Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Small arms

2008-07-27T12:04:46Z

Sgt Teta:

:''The following article lists many of the real world weapons used as props in the series. For a more general article on the weapons technology of ''Battlestar Galactica'' see: [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series]]. Consequently, for the small arms from the [[Original Series]], see: [[Laser pistol]].''

Not much description has been given about the small arms that are used in the re-imagined ''Battlestar Galactica'', but nearly all of the firearms that the Colonial forces carry are real weapons, either used without modifications or slightly changed to make them less recognizable.

==Handguns==
[[Image:OldPistol Resistance.JPG|thumb|left|Season 1 style pistol ([[Resistance]]).]]
The standard-issue Colonial sidearm (introduced in the [[Miniseries]]) is according to Ron Moore's commentary an exact replica of the (fictional) sidearm used in the movie ''[[w:Blade Runner|Blade Runner]]'' (also starring [[Edward James Olmos]]) <ref>However, contrary to Moore's comment, the pistols aren't identical. While the Colonial sidearm is obviously modeled after the [http://props.steinschneider.com/brblaster/bldrpics01.htm ''Blade Runner'' blaster], the guns differ in many details.</ref>. The standard service handgun used by the Colonial forces appears to be a modernized version of the [[w:LeMat|LeMat revolver]] of the US Civil War, with a revolver-like pistol grip and a large barrel beneath the primary barrel. From closer examination of the handgun, it appears that the handgun used in the Miniseries and Season 1 was built around a [[Wikipedia:Smith & Wesson|Smith & Wesson]] K-Frame or L-Frame revolver. This sidearm is nicknamed the "Colonial Clamshell" by a propmaster in David Eick's 18th video blog.

The Miniseries version had hardly any real functionality and was redesigned almost from scratch for Season 1 when scripts required more specific actions with the guns. After that it was redesigned again and, starting with the early second season, the original sidearms have been nearly completely replaced by the [[w:Five-seveN|Fabrique Nationale Five-seveN]], also dressed up with an underbarrel explosive launcher. This changeover allows for real semi-automatic fire and on-screen reloads ([[Home, Part II]]), and makes use of the existing stores of 5.7 x 28 mm (FN P-90) blank ammunition.
[[Image:Sidearm Flightofthephoenix.JPG|thumb|Apollo, Starbuck, and Hotdog on the [[firing range]] with FN Five-seveNs ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).]]

The [[w:HK P9|Heckler & Koch P9]] is seen, along with an [http://www.weapon.envy.nu/gun/int.html Intratec Cat-9] in "[[Colonial Day]]".

The [http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg54-e.htm Vektor CP1] has also made several appearances ("[[Bastille Day]]", "[[Black Market]]", "[[Sacrifice]]"); this is odd given a safety recall issued in 2000.

Samuel Anders uses a [[w:MK23 Mod 0|Heckler & Koch Mark 23]] in "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]" and the Israeli [[w:Desert Eagle|Desert Eagle]] in "[[Downloaded]]".

The Russian-made [[w:Makarov PM|Makarov PM]] handgun and the Russian-made [[w:Stechkin APS|Stechkin APS]] handgun have made an appearance in the Season 2 episode "[[Sacrifice]]".

The [[Stallion]] appears "[[Home, Part II]]". Based on the COP 357 Derringer <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Single-Shot-Pistols/COP_357.htm|title=COP 357 Derringer|date=|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=HTML|language=en}}</ref>, designed as a police off-duty/backup weapon, this four shot derringer fires .357 Magnum rounds. The name "Stallion" may be a production in-joke on the Marushin's model name, "COP 357", whose name is shared in part with the ubiquitous ''Colt'' .357 handgun. This pistol was also used in ''[[w:Blade Runner|Blade Runner]]''.

A very slightly disguised Czech [[w:Vz 52 (pistol)|CZ-52 service pistol]] is used by the Cylons on New Caprica. This is the gun that Doral shoots Caprica Six with and threatens Baltar with in "[[Precipice]]". It is also the same gun that Gaeta almost shoots Baltar with in "[[Exodus, Part II]]" and in turn almost shoots D'Anna. The gun was probably chosen for the futuristic "rocketeer" shape and because it is extremely inexpensive as a military surplus collectible. Interestingly this gun is very reliable, extremely accurate and is about as effective at penetrating armor as the FN Five SeveN, which costs about ten times as much.

Admiral [[Helena Cain|Cain]] has a large collection of older firearms in her office. Among her pistols are a [[w:Luger P08 pistol|9mm Luger Parabellum]] (P08) and a Webley Model 1909 ("[[Pegasus]]", "[[The Captain's Hand]]").

==Submachine guns==

[[Image:UMP Skorpion Resistance.JPG|thumb|Thrace's Vz 61's and Anders's UMP ([[Resistance]])]]
One of the real firearms that was seen on a regular basis in ''Battlestar Galactica'''s first season is the Belgian [[w:FN P90|Fabrique Nationale P90 submachine gun]] which is seen in the hands of the [[Colonial Marine Corps|Marines]] aboard ''Galactica''. The weapon is notable for its unusual 5.7x28 round, designed to pierce body armor. Its unusual magazine placement and design (resting on top with rounds perpendicular to the barrel) means each cartridge is rotated 90 degrees as it is fed.

The FN P90 submachine gun is featured extensively in both [[w:Stargate SG-1|''Stargate SG-1'']] and [[w:Stargate Atlantis|''Stargate Atlantis'']] (which are also filmed in Vancouver alongside ''Battlestar Galactica''). In Season 2, the P90 was replaced by a different weapon (see [[#Rifles and Carbines|Rifles and Carbines]]).

[[Image:Thompson SubmachineGun.jpg|thumb|right|Thompson submachine gun in Cain's office ([[The Captain's Hand]]).]]
Another real-life submachine guns that made an appearance is the German [[w:HK UMP|Heckler & Koch UMP]]. In the episode "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]", [[Samuel Anders]] is armed with one. It is also in use by ''Pegasus's'' Marines. Other weapons seen this episode are the Czech [[Wikipedia:Vz_61|Vz 61 machine pistol]], wielded akimbo by [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]], and the American [[w:Ruger MP9|Ruger MP9]] being wielded by [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] when the two characters encounter Samuel Anders and his resistance fighters. 
The Skorpion is also carried by Chief Tyrol during the [[Battle of New Caprica]] ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

The [[w:Beretta Model 12|Beretta Model 12]] submachine gun is used by Anders's resistance fighters.

In "[[A Measure of Salvation]]", both Major [[Lee Adama|Adama]] and Gunnery Sergeant [[Erin Mathias|Mathias]] are armed with Heckler & Koch [[w:MP7|MP7A1]] Personal Defense Weapons, mounted with ELCAN C79 optical sights. The MP7A1 and C79 sight are further examples of weaponry and equipment seen in ''Stargate SG-1''. Additionally, the fighters on the [[algae planet]], including Adama and Anders, are equipped with the MP7 and sight combination ([[Rapture]]).

Admiral Cain has a [[w:Thompson submachine gun|Thompson submachine gun]] in her gun collection.

A slightly dressed up [[w:TEC-9|TEC-9]] appears as the sidearm of First Cylon War era [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Centurions]] ([[Razor Flashbacks]], Episode 4).

==Shotguns==

Another real firearm seen in the first season is the American [[Wikipedia:Mossberg 500|Mossberg 500]] pump-action shotgun, specifically a 12-gauge bullpup variant, seen in the episode "[[Bastille Day]]" in the hands of the prisoners on the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' after they overwhelm the guards and take control of the ship. None of the bullpup variants are available anymore as of 2006.

