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Continuity errors (TRS)

2010-05-11T05:06:10Z

Rjinswand: /* VFX Gaffes */ There wasn't an episode named "Amid Season 1" so it doesn't need quotes :-)

This is a listing of '''continuity errors''' in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]].

== Acknowledged Mistakes ==

*At the end of "[[Home, Part II]]", when everyone is looking at the map to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]] in the [[Tomb of Athena]], Lee Adama points out the [[w:Lagoon Nebula|Lagoon Nebula]] in one of the constellations shown in the sky. According to him, and supported by the visual effects, the nebula is located in [[w:Scorpius|Scorpio]], but in the real world it is actually in the constellation [[wikipedia:Sagittarius (constellation)|Sagittarius]].
*At the beginning of "[[Downloaded]]" two captions are shown: one states that the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon Attack]] in the [[Miniseries, Night 1|Miniseries]] occurred nine months before the current episode (which is consistent with the other episodes in Season 2.5), while the second reads "10 weeks ago", and then shows [[Cally Tyrol|Cally]] shooting [[Sharon Valerii|"Boomer" Valerii]] in "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]". However, it is impossible for this to have happened "10 weeks before 9 months after the attack": 9 months = 270 days. There is another plaque in the episode "[[Epiphanies]]" which clearly states on screen that that episode took place on Day 189. There are 70 days in 10 weeks. 70 days before Day 270 would be around Day 200; well after "Epiphanies". To correct this, the title card of the DVD and international television releases has been changed to "10 weeks later", meaning 10 weeks after [[Caprica Six]]'s resurrection.
*In "[[Scar]]" Starbuck and Kat fly [[Viper Mark VII]]s but the launch in the originally aired episode showed a [[Viper Mark II]]. This has been fixed in the DVD release which now includes a new, but somewhat shorter, launch sequence with the Mk VIIs. (Although, a few previous episodes like "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" only use the Mk II sequence, but both types of Vipers are deployed by ''Galactica''.)
*"[[Exodus, Part I]]": At the end of "[[Precipice]]" Cally is clearly in the woods when the gunfire is going off. At the time [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] and his group take aim at the [[Cylon Centurion]], Cally has not reached the wooded area by the time gunfire sounds. Further, when the gunfire begins in "Precipice", Tyrol is at the firing position, far from Cally, while in "Exodus, Part I" he is holding her to the ground when it begins.

== [[Retroactive continuity|Retcons]] ==
*[[Season two timeline discontinuity]]: All episodes before Season 2.5 (starting with "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]") seem to indicate that Season 2.5 begins 3-4 months after the Cylon attack. However, "Resurrection Ship, Part I" and all subsequent Season 2.5 episodes indicate that "Resurrection Ship, Part I" began 6 months after the Cylon attack. See the main article for more detailed analysis. There are 3 main points of discontinuity:
**[[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii]] is not visibly pregnant in "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", but by "[[Epiphanies]]", roughly 2-3 weeks later, she appears to be in her second trimester.
**The presidential elections in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" are said to take place 9 months after the attack, when throughout Season 1 it was consistently said to be 7 months after the Cylon attack.
**If all of the dates mentioned in each episode are counted up, "Pegasus" only occurs roughly three months post-attack, not six.
*[[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet numbers]]: In the [[Miniseries]], a total of 40 [[FTL]] ships (led by Roslin) rendezvous with ''Galactica'' at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. This makes the count 41 ships, including ''Galactica''. However, this number was enlarged for the series. In "[[33]]," Dualla states: "Jump 237 underway... 53 ships have jumped, 10 still reporting trouble with their FTL drives, including ''Colonial One''." Thus making the total 64 ships, including ''Galactica'' herself. By the end of "33", the count drops to 63 as [[Lee Adama]] and [[Kara Thrace]] destroy the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]''. In "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]", Colonel Tigh mentions the Cylons searching for "a sixty-odd ships". The count offered in "[[The Farm]]" is similar — 24 ships leave to join [[Laura Roslin faction|Roslin's fleet]], which was "almost a third" of the Fleet, putting the number at about 75. About 65 ships have been named to date, mostly on the vote tally boards in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]".
*The ''[[Astral Queen]]'': In the [[Miniseries]], [[Billy Keikeya]] states that the captain had 500 prisoners in his cargo hold, and that the ''Queen'' was a cargo vessel transporting prisoners to a prison. In "[[Bastille Day]]", [[Billy Keikeya]]'s lines were re-dubbed: '''1,500''' prisoners are aboard the ''Astral Queen'' and that the ship was a '''prison transport'''. Lee Adama would go on to later state that the ''Astral Queen'' was en route to [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]] for parole hearings.
*[[Cylon detector]]: In the episode "[[Flesh and Bone]]", it takes only minutes to identify [[Sharon Valerii|"Boomer" Valerii]] as a Cylon. However, in "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", he states that complete testing on one sample of blood takes 11 hours. However, this could be because a negative result takes 11 hours to confirm but a positive result potentially may be more instant. Although, since Ellen is later revealed to be a member of the [[Final Five]] in "[[Sometimes a Great Notion]]", coupled with the fact that Baltar rigged the results to always read as negative and said he would "never tell" what Ellen's true results were, it is possible that it takes 11 hours to alter any positive readouts so that they'd appear to be negative.
*The exodus from [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]]: In "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" Elosha, Billy and Roslin are discussing Kobol and the exodus of the tribes. Billy says that the ruins on Kobol are 2,000 years old. Elosha states this is when the ''Thirteen'' tribes left Kobol. Other mentions in the show (particularly [[Season 3 (2006-07)|Season 3]] episodes concerning the [[Lymphocytic encephalitis|Cylon virus]] and the [[Temple of Five]]) mention that the 13th tribe left Kobol about 2,000 years before the other twelve did. Elosha's comment implies that all thirteen tribes left Kobol together, just in different directions.
* In "[[Final Cut]]", [[Louanne Katraine]] says hello to her mother on camera in the [[duty locker]] and says hello to her buddies on ''[[Freighter 212]]'', yet in "[[The Passage]]", Katraine is noted as the alias for Sasha, a gun-runner who has been avoiding her past. These two pieces of information are not fully congruent.
*In "[[No Exit]]", [[Cavil]] tells [[Ellen]] that he had programmed himself to stop sleeping decades ago. However, [[Cavil]] is shown in pajamas getting into bed in "[[The Plan]]", which takes place only a few years before his statement to Ellen.

== Danglers ==
Danglers are plotlines that have been started, but were never resolved.
*[[Tom Zarek|Zarek]]-[[Ellen Tigh|Tigh]] plotline: In the episode "[[Colonial Day]]", it is heavily implied that [[Ellen Tigh]] revealed the location of [[Valance]] to agents of [[Tom Zarek]], and that she intends for her husband, Colonel [[Saul Tigh]], to meet with Zarek's people in the near future. Nothing of this is touched again up to Ellen's murder in "[[Exodus, Part II]]" or even Zarek's execution later in "[[Blood on the Scales]]", at which point the Tighs had been outed as Cylons.
*Zarek-[[Black market (organization)|black market]] plotline: Similarly, the end of "[[Black Market]]" implies that Zarek has assumed some measure of influence in that organization, yet there is no mention of his association with the black market in the remainder of the series.
*[[Demand Peace]]: The pro-Cylon terrorist faction that sprung up in the fleet during "[[Epiphanies]]" has yet to resurface as well. The episode concluded without any firm resolution regarding the fate of the movement and its leader [[Royan Jahee]], however their base of operations, "[[Cloud 9]]", was destroyed by [[Gina Inviere]] in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]". The plotline of "Epiphanies" implies that the group is gearing up for a full-scale campaign against the Fleet's leadership, but they are never seen again and the fates of the group's members are not discussed later on.
* [[Colonial Workers Alliance]]: This union, lead by [[Galen Tyrol]], begins on [[New Caprica]] in "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II" and is touched upon in the episode "[[Dirty Hands]]". However, in light of Tyrol's discovery of being a member of the [[Final Five]], and his [[Escape Velocity|subsequent breakdown]] occurring after [[The Ties That Bind|the death]] of [[Cally Tyrol|his wife]], his association with the union has not been noted since, and its existence has not been mentioned post-"Dirty Hands".

== Recasting ==
*[[Zak Adama]]: In the [[Miniseries]], a different actor (or stand-in) is pictured as Zak Adama. In "[[Act of Contrition]]", a new actor portrays Zak, and the picture was changed to reflect the casting choice.
*[[Ellen Tigh]]: Same with Zak Adama. The picture of Saul Tigh's wife, which Tigh has burned a hole through, was originally a picture of [[David Eick]]'s wife, Jennifer Berchfeild. When [[Kate Vernon]] was cast as Ellen in "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", the image was changed.
*[[Richard Adar]]: In the Miniseries he is [[:md:Image:Bsg-baltar-adar.jpg|portrayed]] by [[David Eick]] in a photograph in Baltar's domicile on Caprica. When Adar appears in person in "[[Epiphanies]]" he is played by [[Colm Feore]].
*[[Carolanne Adama]] is portrayed by an uncredited actress during a cameo in "[[Act of Contrition]]". She is portrayed by [[Lucinda Jenney]] in the episode "[[A Day in the Life]]".

== Logic errors ==

* "[[Scar]]":
** In the last act of this episode, when [[Kara Thrace]] enters the [[rec room]], an intercut scene of the people in the room shows Kara Thrace (at ~38:50) sitting at a table drinking from the "Top Gun" stein. However, the stein is being used by [[Louanne Katraine]] at this point, and Thrace had just entered.
* "[[He That Believeth in Me]]":
** In the previous episode ([[Crossroads, Part II]]), it is established that [[Samuel Anders]] has a limp from a broken leg he received in "[[The Son Also Rises]]". The limp is visible in the revelation of the "[[frakr:Fantastic Four|Fantastic Four]]" in the last act. However, the limp disappears completely in "He That Believeth in Me" in events that are depicted to happen 10 (or fewer) minutes later.
** In "Crossroads, Part II", it is implied that Samuel Anders only began his training, as he is being shown avionics and other key systems in a Raptor by Lieutenant [[Margaret Edmondson]]. In this episode, he tells [[Kara Thrace]] that he concluded basic training and began [[ACM]], and is capable of flying the Viper.
*The events of the episodes "[[Sine Qua Non]]" and "[[The Hub]]" occur concurrently, yet the population count drops by one in between the two episodes. Arguably there should have been no drop until the survivor count appears again in "[[Revelations]]". The appearance of [[Eammon Pike]], who dies during the events seen in "The Hub" but whose corpse is found in the preceding episode probably explains the error.
*In "[[The Plan]]", [[William Adama]] asks [[Sharon Valerii]] to take her Raptor and destroy the [[Basestar (RDM)|Basestar]] orbiting [[Kobol]], the same scene from "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]". In the next scene, [[Giana O'Neill]] returns from working on the [[hangar deck]], saying that [[Galen Tyrol]] had asked her to look over the captured [[Raider]]. This is a sequential error, as Adama had sent Valerii on the mission because Tyrol had been shot down on Kobol and [[Kara Thrace]] had stolen the Raider.

== VFX Gaffes ==
[[Image:1104reverse Scattered.JPG|thumb|left|Mirrored shot of Viper 1104 ([[Scattered]]).]]
*[[Miniseries]]: No less than three copies of [[Viper 1104]] are present at the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]. Of these, one is crash landed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace|Thrace]], one destroyed by Cylon fire, and one successfully landed on ''Galactica''.
*[[Miniseries]] and "[[33]]": As ''Galactica'' prepares to jump to Ragnar Anchorage, the flight pods retract. As the ship jumps, the pods are not retracted. When ''Galactica'' has jumped to Ragnar Anchorage the pods are retracted again. This same footage is shown during the opening titles of "33".
*"[[33]]": As the Cylon Centurion approaches Helo from behind, the rain is hitting it, but it does not drip off its body. In contrast, water is dripping from Helo's face in a fairly consistent and noticeable manner.
*"[[You Can't Go Home Again]]": Before searching for Starbuck, [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] climbs into a Viper Mk VII, although he is shown piloting a Mk II in all other effects shots. However, his Mark VII is mentioned as being down for repairs at one point, implying that he flies it off screen.
*[[Season 1 (2004-05)|Amid Season 1]]: Half-way through Season 1, the ''[[Colonial One]]'' CG model was updated and the seal of the President of the Colonies was added to the hull. However, the reuse of stock footage from the Miniseries and earlier in the first season cause the seal to continually disappear and reappear in the same episode depending on what shot is used.
*"[[Scattered]]": A shot of Viper 1104 is mirrored accidentally.
*"[[Flight of the Phoenix]]"''':
**Viper and [[List of pilots|pilot]] numbers: 42 Vipers are deployed at a time when no more than 34 could have been serviceable, and with no more than 25 pilots available.
**[[Blackbird]]: As the [[Great Cylon Turkey Shoot]] begins, the Blackbird (still incomplete, untested, and missing its composite skin by this point) can be seen swooping across the screen in a manner inconsistent with its flight characteristics; the ship was built for speed, not maneuverability. The ship also fires what appears to be autocannons, although Blackbird is unarmed except in its [[Resurrection Ship, Part II|final mission]].
*"[[The Captain's Hand]]": As Starbuck leads ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus's]]'' [[Viper Mark VII|Viper Mk VIIs]] into combat, a cockpit shot of her mistakenly shows [[Viper Mark II|Viper Mk IIs]] around her ship.
*"[[Crossroads, Part II]]":
** Lee Adama's Viper Mark VII is identified as 2220NC, or [[Viper 2220 (Mark VII)|Viper 2220]]. However, [[Viper 2220]] has already been established as a Viper Mark II, not a Mark VII, which has seen multiple appearances as Adama's Viper throughout Season 1.
**Further, Kara Thrace's pristine Viper does not have a nameplate. This is telling in closeups of her in her Viper's cockpit. However, this error is not present in the following episode, "[[He That Believeth in Me]]".
*"[[Revelations]]": When [[Felix Gaeta]] stumbles in the [[CIC]], the shadow of his [[Guess What's Coming to Dinner?|amputated]] leg is visible.
*"[[Razor]]":
**When Starbuck orders Showboat to "open up with all you've got" as they find themselves in ''Pegasus''<nowiki>'</nowiki> firing solution, the gun shown firing is that of a [[Viper Mark II]]. However, Starbuck and Showboat are in [[Viper Mark VII]]s.

==Anachronisms==
*[[Miniseries]]:
**An [[wikipedia:F-16 Fighting Falcon|F-16 Fighting Falcon]] is visible in a picture in Adama's quarters when he and Colonel Tigh discuss Starbuck striking Tigh. However, this could be a tribute; the F-16 is sometimes called "Viper" by its pilots.
*"[[Six Degrees of Separation]]":
**The special-effects group for the Re-imagined Series appear dedicated to creating computer screens, equipment and interfaces that are familiar to viewers, but aren't full counterparts to real-world Earth materials. However, the logo for NEC computer manufacturers can be seen on the monitors while [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] is working on the photograph. A similar occurrence happens in "Sacrifice".
*"[[Home, Part I]]":
**As Adama gives his first press conference after recovering from his gunshot wounds, the logo of the electronics manufacturer [[w:SHURE|SHURE]] is seen on the podium microphone.
*"[[Scar]]":
**The little model plane on top of the "Top Gun" mug sported by Starbuck and Kat is actually an [[wikipedia:F/A-18 Hornet|F/A-18 Hornet]].
*"[[Sacrifice]]":
**A computer mouse (a design created by [[Wikipedia:Microsoft|Microsoft]]) is seen connected to [[Sesha Abinell]]'s laptop computer.
*"[[Exodus, Part II]]":
** In the scene where ''Galactica'' falls to [[New Caprica]] after an inter-atmosphere Jump, a closeup of the grease pencils that roll around on the navigation table makes the markings of where they are made visible, in this case: [[w:China|China]].
*"[[The Plan]]"
**The [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprican]] landmasses shown at the beginning of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack on the Colonies]] are clearly identifiable as those of Earth, specifically an inverted and stretched image of [[w:Europe|Europe]], as well as the [[w:Iranian Peninsula|Iranian Peninsula]], the [[w:Arabian Peninsula|Arabian Peninsula]] and [[w:Turkey|Turkey]]. This most likely represents an instance of CGI corner-cutting.
**In what is either an Easter egg (given the large amount of ''Battlestar Galactica'' filming which took place in and around Vancouver) or another CGI cost-cutting move, a Cylon [[w:MIRV|MIRV]] is seen detonating over a large city [http://www.niciasus.com/wp-content/gallery/bsg-the-plan/bsgplan_059.JPG] which is actually a Google Maps satellite image of downtown [[w:Vancouver|Vancouver]], rotated approximately 180 degrees counterclockwise. [http://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF8&q=vancouver+bc&fb=1&gl=us&ei=jfueS-vzCqG2zASz77TPBg&ved=0CBgQpQY&hl=en&view=map&geocode=FeSz7wId-w2p-A&split=0&iwloc=A&sa=X] The domes of the [[w:General Motors Place|General Motors Place]] and [[w:BC Place|BC Place Stadium]] sports arenas are clearly visible when the nuclear missiles are falling.
**The CGI landscape which appears during the Hybrid's statement that the "courthouses of [[Libran]] are burning" is the exact same landscape which is shown on screen as [[Tauron City]] in the ''[[Caprica (series)|Caprica]]'' episode "[[Know Thy Enemy]]", which takes place some 58 years before the events of [[The Plan]]. The ''Caprica'' version is widened and more buildings added. (It is unclear whether the landscape shown in "The Plan" was indeed intended to represent Tauron, or if this is simply another example of CGI corner-cutting by incorporating footage created for "The Plan" into ''Caprica''.)

==Prop and Equipment Errors==
[[Image:2276gaff Mini.JPG|thumb|Major Spencer in Viper 2276 ([[Miniseries]]).]]
*[[Miniseries]]:
**The Viper Mk. VII flown by Major Spencer during the first sortie ([[Miniseries]]) is still marked as "Viper 2276NC" which is the Viper flown by Captain Lee Adama to ''Galactica''.
**As [[Sharon Valerii|"Boomer" Valerii]] takes off from Caprica with the civilians in the [[Raptor]], just after [[Helo]] shoots the civilian who jumps on to the wing, the camera points to Boomer, where viewers can see in the window reflection the crane that is hoisting the Raptor mockup into the air.
**As shown in a closeup of the pilot after giving [[Laura Roslin]] the [[Case Orange]] reply, the spaceline's name on the [[Colonial One captain]]'s uniform, "Eversun," is mismatched to the spaceline name used on ''[[Colonial Heavy 798]]'' itself: [[Intersun]].
**When Starbuck's Viper is hit during the second sortie ("I'm all right"), her helmet is unsealed and open.
**Similarly, Lee Adama's collar is opened when he scolds her for being "beyond insane" as Thrace pushing Adama's Viper into ''Galactica's'' [[flight pod]] at the end of the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]].
*"[[33]]":
**When [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] admits that she lost the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'', her headset changes sides during the conversation.
**As Helo fires upon the Cylon Centurion that survives the detonation of an anti-personnel mine (similar to a [[Wikipedia:Claymore mine|Claymore mine]]), the first time Helo fires the pistol, it is heard to fire, but there is no accompanying visual spark from the barrel. In contrast, the second shot is accompanied by both a spark and the appropriate sound.
**After the disappearance of the ''Olympic Carrier'' in jump 238, with the timer running towards the 33 minute mark, the viewer can see that the clock is at 10 seconds. When focusing on Adama and Tigh, the viewer hears ten seconds counting off, but when the camera quick-pans to the overhead console, it reads that 3 seconds have passed.
**Before the clock reaches zero in the teaser, a wide shot of [[CIC]] is shown with Adama and Tigh standing at the central console. The timer on the screen above their heads is flashing 00:00:00.
*"[[Colonial Day]]": During the bar fight scene, [[Valance]]'s gun is shown with a silencer attached as it falls out of his briefcase, but the silencer is not present for the rest of the scene. The silencer is back when [[Valance]] is interrogated by Starbuck and Apollo.
*"[[Valley of Darkness]]": [[Kat]] finds a box of explosive rounds with only 6 shells. The shells in the container start out scattered within the box, but as the camera cuts back and forth in the scene the shells switch from organized to scattered many times.
*"[[Black Market]]": At around 42:55 in the episode, the [[w:John Fowles|John Fowles]] historical fiction/romance novel ''[[w:The French Lieutenant's Woman|The French Lieutenant's Woman]]'' appears on a shelf behind the couch in [[William Adama]]'s room, to [[Lee Adama]]'s left.
*"[[Scar]]":
**When getting intimate with Apollo, the bandage on Starbuck's back moves from one side to the other. Usually, such bandages are used to cover a tattoo of a crucifix on her shoulder.
*"[[Sacrifice]]":
**When Starbuck is getting the handguns out of her case, she still has the environmental engineer's hat on. When she quickly turns around with the guns and starts firing, her hat has disappeared without explanation.
*"[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]": When the rescue mission returns from Caprica, [[Cavil]] (as well as probably Sharon Valerii and Karl Agathon) are carried by Raptor that is labeled with [[Racetrack]]'s name. However, Racetrack never made it to Caprica.
*"[[Exodus, Part II]]":
**The [[DRADIS]] displays on ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' are free of interference from the [[New Caprica]] nebula, even though it continued to be an obvious problem for both ships at the end of "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]".
*"[[The Passage]]": [[Raymond Lai|Raymond "Raygun" Lai]]'s name appears on ''Galactica''’s flight roster. His name previously appeared on one of the 40 year-old Viper Mk. IIs in the ''Galactica'' museum during the [[Miniseries]].
*"[[Razor]]":
** Early in the scenes with the search and rescue party in the [[Guardian basestar]], Kara Thrace can be seen with the [[Arts and Literature of the Twelve Colonies#Tattoos|tattoo]] she gets after marrying [[Samuel Anders]], an event that won't happen for months from the story's perspective. It is absent in later scenes.
**[[Kendra Shaw]] has a band-aid on the end of her right index finger throughout the episode, in both the present and in the flashback scenes. However, it seems highly unlikely that she would either still be wearing it over the course of ten months or would coincidently have to apply another one on the same part of the same finger.
* In several episodes characters wear the wrong [[Military Ranks (RDM)|rank insignia]]:
** "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]": [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] wears "lieutenant j.g." (short chevron) insignia in several scenes.
** "[[Fragged]]": [[Cally]] is wearing petty officer, 2nd class instead of crewman specialist insignia.
** "[[Home, Part I]]" and "[[Home, Part II]]": [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] wears major instead of captain insignia.
** "[[Scar]]":
*** In the first scene in the recreation room Starbuck wears lieutenant insignia despite having been promoted to captain.
*** Some of the [[nuggets]] have lieutenant insignia despite being addressed as ensigns. Apparently, the prop department had not produced the ensign insignias at that time.
** "[[The Captain's Hand]]": Apollo's insignia switch between captain and major at least once. Major is his correct rank at that time.
**"[[Hero]]": In the flashback scenes in ''Valkyrie'''s CIC, Commander Adama is wearing admiral's insignia.
**"[[Dirty Hands]]": Again, lt. j.g pins are used for the rank of ensign.
**"[[Escape Velocity]]": Saul Tigh wears admiral's insignia during the episode's teaser.
*"[[Sometimes a Great Notion]]": Commander Adama spills liquor on Saul Tigh's table and throws the marine's pistol on the table. In each of the six cuts, the module below the barrel of the gun changes: first it is slightly wet, then dry, then wet in a different way, dry again, then wet matching the first scene, then dry again.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==Dialogue Errors==
*[[Miniseries]]:
**The pronunciation of Lt. [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]]'s name frequently shifts between ''GAY-ta'' and ''GUY-ta'' during the Miniseries. Colonel Tigh regularly calls him GUY-ta while Adama vacillates between GAY-ta and GUY-ta. From "33" onward he is referred to by everyone as GAY-ta.
**Tigh exclaims "Jesus!" when shown the photo of Adama, Zak and Lee. Ron Moore has stated that this was just an ad-lib by the actor, and was never in the script, and should have been removed during editing. In fact this was removed from the "theatrical version" shown on [[Universal HD]].
** "Oh my God!" as opposed to "Gods".
***When being informed by Six of her true nature and mission, [[Gaius Baltar]] exclaims "Oh, my God!"
***Also when Caprica Six breaks the neck of the baby the mother, [[Chantara]], screeches "Oh, my God!" several times.
***[[Jackson Spencer]] also makes this mistake after the Cylon Raiders launch missiles at his disabled squadron.
***When Secretary of Education Laura Roslin informs the passengers of ''Colonial Heavy 798'' about the attack a woman reacts "Oh my God".
****All of these instances of the use of "Oh my God!" may not necessarily be errors. The events of [[Caprica (series)|Caprica]] have demonstrated that monotheism was known to the Twelve Colonies; the Colonials were not uniformly polytheistic. However, Baltar did not explicitly adopt monotheism until [[Cult_of_Baltar|much later in the series]].

