Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Tahmoh Penikett

2009-03-22T05:15:23Z

Rocky8311:

{{Cast Data
| image= Tahmoh Penikett.jpg
| character= [[Karl Agathon]]
| born_month= 05
| born_day= 20
| born_year= 1975
| death_month=
| death_day=
| death_year=
| nationality= CA
| imdb= 0671886
}}

'''Tahmoh Penikett''' (born May 20, 1975) is a [[Wikipedia:Canada|Canadian]] actor who portrays [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined ''Battlestar Galactica'']].

Born in the [[Wikipedia:Yukon|Yukon]], Penikett is the son of former Yukon premier [[Wikipedia:Tony Penikett|Tony Penikett]], a member of the New Democratic Party of Canada.

Having recently entered the world of television acting, Tahmoh but has an impressive list of guest appearances in genre shows such as ''Dark Angel'', ''Stargate SG-1'', and ''Smallville'', as well as a lead role in the police procedural drama ''Cold Squad'' and Joss Whedon's "Dollhouse".

==External Links==
*[http://tahmohpenikett.blogspot.com/ All about Tahmoh Penikett] includes a full biography.
*[http://www.pinkraygun.com/2007/05/18/pink-raygun-interviews-tahmoh-penikett/ May 2007 interview with Tahmoh Penikett] on pinkraygun.com

[[Category:A to Z|Penikett, Tahmoh]]
[[Category:Cast|Penikett, Tahmoh]]
[[Category:Cast (RDM)|Penikett, Tahmoh]]
[[Category:Former Stargate Cast and Crew|Penikett, Tahmoh]]
[[Category:RDM|Penikett, Tahmoh]]

[[de:Tahmoh Penikett]]
[[ms:Tahmoh Penikett]]

Template talk:Character Data

2009-01-21T07:15:41Z

Rocky8311: /* Revision */

== Feature Request ==

Would it be possible to have the Cylon field actually discern what's entered? That way we could make note of people who are actually Cylons and also of people who are ''definately not'' cylons. This isn't something that's really imperative, but would be neat. It's not worth having to write a massive java script for or something. --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:38, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

:I don't think this is a good idea. That field should only be used for clearly confirmed Cylons. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:44, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

:: My thought was actually to, then, link to your "white-list" idea the way that the current functionality links to the Humano-Cylon page. Not even your "grey-list" of probably-nots. Whatever, though. No big deal. :) --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:48, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

==Revision==

Since it's very tedious to go through all 70+ articles using this template, it would make sense to put together a package of revisions to do all at once. Here's my wishlist:

#Age and Colony should be optional fields
#We should have some kind of "assignment" field to distinguish Galactica and Pegasus personnel
#The awkward "marital status" could stand to be replaced by "Partner", "Spouse" and "Former Partner(s)", "Former Spouse(s)", or something to that effect.
#Serial number should be included as an optional field, for the few characters where it is known.
#Optional nickname field, for non-pilots ("Dee")
#Is there any way to make fields plural if they are fed multiple arguments ("Role" vs. "Roles")?
#Is there any way to make the ref and ref_label templates work inside the character data template?

Any other thoughts? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:27, 9 December 2005 (EST)

:Yeah. I think, rather than assignment, we should put that into Role(s). So, like, Lee would be, "[[Commander Air Group|CAG]], ''[[Galactica]]''" when he's re-instated. Bill would be, "Commanding Officer, ''[[Galactica]]''" or something similar. See what I'm getting at? --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:13, 9 December 2005 (EST)

::It took me some time to figure out where to properly comment, but I think Peter should carry out his earlier idea of changing the name of the "Marital Relationship" field. Multiple articles have used this field for non-marital affairs; its name has become inaccurate in the course of time. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 07:15, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

==Wanted Pages==
Elements of the character data template are now occupying the top slots of the wanted pages. Is there anything we can do to "fix" those links to keep them from showing up on that list (so that unwritten user pages can regain their supremacy)? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:07, 10 January 2006 (EST)
:Can you link to an example? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:20, 10 January 2006 (EST)
::Template:Character Data/Marital Status is one. These were delete by Joe as "obsolete". --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:26, 10 January 2006 (EST)
: Yes, all you need to do is click the edit tab on each page that links to the obsolete templates and then save it -- you don't have to actually edit anything. Without resorting to some weasley technobabble, you are just resubmitting the content that's already there. (And, consequently, removing the requests for the deleted elements of the character data template.) Make sense? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:22, 10 January 2006 (EST)
::By your command. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:03, 10 January 2006 (EST)

== Using the Age Field? ==

I remember that there a big discussion against the use of the age field since we really cannot verify the ages of anyone in the series until there is a calendar system and we get birthdays and the like. Sure we can extrapolate, but that's all that is, and it looks awfully sloppy. I've been dicing away this information for now from character bios, but after I hit the Saul Tigh page I thought this warranted a formal review. Should we dispense with the use of the age field entirely for now or allow the sloppy approximations? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:46, 19 January 2006 (EST)
: I'd say drop it. Is it really all that relevant anyway? [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 15:54, 19 January 2006 (EST)
::Concur. Anybody can "guess" ages, but I don't think it adds anything to put guesses there. One step further, I'm not sure if it really even matters if it is a known fact, other than perhaps establishing timelines, etc. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:57, 19 January 2006 (EST)
:::I was thinking, naughtily, that if even if Roslin and Admiral Adama are ten years apart in age, he's still going to get some anyway. :) We'll need to adjust the specs on the template main page, although the code can remain just in case. Let's wait for more dissent/consensus first, in any case. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:04, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::: I think, for most people, we shouldn't keep the age thing (though I support leaving it in the template since so many of us use that template on our user pages). Saul Tigh is a bit of an exception. There's been a considerable amount of time spent on doing math to figure out Tigh's minimum and maximum possible ages. I don't think any of it is guess-work, though I may be forgetting a step (I didn't do the work, just read about it). I think, if we've gone to enough trouble to be reasonably sure based on math, not guessing based on the actors' ages, then we could include it on a Character's page. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:31, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::::Tigh's age mathematics, while good, is still an approximation. "Pi" is not "a little more than 3." The more I see ages, the worse they look. I say to keep the field, yes, as eventually we'll see a birthday in an episode and an exact age will give a reference, but for now, we really don't have diddly-squat. Further, I want to get a standard policy in place (do or do not), and not make Tigh the exception--until another one comes along. They should all age, generally accurately, or not. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:52, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::::::I disapprove of guesses, but Tigh's age can actually be constrained to a fairly narrow field based on on-screen evidence. I think when we have the information, we should supply it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:03, 19 January 2006 (EST)

== "Death" field for Cylons ==

It occurs to me that I was a bit short-sighted when I made the infobox. Indeed, the Cylons don't "die" per se (unless they are away from a Resurrection Ship, which in case they *do* die) and are resurrected. Therefore, I would like to solicit views on how a copy's "death" should be handled in the infobox -- or if we should at all. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:26, 7 March 2006 (CST)

: I think we should note the deaths of any reletively prominant versions that don't have their own articles. Like Doral's suicide bomber version, say, and the Six that Kara fought in Delphi. Maybe not even listing the manner of death, but just an episode link (if you're real curious and it was important enough to link, it's probably in the sumary and maybe even a picture on the episode's page). If a specific version that has its own page dies (like Boomer) we should, of course, note that there. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:35, 7 March 2006 (CST)

==Image Size==
Since Day appears to be altering this, I want to go on record as stating that while I prefer thumb sizes to be at the discretion of the viewer, I think that the fixed-width on the character data template improves the visual consistancy of the site and should be retained. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:27, 14 March 2006 (CST)
:To Day: To make sure that the image stays the same size through out the template mayb eyou should put <nowiki> [[Image:{{{1}}}|200px]]</nowiki> in the template code instead of having someone type it all it. Then all they need is the imagefile name in the field. I did that with Template:Star Data and works pretty well. Could also be done for the any number of templates that have image size requirments. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:36, 22 March 2006 (CST)

== First Introduced ==

I was working on the Star Skeleton template and I just relized. We should have a "First Apperance" field so we know when this Character first showed up in the Series. It be pointed to the Episode. Any thoughts? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:07, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:bump. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 13:23, 26 April 2006 (CDT)
:I suppose that would be nice to have. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 06:48, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

== White Space ==

This template adds a line of blank space to the top of any article that transcludes it. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 20:01, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

== Additional field request ==

Given that both [[Hera Agathon]] and [[Nicholas Tyrol]] are currently labeled
as Cylons, I think it would make a lot of sense to add a "Human-Cylon Hybrid"
tag to the current TOS Cylon and RDM Cylon tags. The hybrids play a distinctly
different role in the series than the Cylons themselves, and I think they
should be marked as such. [[User:sctfn|sctfn]] 19:24, 29 Apr, 2007

: I would tend to agree. Since the template/infoboxes are Shane's babies (in my view anyway), I leave the specifics up to him. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:27, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
:: and boom... done. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:19, 29 April 2007 (CDT)
:::Right now it says "Cylon Hybrid". Could you change that to the more accurate "Human/Cylon Hybrid"? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 04:01, 30 April 2007 (CDT)
::::Given the context, the meaning is clear, but some might think of the baseship Hybrid at first. So changing it wouldn't hurt. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:37, 30 April 2007 (CDT)

== Second picture field ==

There are quite a few major characters with either "younger" versions of themselves seen on screen, such as [[Kara Thrace]] and [[William Adama]] -- or even major characters played by two different actors (like [[Xaviar]]). What I was thinking was adding a picture to the bottom of the infobox, similar to what Memory-Alpha did with its [[MemoryAlpha:Spock|Spock]], [[MemoryAlpha:James Kirk|James Kirk]], and other like articles. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 12:50, 29 December 2007 (CST)
:Fine by me... That might also help with Dr. Zee. I was surprised to see that MA isn't using a template for that (just raw CSS/HTML). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:18, 29 December 2007 (CST)

== Retooled a bit ==

I've retooled this template a bit to a "2.0" version (though I'm sure it's more of a 3.0 or 4.0!), including features for automatic categorization and the inclusion of an icon that denotes the series the character is a part of, athough the categorization bit is why I dove into developing the new version of this template. The template is [[Template:Character Data/2.0|here]] and the [[BW:SAND|sandbox has a sample of template]] in action. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:47, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Helena Cain

2009-01-21T06:35:26Z

Rocky8311: changed her relationship, it sounded like it continued until her death

:''For information on this character's [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] counterpart, see [[Cain (TOS)]].

{{Character Data
|photo=CainH.jpg
|age=49-50<ref>According to the script for "[[Razor]]", young Helena Cain was nine years old at the time of the [[Battle of Tauron]]. See: [[Sources: Helena Cain]].</ref>
|colony=[[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]]
|birthname=Helena Cain
|callsign=
|seen= Pegasus (episode)
|pseen=Pegasus
|death= Shot by [[Gina Inviere]] aboard ''Pegasus'', in Cain's quarters ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).
|parents= [[Saundra Cain|Mother]] and [[Cain (father)|father]] killed in the first [[Cylon War]] <ref name="watcher-forbes">{{cite_web|url=http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2007/11/battlestar-ga-1.html|title='Battlestar Galactica: Razor' cuts to the heart of the matter|date=20 November 2007|accessdate=22 November 2007|last=Ryan|first=Maureen|format=|language=}}</ref>
|siblings= [[Lucy Cain]]† (killed in the first Cylon War)
|children=
|marital status= Previous relationship with Gina Inviere
|role=Commanding Officer, [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''
|rank=Rear Admiral
|actor=[[Michelle Forbes]] [[Kyra Scott]] (young Cain)
|serial=866931<ref>Serial number is from [[:Image:Cain's dogtag serial.jpg|her dogtags]].</ref>
|cylon=
|name=
}}
Admiral '''Helena Cain''' hails from the colony [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]], and is the commanding officer of the [[Mercury class battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' at the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. She is a hard woman, unafraid of making difficult decisions and unflinching in her will to do what she sees as right. These traits sometimes compel her to feel that she has been left no choice but to take controversial, unpopular and morally questionable choices.

==Biography==
===Childhood===
Helena Cain was born during the first [[Cylon War]]. On the last day of the war, Tauron was under attack by Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] and [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Centurion]] ground forces. Her sister [[Lucy Cain]] and her [[Cain (father)|father]] were pinned down in a building under heavy fire. When her father was injured trying to escape, he told Helena to get Lucy to a shelter, before dying. The two made it out of the building, but outside Helena panicked, left Lucy in a field of rubble and ran away to hide in a container. When Cain came out again after the Cylons retreated, she found only her sister's doll on the ground ("[[Razor]]", extended version). These traumatic events were formative for her future.

===Cylon attack and guerrilla warfare===

[[Image:Cain and gina.jpg|thumb|right|Cain dining with [[Gina Inviere]].]]

When ''Pegasus'' is scheduled for an extensive overhaul at the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]], Cain has regular meetings with [[Gina Inviere]], a civilian contractor working for the [[Ministry of Defense]], to work out the details of the retrofit. The two eventually become romantically involved.

Shortly before the [[Cylon attack]], Lieutenant [[Kendra Shaw]] is assigned to the battlestar as Cain's personal aide. When the lieutenant fails to make it to [[CIC]] immediately after her arrival, Cain chews her out in front of the crew, but breaks into laughter after Shaw leaves, showing that she isn't always as hard as she appears to be.

When the Cylons [[Fall of the Scorpion Fleet Shipyards|attack the shipyards]], Cain is in her quarters, working out and going over efficiency reports. She makes it to CIC and immediately orders the battlestar unmoored. When the navigational computer is discovered to be offline and nuclear missiles are inbound, Cain orders a [[blind jump]] to escape certain destruction. With many of her crew dead and the destruction of the Twelve Colonies confirmed, she holds a speech vowing to take revenge on the Cylons. However, in a private dinner with her XO [[Jurgen Belzen]], [[Jack Fisk]], Inviere and Shaw, she promises that she has no intention to unnecessarily waste lives or resources in an emotional quest for revenge.

Shortly later, a Cylon communications relay is detected, which the crew believes to be an easy target. On arrival however, it turns out the target is a Cylon staging area, filled with 15 squadrons of [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]]s. Belzen urges Cain to recover their Vipers and retreat, but instead she seemingly forgets her earlier promise and orders the launch of all remaining fighters, which Belzen refuses to do in the face of such odds. Cain asks the XO for his side arm, and shoots him in the head in front of the crew. She then turned to Fisk and orders him to launch the Vipers, which he does. At the same time, Inviere allows a group of [[Cylon Centurion]]s to board the ship, causing many deaths. Shaw reveals her as a Cylon agent in CIC and Cain orders her arrest. ''Pegasus'' manages to win the [[Battle of the Communications Relay|battle]], but with staggering losses.

Cain is deeply stung by Inviere's betrayal, her feelings toward her erstwhile lover turned into hatred and scorn. She gives [[Alastair Thorne]] free rein in interrogating her for information, suggesting "pain ... degradation, fear, shame." This sets the tone for the interrogations, ultimately leading to measures such as gang rape.

When ''Pegasus'' happens upon a small civilian fleet, Admiral Cain decides to strip it of resources and personnel, including their FTL drives. The civilians, however, refuse the cooperate. Resistance is particularly high on the ''[[Scylla]]''. When a boarding team led by Shaw and Fisk fails to make the civilians cooperate, Cain orders to shoot the families of every conscript who refuses to obey. Shaw fires the first shot and eventually 10 people are killed, thus breaking the resistance. Cain is very impressed by Shaw's actions in the civilian standoff and promotes her to the rank of captain, explaining that Shaw has the qualities of a "razor"; someone who is able to shut down all emotions and inhibitions in battle in order to survive.

Despite the impossible odds, Cain intends to sustain a campaign of guerrilla warfare against the occupying Cylon forces. She then led the battlestar away from the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], following a Cylon fleet that trails what they discovered as the fellow battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'' ("[[Razor]]", "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]").

===Galactica===
Upon meeting up with Commander [[William Adama]]'s [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] six months later, she assumes command and transfers personnel from ''Galactica'' to ''Pegasus'', including [[Lee Adama]] and [[Kara Thrace]], indicating that Adama has let military discipline become too lax. Cain is more interested in fighting the Cylons, seemingly oblivious to the point that she and the ships around her are all that was left of the human race, whose survival is more paramount than offensive assaults. While Adama initially welcomes such attacks against a mysterious Cylon force that followed the Fleet (to stop it from following them), his attitude begins to cool about Cain's very strict and unmerciful leadership.
[[image:caingalact.jpg|left|Admiral Cain, meeting up with the crew of ''Galactica''.|thumb]]

Cain's actions also raise concerns with President [[Laura Roslin]]. Cain recognizes Roslin and her former role as Secretary of Education. After the Fleet command transfer from Adama to Cain, Roslin makes several attempts to call Cain to request supplies for the civilian fleet, but all of Roslin's calls are ignored.

===Court-martial, standoff===
After the suspect fatal assault of one of her crew members, Lieutenant Thorne, Cain arrests Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] and Lieutenant [[Karl Agathon]] and has them flown to ''Pegasus'', under Adama's protest, since traditionally a trial is held on the ship where an incident has occurred. Cain uses ''Galactica'''s log against Adama when he asks for a tribunal; Cain notes that Adama dismissed the last council unilaterally when the verdict did not suit him. Cain summarily court-martials the prisoners herself in a matter of hours, sentencing them to death. Commander Adama is far from pleased, and orders an assault crew to head for ''Pegasus'' to bring his men back. Cain responds by deploying her squadrons of advanced Viper Mark VIIs against Adama's museum collection of Viper Mark IIs in a tense standoff ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

The tense game of chicken that begins is ended by Starbuck, flying the [[Blackbird]] as she returns from her unofficial recon mission on the unknown Cylon ship. Starbuck transmits the pictures she took of the [[Resurrection Ship]] back to ''Pegasus'''s CIC. Upon Thrace's return to ''Pegasus'', Cain is so impressed with her performance that she promotes Thrace to Captain and ''Pegasus'' [[CAG]], replacing the competent but uncreative and inflexible Captain [[Cole Taylor|Taylor]]. Cain tasks Starbuck with planning the joint strike on the Resurrection Ship.

===Attack on the Resurrection Ship, and assassination===
[[Image:Gina-Cain.jpg|thumb|Admiral Cain held at gun-point by [[Gina Inviere|her Cylon prisoner]].]]

After Captain Thrace briefs both Adama, Apollo, and Cain on her plan to attack the Resurrection Ship, Adama pulls Starbuck aside and outlines a plan to assassinate Cain following the attack. At the same time, Cain instructs [[Jack Fisk]] to lead a detachment of marines to "terminate Adama's command" after the battle ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]).

When the moment arrives, neither commander decides to send their execution orders, leaving Thrace and Fisk visibly relieved. Cain survives Adama's plan, ironically, because Adama solicits advice from [[Sharon Agathon|the second copy of Sharon Valerii]], who reminds him of his decommissioning speech that asked whether humanity asked itself if it deserved to survive ([[Miniseries]]). That is, Adama's actions in assassinating Cain would be a good example of why humanity deserved what the Cylons dealt to them so many months ago. Although it may have been due to realizing Adama's value as a commander during the battle, the reasons for Cain staying her hand were never revealed, and remain a topic of debate among fans.

Unfortunately for Cain, shortly after Adama's window to assassinate Cain had passed, [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] helps Inviere escape from the brig. Inviere makes her way to Cain's quarters and shoots Cain at point blank range. A soldier to the last, Cain's final words are "[[Frak]] you."

Cain's funeral is given full military honors, with Fisk and Thrace giving eulogies. Though Thrace only knew Cain briefly, she obviously admired the woman, stating "We were safer with her than we are without." ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]). Several months later, Adama tells his son that he can't find any faults in Cain's tactical decisions, and refuses to pass judgment on her, because he has people to keep him in check when he is in danger of going down a similar path, and never had to go through Cain's situation in the first place ([[Razor]]).

== Notes ==

{{sourcebox}}

=== Original Series nods ===

*Helena Cain is inspired by the character of Commander [[Cain (TOS)|Cain]] from the original ''[[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Battlestar Galactica]]'', portrayed by the late [[Lloyd Bridges]].

*Unlike Commander Cain in the Original Series, Admiral Cain is a superior officer to Commander William Adama. The Original Series's Adama held a higher rank than Cain, and relieved him of command for a time in the two part episode, "[[The Living Legend, Part I|The Living Legend]]".

=== Behind-the-Scenes ===

*Actress Michelle Forbes said on her character, "She’s lost perspective. People ask, ‘Is she insane? Is she psychotic?’ I hope that’s not how she came across because that was never the intention. I think some individuals can appear to be that way, but this is a woman who did what she had to do in order to survive during some very brutal conflicts. Along the way, Cain lost her sense of judgment as well as her sense of reason and rationale. That was all very interesting for me to play. Usually in TV you’re given one characteristic and you dare not stray from that, so it was neat to have such a difficult, fascinating woman to play. In "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I|Resurrection Ship]]" it really comes to light the path of sadism that these people have gone down and we’re fully able to see exactly what happened to this group aboard the Pegasus. There were some pretty difficult choices they had to make, too, in regard to the Cylon prisoner Gina and that whole dynamic." [http://www.greatlink.org/dcisV2.asp?url=http://www.greatlink.org/shownewsitem.asp?item=5201]

*Forbes guest starred as Dara Timicin in the ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: The Next Generation|Star Trek: The Next Generation]]'' episode "[[MemoryAlpha:Half a Life|Half a Life]]" and had a recurring role as Ensign [[MemoryAlpha:Ro Laren|Ro Laren]] during the last three seasons of ''Star Trek: The Next Generation''. ''Battlestar Galactica'' executive producer [[Ronald D. Moore]], also a ''TNG'' veteran, wrote for her character in the episodes "[[MemoryAlpha:Disaster|Disaster]]" and "[[MemoryAlpha:The Next Phase|The Next Phase]]".

=== Production ===

*Cain's given name, Helena, was not spoken in dialogue initially, but was posted in episode summaries on Scifi.com (initially misspelled as "Nelena"). Her name is first spoken by Colonel [[Jurgen Belzen]] in "[[Razor]]".

*Cain's habit of expediting meetings by conducting them without chairs is borrowed from UN Ambassador [[Wikipedia:John R. Bolton|John R. Bolton]] (Source: [[Podcast:Pegasus#Act 2|Podcast:Pegasus]]). Within the show, the lack of chairs is said to stem from her preference to stand because of her back problems ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

=== Separate continuity ===

* In [[Dynamite Entertainment]]'s [[comic]] books, Helena Cain and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' make a one-shot appearance in ''[[Battlestar Galactica: Pegasus]]'', and she is mentioned again in ''[[Battlestar Galactica: Origins 6]]''. In ''Origins 6'', Captain [[Alexa Cain|Alexa "Pugnacious" Cain]] is noted as Helena's mother, who had divorced her husband well before the [[Battle of Tauron]]—the last battle of the First Cylon War. However, "Razor" makes it clear that Helena's mother was named "[[Saundra Cain|Saundra]]", and that she was on [[Hypatia]], [[Tauron]] at the time of that last battle, which is when she died.

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown)'' |title=Commanding Officer, ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''|after=[[Jack Fisk]]}}
{{end box}}

{{Dead Characters}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Cain, Helena}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:Deceased Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:Recurring Guest Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:People from Tauron]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Helena Cain]]
[[fr:Helena Cain]]

Portal:Characters/Selected Character

2007-03-31T19:01:25Z

Rocky8311: others have seen interior of a basestar now

<div style="float:left;margin-right:0.9em">
[[Image:MaggieCrop.jpg|150px|Margaret Edmondson]]
</div>Lt. '''[[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]''' is a female [[Raptor]] [[ECO]] aboard [[battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'', and due to manpower shortages often moonlights as a Raptor pilot. Racetrack tends to have a dark, fairly cynical attitude after the Cylon attack. Racetrack accompanied [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]] on a mission to destroy a Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|Basestar]] in orbit of [[Kobol]] by [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|sneaking inside with a nuclear warhead]], and soon after witnessed Boomer's attempted assasination of Commander [[William Adama]]. Racetrack has unresolved tensions with fellow Raptor ECO [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]. Later, it was Racetrack who discovered the habitable planet [[New Caprica]], when her Raptor [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|strayed from a rescue mission]].

Crossroads, Part II

2007-03-31T18:51:15Z

Rocky8311: /* Noteworthy Dialogue */ sp

{{Episode Data
| title= Crossroads, Part II
| image= 3x20-CrossroadsPartII-BaltarSixHera.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 20
| guests=
| writer= [[Mark Verheiden]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production= 320
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-03-25
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| extra= '''Season Finale - 50 Minute Episode'''
| prev= [[Crossroads, Part I]]
| next= '''TBA'''
| itunes= http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=VWbyALbmqZY&offerid=78941&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%253A%252F%252Fphobos.apple.com%252FWebObjects%252FMZStore.woa%252Fwa%252FviewTVSeason%253Fi%253D219291495%2526id%253D200852806%2526s%253D143441%2526partnerId%253D30
}}

== Overview ==
:''As Gaeta testifies against Baltar about the execution list that the accused signed on New Caprica, Roslin finds a disturbing link between her dreams and the [[Opera House]] on Kobol. Lee Adama turns around the trial with an unusual move, and several people make a disturbing discovery about themselves.''

== Summary ==

===Teaser===
*[[Admiral Adama]] shaves, cutting himself when the lights flicker.
*[[Laura Roslin]] calls, seeking a bit of humorous motivation to get out of bed and face the [[Crossroads, Part I|trial]] again, which she does not relish.
*After one feeble attempt, Adama manages "get your fat, lazy ass out of that rack, Roslin!" which makes Roslin laugh and give a heartfelt thank you. Adama tells her, "Don't let 'em see you sweat, Laura."
*[[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]] are sexually engaged when she hears a [[The Music|strange music]]. When she notes it to Anders, he's surprised at the revelation, having heard it before himself.
*[[Diana Seelix]] knocks on the duty locker door and Anders opens it. An uncomfortable silence between Seelix, Anders and Foster begins.
*[[Galen Tyrol]] is half-asleep, humming the music. He leaves his bed and quarters and goes to a section of ventilation to hear the music elsewhere on ''[[Galactica]]''.
*[[Lee Adama]] recommends a mistrial for [[Gaius Baltar]], using his grandfather's written advice, believing that their successes are actually worsening the issue. Baltar is incensed at the suggestion, believing that Adama wants to leave the case.
*[[Romo Lampkin]], Baltar's attorney, is inclined to agree with Adama, but young Adama's comment about his father's words about the "treacherous" Baltar leaves him to ponder.
*Baltar doesn't want to repeat the terror he's experienced in the time before the trial.
*[[Racetrack]] is training Seelix, Anders, and other [[Raptor]] [[nugget]]s, when Anders overhears Chief Tyrol humming. Together, they realize that the melody feels like something out of childhood, and they hear only a part of the melody.
*Before they can analyze further, Racetrack yells for Anders to return to the group.

===Act 1===
*Roslin takes [[diloxin]] treatment in [[sickbay]]. As she lies down and dreams, she experiences the same dream as [[Sharon Agathon]], also in sickbay with [[Hera Agathon|her daughter]], and both scream simultaneously. The two ask to talk privately.
*Later, Roslin and Sharon Agathon meet with [[Caprica-Six]], who has also experienced the dreams. When asked why Six is trying to reach Hera, she says that she felt she had to protect her "with (my) life."
*[[Saul Tigh]] tells Admiral Adama about the music. The admiral tells Tigh that he will look into it later as he leaves for court.
*The trial resumes. Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] is on the stand. The [[Precipice|execution order]] from [[New Caprica]] is admitted as evidence by [[Cassidy]], the prosecutor.
*Gaeta lies, as viewers are shown the actual events where Baltar is forced to sign at gunpoint, where Gaeta says that Baltar did not resist.
*Lampkin chooses not to cross-examine, to Baltar's great horror. The prosecution rests.

===Act 2===
*After a recess, the defense begins its case.
*Lampkin motions for a mistrial, as Baltar objects, due to prejudicial comments by Admiral Adama four days before. He asks for Mr. Lee Adama to take the stand.
*The prosecuting attorney strongly objects, but after Lampkin warns of much case law (he can think of seven examples off the top of his head) that permits such a procedure, the tribunal allows Mr. Adama to testify.
*Mr. Adama refuses to confirm his father's comments. As Lampkin tries to intimidate Mr. Adama, he restates, asking if Baltar deserves a fair trial.
*Asked why, Mr. Adama believes Baltar is not guilty, but Admiral Adama asks for the questioning to continue.
*Pressed for more clarification, Mr. Adama states that Baltar did not commit treason. He asks the tribunal what anyone else would do in that situation. He notes that all other conspirators and resistance fighters were pardoned, as were many, many other mistakes of the past, from [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|Roslin]], to [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|Admiral Adama]], and himself in the destruction of the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' and running from [[New Caprica]], recommending never to return with [[Pegasus (RDM)|his battlestar]].
*Mr. Adama believes that new laws are needed because they are less of a civilization now and more of a gang. He states that, unlike everyone else, Baltar is being prosecuted because of his arrogance and other considerable character flaws and is not being accorded the same forgiveness as others.
*Adama believes that the trial is built on emotions and shame from the events of New Caprica, and the shame of those that ran away. Mr. Adama looks to his father as he speaks.
*He believes that Baltar is a scapegoat for all the guilt of the people.
*The prosecuting attorney does not cross-examine, and the defense rests.
*The tribunal steps out to deliberate as Roslin steps down to congratulate Cassidy for her work.

===Act 3===
*Baltar is acquitted, 3 votes to 2 against. Yelling turns into a riot in the gallery as marines try to get Baltar to safety while the [[Fleet News Service|press]] tries to interview many players.
*Baltar is happily discussing the victory but makes a mistake in insulting Admiral Adama. Lee Adama warns him, "Don't push it, doctor."
*When Baltar asks Lampkin to aid him in a book tour and other profitable matters, Lampkin tells him that his association with Baltar is done.
*Baltar suddenly realizes that, despite his apparent freedom, he is a man without a country, without work, friends, or even quarters.
*Lampkin and Mr. Adama say their goodbyes. Lee Adama, on seeing Lampkin walking away without his cane, realizes that he had used the cane as yet another psychological tactic.
*Gaius Baltar tries to be inconspicuous as he moves files elsewhere, but all eyes are on him.
*Roslin and Admiral Adama speak in [[CIC]]. She is incensed at the verdict. Adama reminds Roslin that "not guilty" does not mean "innocent."
*Roslin assumes that Adama cast a guilty vote, when, to Roslin's shock and anger, the admiral states he voted not guilty, feeling that the prosecution did not hold their case.
*Adama tells Roslin that no one is asking anyone to forgive or forget, but they must look to the future.
*Adama orders the last jump to the [[Ionian nebula]]. The jump is successful, and Adama orders a [[DRADIS]] scan when Roslin becomes immediately dazed and stunned.
*As Admiral Adama looks to Roslin to check on her health, main power on every ship of the Fleet fails, leaving each one, including ''Galactica'', drifting dangerously close to each other.

===Act 4===
*Pilots scramble with [[flashlight]]s to their stations while CIC tries to get to auxiliary power, but battery power is the best they can muster.
*The scene shifts to a dream in the [[Opera House]] again, with Gaius Baltar holding Hera and Caprica-Six next to him. Above them, the glowing images of the [[Final Five]] appear. Caprica-Six awakens from the dream.
*Baltar tries to take advantage of the darkness and chaos when three women confront him. Frightened, Baltar is told by the women that they will take him to safety.
*The mysterious music gets louder, and Tigh, Galen Tyrol, Tory Foster and Anders begin quoting lyrics from an [[The Music|increasingly coherent melody]].
*As viewers watch, the [[The Music|music]] becomes louder and more dynamic. Each of the four are drawn to the gym on ''Galactica'', where they discover each other. Each are stunned and shocked.
*Tyrol believes the impossible; that all of them are [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. Each of them begin to hum the music, together, coherently, in full. Tigh angrily stops them and closes the hatches while they talk.
*Tigh states his time in service, and his history, trying to believe that none of it was in vain. Anders objects as well.
*As power is restored, DRADIS picks up a large Cylon fleet coming their way. [[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]] manage to scramble. [[Helo]], as acting XO, notes the mass power outage will mean that it will take at least 20 minutes for the [[FTL]] jump drives on the civilian ships to be ready. The admiral doesn't believe they have the time.
*In the closed room, Tigh states that, despite what they believe about themselves, that he is going to do his job as a Colonial officer, and heads to CIC. The others follow suit.
*The hangar deck is abuzz with activity as Chief Tyrol tries to resume his usual work.
*Lee Adama, after watching other pilots run from duty lockers to flight preparation, heads there himself to prep.
*Admiral Adama orders the preparation of the battlestar's nuclear weapons. Tigh reports on station, keeping his face stony, as does Tory Foster, offering any help to President Roslin.
*The Vipers launch. [[Helo]] is confused about the pilot of Viper 3.
*Apollo, identifying himself in Viper 3, picks up a target on his [[Viper Mark VII|Viper's]] DRADIS, and tracks it down. As he looks around, an image of a [[Viper Mark II]] keeps appearing and disappearing in the clouds and on DRADIS. The image buzzes overhead and alarms the pilot momentarily.
*Pulling alongside in her undamaged Viper, [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] greets Apollo. She tells him not to "freak out," that it really is her.
*The [[Maelstrom|believed-dead]] pilot tells Apollo that she has been to [[Earth]], and that she can guide the Fleet there.
*The music's mood and intensity changes from a [[w:sitar|sitar]] blend into an extremely loud rock-fusion version.
*As the music continues to play, the episode concludes as the shot pulls swiftly and violently away from Apollo and Starbuck's Viper, past the Colonial fleet, the Cylon fleet and several planets to show an arm of the galaxy.
*The shot suddenly zooms forward and through another nearby galactic arm to the familiar blue-green planet of Earth, showing what is known to viewers as the North American continent (in its current shape, long after the tectonic drift that split the [[w:Pangaea|Pangaea]] super-continent millions of years earlier in the planet's history). Also, due to the orbital altitude of the vantage point and that all visible landmasses are in sunlight no trace of a highly advance technological civilization can be detected by visual means even if it existed.

== Questions ==
* What is the source of the music?
* Are we supposed to interpret the music as the actual Dylan song, and therefore a connection to Earth? ([[#Official Statements|Answer]])
* Is [[Saul Tigh]] the oldest [[humanoid Cylon]] model?
* Who is the twelfth Cylon?
* Did the Cylons develop humanoid models before the first [[Cylon War]]? ([[#Official Statements|Answer]])
* Why does [[Caprica Six]] feel the need to protect [[Hera]] with her life?
* How are [[Laura Roslin]], [[Hera]], [[Sharon Agathon]], and [[Caprica Six]] spiritually connected, and what is the nature of said connection?
* Assuming they choose to reveal their true natures, how will those close to the four revealed Cylons react when they learn the truth about their friends and loved ones? Can they reveal their natures?
* With the revelation that they are Cylons, will their allegiances to the Colonials change or will they continue to identify themselves as humans?
* Will Colonel Tigh's hatred of the Cylons persist in light of his discovery of his Cylon nature?
* Will Cally's hatred of the Cylons persist if she discovers that her husband is a Cylon and that [[Nicholas Tyrol|her son]] is a human-Cylon hybrid?
* What is the importance of the [[Opera House]]?
* Who are the women who spirit [[Gaius Baltar]] to safety and what are their plans?
* What is the current state of [[Earth]]?
* How far is the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] away from the Solar System?
* What phenomenon causes the simultaneous power loss and equally simultaneous power restoration throughout the Fleet after jumping to the [[Ionian nebula]]? Are the pursuing Cylons also affected?
* Why does the Fleet jump into the nebula when it is obvious that the Cylons were following them, had probably inferred their trajectory, and could well set up a trap?
* As [[William Adama]] is the deciding vote for Baltar's 'not guilty' verdict, how will this act (and [[Lee Adama]]'s testimony) affect their relationship with each other?
* How will [[Kara Thrace]]'s "resurrection" from the dead be viewed by the Colonials?
* What convinces [[Laura Roslin]] to take the [[diloxin]] treatments she scoffed earlier?
* Will Roslin's physical appearance change drastically because of her cancer treatments?
* How were Kara Thrace and her [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]], unharmed and without any explicable means, able to survive the events of "[[Maelstrom]]" and transport from the "interior" of a gas planet to Earth and then to the Ionian nebula within a relatively short span of time?
* Does Apollo truly see Starbuck in a Viper or has she become an apparition, similar in nature to Baltar's internal Six?
* Did the Six (in "[[Torn]]") say that the [[Final Five]] are "complicated" because they aren't just "deeper" cover agents but rebels or otherwise outcasts from Cylon society? Or are she and the known 7 the outcasts?
* If any of the Final Five were to die, would they be resurrected in a Cylon Resurrection Ship?
* Are any of their histories, such as Tigh's 40 years of service and Tyrol's memories of his parents, true? ([[#Official Statements|Answer]])
* Do the [[final five]] have the same physiology as the other seven, such as their innate immunology, the ability to interface with computer equipment via [[Cylon data port|optical link]], and general inability to conceive children?
* Will the six other active Cylon models discover the identities of the final five?
* Given the small number of survivors from the Colonies, were the members of the final five preprogrammed in order to facilitate their escape with the Fleet?
* Is there any significance to Roslin's disorientation after the jump?
* Did other copies of the newly-revealed Cylons exist in the Colonies, or are the ones aboard ''Galactica'' the only versions?
* Why does Tigh ask "What about Ellen?" in the midst of stating his memories of two Cylon Wars and two decades of service?
* Is Tyrol a tougher model of Cylon that isn't vulnerable to whatever effect the storm at [[Ragnar Anchorage]] had on the other models in the [[Miniseries]], or is there some other explanation for why he showed no ill effects from the storm despite being aboard the Anchorage much longer than Doral was?
* What does Starbuck know that makes her assure Apollo "It's gonna be OK" when a Cylon fleet is closing fast?
* Does Baltar also see the vision of himself in the [[Opera House]] shared by the others?
* Why weren't Tyrol or Tigh affected by the virus that killed the other Cylons in "[[Torn]]" and "[[A Measure of Salvation]]"?

== Analysis ==

* With the revelation that [[Galen Tyrol]] is a [[Humanoid Cylon|Cylon]], the second known Human-Cylon hybrid known to exist is in the form of [[Nicholas Tyrol]]. His birth reinforces the Cylon belief that love is a necessary component to successful procreation. This would make one male and one female hybrid born to date. There may be significant biological differences between the two hybrids; one was carried to term by a human while the other was carried to term by a Cylon.
* The reason for Tyrol's discovery of the [[Temple of Five]] on the [[algae planet]] is better explained here, however it is clearly apparent that his conscious mind is unable to rationalize the reason he discovers it.
* It is also reaffirmed that none of the original seven are aware of the final five. As demonstrated by [[Sharon Valerii]]'s lack of knowledge about Galen Tyrol's true nature during her relationship with him in [[Season 1 (2004-05)|Season 1]] and the torture of Saul Tigh on New Caprica by the Cylons.
* Saul Tigh has been known to physically exist for roughly 23 years as of this episode. While Tigh claims to have fought in the first Cylon War, aside from likely military documentation about his service in the war, there are no supporting non-Cylon witnesses to support his claim. This predates the two-year marker previously indicated by two known infiltrators, [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii]].
* The final scene of the episode depicts Earth, notably the North America content, definitively indicating the existence of this planet.
* As described by Tyrol when the four meet, the music and the Fleet's arrival to the nebula set off a switch within the minds of the four Cylons. However, unlike Boomer, their Cylon natures did not come with a different set of memories or personality.
* The four new Cylons all hold very important or potentially important roles within the Fleet. Tigh is the right hand man for Adama. Foster is the right hand woman for Roslin. Tyrol is the chief in charge of all military maintenance and repairs on the Vipers and Raptors, and is also head of the Colonial labor union. Anders is a new pilot amongst the soldiers of the Fleet and previously a key figure in the resistance movements on both Caprica and New Caprica.
* According to Lampkin, Joseph Adama was a brilliant defense attorney, but not an honest man. This may allude to one of the reasons why Lampkin despised Joseph Adama, but explains Lampkin's tactics as he also respected Joseph as a mentor.
* Lee Adama finally realizes the full extent of how he was manipulated once he sees Lampkin walk off on his own with no cane. Lampkin's ruse was successful in putting a wedge between the Adamas to allow Baltar to be pronounced not guilty.
* Another tendency for the younger Adama is that when faced with the option of completely severing and opposing his father, he will relent and attempt to return to his father's good graces. This has been seen when Lee Adama was given the chance to denounce his father to the Fleet during the military coup, but eventually told Zarek that he couldn't.
* Ironically, it was Roslin who originally wanted Lee Adama to lead a panel to determine who is fit to be on the tribunal. Her reasons being that she believed Lee Adama has a sense of right and wrong that others don't have at that time. Her belief about Lee comes back to haunt her as he rightly pointed out that her broad forgiveness policy for all within the Fleet after the second Exodus should be applied to Baltar as well. Her fear and knowledge of Baltar's involvement with the genocide of the Colonies has clouded her judgment to extend her original act of grace to Baltar.
* Lampkin, apparently was telling the truth that all he had wanted was to have the glory of being the attorney for the most hated man of the Fleet. Once his job is accomplished, he cleans his hands of Baltar, and makes it clear that besides the trial, he does not want to be associated with Baltar.
* Starbuck's last words in the episode allude back to "[[Maelstrom]]" as she is taking on the role of the [[Aurora, Goddess of the Dawn|Aurora]] idol that she gave to Adama before her "death". She claims that, like the idol placed on the model ship, she will be leading the way to Earth.
* Baltar's determined investigation into whether he was one of the Final Five was rooted in a desperation of figuring out who he was. For Baltar, if he were a Cylon, then he never was a traitor to his people and his self-identity would be cemented forever. However, for the four newly discovered Cylons, the revelation of their underlying natures leave them confused and their self-identity fundamentally shaken. While Baltar would have embraced this revelation with joy, the four new Cylons tremble with horror.
* The loss of Tigh's eye on [[New Caprica]] now has a kind of dark humor to it, as the [[Cylon Centurion|Centurions]] on both the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original]] and [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined]] Series are characterized by having only a single eye.
* Tigh states that if he dies today, he will be remembered as a human officer of the Fleet and a patriot. But if death for the Final Five is similar to that of the other humanoid Cylon models, if he dies he will be downloaded into a new body, surrounded by Cylons intending to manipulate him to their side or box his consciousness, and should he ever come in contact with those who knew him as a human they would instantly regard him as a Cylon and therefore an enemy.
* If the Final Five are capable of resurrecting and assuming that Kara Thrace is the last of them, this could provide an explanation for how she comes to the Ionian nebula (assuming her to be the physical Kara Thrace and not some manner of hallucination or projection). Her Viper could have been provided in the same way as the Raptor Baltar uses to get to the disabled basestar in "[[Torn]]".

