Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Crossroads, Part II/Archive1

2007-03-15T17:29:31Z

Straycat0: /* Predictions */

== Promo Pics ==
Are [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/gallery/000aaqbh here]. Hard believe that's the last for Season 3. However, they may release a few more for this episode. At least there's the 2-hr movie between seasons. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:03, 27 February 2007 (CST)

That promo pic of Six, Baltar, and Hera appears to be shot in the "Final Five" room. Anyone else notice this? [[User:Paulmooreparks|Paulmooreparks]] 19:57, 28 February 2007 (CST)

: Yes, indeed I did. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:02, 28 February 2007 (CST)

::Baltar's been having visions of Six and Hera in the opera house since season 1, so it's not necessarily connected to the Final Five. Since this episode will reveal 1 or 4 of the Final Five depending on which interview you go by, there's a pretty good chance that it relates to them as well. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:16, 28 February 2007 (CST)

:::Am I completely off-base in thinking that that's Virtual Baltar alongside Virtual Six? Because the other photos of that episode show the "real" Baltar still quite disheveled with a thick beard while that Baltar is clean-shaven, not unlike Caprica's Baltar. Didn't Ron Moore say something about the two alter-egos being key figures in the last episodes of the season? --[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 04:50, 3 March 2007 (CST)

::::Not really "off base", in fact I think that's the most popular theory in general. So unless we're all off base.....which is admitedly possible :P --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 07:37, 3 March 2007 (CST)

:::::If they are able to interact with eachother it would have significant implications regarding their nature. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 17:50, 7 March 2007 (CST)

::::::The virtual Baltar normally wears the unique pinstripe suit from the Miniseries, which I don't see here. I do believe this is a visualization and that is Virtual Six, for the Opera House doesn't exist. If the two alter-egos do somehow directly interact, some Serious Shit will ensure, but damned if I can really glean what. This is as big of a season stumper as season 2's cliffhanger. And, no, Kara Thrace will NOT be one of the Five. But it may be, in my guess, one of these three, although they don't realize it: Dualla, Tigh, or Gaeta. I still hold exception to the fact that what Three saw may be the five priests of the Temple of Five, who just so happen to have incarnations in the current timeline. (Note the monkey that exited my anus and is waving at you). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:44, 13 March 2007 (CDT)

==Predictions==
Well, it's early, and I don't care to step on Slander's toes, but I have forseen an event in Crossroads, Part II. The top 5 American Idol contestants cameo as... '''THE FINAL FIVE!'''
*I'd like to make a motion that all Predictions in Talk pages be deleted as they are assinine and serve no other purpose than to promote the person making the prediction. Predictions should be in Forums and chatrooms or discussion groups, not here.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 12:29, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

Talk:The Son Also Rises/Archive 1

2006-12-20T14:15:42Z

Straycat0: /* Ick..Not a "Trial" Cliffhanger?! */

== Ick..Not a "Trial" Cliffhanger?! ==

I was hoping for a little action cliffhanger, a'la ''Star Trek: Next Generation'''s "Best of Both Worlds, Part I." But I suspect we're getting "The Trial of Gaius Baltar." The title of this ep suggests that this is a Lee Adama story, but the curious Q&A with Katee Sackhoff a few weeks ago might indicate something else...I just don't know. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:39, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:Spence, what interview are you referring to and what did Katee say that makes you so curious?--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 08:15, 20 December 2006 (CST)

The Son Also Rises

2006-12-20T11:44:25Z

Straycat0: /* Official Statements */

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= The Son Also Rises
| season= 3
| episode= 18
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]]
| story=
| director= [[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[Maelstrom]]
| next= [[Crossroads, Part I]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Coming soon <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/the-son-also-rises/episode/832191/summary.html?tag=ep_list;title;17|title=The Son Also Rises }}</ref>''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*The title "The Son Also Rises" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s3/317.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.
*As always, episode titles can and do change up until the time they are finally aired.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
*Ron D Moore, in his November 29, 2006 blog, stated that Mark Sheppard would play a major role in the last three episodes of the season.

*According to the podcast The Battlestar Roundtable, [[Mark Sheppard]] will play [[Romo Lampkin]], a very unusual man who talks too much and is a lawyer involved in a very important case in the Colonial Fleet. His story arc will carry through the last 3 episodes of the season.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Mark Sheppard]] as [[Romo Lampkin]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Son Also Rises

2006-12-20T11:43:30Z

Straycat0:

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= The Son Also Rises
| season= 3
| episode= 18
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]]
| story=
| director= [[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[Maelstrom]]
| next= [[Crossroads, Part I]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Coming soon <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/the-son-also-rises/episode/832191/summary.html?tag=ep_list;title;17|title=The Son Also Rises }}</ref>''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*The title "The Son Also Rises" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s3/317.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.
*As always, episode titles can and do change up until the time they are finally aired.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
*Ron D Moore, in his November 29, 2006 blog, stated that Mark Sheppard would play a major role in the last three episodes of the season.

*According to the podcast The Battlestar Roundtable, Mark Sheppard will play [[Romo Lampkin]], a very unusual man who talks too much and is a lawyer involved in a very important case in the Colonial Fleet. His story arc will carry through the last 3 episodes of the season.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Mark Sheppard]] as [[Romo Lampkin]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Son Also Rises

2006-12-20T11:42:26Z

Straycat0:

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= The Son Also Rises
| season= 3
| episode= 18
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]]
| story=
| director= [[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[Maelstrom]]
| next= [[Crossroads, Part I]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Coming soon <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/the-son-also-rises/episode/832191/summary.html?tag=ep_list;title;17|title=The Son Also Rises }}</ref>''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*The title "The Son Also Rises" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s3/317.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.
*As always, episode titles can and do change up until the time they are finally aired.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
*Ron D Moore, in his November 29, 2006 blog, stated that Mark Sheppard would play a major role in the last three episodes of the season.

*According to the podcast The Battlestar Roundtable, Mark Sheppard will play [Romo Lampkin], a very unusual man who talks too much and is a lawyer involved in a very important case in the Colonial Fleet. His story arc will carry through the last 3 episodes of the season.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Mark Sheppard]] as [[Romo Lampkin]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Woman King

2006-12-20T11:32:30Z

Straycat0: /* Notes */

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= The Woman King
| season= 3
| episode= 14
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]
| next= [[A Day in the Life]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[Helo]] investigates the claims of Sagittarons that a doctor is discriminating against them by providing substandard medical care.

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
The title "The Woman King" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s3/313.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
[[Bradley Thompson]] [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques#Episode 13|confirmed]] that "The Woman King" is the working title for this episode, but cannot comment on unofficially released storylines. He also states that working titles can change right up to the moment the show debuts.

== Guest Stars ==

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Woman King, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Woman King, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Woman King, The]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

2006-12-18T17:10:43Z

Straycat0: /* Human Nicknames */

I wonder if it has to do with that big red spot... *rollseyes* --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:48, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I'm more reminded of that Writer's Podcast thing, you know when they're saying "How many more times are we going to find an artifact like the Arrow of Apollo and have to search for them all? That feels like going back to the well too many times, I mean what are we going to say, "Athena has 10 sacred toenail clipping scattered across space, you have to find them all...?" :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:49, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:i'm thinking along the lines of some jewelry. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:57, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

::It sounds like a good plotline actually. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:05, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Merv - you just made me spill forth mein coca cola whilst reading the section about the sacred toenail clippings - thats too much for 3am on a sunday morning! Still, plot looks good, just wish Season 3 would hurry up and AIR dammit! :) --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 21:08, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
::::No, really, they make a joke about "Athena's toenail clippings" in that writer's podcast thing. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:12, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I have a few possible meanings for 'eye of Jupiter' --[[User:starryniteynite|starryniteynite]]

1) Relatively obscure name for NGC 3242, a planetary nebula (A ring of illuminated gas expanding out from a sun-like star that's exhausted its fuel, and has lost its outer layers) a few thousand light years from Earth. Most astronomers call this 'the Ghost of Jupiter' instead, though some Hubble images have used this name. Its not a very unique PN (tho it has some gas streamers we can't quite explain), but it could be used as a navigational marker like M8 (the lagoon nebula). It is a very pretty nebula :)

2) "Eye of Jupiter" was the Greek/Roman name for the sun, which lead to today's 'all seeing eye' symbol of the free masons and on the pyramid in US currency

3)Adama=Zeus=Jupiter...yes, they tend to use Greek vs. Roman names, but the titles are not always consistent with this convention, and we have also seen evidence for non Greek mythological names (Isis, for example). The rest of it could be wordplay too...'eye' might refer to someone acting as Adama's eyes, rather than his eyes literally (just as 'The captain's hand refereed to Lee acting as Gardner's XO, or his hand, rather than some captain's literal hand)

4)A reference to Jupiter's big red spot, a huge hurricane-like storm on the planet's surface. Just like the "bastille Day" title, this could reference something in the episode, but not directly...they might travel through a similar storm. This has actually been done before in the miniseries, when Galactica travels into the storm at Ragnar

5) The tried and true, ancient object meaning...just like the arrow of Apollo directly references a character, but has no link to the character himself, this could just be a pretty piece of bling..

Personally, I would love #1, but only because it'd make me 2/2 for BSG objects in my thesis and I'm a total, unabashed geek. I think its probably #2, however, and they find some sort of navigational means of finding Earth (like a picture of Earth w/ distances& directions to three pulsars or very unique objects

== Duelling Sharons ==

So did anyone else get a sense of animosity/jealousy between the two Sharons? While it seems that Boomer has accepted her place amongst the Cylons and no longer considers herself a part of the humans, it also seems that she's a bit jealous of Athena's "taking her place", if you could call it that. Likewise, it also seemed that aside from her duties as a Colonial officer, Athena's refusal to let Boomer in with Adama was also somewhat out of personal distrust, ironically the same distrust of the Cylons that her fellow Colonial colleagues have.

Also, while Boomer told Athena about Hera's condition out of possible concern of the child (possible strain of humanity left in her? Cylon imperative? Or something else?), seems to me that Boomer enjoyed bursting her "sister"'s bubble on that. Talk about sibling rivalry there.

It'll be interesting to see if there will be any further Sharon vs. Sharon confrontations in the series.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 23:55, 15 December 2006 (CST)

:It was a very, very interesting dynamic. In any other show, we would have had a knock-down dragout "catfight." You hit the nail on the head. This episode was prime stuff. And, we on the wiki should be commended: our ''Galactica'' nuke count is right on the money! (Either that, or the show is using ''us'' as a source! :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:20, 16 December 2006 (CST)

::Does that mean we can finally change the "Class-D Nuclear Warhead" to something completely different, since their nukes ''aren't'' Class-D? :P --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:42, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Image==
Let's find an image that actually occurs in this episode. Maybe the wide shot of Tyrol in the temple? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Heh which one? to me it seems the Chief was a bit wide in ALL shots ; how could he gain weight while the fleet was starving? the chief definitely deserves the Lee Adama Fat-Ass trophy --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 03:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:Maybe it was Chief, and not Dr. Cottle, that got all of Kat's energy bars from the last ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:25, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Did Starbuck survive?==
Horray for the carelessness of adverts! Within ten minutes we knew the answer to that one. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Aside from that, it's going to continue the cycle of Soap Opera unease there, if Dee's the one sent to go get Starbuck back. Can't wait to see the uncomfortable stares on that one, especially if (as I suspect) Dee set up Starbuck to be the "eye in the sky" '''hoping''' the Cylons would shoot her down.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Who else was supposed to fly the mission? Looks like Lee and Kara are the only two qualified pilots on the ground and Lee is needed in overall command. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:34, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Too good to be true==
When we Baltar's voice over ''Galactica'''s speaker, the closed caption actually identifies him as "Cylon over speaker". I know that's not really meant to be taken as anything, but with all the speculation, it seems like a shining goof, or maybe even someone taking a good piss out of the [[Baltar as Cylon speculation|whole thing]]. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Nuking the Planet==

Does anyone else think that the nuclear missiles have the ability to be detonated remotely, before they reach their target? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:44, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Not to mention abort code transmissions, etc. Makes you wonder if the missiles were set for "one shot, one kill" mode, where they could not be recalled.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== WTF moment ==

I was on the [[Karl Agathon]] page, updating it for this ep's news, when I came across [[:Image:Valley_of_Darkness-Starbuck_Helo.jpg|this old picture]]. Considering how Kara's painting looks and that she's religious (though not indoctrinated in any sort of clerical form, unlike Chief Tyrol's parentage), does anyone think that (in hindsight), this may have been a hint to the Eye itself?--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:37, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: It actually makes a lot of sense... Taking Zeus to mean Admiral Adama, and that Kara Thrace is the go-to pilot for reconnaissance missions, AND the paintings on the walls, we have a plausible theory in the works! —The preceding '''unsigned''' comment was added by {{User|Alcibiades}}.
: Are you kidding me?! They set this episode up a year ago! --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 19:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: I find it pretty hard to believe too, but that painting ''really really really'' looks like the art in the temple. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 20:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Maybe they though it would be a nice idea to take that painting, put it in the Temple more than a season later, and see if we notice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:20, 18 December 2006 (CST)

== 18 Casualties & Relevance to "The Passage" ==

If 18 people were lost from '''The Passage''' episode, that means that 17 (at most) were aboard those two lost civilian ships, right? I'm only bringing this up to clarify what transpired — from that, and what we saw, the Raptors would pair up with a civilian ship, and that ship's passenger complement would be transferred onto ''Galactica'' (more heavily shielded, combat FTL drive) for the ferry run through the cluster. The civilian ship would then be crewed by an absolute bare minimum number of crewers. Then, when the group reached the other side of the cluster, the passengers would be transported back to their ships (if they survived the passage), the ships would remain at "Algae-planet", and ''Galactica'' would turn around and go back to the original side to repeat the cycle over again for a new group of civilian ships?

Am I reading/viewing this right? -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:53, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:The ships were manned by skeleton crews. That was even mentioned in "The Passage" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:01, 16 December 2006 (CST)

: Don't forget that 14 days have transpired. there could have been more births in the fleet. I just came up with the difference from the two episodes--[[User:Quig|Quig]] 16:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== Humanoid Cylons recognize each other on sight ==

While back on New Craprica, Number 3 knew right away that it was Sharon Agathon. Of course, who else would be trying to remove the ship's launch keys?

This episode, we see that Athena knew on sight that this Number Eight was Boomer. Interesting.

Can Cylons tell on sight which of the copies they are? It's already established that the bulletheads can't.

Note in last weeks episode, Baltar was able to pick The D'anna number three out of the hallway on sight, even though there is an identically dressed number three in the same hallway. [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 16:50, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Those two instances do prove that they do recognize one another, which was hinted at in the "[[Cylon Agent]]" page. I guess now it's more than a hint. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:54, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Names of marines==
Has anyone heard (or seen in close captions) the names of the marines that were with Starbuck and Dualla? I know one of them is [[Fischer]], but the other three? I heard something like: Criggs, Verek, Ditko. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:According to the caption, it's Griggs and Varrick; the spelling/pronouncation of the third lad is anyone else's guess. For some reason, the closed caption for this episode doesn't pick up everything for me. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:48, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== Location of the Eye? ==

At the end of the episode, Tyrol says something about "the sky will open, and the eye will be revealed." Did that make anyone else think of the star going nova? -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 22:15, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Good idea, but is it possible that such a "blowup" could be predicted in the sacred scrolls thousands of years ago? -- [[User:SuperMMX|SuperMMX]] 01:15, 17 December 2006 (CST)
::Why not? A race of humans capable of traveling from Kobol to Earth probably knows at least as much about stellar evolution as the Colonials [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:39, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: The [[Sacred Scrolls]] have so far contained information about [[Laura Roslin]] being sick, [[Sharon Agathon]] helping them to find the [[Tomb of Athena]], and more... In addition to various prophetic dreams... Sure, they could have predicted it. -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 11:26, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:When Tyrol commented about blowing up the Temple, I already thought "What if the Eye is INSIDE the pillar and they have to blow it up to get it out?" But surely an explosion destroying the entire system would destroy the Eye as well? And if it didn't, the Eye would not be easy to find between the debris of an entire planet. But blowing up a pillar doesn't exactly qualify as "the sky will open"... Maybe it refers to blowing up the roof or something like that... --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:04, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== Boomer in the brig? ==

Did Boomer get thrown in the galactica brig once Athena pointed her out? Was she allowed to return to the Basestars? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:49, 17 December 2006 (CST)

I doubt it because they probably would have it done right there rather than holding her outside first. I'm sure they let her leave with the others and advised her not to let the door hit on the arse on the way out. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:46, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== Summary ==

We really need a longer summary up there, the only point it currently mentions is kind of random -_- --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:58, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== D'anna's search for the five vs. the Temple of Five ==

I haven't seen much discussion on the connection between "the five" Cylons and the Temple of the Five. Since the Temple was built by the 13th tribe, a connection doesn't seem likely in a conventional linear timeline; but like the painting in Starbuck's apartment, it's hard to dismiss as a mere coincidence.

Such a connection does, however, clear up some verisimilitude issues for me – namely, the rate at which the Cylon's biological technology advanced in relation to both Cylon and Colonial conventional technology.

In less than 40 years' time, the Cylons were able to develop the Cylon Agents – and in such a way that made indiscernable from humans – and all of the ressurection technology that went with it. Meanwhile, their conventional, mechanical technology hasn't made nearly the same leaps. And Colonial technology hasn't advanced much at all. Pegasus was a much more formidable vessel than Galactica, but only in terms of size and firepower. Technologically speaking, they weren't that dissimilar. Everyone's still using nuclear missles as their most advanced form of weaponry.

Clearly, the Cylons have had a little help. Now, with dual references to a group of five that must not be named, we're starting to get an idea of from where that help may have come.

I'm not sure how that jibes with the Cylon's monotheistic religion (also established within those 40 years), versus the Colonies' polytheism, but I'm sure Mr.Moore has it worked out.

How great it is to have a show with a fleshed out story line already established, as opposed to the "make it up as we go" approach to shows like Star Trek (all incarnations), X-Files and Lost over our last 40 years. {{unsigned|Tylonius}}

:To ''Battlestar's'' credit, it did take a while to flesh out the story from a viewer's perspective, but what we know is quite intriguing. Their God and the Colonial gods may be one and the same, and may change how the Cylons treat the Colonials and vice versa. I don't think the five faces will be all shown, but we might see one. And yes, it is good to enjoy a show that makes a greater effort to maintain a consistent storyline. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:01, 18 December 2006 (CST)

== Human Nicknames ==
I cropped the following from the episode summary. Nothing against either point, just taking it off until somebody can figure out how to reconcile it into a single level deep bullet point (or points).
Cropped text:
*This is the first time the Cylons use "human" names on the basestar when not speaking to Baltar. D'Anna is named by Caprica-Six and another Number Three. Cavil's name is used by D'Anna.
**It is possible that these names are nicknames for the Cylons who've been amongst the humans (much like Caprica-Six), but it could also be the writers weaseling out of coming up with numbers for Cavil, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]] and [[Simon]]. In ''[[The Passage]]'', D'Anna even mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons".
Thanks. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Err how about:
*This episode marks the first time the Cylons use "human" names when not speaking to Baltar: Caprica-Six and another Three call D'Anna by her human name, who in turn uses Cavil's name. These could be nicknames for Cylons who've been living among humans (cf. [[Caprica-Six]]).
*Once again, the writers have dodged the issue of [[Cavil]]'s, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]]'s and [[Simon]]'s numbers. In "[[Torn]]", Caprica-Six says "The ones you know as Leoben...", in "[[The Passage]]" Number Three mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons" and in this episode a Three simply calls one of the Cavils "Cavil".

Please correct my style here, I didn't know exactly how to quote/paraphrase things like "one of the Simons" etc. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:One bullet point might be enough if the second part is connected with a word like "thus". However we shouldn't use "weasling". It sounds too negative and critical where criticism isn't really needed. Maybe something like "dodging the issue" or "circumventing"? That means the same and isn't as POV.
:Btw: episode names aren't italicized, but put in quotation marks --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Edit first post, episode titles quoted instead of italicized, second bullet point reprashed and "weaseling" changed to "dodged".
I don't think joining the bullet points with "this" between them is going to make this any clearer. I also don't think it's necessary, as both points may be related but analyse different things (the remaining numbers vs. Cylon naming convention). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:28, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:I think the writers are working with established names for convenience. They may not want to create a number yet to not confuse some viewers or there may be a grand scheme of introducing more numbers later in the season or another season that involves the 5 unknown cylon models. They could be maintaining flexibility for themselves in this case. They also know that the people who care the most are us die-hard fans and they can drag us through the mud without giving us more info, but I don't think so with as generous and courteous as Ngarenn is on BW:OC.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 11:10, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:Ricky Richardson/Archive 1

2006-12-13T22:17:26Z

Straycat0:

== For his sake, hope we never meet him ==
The way things go on this show, chaneces are if we meet him, probably that means he's going to die: re Kat, Crashdown, etc. Pilots who are not are primary characters (Apollo, Starbuck, Boomer and now Helo)--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 16:17, 13 December 2006 (CST)

Dirty Hands

2006-12-12T05:18:01Z

Straycat0: /* Official Statements */

{{Episode Data
| image= Universal logo.jpg
| title= Dirty Hands
| season= 3
| episode= 16
| guests=
| writer= [[Anne Cofell Saunders]] & [[Jane Espenson]]
| story=
| director= [[Wayne Rose]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population=
| prev=[[A Day in the Life]]
| next=[[Maelstrom]]
}}

== Overview ==

: ''Not yet available.''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==



* [[Bradley Thompson]] confirmed the title<ref>[[BW:OC#New episode names|Bradley Thomspon confirms "Dirty Hands" as title at BW:OC]]</ref>, as well as provided information on the writer and director<ref>[[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques/Archive05#Episode titles|Bradley Thompson provides a list of director and writer credits, along with episode numbers (and titles, where available).]]</ref>.
* As always, episode titles can and do change up until the time they are finally aired.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
Jane Espenson, in an interview with tvsquad.com, made the following remark: "The episode, co-written with Anne Cofell Saunders, is called 'Dirty Hands,' and as you might guess, it's a look at the people who do the dirty work in the fleet. Knuckle-dragging fun!" <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/12/06/jane-espenson-answers-your-battlestar-questions/|title=TV Squad: Jane Espenson answers your Battlestar questions|date=6 December 2006|accessdate=11 December 2006|last=McDuffee|first=Keith|format=|language=English}}</ref>

== Guest Stars ==

== External Links ==

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

Romo Lampkin

2006-12-10T19:17:56Z

Straycat0:

{{Character Data
|photo=
|age=
|colony=
|birthname= Rommel Lamphkin
|callsign=
|seen= The Son Also Rises
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role=
|rank=
|actor= [[Mark Sheppard]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

According to the podcast The Battlestar Roundtable, Mark Sheppard will play Rommel Lamphkin, a very unusual man who talks too much and is a lawyer involved in a very important case in the Colonial Fleet. His story arc will carry through the last 3 episodes of Season Three.

[[Category:A to Z|Lamphkin, Rommel]]
[[Category:Characters|Lamphkin, Rommel]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Lamphkin, Rommel]]
[[Category:RDM|Lamphkin, Rommel]]

Romo Lampkin

2006-12-10T19:17:24Z

Straycat0:

{{Character Data
|photo=
|age=
|colony=
|birthname= Rommel Lamphkin
|callsign=
|seen= The Son Also Rises
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role=
|rank=
|actor= [[Mark Sheppard]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}
{{requested}}

According to the podcast The Battlestar Roundtable, Mark Sheppard will play Rommel Lamphkin, a very unusual man who talks too much and is a lawyer involved in a very important case in the Colonial Fleet. His story arc will carry through the last 3 episodes of Season Three.

[[Category:A to Z|Lamphkin, Rommel]]
[[Category:Characters|Lamphkin, Rommel]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Lamphkin, Rommel]]
[[Category:RDM|Lamphkin, Rommel]]

Talk:Romo Lampkin/Archive 1

2006-12-10T16:39:11Z

Straycat0:

I bet you 50 cubits that this fellow is a Cylon.
--[[User:Volostheguardian|Volostheguardian]] 23:15, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:I certainly hope he isn't. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:56, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::Cylon or not he'll most likely be a "baddie", cus the actor always is. lol --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 06:49, 10 December 2006 (CST)
:::Actually it's '''Romo Lampkin'''.
:::http://www.sidesexpress.com/se_index.cfm?locid=5&task=type&l=5&c=battlestar#sr
:::--[[User:Deus|Deus]] 07:00, 10 December 2006 (CST)
::::Yeah, I was only about 90% certain about the exact pronunciation of his name when I listened to the podcast. That's why I didn't feel I should create this page and only posted it on [[The Son Also Rises]]--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 10:39, 10 December 2006 (CST)

The Passage

2006-12-10T07:27:15Z

Straycat0: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| title= The Passage
| image=Season 3 - Promo - The Passage - Kat.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 10
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Jane Espenson]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Nankin]]
| production= 310
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-12-08
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,420
| prev= [[Unfinished Business]]
| next= [[The Eye of Jupiter]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Starvation threatens the population after the food-processing systems become contaminated, but the Fleet is cut off from a food source by the intense radiation put out by a huge star cluster. Galactica's pilots must guide the civilian vessels on a dangerous journey directly through the radiation.''

== Summary ==
=== On ''[[Galactica]]'' ===
*[[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] flies a [[Raptor]] through a blinding, immensely bright gas cloud. The Raptor's outer skin is charring from the intense heat. Athena is managing to fight off the intense radiation buildup surrounding her, thanks to her [[Cylon agent|Cylon physiology]], but a radiation monitor badge she wears is changing color from white, spotting to an ominous black.
*Elsewhere in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], President [[Laura Roslin]] summarizes the contamination of the basic foodstuff material storage used to feed everyone, from soldier to civilian. The situation is dire; 7 to 10 days of rations remain. The Fleet is starving.
*A group of pilots, including [[Lee Adama]], [[Kara Thrace]], [[Hot Dog]] and [[Louanne Katraine]], are combining what little food they have and sharing it, down to the last crumb.
*Admiral [[William Adama]] and his command staff await Athena's return from her reconnaisance mission to what they believe is a planet that has basic algae, which isn't extremely palatable but is protein-rich and will allow them to restock their food stores and survive. Athena is three hours late from return.
*Athena does make it back to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. While her radiation badge is black, her Cylon physiology protects her (although she is obviously uncomfortable). She reports success; the planet is teeming with algae.
*But the travel through the star cluster is extremely dangerous. Two [[FTL|jumps]] are required to reach the planet on the other side of the cluster, which cannot be circumnavigated. The navigation computers of any civilian ships inside the cluster would be inoperative due to insufficient shielding and the intense radiation leaves a ship only minutes to gather their bearings for the second jump out before they absorb a fatal dose of radiation. Any ship would also have to endure the intense heat as well.
*''Galactica'' alone cannot be used to ferry the people, and the civilian ships alone would not make the trip as they would get lost within the cluster cloud. There is too much algae for ''Galactica'' to bring the food to the people in time.
*The Adamas consider the use of the Raptors, whose navigation systems are radiation-hardened to protect against nuclear strikes, as pilot ships that will guide a group of civilian ships at a time by visual reckoning, relaying the proper jump coordinates once visual sighting is made to get the ships to the other side. Five jumps are needed, and skeleton crews are used on each civilian ship to limit the Fleet's possible losses, with the civilians temporarily transferred to ''Galactica'', which will survive the radiation effects thanks to the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar's]] dense hull plating ([[Miniseries]]).
*A group of civilians are bunked on ''Galactica'' from the civilian ships. One of them recognizes Kat, but calls out for her by another name: "Sasha." Kat reacts angrily to the man, [[Enzo]], and barely acknowledges his call before warning him to back off.
*The pilots are briefed on the plan, and each given radiation badges. When Major Adama encourages the use of [[stims]], Kat objects, warning that stims work by boosting the body's metabolism. In their starvation state, the stims would make them ill. Adama leaves the use of the drug to the pilot's discretion.
*Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] returns to the [[CIC]] and is greeted by a round of applause from the crew. He promptly reminds them that they have "jobs to do". He has presumably resumed his post as [[XO]] of ''Galactica''.
*The first outbound flight into the cluster begins. The ''[[Adriatic]]'' is lost when its Raptor guide, flown by [[Hot Dog]], cannot locate her.
*Successive trips continue, but another ship, the ''[[Carina]]'', guided by Kat, is lost as well, which greatly angers and saddens her. She stays in the cloud a few minutes too long during her extended search, and her radiation badge becomes dark.
*In the [[hangar deck]], Thrace notices Enzo interacting with Kat and gets suspicious. She later questions Enzo and later, Kat.
*Kat begs Thrace not to tell Admiral Adama about her past life as a drug runner and the fact that she acquired her name, "Louanne Katraine," from a child that died two days after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], using it to clear ''Galactica's'' pilot screening when she was a [[nugget]]. Thrace accepts her offer, warning her to embrace who she really is.
*Feeling backed into a corner, Kat is physically stressed. Her hair is falling out, a sign of radiation poisoning. Fearful of what will happen to her if Admiral Adama finds out, she chooses to continue her Raptor flights, swapping her radiation badge with [[Helo]]'s. She allows herself a sexual romp with Enzo before preparing for the last outbound flight.
*The last outbound trip is more destructive. Even ''Galactica'' cannot withstand the heat and begins to suffer heat-related decompression failures throughout its hull. Adama orders his son to wrap out visual sighting and perform the escape jump.
*Kat cannot find her last ship. Realizing she had already absorbed too much radiation, she elects to remain in the cloud to continue searching for her lost ship.
*''Galactica'' waits for several frightening minutes until both Kat's Raptor and the last civilian ship rejoin them.
*Kat is greeted by the command staff and many crewmembers to celebrate her accomplishment. The young pilot pumps her arms in the air and tries to remove her helmet before she collapses from radiation poisoning.
*In [[sickbay]], Kara Thrace talks to Kat, whose exposure to the cloud's radiation was too extreme. Thrace recants a part of her conversation with Kat and her origins, and tries unsuccessfully to leave Kat's bedside with a smile before leaving the dying pilot with a bottle of sleeping pills as a gesture of self-euthanization. Kat thanks her.
*Admiral Adama stands by Kat's bedside immediately after Thrace's departure. Kat attempts to confess her past, but Adama tells her that her past will not change the heroic thing she did for the Fleet. He gives her the status of [[CAG]] once more, a position she held from colonization of [[New Caprica]] to Major Adama's return to ''Galactica'', despite the fact that Kat will not survive to fly again.
*Adama stays at Kat's bedside, talking with her and how he would have loved to have had a third child, commenting that he, like his ex-wife, [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]], would have liked a daughter.
*Some time later, the pilots assemble in their [[Pilot ready rooms|ready room]] as Admiral Adama changes the pilot organization chart, placing Kat as the CAG.
*Kara Thrace enters ''Galactica'''s memorial hallway and tacks a photo of Kat on the board. She cries quietly as Lee Adama looks on from a distance.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*Baltar notices that Number Three keeps going off somewhere and wonders what she is doing. Caprica-Six tells him that the other Cylons are also concerned about Three's activities.
*Baltar confronts Three about her unexplained absences and surmises that she has been dying and resurrecting over and over again.
*Baltar and Three discuss the final five Cylon agents, who are apparently the figures Three has been seeing between life and death. Baltar wonders aloud if he could be one of them, making him a hero to the Cylons instead of a traitor to the Colonials. Three tries to hold onto the memory of what they look like, but it always fades. Her drawings of them aren't very distinct.
*Baltar and Three visit the Hybrid's chamber. Against Three's advice, Baltar reaches out to touch the Hybrid and she grabs his hand. She says a number of cryptic things which Baltar pieces together as clues about a planet where the Eye of Jupiter can be found, as well as something related to the final five. Baltar states that he is convinced that everything the hybrid says has meaning.

== Questions ==
*Was assisted suicide an accepted practice in the Colonies, even if not by a practicing physician?
*Are there going to be radiation consequences for the pilots exposed to the conditions of the star cluster, especially those pilots who did in fact have a black indicator?

== Analysis ==
*The ranking shuffle resumes in this episode: Tigh returns to the CIC as XO, sending Helo back to the flight lines as a senior flight officer (his rank of Captain seems unaffected). At the end of the episode, Kat is posthumously restored to the CAG slot, with Apollo shunted into her squadron leader position (presumably, he will continue as ''de facto'' CAG).
**Kat's promotion to CAG may have occurred before she died so that upon her death, her posting as CAG would expire and Apollo would regain his position. It makes little sense to be posthumously assigned to a billet.
*Baltar calls the Number Three "D'Anna", to which she responds. This indicates a high likelyhood of her being the same copy that was on Galactica and making her one of a few Cylons that has a name instead of just being a model.
**Or, it may simply indicate acceptance of Baltar's custom of referring to and addressing some models by their "human" names—in this same scene, Baltar refers to "the relevant Simon" and in prior episodes refers to "one of the Dorals"' views on toilet paper. This custom is shared with the other humans, such as Ellen Tigh who mentions "one of the Brother Cavils", and Adama, who refers to both the Ragnar Anchorage copy and the stowaway copy in "[[Flesh and Bone]]" as "Leoben Conoy".
*Number Three does not know what the final five Cylon agent models look like, at least not consciously.
*No anti-radiation injections were used by the pilots. This either means that the Fleet's supplies are used up, or that even the medication doesn't help against such intense levels of stellar radiation.

== Notes ==
*This is one of the few times an air group org chart is visible. The CAG (now Kat) is in the top slot; directly below her are (presumably) the squadron leaders (Apollo, Starbuck, Two Times, and a fourth whose name is never visible to the camera). Pilots and ECOs may be listed below their squadron leaders in descending order of seniority (both Helo and Hot Dog, for example, are listed directly beneath their squadron leader, Starbuck, and the two of them are definitely among the senior flight officers for ''Galactica'').
*A [[Straits of Madagon|perilous journey]] by the [[The Fleet (TOS)|"rag-tag" Fleet]] in the [[Original Series]], where pilots are also critical to the Fleet's safety, appears in its series premiere, "[[Saga of a Star World]]."
*"The Passage" was written by ''Galactica'' newcomer [[Jane Espenson]]. The episode arose when the show brought in Dr. [[Kevin Grazier]], a scientist from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, who talked about how one would navigate through space; how one would figure out how to get from one point in the universe to, for example, Earth. Grazier's talk prompted the story at the heart of Espenson's episode.
*On the memorial wall Kat's picture is placed below the one of Riley's girlfriend she herself put there in "[[Scar]]".
*This episode marks the destruction of two civilian ships, the [[Adriatic]] and [[Carina]]. This will likely result in more crowded conditions on the other ships in [[The Fleet]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''Adama and Tigh discuss the food shortage''
::'''Adama:''' I hear they're still eating paper. Is that true?
::'''Tigh:''' No. Paper shortage.

