Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Air Wing

2007-03-31T06:59:39Z

TaKometer:

{{merge|viper wings}}

An '''Air Wing''' is composed of all [[Viper]] squadrons, [[Raptor]]s and [[Refueling tanker|support ships]] assigned to a [[battlestar]].

The Air Wing is commanded by the battlestar's senior pilot who is known as the [[CAG|Commander, Air Group]], generally referred to as "CAG". The term Air Group is only used in the title of the CAG as in practise the Viper and Raptor force is called the Air Wing ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

==See Also==
* [[Squadrons of Galactica]] - for information on the ''Galactica'' Air Wing
* [[Pegasus (RDM)#Air Wing|Pegasus]] - for information on the ''Pegasus'' Air Wing

==Notes==
* The term Air Group is technically obsolete in the U.S. Air Force and Navy as Air Groups are now known as Air Wings.
* The above fact is reflected in ''Battlestar Galactica'' due a statement made by Admiral [[Helena Cain]] in "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]".

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
[[Category:Terminology (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Media:Example.ogg]]

Air Wing

2007-03-31T06:59:25Z

TaKometer:

{merge|viper wings}

An '''Air Wing''' is composed of all [[Viper]] squadrons, [[Raptor]]s and [[Refueling tanker|support ships]] assigned to a [[battlestar]].

The Air Wing is commanded by the battlestar's senior pilot who is known as the [[CAG|Commander, Air Group]], generally referred to as "CAG". The term Air Group is only used in the title of the CAG as in practise the Viper and Raptor force is called the Air Wing ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

==See Also==
* [[Squadrons of Galactica]] - for information on the ''Galactica'' Air Wing
* [[Pegasus (RDM)#Air Wing|Pegasus]] - for information on the ''Pegasus'' Air Wing

==Notes==
* The term Air Group is technically obsolete in the U.S. Air Force and Navy as Air Groups are now known as Air Wings.
* The above fact is reflected in ''Battlestar Galactica'' due a statement made by Admiral [[Helena Cain]] in "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]".

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
[[Category:Terminology (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

User talk:TaKometer

2007-03-31T06:57:53Z

TaKometer:

== Welcome to Battlestar Wiki! ==
Welcome to the Wiki, TaKometer. Feel free to tell us about yourself on [[User:TaKometer|your user page]]. Before you get started on other edits, please read the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|Standards and Conventions]], which details the policies we use in editing pages (this differs from many other wikis in its particular use of verb tense, abbreviations, formatting, and the like). If you need help in learning how to use the MediaWiki tools supported here, you can check out the [[BW:TUT|tutorial]] and the [[BW:MARK|wiki markup code]] pages for assistance.

Please read the articles [[Battlestar Wiki:What is Battlestar Wiki|"What is Battlestar Wiki"]] and [[Battlestar Wiki:What Battlestar Wiki is not|"What Battlestar Wiki is Not."]] This important information details what contributions are acceptable in this encyclopedia.

We encourage you to participate in any [[Battlestar Wiki:Project List|projects]] on Battlestar Wiki, which work to enhance a particular subject or extension of the wiki. These include the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|Original Series Article Development Project]] and several [[Battlestar Wiki:Translation Project|language translations of Battlestar Wiki]]. If you have a new idea for a new project, visit the [[BW:TANK|Think Tank]], where we hash out large-scale ideas before implementing them.

Also, if you have any questions or suggestions you wish to offer, please feel free to do so either on an article's talk page that's relevant to the subject, the [[Battlestar Wiki:Wikipedian Quorum|Wikipedian Quorum]] or [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|the Administrators' noticeboard]]. Remember to sign your posts on any talk pages using four tildes (~~~~)!

We look forward to your contributions to the community!
--[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:40, 13 November 2006 (CST)

== Creating redirects ==

Just to let you know, it's not necessary to copy and paste a previously established article in order to create a new name for the article, as you did with [[Viper Wings]]. ("Viper Wings" was essentially a slightly modified version of "[[Squadrons of Galactica]]".) You can simply use [[BW:MARK|redirects]] to achieve the same effect by editing a page and adding: "<code><nowiki>#REDIRECT [[Page Name]]</nowiki></code>. Good editing! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 04:21, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

:I know, I wanted to make a provisional page to propose a change from "squadron" to "wing".

Viper Wings

2007-03-31T06:56:11Z

TaKometer:

[[Image:ViperWepsSchool_AoC.JPG|thumb|right|2nd Viper Wing and Viper Weapons School crests ([[Act of Contrition]]).]]
Numerous wing insignia are visible on the walls of the pilots' [[Pilot ready rooms|ready room]] on [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']]. The wings often can contain both [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] and supporting [[Raptor]] pilots.

Each battlestar is assigned wings consisting of multiple squadrons, the wing(s) assigned to any given battlestar, and older battlestars may accrue a long list of wings which have launched from its decks.

The squadron patches are numbered in sequence beginning with 1 (Primus). The exception is the Viper Weapons School patch, a golden version of the standard Viper patch.

Known Wings include:
*Fighter Wing 1 Primus
*Fighter Wing 3 Vigilantes
*Fighter Wing 4 Demons
*Fighter Wing 6 Vampires
*Raptor Wing 7 Battleaxe

Of note, the standard Raptor patch is labeled "Fighter Squadron 10 Raptors".

<div style="clear: both;"></div>
== Primus ==
[[Image:Primusphoto.jpg|thumb|right|200px|The Primus patch is visible in this old photo of William Adama.]]
'''Primus''' is the name of the 1st Viper Wing of the [[Colonial Fleet]], although it is unknown if it is still in active service.

[[William Adama]] was a member of this fighter group, in addition to other pilots from the [[Cylon War]] era such as [[Raymond Lai]]. The logo of this group is adorned prominently on the nose of many restored [[Viper Mark II]] fighters that were to occupy the [[Galactica Museum]].

A photo of a younger William Adama and his two boys, [[Zak Adama|Zak]] and [[Lee Adama|Lee]], shows the Primus logo on his jumpsuit and his old fighter, [[Viper 7242]].

== Vigilantes ==

[[Image:Vigil Mini.JPG|thumb|Vigilantes squadron crest in Colonel Tigh's quarters ([[Miniseries]]).]]

The Vigilantes, 3rd Viper Wing, is a long-established unit in the [[Colonial Fleet]] before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]]. Given that the wing's logo adorns a wall in the quarters of Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] (a commanding officer long removed from pilot service), it is likely that Tigh served as a member of the Vigilantes as a Viper pilot in the first Cylon War.

Captain [[Kara Thrace]] is a member of the Vigilantes ([[Act of Contrition]]).

[[Jackson Spencer]], the former [[CAG]] of ''Galactica'', is also a member of the Vigilantes. He and his squadron, the last squadron of the wing, were completely destroyed by [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raiders]] during the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies. The only known survivors at this time are Thrace, who was in the brig for striking a [[Saul Tigh|superior officer]], and the crew of the [[Raptor]] supporting the squadron, [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica Copy)|Sharon Valerii]] and [[Karl Agathon|Karl Agathon]]. It is unknown if the Raptor crew was part of the squadron or just assigned to support it ([[Miniseries]]).

The first class of [[Nugget|nuggets]] fly as members of this wing ([[Act of Contrition]]).

[[Margaret Edmondson]] and [[Hamish McCall]], [[Raptor]] pilots, are both members of the Vigilantes ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).

===Known Members===
*[[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]]
*[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]]
*[[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[Brendan Costanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza]]
*[[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
*[[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]]

==Wing Crests==
<gallery>
Image:Primus Epiphanies.JPG|''Fighter Wing 1'' '''Primus'''    
Image:ViperWepsSchool_AoC.JPG|''Fighter Wing 2'' '''Name Unknown'''    
Image:Vigil Mini.JPG|''Fighter Wing 3'' '''Vigilantes'''    
Image:Demons AoC.JPG|''Fighter Wing 4'' '''Demons'''    
Image:Vampires AoC.JPG|''Fighter Wing 6'' '''Vampires'''    
Image:7th Battleaxe.jpg|''Fighter Wing 7'' '''Battleaxe'''    
Image:FS10 Resistance.JPG|''Raptor Squadron 10'' '''Raptors'''    
</gallery>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Viper Wings

2007-03-27T09:05:40Z

TaKometer: /* Squadron Crests */

Viper Wings

2007-03-27T09:03:54Z

TaKometer: New page: 2nd Viper Wing and Viper Weapons School crests ([[Act of Contrition).]] Numerous wing insignia are visible on the walls of the pilots' [[Pilot...

[[Image:ViperWepsSchool_AoC.JPG|thumb|right|2nd Viper Wing and Viper Weapons School crests ([[Act of Contrition]]).]]
Numerous wing insignia are visible on the walls of the pilots' [[Pilot ready rooms|ready room]] on [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']]. The wings often can contain both [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] and supporting [[Raptor]] pilots.

Each battlestar is assigned wings consisting of multiple squadrons, the wing(s) assigned to any given battlestar, and older battlestars may accrue a long list of wings which have launched from its decks.

The squadron patches are numbered in sequence beginning with 1 (Primus). The exception is the Viper Weapons School patch, a golden version of the standard Viper patch.

Known Wings include:
*Fighter Wing 1 Primus
*Fighter Wing 3 Vigilantes
*Fighter Wing 4 Demons
*Fighter Wing 6 Vampires
*Raptor Wing 7 Battleaxe

Of note, the standard Raptor patch is labeled "Fighter Squadron 10 Raptors".

<div style="clear: both;"></div>
== Primus ==
[[Image:Primusphoto.jpg|thumb|right|200px|The Primus patch is visible in this old photo of William Adama.]]
'''Primus''' is the name of the 1st Viper Wing of the [[Colonial Fleet]], although it is unknown if it is still in active service.

[[William Adama]] was a member of this fighter group, in addition to other pilots from the [[Cylon War]] era such as [[Raymond Lai]]. The logo of this group is adorned prominently on the nose of many restored [[Viper Mark II]] fighters that were to occupy the [[Galactica Museum]].

A photo of a younger William Adama and his two boys, [[Zak Adama|Zak]] and [[Lee Adama|Lee]], shows the Primus logo on his jumpsuit and his old fighter, [[Viper 7242]].

== Vigilantes ==

[[Image:Vigil Mini.JPG|thumb|Vigilantes squadron crest in Colonel Tigh's quarters ([[Miniseries]]).]]

The Vigilantes, 3rd Viper Wing, is a long-established unit in the [[Colonial Fleet]] before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]]. Given that the wing's logo adorns a wall in the quarters of Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] (a commanding officer long removed from pilot service), it is likely that Tigh served as a member of the Vigilantes as a Viper pilot in the first Cylon War.

Captain [[Kara Thrace]] is a member of the Vigilantes ([[Act of Contrition]]).

[[Jackson Spencer]], the former [[CAG]] of ''Galactica'', is also a member of the Vigilantes. He and his squadron, the last squadron of the wing, were completely destroyed by [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raiders]] during the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies. The only known survivors at this time are Thrace, who was in the brig for striking a [[Saul Tigh|superior officer]], and the crew of the [[Raptor]] supporting the squadron, [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica Copy)|Sharon Valerii]] and [[Karl Agathon|Karl Agathon]]. It is unknown if the Raptor crew was part of the squadron or just assigned to support it ([[Miniseries]]).

The first class of [[Nugget|nuggets]] fly as members of this wing ([[Act of Contrition]]).

[[Margaret Edmondson]] and [[Hamish McCall]], [[Raptor]] pilots, are both members of the Vigilantes ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).

===Known Members===
*[[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]]
*[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]]
*[[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[Brendan Costanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza]]
*[[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
*[[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]]

==Squadron Crests==
<gallery>
Image:Primus Epiphanies.JPG|''Fighter Wing 1'' '''Primus'''    
Image:ViperWepsSchool_AoC.JPG|''Fighter Wing 2'' '''Name Unknown'''    
Image:Vigil Mini.JPG|''Fighter Wing 3'' '''Vigilantes'''    
Image:Demons AoC.JPG|''Fighter Wing 4'' '''Demons'''    
Image:Vampires AoC.JPG|''Fighter Wing 6'' '''Vampires'''    
Image:7th Battleaxe.jpg|''Fighter Wing 7'' '''Battleaxe'''    
Image:FS10 Resistance.JPG|''Raptor Squadron 10'' '''Raptors'''    
</gallery>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Squadrons of Galactica/Archive 1

2007-03-14T15:46:43Z

TaKometer:

== Squadron? Or Wing? ==

Sounds like the big categories are really wings:

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_%28air_force_unit%29]

Except for the shield for "raptor 10" (which may actually be a squadron anyway) there is no explicit reference to them as squadrons. After all, there are color-coded viper squadrons which are clearly operating under the (vigilantes) wing.

== ==

Shouldn't this be called Battlestar Squadrons? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:23, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:Maybe, maybe not. We don't really know anything about the ''Pegasus'' squadrons (except maybe if there are some insignia in "Pegasus" and LDYB). The only argument for me is that Primus and Vigilantes probably weren't stationed on ''Galactica'' all the time, but since they were that makes them ''Galactica'' squadrons again...
:But if it's renamed, I'm for "Colonial Fleet squadrons". --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:36, 21 January 2007 (CST)
::Just like we dont know if Primus or Vigilantes are actually galactica squadrons... --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:14, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:::Primus might have been at one time, but the Vigilantes are definitely active, since lots of pilots have its patch on their suits --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:45, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:No. We're aware of several squadrons on ''Pegasus'', including [[Red Squadron (RDM)]], [[Yellow Squadron]], [[Green Squadron]] and [[Blue Squadron (RDM)]], which should be treated separately (if necessary - there's probably never going to be enough material for a parallel article). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:43, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:::Adama was (probably) assigned to Primus while on the [[Atlantia]]. It's also very likely that squads while in combat represent a completely different organizational grouping from that which this article referrs to, with the fleetwide "squadrons" more like an "air wing". Are Primus and Vigilantes ever explicitly referred to as "squadrons"?
::This article here is about standing squadrons with names and patches. The following has been mentioned, although not discussed, on the talk pages of those squadron articles, and mentioned both here and in the ''Pegasus'' article. Those color coded squadrons are probably just radio designations for missions, with pilots and planes drawn from the standing squadrons as needed. Personally I agree with that, as it's the simplest explination for why they use both simple color-names and more complex names for squadrons. Or why Starbuck assigns Showboat as squadron leader on the fly (I think it was Showboat at least). Plus it's something done in real-world air forces. But as you said there is not enough information to warrant an own article, so it can stay in the ''Pegasus'' article. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:48, 21 January 2007 (CST)

== Other squadrons, patch pictures ==

So does anyone have some pictures of those other squadron patches/logos mentioned [[User talk:Steelviper#Galactica Squadrons|here]]? They are supposed to be in "Act of Contrition". That was the main reason for consolidating all the squadron info on one page.

If not, I could get my DVDs and try to take some screencaps, but Talos said that he made some and his are too blurry. Not sure if I'll have more luck --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:39, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:I just uploaded two pics I've had on my harddrive for awhile, they show the Demons and the VWS. I'm working on getting more, there are some others on my other pc. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 17:10, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::Ok :) Since we basically have no info about the other squadrons, maybe it's best to add those pictures in a gallery; maybe under a "other" header. Also [[Talk:Rapture#7th_squadron|here]] someone says that he saw a "7th squadron" patch behind Helo in "Rapture" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:18, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:::I've seen squadron numbers up to eight in the ready room. And I had the same idea you did with the gallery. Thanks for fixing the Vigiliant''ies'' and the dash in the 2nd FS, I was late for something and hurrying. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:25, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:I've added some other squadrons to the list. Now that I have the VLC player Talos recommended, I will work on getting screen grabs of these other logos. [[User:AnteaterFeeder|AnteaterFeeder]] 20:31, 13 February 2007 (CST)

Talk:Taking a Break From All Your Worries/Archive 1

2007-02-06T19:04:17Z

TaKometer: /* Booze Supply */

Perhaps this episode will deal with Lee Adama's promise to build a bar for the pilots? [[User:Bochawa|bochawa]] 08:47, 12 August 2006 (CDT)Bochawa
:Then that would call for a cameo by Ted Danson. [[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 15:07, 13 August 2006 (PDT)
:: I rather have "Norm" show up. "It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing milkbone underwear." --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 12:32, 19 August 2006 (CDT)

I'm glad to see EJO directing another episode. I loved Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:10, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

==Promo Pics==
Can be found [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/gallery/000a3qwe here]. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:04, 7 January 2007 (CST)
:Looks like many of the scenes are in a '''bar'''. ''Ha!'' --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:42, 18 January 2007 (CST)
::Thoughts on the promo pics of Baltar in the Resurrection Tank? Dream? Real? Baltar going off in his own little world again?--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 21:41, 26 January 2007 (CST)
:::RDM said in an interview it was a dream or fantasy sequence --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:08, 27 January 2007 (CST)
::::Note the dead surrounding him. Yep, unless zombies are a new Cylon menace or Colonial weapon, I'd say fantasy. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:59, 27 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Missed the Podcast...thanks Merciful. Maybe the Final Five are all zombies?! :)--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 17:31, 27 January 2007 (CST)
::::::ZOMBIES! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 23:59, 27 January 2007 (CST)
:::::::You rang? --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:47, 30 January 2007 (CST)
:::::There's been some discussion about whether the Final Five are [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Final_five mutilated]. Reminded me of that. Maybe it means something, maybe it's an in-joke, maybe they're zombies. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:16, 30 January 2007 (CST)
::::::That's exactly what I thought of when I saw that scene. -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 06:39, 30 January 2007 (CST)

==Podcast Question==

So, these things involving Joe's Bar, Layne, and Sagitarrons, were they ideas proposed for the episode that got dropped in the writing phase, or did they film these scenes and they got cut? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:51, 29 January 2007 (CST)

:I think most was dropped during rewrites before it was shot, but as you see there are some pieces of it left, that still work. For example Ishay is obviously shocked at what they do. Though if I recall correctly, the Sagittaron thing could become part of Baltar's trial later. I'd have to listen to it again. But so could you ;) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:00, 29 January 2007 (CST)

== Baltar = Saddam ==

That was my character and visual connection.

Just a few other personal observations... The writing is hitting a new level. The last couple have seemed more sophisticated to me. One reason might be that the writers are catching the characters up on all the facts that the viewers have known for some time. The humans don't come off quite as clueless as they used to. Also, I assume that drastic time jumps are usually avoided due to fear that the viewer won't be able to keep up, but I've noticed that this episode skips over long exposition to get to the torture scenes and the finale of Rapture, the "rescue" from the planet's surface and the supernova, was all montage -- totally unusual but consistent with the stronger focus on characters.

:I don't see it. The closest historical parallel I'm aware of is [[Wikipedia:Philippe Pétain|Philippe Pétain]]. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:26, 29 January 2007 (CST)
::I just meant the look mostly, and the victim mentality. I wasn't making a historical comparison.--[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:04, 30 January 2007 (CST)
:::Visually, he sort of reminds me of The Falconer from SNL. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:39, 30 January 2007 (CST)
::::I think he's going for a Jesus look, to visually parallel the character's internal belief in his role as a Messianic figure. It should also be noted that James Callis usually wears a beard in the off-seasons. He can be seen with one in the pre-season one Lowdown, when he's hanging out with Jamie Bamber in London. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:36, 30 January 2007 (CST)

==Mary McDonnell==

Did anyone else just absolutely ''love'' her performance in this episode? Especially the "COLONEL TIGH, GET IN HERE!" part :D -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 23:42, 29 January 2007 (CST)
:She was frakkin scary. :) --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:05, 30 January 2007 (CST)
::We have NEVER seen her yell like that. I realized she and Tigh were playing the "bad cop, evil cop" scenario, knowing that this is not her normal thing. And I've never seen the characters so dark. She looked like she was practically ''orgasmic'' when Adama suggested the use of drugs on Baltar --and that he had a stash of the stuff. Wild and crazy acting. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:27, 30 January 2007 (CST)
:::Yet, we also see that it took a lot out of her. She's probably needed a good, cathartic screaming match for a very long time, but catharsis is an emotionally-exhausting experience. At the same time, she feels like she went through all of that for nothing, she failed. So, when Adama mentions a possible second option, she's filled with a new hope. Those subtle moments are what makes this show so great; look at the exchange of looks between Ellen and Saul as Saul realizes that Ellen knows the drink is poisoned. Absolutely brilliant. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:51, 30 January 2007 (CST)
:McDonnell's performance in this episode came as a total surprise to me, since we're used to a calm Roslin who prefers the carrot over the stick, so to say. This episode showed a totally different Roslin, which McDonnell played magnificently. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 08:53, 30 January 2007 (CST)
I totally agree I just keep watching that scene over and over. "Col Tigh get in here," it's a great stress releaver.--[[User:Mevenstar|Mevenstar]] 20:15, 30 January 2007 (CST)mevenstar
:It's fascinating that an episode can be excellent by a margin that nearly matches the amount that the tone/mood missed its original mark. I admit that from the the title and from the pace of the season I was expecting a lighter episode, but I wouldn't trade anything from this one. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:38, 1 February 2007 (CST)
::I agree. I wouldn't place this in my list of favorites. But I would have retitled it to something like, "Everybody Hates Baltar", or, "Getting a Piece of Baltar" or, "What? They're Torturing Baltar again?!" --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:42, 1 February 2007 (CST)
Did anyone think the interrogation was beyond sane? I mean totally ridiculous and insane line of questions. I was wondering in every part Roslin interrogated Baltar, "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS ACCOMPLISHING?!" It was killing me. Seemed totally useless until Adama stepped in. Comparing Roslin's interrogation tactics to Kara's, I would say that Starbuck would have done a better job. All that came out of Mary McDonnell's character, at least in my view, was that she can totally lose her rationale over a person. I would find character growth if she finds a different means of interrogation with Caprica Six that doesn't go the same way for Leoben or Baltar. --[[User:AJFederation|AJFederation]] 16:11, 2 February 2007 (CST)
:That's exactly why this episode was great. And McDonnell's portrayal of Roslin wasn't so over the top that it wasn't beleivable. It came through that the president was in a stage of emotional weakness, in contrast to her stoic strength during the holocaust. Awesome. [[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 13:02, 6 February 2007 (CST)

== Booze Supply ==

Given the shortages of damn near everything else, alcohol certainly seems to be in generous supply. I'll grant that they had plenty of time to brew (and the natural resources to do so) while on New Caprica, and that heavy drinking seems to be the post-Holocaust pastime of choice. I'd really like to see the show exploring where the Fleet is getting its supplies from, though. Maybe there's a brewmaster out in the civilians who didn't have the time or resources to put his skills to use until New Caprica. Maybe Tyrol inspired a few dozen crew members to operate distilleries of their own. All I really know is that booze flows like water on ''Galactica'' and I'd like to hoist a shot at Joe's. Let's just hope that Viper chassis doesn't come loose during a battle. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 14:53, 30 January 2007 (CST)
:If you can eat, you can ''ferment'' what you eat, thus the alcohol supply. You can metabolize alcohol, which was likely the last rations that some might have touched in the food shortage. What the local distilleries look like throughout the fleet are probably a sight to behold. Oh, and keep in mind there were probably large freighters carrying tons of this stuff in commerce between Colonies, among other things. I agree though, it does look like sometimes the writers are ignoring what should be conversation of everything. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:37, 30 January 2007 (CST)
::And they just came into a healthy supply of algae to play with. You can see some kind of distiller or something in the background as the camera pans I'm sure. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 15:41, 30 January 2007 (CST)
:::Yeah, right at the beginning there is something built of kegs/pots and spiraling copper tubing --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:51, 30 January 2007 (CST)
::::Plus, with the Agro Ship, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some of the alcohol crops growing there. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 01:27, 31 January 2007 (CST)
:::::It looked like everything died on the agro ship during the transit through the cluster. Surely we will find out soon if that indeed is the case.

==Secret==

Why doesn't the article mention the straw that broke the camel's back and drove Gaeta to stab Baltar? Baltar whispered something to Gaeta, right? Did i miss what he said, or should we add that to the "Questions" part of the article? [[User:RMelon|RMelon]] 12:17, 31 January 2007 (CST)
:You can't hear it, as we see most of that part from the observation camera. See the podcast section in "Notes" for the answer --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:24, 31 January 2007 (CST)
:: Thanks [[User:RMelon|RMelon]] 12:27, 31 January 2007 (CST)

Talk:Taking a Break From All Your Worries/Archive 1

2007-02-06T19:02:07Z

TaKometer: /* Mary McDonnell */

Perhaps this episode will deal with Lee Adama's promise to build a bar for the pilots? [[User:Bochawa|bochawa]] 08:47, 12 August 2006 (CDT)Bochawa
:Then that would call for a cameo by Ted Danson. [[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 15:07, 13 August 2006 (PDT)
:: I rather have "Norm" show up. "It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing milkbone underwear." --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 12:32, 19 August 2006 (CDT)

I'm glad to see EJO directing another episode. I loved Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:10, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

==Promo Pics==
Can be found [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/gallery/000a3qwe here]. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:04, 7 January 2007 (CST)
:Looks like many of the scenes are in a '''bar'''. ''Ha!'' --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:42, 18 January 2007 (CST)
::Thoughts on the promo pics of Baltar in the Resurrection Tank? Dream? Real? Baltar going off in his own little world again?--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 21:41, 26 January 2007 (CST)
:::RDM said in an interview it was a dream or fantasy sequence --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:08, 27 January 2007 (CST)
::::Note the dead surrounding him. Yep, unless zombies are a new Cylon menace or Colonial weapon, I'd say fantasy. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:59, 27 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Missed the Podcast...thanks Merciful. Maybe the Final Five are all zombies?! :)--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 17:31, 27 January 2007 (CST)
::::::ZOMBIES! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 23:59, 27 January 2007 (CST)
:::::::You rang? --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:47, 30 January 2007 (CST)
:::::There's been some discussion about whether the Final Five are [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Talk:Final_five mutilated]. Reminded me of that. Maybe it means something, maybe it's an in-joke, maybe they're zombies. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:16, 30 January 2007 (CST)
::::::That's exactly what I thought of when I saw that scene. -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 06:39, 30 January 2007 (CST)

==Podcast Question==

So, these things involving Joe's Bar, Layne, and Sagitarrons, were they ideas proposed for the episode that got dropped in the writing phase, or did they film these scenes and they got cut? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:51, 29 January 2007 (CST)

:I think most was dropped during rewrites before it was shot, but as you see there are some pieces of it left, that still work. For example Ishay is obviously shocked at what they do. Though if I recall correctly, the Sagittaron thing could become part of Baltar's trial later. I'd have to listen to it again. But so could you ;) --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:00, 29 January 2007 (CST)

== Baltar = Saddam ==

That was my character and visual connection.

Just a few other personal observations... The writing is hitting a new level. The last couple have seemed more sophisticated to me. One reason might be that the writers are catching the characters up on all the facts that the viewers have known for some time. The humans don't come off quite as clueless as they used to. Also, I assume that drastic time jumps are usually avoided due to fear that the viewer won't be able to keep up, but I've noticed that this episode skips over long exposition to get to the torture scenes and the finale of Rapture, the "rescue" from the planet's surface and the supernova, was all montage -- totally unusual but consistent with the stronger focus on characters.

:I don't see it. The closest historical parallel I'm aware of is [[Wikipedia:Philippe Pétain|Philippe Pétain]]. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:26, 29 January 2007 (CST)
::I just meant the look mostly, and the victim mentality. I wasn't making a historical comparison.--[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:04, 30 January 2007 (CST)
:::Visually, he sort of reminds me of The Falconer from SNL. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 01:39, 30 January 2007 (CST)
::::I think he's going for a Jesus look, to visually parallel the character's internal belief in his role as a Messianic figure. It should also be noted that James Callis usually wears a beard in the off-seasons. He can be seen with one in the pre-season one Lowdown, when he's hanging out with Jamie Bamber in London. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:36, 30 January 2007 (CST)

==Mary McDonnell==

Did anyone else just absolutely ''love'' her performance in this episode? Especially the "COLONEL TIGH, GET IN HERE!" part :D -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 23:42, 29 January 2007 (CST)
:She was frakkin scary. :) --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:05, 30 January 2007 (CST)
::We have NEVER seen her yell like that. I realized she and Tigh were playing the "bad cop, evil cop" scenario, knowing that this is not her normal thing. And I've never seen the characters so dark. She looked like she was practically ''orgasmic'' when Adama suggested the use of drugs on Baltar --and that he had a stash of the stuff. Wild and crazy acting. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:27, 30 January 2007 (CST)
:::Yet, we also see that it took a lot out of her. She's probably needed a good, cathartic screaming match for a very long time, but catharsis is an emotionally-exhausting experience. At the same time, she feels like she went through all of that for nothing, she failed. So, when Adama mentions a possible second option, she's filled with a new hope. Those subtle moments are what makes this show so great; look at the exchange of looks between Ellen and Saul as Saul realizes that Ellen knows the drink is poisoned. Absolutely brilliant. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:51, 30 January 2007 (CST)
:McDonnell's performance in this episode came as a total surprise to me, since we're used to a calm Roslin who prefers the carrot over the stick, so to say. This episode showed a totally different Roslin, which McDonnell played magnificently. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 08:53, 30 January 2007 (CST)
I totally agree I just keep watching that scene over and over. "Col Tigh get in here," it's a great stress releaver.--[[User:Mevenstar|Mevenstar]] 20:15, 30 January 2007 (CST)mevenstar
:It's fascinating that an episode can be excellent by a margin that nearly matches the amount that the tone/mood missed its original mark. I admit that from the the title and from the pace of the season I was expecting a lighter episode, but I wouldn't trade anything from this one. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:38, 1 February 2007 (CST)
::I agree. I wouldn't place this in my list of favorites. But I would have retitled it to something like, "Everybody Hates Baltar", or, "Getting a Piece of Baltar" or, "What? They're Torturing Baltar again?!" --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:42, 1 February 2007 (CST)
Did anyone think the interrogation was beyond sane? I mean totally ridiculous and insane line of questions. I was wondering in every part Roslin interrogated Baltar, "WHAT THE HELL IS THIS ACCOMPLISHING?!" It was killing me. Seemed totally useless until Adama stepped in. Comparing Roslin's interrogation tactics to Kara's, I would say that Starbuck would have done a better job. All that came out of Mary McDonnell's character, at least in my view, was that she can totally lose her rationale over a person. I would find character growth if she finds a different means of interrogation with Caprica Six that doesn't go the same way for Leoben or Baltar. --[[User:AJFederation|AJFederation]] 16:11, 2 February 2007 (CST)
:That's exactly why this episode was great. And McDonnell's portrayal of Roslin wasn't so over the top that it wasn't beleivable. It came through that the president was in a stage of emotional weakness, in contrast to her stoic strength during the holocaust. Awesome. [[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 13:02, 6 February 2007 (CST)

== Booze Supply ==

Given the shortages of damn near everything else, alcohol certainly seems to be in generous supply. I'll grant that they had plenty of time to brew (and the natural resources to do so) while on New Caprica, and that heavy drinking seems to be the post-Holocaust pastime of choice. I'd really like to see the show exploring where the Fleet is getting its supplies from, though. Maybe there's a brewmaster out in the civilians who didn't have the time or resources to put his skills to use until New Caprica. Maybe Tyrol inspired a few dozen crew members to operate distilleries of their own. All I really know is that booze flows like water on ''Galactica'' and I'd like to hoist a shot at Joe's. Let's just hope that Viper chassis doesn't come loose during a battle. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 14:53, 30 January 2007 (CST)
:If you can eat, you can ''ferment'' what you eat, thus the alcohol supply. You can metabolize alcohol, which was likely the last rations that some might have touched in the food shortage. What the local distilleries look like throughout the fleet are probably a sight to behold. Oh, and keep in mind there were probably large freighters carrying tons of this stuff in commerce between Colonies, among other things. I agree though, it does look like sometimes the writers are ignoring what should be conversation of everything. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:37, 30 January 2007 (CST)
::And they just came into a healthy supply of algae to play with. You can see some kind of distiller or something in the background as the camera pans I'm sure. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 15:41, 30 January 2007 (CST)
:::Yeah, right at the beginning there is something built of kegs/pots and spiraling copper tubing --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:51, 30 January 2007 (CST)
::::Plus, with the Agro Ship, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some of the alcohol crops growing there. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 01:27, 31 January 2007 (CST)

==Secret==

Why doesn't the article mention the straw that broke the camel's back and drove Gaeta to stab Baltar? Baltar whispered something to Gaeta, right? Did i miss what he said, or should we add that to the "Questions" part of the article? [[User:RMelon|RMelon]] 12:17, 31 January 2007 (CST)
:You can't hear it, as we see most of that part from the observation camera. See the podcast section in "Notes" for the answer --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:24, 31 January 2007 (CST)
:: Thanks [[User:RMelon|RMelon]] 12:27, 31 January 2007 (CST)

Talk:Squadrons of Galactica/Archive 1

2007-01-28T19:25:20Z

TaKometer:

Shouldn't this be called Battlestar Squadrons? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:23, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:Maybe, maybe not. We don't really know anything about the ''Pegasus'' squadrons (except maybe if there are some insignia in "Pegasus" and LDYB). The only argument for me is that Primus and Vigilantes probably weren't stationed on ''Galactica'' all the time, but since they were that makes them ''Galactica'' squadrons again...
:But if it's renamed, I'm for "Colonial Fleet squadrons". --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:36, 21 January 2007 (CST)
::Just like we dont know if Primus or Vigilantes are actually galactica squadrons... --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 08:14, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:::Primus might have been at one time, but the Vigilantes are definitely active, since lots of pilots have its patch on their suits --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:45, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:No. We're aware of several squadrons on ''Pegasus'', including [[Red Squadron (RDM)]], [[Yellow Squadron]], [[Green Squadron]] and [[Blue Squadron (RDM)]], which should be treated separately (if necessary - there's probably never going to be enough material for a parallel article). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:43, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:::Adama was (probably) assigned to Primus while on the [[Atlantia]]. It's also very likely that squads while in combat represent a completely different organizational grouping from that which this article referrs to, with the fleetwide "squadrons" more like an "air wing". Are Primus and Vigilantes ever explicitly referred to as "squadrons"?
::This article here is about standing squadrons with names and patches. The following has been mentioned, although not discussed, on the talk pages of those squadron articles, and mentioned both here and in the ''Pegasus'' article. Those color coded squadrons are probably just radio designations for missions, with pilots and planes drawn from the standing squadrons as needed. Personally I agree with that, as it's the simplest explination for why they use both simple color-names and more complex names for squadrons. Or why Starbuck assigns Showboat as squadron leader on the fly (I think it was Showboat at least). Plus it's something done in real-world air forces. But as you said there is not enough information to warrant an own article, so it can stay in the ''Pegasus'' article. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:48, 21 January 2007 (CST)

== Other squadrons, patch pictures ==

So does anyone have some pictures of those other squadron patches/logos mentioned [[User talk:Steelviper#Galactica Squadrons|here]]? They are supposed to be in "Act of Contrition". That was the main reason for consolidating all the squadron info on one page.

If not, I could get my DVDs and try to take some screencaps, but Talos said that he made some and his are too blurry. Not sure if I'll have more luck --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:39, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:I just uploaded two pics I've had on my harddrive for awhile, they show the Demons and the VWS. I'm working on getting more, there are some others on my other pc. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 17:10, 25 January 2007 (CST)
::Ok :) Since we basically have no info about the other squadrons, maybe it's best to add those pictures in a gallery; maybe under a "other" header. Also [[Talk:Rapture#7th_squadron|here]] someone says that he saw a "7th squadron" patch behind Helo in "Rapture" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:18, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:::I've seen squadron numbers up to eight in the ready room. And I had the same idea you did with the gallery. Thanks for fixing the Vigiliant''ies'' and the dash in the 2nd FS, I was late for something and hurrying. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:25, 25 January 2007 (CST)

Ionian Nebula

2007-01-24T22:18:02Z

TaKometer: nova? or supernova? Very different!

The '''Ionian system''' was 13,000 light years away from the [[algae planet]].

In their search for the [[Eye of Jupiter]]'s function and symbolism, Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]] discovers that a nova occurred in the Ionian system around the same time as the [[Kobol|Great Exodus]]. The nova left behind a gas cloud, known to the Colonials as the Ionian nebula ([[Rapture]]).

== Notes ==

* [[w:Ionia|Ionia]] was an ancient region of southwestern coastal [[w:Anatolia|Anatolia]] (in present-day [[w:Turkey|Turkey]], the region nearest [[w:İzmir|İzmir]],) on the [[w:Aegean Sea|Aegean Sea]], which was said to be founded by [[w:Ion (mythology)|Ion]], son of [[w:Apollo|Apollo]].

[[Category: A to Z]] [[Category: Places]] [[Category: Places (RDM)]] [[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Rapture/Archive 1

2007-01-24T22:12:30Z

TaKometer:

== 7th squadron ==

Did anyone else see the 7th squadron logo behind Helo?
[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 16:12, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== Photo ==

I think it's time to replace Universal logo with a promotional photo. The question is: with which one? My vote goes [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000t5fg5/g282 here]. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 05:36, 23 December 2006 (CST)
:Ditto. Make sure it's uploaded to the Media wiki properly first. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 07:11, 23 December 2006 (CST)
::It already is. Its used on the [[Final five]] page. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 11:06, 23 December 2006 (CST)
:::Ever notice how prevalent the Universal logo is on all of their products? It's particularly annoying when watching the Season One DVDs. They finally started cutting it from in front of individual episodes on the 2.5 discs. The logo is down-right... universal. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 08:51, 8 January 2007 (CST)

(referring to the picture) So this is where some of the members of the Grey Council went after Delenn dissolved it... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:11, 31 December 2006 (CST)
:Yeah. Better gig. Far more lighting. Sexier minions to grovel at your feet, too. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:22, 1 January 2007 (CST)
::Mmm. Minions. The twenty-first cannot come soon enough. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 08:49, 8 January 2007 (CST)
:::13 days, 10 hours, 31 minutes :( --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 10:28, 8 January 2007 (CST)

== My Predictions ==

Here's what I think we'll see tonight:
*Helo kills Athena so she can download and get Hera from the Cylons.
*Dualla goes Starbuck-hunting with Anders. They fall for each other, thus neatly wrapping up the Starbuck/Apollo/Anders/Dee love rectangle.
*Bill Adama nukes the bejeezus out of the algae planet. Chief, Cally, Barolay, and Bendis die. Everyone else makes it out on a heavy raider.
*The Final Five: Starbuck, Anders, Billy, Johnny Five, and Galvatron.
*Guest appearances by the SuicideGirls.

All of the above predictions are pulled directly from the darkest reaches of my rectum and should not be taken seriously. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 14:17, 21 January 2007 (CST)
: 1st idea: might actually possibly work even though it won't happen. 2nd: Good idea, actually. 3rd: Naw. 4th: Bahahahahaha. 5th: I wish. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 14:34, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:As they say on the forums, Galvatron ftw. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:57, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:Slander, I have an idea to make it even better. Option 3, take the "it" out of the 3rd sentence. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 16:26, 21 January 2007 (CST)
::Anders and Apollo making out? Hey, it could happen. They're both very pretty and Bamber is English. That's close enough to being a girl. And, hey, we'd get to see the inside of a heavy raider. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 17:46, 21 January 2007 (CST)
:::HOLY FRAK, SLANDER! HOW DID YOU KNOW?! --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:09, 21 January 2007 (CST)
::::Chamalla tastes good with Swiss Miss. (Also, the Final Five member that D'anna apologizes to? Totally Galvatron.) --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 08:34, 22 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Also also, how'd y'all like those SuicideGirls cameos? Eh? Eh? --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 08:36, 22 January 2007 (CST)
::::::The Final Five person D'anna talked to was Galvatron, the other 4 were SuicideGirls. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 08:42, 22 January 2007 (CST)
: I bow down to Slander. I bet the writers were cackling for weeks after they came up with that idea.--[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:46, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== Concerning religion of the cylons and the colonies ==

Keeping Ron Moore's twists and turns from the original series I would like to suggest that
the Lords of Kobol and the "jealous" god, are for all intensive purposes the Cylons. They
are modeled after and therefore more directly linked to the deities say than Adama is "being Zeus" among the humans.
So much so that specific units have become avatars, perhaps posessed of a lord or at the very least
evolving an actual soul in likeness of a lord.

12 cylons = 12 olympians
Final Five - Temple of Five

The mystery of the final five hints to them being something other
that the existing models. Perhaps these five could not be replicated
like the others because of their conflict with the cylon god.

Clearly a more human "being" is developing in Deana in her search for enlightenment,
in Caprica in her search for Love and in Sharon in her self acceptance.
With Deanna the search for enlightenment became so overpweing
the entire line was boxed. With Sharon it's almost as if the humanity
Boomer clung to has moved to Agathon. Boomer is not the woman that
would not leave her human apartment after resurrecting,
but both have in their own fashion esentially accepted who they are.
Caprica appears in a constant state of conflict that many humans will relate to,
while her etherial counterpart is the self assured herald of her cylon maker.

For all the pagan references in the original series we still had Count Iblis
and the ship of lights taking on very familliar christan concepts of angels
and satan. Nothing is ever quite that black and white in the reimagined series.

While the reference has been fleeting, the notion of a god outside the
Lords of Kobol is clear, and he would be the cylons god. Dodona Selloi seems to refer to the cylon god as nothing more or less than a lord of kobol.
My thought is that somehow this jealous god has sort of ensnared the likeness perhaps even conciousness of the lords
in creating the cylon race, so closely that single copies become avatars of the lords.
The final five could be so possesed that they are not part of the cylon race,
refusing the mechanations of the cylon god. Others an avatar is what we see developing
in Sharon, Deanna and Caprica.

And even the cylon god, the Count Iblis whose voice was that of the imperious leader in the original series
has a model: Brother Cavel. Cavel is horribly wicked, he is always urging his fellow cylons
to the most horrific of actions. He appears out of nowhwere all the time. And yet, strangely,
he seems to honor the importance of free will in his dealings with his brother cylons, something you would expect of an
Abrahamic god. He's not Satan then who would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven,
he is just far more satanic or evil than any characterization offered by a member of
a known pantheon of gods.

Yet another twist, If the Abrahmic god were competing with beings like himself (greek gods), how satanic might he appear?
An abrahamic god accepts free will: I can't make you worship me.
But is flawed like miltons Satan, if you don't worship me , your damned.
Satans flaw in paradise lost was saying better to rull in hell than serve in
heaven. What he should have said was better to live free on earth not rule in hell.
So Cavel is a marvelous blend of an Abrahamic God & Satan floating through
space in a base ship with 7 of 12 would be Olympians. Caprica Aphrodite, Sharon Athena
and Deanna Hestia?. Starbuck/Artemis is the next to come forward?
Adama and Laura and Zeus and Hera? two reason for two of the final five to stay where they are.
They have human avatars leading the fleet. Three male cylons just go with the flow,
well the male gods were always kind of boring anyway. At least if your a fan of Wonder Woman.

The twist from original series to re-imagined series are always surprising and wonderful
in many ways. In the world of Sci Fi televison, the original Galactica made huge advances
by considering the existence of higher beings. Where would the Ancients of Stargate or the Vorlons
of Babylon be without Battlestar Galactica? Will we see actual communion with higher beings
in the re-imagined series? I don't expect to. It would gnaw at the the gritty realism of the show.

The idea of this entire exodus from the colonies seeking earth, unifying to a new Kobol, then breaking off back to earth and the colonies
over and over seems entirely plausible. Gods are at the very least real in a metaphoirical sense and 12 cylon
models living in peace with a vast race of humans on new a Kobol in the end sounds far more believeable
than actual gods and godesses.
{{unsigned|Mevenstar}}

: The was a good read.--[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:48, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== Dualla's partner? ==

The summary mentions Dualla's partner being an unnamed civvie, but I thought it looked like Sergeant Fischer (Aleks Paunovic). I'll check the Sadgeezer transcript (as soon as it is posted). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:26, 23 January 2007 (CST)
:Not sure if it was Fisher, but I think he's one of the marines for sure --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:05, 24 January 2007 (CST)
::I'm pretty sure Dee says "Sarge?" after he gets shot. I could be wrong though. -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 06:23, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== Sooner Rather Than / Or Later? ==

*The Cylons are relieved as well, but after the Three in the command room leaves in satisfaction, the others realize that the Cylon, a race predicated on consensus and not defiance or distinctive personality clashes, have a serious problem. A [[Cavil]] voices that the Threes are out of control, and that a decision regarding their actions must be made, sooner or later.

I recalled that line as "sooner, rather than later," implying that the other models were already considering boxing the Threes. Am I loosing my mind, or did I hear that right? --[[User:Saiboogu|Saiboogu]] 01:35, 24 January 2007 (CST)

::That's what I heard too. Or "maybe sooner, rather than later". --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:41, 24 January 2007 (CST)

:::I edited the line but left the implication that they were going to box her for the talk page. If I remember, I think it has already been implied on earlier episode summaries that the Threes may be boxed - it goes without saying on this page. {{unsigned|Saiboogu}}

== Multiple Cavil's? ==

Ron Moore mentions in the podcast that the fx crew were going to insert a shot of a Cavil in front of all of the Deanna pods. Just as he boxes her in the closeup all the others box all the other Deanna models in the long shot. But I don't believe there were any Cavil's in the long shot. Did anyone notice? --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:44, 24 January 2007 (CST)
: It looked like there were other Cavils doing the same thing to all the other Threes in the wide shot that ended the episode. It is rather interesting that Cavil's normally not among the models who participates in a post-resurrection midwifing, yet he's the only one there when a boxing takes place, no? --[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 02:04, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:To me it looked like a lot of Cavil-activity too. If (as many people here believe) Cavil is Number Two, then his actions in this episode make perfect sense. He's the one who confronts D'Anna in the temple and almost kills her, he's the one who proposes boxing the Threes in the first place, and he's the one who ends up actually doing it. If Cavil is either Two or Four, he'd be the representative of the remaining Cylons and it would make sense for him to go on a boxing spree. Also, if Cavil is Two, he wouldn't want his 'leadership' status (as far as he has any; he didn't protest against the majority decision to attack the Colonies) threatened by the revelation of Number One (who I believe to be among the Final Five). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 03:39, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== Deanna Recognition ==

Which of the main characters has Deanna had significant interactions with? Other than Baltar.--[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:47, 24 January 2007 (CST)
: Fleet-D'Anna from Final Cut interacted with Roslin, Adama, Tigh, and Lee. As for Downloaded/Final Five-D'Anna, it's just been Baltar, Doc Cottle and Anders, who she was a righteous bitch to and nearly killed by the way. --[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 02:07, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:: I thought Fleet-D'Anna was Final Five-D'anna --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:41, 24 January 2007 (CST)
::: I think it's pretty obvious that the D'anna who found Hera and searched for the Five is the D'anna we know from Final Cut. Caprica-Three has a rather nastier temperament, both in Downloaded and in Occuprice. It's possible the Three who defies the basestar command in Rapture is Caprica-Three as well. I believe only one Number Three is referred to as D'anna and that's Final Cut D'anna. Note that even the other Cylons refer to her by that name. Normally, Cylons only seem to bestow individual names on a Cylon who has accomplished something significant. (For example, while D'anna mentioned speaking to a Simon, this was so Baltar would know who she's talking about.) --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 08:58, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:::: Yeah, that was the clincher for me, when the other Cylons called her D'Anna. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 09:19, 24 January 2007 (CST)

== Boxing the Threes ==

There is discussion around here about just how they boxed the entire Three line, so here's my idea:
*Send all your Cavils to the Resurrection Ship's Three Deck.
*Reprogram the Centurions to forget the Threes are Cylons.
*Have the Centurions fire upon all Threes they can find in the fleet. (Resurrection Ship's gonna work overtime on that)
*Have your Cavils box the downloaded Threes.
Any alternative ideas, anyone? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 03:44, 24 January 2007 (CST)

Here's my one main idea, based on looking at what happened once D'Anna saw the final five.

*One of the consequences of her seeing the final five was that the experience would overload her Cylon brain. Take note that her eyes glazed over and her nose started to bleed, inferring that there was some sort of hemmorage occuring, probably from the brain area. Since it has been shown many times throughout the series that the Cylon models amongst themselves can communicate with each other on a near telepathic level, whether it is for voting on leadership decisions or sharing memories. I believe it is entirely possible that once D'anna saw the final five, the shared memory of that forbidden knowledge was transmitted to all the other Threes, thus resulting in their own deaths as well.

When Cavil talked with D'Anna and told her to look at all the "damage" she had caused, he seems to be talking about all the other resurrection chambers around her. This implied to me that the damage that occurred was that every Three died at the same time & thus time and energy had to be spent to resurrect them all. I take this to be the final breaking point for the rest of the Cylon leadership as resurrecting an entire line of cylons would have taxed the resources they currently had, plus now that all the Threes have this shared knowledge of the final five, it is too dangerous to keep them around, thus the final boxing.

That's my 2 cents. I understand how the other explanations can work and may very well be one of those. However, considering how often RDM and crew bring in some religious and spiritual twists every so often into their stories, what happened to D'Anna could be akin to how some religious teachings bring up the idea that once a normal human being looks upon the face of a god, their penalty is immediate death. Even in the RDM podcast, he referred to the cause of the boxing to the occurence that they finally took a bite of the forbidden knowledge, a reference to the Fall of Man account in the Judeo-Christian teachings.

Either case, I don't think the Cylons did much to "box" all the Threes. The Threes died because of D'anna's encounter with the final five and thus made it much easier to box all of them as they're resurrected. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 10:29, 24 January 2007 (CST)

It's possible that The Threes simply accepted their faith? After all they were able to get a ship on the planet they had no further reason to disagree with the other cylons.

Also we see some people walking in the "boxing chamber" when Brother Cavil leaves. Who are they?--[[User:R4p70r|R4p70r]] 14:14, 24 January 2007 (CST)

Talk:The Passage/Archive 1

2007-01-04T08:58:22Z

TaKometer: /* Logic Holes. */

== I cried ==
When I watched the episode tonight, I cried at the end. It was a really sad ending. If an episode makes me cry, that means ''it'' was '''really''' good. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:31, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:I was just left in shock. What a way to die...and to do it knowingly while saving a civilian ship... [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:46, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:You weren't the only one, Shane. You weren't the only one. Note to Self: When an episode summary says "we'll learn more about a character in this episode," prepare for mourning. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:42, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::I love Kat, I also shed a tear. :'( --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:14, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:::I saluted her picture as Starbuck hung it up, with tears in my eyes. This is one of the few episodes I've watched this season while not having a few beers in me, and I'm glad I did so. I'd have probably been Weepy McEmo all night otherwise. You can bet that, next Friday, I'll be pouring one out for Kat. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 14:28, 11 December 2006 (CST)

== Tether? ==

Why didn't Galactica just tether the Raptors to their ships? Or use the magnetic clamps that Raptors have to literally attach to the ships? They wouldn't lose any ships, it would save time, and be safer all at the same time. - [[User:Linaf|Linaf]] 09:21, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Jumping is precise, but not that precise. We don't know if a Jump between tethered ships, if they didn't occur simultaneously, would be a fatal move, or do nothing. In any case, the intense heat and buffeting in the cloud would likely make a tether snap or melt and be worthless. Magnetic clamping might have been possible given that Vipers that perform combat landings hold themselves fast within Galactica. However, performing a Jump while ''outside'' of another ship (which is also Jumping) is probably a Bad Idea. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:06, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Likely for the same reason Galactica has to close flight pods: Each ship's ftl drive is only capable of allowing it to jump, dragging a raptor along likely is no more possible the for galactica to jump with deployed flight pods. --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 21:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

I'm sorry but this part of the story still doesn't make sense to me. Why did the raptors have to be outside of the ships to give them jump coordinates? If radiation would fry the civilian ship computers why not simply park a raptor in their landing bays and let their computers do the work.--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 20:15, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Likely because the Raptor's sensors cant operate from inside a metal, radiation shielded landing bay... They werent designed for that type of use. Also, it may be very likely that many ships lack a landing bay, instead relying on airlocks to connect to other ships. --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 21:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

:It still doesn't make sense to me. Why not weld the raptor directly to the out hull of the civilian ships? If the rapter's computers are so well shielded why not just wrap the computers of the civilian ships in protective armour. Clearly the jump computers are small enough to be contained in a small rapter so the amount of material necessary to harden them couldn't be all that much

::Simple answer: it wouldn't have been very dramatic from a storytelling point of view, would it? The fact that the civilian ships relied on the Raptors and their pilots- who, clearly, are fallible- increases the tension exponentially. It hits our characters that bit harder when ships are lost, because they feel it is their fault. By giving the civilian ships the same capabilities of the Raptors, you take away the whole point of having the episode :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 12:18, 10 December 2006 (CST)

:: Dramatic presentations aside, many civilian ships could have carried a Raptor in their cargo hull until after the first jump. Then they could launch their Raptor and make the second jump. Colonial One, a ship actually small enough to land in Galactica's landing bay, is shown with a Raptor in it's hull during the mini-series. Colonial One also rescued Apollo's Viper when he had an emergency. [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 18:38, 10 December 2006 (CST)

::: It seems to me to be a poor idea to open your landing bay in the middle of that radiation storm, whatever it was. That could be a good excuse for not doing that one. --[[User:Larrik|Larrik]] 22:38, 12 December 2006 (CST)

::Welding the raptors would have taken more time than the fleet could have really afforded. Plus, though it seems like a good idea, the intense heat inside that star cluster seems to indicate that if they were to try that, the raptor and the ship would become inseparable because of the melding of the metal. Every raptor that came back was charred and smoking, not sure if they would have been able to pull each attached raptor off the ships. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 10:28, 12 December 2006 (CST)

==Did Kat Die?==
I know this is a stupid question but why did starbuck a picture of her in the memorial hall? Snorkel378
:Yes, she died because she received a twice-fatal dose of radiation --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:10, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Then WHy did Adama Still MAke Her CAG? WHo would make someone who is dead Be A CAG. And We never saw her die. snorkel378
:It's glaringly obvious that she died. We didn't need to see her last breath to know it. She received two fatal doses. She was dying in sickbay. Kara gave her pills if she wanted to comitt suicide, because dying from radiation poisoning is extremly ugly.
:The promotion is a honorary and morale thing. It was merely posthumous, but Apollo is still the acting CAG. Adama thought that Kat's leadership and bravery are a good example for the crew --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:19, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Kat does die; there is no way for her to survive extreme radiation poisoning. However, the show's writers do not show this to enhance the drama of the moment. (Oh, Snorkel, to make an automatic signature, place four tilde characters (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) at the end of your entry.) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:24, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::I'd say it's better that we didn't see her actual death. Death scenes ''can'' a clicé if not done right. Just showing its impact on the other character was far better and more effective IMO --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:27, 9 December 2006 (CST)

U guys know that this is a thery, we would have to ask the writer. Come on what if she is still insickbay some later episode in rehab? then waht would you guys say. OO and KAra gave Kat Skin rebuilds she even said that in the scene. So u might be alive but we should not be so quick to say she died because there is no ground proof. Snorkel378 P.S. i dont give a damn about an automatic signature
:She gave her an overdose of sleeping pills. And I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but it probably "confirms" her death --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:37, 9 December 2006 (CST)

::Yep, the podcast confirms that Kat died. Just got done listening. And Snorkel, there's no need to get ratty, we just try to help :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:41, 9 December 2006 (CST)

:While the podcast does make it explicit, the story as aired makes it clear.
:* We're told that flying after the tag turns black is lethal. Kat's turns black twice
:* Kara gives her "sleeping pills ... enough"
:* When Adama tells Kat he's promoting her, she asks him herself if he knows that she's not making it out of sick bay. He does.
:* Kat isn't present when her promotion is announced. This would only happen if not only she wasn't available at the time but she never would be. If she will recover, you wait until she can be present.
:* Finally, Starbuck posts her picture on the memory wall.
:So, the answer to the question "Why did Starbuck put her picture on the wall?" is "so the audience would know that she died".
:What makes the show so appealing to me is the quality of the writing. They take the time to tell the story through the character interaction, the emotional moments. They could have had her die on screen when she collapsed and made it explicit. But instead, they write it more powerfully. --[[User:Brons|Brons]] 11:45, 9 December 2006 (CST)

::Excellent points, Brons. Another example of writing that sets BSG above other shows. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:49, 9 December 2006 (CST)

She was A good Character, Snorkel378

:Agreed. She was one of my favourite characters :( --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:37, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::Poor Kat :( *wipes away tears* --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

No doubt, Kat's dead. All the reasons above. The wall is a memorial for those who are dead, not those who are sick. And it was even in the news a former Russian spy just got wacked (assasinated by Russia) a couple weeks ago with just a small dose of radiation. Most people don't realize how dangerous radiation is because we don't deal with it on a day-to-day basis, but just a little bit can kill you. I feel that all those pilots were getting more than a small dose, other than just Kat. There could be reprocutions for all of them in the future as their health deteriorates over time.

