models were presumably developed by Anders, Foster, the Tighs, and Tyrol here. Their original [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]] equipment is still on the Colony ([[No Exit]]), as is their original sublight starship.

The Colony fell into the hands of the [[Number One]]s/Cavils after they [[Boxing|boxed]] the Final Five. Prior to the [[Cylon Civil War]], Cavil kept the Colony secret ([[No Exit]]). Cavil moved the Colony shortly before the start of the civil war, indicating that the structure is FTL-capable ([[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]). It is positioned in a stable orbit inside the [[w:accretion disc|accretion disc]] of a [[w:naked singularity|naked singularity]]. ([[Daybreak, Part I]])

The Colony is currently home base for the Ones, [[Number Four|Fours]], [[Number Five|Fives]], and [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]. [[Hera Agathon]] has been brought to the Colony for experimentation, to determine what makes her a successful human-Cylon hybrid and replicate it ([[Daybreak, Part I]]). There are both original-model [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raider]]s, mechanical fighter craft which are intended to piloted, and the newer autonomous Raider models inside the Colony ([[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]).

==Speculation and Questions==

::Since the colony is in a close orbit with a black hole, how are the colonies biological components affected by the massive amount of radiation put out by it?

::When the colony was shown in one scene in [[Daybreak, Part I]], it appeared to be anchored to an asteroid. What function does this serve.

::Although the colony must have had obsolete technology and served no purpose but to be a storage facility for the final fives' lab, why was the colony moved at the beginning of the [[Cylon Civil War]]?

== Notes ==
{{sourcebox|Cylon homeworld}}
*When Ron D. Moore was questioned why the "Cylon POV episode", "[[Downloaded]]", took place on Cylon-occupied Caprica instead of the Cylon homeworld in an interview with [http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/3206/2/ Now Playing Magazine] on February 23, 2006, he stated that the series will probably not show that planet any time in the forseeable future, explaining that:

::"That episode ("Downloaded") will not have that, and we still don’t have any plans to do that...My instinct is kind of not to go there. I feel like I don’t have a great clear vision of it; at this point if we tried to do something there it would look very familiar and not as interesting as it is in your imagination."

:Moore goes on to say that he felt it was more exciting when left to the imagination, because "It still has to be a place where bipedal creatures can walk around and do things": Presumably, it has to be able to support the humanoid Cylons, who are near-human enough that their home environment would be fairly similar to a human one, and not drastically exotic.

*In the podcast for ''Islanded in a Stream of Stars'' Moore states that originally the writers had an idea that the Cylons had a homeworld they informally called 'Cylonia' but, for the reasons mentioned above, they decided not to visit it. The notion for the Colony as the Cylon homeworld instead came up during the writing of Season 4.

== Related Imagery ==

<gallery>
Image:Cylon World-Ship (Interior).jpg|Older-model Raiders within the Colony ([[Islanded In A Stream Of Stars]]).
</gallery>

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylon Military]]
[[Category:Cylon Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Descriptive terms]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Blood on the Scales/Archive 1

2009-02-09T15:22:55Z

Tanketai:

{{newsection link}}

== Episode Title Confirmation ==

Please submit the source of this episode title's name in the article. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:The source is (kinda) noted in the article: [http://galacticasitrep.blogspot.com/2008/05/angeli-also-rises.html] -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 23:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

==What was that device Roslin and Leoben were using to communicate with the rest of the Fleet?==
Best guess its a part from the Commsystem of Starbucks Viper that was capable of receiving the homing signal from earth, that noone else could receive. We saw Starbuck and Leoben track down the signal on earth so they probably removed it from the Viper and had it with them. Given Starbucks reaction to finding her body and everyone else being told nothing had been found, it imaginable that Leoben simply kept it, as noone else was bothering about it. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 23:02, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

== FTL room damage ==

Am I the only one who thinks the damage Tyrol finds looks like giant scratch marks? [[User:nuxi|nuxi]]
:That was my initial reaction as well. Raptors! I guess we'll find out soon... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 03:25, 9 February 2009 (UTC)
::Isn't that the same damage Adama found in his quartes in the clip shown in that YouWillKnowTheTruth site??? It looks the same!! [[User:Tanketai|tanketai]] 15:22, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Scar

2009-02-09T02:19:10Z

Tanketai: HA! Edited out as I've explained in the Talk page!

: ''This article deals with the episode. For information on the ace Cylon Raider, see "[[Scar (Raider)]]"''

{{Episode Data
| image = 2x15_Scar_KatStarbuck.jpg
| title= Scar
| season= 2
| episode= 15
| guests=
| writer= [[David Weddle]] [[Bradley Thompson]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Nankin]]
| production=
| rating= 1.9
| US airdate= 2006-02-03
| CAN airdate=2006-04-22
| UK airdate= 2006-04-11
| dvd= {{Season 2.5 NTSC DVD release date}} '''US''' {{Season 2 PAL DVD release date}} '''UK'''
| population= 49593
| oldpopulation= 49597
| prev= [[Black Market]]
| next= [[Sacrifice]]
| podcast= Y
| itunes=http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=VWbyALbmqZY&offerid=78941&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%253A%252F%252Fphobos.apple.com%252FWebObjects%252FMZStore.woa%252Fwa%252FviewTVSeason%253Fi%253D119951236%2526id%253D102808898%2526s%253D143441%2526partnerId%253D30
| unbox=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2FB000V20PZC&tag=battlestarwik-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325
}}

== Overview ==

: ''An ace Cylon Raider, nicknamed "[[Scar (Raider)|Scar]]" by the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] pilots, has been causing problems for the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] compete to hunt it down while Starbuck pines for [[Samuel Anders|"a dead guy"]]''.

== Summary ==

* Several [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] pilots have been killed while guarding the ''[[Majahual]]'', an ore mining ship located on top of a metal ore-rich asteroid. The Fleet's goal is to gather sufficient ore there to create two new squadrons of Vipers.
* With the [[Resurrection Ship]] destroyed as well as most of the nearest Cylon fleet, the Cylons are far less brazen in attacks, sending only a few Raiders to harass the mining operation.
* ''Galactica'' stays behind to guard the mining operation with their [[Combat Air Patrol|CAP]], while ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' stays with the civilian fleet at a remote location.
* There is too much debris in the system to use [[DRADIS]] to quickly sight and kill the Raiders. [[Combat Air Patrol]]s are needed instead, using their [[Mark One Eyeball]] to find the Raiders.
* One particular Raider, known as "[[Scar (Raider)|Scar]]", is the cause of the pilot deaths.
* [[Kat]], now a seasoned and very talented pilot, challenges [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] over the "Top Gun" beer stein (currently held by Thrace) with the downing of Scar.
* Thrace's depression over the inability to convince Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] and President [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] to return to Caprica to rescue [[Samuel Anders]] and his [[Caprica Resistance]] causes her to drink excessively and behave very rashly. To suppress her feelings on the inability to fulfill her promise, Thrace begins to tell herself that Anders is dead.
*Thrace turns to [[Sharon Agathon|Sharon Valerii]] for advice regarding Scar. Valerii explains that Raiders can reincarnate as well, and with the [[Resurrection Ship]] destroyed, Scar will do anything to survive.
*Valerii also mentions that "he probably hates you (Thrace) as much as you hate him," as well as asking "how many of us" ''[sic]'' did Scar kill. In an unguarded moment, Valerii and Thrace reminisce over old times, but when Valerii reaches to touch Thrace in friendship, [[Marines]] on guard make it clear that it is not permitted. As a distraught Thrace leaves, Sharon tells her to be careful.
* When a rookie pilot from ''Pegasus'', [[Brent Baxton|BB]], is killed, Kat berates Starbuck for giving him "textbook" advice. Later, Kat berates a hungover Starbuck again for being late to lead her own pilot's briefing as well as assigning [[Snake]] in her place on CAP, which leads to [[Joseph Clark|Jo-Jo's]] death at the hands of Scar.
* Thrace and [[Lee Adama]] talk over drinks, when Thrace propositions Adama for a "quick lay." The two pilots attack each other, clothes flying, but Thrace is too aggressive, which turns Adama's desire almost completely off. She admits that her feelings for Samuel Anders are very confused. When Adama tells her that it's the "living guys" she can't deal with, Thrace is so confused that she slaps Adama, then kisses him for his thoughtfulness in reminding her that he is her friend before she leaves his quarters.
* Starbuck is on patrol with Kat as her wingman when they spot a Raider. Both chase the Raider, but Scar uses that second Raider as a decoy by trying to ambush the Vipers from behind.
* Starbuck's instincts tell her to check their "six" (rear), which successfully locates Scar but leaves her Viper with moderate damage when Scar scores hits on her Viper.
*Starbuck leads Scar into a canyon on an asteroid, flips, and flies at Scar on a collision course. Kat shouts at Starbuck to break off as Scar is a machine and won't break off. Starbuck realizes this; she is making a suicide run, as her mind begins to drift out of focus as she thinks of Anders.
* At the last moment, Starbuck breaks off her [[CBDR]] run, and Scar chases her. Starbuck instructs Kat to ambush him from behind while Starbuck lures him into Kat's killzone, in a similar ambush that Scar attempted on them. The ambush is successful, with Kat winning her challenge over Starbuck.
* Starbuck fills the "Top Gun" beer stein for Kat and congratulates her. Then, Starbuck praises the memory of the many pilots lost to Scar and past battles. Admiral Adama and Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]], both laudable Viper pilots themselves in the [[Cylon War]], attend the celebration. Admiral Adama ends the tribute with "[[So say we all]]."
*Kat places a picture of [[Reilly|Reilly's girlfriend]] in the [[memorial hallway]] in hopes that someone remembers her.
* Training with Helo in the gym, Starbuck says that she could have killed Scar, but she would have killed herself in the process. Helo tells her that backing off and letting her wingman get the kill was the right thing to do. Helo notes that Starbuck didn't make the suicide run, because she has something to live for now in Anders.

