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Life Forms of the Twelve Colonies

2007-10-27T16:31:26Z

Redwall: Camels!

:''This article discusses an aspect of the [[Re-imagined Series]] version of the Twelve Colonies. For information on the [[Original Series]] version, see [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)]].''

{{RDM twelve colonies series}}

This article is a list of fictional and actual '''animals and plants''' mentioned in the [[Re-imagined Series]] as existing on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|the Twelve Colonies]]. For the most part, the Colonies appear to have the same organisms as present-day earth, with some exceptions.

In keeping with the [[naturalistic science fiction]] concepts that [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron D. Moore]] used to model the series, it is unlikely that we may see any life forms outside of those found on any of the Earth-like planets of the Twelve Colonies.

Ron D. Moore initially chose to avoid addressing the issue of the types of live animals planned to appear. In the commentary for the [[Miniseries]], Moore elaborates:
:..."David and I, we had discussed, at an early point; well, do they have dogs and cats and things like that? And we said, "No, no, no", let's not go there, 'cause that locks us into a whole Terrestrial-kind of like thing. We'll just avoid any mention of it. '''Nobody will even, like, register that we had "Chicken pie" the whole time, and in retrospect "Oh, I guess there are chickens"."'''

Over the course of the series, however, not only have the terrestrial names of flora and fauna been used extensively, but a [[Jake (New Caprica)|live dog]] and [[Lance|cat]] have also appeared relatively prominently. Rats and bats can briefly be seen in "[[Bastille Day]]" and "[[Litmus]]" respectively.

==Fictional==
===Plants===
*[[Chamalla]]
:'''Roslin:''' "I would like to explore alternative treatment. [...] Have you ever heard of Chamalla extract?" ([[Act of Contrition]])
:''Resembles (somewhat) herbal [[Wikipedia:Cannabinoids|cannabinoids]] and [[Wikipedia:Opioids|opioids]] in its pain-killing and hallucinogenic effects, which are found in the plant [[Wikipedia:Cannabis|cannabis]] and the [[Wikipedia:Opium Poppy|opium poppy]], respectively.''
*[[Fumarella leaf]]
:'''Baltar:''' "A parting gift: hand-rolled from some of the finest Fumarella leaf on Caprica. It's also one of the last left in the universe." ([[Water]])
:''An homage to the [[TOS|original series]], in which [[Starbuck (TOS)|Starbuck]]'s [[Wikipedia:Cigar|cigars]] are referred to as "[[Fumarello|fumarellos]]". This plant may be similar or identical to [[Wikipedia:Tobacco|tobacco]].''

==Real==
===Animals===
====Mammals====
*[[w:Bat|Bat]]
:Seen flying out of an abandoned warehouse in "[[Litmus]]".
*[[w:Camel|Camel]]
:Baltar has a statuette of a camel on his [[:Image:Season 3 - Promo - Epi 1 - 2 - Gaius Baltar and Cylons.jpg|desk]] while president. ([[Precipice]])
*[[Wikipedia:Cat|Cat]]
**'''Adama:''' "...then grab your gun and bring in the cat." ([[Miniseries]])
**[[Romo Lampkin]] carries a [[Lance|cat]] around with him ([[The Son Also Rises]]).
[[Image:Jake and bowl.jpg|thumb|200px|right|[[Jake]] on New Caprica.]]
*[[Wikipedia:Dog|Dog]]
**'''Cally:''' "She said the engine power-up sequence began by squeezing something that looks like a red ligament with blue veins on the right side coming out of a sack of gooey fluid, shaped like a... dog." ([[Six Degrees of Separation]])
**'''Baltar:''' "I will be the President, all right, but without the military support, I might as well be an anointed dog catcher." ([[Epiphanies]])
**'''Roslin:''' "I need you to send my ID code on the exact same frequency: D, as in dog [...]" ([[Miniseries]])
**'''[[Helena Cain|Cain]]:''' "Madam President, you look like I just shot your dog." ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]], [[Quotes:01 5|Quote of the day]])
**'''[[Billy Keikeya|Billy]]:''' "...dog takes 20 pills a day." - '''Roslin:''' "I didn't know you had a dog-" - '''Billy:''' "yeah, big shaggy thing - [[Jake (Billy's dog)|Jake]]" ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]], [[List_of_Deleted_Scenes|deleted scene]])
**A dog named [[Jake (New Caprica)|Jake]] appears on [[New Caprica]], whose water bowl is flipped by [[Felix Gaeta]] to notify [[Galen Tyrol]] of an intelligence drop ([[Precipice]]). Jake, a border collie, is the first live animal to play a significant role in the series, with a [[Lance|cat]] to follow in a [[The Son Also Rises|later season 3 episode]].
**[[Daniel Novacek]]'s callsign "Bulldog" implies the possible existence of [[Wikipedia:bulldog|Earth's bulldog breed]].
*[[Wikipedia:Elephant|Elephant]]
**'''Hallucination-Baltar:''' "Start with the elephants..." ([[Downloaded]])
**William Adama has a tapestry depicting two elephants hanging in his quarters.
*[[Wikipedia:Goat|Goat]]
:'''Starbuck:''' "A horse. Why not a goat? I mean, that's good, right? Think of it as a goat." ([[Six Degrees of Separation]])
*[[Wikipedia:Gorilla|Gorilla]]
:'''Starbuck:''' "I'm gonna need some of those gorillas you call Marines." ([[Sacrifice]])
*[[Wikipedia:Horse|Horse]]
**'''Tyrol:''' "Take it for a ride. Treat it like a horse." ([[Six Degrees of Separation]])
**Helo and Sharon are in what looks like horse stables in "[[The Hand of God]]"
**A horse can be seen on a picture on the [[memorial hallway|memorial wall]] behind Kara Thrace in "[[Maelstrom]]"
*[[Wikipedia:Hare|Jackrabbit]]
:'''Starbuck''': "This is the Viper Mark II. It's as maneuverable as a jackrabbit and can flip end for end in .35 seconds." ([[Act of Contrition]])
*[[Wikipedia:Monkey|Monkey]]
:'''[[Cliff Hooper]]'s friend:''' "He's a real-deal war hero, Hoop. Can't be seen drinkin' with a bunch of low-life freight monkeys." ([[Scattered]], [[List of Deleted Scenes|deleted scene]])
*[[Wikipedia:Panther|Panther]]
:'''Adama:''' "I'm a [[Picon Panthers]] fan myself." ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])
*[[Wikipedia:Pig|Pig]]
:'''Phelan''': "Fisk was a pig. He tried to force us to renegotiate."
[[Image:UnnamedCapricanCities3.jpg|thumb|200px|right|Rats on Caprica ([[Bastille Day]]).]]
*[[Wikipedia:Rat|Rat]]
**'''Helo:''' Frakkin' rats! ([[Bastille Day]])
**:''Rats actually appear on screen in this episode.
**Another rat can be seen in "[[Litmus]]"''
*[[Wikipedia:Tiger|Tiger]]
:Gaeta reveals a [[tattoo]] of a tiger on his upper right chest in the episode "[[Final Cut]]".''

====Birds====
*[[w:Bird of prey|Birds of Prey]]
**While the animals have never been specifically mentioned, it's reasonable to assume the [[Raptor]] is named after them.
**Possibly a bird of prey is heard and mentioned by Tyrol and Socinus on Kobol ([[Valley of Darkness]]).
*[[w:Blackbird|Blackbird]]
:Namesake of the [[Blackbird]] experimental stealth fighter ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).
*[[w:Chicken|Chicken]]
**'''Cami:''' "We're going out for dinner, and I'm having chicken pie, and then we're going home, and then Daddy's going to read to me, and then I'm going to bed." ([[Miniseries]])
**Colonel Tigh imitates a chicken when mocking Starbuck's nickname, "Starbuck-buck-buck." ([[Miniseries]])
*[[w:Duck|Ducks]]
**'''Palacios''': "Wouldn't we be like ducks in a Cylon shooting gallery?" ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])
**"Duck" is the callsign of Lieutenant [[Tucker Clellan]] ("[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", "[[Scar]]", [[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance|"The Resistance" webisodes]])
*[[w:Geese|Geese]]
:'''Colonel Tigh''': "They're coming up with big goose eggs" ([[Water]])
*[[w:Parakeet|Parakeet]]
:'''Jammer:''' "I don't care if they put a giant parakeet in here. If the colonel says build a cell, we build a cell." ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]])
*[[w:Sparrow|Sparrow]]
:Colonial pilot jargon for a Cylon Raider ([[Maelstrom]]).
*[[w:Swallow|Swallow]]
:Namesake of the Colonial drone weapon, the [[Swallow]] ([[Occupation]]).
*[[w:Turkey|Turkey]]
:Colonial pilot jargon for a Cylon Heavy Raider ([[Maelstrom]]).
*[[w:Vulture|Vulture]]
:In a [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Downloaded|deleted scene]] from "[[Downloaded]]", [[Karl Agathon]] calls [[D'anna Biers]] a "stupid frakking vulture" after being notified of [[Hera]]'s alleged death.

====Reptiles====
*[[Wikipedia:Python|Python]]
:'''Adama:''' "Betrayal has such a powerful grip on the mind. It's almost like a python. You can squeeze out the thought, suffocate all other emotion until everything is dead except for the rage." ([[Home, Part I]])
*[[Wikipedia:Viper|Viper]]
:[[Laura Roslin]] has a vision of "serpents two and ten" as [[Pythia|prophesized]], which she and [[Elosha]] associate with the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] fighter craft ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

====Fish====
*[[Wikipedia:Salmon|Salmon]]
:'''Baltar:''' "There was an off-road bridge, over the Euclid river. I used to go there, when I was a boy. Watch the fish try and swim upstream. They were mesmerizing." ([[Home, Part I]])
:''What Baltar describes, without naming, are [[Wikipedia:Anadromous|anadromous]] fish - almost certainly a type of salmon.
*[[Wikipedia:Shark|Shark]]
:ECO [[Lyla Ellway|Lyla "Shark" Ellway]] ([[The Captain's Hand]]) presumably took her call-sign from these creatures.
*[[Wikipedia:Betta|Betta]] or [[Wikipedia:Guppy|Guppy]]
:When Six comes "home" to Baltar's house carrying the metal suitcase, one can see three different glasses on a table in the front of the scene. They contain only water and one living, small, long-finned, black fish each, a way aggressive [[Wikipedia:Siamese fighting fish|Siamese fighting fish]] are kept ([[Miniseries]]).

====Invertebrates====
*[[Wikipedia:Ant|Ant]]
:'''Crashdown:''' "Someone else feel like they have ants crawling behind their frakking eyeballs?" ([[33]])
*[[Wikipedia:Cockroach|Cockroach]]
:'''Starbuck:''' "...even a cockroach needs to breathe..." ([[You Can't Go Home Again]])
*[[Wikipedia:Oyster|Oyster]]
:'''Caprica-Sharon:''' "I remember the first day I met you, Starbuck. You were puking your guts out in the head after you ate some bad oysters." ([[Scattered]])

===Plants===
*[[Wikipedia:Apple|Apple]]
:'''Roslin:''' "I need you to send my ID code on the exact same frequency: D, as in dog, dash, 456, dash, 345, dash, A as in apple." ([[Miniseries]])
:''In the commentary for the [[Miniseries]], [[Ron Moore]] stated that the [[Armistice Officer|officer]] at [[Armistice Station]] was originally supposed to take out an apple and eat it while studying his notes; in keeping with the new series's emphasis on naturalism.''
*[[Wikipedia:Blueberry|Blueberry]]
:'''Starbuck:''' "You look like a blueberry." ([[Flight of the Phoenix]])
*[[Wikipedia:Burdock|Burdock]]
:Used by Sagittarons as a calmative ([[The Woman King]]).
*[[Wikipedia:Carrot|Carrot]]
:'''Baltar''': "Simply put, Admiral, you have already used the stick. It's time to use a carrot." ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]])
*[[Wikipedia:Celery|Celery]] ([[The Resistance]])
*[[Wikipedia:Coffea|Coffee plant]]
:'''Gaeta:''' "Seven other container ships are refusing to release their supplies. Food, medicine, even coffee." ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]])
*[[Wikipedia:Lemon|Lemon]]
:'''Col. Tigh''': "A couple of lemons, we could make lemonade". ([[Bastille Day]])
*[[Wikipedia:Licorice|Licorice]]
:'''Roslin:''' "Chamalla and licorice. Would you like some?" ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]])
*[[Wikipedia:Walnut|Walnut]]
:Adama cracks walnuts while going over potential CAGs in the episode "[[Home, Part I]]".
*[[Wikipedia:Beans|Beans]]
*[[Wikipedia:Maize|Maize]]
*[[Wikipedia:Peanut|Peanut]]
*[[Wikipedia:Chili pepper|Chili pepper]]
**In the episode "[[Sacrifice]]", Lee Adama's drink is decorated with a chili pepper.
:'''Helo:''' You hungry? I don't know, what do we got? Peanut butter... baked beans, corn. How about some chili? ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])
::''Helo is probably referring to the common [[Wikipedia:Haricot bean|Haricot bean]]''

==Official Statements==

*In an [http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm interview with BattlestarGalactica.com on December 28th, 2005] RDM was asked about the possibility of animals actually appearing in future episodes:

:"Q: [[Boxey (RDM)|Boxey]]'s been more or less written out of the series, but there's always a chance that we might one day see the return of [[Muffit]], or some other form of Man's Best Friend. Might we see the introduction of animals (including Cylon animals) into the Galactica universe? Where would Cylon animals fit in with the Cylon plan (especially in light of "[[The Farm]]")? Can Cylon animals reproduce?

:RDM: The presence of animals in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|rag-tag fleet]] was something that came up in early discussions, but we kinda dropped it from the conversation as the year went on. I don't know if we'll ever get around to doing something in this area or not. It mostly depends on finding a story that supports it in some interesting fashion other than [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] finds a kitty. I don't think the Cylons are creating animals as we would define them, but they certainly see the Raiders and other craft as animals vis a vis their relationship with the [[humanoid Cylon]]s."

''In a curious footnote to Moore's comment, eventually the character of Felix Gaeta finds not a kitty, but a [[Jake (New Caprica)|dog and his water dish]].''

[[Category:Animals|*]]
[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Battle of New Caprica

2007-05-19T14:32:46Z

Redwall:

{{Battle Data
| name=Battle of New Caprica
| image=BONC.jpg
| description=
| conflict=[[Cylon Attack|Second Cylon War]]
| date=
| place=Near [[New Caprica]] space; on New Caprica
| result=Successful retrieval of [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]], deposition of the [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] administration, [[Hera Agathon|Hera]] is captured by Cylons
| combatant1=Remnants of the [[Colonial Fleet]]
| combatant2=[[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]
| co1=Admiral [[William Adama]], Commander [[Lee Adama]], Colonel [[Saul Tigh]], Former President [[Laura Roslin]]
| co2=[[Basestar command]], [[Cylon Occupation Authority]]
| strength1=Battlestars ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' and '' [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', [[Blue Squadron (RDM)|Blue Squadron]], [[Raptor]] squadrons, [[New Caprica Resistance]] and Colonial [[Marines]]
| strength2=Four [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]], associated [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]], [[Heavy Raider]]s, Ground occupation forces and associated [[Cylon Centurion]]s
| shiploss1=Battlestar ''Pegasus'', several civilian ships (off screen), Heavy damage to ''Galactica''
| shiploss2=At least two basestars One basestar possibly destroyed Moderate damage to additional basestar
| casualties1=Approximately 2,000<ref>This number is calculated from all available population data. See the "Precipice" and "Collaborators" section of [[Survivor count]] for the details.</ref> 
| casualties2=Unknown, Heavy
| prev=[[Battle of the Binary Star System]]
| next=[[Battle of NCD2539]]
| rdm=y
}}
''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' launches a daring mission to occupy the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon force's]] attention as the majority of the Colonial citizens escape from Cylon occupation on [[New Caprica]].

Prior to the battle, Admiral [[William Adama]] makes contact with the [[New Caprica Resistance]], and later deploys a [[Raptor]], Lt. [[Sharon Agathon]] commanding, to coordinate a plan to liberate the colonists from the planet safely during the Colonial offensive. Agathon uses her [[Humanoid Cylon|Cylon heritage]] to retrieve the Colonial civilan ships' [[launch key]]s from a secured Cylon building, while [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]] train the colonists in "fire drills," meant to show readiness to the [[Cylon Occupation Authority]] in the event of a natural disaster, but in reality has prepared the colonists to escape to any Colonial ship to leave the planet and the Cylons.

Admiral Adama begins the offensive with an elaborate plan that relies on a squadron of [[Raptor]]s (with a [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] escort squadron) to fire a series of [[swallow]]s that collectively mimic the EM signatures of his two Colonial battlestars. After firing the swallows, the Raptors retreat, luring several [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raiders]] further from the planet. The Cylons are deceived temporarily by the false readings.

On [[New Caprica]], Samuel Anders and the resistance team detonate dozens of bombs in key Cylon structures as a feigned attack by Colonial forces. The people evacuate per their fire-drill training, but escape to the various grounded ships of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], which prepare their engines and [[FTL]] drives to depart. Many people become pinned down by [[Cylon Centurion|Centurion]] fire.

Admiral Adama performs an extremely risky move. He orders ''Galactica'' to conduct an intra-atmosphere [[FTL]] jump, escaping the detection of the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] in orbit. While in freefall, it launches [[Blue Squadron (RDM)|Blue Squadron]]. The [[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]] perform hit-and-run attacks on Cylons on the ground and in [[Guard towers|observation towers]], and interdict the few Raiders operating near the surface. Blue Squadron destroys the main gates of the civilian shipyard to allow access and escape. Before ''Galactica'' impacts the surface, it performs a second jump back into space. Stress from the vibration and ionized gases from reentry heavily tax the structure of the battlestar.

Soon, the two basestars engage ''Galactica'' without any fighter support, their Raiders engaged elsewhere. ''Galactica''’s mission analysis had predicted that only two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] would engage. However, two more basestars jump into the vicinity to attack the battlestar.

With the Vipers destroying targets on the ground and in the air in vicinity of New Caprica City, the civilians previously pinned down are able to board their ships. Simultaneously, Colonial [[Marines]] and resistance members assault the [[New Caprica Detention Center|detention center]], freeing [[Kara Thrace]] and other detainees.

The Cylons in charge on the ground begin their retreat, escaping in a Heavy Raider as they task a [[Number Three]] with setting off a nuclear detonation to "clean up."

In the four-baseship assault, ''Galactica's'' FTL drives and maneuvering thrusters are disabled, and the port side of the ship reaches its structural limits. Upon hearing that the FTL drive is disabled, Admiral Adama is resigned to imminent destruction when battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', against orders, appears and joins the attack. The [[Mercury class battlestar]]'s forward [[battery|batteries]] score several hits that severely damage or destroy one basestar. On the surface, most of the civilian ships become airborne and jump away.

Commander [[Lee Adama]] directs ''Pegasus'' to a position between the basestars targeting ''Galactica'', in an effort to draw fire away from her. Admiral Adama infers from the absence of Vipers from ''Pegasus'' that its Vipers are guarding the remaining ships of the Fleet at the rendezvous point and that ''Pegasus'' is on a one-way trip. While ''Pegasus'' endures serious bombardment, ''Galactica'' is able to bring its FTL back on line, retrieves her Vipers, and escapes.

With ''Pegasus'' taking mortal damage, Commander Adama orders all to abandon ship (using standby Raptors to jump away from the battle) setting all weapons to auto-fire and directing the ship on a collision course with one of the basestars before departing. The damaged, unmanned ''Pegasus'' collides with one basestar, destroying both. The remnants of ''Pegasus''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s starboard [[flight pod]] collide with another of the remaining basestars, destroying it.

''[[Colonial One]]'' is the last Colonial ship to leave the planet. On the surface, the Cylons' planned nuclear detonation (which would be of questionable tactical value now that the Colonials have left the planet) does not occur.

__NOTOC__
== Battle Imagery ==
=== Raptors and Vipers ===
<gallery>
Image:Vipers_and_Raptors_placing_decoys.jpg|
Image:Raptor_Decoys_Away.jpg|
Image:Raptor_Decoys_Away_(2).jpg|
Image:Raptor_Decoys_Away_(3).jpg|
</gallery>
=== ''Galactica'''s Surprise Attack ===
<gallery>
Image:Galactica_in_Atmosphere.jpg|
Image:Galactica_in_Atmosphere_(2).jpg|
Image:Galactica_in_Atmosphere_(3).jpg|
Image:Galactica_in_Atmosphere_FTLing.jpg|
Image:Galactica_in_Atmosphere_FTLing_(2).jpg|
</gallery>
=== ''Pegasus’s'' Suicide Run ===
<gallery>
Image:Pegaus_Ram.jpg|
Image:Pegaus_Ram_(2).jpg|
Image:Pegaus_Ram_(3).jpg|
Image:Pegasusflightpod.jpg|
Image:Pegasusbaseshipsremains.jpg|
</gallery>

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[de:Schlacht von Neu Caprica]]

{{Battles (RDM)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

{{featured article}}

Quotes:11 28

2006-11-28T21:41:46Z

Redwall:

'''Sergeant [[Hadrian]]:''' Corporal of the guard, restrain the witness and return him to his chair. 
'''Commander [[William Adama]]:''' Your orders are to escort Sergeant Hadrian back to her quarters and keep her in confinement until further notice. Make your choice, son. 
'''Corporal:''' Sergeant Hadrian, will you come with us please? 
--''[[Litmus]]''

Portal talk:Cylons/Current Humanoid Cylons

2006-03-17T12:11:04Z

Redwall:

The seal of the Twelve Colonies isn't exactly the best image to use a placeholder here. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:39, 17 March 2006 (CST)
: I was looking for a silowite (I have no idea how to spell it.) I have one, but it's Star Trek releated. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 02:41, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:: Silouette? Like, of an anonymous person? I bet we could find one pretty easy... I may know a place, and know the guy who made the image, so we wouldn't have to worry about ownership. I'll see what I can come up with. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:45, 17 March 2006 (CST)
::: Ah yes. :) Silhouette. Cool. Just make sure the image is still 70x50. Peter, nice idea with the links and the a.k.a. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 02:47, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::: Well, I found the [http://www.texastrombones.net/images/unknown.jpg one I was thiking of], but it sucks. Maybe I should just GIMP up a brand new one. It could just be some shot of, like, Doral or someone, outlined. What about back-ground color, though? Grey or something? White? Any ideas? --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:52, 17 March 2006 (CST)
:::: A light grey. Very suttle. Maybe we should just make it "gender" generic. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 02:55, 17 March 2006 (CST)
:::: Looks good! --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 03:07, 17 March 2006 (CST)
:::::[[Image:Anonymous2.png]] This is based on what Apple uses for their address book in OS X. I wonder if we could cook up something similar. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:11, 17 March 2006 (CST)

:::::: Well, it's better than the one I just made and uploaded. However, mine has the added benefit of, as a joke, being based on a shot of Billy from the Miniseries. *wink* We could, if people think we'd be in the clear as far as ownership of images is concerned, use the prettier Apple one and simply reverse the colors (or change the white to black and the black to a light grey like the one I made). Also, edit the correct dimensions. Peter... You said you were going to bed. Do it now. --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:15, 17 March 2006 (CST)
::::::: Doesn't matter to me. I thought your Day was fine. (I knew Billy was a Cylon! lol) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 03:18, 17 March 2006 (CST)
::::::: Well, we can't use the one I uploaded due to copyright reasons. I was just trying to illustrate what I had in mind. And of course by "sleep" I meant "stay up late not writing an overdue paper that I absolutely must finish by tomorrow morning." --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:20, 17 March 2006 (CST)

Image stretching = bad. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 06:11, 17 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II/Archive2

2006-03-12T19:54:43Z

Redwall: /* 6's credits voiceover */

== The Cliffhanger ==

I'm betting that Baltar's little gift to the [[Demand Peace]] movement makes its way to ''Pegasus'' and is about to destroy or mortally damage the battlestar in this season closer. Mortally damaging it makes more sense to allow ''Galactica'' (and the show) to gather some of the new resources that ''Pegasus'' brought before it has to be removed from the picture. Perhaps, in coordination with a probable Cylon attack, ''Pegasus'' may end up doing a "[[The Living Legend, Part II|Commander Cain charge]]" at the start of Season 3. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:52, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:Looks like I picked one hell of a week to quite drinking...--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:02, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::Is it just me, or does the second season seem to be bouncing from cliffhanger to cliffhanger, with the in-between episodes being nothing but filler? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:08, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:::It isn't just you... Looks like I picked one hell of a week to quit sniffing glue. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 12:22, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::I don't mind the "filler" episodes. I believe you need them to set up future stories down the road. I believe PEGASUS will stick around for one or two episodes next year(Gives them time to strip her down)....Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines!--[[User:Quig|Quig]] 16:36, 15 February 2006 (EST)

There's no cliffhanger, really. The Cylons win, humanity is occupied and the ships of the fleet are essentially empty with everyone down on Cylon-occupied New Caprica. The show is completely different from here on out. Cloud Nine is gone (which from a production standpoint makes sense--- no need for a planet-like ship when they have an actual planet) and all the leads but Lee, Adama and possibly Sharon are on the planet, hoping not to be killed by their new Cylon overlords. It's awesome. Oh, girlBilly seems to be sticking around as a character as well. [[User:numbertwelve|numbertwelve]]

:You have no idea; that's just fanfic. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:11, 24 February 2006 (EST)

::Could one or the other of you please explain what that last enormous edit-and-reversion was all about? Numbertwelve, have you seen the episode in question? Are you passing on reports from other sources, and if so, can you identify them? Merv, are you familiar with a fanfic that resembles his description? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:18, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:::Well, it sounds like he was just posting his own ''guesses/fanfic ideas'' without any basis on actual material, so I cleaned it up. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:31, 24 February 2006 (EST)
::::I believe that the info is coming from [http://greycoupon.livejournal.com/3808.html BIG SPOILERS]. Don't know the validity of it though.
:::::Based on the what I've read of the Part I summary, I'd say that the information was actually accurate. That said, I'm not sure this site really wants to post detailed episode summaries before the episode has actually aired anywhere, especially when we have no way of confirming the source.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 10:35, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:::::: In all likelihood, numbertwelve's comments stem from [http://www.patriotresource.com/bg/insights/spoilers/season2b.html here]. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 03:24, 8 March 2006 (CST)

::::::: Judging by that picture, I think those spoilers might be right, though I seriously hope they are dead wrong, anyone else hope this? --[[User:LeobenConoy|LeobenConoy]] 02:30, 10 March 2006 (TST)

:::::::: It certainly would be a heck of a sharp turn for the series, but, y'know, I'm OK with that. RDM really kinda needs to keep making sharp turns to keep the series from falling too much into the established track of the Original Series, for one thing. For another thing, I like surprises :-) I don't want this story to become too predictable. Actually, when I look back over the two seasons to date, RDM et alia have not allowed us to settle into anything like a routine for more than a few episodes before they kick over the tables again. That's a good thing. That said, if the spoilers are in fact correct...it's going to be a long six months 'til we find out how the situation resolves itself...--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 11:12, 9 March 2006 (CST)

::::::::: Well, actually, [[user:numbertwelve|numbertwelve]] was right! I don't know who he/she is, but (s)he knew what'll happen exactly in ''[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]'' Anyway, it's the best ep so far! --[[User:Nyiz|Nyiz]] 16:14, 11 March 2006 (CST)

== The Peace Proposal ==

I haven't actually seen "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]", yet (I don't have cable, so I'm basically watching via DVD as time allows), but reading the summary, I see no mention of the Cylon peace proposal in the story as aired. It looks as though the preliminary data for the episodes was somewhat misleading, and that the peace proposal won't come until Part II. The Part II article, however, still reflects the old information. Should this be changed now? Or just wait for Friday's airing and the full summary?--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 10:32, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Speechless ==
Holy crap they turned everything on its head. I can't think of a better way of stating the obvious. ONE YEAR LATER!?!?!? Crap. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 22:15, 10 March 2006 (CST)
:Yep...and we'll have to wait about that frakkin' long to find out WTF happens next...:)
[[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 22:23, 10 March 2006 (CST)
:Well, look at it this way - if they ever want to bring [[Boxey (RDM)|Boxey]] back due to chronology issues, they now have an excuse. Actually, I'm surprised they didn't have the character (if not the actor) doing a cameo in the schooltent.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 23:23, 10 March 2006 (CST)
::I personally was asking, "Where's the kicker?" Well, nothing like a second Cylon occupation to do that for you. As for October...hell, they haven't even started shooting the season yet. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 22:32, 10 March 2006 (CST)
:::You really have to find it pretty ironic that Baltar's fraked over the Colonies again. He gives Gina the bomb, fraks her, she blows up Cloud 9 (and Gods know how many ships she took with her in that blast) and Baltar forces everyone to colonize the plantet... and the Cylons find it because of the nuclear blast. How's that for a kicker? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:36, 10 March 2006 (CST)
:::Katee Sackhoff has to grow out her hair. She can't keep using that wig all season. Well, and the writers haven't figured out what the hell they're going to do now :P [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:06, 10 March 2006 (CST)
::::I'm not sure when this episode was filmed, but she still has a month to go before they start shooting Season 3, according to SciFi. I'm sure Moore and friends have plenty of ideas to go with. The questions posted for this episode should give some possible ideas, if they even read this thing. :P --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:22, 10 March 2006 (CST)
That was totally awesome. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:37, 11 March 2006 (CST)
: I was on pins and needles the entire time. It was so good! --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 11:56, 11 March 2006 (CST)

== Well Then... ==

Wasn't that something. I glanced over the rumors prior, but it has to be seen to get the real effect. That, and I was hoping they were dead wrong. --[[User:Michael|Michael]] 22:16, 10 March 2006 (CST)
:I thought generally the execution of these spoilers was much better than my expections. --[[User:Gougef|Frankie Gouge]] 00:10, 11 March 2006 (EST)

== "Rampant speculation" re Starbuck/Conoy connection ==

I don't think that the ''analysis'' section is the place for something with little backing... at least currently.

: ''Although this is rampant speculation, given the warped obsession/relationship that Leoben has with Starbuck, is it possible that Starbuck's stolen egg cells from "[[The Farm]]" were fertilized with genetic material from the Leoben model to create a new Hybrid? The Cylons do seem to think she's "special".''

Anyone agree or disagree? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:00, 10 March 2006 (CST)

: To expand my point further, ''Conoy'' believed that Starbuck was special. Just because Conoy is a Cylon doesn't mean the ''Cylons'' share his belief. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:00, 10 March 2006 (CST)

No arguements here. I've always been fuzzy on the exact parameters of the "analysis" section, however, this thought occurred to me when I remembered that A) They said that Starbuck's missing ovaries would be mentioned before the end of the season, B) It's going to be a major plot point in season 3.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:03, 10 March 2006 (CST)

: Well, in keeping with the original inspiration for the Wiki -- The Lurker's Guide to B5 -- the analysis section has always analyzed the episode. For instance, what the episode had to say, how that fit in to the grand tapestry, how that fit into real life, and things of that nature. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:12, 10 March 2006 (CST)

::Long live the Lurkers guide! Best guide ever. There's also a B5 wiki being created (see my user page for the link). --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:25, 10 March 2006 (CST)

== DubyaBaltar ==

I'd never put this in the actual wiki article, but does it strike anyone else who many jabs they're getting it at another ridiculously incompetent president? "I don't have to listen to the facts...I'm the president". etc. ''Remember, Remember the Fifth of November''.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:08, 10 March 2006 (CST)
: Though I don't think GWB has harems. Mr. Nice Gaius seems to have him beat there. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:11, 10 March 2006 (CST)
:I thought it was a reference to Roslin and Adar's statements about "the nice thing about being President..." --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 23:13, 10 March 2006 (CST)
::Well, Adar said that first. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:15, 10 March 2006 (CST)
:::Plus, Baltar was good friends with Adar prior to the attack. The womanizing was just good 'ol self-serving Baltar. And, when was Gaius ever nice? --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:28, 10 March 2006 (CST)
::::See the dialogue section of [[Six Degrees of Separation]] for your answer Sgtpayne. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:31, 10 March 2006 (CST)
:::::Just checked the page requested, and I'm not sure that's helping the argument. The statement is defensive in nature. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:37, 10 March 2006 (CST)
::::::It's not an argument, it's an explanation as to why we're calling him "Mr. Nice Gaius". [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 20:51, 11 March 2006 (CST)

== Does anyone remember... ==

... that crack Cottle made to Cally regarding women talking * (Actually, the good Doctor said "Complain") even when their jaws are wired shut? If so, we should note it under the dialogue section and perhaps on Cottle's page (he seems to have a penchant for sexist dialogue). -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:18, 10 March 2006 (CST)
:You know, Joe, I don't know why you point out "Cottle made a sexist remark here" the times that he does (Downloaded, etc.) I mean that's the type of character he is. I mean, we wouldn't list off "well, Archie Bunker did this sexist thing" in an ''All in the Family'' episode guide. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:22, 10 March 2006 (CST)
::Good point. Still, since it is a part of his personality, I believe it should be noted appropriately. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:29, 10 March 2006 (CST)
:Got it. On a side note, there are lots of ''really'' sexist things Cottle could have said about a woman who can't open her mouth, so maybe he should get some credit for holding back... --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 10:39, 11 March 2006 (CST)
::None of us, neither the show or any users here, had even had that implication at any time enter our minds. Complete non sequitor. Disgusting to bring up such crudeness, Mr.JohnH. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 11:38, 11 March 2006 (CST)

==Source?==

"Tyrol's union speech alludes to Mario Savio's address during the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in 1964."-->Can I get confirmation on that?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:22, 10 March 2006 (CST)

:[http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Mario_Savio This is confirmed]. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:34, 10 March 2006 (CST)

::Thanks. Great that the show is so political.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:41, 10 March 2006 (CST)

:::I don't think it's political as much as it is human. This is [[Wikipedia: Naturalistic science fiction|"naturalistic" science fiction]], after all. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:56, 10 March 2006 (CST)

==Gina's Scars==
We can clearly see that Gina's back is still badly scarred from her treatment on ''Pegasus'' in this episode. However, I seem to recall her back being completely healed in "Epiphanies". Can anybody confirm? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:02, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:Er, they're on her lower/mid back, while when she was wearing the tank top, you could only see her upper shoulder blades. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 11:42, 11 March 2006 (CST)

==Playa==
At the end of the episode (near the surrender), I thought I saw [[Playa Palacios|"Miss Exclusive"]], though it may have just been a similar-looking blonde. Can someone check this? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 11:02, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:She's not in the credits. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 15:03, 11 March 2006 (CST)

==Survivor count==
There's a drop of 29 between part 1 and 2: "''A more reasonable explanation is that there was a late update in the survivor count that took into account those who died off-screen during the Cylon attack on the Pegasus in "[[The Captain's Hand]]". Soldiers who are killed are often listed as MIA (Missing in Action) until they can be confirmed as KIA (Killed in Action). In the aftermath of the attack on the Pegasus, it would have taken a while to determine the exact number of crewmen and pilots killed. Also, there were probably a number of crewmen who died from injuries afterwards. As a result, a delay in updating the survivor count is quite likely''"--->No. The survivor count at the beginning of ''Part 1'' would have accounted for these losses. Part 2 takes place weeks, maybe even 2 months past "Captain's Hand"; even "[[Downloaded]]" comes in before there. 2 episodes and about 2 months passed, and we saw no further losses from Captain's Hand beyond the 5 on screen. And the Survivor Count is omniscient. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 15:05, 11 March 2006 (CST)
: Once would assume that the Fleet has it share of black market thugs and suicidal people... Not everything has to be Cylon related. Just a thought. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:22, 11 March 2006 (CST)
::Yes, and I have always argued as such...but then that makes the static pop count from end of Captain's Hand through LDYB part I unrealistic itself. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:24, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:::Well, one would assume that people are reported as missing prior to being reported as dead. Hence the seemingly unrealistic count changes. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:32, 11 March 2006 (CST)

::::Even though I STILL think those losses are most likely late figures from "[[The Captain's Hand]]" (I'm not going to argue about this), another possible reason for the drop could be the results of election-related riots/murders. Stuff like that happens. Either that or the writers just screwed up.--[[User:GreenDalek|GreenDalek]] 16:45, 11 March 2006 (CST)

:::::And, ultimately, that is the problem... it's all about '''thought''', not '''fact'''. Until we know for certain why these variances occur (and why they register when they do), we could think about it until our brains cry for more oxygen. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 16:58, 11 March 2006 (CST)

:::::Judging by our current standards and conventions, and just logic, no, it is impossible for these to be "left over" number from 3 full episodes ago. Think what you want, but don't add it back to the page. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 17:49, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:::::: Just keep in mind, the "omniscient" Survivor Count is controlled by the writers just like everything else. And writers do make mistakes occasionally. Besides what other plausible explanations are there?--[[User:GreenDalek|GreenDalek]] 22:41, 11 March 2006 (CST)

== Cloud Nine bodycount. ==

Am I going completely fuzzy-headed here, or is the fact that Cloud Nine was destroyed before the transition to New Caprica being completely overlooked.
''
*How many people died in the Cloud Nine explosion?
**The Cloud Nine explosion also destroyed ships near it. Given the stated size of the New Caprica population along with subtracting the minimal crew sizes needed to maintain the ships in orbit, you can estimate that approximately 3000 to 5000 people died.
***Actually, we have no idea how many people were still crewing the civilian ships in the Fleet when Galactica and Pegasus jumped away, so it could actually have been thousands less than that.''

The answers to the questions, as I remember what I saw, are completely irrelivant. Noone was colonizing the planet yet.
Or am I completely loosing my mind [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 02:09, 12 March 2006 (CST)
*No, you're quite sane. Admiral Adama had ordered the first teams to New Caprica just before the commercial break, Baltar's last night with Gina, the inauguration, and the blast. There probably wouldn't have been more than a handful of raptor teams on the surface at the time--not enough to make any appreciable dent in the population figures. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 09:51, 12 March 2006 (EST).

== Where should this error go? ==
When we see it parked on the surface of New Caprica, [[Colonial One]] was missing the Colonial/presidential seal that we've seen before on its port side. Nobody would have scraped it off the hull. I know the people down there are desperate for resources, but ''paint chips''? --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 09:56, 12 March 2006 (EST)
:Well the real answer is that they crew just plain old forgot to put it in the model, but forcontinuity's sake, it could be hypothesized that someone discontent with the Baltar Administration scraped off the seal in the middle of the night as if to say 'this man isn't fit to have the presidential seal on his office/spaceship.' --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 13:18, 12 March 2006 (CST)
::I'd prefer to eschew the fanwankery and note it as the continuity glitch it is. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:28, 12 March 2006 (CST)

== 6's credits voiceover ==
Should it be part of this episode? It seems that there is no discussion of it here or anywhere else. -- [[User:Gougef|Frankie Gouge]] 14:426, 12 March 2006 (EST)
:That was a commercial for Season 3, not part of this episode. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 13:54, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II

2006-03-12T14:44:42Z

Redwall: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Burdens2.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 20
| Guests= [[Richard Hatch]] ([[Tom Zarek]]) [[Kate Vernon]] ([[Ellen Tigh]]) [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] ([[Cavil|Brother Cavil]])
| Writer=[[IMDB:nm1093194|Anne Cofell Saunders]], [[IMDB:nm0894156|Mark Verheiden]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= March 10, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= 49,550
| Prev= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]
| Next= TBA
}}

== Overview ==

: ''Everything turns on its head as the survivors vote for a new president -- and vote for their fate.''

== Summary ==

===On Caprica===

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]], the marines, and the [[resistance (movement)|resistance]] continue to take fire from Cylon centurions and artillery. They make their way up a hill, and hold their position.
*The Cylons hold fire, and Sharon remarks that the Cylons will attempt to capture them with non-lethal weapons, such as gas.
*Eighteen hours later, they emerge to find that the Cylons have disappeared. [[Cavil]] -- who suddenly appears behind them -- announces that the Cylons have left the Twelve Colonies and that humanity was spared.

===In the Fleet===

*[[Cally]] is cleared back to work by [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]], despite having her jaw wired shut (which elicits a sexist observation from the doctor). [[Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] visits her, apologizing for the attack. Cally forgives him, saying that she's always cared for him.

*[[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]] continues to gain in the polls. On ''[[Colonial One]]'', Tory mentions there's always a victory plan. [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] later calls a private meeting with Dr. Baltar, asking to deliver a joint statement of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_%28verb%29 tabling] the issue of colonization until after the election, which Baltar rejects.

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] returns to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', with the resistance fighters, much to the delight of Admiral Adama. She mentions the fact that the Cylons have left Caprica, and a man appearing to be Brother Cavill confirms it. He also says he has a message, but is attacked by Chief Tyrol, claiming he's a Cylon. Both Cavill and Caprica-Sharon are escorted to the brig under marine guard.

*The other Cavill (from last episode) is also taken to the brig, claiming he's not a Cylon, but changes his tune upon seeing his "brother", as he calls him. Both Cavills then talk about the fact that the “war heroes” (Caprica Six & ''Galactica''-Sharon) have talked about how the attack of the colonies and the pursuit of the fleet were mistakes. They were told to relay the message that man and Cylon will go their separate ways. Both Roslin and Admiral Adama are less than trusting regarding the message.

*Election Day has arrived and Baltar has an apparent five thousand-vote lead over Roslin with only a few ships left. On ''Colonial One'', Tory makes a call to ''Galactica'', putting a plan into action.

*Amazingly, Roslin initially appears to have retained the presidency. While most are celebrating, Lt. Gaeta makes a startling discovery regarding the votes, and informs the Admiral that Col. Tigh may be involved in a conspiracy to throw the election.

*Admiral Adama confronts Roslin regarding the conspiracy, saying he has a confession to rig the vote. Roslin admits her involvement and Adama is disappointed.