== Notes ==
* Four of the "[[Final Five]]" are revealed to be [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Samuel Anders]], [[Saul Tigh]], and [[Tory Foster]].
* Lee Adama points out a string of incidents throughout the series that would have resulted in serious consequences under normal circumstances, but where the persons involved weren't punished: his destruction of the ''Olympic Carrier'' ([[33]]), William Adama's coup against Roslin, Lee putting a weapon to Colonel Tigh's head and supporting a munity ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]), Helo and Chief Tyrol killing Lt. [[Thorne]] ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]), Tigh's use of suicide bombers on New Caprica ([[Occupation]]), people supporting the Cylons on New Caprica ([[Collaborators]]).
* Bob Dylan stated his song "[[w:All_Along_The_Watchtower|All Along the Watchtower]]" is better understood when viewed in reverse order. This song has been covered by numerous artists with Jimi Hendrix recording the definitive version. The song's [http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/watchtower.html lyrics] can be interpreted as holding many parallels to the situation that Tigh, Anders, Tyrol, and Foster find themselves in.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''Lt. '''[[Felix Gaeta]]''' has just commited [[w:perjury|perjury]] on whether Baltar was forced to sign the order of execution or not. Prosecutor [[Cassidy]] puts the document Baltar signed in evidence and on the defense table in front of Baltar:''
: '''Baltar:''' Get that out of my face before I....! (He grabs the document on the table and crumples it slightly and flings it away.)
: '''Lee:''' "Gaius, Gaius, we'll get him in the cross."
: '''Judge Franks''': Counselor will you control your client!:
: '''Baltar (to the judge):''' Look, Its no secret....
: '''Romo:''' Quiet!!
: '''Baltar:''' ...the whole fleet knows that this man tried to stab me through the neck... (to Felix) ...AND YOU MISSED!! BUTTERFINGERS!!!

* ''[[Saul Tigh]], [[Tory Foster]], [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] decide what to do now they know they're Cylons:''
: '''Felix Gaeta''': (over the intercom) Inbound Cylon Fleet. I repeat. Action stations, action stations. Set condition one throughout the ship. This is not a drill.
: '''Tory Foster''': My Gods, what are we going do?
: '''Saul Tigh''': The ship is under attack, we do our jobs. Report to your stations.
: '''Galen Tyrol''': Report to Stations?
: '''Saul Tigh''': My name is Saul Tigh, I am an officer in the Colonial Fleet. Whatever else I am, whatever else it means, that's the man I want to be. And if I die today, that's the man I'll be.
* ''[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] pulls alongside [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] in her undamaged Viper:''
: '''Starbuck''': Hi, Lee.
: '''Apollo''': (his eyes widen in disbelief) Kara?
: '''Starbuck''': Dont freak out, it really is me (laughs). It's going to be okay. I've been to Earth. I know where it is. And I'm going to take us there.

Prior to the clarification of what the song is, two the four Cylons ([[Saul Tigh]] and [[Samuel Anders]]) each speak a line of the lyrics in conversational context:
* ''While Anders is supposed to be learning about Raptor flight systems during a pilot training session, he catches Chief Tyrol humming the tune and asks him about it. When Racetrack, who is the training officer, sees Anders off talking to the Chief:''
: '''Racetrack''': Yo, Anders! Do you need a frakking invitation? MOVE IT!
: '''Anders''': Alright. '''''No reason to get excited.'''''
* ''Tigh and [[William Adama]] discuss the music Tigh hears:''
: '''Saul Tigh''': You'll look into it? You'll look into it? I am here telling you there is Cylon sabotage aboard our ship.
: '''William Adama''': Sabotage? With music?
: '''Saul Tigh''': I know, I know. I can't quite understand it myself. '''''There's too much confusion.'''''

== Official Statements ==

* ''[[Jamie Bamber]] discusses the finale:''
: It is a different finale in the sense that the previous ones have been about fragmenting the characters and spreading them all over different parts of space, and this one, everyone is really on board ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. Every major character is on ''Galactica'', and the stuff going on down on ''Galactica'' is where the drama is.<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting=%7BAC4FC1D4-115F-457C-8E4A-01A539D77D39%7D|title=''Galactica'''s Jamie Bamber Visits a Heavenly ''Ghost''|date=2007-02-23|accessdate=2007-02-23|last=Cohn|first=Angel|format=|language=}}</ref>
* ''SciFi.com Forums Admin discusses the running time:''
: The Sunday, March 25, season finale of ''Battlestar Galactica'' will run five minutes longer than usual. If you plan on recording the episode, set your DVR or VCR to continue for five to 10 minutes after the end of the hour so you do not miss anything.<ref>{{cite_news|first=|last=|url=http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2266869|title=BSG Season Finale on March 25 will run 5 minutes overtime|publisher=|page=|date=2007-03-07|accessdate=2007-03-08|language=English}}</ref>
* Bear McCreary discusses the use of the [[w:Bob Dylan|Bob Dylan]] song:
: ''I learned that the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source.''<ref>Bear McCreary's blog, {{cite_web|url=http://www.bearmccreary.com/html/blog/blogmain.htm|title="Crossroads, Pt. II"|date=2007-03-25|accessdate=2007-03-27}}</ref>
*RDM has confirmed in [http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm this] interview that Tyrol, Tigh, Tory, and Anders are indeed Cylons and members of the Final Five. When asked whether Starbuck was real or a hallucination, he did not provide a conclusive answer. Also in that interview he states that Tigh "fought in two wars."
*In [http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2270103&st=0 20 Answers] RDM states that the issues regarding Tigh's service in CW1 has a complex rationale already built out from "a lot of time and effort," strongly implying that it is not simply a false memory.

== Guest Stars ==

*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as [[Dr. Cottle]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Chelah Horsdal]] as [[Cassidy]]
*[[Katee Sackhoff]] as [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
*[[Jen Halley]] as [[Diana Seelix]]
*[[Brad Dryborough]] as [[Hoshi]]
*[[Alison Matthews]] as [[Karen Fallbrook|Fallbrook]]
*[[Susan Hogan]] as [[Doyle Franks]]
*[[Stephen Holmes]] as Reporter #2
*[[Keegan Connor Tracy]] as [[Young Woman]]
*[[William Samples]] as Judge #2
*[[Lily Duong-Walton]] as [[Hera Agathon]] (uncredited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Crossroads, Part II]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Crossroads, Part II]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Crossroads, Part II]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Crossroads, Part II

2007-03-31T18:49:29Z

Rocky8311: /* Teaser */

{{Episode Data
| title= Crossroads, Part II
| image= 3x20-CrossroadsPartII-BaltarSixHera.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 20
| guests=
| writer= [[Mark Verheiden]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production= 320
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-03-25
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| extra= '''Season Finale - 50 Minute Episode'''
| prev= [[Crossroads, Part I]]
| next= '''TBA'''
| itunes= http://click.linksynergy.com/fs-bin/stat?id=VWbyALbmqZY&offerid=78941&type=3&subid=0&tmpid=1826&RD_PARM1=http%253A%252F%252Fphobos.apple.com%252FWebObjects%252FMZStore.woa%252Fwa%252FviewTVSeason%253Fi%253D219291495%2526id%253D200852806%2526s%253D143441%2526partnerId%253D30
}}

== Overview ==
:''As Gaeta testifies against Baltar about the execution list that the accused signed on New Caprica, Roslin finds a disturbing link between her dreams and the [[Opera House]] on Kobol. Lee Adama turns around the trial with an unusual move, and several people make a disturbing discovery about themselves.''

== Summary ==

===Teaser===
*[[Admiral Adama]] shaves, cutting himself when the lights flicker.
*[[Laura Roslin]] calls, seeking a bit of humorous motivation to get out of bed and face the [[Crossroads, Part I|trial]] again, which she does not relish.
*After one feeble attempt, Adama manages "get your fat, lazy ass out of that rack, Roslin!" which makes Roslin laugh and give a heartfelt thank you. Adama tells her, "Don't let 'em see you sweat, Laura."
*[[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]] are sexually engaged when she hears a [[The Music|strange music]]. When she notes it to Anders, he's surprised at the revelation, having heard it before himself.
*[[Diana Seelix]] knocks on the duty locker door and Anders opens it. An uncomfortable silence between Seelix, Anders and Foster begins.
*[[Galen Tyrol]] is half-asleep, humming the music. He leaves his bed and quarters and goes to a section of ventilation to hear the music elsewhere on ''[[Galactica]]''.
*[[Lee Adama]] recommends a mistrial for [[Gaius Baltar]], using his grandfather's written advice, believing that their successes are actually worsening the issue. Baltar is incensed at the suggestion, believing that Adama wants to leave the case.
*[[Romo Lampkin]], Baltar's attorney, is inclined to agree with Adama, but young Adama's comment about his father's words about the "treacherous" Baltar leaves him to ponder.
*Baltar doesn't want to repeat the terror he's experienced in the time before the trial.
*[[Racetrack]] is training Seelix, Anders, and other [[Raptor]] [[nugget]]s, when Anders overhears Chief Tyrol humming. Together, they realize that the melody feels like something out of childhood, and they hear only a part of the melody.
*Before they can analyze further, Racetrack yells for Anders to return to the group.

===Act 1===
*Roslin takes [[diloxin]] treatment in [[sickbay]]. As she lies down and dreams, she experiences the same dream as [[Sharon Agathon]], also in sickbay with [[Hera Agathon|her daughter]], and both scream simultaneously. The two ask to talk privately.
*Later, Roslin and Sharon Agathon meet with [[Caprica-Six]], who has also experienced the dreams. When asked why Six is trying to reach Hera, she says that she felt she had to protect her "with (my) life."
*[[Saul Tigh]] tells Admiral Adama about the music. The admiral tells Tigh that he will look into it later as he leaves for court.
*The trial resumes. Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] is on the stand. The [[Precipice|execution order]] from [[New Caprica]] is admitted as evidence by [[Cassidy]], the prosecutor.
*Gaeta lies, as viewers are shown the actual events where Baltar is forced to sign at gunpoint, where Gaeta says that Baltar did not resist.
*Lampkin chooses not to cross-examine, to Baltar's great horror. The prosecution rests.

===Act 2===
*After a recess, the defense begins its case.
*Lampkin motions for a mistrial, as Baltar objects, due to prejudicial comments by Admiral Adama four days before. He asks for Mr. Lee Adama to take the stand.
*The prosecuting attorney strongly objects, but after Lampkin warns of much case law (he can think of seven examples off the top of his head) that permits such a procedure, the tribunal allows Mr. Adama to testify.
*Mr. Adama refuses to confirm his father's comments. As Lampkin tries to intimidate Mr. Adama, he restates, asking if Baltar deserves a fair trial.
*Asked why, Mr. Adama believes Baltar is not guilty, but Admiral Adama asks for the questioning to continue.
*Pressed for more clarification, Mr. Adama states that Baltar did not commit treason. He asks the tribunal what anyone else would do in that situation. He notes that all other conspirators and resistance fighters were pardoned, as were many, many other mistakes of the past, from [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|Roslin]], to [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|Admiral Adama]], and himself in the destruction of the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' and running from [[New Caprica]], recommending never to return with [[Pegasus (RDM)|his battlestar]].
*Mr. Adama believes that new laws are needed because they are less of a civilization now and more of a gang. He states that, unlike everyone else, Baltar is being prosecuted because of his arrogance and other considerable character flaws and is not being accorded the same forgiveness as others.
*Adama believes that the trial is built on emotions and shame from the events of New Caprica, and the shame of those that ran away. Mr. Adama looks to his father as he speaks.
*He believes that Baltar is a scapegoat for all the guilt of the people.
*The prosecuting attorney does not cross-examine, and the defense rests.
*The tribunal steps out to deliberate as Roslin steps down to congratulate Cassidy for her work.

===Act 3===
*Baltar is acquitted, 3 votes to 2 against. Yelling turns into a riot in the gallery as marines try to get Baltar to safety while the [[Fleet News Service|press]] tries to interview many players.
*Baltar is happily discussing the victory but makes a mistake in insulting Admiral Adama. Lee Adama warns him, "Don't push it, doctor."
*When Baltar asks Lampkin to aid him in a book tour and other profitable matters, Lampkin tells him that his association with Baltar is done.
*Baltar suddenly realizes that, despite his apparent freedom, he is a man without a country, without work, friends, or even quarters.
*Lampkin and Mr. Adama say their goodbyes. Lee Adama, on seeing Lampkin walking away without his cane, realizes that he had used the cane as yet another psychological tactic.
*Gaius Baltar tries to be inconspicuous as he moves files elsewhere, but all eyes are on him.
*Roslin and Admiral Adama speak in [[CIC]]. She is incensed at the verdict. Adama reminds Roslin that "not guilty" does not mean "innocent."
*Roslin assumes that Adama cast a guilty vote, when, to Roslin's shock and anger, the admiral states he voted not guilty, feeling that the prosecution did not hold their case.
*Adama tells Roslin that no one is asking anyone to forgive or forget, but they must look to the future.
*Adama orders the last jump to the [[Ionian nebula]]. The jump is successful, and Adama orders a [[DRADIS]] scan when Roslin becomes immediately dazed and stunned.
*As Admiral Adama looks to Roslin to check on her health, main power on every ship of the Fleet fails, leaving each one, including ''Galactica'', drifting dangerously close to each other.

===Act 4===
*Pilots scramble with [[flashlight]]s to their stations while CIC tries to get to auxiliary power, but battery power is the best they can muster.
*The scene shifts to a dream in the [[Opera House]] again, with Gaius Baltar holding Hera and Caprica-Six next to him. Above them, the glowing images of the [[Final Five]] appear. Caprica-Six awakens from the dream.
*Baltar tries to take advantage of the darkness and chaos when three women confront him. Frightened, Baltar is told by the women that they will take him to safety.
*The mysterious music gets louder, and Tigh, Galen Tyrol, Tory Foster and Anders begin quoting lyrics from an [[The Music|increasingly coherent melody]].
*As viewers watch, the [[The Music|music]] becomes louder and more dynamic. Each of the four are drawn to the gym on ''Galactica'', where they discover each other. Each are stunned and shocked.
*Tyrol believes the impossible; that all of them are [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. Each of them begin to hum the music, together, coherently, in full. Tigh angrily stops them and closes the hatches while they talk.
*Tigh states his time in service, and his history, trying to believe that none of it was in vain. Anders objects as well.
*As power is restored, DRADIS picks up a large Cylon fleet coming their way. [[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]] manage to scramble. [[Helo]], as acting XO, notes the mass power outage will mean that it will take at least 20 minutes for the [[FTL]] jump drives on the civilian ships to be ready. The admiral doesn't believe they have the time.
*In the closed room, Tigh states that, despite what they believe about themselves, that he is going to do his job as a Colonial officer, and heads to CIC. The others follow suit.
*The hangar deck is abuzz with activity as Chief Tyrol tries to resume his usual work.
*Lee Adama, after watching other pilots run from duty lockers to flight preparation, heads there himself to prep.
*Admiral Adama orders the preparation of the battlestar's nuclear weapons. Tigh reports on station, keeping his face stony, as does Tory Foster, offering any help to President Roslin.
*The Vipers launch. [[Helo]] is confused about the pilot of Viper 3.
*Apollo, identifying himself in Viper 3, picks up a target on his [[Viper Mark VII|Viper's]] DRADIS, and tracks it down. As he looks around, an image of a [[Viper Mark II]] keeps appearing and disappearing in the clouds and on DRADIS. The image buzzes overhead and alarms the pilot momentarily.
*Pulling alongside in her undamaged Viper, [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] greets Apollo. She tells him not to "freak out," that it really is her.
*The [[Maelstrom|believed-dead]] pilot tells Apollo that she has been to [[Earth]], and that she can guide the Fleet there.
*The music's mood and intensity changes from a [[w:sitar|sitar]] blend into an extremely loud rock-fusion version.
*As the music continues to play, the episode concludes as the shot pulls swiftly and violently away from Apollo and Starbuck's Viper, past the Colonial fleet, the Cylon fleet and several planets to show an arm of the galaxy.
*The shot suddenly zooms forward and through another nearby galactic arm to the familiar blue-green planet of Earth, showing what is known to viewers as the North American continent (in its current shape, long after the tectonic drift that split the [[w:Pangaea|Pangaea]] super-continent millions of years earlier in the planet's history). Also, due to the orbital altitude of the vantage point and that all visible landmasses are in sunlight no trace of a highly advance technological civilization can be detected by visual means even if it existed.

== Questions ==
* What is the source of the music?
* Are we supposed to interpret the music as the actual Dylan song, and therefore a connection to Earth? ([[#Official Statements|Answer]])
* Is [[Saul Tigh]] the oldest [[humanoid Cylon]] model?
* Who is the twelfth Cylon?
* Did the Cylons develop humanoid models before the first [[Cylon War]]? ([[#Official Statements|Answer]])
* Why does [[Caprica Six]] feel the need to protect [[Hera]] with her life?
* How are [[Laura Roslin]], [[Hera]], [[Sharon Agathon]], and [[Caprica Six]] spiritually connected, and what is the nature of said connection?
* Assuming they choose to reveal their true natures, how will those close to the four revealed Cylons react when they learn the truth about their friends and loved ones? Can they reveal their natures?
* With the revelation that they are Cylons, will their allegiances to the Colonials change or will they continue to identify themselves as humans?
* Will Colonel Tigh's hatred of the Cylons persist in light of his discovery of his Cylon nature?
* Will Cally's hatred of the Cylons persist if she discovers that her husband is a Cylon and that [[Nicholas Tyrol|her son]] is a human-Cylon hybrid?
* What is the importance of the [[Opera House]]?
* Who are the women who spirit [[Gaius Baltar]] to safety and what are their plans?
* What is the current state of [[Earth]]?
* How far is the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] away from the Solar System?
* What phenomenon causes the simultaneous power loss and equally simultaneous power restoration throughout the Fleet after jumping to the [[Ionian nebula]]? Are the pursuing Cylons also affected?
* Why does the Fleet jump into the nebula when it is obvious that the Cylons were following them, had probably inferred their trajectory, and could well set up a trap?
* As [[William Adama]] is the deciding vote for Baltar's 'not guilty' verdict, how will this act (and [[Lee Adama]]'s testimony) affect their relationship with each other?
* How will [[Kara Thrace]]'s "resurrection" from the dead be viewed by the Colonials?
* What convinces [[Laura Roslin]] to take the [[diloxin]] treatments she scoffed earlier?
* Will Roslin's physical appearance change drastically because of her cancer treatments?
* How were Kara Thrace and her [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]], unharmed and without any explicable means, able to survive the events of "[[Maelstrom]]" and transport from the "interior" of a gas planet to Earth and then to the Ionian nebula within a relatively short span of time?
* Does Apollo truly see Starbuck in a Viper or has she become an apparition, similar in nature to Baltar's internal Six?
* Did the Six (in "[[Torn]]") say that the [[Final Five]] are "complicated" because they aren't just "deeper" cover agents but rebels or otherwise outcasts from Cylon society? Or are she and the known 7 the outcasts?
* If any of the Final Five were to die, would they be resurrected in a Cylon Resurrection Ship?
* Are any of their histories, such as Tigh's 40 years of service and Tyrol's memories of his parents, true? ([[#Official Statements|Answer]])
* Do the [[final five]] have the same physiology as the other seven, such as their innate immunology, the ability to interface with computer equipment via [[Cylon data port|optical link]], and general inability to conceive children?
* Will the six other active Cylon models discover the identities of the final five?
* Given the small number of survivors from the Colonies, were the members of the final five preprogrammed in order to facilitate their escape with the Fleet?
* Is there any significance to Roslin's disorientation after the jump?
* Did other copies of the newly-revealed Cylons exist in the Colonies, or are the ones aboard ''Galactica'' the only versions?
* Why does Tigh ask "What about Ellen?" in the midst of stating his memories of two Cylon Wars and two decades of service?
* Is Tyrol a tougher model of Cylon that isn't vulnerable to whatever effect the storm at [[Ragnar Anchorage]] had on the other models in the [[Miniseries]], or is there some other explanation for why he showed no ill effects from the storm despite being aboard the Anchorage much longer than Doral was?
* What does Starbuck know that makes her assure Apollo "It's gonna be OK" when a Cylon fleet is closing fast?
* Does Baltar also see the vision of himself in the [[Opera House]] shared by the others?
* Why weren't Tyrol or Tigh affected by the virus that killed the other Cylons in "[[Torn]]" and "[[A Measure of Salvation]]"?

== Analysis ==

* With the revelation that [[Galen Tyrol]] is a [[Humanoid Cylon|Cylon]], the second known Human-Cylon hybrid known to exist is in the form of [[Nicholas Tyrol]]. His birth reinforces the Cylon belief that love is a necessary component to successful procreation. This would make one male and one female hybrid born to date. There may be significant biological differences between the two hybrids; one was carried to term by a human while the other was carried to term by a Cylon.
* The reason for Tyrol's discovery of the [[Temple of Five]] on the [[algae planet]] is better explained here, however it is clearly apparent that his conscious mind is unable to rationalize the reason he discovers it.
* It is also reaffirmed that none of the original seven are aware of the final five. As demonstrated by [[Sharon Valerii]]'s lack of knowledge about Galen Tyrol's true nature during her relationship with him in [[Season 1 (2004-05)|Season 1]] and the torture of Saul Tigh on New Caprica by the Cylons.
* Saul Tigh has been known to physically exist for roughly 23 years as of this episode. While Tigh claims to have fought in the first Cylon War, aside from likely military documentation about his service in the war, there are no supporting non-Cylon witnesses to support his claim. This predates the two-year marker previously indicated by two known infiltrators, [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii]].
* The final scene of the episode depicts Earth, notably the North America content, definitively indicating the existence of this planet.
* As described by Tyrol when the four meet, the music and the Fleet's arrival to the nebula set off a switch within the minds of the four Cylons. However, unlike Boomer, their Cylon natures did not come with a different set of memories or personality.
* The four new Cylons all hold very important or potentially important roles within the Fleet. Tigh is the right hand man for Adama. Foster is the right hand woman for Roslin. Tyrol is the chief in charge of all military maintenance and repairs on the Vipers and Raptors, and is also head of the Colonial labor union. Anders is a new pilot amongst the soldiers of the Fleet and previously a key figure in the resistance movements on both Caprica and New Caprica.
* According to Lampkin, Joseph Adama was a brilliant defense attorney, but not an honest man. This may allude to one of the reasons why Lampkin despised Joseph Adama, but explains Lampkin's tactics as he also respected Joseph as a mentor.
* Lee Adama finally realizes the full extent of how he was manipulated once he sees Lampkin walk off on his own with no cane. Lampkin's ruse was successful in putting a wedge between the Adamas to allow Baltar to be pronounced not guilty.
* Another tendency for the younger Adama is that when faced with the option of completely severing and opposing his father, he will relent and attempt to return to his father's good graces. This has been seen when Lee Adama was given the chance to denounce his father to the Fleet during the military coup, but eventually told Zarek that he couldn't.
* Ironically, it was Roslin who originally wanted Lee Adama to lead a panel to determine who is fit to be on the tribunal. Her reasons being that she believed Lee Adama has a sense of right and wrong that others don't have at that time. Her belief about Lee comes back to haunt her as he rightly pointed out that her broad forgiveness policy for all within the Fleet after the second Exodus should be applied to Baltar as well. Her fear and knowledge of Baltar's involvement with the genocide of the Colonies has clouded her judgment to extend her original act of grace to Baltar.
* Lampkin, apparently was telling the truth that all he had wanted was to have the glory of being the attorney for the most hated man of the Fleet. Once his job is accomplished, he cleans his hands of Baltar, and makes it clear that besides the trial, he does not want to be associated with Baltar.
* Starbuck's last words in the episode allude back to "[[Maelstrom]]" as she is taking on the role of the [[Aurora, Goddess of the Dawn|Aurora]] idol that she gave to Adama before her "death". She claims that, like the idol placed on the model ship, she will be leading the way to Earth.
* Baltar's determined investigation into whether he was one of the Final Five was rooted in a desperation of figuring out who he was. For Baltar, if he were a Cylon, then he never was a traitor to his people and his self-identity would be cemented forever. However, for the four newly discovered Cylons, the revelation of their underlying natures leave them confused and their self-identity fundamentally shaken. While Baltar would have embraced this revelation with joy, the four new Cylons tremble with horror.
* The loss of Tigh's eye on [[New Caprica]] now has a kind of dark humor to it, as the [[Cylon Centurion|Centurions]] on both the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original]] and [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined]] Series are characterized by having only a single eye.
* Tigh states that if he dies today, he will be remembered as a human officer of the Fleet and a patriot. But if death for the Final Five is similar to that of the other humanoid Cylon models, if he dies he will be downloaded into a new body, surrounded by Cylons intending to manipulate him to their side or box his consciousness, and should he ever come in contact with those who knew him as a human they would instantly regard him as a Cylon and therefore an enemy.
* If the Final Five are capable of resurrecting and assuming that Kara Thrace is the last of them, this could provide an explanation for how she comes to the Ionian nebula (assuming her to be the physical Kara Thrace and not some manner of hallucination or projection). Her Viper could have been provided in the same way as the Raptor Baltar uses to get to the disabled basestar in "[[Torn]]".

== Notes ==
* Four of the "[[Final Five]]" are revealed to be [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Samuel Anders]], [[Saul Tigh]], and [[Tory Foster]].
* Lee Adama points out a string of incidents throughout the series that would have resulted in serious consequences under normal circumstances, but where the persons involved weren't punished: his destruction of the ''Olympic Carrier'' ([[33]]), William Adama's coup against Roslin, Lee putting a weapon to Colonel Tigh's head and supporting a munity ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]), Helo and Chief Tyrol killing Lt. [[Thorne]] ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]), Tigh's use of suicide bombers on New Caprica ([[Occupation]]), people supporting the Cylons on New Caprica ([[Collaborators]]).
* Bob Dylan stated his song "[[w:All_Along_The_Watchtower|All Along the Watchtower]]" is better understood when viewed in reverse order. This song has been covered by numerous artists with Jimi Hendrix recording the definitive version. The song's [http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/watchtower.html lyrics] can be interpreted as holding many parallels to the situation that Tigh, Anders, Tyrol, and Foster find themselves in.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''Lt. '''[[Felix Gaeta]]''' has just commited [[w:perjury|perjury]] on whether Baltar was forced to sign the order of execution or not. Prosecutor [[Cassidy]] puts the document Baltar signed in evidence and on the defense table in front of Baltar:''
: '''Baltar:''' Get that out of my face before I....! (He grabs the document on the table and crumples it slightly and flings it away.)
: '''Lee:''' "Gaius, Gaius, we'll get him in the cross."
: '''Judge Franks''': Counselor will you control your client!:
: '''Baltar (to the judge):''' Look, Its no secret....
: '''Romo:''' Quiet!!
: '''Baltar:''' ...the whole fleet knows that this man tried to stab me though the neck... (to Felix) ...AND YOU MISSED!! BUTTERFINGERS!!!

* ''[[Saul Tigh]], [[Tory Foster]], [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] decide what to do now they know they're Cylons:''
: '''Felix Gaeta''': (over the intercom) Inbound Cylon Fleet. I repeat. Action stations, action stations. Set condition one throughout the ship. This is not a drill.
: '''Tory Foster''': My Gods, what are we going do?
: '''Saul Tigh''': The ship is under attack, we do our jobs. Report to your stations.
: '''Galen Tyrol''': Report to Stations?
: '''Saul Tigh''': My name is Saul Tigh, I am an officer in the Colonial Fleet. Whatever else I am, whatever else it means, that's the man I want to be. And if I die today, that's the man I'll be.
* ''[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] pulls alongside [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] in her undamaged Viper:''
: '''Starbuck''': Hi, Lee.
: '''Apollo''': (his eyes widen in disbelief) Kara?
: '''Starbuck''': Dont freak out, it really is me (laughs). It's going to be okay. I've been to Earth. I know where it is. And I'm going to take us there.

Prior to the clarification of what the song is, two the four Cylons ([[Saul Tigh]] and [[Samuel Anders]]) each speak a line of the lyrics in conversational context:
* ''While Anders is supposed to be learning about Raptor flight systems during a pilot training session, he catches Chief Tyrol humming the tune and asks him about it. When Racetrack, who is the training officer, sees Anders off talking to the Chief:''
: '''Racetrack''': Yo, Anders! Do you need a frakking invitation? MOVE IT!
: '''Anders''': Alright. '''''No reason to get excited.'''''
* ''Tigh and [[William Adama]] discuss the music Tigh hears:''
: '''Saul Tigh''': You'll look into it? You'll look into it? I am here telling you there is Cylon sabotage aboard our ship.
: '''William Adama''': Sabotage? With music?
: '''Saul Tigh''': I know, I know. I can't quite understand it myself. '''''There's too much confusion.'''''

== Official Statements ==

* ''[[Jamie Bamber]] discusses the finale:''
: It is a different finale in the sense that the previous ones have been about fragmenting the characters and spreading them all over different parts of space, and this one, everyone is really on board ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. Every major character is on ''Galactica'', and the stuff going on down on ''Galactica'' is where the drama is.<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Interviews-Features/Article/default.aspx?posting=%7BAC4FC1D4-115F-457C-8E4A-01A539D77D39%7D|title=''Galactica'''s Jamie Bamber Visits a Heavenly ''Ghost''|date=2007-02-23|accessdate=2007-02-23|last=Cohn|first=Angel|format=|language=}}</ref>
* ''SciFi.com Forums Admin discusses the running time:''
: The Sunday, March 25, season finale of ''Battlestar Galactica'' will run five minutes longer than usual. If you plan on recording the episode, set your DVR or VCR to continue for five to 10 minutes after the end of the hour so you do not miss anything.<ref>{{cite_news|first=|last=|url=http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2266869|title=BSG Season Finale on March 25 will run 5 minutes overtime|publisher=|page=|date=2007-03-07|accessdate=2007-03-08|language=English}}</ref>
* Bear McCreary discusses the use of the [[w:Bob Dylan|Bob Dylan]] song:
: ''I learned that the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters' universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source.''<ref>Bear McCreary's blog, {{cite_web|url=http://www.bearmccreary.com/html/blog/blogmain.htm|title="Crossroads, Pt. II"|date=2007-03-25|accessdate=2007-03-27}}</ref>
*RDM has confirmed in [http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07085/770732-352.stm this] interview that Tyrol, Tigh, Tory, and Anders are indeed Cylons and members of the Final Five. When asked whether Starbuck was real or a hallucination, he did not provide a conclusive answer. Also in that interview he states that Tigh "fought in two wars."
*In [http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2270103&st=0 20 Answers] RDM states that the issues regarding Tigh's service in CW1 has a complex rationale already built out from "a lot of time and effort," strongly implying that it is not simply a false memory.

== Guest Stars ==

*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as [[Dr. Cottle]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Chelah Horsdal]] as [[Cassidy]]
*[[Katee Sackhoff]] as [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
*[[Jen Halley]] as [[Diana Seelix]]
*[[Brad Dryborough]] as [[Hoshi]]
*[[Alison Matthews]] as [[Karen Fallbrook|Fallbrook]]
*[[Susan Hogan]] as [[Doyle Franks]]
*[[Stephen Holmes]] as Reporter #2
*[[Keegan Connor Tracy]] as [[Young Woman]]
*[[William Samples]] as Judge #2
*[[Lily Duong-Walton]] as [[Hera Agathon]] (uncredited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Crossroads, Part II]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Crossroads, Part II]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Crossroads, Part II]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Cylon detector/Archive 1

2007-03-29T05:14:47Z

Rocky8311:

I'm rather short on time at the moment, so if someone would be so kind as to go back and fill in information such as episode names and such, that would be awesome. --[[User:207.160.210.253|207.160.210.253]] 21:41, 14 Apr 2005 (EDT)
:I added links to numerous episodes and a few characters. 14 Apr 2005 [[User:BillCook|BillCook]] [[User Talk:BillCook|Talk]]

== Should this article be re-written? ==

As I'm reading this article, there is a definite problem which I have seen crop up. There is the underlying assumption that Number Six is real; since, at best, this claim is nebulous, I believe that this page should be re-written to factor this in. Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:51, 27 March 2006 (CST)
:I also have a problem with the whole incident involving Sharon's test. I think it's a plot hole that Baltar went from merely "Holy frak there's a Cylon in the room with me and if I tell her she's a Cylon she'll kill me" to "I'm not going to tell anyone that Sharon, a key member of the crew responsible for protecting the Fleet against Cylons and hey, probably the person who set those charges onboard Galactica a couple months back, is a Cylon. Not going to tell anyone, even now that she's out of the room. Now That I've locked the door. Now that I've got a perfectly secure line to Commander Adama. Nope, not going to tell anyone, because I'm Gaius Baltar, I don't make a frak bit of sense and I'm RDM's own bipedal plot hole." --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 21:20, 29 March 2006 (CST)
::The knowledge of Sharon's true nature could have served him later. Remeber, he isn't on anybody's side. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 30 March 2006

::: Plus he believes he is doing God's work, and thus would more than likely be protected from any Cylon act. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:05, 29 March 2006 (CST)

::::He's self-serving more than pious any day of the week. The whole God thing was *never* consistent from episode to episode, and I don't see how revealing the fact that Sharon is a Cylon later than sooner would do anything besides making him criminally complacent. Not to mention he'd have to ignore the fact that she was probably the one running around blowing up parts of the Galactica months earlier, and being as self-serving as he is, she being a Cylon represents a danger, not an asset. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 15:56, 31 March 2006 (CST)

::::: The thing is while Baltar personally believes he's caught somewhere in between the Cylons and Humanity, his '''actions''' have always been those that favour them, whether "Six" is just a manifestation of his own psychosis or something else she has consistently led him to decisions that favour the Cylon agenda, indeed prior to Season three the only action Baltar takes '''at all''' that isn't in their overall interests is the shooting of Crashdown, who at the time represented a direct and immediate threat to Baltar himself [[User:Useless|Useless]] 10:48, 16 November 2006 (CST)
::::::Er, [[Crashdown]]. [[Racetrack]] is alive and well. Though that was a pretty neutral (and self-serving) move. Shooting the (nominal) leader of the expedition might be interpreted as being pro-Cylon, but looking at the situation reveals it to be more complicated than that. (That's one of my favorite eps). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:04, 16 November 2006 (CST)
::::::: which just strengthens my point, this is the only case pre season 3 where Baltar actively does '''anything''' that even arguably doesn't aid the Cylons, and even this isn't clear cut. In his head he was playing both sides against the middle but his actions tell a much more one sided story.--[[User:Useless|Useless]] 16:55, 16 November 2006 (CST)

== No longer operable ==

I removed a claim that the cylon detector built by Dr. Baltar no longer works as he donated the nuke to the cylon infiltrators in the fleet. The detector was used on Bulldog, after the detonation of Baltar's nuke. Therefore it is only fair to assume that it still works. [[User:Thorn|Thorn]] 13:26, 25 January 2007 (CST)

== Does it work on Final Five? ==

Tyrol was almost tested in Season 2 when Boomer was first outed, but do we know of it being used on any final five? [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]]

Baltar as Cylon speculation

2007-03-28T20:47:32Z

Rocky8311: /* The Baltar-as-Father Argument */ cylons can father children

:''This extended speculation thread discusses the probability of [[Gaius Baltar]] as a [[Humanoid Cylon]]. This article is a special extension from the [[Humanoid Cylon speculation#Gaius Baltar?|Humanoid Cylon speculation]] article.''

For '''[[Gaius Baltar]]''' to survive the destruction of Caprica was no small matter, especially considering he was in the wake a nuclear shock wave and that the body of Six that he knew was apparently destroyed in trying to protect him in the events of the [[Miniseries, Night 1]].

A nuclear blast's shock wave is substantial (not unlike that from a [[Wikipedia:Pyroclastic flow|pyroclastic cloud]]). The shock wave would contain rocks, glass, metal, and other large debris that would bludgeon, pierce and lacerate human tissue with ease and at terrific speeds (at maximum, 1200 KPH, or 745 MPH). Such a debris-filled shock wave would obliterate Baltar's home and easily annihilate Six's body, which at those speeds would provide essentially no protection to Baltar's. (For comparison, note that, despite his superior strength, the head of the first [[Leoben Conoy]] copy encountered was bludgeoned by Commander Adama with a flashlight, and many other Humanoid Cylon copies have been shot or killed as easily as a human.) However, it has to be kept in mind that the blast wave had dissipated greatly by the time it had reached Baltar's house some 26 seconds after the detonation that almost blinded him, probably no more than hurricane force, a wind speed of 74 mph. There are testimonies from Hiroshima and Nagasaki survivors, two Japanese cities that were struck with nuclear bombs at the end of World War II, being in buildings and even in trams quite close to the epicentre and coming out of the ordeal surprisingly unharmed save for a few scratches.

Even if Baltar survived momentarily from Six's protection, either the remains of his home would have collapsed over him, likely trapping him if not killing him, or he and Six's body would also be carried away by the shock wave for some distance. Could the Baltar on ''Galactica'' be now, in fact, a Humanoid Cylon?

==The "Many Copies" Theory==
Humanoid Cylons are designed to be archetypes of human psyche. Biologically, Humanoid Cylons are not and have never been actual humans.

One notable question would be ''why'' Six has spent so much time talking to Baltar and then thrown herself in front of the blast if she'd intended for him to die? If Baltar was already a Humanoid Cylon, his consciousness from that moment would be thrown into a waking duplicate, already disheveled and scraped, where Baltar would merely think he was blown clear to safety where he could run to escape attacks with other survivors. Also, since Baltar appeared to be key in many Cylon plans, they would want to ensure that Baltar would reach any remaining humans to spy for them, and having only one copy might risk the success of such plans. Further, it is the ''psyche'' of Baltar that the Cylons may treasure most; few others in the Colonies may have the level of intelligence, arrogance, and neurosis that Baltar has that could prove as easily exploitable. The guise of the great Baltar gives the Cylons a huge natural tactical advantage in that he is well known and allowed access to almost any critical battlestar location. Baltar's slick-as-oil personality aids him with better finesse and stronger charisma than any Humanoid Cylon personality yet seen.

Later events in the series appear to discount this notion of an elaborate plan to save Baltar. In "[[Downloaded]]", the Cylons are unaware that Baltar had survived, having received this information from the resurrected [[Sharon Valerii]].

==The Baltar-as-Father Argument==

Six has stated her desire to have a child with Baltar. Humanoid Cylon couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point ([[The Farm]]). If Baltar and Six were both Humanoid Cylons, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely. This point gives evidence against the Baltar-as-Cylon theory, but Six has repeatedly made it clear that she considers the hybrid human-Cylon baby that Sharon is carrying to be "our" (as she puts it) baby. "Our" may in fact be inclusive of all Cylons, which may just include Baltar.

In "[[Home, Part II]]", the virtual Six indicates that Baltar's and Six's child will be born in the isolation cage built for the [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii]]. The reality turned out different: The Caprica version of Valerii, pregnant by [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], now occupies the cage by the end of that episode, and virtual Six indicates that it is in fact '''Valerii's''' child that will become Baltar's. This gives some weight to the Baltar-as-Cylon theory since Baltar becoming a father by surrogate circumvents the need for him to do so naturally, although Chief Tyrol's outing as a Final Five Cylon shows that male Humanoid Cylons can sire a child with human females. However, earlier in the first season, in "[[33]]", Six asked Baltar if he wanted to procreate with her, and at this point she may have meant an actual child of Baltar's. "Home, Part II" occurred much later in the timeline, and it is possible that the Cylons and Number Six had to alter their plans during this time. Number Six did mention in "Home, Part II" that she didn't consider Sharon "worthy" of bearing one of "God's new children" (the Humanoid Cylons). Perhaps Sharon was not originally planned to be the first mother of a hybrid baby at all, and Number Six was going to have a child with the (necessarily human) Baltar, but had to shift plans when Sharon became pregnant first.

With the actual consciousness of the Cylon known as [[Caprica-Six]] returned (now with a [[Cylon-Related Hallucinations|virtual ''Gaius Baltar'']] that haunts her), the credibilty of the virtual Six, and her connection to some elaborate Cylon plan for procreation with Baltar, is specious at best.

==Inside Baltar's Head==

Baltar's brain scan in "[[Home, Part II]]" confirms that the virtual Six that only Baltar can see is '''not''' an actual ''artificial'' device in his brain. This leaves a number of possibilities, of which the strongest are:

# Baltar has a device elsewhere in his body. We're not given information on whether ''all'' of Baltar's body was scanned, or just his head.
# A portion of Baltar's body ''is'' the "chip" but fashioned in a way by the Cylons that is medically indistinguishable from a regular body part and may also function normally (say, a pituitary gland)
# Baltar's body is artificial, with his personality (complete with neuroses) placed in a Humanoid Cylon construct. While Baltar's psyche itself may not be that of a Cylon, the addition of the virtual Six component compliments the arrangement for the Cylon's purposes.

Possibility #3 is interesting in that, based on Baltar's own research on the Six copy known as [[Gina]], Baltar's personality and guilt would continue to plague him either in Humanoid Cylon or human form. But, if Baltar were reconstructed as a Cylon, the virtual Six aids Baltar by being, in effect, the conscience and "guardian angel" she claims to be, keeping his neuroses and guilt over the genocide from driving him completely insane--for now.

The episode "[[Torn]]" introduces the Cylon ability known as [[projection]]. This ability allows a Cylon to visualize a pleasing environment that also makes it easier to make their way through a basestar's corridors. At this point, Baltar, recalling the many times where he and his virtual Six have enjoyed time at his home in a manner similar to projection, begins to question his own nature.

==But Cylons aren't human clones==

As Cylons aren't copies of humans, this would suggest either of two possibilities for Baltar: first, that he survived the blast and escaped, or second, that Baltar was a Cylon all along, even on Caprica.