== Notes ==

=== Characters ===
*More of the friendship between [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Kara Thrace]] is shown in this episode.
*Kara Thrace, despite serving as a pilot on ''Galactica'' under Lee Adama, is still ''Pegasus'' CAG. She flies under Adama because the two battlestars have combined their resources for the mining operation's defense.
*[[Samuel Anders]] appears in flashbacks (re-used footage) in this episode.
*[[Gaius Baltar]], [[Number Six]] and [[Cally Tyrol|Cally]] do not appear in this episode.
*Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] appears very briefly in this episode. Also, Lieutenants [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] and [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] appear in this episode, seen in [[CIC]], but have no speaking lines.
*Lee Adama doesn't fly in this episode, and is never seen in a [[flight suit]]. A lot of the day-to-day work of the CAG, such as assigning and briefing pilots, falls to Starbuck, with Adama giving more general orders and directions.

=== Story ===
*The survivor count is four less than displayed in "[[Black Market]]", accounting for the deaths of [[Jack Fisk]], [[Phelan]], and Fisk's killer. The survivor count, therefore, commences after "96 hours previously".
*As the episode begins, the mining ship ''[[Majahual]]'' has been conducting operations in a thick asteroid field for 29 days.
*In the podcast, it is revealed that a scene was cut of the pilots auctioning off [[Beano]]'s possessions, a tradition from the British Navy during the Napoleonic War Era. This auction, Ron Moore explains, was a tribute to the fallen, as well as serving the practical purpose of recycling resources. There would be a shot of Apollo holding up Beano's "skin" magazine and taking bids, etc. This "skin" magazine (which is named ''[[Nymph]]'') can be briefly seen when Starbuck is packing it into a box of [[Reilly]]'s personal effects. During the following scene when they are talking about Scar in the rec room ("88 hours ago"), [[Brendan Costanza|Hot Dog]] is reading it, having won the auction.
*A [[List of Deleted Scenes - Season 3 (RDM)#Scar|deleted scene]] for this episode explains that Kat is giving a pilot briefing about Scar at one point (ending with "That's the motherfrakker I'm going to kill") because Starbuck is late for the meeting, so Kat assumes she isn't coming at all and starts without her. In the deleted scene, Starbuck comes into the room right after the original scene ends, argues with Kat for starting without her, and then moves right into the next scene where Starbuck is summarizing the tactical situation for the past month.
*New nuggets are still being trained and added to the Fleet's ranks. Kat's assertion that "no replacements are coming" in "[[Final Cut]]" is no longer relevant with the arrival of ''Pegasus'' and her resources. Also, in "[[Act of Contrition]]", it is mentioned that ''Galactica'' does not have any flight training simulators and thus prefers to train pilots having prior flight experience. With the arrival of ''Pegasus'', the Fleet now has Viper flight simulators and thus potential pilots can now be trained properly, even those with no prior experience.
*Nuggets enter the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] at the rank of ensign after completing flight training.
*Pilot training apparently takes place on ''Pegasus'', with recruits being assigned to ''Galactica'' afterward.

=== General ===
*The [[landram]] from the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] makes a cameo appearance during the introduced to the ''[[Majahual]]''.
*The name "Kassie", which [[Louanne Katraine]] brings up when trying to remember [[Reilly]]'s girlfriend's name, is a nod to [[Cassiopeia]] from the Original Series. That character was often called "Cassie" by [[Starbuck (TOS)|Starbuck]].
*''Pegasus'' has Viper production facilities, one of her more modern capabilities that ''Galactica'' lacks. During the episode, the ''Pegasus'' production team finishes its first combat-ready Viper.
*Thrace and Katraine use the word [[frak|motherfrakker]] in this episode, which is the second use of this vulgarism since its introduction in "[[Valley of Darkness]]".
*The little model plane on top of the "Top Gun" mug sported by Starbuck and Kat is actually a U.S. Navy [[wikipedia:F/A-18 Hornet|F/A-18 Hornet]].
*This episode bears some similarities to the ''[[w:Space: Above and Beyond|Space: Above and Beyond]]'' episodes "[[w:Never No More|Never No More]]" and "[[w:The Angriest Angel|The Angriest Angel]]", both of which deal with the introduction of an "ace" alien fighter and its detrimental effect upon the Earth military's morale, and the ensuing efforts of a main character to hunt him down.
*The song that plays in the final scene of this episode is "[[w:Cavatina (song)|Cavatina]]" by [[w:Stanley Myers|Stanley Myers]], well known as the theme from the film ''[[w:The Deer Hunter|The Deer Hunter]]''.
*Thrace uses a bottle of [[Leonis Estates Sparkling Wine]] to pour Kat her first "Top Gun" mug and to toast the fallen pilots. This type of alcohol was previously used in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]" to christen the [[Blackbird]].

== Analysis ==
*The title "Scar" refers to the "ace" Cylon Raider this episode centers around. While all Cylon Raiders appear visually identical, this particular unit has extensive hull damage, whether from asteroid impacts, scoring from near-misses or other debris, giving it a weathered, craggy look - essentially, "battle scars". It can also refer to the characters' emotional scars, particularly Starbuck's.
*Many of the pilots Starbuck toasts are minor and recurring characters who have died in previous episodes. In the order she lists them:
**[[Dwight Saunders|Flat Top]] - killed in deck accident in "[[Act of Contrition]]", along with twelve others.
**[[Donald Perry|Chuckles]] - killed in action during the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]".
**[["Jolly" Anders|Jolly]] - killed in action in the [[Miniseries]], along with nineteen others.
**[[Crashdown]] - shot by Dr. Gaius Baltar in "[[Fragged]]".
**[[Flyboy]] - killed in action by a Cylon Centurion in "[[Valley of Darkness]]".
**[[Stepchild]] - killed in action during the Battle for the Tylium Asteroid
**[[Fireball]] - killed in action during the Battle for the Tylium Asteroid
*Among those not mentioned are Major [[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]], KIA in the Miniseries, and [[Karma]], KIA in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]". As noted in [[Podcast:Scar#Act 4|the podcast]], this is truthfully reflecting Starbuck's earlier comment that she can't remember the names of all of the pilots that have died.
*During the "previously on ''Battlestar Galactica''" intro, a clip of a scene which has never actually aired before in any episode was played. In the scene, Starbuck argues to Adama and Roslin that they must mount a rescue operation to save the Caprica Resistance, but Adama and Roslin are in agreement that it is impossible and tell her they can't. This is the opening of the [[Pegasus (Extended Version)|extended cut]] of "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]" that was released later on DVD:
**'''Thrace: '''The Resistance base camp is here (''points at a map'') 300 klicks north of the only Cylon airbase in the area...
**'''Roslin: ''' I respect what you're trying to do here, however...
**'''Thrace: ''' We have a ''duty'' to the people we left behind.
**'''Adama: ''' We understand that.
**'''Thrace: ''' We ''have to'' find a way to Jump back to Caprica, and go get them--
**'''Adama: '''--Kara!
*During the "in this episode" sequence of the credits, there are two images not seen in the episode; one of Starbuck standing at a distance, and one of a gun being placed before the camera. These could have been cut from the training scene.
* This episode is the third of the most recent four episodes to begin ''[[Wikipedia:In medias res|in medias res]]'', after "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" and "[[Black Market]]". In terms of how the flashbacks are structured, going back and forth between past and current events, this episode most resembles "[[Act of Contrition]]". (However, the [[Podcast:Black Market|podcast]] for "[[Black Market]]" indicates that beginning that episode with Lee's confrontation with [[Phelan]] was not part of the original script and was done as an act of "desperation".)
*As discussed in [[Podcast:Scar|the podcast]], writers David Weddle and Bradley Thompson are mostly responsible for expanding the minor pilot characters as the series has progressed. They wrote "[[Act of Contrition]]", in which the nuggets are introduced, then "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", which is the second time they all appear (and when Chuckles dies). Kat and Hot Dog reappear in "[[Scattered]]" and "[[Valley of Darkness]]" which Weddle and Thompson also wrote. The character of Kat receives more development since "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", the writers' most recent entry before this episode.

