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The Twelve Colonies of Kobol

2009-12-18T21:01:24Z

Spidersense215: /* Virgon */

:''This article discusses the Twelve Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. See [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)]] for information on the Colonies of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]].''

[[Image:Home pt1-Kobol.jpg|left|thumb|[[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]], the ancient homeworld of humanity.]]
[[Image:Capricacitydaybreak1.jpg|right|thumb|[[Caprica City]].]]

Approximately 2,000 years prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], the last twelve tribes of [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] leave their planet<ref>According to dialogue from "[[Torn]]", "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" and "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]", the [[Thirteenth Tribe (RDM)|Thirteenth Tribe]] left Kobol some 2,000 years ''before'' the twelve tribes. The Scroll of [[Pythia]] is dated as written 3,600 years before the last exodus of Kobol, and chronicles the Thirteenth Tribe's exodus.</ref> over conflicts with their [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|gods]], as well as a "sort of calamity" <ref>As noted by [[Billy Keikeya]] in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]".</ref>.

The tribes settle on twelve worlds some distance away ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]). The tribes' namesakes and icons originally corresponded to the twelve signs of the ancient tribes, although these [[wikipedia:Zodiac|names]] drifted over time<ref>Flag matches with Colonies from "Encyclopedia Galactica." [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine]]. Feb./Mar. 2006: 50-55.</ref> ([[Home, Part II]]).
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The early Colonies lived (and fought) more as sovereign nations. Some (particularly Caprica) prospered, while others (such as Sagittaron and Aerelon) were often considered lessers. For peacetime labor forces as well as for wars between each other, humanity created the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. When these [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|early models]] rebelled, the Colonies unified their governments under the [[Articles of Colonization]] sometime before or during the [[Cylon War]] as a federal republic known as the '''Twelve Colonies of Kobol'''<ref>Note the difference between the name of the Original Series' counterpart, known as the [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)|the Twelve Colonies of ''Man'']].</ref>.

The official symbol of the Twelve Colonies is the [[Colonial seal]].

{{RDM twelve colonies series}}

==Star System==
The Twelve Colonies of Kobol are located in the star system Cyrannus.<ref>''Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine''; "Encyclopedia Galactica"; issue #3; page 51</ref>

In "''The Plan''", a [[Hybrid]] says "12 battles...3 stars", which some have taken has an implication that the twelve colonies are spread over three star systems. However, that is pure speculation. In addition, in a [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/#a000016 blog entry] Ronald D. Moore states that all twelve worlds are situated within one system, in keeping with the Original Series. ''Battlestar Galactica'' co-executive producer and writer [[Jane Espenson]] wrote on Twitter that the system is a star cluster with "some shared orbits." However, this has not been confirmed on-screen.<ref>http://twitter.com/CapricaSeven/status/5210336446</ref>

Caprica, Scorpia ([[Razor]]), Picon (The Plan), Canceron (The Plan) and Tauron (Razor) have been shown as actual planets. The surfaces of Caprica, Tauron (Razor), Gemenon, Picon, Libran, and Virgon (The Plan) have been seen. No other descriptions are available of the other colonies in terms of their celestial type: Minor planet, moon, or major planet. However, in the [[Miniseries]], [[Elosha]] states that the tribes settled onto "12 worlds." While the use of "worlds" is ambiguous, the Colonies are noted as independent, habitable celestial bodies. In the [[Miniseries]], [[William Adama|Adama]] reports that nuclear detonations were reported on the planets Aerilon, Picon, Sagittarion and Gemenon, saying that at least those four Colonies were planets

The Twelve Colonies had approximately 50 billion inhabitants prior to the Cylon attack ([[A Disquiet Follows My Soul]])<ref>An early draft Miniseries script notes a census count of 12 billion individuals. However, the aired information of Kara Thrace's approximation in "A Disquiet Follows My Soul" should be taken as the correct value.</ref> and maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems.<ref>[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 Sourced from a January 30, 2005] blog entry by [[Ronald D. Moore]] on Sci-Fi.com.</ref> Economic activity, such as [[tylium]] mining also occurred outside of the immediate vicinity around the Colonies ([[Hero]]).

==Aerilon==

{{mainarticle|Aerilon}}

[[Image:ColonialColors7.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and symbol of Aerilon]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Aries (constellation)|Aries]]

Aerilon was primarily an agricultural world. It was considered to be the "food basket" of the Twelve Colonies. Despite this, Aerilon was ranked as one of the poorest members of the Colonies.

[[Gaius Baltar]] is a native of Aerilon, although he adopted the culture and mannerisms of Caprica, presumably to increase his standing in society ([[Dirty Hands]]).

=== Natives ===

* [[Julius Baltar]]
* [[Sherry Bennett]]
* [[Sekou Hamilton]]
* [[Sharon Valerii]] (alleged, actually a [[humanoid Cylon]])
* [[Saul Tigh]] (alleged, actually a [[humanoid Cylon]])
* [[Socinus]]

=== Notes ===

* The spelling of this colony is sometimes inconsistent in the Re-imagined Series' official cast and crew notes and episode content. The colony is spelled "Aerilon" in the episodes "[[Home, Part I]]" and "[[The Son Also Rises]]" in official Colonial documentation. Battlestar Wiki chooses to use the more consistently used spelling of "Aerilon" which mainly appears on both props (such as the nameplates for the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]]) and behind the scenes publications.
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==Aquaria==
[[Image:ColonialColors12.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and symbol of Aquaria]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Aquarius (constellation)|Aquarius]]

Aquaria was widely known for its vast oceans ([[The Plan]]). Its [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]] delegate, [[Miksa Burian]], votes for [[Tom Zarek]] in the vice-presidential elections ([[Colonial Day]]).
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==Canceron==
[[Image:ColonialColors9.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and symbol of Canceron]]
[[Image:Canceron.png|thumb|left|Canceron from orbit ([[The Plan]]).]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Cancer (constellation)|Cancer]]
[[Image:Robin Wenutu.jpg|thumb|right|120px|Wenutu on ''[[Cloud 9]]''.]]
[[Robin Wenutu]] is the Canceron delegate to the first [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]].

The colony was well known for its beaches and was briefly seen from orbit during "The Plan" as having a large coastal metropolis. The Number Six Cylon [[Shelly Godfrey]] was travelling on a passenger transport in orbit over Canceron just as the bombardment of the planet began ([[The Plan]]).

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==Caprica==
{{mainarticle|Caprica (RDM)}}
[[Image:ColonialColors3.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and symbol of Caprica]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[w:Capricornus|Capricorn]]

Caprica is a large blue-green planet and was the the center of Colonial civilization. According to [[Gaius Baltar]], Caprica was the seat of politics, culture, art, science, and learning. It was also one of the wealthier colonies ([[Dirty Hands]]).

Big cities on the planet were [[Caprica City]] and [[Delphi]].

6,250 people from Caprica join the [[Laura Roslin faction]] ([[Home, Part I]]). The overall Caprican survivor population, possibly significantly greater, is unknown (see analysis [[The Fleet (RDM)#Demographics|here]]).

===Notes===
*All events of Colonial life prior, during or after the Cylon attack (particularly in seasons 1 and 2) outside of the rag-tag [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] was set on Caprica. No other colony's surface (save a [[Lest We Forget|photo from Aerelon]]) has been shown to viewers.
*Until the episode "[[Razor]]", where Scorpia and Tauron are shown from orbit, Caprica has been the only Colonial planet actually shown in the Re-imagined Series.

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==Gemenon==
[[Image:ColonialColors5.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and symbol of Gemenon]]
[[Image:Gemenon.png|thumb|left|A suburb of Gememon during the Cylon attack ([[The Plan]]).]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Gemini (constellation)|Gemini]]
[[Image:Venner.jpg|right|thumb|150px|[[Marines|Marine]] Corporal [[Venner]], a native of Gemenon.]]
Gemenon natives are called Gemenese ([[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]). They are known for their literal interpretations of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] ([[Fragged]]). Most of the population of Gemenon was apparently very strongly opposed to the federal laws legalizing abortion. ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

Gemenon was home to the Kobol Colleges. [[Aaron Doral]] claims to have studied public relations there. One of the last ever professional [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] games was held on Gemenon just prior to the [[Cylon attack]] on the Colonies ([[Miniseries]]).

Gemenon was one of the poorer colonies ([[Dirty Hands]]).

Approximately 9,500 Gemenese join the [[Laura Roslin faction]], perhaps persuaded by [[Roslin]]'s play of the "religious card" ([[Home, Part I]]). Even if this is the great majority of the Fleet's Gemenese population, it still means that Gemenon represents significantly more than a twelfth of the remains of humanity. It is maybe for this reason, or Gemenese influence over religious elements of the Fleet that Roslin's election campaign gives concern to the "Gemenese religious vote".

Fifty-eight years before the fall of the Twelve Colonies three Caprican teenagers, [[Zoe Graystone]], [[Ben Stark]] and [[Lacy Rand]] who were part of a monotheistic religious cult attempt to run away from home to Gemenon. ([[Caprica pilot]])

Gemenon has either an old or disused language or dialect specific to their colony known as "Old Gemenese." [[Gina Inviere]]'s last name means "resurrection" in that language.<ref>See [[Language in the Twelve Colonies]] for more.</ref>

===Natives===
*[[Adrien Bauer]]
*[[Romo Lampkin]]
*[[Jurgen Belzen]] and family
*[[Gina Inviere]] (alleged, actually a [[humanoid Cylon]])
*[[Rya Kibby]]
*[[Sarah Porter]], former delegate to the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]]
*[[Galen Tyrol]] (alleged, actually a [[humanoid Cylon]])
*Corporal [[Venner]]

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==Leonis==
[[Image:ColonialColors8.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and symbol of Leonis]]
[[Image:Leonis.png|thumb|left|A Leonisian thoroughfare under Cylon assault ([[The Plan]]).]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Leo (constellation)|Leo]]

Leonis was known for its open plains ([[The Plan]]). [[Safiya Sanne]] is identified as both Leonis's and [[#Picon|Picon]]'s representative on the first [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]].

[[Leonis Estates Sparkling Wine]] was a type of alcohol produced on this colony.

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==Libran==
[[Image:ColonialColors11.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and symbol of Libran]]
[[Image:Libran.png|thumb|left|One of Libran's famed courthouses ([[The Plan]]).]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Libra (constellation)|Libra]]

Practically no information exists about this colony except that it was known for its courthouses ([[The Plan]]). Its name was not spoken aloud onscreen until "The Plan", but was seen on a partially visible name plate on ''Colonial One'' that also shows the colony's symbol ("[[The Ties That Bind]]", time index 18:40).

In the season 4 episode "[[A Disquiet Follows My Soul]]", a much clearer view of the name plate can be seen as the camera view pans around the Quorum table during Vice President Zarek's speech.

After the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], [[Oswin Eriku]] is chosen to be this colony's representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]].

''[[Zephyr]]'', a passenger liner in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], is of Libran registry (SciFi.com).

: ''Note: According to issue 3 of the now-defunct ''[[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine]]'', the colony's name is "Libris", which is incorrect. The "Libris" spelling is also given by the Battlestar Galactica Role-Playing Game.''

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==Picon==
[[Image:ColonialColors2.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and symbol of Picon]]
[[Image:Picon.png|thumb|left|Picon from orbit ([[The Plan]]).]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Pisces (constellation)|Pisces]]
[[Image:Playa Palacios.jpg|right|thumb|150px|[[Playa Palacios]], a native of Picon.]]

Picon was the location for the [[Picon Fleet Headquarters|Colonial Fleet Headquarters]] ([[Miniseries]]). A [[Hero|flashback view]] of Admiral [[Peter Corman]]'s office, probably located at Fleet Headquarters, is among one of the rare visual glimpses of life on another colony outside of Caprica. The planet was covered mainly by water and known for its harbors ([[The Plan]]).

The colony came under heavy attack during the early stages of the Cylon attack. President [[Richard Adar]] offered a complete and unconditional surrender to the Cylons after Fleet Headquarters is destroyed; this overture was ignored ([[Miniseries]]).

[[Ellen Tigh]] was visiting a strip club on Picon when the attack started, though she claims to have been at the airport. A man who she met at the bar, an [[Number One|"unknown savior"]] ensured she was put on the last ship to get off the planet ("[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", "[[No Exit]]", "[[The Plan]]").

Picon is also the home of [[Picon Laboratories]], themselves located in Pailyn, Muritolan.

===Natives===

* [[Samuel Anders]] (alleged, actually a [[humanoid Cylon]])
* [[Asha Janik]], Cylon sympathizer, member of the [[Demand Peace]] movement ([[Epiphanies]]).
* The siblings, nephews and nieces of [[Billy Keikeya]] ([[Miniseries]]).
* [[Playa Palacios]], veteran columnist from the ''Picon Star Tribune''. <ref>She is presumed to be a resident.</ref>
* [[Safiya Sanne]], former Picon representative to the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]]. <ref>There is some confusion on the matter, see [[Safiya Sanne|his article]].</ref>

===Publications===
*''[[Picon Star Tribune]]''

===Pyramid Team===
* [[Picon Panthers]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

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==Sagittaron==

{{mainarticle|Sagittaron}}

[[Image:ColonialColors10.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and symbol of Sagittaron]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Sagittarius (constellation)|Sagittarius]]

Sagittaron<ref>The colony's name, Sagittaron, was originally spelled as "Sagittar'''i'''on" in the [[Miniseries]], but this changed to "Sagittaron" when the regular series began.</ref> endured centuries of exploitation at the hands of the other Colonies, leading to the colony becoming one of the poorest planets. Eventually, [[Tom Zarek]] led an organized series of terrorist acts against the established government there, many years before the fall of the Colonies ([[Bastille Day]]).