*Baltar is informed of his election as President. He's less than pleased, vowing to have full investigation in time. President-elect Baltar then orders a course for “New Caprica”.

*[[Gaius Baltar]] is sworn in as the new President of the Twelve Colonies, and orders the immediate colonization of New Caprica.

*''[[Cloud 9]]'' is destroyed by a nuclear blast, Gina being present before the explosion; in addition to the ''Cloud 9'', at least two other ships are destroyed in the blast. Admiral Adama reports to the president that this may be a Cylon attack, but Baltar ignores him and presses forward with colonization.

===One Year Later===

*[[Felix Gaeta|Mr. Gaeta]] is reporting to the President regarding a Union issue aboard Colonial One, now down on the planet. Baltar is upset, saying there have been no Cylon attacks but the people still complain. He has regressed, turning to alcohol, medication, and womanizing.

*Admiral Adama, now donning a mustache, is walking around a near-empty Galactica, the ship falling into disarray. Over half of the crew has moved down to the planet, and they are running on such a skeleton crew that they barely have enough pilots to fly training missions, much less a good CAP. Adama has a discussion with Tigh about going down to the planet, which Tigh reluctantly agrees to.

*[[Samuel Anders|Anders]], now Kara’s husband, is sick with pneumonia. Dr. Cottle is saying he can’t do much for him, saying there are no antibiotics available, but he is young and healthy, and with a little luck he "should" pull through.

*Kara runs into the Tighs as [[Tyrol]], now a union boss, is making a speech to begin a strike, a pregnant Cally by his side. Saul mentions that ''Pegasus'' keeps the backup medical supplies and that Apollo would spring some for Starbuck. Starbuck disagrees, which prompts Tigh to state that Apollo would be "over that by now".

*Roslin is doing what she does best, teaching the settlement's school, and manages to find enjoyment in her old position. [[Maya]] is with her, as is the now one year old [[Hera]], whom Maya has named "Isis".

*Kara calls Lee aboard ''Pegasus'', requesting the antibiotics. Lee's gained a lot of weight in the past year. Dualla is now an officer, serving by Lee Adama's side in ''Pegasus''' CIC. Before Lee can reply, Dualla catches something on [[DRADIS]].

*A fleet of [[Cylon]] [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s arrive in orbit around New Caprica. The Adamas are having a discussion about what to do, when [[Helo]] asks if alert fighters should be launched. Admiral Adama keeps them in as the defense fleet jumps away.

*Mr. Gaeta informs the President of the Cylon approach. Later, before his assembled staff, copies of Number [[Number Five|5]], [[Number Eight|8]], and [[Number Six|6]] approach the President. The Cylons declare that as long as there’s no resistance, no harm will come. President Baltar declares surrender on behalf of the colonists, and as Cylon armies occupy the planet, Kara vows to resist.

== Questions ==

*What "number" is Cavil?
*Was Roslin's threat to put the two Cavils into space actually carried out?
**Most likely not, she had the election on her mind, much to do, and didn't actually make it an order. Baltar would have been unlikely to vent them into space.
*Where did the defense fleet jump to?
**Likely a prearranged rendezvous point, similar to that of the miniseries.
*Where is Caprica-Sharon?
**Most likely, still in ''Galactica'''s brig. This is probably why Helo is still aboard ship, having taken a CIC officer's position.
**In the podcast, Ron Moore vaguely hinted that they hadn't forgotten about Sharon, but that we'd have to "wait and see". Apparently, several of the early season 3 episodes will have flashbacks dealing with events that took place in the year that passed.
*What happened to Zarek?
*Why is Leoben looking for Starbuck, specifically?
** Could it be the same [[Leoben Conoy]] that Starbuck interrogated in "[[Flesh and Bone]]"?
*** As seen with ''Galactica''-Sharon, it is distinctly possible that that particular Leoben was lying when he said he'd actually die and not download.
** It is likely that, as the only escapee from [[The Farm]], they are interested in continuing with her. After all, there was an incision, and something had changed with her.
*Why has the population (until Tyrol's recent union speech) accepted Baltar's imperious rule? People were hardly so passive under Roslin. Indeed, Adama executed a military coup over a rather less important issue than giving a nuclear weapon to a Cylon agent.
**Admiral Adama wasn't conclusive as to how the weapon got on board Cloud Nine.
**Baltar pointed out there have been no attacks since he took office. Under Roslin the attacks were common. Perhaps for a year the people decided they preferred the safety Baltar gave them to their liberties.
**They did vote them in, and perhaps the struggle of trying to survive on this planet is distracting their attention, i.e. at first they weren't sure how much to blame on Baltar, or on the simple struggle of trying to rebuild. Howevever, it hasn't been a particularly smooth or easy presidency, as shown by the recent Union strike.
*Are the Six and Eight that Baltar surrendered to [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]]?
**Judging from Six's reaction to Baltar, almost definitely.
*Where did the Cylon fleets go, after they left the Twelve Colonies? Cavil was deliberately vague when asked if they simply returned to the [[Cylon homeworld]].
*Did the nuclear bomb ever get picked up by the fleet's radiological alarms?
*How many people died in the Cloud Nine explosion?
**The Cloud Nine explosion also destroyed ships near it. Given the stated size of the New Caprica population along with subtracting the minimal crew sizes needed to maintain the ships in orbit, you can estimate that approximately 3000 to 5000 people died.
*When Gina-Six was instantly vaporized due to being only two feet from a nuclear detonation, did she still transmit her consciousness? Was she even capable of transmitting considering that any internal hardware responsible for this task would have been instantly destroyed?
**They have already established that with the [[Resurrection Ship]] destroyed, Cylons in the fleet that are killed will ''actually'' die. Gina expressed suicidal impulses as early as "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]".
**Additionally, since the Cylons found the planet due to the radiation, it is unlikely that Gina was resurrected, as she then would have told the Cylons the location of the planet.
*Given Roslin's memories of Baltar with Six, why didn't Admiral Adama suspect Baltar of handing over the nuke to the cylons? If he did suspect him, why not act on it?
**He had no real proof.
*Did the events of "One Year Later" actually happen, or were they a dream or vision sequence given to Baltar?
**Although Baltar has had elaborate visions in the past, this vision left Baltar's point of view several times, addressing issues such as the marriage of Kara to Sam Anders and Adama's friendship with Tigh that are of little knowledge or importance to Baltar.
***Ron D. Moore has stated in interviews that the first 4-5 episodes of season 3 will deal with the Cylon occupation of New Caprica, and unless a vast swath of episodes is going to be a dream sequence, all of these "one year later" events ''really'' happen.
***Moore actually discusses this in the podcast, saying that many people might just assume this is a dream, or a ''Dallas''-like season-erasing shower-dream episode, but he thought it was a bold decision to jump ahead a full year, and have all of it be definitely real.
*Why was it so easy for Adama to hide the collusion of the rigged election from the press, and why were there no consequences?
**So far as we know, Adama, Tigh, Gaeta, Dualla, Dualla's two associates, Tory, and Roslin are the only people that knew; 6 are military personnel, 4 of whom would be implicated, and the other 2 were directly involved civilians. All are strongly motivated to conceal the information.
* Why would it take the Cylons over one year to find New Caprica, alerted by the nuclear detonation prior to the inhabitation of the planet?
**It was stated in the previous episode that the interference from the gas cloud surrounding it would hide the planet fairly well. The Cylons were slightly over a light year away, according to the Number Five. Searching something as large as the gas cloud likely is for a planet or fleet is, given the sensor range limitations, quite impressive to accomplish in months, even with general directional information from a light-year out.
***Actually with the Cylon base 1 light year away, it would take 1 year for the nuke to show up on the Cylon sensors. Short of some FTL communication system, that's the only way the Cylons would have been able to detect the planet. Since the fleet is all in within non-FTL distances, all the FTL devices, if any exist would likely have been destroyed or disabled.
*If the Cylons really left the Twelve Colonies, leaving behind a nuked-out wasteland, what happened to all of the human captives in the [[Farms]]?
**Has it really been established that all that remains of the colonies are nuked-out wastelands? Yes, it's clear that they were nuked from the mini-series, yet in more recent episodes, it's also clear that the Cylons have been rebuilding them, in particular Caprica. The comment is bizarre in that Admiral Adama would know this as well, given the return of Anders who no doubt gave a full account of his experiences.
***Adama and Roslin appeared to be questioning the Cavils immediately after the Caprica copy was detained, leaving no time for Anders' debriefing.
*Why have the Cylons returned? According to [[Cavil]], the two races were to go their "separate ways". The Cylons may have been worried about the humans retaliating at some point in the future, but the location of the Cylon world(s) is still unknown to the humans, so ensuring the safety of their society presumably isn't the motive behind the occupation of [[New Caprica]].
**This assumes that the Cylons were being honest in their announcement of withdrawl from all Human contact and association. It is possible that this was a tactical feint and the Cylons went looking for possible alternate locations where the Humans could have resettled.
*Did the Cavils lie about the pursuit of humanity being a mistake? Or were they telling the truth?
** If they were telling the truth, perhaps not all Cylons are readily able to admit and rectify their mistakes as the Cavils believed.
** It seems that the intent was truthful, given that Caprica-Six and Sharon are taking an active leadership role in this new occupation. What seems unclear is how their positions has changed from Downloaded, where they clearly felt that the Cylon destruction of humanity was wrong. This is especially so for Sharon, who still considered herself human. Why would she go along willingly with this new course of action of occupation and presumably other forms of experimentation.
*Will the Cylons resume their pursuit of the Fleet?
*How many people are left in the Fleet?
**The population of New Caprica City is given as 39,192. There were just under 50,000 people in the Fleet before establishing the settlement, so that gives a figure of roughly 10,000 missing. It is uncertain how many were killed in the destruction of Cloud 9 and surrounding Fleet ships but this loss along with any births and deaths that have taken place during the year since the election, leaves very few military personnel in the Orbital Defense. This almost certainly means that both ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' will be extremely short on crew, as many military personnel will have been left on the planet. There was clearly no time to retrieve even selected members of the crews before the Fleet jumped.
***Will the Adamas resort to Cain's tactic of conscripting civilians to fill the gaps?
*What happened between Apollo and Starbuck?
**Colonel Tigh mentioned an incident that happened "a long time ago" that would prevent Apollo from giving antibiotics to Starbuck. When she contacted him aboard ''Pegasus'', he seemed very much not to want to talk to her.
***Problems may have arisen due to possible jealousy of Anders.
***What about all the mean stuff she said to Apollo when she was drunk, about him and Dee?

== Analysis ==
*Baltar's arrogance seems to have led to corrupt rule during his year on New Caprica—he replaces Roslin's modest desk with a larger, elaborate one, replaces the population count whiteboard with a portrait of himself, and keeps a harem aboard the landed Colonial One.
*After a whole year, everyone is still living in tents. There is a vital shortage of medicine, the military is of no use, and labor conditions are apparently intolerable. Baltar's administration is apparently as incompetent as Roslin feared.
**It is not clear whether these conditions are the result of admimistrative incompetence or the inherent difficulties of colonizing a marginally habitable planet.
***Of course, it was Baltar's idea to settle on a marginally habitable planet in the first place.
*It's ironic that the obligations of duty keep Lee Adama aboard Pegasus while everyone else goes planetside—he is a reserve officer, and promised to build his pilots a bar as soon as they found a habitable planet.
*Ron Moore has once again decided to play with viewer's expectations; in the podcast for "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" Moore commented on how everyone assumed that ''Pegasus'' would be destroyed by the end of the episode, and thus he thought it would be a good twist to keep ''Pegasus'' alive as another ship in the Fleet. Here, many viewers assumed that the nuke that Baltar gave to Gina in "[[Epiphanies]]" would be used to destroy ''Pegasus'' this time, but it wasn't.
*29 people died between this episode and the preceding one? One or two Raptors were lost, and some Marines died on Caprica, but that doesn't seem high enough.
**Is it possible they took out all of the people who left in the raptors because they were not apart of the fleet at the end of the previous episode?
***They didn't remove Starbuck from the count when she left for Caprica at the beginning of Season 2.
****She left at the end of season one, before they started the count. But, they did not add her to the count when she returned with Helo, because the count rose by one.
**Maybe more people died during the attack on Caprica than was shown.
***Yet another possibility is the inclusion of the Caprica survivors in the count to offset many of the losses that had incurred in the rescue mission.
***Although they didn't actually talk about the losses, there was a shot of a wounded person being taken away on a stretcher after the Raptors returned from the [[Caprica]] [[SAR]] mission.
**There may have been a series of election-related riots or murders.

== Notes ==
* '''According to Ron Moore's podcast, although Scifi Channel was willing to air this episode as a 90-minute special, it had to be heavily edited down for international distribution; outside of the United States, viewers will only see a 1 hour version of the episode, which Moore regards as "almost incomprehensible".''' Many plot threads, such as the entire Cally/Tyrol subplot, were completely removed from the one hour version.
* Ron Moore's podcast for episode 13, [[Epiphanies]], states that the Nuke given to Gina will come back in this episode, to the benefit of the Cylons.
*In RDM's podcast for the previous episode, he said that in early drafts of this special 90 minute long episode, the writers actually tried to make it a 2 hour special, but this was soon dropped (these times are including commercials).
*The election board appears to have a definitive list of the names of all of the ships in [[The Fleet (RDM)]]. Not all of them are clearly visible, but this would seem to indicate that the writers do have an actual list that they get new ship names from. Ship names visible on the chart are: Demetrius, Diomedes, Embla Brokk, Enkidu, Epheme, Galactica, Gideon, Gemenon Traveller, Greenleaf, Monarch, Odysseus, Pegasus, Persephone, Prometheus, Swordfish
*The framed photo of President Roslin and [[Billy Keikeya]] was still on her desk during the election.
*When Roslin "won" the rigged election results, Roslin received 24,265 votes, while Baltar recieved 22,266. This means that the elligible voters in the Fleet number 46,531. In the podcast, RDM explains that he quickly came up with these numbers, to try to reflect roughly how many survivors are below the voting age.
*Toward the end of the episode, President Baltar refers to a government body called the "People's Council". This may be the proportionally elected lower house mentioned in by RDM in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 blog post] on January 30, 2005.
*[[Hera]] is seen on New Caprica in the same white cradle that Baltar had a vision of her being in in "[[Scattered]]", etc. According to RDM's podcast it's actually the exact same cradle.
*Tyrol's union speech is an almost word for word quote of Mario Savio's address during the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in 1964. According to Ron Moore and David Eick in the podcast, they even got permission from Savio's widow to use it (even though, due to the way copyright laws work from back then, they could have just used it without permission, they felt they should get it). As a result, it's even listed in the credits: "Mario Savio speech excerpted courtesy of: Lynne Hollander Savio". Actor Aaron Douglas (Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]) actually studied film of Savio, so all of the hand gestures Tyrol makes when he gives the speech are gestures that Savio actually used.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Dr. Cottle decides Cally is ready to return to duty:''
:'''Cottle:''' You're done here. I'm kickin' you out of here and sending you back to work.
:'''Cally:''' (muffled, because her jaw is immobilized) Work??? Like this?
:'''Cottle:''' You gotta love a woman who can complain even with her jaw wired shut.

"Would you mind telling me what's going on? I'm not a frakking Cylon, I'm not…(''sees the other Cavil in the cell'')…oh. Well, okay then."
:—''Brother [[Cavil]]''

*''Trying to bring order to a Union meeting:''
:'''Tyrol:''' Everyone, please be quiet. (''crowd ignores him'')
:'''Cally:''' Hey! Shut the frak up! (''crowd quiets down'')

*'''Admiral Adama:''' We're leaving. But we'll be back.

*''The Cylons occupy New Caprica:''
:'''Tyrol:''' "What do you want to do now, Captain?"
:'''Starbuck:''' "The same thing we always do. Fight them until we can't."

== Official Statements ==

From the official site (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/):
When Baltar wins the vote, Roslin considers stealing the election because she believes he is a Cylon collaborator.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Aaron Doral]]
*Rekha Sharma as [[Tory Foster]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0443286/ David Kaye] as [[James McManus]]
*Alisen Down as Jean Barclay
*Winston Rekert as Priest

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

Talk:Downloaded/Archive 1

2006-03-12T14:40:47Z

Redwall: /* Count */

If this episode has been dropped so Resurrection can be split into two, then aren't we still missing an episode? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 00:06, 21 November 2005 (EST)

:Yes. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:14, 21 November 2005 (EST)

:: I've heard new rumors that this ISN'T the Cylon POV episode; that this episode covers the fate of Galactica-Sharon, but the "totally" Cylon POV episode was another one entirely. There may be hope yet. Besides, I think at the least Lawless has actually filmed scenes for it; I don't know if the one that was scrapped ever went past script phase.

:::RDM says in the downloaded that this '''is''' the cylon POV episode. Plus, theres no time left for one this season, the season finale starts next week. --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 17:52, 26 February 2006 (EST)

However, new developments: I got a link to a scan of the February edition of Scifi Magazine, in which they answer questions from the official messageboard: http://pics.livejournal.com/reedfem/pic/0008a1hf ---->I can't tell if Grace Park is being SARCASTIC or if she was serious. (BTW, like 5 of these questions are from me, notably the Blade Runner one, the Geena Davis one, and the "new evil Sharon?" one). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:51, 5 December 2005 (EST)
::For those interested, the full set of scans can be found here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/reedfem/158883.html?page=1 --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:34, 5 December 2005 (EST)

Hmm, I'm pretty sure I saw a copy of Simon in the cafe on Caprica. I'm removing the "possibly archival footage" thing. --[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 23:24, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:They're saying it was a body double on TWOP. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:27, 24 February 2006 (EST)

::It's possible it might have been a different actor. What does TWOP stand for? --[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 23:31, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:::http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:35, 24 February 2006 (EST)

This episode was very good. I have one problem with it: Not Enough Leoben Conoy. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:37, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Yeah, I was suprised we didn't see him on Caprica. I mean, they even had Simon (or at least who I believe is Simon).

:Someone claimed Leoben was on Caprica: where? I did not see him, though I will rewatch it. I will delete this info until it can be confirmed. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:58, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::You're totally right... he wasn't there. Not sure why, but he wasn't. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 01:05, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::The TWOPers found a body double wearing his miniseries costume [http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9672/cap0118pd.png here]. ([http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=3136156&view=findpost&p=4607381 link to post]) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:14, 25 February 2006 (EST)
*He was there. He walked by 6 several times, and was sitting in the cafe. You don't see his face because they couldn't get the actor. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 01:15, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Blade Runner reference
I about fell off the couch when the cylons were referred to as "skin jobs"--George w chomsky

:Trust me, they know that we know. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 02:16, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Is it really Apollo in the picture of the Galactica crew that Sharon holds in her appartment? Because it's so small I can't be sure. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 05:30, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Can we get Roslin's "if I wanted to airlock a baby..." comment in the dialogue section? (both for its hilarity and the likelihood of it coming up later) I'd do it myself but I don't have a tape for the exact wording. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 14:09, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:Added that quote. Maybe these two questions should be added as well, but I'd like to know how others think about it: - Why did Roslin eventually decide to have the baby adopted instead of killing it? Why Was Baltar not notified of the baby being kept alive? Roslin never shared her suspicions of Baltar being a Cylon sympathizer. Were Admiral Adama and Col. Tigh even notified of this? --[[User:Gen00b|Gen00b]] 16:26, 25 February 2006 (EST)
:Check the Analysis sections: Roslin has no real "evidence" against Baltar, so she's not going to bring her suspicions into the open yet. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 17:48, 25 February 2006 (EST)
::That's my point, really. Roslin didn't even inform her vice-president. Even if she's doing it because of the presidential elections it wouldn't make sense, because Baltar seems opposed to abortion (and so he could use the accusation of Roslin being a baby killer against her).... --[[User:Gen00b|Gen00b]] 06:01, 26 February 2006 (EST)
:::Actually, I think Roslin didn't tell Baltar far more because she suspects he's involved with the Cylons, than because she's worried about the election. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:59, 2 March 2006 (CST)

After viewing the episode I have one serious question, where did they get a "fake" baby to fool Sharon 2 and Helo? A parent would notice if the body wasn't their own child. While a friend of mine suggested body used was resultant of the offscreen abortion from "The Captains Hand", this wouldn't work, as that fetus was only 4 months along, and would have been far less developed, and only 1/3rd the size (approx.) of baby Hera. Is their a master Wax Sculpter somewhere in the fleet?--[[User:Strato|Strato]]

:I don't think there's a canonical answer yet (and there may never be one). Some people have speculated that they use the baby of Hera's new adoptive mother (who mentioned that she had recently lost a child). At any rate, I think at this point they're all guesses (though the [[fumarella leaf]] origami theory hasn't gained much headway recently). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:22, 2 March 2006 (CST)

==Lucy Lawless character's name==
Last episode, she was "D'Anna Biers"; this episode we find out that her Cylon name is "Number Three". In dialog, she actually constantly refers to herself as "Three" "Number Three", etc. (well, they don't actually say "Number" aloud, but still). The scifi.com episode guide credits her for "Downloaded" as "D'Anna" but I think that's just miscommunication/they're easing into calling her "Number Three". Either way, I think we here on the wiki consider her "Number Three" now more because A) it is cooler, B) individual Cylons can have fake human names, but this refers to the individual, not the model. I.e. "Galactica-Three" = D'anna, but other Threes do not. Thoughts?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:42, 2 March 2006 (CST)
: I see you noticed my change. :) My thought on this was that we should refer to the specific character (i.e. the model with Galactica's fleet) as D'anna. ALl others should be Three or Number Three (the single number would bemore preferable). I liked how in the beginning of the episode synopsis she is referred to by her "D'anna" guise, but as soon as we find out her model number, she's referred to by that exclusively. It lets our reader know that THIS was the moment of change. [[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 14:53, 2 March 2006 (CST)
::Yes, that's what I intended when I wrote it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:55, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:::An excellent plan... [[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 15:00, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Cars inside the parking lot ==

About the cars parked on the building, one of them is a DS, of course, but I think that the one that is seen on the left when you see the parking the first time is a Citroen SM. You can compere the car on the movie (21:15 inside the chapter, without commercials) with this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_P6 and this other http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citroen_SM. As you can see, P6 wing is narrower on the side that is close to the front door. Front doors of both cars are very similar, of course. There is another car at the right of the DS, parked in a shadow zone, that could be the P6, but I'm not sure. you can have a better look at it at 24:48. About the 3 headlamp thingie (4 cars parked there?) I don't remember to have seen it on the citroen prototype pictures I have seen (you can see a lot of them at http://62.95.94.132/gallery/Citroen-Conservatoire). Front side of the car looks like VW Beetle. Of course there was a Citroen 2CV prototype with central headlamp, but it has only one headlamp, not three. --[[User:citroengs|Joaquin Gallardo]] 0:43, 3 March 2006 (CET)

The 3 headlamp vehicle seems most likely to ba a Tatra 87 as displayed here:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_(car)

== Sharon is handcuffed to the resurrection tub ==

Did you notice that sharon is actually handcuffed to the resurrection tub, while number six is not?--Thomask77
:Yes, most likely because Sharon was a sleeper agent and they thought she'd take the shock of downloading and being a Cylon a little bad....which, what with all the screaming, is exactly what happened. She could have done more danage if not restrained. Makes sense entirely, not a goof.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:58, 3 March 2006 (CST)

==Cylons and Age==
Philwelch writes:
:Based on the assumption that model number corresponds with age, Leoben Conoy — whose age is close to that of D'anna Biers — is probably Number Two or Number Four, while Simon is likely either Number Four or Number Seven.

I removed this because I don't consider this a productive or interesting line of questioning - we just don't have enough data to make that age assumption. If it turns at that Brother Cyvill is #2 or something, then your argument would be bolstered enough to revisit (in my opinion), but at present, we really have no reason to believe it. Cylon copies are clearly created fully grown anyway - if they wanted to make a copy of #11 as an old man, it stands to reason that they could do it just as easily as making #6 a fully grown woman. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:31, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:The idea of Cylon model number corresponding with apparent age isn't anything I made up, it's plainly in the Analysis section already. If we already have that idea in the Analysis, I see no reason *not* to use it for further speculation. You're being inconsistent. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 16:50, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:As for "not enough data", as the Analysis says, Number Three is apparently older than Number Five, who appears older than Number Six, who appears older than Number Eight. That's four confirming data points. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 16:55, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::They are all fairly young, in their 20s and 30s. This does not indicate a strong correlation to me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:52, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::And what if TPTB completely go against this speculative convention and cast a teenager as Number Two, or cast someone Dr. Cottle's age (or, worse, Dr. Cottle!) as Number Ten? Where will your theory stand? I don't see the Article Page as being the locale for speculation and conjecture... that's what this Talk page is for. Let the series unravel as the writers write it, and let's take it in enjoyably, rather than galavanting off on theories that are tentatively founded at best, and the writers are under no obligation to uphold. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:48, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::If we're not allowed to speculate, than let's go back and delete most of the Analysis and Questions sections. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:59, 5 March 2006 (CST)

: I think people are forgetting that we are talking about ''Cylons'' here, not humans. Age has nothing to do with it; being as that may, I honestly doubt the Cylons have a gerontocracy here. It is far more likely that the whole number scheme is what model was first off the production line, which makes logical sense from the Cylon POV. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 18:27, 5 March 2006 (CST)

::There's still *apparent* age--Boomer appears to be a 22-24 year old woman while Leoben Conoy appears to be in his late 30's. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 20:38, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::That doesn't make any difference at all. In fact, the actor who portrays Leoben Conoy (Number ?a) is the oldest of the KCA (Known Cylon Agents) at 45/46. The actor portraying Simon (Number ?b) is 38/39... and just months older than Lucy Lawless at 37/38 (and Lucy Lawless has a bod & appearance that can put most 22-year-olds to shame). So, based on your theory, that ''forces'' the storyline to put Leoben Conoy at Number 2 (or 1) and Simon at ... wow. Will you look at that? Where ''do'' you put Simon in this, based on the idea that he's older than Number 3?
:::I'm not saying that you're/we're ''not allowed'' to speculate, I'm just of the emphatic opinion that it's counterproductive and unnecessary. This isn't "our" series, it's the writers' series, to do with as they warrant. I don't think half of the Analysis and Questions material on the episode pages should be there, but the moderators of this Wiki feel it should be there, so who am I to defy them? The basis of the Wiki is to make sure the information is '''''right''''', not who is right first, whether in speculation or fact. And, the only source of "right-ness" is the writers... and they don't feel it necessary to divulge this information yet. No amount of speculation, conjecture, or deduction on our parts is going to change that. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:11, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Cylon Models Present on Caprica ==

I removed the following entry/question from the Question section:
: Why does Caprica only have 4 cylon models on it? Would you not expect all 12 models to be cohabitating the planet?

Firstly, the question in and of itself is incorrect, because there are 5 models seen (in fact, RDM insinuates that all 6 models are visible by using computer-generated-effects projections and composites of the two actors who could not be in attendance for the episode's shooting). Secondly, RDM goes into great length to explain that it would incise into the storyline's drama and tension to reveal the other six models of Cylon on Caprica. He concedes that it doesn't make much sense to ''not'' see all twelve models, but that it is ultimately a writer's/producer's decision for the good of the story/show. Thirdly, and with that point in mind, it is not our place to explain or conject why the other six models are not present — it might be revealed later in following episodes, or it may never be — since any answer on our parts is either unfounded, speculative, or flat-out wrong. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:37, 6 March 2006 (CST)

I noticed in the background a white male, with a bald head. As we do not currently know of a Cylon that is bald this adds a little bit of possible speculation. Just something to think about. --[[User:FIDS|FIDS]] 23:03, 10 March 2006 (CST)

No, that was just bad lighting/glare.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:04, 10 March 2006 (CST)

You sure about that? Hmmm, I'll have to watch the episode again, and pay more closer attention. --[[User:FIDS|FIDS]] 00:02, 11 March 2006 (CST)

I just listened to the podcast for "Downloaded," Ron Moore confirms that it's a Simon (whichever number that is). --[[User:FIDS|FIDS]] 19:08, 11 March 2006 (CST)

== Count ==

I noticed the survior count has not increased at all in either this episode or Lay Down your Burdens Part I. What's up with the baby? She doesn't count?
:Cylon's don't get counted, as has been previously established, and everyone but Helo and Baltar clearly consider the baby a Cylon.--[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 16:25, 11 March 2006 (CST)
::That's probably true, but then technically the Survivor Count should have gone down by one after "[[Final Cut]]" after it was revealed that Biers was a Cylon agent and not a human survivor.
:::How do we know it ever included her in the first place? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:10, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:::The survivor count doesn't go down for civilians the Fleet doesn't know are Cylons, does it? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 08:40, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Callandra Tyrol/Archive 1

2006-03-12T14:35:39Z

Redwall: /* Cally Tyrol? */

I just thought of this: in going with the Classical-themed names, maybe her full/real name's Calliope. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 20:43, 28 Apr 2005 (EDT)

== New Look ==

The last page was mostly garbage, opinion and things unverified. The new page has information that came directly from the episodes, and is accurate.

:But this picture is horrible...much too dark. I'll see if I cna find a better one. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 17:39, 26 Jun 2005 (EDT)

:: I added a picture. Actually, I had uploaded it, but forgot to add it to the article the first time around. Let me know your thoughts and concerns about it. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 11:32, 27 Jun 2005 (EDT)

:::Looks good to me. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 17:39, 27 Jun 2005 (EDT)

::::I think it needs a better picture, one of the ones of her smiling on the flight deck. This is the one of her looking sad during Adama's speech. ---Ricimer, 25 Aug 2005

==First Name==

According to the novelization of the miniseries, her first name is "Jane". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:35, 29 December 2005 (EST)
:I noticed this myself, but I didn't put it up because I don't know if that is canonical. I mean according to the novelization she was also in a relationship with Prosna; I think a lot of this is just "made up" by the writer and not associated with RDM in any shape or form. I need to get around to making a full write-up of the novelization. Updates as I get them. 5x5. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:35, 29 December 2005 (EST)

== Possibly a nod to B7 ==

Since "Number Six" may be a nod to Prisoner, it may be that "Cally" is a nod to the eponymous telepath on "Blake's Seven," another tough-edged science fiction series. [[User:Below|Below]] 16:26, 2 February 2006 (EST)

:No. I was unaware that Cally was a character name on Blake's 7, but Ron D. Moore stated in the DVD commentary for "Bastille Day" that he picked the names of Cally, Socinus, and Prosna from an internet "Random ancient name generator". I actually had that in my transcript of the DVD commentary. Someone saw fit to remove it. I thought that was okay, but I guess I'll look at the history page and restore it now. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:37, 2 February 2006 (EST)

: I doubt that this is a nod to B7... Unless Avon and Vila show up with Servalan at their heels. :-) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:05, 2 February 2006 (EST)

== Time for a Cally romance ==

She's been in the background for too long. I enjoyed her early development, but it's slacked off to where she just seemed bitter. Cally was a perky upbeat person with a creative streak, and the attack (as did all characters) changed her. Not that I want Cally to become the Whore of the Battlestar, but it would be fun for, say, her and Gaeta to strike a rapport (if not romantic as Gaeta can be a bigger stickler of regs, even with the need to make babies). There's plenty of enlisted; perhaps even she and the chief, Laird...others from Pegasus. I don't want her to become a lost character as Billy K had become. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:41, 14 February 2006 (EST)

:Be careful what you wish for. All the people who were asking, "Where's Billy?" probably didn't like the answer they got in Sacrifice... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:46, 14 February 2006 (EST)

::Spencerian, as I dutifully selected representative of the [http://s15.invisionfree.com/Nicki_Clyne_Fan_Site/ cult-following that Nicki "Cally" Clyne has amassed] (me and some of the other regulars on the messageboard are obsessed with her: Solium and Nibblerfan made the fanart and run things, while I wrote up our "thesis" of why Cally is great (read it on the site); basically because I think she's the "Anti-Seven of Nine" and embodies many of the character traits postulated by [[Naturalistic science fiction]], and in short, just like after so much Voyager and Enterprise, there was a backlash with the fans and we all left for BSG, after so much Seven of Nine and T'Pol, there was a backlash in favor of Cally. So it turned into a craze, and they kind of realized how popular she was, gave her more to [[Resistance|do in season 2]], etc.) '''Anyway''', when you say "she's in the backround"...that's just these past few episodes. *****Watch the spoiler pics for "Lay Down Your Burdens", she's going to have ***BIG*** things happening, not to meantion, the Tyrol-Cally- Galactcia-Boomer triangle taking place. '''No''', she does not "just seem bitter", I don't know what you're talking about. She was cool in FotP and Pegasus.
::I'm sorry, but it doesn't seem that you've been obsessing over her for as long and in depth as much as we have; Gaeta is just a random name to say; rather, we've narrowed it down to two possible relationships: 1) Chief Tyrol 2) [[Seelix]]: Cally saved her life, so it would be really logical for her to be friends with Cally. Heck, like Cally, Racetrack, Helo, etc. Seelix was supposed to be a one-shot character (without even a name) but they liked her so they brought her back for FotP.

::Further, this is totally incomparable to Billy. I already thought of Billy as an underused character by the early episodes of season 2, and I didn't really like him, while CALLY was just great!

::'''Cally is not underused. Dualla is more underused than Cally. I like Cally more than Dualla, she's gotten more meaningful development, I think Apollo/Dualla is the most poorly executed storyline the show has ever produced, and frankly, everyone posting on the messageboards has generally been saying "wow....Dualla is not well developed and annoying....and I wish they were talking about Cally"'''

::Things may have focused on other characters for the middle of Season 2.5, but I assure you Spencerian, this post is unwarranted, from the spoilers I've seen for the season finale; "all is proceeding according to PLAN!...."--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:43, 14 February 2006 (EST)

:::Well, it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Out of respect, of course, I presume you're disagreeing with my ''comments'' and not the right to post. My post is quite warranted--I want to see more Cally. Anywho...Hopefully the "big" things at season's end don't involve her shooting anyone or getting shot. Dualla is getting a bit more screen time, but seems more like a damsel, which is a shame. I would like BSG to have an episode like ''Babylon 5's'' "[http://tgm.firstones.com/wiki/A_View_from_the_Gallery A View from the Gallery]," where we see some day-to-day events with our lesser but pet favorite characters, like Cally, Seelix, Tyrol, Gaeta, Kat, Hot Dog, and especially Racetrack (don't know what she does to me, but she does). And what's with the lazy talk formatting of your comments? Do I have to call the [[User:Day|Mop Boy]] to come clean up again...? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:53, 14 February 2006 (EST)

::::Several points:
::::1) By not means; of course I wasn't attacking your ''right'' to post this etc., I'm just debating the comments, etc.
::::2)....'''You refer to him as "The Boy", now?'''
::::3)That's a better way of putting my Dualla complaints: she has little characterization on her own; first she was defined mostly by her relationship with Billy, and now she's kind of just devolving into the "prize" of Apollo. I don't like where her character is degenerating. That said, I like the actress and she is more than capable of good stuff, I just think that Dualla's handling, case in point the Apollo/Dualla Dualla is meant as a reward for him thing, was one of the few wrong this with the show; it was kind of good in ''theory'' (when RDM talked about it in the Resistance and FotP podcasts, etc.), but the way it just ''sprung up'' now was just ''so'' poorly executed. I mean, just walking up to him in "Black Market" and going "hey, so we have a relationship, right?" (''shudder''); Sacrifice was better, but she was mostly damsel in distress, and further, her opennign dialog with Apollo "weren't that great" ("wow, that moment was...electric", etc. and "I can't quite figure ''You'' out Apollo"), again, my whole thing just being "wow, they never had a relationship before. This came about completely randomly, and they're acting as if it was some longstanding thing. The actors make a good job of it as best they can, but I really just want them to drop this relationship in season three"., etc.
::::4)Yes, I've alwas wanted another "View from the Gallery"/"Lower Decks" episode. Oh, Flight of the Phoenix was KIND OF like that, but I'd like more of it. Racetrack is also cool too. The reason I like Racetrack and also Duck is because they're such downers and pessimistic/pragmatic, i.e. like normal people. Sort of, you notice how on Star Trek often times even in really bad situations everyone tends to still be cheerful and optimistic? Well, logically, more of the pilots and civilians and regular people should be a little distraught at their situation. None too happy or perky, like Dr. Cottle, etc. Racetrack is indeed cool. I wish we'd finally have Helo in a Raptor again, paired with Racetrack etc.; not enough Raptor team stuff lately. But my pet project, "wishlist" episode, is like, TNG had "Data's Day" so why not "Cally's Day" or "Tyrol's Day", which focus entirely on like Tyrol (in which case Cally would be a main character), etc. etc. etc.
::::5) Giving Cally armor and Katanas etc. doesn't really work. The point of why Cally is cool (the Anti-Seven of Nine) is that she's not some cliche scifi female warrior, kick-ass Lara Croft type She has to use a rifle in early season 2, she's totally inexperienced, distraught and out of her element. Shooting Galactica-Boomer did really seem in character and GREAT though, as she cares about the Chief and would hate her for hurting him. I must say, it was one of those PERFECT tv moments where you go "I had NO IDEA that was going to happen....yet it was entirely logical, and I SHOULD HAVE seen it coming"....like when Cardassia joined the Dominion in Deep Space Nine, I was totally shocked, but realized that it was so logical, I should have seen it coming but didn't. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:14, 14 February 2006 (EST)

::::: Uh. Hello, suh. I'll just be gettin' to work, then. *mops Merv's face* Bit of a mess in here, it is. *mops Spence's face* --[[User:Day|Day]] 07:24, 15 February 2006 (EST)

== Cally Tyrol? ==

Since Cally's now Tryol's wife, should we concider giving her his last name in the article, or just wait and see until its confirmed on screen or in dialouge? -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 01:41, 12 March 2006 (CST)
:In the novelization, Cally is her surname. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:58, 12 March 2006 (CST)
::Oh, now ''that'''s interesting. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 04:22, 12 March 2006 (CST)
:We also don't know for sure that Tyrol and Cally are married (or even that Tyrol is the father of her child). --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 08:35, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Downloaded/Archive 1

2006-03-11T22:25:59Z

Redwall: /* Count */

If this episode has been dropped so Resurrection can be split into two, then aren't we still missing an episode? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 00:06, 21 November 2005 (EST)

:Yes. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:14, 21 November 2005 (EST)

:: I've heard new rumors that this ISN'T the Cylon POV episode; that this episode covers the fate of Galactica-Sharon, but the "totally" Cylon POV episode was another one entirely. There may be hope yet. Besides, I think at the least Lawless has actually filmed scenes for it; I don't know if the one that was scrapped ever went past script phase.

:::RDM says in the downloaded that this '''is''' the cylon POV episode. Plus, theres no time left for one this season, the season finale starts next week. --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 17:52, 26 February 2006 (EST)

However, new developments: I got a link to a scan of the February edition of Scifi Magazine, in which they answer questions from the official messageboard: http://pics.livejournal.com/reedfem/pic/0008a1hf ---->I can't tell if Grace Park is being SARCASTIC or if she was serious. (BTW, like 5 of these questions are from me, notably the Blade Runner one, the Geena Davis one, and the "new evil Sharon?" one). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:51, 5 December 2005 (EST)
::For those interested, the full set of scans can be found here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/reedfem/158883.html?page=1 --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:34, 5 December 2005 (EST)

Hmm, I'm pretty sure I saw a copy of Simon in the cafe on Caprica. I'm removing the "possibly archival footage" thing. --[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 23:24, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:They're saying it was a body double on TWOP. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:27, 24 February 2006 (EST)

::It's possible it might have been a different actor. What does TWOP stand for? --[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 23:31, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:::http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:35, 24 February 2006 (EST)

This episode was very good. I have one problem with it: Not Enough Leoben Conoy. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:37, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Yeah, I was suprised we didn't see him on Caprica. I mean, they even had Simon (or at least who I believe is Simon).