== Questions ==

*As implied by [[Sharon Agathon|Valerii]], is Scar a reincarnation of the Cylon Raider that Starbuck captures in "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]"?
*The Fleet has obtained enough metal ore to eventually construct two new squadrons of Vipers: will they be Mark IIs, or Mark VIIs?
*With Thrace serving on ''Galactica'', who is instructing [[nugget]]s on ''Pegasus''?
*If Raiders reincarnate so that Cylon forces can benefit from their learned experience, why don't [[Cylon Centurion|Centurions]]? ([[Precipice|Answer]])
*Do basestars also have the ability to reincarnate given that they appear to be composed of similar bio-mechanical technology as the Raiders?
*As the [[Resurrection Ship]] recon images (from "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]") only show humanoid bodies awaiting download, how are the consciousnesses of dead Raiders stored and where are they transferred?
* Exactly how many Cylon Raiders were lurking within the asteroid system, including Scar?
* Exactly where is the rest of the Fleet? It's stated that the Fleet is elsewhere, guarded by ''Pegasus'' -- suggesting it has jumped -- however Roslin is aboard ''Galactica'', which is odd as one would expect her to stay with the Fleet, and a communication is received from ''Pegasus'' regarding Viper production, suggesting the Fleet must not have actually jumped.

== Official Statements ==

*According to an interview on Subject2Discussion.com on January 3rd, 2006, along with "Home" (Parts [[Home, Part I|One]], [[Home, Part II|Two]]), and "[[The Farm]]", this is one of Katee Sackhoff's favorite episodes.

* ''Sackhoff discusses her dislike of the Viper scenes:''

: Scar was really tough. It was all those scenes of technical mumbo jumbo so [[Luciana Carro|Luciana [Carro]]] and I decided to add it all together and do it as one big long scene. We were in and out of the Vipers all day long. It is exhausting.<ref>{{cite_news|first=Cullen|last=Ian M.|url=http://scifipulse.net/battlestarnews/Sackhoff_Vipers.html|title=Sackhoff Admits To Hating The Viper Scenes|publisher=SciFi Pulse|page=|date=30 January 2007|accessdate=9 February 2007|language=}}</ref>

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*{{audio|Scar - one Tigh is enough.mp3|''Kat responds to Starbuck's runaway drinking, after being called a "stim junkie".''}}
:'''Kat''': One Tigh on this ship's enough.

*{{audio|Scar - get what we can.mp3|''Drinking heavily late at night, Apollo and Starbuck commiserate over all of the pilots that have died.}}
:'''Apollo''': You know what gets me? I know that in two weeks, I won't remember his face. I can't remember any of their faces after they're killed. No matter how hard I try, they just fade.
:'''Starbuck''': I don't even remember their names.
:'''Apollo''': Names. Oh, let's see, there was- there was [[Flat Top]]. (Starbuck spits some of her drink on him) Who bought it on his thousandth landing. There was [[Donald Perry|Chuckles]]. (Starbuck spits out some more beer) Stop it, already. Please, not funny. All right. It's not funny.
:'''Starbuck''': It is funny. You know [[Laura Roslin|the President]] says that we're saving humanity for a bright, shiny future. On [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]. That you and I are never gonna see. We're not. Because we go out over and over again until someday, some [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|metal mother frakker]] is gonna catch us on a bad day and just blow us away.
:'''Apollo''': Bright, shiny futures are overrated anyway.
:'''Starbuck''': That is why we gotta get what we can. Right now.

*{{audio|Scar - Starbuck's toast.mp3|''After Starbuck pours Kat a drink in her new ''Galactica'' Top Gun mug, she raises a toast to nearly every pilot that has died since their flight from the Colonies.''}}
:'''Starbuck:''' To BB, Jo-Jo, Reilly, Beano, Dipper, [[Dwight Saunders|Flat Top]], [[Donald Perry|Chuckles]], [["Jolly" Anders|Jolly]], [[Crashdown]], Sheppard, Dash, [[Flyboy]], [[Stepchild]], Puppet, [[Fireball]]...(stops, crying)
:'''Apollo:''' To all of 'em.
:'''Admiral Adama:''' So say we all.
:'''Crew:''' So say we all.
:'''Starbuck:''' So say we all.

== Guest stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Kandyse McClure]] as Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Lieutenant [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lieutenant [[Brendan Costanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza]]
*[[Christopher Jacot]] as Ensign [[Brent Baxton|Brent "BB" Baxton]]
*[[Sean J. Dory]] as Ensign [[Joseph Clark|Joseph "Jo-Jo" Clark]]
*[[Christian Tessier]] as Lieutenant [[Tucker Clellan|Tucker "Duck" Clellan]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 2)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Der beste Jäger der Zylonen]]

Talk:Scar/Archive 1

2009-02-09T02:15:45Z

Tanketai: Explaining why I'm about to delete an item in the page. ooo so exciting!

I'd like to point out that the Template box at the bottom of each episode page is wrong: "Scar" comes before "Sacrifice", not after it. This needs to be fixed but I don't know how to do this. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:25, 6 January 2006 (EST)

== Plausible Parallel? ==
Is it possible that this episode is a parallel to the [[The Lost Warrior (TOS)|episode in TOS]] in which there is a mano-e-mano showdown between a Human and a Cylon? I'm curious as to the possibility that RDM is taking each of TOS's episodes and "outdoing" them, both in believeability, realism, and intensity.--Hawke

:Almost certainly not. There is no TOS Viper vs. Ace Raider thing. It's actually a staple of many scifi tv shows for several years; the "Red Baron" episode. The good guys are at war with another race, and the hero must go up against the enemy's ace pilot. Notably, "[[Wikipedia: Space:_Above_and_Beyond|Space: Above and Beyond]]" did this when McQueen took out the ace Chig pilot, Chiggy von Rictoffen (sarcastic nickname they came up with for him). Long story short, no this is not at all from TOS. This is a classic military story, one of those things that doesn't even need to be scifi. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:15, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:: Abandon all hope, Ricimer. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:07, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:::'''The Gods don't want to [[You Can't Go Home Again|hear]] from Starbuck now. Because she's about to go out in that Viper and remove one of Their creations from Their universe. And when she gets back, she's going to drink a bottle of [[ambrosia]] as if it were Scar's frakking bio-mechanical blood, and celebrate his death! ''' -- [[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:14, 28 January 2006 (EST)

::Actually, it's funny that all the episodes that have been outdone were named after they were finished being written and the writers had no prior knowledge of the episodes they were homages to. I got this from the Battlestar Galactica Official Companion. BTW, I saw that Space ABove and Beyond ep and that;s what i thought of when I first heard of the Scar Raider. --Ltcrashdown 22:16, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:::LOL! Just finished watching that episode, and it's one of the best lines ever from that series. Ricimer paraphrased it well. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 19:41, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::::Even when McQueen quotes the Iliad at Chiggy before he finishes him off? "''Looking darkly upon Hector, swift footed Achilles answered, 'I cannot forgive you. As there are no trustworthy oaths between men and lions, there can be no love between you and me. Before then to glut with his blood, Ares, the god who fights under the shield's guard. Now the time comes for you to be a spearman and a bold warrior. You will pay in a lump for all the sorrows of my companions you have killed in your spear's fury.'' None of that "mercy to our enemies" stuff, "Cylons can be people too" things, no; straightfoward revenge. :) --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:07, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Did they do it?==

Ricimer, since I know you tape the episodes, I'll let you watch it again before removing that question. I think you'll agree with me that it's very clearly implied that Apollo stops things before they get that far. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:10, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:I actually watched this with several friends, and we got into a raging debate over whether this happened or not. About a third said no, a third said yes (including me), and a third said they weren't sure at all. It's sort of like how after "Pegasus", a lot of people were asking if Boomer got raped or not, because the editing was (intentionally) chaotic and confusing. However, we all know from the podcast of that that there were two versions and that was officially the "not raped" version.
:The podcast for this episode is ''vague''; he mentions only once the idea that "they'd get so drunk that they'd be in a state where they'd try to have sex with each other"--->OKAY, it wasn't quite that, but the point is he uses the word "try" in such a context (I listened to the podcast with friends) that after repeat listening...It didn't really give evidence one way or the other, plus these weren't the guys that directed it, etc. When *I* saw it, I got the ''impression'' that, through careful editing......frak. I can't put this more delicately forgive me. Frak. Well, to cut through it using Ad-libs; I thought that ''after Starbuck gets her panties pulled down, editing gets chaotic; Starbuck spreads her'' _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''and Apollo proceeds to'' _Verb_ ''her'' _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''with his own (conspicuous)'' _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''however Starbuck is proceeding too rough and really fast and Apollo keeps telling her to "slow down", which in context could mean *any number of things*. Starbuck then removes herself from the "presence" of his'' _Adverb_ _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''just as (off camera) he yanks his towel (or whatever) up, so when we actually see him in his first wideshot, he ''appears'' to have not removed his towel, when in reality he did but put it back off camera. ''--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:30, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::I really didn't find it at all ambiguous, and even if they did accomplish penetration extremely briefly, it's a crass thing to speculate about. The emotional consequences for Kara and Lee are the same regardless. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:23, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:::I am not being crass. I literally turned to the person next to me and said "Hey, wait a minute, did they just do it?" and no one was sure. It's not like I expect us to get any conclusive answeres based on analysis; I'm just saying "we're not sure"--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::::When I was watching it and Apollo had his hand on her ass, I turned to my friend and said, "It's about time" but I spoke too soon...--[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 22:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::: Keep in mind that the editing is chaotic enough that they start fooling around in the pilots lounge...and wind up going at it in one of the bunk rooms. I seriously doubt they got that far. My impression was that Apollo was working on foreplay...and Starbuck was rushing things...*shrug* in the end...who cares?-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]