The Sagittarons are traditionalists who practice an different form of religion from the other Colonies. They believe in herbal medicine and have a general distrust of the military ([[The Woman King]]).

===Natives===

* [[Anastasia Dualla]], stated often that she was from Sagittaron ([[33]]), ([[Bastille Day]]), ([[The Woman King]]).
* [[Jacob Cantrell]], was the season 4 delegate from Sagittaron
* [[Portia King]], was from Sagittaron and requested help for her son ([[The Woman King]])
* [[Willie King]], was from Sagittaron and killed by Dr. Robert ([[The Woman King]])
* [[Tom Zarek]], was a freedom fighter from Sagittaron ([[Bastille Day]]) who became the Quorum delegate ([[Colonial Day]])

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==Scorpia==
[[Image:ScorpionFleetShipyards1.jpg|thumb|left|Scorpia and and its shipyards from orbit ([[Razor]]).]]
[[Image:ColonialColors6.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and symbol of Scorpia]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Scorpius|Scorpio]]

Scorpia was home to a [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards|shipyard]], where the battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' was docked during the Cylon attack.

Scorpia is apparently [[Scorpia Paragliding|well-known]] for its paragliding by enthusiasts, such as [[Jurgen Belzen]] ([[Razor]]), and also had lush jungles ([[The Plan]]), and assumed to be one of the richer colonies.

[[Eladio Puasha]] served as the planet's delegate to the first [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]] assembled after the Cylon attack.
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===Notes===
*In the episode "[[Razor]]", Scorpia is shown from orbit of its shipyards. Scorpia, Caprica and Tauron are the only Colonial planets actually shown in the Re-imagined Series as of this special season 4 episode.

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==Tauron==

{{mainarticle|Tauron (RDM)}}

[[Image:ColonialColors4.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and symbol of Tauron]]
[[Image:Tauron.png|thumb|left|Tauron from orbit ([[Razor]]).]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Taurus (constellation)|Taurus]]

Tauron was an agricultural colony reputed to be a somewhat troublesome colony within the [[Government of the Twelve Colonies|federal system]] of the Colonies, often disobeying directives decided by the colonies and "pushing their luck with the admiralty every chance they got." ([[Hero]]). Tauron was one of the wealthier colonies ([[Dirty Hands]]) known for its agriculture, lack of flowers, the [[Ha'la'tha]] crime syndicate, and the center of a [[Tauron Civil War|civil war]] some 80-100 years before the Fall ([[Caprica pilot|''Caprica'' pilot]]). At the end of the first [[Cylon War]], Tauron was [[Battle of Tauron|under attack]] from Cylon basestars and ground forces, causing many civilian causalities ("[[Razor]]", extended DVD edition) in areas such as the city of [[Hypatia]].

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===Notes===
*Tauron is the third of the twelve Colonial worlds shown in the Re-imagined Series, but only through the extended DVD version of "[[Razor]]". The extended version scene shows a brief scene on the surface with the terrified Cain family, but there is little detail.
* In ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'', the native language of the Taurons was shown to be Ancient Greek.

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==Virgon==
[[Image:ColonialColors1.png|thumb|100px|right|Colors and symbol of Virgon]]
[[Image:Virgon.png|thumb|left|An urban centre on Virgon ([[The Plan]]).]]
'''Ancient Name''': [[wikipedia:Virgo (constellation)|Virgo]]
[[Image:Marshall Bagot.jpg|right|thumb|110px|[[Marshall Bagot]], a native of Virgon.]]
[[Marshall Bagot]] is the Virgon delegate to the first [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]]. He nominates [[Tom Zarek]] for the vice-presidency ([[Colonial Day]]). In public ceremony, the Virgon delegate wears a light blue sash.

Soon after the Cylon attack begins, the Colonials launch a counter-attack over Virgon. The battle ostensibly ends with the destruction of the battlestar ''[[Atlantia (RDM)|Atlantia]]'' and the death of Admiral [[Nagala]]. Other battlestars in the Virgon attack are also eliminated ([[Miniseries, Night 1]]).

Virgon was one of the wealthier colonies ([[Dirty Hands]]) and was well known for its forests ([[The Plan]]).

[[Virgon Brew]] was a beer produced on the planet and exported to other Colonies ([[Maelstrom]]).

=== Notes ===

As an "Easter Egg" in "The Plan," the building on the lower left of the screen is the same one where the [[memoryalpha:Romulan Senate|Romulan Senate]] assembles in ''[[memoryalpha:Star Trek Nemesis|Star Trek Nemesis]]''. A detailed picture of this building is [[memoryalpha:File:Romulan senate building, 2379.jpg|available here]].
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== Fate==
The Ultimate fate of the twelve colonies 150,000 after [[The Fall]] is unknown. Presumably, after several thousand years their climates and surfaces would degrade until they resembled [[Earth]] as the fleet found it ([[Revelations]]). Given the half life of radiation, it could be presumed that by the present day radiation levels would have lowered past the point in which life would be allowed to flourish once again. However, little, if any traces would remain of the Civilizations that once lived upon them, excluding remains in space, such as the remnants of [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] or [[Ragnar Anchorage]].
== See Also==
*[[Colonial anthem]]
*[[Ithaca]]

==References==
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Talk:Leland Adama/Archive 1

2009-11-11T04:19:45Z

Spidersense215: /* Cylons */

==More Rank Confusion==
Okay, so clearly Lee is once again a [[Major]]. Is this his second unexplained demotion? Was his rank always Major, and was he just referred to as [[Commander]] due to his position as the commanding officer on [[Pegasus]]? In the US Navy an officer of any rank is referred to as "Captain" when he is in command of a vessel. -- [[User:Doopokko|Doopokko]] 18:03, 1 January 2007 (CST)
:The demotion appears to be similar to naval protocols where the rank of commander is given only to the captain of a ship. Since Lee hasn't a ship, he goes down to the highest non-ship command rank. This is speculation, but seems to be the only reason. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:07, 1 January 2007 (CST)
:Yeah, there is really no need to explain it. He was a Commander and we saw that promotion (The Captain's Hand). But it doesn't make that much sense to keep as Commander when he's "just" the CAG. Rank isn't everything anyways --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:22, 2 January 2007 (CST)
::It's all a bit odd. The best assumption is that Lee's promotion to Commander was a [[Wikipedia:Brevet (military)|brevet]], which ended with his command - this is not an uncommon practice during wartime, when faced with a shortage of officers. Although William Adama's resignation letter in "Hero" (and, according to the podcast, early drafts of the script) feature him leaving Lee in command after his departure, we should remember that Colonel Tigh was still on the outs at that point. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:27, 2 January 2007 (CST)
:::We should remember that the Colonial military has less than 3000 people left. Promotions have always been shown as very fluid, and they don't necessarily use the same standards as before the Fall of the Colonies. People are promoted and demoted as needed to do their jobs and position counts for more than rank. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:37, 2 January 2007 (CST)
Can someone clarify this for me? When William Adama gets promoted to admiral ("commander of more than one ship is called an admiral"), he gets to keep his position/rank after losing the other ship (which should, theoretically, mean that he's a mere commander again), while this is not true for Lee Adama. How come? This would all make sense if commander was, in fact, a position, not a rank, but it's listed as a rank on this wiki. [[User:Thorn|Thorn]] 02:25, 25 January 2007 (CST)
:Adama is an experienced officer who was eligible to be promoted to Admiral for awhile but had been passed over. Since he was military commander of the fleet, the President promoted him to a suitable rank, which also helps them if they encounter any more meglomanical Admirals like Caine again. Conversely, Apollo is a young inexperienced officer (only promoted to Captain just before the miniseries.), so there is no reason not to demote him back down to Major after Pegasus was destroyed. He was probably only promoted to keep him above the officers already posted to her. This also keeps him from outranking Colonel Tigh as well. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 05:25, 25 January 2007 (CST)

::This promotion/demotion business is a flaw of the series we cannot possibly solve.
::If Apollo is promoted to a rank of Commander when taking over Pegasus - and just appointed Commander of that ship - his later appearing as Major implies a demotion, which is a disciplinary measure (note that Kendra Shaw's demotion is explained by insubordination). But Apollo's demotion is not explained. And one shouldn't assume that Admiral Adama is not as high-handed as Admiral Cain.
::Adama's Admiralship after the destruction of Pegasus is actually not a problem because President Roslin's explanation ("more than one ship") is nonsensical. And Admiral is in charge of a military fleet and after the desctruction of Pegasus the military fleet consists of just one single ship. And sure the promotion is caused by the experience of Cain's command, as before that no one considered promoting Adama.
::Back to Apollo: he is not that young and inexperienced. And if demoted back to the next lower rank, why is he not Colonel Adama then? Maybe because all Colonels in the series are supposed to be inept characters.
::IMHO, the series switches back and forth between a rank-based structure and one in which commands and posts (be it a battlestar, be it CAG) are given out and taken back at whim. [[User:Str1977|Str1977]] 09:16, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

== Role ==

Should Lee's role be changed? I get the feeling he'll very shortly be CAG of Galactica again, but "currently" he's a Raptor pilot on Pegasus. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 20:14, October 19, 2005 (EDT)

:It should be changed when it changes. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:35, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

Speaking of roles, what's the best way to sort them? Start with the most recent on top or the first? -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:59, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

: Most current, then working on down. It should be a generalized list, since he's been CAG on and off during the series run... and we don't want to load the infobox with the different instances he was a CAG, obviously. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 18:06, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

==Cylons==

Can anybody think of any circumstances where Lee has interacted with a Cylon prisoner? I don't think he has interacted with any Cylon agent after they were known to be one. If it's true, it strikes me as strange. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 17:54, October 20, 2005 (EDT)

:With Caprica-Sharon in [[Home, Part I]]. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:32, 20 October 2005 (EDT)

:Why? There have only been three Cylons identified within the fleet so far. One [[Litmus|blew himself up]], Starbuck was tasked with interrogating [[Flesh and Bone|another]], and Lee was in the brig during Gal-Boomer's last days. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:00, 20 October 2005 (EDT)

On the subject of Cylons, has anybody noticed that before the Alliance, Lee seems to harbor strong anti-Cylon sentiments. Stronger than most. That's one of the most undernoticed things about him, methinks.--[[User:Spidersense215|Spidersense215]] 04:19, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

==Lee vs Adama==
The article was just modified to change several instances of Adama to Lee. Changing "Lee" to "Adama" done as an effort to be consistent with the principle of using the last name on "home pages" of characters. [[Talk:Ellen Tigh|See Discussion Here]] I don't want to immediately revert that change (as I know exactly how long it takes to make those changes, having done the inverse), but I was wondering if we're going to stick with the last name policy or not. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:47, 13 December 2005 (EST)

:I've reverted it. Our policy is clear and well-discussed. Mq59 can take it up on [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions]] if he has a new point to make. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:13, 13 December 2005 (EST)

== Source for "Floating in Water" Cylon Comparison? ==

Robojerk, I could not find a reference to the one you noted in a recent edit on Lee's comparison to being a Cylon. I'd like to keep that one in if you can tell the episode where you find that information. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:06, 17 January 2006 (EST)
:I think he's referring to the "swim in the stream" business. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 19:12, 17 January 2006 (EST)

==Demotion==

When exactly did it happen? Last time I checked, removing someone from flight status isn't an automatic demotion. Can someone point out exactly when he got busted? [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:35, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:My take on this: There is typically one Captain in any pilot group--that person's also the CAG. When Stinger was assigned CAG for all pilots, Adama might have been demoted by default, but I can't find any record of that happening directly (insignia checker take note). When Thrace was promoted to Captain, she became CAG as well. While pilots can be Captains when not assigned to a group (as Adama was before he arrived on ''Galactica''), being actively assigned to a battlestar may also change things. Another likely point was that Cain demoted him as punishment in addition to revoking his flight status until Thrace asked for him back. Educational guesses--maybe someone can read through the transcripts? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:35, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::Bill Adama refers to him as Lieutenant in Resurrection Ship, Part II. No idea when the actual demotion took place, or if [[Cole Taylor]] and [[George Birch]] remained captains after losing their CAG position. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:17, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::I made the edit about his Lieutenant status. I assumed that it was a result of Cain's punishment rather than being assigned to Pegasus, as Stinger still refers to him as Captain in the teaser of Res Ship II. Also, getting a demotion due to reassignment sounds really wierd (though possible, I guess). --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:35, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::::I think that Birch got a temporary promotion to captain, to be CAG, but that others like Taylor and Lee were captains through normal promotion through ranks (i.e. not dependent on being CAG or not) thus I think/hope that Apollo will be promoted right back to Captain by next week's episode, as I see NO reason why his father wouldn't just promote him back to Captain. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]][[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:06, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::::At the risk of digressing, the kid did not exactly look... spaceworthy, at the end of last episode. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:39, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::::::I'll digress right with you. Lee's expression matched the stunned, open-mouthed expression of the character, Cameron, from "Ferris Bueller's Day Off", after Cameron "kills" his dad's Porsche. Lee's worse off than Kat was when she was drugged out on stims. He's clinically depressed. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:22, 20 January 2006 (EST)

== Promotion!? ==

Aw, hell. While we were all chewin' through what Major pips looked like, [[The Captain's Hand|recent events]] turn Lee Adama into a Commander!? I hope we all realize how really really confusing THIS is going to be from the disambigs for "Commander Adama" and first-season to mid-second season links. Curse you, Ron Moore! Curse you!!! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:05, 17 February 2006 (EST)

I don't get it either! What's with the Admiral?! Why did he put Lee in command of the Pegasus? Because he knows some tactics? He knows very little about commanding. Even Garner knew more! Would Lee sacrifice his life to save Pegasus? I doubt it. From episode to episode I hate Apollo more and more. The old man has lost his mind or what?! A flyboy in command? Worser than an engineer if you ask me. And how the hell got flyboy Adama promoted two time in a couple of weeks?! And WHY?! Why wouldn't the Admiral put Tigh in command instead? He has the ability to command a BS with discipline and Pegasus could adapt very fast to it because Cain was like that too. A flyboy in command? Right. Now that's what I call out of the box thinking. Well, it's light years from the box in this case. What will come next? Apollo will candidate for the presidency? Oh, I know: In the next episode (Downloaded) he will be revealed as God and he will lead the fleet to salvation. I hope the Pegasus will be destroyed pretty soon when Lee "God" Adama will be on board.