* "[[33]]":
** Helo states his rank as "lieutenant, junior grade" despite consistently wearing "lieutenant, senior grade" rank insignia.
** Later in the episode, when President Roslin and Dr. Baltar are discussing cutting off communications with the ''Olympic Carrier'', Baltar uses the term "radio" instead of the in-universe term of "[[wireless]]" during the conversation.
*"[[Valley of Darkness]]": When [[Lee Adama|Apollo]], [[Kat]] and others are searching the ship for weapons a [[Cylon Centurion|Centurion]] turns the corner and Kat says "Jesus".
*"[[Downloaded]]": In the Miniseries, [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] claims that her parents died while she was very young, regarding the accident at [[Troy (RDM)|Troy]], which is later supported by dialogue in "[[Flesh and Bone]]". In "Downloaded" she explains that she received a gift from her mother when she left for the Fleet academy.
*"[[Hero]]": The episode places the flashback events one year prior to the [[Cylon attack]]. However, this conflicts with earlier information that Adama served on ''Galactica'' for several years, Tyrol under him for at least five years and Gaeta for three years. For more details, see [[Hero#Analysis]].
*"[[Unfinished Business]]": When Adama is down in his corner and bleeding badly, Roslin says "coagulant for the swelling, ice for the bleeding". This should be the other way around.

==Crew Visible==

*A member of the production crew, possibly a boom operator, is visible on screen in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]". He can be seen behind the damaged wall behind the display of the [[Arrow of Apollo]].
*In "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]" another camera operator can be briefly seen after the fight between Tyrol and Helo, as Tyrol walks to the Raptor to sit on its wing.
*At ~31:14 in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]", a cameraman can be seen to the right of the frame as another camerman pushes in through the small crowd that celebrates [[Laura Roslin]]'s victory over [[Gaius Baltar]] and ultimately up to Roslin's reaction at her desk.
*At 1:06:12 in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]", as the Cylons are marching in, a video screen of the crew can be seen in the distance on the right. Also, a camera dolly track can be seen on the ground just to the right of the crowd. The camera is most likely obscured from view by a plastic tarp.
*At 00:02:26 in "[[Unfinished Business]]", a camera can be seen briefly in the darkness behind the crowd.
<gallery>
Image:Gaffcrew klgpII.JPG|Crew member visible in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]".
Image:PhoenixCrewVisible.jpg|Camera crew in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]".
Image:Colonial One cameraman gaffe.jpg|A camerman in shorts and sneakers off to the right of the frame in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]".
Image:Bsg s02 e20 time01-06-12 orig.jpg|A video screen and a camera dolly track are visible in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]".
Image:Bsg s03 e09 time00-02-26 orig.jpg|A cameraman can be seen in the dark during a fight in "[[Unfinished Business]]".
</gallery>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Behind the Scenes]]
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[[de:Kontinuitätsfehler (RDM)]]

Military Ranks (RDM)

2010-05-11T04:54:24Z

Rjinswand: /* Rank table */

:''For the rank structure of the [[Original Series]], see [[Military Ranks (TOS)]]''
__TOC__
== Rank table ==

This table was originally based on an older blog entry by [[Ronald D. Moore]] posted in 2005, in which he replies to a question about the show's rank structure (see ''[[#Official Statements|Official Statements]]'' below). It has been expanded and altered since that time to include additional ranks that have been established since then (lieutenant colonel, rear admiral) and heavily supplemented by sources close to the show as well as a recently released rank pin chart. It should be noted that some of the ranks on the pin chart are listed differently elsewhere on this page for practical reasons. In some cases this is done because the rank given on the pin chart is assumed to represent a position rather than a specific rank (i.e. the only reference to term senior chief on screen (in "[[Blood on the Scales]]") appears to use it as a position rather than a rank, since only Tyrol holds the position of senior chief but both he and Peter Laird are chief petty officers) or because the the rank on the pin chart is consistently referred to differently on screen (i.e. crew specialist has always been referred to as specialist).

The ranks are a mix of naval and marine ranks inherited from the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]], but mirror naval practices in execution and are elaborated during the series both on-screen and in production notes. It is possible to create a rough equivalence to real world armed forces. However, while the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] has many parallels with modern armed forces it is a fictional organization and diverges from reality in certain places, for example in the duties of commanders and admirals, or the place of the [[CAG]] within the ship's hierarchy.

The officer ranks of the [[Colonial Marine Corps]] (CMC) have yet to be established on screen (with the exception of lieutenant) or by official sources and thus are not listed here. The Marine Corps's enlisted ranks largely mirror real world ranks. <ref name="sfc"/>

{| class="messagebox" style="width:100%" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2" align="center"
|- class="infoboxheader"
! style="font-size:100%;" align="left" valign="middle" | '''COLONIAL FLEET RANK'''
! style="font-size:100%;" align="left" valign="middle" | '''COLONIAL MARINE CORPS RANK'''
! style="font-size:100%;" align="left" valign="middle" | '''EXAMPLE'''
|-
| class="infoboxheader" colspan="3" align=center style="font-size:95%;" | '''FLAG OFFICER'''
|-
| Admiral <ref name="adm">'''Admiral''': [[Peter Corman]] wears the same admiral insignia as Adama and Cain, but with thick gold piping on his duty uniform. This raises the question of how a rear admiral can be distinguished from a full admiral in dress uniform, given that dress uniforms have no colored piping. It can be speculated that, as has been the case with the ranks of ensign and junior lieutenant, the production crew uses the same insignia for both admiral ranks, as only one type of admiral pin has been made for the show. It would normally be expected that different admiral grades would be distinguished by the number of gold bars (for example one set for a rear admiral, etc).</ref>||
| [[Nagala]], [[Peter Corman]]
|-
| Rear Admiral <ref name="ra">'''Rear Admiral''':
*In the [[Pegasus (Extended Version)|extended version]] of the episode "Pegasus", Adama states "Fleet promoted her to rear admiral over half of the commanders on the list.", thus establishing this rank.
*When Adama is promoted to admiral in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" his new rank insignia are identical to Cain's.
*Cain seems to command both her battlestar and its [[Battlestar Group]]. In modern practice, a captain (the real-world rank most similar to the colonial rank of commander) commands only the ship, while an admiral is in charge of the Carrier Strike Group and is often on the same ship as a captain.
*While Cain wears a regular rear admiral's duty uniform with gold-over-silver piping, Adama continues to wear his commander's duty uniform with red-over-gold piping after his promotion to admiral. From a production point of view, this was most likely done so that the crew didn't have to create a new set of uniforms for the actor, but can be explained in-universe by a lack of male admiral uniforms in the Fleet's stores following the attack on the Twelve Colonies. Similarly, Hoshi also wears his lieutenant's duty uniform with one line of solid white pipping after his promotion to admiral.
</ref>
|
| [[Helena Cain]], [[William Adama]] (Season 2.5+), [[Louis Hoshi]] ([[Daybreak, Part II]]) ||
|-
| class="infoboxheader" colspan="3" align=center style="font-size:95%;" | '''SENIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER'''
|-
| Commander ||
| William Adama (Miniseries-Season 2.5), [[Barry Garner]] (Season 2.5), [[Jack Fisk]] (Season 2.5), [[Lee Adama]] (breveted, Season 2.5-Season 3.0), [[Felix Gaeta]] (unofficially, during mutiny in "[[Blood on the Scales]]")
|-
| Colonel ||
| [[Saul Tigh]], [[Jurgen Belzen]]
|-
| Lieutenant Colonel <ref name="LtCol">'''Lieutenant Colonel''':
*This information [[Sources:Jack Fisk|comes from production materials]], which note [[Jack Fisk]]'s rank as lieutenant colonel in the portions of "[[Razor]]" before [[Jurgen Belzen]] is executed. Fisk wears different rank insignia from the normal colonel insignia, as seen [[:Image:Fisk LtCol insignia 1.jpg|here]] and [[:Image:Fisk LtCol pin 2.jpg|here]].
*These devices have been previously used for [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]", but she is identified as a lieutenant in dialog. Insiders have indicated that Dualla's use of the lieutenant colonel insignia was a costuming error/necessity, that was necessitated during her first appearances after becoming an officer because there weren't enough junior lieutenant devices to go around. It has also been noticed that other characters including Chief Tyrol have used them from time to time for the same reason.
*Fisk's uniform piping as a lieutenant colonel is the same red-over-white as on a full colonel's uniform. Given that he is the only person ever even referred to as holding that rank, it is likely safe to assume that lieutenant colonel and colonel share the same colors. This is unusual in that all other senior officers' uniforms have distinctive piping, but can be explained by their potentially similar duties. However, this may - like the use of some rank devices - be a production necessity: It was far easier to use the actor's existing uniform than create a new one (Fisk's first appearance took place within the show's timeline after he had already been promoted to full colonel as Razor was filmed in between that season and the following one.</ref> ||
| Jack Fisk ("[[Razor]]")
|-
| class="infoboxheader" colspan="3" align=center style="font-size:95%;" | '''JUNIOR COMMISSIONED OFFICER'''
|-
| Major ||
| [[Jackson Spencer]], [[Sherman Cottle]], [[Kendra Shaw]] <ref name="Major">After her promotion to major in "[[Razor]]", Shaw wears a colonel's red-over-white piping instead of the normal simple white piping normally worn by all junior officer ranks. This may have been an intentional decision to denote her position as ''Pegasus''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s XO, or just a costuming error.</ref>, Lee Adama (Season 2.5+)
|-
| Captain ||
| Lee Adama (Miniseries-Season 2.5), [[Kara Thrace]] (Season 2.5+), [[Aaron Kelly]], [[Karl Agathon]] (Season 3+)
|-
| Lieutenant ||
| Kara Thrace (Miniseries-Season 2.5), Karl Agathon (Miniseries-Season 2)<ref name="helo">Agathon states his rank as "lieutenant junior grade" in "[[33]]", but he consistently wears the rank insignia of a full lieutenant.</ref>, [[Louanne Katraine]] (Season 1-2)
|-
| Junior Lieutenant <ref>'''Junior Lieutenant''':
*The term "junior lieutenant" (or JRLT in short) is used in props and behind the scenes documentation. For example on Boomer's [[:Image:Boomer Raptor.JPG|Raptor nameplate]] in the [[Miniseries]] and Kara Thrace's disciplinary records in "[[The Son Also Rises]]". Although "lieutenant, junior grade" has also been used in dialogue a few times, for example by Karl Agathon in "[[33]]", the vast majority of on-screen references and behind-the-scenes documentation use the term "junior lieutenant", and is thus the term preferred by Battlestar Wiki.
*While Ron Moore's blog entry from a couple seasons ago (see "Official Statements" below) uses the term "lieutenant junior grade," it should also be pointed out that other differences between the blog entry and the actual terminology and structure have been definitively proven since that entry was written. </ref> ||
| [[Sharon Valerii]], [[Sharon Agathon]], [[Felix Gaeta]], [[Anastasia Dualla]] (Season 2+)
|-
| Ensign ||
| [[Davis]], [[Diana Seelix]] (Season 3+), [[Samuel Anders]] (Season 4)
|-
| class="infoboxheader" colspan="3" align=center style="font-size:95%;" | '''WARRANT OFFICER'''
|-
| Warrant Officer <ref name="warrant">'''Warrant officer''': Although to-date it has not been referenced in spoken dialogue, the rank of warrant officer is included in costuming notes, and is worn on-screen by background extras. It's existance is further supported by the uses of white uniforms by many background extras which are unique from the standard enlisted and commissioned officer uniforms.</ref> ||
| Various background extras (Season 2+)
|-
| class="infoboxheader" colspan="3" align=center style="font-size:95%;" | '''SENIOR ENLISTED (NON-COMMISSIONED OFFICER)'''
|-
| Master Chief Petty Officer || Sergeant Major
| [[Socrata Thrace]] (CMC, retired)
|-
| Chief Petty Officer || Gunnery Sergeant
| [[Galen Tyrol]] (Miniseries-Season 4), [[Erin Mathias]] (CMC), [[Peter Laird]]
|-
| Petty Officer 1st Class || Sergeant First Class <ref name="sfc">'''Sergeant First Class''':
*Unlike the other CMC enlisted ranks, this is not a US Marine Corps rank but the US Army equivalent to gunnery sergeant.
*In "[[Litmus]]" Sergeant [[Hadrian]] wears insignia listed here as petty officer 1st class. The term sergeant first class is never used on screen. However, behind the scenes documents list the Marine rank associated with the single chevron on green background worn by Hadrian (and shared with the rank of petty officer first class) as sergeant first class.</ref>
| [[Hadrian]] (CMC)
|-
| Petty Officer 2nd Class || Crew Sergeant
| [[Anastasia Dualla]] (Miniseries-Season 2), [[Cally Henderson]] (Season 3-4), [[Donald Perry]] (Season 1)
|-
| class="infoboxheader" colspan="3" align=center style="font-size:95%;" | '''JUNIOR ENLISTED'''
|-
| Specialist <ref>'''Specialist''': The end credits for "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]" and "[[Revelations]]" list [[Anthony Figurski]] as specialist, 3rd class. Furthermore the rank of specialist, 2nd class was mentioned by writer [[Bradley Thompson]] in the [[Battlestar_Wiki:Official_Communiques/Archive7#Chief_Tyrol_.26_his_.27Knuckledragger_Crew.27.2C_Will_we_see_more.3F|Official Communiques]]. This indicates that there are three subdivisions for this rank which are used in the scripts. However, these ranks have not been used in dialogue yet and only a single rank insignia for specialists has been established so far.</ref> || Corporal <ref name="corporal">'''Lance Corporal''': The rank of lance corporal is introduced in [[The Oath"]] with Eduardo Maldonado, however, no insignia is ever shown, and the new pin chart doesn't seem to have a separate rank device for it, it's unclear whether this is a mistake on the part of the writing staff or whether it is intended to be a separate rank.</ref>
| Cally Henderson (Miniseries-Season 3), [[Socinus]], [[Prosna]], [[Venner]] (CMC), Galen Tyrol (Season 4)
|-
| Crewman <ref name="crewman">'''Crewman''': Many sources, including Ron Moore's blog, refer to this rank as "deckhand." However, more recent internal documents reveal the rank to be "crewman."</ref> || Private First Class
| [[Scott Kelso]] (CMC), [[Stewart Jaffee]] (CMC)
|-
| Crewman Apprentice || Private
| [[Sykes]] (CMC)
|-
|}

==Insignia==

{| class="messagebox" cellspacing="4" cellpadding="4"
|-
| colspan="5" class="infoboxheader" | '''Senior Commissioned Officer'''
|-
| [[Image:NBSG-AdmiralPin1.jpg]]
| [[Image:NBSG-AdmiralPin.jpg]]
| [[Image:NBSG-CommanderPin.jpg]]
| [[Image:NBSG-ColonelPin.jpg]]
| [[Image:NBSG-LtColonelPin.jpg]]
|-
| '''Admiral''' <ref name="adm"/>
| '''Rear Admiral''' <ref name="ra"/>
| '''Commander'''
| '''Colonel'''
| '''Lieutenant Colonel''' <ref name="LtCol"/>
|-
| colspan="5" class="infoboxheader" | '''Junior Commissioned Officer'''
|-
| [[Image:NBSG-MajorPin.jpg]]
| [[Image:NBSG-CaptainPin.jpg]]
| [[Image:NBSG-LTsgPin.jpg]]
| [[Image:NBSG-LTjgPin.jpg|-]]
|
|-
| '''Major <ref name="Major"/>'''
| '''Captain'''
| '''Lieutenant'''
| '''Junior Lieutenant/ Ensign'''<ref>'''Junior Lieutenant/Ensign Rank Device''': The use of junior lieutenant insignia for the rank of ensign in episodes like "[[Scar]]" and "[[Dirty Hands]]" is a costuming necessity, as the production staff never created a separate pin for the ensign rank.</ref>
|-
| colspan="5" class="infoboxheader" | '''Warrant Officer'''
|-
| [[Image:NBSG-WOPin.jpg]]
|-
| '''Warrant Officer''' <ref name="warrant"/>
|-
| colspan="5" class="infoboxheader" | '''Senior Enlisted/Non-Commissioned Officer'''
|-
| [[Image:NBSG-MCPOPin.JPG‎]]
| [[Image:NBSG-CPOPin.jpg]]
| [[Image:NBSG-PO1Pin.jpg]]
| [[Image:NBSG-CrewSGTPin.jpg]]
|-
| '''Master Chief Petty Officer(CF)/ Sergeant Major (CMC)'''<ref>'''Master Chief/Sergeant Major Rank Device''': The rank device for master chief petty officer/sergeant major has never been worn on-screen as such, but the design is part of the civilian flight wings worn by the pilot of Colonial One.</ref>
| '''Chief Petty Officer (CF)/ Gunnery Sergeant (CMC)'''
| '''Petty Officer 1st Class (CF)/ Sergeant First Class (CMC)''' <ref name="sfc"/>
| '''Petty Officer 2nd Class (CF)/ Crew Sergeant (CMC)'''
|
|-
| colspan="5" class="infoboxheader" | '''Junior Enlisted Personnel'''
|-
| [[Image:NBSG-CrewSpecPin.jpg]]
| [[Image:NBSG-CrewmanPin.JPG]]
| [[Image:NBSG-CrewmanAppPin.jpg]]
|
|
|-
| '''Crew Specialist (CF)/ Corporal (CMC) <ref name="corporal"/>'''
| '''Crewman (CF)/ Private First Class (CMC)'''
| '''Crewman Apprentice (CF)/ Private (CMC) <ref>'''Crewman Apprentice/Private''': These insignia have not yet been shown on-screen, but are found in production materials.</ref>'''
|
|
|}

These pictures were created by Jim Stevenson a.k.a. "137th Gebirg". With more recent device created by members of the battle star wiki community using his original designs as templates.

Senior officers' ranks can also be identified by the color of the piping on their [[Uniforms (RDM)|uniforms]]. The rank for lieutenant colonel is depicted as worn by Jack Fisk in "Razor", although the same insignia has also been worn by others with the simple junior officer white piping.<ref name="LtCol"/>

==Production images==

<gallery caption="Senior Commissioned Officers" widths="115px" heights="103px" perrow="4">
Image:Insignia_Admiral.jpg|Admiral
Image:Insignia_Commander.jpg|Commander
Image:Insignia_Colonel.jpg|Colonel
Image:Insignia_Lieutenant_Colonel.jpg|Lieutenant Colonel
</gallery>
<gallery caption="Junior Commissioned Officers" widths="115px" heights="103px" perrow="4">
Image:Insignia_Major.jpg|Major
Image:Insignia_Captain.jpg|Captain
Image:Insignia_Lieutenant.jpg|Lieutenant
Image:Insignia_Ensign.jpg|Jr. Lieutenant/ Ensign
</gallery>
<gallery caption="Warrant Officer" widths="115px" heights="103px" perrow="4">
Image:Insignia_Warrant_officer.jpg|Warrant Officer
</gallery>
<gallery caption="Senior Enlisted Personnel/Non-Commissioned Officers" widths="115px" heights="103px" perrow="4">
Image:Insignia_Crew_Master_Chief.jpg|Master Chief (CF)
Image:Insignia_Crew_Senior_Chief.jpg|Senior Chief (CF)
Image:Insignia_Sergeant_First_Class.jpg|Sergeant First Class (CMC)
Image:Insignia_Sergeant.jpg|Crew Sergeant (CMC)
</gallery>
<gallery caption="Junior Enlisted Personnel" widths="115px" heights="103px" perrow="4">
Image:Insignia_Crew_Specialist.jpg| Specialist (CF)
Image:Insignia_Crewman.jpg|Crewman (CF)
Image:Insignia_Crewman_Apprentice.jpg|Crewman Apprentice (CF)
</gallery>

As mentioned above some of these ranks differ from that listed elsewhere on Battlestar Wiki for practicality purposes. In addition it is important to remember that each enlisted device corresponds to two ranks: the colonial fleet version and its colonial marine corps rank equivalent.