== Launch Gaffe ==

Was it just me, or when Starbuck and Kat launched from the ''Galactica'' in Viper VIIs, didn't the tube sequence show a Viper '''II'''?--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 02:21, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:Noticed this as well. Apparently the show has no stock footage of a Mk. VII launch sequence. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:22, 4 February 2006 (EST)
::Unless they referred to Kat or Starbuck talking over wireless from within the launch tube, this could be explained as being the "other" Vipers flying on patrol for other parts of the asteroid belt.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:32, 4 February 2006 (EST)
:::Then it's a case of bad editing, as it implies (at least from how I saw it) that Kat's flying a II, as we saw Starbuck getting into a VII.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 02:35, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:::: I think what Ricimer means is that we can intnetionally misconstrue that as seeing someone ''else'' launching, even though, in actuality, it was an editing goof.--[[User:Day|Day]] 20:20, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::::Yes, we could, but it would be quite disingenuous to do so. I think we should call it the way it is. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:24, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::::: Well, depends on whether you want to start talking about how the Vipers changed appearances or whatever by assuming that the mistake makes canon. Anyway... I was just trying to clarify. --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:20, 5 February 2006 (EST)

==You are all driving me mad==
Please, for the love of god, use the "edit" link on the section you are working on. This allows other editors to work on other sections without incurring edit collisions. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:37, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:This place is getting really busy lately. Collisions are becoming more frequent, even on talk pages. Not sure if there is long-term help for this (or any wiki). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 5 February 2006 (EST)

==Props Given on... Old Props!==
Hey, did anyone else spot that [[Landram]] in the openning shot?--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:31, 4 February 2006 (EST)
:I noticed it but didn't know what it was (not a TOS fan). Nice catch! --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 22:41, 4 February 2006 (EST)
::So that's what they were called! I remember seeing them, made me smile when I watched the episode a 2nd time. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 22:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)
:::Maybe somebody could get a shot of the landram for use on the References page? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:04, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== Where did the music come from? ==

I swear that I have heard the background music before... It starts right at the end of "So say we all", and bleeds over through the workout scene. Where is it from, it is making me crazy?!?
: The Deer Hunter. Also, please sign your comments. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 15:05, 5 February 2006 (EST)
: You may sign your comments by using the a string of four tildes: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:04, 5 February 2006 (EST)
: Thank you so much for the origin of the music. It makes even more sense now... Yikes what tie ins this show sneaks in. ~~ LeslieW

== Picture ==

That's a cool pic and all, but it's already on the [[Scar (Raider)]] page, have the entire episode on my drive. I was trying to think of a scene that nicely summarized the whole episode, but I couldn't pick one. Any ideas on what I should take a cap of? --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 16:26, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:The first screen after Kat shoots him, immediately after his wing gets sheered off and there's a cloud of blood everywhere...but not TOO long after that, because as he crashes he gets so banged up that at the end you can't tell it's a Raider anymore; the FIRST shot, just as the wing comes off. Also, possibly one of Scar coming out of the sun just as Starbuck puts her finger up, or one of them fighting him with contrails coming off of their Vipers because of the dust. Upload a few and we'll pick. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:29, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::I thought about the sun one, but it makes a poor cap. Here are the other two, plus one I thought was good as well:
::Any other ideas, lemme know. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 22:47, 5 February 2006 (EST)
:::I like the "Scar-Firing" picture, the right most one. It's easy to see without actually having to click on it. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 22:56, 5 February 2006 (EST)
::::That's my favorite as well. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:05, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::I hate to be picky, but: the one with contrails has the camera so far away that the Vipers look too small, "Scar Firing" is good, but for a character named "Scar" the pic is of his least "scarred" side of his head, and although I like the Scar-Death one, I think that out of context it might be confusing. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:06, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::::Why don't we use the "Scar firing" pic for this article, and leave the existing one alone on Scar (Raider)? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:10, 5 February 2006 (EST)

== In a Room Somewhere... ==

Don't you have the feeling that, in a room somewhere, Richard (Hatch) and Dirk (Benedict) are looking at each other after watching the "moment of drunken resolve" scene between their one-time characters, and... there is a ''very'' awkward silence. What do you suppose is going through their minds? :) -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 00:03, 6 February 2006 (EST)
:Nothing that they probably haven't read before in "slash" fan fiction about their characters before. Besides, Kirk/Spock stuff came (no pun intended) years before. It ''is'' a funny thing to imagine, though. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:14, 6 February 2006 (EST)
::For several years now, whenever I am at a convention where both Richard Hatch and Dirk Bennidict are guests...they seem to do their best to avoid even looking in each others direction.-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]
:::They have their own issues between each other that originated from the original series... -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 18:06, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Kats Costume Change? ==

towards the end of the second act, we get the confrontation between Kat and Starbuck, where Kat punches Starbuck, just before Apollo comes in and orders them "Skids Up in 49 minutes."
At this point Kat is wearing her flight suit (well...half wearing it.)... next time we see her she is wearing her duty uniform (blues) walking through the memorial hallway, pining up the picture of "Beano"'s(?) girlfriend...then back in her flight suit about to jump in her viper.
Are we supposed to infer that this was her recollection/flashback while she was about to take off for her mission? or that with only 49 minutes to prepare for her C.A.P. she took the time to go change into her Blues...wander down to Memorial Hall...then go back..and resuit up for her C.A.P.?
-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]

Well yeah, RDM mentioned that in the podcast; just don't read into everything so much. Yeah, a lot of camerawork/director stuff could be a flashback for the purposes of telling a story; I mean lots of shows intercut this kind of stuff. It's not big revelation. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:02, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Scar's Kill Count ==

Mentioned in this episode, I believe Scar killed 5 viper pilots: Reilly, Beano, BB, Duck, and JoJo. I think Duck was the kid that came to Starbuck for advice since she was telling him to follow BB's lead and never turn but the conversation was a little confusing to me, and it sounded like both were splashed. So 5 Vipers were downed by Scar in this episode and probably a couple others in Resurrection Ship Pt II and mayber earlier episodes. I am certain I heard the name Duck but was confused a little by Starbuck's ommission of his name on the list at the end... -- [[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]]

*Absolutely not. Duck was alive and well. He can be clearly seen in the finale toasting scene at the end. The audio you hear was of Duck shouting at BB to get away from Scar, but that's because BB got separated from Duck. Duck was fine. He was omitted from the list of the dead, because he is not dead.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 17:58, 6 February 2006 (EST)

::"I'm not dead yet..." --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:29, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== Disambiguation ==
Does anybody object to [[Scar]] pointing to a disambiguation between the episode and the Raider itself, rather than going straight to the episode? That's what we did with Pegasus. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 11:44, 3 March 2006 (CST)
:I prefer the Scar pattern to the Pegasus pattern. The disambig page doesn't contain anything meaningful, and if you intended to go to the other article you're still only one click away from it. Scar (Raider) and Scar (the episode) are both destinations, where a disambig page is just a road sign. In fact, I'd even support doing the same with Pegasus if not for the fact that there are three different possible Pegasus locations. Actually, thanks for the reminder, as I try to keep up with the [[Special:Disambiguations]], and Pegasus is a common offender there. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:12, 3 March 2006 (CST)

:If we only have two things it's easier to have a link at the top of the page like we do, saying "for "Scar the Raider" see this page...",etc. Pegasus has a disambiguation page because there are like 5-6 things under that name. Most times, we don't need disambiguation pages (we do use them for like "Adama" or pilot callsigns re-used from the original series like Apollo and Starbuck. That's it. No need for a disambiguation page. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:53, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== "Fullmetal Alchemist" name references? ==

My addition to the notes section:

''"Majahal" and "Scar" are also the names of villains in the anime series Fullmetal Alchemist.''

was undone with the following comment:

''"The Merovingian (→Notes - I'm sorry but I've check wikipedia and googled, but there is no character named Majahal in FMA)"''

Here are a couple refs:
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episodes_of_Fullmetal_Alchemist#Episode_4:_A_Forger.E2.80.99s_Love from Wikipedia's "Episodes of Fullmetal Alchemist"]:
While on their way to Central to try to take the State Alchemy Examination, Ed and Al take a detour to meet an alchemist named Majahal. Majahal’s name appeared frequently in their father’s correspondence in connection with human transmutation.