--[[User:Nyiz|Nyiz]] 16:32, 18 February 2006 (EST)

:Aircraft carriers are usually commanded by aviators; the same is true of Battlestars. Both Admiral Adama and Colonel Tigh are former aviators, as were, as far as we can tell from the insignia, Cain and Fisk. Furthermore, Tigh doesn't want a command. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 19:52, 18 February 2006 (EST)

::Just to clarify, a friend of mine (ex-USN) has told me that a Carrier may ONLY be commanded by an aviator, and since Ron Moore has described Galactica as an aircraft carrier in space (and given all the other references to current-day military), it's safe to assume that this Command structure is the same in BSG-land. Also: Garner knew more about tactics than Lee did? No offence, but did you even watch [[The Captain's Hand]]? Had Garner any real knowledge of command tactics, it's doubtful that the [[Battle of the Binary Star System]] would have unfolded as it did. With regards to his promotion to Major- it seems to be the general concensus (although never explicitly stated on screen) that Lee was assigned to Pegasus as Garner's XO. If this is the case (which i don't believe- see bottom of page), the Old Man may have promoted him to Major in order to give him more clout over the other Pegasus officers --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 07:43, 12 September 2006 (CDT)

: Why [[Lee Adama]]? Believe it or not, given what we know of the surviving military personnel, Lee is now one of the senior officers of the fleet. [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] is utterly unsuitable for command, has no "cred" on ''Pegasus'', and would do nothing to improve their morale. Furthermore, there's no evidence that Tigh '''wants''' a command of his own, ever. Lee, for all his faults (and brother, does he have faults) has shown quick thinking, and an ability to make even questionable decisions work out in nondisasterous ways. He'll either grow up really, really fast, or he won't, in which case I expect that ''Pegasus's'' deckhands will be installing a revolving door on the commander's cabin.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 14:25, 24 February 2006 (EST)

Wow, from Captain to Major to Commander in a matter of days. That's got to be a record somewhere. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 17:41, 18 February 2006 (EST)

No, more like Captain to Lieutenant to Captain to Major to Commander in a matter of weeks. (haha) It's more maddening when you think of it that way. But without him, the Pegasus wouldn't have made it out of that trap; that had to be tricky. Granted, Garner's repair was vital too.

I need to go back and watch the episode, I totally had the impression that the Admiral was transfering to Pegasus and Lee was taking Galactica. I'm most curious however to find out who his XO is going to be. My only possible guess is Captain Kelly, Galactica LSO [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 18:43, 18 February 2006 (EST)

: I also got that impression, Rocky. Also, everyone, it's mentioned that "The Captain's Hand" is a month after "Sacrifice", so his promotions might not be as rapid-fire as they seem. Not that it's a normal, slow progression, but neither is it Captain on Monday, Major on Thursday and Commander on Saturday. As for Lee's XO... I'd like to see some Marine or something promoted to command-level staff. Maybe Hadrian. Though I have no idea how realistic that is. What, exactly, does a Sergeant at Arms do? --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:48, 19 February 2006 (EST)

::Well, as a Noncommissioned officer (that is, a non-officer), it would be impossible to become the XO. Someone slap me down if I'm wrong, but a useful generalization is that people who graduate from college are elligible to become Officers and those who don't tend to "enlist" (gradually being promoted toward from Privates toward non-commissioned officer ranks like Sergeant). (See [[Military Ranks (RDM)]]) When an enlisted soldier reaches the top of the Noncommissioned officer hierarchy, they don't jump to an Officer Rank (in BSG's case: Ensign). Like I said; if I'm way off base, someone correct me.

::It's kind of strange, come to think about it, that for a show that works so hard to break stereotypes by casting Starbuck and Kat as the top aces, that most senior officers in the fleet are, and have been, old white men. (Tigh, Fisk, Garner, Kelly, Cottle, Lee...) The RDM feels less racially diverse than the TOS in some ways. Not that I'm complaining about anything; I think everything has been cast well and an "alien" civilization of humans doesn't need to fit our expectations anyway.... [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 04:09, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:::You're correct on there not being an automatic jump from enlisted to officer ranks. Technically that butterbar lieutenant that rolls out of the service academy or ROTC program outranks even the highest ranking enlisted person (NCO or not) from day one. That being said, there are certain realities in the field that blur those lines. A company commander is going to be far more likely to listen to his First Sergeant than a 2LT when it comes to practical decisions, regardless of who technically would have to salute whom. There are programs that allow enlisted folks to move into officer ranks after getting a degree (green to gold, etc.), and I have worked with both a Major and a Lt. Col who were former enlisted. (A lot of enlisted guys I've talked to prefer the former-enlisted officers to ROTC and especially service academy officers, as they feel that the former enlisted officers better understand what goes on at the lowest levels.) So there's no probable way for a marine to end up being an XO in BSG-land right now, as the highest ranking marine we've seen is credited as being an LT (though he is called Gunny by Kara).
:::As for the demographics of the senior officers... I wouldn't call Kelly or Lee old. ;) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:06, 24 February 2006 (EST)
::::Tigh was once an enlisted person during the Cylon War. A Petty Officer if I'm not mistaken. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:04, 24 February 2006 (EST)
:::::I believe that's correct. He was "dragooned" into officer training to fly a Viper. So it IS possible for an enlisted person to become XO. It just takes a long time... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:07, 24 February 2006 (EST)

== caption for new picture ==

Sorry, I couldn't help myself, lol. :D--[[User:Kross|Kross]] 21:35, 13 March 2006 (CST)

== Fat Lee ==

Just like to point out that theres a behind the scenes thing for Season 3 up on scifi.com's video player, in which theres a scene involving fat lee during an episode, and also explains the chunkicity. HTH :) --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 20:22, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

== Lee as Pegasus XO? ==

I move that this section of the article be revised or deleted entirely. It was never explicitly stated on screen that the reason for Lee's transfer to Pegasus was to become Garner's XO; all we are told was that he was to keep an eye on Starbuck, and that it was temporary- "I should be back again in a couple of weeks". Garner also sates, rather aggressively, that he is "not a member of this crew" to the CIC Sergeant of the Guard. Surely that is reason enough to conclude that he was in fact NOT Garner's XO? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 07:55, 12 September 2006 (CDT)

:Anyone have a different view on this? Have I mised something? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 07:20, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
::In one of the [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/deleted/season2.html deleted scenes] (217.1 Dinner Conversation) Tigh asks "You still thinking about making Apollo his XO?". That could mean that Adm. Adama wanted to send over Apollo just to help Garner for now (as per your dialogue citations), but thought about making him the permanent XO --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:15, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Aren't we taking what is on screen as what is canon, though? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:12, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
::::I can't tell you how much I hate the fraking C-word and its overuse! I've seen other articles argue with deleted scenes too, or adding information from them to character bios. Sometimes they are even necessary to fully understand some developments, like why Socinus went to Kobol. Personally, unless they are contradicted later, I don't see why they shouldn't be at least considered in speculation. When the writers wrote the episode they had ideas about why Lee went to the Pegasus and in what capacity. This scene is also an expression of that ideas even if it wasn't shown on TV. Besides, it's not like I'm contradicting you. It's supporting what you said above. He wasn 't the XO ''yet'' --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:29, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::Oh, I know you're not contradicting me. And I've just read the BW:OC in which the very kind [[User:Ngarenn|Ngarenn]] points out that the writing room operates as if "every scene shot happened". So, I suppose, I'll stand back. I had never seen that deleted scene before :( (undoubtadely cause I'm from the UK, and because I didn't even ''know'' there was a deleted scene) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 12:50, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

== Article formatting. ==

The Lee Adama article is formatted differently than all the other character articles. Here we have actual paragraphs describing the character, whereas elsewhere we merely have note points. I'm sort of a stickler for consistency and was wondering if there are plans to reformat this page. This would be a massive undertaking and, frankly, I like the formatting of the Lee page much better. We may thus want to reformat the other pages (but that would be an even larger endeavor). I just wanted to see if anyone else was thinking about this, or what the general consensus to such a project may be...-- Helo87
:The paragraph format is the standard, but some of the character articles grew so large under that format that they had to be condensed to remain at a reasonable size (without splitting it up into subarticles). If you look at the bulleted characters histories, you ought to be able to find the (gigantic) older formatting versions. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:38, 14 February 2008 (CST)

:If anything, the other articles should be changed to highlight pivotal character moments instead of just retelling all plot points. I think this is somewhat if a model for what character articles should be. Not so much because of bullet points vs paragraphs, but because it actually focuses on Lee Adama as a character and analyzes his motivations and habits a bit. As such, using paragraphs is really advantageous.
:Overall a prefer paragraphs, but bullet points also have their uses. With paragraphs, it's hard to find good transitions, so when dealing with lots of varied information, bullet points have their uses. But as said, they can become too long and hard to read. There was actually a whole bio project about this, but while we agreed that a more character focused approach would be great, it didn't really take off. You'll notice that the large, bulleted articles are often a bit plot focused. An exception to this is the last section of [[William Adama]], which I rewrote a bit, because it overlaps so much with this one and is really suitable for a character focused approach. Rewriting entire articles of this length is also a lot of work though.
:[[Battlestar Wiki talk:Think Tank/Character Bio Project|Here]] is the link to the bio project, which also contains a lengthier comment by me about this very article and why I rewrote it somewhat (content, not format). The proposal itself also notes the idea of a mixed format, but that wasn't so popular I think. We should probably tackle this again after the show's end, if it's not done by then, and not much new content is added. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:47, 14 February 2008 (CST)
::Yeah Serenity, that sounds like a plan. I think that the eventual goal (once the series is over) would be to condense the character pages because they end up being a complete recap of the series from each individuals point of view. This is pretty stupid, and I think that it detracts from the overall purpose of the character pages; to provide information on who someone was and what the defining moments of their lives were. Then again, that is the general problem with creating a good Wiki (though I think that everyone's doing a great job here), in that there is a lot of information overlapping between articles. For example, when I redid the "Fall of the Twelve Colonies" page there was a section that described the nature of the humanoid Cylons, and frankly, that was unnecessary. In the end I just erased it all and made sure there were appropriate links to the page that was meant to explain that (i.e. the humanoid Cylon page). -- Helo87

== Family tree ==

Would "Gianne" and her unborn child fit into the family tree, despite the fact that Gianne and Lee's baby was never born? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 22:47, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
:Gianne and Lee were engaged but didn't marry, and we don't know if the baby was even far along enough to be legally considered alive. It has no known name to put on the tree. So I don't think so. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 00:55, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

== Boxes ==

I don't want to start a fight over anything, since I know we've been over what should/shouldn't be in the succession boxes before, but if we're going to include Lee and Zarek's stints as Acting President, then shouldn't we also include his post as Acting XO on ''Pegasus'', as well as Kat's stint as acting CAG (in the Pegasus trilogy) and Birch's as actual, designated CAG (in Home I & II)? Thus, either the minimalist version:

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=[[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]]|title=[[Commander Air Group|Commander, Air Group]], ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]]}}
{{succession box|before=[[Barry Garner]]|title=Commanding Officer, ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''|after=''(none, ship destroyed)''}}
{{succession box|before=[[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]|title=[[Commander Air Group|Commander, Air Group]], ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=[[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]}}
{{succession box|before=[[Cowen]]|title=Caprican delegate to the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]]|after=''Incumbent''}}
{{end box}}

or the completist version:

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=[[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]]|title=[[Commander Air Group|Commander, Air Group]], ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=[[George Birch|George "Catman" Birch]]}}
{{succession box|before=[[George Birch|George "Catman" Birch]]|title=[[Commander Air Group|Commander, Air Group]], ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=[[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]] (Acting)}}
{{succession box|before=[[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]] (Acting)|title=[[Commander Air Group|Commander, Air Group]], ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]]}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown, eventually [[Jack Fisk]])|title=Executive Officer, ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' (Acting)|after=''(unknown, eventually [[Anastasia Dualla]])''}}
{{succession box|before=[[Barry Garner]]|title=Commanding Officer, ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''|after=''(none, ship destroyed)''}}
{{succession box|before=[[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]|title=[[Commander Air Group|Commander, Air Group]], ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=[[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]}}
{{succession box|before=[[Cowen]]|title=Caprican delegate to the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]]|after=''(unknown)''}}
{{succession box|before=[[Tom Zarek]] (Acting)|title=President of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies of Kobol]] (Acting)|after=''Incumbent''}}
{{end box}}

--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:37, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

:I think in general it's more important to note that he held very different positions than documenting the CAG switcheroos just because he went on some mission and needed to be replaced for one episode. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:25, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
::Surely then, his position as acting President due to Roslin's temporary absence is equally unimportant? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:01, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
:::I wouldn't think so, given that he's responsible for the alliance with the Cylons. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:56, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

==Move request==

I requested that this article should be moved back to [[Lee Adama]].
*It is proper to note (verified) full forms of names in articles, but the article should be under that character's most common name. (And there is nothing in [[/BW:SAC#Characters_Names_and_TitlesSAC]] that requires the recent move so it shouldn't be called "conventionalising" (This was done in the Talk page to the Cally article - the whole move wasn't discussed here, as far as I can tell.)
*The character is consistently referred to as either Lee, Captain/Lieutenant/Major/Commander Adama or Apollo.
*I have never heard of one occurence of Leland (but I am only in the middle of the third series watching). Even though, such a lone occurence would not justify the article title given the principle laid out above.