== Official Statements ==
'''In [[Ron Moore]]'s blog on [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/ July 27th, 2006]:'''

:"We were pretty excited to have Jane too. I actually took Jane's first pitch way back in my early days at Star Trek and I had the pleasure of buying what turned out to be her first sale. I hadn't seen her since, but I'd followed her career from afar and was very proud to see her do so well. Turns out that Jane was a huge fan of Galactica and really wanted to do a script for us, so we jumped on the chance. I think we're all hoping that we could get her on staff at some point in the future, but we'll have to wait and see how everything shakes out for Season Four -- and whether she's even available, she's very much in demand these days. Her episode this year is "The Passage" (originally Ep 9) and deals with a harrowing voyage of the rag-tag fleet and focuses on Kat."

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Captain [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Jane Espenson]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Passage

2006-12-10T07:24:47Z

Straycat0: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| title= The Passage
| image=Season 3 - Promo - The Passage - Kat.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 10
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Jane Espenson]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Nankin]]
| production= 310
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-12-08
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,420
| prev= [[Unfinished Business]]
| next= [[The Eye of Jupiter]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Starvation threatens the population after the food-processing systems become contaminated, but the Fleet is cut off from a food source by the intense radiation put out by a huge star cluster. Galactica's pilots must guide the civilian vessels on a dangerous journey directly through the radiation.''

== Summary ==
=== On ''[[Galactica]]'' ===
*[[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] flies a [[Raptor]] through a blinding, immensely bright gas cloud. The Raptor's outer skin is charring from the intense heat. Athena is managing to fight off the intense radiation buildup surrounding her, thanks to her [[Cylon agent|Cylon physiology]], but a radiation monitor badge she wears is changing color from white, spotting to an ominous black.
*Elsewhere in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], President [[Laura Roslin]] summarizes the contamination of the basic foodstuff material storage used to feed everyone, from soldier to civilian. The situation is dire; 7 to 10 days of rations remain. The Fleet is starving.
*A group of pilots, including [[Lee Adama]], [[Kara Thrace]], [[Hot Dog]] and [[Louanne Katraine]], are combining what little food they have and sharing it, down to the last crumb.
*Admiral [[William Adama]] and his command staff await Athena's return from her reconnaisance mission to what they believe is a planet that has basic algae, which isn't extremely palatable but is protein-rich and will allow them to restock their food stores and survive. Athena is three hours late from return.
*Athena does make it back to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. While her radiation badge is black, her Cylon physiology protects her (although she is obviously uncomfortable). She reports success; the planet is teeming with algae.
*But the travel through the star cluster is extremely dangerous. Two [[FTL|jumps]] are required to reach the planet on the other side of the cluster, which cannot be circumnavigated. The navigation computers of any civilian ships inside the cluster would be inoperative due to insufficient shielding and the intense radiation leaves a ship only minutes to gather their bearings for the second jump out before they absorb a fatal dose of radiation. Any ship would also have to endure the intense heat as well.
*''Galactica'' alone cannot be used to ferry the people, and the civilian ships alone would not make the trip as they would get lost within the cluster cloud. There is too much algae for ''Galactica'' to bring the food to the people in time.
*The Adamas consider the use of the Raptors, whose navigation systems are radiation-hardened to protect against nuclear strikes, as pilot ships that will guide a group of civilian ships at a time by visual reckoning, relaying the proper jump coordinates once visual sighting is made to get the ships to the other side. Five jumps are needed, and skeleton crews are used on each civilian ship to limit the Fleet's possible losses, with the civilians temporarily transferred to ''Galactica'', which will survive the radiation effects thanks to the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar's]] dense hull plating ([[Miniseries]]).
*A group of civilians are bunked on ''Galactica'' from the civilian ships. One of them recognizes Kat, but calls out for her by another name: "Sasha." Kat reacts angrily to the man, [[Enzo]], and barely acknowledges his call before warning him to back off.
*The pilots are briefed on the plan, and each given radiation badges. When Major Adama encourages the use of [[stims]], Kat objects, warning that stims work by boosting the body's metabolism. In their starvation state, the stims would make them ill. Adama leaves the use of the drug to the pilot's discretion.
*Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] returns to the [[CIC]] and is greeted by a round of applause from the crew. He promptly reminds them that they have "jobs to do". He has presumably resumed his post as [[XO]] of ''Galactica''.
*The first outbound flight into the cluster begins. The ''[[Adriatic]]'' is lost when its Raptor guide, flown by [[Hot Dog]], cannot locate her.
*Successive trips continue, but another ship, the ''[[Carina]]'', guided by Kat, is lost as well, which greatly angers and saddens her. She stays in the cloud a few minutes too long during her extended search, and her radiation badge becomes dark.
*In the [[hangar deck]], Thrace notices Enzo interacting with Kat and gets suspicious. She later questions Enzo and later, Kat.
*Kat begs Thrace not to tell Admiral Adama about her past life as a drug runner and the fact that she acquired her name, "Louanne Katraine," from a child that died two days after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], using it to clear ''Galactica's'' pilot screening when she was a [[nugget]]. Thrace accepts her offer, warning her to embrace who she really is.
*Feeling backed into a corner, Kat is physically stressed. Her hair is falling out, a sign of radiation poisoning. Fearful of what will happen to her if Admiral Adama finds out, she chooses to continue her Raptor flights, swapping her radiation badge with [[Helo]]'s. She allows herself a sexual romp with Enzo before preparing for the last outbound flight.
*The last outbound trip is more destructive. Even ''Galactica'' cannot withstand the heat and begins to suffer heat-related decompression failures throughout its hull. Adama orders his son to wrap out visual sighting and perform the escape jump.
*Kat cannot find her last ship. Realizing she had already absorbed too much radiation, she elects to remain in the cloud to continue searching for her lost ship.
*''Galactica'' waits for several frightening minutes until both Kat's Raptor and the last civilian ship rejoin them.
*Kat is greeted by the command staff and many crewmembers to celebrate her accomplishment. The young pilot pumps her arms in the air and tries to remove her helmet before she collapses from radiation poisoning.
*In [[sickbay]], Kara Thrace talks to Kat, whose exposure to the cloud's radiation was too extreme. Thrace recants a part of her conversation with Kat and her origins, and tries unsuccessfully to leave Kat's bedside with a smile before leaving the dying pilot with a bottle of sleeping pills as a gesture of self-euthanization. Kat thanks her.
*Admiral Adama stands by Kat's bedside immediately after Thrace's departure. Kat attempts to confess her past, but Adama tells her that her past will not change the heroic thing she did for the Fleet. He gives her the status of [[CAG]] once more, a position she held from colonization of [[New Caprica]] to Major Adama's return to ''Galactica'', despite the fact that Kat will not survive to fly again.
*Adama stays at Kat's bedside, talking with her and how he would have loved to have had a third child, commenting that he, like his ex-wife, [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]], would have liked a daughter.
*Some time later, the pilots assemble in their [[Pilot ready rooms|ready room]] as Admiral Adama changes the pilot organization chart, placing Kat as the CAG.
*Kara Thrace enters ''Galactica'''s memorial hallway and tacks a photo of Kat on the board. She cries quietly as Lee Adama looks on from a distance.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*Baltar notices that Number Three keeps going off somewhere and wonders what she is doing. Caprica-Six tells him that the other Cylons are also concerned about Three's activities.
*Baltar confronts Three about her unexplained absences and surmises that she has been dying and resurrecting over and over again.
*Baltar and Three discuss the final five Cylon agents, who are apparently the figures Three has been seeing between life and death. Baltar wonders aloud if he could be one of them, making him a hero to the Cylons instead of a traitor to the Colonials. Three tries to hold onto the memory of what they look like, but it always fades. Her drawings of them aren't very distinct.
*Baltar and Three visit the Hybrid's chamber. Against Three's advice, Baltar reaches out to touch the Hybrid and she grabs his hand. She says a number of cryptic things which Baltar pieces together as clues about a planet where the Eye of Jupiter can be found, as well as something related to the final five. Baltar states that he is convinced that everything the hybrid says has meaning.

== Questions ==
*Was assisted suicide an accepted practice in the Colonies, even if not by a practicing physician?

== Analysis ==
*The ranking shuffle resumes in this episode: Tigh returns to the CIC as XO, sending Helo back to the flight lines as a senior flight officer (his rank of Captain seems unaffected). At the end of the episode, Kat is posthumously restored to the CAG slot, with Apollo shunted into her squadron leader position (presumably, he will continue as ''de facto'' CAG).
**Kat's promotion to CAG may have occurred before she died so that upon her death, her posting as CAG would expire and Apollo would regain his position. It makes little sense to be posthumously assigned to a billet.
*Baltar calls the Number Three "D'Anna", to which she responds. This indicates a high likelyhood of her being the same copy that was on Galactica and making her one of a few Cylons that has a name instead of just being a model.
**Or, it may simply indicate acceptance of Baltar's custom of referring to and addressing some models by their "human" names—in this same scene, Baltar refers to "the relevant Simon" and in prior episodes refers to "one of the Dorals"' views on toilet paper. This custom is shared with the other humans, such as Ellen Tigh who mentions "one of the Brother Cavils", and Adama, who refers to both the Ragnar Anchorage copy and the stowaway copy in "[[Flesh and Bone]]" as "Leoben Conoy".
*Number Three does not know what the final five Cylon agent models look like, at least not consciously.
*No anti-radiation injections were used by the pilots. This either means that the Fleet's supplies are used up, or that even the medication doesn't help against such intense levels of stellar radiation.

== Notes ==
*This is one of the few times an air group org chart is visible. The CAG (now Kat) is in the top slot; directly below her are (presumably) the squadron leaders (Apollo, Starbuck, Two Times, and a fourth whose name is never visible to the camera). Pilots and ECOs may be listed below their squadron leaders in descending order of seniority (both Helo and Hot Dog, for example, are listed directly beneath their squadron leader, Starbuck, and the two of them are definitely among the senior flight officers for ''Galactica'').
*A [[Straits of Madagon|perilous journey]] by the [[The Fleet (TOS)|"rag-tag" Fleet]] in the [[Original Series]], where pilots are also critical to the Fleet's safety, appears in its series premiere, "[[Saga of a Star World]]."
*"The Passage" was written by ''Galactica'' newcomer [[Jane Espenson]]. The episode arose when the show brought in Dr. [[Kevin Grazier]], a scientist from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, who talked about how one would navigate through space; how one would figure out how to get from one point in the universe to, for example, Earth. Grazier's talk prompted the story at the heart of Espenson's episode.
*On the memorial wall Kat's picture is placed below the one of Riley's girlfriend she herself put there in "[[Scar]]".
*This episode marks the destruction of two civilian ships, the [[Adriatic]] and [[Carina]]. This will likely result in more crowded conditions on the other ships in [[The Fleet]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''Adama and Tigh discuss the food shortage''
::'''Adama:''' I hear they're still eating paper. Is that true?
::'''Tigh:''' No. Paper shortage.

== Official Statements ==
'''In [[Ron Moore]]'s blog on [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/ July 27th, 2006]:'''

:"We were pretty excited to have Jane too. I actually took Jane's first pitch way back in my early days at Star Trek and I had the pleasure of buying what turned out to be her first sale. I hadn't seen her since, but I'd followed her career from afar and was very proud to see her do so well. Turns out that Jane was a huge fan of Galactica and really wanted to do a script for us, so we jumped on the chance. I think we're all hoping that we could get her on staff at some point in the future, but we'll have to wait and see how everything shakes out for Season Four -- and whether she's even available, she's very much in demand these days. Her episode this year is "The Passage" (originally Ep 9) and deals with a harrowing voyage of the rag-tag fleet and focuses on Kat."

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Captain [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Jane Espenson]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Passage

2006-12-10T07:24:24Z

Straycat0: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| title= The Passage
| image=Season 3 - Promo - The Passage - Kat.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 10
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Jane Espenson]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Nankin]]
| production= 310
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-12-08
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,420
| prev= [[Unfinished Business]]
| next= [[The Eye of Jupiter]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Starvation threatens the population after the food-processing systems become contaminated, but the Fleet is cut off from a food source by the intense radiation put out by a huge star cluster. Galactica's pilots must guide the civilian vessels on a dangerous journey directly through the radiation.''

== Summary ==
=== On ''[[Galactica]]'' ===
*[[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] flies a [[Raptor]] through a blinding, immensely bright gas cloud. The Raptor's outer skin is charring from the intense heat. Athena is managing to fight off the intense radiation buildup surrounding her, thanks to her [[Cylon agent|Cylon physiology]], but a radiation monitor badge she wears is changing color from white, spotting to an ominous black.
*Elsewhere in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], President [[Laura Roslin]] summarizes the contamination of the basic foodstuff material storage used to feed everyone, from soldier to civilian. The situation is dire; 7 to 10 days of rations remain. The Fleet is starving.
*A group of pilots, including [[Lee Adama]], [[Kara Thrace]], [[Hot Dog]] and [[Louanne Katraine]], are combining what little food they have and sharing it, down to the last crumb.
*Admiral [[William Adama]] and his command staff await Athena's return from her reconnaisance mission to what they believe is a planet that has basic algae, which isn't extremely palatable but is protein-rich and will allow them to restock their food stores and survive. Athena is three hours late from return.
*Athena does make it back to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. While her radiation badge is black, her Cylon physiology protects her (although she is obviously uncomfortable). She reports success; the planet is teeming with algae.
*But the travel through the star cluster is extremely dangerous. Two [[FTL|jumps]] are required to reach the planet on the other side of the cluster, which cannot be circumnavigated. The navigation computers of any civilian ships inside the cluster would be inoperative due to insufficient shielding and the intense radiation leaves a ship only minutes to gather their bearings for the second jump out before they absorb a fatal dose of radiation. Any ship would also have to endure the intense heat as well.
*''Galactica'' alone cannot be used to ferry the people, and the civilian ships alone would not make the trip as they would get lost within the cluster cloud. There is too much algae for ''Galactica'' to bring the food to the people in time.
*The Adamas consider the use of the Raptors, whose navigation systems are radiation-hardened to protect against nuclear strikes, as pilot ships that will guide a group of civilian ships at a time by visual reckoning, relaying the proper jump coordinates once visual sighting is made to get the ships to the other side. Five jumps are needed, and skeleton crews are used on each civilian ship to limit the Fleet's possible losses, with the civilians temporarily transferred to ''Galactica'', which will survive the radiation effects thanks to the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar's]] dense hull plating ([[Miniseries]]).
*A group of civilians are bunked on ''Galactica'' from the civilian ships. One of them recognizes Kat, but calls out for her by another name: "Sasha." Kat reacts angrily to the man, [[Enzo]], and barely acknowledges his call before warning him to back off.
*The pilots are briefed on the plan, and each given radiation badges. When Major Adama encourages the use of [[stims]], Kat objects, warning that stims work by boosting the body's metabolism. In their starvation state, the stims would make them ill. Adama leaves the use of the drug to the pilot's discretion.
*Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] returns to the [[CIC]] and is greeted by a round of applause from the crew. He promptly reminds them that they have "jobs to do". He has presumably resumed his post as [[XO]] of ''Galactica''.
*The first outbound flight into the cluster begins. The ''[[Adriatic]]'' is lost when its Raptor guide, flown by [[Hot Dog]], cannot locate her.
*Successive trips continue, but another ship, the ''[[Carina]]'', guided by Kat, is lost as well, which greatly angers and saddens her. She stays in the cloud a few minutes too long during her extended search, and her radiation badge becomes dark.
*In the [[hangar deck]], Thrace notices Enzo interacting with Kat and gets suspicious. She later questions Enzo and later, Kat.
*Kat begs Thrace not to tell Admiral Adama about her past life as a drug runner and the fact that she acquired her name, "Louanne Katraine," from a child that died two days after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], using it to clear ''Galactica's'' pilot screening when she was a [[nugget]]. Thrace accepts her offer, warning her to embrace who she really is.
*Feeling backed into a corner, Kat is physically stressed. Her hair is falling out, a sign of radiation poisoning. Fearful of what will happen to her if Admiral Adama finds out, she chooses to continue her Raptor flights, swapping her radiation badge with [[Helo]]'s. She allows herself a sexual romp with Enzo before preparing for the last outbound flight.
*The last outbound trip is more destructive. Even ''Galactica'' cannot withstand the heat and begins to suffer heat-related decompression failures throughout its hull. Adama orders his son to wrap out visual sighting and perform the escape jump.
*Kat cannot find her last ship. Realizing she had already absorbed too much radiation, she elects to remain in the cloud to continue searching for her lost ship.
*''Galactica'' waits for several frightening minutes until both Kat's Raptor and the last civilian ship rejoin them.
*Kat is greeted by the command staff and many crewmembers to celebrate her accomplishment. The young pilot pumps her arms in the air and tries to remove her helmet before she collapses from radiation poisoning.
*In [[sickbay]], Kara Thrace talks to Kat, whose exposure to the cloud's radiation was too extreme. Thrace recants a part of her conversation with Kat and her origins, and tries unsuccessfully to leave Kat's bedside with a smile before leaving the dying pilot with a bottle of sleeping pills as a gesture of self-euthanization. Kat thanks her.
*Admiral Adama stands by Kat's bedside immediately after Thrace's departure. Kat attempts to confess her past, but Adama tells her that her past will not change the heroic thing she did for the Fleet. He gives her the status of [[CAG]] once more, a position she held from colonization of [[New Caprica]] to Major Adama's return to ''Galactica'', despite the fact that Kat will not survive to fly again.
*Adama stays at Kat's bedside, talking with her and how he would have loved to have had a third child, commenting that he, like his ex-wife, [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]], would have liked a daughter.
*Some time later, the pilots assemble in their [[Pilot ready rooms|ready room]] as Admiral Adama changes the pilot organization chart, placing Kat as the CAG.
*Kara Thrace enters ''Galactica'''s memorial hallway and tacks a photo of Kat on the board. She cries quietly as Lee Adama looks on from a distance.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*Baltar notices that Number Three keeps going off somewhere and wonders what she is doing. Caprica-Six tells him that the other Cylons are also concerned about Three's activities.
*Baltar confronts Three about her unexplained absences and surmises that she has been dying and resurrecting over and over again.
*Baltar and Three discuss the final five Cylon agents, who are apparently the figures Three has been seeing between life and death. Baltar wonders aloud if he could be one of them, making him a hero to the Cylons instead of a traitor to the Colonials. Three tries to hold onto the memory of what they look like, but it always fades. Her drawings of them aren't very distinct.
*Baltar and Three visit the Hybrid's chamber. Against Three's advice, Baltar reaches out to touch the Hybrid and she grabs his hand. She says a number of cryptic things which Baltar pieces together as clues about a planet where the Eye of Jupiter can be found, as well as something related to the final five. Baltar states that he is convinced that everything the hybrid says has meaning.

== Questions ==
Was assisted suicide an accepted practice in the Colonies, even if not by a practicing physician?

== Analysis ==
*The ranking shuffle resumes in this episode: Tigh returns to the CIC as XO, sending Helo back to the flight lines as a senior flight officer (his rank of Captain seems unaffected). At the end of the episode, Kat is posthumously restored to the CAG slot, with Apollo shunted into her squadron leader position (presumably, he will continue as ''de facto'' CAG).
**Kat's promotion to CAG may have occurred before she died so that upon her death, her posting as CAG would expire and Apollo would regain his position. It makes little sense to be posthumously assigned to a billet.
*Baltar calls the Number Three "D'Anna", to which she responds. This indicates a high likelyhood of her being the same copy that was on Galactica and making her one of a few Cylons that has a name instead of just being a model.
**Or, it may simply indicate acceptance of Baltar's custom of referring to and addressing some models by their "human" names—in this same scene, Baltar refers to "the relevant Simon" and in prior episodes refers to "one of the Dorals"' views on toilet paper. This custom is shared with the other humans, such as Ellen Tigh who mentions "one of the Brother Cavils", and Adama, who refers to both the Ragnar Anchorage copy and the stowaway copy in "[[Flesh and Bone]]" as "Leoben Conoy".
*Number Three does not know what the final five Cylon agent models look like, at least not consciously.
*No anti-radiation injections were used by the pilots. This either means that the Fleet's supplies are used up, or that even the medication doesn't help against such intense levels of stellar radiation.

== Notes ==
*This is one of the few times an air group org chart is visible. The CAG (now Kat) is in the top slot; directly below her are (presumably) the squadron leaders (Apollo, Starbuck, Two Times, and a fourth whose name is never visible to the camera). Pilots and ECOs may be listed below their squadron leaders in descending order of seniority (both Helo and Hot Dog, for example, are listed directly beneath their squadron leader, Starbuck, and the two of them are definitely among the senior flight officers for ''Galactica'').
*A [[Straits of Madagon|perilous journey]] by the [[The Fleet (TOS)|"rag-tag" Fleet]] in the [[Original Series]], where pilots are also critical to the Fleet's safety, appears in its series premiere, "[[Saga of a Star World]]."
*"The Passage" was written by ''Galactica'' newcomer [[Jane Espenson]]. The episode arose when the show brought in Dr. [[Kevin Grazier]], a scientist from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, who talked about how one would navigate through space; how one would figure out how to get from one point in the universe to, for example, Earth. Grazier's talk prompted the story at the heart of Espenson's episode.
*On the memorial wall Kat's picture is placed below the one of Riley's girlfriend she herself put there in "[[Scar]]".
*This episode marks the destruction of two civilian ships, the [[Adriatic]] and [[Carina]]. This will likely result in more crowded conditions on the other ships in [[The Fleet]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''Adama and Tigh discuss the food shortage''
::'''Adama:''' I hear they're still eating paper. Is that true?
::'''Tigh:''' No. Paper shortage.

== Official Statements ==
'''In [[Ron Moore]]'s blog on [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/ July 27th, 2006]:'''

:"We were pretty excited to have Jane too. I actually took Jane's first pitch way back in my early days at Star Trek and I had the pleasure of buying what turned out to be her first sale. I hadn't seen her since, but I'd followed her career from afar and was very proud to see her do so well. Turns out that Jane was a huge fan of Galactica and really wanted to do a script for us, so we jumped on the chance. I think we're all hoping that we could get her on staff at some point in the future, but we'll have to wait and see how everything shakes out for Season Four -- and whether she's even available, she's very much in demand these days. Her episode this year is "The Passage" (originally Ep 9) and deals with a harrowing voyage of the rag-tag fleet and focuses on Kat."

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Captain [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Jane Espenson]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:The Passage/Archive 1

2006-12-10T07:02:21Z

Straycat0: /* Fourth squadron leader */

== I cried ==
When I watched the episode tonight, I cried at the end. It was a really sad ending. If an episode makes me cry, that means ''it'' was '''really''' good. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:31, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:I was just left in shock. What a way to die...and to do it knowingly while saving a civilian ship... [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:46, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:You weren't the only one, Shane. You weren't the only one. Note to Self: When an episode summary says "we'll learn more about a character in this episode," prepare for mourning. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:42, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::I love Kat, I also shed a tear. :'( --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:14, 9 December 2006 (CST)

== Tether? ==

Why didn't Galactica just tether the Raptors to their ships? Or use the magnetic clamps that Raptors have to literally attach to the ships? They wouldn't lose any ships, it would save time, and be safer all at the same time. - [[User:Linaf|Linaf]] 09:21, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Jumping is precise, but not that precise. We don't know if a Jump between tethered ships, if they didn't occur simultaneously, would be a fatal move, or do nothing. In any case, the intense heat and buffeting in the cloud would likely make a tether snap or melt and be worthless. Magnetic clamping might have been possible given that Vipers that perform combat landings hold themselves fast within Galactica. However, performing a Jump while ''outside'' of another ship (which is also Jumping) is probably a Bad Idea. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:06, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Likely for the same reason Galactica has to close flight pods: Each ship's ftl drive is only capable of allowing it to jump, dragging a raptor along likely is no more possible the for galactica to jump with deployed flight pods. --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 21:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

I'm sorry but this part of the story still doesn't make sense to me. Why did the raptors have to be outside of the ships to give them jump coordinates? If radiation would fry the civilian ship computers why not simply park a raptor in their landing bays and let their computers do the work.--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 20:15, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Likely because the Raptor's sensors cant operate from inside a metal, radiation shielded landing bay... They werent designed for that type of use. Also, it may be very likely that many ships lack a landing bay, instead relying on airlocks to connect to other ships. --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 21:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

:It still doesn't make sense to me. Why not weld the raptor directly to the out hull of the civilian ships? If the rapter's computers are so well shielded why not just wrap the computers of the civilian ships in protective armour. Clearly the jump computers are small enough to be contained in a small rapter so the amount of material necessary to harden them couldn't be all that much

==Did Kat Die?==
I know this is a stupid question but why did starbuck a picture of her in the memorial hall? Snorkel378
:Yes, she died because she received a twice-fatal dose of radiation --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:10, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Then WHy did Adama Still MAke Her CAG? WHo would make someone who is dead Be A CAG. And We never saw her die. snorkel378
:It's glaringly obvious that she died. We didn't need to see her last breath to know it. She received two fatal doses. She was dying in sickbay. Kara gave her pills if she wanted to comitt suicide, because dying from radiation poisoning is extremly ugly.
:The promotion is a honorary and morale thing. It was merely posthumous, but Apollo is still the acting CAG. Adama thought that Kat's leadership and bravery are a good example for the crew --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:19, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Kat does die; there is no way for her to survive extreme radiation poisoning. However, the show's writers do not show this to enhance the drama of the moment. (Oh, Snorkel, to make an automatic signature, place four tilde characters (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) at the end of your entry.) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:24, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::I'd say it's better that we didn't see her actual death. Death scenes ''can'' a clicé if not done right. Just showing its impact on the other character was far better and more effective IMO --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:27, 9 December 2006 (CST)

U guys know that this is a thery, we would have to ask the writer. Come on what if she is still insickbay some later episode in rehab? then waht would you guys say. OO and KAra gave Kat Skin rebuilds she even said that in the scene. So u might be alive but we should not be so quick to say she died because there is no ground proof. Snorkel378 P.S. i dont give a damn about an automatic signature
:She gave her an overdose of sleeping pills. And I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but it probably "confirms" her death --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:37, 9 December 2006 (CST)

::Yep, the podcast confirms that Kat died. Just got done listening. And Snorkel, there's no need to get ratty, we just try to help :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:41, 9 December 2006 (CST)

:While the podcast does make it explicit, the story as aired makes it clear.
:* We're told that flying after the tag turns black is lethal. Kat's turns black twice
:* Kara gives her "sleeping pills ... enough"
:* When Adama tells Kat he's promoting her, she asks him herself if he knows that she's not making it out of sick bay. He does.
:* Kat isn't present when her promotion is announced. This would only happen if not only she wasn't available at the time but she never would be. If she will recover, you wait until she can be present.
:* Finally, Starbuck posts her picture on the memory wall.
:So, the answer to the question "Why did Starbuck put her picture on the wall?" is "so the audience would know that she died".
:What makes the show so appealing to me is the quality of the writing. They take the time to tell the story through the character interaction, the emotional moments. They could have had her die on screen when she collapsed and made it explicit. But instead, they write it more powerfully. --[[User:Brons|Brons]] 11:45, 9 December 2006 (CST)

::Excellent points, Brons. Another example of writing that sets BSG above other shows. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:49, 9 December 2006 (CST)

She was A good Character, Snorkel378

:Agreed. She was one of my favourite characters :( --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:37, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::Poor Kat :( *wipes away tears* --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

No doubt, Kat's dead. All the reasons above. The wall is a memorial for those who are dead, not those who are sick. And it was even in the news a former Russian spy just got wacked (assasinated by Russia) a couple weeks ago with just a small dose of radiation. Most people don't realize how dangerous radiation is because we don't deal with it on a day-to-day basis, but just a little bit can kill you. I feel that all those pilots were getting more than a small dose, other than just Kat. There could be reprocutions for all of them in the future as their health deteriorates over time.

Kat dying in this way, they could have nixed the B side story to flesh out her story. Kat was a very compelling character and her going out, well, the whole D'Anna dying over-and-over thing and the Baltar 3-way is getting boring and tedious so they could have spent more time with the Kat story. Even thus, They still did a good job of making a dramatic finish even if the story could have used a few more details.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 13:01, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:The Baltar and Three storyline is neither boring nor tedious and had only four short scenes in this episode. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:18, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::That's all opinion. Everybody's entitled to their own. But I wanted to see more of the Kat storyline and I felt the B side D'Anna story was getting in the way.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:28, 10 December 2006 (CST)

== Anti-Radiation Meds ==

Part of the summary here suggests that there were no anti-rad doses to go around for any of the pilots. I thought that at some were given to the skeleton crews of the civilian ships. Am I right on this one? [[User:Steel viper|Steel viper]] 18:38, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Perhaps this section should be titled just radiation rather than anti-radiation meds. I'm not sure why the returning rapters & pilots were subject to decontamination washing. I was under the impression the cluster had intense radiation because of so many stars so close together....not because it was filled with radioactive material. A ship inside the cluster would be exposed to intense radiation but as soon as it jumped out it would be fine. I've read the neutron bombs feed metal an intense amount of neutron s and metal objects like tanks could give off residual radiation up to two weeks after exposure. But washing wouldn't solve the problem. The 'hot' ships would have to be put aside until they cooled down.--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 20:22, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:I think that they were just trying to show that there was a decontamination process without getting into the real nitty-gritty details of it all. I would have preferred that they showed a little bit more realistic portrayal of a radiation decontamination, but at the same time I understand at this point in the season, they do cut corners where they can to recoup costs encured by the season opener. All this stuff isn't free and the research, props and everything... --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:32, 10 December 2006 (CST)

== Fourth squadron leader ==

As we saw at the end of this episode, ''Galactica'' has four squadrons of pilots under the command of CAG. The squadron leaders were (before Kat's death, of course): Starbuck, Kat, Two Times and... Did anyone notice who was the fourth? -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:44, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Two Times was the name of the third squad leader? Could only make out the word "Times" :) You've got better eyes then I do.
::It was Ricky "Two Times" Richardson. I'm currently completely updating the List of Pilots page. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:18, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:::I saw Richardson too but missed Ricky and Two Times. Does anyone have this episode yet on iTunes?--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 01:02, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:The Passage/Archive 1

2006-12-10T06:32:20Z

Straycat0: /* Anti-Radiation Meds */

Talk:The Passage/Archive 1

2006-12-10T06:28:28Z

Straycat0: /* Did Kat Die? */

== I cried ==
When I watched the episode tonight, I cried at the end. It was a really sad ending. If an episode makes me cry, that means ''it'' was '''really''' good. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:31, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:I was just left in shock. What a way to die...and to do it knowingly while saving a civilian ship... [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:46, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:You weren't the only one, Shane. You weren't the only one. Note to Self: When an episode summary says "we'll learn more about a character in this episode," prepare for mourning. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:42, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::I love Kat, I also shed a tear. :'( --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:14, 9 December 2006 (CST)

== Tether? ==

Why didn't Galactica just tether the Raptors to their ships? Or use the magnetic clamps that Raptors have to literally attach to the ships? They wouldn't lose any ships, it would save time, and be safer all at the same time. - [[User:Linaf|Linaf]] 09:21, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Jumping is precise, but not that precise. We don't know if a Jump between tethered ships, if they didn't occur simultaneously, would be a fatal move, or do nothing. In any case, the intense heat and buffeting in the cloud would likely make a tether snap or melt and be worthless. Magnetic clamping might have been possible given that Vipers that perform combat landings hold themselves fast within Galactica. However, performing a Jump while ''outside'' of another ship (which is also Jumping) is probably a Bad Idea. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:06, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Likely for the same reason Galactica has to close flight pods: Each ship's ftl drive is only capable of allowing it to jump, dragging a raptor along likely is no more possible the for galactica to jump with deployed flight pods. --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 21:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

I'm sorry but this part of the story still doesn't make sense to me. Why did the raptors have to be outside of the ships to give them jump coordinates? If radiation would fry the civilian ship computers why not simply park a raptor in their landing bays and let their computers do the work.--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 20:15, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Likely because the Raptor's sensors cant operate from inside a metal, radiation shielded landing bay... They werent designed for that type of use. Also, it may be very likely that many ships lack a landing bay, instead relying on airlocks to connect to other ships. --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 21:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

:It still doesn't make sense to me. Why not weld the raptor directly to the out hull of the civilian ships? If the rapter's computers are so well shielded why not just wrap the computers of the civilian ships in protective armour. Clearly the jump computers are small enough to be contained in a small rapter so the amount of material necessary to harden them couldn't be all that much

==Did Kat Die?==
I know this is a stupid question but why did starbuck a picture of her in the memorial hall? Snorkel378
:Yes, she died because she received a twice-fatal dose of radiation --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:10, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Then WHy did Adama Still MAke Her CAG? WHo would make someone who is dead Be A CAG. And We never saw her die. snorkel378
:It's glaringly obvious that she died. We didn't need to see her last breath to know it. She received two fatal doses. She was dying in sickbay. Kara gave her pills if she wanted to comitt suicide, because dying from radiation poisoning is extremly ugly.
:The promotion is a honorary and morale thing. It was merely posthumous, but Apollo is still the acting CAG. Adama thought that Kat's leadership and bravery are a good example for the crew --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:19, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Kat does die; there is no way for her to survive extreme radiation poisoning. However, the show's writers do not show this to enhance the drama of the moment. (Oh, Snorkel, to make an automatic signature, place four tilde characters (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) at the end of your entry.) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:24, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::I'd say it's better that we didn't see her actual death. Death scenes ''can'' a clicé if not done right. Just showing its impact on the other character was far better and more effective IMO --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:27, 9 December 2006 (CST)

U guys know that this is a thery, we would have to ask the writer. Come on what if she is still insickbay some later episode in rehab? then waht would you guys say. OO and KAra gave Kat Skin rebuilds she even said that in the scene. So u might be alive but we should not be so quick to say she died because there is no ground proof. Snorkel378 P.S. i dont give a damn about an automatic signature
:She gave her an overdose of sleeping pills. And I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but it probably "confirms" her death --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:37, 9 December 2006 (CST)

::Yep, the podcast confirms that Kat died. Just got done listening. And Snorkel, there's no need to get ratty, we just try to help :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:41, 9 December 2006 (CST)

:While the podcast does make it explicit, the story as aired makes it clear.
:* We're told that flying after the tag turns black is lethal. Kat's turns black twice
:* Kara gives her "sleeping pills ... enough"
:* When Adama tells Kat he's promoting her, she asks him herself if he knows that she's not making it out of sick bay. He does.
:* Kat isn't present when her promotion is announced. This would only happen if not only she wasn't available at the time but she never would be. If she will recover, you wait until she can be present.
:* Finally, Starbuck posts her picture on the memory wall.
:So, the answer to the question "Why did Starbuck put her picture on the wall?" is "so the audience would know that she died".
:What makes the show so appealing to me is the quality of the writing. They take the time to tell the story through the character interaction, the emotional moments. They could have had her die on screen when she collapsed and made it explicit. But instead, they write it more powerfully. --[[User:Brons|Brons]] 11:45, 9 December 2006 (CST)

::Excellent points, Brons. Another example of writing that sets BSG above other shows. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:49, 9 December 2006 (CST)

She was A good Character, Snorkel378

:Agreed. She was one of my favourite characters :( --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:37, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::Poor Kat :( *wipes away tears* --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

No doubt, Kat's dead. All the reasons above. The wall is a memorial for those who are dead, not those who are sick. And it was even in the news a former Russian spy just got wacked (assasinated by Russia) a couple weeks ago with just a small dose of radiation. Most people don't realize how dangerous radiation is because we don't deal with it on a day-to-day basis, but just a little bit can kill you. I feel that all those pilots were getting more than a small dose, other than just Kat. There could be reprocutions for all of them in the future as their health deteriorates over time.