The idea of Baltar being originally a Cylon has problems, however. If Baltar were a Cylon, it would be redundant and unnecessary for Number Six to "choose him" for her mission (unless the Cylons preferred Baltar to remain a "sleeper" throughout his mission to give "plausible deniability" in his mind as well as allow him to do what his personality is likely to do). Furthermore, from a story perspective, the idea of Baltar being a Cylon very much goes against the idea of Baltar as a traitor betraying humanity to the Cylons—as well as the idea of Baltar's relationship with Six being a true human/Cylon pairing. It should be noted, however, that Ron D. Moore's "Gaius Baltar" differs significantly from the [[Baltar (TOS)|"Baltar" of the Original Series]]. The Baltar of the Original Series was a true turncoat with megalomaniacal tendencies; Gaius, on the other hand, is not power-hungry but is driven by a strong sense of self, albeit to the exclusion and ignorance of the needs of everyone else.

Gaius is often treated by Six as a human--ultimately the only human who will be allowed to survive by the Cylons. But the human models of Cylon also behave with classically human qualities (not all of them perfect or utopian) and seem to see each other in varying emotions (admiration and contempt are prevalent when Six speaks of the pregnant Caprica Valerii). So, at the least, Gaius is treated with no less respect than any other Humanoid Cylon by his virtual Six. If we assume Gaius is indeed human, Six's interaction with Baltar (given the hostilities of the Cylons) borders on admiration. Although we can't necessarily use Six's emotions as a ''de facto'' gauge of Baltar's genuine humanity, it does lend to the mystery.

The storyline possibilities do change somewhat if Baltar has ''always'' been a Cylon. Note that Baltar has never spoken of his family or other friends (other than President [[Richard Adar|Adar]]), strongly suggesting Baltar has been a "loner." If Baltar's parentage (or offspring--he is rather promiscuous) cannot be confirmed (as has been done with Commander Adama, also on the list of suspects), then the laws of physics (nuclear shock wave damage to human tissue) as well as the laws of procreation (Cylons can't quite procreate as humans do) continue to leave open the possibility that Baltar is model of Cylon, however reduced the odds are now, based on Moore's new information.

==Events from the episode "Downloaded"==

The episode "[[Downloaded]]" contains revelations that reduced the possibility that Baltar is a Cylon. In dialogue with each other, numerous Cylon characters distinctly refer to Baltar as human. Although it is possible that they might keep the information from Baltar, the nature of the Cylon thought collective would seem to make no sense to keep it a secret to each other. In addition, this episode introduced the unique idea of a Number Six copy with a virtual ''Baltar'' in her head. Through Six, Baltar pushes for the Cylons to be more human; for example, letting [[Samuel Anders]] go free despite his destruction of a building and many other Humanoid Cylons. If Baltar were a Cylon, the events in the episode would make little sense.

The events in "[[Torn]]" all but toss the revelations of "Downloaded" on its ear, as the series writers directly tackle the Baltar-is-Cylon question in a story arc in season three.

=="Torn" renews speculation==

The episode "[[Torn]]" meanwhile contains certain revelations about the nature of the Cylons and some possible hints about Baltar's nature. While guiding Baltar through the interior of the basestar, Caprica-Six reveals the Cylon process of "[[projection]]"; the Cylon's ability to alter their perceptions and create a simulated reality of their choosing. Baltar immediately notices how similar that seems to his own visions of Six and begins to question if he is a Cylon because he can project as well. The question still remains, if he possibly is a Cylon, why do the other Cylons think he is a human?

When Baltar questions why he has seen only seven humanoid agents, despite the point that twelve humanoid Cylons exist, Caprica-Six is unwilling to answer. Apparently the Cylons have blocked or have lost all knowledge of the these five remaining agents. A [[Number Three]] copy, obsessed with regaining the knowledge, commits suicide to see visions of the so called "[[final five]]," but cannot remember what they look like when she regains consciousness after downloading, despite attempts to sketch her interpretations of them in order to retain her memory of them ([[The Passage]]). This is one explanation why Baltar could be a Cylon and yet not be recognized by the known seven models.

When the Cylons learn of the [[Eye of Jupiter]], they attempt to negotiate for it with the Colonials at the [[algae planet]] the home of the mysterious [[Temple of Five]]. While the Colonials believe the Temple of Five was dedicated to five human priests, Three and Gaius Baltar wonder if the temple (and the Eye) are connected to the five unknown Cylons ([[The Eye of Jupiter]]).

Of additional mystery is the fact that after activating some unknown device in the Temple of Five and getting a glimpse of the final five, number Three seems to recognize one of the final five and repent her actions. Possibly her earlier behavior towards Baltar, such as torturing him ([[Rapture]]).

==Baltar as an "Agent of God"==
Baltar's actions when forced by his virtual Six to repent and worship the Cylon version of [[God]] leaves several significant questions as to the nature of both the virtual Six and Baltar's nature.

In the episode, "[[The Hand of God]]", Baltar makes an educated guess at the specific target to be destroyed on the [[tylium]] refinery without knowing any significant data on the site. Baltar only receives encouragement from his virtual Six to trust in her belief. In "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]," viewers see a stricken and nearly-criminally exposed Baltar repent to the virtual Six just as Lt. Gaeta arrives to confirm his innocence. In the same episode, the virtual Six disappears in anger just as the [[Shelly Godfrey]] copy arrives (with a suggestion that the virtual Six ''knew'' (or summoned) the Godfrey model to arrive. The Godfrey model disappears just as the virtual Six returns as Baltar is repenting.

The episode "[[Downloaded]]" strongly suggests that the virtual copies of [[Caprica Six]] and Baltar that [[Cylon-Related Hallucinations|haunt their opposite interests]] seem to be psychological remnants of the pair's intensive emotional connection. But what if there is more to this than psychology? Episode events surrounding the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and Laura Roslin's quest for the [[Tomb of Athena]] confirm that the Colonials have a spiritual or prophetic element that has guided them to the data that now places them in a true general path to Earth. What forces are driving Baltar beyond his own egotism? What is the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar? Neither Baltar nor Caprica Six know why they appear, and both virtual beings appear to have knowledge beyond that of what the living being they haunt should know. If Baltar is being influenced by the Cylon God (or some cybernetic influence known by neither Cylon or Colonial), there suggests a new thread to the Baltar-as-Cylon speculation that goes beyond the mere creation of a Baltar model. However, in the [[Podcast:Downloaded|episode's podcast]], Ron Moore speaks of the virtual Baltar as simply a hallucination, while in other interviews and podcasts, Moore consistently states that the origin of the virtual Six is supposed to be deliberately vague.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Computers in the Re-imagined Series

2006-12-18T06:33:59Z

Rocky8311: /* Personal Computers */

{{RDM science series}}

Technologies such as '''computers''' have been mostly bane and less of a blessing to the Colonials of the [[Twelve Colonies]], despite the obvious conveniences that technology brings. It was computer technology that led to the creation of the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] for household to warfare use. These intelligent machines rebelled. To counter their creation's ability to hack into computers, the Colonial defenses, particularly the [[Galactica type battlestar|first battlestars]], used computers but did not network them to all but eliminate Cylon infiltration.

Over 40 years after that first [[Cylon War]] and with the Cylons apparently long gone, the Colonials slowly returned to technological conveniences. When the Cylons began planning a second war against the Colonials, they chose to infiltrate the Colonial military through yet another program installed throughout fighters and battlestars that was designed to add more convenience: the [[Command Navigation Program]]. This program, thanks to [[Cylon agent|Cylon agents disguised as humans]] who infiltrated Colonial life and sought out people who had [[Gaius Baltar|access to Colonial computer defense technologies]], contained a "[[backdoor]]" that allowed the Cylon forces to damage or disable any Colonial vessel with this program. Only non-networked ships (such as most civilian ships or ''Galactica'' herself) or those with comparatively primitive computers (such as [[Viper (RDM)|the Viper Mark II]]) were all-but-immune to the new Cylon menace.

[[Image:Seshalaptop 216 1080i.jpg|thumb|right|300px|A laptop computer ([[Sacrifice]]).]]
==Colonial Civilian and Government Computers==

====[[Colonial Defense Mainframe]]====

:Not much is known of this system other than its existence and the roles they played in the destruction of the Twelve Colonies. This central computer housed key Colonial Fleet logistical information, such as fleet deployment, and was the central system used by [[Gaius Baltar]] to create and distribute the [[Command Navigation Program]] to all advanced ships and fighters in the Colonial Fleet ([[Miniseries]]). It was located within the Ministry of Defense on Caprica ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]), since [[Number Six]] produced credible-looking footage showing Baltar attaching a bomb to it.

====[[War College|War College Simulator]]====

:[[Lee Adama]] performed simulations of Cylon attacks in War College to test Colonial defense tactics. One such defense involves the use of [[EMP]] devices to fool Cylon forces into believing a nuclear device detonated where no explosion took place. Adama successfully used the electric pulse generators that were offloaded onto ''[[Colonial Heavy 798]]'' from ''Galactica'' to successfully fool two Cylon Raiders into concluding that their nuclear missile attack on ''Colonial Heavy 798'' was successful, while also disabling the warheads of the missiles aimed at the [[Intersun|starliner]]. Adama was amused that this trick actually worked in reality, for in the War College simulations the Cylons were not fooled and destroyed the Colonial targets anyway ([[Miniseries]]).

====Viper Flight Simulators====

:Battlestar ''Galactica'' loses many pilots to Cylon attack or accident in the first weeks of exodus from the Colonies. Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] is ordered to become flight instructor to train [[nuggets]] as new pilots. Normally, pilots are trained on simulators, presumably on one of the Colonies or a more advanced battlestar, which used complex computers to immerse a trainee into the feel of Viper combat. Unfortunately, ''Galactica'' did not have simulators onboard, so Thrace teaches the new pilots using actual Vipers ([[Act of Contrition]]). Months later, the [[Mercury class battlestar|advanced battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' joins the Fleet. The modern resources of this battlestar include flight simulators onboard. Rookie pilots [[Brent Baxton|BB]] and [[Joseph Clark|Jo-Jo]] arrive on ''Galactica'' to begin their tour after training with these simulators on ''Pegasus'' ([[Scar]]).

====Personal Computers====

:In preparation for converting ''Galactica'' into a museum and education center, then-Secretary of Education [[Laura Roslin]] pleads unsuccessfully to then-Commander [[William Adama]] to allow installation of a network for personal computers to be used for teaching and information by students and visitors ([[Miniseries]]).

:Terrorist [[Sesha Abinell]] uses a personal laptop computer<ref>In an amusing props gaffe, fans of the show may notice that the mouse she used is an actual product manufactured by the Microsoft Corporation, which may mistakenly suggest to fans that Microsoft's sales model truly ''is'' universal.</ref> in her quarters as she compiles and gathers information on Cylon and Colonial conspiracy theories ([[Sacrifice]]).

====Data disks====
[[Image:Hexdisk1.jpg|thumb|left|200px|[[Shelly Godfrey]]'s data disk. ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).]]
[[Image:Hexdisk2.jpg|thumb|right|200px|A disk held by [[D'anna Biers]] in her editing studio ([[Final Cut]]).]]
Data disks<ref>The term "data disk" is a "Battlestar Wiki" descriptive term for the type of media, which hasn't been given a [[canon]]ical name in the series.</ref> are used to make large amounts of data portable between computer networks.

Strangely, only individuals [[Occupation|later revealed to the Colonials]] as [[Cylon agent]]s have been shown in the series to have such disks in their initial possession. The video products resulting on both disks are used by the Cylon agents are elements used for information gathering or discreditation.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

====Portable library readers====
[[Image:portable library reader.jpg|thumb|A portable library reader ([[Epiphanies]]).]]
Portable library readers are more like an hand-held electronic dictionary or encyclopedia. They likely can synchronize data from a personal computer.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==Basestar Computers==

The Cylon are a cybernetic race. As such, ''everything'' is computer-based by nature. To avoid confusion between differentiation of the cybernetic physiology of the [[Cylon agent]], only the non-sentient or quasi-sentient computer systems of the basestar are noted here.

===The Hybrid===

The [[Hybrid]] is a humanoid Cylon that rests in a pool of water near or in a basestar's command and control center. The connectivity that she has to many of the basestar's systems make her, in effect, ''the'' basestar. Functions such as [[Cylon Centurion]] and Cylon Raider access and deployment appear controlled from the Hybrid, as well as navigation control.

===The Datastream===

The [[datastream]] is the central network within a basestar. It appears to use water as a data transmission medium, a storage medium, or both. The datastream is capable of damage from [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|certain organic pathogens]] that can also infect the sentient Cylon agents. The datastreams appear to utilize other falling water pools within a basestar's command and control center, which may serve as data storage or access nodes<ref>[[Sharon Agathon]] instructs a member of her boarding team to place a Colonial data gathering device in one of these pools in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]."</ref>.

===Data port interfaces===

While not computers in themselves, Cylon agents, which are more biological than cybernetic, have devised a remarkable manner to interface with computer systems with an optical interface. On a basestar, Cylons can access their datastream by placing their arm on an illuminated panel that's covered by a thin layer of water. This activates the [[Cylon data port|data port]], an optical interface incorporated within their arms that's otherwise disguised as ordinary human tissues. These interfaces are transceivers that can also be configured for visual data such as photography.

==Battlestar Computers==

An original battlestar such as ''[[Galactica]]'' has several computers dedicated to many critical ship functions. Several specific computers have been mentioned in the [[Miniseries]] and [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. This list is not inclusive; an [[Galactica type battlestar|original battlestar]] like ''Galactica'' is still a very complex spacecraft. Advanced battlestars such as ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', with its networked computers, may have more or fewer computers or distributed functionality. It is likely that ''Pegasus'' is not as strongly networked as before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] to create similar defenses against Cylon intrusion.

Although the battlestar normally does not have a central computer network in place, ''Galactica'' does possess a [[Wikipedia:Default gateway|gateway]], which, in ''Galactica's'' case, is likely managed within the Mainframe itself and not as a larger network topology. The Mainframe's normally-isolated gateway can be linked to the other computers (as Gaeta does in "[[Scattered]]").

{|
|
===Navigation Computer===
Also known as the "Nav" computer, it tracks the battlestar<nowiki>'s</nowiki> position and handles [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight]] travel and [[RCS]] translations. It is very likely that [[DRADIS]] sensor information is obtained and managed by the Navigation Computer then passed on to the [[Tactical Officer]] and the Command & Control Center in the [[CIC]].
|[[Image:navcomp_002_720p.jpg|thumb|Nav Computer Display of ''Galactica'' ([[Miniseries]])]]
|}

{|
|
===FTL Computer===

The FTL computer manages the complex calculations necessary for an [[FTL]] Jump. Information for these Jumps on a more [[Mercury class battlestar|advanced battlestar]] such as ''Pegasus'' are probably transmitted from the Navigation Computer by the battlestar's network.

On ''Galactica'', however, the FTL computer receives the spatial coordinates manually from the [[Tactical Officer]] or its Communications Officer. The FTL Computer also manages the star fixes of the Jump coordinates to compensate for inertial drift that naturally occurs over time. The Tactical Officer generates a series of emergency Jump coordinates for the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] with the FTL computer. This information is relayed by the Tactical Officer to other ships regularly. It is likely that the [[flight pod]]s are also controlled through the FTL computer as they must be retracted prior to a Jump.<ref name="scattered">One of Gaeta's responsibilities is to monitor DRADIS contacts. To navigate, a battlestar must use some way to determine its location relative to other objects, so the Navigation and DRADIS connection must exist.</ref>
|[[Image:ftlcomp_217_1080i.jpg|thumb|FTL Systems Display of ''Pegasus'' ([[The Captain's Hand]])]]
|}

{|
|
===Damage Control Computer===

The Damage Control computer relays information to the CIC on malfunctioning or damaged areas of the battlestar, presumably from various sensors throughout the ship. It also has access to radiation sensors in the event of nuclear attack to warn against dangerous radiation levels that could harm the crew.<ref name="miniseries2">While Colonel Tigh was on a handset ordering the retraction of the pods as the battlestar began its escape from Ragnar Anchorage, many events within the ship must be coordinated (bulkheads closing, motors for the pod movement activated, etc.) While there was likely a person in CIC or elsewhere that flips a switch or types in a computer command, there must still be a computer used to coordinate these events as they are too many to manage in a limited amount of time ([[Miniseries]]).</ref> The DC computer's function can be compromised by a hostile force through places such as [[Aft Damage Control]], as was threatened in "[[Valley of Darkness]]." If these locations are compromised, the computer's safeties can be overridden and various life-support controls, such as bulkheads and atmospheric controls, could be altered, venting the ship's air (and crew) into space.
|[[Image:PegasusDamageDisplay2.jpg|thumb|Damage Control display of ''Pegasus'' ([[The Captain's Hand]])]]
|}

{|
|
===Fire Control Computer===

The Fire Control computer manages a battlestar's primary offensive weapons, the central flak turret and smaller port and starboard turrets along the length of each side of the ship. It is presumed that the Fire Control computers report to crewmembers responsible for the upkeep of ammunition on the guns when to reload an particular turret. The Fire Control computer can target individual bogeys with the flak turret guns, which, in tandem with the smaller turrets, make even ''Galactica'', an old original battlestar from the first [[Cylon War]], a formidable foe to encounter. Like the DC computer, there are control rooms on ''Galactica'' where the ship's computerized gun control can be overriden.<ref name="miniseries">''Galactica's'' flak turret guns are seen directly targeting specific missiles during the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]] ([[Miniseries]]).</ref>
|[[Image:Maingunredlight_101_1080i.jpg|thumb|Fire Control Display Panel ([[33]])]]
|}

===Mainframe Computer===

This computer likely manages secondary functions of the ship, such as communications. The mainframe likely provides extra calculating power for other ship tasks when required, and may also serve as the ship's library for tactical information.<ref name="phe">[[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]: "Mr. Gaeta, can you set me up with a fiber-optic com link? I need broadcast to all frequencies and direct link to the mainframe." ([[Flight of the Phoenix]])</ref> Of all the computers on ''Galactica'', this computer is likely very resistant by design to infiltration since it controls communication traffic (and thus is accessible to Cylon external intrusion by [[wireless]]). The mainframe likely possesses a basic gateway, but, per ''Galactica's'' no-networks edict, it is typically unused.

==Avionics==

:''The computer systems found on fighters and support aircraft of a capital ship are generally described by the term ''[[Wikipedia:Avionics|avionics]]'' (AVIation electrONICS). In the world of ''Battlestar Galactica'', aircraft terminology is intermixed with spacecraft terminology--note the use of "[[CAG]]" and Commander Adama's use of the word "planes" to Chief [[Galen Tyrol]] to describe the Viper space fighter ([[Litmus]]). As the term "avionics" was used in the episode "[[Flesh and Bone]]" to describe the flight electronics on the captured [[Raider]], despite its aeronautical connotation, it will be used here.''

===Colonial Avionics===

The [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] relied initially on primitive, hard-wired avionics in its early fighters, but later reverted to more "[[Wikipedia:Fly by wire|fly-by-wire]]" technologies, one of which sealed the doom of billions of citizens.

====Vipers and Raptors====
[[Image:Vipermk2interior 104 1080i.jpg|left|thumb|200px|A view of the manual "8-ball" landing software on a Viper Mk. II.]]

The '''avionics''' found on [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]s and [[Raptor]]s likely include these components, which vary in availability or degrees of complexity depending on the craft's age or purpose.

* A non-directional medium-range [[wireless]] communications for ship-to-ship and ship-to-planet contact
* [[DRADIS]] hardware for enemy targeting, squadron formation flight maneuvers, and the like
* A Colonial transponder for [[IFF]] "friend or foe" identification
* Stellar positioning system for proper [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight]] or [[FTL]] positioning
* Instrument Landing Systems (ILS), an automatic ("hands-off") landing system guidance package
[[Image:Vipermk2interior3 104 1080i.jpg|left|thumb|200px|A view of a Mk. II secondary display below the primary display, currently using [[DRADIS]].]]
Larger craft such as Raptors could manage [[FTL|Jumps]] and so came equipped with more advanced avionics to handle FTL travel.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

====Vulnerabilities====
{|
|In the case of modern (pre-[[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|holocaust]]) spacecraft, many of these systems were likely tied into (either as a software or firmware component) of the tainted [[Command Navigation Program]]. Evidence for this is strong as viewers watched [[Jackson Spencer]]'s Mark VII Viper lose power, communications, flight control, DRADIS, and apparently ejection control after Cylon fighters "rooted", or counter-commanded his Viper to shut down, thanks to the backdoors installed in these modern avionics packages ([[Miniseries]])
|[[Image:ViperMk7Avionics.jpg|thumb|200px|Viper Mk. VII cockpit avionics, vulnerable if the [[CNP]] is installed.]]
|}
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

[[Image:ViperMk2Avionics.jpg|left|thumb|200px|Viper Mk. II cockpit avionics, resistant to Cylon infiltration.]]
Older Vipers, like the Mark II, used more primitive avionics with far less dependence on computer programming. Designed for the First Cylon War to engage an enemy that commonly used computer infiltration as an attack, older Colonial spacecraft likely did not possess conveniences that modern Vipers and their pilots took for granted, such as auto-landing systems.

''Galactica'' prohibits computerized landings, so all pilots perform [[Hands-on Approach|manual approach and landings]] in [[Combat landing|non-combat modes]]. No information has been given in the series if Mark II Vipers are capable of auto-landings in the manner that Mark VII's demonstrate ([[Miniseries]]).

It's unknown if Mark VII fighters are still capable or allowed to perform auto-landings on ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' with its [[Lee Adama|change of commanders]] or its forced disuse of the [[CNP]], the software that made auto-landings (in whole or in part) possible.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Cylon Avionics===

Cylon avionics contain biological elements, some of which include or are interfaced with quasi-sentient elements.

====Raiders====

[[Cylon Raiders]] contain some level of avionics that co-exist amidst the biological components that form the "pilot" within the fuselage of the fighter. Kara Thrace identifies the mechanical linkage within a captured fighter, and [[Galen Tyrol]]'s team identifies the fire control, navigation, and FTL drive components in addition to an actual avionics package ([[Flesh and Bone]]). ''Galactica'' flight crews later rigged a flight control console that mated with the Raider's avionics for human readability.

The Cylons moved to biomechanical pilots rather than using Centurions or other robotic pilot for three probable reasons:

# The Cylon's monothesistic belief in [[God]] and their belief in procreation (machines cannot procreate, but living organisms can) suggest that they believe a biological pilot would be more effective. A Raider pilot is programmed with a basic personality akin to a predatory animal. Unlike the logic of a Centurion, a Raider pilot is capable of improvements in its programming--it can learn and anticipate changes in battle ([[Six Degrees of Separation]], [[Scar]]).
# In battle, Colonial forces may attempt electronic countermeasures that could affect the performance or operation of a fully-mechanical Cylon Raider or a craft piloted by autonomous [[Cylon Centurion]]s. As the Colonials moved to simplier technologies to combat Cylon ECM, so did the Cylons--like a human Viper pilot, the modern Raider with its biologics cannot be easily disabled by ECM.
# A Raider's personality, like a [[Cylon agent]], is downloadable and transferable should the fighter be destroyed. This provides the Cylons a dramatic tactical advantage over the Colonials since the knowledge of a Raider isn't lost on death, allowing it to improve its fighting as well as allowing risker tactics (such as ramming) without permanent loss of self, provided a [[Resurrection Ship]] or the [[Cylon homeworld]] is sufficiently close to retrieve a signal ([[Scar]]).

====Heavy Raider====

The interior of a Heavy Raider, or its cockpit, have not been shown in a series episode, so no information is available as to the nature of their avionics and piloting requirements, although the events from the episodes "[[Fragged]]," "[[The Farm]]" and "[[Home, Part I]]" suggest that the Heavy Raider is not an autonomous or quasi-autonomous vehicle.

====Vulnerabilities====

Cylon spacecraft avionics can be affected by infiltration with the right methods. The cooperative Cylon infiltrator copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] used herself as a [[backdoor]] to send a version of a Cylon virus to shut down power to a massive Cylon fleet en route to attack ''Galactica'' ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). It was not shown whether the biologics of the Cylon Raiders are themselves affected by this unexpected infiltration from Valerii.

The organic nature of most Cylon cybernetics is also susceptible to [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|classic human pathogens]], which can cause massive and catastrophic system failure. The infection that caused a basestar to succumb in "[[Torn]]," according to other Cylons investigating the incident, has a bioelectric nature that could cause it to behave more like programming, allowing the [[Resurrection (RDM)|downloaded personalities]] of infected agents to infect the entire Cylon race via the [[Resurrection Ship]].

==Computer History==

:''For more information on the use of Colonial computers in the series, see the main article, [[Colonial Computer History]].''

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category: Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Technology (RDM)]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
[[Category:Terminology (RDM)]]

{{featured article candidate previous}}
{{featured article}}

Talk:Observation deck/Archive 1

2006-12-18T06:31:49Z

Rocky8311:

A voice over the intercom calls this room the "Observation deck", so that's its name, not "Observation lounge" or whatever. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:35, 4 April 2006 (CDT)

It would be interesting if they had an episode that involved battles, where there were no CGI sequences....where you would "see" no more than those in the CIC could "see". You'd hear battle sounds, shots hitting Galactica, Adama giving orders and other officers giving updates, but you'd be left in suspense as to how it was going... [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 00:31, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:Peter Laird/Archive 1

2006-12-18T04:17:10Z

Rocky8311:

Didn't Laird say that he was onbaord the ship ''[[Scylla]]'' at the time of the attack? [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 13:30, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

Laird's probably not the deck chief on Galactica anymore, n'est pas? ...but hopefully Adama didn't make Laird go back to Pegasus after what Cain did to the civilians [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 01:20, 17 February 2006 (EST)

Has anyone seen Laird lately? I wonder if Adama was merciful to let him and other conscripts leave the service when New Caprica was found and not reactivate them afterwards. Or at least commission him as an officer if his education level allows (which is probable). I could also see Laird collaborating as a New Caprica Police officer during the occupation [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 22:17, 17 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:Sharon Agathon/Archive 1

2006-12-11T12:24:55Z

Rocky8311: Cylon "agent"?

I'm not one to usually use the phrase "slam dunk", but this separation of the two Sharons into two character pages is ''Fantastic''!--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:04, 27 January 2006 (EST)

==Cylon "Agent"?==
Maybe it's too soon to be certain, I don't think the template should state that Sharon Agathon is a Cylon AGENT. She's a Cylon, but a Colonial officer. She's not currently understood to be under the control of Cylon programming, so is she really their AGENT? If we changed the template for all cylons to say "(blank) is a Cylon" I think that would be the most accurate. It would also resonate with dialogues in many episodes like Doral ("I'm not a Cylon!"), Boomer ("I'm a frakking Cylon!"), and Baltar ("Am I a Cylon!?") --[[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 06:24, 11 December 2006 (CST)

==Ragnar Valerii==
On re-viewing, it seems to me that Ragnar Valerii is almost certainly Caprica Valerii. Why else would she be wearing a Colonial flight suit? On the other hand, what is she doing all the way at Ragnar rather than preparing for her mission on Caprica? Are there so few of her that she had to pull double duty that week? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:36, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:That shes wearing the uniform is more likely a mistake, they hadn't thought of Caprica Valerii when they made the mini-series. Still, the two being one and the same is a good way to explain away said mistake. Her Caprica misson wouldn't really take any preparation, and the Cylons would probably make very efficient use of personnel.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 19:18, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:I disagree on this one. We know that there are dozens, nay, hundreds of duplicates of each Cylon model. Plus we don't know how they can share information. Further, Team Anders said that they had seen Cylons in uniform before, implying that it is ''not'' an uncommon sight or rare to see them in one. This combined with the other evidence leads me to thing that there is no real reason to '''assume''' one way or the other that it's the same one. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:06, 30 December 2005 (EST)

::Yeah, good points.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 23:47, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:::Sharon just likes to wear Colonial flight suits, just like Doral likes to wear Colonial professional attire and Six likes to wear sexy Colonial dresses. I mean, it's really an affectation for Cylons to wear *any* sort of human clothing—and given comfortable enough conditions, such as those on the interior of a Basestar, they don't. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:55, 31 December 2005 (EST)
::::Actually, I got the impression that the Sharons on the Basestar were all naked because they were "fresh off the assembly line", as it were.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:49, 31 December 2005 (EST)
:::::Basestars produce Cylons? I thought only the Resurrection Ship could do that (oops :-X) [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:27, 1 January 2006 (EST)
::::::I guess there are some consequences for making it all up as you go. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:19, 1 January 2006 (EST)

Or--Humano-Cylons are individuals and dress (or not) as individuals and groups. Those aboard the Basestar had formed a community of sorts which saw no particular reason for clothes. The Sharon at Ragnar was one of those who--for reasons of her own (identification with her "sleeper" sister perhaps?) decided to wear a flight suit. [[User:Zahir|Zahir]] 12:45, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:I'm pretty sure they were naked because it was warm, humid, and moist in there. And the Resurrection Ship doesn't produce new Cylons, it re-embodies old ones. All the Eights seen in Downloaded, besides Boomer, were in earth-tones. --[[User:Noneofoyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 9:30, 4 March 2006 (EST)

::The Resurrection Ship probably does produce new Cylons, both agents and raiders. It would make sense --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 21 March 2006
:::There was another nudey Eight on the basestar that Baltar is on too --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 03:35, 14 November 2006 (CST)

==Caprica Sharon lies?==
Is Caprica Sharon lying about what she knows about the Cylons, and what she knows about the members of Galactica? Manipulating Starbuck in [[Scar]]? It seems given what we learned about Cylons in [[Downloaded]], she should not necessarily have the memories she claims to have. [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 10:31, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:Matters of pure speculation; we've actually seen nothing that hints or implies that she is really hiding anything; personally, I don't think she is. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:22, 2 March 2006 (CST)
[[User:brotondi|brotondi]] 14.5.06 This is a very interesting point which is not clear yet - and I think also the director will still work on this idea: How identical are copies? How does memory transfer between copies work? ... For me it was one of the greatest moments when Caprica Sharon says to Adama strangling her "And you ask WHY?" - for me referencing on the scene Adama cried on the dead Galactica Sharon. Is this reference not possible? Makes nothing, was great and for me: TV does not have to be 100% error free and exact. It has to be our pleasure, visualizing our imaginations, our ideas, our dreams... And it was time we got the answer from a question directed to a dead person :)

::In the podcast, Ron Moore mentions that when Caprica-Sharon says "Why?" she is referring to Adama's question about "Why" humanity deserves to survive in the Miniseries, and that yeah it was confusing to put a scene of Adama asking "WHy" about something else in the same episode. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:45, 15 May 2006 (CDT)

== Fiber Optics ==

Any speculation on how fiber optics could interface via the arm in such away that the interface wouldn't appear on medical scans? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 11:16, 12 March 2006 (CST)
:Grace speculated that it was nanotechnology in an interview. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:53, 19 May 2006 (CDT)
::Link? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:56, 19 May 2006 (CDT)
:::One of the three linked to on this thread: http://s9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=4672
I don't recall which. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 08:07, 20 May 2006 (CDT)

== Nomenclature (Galactica/Caprica-Sharon)==
As stated in the article, it is becoming increasingly confusing to identify the two Eight models with their season one substitute names "Galactica-Sharon" and "Caprica-Sharon". Grace Park explained in several interviews, she herself – hence most of the crew presumably – began distinguishing them by calling Galactica-Sharon "Boomer" and Caprica-Sharon "Sharon". This seems to be a less bewildering (and more logical) way to designate both Cylons, therefore I would suggest at least to mention this form of distinction in the individual Number Eight articles or even to introduce "Boomer" and "Sharon" as generally acknowledged short names for the two characters within the Battlestar Wiki. --Enemy

:Welcome to BattlestarWiki, Enemy. You were not here when we did this, but "Caprica-Sharon" and "Galactica-Sharon" are actually the names we assigned them to ''avoid'' confusion. Over the past few months, this convention has actually proved very helpful and I'm sorry if you weren't used to it when you first arrived. Grace Park's thing from that article is actually kind of confusing and I hope that one day she learns of our conventions----->'''More to the point, the production team itself started adopting this fan-naming convention when they started using the name "[[Caprica-Six]]" on air'''. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:18, 7 April 2006 (CDT)

The Merovingian is right, Enemy- Yes, the cast and crew use Boomer and Sharon, but that's more convienient in spoken conversation. When it comes to text, Galactica/Caprica distinction is simpler. Yes, both are a bit confusing, but they are confusing to different people-I know people who will have more of a problem with Boomer/Sharon than Caprica/Galactica. As for the interviews, Tricia Helfer has consistently used the term "humanoid Cylons" to describe herself, Lucy Lawless, and the other models, but it has not been established as the official term by anyone- if every member of the cast and crew used the Boomer/Sharon system, fine, but Eick and RDM have both called Boomer "Sharon", which proves it's no more official than our system.- [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 14:30, 7 April 2006 (CDT)
:Well said Ragestorm. I mean her personal thing isn't widespread, RDM used both interchangeably, etc. However, by late season 2, they came up with the name "Caprica-Six", and if anyone here thinks that isn't a subtle reference to our fan naming convention, well, I mean it's not just here; ''Every'' website I've been on, official messageboards, GalacticaStation, we all just eventually started doing that. TelevisionwithoutPity.com formalized it, with a list of "Pegasus-Six = Six from Pegasus" etc etc etc. I personally think/hope that "Caprica-Six" is a sign that they've tacityly adopted the fan naming convention in the writers room. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:44, 7 April 2006 (CDT)

==Name==
In Occupation, her name was given as Sharon Agathon. Should we rename the article to that? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:21, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:I vote yes. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:47, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:I concur. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:18, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:I agree as well. ''Finally'' we can have a clear diffeentiation! Making the change now. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:59, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
::In which case the other one should become simply Sharon Valerii. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 00:23, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Disagree on that point, since there's still ambiguity present during the first two seasons. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:25, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy) redirects to Sharon Agathon, and Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy) will redirect to Sharon Valerii, so anyone searching using those terms will be okay. Anyone searching for Sharon Valerii will go to Boomer's page and see the disambiguation heading telling them to go to Sharon Agathon if they were looking for her, so that's no real problem. Also, wouldn't it be more precise for this page to be "Sharon Valerii Agathon", like "Cally Henderson Tyrol"? [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 09:29, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::Cally, it would seem, chose to take her husband's name while keeping her maiden name. Sharon did not neccessarily go the same route, and may have dropped "Valerii" all together. As Adama used "Sharon Agathon" to swear her in, I say that's pretty good evidence that that is officially and legally her name. Unless she's referred to as "Sharon Valerii Agathon" in the future, I say we stick with this name. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 11:15, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::That's what I was thinking. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:17, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::::That makes sense, but why don't we change Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy) to Sharon Valerii ("Boomer"), since that's a more accurate distinction, one which is actually used in the show. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:58, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::::Well, we could make G-Boomer's page just "Sharon Valerii," since there is a Number Eight and Sharon Agathon page that distingushes the other models. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:26, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::No. To repeat - someone searching for "Sharon Valerii" during the first two seasons should be sent to a disambig page, not G-Sharon's page. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:53, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::::::Okay, I can understand that. I guess we could keep the title as it is now, that could work. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:58, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::::Sharon Valerii ("Boomer") is the most logical title. She's called Boomer repeatedly on the show, never Galactica-Sharon. Sharon Agathon is always Sharon. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:39, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::::::::I'd settle for "Sharon "Boomer" Valerii", but I prefer the "(Galactica copy)" nomenclature, as it matches our current nomenclature for Cylon copies and is extendable to future copies. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:43, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::::::Calling them by place names works well enough informally, but "Boomer" is a distinguishing point between them from the show itself, and is less confusing now that she's not on Galactica. The only Cylon officially referred to by place name nomenclature is Caprica-Six. Number Three, who calls that Six, "Caprica", calls Boomer, "Boomer". This is the nomenclature being used by the characters. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:51, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::::::::::Your argument is persuasive, but I'm a little concerned that S. Agathon will use "Boomer" as her call sign now that she's an officer. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:12, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::Nothing points to that. I have a feeling that they'll reduce confusion by just keeping her as "Sharon". [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:42, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::Or, she could easily just as much use another call sign for fear of the "taint" on the "Boomer" call sign. Hell, she may end up calling herself "Sheba". ^_^ Seriously, while I suspect that she'll end up with a call sign, I don't think it'll be Boomer, and I think we could easily assign that to G-Sharon.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 10:49, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::On top of it, S&C states that we should use First Name Last Name unless the middle name is needed for disambiguation. BTW, do we have any canon source that Cally kept "Henderson" as her middle name, or did it just seem logical? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:51, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

:Also agree. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:24, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

:Regarding the callsign, in [http://galactica-station.blogspot.com/2006/10/recalling-callis.html this transcript] of a James Callis interview, she is referred to as Sharon ''"Athena"'' Agathon. Maybe Mitsukai is onto something! But probably just a typo... --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 13:35, 12 October 2006 (CDT)
::Let's wait until it's actually used in an official source. Sounds good, and I was hoping for a different callsign, although it means LOTS of [[Athena|disambiguration]] here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:58, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

== "Valerii" was never her last name ==

This article has a name convention problem throughout the text. "Valerii" is used as her quasi maiden name, but she never used that surname at all (see [[Talk:Sharon Valerii]]). I'm not sure how to change it though. Two possible solutions would be (1) calling her "Sharon" until she is married to Helo which would be informal, but probably most accurate, or (2) calling her "Agathon" right from the start. Maybe you have other suggestions. -- [[User:Enemy|Enemy]] 15:48, 29 October 2006 (CST)

:The use of first names only is against [[BW:SAC]] because of issues with informality. While this character was on Caprica, she uses the Sharon Valerii identity (if not necessarily speaking it) with Helo. There are no other aliases for the Eight models. The use of "Caprica-Valerii" or simply Valerii, from an encyclopedic viewpoint ''in this article'', minimizes confusion here. The article's content using her married name should change only in season 3 descriptions in her article. While [[Gina]]'s name was never spoken in dialogue, it doesn't hold true that that was not the character's name, per numerous podcasts by Ron Moore. I would rather hold to convention here than to quibble over what is an already confusing process to differentiate the Cylon models. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:23, 30 October 2006 (CST)

:I strongly agree, she should not be called Valerii in the text. This is factually wrong and only creates unnecessary confusion. Formality should not be more important than accuracy. The best solution would be to use some clever phrases as long as she assumed Valerii's identity (This second Valerii ...) and then refer to her as Sharon, because that is her only known name at this point. It could even be explaining (and justified) in the text that she identified herself with that name to Helo. [[User:Sloan|Sloan]] 09:27, 28 November 2006 (CST)

::The number 8 model on Caprica during season one was using the ''Sharon Valerii'' identity, just as the Galactica copy was. That the Caprica agent didn't have much opportunity to use her last name isn't really relevant, in my opinion.--[[User:Hylas|Hylas]] 10:59, 28 November 2006 (CST)
:::Of course she used Valerii's identity during season one, but I think it is inappropriate to use the name of an alias of hers in the text until events at the end of season two. When she identifies herself to Helo as a different Sharon, she should no longer be called Valerii. [[User:Sloan|Sloan]] 11:52, 28 November 2006 (CST)

== Pegasus ==

''She frequently provides intelligence, but is severely mistreated by an interrogator from Pegasus who beats and sexually assaults her.''

This makes it sound like it was a recurring thing. The Pegasus interrogator tried doing it only once, when he was stopped and killed by Helo and Tyrol. --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 13:23, 8 November 2006 (CST)

List of pilots

2006-12-09T20:30:41Z

Rocky8311: /* Vipers */

[[Image:Final_Cut-Thin_Line_of_Blue.jpg|thumb|300px|Pilots and other enlisted in a recreation room on ''Galactica.'']]
From the episodes "[[Act of Contrition]]" through "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", ''Galactica's'' combat ability was severely limited by her manpower - more so than her shortage of mechanical resources. This list was created to keep track of ''Galactica's'' current and former Viper pilots, Raptor pilots, and ECOs, and now includes members of the crew of ''Pegasus'' as well.

==Active==

===''Galactica''===

====Vipers====
* Captain [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]] - Galactica CAG.
* [[George Birch|George "Catman" Birch]] - briefly promoted from Lieutenant to Captain and CAG after [[Lee Adama]]'s defection. Current rank unknown ([[Home, Part I]]).
* Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]].
* Lt. [[Simes]] - senior pilot after Capt. [[Lee Adama]] and Lt. [[Kara Thrace]] ([[Fragged]]).
* [[Mueller (pilot)|Mueller]] - Described as a "malcontent" by [[William Adama]] ([[Home, Part I]]).
** ''The following callsigns have not been matched to names, so Simes and Mueller might be among their number.''
** "[[Joker]]" - Seen on whiteboard in "[[Act of Contrition]]" after the accident.
** "[[Stinger (Galactica)|Stinger]]" - Seen on whiteboard in "[[Act of Contrition]]" after the accident.
** "[[Hyper]]" - Seen on whiteboard in "[[Act of Contrition]]" after the accident.
** "[[Greenback]]" - Seen on whiteboard in "[[Act of Contrition]]" after the accident.
** "[[Spinner]]" - Flew in Strike Force One in the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]].
** "[[Deadbolt]]" - Flew in Strike Force One in the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]].
** "[[Buzzer]]" - Flew in Strike Force One in the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]].
** "[[Kingston]]" - Sorties against two Cylon Raiders in "[[Final Cut]]."
** "[[Grayshirt]]" - Sorties against two Cylon Raiders in "[[Final Cut]]."
** "[[Snake]]" - flew as [[Joseph Clark|Jo-Jo's]] wingman in "[[Scar]]."

=====Pilot Count=====
As of the [[Miniseries]], Starbuck informs Cmdr. [[William Adama]] that "there are 20 of us climbing the walls down in the Ready Room". This is excluding the 20 members of Ripper's wing already sortied, and Apollo, on escort detail, and probably doesn't include ECOs. Also in the miniseries, three Mark VII Vipers are seen in formation inside ''[[Colonial One]]'s'' ragtag caravan before they rendezvous with ''Galactica''. These could have been left behind with the non-FTL capable ships, or could have been carried to [[Ragnar]] in other ships as was Apollo's Viper.

After the accident in "[[Act of Contrition]]," Capt. Adama states to Lt. Thrace that there are 21 pilots remaining, by which he probably refers only to the Viper pilots. It is difficult to imagine that Sergeant [[Hadrian]] made the same distinction when she referred to the 13 killed and 7 injured in the incident, since the most notable victim was actually a Raptor, not a Viper pilot. Of the 11 present for funeral services, at least one ([[Crashdown]]) and possibly two (unidentified #4?) are known to be ECOs. [[Racetrack]] and the fourth ECO are clearly not present. Another one ("Boomer" Valerii) and possibly two (unidentified #5 or #7?) are known to be Raptor pilots. This leaves 7 to 9 Viper pilots depicted in this scene. Adding the 7 injured pilots, we have a total of 14 to 16 Viper pilots accounted for, implying that 5 to 7 surviving and uninjured pilots are not present for some reason (perhaps on [[Combat Air Patrol]] or other duty).