[[User:Str1977|Str1977]] 09:34, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
:I agree with the above. In the entire series, I remember only one instance of the use "Leland". Also, I think it's common for articles to be named after the better known name of a person. For instance, on wikipedia, there are articles titled "Stonewall Jackson" instead of "Thomas Jackson" and "Jimmy Carter" instead of "James Carter". I don't see why we should do anything different based on a very limited use of Lee's full first name. [[User:CylonCAG|CylonCAG]] 02:32, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
:I could go either way, but I'd lean toward "Leland" for consistency's sake: It's nice having all the character articles in the same format, and using "Lee" would invite "Helo Agathon", "Dee Dualla" and "Jammer Lyman" - all as reasonable as "Lee Adama", since they are practically never called by their real first names, but ''really silly looking''. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:49, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
::I see what you mean, but I don't think those cases are the same as Lee. To my knowledge none of those characters have ever been called "Helo Agathon" or any of the other names. However, Lee has been called "Lee Adama" many, many times. For instance, Lee once screams "My name is Lee Adama...". If say, Helo had once said "I'm Helo Agathon" or if Dee had been addressed as "Dee Dualla" that would be different. However, names like that are combining two different names, while Lee Adama is the actual name Lee is called by for the vast majority of the series. [[User:CylonCAG|CylonCAG]] 04:52, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

:::"for consistency's sake: It's nice having all the character articles in the same format, and using "Lee" would invite ..."
:::And for consistency's sake I am in favour of Lee Adama, Cally Henderson/Tyrol, Karl Agathon etc. Consistency which takes the series itself into account.
:::Examples like "Helo Agathon", "Dee Dualla" and "Jammer Lyman" are nonsensical as these people are never called this way. Helo is either called "Helo", "Karl Agathon", "Karl C. Agathon", "Lt./Captain Agathon" etc. Call signs are alternative to the real names, not cominations with them. And we rightfully opt to use the real names, since this clearly distinguishes the new Apollo, new Starbuck, new Boomer, new Athena from their very different TOS counterparts.
:::"since they are practically never called by their real first names"
:::Not true, not true. Helo is called Karl by Sharon, Apollo is almos consistently called Lee by Starbuck (and Starbuck Kara by Apollo).
:::[[User:Str1977|Str1977]] 09:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
::::Agree. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|talk]]) 13:20, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::This and [[Talk:Callandra Tyrol]] seem to be a bit of a tempest in a teacup to me. If you type "Lee Adama" into the search box, you get to the right place. Ditto for "Cally". I think the articles should use the full given name if it's revealed in the series. Should we move [[William Adama]] to Bill Adama? After all, he's hardly ever called William. I think not. The beauty of redirects is in that we can redirect any permutation of the name. Going through the hassle of moving these articles, correcting links, etc., is probably not the best use of our time with a huge influx of new users, multiple episode summaries that need concision/cleanup. Your mileage may vary. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 13:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
::::::My worry is that we may start including the names "Leland Adama" and "Callandra Tyrol" in other articles. After all, if I replaced the use of "Lee Adama" with "Leland Adama" every time "Lee" was used (minus direct quotes), I wouldn't be doing anything wrong. However, this would be confusing. True, if I clicked on Leland I'd be directed here, but it still would be a bit confusing to read that Leland is the CAG, especially considering the name Leland was used just once. [[User:CylonCAG|CylonCAG]] 17:16, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::Obviously we shouldn't use "Leland" in article text when the colloquial "Lee" is more appropriate, but isn't the title of the article a separate issue? I think what most people would do is type "Lee Adama" into the search box, end up here, think "Huh, Lee is short for Leland" and then think nothing of it again. It's nice to be able to provide fuller and more accurate information, and I think that the current practice does so in an unobtrusive way. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:15, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
:::::::: That makes sense. But what I am worried about is if someone changes Lee to the still correct but less used Leland. Let's say I went through the wiki and changed almost every instance of Lee to "Leland". Would it stay that way, be reverted, or have an edit war between the use of "Lee" and "Leland"? It probably wouldn't be the end of the worldif Leland were used instead of Lee, but it would definitly be a bit weird. [[User:CylonCAG|CylonCAG]] 22:44, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Knocking this down to first level, hence the lack of indentation. First, we refer to characters by their proper names when it comes to '''naming the article''', so "Leland Adama" should remain that way. Again, we have redirects in place that make this point moot, so it's clearly not for usability reasons.

The second, and probably the most important actual issue here, is how the names are used in the article. For clarity's sake, we should '''always use the character's first name or last name when referring to that character'''. Properly, last names are preferred over first names, since last names are more formal and proper for the encyclopedia/reference guide that we've constructed. Callsigns should be totally avoided at all costs, since these are informal military names. (The '''only''' reason we should ''ever'' refer to a character by their callsign is because we don't know of the character by any other name.) When it comes to first names, which is the real issue up for discussion here, I do agree that Lee should always be used if needed, the same with Cally. "Bill" is really a unique case that likely merits further discussion, since he's been referred to as both in the series. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]]</sup> 03:57, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
:Thank you for making that clear. As long as we do that, I'm fine calling this article Leland. [[User:CylonCAG|CylonCAG]] 04:34, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

==BCE==

Please, take note of [[Talk:Timeline_(RDM)#BCE_occurences|this issue]]. [[User:Str1977|Str1977]] 09:44, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

The Plan

2009-10-29T01:03:07Z

Spidersense215:

{{Episode Data
| image=The Plan - Tigh and Adama in Galactica Corridor.jpg
| title= The Plan
| season=
| special=Y
| episode=
| guests=
| writer= [[Jane Espenson]] <ref name ="cyloncentric">{{cite_web|url=http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2008/08/battlestar-gala.html|title='Battlestar Galactica': Edward James Olmos will direct Cylon-centric special feature|date=08-06-2008|accessdate=09-03-2008}}</ref>
| story=
| director= [[Edward James Olmos]]<ref name ="cyloncentric"/>
| production= 101 - 01001
| rating=
| US airdate=2010
| CAN airdate=
| UK airdate=
| dvd=October 27, 2009
| population=
| prev=[[Daybreak, Part II]]
| next=
}}

== Overview ==
:''This special episode, based on the episode title, involves characters and events based around the series' premise stated in the opening credits of the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and their plan for humanity. The episode is set during the events of the [[Miniseries]] and Season 2, told from the Cylons' perspective, and is currently in post-production.<ref>See [[Mark Verheiden|Mark Verheiden's]] entry on his [http://verheiden.blogspot.com/2008/08/battlestar-galactica-plan.html blog, August 9, 2008.]</ref>The disappearance of [[Shelly Godfrey]] is explained, as is [[Ellen Tigh]]'s mysterious appearance. [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Number One|John Cavil]] are the main viewpoint characters.<ref>Tricia Helfer interview with USA Weekend:[http://blogs.usaweekend.com/whos_news/2009/01/exclusive-trici.html]</ref>''

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===

The show opens with the statement "The Cylons where created by man. They rebelled. They evolved. They look and feel human. Some are programmed to think they are human. There are many copies and they have a Plan." While this is being said they show the Cylon Fleet.

Next, you are taken inside Galatica and you see two Ones being escorted to an airlock. Both of them are having a difference of opinion.

One A - "I was doing fine here, thanks for exposing me."

One B - "You weren't doing fine. Thank goodness. If you'd wiped out this fleet you would have made us ever more irredeemable in the eyes of our parents."

One A - "No, I would have proved us to be superior."

One B - "No, no see, I figured out what went wrong."

One A - "Well that's a very useful revelation to have, if your standing in front of an airlock."

One B - "None the less"

One A - "Our failure is obvious, we had our foot on the throat of humanity and we failed to step down hard enough."

One B - "That was our error. Have you learned nothing in all this time in the fleet. Because I learned a great deal among the rebels on Caprica. Every killing of a human being was a grievous error. You want to know why?"

One A - "I really don't."

One B - "Are you certain?" Because it's fascinating."

One A - "Listen brother. If you are right, that means this whole project was doomed from the beginning."

One B - "Yes, from the very top."

=== Act 1 ===

'''This event take place 2 weeks before the attack on the colonies:'''

''The Cylon Fleet near the “Colony”''

You see two Ones standing over the resurrection tubs of the “Final Five:” Ellen Tigh, Saul Tigh, Samuel T. Anders, Galen Tyrol and Tory Foster they are talking about what they “the Ones” might expect after their parents resurrect. One of the “Ones” plans on joining one of the mothers, “Ellen Tigh” on Picon since he has never experience a nuclear holocaust in person. The other “One” is going to make his way to Caprica to make the final arrangement with their contact.

'''This event takes place 14 hours before the attack on the colonies:'''

''Caprica City:''

Dr. Gaius Baltar is having a little conversation with a “Number Six” who has been posing as an agent of a company seeking defense contracts in exchange for his access to government mainframes she helped him design the navigation program used by the Colonial warships. However, she has been covertly creating backdoors in the program. Shortly after their goodbyes “Number Six” meats up with a “Number One” and passes off the access codes to the Colonial Defenses which will later be used in the attack.

'''These events take place just prior to the attack on the Colonies: '''

Inside of Club Pink Moon on Picon, you find a “Number One” talking with Ellen Tigh about why she like olives. They introduce themselves to each other (there is a quick flash to her inside of the resurrection tub). The “Number One” order her another drink.

Meanwhile back at the Cylon Fleet - The Cylon Fleet jumps to there potions over the Twelve Colonies so there attack can begin.

The “Number One” ask Ellen why she is there stating she is meant for greater things.

''Caprica Pyramid Training Camp:''

You see Sam T. Anders is practicing Pyramid with his teammates.

Meanwhile the Cylon Fleet jumps in over the Twelve Colonies and begins to count down to the attack.

Back on Caprica in Delphi you see Tory Foster driving to a Airport/Spaceport (a quick flash to her in her resurrection tub).

The Cylon Fleet continues to make their final preparation for attack..

Back in Club Pink Moon on Picon, Ellen and the “Number One” continue the conversation about people learning their lessons.

The Cylons Fleet closes in on the Colonies to begin their attack. The hybrid uses the backdoors the “Number Six” had created in the defense system. The vipers of the Colonial Fleet see the Basestars and raiders but the Battlestars won’t confirm they are there since the defense system is starting to crash. The Cylons scan the Battlestars and vipers and they all go dead in space. The Cylons begin to launch their nuclear weapons onto the Colonies.

Back at the Pyramid Training Grounds Sam and his team continue to practice as the bombs start to fall. (There is a quick flash to Sam in his resurrection tub). The bombs continue to fall.

Ellen and “Number One” carry on there conversation about sell yourself out.

The bombs make there final decent.

Tory is still driving to the Airport/Spaceport in Delphi, Caprica talk with someone on the car phone.

The Pyramid team continues its practice and the coach shows Sam up by making a great goal.

The warheads arm for their final dispersement. The coach toasts his goal with the team doctor (who really is a Humanoid Cylon a "Number Four").

Tory continues her drive.

The warhead launch out of their capsule and make their way to their final targets.

Sam falls to the ground giving into his defeat by the coach. The warheads are launched and begin to proceed to their targets. The destruction of the Colonies has begun. You are taken through several screens of the destruction throughout the Colonies.

Sam says “This has happened before.” The Pyramid team watches as the bombs go off near them. You see the team doctor crack a smile. You again are taken around the Colonies showing the attack by the Cylons. The progress reports come in. (See Noteworthy dialogue below). You see the screen of each Planet listed burning from the attack.

You now see Galactica and the CIC as they receive word of the attack. Saul Tigh the first officer thinks is just a joke being play on Captain Adama since he is about to retire. (A flash to Saul in his resurrection tub). There are some shots of different Humanoid Cylons throughout the Colonies just after the attacks. Back on Picon Ellen has been hurt badly and also says “This has happened before.” When she looks up at the “Number One” she asks if she is going to die. His reply is “No, not when you have so much to learn.”

Captain Adama makes the announcement to the crew of the ship about the attack on the Colonies. While he does this, you see rescue operation beginning through the Colonies. You see Galen “Chief” Tyrol making a motivation speech to his crew to get the Galactica ready for battle (there is a quick flash to him in his resurrection tub).

Back on Occupied-Caprica you see the Cylon Centurions collecting the damaged ones and bringing them to a container for what appears to be repairs. The Pyramid team sees this and debates what they should do. Meanwhile, on Colonial One they bring aboard survivors from Caprica. Back on Galactica Captain Adama finds a cryptic message left for him by Baltar. '''“There are only 12 Cylon models.” ''' You see Baltar in his cabin in shock and disbelief as to what has just happened.