==Official Statements==
*In a [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/02/index.html#a000020 blog entry] on February 19, 2005 Ronald Moore gave a little insight into the rank structure of Battlestar Galactica:
<blockquote>"What is the rank structure? It doesn't seem consistant [sic] with the Navy." 
'''
The rank structure is derived from the original series. I didn't want to change Commander Adama to Captain Adama or Colonel Tigh to Commander Tigh, so I elected to simply embrace the co-mingled nature of the original rank structure. For our internal purposes, we've decided that the ranks are indeed a mixture of naval and army nomenclature and are basically as follows: 
'''
Officers:
*Admiral
*Commander
*Colonel
*Major
*Captain
*Lieutenant
*Lieutenant Junior Grade
*Ensign
'''
Enlisted:
*Master Chief Petty Officer
*Chief Petty Officer
*Petty Officer (1st, 2nd Class)
*Specialist
*Deck Hand
*Recruit
'''
Just to complicate matters further, there are also Marines aboard ''Galactica'' which conform more closely to the traditional enlisted Marine ranks, with Sergeants, Sergeant-Majors (sic), etc. Unresolved is the question of whether the Marine officers would also adhere to the mixed rank structure (which sounds odd) or if they are strictly army equivalents (which makes no sense given that the "Navy" ranks seem oblivious to there being any such distinction). Aren't you glad you asked?</blockquote>

==See Also==
* [[Uniforms (RDM)]] - Uniforms of the [[Re-imagined Series]].
* [[Insignia (RDM)]] - Additional insignia and patches for uniforms in the Re-Imagined Series.
* [[Military Ranks (TOS)]] - Ranks of the [[Original Series]].

==External Links==

[http://www.galactica.tv/battlestar-galactica-2003---news/rank-insignia-and-symbolism-analysis-for-battlestar-galactica-2003-update.html A detailed analysis] of ''Battlestar Galactica'''s uniform devices by Jim Stevenson. Also the source for this article's images.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Militärische Ränge (RDM)]]

Mercury class battlestar

2010-04-02T03:54:15Z

Rjinswand:

:''For the unnamed original class, to which ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' belongs, see [[Galactica type battlestar|''Galactica'' type battlestar]].''
{{Ship Data|
|image= Pegasus High Res.jpg
| title= ''Mercury'' class battlestar
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= Unknown approx 2500 (Full crew)
| role= Capital battleship/carrier
| weapons= 34 Primary [[KEW|Kinetic Energy Weapons]] (30 twin turrets, 4 fixed twin mounts) and point-defense [[KEW|Kinetic Energy Weapons]], conventional missiles, nuclear warheads, Vipers, Raptors
| length= {{Feet2Meters|5872}}<ref>[http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2009/04/05/how-big-was-the-colony/#comment-2193 Blog comment] by [[Adam "Mojo" Lebowitz]].</ref>
| status= Final known ship of this class destroyed at the [[Battle of New Caprica]]
}}

'''''Mercury'' class battlestars''' are advanced Colonial capital warships/carriers of the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]], top-of-the-line vessels at the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]

==Overview==
Introduced some years after the First [[Cylon War]], the structural design of the ''Mercury'' class differs significantly from the original ''Galactica'' type battlestar. The "neck" section is smaller, and the ''Mercury'' class features eight [[sublight]] engine pods instead of the older class's six. Its edges are more angular, and the hull is more completely armored (no exposed ribs). Each [[flight pod]] consists of two stacked landing bays with adjoined decks and hangars, which along with computer-assisted landings results in a faster Viper recovery rate. These pods are fixed and do not retract when executing an [[FTL| FTL jump]] ([[TRS]]: "[[The Captain's Hand]]"), suggesting advances in jump systems. Inside, the class features automated sliding doorways, basic computer recognition stations in vital areas, and networked computer systems.

An example of this class, ''Pegasus'', carries a complement of 50 Raptors and 200 [[Viper Mark VII]] fighters (8 squadrons and two reserve squadrons color coded blue, red, green, yellow, orange, purple, black, white, and reserve squadrons gold and silver) <ref>Intelligence Debrief: Cylon Basestar, "Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine," June/July 2006, page 56.</ref>.

[[Battery|Gun batteries]] on the ''Mercury'' class are distributed all over the ship ([[TRS]]: "[[The Captain's Hand]]"), with the greatest concentration of large turrets found along the side of the ship, within the valley created by the upper and lower halves of the hull, and along the flight pods. Four are mounted on the underside of the upper hull on the ship's bow, below which sits four non-turreted large guns; these form the main forward batteries. Six turrets are mounted on each underside of the alligator head, grouped in pairs. There are also three turrets on the side of each flight pod along two more turrets are mounted on the front and back of each flight pod. This amounts to a total of thirty-four main gun batteries. The turreted guns of the ''Mercury'' class have a higher rate of fire than ''Galactica's'' turreted guns when operating in flak mode, demonstrated during the skirmish with the [[Raider (RDM)|Cylon War-era Raiders]] in [[Razor]].

The standard crew complement of a ''Mercury'' class battlestar is in excess of 2,500 ([[TRS]]: "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", "[[Razor]]"), a small number for a ship its size made possible by [[Computers in the Re-imagined Series|computer]] automation.

The ''Mercury'' class battlestar has production facilities to build new [[Viper (RDM)|Viper Mark VIIs]] from basic resources ([[TRS]]: "[[Scar]]").

== Known ''Mercury'' class battlestars ==
*Battlestar [[Pegasus]]
== Notes ==
[[Image:Pegasus-Comparison.png|right|thumb|Comparison of [[Battlestar (TOS)|original series battlestar]] and ''Mercury'' class]]
The shape of the ''Mercury'' class resembles the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] [[battlestar (TOS)|battlestar]] more than the Re-imagined Series' ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. Its engine pods number eight, compared to ''Galactica'''s six engine pods. The pods aboard the ''Mercury'' class battlestar appear more directly integrated with its rear section, and its flight pods share the original angular shape.

The visual effects artist of the re-imagined ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', Jose A. Perez, has commented that, "The new design was somewhat of a cross between the look of the [[TOS|original-series]] [[battlestar (TOS)|battlestars]], and yet with elements of the [[Galactica (RDM)|new one]]. Aside from that, it has mostly hull plating (to absorb more damage) , as opposed to the ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' which has more ribbing."
Mr. Perez also commented that, "The harder edges [ of the [[Pegasus (RDM)|''Pegasus'']] ] were intentional as well, to match the interior style of the sets more."

<gallery>
Image:Pegasus01.jpg|Fore and below
Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_1a.jpg|[[Viper (RDM)|Mark VII Vipers]] landing in port flight pod
Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_5a.jpg|[[Kinetic Energy Weapon|Batteries]] along the flight pod
</gallery>

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{sourcebox|Correspondence with Jose Perez}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Battlestars|*]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Technology (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Mercury-Klasse]]
[[es:Battlestar clase Mercury]]

Trial Tactics and Strategies

2010-04-02T03:51:13Z

Rjinswand:

'''''Trial Tactics and Strategies''''' is a book written by civil liberties attorney [[Joseph Adama]], the father of Admiral [[William Adama]] ([[TRS]]: "[[Crossroads, Part II]]").

[[Lee Adama]] quotes the following line of page 273 from the book to [[Romo Lampkin]] and [[Gaius Baltar]]:
:''Forcing a mistrial may seem of little benefit to either side, but in fact it can be a boon to the defense. The prosecution's shown their hand. At retrial the defense has all the tactical advantages and the statistical chances of an acquittal rise by twenty-five percent.''

== See Also ==
* ''[[Law and Mind: The Psychology of Legal Practice]]'', another book written by Joseph Adama.

{{Publications}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Arts]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Prozesstaktiken und -strategien]]

Interrogation drug

2010-04-02T03:47:50Z

Rjinswand:

A military '''interrogation drug'''<ref>{{bsgwiki term}}</ref> is used on [[Gaius Baltar]] after his return to ''Galactica'', once he has demonstrated that he is basically unaffected by various other interrogation techniques.

It is Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]]'s suggestion to use the drug, described as a hallucinogen that creates a high level of anxiety in the subject, generating a feeling that their survival is at stake.

The drug is injected into one of the subject's carotid arteries, which supply blood directly to the brain, and appears to take effect relatively quickly. Initially the subject is rendered unconscious, but soon awakes in a pliable state. Baltar sees himself in the midst of a dark ocean, with Adama's voice being his only lifeline.

Adama shows some skill in using this method, likely having been trained in its use. Doctor [[Cottle]], on the other hand, appears to disapprove; he terminates the session when Baltar begins to go into distress, calling it a "freak show" ([[TRS]]: "[[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]").

==Notes==
*The secret experiments with hallucinogenic drugs for purposes of interrogation parallels the [[w:Project MKULTRA|CIA's MK ULTRA]] program from the 1960s and 1970s. In that program, [[w:LSD|LSD]] was investigated as a possible "truth serum".
*Adama speaks of "drugs" in the plural, meaning that the interrogation drug is actually a mix of several compounds. If these are common drugs, it explains why ''Galactica'' has an apparently secret and experimental drug aboard.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Drugs}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Drugs]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Technology (RDM)]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
[[Category:Terminology (RDM)]]

Carmichael

2010-04-02T03:46:36Z

Rjinswand:

{{Character Data
| photo=Carmichael.jpg
| age=
| colony=
| birthname=
| callsign=
| nickname=
| seen=The Magnificent Warriors
| pseen=
| death=
| parents=
| siblings=
| children=
| marital status=
| role=Lead Agro Specialist, ''[[Agro Ship Nine]]''
| rank=
| actor=[[Olan Soulé]]
| cylon=
| mcylon=
| name=
}}

'''Carmichael''' is the Lead Agro Specialist on board the ''[[Agro Ship Nine]]''.

Carmichael informs [[Tigh (TOS)|Colonel Tigh]] that, in order to procure food to feed [[The Fleet (TOS)|the Fleet]], they would need to obtain new seeds of a variety of edible [[agro]] plants ([[TOS]]: "[[The Magnificent Warriors]]").

He is also present when [[Iblis|Count Iblis]] "miraculously" manages to grow large amounts of edible food on the agro ship. Like the rest of the Fleet, he is lead to believe that this is a "miracle" from Iblis, however it turns out to be just another trick to take the Fleet on a journey of his own evils ([[TOS]]: "[[War of the Gods]]").

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Characters (TOS)]]
[[Category:Recurring Guest Characters (TOS)]]
[[Category:TOS]]

The Colony

2010-04-01T14:20:29Z

Rjinswand:

<noinclude></noinclude>{{Ship Data
| image=Cylon colony, "Daybreak, Part II".jpg
| title= The Colony
| race= [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]]
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= [[Humanoid Cylon]]s, [[Cylon Centurion]]s, Hybrids, Cylon War-Era Centurions
| role= Cylon Homeworld
| weapons= [[Raiders (RDM)|Raiders]], Cylon War-Era Raiders, Multiple gun batteries and missle launchers
| status= Destroyed.
| img=
}}

'''The Colony''' is a large biomechanical structure similar in composition to the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]]. After the [[Cimtar Peace Accord]], the [[Final Five]] and the [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]] units (with the exception of the [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005#Guardians|Guardians]]) retreated to this place, a spaceborne Cylon homeworld ([[TRS]]: "[[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]").

==History and Use==

This structure was built around the original ship of the Final Five ([[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]] podcast). The vessel was used by [[Samuel Anders]], [[Tory Foster]], [[Ellen Tigh]], [[Saul Tigh]], and [[Galen Tyrol]] to travel to the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] from the devastated remains of [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]], backtracking the path their ancestors had taken from [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] and then following the path of the twelve tribes of humanity. At one point, the ship stopped at [[The Temple of Hopes]].

The expanded structure was "home" to the [[humanoid Cylon|humanoid]] and Centurion Cylons after the war. The eight numbered humanoid models were presumably developed by Anders, Foster, the Tighs, and Tyrol here. Their original [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]] equipment was still on the Colony ([[TRS]]: "[[No Exit]]"), as was their original sublight starship.

[[image:Colony Comparison.png|thumb|right|250px|The approximate size of ''the Colony'' compared to the [[Galactica (RDM)|Battllestar Galactica]].]]
When the Cylons prepared to [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack the Colonies]], they gathered their massive fleet here and jumped directly from The Colony to the Twelve Colonies ([[TRS]]: "[[The Plan]]").

The Colony fell into the hands of the [[Number One]]s/Cavils after they usurped the Final Five. Prior to the [[Cylon Civil War]], Cavil keeps the Colony secret ([[TRS]]: "[[No Exit]]"). Cavil moves the Colony shortly before the start of the civil war, indicating that the structure is FTL-capable ([[TRS]]: "[[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]"). It is positioned in a stable orbit inside the [[w:accretion disc|accretion disc]] of a [[w:naked singularity|naked singularity]] ([[TRS]]: "[[Daybreak, Part I]]").

The Colony serves as home base for the Ones, [[Number Four|Fours]], [[Number Five|Fives]], and [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]. [[Hera Agathon]] is brought to the Colony for experimentation, to determine what makes her a successful human-Cylon hybrid and replicate it ([[TRS]]: "[[Daybreak, Part I]]").

There are both original-model [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raider]]s (mechanical fighter craft which require pilots) and the newer autonomous Raider models inside the Colony, and both 0005 and updated Centurion units. The Colony's systems are controlled by multiple [[Hybrid]]s ([[TRS]]: "[[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]", "[[Daybreak, Part II]]"). It is armed with a large array of quadruple point defence gun batteries and missle launchers ([[TRS]]: "[[Daybreak, Part II]]").

The Colony is destroyed when [[Margaret Edmonson]]'s corpse inadvertantly launches several nukes at it from her Raptor, causing massive damage and the loss of its stable orbit around the singularity ([[TRS]]: "[[Daybreak, Part II]]").

The final battle between humans and Cylons, the [[Battle of The Colony]], takes place here when ''Galactica'' launches a rescue mission for Hera Agathon. Among the dead in the battle are numerous Centurions, at least three Dorals, three Simons, Cavil, and Boomer, as well as any who are onboard the structure when it falls into the black hole.

== Notes ==
{{sourcebox|Cylon homeworld}}
*When Ron D. Moore was questioned why the "Cylon POV episode", "[[Downloaded]]", took place on Cylon-occupied Caprica instead of the Cylon homeworld in an interview with [http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/3206/2/ Now Playing Magazine] on February 23, 2006, he stated that the series will probably not show that planet any time in the forseeable future, explaining that:

::"That episode ("[[Downloaded]]") will not have that, and we still don’t have any plans to do that...My instinct is kind of not to go there. I feel like I don’t have a great clear vision of it; at this point if we tried to do something there it would look very familiar and not as interesting as it is in your imagination."

:Moore goes on to say that he felt it was more exciting when left to the imagination, because "It still has to be a place where bipedal creatures can walk around and do things": Presumably, it has to be able to support the humanoid Cylons, who are near-human enough that their home environment would be fairly similar to a human one, and not drastically exotic.

*In the podcast for ''Islanded in a Stream of Stars'' Moore states that originally the writers had an idea that the Cylons had a homeworld they informally called 'Cylonia' but, for the reasons mentioned above, they decided not to visit it. The notion for the Colony as the Cylon homeworld instead came up during the writing of Season 4.

== Related Imagery ==

<gallery>
Image:Cylon World-Ship (The Colony).jpg|The Colony up close (TRS: "[[Islanded In A Stream Of Stars]]").
Image:Cylon World-Ship (Interior).jpg|Older-model Raiders within the Colony.
Image:Colony Breech.jpg|''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' rams herself into ''The Colony'' during the [[Battle of the Colony]].
Image:Colony Overview.jpg|A zoom out of the Colony, shortly before its demise
</gallery>

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Ships}}
{{Template:Characters (RDM Cylons)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylon Military]]
[[Category:Cylon Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Descriptive terms]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[de:Die Kolonie]]

The Colony

2010-04-01T14:18:46Z

Rjinswand:

<noinclude></noinclude>{{Ship Data
| image=Cylon colony, "Daybreak, Part II".jpg
| title= The Colony
| race= [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]]
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= [[Humanoid Cylon]]s, [[Cylon Centurion]]s, Hybrids, Cylon War-Era Centurions
| role= Cylon Homeworld
| weapons= [[Raiders (RDM)|Raiders]], Cylon War-Era Raiders, Multiple gun batteries and missle launchers
| status= Destroyed.
| img=
}}

'''The Colony''' is a large biomechanical structure similar in composition to the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]]. After the [[Cimtar Peace Accord]], the [[Final Five]] and the [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]] units (with the exception of the [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005#Guardians|Guardians]]) retreated to this place, a spaceborne Cylon homeworld (TRS: "[[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]").

==History and Use==

This structure was built around the original ship of the Final Five ([[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]] podcast). The vessel was used by [[Samuel Anders]], [[Tory Foster]], [[Ellen Tigh]], [[Saul Tigh]], and [[Galen Tyrol]] to travel to the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] from the devastated remains of [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]], backtracking the path their ancestors had taken from [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] and then following the path of the twelve tribes of humanity. At one point, the ship stopped at [[The Temple of Hopes]].

The expanded structure was "home" to the [[humanoid Cylon|humanoid]] and Centurion Cylons after the war. The eight numbered humanoid models were presumably developed by Anders, Foster, the Tighs, and Tyrol here. Their original [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]] equipment was still on the Colony (TRS: "[[No Exit]]"), as was their original sublight starship.

[[image:Colony Comparison.png|thumb|right|250px|The approximate size of ''the Colony'' compared to the [[Galactica (RDM)|Battllestar Galactica]].]]
When the Cylons prepared to [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack the Colonies]], they gathered their massive fleet here and jumped directly from The Colony to the Twelve Colonies (TRS: "[[The Plan]]").

The Colony fell into the hands of the [[Number One]]s/Cavils after they usurped the Final Five. Prior to the [[Cylon Civil War]], Cavil keeps the Colony secret (TRS: "[[No Exit]]"). Cavil moves the Colony shortly before the start of the civil war, indicating that the structure is FTL-capable (TRS: "[[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]"). It is positioned in a stable orbit inside the [[w:accretion disc|accretion disc]] of a [[w:naked singularity|naked singularity]] (TRS: "[[Daybreak, Part I]]").

The Colony serves as home base for the Ones, [[Number Four|Fours]], [[Number Five|Fives]], and [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]. [[Hera Agathon]] is brought to the Colony for experimentation, to determine what makes her a successful human-Cylon hybrid and replicate it (TRS: "[[Daybreak, Part I]]").

There are both original-model [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raider]]s (mechanical fighter craft which require pilots) and the newer autonomous Raider models inside the Colony, and both 0005 and updated Centurion units. The Colony's systems are controlled by multiple [[Hybrid]]s (TRS: "[[Islanded in a Stream of Stars]]", "[[Daybreak, Part II]]"). It is armed with a large array of quadruple point defence gun batteries and missle launchers ([TRS: "[Daybreak, Part II]]").

The Colony is destroyed when [[Margaret Edmonson]]'s corpse inadvertantly launches several nukes at it from her Raptor, causing massive damage and the loss of its stable orbit around the singularity (TRS: "[[Daybreak, Part II]]").

The final battle between humans and Cylons, the [[Battle of The Colony]], takes place here when ''Galactica'' launches a rescue mission for Hera Agathon. Among the dead in the battle are numerous Centurions, at least three Dorals, three Simons, Cavil, and Boomer, as well as any who are onboard the structure when it falls into the black hole.

== Notes ==
{{sourcebox|Cylon homeworld}}
*When Ron D. Moore was questioned why the "Cylon POV episode", "[[Downloaded]]", took place on Cylon-occupied Caprica instead of the Cylon homeworld in an interview with [http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/3206/2/ Now Playing Magazine] on February 23, 2006, he stated that the series will probably not show that planet any time in the forseeable future, explaining that:

::"That episode ("[[Downloaded]]") will not have that, and we still don’t have any plans to do that...My instinct is kind of not to go there. I feel like I don’t have a great clear vision of it; at this point if we tried to do something there it would look very familiar and not as interesting as it is in your imagination."

:Moore goes on to say that he felt it was more exciting when left to the imagination, because "It still has to be a place where bipedal creatures can walk around and do things": Presumably, it has to be able to support the humanoid Cylons, who are near-human enough that their home environment would be fairly similar to a human one, and not drastically exotic.

*In the podcast for ''Islanded in a Stream of Stars'' Moore states that originally the writers had an idea that the Cylons had a homeworld they informally called 'Cylonia' but, for the reasons mentioned above, they decided not to visit it. The notion for the Colony as the Cylon homeworld instead came up during the writing of Season 4.

== Related Imagery ==

<gallery>
Image:Cylon World-Ship (The Colony).jpg|The Colony up close (TRS: "[[Islanded In A Stream Of Stars]]").
Image:Cylon World-Ship (Interior).jpg|Older-model Raiders within the Colony.
Image:Colony Breech.jpg|''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' rams herself into ''The Colony'' during the [[Battle of the Colony]].
Image:Colony Overview.jpg|A zoom out of the Colony, shortly before its demise
</gallery>

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Ships}}
{{Template:Characters (RDM Cylons)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylon Military]]
[[Category:Cylon Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Descriptive terms]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[de:Die Kolonie]]

Mars Day

2010-03-29T07:01:21Z

Rjinswand: /* Notes */ jupiter is roman, zeus is greek. zarek calls adama zeus, "eye of jupiter" was clumsily ADRed in that one time, etc., etc.

'''Mars Day''' is the name of a day in the [[Colonial calendar]]. It was named after the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|Colonial God of War]] ([[TRS]]: "[[Occupation]]").

==Notes==
*It is not clearly stated whether or not Mars Day is a specific holiday or just the name of a weekday. However, in [[Caprica (series)|"Caprica"]] the use of real-world day names is established and one similarly named holiday, [[Eros Day]], is mentioned.
*The use of the name "Mars" is somewhat unusual in terms of Colonial relgious history. "Mars" is the Roman name of the Greek God of War, Ares. Colonials have been shown to usually use the Greek names of their deities. However, Jupiter and Mercury have been mentioned in other episodes as well.
*In French and other [[w:Romance languages|romance languages]], the name for Tuesday derives from the latin "Martis dies" (literally, "Mars' Day"). The English name derives from "Tyr", the Norse equivalent of Mars.

{{TRS Holidays}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial History (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Mars-Tag]]

Battlestar Wiki:Galactipedians Quorum

2010-03-29T01:46:31Z

Rjinswand: /* The Caprican - Will We, Won't We */

{{Template:Archive-bot
|maxarchivesize = 32K
|counter = 6
|algo = old(14d)
|archive = Battlestar Wiki:Galactipedians Quorum/Archive%(counter)d
}}

{{Project|Wikipedian Quorum|image=BSG WIKI Quorum.png|shortcut=BW:GQ BW:WQ}}

[[Battlestar Wiki:Welcome, newcomers|Welcome, newcomers]] and baffled oldtimers! If you have a question about [[Battlestar Wiki]] and how it works, please place it '''at the bottom of the list''', and someone will attempt to answer it for you. (If you have a question about life, the universe and everything, go to the [[Battlestar Wiki:reference desk|reference desk]] instead.)