Kat dying in this way, they could have nixed the B side story to flesh out her story. Kat was a very compelling character and her going out, well, the whole D'Anna dying over-and-over thing and the Baltar 3-way is getting boring and tedious so they could have spent more time with the Kat story. Even thus, They still did a good job of making a dramatic finish even if the story could have used a few more details.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 13:01, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:The Baltar and Three storyline is neither boring nor tedious and had only four short scenes in this episode. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:18, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::That's all opinion. Everybody's entitled to their own. But I wanted to see more of the Kat storyline and I felt the B side D'Anna story was getting in the way.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:28, 10 December 2006 (CST)

== Anti-Radiation Meds ==

Part of the summary here suggests that there were no anti-rad doses to go around for any of the pilots. I thought that at some were given to the skeleton crews of the civilian ships. Am I right on this one? [[User:Steel viper|Steel viper]] 18:38, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Perhaps this section should be titled just radiation rather than anti-radiation meds. I'm not sure why the returning rapters & pilots were subject to decontamination washing. I was under the impression the cluster had intense radiation because of so many stars so close together....not because it was filled with radioactive material. A ship inside the cluster would be exposed to intense radiation but as soon as it jumped out it would be fine. I've read the neutron bombs feed metal an intense amount of neutron s and metal objects like tanks could give off residual radiation up to two weeks after exposure. But washing wouldn't solve the problem. The 'hot' ships would have to be put aside until they cooled down.--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 20:22, 9 December 2006 (CST)

== Fourth squadron leader ==

As we saw at the end of this episode, ''Galactica'' has four squadrons of pilots under the command of CAG. The squadron leaders were (before Kat's death, of course): Starbuck, Kat, Two Times and... Did anyone notice who was the fourth? -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:44, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Two Times was the name of the third squad leader? Could only make out the word "Times" :) You've got better eyes then I do.
::It was Ricky "Two Times" Richardson. I'm currently completely updating the List of Pilots page. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:18, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:The Passage/Archive 1

2006-12-09T19:01:57Z

Straycat0: /* Did Kat Die? */

Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques

2006-12-08T21:22:04Z

Straycat0: /* Mark Sheppard's character */

Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques

2006-12-08T21:21:18Z

Straycat0: /* Mark Sheppard's character */

The Son Also Rises

2006-12-08T17:52:10Z

Straycat0: /* Official Statements */

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= The Son Also Rises
| season= 3
| episode= 18
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]]
| story=
| director= [[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[Maelstrom]]
| next= [[Crossroads, Part I]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Coming soon <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/the-son-also-rises/episode/832191/summary.html?tag=ep_list;title;17|title=The Son Also Rises }}</ref>''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*The title "The Son Also Rises" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s3/317.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.
*As always, episode titles can and do change up until the time they are finally aired.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
*Ron D Moore, in his November 29, 2006 blog, stated that Mark Sheppard would play a major role in the last three episodes of the season.

*According to the podcast The Battlestar Roundtable, Mark Sheppard will play Rommel Lamphkin, a very unusual man who talks too much and is a lawyer involved in a very important case in the Colonial Fleet. His story arc will carry through the last 3 episodes of the season.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[imdb:nm0791968|Mark Sheppard]] as Rommel Lamphkin

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Son Also Rises

2006-12-08T17:51:44Z

Straycat0: /* Guest Stars */

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= The Son Also Rises
| season= 3
| episode= 18
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]]
| story=
| director= [[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[Maelstrom]]
| next= [[Crossroads, Part I]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Coming soon <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/the-son-also-rises/episode/832191/summary.html?tag=ep_list;title;17|title=The Son Also Rises }}</ref>''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*The title "The Son Also Rises" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s3/317.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.
*As always, episode titles can and do change up until the time they are finally aired.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
Ron D Moore, in his November 29, 2006 blog, stated that Mark Sheppard would play a major role in the last three episodes of the season.

According to the podcast The Battlestar Roundtable, Mark Sheppard will play Rommel Lamphkin, a very unusual man who talks too much and is a lawyer involved in a very important case in the Colonial Fleet. His story arc will carry through the last 3 episodes of the season.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[imdb:nm0791968|Mark Sheppard]] as Rommel Lamphkin

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Son Also Rises

2006-12-08T17:51:01Z

Straycat0: /* Official Statements */

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= The Son Also Rises
| season= 3
| episode= 18
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]]
| story=
| director= [[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[Maelstrom]]
| next= [[Crossroads, Part I]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Coming soon <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/the-son-also-rises/episode/832191/summary.html?tag=ep_list;title;17|title=The Son Also Rises }}</ref>''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*The title "The Son Also Rises" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s3/317.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.
*As always, episode titles can and do change up until the time they are finally aired.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
Ron D Moore, in his November 29, 2006 blog, stated that Mark Sheppard would play a major role in the last three episodes of the season.

According to the podcast The Battlestar Roundtable, Mark Sheppard will play Rommel Lamphkin, a very unusual man who talks too much and is a lawyer involved in a very important case in the Colonial Fleet. His story arc will carry through the last 3 episodes of the season.

== Guest Stars ==

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|The Son Also Rises]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Crossroads, Part I

2006-12-04T05:44:01Z

Straycat0: /* Official Statements */

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= Crossroads, Part I
| season= 3
| episode= 19
| guests=
| writer= Unknown
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[The Son Also Rises]]
| next= [[Crossroads, Part II]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Coming soon <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/episode-3-19/episode/832193/summary.html?tag=ep_list;title;18|title=Crossroads, Part I }}</ref>''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*The title "Crossroads, Part I" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/news/2006/11/season_three_finale_is_crossroads.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.
*As always, episode titles can and do change up until the time they are finally aired.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
Ron D Moore, in his blog for November 29, 2006, stated that Mark Sheppard would play a major role in the season finale.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[imdb:nm0791968|Mark Sheppard]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Unfinished Business/Archive 1

2006-12-04T05:35:24Z

Straycat0: /* Re: Analysis */

== The 'stache strikes again ==

Sweet mother of Artemis, does this http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000psspt/g274 mean what I think it means??? (Major incredibly mindblowing spoilers.)--[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 14:34, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:Depends on what you think. "Unfinished Business" consists largely of flashbacks to the missing year --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:42, 10 November 2006 (CST)
::I'm thinking that, since Roslin was no longer president, Adama felt like he could follow up on their Resurrection Ship kiss. The cigarettes both of them are holding pretty much sum that up for me. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 14:54, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:::That kiss wasn't really romantic in nature (shippers aside). The two are friends and probably haven't seen each other for a couple of months. Adama seems to enjoy being able to see a sky above his head again --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:59, 10 November 2006 (CST)
::::Probably right. I just got excited. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 15:01, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:::The "cigarettes" they are both smoking are--we are given to understand in the commentary podcast, and by the way that Adama handles his--a bit... um... relaxing. Sharing them suggests a certain amount of camaraderie and "letting their hair down". One is left wondering what the degree of social acceptance is for such things. Here, it would be a bit unusual for an admiral and ex-President. --[[User:Brons|Brons]] 14:12, 3 December 2006 (CST)
Is it just me or do you see a ring on Adama's wedding finger?? [[user:lordmutt|lordmutt]] 11:30, 11 November (EST)
:Adama's had the ring on since the Miniseries. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:45, 10 November 2006 (CST)
::::I like to imagine the whole Roslin-Adama lovey-lovey thing, but based on Mary McDonnell's video Q & A, this is more of a "(sigh) Well, frak, at least we're not getting shot at" scene. They do look like old friends, though, and that's comforting. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:34, 10 November 2006 (CST)

== Airdate ==
Why not on the day after Thanksgiving as it should be? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 17:13, 22 November 2006 (CST)
:Thats what it say on scifi website. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 17:28, 22 November 2006 (CST)
::I know, but what I mean is, why isn't Sci Fi airing it on the 24th. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 17:36, 22 November 2006 (CST)
:::Its [http://www.scifi.com/schedulebot/index.php3?date=24-NOV-2006&feed_req movie marathon] because of the holiday. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 17:40, 22 November 2006 (CST)
::Ever heard of "[[w:Black Friday|Black Friday]]"...? Also, every channel is practically running a marathon the day after, since ratings are typically down on the days following Thanksgiving, seeing as the day after Thanksgiving is the official start of the holiday shopping season. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 17:44, 22 November 2006 (CST)
:::I thought Black Friday just referred to shopping. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 17:46, 22 November 2006 (CST)

Damn, I just realized I'm gonna miss the 9 o'clock airing and possibly the 11 o'clock airing 'cause I have a date. (Plus it's my birthday on the 1st). --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 08:16, 30 November 2006 (CST)
:There's always iTunes, dude. And, happy birthday. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:49, 30 November 2006 (CST)
::Thanks man, and they also air it mondays at 11. And I think Fridays at 1AM. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 13:15, 30 November 2006 (CST)

==Profile updates==
Hey guys someone should update Apollos and Starbucks Profile SNorkel378

== Re: Analysis ==

Regarding the comment that "Kara Thrace does not feel obligated to follow rules of engagement". Do we know that for sure? They certainly appeared to be boxing and not kick-boxing, but do we really know that they are playing by Marquis of Queensbury rules? Or might the kicks be a bit more acceptable in their tradition?

Perhaps I'm questioning how close their culture and ours are more than usual after seeing Adama toss away that roach, but as I was watching, I wasn't sure exactly what the "rules of engagement" were for several reasons:

*They never call it "boxing"--always "fighting".
*Lee had his tags on, and addressed her as "Captain" when he challenged Kara. Are they outside the "tradition"?
*Kara was barefoot while fighting. Does that imply anything?
*Kara threw the first kick moderately early. Lee responded with a choke hold.

--[[User:Brons|Brons]] 15:27, 3 December 2006 (CST)

:I went with the explination that it simply wasn't an official fight. The tourney was over and they didn't have Tigh as referree anymore. So as far as Kara is concerned, everything was allowed. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:36, 3 December 2006 (CST)
::Though, Starbuck did hit Hot Dog when he was "half-way" down. I think Starbuck is more concerned with winning and less concerned with following the rules to the letter of the T. This would be consistent with her character.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 23:35, 3 December 2006 (CST)

The Eye of Jupiter

2006-12-01T22:48:03Z

Straycat0: TV Guide Exclusive linked from scfi.om

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= The Eye of Jupiter
| image=Season 3 - Promo - Eye of Jupiter - AndersHilliardBaroly.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 11
| guests=
| writer= [[Mark Verheiden]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= December 15, 2006
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[The Passage]]
| next= [[Rapture]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''The crew of Galactica makes a stop at the barren Algae planet. <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/the-eye-of-jupiter-1/episode/822638/summary.html |title=The Eye of Jupiter }}</ref>''

: '''The Temple of Five''' is discovered, leading to a standoff between the Cylons and the Colonials over the '''Eye of Jupiter'''. Also: the Cylons bring news about Sharon's baby. - ''TV Guide''

''Logline: The possible discovery of the Eye of Jupiter on the algae planet leads to a deadly stand-off, as the Cylons and humans risk all for a chance to find the way to Earth.

While working on the algae planet, Tyrol (Aaron Douglas) discovers the Temple of Five, reputed to be the home of the Eye of Jupiter, which will guide the ones who discover it to Earth. His report is intercepted by the Cylons, who request a meeting with Adama (Edward James Olmos) and Laura (Mary McDonnell). Their proposal: let us have the Eye and we will let you leave unharmed. Adama's counter-proposal: make any move to take the Eye and we'll nuke the planet.

The Cylons bring another piece of news: Sharon (Grace Park) and Helo's (Tahmoh Penikett) baby is alive, but not well. Sharon is initially skeptical, but when Adama confirms that Laura hid the baby at her school, she and Tyrol being to make plans to rescue her.

As the standoff continues, tensions rise in both camps. On the Cylon baseship, D'Anna's (Lucy Lawless) sense that she and Baltar (James Callis) share a destiny that might not include the others sows dissension, while on the algae planet, efforts to protect the Eye are complicated by Lee's simmering affair with Kara (Katee Sackhoff), especially since Lee (Jamie Bamber) is counting on Anders (Michael Trucco), Kara's husband, to rally the civilians to the cause. Then the Cylons launch a flight of raiders, bound for the algae planet, forcing Adama to show he's not bluffing. <ref>{{cite web|url=http://screenings.tvguide.com/programs/detail/4|title=TV Guide Exclusive }}</ref>''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==
* This episode title is peculiar. After the fall of the Greeks to the Romans in ancient real-world Earth history, the Romans adapted the Olympian pantheon of gods but changed names and some of their stories. The leader, [[Zeus]], became Jupiter, and [[Hera, Lord of Kobol|Hera]] become Juno. Does this mean that there are Roman-like mythological parallels/influences within the Twelve Colonies?
** While the title reference could be for the ''planet'' [[wikipedia:Jupiter (planet)|Jupiter]], this infers that the Twelve Colonies know of the nature of Earth's solar system. This is unlikely since they still haven't a clue of the exact location. However, the fact that the [[Tomb of Athena]]'s hologram appears to be created from data that could only come from someone that noted the stellar positioning from Earth, this could suggest that the planet's name is of Earth origin (see [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies]]).
** The [[Mercury class battlestar]] is another odd occurance of Roman mythos in the Re-imagined Series, as Hermes is the Greek name of this flying god.
** [[Mars Day]] is also another odd occurance, as Mars is the Roman name of the Greek god [[Ares]].

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*According to an [http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/4175/58/ interview] with executive producer [[David Eick]], the mid-season cliffhanger story, spanning episodes 10 and 11, will center on "discovering the next big clue on the road to Earth."
*There will be a mid-season break between episodes 10 and 11. However it will not be as long as the hiatus between "[[Pegasus]]" and "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]": while that mid-season break lasted four months, this is a normal mid-season Christmas break which will last a single month.
*According to a [http://www.kamloopsnews.ca/news.html news report], this episode is being filmed in [[Wikipedia:Kamloops, British Columbia|Kamloops, British Columbia]], not Vancouver (and is considered a big economic boon to Kamloops as a result). The episode takes place on an unnamed planet that the Fleet encounters. According to [[Jamie Bamber]], the Fleet is still in search of Earth, but food supplies have started to run desperately low. ''Galactica'' encounters a planet capable of supporting life, so Apollo is sent with a team to the surface to set up base camp and scout it out to investigate possible food sources. However, the Cylons then arrive, resulting in "a pitched battle" between the Colonial ground team and Cylon Centurions. [[Aaron Douglas]] (Chief [[Galen Tyrol]]) and [[Nicki Clyne]] ([[Cally Henderson Tyrol]]) are also present in this episode in scenes with Bamber, meaning their characters will survive at least this long into season 3.
*Another [http://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/portals-code/list.cgi?paper=15&cat=44&id=702286&more= report] has revealed that [[Michael Trucco]] ([[Samuel Anders]]) appears in this episode, which means he survives this far into season 3.
== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Henderson Tyrol]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Alisen Down]] as [[Jean Barolay]]
*[[imdb:nm1052369|Diego Diablo Del Mar]] as [[Hillard]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Eye of Jupiter, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Eye of Jupiter, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Eye of Jupiter, The]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Woman King

2006-12-01T15:42:38Z

Straycat0: /* Overview */ This part was OK

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= The Woman King
| season= 3
| episode= 14
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]
| next= [[A Day in the Life]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[Helo]] investigates the claims of Sagittarons that a doctor is discriminating against them by providing substandard medical care.

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
The title "The Woman King" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s3/3x1.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
[[Bradley Thompson]] [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques#Episode 13|confirmed]] that "The Woman King" is the working title for this episode, but cannot comment on unofficially released storylines. He also states that working titles can change right up to the moment the show debuts.

== Guest Stars ==

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Woman King, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Woman King, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Woman King, The]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Woman King

2006-12-01T15:34:21Z

Straycat0: /* Overview */ Gateworld not a legitimate source for plotline spoilers, see previously added note in Notes

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= The Woman King
| season= 3
| episode= 14
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]
| next= [[A Day in the Life]]
}}

== Overview ==

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
The title "The Woman King" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s3/3x1.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
[[Bradley Thompson]] [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques#Episode 13|confirmed]] that "The Woman King" is the working title for this episode, but cannot comment on unofficially released storylines. He also states that working titles can change right up to the moment the show debuts.

== Guest Stars ==

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Woman King, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Woman King, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Woman King, The]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

User talk:Spencerian

2006-11-30T18:21:18Z

Straycat0: /* Addition to Unfinished Business */

''For discussions prior to January 1, 2006, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASpencerian&diff=21890&oldid=21664 click here.]''

''For discussions prior to June 1, 2006, [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=User_talk:Spencerian&oldid=60768 click here.]''

''For discussions prior to September 1, 2006, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Spencerian&oldid=75116 click here.]''

== Re: Matrix Wiki ==

No problem. :) I'll work on it at the Hangerbay. We talking Green/Black/White scheme? I think I can do "Glowing" text for the links. That would be neat. ;-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 16:12, 31 August 2006 (CDT)

:Shane, your extraordinary talents there will be greatly appreciated. It is an ultra-small wiki whose look needs a good start. I'm an admin there now as well. Recommendations: Don't change the wiki's name; yep, a green/black/white scheme would be great, toy with the glowing links, it sounds interesting; even the most basic templates are missing; and seek out a person named One.relic, who says he is a graphic designer and may be like Mercifull here in his skills. Content is desperately needed too--we haven't standards or conventions yet, but I'm hoping to steer things to parallel our rules here; aired/filmed content is king, written is OK (comics and official printed matter), games are separate continuity (except "Enter the Matrix"). You da man--thanks for considering. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:11, 3 September 2006 (CDT)

::http://hb.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Main_Page&useskin=bsgmatrixbook :-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:09, 3 September 2006 (CDT)

:::Interesting. Give it a test page there and see what the others think. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:07, 3 September 2006 (CDT)

::::You don't even need to register there. It's open to IP editing. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:45, 3 September 2006 (CDT)

:::::It'll probably remain that way until or unless we get hit too hard by spammers or vandals. We were open to IP editing until a year ago, as you know. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:23, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
::::::aye. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:30, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

== DragonCon 2006 Special Info ==

I attended [http://www.dragoncon.org DragonCon 2006] in Atlanta this past Labor Day weekend. It was heavily rich with ''Battlestar'' panels and guests, and I have quite a few stories to tell, and a few pictures. One particular bit of news I have will make many contributors very happy. I'll give the scoop sometime this week. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:35, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
:My son attended, guess I better give him a call. Can't wait for your update :)! --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:07, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
:Wonderful! Looking forward to what you have to say! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:29, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
:sweet. :-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:51, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

===DragonCon 2006 Report===
DragonCon, for those not in the know, is a general SF convention held annually in Atlanta, Georgia. This convention is one of the largest in the country, with over 20,000 attendees. This was my first visit at this convention after hearing much about it from other friends.

This year, the "con" featured many stars from the series, who met fans, signed autographs and took photos with the fans. Actors [[Richard Hatch]], [[Tahmoh Penikett]], [[Aaron Douglas]], [[Kate Vernon]], and [[James Callis]] were on hand. Of them, Hatch was happily discussing both his roles in the Original and Re-imagined Series with equal enthusiasm, signing his Original Series continuity books in his role as [[Apollo (TOS)|Apollo]] and photos of himself as [[Tom Zarek]]. Kate Vernon's loveliness is understated on-screen. James Callis, sadly, was nowhere to be found during my visits; he was the only BSG star I did not personally see.

I made a beeline to Aaron Douglas and Tahmoh Penikett, who appeared to be having too much fun with the fans. I commented to Tahmoh that he picked one of the best short-term jobs that turned long-term in his role as Helo. After lining their pockets with a little cash for autographs, I asked my girlfriend to take a photo of the three of us. She did it fine, but I bungled the saving of the photo. I'm still gnashing my teeth over that. A friend of mine (who stars as George Lucas in the [http://www.atomfilms.com/af/content/pitching_lucas best-of-show Official Star Wars Fan Film for 2006]) visited Aaron and Tahmoh as well. They told him immediately that they both began betting if he (whose name is actually "George") was the real George Lucas as they watched my friend roam the aisles of the signing area.

DragonCon was filled with panels on Battlestar's influences and comparisons to other SF shows. Being my first trip, things were so busy (and the programming schedule so confusing to read) that I missed attending any of these panels, as well as a Friday party they called the "Colonial Day Celebration."

[[Image:DC2006 SuenixOfficers.jpg|200px]][[Image:DC2006flightsuit.jpg|200px]][[Image:DC06_WikiCrew.jpg|200px]]

But it was the number of fans who built their costumes, and their intricate attention to detail, that struck me. There were several "Starbucks," and many officers (both in Original Series [[Colonial Warrior]] costumes as well as Re-imagined Series costumes). I saw three [[flight suit]]s, a half-dozen hangar deck crew, and many RDM officers.

What thrilled me most was when my girlfriend and I (dressed as "Trinity" and "Morpheus" from the "Matrix" movies) ran into a group of people in new-BSG costumes. I asked them if they knew about the Battlestar Wiki. Not only did they know about the wiki--they used the wiki's information on the various details of the officers and flight suit uniforms and insignia to help build their costumes! Sadly, the photos I have uploaded here were done with my handheld phone camera and are of poor quality that does not do justice to the group's handywork. It would be great if one of them would upload an improved photo should any of them read this.

Aside from the popularity of "Firefly" and its movie, ''Serenity'', next to the Star Wars fans and many, many superhero costumes, Battlestar Galactica, old and new, was well represented. And we (the wiki) helped indirectly to make that happen. All contributors should feel very proud. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:26, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
:The flight suits would be cool. Ive always thought they were pretty wicked. You gotta wonder if some fo those people in the pics are in physical shape enough to be in the military tho ;) hehe --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 11:34, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
:: Thought that you might find this of interest [http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/battlestargalacticacostumes/ Battlestar Galactica Costumes Yahoo Group]. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:06, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Thanks, Frankie. I just signed up for it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:31, 7 September 2006 (CDT)
: [[User:Rinsie|Rinsie]] (Our Cain) gave me a hand in adding the photo. Our Apollo pointed us here. Thanks again for the shout-out, and indeed, we could NOT have created the costumes without the help of the contributors at Battlestar Wiki. See you again next year! [http://www.thestormhaven.com/images/toshare/DragonCon06/FinishedCostumes2.jpg (Here's another link to the photo.)] [[User:Imperatrix|Imperatrix]] 12:45, 9 September 2006 (CDT)--[[User:Imperatrix|Imperatrix]]

::Thanks, Imperatrix. That's a MUCH better photo; we can see the distinctive colors and detail that your group worked hard on. (I ''thought'' that Rinsie there was striking to look like Cain...I was impressed.). To preserve that photo we might add it here to our media library. We're all happy that the data here helped add to your fun! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:58, 9 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Spenc, it was alreayd uploaded by [[User:Rinsie|Rinsie]]. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:06, 9 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Cool beans. Thanks. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:07, 9 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::[[:Image:FinishedCostumes2.jpg]] is the link. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:11, 9 September 2006 (CDT)

Well, no sense just showing the link. Here's the photo: --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:30, 9 September 2006 (CDT)

[[Image:FinishedCostumes2.jpg|center|200px]]

== Message at media ==

Left [[:md:User talk:Spencerian|you a message at media]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:04, 12 September 2006 (CDT)
== Reply ==
Would it not be gramaticly incorrect to not capitalise it however, Battlestar is a name in it's self is it not? [[User:MatthewFenton|MatthewFenton]] 08:12, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
:Does this belong somewhere else maybe?
:"battlestar" is a shiptype. You don't capitalize "destroyer", "frigate", "cruiser" or "battleship", do you? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:24, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
::Serenity's answer is correct. Technically, we need not capitalize "Viper," "Raptor" or "Raider" here by the same convention, but the wiki accepts it in either form (although most capitalize these types). In short, "battlestar" is not a proper noun and thus is not capitalized. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:32, 16 September 2006 (CDT)

== Looks great ==

Thanks for the welcome back! The site looks great. Everything is much expanded compared to last time I was here. Good work. :) Cheers, [[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 07:42, 21 September 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks are best spread to many, many contributors here. They are such nitpickers for precision. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:49, 21 September 2006 (CDT)

== MediaWiki:Emailuser ==

Spence, since you're a major contributor and seem like a smart guy, I thought I'd ask you this: Could you send me a copy of the source code for [[MediaWiki:Emailuser]]? I'm experimenting on another wiki and trying to see if I can implement this there. Any helpful hints or tips you can offer as well would be greatly appreciated, and/or if you know a resource I can check out to learn more about it. Thanks very much! --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 00:03, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
:I don't understand. The source code? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 07:05, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
::It was more Greek to me. Might want to ask Sasoriza for specifics? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:25, 25 September 2006 (CDT)

== Jammer Move ==
So I take it you heard Martin too? I'm going back to listen again, but it sounded more like an "L" name (as somebody else noted in the "Resistance" talk). I had wanted to avoid moving it until we'd nailed down exactly what the name was. (Which is why I replied on Jammer's talk page.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:49, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

:Yeah, I listened carefully, but do verify; I'm under the weather today... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:50, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

::Oh. My bad. Now I hear it. It's at about 1:29 remaining, by the way. James Martin it is. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:52, 26 September 2006 (CDT)

== TOS Battle Series ==
Thanks for present-tensing (etc.) those battle articles. It's really strange reading articles that I contributed to so long ago. I like the symmetry that it creates between TOS and RDM, though (each having their own battle series). I suppose the same could be done up for 1980, if I ever getting around to watching that show. (Assuming it doesn't rot out or otherwise damage the portions of my Tivo's hard drive that the show occupies.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:56, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
:No problem. I was debating this with Merv, who went and did it anyway on the RDM counterparts. I prefer consistency and all that. Reads a bit more lively, too. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:52, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

== Derived Content ==
Been working on the fanwanking essay and input some derived content. I think that it would be neat to add something about Occam's Razor and keeping plausible specualation and logical deduction at the simpliest level. Hope that makes sense. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:03, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
:A very good addition. I was going to add something to the fanwanking info as well. It's a slippery slope that needs clear differentiation. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 06:46, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
::Yeah, the more I worked on it, the more I realized it is a fine line. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 07:12, 4 October 2006 (CDT)

==CNP vs virus==
[[User talk:Mercifull#CNP vs virus|Here]] you said that you reverted an edit i made, all I did was do a minor edit to the categories TOS->RDM I didn't make the change that you mentioned. ;) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 10:57, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:Oh, my bad. I thought I read the edit history right. Sorry for that. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:02, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
::No problem, i've made the same mistake before too :) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 11:03, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Yeah. Figured out who. It was Merv on his misinformation campaign that did it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:16, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

== My RFA ==

{| class="messagebox"
|[[Image:NBSG-AdmiralPin.jpg|80px]]
| Thank you for participating in my [[BW:RFA|RfA]], which passed with a tally of '''7/0/0'''. I can't express how much it means to me to become an administrator. I'll work even more and harder to become useful for the community. If you need a helping hand, don't hesitate to contact me. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:35, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
|}

That must be one of the coolest (and well formatted) thank-you messages I've seen. Now, get back to mopping! :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:12, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:Roger and out! [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:14, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

== Mountin Range ==

I have a screencap of the range where the Raptors FTL to, but I have no idea of the name. Figured you know. I can't find the article. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:07, 10 October 2006 (CDT)
:Found it. :-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 04:21, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

== Created a.. ==

Template to hold the "Science Series". :-) Enjoy! :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:57, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

:I noticed! Thanks for the addition. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:58, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

== map ==

I recreated it. (get rid of it when you are done)[[User:JosephK19|JosephK19]] 02:59, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

[[Image:Battlestar system.png]]

== Separate Continuity....Doesn't Require a Plot? ==

Hi, I just saw that you posted the Separate Continuity tag on the few [[Battlestar Galactica Collectable Card Game]] pages. I'm not disagreeing with this tag, but am just puzzled. The tag, according the desciption, is for "official products whose characters, events and situations differ in significant context from aired episodes." I guess I'm just trying to figure out a way that product that does not employ a narrative device could make significant changes to the canon of the show. If anything, and I've got the entire premier set, I believe the BSG CCG does a phenomenal job at capturing the events that it catalogues. A lot of the personnel cards have character quotes, for instance. The CCG has proven to an excellent source of canonical information, such as being where Crashdown's given name was discovered. ........Allright, I'm out of comments here. Again, I'm not trying to disagree, just to show my limited understanding of the Separate Continuity tag. These aren't comic books, for sure! Thanks. - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 23:10, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

:Hey there. Battlestar Wiki assumes that anything outside of aired episodes and outtakes aren't always in direct control of the actual writers and producers of the show. The new [[Battlestar Galactica 0|Re-imagined Series comic book]] is a good example. While it uses characters and situations from the show, the writers of the comic aren't obligated to work with the known devices and histories of the show beyond what has been stipulated in their license with Universal. As a result, there are notable additions, artwork gaffes and other changes that differ from aired content, such a a large viewing window on the side of the battlestar (''Galactica'' has no windows except for its bow observation area) and the mentioning of characters never discussed in the aired show (like [[Darrin Dualla]]) or complex changes of a type that tend to haunt the aired characters (the resurrection of [[Zak Adama]] in the comic would reopen a season 1 story arc wound between Lee and Bill).