=== Act 2 ===

=== Act 3 ===

=== Act 4 ===

== Notes ==
*The planet behind the Universal Studios logo at the beginning of the movie is [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]] instead of [[Earth]].
*Unknown to the Colonials there apparently ''was'' a second Resurrection Ship nearby by the time the Cavil's were executed allowing them to download into new bodies when killed, although the Caprica copy was presumably boxed.
* ''Galactica'' Cavil was Ellen's mysterious hero that saved her from the attack on Picon. It was known to be a Number One, but it wasn't clear exactly ''which'' one it was.
*An outfit is listed on propworx<ref>[http://archive.battlestarprops.com/1003/192 Gina's Outfit in Scene with Boomer]</ref> as being worn in the extended version of "Daybreak" by [[Gina Inviere]], in a scene where she speaks to [[Sharon Valerii]] just before the latter becomes a sleeper agent. This scene does not appear in the extended "Daybreak", but [[Ronald Moore]]'s commentary on that episode states that it was moved to "The Plan". Thus, the Six seen speaking to Boomer is Gina Inviere.
*[[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] is identified in "The Plan" as ''Scorpia'' Fleet Shipyards.

== Analysis ==
*Given the ''Galactica'' copy of Cavil's comments in the airlock, his resurrected self is the copy that led the anti-human Cylon faction during the [[Cylon Civil War]] and later killed himself permanently in CIC during the [[Battle of The Colony]].

== Questions ==
* Did Giana take her husband's surname? In other words, is the full alias of Number Four actually "Simon O'Neil"?
* Is ''Galactica'' Cavil really the same Cavil that leads one side of the Cylon Civil War?

== Official Statements ==

===Future Movies===
Speaking at the 2009 San Diego Comic Con, director and star of ''The Plan'', [[Edward James Olmos]] stated that he believes there will be several more ''Battlestar Galactica'' movies in the future and is confident that the DVD release of ''The Plan'' will sell well enough to facilitate these films:
:"As a matter of fact, I've got to tell you right now. Because of you all, what you're doing, because of the love for that world...I can guarantee that this will not be the last movie." <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://io9.com/5322385/olmos-the-plan-wont-be-the-last-bsg-movie|title=Olmos: The Plan Won't Be the Last BSG Movie|date=Fri Jul 24 2009|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>
This statement, however, is by no means official, as both [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron Moore]], [[David Eick]], and [[SciFi Channel|SyFy]] have made no mention of any additional ''Battlestar'' films.

Olmos later went on to clarify that if ''The Plan'' sold ¾ of a million copies (750,000) then Universal Studios would assuredly be willing to produce future ''Battlestar''-related productions. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://galacticasitrep.blogspot.com/2009/08/edward-james-olmos-holds-court.html|title=Edward James Olmos holds court|date=Sat 08 Aug 2009|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*Sam and his team our practicing at the Pyramid Training camp on Caprica, you see Sam lying on the ground just after the coach had showed him up by making a goal. He is looking up into the sky just as the bombs are coming in and he says, "This has happened before." It was as if part of Sam's memory was breaking through trying to warn him that the cycle was starting again.

*Ellen Tigh makes a similar statement when she first comes to after the attacks.

*{{audio|Colonies of man.mp3|''A Hybrid summarizes the Fall of the Twelve Colonies and notes all but the two most religious colonies (Gemenon and Sagittaron):''}}
:Progress report surviving.
:The farms of [[Aerilon]] are burning.
:The beaches of [[Canceron]] are burning.
:The plains of [[Leonis]] are burning.
:The jungles of [[Scorpia]] are burning.
:The pastures of [[Tauron]] are burning.
:The harbours of [[Picon]] are burning.
:The cities of [[Caprica]] are burning.
:The oceans of [[Aquaria]] are burning.
:The courthouses of [[Libran]] are burning.
:The forests of [[Virgon]] are burning.
:The colonies of man lie trampled at our feet.

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]] <ref name ="morecylons">{{cite_web|url=http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/09/battlestar-gala.html|title='Battlestar Galactica' movie snares Tricia Helfer, Grace Park and lots more Cylons|date=09-03-2008|accessdate=10-11-2009}}</ref>
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]] <ref name ="morecylons"/>
* [[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel T. Anders]] <ref name ="cyloncentric"/>
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]] <ref name ="cyloncentric"/>
* [[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]] <ref name ="theplancast">{{cite_web|url=http://io9.com/5106866/cylon-confessions-and-a-surprising-hookup-in-bsgs-tv-movie|title='Battlestar Galactica': Cylon Confessions, And A Surprising Hookup, In BSG's TV Movie|date=12-10-2008|accessdate=03-07-2009}}</ref>
* [[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Number One]] <ref name ="cyloncentric"/>
* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Number Two]] <ref name ="morecylons"/>
* [[Rick Worthy]] as [[Number Four]] <ref name ="theplancast"/>
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]] <ref name ="morecylons"/>
* [[Lymari Nadal]] as [[Giana O'Neill]] <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.doorq.com/Blog.aspx?b=1667|title=DRAGON*CON: More Galactica Info from Olmos at Colonial Fleet Party}}</ref>
* [[Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]]

== Ships ==
Yashuman (Battlestar Valkyrie Type)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Jane Espenson]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Edward James Olmos]]

User:Spidersense215

2006-09-23T01:50:14Z

Spidersense215:

Spidersense215 is about three credit hours from having a Master of the Arts degree in Theology. He's Roman Catholic, he takes it seriously.

He's not really all that upset by all the terrible things the humans do to the cylons. After Two Billion deaths there really isn't any room for crybabies.

That is all.

Talk:Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)/Archive 1

2006-09-21T19:06:25Z

Spidersense215:

== Religeous Variance ==

Specifically, in the bit about funerals... It sounds a bit harsh to say that priests do the funerals regardless of the beliefs of the deceased. It makes it sound like they're Muslims getting Catholic funerals. I couldn't tell you the difference between a Methodist funeral and a Protestant funeral if my life depended on it. I think that this (apparently) unilateral handling of funerals is more indicative of the (mostly) unified religeon of the Colonies, rather than a callous behavior of some kind of oppressive theocracy. The only people who seem like they have a truely different religeous idea are Tigh, Adama and Billy, and they don't seem to strongly anti-religeon that they'd roll over at their religeous funeral. I didn't make an edit to reflect this, though, because this is rather subjective. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:23, 10 September 2005 (EDT) (Post Script: I'm working on getting that picture. My Mac's having some technical issues.)

==Unknowns==

:''Rules applying to the priesthood may or may not be the same throughout the Twelve Colonies. It is possible that certain schools of the priesthood practice celibacy, but Chief [[Tyrol]] stated that his father was a priest and his mother an oracle, so it would not be adhered to by all denominations of the religion of the Twelve Colonies.''

:''This may vary considerably from one Colony to the next: [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenons]] believe in the literal truth of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and are quite fundamentalist, while [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Capricans]] seem fairly secular in their treatment of Church-State relations.''

I really don't see the point in noting may-or-may-nots and it-is-not-knowns. The idea here is to state everything we do know - everything we don't state is logically unknown. I'm not opposed to informed speculation, but simply listing the areas we haven't heard about seems fruitless.

== The Chicken And Egg Origin of the Greek/Kobol Gods ==

Since the 13th Tribe populated Earth, all the while bringing their religion from Kobol, this suggests that the ''Greek gods'' are the offshoots to the Kobol gods, not the reverse. This fits with the other Olympian gods not (yet) mentioned in the Kobol religion, but present in the Olympian religion.

This suggestion creates several interesting possibilities for thought.

* There wasn't a human population already on Earth with its own religion. The religion of Kobol grew to form the Olympian gods.
* There ''was'' an existing human population, and the Colonial humans and native terrans merged genes and religion, which might have included other beings we know as the Olympian and quasi-Olympian gods.
* The Tribe somehow lost their technological base of information and went into a new dark age similar to what the Tribes experienced before, increasing their need for divine aid (and expansion of the Kobol religion to form the Olympian components). This also kept the 13th Tribe from returning to know the fate of their brothers in the other Tribes.
* The 13th Tribe landed in the Mediterreanean area of Earth (presuming their Earth is ''"our"'' Earth), in what we historically have called the "seat of human civilization."

The hologram in the [[Tomb of Athena]] suggests that the constellations and celestial bodies of Earth were either known already to the Kobol tribes and were programmed into the Tomb before they left, or a 13th Tribe member from Earth returned to do this. If neither are true, then there is real problem with how the Tomb received this information, and the need or ability for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] to be available (and noted in the Sacred Scrolls) as capable of showing the way to a place the Tribes had not yet visited (unless you count in the "all this has happened and will happen again" part of the Scrolls).

I edited the article with the point in mind as it seemed too strong to suggest otherwise. Thoughts on this or points against the notion? (This also keeps us from blowing brain cells on who created what.) [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:34, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

: See the "Three Exodus" portion of [[Sacred Scrolls]] for something that explains this. It was written by me, so perhaps I'm biased towards it being true, but if it is, then the pictures inside the Tomb of Athena ''do'' fall under the "All this has happened before..." clause. As does the dissemination of the Gods. However, I agree that it's probable that the 13th Tribe brought the Lords of Kobol with them to Earth. It's just that, after that, they also brought them ''back'' to Kobol so that they would be there to be brough to Earth again in the next cycle. I hope that's coherent. It's hard talking in circles like this. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:07, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

::I don't think its necessary or interesting to note that in this much detail - the History article covers the origin of the twelve colonies in substantially more detail. To that end, I'd prefer to revert your comments, if you're not terribly attatched. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:10, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:::Actually it's not that bad. I'm going to clarify it slightly, but it would probably be useful to keep it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:16, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

::::Actually I would say that Humans where born on earth and went to Kobold as said above, not that Kobold brought the gods to earth, '''life here began out there those are the first words of the ancient scrolls and they where told to us by the lords of Kobold countless centuries ago''' The big one there is ''life here'' lets look at that, they are bluntly stating in a way that life on kobold is not native it began out in space, the ties to earth mythology, technology, referances etc can only be explained so many ways.

::::Take adama's ship (the model) it's a classic schoonar, now you can call 'paralell development' but only to an extent we know that the colonies had space technology when they where founded which leads us to believe that the schoonar is older then that the design anyway, we also know apparently from flash backs etc that Kobold was fairly advanced heck we know they had holographic technology... Which in turn points to the fact that maybe they where not native to Kobold either.

::::I'd prefure to look at it something like this, at some stage we the good old 13th colony reached a point where we had FTL technology and in turn we expanded we spread out and colonised the stars, Kobold was one of those maybe at the time we had advanced enough through gene manipulation or the such that the 13 Lords of Kobold where immortals or at least enhanced humans while the 'normals' who lived in peace with the lords where from a Genetic databank (or perhaps we moved there in an ark to escape some cataclism on earth) over time the origins of were they came from began to fade until the exodus from kobold. Which began the whole cycle again.. (in turn this would show the All this has happened before and all this will happen again part).

::::Even still there are disrepancy's within the shows own words.. the 13th Colony left kobold in the early days and settled on a planet around a distant and unknown star.... that has been proven to be a false statement, it was not unknown, the Koboldians KNEW about it, apparently even the scriptures themselves know that from Earth you can look up at the stars and see the 12 other colonies, the Zodiac.. When you take these facts into account the belief that Kobold is the original planet is impossible, because the Only way you can get the exact star alignments for those Zodiac's is within a set distance (5 or so Light years presuming None of the stars within 5 light years make up the Zodic pieces) of Earth.. No Life began on earth and went to kobold it's the only way one can explain so much of what is Canon of the show now. [[User:RobGraham|RobGraham]]21:03 Thursday 29th June Australian EST.

::::: A note: It's "Kobol". The one is a planet, the other is a small dogish creature from D&D (if I remember right). Anyway, I think you're getting tied up in a linear idea of time. You have to keep in mind there that ''is'' no true point of genesis. You can pick any point in the cycle and get back to it. So, take "humans on Earth" as your starting point:

::::: Something makes them leave Earth and move to Kobol. They forget Earth. The Big Bad Thing happens and they flee to the 13 colonies (the Twelves Colonies and Earth). They forget Kobol and Earth. Another Big Bad Thing (Cylons) happens and they flee the Twelve to go find the Thirteenth. Presumably, they settle. They forget Kobol and the Twelve Colonies. Something makes them leave Earth and move to Kobol. They forget Earth. Repeat, repeat.

::::: That's my "Three Exodi" interpretation, anyway. And, in it, from the point of view of the Kobolites, life ''did'' begin "out there" on Earth. That's where they all came from, ''most recently''. I hope that helps explain how everything has already come before. Sure the origin of the zodiacs necessarily comes from Earth. That's incorperated into the theory. --[[User:Day|Day]] <sup>([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]])</sup> 14:55, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

== Zephyr ==

About where in the episode is this mentioned? Is it explicitly stated that the ''Zephyr'' is named after a God, or is it just mentioned? It is my understanding that a zephyr is a gust of wind and, thus, not an imp[robable name for a ship with that meaning. Unless it's explicit, I think this point is ambiguous at best. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:11, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:No, he's right. See [[Wikipedia:Zephyrus|Zephyrus]]. Very nice catch, Spence. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:14, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:: Woah! Zephyrus lived in a cave on ''Thrace''? That can't be accidental. It hadn't occured to me until I saw it, but I knew this. I played a pice a few years ago called the ''March of the Young Thracians'' or something. Anyway, I'm not sure about Zephyr, still. He wasn't one of the "main" Greek Gods, as it were, so I don't think we can make an assumption that he's a Lord of Kobol. They may have lesser gods like the Greeks did that just have never been mentioned, or it might be that some effects dude at Zoic named the ship that because it makes a good name for a ship, not realizing that it's also an allusion to a Greek god. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:22, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:::A link to Kara Thrace's article already noted this, which is where I felt the Zephyr note was credible. Kara's name (as in a human aided by the "winds") and the link to Zephyrus couldn't be a coincidence--RDM had that one down. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:55, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

:::Right, but he ''is'' a god, the Colonials apparently know about him, and we don't have any knowlege on whether the colonials separate the Lords of Kobol from minor deities - so it's probably important to note, and there isn't really a better place for it. (FWIW, they did apparently distinguish between upper and lower demons). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:29, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

== Liturgy ==
Does anyone know what language Elosha's funeral prayer is in at the end of the Mini-series? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:30, 3 October 2005 (EDT)
:You may already know this answer by now (though others may not), but she is singing in sanskrit from text used in the Hindu faith. A good [http://navras.boourns.net/extra.php fan site] about the end title song to "The Matrix Revolutions", called "Navras", shows the Brhadaranyaka Upanisad 1.3.28 exactly as Elosha sung it and as used in that Matrix end title by composer Don Davis and the artist known as Juno Reactor.

