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A Measure of Salvation

2006-11-13T01:47:19Z

Scoke Faofa: /* Guest Stars */

{{Episode Data
| title= A Measure of Salvation
| image= Amos.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 7
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Michael Angeli]]
| story=
| director= [[Bill Eagles]]
| production= 307
| rating=
| US airdate= November 10, 2006
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,420
| prev= [[Torn]]
| next= [[Hero]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''[[Lee Adama|Apollo]] and [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] are dispatched to interrogate the dying [[Cylons]] on board the infected baseship, and learns how [[Baltar]] is helping their adversaries; the virus inspires [[Lee]] to come up with a new strategy.''

== Summary ==
=== On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' ===
*A boarding party comprising of [[Raptor]]s and [[Viper Mark VII|Vipers]] investigate the derelict [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]. Among the boarding party are [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] and [[Sharon Agathon|Athena]].
*Aboard the derelict, [[marines]] explore the corridors, finding the [[Cylon agent|Cylons]] dead. Athena attempts to access the derelict basestar's [[Hybrid]], but is unsuccessful.
*Some "skinjobs" around the control center revive and advise the boarding party of the situation regarding the probe and subsequent infection of the Cylons. One of the infected Cylons, a [[Number Eight]], addresses Athena as "traitor."
*The boarding party and prisoners are en route back to ''Galactica'' when the basestar self-destructs.
*''Galactica'' quarantines the boarding party and prisoners while Dr. [[Cottle]] finds out if the virus affects humans. The human members of the boarding party are cleared while Athena is ordered to stay put, as her blood work hasn't been done. [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] is infuriated, but wants to be notified as soon as her results are available.
*Dr. Cottle's investigation identifies [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|a virus]] that can be treated, but not cured for Cylons. [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]], [[William Adama|Admiral Adama]], Lee Adama, and Helo discuss the idea of taunting the vaccine in exchange for information. A [[Simon]] is brought before them, and informs them that the entire baseship was abandoned, because [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]] would infect the others. He also mentions that [[Gaius Baltar]] provided the information on the path to [[Earth]].
*Aboard ''[[Colonial One]]'', Lee Adama suggests a plan to eliminate the entire Cylon race by executing their prisoners in range of a [[Resurrection Ship]], where the downloaded consciousnesses would infect the remaining Cylons, because according to [[Simon]] the virus carries a bioelectric feedback component that could spread it even through the download process. Helo scoffs at the idea, considering it genocide.
*Aboard ''Galactica'', Athena finds she's immune because of antibodies generated within her body by carrying her daughter, [[Hera]]. Helo tells her of the Fleet's plan, and Athena understands.
*Admiral Adama shows slight dissent about the plan, indicating regulations that forbid him to proceed without presidential order. Despite the ethical ramifications, the President authorizes the biological attack.
*''Galactica'' jumps to a Cylon supply line, and launches Vipers and Raptors to attract the Cylon fleet. In the midst of this, Helo initiates a plan to thwart the execution, unplugging what looks like a standard power connector from an environmental control box.
*The Cylons jump into the area, with Resurrection Ship in tow. Adama orders the execution of the prisoners.
*Lee Adama leads a team to execute the prisoners, but finds that all the prisoners have been killed prior to the Resurrection Ship arriving. Adama orders a recall, and ''Galactica'' escapes without sustaining any major damage.
*Helo converses with Athena about his actions. He maintains that what he did was right, regardless of the consequences.
*Aboard ''Galactica'', Adama reports that the prisoners were suffocated due to a failure in the environmental controls. Roslin is quick to point out one or two might be responsible, but Adama closes the issue. Subsequently, the virus was most likely an accidental exposure, similar to one reported 3000 years ago. Adama points out that they're on the right track to Earth, but Roslin notes that the Cylons are on the right track as well.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===

*Aboard the bastestar, Baltar is being interrogated by Three and Caprica-Six, knowing about the beacon. Three and Caprica-Six imply that Baltar is connected to the virus and to Galactica. Baltar attempts to reconcile, only to be confronted by Centurions.
*In his "projection", his mental Six tells him to relax. Meanwhile, his body is being subjected to torture; Caprica Six is visibly disturbed by the torture and backs away.
*Baltar's torture continues as Three continues to interrogate Baltar regarding his supposed involvement with the virus. In his mind, he attemps to avert the pain by making love to his mental Six. Despite extreme pain, Baltar endures.

== Questions ==

* If [[Adama]] had brought the beacon aboard, what kind of information would it have given them about the location of Earth?
* Will [[Caprica-Six]] continue to stand by and permit Baltar's mistreatment at their hands?
* Where is Caprica-Six's own internal Baltar in all of this?
* Of the Cylons, which type told the basestar to self-destruct: The [[Hybrid]] or a [[Cylon agent]]? Considering her odd look after the destruction, might it have been [[Athena]]?
* What kind of new start are the [[Cylon]]s planning for [[Earth]]? Just a new home planet, an attempt at human Cylon relations not tainted by the destruction of the Twelve Colonies, or something else?
* Why did an entire Cylon fleet (including a [[Resurrection Ship]]) jump to the encounter with ''Galactica''? Why was the [[Resurrection Ship]] not left behind somewhere else, as it was done in previous battles?
* Is D'anna in love with Baltar?
* Why is [[Gaeta]] so surprised to hear that Baltar is alive, given the fact that he was actually there when D'Anna offered Baltar to be evacuated from New Caprica?
* Why does [[Simon]] so quickly claim science can not provide a solution to the infection?
* Why wasn't the execution squad in place and waiting with the prisoners so the plan could have been implemented in a timely manner?
* Since the plan was to execute the prisoners then jump away, why wasn't the jump drive already spun up and ready?
* The environmental controls seem to have been circumvented by [[Karl Agathon]] pulling a single plug. In a combat ship aren't there cascading fail safe systems to protect against such catastrophic failures from simple system malfunctions?
* In his discussion with [[Laura Roslin]] at the end of the episode, [[Admiral Adama]] is aware that sabotage was involved in the death of the Cylon prisoners, yet he states there will be no investigation. While he might be relieved that the plan wasn't carried out, wouldn't he be seriously concerned and want to aggressively pursue this matter?
*Why was Sharon Agathon kept in quarantine after Cottle determined that humans were immune? Whether infected or not, she couldn't have transmitted the disease to anyone else, other than Cylon agents that may still be in the fleet.
*[[Baltar]] calls the [[Number Three]] torturing him "D'anna". Is she, or at least does Baltar believe she is, the same number 3 that was previously masquerading in the fleet as a reporter?
*Has Starbuck regained full flight status, because she tried to pull her life together at the end of "[[Torn]]", or does she participate in the battle due to a pressing need for pilots?
*Will there be any consequences of the sabotage for Helo and Athena from other crewmembers who may figure they are behind said sabotage? How will this affect Helo's reputation as a Cylon-lover or his credibility as XO.
*Since the Cylon prisoners died after the jump, did they download and spread the infection despite Helo's sabotage? Raiders generally operate within range of a Resurrection Ship and Galactica encountered two raiders immediately after the jump.

== Analysis ==

*The Cylons could have cured themselves of this plague relatively quickly, if ''Galactica'' had succeeded in infecting them. It was quickly noted in the episode that Sharon was immune herself because fetal cells from [[Hera]] created effective antibodies against the virus. Hera is immune to the virus because she is a hybrid Human-Cylon. Now that she is in custody of the Cylons, Baltar could have utilized her immunity, as he previously did on Roslin, as capital to further his self-preservation amongst them.
**It can be assumed that executing the captured Cylons will send them back to the Resurrection ship, thus infecting the Cylon network. However, the Human-Cylon hybrid has no extra copies on the Resurrection ship to transfer into, thus the antibodes will not be spread into the Cylon Network.
*The wider implications of such an event could have been religiously meaningful to the Cylons. Cylons have time and again shown religious deference by sometimes overlooking rational explinations. By saving the Cylon race Hera could have been elevated to messiah status, if her very creation has not already ordained her as one to the Cylons because their God proclaimed her creation.
**The presence of Hera is profound enough to the Cylons, which could be preventing them from seeing that Hera could be used as a tool.
*There is a fundamental flaw in the plan [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] develops: Even if the virus successfully infects the [[Resurrection Ship]], the other Cylons would isolate that individual ship, thus preventing a widespread epidemic. The resulting impact on the Cylon fleet would be no greater than previous destruction of the Resurrection Ship in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]".
**Apollo's plan is based on an account of the Cylon analysis of the threat; he could simply assume they are correct and that the virus can spread like wildfire from one Resurrection Ship to another.
**Also, by infecting a greater mass of ships, Galactica could board the ships, take much needed resources and more infected Cylons for further use as biological weapons.
*The science of the virus is somewhat questionable. While the biological aspect is sound, the existence of a "bioelectrical feedback component" appears to be technobabble. It would be impossible for a biological virus (i.e. a physical pathogen) to be transmitted by download to the Resurrection Ship. Such a feedback - scrambling the brainwave patterns - could disturb the download process, but it is unclear how it could spread the virus itself on the other side.
*Adama's reaction to the premature death of the prisoners is yet another example of what are simultaneously his greatest virtues and most glaring flaws - his dedication to those under his command, and his need to keep his conscience clear.
*In this episode, [[Raptors]] are shown loaded to the teeth with weapons systems. In the past ([[Miniseries]], [[The Hand of God]]), Raptors have rarely been depicted in actual combat, preferring instead to hang back while coordinating battlefield logistics. They have been shown armed in a few prior episodes ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], [[Fragged]]), but this is by far their most prominent combat role to date. The Raptors are using the external missile pods and cannons introduced in "Exodus, Part [[Exodus, Part I|I]] & [[Exodus, Part II|II]]" and engage in the same maneuver used to launch the decoy drones during the Battle of New Caprica.
*The genetic pool the Cylons were created from predates the human immunity to the plague from just a couple hundred years ago, yet the Cylons, even as a class of machines, are only 40 to 60 years old. This indicates another, non-Colonial, source for the DNA.
*The genetic pool need not be so old. Because humans had been completely immune to this virus for hundreds of years, the Cylons may have simply overlooked it while creating their humanoid models.
*It seems this virus could also be a fairly reliable (although not conclusive) litmus test to for Cylons in the Colonial Fleet.
*Dr. Cottle explains that Cylons carry antibodies that break down the RNA of his proposed vaccine. However antibodies have no degradative functionality, and indeed only prime recognised pathogens for phagocytosis. Also as vaccines are developed from the pathonogenic organism (or a close relative) it would be impossible for Cylon's to carry antibodies specific for the vaccine RNA (or for the products it encodes) or otherwise they would be immune to the pathonogenic virus itself.

== Notes ==
*[[Survivor count|Fleet population]] is 41,420. Barring any births, there is an unaccounted loss of at least two since "[[Torn]]".
*The story behind the Lion Nebula beacon and the virus may have been inspired by the lunar lander [[wikipedia:Surveyor 3|Surveyor 3]]. Before launching in 1967, its camera was accidentally contaminated by a common bacterium. When the camera was recovered by Apollo 12 astronauts, the microbes returned to life, having survived two and a half years of vacuum, radiation, and temperature extremes.
*This is the first episode in which [[Saul Tigh]] has not appeared, more than likely due to his promise to William Adama at the end of "Torn" after Adama's confrontation with both Tigh and Kara Thrace. Currently, the only characters to have appeared in every episode are [[Laura Roslin]] and [[William Adama]].
*Helo has been promoted to the rank of Captain, as evident in both dialogue and costuming.
*Starbuck appears to have returned to flight status following her decision to pull herself together at the end of "[[Torn]]".
*Dr. Cottle identifies the disease as [[Lymphocytic encephalitis]], however [[w:encephalitis|encephalitis]] is a condition (swelling of the brain) that can be caused by a pathogen, not a pathogen itself. More likely the pathogen is [[wikipedia:Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus|Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
* [[Rick Worthy]] as [[Simon]]
* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
* [[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
* [[imdb:nm0669826|Eileen Pedde]] as Sgt. [[Mathias]]
* [[imdb:nm0461101|Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]] (credited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Angeli]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Battlestar Wiki:Bots

2006-08-12T06:12:57Z

Scoke Faofa: /* Bots Under Review */

{{project|Bots|image=BSG WIKI Bot.png|shortcut=BW:BOT}}
'''Bots''' (Codename: '''[[Cylon Raider|Raider]]''') assist members and the administrator staff with basic functions throughout the ''Wiki''. Some might be as trivial as HTML translating into Wikicode and some are much more complex.

Bots require special approval to be run on a ''Wiki'' as they have control over mass of data. If you with to contribute by writing a bot, you can post it under the review bin so Administrators can take a look at it to make sure it's non-threating.

== Project Team ==
*[[User:Shane|Shane]]
*[[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin Jr.]]

== Policy ==
*There must be a need for it. We won't install every bot there even if it is used somewhere else for trivial matters.
*A bot can be removed from service at any time with or without reason.
*One Month Probation Period - Afterwards the bot owner can control it's functions and not Administrators.
*Once a bot is approved, that source code will be locked. If it needs updating and depending on it's update size, it might go back to a 2 week probation period to make sure everything works out ok.
*Bot masters must maintain all bot related pages. If pages become out of date, bots will be disabled until information is current.
*Bot masters will also send a monthly report on the progress on their bots to determine if they are still needed.
*All bots will be under the '''[[:Category:Bots]]'''.

== Bots Under Review ==
*'''Archive Bot''' - This bot will archive talk pages automatically and create the correct headers for each archive page. '''The code is still under development.'''
::Master: [[User:Shane|Shane]]
::Status: '''pending'''.

*'''Fix/Link/Redirect Bot''' - This bot will keep an eye out for links that are redirects going to the article namespace. for example, [[Cally]] is a redirect. The bot will go through can change of the links that are [[Cally]] to <nowiki>[[Cally Henderson Tyrol|Cally]]</nowiki>. We will ignore links that goto pages with redirects to the Battlestar Wiki namespace. '''The code is still under development.'''
::Master: [[User:Shane|Shane]]
::Status: '''pending'''.

== Bots Under Probationary Status ==
*[[User:Task Bot|Task Bot]] - A bot that will create and mantain an "OPEN TASK" list in '''[[Battlestar Wiki:Tasks]]''' of everything that is marked with a certain templates and in a certain catagories so they are not forgoting. All "Tasks" are to be put into a template called {{tl|allopentasks}}. Would have to be edited to work with this ''Wiki''.
::Master: [[User:Shane|Shane]]
::Status: '''active'''.

== Bots Currently Running ==

{| style="width: 100%; margin: 0.5em auto; clear: both; border: 1px solid #421818; font-size:95%;"
|-
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|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| [[User:Task Bot|Task Bot]]
| Keep task list updated to list on what needs to be completed and looked at on the Wiki.
| [[User:Shane|Shane]]
| 2006-04-22
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== Development/Pending ==

{| style="width: 100%; margin: 0.5em auto; clear: both; border: 1px solid #421818; font-size:95%;"
|-
! style="background-color: #421818; color: #fff;" | Name
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|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| Archive Bot
| Archive talk pages automatically and create the correct headers for each archvie page
| [[User:Shane|Shane]]
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|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| Fix Bot
| Fix Redirects and [[BW:SAC]] enforcement.
| [[User:Shane|Shane]]
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| Interwiki Bot
| Make sure articles, on the interwiki, have the interwiki link back to it's parent.
| [[User:Shane|Shane]]
| ''TBD''
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Kara Thrace

2006-07-06T14:37:48Z

Scoke Faofa: /* Lay Down Your Burdens */

:''This article discusses the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]] character with the pilot callsign of "Starbuck." For more on Kara Thrace's counterpart in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]], see [[Starbuck (TOS)]].''
{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Kara Thrace.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname= Kara Thrace
|callsign= Starbuck
|seen= Miniseries
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status= Married to [[Samuel Anders]] (Formerly engaged to [[Zak Adama]])
|role= Unknown, Formerly: Commander Air Group, Battlestar ''Galactica'' ([[The Captain's Hand]])
|rank= Captain
|actor= [[Katee Sackhoff]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

== Biography ==

=== Background ===

'''Kara "Starbuck" Thrace''', serial number [?]T-462753, is a gifted pilot - and knows it. This has tended to give her an attitude that has at times thwarted her career advancement.

In an unhappy childhood, she was so frequently beaten by her mother that she came to accept pain as a way of life ([[Flesh and Bone]]). Her father was a pianist ([[Valley of Darkness]]), suggesting that her formerly broken finger bones on both hands had been intentionally broken by a parent using her father's piano ([[The Farm]]). Kara left home to join the [[Colonial Fleet|military]]. She was a very talented [[pyramid]] player ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]), and received a scholarship to the Fleet Academy to play pyramid. During this time, she injured her knee and was no longer able to play pyramid at a professional level. During that time, however, she discovered a passion and skill at being a fighter pilot ([[Podcast:The Hand of God]]). On graduating from Colonial Flight School, she undertook a period of active duty before returning to flight school as an instructor.

It was in this role that Thrace broke her cardinal rule of flying and fell in love with a young recruit, [[Zak Adama]]. Despite Zak's mediocre performance as a pilot, Thrace's love for him - and the fact that she could see emulating his father was so important to him - caused her to pass him on his final flight examination, despite failing three of the required maneuvers ([[Act of Contrition]]).

Already engaged to Zak at the time she passed him for flight status, she was unable to marry him, as he was killed during a routine mission shortly after graduating. At the time, [[Lee Adama]], Zak's elder brother, blamed their father for Zak's death, and in her guilt, Kara did little to alter this idea. She did, however, meet [[William Adama]] shortly after the accident, and the two struck up such a strong rapport that they stood together at Zak's funeral ([[Act of Contrition]]).

Following the funeral, Kara resigned from flight School as a instructor and transferred as an operational pilot aboard [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' under the command of William Adama, where she served for some two years prior to the [[Cylon attack]] on the [[Twelve Colonies]]. Before the Cylon attack, she was second in command of pilots to the [[CAG]], [[Jackson Spencer]].

While she is temporarily in the brig for fighting with Colonel Tigh, Captain Spencer is killed in a Cylon slaughter of ''Galactica's'' last Viper squadron. With her incarceration, Lee Adama, who joins ''Galactica'', is given the senior pilot title. Apparently, she approves of Apollo being assigned the leadership role: "I'm not a big enough dipstick for the job," she says about herself ([[Miniseries]]).

During her time aboard ''Galactica'', Kara's flying skills proves her as one of finest pilots in the Colonial Fleet, but her attitude quickly runs her afoul of other senior officers on-board ship, notably Colonel [[Saul Tigh]], ''Galactica's'' [[Executive officer]]. Tigh and Thrace take an instant dislike to each other, perhaps each seeing a similar level of failure in the other: Tigh with his drinking problem, and Thrace with the knowledge that she caused [[Zak Adama]]'s death. Their open mutual dislike of one another leads to the point where blows are exchanged, with Thrace ending up in the brig ([[Miniseries]]).

At the time of the Cylon attack she has an apartment in [[Delphi]]. It overlooks a parking lot and had a broken toilet. She was also a very avid painter, and her flat is cluttered with her paintings ([[Valley of Darkness]]).

=== Post-[[Cylon Attack]] ===

Following the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies, Thrace returns to flight status, where she quickly proves her worth as a remarkable pilot - right down to using her own Viper to rescue Lee Adama when his ship is disabled in the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage|escape from Ragnar Anchorage]] ([[Miniseries]]). This action brings her grudging respect from Colonel Tigh, but she is unable to accept his offer of the olive branch - an act that will have repercussions for her later.
[[image:Bastille_Day-Starbuck_Boxey.jpg|thumb|left|[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] as acting [[CAG]] with [[Boxey (RDM)|Boxey]] as assistant in [[Bastille Day]]. (C. Sci Fi Channel)]]
After ''Galactica'' suffers a drastic loss of water reserves due to an act of sabotage ([[Water]]), a hostage situation erupts on a [[Astral Queen|prison transport ship]], involving Lee Adama ([[Bastille Day]]). While Captain Adama is being held hostage, Lt. Thrace serves as interim [[CAG]] in the briefing room. Tigh criticizes her behavior as acting [[CAG]].

Thrace aides in assembling a rescue mission on the ''[[Astral Queen]]''. Surprisingly, Thrace gets the backing of Tigh himself and the acknowledgment that she is the best sharpshooter in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]. Following the successful mission, Thrace tries to mend fences between herself and the XO with a toast (consisting of water), apologizing in much the same way as Tigh himself had tried after their initial escape from [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. But this time it is Tigh that rejects Thrace's apology, stating that her flaws are professional, while his flaws were personal ([[Bastille Day]]).

Having partially admitting her role in Zak Adama's death to Lee Adama ([[Miniseries]]), Thrace must confront her past head-on when a freak accident on ''Galactica's'' [[Hangar Deck|hangar deck]] kills 13 Viper pilots and puts a further seven pilots in [[sickbay]]. Charged with finding and training new pilots ("[[nugget|nuggets]]" in pilot slang), Thrace faces up to past mistakes, and eventually admits her secret to William Adama himself, an act that brings their close friendship almost to the breaking point ([[Act of Contrition]]).

Shortly after, Thrace engages a fight with eight Cylon Raiders while leading a training flight from ''Galactica'', Thrace orders her training cadets to return to ''Galactica'' and engages the enemy fighters. One cadet, [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]], disobeys Thrace and fights as her wingman long enough to distract the Raiders sufficiently to where Thrace's odds of survival are increased. Starbuck's remarkable flying destroys almost all the Raiders, but a final Raider critically damages her Viper just as she shoots the Raider. Both ships lose control and tumble towards a small red moon with an unbreathable atmosphere. With her Viper in a fatal flat-spin, Starbuck is forced to eject from her Viper ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).

The crash prompts ''Galactica'' to conduct a system-wide search for Starbuck, led by Adama and his son, each reacting to his guilt at his response to her admission about Zak Adama. While the search and rescue operations place [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] at extreme risk, they nevertheless keep the Fleet in the star system long enough for Thrace (nursing a damaged knee) to repair the downed Cylon Raider and get it flying again before using it to return to ''Galactica'', which provides Adama with vital intelligence on Cylon fighter technology.

Taken off the pilot's active duty roster as a result of her injured leg, Starbuck sees her role become more desk-bound. She is recognized by Commander Adama for her unconventional thinking, and he asks her to plan a special attack on a Cylon [[tylium]] refinery. The tactical planning role is not something she relishes, and she frequently shows resentment towards others for her condition ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

She also interrogates a Cylon prisoner. The interrogation of [[Leoben Conoy]] is a task Thrace does not particularly wish for, especially when the situation (a nuclear device allegedly hidden on one of the ships in the Fleet) pushes her into some drastic acts to try to extract the information from the Cylon agent ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

Off-duty, Thrace maintains her cocky persona by playing cards and gambling for money. Her devil-may-care attitude brings her to the attention of Doctor [[Gaius Baltar]] ([[Water]]). She becomes quite interested in Baltar at first, but she quickly comes to despise him for reasons not quite clear. Despite her reckless approach to life, Thrace hides the fact that she is deeply spiritual. She frequently prays (or talks) to the [[Lords of Kobol]], particularly [[Aphrodite]] and [[Artemis]] in times of need ([[Miniseries]], "[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]").

=== The Arrow of Apollo ===
[[image:Starbuck-Kobols_Last_Gleaming_pt2.jpg|thumb|right|'''Starbuck''' retrieves the [[Arrow of Apollo]] in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]].]]
Being the only qualified pilot to fly the Cylon Raider, Thrace is assigned to plant a nuclear device on board a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in orbit around [[Kobol]]. Before the assignment, [[Laura Roslin]] calls a meeting with her and convinces Thrace to jump to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] to retrieve the [[Arrow of Apollo]]. Disobeying orders, disillusioned after confirming that Commander Adama fabricated that he knew the actual location of [[Earth]], she Jumps to Caprica in the Raider ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]), landing in [[Delphi]]. Upon recovering the unusual Arrow in the [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]], she is violently attacked by a copy of [[Number Six]]. Despite being heavily outmatched in the fight, Thrace luckily defeats the Cylon, who was mortally wounded after being impaled with a piece of jutting debris as the two women fell to a bombed-out lower level.

At the museum, she discovers [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], whom she thought dead. She also discovers a second copy of [[Sharon Valerii]] and realizes instantly that the woman is a Cylon. Thrace attempts to shoot her, but Helo stops Thrace and reveals to Starbuck that the "Caprica" Valerii is pregnant with his child, adding more to Kara's stress level to the point where she begins to sob ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). To make matters worse, Valerii, fearing for her child, runs away and steals Thrace's Raider. Starbuck hears the whine of the fighter's engines but is too late to stop the Cylon's escape. In exasperation, Starbuck could only mutter: "Bitch took my ride" ([[Scattered]]). Like Helo, Starbuck was left with no way to return to the Fleet unless she could find her Raider or another Cylon spacecraft, as enemy FTL engines were the only ones sufficently powerful to reach the Fleet.

Starbuck is not sympathetic to Helo's love for the Caprica copy of Sharon, and berates him for his stupidity. Thrace makes a pit stop from the fighting and leads Helo to her old apartment in Delphi. There she digs up a stash of [[fumarello]]s, dons an old military fatigue jacket she apparently wore around her home, and starts up a battery-powered music player. The piano music she listens to is something recorded of her father's, a pianist. Throughout the dusty, but intact apartment were paintings Thrace had made, some fascinating, but many eerie in tone. Helo has little luck in finding food, but Thrace finds the keys of her surplus military utility vehicle in her jacket. Thrace has a ride again, if only to move more efficiently about Caprica ([[Valley of Darkness]]).

Thrace and Helo are initially attacked by a [[Caprica Resistance|resistance movement]] on Caprica. In a standoff, ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]) Thrace and the Resistance leader, [[Samuel Anders]], sufficiently convince each other that neither of them are Cylon agents. Thrace and Anders strike up a rapport as fellow [[pyramid (RDM)|pyramid]] players and end up as lovers. During planning to steal a [[Heavy Raider]], Thrace is shot in a military action, waking up in a hospital on Caprica. Thrace is told by her doctor, [[Simon]], that Anders died from wounds he suffered in getting Thrace to safety.

But Thrace's instincts about her doctor nag her, particularly after some mysterious surgeries by Simon. Her suspicions are confirmed when she discovers that Simon is working with a [[Number Six|known Cylon agent]]. She overhears that the next day he plans to extract her ovaries for use in the Cylon's attempts to study and create a hybrid Cylon/human embryo. Simon also makes the mistake of calling Thrace by her callsign, Starbuck, which she had never revealed. Staggering and in pain, Thrace kills Simon and manages to escape to the front of the hospital, but not before clocking a Six copy with a fire extinguisher and destroying the local farm power supply, mercy-killing [[Sue-Shaun]] and several other women in the facility.

Simon reappears in front of Thrace at the exit to the hospital just as the Resistance attacks the facility. The second Simon, now revealed as a Cylon agent himself, is immediately killed by the Resistance, but a squad of [[Cylon Centurion]]s appear and pins the Resistance down. Luckily, the [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii]] swoops in with a stolen [[Heavy Raider]], destroys the Centurions and flies the Resistance and Thrace out of harm's way.

Thrace promises to Anders that she'll return with a rescue mission for the remaining survivors, leaving him her [[Identification Tags|identification tags]] as a promise and friendship token. Anders returns the Arrow of Apollo to Thrace, which he hid on the resistance grounds for safekeeping ([[The Farm]]).

Thrace, Helo and the pregnant Valerii land on the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' in the Heavy Raider. Finding the [[Laura Roslin faction]] in orbit of [[Kobol]], Kara is reunited with Lee. He kisses her impulsively, catching Kara by pleasant surprise, but a tense standoff follows when Apollo discovers that another Valerii copy has returned with them. Roslin helps defuse the situation, and Thrace delivers the Arrow of Apollo to the President.

Temporarily removed from the protocol of military discipline a few hours before their departure to Kobol's surface, Lee playfully teases Kara by stealing a pyramid ball she took from Caprica. Lee senses her depression about Caprica and tells her that he'd be happy to hear about any problems she had. He also let slip that he loved her, which brightened Kara's mood to the point where she teased him back about his slip.

With a team led by Laura Roslin, Lee Adama, and, later, joined by the recovered Commander Adama, Thrace enters the [[Tomb of Athena]] and successfully uses the Arrow of Apollo to activate a hologram that shows constellations of the Twelve Colonies' ancient symbols.