:The comic team can't kill out a central character, ship or change the established history where they write their stories, but other than that, anything goes. So, we compromise. SC doesn't mean that ''everything'' in the licensed product is wrong, but that some of it (at least) may not be right. Yep, I was the one that asked the Crashdown name question after I picked up the card game and saw it--very cool to have Ngarenn confirm it. However, since his name was never used in the show, we needed an official source to confirm it; the card guys could have made it up. I'm betting that many things in those cards are canon, but we have to verify it on the [[BW:OC]] or other official source before we mark it as official. So, if you find something in a licensed product, bring it up on the OC and maybe we'll get more interesting confirmations. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:08, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

==Cylon Speculation Page==
Good edit on Adm. Cain's speculation, I hadn't even thought to include the fact that she perished. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 19:01, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

== Questions Section Policy ==
Per Joe's thought [[MediaWiki talk:Sitenotice|here]], we'd appreciate it if you could give [[BW:FORUM]] a going over before we go ahead and plug it in the sitenotice. I pretty much ripped it out of the TANK discussion, and Joe touched it up a bit. We wanted your input before "going live". Thanks. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:23, 14 November 2006 (CST)
:Done. See my comments on the TANK talk page. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:43, 14 November 2006 (CST)

==NCD2539==
Thanks for making the article about this, when i watched it where was a massive SciFi advertisement for GhostHunters covering it or summit and coudlnt be 100% sure what it said. :D --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 18:24, 17 November 2006 (CST)

==Revert==
Why did you [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Battlestar_Wiki:Think_Tank/Fanwanking&curid=11775&diff=92717&oldid=92688&rcid=92234 revert the spelling corrections] on the fankwanking page? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:29, 24 November 2006 (CST)
:My bad. Reverted back :) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:31, 24 November 2006 (CST)

== Stan the Man ==
Should we create an article for him now that he [[Battlestar_Wiki:Official_Communiques#Who.27s_the_Mop_Guy.3F|has a name]]? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:47, 28 November 2006 (CST)
:Abso-frakking-lutely! It should be a silly page, to boot since there's really not much about him. A good fake character bio. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:44, 28 November 2006 (CST)

== 1980 ==
I appreciate the help on the 1980 stuff. I just got better connectivity to my tivo unit so I should be able to provide some screencaps. Due to a glitch with Tivo2Go I can't download most of the episodes, so I may have to work something else out with a capture card. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:47, 28 November 2006 (CST)
:You are a glutton for punishment, my friend. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:41, 28 November 2006 (CST)

== Addition to Unfinished Business ==
Spence, You added a question - As Sharon Agathon is attending the boxing match, with apparently no one in objection, does this indicate that she has had furlough from her brig for some time prior to the episode, "Occupation?" - to Unfinished Business, but I think the boxing match is current time, not flashback per the blurb from TVGuide "Adama schedules a boxing tournament on Galactica to let the crew relieve tensions between the former settlers of New Caprica and those who remained with the fleet during the Cylon occupation. (TV Guide)". This makes the question moot I think but I figured since it's all upcoming stuff, I'd let you decide it since you added the question rather than change or delete the question.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 12:21, 30 November 2006 (CST)

Crossroads, Part I

2006-11-30T18:13:41Z

Straycat0: /* Official Statements */ Sorry, blog not podcast

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= Crossroads, Part I
| season= 3
| episode= 19
| guests=
| writer= Unknown
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[The Son Also Rises]]
| next= [[Crossroads, Part II]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Coming soon <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/episode-3-19/episode/832193/summary.html?tag=ep_list;title;18|title=Crossroads, Part I }}</ref>''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*The title "Crossroads, Part I" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/news/2006/11/season_three_finale_is_crossroads.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.
*As always, episode titles can and do change up until the time they are finally aired.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
Ron D Moore, in his blog for November 29, 2006, stated that Mark Shepard would play a major role in the season finale.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[imdb:nm0791968|Mark Sheppard]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Crossroads, Part I

2006-11-30T18:12:10Z

Straycat0: /* Official Statements */ added info re RDM podcast 11/29/06

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= Crossroads, Part I
| season= 3
| episode= 19
| guests=
| writer= Unknown
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[The Son Also Rises]]
| next= [[Crossroads, Part II]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Coming soon <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/episode-3-19/episode/832193/summary.html?tag=ep_list;title;18|title=Crossroads, Part I }}</ref>''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*The title "Crossroads, Part I" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/news/2006/11/season_three_finale_is_crossroads.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.
*As always, episode titles can and do change up until the time they are finally aired.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
Ron D Moore, in his podcast for November 29, 2006, stated that Mark Shepard would play a major role in the season finale.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[imdb:nm0791968|Mark Sheppard]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Crossroads, Part I

2006-11-30T18:10:16Z

Straycat0: /* Guest Stars */

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= Crossroads, Part I
| season= 3
| episode= 19
| guests=
| writer= Unknown
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-??-??
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[The Son Also Rises]]
| next= [[Crossroads, Part II]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Coming soon <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/episode-3-19/episode/832193/summary.html?tag=ep_list;title;18|title=Crossroads, Part I }}</ref>''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*The title "Crossroads, Part I" was first reported by [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/index.shtml GateWorld.net] in an [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/news/2006/11/season_three_finale_is_crossroads.shtml article] that contains unconfirmed storyline speculation.
*As always, episode titles can and do change up until the time they are finally aired.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

== Guest Stars ==
*[[imdb:nm0791968|Mark Sheppard]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Crossroads, Part I]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-21T15:47:07Z

Straycat0: /* The scene with Baltar, Six and Three in bed */

== Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) ==
I was reading the quote from Eick, "...Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies." and for some reason I felt that thie reminded me of Gorge Washington long before we was president or even commander-in-chief when, before the 7-Years-War, Washington was involved in a skirmish with the French over Fort Necessity, aka Pittsburgh (yes, we fought a battle for that city) that led to Washington signing a treaty stating, unbeknownst to him because he couldn't speak French and his interpreter sucked, that he committed attrocities against France in the name of the British Empire. This, according to many historians, led to the 7 Years War, known in America as the French and Indian War, that would decimate Northern Germany. I'm sure Washington at some level had to be aware of this error on his part and led him to remorse I imagine. Anyways, the story is different but I was wondering how many parallels there will be, if there will be, in this episode to Washington's conundrum. I wanted to ask a question on the article page but couldn't concise it enough for wiki standards. I may ask on the scifi bboard but input on this would be appreciated before I do. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 19:42, 3 August 2006 (PST)
:That's an interesting analogy, showing a fine attention to historical detail. I think the parallel has minor flaws, though, since Washington's conduct in that matter isn't generally considered morally wrong so much as foolish. [[Wikipedia:Gavrilo Princip|Gavrilo Princip]] might be worth considering as a parallel; he was the immediate but not ultimate cause of a devastating war, and he precipitated the conflict by attacking his fellow countryman, thinking it justified in contrast to the general consensus. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:28, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

:: It's unlikely that Adama's actions are quite the transgression that he believes it to be; after all, the [[cylon agent|Cylons had been violating the armistice line]] for about a half a year prior to Adama's, anyway.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 02:09, 18 November 2006 (CST)

::: I was wondering about the timeline as well. I think Adama says somthing like, the mission was a year before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack]], but the cylons had been planning the attack for two years. However, I think there is an error in the timeline. Adama also says he served with Boomer for two years, and I think he implied that it was on Galactica. Gaeta also says that he served with Adama for three years. It is possible that Gaeta was on the Valkyrie for a year, but I think the mission happened about two years before the attack, not just one. I will rewatch the episode, but do you have any ideas? [[User:Jrmurph|Jrmurph]] 12:21, 18 November 2006 (EST)
:::: I think there is an inconsistency in the story. It is not unexplainable, ie Gaeta and Boomer served with Adama on the Valkyrie, but it did seem like nobody other than Adama or Tigh recognized Bulldog so the timeline is a little esquew. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:01, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Another Battlestar? ==
There is a spoiler image showing Adm Adama and Col Tigh in the CIC of the Battlestar Valkerie. I zoomed in on Adama and saw he had his Admiral's pins on. Might this be a sign that they soon will find yet another Battlestar? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:24, 15 November 2006 (CST)
: It's a flashback scene. It may be more of a costuming error. Note that Tigh still has his eye in that promo shot. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 01:39, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:: Right. Two eyed Tigh. Darn. I was hoping they'd find another Battlestar cause I do miss the Pegasus. It was bigger, much cooler and the doors made this cool "beep" when they opened. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:50, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::You can visit [[Valkyrie]] as well. It's a spoiler until Friday but you can adjust it with some new data later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::It's true, I saw the Admiral pips as well, the flashback should have been Commander pips; as the Stealth ship incident occurred three years ago. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 22:56, 17 November 2006 (CST)
: The Valkerie looked to be a Mercury class Battlestar. This would make sense because the galactica class was an older ship and has been all but replaced with the newer bigger and more efficent Mercury class.--[[User:Mike|Mike]] 09:30, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It's definately not a Mercury, the only part really similar is the engine block. If anything, it looked most like a reimagining of the original series battlestar, down to the rectangular opening in the flightpod and the angular head. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:47, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::Inside it looks like a Mercury yes. That's a sign of its age. But outside, it's far smaller than a full-sized battlestar. Look at the gun battery on the top. There's only one and almost covers the width of the ship there. See the Valkyrie page for more details (where this discussion should take place), but I think it's basically a smaller battlestar meant for support duties. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:52, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:: Not disagreeing with your main point, but its quite possible that there were far more Battlestar classes than just the "Cylon War Type" and the Mecurcy class, given that the colonies built up a fleet of arround 120 Battlestars over about 50 years, particularly as the Viper apparently went through 5 different itterations over this time, although we are likely never going to see the intervening versions of either type --[[User:Useless|Useless]] 09:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Barry Kennedy as Admiral Corman ==

Hey all, I was just checking on Barry Kennedy's link, and it links to an IMDB page other than his profile page detailing his filmography, and etc. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 23:52, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:That's because some people keep forgeting the "nm" when entering imdb numbers and in that case the link default to title instead of actor --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:53, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The Stealth-Star==
hey i just noticed this but the name of the ship was the stealth star so someone(not me)should create it a page. Best Snorkel378
:Already done [[Stealth Star]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:41, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The scene with Baltar, Six and Three in bed==
it says on there that 3 is having a sexual realationship with baltar and six?
Cylons arent lesbos i think they were having a 3some {{unsigned|Snorkel378}}
:You are assuming that the Six we see is Caprica-Six and not Baltar's internal Six. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 20:49, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It would be an odd choice cinematically to have Three wake up from a dream and show us something from inside Baltar's head. {{unsigned|Wldkt1}}
:::Please remembe rto sign your posts on talk pages guys <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:05, 19 November 2006 (CST)
The fact that Baltar and Six are in a 'clutch' position makes it unlikely that it's his internal Six. Three would have noticed Baltar trying to hug thin air in his sleep. Baltar is also in the center of the bed, rather than on one side. In addition, Caprica seems to be aware of (and approves) Three's new interest in Baltar. Regarding the possibility of a relationship between Three and Six: that is only speculation, but just because we haven't seen a lesbian relationship between cylons doesn't mean one isn't possible.[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 22:18, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:It could be that Caprica-Six sees this as a way to weaken Baltar--after all, the formula for getting Baltar to give up secrets seems pretty clear: get in his bed, get in his head, so to speak. Remember that during the torture in previous episodes, he said to Three, "I love you with all of my heart." That's what started the relationship, so I think Three is interested in Baltar for whatever reason, not necessarily Six. Plus, on a more humorous note...I have to wonder if the Cylons have any sexual relations amongst themselves at all. This could be one deprived Cylon... [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:24, 20 November 2006 (CST)
Speculation on Cylon sexual orientation aside, I think we all can agree that Baltar is one lucky sonofabitch. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:28, 21 November 2006 (CST)
:weell, if put aside the whole electro-shock thing and the drilling in the ear thing. Face it, Baltar had to work hard for that threesome.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 09:47, 21 November 2006 (CST)

==The Black Ops Mission==
Does anyone think that the entire mission was poorly concieved? First, the Colonials jump a Battlestar to very close range of the armistice line, which one would expect to attract attention in and of itself. Second, we see the ''Valkyrie'' track the S-Star after launch and over the line. This either means the Valkyrie tracked it directly on DRADIS, which indicates it's not much of a stealth ship and that the Cylons should be able to detect it as well, or the S-Star has some sort of transponder reporting its position, which is also something the Cylons should detect. Finally, as referenced in the main article, the S-Star maintains radio contact with the ''Valkyrie'' throughout the whole mission, again something the Cylons should be able to detect. Would the writers have really overlooked all this, or are we meant to conclude that the Admriality meant for the mission to have been discovered by the Cylons? --[[User:Cleophus|Cleophus]] 22:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:-The mission is quite similar to the United States' U2 overflights during the late 1950's and 60's. Certain similarities between the depicted incident and the [[:wikipedia:U-2 Crisis of 1960|incident involving Francis Gary Powers]] can be read. It also conjures up several dozen observation flights by aircraft such as specially outfitted C-130's flying perilously close to a boundary line — even going so far as to slip a wingtip across it to "call a bluff". Also, there's the incident involving the Chinese Gai-8 fighter and the US P-3 Orion.
:In the case of our Colonials here, the stealth craft is more than likely equipped with an "odd frequency" (either very low or very high), encrypted transponder that transmits on a specific wavelength, only for IFF purposes. If I recall correctly, F-117 Nighthawks can still use their radios when on ops (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I suspect that this mission was proposed in order to get a glimpse into ''any'' Cylon activity. The stealth craft would be dangled out as a tiny bit of bait – just enough to get a response. Its stealth characteristics would increase its ability to dash back across the Armistice Line untracked and unaffected, and then ''Valkyrie'' would be able to observe and record the arriving Cylons. If questions were raised ("What are you doing here?" ... "Good question, what are ''you'' doing here?" ... "We detected you over the Armistice Line." ... "Who, us? Noooo... We've been on our side this whole time, just trolling about, watching over our miners over there on that moon there. So why are you here again? You don't mind if we take some photos of you while you're here, do you?"), the Colonials would feign ignorance and innocence, but they'd at least have a response... something that the Cylons haven't even projected in thirty-plus years. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:--Is it possible that the Stealth Star was shot down by a Colonial Force in hopes that it would percipitate a conflict? Similar to the Gulf of Tonkin? This way the Colonials can say one of their ships got lost and was destroyed by the Cylons in cold blood (Or something along those lines). Also, it makes no sense a ship would jump in, shoot the S-Star, and jump out. Why wouldnt it commit to killin the S-Star? --[[User:Skrip00|Skrip00]] 16:31, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:: Perhaps. We don't know either way. To be honest, after some seriously critical thought about it on my part, there's really not much of it that makes sense, since it was poorly explained in the episode. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:55, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==Folks in White Robes==
Aren't there five white-robed figures in Number Three's vision? It's pretty speculative, but maybe these are meant to represent the five missing Cylon models (maybe they've undergone some kind of transcendence, and are "with God now" or something). Maybe the article should note this (after all, the white-robes show up for the first time just a couple episodes after we first learn that there's definitely something different or mysterious about the five missing models), though I don't know the proper section for it. {{unsigned|Steve}}

:- I noticed that too, but was going to "acquire" the episode and re-watch that part, or watch it again on Monday to see... I _think_ there are five humanoid figures in white robes, kneeling or seated in that semi-circle when Three walks amongst them. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:Three's in the opera house on Kobol where Baltar's internal Six shows him Hera's cradle; I believe those are the same white drapes that can be seen on the opera house stage in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 11:38, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::Well I agree she's in the opera house from KLG, but I don't think I'm referring to the drapes. In the initial shot of the opera house, there seem to be five glowing figures standing between the six white drapes. Some of the quick shots of the opera house that follow show these figures, and some do not (as though they are alternately hiding and revealing themselves). At the end of her experience, Three approaches and reaches out to one of these figures just before she is resurrected. --[[User:Steve|Steve]] 02:50, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== Reference to Raising Arizona? ==

I'm new here, so I didn't want to jump right into the thick of things by adding this to the main page before running it by other people...when Adama and Novacek are sitting down for the first time, Adama asks him something like "How did you escape, Bulldog?". Novacek rambles for a little bit (again, I don't remember exact words) but wraps up with "I felt the facility no longer had anything to offer me...". If I'm not mistaken, this is a reference to Raising Arizona--John Goodman's character says just about the exact same thing after he breaks out of prison. I can't seem to find the line on IMDB or Wikiquote, though... {{unsigned|MikeDanger}}
:Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:08, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:As far as I remember "Raising Arizona", the dialogue goes like this: 
:''- You busted outta jail?'' 
:''- No, ma'am. We released ourselves on our own recognizance.'' 
:''- What Evelle is tryin' to say is we felt the institution no longer had anything to offer us.'' -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:28, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== Insight into Cylon plan ==
If the Cylons know where the Colonials are, or at least know well enough to send Bulldog at them, it's common sense to ask, why don't they just attack? Well, maybe their goal isn't to destroy Galactica et al outright but something more complex. One thing that does seem consistent with their plan is their desire to kill Adama, perhaps because they want to send the fleet into disarray without him at the top. Examples: Leoben telling Roslin that Adama's a Cylon in Flesh and Blood, Boomer shooting Adama repeatedly in Kobol's Last Gleaming Pt. II. There may be more examples that I can't think of right now.

People have been crying out "plot hole!" with reckless abandon in light of Bulldog's ability to pinpoint Galactica's position, but if the Cylon plan really is as simple as ''kill all humans,'' as these detractors might claim, then much of the show falls apart. The reality is, we don't really know the Cylon plan, and at this point, there's really no reason to jump to the conclusion that the writers are just too lazy to think of one. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 18:22, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:The Cylons might know full well where the Colonials are but if they jumped in a couple of Basestars then the fleet would zip out of there pretty sharpish and might go somewhere where the Cylons dont know and they will have to find them all over again. IMO, their plan is a long game. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 19:17, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:IMHO, "Hero" is the weakest episode of the series yet. There's just too many logic errors for me to dismiss as part of the "suspension of disbelief" process. For instance, how does Bulldog have the time to learn how to pilot a Cylon raider, when Starbuck took hours to figure out how to operate the thing? Also, how would Bulldog be able to operate the FTL drive -- Kobol's Last Gleaming pretty much made it clear that the FTL drive needed an actual computer, given that the brain had to be ripped out in order for it to be piloted manually. But that's another not so fine mess.
: As for the Cylon plans, well, they're clearly compliated and seem to be changing since the attack. Whether or not this is by design has yet to be detrmined, though I sincerely doubt that the writer's have this thing all planned out a la ''Babylon 5''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:30, 19 November 2006 (CST)

::Yeah, I know what you're saying. I also doubt it's all planned out B5-style (hasn't Ron basically said something to that effect anyway, like how much they enjoy making it up as they go along?), but that doesn't mean it necessarily can't all add up in the end, and we should assume that they ''do'' know what they are doing until they are proven wrong.

::Also, a lot of people have been talking about how unrealistic it is for Bulldog to have learned how to operate the raider in such a short time. I'm not trying to start an arguement about this, but I don't actually remember them saying that he had only a short time to learn how to use the raider. Are you guys just assuming that he had to learn it all quickly based on the rushed nature of his escape? Is there a reason he couldn't have actually had a few hours to do it? I mean, if they let him escape, then he could have been in the basestar hangar for hours trying to work the controls while they watched (and snickered) from behind the glass. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 23:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:I agree that a lot of people have seemed predisposed to cry foul lately--I can understand how the scientific goofs in "A Measure of Salvation" could've set people on edge--but I do think it's possible that if the Cylons are operating under a religious motivation, that their plan does go beyond a simple "kill all humans" approach. They may see the need to exact specific steps of revenge/torture against humanity, perhaps a particular punishment for each perceived offense. That's just one possibility, but it could well be they have the death of a thousand cuts in mind for the remnants of humanity. I think Drumstick's probably on to something here. Or you know, if they wanted Bulldog to escape, they could have trained a Raider (which wasn't injured like Starbuck's) to understand and obey his commands or even set it up with an interface that a human could use. Until we see proof or disproof of all the different theories, I think it's too early to try to claim BsG has jumped the shark or anything similar. I also have to wonder if anybody here has writing experience with writing a full-length work. I am working on my first novel, and keeping total, perfect consistency is not easy and while I tend to get the big things right, I am still finding a lot of subtle things that need tweaking, and this despite my best efforts. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:17, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Possible Discontinuity ==
According to the episode, Adama and friends served on the Valkyrie a year before the attacks. This implies that Adama was only commander of the Galactica for a year before the miniseries. Yet on the Kara Thrace article, it states that Thrace "resigned from flight school as a instructor and transferred as an operational pilot aboard battlestar Galactica under the command of William Adama, where she served for some '''two years prior to the Cylon attack''' on the Twelve Colonies." They can't both be right.

Also, from the Tyrol article: "He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including Columbia, Atlantia, and Pegasus (Resistance). He has served under William Adama on Galactica for five years (Litmus)." If he served under Adama for 5 years, why didn't he mention the Valkyrie when he was being intimidated by Tigh in Resistance? This could be simply because Tigh would have known that.--[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 22:16, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:No, your first impulse is correct - it's quite certainly an error.
:'''Gaeta:''' And... may I take this opportunity to say that it's been both a pleasure and an honour to serve under you [Adama], these past three years. ([[Miniseries]])
:'''Adama:''' We [Thrace and I] talked about a lot of things. We've been aboard this ship for over two years, we know each other very well. ([[Act of Contrition]])
:'''Adama:''' She [Valerii] was more than that to us. She was more than that to me. She was a vital, living person... aboard my ship for almost two years. She couldn’t have been just a machine. Could you love a machine? ([[The Farm]])
:Also, note that the timeline in Adama's dossier (which seems to be accurate based on other data points) puts his transfer to ''Galactica'' at six years prior to the miniseries.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It is quite possible that this is not an error ''per se''. Adama and some of his command staff could easily have been assigned to the more modern Valkyrie from Galactica for the mission. It wouldn't make much sense to send "the bucket" on a stealth mission anyway. Notice Valkyrie seemed smaller and was probably more modernized, which would make it all the better for that type of mission. So Adama could easily have been in command of Galactica for several years prior, been offered command of Valkyrie as a reward, for career advancement or just for the mission... and have been pushed back to Galactica when the mission failed. Certainly the plan to decommission Galactica was in the works for some time, and they would not want one of their good commanders to retire with the ship... until after the mission where he failed. None of the characters would be expected to say "I served under Adama for some years, and some other guy for a couple of months, then Adama again." They would just say they served with him for X number of years. If we compare to the modern US Navy, this sort of thing is not all the uncommon.--[[User:Xealot|Xealot]] 10:22, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:::The dossier's progression from XO of ''Columbia'' to Commander of ''Valkyrie'' to Commander of ''Galactica'' seems to indicate that ''Valkyrie'' was his first battlestar command. Though I agree that the serve under "X years" would fly if they stayed under him. It's just the "this ship"'s that start biting them. (When they specify the ship instead of the command.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:53, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It's really embarassing in continuity. If they had put the entire affair a few years further into the past, it would have made much more sense not only in Adamas biography, but also in the overall plot. Boomer served on ''Galactica'' for two years and probably spend some additional time at flight school, so Adama must know the Cylon infiltration started long before the Stealth-Star incident. This should really get Adama to ask himself how long the attack had been planned, though he might convince himself that the Cylons put their infiltrators in place just as a precaution and his actions led to their decision to actually use them. A few years more time between the attack and the incident would put the estimated start of Cylon infiltration (which actually could be anywhere between 2 and 20 years before the attack) around the same time, giving Adama a far more powerful reason to believe that he started it right there. I would like to think that putting the incident one year before attack was just an accident, but then it would probably become even more difficult to explain how Bulldog survived that long.

::Another point that's problematic: did ''Valkyrie'' have an integrated computer-network? Up to this episode all information we had suggested that all battlestars save ''Galactica'' had them and that it was Adamas position of ''no network on my ship'' that prevented an upgrade.

::*If ''Valkyrie'' had a network Adamas politics of ''it's all hand on here'' are somewhat harder to believe. Up to now it looked like the position of a war-veteran who opposed networks on principle, this is harder to believe if he already commanded a ship with such a network.

::*If there was no network on ''Valkyrie'', then why wasn't there one? It appears extremely unlikely that the networks were all installed in the time between the incident and the attack, though the decision cannot have been made to long before Adama took command of ''Galactica'', because the previous commander would probably have had it installed. And given that it must have been a major decision to put networks on battlestars once more it's hard to believe that the Admirality would allow commanders to pull the plug on it as they see fit. I can imagine Adamas opposition being tolerated on ''Galactica'', because it was an old battlestar nearing it's decommissioning with a design that may have been especially hard to upgrade (regardless of Gaetas patchwork in [[Scattered]]). They could have simply decided that it was not worth the effort to force Adama to accept the upgrade. But that would be hard to believe for ''Valkyrie'', if you are sending a battlestar on such a sensitive mission you want it at maximum performance. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 14:49, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::The network thing isn't hugely problematic. We have no notion of how old ''Valkyrie'' was. ''Atlantia'' was at least 17 years old at the time of the attack (based on Adama's dossier), and was still worthy to serve as Nagala's flagship in the Miniseries. ''Galactica'' was even older. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:44, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== Cylon detector problems ==

There's some inconsistency with the "Cylon Detector" that Doc Cottle used to determine that Bulldog was a human. First of all, if you look at the screen caps, [http://galacticabbs.com/index.php?act=module&module=gallery&cmd=si&img=56612|like this one], you can see that the screen says "-RESULTS NEGATIVE-" If he was testing the DNA against their military records, it should say "-RESULTS POSITIVE-" If it's negative, the DNA doesn't match. That, or it's supposed to be a Cylon Detector, and it's saying that he's not a Cylon. It seems like it could be a simple goof between dialogue and props.

However, going along with the DNA reasoning... that doesn't necessarily prove anything, does it? If they tested Boomer's DNA against the DNA they have on record for her, I assume it's going to match, since they probably took Cylon DNA initially. Who's to say that the same thing didn't happen to Bulldog? In that case, his DNA would match, but he'd be a Cylon. Seems like a poor determiner of race, that's all. I don't think that he's necessarily a Cylon, just that this is another "oops."

--It might prove something...if the Colonials have DNA records going all the way back to a person's birth. If they're matching against that kind of original record (heck, maybe they even have the parents' records, too), then that may well constitute proof. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:06, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Moved content ==

Folks, stuff like this needs to be removed (or reworded) on sight. Right now, this document reads a bit like it's arguing with itself. Before adding content that seems to contradict itself, please discuss it on the talk page -- that's what this feature is for.

Below, here's what I've removed thus far from the article that contradicts itself. Stuff like this, ''again'', must be hashed out on talk pages before entering the main article space. Thank you. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:52, 20 November 2006 (CST)

=== Removed content ===

*[[Dualla]] apparently served on the Valkyrie; she can be seen in the background standing behind Adama and Tigh in the flashback scenes.
**That person in the scene is most likley not Dualla; it's not easy to see because the flashback-scenes in the CIC have (deliberatly) not the best quality.

Talk:Ellen Tigh/Archive 1

2006-11-20T21:10:28Z

Straycat0: /* Debate About Death */

Unless you intend to change all of [[Saul Tigh|the Colonel]]'s single-name references to "Saul", Ellen Tigh gets to be "Tigh" when we refer to her by a single name, just like every other character on the show. Note that [[Laura Roslin]] is usually Just referred to as "Roslin".

Since the article is about Ellen Tigh in particular, there should be no room for ambiguity. Lee Adama's article should also follow this principle - it's clearly out of line to refer to "women and children" on a first name basis when trying to disambiguate them from their husbands and parents. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:13, 13 Aug 2005 (EDT)

::While I understand the need for consistency, I'm not sure if a first name used for disambiguation is necessarily discriminatory. Military culture often puts people on a "last name basis", even in informal settings. When multiple of a same last name are present, there is usually some effort made to use a different name for the second person. First names, nicknames, or other substitutes are often found ("Big Spiegel or little Spiegel").

::Perusing a sampling of wikipedia articles, I found that most main articles do use the last name in one name references. However, I found that wives often end up with the first name (or a Mrs.)
::Examples:
::[[Wikipedia:Eleanor Roosevelt|Eleanor Roosevelt]]
::[[Wikipedia:Martha Washington|Martha Washington]]

::The way the characters in the show refer to each other seem to be consistent with this. I can't recall Ellen Tigh ever being referred to as simply "Tigh," nor Lee Adama being referred to only as "Adama." While both of them theoretically have just as much right to those names, an admittedly arbitrary social convention substitutes some other name. I'm not spoiling for a fight or anything, just scanned by the article and was getting confused whenever I saw "Tigh." I guess the instances where this is actually going to be an issue will be relatively small. (So maybe I shoud just deal with it.) [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:12, 29 November 2005 (EST)

:::Yeah, you should just deal with it, SV. :) Their argument for the use of Ellen's last name in her own page was sufficiently convincing, so I made the changes throughout the article except where sentence structure would have made it too confusing. I won't be as "nice" in other articles, since the Colonel, not Ellen, is a major character and most use of "Tigh" would presume him, not her. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:27, 30 November 2005 (EST)

::::An archive of the discussion is available [[Battlestar_Wiki_talk:Standards_and_Conventions/Archive01#Single-name_Address|here]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:33, 30 November 2005 (EST)

:::::While this seems to have been resolved and addressed on Tigh's page, Lee Adama's page seems to switch back and forth between Lee and Adama. In the "Reassignment" section he is referred to as "Adama", but in most other instances he is Lee (or Lee Adama). I think it reads fine the way it is (particularly in this "Adama" case), but I was curious if the principle should also be applied to that page as well (as suggested by the first post of this discussion). [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:53, 1 December 2005 (EST)

::::::It should. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:46, 1 December 2005 (EST)

== Lady Macbeth ==

The first thing I thought of after watching the episodes in which Ellen gets her husband drunk and pushes him into command was the parallel to Lady Macbeth. I broke out my copy of the ''Riverside Shakespeare'' and did some casual research to help prove the point and I have added it to the end of the character discussion as my first contribution to the wiki. I hope folks find it interesting and helpful. -- JT --[[User:Jasontondro|Jasontondro]] 23:33, 22 December 2005 (EST)

:RDM mentions this connection explicitly in his podcast for "Resistance". I'll try to dig up the relevant quote. Thank you for your insightful contribution, although I fear your middle paragraph meanders a bit. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:35, 23 December 2005 (EST)

::Yay! A bullseye on the first shot. Happy to help. --[[User:Jasontondro|Jasontondro]] 01:00, 23 December 2005 (EST)

::I like mentioning it, though I fear that it's length relative to the article may verge on becoming a "tale full of sound and fury, signifiying nothing", etc. Haha, just wanted to get a quote in; if no one has a problem with the length I don't mind either. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:09, 25 December 2005 (EST)

== Succession Box ==

I think it would be neat to create a "Spouse of the Executive Officer of the Battlestar Galactica" box. Does anyone agree? {{unsigned|Noneofyourbusiness}}
:Not really, no, as she'd be a one-woman entry (unless she gets killed off and COL Tigh marries someone else).--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 00:08, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
: Ditto. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 00:19, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
:: She wouldn't be a one-woman entry because she is succeeded by Sharon Agathon. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:51, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
::: Such a succession box serves no purpose. It's not like she's the First Lady of the United States, she's merely a wife of an executive officer. Being the wife of an XO isn't anything, either from a military or government standpoint. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 17:55, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
: I commented it on this? :-P --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:24, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
::Yes, you did. See? ^_^--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 00:27, 16 October 2006 (CDT)
::It was an act of precognition. By the way, chamalla is good with tea. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 01:30, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

== Season 3 Concision ==

As with many central and supporting characters, I have concised this article. I removed content that should be in the summary, questions and analysis of the episodes, as well as extraneous content that was not directly discussing the character.

Although the secondary sections after "Currently" don't appear in other bios, Tigh's character is such an enigma that these special sections are quite appropriate for the article, and were not concised. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:44, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

== Debate About Death ==

Now I agree that she is dead, but we been having a debate over here at my college about if she is truly dead or just knocked unconsuous. The agurement comes frome when Saul Tigh comes off the raptor. He says something that he left behind some, but so far I can see nothing that she's dead. I agree with the current updated status of the character template, but it should be left that we could see her again.... --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 21:48, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
: Just from the emotional resonance from the scene where she's put to death, it is clear that she was killed by poison. Also, Saul wouldn't have willingly left her behind had she been rendered merely unconscious. -- 00:06, 21 October 2006 (CDT)
: I have to disagree. Putting "emotional resonance" aside for a moment we see that every time that Saul has to talk about what happened he is evasive. Additionally, while he would understand that leaving her behind would in all probability consign her to death, it's not the same thing as poisoning her. But it would be very "emotionally resonant". In "Hero" the audio fades out just as Saul starts to actually talk about what happened, another hamfisted maneuver which leaves us unable to hear Saul say "I poisoned her", leaving us to assume it, possibly in error. --[[User:Frieze|Frieze]] 12:41, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:: Actually, in "[[Collaborators]]", Saul points out that he killed his own wife during [[The Circle]]'s deliberations. So, yes, she's dead. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 14:53, 20 November 2006 (CST)
::: OK, this isn't a comic book or typical sci-fi where somebody isn't dead unless they've been resurrected 7 times. This is REAL drama where when somebody dies, they're dead. And dead is dead. Welcome to the real world! The real story is in how Saul will have to handle killing his own wife for the rest of his life. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 15:10, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Hero

2006-11-20T16:40:12Z

Straycat0: /* Questions */ grammar

{{Episode Data
| title= Hero
| image= Season 3 - Promo - Hero -Adama Tigh and Novacek.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 8
| guests= [[Carl Lumbly]]
| writer= [[David Eick]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-17
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,421
| prev= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
| next= [[Unfinished Business]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A [[Bulldog|figure]] from [[William Adama|Adama]]'s past returns to haunt him. His return raises questions about why the Cylons launched their initial attack against the [[Twelve Colonies]]. <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/hero/episode/748771/summary.html |title=TV.com Episode Summary}}</ref>''
== Summary ==

=== On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' ===

* ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' detects three [[Cylon Raider|Raiders]]. Much to the surpise of the [[CIC]] crew, two Raiders are pursuing a third. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] are dispatched. After destroying the pursuing Raiders, they go after the third.
* In CIC, Adama orders Kat and Starbuck to escort the Raider to ''Galactica'', after hearing [[Bulldog]]'s communication squaks.
* Kat and Starbuck escort the Raider in. In the hangar bay, Adama and the party that meets the Raider, surprised at the fact that a human appears to have piloted the craft. A visibly weak Bulldog salutes Adama; Adama returns the salute.
* Over a meal (noodles eaten with chopsticks) Adama asks Bulldog how he escaped. He relates a story of plague on the [[Basestar]] and escaping after killing a Number 3 with a blow to the nose delivered through the cell bars.
* Bulldog is debriefed by the president with Adama present, where they tell a (decidedly shaky) story of a mining facility too close to the Armistice Line. When it is concluded she asks Adama if he is going to tell her what really happened. He replies that it is his mess and that he will deal it. After she leaves he kicks over a table in frustration.
* Bulldog goes to see Saul Tigh in his quarters shortly after Adama talks to him. Saul informs Bulldog that he was shot down by the ''Valkyrie'' to get rid of evidence.
*At the same time, Adama confesses the mission's actual specifics to Lee, and his belief that he provoked the Cylon attacks on the colonies. Aghast at first, Lee then tries to console his father, blaming the admirals in command and saying that he was "only one man." Adama responds, "It only takes one."
* Starbuck reviews the gun film from the fight with the Cylon Raiders and realizes that they were deliberately missing their target, letting Bulldog get away. She goes to Saul Tigh with this information, who deduces that Bulldog was sent there by the Cylons to kill the admiral.
* Tigh finds Bulldog in the process of killing Adama and stops him. Bulldog has flashbacks to being let out of his cell.
* Later, Adama presents his resignation to Roslin. Bemused, she refuses to accept it, and points out that the Admiralty may have been trying to provoke a war, and that he cannot shoulder the entire responsiblity for the holocaust on his shoulders. She then tells him that his penance will be to accept a Medal of Distinction for his long years of service, and to be a hero.
* After sending Bulldog off to a berthing on another ship with a uniform, Tigh and Adama sit down for a drink in the admiral's quarters.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*In a dream, [[Three]] is trying to avoid marines on ''[[Galactica]]''. The marines corner her against a hatch labelled End of Line. The marines raise their weapons and Three tells them to shoot.
*As the shots go off, Three wakes up in bed with [[Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]]. She has apparently been having a sexual relationship with Baltar and possibly Six as well.
*In the Cylon control room Caprica-Six questions Three about her bad dreams. Caprica asks if the dreams are about Baltar and Three tells her that it's nothing like that, but does not elaborate.
*Three gives a centurion orders to shoot her, and then delete any information regarding the incident. The centurion obeys and shoots her in the head. In the moments before she is downloaded, she experiences images from her dream mixed in with memories from New Caprica and other more cryptic scenes.
*Three awakes in a rebirthing chamber where a worried Caprica-Six tries to help her recover. Three tells her, "There's something beautiful, miraculous between life and death."

== Questions ==
*Were the Admiralty's fears valid, or was the Cylon force that destroyed the Colonies built up just since that mission?
*Did humans taken prisoner well before the Fall of the Twelve Colonies provide the original genetic pool for the humanoid Cylons?
*Did Bulldog know of or see other human prisoners during his three years of captivity?
*How was Bulldog directed to the precise location of the fleet?
*What class of battlestar does ''[[Valkyrie]]'' belong to?
*Why would a "Stealth Ship" in enemy territory break radio silence?
*Was ''[[Valkyrie]]''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s mission the only one the admiralty undertook or were there others?
*Was [[Laura Roslin]] right in speculating that the admiralty might have sent ''[[Valkyrie]]'' in order to provoke a war?
*Why did the Cylons have one craft jump in and fire on the stealth star, then jump out? Then send in two more ships to finish the attack? Could the first ship have really been a Colonial ship sent by the admiralty to expose the stealth star?
*Who were the white-robed figures [[Three]] saw in her vision before downloading?
*Were the Cylons on the baseship where Bulldog was held really sick?
*Does Bulldog have information regarding the other humanoid Cylon models that nothing is known of?
*How did Baltar's status change from torturee in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" to an apparent sexual relationship with [[Caprica Six]] and [[Number Three]]?
* Was Adama's whole command staff transferred from the ''[[Valkyrie]] ''to ''[[Galactica]]'' after the failure of the recon mission?
** Geata made a statement during the miniseries about serving with Adama for the prior three years.