The [[Wikipedia:DAO-12|Protecta/Striker shotgun]] is used in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]", "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|Part II]]" and "[[Home]]", although it appears as a grenade launcher. This is the weapon with the drum magazine which Boomer uses to save Apollo's life on Kobol. It is frequently featured in many Hollywood movies due to its distinctive appearance.

A short-barreled pump action shotgun (which closely resembles the [[Wikipedia:Ithaca 37|Ithaca Model 37 pump-action shotgun]]) with forward pistol grip is used by the bartender in the deleted flashback scenes in "[[Scattered]]".

==Rifles and Carbines==
[[Image:Cx4Storm.jpg|thumb|left|Baltar with a Beretta Cx4 Storm carbine ([[Fragged]]).]]
The British [[Wikipedia:SA-80|SA-80 bullpup assault rifle]] is carried by a Colonial military honor guard at Zak Adama's funeral in "[[Act of Contrition]]". The [[Wikipedia:SA-80|SA-80]] is the current, standard-issue infantry rifle of the British armed forces and has been in British military service since 1985. 
The SA-80s in "Act of Contrition" appear to be without the standard, [[Wikipedia:British Army | British Army]] issue [[Wikipedia: SUSAT | SUSAT]] telescopic sight, and the iron foresight and rear-sight/carry handle are not in use despite the fact that SA-80s without the SUSAT sight have no aiming mechanism if the fore and rear iron-sights have not been fitted.
In "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]" and "[[The Farm]]", the resistance fighters on Caprica are armed with SA-80s alongside other firearms. The SA-80s used by the resistance fighters in these two episodes appear to have SUSAT sights fitted on the rifles.

The Italian [[Wikipedia:Beretta Cx4 Storm|Beretta Cx4 Storm carbine]] is one of the main small arms the Colonial military uses in the Re-imagined ''Battlestar Galactica'' with Starbuck using a Cx4 to shoot at [[Tom Zarek]] on the ''Astral Queen'' ([[Bastille Day]]). In "[[Fragged]]", [[Gaius Baltar]], [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]], the others stranded on Kobol, and various Colonial Marines throughout the series are armed with them as well. (It is probable that the Cx4 has replaced the P-90 as the standard Colonial longarm in the series's production, most likely due to the P-90s already being well known through their extensive use on ''Stargate SG-1'' and ''Stargate Atlantis'').
The Cx4s that are seen in ''Battlestar Galactica'' are fitted with specially-made accessories which go the length of the exposed barrel. Aside from this, the carbines are fitted with real-life tactical lights and AimPoint Red-Dot scopes.

Besides automatic and semi-automatic rifles, one of the resistance fighters on Caprica in the episode "Resistance" is armed with a bolt-action rifle. From the look of its action, the rifle appears to be an American [[Wikipedia:Remington 700|Remington Model 700]] fitted with a Choate Ultimate Sniper/Target tactical rifle stock and a third-party telescopic sight. It is possible that the bolt-action rifle is a standard-issue Colonial military sniper rifle (possibly [[Colonial Marine Corps]] issue) since Anders and his resistance fighters raided Colonial military armories on Caprica for firearms, ammunition and other weapons to fight the Cylons.

In the episodes "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]" and "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|Part II]]", Starbuck is using a [[Wikipedia:Heckler & Koch G36|Heckler & Koch G36K]] while at the same time, a member of the resistance is using a [[Wikipedia:AK-47|Kalashnikov]]-type rifle. The G36 is, in its standard version, the service rifle of the German and Spanish armed forces. The Kalashnikov-type rifle that is seen in the hands of Anders' resistance fighters on Caprica in "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II" and in a few episodes of Season 3 in the hands of the New Caprica Resistance fighters is a [[Wikipedia:Type 56 assault rifle|Chinese-made, NORINCO Type 84S rifle]] chambered in 5.56mm NATO/.223 Remington.

In the Miniseries, the Colonial security personnel on ''Galactica'' are armed with a bullpup assault rifle. It bears a resemblance to a short-barreled [[Wikipedia: FAMAS|FAMAS]] with a [[Wikipedia:Picatinny rail|Picatinny rail]] mount. This rifle was actually designed by Masamune Shirow for the ''Dominion: Conflict'' comic series, and is known as the [http://www.poseidon.co.jp/2F/mn-23/mn1.html Seburo MN-23].

The weapon possessed by [[Leoben Conoy]] at Ragnar Station is a fictional variant of the [[Wikipedia:AR-15|AR-15]], known as the Close Quarters Battle Weapon Type Zero, aka the [http://www.poseidon.co.jp/2F/raisen/rai_1.html "Raisen"]. It is a model gun designed by Poseidon Industries of Japan (see link).

Besides the military-issue rifles and carbines that have been seen in Season 2, civilian rifles have made an appearance. One example can be seen in "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]", when one of Anders' resistance fighters is armed with a semi-automatic, civilian hunting rifle fitted with a telescopic sight. From the look of the rifle, it appears that the rifle is a [http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_7400.asp Remington Model 7400] semi-automatic hunting rifle that had part of the rearsight removed in order for the telescopic sight to be fitted. This rifle may have come from either the hunters or survivalists that were picked up by the resistance after the Cylon attack.

== Related Imagery ==

<gallery>
Image:L85Enfield Resistance.JPG|SA-80 (A1) Rifle with SUSAT sight ([[Resistance]])    
Image:SA80Honorguard AoC.JPG|SA-80 Rifles without SUSAT sights or Iron Sights ([[Act of Contrition]])    
Image:StarbuckG36K.jpg|H&K G-36K ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])    
Image:BARifle Resistance.JPG|Accuracy Systems Ultimate 700 Sniper<ref>[http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/cust_remington_700.php Accuracy Systems: Custom Remington 700 Rifles]</ref> ([[Resistance]])    
Image:Stallion HomePII.JPG|Stallion pepperbox ([[Home, Part II]])    
Image:MP9 Resistance.JPG|Ruger MP-9 ([[Resistance]])    
Image:Skorpion Resistance.JPG|Sa vz.61 Skorpion ([[Resistance]])    
Image:CainsWeapons.jpg|Revolvers, flintlocks, and semiautomatics in Admiral [[Helena Cain]]'s collection ([[Pegasus]]).    
Image:Colonial sidearm 1.jpg|Sidearm, Miniseries version    
Image:Colonial sidearm 2.jpg|Sidearm, Season 1 version    
Image:Colonial sidearm 3.jpg|Sidearm, Season 2-4 version    
</gallery>

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Technology (RDM)]]
[[Category:Weapons]]
[[Category:Weapons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Small arms/Archive 1

2008-07-27T11:59:50Z

Sgt Teta:

I'll get some screen captures of some of these later, tonight or tomorrow. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:14, 9 January 2007 (CST)

