Talk:Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)/Archive 1

2008-01-07T19:50:29Z

Swozie:

Pythia

2008-01-07T18:55:26Z

Swozie:

:''For information on the religious writings in the [[Original Series]], see [[Kobollian Faith]].''
__NOTOC__

[[Image:Pythia.jpg|thumb|right|A closeup of the Book of Pythia.]]

'''Pythia''' was an ancient human [[oracle]], believed to have been one of the writers of the [[Sacred Scrolls]], some 3,600 years prior to the events of the [[Miniseries]] and the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|destruction]] of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies of Kobol]].

Pythia's writings are both obscure and yet well-known: obscure, in that her entire writings are not widely studied among modern Colonials, but well-known in that extracts are widely quoted, often out of context, such as the following:
:''"All this has happened before. All this will happen again."''<ref>This is actually the opening from "[[wikipedia:Peter Pan (1953 film)|Peter Pan]]", which [[Ron D. Moore]] cites as his source. {{cite_rdm_podcast|episode=Frak Party Q and A|act=|id=peterpan|timestamp=23:28|totalrunning=78:27}}</ref>

Key to Pythia's writings are two passages, relating to the exile and rebirth of the human race:
:''"And the Lords anointed a leader to guide the caravan of the heavens to their new homeland. And unto the leader, they gave a vision of serpents, numbering two and ten, as a sign of things to come."''

President [[Laura Roslin]], while giving a press briefing 36 days into the flight of the surviving Colonials, had a [[Chamalla|hallucination]] that her podium showed two snakes crawling on it, and then a dozen ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]). Additionally, Pythia wrote that the anointed leader had a "wasting illness" and would not live to enter the new land; Roslin is dying of cancer at the time.

In the second passage, Pythia foretells of an initial battle in which the Colonials are "lead by serpents two and ten" and are victorious over their foes. During their flight from the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]], the Colonials are forced to attack a Cylon base in order to obtain [[tylium|fuel]]. The attack is lead by twelve [[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]] (''The Hand of God''). However, Pythia's writings on the battle fortells it leading to a larger confrontation, this time "at the [[Kobol (RDM)|home of the Gods]]." ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])<ref>According to Ron Moore on 8/26/2005 -- There used to be a Cylon attack after this whole thing with Sharon went down. The centurions came and attacked during the upcoming planetarium sequence. And we eventually cut that... We changed this very moment right here, where Adama gets the gun. It was a late change in the editing room. Originally he took that gun and put it to Sharon's head. And we were playing the beat of will he shoot Sharon or not. And then we just made that lift within the last week, so it plays out more emotionally here, instead of putting another gun to another person's head. (source: The Home, Part II podcast) </ref>

The writings of Pythia appear to have particular interest to the Cylons. [[Leoben Conoy]] used quotes from Pythia during his interrogation, and goes on to point out to [[Kara Thrace]] that while her people kneel before idols, "You don't realise your destiny has already been written" — another reference to Pythia's foretelling of the exile ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

It is unclear, particularly in the context of "all this has happened before" if Pythia is writing history which repeats, or prophecy or both. Her writings are always in the past tense, and some phrases clearly refer to past events (the journey to Earth) while in other instances it is said she has "foretold" events. However, text from the book of Pythia is used to help locate the [[Tomb of Athena]] which is alleged to be constructed during the great exodus 1,600 years after her writing. ([[Home, Part II]])

== Greek Parallels ==

The Pythia was a Sibyl, the [[Wikipedia:Pythia|Oracle of Delphi]]. While the temple at [[Wikipedia:Delphi|Delphi]] was closely identified with [[Wikipedia:Gaia_mythology|Gaia]], the mother of Earth (and responsible for laying the foundations for the Olympian gods), Delphi itself had a close association with Apollo.

== Roman Parallels ==

The [[w:Sibylline Books|Sibylline Books]] or Sibyllae were a collection of oracular utterances, set out in Greek hexameters, purchased from a ''[[w:Sibyl|sibylla]]'', meaning ''prophetess'' in Greek, by the last king of Rome, [[w:Lucius Tarquinius Superbus|Tarquinius Superbus]]. These books were consulted at momentous crises through the history of Rome and only fragments have survived, the rest being lost or deliberately destroyed.

The Sibylline Books should not be confused with the so-called Sibylline Oracles, twelve books of prophesies thought to be of Judaeo-Christian origin.