Eight nuggets were then recruited to fill out the ranks, including [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]], [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]] and [[Perry|Chuckles]], bringing the total to 29.
{| align="center"
| [[Image:Nuggetextra1.jpg|75px]] || [[Image:Nuggetextra2.jpg|75px]] || [[Image:Nuggetextra3.jpg|75px]] ||[[Image:Nuggetextra4.jpg|75px]] || [[Image:Nuggetextra5.jpg|35px]]
|-
| align="center" colspan="5" | Unidentified nuggets from "[[Act of Contrition]]." Pilot #3 ([[Stepchild]]) and one other were killed in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]."
|}
In "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]," Starbuck is seen giving combat flight training to an expanded class of 14 [[nugget]]s. Although not specifically discussed in this episode, it can only assumed that they have enlisted 6 more candidates from the civilian Fleet, probably from the "next group" that, according to Apollo, had "never even been in a cockpit" at the time of "[[Act of Contrition]]." Later in this episode, a total of 19 Vipers and 2 Raptors are deployed. (Starbuck is inactive at this time due to her [[You Can't Go Home Again|knee injury]].) [[Fireball]], [[Perry|Chuckles]], [[Stepchild]] and one unidentified pilot are killed in action, leaving ''Galactica'' with 31 Viper pilots. (According to scifi.com, three nuggets are killed and four Vipers destroyed in this episode, so we must assume that [[Stepchild]] and the unidentified death were among their number.)

In "[[Scattered]]," ''Galactica'' fields 18 Vipers. If no other pilots than [[Flyboy]] were killed in "[[Valley of Darkness]]," then with [[Joe Palladino]] in the brig, and with [[Louanne Katraine]] on medical leave, ''Galactica'' had at most 28 pilots available for duty by the end of the episode "[[Final Cut]]."

However, in the next episode, "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]," 42 Vipers are sortied -- not only more pilots, but also more planes than ''Galactica'' should have actually available. The most reasonable conclusion is that this is simply an effects gaffe. But if this is taken literally as an increase in their ranks, then ''Galactica'' may have inducted more than 6 extra nuggets into the squadron since "[[Act of Contrition]]," and may be continuing to recruit despite Kat's assertion in "[[Final Cut]]" that "there are no replacements coming up."

After encountering fellow battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', ''Galactica'' finally received a number of transfers to fill her depleted ranks. It's unlikely that any ''Pegasus'' crewmen were actually deployed against their compatriots at the climax of the episode. So, with Kat reinstated to flight status, but minus Apollo and Starbuck (transferred to ''Pegasus''), ''Galactica'' can muster 27 Vipers against ''Pegasus''. However, only 15 of ''Galactica's'' Mk. II Vipers can be clearly seen as the episode ends.

As of the episode "[[Scar]]," the Fleet has begun training many new nugget pilots in earnest (with flight simulators aboard the more-advanced ''Pegasus''), and will obtain enough metal ore from asteroid mining to construct 2 entire squadrons of Vipers on ''Pegasus'' (this battlestar has Viper production facilities that ''Galactica'' does not). Following "Scar", it will be more difficult to determine the exact number of Viper pilots (by subtracting the dead from pre-existing numbers) because their numbers are decisively growing.

====Raptors====
* Lt. [[Sharon Agathon]]
* Lt. [[Emmitt Jones|Emmitt "Sweetness" Jones]]
* Lt. C____ "Ranger" Rogers (Raptor 1 nameplate "Fragged").
* Lt. [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
* Lt. [[Jarrell Kier|Jarrell "Fuzzy" Kier]]

Others: ''Galactica'' is able to field six raptors simultaneously in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]." The crews of [[Raptor 1]] and [[Raptor 3]] are accounted for. [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] then pilots a raptor to the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in orbit of [[Kobol]], while three raptors are sent to board ''[[Colonial One]].'' These three probably did not need ECOs, given the target's lack of defensive options, but they certainly required pilots.

Note: [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] is qualified to pilot a Raptor ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]], [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]), and may have piloted one of the boarding party in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]." This would (awkwardly) mean that he flew himself back to ''Galactica'' while under arrest.

====ECOs====
*Unidentified ECO of Raptor 1 in "[[Fragged]]." [[Image:Fraggedextra2.jpg|75px]]
*Lt. [[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]]

Note: The survival of two specialist ECOs by the time of [[Fragged]] means Apollo's headcount of surviving pilots in "[[Act of Contrition]]" could not have included them.

====Others====
At least two other Raptor crew members are present at the briefing for the decommisioning ceremony ([[Miniseries]])
Present at funeral services in "[[Act of Contrition]]" are 11 pilots and ECOs, including Apollo, Starbuck, Boomer and Crashdown. The next ready room scene is in "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]," and features 20 people in addition to Apollo. Still present from the previous episode are:
*[[Image:Contritionextra2.jpg|30px]]
*[[Image:Contritionextra6.jpg|30px]]
*[[Image:Contritionextra3.jpg|30px]] - Several possible matches?

Note: Cmdr. [[William Adama|William "Husker" Adama]] flew a Viper Mk. II during the [[Cylon War]], and can also pilot a Raptor (as seen in "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]"). Col. [[Saul Tigh]] was also a Viper pilot of the same vintage, but there is less to suggest he has retained any sort of flight status.

===Pegasus===
====Vipers====
* Capt. [[Marcia Case|Marcia "Showboat" Case]] - leads [[Red Squadron (RDM)]] during the [[Battle of the Binary Star System]] in [[The Captain's Hand]]
* Lt. [[Noel Allison|Noel "Narcho" Allison]] - showed off his scorecard much to the ridicule of [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] in "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]" and was in the dog fight tangling with [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]."
* "[[Whiplash]]" - Mentioned in ''Pegasus'' ready room in "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]."
* "[[Thumper]]" - Mentioned in ''Pegasus'' ready room in "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]."
* "[[Rock Star]]" - part of dog fight in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]."
* "[[Catbird]]" - leads [[Green Squadron]] during the [[Battle of the Binary Star System]] in "[[The Captain's Hand]]".

====Raptors====
* Lt. [[Steve Fleer|Steve "Red Devil" Fleer]] - leader of Raptor SAR group in [[The Captain's Hand]]. (Note: This pilot wears a jacket with a Viper patch in the scene where Starbuck confronts the Pegasus pilots in TCH.)

===Assignment Unknown===
*"[[Headcase]]" - first pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Swordsman]]" - second pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Anvil]]" - third pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Chinstrap]]" - fourth pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Gumball]]" - fifth pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Raw Meat]]" - ninth pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Toyon]]" - tenth pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Strakus]]" - eleventh pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Playboy]]" - twelfth pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Polo]]" - thirteenth pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Casey]]" - fourteenth pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Adonis]]" - fifteenth pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Gully Man]]" - sixteenth pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Star Cloud]]" - seventeenth pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.
*"[[Callan]]" - nineteenth pilot to check in during Caprica Rescue Mission.

==Inactive==

===''Galactica''===

====Vipers====
* Lt. [[Joe Palladino|Joe "Hammerhead" Palladino]] - In the [[brig]] for assaulting [[Saul Tigh]] as of "[[Final Cut]]".

====Raptors====
* Lt. JG [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii (Galactica Copy)]] - currently part of the Cylon leadership

====ECOs====
*Lt. JG. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]] - currently serving in the Galactica CIC.

===''Pegasus''===

====Vipers====
* Capt. [[Cole Taylor|Cole "Stinger" Taylor]] - in the [[brig]] for mouthing off at Commander [[Barry Garner]] as of [[The Captain's Hand]].

==Deceased==

===Galactica===
Twelve (12) others - dead ([[Act of Contrition]])

====Vipers====
* Capt. [[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]] - KIA ([[Miniseries]], First sortie)
* Lt. [["Jolly" Anders]] - KIA [[Miniseries]] (First sortie)
* Eighteen (18) other Viper Mk. VII pilots - KIA ([[Miniseries]], First sortie)
* One Mk. II pilot - KIA ([[Miniseries]], Second sortie)
* Seven Mk. II pilots - KIA ([[Miniseries]], Third sortie)
* One Mk. VII pilot - KIA ([[Miniseries]], Third sortie)
* "[[Fireball]]" - KIA ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])
* Unidentified Viper pilot (a nugget) - KIA ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])
* Cadet "[[Stepchild]]" - KIA ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])
* Cadet [[Perry|"Chuckles" Perry]] - KIA ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])
* "[[Flyboy]]" - KIA ([[Valley of Darkness]])
* [[Reilly]] - KIA ([[Scar]])
* "[[Beano]]" - KIA ([[Scar]])
* Ensign [[Brent Baxton|Brent "BB" Baxton]] - KIA ([[Scar]])
* Ensign [[Joseph Clark|Joseph "Jo-Jo" Clark]] - KIA ([[Scar]])
* [[Nora]] - KIA ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance#Episode 4|The Resistance: Episode 4]])
* Lt. [[Tucker Clellan|Tucker "Duck" Clellan]] - KIA ([[Occupation]])

====Raptors====
* Lt. JG [[Dwight Saunders|Dwight "Flat Top" Saunders]] - Dead ([[Act of Contrition]])
* Unidentified pilot of [[Raptor 3]]. - KIA ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]) [[Image:HoGextra2.jpg|75px]]
* Lt. P____ "[[Karma]]" Baker - KIA ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])

====ECOs====
* Unidentified ECO of [[Raptor 3]]. May be the same person as Unidentified Uninjured Pilot #4 above. KIA ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]) [[Image:HoGextra1.jpg|75px]]
* Lt. [[Alex Quartararo|Alex "Crashdown" Quartararo]] - KIA ([[Fragged]])

===Pegasus===
====Raptors====
* Lt. [[Richard Bayer|Richard "Buster" Bayer]] - KIA [[The Captain's Hand]]
* Unidentified pilot of [[Raptor 314]] - KIA [[The Captain's Hand]]

====ECOs====
* [[Lyla Ellway|Lyla "Shark" Ellway]] - KIA [[The Captain's Hand]]
* Unidentified ECO of [[Raptor 314]] - KIA [[The Captain's Hand]]

===Assignment Unknown===
* [[Dipper (RDM)]] - KIA before "[[Scar]]"
* [[Sheppard]] - KIA before "[[Scar]]"
* [[Dash]] - KIA before "[[Scar]]"
* [[Puppet]] - KIA before "[[Scar]]"
* [[Tough Guy]], [[Raptor 612]] - KIA "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]"
* [[Carousel]], [[Raptor 612]] - KIA "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]"

==Status Unknown==

n.b. the majority of these are [[:Category:Mentioned-Only|mentioned-only]] characters or extras.

===Galactica===

====Vipers====
* [[Ice Cap]] - Seen on whiteboard in "[[33]]," but not after the accident in "Act of Contrition" (his slot is replaced by Crashdown)
* [[T-Bone]] - Part of Apollo's squadron in "[[33]]," [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#33|deleted scene]]. 13 unidentified pilots killed since.
* [[Wedge]] - Part of Apollo's squadron in "[[33]]," [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#33|deleted scene]]. 13 unidentified pilots killed since.
* [[Winger]] - Part of Apollo's squadron in "[[33]]," [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#33|deleted scene]]. 13 unidentified pilots killed since.
* [[Beehive]] - Apollo's wingman in "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]." One unidentified Viper pilot killed since (a nugget).

====Raptors====
* [[Stubbs]] - A Raptor pilot in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]." One unidentified Raptor pilot killed since.

====Others====
Present at funeral services in "[[Act of Contrition]]" are 11 pilots and ECOs, including Apollo, Starbuck, Boomer and Crashdown. The next ready room scene is in "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]," and features 20 people in addition to Apollo. Not present from the previous episode are:

*[[Image:Contritionextra1.jpg|30px]] - Not present at Apollo's briefing
*[[Image:Contritionextra4.jpg|30px]] - Not present at Apollo's briefing. May have been the unidentified ECO of [[Raptor 3]] ([[Image:HoGextra1.jpg|30px]]), KIA in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
*[[Image:Contritionextra5.jpg|30px]] - Not present at Apollo's briefing. May have been [[Karma]], KIA in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]"
*[[Image:Contritionextra7.jpg|30px]] - Not present at Apollo's briefing. May have been [[Karma]], KIA in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]"

In the intervening time, one unidentified Viper pilot, one unidentified Raptor pilot, and one unidentified ECO were killed.

====Previous Pilots with Unknown Flight Status====

This is a listing of people who were, at one time or another, active pilots post-Fall of the Twelve Colonies. They are listed here because their flight status is unspecified.

* Cmdr. [[Lee Adama]] - battlestar commander, ''Pegasus'' ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

[[Category: A to Z]] [[Category: Characters|*]] [[Category: RDM]]

Adriatic

2006-12-09T20:07:04Z

Rocky8311: not "all hands" were lost...

{{Ship Data
| image=
| race= Colonial
| type= Civilian
| ftl= Yes
| crew= Unknown
| role= Unknown
| weapons= Short range ship-ship missiles
}}

The '''''Adriatic''''' is the first ship in [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]] other than ''[[Galactica]]'' and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' that is known to viewers to have weapons. ''Adriatic'' is armed with ship-to-ship missiles of a limited range.

This ship, or at least a majority of her crew, were part of [[Roslin Faction|Roslin's fleet]].

It is in weapon's range of [[Kara Thrace]] and her party's stolen [[Cylon Heavy Raider]] when it returns from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], though it does not fire ([[Home, Part I]]).

The ''Adriatic'' was permanently lost along with its skeleton crew during its passage through a radioactive star cluster after Lieutenant [[Brendan Constanza]] fails to locate and shepherd the ship to safety ([[The Passage]]).

==Notes==
The name of the ''Adriatic'' is yet another naming anomaly, as it appears to be named after the [[Wikipedia:Adriatic Sea|Adriatic Sea]], an arm of the [[Wikipedia:Mediterranean Sea|Mediterranean Sea]] that separates Italy from the Balkan peninsula on [[Earth]].

In addition to the ocean, the [[Wikipedia:White Star Line|White Star Line]] named two of its vessels ''Adriatic'', one entering service in [[Wikipedia:SS Adriatic (1871)|1871]] and the other in [[Wikipedia:RMS Adriatic (1907)|1907]]

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Pegasus (TRS)

2006-12-08T19:20:09Z

Rocky8311:

:''This article discusses the [[Mercury class battlestar]] from the [[Re-imagined Series]]. ''
:''For information on the ship's debut episode, see [[Pegasus (episode)]]. For information on the [[Original Series]] [[Battlestar (TOS)|battlestar]] of the same name, see [[Pegasus (TOS)]].''

{{Ship Data|
image= BSPegasus.jpg
| title= Pegasus (BS 62)
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= Approximately 1,750
| co= [[Lee Adama]] (At time of loss)
| xo= [[Anastasia Dualla]] (At time of loss)
| role= Carrier / Battleship
| weapons= Primary and point-defense [[KEW|Kinetic Energy Weapons]], conventional missiles, nuclear warheads, Vipers, Raptors
| status= Destroyed in [[Battle of New Caprica]]
| img= Y
}}
'''''Pegasus'' (BS 62)''' was a [[Mercury class battlestar|''Mercury'' class battlestar]], whose earliest-known commander was Rear Admiral [[Helena Cain]].

Much more advanced in size, strength, and technology than the decommissioned battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'', ''Pegasus'' had been presumed destroyed in the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] by the [[The Fleet (RDM)|last of humanity]]. In actuality it survived, reunited with ''Galactica'' and the civilian fleet, and served a significant role in the Colonial struggle for survival until the [[Battle of New Caprica|exodus]] from [[New Caprica]].

==History==
While ''Pegasus'' was advanced enough to have the [[Command Navigation Program]] installed, which the Cylons used as a backdoor, ''Pegasus'' had just checked in to the [[Scorpian Fleet Shipyards]] for a three-month refit at the time of the Cylon attack. As such, almost all of its networked [[Computers|computer]] systems were offline. As a result, the Cylons were not able to immobilize the ship using computer infiltration. Combined with the sheer luck of the multiple targets that the Cylons enjoyed, the nuclear detonations temporarily blinded the Cylon [[DRADIS]]. Her options limited, Admiral Cain ordered her ship to [[Blind jump|randomly jump without a coordinates check]].

While saving the battlestar, the risky blind jump was not the end of their troubles. An indeterminate amount of time later, a [[Cylon agent]] known as [[Gina]] allowed a party of [[Cylon Centurion]]s to board the ship, resulting in approximately 700 deaths. When Gina was discovered, she killed 7 men before she was subdued. Once imprisoned, ''Pegasus''' commander instituted a new policy of Cylon interrogation for Gina: by brutal gang-rape.

After their escape, ''Pegasus'' occupied itself with hit-and-run attacks on various Cylon assets. It participated in a bold assault on a staging area filled with fifteen squadrons of [[Raider]]s. When Cain's long-time [[Executive officer]] expressed hesitancy to launch the ships' fighters against such odds, Cain publicly executed him on the bridge and promoted [[Jack Fisk]] to replace him. Fisk tells this story (and later recants it) while drunk to Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]], which Tigh believed to be true when he recounts it in turn to Commander Adama.

Some time later, ''Pegasus'' discovered that a Cylon fleet it was tracking appeared to be jumping, not randomly, but to systems with natural resources. The battlestar accidentally encountered [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] led by battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'' when ''Pegasus'' jumped ahead to scout the Cylon target's projected next position (as it turned out, the Cylons were jumping to systems ''Galactica'' had passed through or explored). Cain assumes overall command of the Fleet and began transferring supplies and many personnel between the two battlestars, including Captain [[Lee Adama]] and Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]]. Cain appeared unconcerned with the needs of the civilians and their ships, a problem noted to Commander Adama by President [[Laura Roslin]].

Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] mentioned during his interrogation by Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] that he served aboard a number of battlestars in his military career, including ''Pegasus'' ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]). If Admiral Cain ever knew him during this time, she makes no mention of it, and has no reservations sentencing him and [[Karl Agathon]] to death when they inadvertently kill Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne]], Cain's chief "Cylon interrogator". [[William Adama]], commander of ''Galactica'', refuses to permit the execution, precipitating an armed standoff between the two ships ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

The battlestar commanders later set aside their animosity and join forces to successfully destroy the Resurrection Ship. However in the midst of celebration, Cain is killed by Gina, who escapes from the battlestar ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

Admiral Cain is succeeded by [[Jack Fisk]], who in turn is murdered after running afoul of the Fleet's illicit black market ([[Black Market]]). ''Pegasus'' is briefly commanded by engineer-turned-commander [[Barry Garner]], who dies saving the ship during the [[Battle of the Binary Star System]]. ''Pegasus''' final commander was [[Lee Adama]], with his wife [[Anastasia Dualla]] later serving as his XO.

''Pegasus'' becomes unofficially known as "The Beast" within the Fleet, although it is not known if the nickname came from her tenacity in combat or the battlestar's sordid crew history ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

==New Caprica==

Following the founding of [[New Caprica]], ''Pegasus'' is assigned to the Orbital Defense Force that protects the planet. During this time, Commander [[Lee Adama]] keeps an emergency supply of medication aboard for the pilots, despite the fact that their crew are severely depleted due to colonization of the planet. One year after the founding the colony, the Cylons return in force. Unable to defend the planet, ''Pegasus'' and the remaining ships orbiting the planet jump away ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

Four months later, ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'' plan a rescue mission to recover the people left on the planet ([[Occupation]]). While the plans initially called for the involvement of ''Pegasus'' in the recovery, Admiral Adama decides that the remnants of the Fleet, the last free people of humanity, should not be left unprotected if things went awry. Adama takes ''Galactica'' in the rescue effort without ''Pegasus'', ordering his son to stay with the Fleet at a rendezvous point to await their return ([[Precipice]], [[Exodus, Part I]]).

Despite Adama's orders, ''Pegasus'' leaves her fighters to protect the remains of the Fleet and returns to New Caprica to participate in the rescue. ''Pegasus'' jumps into the fight and finds ''Galactica'' under fire from four Cylon basestars. ''Pegasus'' destroys one of the baseships with her forward batteries and attracts the attention of the others while ''Galactica'' repairs its FTL drive and prepares to jump away.

''Pegasus'' reels from the onslought of missiles from the remaining Cylon basestars. It becomes clear to Admiral Adama that ''Pegasus's'' trip was one-way. Following ''Galactica's'' jump, Commander Adama sets his battlestar's batteries on auto-fire and orders the crew to abandon ship, pausing just long enough to give his dying command a quiet thanks. As the evacuation Raptors jump away, ''Pegasus'', now completely unmanned, collides with a basestar, destroying it. As ''Pegasus'' explodes, the remains of her starboard [[flight pod]] collides with another basestar, destroying it as well ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

==A Lost Civilian Fleet==

It was later revealed that ''Pegasus'' originally had its own small fleet of 15 civilian ships, found about a week after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. The tiny caravan was equipped with FTL drives and weapons. Rather than defending them (as ''Galactica'' had at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]), Admiral Cain saw them as potential spare parts for ''Pegasus'', and decided that ''Pegasus' '' military needs were a priority over them. The civilian ships were stripped for parts, including their weapons and FTL drives, marooning them and leaving them completely at the mercy of the Cylons when Cain left.

However not all of the civilians were left to die. After looking over the passenger lists, Cain selected those civilians who she thought would be of value (such as [[Peter Laird]], an aeronautical engineer), forcibly drafting them into her crew. However, fifteen 'selectees' aboard the civilian transport ''[[Scylla]]'' were traveling with their families and refused to leave without them. Admiral Cain ordered her marines to kill two families (men, women, and children) to shock the rest into submission. ''Pegasus'' then abandoned the civilian ships to pursue Admiral Cain's campaign of hit-and-run attacks against Cylon forces ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]).

==Equipment==
[[Image:TheEnemysGateIsDown3.jpg|thumb|right|Pegasus taking heavy fire]]
In the [[Pegasus (Extended Version)|Extended Cut]] of the episode "Pegasus" Admiral Cain states that the ship is nearly twice the size of ''Galactica'', but needs only half the crew. This probably refers to either the dual [[landing bay|landing bays]] or the ship's volume, but not its length. The decreased manpower requirement stems from increased computerization and automation. This is also evident in the comparatively small size of the ''Pegasus'' [[CIC]].
[[Image:PegasusForeBatteries.jpg|thumb|right|Pegasus firing her forward batteries]]

''Pegasus'' operates at least four [[Viper Mark VII]] squadrons, all verbally identified in the episode "[[The Captain's Hand]]":
*[[Red Squadron (RDM)|Red Squadron]]
*[[Yellow Squadron]]
*[[Green Squadron]]
*[[Blue Squadron (RDM)|Blue Squadron]]

It is possible that these designations are just [[wireless]] code names and not formal, standing squadrons. The colors and group leaders could be assigned on an ad-hoc basis, while a more formal structure exists in the background; such as the [[Vigilantes]] on ''Galactica''. However, these squadrons are also marked on DRADIS as such. ([[The Captain's Hand]])

''Pegasus'' has [[Viper Mark VII]] production facilities ([[Scar]]). This is a capability that would allow the ship to be self sufficient on extended deployments, so long as the battlestar has sufficient means to gather the raw materials necessary for construction.

In "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" ''Pegasus'' is shown to have built in electronic countermeasure (ECM) generators as it deviates missiles away from the ship.

==Crew==
====Senior Staff at Time of Destruction====
*Commander [[Lee Adama]] - Commanding Officer
*Lieutenant [[Anastasia Dualla]] - [[Executive Officer]]
*Lieutenant [[Hoshi]] - Communications or [[Tactical Officer]]

====Former Members of the Senior Staff====
*Admiral [[Helena Cain]] - Commanding Officer (Killed by [[Gina]])
*Commander [[Jack Fisk]] - Commanding Officer (Killed by racketeers in the [[Black market (organization)|black market]])
*Commander [[Barry Garner]] - Commanding Officer (Killed in action)
*Captain [[Cole Taylor]] - [[CAG|Commander, Air Group]] (Demoted by Admiral Cain)
*Captain [[Kara Thrace]] - Commander, Air Group (Replaced Cole Taylor in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]" but transferred to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' in "[[The Captain's Hand]]")
*Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne]] - Cylon Interrogator (Killed by [[Galen Tyrol]])

==Notes==
*According to [[David Eick]]'s video blog, it would have been impossible to afford creating new sets for the entire interior of ''Pegasus'' on the budget of an episodic television show. This expense was circumvented when a year beforehand Ron D. Moore and David Eick bought (for next to nothing) the abandoned sets of the failed pilot for the FOX network's "Lost In Space" remake, directed by John Woo. The production team then held onto the sets hoping to find some later use for them, eventually using them for "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]". The sets were then radically redesigned and painted to give them the aesthetic look of ''Galactica'', but sleeker and more advanced.
*This ship is named after [[w:Pegasus|the winged horse from Greek mythology]].

== Related Imagery ==

<gallery>
Image:Pegasus01.jpg|''Pegasus'' - Front view    
Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_1a.jpg|''Pegasus'' - Vipers landing    
Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_5a.jpg|''Pegasus'' - Gun batteries    
Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_3a.jpg|''Pegasus'' - Next to ''Galactica''    
Image:Pegasus 217 1080i rescale.jpg|''Pegasus'' - Side angle    
Image:Pegasus2_217_1080i_rescale.jpg|''Pegasus'' - Reverse side    
Image:Pegasus flight pod turret.jpg|''Pegasus'' flight pod turrets
Image:Pegasus engine room.jpg|A part of ''Pegasus'''s engine room.
</gallery>

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Battlestars]]
[[Category:Battlestars (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[es:Pegasus (RDM)]]

Shelly Godfrey

2006-12-08T18:02:16Z

Rocky8311: Doral was once in custody, his photo's origin isn't so mysterious

:''This page is about Shelly Godfrey, the copy of Cylon Model Number Six who tries to expose [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] as a traitor. See the [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Gina]] articles for information about them. For other copies, see the [[Number Six]] article.''

{{NPOV}}

{{Character Data
|photo=bsg-1-07.jpg
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Cylon infiltrator
|rank=
|actor= [[Tricia Helfer]]
|cylon= y
|name=
}}

"'''Shelly Godfrey'''" is the pseudonym adopted by an incarnation of [[Number Six]] that arrives on board battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'' with a mission to apparently expose [[Gaius Baltar]] as a traitor ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).

Her real aim, however, is to further push Baltar to a point where his only hope of salvation appears to be his complete acceptance of the Cylon concept of "[[God]]". Indeed, once he has reached this point, she rapidly goes into hiding (possibly unwittingly helped by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] on the ''Galactica''?) and later probably removes herself from the ship - or destroys herself.

During her time on the ''Galactica'', "Godfrey" very much reveals her underlying nature is very similar to that of her "sisters" as she attempts to seduce [[William Adama]]. She also claimed to have had an affair with Dr. [[Amorak]].

Her appearance on the ''Galactica'' seems to give the clearest indication of all that Baltar's Six is an independent intelligence implanted in his head - and that, for all its statements to the contrary - it is somehow in contact with other [[Cylon agent|Cylon agents]] within the fleet (or at least in communication with any of its "sisters" which may be in the fleet). The appearance of "Shelly Godfrey" and the "disappearance" of Six from Baltar's mind is otherwise too coincidental to be believable.

A file photo of Godfrey exists in President [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]]'s office aboard ''[[Colonial One]]'' as part of a dossier of identified Cylon agents. When, where, and how this photo was acquired is not known ("[[Epiphanies]]").

=== Notes ===

*Some fans have speculated that Ms. Godfrey was a physical manifestation of [[Cylon-Related_Hallucinations#Baltar.27s_Internal_Six|Baltar's Internal Six]], given her mysterious disappearance and her apparent goal of covertly helping Baltar, whom the other Cylons have not shown an interest in beyond his help in setting up the sneak attack (e.g. Centurions attacking his party in "[[Fragged]]," [[D'anna Biers|Ms. Biers]]' lack of any special interest in him beyond that which she had in any other Galactica resident in "[[Final Cut]]," etc.) It is unclear whether this will ever be resolved.

*The last name [http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Godfrey '''Godfrey'''] is a derivative from Old French which in turn derives from the Old High German male proper name Godafrid meaning "the peace of God".

[[Category:A to Z|Godfrey, Shelly]]
[[Category:Characters|Godfrey, Shelly]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Godfrey, Shelly]]
[[Category:Cylons|Godfrey, Shelly]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)|Godfrey, Shelly]]
[[Category:RDM|Godfrey, Shelly]]

Sharon Valerii

2006-12-08T17:55:54Z

Rocky8311: she's definitely not a colonial officer anymore

:''This article concerns the copy of Cylon Model [[Number Eight]] first seen on [[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]] who was in love with [[Galen Tyrol]] and shot by [[Cally]].
: ''For information on Sharon "Athena" Agathon first seen on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], who marries [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and becomes a Colonial Officer, see [[Sharon Agathon]]. For information about the various copies see [[Number Eight]].''
{{Character Data
|photo=Sharon.PNG
|age=
|colony= None (supposedly [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Aerelon|Aerelon]])
|birthname=
|servicen= T-990429
|callsign= Boomer
|seen= Miniseries
|death= Shot by [[Cally]] and reborn ("[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]")
|parents= None (supposedly [[Abraham Valerii|Abraham]] and [[Catherine Valerii]])
|siblings= None in the traditional sense (supposedly one, per photo in "[[Downloaded]]")
|children=
|marital status= Single, was in relationship with [[Galen Tyrol]]
|role= Cylon infiltrator, saboteur; [[Raptor]] pilot
|rank= Formerly a Lieutenant, Junior Grade
|actor= [[Grace Park]]
|cylon= y
|name= Sharon Valerii
}}
'''Sharon "Boomer" Valerii''' is a copy of the Cylon human model [[Number Eight]] who is initially planted as a "sleeper" agent in the [[Colonial Fleet]]. She is unaware of her Cylon nature and serves for two years as Lieutenant Valerii on ''Galactica'', where she is assigned as a [[Raptor]] pilot and also engaged in a secret relationship with Chief [[Galen Tyrol]]. After the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], her underlying programming repeatedly emerges which leads her to unconscious acts of sabotage. Growing confusion about her true self result in a deep depression and a failed suicide attempt. After Valerii returns from a successful mission to destroy a Cylon [[basestar]], she shoots [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] in the chest, wounding him critically. She is incarcerated in the [[brig]] and soon afterwards killed by Specialist [[Cally]].

Her consciousness is downloaded and she is reborn in another body. Subsequently, she experiences severe problems integrating into Cylon society and long considers herself more human than Cylon. She eventually works together with [[Caprica-Six]] in an attempt to change Cylon popular opinion about humans and she emerges as one of the Cylon leaders jointly responsible for the end of the occupation of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] and later the Cylon occupation on [[New Caprica]].
== Biography ==

=== Life on Galactica ===
Valerii is a "sleeper" agent, unsuspecting of her Cylon status. As far as she is aware, she was born on the mining colony of [[Troy]], as the daughter of a family from [[Aerelon]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]). Troy itself was destroyed in an unexplained cataclysm, allowing Valerii's background to be established as that of an orphan. Following her arrival on board ''Galactica'', she enters into a relationship with the ship's Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]], which is against military protocols concerning fraternization between officers and non-officers. Whether this is unintentional or a subconscious reaction to her Cylon programming remains unclear.

At the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], Valerii is flying her Raptor to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] with ''[[Galactica]]'s'' last remaining operational [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] squadron, when they learn of the attacks and attempt to engage two [[Cylon Raider]]s. However, the Viper squadron is destroyed, and the Raptor is damaged while trying to escape, forcing Valerii and her [[ECO]] [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]] to make an emergency landing on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. After repairing the Raptor, they are mobbed by desperate civilians and undertake a rescue operation, lifting a number of children and several adults from the planet. However, Agathon chooses to give up his place aboard the Raptor so that Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] can be rescued ([[Miniseries]]).

After being found by [[Laura Roslin]]'s group of stranded military and civilian ships, Valerii works within the new civilian [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], assisting Roslin's attempts to gather other stranded civilian ships in the space surrounding Caprica. She finds a number of ships critical to the fledgling Fleet's survival, such as a fuel tanker. After the new assembled Fleet, led by ''Galactica'', leaves the solar system of the Colonies, Valerii aids in other critical acts, including the discovery of a [[tylium]]-rich asteroid, replete with an active Cylon mine ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]), and locating a source of water to replenish the Fleet's lost supply after the sabotage of ''Galactica's'' stores ([[Water]]).

=== Acts of sabotage ===
[[image:sharontyrol.jpg|170px|left|Valerii and Chief Tyrol.|thumb]]
At the same time as she is supporting the human Fleet, Valerii's underlying Cylon subroutines periodically emerge. Her Cylon programming is the cause of the sabotage of ''Galactica's'' water tanks ([[Water]]). Later, she likely assists a copy of [[Aaron Doral]] to access a munitions store. The Doral copy constructs a suicide bomb which nearly kills [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]].

Valerii finds herself soaking wet, after she awakes to her human personality shortly after the bombs used to destroy ''Galactica's'' water tanks were planted. She becomes increasingly concerned and starts to question her true self. Her worry increases when she experiences a certain attachment to a captured [[Cylon Raider]], and is able to give insight into how it can be properly assessed and understood ([[Six Degrees of Separation]], [[Flesh and Bone]]). Her concerns are further elevated when, following the bombing by Doral, ''Galactica's'' [[Master-at-Arms]], Sergeant [[Hadrian]], suspects her and Tyrol of Cylon complicity ([[Litmus]]).

Tyrol distances himself from Valerii after this incident, and he later ends their relationship following the arrest of Specialist [[Socinus]] ([[Litmus]]). Facing Tyrol's suspicions concerning her activities immediately before the bombing, Valerii finds herself emotionally isolated and stressed. She takes the Cylon detector test created by Dr. [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]], but he hides her positive test result in fear that once discovered, she might immediately retaliate and kill him ([[Flesh and Bone]]). Valerii finds short solace in Baltar's test, but deals with an anonymous accusation, when she finds the word "Cylon" written on the mirror of her locker; though it is possible she wrote it herself, unknowingly ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).

[[Image:Valshootadama.jpg|235px|thumb|right|Valerii shoots Commander Adama.|thumb]]
Frightened and alone, Valerii withdraws into herself and attempts suicide, but is initially unable to do so. During her second attempt, she is interrupted by Dr. Baltar who, rather than discouraging her, essentially gives her his blessing on her suicide. Following his departure from the bunkroom, Valerii succeeds in shooting herself, but her Cylon personality apparently interrupts the attempt. Valerii can only wound herself in her right cheek ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

After [[Kara Thrace]] absconds with a captured Cylon Raider intended for an attack on a basestar orbiting [[Kobol]], Commander Adama asks Valerii and ECO [[Margaret Edmondson|Racetrack]] to use a [[Cylon transponder]] in their Raptor to infiltrate the basestar and place a nuclear warhead within to destroy it. The mission is a success, but when the weapon would not auto-release from the Raptor after landing, Valerii exits the ship and enters the basestar. Inside, she encounters a dozen copies of herself, confirming her worst fears. Valerii escapes in the Raptor just before the warhead detonates and destroys the basestar. Back on ''Galactica'', her encounter with her copies on the basestar apparently triggers Valerii's Cylon programming to emerge once more, as she shoots Commander Adama in the chest while being congratulated on her successful mission in [[CIC]], wounding him critically ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).

=== Imprisonment and death ===
Valerii is quickly restrained by guards and jailed in the [[brig]]. During her imprisonment, Tigh attempts to forcibly extract information from her at gunpoint, but Valerii stonewalls him and even asks him to shoot her ([[Scattered]]). Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] is later incarcerated in the same brig cell by Col. Tigh, also suspected of being a Cylon. While imprisoned together, Valerii tries to convince Tyrol that her feelings for him were real and important, but he rejects her and threatens to kill her if she touched him.
[[Image:Sharondeath.jpg|235px|Valerii dies in Tyrol's arms.|right|thumb]]
Dr. [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] later enters the cell, ostensibly to collect a blood sample from Tyrol to prove his innocence using the [[Cylon detector]], but he instead injects Tyrol with a potent toxin that would kill him in a matter of seconds if Baltar does not give him an antidote. Baltar interrogates Valerii, demanding to know how many other Cylons are in the Fleet, using the dying Tyrol to blackmail her. Valerii first protests that she does not know, but as Tyrol is about to die, she reveals that there are eight other Cylons in the Fleet and Baltar then revives Tyrol.

Soon after, while being transferred to a new reinforced cell built to hold Cylons for later experiments, a large crowd of crewmembers jeers at her and calls her a traitor. An enraged [[Cally]] breaks through the crowd holding a gun and shoots Valerii at point-blank range. Valerii's last words are "I love you, Chief", as she dies in Tyrol's arms ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).

Valerii's body is sent to the morgue and autopsied. Later, the recovered [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] visits her corpse, asking "why" aloud, and weeps over her body. Adama pronounces a very mild reprimand for Cally, sentencing her to 30 days in the brig for discharging a weapon without authorization. Cally is never tried for murder, since Cylons are not seen as people ([[The Farm]]).

===Rebirth and life among Cylons===
[[Image:Cylon resurrection.jpg|235px|thumb|left|Valerii is reborn in a new body.|thumb]]
Valerii's consciousness does not die. When Cally shoots Valerii, ''Galactica'' is close enough to a Cylon [[Resurrection Ship|resurrection ship]] so that her consciousness is retrieved for download into another body. On rebirth, Valerii rejects her Cylon nature and continues to call herself "Sharon" instead of "Eight," even going so far as to reclaim her former apartment on Caprica. A copy of [[Number Three]], representing the status quo of the Cylons, is deeply disturbed by this and suggests that Valerii be "[[boxed]]."

[[Caprica-Six]] who is seen as a war hero among Cylons just as Valerii, protests and Three advises her to get Valerii to change. When Valerii laments the loss of Tyrol, Caprica-Six tells her about her own love for a human, [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]], which prompts Valerii to inform her that he is still alive. Suspecting that Three has an ulterior motive and wants to box both of them, the two play along and Valerii announces her intent to move out of her old apartment. After a [[Caprica Resistance]] bombing, Valerii, Three, and Caprica-Six are trapped in a garage with a member of the human resistance, [[Samuel Anders]]. There, Caprica-Six reveals their true intentions and declares that Valerii and herself are celebrities in a culture of unity, and, through their love for humans, have realized the horror of the Cylons' actions. Using their celebrity, they could convince a large portion of the Cylon society of their new belief that the genocide of humanity was wrong. Valerii stops Anders from killing Three, but is surprised to see as Caprica-Six kills Three herself. After telling Anders to escape, Valerii agrees to help Caprica-Six reveal the truth of the genocide to the other Cylons ([[Downloaded]]).

Valerii and Caprica-Six are obviously successful in their attempt to change popular opinion among Cylons about the genocide on the human race. According to a [[Cavil]] model who is shortly incarcerated on board ''Galactica'', Valerii and Caprica-Six convinced a majority that "the slaughter of mankind was a mistake" which ultimately leads to an end of the occupation of the [[Twelve Colonies]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).

One year later, Valerii is one of the leaders of the Cylon force occupying [[New Caprica]]. But as other Cylons start to consider the occupation a failure, her influence appears to decrease quickly, most evident when she is unable to help [[Cally]] get out of detention, as Cally is about to be executed ([[Precipice]]). Their initial plan on New Caprica, "to push past the conflict that separated us from humans for so long", fails and the occupation is ended after four month ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

Currently, Valerii is believed to be on the same [[baseship]] as [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]], but until now she has not been clearly identified among the many Eights on board the Cylon vessel ([[Hero]]).

==Notes==
*This [[Number Eight]] is often just called "Boomer" colloquially, as the callsign is more closely associated with her than with [[Sharon Agathon]], who is usually called "Sharon" and more recently "Athena". Until season 3, this copy was referred to as the ''Galactica'' copy ("''Galactica''-Sharon"), because she was first encountered on ''Galactica''.
*[[Number Six]] rhetorically asks Baltar in "[[Flesh and Bone]]" why he thinks that Valerii got her callsign, "Boomer."
**As shown twice in "[[Water]]" and by her destruction of the basestar in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]," the Sharon Valerii appeared to have a penchant for blowing things up. This is inconsistent with her [[Boomer (TOS)|namesake]] from the [[TOS|Original Series]].
**Number Six could have been using sexual innuendo when she rhetorically asked why Sharon Valerii's callsign was "Boomer." For example, regarding "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]," actress [[Grace Park]] said in interviews that she was so determined to make an enthusiastic lovemaking scene, i.e. copious amounts of moaning and the like, that when the scene director finished they flat out said their footage would have to be heavily edited.
**Alternately, this may be a script joke referring to the anime ''[[Wikipedia:Bubblegum Crisis|Bubblegum Crisis]]''. ''Bubblegum Crisis'' generally focuses on police in conflict with rogue androids with a human appearance, referred to as "[[Wikipedia:Boomer (anime term)|boomers]];" some of these are sleepers. It should be noted that [[Boomer (TOS)|Boomer]] from the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|original ''Battlestar Galactica'']] predates this usage.
**"Boomer" is also a nickname for a ballistic missile submarine. "[[Karl Agathon|Helo]]" is a similar nickname for a helicopter.
*During Season 1, Sharon Valerii parts her hair on the right side of her head, while Sharon Agathon parts her hair on the left side.

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Valerii, Sharon, (Galactica copy)]]
[[Category:Characters|Valerii, Sharon, (Galactica copy)]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Valerii, Sharon, (Galactica copy)]]
[[Category:Cylons|Valerii, Sharon, (Galactica copy)]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)|Valerii, Sharon, (Galactica copy)]]
[[Category:People from Aerelon|Valerii, Sharon, (Galactica copy)]]
[[Category:RDM|Valerii, Sharon, (Galactica copy)]]

Talk:Anastasia Dualla/Archive 1

2006-12-08T17:49:36Z

Rocky8311:

==XO of ''Pegasus''==
The relevant info from [[Podcast:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]] (Act 6, yet to be transcribed): 
Eick: Now we never talked about this, but is she the XO here? Do we think she's become the Tigh of the ''Pegasus''? 
Moore: I think she has. I think that's something that happened in the year off and I think that essentially so many people left ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' that they really are on skeleton crews and, y'know, somebody like Dualla that went to ''Pegasus'' to be with Lee, presumably, and we'll deal more with— we have episodes that deal more with the circumstances of that in season three, and how that happened and why, but the idea was she essentially went over there and more people kept leaving and leaving, and Lee made her the XO.