Before asking a question, check if it's answered by the [[Battlestar Wiki:FAQ]] or other pages linked from [[Battlestar Wiki:Help]].

Before answering a newcomer's question abruptly, consider rereading [[BW:BITE|Please do not bite the newcomers]].

Questions and answers will not remain on this page indefinitely (otherwise it would very soon become too long to be editable). After a period of time with no further activity, information will be moved to other relevant sections of Battlestar Wiki (such as the FAQ pages) or placed in one of the Wikipedian Quorum archives if it is of general interest, or deleted. Please consider dating and titling your discussions so as to facilitate this.

{{newsection link}}

{{ArchiveTOC}}

== Rewrote [[:Council Security]] ==

I did a pretty much total rewrite of [[:Council Security]]. Hope it passes muster. — [[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]] [[[User talk:SMcCandlish|talk]]] [[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|cont]]] ‹(-¿-)› 10:35, 8 February 2008 (CST)
:Looks good in general. Nice details of their appearances. Though we generally write the article bodies themselves from a strictly in-universe perspective and confine real-world references to notes (unless it's an article dealing with an obvious real-world subject of course). -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:45, 8 February 2008 (CST)
::Yeah, I re-read the policy on that last night (after like 3 months); will re-re-write the article so that the real-world stuff is in the Notes section, unless someone has beat me to it. — [[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]] [[[User talk:SMcCandlish|talk]]] [[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|cont]]] ‹(-¿-)› 02:47, 9 February 2008 (CST)
:::I removed it. It was mainly about the comparisons to the US police or Secret Service. The article is fine without that. Saying things like "In episode so and so they did..." is ok if it can't be avoided. Since the article partly deals with their different depiction in various episodes, that's appropriate in this case. So a completely re-write isn't really necessary. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:54, 9 February 2008 (CST)

== "Spoiler follows, highlight to read" ==

Does anybody else find the "highlight to read" style distracting and kind of unprofessional? Why can't we just use a little CSS to make a pop-down spoiler box:

<div class="NavFrame" style="border-style: none; padding: 0px;"><div class="NavHead" style=" text-align: left; padding: 0px;">'''Spoiler follows'''</div><div class="NavContent" style="display: none; text-align: left; padding: 0px;"><div style="text-align:left; border: 1px solid #ffffff; padding: 2px; margin-top: 2px;">Adama is a cylon!</div></div></div>

(This is GFDL code from Wikipedia, I can copy it over to a template and give credit where it's due.) [[User:Evan|Evan]] 16:59, 20 March 2008 (CDT)

: I don't see any problem with this. :) What does everyone else think? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:17, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
::Format's pages wrong. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:40, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
::: In what way? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:11, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
::::Colours don't work in BsgMonoBook, alignment is off in BsgBook, I don't see anything wrong in the default skin though. [[User:Evan|Evan]] 18:22, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
::::Nvm, the colours work in MonoBook. Actually I don't see anything wrong in any of the skins. [[User:Evan|Evan]] 18:38, 20 March 2008 (CDT)

::If it doesn't screw anything up, this would be far better than the highlight thing we have now. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:54, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
::::The drop down does not format on lists correct. Like before, it would create a new line and interrupt the list numbers. Also, from our previous discussion on javascript expanding boxes in the middle of episodes pages (which are not at the top), templates that expand huge things of text change the entire format of the page layout when they expand. Images get shifted and it creates an unnesseary new lines that were not there before. It's always 100% width. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:30, 21 March 2008 (CDT)

OK, the template is created as [[:Template:Spoilerbox]], add it if you like. I'm not going to replace the existing spoilers since... I don't want to be spoiled :) [[User:Evan|Evan]] 07:39, 21 March 2008 (CDT)
:Nice template. Less is more for me on some pages, especially now. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:42, 21 March 2008 (CDT)
::Uh, one question...what's the input format for the template? I can't glean that from the description. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:45, 21 March 2008 (CDT)
:::I've updated the page, but the syntax is {{tlp|spoilerbox|This is a spoiler! Muhahahahha!}}. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 13:55, 21 March 2008 (CDT)
::I like the idea, but I'm not sure it's universally better than the current method... Especially if it will create problems like Shane mentioned. As dumb as it seems, I think the current method does have some advantages: Depending on how someone highlights the spoiler, they can control how much of the spoiler is revealed. Also, people can gauge how much content the spoiler contains just by looking at the amount of unreadable text. --[[User:Galjamspe|Galjamspe]] 00:40, 22 March 2008 (CDT)

== Proposition for new article ==

Hi! Quite new here, and since I don't find a button for creating a new article, I figure I must go through the Quorum?

I'd love it if we could open a small article for adding notice for Caprica Six's unborn baby.
There's no actual article for this person yet, and I have to write my mentions about it, in already existing articles like Gaius Baltar's and Caprica Six's.

Thanks for the attention! {{unsigned|Iniovan}}

: Do we really know anything about the baby enough to write an article? At this point, we just know that Caprica-Six is pregnant and that the father is Saul. Other than that... any analysis on it could probably fit in the episode guides. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:28, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

== Question on editing etiquette ==

Hi,

I'm a newbie here. So this is a question so I can hopefully avoid stepping on anyone's toes. If you see an existing article and wish to add to the information and content, would it always be best to ask the original contributor before doing so? Especially if to do so, I would have to move some items around in the original article.

For example, I want to put in a new reference to supplement the article, however, it would need to go before an existing article, requiring renumbering of all of the references.

I'm just trying to get a feel of what is good editing and bad editing before I put foot in mouth.

thanks!
Jeff Rabb
:In a word, no. In addition to greatly slowing down the ability for the community to keep things up to date, it also ignores the fact that once you hit "save page" your edits become community property. There really isn't an "ownership" of articles, outside of perhaps articles in the "User" namespace. So feel free to [[BW:BOLD|be bold]] and get in those edits. If somebody takes issue with your edits they can either change it back themselves, take it up in the talk page of the article in question, and/or potentially bring it up on your talk page. New references are almost always welcome, as they're the glue that binds this place together. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 23:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice!
Jeff

== How Can This Not Be Canonical? ==

On the [[unnamed battlestars]] page, there is section dealing with the [[Berserk Class Escort]]. A notation notes the specific information on this class of ship is non-canonical. Presumably because it comes from the ship designer's own website vs that from one of the sanctioned websites or sources. But the ship WAS used in [[Razor]]. So how can one on one hand use it in the show and on the other hand say that any specific information on it from it's creator is non-canonical simply because TPTB never bothered to put it with a sanctioned source? It either is or isn't in my book. I'm sure this discussion has arisen many times before, but I'd like to find out the final arguement that finally determined why this source, which straddles the line, should be excluded as non-sanctioned? Jeff Rabb
:The ship described on the website is on the show, but canon starts from the aired content and trickles down from there. So while we do see the ship, we aren't given any in-show identification of the ship. Also, there's nothing from the producers on the matter. However... the information coming from "crew" does seem to place it somewhere in category 3 in the [[BW:CITE|source hierarchy]], so it should have some weight (IMO). Anyway, I can see where the note was coming from (in that none of the information about the name of the ship, etc., came from any aired info or from RDM, etc), but I think you've got a decent argument. Given Joe's edit to the article, it appears he at least checked out the source website enough to correct the spelling to match it. Personally, I'd consider replacing the "canon" note and just replace it with a reference pointing to Chu's website. I do have to agree that it's not necessarily a battlestar, and in fact given the escort designation it's likely not a battlestar. Battleships don't "escort" battleships, and likewise with aircraft carriers. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 01:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

== The Caprican - Will We, Won't We ==

Hello all,

Very, very new here. I'm wondering if the contents of the newzine "The Caprican" will be included in info on the Caprica series?

It's been really great to read it, and join in the group that's been posting in character. I wouldn't think that the comments would be included as material, but the actual articles seem like they're going to be good fodder for Colonial life in general.

Thanks!
Glasswalker33

: I think we need to be very clear that whatever is in "The Caprican" isn't necessarily canon. If that's done, I have no qualm about including it, since it is put out officially by the SyFy Channel. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:36, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

::As I am new to this website, I was looking for an answer to this question (that, and regarding whether we will include the information from Serge's Twitter account). How should we distinguish it is not "necessarily canon" - a separate non-canon section of a particular article, just note information in the background info./notes or just include it in the main article until it is contradicted? --[[User:JamiLeeD|JamiLeeD]] 23:45, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

:::Everything's been canonical so far, including things first mentioned in The Caprican that appear onscreen days or weeks later. The latest example being Eros Day, which was mentioned in The Caprican a month ago and on the card in "End of Line". -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:52, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

::::Also, the rather ominous note about new railings on the Pantheon Bridge appeared weeks ahead of End of Line: http://showblogs.syfy.com/caprican/news/pantheon-bridge-getting-new-safety-measures.php Other things that appeaned in the Caprican before they showed up on the show were Vesta, the terror alert being raised (which was a plot point in End of Line-- it was why they couldn't get Zoebot off-planet for another week), and (if I'm remembering right) v-date. Clearly whoever writes it is involved with the production of the show. -- [[User:Rjinswand|Rjinswand]] 01:46, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

== Question....Original Series ==

My teacher gave a clue to his laptop password...its "Three that was detroyed" from TOS
can anyone tell me what it means?
I tried D'Anna, Xena, And Six of one, none of the worked {{unsigned|Snarky}}

: "Three that was destroyed..." Hmm... Might be referring to a lot of things, actually. Like "Zac," the third child of Adama's that was killed in the pilot. Could be "Serina" too... I think your teacher needs to be a bit more specific. "Three" of what? Is "three" a specific thing, or does "three" mean a quantity? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:29, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

== Color of links to other wikis ==
I'm not quite sure this is the right place to ask this. I find a bit confusing that links to other wikis (e.g. Wikipedia, Memory Alpha) share their color with battlestarwiki links. I think its cool to link to other wikis at times, for example to give real world perspectives on some matters but I'd like to directly know if a link leads me away from this site. Maybe another shade of yellow/orange could be used? -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 22:12, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
: Hmm... We could do that. I'd like to get everyone's impression on it though. I might tweet this so we can get some idea of what people think. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 22:17, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Just to illustrate my point (and bring the discussion up again): Most of you are probably aware of this but I think [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Ronald_D._Moore Memory Alpha] is a very good example for what I mean. The color of non-MA links is only slightly darker but it makes it very easy to spot them. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 19:51, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

I am very much in support of this, I keep on getting sent to Memory Alpha or wherever when I don't really want to be. -- [[User:Rjinswand|Rjinswand]] 20:49, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Talk:List of Actors that have Played Multiple Roles/Archive 1

2010-03-27T05:22:17Z

Rjinswand: /* End of Line */ new section

== List of characters that were portrayed by multiple actors ==
How about that? (examples off the top of my hat: Amanda, Bill, Carolanne, Darius, Ellen, Helena, Kara, Zak, Zoe) --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 10:14, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
: I'm fine with this. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 13:30, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

== End of Line ==

According to Bear McCreary's blog, [[Alessandro Juliani]] was the male singer on the operatic piece of music in the final sequence. Does that count as a role? The whole thing starts off as source music so I suppose it could be argued that he's playing the part of some Caprican opera singer...

Also apparently the actress who played Hadrian was the Defense Ministry official, but I don't know the official's name is so I guess I can't add her yet. D: -- [[User:Rjinswand|Rjinswand]] 05:22, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Vesta

2010-03-27T04:09:31Z

Rjinswand: fixing cats to match other gamers

'''Vesta''' is a [[Virtual world|v-world]] gamer who plays primarily in ''[[New Cap City]]''. After noticing that [[Tamara-A]] doesn't derez when shot, she promises to help Tamara "wake up" from v-world in return her help in stealing the avatar and in-game financial assets of [[Chiron]], Vesta's ''New Cap City'' rival.

Tamara and [[Heracles]] do as they are asked, but by the time they come to Vesta to report their success, Vesta has realized that [[Tamara Adams]] died in the [[Lev]] bombing some time ago, and cannot "wake up" from v-world. Tamara proceeds to gun Vesta and her coterie of followers down, derezing and presumably permanently ejecting them from ''New Cap City''.

==Notes==
Vesta shares her name with the [[wikipedia:Vesta (mythology)|Roman virgin goddess]] of the hearth, home, and family.

{{stub}}

[[Category: Characters]]
[[Category: Caprica (series)]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category: V-world Gamers]]

Chiron

2010-03-27T04:09:19Z

Rjinswand: fixing cats to match other gamers

: ''For the ship with the similar name, see:'' [[Chrion]].

{{Character Data
|series=Caprica
|photo=
|age=
|colony=
|callsign=
|seen= There Is Another Sky
|pseen=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Gamer
|rank=
|actor= [[AC Peterson]]
|sortkey=
}}

'''Chiron''' is gamer who plays a powerful mob leader in ''[[New Cap City]]''. At the behest of his rival [[Vesta]], his [[avatar]] and in-game bank account are stolen by [[Tamara-A]] and [[Heracles]]. Vesta usurps Chiron's position in ''New Cap City'' before she herself is gunned down by Tamara, but the fate of Chiron himself is unknown.

==Notes==
Chiron shares his name with a [[wikipedia:Chiron|centaur]] in Greek mythology.

{{stub}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: Characters]]
[[Category: Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category: Caprica (series)]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category: V-world Gamers]]

Evelyn Adama

2010-03-27T02:59:19Z

Rjinswand: close parenthesis

{{Character Data
|photo=
|age=
|colony=
|seen= The Reins of a Waterfall
|pseen=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Assistant to [[Joseph Adama]]
|actor=[[Teryl Rothery]]
|sortkey=Evelyn
}}

'''Evelyn''' is [[Joseph Adama]]'s assistant ([[CAP]]: "[[The Reins of a Waterfall]]"). She adopts the guise of [[Emmanuelle]] to serve as Adama's guide as he searched for his daughter [[Tamara-A|Tamara]] in [[New Cap City]]. She eventually finds Tamara on her own, and convinces her to kill her father's New Cap City avatar in attempt to force him to leave [[v-world]] and put his life back together ([[CAP]]: "[[End of Line]]").

{{stub}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Characters (Caprica)]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:Caprica (series)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Evelyn Adama

2010-03-27T02:54:10Z

Rjinswand:

{{Character Data
|photo=
|age=
|colony=
|seen= The Reins of a Waterfall
|pseen=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Assistant to [[Joseph Adama]]
|actor=[[Teryl Rothery]]
|sortkey=Evelyn
}}

'''Evelyn''' is [[Joseph Adama]]'s assistant ([[The Reins of a Waterfall]]). She adopts the guise of [[Emmanuelle]] to serve as Adama's guide as he searched for his daughter [[Tamara-A|Tamara] in [[New Cap City]]. She eventually finds Tamara on her own, and convinces her to kill her father's New Cap City avatar in attempt to force him to leave [[v-world]] and put his life back together.

{{stub}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Characters (Caprica)]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:Caprica (series)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:The Twelve Colonies of Kobol/Archive3

2010-03-24T08:53:40Z

Rjinswand: /* Picture descriptions + main picture */

{{Template:Archive-bot
|maxarchivesize = 32K
|counter = 2
|algo = old(10d)
|archive = Talk:The Twelve Colonies (RDM)/Archive%(counter)d
}}
{{ArchiveTOC}}

== Merge proposal ==

This article, and the articles for each of the Twelve Colonies, are all very short, and I don't see any of them expanding substantially in the near future. I think it would make for a nice looking, meaty article if we merged in each of the individual colony articles with this one under first-level headings. How say you all? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:50, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

I know this looks weird and kind of dumb. I'm still fiddling. It's easy to revert if the whole thing ends up being too hideous to bear. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:17, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

[[image:Banner_unknown1.gif|left|75px]][[image:Banner_unknown2.gif|right|75px]]
: I like the idea and whats up now. If we knew more about each colony, it would look nicer, but until then I think this is fine. Now... What to do with these other two banners? Now, the two colonies without banners are Leo and Aquarius, the lion and the water-bearer. Both of these symbols could be a water-bearer, I guess, but I think the black and white one looks like he has whisters, there and that shape at the top looks more ear-like. That would leave the blue and red one to be the water bearer, which I think makes sense enough. Think we could drop those in with a note as to their speculative nature, or best not to? --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:27, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::I'm leaving this one up to [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]], our resident flag-hunter. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:32, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The two colonies without banners is Aquarius and whatever the colonial name is for Libra. I saw in the mini-series they mentioned a colony called "ICON" alongside of "PICON" so I'm a little weirded out. As for Leonis, that flag has been found. I did a picture search in google for the zodiac's constellation and found the flag's symbol looked exactly like what I have designated. I can't remember, but I believe the constellation for Libra looked quite similar to the black one. Since we don't yet know as of yet what is the name for the Libra colony, I have left it blank. [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 01:46, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:At least we know it isn't Ophiuchi or something. Roslin identifies Libra in the Tomb of Athena map room, although she doesn't give its modern name. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:59, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Realizing that it's still being worked on, it looks awful right now. You can't tell which banner goes to which colony, for one thing. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:30, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Personally, I don't really like the combination of all 12 colonies together either since there is no set border and down the road we will have pictures relating to each colony. This will make it slower to download. --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 12:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The problem, in my opinion, is that there's little to do at the main article other than simply list the colonies, and the majority of the individual colonies are stub-like in length. As for images, Caprica is the only planet we've seen thus far and probably the only one we're likely to see (unless we get Scorpion in a flashback in Pegasus or something). One thing we can do, if it becomes necessary, is link to full-length articles from just underneath the first-level headings.

:As for the banners, I agree that they could be confusing but I rather like them right now. Do either of you think it coudl be re-arranged in a better manner (maybe if they didn't alternate sides? But then there'd be a lot more wasted space)? Or is it a lost cause in your opinions? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:20, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::Yeah, you could try putting all the banners on the right. See how it looks. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 14:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::There, that's what they look like right-aligned. Frankly, I think they look better alternating. I don't find it confusing, and the wasted space bugs me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Hate to say it, but I don't like it at all. The banners overlap with the previous colony's "box", there are no clear markers indicating where one section begins and another ends, it just looks bad. (Part of the problem is that we don't have much information about many of the colonies at this point.) --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:07, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::It'd be better if we could insert a line across the entire page, and have the colony name under that line, along with the banner on the right. Then each colony would have a neat, easily readable section. I don't know if Wiki markup is capable of that though. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:10, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::::I still think it's a better option than thirteen articles that are completely insubstantial on their own. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

I added captions to some of the banners, and in the process deleted some of the <nowiki><div></nowiki> markup. Wikipedia recommends against using HTML ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_markup_with_HTML]), and I've been trying to learn from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax Extended image syntax] page. I can't figure out why a new section like <nowiki>==Caprica==</nowiki> doesn't appear on the same level as its banner. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:09, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:Ah ha! The wonders of '''<nowiki> </nowiki>'''! What do you guys think of the formatting now? --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:28, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::My HTML/CSS was not used lightly. That's really the one way to get the banners at the section heading level as I did. Frankly this seems like a more cumbersome version of my right-aligned attempt. I really dislike the caption boxes, too.
::I have a new idea: Rather than use the (rather long) banners, we can grab the icons from each, along with the background colors, and use them. I've created nine high-resolution versions from QuintusCinna's originals, which you can link to below:
::[http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/aerelon.png Aerelon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/canceron.png Canceron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/caprica.png Caprica], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/gemenon.png Gemenon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/picon.png Picon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/sagittaron.png Sagittaron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpion.png Scorpion], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/tauron.png Tauron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/virgon.png Virgon]
::These could be scaled down to almost any size and still look nice. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:35, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Without caption boxes, it's not clear what the banners are. I know it seems self-explanatory to us, but for someone who's never seen them before, it's not. I'll take a look at the icons in a bit. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 17:03, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I find repeating "This is the Banner of X" to be tedious, and the red background to be jarring. Couldn't we simply note that the banner/icon/flag/colors of the colony is provided to the right? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:06, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Peter. You've saved us all. As I said earlier, I liked it when the banner appeared to be hanging from the red line under its colony's name. I share Peter's dislike for tons of white space and alternating the sides seemed to create the least of that. However, if we just had the emblem and colors from each flag, we could do it below the red line as Fang seems to like, and not have this huge, long graphic. Maybe we can then link the full banner pics and, if we get enough information that a given colony's article wouldn't be a stub, we can display it there. Does all that make sense? --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I like it with banners to right, with titling, albeit a little redundant. Not sure how to deal with the "white space" of many areas, but we're really not going to get them filled until we get more data, so that is that. I feel it's informative enough as it stands, but I'll leave the formatting arguments alone. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:52, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

== Which flag is which? ==

A close viewing of [[Colonial Day]] indicates that the flag currently labeled as [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]] belongs to Safiya Sanne's seat - either Picon or Leonis; and that the black flag belongs to Robin Wenutu's seat (Canceron), and that VIrgon's flag is a white field with a green inner stripe and yellow outer stripe. I'm curious as to how QuintusCinna came to his conclusion that the delegates aren't seated at their apprporiate flags, since I don't know any other evidence linking particular flags to colonies. I guess Scorpion is pretty obvious, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:34, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:Don't trust the banners lining up with those they represent in [[Colonial Day]]. The reason I say this is that [[Tom Zarek]] is in one area of the room and his very obvious banner for Sagitarron is completely in another area. This is the same for Virgon's banner and their representative. There are 3 different questions I carry thanks to the shows I have watched. In the mini-series we see the banners are in this order from left to right: [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Aerelon|Aerelon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], Scorpion, Aquaria(?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]], Libra (?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]], [[Canceron]] (?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Leonis|Leonis]]. Is this in the order that the colonies signed the unification treaty or is the order for the flags random or is it in the order they were nuked? Though I am sure the producers, directors, and such just put them up in random order, it is now a sense of fact for the show. If we were to believe they were placed up there, the banners must be up there in some order that is according to military protocol for flag bearing. In Colonial Day I add 2 more questions. We see that the banners are behind the delegates in a different order than in the mini-series. This means they were either a) put up randomly or b) have a separate purpose than those shown at the end of the mini-series (nuked, treaty order, or other). Then we see that the delegates are put in a different order than the banners behind them. The Gemenon delegate is clearly seen toward the middle and the Gemenon flag is clearly in a different area. The same questions come up for the delegates: are they randomly placed or is there reason. It's not alphabetical, and placements of delegates and banners in every society is always in some sort of traditional order. I hope that the Battlestar Galactica producers, writers, and such will be able to answer this though I suspect they won't because they have REAL lives. As for the Picon flag, the constellation looks quite similar to the picon banner and the same goes for Tauron's with Taurus. I have no doubt with those. The Libra's icon can be seen in this picture [http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/HorseAstrology/AstrologySymbol.gif] 2 clockwise from Sagittarius. --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 1:12, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

== Libris = Libran? ==

Guys, gals, and bots, got this e-mail from one of our keen-eyed visitors:

: In episode 403 ?The Ties That Bind?, the Libran colony?s name is revealed in the scene with Lee Adama and Tom Zarek in the Quorum of the Twelve chambers at 18 minutes 40-43 seconds.