:Someone claimed Leoben was on Caprica: where? I did not see him, though I will rewatch it. I will delete this info until it can be confirmed. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:58, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::You're totally right... he wasn't there. Not sure why, but he wasn't. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 01:05, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::The TWOPers found a body double wearing his miniseries costume [http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9672/cap0118pd.png here]. ([http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=3136156&view=findpost&p=4607381 link to post]) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:14, 25 February 2006 (EST)
*He was there. He walked by 6 several times, and was sitting in the cafe. You don't see his face because they couldn't get the actor. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 01:15, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Blade Runner reference
I about fell off the couch when the cylons were referred to as "skin jobs"--George w chomsky

:Trust me, they know that we know. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 02:16, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Is it really Apollo in the picture of the Galactica crew that Sharon holds in her appartment? Because it's so small I can't be sure. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 05:30, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Can we get Roslin's "if I wanted to airlock a baby..." comment in the dialogue section? (both for its hilarity and the likelihood of it coming up later) I'd do it myself but I don't have a tape for the exact wording. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 14:09, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:Added that quote. Maybe these two questions should be added as well, but I'd like to know how others think about it: - Why did Roslin eventually decide to have the baby adopted instead of killing it? Why Was Baltar not notified of the baby being kept alive? Roslin never shared her suspicions of Baltar being a Cylon sympathizer. Were Admiral Adama and Col. Tigh even notified of this? --[[User:Gen00b|Gen00b]] 16:26, 25 February 2006 (EST)
:Check the Analysis sections: Roslin has no real "evidence" against Baltar, so she's not going to bring her suspicions into the open yet. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 17:48, 25 February 2006 (EST)
::That's my point, really. Roslin didn't even inform her vice-president. Even if she's doing it because of the presidential elections it wouldn't make sense, because Baltar seems opposed to abortion (and so he could use the accusation of Roslin being a baby killer against her).... --[[User:Gen00b|Gen00b]] 06:01, 26 February 2006 (EST)
:::Actually, I think Roslin didn't tell Baltar far more because she suspects he's involved with the Cylons, than because she's worried about the election. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:59, 2 March 2006 (CST)

After viewing the episode I have one serious question, where did they get a "fake" baby to fool Sharon 2 and Helo? A parent would notice if the body wasn't their own child. While a friend of mine suggested body used was resultant of the offscreen abortion from "The Captains Hand", this wouldn't work, as that fetus was only 4 months along, and would have been far less developed, and only 1/3rd the size (approx.) of baby Hera. Is their a master Wax Sculpter somewhere in the fleet?--[[User:Strato|Strato]]

:I don't think there's a canonical answer yet (and there may never be one). Some people have speculated that they use the baby of Hera's new adoptive mother (who mentioned that she had recently lost a child). At any rate, I think at this point they're all guesses (though the [[fumarella leaf]] origami theory hasn't gained much headway recently). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:22, 2 March 2006 (CST)

==Lucy Lawless character's name==
Last episode, she was "D'Anna Biers"; this episode we find out that her Cylon name is "Number Three". In dialog, she actually constantly refers to herself as "Three" "Number Three", etc. (well, they don't actually say "Number" aloud, but still). The scifi.com episode guide credits her for "Downloaded" as "D'Anna" but I think that's just miscommunication/they're easing into calling her "Number Three". Either way, I think we here on the wiki consider her "Number Three" now more because A) it is cooler, B) individual Cylons can have fake human names, but this refers to the individual, not the model. I.e. "Galactica-Three" = D'anna, but other Threes do not. Thoughts?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:42, 2 March 2006 (CST)
: I see you noticed my change. :) My thought on this was that we should refer to the specific character (i.e. the model with Galactica's fleet) as D'anna. ALl others should be Three or Number Three (the single number would bemore preferable). I liked how in the beginning of the episode synopsis she is referred to by her "D'anna" guise, but as soon as we find out her model number, she's referred to by that exclusively. It lets our reader know that THIS was the moment of change. [[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 14:53, 2 March 2006 (CST)
::Yes, that's what I intended when I wrote it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:55, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:::An excellent plan... [[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 15:00, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Cars inside the parking lot ==

About the cars parked on the building, one of them is a DS, of course, but I think that the one that is seen on the left when you see the parking the first time is a Citroen SM. You can compere the car on the movie (21:15 inside the chapter, without commercials) with this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_P6 and this other http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citroen_SM. As you can see, P6 wing is narrower on the side that is close to the front door. Front doors of both cars are very similar, of course. There is another car at the right of the DS, parked in a shadow zone, that could be the P6, but I'm not sure. you can have a better look at it at 24:48. About the 3 headlamp thingie (4 cars parked there?) I don't remember to have seen it on the citroen prototype pictures I have seen (you can see a lot of them at http://62.95.94.132/gallery/Citroen-Conservatoire). Front side of the car looks like VW Beetle. Of course there was a Citroen 2CV prototype with central headlamp, but it has only one headlamp, not three. --[[User:citroengs|Joaquin Gallardo]] 0:43, 3 March 2006 (CET)

The 3 headlamp vehicle seems most likely to ba a Tatra 87 as displayed here:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_(car)

== Sharon is handcuffed to the resurrection tub ==

Did you notice that sharon is actually handcuffed to the resurrection tub, while number six is not?--Thomask77
:Yes, most likely because Sharon was a sleeper agent and they thought she'd take the shock of downloading and being a Cylon a little bad....which, what with all the screaming, is exactly what happened. She could have done more danage if not restrained. Makes sense entirely, not a goof.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:58, 3 March 2006 (CST)

==Cylons and Age==
Philwelch writes:
:Based on the assumption that model number corresponds with age, Leoben Conoy — whose age is close to that of D'anna Biers — is probably Number Two or Number Four, while Simon is likely either Number Four or Number Seven.

I removed this because I don't consider this a productive or interesting line of questioning - we just don't have enough data to make that age assumption. If it turns at that Brother Cyvill is #2 or something, then your argument would be bolstered enough to revisit (in my opinion), but at present, we really have no reason to believe it. Cylon copies are clearly created fully grown anyway - if they wanted to make a copy of #11 as an old man, it stands to reason that they could do it just as easily as making #6 a fully grown woman. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:31, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:The idea of Cylon model number corresponding with apparent age isn't anything I made up, it's plainly in the Analysis section already. If we already have that idea in the Analysis, I see no reason *not* to use it for further speculation. You're being inconsistent. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 16:50, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:As for "not enough data", as the Analysis says, Number Three is apparently older than Number Five, who appears older than Number Six, who appears older than Number Eight. That's four confirming data points. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 16:55, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::They are all fairly young, in their 20s and 30s. This does not indicate a strong correlation to me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:52, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::And what if TPTB completely go against this speculative convention and cast a teenager as Number Two, or cast someone Dr. Cottle's age (or, worse, Dr. Cottle!) as Number Ten? Where will your theory stand? I don't see the Article Page as being the locale for speculation and conjecture... that's what this Talk page is for. Let the series unravel as the writers write it, and let's take it in enjoyably, rather than galavanting off on theories that are tentatively founded at best, and the writers are under no obligation to uphold. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:48, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::If we're not allowed to speculate, than let's go back and delete most of the Analysis and Questions sections. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:59, 5 March 2006 (CST)

: I think people are forgetting that we are talking about ''Cylons'' here, not humans. Age has nothing to do with it; being as that may, I honestly doubt the Cylons have a gerontocracy here. It is far more likely that the whole number scheme is what model was first off the production line, which makes logical sense from the Cylon POV. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 18:27, 5 March 2006 (CST)

::There's still *apparent* age--Boomer appears to be a 22-24 year old woman while Leoben Conoy appears to be in his late 30's. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 20:38, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::That doesn't make any difference at all. In fact, the actor who portrays Leoben Conoy (Number ?a) is the oldest of the KCA (Known Cylon Agents) at 45/46. The actor portraying Simon (Number ?b) is 38/39... and just months older than Lucy Lawless at 37/38 (and Lucy Lawless has a bod & appearance that can put most 22-year-olds to shame). So, based on your theory, that ''forces'' the storyline to put Leoben Conoy at Number 2 (or 1) and Simon at ... wow. Will you look at that? Where ''do'' you put Simon in this, based on the idea that he's older than Number 3?
:::I'm not saying that you're/we're ''not allowed'' to speculate, I'm just of the emphatic opinion that it's counterproductive and unnecessary. This isn't "our" series, it's the writers' series, to do with as they warrant. I don't think half of the Analysis and Questions material on the episode pages should be there, but the moderators of this Wiki feel it should be there, so who am I to defy them? The basis of the Wiki is to make sure the information is '''''right''''', not who is right first, whether in speculation or fact. And, the only source of "right-ness" is the writers... and they don't feel it necessary to divulge this information yet. No amount of speculation, conjecture, or deduction on our parts is going to change that. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:11, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Cylon Models Present on Caprica ==

I removed the following entry/question from the Question section:
: Why does Caprica only have 4 cylon models on it? Would you not expect all 12 models to be cohabitating the planet?

Firstly, the question in and of itself is incorrect, because there are 5 models seen (in fact, RDM insinuates that all 6 models are visible by using computer-generated-effects projections and composites of the two actors who could not be in attendance for the episode's shooting). Secondly, RDM goes into great length to explain that it would incise into the storyline's drama and tension to reveal the other six models of Cylon on Caprica. He concedes that it doesn't make much sense to ''not'' see all twelve models, but that it is ultimately a writer's/producer's decision for the good of the story/show. Thirdly, and with that point in mind, it is not our place to explain or conject why the other six models are not present — it might be revealed later in following episodes, or it may never be — since any answer on our parts is either unfounded, speculative, or flat-out wrong. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:37, 6 March 2006 (CST)

I noticed in the background a white male, with a bald head. As we do not currently know of a Cylon that is bald this adds a little bit of possible speculation. Just something to think about. --[[User:FIDS|FIDS]] 23:03, 10 March 2006 (CST)

No, that was just bad lighting/glare.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:04, 10 March 2006 (CST)

You sure about that? Hmmm, I'll have to watch the episode again, and pay more closer attention. --[[User:FIDS|FIDS]] 00:02, 11 March 2006 (CST)

== Count ==

I noticed the survior count has not increased at all in either this episode or Lay Down your Burdens Part I. What's up with the baby? She doesn't count?
:Cylon's don't get counted, as has been previously established, and everyone but Helo and Baltar clearly consider the baby a Cylon.--[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 16:25, 11 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Downloaded/Archive 1

2006-03-11T22:25:47Z

Redwall: /* Count */

If this episode has been dropped so Resurrection can be split into two, then aren't we still missing an episode? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 00:06, 21 November 2005 (EST)

:Yes. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:14, 21 November 2005 (EST)

:: I've heard new rumors that this ISN'T the Cylon POV episode; that this episode covers the fate of Galactica-Sharon, but the "totally" Cylon POV episode was another one entirely. There may be hope yet. Besides, I think at the least Lawless has actually filmed scenes for it; I don't know if the one that was scrapped ever went past script phase.

:::RDM says in the downloaded that this '''is''' the cylon POV episode. Plus, theres no time left for one this season, the season finale starts next week. --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 17:52, 26 February 2006 (EST)

However, new developments: I got a link to a scan of the February edition of Scifi Magazine, in which they answer questions from the official messageboard: http://pics.livejournal.com/reedfem/pic/0008a1hf ---->I can't tell if Grace Park is being SARCASTIC or if she was serious. (BTW, like 5 of these questions are from me, notably the Blade Runner one, the Geena Davis one, and the "new evil Sharon?" one). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:51, 5 December 2005 (EST)
::For those interested, the full set of scans can be found here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/reedfem/158883.html?page=1 --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:34, 5 December 2005 (EST)

Hmm, I'm pretty sure I saw a copy of Simon in the cafe on Caprica. I'm removing the "possibly archival footage" thing. --[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 23:24, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:They're saying it was a body double on TWOP. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:27, 24 February 2006 (EST)

::It's possible it might have been a different actor. What does TWOP stand for? --[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 23:31, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:::http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:35, 24 February 2006 (EST)

This episode was very good. I have one problem with it: Not Enough Leoben Conoy. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:37, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Yeah, I was suprised we didn't see him on Caprica. I mean, they even had Simon (or at least who I believe is Simon).

:Someone claimed Leoben was on Caprica: where? I did not see him, though I will rewatch it. I will delete this info until it can be confirmed. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:58, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::You're totally right... he wasn't there. Not sure why, but he wasn't. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 01:05, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::The TWOPers found a body double wearing his miniseries costume [http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9672/cap0118pd.png here]. ([http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/index.php?showtopic=3136156&view=findpost&p=4607381 link to post]) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:14, 25 February 2006 (EST)
*He was there. He walked by 6 several times, and was sitting in the cafe. You don't see his face because they couldn't get the actor. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 01:15, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Blade Runner reference
I about fell off the couch when the cylons were referred to as "skin jobs"--George w chomsky

:Trust me, they know that we know. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 02:16, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Is it really Apollo in the picture of the Galactica crew that Sharon holds in her appartment? Because it's so small I can't be sure. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 05:30, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Can we get Roslin's "if I wanted to airlock a baby..." comment in the dialogue section? (both for its hilarity and the likelihood of it coming up later) I'd do it myself but I don't have a tape for the exact wording. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 14:09, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:Added that quote. Maybe these two questions should be added as well, but I'd like to know how others think about it: - Why did Roslin eventually decide to have the baby adopted instead of killing it? Why Was Baltar not notified of the baby being kept alive? Roslin never shared her suspicions of Baltar being a Cylon sympathizer. Were Admiral Adama and Col. Tigh even notified of this? --[[User:Gen00b|Gen00b]] 16:26, 25 February 2006 (EST)
:Check the Analysis sections: Roslin has no real "evidence" against Baltar, so she's not going to bring her suspicions into the open yet. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 17:48, 25 February 2006 (EST)
::That's my point, really. Roslin didn't even inform her vice-president. Even if she's doing it because of the presidential elections it wouldn't make sense, because Baltar seems opposed to abortion (and so he could use the accusation of Roslin being a baby killer against her).... --[[User:Gen00b|Gen00b]] 06:01, 26 February 2006 (EST)
:::Actually, I think Roslin didn't tell Baltar far more because she suspects he's involved with the Cylons, than because she's worried about the election. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:59, 2 March 2006 (CST)

After viewing the episode I have one serious question, where did they get a "fake" baby to fool Sharon 2 and Helo? A parent would notice if the body wasn't their own child. While a friend of mine suggested body used was resultant of the offscreen abortion from "The Captains Hand", this wouldn't work, as that fetus was only 4 months along, and would have been far less developed, and only 1/3rd the size (approx.) of baby Hera. Is their a master Wax Sculpter somewhere in the fleet?--[[User:Strato|Strato]]

:I don't think there's a canonical answer yet (and there may never be one). Some people have speculated that they use the baby of Hera's new adoptive mother (who mentioned that she had recently lost a child). At any rate, I think at this point they're all guesses (though the [[fumarella leaf]] origami theory hasn't gained much headway recently). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:22, 2 March 2006 (CST)

==Lucy Lawless character's name==
Last episode, she was "D'Anna Biers"; this episode we find out that her Cylon name is "Number Three". In dialog, she actually constantly refers to herself as "Three" "Number Three", etc. (well, they don't actually say "Number" aloud, but still). The scifi.com episode guide credits her for "Downloaded" as "D'Anna" but I think that's just miscommunication/they're easing into calling her "Number Three". Either way, I think we here on the wiki consider her "Number Three" now more because A) it is cooler, B) individual Cylons can have fake human names, but this refers to the individual, not the model. I.e. "Galactica-Three" = D'anna, but other Threes do not. Thoughts?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:42, 2 March 2006 (CST)
: I see you noticed my change. :) My thought on this was that we should refer to the specific character (i.e. the model with Galactica's fleet) as D'anna. ALl others should be Three or Number Three (the single number would bemore preferable). I liked how in the beginning of the episode synopsis she is referred to by her "D'anna" guise, but as soon as we find out her model number, she's referred to by that exclusively. It lets our reader know that THIS was the moment of change. [[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 14:53, 2 March 2006 (CST)
::Yes, that's what I intended when I wrote it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:55, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:::An excellent plan... [[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 15:00, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Cars inside the parking lot ==

About the cars parked on the building, one of them is a DS, of course, but I think that the one that is seen on the left when you see the parking the first time is a Citroen SM. You can compere the car on the movie (21:15 inside the chapter, without commercials) with this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_P6 and this other http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citroen_SM. As you can see, P6 wing is narrower on the side that is close to the front door. Front doors of both cars are very similar, of course. There is another car at the right of the DS, parked in a shadow zone, that could be the P6, but I'm not sure. you can have a better look at it at 24:48. About the 3 headlamp thingie (4 cars parked there?) I don't remember to have seen it on the citroen prototype pictures I have seen (you can see a lot of them at http://62.95.94.132/gallery/Citroen-Conservatoire). Front side of the car looks like VW Beetle. Of course there was a Citroen 2CV prototype with central headlamp, but it has only one headlamp, not three. --[[User:citroengs|Joaquin Gallardo]] 0:43, 3 March 2006 (CET)

The 3 headlamp vehicle seems most likely to ba a Tatra 87 as displayed here:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_(car)

== Sharon is handcuffed to the resurrection tub ==

Did you notice that sharon is actually handcuffed to the resurrection tub, while number six is not?--Thomask77
:Yes, most likely because Sharon was a sleeper agent and they thought she'd take the shock of downloading and being a Cylon a little bad....which, what with all the screaming, is exactly what happened. She could have done more danage if not restrained. Makes sense entirely, not a goof.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:58, 3 March 2006 (CST)

==Cylons and Age==
Philwelch writes:
:Based on the assumption that model number corresponds with age, Leoben Conoy — whose age is close to that of D'anna Biers — is probably Number Two or Number Four, while Simon is likely either Number Four or Number Seven.

I removed this because I don't consider this a productive or interesting line of questioning - we just don't have enough data to make that age assumption. If it turns at that Brother Cyvill is #2 or something, then your argument would be bolstered enough to revisit (in my opinion), but at present, we really have no reason to believe it. Cylon copies are clearly created fully grown anyway - if they wanted to make a copy of #11 as an old man, it stands to reason that they could do it just as easily as making #6 a fully grown woman. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:31, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:The idea of Cylon model number corresponding with apparent age isn't anything I made up, it's plainly in the Analysis section already. If we already have that idea in the Analysis, I see no reason *not* to use it for further speculation. You're being inconsistent. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 16:50, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:As for "not enough data", as the Analysis says, Number Three is apparently older than Number Five, who appears older than Number Six, who appears older than Number Eight. That's four confirming data points. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 16:55, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::They are all fairly young, in their 20s and 30s. This does not indicate a strong correlation to me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:52, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::And what if TPTB completely go against this speculative convention and cast a teenager as Number Two, or cast someone Dr. Cottle's age (or, worse, Dr. Cottle!) as Number Ten? Where will your theory stand? I don't see the Article Page as being the locale for speculation and conjecture... that's what this Talk page is for. Let the series unravel as the writers write it, and let's take it in enjoyably, rather than galavanting off on theories that are tentatively founded at best, and the writers are under no obligation to uphold. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:48, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::If we're not allowed to speculate, than let's go back and delete most of the Analysis and Questions sections. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 14:59, 5 March 2006 (CST)

: I think people are forgetting that we are talking about ''Cylons'' here, not humans. Age has nothing to do with it; being as that may, I honestly doubt the Cylons have a gerontocracy here. It is far more likely that the whole number scheme is what model was first off the production line, which makes logical sense from the Cylon POV. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 18:27, 5 March 2006 (CST)

::There's still *apparent* age--Boomer appears to be a 22-24 year old woman while Leoben Conoy appears to be in his late 30's. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 20:38, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:::That doesn't make any difference at all. In fact, the actor who portrays Leoben Conoy (Number ?a) is the oldest of the KCA (Known Cylon Agents) at 45/46. The actor portraying Simon (Number ?b) is 38/39... and just months older than Lucy Lawless at 37/38 (and Lucy Lawless has a bod & appearance that can put most 22-year-olds to shame). So, based on your theory, that ''forces'' the storyline to put Leoben Conoy at Number 2 (or 1) and Simon at ... wow. Will you look at that? Where ''do'' you put Simon in this, based on the idea that he's older than Number 3?
:::I'm not saying that you're/we're ''not allowed'' to speculate, I'm just of the emphatic opinion that it's counterproductive and unnecessary. This isn't "our" series, it's the writers' series, to do with as they warrant. I don't think half of the Analysis and Questions material on the episode pages should be there, but the moderators of this Wiki feel it should be there, so who am I to defy them? The basis of the Wiki is to make sure the information is '''''right''''', not who is right first, whether in speculation or fact. And, the only source of "right-ness" is the writers... and they don't feel it necessary to divulge this information yet. No amount of speculation, conjecture, or deduction on our parts is going to change that. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:11, 6 March 2006 (CST)

== Cylon Models Present on Caprica ==

I removed the following entry/question from the Question section:
: Why does Caprica only have 4 cylon models on it? Would you not expect all 12 models to be cohabitating the planet?

Firstly, the question in and of itself is incorrect, because there are 5 models seen (in fact, RDM insinuates that all 6 models are visible by using computer-generated-effects projections and composites of the two actors who could not be in attendance for the episode's shooting). Secondly, RDM goes into great length to explain that it would incise into the storyline's drama and tension to reveal the other six models of Cylon on Caprica. He concedes that it doesn't make much sense to ''not'' see all twelve models, but that it is ultimately a writer's/producer's decision for the good of the story/show. Thirdly, and with that point in mind, it is not our place to explain or conject why the other six models are not present — it might be revealed later in following episodes, or it may never be — since any answer on our parts is either unfounded, speculative, or flat-out wrong. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:37, 6 March 2006 (CST)

I noticed in the background a white male, with a bald head. As we do not currently know of a Cylon that is bald this adds a little bit of possible speculation. Just something to think about. --[[User:FIDS|FIDS]] 23:03, 10 March 2006 (CST)

No, that was just bad lighting/glare.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:04, 10 March 2006 (CST)

You sure about that? Hmmm, I'll have to watch the episode again, and pay more closer attention. --[[User:FIDS|FIDS]] 00:02, 11 March 2006 (CST)

== Count ==

I noticed the survior count has not increased at all in either this episode or Lay Down your Burdens Part I. What's up with the baby? She doesn't count?
:Cylon's don't get counted, as has been previously established, and everyone but Helo and Baltar clearly consider the baby a Cylon.

Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II/Archive2

2006-03-11T17:02:01Z

Redwall: /* Playa */

Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II/Archive2

2006-03-11T17:01:37Z

Redwall:

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II

2006-03-11T16:33:07Z

Redwall: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Burdens2.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 20
| Guests= [[Richard Hatch]] ([[Tom Zarek]]) [[Kate Vernon]] ([[Ellen Tigh]]) [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] ([[Cavil|Brother Cavil]])
| Writer=[[IMDB:nm1093194|Anne Cofell Saunders]], [[IMDB:nm0894156|Mark Verheiden]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= March 10, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= 49,550
| Prev= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]
| Next= TBA
}}

== Overview ==

: ''Everything turns on its head as the survivors vote for a new president -- and vote for their fate.''

== Summary ==

===On Caprica===

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]], the marines, and the [[resistance (movement)|resistance]] continue to take fire from Cylon centurions and artillery. They make their way up a hill, and hold their position.
*The Cylons hold fire, and Sharon remarks that the Cylons will attempt to capture them with non-lethal weapons, such as gas.
*Eighteen hours later, they emerge to find that the Cylons have disappeared. [[Cavil]] -- who suddenly appears behind them -- announces that the Cylons have left the Twelve Colonies and that humanity was spared.

===In the Fleet===

*[[Cally]] is cleared back to work by [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]], despite having her jaw wired shut (which elicits a sexist observation from the doctor). [[Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] visits her, apologizing for the attack. Cally forgives him, saying that she's always cared for him.

*[[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]] continues to gain in the polls. On ''[[Colonial One]]'', Tory mentions there's always a victory plan. [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] later calls a private meeting with Dr. Baltar, asking to deliver a joint statement of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_%28verb%29 tabling] the issue of colonization until after the election, which Baltar rejects.

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] returns to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', with the resistance fighters, much to the delight of Admiral Adama. She mentions the fact that the Cylons have left Caprica, and a man appearing to be Brother Cavill confirms it. He also says he has a message, but is attacked by Chief Tyrol, claiming he's a Cylon. Both Cavill and Caprica-Sharon are escorted to the brig under marine guard.

*The other Cavill (from last episode) is also taken to the brig, claiming he's not a Cylon, but changes his tune upon seeing his "brother", as he calls him. Both Cavills then talk about the fact that the “war heroes” (Caprica Six & ''Galactica''-Sharon) have talked about how the attack of the colonies and the pursuit of the fleet were mistakes. They were told to relay the message that man and Cylon will go their separate ways. Both Roslin and Admiral Adama are less than trusting regarding the message.

*Election Day has arrived and Baltar has an apparent five thousand-vote lead over Roslin with only a few ships left. On ''Colonial One'', Tory makes a call to ''Galactica'', putting a plan into action.

*Amazingly, Roslin initially appears to have retained the presidency. While most are celebrating, Lt. Gaeta makes a starting discovery regarding the votes, and informs the Admiral that Col. Tigh may be involved in a conspiracy to throw the election.

*Admiral Adama confronts Roslin regarding the conspiracy, saying he has a confession to rig the vote. Roslin admits her involvement and Adama is disappointed.

*Baltar is informed of his nomination as President. He's less than pleased, vowing to have full investigation in time. President-elect Baltar then orders a course for “New Caprica”.

*[[Gaius Baltar]] is sworn in as the new President of the Twelve Colonies, and orders the immediate colonization of New Caprica.

*''[[Cloud 9]]'' is destroyed by a nuclear blast, Gina being present before the explosion; in addition to the ''Cloud 9'', at least two other ships are destroyed in the blast. Admiral Adama reports to the president that this may be a Cylon attack, but Baltar ignores him and presses forward with colonization.

===One Year Later===

*[[Felix Gaeta|Mr. Gaeta]] is reporting to the President regarding a Union issue aboard Colonial One, now down on the planet. Baltar is upset, saying there have been no Cylon attacks but the people still complain. He has regressed, turning to alcohol, medication, and womanizing.

*Admiral Adama, now donning a mustache, is walking around a near-empty Galactica, the ship falling into disarray. Over half of the crew has moved down to the planet, and they are running on such a skeleton crew that they barely have enough pilots to fly training missions, much less a good CAP. Adama has a discussion with Tigh about going down to the planet, which Tigh reluctantly agrees to.

*[[Samuel Anders|Anders]], now Kara’s husband, is sick with pneumonia. Dr. Cottle is saying he can’t do much for him, saying there are no antibiotics available, but he is young and healthy, and with a little luck he "should" pull through.

*Kara runs into the Tighs as [[Tyrol]], now a union boss, is making a speech to begin a strike, a pregnant Cally by his side. Saul mentions that Pegasus keeps the backup medical supplies and that Apollo would spring some for Starbuck. Starbuck disagrees, which prompts Tigh to state that Apollo would be "over that by now".

*Kara calls Lee aboard Pegasus to requesting medication. Lee's gained a lot of weight in the past year. Dualla is now an officer, serving by Lee Adama's side in Pegasus' CIC. Before Lee can reply, Dualla catches something on [[DRADIS]].

*A fleet of [[Cylon]] [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s arrive in orbit around New Caprica. The Adamas are having a discussion about what to do, when [[Helo]] asks if alert fighters should be launched. Admiral Adama keeps them in as the defense fleet jumps away.

*Mr. Gaeta informs the President of the Cylon approach. Later, before his assembled staff, copies of Number 5, 8, and 6 approach the President. The Cylons declare that as long as there’s no resistance, no harm will come. President Baltar declares surrender on behalf of the colonists, and as Cylon armies occupy the planet, Kara vows to resist.

== Questions ==

*What "number" is Cavil?
*Was Roslin's threat to put the two Cavils into space actually carried out?
**Most likely not, she had the election on her mind, much to do, and didn't actually make it an order. Baltar would have been unlikely to vent them into space.
*Where did the defense fleet jump to?
**Likely a prearranged rendezvous point, similar to that of the miniseries.
*Where is Caprica-Sharon?
**Most likely, still in ''Galactica'''s brig. This is probably why Helo is still aboard ship, having taken a CIC officer's position.
**In the podcast, Ron Moore vaguely hinted that they hadn't forgotten about Sharon, but that we'd have to "wait and see". Apparently, several of the early season 3 episodes will have flashbacks dealing with events that took place in the year that passed.
*What happened to Zarek?
*Why is Leoben looking for Starbuck, specifically?
** Could it be the same [[Leoben Conoy]] that Starbuck interrogated in "[[Flesh and Bone]]"?
*** As seen with ''Galactica''-Sharon, it is distinctly possible that that particular Leoben was lying when he said he'd actually die and not download.
*Did the Cavils lie about the pursuit of humanity being a mistake? Or were they telling the truth?
** If they were telling the truth, perhaps not all Cylons are readily able to admit and rectify their mistakes as the Cavils believed.
*Why has the population (until Tyrol's recent union speech) accepted Baltar's imperious rule? People were hardly so passive under Roslin. Indeed, Adama executed a military coup over a rather less important issue than giving a nuclear weapon to a Cylon agent.
**Admiral Adama wasn't conclusive as to how the weapon got on board Cloud Nine.
***Baltar pointed out there have been no attacks since he took office. Under Roslin the attacks were common. Perhaps for a year the people decided they preferred the safety Baltar gave them to their liberties.
*Are the Six and Eight that Baltar surrendered to [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]]?
**Judging from Six's reaction to Baltar, almost definitely.
*Where did the Cylon fleets go, after they left the Twelve Colonies? Cavil was deliberately vague when asked if they simply returned to the [[Cylon homeworld]].
*How many people died in the Cloud Nine explosion?
**The Cloud Nine explosion also destroyed ships near it. Given the stated size of the New Caprica population along with subtracting the minimal crew sizes needed to maintain the ships in orbit, you can estimate that approximately 3000 to 5000 people died.
*When Gina-Six was instantly vaporized due to being only two feet from a nuclear detonation, did she still transmit her consciousness? Was she even capable of transmitting considering that any internal hardware responsible for this task would have been instantly destroyed?
**They have already established that with the [[Resurrection Ship]] destroyed, Cylons in the fleet that are killed will ''actually'' die. Gina expressed suicidal impulses as early as "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]".
*Given Roslin's memories of Baltar with Six, why didn't Admiral Adama suspect Baltar of handing over the nuke to the cylons? If he did suspect him, why not act on it?
**He had no real proof.
*Did the events of "One Year Later" actually happen, or were they a dream or vision sequence given to Baltar?
**Although Baltar has had elaborate visions in the past, this vision left Baltar's point of view several times, addressing issues such as the marriage of Kara to Sam Anders and Adama's friendship with Tigh that are of little knowledge or importance to Baltar.
***Ron D. Moore has stated in interviews that the first 4-5 episodes of season 3 will deal with the Cylon occupation of New Caprica, and unless a vast swath of episodes is going to be a dream sequence, all of these "one year later" events ''really'' happen.
*Why was it so easy for Adama to hide the collusion of the rigged election from the press, and why were there no consequences?
**So far as we know, Adama, Tigh, Gaeta, Dualla, Dualla's two associates, Tory, and Roslin are the only people that knew; 6 are military personnel, 4 of whom would be implicated, and the other 2 were directly involved civilians. All are strongly motivated to conceal the information.
* Why would it take the Cylons over one year to find New Caprica, alerted by the nuclear detonation prior to the inhabitation of the planet?
**It was stated in the previous episode that the interference from the gas cloud surrounding it would hide the planet fairly well. The Cylons were slightly over a light year away, according to the Number Five. Searching something as large as the gas cloud likely is for a planet or fleet is, given the sensor range limitations, quite impressive to accomplish in months, even with general directional information from a light-year out.
***Actually with the Cylon base 1 light year away, it would take 1 year for the nuke to show up on the Cylon sensors. Short of some FTL communication system, that's the only way the Cylons would have been able to detect the planet. Since the fleet is all in within non-FTL distances, all the FTL devices, if any exist would likely have been destroyed or disabled.
*If the Cylons really left the Twelve Colonies, leaving behind a nuked-out wasteland, what happened to all of the human captives in the [[Farms]]?
*Why have the Cylons returned? According to [[Cavil]], the two races were to go their "separate ways". The Cylons may have been worried about the humans retaliating at some point in the future, but the location of the Cylon world(s) is still unknown to the humans, so ensuring the safety of their society presumably isn't the motive behind the occupation of [[New Caprica]].
*Will the Cylons resume their pursuit of the Fleet?
*How many people are left in the Fleet?

== Analysis ==
*Baltar's arrogance seems to have led to corrupt rule during his year on New Caprica—he replaces Roslin's modest desk with a larger, elaborate one, replaces the population count whiteboard with a portrait of himself, and keeps a harem aboard the landed Colonial One.
*After a whole year, everyone is still living in tents. There is a vital shortage of medicine, the military is of no use, and labor conditions are apparently intolerable. Baltar's administration is apparently as incompetent as Roslin feared.
**It is not clear whether these conditions are the result of admimistrative incompetence or the inherent difficulties of colonizing a marginally habitable planet.
*It's ironic that the obligations of duty keep Lee Adama aboard Pegasus while everyone else goes planetside—he is a reserve officer, and promised to build his pilots a bar as soon as they found a habitable planet.
*Ron Moore has once again decided to play with viewer's expectations; in the podcast for "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" Moore commented on how everyone assumed that ''Pegasus'' would be destroyed by the end of the episode, and thus he thought it would be a good twist to keep ''Pegasus'' alive as another ship in the Fleet. Here, many viewers assumed that the nuke that Baltar gave to Gina in "[[Epiphanies]]" would be used to destroy ''Pegasus'' this time, but it wasn't.
*29 people died between this episode and the preceding one? One or two Raptors were lost, and some Marines died on Caprica, but that doesn't seem high enough.
**Is it possible they took out all of the people who left in the raptors because they were not apart of the fleet at the end of the previous episode?
***They didn't remove Starbuck from the count when she left for Caprica at the beginning of Season 2.
*It seems odd that no mention was made of the casualties on the return from Caprica, just jubilant celebration?
**Although they didn't actually talk about the losses, there was a shot of a wounded person being taken away on a stretcher.

== Notes ==
* '''According to Ron Moore's podcast, although Scifi Channel was willing to air this episode as a 90-minute special, it had to be heavily edited down for international distribution; outside of the United States, viewers will only see a 1 hour version of the episode, which Moore regards as "almost incomprehensible".''' Many plot threads, such as the entire Cally/Tyrol subplot, were completely removed from the one hour version.
* Ron Moore's podcast for episode 13, [[Epiphanies]], states that the Nuke given to Gina will come back in this episode, to the benefit of the Cylons.
*In RDM's podcast for the previous episode, he said that in early drafts of this special 90 minute long episode, the writers actually tried to make it a 2 hour special, but this was soon dropped (these times are including commercials).
*The election board appears to have a definitive list of the names of all of the ships in [[The Fleet (RDM)]]. Not all of them are clearly visible, but this would seem to indicate that the writers do have an actual list that they get new ship names from. Ship names visible on the chart are: Demetrius, Diomedes, Embla Brokk, Enkidu, Epheme, Galactica, Gideon, Gemenon Traveller, Greenleaf, Monarch, Odysseus, Pegasus, Persephone, Prometheus, Swordfish
*The framed photo of President Roslin and [[Billy Keikeya]] was still on her desk during the election.
*When Roslin "won" the rigged election results, Roslin received 24,265 votes, while Baltar recieved 22,266. This means that the elligible voters in the Fleet number 46,531. In the podcast, RDM explains that he quickly came up with these numbers, to try to reflect roughly how many survivors are below the voting age.
*Toward the end of the episode, President Baltar refers to a government body called the "People's Council". This may be the proportionally elected lower house mentioned in by RDM in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 blog post] on January 30, 2005.
*[[Hera]] is seen on New Caprica in the same white cradle that Baltar had a vision of her being in in "[[Scattered]]", etc. According to RDM's podcast it's actually the exact same cradle.
*Tyrol's union speech is an almost word for word quote of Mario Savio's address during the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in 1964. According to Ron Moore and David Eick in the podcast, they even got permission from Savio's widow to use it (even though, due to the way copyright laws work from back then, they could have just used it without permission, they felt they should get it). As a result, it's even listed in the credits: "Mario Savio speech excerpted couresy of: Lynne Hollander Savio". Actor Aaron Douglas (Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]) actually studied film of Savio, so all of the hand gestures Tyrol makes when he gives the speech are gestures that Savio actually used.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Dr. Cottle decides Cally is ready to return to duty:''
:'''Cottle:''' You're done here. I'm kickin' you out of here and sending you back to work.
:'''Cally:''' (muffled, because her jaw is immobilized) Work??? Like this?
:'''Cottle:''' You gotta love a woman who can complain even with her jaw wired shut.

*''The Cylons occupy New Caprica:''
:'''Tyrol:''' "What do we do now, Captain?"
:'''Starbuck:''' "Same thing we always do. Fight them until we can't."

*''Trying to bring order to a Union meeting:''
:'''Tyrol:''' Everyone, please be quiet.
:'''Cally:''' Hey! Shut the frak up! (''crowd quiets down'')

*'''Admiral Adama:''' We're leaving. But we'll be back.

== Official Statements ==

From the official site (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/):
When Baltar wins the vote, Roslin considers stealing the election because she believes he is a Cylon collaborator.

== Statistics ==

=== Guest Stars ===
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Aaron Doral]]
*Rekha Sharma as [[Tory Foster]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0443286/ David Kaye] as [[James McManus]]
*Alisen Down as Jean Barclay
*Winston Rekert as Priest

=== Writing & Direction ===


=== Production Notes ===

*Series 2 (2005 / 2006)
*Production Number: 2.20
*Airdate Order: 20 (of 20)

=== First Run Air Dates & Releases ===

*UK Airdate: Date
*US Airdate: Date
*DVD Release (UK): Date
*DVD Release (US): Date
*[[Wikipedia:Nielsen Rating|Nielsen Rating]]: X.X million households, XXX share

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

Cloud 9

2006-03-11T15:16:07Z

Redwall: revert; present tense should still be used

[[Image:Bsg-c9-2.jpg|thumb|Cloud Nine (credit: Sci-Fi Channel)]]

'''''Cloud 9''''' is a massive, [[FTL|jump-capable]] luxury liner within [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]. Extensively damaged during the [[Cylon Attack]], she had to be evacuated while repairs were made ([[Colonial Day]]). Following her repairs, she returned to full service within the Fleet, and provided a venue for the first sitting of the interim [[Quorum of Twelve]] convened by [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] ([[Colonial Day]]).

The ship is unique in that as well as traditional living and working space on board, ''Cloud 9'' incoporates a huge pressurised biome that provides a realistic simulation of a planetary surface, including gardens, buildings, trees - even an artificial sky.

After her flight from captivity in ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica's]]'' brig, President Roslin, along with [[Lee Adama|Captain Lee Adama]] and priestess [[Elosha]], flee in a [[Raptor]] to ''Cloud 9'' to hide from [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] and [[William Adama|Commander Adama]]. The group is taken in by [[Tom Zarek]], who meets with them onboard ''Cloud 9''. ''Cloud 9's'' high volume of intraship traffic makes it virtually impossible for ''Galactica'' to track their final hiding place ([[Resistance]]).

''Cloud 9'' also has a swimming area. Commander Adama's orders shore leave for Colonel Tigh, advising him to take a swim and relax from his unexpected command duties when Adama was injured. Colonel Tigh never leaves ''Galactica'' to enjoy it as his Raptor was [[Joe Palladino|sabotaged]] in an assassination attempt ([[Final Cut]]).

Many of ''Cloud 9's'' accommodations appear more like hotel rooms than bunks or seats. A passenger, [[Shevon]], lives in one such room, where Captain Adama visits her for intimate moments. Shevon is removed from her room by [[Phelan]]'s thugs, and Captain Adama later finds the killer of Commander [[Jack Fisk]] in the room, dead of a gunshot to the head ([[Black Market]]). The Cylon sympathizer/terrorist group "[[Demand Peace]]" also operates out of a suite located onboard ''Cloud 9'' ([[Epiphanies]]).

''Cloud 9'' and several smaller ships are destroyed by [[Gina]] just after the presidential election using a nuclear device that was given to her by [[Gaius Baltar]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

== Related Imagery ==

<gallery>
Image:Cloud 9 Ballroom.jpg|''Cloud 9'' - Ballroom  
Image:Cloud 9 - Gardens.jpg|''Cloud 9'' -- Garden  
Image:Cloud 9 - Horizon.jpg|The "horizon" of ''Cloud 9''  
</gallery>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game

2006-03-11T15:07:42Z

Redwall: /* ...Zarek makes a gambit for power... */

=Take a drink every time...=

== ...someone kills a baby. ==
*Six ([[Mini-Series]])
*Adama ([[Scattered]])

== ...Colonel Saul Tigh... ==
*...drinks.
*...resolves to quit drinking.
**''Take two sympathy drinks when, not if, Tigh falls off the wagon.''
*...is drunk on duty.
*...questions Adama's orders.
*...complains about not wanting his own command.
*...berates someone else for a flaw he has too.
*...gives a remarkably stupid order to the crew
*''Take bonus drinks if...''
**...a loss of life is involved ([[Resistance]])
**...a beloved character needlessly suffers for it ([[Resistance]])
**...Lee Adama is involved with the order ([[Fragged]])
**...the Fleet tells him, collectively, to frak off ([[Fragged]])
**...Commander Adama has to repair Tigh's frak-ups
**...Tigh undermines his own reputation as a result ([[Mini-Series]], "[[Fragged]]", "[[Resistance]]")
**...Tigh admits that he's making bad orders (or says he doesn't want to be making the orders, "I don't want a command!", etc.)
*...states the obvious for purposes of exposition.

== ...Ellen Tigh... ==
*...makes sexual advances on someone other than Col. Tigh.
*...brokers for power.
*...manipulates Col. Tigh.
**''This may lead Col. Tigh to give a remarkably stupid order to the crew, in which case refer to the rules for that occurrence as well.''