I think this is pretty clear, given the source, so we can probably get rid of "presumed" from the succession box. I do want to point out that she'd pretty much have to be a captain or higher to be in the XO position (Captain Aaron Kelly filled in as XO while Tigh was in command). For Dualla to go from PO2 (E-5) to Captain (O-4) in a year would demand both a very fast series of promotions, and a very high rate of attrition within the officer ranks. I don't think it's ''completely'' implausible, but it's hard to imagine that ''Pegasus'' didn't have a single officer left with any command competence. It's also probably not good military practice to have one's significant other in a directly subordinate position, but Dualla's strong willed enough (c.f. Home, Part I) that it's probably not a huge problem. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:56, 24 March 2006 (CST)
:Yeah. That is pretty clear that we can get rid of '''presumed'''. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:21, 24 March 2006 (CST)
:If normal military protocol were still being strictly followed, you'd be right about the promotions and the relationship issues. However, this is no longer a remotely normal situation. One of the interesting differences between Original Series protocol and RDM Series protocol is that the Original Series treated battlestars like fiefdoms, and it was perfectly normal for Adama and Cain to have their children serving with them; like a feudal lord, Adama was both a military and a civilian leader (he was on the Quorom at the same time as being Commander of ''Galactica''). At the outset, the RDM Series was modeling Colonial military protocol on US protocol -- strict separation of military and civilian concerns, and civilian control of the military, even ''in extremis''. That disciplined, constitutional and republican (small 'r' deliberate) approach now appears to be breaking down because it's increasingly impractical to enforce.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 11:35, 25 March 2006 (CST)

::Still, isn't it odd that Bill Adama had at least two officers serving under him (Tigh and Helo) while Lee had to promote an enlisted crewman to be his XO? I would think the most appropriate way to distribute personnel would have been for Bill to loan Helo to Lee. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:25, 25 March 2006 (CST)
:::Alot can happen in a year. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:32, 25 March 2006 (CST)
:::I haven't seen the eps yet (insert usual excuses here) but my impression was that Tigh went planetside. Really, of the people we '''know''' are officers, there aren't very many left (except on the technicality that all pilots, however green, are officers). Which is one of the things that's going to make S3 interesting -- all the old relationships are really totally jumbled up, now, and a lot of the people Adama had come to depend upon are no longer available to him. Setting aside the rest of the fleet for the moment, Adama has taken Galactica out to sea (as it were) without his senior CPO, who was also the best mechanic and manager of mechanics available (Tyrol), along with at least some of the flight deck crew; without trusted bridge officers like Tigh and Gaeta; and without trusted pilots like Thrace and his son (albeit the latter for different reasons). Unless there was some degree of conscription/coercion involved (not my impression), he's left with a purely voluntary corps who are still on board not because of their skills or specialties, but because of their scepticism in the viability of New Caprica and/or their dedication to the idea that New Caprica still needs a defence.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 12:43, 25 March 2006 (CST)
::::Tigh only went planetside during the scenes we saw, so he was with the fleet for a full year before then. I'm not trying to have an argument about the merits of the writing, which I don't think are in question; I'm just pointing out that it's a little bit weird. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:47, 25 March 2006 (CST
:::::OK, then I agree, it's a little odd. Since we're apparently going to get at least some of the gaps filled in, hopefully we'll get to see the thought process behind the staffing decisions.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 12:51, 25 March 2006 (CST)

I think that given the evidence yes, Dualla is the "highest ranking officer under Apollo on Pegasus" and, thus, "technically" the XO, but I mean, she's the XO of a "skeleton crew"...I mean on Star Trek TNG, ''Doctor Crusher'' commanded the ship during "Descent, Part II" when there was a skeleton crew on board. --->For practical matters, in terms of the XO of Pegasus link bar at the bottom, yeaaaaaahh it's fuzzy, but, mulling it over, technically yeah she is the XO even though it's not such a big deal. But yeah. I'm all for leaving her in the XO succession link bar. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:16, 25 March 2006 (CST)
:Not trying to be combative, but using Trek as an example or counter-example of anything regarding military protocol is a bad idea. Considering that the production staff could not itself agree whether Starfleet was or was not a military organisation in the first place (Roddenberry was adamant that it was not), Trek's grasp of how real militaries historically have worked was extremely slippery. It could get away with a lot simply by saying, "This is the shiny happy future. Things change!" ''Galactica'' can get away with '''some''' similar slipperyness because this isn't "our" culture, but enough effort has been made to make it cognate with our culture that there are limits to what they can do and not have "bullshit" called. That said, having Dee as XO, even if merely by default, doesn't exceed those limits, but only because of the deliberate one-year gap that leaves room for all sorts of explanations.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 08:07, 26 March 2006 (CST)
::Well yeah; sorry about that; Starfleet is more of an exploratory corps...but I digress. My point was just that it's not a big shocker that she's the XO when it's a skeleton crew...but yeah I guess that would make her the XO. Doesn't matter. Ok. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:03, 26 March 2006 (CST)
Someone transcribed a Cult TV interview with Kandyse onto livejournal [http://community.livejournal.com/open_com/15387.html here], confirming that she is the XO. NOthing much else drastically new. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 09:49, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

I think it's interesting that in the flashbacks of [[Unfinished Business]] she's already promoted to some Officer rank. That episode's flashbacks occurred before the mass exodus of military personnel from Galactica and Pegasus, showing that her promotion wasn't necessitated by an officer shortage and wasn't necessarily nepotism b/c she wasn't yet married to Lee. Perhaps she completed some sort of undergraduate degree and was then able to be commissioned..?

Also: does anyone know if she's taken the Adama name? Lee seems to assume that Starbuck would take the Anders name; at best we can probably assume that it's a common practice for the Colonials as it is for us (albeit more infrequently these days)?--[[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 18:49, 4 December 2006 (CST)

==Rank==
Merv, what was your source when you updated her rank to "Lieutenant"? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:26, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:She's wearing an officer's [[uniform]]. In retrospect, yes, I'm not sure if she's a Lieutenant (or Lieutenant Junior Grade) or the rarely used Ensign rank. We need to see a closeup of her rank insignia. However, Lieutenant seemed the most probable, and it is Gaeta's rank when he does a similar job. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:46, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:: Well, if you're not sure, we should just remove the Lieutenant reference until we get confirmation, don't you think? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:06, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Wait, I checked the Galactiastation transcript:
::::"Dualla: Commander. Apollo: Wait. Yeah, lieutenant. What is it? Dualla: I'm not sure. Picking up something on dradis."
:::So yeah, they called her lieutenant. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:10, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:::: Cool. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:12, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:::: Excellent. Thanks for the source. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:59, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:Her rank insignia both in the wikipage photo and during Exodus II is "Lieutenant Junior Grade." As for her being addressed as "Lieutenant," that term is used both in ''Galactica'' and in the US regardless of whether addressing a full or junior-grade lieutenant--ref. Boomer (?) in Mini & season 1. Similarly, no one called Cain "Rear Admiral" except Adama when specifically discussing her promotion from Commander. I've changed Dee's infobox - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 08:48, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

==First Paragraph==

Shouldn't someone rewrite the first paragraph of this article, since she no longer serves on Galactica, and is no longer the comms officer? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 09:33, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

== Dualla to die by episode 3? ==

As with my speculation on [[Laura Roslin]] buying the farm in season 3 (per a David Eick TV Guide interview that a "very central character" will die by that time), it's logical that Dualla may be that character. For one, her existance conflicts with the Apollo/Starbuck arc. Two, her position on ''Pegasus'' (which can't ''possibly'' stick around through all of season 3) invites her to a greater chance of death. It is less likely that [[Lee Adama]] will die if Dualla is feeling self-sacrificial for her love. Battlestars don't drive themselves, you know. Just a thought. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:52, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:I thought this was a spoiler. Speculation (especially reasoned speculation), is an entirely different matter. As for her buying it... I think they'd need to build up some goodwill for her first. I think if they killed her right now (pre-season 3) there'd be more celebrations than lamentation. Casting her in a more postive light, then killing her, would be more effective. (If it were to be done at all.) They love the actress (at least the Podcast commentary seems that way), but that hasn't stopped them from offing people (Crashdown, Billy) when they had other opportunities. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:59, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
::To perfectly honest, I am amazed at the restraint that has been shown so far about spoilers. I am a spoiler 'ho from way back ([http://www.visi.com/~wildfoto/spoilers.html B5 Spoiler Junkies] Also, check out the synopses on the site where you are there) and the amount of information not being displayed here is tremendous. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:16, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:::It's fanservice for us. Eick loves to tease, but he's not giving up anymore data than what's already been said. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:18, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

== Cleanup ==

Todo:
*Headings
*Season 3 Info
--[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 10:56, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:I've updated the headings, so the only thing needed to be done is Season 3 info. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 05:13, 22 November 2006 (CST)

Talk:Anastasia Dualla/Archive 1

2006-12-08T17:49:15Z

Rocky8311:

Sooooo...anybody else completely stumped as to how this whole wiki thing is going to go now? [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 22:20, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Meaning what exactly?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 22:22, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Well, just how everything's been turned on its head and it's hard to know what the characters' roles are now. And we're not going to know exactly what happened in the finale until we're able to determine it from the next season's episodes. Mostly, I was just shellshocked when I wrote that and I CANNOT believe they're hanging us out to dry until October. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 01:11, 11 March 2006 (CST)

==XO of ''Pegasus''==
The relevant info from [[Podcast:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]] (Act 6, yet to be transcribed): 
Eick: Now we never talked about this, but is she the XO here? Do we think she's become the Tigh of the ''Pegasus''? 
Moore: I think she has. I think that's something that happened in the year off and I think that essentially so many people left ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' that they really are on skeleton crews and, y'know, somebody like Dualla that went to ''Pegasus'' to be with Lee, presumably, and we'll deal more with— we have episodes that deal more with the circumstances of that in season three, and how that happened and why, but the idea was she essentially went over there and more people kept leaving and leaving, and Lee made her the XO.

I think this is pretty clear, given the source, so we can probably get rid of "presumed" from the succession box. I do want to point out that she'd pretty much have to be a captain or higher to be in the XO position (Captain Aaron Kelly filled in as XO while Tigh was in command). For Dualla to go from PO2 (E-5) to Captain (O-4) in a year would demand both a very fast series of promotions, and a very high rate of attrition within the officer ranks. I don't think it's ''completely'' implausible, but it's hard to imagine that ''Pegasus'' didn't have a single officer left with any command competence. It's also probably not good military practice to have one's significant other in a directly subordinate position, but Dualla's strong willed enough (c.f. Home, Part I) that it's probably not a huge problem. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:56, 24 March 2006 (CST)
:Yeah. That is pretty clear that we can get rid of '''presumed'''. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:21, 24 March 2006 (CST)
:If normal military protocol were still being strictly followed, you'd be right about the promotions and the relationship issues. However, this is no longer a remotely normal situation. One of the interesting differences between Original Series protocol and RDM Series protocol is that the Original Series treated battlestars like fiefdoms, and it was perfectly normal for Adama and Cain to have their children serving with them; like a feudal lord, Adama was both a military and a civilian leader (he was on the Quorom at the same time as being Commander of ''Galactica''). At the outset, the RDM Series was modeling Colonial military protocol on US protocol -- strict separation of military and civilian concerns, and civilian control of the military, even ''in extremis''. That disciplined, constitutional and republican (small 'r' deliberate) approach now appears to be breaking down because it's increasingly impractical to enforce.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 11:35, 25 March 2006 (CST)

::Still, isn't it odd that Bill Adama had at least two officers serving under him (Tigh and Helo) while Lee had to promote an enlisted crewman to be his XO? I would think the most appropriate way to distribute personnel would have been for Bill to loan Helo to Lee. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:25, 25 March 2006 (CST)
:::Alot can happen in a year. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:32, 25 March 2006 (CST)
:::I haven't seen the eps yet (insert usual excuses here) but my impression was that Tigh went planetside. Really, of the people we '''know''' are officers, there aren't very many left (except on the technicality that all pilots, however green, are officers). Which is one of the things that's going to make S3 interesting -- all the old relationships are really totally jumbled up, now, and a lot of the people Adama had come to depend upon are no longer available to him. Setting aside the rest of the fleet for the moment, Adama has taken Galactica out to sea (as it were) without his senior CPO, who was also the best mechanic and manager of mechanics available (Tyrol), along with at least some of the flight deck crew; without trusted bridge officers like Tigh and Gaeta; and without trusted pilots like Thrace and his son (albeit the latter for different reasons). Unless there was some degree of conscription/coercion involved (not my impression), he's left with a purely voluntary corps who are still on board not because of their skills or specialties, but because of their scepticism in the viability of New Caprica and/or their dedication to the idea that New Caprica still needs a defence.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 12:43, 25 March 2006 (CST)
::::Tigh only went planetside during the scenes we saw, so he was with the fleet for a full year before then. I'm not trying to have an argument about the merits of the writing, which I don't think are in question; I'm just pointing out that it's a little bit weird. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:47, 25 March 2006 (CST
:::::OK, then I agree, it's a little odd. Since we're apparently going to get at least some of the gaps filled in, hopefully we'll get to see the thought process behind the staffing decisions.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 12:51, 25 March 2006 (CST)

I think that given the evidence yes, Dualla is the "highest ranking officer under Apollo on Pegasus" and, thus, "technically" the XO, but I mean, she's the XO of a "skeleton crew"...I mean on Star Trek TNG, ''Doctor Crusher'' commanded the ship during "Descent, Part II" when there was a skeleton crew on board. --->For practical matters, in terms of the XO of Pegasus link bar at the bottom, yeaaaaaahh it's fuzzy, but, mulling it over, technically yeah she is the XO even though it's not such a big deal. But yeah. I'm all for leaving her in the XO succession link bar. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:16, 25 March 2006 (CST)
:Not trying to be combative, but using Trek as an example or counter-example of anything regarding military protocol is a bad idea. Considering that the production staff could not itself agree whether Starfleet was or was not a military organisation in the first place (Roddenberry was adamant that it was not), Trek's grasp of how real militaries historically have worked was extremely slippery. It could get away with a lot simply by saying, "This is the shiny happy future. Things change!" ''Galactica'' can get away with '''some''' similar slipperyness because this isn't "our" culture, but enough effort has been made to make it cognate with our culture that there are limits to what they can do and not have "bullshit" called. That said, having Dee as XO, even if merely by default, doesn't exceed those limits, but only because of the deliberate one-year gap that leaves room for all sorts of explanations.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 08:07, 26 March 2006 (CST)
::Well yeah; sorry about that; Starfleet is more of an exploratory corps...but I digress. My point was just that it's not a big shocker that she's the XO when it's a skeleton crew...but yeah I guess that would make her the XO. Doesn't matter. Ok. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:03, 26 March 2006 (CST)
Someone transcribed a Cult TV interview with Kandyse onto livejournal [http://community.livejournal.com/open_com/15387.html here], confirming that she is the XO. NOthing much else drastically new. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 09:49, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

I think it's interesting that in the flashbacks of [[Unfinished Business]] she's already promoted to some Officer rank. That episode's flashbacks occurred before the mass exodus of military personnel from Galactica and Pegasus, showing that her promotion wasn't necessitated by an officer shortage and wasn't necessarily nepotism b/c she wasn't yet married to Lee. Perhaps she completed some sort of undergraduate degree and was then able to be commissioned..?

Also: does anyone know if she's taken the Adama name? Lee seems to assume that Starbuck would take the Anders name; at best we can probably assume that it's a common practice for the Colonials as it is for us (albeit more infrequently these days)?--[[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 18:49, 4 December 2006 (CST)

==Rank==
Merv, what was your source when you updated her rank to "Lieutenant"? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:26, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:She's wearing an officer's [[uniform]]. In retrospect, yes, I'm not sure if she's a Lieutenant (or Lieutenant Junior Grade) or the rarely used Ensign rank. We need to see a closeup of her rank insignia. However, Lieutenant seemed the most probable, and it is Gaeta's rank when he does a similar job. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:46, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:: Well, if you're not sure, we should just remove the Lieutenant reference until we get confirmation, don't you think? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:06, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Wait, I checked the Galactiastation transcript:
::::"Dualla: Commander. Apollo: Wait. Yeah, lieutenant. What is it? Dualla: I'm not sure. Picking up something on dradis."
:::So yeah, they called her lieutenant. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:10, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:::: Cool. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:12, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:::: Excellent. Thanks for the source. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:59, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:Her rank insignia both in the wikipage photo and during Exodus II is "Lieutenant Junior Grade." As for her being addressed as "Lieutenant," that term is used both in ''Galactica'' and in the US regardless of whether addressing a full or junior-grade lieutenant--ref. Boomer (?) in Mini & season 1. Similarly, no one called Cain "Rear Admiral" except Adama when specifically discussing her promotion from Commander. I've changed Dee's infobox - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 08:48, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

==First Paragraph==

Shouldn't someone rewrite the first paragraph of this article, since she no longer serves on Galactica, and is no longer the comms officer? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 09:33, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

== Dualla to die by episode 3? ==

As with my speculation on [[Laura Roslin]] buying the farm in season 3 (per a David Eick TV Guide interview that a "very central character" will die by that time), it's logical that Dualla may be that character. For one, her existance conflicts with the Apollo/Starbuck arc. Two, her position on ''Pegasus'' (which can't ''possibly'' stick around through all of season 3) invites her to a greater chance of death. It is less likely that [[Lee Adama]] will die if Dualla is feeling self-sacrificial for her love. Battlestars don't drive themselves, you know. Just a thought. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:52, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:I thought this was a spoiler. Speculation (especially reasoned speculation), is an entirely different matter. As for her buying it... I think they'd need to build up some goodwill for her first. I think if they killed her right now (pre-season 3) there'd be more celebrations than lamentation. Casting her in a more postive light, then killing her, would be more effective. (If it were to be done at all.) They love the actress (at least the Podcast commentary seems that way), but that hasn't stopped them from offing people (Crashdown, Billy) when they had other opportunities. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:59, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
::To perfectly honest, I am amazed at the restraint that has been shown so far about spoilers. I am a spoiler 'ho from way back ([http://www.visi.com/~wildfoto/spoilers.html B5 Spoiler Junkies] Also, check out the synopses on the site where you are there) and the amount of information not being displayed here is tremendous. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:16, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:::It's fanservice for us. Eick loves to tease, but he's not giving up anymore data than what's already been said. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:18, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

== Cleanup ==

Todo:
*Headings
*Season 3 Info
--[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 10:56, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:I've updated the headings, so the only thing needed to be done is Season 3 info. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 05:13, 22 November 2006 (CST)

Athena (battlestar)

2006-12-05T02:49:59Z

Rocky8311: we don't know anything about its armaments, or if raptors existed yet

:''For other uses of this name in ''Battlestar Galactica'', see [[Athena]].''

{{Ship Data
| title= Athena
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| role= Carrier / battleship hybrid
| status= Presumed scrapped or destroyed
}}

The battlestar '''''Athena''''' served during the [[Cylon War]].

[[Saul Tigh]] served admirably aboard this ship as a Viper pilot, earning a number of medals. <ref>"Cylon Intelligence Report: Personnel File: Saul Tigh." [[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine]]. Feb./Mar. 2006: 62.
*"Tigh joined the Colonial Officer Candidate School and was reassigned as a [[Viper Mark II|Viper]] pilot, something he excelled in, earning a string of medals in his post aboard the battlestar ''Athena''."</ref>

==Notes==

*Given her participation in the Cylon War, ''Athena'' may be one of the twelve [[Galactica type battlestar|original battlestars]] like her sister, ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. However, ''Athena's'' actual class cannot be confirmed with this little information.

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Battlestars]]
[[Category:Battlestars (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only]]
[[Category:Mentioned-Only (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Anastasia Dualla/Archive 1

2006-12-05T00:49:39Z

Rocky8311: /* Rank */ Dualla in flashback

Sooooo...anybody else completely stumped as to how this whole wiki thing is going to go now? [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 22:20, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Meaning what exactly?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 22:22, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Well, just how everything's been turned on its head and it's hard to know what the characters' roles are now. And we're not going to know exactly what happened in the finale until we're able to determine it from the next season's episodes. Mostly, I was just shellshocked when I wrote that and I CANNOT believe they're hanging us out to dry until October. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 01:11, 11 March 2006 (CST)

==XO of ''Pegasus''==
The relevant info from [[Podcast:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]] (Act 6, yet to be transcribed): 
Eick: Now we never talked about this, but is she the XO here? Do we think she's become the Tigh of the ''Pegasus''? 
Moore: I think she has. I think that's something that happened in the year off and I think that essentially so many people left ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' that they really are on skeleton crews and, y'know, somebody like Dualla that went to ''Pegasus'' to be with Lee, presumably, and we'll deal more with— we have episodes that deal more with the circumstances of that in season three, and how that happened and why, but the idea was she essentially went over there and more people kept leaving and leaving, and Lee made her the XO.

I think this is pretty clear, given the source, so we can probably get rid of "presumed" from the succession box. I do want to point out that she'd pretty much have to be a captain or higher to be in the XO position (Captain Aaron Kelly filled in as XO while Tigh was in command). For Dualla to go from PO2 (E-5) to Captain (O-4) in a year would demand both a very fast series of promotions, and a very high rate of attrition within the officer ranks. I don't think it's ''completely'' implausible, but it's hard to imagine that ''Pegasus'' didn't have a single officer left with any command competence. It's also probably not good military practice to have one's significant other in a directly subordinate position, but Dualla's strong willed enough (c.f. Home, Part I) that it's probably not a huge problem. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:56, 24 March 2006 (CST)
:Yeah. That is pretty clear that we can get rid of '''presumed'''. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:21, 24 March 2006 (CST)
:If normal military protocol were still being strictly followed, you'd be right about the promotions and the relationship issues. However, this is no longer a remotely normal situation. One of the interesting differences between Original Series protocol and RDM Series protocol is that the Original Series treated battlestars like fiefdoms, and it was perfectly normal for Adama and Cain to have their children serving with them; like a feudal lord, Adama was both a military and a civilian leader (he was on the Quorom at the same time as being Commander of ''Galactica''). At the outset, the RDM Series was modeling Colonial military protocol on US protocol -- strict separation of military and civilian concerns, and civilian control of the military, even ''in extremis''. That disciplined, constitutional and republican (small 'r' deliberate) approach now appears to be breaking down because it's increasingly impractical to enforce.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 11:35, 25 March 2006 (CST)

::Still, isn't it odd that Bill Adama had at least two officers serving under him (Tigh and Helo) while Lee had to promote an enlisted crewman to be his XO? I would think the most appropriate way to distribute personnel would have been for Bill to loan Helo to Lee. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:25, 25 March 2006 (CST)
:::Alot can happen in a year. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:32, 25 March 2006 (CST)
:::I haven't seen the eps yet (insert usual excuses here) but my impression was that Tigh went planetside. Really, of the people we '''know''' are officers, there aren't very many left (except on the technicality that all pilots, however green, are officers). Which is one of the things that's going to make S3 interesting -- all the old relationships are really totally jumbled up, now, and a lot of the people Adama had come to depend upon are no longer available to him. Setting aside the rest of the fleet for the moment, Adama has taken Galactica out to sea (as it were) without his senior CPO, who was also the best mechanic and manager of mechanics available (Tyrol), along with at least some of the flight deck crew; without trusted bridge officers like Tigh and Gaeta; and without trusted pilots like Thrace and his son (albeit the latter for different reasons). Unless there was some degree of conscription/coercion involved (not my impression), he's left with a purely voluntary corps who are still on board not because of their skills or specialties, but because of their scepticism in the viability of New Caprica and/or their dedication to the idea that New Caprica still needs a defence.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 12:43, 25 March 2006 (CST)
::::Tigh only went planetside during the scenes we saw, so he was with the fleet for a full year before then. I'm not trying to have an argument about the merits of the writing, which I don't think are in question; I'm just pointing out that it's a little bit weird. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:47, 25 March 2006 (CST
:::::OK, then I agree, it's a little odd. Since we're apparently going to get at least some of the gaps filled in, hopefully we'll get to see the thought process behind the staffing decisions.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 12:51, 25 March 2006 (CST)

I think that given the evidence yes, Dualla is the "highest ranking officer under Apollo on Pegasus" and, thus, "technically" the XO, but I mean, she's the XO of a "skeleton crew"...I mean on Star Trek TNG, ''Doctor Crusher'' commanded the ship during "Descent, Part II" when there was a skeleton crew on board. --->For practical matters, in terms of the XO of Pegasus link bar at the bottom, yeaaaaaahh it's fuzzy, but, mulling it over, technically yeah she is the XO even though it's not such a big deal. But yeah. I'm all for leaving her in the XO succession link bar. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:16, 25 March 2006 (CST)
:Not trying to be combative, but using Trek as an example or counter-example of anything regarding military protocol is a bad idea. Considering that the production staff could not itself agree whether Starfleet was or was not a military organisation in the first place (Roddenberry was adamant that it was not), Trek's grasp of how real militaries historically have worked was extremely slippery. It could get away with a lot simply by saying, "This is the shiny happy future. Things change!" ''Galactica'' can get away with '''some''' similar slipperyness because this isn't "our" culture, but enough effort has been made to make it cognate with our culture that there are limits to what they can do and not have "bullshit" called. That said, having Dee as XO, even if merely by default, doesn't exceed those limits, but only because of the deliberate one-year gap that leaves room for all sorts of explanations.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 08:07, 26 March 2006 (CST)
::Well yeah; sorry about that; Starfleet is more of an exploratory corps...but I digress. My point was just that it's not a big shocker that she's the XO when it's a skeleton crew...but yeah I guess that would make her the XO. Doesn't matter. Ok. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:03, 26 March 2006 (CST)
Someone transcribed a Cult TV interview with Kandyse onto livejournal [http://community.livejournal.com/open_com/15387.html here], confirming that she is the XO. NOthing much else drastically new. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 09:49, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

==Rank==
Merv, what was your source when you updated her rank to "Lieutenant"? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:26, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:She's wearing an officer's [[uniform]]. In retrospect, yes, I'm not sure if she's a Lieutenant (or Lieutenant Junior Grade) or the rarely used Ensign rank. We need to see a closeup of her rank insignia. However, Lieutenant seemed the most probable, and it is Gaeta's rank when he does a similar job. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 14:46, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:: Well, if you're not sure, we should just remove the Lieutenant reference until we get confirmation, don't you think? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:06, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Wait, I checked the Galactiastation transcript:
::::"Dualla: Commander. Apollo: Wait. Yeah, lieutenant. What is it? Dualla: I'm not sure. Picking up something on dradis."
:::So yeah, they called her lieutenant. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:10, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:::: Cool. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 15:12, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:::: Excellent. Thanks for the source. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:59, 9 April 2006 (CDT)
:Her rank insignia both in the wikipage photo and during Exodus II is "Lieutenant Junior Grade." As for her being addressed as "Lieutenant," that term is used both in ''Galactica'' and in the US regardless of whether addressing a full or junior-grade lieutenant--ref. Boomer (?) in Mini & season 1. Similarly, no one called Cain "Rear Admiral" except Adama when specifically discussing her promotion from Commander. I've changed Dee's infobox - [[User:Keithustus|Keithustus]] 08:48, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

I think it's interesting that in the flashbacks of [[Unfinished Business]] she's already promoted to some Officer rank. That episode's flashbacks occurred before the mass exodus of military personnel from Galactica and Pegasus, showing that her promotion wasn't necessitated by an officer shortage and wasn't necessarily nepotism b/c she wasn't yet married to Lee. Perhaps she completed some sort of undergraduate degree and was then able to be commissioned..?

Also: does anyone know if she's taken the Adama name? Lee seems to assume that Starbuck would take the Anders name; at best we can probably assume that it's a common practice for the Colonials as it is for us (albeit more infrequently these days)?--[[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 18:49, 4 December 2006 (CST)

==First Paragraph==

Shouldn't someone rewrite the first paragraph of this article, since she no longer serves on Galactica, and is no longer the comms officer? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 09:33, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

== Dualla to die by episode 3? ==

As with my speculation on [[Laura Roslin]] buying the farm in season 3 (per a David Eick TV Guide interview that a "very central character" will die by that time), it's logical that Dualla may be that character. For one, her existance conflicts with the Apollo/Starbuck arc. Two, her position on ''Pegasus'' (which can't ''possibly'' stick around through all of season 3) invites her to a greater chance of death. It is less likely that [[Lee Adama]] will die if Dualla is feeling self-sacrificial for her love. Battlestars don't drive themselves, you know. Just a thought. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:52, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:I thought this was a spoiler. Speculation (especially reasoned speculation), is an entirely different matter. As for her buying it... I think they'd need to build up some goodwill for her first. I think if they killed her right now (pre-season 3) there'd be more celebrations than lamentation. Casting her in a more postive light, then killing her, would be more effective. (If it were to be done at all.) They love the actress (at least the Podcast commentary seems that way), but that hasn't stopped them from offing people (Crashdown, Billy) when they had other opportunities. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:59, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
::To perfectly honest, I am amazed at the restraint that has been shown so far about spoilers. I am a spoiler 'ho from way back ([http://www.visi.com/~wildfoto/spoilers.html B5 Spoiler Junkies] Also, check out the synopses on the site where you are there) and the amount of information not being displayed here is tremendous. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:16, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:::It's fanservice for us. Eick loves to tease, but he's not giving up anymore data than what's already been said. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:18, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

== Cleanup ==

Todo:
*Headings
*Season 3 Info
--[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 10:56, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:I've updated the headings, so the only thing needed to be done is Season 3 info. -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 05:13, 22 November 2006 (CST)

Talk:Number One/Archive 1

2006-03-13T18:42:30Z

Rocky8311:

== Categories ==
This page doesn't have any categories. I don't wish to read the spoiler stuff, but if somebody could kindly sort it I'd appreciate it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:31, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:Well, having stumbled into some spoiler-ish discussion on a talk page, I believe that categories on this page might end up being a spoiler themselves. I guess we can put categories on this once the cat is out of the proverbial bag. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)
:: We'll find out tonight, I guess. I'm looking forward to it. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:07, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Article name ==

I believe it should be Cavil, not Brother Cavil, same as it's Cally, not Specialist Cally.
:Yep. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:20, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Cylon? ==

Just from speculation based on the 'not at any of the cylon meetings' line, which is so similar to Six's line.

Also if he is a cylon he could be 'Number 1,' as that so far the lower the number the higher the age of the cylon. Perhaps that makes him the 'leader', that is, if cylon's have leaders in their 'society based on unity'.

Just a guess--[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 21:12, 7 March 2006 (CST)

: I doubt he is Number 1. Plus, as people keep on forgetting, Cylons only ''appear'' to age -- they don't actually grow up from infancy like humans do. They're made as old as they look (or as young as they look). Period. I wouldn't be surprised if he was Number 12, thus sinking the whole "model number sorted by age" thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:47, 12 March 2006 (CST)

::Do we know if both discovered models were named Cavil? Because that makes me suspicious that their discovery together wouldn't be accidental. And especially with how in agreement they were even after being separately for months (presumably). I don't trust their words, especially now that the Colony was subjugated. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 12:42, 13 March 2006 (CST)

Anastasia Dualla

2006-03-13T18:10:47Z

Rocky8311: /* Biography */

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Anastasia Dualla.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]]
|birthname= Anastasia Dualla (nickname "Dee")
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=Dating [[Lee Adama]] (formerly dating [[Billy Keikeya]] † )
|role= [[Tactical Officer]], [[CIC]], [[Battlestar (RDM)|Battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus]]''
|rank= Lieutenant
|actor= [[Kandyse McClure]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

As a member of ''[[Galactica|Galactica's]]'' command staff, Petty Officer 2nd Class '''Anastasia Dualla''' {{IPA|du.ˈɑ.lə}} manages the main communications board in [[CIC]], and works closely with [[William Adama|Adama]], [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]], and [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] in serving as ''Galactica's'' eyes and ears to her fighters and [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]]. Her responsibilities include:

* Monitoring fleet-wide [[Wireless|communications]], including all of ''Galactica's'' incoming and out-going communications
* Ensuring shipboard communications are properly logged ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]])
* Relaying communications to all of ''Galactica's'' [[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]] and [[Raptor|Raptors]] during off-ship missions
* Managing other minor CIC operations in Lt. Gaeta's absence.

== Biography ==

Dualla's father thought that her enlistment in the [[Colonial Fleet]] was crazy, and he viewed the military as a joke. She signed up anyway because she wanted to believe in something. This rift with her father would continue throughout her service and the last time they spoke they got in a heated argument; two weeks later the Cylons attacked, and Dualla never got a chance to reconcile with him ([[Final Cut]]).

At the time of the [[Cylon attack]] she monitors fleet-wide communications. Dualla is one of the first to notice the unusually-high levels of shipboard malfunctions and failures aboard other battlestars ([[Mini-Series]]).

After the Cylon attack, she co-ordinates Fleet activities with Tactical Officer [[Felix Gaeta]] (e.g. [[FTL|Jumps]]). In this responsibility, she discovers that the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' fails to Jump with the fleet after yet another Jump to escape a 5-day long, relentless attack by the Cylons after their escape from [[Ragnar Anchorage]] ([[33]]).

Due to his attraction to Dualla, presidential aide [[Billy Keikeya]] "volunteers" her to join an off-ship mission to the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' ([[Bastille Day]]). Led by Captain [[Lee Adama]], the mission is to attempt enlistment of prisoners aboard the ''Queen'' in resupplying ''Galactica'' with water following an act of sabotage ([[Water]]). During the mission, the team is taken hostage by prisoners during a jail break lead by fellow Sagittaron and political agitator [[Tom Zarek]].

Freed without personal harm during this siuation, Dualla returns Billy Keikeya's affections, and they date during off-duty periods ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

Dualla receives a minor concussion when Cylons board the ship ([[Valley of Darkness]]). Dualla aids in [[Laura Roslin]]'s escape from ''Galactica'' after the President's arrest by covering up the tracks of their secret communications coordinating their movements in the Fleet, and getting Colonel Tigh to sign permission to close off a causeway which they use as an escape route. At this time, Dualla seems to take a greater personal interest in [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] ([[Resistance]]).

Dualla is assigned to give [[D'anna Biers]] a tour around the battlestar as part of Bier's documentary of the ship ([[Final Cut]]). Lee Adama seems to return Dualla's personal attraction during a sparring exercise with the petty officer ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

Dualla's [[avionics]] training helps in building a stable communications package for the experimental [[Blackbird]] fighter ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

Keikeya, apparently attempting to solidify his relationship with the petty officer, proposes to Dualla, but she refuses. Keikeya later sees Dualla with Lee Adama on ''[[Cloud 9]]'' and accuses her of leading him on. Shortly after Keikeya's accusation, four terrorists commander the lounge and its occupants in exchange for the surrender of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]. When a ruse by Admiral [[William Adama]] is discovered, the [[Sesha Abinell|leader]] of the the terrorists orders Dualla's death. Keikeya intervenes and manages to shoot the terrorist, but the terrorist fatally wounds Keikeya before dying. Lee Adama is also left severely wounded from a friendly-fire incident during an abortive assault led by [[Kara Thrace]]. Dualla promises to watch over Lee Adama until he recovers in [[sickbay]]. When he finally regained conciousness, Dualla was so happy that neither of them noticed Starbuck leaving the sickbay with a heartbroken expression ([[Sacrifice]]).

A few months later, still in a relationship with Apollo, Dualla was involved with the counting of ballots for the Presidential election. Dualla conspired with [[Tory]] and [[Saul Tigh]] to rig the election in Roslins's favor, indicating that she comprehended the disaster that would follow if Baltar was elected. Though the plot initally went off without a hitch, the efforts of Lt. Gaeta led to Adama's discovery of the duplicity, and the plot was covered up, with Baltar being elected to the Presidency.

A year later, Dualla served as an officer in the [[Pegasus]] [[CIC]], acting as both Communications and (presumably) Executive Officer, one of few remaining crew serving on a Battlestar in orbit around [[New Caprica]] (Dualla and Apollo may have still had a relationship, given the look she gives him when Starbuck calls. She also fiddles with her ring finger, which may imply that she is now married). Dualla's keen eyes picked up DRADIS contacts, which gave the remnants of the Fleet advance warning to the arrival of full Cylon fleet. Dualla and the rest of the fleet jumped away, hoping to return to liberate New Caprica another day. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

== Notes ==

*Dualla's counterpart in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] is [[Rigel]].
*Dualla was known throughout all of the first season and part of of the second season only as "Dualla" or "Dee". Her first name was finally revealed in the episode, "[[Final Cut]]". "Anastasia" means "resurrection" in Greek.

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Dualla, Anastasia]]
[[Category:Characters|Dualla, Anastasia]]
[[Category:RDM|Dualla, Anastasia]]
[[Category:People from Sagittaron|Dualla, Anastasia]]

Podcast talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II

2006-03-12T21:17:54Z

Rocky8311:

Hey, were they kidding about Edward James Olmos not returning for Season Three? They joked about doing him in CGI instead afterwards so I assume they were kidding [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 15:17, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Space Park

2006-03-12T20:46:38Z

Rocky8311: check me on this

[[Image:Space Park.JPG|thumb|The Space Park liner. credit: Zoic Studios, © Universal]]
Type: [[Intersun]] Ring Liner 
Length: 4000 feet 
Ring diameter: 1250 feet 

The '''Space Park''' is an [[FTL]]-capable civilian passenger liner in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] which originally was designed to simulate gravity through centrifugal forces for its passengers at a time where artificial gravity was too expensive to utilize on a commercial ship of that size.

These [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Libra|Libran-registry]] passenger ships were so versatile that versions were refitted as exploration and [[Colonial Fleet|military ships]], with interiors filled with laboratories, computer systems, power generators, and the like.

Some of the Space Park liners were later upgraded to include affordable artificial gravity in lieu of centrifugal spinning, but a few modernized liners maintained the rotation for aesthetic reasons.

At least one Space Park liner is known to have escaped the Cylon blockade of [[New Caprica]] with the remnants of the Colonial Fleet.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Galactica (TRS)

2006-03-12T20:41:21Z

Rocky8311: slight updates

:''For the Original Series ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (TOS)]]. For the Video Game ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (Video Game)]].'' 

[[Image:Bsg-bsg-1.jpg|thumb|300px|The historic battlestar ''Galactica'']]

'''''Galactica'' (BS 75)''' is the most famous warship in the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Built in time to participate in the [[Cylon War]], she remained the only military vessel without integrated [[Computers|computer networks]]. Without networked computers, ''Galactica'' never upgraded to the new [[Command Navigation Program|integrated defense system software]] developed by Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] and his [[Number Six|team]]. Because of this and other fortune, she became one of only [[Pegasus (RDM)|two]] battlestars to survive the renewed Cylon attack on the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], some 40 years after the end of the first war.

== Fleet Details ==

'''Designation''': warship, battlestar type, [[Galactica type battlestar|original battlestar class]] (class name unknown).

'''Deployment''': Formerly an element of the [[75th Battlestar Group]] (BSG 75)

'''Current Status''': One of [[Pegasus (RDM) |two]] remaining Colonial military units. ''Galactica'' is commanded by [[William Adama]].

== History ==

''Galactica'' was one of the twelve first battlestars to be laid down by the Colonials. Initially they built a battlestar to represent each colony, and Galactica was the battlestar that represented [[Caprica]]. As such, she is some 50 years old (Mini Series). Following the outbreak of Cylon hostilities several more battlestars were built. ''Galactica's'' first commander was [[Peter Dash]] ([[Mini-Series]]).

The original battlestars were all designed with non-integrated computer systems to avoid the Cylons' demonstrated ability to override or subvert networked command and control systems early in the war ([[Mini-Series]]). Rather than technological sophistication, the battlestar depended on its sheer bulk and defensive / offensive capabilities to ward off any threats to itself or the Colonies.

Following the [[Armistice Station|armistice]] with the Cylons, and their withdrawal from Colonial space, ''Galactica'' and her sister ships continued to serve the Twelve Colonies in a wide variety of roles. While her surviving sister ships were scrapped or upgraded to match the systems capabilities of more modern Colonial vessels, ''Galactica'' continued in service without her systems being fully networked or integrated, making her unique among Colonial military vessels ([[Miniseries]]).

With her active career drawing to a close, a decision was taken to retire ''Galactica'' and decommission her from service. [[Colonial Fleet]] chose not to scrap her, but to turn her into a combination of living museum to the original Cylon War and an educational center, with her conversion being overseen by her final commander, [[William Adama]] ([[Miniseries]]).

At the time of her formal decommissioning ceremony, ''Galactica'' was stripped of all but one of her operational [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] Mark VII squadrons, her munitions destroyed, and her starboard landing pod converted into a pressurized [[Galactica Museum|museum]] housing (among other things) a full squadron of 20 Mk. II Vipers (Miniseries, also in Deleted Scenes).

With the unexpected resumption of hostilities on the part of the Cylons, ''Galactica'' quickly proves her worthiness as a warship is far from over as she withstands a direct hit from a tactical nuclear missile, and then single-handedly engages two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] after re-arming herself at [[Ragnar Anchorage]], providing an umbrella of fire cover under which [[The Fleet (RDM)|an assortment of 75 civilian ships]] containing the last survivors of the Twelve Colonies escape the Cylons.

Since the exodus of the Colonials from their overrun homeworlds, ''Galactica'' becomes both protector and provider for the Fleet. She provides direct fire-cover for the Fleet during Cylon attacks no fewer than 240 times ("[[33]]", "[[Act of Contrition]]"). She provides much of the Fleet with recycled water ([[Water]]) and she is the primary source of medical care, with groups of civilians routinely brought aboard for check-ups and the like ([[Litmus]]). ''Galactica'' also undertakes internal policing duties within the Fleet ("[[Water]]", "[[Bastille Day]]").