:'''[[Billy Keikeya]]''': Uh... where the hell are we? 
:'''Laura Roslin''': I don't know. Tomb of Athena, I think. 
:'''Commander Adama''': I thought we were already in the tomb. 
:'''Kara Thrace''': I think that was the lobby. 

Thrace realizes that they are on a recreation of Earth, and realizes they are seeing, in a sense, what their brothers would see in Earth's sky. Together with Lee Adama, they locate the Lagoon Nebula, a celestial body known to Commander Adama and Lee Adama, and gather sufficient information to begin an actual course to Earth ([[Home, Part II]]).

Thrace and Lee Adama continue to appear more and more comfortable in their working and off-duty friendship. They compliment each other often when in live-fire encounters ([[Home, Part II]]) as well as off-duty practice ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). Thrace never fails to playfully tease Lee when she can, showing off the impressive stealth abilities and her flying skills of the new [[Blackbird]] fighter in her maiden flight ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

=== Enter ''Pegasus'' ===

With the initially welcome discovery of another Colonial battlestar, ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', Admiral [[Helena Cain]] summarily assigns Thrace (and Lee Adama) to ''Pegasus'' after digesting the reports of ''Galactica'''s officers, which is a source of irritation for Commander [[William Adama]].

After critically commenting against ''Pegasus'' [[CAG]] Captain [[Cole Taylor]]'s plan to recon the [[Resurrection Ship]] tracking [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]], Taylor removes Thrace from the mission. Lee Adama, also miffed by Thrace's and his change in seniority, secretly tells her to use the newly built [[Blackbird]] stealth craft to take recon photos of the Cylon Unknown. Adama believes that the stealth craft has a better chance of taking reconnaissance photos due to its stealth abilities; like Thrace, he believes that Vipers and a Raptor wouldn't be an effective recon force. ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]])

Thrace is away on her covert recon mission, unaware of the showdown between Commander Adama and Admiral Cain over Cain's totalitarian command style in her quick conviction of [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] for the accidental death of "Cylon interrogator" Lt. [[Alistair Thorne]].

Upon return from her very successful mission, the [[Blackbird]]'s lack of a Colonial transponder is mistaken for a Cylon [[Raider]] on [[DRADIS]], and Starbuck is nearly confronted and shot at by Vipers from ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica''. After narrowly avoiding certain death by declaring herself a friendly, Thrace transmits her recon photos to ''Pegasus'' and Admiral Cain.

Cain is so impressed with Starbuck's performance that Cain promotes Thrace to Captain and ''Pegasus'' CAG. Cain initially wanted to place Lee Adama in the brig for his part in the unauthorized recon operation, but she chose to take Adama off of flight status. Thrace is assigned the task of planning the joint attack on the Resurrection Ship, but successfully asks to have Adama on her team, restoring him to flight status. Cain hears of Thrace's desire to return to Caprica to rescue members of the [[Caprica Resistance]] there, but Cain suggests the idea of returning to the Colonies in an effort to beat the Cylons and win their homeworlds back. Thrace indicates approval, but her card face might have been showing. Later, Lee Adama meets with Thrace as she works on the battle plan. He complains that she appears to be working as if nothing has happened, as if the tensions between Commander Adama and Cain didn't exist. Thrace replies that while Cain was in command, there is nothing to do about the situation.

After she briefs Cain and Commander Adama on her battle plan, Adama asks her to stay behind to discuss more of the plan. In reality, he asks Thrace to assassinate Cain after the battle is complete and her fighters are accounted for. Adama fears that if Cain continues to command, he will be killed, leaving no one to stop Cain from inflicting the same fate on his Fleet as she did to a civilian fleet that ''Pegasus'' stripped for resources and left for dead in space ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]).

Before the attack, Thrace meets with Lee Adama, who comforts her on the task that Commander Adama asks of her.

Thrace's battle planning, as before on the tylium mine, works to near-perfection, with the Resurrection Ship destroyed and its supporting basestars. However, the plan to kill Cain is left with a serious hitch; Lieutenant Adama, who takes the [[Blackbird]] out to destroy the FTL drive on the Resurrection Ship, is missing in action, in need of rescue in space after a collision destroys the Blackbird. As such, Thrace is left without backup as she walks to the ''Pegasus'' CIC, obviously afraid and apprehensive. When Commander Adama calls, Thrace slowly moves her hand to her sidearm but, to her relief, Adama does not give the kill order and cryptically instructs her to stand down.

Thrace visits Lee Adama in pilot's quarters on ''Galactica'' after his rescue. He appears dazed and impassive. She dismisses his apology on not being able to back up Thrace on her aborted kill mission, saying that it was good for both of them just to make it back alive once more. But young Adama surprises her by saying that he didn't want to make it back alive. Nearby, [[Anastasia Dualla]], who has shown more than a passing interest in Lee Adama in the past, eavesdrops on the conversation and leaves equally worried.

A few weeks later, Thrace was taking leave on [[Cloud 9]] when she was dragooned into a rescue operation after over a dozen people, including Ellen Tigh, Billy, Dee, and Apollo were held hostage by terrorists demanding Adama turn over [[Sharon Valerii]]. Thrace attempted gather intel on the situation, but Mrs. Tigh inadvertently blew her cover. Thrace and her marines laid down some fire, removing two terrorists from the equation, but Apollo was caught in the crossfire. After the situation was resolved, Thrace intended to sit at Lee's bedside, only to discover that Dualla beat her there. ([[Sacrifice]])

About a month after the Cloud 9 incident, Thrace was assigned to Pegasus as a flight trainer. Though the pilots liked her, the ship's commander began to find fault with everything she did, eventually confining her to quarters for "insubordination" after she attempted to inform him of the Cylon ambush tactic using distress beacons. Maj. Adama covertly overruled the Commander, ordering Thrace to fly in the battle. Following the [[Battle of the Binary Star System]], when Lee was promoted to Commander and given command of ''Pegasus'', Thrace informed him that she was taking over his CAG post aboard ''Galactica''. Apparently, Adm. Adama thought it best he keep an eye on her personally ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

===Lay Down Your Burdens===
[[Image:Karanew.jpg|150px|thumb|right|Kara Thrace one year later]]
Shortly before the presidential election, Thrace took a squad of 20 raptors back to Caprica to rescue [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] and the [[Caprica Resistance]], as she promised. With permission from the president and the admiral, and with the aid of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica-Sharon]], Starbuck and Helo were able to return to Caprica with the loss of only two Raptors. The group soon met up with Anders, who reported that their HQ had been destroyed and Thrace's timing was just perfect. A squad of Centurions fired on their position shortly thereafter. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]])

While waiting it out under Cylon attack, Starbuck and Anders agreed that they would kill each other rather than go back to one of the [[Farms]]. When the attack stopped, Thrace, naturally suspicious, ordered the group to "fight 'em until we can't." But the Centurions had vanished. Brother [[Cavil]] then appeared and praised the [[Lords of Kobol|Gods]] over the Cylons' abandonment of Caprica. Starbuck wasn't really surprised to discover he was a Cylon upon their return to the Fleet.

Starbuck and Anders proceeded to get drunk, and received a disastrous visitation from Apollo while doing it. This apparently led to a rift between the two comrades, such that Kara thought Lee wouldn't provide antibiotics for Anders, even a year later (either that, or something happened between the two during the year that was jumped).

Thrace married Anders, and the two moved to [[New Caprica City]]. Kara was deeply distressed when he developed pneumonia, and did her best to care for him. Life on New Caprica tempered Thrace, and she often behaved in ways Starbuck never would have. She was horrified by the sudden arrival of hundreds of Cylon ships in the sky of New Caprica. As squad after squad of Centurions marched through the city streets, a few of Galactica's former crew gathered near Thrace, looking to her for guidance. Kara responded the only way she knew how: "Fight 'em until we can't." ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

==Notes==

According to SkyOne, Thrace was born on Picon but raised all over the Twelve Colonies. Her mother was a Sergeant Major in the Colonial [[Marines]] and a decorated veteran of the [[First Cylon War]]. Her father was named Dreilide, and is described as a "frustrated" musician.

Here is SkyOne's summary of Thrace:

:''Starbuck is Commander Adama's best pilot, as well as flight partner and closest comrade to Apollo, Adama's estranged son.''

:''Kara Thrace was born on the Picon Colony, but raised all over the 12 Colonies. Her childhood was spent bouncing from one military outpost to another. Her mother was a sergeant major in the Colonial Marines, and a decorated veteran of the Cylon war. Her father, Dreilide, was a frustrated musician.''

:''Kara was a tough minded-child who dreamed of playing Pyramid in the big leagues someday. her mother wanted her to pursue a career in the military...Kara did not want this, so signed up to the academy to pursue her love of sports.''

:''Her future as a sports star ended when she was seriously injured, shattering her right knee. Most surgeons felt her knee would never be the same. Depressed, Kara applied to various post-graduate posts, but doubted she would be accepted. To her surprise, she scored the highest academic record for a flight-training exam. Kara soon discovered a love of flying.''

:''She would be a pilot for life - unless she got kicked out first, as Kara hated taking orders and military protocol. If that wasn't enough, Kara drank and gambled too much. While her academic and personal life was not first class, it couldn't be disputed that she was destined to fly.''

:''Kara served her first tour aboard the Battlestar Triton, but she was not admired by all, and soon found herself shipped back to where she started.''

:''This is where she met Zak Adama, and fell in love. Tragedy struck when Zak failed a key flight test and his plane crashed. Kara was devastated. She then spent two years on the Galactica - concentrating on her flying.''

As this information has not appeared on the Scifi.com series website or on screen, it has yet to be confirmed.

On the Sci-Fi Channel's preview for season 2.5 (US), Katee Sackoff is quoted as saying that Starbuck is "the best Viper pilot...EVER."
=== Additional Notes ===
*[[Wikipedia:Thrace|Thrace]] was a region in south-eastern Europe that was heavily influenced by the ancient Greeks and was eventually conquered by [[Wikipedia:Philip_II_of_Macedonia|Phillip II of Macedonia]]. Thracians were considered by most to be the most ferocious fighters and were often highly paid mercenaries for Greek kings.
*After auditioning for the role of [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]], [[Grace Park]] was asked by director [[Michael Rymer]] to audition for the role of Starbuck, and she was actually one of two finalists up for the role (the other being Katee Sackhoff, who got the part). Ultimately Park was cast as [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerri]].

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=[[Cole Taylor|Cole "Stinger" Taylor]]|title=Commander, Air Group of the [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''|after=''(unknown)''}}
{{succession box|before=[[Lee Adama|Lee "Apollo" Adama]]|title=Commander, Air Group of the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=''(unknown)''}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:Characters|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:RDM|Thrace, Kara]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Thrace, Kara]]

Talk:Main Page/Archive6

2006-07-06T14:35:22Z

Scoke Faofa: /* Your Screen Resolution */

{{archive-header
| archivenumber = 01
| number = 1
| start = May 2nd, 2005
| end = May 25th, 2006
| items = {{archive-item|01|I know, I'm just focusing on other things...}} {{archive-item|01|Suggestions}} {{archive-item|01|Style Conventions}} {{archive-item|01|Quote-o-Matic}} {{archive-item|01|NPOV?}} {{archive-item|01|Fan Fiction}} {{archive-item|01|IRC Channel?}} {{archive-item|01|How BSG Wiki Compares to Other Wikis}} {{archive-item|01|Logo}} {{archive-item|01|Quotes link}} {{archive-item|01|Article count}} {{archive-item|01|Punctuation}} {{archive-item|01|Update the spoiler section}} {{archive-item|01|Navigation}} {{archive-item|01|Main Page Re-org}} {{archive-item|01|IMDB Links}} {{archive-item|01|Indexing on THE}} {{archive-item|01|"Wikipedia"}} {{archive-item|01|URL Reffer Error}} {{archive-item|01|Last.fm now playing image}} {{archive-item|01|XHTML}} {{archive-item|01|The Community & The Fan Stuff}} {{archive-item|01|New Main Page Design}} {{archive-item|01|Main Page Same Across different lanauges}} {{archive-item|01|end=Y|BSG Wiki Logo Image location}}
|}}

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== Friends... ==

What does another site have to do, really, to get on our little "Friends" list? I just wondered if there were any rules or... what? I thought, since we link Memory Alpha, that it might be appropriate to link the [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Wookieepedia], seeing as how it's another huge Wiki about a popular SciFi universe (or Space Opera, but let's not split hairs). Anyway... What's the story? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 00:03, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
:Well.. I created the "friends" section to hightlight sites that have a lot of common elements to each other. Gateworld - Learn about most BSG News Here. MA - A lot of the Actors/Crew have down work in Star Trek and BSG is compared to Star Trek. Wikipedia - Has large sections of just everything. inlcuding the templates, and styles we use on the site. This is my unoffical policy of the friends section bear in mind. I wouldn't just put any old site on this section unless if it did had a significant impact on the subject matter at hand. I don't see alot of Star Wars references in this Wiki. That's why I would not put that site in this section. Plus we have a thing with {{tl|gateworldphoto}} and I think Joe is talking or might soon be talking with {{tl|memoryalphaphoto}}. We use alot of the same common images. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:21, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:: Ah. Now I know. Fair enough. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 01:56, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:::The star wars wiki is totally messed up anyway. Continuity to chopped to shreds. Films, guides, novels, animated series... --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 03:05, 13 June 2006 (CDT)

== Did you know... ==

So I was thinking of adding a "Did You Know..." section under the "Airdates" section (if for no other reason than that space is not used), but I couldn't figure it out. I have some ides for Did You Know...s, so if someone else has already started working on this, lemme know. Just while I'm thinking of it, I'll post what's in my head now right here. Otherwise I'll forget.

::'''Did You Know...'''
::*...that [[Wikipedia:Thrace|Thrace]] is a geographic area somewhat north of [[Wikipedia:Greece|Greece]]?
::*...that both [[Zak Adama]] and [[Ellen Tigh]] have been portrayed by two different actors?
::*...that [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] was originally never intended to appear after being left on [[Caprica]] in the [[Miniseries]]?
::*...that [[Samuel Anders]]' last name is derived from the Greek word for "Man"?

I thought of some more while I was typing that. Anyway... there's those. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:37, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

: Oh. I just now saw that there's a "Did you know..." section on the RDM portal... Is there a reason not to put it over here and include questions from all continuities? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:39, 2 June 2006 (CDT)
::I still like the idea of "did you know" on the front page. I can add it to the [[Battlestar Wiki:Main page|main page project]]. Under what section is the question. With the news being so long it is really tough. Right now I am working on the cite.php file to see if I can place the refernces in another area (new section on the front page - also see [[Battlestar Wiki:Main page#Current Design|current design]]) so they would not interfere with the disuption of the news elements with the left side coloum. Plus I think the airdates will get longer once our internationial users start putting up their airdates. So everything will balance out I think for Season 3. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:48, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

:::I'll get right on it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 07:52, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

==Region 4 Season 2 DVD new Slimline Set==

Can we please include the new Region 4 release set for 16 August 2006 for Australia [http://www.ezydvd.com.au/item.zml/787854]. This is an Australian Store. I have made several edits in the Mini series and Season 1 DVD set to include the Region 2, 4, and 5. Im unsure that it includes all episodes, but i would assume it would be the case as for it being Season 2 not Season 2.0, and having a price tag of AU$80 and of course being released after the full season 2 was aired. --[[User:Lgamser|Lgamser]] 23:35, 13 June 2006 (CDT)

== 1900x1200 Res ==

I just got my cable installed from Comcast today, and this site looks REALLY well on this big screen (24") computer monitor I have. It looks very good! :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:34, 19 June 2006 (CDT)

== Proposal to Open Wiki to Unregistered Users ==

I think the time has come, or close to it to re-open the Wiki to all users without the need to register. We have the tools, the policy, the people, to support a full time 24/7 operation of keeping the wiki in check. We also have the most imporatnat policy [[BW:PRO]] (in progress) for information to be keeped sucure. With the summer starting and October coming up quickly and the new found acess to the [[BW:OC]] page, it would be nice to see some other contribuations from real outsiders.

I don't know if this should be done right away, but we need some sort of guidelines worked on in [[BW:PRO]] and possaibliy [[BW:IP]] and we would need [[BW:PRI]] up and voted on. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:04, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

:The problem, as Joe and others (before Joe created admin status to the wiki last fall) can vouch, involves zombie PCs that are used to spam the wiki by anonymous editing. Spammers don't adhere to policy, and nothing we write will keep a spammer from making a mess of things. We were hit a lot last summer by this problem until Joe restricted anonymous editing. Spammers still get on, but now they have to make a more concerted effort, and it appears its hardly worth their time. The latest MediaWiki update might have further flummoxed them, as well. I'm for requiring registered users; IPs are too anonymous, and I want to credit or blame someone for changes, as well as not have some yahoo wreck months of everyone's work. We really aren't on here 24/7, so I can't say that's an effective argument for reinstating this. We see quite a number of new users each week, and the rate increases when new episodes are in play, so I can't see how opening what is already an open wiki (registration needed) will do. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:23, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

::We are 24/7. Usually when most of us are asleep Mercifull is online and same with Ford. Our Euorpe is base is growing. [[BW:PRO|Protecting]] important pages [[BW:SAC]] and such can be protected. If people where giving the oppertunity to prove themself instead of admins & users hiding behind the curtain of signing up. I don't see alot of vandlism at the Memory Alpha wiki which has open editing. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:28, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

:::I've expressed before, in my 3rd Administratorsship election, that I think we would get more contributions if we switched back to allowing all people to contribute. As for spammers being a problem: MemoryAlpha (The Star Trek Wiki) is open content and they are able to police their wiki against these problems quite well. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:09, 23 June 2006 (CDT)

::::I think it's an unnecessary risk, there are many people out there who would just join to mess things up. You of all people know this Merv. Also, for the past few months I have noticed that some people's thoughts about the wookie have changed to the negative. I don't think we are really in an information-full time where we need to allow unregistered users edit pages and be allowed to vote in wiki decisions. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:29 23 June (CDT)
:::::Even on Memory Alpha, unregistered users are not counted in actual site votes. You need an account. People's thoughts about the wiki have changed "to the negative"? If you're referring to the Moist Board gang such as loraque & Co, they're a dozen trolls that no one takes seriously, sauron. I don't need to tell you that :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:36, 23 June 2006 (CDT)
::::::My opinion is stated, I simply consider it an unnecessary risk. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 00:48 24 June 2006 (CDT)
:::::::Perhaps its something we could do as a trial period at some point after series 3 has started. At the moment i fear that if we open to all people would just be posting unsourced spoilers and fanfiction relating to series 3. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 04:47, 24 June 2006 (CDT)
::::::::Bad idea! BAAAAAD idea! It doesnt take a lot to register here - and with registered users, it means that if someone does post junk or whatnot, it's easy enough to block them from making edits and by being registered users, they have the added benefit of being part of the community - rather than fly by night posters. Just my 2p :) --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 07:18, 24 June 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::I agree with Ford. Merciful's idea might be a nice compromise. However, I don't see how the theoritical postives (maybe someone will post who would not otherwise) outweighs the known bads (vandalism and spamming will increase). There is very little that the great group of existing contributers miss. Is there a way to allow limited anonymous posting? Maybe to a "lost and found" page for info that the regular contributers may have missed. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 09:23, 24 June 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::::I like Mercifull's idea. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 10:47, 24 June 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::Personally, I don't fully agree with the idea that the more we open the wiki the more good contributors we'll get. Wikipedia, for instance, has a serious problem with anonymous IPs vandalizing Wikipedia with nonsense edits. (Sometimes they are minor and don't get caught for days, despite all the people that do RC patrol.) I'm more concerned with the quality of our editors and our articles than the quantity of either. If I may steal something that SV previously mentioned, we're scored on how well we do things, not on how timely they are. This doesn't mean that I'm not open for seeing whether or not we can relax some of the restrictions to editing, but before we just open the floodgates, we need to have a plan of action. Right now, it would be to our benefit to plan, seeing as this is our "downtime". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 17:18, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::::: What can I say? I agree with Joe. I think, too, that unregistered editing tested in the middle of a season would be dangerous. That is a time when we'll be getting a lot of attention (as opposed to now) and if we have some kind of melt down due to the test, we'd really be shooting ourselves in the foot. I'm much, much more concerned with quality over quantity. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 22:36, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

=== Poll on Mercifull's Idea ===
'''Support'''
* {{Support}} [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:04, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

'''Oppose'''
* {{oppose}} --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 22:34, 24 June 2006 (CDT)
* {{oppose}} A change like this should be a long-term committment. Either it works or it doesn't. I'm not fond on chasing down vandals or their ill-work over 1,299 articles, either. Once a zombie is in, their automation could spam EVERY. SINGLE. ARTICLE. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:18, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
* {{oppose}} --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:40, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
* {{oppose}} --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 18:44, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

I just want to comment that it was just an idea I was posting about. It was not meant as a formal proposal as I did not think it all though fully at the time of posting --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 14:48, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:Try not to take it personally. I don't think a referendum on this topic is out of line at all - I just happen to oppose it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:50, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
::I'm not taking it personally dont worry. I just wasnt especting for people to have a vote on a passing thought lol --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 15:37, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

== If there was... ==
[[Image:Forum Example.jpg|thumb|150px]]
http://forum.battlestarwiki.org

What would you ''like'' as your fourm format?
* Stylized BSG Format
* Seperate "Username" Database
** Found no plugin for sharing databases (sorry!)
* [http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=119241 "Wiki" Generation Links on the Forum]
* Used for non-pertaining Wiki discusstions
* ''Add your suggestion on this list...''

--[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:09, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

* Strictly administered. I'm tired of moronic conversations on other unnamed boards. I like the idea though. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 09:11, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

*I do not understand what you are proposing. If it's a subforum of some kind, we don't really need one. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 10:50, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

* This was proposed a while ago, I think, but we realized that none of the decent reasons for having a forum could not also be served by things that already exist. The Wiki, itsself, provides an infrastructure for discussing editing, etc. There are plenty of fora for discussing the show in a non-Wiki setting (allowing for wide-ranging speculation without worrying that people might think you're proposing inclusion of your craziness in an artile) and ours would just be in competition with them. If you want to get to know your fellow contributers, many share their AIM screen names and/or email addresses, and for those that don't, you could always ask. I guess what I'm saying is that I think the idea is kind of needless. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 22:40, 24 June 2006 (CDT)
**I agree with Day. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 08:10, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
*I found [http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=112973 this thread] with some information on merging databases which might be useful should people decide to have a forum here. Its a nice idea but i dont know if this place really has the demand for a forum right now? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 03:29, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

* The main reason I'd be interested in a forum would be as a possible way to get feedback from the "users". As easy as we think it is to edit a talk page, the whole "Wiki edit" system (and the user registration) is really intimidating for a lot of folks that might have some really relevent things to say. I'd like to find some way for the people that primarily read the wiki (rather than edit it) to have a voice. A forum isn't necessarily the only solution for this, but it is one possibility. The danger of the forum, of course, being that wiki-matters might get brought up there and not end up being discussed at the proper location on the wiki as well. The transparency of the decision-making, criticism, communication, etc. is one of the wiki's great strengths, and I would not want to jeopardize that. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:04, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
**I think thats one of the benefits of these mediawiki modifications for the forum in that you can link very easily to wiki pages. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 08:12, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

* I agree with SV. Also, I think that "learning" may be easier through a forum. Like an interactive formatting thread, or a NPOV thread, etc. with questions and answer. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 08:14, 26 June 2006 (CDT).

* For God's sake, no. One of the best things about the wiki is that all discussion takes place on talk pages here, and is easily visible by anyone - visitor or editor. I don't want to have to go to an entirely separate site to see discussions. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:54, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
**it is however a good way for administrators to communicate with each other securely --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 15:45, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:::Peter is correct that the open nature is healthy. Unlike other communities that shall remain nameless (*cough* skiffy *cough*) you get to see all the "deliberations" out in plain sight so there is no confusion as to why an action was taken. That's really refreshing. My biggest argument for an off-wiki means of communication was for giving a voice to those who can't/won't deal with the Wiki-editing UI. Which, theoretically we might be able to overcome through other means (some sort of a "suggestion box" page with a simple text window input, for example). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:02, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
::::I would expect the forum to be more off topic/chat type of place rather than relating directly to the wiki. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 16:19, 27 June 2006 (CDT)

== Style Sheet Completed ==

The style sheet and new "look" of BSG elements is done. You can view the style [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/Main_Page here], but their is no content. Once the style sheet is upload to this wiki, I am sure you will see a huge difference along with some major edits to change most of the elemtns into CSS. Myself and Mercifull have been working on this for a while. A "Mediawiki" color look will also be created. We will also create a "Template" page of the new CSS so people know the class of each element that is in the CSS in-case you are not familmar with CSS code. That's about it. The wiki is "open" edit so you can fool around with the new style. The images are not transfered yet (i.e. the new Site images) because I am working on the code to make sure they are loaded differently from the default. No images also work on the site. Comments on the [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Main page|main page]] project page. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:50, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

: Will this style sheet effort also be taking care of the non-default styles? I understand that the white background one is somewhat popular, as well, and so we'd want to alter the SS that it's working off of to interpret new classes into aesthetically synchronous colors, etc. I applaud the two of your for doing this. I kept wanting to, but was also feeling kind of daunted by the need to support multiple style sheets (that's a lot of CSSing!). --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 22:46, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

::The CSSing while be a problem because there are some many things to change. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:52, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

::: I thought... it was "Completed" already. Perhaps the verb "to CSS" is unclear. I envisioned it meaning the writing of the .css file specifically, not any connected changes to HTML. That miscommunication is probably my fault. Anyway, if you want to delegate something related to this project to me, I play well with CSS and XHTML, so I don't think I'd break anything irreparably. I also don't want to barge in and mess things up if you and Merciful have got a little groove going on, or something. Lemme know. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:51, 24 June 2006 (CDT)

::::CSS refers to <tt>class=</tt> and not <tt>id=</tt>. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 10:05, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::You must be confused. CSS selectors can select elements by both class and ID. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:22, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

::::: Indeed. CSS refers to Cascading Style Sheets. And, anyway, that distinction doesn't seem to relate to my post in the least. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:26, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

== Your Screen Resolution ==

Just before I take my vacation here, I want to know your screen resolution. Just incress the count or add your if it's not there. Thanks.
* 800x600 - 1
* 1024x728 - 4
* 1280x1024 - 3
* 1280x800 - 1
* 1400x1050 - 2
* 1600x1200 - 1
* 1680x1050 - 1
* 1900x1200 - 1

--[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:46, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

:Comment: As a mac user, I am unaccustomed to running my web browser at any fixed size. I strongly oppose any redesign which would require moving to fixed widths. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:21, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
::This is not dealing with the website. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:40, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
:: I am in Peter's boat as well, seeing as I edit on a G4 and typically have two browser windows opened side-by-side. (Particularly helpful when you're accessing online sources and writing an article at the same time.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:04, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
::Ditto. I use a Mac laptop. A Mac's higher resolution means that we usually see a website in a not-so-flattering manner. In the case of a screen saver, it would be best to offer one that works in the wider dimensions that all LCD Macs offer. That is, instead of 1024x768, make a 1024x640, or a 1152x720. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:26, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:::Shane is/was working on screensavers (win32 for now, but possibly mac in the future), and was looking at what size of background images, etc. he needed, I think. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:19, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:::This is irrelevant, but as a factual matter, Mac screens tend to have lower resolutions than comparably sized non-Mac screens. (The reason is preservation of 72dpi for graphic artists or somesuch, and this is not meant as flamebait.) I think you mean the aspect ratio is higher, as a 14" widescreen is physically smaller than a 14" 4:3 display and is thus likely to have a lower resolution. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 01:04, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

I use a 17" 1280x1024 5:4 TFT for daily use, 1680x1050 20.5" 16:10 TFT on another machine (not mine) and 1400x1050 5:4 on my laptop (Compaq Evo N180c) --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 18:47, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:1400x1050 is 4:3 (factor of 350). --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 01:04, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