: Lee places the classified file that Zarek has given him on top of the Libran delegate?s nameplate immediately to his right. However, one can clearly see the symbol for Libran at the far right of the nameplate and the letters ?BRAN? with the ?B? partially obscured. There is no other colony that ends in this combination of letters. I?d argue that the symbol is definitive.

: Additionally, in David Bassom?s The Official Companion Season One, the colony is also called ?Libran? on page 86.

: It would be great if you could confirm this for yourselves and add, at the very least, a note drawing fans attention to this nameplate.

If anyone can just confirm this information, let's implement the change. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

The article says that Libran is the colony name because of a ship being registered to that colony. The article cites SciFi.com as the source. "The Space Park, a passenger liner in the Fleet, is of Libran registry (SciFi.com). "
--[[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] 19:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
:The meaning there is that "Libran" is the adjectival form of "Libris". Like Caprica -> Caprican. But given the visual evidence now, we can change the colony name. Appears to be pretty definite. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

:It looks to me more like the props department made a mistake, putting the adjective rather than the nounal form on the nameplate. It would seem odd that the adjective and nounal forms could be the same word. Also, the Battlestar Galactica Official Magazine called the planet "Libris." I don't think that the "official" magazine would make such a blatant error.

== Current activity in the Colonies ==

I recall the Cylons mentioning that they abandoned the 12 colonies in guilt, but there is little chance I'll ever get the exact source episode where I heard this. Two things: first, does this ring a bell for anyone? and second, if my memory was correct, isn't this worth mentioning somewhere in this article? [[User:Blue Rook|Blue Rook]] 07:06, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Population ==

The article currently accepts 20 billion as the population of the Twelve Colonies at the time of the attacks based on Tigh's statement in the "Resistance" webisodes. However, in the recent episode "A Disquiet Folllows My Soul" Gaeta and Kara talk about there being 50 billion people. How do we reconcile these two numbers in the article and, most importantly, which one do we canonise for use in the article? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:38, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

== Aquaria = Aquarion! ==

[[Image:Itscalledaquarion.PNG|right|thumb|200px|Aquarion.]]
Who changed Aquarion back to ''Aquaria''? The name ''Aquaria'' is a Mary McDonnell mispronunciation (much in the same vein as Leoben ''Conroy''). I have clear visual evidence from the props used on the series (sold on the Propworx Ebay auction), that the colony's name is written as '''Aquarion''' and not Aquaria.

To the right are at least three props (that I know of) from the series that were sold on Ebay, that demostrate the colony's name: The Quorum delegate name plate and an identity pass from [[Colonial Day]], and the Quorum name plate from the [[Season 4 (2008-09)|Season Four]] [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum]] [[User:Runic code|Runic code]] 15:51, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

:According to Serge's Twitter, both are correct. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 01:35, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

::That'll do for me :). [[User:Runic code|Runic code]] 14:33, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

== Pictures of natives and some notes ==
I removed all the pictures of natives because a) they were a bit arbitrary to begin with and b) by now we have enough pictures of the planets or at least some of their cities.

I also removed the notes that Caprica, Tauron and Scorpion are the only colonies depicted in the series. This information is a bit outdated since ''The Plan'' aired and will probably be unnecessary once ''Caprica'' fully kicks in.

I also reorganized some of the colony's entries: Information about the planet comes first, then about its culture, population and places and after that information about quorum delegates and fleet population is given. Many of the entries could probably still need a bigger clean-up, though. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 16:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

: Awesome start, and I completely agree that the other articles will need cleanup. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:28, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

:: I did an even bigger revision. The article is reorganized and the entries of the single colonies are cleaned up and rewritten. I hope the text is better structured and more accessible than the previous version. Would be great if someone could have a closer look at it, though. Not a native speaker. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 00:43, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

== Serge's Twitter accout ==

Has anybody else been following him/it? According to him, Gemenon and Caprica share an orbit and the star system of the Colonies has four stars. While certainly official, what is the canonical status of his comments? Should we make changes to reflect this? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:51, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
: Well, this is certainly a new source... It's interesting because I'm really not very comfortable with a fictional Twitter account being quoted as canon, particularly since we don't know if the people behind said account are using actual information from the production or not. I'm thinking that the Twitter account in question should be quoted anyway, since people are going to do that anyway, but we need to note that the source may or may not be accurate—as the source is only a method of using social network to promoting the series... nothing more.
: If, on the other hand, we were talking about something tweeted by Jane Espenson or a cast member, then that'd would certainly have more weight. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
The Caprican is used as a source I see. Why not Serge? Serge is obviously maintained by one of the writers of Caprica.--[User:Tpin12345|tpin]]
:: Sooo... has there been any decision as to whether Serge and/or The Caprican are reliable sources? --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 01:15, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
::: The Caprican is reliable. Natalie Stark, Vesta, Baxter Sarno, V-Match, New Cap City, holoband sleepers, Themis, the memorial in the park, Little Tauron, and other things were all mentioned there days or weeks before the episodes featuring them aired. And there's now an article with more detail about the Tauron Civil War and the origin of the term "dirteater", which will no doubt be borne out by the series. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:19, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
: Regarding Serge, I'd say we should look at it on a case by case basis. There are some chunks of information that can be reasonably expected to be verified within the show (e.g. Gemenon as Caprica's twin planet). Other tidbits that are more vague or obscure should remain in notes or trivia sections, especially if on-screen information sort of contradicts them (e.g. the whole Tauron City vs. Minos thing). Of course, a case by case basis is always prone to personal opinions and the like but I'd run with it for the time being. It would help if we knew for sure who's actually running Serge, though. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 20:38, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
:: I agree with this course of action. I haven't found out who runs the Serge twitter yet. I know who it isn't though. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 23:47, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Serge just tweeted the capital cities of all Twelve Colonies. (Interestingly enough, "Libran and Aquarion (sic) don't have official capitals.") This is great info...but argh, should we post it?! -- [[User:Liquidcross|Liquidcross]] 01:45, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

== Star System Map ==

I'd love to have a map of the star system of the Colonies. Maybe someone up in Vancouver loves us and we'll see one in ''Caprica''. However, I'm not sure if we should keep the one from the RPG. It doesn't really fit with any descriptions we've seen on screen or heard from sources like Jane Espenson and Serge.

Some of the discrepancies: There's only one star as opposed to three (or four); all of the colonies are actual planets or moons, no other stellar bodies; some colonies orbit gas giants we've never heard about but none orbits Ragnar; Caprica and Gemenon don't share an orbit; last but not least Libran is spelled as "Libris". -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 18:38, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
: I agree. This map is an interesting piece of art, but since the RPG isn't canon, the map is fan art, so we should remove it. --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 01:14, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
: Pull it, per the arguments above. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:14, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

== Libran vs Tauron City ==

[[Image:Libran.png|thumb]] [[Image:TauronCity.JPG|thumb]]
As BlueResistance noted, the city that was thought to show Libran in "The Plan" bears a striking resemblance to Tauron City (as seen in "Know Thy Enemy"). I don't think there was a caption in the "The Plan" - the city was simply seen when the Hybrid talked about Libran. I'd say they're supposed to be the same city. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 13:37, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:It's possible, but I'm inclined to disagree. During the Hybrid's "burning" roll call, at least two of the Colonies unambiguously line up with what's on screen: "the harbors of Picon" and "the cities of Caprica" are spoken along with shots of a harbor and of Caprica City. Also, she (it?) says, "The pastures of Tauron are burning" pretty early, so it would be kind of odd to wait so long between saying something about Tauron and showing it. I'm guessing that the production recycled the shot as a cost-saving measure, and as something they could get away with relatively easily, since it's unlikely that they'll show Tauron City again, if at all. It wouldn't be the first CG error in ''Galactica''/''Caprica''. Anyway, let's see what other comments come in before changing images again. - [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 16:46, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:: Just to clarify my point of view: I agree that it is likely that it was originally intended to show Libran. However, unlike Gemenon or Picon later on, it was never directly labeled as such. We simply don't know for sure. To say that it was Tauron City all along is, in my book, much less of a stretch than to say that Tauron City looks nearly identical to a city on Libran. And the fact that the city was originally thought to be Libran is still mentioned in the article on [[Tauron City]]. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 19:48, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to add another level of complexity to it... There is a five decade difference between the two photos. We could assume that the Cylon War probably decimated these cities and they had to rebuild. Thus, there may ''not'' be an error here, per se... just a visual oddity. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:59, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
::::Another difference is that while the city seen in The Plan is located on a very flat terrain with nothing breaking the horizon, several mountains and/or hills can be seen surrounding Tauron City. The differences in the terrain should be taken into consideration. -- [[User:Azure Owl|Azure Owl]] 20:27, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::How about if we just keep the original ''Plan'' screen cap as Libran and the ''Caprica'' screen cap as Tauron City, and leave it at that? There are enough differences to count each as representing separate places, even if it's clear that the CG people were working from their ''Plan'' image when making Tauron City. -- [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:01, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::: I concur. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 22:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== Latest edit (and, I guess, Serge again) ==

I'm wondering whether we should revert the [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=The_Twelve_Colonies_%28RDM%29&curid=1080&diff=194025&oldid=193837 latest edit]. While it adds some interesting information, I have two qualms with it.

First of all there are quite a bit of spelling, grammar and formatting mistakes that would needed to be looked at. Second: None of that information is verified since these links only lead to Serge's account, not specific tweets. Given the load of information that Serge unleashes, I'd say we should be precise. (And I also don't think we need to add ''every'' single bit of trivia that comes up there). -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 03:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

: Concur. Pull it, find the exact tweets in question, cite it, rewrite it... the whole nine AUs. Also, I don't think we need to add ''every'' single bit of trivia, either... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:30, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

::I'm beginning to think that what Serge is saying is mostly true. But I guess we might as well wait until its confirmed right? [[User:CoreyDanian|Corey "Shadow" Danian]] 09:15, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

:::Everything Serge says so far has lined up with the show and The Caprican. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:27, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

:::But obviously we should cite specific tweets for verifiability. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:36, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

JFYI: I made a big clean-up of the latest edits. Again: The new information wasn't cited properly (only stating "the Caprican" [sic]), wasn't reasonably put into the existing text and/or lacked sentence structure. I also threw some stuff out that I couldn't find in the latest articles. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 07:38, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

==Pointing out the word "Gemenese"==

I also removed the odd bit that "Gemenese" is the adjective for Gemenon. That should become clear while reading that paragraph, IMO. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 07:38, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:No, it has to be stated clearly and directly. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:37, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:: Why, exactly? We don't state it for any of the other Colonies and the word already appears in the text. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 14:46, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::: Because it's rather notable in form, we don't know the adjective for many of the other Colonies (if, for example, "Leonan" finally gets stated on the show and not just Serge's twitter, we should note it too), without such a statement not enough attention is drawn to it in the section as is, and without such a statement someone might think we're using a random adjective. The possibility of it not getting across has to be as close to 0% as we can make it. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:02, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:::: Okay, personally I really don't get why it is ''that'' important ("not enough attention", "has to be as close to 0%") to state the adjective of this world in its introductory paragraph - show, don't tell? Besides, at the moment people still might think that we make it up, because there's no citation for it. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 15:13, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::::: I doubt people would think that, as that would be us making a false claim rather than just using a placeholder (as the article currently does with "Aquarian" and used to do with "Leonisian"), but I will add a citation of The Captain's Hand, which is the first episode it was mentioned in as far as I can remember. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:17, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::: To make my point clear: I don't see why the part about the adjective belongs into the first paragraph. In all other colony entries (Aerilon, Aquarion, Libran), linguistic information like that is put in the note section. If it ''has'' to be stated (which I still doubt) it should follow suit. Of course, by then the word is already used four times within the article itself. IMO that makes it a bit redundant. But I'd like others to weigh in, because obviously we both are on the very opposite sides of an argument here. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 15:27, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::: IMO, the unique form of this adjective is interesting enough to be noted, but it's not interesting enough to be noted in the section ''before'', well, the Notes section. --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 15:48, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::: That would put it after uses of the word in the section, making it a redundant note as compared to having it before them. It's not odd this way. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:09, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::: Per that argument we should give up notes sections entirely, because most notes clarify something that is mentioned earlier in an article. Thought about it I agree with Pedda: It's okay to be noted. However, it doesn't belong in the first paragraph (or the article itself) were it looks as if it were one of the most important things to learn about the planet (which it is simply not, as far as I'm concerned). -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 17:11, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::: That's not a reasonable extension of my argument. (head stratch) This is language usage. Saying the adjective is Gemenese logically goes before actually using that word. It's not like anything in a Notes section. And of course the correct language usage is one of the most primary things to learn about the planet. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:22, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::: Honestly, I want the article to be as helpful to readers as possible. If I was a new reader coming here for reference material and saw that sentence in a Notes section instead of the first paragraph, I would think "Why is that there?" and possibly create an account just so that I could put it in the first paragraph. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:57, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::: Why is it not a reasonable extension? People might just as well ask why we call a planet Aquaria, Libran, Aerilon, all of which are clarified and explained in notes sections. That's language usage, as well. I don't see why "Gemenese" is any different.
::::::::::: And the whole "If I were a new user" argument is IMO a bit shallow but definitely works both ways: I'd wonder why that tidbit of information is treated so differently from comparable notes. And why a simple adjective is regarded as that important that it has to be explained in the article's introduction. Also, thinking about it, I'd say that a separate note actually draws more attention to a subject - I'm quite fond of notes that way. But I ''really'' think we both are going round in circles here. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 06:07, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::: Because using the word Gemenese as the adjective and then saying "Gemenese is the adjective" looks funny. It's not like using a planet's name and then explaining where it comes from. It's bad sentence structure. Good sentence structure is the other way around. An explanation of where the word "Gemenese" comes from would go in the Notes, not this statement of the fact of it. And there's no good argument for leaving it out entirely, because it's used so sparsely elsewhere in the section that it could easily fail to register with someone as ''the'' word.
:::::::::::: It seems obvious and intuitive to me that it belongs in the first sentence because it is one of the most primary and basic things about the planet, it is literally one of the first things about it. Other things follow on from there. Not having it where it is right now seems fundamentally wrong to my senses and sensibilities, like missing a step on the stairs. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:05, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::: Well, I think it's bad ''text'' structure to talk about adjectives in a paragraph that is otherwise concerned with the layout of a planet. And I still simply don't get why it's supposed to be that important to inform readers about that word right away. I don't think you'll find that in similar articles on Earth nations that have rather unusual adjectives. And what exactly "follows on from there"? Also I still think that the word is used often enough in the text to make readers notice it.
::::::::::::: '''But look''': I still disagree with you. Strongly. You disagree with me. We both turn each other's arguments around and that's leading us exactly ''nowhere''. I really think by now someone else (=Joe?) should weigh in (=settle on) what to do - and we both should accept that decision. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 19:41, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::::: Holy crap, this was a mountain out of a molehill! A little creative text editing solves the entire problem. So I did it. -- [[User:Liquidcross|Liquidcross]] 19:56, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::: Fine. It's not that important to spell it out, it just bugged me. It would look incredibly odd in the Notes section, so let's leave it out of there. If there was ever an infobox setup for each Colony, Adjective would be appropriate as a section along with Ancient Name, Capital, etc. But there currently isn't one. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 00:35, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::: Wait a minute. I just thought of one minor change I could make that would sort out everything and no one could object to. "Gemenon was one of the poorer colonies and its people, the Gemenese, were known for their religious fundamentalism". I just realized, they're not just people of Gemenon, they're a race, and that's more important than a national adjective. And now it's a natural part of a sentence instead of having a sentence devoted to it, which was not so natural. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 00:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::::: Also, if we need to point out that the adjective wasn't generated from us, why not just use the <nowiki><ref></nowiki> method? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 01:13, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== New info from The Caprican ==

There is a [http://showblogs.syfy.com/caprican/lifestyle/top-5-off-beat-vacation-destinations.php new article] in The Caprican with information about 5 cities in the Colonies. Before incorporating any of it into the article I was wondering how I should approach the citation.

Should we use a single numbered footnote repeated all over the page, or several different numbered footnotes referring to the same source?

I ask because I have the suspicion that some of the info is going to be relevant in the show. In particular, that description about Gemenon’s second most important city and its temple complex. I can’t shake the feeling that the show is going to end up visiting it.

Oh… and it’s the second time they’ve talked about the damn empty stadium in Themis. What’s up with that? -- [[User:Azure Owl|Azure Owl]] 21:06, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
: I'd use normal <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags. After all, the information will be scattered around the page.
: Also (as per the discussion above), please keep in mind not to add every single detail - some general information should suffice. As far as I see it, these articles here are about planets, not their cities. If those cities will show up in ''Caprica'' we can always create articles for them and add detailed information. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 21:21, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

== Picture descriptions + main picture ==

[[Image:Bsyashuman.jpg|thumb|Current main picture of the article.]]
I removed the episode information from the picture descriptions. I think they look much cleaner and more concise that way - especially given that the article is already filled with a lot of links and the new episode citation method would make the descriptions even more cramped. I really don't know whether there's an official style guide regarding picture desriptions but articles throughout the wiki use (and even mix) both methods (with and without episodes).

I also wanted to bring attention to the '''main picture''' of the article. I put it there and I think it's quite nice, aesthetically and stuff. But it doesn't really represent the Twelve Colonies that well. Might there be a better alternative? Maybe a picture of the Colonial Seal ''without'' the "Battlestar Galactica - BSG 62" text or something like that? -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 09:53, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:Main picture: How 'bout [http://media.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/File:Colonial_Seal.svg this]? And I agree that picture descriptions should not include episode titles, unless it's really necessary to put that picture in the right context. --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 15:41, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:: Oh, like that picture. Fits well with the flags. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 16:01, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
[[Image:capricanflagandseal.jpg|thumb|Caprican flag with Colonial Seal, prior to unification.]]
:: Hmm... Not so sure about this, simply because I haven't seen any evidence of this symbol in ''Caprica''. As I recall, it comes after the whole unification thing, or at least it's supposed to. Still, I love the idea. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 01:15, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
::: I ''know'' we've seen the seal here and there in Caprica, but I can't quite remember where-- at the Pyramid matches, maybe? I don't have time to rewatch every episode of Caprica hunting around for it, unfortunately, but it's in the background sometimes. -- [[User:Rjinswand|Rjinswand]] 06:36, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
:::: Yeah, it was seen during the Pyramid match in "Rebirth" on a Caprican flag. Of course we don't know whether it already represents the Colonies as whole at that time - but since the flag looks exactly the same 58 years later, I'd say that's not too much of a stretch to assume. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 07:15, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
::::: Also, I just found a Colonial Seal on a flag of its own, without any Caprican symbols, in the Pyramid match in Imperfections of Memory. Here's a ''really'' bad Hulu screenshot of it: http://thaumic.net/bsg/pyramid.jpg -- [[User:Rjinswand|Rjinswand]] 08:53, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Talk:The Twelve Colonies of Kobol/Archive3

2010-03-24T06:36:08Z

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== Merge proposal ==

This article, and the articles for each of the Twelve Colonies, are all very short, and I don't see any of them expanding substantially in the near future. I think it would make for a nice looking, meaty article if we merged in each of the individual colony articles with this one under first-level headings. How say you all? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:50, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

I know this looks weird and kind of dumb. I'm still fiddling. It's easy to revert if the whole thing ends up being too hideous to bear. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:17, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

[[image:Banner_unknown1.gif|left|75px]][[image:Banner_unknown2.gif|right|75px]]
: I like the idea and whats up now. If we knew more about each colony, it would look nicer, but until then I think this is fine. Now... What to do with these other two banners? Now, the two colonies without banners are Leo and Aquarius, the lion and the water-bearer. Both of these symbols could be a water-bearer, I guess, but I think the black and white one looks like he has whisters, there and that shape at the top looks more ear-like. That would leave the blue and red one to be the water bearer, which I think makes sense enough. Think we could drop those in with a note as to their speculative nature, or best not to? --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:27, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::I'm leaving this one up to [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]], our resident flag-hunter. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:32, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The two colonies without banners is Aquarius and whatever the colonial name is for Libra. I saw in the mini-series they mentioned a colony called "ICON" alongside of "PICON" so I'm a little weirded out. As for Leonis, that flag has been found. I did a picture search in google for the zodiac's constellation and found the flag's symbol looked exactly like what I have designated. I can't remember, but I believe the constellation for Libra looked quite similar to the black one. Since we don't yet know as of yet what is the name for the Libra colony, I have left it blank. [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 01:46, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:At least we know it isn't Ophiuchi or something. Roslin identifies Libra in the Tomb of Athena map room, although she doesn't give its modern name. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:59, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Realizing that it's still being worked on, it looks awful right now. You can't tell which banner goes to which colony, for one thing. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:30, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Personally, I don't really like the combination of all 12 colonies together either since there is no set border and down the road we will have pictures relating to each colony. This will make it slower to download. --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 12:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The problem, in my opinion, is that there's little to do at the main article other than simply list the colonies, and the majority of the individual colonies are stub-like in length. As for images, Caprica is the only planet we've seen thus far and probably the only one we're likely to see (unless we get Scorpion in a flashback in Pegasus or something). One thing we can do, if it becomes necessary, is link to full-length articles from just underneath the first-level headings.