''Galactica'' successfully goes on the offensive against the Cylons, capturing a [[tylium]] fuel mining and processing plant in the process ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

''Galactica'' is joined by [[Mercury class battlestar|the advanced battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', commanded by Admiral [[Helena Cain]], at the mid-point of the second season of the Re-imagined Series. Battlestars ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'' destroy two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] as well as a critical Cylon support ship, the [[Resurrection Ship]] ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]). After the death of Admiral Cain, President [[Laura Roslin]] promotes William Adama to Admiral, restoring him to overall Fleet command, but now with two battlestars at his disposal ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

== Equipment ==
''Galactica'' shares the same overall technical specifications as other original Colonial battlestars of [[Original Battlestar (RDM)|her class]], with the following key differences:

===Available Flight Pods===
Only ''Galactica's'' port [[flight pod]] is in service. The starboard flight pod was enclosed and pressurized as the main museum display facility. It was violently depressurized after a [[Heavy Raider]] crashed into it ([[Scattered]]). No episode since "[[Valley of Darkness]]" addresses the status of the flight pod since its depressurization.

===Turrets===
[[Image:BSG-KEW-Turret.jpg|thumb|An example of one of ''Galactica's'' large flak weapons.]]
''Galactica's'' defenses include an array of twenty-four large turret mounted twin-cannons, and a multitude of smaller turret mounted twin-guns located between the ''Galactica's'' "[[Frame|ribs]]". Together, these provide the ''Galactica'' with a flak field that acts as a defense perimeter against incoming hostiles ([[Miniseries]], "[[Scattered]]").

===Nuclear Warheads===
''Galactica'' had five nuclear warheads as of "[[Bastille Day]]". Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] cannibalizes one to use in his [[Cylon Detector]], and Commander Adama uses another to destroy a Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], leaving the ship with three.

===Vipers===
Prior to the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', ''Galactica'' has at most 34 Vipers, of which at least six are Mk. VIIs.{{ref|vipers}} ''Galactica'' receives additional supplies from ''Pegasus'' since her arrival that may aid in repair or refurbishment of her fighter complement ([[Pegasus (episode)|"Pegasus"]]).

===Raptors===
The number of [[Raptor]]s available to ''Galactica'' has been very inconsistent in the series. We currently must assume she has at least five, and left Ragnar Anchorage with at least eight.{{ref|raptors}}

===Other Craft===
*''Galactica'' currently posesses two [[Heavy Raider]]s. One crash-lands into the starboard flight pod in "[[Scattered]]" (now possibly unusable). The other returns in operational status from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]".
*An experimental stealth fighter, the [[Blackbird]], is constructed using spare parts in the episode "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]". (Destroyed in the episode "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]").

=== Crew ===
Before the attack, ''Galactica'' has approximately 2,800 crewmen, while awaiting its decomissioning.{{ref|originalcrew}} By the time of the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', attrition has reduced this number to 2,660.{{ref|crew}} {{ref|crew}} Since "[[Act of Contrition]]", ''Galactica's'' offensive capability has also been greatly hampered by the number of [[List of Pilots|qualified pilots]] available, although ''Galactica's'' reunion with ''Pegasus'' has ameliorated this substantially.

==Running Tallies==
#{{note|vipers}}Running tally of Vipers:
#* With one operational flight pod, ''Galactica'' was apparently equipped with one squadron of Mk. VII [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]s. A second squadron of Mk. IIs formed part of a museum exhibit in the starboard flight pod.
#*The last squadron of Mk. VII's under the command of [[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]], ''Galactica's'' [[CAG]], are lost en-route to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] when they are disabled by a backdoor in the [[Command Navigation Program]] and subsequently destroyed.
#*At least 11 Vipers, all Mk. IIs, launch during the first attack on ''Galactica'', one of which is destroyed.
#*Three Mk. VII Vipers are seen in formation inside the Fleet before they hook up with ''Galactica''. These could have been left behind with the non-FTL capable ships, or could have been carried to Ragnar in other ships as Apollo was. This would help to account for the discrepancy of fighters between the Miniseries and "[[Act of Contrition]]" (see below).
#*Thirty-nine Vipers launch at the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]], of which eight are destroyed and one is severely damaged (piloted by [[Lee Adama]]), leaving 31. Some Vipers damaged in the previous engagement are possibly held for repairs.
#*In "[[Act of Contrition]]", Lee Adama states that there were 40 Vipers left on the ship. Perhaps this discrepancy can be accounted for by other Mk. VIIs that happened to find their way to the fleet at Ragnar?
#*At the end of that episode, one Viper, piloted by [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]], is severely damaged, and a second, piloted by [[Kara Thrace]], is destroyed in a crash landing on a nearby moon.
#*In "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]", Tyrol reports that due to atmospheric [[SAR]] operations, 13 Mk. II's and one Mk. VII are down for repairs, and that he's "out". Presumably the remaining 25 constitute the [[CAP]] and [[Alert Fighters]].
#*One additional Viper is "slapped together from pieces of the others". This doesn't change the total count, since still-useable parts are just being shuffled around. The damage inflicted by the atmosphere of the moon during Thrace's [[SAR]] is apparently a matter of cleaning time, not total failure and replacement.
#*In "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", Strike Force Two is comprised of twelve Vipers. Three of these, piloted by an unidentified pilot, [[Perry|Chuckles]], and [[Stepchild]], are destroyed. Strike Force One is comprised of at least seven Vipers. At least one of these, piloted by [[Fireball]], is destroyed.
#*According to the official Sci-Fi website, following ''Galactica's'' attack on a Cylon [[tylium]] mine in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", there are 35 remaining Vipers aboard ''Galactica''. This is consistant with the losses seen in that episode and "[[Act of Contrition]]", assuming that [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]]'s Viper was recovered and repaired.
#*At least 18 Vipers (11 Mk. IIs, 6 Mk. VIIs, one unidentified) are launched to defend the ship in "[[Scattered]]". None are destroyed onscreen, but in "[[Fragged]]", Apollo remarks that "seven birds" are down for repairs.
#*[[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] crashes Viper 591 into the flight deck in "[[Final Cut]]". It may have been salvaged - Hot Dog's Viper is damaged much more severely in "[[Act of Contrition]]".
#*Chief Tyrol declares Viper 289 a total loss and has it scrapped in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]". This would leave 34 remaining Vipers.
#*42 Vipers are deployed in the episode "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", including 7 Mk. VIIs. This flatly contradicts the counts given in previous episodes and official statements, and also ignores the continued attrition of Vipers noted by [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] in the episode itself. This should be regarded as a visual effects gaffe.
#*15 Vipers are launched against ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' in the [[Pegasus (episode)|episode]] of the same name.
#{{note|raptors}}Running tally of Raptors:
#* No official estimate is given of ''Galactica's'' initial Raptor loadout.
#* The Raptor accompanying [[Jackson Spencer|Ripper]]'s squadron, crewed by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], manages to escape destruction but is forced to land for repairs on nearby [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. It later returns intact to ''Galactica'' ([[Miniseries]]).
#* Raptors are deployed to five nearby systems in [[Water]].
#* Two Raptors, piloted by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Stubbs]], perform reconaissance duties in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]".
#* In "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]", three Raptors are deployed to scout [[Kobol]], but unexpectedly encounter a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in orbit. [[Raptor 3]] is immediately destroyed by collision with a [[Raider]]. [[Raptor 1]] is forced to crash land on Kobol, and only [[Raptor 275]] survives to report back to "Galactica".
#* In "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|Part II]]", three Raptors are sent to board "[[Colonial One]]" while [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Margaret Edmonson|Racetrack]] simultaneously take a fourth to deliver a nuclear bomb to the Kobol basestar. All four craft return safely.
#* In "[[Fragged]]", [[Raptor 305]] is scrapped for parts in order to mount a two-raptor [[SAR|search-and-rescue]] mission. This seemingly takes place very late in the same day as "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", which makes the sudden shortage mysterious.
#* Tigh orders a Raptor deployed to each ship refusing to resupply ''Galactica'' in "[[Resistance]]". At that time, these ships number at least eight, and [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] cites manpower shortage as the chief limiting factor. This means that either Tigh is unaware of ''Galactica's'' resources (unlikely), or the ship has or acquires 11 Raptors in total by the time they left the Colonies (which makes the equipment shortage in "[[Fragged]]" even harder to explain). At the end of this episode, Apollo escapes with one Raptor which he abandons on [[Cloud Nine]].
#* In "[[The Farm]]", Tigh explicitly states that they have "five raptors with [[Colonial Marine Corps|marine]] fire teams standing by". Including the two destroyed in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" and the one scrapped in "[[Fragged]]", this implies an initial complement of at least eight. If the Raptor stolen in "[[Resistance]]" has not yet been returned, the number would be nine.
#{{note|originalcrew}}Original crew:
#*In the Miniseries, Adama states that he has "almost 2,000" crew on board ''Galactica''.
#*In "[[Water]]," Baltar says there are 45,265 civilians in the Fleet. Given the stats of [[Survivor Count|total fleet population]] in that episode, that means there were 2,693 military personnel in the Fleet at the time. It is unclear if this was a gaffe or a [[Continuity errors (RDM)|retcon]], but the more recent figure is generally accepted.
#*In addition to the 85 killed in the flight pod fire (Miniseries), 29 Viper pilots are lost on-screen in the first three sorties, and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] goes MIA (all events in the [[Miniseries]]). This makes for a pre-attack total of 2,808 crewmembers.
#{{note|crew}}Running tally of crewmembers:
#*Thirteen pilots are killed in "[[Act of Contrition]]". Eight are recruited to replace them, leaving a net loss of five.
#*Three crewmen are killed by a suicide bomber in "[[Litmus]]".
#*Starbuck is seen giving combat flight training to fourteen [[nuggets]] in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", suggesting an additional six nuggets had been selected by that point. Apollo earlier alludes to a second group of trainees in "[[Act of Contrition]]".
#*Four Viper pilots are killed in action in "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]".
#*Ten die on [[Raptor 3]] in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", and Sharon Valerii is revealed as a Cylon agent.
#*Eleven crew are killed in the Cylon boarding action in "[[Valley of Darkness]]".
#*Four of the crew of [[Raptor 1]] die by the time the survivors are rescued in "[[Fragged]]".
#*Helo returns in "[[Home, Part I]]."
#*Subtracting these losses from the total given in "Water" yields no more than 2,662 crewmembers prior to the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''.
#*''Galactica's'' crew complement is currently unknown as of the Season 2 finale, although Admiral Adama mentions that it is vaguely half of its former strength

[[Category:Battlestars]] [[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Colonial Craft]] [[Category:Colonial Military]] [[Category:RDM]]

Gina Inviere

2006-03-12T20:30:11Z

Rocky8311: re: final death

{{Character Data|
|photo=[[Image:GinaPromo2.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|servicen=
|callsign=
|death= Committed suicide by detonating a nuke on [[Cloud 9]] in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]".
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status= Single, in a relationship with [[Gaius Baltar]]
|role= Cylon Infiltrator
|rank=
|actor= [[Tricia Helfer]]
|cylon= y
|name=
}}

''This page is about Gina, the copy of Cylon Model Number Six who is first seen as a prisoner, and who later joins the [[Demand Peace]] movement. See the [[Number Six]] article for information about other copies, including the one in [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]]'s head.''

'''Gina''' {{IPA|ˈʤi.nə}} is a [[Humano-Cylon|Cylon agent]] who posed as a crewmember aboard the battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]). She was identified by the crew of that ship and apprehended (killing seven crewmen in the process). She was incarcerated, brutally interrogated, tortured, and systematically gang-raped by many of the crew.

When ''Pegasus'' encounters ''Galactica'' and her fleet, Gina is examined by [[Gaius Baltar]]. He is heartbroken by her state, and resolves to help her in any way he can. He convinces Admiral [[Helena Cain]] to permit her to be fed, and recounts to Gina a story of his love for her copy on Caprica, before the Cylon attack ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

Gina begs for Baltar to kill her and put an ultimate end to her suffering. When Baltar reminds her that she would just be revived in another Number Six body somewhere else, Gina reveals to him that it wouldn't happen if the unknown Cylon ship that ''Pegasus'' had been tracking is destroyed. She calls the vessel a [[Resurrection Ship]], and that it was used to collect the consciousnesses of Cylons who die too far away from the [[Cylon homeworld]] and download them into new bodies. With no Resurrection Ship to download her consciousness, Gina would truly die if she were killed ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]).

When she senses that the Resurrection Ship has been destroyed, Gina begs Baltar to kill her. She is incapable of killing herself, because within the Cylon religion suicide is a sin. However, Baltar convinces Gina that she should go on living and get "justice" for what happened to her. With Baltar's help, Gina escapes from her cell, makes her way to Cain's quarters and shoots Cain with a pistol, killing her. Then, through unexplained means (probably aid from Baltar), she manages to escape the ''Pegasus'' ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

[[Image:Gina.jpg|right|thumb|Gina, the [[Demand Peace]] operative]]

After Laura Roslin finds herself at her death bed, the [[Demand Peace|Cylon peace movement]] summons Baltar to ''[[Cloud 9]]''. Here, Gina has assumed a role as one of the leaders within the peace movement, leaving her followers unaware of her Cylon nature. She disguises herself by means of glasses and a different hairstyle. Gina attempts to convince Baltar that, upon assuming the presidency, he should go up against Adama -- and thus solidify the distrust for the military within the Fleet. As a result of the massive sexual abuse she has suffered, unlike "standard" Number Six copies Gina is averse to intimate contact of any kind, as observed when she bites Baltar when he instinctly tries to kiss her. After Roslin recovers from her cancer -- thanks to Baltar -- Gina is given the nuclear warhead earmarked for Baltar's research into a [[Cylon detector]] ([[Epiphanies]]).

''Gina was supposed to appear in a subplot in "[[Downloaded]]", however the episode ran long and all of the scenes involving Cylons aboard'' Galactica ''were cut.''

Following Baltar's election as president of the [[Twelve Colonies]], he visits Gina in her room aboard the Cloud Nine, attempting to explain to her that because of his new duties he'd be unable to see as much of her as they'd like. After he remarks that he'd make what time he could on [[New Caprica]], she tells him that she wouldn't be leaving the ship to join the new colony. Angry, Baltar attempts to leave the room, but Gina simply says "stay," while proceeding to undress, choking back her physical aversion in a desperate attempt to make him stay with her. They share an intimate interlude, and later, while Baltar is being sworn in as president, Gina sits naked on the floor of her room in front of the nuclear warhead. The timer running, Gina is crying softly as the device detonates, destroying the Cloud 9 and several ships in the vicinity ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

With the [[Resurrection Ship]] destroyed, Gina's death is presumed final.

===Notes===
*Gina is a reference to some fans' derisive nickname for the Re-Imagined series, GINO - "Galactica In Name Only" (itself an allusion to [[Wikipedia:Republican In Name Only|RINO]], a political term) (Source: "Pegasus" podcast)
*Gina has darker hair than the other Number Six copies seen so far. It is unknown whether she has naturally white hair which she dyes honey-blonde (another part of her disguise), or all Sixes have naturally honey-blonde hair which they dye white. Gina had dark hair before joining the Peace Movement, but that could be the result of grime. (When Caprica-Six is reborn ([[Downloaded]]) her hair is white.)
*Gina's death is even more presumably final due to the testimony of a [[Number Five]] that [[New Caprica]] was uncovered by the Cylons by accident when they arrived one year after Gina's death. If Gina had been transmitted to a second Resurrection Ship, she might have disclosed the location of the Fleet sooner.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Anastasia Dualla/Archive 1

2006-03-11T07:11:47Z

Rocky8311:

Talk:Anastasia Dualla/Archive 1

2006-03-11T04:20:37Z

Rocky8311:

Sooooo...anybody else completely stumped as to how this whole wiki thing is going to go now? [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 22:20, 10 March 2006 (CST)

User:Rocky8311

2006-03-11T04:16:59Z

Rocky8311: intentional edit

Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II/Archive2

2006-03-11T04:15:54Z

Rocky8311:

== The Cliffhanger ==

I'm betting that Baltar's little gift to the [[Demand Peace]] movement makes its way to ''Pegasus'' and is about to destroy or mortally damage the battlestar in this season closer. Mortally damaging it makes more sense to allow ''Galactica'' (and the show) to gather some of the new resources that ''Pegasus'' brought before it has to be removed from the picture. Perhaps, in coordination with a probable Cylon attack, ''Pegasus'' may end up doing a "[[The Living Legend, Part II|Commander Cain charge]]" at the start of Season 3. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:52, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:Looks like I picked one hell of a week to quite drinking...--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:02, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::Is it just me, or does the second season seem to be bouncing from cliffhanger to cliffhanger, with the in-between episodes being nothing but filler? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:08, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:::It isn't just you... Looks like I picked one hell of a week to quit sniffing glue. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 12:22, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::I don't mind the "filler" episodes. I believe you need them to set up future stories down the road. I believe PEGASUS will stick around for one or two episodes next year(Gives them time to strip her down)....Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines!--[[User:Quig|Quig]] 16:36, 15 February 2006 (EST)

There's no cliffhanger, really. The Cylons win, humanity is occupied and the ships of the fleet are essentially empty with everyone down on Cylon-occupied New Caprica. The show is completely different from here on out. Cloud Nine is gone (which from a production standpoint makes sense--- no need for a planet-like ship when they have an actual planet) and all the leads but Lee, Adama and possibly Sharon are on the planet, hoping not to be killed by their new Cylon overlords. It's awesome. Oh, girlBilly seems to be sticking around as a character as well. [[User:numbertwelve|numbertwelve]]

:You have no idea; that's just fanfic. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:11, 24 February 2006 (EST)

::Could one or the other of you please explain what that last enormous edit-and-reversion was all about? Numbertwelve, have you seen the episode in question? Are you passing on reports from other sources, and if so, can you identify them? Merv, are you familiar with a fanfic that resembles his description? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:18, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:::Well, it sounds like he was just posting his own ''guesses/fanfic ideas'' without any basis on actual material, so I cleaned it up. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:31, 24 February 2006 (EST)
::::I believe that the info is coming from [http://greycoupon.livejournal.com/3808.html BIG SPOILERS]. Don't know the validity of it though.
:::::Based on the what I've read of the Part I summary, I'd say that the information was actually accurate. That said, I'm not sure this site really wants to post detailed episode summaries before the episode has actually aired anywhere, especially when we have no way of confirming the source.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 10:35, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:::::: In all likelihood, numbertwelve's comments stem from [http://www.patriotresource.com/bg/insights/spoilers/season2b.html here]. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:24, 8 March 2006 (CST)

::::::: Judging by that picture, I think those spoilers might be right, though I seriously hope they are dead wrong, anyone else hope this? --[[User:LeobenConoy|LeobenConoy]] 02:30, 10 March 2006 (TST)

:::::::: It certainly would be a heck of a sharp turn for the series, but, y'know, I'm OK with that. RDM really kinda needs to keep making sharp turns to keep the series from falling too much into the established track of the Original Series, for one thing. For another thing, I like surprises :-) I don't want this story to become too predictable. Actually, when I look back over the two seasons to date, RDM et alia have not allowed us to settle into anything like a routine for more than a few episodes before they kick over the tables again. That's a good thing. That said, if the spoilers are in fact correct...it's going to be a long six months 'til we find out how the situation resolves itself...--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 11:12, 9 March 2006 (CST)

== The Peace Proposal ==

I haven't actually seen "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]", yet (I don't have cable, so I'm basically watching via DVD as time allows), but reading the summary, I see no mention of the Cylon peace proposal in the story as aired. It looks as though the preliminary data for the episodes was somewhat misleading, and that the peace proposal won't come until Part II. The Part II article, however, still reflects the old information. Should this be changed now? Or just wait for Friday's airing and the full summary?--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 10:32, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Speechless ==
Holy crap they turned everything on its head. I can't think of a better way of stating the obvious. ONE YEAR LATER!?!?!? Crap. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 22:15, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Scar/Archive 1

2006-03-03T17:44:54Z

Rocky8311: disambig?

I'd like to point out that the Template box at the bottom of each episode page is wrong: "Scar" comes before "Sacrifice", not after it. This needs to be fixed but I don't know how to do this. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:25, 6 January 2006 (EST)

== Plausible Parallel? ==
Is it possible that this episode is a parallel to the [[The Lost Warrior (TOS)|episode in TOS]] in which there is a mano-e-mano showdown between a Human and a Cylon? I'm curious as to the possibility that RDM is taking each of TOS's episodes and "outdoing" them, both in believeability, realism, and intensity.--Hawke

:Almost certainly not. There is no TOS Viper vs. Ace Raider thing. It's actually a staple of many scifi tv shows for several years; the "Red Baron" episode. The good guys are at war with another race, and the hero must go up against the enemy's ace pilot. Notably, "[[Wikipedia: Space:_Above_and_Beyond|Space: Above and Beyond]]" did this when McQueen took out the ace Chig pilot, Chiggy von Rictoffen (sarcastic nickname they came up with for him). Long story short, no this is not at all from TOS. This is a classic military story, one of those things that doesn't even need to be scifi. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:15, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:: Abandon all hope, Ricimer. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:07, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:::'''The Gods don't want to [[You Can't Go Home Again|hear]] from Starbuck now. Because she's about to go out in that Viper and remove one of Their creations from Their universe. And when she gets back, she's going to drink a bottle of [[ambrosia]] as if it were Scar's frakking bio-mechanical blood, and celebrate his death! ''' -- [[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:14, 28 January 2006 (EST)

::Actually, it's funny that all the episodes that have been outdone were named after they were finished being written and the writers had no prior knowledge of the episodes they were homages to. I got this from the Battlestar Galactica Official Companion. BTW, I saw that Space ABove and Beyond ep and that;s what i thought of when I first heard of the Scar Raider. --Ltcrashdown 22:16, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:::LOL! Just finished watching that episode, and it's one of the best lines ever from that series. Ricimer paraphrased it well. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 19:41, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::::Even when McQueen quotes the Iliad at Chiggy before he finishes him off? "''Looking darkly upon Hector, swift footed Achilles answered, 'I cannot forgive you. As there are no trustworthy oaths between men and lions, there can be no love between you and me. Before then to glut with his blood, Ares, the god who fights under the shield's guard. Now the time comes for you to be a spearman and a bold warrior. You will pay in a lump for all the sorrows of my companions you have killed in your spear's fury.'' None of that "mercy to our enemies" stuff, "Cylons can be people too" things, no; straightfoward revenge. :) --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:07, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Did they do it?==

Ricimer, since I know you tape the episodes, I'll let you watch it again before removing that question. I think you'll agree with me that it's very clearly implied that Apollo stops things before they get that far. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:10, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:I actually watched this with several friends, and we got into a raging debate over whether this happened or not. About a third said no, a third said yes (including me), and a third said they weren't sure at all. It's sort of like how after "Pegasus", a lot of people were asking if Boomer got raped or not, because the editing was (intentionally) chaotic and confusing. However, we all know from the podcast of that that there were two versions and that was officially the "not raped" version.
:The podcast for this episode is ''vague''; he mentions only once the idea that "they'd get so drunk that they'd be in a state where they'd try to have sex with each other"--->OKAY, it wasn't quite that, but the point is he uses the word "try" in such a context (I listened to the podcast with friends) that after repeat listening...It didn't really give evidence one way or the other, plus these weren't the guys that directed it, etc. When *I* saw it, I got the ''impression'' that, through careful editing......frak. I can't put this more delicately forgive me. Frak. Well, to cut through it using Ad-libs; I thought that ''after Starbuck gets her panties pulled down, editing gets chaotic; Starbuck spreads her'' _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''and Apollo proceeds to'' _Verb_ ''her'' _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''with his own (conspicuous)'' _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''however Starbuck is proceeding too rough and really fast and Apollo keeps telling her to "slow down", which in context could mean *any number of things*. Starbuck then removes herself from the "presence" of his'' _Adverb_ _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''just as (off camera) he yanks his towel (or whatever) up, so when we actually see him in his first wideshot, he ''appears'' to have not removed his towel, when in reality he did but put it back off camera. ''--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:30, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::I really didn't find it at all ambiguous, and even if they did accomplish penetration extremely briefly, it's a crass thing to speculate about. The emotional consequences for Kara and Lee are the same regardless. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:23, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:::I am not being crass. I literally turned to the person next to me and said "Hey, wait a minute, did they just do it?" and no one was sure. It's not like I expect us to get any conclusive answeres based on analysis; I'm just saying "we're not sure"--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::::When I was watching it and Apollo had his hand on her ass, I turned to my friend and said, "It's about time" but I spoke too soon...--[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 22:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::: Keep in mind that the editing is chaotic enough that they start fooling around in the pilots lounge...and wind up going at it in one of the bunk rooms. I seriously doubt they got that far. My impression was that Apollo was working on foreplay...and Starbuck was rushing things...*shrug* in the end...who cares?-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]

== Launch Gaffe ==

Was it just me, or when Starbuck and Kat launched from the ''Galactica'' in Viper VIIs, didn't the tube sequence show a Viper '''II'''?--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 02:21, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:Noticed this as well. Apparently the show has no stock footage of a Mk. VII launch sequence. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:22, 4 February 2006 (EST)
::Unless they referred to Kat or Starbuck talking over wireless from within the launch tube, this could be explained as being the "other" Vipers flying on patrol for other parts of the asteroid belt.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:32, 4 February 2006 (EST)
:::Then it's a case of bad editing, as it implies (at least from how I saw it) that Kat's flying a II, as we saw Starbuck getting into a VII.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 02:35, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:::: I think what Ricimer means is that we can intnetionally misconstrue that as seeing someone ''else'' launching, even though, in actuality, it was an editing goof.--[[User:Day|Day]] 20:20, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::::Yes, we could, but it would be quite disingenuous to do so. I think we should call it the way it is. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:24, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::::: Well, depends on whether you want to start talking about how the Vipers changed appearances or whatever by assuming that the mistake makes canon. Anyway... I was just trying to clarify. --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:20, 5 February 2006 (EST)

==You are all driving me mad==
Please, for the love of god, use the "edit" link on the section you are working on. This allows other editors to work on other sections without incurring edit collisions. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:37, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:This place is getting really busy lately. Collisions are becoming more frequent, even on talk pages. Not sure if there is long-term help for this (or any wiki). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 5 February 2006 (EST)

==Props Given on... Old Props!==
Hey, did anyone else spot that [[Landram]] in the openning shot?--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:31, 4 February 2006 (EST)
:I noticed it but didn't know what it was (not a TOS fan). Nice catch! --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 22:41, 4 February 2006 (EST)
::So that's what they were called! I remember seeing them, made me smile when I watched the episode a 2nd time. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 22:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)
:::Maybe somebody could get a shot of the landram for use on the References page? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:04, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== Where did the music come from? ==

I swear that I have heard the background music before... It starts right at the end of "So say we all", and bleeds over through the workout scene. Where is it from, it is making me crazy?!?
: The Deer Hunter. Also, please sign your comments. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 15:05, 5 February 2006 (EST)
: You may sign your comments by using the a string of four tildes: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:04, 5 February 2006 (EST)
: Thank you so much for the origin of the music. It makes even more sense now... Yikes what tie ins this show sneaks in. ~~ LeslieW

== Picture ==

That's a cool pic and all, but it's already on the [[Scar (Raider)]] page, have the entire episode on my drive. I was trying to think of a scene that nicely summarized the whole episode, but I couldn't pick one. Any ideas on what I should take a cap of? --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 16:26, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:The first screen after Kat shoots him, immediately after his wing gets sheered off and there's a cloud of blood everywhere...but not TOO long after that, because as he crashes he gets so banged up that at the end you can't tell it's a Raider anymore; the FIRST shot, just as the wing comes off. Also, possibly one of Scar coming out of the sun just as Starbuck puts her finger up, or one of them fighting him with contrails coming off of their Vipers because of the dust. Upload a few and we'll pick. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:29, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::I thought about the sun one, but it makes a poor cap. Here are the other two, plus one I thought was good as well:
::Any other ideas, lemme know. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 22:47, 5 February 2006 (EST)
:::I like the "Scar-Firing" picture, the right most one. It's easy to see without actually having to click on it. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 22:56, 5 February 2006 (EST)
::::That's my favorite as well. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:05, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::I hate to be picky, but: the one with contrails has the camera so far away that the Vipers look too small, "Scar Firing" is good, but for a character named "Scar" the pic is of his least "scarred" side of his head, and although I like the Scar-Death one, I think that out of context it might be confusing. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:06, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::::Why don't we use the "Scar firing" pic for this article, and leave the existing one alone on Scar (Raider)? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:10, 5 February 2006 (EST)

== In a Room Somewhere... ==

Don't you have the feeling that, in a room somewhere, Richard (Hatch) and Dirk (Benedict) are looking at each other after watching the "moment of drunken resolve" scene between their one-time characters, and... there is a ''very'' awkward silence. What do you suppose is going through their minds? :) -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 00:03, 6 February 2006 (EST)
:Nothing that they probably haven't read before in "slash" fan fiction about their characters before. Besides, Kirk/Spock stuff came (no pun intended) years before. It ''is'' a funny thing to imagine, though. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:14, 6 February 2006 (EST)
::For several years now, whenever I am at a convention where both Richard Hatch and Dirk Bennidict are guests...they seem to do their best to avoid even looking in each others direction.-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]
:::They have their own issues between each other that originated from the original series... -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 18:06, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Kats Costume Change? ==

towards the end of the second act, we get the confrontation between Kat and Starbuck, where Kat punches Starbuck, just before Apollo comes in and orders them "Skids Up in 49 minutes."
At this point Kat is wearing her flight suit (well...half wearing it.)... next time we see her she is wearing her duty uniform (blues) walking through the memorial hallway, pining up the picture of "Beano"'s(?) girlfriend...then back in her flight suit about to jump in her viper.
Are we supposed to infer that this was her recollection/flashback while she was about to take off for her mission? or that with only 49 minutes to prepare for her C.A.P. she took the time to go change into her Blues...wander down to Memorial Hall...then go back..and resuit up for her C.A.P.?
-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]

Well yeah, RDM mentioned that in the podcast; just don't read into everything so much. Yeah, a lot of camerawork/director stuff could be a flashback for the purposes of telling a story; I mean lots of shows intercut this kind of stuff. It's not big revelation. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:02, 6 February 2006 (EST)

== Scar's Kill Count ==

Mentioned in this episode, I believe Scar killed 5 viper pilots: Reilly, Beano, BB, Duck, and JoJo. I think Duck was the kid that came to Starbuck for advice since she was telling him to follow BB's lead and never turn but the conversation was a little confusing to me, and it sounded like both were splashed. So 5 Vipers were downed by Scar in this episode and probably a couple others in Resurrection Ship Pt II and mayber earlier episodes. I am certain I heard the name Duck but was confused a little by Starbuck's ommission of his name on the list at the end... -- [[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]]

*Absolutely not. Duck was alive and well. He can be clearly seen in the finale toasting scene at the end. The audio you hear was of Duck shouting at BB to get away from Scar, but that's because BB got separated from Duck. Duck was fine. He was omitted from the list of the dead, because he is not dead.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 17:58, 6 February 2006 (EST)

::"I'm not dead yet..." --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:29, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== Disambiguation ==
Does anybody object to [[Scar]] pointing to a disambiguation between the episode and the Raider itself, rather than going straight to the episode? That's what we did with Pegasus. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 11:44, 3 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:William Adama/Archive 1

2006-02-25T04:47:02Z

Rocky8311:

Just curious, but what's going on with the page? I thought it had more information than this... -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:59, 5 May 2005 (EDT)

: As it turns out, [http://battlestarwiki.joebeaudoin.net/index.php?title=Adama%2C_William&oldid=3457 it did]? Is this currently being revised? If so, that's great. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 20:01, 5 May 2005 (EDT)

== Divorced? ==

Is there a source for his being divorced from Anne and a reason she is not mentioned in his "Marital Status" entry? --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 21:17, 28 December 2005 (EST)

:I don't believe Adama was divorced from Anne at all, but in any case no episode data confirms that status. Note he wears a wedding ring in the miniseries. Also note his sadness on announcing Caprica City's nuking, suggesting other loved ones (maybe Anne) was a victim, too. The only information we can confirm thus far is that Adama married twice. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:29, 17 January 2006 (EST)

== OK, NOT the Adama I Expected to Get Kissed ==

Wow. [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]] took me a bit by surprise at the end there. Not Cain getting shot, but Adama's little kiss with Roslin. That was an interesting turn. Not sure what to make of it, other than I was getting all girly-swishy watching it all like a soap opera. That should make the next episode more harder to watch with Roslin...well, don't want to spoil it. And damn, I'm glad the wiki's back up. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:32, 13 January 2006 (EST)

: I was ''incredibly'' impressed with Olmos' acting just after the kiss. After she turned away and his face fell... I could very easily sense the utter ''depth'' of sorrow the <s>Commander</s> Admiral was feeling. I've seen that face a few times in real life regarding real life sickness and loss and, well, as I said, I was impressed. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:35, 14 January 2006 (EST)

::Another good bit of Olmos' acting was in the last episode. I didn't notice it until after I listened to the podcast, but Olmos wipes away a tear as he turns around to hear Roslin say one more thing as he leaves Colonial One in the scene before the battle plan scene. He's a damn fine actor--they all are. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 14 January 2006 (EST)

::I thought that RDM said something in the podcast about Olmos spontaneously adding the kiss, which is why Roslin's reaction is so good. --[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 14:55, 16 January 2006 (EST)

:::That's correct. I learned this later myself when someone else noted this from the podcast as well as well as from the podcast when I listened in, too. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:26, 17 January 2006 (EST)

== "Roll the hard six" ==

Does anyone know what "rolling the hard six" actually refers to? I know it has to do with the game of craps, but I don't know specifically what it means. It would help if i did, because I've started using it completley inadvertently in everyday speech, along with [[frak]]. My friends look at me like I'm insane, its pretty bad. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 00:52, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:Dude...Six is the highest number on dice. "Rolling the hard six" means getting a high number, when your really need it in a difficult situation...as this is a statistically rare occurance, it is "hard" to do. This doesn't refer to anything specific at all; this is intuitive.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:01, 29 January 2006 (EST)

::First, I don't think you're right. I believe the reference is more specific than that.
::Secondly, It would have been a simple matter to phrase your response without a condescending tone. Instead of what you actually said, you could've said "I think 'rolling the hard six' simply refers to actually rolling a six on a die. Since six is the highest number on dice, it means getting a high number when you really need it, and since rolling a 6 is statistically rare, it is "hard" to do."
::Why is it necessary to be rude to other members of the wiki? It only encourages them to be rude back to you, and I know you've had problems with users flaming you in the past - well, this is why they did it. A less civilized person might decide to insult you every chance they get, after the several comments you've made at me.
::When you insult me or other frequent posters, it is merely an annoyance. However, when you insult those who are relatively new to the wiki, you are actually scaring them. I know if I got a comment like that on my first post, I might decide never to post again. This damages the wiki, as there may be quality posters waiting in the wings who you could be scaring off. Please, choose your words carefully and refrain from being rude - to everyone, from newbs to admins and everyone in between. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 11:13, 29 January 2006 (EST)
:::This is not rude, it is blunt honesty, and should be taken as such.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 11:27, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:::: There're plenty of ways to be honest and even blunt, but not rude. In fact, I don't think you were very blunt at all. Blunt would have been more like: "Six is the highest number on dice. That is "hard" to roll." And BMS's sample would have been ''just'' as honest (read: truthful) as your post. Additionally, just because you intended something to be blunt and honest, but not rude, doesn't mean others must take it that way; the onus is on ''you'' to make sure your intent is clear in the words and phrases you choose. --[[User:Day|Day]] 13:05, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:In [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craps standard craps]], "hard six" specifically refers to the combination 3-3 on two dice. You can roll a six 5 different ways (1-5,2-4,3-3,4-2,5-1) only 1 of which is "hard". When a player needs a six, any of the combinations will do. The odds against making a ''hard'' six are 10-1, since only 1 outcome is favorable and 10 are unfavorable (namely, the other 4 ways to make a six, and all 6 ways to make a seven). So the symmetry and low frequency of 3-3 lead to its special designation. The same is true of hard 4, 8 and 10. There is no "hard 2" or "hard 12" for a variety of reasons including the obvious one (there's only one way to roll them anyhow). --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 12:40, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:: Thanks, John. This has been bugging me for a long time, too. Now we all know. --[[User:Day|Day]] 13:05, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:::Yes, yes, thank you. I am quite sorry. Please, let's put this unpleasantness behind us.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13:14, 29 January 2006 (EST)
::::That's what I thought it was. I've noticed that I've also been saying this in normal conversation. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:32, 29 January 2006 (EST)
:::::Thanks a ton John. That helps a lot, now I can actually explain it when someone asks. Talos: its pretty bad, isn't it? Doesn't mean I'm gonna stop doing it, though! --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 13:42, 29 January 2006 (EST)

::::::Hey, don't feel bad, I insert it into conversation ''on purpose''--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:16, 29 January 2006 (EST)

==Husker==
Say, is there a way to get the Character template to stop saying William "Husker" Adama? He has not been addressed as Husker, so it might be more of a confusion than anything to have it say that. As a Commander and now an Admiral, he has not been known as a Viper pilot for quite a while. Long before we became "acquainted" with him. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 23:47, 24 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Number Five/Archive 1

2006-02-25T04:39:52Z

Rocky8311:

Are we sure his name is spelled "Aaron"? I could have sworn I saw "Aron" in the mini-series DVD subtitles.
--[[User:Laven|Laven]] 01:45, 1 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Someone needs to add information about his copies on Caprica in "[[Downloaded]]." I'm not quite sure how I would format it or fit it in to the rest of the article.--[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 23:38, 24 February 2006 (EST)

I'm curious: when was Doral identified as Five? Was it on [[Downloaded]]? [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 23:39, 24 February 2006 (EST)

Number three

2006-02-25T04:10:03Z

Rocky8311:

#REDIRECT [[D'anna Biers]]

Three

2006-02-25T04:09:53Z

Rocky8311:

#REDIRECT [[D'anna Biers]]

Number eight

2006-02-25T04:09:19Z

Rocky8311:

#REDIRECT [[Sharon Valerii]]

Eight

2006-02-25T04:09:06Z

Rocky8311:

#REDIRECT [[Sharon Valerii]]

Scar (Raider)

2006-02-24T18:54:34Z

Rocky8311:

[[Image:Scar.jpg|thumb|250px|The Cruel Visage of Scar]]

'''Scar''' is the nickname for a [[Raider]] fighter ace. The nickname is derived from battle damage on the Raider's fuselage that resembles a scar. The nickname blends logically since Raiders have been discovered as a biomechanical creation of the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] which is bred for space battle.

Scar is responsible for many ruthless, successful attacks against [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]. It was known for its taste for [[nugget|nuggets]], and favors separating them from their wingmates for an easy kill. The need to eliminate Scar's threat increases a pilot rivalry between Captain [[Kara Thrace]] and Lieutenant [[Louanne Katraine]].

Scar is later destroyed on the 29th day of mining operations. Starbuck engages him, but breaks off a suicide run against him in favor of luring him into the sights of her wingman, Kat. Kat scores a crippling blow on Scar, causing Scar to careen into an asteroid, killing it in an explosion of shrapnel and gore.

It is postulated by [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon]] that the cause of Scar's unusual aggressiveness was caused by pent-up rage after repeated [[Resurrection Ship|resurrections]], particularly after one very painful death. This may have been at the hands of Starbuck when she forcibly removed the "brain" from a downed Raider ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]). It is unlikely that Scar will be resurrected again, due to the loss of the Resurrection Ship. ([[Scar]]).

== Notes ==

* This storyline of destroying an enemy fighter ace may be derived from the Royal Air Force's hunt for [[Wikipedia:Manfred von Richthofen|Manfred von Richthofen]] (a.k.a. the "Red Baron") during [[Wikipedia:World War I|WWI]].

* Scar itself may possibly be the reincarnation of the Raider Starbuck dueled with, killed, and used in Episode 1.05 [[You Can't Go Home Again]], as hinted at by Sharon.

[[Category: A to Z]] [[Category: Cylons]] [[Category: RDM]]

Scar (Raider)

2006-02-24T18:53:49Z

Rocky8311:

[[Image:Scar.jpg|thumb|250px|Scar.]]

'''Scar''' is the nickname for a [[Raider]] fighter ace. The nickname is derived from battle damage on the Raider's fuselage that resembles a scar. The nickname blends logically since Raiders have been discovered as a biomechanical creation of the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] which is bred for space battle.

Scar is responsible for many ruthless, successful attacks against [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]. It was known for its taste for [[nugget|nuggets]], and favors separating them from their wingmates for an easy kill. The need to eliminate Scar's threat increases a pilot rivalry between Captain [[Kara Thrace]] and Lieutenant [[Louanne Katraine]].

Scar is later destroyed on the 29th day of mining operations. Starbuck engages him, but breaks off a suicide run against him in favor of luring him into the sights of her wingman, Kat. Kat scores a crippling blow on Scar, causing Scar to careen into an asteroid, killing it in an explosion of shrapnel and gore.

It is postulated by [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon]] that the cause of Scar's unusual aggressiveness was caused by pent-up rage after repeated [[Resurrection Ship|resurrections]], particularly after one very painful death. This may have been at the hands of Starbuck when she forcibly removed the "brain" from a downed Raider ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]). It is unlikely that Scar will be resurrected again, due to the loss of the Resurrection Ship. ([[Scar]]).

== Notes ==

* This storyline of destroying an enemy fighter ace may be derived from the Royal Air Force's hunt for [[Wikipedia:Manfred von Richthofen|Manfred von Richthofen]] (a.k.a. the "Red Baron") during [[Wikipedia:World War I|WWI]].

* Scar itself may possibly be the reincarnation of the Raider Starbuck dueled with, killed, and used in Episode 1.05 [[You Can't Go Home Again]], as hinted at by Sharon.