== "POV" in terms of voice ==

While the article is informative, it's voiced "out-of-universe" and so reads more like a behind-the-scenes article of props than a description of what the weapon might be able to do based on its real-world counterpart or on-screen action. When I run into articles like this, I usually use a References section to move the behind-the-scenes comments or sources out of the way of the main text so that article reads better. Thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:24, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:Concur. Super-informative, but TONS of real world references. However... without the real world references, is there really much worth commenting on? "The Colonials use various pistols, rifles, and submachine guns, sometimes equipped with various accessories such as grenade launchers." That may be oversimplifying just a tad, but ultimately most of the notability of the small arms is the fact that they use some (particular) real world weapons (or at least props that look like real world weapons). Should there be a split between a "Small arms" article and a "behind the scenes" category "Weapons used in the Series" type article? However, as is stated in the opening paragraph, there's not much canon regarding the small arms, so the in-universe articl would be considerably smaller. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:53, 10 January 2007 (CST)
::SV gives my thoughts exactly, I support splitting it into two articles, a small realworld one, which won't have much. It'd have info on the explosive rounds and such, stuff we know. Then a "Weapons Used in Battlestar Galactica" or somesuch for the real-world gear. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:01, 10 January 2007 (CST)
:As said, the only thing this article has going for it, is what real-life weapons are used. There is really nothing else to say. Having two articles would be alright, even if one will be very short --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:49, 10 January 2007 (CST)
::Optionally, we can create a new article, "Props used in Battlestar Galactica". This would discuss the many real-life objects and their origin as this page does with weapons, and add these items. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:58, 10 January 2007 (CST)
:::I don't know. Generally, it's a good idea, but the guns are relatively prominent in the series, so there is a lot of information about them. Maybe enough to warrant an own sub-article in addition to the other props. A way to seperate the "real-world" information a bit could be to create a "behind the scenes" tag like "silly" and "seperate continuity".
:::Alternatively, if an in-universe small arms section is pretty small, we could just keep that information on [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series]] and add explosives and the RPG from "Exodus, Part I" to it. Then an own tiny article isn't needed and this one could be renamed/reworded to make out more "behind the scenes" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:33, 11 January 2007 (CST)
::::I like it. Small paragraph or two in "Weapons" for in-universe, rename/recatogorize/etc. this article to indicate behind the scenes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:49, 11 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Sounds like it generates the same effect I'd prefer to keep the voices right. Let's do that. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:55, 11 January 2007 (CST)
::::::So the voices are telling you that's the way it should be done? (Just don't talk back to the voices, they won't put up with sass.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:02, 11 January 2007 (CST)

== SA-80 comments ==

Are the issues surrounding the SA-80 rifle really relevant to this article? Aside from the fact that they are not entirely accurate (The current A2 version is seen as a marked improvement), these issues are not really important to someone's viewing or understanding of BSG.--[[User:Cohnee|Cohnee]] 05:53, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:Right. I'll remove it --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:32, 15 January 2007 (CST)

I've made a change to the SA80 comments '''from:'''
SA-80s without the SUSAT sight are seen with the foresight and rear-sight/carry handle ''unfolded'' and in use
'''To:'''
SA-80s without the SUSAT sight have no aiming mechanism if the fore and rear iron-sights have not been ''fitted''.

SA-80 fore and rear sights cannot be unfolded, they are slid and then bolted into place using a screw mechanism when the SUSAT is removed [[User:Sgt Teta|Sgt Teta]] 11:59, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

== standard pistol picture requested ==

Does anyone have a really good picture of the standard Colonial pistol? Preferably the Miniseries/early Season 2 version, that was based on a revolver, before they switched to the FN Five-SeveN. I think it's the most "iconic" weapon on BSG and would be a good picture for the general weapons article too. I know there are pics out there of just the weapon, not really screencaps (and not even fan replicas). But the best I could find, is from "Fragged" where Crashdown threatens Cally and Tyrols fires at the Centurions. If nothing turns up I'll use that, but just the pure weapon would be cool. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:04, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:To be honest, I think it'd be best to have a pic of the pistol that's seen most often; ie, the Five-seveN. I know the LeMat version was seen thoughout the miniseries and season one, but I'm pretty sure, scene for scene, we've seen (not scene! :P ) the Five-seveN more often. Either way, I have a couple of caps of both kicking around, whatever we decide. Let me know :) -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:32, 15 January 2007 (CST)
::There is already a pic of the Five-SeveN there (though if you want a better one look at "Torn"). I just thought it'd be nice to have both. And the "original" is still around in early Season 2 (such as "Valley of Darkness"). I think Apollo even used in "Resurrection Ship, Part I" when he was de-armed in the Raptor. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:39, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:::I can get one of the early pistol, there's a good shot in the Miniseries that should work. I'll keep an eye out for a better shot of the FNs too. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:08, 15 January 2007 (CST)
::::Yeah, the Mini has some good scenes like when Boomer and Helo hold off the refugees at the Raptor. But all shots I found were very blurry. Guess I could I make my own ones, but I know there are good ones somewhere out there. And now that I think about it, Tyrol's pistol from "Fragged" is likely the semi-auto version as well. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:12, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:::::There is an excellent side shot of the S1 pistol in "Resistance" when Helo wields the pistol and MP9. I'm not sure what the time code is, because I found the pic on bsgmedia.org's "Resistance" gallery. I'm sure someone with the Season 2.0 DVDs can get the shot. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 20:25, 19 January 2007 (EST)
::::::Aye, I got a screen capture of that when I was getting Skorpion pics. My internet's screwy at the moment (first time I've been online in about 48 hours. I'll upload it when it all stabilizes. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:43, 19 January 2007 (CST)
:::::::Excellent news. Can you get shots of the Resistance fighter weapons from that scene? I think Ander's pistol on "Resistance" had an underbarrel launcher too, but the only shot I've found is not very helpful. I think we need to get shots from S3 for the AK type rifle and the arms-cache from "Exodus, part 2". Shots of the Miniseries rifles would be great too. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 23:55, 19 January 2007 (EST)
::::::::Talos, do you mind posting the pistol pic? I see that there are new shots for the rifle, but not the pistol. I've looked at the arms cache scene and I only see a UMP and the AK clone there, so we don't need pics of that scene. Also, I think that we should have a Related Imagery page with 1 shot of each gun, so we don't clutter the page with pics. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 20:33, 4 February 2007 (EST)
:::::::::Crap, forgot all about that, sorry, I'll go do get them now. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:44, 4 February 2007 (CST)
::::::::::Excellent. Looks good. And I agree that all further pictures should be added to the gallery --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:44, 5 February 2007 (CST)
:::::::::::Thanks. What I'm thinking is that each section (pistol, rifle, etc) has a pic showing the most used one. The ones I'm looking at are: the two sidearms (pistol), the G-36K and Cx4 Storm (rifle), either the UMP or P-90 (SMG), and the Protecta (shotgun). The rest in the gallery. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:56, 5 February 2007 (CST)
::::::::::::I agree with your idea Talos. You should put the G-36K in the gallery, since it was used for Lay Down Your Burdens and never seen since. The SMG picture now being used is perfect, so put the P90 in the gallery. Also, we should make a new section on this page for gallery discussion, since the pistol request was filled and this thing is getting a bit long. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 12:13, 5 February 2007 (EST)

== Ammo analysis ==

Should we have a section about the various types of ammunition used by small arms? I'm asking because ammo in various episodes have different effects. For example, the explosive rounds in "Valley of Darkness", which might be 12 gauge flares, are only powerful enough to destroy a Centurion's head, while in "Home, part One" a 12 gauge explosive round from the Protecta shotgun causes a large explosion that totally destroys the Centurion. Also Helo's pistol rounds during the restaurant fight scene, which went straight through the Centurion's head and the round he fired in the Miniseries, which have never been seen again.
--[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 11:04, 21 January 2007 (EST)
:This article is more for an out-of-universe comparison to real weapons. If you want to add something about the ammunition you should put it here: [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Handheld weapons]], because it's strictly in-universe. Though some of what you describe is the result of different Centurion armor. The ones who boarded the ship had heavier armor and thus needed explosive rounds. I already mentioned the HE rounds there, but some expansion doesn't hurt, as the section is very short at the moment. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:13, 21 January 2007 (CST)

== Unknown bolt-action rifle identified ==
[http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/cust_remington_700.php Accuracy Systems Ultimate 700 Sniper]. I think that's the money gun. ;) [[User:Panther|Panther]] 09:44, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for that, Panther. I had a look at the URL you posted up and I found it very interesting, especially in regards to the kind of stuff that can be used to modify both the Remington Model 700 bolt-action rifle and the Remington Model 7600/7615 series pump-action rifles (most of the gear for the Model 7600 and Model 7615 are legal in Australia). In fact, I might refer that URL to the my mates over on the Australian section of AssaultWeb.Net.