== ...Kara Thrace... ==
*...Demonstrates yet another talent.
**Card Shark: "And the girl wins again! Another round?" ([[Water]])
**Sniper: "With all due respect, sir, I am the best shot in or out of the cockpit." ([[Bastille Day]])
**Painter: "You paint these, Kara? / Yeah." ([[Valley of Darkness]])
**Pro-level Pyramid Player: "I was scouted for the pros. Bum knee took me out of contention." ([[Resistance]])
**Poetry Buff: "You wouldn't know Caprican Poetry if it was hot-sidded across your helmet." / "From the darkness you must fall - Failed and weak, to darkness all. [[Kataris]]; not one of his better works." ([[Final Cut]])
*...Steps out of the box.
**...mates two Vipers nose-to-nose for flight ([[Mini-Series]])
**...jury-rigs an enemy fighter with foreign controls to fly herself home ([[You Can't Go Home Again]])
**...outwits the Cylons in a tactical fighter plan of attack ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]), ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]])
**...kills or maims a Cylon with anything other than a gun ("[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", "[[The Farm]]")
*...Steps into the bottle. ([[Scar]])
*...Punches anyone.
*...Makes a Cylon kill.
*...Is mistaken for a Cylon and nearly killed because of it ([[You Can't Go Home Again]], [[Resistance]], [[Home, Part I]], [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]])
*...Hops into bed on a barely-considered whim.
**Gaius Baltar ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
**Samuel Anders ([[The Farm]])
**Lee Adama ([[Scar]])
*...Starts to unduly fawn over someone mere days after meeting them.
**Samuel Anders ([[Resistance]])
**Admiral Cain ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]] and [[Resurrection Ship, Part II|Part II]])

== ...Six dies. ==
*Nuked. ([[Mini-Series]], [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])
*Shot. ([[33]])
*Impaled. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])
*Extinguished. ([[The Farm]])

== ...Six appears to Baltar at an inopportune moment. ==
*''Take bonus drinks if''
*...Baltar tries to subtly talk to both Six and real people at the same time (e.g. [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]: "I'm not your plaything!")
**...and both Six and the "real" person or people Baltar is talking to respond the same way ("Plaything?")
*...Six tries to engage Baltar in either sex or foreplay
*...Baltar makes awkward attempts at excusing his odd behavior
*...Others comment on Baltar's sanity or lack thereof
*...She appears while he's in the bathroom
*...She appears after he's had sex with another woman
*...She's naked
*...She's dressed like Starbuck

== ...Six becomes violent or threatens violence. ==
*Breaks a baby's neck ([[Mini-Series]])
*Screams in Baltar's face ([[Bastille Day]])
*Beats the crap out of Caprica-Boomer
*Chokes Baltar ([[Litmus]])
*"I'll always have your heart…I can rip it out of your chest if I have to." ([[Colonial Day]])
*Smashes Baltar's face into a mirror. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
*Kicks the shit out of Starbuck. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])
*Tackles Baltar ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]] as [[Gina]])
*Breaks a guard's neck ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]] as Gina)
*Shoots Admiral Cain ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]] as Gina)
*Chokes Baltar with his tie ([[Epiphanies]])
*Shoves Baltar and bites his lip ([[Epiphanies]] as Gina)
*Bashes [[Number Three]]'s head in with a rock ([[Downloaded]] as [[Caprica-Six]])
*Suicide-bombs ''[[Cloud 9]]'' ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]] as Gina)

== ...Anyone smokes. (literally or figuratively) ==
*Gaius Baltar
*Dr. Cottle
*Kara Thrace
*Specialist [[Prosna]]
*Lee Adama

== ...Any male character sticks it in a [[toaster]]. ==
*Helo
*Gaius Baltar
*Galen Tyrol

== ...Helo acts like an idiot. ==
*...fails to notice his robot girlfriend's glowing spine. ([[Six Degrees of Separation]])
*...fails to realize his inexplicably nauseous robot girlfriend is pregnant. ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])
*...shoots his pregnant robot girlfriend. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
*...lets his pregnant robot girlfriend jack Starbuck's spaceship. ([[Scattered]])
*...is surprised that everyone wants to throw his pregnant robot girlfriend out an airlock. ([[Home, Part I]])
*...fails to anticipate territory issues with his pregnant robot girlfriend's copy's former boyfriend. ([[Home, Part II]])

== ...Chief Tyrol acts like a moron. ==
*...makes out with a lieutenant against regulations - who happens to be a sleeper copy of Helo's pregnant robot girlfriend.
*...lies about making out with his robot girlfriend.
*...lies when he says he never loved his robot girlfriend.
*...chews out of his crew who dare to show concern about his feelings about his robot girlfriend - or anything else, for that matter. ([[Mini-Series]], [[Flight of the Phoenix]])
*...glares at or curses Colonel Tigh.
**...''or anyone else for that matter'' ("If I scratched everyone who popped off at the chief the cooks could be flying the planes" - Lee Adama, "[[Final Cut]]")
*...goads the Yee-Haw Boys into entering his and Helo's cell and beating him up with soap-in-a-towel.
*...sleeps in the hanger bay in his undies then beats the crap out of Cally when woken.

''Finish your drink if someone else acknowledges the stupidity of Tyrol''. ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]", "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]")

==...Bill Adama...==
*...uses his Glare of Death.
**''Bonus drink if Cottle deflects it with his own Scowl of Intense Disapproval.'' ([[The Captain's Hand]])
*...stomps down ''Galactica'''s hallways.
*...waxes philisophically.
*...brings up his [[Joseph Adama|lawyer father]].
*...expresses sympathy for the Cylons.
*...expresses an enthusiastic attitude toward killing Cylons.
*''Take a bonus drink if it is by trying kill a Cylon himself''
**''Finish the drink completely if he tries to kill the same Cylon he expressed sympathy for in a previous episode.''
*...agrees with President Roslin.
*...argues with President Roslin.
*...deposes President Roslin.
*...kisses President Roslin.
*...appears on screen sporting a moustache.
*...does something "captainly", like crushing walnuts in his hand or building a model ship.
*...uses military action to resolve a situation. (See the above section if Adama's decision to use military action is recklessly dumb.)
*...makes a recklessly stupid command decision.
**Counterattacking the Cylons ([[Mini-Series]])
**Wasting half the fleet's fuel looking for Starbuck ([[You Can't Go Home Again]])
**Arresting President Roslin ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])
**Sending Marines to rescue Helo and the Chief from the ''Pegasus'' ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]])
**Arranging for the assassination of Admiral Cain ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]])
**''Bonus drinks if a woman tries to reason with Adama.''
:*Roslin tells Adama, "The war is over, we lost", and "We need to start having babies" ([[Mini-Series]])
:*Dualla tells Adama, "It's time to put the fleet back together" ([[Home, Part I]])
:*Roslin tells Adama, "[[Helena Cain|She]] is dangerous, and the only thing that you can do is hit her before she hits you," ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]])
:*Sharon tells Adama, "You said you never asked yourself why you deserve to survive." ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]])
::*''Finish your drink completely when, not if, Adama ultimately relents, echoing that woman's words to his officer(s).''

== ...People get away with things — major disciplinary problems are ignored or set aside. ==
*Starbuck gets away with punching Col. Tigh ([[Mini-Series]])
*Tyrol gets away with his hidden affair with Boomer, even when it leads to a security flaw that allows a Cylon suicide bomber to attack the ship ([[Litmus]])
*Starbuck gets away with stealing and ultimately losing ''Galactica'''s captured Cylon raider. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
*Boomer gets away with trying to kill herself and ends up on a vitally important mission ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])
*Baltar gets away with murdering [[Crashdown]] ([[Fragged]])
*Apollo gets away with pulling a gun on Tigh ([[Scattered]]) and helping Roslin escape ([[Home, Part II]])
*Helo gets away with pulling a gun on Apollo ([[Home, Part I]])
*President Roslin ultimately gets away with subverting the boundary between military and civilian government ([[Home, Part II]]).
*Commander Adama ultimately gets away with subverting the boundary between military and civilian government ([[Litmus]], [[Home, Part II]]).
*Kat gets away with getting high on drugs during flight (reinstated in [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]])
*Starbuck gets away with (and gets promoted for) stealing the Blackbird to fly a photo recon mission that her CAG specifically took her off of. ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]])
*Lee Adama gets away with law enforcement by summary execution ([[Black Market]])
*Lee gets away with making repeated visits to a prositute ([[Black Market]])
*Kat gets away with punching Starbuck in the mouth ([[Scar]])
*Lee gets away with an affair with Dee, a fellow active duty soldier ([[The Captain's Hand]])
*Tyrol gets away with beating the crap out of Cally with nothing more than a stern talking to from a [[Cavil|priest]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).

==...Zarek makes a gambit for power...==
*...but loses.
**[[Colonial Day]]
**[[Home, Part I]]
**[[Home, Part II]]
*...and succeeds.
**[[Bastille Day]]
**[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]

==...Lee Adama... ==
*...uses one of his dad's phrases ("Be careful out there", "roll the hard six")
*...completely oversteps his authority and/or commits mutiny
*...acts self-righteous or angsty towards his dad ([[Miniseries]], [[Bastille Day]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]])
*...has a near-death experience.
**Nearly killed by [[Cylon Raiders]]. ([[Mini-Series]])
**Almost left for dead at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. ([[Mini-Series]])
**Almost killed by [[Tom Zarek]] and criminal mob. ([[Bastille Day]])
**Almost killed by [[Cylon Centurion]]s ([[Valley of Darkness|Two]] [[Home, Part I|Occasions]])
**Ejects into space with a leak in his flight suit. ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]])
**Almost killed by gangters. ([[Black Market]])
**Accidentally shot. ([[Sacrifice]])
**Put in command of ''Pegasus''. ([[The Captain's Hand]])
*...angsts over said near-death experiences. ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]], [[Black Market]], [[The Captain's Hand]])

==Miscellaneous==
...[[Billy Keikeya|Billy]] and [[Anastasia Dualla|Dee]] stare at each other like two teenagers but never actually do anything.

...Someone gets promoted. This includes Roslin being sworn in as President ([[Miniseries]]), as well as when nuggets like Hot Dog get their wings ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]), someone is elected to the Quorum of Twelve (Zarek or Baltar) or elected Vice President ("[[Colonial Day]]"), or any other regular promotions within the military such as Starbuck in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]".
*Take two drinks if someone is promoted twice in one episode, ie: Major Lee Adama to Commander Lee Adama in [[The Captain's Hand]].

...[[CIC]] bursts into applause. ([[Mini-Series]], [[You Can't Go Home Again]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|Hand of God]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], [[The Farm]], [[Home, Part I]], [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]])
*Bonus drink if it prefigures an assassination attempt. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]])

...Six comes up with some vague mystical interpretation of Baltar's travails.

...Elosha comes up with some vague mystical interpretation of Roslin's travails.

...Roslin comes up with some vague mystical interpretation of the Fleet's travails.

...Leoben comes up with some vague mystical interpretation of Starbuck's travails.

...Gaeta says, "Yes, sir." (''On this one, alone, most of us would need a "commercial break"'' after one episode...)

...Apollo's modesty is thwarted by the smallest towel in the fleet.

...Laura Roslin uses her Stare of You-Gotta-Be-Frakking-Kidding-Me.

...A Cylon says "By your command".

...[[Jammer]] says something that hints that he may be a Cylon.

==Production==
*...Michael Rymer's camera makes a full 360° revolution.
**''In this case, everyone in the room must spin around until the scene is over.''
*''Link arms with someone else and take a shot together every time Michael Rymer cross-cuts between two nearly identical scenes.'' ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]], [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]])
*...the producers re-use stock special effects footage.
**...an establishing shot of the [[Galactica]] from the side, surrounded by the fleet.
**...an establishing shot of the [[Galactica]] from the top.
**...an establishing shot of the [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]] from the side.
**...the civilian fleet jump from the [[Mini-Series]].
**...the Viper Launch sequence.
**...''Take another drink of the the stock footage leads to logic gaps.''
*...Bear McCreary re-uses stock musical cues.
**The Number Six/Cylon leitmotif
**"Bloodshed" (the Adama death theme from [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]) in [[The Farm]], [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]] and [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
**"Prelude to War" in the [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]] battle sequence
**The "Destiny/Baltar's Dream" leitmotif
*...Bear McCreary finds some excuse to use the Stu Phillips theme from the original series.
**[[Mini-Series]] (Twice)
**[[Final Cut]]
*...Bear McCreary re-uses music from Richard Gibbs' [[Mini Series]] soundtrack.
*...Bear McCreary throws in some new musical influences out of nowhere.
**Hindu prayer - UK/Season Two opening
**Celtic folk song - "Wander My Friends"
**Italian pseudo-opera - "Battlestar Operatica"
**Elevator music - "Battlestar Muzaktica"
**Heavy metal - "Battlestar Metallica"
**Orchestral piece - "The Shape of Things to Come" / "Passacaglia"
**Electric Violin / Thundering Bass - "Destiny" / "Baltar's Dream"
**Piano - "Metamorphosis One" ("[[Valley of Darkness]]")
**Guitar solo - [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]] / [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]] opening

==...Kara Thrace and Lee Adama...==
*...stare at eachother, strangely for non-work-related reasons.
*...exchange blows
*...kiss

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Silly Pages]]

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II

2006-03-11T05:24:51Z

Redwall: /* Guest Stars */

Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II/Archive2

2006-03-11T05:13:34Z

Redwall: /* DubyaBaltar */

Talk:Season 3 (2006-07)/Archive 1

2006-03-10T12:23:38Z

Redwall:

"And so, it begins..." --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:29, 20 November 2005 (EST)

"I have a source the episode,"lay down your burdens", it says there that Adama will still be an Admiral by the end of thr season as well as everyone else." --[[User:Destinymaker|Destinymaker]] 22 November 2005 (CST)

:Should have stated that clearly --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:28, 21 November 2005 (EST)

Anyone know yet when the third season will start? (How long will we have to wait after the season finale before we get our BSG fix again?) --[[User:Gallanosa|Gallanosa]] 20:52, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:It's usually in July (I think last year it was on July 20, so I'd guess the 21st for this year.) --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 21:42, 2 March 2006 (CST)
::An official source, I forget who it is now, said that season 3 will air beginning in October
::It came from [http://www.gateworld.net/news/2006/03/igalacticaisetforoctoberse.shtml GateWorld]. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 21:07, 9 March 2006 (CST)
:::SciFi Wire, technically. Gateworld just dualled it. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 06:23, 10 March 2006 (CST)

Hydronic mushies

2006-03-10T02:18:10Z

Redwall: ...another revert...

[[Image:Mushies.jpg|thumb|right|Athena enjoys the mushies on her date with Starbuck aboard the ''Rising Star'' ([[The Long Patrol]]).]]
'''Hydronic mushies''', or more commonly known as '''mushies''', is a nutrious foodstuff that is multi-colored and typically cube-shaped.

Mushies are instrumental in saving the lives of numerous crew members, including [[Boomer (TOS)|Boomer]], [[Athena (TOS)|Athena]] and [[Boxey (TOS)|Boxey]], who are stranded in the ''[[Galactica (TOS)|Galactica]]'s'' [[rejuvenation center]] after a suicidal [[Cylon]] attack crippled the ship. [[Muffit#The "Muffit II"|Muffit]], who had just recently been trained by Boxey to "sniff" out mushies, is employed to negotiate the convoluted maze of ventilation ducts, delivering lifemasks to the crew and rescuing a fallen firefighter from the flames ([[Fire in Space]]).

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: Colonial Society (TOS)]]
[[Category: TOS]]

Talk:List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)/Archive 1

2006-03-09T12:06:53Z

Redwall: /* Downloaded */

This is one of the places where our new spoiler policy (whichever it is) will need to be vigilantly enforced. [[Gina]] is listed as having appeared in [[Resurrection Ship]], which of course has not aired yet. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:02, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

We also need to standardize names. We have "Coztanza", "Kat / Katraine", "Sekou Hamilton", etc. I would advocate first last just like the article titles -- it took me a second to figure out who "Conoy" was. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 23:18, 15 September 2005 (EDT)
==Downloaded==
Why does someone keep on removing the entries for [[Downloaded]] regarding Leoben and Simon. Even if they are doubles, I believe they are intended to be those characters. I can't concieve of any point for introducing new Cylons in the background who look sorta like two we already know, but are not, and furthermore, not telling us about them. The fact that they don't have any dialogue or anything (which might make it clearer that it was a double), implies that they are the same models. --[[User:Mojorising1985|mojorisng1985]] 18:07, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:We know as fact that they are indeend ''intended'' to represent Simon and Leoben, from RDM's podcast, but nonetheless in terms of keeping track of actors this doesn't count, etc. And "why does someone" keep doing that: check the history page; the reasons are in the summary sentence for the edits.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:07, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::But the page isn't about the actors playing them, it is about the characters. If Simon appears in more than one episode, he is a recurring character, even if the actor is different. The name of the page was "recurring characters", not "recurring actors". If the purpose of the page is to "keep track of the actors", than perhaps someone should change the name of the page to "List of Recurring Actor Apperances."--[[User:Mojorising1985|mojorisng1985]] 19:13, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::Nonetheless, I strongly feel that this does not count. We will await consensus on this matter here on this Discussion page. In the meantime, refrain from making any further edits. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:24, 25 February 2006 (EST)
:So far, two users are in favor of putting the characters in, while one isn't. It has been shown that they are intended to be the actual characters, so they should be included in this page, which is after all the ''recurring character''' article. It is true that they are not the same actors; but as has already been shown, that is why we have a separate recurring actors page. And as to the argument that they shouldn't be added because it's not sure if they're the ''exact same individual'' that we've sene before, that same argument would mean that every Cylon in that episode would have to be removed from appearing in that episode. Your argument has nothing to rest on, and you are outvoted in any regards, and I will ask you not to continue to be a sore loser. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 22:43, 8 March 2006 (CST)

::I am not in favor of including them, under the circumstances, since they neither had lines nor were played by their regular actors. That makes it a tie vote, anyway. Anyone else? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:33, 9 March 2006 (CST)

:::I would say include them, but with a parentheses of "body double" or something similar. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 06:06, 9 March 2006 (CST)

List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)

2006-03-07T02:04:51Z

Redwall: /* Simon */

: ''For a more succinct list, refer to: [[List of Recurring Characters (RDM)]].''

==D'anna Biers==
[[D'anna Biers|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Lucy Lawless]]
*Season 2
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Downloaded]]
*Season 3
**10 episodes

==Helena Cain==
[[Helena Cain|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Michelle Forbes]]
*Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
**[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
**[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]

==Cally==
[[Cally|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Nicki+Clyne Nicki Clyne]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[33]]
** [[Water]]
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[Six Degrees of Separation]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
** [[Colonial Day]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]
** [[Fragged]]
** [[Resistance]]
** [[The Farm]]
** [[Flight of the Phoenix ]]
** [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
** [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
** [[Epiphanies]]
** [[The Captain's Hand]]
** [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]

==Leoben Conoy==
[[Leoben Conoy|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Callum Keith Rennie]]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Flesh and Bone]]

==Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza==
[[Brendan Constanza|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Bodie Olmos]]
* Season One (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
*Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]
** [[Resistance]]
** [[Final Cut]]
** [[Scar]]

==Cottle (Doctor)==
[[Cottle|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Donnelly+Rhodes Donnelly Rhodes]
* Season One (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[Six Degrees of Separation]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
*Season 2
**[[Fragged]]
**[[Resistance]]
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Flight of the Phoenix ]]
**[[Epiphanies]]
**[[Black Market]]
**[[The Captain's Hand]]

==Aaron Doral==
[[Aaron Doral|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Matthew Bennett]]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Flesh and Bone]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]
*Season 2
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Downloaded]]

==Margaret "Racetrack" Edmonson==
[[Margaret Edmonson|Character Biography]]

Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1489668/ Leah Cairns]
*Season 1 (2004/5)
**[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
*Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[Scattered]]
**[[Valley of Darkness]]
**[[Fragged]]
**[[Resistance]]
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Flight of the Phoenix]]
**[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
**[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
**[[Epiphanies]]
**[[Black Market]]
**[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]

==Elosha==
[[Elosha|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Lorena+Gale Lorena Gale]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Resistance]]
**[[The Farm]]
**[[Home, Part I]]

==Gina==
[[Gina|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Tricia Helfer]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
** [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
** [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
** [[Epiphanies]]

==Hadrian==
[[Hadrian|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Jill Teed]]
*Season 1 (2004/5)
**[[Act of Contrition]]
**[[Litmus]]

==Sekou Hamilton==
[[Sekou Hamilton|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Biski Gugushe]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Colonial Day]]
** [[Flesh and Bone]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
** [[Home, Part I]]

==Louanne "Kat" Katraine==
[[Louanne Katraine|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Lucianna+Carro Lucianna Carro]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[Scattered]]
**[[Valley of Darkness]]
**[[Home, Part I]]
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
**[[Epiphanies]]
**[[Scar]]

==Aaron Kelly==
[[Aaron Kelly|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0648153/ Ty Olsson]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]
**[[Final Cut]]

==Meier==
[[Meier|Character Biography]]
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar]
*Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[Home, Part I]]
**[[Home, Part II]]

=="Chuckles" Perry==
[[Perry|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Terry+Chen Terry Chen]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]

==Dwight "Flat Top" Saunders==
[[Dwight Saunders|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Colby+Johannson Colby Johannson]
*Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Act of Contrition]]

== Simon==
[[Simon|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Rick+Worthy Rick Worthy]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[The Farm]]

==Socinus==
[[Socinus|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Alonso+Oyarzun Alonso Oyarzun]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[33]]
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]

==Ellen Tigh==
[[Ellen Tigh|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Kate Vernon]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]
** [[Colonial Day]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]
** [[Fragged]]
** [[Resistance]]
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Sacrifice]]

==Tom Zarek==
[[Tom Zarek|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Richard Hatch]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Colonial Day]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Fragged]]
** [[Resistance]]
** [[The Farm]]
** [[Home, Part I]]
** [[Home, Part II]]
** [[Black Market]]
** [[The Captain's Hand]]
** [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters|*]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Lists]]

List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)

2006-03-07T02:04:26Z

Redwall: /* Simon */

: ''For a more succinct list, refer to: [[List of Recurring Characters (RDM)]].''

==D'anna Biers==
[[D'anna Biers|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Lucy Lawless]]
*Season 2
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Downloaded]]
*Season 3
**10 episodes

==Helena Cain==
[[Helena Cain|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Michelle Forbes]]
*Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
**[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
**[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]

==Cally==
[[Cally|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Nicki+Clyne Nicki Clyne]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[33]]
** [[Water]]
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[Six Degrees of Separation]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
** [[Colonial Day]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]
** [[Fragged]]
** [[Resistance]]
** [[The Farm]]
** [[Flight of the Phoenix ]]
** [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
** [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
** [[Epiphanies]]
** [[The Captain's Hand]]
** [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]

==Leoben Conoy==
[[Leoben Conoy|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Callum Keith Rennie]]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Flesh and Bone]]

==Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza==
[[Brendan Constanza|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Bodie Olmos]]
* Season One (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
*Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]
** [[Resistance]]
** [[Final Cut]]
** [[Scar]]

==Cottle (Doctor)==
[[Cottle|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Donnelly+Rhodes Donnelly Rhodes]
* Season One (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[Six Degrees of Separation]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
*Season 2
**[[Fragged]]
**[[Resistance]]
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Flight of the Phoenix ]]
**[[Epiphanies]]
**[[Black Market]]
**[[The Captain's Hand]]

==Aaron Doral==
[[Aaron Doral|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Matthew Bennett]]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Flesh and Bone]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]
*Season 2
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Downloaded]]

==Margaret "Racetrack" Edmonson==
[[Margaret Edmonson|Character Biography]]

Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1489668/ Leah Cairns]
*Season 1 (2004/5)
**[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
*Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[Scattered]]
**[[Valley of Darkness]]
**[[Fragged]]
**[[Resistance]]
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Flight of the Phoenix]]
**[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
**[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
**[[Epiphanies]]
**[[Black Market]]
**[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]

==Elosha==
[[Elosha|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Lorena+Gale Lorena Gale]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Resistance]]
**[[The Farm]]
**[[Home, Part I]]

==Gina==
[[Gina|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Tricia Helfer]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
** [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
** [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
** [[Epiphanies]]

==Hadrian==
[[Hadrian|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Jill Teed]]
*Season 1 (2004/5)
**[[Act of Contrition]]
**[[Litmus]]

==Sekou Hamilton==
[[Sekou Hamilton|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Biski Gugushe]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Colonial Day]]
** [[Flesh and Bone]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
** [[Home, Part I]]

==Louanne "Kat" Katraine==
[[Louanne Katraine|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Lucianna+Carro Lucianna Carro]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[Scattered]]
**[[Valley of Darkness]]
**[[Home, Part I]]
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
**[[Epiphanies]]
**[[Scar]]

==Aaron Kelly==
[[Aaron Kelly|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0648153/ Ty Olsson]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]
**[[Final Cut]]

==Meier==
[[Meier|Character Biography]]
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar]
*Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[Home, Part I]]
**[[Home, Part II]]

=="Chuckles" Perry==
[[Perry|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Terry+Chen Terry Chen]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]

==Dwight "Flat Top" Saunders==
[[Dwight Saunders|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Colby+Johannson Colby Johannson]
*Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Act of Contrition]]

== Simon==
[[Simon|Character Biography]] 
[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Rick+Worthy Rick Worthy]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[The Farm]]

==Socinus==
[[Socinus|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Alonso+Oyarzun Alonso Oyarzun]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[33]]
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]

==Ellen Tigh==
[[Ellen Tigh|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Kate Vernon]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]
** [[Colonial Day]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]
** [[Fragged]]
** [[Resistance]]
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Sacrifice]]

==Tom Zarek==
[[Tom Zarek|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Richard Hatch]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Colonial Day]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Fragged]]
** [[Resistance]]
** [[The Farm]]
** [[Home, Part I]]
** [[Home, Part II]]
** [[Black Market]]
** [[The Captain's Hand]]
** [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters|*]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Lists]]

List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)

2006-03-07T02:02:53Z

Redwall: /* Cottle (Doctor) */

: ''For a more succinct list, refer to: [[List of Recurring Characters (RDM)]].''

==D'anna Biers==
[[D'anna Biers|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Lucy Lawless]]
*Season 2
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Downloaded]]
*Season 3
**10 episodes

==Helena Cain==
[[Helena Cain|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Michelle Forbes]]
*Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
**[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
**[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]

==Cally==
[[Cally|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Nicki+Clyne Nicki Clyne]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[33]]
** [[Water]]
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[Six Degrees of Separation]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
** [[Colonial Day]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]
** [[Fragged]]
** [[Resistance]]
** [[The Farm]]
** [[Flight of the Phoenix ]]
** [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
** [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
** [[Epiphanies]]
** [[The Captain's Hand]]
** [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]

==Leoben Conoy==
[[Leoben Conoy|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Callum Keith Rennie]]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Flesh and Bone]]

==Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza==
[[Brendan Constanza|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Bodie Olmos]]
* Season One (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
*Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]
** [[Resistance]]
** [[Final Cut]]
** [[Scar]]

==Cottle (Doctor)==
[[Cottle|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Donnelly+Rhodes Donnelly Rhodes]
* Season One (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[Six Degrees of Separation]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
*Season 2
**[[Fragged]]
**[[Resistance]]
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Flight of the Phoenix ]]
**[[Epiphanies]]
**[[Black Market]]
**[[The Captain's Hand]]
**[[Downloaded]]

==Aaron Doral==
[[Aaron Doral|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Matthew Bennett]]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Flesh and Bone]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]
*Season 2
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Downloaded]]

==Margaret "Racetrack" Edmonson==
[[Margaret Edmonson|Character Biography]]

Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1489668/ Leah Cairns]
*Season 1 (2004/5)
**[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
*Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[Scattered]]
**[[Valley of Darkness]]
**[[Fragged]]
**[[Resistance]]
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Flight of the Phoenix]]
**[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
**[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
**[[Epiphanies]]
**[[Black Market]]
**[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]

==Elosha==
[[Elosha|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Lorena+Gale Lorena Gale]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Resistance]]
**[[The Farm]]
**[[Home, Part I]]

==Gina==
[[Gina|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Tricia Helfer]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
** [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
** [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
** [[Epiphanies]]

==Hadrian==
[[Hadrian|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Jill Teed]]
*Season 1 (2004/5)
**[[Act of Contrition]]
**[[Litmus]]

==Sekou Hamilton==
[[Sekou Hamilton|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Biski Gugushe]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Colonial Day]]
** [[Flesh and Bone]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
** [[Home, Part I]]

==Louanne "Kat" Katraine==
[[Louanne Katraine|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Lucianna+Carro Lucianna Carro]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[Scattered]]
**[[Valley of Darkness]]
**[[Home, Part I]]
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
**[[Epiphanies]]
**[[Scar]]

==Aaron Kelly==
[[Aaron Kelly|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0648153/ Ty Olsson]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]
**[[Final Cut]]

==Meier==
[[Meier|Character Biography]]
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar]
*Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[Home, Part I]]
**[[Home, Part II]]

=="Chuckles" Perry==
[[Perry|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Terry+Chen Terry Chen]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Act of Contrition]]
** [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]

==Dwight "Flat Top" Saunders==
[[Dwight Saunders|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Colby+Johannson Colby Johannson]
*Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Act of Contrition]]

== Simon==
[[Simon|Character Biography]] 
* Season 2 (2005/6)
**[[The Farm]]

==Socinus==
[[Socinus|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Alonso+Oyarzun Alonso Oyarzun]
* [[Mini-Series]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[33]]
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Litmus]]
** [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
** [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]

==Ellen Tigh==
[[Ellen Tigh|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Kate Vernon]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]
** [[Colonial Day]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Scattered]]
** [[Valley of Darkness]]
** [[Fragged]]
** [[Resistance]]
**[[Final Cut]]
**[[Sacrifice]]

==Tom Zarek==
[[Tom Zarek|Character Biography]] 
Played by: [[Richard Hatch]]
* Season 1 (2004/5)
** [[Bastille Day]]
** [[Colonial Day]]
* Season 2 (2005/6)
** [[Fragged]]
** [[Resistance]]
** [[The Farm]]
** [[Home, Part I]]
** [[Home, Part II]]
** [[Black Market]]
** [[The Captain's Hand]]
** [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters|*]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Lists]]

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I

2006-03-07T02:02:29Z

Redwall: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 19
| Guests= [[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]] [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0874001/ Michael Trucco] as [[Samuel Anders]]
| Writer=[[Ronald D. Moore]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate=March 3, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= 49,579
| Prev= [[Downloaded]]
| Next= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]
}}

== Overview ==
''As the presidential election looms just weeks away, the accidental discovery of a habitable planet sparks debate in the Fleet: Colonize? Or keep seeking Earth? Meanwhile, Starbuck leads a rescue mission of Raptors back to Caprica to save Anders and his resistance''.

== Summary ==
*[[William Adama|Adama]] has finally given [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] the go-ahead to plan a rescue mission to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Caprica]]. On [[Pegasus (RDM)|''Pegasus'']], she lays out their plan: they will use ''all'' of their remaining [[Raptor|Raptors]] — 20 in all — and use the navigation computer/organ from one of the captured [[Heavy Raider]]s to calculate the Jumps back to Caprica. Using this, they can make it back to Caprica in a series of 10 Jumps. They will go undetected when they reach Caprica by making a risky jump to just a few klicks above the surface, within the atmosphere itself, below [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] [[DRADIS]]. Their biggest obstacle to doing this was actually interfacing with the Heavy Raider's navigation "computer", but now they will take [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|''Caprica''-Sharon]] along in Starbuck's Raptor with it; Sharon will directly interface with the computer (by inserting a fiber-optic cable into her arm, like she did in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]").
*The presidential election is two weeks away, and [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] is ahead in the polls. The only real arguments that [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] has against her that give him any ground are when he accuses her of pandering to the religious fundamentalists (i.e. her recent policy switch on abortion) and guiding the Fleet based on the scriptures alone. Conferring with his campaign manager [[Tom Zarek]] in his lab, Baltar realizes he'll need more than this to turn the fleet againt Roslin. Meanwhile, Roslin is doing a little rehearsal ritual for the presidential debate with Adama in his quarters.
*On the hangar deck, [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] is sleeping on the floor and twitching convulsively, having a nightmare. [[Cally]] searches around the deck to find him, and is confused by the sight when she finds him. Cally tried to wake Tyrol up, but snapping right out of his nightmare he attacks Cally, punching her in the face until she is a bloody pulp and unconscious. Realizing where he is and what's going on, Tyrol is horrified, and carries Cally in his arms to sickbay.
*[[Lee Adama|Apollo]], now commander of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', has conflicting feelings about Starbuck's mission to rescue Anders, but wishes her good luck in finding him.
*[[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and ''Caprica''-Sharon travel in Starbuck's Raptor. Sharon is still deeply depressed about her daughter [[Hera]]'s seeming death, and has been shutting herself out. Helo tells her that he won't let her do that and won't give up on her. Sharon tells him that she has the feeling that something bad will happen in the future; not on the mission to Caprica, but something else.
*On the very first jump out of the series of ten, [[Margaret Edmonson|Racetrack]]'s Raptor jumps to the wrong set of coordinates. Starbuck's orders were to keep going ahead until they lose 3 Raptors, so they go on ahead, while Racetrack prepares to follow her orders to return to [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']] if separated. Her Raptor jumped into the middle of a gas cloud with a lot of interference, and upon clearing it, a new planet is found. Scanners indicate that it is a human-habitable planet. She returns to ''Galactica'' with news of the discovery.
*The crew goes over the scans from the planet; it can sustain human life and subsequent scouting shows that in contains animal and vegetative life; they could indeed settle here. However, it is a cold world and somewhat harsh; only a temperate band around the equator covering about 20% of the surface would be habitable. After some prodding from [[Six]], Baltar and Zarek realize that they can use this as their wedge issue to turn the people against Roslin: offer them permament colonization on this planet.
*[[Tory Foster|Tory]] goes over new poll numbers with Roslin on [[Colonial One]]: Baltar has been gaining ground with his new offer to stop running from the Cylons and stay here. The planet is hidden by interference from the gas clouds, and many people want to just stop their constant chase in the refugee fleet. Roslin points out that if the Colonials could find the planet, the Cylons could just as easily. Also, life on the planet would be harsh. Tory points out that Baltar is pandering to the people's hopes, giving them false ones that they greatly desire, while Roslin is pointing out justifiable fears that they simply don't want to hear; people will vote their hopes.
*Shocked by his attack on Cally, Chief Tyrol has asked for religious counselling, and meets with a priest named [[Brother Cavil]]. Tyrol explains that it is because he doesn't believe that psychoanalysis works, but is himself a very [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|religious]] man. Cavil is somewhat loose and sarcastic in his counseling, leaving Tyrol a little pertubed and confused. Cavil tells Tryol that he must look for the problem in himself and questions Tyrol, and when Tyrol denies that he has been having disturbing dreams, Cavil can see through it, so Tyrol relents.
*For weeks, Tyrol has been having the recurring dream that he walks onto the upper level of the hangar deck, climbs over the railing and kills himself by jumping to his death. Cavil says it is because Tyrol has a subconscious desire to kill himself. Tyrol explains that he has had the gnawing worry since [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]] died that he might himself be a [[Cylon agent|Cylon]]. ''Galactica''-Sharon never really knew she was a Cylon, even up to the point that she died, but reported strange fears that something bad was going to happen and she had to stop herself: how would Tyrol, or anyone else, really ''know'' if they were a Cylon sleeper agent or not? Tyrol is frightened by the prospect.
*Cavil assured Tyrol that he is not a Cylon, sarcastically quipping that he knows because he is a Cylon himself, and hasn't seen Tyrol at any of the meetings. Tyrol feels ashamed to go back to the hangar deck crew after the accident, but Cavil assures him that they're the only family he has left, and they love him. Cally most of all.
*At the final presidential debate, Baltar's charisma and hopes of finally giving up their run from the Cylons starts to pull him ahead in the polls, and Roslin's warnings that this planet is not safe and determination to keep searching for Earth do not gain wide support. Baltar apparently wins the final debate. Roslin tells him to go frak himself.
*The Raptors rescuse mission makes the final jump to Caprica. [[Raptor 612]] is lost because it jumps right into the middle of a mountain. The remaining Raptors continue on, then Starbuck, Helo, Sharon and the marines continue on foot.
*One klick away from the resistance's base camp, they see movement, and find [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] and his whole group. Starbuck is overjoyed to see him, but Anders warns that the Cylons are right behind them; the resistance's base was ambushed that morning, and half of Anders' men are dead.
*The [[Colonial Marine Corps|marines]] and [[Resistance (movement)|resistance]] members start coming under Cylon artillery fire. After running briefly, they reach a point where the arc of the artillery shells is right above them, and cannot hit them. However, the artillery's killzone is now between them and retreat back to the Raptors. To be continued...

== Questions ==
*Did [[Raptor 612]] Jump "into" the mountain by crashing into it, or did they jump ''inside'' of it?
**RDM confirms in the podcast that by "jumped into the mountain" it doesn't mean "they jumped close to it and thus crashed", it means, exactly like a Star Trek transporter accident, that they materialized from the Jump into solid rock, "half-phased".
*If Raptor 612 was destroyed by jumping into a mountain, how was their transponder still operational?
**Perhaps that part of the Raptor was in an air pocket in the rock, and thus not phased into it. RDM says in the podcast that the Raptor Jumping into the mountain wasn't like "swapping" spatial matter between two points: like a teleporter accident, the Raptor and its crew were horrifically merged into the rock itself.
*Is the previous distance limit for Colonial [[FTL]] jumps on account of something like mathematical calculations? Have any of the other Raptors, besides the lead Raptor, been modified, or do they just receive coordinates from the one Raptor with Caprica-Boomer and the Cylon device?
**No, or at least, not entirely. Based on Starbuck's jump back to Caprica in a Cylon Raider and other comments made in season 1, the Cylon FTL drive is far more capable to begin with. Colonial navigation systems would not be designed to take advantage of a markedly superior FTL drive because there would have been no need. Even by using the Cylon navigation computer, with its much better calculations, they needed ten jumps to return to Caprica.
*Does the fleet have the resources to sustain long term settlements on the newly found planet?
**Shelter could be taken care of by canabalizing the ships of the fleet for building materials. But the question of how many homes can be made for how many of the 49,000+ survivors simply by recycling the materials availible still remains. Even if ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' themselves were recycled, would there be enough materials, or would the Battlestars still be necessary for orbital defence?
**The planet itself may have natural resources—in "[[Scar]]", a mining ship collected metals to build new Vipers, so mining the planet itself may be possible. In this case it would be unnecessary to cannibalize the fleet.
*Zarek says the people have been cooped up in metal boxes since the attack. How literally does he mean this—for instance, are people living inside converted cargo holds as they were in the original series?
**Judging from RDM's podcast, he just meant being stuck inside of cramped ships in general, i.e. even the ''Galactica'' crew (who have dedicated crew quarters).
*How was the Raptor able to jump back to the fleet if their FTL navigation computer was not working properly?
**Racetrack's navigator says she gave him the coordinates, so it is possible that she relayed them incorrectly rather than a malfunction in the computer. Alternatively, they could have tracked down any fault and repaired it. In any case, the coordinates for the Raptor's original jump point would probably still be in the system.
*What about the Cylons hiding within the fleet? With the possible settlement of the planet being openly debated can the Cylon infiltrators not contact the Cylon fleet and inform them of the Colonials intentions?
**Perhaps the interference around the planet is blocking long range communications?
**Caprica-Sharon implies that there are Cylons amongst the fleet by telling Adama she would not identify them if asked.
*Laura states that Baltar does not have a key issue besides the "religious angle." What about the abortion issue from "[[The Captain's Hand]]"?
**Anti-abortion opinion is primarily based on religion.
*When exactly did the Raptors leave for Caprica? If the episode lasts about two weeks, did it take that long to get to Caprica?

== Analysis ==
*Timeline:
**Zarek states that the people of the fleet have been "cooped up in metal boxes for nine months", putting this episode not long after "[[Downloaded]]".
**At the beginning of the episode, the election is still "two weeks away".
**At the beginning of the first debate, the announcer states Balter declared his bid for presidency a month ago.
**At the conclusion of the second debate, the polls will open in three days.
*[[Margaret Edmonson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmonson]] is apparently assigned to ''Pegasus'' at present, since Dualla refers to her mission as the "Pegasus survey team".
**She could have been flying a ''Pegasus'' Raptor.
*[[Lee Adama]] is now wearing a wristwatch, perhaps [[Barry Garner]]'s from "[[The Captain's Hand]]".
*It is safe to emerge from a hyperspace jump inside a planetary atmosphere at 2km, but not within solid rock. For comparative purposes, the density of air at 2km in an earth-like atmosphere is about 1 kg/m3, while the density of silica rock is about 2,600 kg/m3.
*''BattlestarWiki'' has been trying for some time to reconcile on the [[Timeline (RDM)|Timeline]] the apparent jump from 3 months to 6 months that occured at the beginning of Season 2.5, a part of which was that back in "[[Bastille Day]]" it was stated on screen that the presidential elections were due in '''seven''' months. However, over 7 months passed by the end of "[[Scar]]", and there wasn't even talk of the elections until "[[The Captain's Hand]]". In the podcast for this episode, Ron Moore appears to reveal that he has simply forgotten this point. When he refers to the fact that "elections were promised back in "Bastille Day"", Moore says that he remembers that the line in "Bastille Day" was '''nine''' months, not seven. This is more than a one-episode goof, becuase one month after "Bastille Day" in "[[Colonial Day]]", it was stated that the elections were six months away. In the podcast it seems that Moore is truly and simply mistaken, and there is no explanation for the descrepancy betwen the "seven months after the attack" figures given in "Bastille Day" and "Colonial Day", and the new "nine months after the attack" figure at the end of season 2.5. It is simply a mistake.