::''asato ma sad gamaya''<br/>
::''tamaso ma jyotir gamaya''<br/>
::''mrtyor mamrtam gamaya''<br/>

:In English:

::''From delusion lead me to truth''<br/>
::''From darkness lead me to light''<br/>
::''From death lead me to immortality''<br/>

:I've watched the Mini-Series countless times now, and used the "Navras" music as some of my workout music. I knew about the sanskit origin, but Eiosha's song was familiar to me and I didn't know why until someone here pointed out that it was a source I already knew. Damn fine soundtracks for both the Mini-Series and "The Matrix" movies, by the way. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:50, 13 December 2005 (EST)

::I actually prefer In My Head, Tetsujin, and You All, Everybody. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:53, 14 December 2005 (EST)

:::I don't recognize the last one, but yes, the first two are also great tracks. I always visualize Trinity kicking butt and taking names when those two tracks are on. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:01, 14 December 2005 (EST)

::::Oh come on, surely you must know it: "You all, You all everybody/Acting like such stupid people/wearing expensive clothes/You all, you all, You all, everybody..."--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:38, 14 December 2005 (EST)

::Yes, I incorporated that into the Language in the Twelve Colonies article. That seems to me to be the more appropriate place. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:12, 14 December 2005 (EST)

==Priesthood==

Spencerian added:

:Like denominations on Earth, it is possible that there are varying kinds of priests and customs that share elements of worship of the Lords of Kobol, with some subtle or significant differences. It is probable that, based on their devotion, a Genemon priest (in comparison to one, say, on Caprica) may have a more defined worship or celebration process, or may speak or pay more respects to one or a handful of Lords in preference over others, as Kara Thrace devoted prayer to her specific Lords. The contrast would be akin to the Catholic, Episopal, and Lutheran churches of real-world Earth.

As my fellow contributors know, I frown on plausible but baseless speculation. I don't think this is useful here. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:48, 1 November 2005 (EST)

:Removing. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:08, 3 November 2005 (EST)

==Zoic==

Where and in what capacity did Zoic "release" those names? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:28, 8 December 2005 (EST)

:You know this "reference" as well as I, and I would as well like to see the press release or web site reference where Zoic gave us this information. I know this is circular and that the Great Delete Key of the Citation Jihad may be quivering over that item, but I did note its non-canonical nature, but at the same time, considering its an official production company of the show, its also hard to prove them wrong--this information might be in the mysterious [[series bible]] for all we know. Maybe Joe would know old Ernestborg9's resource. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:26, 8 December 2005 (EST)

::Non-canonical is one thing, but uncited and non-canonical is past my limit. I mean, we could just start making random shit up and say that Zoic said it, and really, nobody would be there to catch us. We have to police ourselves on this. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:35, 8 December 2005 (EST)

:::If this is the case, we need to delete ALL the battlestar pages or rework them to remove those old Zoic references. I'm OK on this, but we have a lot of work to do. The Zoic thing here has been like the "weird uncle" in the family that you don't talk about or leave the daughters with, but let come to family gatherings anyway. Probably time to purge all references to Zoic's battlestars, maybe moving them to the Zoic page, and deleting the rest. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:15, 8 December 2005 (EST)

::::Well, the ''best'' thing to do would be to find the source of the quote, but I haven't had any luck. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:22, 8 December 2005 (EST)

==Atlantia==
How should we handle this reference? The Atlantia and Pacifica were presumably named after the Atlantic and Pacific oceans (in real life). The Atlantic ocean is named for Atlas, not Atlantia, but that's not necessarily implied by anything on-screen (and if it were really named after the ocean, it would probably be Atlantica.) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:00, 8 December 2005 (EST)

:I'd stick to what we know, until we find something better. Atlas was a founder of Atlantis, so we can add this contradicting resource since Pegasus also has differing sources of origin. Greek myth is always full of contradictions anyway. Given that there's no Atlantic Ocean in the Colonies as far as we know, and the Lords tend to be Olympian, not Titan, gods, I'd go for the dryad origin. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:26, 8 December 2005 (EST)

==The Jealous God==
Ricimer said: ''Although it is tantalizing to claim that the Cylon God is the rebelious Lord of Kobol, I don't think #6 has ever claimed that they're the same one.''

:When Six says to Baltar, "Blasphemous, stupid lies. There have never been any other gods, only the One," it seems to me that she's referring to the one Elosha was just speaking about. You may be right that the inference is too tenuous for the article, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:56, 12 December 2005 (EST)

::I love this idea as well, very tantalyzing indeed, but perhaps it belongs in an analysis section to be added to the deleted scenes article. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 23:21, 12 December 2005 (EST)

::: You see although I'd ''like'' to equate the two, I don't think we can ''yet''; it's more for an "Analysis" section. It seems to me that Number Six in that scene was talking about ALL of the Gods that Elosha was talking about, the Jealous God AND the other 11 ''collectively''. It's not clear enough of a statement. I'm kind of secretly hoping that the cylons were taught the advanced technology needed to make humanoid Cylons from the Count Iblis equivalent of this series, which turns out to be the jealous Lord of Kobol; however, as Ron D. Moore has pointed out, that would kind of "gut" the religion of the Cylons: the Cylons are sentient beings in their own right, and all sentient beings have a claim to a soul and a concept of god once they're intelligent enough to grasp such concepts, and turning around and saying "well the whole idea of Cylons having a religion and thinking they have their own souls? Turns out they got duped by a god-like alien, which, although very powerful, ain't really a god, just more like Q from Star Trek or something", saying that would somehow seem to unfairly lessen the Cylons in my opinion. Maybe they can work the two concepts together tactfully (Cylons developed a concept of God BEFORE meeting Count Iblis, and Iblis is claiming to be the "real Cylon god"? , etc.). I don't know. But we don't have a lot to go on. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:43, 13 December 2005 (EST)

:::: I agree with almost everything you've written, and although I like to speculate that ideas, like Iblis, will be tied back into RDM's Cylon religion, I appreciate that this speculation can only exist in a limited form on the wiki. I don't entirely agree with you on the idea that the Cylons religious credibility would be compromised by a manifested God, for this cyclical pattern working itself out in the show reminds me very much of Isaac Asimov's [http://mit.edu/tylerc/www/twt/LQ1.htm The Last Question], which was satisfying in its vast simplicity.

I like to add a little bit, not to sound pompous but there can be some connection from the Cylon god and the Jealous god. The Jealous God started the war because he wanted to be placed above the other ones, starting the so called "War of the Gods." So he is thrown out and loses, so he wanders around and finds the Cylons. Maybe he inspires them to rebel and they do. He sets himself up as their god, and it is concurrent with what the Cylons think of the Colonial Gods; i.e. the other gods are fake, their one god is the true god. The Jealous God wishes to be placed above the others, and ends up finding a lost race, the Cylons and takes them as his own.

I mean, he may have set himself up as this seemingly beneficial, but ultimately devious figure. It may possibly be a correlation to Count Iblis. --[[User:Volostheguardian|Volostheguardian]] 14:09, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

RDM said there wouldn't be a Count Iblis on the Re-Imagined Series, and that the Cylons aren't "well we're Machines that got fooled into thinking we had souls by a higher being"; the Cylons have as much claim to their religion being "real" as the humans do. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 15:06, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

== Religious Issue ==

the Lords of Kobol are a part of a fictional story. the Greek Olympians are worshipped both by people in ancient times and by living people. the religion is not "shared", rather the Lords are based upon the real-world religion. i realize that this may seem a minor issue to some of you, but it is a significant semantic assumption to make that the Lords are the same as the Olympians. [[User:Whateley23|Whateley23]] 01:46, 16 January 2006 (EST)

:Indeed, it does seem like a minor issue. There is nothing wrong with the current phrasing in my opinion, and I will not change it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:09, 16 January 2006 (EST)

:: I think that the assumption is not that both are fictional, but that the story will tell us they are of the same origin (also implying that the story is not fictional, though it clearly is). ''Within the fictional universe of Ronald D. Moorse's'' Battlestar Galactica, The Lords of Kobol and the Greek Olympians are/were the same thing. We also state that Vipers can do such and such and that ''Galactica'' has certain armaments, but we don't make any caveats about the fact that the nukes in the show are actually ''fictional'' nukes for fear of offending nuclear scientists currently working on related technologies. Everything except the articles on actors and other clearly-real things, should be taken as if it were prefaced by the italics above: We know the show's not real, so don't let our comments about it reflect on reality. --[[User:Day|Day]] 15:08, 16 January 2006 (EST)

== Religious Parallels ==
Should we maybe move the parallels between Colonial religion and real world faiths to an independent article? We don't really have a systematic way to present Colonial religion and the parallels exacerbate this problems by further broadening the articles only makes this article harder to understand.--[[User:Spidersense215|Spidersense215]] 14:06, 21 September 2006 (CDT)

Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)

2006-09-21T01:51:48Z

Spidersense215: /* Other Mythological Names in Colonial Culture */

:''This article discusses the religion of the Colonies as seen in the [[Re-imagined Series]]. For summary information on the Kobollian religion from the [[Original Series]], see [[Kobollian Faith]].''

{{Twelve Colonies Series}}
The religion of the Twelve Colonies, which the various characters of Battlestar Galactica practice to greater or lesser extent, is a polytheistic faith shared with real-life [[Wikipedia:Greek mythology|Greek mythology]], with a strong emphasis on the philosophy of [[Wikipedia:Eternal return|eternal return]].

==Origin==
There is substantial circumstantial evidence that people of Kobol originated from the planet [[Earth]], and it is also known that one of the thirteen tribes later returned there. The similarity in beliefs of the Colonials and the ancient Greeks is probably not coincidental, although it is not yet clear which gave rise to the other. See [[History of the Twelve Colonies]] and [[Sacred Scrolls]] for a more detailed analysis.

In the burial scene of the [[Miniseries]], Adama states "Life here began out there," reminding the assembly that this was the first line of the sacred scrolls, told to them by the Lords Of Kobol uncounted centuries ago.

==Belief==

===The Lords of Kobol===

Colonial religion is centered on the Lords of Kobol, analogous to the [[Greek Gods]]. So far within the series, a total of six Lords of Kobol have been explicitly identified:

* [[Zeus]] - He was the father of the gods. [[Tom Zarek]] has twice referred to [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] as "Zeus" ([[Bastille Day]], [[The Farm]]).
* [[Apollo, Lord of Kobol|Apollo]] - He was Zeus' son, said to be the god of the hunt and of healing ([[Bastille Day]]).
* [[Artemis]] - ([[Flesh and Bone]])
* [[Aphrodite]] - ([[Flesh and Bone]])
* [[Athena, Lord of Kobol|Athena]] - She committed suicide "out of despair over the Exodus of the thirteen tribes" ([[Home, Part II]]). Her [[Tomb of Athena|tomb]] holds a map to [[Earth]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).
* [[Hera, Lord of Kobol|Hera]] - ([[Home, Part II]])

According to the [[Sacred Scrolls]], the gods once shared a paradise-like existence with the people of [[Kobol]]. Later circumstances forced the exodus of the human population of Kobol to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|the Twelve Colonies]] and [[Earth]], and lead to Athena's suicide. See [[History of the Twelve Colonies]] for more.

The existence of the Lords of Kobol is attested to by the survival of numerous artifacts, including the [[Arrow of Apollo]], the [[Tomb of Athena]] and the [[Gates of Hera]]. However, although she accepts their historicity, [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], a [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]], has called their divinity into question.

There is a notion in fan circles that there are twelve lords of Kobol, by analogy to the twelve Cylon models and twelve Colonies, and perhaps the [[Wikipedia:Twelve Olympians|Twelve Olympians]] of Greek mythology. A post in RDM's blog loosely addresses this.

:Q: "Twelve cylon models and twelve Olympian gods seems too much of coincidence to me. Is there any connection? "
:RDM: And Twelve Colonies. Coincidence....?" ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/03/index.html#a000023 RDM, March 12, 2005])

===The Jealous God===

In a [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/mov/bsg_del_112_regret.mov scene] cut from the episode "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]", [[Elosha]] states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began."

===The Path of Olympus===

[[Tom Zarek]] conveys to [[Laura Roslin]] and members of her command staff of [[Laura Roslin faction|factioners]] the news that Commander [[William Adama]] had resumed command of ''[[Galactica]]'' after the attempt on his life by saying: "Zeus has returned to '''Olympus''' " ([[The Farm]]).