== Quotes ==

I was thinking... if someone spots a typo in the quote of the day, there's no easy way for them to edit it. Should we make an (edit this) link in the title bar that's unobtrusive, or at least, maybe, make the title a link to [[Battlestar Wiki:Quotes]]? That do folks think? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 02:40, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:Click the little "quotes" [[Image:BSG WIKI Quotes.png|20px]] icon and it takes you right to the page for the current QOTD. Then you just gotta wait a couple of mins for the wiki to update the main page. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:09, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::You can also "force" a refresh, by adding "&action=purge" to the url, and running it. Some of the portals have a "refresh" button that do that very thing (more for refreshing the "subpages" that make up the portals). Regarding the main page links, Day is correct that there isn't a link to BW:QUOTE if you were looking to add to future quotes (or browse through the existing quotes). It might be nice to find a way to get that link in there somewhere. The icon link to the current day's quote is neat, though.--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:51, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:::I think a link to the main quotes page would be quite a cool feature to have on the left menu in the projects section --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:58, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:::: The icon being a link is great and all, but I find it entirely counter-intuitive. I, obviously, would never have guessed that it was there, and I imagine other users would think similarly. Can we brainstorm more straight-forward ideas, too? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 19:44, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::::: I would never have guessed it either. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 20:34, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Humanoid Cylon speculation/Archive4

2006-06-29T18:16:06Z

Scoke Faofa: /* Zak Adama? */

== Please aid in concision ==

This article combines the speculations of the Humano-Cylon and Gaius Baltar articles. As such, it is very wordy. I added the conditional summaries to avoid having to say "Ron Moore said this-and-that" in each item. Still, the article is really all over the place. We need to pare each suspect to the basics--bullets if necessary. Please base your information only on what has been mentioned or clearly stated. Lack of evidence ("Nothing says that the Cylons couldn't have been introduced 5 years before the attacks") is invalid to the information actually stated for both Valerii's and Six character--their history is unclear 2 years prior. Concision should clear up the unnecessary editorial here and bring it to basics. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:46, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:Agreed, it should have been edited down for the sake of concision, as other points are made elsewhere. Thank you for editing it down to size. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:48, 1 February 2006 (EST)

=="At least" 2 years==

No Cylon ever said out loud, "we've been infiltrating your society for two years"; we saw that Number Six was going out with baltar for 2 years, and then that Galactica-Boomer had been on Galactica for 2 years, then made the connection. However, although ''wide-scale'' infiltration apparently occured 2 years ago, we have no way of knowing if this is when infiltration of any kind actually began. Case in point; Ellen Tigh. A (deleted) scene said that she was married to Saul Tigh for 7 years. Now, I think it would be highly unlikely that the Cylons developed the humanoid Cylons 10 years after the Cylon War (30 years ago) or something, but the possibility that they were using them for the past 5-10 years seems within the realm of possibility to me. Again, there was never a definative "rule". --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:48, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:I tend to agree. Although circumstantial evidence points to a widespread infiltration campaign launching two years before the miniseries, we have no idea when the Cylons actually developed the ability to construct humanoid models. This, however, should be noted once at the head of the article, not on a per-candidate basis. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:10, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::The circumstantial evidence is all we can go on to keep from making stuff up out of the range of given information. It was Baltar, talking to Six, that gave the length of time, but I can't recall Valerii's comment or reference to it. Yes, we do need to avoid repetition; there's a lot of it. I don't believe this article is intending to address or imply that the humanoid Cylons were created 2 years prior, but begin to appear 2 years prior. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:49, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:::But that's really the point (not "when were they made"); when were they ''first'' used to infiltrate the Colonies? We really don't know; we only know that two units were inside for 2 years. BTW, it's in "The Farm" when Adama states that Boomer was on the ship for almost 2 years. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:35, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::::Katee Sackhoff mentioned in an interview that Starbuck had known Boomer for 7 years. That would mean 2 years on Galactica and 5 years of training before that, which makes sense as realisitically not even the Cylons could sneak an agent into the military without any training period. It's much harder than creating a civilian ID, and probably the reason why Boomer had to be a sleeper agent. --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:54, 2 March 2006 (EST)
:::::This could have just been subject to change. --00:43, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Billy's Entry ==
There is nothing of note in Billy's entry that could not be also said about Dualla, Tyrol, Cally, Racetrack, Kat, and other minor characters. It's unlikely that we can vouch for all character histories. It's their signficant, influential moments in an episode that appear questionable in intent, or their associations that are important. If there isn't a significant point about Billy's history that puts him at the same level of suspicion as Jammer or Bell, I move to strike this. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:06, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:Well, A) It's always the guy you least suspect, though that's more "paranoia" B) no one knows him, I mean even deckahands like Cally or Jammer were on the ship for at least a period of a few months, but *no one* other than Roslin met him before he first shows up on screen. And it would make sense to infiltrate a position with access to a cabinet member. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:37, 1 February 2006 (EST)
::Not disagreeing, but note that she was an extremely low-ranking cabinet member, and I doubt that the Cylons could have forseen either her "access" to Adar, or her assumption of the presidency after the attack. Besides, they already had Doral following her to Galactica's decommissioning ceremony. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 1 February 2006 (EST)

Given that Billy is now dead, his plausibility as a Cylon is completely moot ''unless'' he is found resurrected in a future episode (non-flashback). Only a Cylon agent comes back, which would validate the claim. Also, given that there hasn't been any further points that significantly differentiate his character's suspicion criteria over any other lesser character, I'd rather strike this. Farago's point that Roslin was accompanied by Doral indicates that ''Galactica'' was monitored anyway. There's no real logic leap that can give the Keikeya suspicion enough grounding in comparison to the others. Technically, Roslin herself could be a Cylon with the same logic in that we don't know for sure where she's been in the last two years beyond what's said in the miniseries and "Ephiphanies." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:58, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:If Billy was a cylon, what would his purpose have been? I can't see TPTB deciding to reveal him as a cylon in a future episode because it wouldn't make any sense! He would have had to be a sleeper agent, but he didn't do anything! For almost 9 months! When you're asleep that long, you're practically dead. It should be struck (striked?) --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 16:59, 25 February 2006 (EST)
::He could have been the person who meet Six, before he boarded the plane and meet Roslin? Everyday I keep going over this, so I just had to get it out there now. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:30, 26 March 2006 (CST)

:Part of the point of the Speculation page is that we're bringing up people who have been speculated as Cylons, and then we can actually ''disprove'' the posibility that they are Cylons; we do this, so that when visitors look at the list they can see why someone has been disproven or is still suspect; for example, we still keep Apollo's entry up even though there's frankly a snowball's chance on the sun that he is a Cylon. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:59, 26 March 2006 (CST)

== Apollo's Entry ==

Is it permissible to post a link to fanfiction? --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]]

: Permissible, possibly. But will it be helpful at all? The Lee-Is-A-Cylon thing is, as I understand it, perpetuated almost entirely by fanfiction. Except that a decent sized group of BSG (RDM) fans like this idea, we'd have thrown Lee off the list a long time ago because we can attest to the fact that he has a father. Linking the fiction would, I think, make it easy for a casual reading to misconstrue a case for Lee's being a Cylon as anything more than ver, very weak. Also... for ease of reading, please try to remember to sign your posts. Easy mistake to make. Just keep it in mind. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:46, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:Under ''no'' circumstances is it permissible; didn't the section on Apollo make the point that BattlestarWiki does not support such things? Honestly; 20 people make a Apollo-as-Cylon fanfic, then post links to it ''endlessly'' on the poorly-moderated official messageboards. This matter should be dropped. I am sorry, but on this matter there is no question. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:45, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Baltar's Entry ==

Can we rule out Baltar as a Cylon now that we've seen "Downloaded"? The whole thing with Six seeing BALTAR in her head seem to imply a certain duality... Six's Baltar is trying to push the human agenda, and Baltar's Six is trying to push the Cylon agenda.--[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 23:54, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes, please. If Baltar were a Cylon, they couldn't have ''not'' mentioned it in "Downloaded". The whole line of inquiriy is ridiculous. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:00, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::Plus, numerous Cylon characters referred to him as human. I'm glad. I think it's a lot less interesting if he were a Cylon. I feel a bit reluctant to remove the whole thing though... I'll just add some information against it from Downloaded, and if anyone else feels it needs to go, they're welcome to delete it. --[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 00:02, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::My inclination is to give the "Baltar is a Cylon" boosters a couple days to defend the material here before we chop it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:05, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::By all means, I feel that we should give them a few days to defend themselves. However, although Six hallucinates Baltar...it is clearly implied that no other Cylons knew about him, and Number Three even says that they both fell in love with humans.
My feelings on the matter, summed up into an easy to read list, are:
:*Baltar-Six is definately NOT the same person as the Number Six we see at the beginning of the Miniseries: Caprica-Six is someone else entirely. Did she load *a separate, backup copy* of herself into Baltar? Still a possibility.
:*Baltar-Six is not a hallucination, this has been proven in "Home, Part II", but no chip is visible on scans: I believe that she is an "Organic Chip", undetectable to scans, and not an "angel" as she claims.
:*Caprica-Six's hallucinated visions of Baltar on the other hand, are simply that: hallucinations, brought on by the apparent stress of killing the man she loved
:*As an inhuman robot not used to emotions or love, this had a profound affect on her; even disregarding Baltar, she is also feeling profound guilt over killing the human race, because after loving Baltar, she's come to think that a loving God would never want what the Cylons did.
:So he's not a Cylon; it's just a cool way of visually showing us that Number Six and the Cylons are so near-human that when placed under moral strain or something, they can hallucinate just like people can. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:50, 25 February 2006 (EST)

*I will go out on a limb, and propose that this is in fact conclusive proof that Baltar is not a Cylon, because the Cylons amongst themselves say that he is a human. I had been waiting until (my pet theory) Baltar impregnants Gina, but now I feel that this is grounds, '''Spencerian''', to remind you of our [[Talk:Gaius Baltar#A Friendly Wager, Spencerian|Gentlemanly wager]], that if Baltar were proved not to be a Cylon, you would support me in an Administrator election. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:53, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::Not only is the notion staking an RFA vote on a petty wager rather more than a little disquieting, I'm not even sure Spence ever agreed to those terms. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:12, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::Given that it was a back and forth conversation, to which he gave no refusal in reply, at the time at least, this gave the impression of tacit admission of the terms. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:45, 25 February 2006 (EST)

The wager is not changed, but you came very close to losing it in "Downloaded." Nor, however, has any proof been revealed in this episode that negates the possibility of Baltar as a Cylon. In fact, since ''only'' Baltar and Six have appeared as virtual beings, this actually ''reinforces,'' not diminishes the possibility since, to this episode, only a Cylon image has appeared this way. Since ''both'' Baltar and Six appear as virtual beings to each other, AND this phenomena is obviously not known or planned for by the Cylons, this doesn't change the nature of what Baltar is or is not (or, by extension, Six). The results from "Downloaded" DO invalidate some of the postulations in the Gaius-the-Cylon speculation, which I will note when I can. When humans and Cylons are in love, things get weird. Note that this hasn't happened with Boomer and Tyrol, but maybe, maybe, their love was not complete enough to create this strange exchange of "love echo." Oh, and for two beings to have the ''exact'' kind of "hallucination" suggests that it is not an hallucination at all. Something else is going on. Peter's point on Baltar's lack of note by other Cylons, however, does have a point, of which I will chew on before commenting further. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:But if Baltar was a Cylon, than why was Six-Baltar pushing for the "human agenda" and talking about how bad it was that millions of humans were killed? --[[User:Mojorising1985|mojorisng1985]] 18:04, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::It was her impression of Baltar (whom she thinks is human). (I think this whole line of speculation is absolutely ludicrous, by the way; but that question really doesn't change anything.) --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:21, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::Indeed, this is absolutely nuts. From an in-continuity perspective, the only way Baltar could ''possibly'' be a Cylon as of this episode would be if neither Caprica-Six, Galactica-Valerii, or Caprica-Three knew about it. Caprica-Three appeared to be very high-ranking - she apparently has the authority to have other cylons "boxed", and she knew that Baltar was still alive - something that was not public knowlege. From a dramatic perspective, it's completely impossible, and would invalidate the last two seasons worth of character development. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:51, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:"We're two heroes of the cylon, right? Two heroes with different perspectives on the war. Perspectives based by our love of two human beings". Cylons, talking amongst themselves, refer to Baltar as a human being in the episode "Downloaded". This alone is quite a good piece of evidence. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:46, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::OK, the damage done to Baltar's speculation is nearly complete, but I do not fully concede. I've clarified the information from "Downloaded" but added one important matter: Since the virtual Six and Baltar are not a Cylon creation, where in the world do they come from, and why doesn't Tyrol have a virtual Boomer? Until more information comes out, its my last shot in this salvo that still leaves a thread of doubt. We'll need to condense Baltar's entry later since many concepts there appear invalidated or contradictory to aired content. Oh, and just because the two Cylons believed they were in love with two humans doesn't make it patently true. What did Baltar think ''he'' was shagging before Six's revelation? The writers twist and turn, and I don't believe we're done with this, but yep, my ship is sinking, although not sunk, and I'm still armed with name-calling, a claim that you smell of elderberries, and flatulence in your general direction. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:34, 3 March 2006 (CST)

:In Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II when Baltar has sex with Gina, does that disprove once him being a cylon. I would think that anyone who would have doubts after Downloaded would have to accept the fact that Baltar's spine did not turn red and therefore he can't be a cylon. Ronald D. Moore himself said in the commentary in the mini-series that the Humano-Cylon spines all turn red. Shouldn't we take him off of the speculated Humano-Cylon agent list?--Zareck Rocks 16:45, 12 March 2006 (CST)

== Additional Qualifier for Speculation? ==

"According to Ron D. Moore, the twelve humanoid models are based on human behavior and personality archetypes distilled into twelve varieties."

It would seem, then, that any new Cylon agents will also need to have reasonably archetypal personalities that are notably different from known agents.
--[[User:Mckooper|Mckooper]] 14:24, 6 March 2006 (CST)
:Very true. Good thinking. Personally I find Billy to be too much like Doral.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:31, 6 March (EST)

:: This is my main arguement against Ellen Tigh being a Cylon. She's the same, archetypally, as Six, basically: The attractive, sexually agressive blonde. I'm waiting for model, let's say, Number 12: The Nerd. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:30, 7 March 2006 (CST)

== Lay Down Your Burdens ==

Wouldn't the Season Finale exonerate Ellen, the Adamas and Gaeta? There were dozens of Centurions marching through that city. Surely if Ellen were a Cylon, she would have simply joined in the parade as a matter of pride? The Adamas wouldn't have jumped away of either of them were Cylons. And if Gaeta were a Cylon, wouldn't he have simply dropped the charade when he told Baltar they had arrived? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 11:59, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:Even in German-occupied France in World War II, the Gestapo still had spies pretending to be French to try to infiltrate any resistance. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:07, 11 March 2006 (CST)
::Yes, and we have no particular reason to believe that conquering New Caprica is the end goal for the Cylons; this may only be a push to guide them in a different direction, in which the hidden agents still have a role to play. That said, I do wonder what new human models we'll see on New Caprica. My guess is that at least one will be of the same type as someone in Adama's fleet. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 13:11, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:They may be sleeper agents anyway, and their programming didn't tell them to "wake up"[[User:Mrxerox|MrXerox]] 1:38 19 March 2006 (CST)

== The Chief? ==

What about the chief? Should someone add something for him? Cavil... who was later revealed to be a Cylon, said that he hadn't seen him at any of the cylon parties, the same thing six said about doral. Plus, he kept on wondering why Tyrol couldn't see what was "right in front of his face". And he said "I'm not a Cylon", just like Boomer did in the season 1 finale. It might at least be a possibility. Finally, Cally's pregnancy might be an attempt at creating something similar to Helo/Boomer's child, but with the gender reversed... to see if a Cylon could impregnate a human female. Indeed, that was my intital thought when I accidentally stumbled across pictures of Cally pregnant.

Nah, Tyrol can't be a Cylon. That doesn't fit the Cylon M.O. of trying to make a baby. Remember that Tyrol was with Sharon before, and that they were planing to "Muster out at the end of their service," and get married and have kids, ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). --[[User:FIDS|FIDS]] 12:07, 12 March 2006 (CST)

if the chief were a Cylon, Three wouldn't have been as worried about Galactica-Sharon in "Downloaded." She would have just shown her another Tyrol copy. It's essentially the same reason Baltar can't be a Cylon: they may try to hide it from the humans, but why hide it from other Cylons? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:27, 12 March 2006 (EST)

:I don't believe Tyrol to be a Cylon, but (A) Two sleeper agents '''would''' plan on mustering out and getting married, not knowing the attack was coming, and (B) What good would showing her another Tyrol do? He wouldn't be Tyrol. If anything it would make things worse for Sharon.
:Can we come up with some better disqualifing facts?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:47, 23 March 2006 (EST)
::Cylons have demonstrated great interest in procreation with humans, and absolutely none with other Cylons. It fits with what we know of the Cylon plan for Sharon to want to seduce a human. If Tyrol were a Cylon, it would force us to violate Occam's razor on this count. Also, like the suggestion that Baltar might be a Cylon, this demands that one of the twelve models existance has been ekpt secret from the Cylons on Caprica, which seems silly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:39, 23 March 2006 (CST)
::You guys are forgetting that the 7 Cylon models we know as of now, are the significant seven, and they have no clue on who the final five Cylon models are. ([[User:Cloud02|Cloud02]] 13:40, 2 June 2006 (CDT))
:::A) we're not sure about that info quite yet B ) I think there are limits to it. I mean, I think what Grace meant was "the Cylon on New Caprica have been programmed to not know who the other 5 are so they don't give it away involuntarily to the humans", but logically the ones on CAPRICA would not have any such restriction (they didn't run into the same 7 Cylons there). That's why I'm not really basing anything on her comments, until we get more info later. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:47, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

==Analysis==

I think it would be good if we formated this with a case for and case against section, that is, like in the Adama sections, have the first section say "this is why we initially suspected him", but then say at the end "this other event (i.e. Cylons amongst themselves referring to a character as human)", makes it impossible for this character to be a Cylon.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:45, 4 April 2006 (CDT)

: Makes sense to me... --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) 22:46, 4 April 2006 (CDT)

==Baltar as Cylon Zero==

I'm sorry, but this part of it all is just too much, using questionable "facts" to prove a more questionable theory. It just doesn't make sense to add it, since there isn't even any Cylon Zero mentioned --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 12:37 19 April 2006

:After reading this, I find a few tenuous snippets of intriguing possibility on the original premise. The bulk of the section that tries to support the premise, however, is pure speculation, which I will cull, as well as retitling the section more germanely. I believe I can add or reinforce the central thought. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:58, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::Rewritten. I believe the concepts are more digestable, do not rehash existing points (the page is getting long, anyway), and points to the new crux of what the heck ARE the virtual Six and Baltar and how in the heck does Baltar seem to work "God's" work in those season 1 episodes. That's something I'm sure will haunt him (and the other characters) later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:34, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Not a single piece of it was acceptable, I am sorry, but we cannot coddle this. I have removed it entirely. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:59, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::::I agree. Sorry, Spence. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:11, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::::Not a problem: was trying to salvage rather than obliterate an addition. I had that first reaction myself. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::Thank you Peter: sometimes I worry that I act hastily, but often we get new users who jump on and say their own pet theories, and as an encyclopedia we cannot tolerate hundreds of people's pet theories, just prevailing ones: i.e. I disagree with "could Baltar be one of the 12 Cylon models?" but enough people on messageboards suggest it that I felt it had merit to stay (as speculation) here, and then to note as the series wore on that it has been (by and large) disproven by the evidence. But that guy saying "hmm, those nukes must have been detonated by suicide bombers" when you SEE basestars in orbit nuking the planet, is sillyness. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:16, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::If it were up to me, I'd completely eliminate Ellen, Lee, Bill and Gaius from that list. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:06, 19 April 2006
:::::::No. It helps people to show who couldn't be a Cylon, so they won't add it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:35, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::::Could we just lay out the (very conclusive) evidence against their being cylons, and dispense with any further discussion on the topic? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:43, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::Maybe. But then, would we have EVER thought we'd see Starbuck give Tigh a HUG? Anything is possible with RDM and especially in light of the end of Season 2. If anything, keeping the speculation and its conclusions there there prevents someone from putting it back with rehashed items. We should note the high unlikelihood as per the article's purpose in each section. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 20 April 2006 (CDT)

==Restructuring==
I'm revising this article. I'm spent a lot of time sifting through messageboard speculation, and I'm going to list other characters: again, we shouldn't just list "people who might be Cylons", but for other people, such as say, Adama, who ''have'' "reason" to be suspected of being a Cylon, to help out readers trying to figure out who's a Cylon we should list how sucha person might be suspected of being a Cylon, but also, that this possibility has been disproven. I'm putting little bolded tags onto the bottom of each one, summarizing the actual chance such a person has of being a Cylon after reading the entire article: that is, summary of the William Adama article: "'''Possibility of being a Cylon: None'''". Meanwhile, the "point" of the entire Ellen Tigh article could be summed up as "well she could conceivably be a Cylon and is a shifty character but could also not be and RDM isn't pushing it too hard", so "'''Possibility of being a Cylon: Moderate"'''. If you want to change someone's odds of being a Cylon, just do so and if there's any arguement over the particulars of it, we can debate the merits on this Discussion page. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:37, 30 May 2006 (CDT)
:Just to elaborate: so many times on messageboards I see people saying "well maybe Anders is a Cylon", or "maybe Roslin's a Cylon", that I really want to just list here "Roslin: can't be a Cylon because...etc"; just round out the full regular cast, plus anyone who's non-Cylonness has been confirmed. Just a guide to help people.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:03, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

:: That doesn't sound unreasonable. I also like the idea of a little summary tag for each person so that, if you only wanted to read (dis)proofs, you could skip the ones that have any change besides "none". I'm interested to see how this turns out. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 22:51, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

:: I've been reading this page as you do it. Make sure you cite the Episode. I already marked something under Dullea because I never seen or saw something that provved she acually married Lee Adama. {{tl|citation needed}}. Also I like to point out that your doing the same thing as the message boards, just listing character. At this point, you can list every character at this point and say they are a potiential Cylon. Maybe add something to the {{tl|Character Data}} template with their "cylon" chances if they do exist, but because there is ltitle "citation" it should not appear on this page. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:25, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

== Chief and Cally + Company ==

We already establish from LDYB II that these three can not be Cylons. Why were they added? In this discussion (above) it proves this point. Reason to put Cain? She's been around for 20 years and already has a history from being an Admiral? This makes no sence to be placed on this page. Tom? Need I say more. "''Due to being such a publicly known figure for so Tory Foster, Cheif, Helena Cain, Tom Zarek, Kara Thrace, and Cally and decades before the Cylon Attack, Zarek could not be a Cylon.''" Kara Thrace? Please... alot of these should be removed.

For reason I should this is the list that should be removed (and update this list if you think it should be removed also. '''This is not a Keep list.'''):

*Laura Roslin
*Tory Foster
*Cheif
*Helena Cain
*Tom Zarek
*Kara Thrace
*Cally
*Helo (Only has one entry? Why is it here?)

--[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:36, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

A) I did this in a hurry, and I'm not done B) because I'm leaving for a convention in NYC Ron Moore and the cast are going to C)I want the people DEFINATELY DISPROVEN to be on the list as well, or at least a shorter subheader going "these people can't be CYlons, here's why" so people can see that they have been disproven (meanwhile, people like, Captain Kelly we know so little about that we don't suspect them, nor has their innocence been proven, or like Kat). ****Battlestar Galactica Magazine did a similar "who is the main cast is a Cylon?" list but it was based on their BEHAVIOR, which as we all know can be implanted, so I wanted to do a fuller list, which explains how these people can't be Cylons. **I'll get to work on this later. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 06:13, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:Creating a page to proove to RDM and cast is not a reason to expand this page Merv. Maybe these should be put in a new page called [[Human speculation]]. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 06:29, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

::I do not understand what you just said: I didn't "create" a page this thing has been here for like a year: as I already said, I listed the other people in order to list the reasons that dispel why some fan reading our site might think they're a Cylon, because the magazine had an article which (wrongly, I felt) kind of included them in the speculation. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 07:25, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
:::Then where is the citation. I have to say, in most case you say you now where eerything is coming from, but forget to cite where this was posted. If this is the case, there should be a footnoote for everyone of the ones that came from the magazine, page number and all. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 07:28, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
::::He's not quoting the article in this case (correct me if I'm wrong), but using it as precedent for the type of article. Also, the minute we yank a "Cylon candidate" (no matter how unlikely) somebody will come along and add them back because they believe that they might be a Cylon. Having concise, cited, definitive arguments against their being Cylons is good inoculation against a larger, speculative theory about the possibility of them being Cylons. This article has served as an excellent "containment area" to house some of the more "message board style" argument and speculation, and it has come a long way towards being well cited since its original inception. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:46, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:::::I concur with SV. We should leave ALL entries placed here, but we can concise the entries that are highly unlikely of being an agent to its root reason, and leave arguments for characters with stronger suspicions for later detail. We need to be mindful of this article's size. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:13, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:::::: Are there any points, specifically, Shane that you see needing citation (besides the rather tangental note about whether Apollo and Dee are married now)? If so, please note them here... Maybe some of us happen to know where the information came from off the top of our head. Maybe not, but then, at least, we could all be in on this, rather than you vaguely requesting more citations from Merv, who, as he mentioned, will be out of town for a while soon. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 00:07, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

Hey, I'm back for an hour or two: I think this turned out well with the stuff you guys touched up. Yeah, I did this in a hurry and need to put in citations and stuff (the APollo+Dualla citation is on the Dualla and Apollo bio pages, but I'll add it in plus other stuff as needed). I'll be tinkering with this....--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:26, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

== The Doctor ==

Im surprised to see that no one has suggested him. He knows almost everything there is to know about the insides of the fleet, and he knows about the cylon baby. ([[User:Cloud02|Cloud02]] 13:54, 2 June 2006 (CDT))
:You could if you want but we have to list the why's and whatfor's. I think he's never done anything overtly suspicious, and thus falls into the same category as like, Captain Kelly and 3 dozen other named characters on the show like Racetrack; we know so little about them that there is no specific reason to suspect them. I only listed the main cast and some of the bigger recurring characters just because they're the most frequent names.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:22, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

::Actually, someone did suggest it (I say "suggest", he vehemently insisted) Cottle for a Cylon on the Doc's talk page. The general opinion of those in the discussion was that every viable argument for Cottle (doesn't complain about treating a Cylon, is sympathetic to said Cylon, and opposed separating Hera from her mother) more likely stems from him being a doctor than being an agent. --[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 16:21, 4 June 2006 (CDT)

== Cleanup Required ==

This article is the wiki's largest, at over 45Kb, which might break on some browsers. At the same time, it's one of our most active "unexplained mysteries" page and I don't want any content removed (especially given our heated and fun pro-con arguments to date). Still, this page needs to be broken down to subarticles. Perhaps the Gaius Baltar section should be made into a subarticle to start, which should greatly help in page size (it should not be deleted; sorry Merv--other newbies need to see the progression of the logic, even with the new information, to avoid redundant information). If anyone else has suggestions, pipe in. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:47, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

:I never finished updating this page, it's been a work in progress for a week: I'll get to this tonight. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 10:50, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

== Zak Adama? ==

Has anyone thought of Zak Adama as a possible Cylon model? I know he was William Adama's son, and William probably was there when he was born, but it is something to think about. When Leoben told Roslin that "Adama was a Cylon", it was obvious that he was lying. But he does mix truth with lies. Lee and William are about 99.99% NOT cylons. But maybe they somehow did something with Zak... I think in the new BSG comic there is something about Zak in there, but I'm not sure how canon that is, and also the fact that the comic hasn't ended yet, so we don't know the whole story. --[[User:Scoke Faofa|Scoke Faofa]] 13:15, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Humanoid Cylon speculation/Archive4

2006-06-29T18:15:22Z

Scoke Faofa: /* Zak Adama? */

== Please aid in concision ==

This article combines the speculations of the Humano-Cylon and Gaius Baltar articles. As such, it is very wordy. I added the conditional summaries to avoid having to say "Ron Moore said this-and-that" in each item. Still, the article is really all over the place. We need to pare each suspect to the basics--bullets if necessary. Please base your information only on what has been mentioned or clearly stated. Lack of evidence ("Nothing says that the Cylons couldn't have been introduced 5 years before the attacks") is invalid to the information actually stated for both Valerii's and Six character--their history is unclear 2 years prior. Concision should clear up the unnecessary editorial here and bring it to basics. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:46, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:Agreed, it should have been edited down for the sake of concision, as other points are made elsewhere. Thank you for editing it down to size. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:48, 1 February 2006 (EST)