== Analysis ==
*Adama and Roslin know each other well enough by now to tell when the other is lying, or is not fooled by a lie, even when others around can't.
*At the end of the episode, [[Saul Tigh]] appears to be attempting to try and deal with his guilt over his wife, but he does not seem to want his job as XO back, at least not any time soon.
*Adama's feelings of guilt over his actions during ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' mission seem to shed new light on the motivation for his speech at ''[[Galactica]]'s'' decomissioning ceremony at the begining of the series. Also, they explain his near-monomania with safeguarding and/or rescuing those under his command or protection.
*The Cylons seem to have been able to detect and destroy The Stealth-Star that had only entered two kilometers into their space. This seems suspicious given the fact that they were unable to detect the [[Blackbird]], presumably a far less sophisticated design. Either the Cylons had more advanced detection equipment on the [[Armistice Line]], or they had advance knowledge of Bulldog's mission.
**It is only speculation that the Blackbird's stealth capabilities were less effective than those of the Stealth-Star. The reason that the Blackbird went undetected by the Cylons is that its hull, at Helo's suggestion, was made of carbon composite. There is no way of knowing whether or not this was true of the Stealth-Star.
***In addition, the Cylons near the [[Armistice Line]] would have known to look for stealth ships, as they probably suspected that the Colonial fleet would try to gain intel on Cylon military status. After the destruction of the colonies, it is unlikely that the Cylons believed that the Colonials were still in possession of any kind of stealth fighter and would not attempt to detect one.
***The fact that the Cylons expected penetration by stealth ships suggests that they may have done their share of Armistice Line violation.
**Bulldog was communicating to the Valkyrie before being attacked. The Cylons may have been able to detect this radiation and fire at the source of it.
*Bulldog's story is even less believable given the fact that it took Kara Thrace several hours to gut a [[Raider]] and learn how to fly it. Granted, the Raider Kara captured was damaged, but it would still have taken Bulldog some time to adapt the raider for his own use.
**As the episode implies that Bulldog was deliberately released by the Cylons in an effort to direct his anger towards Adama, it is possible that the Cylons allowed Bulldog to gain a working knowledge of the raider.
*Bulldog probably could have stolen a Heavy Raider, which unlike the light versions seems to have a crew compartment and perhaps piloting controls, but then the production crew couldn't have re-used the captured-Raider prop from "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]" on the flight deck set.
*That Kara Thrace goes to Tigh with her findings is an acknowledgment of their shared semi-pariah status and the connection that was shown in "[[Collaborators]]" for the first time
*The last two scenes of "Hero" appear to have been edited to ensure that the final scene was with Adama and Tigh. Right after the celebration scene, Adama is seen giving Bulldog a new uniform, but Adama is wearing his everyday uniform. In the final scene with Tigh, Adama is wearing his dress grays from the celebration. It appears at the very least, the two scenes were in reverse order, meaning the episode originally ended with Adama giving Bulldog his new uniform.
*The architecture of the place Number Three visits between life and death is similar if not identical to that of the operahouse on Kobol which Baltar and his internal Six entered in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]".
*Three's flashbacks after being shot indicate her to be the same individual who was killed on Caprica by [[Caprica-Six]] in "[[Downloaded]]" and who found Hera in "[[Exodus, Part II]]". It is of course possible that some of these recollections are the result of memory-sharing rather than direct experience.
**If she is the same Three that died on Caprica, that leaves the question how it can be that she didn't get the Opera House experience on her first death, even though she was stuck in limbo for thirty-six hours because of the massive casualties at the cafe in [[Downloaded]]. It is plausible that this Three wanted to die because she'd never experienced death before.
***It is also plausible that God is only just now trying to tell her something.
*There's at least one other doctor of some kind in the fleet, because Cottle instructs Bulldog to report to him.
**This doctor is probably a psychotherapist that specializes in some sort of mental trama issues. Considering that Bulldog was in captivity for such a long time, and his breakdown while attacking Adama, at the very least, Bulldog will need a counselor to help him work through all of the emotional and mental scars that he's endured.
*The Cylons appear to know the current location of the fleet.

===Adama's Dossier===
Laura Roslin reviews a dossier prepared for her by Billy on her first day aboard ''Galactica''. It includes large photos of the battlestar ''Galactica'', a photograph of the CIC crew of the battlestar ''Valkyrie'', a (mostly illegible) certificate bearing Saul Tigh's name, and a cursory biography of William Adama, reproduced in full below:

<blockquote>'''Commander William Adama'''

<ul><li>Born H5/21290 and raised on the colony of Caprica, in Qualai, a small coastal community</li>
<li>Mother, Evelyn Adama, an accountant.</li>
<li>Father, Joseph Adama, a prominent attorney who specialized in criminal defese and civil liberties.</li></ul>

'''Military Service'''

D6/21311 First comission, Battlestar Galactica, fighter squadron 
E4/21312 Commendation for shooting down Cylon fighter in first combat mission. 
D5/21314 Mustered out of service post-armistice 
R6/21317 Served as Deck Hand in merchant fleet and as common […] aboard inter-colony tramp freighters 
D1/21331 Recomissioned to Fleet 
D6/21337 Major: Battlestar Atlantia 
R8/21341 Executive Officer: Battlestar Columbia 
C2/21345 Commander: Battlestar Valkyrie 
C2/21348 Commander: Battlestar Galactica</blockquote>

This provides us with some interesting information. The fields in the format X#/##### appear to be dates, with the five-digit string following the solidus apparently corresponding to the year. This corroborates various points of information supplied to us thus far:

* We learned in "[[The Hand of God]]" that Adama's father was named Joseph, and was a civil rights attorney. This was mentioned again in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]"
* We learned in a [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/202/deleted1.html scene] cut from "[[Valley of Darkness]]" that Adama joined the fleet toward the end of the war, and was attached to ''Galactica'' as a fighter pilot.
* We learned in "[[Act of Contrition]]" that Adama was serving on ''[[Atlantia]]'' during his thousandth landing, which indicates that he was still a flight officer at that time. Given his rank of Major, he was likely the [[CAG]] on Atlantia.
* The date of the Armistice is correct at 42 years before the present, as stated in the [[Miniseries]] and accounting for the passage of slightly over two years since that time.

We can also deduce some interesting new information:

* This episode marks the 45th anniversary of Adama's commissioning, which puts it in the year 21356, and makes Adama 66 years old.
* Adama spent three years in between being mustered out and finding a job on a tramp freighter. We may speculate that it was during this time that his relationship with first wife [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]] deteriorated.
* Adama spent a total of 14 years serving in the merchant fleet, a much longer time period than we had been led to believe.
* In "[[Torn]]", Adama told us that he and Tigh met 30 years ago. That would be 21326, which (correctly) puts it in the middle of Adama's merchant fleet service.
* We know that Adama was a major by the time he arranged for Tigh to be reinstated in the fleet ([[Scattered]]), which means that at least six years passed in between Adama's recomissioning and Tigh's.
* Ronald Moore [[Podcast:Scattered|told us]] that the flashback scenes in "[[Scattered]]" took place 20 years before that episode, or in 21334. In fact, they appear to span at least an eleven-year period between 21326 (Adama and Tigh's first meeting) to 21337 (Adama's promotion to Major)
* The first Colonial Day, marking the unification of the colonies, was probably in 21304. The one celebrated in "[[Colonial Day]]" was the 52nd, and it is now two years later.

If the five-digit string following the solidus is in fact the year, as seems inescapable based on the above, the letter-digit sequence before it must indicate the position in the year. There are 260 unique letter-digit sequences of that format, which may indicate a shorter year in the Colonial calendar (a year of twenty-six ten-day weeks?) However, our knowledge of Colonial timekeeping is too incomplete to draw any conclusions.
* Perhaps the letter and number are an abbreviation for just the month, not the day and month. This would also explain the coincidence of two of them being repeated (though there are other explanations).

It is astonishing to learn that the Colonials have (or believe they have) over 21,000 years of recorded history. By comparison, Pythia was said to have recorded her prophecies 3,600 years ago ([[The Hand of God]]) and the exodus from Kobol took place just 2,000 years ago. On earth, Human civilization is only about 6,000 years old.

Adama's resignation letter at the end of the episode appears to be dated in an entirely different format. It's difficult to read clearly, but it appears to be dated "27/89/9923".

== Notes ==
*In Adama's flashback, the admirals are wearing their decorations on their day uniforms. This contrasts with most Colonial Fleet officers shown thus far, who only wear their decorations on their dress uniform sash.

*Both Baltar and Sharon Agathon appear in this episode, but neither one has any lines.

*In Number Three's dream, the door at which she is shot by the marines is labeled "End of Line". As well as being a metaphor for death, this is a statement repeated often by the Cylon [[Hybrid]].

*This episode shares some plot elements with the TNG Episode "The Defector", written by RDM. Notably, it begins with a dramatic chase delivering a dubious ally into friendly hands that is later shown to be staged. Additionally, both episodes feature plots revolving around a contested border.

*[[Dualla]] apparently served on the Valkyrie; she can be seen in the background standing behind Adama and Tigh in the flashback scenes.
**That person in the scene is most likley not Dualla; it's not easy to see because the flashback-scenes in the CIC have (deliberatly) not the best quality.

*Admiral William Adama names Major Lee Adama to succeed him as commander of ''Galactica'' in his resignation letter.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
"There's something beautiful, miraculous between life and death." - Number 3 to Caprica Six

== Official Statements ==
*A video blog gives an insight to this episode during filming. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=videoBlog&vid=34824|title=Introducing Bulldog|date=2006-10-11|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=VID|language=}}</ref>

== Guest Stars ==
* [[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
*[[Carl Lumbly]] as Lt. [[Daniel Novacek]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[imdb:nm0447921|Barry Kennedy]] as Admiral [[Corman]]
* [[imdb:nm0461101|Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-19T00:01:04Z

Straycat0: /* Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) */

Talk:Valkyrie/Archive 1

2006-11-18T23:29:46Z

Straycat0: /* Class / Type / Dimensions */

Before anyone asks, here is the source: http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000pbh0a/g261 
See the seal in the background --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:59, 31 October 2006 (CST)
:Good Job Serenity!--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:38, 31 October 2006 (CST)
::I didn't create the article though :p --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:42, 31 October 2006 (CST)
:::Yeah, but you spotted the name on the seal. Well, whoever spotted it first, good job!--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:44, 31 October 2006 (CST)
::::Anyone else notice Tigh?--[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:47, 31 October 2006 (CST)
:::::You mean the eye? This is probably flashback scene. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:50, 31 October 2006 (CST)
::::::With Admiral pips?[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])18:52, 31 October 2006 (CST)
:::::::The description below says "'''Commander''' William Adama", as opposed to the next photo. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 18:56, 31 October 2006 (CST)
::::::::The rank differences clearly IDs the photo spot as a flashback. Look at the pips on the collar! What are the left collar pips verses the rank pips on the right? (Right-Left relative to the wearer) This is especially noticable on the Admiral Corman shot. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 19:02, 31 October 2006 (CST)

It's most likely a flashback. Maybe Adama and Tigh served on the Valkyrie and that's where [[Bulldog]] was under Adama's command. I can't really make out the rank pins. They look a bigger than Commander's insignia, but the picture quality isn't that good --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:09, 31 October 2006 (CST)

Another question, in 8 of 9 shot on that webpage, I am guessing its a flashback scene because Lee is wearing Captain's pips, but he also has a Battlestar Galactica badge on his shoulder. I thought he wasn't assigned to the Galactica prior to the miniseries? Is that the implication here or a clothing manfunction? hehe...--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 19:26, 31 October 2006 (CST)
:I read something that he might be demoted back to Captain. Not sure about it, but it makes sense. I guess they could keep him as Major or even Colonel, but there isn't really a job opening for a Commander at the moment.
:But looking at it more closely that might even be Major. Major and Captain look very similar, with Major having three chevron, the top one of which is directly on the diamond's edge --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:28, 31 October 2006 (CST)
::The original [[Jackson Spencer|CAG]] of Galactica that we see was a Major. Also, in the Miniseries, Apollo didn't wear a unit patch at all on his shoulder when he got to Galactica, pehaps since he was in the Reserves. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:21, 3 November 2006 (EST)
::In "[[Torn]]", the name plate on Lee's viper reads "Maj. Lee Adama". So I don't think he will be demoted any time soon. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:54, 10 November 2006 (CST)
I've deleted this line "both William Adama and Saul Tigh served on the Valkyrie" this is not canon, also many rumors going around are that Adama was involved in a covert operations against the cylons so he might have simply gone to the Valkyrie to be issued orders or debriefed etc, point is, we don't know. --[[user:lordmutt|lordmutt]] 19:13, 10 November 2006 (EST)
:There is a two-minute video out there, that pretty much confirms that Adama and Tigh were sent to ''Valkyrie'' for a special mission. Something about using a stealth ship to make a reconnaissance flight into Cylon space. The ship was flown by Novacek who was then captured by the Cylons. I also like that this shoots down the silly theories that the Blackbird was the Colonial's first stealth ship. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:52, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:: Concur. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:55, 10 November 2006 (CST)

== Class / Type / Dimensions ==
Now, for the time being, does ''Valkyrie'' go down as a ''Valkyrie''-type Battlestar (until someone at the "Head Office" finally tells us details like this)? I '''''especially''''' like how ''Galactica'', ''Pegasus'', and now ''Valkyrie'' are all different styles and sizes, but yet are still classified as ''battlestars''. This shows a degree of realism, creativity, and dynamicism among our intrepid Powers That Be — they're not going to pull the weak, canned trick of reusing the same model over and over and over again, ad nauseum. Also, ''hopefully'', it stomps on ''any'' musings amongst certain overzealous fans of such genres as Star Wars and Star Trek who have this bad habit of immediately speculating and squabbling over if a ship is a battleship, destroyer, frigate, etc. In this case, it would seem that, regardless of size and/or layout, a battlestar is a battlestar is a battlestar. End of line.

On that note, it would appear that ''Valkyrie'' is infact smaller than ''Galactica'', perhaps with reduced capabilities (weapons and embarked Vipers and Raptors quantities, etc.), less crew. It would also appear that she has less engines in her differently shaped array, which would make sense for a smaller, less massive starship.

Lastly, and unrelated to ''Valkyrie'' directly, that stealth recon craft was ''badass'', wasn't it? -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 23:49, 17 November 2006 (CST)

I'm not so sure that the Valkyrie is a less capable ship than the Galactica. From what Tigh said about Adama's "graceful retirement' it seems that the Valkyrie was actually a pretty prestigious command. I had always thought that commanding the Galactica was a great honor, but Tigh's words seem to indicate otherwise. Ships tend to get smaller as the technology progresses because of the reduced manpower requirement. Perhaps the smaller size of the Valkyrie is an indication of this. Theres no real numbers for the dimensions of the Valkyrie or anything to scale it to, but I also got the sense that it was smaller than the Pegasus or Galactica. --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 02:16, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:I disagree with that. A smaller ship is going to have less physical space to carry fighter craft and supplies. If ''Valkyrie'' is smaller than ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'', then its gun batteries are smaller, which means they're firing lighter shells, which translates into less penetration, smaller warheads, less damage. A smaller ship has less volume to absorb damage with, meaning less staying power in a battle.
:That doesn't mean it can't still be a prestigious command, though. If it were a very new ship, even if it weren't the most powerful, it would still be a plum assignment.--[[User:Grin Reaper|Grin Reaper]] 07:08, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::That's not always completely true. For example, the modern Arleigh Burke (DDG-51) class destroyer is about 500 feet long. It's replaced the 560 foot long Spruance and Kidd class destroyers and is also much more powerful than the old Long Beach (721 fl) and other old cruisers. It's almost as powerful as the other current surface warship, the Ticonderoga class cruiser, built on a Spruance hull. The only reason our modern carriers are so much larger than the old WWII bird farms, is that the planes are much larger now than they were back then. For instance, the lightweight F/A-18E Super Hornet is about 30,000lbs empty and 60 feet long. The old F6F Hellcat is 42 feet long and weighs under 10,000lbs. In conclusion, Valkryie, even smaller, could be much more powerful than the older Galactica. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:09, 18 November 2006 (CST)
:::But considering the timeframe, they aren't using radically different weapons and planes. Probably standard Mk VII Vipers or maybe MkVIs or whatever.
:::I think it's sort of like the escort carriers of WWII. Not usually meant to operate alone, but to give support to larger carriers, protect ships and support planetary operations. A support ship in Battlestar Groups that have a fullsized battlestar as main ship --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:24, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::::That reminds me of a point I forgot, the Mk II and Mk VII are of similar sizes, they can be launched from the same tubes and stored in the same parking spots on the hanger deck. I'm thinking the Valkyrie is like the USS Wasp which was a miniture Yorktown, a small light carrier that can operate with the fleet carriers. The only difference is that the Valkryie would be more advanced than Galactica, instead of old and ineffective like the Wasp. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:38, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::I find myself nodding in gleeful agreement to [[User:Talos|Talos]] and [[User:Serenity|Serenity's]] comments, but I must reply to [[User:Grin Reaper|Grin Reaper's]] first — you're using the "bigger is better" mentality, and this is one of the two issues that burns at the heart of the fight amongst Star Wars fans on the topic of warships (and classification thereof, but I'll mention that later). Bigger ''is not'' better. Better is better. Different is better. Just because ''Valkyrie'' is smaller (hypothetically speaking for the sake of example) doesn't mean she carries smaller weapons. From the recollection scenes alone, we can see that she has weaponry different, and in different locations, than ''Galactica''. The elder battlestar lumps her primary "turrets" dorsalside and ventralside, and has her "flak-guns" lining the midline and flight pods. ''Valkyrie'', by contrast, had turrets on the pods themselves, akin to ''Pegasus''. I don't want to chase specifics, but focus on the point that differences are ''good'' — they're human; they're to be expected; they're in realistic keeping.
::It could be said that, perhaps, ''Valkyrie'' was as Talos and Serenity say, a lighter, more purposeful version of a battlestar for an accompaniment or specialized role. Less mass would mean that she'd require less engines in her array, and perhaps have greater velocities/accelerations. She'd require less crew. While still operating the same craft as any other battlestar, she ''might'' have less of them. Who knows? The point is, she's different, but ''still a battlestar''.
::I bring in two examples from history: the case of the HMS ''Hood'' (ca. 1940) and the battleships of the US Navy during WWII. In ''Hood's'' story, she was, when WWII rolled around, the largest, longest warship in the British Navy, and was 262m long at 48,000 tonnes full load. By contrast, the ''Queen Elizabeth''-class battleships were 197m at 33,000 tonnes. Both ships carried the same 15-in gun. Then, we throw in another WWII-era battleship, the ''King George V''-class, which was 227m at 42,000 tonnes — but sported 14-in guns because the Admiralty, at the time, felt that a more quantitive broadside (10 over 8 or 9) would be more effective than the larger 15-in guns. I'm not going to get into a running argument over details, but bring this up to point out that all three were battleships (''Hood'' was termed a ''battlecruiser'', but the point stands), built by the ''same country'' in roughly a short period of time (within approximately 30 years), and all were used under similar circumstances, to varying success and failure. Similarly, the United States had their "holdover" dreadnaught-style battleships at the opening of WWII, but then churned out the ''New Mexico''-class, the ''South Dakota''-class, ''North Carolina''-class, and ''Iowa''-class. Each was indeed a battleship, but definitely different in terms of size, traits, and capabilities.
::Yes, I may be getting a bit long-winded for such a trivial subject, but I can't express enough how ''different'' this great series is from Star Trek and Star Wars. Until proven otherwise, there aren't any carriers, battleships, cruisers, frigates, destroyers, corvettes, torpedo boats, etc. — there are ''battlestars'', and a battlestar is a battlestar is a battlestar, albeit in different shapes, forms, and sizes. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:26, 18 November 2006 (CST)
:::I'm thinking that it's just a smaller battlestar, fulfilling a similar role as the Mercuries and such on smaller displacement. Many realword navies are always attempting to do this. For example, before the Burke was finalized, various lightweight versions, sacrificing engines or Aegis, or other equipment, were designed. All of them tried to mimize displacement.The Treaty-era ships from the 1920-30's aren't the best examples to use here because they had an artificial limit imposed on them by the Washington and London Naval Treaties. Frequently, improved technology requires lesser manpower. The reason ships keep getting bigger historically is that they keep adding new technology, for instance, the cause of the massive destroyer size increase after WWII is mostly due to the inclusion of Weapon Alfa, guided missiles, and a huge increase in carried electronics. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:27, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::::OK, let's not make too big a deal about the size. Here's a comparison of sizes of post-WWII aircraft carrier classess that I put together from wikipedia.org organized by when they were built:
CVL-48 Saipan class - 2 ships
14,500 tons

CVA-58 United States class - 1 ship
83,350 tons full, 68,000 tons standard

CV-59 Forrestal class - 4 ships
56,300 tons

CV-63 Kitty Hawk class - 3 ships
60,000 tons, 82,200 tons full load

CVN-65 Enterprise class - 1 ship
approx. 93,500 tons full load

CV-67 John F. Kennedy class - 1 ship
60728 tons light, 82655 tons full

CVN-68 Nimitz class - 9 ships
101,000 to 104,000 tons full load

CVN-78 21st Century Aircraft Carrier Project
100,000 tons

If we equate Galactica, an older ship, to the USS United States and the Valkyrie to Forrestal Class and Pegasus to a Nimitz class, then Galactica would be clearly larger than the Valkyrie and Pegasus would clearly be much larger than both. In the US Navy today, all these carriers have the exact same function, but vary in size by design and time. However, they are all aircraft carriers. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 17:29, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Number / Designation? ==
Am I seeing this right? From the capture, it looks like '''BSG 41''' on the seal. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:47, 18 November 2006 (CST)

Talk:Valkyrie/Archive 1

2006-11-01T01:26:17Z

Straycat0:

Talk:Valkyrie/Archive 1

2006-11-01T01:07:40Z

Straycat0:

Talk:Valkyrie/Archive 1

2006-11-01T01:02:49Z

Straycat0:

Talk:Valkyrie/Archive 1

2006-11-01T00:44:48Z

Straycat0:

Talk:Valkyrie/Archive 1

2006-11-01T00:38:39Z

Straycat0:

Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques

2006-10-31T14:33:22Z

Straycat0: /* Why weren't more Colonial factions visible on New Caprica? */

{{project|Official Communique's|image=BSG WIKI Official CrewCast.png|shortcut=BW:OC}}

Members of '''''Battlestar Wiki''''': This page is to coordinate all questions to any official members of the cast or crew of "[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]]." Please sign your question after you are done. The "summary" of the question should be be first, if any, and then the questions, in short form, should be placed at the bottom. This is to not confuse people and to keep the quetions distinctive.

Cast/Crew: These are questions we are seeking from you. If you have the time, please answer them as best you can. We will move these questions/answers to the correct page once they have been done. You can also check out ''[[:md:Category:Seeking Official Information|Category:Seeking Official Information]]'' for larger items - particularly pictures.

All questions which have been previously answered can be found on the archive pages. Questions get moved to the archives once items and questions seeming from the issue have stopped.

<div align="center">
{| class="toc plainlinks" summary="Notice"
|-
| [[Image:BSG WIKI Caution.png]]
| [[Bradley Thompson]] is very busy. Time to answer questions might be a while.
|}
</div>

{{ArchiveTOC}}

{{Newsection link}}

__TOC__

== Who's the Mop Guy? ==

Hi there. We have a humorous article dedicated to our administrators: [[Mop Boy]]. We have a screencap of a ''Galactica'' crewman who is mopping the floor in the documentary of "[[Final Cut]]" (which, metaphorically, is what admins do). Did that character have a name? If not, can you give him an unofficial one? "The Unknown Mopper" is the administrator's patron saint. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:40, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

::I'll ask Mark to give him a name when I get back to LA - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:56, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

== Hamish "Skulls" McCall ==
Hello Mr. Bradley, is there a rank available for Hamish "Skulls" McCall? Is he Ensign, Lieutenant JG, or Lieutenant? I imagine that he's not anything higher. Also, is he Racetrack's ECO or Co-Pilot? Somebody was calling him a co-pilot and I didn't know if maybe he was a converted Raptor pilot because of ECO shortages or something like that but I figured I'd ask. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 23:12, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

::Hi, Straycat. I have no official rank on Skulls -- you'll have to look at his pips. Skulls is currently an ECO, but all ECO's are cross-trained with piloting skills. Attrition has forced some (such as Racetrack and Helo) to assume pilot in command duties more than once. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:21, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

== Apollo's pilot wings ==

Is there a particular reason why Apollo is wearing junior wings in Season 3 while he's wearing senior wings in "The Captain's Hand" (I think) and LDYB? Personally I prefer that the wings signify actual piloting experience and aren't just awarded together with becoming Major or Colonel. But aside from it being a possible error, there might be some in-universe reason for the change. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:06, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

::Lee's promotion to Major in Captain's Hand brought with it the senior pilot rank badges, as he started out as a pilot and the skill level that got him the Major's rank also warranted the new wings. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:24, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

:::So why did he lose them in Season 3 then? Other senior officers still have theirs despite not being active pilots anymore. Like Cain, Adama or Tigh --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:29, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

::::Good question. You'll have to scare up somebody in costume to track that. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 18:19, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

== Colonial Calendar ==

In Precipice when Baltar is singning the death varent. There is clearly seen '''SIGNED THIS SECOND DAY OF 3454-91''' over his signature.

Does it mean '''Tuesday (second day), 91st day of year 3454 after The Exodus from Kobol?'''

[http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/6017/bscap0000uo3.jpg Screencap] --[[User:Deus|Deus]] 14:17, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

: It all depends on when the week starts. A week can start on either Sunday or Monday -- and there has been absolutely no evidence that they use those names to denote days of a week. There are also too many variables to determine whether or not it has been 3454 years since The Exodus from Kobol. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:01, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

:: Well, that's why am I asking Mr. Thmpson. "91" can also mean 91st week of year... --[[User:Deus|Deus]] 15:14, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

::: 91st week of the year? This doesn't compute, given it's been pretty much established repeatedly that the Colonial time or calendar is really no different than the Gregorian calendar or the 24-hour system we use on this spec of dust. :-) For comparison, there are only 52 weeks in a standard Earth year. Also, it has been previously established that the exodus occured 2,000 years ago; so the Exodus is discounted as being "Year 1" in the Colonial calendar. However, any answers that Mr. Thompson can provide in this regard would doubtless be appreciated. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:52, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

:Interesting find. Maybe it's some weird Cylon way of timekeeping --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:54, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

::::For that matter, is Mars Day a holiday or a day of the week? The days of the week on Earth are named after gods, Norse gods in English and Roman gods in Italic languages. ex. English: Tuesday, named for the Norse war god Tyr; French: Mardi, named for the Roman war god Mars. English: Friday, named for the Norse love goddess Freya; French: Vendredi, named for the Roman love goddess Venus. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:37, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

== Scriptural Reference ==
Mr. Bradley, was it intended that Colonel Tigh was making a scriptural reference to the colonial scriptures when he said: "Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the garden of paradise sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. Surprised you didn't know that." This feels and sounds very like he is refering to some 'Colonial Bible' and the expressions on Tyrol's and Anders' faces give me that sense? Was that the intent from the writers room with that saying? Gotta say that I loved some of the dialog in Occuprice and can't wait till it comes out on iTunes.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:24, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

::I haven't read all of Colonial scripture, so I can't really speak to that. But it wouldn't surprise me if Saul Tigh did read the scriptures at some point in his life. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 23:16, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

== We know what the cast looks like.. ==

But we have very few pictures of the [[:Category:Crew|Crew]]. Any chance you can round up a digital camera and do a group and individual photos? :-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:24, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
:: Nope. I already got a message from TPTB that there will be no unofficial photos coming from this source. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:27, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
::: TPTB? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:15, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
:::: The Powers that Be. I imagine its more or less for privacy and confidentiality reasons. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 23:22, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
::::: Roger. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:25, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
:We have a few crew pictures, but I can't ID them. [[:md:Category:Seeking Official Information]]
::Left Image - In the center is Supervising Producer Harvey Frand, who works miracles in Vancouver by making the impossible happen regularly for miniscule budgets. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:38, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
::Center Image - The guy on the left is VFX Supervisor Gary Hutzel, Master of Visual FX. Without him, the ships don't fly, the nukes don't explode. Much of what you love about this show comes out of his brain. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:38, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
::Right Image - is Harvey Frand, whom you met on the left. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:40, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
<gallery>
Image:David Erik, RDM, and Unkown.jpg|I have no clue. David is one the left, RDM on the right, and Center...well is the Question :)
Image:Edward James Olmos and Unkown.jpg|Dir. of Photography?
Image:Unkown2.jpg|I still have no clue.
</gallery>

== Erica Cerra back [[Exodus, Part I]]? ==

Is she back just for these few episodes or was this another actress or a standin? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:09, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

::It's her. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:54, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

== Gunnery Sgt Mathias ==

Hi, I was directed to ask these questions here; they were initially posed at the "[[Exodus, Part I]]" [[Talk:Exodus, Part I#Gunnery Sgt Mathias|talk page]].

1. First off, is she one of ''Pegasus''' onboard company? She doesn't look familiar to ''Galactica'', and [[Hadrian]]'s reputedly the seniormost Marine onboard the latter ship. My guess is the former rather than the latter, but it's never stated.
::We often don't state things until there's a compelling reason to state them, such as where Mathias came from or what her story is. It may play into future episodes, but until then, we keep you guessing. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:45, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

2. This one ties into 1: considering the above, why is she so (relatively) friendly with Sharon? There might be some leeway if she stood Brig duty and got to know Sharon, but then that would prove contrary to the Hadrian issue, not to mention that it's highly unlikely someone as senior as a Gunnery Sgt would be standing brig duty. OTOH, if she's a Marine from ''Pegasus'', she obviously should have a marked level of disgust about taking orders from a "skinjob". Granted, military professionalism and bearing might play a role in overriding that disgust, but Sharon's nature as a Cylon can't be denied, regardless of what side she's on. Additionally, she may have been posted to brig watch while Sharon was in ''Pegasus''' brig, but again, there's the rank vs. watchstanding issue.

::See what fun you're having? It's been said in drama that one good question is better than a dozen good answers. But you don't make gunnery sergeant without learning to obey the rank, not the person. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:45, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Just a few thoughts that came to mind. Thanks for your time.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 00:30, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

::You're most welcome. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:59, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

== New episode names ==
Hello Mr. Thompson, we have a couple more "working titles" if you'd care to confirm them as such: Episode 15/16 - Dirty Hands, Episode 16/17 - Maelstrom. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 22:41, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

::So far, "Dirty Hands" is the title of Episode 15. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:46, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

:::BTW, "Download City" is Seelix's slang for wherever Cylons go to get resurrected. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 22:51, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

::::Darn. Oh well.. i liked the idea of a city. lol. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:14, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

== Episode Numbering ==
Mr. Thompson, you are counting "Dirty Hands" as the title of episode 15. This means that Occupation and Precipice are the same episode. But Ron in his podcast calls them episodes 3.01 and 3.02 which would make "Dirty Hands" episode 16. What do you guys consider "Occupation/Precipice", a.k.a. "Occuprice", Episodes 1 and 2, Episodes 1 and 1.5 or just episode 1? And then Exodus, Part I is then episode 2 or episode 3? --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 15:04, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
: Given [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques/Archive05|this original list that Mr. Thompson provided]], he's counting "Occupation" and "Precipice" as episode 1.0 and 1.5 respetively. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:15, 20 October 2006 (CDT)
:: Just to add further clarity, like Joe said the production staff is using the 1.0 and 1.5, and everyone else is not (I think). It was easier for the wiki to go with Precipice as 2.0, because it matches the info at scifi.com and the podcasts. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:19, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

== Why weren't more Colonial factions visible on New Caprica? ==

Over 2 seasons, you've shown us that Colonials aren't the same.
They have different cultures, and internal conflicts.

Going into season 3, I expected to see sharp differences within New-Caprican society:
Different strategies, power-plays, and sophisticated reactions to the Cylon presence.
Instead, we only saw things through the prism of the Tigh-Vs-Baltar conflict.

The popularily-elected Quorum members were nowhere to be seen.
Zarek was completely sidelined.
The religous establishment was hardly seen.
The 'peace movement', who believed in Six's 'unity' platform were unseen/unheard of.
''ETC.''

'''What prevented the writers from playing up inter-Colonial differences?'''