In Greek mythology, the home of the gods on Earth resided high atop Greece's highest mountain, Mount Olympus, at a time where access to the mountain summit would be almost impossible with the inhabitants' technology of that age. By Zarek's comment we can infer that Colonial religion appears to acknowledge the existence of a place called Olympus. It cannot yet be determined, however, if Olympus was thought of as the residence of the gods at a specific physical or ''metaphysical'' location of Kobol, as there has been no mention of Olympus elsewhere in the series. If Olympus is a metaphysical locale, this may contradict [[Elosha]]'s comment that the gods and man lived on Kobol together in harmony.

===Other Mythological Names in Colonial Culture===

Various items have been identified which are apparently named after other gods and legendary figures, although these have not been explicitly identified as Lords of Kobol.

* [[Triton]] - ([[Miniseries]]) - The namesake of a battlestar lost in the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]].
* [[Atlantia]] - ([[Miniseries]]) - The name of a [[Wikipedia:Hamadryad|hamadryad]], a form of nymph. Namesake of another battlestar lost in the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. Could also be a reference to the lengend of Atlantis, written by Plato.
* [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]] - A legendary horse and namesake of Admiral [[Helena Cain]]'s [[Mercury class battlestar]].
* [[Zephyr]] - ([[Fragged]]) - A ship in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] is named after this god.
* [[Mercury]] - The lead ship of the [[Mercury class battlestar|Mercury class]], apparently named for the Roman version of the Greek god Hermes.
* Pluto - Namesake of the element [[Wikipedia:Plutonium|Plutonium]] mentioned in the episode "[[Bastille Day]]", and Roman version of the Greek god Hades.
* Pythia - An oracle who's prophetic writings relate to the events of Battlestar. The Pythia was the name for the oracle at Delphi in Greece.
* The "Veil of Tears" - A religious euphanism for death, used by [[Crashdown]] during the funeral scene in [[Fragged]].

===The Cycle of Time===

''"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."''

According to [[Gaius Baltar]], this line from the Pythian Prophecy is very well known ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]). [[Laura Roslin]] later expands on it, reminding [[Kara Thrace]],

:"If you believe in the gods, then you believe in the cycle of time that we are all playing our parts in a story that is told again, and again, and again throughout eternity" ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

The notion of a circular progression of time (also known as [[Wikipedia:eternal return|eternal return]] or eternal recurrence) is a common theme in other faiths, particularly [[Wikipedia:Maya#Religion|Mayan]] mythology and is a cornerstone of the Hindu and Buddhist faiths. Moreover, [[Wikipedia:Stoic|Stoic]] philosophy did believe in the concept of ekpyrosis, the fire which consumes the old world and signals the birth of a new world, identical to the old, for a recurring cycle of birth, death and rebirth. Various events throughout the series have led some characters to believe that they are playing out another turn of this cycle. See [[Sacred Scrolls]] for more detailed analysis.

===Sanctity of Life===

According to the Sacred Scrolls, abortion is "an abomination in the eyes of the Gods". The more fundamentalist [[Gemenon]]s strictly adhere to this commandment, however the more secular Colonies such as Caprica apparently do not follow this as strictly: officially, Colonies-wide Federal law guaranteed a woman the right to an abortion, at least at the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

==Individual Practice==

The Colonials display a wide spectrum of religious practice, ranging from [[Billy Keikeya]]'s atheism ([[Home, Part II]], [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/207/deleted4.html cut scene]) to Corporal [[Venner]]'s literalistic readings of the Sacred Scrolls. Colonials express their faith in a number of ways.

===Idols===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:Idols.jpg|100px]]</div>
At the end of the episode "[[Flesh and Bone]]", Kara Thrace, a devotee of Artemis and Aphrodite (as stated by [[Leoben Conoy]] in the same episode), prays to them on Conoy's behalf using figurines that bear a similarity to classic representations of Artemis and Athena. Artemis is depicted with her bow and arrow, and Athena with her helmet of war.
<br clear="both">

===Rosaries===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:Rosary.jpg|100px]]</div>
When Roslin begins to suffer from Chamalla withdrawal in "[[Fragged]]", Corporal [[Venner]], a fundamentalist from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], anxiously clutches a set of white prayer beads.
<br clear="both">
===Group prayer===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:The_Farm-Group_Worship.jpg|100px]]</div>
Some prisoners on the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' seeking rehabilitation have turned to group prayer. In the episode "[[The Farm]]", they greet Laura Roslin as a prophet and she provides them with a blessing.

Priestess [[Elosha]] sings a group prayer in the service for the dead at the conclusion of the [[Miniseries]]. Curiously, the language she sings is Sanskrit, a classical language of real-world Earth's Hindu/Indian peoples. More about the verses that she sings and their meaning can be found in the [[Language in the Twelve Colonies#Liturgy|Language in the Twelve Colonies]] article.''<br clear="both">

===Artifacts===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:Bsg-arrow-apollo.jpg|75px]]</div>
Despite Gemenon's fundamentalist climate, the city of [[Delphi]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] was apparently of a mind to store an important religious artifact, the [[Arrow of Apollo]], in a [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies|museum]], rather than a devotional institution.
<br clear="both">

==The Priesthood==

The separation of church and state is less rigorous in the Colonies than in the contemporary United States. Laura Roslin [[Case Orange|is sworn into the presidency]] by a priest, [[Elosha]], who continues on in an advisory capacity within Roslin's administration. Priests also preside over military funerals, without regard for the beliefs of the deceased. That this is a matter of course is perhaps indicative of the religious homogeneity of the Colonies (unlike the religious heterogeneity of real-life Earth and the presence of representatives and followers of different religions in the armed forces of various nations on Earth).

Priests in the Twelve Colonies are apparently not required to practice celibacy, as in some Christian denominations. In the episode "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]", Chief [[Galen Tyrol]] states that his father was a priest and his mother an oracle.

According to Billy Keikeya, some priests use the [[Chamalla]] plant for its hallucinogenic properties. The prescient dreams it imparted to Laura Roslin may imply the use of something similar by [[Pythia]], an ancient prophet.

== Cylon Interpretations ==

Many Cylon agents show a strict, firm belief in a monotheistic God. When agents such as Leoben Conoy, the brothers Cavil, and Caprica Boomer begin talking of Cylon beliefs, they are ridiculed (and when Roslin is present, get thrown out the airlock). They refer to the Lords of Kobol as "false idols". They also claim to have more insight into Colonial religion than the Colonials themselves, as shown by [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)]] in "[[Home, Part II]]".

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial History (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Command Navigation Program/Archive 1

2006-04-27T19:32:10Z

Spidersense215: What did it actually do?

==How CNP Infiltration Differs from Infection==

My understanding is that, while the CNP is obviously functional and works as designed, the CNP's backdoors was what made it dangerous. Whether the CNP's backdoors allowed activation of a virus, Trojan, or system command access seems consistent now with our viewing the behavior of a Cylon virus on ''Galactica'' in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", although the CNP was never loaded on their computers.

It's reasonable to assume that post-war (modern) Colonial ships were still not easily hackable despite their advancements, so it took the CNP backdoors to make that happen. As far as ''Galactica'' was concerned, it's relatively primitive computers were not as advanced as those used on other Battlestars and were more likely to be directly infected, as done in "[[Scattered]]""--IF they were accessible by [[wireless]]. Obviously the computers were never available for infection until the events of "Scattered".

It's likely that the process of networking ''Galactica's'' computers with hard lines at Gaeta's console (Gaeta mentions in "Scattered" that he would network the FTL computer with the Navigation, Damage Control, and Fire Control computers) also interfaced them to the comm channels of the ship and to ship's wireless by default. Otherwise, Gaeta would not be fearful of simply creating a closed network to make the calculations. Networking any computers on ''Galactica'' would automatically create a wireless portal to them. Interesting Colonial technology in that way; it's like two laptops that automatically form a wireless connection when they want to share data.

So the Raider's programming may be two-fold. Option one: Attempt access to an enemy ship via a CNP backdoor, where it may activate a Trojan Horse program in the CNP or directly command the CNP to stop operation of the ship. Option two: Use First War tactics and attempt to hack and infect a computer that's available by wireless. Just my take on it, but it's consistent with show events. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:46, 23 September 2005 (EDT)

:Strictly speaking, [[Wikipedia:Computer virus|Computer virus]]es and [[Wikipedia:Computer worm|worms]] are defined by their ability to ''proliferate''. It would be most proper to state that the CNP (or part of it) was a Cylon-designed [[Wikipedia:Trojan horse (computing)|Trojan horse]].

:The Logic Bomb that infected Galactica's systems was obviously very different - either a remote [[Wikipedia:exploit (computer security)|exploit]] or the work of a Cylon agent onboard ''Galactica'', as I speculated on the "[[Scattered]]" page. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:53, 23 September 2005 (EDT)

:: A Trojan Horse is typically a malevalent application disguised as a benevolent one, with no "good" code within. Trojans generally do not activate themselves (as viruses do) or proliferate themselves (as worms do). The CNP was a functional program with backdoors that allowed commands, of which shut down commands, commands to activate a hidden virus or worm inside the CNP code, or copy commands to receive and activate a new virus would work. In "Scattered", ''Galactica'' becomes infected by the Cylon virus transmitted by the attacking fleet using old-school War I tactics--that I'm pretty certain of at this point since we have no other data to support otherwise, and fits ''Galactica's'' technology base. Doesn't mean there wasn't someone on the inside that copied back the virus code on a low-level system into ''Galactica'' after the initial purge in "Scattered." We already know of one or two Cylon infiltrators (Godfrey, Biers), and at least 6 others remain at large. The virus created the Logic Bomb...or the Logic Bomb was implanted by an infiltrator, yes, but we have no way of knowing just yet.[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:25, 23 September 2005 (EDT)

==CNP on Civilian Ships==

In the miniseries, Doral approaches Baltar with a report he requested: "You asked for a report on how many civilian ships had your CNP program?" Seems pretty clear to me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:43, 3 January 2006 (EST)

==Still need clarification==

Okay, my thinking was that the CNP backdoors allowed a virus to enter which in turn shut down their systems; I mean when we hear about windows having a flaw, it's "a flaw that a virus could exploit". Of course I'm not a computer expert, but it seems like a virus exploiting the CNP flaws.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 14:03, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:Well, when you're not inside the castle (like most viruses), your only options are to enter by whatever means are available. But when you have a bad guy who helps '''design and build the castle''', you have the potential not only for intentional design flaws that might be exploited, but also the opportunity to have people inside the castle before the fighting begins. They see the signal flare and they can open the gates (allowing more viruses entry) and/or cause damage of their own. Baltar's Caprica-Six might have inserted hidden commands that shut things down, or that opened up exploits for outsiders to take advantage of, or possibly both. Real-life viruses tend to do the same, opening holes for other viruses even as they are doing damage themselves. Whether or not the hidden programming inside the CNP did the damage itself, or opened up the exploits for the outside viruses to take advantage of, credit for the kill would still likely fall to the CNP programming, for making it all possible. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:14, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

::I thought it was like programmed in that would do the same thing. I think Six said, I rewrote half your algorthims. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 16:34, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Six was referring to Baltar's programming of the CNP itself, of which he wasn't doing a very good job at perfecting. Six made it work, but she also added a bit of extras. If the CNP was a castle, Six added a special magician that, on the Cylon's command, turned its "king" (commander/pilot) into a jester and surrendered the castle instantly. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:43, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:We've had this conclusion several times, so I'm being forced to use bold text here to make sure my point is clear: '''There was. no. virus.''' The CNP included a backdoor which allowed the cylons to dial in and shut down their systems at will. Classic trojan horse. No virus involved. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:19, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
::I didn't know that's what a Trojan did. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 21:31, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Don't worry; I'm sure under some yet newer taxonomy it's, e.g., a "hedgehog" or a "plaguecarrier." At least some of the experts on computer security truly enjoy inventing new terminology; years ago, all would have been called a virus, and implementation idiosyncracies would be left to the specific name. For future reference, one can usually get away with being accurate, if highly broad, by calling the item "malware." --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 22:07, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I think the reason you have that impression was that viruses actually were the most common type of malware back in the floppy disk era. Most e-mail "viruses" are actually worms, distinguished by their ability to replicate on their own, without piggybacking on another executable which they must "infect". The definition of a trojan horse is essentially something installed in good faith with a hidden malevolent purpose. This sort of, but does not quite perfectly include the idea of a "backdoor", which is really the best possible term to describe the CNP. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:37, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::I'm well aware of the distinctions, and I think that the simple fact that boot-sector-overriding programs, including some with beneficial purposes like real-time encryption of disk access, and corruptions of normal user programs use the same term is a clear indication that initially they were made in far less detail. For the most part, jargon exists to identify a community and mystify victi\b\b\b\b\bcustomers. Originally, malware lacked the frequency, variety, or crystalization of attack patterns necessary for the irksome, mostly useless nit-picking of current terminology. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 23:34, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::Still, I think it behooves us not to misuse that terminology, nit-picking as it may be. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:45, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
::: A really good term is ''worm''. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 22:47, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
::::A worm has to be self-propagating. The CNP isn't. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:05, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== What did it actually do? ==

What was the CNP designed to do, excatly? What were the advantages over the previous system?

Galen Tyrol

2006-04-27T19:07:16Z

Spidersense215:

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Galen Tyrol promo.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]]
|birthname= Galen Tyrol
|callsign= "Chief" (nickname)
|death=
|parents= An unnamed Oracle (mother) and a Priest (father).
|siblings=
|children=One unborn child with Cally
|marital status= Married to [[Cally]]
|role= Union Organizer, [[New Caprica]]; former Senior NCO, Deck Crew 5, [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''
|rank= Chief Petty Officer
|actor= [[Aaron Douglas]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

== Biography ==

=== Background ===

'''Chief Petty Officer Galen Tyrol''' is a much-admired NCO aboard the ''[[Galactica]]''. He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including the battlestars ''[[Columbia]]'', ''[[Atlantia]]'', and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' ([[Resistance]]). He has served under [[William Adama]] for a number of years, and has considerable respect for the Commander - a feeling that is reciprocated. Indeed, he admires Adama to such a degree that he has modelled his own style of leadership on that of Adama: firm, fair, and willing to go to the fullest degree in support of his crew.