=="At least" 2 years==

No Cylon ever said out loud, "we've been infiltrating your society for two years"; we saw that Number Six was going out with baltar for 2 years, and then that Galactica-Boomer had been on Galactica for 2 years, then made the connection. However, although ''wide-scale'' infiltration apparently occured 2 years ago, we have no way of knowing if this is when infiltration of any kind actually began. Case in point; Ellen Tigh. A (deleted) scene said that she was married to Saul Tigh for 7 years. Now, I think it would be highly unlikely that the Cylons developed the humanoid Cylons 10 years after the Cylon War (30 years ago) or something, but the possibility that they were using them for the past 5-10 years seems within the realm of possibility to me. Again, there was never a definative "rule". --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:48, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:I tend to agree. Although circumstantial evidence points to a widespread infiltration campaign launching two years before the miniseries, we have no idea when the Cylons actually developed the ability to construct humanoid models. This, however, should be noted once at the head of the article, not on a per-candidate basis. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:10, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::The circumstantial evidence is all we can go on to keep from making stuff up out of the range of given information. It was Baltar, talking to Six, that gave the length of time, but I can't recall Valerii's comment or reference to it. Yes, we do need to avoid repetition; there's a lot of it. I don't believe this article is intending to address or imply that the humanoid Cylons were created 2 years prior, but begin to appear 2 years prior. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:49, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:::But that's really the point (not "when were they made"); when were they ''first'' used to infiltrate the Colonies? We really don't know; we only know that two units were inside for 2 years. BTW, it's in "The Farm" when Adama states that Boomer was on the ship for almost 2 years. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:35, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::::Katee Sackhoff mentioned in an interview that Starbuck had known Boomer for 7 years. That would mean 2 years on Galactica and 5 years of training before that, which makes sense as realisitically not even the Cylons could sneak an agent into the military without any training period. It's much harder than creating a civilian ID, and probably the reason why Boomer had to be a sleeper agent. --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:54, 2 March 2006 (EST)
:::::This could have just been subject to change. --00:43, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Billy's Entry ==
There is nothing of note in Billy's entry that could not be also said about Dualla, Tyrol, Cally, Racetrack, Kat, and other minor characters. It's unlikely that we can vouch for all character histories. It's their signficant, influential moments in an episode that appear questionable in intent, or their associations that are important. If there isn't a significant point about Billy's history that puts him at the same level of suspicion as Jammer or Bell, I move to strike this. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:06, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:Well, A) It's always the guy you least suspect, though that's more "paranoia" B) no one knows him, I mean even deckahands like Cally or Jammer were on the ship for at least a period of a few months, but *no one* other than Roslin met him before he first shows up on screen. And it would make sense to infiltrate a position with access to a cabinet member. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:37, 1 February 2006 (EST)
::Not disagreeing, but note that she was an extremely low-ranking cabinet member, and I doubt that the Cylons could have forseen either her "access" to Adar, or her assumption of the presidency after the attack. Besides, they already had Doral following her to Galactica's decommissioning ceremony. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 1 February 2006 (EST)

Given that Billy is now dead, his plausibility as a Cylon is completely moot ''unless'' he is found resurrected in a future episode (non-flashback). Only a Cylon agent comes back, which would validate the claim. Also, given that there hasn't been any further points that significantly differentiate his character's suspicion criteria over any other lesser character, I'd rather strike this. Farago's point that Roslin was accompanied by Doral indicates that ''Galactica'' was monitored anyway. There's no real logic leap that can give the Keikeya suspicion enough grounding in comparison to the others. Technically, Roslin herself could be a Cylon with the same logic in that we don't know for sure where she's been in the last two years beyond what's said in the miniseries and "Ephiphanies." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:58, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:If Billy was a cylon, what would his purpose have been? I can't see TPTB deciding to reveal him as a cylon in a future episode because it wouldn't make any sense! He would have had to be a sleeper agent, but he didn't do anything! For almost 9 months! When you're asleep that long, you're practically dead. It should be struck (striked?) --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 16:59, 25 February 2006 (EST)
::He could have been the person who meet Six, before he boarded the plane and meet Roslin? Everyday I keep going over this, so I just had to get it out there now. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:30, 26 March 2006 (CST)

:Part of the point of the Speculation page is that we're bringing up people who have been speculated as Cylons, and then we can actually ''disprove'' the posibility that they are Cylons; we do this, so that when visitors look at the list they can see why someone has been disproven or is still suspect; for example, we still keep Apollo's entry up even though there's frankly a snowball's chance on the sun that he is a Cylon. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:59, 26 March 2006 (CST)

== Apollo's Entry ==

Is it permissible to post a link to fanfiction? --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]]

: Permissible, possibly. But will it be helpful at all? The Lee-Is-A-Cylon thing is, as I understand it, perpetuated almost entirely by fanfiction. Except that a decent sized group of BSG (RDM) fans like this idea, we'd have thrown Lee off the list a long time ago because we can attest to the fact that he has a father. Linking the fiction would, I think, make it easy for a casual reading to misconstrue a case for Lee's being a Cylon as anything more than ver, very weak. Also... for ease of reading, please try to remember to sign your posts. Easy mistake to make. Just keep it in mind. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:46, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:Under ''no'' circumstances is it permissible; didn't the section on Apollo make the point that BattlestarWiki does not support such things? Honestly; 20 people make a Apollo-as-Cylon fanfic, then post links to it ''endlessly'' on the poorly-moderated official messageboards. This matter should be dropped. I am sorry, but on this matter there is no question. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:45, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Baltar's Entry ==

Can we rule out Baltar as a Cylon now that we've seen "Downloaded"? The whole thing with Six seeing BALTAR in her head seem to imply a certain duality... Six's Baltar is trying to push the human agenda, and Baltar's Six is trying to push the Cylon agenda.--[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 23:54, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes, please. If Baltar were a Cylon, they couldn't have ''not'' mentioned it in "Downloaded". The whole line of inquiriy is ridiculous. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:00, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::Plus, numerous Cylon characters referred to him as human. I'm glad. I think it's a lot less interesting if he were a Cylon. I feel a bit reluctant to remove the whole thing though... I'll just add some information against it from Downloaded, and if anyone else feels it needs to go, they're welcome to delete it. --[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 00:02, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::My inclination is to give the "Baltar is a Cylon" boosters a couple days to defend the material here before we chop it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:05, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::By all means, I feel that we should give them a few days to defend themselves. However, although Six hallucinates Baltar...it is clearly implied that no other Cylons knew about him, and Number Three even says that they both fell in love with humans.
My feelings on the matter, summed up into an easy to read list, are:
:*Baltar-Six is definately NOT the same person as the Number Six we see at the beginning of the Miniseries: Caprica-Six is someone else entirely. Did she load *a separate, backup copy* of herself into Baltar? Still a possibility.
:*Baltar-Six is not a hallucination, this has been proven in "Home, Part II", but no chip is visible on scans: I believe that she is an "Organic Chip", undetectable to scans, and not an "angel" as she claims.
:*Caprica-Six's hallucinated visions of Baltar on the other hand, are simply that: hallucinations, brought on by the apparent stress of killing the man she loved
:*As an inhuman robot not used to emotions or love, this had a profound affect on her; even disregarding Baltar, she is also feeling profound guilt over killing the human race, because after loving Baltar, she's come to think that a loving God would never want what the Cylons did.
:So he's not a Cylon; it's just a cool way of visually showing us that Number Six and the Cylons are so near-human that when placed under moral strain or something, they can hallucinate just like people can. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:50, 25 February 2006 (EST)

*I will go out on a limb, and propose that this is in fact conclusive proof that Baltar is not a Cylon, because the Cylons amongst themselves say that he is a human. I had been waiting until (my pet theory) Baltar impregnants Gina, but now I feel that this is grounds, '''Spencerian''', to remind you of our [[Talk:Gaius Baltar#A Friendly Wager, Spencerian|Gentlemanly wager]], that if Baltar were proved not to be a Cylon, you would support me in an Administrator election. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:53, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::Not only is the notion staking an RFA vote on a petty wager rather more than a little disquieting, I'm not even sure Spence ever agreed to those terms. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:12, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::Given that it was a back and forth conversation, to which he gave no refusal in reply, at the time at least, this gave the impression of tacit admission of the terms. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:45, 25 February 2006 (EST)

The wager is not changed, but you came very close to losing it in "Downloaded." Nor, however, has any proof been revealed in this episode that negates the possibility of Baltar as a Cylon. In fact, since ''only'' Baltar and Six have appeared as virtual beings, this actually ''reinforces,'' not diminishes the possibility since, to this episode, only a Cylon image has appeared this way. Since ''both'' Baltar and Six appear as virtual beings to each other, AND this phenomena is obviously not known or planned for by the Cylons, this doesn't change the nature of what Baltar is or is not (or, by extension, Six). The results from "Downloaded" DO invalidate some of the postulations in the Gaius-the-Cylon speculation, which I will note when I can. When humans and Cylons are in love, things get weird. Note that this hasn't happened with Boomer and Tyrol, but maybe, maybe, their love was not complete enough to create this strange exchange of "love echo." Oh, and for two beings to have the ''exact'' kind of "hallucination" suggests that it is not an hallucination at all. Something else is going on. Peter's point on Baltar's lack of note by other Cylons, however, does have a point, of which I will chew on before commenting further. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:But if Baltar was a Cylon, than why was Six-Baltar pushing for the "human agenda" and talking about how bad it was that millions of humans were killed? --[[User:Mojorising1985|mojorisng1985]] 18:04, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::It was her impression of Baltar (whom she thinks is human). (I think this whole line of speculation is absolutely ludicrous, by the way; but that question really doesn't change anything.) --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:21, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::Indeed, this is absolutely nuts. From an in-continuity perspective, the only way Baltar could ''possibly'' be a Cylon as of this episode would be if neither Caprica-Six, Galactica-Valerii, or Caprica-Three knew about it. Caprica-Three appeared to be very high-ranking - she apparently has the authority to have other cylons "boxed", and she knew that Baltar was still alive - something that was not public knowlege. From a dramatic perspective, it's completely impossible, and would invalidate the last two seasons worth of character development. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:51, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:"We're two heroes of the cylon, right? Two heroes with different perspectives on the war. Perspectives based by our love of two human beings". Cylons, talking amongst themselves, refer to Baltar as a human being in the episode "Downloaded". This alone is quite a good piece of evidence. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:46, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::OK, the damage done to Baltar's speculation is nearly complete, but I do not fully concede. I've clarified the information from "Downloaded" but added one important matter: Since the virtual Six and Baltar are not a Cylon creation, where in the world do they come from, and why doesn't Tyrol have a virtual Boomer? Until more information comes out, its my last shot in this salvo that still leaves a thread of doubt. We'll need to condense Baltar's entry later since many concepts there appear invalidated or contradictory to aired content. Oh, and just because the two Cylons believed they were in love with two humans doesn't make it patently true. What did Baltar think ''he'' was shagging before Six's revelation? The writers twist and turn, and I don't believe we're done with this, but yep, my ship is sinking, although not sunk, and I'm still armed with name-calling, a claim that you smell of elderberries, and flatulence in your general direction. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:34, 3 March 2006 (CST)

:In Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II when Baltar has sex with Gina, does that disprove once him being a cylon. I would think that anyone who would have doubts after Downloaded would have to accept the fact that Baltar's spine did not turn red and therefore he can't be a cylon. Ronald D. Moore himself said in the commentary in the mini-series that the Humano-Cylon spines all turn red. Shouldn't we take him off of the speculated Humano-Cylon agent list?--Zareck Rocks 16:45, 12 March 2006 (CST)

== Additional Qualifier for Speculation? ==

"According to Ron D. Moore, the twelve humanoid models are based on human behavior and personality archetypes distilled into twelve varieties."

It would seem, then, that any new Cylon agents will also need to have reasonably archetypal personalities that are notably different from known agents.
--[[User:Mckooper|Mckooper]] 14:24, 6 March 2006 (CST)
:Very true. Good thinking. Personally I find Billy to be too much like Doral.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:31, 6 March (EST)

:: This is my main arguement against Ellen Tigh being a Cylon. She's the same, archetypally, as Six, basically: The attractive, sexually agressive blonde. I'm waiting for model, let's say, Number 12: The Nerd. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:30, 7 March 2006 (CST)

== Lay Down Your Burdens ==

Wouldn't the Season Finale exonerate Ellen, the Adamas and Gaeta? There were dozens of Centurions marching through that city. Surely if Ellen were a Cylon, she would have simply joined in the parade as a matter of pride? The Adamas wouldn't have jumped away of either of them were Cylons. And if Gaeta were a Cylon, wouldn't he have simply dropped the charade when he told Baltar they had arrived? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 11:59, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:Even in German-occupied France in World War II, the Gestapo still had spies pretending to be French to try to infiltrate any resistance. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:07, 11 March 2006 (CST)
::Yes, and we have no particular reason to believe that conquering New Caprica is the end goal for the Cylons; this may only be a push to guide them in a different direction, in which the hidden agents still have a role to play. That said, I do wonder what new human models we'll see on New Caprica. My guess is that at least one will be of the same type as someone in Adama's fleet. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 13:11, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:They may be sleeper agents anyway, and their programming didn't tell them to "wake up"[[User:Mrxerox|MrXerox]] 1:38 19 March 2006 (CST)

== The Chief? ==

What about the chief? Should someone add something for him? Cavil... who was later revealed to be a Cylon, said that he hadn't seen him at any of the cylon parties, the same thing six said about doral. Plus, he kept on wondering why Tyrol couldn't see what was "right in front of his face". And he said "I'm not a Cylon", just like Boomer did in the season 1 finale. It might at least be a possibility. Finally, Cally's pregnancy might be an attempt at creating something similar to Helo/Boomer's child, but with the gender reversed... to see if a Cylon could impregnate a human female. Indeed, that was my intital thought when I accidentally stumbled across pictures of Cally pregnant.

Nah, Tyrol can't be a Cylon. That doesn't fit the Cylon M.O. of trying to make a baby. Remember that Tyrol was with Sharon before, and that they were planing to "Muster out at the end of their service," and get married and have kids, ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). --[[User:FIDS|FIDS]] 12:07, 12 March 2006 (CST)

if the chief were a Cylon, Three wouldn't have been as worried about Galactica-Sharon in "Downloaded." She would have just shown her another Tyrol copy. It's essentially the same reason Baltar can't be a Cylon: they may try to hide it from the humans, but why hide it from other Cylons? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:27, 12 March 2006 (EST)

:I don't believe Tyrol to be a Cylon, but (A) Two sleeper agents '''would''' plan on mustering out and getting married, not knowing the attack was coming, and (B) What good would showing her another Tyrol do? He wouldn't be Tyrol. If anything it would make things worse for Sharon.
:Can we come up with some better disqualifing facts?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:47, 23 March 2006 (EST)
::Cylons have demonstrated great interest in procreation with humans, and absolutely none with other Cylons. It fits with what we know of the Cylon plan for Sharon to want to seduce a human. If Tyrol were a Cylon, it would force us to violate Occam's razor on this count. Also, like the suggestion that Baltar might be a Cylon, this demands that one of the twelve models existance has been ekpt secret from the Cylons on Caprica, which seems silly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:39, 23 March 2006 (CST)
::You guys are forgetting that the 7 Cylon models we know as of now, are the significant seven, and they have no clue on who the final five Cylon models are. ([[User:Cloud02|Cloud02]] 13:40, 2 June 2006 (CDT))
:::A) we're not sure about that info quite yet B ) I think there are limits to it. I mean, I think what Grace meant was "the Cylon on New Caprica have been programmed to not know who the other 5 are so they don't give it away involuntarily to the humans", but logically the ones on CAPRICA would not have any such restriction (they didn't run into the same 7 Cylons there). That's why I'm not really basing anything on her comments, until we get more info later. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:47, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

==Analysis==

I think it would be good if we formated this with a case for and case against section, that is, like in the Adama sections, have the first section say "this is why we initially suspected him", but then say at the end "this other event (i.e. Cylons amongst themselves referring to a character as human)", makes it impossible for this character to be a Cylon.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:45, 4 April 2006 (CDT)

: Makes sense to me... --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) 22:46, 4 April 2006 (CDT)

==Baltar as Cylon Zero==

I'm sorry, but this part of it all is just too much, using questionable "facts" to prove a more questionable theory. It just doesn't make sense to add it, since there isn't even any Cylon Zero mentioned --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 12:37 19 April 2006

:After reading this, I find a few tenuous snippets of intriguing possibility on the original premise. The bulk of the section that tries to support the premise, however, is pure speculation, which I will cull, as well as retitling the section more germanely. I believe I can add or reinforce the central thought. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:58, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::Rewritten. I believe the concepts are more digestable, do not rehash existing points (the page is getting long, anyway), and points to the new crux of what the heck ARE the virtual Six and Baltar and how in the heck does Baltar seem to work "God's" work in those season 1 episodes. That's something I'm sure will haunt him (and the other characters) later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:34, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Not a single piece of it was acceptable, I am sorry, but we cannot coddle this. I have removed it entirely. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:59, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::::I agree. Sorry, Spence. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:11, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::::Not a problem: was trying to salvage rather than obliterate an addition. I had that first reaction myself. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::Thank you Peter: sometimes I worry that I act hastily, but often we get new users who jump on and say their own pet theories, and as an encyclopedia we cannot tolerate hundreds of people's pet theories, just prevailing ones: i.e. I disagree with "could Baltar be one of the 12 Cylon models?" but enough people on messageboards suggest it that I felt it had merit to stay (as speculation) here, and then to note as the series wore on that it has been (by and large) disproven by the evidence. But that guy saying "hmm, those nukes must have been detonated by suicide bombers" when you SEE basestars in orbit nuking the planet, is sillyness. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:16, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::If it were up to me, I'd completely eliminate Ellen, Lee, Bill and Gaius from that list. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:06, 19 April 2006
:::::::No. It helps people to show who couldn't be a Cylon, so they won't add it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:35, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::::Could we just lay out the (very conclusive) evidence against their being cylons, and dispense with any further discussion on the topic? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:43, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::Maybe. But then, would we have EVER thought we'd see Starbuck give Tigh a HUG? Anything is possible with RDM and especially in light of the end of Season 2. If anything, keeping the speculation and its conclusions there there prevents someone from putting it back with rehashed items. We should note the high unlikelihood as per the article's purpose in each section. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 20 April 2006 (CDT)

==Restructuring==
I'm revising this article. I'm spent a lot of time sifting through messageboard speculation, and I'm going to list other characters: again, we shouldn't just list "people who might be Cylons", but for other people, such as say, Adama, who ''have'' "reason" to be suspected of being a Cylon, to help out readers trying to figure out who's a Cylon we should list how sucha person might be suspected of being a Cylon, but also, that this possibility has been disproven. I'm putting little bolded tags onto the bottom of each one, summarizing the actual chance such a person has of being a Cylon after reading the entire article: that is, summary of the William Adama article: "'''Possibility of being a Cylon: None'''". Meanwhile, the "point" of the entire Ellen Tigh article could be summed up as "well she could conceivably be a Cylon and is a shifty character but could also not be and RDM isn't pushing it too hard", so "'''Possibility of being a Cylon: Moderate"'''. If you want to change someone's odds of being a Cylon, just do so and if there's any arguement over the particulars of it, we can debate the merits on this Discussion page. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:37, 30 May 2006 (CDT)
:Just to elaborate: so many times on messageboards I see people saying "well maybe Anders is a Cylon", or "maybe Roslin's a Cylon", that I really want to just list here "Roslin: can't be a Cylon because...etc"; just round out the full regular cast, plus anyone who's non-Cylonness has been confirmed. Just a guide to help people.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:03, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

:: That doesn't sound unreasonable. I also like the idea of a little summary tag for each person so that, if you only wanted to read (dis)proofs, you could skip the ones that have any change besides "none". I'm interested to see how this turns out. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 22:51, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

:: I've been reading this page as you do it. Make sure you cite the Episode. I already marked something under Dullea because I never seen or saw something that provved she acually married Lee Adama. {{tl|citation needed}}. Also I like to point out that your doing the same thing as the message boards, just listing character. At this point, you can list every character at this point and say they are a potiential Cylon. Maybe add something to the {{tl|Character Data}} template with their "cylon" chances if they do exist, but because there is ltitle "citation" it should not appear on this page. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:25, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

== Chief and Cally + Company ==

We already establish from LDYB II that these three can not be Cylons. Why were they added? In this discussion (above) it proves this point. Reason to put Cain? She's been around for 20 years and already has a history from being an Admiral? This makes no sence to be placed on this page. Tom? Need I say more. "''Due to being such a publicly known figure for so Tory Foster, Cheif, Helena Cain, Tom Zarek, Kara Thrace, and Cally and decades before the Cylon Attack, Zarek could not be a Cylon.''" Kara Thrace? Please... alot of these should be removed.

For reason I should this is the list that should be removed (and update this list if you think it should be removed also. '''This is not a Keep list.'''):

*Laura Roslin
*Tory Foster
*Cheif
*Helena Cain
*Tom Zarek
*Kara Thrace
*Cally
*Helo (Only has one entry? Why is it here?)

--[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:36, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

A) I did this in a hurry, and I'm not done B) because I'm leaving for a convention in NYC Ron Moore and the cast are going to C)I want the people DEFINATELY DISPROVEN to be on the list as well, or at least a shorter subheader going "these people can't be CYlons, here's why" so people can see that they have been disproven (meanwhile, people like, Captain Kelly we know so little about that we don't suspect them, nor has their innocence been proven, or like Kat). ****Battlestar Galactica Magazine did a similar "who is the main cast is a Cylon?" list but it was based on their BEHAVIOR, which as we all know can be implanted, so I wanted to do a fuller list, which explains how these people can't be Cylons. **I'll get to work on this later. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 06:13, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:Creating a page to proove to RDM and cast is not a reason to expand this page Merv. Maybe these should be put in a new page called [[Human speculation]]. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 06:29, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

::I do not understand what you just said: I didn't "create" a page this thing has been here for like a year: as I already said, I listed the other people in order to list the reasons that dispel why some fan reading our site might think they're a Cylon, because the magazine had an article which (wrongly, I felt) kind of included them in the speculation. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 07:25, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
:::Then where is the citation. I have to say, in most case you say you now where eerything is coming from, but forget to cite where this was posted. If this is the case, there should be a footnoote for everyone of the ones that came from the magazine, page number and all. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 07:28, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
::::He's not quoting the article in this case (correct me if I'm wrong), but using it as precedent for the type of article. Also, the minute we yank a "Cylon candidate" (no matter how unlikely) somebody will come along and add them back because they believe that they might be a Cylon. Having concise, cited, definitive arguments against their being Cylons is good inoculation against a larger, speculative theory about the possibility of them being Cylons. This article has served as an excellent "containment area" to house some of the more "message board style" argument and speculation, and it has come a long way towards being well cited since its original inception. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:46, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:::::I concur with SV. We should leave ALL entries placed here, but we can concise the entries that are highly unlikely of being an agent to its root reason, and leave arguments for characters with stronger suspicions for later detail. We need to be mindful of this article's size. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:13, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:::::: Are there any points, specifically, Shane that you see needing citation (besides the rather tangental note about whether Apollo and Dee are married now)? If so, please note them here... Maybe some of us happen to know where the information came from off the top of our head. Maybe not, but then, at least, we could all be in on this, rather than you vaguely requesting more citations from Merv, who, as he mentioned, will be out of town for a while soon. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 00:07, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

Hey, I'm back for an hour or two: I think this turned out well with the stuff you guys touched up. Yeah, I did this in a hurry and need to put in citations and stuff (the APollo+Dualla citation is on the Dualla and Apollo bio pages, but I'll add it in plus other stuff as needed). I'll be tinkering with this....--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:26, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

== The Doctor ==

Im surprised to see that no one has suggested him. He knows almost everything there is to know about the insides of the fleet, and he knows about the cylon baby. ([[User:Cloud02|Cloud02]] 13:54, 2 June 2006 (CDT))
:You could if you want but we have to list the why's and whatfor's. I think he's never done anything overtly suspicious, and thus falls into the same category as like, Captain Kelly and 3 dozen other named characters on the show like Racetrack; we know so little about them that there is no specific reason to suspect them. I only listed the main cast and some of the bigger recurring characters just because they're the most frequent names.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:22, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

::Actually, someone did suggest it (I say "suggest", he vehemently insisted) Cottle for a Cylon on the Doc's talk page. The general opinion of those in the discussion was that every viable argument for Cottle (doesn't complain about treating a Cylon, is sympathetic to said Cylon, and opposed separating Hera from her mother) more likely stems from him being a doctor than being an agent. --[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 16:21, 4 June 2006 (CDT)

== Cleanup Required ==

This article is the wiki's largest, at over 45Kb, which might break on some browsers. At the same time, it's one of our most active "unexplained mysteries" page and I don't want any content removed (especially given our heated and fun pro-con arguments to date). Still, this page needs to be broken down to subarticles. Perhaps the Gaius Baltar section should be made into a subarticle to start, which should greatly help in page size (it should not be deleted; sorry Merv--other newbies need to see the progression of the logic, even with the new information, to avoid redundant information). If anyone else has suggestions, pipe in. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:47, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

:I never finished updating this page, it's been a work in progress for a week: I'll get to this tonight. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 10:50, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

== Zak Adama? ==

Has anyone thought of Zak Adama as a possible Cylon model? I know he was William Adama's son, and William probably was there when he was born, but it is something to think about. Maybe Zak could come back as a model... When Leoben told Roslin that "Adama was a Cylon", it was obvious that he was lying. But he does mix truth with lies. Lee and William are about 99.99% NOT cylons. But maybe they somehow did something with Zak... I think in the new BSG comic there is something about Zak in there, but I'm not sure how canon that is, and also the fact that the comic hasn't ended yet, so we don't know the whole story. --[[User:Scoke Faofa|Scoke Faofa]] 13:15, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Humanoid Cylon speculation/Archive4

2006-06-29T18:14:56Z

Scoke Faofa: Zak Adama?