--[[User:Ashoka|Ashoka]] 03:30, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

: I'm going to guess lack of screen time. It can probably be assumed that the extremist colonial groups fell into the respective resist/collaborate camps, with a lot of messiness in the intervening months. The relative quiet of the Cylons' "crap, this isn't working" camp and the ascendency of the "see, told you it wouldn't" camp has many RL examples. --[[User:PrePressChris|PrePressChris]] 18:47, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
::I agree that there wasn't time, unless you wanted to run four more eps on New Caprica. As for [[Gina]]'s "[[Demand Peace]]" movement, it seems that the bulk, if not all, went up in the radioactive boom along with ''Cloud 9''.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 21:58, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

'''If what you guys say is correct, then doesn't this kill the tapestry of the Colonials?'''
Before this 'occupation' storyline, Roslin faced convincing challenges from the above elements. But now, she's a war hero who won the day. While the others were MIA, or talentless. Who can convincingly mount dissent in Colonial society now? ''Perhaps if they had implied that the quorum was in hiding; that the Geminese held protests; or that the prisoners rioted (ala Bastille Day);..it would maintain that Roslin wasn't the only Colonial leader fighting.'' So I'm wondering if the writers actively wanted to end the internal Colonial conflicts. Unify the fleet, in order to go after Cylons?
--[[User:Ashoka|Ashoka]] 00:09, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

== Shaver ==

A few of us at my college, where I go to the BSG parties, are wondering if we can get real working replica of Adama's shaver. Any one we should contact? ;-) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 03:26, 22 October 2006 (CDT)
:Thats the most odd request for a replica prop i've ever heard :D --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:11, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
:::We avoid passing on that information as it may be construed as a plug for a product. You used to be able to get them from the big discount houses on Picon. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 18:49, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

== Pegasus starboard flight pod ==

In Exodus part 2, when Pegasus comes to Galactica's rescue and flies past the camera firing, a main battery turret can be seen firing from the foreward dorsal surface of the starboard flight-pod. However, there is no corresponding battery on the port flight pod, nor are there any signs of this weapon later, when the starboard pod is seen drifting after Pegasus' death ride into the base-ship. I've also been unable to locate it on any of the other images of the starboard flight-pod I've been able to find. Is the turret an FX goof, or are the flight pods' armaments asymetrical?--[[User:Grin Reaper|Grin Reaper]] 03:56, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
: There are turrets on the ''Pegasus'' flight pods. They can be seen in "[[The Captain's Hand]]"... I can grab a few screenshots, which I'll add to the ''Pegasus'' article later. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:56, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
: Here's an image from "Captain's Hand": [[:Image:Pegasus flight pod turret.jpg]]. Is this what you're referring to, Grin Reaper? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 17:43, 23 October 2006 (CDT)
::Negative. I know about those turrets. The one I'm talking about it on the ''top'' of the hangar, not underneath it, and on the leading edge of the flight-pod. [http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2750/pegasus02pv0.jpg here] is a good shot. You can see it firing there, and it looks like it's just about in line with the first spar, but in the [http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/6585/pegasus05sa6.jpg shot] of the drifting pod, it isn't there, and there's definately no corresponding weapon on the port pod. {{unsigned|Grin Reaper}}
:Wouldn't the assumption be that it was blown/shorn off sometime before/during the destruction of the Pegasus? --[[User:PrePressChris|PrePressChris]] 08:03, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
::I considered that. However, I couldn't see any wreckage or broken plating around where the battery would be on the starboard pod and there is literally ''no'' sign whatsoever of a battery in the same place on the port pod, either in this episode, or any others. Hence the reason I'm asking for clarification here.--[[User:Grin Reaper|Grin Reaper]] 18:07, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

==Charlie Connor / Another name clarification==
The IMDB currently lists [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0730455/ Ryan Robbins] as the character ''Charlie Connor''. Now we know that his last name is [[Connor]] but I was wondering if his first name was fanon (anyone can edit the imdb) or if its actually taken from an official source? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 18:30, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

::Connor is listed in the Cast section of the script of Collaborators with his given name, Charlie. - [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] 18:47, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Cheers much :D --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 13:10, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

== Guest stars in Exodus, Part 2 ==

I was curious about the names of some actors in the episode that weren't credited:

--The Viper pilot with the call sign of Red Wing. Hot Dog talks to him over the wireless as they launch off Galactica over New Caprica.

--The actor who played Kacey's real mother. There is no character name given either. She found Kacey toward the end of the episode just as Kara was about to introduce Kacey as her own daughter.

--The baby who portrayed Hera/Isis.

Any information would be much appreciated. Thanks. -- [[User:123home123|123home123]] 01:41, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

== Chadwick in "Collaborators" ==

We only saw the character Chadwick in a photo as the Circle debated her fate near the halfway point of the "Collaborators" episode. I was wondering who the actor is. Is the person an actor or is it a friend or relative of one of the production staff? I find these little tidbits interesting. Thanks for any answers on this. -- [[User:123home123|123home123]] 23:31, 30 October 2006 (CST)

Collaborators

2006-10-31T04:34:14Z

Straycat0: /* Notes */

{{Episode Data
| title= Collaborators
| image=JammerCollaborators.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 5
| guests=
| writer= [[Mark Verheiden]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production= 305
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-10-27
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,435
| prev= [[Exodus, Part II]]
| next= [[Torn]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[The Circle]], a secret tribunal on ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', decides the fate of [[James Lyman|Jammer]] and other Colonials who aided the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] during the occupation of [[New Caprica]].

== Summary ==
=== On ''[[Galactica]]'' ===
* [[James Lyman]] (Jammer) is brought before [[The Circle]]. He is found guilty of treason, the punishment for which is death. Despite his pleas and an attempt to convince [[Galen Tyrol]] to spare him, for Lyman freed [[Cally Tyrol]] from the Cylon death squad ([[Precipice]]), The Circle carries out Lyman's punishment and ejects him from ''Galactica'' by depressurizing the [[launch tubes|launch tube]] where he is held.
* After Lyman's execution, Tyrol talks to his wife about how she escaped. While she claims to not have thought about the incident since, Cally Tyrol tells him that she thinks one "[[New Caprica Police|of those goons]]" set her free.
* On ''[[Colonial One]]'', [[Laura Roslin]] asks [[Tom Zarek]] of his plans as the new President. Zarek plans to reconvene the Quorum of Twelve, put Roslin's name in for nomination to vice president and then step down, returning the presidency to her. Roslin assumes that this act requires something in return for Zarek, who he asks not be left on the outside of government affairs. For his actions in standing up to Gaius Baltar on New Caprica, she promises him the Vice Presidency.
* [[Felix Gaeta]] enters the still-damaged [[CIC]] to help with repairs to communication. [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] sees him and vocally demands for him to leave, accusing him of being a collaborator. [[Helo]] tells Tigh that Gaeta is there on the Admiral's orders, but Tigh continues to protest loudly until Admiral Adama appears. The admiral takes him out of the room to talk to him about resting so he will be ready, something that Tigh thinks he doesn't need.
* The Circle reconvenes, now under a three-day time limit to dole out justice. As they run through the cases, they eventually they come to the file on Gaeta, with four of the members voting guilty. Anders refuses to vote and leaves the Circle, tired of the continuous killing he has done. Chief Tyrol refuses to vote if they do not have a sixth member as required for the Circle.
* In the mess hall, Gaeta is treated as ''[[Wikipedia:Persona non grata|persona non grata]]'', eating alone until [[Kara Thrace]] sits at his table. She talks, kindly at first, then insults him for his supposed cowardice. Gaeta counters by bringing up his status as the informant, mentioning the dog dish being flipped over as his signal to the resistance.
* Lee and Bill Adama talking about the status of the fleet. Lee Adama brings up the fact that over the past few days, 13 people have mysteriously disappeared, after being confirmed as survivors of the Exodus. As he leaves he reveals that has lost "[[Wikipedia:Stone (weight)|half a stone]]" in weight. Bill tells him to keep jumping rope.
* The Circle brings in Kara Thrace as the replacement vote of the jury. All vote guilty on Gaeta, except for Tyrol once more. Anders comes in and requests time to talk with his wife. The scene splits, with the other members of the Circle trying to convince Tyrol of Gaeta's guilt, and Anders trying to explain that what the Circle does isn't justice. Thrace rebuffs him, her pain from incarceration lashing at anyone, even her husband. Thrace tells Anders that they must separate. The Chief eventually folds and votes guilty.
* Gaeta is captured and brought to a launch tube, told that this is an official trial under authority from the President of the Colonies, and that if he has anything to say to explain himself he should say it now. Gaeta replies that he has already told his story and refuses to beg. Kara Thrace's anger lashes out at Gaeta, telling him to beg, while taunting him with the idea that he was an informant for the insurgency, and mentioning the [[Jake (New Caprica)|dog bowl]]. When the Chief hears this, he reveals that Gaeta could not know about the signal unless he was the one leaving the dead drops, then he releases Gaeta from his bonds. The other members of the Circle realize Gaeta's innocence, that he was in fact the secret source inside the Baltar Adminstration. Colonel Tigh stands speechless in the revelation, confused between his own certainty and the facts before him.
* Laura Roslin is re-inaugurated as the President of the Twelve Colonies, and issues a decree of amnesty against all alleged collaborators, after it is privately revealed that Zarek authorized the trials and sentences conducted by the Circle in an attempt to protect Roslin from having to deal with months of public trials which could destroy the unity of the Fleet through highly publicized "witch hunts." In place of the trials, Roslin announces a commission on "truth and reconciliation", to record the history of the occupation for posterity.
* Still outcast, Gaeta is reinstated in the Colonial Fleet as an officer. In the mess hall, Chief Tyrol sits with Gaeta. Both eat in silence as the other crew members are taken aback by the act.

===On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]===
* [[Gaius Baltar]] seems to be on ''Colonial One'', sitting in a chair in front of Tigh, Roslin, and Admiral Adama as they talk about how there was little he could do with the situation he had on New Caprica.
* As the group forgives him, the [[Cylon-Related Hallucinations|virtual Six]] appears and claims the group is too lenient. Admiral Adama actually seems to hear her. Laura Roslin begins to tell Baltar how much she wants him in a provocative manner when Baltar realizes he is dreaming, waking up as Roslin kisses him.
*Baltar finds himself naked on a red [[Wikipedia:Chaise longue|chaise longue]] inside an unrecognizable room. When a [[Cylon Centurion]] guard appears at the doorway, Baltar realizes that he is imprisoned in the room with only a robe to wear. The scene turns to outer space where we see several Cylon basestars surrounding a [[Resurrection Ship]].
* A [[Number Three]] visits Baltar. She tells him that 3 days have elapsed since his arrival, and offers him a bottle of pills. She tells him that his presence on the basestar has caused a conflict between seven of the models. With three voting for him to be allowed to remain, while three vote for him to be removed. The only model that hasn't come to a consensus are the Sixes.
* [[Caprica Six]] visits Baltar and explains how wrong she was to let her feelings get in the way of her duties as a Cylon. Baltar tries to convince Six that she is more then just a Cylon and that she loves him. As she walks out he belatedly tells her that he needs her as well.
*Later, Baltar awakens to find Caprica-Six setting his clothes in his room.

== Questions ==
* Will there be an illegal organization in the Fleet that will continue where [[The Circle]] left off?
* Since Tigh has been reinstated into the Colonial Fleet, where does this leave Galactica's chain of command? Specifically, what are the roles of Tigh, Helo, and [[Aaron Kelly|Kelly]] now?
* What of [[Lee Adama]], [[Anastasia Dualla]] and other officers of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''? How will these redundacies be dealt with?
* Given that there are civilians aboard ''Galactica'' from the Second Exodus, and previous sabotage events that plagued ''Galactica'' prior to colonization of New Caprica, are they restricted to certain areas?
* Has [[Samuel Anders]] become a member of ''Galactica's'' crew, or is he only allowed on board because of his relationship with Thrace?
* Will any of The Circle's members or Zarek face charges, or will they be pardoned by Roslin's government for what they had done?
* Now that the Cylons seem to have accepted Gaius Baltar, at least begrudgingly, what will happen to him?
* What happened to those who were left behind on [[New Caprica]]?
* Which Cylon models are in favor of allowing Baltar to stay with them (besides Three, who proposed it in the first place) and which are not in favor?
* Does Caprica-Six setting Baltar's clothes on his bed indicate that the Cylons have chosen to allow him to remain?
* What became of Zarek's deal with Roslin to become Vice-President after his order authorizing the Circle came to light? Did he become Vice-President, or is he back on the outside?
* How could [[The Circle]] operate in ''Galactica's'' launch tubes without William Adama's notice?
** Or, for that matter, the notice of anyone on the usually-busy hangar decks?
** Perhaps it was a launch tube in the unused flightpod?
* Did the General Amnesty apply to Baltar?
* Are there going to be new laws outlining rules of contact with the enemy for the future?
* Isn't it becoming obvious that the survivors now need a new consititution since the current system doesn't seem to work in the environment it is in?

== Analysis ==
*The flight from New Caprica is referred to as "The Second Exodus", implying that the "First Exodus" was from the Colonies to New Caprica.
*Three states that three models are in favor of keeping Baltar around and three are against it, with Six's vote needed to break the stalemate. This indicates that the remaining five models are, for whatever reason, not participating in the vote.
**{{spoilli|According to an [http://www.aintitcool.com/node/30381 interview] with Aaron Douglas and Tamoh Penikett, the remaining five models may have all been [[Boxing|boxed]].}}
* This is the first time viewers have seen a living interior of a Cylon basestar. The only time an interior shot of a basestar was ever seen was in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" when [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] encounters her [[Number Eight|sisters]].
* Lee Adama mentions that he lost "half a stone" refering to his weight. A stone is a unit of weight used mostly in the United Kingdom and Ireland that is equivalent to 14 pounds or 6.34 kg.
* ''Galactica's'' living spaces and hallways appear much more crowded than in the first two seasons, reflecting the expanded size of her crew. There also appear to be civilians mixed in with ''Galactica'''s crew complment, which is likely the result of overcrowding and the loss of some of the ships during the colonization and occupation of New Caprica.
* The exterior of ''Galactica'' is visibly damaged from the [[Battle of New Caprica]].
* The only two [[Cylon agent]]s to appear are Number Three and Number Six.
*On the disposition of the ''Pegasus'' crew and separated military personnel:
**Saul Tigh has resumed service as ''Galactica's'' XO. However, his experiences on New Caprica are hindering his ability to perform his duties.
**Lee Adama is performing bookkeeping work. He still wears his ''Pegasus'' uniform and Commander insignia, but his position on ''Galactica'' is unclear.
**Kara Thrace has retreived her uniform from storage, but it is not clear whether she has been recomissioned.
**Louanne Katraine is not seen. Presumably she continues to serve as ''Galactica's'' CAG.
**Karl Agathon is still working in ''Galactica's'' CIC.
**Anastasia Dualla is not seen.
**Felix Gaeta has been asked to help repair communication systems damaged during ''Galactica's'' atmospheric insertion in "[[Exodus, Part II]]". He is later seen in uniform in the mess hall.
**Galen Tyrol is back in uniform, and has presumably re-enlisted.
**Cally Tyrol is briefly seen caring for her son. It is not clear whether she has re-enlisted.
***Her comment, "Am I on watch?" seems to imply that she has re-enlisted.
**[[Seelix]] is on ''Galactica'' and serves as a member of the Circle, but is not seen in uniform.
**Jammer has been executed by [[The Circle]] for his actions as a member of the [[New Caprica Police]].
*The glowing red strip on the wall in Baltar's room resembles the eye of a [[Cylon Centurion]] or [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]]. While it could be decoration, there's a good chance that it's a surveillance system.

== Notes ==
* This episode marks the resumption of the [[Survivor count]]. The count is revealed to be 41,435, meaning that there has been a net loss of 8,115 people since the beginning of "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]."
* Laura Roslin resumes the Presidency in this episode.
* Kara Thrace has kept her surname, unlike most other married women shown or referenced thus far (including Caroline Adama, Ellen Tigh, Sesha Abinell, Cally Tyrol and Sharon Agathon).
* The Circle is the name used by the Bajoran [[MemoryAlpha:Alliance for Global Unity|Alliance for Global Unity]] in [[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: Deep Space Nine|Star Trek: Deep Space Nine]] ("[[MemoryAlpha:The Homecoming|''The Homecoming'']]", "[[MemoryAlpha:The Circle|''The Circle'']]", and "[[MemoryAlpha:Siege|''The Siege'']]").
*This is the second time the "Don't make me angry, Gaius. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry" threat against Baltar has been used (the first time by Six, the second by Six and Admiral Adama). The quote "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry" is also a nod to ''[[w:The Incredible Hulk|The Incredible Hulk]]''.
* The unnamed woman convicted inbetween Jammer's execution and Gaeta's aborted execution did get executed, thereby increasing the count to 14. This scene was filmed, but later cut out ([[Podcast:Collaborators]]).

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''After discussing the thirteen missing persons:''
:'''Commander Lee Adama''': I've got a date with a jump rope. Hey, I've lost half a stone.
:'''Admiral William Adama''': Keep jumpin'.

*''In Gaius Baltar's dream:''
:'''Number Six''': Don't make me angry, Gaius.
:'''Admiral William Adama''': You wouldn't like her when she's angry.

== Official Statements ==

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Henderson Tyrol|Cally Tyrol]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Dominic Zamprogna]] as [[James Lyman|James "Jammer" Lyman]]
*[[imdb:nm0356501|Jennifer Halley]] as [[Seelix]]
*[[imdb:nm0730455|Ryan Robbins]] as [[Charlie Connor|Connor]]
*[[Alisen Down]] as [[Jean Barolay]]
*Winston Rekert as Priest

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Collaborators

2006-10-30T17:25:04Z

Straycat0: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| title= Collaborators
| image=JammerCollaborators.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 5
| guests=
| writer= [[Mark Verheiden]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production= 305
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-10-27
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,435
| prev= [[Exodus, Part II]]
| next= [[Torn]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[The Circle]], a secret tribunal on ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', decides the fate of [[James Lyman|Jammer]] and other Colonials who aided the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] during the occupation of [[New Caprica]].

== Summary ==
=== On ''[[Galactica]]'' ===
* [[James Lyman]] (Jammer) is brought before [[The Circle]]. He is found guilty of treason, the punishment for which is death. Despite his pleas and an attempt to convince [[Galen Tyrol]] to spare him, for Lyman freed [[Cally Tyrol]] from the Cylon death squad ([[Precipice]]), The Circle carries out Lyman's punishment and ejects him from ''Galactica'' by depressurizing the [[launch tubes|launch tube]] where he is held.
* After Lyman's execution, Tyrol talks to his wife about how she escaped. While she claims to not have thought about the incident since, Cally Tyrol tells him that she thinks one "[[New Caprica Police|of those goons]]" set her free.
* On ''[[Colonial One]]'', [[Laura Roslin]] asks [[Tom Zarek]] of his plans as the new President. Zarek plans to reconvene the Quorum of Twelve, put Roslin's name in for nomination to vice president and then step down, returning the presidency to her. Roslin assumes that this act requires something in return for Zarek, who he asks not be left on the outside of government affairs. For his actions in standing up to Gaius Baltar on New Caprica, she promises him the Vice Presidency.
* [[Felix Gaeta]] enters the still-damaged [[CIC]] to help with repairs to communication. [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] sees him and vocally demands for him to leave, accusing him of being a collaborator. [[Helo]] tells Tigh that Gaeta is there on the Admiral's orders, but Tigh continues to protest loudly until Admiral Adama appears. The admiral takes him out of the room to talk to him about resting so he will be ready, something that Tigh thinks he doesn't need.
* The Circle reconvenes, now under a three-day time limit to dole out justice. As they run through the cases, they eventually they come to the file on Gaeta, with four of the members voting guilty. Anders refuses to vote and leaves the Circle, tired of the continuous killing he has done. Chief Tyrol refuses to vote if they do not have a sixth member as required for the Circle.
* In the mess hall, Gaeta is treated as ''[[Wikipedia:Persona non grata|persona non grata]]'', eating alone until [[Kara Thrace]] sits at his table. She talks, kindly at first, then insults him for his supposed cowardice. Gaeta counters by bringing up his status as the informant, mentioning the dog dish being flipped over as his signal to the resistance.
* Lee and Bill Adama talking about the status of the fleet. Lee Adama brings up the fact that over the past few days, 13 people have mysteriously disappeared, after being confirmed as survivors of the Exodus. As he leaves he reveals that has lost "[[Wikipedia:Stone (weight)|half a stone]]" in weight. Bill tells him to keep jumping rope.
* The Circle brings in Kara Thrace as the replacement vote of the jury. All vote guilty on Gaeta, except for Tyrol once more. Anders comes in and requests time to talk with his wife. The scene splits, with the other members of the Circle trying to convince Tyrol of Gaeta's guilt, and Anders trying to explain that what the Circle does isn't justice. Thrace rebuffs him, her pain from incarceration lashing at anyone, even her husband. Thrace tells Anders that they must separate. The Chief eventually folds and votes guilty.
* Gaeta is captured and brought to a launch tube, told that this is an official trial under authority from the President of the Colonies, and that if he has anything to say to explain himself he should say it now. Gaeta replies that he has already told his story and refuses to beg. Kara Thrace's anger lashes out at Gaeta, telling him to beg, while taunting him with the idea that he was an informant for the insurgency, and mentioning the [[Jake (New Caprica)|dog bowl]]. When the Chief hears this, he reveals that Gaeta could not know about the signal unless he was the one leaving the dead drops, then he releases Gaeta from his bonds. The other members of the Circle realize Gaeta's innocence, that he was in fact the secret source inside the Baltar Adminstration. Colonel Tigh stands speechless in the revelation, confused between his own certainty and the facts before him.
* Laura Roslin is re-inaugurated as the President of the Twelve Colonies, and issues a decree of amnesty against all alleged collaborators, after it is privately revealed that Zarek authorized the trials and sentences conducted by the Circle in an attempt to protect Roslin from having to deal with months of public trials which could destroy the unity of the Fleet through highly publicized "witch hunts." In place of the trials, Roslin announces a commission on "truth and reconciliation", to record the history of the occupation for posterity.
* Still outcast, Gaeta is reinstated in the Colonial Fleet as an officer. In the mess hall, Chief Tyrol sits with Gaeta. Both eat in silence as the other crew members are taken aback by the act.

===On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]===
* [[Gaius Baltar]] seems to be on ''Colonial One'', sitting in a chair in front of Tigh, Roslin, and Admiral Adama as they talk about how there was little he could do with the situation he had on New Caprica.
* As the group forgives him, the [[Cylon-Related Hallucinations|virtual Six]] appears and claims the group is too lenient. Admiral Adama actually seems to hear her. Laura Roslin begins to tell Baltar how much she wants him in a provocative manner when Baltar realizes he is dreaming, waking up as Roslin kisses him.
*Baltar finds himself naked on a red [[Wikipedia:Chaise longue|chaise longue]] inside an unrecognizable room. When a [[Cylon Centurion]] guard appears at the doorway, Baltar realizes that he is imprisoned in the room with only a robe to wear. The scene turns to outer space where we see several Cylon basestars surrounding a [[Resurrection Ship]].
* A [[Number Three]] visits Baltar. She tells him that 3 days have elapsed since his arrival, and offers him a bottle of pills. She tells him that his presence on the basestar has caused a conflict between seven of the models. With three voting for him to be allowed to remain, while three vote for him to be removed. The only model that hasn't come to a consensus are the Sixes.
* [[Caprica Six]] visits Baltar and explains how wrong she was to let her feelings get in the way of her duties as a Cylon. Baltar tries to convince Six that she is more then just a Cylon and that she loves him. As she walks out he belatedly tells her that he needs her as well.
*Later, Baltar awakens to find Caprica-Six setting his clothes in his room.

== Questions ==
* Will there be an illegal organization in the Fleet that will continue where [[The Circle]] left off?
* Since Tigh has been reinstated into the Colonial Fleet, where does this leave Galactica's chain of command? Specifically, what are the roles of Tigh, Helo, and [[Aaron Kelly|Kelly]] now?
* What of [[Lee Adama]], [[Anastasia Dualla]] and other officers of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''? How will these redundacies be dealt with?
* Given that there are civilians aboard ''Galactica'' from the Second Exodus, and previous sabotage events that plagued ''Galactica'' prior to colonization of New Caprica, are they restricted to certain areas?
* Has [[Samuel Anders]] become a member of ''Galactica's'' crew, or is he only allowed onboard because of his relationship with Thrace?
* Will any of The Circle's members or Zarek face charges, or will they be pardoned by Roslin's government for what they had done?
* Now that the Cylons seem to have accepted Gaius Baltar, at least begrudgingly, what will happen to him?
* What happened to those who were left behind on [[New Caprica]]?
* Which Cylon models are in favor of allowing Baltar to stay with them (besides Three, who proposed it in the first place) and which are not in favor?
* Does Caprica-Six setting Baltar's clothes on his bed indicate that the Cylons have chosen to allow him to remain?
* What became of Zarek's deal with Roslin to become Vice-President after his order authorizing the Circle came to light? Did he become Vice-President, or is he back on the outside?
* How could [[The Circle]] operate in ''Galactica's'' launch tube without William Adama's notice?
* Did the unnamed woman convicted inbetween Jammer's execution and Gaeta's execution actual get executed, thereby increasing the count killed by the Circle from 13 to 14?

== Analysis ==
*The flight from New Caprica is referred to as "The Second Exodus", implying that the "First Exodus" was from the Colonies to New Caprica.
*Three states that three models are in favor of keeping Baltar around and three are against it, with Six's vote needed to break the stalemate. This indicates that the remaining five models are, for whatever reason, not participating in the vote.
**{{spoilli|According to an [http://www.aintitcool.com/node/30381 interview] with Aaron Douglas and Tamoh Penikett, the remaining five models may have all been [[Boxing|boxed]].}}
* This is the first time viewers have seen a living interior of a Cylon basestar. The only time an interior shot of a basestar was ever seen was in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" when [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] encounters her [[Number Eight|sisters]].
* Lee Adama mentions that he lost "half a stone" refering to his weight. A stone is a unit of weight used mostly in the United Kingdom and Ireland that is equivalent to 14 pounds or 6.34 kg.
* ''Galactica's'' living spaces and hallways appear much more crowded than in the first two seasons, reflecting the expanded size of her crew. There also appear to be civilians mixed in with ''Galactica'''s crew complment, which is likely the result of overcrowding and the loss of some of the ships during the colonization and occupation of New Caprica.
* The exterior of ''Galactica'' is visibly damaged from the [[Battle of New Caprica]].
* The only two [[Cylon agent]]s to appear are Number Three and Number Six.
*On the disposition of the ''Pegasus'' crew and separated military personnel:
**Saul Tigh has resumed service as ''Galactica's'' XO. However, his experiences on New Caprica are hindering his ability to perform his duties.
**Lee Adama is performing bookkeeping work. He still wears his ''Pegasus'' uniform and Commander insignia, but his position on ''Galactica'' is unclear.
**Kara Thrace has retreived her uniform from storage, but it is not clear whether she has been recomissioned.
**Louanne Katraine is not seen. Presumably she continues to serve as ''Galactica's'' CAG.
**Karl Agathon is still working in ''Galactica's'' CIC.
**Anastasia Dualla is not seen.
**Felix Gaeta has been asked to help repair communication systems damaged during ''Galactica's'' atmospheric insertion in "[[Exodus, Part II]]". He is later seen in uniform in the mess hall.
**Galen Tyrol is back in uniform, and has presumably re-enlisted.
**Cally Tyrol is briefly seen caring for her son. It is not clear whether she has re-enlisted.
**[[Seelix]] is on ''Galactica'' and serves as a member of the Circle, but is not seen in uniform.
**Jammer has been executed by [[The Circle]] for his actions as a member of the [[New Caprica Police]].
*The glowing red strip on the wall in Baltar's room resembles the eye of a [[Cylon Centurion]] or [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]]. While it could be decoration, there's a good chance that it's a surveillance system.

== Notes ==
* This episode marks the resumption of the [[Survivor count]]. The count is revealed to be 41,435, meanting that there has been a net loss of 8,115 people since the beginning of "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]."
* Laura Roslin resumes the Presidency in this episode.
* Kara Thrace has kept her surname, unlike most other married women shown or referenced thus far (including Caroline Adama, Ellen Tigh, Sesha Abinell, Cally Tyrol and Sharon Agathon).
* The Circle is the name used by the Bajoran [[MemoryAlpha:Alliance for Global Unity|Alliance for Global Unity]] in [[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: Deep Space Nine|Star Trek: Deep Space Nine]] ("[[MemoryAlpha:The Homecoming|''The Homecoming'']]", "[[MemoryAlpha:The Circle|''The Circle'']]", and "[[MemoryAlpha:Siege|''The Siege'']]").
*This is the second time Six, after a fashion, has used the "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry" threat against Baltar. The quote "You wouldn't like me when I'm angry" is also a nod to ''[[w:The Incredible Hulk|The Incredible Hulk]]''.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''After discussing the thirteen missing persons:''
:'''Commander Lee Adama''': I've got a date with a jump rope. Hey, I've lost half a stone.
:'''Admiral William Adama''': Keep jumpin'.

*''In Gaius Baltar's dream:''
:'''Number Six''': Don't make me angry, Gaius.
:'''Admiral William Adama''': You wouldn't like her when she's angry.

== Official Statements ==

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Henderson Tyrol|Cally Tyrol]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Dominic Zamprogna]] as [[James Lyman|James "Jammer" Lyman]]
*[[imdb:nm0356501|Jennifer Halley]] as [[Seelix]]
*[[imdb:nm0730455|Ryan Robbins]] as [[Charlie Connor|Connor]]
*[[Alisen Down]] as [[Jean Barolay]]
*Winston Rekert as Priest

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I

2006-10-30T03:51:28Z

Straycat0: /* Guest Stars */

{{Episode Data
| image = Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I.jpg
| title= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I
| season= 2
| episode= 19
| guests= [[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]] [[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]] [[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
| writer= [[Ronald D. Moore]]
| story=
| goof= Y
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating= 1.8
| US airdate= 2006-03-03
| UK airdate= 2006-05-09
| dvd= {{Season 2.5 NTSC DVD release date}} '''US''' {{Season 2 PAL DVD release date}} '''UK'''
| population= 49,579
| prev= [[Downloaded]]
| next= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]
| podcast= Y
}}

== Overview ==
:''As the presidential election looms just weeks away, the accidental discovery of a habitable planet sparks debate in the Fleet: Colonize? Or keep seeking Earth? Meanwhile, [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] leads a rescue mission of Raptors back to [[The_Twelve_Colonies_%28RDM%29#Caprica|Caprica]] to save [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] and his resistance''.

== Summary ==
*[[William Adama|Adama]] has finally given [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] the go-ahead to plan a rescue mission to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Caprica]]. On [[Pegasus (RDM)|''Pegasus'']], she lays out their plan: they will use ''all'' of their remaining [[Raptor|Raptors]] — 20 in all — and use the navigation computer/organ from one of the captured [[Heavy Raider]]s to calculate the Jumps back to Caprica. Using this, they can make it back to Caprica in a series of 10 Jumps. They will go undetected when they reach Caprica by making a risky jump to just a few klicks above the surface, within the atmosphere itself, below [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] [[DRADIS]]. Their biggest obstacle to doing this was actually interfacing with the Heavy Raider's navigation "computer", but now they will take [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|''Caprica''-Sharon]] along in Starbuck's Raptor with it; Sharon will directly interface with the computer (by inserting a fiber-optic cable into her arm, like she did in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]").
*The presidential election is two weeks away, and [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] is ahead in the polls. The only real arguments that [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] has against her that give him any ground are when he accuses her of pandering to the religious fundamentalists (i.e. her recent policy switch on abortion) and guiding the Fleet based on the scriptures alone. Conferring with his campaign manager [[Tom Zarek]] in his lab, Baltar realizes he'll need more than this to turn the fleet againt Roslin. Meanwhile, Roslin is doing a little rehearsal ritual for the presidential debate with Adama in his quarters.
*On the hangar deck, [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] is sleeping on the floor and twitching convulsively, having a nightmare. [[Cally]] searches around the deck to find him, and is confused by the sight when she finds him. Cally tried to wake Tyrol up, but snapping right out of his nightmare he attacks Cally, punching her in the face until she is a bloody pulp and unconscious. Realizing where he is and what's going on, Tyrol is horrified, and carries Cally in his arms to sickbay.
*[[Lee Adama|Apollo]] has conflicting feelings about Starbuck's mission to rescue Anders, but wishes her good luck in finding him.
*[[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and ''Caprica''-Sharon travel in Starbuck's Raptor. Sharon is still deeply depressed about her daughter [[Hera]]'s apparent death, and has been shutting herself out. Helo tells her that he won't let her do that and won't give up on her. Sharon tells him that she has the feeling that something bad will happen in the future; not on the mission to Caprica, but something else.
*On the very first jump out of the series of ten, [[Margaret Edmondson|Racetrack]]'s Raptor jumps to the wrong set of coordinates. Starbuck's orders were to keep going ahead until they lose 3 Raptors, so they continue on, while Racetrack prepares to follow her orders to return to [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']] if separated. Her Raptor jumped into the middle of a gas cloud with a lot of interference, and upon clearing it, a new planet is found. Scanners indicate that it is a human-habitable planet. She returns to ''Galactica'' with news of the discovery.
*The crew goes over the scans from the planet; it can sustain human life and subsequent scouting shows that in contains animal and vegetative life; they could indeed settle here. However, it is a cold world and somewhat harsh; only a temperate band around the equator covering about 20% of the surface would be habitable. After some prodding from [[Six]], Baltar and Zarek realize that they can use this as their wedge issue to turn the people against Roslin: offer them permament settlement on this planet.
*[[Tory Foster|Tory]] goes over new poll numbers with Roslin on [[Colonial One]]: Baltar has been gaining ground with his new offer to stop running from the Cylons and stay here. The planet is hidden by interference from the gas clouds, and many people want to stop their constant run in the refugee fleet. Roslin points out that if the Colonials could find the planet, the Cylons could just as easily. Tory points out that Baltar is pandering to the people's hopes, while Roslin is pointing out the bitter truth that they simply don't want to hear; people will vote their hopes.
*Shocked by his attack on Cally, Chief Tyrol asks for religious counselling, and meets with a priest named [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]. Tyrol explains that it is because he doesn't believe that psychoanalysis works, but is himself a very [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|religious]] man. Cavil is somewhat loose and sarcastic in his counseling, leaving Tyrol a little pertubed and confused. Cavil tells Tryol that he must look for the problem in himself and questions Tyrol, and when Tyrol denies that he has been having disturbing dreams, Cavil can see through it, so Tyrol relents.
*For weeks, Tyrol has been having the recurring dream that he walks onto the upper level of the hangar deck, climbs over the railing and commits suicide himself by jumping to his death. Cavil says it is because Tyrol has a subconscious desire to kill himself. Tyrol explains that he has had the gnawing worry since [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]] died that he might himself be a [[Cylon agent|Cylon]]. ''Galactica''-Sharon never really knew she was a Cylon, even up to the point that she died, but reported strange fears that something bad was going to happen and she had to stop herself: how would Tyrol, or anyone else, really ''know'' if they were a Cylon sleeper agent or not? Tyrol is frightened by the prospect.
*Cavil assured Tyrol that he is not a Cylon, sarcastically quipping that he knows because he is a Cylon himself, and hasn't seen Tyrol at any of the meetings. Tyrol feels ashamed to go back to the hangar deck crew after the accident, but Cavil assures him that they're the only family he has left, and they love him, especially Cally.
*At the final presidential debate, Baltar's charisma and hopes of finally giving up their run from the Cylons starts to pull him ahead in the polls, and Roslin's warnings that this planet is not safe and determination to keep searching for Earth do not gain wide support. Baltar apparently wins the final debate. Roslin tells him to go frak himself.
*The rescue mission makes the final jump to Caprica. [[Raptor 612]] is lost because it jumps right into the middle of a mountain. The remaining Raptors continue on, then Starbuck, Helo, Sharon and the marines continue on foot.
*One klick away from the resistance's base camp, they see movement, and find [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] and his whole group. Starbuck is overjoyed to see him, but Anders warns that the Cylons are right behind them; the resistance's base was ambushed that morning, and half of Anders' men are dead.
*The [[Colonial Marine Corps|marines]] and [[Caprica Resistance]] members start coming under Cylon artillery fire. After running briefly, they reach a point where the arc of the artillery shells is right above them, and cannot hit them. However, the artillery's killzone is now between them and retreat back to the Raptors. To be continued...