Kat dying in this way, they could have nixed the B side story to flesh out her story. Kat was a very compelling character and her going out, well, the whole D'Anna dying over-and-over thing and the Baltar 3-way is getting boring and tedious so they could have spent more time with the Kat story. Even thus, They still did a good job of making a dramatic finish even if the story could have used a few more details.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 13:01, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:The Baltar and Three storyline is neither boring nor tedious and had only four short scenes in this episode. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:18, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::That's all opinion. Everybody's entitled to their own. But I wanted to see more of the Kat storyline and I felt the B side D'Anna story was getting in the way.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:28, 10 December 2006 (CST)

What if they Findsome healing artifact do u think they would bring her back along with others? Snorkel378
:This isn't Star Trek. When people are dead they are dead. Just like in real life. Only the Cylons cheat death --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:40, 10 December 2006 (CST)

== Anti-Radiation Meds ==

Part of the summary here suggests that there were no anti-rad doses to go around for any of the pilots. I thought that at some were given to the skeleton crews of the civilian ships. Am I right on this one? [[User:Steel viper|Steel viper]] 18:38, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:RDM mentioned in the podcast that the cockpits of the civilian ships might be the most heavily shielded areas. That makes sense to save some money. So the crew could have been shielded, but not the rest of the ship --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:30, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Perhaps this section should be titled just radiation rather than anti-radiation meds. I'm not sure why the returning rapters & pilots were subject to decontamination washing. I was under the impression the cluster had intense radiation because of so many stars so close together....not because it was filled with radioactive material. A ship inside the cluster would be exposed to intense radiation but as soon as it jumped out it would be fine. I've read the neutron bombs feed metal an intense amount of neutron s and metal objects like tanks could give off residual radiation up to two weeks after exposure. But washing wouldn't solve the problem. The 'hot' ships would have to be put aside until they cooled down.--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 20:22, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:I think that they were just trying to show that there was a decontamination process without getting into the real nitty-gritty details of it all. I would have preferred that they showed a little bit more realistic portrayal of a radiation decontamination, but at the same time I understand at this point in the season, they do cut corners where they can to recoup costs encured by the season opener. All this stuff isn't free and the research, props and everything... --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:32, 10 December 2006 (CST)

::Anti-rad medicines (at least those we have) can only block some specific tissues from certain types of radiation damage. Nothing you can ingest or inject will protect you totally; only avoidance and shielding may do that. Washing does wipe away contaminated (irradiated) materials so that the non-irradiated materials are no longer exposed, but yes, washing is a basic concept to show that something was done. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:52, 11 December 2006 (CST)

== Fourth squadron leader ==

As we saw at the end of this episode, ''Galactica'' has four squadrons of pilots under the command of CAG. The squadron leaders were (before Kat's death, of course): Starbuck, Kat, Two Times and... Did anyone notice who was the fourth? -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:44, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Two Times was the name of the third squad leader? Could only make out the word "Times" :) You've got better eyes then I do.
::It was Ricky "Two Times" Richardson. I'm currently completely updating the List of Pilots page. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:18, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:::I saw Richardson too but missed Ricky and Two Times. Does anyone have this episode yet on iTunes?--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 01:02, 10 December 2006 (CST)
::::I don't think that the camera ever pans over to where we can see the 4th leader. I got the ep on iTunes, but I have a season pass.
:::::I do too, it doesn't pan over to the first squadron, but judging by the fact that Showboat is in the fourth squadron, it has to be another Captain, maybe Stinger. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 06:47, 10 December 2006 (CST)

==Jupiter = Zeus==
I had the closed caption on and found it interesting that "Jupiter" was replaced by "Zeus". I was going to make post this as a note, but then I figured it would get shot down... because I have confidence issues. But still, this makes the debate over what the "Eye of Jupiter" is interesting (I'm leaning toward the god, not planet). Also, I got the impression from Three's line about "their gods and ours" that this is some kind of acknowledgement of Roman mythology? Or did I understand that wrong? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 08:59, 10 December 2006 (CST)

:It's not the first mention of Roman gods. We also have Mercury and Mars. The Eye of Jupiter is some kind of artifact they'll find down on the planet --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:03, 10 December 2006 (CST)

:: Maybe we're wrong, but my friends and I thought that the dialog implied that Jupiter was a separate entity from Zeus. Was it ever stated that the Lord of Kobol Hera was like the Greek Goddess, wife of Zeus and all that? It sounds like Hera isn't married to Zeus, but is married to another god named Jupiter.

:: Personally, I suspect that what happened is that they named the artifact (or whatever it is) the Eye of Jupiter, and then someone realized that was a Roman name, so now they've decided to make the pantheon diverge more from the Greeks. Perhaps Mercury and Mars are also Lords of Kobol. Have Ares and Hermes ever been mentioned? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:13, 10 December 2006 (CST)
:Ares has been mentioned in the webisodes. I think that the names can just be used interchangably and that they aren't seperate entities at all. For example they mentioned Hera and Jupiter in the same sentence, even referring to their relationship I think. That points strongly towards the names meaning the same. A couple of thousands of years have passed, so it makes some sense that the mythology has been adapted --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:38, 10 December 2006 (CST)

:: Nevermind. I remembered that Selloi did say that Hera was wife to Zeus. Unless Hera had two husbands, Jupiter must be an alternate name for Zeus. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 19:20, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Hera's roman equivalent is Juno, but it's clearly stated that Hera and Jupiter were spouses. At the same time, Zeus has been referred to numerous times. I think it's safe to suppose that they're just alternate names. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:33, 11 December 2006 (CST)

Espenson shed some light on this: http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/12/11/jane-espenson-on-post-the-passage-questions/ -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:33, 11 December 2006 (CST)

I thought immediately that the eye of jupiter was a reference to what our solar system looks like from outside of it... Jupiter is the eye in the middle of it. No? --galactageek
:My first thought was it was related to the storm in Jupiter, the Great Red Spot. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:55, 15 December 2006 (CST)
::Yeah, that didn't occur to me but that's an even better connection. I imagine that and to a lesser extent Saturn would be the main visual markers. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 14:46, 15 December 2006 (CST)

I think most everyone thought about the planet. I'm iffy to think if it actually translates to that, though, because once they find even one planet in the solar system, it would take something really clever to delay finding Earth at that point. It's not like they'd have to search too far to see this orb. However, and I can't take credit for figuring this out, you can't deny the coincidence of the fact that Jupiter is the fifth planet in the system (excluding dwarfs). I'm thinking of waiting to see what the five Cylons are about to see if there's a connection. And in another probably-not-a-coincidence, which I can claim as my own conjecture, it's interesting that this all revolves around number Three. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:54, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== Hot Dog's name ==

Great episode. Sorry to see Kat go. Anyway, I noticed that Hot Dog's name was spelled as Brendan Costanza with one "N", not as Constanza. I believe it has always been spelled as Constanza but I think it was spelled as Costanza in one previous episode. --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 10:13, 10 December 2006 (CST)

== Hybrid's Quote ==

Anyone got down what the Hybrid told Gaius? Figured it'd look good in the quote section... --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 14:27, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Thanks for the quote, I put up something about it in the Analysis section. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 11:15, 12 December 2006 (CST)

==Carol-Anne?==

Did Bill Adama refer to his wife as Carol-Anne in the sickbay scene? That would clear things up immeasurably with regard to [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]] and [[Anne Adama]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:44, 10 December 2006 (CST)

:I thought the same thing, but he has such a gruff voice it's hard to be sure. Maybe someone will know what the subtitles said? --[[User:Pearse|Pearse]] 10:36, 11 December 2006 (CST)

:I heard Carol-Anne as well, and the recent work that Jamie Bamber submitted to the scifipedia (which admittedly had some errors) did mention her name as being Carolanne. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:43, 11 December 2006 (CST)

::He, the cc, and canon have her as "Caroline". --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:34, 13 December 2006 (CST)

==Three killing herself softly==
I'm having a tough time believing that no one is noticing that D'Anna is having herself killed, even if the centurion is wiping it's logs. At the very least, she must have some accomplices helping her in the resurrection chamber.[[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 18:54, 10 December 2006 (CST)
:Agreed, it seems unlikely. Perhaps she's being aided by other Threes? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:31, 11 December 2006 (CST)
::in [[Hero]], it was clearly shown as a Three, Five, Six, and an Eight. [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 15:21, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:Centurions are always good accomplices. A Centurion could figure out where she'd download to and run there faster than a skinjob could. Three also made some drawings, and the most efficient way to do that is to have a Centurion ready with paper and pencils the second she ressurrects. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 11:25, 12 December 2006 (CST)

Another question is, is she resurrecting on the basestar? I thought they needed a resurrection ship to resurrect away from the home world. If she's resurrecting on the resurrection ship, and then travels back to the basestar, how can no one have noticed? It would seem like that would be time-consuming and her movements would be logged. I think maybe Caprica, and maybe a few others like Sharon, knows what D'Anna is doing, and because Caprica wants to know who the Final Five are as well, lets D'Anna continue without reporting her. --[[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 11:06, 12 December 2006 (EST)
:We believe that the Resurrection Ship contains the [[Cylon rebirthing tank]]s. Seems impractical to haul a body from the Rez Ship's storage over to a basestar for resurrection. They ''do'' have another Rez' Ship with them (see the episode [[Torn]]). In this episode, the other Cylons wonder what she is doing, but either can't or won't investigate (perhaps part of their collective block of knowledge of the Final Five). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:18, 15 December 2006 (CST)
::Right, so that definitely means that she has to travel back to the basestar where Baltar and Caprica Six are hanging out every time she is resurrected. You'd also think that a Cylon's death on a basestar when there are no hostilities would be suspicious in itself. I never considered that the Cylons have a collective block on thinking about the Final Five. It may explain why no one is trying to stop D'Anna. I always thought that they just don't talk about the Final Five with each other or Baltar, but that they do have substantial free will and free thought. Witness Sharon Agathon's repudiation of the Cylons, and Caprica Six & the other Sharon killing D'Anna and thinking outside the box about the Cylon-Human conflict. Such a theory raises many problems: (1) how did D'Anna get around this block? (2) if they all do have a block, then they can't stop someone like D'Anna? --[[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 12:21, 15 December 2006 (EST)
:::A Cylon dying aboard a baseship isn't that suspicious, someone could fall and die, or somehow get hurt severly enough to commit suicide. What the Cylons should be wondering is why there is a body of a dead Three with a Centurion bullet right through her head, while she has no other injuries whatsoever (i.e. no reason to commit suicide) and the Centurions' logs don't make mention of the incident. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:37, 15 December 2006 (CST)
:::Series history shows that other Cylon agents tend not to talk about other models until confronted with obvious evidence of their connection. "Boomer" Valerii, even after shooting Adama, did not claim herself as a Cylon. [[Sharon Agathon|"Caprica" Valerii]] didn't reveal [[D'Anna Biers]] or [[Cavil]] despite her increasing loyalty. This may also be a programming block. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:45, 15 December 2006 (CST)
:::: Okay, but then how did D'Anna get around this programming block? --[[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 13:56, 15 December 2006 (EST)
:::Spencerian a point there (such a programming block would be a very logical move, making it impossible to torture the identity of other Cylons out of known ones), but I don't think it's related. Baltar knows all 7 models revealed so far, and all Cylons know that, so there would be no reason not to talk about them, and no block to get around. Also remember that [[Caprica-Six]] is the one to tell Baltar that Three is "doing things". Your idea that the Cylons don't talk about her death trips may be true, but keep in mind that she was pretty authoritarian in ''Torn'' when ordering the basestar to jump while the other Cylons are still in discussion. The Threes seem to have some kind of authority over the other models, which could be related to her low number (Number One would be the big boss of course, so if One and Two are with the Final Five, Three would be "in command"). So if the Threes are really the surpreme model or the commanders of this particular basestar, the others might not be eager to speak foul of one of the Threes because they fear consequences. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 13:17, 15 December 2006 (CST)
::::This is possible even without a hierarchical structure, as well. Culturally the feeling might be "That's none of our business," or along the lines of giving her the benefit of the doubt that whatever she's doing is for the good of the Cylons. They don't really have the concept of traitors within their own society (Sharon Agathon excluded), so the idea of keeping close tabs on someone may be culturally taboo. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:21, 15 December 2006 (CST)
:::::Wait a second, what about Caprica Six and Boomer Sharon killing a Three? --[[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 14:34, 15 December 2006 (EST)
::::::True. Though they DID believe at the time they were doing it for the greater good of the Cylons. It wasn't an act of treason against the Cylons (like Sharon Agathon's taking of the colonial oath and theft of the launch keys) so much as a regrettable action taken in order to serve the greater good. Which, as it turns out Three would be begging to be killed (repeatedly) a little over a year later, which has to take at least a little of the sting out of that particular little "betrayal". --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:46, 15 December 2006 (CST)
:::::Steelviper has a good point here, it could just be a "Don't mind other models' business?"-thing. Now Three killing herself over and over again may be odd to the others, but at least it's not harmful or treason or whatever (like 6&8 killing that 3), so they'll probably think like "if she wants to be crazy, let her, as long as she does no harm". --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 17:33, 15 December 2006 (CST)

== Slip? ==
I removed the following from the Analysis:
* One of D'Anna's sketches in particular appears to depict the profile of a mustached and bearded male with long hair—a possible reference to Baltar; later in the episode after Baltar communes with the hybrid, D'Anna says "Could there be a connection between their gods and ours?" where "their" refers to the polytheistic human pantheon and "ours," the Cylon single god, a possible slip on her part indicating that she believes Baltar to be a Cylon, or that D'Anna believes Baltar has accepted the Cylon religion, and so no longer counts him as following human beliefs.

Feel free to put it back if you can figure out how to get it into a single bullet point. Part of the reason I pulled it was I interpreted the "ours" to refer to the Cylon (collectively) god and their to be the Colonials... regardless of who was standing there. It's more of an us vs them thing, in general, but I don't think she slipped or is implying anything from that necessarily, other than maybe an increased closeness that he MAY be considered as being on the side of "us". But mostly, let's just keep these things free of nested comments. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:13, 11 December 2006 (CST)

That's actually why I described it as a "possible slip," though I think it's considerably less likely tha Baltar would have accepted the Cylon religion with no evidential plot nods or development in that direction. We do, on the other hand, have Baltar asking D'Anna if he's one of the final five in this episode, making it an issue "at-hand" and her pronoun usage potentially premonitory (it's either that, or a fantastic red herring). I think it's thus at least a remotely tenable possibility worth sharing in the Wiki's analysis as educated speculation. --[[User:Mattpeckham|Mattpeckham]] 10:27, 11 December 2006 (CST)
:I don't really disagree. I was just hoping somebody could come up with a way to work in that nested bullet. In fact... I think I have an idea. I'll edit above, and see what you all think. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:39, 11 December 2006 (CST)
:: It's good. I've re-introduced it into the analysis portion of this guide page. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:16, 12 December 2006 (CST)

== Boxey? ==

Near the end of the episode, when Kara goes to put Kat's picture on the wall, did anyone else notice the "MISSING" poster? I swear Boxey was in the picture on it. A sly in-joke?--[[User:Kross|Kross]] 09:54, 11 December 2006 (CST)
:I'll check when I get home. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 10:02, 11 December 2006 (CST)
:Looks like a woman in a baseball cap to me. --[[User:Kidsafe|Kidsafe]] 13:22, 11 December 2006 (CST)
:Same here. Personally, I think the Hybrid's lines just before Baltar sticks his hand in her tank are a far better in-joke. "''Throughout history the nexus between man and machine has spawned some of the most dramatic, compelling and entertaining fiction''." aka "WHERE'S MY GODDAMN EMMY?!" --[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 23:31, 11 December 2006 (CST)

== Arguing with thyself ==

The "Carol-Anne" vs. "Caroline" subject should probably be hashed out here (and probably brought to [[BW:OC]]) before we re-introduce it to this page. Here's what was removed:

*William Adama refers to his ex-wife as Carol-Anne. [[Zak Adama]]'s mother was named as "Caroline" in "[[Act of Contrition]]", but in a flashback in "[[Scattered]]", Adama refers to his wife as "Anne", whom Tigh calls Adama's "new wife". This new information suggests that both "Caroline" and "Anne" are variants of a single person's name.
**In summary, Adama had two wives. His first wife was Caroline who was the mother of both Lee and Zak. However, because of his dedication to the service, his marriage was strained and eventually led to divorce. Afterwards, while he was in the merchant fleet, he met his second wife Anne and married her. It was this marriage that eventually led him back to the military.

Thanks! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:14, 12 December 2006 (CST)

:The first bullet point was mine, and I will defend it as-is. The second represents my older opinion, and is by no means a re-wording of the above point. If it is to stay I think it needs to present new argumentation. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:43, 15 December 2006 (CST)

*So is the info in the William Adama wiki page here inaccurate? The article makes the distinction between Caroline and Anne. Which is right? --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 13:17, 18 December 2006 (CST)

*It seems that may be possible, though it's distinctly unclear which is correct... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 13:23, 18 December 2006 (CST)

== How does the Hybrid know where earth is? ==

That's pretty much my question. Is the Hybrid connected to God? Or, is the location actually somewhere in the Cylon databases that only she can access (which would make a connection with the final five, if they know where earth is already)?-- [[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 11:03, 14 December 2006 (EST)
:We don't have these answers yet. We do know that the other Cylons know the Hybrid has remarkable insight on the nature of the universe as she is, in effect, the basestar itself. However, they treat her more of an "it" than a "her" and consider her babbling insane, except perhaps for [[Leoben Conoy]]. Obviously, the one Hybrid touched by Baltar discovered ''something'' in its travails, either by way of information from the dying basestar and its Hybrid that discovered the Lion's Head nebula and the human probe left there by the 13th tribe. The Eye of Jupiter data is possibly gleaned from that. The problem with being a Hybrid (a computer) is that, for the most part, you can't just speak on your own; somebody has to ask you for your input, which Baltar did by touching the Hybrid. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:15, 15 December 2006 (CST)
::Right. But why did she react the way she did to Baltar? Either (1) Baltar is a human, and his human-ness triggered Earth-related knowledge in the Hybrid, (2) Baltar is one of the Final Five. According to at least one theory on the Final Five, they know where Earth is, and are somehow connected to it, so his Final-Fiveness triggered Earth-related information in the Hybrid. Another question: does the ''Hybrid'' know who the Final Five are and what they are, exactly? Can D'Anna ask the Hybrid? Is the Hybrid one of the Final Five (since she doesn't look like any of the 7 models we've seen)? Is she a Cylon at all, or a purely organic being? Is she a human? -- [[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 12:30, 15 December 2006 (EST)
:The Hybrid may be a sort of an oracle. We've seen an oracle on New Caprica in Exodus Part II, and she was right in stating that Hera lived. There are also striking similarities between the two scenes: both concern prophecies, both concern Number Three and Hera, and both imply some kind of connection between the Colonial pantheon and the Cylon god (at the very least the oracle scene in Exodus seems to confirm the existence of the Cylon god). This leads me to thing that the Hybrid knows all this because it has the gift op prophecy ("She experiences life very different from us, Gaius. She swims in the heavens." - Number Six, Torn). And as to the nature of the Hybrid: there is a shot of the Hybrid in Torn that seems to show the Hybrid having an 'open' back, i.e. you see a lot of flesh where its back should be, and there are a lot of plugs exiting it there. That's probably why they call it a Hybrid, since it's some kind of combination between an organic being and a machine (even more than the Raiders). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:37, 15 December 2006 (CST)
:::As stated in the [[Hybrid]] article, it is a Cylon, but not a [[Cylon agent]] and certainly (since it appears in all basestars) not a Five member. We can guess all we want, but it's too speculative until we get more gems tonight in the mid-season cliffhanger. While it is possible that the Hybrid can have prescience like an oracle, the Cylons are too dumb to ask it, despite their encyclopedic knowledge of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] (which pretty much patterns out what the Colonials are probably doing).--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:45, 15 December 2006 (CST)
::::I don't think the Cylons are too dumb to ask it. It has nothing to do with "dumb." For one, maybe they have asked it, but they can't decipher her cryptic responses. Secondly, if Baltar is a Final-Five Cylon, he's just shown that he's not too dumb to ask it. Maybe it's a plot thing: if a Cylon asks it, and it just says "oh it's at these coordinates," the show is over. -- [[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 13:54, 15 December 2006 (EST)
:::::The Cylons, as a race, are extremely young (probably no less than 75 years old). Therefore, they likely don't know how to ask or even how to interpret any answers, since they don't have a history of their own that doesn't directly tie in to human history. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:38, 15 December 2006 (CST)
::::::What Joe said, which clarifies my earlier comment. The Cylons are intelligent, no doubt. But they lack the ''context'' to understand all the data in front of them, while, to humans, context is easy to grasp. Note the difference in how both races felt about the Lion's Head probe. The Cylons thought (and still continue to believe, it seems) it was a ruse for the virus, while the Colonials understood its significance immediately. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:54, 15 December 2006 (CST)

== Logic Holes. ==

So was the impenetrable radioactive gas Cloud slash Star Cluster Thingee that they absolutely ''had'' to go through (which they somehow could detect an algae-rich planet through), completely enveloping the entirety of the solar system, like a shell? Because, if it wasn't, no matter how big it was, they could've just gone around without, you know, people having to die. And there is not much of an excuse for not going around (cannot be circumnavigated? -- space is three dimensional) considering the vast amounts of space they have crossed in the past, even just getting to that point. Yeah, they haven't much food left, but folks can survive a few extra days without food; they can't eventually eat their protein mush if half the ships are dead or lost in a rather unpleasant... uh... Cloud Thing.

:There are many very plausible explanations. For example: They got to the star cluster and then their food got contaminated, reviewed astrometric logs and noticed that the algae planet was there, but oops, it's too late to go around.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 02:58, 4 January 2007 (CST)

And the one that really got to me... They needed the raptors to calculate the jumps and guide the civilian ships through the Unpleasant Radioactive Hot Death Field of Pain, but, the Bad Cloud of Yellow Ouch made stuff hard to see, causing lost ships and dead people. So, why not just attach the raptors to the ships, or hell, ride inside? They would know exactly where their target ship was because they would be in/on it, and they could safely, quickly, calculate the jump through the Big Bad Chernobyl Cloud to the Algea Smothered Planet of Infinite Convenience and Coincidence. Just a thought. --[[User:Jeffrey O. Gustafson|Jeffrey O. Gustafson]] [[User_Talk:Jeffrey O. Gustafson|<*>]] 06:45, 22 December 2006 (CST)
:As discussed elsewhere on this page, the extreme heat would melt the Raptors to the ships if they tried an attach-move. Also not all ships have landing bays able to harbor a Raptor. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 08:07, 22 December 2006 (CST)

Cylon Centurion Model 0005

2007-01-04T08:34:48Z

TaKometer:

:''This article discusses the robotic Cylons seen in the [[Cylon War]] of the [[Re-imagined Series]]. For information on the robotic Centurions from the [[Original Series]], see [[Centurion (TOS)]]. For information on the advanced successor to Model 0005, see [[Cylon Centurion]].''

[[Image:Centurion_armor_old.jpg|thumb|Cylon Centurion (Armor) on display. ([[Miniseries]]) Credit Sci-Fi Channel / GateWorld.net]]

The '''Cylon Centurion''' is a model of [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] used in various heavy to light labor and military applications. Before the [[Cylon War]], the model earned the nickname of "walking chrome [[toaster]]s" due to their physical appearance ([[Miniseries]]).

== Physical Appearance ==
Cylons are bipedal and, unlike the modern day [[Cylon Centurion]], are apparently not equipped with attached weapons packages. Despite this disadvantage, they can utilize any weapon at hand and are physically stronger than a human. Also, unlike their successors, the original Centurion were sentient.

This model averages 6-foot, 6-inches in height and is silver chrome in color. It is neither a fast model nor extremely efficient, due to its bulk. Its iconic feature is the one Cylon "eye" that glows red and pulsates back and forth in a visor-like slot.

This model has been replaced with the new [[Cylon Centurion]] in all appearances.

== Source Text ==
[[Image:Cylon_centurion_model_0005.jpg|thumb|[[Armistice Officer]]'s paper work on the Cylon Centurion model. ([[Miniseries]]) Credit: Universal Studios]]
Some information was gleaned from the paperwork reviewed by the [[Armistice Officer]] in the [[Miniseries]]. One issue with this information is the use of the word "yahren" (term used in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] meaning a year). Other paperwork visible in the same scene is labeled "[[Cimtar Peace Accord]]," which occurred in the Original Series as well, and is likely a technical mixup, as the Re-imagined Series uses minutes, seconds, and other Earth-counterpart time references.

The readable text of the Cylon Specifications sheet is as follows:

:'' <center>CYLON SPECIFICATIONS</center>''
:'' <center>Cylon Centurian [sic] Model 0005</center>''
: ''The Cylon:

<blockquote>''A Cylon is a bipedal robot. They are self-aware, and usually quite logical. They are not especially fast, but they are quite strong. They are artificial in nature, and are larger than a human, around 6' 6" (2m), although this varies with their type. Cylon eyes glow red, and pulse back and forth. A Cylon is powered by internal powercells which allow it to function without outside aid for around nine to ten [[yahren]]s.''</blockquote>

Note that the word centurion is in fact misspelled on the Armistice Officer's printout.

== Differences from the Original Series ==
This model of Cylon Centurion is one aspect of the Original Series that maintains a visual continuity to the Re-imagined Series as established by the [[Armistice Officer]]'s paperwork, and their appearance in the museums on Caprica and ''Galactica''.

However, because the Re-imagined Series does not use [[laser pistol]]s or other weaponry from the Original Series, it is unwise to assume that these Centurions fought or acted the same way as their Original Series counterpart. In fact, the [[Monclair|stylized painting]] in Commander [[William Adama]]'s quarters shows these Centurions in battle with Colonial forces in the first Cylon War, and appear to be far more agile than the Original Series versions to use items such as swords against humans.

Also, unlike the Original Series version, this Re-imagined Series android developed the evolved humanoid [[Cylon agent]] ([[The Night the Cylons Landed|one episode]] in ''[[Galactica 1980]]'' excluded).

== Other Depictions ==

The [[Monclair]] painting in [[Adama]]'s quarters has Model 0005s fighting using relatively primitive weapons. In a scene in the [[Miniseries]], some children can be seen running around in costumes which are patterned after this model.

== Canonical Spelling ==
There is some debate among fans regarding the canonical spelling of this model's name. [[Wikipedia:Centurion (Roman army)|Centurion]]s were professional officers of the Roman Army, and are widely acknowledged as the basis of the Cylon name. Some official material, such as the on-screen appearance of the Armistice Officer's datasheet and the packaging of the original Mattel action figures, used the spelling "Centurian." For the purposes of this wiki, the spelling "Centurion" is used throughout.

==References==

The [[Cylon Centurion]] model used in the Re-imagined Series is more versatile and dangerous than its predecessor, and has replaced Model 0005 in almost all, if not all, of its use over the course of the forty years between the end of the Cylon War and the holocaust, though it is implied by [[Number Six]] that some might still be around. Except for the museum copies, this version has not appeared in any episode of the Re-imagined Series.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Battlestar Group

2006-12-30T22:03:05Z

TaKometer: comprise fix.

:''"BSG" is an acronym for "Battlestar Group" and is also an acronym for the television series, ''Battlestar Galactica.'' See [[Battlestar Galactica]] for links to the series, the ships, and other general information about the series.''

'''Battlestar groups''' are groups of military vessels centered around at least one battlestar, often supported by a number of smaller vessels.
Given the number of available battlestars at the outbreak of hostilities with the [[Cylon attack]], it is possible that a battlestar group have more (3-4) battlestars operating as a single unit, likewise supported by additional Colonial vessels.

:''The above information is seen by [[Ronald D. Moore]] as analogous to a modern-day [[Wikipedia:Carrier battle group|aircraft carrier battle group]].<ref>[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000015 January 27, 2005 blog post by RDM]</ref>''

==Known Battlestar Groups==
The following battlestar groups are known to have existed before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]:

*BSG 41: Includes the battlestar ''[[Valkyrie]]''.
*BSG 62: Led by [[Mercury class battlestar|''Mercury'' class battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', under Admiral [[Helena Cain]].
*BSG 75: Led by [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', under [[William Adama]].

==See Also==
*[[List of terms (RDM)|List of terms in the Re-imagined Series]]

==Sources==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Kampfsterngruppe]]

Cylon detector

2006-12-30T22:01:25Z

TaKometer:

A '''Cylon detector''' is a scientific method of determining whether a subject is human or a [[Cylon]]-replicated clone.

Created by Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]], the test is administered by subjecting a person's blood to radioactive material taken from one of ''[[Galactica]]'s'' [[nuclear warheads]], at the suggestion of [[Number Six]] ([[Bastille Day]]). The test results are simple: either "red", indicating Cylon, or "green", indicating human. Yet with a single test cycle lasting approximately eleven hours, Baltar estimates it will take over 60 years (not counting breaks for sleep, food, bathroom, etc.) to test the whole fleet (numbering almost 50,000 people) ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

Development work on the Cylon detector had previously been halted when Dr. Baltar was accused by [[Shelly Godfrey]] of being a traitor and temporarily thrown in the [[brig]] ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]). Baltar's "innocence" was proven, however, by Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]], who had previously been ordered by Commander [[William Adama]] to assist Baltar in the development of the device ([[Water]]). Although considered a military secret, the Cylon detector is nevertheless the subject of constant rumor and innuendo ([[Act of Contrition]]).

Curiously, the Cylons themselves (in the form of Number Six) are the ones who initially suggest the construction of the Cylon detector by using the nuclear materials. Moreover, Baltar was only put in charge of the project because of his earlier detection of the fleet's first Cylon infiltrator, [[Aaron Doral#PR Executive (Doral #1)|Aaron Doral]], which was also greatly influenced by Number Six. ([[Miniseries]]) So, ironically, the Cylon detector is very much a product of Cylon invention.

The Cylon detector does, in fact, work. It confirmed that [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] was, indeed, a Cylon – a fact that Baltar hid from Valerii, fearing what her Cylon persona would do were he to tell her. ([[Flesh and Bone]]) After discovering that it would be easier for Baltar to make all the results "green", Baltar altered the device to mimic his method of thinking ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

Presently the Cylon detector is inoperative, as Dr. Baltar "donated" the nuclear warhead component of the device to [[Gina]] and her fellow [[Demand Peace]] operatives ([[Epiphanies]]).

Over a year later, the [[Lymphocytic encephalitis]] virus is accidentally discovered as fatal to Cylon agent physiology but harmless to humans. This revelation could be used as a future detector ([[A Measure of Salvation]]).

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Technology (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Galactica (TRS)

2006-12-30T21:57:33Z

TaKometer: /* History */

:''For the Original Series ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (TOS)]]. For the Video Game ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (Video Game)]].''
{{Ship Data
| image= Bsg-bsg-1.jpg
| title= Galactica (BS 75)
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= Approximately 2,650
| co= [[William Adama]]
| xo= [[Saul Tigh]] (resumed position as of [[The Passage]])
| role= Carrier / battleship hybrid
| weapons= Primary and point-defence [[KEW|Kinetic Energy Weapons]], conventional missiles, nuclear warheads, Vipers, Raptors
| status= Active
| img= Y
}}
[[Galactica type battlestar|The veteran battlestar]] '''''Galactica'' (BS 75)''' is the most famous warship in the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Built in time to participate in the [[Cylon War]], she remained the only military vessel without integrated [[Computers|computer networks]]. Without networked computers, ''Galactica'' never upgraded to the new [[Command Navigation Program|integrated defence system software]] developed by Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] and his [[Number Six|team]]. Because of this and other fortunes, she became one of only [[Pegasus (RDM)|two]] battlestars to survive the renewed [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]] on the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], some 40 years after the end of the first war. At the time of the attack, she was part of the [[75th Battlestar Group]] (BSG-75).

== History ==

''Galactica'' was one of the twelve first battlestars to be laid down by the Colonials. Initially they built a battlestar to represent each colony, where ''Galactica'' represented [[Caprica]]. As such, she is some 50 years old. Following the outbreak of Cylon hostilities several more battlestars were built. ''Galactica's'' first commander was named [[Nash]] ([[Miniseries]]).
[[Image:Mini gal top.jpg|left|thumb|A dorsal view of ''Galactica''. The starboard [[flight pod]] is covered by a window to form the [[Galactica Museum|museum area]].]]
The original battlestars were all designed with non-integrated computer systems to avoid the Cylons' demonstrated ability to override or subvert networked command and control systems early in the war ([[Miniseries]]). Rather than technological sophistication, the battlestar depended on its sheer bulk and defensive / offensive capabilities to ward off any threats to itself or the Colonies.

Following the [[Armistice Station|armistice]] with the Cylons, and their withdrawal from Colonial space, ''Galactica'' and her sister ships served the Twelve Colonies in a variety of roles. While her surviving sister ships were scrapped or upgraded to match the systems capabilities of newer Colonial vessels, ''Galactica'' continued in service without her systems being fully networked or integrated, making her unique among Colonial military vessels ([[Miniseries]]). Galactica was relegated to intrasystem duties for at least 20 years prior to her decommissioning.

With her active career drawing to a close, a decision was taken to retire ''Galactica'' and decommission her from service. [[Colonial Fleet]] chose not to scrap her, but to turn her into a combination of living museum to the original Cylon War and an educational center, with her conversion being overseen by her final commander, [[William Adama]] ([[Miniseries]]).

At the time of her formal decommissioning ceremony, ''Galactica'' is stripped of all but one of her operational [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] Mark VII squadrons, her munitions are destroyed, and her starboard landing pod is a pressurized [[Galactica Museum|museum]] which houses (among other things) a full squadron of [[Viper Mark II|Mk. II Vipers]] as well as a Viper model that appears [[Viper (TOS)|older than the Mark II]] (Miniseries, also in Deleted Scenes).

With the renewed and unexpected Cylon hostilities, ''Galactica'' quickly proves her worthiness as a warship is far from over as she sorties several Mark IIs retrieved from her museum to challenge her first Cylon attack in over 40 years (her last Mark VII squadron was sent to Caprica for reassignment). The old battlestar withstands a direct hit from a tactical nuclear missile while unsuccessfully performing evasive maneuvers, but later [[FTL|Jumps]] successfully to [[Ragnar Anchorage]] to retrieve much-needed ammunition stores at this hidden depot.

''Galactica'' finally bares her teeth in this new Cylon war as she single-handedly engages two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] with her gun batteries, providing covering fire for [[The Fleet (RDM)|an assortment of 75 civilian ships]] containing the last survivors of the Twelve Colonies. All ships, with ''Galactica'' last to leave the engagement zone, escape to a destination past the [[Red Line]], never to return to Colonial space.

Since the exodus of the Colonials from their overrun homeworlds, ''Galactica'' becomes both protector and provider for the Fleet. She provides covering fire for the Fleet during Cylon attacks no fewer than 240 times ([[33]], [[Act of Contrition]]). The battlestar provides much of the Fleet with recycled water ([[Water]]) and she is the primary source of medical care, where groups of civilians are periodically brought aboard for check-ups and treatment ([[Litmus]]). ''Galactica'' also undertakes internal policing duties within the Fleet ([[Water]], [[Bastille Day]]).

''Galactica'' successfully goes on the offensive against the Cylons, capturing a [[tylium]] fuel mining and processing plant in the process ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The [[Mercury class battlestar|advanced battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', commanded by Admiral [[Helena Cain]], joins ''Galactica'' approximately 6 months into their exile (See the series [[Timeline (RDM)|timeline]] for special information about this milestone).

''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'' destroy two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] as well as a critical Cylon support ship known as the [[Resurrection Ship]]. After Admiral Cain's death, President [[Laura Roslin]] promotes William Adama to Admiral, restoring him to overall Fleet command, but now with two battlestars at his disposal ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

==New Caprica==
Following the founding of [[New Caprica]], ''Galactica'' is assigned to the Orbital Defense Force that protects the planet. During this time the majority of its crew are sent to the surface in an effort to populate the planet and restore the human race — including most of its senior officers — seemingly convinced that the Cylons would never find New Caprica. The diminished staff inevitably results in basic maintenance becoming overlooked or ignored. Basic military responses, such as the launching of alert fighers and routine training exercises become difficult to execute. One year following the founding of New Caprica, a fleet of Cylon ships jump into orbit of the planet. Severely limited in its abilities, Admiral Adama and the Defense Fleet jumps away from New Caprica — vowing that they'd return to liberate the planet ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

==[[Battle of New Caprica]]==
Four months after the escape, ''Galactica'''s staff is still in the process of developing a rescue strategy with 16 training exercises having been completed and a 17th underway when an accident causes its early ending ([[Occupation]]). This forces both a change in strategy and the reformulation of a rescue plan to deal with personnel who have not seen conflict in 16 months. While ''Galactica'' fights to liberate the Colonials on-planet, ''Pegasus'' is assigned to protect the remaining civilian fleet and continue its search for [[Earth]] ("[[Precipice]]", "[[Exodus, Part I]]").

Coordinating with the New Caprica Resistance, ''Galactica'' deploys several waves of Vipers and Raptors to launch an offensive against the Cylons. As the resistance bombs Cylon facilities on the ground, Raptors deploy decoy drones to make it appear as if both ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' jumped into orbit. The Cylons reposition their forces to engage the decoys, while ''Galactica'' jumps into the atmosphere of the planet. ''Galactica'' deploys several squadrons as she falls to the surface, but takes severe damage from the atmospheric entry. Once back in orbit of the planet, the damage is ascertained as the Cylons close in. Close to death, ''Galactica'' survives thanks to the intervention of ''Pegasus''. Her [[FTL|FTL drives]] once again functioning, ''Galactica'' is able to escape from the system and reunites with the fleet, now the sole military vessel again after the destruction of ''Pegasus'' during the battle ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

== Equipment ==
[[Image:BSG-KEW-Turret.jpg|thumb|One of ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> large [[KEW|cannon]] turrets]]
''Galactica'' shares the same overall technical specifications as other original Colonial battlestars of [[Galactica type battlestar|her class]], with the following key differences and qualifications:

===Available Flight Pods===
As part of its decommissioning, ''Galactica's'' port [[flight pod]] was the only one in service. The starboard flight pod was enclosed and pressurized as the [[Galactica Museum|main museum display]] for her pending decommission. It is violently depressurized after a [[Heavy Raider]] crashes into it ([[Scattered]]).

By the time of the exodus from [[New Caprica]], the starboard hangar deck is being used as a temporary [[Camp Oil Slick|housing facility]] for refugees ([[Exodus, Part II]]). The starboard flight pod is apparently brought back to working flight recovery, as Major Lee Adama directs his Raptor boarding team to approach and land in the starboard pod ([[A Measure of Salvation]]).

===Nuclear Warheads===
''Galactica'' had five nuclear warheads as of "[[Bastille Day]]." Commander [[William Adama]] uses one warhead to destroy a Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] cannibalizes one to use in his [[Cylon Detector]], which he later gives to [[Gina]], who detonates it aboard ''[[Cloud Nine]]''. This leaves ''Galactica'' with three warheads (It is unknown how many nuclear warheads ''Pegasus'' still had when it encountered ''Galactica'', and they may have pooled their nuclear ordnance stockpiles since then). As of "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]", Galactica has at least seven warheads (launch tubes 4 through 10) attached to missiles that can be used for ground assault.

===Vipers===
Prior to the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', ''Galactica'' has at maximum thirty-four Vipers, of which at least six are Mark VIIs (c.f. [[Viper tally]]).

''Galactica'' receives additional supplies from ''Pegasus'' since her arrival that helps in repair and refurbishment of her original fighter complement; more recently, she receives new Mark VII Vipers built aboard ''Pegasus'' using raw materials mined from an asteroid and the advanced battlestar's Viper construction facilities ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus,]] [[Scar]]).

===Raptors===
The number of [[Raptor|Raptors]] available to ''Galactica'' is portrayed inconsistently. The current assumption is that the battlestar has at least five Raptors, having left [[Ragnar Anchorage]] with at least eight (c.f. [[Raptor tally]]).

===Other Craft===
*''Galactica'' currently posesses two [[Heavy Raider|Heavy Raiders]]. One is hit by ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> defensive fire and crashes into the starboard flight pod with unknown damage ([[Scattered]]). The other returns in operational status from Caprica ([[Home, Part I]]). One of ''Galactica'''s [[Heavy Raider]]s is relieved of its FTL navigation system for use on the rescue mission to [[Caprica]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).
*A second [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]] is in ''Galactica's'' possession after [[Daniel Novacek]]'s "escape" from a basestar ([[Hero]]), replacing the one retrieved by [[Kara Thrace]] and lost during the quest for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[Scattered]]).
*An experimental stealth fighter, the [[Blackbird]], is constructed using spare parts ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]) and used in a critically successful reconnaissance mission to explore the nature of what comes to be known as the [[Resurrection Ship]]. The Blackbird is later destroyed after completing her last mission during the [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship]] ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).
*''Galactica'' possesses fuel tankers used to supply fuel to Vipers and Raptors inflight without the need to dock with the ship. These may be dedicated craft or specially fitted shuttles or Raptors ([[Occupation]]).

=== Crew ===
Before the attack, ''Galactica'' has approximately 2,800 crewmen, while awaiting its decommissioning. By the time of the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', attrition has reduced this number to about 2,660. (c.f. [[Crew tally]])
*Between "[[Act of Contrition]]" and "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" ''Galactica's'' offensive capability is also greatly hampered by the number of [[List of Pilots|qualified pilots]] available, and their lack of flight simulators with which to train more. Since ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> reunion with ''Pegasus'', this has ceased to be an issue ([[Scar]]).

[[Image:Mini gal side viper.jpg|right|thumb|A stricken and slowly spinning ''Galactica'' after a nuclear missile strike. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck's]] [[Viper Mark II|Viper]] closes in to survey.]]

====Senior Staff following the Battle of New Caprica====
*Admiral [[William Adama]] - Commanding Officer
*Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] - [[Executive Officer]]
*Major [[Lee Adama]] - [[CAG|Commander, Air Group]]
*Major (Doctor) [[Cottle]] - [[Chief Medical Officer]]
*Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]] - [[Tactical officer]], Senior Officer of the Watch
*Lieutenant [[Hoshi]] - [[Communications Officer]]
*Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]] - Chief of the Deck

====Senior Staff before the founding of New Caprica====
*Admiral William Adama - Commanding Officer
*Colonel Saul Tigh - Executive Officer
*Captain Aaron Kelly - [[Landing Signal Officer]], Second Officer
*Major (Doctor) Cottle - Chief Medical Officer
*Captain Lee Adama - Commander, Air Group (Promoted to Commander and assigned as ''Pegasus'' CO)
*Captain [[Kara Thrace]] - Commander, Air Group
*Lieutenant Felix Gaeta - Tactical officer, Senior Officer of the Watch
*Chief Petty Officer Galen Tyrol - Chief of the Deck
*Sergeant [[Hadrian]] - [[Master-at-Arms]]
*Petty Officer 2nd Class [[Anastasia Dualla]] - Communications Officer

==Related Imagery==
<gallery>
Image:Galactica Ortho copy.jpg|''Galactica'' - Rendering by [[Zoic]]    
Image:BSG Ortho Bottom.jpg|''Galactica'' - Rendering by [[Zoic]]    
Image:Pointdefence2 101 1080i.jpg|''Galactica's'' point defence batteries in action    
</gallery>

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Battlestars]]
[[Category:Battlestars (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[es:Galactica (RDM)]]
[[de:Galactica (RDM)]]

{{featured article}}

Talk:The Twelve Colonies of Kobol/Archive3

2006-12-30T21:38:37Z

TaKometer: /* Virgon, Caprica, Ragnar */

==Virgon, Caprica, Ragnar==

I think it's fair to make them in the same star system, since it seems very reasonable, and having a definitive verb makes the article more encyclopedic.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 11:41, 1 December 2006 (CST)
:"Fair" and sourced are two different things. The article on [[Cyrannus]] goes heavily into this debate. I appreciate your point, but we need to leave it ambiguous and not [[BW:FANW|add our own unsourced interpretations]] to this. Colonial space is vast and need not necessarily be just a solar system, but the nearby space around it. It is likely that all those items are in a single system, but nothing we have confirms this. We just don't know. Further, the name of a company isn't a valid proof for this point: We have an American airline named "Ted," but I don't think that I can claim that it comes from the country of "Ted." We need to revert the article to keep the interpretation simple. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:25, 1 December 2006 (CST)
::I don't think this is fanwanking, since it is *derived information*: There's a screen where we see a diagram of Virgon and its orbit relative to the battle and galactica's position, which we know was only hours away from caprica.
::: Adama orders tactical to "begin a plot of all military units in the solar system, friendly or otherwise". The information that comes back is that the fight is shaping up "near virgon's orbit". It is also stated that it would have taken 3 days for galactica to get to Ragnar if they hadn't used their FTL drive. [[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 15:38, 30 December 2006 (CST)

==Merge proposal==

This article, and the articles for each of the Twelve Colonies, are all very short, and I don't see any of them expanding substantially in the near future. I think it would make for a nice looking, meaty article if we merged in each of the individual colony articles with this one under first-level headings. How say you all? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:50, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

I know this looks weird and kind of dumb. I'm still fiddling. It's easy to revert if the whole thing ends up being too hideous to bear. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:17, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

[[image:Banner_unknown1.gif|left|75px]][[image:Banner_unknown2.gif|right|75px]]
: I like the idea and whats up now. If we knew more about each colony, it would look nicer, but until then I think this is fine. Now... What to do with these other two banners? Now, the two colonies without banners are Leo and Aquarius, the lion and the water-bearer. Both of these symbols could be a water-bearer, I guess, but I think the black and white one looks like he has whisters, there and that shape at the top looks more ear-like. That would leave the blue and red one to be the water bearer, which I think makes sense enough. Think we could drop those in with a note as to their speculative nature, or best not to? --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:27, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::I'm leaving this one up to [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]], our resident flag-hunter. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:32, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The two colonies without banners is Aquarius and whatever the colonial name is for Libra. I saw in the mini-series they mentioned a colony called "ICON" alongside of "PICON" so I'm a little weirded out. As for Leonis, that flag has been found. I did a picture search in google for the zodiac's constellation and found the flag's symbol looked exactly like what I have designated. I can't remember, but I believe the constellation for Libra looked quite similar to the black one. Since we don't yet know as of yet what is the name for the Libra colony, I have left it blank. [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]]

:At least we know it isn't Ophiuchi or something. Roslin identifies Libra in the Tomb of Athena map room, although she doesn't give its modern name. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:59, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Realizing that it's still being worked on, it looks awful right now. You can't tell which banner goes to which colony, for one thing. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:30, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Personally, I don't really like the combination of all 12 colonies together either since there is no set border and down the road we will have pictures relating to each colony. This will make it slower to download. --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 12:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The problem, in my opinion, is that there's little to do at the main article other than simply list the colonies, and the majority of the individual colonies are stub-like in length. As for images, Caprica is the only planet we've seen thus far and probably the only one we're likely to see (unless we get Scorpion in a flashback in Pegasus or something). One thing we can do, if it becomes necessary, is link to full-length articles from just underneath the first-level headings.

:As for the banners, I agree that they could be confusing but I rather like them right now. Do either of you think it coudl be re-arranged in a better manner (maybe if they didn't alternate sides? But then there'd be a lot more wasted space)? Or is it a lost cause in your opinions? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:20, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::Yeah, you could try putting all the banners on the right. See how it looks. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 14:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::There, that's what they look like right-aligned. Frankly, I think they look better alternating. I don't find it confusing, and the wasted space bugs me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Hate to say it, but I don't like it at all. The banners overlap with the previous colony's "box", there are no clear markers indicating where one section begins and another ends, it just looks bad. (Part of the problem is that we don't have much information about many of the colonies at this point.) --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:07, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::It'd be better if we could insert a line across the entire page, and have the colony name under that line, along with the banner on the right. Then each colony would have a neat, easily readable section. I don't know if Wiki markup is capable of that though. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:10, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::::I still think it's a better option than thirteen articles that are completely insubstantial on their own. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

I added captions to some of the banners, and in the process deleted some of the <nowiki><div></nowiki> markup. Wikipedia recommends against using HTML ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_markup_with_HTML]), and I've been trying to learn from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax Extended image syntax] page. I can't figure out why a new section like <nowiki>==Caprica==</nowiki> doesn't appear on the same level as its banner. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:09, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:Ah ha! The wonders of '''<nowiki> </nowiki>'''! What do you guys think of the formatting now? --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:28, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::My HTML/CSS was not used lightly. That's really the one way to get the banners at the section heading level as I did. Frankly this seems like a more cumbersome version of my right-aligned attempt. I really dislike the caption boxes, too.
::I have a new idea: Rather than use the (rather long) banners, we can grab the icons from each, along with the background colors, and use them. I've created nine high-resolution versions from QuintusCinna's originals, which you can link to below:
::[http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/aerelon.png Aerelon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/canceron.png Canceron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/caprica.png Caprica], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/gemenon.png Gemenon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/picon.png Picon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/sagittaron.png Sagittaron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpion.png Scorpion], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/tauron.png Tauron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/virgon.png Virgon]
::These could be scaled down to almost any size and still look nice. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:35, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Without caption boxes, it's not clear what the banners are. I know it seems self-explanatory to us, but for someone who's never seen them before, it's not. I'll take a look at the icons in a bit. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 17:03, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I find repeating "This is the Banner of X" to be tedious, and the red background to be jarring. Couldn't we simply note that the banner/icon/flag/colors of the colony is provided to the right? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:06, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Peter. You've saved us all. As I said earlier, I liked it when the banner appeared to be hanging from the red line under its colony's name. I share Peter's dislike for tons of white space and alternating the sides seemed to create the least of that. However, if we just had the emblem and colors from each flag, we could do it below the red line as Fang seems to like, and not have this huge, long graphic. Maybe we can then link the full banner pics and, if we get enough information that a given colony's article wouldn't be a stub, we can display it there. Does all that make sense? --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I like it with banners to right, with titling, albeit a little redundant. Not sure how to deal with the "white space" of many areas, but we're really not going to get them filled until we get more data, so that is that. I feel it's informative enough as it stands, but I'll leave the formatting arguments alone. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:52, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

==Which flag is which?==
A close viewing of [[Colonial Day]] indicates that the flag currently labeled as [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]] belongs to Safiya Sanne's seat - either Picon or Leonis; and that the black flag belongs to Robin Wenutu's seat (Canceron), and that VIrgon's flag is a white field with a green inner stripe and yellow outer stripe. I'm curious as to how QuintusCinna came to his conclusion that the delegates aren't seated at their apprporiate flags, since I don't know any other evidence linking particular flags to colonies. I guess Scorpion is pretty obvious, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:34, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Don't trust the banners lining up with those they represent in [[Colonial Day]]. The reason I say this is that [[Tom Zarek]] is in one area of the room and his very obvious banner for Sagitarron is completely in another area. This is the same for Virgon's banner and their representative. There are 3 different questions I carry thanks to the shows I have watched. In the mini-series we see the banners are in this order from left to right: [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Aerelon|Aerelon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], Scorpion, Aquaria(?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]], Libra (?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]], [[Canceron]] (?), [[Leonis]]. Is this in the order that the colonies signed the unification treaty or is the order for the flags random or is it in the order they were nuked? Though I am sure the producers, directors, and such just put them up in random order, it is now a sense of fact for the show. If we were to believe they were placed up there, the banners must be up there in some order that is according to military protocol for flag bearing. In Colonial Day I add 2 more questions. We see that the banners are behind the delegates in a different order than in the mini-series. This means they were either a) put up randomly or b) have a separate purpose than those shown at the end of the mini-series (nuked, treaty order, or other). Then we see that the delegates are put in a different order than the banners behind them. The Gemenon delegate is clearly seen toward the middle and the Gemenon flag is clearly in a different area. The same questions come up for the delegates: are they randomly placed or is there reason. It's not alphabetical, and placements of delegates and banners in every society is always in some sort of traditional order. I hope that the Battlestar Galactica producers, writers, and such will be able to answer this though I suspect they won't because they have REAL lives.