== Please aid in concision ==

This article combines the speculations of the Humano-Cylon and Gaius Baltar articles. As such, it is very wordy. I added the conditional summaries to avoid having to say "Ron Moore said this-and-that" in each item. Still, the article is really all over the place. We need to pare each suspect to the basics--bullets if necessary. Please base your information only on what has been mentioned or clearly stated. Lack of evidence ("Nothing says that the Cylons couldn't have been introduced 5 years before the attacks") is invalid to the information actually stated for both Valerii's and Six character--their history is unclear 2 years prior. Concision should clear up the unnecessary editorial here and bring it to basics. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:46, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:Agreed, it should have been edited down for the sake of concision, as other points are made elsewhere. Thank you for editing it down to size. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:48, 1 February 2006 (EST)

=="At least" 2 years==

No Cylon ever said out loud, "we've been infiltrating your society for two years"; we saw that Number Six was going out with baltar for 2 years, and then that Galactica-Boomer had been on Galactica for 2 years, then made the connection. However, although ''wide-scale'' infiltration apparently occured 2 years ago, we have no way of knowing if this is when infiltration of any kind actually began. Case in point; Ellen Tigh. A (deleted) scene said that she was married to Saul Tigh for 7 years. Now, I think it would be highly unlikely that the Cylons developed the humanoid Cylons 10 years after the Cylon War (30 years ago) or something, but the possibility that they were using them for the past 5-10 years seems within the realm of possibility to me. Again, there was never a definative "rule". --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:48, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:I tend to agree. Although circumstantial evidence points to a widespread infiltration campaign launching two years before the miniseries, we have no idea when the Cylons actually developed the ability to construct humanoid models. This, however, should be noted once at the head of the article, not on a per-candidate basis. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:10, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::The circumstantial evidence is all we can go on to keep from making stuff up out of the range of given information. It was Baltar, talking to Six, that gave the length of time, but I can't recall Valerii's comment or reference to it. Yes, we do need to avoid repetition; there's a lot of it. I don't believe this article is intending to address or imply that the humanoid Cylons were created 2 years prior, but begin to appear 2 years prior. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:49, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:::But that's really the point (not "when were they made"); when were they ''first'' used to infiltrate the Colonies? We really don't know; we only know that two units were inside for 2 years. BTW, it's in "The Farm" when Adama states that Boomer was on the ship for almost 2 years. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:35, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::::Katee Sackhoff mentioned in an interview that Starbuck had known Boomer for 7 years. That would mean 2 years on Galactica and 5 years of training before that, which makes sense as realisitically not even the Cylons could sneak an agent into the military without any training period. It's much harder than creating a civilian ID, and probably the reason why Boomer had to be a sleeper agent. --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:54, 2 March 2006 (EST)
:::::This could have just been subject to change. --00:43, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Billy's Entry ==
There is nothing of note in Billy's entry that could not be also said about Dualla, Tyrol, Cally, Racetrack, Kat, and other minor characters. It's unlikely that we can vouch for all character histories. It's their signficant, influential moments in an episode that appear questionable in intent, or their associations that are important. If there isn't a significant point about Billy's history that puts him at the same level of suspicion as Jammer or Bell, I move to strike this. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:06, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:Well, A) It's always the guy you least suspect, though that's more "paranoia" B) no one knows him, I mean even deckahands like Cally or Jammer were on the ship for at least a period of a few months, but *no one* other than Roslin met him before he first shows up on screen. And it would make sense to infiltrate a position with access to a cabinet member. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:37, 1 February 2006 (EST)
::Not disagreeing, but note that she was an extremely low-ranking cabinet member, and I doubt that the Cylons could have forseen either her "access" to Adar, or her assumption of the presidency after the attack. Besides, they already had Doral following her to Galactica's decommissioning ceremony. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 1 February 2006 (EST)

Given that Billy is now dead, his plausibility as a Cylon is completely moot ''unless'' he is found resurrected in a future episode (non-flashback). Only a Cylon agent comes back, which would validate the claim. Also, given that there hasn't been any further points that significantly differentiate his character's suspicion criteria over any other lesser character, I'd rather strike this. Farago's point that Roslin was accompanied by Doral indicates that ''Galactica'' was monitored anyway. There's no real logic leap that can give the Keikeya suspicion enough grounding in comparison to the others. Technically, Roslin herself could be a Cylon with the same logic in that we don't know for sure where she's been in the last two years beyond what's said in the miniseries and "Ephiphanies." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:58, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:If Billy was a cylon, what would his purpose have been? I can't see TPTB deciding to reveal him as a cylon in a future episode because it wouldn't make any sense! He would have had to be a sleeper agent, but he didn't do anything! For almost 9 months! When you're asleep that long, you're practically dead. It should be struck (striked?) --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 16:59, 25 February 2006 (EST)
::He could have been the person who meet Six, before he boarded the plane and meet Roslin? Everyday I keep going over this, so I just had to get it out there now. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 01:30, 26 March 2006 (CST)

:Part of the point of the Speculation page is that we're bringing up people who have been speculated as Cylons, and then we can actually ''disprove'' the posibility that they are Cylons; we do this, so that when visitors look at the list they can see why someone has been disproven or is still suspect; for example, we still keep Apollo's entry up even though there's frankly a snowball's chance on the sun that he is a Cylon. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:59, 26 March 2006 (CST)

== Apollo's Entry ==

Is it permissible to post a link to fanfiction? --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]]

: Permissible, possibly. But will it be helpful at all? The Lee-Is-A-Cylon thing is, as I understand it, perpetuated almost entirely by fanfiction. Except that a decent sized group of BSG (RDM) fans like this idea, we'd have thrown Lee off the list a long time ago because we can attest to the fact that he has a father. Linking the fiction would, I think, make it easy for a casual reading to misconstrue a case for Lee's being a Cylon as anything more than ver, very weak. Also... for ease of reading, please try to remember to sign your posts. Easy mistake to make. Just keep it in mind. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:46, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:Under ''no'' circumstances is it permissible; didn't the section on Apollo make the point that BattlestarWiki does not support such things? Honestly; 20 people make a Apollo-as-Cylon fanfic, then post links to it ''endlessly'' on the poorly-moderated official messageboards. This matter should be dropped. I am sorry, but on this matter there is no question. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:45, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Baltar's Entry ==

Can we rule out Baltar as a Cylon now that we've seen "Downloaded"? The whole thing with Six seeing BALTAR in her head seem to imply a certain duality... Six's Baltar is trying to push the human agenda, and Baltar's Six is trying to push the Cylon agenda.--[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 23:54, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes, please. If Baltar were a Cylon, they couldn't have ''not'' mentioned it in "Downloaded". The whole line of inquiriy is ridiculous. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:00, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::Plus, numerous Cylon characters referred to him as human. I'm glad. I think it's a lot less interesting if he were a Cylon. I feel a bit reluctant to remove the whole thing though... I'll just add some information against it from Downloaded, and if anyone else feels it needs to go, they're welcome to delete it. --[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 00:02, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::My inclination is to give the "Baltar is a Cylon" boosters a couple days to defend the material here before we chop it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:05, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::By all means, I feel that we should give them a few days to defend themselves. However, although Six hallucinates Baltar...it is clearly implied that no other Cylons knew about him, and Number Three even says that they both fell in love with humans.
My feelings on the matter, summed up into an easy to read list, are:
:*Baltar-Six is definately NOT the same person as the Number Six we see at the beginning of the Miniseries: Caprica-Six is someone else entirely. Did she load *a separate, backup copy* of herself into Baltar? Still a possibility.
:*Baltar-Six is not a hallucination, this has been proven in "Home, Part II", but no chip is visible on scans: I believe that she is an "Organic Chip", undetectable to scans, and not an "angel" as she claims.
:*Caprica-Six's hallucinated visions of Baltar on the other hand, are simply that: hallucinations, brought on by the apparent stress of killing the man she loved
:*As an inhuman robot not used to emotions or love, this had a profound affect on her; even disregarding Baltar, she is also feeling profound guilt over killing the human race, because after loving Baltar, she's come to think that a loving God would never want what the Cylons did.
:So he's not a Cylon; it's just a cool way of visually showing us that Number Six and the Cylons are so near-human that when placed under moral strain or something, they can hallucinate just like people can. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:50, 25 February 2006 (EST)

*I will go out on a limb, and propose that this is in fact conclusive proof that Baltar is not a Cylon, because the Cylons amongst themselves say that he is a human. I had been waiting until (my pet theory) Baltar impregnants Gina, but now I feel that this is grounds, '''Spencerian''', to remind you of our [[Talk:Gaius Baltar#A Friendly Wager, Spencerian|Gentlemanly wager]], that if Baltar were proved not to be a Cylon, you would support me in an Administrator election. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:53, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::Not only is the notion staking an RFA vote on a petty wager rather more than a little disquieting, I'm not even sure Spence ever agreed to those terms. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:12, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::Given that it was a back and forth conversation, to which he gave no refusal in reply, at the time at least, this gave the impression of tacit admission of the terms. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:45, 25 February 2006 (EST)

The wager is not changed, but you came very close to losing it in "Downloaded." Nor, however, has any proof been revealed in this episode that negates the possibility of Baltar as a Cylon. In fact, since ''only'' Baltar and Six have appeared as virtual beings, this actually ''reinforces,'' not diminishes the possibility since, to this episode, only a Cylon image has appeared this way. Since ''both'' Baltar and Six appear as virtual beings to each other, AND this phenomena is obviously not known or planned for by the Cylons, this doesn't change the nature of what Baltar is or is not (or, by extension, Six). The results from "Downloaded" DO invalidate some of the postulations in the Gaius-the-Cylon speculation, which I will note when I can. When humans and Cylons are in love, things get weird. Note that this hasn't happened with Boomer and Tyrol, but maybe, maybe, their love was not complete enough to create this strange exchange of "love echo." Oh, and for two beings to have the ''exact'' kind of "hallucination" suggests that it is not an hallucination at all. Something else is going on. Peter's point on Baltar's lack of note by other Cylons, however, does have a point, of which I will chew on before commenting further. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:But if Baltar was a Cylon, than why was Six-Baltar pushing for the "human agenda" and talking about how bad it was that millions of humans were killed? --[[User:Mojorising1985|mojorisng1985]] 18:04, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::It was her impression of Baltar (whom she thinks is human). (I think this whole line of speculation is absolutely ludicrous, by the way; but that question really doesn't change anything.) --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:21, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::Indeed, this is absolutely nuts. From an in-continuity perspective, the only way Baltar could ''possibly'' be a Cylon as of this episode would be if neither Caprica-Six, Galactica-Valerii, or Caprica-Three knew about it. Caprica-Three appeared to be very high-ranking - she apparently has the authority to have other cylons "boxed", and she knew that Baltar was still alive - something that was not public knowlege. From a dramatic perspective, it's completely impossible, and would invalidate the last two seasons worth of character development. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:51, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:"We're two heroes of the cylon, right? Two heroes with different perspectives on the war. Perspectives based by our love of two human beings". Cylons, talking amongst themselves, refer to Baltar as a human being in the episode "Downloaded". This alone is quite a good piece of evidence. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:46, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::OK, the damage done to Baltar's speculation is nearly complete, but I do not fully concede. I've clarified the information from "Downloaded" but added one important matter: Since the virtual Six and Baltar are not a Cylon creation, where in the world do they come from, and why doesn't Tyrol have a virtual Boomer? Until more information comes out, its my last shot in this salvo that still leaves a thread of doubt. We'll need to condense Baltar's entry later since many concepts there appear invalidated or contradictory to aired content. Oh, and just because the two Cylons believed they were in love with two humans doesn't make it patently true. What did Baltar think ''he'' was shagging before Six's revelation? The writers twist and turn, and I don't believe we're done with this, but yep, my ship is sinking, although not sunk, and I'm still armed with name-calling, a claim that you smell of elderberries, and flatulence in your general direction. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:34, 3 March 2006 (CST)

:In Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II when Baltar has sex with Gina, does that disprove once him being a cylon. I would think that anyone who would have doubts after Downloaded would have to accept the fact that Baltar's spine did not turn red and therefore he can't be a cylon. Ronald D. Moore himself said in the commentary in the mini-series that the Humano-Cylon spines all turn red. Shouldn't we take him off of the speculated Humano-Cylon agent list?--Zareck Rocks 16:45, 12 March 2006 (CST)

== Additional Qualifier for Speculation? ==

"According to Ron D. Moore, the twelve humanoid models are based on human behavior and personality archetypes distilled into twelve varieties."

It would seem, then, that any new Cylon agents will also need to have reasonably archetypal personalities that are notably different from known agents.
--[[User:Mckooper|Mckooper]] 14:24, 6 March 2006 (CST)
:Very true. Good thinking. Personally I find Billy to be too much like Doral.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:31, 6 March (EST)

:: This is my main arguement against Ellen Tigh being a Cylon. She's the same, archetypally, as Six, basically: The attractive, sexually agressive blonde. I'm waiting for model, let's say, Number 12: The Nerd. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:30, 7 March 2006 (CST)

== Lay Down Your Burdens ==

Wouldn't the Season Finale exonerate Ellen, the Adamas and Gaeta? There were dozens of Centurions marching through that city. Surely if Ellen were a Cylon, she would have simply joined in the parade as a matter of pride? The Adamas wouldn't have jumped away of either of them were Cylons. And if Gaeta were a Cylon, wouldn't he have simply dropped the charade when he told Baltar they had arrived? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 11:59, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:Even in German-occupied France in World War II, the Gestapo still had spies pretending to be French to try to infiltrate any resistance. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:07, 11 March 2006 (CST)
::Yes, and we have no particular reason to believe that conquering New Caprica is the end goal for the Cylons; this may only be a push to guide them in a different direction, in which the hidden agents still have a role to play. That said, I do wonder what new human models we'll see on New Caprica. My guess is that at least one will be of the same type as someone in Adama's fleet. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 13:11, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:They may be sleeper agents anyway, and their programming didn't tell them to "wake up"[[User:Mrxerox|MrXerox]] 1:38 19 March 2006 (CST)

== The Chief? ==

What about the chief? Should someone add something for him? Cavil... who was later revealed to be a Cylon, said that he hadn't seen him at any of the cylon parties, the same thing six said about doral. Plus, he kept on wondering why Tyrol couldn't see what was "right in front of his face". And he said "I'm not a Cylon", just like Boomer did in the season 1 finale. It might at least be a possibility. Finally, Cally's pregnancy might be an attempt at creating something similar to Helo/Boomer's child, but with the gender reversed... to see if a Cylon could impregnate a human female. Indeed, that was my intital thought when I accidentally stumbled across pictures of Cally pregnant.

Nah, Tyrol can't be a Cylon. That doesn't fit the Cylon M.O. of trying to make a baby. Remember that Tyrol was with Sharon before, and that they were planing to "Muster out at the end of their service," and get married and have kids, ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). --[[User:FIDS|FIDS]] 12:07, 12 March 2006 (CST)

if the chief were a Cylon, Three wouldn't have been as worried about Galactica-Sharon in "Downloaded." She would have just shown her another Tyrol copy. It's essentially the same reason Baltar can't be a Cylon: they may try to hide it from the humans, but why hide it from other Cylons? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:27, 12 March 2006 (EST)

:I don't believe Tyrol to be a Cylon, but (A) Two sleeper agents '''would''' plan on mustering out and getting married, not knowing the attack was coming, and (B) What good would showing her another Tyrol do? He wouldn't be Tyrol. If anything it would make things worse for Sharon.
:Can we come up with some better disqualifing facts?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:47, 23 March 2006 (EST)
::Cylons have demonstrated great interest in procreation with humans, and absolutely none with other Cylons. It fits with what we know of the Cylon plan for Sharon to want to seduce a human. If Tyrol were a Cylon, it would force us to violate Occam's razor on this count. Also, like the suggestion that Baltar might be a Cylon, this demands that one of the twelve models existance has been ekpt secret from the Cylons on Caprica, which seems silly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:39, 23 March 2006 (CST)
::You guys are forgetting that the 7 Cylon models we know as of now, are the significant seven, and they have no clue on who the final five Cylon models are. ([[User:Cloud02|Cloud02]] 13:40, 2 June 2006 (CDT))
:::A) we're not sure about that info quite yet B ) I think there are limits to it. I mean, I think what Grace meant was "the Cylon on New Caprica have been programmed to not know who the other 5 are so they don't give it away involuntarily to the humans", but logically the ones on CAPRICA would not have any such restriction (they didn't run into the same 7 Cylons there). That's why I'm not really basing anything on her comments, until we get more info later. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:47, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

==Analysis==

I think it would be good if we formated this with a case for and case against section, that is, like in the Adama sections, have the first section say "this is why we initially suspected him", but then say at the end "this other event (i.e. Cylons amongst themselves referring to a character as human)", makes it impossible for this character to be a Cylon.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:45, 4 April 2006 (CDT)

: Makes sense to me... --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) 22:46, 4 April 2006 (CDT)

==Baltar as Cylon Zero==

I'm sorry, but this part of it all is just too much, using questionable "facts" to prove a more questionable theory. It just doesn't make sense to add it, since there isn't even any Cylon Zero mentioned --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 12:37 19 April 2006

:After reading this, I find a few tenuous snippets of intriguing possibility on the original premise. The bulk of the section that tries to support the premise, however, is pure speculation, which I will cull, as well as retitling the section more germanely. I believe I can add or reinforce the central thought. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:58, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::Rewritten. I believe the concepts are more digestable, do not rehash existing points (the page is getting long, anyway), and points to the new crux of what the heck ARE the virtual Six and Baltar and how in the heck does Baltar seem to work "God's" work in those season 1 episodes. That's something I'm sure will haunt him (and the other characters) later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:34, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Not a single piece of it was acceptable, I am sorry, but we cannot coddle this. I have removed it entirely. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:59, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::::I agree. Sorry, Spence. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:11, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::::Not a problem: was trying to salvage rather than obliterate an addition. I had that first reaction myself. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::Thank you Peter: sometimes I worry that I act hastily, but often we get new users who jump on and say their own pet theories, and as an encyclopedia we cannot tolerate hundreds of people's pet theories, just prevailing ones: i.e. I disagree with "could Baltar be one of the 12 Cylon models?" but enough people on messageboards suggest it that I felt it had merit to stay (as speculation) here, and then to note as the series wore on that it has been (by and large) disproven by the evidence. But that guy saying "hmm, those nukes must have been detonated by suicide bombers" when you SEE basestars in orbit nuking the planet, is sillyness. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:16, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::If it were up to me, I'd completely eliminate Ellen, Lee, Bill and Gaius from that list. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:06, 19 April 2006
:::::::No. It helps people to show who couldn't be a Cylon, so they won't add it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:35, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::::Could we just lay out the (very conclusive) evidence against their being cylons, and dispense with any further discussion on the topic? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:43, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::Maybe. But then, would we have EVER thought we'd see Starbuck give Tigh a HUG? Anything is possible with RDM and especially in light of the end of Season 2. If anything, keeping the speculation and its conclusions there there prevents someone from putting it back with rehashed items. We should note the high unlikelihood as per the article's purpose in each section. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 20 April 2006 (CDT)

==Restructuring==
I'm revising this article. I'm spent a lot of time sifting through messageboard speculation, and I'm going to list other characters: again, we shouldn't just list "people who might be Cylons", but for other people, such as say, Adama, who ''have'' "reason" to be suspected of being a Cylon, to help out readers trying to figure out who's a Cylon we should list how sucha person might be suspected of being a Cylon, but also, that this possibility has been disproven. I'm putting little bolded tags onto the bottom of each one, summarizing the actual chance such a person has of being a Cylon after reading the entire article: that is, summary of the William Adama article: "'''Possibility of being a Cylon: None'''". Meanwhile, the "point" of the entire Ellen Tigh article could be summed up as "well she could conceivably be a Cylon and is a shifty character but could also not be and RDM isn't pushing it too hard", so "'''Possibility of being a Cylon: Moderate"'''. If you want to change someone's odds of being a Cylon, just do so and if there's any arguement over the particulars of it, we can debate the merits on this Discussion page. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:37, 30 May 2006 (CDT)
:Just to elaborate: so many times on messageboards I see people saying "well maybe Anders is a Cylon", or "maybe Roslin's a Cylon", that I really want to just list here "Roslin: can't be a Cylon because...etc"; just round out the full regular cast, plus anyone who's non-Cylonness has been confirmed. Just a guide to help people.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:03, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

:: That doesn't sound unreasonable. I also like the idea of a little summary tag for each person so that, if you only wanted to read (dis)proofs, you could skip the ones that have any change besides "none". I'm interested to see how this turns out. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 22:51, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

:: I've been reading this page as you do it. Make sure you cite the Episode. I already marked something under Dullea because I never seen or saw something that provved she acually married Lee Adama. {{tl|citation needed}}. Also I like to point out that your doing the same thing as the message boards, just listing character. At this point, you can list every character at this point and say they are a potiential Cylon. Maybe add something to the {{tl|Character Data}} template with their "cylon" chances if they do exist, but because there is ltitle "citation" it should not appear on this page. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:25, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

== Chief and Cally + Company ==

We already establish from LDYB II that these three can not be Cylons. Why were they added? In this discussion (above) it proves this point. Reason to put Cain? She's been around for 20 years and already has a history from being an Admiral? This makes no sence to be placed on this page. Tom? Need I say more. "''Due to being such a publicly known figure for so Tory Foster, Cheif, Helena Cain, Tom Zarek, Kara Thrace, and Cally and decades before the Cylon Attack, Zarek could not be a Cylon.''" Kara Thrace? Please... alot of these should be removed.

For reason I should this is the list that should be removed (and update this list if you think it should be removed also. '''This is not a Keep list.'''):

*Laura Roslin
*Tory Foster
*Cheif
*Helena Cain
*Tom Zarek
*Kara Thrace
*Cally
*Helo (Only has one entry? Why is it here?)

--[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:36, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

A) I did this in a hurry, and I'm not done B) because I'm leaving for a convention in NYC Ron Moore and the cast are going to C)I want the people DEFINATELY DISPROVEN to be on the list as well, or at least a shorter subheader going "these people can't be CYlons, here's why" so people can see that they have been disproven (meanwhile, people like, Captain Kelly we know so little about that we don't suspect them, nor has their innocence been proven, or like Kat). ****Battlestar Galactica Magazine did a similar "who is the main cast is a Cylon?" list but it was based on their BEHAVIOR, which as we all know can be implanted, so I wanted to do a fuller list, which explains how these people can't be Cylons. **I'll get to work on this later. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 06:13, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:Creating a page to proove to RDM and cast is not a reason to expand this page Merv. Maybe these should be put in a new page called [[Human speculation]]. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 06:29, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

::I do not understand what you just said: I didn't "create" a page this thing has been here for like a year: as I already said, I listed the other people in order to list the reasons that dispel why some fan reading our site might think they're a Cylon, because the magazine had an article which (wrongly, I felt) kind of included them in the speculation. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 07:25, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
:::Then where is the citation. I have to say, in most case you say you now where eerything is coming from, but forget to cite where this was posted. If this is the case, there should be a footnoote for everyone of the ones that came from the magazine, page number and all. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 07:28, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
::::He's not quoting the article in this case (correct me if I'm wrong), but using it as precedent for the type of article. Also, the minute we yank a "Cylon candidate" (no matter how unlikely) somebody will come along and add them back because they believe that they might be a Cylon. Having concise, cited, definitive arguments against their being Cylons is good inoculation against a larger, speculative theory about the possibility of them being Cylons. This article has served as an excellent "containment area" to house some of the more "message board style" argument and speculation, and it has come a long way towards being well cited since its original inception. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:46, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:::::I concur with SV. We should leave ALL entries placed here, but we can concise the entries that are highly unlikely of being an agent to its root reason, and leave arguments for characters with stronger suspicions for later detail. We need to be mindful of this article's size. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:13, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:::::: Are there any points, specifically, Shane that you see needing citation (besides the rather tangental note about whether Apollo and Dee are married now)? If so, please note them here... Maybe some of us happen to know where the information came from off the top of our head. Maybe not, but then, at least, we could all be in on this, rather than you vaguely requesting more citations from Merv, who, as he mentioned, will be out of town for a while soon. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 00:07, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

Hey, I'm back for an hour or two: I think this turned out well with the stuff you guys touched up. Yeah, I did this in a hurry and need to put in citations and stuff (the APollo+Dualla citation is on the Dualla and Apollo bio pages, but I'll add it in plus other stuff as needed). I'll be tinkering with this....--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:26, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

== The Doctor ==

Im surprised to see that no one has suggested him. He knows almost everything there is to know about the insides of the fleet, and he knows about the cylon baby. ([[User:Cloud02|Cloud02]] 13:54, 2 June 2006 (CDT))
:You could if you want but we have to list the why's and whatfor's. I think he's never done anything overtly suspicious, and thus falls into the same category as like, Captain Kelly and 3 dozen other named characters on the show like Racetrack; we know so little about them that there is no specific reason to suspect them. I only listed the main cast and some of the bigger recurring characters just because they're the most frequent names.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:22, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

::Actually, someone did suggest it (I say "suggest", he vehemently insisted) Cottle for a Cylon on the Doc's talk page. The general opinion of those in the discussion was that every viable argument for Cottle (doesn't complain about treating a Cylon, is sympathetic to said Cylon, and opposed separating Hera from her mother) more likely stems from him being a doctor than being an agent. --[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 16:21, 4 June 2006 (CDT)

== Cleanup Required ==

This article is the wiki's largest, at over 45Kb, which might break on some browsers. At the same time, it's one of our most active "unexplained mysteries" page and I don't want any content removed (especially given our heated and fun pro-con arguments to date). Still, this page needs to be broken down to subarticles. Perhaps the Gaius Baltar section should be made into a subarticle to start, which should greatly help in page size (it should not be deleted; sorry Merv--other newbies need to see the progression of the logic, even with the new information, to avoid redundant information). If anyone else has suggestions, pipe in. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:47, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

:I never finished updating this page, it's been a work in progress for a week: I'll get to this tonight. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 10:50, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

== Zak Adama? ==

Has anyone thought of Zak Adama as a possible Cylon model? I know he was William Adama's son, and William probably was there when he was born, but it is something to think about. Maybe Zak could come back as a model... When Leoben told Roslin that "Adama was a Cylon", it was obvious that he was lying. But he does mix truth with lies. Lee and William are about 99.99% NOT cylons. But maybe they somehow did something with Zak... I think in the new BSG comic there is something about Zak in there, but I'm not sure how canon that is, and also the fact that the comic hasn't ended yet, so we don't know the whole story.

List of all episodes

2006-06-29T17:51:14Z

Scoke Faofa: /* Season 3 (2006-07) */

== Overview ==

The following are the listings of all known episodes of [[Battlestar Galactica]]. Click on one to see (and possibly edit) the guide for that episode.

== [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Battlestar Galactica (Classic)]] ==

* [[Season 1 (1978-79)]]
**1.01 [[Saga of a Star World (TOS)|Saga of a Star World]] (3 hours)
**1.02 [[Lost Planet of the Gods, Part I (TOS)|Lost Planet of the Gods, Part I]]
**1.03 [[Lost Planet of the Gods, Part II (TOS)|Lost Planet of the Gods, Part II]]
**1.04 [[The Lost Warrior (TOS)|The Lost Warrior]]
**1.05 [[The Long Patrol (TOS)|The Long Patrol]]
**1.06 [[The Gun on Ice Planet Zero, Part I (TOS)|The Gun on Ice Planet Zero, Part I]]
**1.07 [[The Gun on Ice Planet Zero, Part II (TOS)|The Gun on Ice Planet Zero, Part II]]
**1.08 [[The Magnificent Warriors (TOS)|The Magnificent Warriors]]
**1.09 [[The Young Lords (TOS)|The Young Lords]]
**1.10 [[The Living Legend, Part I (TOS)|The Living Legend, Part I]]
**1.11 [[The Living Legend, Part II (TOS)|The Living Legend, Part II]]
**1.12 [[Fire in Space (TOS)|Fire in Space]]
**1.13 [[War of the Gods, Part I (TOS)|War of the Gods, Part I]]
**1.14 [[War of the Gods, Part II (TOS)|War of the Gods, Part II]]
**1.15 [[The Man with Nine Lives (TOS)|The Man with Nine Lives]]
**1.16 [[Murder on the Rising Star (TOS)|Murder on the Rising Star]]
**1.17 [[Greetings from Earth (TOS)|Greetings from Earth]] (2 hours)
**1.18 [[Baltar's Escape (TOS)|Baltar's Escape]]
**1.19 [[Experiment in Terra (TOS)|Experiment in Terra]]
**1.20 [[Take the Celestra (TOS)|Take the Celestra]]
**1.21 [[The Hand of God (TOS)|The Hand of God]]

== [[Galactica 1980]] ==
*Season 1 (1980)
**1.01 [[Galactica Discovers Earth, Part I]]
**1.02 [[Galactica Discovers Earth, Part II]]
**1.03 [[Galactica Discovers Earth, Part III]]
**1.04 [[The Super Scouts, Part I]]
**1.05 [[The Super Scouts, Part II]]
**1.06 [[Spaceball]]
**1.07 [[The Night the Cylons Landed, Part I]]
**1.08 [[The Night the Cylons Landed, Part II]]
**1.09 [[Space Croppers]]
**1.10 [[The Return of Starbuck]]

== [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica ("re-imagining")]] ==
:''A complete listing along with summary's can be found on the [[Portal:Battlestar Galactica (RDM)/Episode Guide|Battlestar Galactica Episode Guide]] Portal.''
===[[Miniseries]] (2003)===

===[[Season 1 (2004-05)]]===
*1.01 [[33]]
*1.02 [[Water]]
*1.03 [[Bastille Day]]
*1.04 [[Act of Contrition]]
*1.05 [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
*1.06 [[Litmus]]
*1.07 [[Six Degrees of Separation]]
*1.08 [[Flesh and Bone]]
*1.09 [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]
*1.10 [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
*1.11 [[Colonial Day]]
*1.12 [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
*1.13 [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]

===[[Season 2 (2005-06)]]===
*2.01 [[Scattered]]
*2.02 [[Valley of Darkness]]
*2.03 [[Fragged]]
*2.04 [[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]
*2.05 [[The Farm]]
*2.06 [[Home, Part I]]
*2.07 [[Home, Part II]]
*2.08 [[Final Cut]]
*2.09 [[Flight of the Phoenix]]
*2.10 [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
*2.11 [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
*2.12 [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
*2.13 [[Epiphanies]]
*2.14 [[Black Market]]
*2.15 [[Scar]]
*2.16 [[Sacrifice]]
*2.17 [[The Captain's Hand]]
*2.18 [[Downloaded]]
*2.19 [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]
*2.20 [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]

===[[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]===
(A web-based series bridging seasons 2 and 3)

===[[Season 3 (2006-07)]]===
*3.1 [[Occupation]]

== TV Documentaries / Specials ==

*[[Sciography: Battlestar Galactica]]
*[[Battlestar Galactica: The Lowdown (Miniseries)]]
*[[Battlestar Galactica: The Lowdown (Season 1)]]
*[[Sci Fi Inside: Battlestar Galactica]] (Season 2.5)

== How To Create or Edit a Guide ==

Each guide is essentially in the same format as those from the [http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5].