== Questions ==
*If Raptor 612 was destroyed by jumping into a mountain, how was their transponder still operational? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])
*Does the fleet have the resources to sustain long term settlements on the newly found planet? Even if ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' themselves were recycled, would there be enough materials, or would the Battlestars still be necessary for orbital defence?
*Zarek says the people have been cooped up in metal boxes since the attack. How literally does he mean this—for instance, are people living inside converted cargo holds as they were in the original series? Or did he just meant being stuck inside of cramped ships in general, i.e. even the ''Galactica'' crew (who have dedicated crew quarters)?
*Laura states that Baltar does not have a key issue besides the "religious angle." What about the abortion issue from "[[The Captain's Hand]]"? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

== Analysis ==
*Timeline:
**According to [[Six]], on the night of the first debate the election is still "two weeks away".
**At the beginning of the first debate, [[James McManus]] states Baltar declared his bid for presidency a month ago. This took place at the end of "[[The Captain's Hand]]".
**Zarek states that the people of the fleet have been "cooped up in metal boxes for nine months", putting this episode not long after "[[Downloaded]]" around Day 270.
**At the conclusion of the second debate, the polls will open in three days.
**It appears to take the Raptors 10 days to make the trip back to Caprica. Not enough is known yet about the vagaries of Colonial FTL drives and computers to explain why it should take so long.

*[[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]] is apparently assigned to ''Pegasus'' at present, since Dualla refers to her mission as the "Pegasus survey team".
**She could have been flying a ''Pegasus'' Raptor.

*[[Lee Adama]] is now wearing a wristwatch, perhaps [[Barry Garner]]'s from "[[The Captain's Hand]]".

*It is safe to emerge from a hyperspace jump inside a planetary atmosphere at 2km, but not within solid rock. For comparative purposes, the density of air at 2km in an earth-like atmosphere is about 1 kg/m3, while the density of silica rock is about 2,600 kg/m3.

*When Tyrol's counseling with Cavil is coming to an end, Cavil notes to Tyrol that Cally "especially" loves him. Tyrol is apparently oblivious to this obvious fact up to that point.

*In this episode they refer to "the captured Heavy Raider", singular. This would imply that only the one Starbuck brought back from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]" was still functional at all, and the one that crashed into ''Galactica'' in "[[Scattered]]" was damaged beyond salvage or repair.

*The pro-settlement faction seems to assume that Cylon agents still hiding within the Fleet will not be able to contact the Cylon fleet to track the Colonials, in particular in view of the shielding afforded by the gas cloud near New Caprica.

*When [[Raptor 612]] jumps into the mountain, it jumps '''into''' the mountain. RDM confirms in the podcast that by "jumped into the mountain" it doesn't mean "they jumped close to it and thus crashed", it means, exactly like a Star Trek transporter accident, that they materialized from the Jump into solid rock, "half-phased".

*The "''religious''" angle that Baltar was using was based on the abortion issue. The banning of abortion by Roslin was two-folded. First, it was meant to prevent any action that would hinder the growth of humanity's population. Second, it was meant to mollify the religious faction, who objected to abortion on dogmatic grounds.

== Notes ==
*This episode is part of the [[Season two timeline discontinuity]].
*The re-cap for this episode includes scenes not actually shown in previous episodes—for instance, Starbuck demanding to the dying Roslin circa "[[Epiphanies]]" that they go back and rescue the Caprica resistance.
*Roslin's comment to Baltar after the last presidential debate, "Why don't you go frak yourself", is likely inspired by the [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3699-2004Jun24.html incident] on June 22, 2004 in the US Senate, when Vice President [[Wikipedia:Dick Cheney|Dick Cheney]] told Senator [[Wikipedia:Patrick Leahy|Patrick Leahy]] to "go fuck yourself".
*When Baltar sarcastically quips that Zarek (and Six) expect him to just sit around and wait for "The Hand of God" to deliver them something they can use to their advantage against Roslin, he is of course referencing the previous episode titled "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]". Ironically, Baltar considers himself the hand of God in that episode. Further, a "chance serendipitous event" (namely the discovery of an inhabitable planet) does deliver them something they can use against Roslin.
*Likewise, when Apollo wishes Starbuck "good hunting", there's a tone of concern, and he seems to pause before saying it, as if Apollo meant to say something else but changed his mind. This may be a reference to "[[33]]", when Starbuck tells Apollo to say "good hunting" instead of "be careful out there".
*This episode has many parallels to "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" and "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]": the discovery of an inhabitable planet, Gaeta plotting a Raptor jump dangerously close to a planet surface, Starbuck's use of captured Cylon technology to return to Caprica, the intercutting of several plot threads in the teaser, a character contemplating suicide out of fear of being a Cylon, and difficulties between Helo and Sharon. In addition, Tyrol's assault of Cally is something of a parallel to Helo shooting Sharon in "Kobol's Last Gleaming"—in both cases, a man driven to rage physically and emotionally wounds a woman who loves him.
*When Lt. Gaeta takes his shirt off in the washroom, his tiger tatoo from "[[Final Cut]]" can be seen.
*The combined Colonial fleet had 20 Raptors in this episode, of which 1 was destroyed before the end. Previously, ''Galactica'' was confirmed to have at least 5 left ([[The Farm]]), with the suggestion that there may be as many as 8 ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]). Doubtlessly, ''Pegasus'' brought at least an equal number of Raptors with it when it joined the Fleet, but 20 is still a high number for this. Perhaps a disproportionately large number of Raptors escaped to [[Ragnar Anchorage]] during the [[Miniseries]]. Unlike Vipers, Raptors do have FTL drives. We actually saw Boomer and Helo escaping the destruction of their Viper squadron, because Raptors do not engage in frontline combat, and because they have an extenstive ECM suite which Helo was trying to jam the Cylon virus signal with. Indeed, [[Crashdown]] was a Raptor ECO, but Boomer stated that he was not from ''Galactica'', but a refugee "from Triton" (a battlestar). Or perhaps like in real life with American Nimitz class Aircraft Carriers that carry a larger number of fighter aircraft compared to older Forrestal class carriers, the Pegasus, being a larger and more modern Battlestar than Galactica, it has the capability to carry a larger complement of Raptors.
**Also, more Raptors could have been built with extra materials after the Viper squadrons were manufactured ([[Scar]]).

*The jump error that landed the Raptor in the nebula was attributed to a "firmware error" by the crew. This may be an indication that there was firmware upgrade to deal with the increased FTL jump distances provided by the Cylon computer.
*When Cavil is consoling Tyrol's fears that he might unknowingly be a Cylon sleeper agent, just like Boomer was, Tyrol asks him how he can know for sure. Cavil sarcastically answers that it's because maybe he's a Cylon, and he hasn't seen Tyrol at any of the meetings: Number Six also sarcastically remarked to Baltar in the Miniseries that [[Aaron Doral]] could not be a Cylon, because she hadn't "seen him at any of the good Cylon parties"...but of course, Doral actually ''was'' a Cylon, implying that Cavil is truly more than he seems.
*Tory actually paraphrases the title of this episode aloud, saying that the new planet offers people in the Fleet the hope that they can "lay down their burdens" and stop running.
*During the premiere airing of this episode on the Sci-Fi Channel, before the Teaser segment a "Parental Discretion Is Advised" black and white message was inserted. At the end of the Teaser, Tyrol beats Cally to a bloody pulp.
*Lee Adama is now wearing a new uniform as Commander of ''Pegasus'': it is a Commander's uniform, denoted by the new red trim (with gold inner trim), and it has a white "''Pegasus'' BSG-62" patch, replacing his old gold "''Galactica'' BSG-75" patch.
*Dualla's photo of Adama is the left half of a group shot with Kara Thrace and his brother Zak Adama. The original belongs to Thrace, and she has kept it in her locker on ''Galactica'' since the miniseries.
*Dualla refers to "rivers of milk and honey" on the newly discovered planet. The phrase "land of milk and honey" is a common epithet for the promised land in the Torah, appearing in Exodus 3:8, 3:17, 13:5, 33:3, Leviticus 20:24, Number 13:27, 14:8, 16:13-14, and Deuteronomy 6:3.
*Commander Lee Adama is seen eating noodles with chopsticks in his quarters, just like his father in "[[33]]", etc.
*In the podcast, RDM states that originally instead of Starbuck, Helo, and Sharon leading the other Raptors in another Raptor, they would have been flying in the captured Heavy Raider itself. However, the 2 part season finale went overbudget and cuts had to be made, and the cost of building the Heavy Raider interior was deemed prohibitively expensive. Thus, they bring the Heavy Raider computer/organ with them in a normal Raptor. Moore said he believed that fans "wouldn't miss" an actual appearance by the Heavy Raider.
*Col. [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] appears in this epsiode twice but doesn't speak a single line.
*This is the first time since the [[Miniseries]] that Helo is seen fulfilling his duties as an [[ECO]].
*Apollo quips that if they find a habitable planet, he'll build the pilots a bar on it. Actor Jamie Bamber has said in interviews that part of Apollo's backstory is that he didn't know what he was going to do with his life; he's in the Colonial Fleet reserves, not a full-career commitment, etc. He said that right before the attack, Apollo was supposed to be considering leaving the service and just openning up a bar somewhere.
*Actress [[Leah Cairns]] said in an [http://podcasts.lvrocks.com/details.aspx?castid=5 interview] on June 27th, 2006 that a fan, [[User:Sabaceanbabe|Sabaceanbabe]], wrote a short fanfiction romance story (located [http://sabaceanbabe.livejournal.com/38792.html here], scroll down to part 5) on the messageboards between [[Margaret Edmondson|Racetrack]] and Helo, and she decided to work it into her character's backstory: Cairns plays her scenes as if Racetrack is attracted to Helo and jealous of Caprica-Sharon. Tahmoh Penikett is aware of this and when playing Helo recognizes this, though he is not attracted to her and loves Caprica-Sharon. In the opening scene of this episode, when Caprica-Sharon is brought into the ''Pegasus'' pilot briefing room (essentially the only time in the series so far in which Racetrack, Helo, and Caprica-Sharon were in the same scene), Cairns asked director Michael Rymer if they could film a few extra shots working in these elements she had developed for her backstory, and he agreed, so several extra shots were filmed for this scene: after Helo walks over to Caprica-Sharon, Racetrack looks jealously at them and Helo notices while Caprica-Sharon doesn't. These shots were filmed, but were removed in the editing room. They might appear in the Season 2.5 DVD extras.
*Ron Moore co-hosted the podcast commentary for this episode with his wife [[Terry Dresbach]]

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Laura Roslin is preparing for the presidential debate''
:'''Laura Roslin:''' This is what I do, I memorize the talking point, then tear the card…let the pieces fall as they may. It helps.
:'''William Adama:''' Yeah, my father used to break pencils before going into court, and then borrow one from the clerk. "Break preconceptions, work with what you have."
:'''Laura Roslin:''' You know, I like that. Let me see…:''
:''Laura breaks a pencil''
:'''Laura Roslin:''' That's good…. But what happens if the moderator doesn't have a pencil?
:'''William Adama:''' Then you're pretty screwed.

*''Brother Cavil explains to Chief Tyrol the "value" of prayer:''
:'''Brother Cavil:''' Do you know how useless prayer is? Chanting, and singing, and mucking about with old half-remembered lines of bad poetry? And you know what it gets you? Exactly nothing.
:'''Chief Tyrol:''' Are you sure you're a priest?

*''Chief Tyrol is worried that like'' Galactica''-Sharon, he could just as well be another Cylon sleeper agent:''
:'''Chief Tyrol:''' How do you know I'm human?
:'''Brother Cavil:''' Oh, well, maybe because I'm a Cylon and I've never seen you at any of the meetings.

*''Baltar and Zarek discuss campaign strategy''
:'''Gaius Baltar:''' I'm not sure if you're aware, [[Tom Zarek|Tom]], but the mob isn't usually in the habit of electing ungodly apostates who denegrate people of faith.
:'''Tom Zarek:''' Things are gonna turn around. You'll see.
:'''Gaius Baltar:''' What is that, advice? Well, thank you for your ''keen'' insight, your ''astounding'' political acumen. You know, I'm so assured right now, Tom, I'm just going to sit right back and wait for the hand of God to reach down and change my political fortunes!

== Official Statements ==

*''In an interview in issue #197 of TV Zone, James Callis (Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]]) said:'' "[T]he arrival of the ''Pegasus'' has helped galvanize our characters into who they are and who they’re trying to be. These later episodes [in Season 2] also further drive home the fact that the Galactica’s crew could be exterminated by its own kind, meaning that Humans are potentially far more terrifying an enemy than perhaps the Cylons."

=== From RDM's blog ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/03/#a000409 March 28, 2006]) ===

* '''"Why is the fleet so concerned [about] [[Government|elections]]? They are running for their lives, so I would think holding elections would be the least of their problems."'''

: I felt right from the beginning that question of who was in charge and how a democratic society would deal with this situation was one of the fundamental questions of the show. If democracy means anything, it means that people get to decide who their leaders are and what kind of life they choose to lead. And the operative word is "choose." Democracies are about choices, some made intelligently and thoughtfully, and some not so much. [[William Adama|Adama]] and the ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' were faced with an immediate question as to the role of the military in this surviving population: were they still the servants of the people, or were they the overseers? Adama's choice was to preserve the idea of their society, indeed of their entire civilization while still striving to protect them from their enemies both within and without. It was, and continues to be a difficult balancing act, but as he said in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I|Resurrection Ship]]": [[Themes in Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|it's not enough to survive, you have to [be] worthy of suriving]].

: If the military simply took choice away from the people of the fleet, if it simply decided that the senior commanders knew best and that was that, then the people out there in those ships become irrelevant. They're cargo. It's a military world and a military society and everything else is secondary. Down that road lies the cautionary tale of Admiral [[Helena Cain|Cain]] and the battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. One Adama and ''Galactica'' decided not to go down that road, then the entire panoply of democracy was in play -- representation by consent and elections to determine those representatives.

=== Interviews ===

* '''[[Nicki Clyne]] ([[Cally]]) talks about [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]'s maddened assault on Cally:'''
:It was difficult for people to watch. Even when we were filming it and it was difficult to do. Not only physically, but I had to make it look real. Actually, [[Aaron Douglas|Aaron (Douglas]]–Chief Tyrol) actually punched me in the face! (''she chuckled as she continued on'') And, it’s really difficult, but the funny part about it is that he and I were trying to be brave, but whenever you get knocked in the face I think the instinct is to start crying. I was laughing at the same time, trying to persuade everyone that I was fine, but there were tears streaming down my face. And, Aaron was all, ‘But it wasn’t me.’ I was like, ‘Ok, ok, I am not blaming you, I know it was an accident, but I don’t think I punched myself in the face.’ He felt terrible about it happening. It was fine. Luckily, I didn’t get a bruise and slow everything up.
:But it was difficult and I am trying to block the punches and then my own hand was going into the whole scene and realizing what he had done. It was pretty emotional. [http://scifibrain.ign.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2384&Itemid=0]

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as Specialist [[Cally]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
*[[Alisen Down]] as [[Jean Barolay]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
*[[imdb:nm0443286|David Kaye]] as [[James McManus]]
*[[imdb:nm0492687|Colin Lawrence]] as [[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]]

{{episode list (RDM season 2)}}

[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Das neue Caprica, Teil I]]

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II

2006-10-30T03:50:20Z

Straycat0: /* Guest Stars */

{{Episode Data
| image = Baltarlaydownburdensii.jpg
| title= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II
| season= 2
| episode= 20
| guests= [[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]] [[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]] [[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
| writer= [[Anne Cofell Saunders]] [[Mark Verheiden]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating= 1.9
| US airdate= 2006-04-10
| UK airdate= 2006-05-16
| dvd= {{Season 2.5 NTSC DVD release date}} '''US''' {{Season 2 PAL DVD release date}} '''UK'''
| population= 49,550
| prev= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]
| next= [[Occupation]]
| podcast= Y
}}

== Overview ==

:''Everything turns on its head as the survivors vote for a new president -- and vote for their fate.''

== Summary ==

===On Caprica===

*[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]], the [[marines]], and the [[Caprica Resistance]] continue to take fire from [[Cylon Centurion]]s and their artillery. They make their way up a hill, and hold their position.
*The Cylons hold fire, and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] remarks that the Cylons will attempt to capture them with non-lethal weapons, such as gas.
*Eighteen hours later, they emerge to find that the Cylons have disappeared. [[Cavil]] -- who suddenly appears behind them -- announces that the Cylons have left the Twelve Colonies and that humanity is spared.

===In the Fleet===

*[[Cally]] is cleared for duty by [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]], despite having her jaw wired shut. [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] visits her, apologizing for the attack. Cally forgives him, saying that she's always cared for him.

*[[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]] continues to gain in the polls. On ''[[Colonial One]]'', [[Tory_Foster|Tory]] mentions an alternative victory plan. [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] later calls a private meeting with Dr. Baltar, asking to deliver a joint statement of [[Wikipedia:Table (verb)|tabling]] the issue of colonization until after the election. Baltar rejects the idea.

*Roslin, fearing that she has indeed lost the presidential race, confronts [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on whether he was with a copy of [[Number Six]] on Caprica before the Cylon attack. Baltar avoids answering the question and states that he may have [[Epiphanies|saved her life]], but he will not save her political life.

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] returns to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' with the resistance fighters, much to the delight of Admiral [[William Adama]]. She mentions the Cylon retreat from Caprica as Brother Cavil, leaving the Raptor, confirms it. He also says he has a message, but is attacked by Chief [[Galen Tyrol]], who declares a "[[Code blue]]," claiming Cavil is a Cylon. Incensed that Caprica-Valerii did not reveal Cavil's true nature earlier, Admiral Adama orders both Caprica-Valerii and the second Cavil to the brig.

*The ''Galactica''-based Cavil (from last episode) is brought to the brig, claiming he's not a Cylon, but changes his tune upon seeing his "brother", as he calls him. Caprica-Cavil then talks about the fact that the “war heroes” ([[Caprica Six]] & [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|"Boomer" Valerii]]) have convinced their kind that the attack of the colonies and the pursuit of the fleet were mistakes. Caprica-Cavil's mission was to relay the message that man and Cylon will go their separate ways. Both Roslin and Admiral Adama are less than trusting regarding the message.

*In the brig, Caprica-Valerii is completely disillusioned and nihilistic, declaring that since her [[Hera|child's]] death, nothing -- not Adama's trust or [[Helo]]'s -- matters to her. A frustrated Helo insists that he's not giving up on her, but she seems disinclined to listen.

*Thrace and [[Anders]] are getting extremely drunk when Apollo comes in to welcome them back. Starbuck makes a snide remark about Apollo and Dualla and goes back to drunkenly making out with Anders. Apollo, clearly upset with Starbuck, leaves without saying much.

*Election Day has arrived and Baltar has an apparent five thousand-vote lead over Roslin with only a few ships left to tally. On ''Colonial One'', Foster activates her alternative victory plan with a call to ''Galactica.''

*Amazingly, Roslin initially appears to have retained the presidency. While most are celebrating, Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] discovers fraudulent actions in the vote, and informs the Admiral that Col. Tigh (who acts suspiciously when questioned by Gaeta) may be involved in a conspiracy to throw the election.

*Admiral Adama confronts Roslin regarding the conspiracy, saying that Tigh has confessed to rigging the vote. Roslin admits her involvement and Adama is disappointed. The Admiral indicates that, for good or bad, the people's vote must take precedence. Adama secretly buries the conspiracy itself while announcing the startling change in events to Dr. Baltar.

*Initially Baltar vows to have a full investigation on the vote count, but after Adama suggests that Baltar take his victory and leave matters be, Baltar relents and informs Adama that he can be quite generous in victory. President-elect Baltar then orders a course for “[[New Caprica]].”

*Baltar and Gina consummate their relationship after Gina informs Baltar that she would not be part of the colonization.

*[[Gaius Baltar]] is sworn in as the new President of the Twelve Colonies, and orders the immediate colonization of New Caprica.

*Gina activates the nuclear warhead [[Epiphanies|given to her by Baltar]] aboard ''[[Cloud 9]]''. The nuclear blast destroys ''Cloud 9'' and at least three other ships. Admiral Adama warns that this may be a prelude to a Cylon attack, but President Baltar ignores him and presses forward with colonization.

===One Year Later===
[[image:burdens2.jpg|Thrace and Cottle on New Caprica.|thumb]]
*President Baltar's administration appears to be corrupt, lax, and unresponsive. [[Felix Gaeta|Mr. Gaeta]], now the President's aide, reports issues with a worker's union. Baltar is upset, saying there have been no Cylon attacks but the people still complain. He has regressed, turning to alcohol, medication, and womanizing.

*Admiral Adama, now sporting a mustache, walks the corridors of a near-empty ''Galactica'', which is quickly falling into disrepair. Over half of the crew have moved down onto the planet, leaving the ship so short on crew that they barely have enough pilots to fly training missions, much less form up [[Combat Air Patrol]]s. The long absence of the Cylons has left both the remaining crews aboard the [[Pegasus]] and the Galactica rusty, causing them to take a long time to go to [[Action Stations]]. Adama asks Tigh to retire from duty to join his [[Ellen Tigh|wife]] on the planet. Tigh reluctantly agrees.

*[[Samuel Anders|Anders]], now Thrace's husband, has pneumonia. Dr. Cottle is unable to treat Anders because there are no antibiotics available. He can only advise Thrace to make sure Anders gets enough rest in order to recover.

*Thrace runs into the Tighs as [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]], now a union boss, is making a speech to begin a strike, with a very pregnant Cally by his side. Col. Tigh mentions to Thrace that ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' keeps a store of backup medical supplies and that Commander [[Lee Adama]] might spring some for her. Thrace disagrees, which prompts Tigh to state that Lee Adama should be over her harsh neglect of Adama's friendship after Anders' arrival a year before.

*Roslin returns to her teaching roots, teaching the settlement's children, and manages to find enjoyment in her new position. [[Maya]] is with her, as is the now one year-old "[[Hera|Isis]]".

*Thrace calls Commander Lee Adama aboard ''Pegasus'' to request the antibiotics. [[Dualla]], ostensibly the ''Pegasus'' [[XO]], notices something on [[DRADIS]], to her horror.

*A massive fleet of [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s arrive in orbit around New Caprica. The Adamas discuss what to do in response, with Lee initially advocating that the remains of the orbiting Fleet [[FTL|jump]] away. Admiral Adama initially resists, but orders the Jump, vowing that they will return.

*A [[Leoben Conoy]]-model [[Cylon agent]] shows up at Thrace and Anders' tent, where he asks an ailing Anders about where to find Thrace.

*Mr. Gaeta informs the President of the Cylon approach. Later, before his assembled staff, copies of Numbers [[Number Five|5]], [[Number Eight|8]], and [[Number Six|6]] approach the President. The Cylons declare that as long as there’s no resistance, no harm will come. President Baltar, after learning that the Cylons discovered New Caprica because of the nuclear explosion set off by Gina, declares surrender on behalf of the colonists. As Cylon armies occupy the planet, Thrace vows to resist.

== Questions ==

*Who is Baltar's vice president?

*Is Gaeta Baltar's assistant or his Vice President?
:Based on Ron Moore's comment (see the spoiler text), it is probable that Gaeta is merely an assistant.

*What of [[Tom Zarek]]? ([[Exodus, Part I|Answer]])

*Has Gaeta's view of Baltar changed since Baltar's ascension to the presidency? If so, is Gaeta planning to do anything about it?

*Was Roslin's threat to put the two Cavils into space actually carried out?

*Where did the remains of the Fleet escape to?
**If the Cylons' claim of having abandoned the Colonies is true, the Fleet might be able to return to Ragnar Anchorage to reammunition; that facility likely held enough munitions to rearm multiple battlestars, and might also contain emergency supplies, rations, and the like.

*Where is Caprica-Valerii? ([[Occupation|Answer]])

*Why is Leoben looking for Starbuck, specifically? ([[Occupation|Answer]])

*Why has the population (until Tyrol's recent union speech) accepted Baltar's imperious rule? People were hardly so passive under Roslin. Indeed, Adama executed a [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|military coup]] over a rather less important issue than giving a nuclear weapon to a Cylon agent.

*What were the workers being asked to do which was so "odious", "so sick[ening] at heart" that Tyrol was willing to call a general strike, and so important to Baltar that he was willing to use illegal imprisonment to break it?
**Since Tyrol's speech is an exact copy of a historical one, its words might not fully apply to the situation at hand.

*Baltar surrenders to copies of Cylon agents Six and Eight. Are these agents the reincarnated [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|"Boomer" Valerii]]? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*If "Galactica-Sharon" is present on New Caprica, will she attempt to rekindle ties with Tyrol? If she does, what kind of effect will that have on his relationship with Cally?

*Where did the Cylon fleets go, after they left the Twelve Colonies? Cavil was deliberately vague when asked if they simply returned to the [[Cylon homeworld]].

*Why didn't the nuclear device trigger the radiological alarms on either battlestar?
**Radiological alarms are set to ignore nukes on certain ships (e.g. Galactica and Pegasus themselves). With his tech skills and close friendship with Lt. Gaeta, Baltar probably found a way to make the radiologicals ignore Cloud 9, or ignore that particular nuke (if the latter is possible).

*How many people died in ''Cloud 9'' destruction? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Were the Quorum of Twelve killed on ''Cloud 9''?

*Were [[Shevon]] and [[Paya]] killed on ''Cloud 9''?

*When Gina was instantly vaporized due to being only two feet from a nuclear detonation, did she still transmit her consciousness? Was she even capable of transmitting considering that any internal hardware responsible for this task would have been instantly destroyed? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Given Roslin's memories of Baltar with Six, why didn't Admiral Adama suspect Baltar of handing over the nuclear warhead to the cylons? If he did suspect him, why not act on it? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])
**Perhaps Adama disregarded it as another attempt of Roslin's to discredit Baltar and retain the Presidency.

*Did Baltar's internal Six disappear at any point during the New Caprica year? If so, when and why? If so, did the events of her disappearance contribute to Baltar's regression?

*Why was it so easy for Adama to hide the collusion of the rigged election from the press, and why were there no consequences?
**They could've disguised it as a counting mistake, since Lt. Gaeta, Col.Tigh and Adama are the only ones who actually know what happened.

*If the Cylons really left the Twelve Colonies, leaving behind a nuked-out wasteland, what happened to all of the human captives in the [[Farms]]?

*Why have the Cylons returned after suggesting that they were willing to go their "separate ways"?

*Did the Cavils lie about the pursuit of humanity being a mistake? Or were they telling the truth?

*Will the Cylons resume their pursuit of the Fleet?

*How many people are left in the Fleet? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Have the remaining ships in the defense fleet been armed during the past year?

*Will the Adamas resort to Cain's tactic of conscripting civilians to fill the gaps?

*What happened between Apollo and Starbuck? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*What led to Starbuck's reconciliation with Col. Tigh? The two had been in conflict since the [[Miniseries]], what led them to bury the hatchet and become the close friends they now appear to be?
**Perhaps they realized they have a positive influence on each other: Tigh managed to taunt Starbuck back on her feet, and Starbuck confronted Tigh with his drinking problem in early Season 1, which resulted in Tigh making an attempt to quit, and at least managing to keep it under relative control.

*Has it become public knowledge that Baltar killed [[Crashdown]] on [[Kobol]]? Now that Chief and Cally are Baltar's open adversaries they could attempt to use this information against him.

*When Adama informs Baltar that the nuke used to blow up ''[[Cloud 9]]'' was probably stolen from Baltar's lab, why is he not suspicious about the fact that Baltar never reported that it was missing? Had it really been stolen from his lab, he would surely notice.
**One could argue that a man doesn't have much time to spot missing objects when he's running for President.
**Also, the Doral copy that blew himself up was probably heading for Baltar's lab. After that a break-in in the same lab should come as no surprise.
***The thing Adama should be suspicious about, is that the (alleged) thief didn't blow it right there on Galactica, but chose to blow up Cloud 9 instead.

*Are the Cylons that appear at the end representative of the whole Cylon race, or are they a faction that broke off after the two "Cylon Heroes" began to speak out against the war on the humans?

*If it is true that the Cylons now believe the attack on humanity was a mistake, is the occupation on New Caprica viewed by the Cylons as an act of mercy and kindness vs. oppression from the human perspective? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Could it be the intent of the Cylons to actually help the colonization of New Caprica, helping with the construction of infrastructure, new homes, etc., in order to make up for the holocaust? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])
**If the Cylons intend to help, that would be consistent with Cavil's comment that the Cylon path to enlightenment is to be "the best machines the universe has ever seen." The purpose of a machine is arguably to assist human beings. On the other hand, the Cylons, if they are here to help, are presumably intending to do so in a highly authoritarian fashion.
***Could the Cylons be wanting to maintain control over the Colonials so that in some future the Colonials would not be able to return and exact revenge on the Cylons?
**Could the Cylons be fortifying New Caprica to protect the humans from hostile Cylons? There should still be some, that Number Three in "Downloaded" was pretty fanatical, and if the political winds have changed as they so often do...
***Is there a Cylon civil "cold" war?
****Could the occupation of New Caprica be a compromise between pro-human and anti-human factions, with war breaking out between them after it fails?

== Analysis ==
*According to Ron Moore's podcast, the events of "One Year Later" are real and were meant to solidify to the audience that the show is taking a path that cannot be reversed. In order to make the colonization of New Caprica real, Moore felt that the show would need to jump ahead in a span of year to show that indeed Baltar has followed through with his political promise.

*The events of the Cylon invasion of New Caprica parallel the Nazi invasion of France, with the fleet's escape a parallel to the Allied evacuation of Dunkirk and Baltar's surrender a parallel to Petain's surrender. If the parallel continues, Baltar will establish a puppet regime under Cylon rule akin to [[Wikipedia:Vichy France|Vichy France]] while Colonials still loyal to humanity will establish a resistance movement. Ron Moore has actually said in the podcast for this episode that it is inspired by Vichy France.

*Baltar's arrogance seems to have led to corrupt rule during his year on New Caprica; he replaces Roslin's modest desk with a more elaborate one, replaces the population count whiteboard with a portrait of himself, and keeps a harem aboard the grounded ''Colonial One''.

*After a year, everyone still lives in tents. Shortages of medicine abound, the military is of no use, and labor conditions are apparently intolerable. Baltar's administration is apparently as incompetent as Roslin feared, when she said he was ridiculously unqualified and had no idea how to be president.
**It is not clear whether these conditions are the result of administrative incompetence or the inherent difficulties of colonizing a marginally habitable planet.
***Of course, it was Baltar's idea to settle on a marginally habitable planet in the first place.
****Tory Foster points out that Baltar was winning the election because he was "holding out hope for breathing real air, growing real food, sleeping in a bed instead of a bunk. Living in a house instead of a ship"; hopefully the irony of this wasn't lost on Baltar voters who even a full year later are sleeping in hammocks and living in tents.

*It's ironic that the obligations of duty keep Lee Adama aboard ''Pegasus'' while everyone else goes planet-side. He is a reserve officer, and promised to build his pilots a bar as soon as they found a habitable planet.
**It's possible the bar ''was'' built.

*In the podcast for "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" Moore commented on how everyone assumed that ''Pegasus'' would be destroyed by the end of the episode, and thus he thought it would be a good twist to keep ''Pegasus'' alive as another ship in the Fleet. Speculators mistakenly assumed that the nuke that Baltar gave to Gina in "[[Epiphanies]]" would be used to destroy ''Pegasus'' (keeping in tune with the assumed destruction of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series']] ''[[Pegasus (TOS)|Pegasus'']]).

*Twenty-nine people died between this episode and the preceding one? One or two Raptors were lost, and some Marines died on Caprica, but that doesn't seem high enough.
**It's possible they took out all of the people who left in the Raptors because they were not a part of the fleet at the end of the previous episode
***Starbuck remained in the count during her time on Caprica at the beginning of Season 2. When she and Helo returned to the fleet in "[[Home, Part I]]," the count only rose by one.
**Perhaps more people died during the attack on Caprica than shown.
***Yet another possibility is the inclusion of the Caprica survivors in the count to offset many of the losses that had incurred in the rescue mission.
***Although they didn't actually talk about the losses, there was a shot of a wounded person being taken away on a stretcher after the Raptors returned from the [[Caprica]] [[SAR]] mission.
***There may have been a series of election-related riots or murders.

*The year gap for the Cylons to find the fleet at first seems odd. However, it was stated in the previous episode that the interference from the gas cloud surrounding it would hide the planet fairly well. The Cylons were slightly over a light year away, according to the Number Five at the surrenderring. Searching something as large as the gas cloud likely is for a planet or fleet is, given the sensor range limitations, quite impressive to accomplish in months, even with general directional information from a light-year out. In addition, the radiation from the nuclear explosion aboard ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' would, of course, only be traveling at the speed of light. Even a less catastrophic attempt to communicate the Colonial's new location would be limited to the speed of light. Of course, once the location was pinpointed, an FTL jump by the Cylons to pounce would be instantaneous.
**Even though the Cylons were able to find New Caprica from the detected nuclear blast that occurred a year prior, the initial detection would have only pointed them in the right general direction. The planet would have moved from the location the initial blast occurred as it orbits around its sun. So the Cylons would only have been able to pinpoint the planet's last location a year prior. They could have used astronomical surveying to detect the planet or send their fleets to other positions using FTL ahead of the blast radiation to triangulate the nuclear blast. Then send recon elements to scout for the planet, which could have been the initial blips picked up by DRADIS by Lt. Dualla of recon Raiders. As soon as the planet was found the main Cylon Fleet would jump in from their staging areas.
***It is also clear that Gina truly did die in the nuclear explosion on ''Cloud 9'' as she would have been able to inform the Cylons of the whereabouts of the Fleet. This indicates that no new Resurrection Ship had been constructed and that Gina's suicidal thoughts finally prevailed. This may explain why she was willing to consummate her relationship with Baltar as it would be the last time she could be with him.
****If a transmission of Gina's consciousness is also bound by the speed of light, then the signal would radiate at the same speed as the radiation from the explosion. So the Cylons could have captured the signal at the same time they discover the radiation. A new Resurrection Ship could be in place by this time. So the [[#questions|above question]] of whether she was able to transmit when the hardware responsible for this was destroyed is still valid.
*****To contrast, as evidenced by "Downloaded", Cylon transmissions occur at a higher speed as Boomer's consciousness was able to be transmitted to the Resurrection Ship, and then transmitted to Caprica almost immediately after her death on ''Galactica.'' It also must be pointed out that ''Galactica'''s Fleet is well into deep space, light-years away from the Colonies. The time for Boomer's transmission to reach Caprica in "Downloaded" would have taken years if not hundreds of years if the speed was limited to the speed of light.
******Her consciousness might have been downloaded into a nearby Resurrection Ship, which then jumped into Caprica orbit to deliver it there. It could also have been carried in an FTL-capable 'carrier ship' (which would be quite useful for the Cylons in some cases).
******Sharon could easily have been reborn on a Ressurection Ship in deep space and then travelled to Caprica in a small vessel like a Heavy Raider.
*****If her consciousness was indeed saved, why did it take over a year to find the planet and why was the radiation signature mentioned as the method for which the Cylons tracked the Fleet? Plus, please take into account how the Cylons had changed their warfare tactics after the Resurrection Ship was destroyed. No longer does one basestar engage the Fleet, instead a whole fleet of basestars will appear to minimize the risk of destruction and overwhelming the battlestars. In either case, it seems less likely that Gina survived, as it was also her expressed wish to commit suicide. Even if she was transmitted, would it not be more likely that she would have been "boxed" as her personality was highly unstable after the gang rapes on Pegasus?