[[Category: A to Z]] [[Category: Cylons]] [[Category: RDM]]

Talk:Leland Adama/Archive 1

2006-02-24T09:09:48Z

Rocky8311: /* Promotion!? */

== Role ==

Should Lee's role be changed? I get the feeling he'll very shortly be CAG of Galactica again, but "currently" he's a Raptor pilot on Pegasus. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 20:14, October 19, 2005 (EDT)

:It should be changed when it changes. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:35, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

==Cylons==

Can anybody think of any circumstances where Lee has interacted with a Cylon prisoner? I don't think he has interacted with any Cylon agent after they were known to be one. If it's true, it strikes me as strange. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 17:54, October 20, 2005 (EDT)

:With Caprica-Sharon in [[Home, Part I]]. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:32, 20 October 2005 (EDT)

:Why? There have only been three Cylons identified within the fleet so far. One [[Litmus|blew himself up]], Starbuck was tasked with interrogating [[Flesh and Bone|another]], and Lee was in the brig during Gal-Boomer's last days. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:00, 20 October 2005 (EDT)

==Lee vs Adama==
The article was just modified to change several instances of Adama to Lee. Changing "Lee" to "Adama" done as an effort to be consistent with the principle of using the last name on "home pages" of characters. [[Talk:Ellen Tigh|See Discussion Here]] I don't want to immediately revert that change (as I know exactly how long it takes to make those changes, having done the inverse), but I was wondering if we're going to stick with the last name policy or not. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:47, 13 December 2005 (EST)

:I've reverted it. Our policy is clear and well-discussed. Mq59 can take it up on [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions]] if he has a new point to make. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:13, 13 December 2005 (EST)

== Source for "Floating in Water" Cylon Comparison? ==

Robojerk, I could not find a reference to the one you noted in a recent edit on Lee's comparison to being a Cylon. I'd like to keep that one in if you can tell the episode where you find that information. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:06, 17 January 2006 (EST)
:I think he's referring to the "swim in the stream" business. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 19:12, 17 January 2006 (EST)

==Demotion==

When exactly did it happen? Last time I checked, removing someone from flight status isn't an automatic demotion. Can someone point out exactly when he got busted? [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:35, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:My take on this: There is typically one Captain in any pilot group--that person's also the CAG. When Stinger was assigned CAG for all pilots, Adama might have been demoted by default, but I can't find any record of that happening directly (insignia checker take note). When Thrace was promoted to Captain, she became CAG as well. While pilots can be Captains when not assigned to a group (as Adama was before he arrived on ''Galactica''), being actively assigned to a battlestar may also change things. Another likely point was that Cain demoted him as punishment in addition to revoking his flight status until Thrace asked for him back. Educational guesses--maybe someone can read through the transcripts? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:35, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::Bill Adama refers to him as Lieutenant in Resurrection Ship, Part II. No idea when the actual demotion took place, or if [[Cole Taylor]] and [[George Birch]] remained captains after losing their CAG position. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:17, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::I made the edit about his Lieutenant status. I assumed that it was a result of Cain's punishment rather than being assigned to Pegasus, as Stinger still refers to him as Captain in the teaser of Res Ship II. Also, getting a demotion due to reassignment sounds really wierd (though possible, I guess). --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:35, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::::I think that Birch got a temporary promotion to captain, to be CAG, but that others like Taylor and Lee were captains through normal promotion through ranks (i.e. not dependent on being CAG or not) thus I think/hope that Apollo will be promoted right back to Captain by next week's episode, as I see NO reason why his father wouldn't just promote him back to Captain. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]][[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:06, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::::At the risk of digressing, the kid did not exactly look... spaceworthy, at the end of last episode. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:39, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::::::I'll digress right with you. Lee's expression matched the stunned, open-mouthed expression of the character, Cameron, from "Ferris Bueller's Day Off", after Cameron "kills" his dad's Porsche. Lee's worse off than Kat was when she was drugged out on stims. He's clinically depressed. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:22, 20 January 2006 (EST)

== Promotion!? ==

Aw, hell. While we were all chewin' through what Major pips looked like, [[The Captain's Hand|recent events]] turn Lee Adama into a Commander!? I hope we all realize how really really confusing THIS is going to be from the disambigs for "Commander Adama" and first-season to mid-second season links. Curse you, Ron Moore! Curse you!!! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:05, 17 February 2006 (EST)

I don't get it either! What's with the Admiral?! Why did he put Lee in command of the Pegasus? Because he knows some tactics? He knows very little about commanding. Even Garner knew more! Would Lee sacrifice his life to save Pegasus? I doubt it. From episode to episode I hate Apollo more and more. The old man has lost his mind or what?! A flyboy in command? Worser than an engineer if you ask me. And how the hell got flyboy Adama promoted two time in a couple of weeks?! And WHY?! Why wouldn't the Admiral put Tigh in command instead? He has the ability to command a BS with discipline and Pegasus could adapt very fast to it because Cain was like that too. A flyboy in command? Right. Now that's what I call out of the box thinking. Well, it's light years from the box in this case. What will come next? Apollo will candidate for the presidency? Oh, I know: In the next episode (Downloaded) he will be revealed as God and he will lead the fleet to salvation. I hope the Pegasus will be destroyed pretty soon when Lee "God" Adama will be on board.

--[[User:Nyiz|Nyiz]] 16:32, 18 February 2006 (EST)

:Aircraft carriers are usually commanded by aviators; the same is true of Battlestars. Both Admiral Adama and Colonel Tigh are former aviators, as were, as far as we can tell from the insignia, Cain and Fisk. Furthermore, Tigh doesn't want a command. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 19:52, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Wow, from Captain to Major to Commander in a matter of days. That's got to be a record somewhere. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 17:41, 18 February 2006 (EST)

No, more like Captain to Lieutenant to Captain to Major to Commander in a matter of weeks. (haha) It's more maddening when you think of it that way. But without him, the Pegasus wouldn't have made it out of that trap; that had to be tricky. Granted, Garner's repair was vital too.

I need to go back and watch the episode, I totally had the impression that the Admiral was transfering to Pegasus and Lee was taking Galactica. I'm most curious however to find out who his XO is going to be. My only possible guess is Captain Kelly, Galactica LSO [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 18:43, 18 February 2006 (EST)

: I also got that impression, Rocky. Also, everyone, it's mentioned that "The Captain's Hand" is a month after "Sacrifice", so his promotions might not be as rapid-fire as they seem. Not that it's a normal, slow progression, but neither is it Captain on Monday, Major on Thursday and Commander on Saturday. As for Lee's XO... I'd like to see some Marine or something promoted to command-level staff. Maybe Hadrian. Though I have no idea how realistic that is. What, exactly, does a Sergeant at Arms do? --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:48, 19 February 2006 (EST)

::Well, as a Noncommissioned officer (that is, a non-officer), it would be impossible to become the XO. Someone slap me down if I'm wrong, but a useful generalization is that people who graduate from college are elligible to become Officers and those who don't tend to "enlist" (gradually being promoted toward from Privates toward non-commissioned officer ranks like Sergeant). (See [[Military Ranks (RDM)]]) When an enlisted soldier reaches the top of the Noncommissioned officer hierarchy, they don't jump to an Officer Rank (in BSG's case: Ensign). Like I said; if I'm way off base, someone correct me.

::It's kind of strange, come to think about it, that for a show that works so hard to break stereotypes by casting Starbuck and Kat as the top aces, that most senior officers in the fleet are, and have been, old white men. (Tigh, Fisk, Garner, Kelly, Cottle, Lee...) The RDM feels less racially diverse than the TOS in some ways. Not that I'm complaining about anything; I think everything has been cast well and an "alien" civilization of humans doesn't need to fit our expectations anyway.... [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 04:09, 24 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Military Ranks (RDM)/Archive3

2006-02-24T08:13:45Z

Rocky8311: /* Piping */

Isn't Cally referred to as a Specialist at some point? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 21:32, 29 August 2005 (EDT)

Definitely. There's a time when the Chief tells the "Specialist" to go do something. -QuintusCinna.

Well, that just fracks up the whole thing then. Not only do we have Cally in the wrong place and we're missing a rank, but it's an Army/Air Force rank for a Fleet member. :( (On the plus side, Specialists are E-4s though IIRC.) --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 21:38, 29 August 2005 (EDT)

Let's be open with the Chief's use of "specialist". It might have been relative to her MOS, though I doubt it. Such as tech specialist, deck specialist, things of that sort. In the military we often called them specialists too, though I do believe, just like you, that the chief was meaning it in the context of rank. --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]]

==Abbreviations==
Here is the list of abbreviations I wrote for the ranks here. The enlisted ranks for Marines are still a little rough though, the "all caps" ranks are in the US Army style, others use lower case, eg Master Sergeant: MSG, MSgt.

Officer 
O-11 Fleet Admiral No abbrev., FAdm could work 
O-10 Admiral Adm 
O-9 Vice Admiral VAdm 
O-8 Rear Admiral RAdm 
O-7 Commander Cdr 
O-6 Colonel Col 
O-5 Major Maj 
O-4 Captain Capt 
O-3 Lieutenant Lt 
O-2 Lieutenant Junior Grade LtJG 
O-1 Ensign Ens 

Enlisted 
E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer MCPO 
E-8 Senior Chief Petty Officer SCPO 
E-7 Chief Petty Officer CPO 
E-6 Petty Officer 1st Class PO1 
E-5 Petty Officer 2nd Class PO2 
E-4 Petty Officer 3rd Class PO3 
E-3 Crewman CN (based on US Navy Seaman SN) 
E-2 Crewman Apprentice CA ("") 
E-1 Crewman Recruit CR ("") 

Marine 
E-9 Sergeant Major SGM 
E-8 Senior Master Sergeant/Master Sergeant SMSgt/MSG 
E-7 Master Sergeant/Sergeant 1st Class MSG/SFC 
E-6 Staff Sergeant SSG 
E-5 Sergeant SGT 
E-4 Corporal CPL 
E-3 Private 1st Class PFC 
E-2 Private 2nd Class PV2 
E-1 Private Recruit PVR 
--[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:33, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

: I went ahead and formatted your post, Talos, so that it was easier to read. I don't think I broke anything, did I? Anyway, I think the all-caps ranks look loud. I know that's kind of an artifact of the internet, but still... I'd rather just cap the first letter of a word from an abbreviation. Thus "PFC" is fine because each of those are the first letter of a word. On the other hand, I'd rather "Sgt." than "SGT". Also, "Cpt." and "Cmdr." are more intuitive to me, but I don't know if I made those up or ''where'' they came from. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:03, 15 September 2005 (EDT)
::Thanks for the formatting, that's how it was whem I typed it in notepad. I see how that works now. Like I said, the reason they are all caps is that it is based on the Army enlisted structure. I didn't go with the Marine Corps structure because it's missing the two ranks unique to the MC, Lance Corporal and Gunnery Sergeant. Here is a link about the US Military ranks: [http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/officers.html]. There is a link on top to the enlisted ranks. What is interesting is the way the US Navy O-6 rank's head is turned compared to the others. Also, Capt and Cdr are how the USN abbreviates Captain and Commander. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:00, 15 September 2005 (EDT)
:::I wanted to add something else, the CAPS are only used in forms, charts, etc. When written with the name it is normal case, so Hadrian,... Rank: SGT, but ...Sgt. Hadrian. I can't believe I forgot this. I must be slipping. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:42, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

== Adama ≠ Fleet Admrial ==

: ''Following was moved from [[User talk:Joe.Beaudoin]] by [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] at 21:45, 17 October 2005 (EDT).''

Noticed something while browsing and thought I might mention it...

On the page for Military Ranks (RDM), the supposition is that the rank of Commander (i.e. Cdr. Adama) is equivalent to a US Navy Rear Admiral. In my extensive reading, I have found that there are a few reasons why Commander is not equal to a Rear Admiral or Commodore.

Battlestar Groups are roughly analogous to Carrier Battle Groups, the current major organizational format for the US Navy. CBGs are commanded as an entire body by a Rear Admiral Lower Half, while the carrier itself is commanded by a Captain (O-6). It is possible that, while the vessel was in lay-up at the Scorpion Ship Yards, the Pegasus was part of a functioning BSG. This would explain why Adm. Nelena Cain is in command of the Pegasus. Meanwhile, the Galactica was quite alone at the beginning of the mini-series, and on the verge of decommissioning and conversion. Adama's rank could be considered analogous to an O-6 since the Rear Admiral LH in charge of BSG-75 would have moved to another BSG while Commander (Captain) Adama took the Galactica into retirement. In a footnote in an earlier draft of the page, it was stated that since Adama had the authority to assume command of the fleet (Miniseries), he would have to carry flag rank. This was likely a plot device, and it was never necessary to justify it, since no other Colonial Fleet vessel survived (excepting Pegasus, which was most likely already gone). In the modern US Navy, it would be highly improbable for the Admiral in charge of a CBG to assume command of the entire Navy.

S. Price

:I expect this would be more useful on [[Talk:Military Ranks (RDM)]] than on Joe's talk page. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:24, 17 October 2005 (EDT)

==How Many Admirals==

Although Nagala and Cain are both referred to as simply "admiral", I don't think that's presents strong evidence for them all being of the same rank, distinguished only by seniority. In the real world, both a one-star and four-star Admiral are referred to as simply "Admiral", unless a precise distinction must be made - not the case in the heat of combat, when Nagala's identity and rank would have been quite well known anyway. Furthermore, RDM's comment that Cain was only one promotion up from Commander strongly indicates that there were additional ranks above her.

The methodology of this page to date has been to identify BSG universe ranks with their (rough) NATO-equivalents. This seems sensible to me, since no precise overview of the BSG rank system has been given yet, and it makes sense to evaluate new information with regard to an existing military structure with which the show's creators are familiar. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:39, 7 December 2005 (EST)

::I agree. I can't imagine a "promotion date" hierarchy working very well for establishing seniority between fleet commanders. I don't know how common inter-fleet operations would be, but there would be a lot more friction if equal ranked admirals were issuing orders to each other. While a twelve-admiral "quorum of twelve" would be a very democratic and fair sounding concept, military thinking tends to prefer hierarchy to committee, especially in cases where decision need to be made quickly. I wonder if Cain's insignia might provide any insight into the ranks (and whether there might be higher ones). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:28, 7 December 2005 (EST)

We never see Cain referred to as a "rear admiral" either. Looking at the insignia on the page, there's only one Admiral insignia anyway—there is absolutely no evidence anywhere that rear admirals and vice admirals even exist in Battlestar Galactica. Moore himself only mentions one grade of "admiral" in his blog entry. So essentially what's happening is that people are making things up and pretending it's in the canon just to make Colonial Fleet correspond perfectly with the US Navy.

In response to "I can't imagine a "promotion date" hierarchy working very well for establishing seniority between fleet commanders.", the fact is, the real military uses that hierarchy consciously. For instance, the seven US generals and admirals promoted to five star rank in 1944 were deliberately promoted on consecutive days—Leahy in the 15th, Marshall on the 16th, King on the 17th, MacArthur on the 18th, Nimitz on the 19th, Eisenhower on the 20th, and Arnold on the 21st of December—to allow for such a hierarchy.

More importantly, Colonial Fleet was probably a small and shrinking military force anyway, largely because they had nothing to do—the colonies were united and there was no foreign threat for over 40 years. Furthermore, there can't have possibly been that many ships in the fleet anyway, if Galactica and Pegasus were the only survivors. Four grades of admiral exist are necessary when you're the United States Navy and you have 300 ships. We have no evidence Colonial Fleet was that large. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:17, 7 December 2005 (EST)

:1.) I can't speak for the source on those insignia myself - did [[User:Winterfell]] every say where he found them?

:2.) We know there were at least 120 battlestars, next to the US Navy's 12 aircraft carriers, so I have difficulty with that argument.
::At which point? The Cylon war was 40 years ago. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:56, 7 December 2005 (EST)
:::At the time of the Cylon Attack. When Adama tells Starbuck that 30 battlestars have been destroyed, she replies in shock that "that's a quarter of the fleet!". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:15, 7 December 2005 (EST)
::::OK. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:36, 7 December 2005 (EST)

:3.) I don't think we're pretending anything is in Canon here, and if it looks that way to you, I don't mind making a clearer distinction. The fact is simply that we don't know much about the Colonial Navy, and that comparing the ranks observed on the show to the ranks of a well-documented force is an instructive exercise. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:28, 7 December 2005 (EST)

::Your clarifications look good to me, Philwelch. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:34, 7 December 2005 (EST)
I don't know if it means anything but in Pegasus, the DRADIS screen after they identify the Pegasus has two stars next to the Peggie's symbol. Maybe she's a two-star admiral. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:17, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:Here's what I mean. Note the stars (they are more blob-like here but are stars) next to the Pegasus on the right and how the identically targeted Galactica has none. Also, note that the Pegasus can ID the Gal's Vipers but the Galactica doesn't show the four Pegasus Viper's callsigns. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:54, 28 December 2005 (EST)
[[Image:GalPegDradis.JPG|thumb|DRADIS displays, Galactica and Pegasus ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]])]]
::Veering off topic, but Kat is apparently flying "Viper 24" in that scene. Have we seen two-digit numbers used for Vipers elsewhere? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:08, 28 December 2005 (EST)
:::Not that I know of. I was wondering about this earlier, maybe the two digit number is shorthand eg. her Viper is 5624NC or something. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:34, 28 December 2005 (EST)

:: I'm assuming this is a moot point here now, but I'll chime in anyway. Of the 120 or so Battlestars that were commissioned at the time of the attacks on the colonies, I'd say we're missing some information to make an educated guess as to who commands what. Starbuck mentioned 'fleet', so I'm working under the assumption that the word 'Battlestar' is used to describe a military ship in general, rather than a specific type of ship (Sort of like the USS in US Navy ships) . That said, I'm guessing there are also more than two classes of Battlestar (Mercury class and whatever class Galactica belongs to can't be the only two),and they're somehow organized into a type of numbered fleet command structure. An Admiral would command the numbered fleet, Commanders would command the smaller support craft and so on down the line. Above the numbered fleets is someone like Admiral Nagala from the mini, who commands the ENTIRE fleet and directly supervises the numbered fleet admirals. In Galactica's case, she was being prepared for decommissioning anyway, so she didn't fall under a numbered fleet, instead reporting directly to Fleet Headquarters on Picon in the mini. I know it's a bit long winded, but hopefully that sort of explains why there aren't 120 or so admirals in the fleet running around giving orders...:) [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 15:07, 18 January 2006 (EST)

::: I think you're misunderstanding things. A battlestar ''is'' a type of ship. It's like saying destroyer, or aircraft carrier, though, so there can be different classes of battlestar. The name comes from what role it's intended to play in combat (a combination, actually, but a carrier being one of those roles). I believe our understanding is that a Battlestar Group (BSG) was a battlestar and its accompanying support fleet, very similar to the US Navy's Carrier Groups. So an admiral would probably actually be in charge of a few BSGs (with a Commander like Adama being in charge of his BSG alone) and you might have an admiral above that controling a group of lower admirals (think CINCLANT or CINCPAC) and you might not... Then you've got Nagala at the top telling ''everyone'' what to do. Anyway... a battlestar is not just any combat ship, a BSG is not a group of battlestars (but a group of ships with a battlestar in lead), and, no, all my ranting doesn't get us any closer or farther from the question of how many Admirals the COlonial Fleet had before the Attack. --[[User:Day|Day]] 15:44, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:::: I think you and I just both said the same thing! And I wholeheartedly agree, we're no closer to a solution...[[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 15:51, 18 January 2006 (EST)

==Insignia==
I'd advocate getting rid of the conjectural insignia. It would be nice if we could find actual screen captures to use instead of Winterfell's (admittedly nice looking) drawings, for credibility's sake. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:22, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:The conjectural ones, yes. The ones that seem to correspond with screen captures we do have, I think it's safe to keep. Is there anyone here with HD captures of the episodes? If so that would help greatly. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:53, 11 December 2005 (EST)

::You know what I think? We should have both. I really appriciate the clarity of the illustrations. Let us have both, side-by-side, so that readers may verify the accuracy, but also clearly see what the insigniae are. --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:12, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:::Speaking of this, Major on down in the officers insignia are very hard to see. Can we get versions with more contrast or better colors or something?--[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 22:25, 11 December 2005 (EST)

::::After this last episode, we finally got a good look at Major, and the one on here is close, but is off a little. Same can be said about the one for Captain too. On that one, the middle peak /\ needs to be closer to the top of the insignia. On Major, their is equal (more than shown) space between all of the peaks /\.--[[User:Bpense|AdmPense]] 21:25, 23 February 2006 (CST)

==Tyrol & Hadrian==
Small point - Chief Tyrol and Sergeant Hadrian are assigned equivalent ranks in the table. During his arrest/detention and again during interview in Litmus the Chief puts great stress on calling Hadrian by her rank over and over, this always inplied to me that he considered himself above her in rank. Also if you watch it through on slow-mo zoomed in... (ok now i'm getting sad)... She has a "green diamond with a single stripe" and he has a "green diamond with single stripe and an arrowhead on each side" ie the ranks currently in the table as CPO for Tyrol and PO (of some grade) for Hadrian. - I didn't want to edit the main page as this is my first ever wiki experience. - Grible

:Thanks for your note, and your caution. Does anyone have screen captures of Tyrol & Hadrian's rank insignia? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:26, 29 January 2006 (EST)

::I disagree: listen and you'll see that he's saying like "It was ''the Sergeant'' that was responsible for that", etc. And because he was on trial, it's not like he'd be presumptuous enough to call her by name, but at the same time, he wanted to be condescending and shift the blame to her. As they've already stated on screen, Tyrol is the highest Non-Com Colonial Fleet officer, and Sergeant Hadrian is the highest-ranking Colonial Marine Non-Com; they've both got the highest Non-Com rank. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:32, 29 January 2006 (EST)

I've got screen captures to support my point now, I must needs be go to work however, how do i get the captures to you?
Also, Just because Hadrian is the ranking Marine aboard Galactica doesn't mean she has to hold the highest rank, Galactica is short of Marines from the start. I would suggest that a ship on it's way to decommission only has the bare minimum of marines under an appropriatly ranked person (Hadrian) to do marine stuff (guard things etc) onboard. No one expects them to need Marines for boarding/landing parties or to defend the ship. Furthermore, Hadrian is the Master-at-Arms, she's the ships policeman. If Galactica had a full unit of marines chances are there would be commissioned marine officers and a complete command structure. I suggest she is a relativly low ranked NCO with a handful of marines to act as a security force aboard a ship about to leave the service, then look what happened... - Grible

--No. "Sergeant" is the highest NCO rank, anything higher would be a commissioned officer. That's the same position Tyrol is in.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 10:54, 30 January 2006 (EST)

--yes and no, "Sergeant" used in conversation could mean any level of Sergeant. She could be anything from E4-E9 and still be legitimatly called Sergeant. Since I'm only (and how anal do i feel) suggesting she be bumped down to the PO grade she would still be a Sergeant just a lower ranked one.
Also... do Marines exist at all? Or is "Marine" a job title like "Machine Operator" or "Comms Tech"?
the ranks being assigned Marine sounding names but there being no "Marine Corp" as such? Are we blinded by the need to make this fit the US system?
However the point is I've got Screen captures from Litmus that show her coller insig as being what this page has defined as PO (1st or 2nd) she's in the wrong place whatever the reasoning behind Marines.(my understanding of wiki isn't up to linking to the image but it's in the list called TyrolHadrianinsig.jpg) - Grible
:Here you go with the pic. It's not a matter of shoehorning the US Marine rank system. Marines have a seperate rank system, we have two examples PFC Kelso and Sergeant Hadrian. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:19, 30 January 2006 (EST) [[Image:TyrolHadrianInsig.jpg|thumb|right|Tyrol/Hadrian Rank Comparison]]
::Oh, and in Final Cut, during Kelso's interview, the text reads PFC Scott Kelso, CMCR which would be the Colonial Marine Corps Reserve. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:22, 30 January 2006 (EST)
::: [[Scott Kelso]] is displayed pretty clearly as being PFC (see his character pic). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:24, 30 January 2006 (EST)
:::: I conceed on the existance of Marines! - Grible
:::::Thanks SV, I just got to that scene and was about to take a screenshot. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:31, 30 January 2006 (EST)

::::::You're arguing about changing the rank equivalence of characters, and you didn't even know that the [[Colonial Marine Corps]] existed? Please read this link, it has more info than I can list here. Officially, the [[Colonial Fleet]] ranks are as stated above Admiral, Commander...Lieutenant, Chief Petty Officer, etc. etc. Also officially, RDM has stated that the Marines don't use this rank structure, but an entirely different one. '''Comparing collar rank insignia is meaningless'''. Because they use an entirely separate rank structure, they almost certainly have different rank insignia. We know that "Sergeant" is the highest Marine non-com rank, Commander Adama stated in that episode that Sergeant Hadrian, their Master-At-Arms, was the highest ranking Marine on the ship, and we've seen other Marines who were "Sergeant"'s so I think she's the highest rank of "Sergeant". The reason Tyrol acts like she outranks him is because she's the ''de facto'' MP (military police) leader aboard ''Galactica'', and has been given greater responsibilities as a result. But they have equivalent rank.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:38, 30 January 2006 (EST)

::::::Maybe Sgt. Hadrian is the highest-ranking Marine on the ship because they just didn't have any Staff Sgts/Gunnery Sgts/First Sgts/Sgt Majors. If Galactica is the equivalent of an aircraft carrier they would just have a small detachment of marines—most of the marines could be aboard "amphibious ships" instead. Incidentally, the Marines could be a part of the Fleet just as, say, the Royal Marines are part of the Royal Navy, or the US Marines used to be a part of the US Navy until 1947. Was there a Colonial Army? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:30, 30 January 2006 (EST)

I was dipping a toe about the colonial marines, my point was really that, did they have to be a seperate service? I've been slapped down, leave it be :)

IMHO Tyrol acts like he out ranks her (which is borne out by the coller pins). Else he should call her Sir/Ma'am not repeatedly use her rank and be borderline insulting to her. As above just because she is the highest ranking marine on the ship doesn't make her the highest rank avalible.
She is the Master-at-Arms even if she is equal in rank to the other sergeants, which I'm not arguing for (there are plenty of sergeant grades to go around), she would still be in charge.
On a more fundamental point i would also suggest comparing collar rank insignia is the only meaningful way of establishing relative rank. There really wouldn't be much point in having it otherwise. For instance all of the branches of the US army forces use a unified collar ranking system to streamline relative ranks, isn't that the point? The coller pins used are the old army ones but everyone uses them. It makes no sense for a Navel LtCmdr to wear Oak leaves (not very naval) but it draws the link to Army/Air/Marine Majors, this is the point no? - [[User:Grible|Grible]] 17:37, 30 January 2006 (EST) (look at me learning wiki!)

:At least in the US, enlisted are never called "sir", only commissioned officers. Notice how everyone calls Tyrol "Chief". Even in terms of officers, you can call an officer by his rank if he outranks you without offense—this happens all the time. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:38, 30 January 2006 (EST)

::In the following scene Socinus addresses Hadrian as Sir through-out - [[User:Grible|Grible]] 03:02, 31 January 2006 (EST)

:::Raw recruits (fresh out of boot) have the tendency to "sir" anything that moves. I guess it is better to throw in an extra "sir" than to miss one. The worst you'll usually get by "sir"ing an NCO is a gruff "Don't sir me, I work for a living." --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:47, 31 January 2006 (EST)

::::I agree with you, however since we arn't assuming this to function like our world (nods to Ricimer) i thought i'd mention it. It just seems to me to support my contention that Tyrol outranks Hadrian since he never Sir's her and Specialist Socinus, not a raw recruit?, does. However Ricimer is quite right and he could be panicing and Siring every thing that moves I suppose. - [[User:Grible|Grible]] 09:23, 31 January 2006 (EST)

:We should in no way "assume" that their military functions like ours, that they have equivalent rank insignia between different branches of the military: we shouldn't ''assumme'' that they function like the US military in that respect. Further, the ENTIRE scene is really tainted: Hadrian is suspecious of him and prying, and Tyrol (regardless of whether he is addressing a superior officer, or whether he is not) is just really nervous that they'll find out about Boomer and his relationship, so his smokescreen is to be really agitated and throw questions back at Hadrian, or more importantly, trying to shift ''blame'' on Hadrian by saying that securing the hatch was ''her'' job. This isn't a "normal" scene, and we should not base anything on it as a result.
:But basically, '''you have been "assuming" that calling her by her rank, "Sergeant" is somehow and insult, but we have seen nothing on screen to provide evidence for that'''. How do we know that they're ''that much'' like our own military, that such a thing would also be copied. Far too many assumptions. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:42, 30 January 2006 (EST)

:If anyone cares about my opinion: I think that, without any other evidence, we should assume the insignias represent equal ranks, as they do in practically all terrestrial militaries, and that therefore it would be prudent, without any other evidence, to assume that Hadrian is a Staff Sergeant. I don't see this as presenting a problem with regards to the events in Litmus or anything else. But: does anyone have any caps of insignias of any other Marines? Kelso or Venner, for example? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 19:18, 30 January 2006 (EST)

:: I concur. It makes complete sense to assume that the rank insigniae are the same across services. Otherwise, why have the top Sergeant rank look exactly like the insignia for a lesser Naval rank? That's just confusing. If they weren't meant to show equivalencies, I'd expect the insigniae to look quite different. However, unless we're ''certain'' that this is the correct insignia for Hadrian, I'm not sure we should go on it. It's very, very easy to mess up rank pips and all that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:32, 30 January 2006 (EST)

: I agree we shouldn't be assuming things based on the US militeary (a 9 grade enlisted/NCO structure in the first place...) I dragged the Naval coller pin thing into this to make the point Redwall made for me above. I take onboard that this is not a normal scene in the "court". However his switch in tone and phrasing on the hanger deck before does still suggest to me he is stressing her rank because he has that over her. The shifting the blame point is true and isn't affected, if anything by stressing she is lesser in rank he's trying to belittle/intimidate her which to me does tie in with his shift of blame. (It's to Hadrian's credit she doesn't bend!) - [[User:Grible|Grible]] 09:23, 31 January 2006 (EST)

Per below, Hadrian is a Staff Sergeant at best. A Gunnery Sergeant is addressed as "Gunny", per [[Sacrifice]]. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:16, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== "Gunny" ==

In Sacrifices, Starbuck addresses a Marine leader as "Gunny". This is an "affectionate" term for a Marine Gunnery Sergeant, who's equivalent in rank to a Navy Chief Petty Officer. The Gunny probably outranks Hadrian--maybe he's from the Pegasus. In any case, this is pretty definite proof that the rank of Gunnery Sergeant exists in the Colonial Marines. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:15, 10 February 2006 (EST)

:The term "Gunny" may be a familiar term here in NATO circles, but BSG isn't NATO, nor is it supposed to be an exact emulation of real-life situations, structures, and terminology. Thrace's use of the term "Gunny" was actually directed towards a character who is listed in the credits as a ''Lieutenant''. How do you explain that? Who's at fault? Has it ever crossed your mind that BSG ''might not be exactly'' like familiar ol' Earth here, and that the term "Gunny" might be given to ''all'' Marines by pilots as a term-of-endearment, such as "Leatherneck" or "Grunt"? What she said isn't pretty definite proof, or any kind of proof. This series is ''still being written'', so we really shouldn't jump to "definite" conclusions yet. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 01:41, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Here's an interesting picture from Home part I (crap I mislabled the picture!). The non-com walking is wearing the khakis we have associated with the Marines but his insignia appears to be identical to Tyrol's CPO insignia with the exception of a yellow enamel background unlike the traditional green. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:31, 22 February 2006 (EST)
[[Image:Marinerank klgpII.JPG|thumb|Possible Marine senior non-com ([[Home, Part I]])]]

==Second Chart==
As we are now dealing with two branches and therefore two equivelents, might two charts be appropriate?? [[User:Kkimball|Kkimball]] 23:30, 10 February 2006 (EST)
:Yes, I think so. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:33, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== Back to Officer Ranks... ==

A couple of things:

When Cain tries to justify her jurisdiction in sentencing Tyrol and Helo to deal, she says that she's a flag officer in a time of war. Does anybody else read into that statement that Adama as a Commander was NOT a flag officer (at that time)?

It's not nonsense that then-Commander Adama would be "simply" the equivalent of a Naval Captain and assume command over the Colonial Fleet. As the highest ranking officer known, do you think it really makes sense to quibble over that?

Reminds me of Star Trek: First Contact when Picard took charge of the fleet attacking the Borg Cube...there was assumed to be no higher officer left there, so who's going to argue in a time of crisis against him putting a head back on the chicken-with-its-head-chopped-off? Seems the same to me...

Regarding the rank of Major: I think it's safe to say that there is no longer a confusion as to whether Major's senior to Captain, since Lee considered it a promotion, so I'm changing that statement appropriately. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 01:16, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Even if there were still flag officers outranking Adama, he was in probably the best position to assume fleet command, and he knew it: his battlestar was immune to the cylon backdoors, had not sustained heavy damage, and, most importantly, his service in the first cylon war probably qualified him uniquely - very few men of Adama and Tigh's vintage were probably left in the fleet. Cain had certainly never seen actual combat with the Cylons, so Adama could reasonably assume that he'd have the confidence of other officers, given the dire circumstances. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:30, 24 February 2006 (EST)

::That's what I'm saying, but I'm taking it a step further and saying that Adama wasn't a Flag Officer as a Commander and I'm not sure that there's a reason to assume so. I guess we can't really take the voice inflection in Admiral Cain's voice as proof that she considered herself the only Flag officer in the fleet though...after all, the actress isn't necessarily briefed on such things. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 03:13, 24 February 2006 (EST)

== Piping ==
Has anybody else noticed a difference in the piping on the uniforms of the different grades of officers? It seems like Commanders have red trim on their jackets and lower grades have shades of blue. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 03:13, 24 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Military Ranks (RDM)/Archive3

2006-02-24T08:13:23Z

Rocky8311: /* Back to Officer Ranks... */

Eastern Alliance destroyer

2006-02-24T06:55:52Z

Rocky8311:

[[Image:ead.jpg|thumb|External view of an Eastern Alliance destroyer.]]

The '''Eastern Alliance destroyer''' is a spacecraft used by the [[Eastern Alliance]] of [[Terra]]. An Eastern Alliance destroyer tracks the ''[[Lunar Avion]]'' from [[Lunar Seven]] to [[Paradeen]] where it eventurally encounters the [[Galactica (TOS)|''Galactica'']]. [[Leiter|Commandant Leiter]] commands the destroyer that is captured by the [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)|Colonials]]. [[Lanceman]] and [[Donner]] are crewmen aboard the destroyer ([[Greetings from Earth (TOS)|Greetings from Earth]]). The destroyer manages to escape from ''Galactica'', and returns to Terra with the Colonials on its trail ([[Baltar's Escape (TOS)|Baltar's Escape]]).

The Eastern Alliance destroyer was repeatedly noted to be far smaller that a battlestar and non-threatening as a contender. In fact, a captured destroyer was briefly impounded aboard ''Galactica'' and appeared to be comparable in size to a Colonial shuttle.

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: TOS]]

Talk:Military Ranks (RDM)/Archive3

2006-02-24T06:16:52Z

Rocky8311: about officer ranks...

Isn't Cally referred to as a Specialist at some point? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 21:32, 29 August 2005 (EDT)

Definitely. There's a time when the Chief tells the "Specialist" to go do something. -QuintusCinna.

Well, that just fracks up the whole thing then. Not only do we have Cally in the wrong place and we're missing a rank, but it's an Army/Air Force rank for a Fleet member. :( (On the plus side, Specialists are E-4s though IIRC.) --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 21:38, 29 August 2005 (EDT)

Let's be open with the Chief's use of "specialist". It might have been relative to her MOS, though I doubt it. Such as tech specialist, deck specialist, things of that sort. In the military we often called them specialists too, though I do believe, just like you, that the chief was meaning it in the context of rank. --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]]

==Abbreviations==
Here is the list of abbreviations I wrote for the ranks here. The enlisted ranks for Marines are still a little rough though, the "all caps" ranks are in the US Army style, others use lower case, eg Master Sergeant: MSG, MSgt.

Officer 
O-11 Fleet Admiral No abbrev., FAdm could work 
O-10 Admiral Adm 
O-9 Vice Admiral VAdm 
O-8 Rear Admiral RAdm 
O-7 Commander Cdr 
O-6 Colonel Col 
O-5 Major Maj 
O-4 Captain Capt 
O-3 Lieutenant Lt 
O-2 Lieutenant Junior Grade LtJG 
O-1 Ensign Ens 

Enlisted 
E-9 Master Chief Petty Officer MCPO 
E-8 Senior Chief Petty Officer SCPO 
E-7 Chief Petty Officer CPO 
E-6 Petty Officer 1st Class PO1 
E-5 Petty Officer 2nd Class PO2 
E-4 Petty Officer 3rd Class PO3 
E-3 Crewman CN (based on US Navy Seaman SN) 
E-2 Crewman Apprentice CA ("") 
E-1 Crewman Recruit CR ("") 

Marine 
E-9 Sergeant Major SGM 
E-8 Senior Master Sergeant/Master Sergeant SMSgt/MSG 
E-7 Master Sergeant/Sergeant 1st Class MSG/SFC 
E-6 Staff Sergeant SSG 
E-5 Sergeant SGT 
E-4 Corporal CPL 
E-3 Private 1st Class PFC 
E-2 Private 2nd Class PV2 
E-1 Private Recruit PVR 
--[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:33, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

: I went ahead and formatted your post, Talos, so that it was easier to read. I don't think I broke anything, did I? Anyway, I think the all-caps ranks look loud. I know that's kind of an artifact of the internet, but still... I'd rather just cap the first letter of a word from an abbreviation. Thus "PFC" is fine because each of those are the first letter of a word. On the other hand, I'd rather "Sgt." than "SGT". Also, "Cpt." and "Cmdr." are more intuitive to me, but I don't know if I made those up or ''where'' they came from. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:03, 15 September 2005 (EDT)
::Thanks for the formatting, that's how it was whem I typed it in notepad. I see how that works now. Like I said, the reason they are all caps is that it is based on the Army enlisted structure. I didn't go with the Marine Corps structure because it's missing the two ranks unique to the MC, Lance Corporal and Gunnery Sergeant. Here is a link about the US Military ranks: [http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/insignias/officers.html]. There is a link on top to the enlisted ranks. What is interesting is the way the US Navy O-6 rank's head is turned compared to the others. Also, Capt and Cdr are how the USN abbreviates Captain and Commander. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:00, 15 September 2005 (EDT)
:::I wanted to add something else, the CAPS are only used in forms, charts, etc. When written with the name it is normal case, so Hadrian,... Rank: SGT, but ...Sgt. Hadrian. I can't believe I forgot this. I must be slipping. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:42, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

== Adama ≠ Fleet Admrial ==

: ''Following was moved from [[User talk:Joe.Beaudoin]] by [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] at 21:45, 17 October 2005 (EDT).''

Noticed something while browsing and thought I might mention it...

On the page for Military Ranks (RDM), the supposition is that the rank of Commander (i.e. Cdr. Adama) is equivalent to a US Navy Rear Admiral. In my extensive reading, I have found that there are a few reasons why Commander is not equal to a Rear Admiral or Commodore.

Battlestar Groups are roughly analogous to Carrier Battle Groups, the current major organizational format for the US Navy. CBGs are commanded as an entire body by a Rear Admiral Lower Half, while the carrier itself is commanded by a Captain (O-6). It is possible that, while the vessel was in lay-up at the Scorpion Ship Yards, the Pegasus was part of a functioning BSG. This would explain why Adm. Nelena Cain is in command of the Pegasus. Meanwhile, the Galactica was quite alone at the beginning of the mini-series, and on the verge of decommissioning and conversion. Adama's rank could be considered analogous to an O-6 since the Rear Admiral LH in charge of BSG-75 would have moved to another BSG while Commander (Captain) Adama took the Galactica into retirement. In a footnote in an earlier draft of the page, it was stated that since Adama had the authority to assume command of the fleet (Miniseries), he would have to carry flag rank. This was likely a plot device, and it was never necessary to justify it, since no other Colonial Fleet vessel survived (excepting Pegasus, which was most likely already gone). In the modern US Navy, it would be highly improbable for the Admiral in charge of a CBG to assume command of the entire Navy.

S. Price

:I expect this would be more useful on [[Talk:Military Ranks (RDM)]] than on Joe's talk page. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:24, 17 October 2005 (EDT)

==How Many Admirals==

Although Nagala and Cain are both referred to as simply "admiral", I don't think that's presents strong evidence for them all being of the same rank, distinguished only by seniority. In the real world, both a one-star and four-star Admiral are referred to as simply "Admiral", unless a precise distinction must be made - not the case in the heat of combat, when Nagala's identity and rank would have been quite well known anyway. Furthermore, RDM's comment that Cain was only one promotion up from Commander strongly indicates that there were additional ranks above her.

The methodology of this page to date has been to identify BSG universe ranks with their (rough) NATO-equivalents. This seems sensible to me, since no precise overview of the BSG rank system has been given yet, and it makes sense to evaluate new information with regard to an existing military structure with which the show's creators are familiar. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:39, 7 December 2005 (EST)

::I agree. I can't imagine a "promotion date" hierarchy working very well for establishing seniority between fleet commanders. I don't know how common inter-fleet operations would be, but there would be a lot more friction if equal ranked admirals were issuing orders to each other. While a twelve-admiral "quorum of twelve" would be a very democratic and fair sounding concept, military thinking tends to prefer hierarchy to committee, especially in cases where decision need to be made quickly. I wonder if Cain's insignia might provide any insight into the ranks (and whether there might be higher ones). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:28, 7 December 2005 (EST)

We never see Cain referred to as a "rear admiral" either. Looking at the insignia on the page, there's only one Admiral insignia anyway—there is absolutely no evidence anywhere that rear admirals and vice admirals even exist in Battlestar Galactica. Moore himself only mentions one grade of "admiral" in his blog entry. So essentially what's happening is that people are making things up and pretending it's in the canon just to make Colonial Fleet correspond perfectly with the US Navy.

In response to "I can't imagine a "promotion date" hierarchy working very well for establishing seniority between fleet commanders.", the fact is, the real military uses that hierarchy consciously. For instance, the seven US generals and admirals promoted to five star rank in 1944 were deliberately promoted on consecutive days—Leahy in the 15th, Marshall on the 16th, King on the 17th, MacArthur on the 18th, Nimitz on the 19th, Eisenhower on the 20th, and Arnold on the 21st of December—to allow for such a hierarchy.

More importantly, Colonial Fleet was probably a small and shrinking military force anyway, largely because they had nothing to do—the colonies were united and there was no foreign threat for over 40 years. Furthermore, there can't have possibly been that many ships in the fleet anyway, if Galactica and Pegasus were the only survivors. Four grades of admiral exist are necessary when you're the United States Navy and you have 300 ships. We have no evidence Colonial Fleet was that large. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:17, 7 December 2005 (EST)

:1.) I can't speak for the source on those insignia myself - did [[User:Winterfell]] every say where he found them?