== Notes ==
*The re-cap for this episode includes scenes not actually shown in previous episodes—for instance, Starbuck demanding to the dying Roslin circa "[[Epiphanies]]" that they go back and rescue the Caprica resistance.
*When Baltar sarcastically quips that Zarek (and Six) expect him to just sit around and wait for "The Hand of God" to deliver them something they can use to their advantage against Roslin, he is of course referencing the previous episode titled "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]". Ironically, Baltar considers himself the hand of God in that episode. Further, a "chance serendipitous event" (namely the discovery of an inhabitable planet) does deliver them something they can use against Roslin.
*Likewise, when Apollo wishes Starbuck "good hunting", there's a tone of concern, and he seems to pause before saying it, as if Apollo meant to say something else but changed his mind. This may be a reference to "[[33]]", when Starbuck tells Apollo to say "good hunting" instead of "be careful out there".
*This episode has many parallels to "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" and "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]": the discovery of an inhabitable planet, Gaeta plotting a Raptor jump dangerously close to a planet surface, Starbuck's use of captured Cylon technology to return to Caprica, the intercutting of several plot threads in the teaser, a character contemplating suicide out of fear of being a Cylon, and difficulties between Helo and Sharon. In addition, Tyrol's assault of Cally is something of a parallel to Helo shooting Sharon in "Kobol's Last Gleaming"—in both cases, a man driven to rage physically and emotionally wounds a woman who loves him.
*When Lt. Gaeta takes his shirt off in the head, he can be seen to still be sporting the tiger tatoo that we first saw in "[[Final Cut]]".
*The combined Colonial fleet had 20 Raptors in this episode, of which 1 was destroyed before the end. Previously, ''Galactica'' was confirmed to have at least 5 left ([[The Farm]]), with the suggestion that there may be as many as 8 ([[Resistance]]). Doubtlessly, ''Pegasus'' brought at least an equal number of Raptors with it when it joined the Fleet, but 20 is still a high number for this. Perhaps a disproportionately large number of Raptors escaped to [[Ragnar Anchorage]] during the [[Miniseries]]. Or perhaps like in real life with American Nimitz class Aircraft Carriers that carry a larger number of fighter aircraft compared to older Forrestal class carriers, the Pegasus, being a larger and more modern Battlestar than Galactica, it has the capability to carry a larger complement of Raptors. Unlike Vipers, Raptors do have FTL drives. We actually saw Boomer and Helo escaping the destruction of their Viper squadron, because Raptors do not engage in frontline combat, and because they have an extenstive ECM suite which Helo was trying to jam the Cylon virus signal with. Indeed, [[Crashdown]] was a Raptor ECO, but Boomer stated that he was not from ''Galactica'', but a refugee "from Triton" (either a battlestar or a planet).
**Also, more Raptors could have been built with extra materials after the Viper squadrons were manufactured ([[Scar]]).
*The jump error that landed the Raptor in the nebula was attributed to a "firmware error" by the crew. This may be an indication that there was firmware upgrade to deal with the increased FTL jump distances provided by the Cylon computer.
*When Cavil is consoling Tyrol's fears that he might unknowingly be a Cylon sleeper agent, just like Boomer was, Tyrol asks him how he can know for sure. Cavil sarcastically answers that it's because maybe he's a Cylon, and he hasn't seen Tyrol at any of the meetings: Number Six also sarcastically remarked to Baltar in the Miniseries that [[Aaron Doral]] could not be a Cylon, because she hadn't "seen him at any of the good Cylon parties"...but of course, Doral actually ''was'' a Cylon, implying that Cavil is truly more than he seems.
*Tory actually paraphrases the title of this episode aloud, saying that the new planet offers people in the Fleet the hope that they can "lay down their burdens" and stop running.
*During the premiere airing of this episode on the Sci-Fi Channel, before the Teaser segment a "Parental Discretion Is Advised" black and white message was inserted. At the end of the Teaser, Tyrol beats Cally to a bloody pulp.
*Lee Adama is now wearing a new uniform as Commander of ''Pegasus'': it is a Commander's uniform, denoted by the new red trim (with gold inner trim), and it has a white "''Pegasus'' BSG-62" patch, replacing his old gold "''Galactica'' BSG-75" patch.
*Dualla's photo of Adama is the left half of a group shot with Kara Thrace and his brother Zak Adama. The original belongs to Thrace, and she has kept it in her locker on ''Galactica'' since the miniseries.
*Dualla refers to "rivers of milk and honey" on the newly discovered planet. The phrase "land of milk and honey" is a common epithet for the promised land in the Torah, appearing in Exodus 3:8, 3:17, 13:5, 33:3, Leviticus 20:24, Number 13:27, 14:8, 16:13-14, and Deuteronomy 6:3.
*Commander Lee Adama is seen eating noodles with chopsticks in his quarters, just like his father in "[[33]]", etc. Interesting note Adama sticks his chopsticks inside the bowl of noodles so that the chopsticks stand up in the bowl, which is a sign of bad luck to the Chinese. Non-asians that use chopsticks frequently do not pay heed to the bad luck superstition, similiar to the Japanese custom of not giving knives as a wedding present for the same reason (bad luck). This is a sign of cultures borrowing from each other piecemeal.
*In the podcast, RDM states that originally instead of Starbuck, Helo, and Sharon leading the other Raptors in another Raptor, they would have been flying in the captured Heavy Raider itself. However, the 2 part season finale went overbudget and cuts had to be made, and the cost of building the Heavy Raider interior was deemed prohibitively expensive. Thus, they bring the Heavy Raider computer/organ with them in a normal Raptor. Moore said he believed that fans "wouldn't miss" an actual appearance by the Heavy Raider.
*Col. Tigh appears in this epsiode twice but doesn't speak a single line.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Chief Tyrol is worried that like'' Galactica''-Sharon, he could just as well be another Cylon sleeper agent:''
:'''Chief Tyrol:''' How do you know I'm human?
:'''Brother Cavil:''' Oh, well, maybe because I'm a Cylon and I've never seen you at any of the meetings.

*'''Brother Cavil:''' Do you know how useless prayer is? Chanting, and singing, and mucking about with old half-remembered lines of bad poetry? And you know what it gets you? Exactly nothing.

*'''Gaius Baltar:''' I'm not sure if you're aware, [[Tom Zarek|Tom]], but the mob isn't usually in the habit of electing ungodly apostates who denegrate people of faith.

== Official Statements ==

*''In an interview in issue #197 of TV Zone, James Callis (Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]]) said:'' "the arrival of the Pegasus has helped galvanize our characters into who they are and who they’re trying to be. These later episodes [in Season 2] also further drive home the fact that the Galactica’s crew could be exterminated by its own kind, meaning that Humans are potentially far more terrifying an enemy than perhaps the Cylons."

== Guest Stars ==

*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0874001/ Michael Trucco] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] as [[Brother Cavil]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Aaron+Douglas Aaron Douglas] as CPO [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Nicki+Clyne Nicki Clyne] as Specialist [[Cally]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Leah+Cairns Leah Cairns] [[Margaret Edmonson|Racetrack]]
*Rekha Sharma as [[Tory Foster]]
*Alisen Down as Jean Barclay
*Colin Lawrence as "Skulls" McCall
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0443286/ David Kaye] as [[James McManus]]

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]

The Raid

2006-03-06T21:22:04Z

Redwall:

'''The Raid''' was the title of an abandoned episode concept from season 2.0, which would have featured a Colonial raid on a Cylon space station ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I (podcast)]]). The idea for the episode arose from suggestions for an episode from the point of view of the Cylons -- suggestions that later resulted in "[[Downloaded]]" ([[Downloaded (podcast)]]).

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Behind the Scenes]]

Talk:Season two timeline discontinuity/Archive 1

2006-03-05T04:27:45Z

Redwall:

Please explain the basis for the statement:

"Shortly before Cally's release, Dr. Cottle updates Laura Roslin's prognosis, stating that she has one month to live, "at the outside". This puts her projected death at day 114."

On the DVD copy of Flight of the Phoenix on the Season 2.0 set, the order events in this episode are. 1) Cally is released from the brig, 2) Tyrol begins construction of the Blackbird. 3) Laura is given one month to live. There is no basis for the above statement unless the DVD version of this episode is somehow different to the broadcast version. --[[User:Rexpop|Rexpop]] 21:01, 4 March 2006 (CST)

:Interesting. I seem to have been convinced that Cally's release constrained Laura's life span projection somehow, but I can't seem to remember my reasoning on review. The alternative, I guess, is that about two and a half months passed in between Helo and Tyrol's fight (which was the same night as Cally's party) and Roslin's diagnosis. In the intervening scenes...
:*Dualla gets fried by the logic bomb and sent to Cottle
:*Lee nags Tyrol about Viper 289, leading him to come up with the idea for the Blackbird.
:*Tyrol starts the Blackbird project
:Still, all the construction work on the blackbird takes place after Roslin's diagnosis. I can see fudging a week here at the outside, but nothing more than that. Anyone else have thoughts? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:44, 4 March 2006 (CST)

::There's always the "different scenes do not take place concurrently" explanation. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 22:27, 4 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Season 3 (2006-07)/Archive 1

2006-03-03T03:42:53Z

Redwall:

Talk:Humanoid Cylon speculation/Archive4

2006-02-26T01:21:10Z

Redwall: /* Baltar's Entry */

== Please aid in concision ==

This article combines the speculations of the Humano-Cylon and Gaius Baltar articles. As such, it is very wordy. I added the conditional summaries to avoid having to say "Ron Moore said this-and-that" in each item. Still, the article is really all over the place. We need to pare each suspect to the basics--bullets if necessary. Please base your information only on what has been mentioned or clearly stated. Lack of evidence ("Nothing says that the Cylons couldn't have been introduced 5 years before the attacks") is invalid to the information actually stated for both Valerii's and Six character--their history is unclear 2 years prior. Concision should clear up the unnecessary editorial here and bring it to basics. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:46, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:Agreed, it should have been edited down for the sake of concision, as other points are made elsewhere. Thank you for editing it down to size. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:48, 1 February 2006 (EST)

=="At least" 2 years==

No Cylon ever said out loud, "we've been infiltrating your society for two years"; we saw that Number Six was going out with baltar for 2 years, and then that Galactica-Boomer had been on Galactica for 2 years, then made the connection. However, although ''wide-scale'' infiltration apparently occured 2 years ago, we have no way of knowing if this is when infiltration of any kind actually began. Case in point; Ellen Tigh. A (deleted) scene said that she was married to Saul Tigh for 7 years. Now, I think it would be highly unlikely that the Cylons developed the humanoid Cylons 10 years after the Cylon War (30 years ago) or something, but the possibility that they were using them for the past 5-10 years seems within the realm of possibility to me. Again, there was never a definative "rule". --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:48, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:I tend to agree. Although circumstantial evidence points to a widespread infiltration campaign launching two years before the miniseries, we have no idea when the Cylons actually developed the ability to construct humanoid models. This, however, should be noted once at the head of the article, not on a per-candidate basis. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:10, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::The circumstantial evidence is all we can go on to keep from making stuff up out of the range of given information. It was Baltar, talking to Six, that gave the length of time, but I can't recall Valerii's comment or reference to it. Yes, we do need to avoid repetition; there's a lot of it. I don't believe this article is intending to address or imply that the humanoid Cylons were created 2 years prior, but begin to appear 2 years prior. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:49, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:::But that's really the point (not "when were they made"); when were they ''first'' used to infiltrate the Colonies? We really don't know; we only know that two units were inside for 2 years. BTW, it's in "The Farm" when Adama states that Boomer was on the ship for almost 2 years. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:35, 1 February 2006 (EST)

== Billy's Entry ==
There is nothing of note in Billy's entry that could not be also said about Dualla, Tyrol, Cally, Racetrack, Kat, and other minor characters. It's unlikely that we can vouch for all character histories. It's their signficant, influential moments in an episode that appear questionable in intent, or their associations that are important. If there isn't a significant point about Billy's history that puts him at the same level of suspicion as Jammer or Bell, I move to strike this. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:06, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:Well, A) It's always the guy you least suspect, though that's more "paranoia" B) no one knows him, I mean even deckahands like Cally or Jammer were on the ship for at least a period of a few months, but *no one* other than Roslin met him before he first shows up on screen. And it would make sense to infiltrate a position with access to a cabinet member. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:37, 1 February 2006 (EST)
::Not disagreeing, but note that she was an extremely low-ranking cabinet member, and I doubt that the Cylons could have forseen either her "access" to Adar, or her assumption of the presidency after the attack. Besides, they already had Doral following her to Galactica's decommissioning ceremony. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 1 February 2006 (EST)

Given that Billy is now dead, his plausibility as a Cylon is completely moot ''unless'' he is found resurrected in a future episode (non-flashback). Only a Cylon agent comes back, which would validate the claim. Also, given that there hasn't been any further points that significantly differentiate his character's suspicion criteria over any other lesser character, I'd rather strike this. Farago's point that Roslin was accompanied by Doral indicates that ''Galactica'' was monitored anyway. There's no real logic leap that can give the Keikeya suspicion enough grounding in comparison to the others. Technically, Roslin herself could be a Cylon with the same logic in that we don't know for sure where she's been in the last two years beyond what's said in the miniseries and "Ephiphanies." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:58, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:If Billy was a cylon, what would his purpose have been? I can't see TPTB deciding to reveal him as a cylon in a future episode because it wouldn't make any sense! He would have had to be a sleeper agent, but he didn't do anything! For almost 9 months! When you're asleep that long, you're practically dead. It should be struck (striked?) --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 16:59, 25 February 2006 (EST)

== Baltar's Entry ==

Can we rule out Baltar as a Cylon now that we've seen "Downloaded"? The whole thing with Six seeing BALTAR in her head seem to imply a certain duality... Six's Baltar is trying to push the human agenda, and Baltar's Six is trying to push the Cylon agenda.--[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 23:54, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes, please. If Baltar were a Cylon, they couldn't have ''not'' mentioned it in "Downloaded". The whole line of inquiriy is ridiculous. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:00, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::Plus, numerous Cylon characters referred to him as human. I'm glad. I think it's a lot less interesting if he were a Cylon. I feel a bit reluctant to remove the whole thing though... I'll just add some information against it from Downloaded, and if anyone else feels it needs to go, they're welcome to delete it. --[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 00:02, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::My inclination is to give the "Baltar is a Cylon" boosters a couple days to defend the material here before we chop it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:05, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::By all means, I feel that we should give them a few days to defend themselves. However, although Six hallucinates Baltar...it is clearly implied that no other Cylons knew about him, and Number Three even says that they both fell in love with humans.
My feelings on the matter, summed up into an easy to read list, are:
:*Baltar-Six is definately NOT the same person as the Number Six we see at the beginning of the Miniseries: Caprica-Six is someone else entirely. Did she load *a separate, backup copy* of herself into Baltar? Still a possibility.
:*Baltar-Six is not a hallucination, this has been proven in "Home, Part II", but no chip is visible on scans: I believe that she is an "Organic Chip", undetectable to scans, and not an "angel" as she claims.
:*Caprica-Six's hallucinated visions of Baltar on the other hand, are simply that: hallucinations, brought on by the apparent stress of killing the man she loved
:*As an inhuman robot not used to emotions or love, this had a profound affect on her; even disregarding Baltar, she is also feeling profound guilt over killing the human race, because after loving Baltar, she's come to think that a loving God would never want what the Cylons did.
:So he's not a Cylon; it's just a cool way of visually showing us that Number Six and the Cylons are so near-human that when placed under moral strain or something, they can hallucinate just like people can. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:50, 25 February 2006 (EST)

*I will go out on a limb, and propose that this is in fact conclusive proof that Baltar is not a Cylon, because the Cylons amongst themselves say that he is a human. I had been waiting until (my pet theory) Baltar impregnants Gina, but now I feel that this is grounds, '''Spencerian''', to remind you of our [[Talk:Gaius Baltar#A Friendly Wager, Spencerian|Gentlemanly wager]], that if Baltar were proved not to be a Cylon, you would support me in an Administrator election. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:53, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::Not only is the notion staking an RFA vote on a petty wager rather more than a little disquieting, I'm not even sure Spence ever agreed to those terms. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:12, 25 February 2006 (EST)

The wager is not changed, but you came very close to losing it in "Downloaded." Nor, however, has any proof been revealed in this episode that negates the possibility of Baltar as a Cylon. In fact, since ''only'' Baltar and Six have appeared as virtual beings, this actually ''reinforces,'' not diminishes the possibility since, to this episode, only a Cylon image has appeared this way. Since ''both'' Baltar and Six appear as virtual beings to each other, AND this phenomena is obviously not known or planned for by the Cylons, this doesn't change the nature of what Baltar is or is not (or, by extension, Six). The results from "Downloaded" DO invalidate some of the postulations in the Gaius-the-Cylon speculation, which I will note when I can. When humans and Cylons are in love, things get weird. Note that this hasn't happened with Boomer and Tyrol, but maybe, maybe, their love was not complete enough to create this strange exchange of "love echo." Oh, and for two beings to have the ''exact'' kind of "hallucination" suggests that it is not an hallucination at all. Something else is going on. Peter's point on Baltar's lack of note by other Cylons, however, does have a point, of which I will chew on before commenting further. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:But if Baltar was a Cylon, than why was Six-Baltar pushing for the "human agenda" and talking about how bad it was that millions of humans were killed? --[[User:Mojorising1985|mojorisng1985]] 18:04, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::It was her impression of Baltar (whom she thinks is human). (I think this whole line of speculation is absolutely ludicrous, by the way; but that question really doesn't change anything.) --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:21, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Leoben Conoy (New Caprica copy)/Archive 1

2006-02-26T01:16:15Z

Redwall: /* Note on Cylon Numbers */

== Note on Cylon Numbers ==

I don't know what other people think, but now that four of the twelve Cylon model numbers are accounted for, can we put a note on Conoy saying something to the effect of, "Leoben Conoy is either Number 1, 2, 4, 7, 9, or 10? I couldn't figure out how to place it.--[[User:Wldkt1|Wldkt1]] 18:34, 25 February 2006 (EST)
:There's no way to word it without that being clumsy. We shouldn't make a note of it until we know for certain. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:40, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:Don't bother doing anything saying "well, it's one of these 8 numbers" is just too complicated.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:11, 25 February 2006 (EST)

I'm betting on Leoben being number 4. Anyone else want to venture a guess (just for fun)? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:16, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Resurrection Ship/Archive 1

2006-02-26T01:11:02Z

Redwall: /* Speculation */

I thought that the unknown cylon ship was shaped like a taurus? The ship that Starbuck took photos of in the blackbird was definintly not the same ship that was seen in Cain's earlier recon photos. Is this a completley different ship? Or did the writers just change the design of it because they didnt like the donut shaped one? --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 23:19, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:Good question. That original shot in Pegasus looked different to me too. If you listen to the podcast for this episode it only gets more confusing. RDM says that the design for the Reurrection Ship was finalized quite a while back. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 23:27, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:: It is extremely blurred in the photos, as far as I can tell. Hence the recon op. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:33, 6 January 2006 (EST)

Perhaps. After looking at it carefully, the ship in the recon photo looks like it could be the ship we saw in Res Ship part 1, if you put it "on its side" in relation to the basestars. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 23:42, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:::That was what I was thinking. It may look different from a different angle. Perhaps we should use this [http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/935/resship5fk.jpg pic] as another pic? Unless, ofcourse, someone has a better pic (hopefully). [[User:Blacklight|Blacklight]]

:::: The Resurrection ship in The Pegasus episode look more like an original basestar rather than a triangalur Prism.

:::::Correct for values of "more" == "not at all". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:20, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:::::I think we should wait for Ragnar Anchorage or someone else to post better caps, if by the end of today no one has, I'll give a link to a site that does have them up already, though they are smaller (by format) than the ones RA normally posts..--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 7 January 2006

Is there either a suitable nomenclature to refer to any Cylon with a biological component? Since the resurrection ship can download both Humano-Cylons and Raiders, I wanted a way to refer to both with a single term. Bio-Cylon seemed appropriate, though I now see it's already been negatively hijacked by original series purists. Other than the blurb I added at the end, this article refers exclusively to the resurrection of the humanoid form, which, we now know from "[[Scar]]", is technically insufficient. I wouldn't want to clutter up the entire article with the hybrid reference; a single clarification would suffice. I don't think my addition quite does the trick, though. --[[User:Timtrout|Timtrout]] 02:33, 7 February 2006 (EST)

:The matter was under fairly heated discussion recently. [[Humano-Cylon]] is the term currently in use, but I expect this to change in the near future. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:42, 7 February 2006 (EST)

::If you're looking for a catch-all term referring to both humanoid Cylons and Raiders (which are kind of the step halfway between humanoid Cylons and Centurions), I would go with "bio-mechanical models".--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 03:35, 7 February 2006 (EST)

==Speculation==

This is really just pure speculation that it is "slower"

''
Other effects may include delayed resurrection of Cylon Agents in the colonies, since resurrecting around a dozen Cylons now takes around 36 hours, whereas before resurrection was instantaneous. This probably means that only small scale Resurrection Apparatae have been installed in the Colonies, rednering the process far slower than with the Resurrection Ship, which could revive dozens of Cylons simultaneousley("[[Downloaded]]").''

--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:17, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:True, it is, but here is a new fact for the Resurrection Ship. When Sharon and Six get resurrected, the room they are in is inside the Resurrection Ship. I am sure of this. In the background you see empty pods, exactly the same as teh ones previousley seen in the ship, with the whole "Rib" edge and open middle. There is also a sort of mechanism to which they are attached, which implies they enter the room in the pod, then the body is removed (perhaps by other machinery) and placed in the tank. Here is a cap of a detail of the pod...

Resurrection Room:

Close
[http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/ResurrectionRoom.jpg]
[http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/ResurrectionRoom1.jpg]

Far Away
[http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/ResurrectionRoom2.jpg]

(Credit: Roger at Ausxip)

Resurrection Ship:

Far Away
[http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/BSG_02x11_058.jpg]

Close
[http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a201/Sauron18/BSG_02x11_059.jpg]

(Credit: BattlestarGalactica-Online.Com)

--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 25 February 2006

:No. It is so intentionally dark in the scene in "Downloaded" that we can barely see the room even with these pics. Further, the idea was that the Cylons did not originally need a Resurrection Ship; for all we know (indeed, more probably) Resurrection/Download facilities on the surface of the Cylon homeworld look fairly similar to mobile ones on the Resurrection ship. We can't really get anything definative from this. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:20, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::Those were definetley pods back there, and judging by the size and illumintation of the room and the period of time, it couldn't be in ultra shiny, just nuked caprica. Which would leave two choices, Homeworld and Resurrection Ship. Since they had the ship in the fleet, for this purpose exactly, it is likely that they didn't go all the way home, but rather in the ship. Its also what the ship was designed for, dropnet of Cylon Agents (and raiders) and since the point of the episode was to show us Cylon resurrection, it would be smart to use a room in the res ship. I think it is worthy enough to at least mention as: "It is quite possible that the room where Caprica-Six and Sharon Valerii resurrect is located, in fact, within the Resurrection ship. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 25 February 2006

:::No. From what we gathered in "Resurrection Ship, part I" the Res Ship was built ''after'' Galactica escaped outside of the range of the Cylon homeworld.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:48, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::::Thats not true, it wasn't built just for that. We don't actually get the direct Cylon Explanation, but the ship is too massive to build in that short amount of time. They already had the ship. --[[Sauron18|Sauron18]] 25 February 2006

:::::We have no idea how long it would take the Cylons to build a Resurrection Ship. It's very possible they built it after Galactica's escape. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:11, 25 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Downloaded/Archive 1

2006-02-25T19:09:19Z

Redwall:

Timeline (RDM)

2006-02-25T17:19:21Z

Redwall: /* Future Events */ -> Anders' radiation meds, elections

''Dates use the day of the [[Cylon Holocaust]] as a baseline. See also [[Survivor Count]], [[History of the Twelve Colonies]].''

==Ancient History==
*'''-3600 Years:''' [[Pythia]] records her prophecies.
*'''-2000 Years:''' The thirteen tribes leave [[Kobol]]: twelve for the [[Cyrannus System]], the other for [[Earth]].

==Recent Colonial History==
*'''-52 Years:''' Cylon revolt begins the [[Cylon War]]. [[Articles of Colonization]] signed ([[Colonial Day]], [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/04/index.html#a000025 RDM, April 11, 2005]).
*'''-51 Years''' Colonials suffer a major defeat when the Colonial ship ''[[Brenik]]'' is lost after a boarding action by Cylon Centurions, which resulted in some of the bloodiest, hand-to-hand fighting of the war. A young Petty Officer [[Saul Tigh]] is one of a handful of survivors.
*'''-50 Years:'''
** [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' enters service under Commander [[Peter Dash]].
*'''c. -41 years:''' [[William Adama]] beings his service in the Colonial Fleet as a Viper pilot, near the end of the Cylon War.
*'''-40 Years:''' Armistice between the Colonials and the Cylons ends the [[Cylon War]].
*'''-20 Years:'''
**Last significant [[FTL|Jump]] recorded on battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'s'' logs.
**[[Tom Zarek]] imprisoned for blowing up a government building on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]].
**[[William Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh]] first meet.
**[[Laura Roslin]] begins her career in politics.
*'''-7 Years:''' [[Saul Tigh|Saul]] and [[Ellen Tigh]] marry. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]], [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/deleted1.html deleted scene])
*'''-5 Years:''' [[Galen Tyrol]] assigned to ''Galactica''.
*'''-3 Years:''' [[Felix Gaeta]] assigned to ''Galactica''.
*'''-2 Years:'''
**[[Number Six]] (in the guise of Natasi) first encounters Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]].
**[[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|A copy of Sharon Valerii]] begins serving aboard ''Galactica''.
**[[Zak Adama]] dies in a flight school accident. His funeral is Lee and William Adama's last meeting until the miniseries.
**Lt. [[Kara Thrace]] is re-assigned from Flight School to Battlestar ''Galactica''.
*'''-1 Year:''' Last time [[William Adama]] and [[Caroline Adama]] speak.
*'''-Several months''' [[Caroline Adama]] gets engaged.
*'''-3 Weeks:''' [[Anastasia Dualla]] last visits her home.
*'''Zero Hour:''' Cylons [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|destroy]] the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. The (so-far-known) only known survivors are a rag-tag fugitive fleet escorted by ''Galactica''; ''Pegasus'', another [[Pegasus (RDM)|isolated battlestar]]; a fleet of 15 civilian FTL capable ships; and the [[Resistance (movement)|resistance]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. Events of the [[Mini-Series]].

==Season 1==
*'''1 Day:''' [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]. ''Galactica's'' fleet leaves [[Cyrannus]] System.
*'''6 Days:''' ''Galactica'' finally loses the Cylon pursuers. Events of episode "[[33]]".
*'''7 Days:''' ''Pegasus'' encounters a fleet of 15 civilian ships, including ''[[Scylla]]''.
*'''10 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Water]]"
*'''12 Days:''' Tom Zarek engineers the capture of the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' by its prisoner crew. Events of episode "[[Bastille Day]]".
*'''14 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Act of Contrition]]". [[Skirmish over the Red Moon|Starbuck is missing after a Cylon fight]].
*'''15 Days:''' Events of episode "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]"
*'''17 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Litmus]]"
*'''21 Days:''' First recollection by any of the ''[[Rising Star (RDM)|Rising Star]]'' crewmembers of giving [[Ellen Tigh]] medical assistance ("about a week" before "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]").
*'''24 Days:''' [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica Valerii]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] first make love. Events of episode "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]"
*'''25 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Flesh and Bone]]"
*'''26 Days:''' Ellen Tigh resumes consciousness ("a couple of days" before [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).
*'''28 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]".
*'''36 Days:''' [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]]. Caprica Valerii is pregnant and suffering morning sickness. Events of episode "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]".

===[[Colonial Day]]===

*'''Day 46:''' Delegates selected for the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. [[Tom Zarek]] selected to represent [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]]. Roslin implores Adama to permit his participation. [[Valance]] prepares to smuggle a ceramic stealth gun into the ''[[Cloud Nine]]''. Zarek addresses the fleet from the prison ship [[Astral Queen]]. Gaius Baltar selected to represent [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. Apollo and Starbuck inspect the [[Cloud Nine]].

*'''Day 47 - Morning:''' Colonial Day. Delegates arrive on Cloud Nine. Roslin addresses the Quorum. Baltar eyes [[Playa Palacios]]. Zarek moves to elect a vice president and is nominated by [[Marshall Bagott]]. Motion passes, chair to remain open 72 hours for nominations.

*'''Day 47 - Afternoon:''' Roslin asks [[Wallace Gray]] to run for the vice presidency. Zarek expounds on his reform agenda. Valence scuffles with Apollo and Starbuck and is jailed. Helo and Caprica Valerii arrive at a spaceport in the vicinity of [[Delphi]].

*'''Day 47 - Evening:''' Starbuck and Apollo interrogate Valence to no effect.

*'''Day 48 - Morning:''' Grey addresses the Quorum. [[Safiya Sanne]] changes [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]]'s vote to Zarek, bringing his total to 5 of 12.

*'''Day 48 - Afternoon:''' Zarek serves [[Ellen Tigh]] a drink and inquires after the whereabouts of Valence. Baltar interviewed by [[James McManus]]. Valence found dead. Tigh, Apollo and Starbuck consult with Roslin on security.

*'''Day 48 - Evening:''' Roslin travels to ''Cloud Nine'' and asks Grey to drop out of the race and recruits Baltar to replace him, interrupting his "exclusive" with Palacios. Apollo and Starbuck flirt in the bunk on ''[[Galactica]]''.

*'''Day 49 - Morning:''' Baltar elected Vice President, with Roslin casting the tie-breaking vote.

*'''Day 49 - Evening:''' Victory party for Baltar. Roslin dances with Adama, Ellen with Saul Tigh, Billy with Dualla, Starbuck with Apollo and Baltar.

*'''Day 49 - Night:''' Helo and Caprica Valerii infiltrate the spaceport. Helo discovers Valerii is a Cylon and flees.

''Note: Roslin states that the chair will remain open for nominations for 72 hours on the morning of Day 47, but the [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|next episode]] clearly takes place the day after the victory party, and is stated to take place on Day 50. Perhaps the Quorum moved to close the nomination period early after the nomination of a strong candidate.''

===[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]===
*'''Day 50 - Early Morning:''' Apollo and Adama spar. Baltar and Starbuck have sex. Caprica Valerii catches up with Helo at [[Delphi]], and he shoots her. ''Galactica'' Boomer contemplates suicide. [[Cottle]] examines Roslin and gives her "six months, at the outside".

*'''Day 50 - Morning:''' Starbuck and an (already) drunken Baltar exchange innuendos over the officer's card game.

*'''Day 50 - Afternoon:''' Roslin briefs Baltar on her economic agenda. [[Number Six|Six]] warns him that "it's not safe to remain on ''Galactica''". ''Galactica'' Boomer and Crashdown stumble upon [[Kobol]]. Helo holds Caprica Valerii at gunpoint. Apollo and Starbuck exchange blows.

*'''Day 50 - Evening:''' Roslin examines an orbital photograph of Kobol and has a vision of the [[City of the Gods]]. Adama decides to send an expedition, which Baltar demands to accompany. ''Galactica'' Boomer shoots herself on Baltar's advice. In private, Roslin unsuccessfully petitions Commander Adama to send the Cylon Raider after the [[Arrow of Apollo]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]].

*'''Day 50 - Night:''' [[Battle of Kobol]] begins. Scout party ambushed by a [[Cylon Basestar]] at Kobol. Starbuck devises a plan to deliver a nuke to the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] using the captured [[Cylon Raider|Raider]] and [[Cylon Transponder]]. Roslin convinces her to purloin the Raider and take it to Caprica instead.

===[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]===
*'''Day 51 - Early Morning:''' Survivors of [[Raptor 1]] escape the wreck. Baltar passes out. Adama terminates Roslin's presidency. Apollo and Tigh plan an assault on ''[[Colonial One]]''. Adama dispatches the wounded Boomer to take out the basestar. Caprica Valerii leads Helo to [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]].

*'''Day 51 - Morning:''' Starbuck arrives at Caprica, retrieves the [[Arrow of Apollo]], kills a copy of [[Number Six|Six]] and meets up with Helo. ''Galactica's'' [[Marines|marines]] board ''[[Colonial One]]''. Apollo mutinies, Roslin stands down. Baltar has a vision of the shape of things to come. ''Galactica'' Boomer confronts other Valerii copies on the basestar. She returns from her mission and shoots Commander Adama.

==Season 2==
''Note: Season 2 dates are rough guesses, at best. See [[Talk:Re-Imagined Series Timeline|Talk]] for detailed rationalle.''

===[[Scattered]]===
*'''Day 51 - Morning:''' A [[Cylon Basestar]] ambushes the fleet, which jumps to an emergency rendezvous point. ''Galactica'' jumps to wrong coordinates and is forced to backtrack. [[Battle of Kobol#Scattering of the Fleet|''Galactica'' holds off basestar]] and returns to bulk of the Fleet.

===[[Valley of Darkness]]===
*'''Day 51'''
* ''Galactica'' is partially disabled by a Cylon [[Virus|virus]] while a [[Cylon Centurion]] boarding party attempts to [[Battle of Kobol#Cylon Boarding|commandeer the ship]].

===[[Fragged]]===
*'''Day 51'''
* [[Crashdown]] is shot by [[Gaius Baltar]] on Kobol after threatening to shoot [[Cally]].

===[[Resistance]]===
*'''Day 52:''' Tigh interrogates Tyrol and imprisons him with ''Galactica'' Boomer.

*'''Day 54 - Morning:''' [[Cally]] blackmails Baltar into running his Cylon test on Tyrol. Baltar notes to Tigh that he should assume Roslin's duties; he invites Baltar to join her in the brig. ''[[Aturian]]'' stops refining Tylium in protest of Martial law. Apollo briefs pilots in the ready room. Dualla checks out his ass. On Caprica, Starbuck and Helo meet [[Samuel Anders]]'s [[Resistance (movement)|Resistance]].

*'''Day 54 - Afternoon:''' Tigh deploys troops to vessels refusing to supply ''Galactica''. The [[Gideon]] Massacre takes place. Roslin is chagrined. Apollo initiates his escape plan.

*'''Day 54 - Evening:''' Saul and Ellen Tigh argue and have sex. Baltar poisons Tyrol and interrogates Boomer. Starbuck and Helo arrive at the Resistance HQ with Anders.

*'''Day 55 - Morning:''' Apollo delivers briefing, orchestrates Roslin's escape. The deck gang begin construction of a new brig cell for [[Cylon agent|Cylon agents]].

*'''Day 55 - Afternoon:''' Apollo & co. disembark at the [[Cloud Nine]] and link up with [[Tom Zarek]]. Starbuck and Anders flirt.

*'''Day 55 - Evening:''' Commander Adama wakes up. Cally kills ''Galactica'' Boomer.

===[[The Farm]]===
*'''Day 58:''' - According to a [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)|deleted scene]], this episode takes place one week after "Fragged".

===[[Home, Part I]]===
*'''Day ?? - Morning:''' Kara Thrace's captured [[Cylon Heavy Raider|Heavy Raider]] jumps into orbit around Kobol. Tom Zarek attempts to have it shot down because it's not the same Raider that Thrace departed in. Thrace lands her Heavy Raider aboard the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' and is reunited with President Roslin and Lee Adama. Lee learns that in addtion to Karl Agathon, Thrace brought back the Caprican copy of Sharon Valerii, whereupon Lee pulls a gun on Sharon. After defusing the situation with words, Roslin orders Valerii thrown out the airlock, but relents and has her thrown into the brig instead, after hearing both Thrace and Agathon's protest. Commander Adama promotes Captain [[George Birch]] to be the new ''Galactica'' CAG.

*'''Day ?? - Afternoon:''' Commander Adama holds a press conference regarding the escape of President Roslin from his custody and the ensuing marshall law. Adama adjourns the press conference however when the questions become increasingly pointed.

*'''Day ??+1 - Morning:''' Cpt. Birch on his first mission as CAG is responsible for an accident that nearly kills [[Kat]]. Zarek and his trusted lieutenant [[Meier]] plot to overthrow Roslin and take command of the fleet.

*'''Day ??+1 - Afternoon:''' Cpt. Birch oversees his second flight mishap as CAG when two ships he's supposed to be guiding collide with one another during a routine refueling operation.

*'''Day ??+2 - Morning:''' Roslin's party, made up of Thrace, Cpt. Adama, Elosha, Zarek, Meier, Agathon, Boomer, two Zarek red-shirts, two Roslin red-shirts and Rolsin herself land on Kobol. Using Valerii as their guide they set out in search of the [[Tomb of Athena]].

*'''Day ??+2 - Afternoon:''' The party is ambushed by Cylon Centurions after Elosha accidently trips a "bouncing betty" land mine and it blows up in her face, killing her. The surviving party is saved when Valerii uses an RPG launcher to destroy the last remaining Centurion.

*'''Day ??+2 - Evening:''' Adama makes the decision to put the fleet back together after a long and heartfelt talk with [[Dee]].

===[[Home, Part II]]===
*'''Day 66-67:''' - [[Raptor 1]] lands on Kobol with [[William Adama]] and his contingent. [[Tomb of Athena]] found.
*'''Day 68-74:''' - Roslin reestablished as lawful President; martial law ends. Fleet reunification.

===[[Final Cut]]===
*'''Day ~75''' [[D'anna Biers]] produces a documentary aboard the Galactica about the "[[Gideon massacre]]". It is a generally positive documentary broadcast to the fleet. Unknown to the fleet, it is also surveillance by the Cylons into the status of the Colonial fleet.

===[[Flight of the Phoenix]]===
*'''Day 86''' - [[Cally]] is released from the brig; a welcome back party is thrown for her by the deck crew.
*'''Day ??''' - [[Great Cylon Turkey Shoot|''Galactica'' routs hundreds of Cylon fighters]] without a casualty while dispatching a [[Logic bomb]] from their ship computers. The [[Blackbird]] prototype stealth fighter is built by [[Chief Tyrol]] and a team of Galactica crewmembers. Lt. Thrace flies it on its first test flight, quickly proving its value as a stealth craft.

===[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]===
*'''c. Day 175''' - ''Galactica'' encounters battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. Admiral [[Helena Cain]] assumes fleet command.
*'''c. Day 175'''- [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] accidentally kills ''Pegasus'' Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne|Thorne]] and is arrested with [[Karl Agathon|Helo]].
*'''c. Day 175''' - A standoff between the two battlestars begins over the treatment of the arrested ''Galactica'' crew.

===[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]===
*'''Day ~175''' - The standoff between the two battlestars ends in an uneasy truce, and a tense summmit aboard Colonial One, after Lt. Thrace returns from an unauthorized surveilance mission to the Cylon fleet, where she gains critical evidence on a Cylon ship. Dr. Baltar is able to determine from [[Gina]] that this is the [[Resurrection Ship]] that cylons need to resurrect so far from the Cylon homeworld.

===[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]===
*'''Day ~177''' - The Battlestars Galactica and Pegasus together engage the Cylon fleet in the [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship]], where they achieve an overwhelming victory with relatively light casualties, destroying not only the Resurrection Ship, but at least one other Cylon base star. The Blackbird is destroyed in the battle, although Lee Adama manages to eject successfully. At least one Raptor is also lost in the battle. Admiral Cain is killed by Gina, after Baltar helps her escape captivity. He then proceeds to hide her in the fleet.

===[[Epiphanies]]===
*'''Day 189''' - President Roslin near death; orders death of Cylon fetus. A [[Demand Peace|Cylon peace movement]] begins to pose as a threat to [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]. The Cylon fetus is eventually spared, when Dr. Baltar determines how to use Cylon fetal stem cells to treat Roslin's cancer. Dr. Baltar smuggles the nuclear weapon that he was provided with for work on his Cylon detector to the Cylon peace movement aboard Cloud Nine.

===[[Black Market]]===
*'''Day ???''' - Commander Fisk is murdered aboard the Battlestar Pegasus. Lee Adama begins an investigation into the matter.
*'''Day ???''' - Lee Adama kills [[Phelan]], leader of the [[Black market (organization)|Black Market]] crime syndicate.
*'''Day ???''' - Lee Adama is debriefed on the entire incident regarding the murder of Fisk and the Black Market.

===[[Scar]]===
*'''Day ???''' - After 29 days in an asteroid field (putting us at Day 218 or later), the ''[[Majahual|Majahual's]]'' mining operation has produced enough raw materials for the construction of two new Viper squadrons using the fabrication facilities aboard the [[Pegasus (RDM)|Battlestar ''Pegasus'']]. Attacks on the operation continue by the ace Cylon raider known as [[Scar (Raider)|Scar]], making it the source of a heated competition between Lt. Katraine and Cpt. Thrace.

===[[Sacrifice]]===
*'''Day ???''' - Three men and a woman named [[Sesha Abinell]] lay siege to bar onboard [[Cloud 9]], taking the guests hostage, and sealing the area off from the rest of the ship. Abinell's husband was killed aboard the ''[[Greenleaf]]'' when the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] attacked it ten weeks ago, and she decides to exact vengeance. Lee Adama is wounded as a result of a failed rescue attempt by [[Kara Thrace]]

===[[The Captain's Hand]]===
*'''Day ???''' - At least one month after the events of "Sacrifice", [[Lee Adama]] has been promoted to Major and temporarily assigned to ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. ''Pegasus'' Commander [[Barry Garner]] dies during the [[Battle of the Binary Star System]]. Adama is promoted to Commander and given command of ''Pegasus''. Talk begins in the Fleet about the upcoming Presidential election. Roslin bans abortion, and Vice President Baltar announces his candidacy for president in the upcoming election.

===[[Downloaded]]===
*'''Day 270 (Zero Hour + 9 months)''' - [[Hera]] born.

==Future Events==
*'''<s>Day 86 + 1 month (c. Day 116):''' Roslin's maximum life expectancy as of Day 86 ([[Flight of the Phoenix]])</s>
*'''<s>Day 54 + 3 months (c. Day 144):''' [[Samuel Anders]]'s [[Resistance (movement)|Resistance]]'s anti-radiation med supply projected to run out ("[[Resistance]]").</s>
**Anders' group survives in "[[Downloaded]]", c. Day 270.
*<s>'''Day 12 + 7 Months (c. Day 222):''' Elections due for President of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] ([[Bastille Day]]).</s>
**As of "[[Downloaded]]", c. Day 270, the elections are near but have not yet arrived.
*'''<s>Day 50 + 6 Months (c. Day 230):''' Roslin's maximum life expectancy as of Day 50 ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).</s>
**Roslin promised to get the fleet to [[Earth]] before her death '''(c. Day 230)''' ([[Fragged]]).
*'''<s>Day 24 + 9 Months (c. Day 294):''' [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|"Caprica" Sharon Valerii]]'s daughter born. (see [[#Notes|Notes]] below)</s>
**[[Hera]], daughter of [[Helo]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|"Caprica" Sharon Valerii]] was born premature c. Day 270 ([[Downloaded]]).
*'''Day 36 + 3 years (c. Day 1131):''' Fleet runs out of [[tylium]] fuel that was resupplied from the Cylon asteroid mine; assuming that no other sources have been found before this date. ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])
*'''Day 260 (approx) + 18 years (c. Day 6,830)''' Time at which, if the [[Survivor count]] keeps up its current rate of decline and never increases, the human race will simply go extinct, according to Baltar's estimate in "[[The Captain's Hand]]".