As for the Picon flag, the constellation looks quite similar to the picon banner and the same goes for Tauron's with Taurus. I have no doubt with those. The Libra's icon can be seen in this picture http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/HorseAstrology/AstrologySymbol.gif 2 clockwise from Sagittarius.
--[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 1:12, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

==New Icons==
What do you think? We might consider making them smaller and removing the image frame and caption, but I'd also be happy leaving them as they are. It's nice to have a place to note that some of the symbols are only tentatively identified with the colonies in question. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:42, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:It looks fine. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 09:11, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I like 'em. I'd say smaller, though. Of course... I have my thumb settings to 300px so that screen shots are large enough to be intelligible, so smaller to me would be about 150px or 100px. I also like alternating for balance, but that's just me. I alternate right a left in other articles, too. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:21, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

I have a set of colonial glyphs that were lifted from a copy of the voting ballots used in Lay Down Your Burdens Pt1. I can upload both the cap of the ballot and the vector graphics file of the glyphs. I've already released the glyphs for public use, so I have no problem with their being used here. The ballot image I have has Baltar's name blurred out, as that was a spoiler at the time the image was released. The image orginally came from the Reproduction Props Forum, where a member got hold of one of the actual props used in the episode. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 14:54, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks for the offer. It would be nice to get a look at them. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:16, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
::Okay, I've uploaded the four jpgs I have of the voting ballot. They still reside on my server at the moment. If you decide to include them in the wiki, I'll upload them to the database. 
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotSm.jpg Small Image of Ballot Front]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotFront.jpg Large Image of Ballot Front]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotBack.jpg Large Image of Ballot Back]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotTop.jpg Very Large Image of Ballot Top]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/ColonialGlyphs.gif My version of the colonial glyphs (gif)]
:: If you want to play with the Photoshop custom shapes file, it's [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/LeesBSGshapes.csh.zip here (zip)]. [[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 00:25, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

==Residence vs. Tribe==

I think there's a difference between "where a character currently makes their residence" and "what colony they are from". I think "what colony they are from" means "what ''tribe''" they are. For example, Dualla could have been away from Sagittaron for years and lived on another Colony, but she's still from the Sagittaron tribe. In "Bastille Day", she describes herself as "a Sagittaron", not "someone ''from'' Sagittaron".

Anyway, I also think that non-canonical information from SkyOne website should not be used in assuming Stabuck may be from Picon, not Caprica. We should wait until this is said on either the Scifi.com official site, or on screen.
--Ricimer, 16 Sept, 2005

:Actually, Dee did say "I'm from Sagittaron". [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:56, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

::I agree with the original sentiment. Under the [[The_Twelve_Colonies_%28RDM%29#Natives_2|Caprica Natives]] section, it lists Gaius Baltar, but then clearly states "(Born on Sagittaron)." If that is the case, then he is a native of ... drumroll please ... '''Sagittaron''', not Caprica. He may have resided there, but he was a Sagitton.

::I think this should be changed, but didn't want to just change it without some discussion. Unless there is a good reason given, though, I'm going to make the change. /[[User:LucentPhoenix|LucentPhoenix]] 08:26, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::The source for Baltar's saggitaron origin was an old SkyOne biography which we no longer consider to be a credible source. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:58, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::::Ah.... alright, then. If it's no longer considered credible, we should probably remove the reference from the Caprica Native page, then, shouldn't we? --[[User:LucentPhoenix|LucentPhoenix]] 15:37, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::::By all means. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:31, 21 November 2006 (CST)

==Outposts==

Ricimer wrote: ''The Colonials actually expanded their sphere of influence over time beyond the original Twelve Colonies to include several outposts, bases, and mining colonies (such as [[Troy]]) in other systems ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html| RDM, January 30, 2005]), though they were apparently minor extensions of the original Twelve Colonies rather than independently functioning worlds in their own right, and when the Cylons overwhelmed the Twelve Colonies themselves no mention is even explicity made about these minor worlds, seeming to take it as a given that the destruction of the Twelve Colonies would equal the destruction of humanity, and that these outposts were not significant enough to pose any challenge to the Cylon fleet.''

RDM's actual comments are:

:Q: "Did the colonies have outposts, bases, or trade partners outside of the 12 colonies. Did they even explore other systems. The colonies could have had observatories, listening posts, or even scientific research teams exploring other planets beyond the colonial system(s). They could encounter any of these which could lead to supplies, raw materials, food, fuel etc. "

:RDM: I think that's probably true, but part of our premise is that the fleet has Jumped far out into unexplored space in an effort to elude the Cylons, so we won't be encountered any other outposts or colonies.

I think that's a very weak confirmation, and if we're going to include it here, it should reflect the vagueness of RDM's actual comment. I have replaced it with the following:

:Ronald D. Moore has suggested that the Colonies probably maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems, but it is unlikely that ''Galactica'' will encounter them in the course of the series. ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016|RDM, January 30, 2005])

--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:35, 15 December 2005 (EST)

==Scorpion vs. Scorpia==

At present, we have a name card from "[[Colonial Day]]" and the name of the [[Scorpia Traveler]] in favor of "Scorpia", and the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] in favor of "Scorpion". Ricimer, if you want to make a case for "Scorpion" over "Scorpia", you ''must'' cite an episode quote, and I will not produce it for you. Your uncited revisions are anathema to our goal of accuracy. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:34, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:I am sorry, I was in a hurry to get out and didn't have time to wip out my copy of the series companion. On p.86 of "Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion", by David Bassom, there is an "''early'' concept sketch of the flags of the Twele Colonies"; On this, it lists the names "Scorpia", but also "Libran", and "Aquarion". "[[Colonial Day]]" established that these two Colonies are in fact named "Libra" and "Aquaria", in dialog, etc. This evidence has led me to believe that "Scorpia" was amongst some early ideas for Colony names that were thrown around in the early stages of production, but which were later changed; however, the art and props department wasn't notified of the switch, or made a mistake, etc. I'm also inclined to this line of thinking because the props in this scene feature several now-infamous goofs, such as the switcheroo between Canceron, Picon, Leonis, etc., etc. As for the evidence from "Scorpia Traveler", there's also a "Gemini" ship, as well as mispelling etc. which have led me to the belief that certain ship names are just meant for asthetic value and do not necessarily reflect the actual name of their home Colony. In "Home, Part II" it was established that the Colonies used to have "ancient names" which align more closely to the signs of the Zodiac, but which over the millenia have drifted away into their present form. Perhaps some ship captains just felt like naming their vessels after the more ancient names. I don't know. But the main points remain: A) Ship names aren't very reliable as an information source, B) this scene had many goofs in it, C) the official companion shows that this was an early name thrown around, but later abandoned, and several of these early names have been disproven by this point. Therefore, I think "Scorpion Fleet Shipyards", the first ''prominent'' mention of Scorpion/Scorpia, taken with the above evidence, proves that the true name of the Colony is "Scorpion". What's everyone else's consensus? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:24, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::I'm with Ricimer on this one.--Zareck Rocks 15:04, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::I agree with Ricimer, as Cain's mention of the "scorpion fleet shipyards" is the only canonical reference to place when it comes to the scorpio-related colony. It has also been shown, as Ricimer mentions above, that the ship names seem to be variations of the colony names i.e. [[Gemenon Traveller]] and the [[Gemini]]. So we can't necessarily glean the name of the scorpio-related colony from the [[Scorpia Traveller]], for there may also be a Scorpion Traveller.
::However, unless someone can verify this with subtitles, Cain could be saying Scorpi''an'' fleet shipyards, rather than Scorpi''on'', thereby inferring that the colony name is Scorpia (I dare to speculate that the Caprica would have it's own Caprican fleet shipyards(if it did indeed have shipyards)). I don't have the DVDs, as they're not yet available in Canada, but someone should really check this, it could answer this question --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 16:20, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::I've grepped the TwizTV logs, and the Scorpia/Scorpion colony has never been referred to apart from the instances we've already listed. So, here's what that means:
:::#We have a mention of the "Scorpia Traveler", which matches the "Gemenon Traveler". "Freighter Gemini" is a TOS reference.
:::#We have a comment that might be the "Scorpion" shipyards, or the "Scorpian" shipyards.
:::#We have a clear and readable screenshot of the name of the colony.
:::We should not "correct" the name of the colony to what we think it "should" be, when we have unequivocal evidence staring us in the face. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:09, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::I'm sorry, but it doesn't really seem like the above evidence is "unequivocal". Thankfully, I think "Resurrection Ship" will make further mention of ''Pegasus' '' flight from the shipyards, and we will probably hear the name again. Best to wait until then. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:05, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::Let me clarify. We have at least seen "Scorpia" spelled out. We have never even ''heard'' "Scorpion", except in a context that might easily have been "Scorpian". In my opinion, the two options here are "Scorpia" or "We don't know". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:45, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::Wait a minute, someone out there has got to have the DVD set of the second season, we should be able to determine the definitive name of the scorpio colony from that. Although, I suppose, Peter, that you're suggesting we leave it at Scorpia until someone can check the subtitles. That sounds fine with me. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 22:56, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::How will that tell us definitively? It was only mentioned in "Pegasus", in the ambiguous dialogue mentioned above. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:00, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::Like I said, we stand a good chance of hearing it again in the very next two episodes, so I suggest we leave things as they are, and reach a final decision after "Resurrection Ship, Part II". Although we could get subtitles from the DVD, subtitles can be notoriously innaccurate when it comes to the finer points of spelling, i.e. Scorpion vs. Scorpian. Perhaps we could rewatch Pegasus, and check the inflection that Michelle Forbes uses; I ''think'' she clearly said "-ion" (as opposed to "-ian"). I'll check again; however, even hearing the dialog personally, I doubt this will give a DEFINATIVE answer in ANY form as the actress could have been just slurring it. I don't know. Well, I'll check for the sake of checking. Again, I think we should "wait and see" on this one. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:11, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::::I just watched the episode and the subtitles (however inaccurate) do say "Scorpion." It does sound like Forbes says more of an -ion than -ian. Just my two cents. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:30, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::::Thank you Talos. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:04, 26 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::::Scorpion would be pronounced with the full vowel "{{IPA|piɑn}}, while "Scorpian" would use a reduced vowel, {{IPA|piən}} or {{IPA|piɨn}}. The latter is what I hear, although Ricimer is right that it could just be "slurring". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:09, 26 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::::::I've isolated Michelle Forbes's pronunciation of "Scorpi_n" and uploaded it [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpian.wav here]. Unfortunately, the last syllable is basically whispered and cannot be analyzed for vowel formants. It does sound very reduced to me, however. This is not usually the case for Picon, Gemenon, etc. which are almost always realized with full vowels.
:::::::::::Note, by the way, that the ''animal'' spelled "Scorpion" would be pronounced the same as the adjective "Scorpian", while a colony called Scorpion would be pronounced "Skor-pee-on". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:05, 28 December 2005 (EST)

Final call for objections before I move the relevant articles. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:23, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

== Location ==

I didn't want to get into a revert war, so... How, exactly, are the colonies' positions indicated in the Tomb of Athena? I just watched that ep last night and I don't remember any arrows or name tags... If the theory is that the colonies are inside the constellation that shares their name, then I think I'll have to disagree. Not possible. The zodiac constellations are spread about in our sky in a circle, meaning they're not very near each other at all (so if "the Colonies" can be considered some single area of space that's small enough to go from one end to another inside months they need to be closer than a large ring of space encircling Earth) and all the stars in a constellation aren't even necessarily near each other. --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:42, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:I don't think the positions of the Twelve Colonies are indicated at all by the tomb of Athena. It's just a map to Earth (Earth being the only spot where those constellations would appear in that configuration). It is interesting that would mean that there isn't a direct correlation between the constellations and the colonies that they are named after... (other than as a rememberance of where they came from, kind of). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:50, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:The fact of the matter is that the Tomb of Athena holographic map to Earth shows constellations made of the symbols of the Twelve Tribees/Colonies; these constellations are '''entirely arbitrary'''; that is, they were designated purely because they resemble the symbols of the Colonies; each planet of the 12 is in ''no way'' in each constellation. Besides, that would mean they'd often end up in separate galaxies. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:23, 4 January 2006 (EST)

::Well, no, not separate galaxies, but further apart from each other than each is from earth. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:34, 4 January 2006 (EST)

::: My point exactly, Peter. Well said. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:05, 5 January 2006 (EST)

Can we take the part about all the colonies orbiting the same star out of the article? I think it's pretty clear that they're all separate systems, unless someone has different information. --[[User:Bahamut|Bahamut]] 02:42, 12 March 2006 (EST)

:Why do you think that's clear? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:59, 12 March 2006 (CST)

::Mostly because of the use of FTL technology, but also because of the improbability of a star having twelve planets that can support human life. It's discussed elsewhere in the Wiki that it's likely they're all separate systems. Maybe instead of taking it out altogether we should add a caveat about how it's disputed or at least link to the other discussion? --[[User:Bahamut|Bahamut]] 18:36, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Upon re-watching the Miniseries (IMHO anyway) all references are given as hours from caprica, but when the war alert first goes off and Cmdr Adama asks to "scan the system" (circa 48mins in) the report is given that "Now, looks like the main fight is shaping up over here near Virgon's orbit" and a few lines latter "If we can keep Virgon between us and the battle". Which to me means that Virgon, Caprica and Ragnar (a gas giant) are all in the same solar system. thoughts anyone? [[User:Pickle UK|Pickle UK]] 00:45, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:I think this is a settled issue. From Moore's blog, [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000016 30 January 2005]:
::Does it make sense that there would be a star system with 12 inhabitable planets? Not really, but that was in the original and at some point I decided to run with that as another nod to the old show.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:56, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::An important note on this topic is that among young stars, they tend to be grouped in what is known as "stellar associations" which are several stars that are gravitational bound together by virtue of them all being born at the same time in the same stellar nursery and all being within a light year of each other; hence you could call them a system. Now, over time as they get more to our Sun's age, they will disapate over a great distance and no longer be associated, but this is over 100s of millions to billions of years. Generally it is considered unlikely that such young stars bear planets that possess life but does not rule out the idea that they have planets... earth-like planets. Therefore, a stellar association, possessing 12 or more stars....all within a light year of each other...--[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 01:40, 10 April 2006 (PST)

::::Honestly, this is the sort of speculation that impedes my enjoyment of the show. It doesn't matter, and I don't care. Feel free to speculate as you will, but I think the whole debate is distracting and unworthy of more than a footnote. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:37, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

== More on flags ==

I found this a while ago. A user on Sci-Fi.com's messageboard going by "bescincimevsim" has made some incredible renderings of all twelve colonial flags that, in my oppinion look very good and accurate to what has been seen on the show. It might be worth checking out the [http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=BattlestarGalactica&Number=1310569&Searchpage=2&Main=1310569&Words=bescincimevsim&topic=&Search=true#Post1310569 topic here]. I ''think'' they might be avalible for free use, but then again the guy doesn't seem to be available for contact anymore a he posted only one topic, the one about the flags, then stopped posting altogether in mid October. Either way, I think it should be worth checking out. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 18:05, 25 January 2006 (EST)

:We should not use these. I think they're just fanart. There is a page in the official companion of *early* flag designs (the names are wrong in some cases, etc. so this page of the book is an early draft and shouldn't be used as fact). However, this guy also confuses the symbols of Tauron and Leonis. I mean it's just a guy posting on a messageboard. The Citation Crusade wouldn't stand for it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:22, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::The assignment of colony and flag is obviously non-canon, but the graphics themselves are far superior to the ones we're using. We should ask him to license them to us under the CCL. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:56, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::Alternately, if he can be contacted, ask him to create corrected ones based on a CCL.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 14:40, 2 February 2006 (EST)
::Well, I've done some tweaking to our icons making them look a little crisper and sort-of rationalised the originals by QuintusCinna and the ones seen on the Sci-Fi BBS by bescincimevsim. I'll upload them soon and if you don't like them then I guess you can just revert them later. Just thought I'd help out, is all. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 00:12, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::I think they're an improvement. Thank you, Kahran. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:57, 17 March 2006 (CST)

==Colonial Flags==
The Colonial Flags, as listed on this page, have been matched to their colonies based solely on on-screen evidence. Given their dubious veracity on other matters, I am not prepared to take the Official Magazine's word for it over what we've actually seen — at least not without a discussion. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:26, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:Okay, then you should know that the flags also match what is written in the Battlestar Galactica The Official Companion. It has a page for Colonial Day that lists the flasg for each colony and it's the smae as the Magazine flag listings, so that's two sources that support my listings as opposed the shoddy on-screen evidence from the episodes. --Ltcrashdown 22:30, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::I've examined the footage of Colonial Day and QuintusCinna's arguments, and concluded that they aren't very strong. I'm going to revert this back to your version. Do you have a cite for the Official Companion as well? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:35, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::Here's the info: Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion by David Bassom, page 86, Published by Titan Books, London, August 2005
:::By the way, what was QuintusCinna's source?--Ltcrashdown 22:39, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::::For the colonies at issue here, it was mostly conjecture on his part. I remembered his argument having more basis than it actually did. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:26, 8 February 2006 (EST)

== We are Gemenese if you Please! ==

I think the way this works (and once we nail it down, we should put it on S&C, probably) is that someone ''from'' Gemenon is a Gemenon, but the adjective for describing them is Gemenese. So, like, a nice Gemenese Rug or something. This is a throwback to the language of Gemenese in TOS, I think. Now... Is someone from Caprica Caprican and "a Caprica" or does that one match the adjective (like I'm from Texas, thus I am Texan and "a Texan" if that helps)? Whatcha think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:07, 19 February 2006 (EST)

== Aerilon? ==

Unless someone cites a source on this spelling correction, I think this needs to be reverted. Anyone? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) 19:46, 20 March 2006 (CST)
:Seems like other people are using it: http://s9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=658 the same way. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:52, 20 March 2006 (CST)
::It is also on http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/ on the Celestra bio. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:55, 20 March 2006 (CST)

::: Well, the forum link is inconclusive, as the poster using that spelling questions it himself and is not, quite frankly, a reliable source. The SciFi.com link is more helpful, but still doesn't help much. They have two different spellings for a couple of the Colonies still around their site, so we can't really trust them on this. Does anyone have a copy of the various writings spawned from the show? If the companions and magazines and scifi.com all agreed, even though none of those are on our big list of accepted sources, I'd consider that a pretty good indication that we'd been misspelling it this whole time. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) 20:30, 20 March 2006 (CST)

==Spelling==
This topic keeps coming up, and our spelling conventions do not seem to match the ones generally used throughout fandom, so I want to have a definitive location for sources on spelling used here. Our emphasis, as always, is on citation and accuracy.

The names of six of the colonies can be seen fully spelled out in the episode "Colonial Day". There should be no room for debate on these.
<gallery>
Image:sp-canceron.jpg|Canceron
Image:sp-caprica.jpg|Caprica
Image:sp-gemenon.jpg|Gemenon
Image:sp-leonis.jpg|Leonis
Image:sp-sagittaron.jpg|Sagittaron
Image:sp-virgon.jpg|Virgon
</gallery>

We can also see the first three letters of "Picon": 
[[Image:sp-picon.jpg|sp-picon.jpg]] 
There's no serious controversy here, as no other spelling has been proposed for that colony.

Although not visible in the episode, the spelling of Scorpia can be clearly seen in a high-resolution [http://galactica.emedian.net/episode/1.11/imagepages/image6.html publicity still]: 
[[Image:sp-scorpia.jpg|150px]] 
This is complicated by [[Helena Cain]]'s reference to the "Scorpian Fleet Shipyards" in the episode "[[Pegasus (episode)]]". [[Talk:The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Scorpion vs. Scorpia|Extensive discussion]] on battlestar wiki concluded that the visual evidence should be deferred to, and also suggested that she may have been using "Scorpian" as an adjectival form of the colony's name. This was supported by Michelle Forbes's use of a reduced vowel in the final syllable, while other colony names used throughout the series have used the fully realized vowel /ɑ/.

The names "Aquaria" and "Tauron" were given in "[[Colonial Day]]" and "[[Pegasus (episode)]]", respectively. There is no serious debate on their spelling.

Very little evidence is available regarding the colony corresponding to Libra. Neither it nor its citizens have ever been mentioned in the miniseries or 33 episodes aired to date, nor has RDM mentioned the colony in his blog. SciFi.com's website refers to the [[Space Park]] as being of "Libran" registry, but it is unclear whether this is meant to be the nominal or adjectival form of the colony's name (see below).

The name of the colony corresponding to Aries was named as {{IPA|'ɛɹ.lɑn}} in "[[Bastille Day]]". Two spellings have been proposed. It is worth noting that the second vowel, which is the one at issue, is not actually pronounced by actress Mary McDonnell.

'''AERILON''' 
'''Official Use'''

The SciFi.com website refers to the [[Celestra]] as being of "Aerilon" registry. This is apparently the nominal form, despite the anomalous use of the adjectival "Caprica" on the "Colonial One" entry on the same webpage. (The adjectival forms of Scorpia (Scorpian, established in "[[Pegasus (episode)]]") and Tauron (Tauranian, established in "[[Resistance]]") are not used.)

RDM uses this spelling in a [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000016 blog entry] dated 30 January, 2005.

'''Fan Use'''
*Google returns approximately [http://www.google.com/search?q=aerilon 400 matches] for this spelling.
*This spelling is used by transcript website SadGeezer.com.

'''AERELON''' 
'''Fan Use'''
*Google returns approximately [http://www.google.com/search?q=aerelon 300 matches] for this spelling.
*[http://tviv.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(2003)/The_Twelve_Colonies TV IV]
--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:34, 23 March 2006 (CST)

== Should I Add This Or Not? ==

On Wikipedia there is a lot more information on the Twelve Colonies, including founders and names of capital cities. Should I add this information to the corresponding colony section on this page or is this information that doesn't belong on this wiki? --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 11:04, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:We're pretty strict about [[BW:CITE|citations]] around here. Unless we can find official sources to back up that info, it doesn't belong here. I'm pretty sure that it hasn't been officially established names for all Twelve Lords of Kobol (if there are exactly twelve, as RDM was a bit vague on this), and I've got no idea where they are getting the capitol names from. If there is an official source, we'd be good, but it feels like this may be derived from fan fiction (which would have NO place on this article) or at best from novelizations/alternate continuity (which could at least be argued, but is still suspect). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:17, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::Understood. I just reviewed the article and it said that the names were non-canonical. In that case, Wikipedia's information has NO place in this article. If the characters start listing off this information in the next seasons (which I SERIOUSLY doubt they will at this point), I can put it in. However, I want to note that I found confirmation for Aerelon's capital (including a photo) and the colony description on Google. You have to type "Aerelon" (make sure it's spelled EXACTLY like that) and then scroll down the top ten results page. The title is simply "Aerelon" and is located two results under the listing for our own wiki. The description starts with "Capital: Maegera"--[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 19:24, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:::That's a fan site. Please read over the [[BW:CITE|Citation Jihad]] for a list of official sources. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:00, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Thank you no end, Homeworld616, for pointing out this grievous error on Wikipedia. *One person* posted their own fanfic into there: they even left a warning label: "These following sections contain equal parts fanon and canon.".....er, it is impossible to be both "fanon" and "canon" at the same time. ----->'''I have personally deleted all of this fanfic from Wikipedia, and warned the user that posted it'''. Sorry, but they get all kinds on wikipedia. Thanks for asking us and bringing it to our attention 616--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:45, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:No problem, Merovingian. It's my pleasure to help make Wikipedia and its associated sites better for all. I can't believe someone actually tried to pass their fanfic off as fact. Oh well, so long as it has been deleted. But we need to watch for other users posting crap around here. Wikipedia's Twelve Colonies may just be the beginning. To quote Shakespeare from ''The Tempest,'' "what is past is prologue." --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 01:12, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Notes on Culture ==

All right, has anyone noticed that in the Colonies, virtually everything that would be a rectangle here on Earth (pictureframe, sheet of paper, etc.) is a ''hexagon''? To cite some examples, in the [[Miniseries]] Roslin is handed a slip of paper describing the Cylon attack on a networked Battlestar. That slip is a hexagon. Adama's picture frame of him, Zak and Lee is also a hexagon. Even the computers are hexagons. Now, a hexagon has 6 sides (half of 12, which is seemingly a symbolic number in the series), and is a practical shape for use (12-gons would be stupid for paper) so does anyone think that the hexagon is some kind of symbolic shape for the Colonials?

Also, in the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]], Starbuck is walking past display cases full of ancient pottery. Culture is transmitted in the form of art and artifacts, so while this may be trivial I feel like it is worth noting.

In addition to this, notice how Elosha's priestess garment is pretty eccentric, while Brother Cavil's uniform is a plain black cassock with some purple decorations. A difference of garb choice for priestesses and priests, perhaps?

Furthermore, in the [[Miniseries]], notice those Caprican mothers carting their babies around the city in those oversized plastic baby carriages that look like they provide too much protection for the tots. Perhaps a link to the Scripture statement saying that life is precious and should be protected? I can't think of any other way for the carriage manufacturer to be willing to put extra money into obtaining more plastic resources for the increased carriage size and safety. No wait, lawsuits... But that still wouldn't explain the supersized babymobiles and extra costs and materials needed for manufacturing.

Cereals! In [[Sacrifice]] (I think, I'm not sure), Roslin tells an aggressive Billy Keikaya, "Looks like someone ate their Wheaties today." Okay, so...General Mills was actually a ''Colonial'' corporation and they imported it to Earth while we weren't looking. This might just imply that the Colonials also ate Cascadian Farm, Frescarini, Lucky Charms, Chex Mix, Cheerios, Hamburger Helper...the list goes on. Either that or I'm just making a big deal over some trivial prodcut placement.

Finally, in TOS, most of the buildings in Caprica (with exception of Long Beach City Hall where the episode was filmed), were pyramids. In the RDM series, there aren't as many pyramids, but there are a couple in Caprica City (let me get the image). Since there is circumstantial evidence that life began on Earth, does anyone think these pyramids could be a link with the Egyptians, who already had a thriving civilization and the Giza pyramids built by the time Greece (and perhaps the Kobol-sect) became an ancient powerhouse?

Taking all of this into consideration, should I initiate a "Culture" section for the Twelve Colonies (RDM)? --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:36, 3 July 2006 (CDT)
:According the the episode transcript...
:'''[[Laura Roslin]]''': Someone took their vitamins this morning. 
:'''[[Billy Keikeya]]''': Yeah, I don't know what got into me. 
:--''[[Sacrifice]]''
:There's an "[[Arts and Literature of the Twelve Colonies|arts and lit article]]" under construction for the 12 Colonies seriesthat might be a home for some of the architecture, pottery, etc. notes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:08, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks, Steelviper. I'll look into that. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 15:18, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

[[Image:Mini-Caprica City.jpg]]
Here's the image. Look to the FAR right hand side and note the two pyramid office buildings, one with steep lateral faces and the other looking kind of like a glass reproduction of the Giza pyramids. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:41, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

Arts and Lit is where we're working on that. Note, that it's really just an in-joke from the Miniseries: they had to "cut corners" on the production due to budget restraints, so it started out as a joke that they were "cutting corners" on everything. The problem was, as this series progressed this became a logistical nightmare, as literally hours of work had to be spent into doing this, i.e. stacks of books in Cain's quarters. As for the image....I'm sorry but it's too vague to actually make out if it's anything. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:24, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

== Links ==

Folks, I've noticed there's some ambiguity going on with the Wiki reference links, and I think we should probably straighten them out. In short, do we want to link to the astrological sign, or the constellations? I note this because I just cleaned up a few of the links before realizing this should be discussed, as (for example), someone had [[Wikipedia:Capricorn|Capricorn]] point to the WP page there, which is a disambig page, instead of [[Wikipedia:Capricorn (astrology)|Capricorn (astrology)]] or [[Wikipedia:Capricornus|Capricorn'''us''']] (the constellation; note the spelling, as there's at least one more constellation that swings this way - [[Wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpius]]). Just a thought or two to muddy the waters further. ^_^--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 22:00, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:I'd prefer to link to the constellations. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:08, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:: Done and done, then.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:44, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

The Twelve Colonies of Kobol

2006-12-30T21:35:11Z

TaKometer: see talk

:''This article discusses the Twelve Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. See [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)]] for information on the Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]].''

{{RDM twelve colonies series}}

Approximately 2,000 years ago, twelve of the thirteen tribes of [[Kobol]] leave the planet due to an issue involving their [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|gods]], settling on 12 worlds <ref>Stated by [[Elosha]] in the [[miniseries]]. The use of "worlds" is ambiguous, as the colonies could be large habitable moons as well as planets.</ref> some distance away ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]). Their names and icons originally corresponded to the twelve signs of the ancient tribes, although these [[wikipedia:Zodiac|names]] drifted over time<ref>Flag matches with Colonies from "Encyclopedia Galactica." [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine]]. Feb./Mar. 2006: 50-55.</ref> ([[Home, Part II]]).

Although Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and President [[Laura Roslin]] mention leaving the solar system
<ref>The 2003 [[Video Game]] and the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] name the home system (or galaxy) for the Twelve Colonies as [[Cyrannus]]. However, since both the Video Game and Original Series material is of a [[Battlestar Wiki:Separate continuity|separate continuity]], its name for the system is questionable for the Re-imagined Series. In an early script of the miniseries, the Twelve Colonies were originally located on a single world - [[Kobol]]. However, this was later revised to twelve separate worlds, in keeping with the Original Series concept.</ref>, it is unclear whether all twelve colonies are in this solar system or what the name of this star might be. However, Caprica, Virgon, and [[Ragnar]], a gas giant, are within the same star system ([[Miniseries]]).

The Colonies had approximately 20 billion inhabitants prior to the Cylon attack ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance|The Resistance]])<ref>In an early draft manuscript of the [[Miniseries]], Secretary [[Laura Roslin]] notes that the [[Colonial Ministry of Defense|Ministry of Defense]] conducts the government census, and had a count of 12 billion individuals. Saul Tigh's approximation in ''The Resistance'', as aired, should be taken as the correct value.</ref>.

The Colonies maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems<ref>[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 Sourced from a January 30, 2005] blog entry by [[Ronald D. Moore]] on Sci-Fi.com.</ref>. Economic activity, such as [[tylium]] mining also occurred outside of the immediate vicinity around the Colonies ([[Hero]]).

==Aerelon==
[[Image:ColonialColors7.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aerelon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Aries (constellation)|Aries]]

"Fifteen people died" when President [[Richard Adar]], for reasons unexplained, sent the [[Colonial Marine Corps|Marines]] to Aerelon ([[Water]]).

The mining colony of [[Troy]], destroyed in a cataclysmic explosion ([[Flesh and Bone]]) is located near Aerelon, and may have been operated by natives of that world. [[Troy]] was the alleged home of [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

The pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] team from Aerelon played against the [[Caprica Buccaneers]] in one of the last games before the Cylon attack. They apparently won ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).

A photo of a grief-stricken soldier staring out at the ruins of Aerelon's capital hangs behind President Roslin's desk and on the bulkhead of the pilot ready room on ''Galactica'' (titled [["Lest We Forget"]]). ''Galactica's ''pilots touch the photo for luck as they file past to the hangar.

===Natives===
*[[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] - ([[Cylon agent#Ron Moore elaborates on the twelve models|Falsified]]. Precise home given as the [[Troy]] mining colony)
*[[Sekou Hamilton]] (Presumably - editor of the ''Aerelon Gazette'')
*[[Socinus]]
*The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aerelon voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]])

===Publications===
*''[[Aerelon Gazette]]''

 

==Aquaria==
[[Image:ColonialColors12.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aquaria]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Aquarius (constellation)|Aquarius]])

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aquaria voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).
 

==Canceron==
[[Image:ColonialColors9.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Canceron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Cancer (constellation)|Cancer]]

*[[Robin Wenutu]] is the Canceron Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]].

 

==Caprica==
[[Image:ColonialColors3.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Caprica]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Capricornus|Capricornus]])

Caprica is a large blue-green planet. Its largest population center is [[Caprica City]], which serves as the seat of all three branches of the Colonial [[Government]], making Caprica effectively the capital of the Twelve Colonies. Caprica City is surrounded by other small towns and hamlets, such as [[Oasis]].

Thus far, Caprica is the only planet of the Twelve Colonies that viewers have seen directly. The series' opening credits show Caprica City, as well as the nuclear bombing of Caprica itself.

Other major cities included [[Delphi]], famous for the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]] and also home to a large spaceport. During the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], the Cylons spared Delphi from nuclear bombardment in order to use it as a base of operations in their occupation of the planet. The human [[Caprica Resistance|resistance]] cell, led by [[Samuel Anders]], operates near Delphi.

Caprica is known for its fine Caprican cloth (which Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] wears), [[fumarella leaf]], [[Caprican Imperial|Caprican cigars]] and art.

A railway line can be seen below the balcony of Baltar's house on Caprica during "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]." What appear to be internal combustion engine powered vehicles, such as cars and trucks, are seen extensively in shots of Caprica.

===Natives===
*[[William Adama|William "Husker" Adama]]. (Born in [[Qualai]])
*[[Caroline Adama]]
*[[Lee Adama|Lee "Apollo" Adama]].
*Lt. [[Zak Adama]]
*Doctor [[Gaius Baltar]] (Born on Sagittaron)
*[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] (Had an apartment in Delphi. Sky One sources state that she was born on Picon, but this information is questionable).
*[[James McManus]] (Presumably - editor of the ''[[Caprican Times]]'')
*[[Aaron Doral]] (alleged home was in [[Oasis]])
*President [[Richard Adar]] (Presumably - according to background information from SkyOne he started his political career as the mayor of [[Caprica City]])

===Publications and Media===
*''[[Caprican Times]]''
*''[[Caprican Life]]''
*[[Caprica 5]]
*[[Channel 7 News]]

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Caprica Buccaneers]]

===See also===
* [[Caprica City]]
* [[Caprica Beach]]
* [[Gup's Point]]
* [[Oasis]]
* [[Pilgrim Bay]]
* [[Qualai]]
* [[Unnamed Cities of Caprica]]

 

==Gemenon==
[[Image:ColonialColors5.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Gemenon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Gemini (constellation)|Gemini]]

Gemenon natives are known for their literal interpretations of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] ([[Fragged]]). Most of the population of Gemenon was apparently very strongly opposed to the federal laws legalizing abortion. Traditional Gemenese law declares children to be the property of their parents ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

Gemenon is home to the Kobol College School of Public Relations ([[Miniseries]]). One of the last ever pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] games was held on Gemenon just prior to the [[Cylon attack]] on the Colonies ([[Miniseries]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Sarah Porter]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*Corporal [[Venner]]
*Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Rya Kibby]]
 

==Leonis==
[[Image:ColonialColors8.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Leonis]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Leo (constellation)|Leo]]

[[Safiya Sanne]] is identified as both Leonis's and [[#Picon|Picon]]'s representative on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. See his article for details.

 

==Libra==
[[Image:ColonialColors11.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Libra]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Libra (constellation)|Libra]]

''Practically no information has been given yet regarding the colony corresponding to Libra. Its colonial-era name also has yet to be confirmed.''

The ''[[Space Park]]'', a passenger liner in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]], is of Libran registry.

 

==Picon==
[[Image:ColonialColors2.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Picon]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Pisces (constellation)|Pisces]])

Picon is the location for the [[Picon Fleet Headquarters|Colonial Fleet Headquarters]] ([[Miniseries]]); as such, much of its population is probably made up of military personnel and their dependents. The colony came under heavy attack during the early stages of the Cylon attack. President [[Richard Adar]] offered a complete and unconditional surrender to the Cylons after Picon was nuked; this overture was ignored ([[Miniseries]], [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)|deleted scene]]).

[[Ellen Tigh]] claimed to be at the airport on Picon, "on her way home" when the attack started, and that some "unknown hero" ensured she was put on the last ship to get off the planet ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Safiya Sanne]], [[Quorum of Twelve]] (Although see his article for some confusion on the matter)
* [[Playa Palacios]], Veteran columnist from the ''Picon Star Tribune'' (presumed a resident)
* [[Asha Janik]], Cylon sympathizer, member of the "[[Demand Peace]]" movement

===Publications===
*''[[Picon Star Tribune]]''

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Picon Panthers]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

 

==Sagittaron==
[[Image:ColonialColors10.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Sagittaron]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Sagittarius (constellation)|Sagittarius]])

Sagittaron endured centuries of exploitation at the hands of the other Colonies ([[Bastille Day]]), so much so that even after [[Articles of Colonization|unified Colonial rule]], [[Tom Zarek]] led an organized series of terrorist acts against the established government there, many years before the fall of the Colonies. One of these acts include blowing up a government building ([[Bastille Day]]). Under Sagittarian penal law, convicted felons lose their citizenship, but have it automatically reinstated after they finish serving their sentences. This included the right to vote and to stand for election ([[Colonial Day]]).

As of the episode "[[33]]," 5,251 natives of the planet resided in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]].

===Natives===
*Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*Representative [[Tom Zarek]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*[[Valance]] ([[Colonial Day]])
*[[Leon Grimes]] ([[Colonial Day]])

===Note===
Sagittaron is referred to as "Sagittar'''i'''on" in the [[Miniseries]], but this changed to "Sagittaron" when the regular series began.

 

==Scorpia==
[[Image:ColonialColors6.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Scorpia]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpio]]

Home to a [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] [[Scorpian Fleet Shipyards|shipyard]], where battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' was docked during the Cylon attack. Scorpia native [[Eladio Puasha]] serves as its Quorum delegate.

 

==Tauron==
[[Image:ColonialColors4.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Tauron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Taurus (constellation)|Taurus]]

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Tauron votes for [[Gaius Baltar]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).

Tauron was reputed to be somewhat of a rogue colony, often disobeying directives decided by the colonies, and operated [[tylium]] mining facilities close to the [[Armistice Line]] ([[Hero]]).

===Natives===
*Admiral [[Helena Cain]]

 

==Virgon==
[[Image:ColonialColors1.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Virgon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Virgo (constellation)|Virgo]]

[[Marshall Bagot]] is the Virgon Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. In public ceremony, the Virgon delegate wears a light blue sash.

Soon after the Cylon attack began, the bulk of the spacewide offensive by the Colonials began "shaping up" over the planet. The battle ostensibly ends with the destruction of battlestar ''[[Atlantia (RDM)|Atlantia]]'' and the death of Admiral [[Nagala]].

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z|*]]
[[Category:Places]]
[[Category:Planets|*]]
[[Category:Twelve Colonies|*]]
[[Category:RDM|*]]

[[de:Die Zwölf Kolonien (RDM)]]
[[es:Las Doce Colonias (RDM)]]

Ragnar Anchorage

2006-12-22T19:04:28Z

TaKometer:

[[Image:ragnar_station.jpg|thumb|Ragnar Anchorage (credit: [[Zoic]] Studios, 2003)]]

'''Ragnar Anchorage''' (also called "Ragnar Station" or "Ragnar Station Ammunition Reserve") is a Colonial armory suspended in the upper atmosphere of the gas giant [[Ragnar]] ([[Miniseries]]).

When the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] launch their [[Cylon Attack|surprise attack]] on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], the [[battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' was caught without any munitions for her main and point-defense batteries, having dumped them as part of her decommissioning ceremonies prior to the battle. [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] determines that Ragnar Anchorage offers the best opportunity for re-arming the ship, even though it is some 3 days' travel from ''Galactica'''s position at [[sublight]] speeds and [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] refers to docking at Ragnar Anchorage as a "super bitch." His decision may well be based on the sound reasoning that the Anchorage, suspended in the stormy upper atmosphere of the planet [[Ragnar]], offered ''Galactica'' the best opportunity to re-arm while reducing the risk of the Cylons finding them and renewing their planned attack before the ship can defend herself. The [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] was aware that the atmosphere of the planet Ragnar's electromagnetic environment adversely affects Cylon technology, and hiding ships in the planet was an established strategy.

While at Ragnar Anchorage, ''Galactica'' obtains enough munitions to completely re-arm her guns, and she also collects a number of [[Class-D]] warheads. Her crew also encounter [[Leoben Conoy]], posing as an arms trader, who eventually gives the Colonials their first discovery of [[Cylon agent|humanoid Cylon infiltrators]].

[[Image:ragnar.jpg|thumb|''Galactica'' and her new [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] leaving Ragnar Anchorage]]

While at Ragnar, ''Galactica'' is joined by a civilian convoy of survivors gathered by new President [[Laura Roslin]]. When they arrive, Adama is persuaded to alter his original plan to send ''Galactica'' into a suicidal fight against the Cylons into one of exodus from the Colonies to save the last of humanity.

''Galactica'' protects her new [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] as they make a [[FTL|Jump]] from Ragnar towards the [[Promar Sector]], well beyond the "[[Red Line]]" of chartered space, never to return to the solar system of the Colonies in an effort to escape the Cylons.

Soon after the battle, the Cylons dock at the station to retrieve the Cylon agent [[Aaron Doral]] and afterwards presumably abandon the station.

==Notes==
*To minimize the time needed to get to Ragnar, [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] orders ''[[Galactica]]'''s [[FTL]] drive systems prepared for use, which prompts a critical comment from Colonel Tigh that ''Galactica''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s FTL drive systems had not been used in over 20 years. See [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]] for more on why ''Galactica'' may not have jumped for such a long time.

*The name "Ragnar" is used allegorically by the show writers to remind the viewer of [[Wikipedia:Ragnarok|Ragnarok]], the apocalyptic battle of the gods of Norse mythology. Curiously, the story of Ragnarok parallels with the career of [[William Adama]], the former commander of battlestar ''[[Valkyrie]]''. In mythology, a ''[[Wikipedia:Valkyrie|Valkyrie]]'' was a minor female deity who chose the most heroic fallen warriors to ascend to Valhalla where they would await Ragnorok. After the [[Hero|failed secret Cylon reconnaisance mission]], Adama is transferred from ''Valkyrie'' to commander of ''Galactica'' before the Cylon attack, and later, with the fall of the Colonies, finds himself in the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]], the last Colonial fight within Colonial space.

*The dark, dank, extremely dirty interior of Ragnar Anchorage was filmed in the [http://www.rogerssugar.com/overview/vancouver.html Roger's Sugar Mill in Vancouver], according to the Miniseries DVD commentary.

*The destruction of ''Galactica'''s munitions was shown in a deleted scene of the [[Miniseries]] DVD set as part of the decommissioning ceremonies.

==See Also==
* [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]. Details the battle and provides links to successive Cylon encounters.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Places]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[es:Ancladero Ragnar]]

Ragnar Anchorage

2006-12-22T18:58:06Z

TaKometer: dump suggests spent ammo, armory suggests a place where stores are kept.

[[Image:ragnar_station.jpg|thumb|Ragnar Anchorage (credit: [[Zoic]] Studios, 2003)]]

'''Ragnar Anchorage''' (also called "Ragnar Station" or "Ragnar Station Ammunition Reserve") is a Colonial armory suspended in the upper atmosphere of the gas giant [[Ragnar]] ([[Miniseries]]).

When the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] launch their [[Cylon Attack|surprise attack]] on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], the [[battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' was caught without any munitions for her main and point-defense batteries, having dumped them as part of her decommissioning ceremonies prior to the battle. [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] determines that Ragnar Anchorage offers the best opportunity for re-arming the ship, even though it is some 3 days' travel from ''Galactica'''s position at [[sublight]] speeds and [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] refers to docking at Ragnar Anchorage as a "super bitch." His decision may well be based on the sound reasoning that the Anchorage, suspended in the stormy upper atmosphere of the planet [[Ragnar]], offers ''Galactica'' the best opportunity to re-arm while reducing the risk of the Cylons finding them and renewing their planned attack before the ship can defend herself. The [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] learned that the atmosphere of the planet Ragnar emitted a kind of radiation that adversely affected Cylon technology and cloaked ships residing within the storm.

While at Ragnar Anchorage, ''Galactica'' obtains enough munitions to completely re-arm her guns, and she also collects a number of [[Class-D]] warheads. Her crew also encounter [[Leoben Conoy]], posing as an arms trader, who eventually gives the Colonials their first discovery of [[Cylon agent|humanoid Cylon infiltrators]].

[[Image:ragnar.jpg|thumb|''Galactica'' and her new [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] leaving Ragnar Anchorage]]

While at Ragnar, ''Galactica'' is joined by a civilian convoy of survivors gathered by new President [[Laura Roslin]]. When they arrive, Adama is persuaded to alter his original plan to send ''Galactica'' into a suicidal fight against the Cylons into one of exodus from the Colonies to save the last of humanity.

''Galactica'' protects her new [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] as they make a [[FTL|Jump]] from Ragnar towards the [[Promar Sector]], well beyond the "[[Red Line]]" of chartered space, never to return to the solar system of the Colonies in an effort to escape the Cylons.

Soon after the battle, the Cylons dock at the station to retrieve the Cylon agent [[Aaron Doral]] and afterwards presumably abandon the station.

==Notes==
*To minimize the time needed to get to Ragnar, [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] orders ''[[Galactica]]'''s [[FTL]] drive systems prepared for use, which prompts a critical comment from Colonel Tigh that ''Galactica''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s FTL drive systems had not been used in over 20 years. See [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]] for more on why ''Galactica'' may not have jumped for such a long time.

*The name "Ragnar" is used allegorically by the show writers to remind the viewer of [[Wikipedia:Ragnarok|Ragnarok]], the apocalyptic battle of the gods of Norse mythology. Curiously, the story of Ragnarok parallels with the career of [[William Adama]], the former commander of battlestar ''[[Valkyrie]]''. In mythology, a ''[[Wikipedia:Valkyrie|Valkyrie]]'' was a minor female deity who chose the most heroic fallen warriors to ascend to Valhalla where they would await Ragnorok. After the [[Hero|failed secret Cylon reconnaisance mission]], Adama is transferred from ''Valkyrie'' to commander of ''Galactica'' before the Cylon attack, and later, with the fall of the Colonies, finds himself in the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]], the last Colonial fight within Colonial space.

*The dark, dank, extremely dirty interior of Ragnar Anchorage was filmed in the [http://www.rogerssugar.com/overview/vancouver.html Roger's Sugar Mill in Vancouver], according to the Miniseries DVD commentary.

*The destruction of ''Galactica'''s munitions was shown in a deleted scene of the [[Miniseries]] DVD set as part of the decommissioning ceremonies.

==See Also==
* [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]. Details the battle and provides links to successive Cylon encounters.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Places]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[es:Ancladero Ragnar]]

Talk:The Twelve Colonies of Kobol/Archive3

2006-12-20T03:01:02Z

TaKometer: /* Virgon, Caprica, Ragnar */

==Virgon, Caprica, Ragnar==

I think it's fair to make them in the same star system, since it seems very reasonable, and having a definitive verb makes the article more encyclopedic.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 11:41, 1 December 2006 (CST)
:"Fair" and sourced are two different things. The article on [[Cyrannus]] goes heavily into this debate. I appreciate your point, but we need to leave it ambiguous and not [[BW:FANW|add our own unsourced interpretations]] to this. Colonial space is vast and need not necessarily be just a solar system, but the nearby space around it. It is likely that all those items are in a single system, but nothing we have confirms this. We just don't know. Further, the name of a company isn't a valid proof for this point: We have an American airline named "Ted," but I don't think that I can claim that it comes from the country of "Ted." We need to revert the article to keep the interpretation simple. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:25, 1 December 2006 (CST)
::I don't think this is fanwanking, since it is *derived information*: There's a screen where we see a diagram of Virgon and its orbit relative to the battle and galactica's position, which we know was only hours away from caprica.

==Merge proposal==

This article, and the articles for each of the Twelve Colonies, are all very short, and I don't see any of them expanding substantially in the near future. I think it would make for a nice looking, meaty article if we merged in each of the individual colony articles with this one under first-level headings. How say you all? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:50, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

I know this looks weird and kind of dumb. I'm still fiddling. It's easy to revert if the whole thing ends up being too hideous to bear. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:17, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

[[image:Banner_unknown1.gif|left|75px]][[image:Banner_unknown2.gif|right|75px]]
: I like the idea and whats up now. If we knew more about each colony, it would look nicer, but until then I think this is fine. Now... What to do with these other two banners? Now, the two colonies without banners are Leo and Aquarius, the lion and the water-bearer. Both of these symbols could be a water-bearer, I guess, but I think the black and white one looks like he has whisters, there and that shape at the top looks more ear-like. That would leave the blue and red one to be the water bearer, which I think makes sense enough. Think we could drop those in with a note as to their speculative nature, or best not to? --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:27, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::I'm leaving this one up to [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]], our resident flag-hunter. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:32, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The two colonies without banners is Aquarius and whatever the colonial name is for Libra. I saw in the mini-series they mentioned a colony called "ICON" alongside of "PICON" so I'm a little weirded out. As for Leonis, that flag has been found. I did a picture search in google for the zodiac's constellation and found the flag's symbol looked exactly like what I have designated. I can't remember, but I believe the constellation for Libra looked quite similar to the black one. Since we don't yet know as of yet what is the name for the Libra colony, I have left it blank. [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]]

:At least we know it isn't Ophiuchi or something. Roslin identifies Libra in the Tomb of Athena map room, although she doesn't give its modern name. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:59, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Realizing that it's still being worked on, it looks awful right now. You can't tell which banner goes to which colony, for one thing. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:30, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Personally, I don't really like the combination of all 12 colonies together either since there is no set border and down the road we will have pictures relating to each colony. This will make it slower to download. --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 12:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The problem, in my opinion, is that there's little to do at the main article other than simply list the colonies, and the majority of the individual colonies are stub-like in length. As for images, Caprica is the only planet we've seen thus far and probably the only one we're likely to see (unless we get Scorpion in a flashback in Pegasus or something). One thing we can do, if it becomes necessary, is link to full-length articles from just underneath the first-level headings.

:As for the banners, I agree that they could be confusing but I rather like them right now. Do either of you think it coudl be re-arranged in a better manner (maybe if they didn't alternate sides? But then there'd be a lot more wasted space)? Or is it a lost cause in your opinions? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:20, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::Yeah, you could try putting all the banners on the right. See how it looks. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 14:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::There, that's what they look like right-aligned. Frankly, I think they look better alternating. I don't find it confusing, and the wasted space bugs me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Hate to say it, but I don't like it at all. The banners overlap with the previous colony's "box", there are no clear markers indicating where one section begins and another ends, it just looks bad. (Part of the problem is that we don't have much information about many of the colonies at this point.) --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:07, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::It'd be better if we could insert a line across the entire page, and have the colony name under that line, along with the banner on the right. Then each colony would have a neat, easily readable section. I don't know if Wiki markup is capable of that though. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:10, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::::I still think it's a better option than thirteen articles that are completely insubstantial on their own. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

I added captions to some of the banners, and in the process deleted some of the <nowiki><div></nowiki> markup. Wikipedia recommends against using HTML ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_markup_with_HTML]), and I've been trying to learn from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax Extended image syntax] page. I can't figure out why a new section like <nowiki>==Caprica==</nowiki> doesn't appear on the same level as its banner. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:09, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:Ah ha! The wonders of '''<nowiki> </nowiki>'''! What do you guys think of the formatting now? --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:28, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::My HTML/CSS was not used lightly. That's really the one way to get the banners at the section heading level as I did. Frankly this seems like a more cumbersome version of my right-aligned attempt. I really dislike the caption boxes, too.
::I have a new idea: Rather than use the (rather long) banners, we can grab the icons from each, along with the background colors, and use them. I've created nine high-resolution versions from QuintusCinna's originals, which you can link to below:
::[http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/aerelon.png Aerelon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/canceron.png Canceron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/caprica.png Caprica], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/gemenon.png Gemenon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/picon.png Picon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/sagittaron.png Sagittaron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpion.png Scorpion], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/tauron.png Tauron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/virgon.png Virgon]
::These could be scaled down to almost any size and still look nice. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:35, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Without caption boxes, it's not clear what the banners are. I know it seems self-explanatory to us, but for someone who's never seen them before, it's not. I'll take a look at the icons in a bit. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 17:03, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I find repeating "This is the Banner of X" to be tedious, and the red background to be jarring. Couldn't we simply note that the banner/icon/flag/colors of the colony is provided to the right? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:06, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Peter. You've saved us all. As I said earlier, I liked it when the banner appeared to be hanging from the red line under its colony's name. I share Peter's dislike for tons of white space and alternating the sides seemed to create the least of that. However, if we just had the emblem and colors from each flag, we could do it below the red line as Fang seems to like, and not have this huge, long graphic. Maybe we can then link the full banner pics and, if we get enough information that a given colony's article wouldn't be a stub, we can display it there. Does all that make sense? --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I like it with banners to right, with titling, albeit a little redundant. Not sure how to deal with the "white space" of many areas, but we're really not going to get them filled until we get more data, so that is that. I feel it's informative enough as it stands, but I'll leave the formatting arguments alone. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:52, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

==Which flag is which?==
A close viewing of [[Colonial Day]] indicates that the flag currently labeled as [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]] belongs to Safiya Sanne's seat - either Picon or Leonis; and that the black flag belongs to Robin Wenutu's seat (Canceron), and that VIrgon's flag is a white field with a green inner stripe and yellow outer stripe. I'm curious as to how QuintusCinna came to his conclusion that the delegates aren't seated at their apprporiate flags, since I don't know any other evidence linking particular flags to colonies. I guess Scorpion is pretty obvious, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:34, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Don't trust the banners lining up with those they represent in [[Colonial Day]]. The reason I say this is that [[Tom Zarek]] is in one area of the room and his very obvious banner for Sagitarron is completely in another area. This is the same for Virgon's banner and their representative. There are 3 different questions I carry thanks to the shows I have watched. In the mini-series we see the banners are in this order from left to right: [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Aerelon|Aerelon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], Scorpion, Aquaria(?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]], Libra (?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]], [[Canceron]] (?), [[Leonis]]. Is this in the order that the colonies signed the unification treaty or is the order for the flags random or is it in the order they were nuked? Though I am sure the producers, directors, and such just put them up in random order, it is now a sense of fact for the show. If we were to believe they were placed up there, the banners must be up there in some order that is according to military protocol for flag bearing. In Colonial Day I add 2 more questions. We see that the banners are behind the delegates in a different order than in the mini-series. This means they were either a) put up randomly or b) have a separate purpose than those shown at the end of the mini-series (nuked, treaty order, or other). Then we see that the delegates are put in a different order than the banners behind them. The Gemenon delegate is clearly seen toward the middle and the Gemenon flag is clearly in a different area. The same questions come up for the delegates: are they randomly placed or is there reason. It's not alphabetical, and placements of delegates and banners in every society is always in some sort of traditional order. I hope that the Battlestar Galactica producers, writers, and such will be able to answer this though I suspect they won't because they have REAL lives.