Should you need to start a guide for an episode, do the following:

# Either click on the red link or type the episode name into the search box. Please make sure the spelling is correct.
# Click "Go".
# If you are directed to the search page, click on "create the article".
# On the edit page, enter: '''<nowiki>{{subst:Episode Guide}}</nowiki>'''
# Save the page.
# Re-edit to add or remove information as needed.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (TOS)|*]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (1980)|*]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|*]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|*]]
[[Category:Lists]]

List of all episodes

2006-06-29T17:50:40Z

Scoke Faofa: /* Season 3 (2006-07) */

== Overview ==

The following are the listings of all known episodes of [[Battlestar Galactica]]. Click on one to see (and possibly edit) the guide for that episode.

== [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Battlestar Galactica (Classic)]] ==

* [[Season 1 (1978-79)]]
**1.01 [[Saga of a Star World (TOS)|Saga of a Star World]] (3 hours)
**1.02 [[Lost Planet of the Gods, Part I (TOS)|Lost Planet of the Gods, Part I]]
**1.03 [[Lost Planet of the Gods, Part II (TOS)|Lost Planet of the Gods, Part II]]
**1.04 [[The Lost Warrior (TOS)|The Lost Warrior]]
**1.05 [[The Long Patrol (TOS)|The Long Patrol]]
**1.06 [[The Gun on Ice Planet Zero, Part I (TOS)|The Gun on Ice Planet Zero, Part I]]
**1.07 [[The Gun on Ice Planet Zero, Part II (TOS)|The Gun on Ice Planet Zero, Part II]]
**1.08 [[The Magnificent Warriors (TOS)|The Magnificent Warriors]]
**1.09 [[The Young Lords (TOS)|The Young Lords]]
**1.10 [[The Living Legend, Part I (TOS)|The Living Legend, Part I]]
**1.11 [[The Living Legend, Part II (TOS)|The Living Legend, Part II]]
**1.12 [[Fire in Space (TOS)|Fire in Space]]
**1.13 [[War of the Gods, Part I (TOS)|War of the Gods, Part I]]
**1.14 [[War of the Gods, Part II (TOS)|War of the Gods, Part II]]
**1.15 [[The Man with Nine Lives (TOS)|The Man with Nine Lives]]
**1.16 [[Murder on the Rising Star (TOS)|Murder on the Rising Star]]
**1.17 [[Greetings from Earth (TOS)|Greetings from Earth]] (2 hours)
**1.18 [[Baltar's Escape (TOS)|Baltar's Escape]]
**1.19 [[Experiment in Terra (TOS)|Experiment in Terra]]
**1.20 [[Take the Celestra (TOS)|Take the Celestra]]
**1.21 [[The Hand of God (TOS)|The Hand of God]]

== [[Galactica 1980]] ==
*Season 1 (1980)
**1.01 [[Galactica Discovers Earth, Part I]]
**1.02 [[Galactica Discovers Earth, Part II]]
**1.03 [[Galactica Discovers Earth, Part III]]
**1.04 [[The Super Scouts, Part I]]
**1.05 [[The Super Scouts, Part II]]
**1.06 [[Spaceball]]
**1.07 [[The Night the Cylons Landed, Part I]]
**1.08 [[The Night the Cylons Landed, Part II]]
**1.09 [[Space Croppers]]
**1.10 [[The Return of Starbuck]]

== [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica ("re-imagining")]] ==
:''A complete listing along with summary's can be found on the [[Portal:Battlestar Galactica (RDM)/Episode Guide|Battlestar Galactica Episode Guide]] Portal.''
===[[Miniseries]] (2003)===

===[[Season 1 (2004-05)]]===
*1.01 [[33]]
*1.02 [[Water]]
*1.03 [[Bastille Day]]
*1.04 [[Act of Contrition]]
*1.05 [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
*1.06 [[Litmus]]
*1.07 [[Six Degrees of Separation]]
*1.08 [[Flesh and Bone]]
*1.09 [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]
*1.10 [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
*1.11 [[Colonial Day]]
*1.12 [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
*1.13 [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]

===[[Season 2 (2005-06)]]===
*2.01 [[Scattered]]
*2.02 [[Valley of Darkness]]
*2.03 [[Fragged]]
*2.04 [[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]
*2.05 [[The Farm]]
*2.06 [[Home, Part I]]
*2.07 [[Home, Part II]]
*2.08 [[Final Cut]]
*2.09 [[Flight of the Phoenix]]
*2.10 [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
*2.11 [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
*2.12 [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
*2.13 [[Epiphanies]]
*2.14 [[Black Market]]
*2.15 [[Scar]]
*2.16 [[Sacrifice]]
*2.17 [[The Captain's Hand]]
*2.18 [[Downloaded]]
*2.19 [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]
*2.20 [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]

===[[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]===
(A web-based series bridging seasons 2 and 3)

===[[Season 3 (2006-07)]]===
*[[Occupation]]

== TV Documentaries / Specials ==

*[[Sciography: Battlestar Galactica]]
*[[Battlestar Galactica: The Lowdown (Miniseries)]]
*[[Battlestar Galactica: The Lowdown (Season 1)]]
*[[Sci Fi Inside: Battlestar Galactica]] (Season 2.5)

== How To Create or Edit a Guide ==

Each guide is essentially in the same format as those from the [http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5].

Should you need to start a guide for an episode, do the following:

# Either click on the red link or type the episode name into the search box. Please make sure the spelling is correct.
# Click "Go".
# If you are directed to the search page, click on "create the article".
# On the edit page, enter: '''<nowiki>{{subst:Episode Guide}}</nowiki>'''
# Save the page.
# Re-edit to add or remove information as needed.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (TOS)|*]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (1980)|*]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|*]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|*]]
[[Category:Lists]]

User:Scoke Faofa

2006-06-29T17:43:45Z

Scoke Faofa:

{| class="toccolours" style="float:left;
|-
!colspan=2 style="text-align:center; font-size: larger; background-color: #CC3333; color: #000000" | Scoke Faofa
|-
|'''Location''' || [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peters%2C_MO], [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Fallon%2C_MO]
|-
|'''Gender''' || Male
|-
|'''Birthdate''' || 10/15/86
|-
|'''Favorite BSG Episodes''' || [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/The_Hand_of_God_%28RDM%29 The Hand of God], [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Pegasus_%28episode%29 Pegasus], [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Resurrection_Ship%2C_Part_I Resurrection Ship Part I], [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Resurrection_Ship%2C_Part_II Resurrection Ship Part II], [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/33 33]
|-
|'''Favorite Characters''' || [[William Adama]], [[Cally]], [[Lee Adama]], [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Kara Thrace]], [[Helena Cain]], [[Gaius Baltar]]
|-
|'''[http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Galactica_%28RDM%29 Battlestar Galactica] or [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Pegasus_%28RDM%29 Battlestar Pegasus]''' || [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Galactica_%28RDM%29 Battlestar Galactica]
|-
|'''[http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Viper_Mark_II Viper] or [Raptor]''' || [[Viper]]
|-
|'''[[Cylon]] Fighter or Collaborator''' || Fighter
|--[[User:Scoke Faofa|Scoke Faofa]] 12:35, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

User:Scoke Faofa

2006-06-29T17:35:10Z

Scoke Faofa:

Occupation

2006-06-29T17:20:29Z

Scoke Faofa:

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data|
| Image = [[Image:Universal logo.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Occupation
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 3 (2006-07)|3]]
| Episode= 3.1
| Guests= [[Amanda Plummer]]
| Writer= TBA
| Story=
| Director= [[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= October, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= ?
| Prev= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]
| Next= [[Episode 3.4]]}}

== Overview ==
In an [http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/artsentertainment/2002957630_galactica28.html?syndication=rss interview] with the Seattle Times, Ron Moore has confirmed that the first episode of season three will not take place immediately after the previous season finale (like "[[Scattered]]" did), but skip ahead a few more months to when the Cylon occupation is in full swing, and an insurgency has already developed.

According to an [http://media20a.libsyn.com/m3efeMh2bXXEfWl7l3dtpmemYHLH/podcasts/podcast411/411_060531.mp3 interview] with [[Ron Moore]] from May 31st, [[Wikipedia:Amanda Plummer|Amanda Plummer]] will guest star in the season 3 premiere.

== Summary ==
The Colonials survive on New Caprica under Cylon rule, with some collaborating and others fighting back. D'Anna discovers that the hybrid child has survived.

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

=== From RDM's blog ===

== Guest Stars ==

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]

Occupation

2006-06-29T17:18:53Z

Scoke Faofa:

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data|
| Image = [[Image:Universal logo.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Occupation
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 3 (2006-07)|3]]
| Episode= 3.1
| Guests= TBA
| Writer= TBA
| Story=
| Director= [[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= October, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= ?
| Prev= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]
| Next= [[Episode 3.4]]}}

== Overview ==
In an [http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/artsentertainment/2002957630_galactica28.html?syndication=rss interview] with the Seattle Times, Ron Moore has confirmed that the first episode of season three will not take place immediately after the previous season finale (like "[[Scattered]]" did), but skip ahead a few more months to when the Cylon occupation is in full swing, and an insurgency has already developed.

According to an [http://media20a.libsyn.com/m3efeMh2bXXEfWl7l3dtpmemYHLH/podcasts/podcast411/411_060531.mp3 interview] with [[Ron Moore]] from May 31st, [[Wikipedia:Amanda Plummer|Amanda Plummer]] will guest star in the season 3 premiere.

== Summary ==
The Colonials survive on New Caprica under Cylon rule, with some collaborating and others fighting back. D'Anna discovers that the hybrid child has survived.

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

=== From RDM's blog ===

== Guest Stars ==

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]

Talk:Unfinished Business/Archive 1

2006-06-29T03:59:26Z

Scoke Faofa:

Talk:Unfinished Business/Archive 1

2006-06-29T03:58:48Z

Scoke Faofa:

According to [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/s3/index.shtml Gateworld], Episode 3.5 is called Torn, not Unfinished Business, as stated here. Should this article be changed?
--[[User:Scoke Faofa|Scoke Faofa]] 22:57, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Unfinished Business/Archive 1

2006-06-29T03:57:23Z

Scoke Faofa:

According to [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/news/2006/05/episodefouriscollaborators.shtml Gateworld], Episode 3.4 is called Collaborators, not Unfinished Business, as stated here. Should this article be changed?
--[[User:Scoke Faofa|Scoke Faofa]] 22:57, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II

2006-06-29T03:50:08Z

Scoke Faofa:

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Baltarlaydownburdensii.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 20
| Guests= [[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]] [[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]] [[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
| Writer=[[Anne Cofell Saunders]] [[Mark Verheiden]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=
| Rating=1.9
| US Airdate= March 10, 2006
| UK Airdate= May 16, 2006
| DVD=
| Population= 49,550
| Prev= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]
| Next= [[Occupation]]
}}

== Overview ==

:''Everything turns on its head as the survivors vote for a new president -- and vote for their fate.''

== Summary ==

===On Caprica===

*[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]], the [[marines]], and the [[Caprica Resistance]] continue to take fire from [[Cylon Centurion]]s and their artillery. They make their way up a hill, and hold their position.
*The Cylons hold fire, and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] remarks that the Cylons will attempt to capture them with non-lethal weapons, such as gas.
*Eighteen hours later, they emerge to find that the Cylons have disappeared. [[Cavil]] -- who suddenly appears behind them -- announces that the Cylons have left the Twelve Colonies and that humanity is spared.

===In the Fleet===

*[[Cally]] is cleared for duty by [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]], despite having her jaw wired shut. [[Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] visits her, apologizing for the attack. Cally forgives him, saying that she's always cared for him.

*[[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]] continues to gain in the polls. On ''[[Colonial One]]'', [[Tory_Foster|Tory]] mentions an alternative victory plan. [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] later calls a private meeting with Dr. Baltar, asking to deliver a joint statement of [[Wikipedia:Table (verb)|tabling]] the issue of colonization until after the election. Baltar rejects the idea.

*Roslin, fearing that she has indeed lost the presidential race, confronts [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on whether he was with a copy of [[Number Six]] on Caprica before the Cylon attack. Baltar avoids answering the question and states that he may have [[Epiphanies|saved her life]], but he will not save her political life.

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] returns to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' with the resistance fighters, much to the delight of Admiral [[William Adama]]. She mentions the Cylon retreat from Caprica as Brother Cavil, leaving the Raptor, confirms it. He also says he has a message, but is attacked by Chief [[Galen Tyrol]], who declares a "[[Code blue]]," claiming Cavil is a Cylon. Incensed that Caprica-Valerii did not reveal Cavil's true nature earlier, Admiral Adama orders both Caprica-Valerii and the second Cavil to the brig.

*The ''Galactica''-based Cavil (from last episode) is brought to the brig, claiming he's not a Cylon, but changes his tune upon seeing his "brother", as he calls him. Caprica-Cavil then talks about the fact that the “war heroes” ([[Caprica Six]] & [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|"Boomer" Valerii]]) have convinced their kind that the attack of the colonies and the pursuit of the fleet were mistakes. Caprica-Cavil's mission was to relay the message that man and Cylon will go their separate ways. Both Roslin and Admiral Adama are less than trusting regarding the message.

*In the brig, Caprica-Valerii is completely disillusioned and nihilistic, declaring that since her [[Hera|child's]] death, nothing -- not Adama's trust or [[Helo]]'s -- matters to her. A frustrated Helo insists that he's not giving up on her, but she seems disinclined to listen.

*Thrace and [[Anders]] are getting extremely drunk when Apollo comes in to welcome them back. Starbuck makes a snide remark about Apollo and Dualla and goes back to drunkenly making out with Anders. Apollo, clearly upset with Starbuck, leaves without saying much.

*Election Day has arrived and Baltar has an apparent five thousand-vote lead over Roslin with only a few ships left to tally. On ''Colonial One'', Foster activates her alternative victory plan with a call to ''Galactica.''

*Amazingly, Roslin initially appears to have retained the presidency. While most are celebrating, Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] discovers fraudulent actions in the vote, and informs the Admiral that Col. Tigh (who acts suspiciously when questioned by Gaeta) may be involved in a conspiracy to throw the election.

*Admiral Adama confronts Roslin regarding the conspiracy, saying that Tigh has confessed to rigging the vote. Roslin admits her involvement and Adama is disappointed. The Admiral indicates that, for good or bad, the people's vote must take precedence. Adama secretly buries the conspiracy itself while announcing the startling change in events to Dr. Baltar.

*Initially Baltar vows to have a full investigation on the vote count, but after Adama suggests that Baltar take his victory and leave matters be, Baltar relents and informs Adama that he can be quite generous in victory. President-elect Baltar then orders a course for “[[New Caprica]].”

*Baltar and Gina consummate their relationship after Gina informs Baltar that she would not be part of the colonization.

*[[Gaius Baltar]] is sworn in as the new President of the Twelve Colonies, and orders the immediate colonization of New Caprica.

*Gina activates the nuclear warhead [[Sacrifice|given to her by Baltar]] aboard ''[[Cloud 9]]''. The nuclear blast destroys ''Cloud 9'' and at least three other ships. Admiral Adama warns that this may be a Cylon attack, but President Baltar ignores him and presses forward with colonization.

===One Year Later===
[[image:burdens2.jpg|Thrace and Cottle on New Caprica.|thumb]]
*President Baltar's administration appears to be corrupt, lax, and unresponsive. [[Felix Gaeta|Mr. Gaeta]], now the President's aide, reports issues with a worker's union. Baltar is upset, saying there have been no Cylon attacks but the people still complain. He has regressed, turning to alcohol, medication, and womanizing.

*Admiral Adama, now sporting a mustache, is walking around the near-empty ''Galactica'', which is quickly falling into disrepair. Over half of the crew have moved down onto the planet, leaving the ship so short on crew that they barely have enough pilots to fly training missions, much less form up [[Combat Air Patrol]]s. Adama asks Tigh to retire from duty to join his [[Ellen Tigh|wife]] on the planet. Tigh reluctantly agrees.

*[[Samuel Anders|Anders]], now Thrace's husband, has pneumonia. Dr. Cottle is unable to treat Anders because there are no antibiotics available. He can only advise Thrace to make sure Anders gets enough rest in order to recover.

*Thrace runs into the Tighs as [[Tyrol]], now a union boss, is making a speech to begin a strike, with a very pregnant Cally by his side. Col. Tigh mentions to Thrace that ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' keeps a store of backup medical supplies and that Commander [[Lee Adama]] might spring some for her. Thrace disagrees, which prompts Tigh to state that Lee Adama should be over her harsh neglect of Adama's friendship after Ander's arrival a year before.

*Roslin returns to her teaching roots, teaching the settlement's children, and manages to find enjoyment in her new position. [[Maya]] is with her, as is the now one year-old "[[Hera|Isis]]".

*Thrace calls Commander Lee Adama aboard ''Pegasus'' to request the antibiotics. [[Dualla]], ostensibly the ''Pegasus'' [[XO]], notices something on [[DRADIS]], to her horror.

*A massive fleet of [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s arrive in orbit around New Caprica. The Adamas discuss what to do in response, with Lee initially advocating that the remains of the orbiting Fleet to [[FTL|escape]]. Admiral Adama initially resists, but orders the Jump, vowing that they will return.

*A [[Leoben Conoy]]-model [[Cylon agent]] shows up at Thrace and Anders' tent, where he asks an ailing Anders about where to find Thrace.

*Mr. Gaeta informs the President of the Cylon approach. Later, before his assembled staff, copies of Numbers [[Number Five|5]], [[Number Eight|8]], and [[Number Six|6]] approach the President. The Cylons declare that as long as there’s no resistance, no harm will come. President Baltar, after learning that the Cylons discovered New Caprica because of the nuclear explosion set off by Gina, declares surrender on behalf of the colonists. As Cylon armies occupy the planet, Thrace vows to resist.

== Questions ==

*Who is Baltar's vice president?

*Is Gaeta Baltar's assistant or his Vice President?
:Based on Ron Moore's comment (see the spoiler text), it is probable that Gaeta is merely an assistant.

*What of [[Tom Zarek]]?

{{spoiltext|According to RDM's blog, Tom Zarek was initially the Vice President but he had a falling out with Baltar over the regime.}}

*Has Gaeta's view of Baltar changed since Baltar's ascension to the presidency? If so, is Gaeta planning to do anything about it?

*Was Roslin's threat to put the two Cavils into space actually carried out?

*Where did the remains of the Fleet escape to?

*Where is Caprica-Valerii?

*Why is Leoben looking for Starbuck, specifically?
{{spoiltext|According to some Q&A that RDM gave at a recent convention to people from the website 'The Pegasus Galaxy', Starbuck's missing ovary has been "under Leoben's pillow". Could the Cylons have made a hybrid child from her eggs and Leoben's sperm?
Also, there is the possibility that this particular Conoy is the ressurection of the model that Thrace tortured in "[[Flesh and Bone]]," and he is seeking payback.}}

*Why has the population (until Tyrol's recent union speech) accepted Baltar's imperious rule? People were hardly so passive under Roslin. Indeed, Adama executed a military coup over a rather less important issue than giving a nuclear weapon to a Cylon agent.

*What were the workers being asked to do which was so "odious", "so sick[ening] at heart" that Tyrol was willing to call a general strike, and so important to Baltar that he was willing to use illegal imprisonment to break it?

*Are the Six and Eight that Baltar surrendered to [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]]? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Where did the Cylon fleets go, after they left the Twelve Colonies? Cavil was deliberately vague when asked if they simply returned to the [[Cylon homeworld]].

*Why didn't the nuclear device trigger the radiological alarms on either Battlestar?

*How many people died in ''Cloud 9'' destruction? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Were the Quorum of Twelve killed on ''Cloud 9''?

*Was anyone from [[Demand Peace]] killed on ''Cloud 9''?

*Were [[Shevon]] and [[Paya]] killed on ''Cloud 9''?

*When Gina was instantly vaporized due to being only two feet from a nuclear detonation, did she still transmit her consciousness? Was she even capable of transmitting considering that any internal hardware responsible for this task would have been instantly destroyed? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Given Roslin's memories of Baltar with Six, why didn't Admiral Adama suspect Baltar of handing over the nuclear warhead to the cylons? If he did suspect him, why not act on it? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Did Baltar's internal Six disappear at any point during the New Caprica year? If so, when and why? If so, did the events of her disappearance contribute to Baltar's regression?

*Why was it so easy for Adama to hide the collusion of the rigged election from the press, and why were there no consequences?

*If the Cylons really left the Twelve Colonies, leaving behind a nuked-out wasteland, what happened to all of the human captives in the [[Farms]]?

*Why have the Cylons returned after suggesting that they were willing to go their "separate ways"?

*Did the Cavils lie about the pursuit of humanity being a mistake? Or were they telling the truth?

*Will the Cylons resume their pursuit of the Fleet?

*How many people are left in the Fleet? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Have the remaining ships in the defense fleet been armed during the past year?

*Will the Adamas resort to Cain's tactic of conscripting civilians to fill the gaps?

*What happened between Apollo and Starbuck? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*What led to Starbuck's reconciliation with Col. Tigh? The two had been in conflict since the [[Miniseries]], what led them to bury the hatchet and become the close friends they now appear to be?

*Has it become public knowledge that Baltar killed [[Crashdown]] on [[Kobol]]? Now that Chief and Cally are Baltar's open adversaries they could attempt to use this information against him.

*When Adama informs Baltar that the nuke used to blow up ''[[Cloud 9]]'' was probably stolen form Gaius' lab, why is he not suspicious about the fact that Baltar never reported that it was missing? Had it really been stolen from his lab, he would surely notice.
**One could argue that a man doesn't have much time to spot missing objects when he's running for President.

*Are the Cylons that appear at the end representative of the whole Cylon race, or are they a faction that broke off after the two "Cylon Heroes" began to speak out against the war on the humans?

*If it is true that the Cylons now believe the attack on humanity was a mistake, is the occupation on New Caprica viewed by the Cylons as an act of mercy and kindness vs. oppression from the human perspective? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Could it be the intent of the Cylons to actually help the colonization of New Caprica, helping with the construction of infrastructure, new homes, etc, in order to make up for the holocaust? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])
**If the Cylons intend to help, that would be consistent with Cavil's comment that the Cylon path to enlightenment is to be "the best machines the universe has ever seen." The purpose of a machine is arguably to assist human beings. On the other hand, the Cylons, if they are here to help, are presumably intending to do so in a highly authoritarian fashion.
***Could the Cylons be wanting to maintain control over the colonials so that in some future the colonials would not be able to return and exact revenge on the Cylons?
**Could the Cylons be fortifying New Caprica to protect the humans from hostile Cylons? There should still be some, that Number Three in "Downloaded" was pretty fanatical, and if the political winds have changed as they so often do...
***Is there a Cylon civil "cold" war?
****Could the occupation of New Caprica be a compromise between pro-human and anti-human factions, with war breaking out between them after it fails?

== Analysis ==
*According to Ron Moore's podcast, the events of "One Year Later" are real and were meant to solidify to the audience that the show is taking a path that cannot be reversed. In order to make the colonization of New Caprica real, Moore felt that the show would need to jump ahead in a span of year to show that indeed Baltar has followed through with his political promise.

*The events of the Cylon invasion of New Caprica parallel the Nazi invasion of France, with the fleet's escape a parallel to the Allied evacuation of Dunkirk and Baltar's surrender a parallel to Petain's surrender. If the parallel continues, Baltar will establish a puppet regime under Cylon rule akin to Vichy France while Colonials still loyal to humanity will establish a resistance movement. Ron Moore has actually said in the podcast for this episode that it is inspired by Vichy France.

*Baltar's arrogance seems to have led to corrupt rule during his year on New Caprica; he replaces Roslin's modest desk with a more elaborate one, replaces the population count whiteboard with a portrait of himself, and keeps a harem aboard the grounded ''Colonial One''.

*After a year, everyone still lives in tents. Shortages of medicine abound, the military is of no use, and labor conditions are apparently intolerable. Baltar's administration is apparently as incompetent as Roslin feared.
**It is not clear whether these conditions are the result of admimistrative incompetence or the inherent difficulties of colonizing a marginally habitable planet.
***Of course, it was Baltar's idea to settle on a marginally habitable planet in the first place.

*It's ironic that the obligations of duty keep Lee Adama aboard ''Pegasus'' while everyone else goes planetside. He is a reserve officer, and promised to build his pilots a bar as soon as they found a habitable planet.
**It's possible the bar ''was'' built.

*In the podcast for "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" Moore commented on how everyone assumed that ''Pegasus'' would be destroyed by the end of the episode, and thus he thought it would be a good twist to keep ''Pegasus'' alive as another ship in the Fleet. Speculators mistakely assumed that the nuke that Baltar gave to Gina in "[[Epiphanies]]" would be used to destroy ''Pegasus'' (keeping in tune with the destruction of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series']] ''[[Pegasus (TOS)|Pegasus'']].

*Twenty-nine people died between this episode and the preceding one? One or two Raptors were lost, and some Marines died on Caprica, but that doesn't seem high enough.
**It's possible they took out all of the people who left in the raptors because they were not apart of the fleet at the end of the previous episode?
***Starbuck remained in the count during her time on Caprica at the beginning of Season 2. When she and Helo returned to the fleet in "[[Home, Part I]]," the count only rose by one.
**Perhaps more people died during the attack on Caprica than was shown.
***Yet another possibility is the inclusion of the Caprica survivors in the count to offset many of the losses that had incurred in the rescue mission.
***Although they didn't actually talk about the losses, there was a shot of a wounded person being taken away on a stretcher after the Raptors returned from the [[Caprica]] [[SAR]] mission.
***There may have been a series of election-related riots or murders.

*The year gap for the Cylons to find the fleet at first seems odd. However, it was stated in the previous episode that the interference from the gas cloud surrounding it would hide the planet fairly well. The Cylons were slightly over a light year away, according to the Number Five at the surrenderring. Searching something as large as the gas cloud likely is for a planet or fleet is, given the sensor range limitations, quite impressive to accomplish in months, even with general directional information from a light-year out. In addition, the radiation from the nuclear explosion aboard ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' would, of course, only be traveling at the speed of light. Even a less catastrophic attempt to communicate the Colonial's new location would be limited to the speed of light. Of course, once the location was pinpointed, an FTL Jump by the Cylons to pounce would be instantaneous.
**Even though the Cylons were able to find New Caprica from the detected nuclear blast that occurred a year prior, the initial detection would have only pointed them in the right general direction. The planet would have moved from the location the inital blast occurred as it orbits around its sun. So the Cylons would only have been able to pinpoint the planet's last location a year prior. They could have used astronomical surveying to detect the planet or send their fleets to other positions using FTL ahead of the blast radiation to triangulate the nuclear blast. Then send recon elements to scout for the planet, which could have been the initial blips picked up by DRADIS by Lt. Dualla of recon Raiders. As soon as the planet was found the main Cylon Fleet would jump in from their staging areas.
***It is also clear that Gina truly did die in the nuclear explosion on ''Cloud 9'' as she would have been able to inform the Cylons of the whereabouts of the Fleet. This indicates that no new Resurrection Ship had been constructed and that Gina's suicidal thoughts finally prevailed. This may explain why she was willing to consummate her relationship with Baltar as it would be the last time she could be with him.
****If a transmission of Gina's consciousness is also bound by the speed of light, then the signal would radiate at the same speed as the radiation from the explosion. So the Cylons could have captured the signal at the same time they discover the radiation. A new resurrection ship could be in place by this time. So the [[#questions|above question]] of whether she was able to transmit when the hardware responsible for this was destroyed is still valid.
*****To contrast, as evidenced by "Downloaded", Cylon transmissions occur at a higher speed as Boomer's consciousness was able to be transmitted to the Resurrection Ship, and then transmitted to Caprica almost immediately after her death on ''Galactica.'' It also must be pointed out that ''Galactica'''s Fleet is well into deep space, light-years away from the Colonies. The time for Boomer's transmission to reach Caprica in "Downloaded" would have taken years if not hundreds of years if the speed was limited to the speed of light.