== Notes ==

*The above day listings use a simplistic calendar system with 30 day months and no leap years. The colonial calendar may be more sophisticated.
*The date of Valerii and Agathon's child is speculated, assuming that the [[Cylon agent]]s share the same gestation period that humans do, and that the birth of their hybrid daughter is not [[Wikipedia:premature birth|premature]].

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:RDM]] [[Category:Colonial History|*]] [[Category:Behind the Scenes]]

Talk:Timeline (RDM)/Archive5

2006-02-25T04:05:40Z

Redwall: /* Untangling Season 2 */

Only twelve days between Caprica Boomer's conception and morning sickness? That put's it at the fourth week, which is pretty much before she notices she is late. Sounds like a possible plot hole. Perhaps the caprica segments were not at the same time as the main fleet episodes or Cylon physilology makes them super sensitive to morning sickness. --[[User:Shemnon|Shemnon]] 18:35, 28 Jul 2005 (EDT)

:In fact, the times used here are taken from the captions introducing the Caprica sections in each episode, so a discrepancy is not possible. I too find the interval implausibly short, but that's just how it is, I guess. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:18, 29 Jul 2005 (EDT)

:Roslin might not live to see Earth; although I don't have a recording of the episode, I thought she just said that she would "lead" them to Earth before her death. And since Roslin was responsible for finding the path to Earth (the starmaps in the Tomb of Athena) it might be argued that she's already 'led' them on the right path to Earth...[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 17:56, 27 August 2005 (EDT)

Re: Home, Part II: I realize that it's been difficult to firmly establish dates during this season, and anticipate that it will only get worse now that the main Kobol's Last Gleaming – Home arc is complete and the story resumes a more episodic feel. As a result, it would be helpful to justify any timeline estimates on the relevant episode's Notes section, as I have done for [[Resistance]] and [[The Farm]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:13, 27 August 2005 (EDT)

== Saul and Bill vs. The ''Evil'' Cylons ==

So wait... The Cylong War started when William Adama was, roughly, ten and Saul Tigh was being born? It then went on for about 10 years, thus ending shortly after Adama would have been able to be in the military (assuming both that he wouldn't lie about his age to get in and that the Colonial Fleet has similar age-restrictions to the US Army--both pure speculation) and when Tigh was 10ish. This is my understanding from reading the time-line. I've frankly not paid much attention to when they mention these things on-screen. However, if this is true, then how did the ten-year-old Tigh learn about Cylon boarding party tactics after the Armistice? I have the (perhaps mistaken) impression that both Tigh and Adama are veterans of the Cylon War, but this timeline doesn't seem to allow for that. What's going on here? Am I daft? This is entirely possible. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:03, 10 September 2005 (EDT)

== Untangling Season 2 ==

After their meticulous efforts at keeping track of the timeline during the first season, [[TPTB]] have apparently started slacking off this season. A clear timeline is an important resource, however, so let's start untangling things.

*'''Scattered''', '''Valley of Darkness''' and '''Fragged''' all clearly take place within the same 24-36 hours, on Day 51.

*'''Resistance''' takes place over two days, and begins on day 53 ''at the earliest''. Apollo asks Dualla how his father is doing "today", implying that it is at least the second time he has done so. His first chance would have been the morning of Day 52, putting the earliest possible date of this episode at Day 53.

:*Begins: Day 53
:*Ends: Day 54 (earliest possible)

:At the end of the episode, Roslin escapes and Bill Adama wakes up. In "The Farm", Gaeta states that Roslin's escape took place "last week". This is very vague, and means only that "The Farm" begins more than one day after "Resistance", or else Gaeta would have said "yesterday". In a [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/205/deleted2.html scene] cut from beginning of The Farm (during Roslin's arrival on ''[[Kimba Huta]]''), Roslin makes a stronger statement - that it's been an "entire week" since her escape from ''Galactica''. This allows us to constrain the date of this episode fairly well, by substracting a seven day period from the well established possible date range for The Farm:

:*Ends Day 55 (latest, if Tigh were in command for 11 days (the longest probable time period))
:*Ends Day 57 (latest, if Tigh were in command for 13 days (the longest possible time period))

:I thus consider Days 53-54 to be most likely range. This assumption is important, as "Flight of the Phoenix" must be calculated based on the day of Cally's arrest.

*'''The Farm''' begins with Adama resuming command. According to D'Anna Biers in "Final Cut", Tigh was in command for "over a week". I take this to mean 8-11 days, since if it had been 12 or more, she probably would have said "almost two weeks". That puts the beginning of this episode at day 59 (earliest) or day 62 (latest).

:*Begins: Day 59 (earliest) (Kobol's Last Gleaming Part I (Day 51) + 8 days)
:*Begins: Day 62 (latest probable) (+11 days)
:*Begins: Day 64 (latest possible) (+13 days)

:Roslin, as noted above, clarifies further in a cut scene, implying that this episode takes place exactly seven days after "Resistance". Working off of my estimate above, I therefore suggest that the most probable start date for this episode is Day 61, which puts Tigh in command for a 10 day period.

:This also means that Adama spent seven days between resuming consciousness and resuming command. Given the extent of his injuries, this is entirely plausible.

*'''Home, Part I''' begins immediately after the end of "The Farm".

*'''Final Cut''' takes place 10 days after the last Cylon contact. Since there were none since Valley of Darkness (Day 51), unless we count the Roslin Faction's skirmish on Kobol, and the episode clearly takes place much later than day 61, we must assume there has been a Cylon contact at some point ''after'' "Home, Part II", and that it's been more than ten days since then.

*'''Flight of the Phoenix''' features Cally's release from the brig. Since Bill Adama was being lenient when he sentenced her (in The Farm, some time after she would've been initially imprisoned), we may assume he granted her time served. If she killed Boomer on the evening of day 54, her first day in the brig would have been completed on the evening of day 55, her 30th on the evening of day 84. Her welcome-back party was probably that very night.
:*Begins: Day 84 (earliest, if "Resistance" ended on day 54)
:*Begins: Day 87 (latest possible, if Tigh was in command for 13 days, and thus Resistance ended on Day 57)
:As per "Resistance", we assume Day 84 here.

:The duration of the episode is difficult to determine. We can probably put an upper limit on it based on the progress of Roslin's disease in the following episodes, but in his podcast, RDM notes that the timeline was kept deliberately vague for dramatic purposes:
:<blockquote>The true timeline of how long it would really take Tyrol to actually build one of these things from scratch would probably be much - it would be weeks, realistically. But you'd rather tell the story in one package. You'd rather tell the story, hold the viewer in the moment of the scene, make them invest themselves in the effort and pay it off. And so you can fudge the timeline, you can kind of skate by it. There's no definitive statement in the episode of how long this is all taking. It's kept purposely vague. It's not - there's no, like, y'know, clock going on. No one's mentioning a passage of time really since he started working on the viper. You could probably find cryptic references here and there that might nail it down to a specific timeline - ''maybe''.</blockquote>
:*Although interpreting Moore's comments may not be wise, his notion that the Blackbird would take at least "weeks" to complete is probably plausible. Thus we can guess that the episode ends at ''the earliest'' 14 days later.
:*Ends: Day 98 (if "Resistance" ended on day 54)
:*Ends: Day 99 (if Tigh was in command for 11 days, and thus Resistance ended on Day 55)
:*Ends: Day 101 (if Tigh was in command for 13 days, and thus Resistance ended on Day 57)
:An upper limit on the end date of this episode is provided by the start of "Pegasus". When more information is available we will probably want to expand the date range as generously as possible, given the lengthy construction task in depicts.

*'''Pegasus''' is very difficult to date because of the trouble with the duration of "Flight of the Phoenix". All that can be said for certain is that, since Roslin is still on her feet, it can't ''possibly'' be more than 30 days after that episode begins, and ''probably'' no more than 20. Conceivably, "Pegasus" could have begun the very day "Flight of the Phoenix" ended, with the christening ceremony and Roslin's appearance on Galactica bookmarking the same visit. Otherwise, there were probably several days or more between her visits.
**This is a slightly difficult reading, if only because of Adama's line "Well, Madam President, you picked a hell of a day for a visit" - she didn't pick the day for her visit in "Flight of the Phoenix", the deck crew did.

*'''Resurrection Ship, Part I''' is explicitly stated to take place six months after the fall of the twelve colonies. This badly contradicts earlier information, and there is no plausible place to insert the missing two month period, since Roslin's prognosis is updated before Cally is released from the brig in "Flight of the Phoenix". The episode itself does not appear to span more than a day.

*'''Resurrection Ship, Part II''' resumes immediately from the end of Part I, and appears to span about two and a half days.
:In the episode "Epiphanies", which begins on day 189, Gaius Baltar notes that it has been "weeks" since he last saw his internal six. That puts her last appearance in this episode no later than day 175.

*'''Epiphanies''' should take place very near the end of the life span projected for Roslin in "Flight of the Phoenix". Hopefully more information will be available to date later episodes from that point, but if not, it's probably the last episode that will be dateable with any degree of certainty. For now, we can state that ''at the latest'', the episode ''begins'':
:*Begins: Day 114 (if "Resistance" ended on day 54)
:*Begins: Day 115 (if Tigh was in command for 11 days, and thus Resistance ended on Day 55)
:*Begins: Day 117 (if Tigh was in command for 13 days, and thus Resistance ended on Day 57)
:However, it now appears that Cain's "six month" statement will be adhered to in future episodes. [http://galactica.emedian.net/episode/2.13/imagepages/image13.html Promotional photographs] from the episode indicate that Boomer is showing visibly, which is more consistant with a five-month pregnancy than the three-month pregnancy accounted for above. (Boomer was impregnated between Day 24 and Day 36 in the first season.)
::Unless you go with the "Cylons have accelerated pregnancies" argument, which is admittedly something of a cop-out. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:09, 14 January 2006 (EST)
:The episode explicitly states that it takes place on Day 189 post-holocaust. The missing two months cannot be accounted for, and must be written off as a continuity error.

*In '''Black Market''', Fisk's assasination takes place "a matter of weeks" after Cain's. Phelan is killed two days later. Apollo's debriefing probably takes place the next day after that.

*Scar opens on Majahual's 29th day of mining operations. During this time period, the fleet has split up so that ''Galactica'' may guard mining operations while ''Pegasus'' shepherds the fleet and provides a less static target. The big question here is, could "Black Market" have taken place during this 29-day span?
**Evidence in favor: The distance from Admiral Adama's oversight would hvae afforded Jack Fisk ample opportunity to become embroiled with the Black Market.
**Evidence against: Both ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'' are both seen with the Fleet at the beginning of "Black Market". This means that either the fleet had yet to split up, ''Majahual'' had returned to the Fleet with ''Galactica'', or that ''Majahual'' had been left behind in the asteroid field, defenseless.
***Counterpoint: It may have been necessary for the mining ships involved in the project to offload ore at refinery ship ''Daru Mozu'' before returning to mining activities. In this case, ''Galactica'' could have been escorting a mining ship back to the fleet during "Black Market".
**Evidence against: In the midst of Scar's attacks during the mining operation, Lee Adama would have been a poor choice to lead the investigation into Fisk's murder, since his skills as CAG were in greater demand with the Viper squadrons.
:So, could "Epiphanies" have as well?
:*Evidence in favor: Thrace spends most of her time in "Epiphanies" onboard ''Galactica''. The mining operations give her an excuse to be on ''Galactica'' despite her nominal position as CAG of ''Pegasus''.
:*Evidence against: Roslin spent what were very nearly her last days in ''Galactica'''s infirmary. If ''Galactica'' had been in a combat situation at the time, this would not have been a good choice.

*Not much information is available to pin down the date of '''Sacrifice'''.

*'''The Captain's Hand''' gives us two clues as to its date:
**It has been "almost a month" since Lee Adama was wounded in "Sacrifice".
**Baltar's initial projection of the fleet's population trends took place "over seven months ago". This was ''before'' the arrival of ''Pegasus'', since he has to factor the crew of that ship in afterwards.
***Note that this quite explicitly contradicts information given on the date of the presidential election given throughout the first season (seven months from "Bastille Day", six moths from "Colonial Day") - clearly, the election should already have taken place by now.

*''Galactica''-Valerii's resurrection in '''Downloaded''' takes place ten weeks after her death in "Resistance", which was firmly dated to be absolutely no later than Day 57, and probably no later than Day 54, above. That would put "Downloaded" at around Day 124, which explicitly contradicts almost every other piece of timeline information provided since "Resurrection Ship, Part I".
**[[Hera]]'s birth apparently takes place nine months after the destruction of the twelve colonies, setting the date at roughly Day 270. This makes her birth about a month premature (Valerii was impregnated sometime between Day 24 and Day 36). This is at least in line with the post-"Resurrection Ship" timeline.
**Is it possible that the scenes on Cylon-ocupied Caprica and in The Fleet do not take place concurrently?
***Downloaded denotes both Caprica and Galactica as "present day".

'''Summary of Known Information:'''
*KLG, pt. II, Scattered, Valley of Darkness, Fragged - Day 51
*The Farm: Duration unknown. Begins 8-13 days after KLG, pt. II (probably no more than 11)
*Resistance: Covers 2 days. Ends 7 days before The Farm.
*Flight of the Phoenix: Duration is at least 14 days. Begins 30 days after Resistance.
*Resurrection Ship, Part II: Six's last appearance is at least 14 days before the beginning of "Epiphanies".
*Epiphanies: Should begin less than 30 days after Flight of the Phoenix.
*Epiphanies: Begins Day 189
*Black Market: Begins less than 60 days after Cain's assasination.
*The Captain's Hand: Less than 30 days after "Sacrifice".
*The Captain's Hand: Absolutely no more than 8 months since the arrival of ''Pegasus''.

''More to come.'' --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:39, 11 December 2005 (EST)

===How You Can Help===
I need thoughts on the following:
*How many days was Kara Thrace at the Farm on Caprica?
*How many days do both parts of "Home" span?

===Further cleanup===

Firstly, I'm thinking that "Epiphanies" will take place exactly 30 days after "Flight of the Phoenix" (getting it down to the wire, last possible moment to save Roslin, etc). However, I used to think "Flight of the Phoenix" happened on day 86, now it's been moved to day 89 (I don't understand the reasoning), and FotP's date is based on Cally's arrest at the end of "Resistance", however recently the deleted scenes revealed the "The Farm" takes place one week after "Fragged". I'm not adept enough at this to sort it all out, maybe someone else can. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 10:58, 10 December 2005 (EST)

:Which scene? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:33, 10 December 2005 (EST)

::During the Roslin halucination scene in "Resistance", I believe; she says that the Quorum has been unsure of whether to support her or not for "a week now". Granted, it was a dream sequence, but I think it accurately reflects what the tone of the episode was.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:07, 10 December 2005 (EST)

:::Oh, you meant The Farm, which wasn't a hallucination. That's helpful. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:01, 11 December 2005 (EST)

== 6 months? ==

I thought I heard "Is that what you two have been doing out here for the last '''six months'''?" (following by something about philosophical debates and not having that luxury in time of war) from Cain on Colonial One. 180 days is a lot, so I thought I would mention it instead of add it, since I might just have heard incorrectly. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 21:34, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:See [[Resurrection Ship, Part I#Analysis]]. Her comment cannot possibly be correct, but on the other hand, she was speaking in haste and might have been exagerating for dramatic effect. Pegasus and Resurrection Ship almost certainly take place three months and change since the attack. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:23, 7 January 2006 (EST)

Further, in "[[Final Cut]]" D'Anna Biers states that Col. Tigh was in command of Galactica for "over a week"--->which is from "Scattered" to "Resistance" (maybe "The Farm"). I'm going to be liberal with this and say that was 13 days at most (obviously, this is probably not this case). Theorizing here: We know that Col. Tigh took command on Day 51 (on screen Fact), and that may have been in "command" for at most 14 days-->Resistance takes place on Day 65ish. Cally is given 30 days in the brig, gets out in "Flight of the Phoenix" which begins on Day 85ish then. Now, RDM did say that "weeks" pass during Flight of the Phoenix, which we always interpretted as "at least two weeks". In the same episode, Roslin is told that she has one month (30 days), ''tops'', to live. "Pegasus" could have occured right after this. Anyway, "Epiphanies" now says that it takes place on Day 189? Okay, subtract 14 days for the two weeks Six was gone; that's 175. At LEAST two days pass during the Cain trilogy; so 173. --->When does "Flight of the Phoenix" end? That's the question. Well, subtract 30 from 173 and we get 143. You know, no matter how many ways I look at it, I'm suspecting they're trying to pull a full-blown '''retcon''' on us, because they're apparently saying that "Flight of the Phoenix" from beginning to end lasted '''two months'''. '''We know as stated fact that the Presidential elections are taking place on Day 222''' (give or take a week). So unless in an episode stated to take place 30 days from now, there is an election, this is just one of the biggest goofs we've ever had. Thoughts?--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:13, 21 January 2006 (EST)

:Yes, that's where it stands. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:37, 21 January 2006 (EST)

::Who says FOTP didn't take 2 months? They were building a frakking ship from scratch, after all. Granted, its the biggest leap we've seen in a single episode, but is there evidence to the contrary? --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 20:01, 21 January 2006 (EST)
:::Yes. Roslin gets her one-month prognosis ''before'' Cally's release from the brig, which we can firmly date. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:39, 21 January 2006 (EST)

::Also, remember that Laura was '''''starting''''' her education-related tour thingee 189 days before Ephiphanies. I am pretty sure that she was almost ENDING it during the miniseries. So, I think we can safely say that Ephiphanies is not happening on day 189, but rather, before it. Granted, its probably not more than a week or two, but that week could be what we're missing to make the timeline coherent. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 20:01, 21 January 2006 (EST)
:::In his podcast, Moore states the the flashback scenes were meant to take place in between Roslin's diagnosis and her departure for Galactica, which was all in the span of one day. He admits that the timeline has to be fudged a bit to get Baltar and Six on the scene, but it was a very short time span. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:39, 21 January 2006 (EST)

::Furthermore, however, I think that we're missing gaps that occur between episodes. For instance, is there evidence that KLG took place right after Colonial Day? We listed a one day gap, but what are we basing that on? There could be a week gap there and we wouldn't know it.
:::There is very firm evidence for all the first season dating, including Colonial Day and Kobol's Last Gleaming. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:39, 21 January 2006 (EST)

::I think we need to list the things we DO know (colonial day takes place on day 47, there is a 30 day gap between resistance and the beginning of FOTP, and Ephiphanies takes place in the 180 day range, etc.) and then rebuild the timeline from there, working in reasonable gaps. We are saying that there are continuity errors due to Ephiphanies, but I doubt RDM would make a blunder like that. We just think there is a continuity error because we've been speculating ao many dates and then taking them for fact. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 20:01, 21 January 2006 (EST)
:::I have been maintaining exactly such a list at the bottom of my lengthy discussion on the topic. I encourage you to read it fully. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:39, 21 January 2006 (EST)

:::Some might call this cavalier, but this is what I ''propose'' as what I would like: Firstly, we're going to bludgeon Ron D. Moore's blog with questions about this until we get an answer (even of the "so what? we made it up" variety, anything). You see, BMS, I feel that we '''should not restructure the timeline based on "Epiphanies"'''. We should point out in the Notes section of every following episode "This is so and so many days after "Epiphanies", however note that BattlestarWiki's timeline shows that it couldn't be this". This is either a major blunder, a retcon, or both. We're not basing it on "Colonial Day", we're basing it on "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II" which was the final day that we got a date on screen (Day 51). KLG part I begins immediately after Colonial Day as you see that Starbuck got drunk at the party then had sex with Baltar in the following episode (she has the same dress, etc). Simply;
:::*Kobol's Last Gleaming Part II through Valley of Darkness happen pretty much on the same day, Day 51.
:::*Colonel Tigh could not possibly have been in command of Galactica for a period of over two weeks. He was in command starting in "Scattered", until "Resistance", although possibly this could have extended until "The Farm".
:::*Cally is given a sentence of 30 days in the brig in "The Farm" for shooting Boomer in "Resistance". (we always assumed it mean 30 Days counting from when she was first arrested, not several days later when Adama sentenced her). She gets out in "Flight of the Phoenix".
:::*Roslin is told later in Flight of the Phoenix that she has no more than one month to live. That puts a MAXIMUM of 30 days between the END of Flight of the Phoenix and "Epiphanies". We do know that Flight of the Phoenix DOES span a time period of WEEKS, we always assumed this was at least two. Though I guess up to four would not be "unreasonable".
:::*Adding them up, 51+14+30 = 90. Flight of the Phoenix BEGINS at around at least Day 90 (although the SCENE with Roslin's diagnosis is after the scene when Cally gets out, I'm willing to fudge it and just say that scenes on different ships don't necessarily happen in order if they don't affect each other right away. Fair enough).---->Thus, "Epiphanies" could not take place any later than Day 120, which is FOUR months, not Six (to quote Picard, "THERE...ARE...**FOUR**..." MONTHS!). What are we supposed to believe, that Flight of the Phoenix lasted '''two months'''? I mean the biggest "official" gap between episodes was the 10 day gap between The Hand of God and Colonial Day.
:::*Another big, "dumb question" I have: If Pegasus-through-Epiphanies (within a few days of each other) is supposed to take place ''Six'' months after the Cylon attack, '''Why isn't Caprica-Boomer more visibly pregnant?!'''. Her daughter was conceived a month after the attack, which would make her ''Five months pregnant'' in "Pegasus". Yet in Pegasus, she's wearing a REALLY form fitting tank top in which she doesn't look noticeably pregnant at all. Anyone else baffled by this?--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 10:47, 22 January 2006 (EST)

::::Roslin's prognosis is updated very early in "Flight of the Phoenix", ''before'' Cally's release from the brig, so really it should be "a maximum of 30 days between the BEGINNING of Flight of the Phoenix" and "Epiphanies". As for Boomer, she looks about five months along in "Epiphanies", but certainly did not during the "Pegasus" trilogy. I think it's fairly obvious that we just have to write off the "lost" two months as a continuity glitch - there's certainly no use badgering RDM about it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:28, 22 January 2006 (EST)

::::Thanks, Peter. Thats what I really wanted to see, the dates that we know filled in with the dates we can speculate. It appears your right, there are 2 months missing. I didn't think that RDM would make such a huge blunder - If I were him, I would have written out all the dates George Lucas style - he had the entire Star Wars timeline from Anakin's birth to Luke's death planned out before he even released the first one back in 1977. I thought RDM, with his whole "naturalistic science fiction" crusade would have done the same. Way to frak it up, RDM. PS way to work in the Picard reference - great episode. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 15:33, 22 January 2006 (EST)
:::::No he didn't. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:30, 22 January 2006 (EST)
::::I just had another thought. Perhaps Roslins little tour lasted 2 months. If she was going to all 12 colonies, who knows? That might be the missing two months right there. Do we have a reference to the duration of that tour? --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 15:36, 22 January 2006 (EST)

:::::See RDM's podcast for his thoughts on the duration of the flashbacks. They were originally intended to all take place in between Roslin's diagnosis and her departure for ''Galactica'', all on the same day. Note that her suit matches the one she arrived on Galactica wearing. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:43, 22 January 2006 (EST)

::::::Oooh yeah... you're right. Well, I guess RDM's really frakked himself on this one. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 19:36, 22 January 2006 (EST)

::::Very good observations, and I think we should try to pressure RDM about this, if possible. He spouts so much rhetoric about keeping it believeable that we can't really let something like this slide. However, I don't know about using the FotP "1 month" diagnosis as the ''main'' point of continuity criticism. While it is true that Dr. Cottle has shown to be a very good doctor and his estimate is probably a well-informed one, it is still an ''estimate.'' This certainly wouldn't be the first time a patient lived longer than a doctor expected, and it won't be the last. Despite decades of collecting data, cancer is still not very well understood by Earth doctors, and it follows that since the Galactica world is almost identical to ours in terms of medical technology (by design), cancer is not all that well understood there either. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 15:37, 22 January 2006 (EST)
:::::No. In that episode he said he's be ''surprised'' if she lived a month. They were down to a few weeks. Jumping from that to saying "well she could have just lived two months and surprised everyone" is stretching it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:30, 22 January 2006 (EST)
By the way, please try to read the discussion thread more carefully. As much as I don't care for Ricimer regurgitating my easily accessible notes, I'd still rather not be erroneously credited for his posts. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:11, 22 January 2006 (EST)
:I'm as upset about this as you are. I was developing my own thoughts, "thinking out loud" as it were, not "regurgitating" what you said (similarities are due to the fact that they share the same source material). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:30, 22 January 2006 (EST)

:I think we're all basically on the same page here, so there's no need to argue over who came up with what originally. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 17:37, 22 January 2006 (EST)

::Come on now, this is supposed to be a *happy* occassion. Let's not ''bicker'' and ''argue'' about...who killed who...--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 17:55, 22 January 2006 (EST)

:::Yeah... we're all on the same page here. Perhaps we should add a note to the bottom of the timeline page about the missing two months? Right now, it jumps from day 86 to day 175 with no explanation. Well, I guess there IS no explanation, so we should add a note saying there is no explanation... if that makes sense. Also, sorry if I mixed up who said what, this page has become a little tough to follow. My apologies to Ricimer and Peter Farago. --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 19:47, 22 January 2006 (EST)

Speaking from experience, I have known two people (one relative, one relative of a close friend) with cancer who have been given the "surprised if you see out the month" speech from doctors only to survive 3 months and 18 months respectively. My point is that even the most experienced of doctors often have to make educated guesses and sometimes they don't get the figures quite right. Sometimes the cancer doesn't behave as expected or the progression through the body slows. Given what is shown of Roslyn from FOTP, Pegasus, Resurrection Ship to Epiphanies, I don't see a huge problem with her lasting the extra 60 or so days that the timeline suggests. --[[User:Rexpop|rexpop]] 1:56, 26 January 2006 (EST)

:Thank you for your insight. On reflection, this does seem to be a plausible way to reconcile the time discrepancy. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:44, 26 January 2006 (EST)

:Your personal insight does not add further weight to your viewpoint. I feel this violates the Citation crusade directly: unless they say directly on screen, in dialog, "wow, she lived longer than we thought", we should under no circumstances '''assume''' that she "just happened to live longer". Remember, this is a ''tv series'' where the writers are actually trying to inform they audience by stating facts on camera. This is not a historical research paper where we are trying to find out when a real person died, and we're confused that a doctor's diagnosis notes say she would live shorter than we've been led to believe. This is a tv series, and the writers were talking with us the audience in mind when they have Cottle on screen saying "you've got weeks, a month at the outside". Note, at the "outside" chance, as in "a maximum of one month". Thus, Rosl*I*n we must assume only had one month left. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:57, 26 January 2006 (EST)

::My only point is that of all the known information, Roslin's prognosis is the only thing that it is even ''possible'' to fudge. Whether or not one wishes to do so is a matter of personal interpretation. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:42, 26 January 2006 (EST)

==Duration of Home, Part I==

What's the basis for the recent dating for Home, Part I? I mean in terms of quotes or something I missed.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 17:16, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:I don't know. It would probably be best to consider it in three parts with The Farm and Home, Part II, since they all seem to pick up where the other leaves off. I've sort of held off on re-watching them longer than I should, since they aren't really my favorite episodes... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:00, 8 January 2006 (EST)
::If we just "assumed" 2 days had passed, etc without evidence I think it should be replaced with ?? marks. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:38, 8 January 2006 (EST)
:::I agree, if there's no evidence, but let's give Kahran a chance to respond. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:41, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Roslin's life expectancy after "Epiphanies" ==

Should we remove the "Roslin's maximum/minimum life expectancy" stat now that her cancer's been all but cured?
[[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 20:58, 21 January 2006 (EST)

:I'd rather not. We didn't remove her older life expectancy from "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I" when the estimate was revised downward in "Flight of the Phoenix". Both data points might still be of interest to someone who's following the continuity of the show. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:04, 21 January 2006 (EST)

==When is the Presidential Election?==

Okay, "Res Ship, part I" and "Epiphanies" established that we are now 6 months after the Cylon attack. (That's definately what they're *SAYING*, but I'm still saying how improbable it was and there must have been a lot of time passing in FotP).

Regardless, in "[[Scar]]" 29 days pass. Give a few as well for "Black Market" (do we know how many days pass in that?), and we'll call it an even "one month".

6 months + 1 month = 7 months. pollo stated in "Bastille Day" that they would hold elections in "seven months" when Roslin serves out President Adar's term. So what's going on? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 03:11, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:RDM says the election will take place at the end of the season. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:18, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Timing of Events of Black Market and later episodes==
The "matter of weeks" timing of Black Market after Epiphanies is thorny in terms of trying to figure out when it happens. I'm estimating 3 weeks, hence 21 days. If it was much longer, they could have said "a month" or "almost a month" or "more than a month", if it was shorter, it could be "just a week" or the like. It could be a little more either way, but I put dates in estimating that much time (and noted as approximate).
--Wingsandsword

:Seven weeks is still "a matter of weeks". All we can say about the "black market" comment is that it was definitely less than two months, since after that point it becomes "a matter of months". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:38, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:::No Wingsandsword. Here our standard is to leave it as ?? question marks, when such a large amount of time as ''one to two weeks'' is involve.d --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 03:39, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::::I don't see any policy to that effect anywhere here. I've just checked, it's nowhere in the tutorials, nowhere in the few policies listed, nowhere I can find. There is no style guide to this wiki making things like that standard that I can tell. It might be ''your'' personal standard, but I don't see any official opinion or policy declaration that approximate dates have a specific margin of error, that beyond "x" certainty it goes from an approximate date to a completely unknown one. An approximate date is a lot more useful than just "???". We don't know when, hence it is listed as "~" days. --[[User:Wingsandsword|Wingsandsword]] 13:39, 4 February 2006 (EST)

User talk:The Merovingian

2006-02-22T21:43:10Z

Redwall: /* Colonial arm patches and insignia */

''Why is a raven like a writing desk?''

== Regarding your RfA ==

Hi Ricimer, while your RfA did not pass, I firmly and wholeheartedly believe that you are fully capable of passing the RfA, should it come up again within, say, six months. If you have any concerns, feel free to address them with Peter, myself, or any of the other major contributors. Have a happy New Year! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 12:31, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:I have yet to play my trump card. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:32, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:: Should I be afraid? *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:21, 31 December 2005 (EST)

== Battle Template ==

You're the guy who came up with this, right? Do you think that a) the thing could be made into an actual template (like the Character Data one with dissappearing/reappearing fields, etc) and b) it could be re-designed to look like the Character Data one (in terms of looking like the rest of the theme (the red/black is the default theme, isn't it?)? I don't know how these two things would be accomplished, but I thought I'd put this out there and see what you thought as far as feasability and also as far as ''should'' we do it. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:00, 18 January 2006 (EST)

== User name change ==

Just letting you know that I changed your name from Ricimer to The Merovingian. Let me know if you encounter any issues, not that I'm expecting any but just in case Murphy's Law decides to come and play. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:19, 7 February 2006 (EST)

: Also on this topic: You should probably update the first sentence of your User page to reflect the name change. If you want, I could probably get a decent screen-grab of the identically named character from the Matrix. Unfortunately, I don't have a DVD from which to grab pictures that stars any of the folks who founded Paris. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:24, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Yes, actually, that would help immensly. I need one of The Merovingian when he's in Club Hel, standing at the balcony looking imperiously down at Neo. A shot that shows his whole body instead of a closeup would be preferred. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 02:13, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::You should watch "Revolutions" again. Merv isn't peering down at Neo but at Morpheus, Trinity, and Seraph (Neo never visits Club Hel in the movie series, although the Path of Neo video game takes him there while the Club is closed). I'll also try to get a screencap for you if time allows. My Matrix knowledge may be better than my BSG knowledge (note witty, illustrated user page; I've been almost tempted to change my user name to something more appropriate... ;) By the way, I like your revised user page. Merv is one of those characters whose deserved more exploration on the same level as the Oracle and the Architect. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:45, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:"Neo" just came out; I was thinking Seraph & Co., just typed the wrong thing. (''That little Judas! I'm going to have him killed and buried in a shallow grave, then dig him up and kill him again...'''That's the beauty of a shallow grave!''') ''--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:52, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::I actually took a philosphy class and my choice for a paper was on ''The Matrix''. Basically, I've made several of the more...insightful speculations about The Merovingian on his Wikipdia article. You see, Morpheus and Neo represent Socrates: wanting to get out of "The Cave" to the real world beyond, etc. However, I believe (and I'm the only person I know of who's thought of this; I didn't read it anywhere, but thought it up after reading ''Leviathan'') that The Merovingian is the embodiment of Thomas Hobbes in The Matrix. He spouts off Hobbesian thought all of the time. Hobbes said that "choice is an illusion" that the only constant is "cause and effect", and that the best thing we can do with our lives is kind of movie along with the flow of causality in such a way that we enjoy all of the *physical, transient* pleasures that we can, while we can. Live a life of comfornt and luxury, etc. The Merovingian *lives out* this ideal: He's living in complete luxury, like at Le Vrai, the Chateau, Club Hel (and he has affairds with women all the time, etc), he wields a great deal of physical power...yet recognizes that it's all just "a game" devoid of purpose; it's transient, etc. He's stopped seeing any higher meaning in anything. --->Hobbes was a big critic of Socrates, and his philosophy was the polar opposte of Socrates' thought. In the same way, The Merovingian opposes Neo and Morpheus' philoshpy of getting out of the Matrix.
:I hold with the theory that he's a former One, that got his brain pattern scanned into a computer to outlive the death of his body. But he got so disillusioned with all of the lies and how the quest for freedom was just a reset button, that he turned against all of this and became the master of the Exiles, living the complete opposite of all of this (note; he ''really hates'' the Oracle, and views everything Neo says about her with extreme sarcasm). Plus, the initials "LV" on the walls of "Le Vrai" are Roman numerals for "LV" = 55. Now, we've already seen 303= Trinity, 101= Neo. So there's something about The Merovingian and the number "5". On top of this, when we first meet him there are 5 glasses set out in front of him (and Persephone, his Trinity-analog, has 3 chocolates on her plate). --->There have been 5 "Ones" before Neo. I think the Merovingian is the ''first'' "One". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 17:01, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::Yeah, that theory and his Hobbes relationship (I think--it may be in a book I read) is on the Wikipedia article. I edited the article in dispute of Merv being a past One. It all comes down to some logic points. ''Why'' does he hate the Oracle so much? Because she succeeded where he failed. She stabilized the Matrix by adding true choice, where Merv was likely tapped by the Architect earlier to program basic cause-effect subroutines in the Matrix code as well as manage the root-programs in Matrix-beta-2 that could be used to help with these changes (these programs he now holds for his own purposes). The Architect realized the utopian flaw in beta-1 and thought that simple cause-effect (combined with the root-programs--the monsters of myth) would be sufficient to convince the human minds. He was wrong, of course. Remember that the Merovingian is big on cause-effect, and the Oracle states that he is one the oldest of them all, which makes his human origin very unlikely as the machines by then were fully distrustful of humanity and saw itself as a steward, not bothering to hear out humanity anymore than we would listen to the needs of an ant. The One is purely human; if the Merovingian were a "One", he would have been generated within beta-2, and, as a result, would not be like the Ones that base their power from true choice (particularly the power to ''dis''believe what they see and act otherwise). To add to that: Merv could also be very mad at the Oracle because, in the Oracle's version of the Matrix, any powers he may have had in beta-2 are practically non-existent. (You gave me a new take the character now from that...hmm.) Oh, and "La Vrai" means, "The Truth", which is just Merv's way of protesting of what's around him..vulgarities of "choice". Only in his establishments, by the name implication, will the populace understand the "truth" about what is illusion to him (choice) and real (cause and effect).

:::I wrote a paper about the origin of the One (with a bit on Merv) for a SF convention that will BLOW. YOUR. MIND. If you like, I'd be happy to send you a PDF of it. I've not published this as yet, so it's a unique read that incorporates the above. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::::I would like to BLOW. MY. MIND. as well... ''the preceeding, signed comment and small recommendation that Spence forward me a copy of his insightful paper on Merv was made by [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] on 17:47, 8 February 2006 (EST) :-)''

::::: Actually, Spence... Could you just, maybe, copy it to User:Spencerian/Matrix or something? It might save you from forwarding it to a billion people. If you don't like that idea, then put me on your forwarding list. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:19, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:There, I must disagree with you. The Merovingian is not "the oldest of us" but "one of the oldest of us", which would still fit my interpretation. Further, in ''Leviathan'' Hobbes goes on a tangent where he says that because everything in life is "cause and effect", logically, we should '''in theory''' be able to predict the future, because life has no external factors (god, random choice, etc. Fate/causality rules all). But he adds that '''in practice''', this is impossible, simply because there are so many variants that the human mind cannot grasp at once--->it reminds me of discussions of ''psychohistory'' in "Prelude to Foundation"; hen Hari Seldon originally presented his first paper theorizing that psychohistory was ''possible'', he explained that he did not yet have a working model because his paper essentially just proved that you could actually analyze all of the "antecedants" of life in a computer model. I.e. if the universe is so compex that the only functional "model" of it is something as big and complicated as the universe itself, such a model is useless. However, he said that you ''could'' actually make a model smaller than the universe itself..
::Well, the point is that according to The Merovingian's own Hobbesian principles, he is in a possition SIMULTANEOUSLY A) He believes the world to be governed by nothing but causality, and therefore, he should be able to predict the future, but B) THE VERY SAME principles that idea is based on also state that predicting the future is ''Practically'' impossible. This might get a little annoying to him. --->So then there's The Oracle, who CAN predict the future, while he cannot (though in theory, he should). Therefore, this adds another level of hate for her, and he wants the "eyes of the Oracle" (which he's "Wanted ever since I came ''here'') because he's jealous. And who's to say the Machines would not want to tap the talen of the "grotesque" human mind in designing/running a more human world (beta-2)? I digress. P.S. Don't get me started on MXO's Agent Pace...--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 18:13, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::Yes, Merv is one of the oldest, not the oldest. Merv was only half-right, which is why his Matrix worked only halfway. Predicting the future is not impossible if the events in the world ''work like a computer program does.'' He wanted to predict things logically--but, with choice involved, prediction becomes far less logical or predictable. When people in his Matrix version realized they, too, could guess the logical cause and effect, they lost believablity in their Matrix. The Oracle's Matrix has no such problem for the most part. Hey, you haven't an email address to send you my paper (Joe just got a copy). You can send me your address privately to my email if you care not to post it publicly. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:57, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::: '''Tangent''': I once tried to start up a Matrix-themed MUSH which was to be placed in an unspecified previous iteration of the Matrix, only a few years after the death of the One that started the thing. We had some lengthy debates about how to implement the Oracle or make any sort of assertions that would A) be specific enough so as to be cool when they came true but, b) be vague enough so as to be possible in a roleplaying environment that included, well, ''choice''. Eventually, though, all the staffers got busy doing [http://www.guildwars.com other] [[Main Page|things]]. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:19, 9 February 2006 (EST)

: Merovingian, eh? I must say I like it, much preferable to Ricimer - and I'm not a troll. [[User:Jzanjani|Jzanjani]] 02:33, 21 February 2006 (EST)

::Prove it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:02, 21 February 2006 (EST)

==A ''Revelation'' I've Had==

[AgentSmith]Let me share a ''revelation'' I've had [/Agentsmith]. In case you are new, most here are of the consensus that my attitude towards edits is overall blunt/brusk, not "polite", etc. (it's just letters on a screen, so I just never gauged "politeness" much; not that I make personal attacks, just that I "cut through it" and say what I'm thinkin'). Anyway, '''Day''' summarized some of this pretty well on Talk:Perry when he said just now: "''your jumping off the cuff with aggressive language at people who simply disagree with you. It may be a matter that would be handled by inflection, were you interacting in real life, but you should realize that when you're dealing with text only, you have only very gross control over inflection: normal, bold and italics. And they can be construed as meaning many things. As a side note, I've noticed you like to use bold and such a lot and so, sometimes, you do combinations or all-caps or asterisks for further emphasis. I mean this in only an entirely constructive way, but... I have no idea how to interpret those passages except as very loud, so they're more confuysing to me, personally, than helpful.''". Well, I think I've '''finally realized what the crux of the problem was:'''

Loss of essence. A profound sense of fatiuge, a feeling of emptiness...caused by terrorists trying to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids, through water fluoridation. It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core terrorist works. He hold no value for human life, not even his own. Well, I can no longer sit back and allow terrorist infiltration, terrorist indoctrination, terrorist subversion and the international terrorist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.--->Hahaha, sorry. I can never resist a good plug for the old ''Dr. Strangelove'' routine.

But I digress.

No, seriously. I finally realized what the crux of all of this friction has been: As you know, I am a prolific poster on the official messageboard. '''I think the problem is, I've been posting on BattlestarWiki as if it were a messageboard'''. You see, messageboards aren't as formal and a lot of, well, yelling, arguing as part of debate, etc., is actually ''the norm'' there. Further, when it comes to '''my''' ''overuse'' of ''' ''**inflection**'' '''....I'm just *used* to typing that way because that's how you highlight and emphasize stuff on messageboard posts (it's sort of how you make up for not being able to see visible social cues, etc.) Also--->Posts on messageboards can sometimes fill an entire Microsoft word single-spaced document page. They can get really long. So you've really got to highlight the beginning of every new idea or paragraph like that to make your point, etc.

But on the whole, it's just a different atmosphere, more "pack-mentality" to establish dominance through a show of force (GREAT Farscape joke about that one in the first episode of the fourth season...but I digress.), and a fanatical amount of information, etc.