:2.) We know there were at least 120 battlestars, next to the US Navy's 12 aircraft carriers, so I have difficulty with that argument.
::At which point? The Cylon war was 40 years ago. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:56, 7 December 2005 (EST)
:::At the time of the Cylon Attack. When Adama tells Starbuck that 30 battlestars have been destroyed, she replies in shock that "that's a quarter of the fleet!". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:15, 7 December 2005 (EST)
::::OK. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:36, 7 December 2005 (EST)

:3.) I don't think we're pretending anything is in Canon here, and if it looks that way to you, I don't mind making a clearer distinction. The fact is simply that we don't know much about the Colonial Navy, and that comparing the ranks observed on the show to the ranks of a well-documented force is an instructive exercise. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:28, 7 December 2005 (EST)

::Your clarifications look good to me, Philwelch. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:34, 7 December 2005 (EST)
I don't know if it means anything but in Pegasus, the DRADIS screen after they identify the Pegasus has two stars next to the Peggie's symbol. Maybe she's a two-star admiral. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:17, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:Here's what I mean. Note the stars (they are more blob-like here but are stars) next to the Pegasus on the right and how the identically targeted Galactica has none. Also, note that the Pegasus can ID the Gal's Vipers but the Galactica doesn't show the four Pegasus Viper's callsigns. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:54, 28 December 2005 (EST)
[[Image:GalPegDradis.JPG|thumb|DRADIS displays, Galactica and Pegasus ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]])]]
::Veering off topic, but Kat is apparently flying "Viper 24" in that scene. Have we seen two-digit numbers used for Vipers elsewhere? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:08, 28 December 2005 (EST)
:::Not that I know of. I was wondering about this earlier, maybe the two digit number is shorthand eg. her Viper is 5624NC or something. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:34, 28 December 2005 (EST)

:: I'm assuming this is a moot point here now, but I'll chime in anyway. Of the 120 or so Battlestars that were commissioned at the time of the attacks on the colonies, I'd say we're missing some information to make an educated guess as to who commands what. Starbuck mentioned 'fleet', so I'm working under the assumption that the word 'Battlestar' is used to describe a military ship in general, rather than a specific type of ship (Sort of like the USS in US Navy ships) . That said, I'm guessing there are also more than two classes of Battlestar (Mercury class and whatever class Galactica belongs to can't be the only two),and they're somehow organized into a type of numbered fleet command structure. An Admiral would command the numbered fleet, Commanders would command the smaller support craft and so on down the line. Above the numbered fleets is someone like Admiral Nagala from the mini, who commands the ENTIRE fleet and directly supervises the numbered fleet admirals. In Galactica's case, she was being prepared for decommissioning anyway, so she didn't fall under a numbered fleet, instead reporting directly to Fleet Headquarters on Picon in the mini. I know it's a bit long winded, but hopefully that sort of explains why there aren't 120 or so admirals in the fleet running around giving orders...:) [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 15:07, 18 January 2006 (EST)

::: I think you're misunderstanding things. A battlestar ''is'' a type of ship. It's like saying destroyer, or aircraft carrier, though, so there can be different classes of battlestar. The name comes from what role it's intended to play in combat (a combination, actually, but a carrier being one of those roles). I believe our understanding is that a Battlestar Group (BSG) was a battlestar and its accompanying support fleet, very similar to the US Navy's Carrier Groups. So an admiral would probably actually be in charge of a few BSGs (with a Commander like Adama being in charge of his BSG alone) and you might have an admiral above that controling a group of lower admirals (think CINCLANT or CINCPAC) and you might not... Then you've got Nagala at the top telling ''everyone'' what to do. Anyway... a battlestar is not just any combat ship, a BSG is not a group of battlestars (but a group of ships with a battlestar in lead), and, no, all my ranting doesn't get us any closer or farther from the question of how many Admirals the COlonial Fleet had before the Attack. --[[User:Day|Day]] 15:44, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:::: I think you and I just both said the same thing! And I wholeheartedly agree, we're no closer to a solution...[[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 15:51, 18 January 2006 (EST)

==Insignia==
I'd advocate getting rid of the conjectural insignia. It would be nice if we could find actual screen captures to use instead of Winterfell's (admittedly nice looking) drawings, for credibility's sake. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:22, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:The conjectural ones, yes. The ones that seem to correspond with screen captures we do have, I think it's safe to keep. Is there anyone here with HD captures of the episodes? If so that would help greatly. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:53, 11 December 2005 (EST)

::You know what I think? We should have both. I really appriciate the clarity of the illustrations. Let us have both, side-by-side, so that readers may verify the accuracy, but also clearly see what the insigniae are. --[[User:Day|Day]] 21:12, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:::Speaking of this, Major on down in the officers insignia are very hard to see. Can we get versions with more contrast or better colors or something?--[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 22:25, 11 December 2005 (EST)

::::After this last episode, we finally got a good look at Major, and the one on here is close, but is off a little. Same can be said about the one for Captain too. On that one, the middle peak /\ needs to be closer to the top of the insignia. On Major, their is equal (more than shown) space between all of the peaks /\.--[[User:Bpense|AdmPense]] 21:25, 23 February 2006 (CST)

==Tyrol & Hadrian==
Small point - Chief Tyrol and Sergeant Hadrian are assigned equivalent ranks in the table. During his arrest/detention and again during interview in Litmus the Chief puts great stress on calling Hadrian by her rank over and over, this always inplied to me that he considered himself above her in rank. Also if you watch it through on slow-mo zoomed in... (ok now i'm getting sad)... She has a "green diamond with a single stripe" and he has a "green diamond with single stripe and an arrowhead on each side" ie the ranks currently in the table as CPO for Tyrol and PO (of some grade) for Hadrian. - I didn't want to edit the main page as this is my first ever wiki experience. - Grible

:Thanks for your note, and your caution. Does anyone have screen captures of Tyrol & Hadrian's rank insignia? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:26, 29 January 2006 (EST)

::I disagree: listen and you'll see that he's saying like "It was ''the Sergeant'' that was responsible for that", etc. And because he was on trial, it's not like he'd be presumptuous enough to call her by name, but at the same time, he wanted to be condescending and shift the blame to her. As they've already stated on screen, Tyrol is the highest Non-Com Colonial Fleet officer, and Sergeant Hadrian is the highest-ranking Colonial Marine Non-Com; they've both got the highest Non-Com rank. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:32, 29 January 2006 (EST)

I've got screen captures to support my point now, I must needs be go to work however, how do i get the captures to you?
Also, Just because Hadrian is the ranking Marine aboard Galactica doesn't mean she has to hold the highest rank, Galactica is short of Marines from the start. I would suggest that a ship on it's way to decommission only has the bare minimum of marines under an appropriatly ranked person (Hadrian) to do marine stuff (guard things etc) onboard. No one expects them to need Marines for boarding/landing parties or to defend the ship. Furthermore, Hadrian is the Master-at-Arms, she's the ships policeman. If Galactica had a full unit of marines chances are there would be commissioned marine officers and a complete command structure. I suggest she is a relativly low ranked NCO with a handful of marines to act as a security force aboard a ship about to leave the service, then look what happened... - Grible

--No. "Sergeant" is the highest NCO rank, anything higher would be a commissioned officer. That's the same position Tyrol is in.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 10:54, 30 January 2006 (EST)

--yes and no, "Sergeant" used in conversation could mean any level of Sergeant. She could be anything from E4-E9 and still be legitimatly called Sergeant. Since I'm only (and how anal do i feel) suggesting she be bumped down to the PO grade she would still be a Sergeant just a lower ranked one.
Also... do Marines exist at all? Or is "Marine" a job title like "Machine Operator" or "Comms Tech"?
the ranks being assigned Marine sounding names but there being no "Marine Corp" as such? Are we blinded by the need to make this fit the US system?
However the point is I've got Screen captures from Litmus that show her coller insig as being what this page has defined as PO (1st or 2nd) she's in the wrong place whatever the reasoning behind Marines.(my understanding of wiki isn't up to linking to the image but it's in the list called TyrolHadrianinsig.jpg) - Grible
:Here you go with the pic. It's not a matter of shoehorning the US Marine rank system. Marines have a seperate rank system, we have two examples PFC Kelso and Sergeant Hadrian. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:19, 30 January 2006 (EST) [[Image:TyrolHadrianInsig.jpg|thumb|right|Tyrol/Hadrian Rank Comparison]]
::Oh, and in Final Cut, during Kelso's interview, the text reads PFC Scott Kelso, CMCR which would be the Colonial Marine Corps Reserve. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:22, 30 January 2006 (EST)
::: [[Scott Kelso]] is displayed pretty clearly as being PFC (see his character pic). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:24, 30 January 2006 (EST)
:::: I conceed on the existance of Marines! - Grible
:::::Thanks SV, I just got to that scene and was about to take a screenshot. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:31, 30 January 2006 (EST)

::::::You're arguing about changing the rank equivalence of characters, and you didn't even know that the [[Colonial Marine Corps]] existed? Please read this link, it has more info than I can list here. Officially, the [[Colonial Fleet]] ranks are as stated above Admiral, Commander...Lieutenant, Chief Petty Officer, etc. etc. Also officially, RDM has stated that the Marines don't use this rank structure, but an entirely different one. '''Comparing collar rank insignia is meaningless'''. Because they use an entirely separate rank structure, they almost certainly have different rank insignia. We know that "Sergeant" is the highest Marine non-com rank, Commander Adama stated in that episode that Sergeant Hadrian, their Master-At-Arms, was the highest ranking Marine on the ship, and we've seen other Marines who were "Sergeant"'s so I think she's the highest rank of "Sergeant". The reason Tyrol acts like she outranks him is because she's the ''de facto'' MP (military police) leader aboard ''Galactica'', and has been given greater responsibilities as a result. But they have equivalent rank.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:38, 30 January 2006 (EST)

::::::Maybe Sgt. Hadrian is the highest-ranking Marine on the ship because they just didn't have any Staff Sgts/Gunnery Sgts/First Sgts/Sgt Majors. If Galactica is the equivalent of an aircraft carrier they would just have a small detachment of marines—most of the marines could be aboard "amphibious ships" instead. Incidentally, the Marines could be a part of the Fleet just as, say, the Royal Marines are part of the Royal Navy, or the US Marines used to be a part of the US Navy until 1947. Was there a Colonial Army? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:30, 30 January 2006 (EST)

I was dipping a toe about the colonial marines, my point was really that, did they have to be a seperate service? I've been slapped down, leave it be :)

IMHO Tyrol acts like he out ranks her (which is borne out by the coller pins). Else he should call her Sir/Ma'am not repeatedly use her rank and be borderline insulting to her. As above just because she is the highest ranking marine on the ship doesn't make her the highest rank avalible.
She is the Master-at-Arms even if she is equal in rank to the other sergeants, which I'm not arguing for (there are plenty of sergeant grades to go around), she would still be in charge.
On a more fundamental point i would also suggest comparing collar rank insignia is the only meaningful way of establishing relative rank. There really wouldn't be much point in having it otherwise. For instance all of the branches of the US army forces use a unified collar ranking system to streamline relative ranks, isn't that the point? The coller pins used are the old army ones but everyone uses them. It makes no sense for a Navel LtCmdr to wear Oak leaves (not very naval) but it draws the link to Army/Air/Marine Majors, this is the point no? - [[User:Grible|Grible]] 17:37, 30 January 2006 (EST) (look at me learning wiki!)

:At least in the US, enlisted are never called "sir", only commissioned officers. Notice how everyone calls Tyrol "Chief". Even in terms of officers, you can call an officer by his rank if he outranks you without offense—this happens all the time. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:38, 30 January 2006 (EST)

::In the following scene Socinus addresses Hadrian as Sir through-out - [[User:Grible|Grible]] 03:02, 31 January 2006 (EST)

:::Raw recruits (fresh out of boot) have the tendency to "sir" anything that moves. I guess it is better to throw in an extra "sir" than to miss one. The worst you'll usually get by "sir"ing an NCO is a gruff "Don't sir me, I work for a living." --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:47, 31 January 2006 (EST)

::::I agree with you, however since we arn't assuming this to function like our world (nods to Ricimer) i thought i'd mention it. It just seems to me to support my contention that Tyrol outranks Hadrian since he never Sir's her and Specialist Socinus, not a raw recruit?, does. However Ricimer is quite right and he could be panicing and Siring every thing that moves I suppose. - [[User:Grible|Grible]] 09:23, 31 January 2006 (EST)

:We should in no way "assume" that their military functions like ours, that they have equivalent rank insignia between different branches of the military: we shouldn't ''assumme'' that they function like the US military in that respect. Further, the ENTIRE scene is really tainted: Hadrian is suspecious of him and prying, and Tyrol (regardless of whether he is addressing a superior officer, or whether he is not) is just really nervous that they'll find out about Boomer and his relationship, so his smokescreen is to be really agitated and throw questions back at Hadrian, or more importantly, trying to shift ''blame'' on Hadrian by saying that securing the hatch was ''her'' job. This isn't a "normal" scene, and we should not base anything on it as a result.
:But basically, '''you have been "assuming" that calling her by her rank, "Sergeant" is somehow and insult, but we have seen nothing on screen to provide evidence for that'''. How do we know that they're ''that much'' like our own military, that such a thing would also be copied. Far too many assumptions. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:42, 30 January 2006 (EST)

:If anyone cares about my opinion: I think that, without any other evidence, we should assume the insignias represent equal ranks, as they do in practically all terrestrial militaries, and that therefore it would be prudent, without any other evidence, to assume that Hadrian is a Staff Sergeant. I don't see this as presenting a problem with regards to the events in Litmus or anything else. But: does anyone have any caps of insignias of any other Marines? Kelso or Venner, for example? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 19:18, 30 January 2006 (EST)

:: I concur. It makes complete sense to assume that the rank insigniae are the same across services. Otherwise, why have the top Sergeant rank look exactly like the insignia for a lesser Naval rank? That's just confusing. If they weren't meant to show equivalencies, I'd expect the insigniae to look quite different. However, unless we're ''certain'' that this is the correct insignia for Hadrian, I'm not sure we should go on it. It's very, very easy to mess up rank pips and all that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:32, 30 January 2006 (EST)

: I agree we shouldn't be assuming things based on the US militeary (a 9 grade enlisted/NCO structure in the first place...) I dragged the Naval coller pin thing into this to make the point Redwall made for me above. I take onboard that this is not a normal scene in the "court". However his switch in tone and phrasing on the hanger deck before does still suggest to me he is stressing her rank because he has that over her. The shifting the blame point is true and isn't affected, if anything by stressing she is lesser in rank he's trying to belittle/intimidate her which to me does tie in with his shift of blame. (It's to Hadrian's credit she doesn't bend!) - [[User:Grible|Grible]] 09:23, 31 January 2006 (EST)

Per below, Hadrian is a Staff Sergeant at best. A Gunnery Sergeant is addressed as "Gunny", per [[Sacrifice]]. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:16, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== "Gunny" ==

In Sacrifices, Starbuck addresses a Marine leader as "Gunny". This is an "affectionate" term for a Marine Gunnery Sergeant, who's equivalent in rank to a Navy Chief Petty Officer. The Gunny probably outranks Hadrian--maybe he's from the Pegasus. In any case, this is pretty definite proof that the rank of Gunnery Sergeant exists in the Colonial Marines. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:15, 10 February 2006 (EST)
:Here's an interesting picture from Home part I (crap I mislabled the picture!). The non-com walking is wearing the khakis we have associated with the Marines but his insignia appears to be identical to Tyrol's CPO insignia with the exception of a yellow enamel background unlike the traditional green. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:31, 22 February 2006 (EST)
[[Image:Marinerank klgpII.JPG|thumb|Possible Marine senior non-com ([[Home, Part I]])]]

==Second Chart==
As we are now dealing with two branches and therefore two equivelents, might two charts be appropriate?? [[User:Kkimball|Kkimball]] 23:30, 10 February 2006 (EST)
:Yes, I think so. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:33, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== Back to Officer Ranks... ==

A couple of things:

When Cain tries to justify her jurisdiction in sentencing Tyrol and Helo to deal, she says that she's a flag officer in a time of war. Does anybody else read into that statement that Adama as a Commander was NOT a flag officer (at that time)?

It's not nonsense that then-Commander Adama would be "simply" the equivalent of a Naval Captain and assume command over the Colonial Fleet. As the highest ranking officer known, do you think it really makes sense to quibble over that?

Reminds me of Star Trek: First Contact when Picard took charge of the fleet attacking the Borg Cube...there was assumed to be no higher officer left there, so who's going to argue in a time of crisis against him putting a head back on the chicken-with-its-head-chopped-off? Seems the same to me...

Regarding the rank of Major: I think it's safe to say that there is no longer a confusion as to whether Major's senior to Captain, since Lee considered it a promotion, so I'm changing that statement appropriately. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 01:16, 24 February 2006 (EST)

Military Ranks (RDM)

2006-02-24T06:11:11Z

Rocky8311: /* Footnotes */

The rank structure for the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined series]] is derived from the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|original series]] [[Military Ranks (TOS)|ranks]] as mentioned in [[Ronald D. Moore]]'s blog (quoted in full below).

==Rank equivalencies==

These ranks have been speculatively expanded into the following table in order to provide a rough rank equivalency with the United States Navy. Many aspects of the following table, including the addition of vice and rear admiral ranks, are speculative. Rank equivalencies in real life are usually established only when two organizations with differing rank structures have to work together and establish who outranks whom—as this has yet to happen between [[Colonial Fleet]] and the United States military, the following table exists mainly to improve understanding of Colonial ranks for those familiar with the US military.

This table has been compiled using current [http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/comp/ FAS] rank comparison charts for US military ranks, and contrasting these ranks with the '''specific roles''' performed by individuals within the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|new series]].

{| width="90%" border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" align=center
|-align=left
|'''U.S. Rank Pay Grade'''
|'''BSG Military Rankings'''
|'''U.S. Navy Equivalent'''
|'''U.S. Army / Air Force / Marine Corps Equivalent'''
|'''BSG Examples'''
|-
|colspan=3 align=left style="font-size:12pt;"|'''FLAG OFFICERS'''
|-
|[O-11]
|Fleet Admiral
|Fleet Admiral
|General of the Army/Air Force (5 Star)
|[[Nagala]] {{ref|fleet_admiral}}
|-
|[O-10]
|Admiral
|Admiral
|General (4 Star)
|[[Nagala]] {{ref_label|fleet_admiral|1|a}}
|-
|[O-9]
|Vice Admiral
|Vice Admiral
|Lieutenant General (3 Star)
|-
|[O-8]
|Rear Admiral
|Rear Admiral(Upper Half)
|Major General (2 Star)
|[[Helena Cain]] {{ref|admiral}}
|-
|[O-7]
|Commander
|Rear Admiral(Lower Half) (formerly Commodore)
|Brigadier General (1 Star)
|[[William Adama]] {{ref|commander}}
|-
|colspan=3 align=left style="font-size:12pt;"|'''COMMISSIONED OFFICERS'''
|-
|[O-6]
|Colonel
|Captain
|Colonel
|[[Saul Tigh]] {{ref|colonel}}
|-
|[O-5]
|Major
|Commander
|Lieutenant Colonel
|[[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]] {{ref|major}}, William Adama
|-
|[O-4]
|Captain
|Lieutenant Commander
|Major
|[[Lee Adama]], [[Aaron Kelly]]
|-
|[O-3]
|Lieutenant
|Lieutenant
|Captain
|[[Felix Gaeta]], [[Kara Thrace]]
|-
|[O-2]
|Lieutenant Junior Grade
|Lieutenant Junior Grade
|First Lieutenant
|[[Karl Agathon]]
|-
|[O-1]
|Ensign
|Ensign
|Second Lieutenant
|[[Davis]]
|-
|colspan=3 align=left style="font-size:12pt;"|'''NON-COMMISSIONED OFFICERS'''
|-
|[E-9]
|Master Chief Petty Officer (Fleet); Sergeant Major (Marines)
|Master Chief Petty Officer
|Sergeant Major (A, MC) / Chief Master Sergeant (AF) / Master Gunnery Sergeant (MC)
|
|-
|[E-8]
|Senior Chief Petty Officer (Fleet); First Sergeant (Marines)
|Senior Chief Petty Officer
|Master Sergeant (A, MC) / Senior Master Sergeant (AF) / First Sergeant (MC)
|
|-
|[E-7]
|Chief Petty Officer (Fleet); Gunnery Sergeant (Marines)
|Chief Petty Officer
|Sergeant (1st Class) (A) / Master Sergeant (AF) / Gunnery Sergeant (MC)
|[[Galen Tyrol]]
|-
|[E-6]
|Petty Officer 1st Class (Fleet); Staff Sergeant (Marines)
|Petty Officer 1st Class
|Staff Sergeant (A, MC) / Technical Sergeant (AF)
|[[Hadrian|Sergeant Hadrian]] {{ref|noncom}}
|-
|[E-5]
|Petty Officer 2nd Class (Fleet); Sergeant (Marines)
|Petty Officer 2nd Class
|Sergeant (A. MC) / Staff Sergeant (AF)
|[[Anastasia Dualla]]
|-
|[E-4]
|Petty Officer 3rd Class (Fleet); Corporal (Marines)
|Petty Officer 3rd Class
|Corporal (A, MC) / Senior Airman (AF)
|[[Venner]]
|-
|colspan=3 align=left style="font-size:12pt;"|'''ENLISTED PERSONAL'''
|-
|[E-3]
|Crewman Specialist(Fleet); Private 1st Class (Marines)
|Seaman
|Private 1st Class (A) / Airman 1st Class (AF) / Lance Corporal (MC)
|[[Cally]], [[Socinus]], [[Scott Kelso]] (assumed)
|-
|[E-2]
|Crewman Apprentice (Fleet); Private 2nd Class (Marines)
|Seaman Apprentice
|Private E2 (A) / Airman (AF) / Private First Class (MC)
|[[Prosna]] (assumed)
|-
|[E-1]
|Crewman Recruit (Fleet); Private Recruit (Marines)
|Seaman Recruit
|Private (A, MC) / Airman Basic (AF)
|-
|}

==Insignia==

{| width="90%" border="0" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1" align=center
|-align=left
|colspan=3 align=left style="font-size:12pt;"|'''OFFICERS'''
|-
|'''Admiral'''
|'''Commander'''
|'''Colonel'''
|'''Major'''
|-

|[[Image:Admiralpip_sm.jpg]]
|[[Image:Commanderpip_sm.jpg]]
|[[Image:Colonelpip_sm.jpg]]
|[[Image:Majorpip_sm.jpg]]
|-

|'''Captain'''
|'''Lieutenant'''
|'''Lieutenant JG'''*
|'''Ensign'''
|-

|[[Image:Captainpip_sm.jpg]]
|[[Image:lieutentantpip_sm.jpg]]
|[[Image:Ltjuniorpip_sm.jpg]]
|[[Image:Ensignpip_sm.jpg]]
|-
|-
|colspan=3 align=left style="font-size:12pt;"|'''Enlisted'''
|-

|'''Master Chief'''
|'''Chief Petty Officer'''
|'''Petty Officer'''
|-
|[[Image:masterpopip_sm.jpg]]
|[[Image:Chiefpopip_sm.JPG]]
|[[Image:pettyofficerpip_sm.jpg]]
|-
|'''Specialist'''
|'''Deckhand'''
|'''Recruit'''

|-
|[[Image:specialistpip_sm.jpg]]
|[[Image:deckhandpip_sm.jpg]]
|[[Image:recruitpip_sm.jpg]]

|}

These images of the ranks were drawn by Kevin Houghton and are based on Ronald Moore's list. The seen so far on the show are admiral, commander, colonel, captain, lieutenant, chief petty officer, petty officer, and specialist. The rest are conjecture based on a somewhat logical progression of the different ranks as seen, and how most military ranks progress.

Additional onscreen evidence—namely, the fact that Helo and Boomer wear the same insignia as Starbuck—indicates that there is perhaps no separate insignia for Lieutenant JG.

==Notes==
*In a [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/02/index.html#a000020 blog entry] on February 19, 2005 Ronald Moore gave a little insight into the rank structure of Battlestar Galactica:
<blockquote>"What is the rank structure? It doesn't seem consistant with the Navy."

"The rank structure is derived from the original series. I didn't want to change Commander Adama to Captain Adama or Colonel Tigh to Commander Tigh, so I elected to simply embrace the co-mingled nature of the original rank structure. For our internal purposes, we've decided that the ranks are indeed a mixture of naval and army nomenclature and are basically as follows:

Officers:
*Admiral
*Commander
*Colonel
*Major
*Captain
*Lieutenant
*Lieutenant (junior grade)
*Ensign

Enlisted:
*Master Chief Petty Officer
*Chief Petty Officer
*Petty Officer (1st, 2nd Class)
*Specialist
*Deck Hand
*Recruit

Just to complicate matters further, there are also Marines aboard Galactica which conform more closely to the traditional enlisted Marine ranks, with Sergeants, Sergeant-Majors, etc. Unresolved is the question of whether the Marine officers would also adhere to the mixed rank structure (which sounds odd) or if they are strictly army equivalents (which makes no sense given that the "Navy" ranks seem oblivious to there being any such distinction). Aren't you glad you asked?"</blockquote>

==Footnotes==
# {{note|fleet_admiral}}{{note_label|fleet_admiral|1|a}}'''Admiral''': It is assumed that [[Nagala|Nagala's]] given rank of Admiral ([[Mini-Series]]) equates to that of Admiral in the US Navy. However, when he took personal command of the Colonial Fleet following the [[Cylon Attack]] ([[Mini-Series]]), it is assumed he adopted the (war time) role of Fleet Admiral.
# {{note|admiral}}The Podcast Commentary for [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]] specifically says that Cain was one promotion above Commander (and a scene saying that was filmed, but cut for time, but planned to be reenstated on the DVD release), placing what type of Admiral rank she held.
# {{note|commander}}'''Commander:''' The rank of Commander is somwhat unclear, and may in fact cover several rank positions within the Colonial Fleet.
#*Given [[William Adama]]'s apparent seniority (his ability to assume full command of the fleet on hearing of the death of [[Nagala]]) it could be argued has been equated to that of Vice-Admiral - thus making him senior enough to take over the role of Fleet Admiral without objection from other Battlestar commanders.
#* However, given he is the '''commanding officer''' of a vessel, it could also be argued that Adama's rank equates to that of a U.S. Navy Captain.
#* Equally, Adama's rank could easily equate to that of Commodore on the grounds that he was potentially the commander of the [[75th Battlestar Group]] (assuming the ''[[Galactica]]'' was the flag ship for BSG 75). For the purposes of this rank table, therefore, it is assumed that "Commander" encompasses both the flag '''and''' commanding officer roles, giving Adama an equivalent rank of Rear Admiral (lower).
# {{note|colonel}}'''Colonel:''' The rank of Colonel is highly speculative. [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] is referred to as ''Galactica's'' [[Executive officer]] - which would nominally place him on a par with the US Navy rank of Commander. However, if Commander is equal to the USN rank of Rear Admiral (lower) then Colonel would equate with a USN Captain or a US Army Colonel.
# {{note|major}}'''Major:''' The rank of Major, such as (and in particular) the rank of [[Galactica|Galactica's]] [[CMO]] [[Cottle]], was given in "[[Bastille Day]]". There have been no indications as to whether or not Cottle outranked [[Lee Adama]] when Lee was a Captain, but when Lee is made a Major to serve on ''Pegasus'' ([[The Captain's Hand]]), he and Dualla both consider it a promotion for him. It remains unclear where Cottle fits in rank-wise as is a medical officer and not a line officer. William Adama, as a Major, reinstated [[Saul Tigh]] into the Colonial Fleet after the post-[[Cylon War]] furlough with the rank of Captain ([http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/201/deleted4.html Deleted Scene], portion of it in aired episode).
# {{note|noncom}}'''Non-Commissioned Ranks:''' The non-commissioned ranks have been assigned on the basis of individual roles performed. For excample: [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol's]] role equates to that of a Senior CPO (and borders that of a Master CPO in some respects); while the role of the [[Master-at-Arms]] is generally awarded to a Chief Petty Officer (or possibly a Senior Chief Petty Officer), hence aligning [[Hadrian|Sergeant Hadrian]] with the rank of CPO.

==See Also==
* [[Military Ranks (TOS)]] - Ranks from the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|original series]].

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Louis Hoshi

2006-02-20T20:20:03Z

Rocky8311:

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Hoshi.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony=
|birthname= Hoshi
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= [[CIC]], [[Battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''
|rank= Lieutenant
|actor=[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0238694/ Brad Dryborough]
|cylon=
}}

'''Hoshi''' is an officer onboard the [[battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' serving in CIC.

His duties aboard the ''Pegasus'' appear to mirror those of Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]] on ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[The Captain's Hand]], source: [http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/news/2005/10/firstdetailsonthecaptainsh.shtml GateWorld]).

== Notes ==

* Hoshi means "star" in Japanese.
* Hoshi was meant to appear in the episode "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]". However, any appearance from this character may have been removed because the episode had to be trimmed in order to fit the 42 minute run time required by Sci-Fi Channel. He eventually appears briefly in [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]].

[[Category: A to Z]] [[Category: Characters]] [[Category: RDM]]

Talk:Leland Adama/Archive 1

2006-02-18T23:43:19Z

Rocky8311: /* Promotion!? */

== Role ==

Should Lee's role be changed? I get the feeling he'll very shortly be CAG of Galactica again, but "currently" he's a Raptor pilot on Pegasus. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 20:14, October 19, 2005 (EDT)

:It should be changed when it changes. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:35, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

==Cylons==

Can anybody think of any circumstances where Lee has interacted with a Cylon prisoner? I don't think he has interacted with any Cylon agent after they were known to be one. If it's true, it strikes me as strange. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 17:54, October 20, 2005 (EDT)

:With Caprica-Sharon in [[Home, Part I]]. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:32, 20 October 2005 (EDT)

:Why? There have only been three Cylons identified within the fleet so far. One [[Litmus|blew himself up]], Starbuck was tasked with interrogating [[Flesh and Bone|another]], and Lee was in the brig during Gal-Boomer's last days. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:00, 20 October 2005 (EDT)

==Lee vs Adama==
The article was just modified to change several instances of Adama to Lee. Changing "Lee" to "Adama" done as an effort to be consistent with the principle of using the last name on "home pages" of characters. [[Talk:Ellen Tigh|See Discussion Here]] I don't want to immediately revert that change (as I know exactly how long it takes to make those changes, having done the inverse), but I was wondering if we're going to stick with the last name policy or not. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:47, 13 December 2005 (EST)

:I've reverted it. Our policy is clear and well-discussed. Mq59 can take it up on [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions]] if he has a new point to make. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:13, 13 December 2005 (EST)

== Source for "Floating in Water" Cylon Comparison? ==

Robojerk, I could not find a reference to the one you noted in a recent edit on Lee's comparison to being a Cylon. I'd like to keep that one in if you can tell the episode where you find that information. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:06, 17 January 2006 (EST)
:I think he's referring to the "swim in the stream" business. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 19:12, 17 January 2006 (EST)

==Demotion==

When exactly did it happen? Last time I checked, removing someone from flight status isn't an automatic demotion. Can someone point out exactly when he got busted? [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:35, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:My take on this: There is typically one Captain in any pilot group--that person's also the CAG. When Stinger was assigned CAG for all pilots, Adama might have been demoted by default, but I can't find any record of that happening directly (insignia checker take note). When Thrace was promoted to Captain, she became CAG as well. While pilots can be Captains when not assigned to a group (as Adama was before he arrived on ''Galactica''), being actively assigned to a battlestar may also change things. Another likely point was that Cain demoted him as punishment in addition to revoking his flight status until Thrace asked for him back. Educational guesses--maybe someone can read through the transcripts? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:35, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::Bill Adama refers to him as Lieutenant in Resurrection Ship, Part II. No idea when the actual demotion took place, or if [[Cole Taylor]] and [[George Birch]] remained captains after losing their CAG position. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:17, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::I made the edit about his Lieutenant status. I assumed that it was a result of Cain's punishment rather than being assigned to Pegasus, as Stinger still refers to him as Captain in the teaser of Res Ship II. Also, getting a demotion due to reassignment sounds really wierd (though possible, I guess). --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:35, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::::I think that Birch got a temporary promotion to captain, to be CAG, but that others like Taylor and Lee were captains through normal promotion through ranks (i.e. not dependent on being CAG or not) thus I think/hope that Apollo will be promoted right back to Captain by next week's episode, as I see NO reason why his father wouldn't just promote him back to Captain. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]][[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:06, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:::::At the risk of digressing, the kid did not exactly look... spaceworthy, at the end of last episode. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:39, 19 January 2006 (EST)

::::::I'll digress right with you. Lee's expression matched the stunned, open-mouthed expression of the character, Cameron, from "Ferris Bueller's Day Off", after Cameron "kills" his dad's Porsche. Lee's worse off than Kat was when she was drugged out on stims. He's clinically depressed. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:22, 20 January 2006 (EST)

== Promotion!? ==

Aw, hell. While we were all chewin' through what Major pips looked like, [[The Captain's Hand|recent events]] turn Lee Adama into a Commander!? I hope we all realize how really really confusing THIS is going to be from the disambigs for "Commander Adama" and first-season to mid-second season links. Curse you, Ron Moore! Curse you!!! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:05, 17 February 2006 (EST)

I don't get it either! What's with the Admiral?! Why did he put Lee in command of the Pegasus? Because he knows some tactics? He knows very little about commanding. Even Garner knew more! Would Lee sacrifice his life to save Pegasus? I doubt it. From episode to episode I hate Apollo more and more. The old man has lost his mind or what?! A flyboy in command? Worser than an engineer if you ask me. And how the hell got flyboy Adama promoted two time in a couple of weeks?! And WHY?! Why wouldn't the Admiral put Tigh in command instead? He has the ability to command a BS with discipline and Pegasus could adapt very fast to it because Cain was like that too. A flyboy in command? Right. Now that's what I call out of the box thinking. Well, it's light years from the box in this case. What will come next? Apollo will candidate for the presidency? Oh, I know: In the next episode (Downloaded) he will be revealed as God and he will lead the fleet to salvation. I hope the Pegasus will be destroyed pretty soon when Lee "God" Adama will be on board.

--[[User:Nyiz|Nyiz]] 16:32, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Wow, from Captain to Major to Commander in a matter of days. That's got to be a record somewhere. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 17:41, 18 February 2006 (EST)

No, more like Captain to Lieutenant to Captain to Major to Commander in a matter of weeks. (haha) It's more maddening when you think of it that way. But without him, the Pegasus wouldn't have made it out of that trap; that had to be tricky. Granted, Garner's repair was vital too.

I need to go back and watch the episode, I totally had the impression that the Admiral was transfering to Pegasus and Lee was taking Galactica. I'm most curious however to find out who his XO is going to be. My only possible guess is Captain Kelly, Galactica LSO [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 18:43, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Barry Garner

2006-02-18T23:31:54Z

Rocky8311:

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Garner.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony=
|birthname= Barry Garner
|callsign=
|death= Restoring coolant pressure to the Pegasus' FTL drive during the [[Battle of the Binary Star System]]
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Commander, [[Battlestar]] [[Pegasus]]
|rank= Commander
|actor= [http://imdb.com/name/nm0001334 John Heard]
|cylon=
}}

'''Barry Garner''' is a Colonial officer on [[Battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' prior to the deaths of Admiral [[Helena Cain]] and Colonel [[Jack Fisk]]. Before his promotion, he was an engineer.

Barry Garner is the third officer to assume command of [[Battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' after the ship was integrated in Admiral [[William Adama]]'s [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]. He assumed command after the suspect death of Commander [[Jack Fisk]] ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

Despite Garner's lack of command insight when jumping to recover Raptors [[Raptor 718|718]] and [[Raptor 314|314]], he died a rather heroic death by sealing the coolant leak causing a pressure drop in ''Pegasus's'' FTL Drive system, entering a compartment that was venting out to space and sealing the hatch behind him. The emergency repair allowed the ''Pegasus'' engineering crew to repair the ships [[FTL]] drive, thus escaping a [[Battle of the Binary Star System|hopeless battle]].

As a Commander, Garner did not inspire great confidence in his abilities. He was considered paranoid and barely competent by Starbuck, and the events surrounding his death showed that he was needed more below-deck where his abilities and leadership in Engineering were apparently sorely missed. It is unclear how his absence will affect the engineering crew's proficiency during future crises.

{| class="wikitable" style="margin: 0.5em auto; border: 1px solid red; font-size:95%;"
|- style="text-align: center;"
|width="30%" align="center" rowspan="{{{rows}}}" | Preceded by: '''[[Jack Fisk]]'''
|width="40%" style="text-align: center;" rowspan="{{{rows}}}" | Commander of the Battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''
|width="30%" align="center" rowspan="{{{rows}}}" | Succeeded by: '''[[Lee Adama]]'''
|-
|}

[[Category: A to Z|Gardner, Barry]] [[Category: Characters|Gardner, Barry]] [[Category: RDM|Gardner, Barry]]

Talk:The Captain's Hand/Archive 1

2006-02-18T10:31:25Z

Rocky8311:

==Episode Impressions==

Well I think that was a damn good episode, a good improvement over some of the previous episodes. Tricky for some article editing but overall I know you guys will do a great job on the page. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 23:02, 17 February 2006 (EST)

:Not bad at all. [[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 23:05, 17 February 2006 (EST)

::I agree. Some tense moments, and the Baltar announcement kinda threw me for a second, but overall a refresing change of pace. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:13, 17 February 2006 (EST)

== Not ANOTHER Commander! ==

This episode was topnotch, yes. But this leaves us wikipedians with a bit of a problem. Enter "Commander Adama" and you get William Adama. We'll need a disambig for this new change. Betting that Lee's promotion is temporary, of course. And, for me at least, there's the matter of the new commander living long enough--Pegasus goes through commanders now like I go through a bag of cookies. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:08, 17 February 2006 (EST)
:Perhaps maybe the Pegasus will be around longer than we thought? [[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 23:10, 17 February 2006 (EST)
::Or maybe we'll have another Adama cliffhanger, this time with Lee... -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:13, 17 February 2006 (EST)
:::Methinks those nuke hits will come back to haunt them (especially with the nuke Baltar took coming into play) and Adama will go for either, a) another space walk when the Pegasus goes boom or b) He will be aboard Galactica laughing at Tigh for still being a Colonel. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 23:21, 17 February 2006 (EST)

Personally, as a US Navy vet, I think this was a huge breach in protocol. Granted, I'm loving the show and plotwise it's a good move, the reality of it is that if anything, Tigh would have been promoted to Commander (and probably should have been after the ''Pegasus'' lost its two seniormost officers) and '''perhaps''' Lee promoted to Colonel as the XO. Obviously, there was the huge flareup from when Tigh had command of the fleet, but even still, as XO of ''Galactica'', it should have went to him.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 23:19, 17 February 2006 (EST)

:I agree with you, and it might make for some good Tigh material later on, with him and Ellen being pissed off for being passed over. But I think because of the reactions he got within the fleet, there would be more trouble then its worth. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 23:21, 17 February 2006 (EST)
::Pretty much what I was thinking as well, especially since ADM Adama and Tigh go way back, so he'll probably see this as a major snub. So again, as a plot issue, I think it works. But I think the whole thing probably could have been handled a bit more realistically. But that's just me. ^_^;;;--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 23:25, 17 February 2006 (EST)
:::Hey, all! New here. And same thoughts here, but not just from Tigh, but maybe from the fleet. Kara didn't seem to care one way or another (or, at least, didn't voice it), but I think some might be extremely angry that Lee went from Major to Commander in a month. [[User:Michael|Michael]] 23:29, 17 February 2006 (EST)
::::As much as it was a breach in protocol, [[Saul_Tigh|Col. Tigh]] might not be miffed as bad as everyone thinks. Recall from [[Scattered]], that he really wasn't interested in "the big chair". I'm thinking that Ellen may have the larger issue of the two. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:41, 17 February 2006 (EST)
:::::True, but there is still the matter of OPLANs, NAVREGs (or whatever serves for the fleet). It was as much rules and regulations - some of the stuff that ADM Adama is supposed to adhere to, especially during wartime - as Tigh's preferences. Granted, I'm probably reading a bit much of real-world influences into this, and I understand that they did it for the plot, but again, I really expect some backlash to happen, both on-screen and somewhat amongst the really, really nitpicky fans. Like me. ^_- --'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 23:54, 17 February 2006 (EST)

Was Apollo promoted to Commander or simply given command of the Pegasus and stayed at the rank of Major ?. After all it is possible to be the Captain (and referred to as the Captain) of a ship without holding the rank of Captain. Maybe the same thing holds for the Commander designation. Although being given the pips does confuse things but it does seem strange that he jumped almost two command ranks in one go. --[[User:Rexpop|Rexpop]] 02:12, 18 February 2006 (EST)

==Survivor Count==
The survivor count went down by six even though we saw seven deaths in the last episode. This could be explained by the well established fact that cylon deaths do not result in a dropping of the count. It has long been speculated that [[Billy|Billy]] is/was a cylon. If this is true it would explain the loss of only six from the count. That said, it is also possible, even probable that there was a birth. In the podcast for [[Sacrifice|Sacrifice]] it is said that Billy was killed off just because the actor portraying him wished to pursue other projects. Thoughts?--[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 02:30, 18 February 2006 (EST)

:No, for two reasons: One, we actually saw the White Board of Death to confirm numbers, Two: occasionally there are births in the fleet which make the number go up slightly. Although this could never account for the sudden, unexplained gain of 50 people at a time or something, it does go to explain why sometimes there are episodes where a lot of people die, but the survivor count doesn't drop that much.
--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:27, 18 February 2006 (EST)

::I don't understand what you're saying. Im not disputing the numbers, im giving a possible explination for why the number went down by only six when we see seven people (pehaps one of them a cylon) dying in the previous episode. --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 03:37, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Seven people die on screen. 2 more die off screen. 3 babies are born off screen. We don't hear about these second two events, but they still ''happen'', and when we see the renewed survivor count, it's a ''Net'' loss of six, and so forth. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:56, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Whether Billy is a Cylon is not an issue for the Survivor Count (fleet population). President Roslin wouldn't yet be aware, so it would not be a factor in the population count, and therefore to mention the speculation about Billy wasn't really relevant. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 04:15, 18 February 2006 (EST)

== Tigh and Seniority ==

In the questions, I wonder if the reference to Tigh's "seniority" is even relevent. This isn't a situation analogous to the time (now-Admiral) Adama was shot because in that case, Tigh was the most senior officer PERIOD, and here now Tigh is, of course, not. Adama, as the ranking flag officer (Admiral, if not Commander, and up), presumably has the authority to make promotions as he sees fit. While I'm sure anyone would agree that the promotion of Lee to Commander was unusual, does anybody really think promoting Tigh would have seemed like a good idea to anyone in the fleet? Just curious. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 05:31, 18 February 2006 (EST)