As for the Picon flag, the constellation looks quite similar to the picon banner and the same goes for Tauron's with Taurus. I have no doubt with those. The Libra's icon can be seen in this picture http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/HorseAstrology/AstrologySymbol.gif 2 clockwise from Sagittarius.
--[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 1:12, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

==New Icons==
What do you think? We might consider making them smaller and removing the image frame and caption, but I'd also be happy leaving them as they are. It's nice to have a place to note that some of the symbols are only tentatively identified with the colonies in question. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:42, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:It looks fine. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 09:11, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I like 'em. I'd say smaller, though. Of course... I have my thumb settings to 300px so that screen shots are large enough to be intelligible, so smaller to me would be about 150px or 100px. I also like alternating for balance, but that's just me. I alternate right a left in other articles, too. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:21, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

I have a set of colonial glyphs that were lifted from a copy of the voting ballots used in Lay Down Your Burdens Pt1. I can upload both the cap of the ballot and the vector graphics file of the glyphs. I've already released the glyphs for public use, so I have no problem with their being used here. The ballot image I have has Baltar's name blurred out, as that was a spoiler at the time the image was released. The image orginally came from the Reproduction Props Forum, where a member got hold of one of the actual props used in the episode. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 14:54, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks for the offer. It would be nice to get a look at them. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:16, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
::Okay, I've uploaded the four jpgs I have of the voting ballot. They still reside on my server at the moment. If you decide to include them in the wiki, I'll upload them to the database. 
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotSm.jpg Small Image of Ballot Front]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotFront.jpg Large Image of Ballot Front]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotBack.jpg Large Image of Ballot Back]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotTop.jpg Very Large Image of Ballot Top]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/ColonialGlyphs.gif My version of the colonial glyphs (gif)]
:: If you want to play with the Photoshop custom shapes file, it's [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/LeesBSGshapes.csh.zip here (zip)]. [[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 00:25, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

==Residence vs. Tribe==

I think there's a difference between "where a character currently makes their residence" and "what colony they are from". I think "what colony they are from" means "what ''tribe''" they are. For example, Dualla could have been away from Sagittaron for years and lived on another Colony, but she's still from the Sagittaron tribe. In "Bastille Day", she describes herself as "a Sagittaron", not "someone ''from'' Sagittaron".

Anyway, I also think that non-canonical information from SkyOne website should not be used in assuming Stabuck may be from Picon, not Caprica. We should wait until this is said on either the Scifi.com official site, or on screen.
--Ricimer, 16 Sept, 2005

:Actually, Dee did say "I'm from Sagittaron". [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:56, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

::I agree with the original sentiment. Under the [[The_Twelve_Colonies_%28RDM%29#Natives_2|Caprica Natives]] section, it lists Gaius Baltar, but then clearly states "(Born on Sagittaron)." If that is the case, then he is a native of ... drumroll please ... '''Sagittaron''', not Caprica. He may have resided there, but he was a Sagitton.

::I think this should be changed, but didn't want to just change it without some discussion. Unless there is a good reason given, though, I'm going to make the change. /[[User:LucentPhoenix|LucentPhoenix]] 08:26, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::The source for Baltar's saggitaron origin was an old SkyOne biography which we no longer consider to be a credible source. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:58, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::::Ah.... alright, then. If it's no longer considered credible, we should probably remove the reference from the Caprica Native page, then, shouldn't we? --[[User:LucentPhoenix|LucentPhoenix]] 15:37, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::::By all means. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:31, 21 November 2006 (CST)

==Outposts==

Ricimer wrote: ''The Colonials actually expanded their sphere of influence over time beyond the original Twelve Colonies to include several outposts, bases, and mining colonies (such as [[Troy]]) in other systems ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html| RDM, January 30, 2005]), though they were apparently minor extensions of the original Twelve Colonies rather than independently functioning worlds in their own right, and when the Cylons overwhelmed the Twelve Colonies themselves no mention is even explicity made about these minor worlds, seeming to take it as a given that the destruction of the Twelve Colonies would equal the destruction of humanity, and that these outposts were not significant enough to pose any challenge to the Cylon fleet.''

RDM's actual comments are:

:Q: "Did the colonies have outposts, bases, or trade partners outside of the 12 colonies. Did they even explore other systems. The colonies could have had observatories, listening posts, or even scientific research teams exploring other planets beyond the colonial system(s). They could encounter any of these which could lead to supplies, raw materials, food, fuel etc. "

:RDM: I think that's probably true, but part of our premise is that the fleet has Jumped far out into unexplored space in an effort to elude the Cylons, so we won't be encountered any other outposts or colonies.

I think that's a very weak confirmation, and if we're going to include it here, it should reflect the vagueness of RDM's actual comment. I have replaced it with the following:

:Ronald D. Moore has suggested that the Colonies probably maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems, but it is unlikely that ''Galactica'' will encounter them in the course of the series. ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016|RDM, January 30, 2005])

--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:35, 15 December 2005 (EST)

==Scorpion vs. Scorpia==

At present, we have a name card from "[[Colonial Day]]" and the name of the [[Scorpia Traveler]] in favor of "Scorpia", and the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] in favor of "Scorpion". Ricimer, if you want to make a case for "Scorpion" over "Scorpia", you ''must'' cite an episode quote, and I will not produce it for you. Your uncited revisions are anathema to our goal of accuracy. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:34, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:I am sorry, I was in a hurry to get out and didn't have time to wip out my copy of the series companion. On p.86 of "Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion", by David Bassom, there is an "''early'' concept sketch of the flags of the Twele Colonies"; On this, it lists the names "Scorpia", but also "Libran", and "Aquarion". "[[Colonial Day]]" established that these two Colonies are in fact named "Libra" and "Aquaria", in dialog, etc. This evidence has led me to believe that "Scorpia" was amongst some early ideas for Colony names that were thrown around in the early stages of production, but which were later changed; however, the art and props department wasn't notified of the switch, or made a mistake, etc. I'm also inclined to this line of thinking because the props in this scene feature several now-infamous goofs, such as the switcheroo between Canceron, Picon, Leonis, etc., etc. As for the evidence from "Scorpia Traveler", there's also a "Gemini" ship, as well as mispelling etc. which have led me to the belief that certain ship names are just meant for asthetic value and do not necessarily reflect the actual name of their home Colony. In "Home, Part II" it was established that the Colonies used to have "ancient names" which align more closely to the signs of the Zodiac, but which over the millenia have drifted away into their present form. Perhaps some ship captains just felt like naming their vessels after the more ancient names. I don't know. But the main points remain: A) Ship names aren't very reliable as an information source, B) this scene had many goofs in it, C) the official companion shows that this was an early name thrown around, but later abandoned, and several of these early names have been disproven by this point. Therefore, I think "Scorpion Fleet Shipyards", the first ''prominent'' mention of Scorpion/Scorpia, taken with the above evidence, proves that the true name of the Colony is "Scorpion". What's everyone else's consensus? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:24, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::I'm with Ricimer on this one.--Zareck Rocks 15:04, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::I agree with Ricimer, as Cain's mention of the "scorpion fleet shipyards" is the only canonical reference to place when it comes to the scorpio-related colony. It has also been shown, as Ricimer mentions above, that the ship names seem to be variations of the colony names i.e. [[Gemenon Traveller]] and the [[Gemini]]. So we can't necessarily glean the name of the scorpio-related colony from the [[Scorpia Traveller]], for there may also be a Scorpion Traveller.
::However, unless someone can verify this with subtitles, Cain could be saying Scorpi''an'' fleet shipyards, rather than Scorpi''on'', thereby inferring that the colony name is Scorpia (I dare to speculate that the Caprica would have it's own Caprican fleet shipyards(if it did indeed have shipyards)). I don't have the DVDs, as they're not yet available in Canada, but someone should really check this, it could answer this question --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 16:20, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::I've grepped the TwizTV logs, and the Scorpia/Scorpion colony has never been referred to apart from the instances we've already listed. So, here's what that means:
:::#We have a mention of the "Scorpia Traveler", which matches the "Gemenon Traveler". "Freighter Gemini" is a TOS reference.
:::#We have a comment that might be the "Scorpion" shipyards, or the "Scorpian" shipyards.
:::#We have a clear and readable screenshot of the name of the colony.
:::We should not "correct" the name of the colony to what we think it "should" be, when we have unequivocal evidence staring us in the face. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:09, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::I'm sorry, but it doesn't really seem like the above evidence is "unequivocal". Thankfully, I think "Resurrection Ship" will make further mention of ''Pegasus' '' flight from the shipyards, and we will probably hear the name again. Best to wait until then. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:05, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::Let me clarify. We have at least seen "Scorpia" spelled out. We have never even ''heard'' "Scorpion", except in a context that might easily have been "Scorpian". In my opinion, the two options here are "Scorpia" or "We don't know". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:45, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::Wait a minute, someone out there has got to have the DVD set of the second season, we should be able to determine the definitive name of the scorpio colony from that. Although, I suppose, Peter, that you're suggesting we leave it at Scorpia until someone can check the subtitles. That sounds fine with me. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 22:56, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::How will that tell us definitively? It was only mentioned in "Pegasus", in the ambiguous dialogue mentioned above. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:00, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::Like I said, we stand a good chance of hearing it again in the very next two episodes, so I suggest we leave things as they are, and reach a final decision after "Resurrection Ship, Part II". Although we could get subtitles from the DVD, subtitles can be notoriously innaccurate when it comes to the finer points of spelling, i.e. Scorpion vs. Scorpian. Perhaps we could rewatch Pegasus, and check the inflection that Michelle Forbes uses; I ''think'' she clearly said "-ion" (as opposed to "-ian"). I'll check again; however, even hearing the dialog personally, I doubt this will give a DEFINATIVE answer in ANY form as the actress could have been just slurring it. I don't know. Well, I'll check for the sake of checking. Again, I think we should "wait and see" on this one. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:11, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::::I just watched the episode and the subtitles (however inaccurate) do say "Scorpion." It does sound like Forbes says more of an -ion than -ian. Just my two cents. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:30, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::::Thank you Talos. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:04, 26 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::::Scorpion would be pronounced with the full vowel "{{IPA|piɑn}}, while "Scorpian" would use a reduced vowel, {{IPA|piən}} or {{IPA|piɨn}}. The latter is what I hear, although Ricimer is right that it could just be "slurring". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:09, 26 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::::::I've isolated Michelle Forbes's pronunciation of "Scorpi_n" and uploaded it [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpian.wav here]. Unfortunately, the last syllable is basically whispered and cannot be analyzed for vowel formants. It does sound very reduced to me, however. This is not usually the case for Picon, Gemenon, etc. which are almost always realized with full vowels.
:::::::::::Note, by the way, that the ''animal'' spelled "Scorpion" would be pronounced the same as the adjective "Scorpian", while a colony called Scorpion would be pronounced "Skor-pee-on". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:05, 28 December 2005 (EST)

Final call for objections before I move the relevant articles. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:23, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

== Location ==

I didn't want to get into a revert war, so... How, exactly, are the colonies' positions indicated in the Tomb of Athena? I just watched that ep last night and I don't remember any arrows or name tags... If the theory is that the colonies are inside the constellation that shares their name, then I think I'll have to disagree. Not possible. The zodiac constellations are spread about in our sky in a circle, meaning they're not very near each other at all (so if "the Colonies" can be considered some single area of space that's small enough to go from one end to another inside months they need to be closer than a large ring of space encircling Earth) and all the stars in a constellation aren't even necessarily near each other. --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:42, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:I don't think the positions of the Twelve Colonies are indicated at all by the tomb of Athena. It's just a map to Earth (Earth being the only spot where those constellations would appear in that configuration). It is interesting that would mean that there isn't a direct correlation between the constellations and the colonies that they are named after... (other than as a rememberance of where they came from, kind of). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:50, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:The fact of the matter is that the Tomb of Athena holographic map to Earth shows constellations made of the symbols of the Twelve Tribees/Colonies; these constellations are '''entirely arbitrary'''; that is, they were designated purely because they resemble the symbols of the Colonies; each planet of the 12 is in ''no way'' in each constellation. Besides, that would mean they'd often end up in separate galaxies. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:23, 4 January 2006 (EST)

::Well, no, not separate galaxies, but further apart from each other than each is from earth. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:34, 4 January 2006 (EST)

::: My point exactly, Peter. Well said. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:05, 5 January 2006 (EST)

Can we take the part about all the colonies orbiting the same star out of the article? I think it's pretty clear that they're all separate systems, unless someone has different information. --[[User:Bahamut|Bahamut]] 02:42, 12 March 2006 (EST)

:Why do you think that's clear? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:59, 12 March 2006 (CST)

::Mostly because of the use of FTL technology, but also because of the improbability of a star having twelve planets that can support human life. It's discussed elsewhere in the Wiki that it's likely they're all separate systems. Maybe instead of taking it out altogether we should add a caveat about how it's disputed or at least link to the other discussion? --[[User:Bahamut|Bahamut]] 18:36, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Upon re-watching the Miniseries (IMHO anyway) all references are given as hours from caprica, but when the war alert first goes off and Cmdr Adama asks to "scan the system" (circa 48mins in) the report is given that "Now, looks like the main fight is shaping up over here near Virgon's orbit" and a few lines latter "If we can keep Virgon between us and the battle". Which to me means that Virgon, Caprica and Ragnar (a gas giant) are all in the same solar system. thoughts anyone? [[User:Pickle UK|Pickle UK]] 00:45, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:I think this is a settled issue. From Moore's blog, [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000016 30 January 2005]:
::Does it make sense that there would be a star system with 12 inhabitable planets? Not really, but that was in the original and at some point I decided to run with that as another nod to the old show.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:56, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::An important note on this topic is that among young stars, they tend to be grouped in what is known as "stellar associations" which are several stars that are gravitational bound together by virtue of them all being born at the same time in the same stellar nursery and all being within a light year of each other; hence you could call them a system. Now, over time as they get more to our Sun's age, they will disapate over a great distance and no longer be associated, but this is over 100s of millions to billions of years. Generally it is considered unlikely that such young stars bear planets that possess life but does not rule out the idea that they have planets... earth-like planets. Therefore, a stellar association, possessing 12 or more stars....all within a light year of each other...--[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 01:40, 10 April 2006 (PST)

::::Honestly, this is the sort of speculation that impedes my enjoyment of the show. It doesn't matter, and I don't care. Feel free to speculate as you will, but I think the whole debate is distracting and unworthy of more than a footnote. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:37, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

== More on flags ==

I found this a while ago. A user on Sci-Fi.com's messageboard going by "bescincimevsim" has made some incredible renderings of all twelve colonial flags that, in my oppinion look very good and accurate to what has been seen on the show. It might be worth checking out the [http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=BattlestarGalactica&Number=1310569&Searchpage=2&Main=1310569&Words=bescincimevsim&topic=&Search=true#Post1310569 topic here]. I ''think'' they might be avalible for free use, but then again the guy doesn't seem to be available for contact anymore a he posted only one topic, the one about the flags, then stopped posting altogether in mid October. Either way, I think it should be worth checking out. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 18:05, 25 January 2006 (EST)

:We should not use these. I think they're just fanart. There is a page in the official companion of *early* flag designs (the names are wrong in some cases, etc. so this page of the book is an early draft and shouldn't be used as fact). However, this guy also confuses the symbols of Tauron and Leonis. I mean it's just a guy posting on a messageboard. The Citation Crusade wouldn't stand for it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:22, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::The assignment of colony and flag is obviously non-canon, but the graphics themselves are far superior to the ones we're using. We should ask him to license them to us under the CCL. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:56, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::Alternately, if he can be contacted, ask him to create corrected ones based on a CCL.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 14:40, 2 February 2006 (EST)
::Well, I've done some tweaking to our icons making them look a little crisper and sort-of rationalised the originals by QuintusCinna and the ones seen on the Sci-Fi BBS by bescincimevsim. I'll upload them soon and if you don't like them then I guess you can just revert them later. Just thought I'd help out, is all. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 00:12, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::I think they're an improvement. Thank you, Kahran. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:57, 17 March 2006 (CST)

==Colonial Flags==
The Colonial Flags, as listed on this page, have been matched to their colonies based solely on on-screen evidence. Given their dubious veracity on other matters, I am not prepared to take the Official Magazine's word for it over what we've actually seen — at least not without a discussion. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:26, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:Okay, then you should know that the flags also match what is written in the Battlestar Galactica The Official Companion. It has a page for Colonial Day that lists the flasg for each colony and it's the smae as the Magazine flag listings, so that's two sources that support my listings as opposed the shoddy on-screen evidence from the episodes. --Ltcrashdown 22:30, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::I've examined the footage of Colonial Day and QuintusCinna's arguments, and concluded that they aren't very strong. I'm going to revert this back to your version. Do you have a cite for the Official Companion as well? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:35, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::Here's the info: Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion by David Bassom, page 86, Published by Titan Books, London, August 2005
:::By the way, what was QuintusCinna's source?--Ltcrashdown 22:39, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::::For the colonies at issue here, it was mostly conjecture on his part. I remembered his argument having more basis than it actually did. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:26, 8 February 2006 (EST)

== We are Gemenese if you Please! ==

I think the way this works (and once we nail it down, we should put it on S&C, probably) is that someone ''from'' Gemenon is a Gemenon, but the adjective for describing them is Gemenese. So, like, a nice Gemenese Rug or something. This is a throwback to the language of Gemenese in TOS, I think. Now... Is someone from Caprica Caprican and "a Caprica" or does that one match the adjective (like I'm from Texas, thus I am Texan and "a Texan" if that helps)? Whatcha think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:07, 19 February 2006 (EST)

== Aerilon? ==

Unless someone cites a source on this spelling correction, I think this needs to be reverted. Anyone? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) 19:46, 20 March 2006 (CST)
:Seems like other people are using it: http://s9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=658 the same way. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:52, 20 March 2006 (CST)
::It is also on http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/ on the Celestra bio. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:55, 20 March 2006 (CST)

::: Well, the forum link is inconclusive, as the poster using that spelling questions it himself and is not, quite frankly, a reliable source. The SciFi.com link is more helpful, but still doesn't help much. They have two different spellings for a couple of the Colonies still around their site, so we can't really trust them on this. Does anyone have a copy of the various writings spawned from the show? If the companions and magazines and scifi.com all agreed, even though none of those are on our big list of accepted sources, I'd consider that a pretty good indication that we'd been misspelling it this whole time. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) 20:30, 20 March 2006 (CST)

==Spelling==
This topic keeps coming up, and our spelling conventions do not seem to match the ones generally used throughout fandom, so I want to have a definitive location for sources on spelling used here. Our emphasis, as always, is on citation and accuracy.

The names of six of the colonies can be seen fully spelled out in the episode "Colonial Day". There should be no room for debate on these.
<gallery>
Image:sp-canceron.jpg|Canceron
Image:sp-caprica.jpg|Caprica
Image:sp-gemenon.jpg|Gemenon
Image:sp-leonis.jpg|Leonis
Image:sp-sagittaron.jpg|Sagittaron
Image:sp-virgon.jpg|Virgon
</gallery>

We can also see the first three letters of "Picon": 
[[Image:sp-picon.jpg|sp-picon.jpg]] 
There's no serious controversy here, as no other spelling has been proposed for that colony.

Although not visible in the episode, the spelling of Scorpia can be clearly seen in a high-resolution [http://galactica.emedian.net/episode/1.11/imagepages/image6.html publicity still]: 
[[Image:sp-scorpia.jpg|150px]] 
This is complicated by [[Helena Cain]]'s reference to the "Scorpian Fleet Shipyards" in the episode "[[Pegasus (episode)]]". [[Talk:The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Scorpion vs. Scorpia|Extensive discussion]] on battlestar wiki concluded that the visual evidence should be deferred to, and also suggested that she may have been using "Scorpian" as an adjectival form of the colony's name. This was supported by Michelle Forbes's use of a reduced vowel in the final syllable, while other colony names used throughout the series have used the fully realized vowel /ɑ/.

The names "Aquaria" and "Tauron" were given in "[[Colonial Day]]" and "[[Pegasus (episode)]]", respectively. There is no serious debate on their spelling.

Very little evidence is available regarding the colony corresponding to Libra. Neither it nor its citizens have ever been mentioned in the miniseries or 33 episodes aired to date, nor has RDM mentioned the colony in his blog. SciFi.com's website refers to the [[Space Park]] as being of "Libran" registry, but it is unclear whether this is meant to be the nominal or adjectival form of the colony's name (see below).

The name of the colony corresponding to Aries was named as {{IPA|'ɛɹ.lɑn}} in "[[Bastille Day]]". Two spellings have been proposed. It is worth noting that the second vowel, which is the one at issue, is not actually pronounced by actress Mary McDonnell.

'''AERILON''' 
'''Official Use'''

The SciFi.com website refers to the [[Celestra]] as being of "Aerilon" registry. This is apparently the nominal form, despite the anomalous use of the adjectival "Caprica" on the "Colonial One" entry on the same webpage. (The adjectival forms of Scorpia (Scorpian, established in "[[Pegasus (episode)]]") and Tauron (Tauranian, established in "[[Resistance]]") are not used.)

RDM uses this spelling in a [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000016 blog entry] dated 30 January, 2005.

'''Fan Use'''
*Google returns approximately [http://www.google.com/search?q=aerilon 400 matches] for this spelling.
*This spelling is used by transcript website SadGeezer.com.

'''AERELON''' 
'''Fan Use'''
*Google returns approximately [http://www.google.com/search?q=aerelon 300 matches] for this spelling.
*[http://tviv.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(2003)/The_Twelve_Colonies TV IV]
--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:34, 23 March 2006 (CST)

== Should I Add This Or Not? ==

On Wikipedia there is a lot more information on the Twelve Colonies, including founders and names of capital cities. Should I add this information to the corresponding colony section on this page or is this information that doesn't belong on this wiki? --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 11:04, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:We're pretty strict about [[BW:CITE|citations]] around here. Unless we can find official sources to back up that info, it doesn't belong here. I'm pretty sure that it hasn't been officially established names for all Twelve Lords of Kobol (if there are exactly twelve, as RDM was a bit vague on this), and I've got no idea where they are getting the capitol names from. If there is an official source, we'd be good, but it feels like this may be derived from fan fiction (which would have NO place on this article) or at best from novelizations/alternate continuity (which could at least be argued, but is still suspect). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:17, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::Understood. I just reviewed the article and it said that the names were non-canonical. In that case, Wikipedia's information has NO place in this article. If the characters start listing off this information in the next seasons (which I SERIOUSLY doubt they will at this point), I can put it in. However, I want to note that I found confirmation for Aerelon's capital (including a photo) and the colony description on Google. You have to type "Aerelon" (make sure it's spelled EXACTLY like that) and then scroll down the top ten results page. The title is simply "Aerelon" and is located two results under the listing for our own wiki. The description starts with "Capital: Maegera"--[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 19:24, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:::That's a fan site. Please read over the [[BW:CITE|Citation Jihad]] for a list of official sources. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:00, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Thank you no end, Homeworld616, for pointing out this grievous error on Wikipedia. *One person* posted their own fanfic into there: they even left a warning label: "These following sections contain equal parts fanon and canon.".....er, it is impossible to be both "fanon" and "canon" at the same time. ----->'''I have personally deleted all of this fanfic from Wikipedia, and warned the user that posted it'''. Sorry, but they get all kinds on wikipedia. Thanks for asking us and bringing it to our attention 616--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:45, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:No problem, Merovingian. It's my pleasure to help make Wikipedia and its associated sites better for all. I can't believe someone actually tried to pass their fanfic off as fact. Oh well, so long as it has been deleted. But we need to watch for other users posting crap around here. Wikipedia's Twelve Colonies may just be the beginning. To quote Shakespeare from ''The Tempest,'' "what is past is prologue." --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 01:12, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Notes on Culture ==

All right, has anyone noticed that in the Colonies, virtually everything that would be a rectangle here on Earth (pictureframe, sheet of paper, etc.) is a ''hexagon''? To cite some examples, in the [[Miniseries]] Roslin is handed a slip of paper describing the Cylon attack on a networked Battlestar. That slip is a hexagon. Adama's picture frame of him, Zak and Lee is also a hexagon. Even the computers are hexagons. Now, a hexagon has 6 sides (half of 12, which is seemingly a symbolic number in the series), and is a practical shape for use (12-gons would be stupid for paper) so does anyone think that the hexagon is some kind of symbolic shape for the Colonials?

Also, in the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]], Starbuck is walking past display cases full of ancient pottery. Culture is transmitted in the form of art and artifacts, so while this may be trivial I feel like it is worth noting.

In addition to this, notice how Elosha's priestess garment is pretty eccentric, while Brother Cavil's uniform is a plain black cassock with some purple decorations. A difference of garb choice for priestesses and priests, perhaps?

Furthermore, in the [[Miniseries]], notice those Caprican mothers carting their babies around the city in those oversized plastic baby carriages that look like they provide too much protection for the tots. Perhaps a link to the Scripture statement saying that life is precious and should be protected? I can't think of any other way for the carriage manufacturer to be willing to put extra money into obtaining more plastic resources for the increased carriage size and safety. No wait, lawsuits... But that still wouldn't explain the supersized babymobiles and extra costs and materials needed for manufacturing.

Cereals! In [[Sacrifice]] (I think, I'm not sure), Roslin tells an aggressive Billy Keikaya, "Looks like someone ate their Wheaties today." Okay, so...General Mills was actually a ''Colonial'' corporation and they imported it to Earth while we weren't looking. This might just imply that the Colonials also ate Cascadian Farm, Frescarini, Lucky Charms, Chex Mix, Cheerios, Hamburger Helper...the list goes on. Either that or I'm just making a big deal over some trivial prodcut placement.

Finally, in TOS, most of the buildings in Caprica (with exception of Long Beach City Hall where the episode was filmed), were pyramids. In the RDM series, there aren't as many pyramids, but there are a couple in Caprica City (let me get the image). Since there is circumstantial evidence that life began on Earth, does anyone think these pyramids could be a link with the Egyptians, who already had a thriving civilization and the Giza pyramids built by the time Greece (and perhaps the Kobol-sect) became an ancient powerhouse?

Taking all of this into consideration, should I initiate a "Culture" section for the Twelve Colonies (RDM)? --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:36, 3 July 2006 (CDT)
:According the the episode transcript...
:'''[[Laura Roslin]]''': Someone took their vitamins this morning. 
:'''[[Billy Keikeya]]''': Yeah, I don't know what got into me. 
:--''[[Sacrifice]]''
:There's an "[[Arts and Literature of the Twelve Colonies|arts and lit article]]" under construction for the 12 Colonies seriesthat might be a home for some of the architecture, pottery, etc. notes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:08, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks, Steelviper. I'll look into that. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 15:18, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

[[Image:Mini-Caprica City.jpg]]
Here's the image. Look to the FAR right hand side and note the two pyramid office buildings, one with steep lateral faces and the other looking kind of like a glass reproduction of the Giza pyramids. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:41, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

Arts and Lit is where we're working on that. Note, that it's really just an in-joke from the Miniseries: they had to "cut corners" on the production due to budget restraints, so it started out as a joke that they were "cutting corners" on everything. The problem was, as this series progressed this became a logistical nightmare, as literally hours of work had to be spent into doing this, i.e. stacks of books in Cain's quarters. As for the image....I'm sorry but it's too vague to actually make out if it's anything. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:24, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

== Links ==

Folks, I've noticed there's some ambiguity going on with the Wiki reference links, and I think we should probably straighten them out. In short, do we want to link to the astrological sign, or the constellations? I note this because I just cleaned up a few of the links before realizing this should be discussed, as (for example), someone had [[Wikipedia:Capricorn|Capricorn]] point to the WP page there, which is a disambig page, instead of [[Wikipedia:Capricorn (astrology)|Capricorn (astrology)]] or [[Wikipedia:Capricornus|Capricorn'''us''']] (the constellation; note the spelling, as there's at least one more constellation that swings this way - [[Wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpius]]). Just a thought or two to muddy the waters further. ^_^--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 22:00, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:I'd prefer to link to the constellations. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:08, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:: Done and done, then.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:44, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Botanical Cruiser

2006-12-20T02:53:23Z

TaKometer: update on cruiser

{{Ship Data
| image= Bsg-botanical-cruiser-01.jpg
| race= Colonial
| type= Civilian
| ftl= Some models
| crew=
| role= Vacation ship, greenhouse
}}
'''Botanical Cruisers''' are ships with domes that may serve as space-borne vacation ships, or are used as greenhouses for specialty food or plant-matter production.

At least two Botanical Cruisers escape the initial [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack on the Colonies]].

New President [[Laura Roslin]] visits this ship while gathering a caravan from surviving civilian ships surrounding the colony of [[Twelve Colonies#Caprica|Caprica]]. A young girl named [[Cami]] and her grandmother are on this Botanical Cruiser with many other survivors.

Unfortunately, the particular ship that Roslin visits lacks an [[FTL]] drive, and the light-speed-enabled part of President Roslin's caravan of refugee ships are forced to leave that Botanical Cruiser and many other [[sublight]] ships behind when [[Cylon Raider]]s discover the fleet of ships. This ship and others without FTL drives are presumed destroyed by the Cylons ([[Miniseries]]).

[[Image:BotanicalInFleet.jpg|right|thumb|An [[FTL]]-capable Botanical Cruiser in the Fleet.]]
At least one other Cruiser exists in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]. A FTL-capable Cruiser is successfully escorted to the [[algae planet]] through a dangerous star cluster ([[The Passage]]), although it appears the biota did not fare so well in the presence of so much ionizing radiation.

[[Image:3x11 Fleet above Algae planet.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Botanical cruiser with significantly less foliage]]

== Notes ==

*The Botanical Cruiser was an homage to the [[Agro Ship|Agro Ships]] from the original ''[[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)]]'', which themselves were re-used models from the botanical spacecraft from the movie ''[[IMDB:Silent Running|Silent Running]]'', a Universal/MCA movie that special effects guru [[John Dykstra]] worked on a few years prior to the Original Series.
*The episode, "[[The Passage]]," confirms that another Botanical Cruiser exists in the Fleet. Previously, it was believed that the use of the Cruiser in shots of the Fleet was a continuity error.

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Botanical Cruiser/Archive 1

2006-12-10T03:56:31Z

TaKometer:

About the botanical cruiser in the series.
I noticed that ship too, but are we sure it's the same type? I think the domes are smaller and obviously it's FTL capable.
And it appears in so many different shots - also ones that have new activity, like Boomer's return to the fleet when she finds Kobol - that it can't be just stockfootage from the mini-series.
Maybe someone can find some comparative screencaps and if they are different, it should should be made clear that they aren't the same
--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:57, 12 September 2006 (CDT)
:I'm pretty sure it is, and I was gonna bring that up myself, wondering how that ship could be with the fleet but not have FTL capability --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 08:02, 12 September 2006 (CDT)
::Clearly the colonials didn't manufacture just one botanical cruiser; and at least one other botanical cruiser was refitted with FTL drive. I wonder, however, if the plants all died due to radiation exposure ([[The Passage]])[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 21:56, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Hero

2006-12-01T17:54:08Z

TaKometer: /* Questions */

{{cleanup}}

{{Episode Data
| title= Hero
| image= Season 3 - Promo - Hero -Adama Tigh and Novacek.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 8
| guests= [[Carl Lumbly]]
| writer= [[David Eick]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-17
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,421
| prev= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
| next= [[Unfinished Business]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A [[Bulldog|figure]] from [[William Adama|Adama]]'s past returns to haunt him. His return raises questions about why the Cylons launched their initial attack against the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]].''

== Summary ==

=== On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' ===

* ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' detects three [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]]. Much to the surpise of the [[CIC]] crew, two Raiders are pursuing a third Raider, damaged by Cylon gunfire. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] are dispatched. After destroying the pursuing Raiders, they go after the third.
* In CIC, [[Admiral Adama]] orders Kat and Starbuck to escort the Raider to ''Galactica'', after hearing, from the Raider, a familiar human voice and callsign: [[Bulldog]].
* In the hangar bay, Adama and the party are surprised that a human has exited the Raider. A visibly weak Daniel Novacek salutes Adama; Adama returns the salute.
* Over a meal (noodles eaten with chopsticks) Adama asks Novachek how he escaped. He relates a story of plague on the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] and escaping after killing a [[Number Three]] with a blow to the nose delivered through the cell bars.
* Bulldog is debriefed by the [[Laura Roslin|President]] with Adama present, where they tell a (decidedly shaky) story of a mining facility too close to the Armistice Line. When the briefing ends, Roslin immediately questions Adama's story. He replies that it is "his mess" and that he resolve it. After she leaves, Adama kicks over a table in frustration.
* Novachek sees [[Saul Tigh]] in his quarters shortly after Adama talks to him. Tigh informs Novacek that Adama (aboard battlestar ''[[Valkyrie]]'') ordered Novachek shot down to get rid of evidence of their incursion into Cylon space.
*Meanwhile, Adama confesses the mission's actual specifics to his son, [[Lee Adama|Lee]], and his belief that he provoked the Cylon attacks on the Colonies. Aghast at first, Lee Adama tries to console his father, blaming the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Fleet Admiralty]], saying that he was "only one man." Adama responds, "It only takes one."
* [[Kara Thrace]] reviews their Viper's gun film from the fight with the Cylon Raiders and realizes that the Cylons were deliberately missing their target, letting Bulldog get away. She goes to Saul Tigh with this information, who deduces that Bulldog was sent there by the Cylons to kill the admiral.
* Tigh finds Novacek in the process of killing Adama and stops him. Bulldog has flashbacks to being let out of his cell.
* Later, Adama presents his resignation to Roslin. Bemused, she refuses to accept it, and points out that the Admiralty may have been trying to provoke a war, and that he cannot shoulder the entire responsiblity for the holocaust on his shoulders. She then tells him that his penance will be to accept a [[Medal of Distinction]] for his long years of service, and to be a hero, a trait badly needed for the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet's morale]].
* After sending Novacek off to a berthing on another ship with a uniform, Tigh and Adama sit down for a drink in the admiral's quarters to discuss what happened to [[Ellen Tigh]] on [[New Caprica]].

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*In a dream, [[Three]] is trying to avoid marines on ''[[Galactica]]''. The marines corner her against a hatch labelled "End of Line." The marines raise their weapons and Three tells them to shoot.
*As the shots go off, Three wakes up in bed with [[Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]]. She has apparently been having a sexual relationship with Baltar and possibly Six as well.
*In the Cylon control room, Caprica-Six questions Three about her bad dreams. Caprica Six asks if the dreams are about Baltar. Three indicates otherwise, but does not elaborate.
*Three gives a [[Cylon Centurion]] orders to shoot her, and then delete any information regarding the incident. The Centurion obeys and shoots her in the head. In the moments before she is downloaded, she experiences images from her dream mixed in with memories from New Caprica and other more cryptic scenes.
*Three awakes in a [[Cylon rebirthing tank]] where a Three, Five, Six, and Eight help her recover. The downloaded Three tells her counterpart, "There's something beautiful, miraculous between life and death."

== Questions ==
*Were the Admiralty's fears valid, or was the Cylon force that destroyed the Colonies built up just since that mission?
*Did Bulldog know of or see other human prisoners during his three years of captivity?
*How was Bulldog directed to the precise location of the fleet?
*What class of battlestar does ''[[Valkyrie]]'' belong to?
*Why would a "Stealth Ship" in enemy territory break radio silence and use active [[DRADIS]]?
*Was ''[[Valkyrie]]''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s mission the only one the admiralty undertook or were there others?
*Was [[Laura Roslin]] right in speculating that the admiralty might have sent ''[[Valkyrie]]'' in order to provoke a war?
*Just what exactly was the "Unknown" craft that jumped near Stealth-Star, disabled it, and then jumped away? Whose was it? Where did it come from?
*Who were the five white-robed figures [[Three]] saw in her vision before downloading? Are they related to the Original Series's [[Beings of Light]]? Could they represent the mysterious "Final Five" Cylons?
*Were the Cylons on the baseship where Bulldog was held actually sick?
*Does Bulldog have information regarding the other humanoid Cylon models that nothing is known of?
*How did Baltar's status change from torturee in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" to an apparent sexual relationship with [[Caprica Six]] and [[Number Three]]?
* Was Adama's whole command staff transferred from the ''[[Valkyrie]] ''to ''[[Galactica]]'' after the failure of the recon mission?
*Why did Number three go through all the trouble to program the Centurion to erase its memory once it shot her? Was she afraid of being 'boxed' by the other Cylons for reasons of insanity or because it would do some sort of damage on the Centurion once its processed the kill?
*If Adama was truly responsible for the destruction of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], was this why the Cylons assigned numerous [[Cylon agent]]s to ''Galactica'' at the time of the attack ([[Sharon Valerii]] and [[Aaron Doral]])? Is this also the reason why [[Leoben Conoy]] was on [[Ragnar Anchorage|Ragnar]] when ''Galactica'' arrived there?
*If the flashback where [[Bulldog]] kills a copy of [[Number Three]] is true, then does that mean that the virus first shown in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" is even more widespread amongst the Cylons?

== Analysis ==
*Adama and Roslin know each other well enough by now to tell when the other is lying, or is not fooled by a lie, even when others around can't. Roslin has always been the better of the two in this ability, as early as revealing Adama's initial ruse about the location of [[Earth]] ([[Miniseries]]).
*At the end of the episode, [[Saul Tigh]] appears to be attempting to try and deal with his guilt over his wife, but he does not seem to want his job as XO back, at least not any time soon.
*Adama's feelings of guilt over his actions during ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' mission seem to shed new light on the motivation for his speech at ''[[Galactica]]'s'' decomissioning ceremony at the begining of the series. Also, they explain his near-monomania with safeguarding and/or rescuing those under his command or protection.
*The Cylons seem to have been able to detect and destroy The [[Stealth Star]] that had only entered two kilometers into their space. This seems suspicious given the fact that they were unable to detect the [[Blackbird]], presumably a far less sophisticated design. Either the Cylons had more advanced detection equipment on the [[Armistice Line]], or they had advance knowledge of Bulldog's mission.
**It is only speculation that the Blackbird's stealth capabilities were less effective than those of the Stealth Star. The reason that the Blackbird went undetected by the Cylons is that its hull, at Helo's suggestion, was made of carbon composite. There is no way of knowing whether or not this was true of the Stealth Star.
***In addition, the Cylons near the [[Armistice Line]] would have known to look for stealth ships, as they probably suspected that the Colonial fleet would try to gain intel on Cylon military status. After the destruction of the colonies, it is unlikely that the Cylons believed that the Colonials were still in possession of any kind of stealth fighter and would not attempt to detect one.
***The fact that the Cylons expected penetration by stealth ships suggests that they may have done their share of Armistice Line violation.
****We know that the cylons violated the armistice line (assuming the treaty wasn't one-sided); there were cylon agents buzzing around the colonies at that time. The Colonial intent was to provoke the cylons; sending a stealth ship wouldn't do that. Notice that Bulldog had open comm channels and an active DRADIS during the sequence; this would have made the stealth ship visible to the Cylons. Presumably, they intended to be seen, but at the first sign of trouble, go silent.
**Bulldog was communicating to the Valkyrie before being attacked. The Cylons may have been able to detect this radiation and fire at the source of it.
**It is possible that the [[Stealth Star]] had a transponder beacon which allowed the [[Valkyrie]] to track and target it, whereas the [[Blackbird]] most likely did not have a transponder installed at time of its first flight.
*Bulldog's story is even less believable given the fact that it took Kara Thrace several hours to gut a [[Raider]] and learn how to fly it. Granted, the Raider Kara captured was damaged, but it would still have taken Bulldog some time to adapt the raider for his own use.
**As the episode implies that Bulldog was deliberately released by the Cylons in an effort to direct his anger towards Adama, it is possible that the Cylons allowed Bulldog to gain a working knowledge of the raider.
*Bulldog probably could have stolen a Heavy Raider, which unlike the light versions seems to have a crew compartment and perhaps piloting controls, but then the production crew couldn't have re-used the captured-Raider prop from "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]" on the flight deck set.
*Kara Thrace going to Tigh with her findings is an acknowledgment of their shared semi-pariah status and the connection that was shown in "[[Collaborators]]" for the first time.
*The last two scenes of "Hero" appear to have been edited to ensure that the final scene was with Adama and Tigh. Right after the celebration scene, Adama is seen giving Bulldog a new uniform, but Adama is wearing his everyday uniform. In the final scene with Tigh, Adama is wearing his dress grays from the celebration. It appears at the very least, the two scenes were in reverse order, meaning the episode originally ended with Adama giving Bulldog his new uniform.
*During her non-corporeal limbo between death and download, Three finds herself reliving a mismash of memories from her various lives, including her final moments during "[[Downloaded]]" before her death, her discovery of Hera on New Caprica ("[[Exodus, Part II]]"), and also a memory we do not know her to have experienced: the opera house revealed to Baltar by his internal Six during the final moments of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]".
**This sequence, as well as this episode as a whole, showcases a number of fundamental BSG leitmotivs that have had little to no exposure in their original form since the end of season one/beginning of season two. The sound, as well as the imagery, reminds us that we've seen the opera house before, and the associated musical themes will likely help elucidate the symbolism behind the two visions.
*Three's flashbacks after being shot by the centurion indicate that she is the same individual who was killed on Caprica by [[Caprica-Six]] in "[[Downloaded]]" and who found Hera in "[[Exodus, Part II]]". It is of course possible that some of these recollections are the result of memory-sharing rather than direct experience.
**If she is the same Three that died on Caprica, that leaves the question how it can be that she didn't get the Opera House experience on her first death, even though she was stuck in limbo for thirty-six hours because of the massive casualties at the cafe in [[Downloaded]]. It is plausible that this Three wanted to die because she'd never experienced death before.
***It is also plausible that God is only just now trying to tell her something. The opera house may act as a cue, a signal sent from God that facilitates reflection on one's own destiny at a pivotal point in their existence, when it is no longer acceptable to ignore their role in God's plan out of arrogance or inconvenience (Baltar, "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" ), or because it seems a contradiction of the identity they'd formed by refusing to question their fate (Three, from the final days of the Occupation through "Hero"). In both cases, the opera house is revealed to a soul straddling the line between life and death, both in a physical and spiritual sense, and it is perhaps this balance that can uniquely invoke the presence of God, and guide the chosen instruments towards their intended destiny.
****It is interesting to note the central role Hera plays in both of the visions that bring us to the opera house.
*There's at least [[Stoffa|one other doctor]] of some kind in the fleet, because Cottle instructs Bulldog to report to him.
**This doctor is probably a psychotherapist that specializes in some sort of mental trauma issues. Considering that Bulldog was in captivity for such a long time, and his breakdown while attacking Adama, at the very least, Bulldog will need a counselor to help him work through all of the emotional and mental scars that he's endured. Cottle had already confirmed that Bulldog was generally well cared for, physically, by the Cylons.
**A psychotherapist is still, after a fashion, a medical professional. It is interesting that, after all the fuss about Cottle being the only doctor in the Fleet, suddenly mention is made of this other doctor.
***This medical professional could be a [[Wikipedia:Psychologist|clinical psychologist]], a person who provides mental health care and may possess a Ph.D., but is not a medical doctor capable of physically treating patients or prescribing medication. This description better fits the post-traumatic stress Novacek likely suffered in captivity.
*Based on the Raider's apparently staged attack, the Cylons appear to know the current location of the Fleet.
*It appears that the Admiralty transferred those directly involved with the mission to ''Galactica''. This is supported by Gaeta made a statement during the [[Mini-series|miniseries]] about serving with Adama for three years (prior to the attack), as well as Tigh's comment saying that the mission, "wasn't exactly a boon to [Adama's] career." Adama also mentions that [[Galen Tyrol]] had served under him for five years ([[Litmus]]).

== Notes ==
*Laura Roslin reviews a [[:Image:Dossier.png |dossier]] prepared for her by [[Billy Keikeya|Billy]] on her first day aboard ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. It includes large photos of battlestar ''Galactica'', a photograph of the CIC crew of ''[[Valkyrie]]'', a (mostly illegible) certificate bearing [[Saul Tigh]]'s name, and a cursory biography of William Adama. This biographical information as been intergrated into [[William Adama]] article. Also, analysis of Colonial dates used in the dossier can be found in the [[Timeline %28RDM%29#Analysis of Colonial Dates |Timeline (RDM)]] article.

*In Adama's flashback, the admirals are wearing their decorations on their day uniforms. This contrasts with most Colonial Fleet officers shown thus far, who only wear their decorations on their dress uniform sash.

*Both [[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Sharon Agathon]] appear in this episode, but neither has any lines.

*In Number Three's dream, the door at which she is shot by the marines is labeled "End of Line". As well as being a metaphor for death, this is a statement repeated often by the Cylon [[Hybrid]].

*This episode shares some plot elements with the ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: The Next Generation|Star Trek: The Next Generation]]'' episode, "[[MemoryAlpha:The Defector|The Defector]]," written by Moore. Notably, it begins with a dramatic chase delivering a dubious ally into friendly hands that is later shown to be staged. Additionally, both episodes feature plots revolving around a contested border.

* For the episode, [[Bear McCreary]] created a musical theme for Novacek, called "Novacek's Theme", which was "very much inspired by [[w:Alfred Hitchcock|Hitchcock]]'s collaborations with composer [[w:Bernard Herrmann|Bernard Herrmann]]". <ref name="bear_mccreary">{{cite_web|url=http://www.bearmccreary.com/html/blog/blogmain.htm|title="Hero"|date=17 November 2006|accessdate=25 November 2006|last=McCreary|first=Bear|format=blog|language=English}}</ref>

*Admiral William Adama names Major Lee Adama to succeed him as commander of ''Galactica'' in his [[:Image:3x8-Hero-ResignationLetter.jpg | resignation letter]].

*The white figures briefly glimpsed by Number Three in her vision of the Opera House look very similar to the "[[Beings of Light]]" from the Original Series, particularly as they appeared in [[War of the Gods, Part II]]. They are seen in both this and that episode as figures in white hoods and robes with whited-out faces and black eyes.

*Galactica is in possession of another [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Speaking to another Number Three after downloading:''
:'''Number Three''': There's something beautiful, miraculous between life and death.

*''Bulldog calls on Saul Tigh at Saul's quarters:
:'''Tigh''': So ... drink?
:'''Bulldog''': You have no idea!
:'''Tigh''' (scowling, unseen): Yes, I do.

== Official Statements ==
*A video blog gives an insight to this episode during filming. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=videoBlog&vid=34824|title=Introducing Bulldog|date=2006-10-11|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=VID|language=}}</ref>
*[[Bear McCreary]] discusses writing "Noavcek's Theme" on his web blog:
*: In general, I only write thematic material for characters who matter in the grand scheme of the series, in hopes that the character will return at a later point in the story. In rare cases I make an exception in order to give a guest star a particularly resonant musical voice. For example, [[Bill Duke]]'s [[Phelan]] from [[Season 2 (2005-06)|season two]]'s [[Black Market]] required his own theme, since all the events of the episode led up to his eventual stand-off with [[Lee Adama|Lee]].
*:
*:Hero was obviously another such case. Novacek's mysterious past drives nearly every scene in the entire show, and it was clear he required his own theme as well.<ref name="bear_mccreary"/>

== Guest Stars ==
* [[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
*[[Carl Lumbly]] as Lt. [[Daniel Novacek]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[imdb:nm0447921|Barry Kennedy]] as Admiral [[Corman]]
* [[imdb:nm0461101|Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]] (credited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Stealthstar

2006-12-01T17:53:06Z

TaKometer: I like the language, we should keep presumably in, especially since the colonials (in the know) themselves presume it to be cylon in retrospect.

{{Ship Data
| image= 3x8-Stealth-Star-7746VA.jpg
| title= Stealth Star (7746VA)
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl=
| crew= 1 pilot
| role= Stealth infiltrator
| weapons=
| status= Destroyed
| img= Y
}}

'''Stealth Star''' 7746VA was a designation used by a Colonial stealth craft.

Lieutenant [[Daniel Novacek|Daniel "Bulldog" Novacek]] from [[battlestar (RDM)|battlestar]] ''[[Valkyrie]]'' piloted a stealth recon craft, designated ''Stealth Star'', across the [[Armistice Line]] in order to determine whether or not the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] were performing a military buildup ([[Hero]]).

During the mission, the Stealth Star had open comm channels and was actively monitoring DRADIS, perhaps in an attempt to lure the Cylons with the intent of going silent at the first sign of trouble. Its position was clearly visible to Valkyrie's DRADIS. However, the Stealth Star was interdicted by a craft of unknown designation (presumably Cylon) which quickly jumped in and out. This resulted in severe damage before its stealth functions were fully utilized.

==Notes==
* The Stealth Star utilized the [[Viper Mark VII|Viper Mk VII]] cockpit for interior scenes.
* On ''Valkyrie'''s [[Dradis]], the ship was designated as "S-Star".

== See also ==
* [[Blackbird]], the first Colonial stealth craft introduced in the series.

== Related Imagery ==
<gallery>
Image:3x8-Stealth-Star-7746VA (2).jpg|Clearly showing the ship number as 7746VA
Image:3x8-Stealth-Star-Cockpit.jpg|Cockpit view
Image:3x8-Stealth-Star-Winged.jpg|Winged and spiraling out of control
</gallery>

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:The Twelve Colonies of Kobol/Archive3

2006-12-01T17:41:45Z

TaKometer:

==Virgon, Caprica, Ragnar==

I think it's fair to make them in the same star system, since it seems very reasonable, and having a definitive verb makes the article more encyclopedic.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 11:41, 1 December 2006 (CST)

==Merge proposal==

This article, and the articles for each of the Twelve Colonies, are all very short, and I don't see any of them expanding substantially in the near future. I think it would make for a nice looking, meaty article if we merged in each of the individual colony articles with this one under first-level headings. How say you all? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:50, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

I know this looks weird and kind of dumb. I'm still fiddling. It's easy to revert if the whole thing ends up being too hideous to bear. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:17, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

[[image:Banner_unknown1.gif|left|75px]][[image:Banner_unknown2.gif|right|75px]]
: I like the idea and whats up now. If we knew more about each colony, it would look nicer, but until then I think this is fine. Now... What to do with these other two banners? Now, the two colonies without banners are Leo and Aquarius, the lion and the water-bearer. Both of these symbols could be a water-bearer, I guess, but I think the black and white one looks like he has whisters, there and that shape at the top looks more ear-like. That would leave the blue and red one to be the water bearer, which I think makes sense enough. Think we could drop those in with a note as to their speculative nature, or best not to? --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:27, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::I'm leaving this one up to [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]], our resident flag-hunter. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:32, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The two colonies without banners is Aquarius and whatever the colonial name is for Libra. I saw in the mini-series they mentioned a colony called "ICON" alongside of "PICON" so I'm a little weirded out. As for Leonis, that flag has been found. I did a picture search in google for the zodiac's constellation and found the flag's symbol looked exactly like what I have designated. I can't remember, but I believe the constellation for Libra looked quite similar to the black one. Since we don't yet know as of yet what is the name for the Libra colony, I have left it blank. [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]]

:At least we know it isn't Ophiuchi or something. Roslin identifies Libra in the Tomb of Athena map room, although she doesn't give its modern name. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:59, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Realizing that it's still being worked on, it looks awful right now. You can't tell which banner goes to which colony, for one thing. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:30, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Personally, I don't really like the combination of all 12 colonies together either since there is no set border and down the road we will have pictures relating to each colony. This will make it slower to download. --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 12:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The problem, in my opinion, is that there's little to do at the main article other than simply list the colonies, and the majority of the individual colonies are stub-like in length. As for images, Caprica is the only planet we've seen thus far and probably the only one we're likely to see (unless we get Scorpion in a flashback in Pegasus or something). One thing we can do, if it becomes necessary, is link to full-length articles from just underneath the first-level headings.