*The population of New Caprica City is given as 39,192. There were just under 50,000 people in the Fleet before establishing the settlement, so that gives a figure of roughly 10,000 missing. It is uncertain how many were killed in the destruction of ''Cloud 9'' and surrounding Fleet ships, but this loss along with any births and deaths that have taken place during the year since the election, leaves very few military personnel in the Orbital Defense. This almost certainly means that both ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' will be extremely short on crew, as many military personnel will have been left on the planet. There was clearly no time to retrieve even selected members of the crews before the Fleet jumped.
**The figure may not necessarily be 10,000 missing, but those who are not part of New Caprica City's population. The figure of 10,000 is spread amongst those remaining up in orbit with the fleet's remaining ships, out in independent, peripheral, or small settlements not part of New Caprica City proper, and casaulties.
**Watching the Fleet jump in slow-motion, you can count approximately 19 ships, which also gives a rough impression of the reduced size of the Fleet. Other ships, including ''Colonial One'' and some Raptors, are landed on New Caprica and have presumably fallen into the hands of the Cylons.
**It is not explicitly said that all members of the New Caprica colony reside in New Caprica City. There may be outlying settlements, though none are named. One reason for this would simply be as a safeguard to keep a single nuclear strike from wiping out all of the fleet survivors.
***Baltar's surrender may demonstrate prudence uncharacteristic of him, or simply be a matter of self-preservation.

**Any "industrial" vessels — such as the mining ships, tanker ships, repair ships, agro-world ship — would have landed on the planet and been debarked, dismantled, or converted to form the foundation for industrial / production efforts. Some of the vessels in the fleet that left [[Ragnar Anchorage]] weren't designed for prolonged interstellar journeys, and were basically running on a hope and a prayer, and would have been rendered promptly upon finding a more permanent home. The nineteen-or-so ships seen are, more than likely, the last spaceworthy vessels in the fleet that are not needed (or capable of landing) planetside.
***After a year, people are still living in tents and using landed ships as buildings, so it doesn't look like much has been dismantled or converted into raw production. Other than the miners, who are apparently extremely unhappy at how things have been run, we see little evidence of industry or production over the year.

*Apparently, Thrace's comments about Lee Adama and Dualla have taken their toll on their relationship. Whether the comments escalulated is unknown, but, from Dualla's expression of annoyance when she hands the receiver to Adama when Thrace calls, it is clear that the three never reconciled with each other.

*The Six and Eight that are part of the Cylon delegation that greets Baltar's cabinet are almost certainly [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|"Boomer" Valerii]]. This is implied from Six's reaction upon seeing Baltar and her intimation that she knew who Baltar was. The two are also wearing the exact same clothes as in "[[Downloaded]]."

*In the Season 3 trailer that followed the end of the episode, Six narrates, saying that humanity has finally surrendered and the war is over. According to Six, the Cylons can finally fulfill their "''true destiny''" and take care of humanity. They desire to show humanity the "''glory of peace''," mercy; like God, their mercy can only be matched by their power and complete control. So apparently, the war heroes have indeed changed the Cylons' prejudices toward humans, but unfortunately this also means that the Cylons believe that the only way to care for humanity is to control it.

**This narrative sounds more like Baltar's internal Six (superior, controlling, zealous) than Caprica-Six (more of a people person).

== Notes ==
* According to Ron Moore's podcast, although the Sci-Fi Channel was willing to air this episode as a 90-minute special, it had to be heavily edited down for international distribution; outside of the United States, viewers will only see a 1 hour version of the episode, which Moore regards as "almost incomprehensible". Many plot threads, such as the entire Cally/Tyrol subplot, were completely removed from the one hour version. This may not be the case in the UK however as Skyone (the channel that broadcasts the show in that country) previously showed the full 90 minute version of Stargate SG1 episode 'Threads' and may well do the same for this episode.
**In the UK, Sky One did indeed show the episdoe as a 90 minute special.

*Admiral Adama watches [[Pyramid]] games and was a fan of the [[Picon Panthers]].

*In RDM's podcast for the previous episode, he said that in early drafts of this special 90 minute long episode, the writers actually tried to make it a 2 hour special, but this was soon dropped (these times are including commercials).
*The election board appears to have a definitive list of the names of all of the ships in [[The Fleet (RDM)]]. Not all of them are clearly visible, but this would seem to indicate that the writers do have an actual list that they get new ship names from.

*The framed photo of President Roslin and [[Billy Keikeya]] was still on Roslin's desk during the election.

*When Roslin "won" the rigged election results, Roslin received 24,265 votes, while Baltar recieved 22,266. This means that the elligible voters in the Fleet number at least 46,531. In the podcast, RDM explains that he quickly came up with these numbers, to try to reflect roughly how many survivors are below the voting age.

*Toward the end of the episode, President Baltar refers to a government body called the "People's Council". This may be the proportionally elected lower house mentioned by RDM in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 blog post] on January 30, 2005.

*[[Hera]] is seen on New Caprica in the same white cradle that Baltar had a vision of her being in "[[Scattered]]", etc. According to RDM's podcast it's actually the exact same cradle.

*Tyrol's union speech is an almost word for word quote of Mario Savio's address during the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in 1964. According to Ron Moore and David Eick in the podcast, they even got permission from Savio's widow to use it (even though, due to the way copyright laws work from back then, they could have just used it without permission, they felt they should get it). As a result, it's even listed in the credits: "Mario Savio speech excerpted courtesy of: Lynne Hollander Savio". Actor Aaron Douglas (Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]) actually studied film of Savio, so all of the hand gestures Tyrol makes when he gives the speech are gestures that Savio actually used.

*Baltar's portrait of himself does not have the 'cut corners' as seen in most (all?) other papers and photos in the show.

*[[:Image:Wtfk1tn.jpg|Visible]] on the blackboard of Roslin's school are the French verbs ''aller'', ''avoir'', and ''etre''. The Colonials appear to just speak English, so this might be a goof by the set designers trying to make it look more like a generic school.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*"Well, this is an awkward moment…. Yes, he's right, I'm a Cylon. And I have a message. So…take me to your leader."
*:—The Caprica copy of '''Brother Cavil''' on being uncovered as a Cylon

*"Would you mind telling me what's going on? I'm not a frakking Cylon, I'm not…(''sees the other Cavil in the cell'')…oh. Well, okay then."
*:—The Galactica copy of '''Brother Cavil'''

*''On Caprica:''
::'''Anders:''' You got any great ideas in that military brain of yours?
::'''Starbuck:''' Do the same thing we always do; fight 'em 'till we can't.
:''The Cylons occupy New Caprica:''
::'''Tyrol:''' "What do you want to do now, Captain?"
::'''Starbuck:''' "The same thing we always do. Fight them until we can't."

== Official Statements ==

From the official site (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/):
When Baltar wins the vote, Roslin considers stealing the election because she believes he is a Cylon collaborator.

RDM's blog ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/03/#a000409 March 28, 2006]) gives details. (''Due to article size requirements, the blog entry is not reproduced here.'')

=== Interviews ===

* '''[[Paul Campbell]] discussess his thoughts on the story post-"[[Sacrifice]]":'''

:'''MB/TSFW:''' So what do you think about the story after you left, and the trouble [[Mary McDonnell|Mary]]’s [[Laura Roslin|character]] got herself into? After your [[Tory Foster|replacement]] came in she kind of had a fall there. Do you think that would have happened if you were still there to watch her back?

: '''Paul:''' You know, I don’t know if they could have. [[Billy Keikeya|Billy]] had so much integrity, that under his watch, I don’t think that would have happened. And maybe he would have had to step down, and Mary would have gone about that route with someone else. But I don’t think if he would have been in the picture, that would have gone down. Because that’s some shady crap, and I don’t think it would have cut it. We obviously butted heads on a few things like that in the past. In particular when I ended up leaving her at the ship. As it turned out, I had another pilot to go shoot. As it turned out, it was more my schedule that didn’t work out, but it worked in the writing. But no, I don’t think that would have flown had I been in the picture. So I don’t know what they would have done. I’m sure that was the story line from the beginning, but how they would have worked me into it, I don’t really know. [http://mediablvd.com/magazine/index.php?option=com_magazine&func=show_article&id=84 MediaBlvd]

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as Specialist [[Cally]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Aaron Doral]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[imdb:nm0443286|David Kaye]] as [[James McManus]]
*[[Alisen Down]] as [[Jean Barolay]]
*[[imdb:nm0718759|Winston Rekert]] as Priest

{{episode list (RDM season 2)}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

[[de:Legt eure Bürden nieder, Teil II]]

Collaborators

2006-06-29T03:48:10Z

Scoke Faofa:

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Universal logo.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Collaborators
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 3 (2006-07)|3]]
| Episode= 4
| Guests= TBA
| Writer= TBA
| Story=
| Director= TBA
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= October, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= ?
| Prev= [[Exodus]]
| Next= Unknown, eventually [[Unfinished Business]]}}

== Overview ==

According to an [http://community.tvguide.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700002601 interview] with David Eick, this episode will introduce the Cylon culture aboard a [[basestar]].

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

=== From RDM's blog ===

== Guest Stars ==

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]

Collaborators

2006-06-29T03:47:35Z

Scoke Faofa:

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Universal logo.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Collaborators
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 3 (2006-07)|3]]
| Episode= 4
| Guests= TBA
| Writer= TBA
| Story=
| Director= TBA
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= October, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= ?
| Prev= [[Occupation]]
| Next= Unknown, eventually [[Unfinished Business]]}}

== Overview ==

According to an [http://community.tvguide.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700002601 interview] with David Eick, this episode will introduce the Cylon culture aboard a [[basestar]].

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

=== From RDM's blog ===

== Guest Stars ==

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]

Collaborators

2006-06-29T03:46:39Z

Scoke Faofa:

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Universal logo.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Collaborators
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 3 (2006-07)|3]]
| Episode= 4
| Guests= TBA
| Writer= TBA
| Story=
| Director= TBA
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= October, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= ?
| Prev= Unknown, eventually [[Episode 3.1]]
| Next= Unknown, eventually [[Unfinished Business]]}}

== Overview ==

According to an [http://community.tvguide.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700002601 interview] with David Eick, this episode will introduce the Cylon culture aboard a [[basestar]].

== Summary ==

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

=== From RDM's blog ===

== Guest Stars ==

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]

Occupation

2006-06-29T03:44:49Z

Scoke Faofa:

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data|
| Image = [[Image:Universal logo.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Occupation
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 3 (2006-07)|3]]
| Episode= 1
| Guests= TBA
| Writer= TBA
| Story=
| Director= [[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= October, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= ?
| Prev= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]
| Next= [[Episode 3.4]]}}

== Overview ==
In an [http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/artsentertainment/2002957630_galactica28.html?syndication=rss interview] with the Seattle Times, Ron Moore has confirmed that the first episode of season three will not take place immediately after the previous season finale (like "[[Scattered]]" did), but skip ahead a few more months to when the Cylon occupation is in full swing, and an insurgency has already developed.

According to an [http://media20a.libsyn.com/m3efeMh2bXXEfWl7l3dtpmemYHLH/podcasts/podcast411/411_060531.mp3 interview] with [[Ron Moore]] from May 31st, [[Wikipedia:Amanda Plummer|Amanda Plummer]] will guest star in the season 3 premiere.

== Summary ==
The Colonials survive on New Caprica under Cylon rule, with some collaborating and others fighting back. D'Anna discovers that the hybrid child has survived.

== Questions ==

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

=== From RDM's blog ===

== Guest Stars ==

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]

Soundtrack (Season 2)

2006-06-21T19:42:19Z

Scoke Faofa: /* Track Listing */

{{Album Data|
Image = Bear McCreary Season 2 soundtrack.jpg
| Alt= Cover for the United States and UK release of this soundtrack
| Title= Soundtrack (Season 2)
| Series= Soundtrack
| Albumno= 3
| Composer= [[Bear McCreary]]
| Artist=
| Label= La-La Land Records
| Tracks= 23
| Runtime= 01:18:53
| Discs= 1
| Released= June 20 2006
| Prev= [[Soundtrack (Season 1)]]
| Next= None
}}
: ''For the [[Miniseries]] soundtrack, see [[Soundtrack (Miniseries)]].''
: ''For the soundtrack to Season One, see [[Soundtrack (Season 1)]].''

''Battlestar Galactica'' composer [[Bear McCreary]] gave an interview and previewed six musical cues from Season 2 at [http://www.filmmusicradio.com/index.php?todo=inside&storyid=18 Film Music Radio]. (The Season 2 cues start at 1:06:25.) Note that these cues differ from the actual tracks released in the Season 2 Soundtrack.

==Track Listing==
#'''Colonial Anthem''' (4:02) from "[[Final Cut]]"
#*Contains "Theme from Battlestar Galactica" and "Exploration" by [[Stu Phillips]] and [[Glen A. Larson]]. Adapted and Arranged by Bear McCreary
#'''Baltar's Dream''' (2:45) from "[[Valley of Darkness]]"
#'''Escape''' (3:09) from "[[The Farm]]"
#'''A Promise to Return''' (3:03) from "[[The Farm]]"
#*Dedicated to the Recovery of Ludvig Girdland. Performed by Supernova String Quartet
#'''Allegro''' (4:59) from "[[Home, Part I]]"
#'''Martial Law''' (1:51) from "[[Fragged]]"
#'''Standing in the Mud''' (1:45) from "[[Black Market]]"
#'''Pegasus''' (2:46) from "[[Pegasus]]"
#'''Lords of Kobol''' (2:50) from "[[Pegasus]]"
#*Featuring Raya Yarnbrough, Vocals.
#'''Something Dark is Coming''' (8:51) from "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]"
#'''Scar''' (2:26) from "[[Scar]]"
#'''Epiphanies''' (2:43) from "[[Epiphanies]]"
#'''Roslin and Adama''' (2:49) from "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]" and "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II|Part II]]"
#'''Gina Escapes''' (2:00) from "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]"
#'''Dark Unions''' (2:53) from "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]"
#'''The Cylon Prisoner''' (3:51) from "[[Pegasus]]"
#*Featuring Bt4, Vocals
#'''Prelude to War''' (8:22) from "[[Pegasus]]", "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]", and "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II|Part II]]"
#'''Reuniting the Fleet''' (2:45) from "[[Home, Part I]]" and "[[Home, Part II]]"
#'''Roslin Confesses''' (2:09) from "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]"
#'''One Year Later''' (1:43) from "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]"
#'''Worthy of Survival''' (3:35) from "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]"
#'''Battlestar Galactica''' (0:45) Season 2 Main Title Music
#*Music by [[Richard Gibbs]]. Engineered and Mixed by Gordon Fordyce. Featuring Michael Now and Caitanya Riggan, Vocals
#'''Black Market''' (5:48) from "[[Black Market]]"
#*Featuring Steve Bartek, Guitar

==Full credits==
===Performance Credits===
*'''Ethnic Woodwinds''' - Chris Bleth
*'''Villeann Pipes and Irish Whistles''' - Eric Riger
*'''Acoustic and Electric Violin''' - Paul Cartwright
*'''Acoustic and Electric Guitars''' - Steve Bartek
*'''Electric Bass''' - John Avila
*'''Drum Kit''' - Johnny "Vatos" Hernandez
*'''Percussion''' - M.B. Gordy
*'''Pianos, Percussion and MIDI Programming''' - [[Bear McCreary]]

*'''French Horns''' - Steve Durnan, Daniel Kelly
*'''Trumpets''' - Wayne Bergeron, Larry Hall
*'''Trombones''' - Alex Isles, Steve Holtman
*'''Violin''' - Robert Anderson, Susan Chatman, Charlie Evert, Kirsten Fife, Juliann French, Larry Greenfield, Norm Hughes, Sharon Jackson, Peter Kent, Gina Kronstadt, Songa Lee-Kitto, Cameron Patrick, Vladamir Polimiditi, Kathleen Robertson, Julie Rodgers, Josefina Vergara, Erika Walczak, Francine Walsh, John Wittenberg, Shari Zippert
*'''Viola''' - Miguel Atwood-Ferguson, Biana Bandy, Karen Elane Bucanin, Lynn Grants, Scott Holsfield, Marium Mayer, Maria Newman, David Stenske, Maria Todd, Jessica VanVelzen
*'''Violoncello''' - Peggy Baldwin, Giovanna Clayton, Erika Duke-Kirkpatrick, Vanessa Friebarin-Smith, Missy Hasin, Susie Katayama, Rudi Stein, Jacob Szekely
*'''Contrabass''' - Norman Ludwin, Bart Samolis, Dave Stone

===Supernova String Quartet===
*'''Violin''' - Ludvig Girdland
*'''Violin''' - Robert Anderson
*'''Viola''' - Muguel Atwood-Ferguson
*'''Violoncello''' - Jacob Szekely

===Vocals===
*'''Featured Vocalists''' - Raya Yarbrough, Bt4
*'''Additional Vocalists''' - Amy Keys, Doug Lacy, Johnny "Vatos" Hernandez, Bear McCreary

===Production Credits===
*'''Executive Album Producers for La La Land Records''' - MV Gerhard and Matt Verboys
*'''Album Produced by''' - Bear McCreary, Steve Kaplan and Ford A. Thaxton
*'''Score Produced by''' - Bear McCreary and Steve Kaplan
*'''Score Orchestrated and Conducted by''' - Bear McCreary
*'''Score Orchestrated and Mixed by''' - Steve Kaplan
*'''Music Editor''' - Michael Baber
*'''Assistant Music Editor''' - David Bondelvitch
*'''Digitally Edited and Mastered by''' - James Nelson at ''Digital Outland''
*'''Computer Guru''' - Mark Cooper
*'''Contractors''' - M.B. Gordy and Peter Kent
*'''Representation''' - ''Soundtrack Music Associates''
*'''Score Recorded at''' - Stage M at Paramount Studios and Eastwood Scoring Stage at Warner Bros.
*'''CD Art Direction''' - Mark Banning
*'''Sengalese Consultant''' - Nisha Rodrigo

==Press Release==

: ''Reprinted with permission from CineMedia Productions.''

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

BATTLESTAR GALACTICA: SEASON TWO SOUNDTRACK TO BE RELEASED BY LA-LA LAND RECORDS ON JUNE 20

BATTLESTAR GALACTICA TOUTED AS ONE OF THE TOP 10 SHOWS CURRENTLY ON TV BY TIME MAGAZINE AND TV GUIDE

(June 1, 2006- New York, NY) - Considered one of the top 10 shows currently on TV by ''Time Magazine'', ''Entertainment Weekly'', and ''TV Guide'', ''Battlestar Galactica'' is the #1 show on the Sci Fi Channel. On June 20, La-La Land Records will release the ''Battlestar Galactica: Season Two'' soundtrack, featuring more than 78 minutes of the best musical moments from the 2nd season of the Sci-Fi Channel's critically acclaimed, top-rated television series starring [[Edward James Olmos]], [[Mary McDonnell]], [[James Callis]], [[Tricia Helfer]] and [[Katee Sackhoff]].

Composer Bear McCreary builds on his impressive Season One accomplishments and once again delivers a sensational, emotionally rich score that ingeniously melds orchestra, vocals, percussion and synthesizer. The Season Two CD contains few tracks which are longer in length. Says McCreary, "The first one was a soundtrack. The second one is an album."

The Battlestar Galactica: Season Two soundtrack features performances by Supernova String Quartet (on "A Promise to Return" from [[The Farm]]), vocals by Raya Yarbrough (on "[[Lords of Kobol]]" from [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]), and vocals by Bt4 (on "The [[Gina|Cylon Prisoner]]" from Pegasus). Former Oingo-Boingo members Steve Bartek, John Avila and Johnny "Vatos" Hernandez play on the track from "[[Black Market]]". And the main title theme from ''Battlestar Galactica'', composed by [[Richard Gibbs]], is also on the soundtrack.

Fans of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|original series]] will be excited to see that the theme from the original ''Battlestar Galactica'' series, composed by [[Stu Phillips]], has been adapted and arranged by McCreary. The homage to the television show that inspired this new incarnation leads off the soundtrack.

Composer Bear McCreary is a classically trained composer with a degree in Composition and Recording Arts from the prestigious USC Thornton School of Music. He has composed score for over thirty independent films, including director Jon Chu's musical short ''When the Kids Are Away'' and the Discovery Channel miniseries ''The 5 Coolest Things''. McCreary was among a handful of select protégés of late film music legend Elmer Bernstein (''THE MAGNIFICENT SEVEN'').

The [[Season 3 (2006-07)|third season]] of ''Battlestar Galactica'' will begin airing in October on the Sci Fi Channel. The ''Battlestar Galactica: Season Two'' soundtrack will be available in stores or from [http://www.lalalandrecords.com www.lalalandrecords.com] on June 20, 2006. The soundtrack from the [[Soundtrack (Miniseries)|Battlestar Galactica miniseries]] and the [[Soundtrack (Season 1)|Season One soundtrack]] are both available from La-La Land Records.

==External Links==
*[http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/tracks/B000FCUYKO/ref=dp_tracks_all_1/104-3855845-2158354?%5Fencoding=UTF8#disc_1 Amazon.com] page for BSG Season 2 soundtrack.
*[http://www.lalalandrecords.com/Battlestar_Galactica_Season_2.html La-La Land Records] page for BSG Season 2 sountrack, with sample clips.

[[Category: A to Z]] [[Category:Merchandise]]

Talk:Main Page/Archive6

2006-06-13T05:20:37Z

Scoke Faofa: /* Freinds... */

:'''Edit Front Page content'''
:''[[Battlestar Wiki:Quotes|Quotes]]'' | ''[[Main Page/Featured Article|Featured Article]]'' | ''[[Battlestar Wiki:News/Airdates|Airdates]]'' | ''[[Template:lastairepisode|Last aired episode]]'' | ''[[Battlestar Wiki:News/Cylon News Service|News]]'' | ''[[Battlestar Wiki:News/Merchandise|Merchandise]]''
:''[[Main Page/Featured Picture|Featured Picture]]'' | ''[[Battlestar Wiki:Project List/Main Page Feature|Featured Project]]'' | ''[[Main Page/Community Section|Community section]]'' | ''[[Main Page/Friends Section|Friends section]]''

: ''View [[Talk:Main Page/Archive|archived discussions]] prior to July 7, 2005 at the link provided.''

__TOC__

== Suggestions ==

To make any suggestions as to the format of the main page, please leave them here. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 21:49, 9 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Hello Joe, I was wondering if their might be a possibility of us adding on a message board for members of BSG Wiki to discuss the actual show rather than the website itself. I think that if we created a community message board it would promote a greater community/fraternity among the members and if we limited it to members it might decrease the number of random messages left on the board. I know it is kind of unwiki of us to do this but since this particular site it concerned with BSG rather than a plethora of items I thought it might be a good idea. What do you think? [[User:Zarek Rocks]]

:If you're looking for a good BSG-related message board, you could try the one at [http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showforum=745 Television Without Pity] --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:40, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

:: I know that there is a pretty good message board at [http://www.galacticastation.com Galactica Station], as well. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:34, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

The next High Definition/Dolby Digital 5.1 broadcast of Battlestar Galactica is "Flight of the Phoenix" which airs Sunday 2/26/2006 at 8pm EST on the Universal HD channel. The Universal HD channel is available from Dish Network and DirecTV as well as many cable operators. Please update the main page with this info. http://www.universalhd.com/Schedule/search.bravo?month=2006-12&keyword=Battlestar&start=today
:The "article of the day" content on the main page should be free for editing by all users in both the [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Template:Article/Spoiler-free&action=edit spoiler free] and [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Template:Article&action=edit spoiler versions]. (Ideally both would be updated at the same time, so they both stay current, although it appears the "spoiler version" may be a bit behind the times. The Main Page itself is protected (so normal users can't mess with the formatting), but most of the actual content is made up of user modifiable templates. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:46, 23 February 2006 (EST)

Thanks. Updated the page myself. --[[User:mattchan|mattchan]]

Not really a suggestion for the main page but wasnt sure where to put it. I propose changing the [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/skins/common/images/redirect.png redirect image] to one that doesnt look like grey dots (black anti-aliased text on black bg). Perhaps a simple inversion of colours will suffice? [[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 07:58, 28 March 2006 (CST)

== Style Conventions ==

I didn't know what the approaite discussion page for this would be, so I am putting it here as a first stab. I have a question about the "tense" convention being used here on BSG-wiki. While some have noted that this is not wikipedia, I am curious as to why we are using present tense usage on events which occurred prior to the current "timeline" within the show? It seems to me events as they unfold and described here, should be used in the past-tense while ongoing terms and concepts that are presumed still active within the context of the "current timeline" of the show would be present-tense. For example, shouldn't descriptions of Baltar's background, and events which have already occurred on Caprica, etc. be in the past-tense, while referring to him as the Vice-President, and duties onboard ''Galcatica'', etc. be present-tense? Likewise shouldn't passages about say the development of the Mark II Viper be past-tense, while current disposition and capabilities of the Mark II be present-tense? Not trying to be overly pedantic, but if we were to use and adopt the convention that this "encyclopedia" were to be discussing things and concepts within BSG as if it "were real" so-to-speak, like say in a present day encyclopedia would describe the development of the F-14 Tomcat in past-tense terms but describe current description of the presently active variants of the F-14 (i.e. the F-14D) and its deployment and present status within the arsenal of the United States Navy, it would be present-tense. Contrast that with descriptions of say, a WWII German Stuka Bomber which would all be past-tense in a current day encyclopedia. Any thoughts? [[User:Lestatdelc|Lestatdelc]] 12:38, 30 November 2005 (EST)

::The [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions]] project article should be your first stop. Lords know we've all gone this way and that over the very things you've noted. You'll probably find your answer there (and see my reply to you on my talk page on the specifics of tense in character pages based on what's in the standard). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:26, 30 November 2005 (EST)

== Quote-o-Matic ==
What's with the (non-working) quote o the day on the front page? Is this a template problem, or what? Can I help? ....or what? [[User:Colonial one|Colonial one]] 22:54, 16 Aug 2005 (EDT)
:There is no automatic script to generate the quotes. They must be added manually per day. You can add them yourself, should you choose to take up the task. :-) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:09, 16 Aug 2005 (EDT)
::I'd like to add a quote, but, uh... I don't want to mess it up because it then won't be seen for a year, I think. Is there a way to look at quotes that have already been put in, so I can copy the formatting? I tried the little Quote link, but the one that was added for 08 29 wasn't on there, so I think that's not right. Or something. I'm such a confused noob. ;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:59, 30 August 2005 (EDT)
:: That's OK, Day. I (or someone) can do a template for a quote-of-the-day. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:49, 30 August 2005 (EDT)
:::On that note, how can I see a list of templates, in case I want to utilize one. So far the only way I've figured it out, is to find a page that uses it, edit that, to steal the template info, then go to the place I'd want to use it, paste it in, then change the stuff appropriately. --[[User:Day|Day]] 11:50, 30 August 2005 (EDT)
:::Whenever this all gets sorted out, I guess it needs to go here: [[Template:Quote of the Day/Readme]]. I can certainly do it, it's just the link is small, and I thought I'd note it here for future reference, as well. --[[User:Day|Day]] 05:09, 31 August 2005 (EDT)
::::So... I guess I should go ahead and ask some specific questions... I assume we incluse the words said in double-quotes. It's really the attributation... attribution... Whatever--the indication of who said it that's the issue. Do we put the name with a dash before? Two dashes? Do we do it in-line or on the next one down or two down? Do we do it in italics or bold or normal font? Do we say the situation all the time or only if needed? Should we link the episode it came from? These are the kinds of things I think should be in the readme. --[[User:Day|Day]] 19:15, 1 September 2005 (EDT)
:Yo, just thought I'd add that I worked on the [[Quotes]] page quite a bit. It displays all current quotes (that I know of). And it should be super-easy to link to more quotes now, just check the source for example. ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 00:06, 30 September 2005 (EDT)
::I thought I should mention, today's quote is wrongly said. The actual words were something around "If President Adar stepped out of that Raptor I would be elated.." --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 10:15 19 April 2006
I am been developing projects at work using PHP and mySQL and probably could code a "Quote-o-Matic". I am correct that Wiki Software uses PHP and mySQL? Just a thought. --[[User:Gougef|gougef]] 10:36, 8 May 2006 (CDT)
:It would be the same problem I discussed before. We still have to enter the quotes into the database and work it so that there was 365 Unique quotes, unless your talking about "random" output. I work on the http://www.battlestarwiki.org/hangarbay/index.php/Main_Page where we test everything. Maybe we can do something where we can intergrate "quote" display and entering them on a page within the Wiki. Contact me at shane.froebel AT gmail DOT com --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 10:59, 8 May 2006 (CDT)

== NPOV? ==
Does BattlestarWiki have a NPOV policy, as Wikipedia.org does? I was noticing some pretty strong POV in [[James Callis]], for example. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 10:10, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

: It does, indeed. For reference, see the [[Battlestar Wiki:Welcome, newcomers]] page. Hope that's helpful. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:04, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

There also seems to be a great deal of opinion in the "analysis" section of most episode guides. Is it the intent to not use NPOV in this section? - Jason

== Fan Fiction ==
Since we don't have a community portal yet, I suggest listing fan fiction pages here for later deletion or movement to the forthcoming fanfiction site.
* [[History of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol]] --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 12:18, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

==IRC Channel?==
Some friends and I have an [irc://irc.villageirc.net/battlestargalactica IRC channel] set up for discussion of BSG. Would it be appropriate/acceptable to link to it in the 'Community' box on the [[Main Page]]? Or elsewhere? ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 00:06, 30 September 2005 (EDT)
:As I've seen no objections in several months, I guess I'll go ahead and do it ;P ~ [[User:Aero|Aero]] 20:28, 11 March 2006 (CST)

== How BSG Wiki Compares to Other Wikis ==

I've been visiting other wikis that include SF content, just to compare them to the BSG Wiki. You can visit yourself, but I'm happy to say that, in my slightly-biased review, the Battlestar Galactica Wiki is among the most concise, detailed, and well-maintained wikis of its kind, although there's lots of work to be done. If I were to give a rating out of ten stars to the places I've visited, these would be my grades, based on

# Depth and relevant content (overall breadth of material; is it a true encyclopedia or overly-POV?)
# Detail of popular pages, such as central characters or events
# Photo content and other illustrative content in articles
# Server speed, wiki navigation and design, and convenience in access

* '''Battlestar Wiki''': 7.5 out of 10
* '''[http://en.wikipedia.org Wikipedia]''': 9.5 out of 10
* '''[http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Main_Page Memory Alpha]''', the Star Trek wikpedia: 9 out of 10
* '''[http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/Main_Page The Great Machine]''', the Babylon 5 wikipedia (of which BSG Wiki was inspired): 4 out of 10
* '''[http://tviv.org/wiki/Main_Page The TVIV Wiki]''', a general TV episode encyclopedia: 6.5 out of 10

Of these, the venerable '''Wikipedia''' still holds as king of the wikis with the many, many contributors that are ceaseless in their relative accuracy. Only the anonymous editing (and resultant spamming) deters from this site. Almost every page in Wikipedia has substantial content or illustration. '''Battlestar Wiki''' lacks the sheer number of pages (of which I cannot accurately determine; how about an article counter, Joe?) but its depth and relevant information per page on its best pages equals Wikipedia's standard. BSG Wiki has one Achille's Heel; ''the comparative lack of information on the Original Series pages as opposed to the Re-imagined Series is almost shameful'', which brought the wiki's personal score down 1 point.