:As for the banners, I agree that they could be confusing but I rather like them right now. Do either of you think it coudl be re-arranged in a better manner (maybe if they didn't alternate sides? But then there'd be a lot more wasted space)? Or is it a lost cause in your opinions? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:20, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::Yeah, you could try putting all the banners on the right. See how it looks. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 14:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::There, that's what they look like right-aligned. Frankly, I think they look better alternating. I don't find it confusing, and the wasted space bugs me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Hate to say it, but I don't like it at all. The banners overlap with the previous colony's "box", there are no clear markers indicating where one section begins and another ends, it just looks bad. (Part of the problem is that we don't have much information about many of the colonies at this point.) --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:07, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::It'd be better if we could insert a line across the entire page, and have the colony name under that line, along with the banner on the right. Then each colony would have a neat, easily readable section. I don't know if Wiki markup is capable of that though. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:10, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::::I still think it's a better option than thirteen articles that are completely insubstantial on their own. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

I added captions to some of the banners, and in the process deleted some of the <nowiki><div></nowiki> markup. Wikipedia recommends against using HTML ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_markup_with_HTML]), and I've been trying to learn from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax Extended image syntax] page. I can't figure out why a new section like <nowiki>==Caprica==</nowiki> doesn't appear on the same level as its banner. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:09, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:Ah ha! The wonders of '''<nowiki> </nowiki>'''! What do you guys think of the formatting now? --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:28, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::My HTML/CSS was not used lightly. That's really the one way to get the banners at the section heading level as I did. Frankly this seems like a more cumbersome version of my right-aligned attempt. I really dislike the caption boxes, too.
::I have a new idea: Rather than use the (rather long) banners, we can grab the icons from each, along with the background colors, and use them. I've created nine high-resolution versions from QuintusCinna's originals, which you can link to below:
::[http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/aerelon.png Aerelon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/canceron.png Canceron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/caprica.png Caprica], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/gemenon.png Gemenon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/picon.png Picon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/sagittaron.png Sagittaron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpion.png Scorpion], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/tauron.png Tauron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/virgon.png Virgon]
::These could be scaled down to almost any size and still look nice. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:35, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Without caption boxes, it's not clear what the banners are. I know it seems self-explanatory to us, but for someone who's never seen them before, it's not. I'll take a look at the icons in a bit. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 17:03, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I find repeating "This is the Banner of X" to be tedious, and the red background to be jarring. Couldn't we simply note that the banner/icon/flag/colors of the colony is provided to the right? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:06, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Peter. You've saved us all. As I said earlier, I liked it when the banner appeared to be hanging from the red line under its colony's name. I share Peter's dislike for tons of white space and alternating the sides seemed to create the least of that. However, if we just had the emblem and colors from each flag, we could do it below the red line as Fang seems to like, and not have this huge, long graphic. Maybe we can then link the full banner pics and, if we get enough information that a given colony's article wouldn't be a stub, we can display it there. Does all that make sense? --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I like it with banners to right, with titling, albeit a little redundant. Not sure how to deal with the "white space" of many areas, but we're really not going to get them filled until we get more data, so that is that. I feel it's informative enough as it stands, but I'll leave the formatting arguments alone. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:52, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

== Which flag is which? ==

A close viewing of [[Colonial Day]] indicates that the flag currently labeled as [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]] belongs to Safiya Sanne's seat - either Picon or Leonis; and that the black flag belongs to Robin Wenutu's seat (Canceron), and that VIrgon's flag is a white field with a green inner stripe and yellow outer stripe. I'm curious as to how QuintusCinna came to his conclusion that the delegates aren't seated at their apprporiate flags, since I don't know any other evidence linking particular flags to colonies. I guess Scorpion is pretty obvious, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:34, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:Don't trust the banners lining up with those they represent in [[Colonial Day]]. The reason I say this is that [[Tom Zarek]] is in one area of the room and his very obvious banner for Sagitarron is completely in another area. This is the same for Virgon's banner and their representative. There are 3 different questions I carry thanks to the shows I have watched. In the mini-series we see the banners are in this order from left to right: [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Aerelon|Aerelon]], [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], Scorpion, Aquaria(?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Tauron|Tauron]], Libra (?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]], [[Canceron]] (?), [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Leonis|Leonis]]. Is this in the order that the colonies signed the unification treaty or is the order for the flags random or is it in the order they were nuked? Though I am sure the producers, directors, and such just put them up in random order, it is now a sense of fact for the show. If we were to believe they were placed up there, the banners must be up there in some order that is according to military protocol for flag bearing. In Colonial Day I add 2 more questions. We see that the banners are behind the delegates in a different order than in the mini-series. This means they were either a) put up randomly or b) have a separate purpose than those shown at the end of the mini-series (nuked, treaty order, or other). Then we see that the delegates are put in a different order than the banners behind them. The Gemenon delegate is clearly seen toward the middle and the Gemenon flag is clearly in a different area. The same questions come up for the delegates: are they randomly placed or is there reason. It's not alphabetical, and placements of delegates and banners in every society is always in some sort of traditional order. I hope that the Battlestar Galactica producers, writers, and such will be able to answer this though I suspect they won't because they have REAL lives. As for the Picon flag, the constellation looks quite similar to the picon banner and the same goes for Tauron's with Taurus. I have no doubt with those. The Libra's icon can be seen in this picture [http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/HorseAstrology/AstrologySymbol.gif] 2 clockwise from Sagittarius. --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 1:12, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

== Libris = Libran? ==

Guys, gals, and bots, got this e-mail from one of our keen-eyed visitors:

: In episode 403 ?The Ties That Bind?, the Libran colony?s name is revealed in the scene with Lee Adama and Tom Zarek in the Quorum of the Twelve chambers at 18 minutes 40-43 seconds.

: Lee places the classified file that Zarek has given him on top of the Libran delegate?s nameplate immediately to his right. However, one can clearly see the symbol for Libran at the far right of the nameplate and the letters ?BRAN? with the ?B? partially obscured. There is no other colony that ends in this combination of letters. I?d argue that the symbol is definitive.

: Additionally, in David Bassom?s The Official Companion Season One, the colony is also called ?Libran? on page 86.

: It would be great if you could confirm this for yourselves and add, at the very least, a note drawing fans attention to this nameplate.

If anyone can just confirm this information, let's implement the change. Thanks! -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:59, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

The article says that Libran is the colony name because of a ship being registered to that colony. The article cites SciFi.com as the source. "The Space Park, a passenger liner in the Fleet, is of Libran registry (SciFi.com). "
--[[User:Jonathan|Jonathan]] 19:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
:The meaning there is that "Libran" is the adjectival form of "Libris". Like Caprica -> Caprican. But given the visual evidence now, we can change the colony name. Appears to be pretty definite. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 19:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

:It looks to me more like the props department made a mistake, putting the adjective rather than the nounal form on the nameplate. It would seem odd that the adjective and nounal forms could be the same word. Also, the Battlestar Galactica Official Magazine called the planet "Libris." I don't think that the "official" magazine would make such a blatant error.

== Current activity in the Colonies ==

I recall the Cylons mentioning that they abandoned the 12 colonies in guilt, but there is little chance I'll ever get the exact source episode where I heard this. Two things: first, does this ring a bell for anyone? and second, if my memory was correct, isn't this worth mentioning somewhere in this article? [[User:Blue Rook|Blue Rook]] 07:06, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

== Population ==

The article currently accepts 20 billion as the population of the Twelve Colonies at the time of the attacks based on Tigh's statement in the "Resistance" webisodes. However, in the recent episode "A Disquiet Folllows My Soul" Gaeta and Kara talk about there being 50 billion people. How do we reconcile these two numbers in the article and, most importantly, which one do we canonise for use in the article? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:38, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

== Aquaria = Aquarion! ==

[[Image:Itscalledaquarion.PNG|right|thumb|200px|Aquarion.]]
Who changed Aquarion back to ''Aquaria''? The name ''Aquaria'' is a Mary McDonnell mispronunciation (much in the same vein as Leoben ''Conroy''). I have clear visual evidence from the props used on the series (sold on the Propworx Ebay auction), that the colony's name is written as '''Aquarion''' and not Aquaria.

To the right are at least three props (that I know of) from the series that were sold on Ebay, that demostrate the colony's name: The Quorum delegate name plate and an identity pass from [[Colonial Day]], and the Quorum name plate from the [[Season 4 (2008-09)|Season Four]] [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum]] [[User:Runic code|Runic code]] 15:51, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

:According to Serge's Twitter, both are correct. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 01:35, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

::That'll do for me :). [[User:Runic code|Runic code]] 14:33, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

== Pictures of natives and some notes ==
I removed all the pictures of natives because a) they were a bit arbitrary to begin with and b) by now we have enough pictures of the planets or at least some of their cities.

I also removed the notes that Caprica, Tauron and Scorpion are the only colonies depicted in the series. This information is a bit outdated since ''The Plan'' aired and will probably be unnecessary once ''Caprica'' fully kicks in.

I also reorganized some of the colony's entries: Information about the planet comes first, then about its culture, population and places and after that information about quorum delegates and fleet population is given. Many of the entries could probably still need a bigger clean-up, though. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 16:10, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

: Awesome start, and I completely agree that the other articles will need cleanup. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:28, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

:: I did an even bigger revision. The article is reorganized and the entries of the single colonies are cleaned up and rewritten. I hope the text is better structured and more accessible than the previous version. Would be great if someone could have a closer look at it, though. Not a native speaker. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 00:43, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

== Serge's Twitter accout ==

Has anybody else been following him/it? According to him, Gemenon and Caprica share an orbit and the star system of the Colonies has four stars. While certainly official, what is the canonical status of his comments? Should we make changes to reflect this? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 02:51, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
: Well, this is certainly a new source... It's interesting because I'm really not very comfortable with a fictional Twitter account being quoted as canon, particularly since we don't know if the people behind said account are using actual information from the production or not. I'm thinking that the Twitter account in question should be quoted anyway, since people are going to do that anyway, but we need to note that the source may or may not be accurate—as the source is only a method of using social network to promoting the series... nothing more.
: If, on the other hand, we were talking about something tweeted by Jane Espenson or a cast member, then that'd would certainly have more weight. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
The Caprican is used as a source I see. Why not Serge? Serge is obviously maintained by one of the writers of Caprica.--[User:Tpin12345|tpin]]
:: Sooo... has there been any decision as to whether Serge and/or The Caprican are reliable sources? --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 01:15, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
::: The Caprican is reliable. Natalie Stark, Vesta, Baxter Sarno, V-Match, New Cap City, holoband sleepers, Themis, the memorial in the park, Little Tauron, and other things were all mentioned there days or weeks before the episodes featuring them aired. And there's now an article with more detail about the Tauron Civil War and the origin of the term "dirteater", which will no doubt be borne out by the series. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:19, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
: Regarding Serge, I'd say we should look at it on a case by case basis. There are some chunks of information that can be reasonably expected to be verified within the show (e.g. Gemenon as Caprica's twin planet). Other tidbits that are more vague or obscure should remain in notes or trivia sections, especially if on-screen information sort of contradicts them (e.g. the whole Tauron City vs. Minos thing). Of course, a case by case basis is always prone to personal opinions and the like but I'd run with it for the time being. It would help if we knew for sure who's actually running Serge, though. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 20:38, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
:: I agree with this course of action. I haven't found out who runs the Serge twitter yet. I know who it isn't though. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 23:47, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Serge just tweeted the capital cities of all Twelve Colonies. (Interestingly enough, "Libran and Aquarion (sic) don't have official capitals.") This is great info...but argh, should we post it?! -- [[User:Liquidcross|Liquidcross]] 01:45, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

== Star System Map ==

I'd love to have a map of the star system of the Colonies. Maybe someone up in Vancouver loves us and we'll see one in ''Caprica''. However, I'm not sure if we should keep the one from the RPG. It doesn't really fit with any descriptions we've seen on screen or heard from sources like Jane Espenson and Serge.

Some of the discrepancies: There's only one star as opposed to three (or four); all of the colonies are actual planets or moons, no other stellar bodies; some colonies orbit gas giants we've never heard about but none orbits Ragnar; Caprica and Gemenon don't share an orbit; last but not least Libran is spelled as "Libris". -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 18:38, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
: I agree. This map is an interesting piece of art, but since the RPG isn't canon, the map is fan art, so we should remove it. --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 01:14, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
: Pull it, per the arguments above. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:14, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

== Libran vs Tauron City ==

[[Image:Libran.png|thumb]] [[Image:TauronCity.JPG|thumb]]
As BlueResistance noted, the city that was thought to show Libran in "The Plan" bears a striking resemblance to Tauron City (as seen in "Know Thy Enemy"). I don't think there was a caption in the "The Plan" - the city was simply seen when the Hybrid talked about Libran. I'd say they're supposed to be the same city. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 13:37, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:It's possible, but I'm inclined to disagree. During the Hybrid's "burning" roll call, at least two of the Colonies unambiguously line up with what's on screen: "the harbors of Picon" and "the cities of Caprica" are spoken along with shots of a harbor and of Caprica City. Also, she (it?) says, "The pastures of Tauron are burning" pretty early, so it would be kind of odd to wait so long between saying something about Tauron and showing it. I'm guessing that the production recycled the shot as a cost-saving measure, and as something they could get away with relatively easily, since it's unlikely that they'll show Tauron City again, if at all. It wouldn't be the first CG error in ''Galactica''/''Caprica''. Anyway, let's see what other comments come in before changing images again. - [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 16:46, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:: Just to clarify my point of view: I agree that it is likely that it was originally intended to show Libran. However, unlike Gemenon or Picon later on, it was never directly labeled as such. We simply don't know for sure. To say that it was Tauron City all along is, in my book, much less of a stretch than to say that Tauron City looks nearly identical to a city on Libran. And the fact that the city was originally thought to be Libran is still mentioned in the article on [[Tauron City]]. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 19:48, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:::Just to add another level of complexity to it... There is a five decade difference between the two photos. We could assume that the Cylon War probably decimated these cities and they had to rebuild. Thus, there may ''not'' be an error here, per se... just a visual oddity. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:59, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
::::Another difference is that while the city seen in The Plan is located on a very flat terrain with nothing breaking the horizon, several mountains and/or hills can be seen surrounding Tauron City. The differences in the terrain should be taken into consideration. -- [[User:Azure Owl|Azure Owl]] 20:27, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::How about if we just keep the original ''Plan'' screen cap as Libran and the ''Caprica'' screen cap as Tauron City, and leave it at that? There are enough differences to count each as representing separate places, even if it's clear that the CG people were working from their ''Plan'' image when making Tauron City. -- [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:01, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::: I concur. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 22:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

== Latest edit (and, I guess, Serge again) ==

I'm wondering whether we should revert the [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=The_Twelve_Colonies_%28RDM%29&curid=1080&diff=194025&oldid=193837 latest edit]. While it adds some interesting information, I have two qualms with it.

First of all there are quite a bit of spelling, grammar and formatting mistakes that would needed to be looked at. Second: None of that information is verified since these links only lead to Serge's account, not specific tweets. Given the load of information that Serge unleashes, I'd say we should be precise. (And I also don't think we need to add ''every'' single bit of trivia that comes up there). -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 03:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

: Concur. Pull it, find the exact tweets in question, cite it, rewrite it... the whole nine AUs. Also, I don't think we need to add ''every'' single bit of trivia, either... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:30, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

::I'm beginning to think that what Serge is saying is mostly true. But I guess we might as well wait until its confirmed right? [[User:CoreyDanian|Corey "Shadow" Danian]] 09:15, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

:::Everything Serge says so far has lined up with the show and The Caprican. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:27, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

:::But obviously we should cite specific tweets for verifiability. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:36, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

JFYI: I made a big clean-up of the latest edits. Again: The new information wasn't cited properly (only stating "the Caprican" [sic]), wasn't reasonably put into the existing text and/or lacked sentence structure. I also threw some stuff out that I couldn't find in the latest articles. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 07:38, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

==Pointing out the word "Gemenese"==

I also removed the odd bit that "Gemenese" is the adjective for Gemenon. That should become clear while reading that paragraph, IMO. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 07:38, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:No, it has to be stated clearly and directly. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:37, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:: Why, exactly? We don't state it for any of the other Colonies and the word already appears in the text. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 14:46, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::: Because it's rather notable in form, we don't know the adjective for many of the other Colonies (if, for example, "Leonan" finally gets stated on the show and not just Serge's twitter, we should note it too), without such a statement not enough attention is drawn to it in the section as is, and without such a statement someone might think we're using a random adjective. The possibility of it not getting across has to be as close to 0% as we can make it. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:02, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:::: Okay, personally I really don't get why it is ''that'' important ("not enough attention", "has to be as close to 0%") to state the adjective of this world in its introductory paragraph - show, don't tell? Besides, at the moment people still might think that we make it up, because there's no citation for it. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 15:13, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::::: I doubt people would think that, as that would be us making a false claim rather than just using a placeholder (as the article currently does with "Aquarian" and used to do with "Leonisian"), but I will add a citation of The Captain's Hand, which is the first episode it was mentioned in as far as I can remember. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:17, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::: To make my point clear: I don't see why the part about the adjective belongs into the first paragraph. In all other colony entries (Aerilon, Aquarion, Libran), linguistic information like that is put in the note section. If it ''has'' to be stated (which I still doubt) it should follow suit. Of course, by then the word is already used four times within the article itself. IMO that makes it a bit redundant. But I'd like others to weigh in, because obviously we both are on the very opposite sides of an argument here. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 15:27, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::: IMO, the unique form of this adjective is interesting enough to be noted, but it's not interesting enough to be noted in the section ''before'', well, the Notes section. --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 15:48, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::: That would put it after uses of the word in the section, making it a redundant note as compared to having it before them. It's not odd this way. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:09, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::: Per that argument we should give up notes sections entirely, because most notes clarify something that is mentioned earlier in an article. Thought about it I agree with Pedda: It's okay to be noted. However, it doesn't belong in the first paragraph (or the article itself) were it looks as if it were one of the most important things to learn about the planet (which it is simply not, as far as I'm concerned). -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 17:11, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::: That's not a reasonable extension of my argument. (head stratch) This is language usage. Saying the adjective is Gemenese logically goes before actually using that word. It's not like anything in a Notes section. And of course the correct language usage is one of the most primary things to learn about the planet. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:22, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::: Honestly, I want the article to be as helpful to readers as possible. If I was a new reader coming here for reference material and saw that sentence in a Notes section instead of the first paragraph, I would think "Why is that there?" and possibly create an account just so that I could put it in the first paragraph. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:57, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::: Why is it not a reasonable extension? People might just as well ask why we call a planet Aquaria, Libran, Aerilon, all of which are clarified and explained in notes sections. That's language usage, as well. I don't see why "Gemenese" is any different.
::::::::::: And the whole "If I were a new user" argument is IMO a bit shallow but definitely works both ways: I'd wonder why that tidbit of information is treated so differently from comparable notes. And why a simple adjective is regarded as that important that it has to be explained in the article's introduction. Also, thinking about it, I'd say that a separate note actually draws more attention to a subject - I'm quite fond of notes that way. But I ''really'' think we both are going round in circles here. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 06:07, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::: Because using the word Gemenese as the adjective and then saying "Gemenese is the adjective" looks funny. It's not like using a planet's name and then explaining where it comes from. It's bad sentence structure. Good sentence structure is the other way around. An explanation of where the word "Gemenese" comes from would go in the Notes, not this statement of the fact of it. And there's no good argument for leaving it out entirely, because it's used so sparsely elsewhere in the section that it could easily fail to register with someone as ''the'' word.
:::::::::::: It seems obvious and intuitive to me that it belongs in the first sentence because it is one of the most primary and basic things about the planet, it is literally one of the first things about it. Other things follow on from there. Not having it where it is right now seems fundamentally wrong to my senses and sensibilities, like missing a step on the stairs. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:05, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::: Well, I think it's bad ''text'' structure to talk about adjectives in a paragraph that is otherwise concerned with the layout of a planet. And I still simply don't get why it's supposed to be that important to inform readers about that word right away. I don't think you'll find that in similar articles on Earth nations that have rather unusual adjectives. And what exactly "follows on from there"? Also I still think that the word is used often enough in the text to make readers notice it.
::::::::::::: '''But look''': I still disagree with you. Strongly. You disagree with me. We both turn each other's arguments around and that's leading us exactly ''nowhere''. I really think by now someone else (=Joe?) should weigh in (=settle on) what to do - and we both should accept that decision. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 19:41, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::::: Holy crap, this was a mountain out of a molehill! A little creative text editing solves the entire problem. So I did it. -- [[User:Liquidcross|Liquidcross]] 19:56, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
::::::::::::::: Fine. It's not that important to spell it out, it just bugged me. It would look incredibly odd in the Notes section, so let's leave it out of there. If there was ever an infobox setup for each Colony, Adjective would be appropriate as a section along with Ancient Name, Capital, etc. But there currently isn't one. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 00:35, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::: Wait a minute. I just thought of one minor change I could make that would sort out everything and no one could object to. "Gemenon was one of the poorer colonies and its people, the Gemenese, were known for their religious fundamentalism". I just realized, they're not just people of Gemenon, they're a race, and that's more important than a national adjective. And now it's a natural part of a sentence instead of having a sentence devoted to it, which was not so natural. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 00:47, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
:::::::::::::: Also, if we need to point out that the adjective wasn't generated from us, why not just use the <nowiki><ref></nowiki> method? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 01:13, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

== New info from The Caprican ==

There is a [http://showblogs.syfy.com/caprican/lifestyle/top-5-off-beat-vacation-destinations.php new article] in The Caprican with information about 5 cities in the Colonies. Before incorporating any of it into the article I was wondering how I should approach the citation.

Should we use a single numbered footnote repeated all over the page, or several different numbered footnotes referring to the same source?

I ask because I have the suspicion that some of the info is going to be relevant in the show. In particular, that description about Gemenon’s second most important city and its temple complex. I can’t shake the feeling that the show is going to end up visiting it.

Oh… and it’s the second time they’ve talked about the damn empty stadium in Themis. What’s up with that? -- [[User:Azure Owl|Azure Owl]] 21:06, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
: I'd use normal <nowiki><ref></nowiki> tags. After all, the information will be scattered around the page.
: Also (as per the discussion above), please keep in mind not to add every single detail - some general information should suffice. As far as I see it, these articles here are about planets, not their cities. If those cities will show up in ''Caprica'' we can always create articles for them and add detailed information. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 21:21, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

== Picture descriptions + main picture ==

[[Image:Bsyashuman.jpg|thumb|Current main picture of the article.]]
I removed the episode information from the picture descriptions. I think they look much cleaner and more concise that way - especially given that the article is already filled with a lot of links and the new episode citation method would make the descriptions even more cramped. I really don't know whether there's an official style guide regarding picture desriptions but articles throughout the wiki use (and even mix) both methods (with and without episodes).