:On another note, Panther. Did you look at the Choate Ultimate Sniper rifle stock that was used on the rifle in "Resistance"? From a closer look at the stock, it appears that the stock was modified to allow the use of detachable rifle magazines - something which is not commonly seen on the rifle stocks Choate Machine and Tool makes. [[User:Roughneck Jase|Roughneck Jase]] 12:58pm, 16 June 2007 (AEST)
::To be honest, I have not seen the episode in a while. I also don't know much about that stock because I haven't had a chance to play with one. One thing that is for sure is that that any stock for a Rem 700 has to leave an opening for the magazine floor-plate. I think that would give you enough room to install a QD mag action with no or little cutting away. [[User:Panther|Panther]] 19:53, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Panther,
I checked out a Winchester Model 70 rifle fitted with a Choate Ultimate Sniper rifle stock while I was visiting a gun shop up here in Brisbane back in 2006 and it was very interesting handling the rifle fitted with this rifle stock. If I ever got my hands on a Remington Model 700 or a Winchester Model 70, I would fit either one of these rifles with a Choate Ultimate Sniper stock and if the rifles had detachable magazines, I would modify the stock to accept detachable mags since Choate doesn't make any versions of the Ultimate Sniper that have wells for detachable magazines. [[User:Roughneck Jase|Roughneck Jase]] 10:14pm, 25 January 2008 (AEST)

== A Quick Question ==
Where did Moore say that the Miniseries/Season pistol was an exact replica of the Bladerunner pistol? The two look nothing alike, though they do share some characteristics. {{unsigned|Kregano}}
: I believe such comments were made in the commentary track for the Miniseries. (It's been a while since I've listened to it, so I'm just basing what I know form memory and don't have a timestamp.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 21:19, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
:Yeah, watching the final cut, it isn't an exact match. Maybe we should just say that they are similar, or that it was modeled after it. That it's on homage to the ''Blade Runner'' blaster is obvious however: [http://props.steinschneider.com/brblaster/csserIII.htm] --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:29, 25 January 2008 (CST)

Talk:Small arms/Archive 1

2008-07-27T11:56:57Z

Sgt Teta:

I'll get some screen captures of some of these later, tonight or tomorrow. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:14, 9 January 2007 (CST)

== "POV" in terms of voice ==

While the article is informative, it's voiced "out-of-universe" and so reads more like a behind-the-scenes article of props than a description of what the weapon might be able to do based on its real-world counterpart or on-screen action. When I run into articles like this, I usually use a References section to move the behind-the-scenes comments or sources out of the way of the main text so that article reads better. Thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:24, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:Concur. Super-informative, but TONS of real world references. However... without the real world references, is there really much worth commenting on? "The Colonials use various pistols, rifles, and submachine guns, sometimes equipped with various accessories such as grenade launchers." That may be oversimplifying just a tad, but ultimately most of the notability of the small arms is the fact that they use some (particular) real world weapons (or at least props that look like real world weapons). Should there be a split between a "Small arms" article and a "behind the scenes" category "Weapons used in the Series" type article? However, as is stated in the opening paragraph, there's not much canon regarding the small arms, so the in-universe articl would be considerably smaller. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:53, 10 January 2007 (CST)
::SV gives my thoughts exactly, I support splitting it into two articles, a small realworld one, which won't have much. It'd have info on the explosive rounds and such, stuff we know. Then a "Weapons Used in Battlestar Galactica" or somesuch for the real-world gear. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:01, 10 January 2007 (CST)
:As said, the only thing this article has going for it, is what real-life weapons are used. There is really nothing else to say. Having two articles would be alright, even if one will be very short --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:49, 10 January 2007 (CST)
::Optionally, we can create a new article, "Props used in Battlestar Galactica". This would discuss the many real-life objects and their origin as this page does with weapons, and add these items. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:58, 10 January 2007 (CST)
:::I don't know. Generally, it's a good idea, but the guns are relatively prominent in the series, so there is a lot of information about them. Maybe enough to warrant an own sub-article in addition to the other props. A way to seperate the "real-world" information a bit could be to create a "behind the scenes" tag like "silly" and "seperate continuity".
:::Alternatively, if an in-universe small arms section is pretty small, we could just keep that information on [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series]] and add explosives and the RPG from "Exodus, Part I" to it. Then an own tiny article isn't needed and this one could be renamed/reworded to make out more "behind the scenes" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:33, 11 January 2007 (CST)
::::I like it. Small paragraph or two in "Weapons" for in-universe, rename/recatogorize/etc. this article to indicate behind the scenes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:49, 11 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Sounds like it generates the same effect I'd prefer to keep the voices right. Let's do that. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:55, 11 January 2007 (CST)
::::::So the voices are telling you that's the way it should be done? (Just don't talk back to the voices, they won't put up with sass.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:02, 11 January 2007 (CST)

== SA-80 comments ==

Are the issues surrounding the SA-80 rifle really relevant to this article? Aside from the fact that they are not entirely accurate (The current A2 version is seen as a marked improvement), these issues are not really important to someone's viewing or understanding of BSG.--[[User:Cohnee|Cohnee]] 05:53, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:Right. I'll remove it --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:32, 15 January 2007 (CST)

I've made a change to the SA80 comments from:
SA-80s without the SUSAT sight are seen with the foresight and rear-sight/carry handle unfolded and in use
To:
SA-80s without the SUSAT sight have no aiming mechanism if the fore and rear iron-sights have not been fitted.

SA-80 fore and rear sights cannot be unfolded, they are slid and then bolted into place using a screw mechanism when the SUSAT is removed --

== standard pistol picture requested ==

Does anyone have a really good picture of the standard Colonial pistol? Preferably the Miniseries/early Season 2 version, that was based on a revolver, before they switched to the FN Five-SeveN. I think it's the most "iconic" weapon on BSG and would be a good picture for the general weapons article too. I know there are pics out there of just the weapon, not really screencaps (and not even fan replicas). But the best I could find, is from "Fragged" where Crashdown threatens Cally and Tyrols fires at the Centurions. If nothing turns up I'll use that, but just the pure weapon would be cool. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:04, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:To be honest, I think it'd be best to have a pic of the pistol that's seen most often; ie, the Five-seveN. I know the LeMat version was seen thoughout the miniseries and season one, but I'm pretty sure, scene for scene, we've seen (not scene! :P ) the Five-seveN more often. Either way, I have a couple of caps of both kicking around, whatever we decide. Let me know :) -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:32, 15 January 2007 (CST)
::There is already a pic of the Five-SeveN there (though if you want a better one look at "Torn"). I just thought it'd be nice to have both. And the "original" is still around in early Season 2 (such as "Valley of Darkness"). I think Apollo even used in "Resurrection Ship, Part I" when he was de-armed in the Raptor. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:39, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:::I can get one of the early pistol, there's a good shot in the Miniseries that should work. I'll keep an eye out for a better shot of the FNs too. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:08, 15 January 2007 (CST)
::::Yeah, the Mini has some good scenes like when Boomer and Helo hold off the refugees at the Raptor. But all shots I found were very blurry. Guess I could I make my own ones, but I know there are good ones somewhere out there. And now that I think about it, Tyrol's pistol from "Fragged" is likely the semi-auto version as well. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:12, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:::::There is an excellent side shot of the S1 pistol in "Resistance" when Helo wields the pistol and MP9. I'm not sure what the time code is, because I found the pic on bsgmedia.org's "Resistance" gallery. I'm sure someone with the Season 2.0 DVDs can get the shot. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 20:25, 19 January 2007 (EST)
::::::Aye, I got a screen capture of that when I was getting Skorpion pics. My internet's screwy at the moment (first time I've been online in about 48 hours. I'll upload it when it all stabilizes. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:43, 19 January 2007 (CST)
:::::::Excellent news. Can you get shots of the Resistance fighter weapons from that scene? I think Ander's pistol on "Resistance" had an underbarrel launcher too, but the only shot I've found is not very helpful. I think we need to get shots from S3 for the AK type rifle and the arms-cache from "Exodus, part 2". Shots of the Miniseries rifles would be great too. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 23:55, 19 January 2007 (EST)
::::::::Talos, do you mind posting the pistol pic? I see that there are new shots for the rifle, but not the pistol. I've looked at the arms cache scene and I only see a UMP and the AK clone there, so we don't need pics of that scene. Also, I think that we should have a Related Imagery page with 1 shot of each gun, so we don't clutter the page with pics. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 20:33, 4 February 2007 (EST)
:::::::::Crap, forgot all about that, sorry, I'll go do get them now. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:44, 4 February 2007 (CST)
::::::::::Excellent. Looks good. And I agree that all further pictures should be added to the gallery --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:44, 5 February 2007 (CST)
:::::::::::Thanks. What I'm thinking is that each section (pistol, rifle, etc) has a pic showing the most used one. The ones I'm looking at are: the two sidearms (pistol), the G-36K and Cx4 Storm (rifle), either the UMP or P-90 (SMG), and the Protecta (shotgun). The rest in the gallery. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:56, 5 February 2007 (CST)
::::::::::::I agree with your idea Talos. You should put the G-36K in the gallery, since it was used for Lay Down Your Burdens and never seen since. The SMG picture now being used is perfect, so put the P90 in the gallery. Also, we should make a new section on this page for gallery discussion, since the pistol request was filled and this thing is getting a bit long. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 12:13, 5 February 2007 (EST)