==See also==
* [[Sacred Scrolls]]
* [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies]]
* [[Dodona Selloi]]

== External Links ==
{{ext-wikipedia|article = Pythia}}

== References ==

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[[Category:A to Z|Pythia]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial History (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Pythia]]

Talk:Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)/Archive 1

2008-01-07T17:36:23Z

Swozie:

2008-01-07T13:15:50Z

Swozie:

Talk:Timeline (RDM)/Archive5

2008-01-07T13:15:18Z

Swozie:

Talk:Timeline (RDM)/Archive5

2008-01-06T13:43:38Z

Swozie:

2007-12-26T14:10:09Z

Swozie:

{{plausible speculation}}
The [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons']] transformation into twelve distinct [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid forms]] introduces serious problems for the remnant of humanity known as the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] to identify Cylon operative from human. At the beginning of their journey it seemed that anyone could be a humanoid Cylon, causing doubt and suspicion within the human populace (as evidenced in "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]").

In the real world speculation about who could be a Cylon infiltrator in the Fleet has also been rife among fans of the show. Over the course of the miniseries and the first two seasons viewers were introduced to the "[[Significant Seven]]", however the natures of each of these characters were all revealed shortly after the characters' introductions.

In season three the nature of speculation for both the characters and the fans turned to the [[Final Five]], enigmatic, almost-mystical figures who seemed to have a [[The Temple of Five|link]] to ancient colonial history. The nature of the five, according to [[Ron D. Moore|Moore]], is "fundamentally different" from the other seven models<ref>{{cite_rdm_podcast|episode=Frak Party Q and A|act=|id=ffdifferent|timestamp=19:05|totalrunning=78:27}}</ref>.

At the conclusion of "[[Crossroads, Part II]]" four recurring characters are revealed to be Cylons. The revelation that long standing characters such as Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] and Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] were Cylons blew the field wide open, if they could be "[[toaster]]s," then ''anyone'' could be the last Cylon. In particular, Tigh has a long and well-documented character history dating back to the first [[Cylon War]].

This article details [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad#Derived content|plausible speculation]] on which of the central and supporting characters in ''[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]]'' could be the final one.

==Clues from Official Sources==
During a Q&A session on the official Sci Fi channel Battlestar Galactica forum Ronald D. Moore notes that he already knows who the last Cylon is, and that he's already left clues as to who it is<ref>[http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2270103&st=0&p=3041263&#entry3041263 20 Answers - SCI FI FORUMS] Retrieved 03-27-2007</ref>.

[[Bradley Thompson]] was asked when the writers knew the identity of the final five:
:"Four of the five were recent. If memory serves, the fifth (which may change) we've been kicking around since about the end of Season One."<ref>[[BW:OC#Identity of the Final Five]]</ref>

==General factors for consideration==
In terms of narrative, to prevent an anti-climax it seems likely that the final Cylon would probably need to be a more prominent character than those of the Four. This centers the spotlight in the central "human" characters ([[Roslin]], [[William Adama|William]] and [[Lee Adama]], [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] and [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]). However, there is still an entire season for characters to develop and gain significance with viewers.

With the Final Five being "fundamentally different" from the Seven, extrapolating any characteristics we learned of Cylons from the Seven (including physiology, loyalty or self-awareness) is of questionable validity.

Colonel Tigh has a well documented history stretching back at least to the first Cylon War. Also considering the [[Temple of Five]], Final Five Cylons, somehow, significantly pre-date the Seven.

It has been seen that Cylons can start families, however it is unclear how the Five came to exist. Having known natural parents would ''seem'' to preclude one being any more than half-Cylon.

Of the 11 so far there have been only four female models (and [[Number Three|one]] has been [[boxed]]). The final Cylon being female would serve to equalize this gender bias.

The [[first Hybrid]] gives a monologue about his knowledge of the Final Five in the extended version of "[[Razor]]". It states that "...the fifth is still is in shadow, drawn toward the light, hungering for redemption, that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering."

==Characters==

With the exception of [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Cally Tyrol]], who are confirmed to have half-Cylon, half-human children<ref>{{cite_rdm_podcast|episode=Frak Party Q and A|act=|id=hybridnick|timestamp=22:41|totalrunning=78:27}}</ref>, any "human" character could be a Cylon.

===[[Laura Roslin]]===
[[Image:Laura_Roslin_promo.jpg|right|90px]]
The colonies' president has been unquestionably a boon to humanity's search for earth, indeed the two times she has been removed from office have been the two greatest setbacks in the journey. Though her loyalty is unquestionable, her past is more difficult to ascertain. Roslin has never discussed her family in any way.

Roslin has also experienced prophetic dreams and visions (those induced by [[chamalla]], and a dream she shared with the Cylons [[Caprica Six]] and [[Sharon Agathon]]). She fits very well the profile of the [[Sacred Scrolls|scroll's]] dying leader, the scrolls also having links to other more mystical elements of the series, including the [[Temple of Five]].

However her dying nature, from an aggressive form of breast cancer is also the biggest cause to doubt Roslin being a Cylon. It is unknown whether the Final Five can succumb to cancer, but Cylons seem to be generally tougher than humans. Baltar's cure in "[[Epiphanies]]" was probably designed based on the assumption that Roslin's physiology is human.