:As for the banners, I agree that they could be confusing but I rather like them right now. Do either of you think it coudl be re-arranged in a better manner (maybe if they didn't alternate sides? But then there'd be a lot more wasted space)? Or is it a lost cause in your opinions? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:20, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::Yeah, you could try putting all the banners on the right. See how it looks. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 14:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::There, that's what they look like right-aligned. Frankly, I think they look better alternating. I don't find it confusing, and the wasted space bugs me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Hate to say it, but I don't like it at all. The banners overlap with the previous colony's "box", there are no clear markers indicating where one section begins and another ends, it just looks bad. (Part of the problem is that we don't have much information about many of the colonies at this point.) --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:07, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::It'd be better if we could insert a line across the entire page, and have the colony name under that line, along with the banner on the right. Then each colony would have a neat, easily readable section. I don't know if Wiki markup is capable of that though. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:10, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::::I still think it's a better option than thirteen articles that are completely insubstantial on their own. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

I added captions to some of the banners, and in the process deleted some of the <nowiki><div></nowiki> markup. Wikipedia recommends against using HTML ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_markup_with_HTML]), and I've been trying to learn from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax Extended image syntax] page. I can't figure out why a new section like <nowiki>==Caprica==</nowiki> doesn't appear on the same level as its banner. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:09, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:Ah ha! The wonders of '''<nowiki> </nowiki>'''! What do you guys think of the formatting now? --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:28, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::My HTML/CSS was not used lightly. That's really the one way to get the banners at the section heading level as I did. Frankly this seems like a more cumbersome version of my right-aligned attempt. I really dislike the caption boxes, too.
::I have a new idea: Rather than use the (rather long) banners, we can grab the icons from each, along with the background colors, and use them. I've created nine high-resolution versions from QuintusCinna's originals, which you can link to below:
::[http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/aerelon.png Aerelon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/canceron.png Canceron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/caprica.png Caprica], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/gemenon.png Gemenon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/picon.png Picon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/sagittaron.png Sagittaron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpion.png Scorpion], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/tauron.png Tauron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/virgon.png Virgon]
::These could be scaled down to almost any size and still look nice. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:35, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Without caption boxes, it's not clear what the banners are. I know it seems self-explanatory to us, but for someone who's never seen them before, it's not. I'll take a look at the icons in a bit. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 17:03, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I find repeating "This is the Banner of X" to be tedious, and the red background to be jarring. Couldn't we simply note that the banner/icon/flag/colors of the colony is provided to the right? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:06, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Peter. You've saved us all. As I said earlier, I liked it when the banner appeared to be hanging from the red line under its colony's name. I share Peter's dislike for tons of white space and alternating the sides seemed to create the least of that. However, if we just had the emblem and colors from each flag, we could do it below the red line as Fang seems to like, and not have this huge, long graphic. Maybe we can then link the full banner pics and, if we get enough information that a given colony's article wouldn't be a stub, we can display it there. Does all that make sense? --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I like it with banners to right, with titling, albeit a little redundant. Not sure how to deal with the "white space" of many areas, but we're really not going to get them filled until we get more data, so that is that. I feel it's informative enough as it stands, but I'll leave the formatting arguments alone. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:52, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

==Which flag is which?==
A close viewing of [[Colonial Day]] indicates that the flag currently labeled as [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]] belongs to Safiya Sanne's seat - either Picon or Leonis; and that the black flag belongs to Robin Wenutu's seat (Canceron), and that VIrgon's flag is a white field with a green inner stripe and yellow outer stripe. I'm curious as to how QuintusCinna came to his conclusion that the delegates aren't seated at their apprporiate flags, since I don't know any other evidence linking particular flags to colonies. I guess Scorpion is pretty obvious, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:34, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Don't trust the banners lining up with those they represent in [[Colonial Day]]. The reason I say this is that [[Tom Zarek]] is in one area of the room and his very obvious banner for Sagitarron is completely in another area. This is the same for Virgon's banner and their representative. There are 3 different questions I carry thanks to the shows I have watched. In the mini-series we see the banners are in this order from left to right: [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Aerelon|Aerelon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], Scorpion, Aquaria(?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]], Libra (?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]], [[Canceron]] (?), [[Leonis]]. Is this in the order that the colonies signed the unification treaty or is the order for the flags random or is it in the order they were nuked? Though I am sure the producers, directors, and such just put them up in random order, it is now a sense of fact for the show. If we were to believe they were placed up there, the banners must be up there in some order that is according to military protocol for flag bearing. In Colonial Day I add 2 more questions. We see that the banners are behind the delegates in a different order than in the mini-series. This means they were either a) put up randomly or b) have a separate purpose than those shown at the end of the mini-series (nuked, treaty order, or other). Then we see that the delegates are put in a different order than the banners behind them. The Gemenon delegate is clearly seen toward the middle and the Gemenon flag is clearly in a different area. The same questions come up for the delegates: are they randomly placed or is there reason. It's not alphabetical, and placements of delegates and banners in every society is always in some sort of traditional order. I hope that the Battlestar Galactica producers, writers, and such will be able to answer this though I suspect they won't because they have REAL lives.

As for the Picon flag, the constellation looks quite similar to the picon banner and the same goes for Tauron's with Taurus. I have no doubt with those. The Libra's icon can be seen in this picture http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/HorseAstrology/AstrologySymbol.gif 2 clockwise from Sagittarius.
--[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 1:12, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

==New Icons==
What do you think? We might consider making them smaller and removing the image frame and caption, but I'd also be happy leaving them as they are. It's nice to have a place to note that some of the symbols are only tentatively identified with the colonies in question. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:42, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:It looks fine. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 09:11, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I like 'em. I'd say smaller, though. Of course... I have my thumb settings to 300px so that screen shots are large enough to be intelligible, so smaller to me would be about 150px or 100px. I also like alternating for balance, but that's just me. I alternate right a left in other articles, too. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:21, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

I have a set of colonial glyphs that were lifted from a copy of the voting ballots used in Lay Down Your Burdens Pt1. I can upload both the cap of the ballot and the vector graphics file of the glyphs. I've already released the glyphs for public use, so I have no problem with their being used here. The ballot image I have has Baltar's name blurred out, as that was a spoiler at the time the image was released. The image orginally came from the Reproduction Props Forum, where a member got hold of one of the actual props used in the episode. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 14:54, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks for the offer. It would be nice to get a look at them. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:16, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
::Okay, I've uploaded the four jpgs I have of the voting ballot. They still reside on my server at the moment. If you decide to include them in the wiki, I'll upload them to the database. 
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotSm.jpg Small Image of Ballot Front]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotFront.jpg Large Image of Ballot Front]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotBack.jpg Large Image of Ballot Back]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotTop.jpg Very Large Image of Ballot Top]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/ColonialGlyphs.gif My version of the colonial glyphs (gif)]
:: If you want to play with the Photoshop custom shapes file, it's [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/LeesBSGshapes.csh.zip here (zip)]. [[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 00:25, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

==Residence vs. Tribe==

I think there's a difference between "where a character currently makes their residence" and "what colony they are from". I think "what colony they are from" means "what ''tribe''" they are. For example, Dualla could have been away from Sagittaron for years and lived on another Colony, but she's still from the Sagittaron tribe. In "Bastille Day", she describes herself as "a Sagittaron", not "someone ''from'' Sagittaron".

Anyway, I also think that non-canonical information from SkyOne website should not be used in assuming Stabuck may be from Picon, not Caprica. We should wait until this is said on either the Scifi.com official site, or on screen.
--Ricimer, 16 Sept, 2005

:Actually, Dee did say "I'm from Sagittaron". [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:56, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

::I agree with the original sentiment. Under the [[The_Twelve_Colonies_%28RDM%29#Natives_2|Caprica Natives]] section, it lists Gaius Baltar, but then clearly states "(Born on Sagittaron)." If that is the case, then he is a native of ... drumroll please ... '''Sagittaron''', not Caprica. He may have resided there, but he was a Sagitton.

::I think this should be changed, but didn't want to just change it without some discussion. Unless there is a good reason given, though, I'm going to make the change. /[[User:LucentPhoenix|LucentPhoenix]] 08:26, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::The source for Baltar's saggitaron origin was an old SkyOne biography which we no longer consider to be a credible source. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:58, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::::Ah.... alright, then. If it's no longer considered credible, we should probably remove the reference from the Caprica Native page, then, shouldn't we? --[[User:LucentPhoenix|LucentPhoenix]] 15:37, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::::By all means. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:31, 21 November 2006 (CST)

==Outposts==

Ricimer wrote: ''The Colonials actually expanded their sphere of influence over time beyond the original Twelve Colonies to include several outposts, bases, and mining colonies (such as [[Troy]]) in other systems ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html| RDM, January 30, 2005]), though they were apparently minor extensions of the original Twelve Colonies rather than independently functioning worlds in their own right, and when the Cylons overwhelmed the Twelve Colonies themselves no mention is even explicity made about these minor worlds, seeming to take it as a given that the destruction of the Twelve Colonies would equal the destruction of humanity, and that these outposts were not significant enough to pose any challenge to the Cylon fleet.''

RDM's actual comments are:

:Q: "Did the colonies have outposts, bases, or trade partners outside of the 12 colonies. Did they even explore other systems. The colonies could have had observatories, listening posts, or even scientific research teams exploring other planets beyond the colonial system(s). They could encounter any of these which could lead to supplies, raw materials, food, fuel etc. "

:RDM: I think that's probably true, but part of our premise is that the fleet has Jumped far out into unexplored space in an effort to elude the Cylons, so we won't be encountered any other outposts or colonies.

I think that's a very weak confirmation, and if we're going to include it here, it should reflect the vagueness of RDM's actual comment. I have replaced it with the following:

:Ronald D. Moore has suggested that the Colonies probably maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems, but it is unlikely that ''Galactica'' will encounter them in the course of the series. ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016|RDM, January 30, 2005])

--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:35, 15 December 2005 (EST)

==Scorpion vs. Scorpia==

At present, we have a name card from "[[Colonial Day]]" and the name of the [[Scorpia Traveler]] in favor of "Scorpia", and the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] in favor of "Scorpion". Ricimer, if you want to make a case for "Scorpion" over "Scorpia", you ''must'' cite an episode quote, and I will not produce it for you. Your uncited revisions are anathema to our goal of accuracy. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:34, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:I am sorry, I was in a hurry to get out and didn't have time to wip out my copy of the series companion. On p.86 of "Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion", by David Bassom, there is an "''early'' concept sketch of the flags of the Twele Colonies"; On this, it lists the names "Scorpia", but also "Libran", and "Aquarion". "[[Colonial Day]]" established that these two Colonies are in fact named "Libra" and "Aquaria", in dialog, etc. This evidence has led me to believe that "Scorpia" was amongst some early ideas for Colony names that were thrown around in the early stages of production, but which were later changed; however, the art and props department wasn't notified of the switch, or made a mistake, etc. I'm also inclined to this line of thinking because the props in this scene feature several now-infamous goofs, such as the switcheroo between Canceron, Picon, Leonis, etc., etc. As for the evidence from "Scorpia Traveler", there's also a "Gemini" ship, as well as mispelling etc. which have led me to the belief that certain ship names are just meant for asthetic value and do not necessarily reflect the actual name of their home Colony. In "Home, Part II" it was established that the Colonies used to have "ancient names" which align more closely to the signs of the Zodiac, but which over the millenia have drifted away into their present form. Perhaps some ship captains just felt like naming their vessels after the more ancient names. I don't know. But the main points remain: A) Ship names aren't very reliable as an information source, B) this scene had many goofs in it, C) the official companion shows that this was an early name thrown around, but later abandoned, and several of these early names have been disproven by this point. Therefore, I think "Scorpion Fleet Shipyards", the first ''prominent'' mention of Scorpion/Scorpia, taken with the above evidence, proves that the true name of the Colony is "Scorpion". What's everyone else's consensus? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:24, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::I'm with Ricimer on this one.--Zareck Rocks 15:04, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::I agree with Ricimer, as Cain's mention of the "scorpion fleet shipyards" is the only canonical reference to place when it comes to the scorpio-related colony. It has also been shown, as Ricimer mentions above, that the ship names seem to be variations of the colony names i.e. [[Gemenon Taveller]] and the [[Gemini]]. So we can't necessarily glean the name of the scorpio-related colony from the [[Scorpia Traveller]], for there may also be a Scorpion Traveller.
::However, unless someone can verify this with subtitles, Cain could be saying Scorpi''an'' fleet shipyards, rather than Scorpi''on'', thereby inferring that the colony name is Scorpia (I dare to speculate that the Caprica would have it's own Caprican fleet shipyards(if it did indeed have shipyards)). I don't have the DVDs, as they're not yet available in Canada, but someone should really check this, it could answer this question --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 16:20, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::I've grepped the TwizTV logs, and the Scorpia/Scorpion colony has never been referred to apart from the instances we've already listed. So, here's what that means:
:::#We have a mention of the "Scorpia Traveler", which matches the "Gemenon Traveler". "Freighter Gemini" is a TOS reference.
:::#We have a comment that might be the "Scorpion" shipyards, or the "Scorpian" shipyards.
:::#We have a clear and readable screenshot of the name of the colony.
:::We should not "correct" the name of the colony to what we think it "should" be, when we have unequivocal evidence staring us in the face. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:09, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::I'm sorry, but it doesn't really seem like the above evidence is "unequivocal". Thankfully, I think "Resurrection Ship" will make further mention of ''Pegasus' '' flight from the shipyards, and we will probably hear the name again. Best to wait until then. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:05, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::Let me clarify. We have at least seen "Scorpia" spelled out. We have never even ''heard'' "Scorpion", except in a context that might easily have been "Scorpian". In my opinion, the two options here are "Scorpia" or "We don't know". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:45, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::Wait a minute, someone out there has got to have the DVD set of the second season, we should be able to determine the definitive name of the scorpio colony from that. Although, I suppose, Peter, that you're suggesting we leave it at Scorpia until someone can check the subtitles. That sounds fine with me. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 22:56, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::How will that tell us definitively? It was only mentioned in "Pegasus", in the ambiguous dialogue mentioned above. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:00, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::Like I said, we stand a good chance of hearing it again in the very next two episodes, so I suggest we leave things as they are, and reach a final decision after "Resurrection Ship, Part II". Although we could get subtitles from the DVD, subtitles can be notoriously innaccurate when it comes to the finer points of spelling, i.e. Scorpion vs. Scorpian. Perhaps we could rewatch Pegasus, and check the inflection that Michelle Forbes uses; I ''think'' she clearly said "-ion" (as opposed to "-ian"). I'll check again; however, even hearing the dialog personally, I doubt this will give a DEFINATIVE answer in ANY form as the actress could have been just slurring it. I don't know. Well, I'll check for the sake of checking. Again, I think we should "wait and see" on this one. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:11, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::::I just watched the episode and the subtitles (however inaccurate) do say "Scorpion." It does sound like Forbes says more of an -ion than -ian. Just my two cents. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:30, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::::Thank you Talos. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:04, 26 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::::Scorpion would be pronounced with the full vowel "{{IPA|piɑn}}, while "Scorpian" would use a reduced vowel, {{IPA|piən}} or {{IPA|piɨn}}. The latter is what I hear, although Ricimer is right that it could just be "slurring". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:09, 26 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::::::I've isolated Michelle Forbes's pronunciation of "Scorpi_n" and uploaded it [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpian.wav here]. Unfortunately, the last syllable is basically whispered and cannot be analyzed for vowel formants. It does sound very reduced to me, however. This is not usually the case for Picon, Gemenon, etc. which are almost always realized with full vowels.
:::::::::::Note, by the way, that the ''animal'' spelled "Scorpion" would be pronounced the same as the adjective "Scorpian", while a colony called Scorpion would be pronounced "Skor-pee-on". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:05, 28 December 2005 (EST)

Final call for objections before I move the relevant articles. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:23, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

== Location ==

I didn't want to get into a revert war, so... How, exactly, are the colonies' positions indicated in the Tomb of Athena? I just watched that ep last night and I don't remember any arrows or name tags... If the theory is that the colonies are inside the constellation that shares their name, then I think I'll have to disagree. Not possible. The zodiac constellations are spread about in our sky in a circle, meaning they're not very near each other at all (so if "the Colonies" can be considered some single area of space that's small enough to go from one end to another inside months they need to be closer than a large ring of space encircling Earth) and all the stars in a constellation aren't even necessarily near each other. --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:42, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:I don't think the positions of the Twelve Colonies are indicated at all by the tomb of Athena. It's just a map to Earth (Earth being the only spot where those constellations would appear in that configuration). It is interesting that would mean that there isn't a direct correlation between the constellations and the colonies that they are named after... (other than as a rememberance of where they came from, kind of). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:50, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:The fact of the matter is that the Tomb of Athena holographic map to Earth shows constellations made of the symbols of the Twelve Tribees/Colonies; these constellations are '''entirely arbitrary'''; that is, they were designated purely because they resemble the symbols of the Colonies; each planet of the 12 is in ''no way'' in each constellation. Besides, that would mean they'd often end up in separate galaxies. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:23, 4 January 2006 (EST)

::Well, no, not separate galaxies, but further apart from each other than each is from earth. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:34, 4 January 2006 (EST)

::: My point exactly, Peter. Well said. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:05, 5 January 2006 (EST)

Can we take the part about all the colonies orbiting the same star out of the article? I think it's pretty clear that they're all separate systems, unless someone has different information. --[[User:Bahamut|Bahamut]] 02:42, 12 March 2006 (EST)

:Why do you think that's clear? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:59, 12 March 2006 (CST)

::Mostly because of the use of FTL technology, but also because of the improbability of a star having twelve planets that can support human life. It's discussed elsewhere in the Wiki that it's likely they're all separate systems. Maybe instead of taking it out altogether we should add a caveat about how it's disputed or at least link to the other discussion? --[[User:Bahamut|Bahamut]] 18:36, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Upon re-watching the Miniseries (IMHO anyway) all references are given as hours from caprica, but when the war alert first goes off and Cmdr Adama asks to "scan the system" (circa 48mins in) the report is given that "Now, looks like the main fight is shaping up over here near Virgon's orbit" and a few lines latter "If we can keep Virgon between us and the battle". Which to me means that Virgon, Caprica and Ragnar (a gas giant) are all in the same solar system. thoughts anyone? [[User:Pickle UK|Pickle UK]] 00:45, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:I think this is a settled issue. From Moore's blog, [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000016 30 January 2005]:
::Does it make sense that there would be a star system with 12 inhabitable planets? Not really, but that was in the original and at some point I decided to run with that as another nod to the old show.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:56, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::An important note on this topic is that among young stars, they tend to be grouped in what is known as "stellar associations" which are several stars that are gravitational bound together by virtue of them all being born at the same time in the same stellar nursery and all being within a light year of each other; hence you could call them a system. Now, over time as they get more to our Sun's age, they will disapate over a great distance and no longer be associated, but this is over 100s of millions to billions of years. Generally it is considered unlikely that such young stars bear planets that possess life but does not rule out the idea that they have planets... earth-like planets. Therefore, a stellar association, possessing 12 or more stars....all within a light year of each other...--[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 01:40, 10 April 2006 (PST)

::::Honestly, this is the sort of speculation that impedes my enjoyment of the show. It doesn't matter, and I don't care. Feel free to speculate as you will, but I think the whole debate is distracting and unworthy of more than a footnote. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:37, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

== More on flags ==

I found this a while ago. A user on Sci-Fi.com's messageboard going by "bescincimevsim" has made some incredible renderings of all twelve colonial flags that, in my oppinion look very good and accurate to what has been seen on the show. It might be worth checking out the [http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=BattlestarGalactica&Number=1310569&Searchpage=2&Main=1310569&Words=bescincimevsim&topic=&Search=true#Post1310569 topic here]. I ''think'' they might be avalible for free use, but then again the guy doesn't seem to be available for contact anymore a he posted only one topic, the one about the flags, then stopped posting altogether in mid October. Either way, I think it should be worth checking out. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 18:05, 25 January 2006 (EST)

:We should not use these. I think they're just fanart. There is a page in the official companion of *early* flag designs (the names are wrong in some cases, etc. so this page of the book is an early draft and shouldn't be used as fact). However, this guy also confuses the symbols of Tauron and Leonis. I mean it's just a guy posting on a messageboard. The Citation Crusade wouldn't stand for it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:22, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::The assignment of colony and flag is obviously non-canon, but the graphics themselves are far superior to the ones we're using. We should ask him to license them to us under the CCL. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:56, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::Alternately, if he can be contacted, ask him to create corrected ones based on a CCL.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 14:40, 2 February 2006 (EST)
::Well, I've done some tweaking to our icons making them look a little crisper and sort-of rationalised the originals by QuintusCinna and the ones seen on the Sci-Fi BBS by bescincimevsim. I'll upload them soon and if you don't like them then I guess you can just revert them later. Just thought I'd help out, is all. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 00:12, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::I think they're an improvement. Thank you, Kahran. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:57, 17 March 2006 (CST)

==Colonial Flags==
The Colonial Flags, as listed on this page, have been matched to their colonies based solely on on-screen evidence. Given their dubious veracity on other matters, I am not prepared to take the Official Magazine's word for it over what we've actually seen — at least not without a discussion. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:26, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:Okay, then you should know that the flags also match what is written in the Battlestar Galactica The Official Companion. It has a page for Colonial Day that lists the flasg for each colony and it's the smae as the Magazine flag listings, so that's two sources that support my listings as opposed the shoddy on-screen evidence from the episodes. --Ltcrashdown 22:30, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::I've examined the footage of Colonial Day and QuintusCinna's arguments, and concluded that they aren't very strong. I'm going to revert this back to your version. Do you have a cite for the Official Companion as well? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:35, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::Here's the info: Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion by David Bassom, page 86, Published by Titan Books, London, August 2005
:::By the way, what was QuintusCinna's source?--Ltcrashdown 22:39, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::::For the colonies at issue here, it was mostly conjecture on his part. I remembered his argument having more basis than it actually did. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:26, 8 February 2006 (EST)

== We are Gemenese if you Please! ==

I think the way this works (and once we nail it down, we should put it on S&C, probably) is that someone ''from'' Gemenon is a Gemenon, but the adjective for describing them is Gemenese. So, like, a nice Gemenese Rug or something. This is a throwback to the language of Gemenese in TOS, I think. Now... Is someone from Caprica Caprican and "a Caprica" or does that one match the adjective (like I'm from Texas, thus I am Texan and "a Texan" if that helps)? Whatcha think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:07, 19 February 2006 (EST)

== Aerilon? ==

Unless someone cites a source on this spelling correction, I think this needs to be reverted. Anyone? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) 19:46, 20 March 2006 (CST)
:Seems like other people are using it: http://s9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=658 the same way. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:52, 20 March 2006 (CST)
::It is also on http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/ on the Celestra bio. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:55, 20 March 2006 (CST)

::: Well, the forum link is inconclusive, as the poster using that spelling questions it himself and is not, quite frankly, a reliable source. The SciFi.com link is more helpful, but still doesn't help much. They have two different spellings for a couple of the Colonies still around their site, so we can't really trust them on this. Does anyone have a copy of the various writings spawned from the show? If the companions and magazines and scifi.com all agreed, even though none of those are on our big list of accepted sources, I'd consider that a pretty good indication that we'd been misspelling it this whole time. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) 20:30, 20 March 2006 (CST)

==Spelling==
This topic keeps coming up, and our spelling conventions do not seem to match the ones generally used throughout fandom, so I want to have a definitive location for sources on spelling used here. Our emphasis, as always, is on citation and accuracy.

The names of six of the colonies can be seen fully spelled out in the episode "Colonial Day". There should be no room for debate on these.
<gallery>
Image:sp-canceron.jpg|Canceron
Image:sp-caprica.jpg|Caprica
Image:sp-gemenon.jpg|Gemenon
Image:sp-leonis.jpg|Leonis
Image:sp-sagittaron.jpg|Sagittaron
Image:sp-virgon.jpg|Virgon
</gallery>

We can also see the first three letters of "Picon": 
[[Image:sp-picon.jpg|sp-picon.jpg]] 
There's no serious controversy here, as no other spelling has been proposed for that colony.

Although not visible in the episode, the spelling of Scorpia can be clearly seen in a high-resolution [http://galactica.emedian.net/episode/1.11/imagepages/image6.html publicity still]: 
[[Image:sp-scorpia.jpg|150px]] 
This is complicated by [[Helena Cain]]'s reference to the "Scorpian Fleet Shipyards" in the episode "[[Pegasus (episode)]]". [[Talk:The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Scorpion vs. Scorpia|Extensive discussion]] on battlestar wiki concluded that the visual evidence should be deferred to, and also suggested that she may have been using "Scorpian" as an adjectival form of the colony's name. This was supported by Michelle Forbes's use of a reduced vowel in the final syllable, while other colony names used throughout the series have used the fully realized vowel /ɑ/.

The names "Aquaria" and "Tauron" were given in "[[Colonial Day]]" and "[[Pegasus (episode)]]", respectively. There is no serious debate on their spelling.

Very little evidence is available regarding the colony corresponding to Libra. Neither it nor its citizens have ever been mentioned in the miniseries or 33 episodes aired to date, nor has RDM mentioned the colony in his blog. SciFi.com's website refers to the [[Space Park]] as being of "Libran" registry, but it is unclear whether this is meant to be the nominal or adjectival form of the colony's name (see below).

The name of the colony corresponding to Aries was named as {{IPA|'ɛɹ.lɑn}} in "[[Bastille Day]]". Two spellings have been proposed. It is worth noting that the second vowel, which is the one at issue, is not actually pronounced by actress Mary McDonnell.

'''AERILON''' 
'''Official Use'''

The SciFi.com website refers to the [[Celestra]] as being of "Aerilon" registry. This is apparently the nominal form, despite the anomalous use of the adjectival "Caprica" on the "Colonial One" entry on the same webpage. (The adjectival forms of Scorpia (Scorpian, established in "[[Pegasus (episode)]]") and Tauron (Tauranian, established in "[[Resistance]]") are not used.)

RDM uses this spelling in a [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000016 blog entry] dated 30 January, 2005.

'''Fan Use'''
*Google returns approximately [http://www.google.com/search?q=aerilon 400 matches] for this spelling.
*This spelling is used by transcript website SadGeezer.com.

'''AERELON''' 
'''Fan Use'''
*Google returns approximately [http://www.google.com/search?q=aerelon 300 matches] for this spelling.
*[http://tviv.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(2003)/The_Twelve_Colonies TV IV]
--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:34, 23 March 2006 (CST)

== Should I Add This Or Not? ==

On Wikipedia there is a lot more information on the Twelve Colonies, including founders and names of capital cities. Should I add this information to the corresponding colony section on this page or is this information that doesn't belong on this wiki? --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 11:04, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:We're pretty strict about [[BW:CITE|citations]] around here. Unless we can find official sources to back up that info, it doesn't belong here. I'm pretty sure that it hasn't been officially established names for all Twelve Lords of Kobol (if there are exactly twelve, as RDM was a bit vague on this), and I've got no idea where they are getting the capitol names from. If there is an official source, we'd be good, but it feels like this may be derived from fan fiction (which would have NO place on this article) or at best from novelizations/alternate continuity (which could at least be argued, but is still suspect). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:17, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::Understood. I just reviewed the article and it said that the names were non-canonical. In that case, Wikipedia's information has NO place in this article. If the characters start listing off this information in the next seasons (which I SERIOUSLY doubt they will at this point), I can put it in. However, I want to note that I found confirmation for Aerelon's capital (including a photo) and the colony description on Google. You have to type "Aerelon" (make sure it's spelled EXACTLY like that) and then scroll down the top ten results page. The title is simply "Aerelon" and is located two results under the listing for our own wiki. The description starts with "Capital: Maegera"--[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 19:24, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:::That's a fan site. Please read over the [[BW:CITE|Citation Jihad]] for a list of official sources. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:00, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Thank you no end, Homeworld616, for pointing out this grievous error on Wikipedia. *One person* posted their own fanfic into there: they even left a warning label: "These following sections contain equal parts fanon and canon.".....er, it is impossible to be both "fanon" and "canon" at the same time. ----->'''I have personally deleted all of this fanfic from Wikipedia, and warned the user that posted it'''. Sorry, but they get all kinds on wikipedia. Thanks for asking us and bringing it to our attention 616--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:45, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:No problem, Merovingian. It's my pleasure to help make Wikipedia and its associated sites better for all. I can't believe someone actually tried to pass their fanfic off as fact. Oh well, so long as it has been deleted. But we need to watch for other users posting crap around here. Wikipedia's Twelve Colonies may just be the beginning. To quote Shakespeare from ''The Tempest,'' "what is past is prologue." --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 01:12, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Notes on Culture ==

All right, has anyone noticed that in the Colonies, virtually everything that would be a rectangle here on Earth (pictureframe, sheet of paper, etc.) is a ''hexagon''? To cite some examples, in the [[Miniseries]] Roslin is handed a slip of paper describing the Cylon attack on a networked Battlestar. That slip is a hexagon. Adama's picture frame of him, Zak and Lee is also a hexagon. Even the computers are hexagons. Now, a hexagon has 6 sides (half of 12, which is seemingly a symbolic number in the series), and is a practical shape for use (12-gons would be stupid for paper) so does anyone think that the hexagon is some kind of symbolic shape for the Colonials?

Also, in the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]], Starbuck is walking past display cases full of ancient pottery. Culture is transmitted in the form of art and artifacts, so while this may be trivial I feel like it is worth noting.

In addition to this, notice how Elosha's priestess garment is pretty eccentric, while Brother Cavil's uniform is a plain black cassock with some purple decorations. A difference of garb choice for priestesses and priests, perhaps?

Furthermore, in the [[Miniseries]], notice those Caprican mothers carting their babies around the city in those oversized plastic baby carriages that look like they provide too much protection for the tots. Perhaps a link to the Scripture statement saying that life is precious and should be protected? I can't think of any other way for the carriage manufacturer to be willing to put extra money into obtaining more plastic resources for the increased carriage size and safety. No wait, lawsuits... But that still wouldn't explain the supersized babymobiles and extra costs and materials needed for manufacturing.

Cereals! In [[Sacrifice]] (I think, I'm not sure), Roslin tells an aggressive Billy Keikaya, "Looks like someone ate their Wheaties today." Okay, so...General Mills was actually a ''Colonial'' corporation and they imported it to Earth while we weren't looking. This might just imply that the Colonials also ate Cascadian Farm, Frescarini, Lucky Charms, Chex Mix, Cheerios, Hamburger Helper...the list goes on. Either that or I'm just making a big deal over some trivial prodcut placement.

Finally, in TOS, most of the buildings in Caprica (with exception of Long Beach City Hall where the episode was filmed), were pyramids. In the RDM series, there aren't as many pyramids, but there are a couple in Caprica City (let me get the image). Since there is circumstantial evidence that life began on Earth, does anyone think these pyramids could be a link with the Egyptians, who already had a thriving civilization and the Giza pyramids built by the time Greece (and perhaps the Kobol-sect) became an ancient powerhouse?

Taking all of this into consideration, should I initiate a "Culture" section for the Twelve Colonies (RDM)? --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:36, 3 July 2006 (CDT)
:According the the episode transcript...
:'''[[Laura Roslin]]''': Someone took their vitamins this morning. 
:'''[[Billy Keikeya]]''': Yeah, I don't know what got into me. 
:--''[[Sacrifice]]''
:There's an "[[Arts and Literature of the Twelve Colonies|arts and lit article]]" under construction for the 12 Colonies seriesthat might be a home for some of the architecture, pottery, etc. notes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:08, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks, Steelviper. I'll look into that. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 15:18, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

[[Image:Mini-Caprica City.jpg]]
Here's the image. Look to the FAR right hand side and note the two pyramid office buildings, one with steep lateral faces and the other looking kind of like a glass reproduction of the Giza pyramids. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:41, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

Arts and Lit is where we're working on that. Note, that it's really just an in-joke from the Miniseries: they had to "cut corners" on the production due to budget restraints, so it started out as a joke that they were "cutting corners" on everything. The problem was, as this series progressed this became a logistical nightmare, as literally hours of work had to be spent into doing this, i.e. stacks of books in Cain's quarters. As for the image....I'm sorry but it's too vague to actually make out if it's anything. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:24, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

== Links ==

Folks, I've noticed there's some ambiguity going on with the Wiki reference links, and I think we should probably straighten them out. In short, do we want to link to the astrological sign, or the constellations? I note this because I just cleaned up a few of the links before realizing this should be discussed, as (for example), someone had [[Wikipedia:Capricorn|Capricorn]] point to the WP page there, which is a disambig page, instead of [[Wikipedia:Capricorn (astrology)|Capricorn (astrology)]] or [[Wikipedia:Capricornus|Capricorn'''us''']] (the constellation; note the spelling, as there's at least one more constellation that swings this way - [[Wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpius]]). Just a thought or two to muddy the waters further. ^_^--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 22:00, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:I'd prefer to link to the constellations. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:08, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:: Done and done, then.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:44, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

The Twelve Colonies of Kobol

2006-12-01T17:38:59Z

TaKometer: see talk about the change

:''This article discusses the Twelve Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. See [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)]] for information on the Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]].''

{{RDM twelve colonies series}}

Approximately 2,000 years ago, twelve of the thirteen tribes of [[Kobol]] leave the planet due to an issue involving their [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|gods]], settling on 12 worlds <ref>Stated by [[Elosha]] in the [[miniseries]]. The use of "worlds" is ambiguous, as the colonies could be large habitable moons as well as planets.</ref> some distance away ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]). Their names and icons originally corresponded to the twelve signs of the ancient tribes, although these [[wikipedia:Zodiac|names]] drifted over time<ref>Flag matches with Colonies from "Encyclopedia Galactica." [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine]]. Feb./Mar. 2006: 50-55.</ref> ([[Home, Part II]]).

Although Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and President [[Laura Roslin]] mention leaving the solar system
<ref>The 2003 [[Video Game]] and the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] name the home system (or galaxy) for the Twelve Colonies as [[Cyrannus]]. However, since both the Video Game and Original Series material is of a [[Battlestar Wiki:Separate continuity|separate continuity]], its name for the system is questionable for the Re-imagined Series. In an early script of the miniseries, the Twelve Colonies were originally located on a single world - [[Kobol]]. However, this was later revised to twelve separate worlds, in keeping with the Original Series concept.</ref>, it is unclear whether all twelve colonies are in this solar system<ref>the existence of corporations with names such as [[intersun]] suggest that some colonies were in different star system(s)</ref> or what the name of this star might be. However, Caprica, Virgon, and [[Ragnar]], a gas giant, are within the same star system ([[Miniseries]]).

The Colonies had approximately 20 billion inhabitants prior to the Cylon attack ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance|The Resistance]])<ref>In an early draft manuscript of the [[Miniseries]], Secretary [[Laura Roslin]] notes that the [[Colonial Ministry of Defense|Ministry of Defense]] conducts the government census, and had a count of 12 billion individuals. Saul Tigh's approximation in ''The Resistance'', as aired, should be taken as the correct value.</ref>.

The Colonies maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems<ref>[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 Sourced from a January 30, 2005] blog entry by [[Ronald D. Moore]] on Sci-Fi.com.</ref>. Economic activity, such as [[tylium]] mining also occurred outside of the immediate vicinity around the Colonies ([[Hero]]).

==Aerelon==
[[Image:ColonialColors7.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aerelon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Aries (constellation)|Aries]]

"Fifteen people died" when President [[Richard Adar]], for reasons unexplained, sent the [[Colonial Marine Corps|Marines]] to Aerelon ([[Water]]).

The mining colony of [[Troy]], destroyed in a cataclysmic explosion ([[Flesh and Bone]]) is located near Aerelon, and may have been operated by natives of that world. [[Troy]] was the alleged home of [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

The pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] team from Aerelon played against the [[Caprica Buccaneers]] in one of the last games before the Cylon attack. They apparently won ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).

A photo of a grief-stricken soldier staring out at the ruins of Aerelon's capital hangs behind President Roslin's desk and on the bulkhead of the pilot ready room on ''Galactica'' (titled [["Lest We Forget"]]). ''Galactica's ''pilots touch the photo for luck as they file past to the hangar.

===Natives===
*[[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] - ([[Cylon agent#Ron Moore elaborates on the twelve models|Falsified]]. Precise home given as the [[Troy]] mining colony)
*[[Sekou Hamilton]] (Presumably - editor of the ''Aerelon Gazette'')
*[[Socinus]]
*The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aerelon voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]])

===Publications===
*''[[Aerelon Gazette]]''

 

==Aquaria==
[[Image:ColonialColors12.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aquaria]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Aquarius (constellation)|Aquarius]])

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aquaria voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).
 

==Canceron==
[[Image:ColonialColors9.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Canceron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Cancer (constellation)|Cancer]]

*[[Robin Wenutu]] is the Canceron Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]].

 

==Caprica==
[[Image:ColonialColors3.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Caprica]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Capricornus|Capricornus]])

Caprica is a large blue-green planet. Its largest population center is [[Caprica City]], which serves as the seat of all three branches of the Colonial [[Government]], making Caprica effectively the capital of the Twelve Colonies. Caprica City is surrounded by other small towns and hamlets, such as [[Oasis]].

Thus far, Caprica is the only planet of the Twelve Colonies that viewers have seen directly. The series' opening credits show Caprica City, as well as the nuclear bombing of Caprica itself.

Other major cities included [[Delphi]], famous for the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]] and also home to a large spaceport. During the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], the Cylons spared Delphi from nuclear bombardment in order to use it as a base of operations in their occupation of the planet. The human [[Caprica Resistance|resistance]] cell, led by [[Samuel Anders]], operates near Delphi.

Caprica is known for its fine Caprican cloth (which Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] wears), [[fumarella leaf]], [[Caprican Imperial|Caprican cigars]] and art.

A railway line can be seen below the balcony of Baltar's house on Caprica during "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]." What appear to be internal combustion engine powered vehicles, such as cars and trucks, are seen extensively in shots of Caprica.

===Natives===
*[[William Adama|William "Husker" Adama]]. (Born in [[Qualai]])
*[[Caroline Adama]]
*[[Lee Adama|Lee "Apollo" Adama]].
*Lt. [[Zak Adama]]
*Doctor [[Gaius Baltar]] (Born on Sagittaron)
*[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] (Had an apartment in Delphi. Sky One sources state that she was born on Picon, but this information is questionable).
*[[James McManus]] (Presumably - editor of the ''[[Caprican Times]]'')
*[[Aaron Doral]] (alleged home was in [[Oasis]])
*President [[Richard Adar]] (Presumably - according to background information from SkyOne he started his political career as the mayor of [[Caprica City]])

===Publications and Media===
*''[[Caprican Times]]''
*''[[Caprican Life]]''
*[[Caprica 5]]
*[[Channel 7 News]]

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Caprica Buccaneers]]

===See also===
* [[Caprica City]]
* [[Caprica Beach]]
* [[Gup's Point]]
* [[Oasis]]
* [[Pilgrim Bay]]
* [[Qualai]]
* [[Unnamed Cities of Caprica]]

 

==Gemenon==
[[Image:ColonialColors5.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Gemenon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Gemini (constellation)|Gemini]]

Gemenon natives are known for their literal interpretations of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] ([[Fragged]]). Despite federal laws guaranteeing of reproductive freedom, the population of Gemenon was apparently very strongly opposed to abortion. Traditional Gemenese law declares children to be the property of their parents ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

Gemenon is home to the Kobol College School of Public Relations ([[Miniseries]]). One of the last ever pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] games was held on Gemenon just prior to the [[Cylon attack]] on the Colonies ([[Miniseries]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Sarah Porter]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*Corporal [[Venner]]
*Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Rya Kibby]]
 

==Leonis==
[[Image:ColonialColors8.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Leonis]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Leo (constellation)|Leo]]

[[Safiya Sanne]] is identified as both Leonis's and [[#Picon|Picon]]'s representative on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. See his article for details.

 

==Libra==
[[Image:ColonialColors11.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Libra]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Libra (constellation)|Libra]]

''Practically no information has been given yet regarding the colony corresponding to Libra. Its colonial-era name also has yet to be confirmed.''

The ''[[Space Park]]'', a passenger liner in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]], is of Libran registry.

 

==Picon==
[[Image:ColonialColors2.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Picon]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Pisces (constellation)|Pisces]])

Picon is the location for the [[Picon Fleet Headquarters|Colonial Fleet Headquarters]] ([[Miniseries]]); as such, much of its population is probably made up of military personnel and their dependents. The colony came under heavy attack during the early stages of the Cylon attack. President [[Richard Adar]] offered a complete and unconditional surrender to the Cylons after Picon was nuked; this overture was ignored ([[Miniseries]], [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)|deleted scene]]).

[[Ellen Tigh]] claimed to be at the airport on Picon, "on her way home" when the attack started, and that some "unknown hero" ensured she was put on the last ship to get off the planet ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Safiya Sanne]], [[Quorum of Twelve]] (Although see his article for some confusion on the matter)
* [[Playa Palacios]], Veteran columnist from the ''Picon Star Tribune'' (presumed a resident)
* [[Asha Janik]], Cylon sympathizer, member of the "[[Demand Peace]]" movement

===Publications===
*''[[Picon Star Tribune]]''

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Picon Panthers]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

 

==Sagittaron==
[[Image:ColonialColors10.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Sagittaron]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Sagittarius (constellation)|Sagittarius]])

Sagittaron endured centuries of exploitation at the hands of the other Colonies ([[Bastille Day]]), so much so that even after [[Articles of Colonization|unified Colonial rule]], [[Tom Zarek]] led an organized series of terrorist acts against the established government there, many years before the fall of the Colonies. One of these acts include blowing up a government building ([[Bastille Day]]). Under Sagittarian penal law, convicted felons lose their citizenship, but have it automatically reinstated after they finish serving their sentences. This included the right to vote and to stand for election ([[Colonial Day]]).

As of the episode "[[33]]," 5,251 natives of the planet resided in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]].

===Natives===
*Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*Representative [[Tom Zarek]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*[[Valance]] ([[Colonial Day]])
*[[Leon Grimes]] ([[Colonial Day]])

===Note===
Sagittaron is referred to as "Sagittar'''i'''on" in the [[Miniseries]], but this changed to "Sagittaron" when the regular series began.

 

==Scorpia==
[[Image:ColonialColors6.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Scorpia]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpius]]

Home to a [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] [[Scorpian Fleet Shipyards|shipyard]], where battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' was docked during the Cylon attack. Scorpia native [[Eladio Puasha]] serves as its Quorum delegate.

 

==Tauron==
[[Image:ColonialColors4.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Tauron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Taurus (constellation)|Taurus]]

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Tauron votes for [[Gaius Baltar]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).

Tauron was reputed to be somewhat of a rogue colony, often disobeying directives decided by the colonies, and operated [[tylium]] mining facilities close to the [[Armistice Line]] ([[Hero]]).

===Natives===
*Admiral [[Helena Cain]]

 

==Virgon==
[[Image:ColonialColors1.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Virgon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Virgo (constellation)|Virgo]]

[[Marshall Bagot]] is the Virgon Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. In public ceremony, the Virgon delegate wears a light blue sash.

Soon after the Cylon attack began, the bulk of the spacewide offensive by the Colonials began "shaping up" over the planet. The battle ostensibly ends with the destruction of battlestar ''[[Atlantia (RDM)|Atlantia]]'' and the death of Admiral [[Nagala]].

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z|*]]
[[Category:Planets|*]]
[[Category:Twelve Colonies|*]]
[[Category:RDM|*]]

[[de:Die Zwölf Kolonien (RDM)]]
[[es:Las Doce Colonias (RDM)]]

Tetrahydrocycline

2006-12-01T01:12:21Z

TaKometer:

'''Tetrahydrocycline''' is supposedly a highly volatile chemical compound.

According to [[Gaius Baltar]], it was one of the compounds used in the precursor test of his original (i.e. ficticious) [[Cylon detector]].

He brought it forward as a means of posturing, preventing Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and others in the know from realizing that he had no true means of detecting [[Cylon agent]]s in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] after ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica's]]'' port water tanks are blown open to space, likely by a Cylon saboteur ([[Water]]).

==Note==

Dr. Baltar's medical experience (by way of his panic) may have meant [http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/hydroxytetracycline hydroxytetracycline], which is far from a volatile chemical compound on the real-world Earth. The compound is an broad-spectrum antibiotic used to treat a variety of infections, from acne and anthrax to the Plague. Another possibility is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclohexene], assuming "cycline" refers to benzene: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene].

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
[[Category:Terminology (RDM)]]
[[Category: RDM]]

The Twelve Colonies of Kobol

2006-12-01T01:05:53Z

TaKometer:

:''This article discusses the Twelve Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. See [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)]] for information on the Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]].''

{{RDM twelve colonies series}}

Approximately 2,000 years ago, twelve of the thirteen tribes of [[Kobol]] leave the planet due to an issue involving their [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|gods]], settling on 12 worlds <ref>Elosha, miniseries. Worlds is ambiguous, they could be moons orbiting gas giants or planets</ref> some distance away ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]). Their names and icons originally corresponded to the twelve signs of the ancient tribes, although these [[wikipedia:Zodiac|names]] drifted over time<ref>Flag matches with Colonies from "Encyclopedia Galactica." [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine]]. Feb./Mar. 2006: 50-55.</ref> ([[Home, Part II]]).

Although Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and President [[Laura Roslin]] mention leaving the solar system
<ref>The 2003 [[Video Game]] and the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] name the home system (or galaxy) for the Twelve Colonies as [[Cyrannus]]. However, since both the Video Game and Original Series material is of a [[Battlestar Wiki:Separate continuity|separate continuity]], its name for the system is questionable for the Re-imagined Series. In an early script of the miniseries, the Twelve Colonies were originally located on a single world - [[Kobol]]. However, this was later revised to twelve separate worlds, in keeping with the Original Series concept.</ref>, it is unclear whether all twelve colonies are in this solar system or what the name of this star might be. However, Caprica, Virgon, and Ragnar Anchorage are within the same star system ([[Miniseries]]), and the existence of corporations with names such as [[intersun]] suggest that some colonies were in different star system(s).

The Colonies had approximately 20 billion inhabitants prior to the Cylon attack ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance|The Resistance]])<ref>In an early draft manuscript of the [[Miniseries]], Secretary [[Laura Roslin]] notes that the [[Colonial Ministry of Defense|Ministry of Defense]] conducts the government census, and had a count of 12 billion individuals. Saul Tigh's approximation in ''The Resistance'', as aired, should be taken as the correct value.</ref>.

The Colonies maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems<ref>[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 Sourced from a January 30, 2005] blog entry by [[Ronald D. Moore]] on Sci-Fi.com.</ref>. Economic activity, such as [[tylium]] mining also occurred outside of the immediate vicinity around the colonies ([[Hero]]).

==Aerelon==
[[Image:ColonialColors7.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aerelon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Aries (constellation)|Aries]]

"Fifteen people died" when President [[Richard Adar]], for reasons unexplained, sent the [[Colonial Marine Corps|Marines]] to Aerelon ([[Water]]).

The mining colony of [[Troy]], destroyed in a cataclysmic explosion ([[Flesh and Bone]]) is located near Aerelon, and may have been operated by natives of that world. [[Troy]] was the alleged home of [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

The pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] team from Aerelon played against the [[Caprica Buccaneers]] in one of the last games before the Cylon attack. They apparently won ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).

A photo of a grief-stricken soldier staring out at the ruins of Aerelon's capital hangs behind President Roslin's desk and on the bulkhead of the pilot ready room on ''Galactica'' (titled [["Lest We Forget"]]). ''Galactica's ''pilots touch the photo for luck as they file past to the hangar.

===Natives===
*[[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] - ([[Cylon agent#Ron Moore elaborates on the twelve models|Falsified]]. Precise home given as the [[Troy]] mining colony)
*[[Sekou Hamilton]] (Presumably - editor of the ''Aerelon Gazette'')
*[[Socinus]]
*The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aerelon voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]])

===Publications===
*''[[Aerelon Gazette]]''

 

==Aquaria==
[[Image:ColonialColors12.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aquaria]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Aquarius (constellation)|Aquarius]])

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aquaria voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).
 

==Canceron==
[[Image:ColonialColors9.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Canceron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Cancer (constellation)|Cancer]]

*[[Robin Wenutu]] is the Canceron Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]].

 

==Caprica==
[[Image:ColonialColors3.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Caprica]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Capricornus|Capricornus]])

Caprica is a large blue-green planet, similar to Earth. Its largest population center is [[Caprica City]], which serves as the seat of all three branches of the Colonial [[Government]], making Caprica effectively the capital of the Twelve Colonies. Caprica City is surrounded by other small towns and hamlets, such as [[Oasis]]. Thus far, Caprica is the only planet of the Twelve Colonies that viewers have seen directly. The episode opening credits show Caprica City, as well as the nuclear bombing of Caprica itself.

Other major cities included [[Delphi]], famous for the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]] and also home to a large spaceport. During the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], the Cylons spared Delphi from nuclear bombardment in order to use it as a base of operations in their occupation of the planet. The human [[Caprica Resistance|resistance]] cell, led by [[Samuel Anders]], operates near Delphi.

Caprica is known for its fine Caprican cloth (which Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] wears), [[fumarella leaf]], [[Caprican Imperial|Caprican cigars]] and art.

A railway line can be seen below the balcony of Baltar's house on Caprica during "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]." What appear to be internal combustion engine powered vehicles, such as cars and trucks, are seen extensively in shots of Caprica.

===Natives===
*[[William Adama|William "Husker" Adama]]. (Born in [[Qualai]])
*[[Caroline Adama]]
*[[Lee Adama|Lee "Apollo" Adama]].
*Lt. [[Zak Adama]]
*Doctor [[Gaius Baltar]] (Born on Sagittaron)
*[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] (Had an apartment in Delphi. Sky One sources state that she was born on Picon, but this information is questionable).
*[[James McManus]] (Presumably - editor of the ''[[Caprican Times]]'')
*[[Aaron Doral]] (alleged home was in [[Oasis]])
*President [[Richard Adar]] (Presumably - according to background information from SkyOne he started his political career as the mayor of [[Caprica City]])

===Publications and Media===
*''[[Caprican Times]]''
*''[[Caprican Life]]''
*[[Caprica 5]]
*[[Channel 7 News]]

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Caprica Buccaneers]]

===See also===
* [[Caprica City]]
* [[Caprica Beach]]
* [[Gup's Point]]
* [[Oasis]]
* [[Pilgrim Bay]]
* [[Qualai]]
* [[Unnamed Cities of Caprica]]

 

==Gemenon==
[[Image:ColonialColors5.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Gemenon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Gemini (constellation)|Gemini]]

Gemenon natives are known for their literal interpretations of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] ([[Fragged]]). Despite federal laws guaranteeing of reproductive freedom, the population of Gemenon was apparently very strongly opposed to abortion. Traditional Gemenese law declares children to be the property of their parents ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

Gemenon is home to the Kobol College School of Public Relations ([[Miniseries]]). One of the last ever pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] games was held on Gemenon just prior to the [[Cylon attack]] on the Colonies ([[Miniseries]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Sarah Porter]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*Corporal [[Venner]]
*Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Rya Kibby]]
 

==Leonis==
[[Image:ColonialColors8.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Leonis]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Leo (constellation)|Leo]]

[[Safiya Sanne]] is identified as both Leonis's and [[#Picon|Picon]]'s representative on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. See his article for details.

 

==Libra==
[[Image:ColonialColors11.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Libra]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Libra (constellation)|Libra]]

''Practically no information has been given yet regarding the colony corresponding to Libra. Its colonial-era name also has yet to be confirmed.''

The ''[[Space Park]]'', a passenger liner in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]], is of Libran registry.

 

==Picon==
[[Image:ColonialColors2.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Picon]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Pisces (constellation)|Pisces]])

Picon is the location for the [[Picon Fleet Headquarters|Colonial Fleet Headquarters]] ([[Miniseries]]); as such, much of its population is probably made up of military personnel and their dependents. The colony came under heavy attack during the early stages of the Cylon attack. President [[Richard Adar]] offered a complete and unconditional surrender to the Cylons after Picon was nuked; this overture was ignored ([[Miniseries]], [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)|deleted scene]]).

[[Ellen Tigh]] claimed to be at the airport on Picon, "on her way home" when the attack started, and that some "unknown hero" ensured she was put on the last ship to get off the planet ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Safiya Sanne]], [[Quorum of Twelve]] (Although see his article for some confusion on the matter)
* [[Playa Palacios]], Veteran columnist from the ''Picon Star Tribune'' (presumed a resident)
* [[Asha Janik]], Cylon sympathizer, member of the "[[Demand Peace]]" movement

===Publications===
*''[[Picon Star Tribune]]''

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Picon Panthers]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

 

==Sagittaron==
[[Image:ColonialColors10.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Sagittaron]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Sagittarius (constellation)|Sagittarius]])

Sagittaron endured centuries of exploitation at the hands of the other Colonies ([[Bastille Day]]), so much so that even after [[Articles of Colonization|unified Colonial rule]], [[Tom Zarek]] led an organized series of terrorist acts against the established government there, many years before the fall of the Colonies. One of these acts include blowing up a government building ([[Bastille Day]]). Under Sagittarian penal law, convicted felons lose their citizenship, but have it automatically reinstated after they finish serving their sentences. This included the right to vote and to stand for election ([[Colonial Day]]).

As of the episode "[[33]]," 5,251 natives of the planet resided in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]].

===Natives===
*Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*Representative [[Tom Zarek]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*[[Valance]] ([[Colonial Day]])
*[[Leon Grimes]] ([[Colonial Day]])

===Note===
Sagittaron is referred to as "Sagittar'''i'''on" in the [[Miniseries]], but this changed to "Sagittaron" when the regular series began.

 

==Scorpia==
[[Image:ColonialColors6.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Scorpia]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpius]]

Home to the [[Scorpian Fleet Shipyards]], where battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' was docked during the Cylon attack. Scorpia native [[Eladio Puasha]] serves as its Quorum delegate.

 

==Tauron==
[[Image:ColonialColors4.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Tauron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Taurus (constellation)|Taurus]]

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Tauron votes for [[Gaius Baltar]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).

Tauron was reputed to be somewhat of a rogue colony, often disobeying directives decided by the colonies, and operated [[tylium]] mining facilities close to the [[Armistice Line]].

===Natives===
*Admiral [[Helena Cain]]

 

==Virgon==
[[Image:ColonialColors1.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Virgon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Virgo (constellation)|Virgo]]

[[Marshall Bagot]] is the Virgon Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. In public ceremony, the Virgon delegate wears a light blue sash.

Soon after the Cylon attack began, the bulk of the spacewide offensive by the Colonials began "shaping up" over the planet. The battle ostensibly ends with the destruction of battlestar ''[[Atlantia]]'' and the death of Admiral [[Nagala]].

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z|*]]
[[Category:Planets|*]]
[[Category:Twelve Colonies|*]]
[[Category:RDM|*]]

[[de:Die Zwölf Kolonien (RDM)]]
[[es:Las Doce Colonias (RDM)]]

The Twelve Colonies of Kobol

2006-12-01T01:01:56Z

TaKometer:

:''This article discusses the Twelve Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. See [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)]] for information on the Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]].''

{{RDM twelve colonies series}}

Approximately 2,000 years ago, twelve of the thirteen tribes of [[Kobol]] leave the planet due to an issue involving their [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|gods]], settling on 12 worlds <ref>Elosha, miniseries. Worlds is ambiguous, they could be moons orbiting gas giants or planets</ref> some distance away ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]). Their names and icons originally corresponded to the twelve signs of the ancient tribes, although these [[wikipedia:Zodiac|names]] drifted over time<ref>Flag matches with Colonies from "Encyclopedia Galactica." [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine]]. Feb./Mar. 2006: 50-55.</ref> ([[Home, Part II]]).