== Ammo analysis ==

Should we have a section about the various types of ammunition used by small arms? I'm asking because ammo in various episodes have different effects. For example, the explosive rounds in "Valley of Darkness", which might be 12 gauge flares, are only powerful enough to destroy a Centurion's head, while in "Home, part One" a 12 gauge explosive round from the Protecta shotgun causes a large explosion that totally destroys the Centurion. Also Helo's pistol rounds during the restaurant fight scene, which went straight through the Centurion's head and the round he fired in the Miniseries, which have never been seen again.
--[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 11:04, 21 January 2007 (EST)
:This article is more for an out-of-universe comparison to real weapons. If you want to add something about the ammunition you should put it here: [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Handheld weapons]], because it's strictly in-universe. Though some of what you describe is the result of different Centurion armor. The ones who boarded the ship had heavier armor and thus needed explosive rounds. I already mentioned the HE rounds there, but some expansion doesn't hurt, as the section is very short at the moment. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:13, 21 January 2007 (CST)

== Unknown bolt-action rifle identified ==
[http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/cust_remington_700.php Accuracy Systems Ultimate 700 Sniper]. I think that's the money gun. ;) [[User:Panther|Panther]] 09:44, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for that, Panther. I had a look at the URL you posted up and I found it very interesting, especially in regards to the kind of stuff that can be used to modify both the Remington Model 700 bolt-action rifle and the Remington Model 7600/7615 series pump-action rifles (most of the gear for the Model 7600 and Model 7615 are legal in Australia). In fact, I might refer that URL to the my mates over on the Australian section of AssaultWeb.Net.

:On another note, Panther. Did you look at the Choate Ultimate Sniper rifle stock that was used on the rifle in "Resistance"? From a closer look at the stock, it appears that the stock was modified to allow the use of detachable rifle magazines - something which is not commonly seen on the rifle stocks Choate Machine and Tool makes. [[User:Roughneck Jase|Roughneck Jase]] 12:58pm, 16 June 2007 (AEST)
::To be honest, I have not seen the episode in a while. I also don't know much about that stock because I haven't had a chance to play with one. One thing that is for sure is that that any stock for a Rem 700 has to leave an opening for the magazine floor-plate. I think that would give you enough room to install a QD mag action with no or little cutting away. [[User:Panther|Panther]] 19:53, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Panther,
I checked out a Winchester Model 70 rifle fitted with a Choate Ultimate Sniper rifle stock while I was visiting a gun shop up here in Brisbane back in 2006 and it was very interesting handling the rifle fitted with this rifle stock. If I ever got my hands on a Remington Model 700 or a Winchester Model 70, I would fit either one of these rifles with a Choate Ultimate Sniper stock and if the rifles had detachable magazines, I would modify the stock to accept detachable mags since Choate doesn't make any versions of the Ultimate Sniper that have wells for detachable magazines. [[User:Roughneck Jase|Roughneck Jase]] 10:14pm, 25 January 2008 (AEST)

== A Quick Question ==
Where did Moore say that the Miniseries/Season pistol was an exact replica of the Bladerunner pistol? The two look nothing alike, though they do share some characteristics. {{unsigned|Kregano}}
: I believe such comments were made in the commentary track for the Miniseries. (It's been a while since I've listened to it, so I'm just basing what I know form memory and don't have a timestamp.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 21:19, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
:Yeah, watching the final cut, it isn't an exact match. Maybe we should just say that they are similar, or that it was modeled after it. That it's on homage to the ''Blade Runner'' blaster is obvious however: [http://props.steinschneider.com/brblaster/csserIII.htm] --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:29, 25 January 2008 (CST)

Talk:Small arms/Archive 1

2008-07-27T11:56:08Z

Sgt Teta: Change to main page

I'll get some screen captures of some of these later, tonight or tomorrow. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:14, 9 January 2007 (CST)

== "POV" in terms of voice ==

While the article is informative, it's voiced "out-of-universe" and so reads more like a behind-the-scenes article of props than a description of what the weapon might be able to do based on its real-world counterpart or on-screen action. When I run into articles like this, I usually use a References section to move the behind-the-scenes comments or sources out of the way of the main text so that article reads better. Thoughts? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:24, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:Concur. Super-informative, but TONS of real world references. However... without the real world references, is there really much worth commenting on? "The Colonials use various pistols, rifles, and submachine guns, sometimes equipped with various accessories such as grenade launchers." That may be oversimplifying just a tad, but ultimately most of the notability of the small arms is the fact that they use some (particular) real world weapons (or at least props that look like real world weapons). Should there be a split between a "Small arms" article and a "behind the scenes" category "Weapons used in the Series" type article? However, as is stated in the opening paragraph, there's not much canon regarding the small arms, so the in-universe articl would be considerably smaller. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:53, 10 January 2007 (CST)
::SV gives my thoughts exactly, I support splitting it into two articles, a small realworld one, which won't have much. It'd have info on the explosive rounds and such, stuff we know. Then a "Weapons Used in Battlestar Galactica" or somesuch for the real-world gear. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:01, 10 January 2007 (CST)
:As said, the only thing this article has going for it, is what real-life weapons are used. There is really nothing else to say. Having two articles would be alright, even if one will be very short --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:49, 10 January 2007 (CST)
::Optionally, we can create a new article, "Props used in Battlestar Galactica". This would discuss the many real-life objects and their origin as this page does with weapons, and add these items. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:58, 10 January 2007 (CST)
:::I don't know. Generally, it's a good idea, but the guns are relatively prominent in the series, so there is a lot of information about them. Maybe enough to warrant an own sub-article in addition to the other props. A way to seperate the "real-world" information a bit could be to create a "behind the scenes" tag like "silly" and "seperate continuity".
:::Alternatively, if an in-universe small arms section is pretty small, we could just keep that information on [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series]] and add explosives and the RPG from "Exodus, Part I" to it. Then an own tiny article isn't needed and this one could be renamed/reworded to make out more "behind the scenes" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:33, 11 January 2007 (CST)
::::I like it. Small paragraph or two in "Weapons" for in-universe, rename/recatogorize/etc. this article to indicate behind the scenes. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:49, 11 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Sounds like it generates the same effect I'd prefer to keep the voices right. Let's do that. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:55, 11 January 2007 (CST)
::::::So the voices are telling you that's the way it should be done? (Just don't talk back to the voices, they won't put up with sass.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:02, 11 January 2007 (CST)