===[[William Adama]]===
[[Image:William_Adama_promo.jpg|right|90px]]
If William Adama were revealed to be a Cylon, it would be one of the biggest shocks the series could produce. Overall Adama appears to epitomize a very human set of strengths and weaknesses. Nevertheless, he does experience hallucinations in the fifth [[Razor Flashback]], although he sees and hears people in his environment instead of seeing himself in a different one. The experience could also be explained by stress or other factors, however.

The Adama family is well documented. His father, [[Joseph Adama]], was known to [[Romo Lampkin]]. The proposed spin-off ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'', would have featured the history of the Adama family. This may have been difficult to square with any revelation about William Adama being a Cylon.

William Adama experiences guilt for actions he believe may have triggered the war ([[Hero]]). This could be the "hungering for redemption" that the [[First Hybrid]] talks about (see above).

===[[Lee Adama]]===
[[Image:Lee_Adama_promo.jpg|right|90px]]
Could Lee's chronic angst be partly due to guilt at his Cylon nature? Was the [[Leoben]] who said "Adama's a Cylon" ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]) referring to Lee? (note: the writers hadn't decided on the identity of the final Cylon at that point). He might project in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]", although this is more likely an oxygen deprivation induced hallucination.

In his defense, Lee is also a member of the well-documented Adama family. A "switched at birth" scenario could explain this.

Lee is characterised by near chronic angst for various reasons. Could he be the one "hungering for redemption"?

===[[Gaius Baltar]]===
[[Image:Gaius_Baltar_promo.jpg|right|90px]]
{{mainarticle|Baltar as Cylon speculation}}
Baltar's vast intelligence, weak character and lack of loyalty to anyone but himself have made him ultimately humanity's (unwitting) betrayer. Baltar himself longs to be a Cylon as this would absolve himself, however comes to the conclusion that he is human after all. Baltar certainly has a lot to be guilty about, but whether he has enough of a conscience to be truly "hungering for redemption" is questionable.

There are good reasons to suspect Baltar. He exhibits vast intelligence that may be superhuman in nature. His [[Virtual Six]], her precognitive abilities, and the apparently projected environments they often co-experience are suspicious, as well as the fact that both Virtual Six and later the [[Hybrid]] tell him that he is "chosen".

In [[Caprica Six]]'s final vision in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]" she sees the hooded figures of the final five staring at her from the upper level. Baltar is standing next to her in the vision as well.

===[[Kara Thrace]]===
[[Image:Kara_Thrace.jpg|right|90px]]
{{seealso|The Destiny}}
Kara Thrace's path towards her destiny has involved many strange, perhaps supernatural events. Whether this destiny involves her being a Cylon is a matter of speculation (indeed members of the [[Significant Seven]], who do not know who the final five are, tell Starbuck she has this destiny), but it is certain Thrace is ''something'' special.

Certainly Thrace exhibits phenomenal natural skill as a pilot, and manages to learn to fly a [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]] exceptionally quickly ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]). From childhood, Thrace has been drawing the mandala from the [[Temple of Five]]. However she was also physically abused as a child and still carries the scars; Cylons seem to be more robust than humans and possibly may not carry such long-term injuries. The same may be said of the knee injury which put a stop to Thrace's [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] playing ambitions.

Most strikingly, the ace pilot apparently dies in "[[Maelstrom]]" but returns ([[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrected]]?) in "[[Crossroads, Part II]]". Furthermore, not being on ''Galactica'' at the time, Thrace is the only major "human" character who has a reason for not reacting to the [[The Music|music]] which, to the "four", reverberates around the ship. However the final Cylon may, for some reason, not have heard it, or may have ignored it.

[[Katee Sackhoff]] was apparently told she is not a Cylon<ref>[http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8547/redeye3copyci7.jpg See this magazine cutting.]</ref>.

{{spoilli|According to [http://roadrunnerdm.livejournal.com/84288.html this source] as of [[411|Season 4, episode 11]] Kara Thrace believes herself to be a Cylon, whilst Katee Sackhoff believes otherwise}}

===[[Virtual beings]]===
The virtual beings (possibly including the [[virtual Leoben]]) may actually be a single entity, the final Cylon being more spiritual than corporal. Virtual Six claims to be an angel from the Cylon God, which could be roughly correlated with the "the five priests devoted to the one whose name cannot be spoken" from [[Pythia]]. The overall actions of these beings seem to be neither pro-Cylon or pro-human, which fits with the Final five being a third party in the dynamic of the battle.

None of the other final five members have shown similar characteristics to this, and there is no particular reason to suggest the final Cylon is greatly different from his or her four "siblings".

==External Links==
[http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/422026/the_last_cylon_who_is_the_fifth_of.html An essay on the identity of the final Cylon]

[http://www.battlestarforum.com/showthread.php?t=387 The Final Five explained]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]
{{POV Real}}