The '''Babylon 5 Wiki''', where Joe got his inspiration to build this wiki, is sadly in poor shape. Central character pages such as Delenn and Sheridan are extremely sparse, almost to major stub levels. Episode pages aren't bad, although they're remarkably short in comparison to BSG Wiki's. '''Memory Alpha Wiki''' is a powerfully built wiki for Star Trek, with excellent cross referencing and depth on character and episode pages. Perhaps the wiki is ''too'' large as the massive amount of aired information, combined with book and fan fiction and serious contradictive elements makes for reading the wiki a bit of a chore. And, unfortunately, Star Trek has serious canonical issues that make the wiki's data difficult to authenticate. On a lighter note, '''The TVIV Wiki''' is a fun wiki to any television show, which includes some BSG episode pages with GREAT screen caps. It just got started last July and has some performance issues, but is shaping up to be a good wiki.

BSG Wiki is coming up on its one-year anniversary, and has a lot to show for itself. Congratulations to everyone as a fellow contributor, and help the lesser wikis out when you're not pondering things here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:48, 6 December 2005 (EST)

: Wow. I really have nothing to add to this -- it's pretty much spot on. Particularly the point of the difference in quality between TOS and TNS content. If anything else, it demonstrates that there's more interest in TNS than TOS. (Although this doesn't mean that this isn't an area that needs work -- it does.) Another minor note, I really didn't get the inspiration from the B5 Wiki -- I was more inspired by the Lurker's Guide than anything else -- but the only thing that is inspired from it is the main page format, that's really it. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:12, 7 December 2005 (EST)

:: Damn! And here I thought I had something to be proud of ;) In its defense, the B5 wiki lacks the active fanbase the BSG currently has, making it difficult to really get stuff going. Though I have to thank Joe here for his massive contribution to my little place. Hopefully I'll be able to return the favor 'round these parts! --[[User:Sanfam|Sanfam]] 02:51, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

:::Welcome to the BSG Wiki, Sanfam! :-) I do intend to resume contributing to The Great Machine later on. I don't know if you have GTalk, but if you do, please feel free to message me, as I do wish to help you guys out. We live for the One, we die for the One... and all that. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:51, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

== Logo ==
[[Image:Bsg logo test.jpg]] 
Made a new logo for the wiki. Do people prefer it? And is it possible to change anyway?--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 02:54, 3 January 2006 (EST)

: Heh. This is the third (as far as I know) new logo on offer. Cf. [[User talk:Joe.Beaudoin#Logo]] --[[User:Day|Day]] 15:35, 3 January 2006 (EST)

== Quotes link ==

This is all fairly trivial, but at the bottom of the page there is 2 links for quote of the day: readme and edit. The readme one links the current quote, which seems a little pointless to me when you can read it on the main page. Also readme implies a helpful explanation of something or whatever. Edit is an external style link for some reason. Plus "article of the day" is the articles of intrest, and not updated daily. As I said, not important, just thought I'd point it out.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 07:22, 7 January 2006 (EST)
:We've been discussing this for the past week or so; can't seem to find "quality" articles...--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 11:25, 7 January 2006 (EST)
::I agree that we need to wait for the wiki to grow before having an article of the day, I'm just suggesting that the link be renamed to articles of intrest as it actually is in the meantime.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 20:13, 7 January 2006 (EST)

== Article count ==

It'd be cool to have an article count near the top of the page. Most wikis have one, and I think its neat. Almost 1000 articles now :).--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 02:43, 29 January 2006 (EST)
: I'll put one up next time I get to edit the Main Page. (Actually, any admin can now edit the main page directly, should the choose.) And most of those thousand articles are quality as well... Spencerian and Steelviper have been rooting out the "telephone" articles. :-) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 08:52, 29 January 2006 (EST)

== Punctuation ==

: ''This discussion has been moved to [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions]] by [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] at 10:53, 5 February 2006 (EST).''

==Update the spoiler section==

Only an adminstrator can do this, not me: the Cylon POV episode, "Downloaded", is in fact not canceled and never was. This needs to be updated.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:33, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:I think that [[Template:Article]] is not protected, so you can hack away at it if you don't like how I fixed the "cancellation". You might use the Admin notice board if you want to get Admins on something even quicker (even though I generally patrol Recent Changes pretty closely anyway). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:17, 5 February 2006 (EST)

==Navigation==

As a newbie to this Wiki I have found that navigating around it can be difficult. For example if you click on Episodes you are taken to the Category page for Episodes which simply lists all episodes in alphabetical order. Would it make the Wiki easier to use if there was a link to an introduction page for each of the series, ie [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Battlestar Galactica (TOS)]]. I would put the link up myself but I can't access the main page for editing. Any comments? --[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 05:20, 6 March 2006 (CST)

:That's not a bad idea. A link to the series pages makes a lot of sense. You do have access to edit all the main page content, it's just stored off in templates (like [[Template:Content/Menu/Box1|this]]). However, I'm not sure if there's enough room on the RDM template without spilling over. If we have to link the headers, it would take an admin to do it. Let's let some others weigh in before we go linking to the headers, but if you can figure out a slick way to link using the templates (Box1,2, and 3 respectively), then you're welcome to take a shot. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 06:55, 6 March 2006 (CST)

::Thanks for the advice. The page I have linked to is headed TOS but it includes all three series. I think that if we go ahead with this the TOS page needs to be spilt into three. --[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 07:18, 6 March 2006 (CST)

:::That's interesting. [[Galactica 1980]] does have its own page, and obviously [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)]] is standalone. You're correct that we should probably look at reworking the Galactica (TOS) page to stand on its own better. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:32, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Main Page Re-org ==
Would the mid-season break be a good time to ponder a new look for the main page? I've been moonlighting a bit at the [http://galciv.wikicities.com/wiki/Galactic_Civilizations_Wiki GalCiv II Wiki] (I started while the battlewiki was down, so it wasn't cheating!), and some discussions about revamping the front page their got me thinking about this main page. I realized that I don't really use the main page here. Part of that has to do with the fact that my starting point is usually the [[Special:Recentchanges|Recent Changes]], and I'm not sure if there's anything that can be done about that. Also, another of my main contribution areas focuses around the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|OSAD]], which nicely enough has a handy sidebar button. So I don't need much out of a main page.

What changes do I propose? Well, the first thing that sticks out for me is the huge amount of "whitespace" (black, in this case) present under the intro. Part of this has to do, I believe, with the current size of the "Article of Interest". However, a couple things I'd like to see added would be a "featured article" (which I think used to be done, but was discontinued), and maybe some slices into the content (links to prominent articles or somesuch). I know we have the categories upfront, but I'm not sure if those are the best way to navigate.

I just wanted to throw the idea out there (since I was already stirring up trouble at LDYB, II). This page is protected, so if you're interested in playing with designs you can copy the source of this page to the sandbox or create a work area under your user space (kind of like [[User:Steelviper/CommunityPortal|this community portal work area]]). Or start from scratch. A lot of the updated content on the main page is within templates, so you could tie the templates into your design without necessarily keeping the layout of the page exactly the same (just don't mess with the templates, as that would affect this page too). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:17, 13 March 2006 (CST)

I been working on a new design for about an hour now. It's up [[User:Shane/Main_Page|here]] on a sub-page of my userpage. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 05:24, 14 March 2006 (CST)

Please see my comments on Shane's page. --[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 05:27, 14 March 2006 (CST)

To put this out here... if we go with a new main design, would it be after we got the basic foundation for all the portal's done? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 10:50, 17 March 2006 (CST)

: That would be preferable. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:57, 17 March 2006 (CST)

== IMDB Links ==

They should be used to a miniuiam. If I were a fan, I would be going back to the IMDB page for ever. This is why Crew and Stars need their own pages. Otherwise we are not keeping traffic to this site, but to other sites. Why should we have a Crew Page or Actor Page when IMDB gives us a listing of what they have done? If someone where ADD as I am, I would be going through and looking what else they be doing. I get lost. Lets create them a small bio, lets do it right. If they are a main cast bio them up. If they recurring stars with miniiual appearenes, point out which shows they were in. I am working on templates for this so it will be easier. Right now I only got a crew template going for Directors and Writers and they are the smallest group. But if you do any more linking with Actor names, make them their own Wiki Interneal Link, and I will get to the template later for them. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 10:27, 18 March 2006 (CST)
:Is it possible to link to another website from a wiki in another browser window? This would have the advantage of letting you see what is on the other website but also keep you on the existing page. --[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 12:55, 19 March 2006 (CST)

==Indexing on THE==
As I continue my ''crusade'' as Steelviper calls it, I am rapidly approaching the letter T. There are articles that have been indexed on THE. This means you have a number of pages, ie [[The Fleet (TOS)]] starting with T.

Should we be indexing on the next word, ie Fleet, The, for clarity? This also applies to episode titles. --[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 04:20, 6 April 2006 (CDT)
:Yes I agree, "the" should not be the index word --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 04:50, 6 April 2006 (CDT)
::That depends on what your definition of the word "the" is... oh, nevermind. Sounds good. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:42, 6 April 2006 (CDT)

'The' as used as a definite article --[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 08:04, 6 April 2006 (CDT)

::: Steelviper for President in 1993!!! --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) 23:17, 6 April 2006 (CDT)

:::It's "The Fleet". I don't know if we can fix the wiki code to ignore "the" for this and go to "fleet" and "f", but it is ''the'' fleet. --->either way fix a redirect or two I don't consider it a big issue. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 23:38, 6 April 2006 (CDT)
::::Down in the bottom in the category section you can specify what the wiki sorts on. You just put a pipe (|) and then your new sort text. So you might put "Category:A to Z|Fleet, The" (with brackets instead of quotes) to get it to sort off of Fleet. That'll only affect sorting in the specified category, and I'm not sure how many people browse by categories... but I thought I'd throw that out there. If you don't specify a sort text, it defaults to the article name, so it is unnecessary to add one if the article name is fine as an index. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:19, 7 April 2006 (CDT)

== "Wikipedia" ==
I'm pretty sure "Wikipedia" is a trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, and as such shouldn't be used here. The front page current has "The Battlestar Wikipedia". --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 10:28, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:It's debateable. I have always had the feeling that as long as you try not to make money of a trademark, you can have it. Just my understanding of trademark law. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:02, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:: Well, not exactly... Anyway, the term is inaccurate (and a holdover from the early days when I started the wiki), so I've changed it. I may have to go through some of the other older pages as well, mainly [[Battlestar Wiki:About]]... but that's about it. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 14:25, 10 April 2006 (CDT)
:::I think it looks better as "wiki" now instead of "wikipedia" anyway.--[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 03:16, 11 April 2006 (CDT)

== URL Reffer Error ==

Joe, when someon tries to access the site from outside this wiki and they point to the address: [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/ http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/] it returns [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Index.php http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Index.php] which is an invaild page. You might have to re-write the rewrite rules during the update to 1.6.3 (more bug fixes, yes) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:11, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
:When I go to http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/ it doesnt do that. it goes to the Main_Page. Try clearing your cache and flushing your dns? Could be a problem on your end. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 08:50, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
::I tried that. I am using the wikipieda toolbar firefox extension and I have that excat URL in the settings, and when I click on the link it gives me an error if I am on an outside site. When I did the same thing for Wikipedia (EN), it went to the correct page. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:15, 11 April 2006 (CDT)
:The actual URL is http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php. The "/wiki" directory is essentially a symlink to "en/index.php". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:30, 11 April 2006 (CDT)

==Last.fm now playing image==
For a start I think this talk page needs a bit of cleaning up and a lot of sections archived... but anyway.

If anyone has been on [[:user:Mercifull|my userpage recently]] you might have seen my songs image. Well it takes its data from [http://www.last.fm Last.fm] by logging what songs you listen to using a plugin and generating charts each week of your listening habits. Well I made a Battlestar Wiki theme that anyone can use on thier own profiles if they wish.

Weekly artists: 
http://imagegen.last.fm/bsgwiki/artists/Mercifull.gif

Weekly tracks: 
http://imagegen.last.fm/bsgwiki/tracks/Mercifull.gif

Last track played: 
http://imagegen.last.fm/bsg-lastplayed/recenttracks/Mercifull.gif

[http://www.last.fm/onyoursite/chartgallery/bsgwiki/+yours/Mercifull/1 Create your own chart image] --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 09:45, 11 April 2006 (CDT)

== XHTML ==
"This Page Is Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional!" The main page is now XHTML-ified! For whatever THAT'S worth. Let me know if I screwed up any of the formatting in my wikifying crusade. I also learned a horrible truth about the Content/menu template:

{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1" style="border: 1px solid #a60003;"
! {{spoilerplate}}
|-
| class="spoiltext_box"|There are no borders! It's just a red background "seeping through".
|}

I'm not sure how important it is that we meet that standard, but it's something I was only vaguely aware of (what with the /br's and all). I'll try to keep it in mind going forward. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:47, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

:That's really a disgusting tidbit about the spoiler box. Anyway, I'm impressed you got anything generated from Wikicode to pass a verification; I congratulate thee. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 21:02, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

== The Community & The Fan Stuff ==
The Community & The Fan Stuff are growing! Now, while that's a good thing in general, it's getting pretty crazy in terms of their little "boxes" on the current main page design. Most of my main page redesign thoughts try to capture all the original templates from the current design, but it's hard to incorporate such large groups as they tend to overwhelm. Is there any way the sections could be seamlessly subdivided into logical sections, so that they can still be edited, still appear to be part of one group on this design, but are broken up into smaller sections under the covers (so that they might more easily be moved around when playing with designs)? Looking at the links there seem to be:
# Official Sites
# News Sites
# Forums
# Character Pages
# i18n Community

The fan stuff is currently being dominated by the RPG elements. The only other component to the fan stuff is the mods/games. Maybe we might try to find room for the [[Fan fiction]] article in there somewhere? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:20, 20 April 2006 (CDT)

Add this: http://www.mediablvd.com/forums/index.php?showforum=180 to links please. Wish I had known about this ''before'' everything--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 00:41, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

: '''Sigh...''' That didn't help. (I went ahead and added it though. I also fixed the "edit" buttons on the link boxes so the bottom ones worked as intended (they were pointing to the top boxes instead... my bad).) In my "logical" scheme that would be another "forum" link, though. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:47, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

::While I'm on the subject, the current Aauron Douglas forum link is just a subforum of MediaBlvd so it is redundant; there is a Aaron Douglas fansite, http://aarondouglas.biz/index.php, which would be better as it even has a link to the MediaBlvd suforum.
::Also, we should add this good French site: http://www.battlestargalactica-online.com/, as well as this ''very'' good Czech site: http://bsg-cz.net/ (they often get news faster than most other sites thanks to some Bright Boys they have there that get their hands on stuff over the internet, but people often don't notice for a week or two later because it's in Czech). --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:25, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:::The links can be edited at [[Template:Content/Menu/Box4]]. (I went ahead and added/changed those links over, though.) I still feel like the list is getting pretty long. I like the way it is split up on the main page redesign. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:37, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

::::Yeah I don't want stuff to get long and all pushed around but I'd like to include everyone. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:00, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

== New Main Page Design ==
That's a pretty sweet design you've got there, Joe. Now that it's live, there are a couple of things that I'd love to see happen.
# get the "Featured" sections going for real (the current featured article and picture weren't really "elected")
# revamp and finish out the RDM portal (I generally stay out of the RDM stuff, and this portal has suffered for it. I'm hoping Merv will seize the reins with regards to the "Did you know" section, and that others might make some suggestions as to layout and content for that portal.)
I guess those are the "main" things I wanted to get at. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:21, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
:On the old design, there were links in the bottom of the page to the "edit" pages of each section on the page, can this be done with the new design so we know where to edit to make changes? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 11:30, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
::Ah, yes. The old readme/edit. Would that model be prefered to floating and "edit" button on the right side of the header section? (Like a section edit?). The "section edit" seems more consistent with the rest of the site, but some might argue that it makes the main page content too easily accessible. Any thoughts? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:35, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
:::Yeah im not too fond of the idea of "edit" buttons all over the main page. But perhaps something in the footer or talk page? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 11:42, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
::::Oooh. Like a "Main Page Control Panel"? I'm liking it. I'll go gather some of the edit links, and maybe post a little something down here. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:44, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
<div align="center">
(''[http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Main_Page/Community_Section&action=edit community section]'' | ''[http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page/Friends_Section&action=edit friends section]'' | ''[[Template:lastairepisode| last aired episode]]'' | ''[[Battlestar Wiki:News/Airdates|Airdates]]'' | ''[http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Battlestar_Wiki:News/Cylon_News_Service&action=edit news]'')
</div>
::::These could go on the bottom somewhere, or towards the top of the talk page? (Also, we'd probably want to ditch the hardcoded urls. If we put it on the main page that's easy... I just wasn't sure how to use the appropriate fullurl variable on the talk page.) (Still need to maybe add buttons for the news section, etc? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:00, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
:::::I think we should try to get all of the old links we used to have up yesterday displayed again. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:02, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
::::::Ultimately, I believe those links should go to the [[Battlestar Wiki:Community Portal]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 23:15, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
Pretty good: off the top of my head, I think the box on the top (the red one) is a little too large and might need to be sized down; it pushes other information down the page, leaving mostly a blank space. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 11:53, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
:I'm with you. I think this problem resulted from squeezing the "Last Aired Episode" up into the banner, which pushed the portals down. We could potentially... give up half of the space of the quotes (50/50) with the other side being either the Last Aired box? I'm not sure how that change would cascade down though. Maybe if we cut down to just listing the three "big" portals (TOS, 1980, RDM) horizontally? We'd lose easy access to the ships, characters, and cylons portals, but it would make the banner smaller. Any other ideas? (I'll try to look at the html behind the banner, and see if I can figure out how to change the "margins" on it, but my html skills are pretty weak.)--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:08, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
:: It looks great. I have no suggestions, just wanted to express the positive. Thanks for all the hard work guys. --[[User:Mazzy|Mazzy]] 12:14, 1 May 2006 (CDT)

::Ditto. Been looking forward to the page change for awhile; it reflects the polish of the site as a whole. With the great work done on the Original Series articles as well, I'm overdue for revising my [[Talk:Main_Page#How_BSG_Wiki_Compares_to_Other_Wikis|personal grade of our wiki with others]], and this page is one of the high points to mention. Nice work to all contributors. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:21, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
:::I am sure it's going to be a 10 :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:17, 1 May 2006 (CDT)

How is this?
<div align="center">
(''[[Battlestar Wiki:Quotes|Quotes]]'' |
''[[Main Page/Featured Article|Featured Article]]'' |
''[[Battlestar Wiki:News/Airdates|Airdates]]'' |
''[[Template:lastairepisode|Last aired episode]]'' |
''[[Battlestar Wiki:News/Cylon News Service|News]]'' |
''[[Battlestar Wiki:News/Merchandise|Merchandise]]'' 
''[[Main Page/Featured Picture|Featured Picture]]'' |
''[[Battlestar Wiki:Project List/Main Page Feature|Featured Project]]'' |
''[[Main Page/Community Section|Community section]]'' |
''[[Main Page/Friends Section|Friends section]]'')
</div>

--[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 13:29, 1 May 2006 (CDT)

:I could even put that even in a BOX. Icon suggested? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:30, 1 May 2006 (CDT)
:Most of them can also be done by clicking on the icons themselfs. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:38, 1 May 2006 (CDT)

Example:


{| width="100%" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top; background-color:#1F0B0B; margin: 1em 0;"
! style="background-color:#461919; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size:120%; border:1px solid #461919; text-align:left; padding-left: 0.4em; color:white;" |
{| style="background-color:#461919; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align:left; color:white;"
| {{Click|image=BSG-WIKI SM.png|link=Main Page|width=25px|height=25px}}
|Edit Main Page Content
|}
|-
| align="center" | ''[[Battlestar Wiki:Quotes|Quotes]]'' | ''[[Main Page/Featured Article|Featured Article]]'' | ''[[Battlestar Wiki:News/Airdates|Airdates]]'' | ''[[Template:lastairepisode|Last aired episode]]'' | ''[[Battlestar Wiki:News/Cylon News Service|News]]'' | ''[[Battlestar Wiki:News/Merchandise|Merchandise]]'' | ''[[Main Page/Featured Picture|Featured Picture]]'' | ''[[Battlestar Wiki:Project List/Main Page Feature|Featured Project]]'' | ''[[Main Page/Community Section|Community section]]'' | ''[[Main Page/Friends Section|Friends section]]'' 
|-
|}

:Oooh. Pretty! If this was a Star Trek wiki I'd consider an LCARS interface for a "control panel", but the box looks really sharp. I think Joe mentioned something above about maybe putting that over at [[Battlestar Wiki:Community Portal]]? I'd say that'd be a pretty accessible location. (Maybe have a link to that area from this talk page instead of having two "control panels".)--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:42, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
::With all the work done over there, I might just redsign it again to look like the main page. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:55, 2 May 2006 (CDT)
:::Looks really good, is it not possible to use some dhtml to show/hide it from the front page or summit? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 12:56, 2 May 2006 (CDT)

== Main Page -> Same Across different lanauges ==

Just as the "subject" suggests, should we make all the main pages look the same? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:13, 14 May 2006 (CDT)

:That should be up to the communities of the other languages. It would be nice of you to offer a hand setting it up, but the decision should be theirs. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:15, 14 May 2006 (CDT)

== BSG Wiki Logo Image location ==
I'd like to use the BSG wiki logo for something I'm throwing together, and I'd rather have the original image that's in the upper left hand corner to work with (rather than just print screening and pulling it from there). Does anybody know the Image: location or url or whatever that holds that image? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:01, 25 May 2006 (CDT)
:Sent u the link via Gtalk. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:21, 25 May 2006 (CDT)

== Friends... ==

What does another site have to do, really, to get on our little "Friends" list? I just wondered if there were any rules or... what? I thought, since we link Memory Alpha, that it might be appropriate to link the [http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page Wookieepedia], seeing as how it's another huge Wiki about a popular SciFi universe (or Space Opera, but let's not split hairs). Anyway... What's the story? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 00:03, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
:Well.. I created the "friends" section to hightlight sites that have a lot of common elements to each other. Gateworld - Learn about most BSG News Here. MA - A lot of the Actors/Crew have down work in Star Trek and BSG is compared to Star Trek. Wikipedia - Has large sections of just everything. inlcuding the templates, and styles we use on the site. This is my unoffical policy of the friends section bear in mind. I wouldn't just put any old site on this section unless if it did had a significant impact on the subject matter at hand. I don't see alot of Star Wars references in this Wiki. That's why I would not put that site in this section. Plus we have a thing with {{tl|gateworldphoto}} and I think Joe is talking or might soon be talking with {{tl|memoryalphaphoto}}. We use alot of the same common images. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:21, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:: Ah. Now I know. Fair enough. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 01:56, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

== Did you know... ==

So I was thinking of adding a "Did You Know..." section under the "Airdates" section (if for no other reason than that space is not used), but I couldn't figure it out. I have some ides for Did You Know...s, so if someone else has already started working on this, lemme know. Just while I'm thinking of it, I'll post what's in my head now right here. Otherwise I'll forget.

::'''Did You Know...'''
::*...that [[Wikipedia:Thrace|Thrace]] is a geographic area somewhat north of [[Wikipedia:Greece|Greece]]?
::*...that both [[Zak Adama]] and [[Ellen Tigh]] have been portrayed by two different actors?
::*...that [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] was originally never intended to appear after being left on [[Caprica]] in the [[Miniseries]]?
::*...that [[Samuel Anders]]' last name is derived from the Greek word for "Man"?

I thought of some more while I was typing that. Anyway... there's those. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:37, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

: Oh. I just now saw that there's a "Did you know..." section on the RDM portal... Is there a reason not to put it over here and include questions from all continuities? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 23:39, 2 June 2006 (CDT)
::I still like the idea of "did you know" on the front page. I can add it to the [[Battlestar Wiki:Main page|main page project]]. Under what section is the question. With the news being so long it is really tough. Right now I am working on the cite.php file to see if I can place the refernces in another area (new section on the front page - also see [[Battlestar Wiki:Main page#Current Design|current design]]) so they would not interfere with the disuption of the news elements with the left side coloum. Plus I think the airdates will get longer once our internationial users start putting up their airdates. So everything will balance out I think for Season 3. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 23:48, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

:::I'll get right on it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 07:52, 3 June 2006 (CDT)

Soundtrack (Season 2)

2006-06-08T00:47:55Z

Scoke Faofa: /* Track Listing */