I realize it took me a while, but I've finally come to the full realization that '''My Talk page posts, etc. seem kind of rough because I'm just typing like these are messageboard posts'''. (Messageboard posts disappared practially after 5 minutes, so you try to have as big an impact as possible, while here they just stay there for long periods, etc.)

So, I've realized that that's what's been going on, and I realize now (from experience) just how different a wiki is from that, so I will alter my tone accordingly. (Of course, I'll still '''highlight''' stuff that might seem important, but not go overboard). --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:36, 10 February 2006 (EST)

:Excellent! That's an angle I hadn't considered. The signal to noise ratio is definitely much higher here than at some other places. Heck, the fact that people were still discussing a question I asked around the first of December is an excellent demonstration between the way things happen around here and the official board. I hope you have begun to see that the people here value what you have to say/contribute (without the need to clamor to be heard above the din). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:30, 10 February 2006 (EST)

:: That may be a very apt metaphor, SV. Reading Merv's posts is sometimes like listening to someone who thinks your in the other room, but really you're right behind them. Roughly, "Hey. I'm already ''listening'', '''Dude'''." *wink* Anyway, I hope this is exactly the issue at, uh... issue, here. --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:24, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== Recent Rollback ==

Hey. I rolled back your last edit on [[Louanne Katraine]] because we don't use quotes with single episode citations enclosed in parentheses. So, if I wrote an episode name when discussing an episode in this sentence that talks about, say, "[[Scar]]", it doesn't look like a citation like this ([[Scar]]). For consistancy we do quotes within parentheses in a string of episodes cited, with the exception of the Miniseries name, which is not an episode name per se ([[Miniseries]], "[[Scattered]]", "[[Fragged]]"). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:19, 10 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes, thank you. I was confused on this. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 17:22, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== Template Categories ==
What are you looking for for the writers and directors? A navigation template? Or a category (I ran into [[:Category:Directors]] after I created one)? I'd be glad to help, I just don't have a concept of what you're needing. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:19, 10 February 2006 (EST)

When I write pages about Sharon, Number Six, etc. I write at the bootom "Category:Cylons" (with double brackets around it). I think we need a Category set for "Writers" and "Directors" (in place of "Cylons"). However, one or two episodes split the "Writers" credit between "Teleplay" and "Story by" (see official site episode guide). I just put "Story by" into "Story by" slots in the guide, and Writer for who wrote the Teleplay: Regardless, I think both Teleplay and Story writers should fall under the "Writers" category, and I will make note of which was which on their individual pages.
----->Essentially, I realized we had no "At a Glance" method of seeing the past work of a writer or director. Essentially, I see that episode 3.12 is coming up, and I see "hmm, who is this? why, I'll click on his name and get a list of other episodes he's done.....oh no! He wrote the abysmal "Black Market"!...or..."Hmm, she wrote the wonderful "Resistance"...this should be interesting. I'm trying to make A) pages for all of the writers and directors, and B) lists on those individual pages of all the episodes they've worked on, so, logically--->C)We should have a more fully developed category system for "Writers" and "Diretors" (the rudiments of which are present on the main page, but which were never fully developed. I felt that now is a good a time as any.)--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 20:33, 10 February 2006 (EST)
:There's a directors category already, and a Category:Director: Michael Rymer, which is a subcategory of Michael Rymer. Thus if you tag an episode with Category:Director: Michael Rymer it should fall under the Michael Rymer category. The directors category would then just be a container for all those subcategories. So we just need a Category:Director: X where X is each director (and make sure that each of those has the category of Director, so that they show up as subcategories). We could then make a template, I guess, but since we're talking about just having to add one category tag at the bottom, I'm not sure it merits a template. I'll start up the Category:Writers, if you want, if you could list out which Directors and Writers we need to capture. We may want to consult with Farago on this, as he has a knack for categorization. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:44, 10 February 2006 (EST)
::Ah. There's already a Category:Writers as well. Looks like somebody planned ahead. It looks like we'd just need to make the subcategories then. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:47, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== Rollback ==

I rolled back your last edit on the Binary Star System article. "Battlestar" is not capitalized unless at the start of a sentence or when used in the show's name. The article referenced is [[Mercury class battlestar]] as shown and needed no capitalization. "Axis" to "column" (or spire) adds little to the edit, but it's a matter of taste there. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:15, 19 February 2006 (EST)

==Just to say==
Merv, I just wanted to say that I think you've been putting an excellent face forward recently. Keep it up. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:23, 19 February 2006 (EST)

''All is proceeding according to plan..''--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:07, 19 February 2006 (EST)

== Colonial arm patches and insignia ==

No offence, but call yourself a Battlestar Galactica fan?
Some Merovingian you are! you are an insult to both the name and the entire series of both past and present series of "Battlestar".
If you want to recognise these images in my document, which took me the better part of my morning (and life):
1)Watch the entirerity of Battlestar Galactica(1978) and Battlestar Galactica(2003) for all of said patches on the uniforms.
2)LOOK on EBAY! If they are so wrong, why are they selling them? They are free pictures from a public site of official merchandise! The rank structure is off this site!
I've been watching Battlestar Galactica since I could crawl when it was first aired!! You're just envious that I have done this amount of research in such a small space of time and used little devices called brain cells.
My advice, before you engage your keyboard, open your eyes and watch the damn program(s)! Only one person has left neutral feedback and spotted things even I missed!! Fair play to him.
Question) Why go to such lengths to put true fans of the program down?
Answer) Envy. --[[User:Jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]]

:I suggest you reconsider your statements with a calmer head, and learn that, as "Merv" has, politeness goes a long way. Also, never assume malevolence when incompetence remains a possibility. ;) --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 16:47, 20 February 2006 (EST)

Thank you, Redwall, for defending me. There are several things you need pointed out which I believe your are unaware of Jetstorm316:

:'''1) I am not the person that deleted all of the images which you added to "Colonial arm patches and insignia"; that was Administrator SteelViper, who did so on February 20th, at 14:23.''' Please check the History page to confirm this, if you must.

:'''2) All I ever edited that you posted was on the [[Uniform]] page, and all I did was remove links to "Colonial arm patches"''', when it became apparent that
::A) SteelViper had already deleted most of the images from this page.
::B) As you can see now, Administrator Spencerian has already marked that page for deletion. '''All I have actually done is remove links to a page about to be deleted. I am not the one that deleted your images, or that is attempting to delete that page'''.
::C) There were also some minor factual corrections to "Uniform"; First: No, black arm bands are not worn only by "military police"; all Marines seen wearing the khaki uniform have black armbands. Does this mean they're Marines or Non-Coms? I don't know. Seemed a minor point. Second, despite your..."amount of research", it is false to say that "there is a grey arm patch on the left shoulder"; in fact, it is grey ''shoulder patches'' which I was referring to, not a single armpatch; I have since edited the article to be more specific

::'''''(Only because I pointed it out in the first Place "Dick Tracy" - Jetstorn316).'''''
:::Not really. I call those different colored patches "arm patches" because they're at the top of their arms; apparently you thought I was referring to a shoulder insignia, so I changed it to "shoulder patch" so you would not make this mistake in the future. You did not "point out" anything; "grey arm patch on left shoulder" (not both) is simply wrong. You didn't really....point out, much of anything.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 08:57, 21 February 2006 (EST)

:'''3)''' Your only real complaint against me is that I corrected the "Uniform" page: '''Your claims to having paid close attention to Original Series BSG are actually irrelevant in this matter, because the "[[Uniform]]" page deals entirely with Re-Imagined Series material.'''

So please, if you have a complaint about your images being deleted, please bring it to Administrator SteelViper, who deleted them.

I would hasten to point out that '''E-Bay should not be considered a reliable source of information, to put it mildly'''. One of your patches for Re-Imagined Pegasus was blatantly wrong, as it stated "BSG 63" instead of "BSG 62": "''My advice, before you engage your keyboard, open your eyes and watch the...program''". I think more of these problems might exist in the other images. Please provide reliable sources for them, following the rules of our [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|Battlestar Wiki Citation Crusade]]. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 20:12, 20 February 2006 (EST)

: I concur, Merv. eBay is not a source sanctioned by the [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|Citation Jihad]]. Just because something is sold there does not mean it is factual. Look at all the obviously wrong STar Trek stuff that sells on there. Or all the random, literally, ''trash'' that sells. Jetstorm, if you're reading this, we ''greatly'' prefer to use stills from the actual episodes for images when we can. If not, then we're much more likely to want drawn (whether by hand or electronically) images, rather than photos of fan-created props. What we would risk losing in accuracy from such fan-created works (artwork or, for instance, sewing) we'd gain in the ability to change some .psd on a regualr user's HD. It is quite bad form to flip out at someone for changing your edit to a page. It is ''quite'' bad form to do so at the wrong person. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:05, 21 February 2006 (EST)

And which....program were you watching? Matrix or BSG? Did you pick the wrong one up from Blockbusters?

Yes, I Conceed the "BSG 62 point", as at the time of manufacture (look, research!), the manufacturer was under the assumption that it was "BSG 63". Small error, but what can we do? I do not claim to be perfect, nor assume I'm right. I've always got something new to learn.

:"What you can do" is pay attention. You just made a long tirade, berating me because you felt YOU paid "much more attention" to the series, when in fact actually watching the episodes, but more to the point, BOTHERING TO USE BATTLESTARWIKI's PEGASUS ARTICLE, would have alerted you do this error. Define "irony".--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 09:00, 21 February 2006 (EST)

Steelviper did contact me in regards to the images, and at the time I had trouble previewing them even though I uploaded them first, that is why there were duplicates. Clerical error. But at least he was man enough to tell me, via email!

:You do not understand how this works: according to our Standards and Conventions, the official way we alert each other of these problems is by posting on BattlestarWiki talk pages, not outside e-mail. Perhaps you are referring to the fact that SteelViper left a message on your own Talk page; this isn't called "e-mail". Moreover, '''I also left a message there''', which included a link to the discussion on THIS page; it is considered rude/redundant to just repeat the same discussion on two sets of Talk pages; instead, it is best to leave links to the primary discussion from the other Talk pages, etc. etc. which is exactly what I did.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 09:03, 21 February 2006 (EST)

But you are wrong on the rest of the discussion, "MERV".

Military Police or security personnel ARE the only people who wear black armbands. Starbuck, Cally, Dualla nor Tyrol wear one!
It is my guess that this is to seperate crew from Millitary law personnel in times of incursion or juditial period. The Khaki may be a universal uniform(off duty, planet ops, ect). Non-Coms and recriuts are the main users for this "Dress" code.
Marines wear Black Combat Gear and Black body webbing/armour.

:Again, no; we know very little about Marines, and we don't actually know any of this; as far as we can tell, ALL marines that don't wear Battle Dress Uniforms (Black Combat Gear, capitalized, is not a real term) also have the armband. Either way, it is the subject of much debate, and we haven't actually been able to conclusively figure this out because they feature the Marines so rarely. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 09:07, 21 February 2006 (EST)

Obviously, I'm dealing with an American intelect with very little Military knowledge. No wonder you lost Veitnam!

Ebay IS a good source, it's just a shame you never thought of it. Its just a matter of where to look. Film footage, in this case, is unreliable, as most of the images are blurred. In reference to your member [[User:Day|Day]], It's official merchandise otherwise EBAY would retract ALL sales of said merchance due to legalities. "DUH!"

:Um....No. Ebay is not a good source; they can sell anything, usually fan made stuff. It is not our policy to use it, plus it wouldn't make sense to use it. If film is blurred...we get a ''sharper image''. No, it is not simply "official merchandise"; besides, the cheap plastic Star Trek pins and insignia you see sold all the time on these are often quite wrong. They're just churning out stuff for us to buy, without regard to accuracy.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 09:11, 21 February 2006 (EST)

[[User:Redwall|Redwall]], "Merv" is cocky and rushes headlong into matters that don't concern him. A tactical ploy which doesn't work with me. I've beaten guys like this before, and won! Politeness is something you EARN! In case you haven't noticed, Merovingian is another name for "Librarian". I added the links as a follow up segment, to show what he is describing.

'''Rush in? ''You'' Rushed to my Talk page to accuse me of making image deletions which I in fact did not, and made quite a long tirade about it without checking the facts first, which would reveal that I am not the person that did it. Since ''when'' is responding to a personal attack posted ON MY OWN TALK PAGE considered "matters that don't concern me"?'''--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 09:13, 21 February 2006 (EST)

"Merv" or should I say '''"Dick Tracy"''', the whole point of the article, is to show the difference between TOS and the Reimagined series. Go ahead, deleate the article, but did you not stop think that I wouldn't back it up on my HD? "Something that is lost can be replaced" is what my old C.O. used to say. This article is no exception. If you are "All-knowing" why didn't y'all see this coming? Unless you plan on breaking into my house (Unlikely), and destroying said articles and images, there's not a fat lot of good you can do!

:...you're really not paying attention. '''For the third time, *I* am not the person that was trying to delete these images, though I supported their deletion after the fact.''' You think we're like, trying to destroy these images at all points in time and space? Of course images still exist on E-bay and stuff. We can just delete it every time you try to add it into BattlestarWiki; and if you do so repeatedly in the face of deletion, such actions will be met with stern measures by the Administrators.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 09:16, 21 February 2006 (EST)

Tell you what, Ban me from this site for all I care! You sound like you spend too much time in your basement worriing about fact than what is wrong.

::"[[Wikipedia:Truthiness|Truthiness]]" --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 09:18, 21 February 2006 (EST)

True fans don't worry about this, just hope it makes good TV. If we did, the current "Pegasus" would(or should) have died at "Battle of the Resurrection Ship".

Take this "Site", bend over and shove it! I'll start my own, you dumb yank!

PS Never use the word "Jihad", you never know who is watching!--[[User:Jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]], 21 Febuary 2006.

:Oh I will gladly have you banned; you contributed nothing of value, and have proven to be quite an irresponsible user. I will make sure your request is granted. '''I may be a cruel man, but I am a fair one.''' --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 09:19, 21 February 2006 (EST)

: We've debated the use of the term Jihad already, Jetstorm. We expect people to be watching. If you would follow the above-linked project page to it's Talk, you can see that discussion for your self. I don't feel the need to repeat it here. I don't feel that anything else that's been said since I last posted in this deserves a direct response, so that's all I'll say. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:51, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Jetstorm, for the love of the Gods, if you want to survive here much longer, I suggest you ''shut the fuck up right now.'' --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 08:03, 22 February 2006 (EST)

:Please, Redwall. This will solve nothing. Jetstorm does seem more willing to mellow out, now.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 08:33, 22 February 2006 (EST)
::Thank you, Merv. But a Note to Redwall, "Bully boy Tactics" have no effect on me, just makes me stronger! Myself and Merv have settled our "debate" in an honourable way, with much information shared, so we can both learn and grow, to co-exist as it were. I went for a brisk walk to sort myself out. I do regret things were said in the heat of battle and it proved noone really won anything. It made us look like school kids squabbling in a playground over nothing. Regretable, wouldn't you say?--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
::I wasn't trying to be a bully, I was trying to save you from destroying yourself. Your rapid descent appeared to neccessitate drastic action. Just remember that arguing on the Internet is a lot like participating in the Special Olympics: even if you win, you're still an idiot. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 16:43, 22 February 2006 (EST)

== Talk page uniform ==

please refer to the talk page for uniform, sections Dress Uniform RDM and Counterpoints. I do belive you'll find something of valuable notice.--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

User talk:The Merovingian

2006-02-22T13:03:42Z

Redwall: /* Colonial arm patches and insignia */

Talk:Battle of the Binary Star System/Archive 1

2006-02-22T00:40:04Z

Redwall:

Based on the white board at the end of the episode, there were only five deaths total for the entire episode (both Raptor crews and Garner). It's possible that just means there were a lot of injured personnel, and is good news considering the entire Pegasus could have been lost. --Ltcrashdown 08:48, 18 February 2006 (EST)

:Particularly since ''Galactica'' lost some 85 crew when hit with a single nuke, while ''Pegasus'' took three. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:36, 18 February 2006 (EST)

: The real number we'll have to examine is the next episode. For all we know, the casualties (deaths) could still be in the process of counting, since during the chaos of a battle (especially one as heated), there is no way for certain to keep an accurate count. It's best done in the hours (perhaps day) afterwards, when a thorough head count, or assessment, can be done. But yes, it does look optimistic, doesn't it? -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:42, 18 February 2006 (EST)

:Consider that A) Galactica has had much of it's armor stripped B) Pegasus is more advanced C) Galactica lost 85 people but not directly because of the nukes; remember, there was a fire that they didn't want to get to the fuel lines (blowing up the whole ship) so Col. Tigh vented the atmosphere. I think it reasonable that Pegasus could have just been "lucky" and managed to get most of the people out of damaged areas before they got vented to space; again, it wasn't the nukes that actually killed that many people. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 15:07, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Looking at the episode(and the photo)I would think that baseship is either crippled or destroyed. I know Hoshi said that the baseship was moving off but, that was before PEGASUS fired her final salvo. Any thoughts?--[[User:Quig|Quig]] 17:44, 21 February 2006 (EST)
: Given the evidence we have, I think "heavily damaged" suffices. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 19:40, 21 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Laura Roslin/Archive 1

2006-02-22T00:35:26Z

Redwall: /* Homeworld */

==Source for SkyOne?==
Where does this "SkyOne" information come from anyway? I've tried the SkyOne website and can't find any of these "SkyOne" information things for Roslin, Starbuck, Baltar, etc. Does anyone actually have a LINK to any of these things? I'm confused. If there's no links, we may have to delete these. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:12, 23 January 2006 (EST)

:I generally concur with this. Like the unverified Zoic-sourced info on "other" battlestars in RDM, this source needs to be linked per the [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad]] or be deleted. Such information also appears on [[Kara Thrace]] and the [[Lee Adama]] articles. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:15, 23 January 2006 (EST)

::And also Sharon. Troyian seems to have been a busy little beaver. I mean, I understand when people read articles in magaines that aren't online, etc., but if this SkyOne thing has a website, why has no one ever provided a link to ANY of this information? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:26, 23 January 2006 (EST)

:::This is my fault. I found the SkyOne information on "[http://community.livejournal.com/thesecretcylon/ The Secret Cylon]" Livejournal community, in a pair of posts dated October 24th, 2005 – [http://community.livejournal.com/thesecretcylon/13190.html Part 1], [http://community.livejournal.com/thesecretcylon/13550.html Part 2]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:06, 23 January 2006 (EST)

*Apparently the information was originally on the SkyOne site, but at some point it was removed for some reason. Luckily some fans wrote all the information on the characters down, so it was saved. -- [[User:Troyian|Troyian]] 23:29, 23 January 2006 (EST)

: "Apparentky" according to who? I mean--maybe, rather than saving this information from web page editors, they just made it up and ''said'' they were saving it. Or maybe the reason it was removed is because it will be shown on screen later to be wrong. Or something like that. Anyway... Just thought I'd point out how little we really know about the source of this. Of course, all of my post is moot if one of us actually read it on the SkyOne web site before it was taken down. --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:20, 24 January 2006 (EST)

==Succession Boxes==
What's up with the succession templates towards the bottom of this one? Are those templates to be? They're currently busted... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:30, 31 January 2006 (EST)
: Looking at the history, it appears Ricimer put them there yesterday. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 15:36, 31 January 2006 (EST)

::History? Oh. THAT's what that button is for. (Actually, I just suggested another user look at the history on Lorne Greene, so my [[Radiological Alarm|hypocrite alarm]] just went off. My bad.) Oh, Joe... Did you get my email? Pia (of battlestarfanclub.de) responded, and I forwarded it to you. It sounds encouraging. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:40, 31 January 2006 (EST)

I put them in after seeing them on Roslin's Wikipedia article. I have no idea why they aren't working here. Can someone please try to get them to work? If not, delete it if we can't fix it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 17:52, 31 January 2006 (EST)

:The wikipedia version has the benefit of all the breadth and depth of the countless Wikipedia:Templates at its disposal. I've started playing with creating equivalent templates, but the conditional templates appear to be acting a little funny. Since there's unlikely to be a huge string of presidents, it might be worthwhile to just manually create wikiboxes at the bottom that LOOK like the succession box, and copy and paste should the need arise to pass the torch. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 18:20, 31 January 2006 (EST)

:: I really don't see the need to make any succession templates. (Or for a succession box at all, to be honest.) It's not like we know each president that came before Adar anyway. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 18:26, 31 January 2006 (EST)

:::Well, this is one of those "for the sake of fun" things: it makes the article look all shiny and "official"..."Just like a real-life President's article on Wikipedia!" hahah, etc. etc. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:36, 31 January 2006 (EST)

== Deceased vs † ==
In the character templates, rather than using KIA or Deceased, should we switch to the cross? It's succinct, efficient, and I like the way it looks on the battle pages. I had thought about migrating it over to the TOS character data templates, but this was a good opportunity to bring it up --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:14, 10 February 2006 (EST)

:First, readers might not understand that at first glance. Second, "KIA" still seems fitting for military personnel. Possibly † could be used for non-military civilians (no KIA), but I really think it would cause more confusion than good. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 15:26, 10 February 2006 (EST)

:Also, shouldn't we be using a Greek symbol of death, as opposed to a Christian one? :P --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 19:54, 10 February 2006 (EST)

::I actually got the symbol off of Wikipedia's Battle Pages. Like for Admiral Horation Nelson at the Battle of Trafalgar. So if it's Wikipedia's convention to use it (they even use it for Roman battles taking place before the Christian era), then I guess it is our policy too. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:55, 10 February 2006 (EST)

:::I like the cross. Sure, the colonials don't have access to christian symbology, but this isn't supposed to be an "in-universe" document, and the meaning is transparent to the reader (and succinct). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:58, 10 February 2006 (EST)

== Homeworld ==

The last episode seems to indicate she's from Geminon (Zarek: "You'd be surprised how many people want the cool assurances of a scientist as opposed to the religious madness of the Geminese"). [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 15:00, 21 February 2006 (EST)
:I think Zarek was referring to how the Gemenese were railroading public opinion by supporting Roslin-as-Prophet. Its an allegory to how politicians in modern times pander to the religious and how the religious in return strong-arm the politicians. A good case in point of this is seen in [[The Captain's Hand]] with Sara Porter demanding Roslin outlaw abortions or she'll make sure she loses Gemenon's vote in the election. If anything at all the series seems to be hinting that she's from Caprica but just hasn't come out and said it yet. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 17:32, 21 February 2006 (EST)
::I agree with Kahran. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:27, 21 February 2006 (EST)
::Didn't she serve under Adar when he was mayor (on Caprica)? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 19:35, 21 February 2006 (EST)

User talk:The Merovingian

2006-02-20T21:47:32Z

Redwall: /* Colonial arm patches and insignia */

Timeline (RDM)

2006-02-18T14:55:26Z

Redwall: /* The Captain's Hand */

''Dates use the day of the [[Cylon Holocaust]] as a baseline. See also [[Survivor Count]], [[History of the Twelve Colonies]].''

==Ancient History==
*'''-3600 Years:''' [[Pythia]] records her prophecies.
*'''-2000 Years:''' The thirteen tribes leave [[Kobol]]: twelve for the [[Cyrannus System]], the other for [[Earth]].

==Recent Colonial History==
*'''-52 Years:''' Cylon revolt begins the [[Cylon War]]. [[Articles of Colonization]] signed ([[Colonial Day]], [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/04/index.html#a000025 RDM, April 11, 2005]).
*'''-51 Years''' Colonials suffer a major defeat when the Colonial ship ''[[Brenik]]'' is lost after a boarding action by Cylon Centurions, which resulted in some of the bloodiest, hand-to-hand fighting of the war. A young Petty Officer [[Saul Tigh]] is one of a handful of survivors.
*'''-50 Years:'''
** [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' enters service under Commander [[Peter Dash]].
*'''c. -41 years:''' [[William Adama]] beings his service in the Colonial Fleet as a Viper pilot, near the end of the Cylon War.
*'''-40 Years:''' Armistice between the Colonials and the Cylons ends the [[Cylon War]].
*'''-20 Years:'''
**Last significant [[FTL|Jump]] recorded on battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'s'' logs.
**[[Tom Zarek]] imprisoned for blowing up a government building on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]].
**[[William Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh]] first meet.
**[[Laura Roslin]] begins her career in politics.
*'''-7 Years:''' [[Saul Tigh|Saul]] and [[Ellen Tigh]] marry. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]], [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/deleted1.html deleted scene])
*'''-5 Years:''' [[Galen Tyrol]] assigned to ''Galactica''.
*'''-3 Years:''' [[Felix Gaeta]] assigned to ''Galactica''.
*'''-2 Years:'''
**[[Number Six]] (in the guise of Natasi) first encounters Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]].
**[[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|A copy of Sharon Valerii]] begins serving aboard ''Galactica''.
**[[Zak Adama]] dies in a flight school accident. His funeral is Lee and William Adama's last meeting until the miniseries.
**Lt. [[Kara Thrace]] is re-assigned from Flight School to Battlestar ''Galactica''.
*'''-1 Year:''' Last time [[William Adama]] and [[Caroline Adama]] speak.
*'''-Several months''' [[Caroline Adama]] gets engaged.
*'''-3 Weeks:''' [[Anastasia Dualla]] last visits her home.
*'''Zero Hour:''' Cylons [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|destroy]] the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. The (so-far-known) only known survivors are a rag-tag fugitive fleet escorted by ''Galactica''; ''Pegasus'', another [[Pegasus (RDM)|isolated battlestar]]; a fleet of 15 civilian FTL capable ships; and the [[Resistance (movement)|resistance]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. Events of the [[Mini-Series]].

==Season 1==
*'''1 Day:''' [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]. ''Galactica's'' fleet leaves [[Cyrannus]] System.
*'''6 Days:''' ''Galactica'' finally loses the Cylon pursuers. Events of episode "[[33]]".
*'''7 Days:''' ''Pegasus'' encounters a fleet of 15 civilian ships, including ''[[Scylla]]''.
*'''10 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Water]]"
*'''12 Days:''' Tom Zarek engineers the capture of the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' by its prisoner crew. Events of episode "[[Bastille Day]]".
*'''14 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Act of Contrition]]". [[Skirmish over the Red Moon|Starbuck is missing after a Cylon fight]].
*'''15 Days:''' Events of episode "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]"
*'''17 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Litmus]]"
*'''21 Days:''' First recollection by any of the ''[[Rising Star (RDM)|Rising Star]]'' crewmembers of giving [[Ellen Tigh]] medical assistance ("about a week" before "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]").
*'''24 Days:''' [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica Valerii]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] first make love. Events of episode "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]"
*'''25 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Flesh and Bone]]"
*'''26 Days:''' Ellen Tigh resumes consciousness ("a couple of days" before [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).
*'''28 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]".
*'''36 Days:''' [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]]. Caprica Valerii is pregnant and suffering morning sickness. Events of episode "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]".

===[[Colonial Day]]===

*'''Day 46:''' Delegates selected for the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. [[Tom Zarek]] selected to represent [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]]. Roslin implores Adama to permit his participation. [[Valance]] prepares to smuggle a ceramic stealth gun into the ''[[Cloud Nine]]''. Zarek addresses the fleet from the prison ship [[Astral Queen]]. Gaius Baltar selected to represent [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. Apollo and Starbuck inspect the [[Cloud Nine]].

*'''Day 47 - Morning:''' Colonial Day. Delegates arrive on Cloud Nine. Roslin addresses the Quorum. Baltar eyes [[Playa Palacios]]. Zarek moves to elect a vice president and is nominated by [[Marshall Bagott]]. Motion passes, chair to remain open 72 hours for nominations.

*'''Day 47 - Afternoon:''' Roslin asks [[Wallace Gray]] to run for the vice presidency. Zarek expounds on his reform agenda. Valence scuffles with Apollo and Starbuck and is jailed. Helo and Caprica Valerii arrive at a spaceport in the vicinity of [[Delphi]].

*'''Day 47 - Evening:''' Starbuck and Apollo interrogate Valence to no effect.

*'''Day 48 - Morning:''' Grey addresses the Quorum. [[Safiya Sanne]] changes [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]]'s vote to Zarek, bringing his total to 5 of 12.

*'''Day 48 - Afternoon:''' Zarek serves [[Ellen Tigh]] a drink and inquires after the whereabouts of Valence. Baltar interviewed by [[James McManus]]. Valence found dead. Tigh, Apollo and Starbuck consult with Roslin on security.

*'''Day 48 - Evening:''' Roslin travels to ''Cloud Nine'' and asks Grey to drop out of the race and recruits Baltar to replace him, interrupting his "exclusive" with Palacios. Apollo and Starbuck flirt in the bunk on ''[[Galactica]]''.

*'''Day 49 - Morning:''' Baltar elected Vice President, with Roslin casting the tie-breaking vote.

*'''Day 49 - Evening:''' Victory party for Baltar. Roslin dances with Adama, Ellen with Saul Tigh, Billy with Dualla, Starbuck with Apollo and Baltar.

*'''Day 49 - Night:''' Helo and Caprica Valerii infiltrate the spaceport. Helo discovers Valerii is a Cylon and flees.

''Note: Roslin states that the chair will remain open for nominations for 72 hours on the morning of Day 47, but the [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|next episode]] clearly takes place the day after the victory party, and is stated to take place on Day 50. Perhaps the Quorum moved to close the nomination period early after the nomination of a strong candidate.''

===[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]===
*'''Day 50 - Early Morning:''' Apollo and Adama spar. Baltar and Starbuck have sex. Caprica Valerii catches up with Helo at [[Delphi]], and he shoots her. ''Galactica'' Boomer contemplates suicide. [[Cottle]] examines Roslin and gives her "six months, at the outside".

*'''Day 50 - Morning:''' Starbuck and an (already) drunken Baltar exchange innuendos over the officer's card game.

*'''Day 50 - Afternoon:''' Roslin briefs Baltar on her economic agenda. [[Number Six|Six]] warns him that "it's not safe to remain on ''Galactica''". ''Galactica'' Boomer and Crashdown stumble upon [[Kobol]]. Helo holds Caprica Valerii at gunpoint. Apollo and Starbuck exchange blows.

*'''Day 50 - Evening:''' Roslin examines an orbital photograph of Kobol and has a vision of the [[City of the Gods]]. Adama decides to send an expedition, which Baltar demands to accompany. ''Galactica'' Boomer shoots herself on Baltar's advice. In private, Roslin unsuccessfully petitions Commander Adama to send the Cylon Raider after the [[Arrow of Apollo]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]].

*'''Day 50 - Night:''' [[Battle of Kobol]] begins. Scout party ambushed by a [[Cylon Basestar]] at Kobol. Starbuck devises a plan to deliver a nuke to the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] using the captured [[Cylon Raider|Raider]] and [[Cylon Transponder]]. Roslin convinces her to purloin the Raider and take it to Caprica instead.

===[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]===
*'''Day 51 - Early Morning:''' Survivors of [[Raptor 1]] escape the wreck. Baltar passes out. Adama terminates Roslin's presidency. Apollo and Tigh plan an assault on ''[[Colonial One]]''. Adama dispatches the wounded Boomer to take out the basestar. Caprica Valerii leads Helo to [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]].

*'''Day 51 - Morning:''' Starbuck arrives at Caprica, retrieves the [[Arrow of Apollo]], kills a copy of [[Number Six|Six]] and meets up with Helo. ''Galactica's'' [[Marines|marines]] board ''[[Colonial One]]''. Apollo mutinies, Roslin stands down. Baltar has a vision of the shape of things to come. ''Galactica'' Boomer confronts other Valerii copies on the basestar. She returns from her mission and shoots Commander Adama.

==Season 2==
''Note: Season 2 dates are rough guesses, at best. See [[Talk:Re-Imagined Series Timeline|Talk]] for detailed rationalle.''

===[[Scattered]]===
*'''Day 51 - Morning:''' A [[Cylon Basestar]] ambushes the fleet, which jumps to an emergency rendezvous point. ''Galactica'' jumps to wrong coordinates and is forced to backtrack. [[Battle of Kobol#Scattering of the Fleet|''Galactica'' holds off basestar]] and returns to bulk of the Fleet.

===[[Valley of Darkness]]===
*'''Day 51'''
* ''Galactica'' is partially disabled by a Cylon [[Virus|virus]] while a [[Cylon Centurion]] boarding party attempts to [[Battle of Kobol#Cylon Boarding|commandeer the ship]].

===[[Fragged]]===
*'''Day 51'''
* [[Crashdown]] is shot by [[Gaius Baltar]] on Kobol after threatening to shoot [[Cally]].

===[[Resistance]]===
*'''Day 52:''' Tigh interrogates Tyrol and imprisons him with ''Galactica'' Boomer.

*'''Day 54 - Morning:''' [[Cally]] blackmails Baltar into running his Cylon test on Tyrol. Baltar notes to Tigh that he should assume Roslin's duties; he invites Baltar to join her in the brig. ''[[Aturian]]'' stops refining Tylium in protest of Martial law. Apollo briefs pilots in the ready room. Dualla checks out his ass. On Caprica, Starbuck and Helo meet [[Samuel Anders]]'s [[Resistance (movement)|Resistance]].

*'''Day 54 - Afternoon:''' Tigh deploys troops to vessels refusing to supply ''Galactica''. The [[Gideon]] Massacre takes place. Roslin is chagrined. Apollo initiates his escape plan.

*'''Day 54 - Evening:''' Saul and Ellen Tigh argue and have sex. Baltar poisons Tyrol and interrogates Boomer. Starbuck and Helo arrive at the Resistance HQ with Anders.

*'''Day 55 - Morning:''' Apollo delivers briefing, orchestrates Roslin's escape. The deck gang begin construction of a new brig cell for Humano-Cylons.

*'''Day 55 - Afternoon:''' Apollo & co. disembark at the [[Cloud Nine]] and link up with [[Tom Zarek]]. Starbuck and Anders flirt.

*'''Day 55 - Evening:''' Commander Adama wakes up. Cally kills ''Galactica'' Boomer.

===[[The Farm]]===
*'''Day 58:''' - According to a [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)|deleted scene]], this episode takes place one week after "Fragged".

===[[Home, Part I]]===
*'''Day ?? - Morning:''' Kara Thrace's captured [[Cylon Heavy Raider|Heavy Raider]] jumps into orbit around Kobol. Tom Zarek atempts to have it shot down because its not the same Raider that Thrace departed in. Thrace lands her Heavy Raider aboard the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' and is reunited with President Rolsin and Lee Adama. Lee learns that in addtion to Karl Agathon, Thrace brought back the Caprican copy of Sharon Valerii and pulls a gun on her. After defusing the situation with words, Roslin orders Valerii thrown out the airlock, but relents and has her thrown into the brig instead after hearing both Thrace and Agathon's protest. Commander Adam promotes Captain George Birch to be the new ''Galactica'' CAG.

*'''Day ?? - Afternoon:''' Commander Adama holds a press conference reguarding the escape of President Roslin from his custody and the ensuing marshall law. Adama ajourns the press conference however when the questions become incresingly pointed.

*'''Day ??+1 - Morning:''' Cpt. Birch on his first mission as CAG is responcible for an accident that nearly kills Lt. Louanne Katraine. Zarek and his trusted lieutenant Mier plot to overthrow Roslin and take command of the fleet.

*'''Day ??+1 - Afternoon:''' Cpt. Birch oversees his second fight mishap as CAG when two ships he's suposed to be guiding colide with one another during a routine refuling operation.

*'''Day ??+2 - Morning:''' Roslin's party, made up of Thrace, Cpt. Adama, Elosha, Zarek, Mier, Agathon, Boomer, two Zarek red-shirts, two Roslin red-shirtsand Rolsin herself land on Kobol. Using Valerii as their guide they set out in search of the [[Tomb of Athena]].

*'''Day ??+2 - Afternoon:''' The party is ambushed by Cylon Centurions after Elosha accidently trips a "bouncing betty" land mine and it blows up in her face, killing her. The surviving party is saved when Valerii uses an RPG launcher to destroy the last remaining Centurion.

*'''Day ??+2 - Evening:''' Adama makes the decision to put the fleet back together after a long and heartfelt talk with Dee.

===[[Home, Part II]]===
*'''Day 66-67:''' - [[Raptor 1]] lands on Kobol with [[William Adama]] and his contingent. [[Tomb of Athena]] found.
*'''Day 68-74:''' - Roslin reestablished as lawful President; martial law ends. Fleet reunification.

===[[Final Cut]]===
*'''Day ~75''' [[D'anna Biers]] produces a documentary aboard the Galactica about the "[[Gideon massacre]]". It is a generally positive documentary broadcast to the fleet. Unknown to the fleet, it is also surveilance by the Cylons into the status of the Colonial fleet.

===[[Flight of the Phoenix]]===
*'''Day 86''' - Cally released from the brig.
*'''Day ??''' - [[Great Cylon Turkey Shoot|''Galactica'' routs hundreds of Cylon fighters]] without a casualty while dispatching a [[Logic bomb]] from their ship computers. The [[Blackbird]] prototype stealth fighter is built by [[Chief Tyrol]] and a team of Galactica crewmembers. Lt. Thrace flies it on it's first test flight, quickly proving it's value as a stealth craft.

===[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]===
*'''c. Day 175''' - ''Galactica'' encounters battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. Admiral [[Helena Cain]] assumes fleet command.
*'''c. Day 175'''- [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] accidentally kills ''Pegasus'' Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne|Thorne]] and is arrested with [[Karl Agathon|Helo]].
*'''c. Day 175''' - A standoff between the two battlestars begins over the treatment of the arrested ''Galactica'' crew.

===[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]===
*'''Day ~175''' - The standoff between the two battlestars ends in an uneasy truce, and a tense summmit aboard Colonial One, after Lt. Thrace returns from an unauthorized surveilance mission to the Cylon fleet, where she gains critical evidence on a Cylon ship. Dr. Baltar is able to determine from [[Gina]] that this is the [[Resurrection Ship]] that cylons need to resurrect so far from the Cylon homeworld.

===[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]===
*'''Day ~177''' - The Battlestars Galactica and Pegasus together engage the Cylon fleet in the [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship]], where they achieve an overwhelming victory with relatively light casualties, destroying not only the Resurrection Ship, but at least one other Cylon base star. The Blackbird is destroyed in the battle, although Lee Adama manages to eject successfully. At least one Raptor is also lost in the battle. Admiral Cain is killed by Gina, after Baltar helps her escape captivity. He then proceeds to hide her in the fleet.

===[[Epiphanies]]===
*'''Day 189''' - President Roslin near death; orders death of Cylon fetus. A [[Demand Peace|Cylon peace movement]] begins to pose as a threat to [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]. The Cylon fetus is eventually spared, when Dr. Baltar determines how to use Cylon fetal stem cells to treat Roslin's cancer. Dr. Baltar smuggles the nuclear weapon that he was provided with for work on his Cylon detector to the Cylon peace movement aboard Cloud Nine.

===[[Black Market]]===
*'''Day ???''' - Commander Fisk is murdered aboard the Battlestar Pegasus. Lee Adama begins an investigation into the matter.
*'''Day ???''' - Lee Adama kills [[Phelan]], leader of the [[Black market (organization)|Black Market]] crime syndicate.
*'''Day ???''' - Lee Adama is debriefed on the entire incident regarding the murder of Fisk and the Black Market.

===[[Scar]]===
*'''Day ???''' - After 29 days in an asteroid field (putting us at Day 218 or later), the ''[[Majahual|Majahual's]]'' mining operation has produced enough raw materials for the construction of two new Viper squadrons using the fabrication facilities aboard the [[Pegasus (RDM)|Battlestar ''Pegasus'']]. Attacks on the operation continue by the ace Cylon raider known as [[Scar (Raider)|Scar]], making it the source of a heated competition between Lt. Katraine and Cpt. Thrace.

===[[Sacrifice]]===
*'''Day ???''' -

===[[The Captain's Hand]]===
*'''Day ???''' - At least one month after the events of "Sacrifice", [[Lee Adama]] has been promoted to Major and temporarily assigned to ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. ''Pegasus'' Commander [[Barry Garner]] dies during the [[Battle of the Binary Star System]]. Adama is promoted to Commander and given command of ''Pegasus''.

==Future Events==
*'''<s>Day 86 + 1 month (c. Day 116):''' Roslin's maximum life expectancy as of Day 86 ([[Flight of the Phoenix]])</s>
*'''Day 54 + 3 months (c. Day 144):''' [[Samuel Anders]]'s [[Resistance (movement)|Resistance]]'s anti-radiation med supply projected to run out ("[[Resistance]]").
*'''Day 12 + 7 Months (c. Day 222):''' Elections due for President of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] ([[Bastille Day]]).
*'''<s>Day 50 + 6 Months (c. Day 230):''' Roslin's maximum life expectancy as of Day 50 ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).</s>
**Roslin promised to get the fleet to [[Earth]] before her death '''(c. Day 230)''' ("[[Fragged]]").
*'''Day 24 + 9 Months (c. Day 294):''' [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|"Caprica" Sharon Valerii]]'s daughter born. (see [[#Notes|Notes]] below)
*'''Day 36 + 3 years (c. Day 1131):''' Fleet runs out of [[tylium]] fuel that was resupplied from the Cylon asteroid mine; assuming that no other sources have been found before this date. ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])

== Notes ==

*The above day listings use a simplistic calendar system with 30 day months and no leap years. The colonial calendar may be more sophisticated.
*The date of Valerii and Agathon's child is speculated, assuming that the [[Humano-Cylon]]s share the same gestation period that humans do, and that the birth of their hybrid daughter is not [[Wikipedia:premature birth|premature]].