*The population of New Caprica City is given as 39,192. There were just under 50,000 people in the Fleet before establishing the settlement, so that gives a figure of roughly 10,000 missing. It is uncertain how many were killed in the destruction of ''Cloud 9'' and surrounding Fleet ships, but this loss along with any births and deaths that have taken place during the year since the election, leaves very few military personnel in the Orbital Defense. This almost certainly means that both ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' will be extremely short on crew, as many military personnel will have been left on the planet. There was clearly no time to retrieve even selected members of the crews before the Fleet jumped.
**The figure may not necessarily be 10,000 missing, but those who are not part of New Caprica City's population. The figure of 10,000 is spread amongst those remaining up in orbit with the fleet's remaining ships, out in independent, peripheral, or small settlements not part of New Caprica City proper, and casaulties.
**Watching the Fleet jump in slow-motion, you can count approximately 19 ships, which also gives a rough impression of the reduced size of the Fleet. Other ships, including ''Colonial One'' and some Raptors, are landed on New Caprica and have presumably fallen into the hands of the Cylons.
**It is not explicitly said that all members of the New Caprica colony reside in New Caprica City. There may be outlying settlements, though none are named. One reason for this would simply be as a safeguard to keep a single nuclear strike from wiping out all of the fleet survivors.
***Baltar's surrender may demonstrate prudence uncharacteristic of him, or simply be a matter of self-preservation.

*Any "industrial" vessels — such as the mining ships, tanker ships, repair ships, agricultural ships — would have landed on the planet and been debarked, dismantled, or converted to form the foundation for industrial / production efforts. Some of the vessels in the fleet that left [[Ragnar Anchorage]] weren't designed for prolonged interstellar journeys, and were basically running on a hope and a prayer, and would have been rendered promptly upon finding a more permanent home. The nineteen-or-so ships seen are, more than likely, the last space-worthy vessels in the fleet that are not needed (or capable of landing) planet-side.
**After a year, people are still living in tents and using landed ships as buildings, so it doesn't look like much has been dismantled or converted into raw production. Other than the miners, who are apparently extremely unhappy at how things have been run, we see little evidence of industry or production over the year.

*Apparently, Thrace's comments about Lee Adama and Dualla have taken their toll on their relationship. Whether the comments escalated is unknown, but, from Dualla's expression of annoyance when she hands the receiver to Adama when Thrace calls, it is clear that the three never reconciled with each other.

*The Six and Eight that are part of the Cylon delegation that greets Baltar's cabinet are almost certainly [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|"Boomer" Valerii]]. This is implied from Six's reaction upon seeing Baltar and her intimation that she knew who Baltar was. The two are also wearing the exact same clothes as in "[[Downloaded]]."

*In the Season 3 trailer that followed the end of the episode, Six narrates, saying that humanity has finally surrendered and the war is over. According to Six, the Cylons can finally fulfill their "''true destiny''" and take care of humanity. They desire to show humanity the "''glory of peace''," mercy; like God, their mercy can only be matched by their power and complete control. So apparently, the war heroes have indeed changed the Cylons' prejudices toward humans, but unfortunately this also means that the Cylons believe that the only way to care for humanity is to control it.
**This narrative sounds more like Baltar's internal Six (superior, controlling, zealous) than Caprica-Six (more of a people person).

== Notes ==
* According to Ron Moore's podcast, although the Sci-Fi Channel was willing to air this episode as a 90-minute special, it had to be heavily edited down for international distribution; outside of the United States, viewers will only see a 1 hour version of the episode, which Moore regards as "almost incomprehensible". Many plot threads, such as the entire Cally/Tyrol subplot, were completely removed from the one hour version. This may not be the case in the UK however as Skyone (the channel that broadcasts the show in that country) previously showed the full 90 minute version of Stargate SG1 episode 'Threads' and may well do the same for this episode.
**In the UK, Sky One did indeed show the episode as a 90 minute special.
**In Latin America, as aired by TNT LA, the 90 minute special was shown as well.

*Admiral Adama watches [[Pyramid]] games and was a fan of the [[Picon Panthers]].

*In RDM's podcast for the previous episode, he said that in early drafts of this special 90 minute long episode, the writers actually tried to make it a 2 hour special, but this was soon dropped (these times are including commercials).
*The election board appears to have a definitive list of the names of all of the ships in [[The Fleet (RDM)]]. Not all of them are clearly visible, but this would seem to indicate that the writers do have an actual list that they get new ship names from.

*The framed photo of President Roslin and [[Billy Keikeya]] was still on Roslin's desk during the election.

*When Roslin "won" the rigged election results, Roslin received 24,265 votes, while Baltar recieved 22,266. This means that the eligible voters in the Fleet number at least 46,531. In the podcast, RDM explains that he quickly came up with these numbers, to try to reflect roughly how many survivors are below the voting age.

*Toward the end of the episode, President Baltar refers to a government body called the "People's Council". This may be the proportionally elected lower house mentioned by RDM in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 blog post] on January 30, 2005.

*[[Hera]] is seen on New Caprica in the same white cradle that Baltar had a vision of her being in in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]] and "[[Scattered]]". According to RDM's podcast it's actually the exact same cradle.

*Tyrol's union speech is an almost word for word quote of Mario Savio's address during the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in 1964. According to Ron Moore and David Eick in the podcast, they even got permission from Savio's widow to use it (even though, due to the way copyright laws work from back then, they could have just used it without permission, they felt they should get it). As a result, it's even listed in the credits: "Mario Savio speech excerpted courtesy of: Lynne Hollander Savio". Actor Aaron Douglas (Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]) actually studied film of Savio, so all of the hand gestures Tyrol makes when he gives the speech are gestures that Savio actually used.

*Baltar's portrait of himself does not have the 'cut corners' as seen in almost all other papers and photos in the show. Neither do the other framed pictures in the presidential office aboard Colonial One, nor the papers seen in the classroom on New Caprica.

*[[:Image:Wtfk1tn.jpg|Visible]] on the blackboard of Roslin's school are the French verbs ''aller'', ''avoir'', and ''être''. The Colonials appear to just speak English, so this might be a goof by the set designers trying to make it look more like a generic school.
**Not necessarily, as French has appeared in the show before. In "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", Six uses the French word for momentum or surge, ''élan''. In "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", Captain [[Cole Taylor|Cole "Stinger" Taylor]] uses the phrase ''esprit de corps''.
**There are also [[:Image:Chinese_characters.png|Chinese ideograms]] in an episode of the "[[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance|Resistance]]" webisodes.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''After being uncovered as a Cylon upon on arrival from Caprica:''
:'''Brother Cavil''': Well, this is an awkward moment…. Yes, he's right, I'm a Cylon. And I have a message. So…take me to your leader.

*''After arrest on Galactica:''
:'''Brother Cavil''': Would you mind telling me what's going on? I'm not a frakking Cylon, I'm not…(sees the other Cavil from Caprica in the cell)…oh. Well, okay then.

*''On Caprica during the fight with the Cylons:''
:'''Anders:''' You got any great ideas in that military brain of yours?
:'''Starbuck:''' Do the same thing we always do; fight 'em 'till we can't.

*''After the Cylons occupy New Caprica:''
:'''Tyrol:''' What do you want to do now, Captain?
:'''Starbuck:''' The same thing we always do. Fight them until we can't.

== Official Statements ==

From the official site (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/):
When Baltar wins the vote, Roslin considers stealing the election because she believes he is a Cylon collaborator.

RDM's blog ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/03/#a000409 March 28, 2006]) gives details. (''Due to article size requirements, the blog entry is not reproduced here.'')

=== Interviews ===

* '''[[Paul Campbell]] discussess his thoughts on the story post-"[[Sacrifice]]":'''

:'''MB/TSFW:''' So what do you think about the story after you left, and the trouble [[Mary McDonnell|Mary]]’s [[Laura Roslin|character]] got herself into? After your [[Tory Foster|replacement]] came in she kind of had a fall there. Do you think that would have happened if you were still there to watch her back?

: '''Paul:''' You know, I don’t know if they could have. [[Billy Keikeya|Billy]] had so much integrity, that under his watch, I don’t think that would have happened. And maybe he would have had to step down, and Mary would have gone about that route with someone else. But I don’t think if he would have been in the picture, that would have gone down. Because that’s some shady crap, and I don’t think it would have cut it. We obviously butted heads on a few things like that in the past. In particular when I ended up leaving her at the ship. As it turned out, I had another pilot to go shoot. As it turned out, it was more my schedule that didn’t work out, but it worked in the writing. But no, I don’t think that would have flown had I been in the picture. So I don’t know what they would have done. I’m sure that was the story line from the beginning, but how they would have worked me into it, I don’t really know. [http://mediablvd.com/magazine/index.php?option=com_magazine&func=show_article&id=84 MediaBlvd]

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as Specialist [[Cally]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Aaron Doral]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
*[[Alisen Down]] as [[Jean Barolay]]
*[[Erica Cerra]] as [[Maya]]
*[[imdb:nm0718759|Winston Rekert]] as Priest
*[[imdb:nm0443286|David Kaye]] as [[James McManus]]

{{episode list (RDM season 2)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Legt eure Bürden nieder, Teil II]]

Talk:Humanoid Cylon/Archive4

2006-10-30T03:18:09Z

Straycat0: /* The 5 remaining agents */

{{archive-header
| archivenumber = 01
| number = 1
| start = April 2, 2005
| end = January 23, 2006
| items = {{archive-item|01|12 Cylon or 12 Humano-Cylon models?}} {{archive-item|01|Same, yet Different?}} {{archive-item|01|Origin of the Term "Humano-Cylon"?}} {{archive-item|01|Hybrids/Sharon's daughter article?}} {{archive-item|01|Order of Models}} {{archive-item|01|Re: Adama and Gaeta being ruled out as "Humano-Cylons"}} {{archive-item|01|Ellen Tigh}} {{archive-item|01|Cylon Series Revision}} {{archive-item|01|Did Boomer really know the count of infiltrators}} {{archive-item|end=Y|01|List of people who are ruled out as Cylons?}}
|}}

== Replacement and retirement of article title ==

:''This discussion's origin originated in [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions#Replacement and retirement of the term "Humano-Cylon"|the Standards and Conventions talk page]], where you can find the original content.''

Per the discussion in the above link, I plan to move this article to [[Cylon agent]], as it is the most commonly used term to describe the humanoid Cylon models. "Humano-Cylon" will redirect here, and we will need to scour for other terms to redirect as well. This name is sufficiently canonical that it is unlikely that further debate is required. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:58, 14 February 2006 (EST)

:Go for it. Though with an article title of "Cylon agent", it would be great to have a screen capture of the file on Laura's desk that has that wording on it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:04, 14 February 2006 (EST)

:I may just spend $2 on iTunes to get just that. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:14, 14 February 2006 (EST)

::Move completed; no Big Thang. Summary subarticle in Cylon series pages also updated. Please update any pages for old terminology when appropriate. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:33, 14 February 2006 (EST)

: Am I right in saying that all references to Humano-Cylon should be changed to Cylon agent> --[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 08:12, 6 March 2006 (CST)
::That's correct. We're going with "Cylon agent" since the only evidence indicating "Humano-Cylon" (see below) may have been doctored by the Cylons to throw us off... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:19, 6 March 2006 (CST)

:::Just to clarify; they made the picture below as a joke. Really, we discussed it on our Conventions page, and "human-cylon" seemed too much like describing the Hybrid, and hasn't gained much outside use, so we opted for something else. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:05, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Known Cylon Agents ==
That pic is AWESOME! It fits the section so well that I would normally suspect that it had been photoshopped (if I hadn't already seen it in the show). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:00, 15 February 2006 (EST)
:Perhaps you moved the article too soon...
:I'll likely delete this image soon. I just had the idea of Photoshopping the folder after the preceding post. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 18:19, 15 February 2006 (EST)
:Photoshop: Suitable tool, or instrument of Satan? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:37, 15 February 2006 (EST)

== Naming Convention ==

As of "[[Downloaded]]" we now finally know some other Model numbers besides Number Six: "D'anna Biers" is '''Number Three''', "Aaron Doral" is '''Number Five''', and "Sharon 'Boomer' Valerii" is '''Number Eight'''.

In light of this, should we change the title of some, or all, of their character articles to read "Number Three", etc. like for Number Six? Because apparently, among themselves the Cylons never actually use the fake human names some used as spys, or indeed refer to themselves by name at all. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 02:59, 25 February 2006 (EST)

I would think that the unfortunately named Number Two is a pretty thankless job. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:00, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes, where those numbers are known. I broached the subject on [[Talk:Sharon Valerii]] and am currently awaiting a little more feedback before we go ahead with the move. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:07, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Do the Cylons tend to look out for Number One? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:09, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Number One is not a number, he is a man. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:10, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:A free man? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:24, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::I agree with changing the title of ALL articles referring to the mainstream model, making two new for D'anna and Aaron (the media models) like we did for the sharons and sixes.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 25 February 2006

When did "we" start calling them "Galactica-Boomer", "Caprica-Boomer", "Pegasus-Six", etc? You see, Televesionwithoutpity.com does make up and popularize terms like this....but I'm not sure if they STARTED using it, or if they TOOK UP using it from some reviewer or the messageboards. I seriously think this is one of those Stand Alone Complex things; we all just more or less independently, from the grassroots up, got the idea to do that. Anyone? --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:49, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:Pretty much. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:03, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::I generally compel the proper use of "Boomer" to the Galactica model only, as she is the copy that actually served. ''No one'' in episodes have called the Caprica copy by that name, and things are confusing enough. "Caprica-Valerii" or "Galactica-Valerii" (or Boomer) is better. Otherwise, yes, we have to make things up until we get an official term, but we should be consistent and precise about it. ''Never'' use Sharon in any context--use of character first names only is against wiki convention in episode summaries. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:19, 25 February 2006 (EST)
:::Actually, Baltar called Caprica-Sharon "Boomer" at the end of Home, part 2. But what does he know?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:55, 9 March 2006 (EST)

== Question: a Cylon agent transfers its consciousness... ==

I just started watching BSG about a week ago and im only part way through season 2, but I'm thinking isn't there a way for the Galactica crew to stop the cylon agents they kill from transmiting their consciousness? Cant they put the agent in a room with thick metal walls to stop the signal, or put their bodies into a woodchipper, or something similar, so whatever system in the body that transmits will be destroyed? In season one they just tossed the agent out an airlock, they didn't even try to stop him. I guess they really haven't explained yet how it is even possible for the agent's body to come up with enough energy to transmit their entire consciousness in an undetectable signal instantly across several light years. Maybe they'll get to it in a future episode, including the ones I haven't seen yet. Right now, its very magical fairies. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 17:07, 9 March 2006 (CST)

: It comes up a bit later. Specifically, right after the mid-season cliff-hanger of Season 2. Not ''all'' your questions will be answered, but it becomes less magical. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:09, 10 March 2006 (CST)

== Grace Park Reveals Cylon Secrets.... ==
MediaBlvd's interview with Grace Park was releasd in the full today, revealing a few more things about the nature of the Cylons that had not been released before. A lot of things are Park's own point of view, but she does mention a few interesting facts she read in the "Cylon Handout". Some of these facts include:

:" Because Cylons were created in the form of humans, and humans were created in God’s image, and Cylons want to be close to God, they can actually choose - but some models more likely than others tend to eat rather than just taking in nutrients. We just learned all this, I didn’t even know it, but taking in nutrients, I think through the skin"

:"There would be specific ports in the Cylon base ship that they could do this, and they can also do that with information."

:"- it wasn’t a very specific jack, like your phone jack in the wall. Nothing like that in her arm."

:"A little bit of both of that. Within one model, the different bodies can share memories, but within that model only. Now I use the words ‘CAN share memories,’ because it’s not like they all automatically share them. I’m under the understanding that you can choose to upload, and you can choose to download information."

:"- that the Cylons that we’ve known so far are programmed not even to think about the last five."

These are the actual facts she mentions, amidst her opinions, but what I posted were the solid facts. The last one had already been mentioned before, but this comment clarified that it's not that they don't know who they are, they just don't think about them.

There are also some other interesting tidbits in there (such as why exactly the Naked Sharons let themeselves die) which may help other articles.

I wanted to ask before posting any of this information, it's all solid and concise, but should we nonetheless abstain from putting in the bits we got (because we have nothing else and it would prove to be tantalizing). I think we should put it in, since they are actual facts from the new "Cylon Bible", but I wanted to pass it here so that you can judge on where to put them and how to word them. (Cuz I suck at actually adding it on the article, so I'd rather share the info and let someone else do the fine tuning on the article itself)

For the full interview: http://www.mediablvd.com/magazine/Magazine-Home/MBMag_20060420145.html

--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17:22 09 May 2006

:That's kind of how I always rationalized they must share info; not between models, not a hive mind, they CAN but don't alaways. This "nutrient bath" thing is new and intruiging though. "This form brings us closer to God"; yeah I was already theorizing on this after that comment in KLG II that that's why they wanted to appear humanlike. Anyway, great to get some more or less confirmation on those musings/speculation. ***I don't know why, but some people treated it as a "oh my God, massive spoiler" that the 7 known Cylon models might not consciously think of who the unrevealed ones are. I mean, it doesn't actually affect the plot or ANY of our speculation so far; always assumed they had some sort of saftey feature like that for secrecy. '''I wonder: was this "Cylon Bible" RECENTLY written?''' The [[Series Bible]] was written in the break between the Miniseries and season one. Of course, they could have had these Cylon points as running ideas in the writer's room, but is this new, written down 10 page-ish long "Cylon Bible" something new she got? Context. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:26, 9 May 2006 (CDT)

::It seems the series bible did not containt detailed information on the Cylon Characters beyond the basics, the new bible is specifically made for Cylons I think, probably detailing some history, both personal and such, and the kind of things that may help an actor understand who/what they are playing.

Also, this nutrient bath may be the reason we saw the Sharons naked in KLG2, rather than the Cylons being nudists., and maybe that's also why that part of the Basestar is organic, because it feeds the Ships and the Agents. Guess we'll know in Season 3 --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]]

:::Well I always thought they were naked just because they were "fresh off the assembly line" or "in storage" or whatever; like Terminator. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 16:09, 10 May 2006 (CDT)

::::Maybe, but with the Resurrection Ship.... --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]]10 May 2006

So wouldn't the Grace Park interview indicate that the evidence "against" Baltar being a Cylon presented in Downloaded is pretty much bupkis? If the agents arent supposed to think of him as an agent, they'd call him a human. In fact, Baltar's behavior is so selfish it borders on cliche. It would seem to me that he would fit the "selfish asshole" archetype of humanity pretty damned well. --[[User:Number Thirteen|Number Thirteen]] 01:04, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

== telepathic abilities ==

When Sharon met here "sisters" in the basestar, she could hear their voices. Could that mean, that she has telepathic abilities? Or possibly a kind of relaying made this possible? -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 12:06, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
:Hi, Tirkon. We really don't have any information into the actual manner in which agents transfer low level data (specifically, their memories). They aren't like the Borg; they haven't a collective consciousness. For Boomer to "hear" their voices may suggest that she (as a sleeper) was hearing this low level data transfer for the first time, and being on a basestar may have exacerbated this ability. Agents very likely share data from a collective knowledgebase (since models of the same kind seem to know much of what another model knows, to a point). Since Cylon agents are still constructs, the concept of telepathic abilities suggest implausible things that attribute more biological (even spiritual) concepts to these constructs that probably don't apply; a machine can definitely transmit and receive data (something proven in "Downloaded") so this is the best way to consider Boomer's realization, in my opinion. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:22, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

== humanoid cylons stronger than humans ==
I think, it is confirmed, that the humanoid cylons are stronger than humans. I.e. confirmed by the fights Starbuck-Number Six, Starbuck-Leoben and William Adama-Leoben. In particular during the fight Starbuck-Number Six Six throws Starbuck as hard as a human never could. During "Downloaded" Six slays Number Three with a huge piece of concrete, which never could be handled so easy by a human. And this piece must have bean very heavy, because the head of Number Three was mud after that. -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 12:43, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
:That's generally true. While their bodies are still just as vulnerable to injury as a human body, their strength is definitely greater, although we can't state by how much. We can assume that they are strong enough to pick up a human of similar size, but are not strong enough to bend steel bars (otherwise captured agents could escape their cages). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:57, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
::''>We can assume that they are strong enough to pick up a human of similar size'' ... and throw it about four meters. -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 13:13, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
:::And there seems to be a little disaccord. If one is strong enough for doing that, he also must be heavy enough for doing that (balance weight). That is opposite to the sex between Baltar and Six, when Six was lying on him (the read vertebral column in miniseries). -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 13:39, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

== humanoid cylons = agents? ==
You always talk here from the humoid cylons as agents. Is that realy true? Are they ALL!! agents? Possibly the word "agent" does not have the same meaning in Englisch and German. -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 12:32, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
:The term "Cylon Agent" came [[:Image:Cylonagentdossier.jpg|from the show]]. See the [[Cylon_agent#_note-name|name note]] at the bottom of the article. So it's mostly a matter of trying to be "canonical" than trying to imply any sort of affiliation or loyalty. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:50, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
::Aaaaaah! Thanks for that claricifation. :o) In the german Battlestar version the term "agent" is not as common. German Wikipedia points out a difference between the english and german use of term "agent". Thus this could be a matter for that. Further the view of some cylons ("the heros in "Download") has changed. Thus in german Battlestar Wiki I have used "humanoid cylon" instead of "cylon agent". And with you comment I am safe, that this dicision was adequate. Sorry for cannot beeing as precise as I would. But I am not a native english speaker. -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 13:23, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Maybe its just me but i always loved the term [[Humano-Cylon]] ^_^ --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 13:30, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Not a problem! Looks like everything worked out. Also, bear in mind that the standards and conventions of the particular wiki should rule for its articles. That is to say, the German Wiki's standards and conventions should govern the articles at the German wiki. Don't let the [[BW:SC|English version]] restrict you at all. As long as you're consistent with your own rules there the German reader/editor will have a more standard/uniform experience. (Though you may want to update [[:de:Battlestar Wiki:Standards und Konventionen|that page ]] once you've established new conventions). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:34, 5 September 2006 (CDT)
::::''>want to update that page'' At present we are just two translaters. And we are still going to built up the structere and translate the episodes and the most important characters. At this state such conventions are not the point. ;o) And the human cylons was until now the only point, what was a little problematic for me. Thus I wanted discuss this with the well-versed people here. And this was helpful :o) -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 13:55, 5 September 2006 (CDT)

== Unseen cylon agent (miniseries) ==

In the miniseries, Number Six mentions to Baltar that she is meeting someone (26:35 into the miniseries) when they are walking in public prior to the attack. She leaves Baltar and immediately meets with an unseen person (27:12), remarking "It's about time, wondered when you'd get here". This person can only be a cylon - but they never appear on screen. Who could it be?

--[[User:Cfuxe|cfuse]] 06:48, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

: Anyone. It could also be just another very human bloke Six had contact with during her time on Caprica. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:10, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

== Cylon naming and instancing ==

Cylons agents (including sleeper agents) appear to be able to distinguish different instances of the same cylon model from one and other without any difficulty. In Downloaded, 'Sharon' seems to have no difficulty in identifying individual cylons apart, despite the fact that all cylons of a given model are visually identical. In addition, she is admonished for using her name because it is a vestige of her human identity and presumably redundant in cylon society.

--[[User:Cfuxe|cfuse]] 06:57, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
: Honestly, we don't know how they do it, and I doubt that it'll ever be explained in the series. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:13, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

== Centurions ==

It's been added that Cylon Centurions can't tell the difference between copies of the same model, but that's not what Adama said. He said that they can't tell one humanoid Cylon (ex: Sharon) apart from any other humanoid Cylon. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:51, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

== A word about Number Three ==

The entry about Number Three says, that of all the Cylon agent models revealed to viewers, the Colonials are not yet aware that D'anna Biers is a Cylon agent as of the season two finale, "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II." 
Oh, c'mon. In "Downloaded" D'Anna, along with other Cylons, was clearly seen by Samuel Anders. In "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I" Anders arrives on Galactica - did you think that he hasn't told the others about what he saw on Caprica? The moment Anders was rescued by Starbuck&Co., the true identity of D'Anna was no longer a secret (hence her presence on New Caprica).-- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 17:29, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

:Hi, Spike. Aside from the article now being out of date, the specific clarification you're missing is "of all the Cylon agents revealed to viewers, the ''members of [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]'' are not aware that D'anna Biers is a Cylon as of "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II."" ''Galactica's'' members and her Fleet may still be unaware that the one named D'Anna is a Cylon (but has likely received intel from their Raptor deployments in Season 3). Anders (although a Colonial) was not part of the Fleet until the end of LDYB and may have not seen the documentary that Biers created, thus not being able to inform the Fleet of yet another Cylon. It is likely that he does inform them; we as viewers aren't enlightened to this until the obvious events on New Caprica where all known agents are revealed to them. (Please be sure to sign your comments; place a couple of dashes and four tilde symbols (~). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:32, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

== Cylons as the Lords of Kobol ==

Given the 12 models of Cylon Agents, it seems possible that they represent the 12 Lords of Kobol. Many of the models seem to have traits associated with the Olympians. I’m not suggesting that the Cylons actually are the gods themselves, but copies of the gods. They may or may not know that they represent the gods. A list of the Olympians matches fairly well with what we know about some of the Cylons. (In particular, the Number 6 / Aphrodite connection is almost undeniable.) Some agents who we know less about (Simon, Cavil) are a looser fit.

'''Poseidon''', God of the Sea. Holds influence among the Olympians, but is greedy and quarrelsome. - Cavil? ||
'''Hades''', God of the Underworld. Unpitying, always in control of his domain. Abducted a woman to be his wife – Leoben ||
'''Hera''', Zeus’s wife. Holds great influence, constantly schemes. - Number 3 ||
'''Ares''', God of War. A brutal murderer, but also a coward. - Number 5 ||
'''Athena'''. A fierce soldier and protector of her people. - Number 8 ||
'''Aphrodite''', Goddess of Beauty. Holds great power over men. - Number 6 ||
'''Hephaestus''', God of the Forge. Skills are mental, and creation, not a fighter. - Simon

This leaves Zeus, Hestia, Apollo, Hermes, and Artemis as the remaining unknown Cylons. Does anyone else think there may be something to this, or have better fits for some agents? --[[User:PhoenixDreams|PhoenixDreams]] 14:24, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

: I've definitely considered the possibility that the Cylon Models and the Lords of Kobol are intimately connected for quite a while. The problem always was that the Greek Pantheon did not neatly end up with a dozen gods, so there was a fair amount of guess work for the what the remaining Lords of Kobol were. For example, I doubt Hestia will be one of them: she's a fairly obscure goddess. Demeter or Dionysus are more likely candidates.

: I really like some of the parallels you've come up with though. Aphrodite=Six was always the fairly obvious one, and I've considered Sharon as Athena. I quite like the parallels between Leoben and Hades. All of the other parallels you've come up with work. It's just that without knowing all of the Lords of Kobol and all of the models, and what roles they will ultimately play, it's hard to say exactly how everyone fits. Sure, at the moment Number Six seems to obviously be the Aphrodite of the Cylons, but with her obsession with childbirth, I sometimes wonder if she's destined to be Artemis. Not that she's especially virginal. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 14:52, 23 October 2006 (CDT)

== The 5 remaining agents ==
I think it is apparent that the function of the 5 remaining agents is different from the function of the 7 known agents (my analysis) since the 7 seem to be making decisions on both New Caprica and on the basestar about Baltar and the other 5 are not. Additionally, we have Aaron Douglas's speculation on their status and there is probably other evidence but I honestly haven't done any research on that. Is there enough beef behind this line of reasoning to say that it's not speculation on my part and is worthy of putting SOMETHING on the article page? --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 21:18, 29 October 2006 (CST)

Talk:Collaborators/Archive 1

2006-10-30T03:09:49Z

Straycat0: /* Nth Exodus */

==Dark==
I get a feeling this'll be Season 3's "Flesh and Bone." --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 19:21, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

That or a season 3 spin on [[Litmus]]. Either way, I'm looking forward to see what becomes of Jammer and Gaeta. --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 15:27, 22 October 2006 (CDT)

==Screenshots==
Anyone else check out the screenshots on the Sci Fi site? Did you notice that priest who is swearing in Roslin? He looks like the Lumberg character from the movie "Office Space." --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 00:17, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
:The actor you note from ''OfficeSpace'' is Gary Cole. The priest shown is not Cole. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:52, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
::Are there any screenshots available of that close shot of the survivor list, with the names? I meant to tape the episode but (dang it) missed it. Mainly I'm just after the names. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 06:20, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

== Friday Air - Server Idea Fix ==

Ok... this is my idea. Three hours before the episode, we sysop protect this page. Once the episode is aired/finshed on it's first round 9pm to 10pm, we unlock it. What this will do is keep the server queries down on the server before the mad rush. Talking with steelviper about this, he suggested we have three sub-pages off the episode guide, Summary, Questions, and Anylsis for people to work on during the episode. This will keep the conflicts down and the server in tip top shape. Before we unlock the main episode page.... we as sysops (Mop boys) would transfer the information from these pages to the guide and then kill the subpages. We need a {{tl|currently airing}} template to help with the links, but it be a start to keeping the server smooth after an episode airs. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:31, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:Part of me worries about locking users out, especially while the episode is airing. That might be confusing, and that's bound to be a peak time of contribution. On the other hand, if users can't access the page to begin with, then we're not in any better a position. If having subpages allows people to continue to contribute real-time with the episode, and with transclusions allowing the changes to be visible real-time, it might be a way to allow people the thrill of striking while the iron is hot without crushing the server. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:36, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

== Clues ==
I didn't tape the episode, but maybe someone who did might be able to tell...what rank insignia was Lee wearing when he met his father? --[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 02:37, 28 October 2006 (CDT)Dallan007
:It's obscured by a fold in Lee's uniform for a lot of the scene (he should really get on to his tailor about bringing in his uniform, since he's losing weight), but it '''looks''' like Commander rank insignia. It's definitely no less than Colonel (the circle in the centre is quite distinct). --[[User:Barry|Barry]] 05:48, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
::Yeah, I agree, it definitely appears to be a Commander's insignia. There's a distinct section ''behind'' the diamond with the colonial seal, ie the silver plate we see on the Commander pin. It'd help if someone has any relatively high-res caps, all I can get are 640x352 --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 09:48, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
::: There hasnt been a hi-def airing yet so thats the best we got atm :( --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 05:40, 29 October 2006 (CST)

== Resurrection ship reappears ==

Did anyone else notice that in at least one of the establishing shots of the Cylon fleet we see a resurrection ship, in addition to the basestars?

Also note the veritable swarms of raiders...

It looks like the Cylons have been busy cranking out new troops for a return to heavy battle. {{unsigned|Spidey3}}

::And since they have a new Resurrection Ship, coupled with the fact that the Cylons are again discriminating, for want of a better phrase, against humans... I'd say our rag-tag fleet has something to worry about ;) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 09:50, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
:::I count 5 Basestars and 1 Resurrection ship. Quite a force. I bet Lee Adama will be wishing he didn't use the Pegasus to play bumper cars when he sees that fleet..... -- [[User:Barry|Barry]] 12:04, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
:::I counted 6 Basestars surrounding the Resurrection Ship... [[User:Hmoul|Seattle Cylon]] 19:01, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

==The "third" time Six has used the "Don't make me angry, Gaius" threat==

Isn't it the second? I don't remember another one between Litmus and Collaborators. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:12, 29 October 2006 (CST)
: I think you may be right... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 14:08, 29 October 2006 (CST)

==Nth Exodus==
I've removed speculation along these lines several times now, as I find it completely absurd and unworthy of note:
:''More likely, the "First Exodus" was from Kobol, as the current population didn't escape the Colonies so much as be in transit during their destruction.''
However, other contributors seem intent on adding it back each time. I really don't think this is a reasonable line of speculation, but I'll stop deleting comments like this if other users think I should. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:57, 29 October 2006 (CST)
::Maybe it's a bit peculiar that they don't include the exodus from Kobol into their count, but I think it's clear that the first one is the original flight from the Twelve Colonies. Excluding that one would more weirder than exluding the Kobol one, which is 2000 years in the past after all and outside of everyone's experience --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:02, 29 October 2006 (CST)
:::The real indicator would be what their former dating system was based on. If they reset their year at the fall of the Colonies, then that would be the first Exodus, while if they kept counting from the escape from Kobol, then we could assume that would be the first Exodus. I don't recall them mentioning any hard dates before, though. --[[User:Larrik|Larrik]]
::::No, all we get are "Karl C. Agathon, Nth day on Caprica" during the first season, and a "189 days ago" in "Epiphanies". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:01, 29 October 2006 (CST)

== Zarek's reaction to Roslin's offer of VP ==
I didn' think there was enough to pose this question on the article page so I'm posing it here: Did anybody think that Zarek was honestly surprised by Roslin's offer? As in, he probably was looking for something less than that or if he was after VP, he didn't think that she would offer it right away? --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 21:09, 29 October 2006 (CST)