* [http://www.fullmetalalchemist.com/ official site] (sorry, it's Flash, so I can't deep link... note also the different spelling):
Majhal is a very well respected Alchemist working to better the lives of the people living in his village. Ed and Al learn of him by seeing his name in letters exchanged between the lone Alchemist and their father regarding human transmutation.

If the only similarly-named character was "Scar", this would be too trivial to note, but Majahal/Majhal -> Majahaul is a more plausible candidate for a reference.
--Invalidname

*A) It is not spelled the same B) it is so obscure that it does not warrant mention here. If these were the two primary villians on a show, there would at least be question, but this is just pushing it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:18, 5 March 2006 (CST)

== A worthy quote? ==

Kat's retort to Starbuck's "stim junkie" insult in the pilot's lounge: "One Tigh on the ship's enough." A brutal and efficient comment--killing two officers with one stone. Should it go in the Noteworthy Dialogue section?--[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 10:06 pm, 6 March 2006 (EST)
:Actually, the parallel is even deeper - Kat's slugging Thrace in the face is extremely reminiscent of Thrace doing the same thing to Tigh in the miniseries. I've long felt that Kara was basically going to grow up to be Tigh eventually. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:29, 6 March 2006 (CST)
::Thanks, Peter Farago. Added Kat's "Tigh" comment to the page. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 20:34, 7 March 2006 (EST)

== Moved from Questions ==

Per [[BW:FORUM]], these answers needed to be removed from the questions area. Here's what I removed. These points can probably be re-integrated into the analysis section, though I should reiterate that the analysis sections must not look like a thrice damned forum. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 02:34, 6 December 2006 (CST)

**When ''BattlestarWiki'' [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques/Archive1#Scar|asked]] the writer of this episode, [[Bradley Thompson]], this question he said: "Sharon is speculating. She doesn't know, but it could have happened that way." So it remains an unconfirmed possibility.
**It is likely that the ''Pegasus'' production facilities will create Mark VIIs, as the ''Pegasus'' is a more modern battlestar than ''Galactica'' (which does not have these facilities). Since the Mark IIs are outdated models that were only on ''Galactica'' for museum purposes, the blueprints and equipment molds in the production facilities are most likely not set to produce equipment for the older Vipers.
**They may also decide to produce more of the stealth fighters, as they have now seen their combat and surprise capabilities. However, since these aren't robust fighters and sustain damage easily, the odds favor making more protection over stealth.
**The three basic Cylon models represent something of a spectrum of advancement: from their original, purely mechanical form (the Centurions), to the almost-entirely "organic" forms (the humanoid Cylons). The Raiders are described (podcast, "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]") as supposed to be "in the gap" between [[Number Six]] and a Centurion. Centurions cannot resurrect, and they also contain none of the more advanced bio-mechanical technology the Cylons have developed (as demonstrated by destroyed Centurions, etc). Raiders, on the other hand, ''do'' contain "bio-mechanical" technology, albeit not as advanced as that used in humanoid Cylons. Perhaps the resurrection technology is based on that bio-mechanical "wetware".
***Also, the Cylons may believe that fighter-piloting takes more skill than infantry combat.
**Although humanoid Cylons are truly sentient, Raiders are not. Raiders do have a level of self-awareness, as an animal. Basestars make use of some bio-mechanical materials, but little else is known on how they use their bio-mechanics (This may be answered in a Season 3 episode).
**Based on the population counts or Fleet status, it's not likely that the episode events are running concurrently. In "Black Market," the Fleet is united (else, Apollo could not fly to ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' or the ''[[Prometheus]]''). In "Scar," ''Galactica'' and the ''Majahual'' are in one system while ''Pegasus'' guards the rest of the Fleet in another location.
**As CAG of two battlestars, Apollo need not fly in every mission now with the relatively high levels of existing pilots and new recruits from ''Pegasus'' as well as ''Galactica's'' own pilots. Since Starbuck appears to have returned to her 2nd pilot in command status (acting as CAG in Apollo's absence), she manages some CAG responsibilities on ''Galactica'', such as pilot briefings. Kat appears to brief pilots as well, suggesting she is higher in the pilot command chain than before.
**There may have been bio-mechanical brains in storage we didn't see; also, the ship acts as a transmitter and could simply transmit their consciousnesses to accompanying basestars.

== Asteroid spacing ==
The note about the unrealistic distances between asteroid is quite right (virtually the same mistake has often been made in the series' representations of nebular density), but we never see the asteroid belt in its initial state (i.e. before mining operations commenced). Maybe all those rocks flying around close to each other are debris from the blasting of one or two huge asteroids to get at the desired ore deposits.--[[User:Steve|Steve]] 06:07, 6 December 2006 (CST)

=== Citation ===

Per [[BW:CITE|our Citation Jihad]], we need a better source than Wikipedia. Sadly, Wikipedia is not a primary or secondary source -- an article from a scientific journal would work, Wikpedia does not. (Another thing against Wikipedia, particularly on the article that Boogaloo cited, is that it was listed as lacking sources itself!) Until we have a better cite, I've moved the bullet point here. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:43, 6 December 2006 (CST)

*A classic error made in most sci-fi franchises is made in this episode. It depicts asteroids in an asteroid field being in extremely close proximity with one another. In actuality, however, asteroids are normally spaced very far apart from one another. For more information, check out the [[Wikipedia:Asteroid Belt#The_asteroid_belt_in_fiction_and_film|'In film and fiction' section of the Wikipedia article on asteroid belts]].

*Oh, come on. It's basic science. Just look in any good scientific work and you'll find conformation that asteroids are spaced apart. And I doubt that all those rocks flying about were a result of the mining operations, or they would have got rid of them to stop them hindering the mining. Besides, if all those rocks were the result of one asteroid being blasted apart, it would have to be one '''MASSIVE''' asteroid. [[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] 09:48, 6 December 2006 (CST)

** Regardless, it still needs to be sourced. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:25, 6 December 2006 (CST)

*Here's a source I found:

[[http://www.solarviews.com/eng/asteroid.htm]]

And here's the appropiate sentence from said source:

''Spacecraft that have flown through the asteroid belt have found that the belt is really quite empty and that asteroids are separated by very large distances''

Now ''there's'' a source. Can I put that little bit back in now? [[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] 11:27, 6 December 2006 (CST)
:That's pretty "science-y". The [[Template:Cite web|web cite]] would probably be the best way to cite it. My only concern with it is that the whole article is about our solar system's asteroid belt, but being as small as they are I don't think we could have much definitive info about belts in other systems. So I'd favor slapping a web cite template with that site info, and actually not using the sentence or anything in the article. It's copyrighted text so it's better to just provide the link via the cite (so people can check it themselves). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:53, 6 December 2006 (CST)
:I agree with Steelviper that extrapolation from Sol's asteroid belt doesn't definitively peg this as an error. My understanding (I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm mistaken) is that asteroids can either be closely spaced or not, but a system in which they are closely spaced is unstable - the collective gravity of so many bits of rock in close quarters will cause them to coalesce into some kind of planetary body. The context for what we see on screen is limited - for all we know the asteroids we see may very well be coalescing into one mass, but doing it slowly enough that it's not apparent within the time span of the episode.--[[User:Steve|Steve]] 03:45, 7 December 2006 (CST)
*Well, Sol's asteroid belt is a normal asteroid belt, so in a way it applies to all asteroid belts. And besides, I remember seeing countless asteroids in the distance during the episode. Well, regardless, whether it's a small asteroid or not, it's still an error. Asteroids are never (or extremely rarely at the very least) spaced so close together like they were shown. In deep space, objects rarely congregate so close together--they just hurtle through space. Obviously, the makers of the show used Star Wars as a reference on how asteroids are spaced. 2001: A Space Odyssey got it right: a passing through the asteroid belt is signfied by sighting of a lone, small asteroid shooting through space. Like it or not, it's an error, unless of course the Colonials collected asteroids and put them all together as some sort of bizarre pilot training course or something. [[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] 05:10, 7 December 2006 (CST)
::Sol's asteroid belt is typical for a planetary system of a certain age, but the age of the system the Fleet is mining is never made clear (of course, it has nothing to do with the story). I fully agree that the environment depicted in the episode can't exist in a fully formed planetary system. However, as I understand it, in a young star's protoplanetary disk there would be regions like this, with gas, dust, and rocks of varying sizes all converging to form new and larger planetary bodies. This explanation (that they are mining a dense region in a protoplanetary disk, rather than a Sol-style asteroid belt) would fit nicely with the apparent density of the interplanetary medium in this episode's space sequences - it's so dense that the Vipers have visible wingtip vortices. I share your beef with conventional depictions of asteroid belts, I'm just not sure this qualifies as a clear scientific error or breach of naturalism. --[[User:Steve|Steve]] 06:13, 7 December 2006 (CST)
*Well, I doubt that it would ''that'', as I highly doubt that the Colonials would as imbecilic as to mine in a trubulent proto-star system. And I'd say that it's just a plain scientific error, as nearly all sci-fi franchises make the same mistake. [[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] 07:26, 7 December 2006 (CST)
::Though I imagine it has more to do with the fact that the tight clustering of the asteroids is far more visually appealing. They'd probably accuse the VFX team of laziness if they sent back a rendered scene of just one or two asteroids in frame. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:42, 7 December 2006 (CST)
:::Yeah, I guess you're right. But it's still an error, and I'm going to put it back in, unless someone objects. Oh, and has anyone noticed another error made in the series: asteroids are depicted as having gravity, whereas in real life they don't have enough mass for gravity. Although on the other hand they could have been outfitted with artificial gravity generators...[[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] 09:41, 7 December 2006 (CST)
::::I wouldn't object to the readdition as long as it comes with the citation. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:32, 7 December 2006 (CST)
::::Ditto. That was my only issue with it anyway and now it's been satisfied. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:35, 7 December 2006 (CST)
:::::Well, in it goes then. [[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] 13:31, 7 December 2006 (CST)