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:RDM]] [[Category:Colonial History|*]] [[Category:Behind the Scenes]]

The Captain's Hand

2006-02-18T14:41:00Z

Redwall: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Adamas.jpg|300px]]
| Title= The Captain's Hand
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 17
| Guests= [[IMDB:nm0001334|John Heard]] (CMDR [[Barry Garner]]) [[Richard Hatch]] ([[Tom Zarek]])
| Writer=[[IMDB:nm0900599|Jeff Vlaming]]
| Story=
| Director=[[IMDB:nm0590790|Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate= February 17 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= 49,584
| Prev= [[Sacrifice]]
| Next= [[Downloaded]]
}}

== Overview ==

== Summary ==
*The episode begins as two [[Raptor|Raptors]] begin a training mission outside [[Pegasus_(RDM)|Pegasus]], which is near a [[Wikipedia:Binary_star_system|binary star]], causing [[Dradis|DRADIS]] and communications interference. The raptors pass through a cloud, when they pick up a transmission. In the Pegasus C.I.C., the Raptors disappear from DRADIS, the Comm officer believing that they may be in distress.

*On [[Galactica]], [[Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] and the deck crew are in the process of unloading containers, when [[Cally]] mentions she heard movement from inside a fallen container. Against waiting for the Marines, Tyrol decides to investigate by entering the container. Inside, Tyrol finds a pregnant woman who asks for [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]]

*[[Lee Adama]] travels to the [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', where he meets up with [[Kara Thrace]]. Lee has been promoted to '''Major''', and Kara to '''Captain'''. The two encounter Commander [[Barry Garner]], now in command of ''Pegasus'', who orders Kara to the flight deck while he and Lee proceed to [[CIC|C.I.C.]]

*[[Barry_Garner|Commander Garner]] and [[Lee_Adama|Major Adama]] talk in private about the discipline on [[Pegasus_(RDM)|Pegasus]]. Garner thinks that [[Kara_Thrace|Starbuck]] is a huge part of the problem, but Adama defends her, citing her excellent piloting skills. Garner thinks that the virtues learned in his experience as an engineer would do the ship some good.

*Meanwhile, President [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]]'s relationship with Vice President [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] is growing increasingly strained.

*While reviewing the last transmissions from the Raptors, [[Kara_Thrace|Starbuck]] makes a startling discovery, in that the reason for the disappearance may be the result of answering a supposed distress call. She attempts to bring this up with Commander Garner, who flatly rejects the theory.

*Over wireless, [[Barry_Garner|Commander Garner]], [[Lee_Adama|Major Adama]], and [[William_Adama|Admiral Adama]] discuss the situation. Commander Garner feels they should jump to the missing location of the Raptors to bring them home. The Admiral asks Lee if he concurrs, in which Lee discusses Starbuck's theory that they were drawn to a Cylon trap. Admiral Adama is inclined to agree with the Major and Starbuck, and orders a recon mission to ascertain the fate of the two raptors. Garner is furious over the decision, and orders Major Adama off the C.I.C.

*Garner decides to make the jump regardless, causing a heated discussion in C.I.C. between him and Lee. By the end of the discussion, Garner asks the Sergant-at-arms to have Major Adama removed from the C.I.C., while the Major asks the same for Garner, relieving him of command. Drawing his weapon, the Sergeant asks for the '''Major''' to leave.

*Fighters are launched from Pegasus towards the now located raptors. One of the pilots is able to look inside their cockpits, only to find both Raptor crews dead. At that moment, a [[Basestar_(RDM|Basestar]] jumps into view of the pilots. DRADIS from Pegasus then shows two additional Basestars, which begin attacking Pegasus with conventional and nuclear arnaments.

*During the course of the assault, [[Pegasus|Pegasus']] [[FTL]] drive is disabled. Garner attempts to determine the cause from C.I.C. but is confused. Major Adama, still being held by the Sergeant-at-arms, attends to other duties, and confronts Commander Garner. Commander Garner decides to head down to the engine room, and gives Major Adama command.

*Pegasus manages to jump away, with [[Barry_Garner|Garner]] sacrificing himself in the process.

*In [[William_Adama|Admiral Adama's]] quarters, he and [[Lee_Adama|Major Adama]] review the reports from the incident on Pegasus, pointing out that Lee was more forgiving of the late Commander than Starbuck was. Admiral Adama then asks what Garner's fatal flaw was, and Lee responds by mentioning that Garner was good with machines, and not people. The Admiral asks Lee to keep that in mind, as he offers Lee the job of commanding Pegasus, along with a promotion to Commander. Lee takes a moment, then shakes his father's hand, accepting the promotion.

== Questions ==
*Would Adama allow Dr. Cottle to be arrested? From the episode, he is of the opinion that he would do what is necessary.

*Was Baltar's report real, or was it just invented to produce the opportunity to drive his wedge?
**Posibly, but either way, it is fairly obvious that with the constant Cylon attacks the Fleet's population (baring the unexpected return of ''Pegasus'') is almost always declining, as noted by Admiral Adama.
*Who will replace Baltar as Roslin's Vice President?
**Can Roslin actually pick another Vice President if Baltar refuses to resign? One of the reporters at the end actually directly asked if Baltar would remain as Vice President. Perhaps Roslin cannot forcibly remove Baltar from his office just because he's running aginst her.
*How will Zarek position himself in the Baltar campaign?
**It is likely that Zarek hopes to become Vice President himself.
*Will Tigh accept the fact that Lee Adama now outranks him and has command of a ship? Or does Saul have no interest in command and already told Admiral Adama that before the posting was offered to Lee?
**As mentioned in [[Scattered]], Col. Tigh was never really interested in commanding a [[Battlestar|battlestar]].
***Fleet protocols, as in the real-world US Navy and other naval services around the globe, would require Tigh, as the senior officer to take command, as he did when Adama was incapacitated.
****This is true for an intra-ship command structure, but if other qualified officers were available, Col. Tigh probably had the privilege to pass up the command of Pegasus, citing XO's prerogative (or something similar).
*What will happen to Rya, now that she had been granted asylum on ''Galactica''?
*Why was Lee promoted straight from Major to Commander? Can a Colonel not be placed in command of a battlestar for long-term purposes?

== Analysis ==
*When Baltar announces his candidacy for the Presidency, Number Six applauds with a slow clap. This reflects how then-Commander William Adama led the entire crew in a long, drawn-out slow clap in respect of President Roslin when she was re-instated to her office in "[[Home, Part II]".
*Survivor count is decremented by six from "[[Sacrifice]]", but seven people died in that episode - terrorists [[Sesha Abinell]], [[Vinson]], [[Page]] and [[Chu]], two unnamed marines, and civilian [[Billy Keikeya]]. At least one birth must have taken place to offset the population count between the two episodes.
*In the course of this episode's timeline, [[Lee Adama]] rises from the rank of Captian (CAG of [[Galactica]]) to Major (No details on posting except assigned to [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]) to the rank of Commander and CO of [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]] in the wake of Commander [[Barry Garner]]'s death saving his ship.
**Though not stated, MAJ Adama's duty was likely a temporary stint as ''Pegasus'' acting XO, to familiarize himself with the duties of a senior officer.

== Notes ==
*The recap at the beginning of this episode shows a scene we have not yet seen in the series. It is the scene where Admiral Adama says that he is choosing Garner as the new Pegasus Commander, possibly a scene that was cut from "Black Market" and will most likely appear on the next DVD set.
**Actually, this scene is really use of existing footage from "Black Market" when Adama and Tigh are telling Apollo to go to ''Pegasus'' on the hangar deck: the scene has been ingeniously redubbed, so that Adama is saying entirely new lines when the camera is pointed at ''Tigh'' (not at Adama's face), and then Tigh says new lines when the camera is pointed at ''Adama'' etc. The following exchange never happened in that episode:
::Adama: "I'm putting Garnder in command"
::Tigh: "He's an engineer, not a command officer"
::Adama: "He's the best they've got"
**There is also another case of this redubbing when Baltar is talking to Gina during the "previously" montage: when the camera is pointed at Baltar, we hear Number Six saying "You must betray Roslin and run for President in the upcoming election", but this was never heard in the aired version of "[[Epiphanies]]".
*[[Roslin]] refernces Shakespeare's ''Merchant of Venice'' when she asks [[Quorum of Twelve|Councillor]] [[Sarah Porter]] if she wants her "pound of flesh". It's unclear if analogues of his work exist in the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonies]].
*Col. Tigh does actually appear in this episode, seen very briefly in the ''Galactica'' CIC with no dialog.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==

== Statistics ==

=== Guest Stars ===

*John Heard as Commander [[Barry Garner]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Aaron+Douglas Aaron Douglas] as Chief [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Nicki+Clyne Nicki Clyne] as Specialist [[Cally]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*Rekha Sharma as [[Tory Foster]]
*Brad Dryborough as Lieutenant [[Hoshi]]
*Christian Tessier as [[Tucker Clellan|Tucker "Duck" Clellan]]
*Amber Rothwell as [[Rya Kibby]]
*Kavan Smith as Lt. [[Richard Bayer|Richard "Buster" Bayer]]
*Stephanie van Pfetten as Cpt. [[Marcia Case|Marcia "Showboat" Case]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Patricia+Idlette Particia Idlette] as [[Sarah Porter]]
*Aaron Pearl as Ensign [[Abel Thornton]]
*Christina Schild as [[Playa Palacios]]
*Tammy Hui as ECO [[Lyla Ellway|Lyla "Shark" Ellway]]
*James Bell as Lt. [[Steve Fleer|Steve "Red Devil" Fleer]]
*Kurt Max Runte as Ensign Charles Bellamy
*Kimani Ray Smith as Pegasus Sergeant

=== Writing & Direction ===


=== Production Notes ===

*Series 2 (2005 / 2006)
*Production Number: 2.17
*Airdate Order: 17 (of 20)

=== First Run Air Dates & Releases ===

*UK Airdate: Date
*US Airdate: 17 February 2006
*DVD Release (UK): Date
*DVD Release (US): Date
*[[Wikipedia:Nielsen Rating|Nielsen Rating]]: X.X million households, XXX share

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Jeff Vlaming]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]

Sacrifice

2006-02-16T12:56:21Z

Redwall: /* Noteworthy Dialogue */ (Grammar, holy smokes; and, can someone check the "against" line?)

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Sacrifice3.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Sacrifice
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 16
| Guests= [[IMDB:nm0001127|Dana Delany]] as [[Sesha Abinell]]
| Writer=[[IMDB: nm1093194|Anne Cofell Saunders]]
| Story=
| Director=Rey Villalobos
| Production=
| Rating=
| US Airdate=February 10 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population=49,590
| Prev= [[Scar]]
| Next= [[The Captain's Hand]]
}}

== Overview ==

: ''The'' [[Cloud 9]]'s ''lounge is under attack by terrorists who are convinced that [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] is playing the military. The leader of this quartet, [[Sesha Abinell]], demands that the invaluable Valerii be brought to her -- otherwise [[Ellen Tigh]], [[Anastasia Dualla]], [[Lee Adama]], [[Billy Keikeya]] and others will be executed.''

== Summary ==

*[[Billy Keikeya]] proposes to [[Anastasia Dualla]], who flatly refuses. Later on, Dualla and [[Lee Adama]] discuss the incident while on leave aboard ''[[Cloud 9]]'', at one of the ship's drinking and dining establishments.

*Keikeya, also aboard ''Cloud 9'', finds Dualla there. In an awkward moment, arises when he discovers that she is with Lee Adama. Adama leaves the two to talk, going to sit at the bar, where he encounters [[Ellen Tigh]], who begins to flirt with him.

*Three men and a woman named [[Sesha Abinell]] lay siege to the establishment, taking the guests hostage, and sealing the area off from the rest of the ship. Abinell's husband was killed aboard the ''[[Greenleaf]]'' when the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] attacked it ten weeks ago, and she decides to exact vengeance.

*Before the terrorists lay siege, Lee Adama asks Ellen Tigh to come with him into the restroom. Tigh follows, thinking that Adama has invited her for a sexual tryst. But Lee Adama had predicted the situation. As a gambit to confuse the terrorists, Adama takes the dry ice from Tigh's drink and uses it to sabotage one of the oxygen sensors. In the meantime, Tigh leaves the restroom and loudly announces herself to the terrorists.
[[Image:Sesha.jpg|thumb|Sesha Abinell.]]
*Abinell demands that Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] and President [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] turn over Cylon [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] to her, seeking Valerii's life in compensation for her husband's. She is infuriated that Admiral Adama and Roslin continue to allow one of their greatest enemies to live in their midst, even caged. She believes that Valerii is compromising the security of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], and that the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon holocaust]] was due to similar Cylon infiltration of the military.

*Abinell sends one of her men into the restroom to find anyone else they haven't rounded up. Captain Adama gets the drop on him and takes his gun, taking him out, threatening to kill him if the hostages are not released. Abinell threatens to kill Dualla if Adama refuses to surrender. Adama drops the empty threat and surrenders.

*Captain Adama's small-scale sabotage works, and the terrorists demand repairs to be made to the ship's oxygen systems.

*[[Kara Thrace]], along with a detachment of [[Colonial Marine Corps|marines]], are also on leave aboard ''Cloud 9''. They quickly plan a recon mission — Thrace disguises herself as the technician sent to repair the air system. Her job is to reconnoiter the situation and return with details.

*Thrace's cover is blown when Ellen Tigh recognizes her as one of ''Galactica's'' pilots. Thrace draws two pistols and begins shooting at the terrorists, soon aided by the marines. Two marines are killed, along with one of the hostage-takers. In addition, Thrace accidentally shoots Lee Adama. Thrace and the surviving marines retreat, and the situation is only exacerbated.

*The situation prompts Admiral Adama to once again consider the value of Sharon Valerii to him. Speaking with Valerii, she reminds the admiral that she saved the Fleet five or six times. Adama asks if she would reveal the identities of other Cylon agents in the Fleet. She refuses.

*Admiral Adama agrees to give the terrorists the dead body of Sharon Valerii in return for the hostages. However, he secretly delivers the dead copy of Valerii known as [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]]. When the terrorists realize the ploy, Sesha orders the terrorist [[Vinson]] to kill [[Anastasia Dualla]]. [[Billy Keikeya]] seizes one of the terrorists' guns and kills Vinson, but is mortally wounded by Vinson's return fire as marines storm the lounge. Abinell is killed by marines, her body falling atop Boomer's body.

*In the aftermath, Dualla stays with Lee Adama in the infirmary, promising to stay with him until he recovers. Laura Roslin grieves the death of Keikeya, who had become "the closest thing [she] had to family."

== Questions ==

* Who leaked out the information that Valerii was on ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''?
**Given that Caprica-Valerii has been taken to the middle of CIC, to Adama's quarters, to [[sickbay]], and transfered through open hallways, it could have been just any random crewmen by this point.
** Now that this information has been confirmed, thanks to the actions of Abinell and her conspirators, what kind of backlash should Roslin and Adama expect to face?
** Was it [[D'anna Biers]], who filmed Caprica-Valerii in the infirmary during her story on ''Galactica''?
** Was [[Gina]] ever made aware that ''Galactica'' had its own Cylon prisoner?
** Have Gina and Biers been collaborating?
* Is it also public knowledge that Valerii is pregnant ?
**Sesha seemed to have some conspiracy theory leaflets suspecting Cylon reproduction programs, etc. but whether these were substantiated or based on pure rumor is unclear. Rumor could possibly have spread from guards, personnel, etc. who can see that she is now pregnant.
* Why would Adama repeatedly have Valerii brought to his quarters for interrogation/discussion, and risk her imprisonment becoming known throughout the Fleet, instead of keeping her presence secret by going to her cell himself?
**As noted in previous [[Final Cut|episodes]], it it likely that Admiral Adama had a blanket order to all crewmembers not to discuss the existence of the second Valerii to civilians. However, with the introduction of ''Pegasus'', the fog of rumor that may have kept Valerii's existence vague likely dissipated.
* How did Abinell know that a Cylon agent infiltrated the Ministry of Defenses on Caprica?
**Baltar was openly accused of this in "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]", and Roslin even had a Fleet-wide press conference to exhonerate him of these charges.
* Who will become Roslin's new assistant? Was there a replacement groomed for the position at all previous to the events in this episode?
**During early episodes of season 1, nameless aides with no dialog can be seen trailing Roslin and Billy. In the DVD commentary for these episodes, RDM and Eick explain how they gradually just stopped using an entourage of aides with Roslin, and mulled over the idea of eventually working them back into the show. Perhaps this could be used to compensate for Billy's removal.
* What will happen to Billy's body? Will he be buried in space or stored in the morgue?
* Where did Abinell and her people get the weapons? Were they purchased from the [[Black market (organization)|Black Market]]?
* Will Lee Adama's depression worsen because of his shooting?
* What were Ellen Tigh intentions? (She practically gives away Thrace's cover and announces that she is the wife of ''Galactica'''s XO.) What was the purpose? Was there one at all, or was Ellen Tigh just being an idiot again?
** Based on her demeanor, it would be safe to say that she was looking out for her interests, knowing that her position (being the colonel's wife) would keep her relatively safe.
* Is the relationship between Apollo and Dee against military protocol in the same way that Tyrol and Valerii's relationship was, or have the rules on Colonial officers and NCO fraternization been relaxed?
**Just how far does the non-association protocol even extend anymore? What is the exact nature of the non-association protocol? Is it against officers having relationships with enlisted crewmen, or even enlisted crewmen having relationships with other enlisted crewmen (i.e. preventing Tyrol and Cally from having a relationship)? In "[[Litmus]]," Tyrol was willing to lie under oath (and all of his deckhands were willing to lie under oath) rather than let Tyrol face the punishment associated with continuing his relationship. Apollo and Dualla are in the same position as Boomer and Tyrol; one is an officer having a relationship with an enlisted crewman. Apollo and Dualla have an even greater gap between them, as Apollo is among the highest-ranking officers on ''Galactica'', and Dualla is a lower-ranking enlisted creman than Tyrol was.
***In "[[Litmus]]", Sergeant [[Hadrian]] questions Commander Adama: "Sir, isn't it true that you knew that Lt. Valerii and Chief Tyrol were having an illicit relationship, in violation of regulations?" The expressions on Tyrol's deck crew and others aboard ''Galactica'' ([[Miniseries]]) as Tyrol and Valerii (poorly) attempt to cover their intentions indicate many members of the ship were quite aware of their affair. The rules on fraternization are likely very similar to those found in [http://www.defenselink.mil/specials/fraternization/ the US Army regulations that prohibit business or personal relationships] only between an officer and an enlisted crewmember. (Chief Tyrol, while among the highest ranking members of ''Galactica's'' crew, is still a ''non-commissioned'' officer.) However, with the near-annihilation of humanity and the need for population growth, the rules are likely relaxed, with command staff monitoring the situation on a case-by-case basis (note Admiral Adama's last statement to his son at the end of the episode, "[[Black Market]]," indicating that the admiral, too, has his sources of information about the personal affairs of his officers).
* [[Saul Tigh]]'s prejudices were fully and repeatedly exposed in relation to [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica-Valerii]] (eg. describing her as a thing, objecting to [[William Adama]]'s reflexively referring to the prisoner by her assumed name). Will this begin to affect the close relationship between these two in future episodes? Will it deteriorate to a point where the XO will be relieved again in relation to a decision made by Adama as he once was in [[You Can't Go Home Again]]?

== Analysis ==
*[[Sesha Abinell]]'s husband [[Ray Abinell|Ray]] was killed during a Cylon attack ten weeks prior to this episode. The only change in the [[survivor count]] which remains unaccounted for was between "Home, Part I" and "Home, Part II", however, those episodes must have taken place well before Ray Abinell's death ten weeks prior to this episode. Other possibilities include Ray's death during the [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship]], although ''[[Greenleaf]]'' would have been far from the sight of combat; or his death being offset by a birth in between episodes.
* The final scene recalls that of Resurrection Ship Part II, except that Starbuck and Dee's roles are reversed.

== Notes ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Saul Tigh observing Sharon Valerii's exit from William Adama's office:''
:'''Saul Tigh:''' You know, if people knew how much you've relied on that thing's so called intelligence, they'd be scared out of their wits.
:'''William Adama:''' What about you, Saul? Are you afraid of her?
:'''Saul Tigh:''' You know, the truth is I don't like the way it's gotten under your skin.

*''After a bout of negotiations with Sesha Abinell, leader of the Cloud 9 terrorists, Adama briefly confers with Tigh:''
:'''William Adama:''' Saul, we can't give her Sharon. I hope you know that, right?
:'''Saul Tigh:''' I know that. Against our dealing with the terrorists... if we start now, it'll open the floodgates; and it will never stop. And by the way, it's not Sharon. It's a frakking Cylon.
:'''William Adama:''' You don't think I know that?
:'''Saul Tigh:''' I think there's part of you that looks into that thing's eyes and still sees that young girl that reported aboard two years ago as a rook pilot. Well, it's not. It never was. Bill, it's a machine.

*''Crisis conference between the President, the Admiral and the XO regarding how the terrorists demands should ultimately be dealt with:''
:'''Saul Tigh:''' What if they're right? What if Sharon has been playing us all, plotting our destruction with every passing day? What if the terrorists are right?
:'''Laura Roslin:''' This isn't about Sharon. It's about something much bigger than that. It's about the long term survival of the Fleet. It's about the way we conduct ourselves in all of this.

== Official Statements ==

== Statistics ==

=== Guest Stars ===
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*Unknown as [[Chu]]
*Unknown as [[Vinson]]
*Unknown as [[Page]]
*Michael Ryan as [[Ray Abinell]]
*Adrien Hughes as Lt. [[Terry Burrell]]
*Erica Carroll as Civilian
*James Upton as Environmental Specialist
*Georgia Hacche as Petty Officer [[Sion]]

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Rey Villalobos]]

Battlestar Wiki:Reference desk

2006-02-15T23:29:52Z

Redwall: /* Where is the fleet headed? */

'''Note: This is not a help page for problems with [[Battlestar Wiki]].'''

See the [[Battlestar Wiki:Wikipedian Quorum]] for Wikiquote-specific questions. '''''Before''''' posting a question here, you may also want to see if one of these pages can better answer your question:

* [[Battlestar Wiki:FAQ]]
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The [[Battlestar Wiki:Reference_desk|Battlestar Wiki Reference desk]] serves the same function as a [[Wikipedia:library reference desk|library reference desk]]. Do you have a specific question that you want answered by volunteers at Wikiquote? Ask below!

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'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:Battlestar Wiki:Reference_desk|action=edit&section=new}} Ask a new question by clicking here]'''
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<big>'''How to answer a question'''</big>

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[[Category: A to Z]] [[Category: Wikipedia]]

== Where is the fleet headed? ==

All the way back in [[Home, Part II]] several major characters finally figured out roughly where in space [[Earth]] was.

So, is [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]] headed for Earth or not? Why doesn't Adama just start jumping away in the general direction of Earth? Not a straight line, of course, and slowly enough not to risk damaging FTL drives. But it seems so obvious that getting away from the Cylons should be a top priority. Yet episode after episode goes by without any word, even in passing, that The Fleet is headed towards Earth or anywhere else in particular. Why is that? It might be neat if the route to Earth took The Fleet back the way they came...

I understand this might not really be ''Reference desk'' material, but I'm having trouble finding a better place to ask. Also, this question is asked between the (first showing of the) episodes [[Sacrifice]] and [[The Captain's Hand]], so may be answered later.

Personally, at the end of the entire series I'd have The Fleet finally reach Earth and discover ... Earth was where the Cylons spent the 40 years between the two wars. Who says we need a happy ending? --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 17:42, 15 February 2006 (EST)

:Interesting idea, but the Colonials know where the [[Cylon homeworld]] is. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 18:29, 15 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Terry Burrell/Archive 1

2006-02-11T05:02:56Z

Redwall:

A promotion from Gunny to Lt seems extremely unlikely. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 00:02, 11 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Laura Roslin/Archive 1

2006-02-11T00:54:04Z

Redwall: /* Deceased vs † */

==Source for SkyOne?==
Where does this "SkyOne" information come from anyway? I've tried the SkyOne website and can't find any of these "SkyOne" information things for Roslin, Starbuck, Baltar, etc. Does anyone actually have a LINK to any of these things? I'm confused. If there's no links, we may have to delete these. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:12, 23 January 2006 (EST)

:I generally concur with this. Like the unverified Zoic-sourced info on "other" battlestars in RDM, this source needs to be linked per the [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad]] or be deleted. Such information also appears on [[Kara Thrace]] and the [[Lee Adama]] articles. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:15, 23 January 2006 (EST)

::And also Sharon. Troyian seems to have been a busy little beaver. I mean, I understand when people read articles in magaines that aren't online, etc., but if this SkyOne thing has a website, why has no one ever provided a link to ANY of this information? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:26, 23 January 2006 (EST)

:::This is my fault. I found the SkyOne information on "[http://community.livejournal.com/thesecretcylon/ The Secret Cylon]" Livejournal community, in a pair of posts dated October 24th, 2005 – [http://community.livejournal.com/thesecretcylon/13190.html Part 1], [http://community.livejournal.com/thesecretcylon/13550.html Part 2]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:06, 23 January 2006 (EST)

*Apparently the information was originally on the SkyOne site, but at some point it was removed for some reason. Luckily some fans wrote all the information on the characters down, so it was saved. -- [[User:Troyian|Troyian]] 23:29, 23 January 2006 (EST)

: "Apparentky" according to who? I mean--maybe, rather than saving this information from web page editors, they just made it up and ''said'' they were saving it. Or maybe the reason it was removed is because it will be shown on screen later to be wrong. Or something like that. Anyway... Just thought I'd point out how little we really know about the source of this. Of course, all of my post is moot if one of us actually read it on the SkyOne web site before it was taken down. --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:20, 24 January 2006 (EST)

==Succession Boxes==
What's up with the succession templates towards the bottom of this one? Are those templates to be? They're currently busted... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:30, 31 January 2006 (EST)
: Looking at the history, it appears Ricimer put them there yesterday. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 15:36, 31 January 2006 (EST)

::History? Oh. THAT's what that button is for. (Actually, I just suggested another user look at the history on Lorne Greene, so my [[Radiological Alarm|hypocrite alarm]] just went off. My bad.) Oh, Joe... Did you get my email? Pia (of battlestarfanclub.de) responded, and I forwarded it to you. It sounds encouraging. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:40, 31 January 2006 (EST)

I put them in after seeing them on Roslin's Wikipedia article. I have no idea why they aren't working here. Can someone please try to get them to work? If not, delete it if we can't fix it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 17:52, 31 January 2006 (EST)

:The wikipedia version has the benefit of all the breadth and depth of the countless Wikipedia:Templates at its disposal. I've started playing with creating equivalent templates, but the conditional templates appear to be acting a little funny. Since there's unlikely to be a huge string of presidents, it might be worthwhile to just manually create wikiboxes at the bottom that LOOK like the succession box, and copy and paste should the need arise to pass the torch. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 18:20, 31 January 2006 (EST)

:: I really don't see the need to make any succession templates. (Or for a succession box at all, to be honest.) It's not like we know each president that came before Adar anyway. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 18:26, 31 January 2006 (EST)

:::Well, this is one of those "for the sake of fun" things: it makes the article look all shiny and "official"..."Just like a real-life President's article on Wikipedia!" hahah, etc. etc. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:36, 31 January 2006 (EST)

== Deceased vs † ==
In the character templates, rather than using KIA or Deceased, should we switch to the cross? It's succinct, efficient, and I like the way it looks on the battle pages. I had thought about migrating it over to the TOS character data templates, but this was a good opportunity to bring it up --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:14, 10 February 2006 (EST)

*First, readers might not understand that at first glance. Second, "KIA" still seems fitting for military personnel. Possibly † could be used for non-military civilians (no KIA), but I really think it would cause more confusion than good. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 15:26, 10 February 2006 (EST)

*Also, shouldn't we be using a Greek symbol of death, as opposed to a Christian one? :P --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 19:54, 10 February 2006 (EST)

Corporal

2006-02-10T12:40:39Z

Redwall: This is seriously unneccessary. We have the ranks article already.

{{delete}}

== Corporal ==

A rank in the [[Marine|Colonial Marine Corps]]

== Known Corporals ==

*Corporal [[Venner]]

== Notes ==

Rankings in the Colonial Marine Corps are similar to [[Wikipedia:US_Marine_Corps|US Marine Corps]]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Stallion/Archive 1

2006-02-08T23:34:35Z

Redwall:

== Origin ==

Sometimes I just read the transcripts and find stuff that none of us had associated before. Same was true for the [[Case Orange]] article. I would make an interesting detective where it not for (1) the fact that the name "Spencer" (in a version) is already taken as a cool P.I. name, (2) my own impatience would likely end up creating more murders than I would solve. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:03, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:I'm no gun expert, but does anyone else think this looks ''exactly'' like the four barreled handgun that ''Persephone'' (mmmmmm...) blew away Cain with (using a silver bullet) in ''The Matrix: Reloaded''?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:49, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::Ding, ding, ding! [http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/index.php?filnavn=/reviews/marushin_cop357/marushin_cop357_review.htm We have a winner!] Good call, Merovingian. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:57, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::Damn. I think you're right, if memory recalls. Excellent eye, Merv. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:58, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::Am I the only one who finds the weapon choices/sanskrit soundtracks/etc. of "The Matrix" to be completely irrelevant to the Battlestar Wiki? In this case, I'm sure there are many other films which use the same gun. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:24, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::::"Am I the only one..." No, you're not. But I must admit to something of a bias here: I absolutely hate Reloaded. Enough that I still refuse to see Revolutions. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 18:32, 8 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Stallion/Archive 1

2006-02-08T23:32:44Z

Redwall: /* Origin */

== Origin ==

Sometimes I just read the transcripts and find stuff that none of us had associated before. Same was true for the [[Case Orange]] article. I would make an interesting detective where it not for (1) the fact that the name "Spencer" (in a version) is already taken as a cool P.I. name, (2) my own impatience would likely end up creating more murders than I would solve. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:03, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:I'm no gun expert, but does anyone else think this looks ''exactly'' like the four barreled handgun that ''Persephone'' (mmmmmm...) blew away Cain with (using a silver bullet) in ''The Matrix: Reloaded''?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:49, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::Ding, ding, ding! [http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/index.php?filnavn=/reviews/marushin_cop357/marushin_cop357_review.htm We have a winner!] Good call, Merovingian. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:57, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::Damn. I think you're right, if memory recalls. Excellent eye, Merv. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:58, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::Am I the only one who finds the weapon choices/sanskrit soundtracks/etc. of "The Matrix" to be completely irrelevant to the Battlestar Wiki? In this case, I'm sure there are many other films which use the same gun. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:24, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::::"Am I the only one..." No, you're not. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 18:32, 8 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Louanne Katraine/Archive 1

2006-02-08T12:39:23Z

Redwall: /* What did Kara Realize? */

==Character Guide Pic==
I wonder if there wouldn't be a couple of pretty good character pic opportunities for her during "Final Cut". --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:22, 24 January 2006 (EST)

== What did Kara Realize? ==

I think I agree with <del>Ricimer</del> The Merovingian. Kara didn't realize that she was being destructive because of Anders... Anders is fraking up her normally destructive mentality. She didn't realize ''jack'' while in the cockpit. All she knew at the time was that she chickened out. Later, while sparing with Karl, he pinpointed why she chickened out. It's not like Kara was normal before meeting Anders. Before meeting him, she'd have gone on in and been blown up. After meeting him, she's become a bit more sane and she doesn't know how to handle that. I'll wait for responses before reverting, but I think The Merovingian (who sorely needs a name I can call him that's much shorter) and I had identical interpretations of the final few minutes of "[[Scar]]". --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:48, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:A) Agreed. I don't think Spencerian's assesment was right: Starbuck "chickened out" (prudently protected her own life) because, as they stated in dialog at the end, she has Anders to live for now, etc. etc.

:B) Why? You seem to have little difficultly in typing "The Merovingian" at present. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:55, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:: Re: B - Well, I use "Day" partly because it is a short, short word. You may've noticed I refer to [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr|Joe Beaudoin Jr]] as simply "Joe", [[User: Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] as simply "Peter", [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] as "Spence" and [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] as "SV". That may be a bit too many examples, but I'm trying to establish a pattern of typing laziness. If push comes to shove, I may start calling you "M" or something... "The Frenchman" is just as long, see... Anyway. That's the long answer. I guess the short answer would be, "Because I can't be bothered." *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:21, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::Frenchy? ;) --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 07:39, 8 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Scar/Archive 1

2006-02-05T20:05:18Z

Redwall: /* Where did the music come from? */

I'd like to point out that the Template box at the bottom of each episode page is wrong: "Scar" comes before "Sacrifice", not after it. This needs to be fixed but I don't know how to do this. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:25, 6 January 2006 (EST)

== Plausible Parallel? ==
Is it possible that this episode is a parallel to the [[The Lost Warrior (TOS)|episode in TOS]] in which there is a mano-e-mano showdown between a Human and a Cylon? I'm curious as to the possibility that RDM is taking each of TOS's episodes and "outdoing" them, both in believeability, realism, and intensity.--Hawke

:Almost certainly not. There is no TOS Viper vs. Ace Raider thing. It's actually a staple of many scifi tv shows for several years; the "Red Baron" episode. The good guys are at war with another race, and the hero must go up against the enemy's ace pilot. Notably, "[[Wikipedia: Space:_Above_and_Beyond|Space: Above and Beyond]]" did this when McQueen took out the ace Chig pilot, Chiggy von Rictoffen (sarcastic nickname they came up with for him). Long story short, no this is not at all from TOS. This is a classic military story, one of those things that doesn't even need to be scifi. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:15, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:: Abandon all hope, Ricimer. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:07, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:::'''The Gods don't want to [[You Can't Go Home Again|hear]] from Starbuck now. Because she's about to go out in that Viper and remove one of Their creations from Their universe. And when she gets back, she's going to drink a bottle of [[ambrosia]] as if it were Scar's frakking bio-mechanical blood, and celebrate his death! ''' -- [[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 22:14, 28 January 2006 (EST)

::Actually, it's funny that all the episodes that have been outdone were named after they were finished being written and the writers had no prior knowledge of the episodes they were homages to. I got this from the Battlestar Galactica Official Companion. BTW, I saw that Space ABove and Beyond ep and that;s what i thought of when I first heard of the Scar Raider. --Ltcrashdown 22:16, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:::LOL! Just finished watching that episode, and it's one of the best lines ever from that series. Ricimer paraphrased it well. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 19:41, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::::Even when McQueen quotes the Iliad at Chiggy before he finishes him off? "''Looking darkly upon Hector, swift footed Achilles answered, 'I cannot forgive you. As there are no trustworthy oaths between men and lions, there can be no love between you and me. Before then to glut with his blood, Ares, the god who fights under the shield's guard. Now the time comes for you to be a spearman and a bold warrior. You will pay in a lump for all the sorrows of my companions you have killed in your spear's fury.'' None of that "mercy to our enemies" stuff, "Cylons can be people too" things, no; straightfoward revenge. :) --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:07, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Did they do it?==

Ricimer, since I know you tape the episodes, I'll let you watch it again before removing that question. I think you'll agree with me that it's very clearly implied that Apollo stops things before they get that far. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:10, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:I actually watched this with several friends, and we got into a raging debate over whether this happened or not. About a third said no, a third said yes (including me), and a third said they weren't sure at all. It's sort of like how after "Pegasus", a lot of people were asking if Boomer got raped or not, because the editing was (intentionally) chaotic and confusing. However, we all know from the podcast of that that there were two versions and that was officially the "not raped" version.
:The podcast for this episode is ''vague''; he mentions only once the idea that "they'd get so drunk that they'd be in a state where they'd try to have sex with each other"--->OKAY, it wasn't quite that, but the point is he uses the word "try" in such a context (I listened to the podcast with friends) that after repeat listening...It didn't really give evidence one way or the other, plus these weren't the guys that directed it, etc. When *I* saw it, I got the ''impression'' that, through careful editing......frak. I can't put this more delicately forgive me. Frak. Well, to cut through it using Ad-libs; I thought that ''after Starbuck gets her panties pulled down, editing gets chaotic; Starbuck spreads her'' _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''and Apollo proceeds to'' _Verb_ ''her'' _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''with his own (conspicuous)'' _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''however Starbuck is proceeding too rough and really fast and Apollo keeps telling her to "slow down", which in context could mean *any number of things*. Starbuck then removes herself from the "presence" of his'' _Adverb_ _Adjective_ _Noun_ ''just as (off camera) he yanks his towel (or whatever) up, so when we actually see him in his first wideshot, he ''appears'' to have not removed his towel, when in reality he did but put it back off camera. ''--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:30, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::I really didn't find it at all ambiguous, and even if they did accomplish penetration extremely briefly, it's a crass thing to speculate about. The emotional consequences for Kara and Lee are the same regardless. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:23, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:::I am not being crass. I literally turned to the person next to me and said "Hey, wait a minute, did they just do it?" and no one was sure. It's not like I expect us to get any conclusive answeres based on analysis; I'm just saying "we're not sure"--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::::When I was watching it and Apollo had his hand on her ass, I turned to my friend and said, "It's about time" but I spoke too soon...--[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 22:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)

== Launch Gaffe ==

Was it just me, or when Starbuck and Kat launched from the ''Galactica'' in Viper VIIs, didn't the tube sequence show a Viper '''II'''?--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 02:21, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:Noticed this as well. Apparently the show has no stock footage of a Mk. VII launch sequence. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:22, 4 February 2006 (EST)
::Unless they referred to Kat or Starbuck talking over wireless from within the launch tube, this could be explained as being the "other" Vipers flying on patrol for other parts of the asteroid belt.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:32, 4 February 2006 (EST)
:::Then it's a case of bad editing, as it implies (at least from how I saw it) that Kat's flying a II, as we saw Starbuck getting into a VII.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 02:35, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==You are all driving me mad==
Please, for the love of god, use the "edit" link on the section you are working on. This allows other editors to work on other sections without incurring edit collisions. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:37, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:This place is getting really busy lately. Collisions are becoming more frequent, even on talk pages. Not sure if there is long-term help for this (or any wiki). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 5 February 2006 (EST)

==Props Given on... Old Props!==
Hey, did anyone else spot that [[Landram]] in the openning shot?--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 19:31, 4 February 2006 (EST)
:I noticed it but didn't know what it was (not a TOS fan). Nice catch! --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 22:41, 4 February 2006 (EST)
::So that's what they were called! I remember seeing them, made me smile when I watched the episode a 2nd time. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 22:28, 4 February 2006 (EST)

== Where did the music come from? ==

I swear that I have heard the background music before... It starts right at the end of "So say we all", and bleeds over through the workout scene. Where is it from, it is making me crazy?!?
: The Deer Hunter. Also, please sign your comments. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 15:05, 5 February 2006 (EST)

Talk:Majahual/Archive 1

2006-02-05T16:06:11Z

Redwall: /* Time span */

==Viper Construction?==
Episode hasn't aired in pacific time yet, but did this ship actually construct 40 vipers? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:36, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:Actually, it's not a ship. It's an asteroid that contains enough metal (and a quote) for the fleet to construct up to 40 Vipers. Also, it's confirmed that a Pegasus construction facility has successfully built a new Viper about 15 minutes into the episode. They have the resources, they just haven't used them yet. I'm updating as the episode airs to pave the way for others. --Ltcrashdown 22:39, 3 February 2006 (EST)

::I see that [[User:Erik Pflueger]] has added this article to [[The Fleet (RDM)]]. Can somebody who has seen the episode please verify that edit and correct, if necessary? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:11, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:::My fault I guess. I just said that it was a mining operation. It's possible that Majahual was a ship working on the asteroid field, but I'll have to watch the episode again to be sure. --Ltcrashdown 23:13, 3 February 2006 (EST)

Majahual is a mining ship. They use it to get metals they need to build Vipers. The production facilities for Vipers (well, Viper parts) are apparently on Pegasus. They aren't able to move ''fast enough'' to build all of them at once, but they have all the materials they need now. Did we ever find out how many Vipers to a squadron? Official Companion seemed to suggest 40. Anyway, it will be a while before they *finish* all of these new Vipers, but they're on their way. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:50, 4 February 2006 (EST)

Does anyone else think the name of this mining ship sounds like "Major Haul" as in "major haul of ore"?--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:55, 4 February 2006 (EST)

A colonial squadron numbers 20 craft, correct? It's entirely plausible, given ''Pegasus's'' more modern design that she'd be fully capable of building her own Vipers, Raptors, munitions, etc. I mean, ''Galactica'' is considerably older (and smaller) and she has a munitions plant onboard (albeit depicted rather... sloppily, and being kinda thrown together, but that's another discussion) and an extensive and highly capable water recycling system. The ''Mercury''-class (to which ''Pegasus'' belongs) was probably intended to operate for long periods of time in battlegroups at a distance from the Colonies that hampered resupply of craft, so that capability was inbred into the design. As Ricimer pointed out, it'll take them awhile to complete all those Vipers, but they did manage to get one finished in those 29 days.
And why ''can't'' the name of the ship be ''Majahaul''? What's wrong with that? Why can't the writers have a bit of tongue-in-cheek (no matter how lame it is) and name a ship as they want to? They're the ones writing this tale... so long as they are '''consistent''', and aren't changing the name at the next episode. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 03:51, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Time span==
How do we know it only took 29 days? Scar was killed on the 29th day, but they could have kept mining longer. In fact, when Roslin said another 9 days I'm pretty sure the scene didn't start with "216 hours ago". --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 05:19, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:Good point. Does anyone know what the time frame was for Roslins' comment? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:42, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::I checked, it's 81 hours, which is 3 days approx. So the mining took 35 days (29 - 3 + 9), assuming Roslins estimate proved accurate. It'd be fair to say about 35 days, or 5 weeks. --[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 06:33, 5 February 2006 (EST)

:::Long time to be sitting around... A good opportunity for a few basestars to jump in and blow everything to hell. Perhaps the fact that Boomer was onboard the Big G had something to do with this event not occuring? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:11, 5 February 2006 (EST)

::::Or that the two basestars blown up in Res Ship were the only ones nearby. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 11:06, 5 February 2006 (EST)