== SA-80 comments ==

Are the issues surrounding the SA-80 rifle really relevant to this article? Aside from the fact that they are not entirely accurate (The current A2 version is seen as a marked improvement), these issues are not really important to someone's viewing or understanding of BSG.--[[User:Cohnee|Cohnee]] 05:53, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:Right. I'll remove it --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:32, 15 January 2007 (CST)

I've made a change to the SA80 comments from:
SA-80s without the SUSAT sight are seen with the foresight and rear-sight/carry handle unfolded and in use
To:
SA-80s without the SUSAT sight have no aiming mechanism if the fore and rear iron-sights have not been fitted.

SA-80 fore and rear sights cannot be unfolded, they are slid and then bolted into place using a screw mechanism when the SUSAT is removed

== standard pistol picture requested ==

Does anyone have a really good picture of the standard Colonial pistol? Preferably the Miniseries/early Season 2 version, that was based on a revolver, before they switched to the FN Five-SeveN. I think it's the most "iconic" weapon on BSG and would be a good picture for the general weapons article too. I know there are pics out there of just the weapon, not really screencaps (and not even fan replicas). But the best I could find, is from "Fragged" where Crashdown threatens Cally and Tyrols fires at the Centurions. If nothing turns up I'll use that, but just the pure weapon would be cool. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:04, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:To be honest, I think it'd be best to have a pic of the pistol that's seen most often; ie, the Five-seveN. I know the LeMat version was seen thoughout the miniseries and season one, but I'm pretty sure, scene for scene, we've seen (not scene! :P ) the Five-seveN more often. Either way, I have a couple of caps of both kicking around, whatever we decide. Let me know :) -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:32, 15 January 2007 (CST)
::There is already a pic of the Five-SeveN there (though if you want a better one look at "Torn"). I just thought it'd be nice to have both. And the "original" is still around in early Season 2 (such as "Valley of Darkness"). I think Apollo even used in "Resurrection Ship, Part I" when he was de-armed in the Raptor. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:39, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:::I can get one of the early pistol, there's a good shot in the Miniseries that should work. I'll keep an eye out for a better shot of the FNs too. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:08, 15 January 2007 (CST)
::::Yeah, the Mini has some good scenes like when Boomer and Helo hold off the refugees at the Raptor. But all shots I found were very blurry. Guess I could I make my own ones, but I know there are good ones somewhere out there. And now that I think about it, Tyrol's pistol from "Fragged" is likely the semi-auto version as well. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:12, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:::::There is an excellent side shot of the S1 pistol in "Resistance" when Helo wields the pistol and MP9. I'm not sure what the time code is, because I found the pic on bsgmedia.org's "Resistance" gallery. I'm sure someone with the Season 2.0 DVDs can get the shot. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 20:25, 19 January 2007 (EST)
::::::Aye, I got a screen capture of that when I was getting Skorpion pics. My internet's screwy at the moment (first time I've been online in about 48 hours. I'll upload it when it all stabilizes. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:43, 19 January 2007 (CST)
:::::::Excellent news. Can you get shots of the Resistance fighter weapons from that scene? I think Ander's pistol on "Resistance" had an underbarrel launcher too, but the only shot I've found is not very helpful. I think we need to get shots from S3 for the AK type rifle and the arms-cache from "Exodus, part 2". Shots of the Miniseries rifles would be great too. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 23:55, 19 January 2007 (EST)
::::::::Talos, do you mind posting the pistol pic? I see that there are new shots for the rifle, but not the pistol. I've looked at the arms cache scene and I only see a UMP and the AK clone there, so we don't need pics of that scene. Also, I think that we should have a Related Imagery page with 1 shot of each gun, so we don't clutter the page with pics. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 20:33, 4 February 2007 (EST)
:::::::::Crap, forgot all about that, sorry, I'll go do get them now. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:44, 4 February 2007 (CST)
::::::::::Excellent. Looks good. And I agree that all further pictures should be added to the gallery --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:44, 5 February 2007 (CST)
:::::::::::Thanks. What I'm thinking is that each section (pistol, rifle, etc) has a pic showing the most used one. The ones I'm looking at are: the two sidearms (pistol), the G-36K and Cx4 Storm (rifle), either the UMP or P-90 (SMG), and the Protecta (shotgun). The rest in the gallery. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:56, 5 February 2007 (CST)
::::::::::::I agree with your idea Talos. You should put the G-36K in the gallery, since it was used for Lay Down Your Burdens and never seen since. The SMG picture now being used is perfect, so put the P90 in the gallery. Also, we should make a new section on this page for gallery discussion, since the pistol request was filled and this thing is getting a bit long. --[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 12:13, 5 February 2007 (EST)

== Ammo analysis ==

Should we have a section about the various types of ammunition used by small arms? I'm asking because ammo in various episodes have different effects. For example, the explosive rounds in "Valley of Darkness", which might be 12 gauge flares, are only powerful enough to destroy a Centurion's head, while in "Home, part One" a 12 gauge explosive round from the Protecta shotgun causes a large explosion that totally destroys the Centurion. Also Helo's pistol rounds during the restaurant fight scene, which went straight through the Centurion's head and the round he fired in the Miniseries, which have never been seen again.
--[[User:Kregano|Kregano]] 11:04, 21 January 2007 (EST)
:This article is more for an out-of-universe comparison to real weapons. If you want to add something about the ammunition you should put it here: [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Handheld weapons]], because it's strictly in-universe. Though some of what you describe is the result of different Centurion armor. The ones who boarded the ship had heavier armor and thus needed explosive rounds. I already mentioned the HE rounds there, but some expansion doesn't hurt, as the section is very short at the moment. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:13, 21 January 2007 (CST)

== Unknown bolt-action rifle identified ==
[http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/cust_remington_700.php Accuracy Systems Ultimate 700 Sniper]. I think that's the money gun. ;) [[User:Panther|Panther]] 09:44, 6 June 2007 (CDT)

Thanks for that, Panther. I had a look at the URL you posted up and I found it very interesting, especially in regards to the kind of stuff that can be used to modify both the Remington Model 700 bolt-action rifle and the Remington Model 7600/7615 series pump-action rifles (most of the gear for the Model 7600 and Model 7615 are legal in Australia). In fact, I might refer that URL to the my mates over on the Australian section of AssaultWeb.Net.