I also wanted to bring attention to the '''main picture''' of the article. I put it there and I think it's quite nice, aesthetically and stuff. But it doesn't really represent the Twelve Colonies that well. Might there be a better alternative? Maybe a picture of the Colonial Seal ''without'' the "Battlestar Galactica - BSG 62" text or something like that? -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 09:53, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:Main picture: How 'bout [http://media.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/File:Colonial_Seal.svg this]? And I agree that picture descriptions should not include episode titles, unless it's really necessary to put that picture in the right context. --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 15:41, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:: Oh, like that picture. Fits well with the flags. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 16:01, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
:: Hmm... Not so sure about this, simply because I haven't seen any evidence of this symbol in ''Caprica''. As I recall, it comes after the whole unification thing, or at least it's supposed to. Still, I love the idea. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 01:15, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
::: I ''know'' we've seen the seal here and there in Caprica, but I can't quite remember where-- at the Pyramid matches, maybe? I don't have time to rewatch every episode of Caprica hunting around for it, unfortunately, but it's in the background sometimes. -- [[User:Rjinswand|Rjinswand]] 06:36, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Template talk:Characters (Caprica)

2010-03-21T20:12:06Z

Rjinswand: /* Serge */

== Reorganization ==
Lots of recurring characters are missing, lots of characters from the pilot shouldn't be on the list, and it seems a little judgmental to distinguish between groups defined by their family name OR their religious affiliation. Hence, I suggest we use [[Template:Characters|this]] as a template.
The new template would look like this: 
'''Main:''' [[Daniel Graystone]] | [[Joseph Adama]] | [[Amanda Graystone]] | [[Zoe Graystone]] | [[Lacy Rand]] | [[Sam Adama]] | [[Jordan Durham]] | [[Clarice Willow]] 
'''Supporting:''' [[William Adama]] | [[Cyrus Xander]] | [[Nestor Willow]] 
'''Recurring:''' [[Tamara Adama]] | [[Barnabus Greeley]] | [[Priyah Magnus]] | [[Philomon]] | [[Ruth]] | [[Ben Stark]] | [[Tomas Vergis]] | [[Olaf Willow]] 

--[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 11:52, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

: Definitely agree to this. If more people agree, we can change this over ASAP. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 15:13, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
:: Any other opinions? --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 16:17, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
::: Add Desiree Willow and Larry under Recurring. Can't think of anyone else who is missing right now. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:30, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
:::: I've updated it, but I was thinking it might be a good idea to add [[Youngblood]] and [[Gara Singh]] as well... although, I will admit that I am on the fence on adding either of them at the present time, if only for fear of bloating up this nav box. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:19, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::In my honest opinion, if we've added the members of the Swiss Family Willow to the nav box we should at least add Youngblood and Singh. --[[User:These|These]] 21:15, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
::::::That's what I'm thinking as well. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 22:05, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
:::::::Well, as long as we're just covering Season 1.0, we could certainly add all other characters who have appeared, or are expected to appear, at least three times up until "[[End of Line]]" - including GDD staffers, half a dozen Willow spouses, and probably a couple New Cap City players. Once we 're heading into Season 1.5, however, the list should be limited to characters with at least five appearances, IMO.--[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 09:43, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

== Philo ==

I'm thinking that we'll be moving [[Philomon]] to supporting soon... Thoughts? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 00:07, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
: Agreed and done. Btw, is there any objective criterion for this kind of decision? --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 20:04, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
:: I think it has to be determined on a case by case basis. We need to factor in number of appearances, the influence of those appearances to the story, and other factors of influence. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 20:19, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

== Serge==

Is the robot intelligent enough to qualify as a character? --[[User:Pedda|Pedda]] 20:04, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
: Sure. Given that SyFy is promoting his twitter and his repeated appearances in the series, I don't see why we shouldn't add him. We basically treat him as a character already, even if he is a house-broken bitch. :) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 20:23, 20 March 2010 (UTC)
:: Clearly, Serge is the Helo-like moral compass of the entire Caprica mythos.-- [[User:Rjinswand|Rjinswand]] 20:12, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Via Appia/Archive 1

2010-03-16T06:14:02Z

Rjinswand:

Have yet to see this episode, but isn't "Graystone Foundation" supposed to be "Graystone Industries?" -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 02:29, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

The letter is addressed to Graystone Foundation. Not sure if this is meant to mean Graystone Industries or an umbrella organisation, perhaps encompassing his ownership of the Buccaneers? Wanted to do something about it on the wiki, but wasn't sure what. [[User:Cheka73|Cheka73]] 05:38, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

In the Caprican, at least, the Graystone Foundation is the non-profit created to deal with the Holobands in the wake of Graystone's declaration on Baxter Sarno. I can't remember the context of Via Appia, though. -- [[User:Rjinswand|Rjinswand]] 06:14, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Caprica City/Archive 1

2010-03-14T23:38:52Z

Rjinswand: /* Caprica City or New Cap City? */

== Nuclear attack ==

Can it be safe to assume that Cap City was attacked by a [[Wikipedia: Neutron bomb|neutron bomb]] instead of conventional nukes? Granted, the "landlord bomb" (neutron bombs kill people but don't destroy buildings) is largely a myth, but there is enough of a truth to it if they are used tactically. I'm assuming that the Cylons would have the know-how to use such weapons in the optimal manner.--[[User:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]] 01:11, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:It's likely, and maybe even worth speculating about in-text (although I'd prefer that to be on [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] than here), but not okay to state as a definitive fact. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:22, 20 January 2006 (EST)

::Nuclear weapons on the show appear to use ordinary Plutonium, and are not neutron bombs. And we see shock waves moving through the city briefly. What may confuse you is that we see Helo in cities that aren't destroyed: the Cylons destroyed most cities, such as Caprica City (the capital), but they ''intentionally spared'' a few cities like Delphi. Our educated guess is that they were spared so the Cylons could use them as military ground bases. But most of the cities on the planet have been destroyed. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13:25, 20 January 2006 (EST)

In the mini series Adama states "thirty minutes ago, a thermonuclear warhead in the 50 MEGATON range detonated over Caprica City" this article states 50 KILOTONES, unless someone corrects me i'm going to change it - [[user:lordmutt|lordmutt]]

Changed, just popped in the DVD adama definitely says megaton - [[user:lordmutt|lordmutt]]

==Geography of Caprica==
Okay, let's break this down. Helo and G-Sharon first set down at most a few hours outside of Caprica, since Baltar was able to make it to their Raptor on foot. Helo then runs for about six days before meeting C-Sharon. They can't have spent the 4 days between "33" and "Water" traveling far, since Sharon's purported raptor is still within binocular range. Two days later, in "Bastille Day", they arrive at the deserted city.

That puts Unnamed City #1 no more than about 8 walking days from Caprica City.

They stay there until "Litmus", and then hit the road again in "Six degrees of separation", passing a countryside bridge. This time they're running with substantially greater urgency. In "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down", they find themselves in the sewer system of a second unnamed city.

That puts Unnamed City #2 no more than about 11 running days from City #1.

8 Days later, they pass through another rural area in "The Hand of God" while they overnight in a barn. By now, Delphi is "eight or ten" days off.

In "Colonial Day", 11 days later, they make it to the outskirts of Delphi. Two days after that, they make it down to the spaceport. Within another day or two, they arrive at the museum.

Thus:

Caprica City <--8 days--> Unnamed City #1 <--11 days--> Unnamed City #2 <--8 days--> Unnamed rural area <--13 days--> Delphi Spaceport

Does anyone have any notion as to how much distance a fit man of Helo's build could cover in a single day? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:51, 19 February 2006 (EST)

:That's a pretty interesting/tricky [http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/ question]. Lots of variables. Under ideal conditions, a fit man could probably travel 50 miles in a single day pretty easily. Flat, smooth roads, plenty of water and food/energy would make 5mph for about 10 hours possible. I'm betting we're looking at less than ideal conditions for Helo though. Since this is an infantry situation, he'd probably want to avoid the roads ("linear danger areas", where enemies might approach quickly with little notice). Taking it offroad would considerably slow him down, most likely, especially if he is not familiar with the area. Also, we're not just talking about a single day, since whatever pace he is traveling must be spread out over almost a week. Also, considering that he's "behind enemy lines", his movement would likely be slowed by having to be cautious about being spotted, using/identifying cover, etc. And that's all assuming that he's got food/water on hand and doesn't need to spend time foraging for such things. Taking that all into account I'd think 10-15 miles a day would be a pretty admirable pace. Speaking from experience, I ended up running a marathon as a fit person who really hadn't done the proper training. I completed it, but could hardly walk straight (due to soreness, etc) for the next few days. You have piqued mine (and my wife's) curiousity on this topic, and we discussed the possibility of doing an experiment on this topic sometime. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 22:58, 19 February 2006 (EST)

::My curiosity is piqued, too. Worthy to add to the [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]] article, perhaps? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:12, 20 February 2006 (EST)

:::I've been wanting to work on a "Geography of Caprica" article for a while, but haven't been able to get around to it. There might be enough material here to re-create the old Caprica (RDM) article with a blurb-and-link on The Twelve Colonies (RDM). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:30, 20 February 2006 (EST)

:::: I've spent some time in my life backpacking. On one trip, we had a guy who, no kidding, counted his steps every day. ''While'' having conversations with us all and helping navigate, etc. No idea how he did it. Anyway, about half way through our ten-day trip, we figured out based on his counting, our total distances for each sayt, etc. that we were averaging roughly 3mph. That may seem slow, but we weren't trying to be fast, really, and were interested in looking at pretty scenery and stuff. This also included breaks for lunch and resting, so actual speed at a given moment was likely a bit higher. This was in the South Country of Philmont (which is in northern New Mexico), so not exactly flat and there were trails, but not roads much.

:::: Now, all of us were Boy Scouts, but none of us were military personell and we had big packs to slow us down that Helo didn't, but then... Not having a pack means he had to forage some. Anyway... I thought that might be some helpful information for someone who's working things out. --[[User:Day|Day]] 11:57, 20 February 2006 (EST)

== More to Add ==

I have a good-size compilation of facts relating to Caprica City that I could put in the article. I know that part of editing is being bold, but due to the number of facts I have I believe it would be best to have this request approved. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:01, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks for your caution. Why not post them here, along with your source? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:12, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::No problem. I'll get started right now. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:18, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::This looks generally good. Was the "riverwalk" mentioned in dialog or an on-screen caption? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:53, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::The area where Number Six murders the infant was called "Riverwalk Market" in an on-screen caption in the Miniseries.--[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 14:57, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::Werid. I can't remember that... is there a screenshot? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:59, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::I'll try. Also the area where the conversation between Baltar and Six occurs the day of the attack is called "Government Center Plaza" in the novelization. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:03, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::Novelization follows a different continuity though. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:06, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::::Won't put it in the article. Just thought it was interesting. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:10, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::::Can't we note what the novelization says with a caveat that it's non-canon? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:13, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::::::Sure. I can put it down right now in the article and put a disclaimer after it. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 15:26, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::::::::::Actually Roslin mentions in again in LDBY II. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:44, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::::::::::In that case, that title really does deserve to be in the article. I'll add LDBY II as a citation. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 09:01, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

== Looking For Some Trivia ==

You know that snaking elevated compelx I mentioned in the Riverwalk section of the article? I've seen it used on ''Stargate-SG1'' for the Tolon homeworld and in ''Agent Cody Banks'' as the CIA's Seattle headquarters, so it is a popular film location. Does anyone know where it is in the real world and its name? I'd like to use that info for this article's trivia section. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 09:09, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

:All fine US tv series are made in Vancouver; BSG, the Stargates, X-Files, Dark Angel, the L Word: if you check IMDB many of the secondary and minor cast members have appeared on each of these shows in the past. They tend to just be sets in and around Vancouver. The "Riverwalk" of which you query is in fact part of the campus of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Fraser_University Simon Fraser University], specifically check out this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sfu-academic-quadrangle-pond.jpg photo here] --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 09:30, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks a lot for that. I'll have a trivia section up momentarily. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 09:44, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

==Good "New" Images==
Hey, I was looking at this website of one of the guys who rendered Caprica City in the mini. In his gallery he shows, among the shots we saw, several other shots which we didn't see and were great (he also has a cleaner version of some). They are good shots, but I wanted to post it here so we can decide whether to post them or not:

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4122/capricacity8am.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2720/capricacity23vq.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4691/capricacity35es.jpg

From This Site: http://www.fxstation.com/page3/page3.html

I know the first one we actually see, but this shot was a bit clearer, anyways, I mean mainly the second two, they show other parts of Caprica City, and despite not being absolutley "show" rendered, they were done quite well and would be good imagery IMO. I dunno, but I would like to know your opinions --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:51, 4 July 2006 (CDT)

:The quality is excellent, and the source is cited. I don't see any problem. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:32, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
: I do not see any issue in using these pictures either. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:38, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
::Great, then I'll start "redecorating" ;) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 01:47, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

:::Well, use the on-air shot as the "title pic" at the top of the Caprica City article, but yeah just sprinkle these throughout the rest of the article. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:58, 6 July 2006 (CDT)
::::Looked at article: what you did was perfect. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:00, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

== Caprica City or New Cap City? ==

Might the picture with the caption "Caprica City prior to the First Cylon War" (and currently featured in the opening of ''Caprica'') actually be New Cap City? The darker and grungier aesthetics of the scene seem to align much more with New Cap City as depicted in "There Is Another Sky" than the brighter and more modern skylines that seem to dominate Caprica City. A case might be made that it's an older part of the city, like the neighborhood where the Adamas live. However, the zeppelin looks far too much like the one that prowled the streets of New Cap, and like nothing we've seen (so far) in the "real" world. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:40, 3 March 2010 (GMT)
: The same thing occured to me. I think it's New Cap. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 22:49, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
: Good eye. It's probably New Cap City. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 22:51, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
: Good theory, I never really thought of that to begin with! [[User:CommanderTony|CommanderTony]] 16:49, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
* It is New Cap City. Check the ticker that is roughly beneath the gigantic dirigible. It reads "Welcome to New Cap Ci-". The same opening (just as the title "Caprica" appears) also has a split-second appearance of one of those steampunk airplanes that "killed" Heracles in "The Imperfections of Memory". Since those planes don't seem to exist in real Caprica (more modern, atmospheric Vipers seem to be whats used for Caprica Air Force) we can assume the shot is indeed one of New Cap City. --[[User:Neakal|Neakal]] 20:24, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
* In the podcast to one of the episodes they actually mention that New Cap City is in the credits. -- [[User:Rjinswand|Rjinswand]] 23:38, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Delphi Convalescent Institute/Archive 1

2010-03-13T19:56:33Z

Rjinswand: The Farm

Do we know that this is the same place that ended up being the farm? I know that Simon mentioned it was an old mental institution, but I don't really remember him naming it. I could be wrong, though. --[[User:Rjinswand|Rjinswand]] 19:56, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Vinagro

2010-03-13T03:04:52Z

Rjinswand:

Vinagro is a pharmaceutical perhaps used as an aphrodisiac or erectile aid. In the [[Virtual World]], one does not need Vinagro for frakking 50 women in 1 night. Vinagro sponsors the instant replays in TV coverage of the [[Caprica Buccaneers]]. ([[The Imperfections Of Memory]])

Battlestar Wiki:Galactipedians Quorum

2010-03-12T20:49:22Z

Rjinswand: /* Color of links to other wikis */

{{Template:Archive-bot
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{{Project|Wikipedian Quorum|image=BSG WIKI Quorum.png|shortcut=BW:GQ BW:WQ}}

[[Battlestar Wiki:Welcome, newcomers|Welcome, newcomers]] and baffled oldtimers! If you have a question about [[Battlestar Wiki]] and how it works, please place it '''at the bottom of the list''', and someone will attempt to answer it for you. (If you have a question about life, the universe and everything, go to the [[Battlestar Wiki:reference desk|reference desk]] instead.)

Before asking a question, check if it's answered by the [[Battlestar Wiki:FAQ]] or other pages linked from [[Battlestar Wiki:Help]].

Before answering a newcomer's question abruptly, consider rereading [[BW:BITE|Please do not bite the newcomers]].

Questions and answers will not remain on this page indefinitely (otherwise it would very soon become too long to be editable). After a period of time with no further activity, information will be moved to other relevant sections of Battlestar Wiki (such as the FAQ pages) or placed in one of the Wikipedian Quorum archives if it is of general interest, or deleted. Please consider dating and titling your discussions so as to facilitate this.

{{newsection link}}

{{ArchiveTOC}}

== Rewrote [[:Council Security]] ==

I did a pretty much total rewrite of [[:Council Security]]. Hope it passes muster. — [[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]] [[[User talk:SMcCandlish|talk]]] [[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|cont]]] ‹(-¿-)› 10:35, 8 February 2008 (CST)
:Looks good in general. Nice details of their appearances. Though we generally write the article bodies themselves from a strictly in-universe perspective and confine real-world references to notes (unless it's an article dealing with an obvious real-world subject of course). -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:45, 8 February 2008 (CST)
::Yeah, I re-read the policy on that last night (after like 3 months); will re-re-write the article so that the real-world stuff is in the Notes section, unless someone has beat me to it. — [[User:SMcCandlish|SMcCandlish]] [[[User talk:SMcCandlish|talk]]] [[[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|cont]]] ‹(-¿-)› 02:47, 9 February 2008 (CST)
:::I removed it. It was mainly about the comparisons to the US police or Secret Service. The article is fine without that. Saying things like "In episode so and so they did..." is ok if it can't be avoided. Since the article partly deals with their different depiction in various episodes, that's appropriate in this case. So a completely re-write isn't really necessary. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:54, 9 February 2008 (CST)

== "Spoiler follows, highlight to read" ==

Does anybody else find the "highlight to read" style distracting and kind of unprofessional? Why can't we just use a little CSS to make a pop-down spoiler box:

<div class="NavFrame" style="border-style: none; padding: 0px;"><div class="NavHead" style=" text-align: left; padding: 0px;">'''Spoiler follows'''</div><div class="NavContent" style="display: none; text-align: left; padding: 0px;"><div style="text-align:left; border: 1px solid #ffffff; padding: 2px; margin-top: 2px;">Adama is a cylon!</div></div></div>

(This is GFDL code from Wikipedia, I can copy it over to a template and give credit where it's due.) [[User:Evan|Evan]] 16:59, 20 March 2008 (CDT)

: I don't see any problem with this. :) What does everyone else think? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 17:17, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
::Format's pages wrong. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:40, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
::: In what way? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:11, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
::::Colours don't work in BsgMonoBook, alignment is off in BsgBook, I don't see anything wrong in the default skin though. [[User:Evan|Evan]] 18:22, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
::::Nvm, the colours work in MonoBook. Actually I don't see anything wrong in any of the skins. [[User:Evan|Evan]] 18:38, 20 March 2008 (CDT)

::If it doesn't screw anything up, this would be far better than the highlight thing we have now. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:54, 20 March 2008 (CDT)
::::The drop down does not format on lists correct. Like before, it would create a new line and interrupt the list numbers. Also, from our previous discussion on javascript expanding boxes in the middle of episodes pages (which are not at the top), templates that expand huge things of text change the entire format of the page layout when they expand. Images get shifted and it creates an unnesseary new lines that were not there before. It's always 100% width. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:30, 21 March 2008 (CDT)

OK, the template is created as [[:Template:Spoilerbox]], add it if you like. I'm not going to replace the existing spoilers since... I don't want to be spoiled :) [[User:Evan|Evan]] 07:39, 21 March 2008 (CDT)
:Nice template. Less is more for me on some pages, especially now. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:42, 21 March 2008 (CDT)
::Uh, one question...what's the input format for the template? I can't glean that from the description. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:45, 21 March 2008 (CDT)
:::I've updated the page, but the syntax is {{tlp|spoilerbox|This is a spoiler! Muhahahahha!}}. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 13:55, 21 March 2008 (CDT)
::I like the idea, but I'm not sure it's universally better than the current method... Especially if it will create problems like Shane mentioned. As dumb as it seems, I think the current method does have some advantages: Depending on how someone highlights the spoiler, they can control how much of the spoiler is revealed. Also, people can gauge how much content the spoiler contains just by looking at the amount of unreadable text. --[[User:Galjamspe|Galjamspe]] 00:40, 22 March 2008 (CDT)

== Proposition for new article ==

Hi! Quite new here, and since I don't find a button for creating a new article, I figure I must go through the Quorum?

I'd love it if we could open a small article for adding notice for Caprica Six's unborn baby.
There's no actual article for this person yet, and I have to write my mentions about it, in already existing articles like Gaius Baltar's and Caprica Six's.

Thanks for the attention! {{unsigned|Iniovan}}

: Do we really know anything about the baby enough to write an article? At this point, we just know that Caprica-Six is pregnant and that the father is Saul. Other than that... any analysis on it could probably fit in the episode guides. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 18:28, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

== Question on editing etiquette ==

Hi,

I'm a newbie here. So this is a question so I can hopefully avoid stepping on anyone's toes. If you see an existing article and wish to add to the information and content, would it always be best to ask the original contributor before doing so? Especially if to do so, I would have to move some items around in the original article.

For example, I want to put in a new reference to supplement the article, however, it would need to go before an existing article, requiring renumbering of all of the references.

I'm just trying to get a feel of what is good editing and bad editing before I put foot in mouth.

thanks!
Jeff Rabb
:In a word, no. In addition to greatly slowing down the ability for the community to keep things up to date, it also ignores the fact that once you hit "save page" your edits become community property. There really isn't an "ownership" of articles, outside of perhaps articles in the "User" namespace. So feel free to [[BW:BOLD|be bold]] and get in those edits. If somebody takes issue with your edits they can either change it back themselves, take it up in the talk page of the article in question, and/or potentially bring it up on your talk page. New references are almost always welcome, as they're the glue that binds this place together. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 23:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice!
Jeff

== How Can This Not Be Canonical? ==

On the [[unnamed battlestars]] page, there is section dealing with the [[Berserk Class Escort]]. A notation notes the specific information on this class of ship is non-canonical. Presumably because it comes from the ship designer's own website vs that from one of the sanctioned websites or sources. But the ship WAS used in [[Razor]]. So how can one on one hand use it in the show and on the other hand say that any specific information on it from it's creator is non-canonical simply because TPTB never bothered to put it with a sanctioned source? It either is or isn't in my book. I'm sure this discussion has arisen many times before, but I'd like to find out the final arguement that finally determined why this source, which straddles the line, should be excluded as non-sanctioned? Jeff Rabb
:The ship described on the website is on the show, but canon starts from the aired content and trickles down from there. So while we do see the ship, we aren't given any in-show identification of the ship. Also, there's nothing from the producers on the matter. However... the information coming from "crew" does seem to place it somewhere in category 3 in the [[BW:CITE|source hierarchy]], so it should have some weight (IMO). Anyway, I can see where the note was coming from (in that none of the information about the name of the ship, etc., came from any aired info or from RDM, etc), but I think you've got a decent argument. Given Joe's edit to the article, it appears he at least checked out the source website enough to correct the spelling to match it. Personally, I'd consider replacing the "canon" note and just replace it with a reference pointing to Chu's website. I do have to agree that it's not necessarily a battlestar, and in fact given the escort designation it's likely not a battlestar. Battleships don't "escort" battleships, and likewise with aircraft carriers. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 01:35, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

== The Caprican - Will We, Won't We ==

Hello all,

Very, very new here. I'm wondering if the contents of the newzine "The Caprican" will be included in info on the Caprica series?