However, when people under his responsibility are injured, threatened or killed, Tyrol becomes rather irrational, angry, and reckless in his actions, to the point of further endangering his people or his reputation with senior officers. Prime examples of his lack of emotional control includes the scenes before the ship venting after the nuke hit and cursing [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] in front of [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] for the vent and loss of 85 of his people ([[Miniseries]]), and saving a mortally-wounded crewmate while leaving himself and [[Cally]] highly vulnerable in "[[Scattered]]". Tyrol's tryst with [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] and a subsequent cover-up attempt in "[[Litmus]]" resulted in the jailing of Specialist [[Socinus]], who was trying to protect Tyrol.

Originally leading [[Deck Crew 5]], a team of 15 deckhands and specialists, since the Cylon Attack he has become the most senior and experienced NCO on the ''Galactica''.

=== Cylon Attack ===

At the time of the Cylon Attack, as well as leading his deck crew, Tyrol is overseeing the refurbishment and restoration of [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] Mark II N7242C - the Viper originally flown by William Adama at the time of the [[Cylon War]] ([[Miniseries]]).

Following the attack, with the ''Galactica'' undermanned, Tyrol also performs the function of senior Damage Control officer ([[Miniseries]] / [[Water]]), a role that brings him into conflict with [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] after the ''Galactica'' is struck by a Cylon nuclear warhead.

=== Relationship with Sharon Valerii ===

For several months prior to the Cylon attack, and in its aftermath, Tyrol has been engaged in an affair with Lieutenant (JG) [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], a [[Raptor]] pilot aboard the ''Galactica''. Despite the fact the relationship breaks military protocol, senior officers on the ship turn a blind eye to it, while Tyrol's own crew treat it with fond amusement.

When the water supplies on the ''Galactica'' are sabotaged, Tyrol is placed in an awkward position: by her own admmission, Valerii knows explosives were missing from a small-arms locker - potentially making her a suspect - and he is the principal DC investigator into the cause of the explosions which wreck the water tanks. Torn between love and duty, the situation prompts him to hide evidence and allow a theory that the walls of the tanks simply collapsed from fatigue resulting from damage the ''Galactica'' received from a nuclear warhead in the Cylon attack ([[Water]] / [[Miniseries]]).

Following the sabotage attempt, Valerii is ordered to end her relationship with Tyrol ([[Bastille Day]]) as a part of a general tightening-up of security and discipline on ship, only to have Tyrol's deck crew help the two of them to continue to meet in greater secret ([[Litmus]]).

Tyrol's world is thrown further into turmoil when both he and Valerii become the prime suspects in an investigation into how a Cylon agent (a copy of [[Aaron Doral]]) managed to get aboard the ''Galactica'', kill a guard, steal explosives and them blow himself up in a ship's corridor, almost killing Adama and Tigh ([[Litmus]]). When [[Socinus|one of his own Specialists]] is thrown in the brig for dereliction of duty which may have enabled the Cylon to access a weapons locker and steal the explosives, Tyrol is shocked into re-thinking his relationship with Valerii, and ends it himself.

While they continue to encounter one another professionallly - their work means they can hardly avoid one another - Tyrol and Valerii now have an uneasy distance between each other, and Valerii's actions around a captured Cylon [[Raider]] have begun to disturb Tyrol.

=== Kobol ===

When [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] discovers the planet believed to be [[Kobol]], Tyrol arranges for Socinus' release and later berates the specialist for lying to cover for him. Thereafter, Tyrol is part of the team assembled on the ill-fated recon Kobol on the [[Raptor 1]], which then crashlands near the ruins of the [[Tomb of Athena]]. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])

While Tyrol was the more experienced leader, his non-commissioned status left Lt. [[Crashdown]] in charge of the survivors. When Crashdown blamed [[Tarn]] for leaving a needed med kit behind -- Socinus was injured during the crash and a drug called [[serisone]] was needed to help him breathe -- Tyrol stepped in, recommending that he and Cally accompany Tarn. After successfully retrieving the kit from the Raptor crash site and heading back to the party, the trio was ambushed and Tarn was the only one killed. ([[Scattered]]) Eventually, he and Cally make it back to the party, only to find out that it is too late. With no other alternative, Tyrol euthanized Socinus with an overdose of [[morpha]] from both medkits. ([[Valley of Darkness]])

Upon discovering that the Cylons are setting up an anti-aircraft missle battery, Crashdown plans a strike to take the unit (and its accompanying [[DRADIS]] dish) out of operation. While the others of his party, notably Baltar and Cally, attempt to voice their indignation of such a plan, Tyrol firmly reminds them that Crashdown is in charge. Despite Tyrol's own misgivings of how the plan is to be executed, they follow through to the point right before the attack.

When it became clear that there were five Cylons at the battery, Cally refused to act as a distraction. Tyrol attempted to diffuse the situation by trying to state that the DRADIS dish was undefended; all that needed to be done was to destroy that, and the turret could not automatically target any incoming [[SAR]] operation. Crashdown has a breakdown and irrationally threatens to kill Cally, prompting Baltar to kill Crashdown.

As the command officer, per se, Tyrol later destroyed the DRADIS dish as the Cylons pursued them towards it. Tyrol then made a stand against the Cylons, screaming and firing his pistol at them. The Cylons were all killed; a surprised Tyrol turned around and saw that a [[Raptor]], preserved by Tyrol's destruction of the dish, had destroyed the Centurions. ([[Fragged]]).

=== After Kobol ===

Tyrol was arrested and interrogated by Colonel Tigh, due to his relationship with Commander Adama's would-be assassin. Tigh accused him of being part of the plot to kill Adama, throwing him in the same cell as Valerii. In order to extract information from Valerii, Baltar injected a drug that induced a systemic shutdown of Tyrol's organs. (This was during an alleged attempt to draw blood from Tyrol for Baltar's Cylon detector.) After extracting the number of Cylons in the Fleet from Valerii's subconscious, Tyrol was spared a painful death -- and was eventually proven to be a bona-fide human.

Tyrol was present when his own deckhand, Cally, killed Valerii, as Tyrol accompanied the security escort to Valerii's testing cell ([[Resistance]]). This act caused Tyrol to withdraw more from interaction with his own staff, many of which were already treating him coldly from his interaction with the now-confirmed Cylon copy of Valerii.

As with many on ''Galactica'', the stress of working without relief in sight or with little hope began to take its toll on Tyrol. For him, the challenge of keeping the old Vipers running with very few spare parts and sometimes extensive damage became too much to manage. Under pressure from [[CAG]] [[Lee Adama]] to keep his Vipers flying, and mostly because he had little else to do, he scribbled out a design for a new fighter and began to assemble it from basic metals and parts ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). Initially, his flight crews were skeptical that the Chief's project was anything but a pipe dream. But word soon spread as the fuselage formed and Tyrol's dream became reality. While Colonel Tigh was visibly against the project at first, Commander Adama noticed that the project, for whatever outcome it might yield, gave the crew something to strive for, something to hope for, and tacitly allowed off-duty crew to work on the project. Many, including [[Anastasia Dualla]] from the [[CIC]], and [[Kara Thrace]], lent a hand.

Tyrol's group was stuck when trying to place a skin on the new fighter, since spare parts were reserved for the Vipers. But Helo suggested carbon composite materials as an alternative to cover the ship. This solved the covering but added a significant new ability: Stealth. The carbon composites would make the new fighter practically invisible to [[DRADIS]] detection.

After the ship's [[Logic bomb]] crisis, the new fighter, named the [[Blackbird]], was given a trial flight by Kara Thrace, with very good results. In a ceremony, President Roslin christened the fighter, and Tyrol revealed the nickname of the fighter in honor of the President: ''Laura''.

=== Helo's Return ===

After the return of [[Karl Agathon]] and another version of Sharon Valerii, who happens to be pregnant with Agathon's child, the two attempt to reconcile their feelings for the biological creation. Helo and Tyrol eventually have a fistfight with lots of namecalling over what the Sharons were, but in reality, both were upset over the fact that the two Cylon copies were real people that they loved despite the reality of what they were ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]), leading them to what amounted to an uneasy truce.

Later on, after the appearance of Admiral [[Helena Cain]] and the advanced [[Mercury-class]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', he and Agathon stop Lt. [[Alistair Thorne]] from raping Sharon and Tyrol accidentally kills Thorne in the process. Tyrol and Agathon are summarily arrested and transfered to ''Pegasus'' for court martial, against Commander Adama's objections. However, Admiral Cain's "court martial" is over before Adama even knew it began, and she sentenced both to be executed for murder and treason. This prompted Adama to launch Vipers and a Raptor loaded with a marine strike team to recover them both ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

Helo and Tyrol receive a stay of execution through the efforts of [[Laura Roslin]] while the two battlestar commanders prepare to destroy the [[Resurrection Ship]] and its Cylon attack fleet that has followed ''Galactica''. Tyrol admits to his difficulty with dealing with the existence of the second Sharon, and tells Helo that he's got to "let it go", an idea that Helo supports, both understanding each other's take on the situation.

The two prisoners are seen receiving two sets of visitors, one welcome, one not. First, Lieutenant Adama visits them to tell them how close ''Galactica'' came to a shooting war with ''Pegasus'' ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]), asking the two, "Just how many kinds of stupid ''are'' you?" A day or so later, Specialists [[Vireem]] and [[Gage]] bind and beat the two prisoners in retaliation for the death of Lieutenant Thorne. [[Executive officer]] [[Jack Fisk]] comes to break up the beating, but refuses the prisoners' thanks as he was fond of Thorne himself.

After the escaped Cylon agent [[Gina]] escapes and shoots Admiral Cain, killing her, Tyrol and Helo are released and return to ''Galactica.'' Both Tyrol and Helo visit Sharon Valerii at her specialized cell. She happily greets Helo, but completely ignores Tyrol. He gets the hint and soon leaves the room, still unable to recover from the memory of the Sharon he knew as "Boomer."

=== Depression and Suicidal Yearnings ===
Tyrol also begins to experience a recurring nightmare in which he jumps from the upper portion of the flight deck to his death. [[Cally]] finds him asleep but twitching on the ''Galactica'' deck, but when she attempts to wake him, he attacks her in a frenzied rage, beating her savagely.

Deeply distressed by what he had done, Tyrol requested counselling with a priest, and was assigned [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]. After some time with Tyrol, Cavil identifies the source of Tyrol's anxiety as arising from fear that he is a [[Cylon agent|Cylon sleeper agent]], much like [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] was. Tyrol points out that Sharon was totally convinced by her programming that she was human; Tyrol is haunted by the fear that it was impossible to truly know if you were a Cylon or not. Cavil assures him that he was not, quipping that he knew "because I'm a Cylon and I've never seen you at any of the meetings.".

[[Cavil]] tells him to get back to work, which is where his real family is, and argues that they, [[Deck Crew 5|the deck crew]], love him, "even Cally, ''especially'' Cally" ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Tyrol was subsequently responsible for exposing [[Cavil]] as a Cylon agent when he recognized him as one of the returnees from the rescue mission to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. Upon realizing this, Tyrol tackled Cavil, called for security, and stated 'Code Blue.'
[[Image:Tyrol LDYBII.JPG|thumb|Tyrol as Union President ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])]]
===Union President===
A year later, Tyrol lived in [[New Caprica City]] and was the president of the Worker's Union, a vocal opponent of President Baltar's administration. By this point, he appeared to have married Cally, who was pregnant 380 days after settling on the planet. Tyrol and Cally witnessed the arrival of the Cylons on the planet, and went to [[Kara Thrace]] for guidance. She tells him to "fight them until we can't." ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

== Note ==

*[[Wikipedia:Galen|Galen]] is the name of a famed Greek doctor, who was first to argue that the mind was in the brain not the heart. This may be construed as irony, given Tyrol's part in the ongoing story.
*Tyrol's first name, Galen, was first revealed in Ron D. Moore's Podcast during Season 1, but it was not mentioned on screen until the Season 2 episode "[[Resistance]]".
*[[Wikipedia:Tyrol|Tyrol]] (or Tirol) is the name of a region divided between western Austria and northern Italy.
*Ron D. Moore stated in an [http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/2212/2/| interview with Now Playing Magazine] on 16 Sept, 2005 that Chief Tyrol is a Gemenon. This is in keeping with previously established facts about him: Gemenons are very religious, and Tyrol's father was a priest and his mother was an oracle.
*Ron Moore explains in the DVD commentary for the [[Miniseries]] that Chief Tyrol was originally supposed to be a fairly small role, and in the first script of the Miniseries he only had about 15 lines. However, Aaron Douglas was so good at ad libbing new lines for scenes as production moved foward that Moore kept writing him into a bigger character. Going into season 1, Tyrol would originally have been defined by his relationship to Boomer, with suspicion that she might be a Cylon only coming out towards the end of the season. However, instead of this Boomer and Tyrol's relationship became strained and ended early in season 1, and Tyrol was expanded as a character not simply defined by Boomer.

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[[Category:A to Z|Tyrol, Galen]]
[[Category:Characters|Tyrol, Galen]]
[[Category:RDM|Tyrol, Galen]]
[[Category:People from Gemenon|Tyrol, Galen]]

[[es:Galen Tyrol]]