:On another note, Panther. Did you look at the Choate Ultimate Sniper rifle stock that was used on the rifle in "Resistance"? From a closer look at the stock, it appears that the stock was modified to allow the use of detachable rifle magazines - something which is not commonly seen on the rifle stocks Choate Machine and Tool makes. [[User:Roughneck Jase|Roughneck Jase]] 12:58pm, 16 June 2007 (AEST)
::To be honest, I have not seen the episode in a while. I also don't know much about that stock because I haven't had a chance to play with one. One thing that is for sure is that that any stock for a Rem 700 has to leave an opening for the magazine floor-plate. I think that would give you enough room to install a QD mag action with no or little cutting away. [[User:Panther|Panther]] 19:53, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

Panther,
I checked out a Winchester Model 70 rifle fitted with a Choate Ultimate Sniper rifle stock while I was visiting a gun shop up here in Brisbane back in 2006 and it was very interesting handling the rifle fitted with this rifle stock. If I ever got my hands on a Remington Model 700 or a Winchester Model 70, I would fit either one of these rifles with a Choate Ultimate Sniper stock and if the rifles had detachable magazines, I would modify the stock to accept detachable mags since Choate doesn't make any versions of the Ultimate Sniper that have wells for detachable magazines. [[User:Roughneck Jase|Roughneck Jase]] 10:14pm, 25 January 2008 (AEST)

== A Quick Question ==
Where did Moore say that the Miniseries/Season pistol was an exact replica of the Bladerunner pistol? The two look nothing alike, though they do share some characteristics. {{unsigned|Kregano}}
: I believe such comments were made in the commentary track for the Miniseries. (It's been a while since I've listened to it, so I'm just basing what I know form memory and don't have a timestamp.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 21:19, 17 June 2007 (CDT)
:Yeah, watching the final cut, it isn't an exact match. Maybe we should just say that they are similar, or that it was modeled after it. That it's on homage to the ''Blade Runner'' blaster is obvious however: [http://props.steinschneider.com/brblaster/csserIII.htm] --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:29, 25 January 2008 (CST)

Small arms

2008-07-27T11:53:08Z

Sgt Teta: Incorrect information

:''The following article lists many of the real world weapons used as props in the series. For a more general article on the weapons technology of ''Battlestar Galactica'' see: [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series]]. Consequently, for the small arms from the [[Original Series]], see: [[Laser pistol]].''

Not much description has been given about the small arms that are used in the re-imagined ''Battlestar Galactica'', but nearly all of the firearms that the Colonial forces carry are real weapons, either used without modifications or slightly changed to make them less recognizable.

==Handguns==
[[Image:OldPistol Resistance.JPG|thumb|left|Season 1 style pistol ([[Resistance]]).]]
The standard-issue Colonial sidearm (introduced in the [[Miniseries]]) is according to Ron Moore's commentary an exact replica of the (fictional) sidearm used in the movie ''[[w:Blade Runner|Blade Runner]]'' (also starring [[Edward James Olmos]]) <ref>However, contrary to Moore's comment, the pistols aren't identical. While the Colonial sidearm is obviously modeled after the [http://props.steinschneider.com/brblaster/bldrpics01.htm ''Blade Runner'' blaster], the guns differ in many details.</ref>. The standard service handgun used by the Colonial forces appears to be a modernized version of the [[w:LeMat|LeMat revolver]] of the US Civil War, with a revolver-like pistol grip and a large barrel beneath the primary barrel. From closer examination of the handgun, it appears that the handgun used in the Miniseries and Season 1 was built around a [[Wikipedia:Smith & Wesson|Smith & Wesson]] K-Frame or L-Frame revolver. This sidearm is nicknamed the "Colonial Clamshell" by a propmaster in David Eick's 18th video blog.

The Miniseries version had hardly any real functionality and was redesigned almost from scratch for Season 1 when scripts required more specific actions with the guns. After that it was redesigned again and, starting with the early second season, the original sidearms have been nearly completely replaced by the [[w:Five-seveN|Fabrique Nationale Five-seveN]], also dressed up with an underbarrel explosive launcher. This changeover allows for real semi-automatic fire and on-screen reloads ([[Home, Part II]]), and makes use of the existing stores of 5.7 x 28 mm (FN P-90) blank ammunition.
[[Image:Sidearm Flightofthephoenix.JPG|thumb|Apollo, Starbuck, and Hotdog on the [[firing range]] with FN Five-seveNs ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).]]

The [[w:HK P9|Heckler & Koch P9]] is seen, along with an [http://www.weapon.envy.nu/gun/int.html Intratec Cat-9] in "[[Colonial Day]]".

The [http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg54-e.htm Vektor CP1] has also made several appearances ("[[Bastille Day]]", "[[Black Market]]", "[[Sacrifice]]"); this is odd given a safety recall issued in 2000.

Samuel Anders uses a [[w:MK23 Mod 0|Heckler & Koch Mark 23]] in "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]" and the Israeli [[w:Desert Eagle|Desert Eagle]] in "[[Downloaded]]".

The Russian-made [[w:Makarov PM|Makarov PM]] handgun and the Russian-made [[w:Stechkin APS|Stechkin APS]] handgun have made an appearance in the Season 2 episode "[[Sacrifice]]".

The [[Stallion]] appears "[[Home, Part II]]". Based on the COP 357 Derringer <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.kitsune.addr.com/Firearms/Single-Shot-Pistols/COP_357.htm|title=COP 357 Derringer|date=|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=HTML|language=en}}</ref>, designed as a police off-duty/backup weapon, this four shot derringer fires .357 Magnum rounds. The name "Stallion" may be a production in-joke on the Marushin's model name, "COP 357", whose name is shared in part with the ubiquitous ''Colt'' .357 handgun. This pistol was also used in ''[[w:Blade Runner|Blade Runner]]''.

A very slightly disguised Czech [[w:Vz 52 (pistol)|CZ-52 service pistol]] is used by the Cylons on New Caprica. This is the gun that Doral shoots Caprica Six with and threatens Baltar with in "[[Precipice]]". It is also the same gun that Gaeta almost shoots Baltar with in "[[Exodus, Part II]]" and in turn almost shoots D'Anna. The gun was probably chosen for the futuristic "rocketeer" shape and because it is extremely inexpensive as a military surplus collectible. Interestingly this gun is very reliable, extremely accurate and is about as effective at penetrating armor as the FN Five SeveN, which costs about ten times as much.

Admiral [[Helena Cain|Cain]] has a large collection of older firearms in her office. Among her pistols are a [[w:Luger P08 pistol|9mm Luger Parabellum]] (P08) and a Webley Model 1909 ("[[Pegasus]]", "[[The Captain's Hand]]").

==Submachine guns==

[[Image:UMP Skorpion Resistance.JPG|thumb|Thrace's Vz 61's and Anders's UMP ([[Resistance]])]]
One of the real firearms that was seen on a regular basis in ''Battlestar Galactica'''s first season is the Belgian [[w:FN P90|Fabrique Nationale P90 submachine gun]] which is seen in the hands of the [[Colonial Marine Corps|Marines]] aboard ''Galactica''. The weapon is notable for its unusual 5.7x28 round, designed to pierce body armor. Its unusual magazine placement and design (resting on top with rounds perpendicular to the barrel) means each cartridge is rotated 90 degrees as it is fed.

The FN P90 submachine gun is featured extensively in both [[w:Stargate SG-1|''Stargate SG-1'']] and [[w:Stargate Atlantis|''Stargate Atlantis'']] (which are also filmed in Vancouver alongside ''Battlestar Galactica''). In Season 2, the P90 was replaced by a different weapon (see [[#Rifles and Carbines|Rifles and Carbines]]).

[[Image:Thompson SubmachineGun.jpg|thumb|right|Thompson submachine gun in Cain's office ([[The Captain's Hand]]).]]
Another real-life submachine guns that made an appearance is the German [[w:HK UMP|Heckler & Koch UMP]]. In the episode "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]", [[Samuel Anders]] is armed with one. It is also in use by ''Pegasus's'' Marines. Other weapons seen this episode are the Czech [[Wikipedia:Vz_61|Vz 61 machine pistol]], wielded akimbo by [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]], and the American [[w:Ruger MP9|Ruger MP9]] being wielded by [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] when the two characters encounter Samuel Anders and his resistance fighters. 
The Skorpion is also carried by Chief Tyrol during the [[Battle of New Caprica]] ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

The [[w:Beretta Model 12|Beretta Model 12]] submachine gun is used by Anders's resistance fighters.