:As an astrophysicist in the making, I back up everything [[User:Steve|Steve]] wrote (all his theories are quite correct), and even dare to reply to [[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] regarding his comment about how "imbecilic" it'd be to mine a proto-planetary disc; In fact, despite being turbulent, it is much easier to mine a undiferentiated, proto-planet than an eons old asteroid. (undifferentiated means that heavier elements have not yet sank deeper than lighter ones). I would like to see the part about this being a sci-fi error deleted, as it is not an error per se: it is merely a situation we are not used to. [[User:Tanketai|Tanketai]] 05:02, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

::Given that BSG is a work of fiction that sticks to real physics models models more often than most shows, we fans are still often short of people who can vouch for celestial behavior since none of us (so far) have any formal training about it. So, Tanketai, welcome again to the wiki, and tear this article up to make it correct and/or more plausible than it's present form. Be bold! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 05:21, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

:::So, boldly editing where no astrophysicist has edited before, I'm removing the item about asteroid spacing, using as main argument the following:
:::"However, asteroids in our and other solar systems (...)"
:::We DO NOT know enough of other star system's asteroid belts to dismiss the one portrayed in the episode as a mistake. Taking ours as a definite example is classic example of antropocentrism, and we all know how dangerous that can be. Our galaxy has billions of stars in all stages of evolution; we are merely opening our eyes. [[User:Tanketai|tanketai]] 02:15, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

== Helo and Sharon ==

I might be wrong, but it hit me that this might be the first episode in which [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon]] both appear, but don't have a scene together. If so, is it worthy of mention? --[[User:JemHadar359|JemHadar359]] 23:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Talk:Scar/Archive 1

2008-12-30T05:02:59Z

Tanketai: more on asteroids

I'd like to point out that the Template box at the bottom of each episode page is wrong: "Scar" comes before "Sacrifice", not after it. This needs to be fixed but I don't know how to do this. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:25, 6 January 2006 (EST)

== Plausible Parallel? ==
Is it possible that this episode is a parallel to the [[The Lost Warrior (TOS)|episode in TOS]] in which there is a mano-e-mano showdown between a Human and a Cylon? I'm curious as to the possibility that RDM is taking each of TOS's episodes and "outdoing" them, both in believeability, realism, and intensity.--Hawke

:Almost certainly not. There is no TOS Viper vs. Ace Raider thing. It's actually a staple of many scifi tv shows for several years; the "Red Baron" episode. The good guys are at war with another race, and the hero must go up against the enemy's ace pilot. Notably, "[[Wikipedia: Space:_Above_and_Beyond|Space: Above and Beyond]]" did this when McQueen took out the ace Chig pilot, Chiggy von Rictoffen (sarcastic nickname they came up with for him). Long story short, no this is not at all from TOS. This is a classic military story, one of those things that doesn't even need to be scifi. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:15, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:: Abandon all hope, Ricimer. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:07, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:::'''The Gods don't want to [[You Can't Go Home Again|hear]] from Starbuck now. Because she's about to go out in that Viper and remove one of Their creations from Their universe. And when she gets back, she's going to drink a bottle of [[ambrosia]] as if it were Scar's frakking bio-mechanical blood, and celebrate his death! ''' -- [[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:14, 28 January 2006 (EST)

::Actually, it's funny that all the episodes that have been outdone were named after they were finished being written and the writers had no prior knowledge of the episodes they were homages to. I got this from the Battlestar Galactica Official Companion. BTW, I saw that Space ABove and Beyond ep and that;s what i thought of when I first heard of the Scar Raider. --Ltcrashdown 22:16, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:::LOL! Just finished watching that episode, and it's one of the best lines ever from that series. Ricimer paraphrased it well. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 19:41, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::::Even when McQueen quotes the Iliad at Chiggy before he finishes him off? "''Looking darkly upon Hector, swift footed Achilles answered, 'I cannot forgive you. As there are no trustworthy oaths between men and lions, there can be no love between you and me. Before then to glut with his blood, Ares, the god who fights under the shield's guard. Now the time comes for you to be a spearman and a bold warrior. You will pay in a lump for all the sorrows of my companions you have killed in your spear's fury.'' None of that "mercy to our enemies" stuff, "Cylons can be people too" things, no; straightfoward revenge. :) --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:07, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Did they do it?==

Ricimer, since I know you tape the episodes, I'll let you watch it again before removing that question. I think you'll agree with me that it's very clearly implied that Apollo stops things before they get that far. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:10, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:I actually watched this with several friends, and we got into a raging debate over whether this happened or not. About a third said no, a third said yes (including me), and a third said they weren't sure at all. It's sort of like how after "Pegasus", a lot of people were asking if Boomer got raped or not, because the editing was (intentionally) chaotic and confusing. However, we all know from the podcast of that that there were two versions and that was officially the "not raped" version.
:The podcast for this episode is ''vague''; he mentions only once the idea that "they'd get so drunk that they'd be in a state where they'd try to have sex with each other"--->OKAY, it wasn't quite that, but the point is he uses the word "try" in such a context (I listened to the podcast with friends) that after repeat listening...It didn't really give evidence one way or the other, plus these weren't the guys that directed it, etc. When *I* saw it, I got the ''impression'' that, through careful editing......frak. I can't put this more delicately forgive me. Frak. Well, to cut through it using Ad-libs; I thought that ''after Starbuck gets her panties pulled down, editing gets chaotic; Starbuck spreads her'' _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''and Apollo proceeds to'' _Verb_ ''her'' _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''with his own (conspicuous)'' _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''however Starbuck is proceeding too rough and really fast and Apollo keeps telling her to "slow down", which in context could mean *any number of things*. Starbuck then removes herself from the "presence" of his'' _Adverb_ _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''just as (off camera) he yanks his towel (or whatever) up, so when we actually see him in his first wideshot, he ''appears'' to have not removed his towel, when in reality he did but put it back off camera. ''--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:30, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::I really didn't find it at all ambiguous, and even if they did accomplish penetration extremely briefly, it's a crass thing to speculate about. The emotional consequences for Kara and Lee are the same regardless. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:23, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:::I am not being crass. I literally turned to the person next to me and said "Hey, wait a minute, did they just do it?" and no one was sure. It's not like I expect us to get any conclusive answeres based on analysis; I'm just saying "we're not sure"--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::::When I was watching it and Apollo had his hand on her ass, I turned to my friend and said, "It's about time" but I spoke too soon...--[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 22:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::: Keep in mind that the editing is chaotic enough that they start fooling around in the pilots lounge...and wind up going at it in one of the bunk rooms. I seriously doubt they got that far. My impression was that Apollo was working on foreplay...and Starbuck was rushing things...*shrug* in the end...who cares?-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]

== Launch Gaffe ==

Was it just me, or when Starbuck and Kat launched from the ''Galactica'' in Viper VIIs, didn't the tube sequence show a Viper '''II'''?--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 02:21, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:Noticed this as well. Apparently the show has no stock footage of a Mk. VII launch sequence. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:22, 4 February 2006 (EST)
::Unless they referred to Kat or Starbuck talking over wireless from within the launch tube, this could be explained as being the "other" Vipers flying on patrol for other parts of the asteroid belt.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:32, 4 February 2006 (EST)
:::Then it's a case of bad editing, as it implies (at least from how I saw it) that Kat's flying a II, as we saw Starbuck getting into a VII.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 02:35, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:::: I think what Ricimer means is that we can intnetionally misconstrue that as seeing someone ''else'' launching, even though, in actuality, it was an editing goof.--[[User:Day|Day]] 20:20, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::::Yes, we could, but it would be quite disingenuous to do so. I think we should call it the way it is. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:24, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::::: Well, depends on whether you want to start talking about how the Vipers changed appearances or whatever by assuming that the mistake makes canon. Anyway... I was just trying to clarify. --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:20, 5 February 2006 (EST)