Although Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and President [[Laura Roslin]] mention leaving the solar system
<ref>The 2003 [[Video Game]] and the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] name the home system (or galaxy) for the Twelve Colonies as [[Cyrannus]]. However, since both the Video Game and Original Series material is of a [[Battlestar Wiki:Separate continuity|separate continuity]], its name for the system is questionable for the Re-imagined Series. In an early script of the miniseries, the Twelve Colonies were originally located on a single world - [[Kobol]]. However, this was later revised to twelve separate worlds, in keeping with the Original Series concept.</ref>, it is unclear whether all twelve colonies are in this solar system or what the name of this star might be. However, Caprica, Virgon, and Ragnar Anchorage are within the same star system ([[Miniseries]]), and the existence of corporations with names such as [[intersun]] suggest that some colonies were in different star system(s).

The Colonies had approximately 20 billion inhabitants prior to the Cylon attack ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance|The Resistance]])<ref>In an early draft manuscript of the [[Miniseries]], Secretary [[Laura Roslin]] notes that the [[Colonial Ministry of Defense|Ministry of Defense]] conducts the government census, and had a count of 12 billion individuals. Saul Tigh's approximation in ''The Resistance'', as aired, should be taken as the correct value.</ref>.

[[Ronald D. Moore]] has suggested that the Colonies probably maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems, but it is unlikely that ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' will encounter them in the course of the series <ref>[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 Sourced from a January 30, 2005] blog entry by [[Ronald D. Moore]] on Sci-Fi.com.</ref>.

==Aerelon==
[[Image:ColonialColors7.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aerelon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Aries (constellation)|Aries]]

"Fifteen people died" when President [[Richard Adar]], for reasons unexplained, sent the [[Colonial Marine Corps|Marines]] to Aerelon ([[Water]]).

The mining colony of [[Troy]], destroyed in a cataclysmic explosion ([[Flesh and Bone]]) is located near Aerelon, and may have been operated by natives of that world. [[Troy]] was the alleged home of [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

The pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] team from Aerelon played against the [[Caprica Buccaneers]] in one of the last games before the Cylon attack. They apparently won ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).

A photo of a grief-stricken soldier staring out at the ruins of Aerelon's capital hangs behind President Roslin's desk and on the bulkhead of the pilot ready room on ''Galactica'' (titled [["Lest We Forget"]]). ''Galactica's ''pilots touch the photo for luck as they file past to the hangar.

===Natives===
*[[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] - ([[Cylon agent#Ron Moore elaborates on the twelve models|Falsified]]. Precise home given as the [[Troy]] mining colony)
*[[Sekou Hamilton]] (Presumably - editor of the ''Aerelon Gazette'')
*[[Socinus]]
*The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aerelon voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]])

===Publications===
*''[[Aerelon Gazette]]''

 

==Aquaria==
[[Image:ColonialColors12.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aquaria]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Aquarius (constellation)|Aquarius]])

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aquaria voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).
 

==Canceron==
[[Image:ColonialColors9.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Canceron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Cancer (constellation)|Cancer]]

*[[Robin Wenutu]] is the Canceron Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]].

 

==Caprica==
[[Image:ColonialColors3.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Caprica]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Capricornus|Capricornus]])

Caprica is a large blue-green planet, similar to Earth. Its largest population center is [[Caprica City]], which serves as the seat of all three branches of the Colonial [[Government]], making Caprica effectively the capital of the Twelve Colonies. Caprica City is surrounded by other small towns and hamlets, such as [[Oasis]]. Thus far, Caprica is the only planet of the Twelve Colonies that viewers have seen directly. The episode opening credits show Caprica City, as well as the nuclear bombing of Caprica itself.

Other major cities included [[Delphi]], famous for the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]] and also home to a large spaceport. During the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], the Cylons spared Delphi from nuclear bombardment in order to use it as a base of operations in their occupation of the planet. The human [[Caprica Resistance|resistance]] cell, led by [[Samuel Anders]], operates near Delphi.

Caprica is known for its fine Caprican cloth (which Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] wears), [[fumarella leaf]], [[Caprican Imperial|Caprican cigars]] and art.

A railway line can be seen below the balcony of Baltar's house on Caprica during "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]." What appear to be internal combustion engine powered vehicles, such as cars and trucks, are seen extensively in shots of Caprica.

===Natives===
*[[William Adama|William "Husker" Adama]]. (Born in [[Qualai]])
*[[Caroline Adama]]
*[[Lee Adama|Lee "Apollo" Adama]].
*Lt. [[Zak Adama]]
*Doctor [[Gaius Baltar]] (Born on Sagittaron)
*[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] (Had an apartment in Delphi. Sky One sources state that she was born on Picon, but this information is questionable).
*[[James McManus]] (Presumably - editor of the ''[[Caprican Times]]'')
*[[Aaron Doral]] (alleged home was in [[Oasis]])
*President [[Richard Adar]] (Presumably - according to background information from SkyOne he started his political career as the mayor of [[Caprica City]])

===Publications and Media===
*''[[Caprican Times]]''
*''[[Caprican Life]]''
*[[Caprica 5]]
*[[Channel 7 News]]

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Caprica Buccaneers]]

===See also===
* [[Caprica City]]
* [[Caprica Beach]]
* [[Gup's Point]]
* [[Oasis]]
* [[Pilgrim Bay]]
* [[Qualai]]
* [[Unnamed Cities of Caprica]]

 

==Gemenon==
[[Image:ColonialColors5.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Gemenon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Gemini (constellation)|Gemini]]

Gemenon natives are known for their literal interpretations of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] ([[Fragged]]). Despite federal laws guaranteeing of reproductive freedom, the population of Gemenon was apparently very strongly opposed to abortion. Traditional Gemenese law declares children to be the property of their parents ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

Gemenon is home to the Kobol College School of Public Relations ([[Miniseries]]). One of the last ever pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] games was held on Gemenon just prior to the [[Cylon attack]] on the Colonies ([[Miniseries]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Sarah Porter]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*Corporal [[Venner]]
*Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Rya Kibby]]
 

==Leonis==
[[Image:ColonialColors8.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Leonis]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Leo (constellation)|Leo]]

[[Safiya Sanne]] is identified as both Leonis's and [[#Picon|Picon]]'s representative on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. See his article for details.

 

==Libra==
[[Image:ColonialColors11.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Libra]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Libra (constellation)|Libra]]

''Practically no information has been given yet regarding the colony corresponding to Libra. Its colonial-era name also has yet to be confirmed.''

The ''[[Space Park]]'', a passenger liner in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]], is of Libran registry.

 

==Picon==
[[Image:ColonialColors2.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Picon]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Pisces (constellation)|Pisces]])

Picon is the location for the [[Picon Fleet Headquarters|Colonial Fleet Headquarters]] ([[Miniseries]]); as such, much of its population is probably made up of military personnel and their dependents. The colony came under heavy attack during the early stages of the Cylon attack. President [[Richard Adar]] offered a complete and unconditional surrender to the Cylons after Picon was nuked; this overture was ignored ([[Miniseries]], [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)|deleted scene]]).

[[Ellen Tigh]] claimed to be at the airport on Picon, "on her way home" when the attack started, and that some "unknown hero" ensured she was put on the last ship to get off the planet ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Safiya Sanne]], [[Quorum of Twelve]] (Although see his article for some confusion on the matter)
* [[Playa Palacios]], Veteran columnist from the ''Picon Star Tribune'' (presumed a resident)
* [[Asha Janik]], Cylon sympathizer, member of the "[[Demand Peace]]" movement

===Publications===
*''[[Picon Star Tribune]]''

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Picon Panthers]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

 

==Sagittaron==
[[Image:ColonialColors10.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Sagittaron]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Sagittarius (constellation)|Sagittarius]])

Sagittaron endured centuries of exploitation at the hands of the other Colonies ([[Bastille Day]]), so much so that even after [[Articles of Colonization|unified Colonial rule]], [[Tom Zarek]] led an organized series of terrorist acts against the established government there, many years before the fall of the Colonies. One of these acts include blowing up a government building ([[Bastille Day]]). Under Sagittarian penal law, convicted felons lose their citizenship, but have it automatically reinstated after they finish serving their sentences. This included the right to vote and to stand for election ([[Colonial Day]]).

As of the episode "[[33]]," 5,251 natives of the planet resided in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]].

===Natives===
*Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*Representative [[Tom Zarek]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*[[Valance]] ([[Colonial Day]])
*[[Leon Grimes]] ([[Colonial Day]])

===Note===
Sagittaron is referred to as "Sagittar'''i'''on" in the [[Miniseries]], but this changed to "Sagittaron" when the regular series began.

 

==Scorpia==
[[Image:ColonialColors6.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Scorpia]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpius]]

Home to the [[Scorpian Fleet Shipyards]], where battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' was docked during the Cylon attack. Scorpia native [[Eladio Puasha]] serves as its Quorum delegate.

 

==Tauron==
[[Image:ColonialColors4.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Tauron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Taurus (constellation)|Taurus]]

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Tauron votes for [[Gaius Baltar]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).

Tauron was reputed to be somewhat of a rogue colony, often disobeying directives decided by the colonies, and operated [[tylium]] mining facilities close to the [[Armistice Line]].

===Natives===
*Admiral [[Helena Cain]]

 

==Virgon==
[[Image:ColonialColors1.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Virgon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Virgo (constellation)|Virgo]]

[[Marshall Bagot]] is the Virgon Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. In public ceremony, the Virgon delegate wears a light blue sash.

Soon after the Cylon attack began, the bulk of the spacewide offensive by the Colonials began "shaping up" over the planet. The battle ostensibly ends with the destruction of battlestar ''[[Atlantia]]'' and the death of Admiral [[Nagala]].

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z|*]]
[[Category:Planets|*]]
[[Category:Twelve Colonies|*]]
[[Category:RDM|*]]

[[de:Die Zwölf Kolonien (RDM)]]
[[es:Las Doce Colonias (RDM)]]

Hero

2006-11-24T22:21:15Z

TaKometer: /* Analysis */

{{Episode Data
| title= Hero
| image= Season 3 - Promo - Hero -Adama Tigh and Novacek.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 8
| guests= [[Carl Lumbly]]
| writer= [[David Eick]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-17
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,421
| prev= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
| next= [[Unfinished Business]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A [[Bulldog|figure]] from [[William Adama|Adama]]'s past returns to haunt him. His return raises questions about why the Cylons launched their initial attack against the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/hero/episode/748771/summary.html |title=TV.com Episode Summary}}</ref>''
== Summary ==

=== On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' ===

* ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' detects three [[Cylon Raider|Raiders]]. Much to the surpise of the [[CIC]] crew, two Raiders are pursuing a third Raider, damaged by Cylon gunfire. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] are dispatched. After destroying the pursuing Raiders, they go after the third.
* In CIC, [[Admiral Adama]] orders Kat and Starbuck to escort the Raider to ''Galactica'', after hearing, from the Raider, a familiar human voice and callsign: [[Bulldog]].
* In the hangar bay, Adama and the party are surprised that a human has exited the Raider. A visibly weak Daniel Novacek salutes Adama; Adama returns the salute.
* Over a meal (noodles eaten with chopsticks) Adama asks Novachek how he escaped. He relates a story of plague on the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] and escaping after killing a [[Number Three]] with a blow to the nose delivered through the cell bars.
* Bulldog is debriefed by the [[Laura Roslin|President]] with Adama present, where they tell a (decidedly shaky) story of a mining facility too close to the Armistice Line. When the briefing ends, Roslin immediately questions Adama's story. He replies that it is "his mess" and that he resolve it. After she leaves, Adama kicks over a table in frustration.
* Novachek sees [[Saul Tigh]] in his quarters shortly after Adama talks to him. Tigh informs Novacek that Adama (aboard battlestar ''[[Valkyrie]]'') ordered Novachek shot down to get rid of evidence of their incursion into Cylon space.
*Meanwhile, Adama confesses the mission's actual specifics to his son, [[Lee Adama|Lee]], and his belief that he provoked the Cylon attacks on the Colonies. Aghast at first, Lee Adama tries to console his father, blaming the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Fleet Admiralty]], saying that he was "only one man." Adama responds, "It only takes one."
* [[Kara Thrace]] reviews their Viper's gun film from the fight with the Cylon Raiders and realizes that the Cylons were deliberately missing their target, letting Bulldog get away. She goes to Saul Tigh with this information, who deduces that Bulldog was sent there by the Cylons to kill the admiral.
* Tigh finds Novacek in the process of killing Adama and stops him. Bulldog has flashbacks to being let out of his cell.
* Later, Adama presents his resignation to Roslin. Bemused, she refuses to accept it, and points out that the Admiralty may have been trying to provoke a war, and that he cannot shoulder the entire responsiblity for the holocaust on his shoulders. She then tells him that his penance will be to accept a [[Medal of Distinction]] for his long years of service, and to be a hero, a trait badly needed for the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet's morale]].
* After sending Novacek off to a berthing on another ship with a uniform, Tigh and Adama sit down for a drink in the admiral's quarters to discuss what happened to [[Ellen Tigh]] on [[New Caprica]].

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*In a dream, [[Three]] is trying to avoid marines on ''[[Galactica]]''. The marines corner her against a hatch labelled "End of Line." The marines raise their weapons and Three tells them to shoot.
*As the shots go off, Three wakes up in bed with [[Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]]. She has apparently been having a sexual relationship with Baltar and possibly Six as well.
*In the Cylon control room, Caprica-Six questions Three about her bad dreams. Caprica Six asks if the dreams are about Baltar. Three indicates otherwise, but does not elaborate.
*Three gives a [[Cylon Centurion]] orders to shoot her, and then delete any information regarding the incident. The Centurion obeys and shoots her in the head. In the moments before she is downloaded, she experiences images from her dream mixed in with memories from New Caprica and other more cryptic scenes.
*Three awakes in a [[Cylon rebirthing tank]] where a worried Caprica-Six tries to help her recover. Three tells her, "There's something beautiful, miraculous between life and death."

== Questions ==
*Were the Admiralty's fears valid, or was the Cylon force that destroyed the Colonies built up just since that mission?
*Did Bulldog know of or see other human prisoners during his three years of captivity?
*How was Bulldog directed to the precise location of the fleet?
*What class of battlestar does ''[[Valkyrie]]'' belong to?
*Why would a "Stealth Ship" in enemy territory break radio silence?
*Was ''[[Valkyrie]]''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s mission the only one the admiralty undertook or were there others?
*Was [[Laura Roslin]] right in speculating that the admiralty might have sent ''[[Valkyrie]]'' in order to provoke a war?
*Why did the Cylons have one craft jump in and fire on the stealth star and then jump out, then sending two more ships to finish the attack?
*Who were the five white-robed figures [[Three]] saw in her vision before downloading? Are they related to the Original Series's [[Beings of Light]]? Could they represent the mysterious "Final Five" Cylons?
*Were the Cylons on the baseship where Bulldog was held actually sick?
*Does Bulldog have information regarding the other humanoid Cylon models that nothing is known of?
*How did Baltar's status change from torturee in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" to an apparent sexual relationship with [[Caprica Six]] and [[Number Three]]?
* Was Adama's whole command staff transferred from the ''[[Valkyrie]] ''to ''[[Galactica]]'' after the failure of the recon mission?
*Why did Number three go through all the trouble to program the Centurion to erase its memory once it shot her? Was she afraid of being 'boxed' by the other Cylons for reasons of insanity or because it would do some sort of damage on the Centurion once its processed the kill?
*If Adama was truly responsible for the destruction of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], was this why the Cylons assigned numerous [[Cylon agent]]s to it ([[Sharon Valerii]] and [[Number Five]])?
*If the flashback where [[Bulldog]] kills a copy of [[Number Three]] is true, then does that mean that the virus first shown in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" is even more widespread amongst the Cylons?

== Analysis ==
*Adama and Roslin know each other well enough by now to tell when the other is lying, or is not fooled by a lie, even when others around can't. Roslin has always been the better of the two in this ability, as early as revealing Adama's initial ruse about the location of [[Earth]] ([[Miniseries]]).
*At the end of the episode, [[Saul Tigh]] appears to be attempting to try and deal with his guilt over his wife, but he does not seem to want his job as XO back, at least not any time soon.
*Adama's feelings of guilt over his actions during ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' mission seem to shed new light on the motivation for his speech at ''[[Galactica]]'s'' decomissioning ceremony at the begining of the series. Also, they explain his near-monomania with safeguarding and/or rescuing those under his command or protection.
*The Cylons seem to have been able to detect and destroy The [[Stealth Star]] that had only entered two kilometers into their space. This seems suspicious given the fact that they were unable to detect the [[Blackbird]], presumably a far less sophisticated design. Either the Cylons had more advanced detection equipment on the [[Armistice Line]], or they had advance knowledge of Bulldog's mission.
**It is only speculation that the Blackbird's stealth capabilities were less effective than those of the Stealth Star. The reason that the Blackbird went undetected by the Cylons is that its hull, at Helo's suggestion, was made of carbon composite. There is no way of knowing whether or not this was true of the Stealth Star.
***In addition, the Cylons near the [[Armistice Line]] would have known to look for stealth ships, as they probably suspected that the Colonial fleet would try to gain intel on Cylon military status. After the destruction of the colonies, it is unlikely that the Cylons believed that the Colonials were still in possession of any kind of stealth fighter and would not attempt to detect one.
***The fact that the Cylons expected penetration by stealth ships suggests that they may have done their share of Armistice Line violation.
****We know that the cylons violated the armistice line (assuming the treaty wasn't one-sided); there were cylon agents buzzing around the colonies at that time. The Colonial intent was to provoke the cylons; sending a stealth ship wouldn't do that. Notice that Bulldog had open comm channels and an active DRADIS during the sequence; this would have made the stealth ship visible to the Cylons. Presumably, they intended to be seen, but at the first sign of trouble, go silent.
**Bulldog was communicating to the Valkyrie before being attacked. The Cylons may have been able to detect this radiation and fire at the source of it.
**It is possible that the [[Stealth Star]] had a transponder beacon which allowed the [[Valkyrie]] to track and target it, whereas the [[Blackbird]] most likely did not have a transponder installed at time of it's first flight.
*Bulldog's story is even less believable given the fact that it took Kara Thrace several hours to gut a [[Raider]] and learn how to fly it. Granted, the Raider Kara captured was damaged, but it would still have taken Bulldog some time to adapt the raider for his own use.
**As the episode implies that Bulldog was deliberately released by the Cylons in an effort to direct his anger towards Adama, it is possible that the Cylons allowed Bulldog to gain a working knowledge of the raider.
*Bulldog probably could have stolen a Heavy Raider, which unlike the light versions seems to have a crew compartment and perhaps piloting controls, but then the production crew couldn't have re-used the captured-Raider prop from "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]" on the flight deck set.
*Kara Thrace going to Tigh with her findings is an acknowledgment of their shared semi-pariah status and the connection that was shown in "[[Collaborators]]" for the first time.
*The last two scenes of "Hero" appear to have been edited to ensure that the final scene was with Adama and Tigh. Right after the celebration scene, Adama is seen giving Bulldog a new uniform, but Adama is wearing his everyday uniform. In the final scene with Tigh, Adama is wearing his dress grays from the celebration. It appears at the very least, the two scenes were in reverse order, meaning the episode originally ended with Adama giving Bulldog his new uniform.
*During her non-corporeal limbo between death and download, Three finds herself reliving a mismash of memories from her various lives, including her final moments during "[[Downloaded]]" before her death, her discovery of Hera on New Caprica ("[[Exodus, Part II]]"), and also a memory we do not know her to have experienced: the opera house revealed to Baltar by his internal Six during the final moments of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]".
**This sequence, as well as this episode as a whole, showcases a number of fundamental BSG leitmotivs that have had little to no exposure in their original form since the end of season one/beginning of season two. The sound, as well as the imagery, reminds us that we've seen the opera house before, and the associated musical themes will likely help elucidate the symbolism behind the two visions.
*Three's flashbacks after being shot by the centurion indicate that she is the same individual who was killed on Caprica by [[Caprica-Six]] in "[[Downloaded]]" and who found Hera in "[[Exodus, Part II]]". It is of course possible that some of these recollections are the result of memory-sharing rather than direct experience.
**If she is the same Three that died on Caprica, that leaves the question how it can be that she didn't get the Opera House experience on her first death, even though she was stuck in limbo for thirty-six hours because of the massive casualties at the cafe in [[Downloaded]]. It is plausible that this Three wanted to die because she'd never experienced death before.
***It is also plausible that God is only just now trying to tell her something. The opera house may act as a cue, a signal sent from God that facilitates reflection on one's own destiny at a pivotal point in their existence, when it is no longer acceptable to ignore their role in God's plan out of arrogance or inconvenience (Baltar, "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" ), or because it seems a contradiction of the identity they'd formed by refusing to question their fate (Three, from the final days of the Occupation through "Hero"). In both cases, the opera house is revealed to a soul straddling the line between life and death, both in a physical and spiritual sense, and it is perhaps this balance that can uniquely invoke the presence of God, and guide the chosen instruments towards their intended destiny.
****It is interesting to note the central role Hera plays in both of the visions that bring us to the opera house.
*There's at least [[Stoffa|one other doctor]] of some kind in the fleet, because Cottle instructs Bulldog to report to him.
**This doctor is probably a psychotherapist that specializes in some sort of mental trama issues. Considering that Bulldog was in captivity for such a long time, and his breakdown while attacking Adama, at the very least, Bulldog will need a counselor to help him work through all of the emotional and mental scars that he's endured. Cottle had already confirmed that Bulldog was generally well cared for, physically, by the Cylons.
*Based on the Raider's apparently staged attack, the Cylons appear to know the current location of the Fleet.
*It appears that the Admiralty transferred those directly involved with the mission to ''Galactica''. This is supported by Gaeta made a statement during the [[Mini-series|miniseries]] about serving with Adama for three years (prior to the attack), as well as Tigh's comment saying that the mission, "wasn't exactly a boon to [Adama's] career."

===Adama's Dossier===
Laura Roslin reviews a dossier prepared for her by [[Billy Keikeya|Billy]] on her first day aboard ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. It includes large photos of battlestar ''Galactica'', a photograph of the CIC crew of ''[[Valkyrie]]'', a (mostly illegible) certificate bearing [[Saul Tigh]]'s name, and a cursory biography of William Adama, reproduced in full below:

:'''Commander William Adama'''

:*Born H5/21290 and raised on the colony of [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], in [[Qualai]], a small coastal community
:*Mother, [[Evelyn Adama]], an accountant.
:*Father, [[Joseph Adama]], a prominent attorney who specialized in criminal defese and civil liberties.

:'''Military Service'''

:D6/21311 First commission, Battlestar Galactica, fighter squadron 
:E4/21312 Commendation for shooting down Cylon fighter in first combat mission. 
:D5/21314 Mustered out of service post-armistice 
:R6/21317 Served as Deck Hand in merchant fleet and as common […] aboard inter-colony tramp freighters 
:D1/21331 Recomissioned to Fleet 
:D6/21337 Major: Battlestar [[Atlantia (RDM)|Atlantia]] 
:R8/21341 Executive Officer: Battlestar [[Columbia (RDM)|Columbia]] 
:C2/21345 Commander: Battlestar Valkyrie 
:C2/21348 Commander: Battlestar Galactica

This provides some interesting information. The fields in the format X#/##### appear to be dates, with the five-digit string following the solidus apparently corresponding to the year. This corroborates various points of information supplied thus far:

* Adama's father was named Joseph ([[Hand of God]]), and was a civil rights attorney ("[[Litmus]]", "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]").
* In a [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Valley of Darkness|scene]] cut from "[[Valley of Darkness]]", it is noted that Adama joined the fleet toward the end of the war, and was attached to ''Galactica'' as a fighter pilot.
* Adama served on ''[[Atlantia (RDM)|Atlantia]]'' during his thousandth landing, which indicates that he was still a flight officer at that time ([[Act of Contrition]]). Given his rank of Major, he was likely the [[CAG]] on ''Atlantia''.
* The date of the [[Cimtar Peace Accord|Armistice]] is correct at 42 years before the present, as stated in the [[Miniseries]] and accounting for the passage of slightly over two years since that time.

The following can be deduced from this document:

* This episode marks the 45th anniversary of Adama's commissioning, which puts it in the year 21356, and makes Adama 66 years old.
* Adama spent three years in between being mustered out and finding a job on a tramp freighter. We may speculate that it was during this time that his relationship with first wife [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]] deteriorated.
* Adama spent a total of 14 years serving in the merchant fleet.
* Adama met Tigh roughly 30 years ago ([[Torn]]). That would be 21326, which correctly puts it in the middle of Adama's merchant fleet service.
* Adama was a major by the time he arranged for Tigh to be reinstated in the fleet ([[Scattered]]), which means that at least six years passed in between Adama's recomissioning and Tigh's.
* Ronald Moore stated in his [[Podcast:Scattered|podcast for "Scattered"]] that the flashback scenes in [[Scattered|that episode]] took place 20 years before that episode, or in 21334. In fact, they appear to span at least an eleven-year period between 21326 (Adama and Tigh's first meeting) to 21337 (Adama's promotion to Major).
* The first [[Colonial Day (holiday)|Colonial Day]], marking the unification of the Colonies, was probably in 21302. The one celebrated in "[[Colonial Day]]" was the 52nd, and it is now two years later.

If the five-digit string following the solidus is in fact the year, as seems inescapable based on the above, the letter-digit sequence before it must indicate the position in the year. There are 260 unique letter-digit sequences of that format, which may indicate a shorter year in the Colonial calendar (a year of twenty-six ten-day weeks?) However, what has been revealed about Colonial timekeeping is too incomplete to draw any conclusions.

It is astonishing to learn that the Colonials have (or believe they have) over 21,000 years of recorded history. By comparison, Pythia was said to have recorded her prophecies 3,600 years ago ([[The Hand of God]]) and the exodus from [[Kobol]] took place just 2,000 years ago. On [[Earth]], Human civilization is only about 6,000 years old.

Adama's resignation letter at the end of the episode appears to be dated in an entirely different format. It's difficult to read clearly, but it appears to be dated "27/89/9923".

== Notes ==
*In Adama's flashback, the admirals are wearing their decorations on their day uniforms. This contrasts with most Colonial Fleet officers shown thus far, who only wear their decorations on their dress uniform sash.

*Both [[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Sharon Agathon]] appear in this episode, but neither has any lines.

*In Number Three's dream, the door at which she is shot by the marines is labeled "End of Line". As well as being a metaphor for death, this is a statement repeated often by the Cylon [[Hybrid]].

*This episode shares some plot elements with the ''[[Wikipedia:Star Trek: The Next Generation|Star Trek: The Next Generation]]'' episode, "The Defector," written by RDM. Notably, it begins with a dramatic chase delivering a dubious ally into friendly hands that is later shown to be staged. Additionally, both episodes feature plots revolving around a contested border.

*Admiral William Adama names Major Lee Adama to succeed him as commander of ''Galactica'' in his resignation letter.

*The white figures briefly glimpsed by Number Three in her vision of the Opera House look very similar to the "[[Beings of Light]]" from the Original Series, particularly as they appeared in [[War of the Gods, Part II]]. They are seen in both this and that episode as figures in white hoods and robes with whited-out faces and black eyes.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

* '''[[Number Three]]''': (to [[Caprica Six]]) "There's something beautiful, miraculous between life and death."

* ''[[Bulldog]] calls on [[Saul Tigh]] at Saul's quarters:
:'''Tigh''': So ... drink?
:'''Bulldog''': You have no idea!
:'''Tigh''' (scowling, unseen): Yes, I do.

== Official Statements ==
*A video blog gives an insight to this episode during filming. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=videoBlog&vid=34824|title=Introducing Bulldog|date=2006-10-11|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=VID|language=}}</ref>

== Guest Stars ==
* [[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
*[[Carl Lumbly]] as Lt. [[Daniel Novacek]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[imdb:nm0447921|Barry Kennedy]] as Admiral [[Corman]]
* [[imdb:nm0461101|Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]] (credited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Armistice Line

2006-11-22T22:47:29Z

TaKometer: boomer's tour was 2 years, six and gaius were dating for about as long, too.

[[Image:3x8-Armistice-Line.jpg|thumb|right|The Armistice Line on ''Valkyrie's'' [[DRADIS]] ([[Hero]])]]
The '''Armistice Line''' is the border between Cylon and Colonial territories, drawn out by the [[Cimtar Peace Accords]]. The armistice line passes through star systems, near planets at points, and at times, breaching the armistice line proved to be tempting to some colonists for the purposes of resource exploitation.

One year prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], Commander [[William Adama]] of [[battlestar (RDM)|battlestar]] ''[[Valkyrie]]'' was ordered by Admiral [[Corman]] on a secret mission to reconnoiter [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] space in order to evaluate the scope of their potential military operations. To do so, Adama sent Lieutenant [[Daniel Novacek]] in a [[Stealth Star|stealth ship]] over the Armistice Line, where Novacek was intercepted by a lone, unidentified enemy transient.

In a vain attempt to cover up the trespass, Adama fired a ship-to-ship missile at the now-stricken stealth craft, destroying it. Unbeknownst to the Commander, Novacek had managed to eject from the craft prior to its destruction and was subsequently captured by the Cylons.

Up until the time of Novacek's return after the [[Second Exodus]], and resulting interactions with [[Saul Tigh]] and President [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]], Adama had believed that this trespass led to the Cylon attack against the Colonies ([[Hero]]).

[[Cylon agent]]s had been violating the Armistice Line for some time prior to Adama's transgression.

==See Also==
*[[Armistice Station]]

==External links==
* [[Wikipedia:Korean Demilitarized Zone|Korean Demilitarized Zone]] on [[Wikipedia:Main Page|Wikipedia]]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Places]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Stealthstar

2006-11-22T22:26:45Z

TaKometer:

{{Ship Data
| image= 3x8-Stealth-Star-7746VA.jpg
| title= Stealth Star (7746VA)
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl=
| crew= 1 pilot
| role= Stealth infiltrator
| weapons=
| status= Destroyed
| img= Y
}}

'''Stealth Star''' 7746VA was a designation used by a Colonial stealth craft.

Lieutenant [[Daniel Novacek|Daniel "Bulldog" Novacek]] from [[battlestar (RDM)|battlestar]] ''[[Valkyrie]]'' piloted a stealth recon craft, designated ''Stealth Star'', across the [[Armistice Line]] in order to determine whether or not the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] were performing a military buildup ([[Hero]]).

During the mission, the Stealth Star had open comm channels and was actively monitoring DRADIS, perhaps in an attempt to lure the Cylons with the intent of going silent at the first sign of trouble. Its position was clearly visible to Valkyrie's DRADIS. However, the stealth star collided with a (presumably) cylon vessel which quickly jumped in and out, and was severely damaged before its stealth functions were used.

==Notes==
* The Stealth Star utilized the [[Viper Mark VII|Viper Mk VII]] cockpit for interior scenes.
* On ''Valkyrie'''s [[Dradis]], the ship was designated as "S-Star".

== See also ==
* [[Blackbird]], the first Colonial stealth craft introduced in the series.

== Related Imagery ==
<gallery>
Image:3x8-Stealth-Star-7746VA (2).jpg|Clearly showing the ship number as 7746VA
Image:3x8-Stealth-Star-Cockpit.jpg|Cockpit view
Image:3x8-Stealth-Star-Winged.jpg|Winged and spiraling out of control
</gallery>

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

User talk:Jxh487

2006-11-22T02:46:59Z

TaKometer: /* Antibody link */

== Welcome to Battlestar Wiki! ==
Welcome to the Wiki, Jxh487. Feel free to tell us about yourself on [[User:Jxh487|your user page]]. Before you get started on other edits, please read the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions]], which details the policies we use in editing pages (this differs from many other wikis in consistent use of phrasing, abbreviations, format, and the like).

Also, if you have any questions or suggestions you wish to offer, please feel free to do so either on your user talk page, the [[Battlestar Wiki:Wikipedian Quorum|Wikipedian Quorum]] or [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Administrators' noticeboard]]. Remember to sign your posts on any talk pages using four tildes (~~~~)! We look forward to your contributions to the community!
--[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:52, 20 August 2006 (CDT)

== Episode wiki changes ==

Those pages had a better visual impact when the episode info box and screen cap were aligned to the right of the page, opposite the contenets box. It now looks awkward and uncoventional and a little amateurish. The original format was superior. If anybody agrees could it be changed back? I wouldn't know how to so I'll leave that to someone else! :-)
:I noticed the same thing. Either change your skin (in your preferences) to BsgBook, or just wait until Shane updates the Myskin skin to handle the CSS correctly. There will be several templates that will need to be updated. Thanks for the heads up, though! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:23, 21 August 2006 (CDT)

== Other tidbits! ==

It was more intuitive when the search bar was below the Navigation panel, as this means you don't have to scroll down to quick search. The first characters of the headers on the panels for Projects and Community, respectively, are not capitalised. Headers should always be capitalised. Also the links bar on the left seems narrower than before, it looks squahed and clunky, the BSG logos before each header could do with a black blackgrnd, and my final nitpick is that these logos push the headers out of their centering, so perhaps a left-handed alignment would tidy it up! -) I'm sorry that I'm moaning rather than actively rectifying these faults, it's just that I havent a clue as to how to change things! Thanks, James.

== Recent contribution ==

Jxh487, a fellow contributor had to revise your last edit to the article, [[Occupation]]. Please refrain from entering [[Wikipedia:Patent nonsense|patent nonsense]] or commentary in an article body. If you care to experiment with the wiki, use the [[Sandbox]]. If you have a comment to an article, use its talk page, please. Thanks. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:01, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

== Signing your comments ==

Small tip. When signing don't write your name by hand, but use four tildes (~). That will automatically add your name and a timestamp. There is also a link for that under the edit box, that automatically adds the tildes --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:42, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:Thanks Serenity. ABC 123 Testing 123 [[User:Jxh487|Jxh487]] 18:54, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
::You can also use this button http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/skins/common/images/button_sig.png to automaticly add it to the end of your post. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:00, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

== {{tl|Character Data}} ==

You all set on how this works? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:45, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
*Yeah, thanks Shane. a quick question how do you upload images onto battlestar wiki? [[User:Jxh487|Jxh487]] 14:50, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
:You need to go to BS Wikimedia and register a seperate account there: http://media.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:52, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
::Once you have an account registered there (we usually use the same account name across the different wiki "domains")you can just click the [http://media.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Special:Upload Upload file] button in the toolbox on this wiki to take you to the appropriate upload page. It's kind of a pain, but once uploaded it can be accessed at ANY of the wikis around here. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:31, 11 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Thanks all, I will get registered [[User:Jxh487|Jxh487]] 15:53, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

==Antibody link==

Just in case you didn't see it on the other page, as a bio student you should probably know about this:

James, in case you don't see the antibody stuff, you should probably know about this:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/298/5601/2195
[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 04:07, 18 November 2006 (CST)
:Very interesting article about the catalysis of singlet oxygen to peroxide and ozone analogues, but how is this relevant. The 'antibody' debate was focused on resolving the discussion on the degradation analysis point for A measure of salvation, not about the generation of toxic products from non-specific antibodies! I believe this issue has been resolved by the administrators now, so I wouldn't worry, but thanks for trying to help :) Jxh487 15:16, 19 November 2006 (CST)
::I wasn't making a point about the discussion per se, just contesting your assertion that "antibodies do not have degradative functionality". Part of how they operate is by generating ROS and causing (albeit non-targetted) degradation. I'm not arguing for the episode, just pointing out that antibodies do degrade things. This might, hovewer, boil down to semantics; being a chemist when I think of ROS I think of oxidative cleavage of biomolecules, ozonolysis of cholesterols and fatty acids, etc, but I suppose you could make the argument that other, say, polymerization, reactions could be occurring, too, which wouldn't be "degradative" per se.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 20:46, 21 November 2006 (CST)

User talk:Jxh487

2006-11-22T02:39:26Z

TaKometer:

Armistice Line

2006-11-21T18:13:04Z

TaKometer:

[[Image:3x8-Armistice-Line.jpg|thumb|right|The Armistice Line on ''Valkyrie's'' [[DRADIS]] ([[Hero]])]]
The '''Armistice Line''' is the border between Cylon and Colonial territories, drawn out by the [[Cimtar Peace Accords]]. The armistice line passes through star systems, near planets at points, and at times, breaching the armistice line proved to be tempting to some colonists for the purposes of resource exploitation.

One year prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], Commander [[William Adama]] of [[battlestar (RDM)|battlestar]] ''[[Valkyrie]]'' was ordered by Admiral [[Corman]] on a secret mission to reconnoiter [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] space in order to evaluate the scope of their potential military operations. To do so, Adama sent Lieutenant [[Daniel Novacek]] in a [[Stealth Star|stealth ship]] over the Armistice Line, where Novacek was intercepted by a lone, unidentified enemy transient.

In a vain attempt to cover up the trespass, Adama fired a ship-to-ship missile at the now-stricken stealth craft, destroying it. Unbeknownst to the Commander, Novacek had managed to eject from the craft prior to its destruction and was subsequently captured by the Cylons.

Up until the time of Novacek's return after the [[Second Exodus]], and resulting interactions with [[Saul Tigh]] and President [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]], Adama had believed that this trespass led to the Cylon attack against the Colonies ([[Hero]]).

It is a matter of suspect that [[Cylon agent]]s had been violating the Armistice Line for some time prior to Adama's transgression.

==See Also==
*[[Armistice Station]]

==External links==
* [[Wikipedia:Korean Demilitarized Zone|Korean Demilitarized Zone]] on [[Wikipedia:Main Page|Wikipedia]]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Places]]
[[Category:RDM]]

User talk:Jxh487

2006-11-18T10:10:24Z

TaKometer:

User:Jxh487

2006-11-18T10:08:31Z

TaKometer: oops should put in "talk" page.

James, 3rd YR Human Biology Student at Uni of Birmingham, UK.
BSG, wot a surprise? I've never been obsessive with a T.V. show b4, but I reckon BSG is changing all that, it's sound as a pound!

User:Jxh487

2006-11-18T10:07:00Z

TaKometer:

James, 3rd YR Human Biology Student at Uni of Birmingham, UK.
BSG, wot a surprise? I've never been obsessive with a T.V. show b4, but I reckon BSG is changing all that, it's sound as a pound!

James, in case you don't see the antibody stuff, you should probably know about this:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/298/5601/2195
[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 04:07, 18 November 2006 (CST)

Talk:A Measure of Salvation/Archive 1

2006-11-18T10:03:05Z

TaKometer: /* The antibody degradative debate? */

==Picture?==
Is that picture from A Measure of Salvation? I don't remember Three and Six projecting themselves into a forest. The outfits they are wearing look like what they wore while torturing Baltar, so maybe it's from a deleted scene. Unless I've forgotten the scene for some reason, shouldn't we get a picture that actually came from the episode? -- [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:10, 11 November 2006 (CST)

== Some Poor Writing ==

Attention to detail is what has set BSG apart from so many other science-fiction shows - including Mr. Moore's Star Trek franchises. So I was very disappointed last night to see the sloppy errors piling up deep. I'd have to see the epsiode again to list them all, but mainly them problems concerned the virus.

The scene where potentially infected Galactica crew are "quarantined", together with Sharon, in a room with cold-storage plastic flaps was ridiculous.

It's preposterous to think that a cylon would casually betray his race for the anti-viral drug. He has no assurance that he won't be double-crossed, and he certainly - even after torture - wouldn't spell out the danger the virus poses to the cylon fleet. The audience isn't stupid and neither should the Galctica crew be. Seeing Lee with a dim little lightbulb over his head was just insulting to us all.

Past episodes have cleary shown that cylon ressurection occurs over significant distances, (greater than FTL jumps), and that calls into question the fundemental logistics of Adama's infection plan.

There would be no reason to jump Galactica itself, just sending one raptor with a cylon transponder and one infected cylon would have done the trick. (Nevermind the ease with which two cylon raiders almost instantly materialize into a whole cylon fleet with a resurrectionship conveniently in tow.)

The analysis on the episode summary page provides an excellent plot device allowing the raid to "succeed" thus justifying the major build-up of the two part story. In fact, it would have made a superb three part arc.

Hypothetical episode 3: Spend some realistic period of time finding a reasonably sized cylon fleet, infect them, virus begins spreading throughout area covered by the "local" resurrection ship. Cylons scramble to head off disease, Baltar gains points by developing Hera vaccine, cylons survive but with major "body-blow" giving Galactica and fleet some breathing room as they prepare to investigate the new lead to Earth.

Please don't get me wrong, I love this show, but sci-fi writing has always been done on the cheap and it make my eyes roll as I struggle to care about characters forced through non-sensical plot contortions. Please, Mr. Moore, DON'T LET BSG SINK TO THE SAME SAD FATE! I'm trusting that this was just a hiccup not a trend.

--[[User:IanB|IanB]] 13:08, 11 November 2006 (CST)

:In defense of the writers, I think you are wrong on two points:
:*Jumping Galactica makes sense. In [[Scar]] Cylon Raiders are engaging in skirmishes despite the absence of a resurrection ship. A Raptor is not a big enough threat to guarantee the presence of a resurrection ship. If one isn't in range by accident the Cylons would probably engage the Raptor without it and take a minor risk of permanently loosing a few raiders. And after [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]] the Cylons could be exspected to take a closer look to any unexpected Raptors with a Cylon transponder showing up. If they destroy it without a resurrection ship in range, the plans failed. Also Racetrack stated last episode that there is a shortage of Raptors in the fleet, noone is going to be eager to sacrifice one. Jumping Galactica ensures the Cylon require lots of forces, expect lot's of casualties and have a resurrection ship nearby, though I could have done without seeing it arrive on the battlefield, that's bad and inconsistent strategy, just to make sure the audience knows that it is in range.

:*There is probably a greater timespan between arrival of the patrol and that of the strikeforce then shown onscreen. Helo manipulates the oxygen-system after the jump, nevertheless the prisoners are already dead by the time the resurrection ship appears, indicating a least a few minutes have passed. The process can be seen in [[Flight of the Phoenix]] in the firing range scene (it's likely that Helo manipulated the same system).

:Two more plotholes I noticed: How do the Colonials know the Cylon supply lines? And given that they know Athena is immune because she's given birth to a hybrid child, they should wonder if there a more human-cylon hybrids. Even without knowing that Hera is still alive, if the massive Cylon effort to create hybrids resulted in creating at least one more hybrid the cylons would take a blow, but would not be exstinct. By the way it would be nice if we would hear something about these efforts. When Hera is shown for the first time in Cylon hands would be a good opportunity to close that chapter with a throwaway line that all these efforts were fruitless and stopped. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 11:24, 12 November 2006 (CST)

:: That's an interesting question -- one that I had myself, actually. Even if the effort didn't destroy the Cylon race (and I think that goal is overly optimistic), the virus would have given a serious blow to the Cylons, which would only serve to give the survivors more breathing room -- not to metion the increase in general morale, which the survivors seriously need after the farce at New Caprica. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:53, 12 November 2006 (CST)

I would have to agree the writing is poor. The series seems to be drifting from its roots and moving into the Hollywood PC political statement world. This season has already thrown in suicide bombing and implied it was acceptable, now there is a drift into making political statements about biological weapons (even though nuclear weapons have been freely used in the past.) It seems the writers are abandoning their science fiction roots and reaching to make their own personal social or political commentary. I do hope they get back to what I considered truly exceptional science fiction and stop these editorials.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 00:06, 12 November 2006 (CST)

Followup: According to and article on the Gateworld site ([http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/news/2006/10/season_three_ratings_slip_from_premiere.shtml]) the ratings have been slipping. As much as I truly love this show, I know my wife and I were both rather disgusted with the previous inclusion of the suicide bombers and now the “loss of humanity” references associated with the potential use of biological weapons. I have also heard complaints from two of our friends. I’m concerned that if this direction is continued it will not only ruin the show, it will also drive away viewers resulting in cancelation. As a long time science fiction fan (I even remember watching the original showings of Lost in Space and the first Star Trek) this has been my all time favorite show up until now. I would hate to see it have an early demise. As I mentioned above, I hope the writers can return to science fiction and entertainment.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 16:13, 12 November 2006 (CST)

:: Ratings have been slipping for ''SG-1'' and ''Atlantis'' as well; neither have the strong allegories to today's world, or the world of yesteryear for that matter. So I don't fully buy that there's a direct correlation between the creative direction BSG is going and the loss in viewership. Actually, one could probably argue (more successfully in my informed opinion) that the loss of ratings has more to do with Sci-Fi's scheduling decisions of breaking up the "Three Amigos" (''Stargate SG-1'', ''Stargate Atlantis'' and ''Battlestar Galactica''). As for the "loss of humanity" and suicide bombing themes, these have existed since the miniseries (Number Five's suicide bombing attempt in "[[Litmus]]" and Adama's speech in the miniseries and platitudes since then). -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:53, 12 November 2006 (CST)

::: In my very informed opinion, I would have to disagree on several points. While time slots and lineup can affect ratings, this usually is reflected in those of the shows with the weaker individual draw. Galactica is a cornerstone show which should draw up the ratings for those around it rather than have such a slump from a lineup change.

::: As for the previous Friday lineup, SG-1 ratings have steadily declined since the departure of Richard Dean Anderson. His departure also seemed to coincide with decline in the quality of the writing, though I’m not convinced the two were related rather than just coincidental. I have always believed the SG Atlantis was the weak link in that lineup and was carried by its position between SG-1 and BSG. As mentioned in the article I referenced above, Dr. Who, which leads into BSG, has had poor ratings this season. I believe the replacement of the very likable actor playing the title role, though consistent with the original BBC series, was a detriment to this series. In addition, this season’s writing has seemed less creative and entertaining. I greatly enjoyed their first season, but have found the current one to be rather dull and uninteresting. This certainly doesn’t help with the Galactica ratings, but I don’t believe it is the major factor in the decline.

::: The introduction of controversial topics into plot lines is often risky, particularly with science fiction which is typically considered pure escapism, even when it has a dark element like BSG (i.e.: The potential extermination of the human race and the continued threat from the Cylon.) Generally, Sci-Fi fans want to escape the real world and be entertained, not lectured on the writers’ political or social views of modern events. While any controversial topic is a risk, the introduction of those that are currently so polarizing is almost a guarantee of distancing a significant portion of your fan base.

::: You associated the bombing executed by a Cylon against those carried out by human suicide bombers. The two aren’t even remotely comparable. The first was not executed by a human, was not condoned by the humans, and was executed by an individual who (as already had been established) would be reborn (“downloaded”) into a new body, but as the same individual. The later was not only condoned by members of the upper human leadership, it was presented as a reasonable and acceptable approach in a given situation – a strong statement considering current world events. (As someone who’s nephew’s squad was attacked by the first suicide bomber in the gulf war, killing many of his squad just a few yards in front of him, I will freely admit to strong personal feelings in this matter. None the less, such controversial plot elements are invariably going to strongly offend a significant number of viewers.) The inference that the humans must limit their use of weapons against an enemy bent on the genocide of humanity is another PC component. Biological weapons as a plot element would have been better completely left out rather than used as a mechanism for additional political commentary. Remember, people watch for entertainment, not a reminder of current events or a thinly disguised lecture from Hollywood writers on their political and social opinions.

::: It is also rather telling that the ratings dropped rather significantly after the season 3 premiere (where suicide bombings by humans were introduced and condoned.) I’ll be interested in seeing how the ratings are affected after this latest one sided (read: “PC”) foray into contemporary controversial issues.

::: --[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 20:40, 12 November 2006 (CST)

::::I doubt that the suicide bombings in Occupation and Precipice were "condoned" by the show. Roslin didn't like them. Tigh, who planned them, thought they were bad. Even Baltar (who's been developing a conscience this season, thank the Gods) didn't like them. The first was a waste of life and counterproductive, causing a massive Cylon freakout that would have killed off Roslin, Zarek, Cally and a bunch of other people if the resistance hadn't saved them in the last minute. The second took down the power grid, which was more helpful, but it should be noted that in this case the bomber didn't kill any civilians, just herself and some Cylons. Tigh is still suffering because of the choices he made on New Caprica, and it doesn't look like he's coming out of those moral woods anytime soon.

::::Furthermore, I don't think the show has condemned the use of the Cylon virus, either. Roslin was all about it, after all, and I don't think there's anything less PC than a schoolteacher with a Messiah complex jonesing for some genocide. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 22:33, 12 November 2006 (CST)

:::: The use of nuclear weapons are logical in a space setting where great distances are involved and ships are heavily armoured. I would suspect, though, that a Presidential order would have been required to use nukes on the surface of a populated planet. The use of bio-weapons would probably have similiar restrictions because of their nature. I disagree that this show was PC. The weapon that the humans stumbled upon had a unique ability to wipe out the entire race of cyclons. To use it does carry far more ethical problems than simply using a nuke on a basestar. To use a rl analogy even during WWII the US would have been reluctant to have used a weapon that would have destroyed every Japanese person on the planet--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 09:39, 13 November 2006 (CST)

:::I think the show has been attacking issues that are important in our modern world since the beginning. Basic issues like balance of power, whether civilian government should stay in power during a massive crisis and war, religion in general, how to treat thouse different from yourselves (the show has been very ambivalent about killing Cylons, even though they are "just robots"), Baltar's initial refusal to believe in the gods or a god. It has even tackled thitngs like terrorism as a means to an end (Zarek was introduced at the beginning of the first season), abortion, infanticide, torture, treatment of prisoners. In all, it has been very current and politically involved since the beginning. However, with the first 4 episodes of season 3, it took a decidedly controversial and risky turn by depicting our favorite valiant and noble heros under brutal occupation. The writers have guts, and their ratings may have suffered, but they are doing the same thing they've been doing since the beginning of the show. It's just now a lot of poeple who watch TV don't agree with the particular direction the show took. However, even then, it left the viewer to choose for him or herself what to think, it was again ambivalent, which may be what makes it the best show on TV. No, the show will not supply you with easy answers and moral certitude to very important current questions. But that's a good thing, not a bad thing. --[[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 15:49, 13 November 2006 (EST)

::::I have to agree that it's been dealing with controversial issues from the start. One thing I've learned about BsG from watching it is that every time you think there's a line they won't cross, they seem to cross it. I think Yaneh has it right. Now, with them back in space, I do think it might turn more towards classic sci-fi, but I do agree this is not an unprecedented pattern. As for the writing on this particular episode, I think there were some odd references or slip-ups, which to my mind were made for the sole purpose of bailing Galactica out of the responsibility for a genocide. But I'm not going to judge the whole show at this point--it's WAY too early for that. I'm even more of a music buff than a TV buff, and I don't write off a band until there are 3 stinkers in a row. Let's wait and see if this a pattern before we write BsG off. --[[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]]

My additional $.02 - I'm going to have to disagree with my esteemed colleague from across the aisle, GeorgeW. I have no complaint with the political/moral questions that the writers have chosen to tackle this season. I do not believe that sci-fi was ever supposed to be purely escapist. Think of Frank Herbert's Dune which was essentially a political novel in sci-fi clothing. And the reason it is still regarded as one of the greatest sci-fi novels ever written was '''attention to detail!'''

What's made BSG so engaging has been its willingness to tackle the dark and gritty sides of a sci-fi story and thus make it far more real. This season's espisodes especially, have dug into tough questions about the justification of actions taken by a society being oppressed and even threatened with extinction - and kudos to Mr. Moore and Co. for going there! While they chose Nazi-esque imagery to illustrate the cylon occupation of New Caprica, the physical and psycological torture depicted there is exactly what Palestinians have been living with every day for decades, and I think it's extraordinary that this show has dared to ask American audiences to speculate how they would react if the same sort of conditions were imposed on us.

Consider Fox's 24, an unabashed advertisement for torture in the name of patriotism - nothing more than fearmongering to stir up a post-911 traumatised public into a state of jackboot-stamping, flag-waving paranoia, willing to hand over their civil liberties to facists. As grim as the first two episodes of this BSG season were, it was refreshing to see some element of pop culture actually asking viewers to stop and think - rather than just telling them what to believe.

If there's been a drop in ratings as a result of this storyline, it's only because so many Americans have let their capacity for critical thought atrophy over the last 40 years. (But just as likely, as was stated above, it was Sci-fi's choice to break up its powerhouse Friday night schedule. Frankly, canning Atlantis and popping the new Doctor Who episodes into the vacant slot would have been the prefered alternative.)

So back to my original point. With a wink and a nod to technobabble - the show's about homicidal robots for gosh sake - can we please just pay attention to the logical details. It's science-fiction, and we, the viewers, have already given the writers our willing suspension of disbelief. I'm just asking not to be abused with rediculous and downright stupid plot loopholes and gaffes in return for the privilege. I'm not writing off BSG either. Yet. But this last episode, which held such promise for having raised the stakes to the level of genocide, fell utterly flat - tripped up by the banana peels of sloppy writing.

--[[User:IanB|IanB]] 16:54, 14 November 2006 (CST)

In response to the original poster, I agree with you. This is not one of the show's shining moments.

--[[User:Crazyrabbits|Crazyrabbits]] 10:00, 15 November 2006 (CST)

== Explanations ==

A note about the Resurection ship jumping into the battle... it would seem that this is actually a good tactical move from the Cylon perspective. After Pegasus and Galactica easily destroyed the first resurrection ship and it's escorts, it would be prudent for the Cylons to keep the new ship with their fleet... even if this means taking it into battle with them. From their point of view it might look as if Galactica was trying to sucker the baseships away from the resurrection ship so the colonials could attack it. They've already used the "sucker" strategy a number of times, we could just be seeing a Cylon reaction to that strategy. Bringing the ship with them would negate such a threat as several basestars (more than enough to hold galactica off) would be able to cover for it.

As far as supply lines, it would figure that Galactica would know about this. Basic military strategy is to harass or at least keep an eye on enemy supply lines.

Also a note about the raptors and their missiles. The colonials may have found, after the battle over new caprica, that the missile attachments for the raptors were effective and could be adapted for other (combat) uses as well. It would also figure that after the loss of Pegasus, the colonials would be trying everything they could to increase firepower. This is probably just a jury-rig solution for increasing galactica's firepower.