It's been really great to read it, and join in the group that's been posting in character. I wouldn't think that the comments would be included as material, but the actual articles seem like they're going to be good fodder for Colonial life in general.

Thanks!
Glasswalker33

: I think we need to be very clear that whatever is in "The Caprican" isn't necessarily canon. If that's done, I have no qualm about including it, since it is put out officially by the SyFy Channel. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 03:36, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

== Question....Original Series ==

My teacher gave a clue to his laptop password...its "Three that was detroyed" from TOS
can anyone tell me what it means?
I tried D'Anna, Xena, And Six of one, none of the worked {{unsigned|Snarky}}

: "Three that was destroyed..." Hmm... Might be referring to a lot of things, actually. Like "Zac," the third child of Adama's that was killed in the pilot. Could be "Serina" too... I think your teacher needs to be a bit more specific. "Three" of what? Is "three" a specific thing, or does "three" mean a quantity? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 19:29, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

== Color of links to other wikis ==
I'm not quite sure this is the right place to ask this. I find a bit confusing that links to other wikis (e.g. Wikipedia, Memory Alpha) share their color with battlestarwiki links. I think its cool to link to other wikis at times, for example to give real world perspectives on some matters but I'd like to directly know if a link leads me away from this site. Maybe another shade of yellow/orange could be used? -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 22:12, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
: Hmm... We could do that. I'd like to get everyone's impression on it though. I might tweet this so we can get some idea of what people think. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 22:17, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Just to illustrate my point (and bring the discussion up again): Most of you are probably aware of this but I think [http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Ronald_D._Moore Memory Alpha] is a very good example for what I mean. The color of non-MA links is only slightly darker but it makes it very easy to spot them. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 19:51, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

I am very much in support of this, I keep on getting sent to Memory Alpha or wherever when I don't really want to be. -- [[User:Rjinswand|Rjinswand]] 20:49, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Talk:William Adama/Archive 1

2010-03-12T09:25:00Z

Rjinswand: /* William Adama in Caprica */ new section

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== Revision issue ==

Just curious, but what's going on with the page? I thought it had more information than this... -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 19:59, 5 May 2005 (EDT)

: As it turns out, [http://battlestarwiki.joebeaudoin.net/index.php?title=Adama%2C_William&oldid=3457 it did]? Is this currently being revised? If so, that's great. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 20:01, 5 May 2005 (EDT)

== Divorced? ==

Is there a source for his being divorced from Anne and a reason she is not mentioned in his "Marital Status" entry? --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 21:17, 28 December 2005 (EST)

:I don't believe Adama was divorced from Anne at all, but in any case no episode data confirms that status. Note he wears a wedding ring in the miniseries. Also note his sadness on announcing Caprica City's nuking, suggesting other loved ones (maybe Anne) was a victim, too. The only information we can confirm thus far is that Adama married twice. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:29, 17 January 2006 (EST)

== OK, NOT the Adama I Expected to Get Kissed ==

Wow. [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]] took me a bit by surprise at the end there. Not Cain getting shot, but Adama's little kiss with Roslin. That was an interesting turn. Not sure what to make of it, other than I was getting all girly-swishy watching it all like a soap opera. That should make the next episode more harder to watch with Roslin...well, don't want to spoil it. And damn, I'm glad the wiki's back up. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:32, 13 January 2006 (EST)

: I was ''incredibly'' impressed with Olmos' acting just after the kiss. After she turned away and his face fell... I could very easily sense the utter ''depth'' of sorrow the <s>Commander</s> Admiral was feeling. I've seen that face a few times in real life regarding real life sickness and loss and, well, as I said, I was impressed. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:35, 14 January 2006 (EST)

::Another good bit of Olmos' acting was in the last episode. I didn't notice it until after I listened to the podcast, but Olmos wipes away a tear as he turns around to hear Roslin say one more thing as he leaves Colonial One in the scene before the battle plan scene. He's a damn fine actor--they all are. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 14 January 2006 (EST)

::I thought that RDM said something in the podcast about Olmos spontaneously adding the kiss, which is why Roslin's reaction is so good. --[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 14:55, 16 January 2006 (EST)

:::That's correct. I learned this later myself when someone else noted this from the podcast as well as well as from the podcast when I listened in, too. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:26, 17 January 2006 (EST)

== "Roll the hard six" ==

Does anyone know what "rolling the hard six" actually refers to? I know it has to do with the game of craps, but I don't know specifically what it means. It would help if i did, because I've started using it completley inadvertently in everyday speech, along with [[frak]]. My friends look at me like I'm insane, its pretty bad. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 00:52, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:Dude...Six is the highest number on dice. "Rolling the hard six" means getting a high number, when your really need it in a difficult situation...as this is a statistically rare occurance, it is "hard" to do. This doesn't refer to anything specific at all; this is intuitive.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:01, 29 January 2006 (EST)

::First, I don't think you're right. I believe the reference is more specific than that.
::Secondly, It would have been a simple matter to phrase your response without a condescending tone. Instead of what you actually said, you could've said "I think 'rolling the hard six' simply refers to actually rolling a six on a die. Since six is the highest number on dice, it means getting a high number when you really need it, and since rolling a 6 is statistically rare, it is "hard" to do."
::Why is it necessary to be rude to other members of the wiki? It only encourages them to be rude back to you, and I know you've had problems with users flaming you in the past - well, this is why they did it. A less civilized person might decide to insult you every chance they get, after the several comments you've made at me.
::When you insult me or other frequent posters, it is merely an annoyance. However, when you insult those who are relatively new to the wiki, you are actually scaring them. I know if I got a comment like that on my first post, I might decide never to post again. This damages the wiki, as there may be quality posters waiting in the wings who you could be scaring off. Please, choose your words carefully and refrain from being rude - to everyone, from newbs to admins and everyone in between. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 11:13, 29 January 2006 (EST)
:::This is not rude, it is blunt honesty, and should be taken as such.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 11:27, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:::: There're plenty of ways to be honest and even blunt, but not rude. In fact, I don't think you were very blunt at all. Blunt would have been more like: "Six is the highest number on dice. That is "hard" to roll." And BMS's sample would have been ''just'' as honest (read: truthful) as your post. Additionally, just because you intended something to be blunt and honest, but not rude, doesn't mean others must take it that way; the onus is on ''you'' to make sure your intent is clear in the words and phrases you choose. --[[User:Day|Day]] 13:05, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:In [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craps standard craps]], "hard six" specifically refers to the combination 3-3 on two dice. You can roll a six 5 different ways (1-5,2-4,3-3,4-2,5-1) only 1 of which is "hard". When a player needs a six, any of the combinations will do. The odds against making a ''hard'' six are 10-1, since only 1 outcome is favorable and 10 are unfavorable (namely, the other 4 ways to make a six, and all 6 ways to make a seven). So the symmetry and low frequency of 3-3 lead to its special designation. The same is true of hard 4, 8 and 10. There is no "hard 2" or "hard 12" for a variety of reasons including the obvious one (there's only one way to roll them anyhow). --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 12:40, 29 January 2006 (EST)
::Actually, the odds of rolling a hard six are ''36 to 1'' rather than 10 to 1. There are 36 (6x6) possible combinations with two dice, only one of which (3-3) is the one you need. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:48, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
:: Thanks, John. This has been bugging me for a long time, too. Now we all know. --[[User:Day|Day]] 13:05, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:::Yes, yes, thank you. I am quite sorry. Please, let's put this unpleasantness behind us.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13:14, 29 January 2006 (EST)
::::That's what I thought it was. I've noticed that I've also been saying this in normal conversation. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:32, 29 January 2006 (EST)
:::::Thanks a ton John. That helps a lot, now I can actually explain it when someone asks. Talos: its pretty bad, isn't it? Doesn't mean I'm gonna stop doing it, though! --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 13:42, 29 January 2006 (EST)

::::::Hey, don't feel bad, I insert it into conversation ''on purpose''--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:16, 29 January 2006 (EST)

==Husker==
Say, is there a way to get the Character template to stop saying William "Husker" Adama? He has not been addressed as Husker, so it might be more of a confusion than anything to have it say that. As a Commander and now an Admiral, he has not been known as a Viper pilot for quite a while. Long before we became "acquainted" with him. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 23:47, 24 February 2006 (EST)
:Yeah, I'm not a fan of it either (or anything on that template, for that matter) - but if we get rid of his callsign, should we also get rid of Lee's? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:59, 24 February 2006 (EST)

== Sources? ==

There are lots of things in this article that weren't stated in any of the shows. Shouldn't these things have notes as to their sources?

"At the outbreak of the first Cylon War, Adama was serving in the Colonial Fleet as a Viper pilot. He allegedly gained the call sign of "Husker" on account of his baritone "gravelled" voice. He proved to be a gifted pilot, shooting down his first Cylon on his very first mission. He racked-up his 1,000th deck landing while serving aboard the Battlestar Atlantia (Act of Contrition), when he held the rank of Lieutenant. "

Where is all that from? I can only imagine the Video Game, which is not a legitimate source (according to the Citation Jihad Project)

"before the pressures of Adama's career and the time he spent away from home of active service began to place a strain on their marriage."

Has it ever been stated why they divorced?

"but within a few years he had been discharged as the result of a reduction-in-force."

We don't know why he was discharged.

Just a few examples.

:<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> makes a magic signature thing, though you have to make your own dashes.
:We certainly know he was a gifted viper pilot, though the "in the First Cylon War" part might be based on deleted scenes. (The flashbacks to Adama and Tigh meeting, etc., certainly say it.) We know he had the callsign "Husker" as well, though, again, maybe just from deleted scenes (the flashbacks to Adama and Tigh meeting, etc., probably); I don't recall knowing why he got it. I don't recall the kill on first mission, either. The 1,000th deck landing thing is apparently referenced in [[Act of Contrition]], which fits with the celebration that was interrupted by the errant probe, but I admit not recalling the line; checking the transcripts would verify.
:I don't recall knowing the reason Adama is estranged from his wife, but I do recall that we do not know if they are divorced at all (see above section).
:I believe the reduction in force reason was at least heavily implied in deleted scenes (the flashbacks to Adama and Tigh meeting, etc.).
:So, the stuff I'd be worried about is the reason for the callsign, the kill on the first mission, and the reason for his estrangement from his wife. All seem reasonable (and the last almost certain), but that's not good enough; someone else can probably source them, though. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 15:02, 9 March 2006 (CST)

We know his callsign because it was printed by the cockpit of his Mark 2 viper in the miniseries.

We don't know wny adama is estranged from his wife, but we know he was divorced because in the miniseries, apollo says that she is getting remarried.

We don't know why Tigh and Adama ended up on a freighter. Maybe they quit after the war? Maybe they were tossed out as reduction in force. It's never said.

: Both Adama and Tigh were honorably discharged after the war. The only reason why Adama got in was because his "new wife" had pull in the Colonial Military. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:26, 12 March 2006 (CST)

:You're right about the callsign, though I'd note I did say that we knew it.
:Popping in that DVD, indeed such a marriage is mentioned. (Though it did bring to mind my inability to recall mention that they were ever married.)
:While I was popping in DVD's, I confirmed the [[Atlantia]] location for Adama's 1000th landing. (Kara tells a story about it in [[Act of Contrition]].) --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 18:55, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Regarding the discharge of Adama and Tigh, I think that they were most likely honorably discharged, since the fleet eventually re-hired them. The issue here though is WHY were they honorably discharged? Did they themselves resign, or did the Fleet downsize them out of the service?

After World War II, the government didn't really have much problems with military size, as a great number of people merely did not reenlist.. and who could blame them? Did Adama and Tigh do the same thing? were they so sick of war that they got themselves out of the service, only to find civilian life unsatisfying?

We just don't know, and stating otherwise as fact probably isn't the best thing to do.

== Cleanup Required ==

This article is one of our longest. I wouldn't necessarily want to lose the central bio, but we should move the first season info into a subarticle, or severely condense it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:51, 14 June 2006 (CDT)

This article now possesses the first truncated character bio for a major character. Discussions of the article appear in [[User talk:Spencerian/Shortbio]] and the original mock page is at [[User:Spencerian/Shortbio]]. In short, the goal of this adjustment to highlight the important notes of the character with a minimum of narrative or rehashing of episode data already present in other articles. In short, the bio page reflects more on who the character is, and less on what he's done that's not something of remarkable note and which hasn't been noted ''ad nauseum'' to another article. Truncated character bios also reduce the article size to prevent issues with older browsers and readers, and make it easier for all to edit and update since historical information can simply be added in a few bullets. We haven't set this format officially, so now is the time to comment and critique this live version. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:54, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

: I like. I went in and fixed some typos. I wonder if "background" might not be made to be even shorter. As it stands, it's nearly as long as the in-series stuff we've seen. Maybe that's just an artifact of his having a lot of background provided to us in the show (as opposed to the reletively equal amount of BG exposition each character received in the Mini). Anyway, I think this is a lot more wieldy. I would not be opposed to other lengthy character pages moving to a similar format. Maybe we should make some S&C regarding it, though, first. Not sure. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 14:05, 13 July 2006 (CDT)

::Right. The bullets allow better condensing, so if there's more there that's really an episode comment rather than a distinguishing character comment, then it should be removed. The essense of ''what he is'' is different than how we need to talk about ''what he does''. I have [[Gaius Baltar]] next on my target for such a truncation once we approve the format, then Roslin. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:17, 14 July 2006 (CDT)

I am opposed to this use of bulleted list on a character page. I understand that it is to long, but it's not good this way. I'll work on it later. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:20, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

: I am, personally, fine with bullets, but don't feel married to them. A narrative format giving this same level of information is, to me, equally desirable. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]] - [http://hiver.swordofthestars.com/ SotS]) 15:04, 19 July 2006 (CDT)

== Mum and Pop Adjustment ==

Since the authenticity of the character's parents was correctly called into question by Merv per Citation Jihad guidelines, Sky One information on the character's parents, specifically Evilyn Adama, has been removed as its official source cannot be verified. The brief character page for Ms. Adama has also been removed. We may likely know more once [[Caprica (series)|Caprica]] airs. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:44, 28 July 2006 (CDT)

== His service file in "Hero" ==

Here is the service file from "Hero":

- Born H5/21290 and raised in the colony of Caprica, in [Qualia], a small coastal community. 
- Mother Evelyn Adama, an accountant. 
- Father Joseph Adama, a prominent attorney who specialized in criminal defense and civil liberties. 

MILITARY SERVICE 
D6/21311 First commission: Battlestar Galactica fighter squadron 
E4/21312 Commendation for shooting down Cylon fighter in first combat mission 
D3/21314 Mustered out of service post armistice 
H5/21317 Served as Deck Hand in merchant fleet and as crewman aboard inter-colony tramp freighters 
D1/21331 Recommissioned to Fleet 
D2/21337 Major: Battlestar Atlantia 
R3/21341 Executive Officer: Battlestar Columbia 
C2/21345 Commander: Battlestar Valkyrie 
C2/21348 Commander: Battlestar Galactica 

What doesn't make sense is that he was XO on ''Valkyrie'' only 3 years ago. I got the distinct impression that he was on ''Galactica'' for a longer time. For example Gaeta, Starbuck and possibly Tyrol make statements that they served with him for 2-3 years on seperate occassions.
Given his stated service time of 45 years, it would put the current year at 21356. That would also put the Valkyrie mission 8 years back. So assuming that it was 8 instead of 3 years, everything would fit again --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:09, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Is Adama a Cylon? ==

This might sound far-reaching, but I don't think it is. [[Leoben]] hinted at the possibility, and we see him in another episode (sorry, don't remember which one) crushing pecan shells (or walnuts?) with his bare hands. Who do we know has superhuman strength? The human-Cylons as evidenced by when Leoben rips apart a pipe at the Ragnar station, and when Kara is fist-fighting 6 on Caprica, along with some other shows of strengths by human cylons that I'm neglecting to mention.

He might be one of the Final Five. Perhaps the Final Five were a rebellious group trying to help the humans, and that's why the other seven don't talk about them.
-- [[User:Rhorn|supercheetah]] 05:41, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
:Adama has a son and served in the original Cylon War. He cannot be a Cylon. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 06:32, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::Perhaps he was one of the first human-Cylons. Serving in the first Cylon War may have been a rebellion on his part. --[[User:Rhorn|supercheetah]] 20:44, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
:::Not possible. The [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|original Cylons]] were purely mechanical (identical in appearance to their [[Centurion (TOS)|Original Series versions]]), not humanoid as many are now. The humanoids weren't built until sometime between the end of the Cylon War and probably a short time before the second. William Adama has a child but also was the son of another [[Joseph Adama|mentioned-only character]], of which a new character, [[Romo Lampkin]], has studied under, which verifies Adama's humanity. Cylons are effectively infertile (with [[Sharon Agathon|one]] exception). Check out the articles "[[Humanoid Cylon speculation]]" for notable characters that are eligible for suspicion, and [[Characters eliminated from suspicion|a list of characters with virtually no possibility]] of being a Cylon for some additional insight. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:08, 15 March 2007 (CDT)

== Who here thinks Adama is a bad Commander==

In the origional series he was really a good commander, but here, all he did was get assigned to a bad ship and not get promoted to Admiral. I've looked at the episode in a whole and see how bad Adama is in the CIC. When they get attacked in the miniseries all he does is exchange pleasentries with his XO whole a nuke is imbound that is going to kill 85 of his men. I don't want to sound rude, but shouldn't the great hero be a little smarter than he is. His own son was a better commander than he was as he at least cripled a Baseship by maneuvering the Pegasus instead of just sitting there letting his Vipers do all the work while he is outmaneuvered, outgunned, and outmatched every time. --[[User:Sith Penguin Lord|Sith Penguin Lord]] 15:34, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
:Remember that Adama planned the Battle of New Caprica. Granted, Pegasus had to intervene, but the plan was a daring one. Also remember that, like Apollo said, "command is about people". Adama's crew trusts him, and he knows how to communicate with his crew and defuse issues. For an example of the latter, I refer to the scene in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]" in which Tigh and Gaeta are arguing, and Adama approaches Gaeta in a friendly way and gets him to work. Also, when a nuke is gonna hit you in 10 seconds, it's too late to do anything but pray the Vipers will take it down. Weapon batteries are powered off (they're no use against just two Raiders), and maneuvering a mile-long ship in such a short time is also not doable. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:43, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

::The RDM Adama is more straightlaced but experienced military man, with his flaws that come with that. Bill Adama is also a ''cool cucumber'' in the heat of battle, with no dramatics like Captain Kirk would have. Character history shows that he does that purposely to show other crew an example of calm and discipline. [[Felix Gaeta]] emulates Adama often in season 1 with that same demeanor. The TOS Adama was more of a blend between the military Adama and [[Laura Roslin]]'s spiritual and civilian outlook. Adama and Saul Tigh have a rapport with each other that has kept them calm through experience: They both served in the Cylon War, which was horrific in the worst way. Perhaps they don't overreact because (1) they knew that a battlestar could take a nuke hit (it is designed to) and (2) they've seen worse.

::Don't discount Adama's strategy at the [[Battle of New Caprica]]. It ''worked'' and very well. But every strategy has its weaknesses, and Adama knew that if more than two baseships engaged ''Galactica'', they were in trouble. His son (who's learned to be a good battlestar commmander himself) showed equal thoughtfulness in (1) coming to the battle (2) leaving his Vipers behind as protection for the last of humanity just in case, and (3) realizing that sacrificing one battlestar against 4 baseships was worth it to keeping one battlestar alive. -- [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:54, 20 April 2007 (CDT) ([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contrib Skillz]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|Edit Skillz]])

:I kinda like that he isn't really a man of action. Outwards, he is calm, reserved and contemplative. However he was very strong feelings and everyone now and then they shine through. Sometimes that's in private like him crushing the nuts in "Home" or slamming his desk in "Exodus, Part I". Sometimes, it's public ally, and that's when really bad things happen, like his decision to overthrow Roslin in "Kobol's Last Gleaming".
:He isn't prone to theatrics and doesn't forcefully show off his authority with barking dramatic orders all the time. That's somewhat unusual for SciFi leads. Jeffrey Sinclair from B5 comes to mind as well, but that character isn't offset with something else. But all in all, I wouldn't say that he's a bad commander. He makes some bad calls now and then when his feelings get the better of him, but also some good decisions.
:Lee is really more of an action figure, and maybe the writers want to contrast that. But good results now and then don't necessarily make a better leader. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:03, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
:Not that it matters very much, but I realized it just now: ''Pegasus'' is a much bigger, much more powerful and possibly more maneuverable ship than ''Galactica'', therefore taking out a basestar with ''Pegasus'' is not as much of an accomplishment as taking out a basestar with ''Galactica''. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 17:11, 20 April 2007 (CDT)
:[[BW:NOT|Battlestar Wiki is not a forum]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:13, 20 April 2007 (CDT)

== Disliking guesses ==

Anyone think that Adama's dislike of his officers guessing (Water) is an homage to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle?

''"I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."''

Just a thought :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 12:25, 5 November 2007 (CST)

== Adama asleep in jump ==

:In ''[[Scattered]]'', Adama was asleep the whole time of the jump from here to there escaping the Cylons by the fact he was unconcscius where in [[33]], everyone was awake the whole 5 days. This could support that u can sleep through a jump. by why keep the fleet up for five days? [[User:CoreyDanian]]
*They weren't all up. Crew had to be awake to operate the vessels. But passengers were asleep. And it can be hard to sleep when you're scared, even if you're tired as frak. [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 20:18, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

== Admiral and commander oblivious to one another's assassination plans? ==

Source for this? I got the vibe that each knew on some level what the other was plotting. [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 20:22, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

== Update needed ==

*This page needs an update more than the ''Galactica'' needs an overhaul. [[User:ZeldaTheSwordsman|ZeldaTheSwordsman]] 03:54, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

==BCE==

Please, take note of [[Talk:Timeline_(RDM)#BCE_occurences|this issue]]. [[User:Str1977|Str1977]] 09:52, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

== William Adama in Caprica ==

I feel like there should probably be a picture of Sina Najafi as young Willie somewhere in this article, given that Sina plays him in like every episode of Caprica, so it's weird that things like the Caprica episode pages or character template point here and it's just a bunch of pictures of EJO and Nico Cortez. Thoughts? -- [[User:Rjinswand|Rjinswand]] 09:24, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Chiron

2010-03-12T08:56:29Z

Rjinswand: uh, his fate is unknown, right? i don't remember vesta mentioning shooting him or whatever

Vesta

2010-03-12T08:52:56Z

Rjinswand: expanded a bit