==You are all driving me mad==
Please, for the love of god, use the "edit" link on the section you are working on. This allows other editors to work on other sections without incurring edit collisions. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:37, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:This place is getting really busy lately. Collisions are becoming more frequent, even on talk pages. Not sure if there is long-term help for this (or any wiki). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 5 February 2006 (EST)

==Props Given on... Old Props!==
Hey, did anyone else spot that [[Landram]] in the openning shot?--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:31, 4 February 2006 (EST)
:I noticed it but didn't know what it was (not a TOS fan). Nice catch! --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 22:41, 4 February 2006 (EST)
::So that's what they were called! I remember seeing them, made me smile when I watched the episode a 2nd time. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 22:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)
:::Maybe somebody could get a shot of the landram for use on the References page? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:04, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== Where did the music come from? ==

I swear that I have heard the background music before... It starts right at the end of "So say we all", and bleeds over through the workout scene. Where is it from, it is making me crazy?!?
: The Deer Hunter. Also, please sign your comments. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 15:05, 5 February 2006 (EST)
: You may sign your comments by using the a string of four tildes: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:04, 5 February 2006 (EST)
: Thank you so much for the origin of the music. It makes even more sense now... Yikes what tie ins this show sneaks in. ~~ LeslieW

== Picture ==

That's a cool pic and all, but it's already on the [[Scar (Raider)]] page, have the entire episode on my drive. I was trying to think of a scene that nicely summarized the whole episode, but I couldn't pick one. Any ideas on what I should take a cap of? --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 16:26, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:The first screen after Kat shoots him, immediately after his wing gets sheered off and there's a cloud of blood everywhere...but not TOO long after that, because as he crashes he gets so banged up that at the end you can't tell it's a Raider anymore; the FIRST shot, just as the wing comes off. Also, possibly one of Scar coming out of the sun just as Starbuck puts her finger up, or one of them fighting him with contrails coming off of their Vipers because of the dust. Upload a few and we'll pick. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:29, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::I thought about the sun one, but it makes a poor cap. Here are the other two, plus one I thought was good as well:
::Any other ideas, lemme know. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 22:47, 5 February 2006 (EST)
:::I like the "Scar-Firing" picture, the right most one. It's easy to see without actually having to click on it. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 22:56, 5 February 2006 (EST)
::::That's my favorite as well. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:05, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::I hate to be picky, but: the one with contrails has the camera so far away that the Vipers look too small, "Scar Firing" is good, but for a character named "Scar" the pic is of his least "scarred" side of his head, and although I like the Scar-Death one, I think that out of context it might be confusing. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:06, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::::Why don't we use the "Scar firing" pic for this article, and leave the existing one alone on Scar (Raider)? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:10, 5 February 2006 (EST)

== In a Room Somewhere... ==

Don't you have the feeling that, in a room somewhere, Richard (Hatch) and Dirk (Benedict) are looking at each other after watching the "moment of drunken resolve" scene between their one-time characters, and... there is a ''very'' awkward silence. What do you suppose is going through their minds? :) -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 00:03, 6 February 2006 (EST)
:Nothing that they probably haven't read before in "slash" fan fiction about their characters before. Besides, Kirk/Spock stuff came (no pun intended) years before. It ''is'' a funny thing to imagine, though. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:14, 6 February 2006 (EST)
::For several years now, whenever I am at a convention where both Richard Hatch and Dirk Bennidict are guests...they seem to do their best to avoid even looking in each others direction.-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]
:::They have their own issues between each other that originated from the original series... -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 18:06, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Kats Costume Change? ==

towards the end of the second act, we get the confrontation between Kat and Starbuck, where Kat punches Starbuck, just before Apollo comes in and orders them "Skids Up in 49 minutes."
At this point Kat is wearing her flight suit (well...half wearing it.)... next time we see her she is wearing her duty uniform (blues) walking through the memorial hallway, pining up the picture of "Beano"'s(?) girlfriend...then back in her flight suit about to jump in her viper.
Are we supposed to infer that this was her recollection/flashback while she was about to take off for her mission? or that with only 49 minutes to prepare for her C.A.P. she took the time to go change into her Blues...wander down to Memorial Hall...then go back..and resuit up for her C.A.P.?
-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]

Well yeah, RDM mentioned that in the podcast; just don't read into everything so much. Yeah, a lot of camerawork/director stuff could be a flashback for the purposes of telling a story; I mean lots of shows intercut this kind of stuff. It's not big revelation. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:02, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Scar's Kill Count ==

Mentioned in this episode, I believe Scar killed 5 viper pilots: Reilly, Beano, BB, Duck, and JoJo. I think Duck was the kid that came to Starbuck for advice since she was telling him to follow BB's lead and never turn but the conversation was a little confusing to me, and it sounded like both were splashed. So 5 Vipers were downed by Scar in this episode and probably a couple others in Resurrection Ship Pt II and mayber earlier episodes. I am certain I heard the name Duck but was confused a little by Starbuck's ommission of his name on the list at the end... -- [[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]]

*Absolutely not. Duck was alive and well. He can be clearly seen in the finale toasting scene at the end. The audio you hear was of Duck shouting at BB to get away from Scar, but that's because BB got separated from Duck. Duck was fine. He was omitted from the list of the dead, because he is not dead.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 17:58, 6 February 2006 (EST)

::"I'm not dead yet..." --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:29, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== Disambiguation ==
Does anybody object to [[Scar]] pointing to a disambiguation between the episode and the Raider itself, rather than going straight to the episode? That's what we did with Pegasus. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 11:44, 3 March 2006 (CST)
:I prefer the Scar pattern to the Pegasus pattern. The disambig page doesn't contain anything meaningful, and if you intended to go to the other article you're still only one click away from it. Scar (Raider) and Scar (the episode) are both destinations, where a disambig page is just a road sign. In fact, I'd even support doing the same with Pegasus if not for the fact that there are three different possible Pegasus locations. Actually, thanks for the reminder, as I try to keep up with the [[Special:Disambiguations]], and Pegasus is a common offender there. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:12, 3 March 2006 (CST)

:If we only have two things it's easier to have a link at the top of the page like we do, saying "for "Scar the Raider" see this page...",etc. Pegasus has a disambiguation page because there are like 5-6 things under that name. Most times, we don't need disambiguation pages (we do use them for like "Adama" or pilot callsigns re-used from the original series like Apollo and Starbuck. That's it. No need for a disambiguation page. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:53, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== "Fullmetal Alchemist" name references? ==

My addition to the notes section:

''"Majahal" and "Scar" are also the names of villains in the anime series Fullmetal Alchemist.''

was undone with the following comment:

''"The Merovingian (→Notes - I'm sorry but I've check wikipedia and googled, but there is no character named Majahal in FMA)"''

Here are a couple refs:
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episodes_of_Fullmetal_Alchemist#Episode_4:_A_Forger.E2.80.99s_Love from Wikipedia's "Episodes of Fullmetal Alchemist"]:
While on their way to Central to try to take the State Alchemy Examination, Ed and Al take a detour to meet an alchemist named Majahal. Majahal’s name appeared frequently in their father’s correspondence in connection with human transmutation.

* [http://www.fullmetalalchemist.com/ official site] (sorry, it's Flash, so I can't deep link... note also the different spelling):
Majhal is a very well respected Alchemist working to better the lives of the people living in his village. Ed and Al learn of him by seeing his name in letters exchanged between the lone Alchemist and their father regarding human transmutation.

If the only similarly-named character was "Scar", this would be too trivial to note, but Majahal/Majhal -> Majahaul is a more plausible candidate for a reference.
--Invalidname

*A) It is not spelled the same B) it is so obscure that it does not warrant mention here. If these were the two primary villians on a show, there would at least be question, but this is just pushing it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:18, 5 March 2006 (CST)

== A worthy quote? ==

Kat's retort to Starbuck's "stim junkie" insult in the pilot's lounge: "One Tigh on the ship's enough." A brutal and efficient comment--killing two officers with one stone. Should it go in the Noteworthy Dialogue section?--[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 10:06 pm, 6 March 2006 (EST)
:Actually, the parallel is even deeper - Kat's slugging Thrace in the face is extremely reminiscent of Thrace doing the same thing to Tigh in the miniseries. I've long felt that Kara was basically going to grow up to be Tigh eventually. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:29, 6 March 2006 (CST)
::Thanks, Peter Farago. Added Kat's "Tigh" comment to the page. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 20:34, 7 March 2006 (EST)

== Moved from Questions ==

Per [[BW:FORUM]], these answers needed to be removed from the questions area. Here's what I removed. These points can probably be re-integrated into the analysis section, though I should reiterate that the analysis sections must not look like a thrice damned forum. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 02:34, 6 December 2006 (CST)