In "[[A Measure of Salvation]]", both Major [[Lee Adama|Adama]] and Gunnery Sergeant [[Erin Mathias|Mathias]] are armed with Heckler & Koch [[w:MP7|MP7A1]] Personal Defense Weapons, mounted with ELCAN C79 optical sights. The MP7A1 and C79 sight are further examples of weaponry and equipment seen in ''Stargate SG-1''. Additionally, the fighters on the [[algae planet]], including Adama and Anders, are equipped with the MP7 and sight combination ([[Rapture]]).

Admiral Cain has a [[w:Thompson submachine gun|Thompson submachine gun]] in her gun collection.

A slightly dressed up [[w:TEC-9|TEC-9]] appears as the sidearm of First Cylon War era [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Centurions]] ([[Razor Flashbacks]], Episode 4).

==Shotguns==

Another real firearm seen in the first season is the American [[Wikipedia:Mossberg 500|Mossberg 500]] pump-action shotgun, specifically a 12-gauge bullpup variant, seen in the episode "[[Bastille Day]]" in the hands of the prisoners on the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' after they overwhelm the guards and take control of the ship. None of the bullpup variants are available anymore as of 2006.

The [[Wikipedia:DAO-12|Protecta/Striker shotgun]] is used in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]", "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|Part II]]" and "[[Home]]", although it appears as a grenade launcher. This is the weapon with the drum magazine which Boomer uses to save Apollo's life on Kobol. It is frequently featured in many Hollywood movies due to its distinctive appearance.

A short-barreled pump action shotgun (which closely resembles the [[Wikipedia:Ithaca 37|Ithaca Model 37 pump-action shotgun]]) with forward pistol grip is used by the bartender in the deleted flashback scenes in "[[Scattered]]".

==Rifles and Carbines==
[[Image:Cx4Storm.jpg|thumb|left|Baltar with a Beretta Cx4 Storm carbine ([[Fragged]]).]]
The British [[Wikipedia:SA-80|SA-80 bullpup assault rifle]] is carried by a Colonial military honor guard at Zak Adama's funeral in "[[Act of Contrition]]". The [[Wikipedia:SA-80|SA-80]] is the current, standard-issue infantry rifle of the British armed forces and has been in British military service since 1985. 
The SA-80s in "Act of Contrition" appear to be without the standard, [[Wikipedia:British Army | British Army]] issue [[Wikipedia: SUSAT | SUSAT]] telescopic sight, and the iron foresight and rear-sight/carry handle are not in use despite the fact that SA-80s without the SUSAT sight have no aiming mechanism if the fore and rear iron-sights have not been fitted.
In "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]" and "[[The Farm]]", the resistance fighters on Caprica are armed with SA-80s alongside other firearms. The SA-80s used by the resistance fighters in these two episodes appear to have SUSAT sights fitted on the rifles.

The Italian [[Wikipedia:Beretta Cx4 Storm|Beretta Cx4 Storm carbine]] is one of the main small arms the Colonial military uses in the Re-imagined ''Battlestar Galactica'' with Starbuck using a Cx4 to shoot at [[Tom Zarek]] on the ''Astral Queen'' ([[Bastille Day]]). In "[[Fragged]]", [[Gaius Baltar]], [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]], the others stranded on Kobol, and various Colonial Marines throughout the series are armed with them as well. (It is probable that the Cx4 has replaced the P-90 as the standard Colonial longarm in the series's production, most likely due to the P-90s already being well known through their extensive use on ''Stargate SG-1'' and ''Stargate Atlantis'').
The Cx4s that are seen in ''Battlestar Galactica'' are fitted with specially-made accessories which go the length of the exposed barrel. Aside from this, the carbines are fitted with real-life tactical lights and AimPoint Red-Dot scopes.

Besides automatic and semi-automatic rifles, one of the resistance fighters on Caprica in the episode "Resistance" is armed with a bolt-action rifle. From the look of its action, the rifle appears to be an American [[Wikipedia:Remington 700|Remington Model 700]] fitted with a Choate Ultimate Sniper/Target tactical rifle stock and a third-party telescopic sight. It is possible that the bolt-action rifle is a standard-issue Colonial military sniper rifle (possibly [[Colonial Marine Corps]] issue) since Anders and his resistance fighters raided Colonial military armories on Caprica for firearms, ammunition and other weapons to fight the Cylons.

In the episodes "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]" and "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|Part II]]", Starbuck is using a [[Wikipedia:Heckler & Koch G36|Heckler & Koch G36K]] while at the same time, a member of the resistance is using a [[Wikipedia:AK-47|Kalashnikov]]-type rifle. The G36 is, in its standard version, the service rifle of the German and Spanish armed forces. The Kalashnikov-type rifle that is seen in the hands of Anders' resistance fighters on Caprica in "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II" and in a few episodes of Season 3 in the hands of the New Caprica Resistance fighters is a [[Wikipedia:Type 56 assault rifle|Chinese-made, NORINCO Type 84S rifle]] chambered in 5.56mm NATO/.223 Remington.

In the Miniseries, the Colonial security personnel on ''Galactica'' are armed with a bullpup assault rifle. It bears a resemblance to a short-barreled [[Wikipedia: FAMAS|FAMAS]] with a [[Wikipedia:Picatinny rail|Picatinny rail]] mount. This rifle was actually designed by Masamune Shirow for the ''Dominion: Conflict'' comic series, and is known as the [http://www.poseidon.co.jp/2F/mn-23/mn1.html Seburo MN-23].

The weapon possessed by [[Leoben Conoy]] at Ragnar Station is a fictional variant of the [[Wikipedia:AR-15|AR-15]], known as the Close Quarters Battle Weapon Type Zero, aka the [http://www.poseidon.co.jp/2F/raisen/rai_1.html "Raisen"]. It is a model gun designed by Poseidon Industries of Japan (see link).

Besides the military-issue rifles and carbines that have been seen in Season 2, civilian rifles have made an appearance. One example can be seen in "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]", when one of Anders' resistance fighters is armed with a semi-automatic, civilian hunting rifle fitted with a telescopic sight. From the look of the rifle, it appears that the rifle is a [http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_7400.asp Remington Model 7400] semi-automatic hunting rifle that had part of the rearsight removed in order for the telescopic sight to be fitted. This rifle may have come from either the hunters or survivalists that were picked up by the resistance after the Cylon attack.

== Related Imagery ==

<gallery>
Image:L85Enfield Resistance.JPG|SA-80 Rifle with SUSAT sight ([[Resistance]])    
Image:SA80Honorguard AoC.JPG|SA-80 Rifles without SUSAT sights ([[Act of Contrition]])    
Image:StarbuckG36K.jpg|H&K G-36K ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])    
Image:BARifle Resistance.JPG|Accuracy Systems Ultimate 700 Sniper<ref>[http://www.accuracysystemsinc.com/cust_remington_700.php Accuracy Systems: Custom Remington 700 Rifles]</ref> ([[Resistance]])    
Image:Stallion HomePII.JPG|Stallion pepperbox ([[Home, Part II]])    
Image:MP9 Resistance.JPG|Ruger MP-9 ([[Resistance]])    
Image:Skorpion Resistance.JPG|Sa vz.61 Skorpion ([[Resistance]])    
Image:CainsWeapons.jpg|Revolvers, flintlocks, and semiautomatics in Admiral [[Helena Cain]]'s collection ([[Pegasus]]).    
Image:Colonial sidearm 1.jpg|Sidearm, Miniseries version    
Image:Colonial sidearm 2.jpg|Sidearm, Season 1 version    
Image:Colonial sidearm 3.jpg|Sidearm, Season 2-4 version    
</gallery>

==References==
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