: And all this has yet to be supported on screen. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:45, 13 November 2006 (CST)

::In [[The Captain's Hand]] Admiral Adama orders a recon of 5 Raptors, 2 of them SAR and 3 Escort. Though never seen onscreen heavily armed Raptors must have been around for some time. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 14:57, 13 November 2006 (CST)

: It is also distinctly possible that the weapon pods were not available until the arrival of the Pegasus. The cache at Ragnar Anchorage was likely primarily the weapons themselves, and not a supply of launchers or similar hardware. Since Galactica was slated for retirement and Pegasus was fully operational it is very likely the later ship was much better equipped with combat military hardware.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 22:30, 13 November 2006 (CST)

== About Gaeta ==
Looking at the question here:

: Why is Gaeta so surprised to hear that Baltar is alive, given the fact that he was actually there when D'Anna offered Baltar to be evacuated from New Caprica?

Er, well, the last time Gaeta saw Baltar, he gave him a gun and told him his last chance at redemption was to stop Three from setting off the nuke. Given that the nuke didn't go off, it isn't unreasonable to believe Baltar was successful, and that in succeeding he would have either died or been stranded on New Caprica. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 02:50, 13 November 2006 (CST)

:Gaeta knew that he was chummy with the Cylons. For him to convince them not to detonate the nuke (not hard, given that it would be at best a symbolic gesture) and still make it off the planet alive is well within the realm of possibility. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:56, 13 November 2006 (CST)

==A quick battle==

I was just wondering but is the skirmish with Galactica and the Basestars going to be added into the Second Cylon War or not? Sure it was short but it still had combat and casualties so it should be added to the list. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 19:54, 13 November 2006 (CST)
: Sure, I don't see why not. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:10, 13 November 2006 (CST)

==Baltar's Torture==

This is just pure speculation for speculation's sake, but I can't help thinking something more than Three being "touched" by Baltar's insane screaming of "don't stop..." "I believe in you" and "I love you with all my heart" (with internal Six's coaching) is going on in this scene. Three's indiference at the onset of her torturing, and her musing over which torture tool she should use doesnt seem like it could be changed or swayed by anything Baltar would say. i would say that judging from the torture tools they have, and their experiences on New Caprica at extracting information on detainees they know a little about torturing, it doesn't seem that Baltar saying anything he could to stop the torture would be unexpected. This leads me to wonder about exactly what he did say with the help of internal Six. perhaps those phrases, or the way he said it struck something in Three that only Cylons are aware of...maybe it means something that neither the Viewer or Baltar is aware of...I just find it hard to believe that Three, fully prepared for torture, even having fun picking what instrument to use...could be so easily moved from some snivelling bleating human saying he loves her with all his heart...Did Six give Baltar these phrases to say because she knew they'd strike a cord in a fellow Cylon, Three's reaction was quite a reaction, and then touching his lips like she couldn't believe those words came out of his mouth.....I don't know...just speculating.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 12:23, 14 November 2006 (CST)

--I wonder if the incongruity of those phrases to the situation of being tortured made Three wonder if Baltar was projecting. Now, if they've tortured other humans, they've probably seen people break with reality and shut down before, but perhaps that's a reaction beyond anything they've ever seen before. More like a Cylon being tortured? Is that what their instinct is, if they're in the same situation as Baltar? --[[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]]

==Note about the virus is incorrect==

The note:

Dr. Cottle identifies the disease as Lymphocytic encephalitis, however encephalitis is a condition (swelling of the brain) that can be caused by a pathogen, not a pathogen itself. More likely the pathogen is Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus.

When a doctor identifies a disease, he normally states the name of the disease, not the name of the virus. The note itself states that Doc Cottle identifies the "disease," not the pathogen. I think the note needs to be modified or deleted. --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 20:58, 13 November 2006 (CST)

== Accessing the "Hybrid?" ==

Is that what Athena is doing? Do we know that? It just sounds odd when phrased that way. [[User:Wldkt1|Wldkt1]] 02:56, 14 November 2006 (CST)

== The antibody degradative debate? ==

Ok, the latest addition to this point is the most scientifically accurate (antibodies do not have degradative functionality)! Read the wiki articles yourself to confirm and help you understand. On a more serious note if contributors (chiefly the second one on this topic) feel that an explanation or analysis point is incorrect or poorly explained than they need to do their homework before they dispute it and make up their own science. I know its only a fan wiki on battlestar but lets not plague our site with scientific inconsistencies like in 'A measure of Salvation' (Their science advisor must of been on holiday when this was written), after all we have luxury of being able to correct ourselves in hindsight ;) [[User:Jxh487|Jxh487]] 18:10, 15 November 2006 (CST)

:Sorry, but antibodies *do* have degradative capability, it has been known for at least 4 years now. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/298/5601/2195

:After spending over 25 years working in the clincial field (including being a lab director and now consultant), much of it involving research in imunology, immunohematology, genetics, and similar areas, I believe I know a bit more than what's presented in a few overly simplistic paragraphs in some an abbreviated article. I've dealt with far to many on the internet like yourself who reads a few sentences and brands themselves an expert. I came to this site because I believed it would be an enjoyable place to talk about my favorite show, but apparently this is just another one flled with those who prefer to hide behind their monitors and make snide comments. I'm not here to get into this type of garbage, so that's it, I'm done and out of here.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 01:07, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::There will always be people that claim to know all and others that really do belive that they know the right answer. The solution is just to provide loads of sourced for what you say. I dont know of your technical background but it would be very beneficial for all if you stayed and we can work this bit out. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:02, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::I'm sorry you feel that way, and I do have a solution to the above issue. It's a really simple solution, so here goes: all the science information needs to be sourced. I'm not talking about using links to Wikipedia (which we shouldn't really be sourcing from anyway), but I'm talking about adding sources from scientific journals and the like. References that GeorgeW should have access to, if I'm correct on that. Otherwise, I'm inclined to yank the entire thing since it isn't sourced at all. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:41, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::: I have cited an excellent reference on this topic in the article, a text that was very useful to me in my first undergrad year. It would be rather difficult to cite an appropriate journal (even a review) because the topic is very basic. In addition very few people would have access to any article cited without paying or having a subscription (personal or institutional), though most major libraries are bound to stock this text. My inclusion of Wiki articles as references were due to the fact that they provide a sound and simplistic (extremely accurate, believe it or not!) explanation of the relevant topics, as I assume most people reading these articles don't have a degree in a biological science. As for George W. Bush's 25 years of clinical experience (hmm?), I'd like to know if he's willing to dispute a scientific textbook! [[User:Jxh487|Jxh487]] 17:51, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::::Regardless of who is right or wrong (I'm NOT taking sides here), there shouldn't be debate in the analysis section. Currently it reads like:
::::A
:::::NOT (A)
::::::NOT (NOT (A))
::::Which is NOT (Encycopledic) to read. Pull out your sources, measure them (weigh them, whatever), and the winner takes all (and gets a quick blurb about A (or NOT (A)) in the "Analysis" section). Also, when citing your sources you may want to make use of the [[:Category:Citation templates|citation templates]] when citing books, journal articles, etc. That's what makes the cool little footnotes that show up in the "References" section. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 18:06, 16 November 2006 (CST)

== sickbay ship ==

William Adama says in the final scene:

:''Cottle's report from the virus: He thinks that it was simply an accidental contamination of the beacon '''we''' abandoned on '''the sickbay ship'''.''

*What is ''the sickbay ship''? When did this happen?
*Who does ''we'' refer to in this statement if Adama and Laura seem to believe that the beacon was left there as a ''signpost to earth''?

--[[User:Pix|Pix]] 01:35, 17 November 2006 (CST)

:From Sadgeezer's transcript:
:'''Adama, standing''': Cottle's report on the virus. He thinks that it was simply an accidental contamination of the beacon we abandoned on the sick baseship.

:'''Roslin''': Somebody sneezed, maybe.

:SO to the first, I think it was sick baseship, not sickbay ship. And the we refers to the Fleet collectively, but specifically to themselves (being the decisionmakers that decided to leave it onboard the baseship rather than bring it aboard and risk contamination). It sounds like they maybe wish they'd have picked it up now, but at least they're on the right track.
:If you check out the [[Podcast:A Measure of Salvation|podcast transcript]], you'll hear/see that actually as originally scripted they did pick up the beacon, and were going to chuck it through space at the Cylons, but the writers/producers decided that was lame and chose to leave it on the destroyed ship rather than have to deal with getting rid of it in a subsequent episode. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:46, 17 November 2006 (CST)

::Haha, I can't believe that Adama's strange speaking rhythm in that scene completely threw me off. The interpretation, ''sick baseship'' had never entered my mind, despite making considerably more sense. --[[User:Pix|Pix]] 19:42, 17 November 2006 (CST)

== Battle Article ==
Does the little skirmish deserve a "Battle of NCD2539" article? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 17:57, 17 November 2006 (CST)

== Virus "Discussion" ==
Wouldn't the majority of this "discussion" fit in the [[Life sciences in the Re-imagined Series
]] article? Would make the episode article much neater. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:10, 17 November 2006 (CST)

A Measure of Salvation

2006-11-18T09:57:54Z

TaKometer: /* Analysis */ moved to talk

{{Episode Data
| title= A Measure of Salvation
| image= Amos.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 7
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]]
| story=
| director= [[Bill Eagles]]
| production= 307
| rating=
| US airdate= November 10, 2006
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| podcast=Y
| population= 41,420
| prev= [[Torn]]
| next= [[Hero]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[Lee Adama|Apollo]] and [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] are dispatched to investigate the derelict baseship. They find the humanoid [[Cylons]] dying from a virulent disease, which inspires [[Lee Adama]] to come up with a desperate plan against their enemy.''

== Summary ==
=== On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' ===
*A boarding party comprising of [[Raptor]]s and [[Viper Mark VII|Vipers]] investigate the derelict [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]. Among the boarding party are [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] and [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]].
*Aboard the derelict, [[marines]] explore the corridors, finding the [[Cylon agent|Cylons]] dead. Athena attempts to access the derelict basestar's [[Hybrid]], but is unsuccessful.
*Some "skinjobs" around the control center revive and advise the boarding party of the situation regarding the probe and subsequent infection of the Cylons. One of the infected Cylons, a [[Number Eight]], addresses Athena as "traitor."
*The boarding party and prisoners are en route back to ''Galactica'' when the basestar self-destructs.
*''Galactica'' quarantines the boarding party and prisoners while Dr. [[Cottle]] finds out if the virus affects humans. The human members of the boarding party are cleared while Athena is ordered to stay put, as her blood work hasn't been done. [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] is infuriated, but wants to be notified as soon as her results are available.
*Dr. Cottle's investigation identifies [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|a virus]] that can be treated, but not cured for Cylons. [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]], [[William Adama|Admiral Adama]], Lee Adama, and Helo discuss the idea of taunting the vaccine in exchange for information. A [[Simon]] is brought before them, and informs them that the entire baseship was abandoned, because [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]] would infect the others. He also mentions that [[Gaius Baltar]] provided the information on the path to [[Earth]].
*Aboard ''[[Colonial One]]'', Lee Adama suggests a plan to eliminate the entire Cylon race by executing their prisoners in range of a [[Resurrection Ship]], where the downloaded consciousnesses would infect the remaining Cylons, because according to [[Simon]] the virus carries a bioelectric feedback component that could spread it even through the download process. Helo scoffs at the idea, considering it genocide.
*Aboard ''Galactica'', Athena finds she's immune because of antibodies generated within her body by carrying her daughter, [[Hera]]. Helo tells her of the Fleet's plan, and Athena understands.
*Admiral Adama shows slight dissent about the plan, indicating regulations that forbid him to proceed without presidential order. Despite the ethical ramifications, the President authorizes the biological attack.
*''Galactica'' jumps to a Cylon supply line, and launches Vipers and Raptors to attract the Cylon fleet. In the midst of this, Helo initiates a plan to thwart the execution, unplugging what looks like a standard power connector from an environmental control box.
*The Cylons jump into the area, with Resurrection Ship in tow. Adama orders the execution of the prisoners.
*Lee Adama leads a team to execute the prisoners, but finds that all the prisoners have been killed prior to the Resurrection Ship arriving. Adama orders a recall, and ''Galactica'' escapes without sustaining any major damage.
*Helo converses with Athena about his actions. He maintains that what he did was right, regardless of the consequences.
*Aboard ''Galactica'', Adama reports that the prisoners were suffocated due to a failure in the environmental controls. Roslin is quick to point out one or two might be responsible, but Adama closes the issue. Subsequently, the virus was most likely an accidental exposure, similar to one reported 3000 years ago. Adama points out that they're on the right track to Earth, but Roslin notes that the Cylons are on the right track as well.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===

*Aboard the bastestar, Baltar is being interrogated by Three and Caprica-Six, knowing about the beacon. Three and Caprica-Six imply that Baltar is connected to the virus and to Galactica. Baltar attempts to reconcile, only to be confronted by Centurions.
*In his "projection", his mental Six tells him to relax. Meanwhile, his body is being subjected to torture; Caprica Six is visibly disturbed by the torture and backs away.
*Baltar's torture continues as Three continues to interrogate Baltar regarding his supposed involvement with the virus. In his mind, he attemps to avert the pain by making love to his mental Six. Despite extreme pain, Baltar endures.

== Questions ==

* If [[Adama]] had brought the beacon aboard, what kind of information would it have given them about the location of Earth?
* Will [[Caprica-Six]] continue to stand by and permit Baltar's mistreatment at their hands?
* Where is Caprica-Six's own internal Baltar in all of this?
* Of the Cylons, which type told the basestar to self-destruct: The [[Hybrid]] or a [[Cylon agent]]? Considering her odd look after the destruction, might it have been [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]]?
* What kind of new start are the [[Cylon]]s planning for [[Earth]]? Just a new home planet, an attempt at human Cylon relations not tainted by the destruction of the Twelve Colonies, or something else?
* Why did an entire Cylon fleet (including a [[Resurrection Ship]]) jump to the encounter with ''Galactica''? Why was the [[Resurrection Ship]] not left behind somewhere else, as it was done in previous battles?
* Is D'Anna in love with Baltar?
* Why is [[Gaeta]] so surprised to hear that Baltar is alive, given the fact that he was actually there when D'Anna offered Baltar to be evacuated from New Caprica?
* Why does [[Simon]] so quickly claim science can not provide a solution to the infection?
* Why wasn't the execution squad in place and waiting with the prisoners so the plan could have been implemented in a timely manner?
* Since the plan was to execute the prisoners then jump away, why wasn't the jump drive already spun up and ready?
* The environmental controls seem to have been circumvented by [[Karl Agathon]] pulling a single plug. In a combat ship aren't there cascading fail safe systems to protect against such catastrophic failures from simple system malfunctions?
* In his discussion with [[Laura Roslin]] at the end of the episode, [[Admiral Adama]] is aware that sabotage was involved in the death of the Cylon prisoners, yet he states there will be no investigation. While he might be relieved that the plan wasn't carried out, wouldn't he be seriously concerned and want to aggressively pursue this matter?
*[[Baltar]] calls the [[Number Three]] torturing him "D'Anna". Is she, or at least does Baltar believe she is, the same Number 3 that was previously masquerading in the fleet as a reporter?
*Has Starbuck regained full flight status, because she tried to pull her life together at the end of "[[Torn]]", or does she participate in the battle due to a pressing need for pilots?
*Will there be any consequences of the sabotage for Helo and Athena from other crewmembers who may figure they are behind said sabotage? How will this affect Helo's reputation as a Cylon-lover or his credibility as XO?
*Since the Cylon prisoners died after the jump, did they download and spread the infection despite Helo's sabotage? Raiders generally operate within range of a Resurrection Ship and ''Galactica'' encountered two Raiders immediately after the jump.

== Analysis ==

*The Cylons could have cured themselves of this plague relatively quickly, if ''Galactica'' had succeeded in infecting them. It was quickly noted in the episode that Sharon was immune herself because fetal cells from [[Hera]] created effective antibodies against the virus. Hera is immune to the virus because she is a hybrid Human-Cylon. Now that she is in custody of the Cylons, Baltar could have utilized her immunity, as he previously did on Roslin, as capital to further his self-preservation amongst them.
**It can be assumed that executing the captured Cylons will send them back to the Resurrection ship, thus infecting the Cylon network.
**For the Cylons to study the plague they would have become infected themeselves, therefore, there was no way they could've tried to find a cure without potentially perishing
*The wider implications of such an event could have been religiously meaningful to the Cylons. Cylons have time and again shown religious deference by sometimes overlooking rational explanations. By saving the Cylon race Hera could have been elevated to messiah status, if her very creation has not already ordained her as one to the Cylons because their God proclaimed her creation.
**The presence of Hera is profound enough to the Cylons, which could be preventing them from seeing that Hera could be used as a tool.
*There is a fundamental flaw in the plan [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] develops: Even if the virus successfully infects the [[Resurrection Ship]], the other Cylons would isolate that individual ship, thus preventing a widespread epidemic. The resulting impact on the Cylon fleet would be no greater than previous destruction of the Resurrection Ship in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]".
**Apollo's plan is based on an account of the Cylon analysis of the threat; he could simply assume they are correct and that the virus can spread like wildfire from one Resurrection Ship to another.
**Also, by infecting a greater mass of ships, Galactica could board the ships, take much needed resources and more infected Cylons for further use as biological weapons.
*The science of the virus is somewhat questionable. While the biological aspect is sound, the existence of a "bioelectrical feedback component" appears to be technobabble. It would be impossible for a biological virus (i.e. a physical pathogen) to be transmitted by download to the Resurrection Ship. Such a feedback - scrambling the brainwave patterns - could disrupt the download process, but it is unclear how it could spread the virus itself on the other side. It simply may be a case of cylon superstition, which is known to happen from time to time.
**From Dr. Cottle's dialogue, it would appear that the problem lies with how the Cylons' immune systems reacts with the virus, more than the virus itself. If this is the case, it is likely that the immune system's reaction would carry though the download and possibly be passed to other Cylons througout the network.
**Conceptually, there is actually very little difference between a physical and a computer virus. Both usurp cell function. Moreover, if the virus is a retrovirus, its genome (be it physical or digital) will be transcribed into the cellular DNA, which might be downloaded to the Resurrection Ship.
*Dr. Cottle explains that Cylons carry antibodies that break down the RNA of his proposed vaccine. However antibodies have no degradative functionality, and only prime recognised pathogens for phagocytosis, though he may have simplified the explination. But as vaccines are developed from the pathonogenic organism (or a close relative) it would be impossible for the Cylons to carry antibodies specific for the vaccine RNA (or for the products it encodes) or otherwise they would be immune to the pathonogenic virus itself.
*Adama's reaction to the premature death of the prisoners is yet another example of what are simultaneously his greatest virtues and most glaring flaws - his dedication to those under his command, and his need to keep his conscience clear.
*In this episode, [[Raptors]] are shown loaded to the teeth with weapons systems. In the past ([[Miniseries]], [[The Hand of God]]), Raptors have rarely been depicted in actual combat, preferring instead to hang back while coordinating battlefield logistics. They have been shown armed in a few prior episodes ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], [[Fragged]]), but this is by far their most prominent combat role to date. The Raptors are using the external missile pods and cannons introduced in "Exodus, Part [[Exodus, Part I|I]] & [[Exodus, Part II|II]]" and engage in the same maneuver used to launch the decoy drones during the Battle of New Caprica.
*The genetic pool the Cylons were created from predates the human immunity to the plague from just a couple hundred years ago, yet the Cylons, even as a class of machines, are only 40 to 60 years old. This indicates another, non-Colonial, source for the DNA.
**The genetic pool need not be so old. Because humans had been completely immune to this virus for hundreds of years, the Cylons may have simply overlooked it while creating their biological models.
*It seems this virus could also be a fairly reliable (although not conclusive) litmus test to for Cylons in the Colonial Fleet.
*It seems reasonable to assume that if Baltar is not infected with the virus, he is not a Cylon, likewise for all members of the ''Galactica'' crew who boarded the baseship.
**Baltar was in an isolation suit the entire time he was on the basestar. Using standard biohazard procedures, he would have remained in the suit which would have been disinfected from the outside before he took it off.

== Notes ==
*[[Survivor count|Fleet population]] is 41,420. Barring any births, there is an unaccounted loss of at least two since "[[Torn]]".
*The story behind the Lion Nebula beacon and the virus may have been inspired by the lunar lander [[wikipedia:Surveyor 3|Surveyor 3]]. Before launching in 1967, its camera was accidentally contaminated by a common bacterium. When the camera was recovered by Apollo 12 astronauts, the microbes returned to life, having survived two and a half years of vacuum, radiation, and temperature extremes.
*This is the first episode in which [[Saul Tigh]] has not appeared, more than likely due to his promise to William Adama at the end of "Torn" after Adama's confrontation with both Tigh and Kara Thrace. Currently, the only characters to have appeared in every episode are [[Laura Roslin]] and [[William Adama]].
*Helo has been promoted to the rank of Captain, as evident in both dialogue and costuming.
*Starbuck appears to have returned to flight status following her decision to pull herself together at the end of "[[Torn]]".
*Dr. Cottle identifies the disease as [[Lymphocytic encephalitis]], however [[w:encephalitis|encephalitis]] is a condition (swelling of the brain) that can be caused by a pathogen, not a pathogen itself. More likely the pathogen is [[wikipedia:Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus|Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus]].
*In [[Podcast:A Measure of Salvation|his podcast]], Moore notes that this episode shares similarities to the ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: The Next Generation|Star Trek: The Next Generation]]'' episode, "[[MemoryAlpha:I, Borg|I, Borg]]", though he does not mention the episode by name. Moore also noted that this episode was brought up for discussion during the writer's meetings to discuss development of this episode, as "I, Borg" discussed using a lone [[MemoryAlpha:Hugh|Borg drone]] implanted with a computer virus to infect the [[MemoryAlpha:Borg|Borg collective]].
*The location in space of the attempted attack on the Cylons is designated "The Region of [[NCD2539]] Above/North."

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''On Colonial One'':
:'''Karl Agathon''': Genocide? So that's what we're about now?
:'''Lee Adama''': They're not human! They were built, not born. No fathers, no mothers, no sons, no daughters--
:'''Karl Agathon''': I ''had'' a daughter. I held her in my arms.

== Official Statements ==

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
* [[Rick Worthy]] as [[Simon]]
* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
* [[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
* [[imdb:nm0669826|Eileen Pedde]] as Sgt. [[Mathias]]
* [[imdb:nm0461101|Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]] (credited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Twelve Colonies of Kobol

2006-11-18T08:38:17Z

TaKometer: /* Tauron */

:''This article discusses the Twelve Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. See [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)]] for information on the Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]].''

{{RDM twelve colonies series}}

Approximately 2,000 years ago, twelve of the thirteen tribes of [[Kobol]] leave the planet due to an issue involving their [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|gods]], settling on worlds some distance away ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]). Their names and icons originally corresponded to the twelve signs of the ancient tribes, although these [[wikipedia:Zodiac|names]] drifted over time<ref>Flag matches with Colonies from "Encyclopedia Galactica." [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine]]. Feb./Mar. 2006: 50-55.</ref> ([[Home, Part II]]).

Although Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and President [[Laura Roslin]] mention leaving the solar system
<ref>The 2003 [[Video Game]] and the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] name the home system (or galaxy) for the Twelve Colonies as [[Cyrannus]]. However, since both the Video Game and Original Series material is of a [[Battlestar Wiki:Separate continuity|separate continuity]], its name for the system is questionable for the Re-imagined Series. In an early script of the miniseries, the Twelve Colonies were originally located on a single world - [[Kobol]]. However, this was later revised to twelve separate worlds, in keeping with the Original Series concept.</ref>, it is unclear whether all twelve colonies are orbiting a single star or what the name of this star might be . However, Caprica, Virgon, and Ragnar Anchorage are known to be within the same star system ([[Miniseries]]), and the existence of corporations with names such as [[intersun]] suggest that some colonies were in different star system(s).

The Colonies had approximately 20 billion inhabitants prior to the Cylon attack ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance|The Resistance]])<ref>In an early draft manuscript of the [[Miniseries]], Secretary [[Laura Roslin]] notes that the [[Colonial Ministry of Defense|Ministry of Defense]] conducts the government census, and had a count of 12 billion individuals. Saul Tigh's approximation in ''The Resistance'', as aired, should be taken as the correct value.</ref>.

[[Ronald D. Moore]] has suggested that the Colonies probably maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems, but it is unlikely that ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' will encounter them in the course of the series <ref>[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 Sourced from a January 30, 2005] blog entry by [[Ronald D. Moore]] on Sci-Fi.com.</ref>.

==Aerelon==
[[Image:ColonialColors7.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aerelon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Aries (constellation)|Aries]]

"Fifteen people died" when President [[Richard Adar]], for reasons unexplained, sent the [[Colonial Marine Corps|Marines]] to Aerelon ([[Water]]).

The mining colony of [[Troy]], destroyed in a cataclysmic explosion ([[Flesh and Bone]]) is located near Aerelon, and may have been operated by natives of that world. [[Troy]] was the alleged home of [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

The pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] team from Aerelon played against the [[Caprica Buccaneers]] in one of the last games before the Cylon attack. They apparently won ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).

A photo of a grief-stricken soldier staring out at the ruins of Aerelon's capital hangs behind President Roslin's desk and on the bulkhead of the pilot ready room on ''Galactica'' (titled [["Lest We Forget"]]). ''Galactica's ''pilots touch the photo for luck as they file past to the hangar.

===Natives===
*[[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] - ([[Cylon agent#Ron Moore elaborates on the twelve models|Falsified]]. Precise home given as the [[Troy]] mining colony)
*[[Sekou Hamilton]] (Presumably - editor of the ''Aerelon Gazette'')
*[[Socinus]]
*The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aerelon voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]])

===Publications===
*''[[Aerelon Gazette]]''

 

==Aquaria==
[[Image:ColonialColors12.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aquaria]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Aquarius (constellation)|Aquarius]])

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aquaria voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).
 

==Canceron==
[[Image:ColonialColors9.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Canceron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Cancer (constellation)|Cancer]]

*[[Robin Wenutu]] is the Canceron Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]].

 

==Caprica==
[[Image:ColonialColors3.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Caprica]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Capricornus|Capricornus]])

Caprica is a large blue-green planet, similar to Earth. Its largest population center is [[Caprica City]], which serves as the seat of all three branches of the Colonial [[Government]], making Caprica effectively the capital of the Twelve Colonies. Caprica City is surrounded by other small towns and hamlets, such as [[Oasis]]. Thus far, Caprica is the only planet of the Twelve Colonies that viewers have seen directly. The episode opening credits show Caprica City, as well as the nuclear bombing of Caprica itself.

Other major cities included [[Delphi]], famous for the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]] and also home to a large spaceport. During the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], the Cylons spared Delphi from nuclear bombardment in order to use it as a base of operations in their occupation of the planet. The human [[Caprica Resistance|resistance]] cell, led by [[Samuel Anders]], operates near Delphi.

Caprica is known for its fine Caprican cloth (which Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] wears), [[fumarella leaf]], [[Caprican Imperial|Caprican cigars]] and art.

A railway line can be seen below the balcony of Baltar's house on Caprica during "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]." What appear to be internal combustion engine powered vehicles, such as cars and trucks, are seen extensively in shots of Caprica.

===Natives===
*[[William Adama|William "Husker" Adama]].
*[[Caroline Adama]]
*[[Lee Adama|Lee "Apollo" Adama]].
*Lt. [[Zak Adama]]
*Doctor [[Gaius Baltar]] (Born on Sagittaron)
*[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] (Had an apartment in Delphi. Sky One sources state that she was born on Picon, but this this information is questionable).
*[[James McManus]] (Presumably - editor of the ''[[Caprican Times]]'')
*[[Aaron Doral]] (alleged home was in [[Oasis]])
*President [[Richard Adar]] (Presumably - according to background information from SkyOne he started his political career as the mayor of [[Caprica City]])

===Publications and Media===
*''[[Caprican Times]]''
*''[[Caprican Life]]''
*[[Caprica 5]]
*[[Channel 7 News]]

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Caprica Buccaneers]]

===See also===
* [[Unnamed Cities of Caprica]]
* [[Gup's Point]]
* [[Pilgrim Bay]]
* [[Caprica Beach]]

 

==Gemenon==
[[Image:ColonialColors5.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Gemenon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Gemini (constellation)|Gemini]]

Gemenon natives are known for their literal interpretations of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] ([[Fragged]]). Despite federal laws guaranteeing of reproductive freedom, the population of Gemenon was apparently very strongly opposed to abortion. Traditional Gemenese law declares children to be the property of their parents ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

Gemenon is home to the Kobol College School of Public Relations ([[Miniseries]]). One of the last ever pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] games was held on Gemenon just prior to the [[Cylon attack]] on the Colonies ([[Miniseries]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Sarah Porter]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*Corporal [[Venner]]
*Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Rya Kibby]]
 

==Leonis==
[[Image:ColonialColors8.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Leonis]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Leo (constellation)|Leo]]

[[Safiya Sanne]] is identified as both Leonis's and [[#Picon|Picon]]'s representative on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. See his article for details.

 

==Libra==
[[Image:ColonialColors11.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Libra]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Libra (constellation)|Libra]]

''Practically no information has been given yet regarding the colony corresponding to Libra. Its colonial-era name also has yet to be confirmed.''

The ''[[Space Park]]'', a passenger liner in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]], is of Libran registry.

 

==Picon==
[[Image:ColonialColors2.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Picon]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Pisces (constellation)|Pisces]])

Picon is the location for the [[Picon Fleet Headquarters|Colonial Fleet Headquarters]] ([[Miniseries]]). The colony came under heavy attack during the early stages of the Cylon attack. President [[Richard Adar]] offered a complete and unconditional surrender to the Cylons after Picon was nuked; this overture was ignored ([[Miniseries]], [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)|deleted scene]]).

[[Ellen Tigh]] claimed to be at the airport on Picon, "on her way home" when the attack started, and that some "unknown hero" ensured she was put on the last ship to get off the planet ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Safiya Sanne]], [[Quorum of Twelve]] (Although see his article for some confusion on the matter)
* [[Playa Palacios]], Veteran columnist from the ''Picon Star Tribune'' (presumed a resident)
* [[Asha Janik]], Cylon sympathizer, member of the "[[Demand Peace]]" movement

===Publications===
*''[[Picon Star Tribune]]''

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Picon Panthers]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

 

==Sagittaron==
[[Image:ColonialColors10.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Sagittaron]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Sagittarius (constellation)|Sagittarius]])

Sagittaron endured centuries of exploitation at the hands of the other Colonies ([[Bastille Day]]), so much so that even after [[Articles of Colonization|unified Colonial rule]], [[Tom Zarek]] led an organized series of terrorist acts against the established government there, many years before the fall of the Colonies. One of these acts include blowing up a government building ([[Bastille Day]]). Under Sagittarian penal law, convicted felons lose their citizenship, but have it automatically reinstated after they finish serving their sentences. This included the right to vote and to stand for election ([[Colonial Day]]).

As of the episode "[[33]]," 5,251 natives of the planet resided in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]].

===Natives===
*Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*Representative [[Tom Zarek]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*[[Valance]] ([[Colonial Day]])
*[[Leon Grimes]] ([[Colonial Day]])

===Note===
Sagittaron is referred to as "Sagittar'''i'''on" in the [[Miniseries]], but this changed to "Sagittaron" when the regular series began.

 

==Scorpia==
[[Image:ColonialColors6.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Scorpia]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpius]]

Home to the [[Scorpian Fleet Shipyards]], where battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' was docked during the Cylon attack. Scorpia native [[Eladio Puasha]] serves as its Quorum delegate.

 

==Tauron==
[[Image:ColonialColors4.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Tauron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Taurus (constellation)|Taurus]]

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Tauron votes for [[Gaius Baltar]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).

Tauron was reputed to be somewhat of a rogue colony, often disobeying directives decided by the colonies, and operated tyllium mining facilities close to the [[armistice line]].

In a May 31st, 2006 [http://media23a.libsyn.com/a3eaeJh2aHaXeWN7Z3RppGuolHWY/podcasts/podcast411/411_060531.mp3 interview], [[Ron Moore]] stated that he toyed with the idea of making Tauron a [[Wikipedia:matriarchy|matriarchy]], unlike the gender-blind society of the other Colonies (prominently Caprica) we've seen so far.

===Natives===
*Admiral [[Helena Cain]]

 

==Virgon==
[[Image:ColonialColors1.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Virgon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Virgo (constellation)|Virgo]]

[[Marshall Bagot]] is the Virgon Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. In public ceremony, the Virgon delegate wears a light blue sash.

Soon after the Cylon attack began, the bulk of the spacewide offensive by the Colonials began "shaping up" over the planet. The battle ostensibly ends with the destruction of battlestar ''[[Atlantia]]'' and the death of Admiral [[Nagala]].

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z|*]]
[[Category:Planets|*]]
[[Category:Twelve Colonies|*]]
[[Category:RDM|*]]

[[de:Die Zwölf Kolonien (RDM)]]
[[es:Las Doce Colonias (RDM)]]

The Twelve Colonies of Kobol

2006-11-18T08:36:42Z

TaKometer:

:''This article discusses the Twelve Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. See [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)]] for information on the Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]].''

{{RDM twelve colonies series}}

Approximately 2,000 years ago, twelve of the thirteen tribes of [[Kobol]] leave the planet due to an issue involving their [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|gods]], settling on worlds some distance away ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]). Their names and icons originally corresponded to the twelve signs of the ancient tribes, although these [[wikipedia:Zodiac|names]] drifted over time<ref>Flag matches with Colonies from "Encyclopedia Galactica." [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine]]. Feb./Mar. 2006: 50-55.</ref> ([[Home, Part II]]).

Although Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and President [[Laura Roslin]] mention leaving the solar system
<ref>The 2003 [[Video Game]] and the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] name the home system (or galaxy) for the Twelve Colonies as [[Cyrannus]]. However, since both the Video Game and Original Series material is of a [[Battlestar Wiki:Separate continuity|separate continuity]], its name for the system is questionable for the Re-imagined Series. In an early script of the miniseries, the Twelve Colonies were originally located on a single world - [[Kobol]]. However, this was later revised to twelve separate worlds, in keeping with the Original Series concept.</ref>, it is unclear whether all twelve colonies are orbiting a single star or what the name of this star might be . However, Caprica, Virgon, and Ragnar Anchorage are known to be within the same star system ([[Miniseries]]), and the existence of corporations with names such as [[intersun]] suggest that some colonies were in different star system(s).

The Colonies had approximately 20 billion inhabitants prior to the Cylon attack ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance|The Resistance]])<ref>In an early draft manuscript of the [[Miniseries]], Secretary [[Laura Roslin]] notes that the [[Colonial Ministry of Defense|Ministry of Defense]] conducts the government census, and had a count of 12 billion individuals. Saul Tigh's approximation in ''The Resistance'', as aired, should be taken as the correct value.</ref>.

[[Ronald D. Moore]] has suggested that the Colonies probably maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems, but it is unlikely that ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' will encounter them in the course of the series <ref>[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 Sourced from a January 30, 2005] blog entry by [[Ronald D. Moore]] on Sci-Fi.com.</ref>.

==Aerelon==
[[Image:ColonialColors7.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aerelon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Aries (constellation)|Aries]]

"Fifteen people died" when President [[Richard Adar]], for reasons unexplained, sent the [[Colonial Marine Corps|Marines]] to Aerelon ([[Water]]).

The mining colony of [[Troy]], destroyed in a cataclysmic explosion ([[Flesh and Bone]]) is located near Aerelon, and may have been operated by natives of that world. [[Troy]] was the alleged home of [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

The pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] team from Aerelon played against the [[Caprica Buccaneers]] in one of the last games before the Cylon attack. They apparently won ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).

A photo of a grief-stricken soldier staring out at the ruins of Aerelon's capital hangs behind President Roslin's desk and on the bulkhead of the pilot ready room on ''Galactica'' (titled [["Lest We Forget"]]). ''Galactica's ''pilots touch the photo for luck as they file past to the hangar.

===Natives===
*[[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] - ([[Cylon agent#Ron Moore elaborates on the twelve models|Falsified]]. Precise home given as the [[Troy]] mining colony)
*[[Sekou Hamilton]] (Presumably - editor of the ''Aerelon Gazette'')
*[[Socinus]]
*The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aerelon voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]])

===Publications===
*''[[Aerelon Gazette]]''

 

==Aquaria==
[[Image:ColonialColors12.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aquaria]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Aquarius (constellation)|Aquarius]])

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aquaria voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).
 

==Canceron==
[[Image:ColonialColors9.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Canceron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Cancer (constellation)|Cancer]]

*[[Robin Wenutu]] is the Canceron Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]].

 

==Caprica==
[[Image:ColonialColors3.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Caprica]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Capricornus|Capricornus]])

Caprica is a large blue-green planet, similar to Earth. Its largest population center is [[Caprica City]], which serves as the seat of all three branches of the Colonial [[Government]], making Caprica effectively the capital of the Twelve Colonies. Caprica City is surrounded by other small towns and hamlets, such as [[Oasis]]. Thus far, Caprica is the only planet of the Twelve Colonies that viewers have seen directly. The episode opening credits show Caprica City, as well as the nuclear bombing of Caprica itself.

Other major cities included [[Delphi]], famous for the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]] and also home to a large spaceport. During the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], the Cylons spared Delphi from nuclear bombardment in order to use it as a base of operations in their occupation of the planet. The human [[Caprica Resistance|resistance]] cell, led by [[Samuel Anders]], operates near Delphi.

Caprica is known for its fine Caprican cloth (which Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] wears), [[fumarella leaf]], [[Caprican Imperial|Caprican cigars]] and art.

A railway line can be seen below the balcony of Baltar's house on Caprica during "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]." What appear to be internal combustion engine powered vehicles, such as cars and trucks, are seen extensively in shots of Caprica.

===Natives===
*[[William Adama|William "Husker" Adama]].
*[[Caroline Adama]]
*[[Lee Adama|Lee "Apollo" Adama]].
*Lt. [[Zak Adama]]
*Doctor [[Gaius Baltar]] (Born on Sagittaron)
*[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] (Had an apartment in Delphi. Sky One sources state that she was born on Picon, but this this information is questionable).
*[[James McManus]] (Presumably - editor of the ''[[Caprican Times]]'')
*[[Aaron Doral]] (alleged home was in [[Oasis]])
*President [[Richard Adar]] (Presumably - according to background information from SkyOne he started his political career as the mayor of [[Caprica City]])

===Publications and Media===
*''[[Caprican Times]]''
*''[[Caprican Life]]''
*[[Caprica 5]]
*[[Channel 7 News]]

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Caprica Buccaneers]]

===See also===
* [[Unnamed Cities of Caprica]]
* [[Gup's Point]]
* [[Pilgrim Bay]]
* [[Caprica Beach]]

 

==Gemenon==
[[Image:ColonialColors5.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Gemenon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Gemini (constellation)|Gemini]]

Gemenon natives are known for their literal interpretations of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] ([[Fragged]]). Despite federal laws guaranteeing of reproductive freedom, the population of Gemenon was apparently very strongly opposed to abortion. Traditional Gemenese law declares children to be the property of their parents ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

Gemenon is home to the Kobol College School of Public Relations ([[Miniseries]]). One of the last ever pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] games was held on Gemenon just prior to the [[Cylon attack]] on the Colonies ([[Miniseries]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Sarah Porter]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*Corporal [[Venner]]
*Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Rya Kibby]]
 

==Leonis==
[[Image:ColonialColors8.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Leonis]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Leo (constellation)|Leo]]

[[Safiya Sanne]] is identified as both Leonis's and [[#Picon|Picon]]'s representative on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. See his article for details.

 

==Libra==
[[Image:ColonialColors11.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Libra]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Libra (constellation)|Libra]]

''Practically no information has been given yet regarding the colony corresponding to Libra. Its colonial-era name also has yet to be confirmed.''

The ''[[Space Park]]'', a passenger liner in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]], is of Libran registry.

 

==Picon==
[[Image:ColonialColors2.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Picon]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Pisces (constellation)|Pisces]])

Picon is the location for the [[Picon Fleet Headquarters|Colonial Fleet Headquarters]] ([[Miniseries]]). The colony came under heavy attack during the early stages of the Cylon attack. President [[Richard Adar]] offered a complete and unconditional surrender to the Cylons after Picon was nuked; this overture was ignored ([[Miniseries]], [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)|deleted scene]]).

[[Ellen Tigh]] claimed to be at the airport on Picon, "on her way home" when the attack started, and that some "unknown hero" ensured she was put on the last ship to get off the planet ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Safiya Sanne]], [[Quorum of Twelve]] (Although see his article for some confusion on the matter)
* [[Playa Palacios]], Veteran columnist from the ''Picon Star Tribune'' (presumed a resident)
* [[Asha Janik]], Cylon sympathizer, member of the "[[Demand Peace]]" movement

===Publications===
*''[[Picon Star Tribune]]''

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Picon Panthers]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

 

==Sagittaron==
[[Image:ColonialColors10.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Sagittaron]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Sagittarius (constellation)|Sagittarius]])

Sagittaron endured centuries of exploitation at the hands of the other Colonies ([[Bastille Day]]), so much so that even after [[Articles of Colonization|unified Colonial rule]], [[Tom Zarek]] led an organized series of terrorist acts against the established government there, many years before the fall of the Colonies. One of these acts include blowing up a government building ([[Bastille Day]]). Under Sagittarian penal law, convicted felons lose their citizenship, but have it automatically reinstated after they finish serving their sentences. This included the right to vote and to stand for election ([[Colonial Day]]).

As of the episode "[[33]]," 5,251 natives of the planet resided in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]].

===Natives===
*Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*Representative [[Tom Zarek]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*[[Valance]] ([[Colonial Day]])
*[[Leon Grimes]] ([[Colonial Day]])

===Note===
Sagittaron is referred to as "Sagittar'''i'''on" in the [[Miniseries]], but this changed to "Sagittaron" when the regular series began.

 

==Scorpia==
[[Image:ColonialColors6.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Scorpia]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpius]]

Home to the [[Scorpian Fleet Shipyards]], where battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' was docked during the Cylon attack. Scorpia native [[Eladio Puasha]] serves as its Quorum delegate.

 

==Tauron==
[[Image:ColonialColors4.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Tauron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Taurus (constellation)|Taurus]]

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Tauron votes for [[Gaius Baltar]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).

In a May 31st, 2006 [http://media23a.libsyn.com/a3eaeJh2aHaXeWN7Z3RppGuolHWY/podcasts/podcast411/411_060531.mp3 interview], [[Ron Moore]] stated that he toyed with the idea of making Tauron a [[Wikipedia:matriarchy|matriarchy]], unlike the gender-blind society of the other Colonies (prominently Caprica) we've seen so far.

===Natives===
*Admiral [[Helena Cain]]

 

==Virgon==
[[Image:ColonialColors1.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Virgon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Virgo (constellation)|Virgo]]

[[Marshall Bagot]] is the Virgon Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. In public ceremony, the Virgon delegate wears a light blue sash.

Soon after the Cylon attack began, the bulk of the spacewide offensive by the Colonials began "shaping up" over the planet. The battle ostensibly ends with the destruction of battlestar ''[[Atlantia]]'' and the death of Admiral [[Nagala]].

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z|*]]
[[Category:Planets|*]]
[[Category:Twelve Colonies|*]]
[[Category:RDM|*]]

[[de:Die Zwölf Kolonien (RDM)]]
[[es:Las Doce Colonias (RDM)]]

The Twelve Colonies of Kobol

2006-11-18T08:34:12Z

TaKometer: Go back and watch the miniseries. It's kinda absurd to say the three places are "within colonial explored space" of course they are.

:''This article discusses the Twelve Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. See [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)]] for information on the Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]].''

{{RDM twelve colonies series}}

Approximately 2,000 years ago, twelve of the thirteen tribes of [[Kobol]] leave the planet due to an issue involving their [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|gods]], settling on worlds some distance away ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]). Their names and icons originally corresponded to the twelve signs of the ancient tribes, although these [[wikipedia:Zodiac|names]] drifted over time<ref>Flag matches with Colonies from "Encyclopedia Galactica." [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine]]. Feb./Mar. 2006: 50-55.</ref> ([[Home, Part II]]).

Although Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and President [[Laura Roslin]] mention leaving the solar system
<ref>The 2003 [[Video Game]] and the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] name the home system (or galaxy) for the Twelve Colonies as [[Cyrannus]]. However, since both the Video Game and Original Series material is of a [[Battlestar Wiki:Separate continuity|separate continuity]], its name for the system is questionable for the Re-imagined Series. In an early script of the miniseries, the Twelve Colonies were originally located on a single world - [[Kobol]]. However, this was later revised to twelve separate worlds, in keeping with the Original Series concept.</ref>, it is unclear whether all twelve colonies are orbiting a single star or what the name of this star might be . However, Caprica, Virgon, and Ragnar Anchorage are known to be within the same star system ([[Miniseries]]).

The Colonies had approximately 20 billion inhabitants prior to the Cylon attack ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance|The Resistance]])<ref>In an early draft manuscript of the [[Miniseries]], Secretary [[Laura Roslin]] notes that the [[Colonial Ministry of Defense|Ministry of Defense]] conducts the government census, and had a count of 12 billion individuals. Saul Tigh's approximation in ''The Resistance'', as aired, should be taken as the correct value.</ref>.

[[Ronald D. Moore]] has suggested that the Colonies probably maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems, but it is unlikely that ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' will encounter them in the course of the series <ref>[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 Sourced from a January 30, 2005] blog entry by [[Ronald D. Moore]] on Sci-Fi.com.</ref>.

==Aerelon==
[[Image:ColonialColors7.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aerelon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Aries (constellation)|Aries]]

"Fifteen people died" when President [[Richard Adar]], for reasons unexplained, sent the [[Colonial Marine Corps|Marines]] to Aerelon ([[Water]]).

The mining colony of [[Troy]], destroyed in a cataclysmic explosion ([[Flesh and Bone]]) is located near Aerelon, and may have been operated by natives of that world. [[Troy]] was the alleged home of [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

The pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] team from Aerelon played against the [[Caprica Buccaneers]] in one of the last games before the Cylon attack. They apparently won ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).

A photo of a grief-stricken soldier staring out at the ruins of Aerelon's capital hangs behind President Roslin's desk and on the bulkhead of the pilot ready room on ''Galactica'' (titled [["Lest We Forget"]]). ''Galactica's ''pilots touch the photo for luck as they file past to the hangar.

===Natives===
*[[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] - ([[Cylon agent#Ron Moore elaborates on the twelve models|Falsified]]. Precise home given as the [[Troy]] mining colony)
*[[Sekou Hamilton]] (Presumably - editor of the ''Aerelon Gazette'')
*[[Socinus]]
*The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aerelon voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]])

===Publications===
*''[[Aerelon Gazette]]''

 

==Aquaria==
[[Image:ColonialColors12.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Aquaria]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Aquarius (constellation)|Aquarius]])

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Aquaria voted for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).
 

==Canceron==
[[Image:ColonialColors9.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Canceron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Cancer (constellation)|Cancer]]

*[[Robin Wenutu]] is the Canceron Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]].

 

==Caprica==
[[Image:ColonialColors3.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Caprica]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Capricornus|Capricornus]])

Caprica is a large blue-green planet, similar to Earth. Its largest population center is [[Caprica City]], which serves as the seat of all three branches of the Colonial [[Government]], making Caprica effectively the capital of the Twelve Colonies. Caprica City is surrounded by other small towns and hamlets, such as [[Oasis]]. Thus far, Caprica is the only planet of the Twelve Colonies that viewers have seen directly. The episode opening credits show Caprica City, as well as the nuclear bombing of Caprica itself.

Other major cities included [[Delphi]], famous for the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]] and also home to a large spaceport. During the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], the Cylons spared Delphi from nuclear bombardment in order to use it as a base of operations in their occupation of the planet. The human [[Caprica Resistance|resistance]] cell, led by [[Samuel Anders]], operates near Delphi.

Caprica is known for its fine Caprican cloth (which Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] wears), [[fumarella leaf]], [[Caprican Imperial|Caprican cigars]] and art.

A railway line can be seen below the balcony of Baltar's house on Caprica during "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]." What appear to be internal combustion engine powered vehicles, such as cars and trucks, are seen extensively in shots of Caprica.

===Natives===
*[[William Adama|William "Husker" Adama]].
*[[Caroline Adama]]
*[[Lee Adama|Lee "Apollo" Adama]].
*Lt. [[Zak Adama]]
*Doctor [[Gaius Baltar]] (Born on Sagittaron)
*[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]] (Had an apartment in Delphi. Sky One sources state that she was born on Picon, but this this information is questionable).
*[[James McManus]] (Presumably - editor of the ''[[Caprican Times]]'')
*[[Aaron Doral]] (alleged home was in [[Oasis]])
*President [[Richard Adar]] (Presumably - according to background information from SkyOne he started his political career as the mayor of [[Caprica City]])

===Publications and Media===
*''[[Caprican Times]]''
*''[[Caprican Life]]''
*[[Caprica 5]]
*[[Channel 7 News]]

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Caprica Buccaneers]]

===See also===
* [[Unnamed Cities of Caprica]]
* [[Gup's Point]]
* [[Pilgrim Bay]]
* [[Caprica Beach]]

 

==Gemenon==
[[Image:ColonialColors5.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Gemenon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Gemini (constellation)|Gemini]]

Gemenon natives are known for their literal interpretations of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] ([[Fragged]]). Despite federal laws guaranteeing of reproductive freedom, the population of Gemenon was apparently very strongly opposed to abortion. Traditional Gemenese law declares children to be the property of their parents ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

Gemenon is home to the Kobol College School of Public Relations ([[Miniseries]]). One of the last ever pro [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] games was held on Gemenon just prior to the [[Cylon attack]] on the Colonies ([[Miniseries]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Sarah Porter]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*Corporal [[Venner]]
*Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Rya Kibby]]
 

==Leonis==
[[Image:ColonialColors8.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Leonis]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Leo (constellation)|Leo]]

[[Safiya Sanne]] is identified as both Leonis's and [[#Picon|Picon]]'s representative on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. See his article for details.

 

==Libra==
[[Image:ColonialColors11.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Libra]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Libra (constellation)|Libra]]

''Practically no information has been given yet regarding the colony corresponding to Libra. Its colonial-era name also has yet to be confirmed.''

The ''[[Space Park]]'', a passenger liner in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]], is of Libran registry.

 

==Picon==
[[Image:ColonialColors2.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Picon]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Pisces (constellation)|Pisces]])

Picon is the location for the [[Picon Fleet Headquarters|Colonial Fleet Headquarters]] ([[Miniseries]]). The colony came under heavy attack during the early stages of the Cylon attack. President [[Richard Adar]] offered a complete and unconditional surrender to the Cylons after Picon was nuked; this overture was ignored ([[Miniseries]], [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)|deleted scene]]).

[[Ellen Tigh]] claimed to be at the airport on Picon, "on her way home" when the attack started, and that some "unknown hero" ensured she was put on the last ship to get off the planet ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

===Natives===
*Representative [[Safiya Sanne]], [[Quorum of Twelve]] (Although see his article for some confusion on the matter)
* [[Playa Palacios]], Veteran columnist from the ''Picon Star Tribune'' (presumed a resident)
* [[Asha Janik]], Cylon sympathizer, member of the "[[Demand Peace]]" movement

===Publications===
*''[[Picon Star Tribune]]''

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Picon Panthers]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

 

==Sagittaron==
[[Image:ColonialColors10.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Sagittaron]]
'''Ancient Name''': (presumably [[wikipedia:Sagittarius (constellation)|Sagittarius]])

Sagittaron endured centuries of exploitation at the hands of the other Colonies ([[Bastille Day]]), so much so that even after [[Articles of Colonization|unified Colonial rule]], [[Tom Zarek]] led an organized series of terrorist acts against the established government there, many years before the fall of the Colonies. One of these acts include blowing up a government building ([[Bastille Day]]). Under Sagittarian penal law, convicted felons lose their citizenship, but have it automatically reinstated after they finish serving their sentences. This included the right to vote and to stand for election ([[Colonial Day]]).

As of the episode "[[33]]," 5,251 natives of the planet resided in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]].

===Natives===
*Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*Representative [[Tom Zarek]], [[Quorum of Twelve]]
*[[Valance]] ([[Colonial Day]])
*[[Leon Grimes]] ([[Colonial Day]])

===Note===
Sagittaron is referred to as "Sagittar'''i'''on" in the [[Miniseries]], but this changed to "Sagittaron" when the regular series began.

 

==Scorpia==
[[Image:ColonialColors6.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Scorpia]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpius]]

Home to the [[Scorpian Fleet Shipyards]], where battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' was docked during the Cylon attack. Scorpia native [[Eladio Puasha]] serves as its Quorum delegate.

 

==Tauron==
[[Image:ColonialColors4.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Tauron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Taurus (constellation)|Taurus]]

The unnamed [[Quorum of Twelve]] delegate from Tauron votes for [[Gaius Baltar]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).

In a May 31st, 2006 [http://media23a.libsyn.com/a3eaeJh2aHaXeWN7Z3RppGuolHWY/podcasts/podcast411/411_060531.mp3 interview], [[Ron Moore]] stated that he toyed with the idea of making Tauron a [[Wikipedia:matriarchy|matriarchy]], unlike the gender-blind society of the other Colonies (prominently Caprica) we've seen so far.

===Natives===
*Admiral [[Helena Cain]]

 

==Virgon==
[[Image:ColonialColors1.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and Symbol of Virgon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Virgo (constellation)|Virgo]]

[[Marshall Bagot]] is the Virgon Representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. In public ceremony, the Virgon delegate wears a light blue sash.

Soon after the Cylon attack began, the bulk of the spacewide offensive by the Colonials began "shaping up" over the planet. The battle ostensibly ends with the destruction of battlestar ''[[Atlantia]]'' and the death of Admiral [[Nagala]].

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z|*]]
[[Category:Planets|*]]
[[Category:Twelve Colonies|*]]
[[Category:RDM|*]]

[[de:Die Zwölf Kolonien (RDM)]]
[[es:Las Doce Colonias (RDM)]]

Armistice Line

2006-11-18T08:11:24Z

TaKometer:

The '''Armistice Line''' is a border between Cylon and Colonial territories, likely drawn out during the [[Cimtar Peace Accords]].

One year prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], Commander [[William Adama]] of [[battlestar (RDM)|battlestar]] ''[[Valkyrie]]'' was ordered by Admiral [[Corman]] on a secret mission to recon the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]]'s space to determine their potential military operations. To do so, Adama sent Lieutenant [[Daniel Novacek]] in a [[Stealth Star]] over the Armistice Line, where Novachek was intercepted by a lone Cylon contact.

In a vain attempt to cover up the trespass, Adama sent a ship-to-ship missle to Novacek's location. The Cylons summarily captured Novachek, who ejected from the craft prior to its destruction.

Up until the time of Novacek's return after the [[Second Exodus]], Adama believes that this trespass lead to the Cylon attack against the Colonies ([[Hero]]).

It's likely that [[cylon agent]]s had been violating the armistice line for some time prior to Adama's transgression.

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Colonial History]] [[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-18T08:09:52Z

TaKometer: /* Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) */

== Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) ==
I was reading the quote from Eick, "...Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies." and for some reason I felt that thie reminded me of Gorge Washington long before we was president or even commander-in-chief when, before the 7-Years-War, Washington was involved in a skirmish with the French over Fort Necessity, aka Pittsburgh (yes, we fought a battle for that city) that led to Washington signing a treaty stating, unbeknownst to him because he couldn't speak French and his interpreter sucked, that he committed attrocities against France in the name of the British Empire. This, according to many historians, led to the 7 Years War, known in America as the French and Indian War, that would decimate Northern Germany. I'm sure Washington at some level had to be aware of this error on his part and led him to remorse I imagine. Anyways, the story is different but I was wondering how many parallels there will be, if there will be, in this episode to Washington's conundrum. I wanted to ask a question on the article page but couldn't concise it enough for wiki standards. I may ask on the scifi bboard but input on this would be appreciated before I do. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 19:42, 3 August 2006 (PST)
:That's an interesting analogy, showing a fine attention to historical detail. I think the parallel has minor flaws, though, since Washington's conduct in that matter isn't generally considered morally wrong so much as foolish. [[Wikipedia:Gavrilo Princip|Gavrilo Princip]] might be worth considering as a parallel; he was the immediate but not ultimate cause of a devastating war, and he precipitated the conflict by attacking his fellow countryman, thinking it justified in contrast to the general consensus. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:28, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

:: It's unlikely that Adama's actions are quite the transgression that he believes it to be; after all, the [[cylon agent|Cylons had been violating the armistice line]] for about a half a year prior to Adama's, anyway.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 02:09, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Another Battlestar? ==
There is a spoiler image showing Adm Adama and Col Tigh in the CIC of the Battlestar Valkerie. I zoomed in on Adama and saw he had his Admiral's pins on. Might this be a sign that they soon will find yet another Battlestar? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:24, 15 November 2006 (CST)
: It's a flashback scene. It may be more of a costuming error. Note that Tigh still has his eye in that promo shot. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 01:39, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:: Right. Two eyed Tigh. Darn. I was hoping they'd find another Battlestar cause I do miss the Pegasus. It was bigger, much cooler and the doors made this cool "beep" when they opened. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:50, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::You can visit [[Valkyrie]] as well. It's a spoiler until Friday but you can adjust it with some new data later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::It's true, I saw the Admiral pips as well, the flashback should have been Commander pips; as the Stealth ship incident occurred three years ago. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 22:56, 17 November 2006 (CST)

== Barry Kennedy as Admiral Corman ==

Hey all, I was just checking on Barry Kennedy's link, and it links to an IMDB page other than his profile page detailing his filmography, and etc. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 23:52, 17 November 2006 (CST)

Battlestar Group

2006-11-14T22:55:08Z

TaKometer: /* Known Battlestar Groups */

:''This page covers the acronym for the '''Battlestar Group'''. "BSG" is also an acronym for the television series, "Battlestar Galactica." For more, view the [[Battlestar Galactica|disambiguation page]].''

'''Battlestar Groups''' are seen by [[Ronald D. Moore]] as analogous to a modern-day [[Wikipedia:Carrier battle group|Carrier Battle Group]], comprising at least one battlestar, plus a number of support vessels.<ref>[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000015 January 27, 2005 blog post by RDM]</ref>
Given the number of available battlestars at the outbreak of hostilities with the [[Cylon attack]], it is possible that a battlestar group may have comprised a number (3-4) battlestars operating as a single unit, supported by additional Colonial vessels.

==Known Battlestar Groups==
The following Battlestar Groups are known to have existed before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]; their continued existence as functional entities is dubious:
*BSG 62: Led by [[Mercury class battlestar|''Mercury'' class battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', under Admiral [[Helena Cain]].
*BSG 75: Led by [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', under Commander [[William Adama]]. This group's high unit number belies the age of ''Galactica'', probably the oldest commissioned ship in the Colonial Fleet, or that it's high number lowers it's priority in the colonial fleet so the lower the number the more important the group. Alternatively, the colonial fleet may have renumbered the units at some point between the commissioning of Mercury and Galactica.

==Sources==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Kampfsterngruppe]]

Talk:The Twelve Colonies of Kobol/Archive3

2006-11-14T22:43:59Z

TaKometer:

==Question==

Do we know that the colonies are necessarily on 12 worlds? Can someone find a reference? It's clear that virgon and caprica are in the same star system, and that each colony can have more than one city, (dephi, in caprica), but is there some reason why two colonies can't be on the same planet?

==Merge proposal==

This article, and the articles for each of the Twelve Colonies, are all very short, and I don't see any of them expanding substantially in the near future. I think it would make for a nice looking, meaty article if we merged in each of the individual colony articles with this one under first-level headings. How say you all? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:50, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

I know this looks weird and kind of dumb. I'm still fiddling. It's easy to revert if the whole thing ends up being too hideous to bear. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:17, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

[[image:Banner_unknown1.gif|left|75px]][[image:Banner_unknown2.gif|right|75px]]
: I like the idea and whats up now. If we knew more about each colony, it would look nicer, but until then I think this is fine. Now... What to do with these other two banners? Now, the two colonies without banners are Leo and Aquarius, the lion and the water-bearer. Both of these symbols could be a water-bearer, I guess, but I think the black and white one looks like he has whisters, there and that shape at the top looks more ear-like. That would leave the blue and red one to be the water bearer, which I think makes sense enough. Think we could drop those in with a note as to their speculative nature, or best not to? --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:27, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::I'm leaving this one up to [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]], our resident flag-hunter. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:32, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The two colonies without banners is Aquarius and whatever the colonial name is for Libra. I saw in the mini-series they mentioned a colony called "ICON" alongside of "PICON" so I'm a little weirded out. As for Leonis, that flag has been found. I did a picture search in google for the zodiac's constellation and found the flag's symbol looked exactly like what I have designated. I can't remember, but I believe the constellation for Libra looked quite similar to the black one. Since we don't yet know as of yet what is the name for the Libra colony, I have left it blank. [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]]

:At least we know it isn't Ophiuchi or something. Roslin identifies Libra in the Tomb of Athena map room, although she doesn't give its modern name. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:59, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Realizing that it's still being worked on, it looks awful right now. You can't tell which banner goes to which colony, for one thing. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:30, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Personally, I don't really like the combination of all 12 colonies together either since there is no set border and down the road we will have pictures relating to each colony. This will make it slower to download. --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 12:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The problem, in my opinion, is that there's little to do at the main article other than simply list the colonies, and the majority of the individual colonies are stub-like in length. As for images, Caprica is the only planet we've seen thus far and probably the only one we're likely to see (unless we get Scorpion in a flashback in Pegasus or something). One thing we can do, if it becomes necessary, is link to full-length articles from just underneath the first-level headings.

:As for the banners, I agree that they could be confusing but I rather like them right now. Do either of you think it coudl be re-arranged in a better manner (maybe if they didn't alternate sides? But then there'd be a lot more wasted space)? Or is it a lost cause in your opinions? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:20, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::Yeah, you could try putting all the banners on the right. See how it looks. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 14:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::There, that's what they look like right-aligned. Frankly, I think they look better alternating. I don't find it confusing, and the wasted space bugs me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Hate to say it, but I don't like it at all. The banners overlap with the previous colony's "box", there are no clear markers indicating where one section begins and another ends, it just looks bad. (Part of the problem is that we don't have much information about many of the colonies at this point.) --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:07, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::It'd be better if we could insert a line across the entire page, and have the colony name under that line, along with the banner on the right. Then each colony would have a neat, easily readable section. I don't know if Wiki markup is capable of that though. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:10, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::::I still think it's a better option than thirteen articles that are completely insubstantial on their own. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

I added captions to some of the banners, and in the process deleted some of the <nowiki><div></nowiki> markup. Wikipedia recommends against using HTML ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_markup_with_HTML]), and I've been trying to learn from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax Extended image syntax] page. I can't figure out why a new section like <nowiki>==Caprica==</nowiki> doesn't appear on the same level as its banner. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:09, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:Ah ha! The wonders of '''<nowiki> </nowiki>'''! What do you guys think of the formatting now? --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:28, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::My HTML/CSS was not used lightly. That's really the one way to get the banners at the section heading level as I did. Frankly this seems like a more cumbersome version of my right-aligned attempt. I really dislike the caption boxes, too.
::I have a new idea: Rather than use the (rather long) banners, we can grab the icons from each, along with the background colors, and use them. I've created nine high-resolution versions from QuintusCinna's originals, which you can link to below:
::[http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/aerelon.png Aerelon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/canceron.png Canceron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/caprica.png Caprica], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/gemenon.png Gemenon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/picon.png Picon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/sagittaron.png Sagittaron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpion.png Scorpion], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/tauron.png Tauron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/virgon.png Virgon]
::These could be scaled down to almost any size and still look nice. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:35, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Without caption boxes, it's not clear what the banners are. I know it seems self-explanatory to us, but for someone who's never seen them before, it's not. I'll take a look at the icons in a bit. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 17:03, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I find repeating "This is the Banner of X" to be tedious, and the red background to be jarring. Couldn't we simply note that the banner/icon/flag/colors of the colony is provided to the right? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:06, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Peter. You've saved us all. As I said earlier, I liked it when the banner appeared to be hanging from the red line under its colony's name. I share Peter's dislike for tons of white space and alternating the sides seemed to create the least of that. However, if we just had the emblem and colors from each flag, we could do it below the red line as Fang seems to like, and not have this huge, long graphic. Maybe we can then link the full banner pics and, if we get enough information that a given colony's article wouldn't be a stub, we can display it there. Does all that make sense? --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I like it with banners to right, with titling, albeit a little redundant. Not sure how to deal with the "white space" of many areas, but we're really not going to get them filled until we get more data, so that is that. I feel it's informative enough as it stands, but I'll leave the formatting arguments alone. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:52, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

==Which flag is which?==
A close viewing of [[Colonial Day]] indicates that the flag currently labeled as [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]] belongs to Safiya Sanne's seat - either Picon or Leonis; and that the black flag belongs to Robin Wenutu's seat (Canceron), and that VIrgon's flag is a white field with a green inner stripe and yellow outer stripe. I'm curious as to how QuintusCinna came to his conclusion that the delegates aren't seated at their apprporiate flags, since I don't know any other evidence linking particular flags to colonies. I guess Scorpion is pretty obvious, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:34, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Don't trust the banners lining up with those they represent in [[Colonial Day]]. The reason I say this is that [[Tom Zarek]] is in one area of the room and his very obvious banner for Sagitarron is completely in another area. This is the same for Virgon's banner and their representative. There are 3 different questions I carry thanks to the shows I have watched. In the mini-series we see the banners are in this order from left to right: [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Aerelon|Aerelon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], Scorpion, Aquaria(?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]], Libra (?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]], [[Canceron]] (?), [[Leonis]]. Is this in the order that the colonies signed the unification treaty or is the order for the flags random or is it in the order they were nuked? Though I am sure the producers, directors, and such just put them up in random order, it is now a sense of fact for the show. If we were to believe they were placed up there, the banners must be up there in some order that is according to military protocol for flag bearing. In Colonial Day I add 2 more questions. We see that the banners are behind the delegates in a different order than in the mini-series. This means they were either a) put up randomly or b) have a separate purpose than those shown at the end of the mini-series (nuked, treaty order, or other). Then we see that the delegates are put in a different order than the banners behind them. The Gemenon delegate is clearly seen toward the middle and the Gemenon flag is clearly in a different area. The same questions come up for the delegates: are they randomly placed or is there reason. It's not alphabetical, and placements of delegates and banners in every society is always in some sort of traditional order. I hope that the Battlestar Galactica producers, writers, and such will be able to answer this though I suspect they won't because they have REAL lives.

As for the Picon flag, the constellation looks quite similar to the picon banner and the same goes for Tauron's with Taurus. I have no doubt with those. The Libra's icon can be seen in this picture http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/HorseAstrology/AstrologySymbol.gif 2 clockwise from Sagittarius.
--[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 1:12, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

==New Icons==
What do you think? We might consider making them smaller and removing the image frame and caption, but I'd also be happy leaving them as they are. It's nice to have a place to note that some of the symbols are only tentatively identified with the colonies in question. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:42, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:It looks fine. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 09:11, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I like 'em. I'd say smaller, though. Of course... I have my thumb settings to 300px so that screen shots are large enough to be intelligible, so smaller to me would be about 150px or 100px. I also like alternating for balance, but that's just me. I alternate right a left in other articles, too. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:21, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

I have a set of colonial glyphs that were lifted from a copy of the voting ballots used in Lay Down Your Burdens Pt1. I can upload both the cap of the ballot and the vector graphics file of the glyphs. I've already released the glyphs for public use, so I have no problem with their being used here. The ballot image I have has Baltar's name blurred out, as that was a spoiler at the time the image was released. The image orginally came from the Reproduction Props Forum, where a member got hold of one of the actual props used in the episode. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 14:54, 31 July 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks for the offer. It would be nice to get a look at them. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:16, 31 July 2006 (CDT)
::Okay, I've uploaded the four jpgs I have of the voting ballot. They still reside on my server at the moment. If you decide to include them in the wiki, I'll upload them to the database. 
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotSm.jpg Small Image of Ballot Front]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotFront.jpg Large Image of Ballot Front]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotBack.jpg Large Image of Ballot Back]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/PaperProps/VotingBallotTop.jpg Very Large Image of Ballot Top]
::* [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/ColonialGlyphs.gif My version of the colonial glyphs (gif)]
:: If you want to play with the Photoshop custom shapes file, it's [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/LeesBSGshapes.csh.zip here (zip)]. [[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 00:25, 2 August 2006 (CDT)

==Residence vs. Tribe==

I think there's a difference between "where a character currently makes their residence" and "what colony they are from". I think "what colony they are from" means "what ''tribe''" they are. For example, Dualla could have been away from Sagittaron for years and lived on another Colony, but she's still from the Sagittaron tribe. In "Bastille Day", she describes herself as "a Sagittaron", not "someone ''from'' Sagittaron".

Anyway, I also think that non-canonical information from SkyOne website should not be used in assuming Stabuck may be from Picon, not Caprica. We should wait until this is said on either the Scifi.com official site, or on screen.
--Ricimer, 16 Sept, 2005

:Actually, Dee did say "I'm from Sagittaron". [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:56, 10 July 2006 (CDT)

==Outposts==

Ricimer wrote: ''The Colonials actually expanded their sphere of influence over time beyond the original Twelve Colonies to include several outposts, bases, and mining colonies (such as [[Troy]]) in other systems ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html| RDM, January 30, 2005]), though they were apparently minor extensions of the original Twelve Colonies rather than independently functioning worlds in their own right, and when the Cylons overwhelmed the Twelve Colonies themselves no mention is even explicity made about these minor worlds, seeming to take it as a given that the destruction of the Twelve Colonies would equal the destruction of humanity, and that these outposts were not significant enough to pose any challenge to the Cylon fleet.''

RDM's actual comments are:

:Q: "Did the colonies have outposts, bases, or trade partners outside of the 12 colonies. Did they even explore other systems. The colonies could have had observatories, listening posts, or even scientific research teams exploring other planets beyond the colonial system(s). They could encounter any of these which could lead to supplies, raw materials, food, fuel etc. "

:RDM: I think that's probably true, but part of our premise is that the fleet has Jumped far out into unexplored space in an effort to elude the Cylons, so we won't be encountered any other outposts or colonies.

I think that's a very weak confirmation, and if we're going to include it here, it should reflect the vagueness of RDM's actual comment. I have replaced it with the following:

:Ronald D. Moore has suggested that the Colonies probably maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems, but it is unlikely that ''Galactica'' will encounter them in the course of the series. ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016|RDM, January 30, 2005])

--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:35, 15 December 2005 (EST)

==Scorpion vs. Scorpia==

At present, we have a name card from "[[Colonial Day]]" and the name of the [[Scorpia Traveler]] in favor of "Scorpia", and the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] in favor of "Scorpion". Ricimer, if you want to make a case for "Scorpion" over "Scorpia", you ''must'' cite an episode quote, and I will not produce it for you. Your uncited revisions are anathema to our goal of accuracy. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:34, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:I am sorry, I was in a hurry to get out and didn't have time to wip out my copy of the series companion. On p.86 of "Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion", by David Bassom, there is an "''early'' concept sketch of the flags of the Twele Colonies"; On this, it lists the names "Scorpia", but also "Libran", and "Aquarion". "[[Colonial Day]]" established that these two Colonies are in fact named "Libra" and "Aquaria", in dialog, etc. This evidence has led me to believe that "Scorpia" was amongst some early ideas for Colony names that were thrown around in the early stages of production, but which were later changed; however, the art and props department wasn't notified of the switch, or made a mistake, etc. I'm also inclined to this line of thinking because the props in this scene feature several now-infamous goofs, such as the switcheroo between Canceron, Picon, Leonis, etc., etc. As for the evidence from "Scorpia Traveler", there's also a "Gemini" ship, as well as mispelling etc. which have led me to the belief that certain ship names are just meant for asthetic value and do not necessarily reflect the actual name of their home Colony. In "Home, Part II" it was established that the Colonies used to have "ancient names" which align more closely to the signs of the Zodiac, but which over the millenia have drifted away into their present form. Perhaps some ship captains just felt like naming their vessels after the more ancient names. I don't know. But the main points remain: A) Ship names aren't very reliable as an information source, B) this scene had many goofs in it, C) the official companion shows that this was an early name thrown around, but later abandoned, and several of these early names have been disproven by this point. Therefore, I think "Scorpion Fleet Shipyards", the first ''prominent'' mention of Scorpion/Scorpia, taken with the above evidence, proves that the true name of the Colony is "Scorpion". What's everyone else's consensus? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:24, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::I'm with Ricimer on this one.--Zareck Rocks 15:04, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::I agree with Ricimer, as Cain's mention of the "scorpion fleet shipyards" is the only canonical reference to place when it comes to the scorpio-related colony. It has also been shown, as Ricimer mentions above, that the ship names seem to be variations of the colony names i.e. [[Gemenon Taveller]] and the [[Gemini]]. So we can't necessarily glean the name of the scorpio-related colony from the [[Scorpia Traveller]], for there may also be a Scorpion Traveller.
::However, unless someone can verify this with subtitles, Cain could be saying Scorpi''an'' fleet shipyards, rather than Scorpi''on'', thereby inferring that the colony name is Scorpia (I dare to speculate that the Caprica would have it's own Caprican fleet shipyards(if it did indeed have shipyards)). I don't have the DVDs, as they're not yet available in Canada, but someone should really check this, it could answer this question --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 16:20, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::I've grepped the TwizTV logs, and the Scorpia/Scorpion colony has never been referred to apart from the instances we've already listed. So, here's what that means:
:::#We have a mention of the "Scorpia Traveler", which matches the "Gemenon Traveler". "Freighter Gemini" is a TOS reference.
:::#We have a comment that might be the "Scorpion" shipyards, or the "Scorpian" shipyards.
:::#We have a clear and readable screenshot of the name of the colony.
:::We should not "correct" the name of the colony to what we think it "should" be, when we have unequivocal evidence staring us in the face. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:09, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::I'm sorry, but it doesn't really seem like the above evidence is "unequivocal". Thankfully, I think "Resurrection Ship" will make further mention of ''Pegasus' '' flight from the shipyards, and we will probably hear the name again. Best to wait until then. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:05, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::Let me clarify. We have at least seen "Scorpia" spelled out. We have never even ''heard'' "Scorpion", except in a context that might easily have been "Scorpian". In my opinion, the two options here are "Scorpia" or "We don't know". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:45, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::Wait a minute, someone out there has got to have the DVD set of the second season, we should be able to determine the definitive name of the scorpio colony from that. Although, I suppose, Peter, that you're suggesting we leave it at Scorpia until someone can check the subtitles. That sounds fine with me. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 22:56, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::How will that tell us definitively? It was only mentioned in "Pegasus", in the ambiguous dialogue mentioned above. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:00, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::Like I said, we stand a good chance of hearing it again in the very next two episodes, so I suggest we leave things as they are, and reach a final decision after "Resurrection Ship, Part II". Although we could get subtitles from the DVD, subtitles can be notoriously innaccurate when it comes to the finer points of spelling, i.e. Scorpion vs. Scorpian. Perhaps we could rewatch Pegasus, and check the inflection that Michelle Forbes uses; I ''think'' she clearly said "-ion" (as opposed to "-ian"). I'll check again; however, even hearing the dialog personally, I doubt this will give a DEFINATIVE answer in ANY form as the actress could have been just slurring it. I don't know. Well, I'll check for the sake of checking. Again, I think we should "wait and see" on this one. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:11, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::::I just watched the episode and the subtitles (however inaccurate) do say "Scorpion." It does sound like Forbes says more of an -ion than -ian. Just my two cents. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:30, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::::Thank you Talos. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:04, 26 December 2005 (EST)
::::::::::Scorpion would be pronounced with the full vowel "{{IPA|piɑn}}, while "Scorpian" would use a reduced vowel, {{IPA|piən}} or {{IPA|piɨn}}. The latter is what I hear, although Ricimer is right that it could just be "slurring". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:09, 26 December 2005 (EST)
:::::::::::I've isolated Michelle Forbes's pronunciation of "Scorpi_n" and uploaded it [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpian.wav here]. Unfortunately, the last syllable is basically whispered and cannot be analyzed for vowel formants. It does sound very reduced to me, however. This is not usually the case for Picon, Gemenon, etc. which are almost always realized with full vowels.
:::::::::::Note, by the way, that the ''animal'' spelled "Scorpion" would be pronounced the same as the adjective "Scorpian", while a colony called Scorpion would be pronounced "Skor-pee-on". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:05, 28 December 2005 (EST)

Final call for objections before I move the relevant articles. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:23, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

== Location ==

I didn't want to get into a revert war, so... How, exactly, are the colonies' positions indicated in the Tomb of Athena? I just watched that ep last night and I don't remember any arrows or name tags... If the theory is that the colonies are inside the constellation that shares their name, then I think I'll have to disagree. Not possible. The zodiac constellations are spread about in our sky in a circle, meaning they're not very near each other at all (so if "the Colonies" can be considered some single area of space that's small enough to go from one end to another inside months they need to be closer than a large ring of space encircling Earth) and all the stars in a constellation aren't even necessarily near each other. --[[User:Day|Day]] 10:42, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:I don't think the positions of the Twelve Colonies are indicated at all by the tomb of Athena. It's just a map to Earth (Earth being the only spot where those constellations would appear in that configuration). It is interesting that would mean that there isn't a direct correlation between the constellations and the colonies that they are named after... (other than as a rememberance of where they came from, kind of). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:50, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:The fact of the matter is that the Tomb of Athena holographic map to Earth shows constellations made of the symbols of the Twelve Tribees/Colonies; these constellations are '''entirely arbitrary'''; that is, they were designated purely because they resemble the symbols of the Colonies; each planet of the 12 is in ''no way'' in each constellation. Besides, that would mean they'd often end up in separate galaxies. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:23, 4 January 2006 (EST)

::Well, no, not separate galaxies, but further apart from each other than each is from earth. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:34, 4 January 2006 (EST)

::: My point exactly, Peter. Well said. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:05, 5 January 2006 (EST)

Can we take the part about all the colonies orbiting the same star out of the article? I think it's pretty clear that they're all separate systems, unless someone has different information. --[[User:Bahamut|Bahamut]] 02:42, 12 March 2006 (EST)

:Why do you think that's clear? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:59, 12 March 2006 (CST)

::Mostly because of the use of FTL technology, but also because of the improbability of a star having twelve planets that can support human life. It's discussed elsewhere in the Wiki that it's likely they're all separate systems. Maybe instead of taking it out altogether we should add a caveat about how it's disputed or at least link to the other discussion? --[[User:Bahamut|Bahamut]] 18:36, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Upon re-watching the Miniseries (IMHO anyway) all references are given as hours from caprica, but when the war alert first goes off and Cmdr Adama asks to "scan the system" (circa 48mins in) the report is given that "Now, looks like the main fight is shaping up over here near Virgon's orbit" and a few lines latter "If we can keep Virgon between us and the battle". Which to me means that Virgon, Caprica and Ragnar (a gas giant) are all in the same solar system. thoughts anyone? [[User:Pickle UK|Pickle UK]] 00:45, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:I think this is a settled issue. From Moore's blog, [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000016 30 January 2005]:
::Does it make sense that there would be a star system with 12 inhabitable planets? Not really, but that was in the original and at some point I decided to run with that as another nod to the old show.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:56, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::An important note on this topic is that among young stars, they tend to be grouped in what is known as "stellar associations" which are several stars that are gravitational bound together by virtue of them all being born at the same time in the same stellar nursery and all being within a light year of each other; hence you could call them a system. Now, over time as they get more to our Sun's age, they will disapate over a great distance and no longer be associated, but this is over 100s of millions to billions of years. Generally it is considered unlikely that such young stars bear planets that possess life but does not rule out the idea that they have planets... earth-like planets. Therefore, a stellar association, possessing 12 or more stars....all within a light year of each other...--[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 01:40, 10 April 2006 (PST)

::::Honestly, this is the sort of speculation that impedes my enjoyment of the show. It doesn't matter, and I don't care. Feel free to speculate as you will, but I think the whole debate is distracting and unworthy of more than a footnote. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:37, 10 April 2006 (CDT)

== More on flags ==

I found this a while ago. A user on Sci-Fi.com's messageboard going by "bescincimevsim" has made some incredible renderings of all twelve colonial flags that, in my oppinion look very good and accurate to what has been seen on the show. It might be worth checking out the [http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=BattlestarGalactica&Number=1310569&Searchpage=2&Main=1310569&Words=bescincimevsim&topic=&Search=true#Post1310569 topic here]. I ''think'' they might be avalible for free use, but then again the guy doesn't seem to be available for contact anymore a he posted only one topic, the one about the flags, then stopped posting altogether in mid October. Either way, I think it should be worth checking out. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 18:05, 25 January 2006 (EST)

:We should not use these. I think they're just fanart. There is a page in the official companion of *early* flag designs (the names are wrong in some cases, etc. so this page of the book is an early draft and shouldn't be used as fact). However, this guy also confuses the symbols of Tauron and Leonis. I mean it's just a guy posting on a messageboard. The Citation Crusade wouldn't stand for it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:22, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::The assignment of colony and flag is obviously non-canon, but the graphics themselves are far superior to the ones we're using. We should ask him to license them to us under the CCL. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:56, 25 January 2006 (EST)

::Alternately, if he can be contacted, ask him to create corrected ones based on a CCL.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 14:40, 2 February 2006 (EST)
::Well, I've done some tweaking to our icons making them look a little crisper and sort-of rationalised the originals by QuintusCinna and the ones seen on the Sci-Fi BBS by bescincimevsim. I'll upload them soon and if you don't like them then I guess you can just revert them later. Just thought I'd help out, is all. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 00:12, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::I think they're an improvement. Thank you, Kahran. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:57, 17 March 2006 (CST)

==Colonial Flags==
The Colonial Flags, as listed on this page, have been matched to their colonies based solely on on-screen evidence. Given their dubious veracity on other matters, I am not prepared to take the Official Magazine's word for it over what we've actually seen — at least not without a discussion. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:26, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:Okay, then you should know that the flags also match what is written in the Battlestar Galactica The Official Companion. It has a page for Colonial Day that lists the flasg for each colony and it's the smae as the Magazine flag listings, so that's two sources that support my listings as opposed the shoddy on-screen evidence from the episodes. --Ltcrashdown 22:30, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::I've examined the footage of Colonial Day and QuintusCinna's arguments, and concluded that they aren't very strong. I'm going to revert this back to your version. Do you have a cite for the Official Companion as well? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:35, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::Here's the info: Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion by David Bassom, page 86, Published by Titan Books, London, August 2005
:::By the way, what was QuintusCinna's source?--Ltcrashdown 22:39, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::::For the colonies at issue here, it was mostly conjecture on his part. I remembered his argument having more basis than it actually did. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:26, 8 February 2006 (EST)

== We are Gemenese if you Please! ==

I think the way this works (and once we nail it down, we should put it on S&C, probably) is that someone ''from'' Gemenon is a Gemenon, but the adjective for describing them is Gemenese. So, like, a nice Gemenese Rug or something. This is a throwback to the language of Gemenese in TOS, I think. Now... Is someone from Caprica Caprican and "a Caprica" or does that one match the adjective (like I'm from Texas, thus I am Texan and "a Texan" if that helps)? Whatcha think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:07, 19 February 2006 (EST)

== Aerilon? ==

Unless someone cites a source on this spelling correction, I think this needs to be reverted. Anyone? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) 19:46, 20 March 2006 (CST)
:Seems like other people are using it: http://s9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=658 the same way. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:52, 20 March 2006 (CST)
::It is also on http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/ on the Celestra bio. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:55, 20 March 2006 (CST)

::: Well, the forum link is inconclusive, as the poster using that spelling questions it himself and is not, quite frankly, a reliable source. The SciFi.com link is more helpful, but still doesn't help much. They have two different spellings for a couple of the Colonies still around their site, so we can't really trust them on this. Does anyone have a copy of the various writings spawned from the show? If the companions and magazines and scifi.com all agreed, even though none of those are on our big list of accepted sources, I'd consider that a pretty good indication that we'd been misspelling it this whole time. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) 20:30, 20 March 2006 (CST)

==Spelling==
This topic keeps coming up, and our spelling conventions do not seem to match the ones generally used throughout fandom, so I want to have a definitive location for sources on spelling used here. Our emphasis, as always, is on citation and accuracy.

The names of six of the colonies can be seen fully spelled out in the episode "Colonial Day". There should be no room for debate on these.
<gallery>
Image:sp-canceron.jpg|Canceron
Image:sp-caprica.jpg|Caprica
Image:sp-gemenon.jpg|Gemenon
Image:sp-leonis.jpg|Leonis
Image:sp-sagittaron.jpg|Sagittaron
Image:sp-virgon.jpg|Virgon
</gallery>

We can also see the first three letters of "Picon": 
[[Image:sp-picon.jpg|sp-picon.jpg]] 
There's no serious controversy here, as no other spelling has been proposed for that colony.

Although not visible in the episode, the spelling of Scorpia can be clearly seen in a high-resolution [http://galactica.emedian.net/episode/1.11/imagepages/image6.html publicity still]: 
[[Image:sp-scorpia.jpg|150px]] 
This is complicated by [[Helena Cain]]'s reference to the "Scorpian Fleet Shipyards" in the episode "[[Pegasus (episode)]]". [[Talk:The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Scorpion vs. Scorpia|Extensive discussion]] on battlestar wiki concluded that the visual evidence should be deferred to, and also suggested that she may have been using "Scorpian" as an adjectival form of the colony's name. This was supported by Michelle Forbes's use of a reduced vowel in the final syllable, while other colony names used throughout the series have used the fully realized vowel /ɑ/.

The names "Aquaria" and "Tauron" were given in "[[Colonial Day]]" and "[[Pegasus (episode)]]", respectively. There is no serious debate on their spelling.

Very little evidence is available regarding the colony corresponding to Libra. Neither it nor its citizens have ever been mentioned in the miniseries or 33 episodes aired to date, nor has RDM mentioned the colony in his blog. SciFi.com's website refers to the [[Space Park]] as being of "Libran" registry, but it is unclear whether this is meant to be the nominal or adjectival form of the colony's name (see below).

The name of the colony corresponding to Aries was named as {{IPA|'ɛɹ.lɑn}} in "[[Bastille Day]]". Two spellings have been proposed. It is worth noting that the second vowel, which is the one at issue, is not actually pronounced by actress Mary McDonnell.

'''AERILON''' 
'''Official Use'''

The SciFi.com website refers to the [[Celestra]] as being of "Aerilon" registry. This is apparently the nominal form, despite the anomalous use of the adjectival "Caprica" on the "Colonial One" entry on the same webpage. (The adjectival forms of Scorpia (Scorpian, established in "[[Pegasus (episode)]]") and Tauron (Tauranian, established in "[[Resistance]]") are not used.)

RDM uses this spelling in a [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000016 blog entry] dated 30 January, 2005.

'''Fan Use'''
*Google returns approximately [http://www.google.com/search?q=aerilon 400 matches] for this spelling.
*This spelling is used by transcript website SadGeezer.com.

'''AERELON''' 
'''Fan Use'''
*Google returns approximately [http://www.google.com/search?q=aerelon 300 matches] for this spelling.
*[http://tviv.org/wiki/Battlestar_Galactica_(2003)/The_Twelve_Colonies TV IV]
--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:34, 23 March 2006 (CST)

== Should I Add This Or Not? ==

On Wikipedia there is a lot more information on the Twelve Colonies, including founders and names of capital cities. Should I add this information to the corresponding colony section on this page or is this information that doesn't belong on this wiki? --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 11:04, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:We're pretty strict about [[BW:CITE|citations]] around here. Unless we can find official sources to back up that info, it doesn't belong here. I'm pretty sure that it hasn't been officially established names for all Twelve Lords of Kobol (if there are exactly twelve, as RDM was a bit vague on this), and I've got no idea where they are getting the capitol names from. If there is an official source, we'd be good, but it feels like this may be derived from fan fiction (which would have NO place on this article) or at best from novelizations/alternate continuity (which could at least be argued, but is still suspect). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:17, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::Understood. I just reviewed the article and it said that the names were non-canonical. In that case, Wikipedia's information has NO place in this article. If the characters start listing off this information in the next seasons (which I SERIOUSLY doubt they will at this point), I can put it in. However, I want to note that I found confirmation for Aerelon's capital (including a photo) and the colony description on Google. You have to type "Aerelon" (make sure it's spelled EXACTLY like that) and then scroll down the top ten results page. The title is simply "Aerelon" and is located two results under the listing for our own wiki. The description starts with "Capital: Maegera"--[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 19:24, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:::That's a fan site. Please read over the [[BW:CITE|Citation Jihad]] for a list of official sources. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:00, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Thank you no end, Homeworld616, for pointing out this grievous error on Wikipedia. *One person* posted their own fanfic into there: they even left a warning label: "These following sections contain equal parts fanon and canon.".....er, it is impossible to be both "fanon" and "canon" at the same time. ----->'''I have personally deleted all of this fanfic from Wikipedia, and warned the user that posted it'''. Sorry, but they get all kinds on wikipedia. Thanks for asking us and bringing it to our attention 616--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:45, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:No problem, Merovingian. It's my pleasure to help make Wikipedia and its associated sites better for all. I can't believe someone actually tried to pass their fanfic off as fact. Oh well, so long as it has been deleted. But we need to watch for other users posting crap around here. Wikipedia's Twelve Colonies may just be the beginning. To quote Shakespeare from ''The Tempest,'' "what is past is prologue." --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 01:12, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Notes on Culture ==

All right, has anyone noticed that in the Colonies, virtually everything that would be a rectangle here on Earth (pictureframe, sheet of paper, etc.) is a ''hexagon''? To cite some examples, in the [[Miniseries]] Roslin is handed a slip of paper describing the Cylon attack on a networked Battlestar. That slip is a hexagon. Adama's picture frame of him, Zak and Lee is also a hexagon. Even the computers are hexagons. Now, a hexagon has 6 sides (half of 12, which is seemingly a symbolic number in the series), and is a practical shape for use (12-gons would be stupid for paper) so does anyone think that the hexagon is some kind of symbolic shape for the Colonials?

Also, in the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]], Starbuck is walking past display cases full of ancient pottery. Culture is transmitted in the form of art and artifacts, so while this may be trivial I feel like it is worth noting.

In addition to this, notice how Elosha's priestess garment is pretty eccentric, while Brother Cavil's uniform is a plain black cassock with some purple decorations. A difference of garb choice for priestesses and priests, perhaps?

Furthermore, in the [[Miniseries]], notice those Caprican mothers carting their babies around the city in those oversized plastic baby carriages that look like they provide too much protection for the tots. Perhaps a link to the Scripture statement saying that life is precious and should be protected? I can't think of any other way for the carriage manufacturer to be willing to put extra money into obtaining more plastic resources for the increased carriage size and safety. No wait, lawsuits... But that still wouldn't explain the supersized babymobiles and extra costs and materials needed for manufacturing.

Cereals! In [[Sacrifice]] (I think, I'm not sure), Roslin tells an aggressive Billy Keikaya, "Looks like someone ate their Wheaties today." Okay, so...General Mills was actually a ''Colonial'' corporation and they imported it to Earth while we weren't looking. This might just imply that the Colonials also ate Cascadian Farm, Frescarini, Lucky Charms, Chex Mix, Cheerios, Hamburger Helper...the list goes on. Either that or I'm just making a big deal over some trivial prodcut placement.

Finally, in TOS, most of the buildings in Caprica (with exception of Long Beach City Hall where the episode was filmed), were pyramids. In the RDM series, there aren't as many pyramids, but there are a couple in Caprica City (let me get the image). Since there is circumstantial evidence that life began on Earth, does anyone think these pyramids could be a link with the Egyptians, who already had a thriving civilization and the Giza pyramids built by the time Greece (and perhaps the Kobol-sect) became an ancient powerhouse?

Taking all of this into consideration, should I initiate a "Culture" section for the Twelve Colonies (RDM)? --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:36, 3 July 2006 (CDT)
:According the the episode transcript...
:'''[[Laura Roslin]]''': Someone took their vitamins this morning. 
:'''[[Billy Keikeya]]''': Yeah, I don't know what got into me. 
:--''[[Sacrifice]]''
:There's an "[[Arts and Literature of the Twelve Colonies|arts and lit article]]" under construction for the 12 Colonies seriesthat might be a home for some of the architecture, pottery, etc. notes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:08, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks, Steelviper. I'll look into that. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 15:18, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

[[Image:Mini-Caprica City.jpg]]
Here's the image. Look to the FAR right hand side and note the two pyramid office buildings, one with steep lateral faces and the other looking kind of like a glass reproduction of the Giza pyramids. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:41, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

Arts and Lit is where we're working on that. Note, that it's really just an in-joke from the Miniseries: they had to "cut corners" on the production due to budget restraints, so it started out as a joke that they were "cutting corners" on everything. The problem was, as this series progressed this became a logistical nightmare, as literally hours of work had to be spent into doing this, i.e. stacks of books in Cain's quarters. As for the image....I'm sorry but it's too vague to actually make out if it's anything. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:24, 3 July 2006 (CDT)

== Links ==

Folks, I've noticed there's some ambiguity going on with the Wiki reference links, and I think we should probably straighten them out. In short, do we want to link to the astrological sign, or the constellations? I note this because I just cleaned up a few of the links before realizing this should be discussed, as (for example), someone had [[Wikipedia:Capricorn|Capricorn]] point to the WP page there, which is a disambig page, instead of [[Wikipedia:Capricorn (astrology)|Capricorn (astrology)]] or [[Wikipedia:Capricornus|Capricorn'''us''']] (the constellation; note the spelling, as there's at least one more constellation that swings this way - [[Wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpius]]). Just a thought or two to muddy the waters further. ^_^--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 22:00, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:I'd prefer to link to the constellations. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:08, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:: Done and done, then.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:44, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

A Measure of Salvation

2006-11-14T15:50:58Z

TaKometer:

{{Episode Data
| title= A Measure of Salvation
| image= Amos.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 7
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]]
| story=
| director= [[Bill Eagles]]
| production= 307
| rating=
| US airdate= November 10, 2006
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,420
| prev= [[Torn]]
| next= [[Hero]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[Lee Adama|Apollo]] and [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] are dispatched to investigate the derelict baseship. They find the humanoid [[Cylons]] dying from a virulent disease, which inspires [[Lee Adama]] to come up with a desperate plan against their enemy.''

== Summary ==
=== On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' ===
*A boarding party comprising of [[Raptor]]s and [[Viper Mark VII|Vipers]] investigate the derelict [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]. Among the boarding party are [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] and [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]].
*Aboard the derelict, [[marines]] explore the corridors, finding the [[Cylon agent|Cylons]] dead. Athena attempts to access the derelict basestar's [[Hybrid]], but is unsuccessful.
*Some "skinjobs" around the control center revive and advise the boarding party of the situation regarding the probe and subsequent infection of the Cylons. One of the infected Cylons, a [[Number Eight]], addresses Athena as "traitor."
*The boarding party and prisoners are en route back to ''Galactica'' when the basestar self-destructs.
*''Galactica'' quarantines the boarding party and prisoners while Dr. [[Cottle]] finds out if the virus affects humans. The human members of the boarding party are cleared while Athena is ordered to stay put, as her blood work hasn't been done. [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] is infuriated, but wants to be notified as soon as her results are available.
*Dr. Cottle's investigation identifies [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|a virus]] that can be treated, but not cured for Cylons. [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]], [[William Adama|Admiral Adama]], Lee Adama, and Helo discuss the idea of taunting the vaccine in exchange for information. A [[Simon]] is brought before them, and informs them that the entire baseship was abandoned, because [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]] would infect the others. He also mentions that [[Gaius Baltar]] provided the information on the path to [[Earth]].
*Aboard ''[[Colonial One]]'', Lee Adama suggests a plan to eliminate the entire Cylon race by executing their prisoners in range of a [[Resurrection Ship]], where the downloaded consciousnesses would infect the remaining Cylons, because according to [[Simon]] the virus carries a bioelectric feedback component that could spread it even through the download process. Helo scoffs at the idea, considering it genocide.
*Aboard ''Galactica'', Athena finds she's immune because of antibodies generated within her body by carrying her daughter, [[Hera]]. Helo tells her of the Fleet's plan, and Athena understands.
*Admiral Adama shows slight dissent about the plan, indicating regulations that forbid him to proceed without presidential order. Despite the ethical ramifications, the President authorizes the biological attack.
*''Galactica'' jumps to a Cylon supply line, and launches Vipers and Raptors to attract the Cylon fleet. In the midst of this, Helo initiates a plan to thwart the execution, unplugging what looks like a standard power connector from an environmental control box.
*The Cylons jump into the area, with Resurrection Ship in tow. Adama orders the execution of the prisoners.
*Lee Adama leads a team to execute the prisoners, but finds that all the prisoners have been killed prior to the Resurrection Ship arriving. Adama orders a recall, and ''Galactica'' escapes without sustaining any major damage.
*Helo converses with Athena about his actions. He maintains that what he did was right, regardless of the consequences.
*Aboard ''Galactica'', Adama reports that the prisoners were suffocated due to a failure in the environmental controls. Roslin is quick to point out one or two might be responsible, but Adama closes the issue. Subsequently, the virus was most likely an accidental exposure, similar to one reported 3000 years ago. Adama points out that they're on the right track to Earth, but Roslin notes that the Cylons are on the right track as well.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===

*Aboard the bastestar, Baltar is being interrogated by Three and Caprica-Six, knowing about the beacon. Three and Caprica-Six imply that Baltar is connected to the virus and to Galactica. Baltar attempts to reconcile, only to be confronted by Centurions.
*In his "projection", his mental Six tells him to relax. Meanwhile, his body is being subjected to torture; Caprica Six is visibly disturbed by the torture and backs away.
*Baltar's torture continues as Three continues to interrogate Baltar regarding his supposed involvement with the virus. In his mind, he attemps to avert the pain by making love to his mental Six. Despite extreme pain, Baltar endures.

== Questions ==

* If [[Adama]] had brought the beacon aboard, what kind of information would it have given them about the location of Earth?
* Will [[Caprica-Six]] continue to stand by and permit Baltar's mistreatment at their hands?
* Where is Caprica-Six's own internal Baltar in all of this?
* Of the Cylons, which type told the basestar to self-destruct: The [[Hybrid]] or a [[Cylon agent]]? Considering her odd look after the destruction, might it have been [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]]?
* What kind of new start are the [[Cylon]]s planning for [[Earth]]? Just a new home planet, an attempt at human Cylon relations not tainted by the destruction of the Twelve Colonies, or something else?
* Why did an entire Cylon fleet (including a [[Resurrection Ship]]) jump to the encounter with ''Galactica''? Why was the [[Resurrection Ship]] not left behind somewhere else, as it was done in previous battles?
* Is D'anna in love with Baltar?
* Why is [[Gaeta]] so surprised to hear that Baltar is alive, given the fact that he was actually there when D'Anna offered Baltar to be evacuated from New Caprica?
* Why does [[Simon]] so quickly claim science can not provide a solution to the infection?
* Why wasn't the execution squad in place and waiting with the prisoners so the plan could have been implemented in a timely manner?
* Since the plan was to execute the prisoners then jump away, why wasn't the jump drive already spun up and ready?
* The environmental controls seem to have been circumvented by [[Karl Agathon]] pulling a single plug. In a combat ship aren't there cascading fail safe systems to protect against such catastrophic failures from simple system malfunctions?
** We simply may not have seen Helo pull the other plugs.
* In his discussion with [[Laura Roslin]] at the end of the episode, [[Admiral Adama]] is aware that sabotage was involved in the death of the Cylon prisoners, yet he states there will be no investigation. While he might be relieved that the plan wasn't carried out, wouldn't he be seriously concerned and want to aggressively pursue this matter?
** We have seen Adama do this sort of thing before, with regards to the rigged election. In both cases, he already has an idea of who the guilty party was, so no real investigation is necessary.
*[[Baltar]] calls the [[Number Three]] torturing him "D'anna". Is she, or at least does Baltar believe she is, the same number 3 that was previously masquerading in the fleet as a reporter?
*Has Starbuck regained full flight status, because she tried to pull her life together at the end of "[[Torn]]", or does she participate in the battle due to a pressing need for pilots?
*Will there be any consequences of the sabotage for Helo and Athena from other crewmembers who may figure they are behind said sabotage? How will this affect Helo's reputation as a Cylon-lover or his credibility as XO.
*Since the Cylon prisoners died after the jump, did they download and spread the infection despite Helo's sabotage? Raiders generally operate within range of a Resurrection Ship and ''Galactica'' encountered two Raiders immediately after the jump.

== Analysis ==

*The Cylons could have cured themselves of this plague relatively quickly, if ''Galactica'' had succeeded in infecting them. It was quickly noted in the episode that Sharon was immune herself because fetal cells from [[Hera]] created effective antibodies against the virus. Hera is immune to the virus because she is a hybrid Human-Cylon. Now that she is in custody of the Cylons, Baltar could have utilized her immunity, as he previously did on Roslin, as capital to further his self-preservation amongst them.
**It can be assumed that executing the captured Cylons will send them back to the Resurrection ship, thus infecting the Cylon network. However, the Human-Cylon hybrid has no extra copies on the Resurrection ship to transfer into, thus the antibodes will not be spread into the Cylon Network.
*The wider implications of such an event could have been religiously meaningful to the Cylons. Cylons have time and again shown religious deference by sometimes overlooking rational explanations. By saving the Cylon race Hera could have been elevated to messiah status, if her very creation has not already ordained her as one to the Cylons because their God proclaimed her creation.
**The presence of Hera is profound enough to the Cylons, which could be preventing them from seeing that Hera could be used as a tool.
*There is a fundamental flaw in the plan [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] develops: Even if the virus successfully infects the [[Resurrection Ship]], the other Cylons would isolate that individual ship, thus preventing a widespread epidemic. The resulting impact on the Cylon fleet would be no greater than previous destruction of the Resurrection Ship in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]".
**Apollo's plan is based on an account of the Cylon analysis of the threat; he could simply assume they are correct and that the virus can spread like wildfire from one Resurrection Ship to another.
**Also, by infecting a greater mass of ships, Galactica could board the ships, take much needed resources and more infected Cylons for further use as biological weapons.
*The science of the virus is somewhat questionable. While the biological aspect is sound, the existence of a "bioelectrical feedback component" appears to be technobabble. It would be impossible for a biological virus (i.e. a physical pathogen) to be transmitted by download to the Resurrection Ship. Such a feedback - scrambling the brainwave patterns - could disrupt the download process, but it is unclear how it could spread the virus itself on the other side. It simply may be a case of cylon superstition, which is known to happen from time to time.
**From Dr. Cottle's dialogue, it would appear that the problem lies with how the Cylons' immune systems reacts with the virus, more than the virus itself. If this is the case, it is likely that the immune system's reaction would carry though the download and possibly be passed to other Cylons througout the network.
**Conceptually, there is actually very little difference between a physical and a computer virus. Both usurp cell function. Moreover, if the virus is a retrovirus, its genome (be it physical or digital) will be transcribed into the cellular DNA, which might be downloaded to the Resurrection Ship.
*Dr. Cottle explains that Cylons carry antibodies that break down the RNA of his proposed vaccine. However antibodies have no degradative functionality, and only prime recognised pathogens for phagocytosis, though he may have simplified the explination. But as vaccines are developed from the pathonogenic organism (or a close relative) it would be impossible for the Cylons to carry antibodies specific for the vaccine RNA (or for the products it encodes) or otherwise they would be immune to the pathonogenic virus itself.
: Antibodies certainly do have disrupting and degrading capabilities, though this particular explanation for vaccine failure is a bit of a stretch. Vaccines are composed of antigens which stimulate an immunological response. Antigens are the item the immune system reacts to, antibodies are produced by the immune system (by B-Lymphocytes – Lymphocytes are a type of white blood cell) and are specific to a single antigen. (T-Lymphocytes are also involved, but along a different pathway.) There are several classes of antibodies and each is slightly different in its action, but generally they attack a cell by attaching to the corresponding antigen on the cell exterior and cause the cell to rupture, prevent it from replicating, or stimulate other mechanisms to attack the targeted cell. Phagocytosis by the macrophages (a different white cell) is a cleanup mechanism which may include some pathogens, but is generally directed at the cellular debris remaining after the antibodies have done their work. Most vaccines are composed of either dead or weakened cells or cellular surface components from the target pathogen. These antigenic cellular components are generally protein, lipoprotein (proteins with a fatty component) or lipids (fats) which are unique to the target’s exterior (cell membrane, cell wall, or cell coating depending on the class of organism.) While any type of foreign nucleic acid could potentially produce a substantial immunological response, it is unlikely that any RNA that might have been included in the vaccine (such as in a killed cell) would have had any bearing on the vaccine functionality.
::Antibodies also locally generate ozone as a degradative function.
*Adama's reaction to the premature death of the prisoners is yet another example of what are simultaneously his greatest virtues and most glaring flaws - his dedication to those under his command, and his need to keep his conscience clear.
*In this episode, [[Raptors]] are shown loaded to the teeth with weapons systems. In the past ([[Miniseries]], [[The Hand of God]]), Raptors have rarely been depicted in actual combat, preferring instead to hang back while coordinating battlefield logistics. They have been shown armed in a few prior episodes ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], [[Fragged]]), but this is by far their most prominent combat role to date. The Raptors are using the external missile pods and cannons introduced in "Exodus, Part [[Exodus, Part I|I]] & [[Exodus, Part II|II]]" and engage in the same maneuver used to launch the decoy drones during the Battle of New Caprica.
*The genetic pool the Cylons were created from predates the human immunity to the plague from just a couple hundred years ago, yet the Cylons, even as a class of machines, are only 40 to 60 years old. This indicates another, non-Colonial, source for the DNA.
**The genetic pool need not be so old. Because humans had been completely immune to this virus for hundreds of years, the Cylons may have simply overlooked it while creating their biological models.
*It seems this virus could also be a fairly reliable (although not conclusive) litmus test to for Cylons in the Colonial Fleet.
*It seems reasonable to assume that if Baltar is not infected with the virus, he is not a Cylon, likewise for all members of the ''Galactica'' crew who boarded the baseship.
**Baltar was in an isolation suit the entire time he was on the basestar. Using standard biohazard procedures, he would have remained in the suit which would have been disinfected from the outside before he took it off.
**Baltar could also be a different, more advanced model of Cylon in the beta-testing stage--a model that is immune (hence the secrecy of the other models).

== Notes ==
*[[Survivor count|Fleet population]] is 41,420. Barring any births, there is an unaccounted loss of at least two since "[[Torn]]".
*The story behind the Lion Nebula beacon and the virus may have been inspired by the lunar lander [[wikipedia:Surveyor 3|Surveyor 3]]. Before launching in 1967, its camera was accidentally contaminated by a common bacterium. When the camera was recovered by Apollo 12 astronauts, the microbes returned to life, having survived two and a half years of vacuum, radiation, and temperature extremes.
*This is the first episode in which [[Saul Tigh]] has not appeared, more than likely due to his promise to William Adama at the end of "Torn" after Adama's confrontation with both Tigh and Kara Thrace. Currently, the only characters to have appeared in every episode are [[Laura Roslin]] and [[William Adama]].
*Helo has been promoted to the rank of Captain, as evident in both dialogue and costuming.
*Starbuck appears to have returned to flight status following her decision to pull herself together at the end of "[[Torn]]".
*Dr. Cottle identifies the disease as [[Lymphocytic encephalitis]], however [[w:encephalitis|encephalitis]] is a condition (swelling of the brain) that can be caused by a pathogen, not a pathogen itself. More likely the pathogen is [[wikipedia:Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus|Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus]].
*In [[Podcast:A Measure of Salvation|his podcast]], Moore notes that this episode shares similarities to the ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: The Next Generation|Star Trek: The Next Generation]]'' episode, "[[MemoryAlpha:I, Borg|I, Borg]]", though he does not mention the episode by name. Moore also noted that this episode was brought up for discussion during the writer's meetings to discuss development of this episode, as "I, Borg" discussed using a lone [[MemoryAlpha:Hugh|Borg drone]] implanted with a computer virus to infect the [[MemoryAlpha:Borg|Borg collective]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
* [[Rick Worthy]] as [[Simon]]
* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
* [[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
* [[imdb:nm0669826|Eileen Pedde]] as Sgt. [[Mathias]]
* [[imdb:nm0461101|Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]] (credited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:RDM]]