**When ''BattlestarWiki'' [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques/Archive1#Scar|asked]] the writer of this episode, [[Bradley Thompson]], this question he said: "Sharon is speculating. She doesn't know, but it could have happened that way." So it remains an unconfirmed possibility.
**It is likely that the ''Pegasus'' production facilities will create Mark VIIs, as the ''Pegasus'' is a more modern battlestar than ''Galactica'' (which does not have these facilities). Since the Mark IIs are outdated models that were only on ''Galactica'' for museum purposes, the blueprints and equipment molds in the production facilities are most likely not set to produce equipment for the older Vipers.
**They may also decide to produce more of the stealth fighters, as they have now seen their combat and surprise capabilities. However, since these aren't robust fighters and sustain damage easily, the odds favor making more protection over stealth.
**The three basic Cylon models represent something of a spectrum of advancement: from their original, purely mechanical form (the Centurions), to the almost-entirely "organic" forms (the humanoid Cylons). The Raiders are described (podcast, "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]") as supposed to be "in the gap" between [[Number Six]] and a Centurion. Centurions cannot resurrect, and they also contain none of the more advanced bio-mechanical technology the Cylons have developed (as demonstrated by destroyed Centurions, etc). Raiders, on the other hand, ''do'' contain "bio-mechanical" technology, albeit not as advanced as that used in humanoid Cylons. Perhaps the resurrection technology is based on that bio-mechanical "wetware".
***Also, the Cylons may believe that fighter-piloting takes more skill than infantry combat.
**Although humanoid Cylons are truly sentient, Raiders are not. Raiders do have a level of self-awareness, as an animal. Basestars make use of some bio-mechanical materials, but little else is known on how they use their bio-mechanics (This may be answered in a Season 3 episode).
**Based on the population counts or Fleet status, it's not likely that the episode events are running concurrently. In "Black Market," the Fleet is united (else, Apollo could not fly to ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' or the ''[[Prometheus]]''). In "Scar," ''Galactica'' and the ''Majahual'' are in one system while ''Pegasus'' guards the rest of the Fleet in another location.
**As CAG of two battlestars, Apollo need not fly in every mission now with the relatively high levels of existing pilots and new recruits from ''Pegasus'' as well as ''Galactica's'' own pilots. Since Starbuck appears to have returned to her 2nd pilot in command status (acting as CAG in Apollo's absence), she manages some CAG responsibilities on ''Galactica'', such as pilot briefings. Kat appears to brief pilots as well, suggesting she is higher in the pilot command chain than before.
**There may have been bio-mechanical brains in storage we didn't see; also, the ship acts as a transmitter and could simply transmit their consciousnesses to accompanying basestars.

== Asteroid spacing ==
The note about the unrealistic distances between asteroid is quite right (virtually the same mistake has often been made in the series' representations of nebular density), but we never see the asteroid belt in its initial state (i.e. before mining operations commenced). Maybe all those rocks flying around close to each other are debris from the blasting of one or two huge asteroids to get at the desired ore deposits.--[[User:Steve|Steve]] 06:07, 6 December 2006 (CST)

=== Citation ===

Per [[BW:CITE|our Citation Jihad]], we need a better source than Wikipedia. Sadly, Wikipedia is not a primary or secondary source -- an article from a scientific journal would work, Wikpedia does not. (Another thing against Wikipedia, particularly on the article that Boogaloo cited, is that it was listed as lacking sources itself!) Until we have a better cite, I've moved the bullet point here. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:43, 6 December 2006 (CST)

*A classic error made in most sci-fi franchises is made in this episode. It depicts asteroids in an asteroid field being in extremely close proximity with one another. In actuality, however, asteroids are normally spaced very far apart from one another. For more information, check out the [[Wikipedia:Asteroid Belt#The_asteroid_belt_in_fiction_and_film|'In film and fiction' section of the Wikipedia article on asteroid belts]].

*Oh, come on. It's basic science. Just look in any good scientific work and you'll find conformation that asteroids are spaced apart. And I doubt that all those rocks flying about were a result of the mining operations, or they would have got rid of them to stop them hindering the mining. Besides, if all those rocks were the result of one asteroid being blasted apart, it would have to be one '''MASSIVE''' asteroid. [[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] 09:48, 6 December 2006 (CST)

** Regardless, it still needs to be sourced. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:25, 6 December 2006 (CST)

*Here's a source I found:

[[http://www.solarviews.com/eng/asteroid.htm]]

And here's the appropiate sentence from said source:

''Spacecraft that have flown through the asteroid belt have found that the belt is really quite empty and that asteroids are separated by very large distances''

Now ''there's'' a source. Can I put that little bit back in now? [[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] 11:27, 6 December 2006 (CST)
:That's pretty "science-y". The [[Template:Cite web|web cite]] would probably be the best way to cite it. My only concern with it is that the whole article is about our solar system's asteroid belt, but being as small as they are I don't think we could have much definitive info about belts in other systems. So I'd favor slapping a web cite template with that site info, and actually not using the sentence or anything in the article. It's copyrighted text so it's better to just provide the link via the cite (so people can check it themselves). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:53, 6 December 2006 (CST)
:I agree with Steelviper that extrapolation from Sol's asteroid belt doesn't definitively peg this as an error. My understanding (I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm mistaken) is that asteroids can either be closely spaced or not, but a system in which they are closely spaced is unstable - the collective gravity of so many bits of rock in close quarters will cause them to coalesce into some kind of planetary body. The context for what we see on screen is limited - for all we know the asteroids we see may very well be coalescing into one mass, but doing it slowly enough that it's not apparent within the time span of the episode.--[[User:Steve|Steve]] 03:45, 7 December 2006 (CST)
*Well, Sol's asteroid belt is a normal asteroid belt, so in a way it applies to all asteroid belts. And besides, I remember seeing countless asteroids in the distance during the episode. Well, regardless, whether it's a small asteroid or not, it's still an error. Asteroids are never (or extremely rarely at the very least) spaced so close together like they were shown. In deep space, objects rarely congregate so close together--they just hurtle through space. Obviously, the makers of the show used Star Wars as a reference on how asteroids are spaced. 2001: A Space Odyssey got it right: a passing through the asteroid belt is signfied by sighting of a lone, small asteroid shooting through space. Like it or not, it's an error, unless of course the Colonials collected asteroids and put them all together as some sort of bizarre pilot training course or something. [[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] 05:10, 7 December 2006 (CST)
::Sol's asteroid belt is typical for a planetary system of a certain age, but the age of the system the Fleet is mining is never made clear (of course, it has nothing to do with the story). I fully agree that the environment depicted in the episode can't exist in a fully formed planetary system. However, as I understand it, in a young star's protoplanetary disk there would be regions like this, with gas, dust, and rocks of varying sizes all converging to form new and larger planetary bodies. This explanation (that they are mining a dense region in a protoplanetary disk, rather than a Sol-style asteroid belt) would fit nicely with the apparent density of the interplanetary medium in this episode's space sequences - it's so dense that the Vipers have visible wingtip vortices. I share your beef with conventional depictions of asteroid belts, I'm just not sure this qualifies as a clear scientific error or breach of naturalism. --[[User:Steve|Steve]] 06:13, 7 December 2006 (CST)
*Well, I doubt that it would ''that'', as I highly doubt that the Colonials would as imbecilic as to mine in a trubulent proto-star system. And I'd say that it's just a plain scientific error, as nearly all sci-fi franchises make the same mistake. [[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] 07:26, 7 December 2006 (CST)
::Though I imagine it has more to do with the fact that the tight clustering of the asteroids is far more visually appealing. They'd probably accuse the VFX team of laziness if they sent back a rendered scene of just one or two asteroids in frame. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:42, 7 December 2006 (CST)
:::Yeah, I guess you're right. But it's still an error, and I'm going to put it back in, unless someone objects. Oh, and has anyone noticed another error made in the series: asteroids are depicted as having gravity, whereas in real life they don't have enough mass for gravity. Although on the other hand they could have been outfitted with artificial gravity generators...[[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] 09:41, 7 December 2006 (CST)
::::I wouldn't object to the readdition as long as it comes with the citation. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:32, 7 December 2006 (CST)
::::Ditto. That was my only issue with it anyway and now it's been satisfied. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:35, 7 December 2006 (CST)
:::::Well, in it goes then. [[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] 13:31, 7 December 2006 (CST)

:As an astrophysicist in the making, I back up everything [[User:Steve|Steve]] wrote (all his theories are quite correct), and even dare to reply to [[User:Boogaloo|Boogaloo]] regarding his comment about how "imbecilic" it'd be to mine a proto-planetary disc; In fact, despite being turbulent, it is much easier to mine a undiferentiated, proto-planet than an eons old asteroid. (undifferentiated means that heavier elements have not yet sank deeper than lighter ones). I would like to see the part about this being a sci-fi error deleted, as it is not an error per se: it is merely a situation we are not used to. [[User:Tanketai|Tanketai]] 05:02, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

== Helo and Sharon ==

I might be wrong, but it hit me that this might be the first episode in which [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon]] both appear, but don't have a scene together. If so, is it worthy of mention? --[[User:JemHadar359|JemHadar359]] 23:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC)