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Number Three

2006-12-18T20:05:30Z

Ragestorm: /* Notes */

{{Character Data
|photo= Threemos.PNG
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|callsign=
|seen=Final Cut
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role=Cylon Infiltrator/Journalist
|rank=
|actor=[[Lucy Lawless]]
|cylon=Y
|name=D'Anna Biers
}}

Cylon Model '''Number Three''', known to [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] as '''D'Anna Biers''', has infiltrated as a [[Colonial]] reporter for the [[Fleet News Service]] ([[Final Cut]]).

==Fleet Copy==
D'Anna Biers appears to be more of a tabloid rumor-and-innuendo format news journalist and less of the conventional Fleet journalist types such as [[James McManus]].

Biers is investigating the shootings of four civilians during a military intervention authorized by Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] in what she dubs for sensationalism's sake as the ''"[[Gideon]] massacre"''. Her efforts to interview ''[[Galactica]]'s'' crew are constantly thwarted by military protocol and stonewalling by Commander [[William Adama|Adama]], who privately acknowledges Tigh's mistakes, but seems adamant not to render any punishment.

The social and political repercussions of the ''[[Gideon]]'' incident become too much for President [[Laura Roslin]] to ignore. The citizens of the Fleet are becoming critical of ''Galactica'' and wonder if the military places itself at a different level of self-responsibility than its citizens. Working with Commander Adama, President Roslin invites Biers aboard ''[[Colonial One]]'' and proposes something interesting to the reporter. Adama and Roslin will give Biers "unlimited" access to ''Galactica'' and her crew to create a documentary on what it is like to be the last defensive group of the Twelve Colonies, as well as allowing her to interview many of the crew on the ''Gideon'' incident.

Biers is initially given a tour of the battlestar by Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]], but finds the nuts-and-bolts technology and layout information boring. She and her photographer, [[Bell]], prefer to record and interview the candid moments of ''Galactica's'' crew--even going so far as entering the senior pilot's quarters, where a scantily-clad [[Lee Adama]] finds the intrusion most unwelcome.

Biers begins in-depth personal interviews with many of the crew, including Dualla, Lieutenants [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]], [[Margaret Edmondson]], [[Kara Thrace]] and [[Karl Agathon]], as well as attempts to interview command staff such as Colonel Tigh. Of all the interviews, she desperately wants to ask Tigh many questions on his decisions in the ''Gideon'' incident, but Tigh stonewalls and evades her questions, partially from his annoyance in the situation, but also because he is distracted by a mysterious death threat left in his quarters: a verse of a poem from a Caprican poet known as [[Kataris]].

[[Image:CylonThree.jpg|thumb|left|Number Three model on Galactica ([[Final Cut]])]]
Biers appears to be in the right place at the wrong times throughout her documentary filming. She captures the growing behavioral problems with Lieutenant [[Louanne Katraine]], a Viper pilot who later crash-lands her Viper after failing a routine landing and is found to have been abusing [[stims]] because of the pressures she endures from the loss of her family and friends as well as the demands of being a Viper pilot. Biers also captures the sabotage to a [[Raptor]] that was intended to shuttle Colonel Tigh to ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' for some downtime for the colonel as well as a bit of business on orders of Commander Adama.

As Biers passes through [[sickbay]] during her documentary, she makes a highly unusual find. [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] is alive and being treated in sickbay. The existence of this second copy of the known [[Cylon agent|Cylon infiltrator]], who was thought to be dead by [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]], is too much for Biers not to document. However, Commander Adama intercepts Biers and demands that she give him the intriguing footage of Valerii. Biers pointedly asks why Adama is harboring this known Cylon in secret aboard the ship, and suggests that news of Valerii's existence could ruin Adama in the eyes of the Fleet. Adama evades the question and redirects it at Biers, asking whether exposure of this second Valerii's existence to the Fleet would do anyone any good. She surrenders a tape to Adama, but unknown to him, Biers retains the actual footage of Valerii in secret for herself.

Biers gets an opportunity to document what happens in [[CIC]] during a Cylon Raider raid at the Fleet.

As Biers is editing the documentary, reviewing the footage from the senior pilot's quarters, she sees [[Joe Palladino]] on his bunk with a copy of a book by Kataris. Biers' knowledge of Palladino's involvement in the ''Gideon'' incident immediately determines that Palladino is the likely suspect in the death threats. She and Bell grab their photo gear and rush to Tigh's quarters to find that Palladino has bound Tigh's wife, [[Ellen Tigh|Ellen]] and threatens to shoot Colonel Tigh with a sidearm. Tigh manages to talk the agitated lieutenant down and disarm him, where [[Colonial Marine Corps|marines]] take the wayward Viper pilot away.

Bier's final documentary is reviewed by Tigh, Adama, and President Roslin. While Tigh is initially perturbed at the documentary's unshiny look into Colonial military life, Adama finds it a good story, "warts and all." The documentary is broadcast to the Fleet, with Biers concluding the documentary with a rousing monologue:

:"I came to ''Galactica'' to tell a story. In all honesty, I thought I knew what that story was before I ever set foot here. How an arrogant military let their egos get in the way of doing their job safeguarding the lives of the civilian population. But I found the truth was more complex than that. These people aren't Cylons. They're not robots blindly following orders and polishing their boots. They're people. Deeply flawed, yes, but deeply human too. And maybe that's saying the same thing. What struck me the most is that despite it all: the hardships, the stress, the ever-present danger of being killed-- despite all that, they never give up. Never lie down in the road and let the truck run them over. They wake up in the morning, put on their uniforms, and do their jobs. Every day, no pay. No rest. No hope of ever laying down the burden and letting someone else do the job. There are no relief troops coming, no Colonial fleet training new recruits every day. The people on ''Galactica'' are '''it'''. They are the thin line of blue separating us from the Cylons."

:"Lieutenant Gaeta told me a remarkable statistic. Not a single member of ''Galactica's'' crew has asked to resign. Not one. Think about that. If you wore the uniform, wouldn't you want to quit? To step aside and say, "Enough. Let someone else protect the Fleet." I know I would. But then, I don't wear a uniform. Most of us don't, most of us never will. The story of ''Galactica'' isn't that people make bad decisions under pressure. It's that those mistakes are the exception. Most of the time, the men and women serving under Commander Adama get it right. The proof is that our fleet survives. And with ''Galactica'' at our side, we will endure. This is D'Anna Biers, Fleet News Service."

But the Fleet is not the only group that sees the documentary. A group of humanoid Cylons on Caprica--copies of [[Aaron Doral]], [[Number Six]], another [[Sharon Valerii]] copy and one other person, hidden from view initially in the theater where they sit, watch Biers' documentary (including, surprisingly, the footage of the Sharon Valerii copy in sickbay that Adama had presumably confiscated) with great interest. The Valerii copy remarks in surprise about the survival of her pregnant doppleganger on ''Galactica'', and the others are very intent on monitoring the pregnancy and survival of the Cylon/human hybrid fetus. The mysterious 4th person in the theater is revealed: a second copy of D'Anna Biers, which notes that the Raiders that intercepted ''Galactica'' were used to relay the documentary and its forbidden footage of Valerii from themselves to a nearby Cylon fleet for transmission to Caprica, at the price of some loss of Cylon material.

==Other Copies==
[[Image:Biers Downloaded.JPG|thumb|right|Number Three model on Caprica ([[Downloaded]])]]
Another version of Number Three was also in charge of "Downloading" [[Cylon agent]]s, and presided over the returns of both [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon]]. Like her counterpart in the movie theater, she is assisted by a Five, Six, and Eight.

Yet another Three (or possibly one of the previous two) enlisted "[[Caprica-Six]]" to help "reintegrate" the Sharon Valerii model known to humans as "Boomer" (Three and Six were previously friends from Six's own reintegration). Though her motives were outwardly altruistic, her conversation with them is filled with double meanings, trying to subtlely nudge both into exposing that they were "corrupted" by their close human interaction. Three's real goal is to assess the risk factor of these "Heroes of the Cylon" to the status quo, due to their different perpectives on the war and the genocide, and later [[boxing|box]] their consciousnesses when she became convinced they were a threat to the Cylon collective society.

Three is later trapped with both Caprica Six and "Boomer" Valerii beneath a garage after capturing [[Anders]]. With a hint from her internal "Gaius Baltar", Six deduces the truth. Shortly thereafter, Three resolves to kill Anders in spite of her previous agreement. But "Caprica" proves Three's assessment correct, and smashes her in the skull with debris ([[Downloaded]]).

Number Three (or at least this particular Number Three) appears to be a strict devotee of the [[Cylon Religion|Cylon religion]].

:''In Lucy Lawless' words "She's like the ultimate narcissist. She believes that she is the pure form, so she is constantly trying to bring everyone else in line with her worldview". D'Anna Biers was supposed to appear in a subplot of "Downloaded" in which she conspired with [[Gina]] to kidnap [[Hera]]. The episode ran overtime and the scenes, which were indeed filmed, were cut.''

Number Three again demonstrates her orational skills by giving a speech at the graduation ceremony of the [[New Caprica Police]] in "[[Occupation]]" and is blown up shortly afterwards, along with many of the other attendees, by [[Tucker Clellan|Tucker "Duck" Clellan]], whom she has just congratulated.

In "[[Exodus, Part I]]" Number Three visits an Oracle on [[New Caprica]] after having strange dreams that caused her to question her faith. These dreams, which focused on [[Sharon Agathon]] and her baby [[Hera]], led her to seek out more information about the death of the child. After speaking with Doctor Cottle, she was convinced that the child was still alive. She would confront Sharon with this information after discovering her on the planet, only to be shot once in each knee so that she couldn't signal for help from the other nearby Cylons.

After escaping New Caprica, Three visits a captured Baltar in his room aboard a Cylon Baseship. She gives him his pills, at the same time as she acts in an interestingly seductive manner with him. Baltar however, seems to reject her, asking about what will be done to him. Three tells him that the Cylons are unsure of his vote, and that they are even split on what to do with him, with only one model missing from the vote and on whom the decisions rests, the Sixes.([[Collaborators]])

[[Image:Season 3 - Promo - AMOS - Number Three.jpg|thumb|150px|left|Number Three on the Cylon Baseship.]]
Later on, two Threes form part of the Cylon counsel on the bridge of a Baseship, where they first learn of the virus which threatened to infect their ship. After Baltar returns with further information from the Baseships, one of the Threes makes the decision to abandon the infected Baseship to it's fate, angering the Hybrid.

After returning to the main fleet, Three learns from Caprica Six that Baltar lied to them about what he saw on the infected warship. She then proceeds to torture Baltar, first through body-wide electroshocks, and then with a sonic device which damages his eardrum, hoping to learn more about the disease. Near the end of the torture/interrogation, Baltar tells Three (calling her "D'Anna") that he loves her, which makes her stop and presumably feel something for him, for she caresses him as he falls unconscious.

In the episode [[Hero]] she is shown getting out of a bed with a still sleeping Baltar and Caprica-Six, indicating that she has started a relationship with at least Baltar, and possibly Caprica-Six as well. This copy continues to experiences prophetic dreams and visions, resulting in her ordering a Centurion to shoot her in the head so she may experience further visions in the time between death and rebirth.

She continues doing this daily, which attracts the attention of Baltar. He confronts her and accuses her of deliberately killing herself to experience resurrection, which leads her to confess to him what she's been doing. Three tells Baltar that when she dies she sees the faces of beings who she believes to be the "[[Cylon Models|Final Five]]", the Cylons no one has seen. Baltar asks her if she's seen his face, suspecting himself of being a Cylon, but Three states that she cannot remember. After each download, the memory quickly fades, but she has managed to draw a few sketches of what she recalls before forgetting. These sketches, however, are too surreal to reveal the identities of the Final Five.

Later on, she and Baltar decide to go to the Hybrid, to learn more about the Final Five from it. Instead, they manage to learn the location of a planet which is said to hold the [[Eye of Jupiter]], and artifact which is supposed to point the way to Earth. ([[The Passage]])

This turns out to be the [[Algae planet|same planet]] at which Galactica had recently arrived to collect algae. When the Cylons show up and four Base Ships surround Galactica, Baltar asks them to hold their fire as the civilian ships jump out. The Cylons contact the Battlestar and send Three, a [[Cavil]], Baltar and [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] to negotiate with them.

Three and Cavil tell Galactica that they wish to make a trade, believing them to have already found the Eye of Jupiter. They tell Adama that if they hand the Eye of Jupiter to the Cylons, they will in turn let the humans leave unharmed, and as a bonus Cavil offers to hand over Baltar to the Colonials, an offer which is well received.

[[Image:Leonis.jpg|thumb|right|Cylon Representative]]
Three threatens Adama by telling him that should the Colonials attempt to bring up the Eye of Jupiter onto Galactica, they would see what would happen. Adama, in response, tells her that if the Cylons try to land on the planet he will release every nuclear weapon Galactica has onto the planet, presumabley destroying the Eye. Adama then orders the Cylon be taken back to their ship, and ends the negotiations.

On the Base Ship, the Cylons discuss the situation, believing Adama to be bluffing. Cavil points out that they could eliminate the Galactica once and for all, and that it doesn't matter if they destroy the Eye because the Cylons would eventually find Earth one way or another. Caprica and Three disagree with him, saying that they need to get the Eye unharmed, but Cavil expresses annoyance at doing nothing. Three then tells him that there is a plan in motion, which surprises the other Cylons. She reveals to them that when their fleet jumped in, she ordered a [[Heavy Raider]] to land on the planet, using the Base Ships' arrival as a distraction. The Cylons become annoyed at not being told about this, but Three ignores them and leaves.

Visiting the Hybrid once again, she tells Baltar that she is very close to seeing the faces of the Final Five, and possibly of the Cylon god himself. The Hybrid tells them that the "sins" of the Final Five will be revealed only to those who enter the temple, to which Three responds (to Baltar) that they are very close to learning the truth. At that moment, Caprica interrupts them, asking them about what they are doing. Angry at not being included, she tells them that she has felt excluded from a relationship which once included the three of them. As Baltar begins to make excuses Three quickly declares that they are finished, and that her and Baltar's destiny does not include Caprica. Three tells Baltar that they need to go down to the planet themselves to learn about the truth about the Final Five, and they leave Caprica behind.

Three and Baltar descend onto the planet, on a group of six Heavy Raiders, which provokes the Colonials to begin preparing their nuclear weapons. The Cylons onboard the Base Ship wish to stop the raiders, but another Three tells them that D'Anna (the Three with Baltar) was adamant about going down onto the planet, and that they would not stop. Leaving the Cylons angry at her for taking such decisions without their consent, and the Colonials ready to nuke the planet, Three continues on her path to the planet, and to what she believes to be the truth about the Final Five. ([[The Eye of Jupiter]])

==Notes==
*Since Biers has not appeared in past episodes that feature the fleet-wide press, it can be speculated that prior to the [[Cylon Attack]], she was more of a tabloid investigative reporter than a mainstream journalist. She may also simply be a social commentator along the lines of [[w:Michael Moore|Michael Moore]] or [[w:Ann Coulter|Ann Coulter]], though her status prior to the holocaust was never revealed.
*Biers' existence as a Cylon infiltrator brings the total number of revealed models (to the Colonial characters) to six as of "[[Final Cut]]," although her identity remained unknown to the Colonials until the return of [[Samuel Anders]] and his resistance cell in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]". A seventh agent was also revealed in that episode. This leaves five unknown models as of "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]." [[Cylon agent speculation|Speculation on other characters]] and their true identities as Colonials or Cylon infiltrators is still ongoing.
*In behind the scenes interviews, Lucy Lawless has said that to contrast her character with ''Galactica's'' crew, D'Anna still wears fashionable clothes, make up, and jewelry, probably because she has access to some form of [[black market (organization)|black market]] in the Fleet.
*[[Lucy Lawless]]' more renowned TV character, [[wikipedia:Xena|Xena]], originates from [[wikipedia:Amphipolis|Amphipolis]]; an actual village situated between Greek provinces Macedonia and [[wikipedia:Thrace|Thrace]]. See also [[Kara Thrace]] entry.
*{{spoilli|At the official [http://www.ausxip.com/conventions/2006burbank/taipo-conlucy.html Xena 2006 Convention], Lucy Lawless stated that "they" turned around and asked her "Do you want to play [[God]]?" There is a character who sets herself up as God, and Lucy would likely play her. Her theory is that there's nowhere to go after playing Xena but to playing God! But ''none of this is a done deal'', she cautions, because they're still working out the logistics}}
*According to [[James Callis]] in an interview<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.ifmagazine.com/feature.asp?article=1659 |title=Exclusive Interview: JAMES CALLIS SELLS iF MAGAZINE A BILL OF GOODS ON BATTLESTAR GALATICA SEASON 3 -PART 1 |date=2006-09-09 |accessdate=2006-09-09 |last=Elliot |first=Sean |format= |language=English }}</ref>, in Season 3, [[Lucy Lawless]]'s character (unspecified if it is D'Anna Biers or the Number Three model as a whole) "puts herself at odds with the rest of Cylon society".
*A few scenes on the Basetar (particuarly those in [[The Eye of Jupiter]]) imply that Number Three is in a senior position to at least some of the other models. For instance, she refers to the landing of Centurions on the algae planet as "need-to-know." It is also implied that the individial referred to as "D'Anna" is in turn the leader of the Threes, though evidence for this could just show solidarity among the whole model.

== References ==
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{{characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Number Three]]
[[Category:Characters|Number Three]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Number Three]]
[[Category:Cylons|Number Three]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)|Number Three]]
[[Category:RDM|Number Three]]

Caprica-Six

2006-10-31T21:47:51Z

Ragestorm:

:''This page is about "Caprica-Six", the copy of Cylon Model Number Six who seduced Gaius Baltar in order to sabotage Colonial defenses in the Cylon attack. For information on two other named Number Six copies seen in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], see [[Shelly Godfrey]] and [[Gina]]. For general information on the model, see [[Number Six]].''

{{Character Data
|photo=Capricasix.PNG
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|servicen=
|callsign=
|seen= Miniseries
|death= Killed by nuclear shockwave and reborn. ([[Miniseries]]) Shot by Number Five and reborn. ([[Precipice]])
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status= In a relationship with [[Gaius Baltar]].
|role= Cylon Infiltrator
|rank=
|actor= [[Tricia Helfer]]
|cylon= y
|name=
}}

Prior to the attack, '''Caprica-Six'''<ref name="name">"Caprica-Six" is not a fan-invented name. She is literally called "Caprica-Six" in dialog in "[[Downloaded]]", which is revealed in a conversation which explains that it is a nickname the Cylons developed to distinguish this "hero" from all of the other copies. This may actually be a jab by the writers at fans, who earlier came up with the fan designations "''Galactica''-Sharon" and "Caprica-Sharon" to tell various Cylon copies apart. </ref> was a copy of Six who played an important role in preparing the way for a Cylon invasion.

For two years, Caprica-Six lived on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. Seducing the ambitious, self-obsessed, arrogant [[Gaius Baltar]], she fools him into believing she was a corporate spy, seeking to gain advantage over her competitors in order to secure a lucrative defense contract ([[Miniseries]]). Over the course of two years, she used Baltar to gain access to his work -- even to the extent of re-writing many of his own algorithms -- in order to subvert his own [[Command Navigation Program]] so that it could be used in the forthcoming Cylon attack to cripple Colonial forces.

Near the end of the two years, she sees a baby in a pram in a market place. The baby's mother is also present but then becomes distracted with someone else talking to her. Caprica-Six takes a closer look at the baby and snaps its neck and walks away looking distressed, possibly to spare it the coming nuclear holocaust.

When the Cylon attack starts, Caprica-Six tells Baltar how she is a Cylon, and what her real goal with is CNP was. When a shockwave from one of the nuclear bombs rips through Baltar's house, her body is destroyed as she tries to protect him from it.

She is reborn into a new body and is hailed as a "Hero of the Cylon." Just as Baltar has visions of her, Caprica-Six has persistent visions of ''Gaius Baltar''. When she asks the other Cylons, particularly [[Number Three]], if Baltar was still alive, the copy of Number Three replies that he died along with nearly everyone else still on Caprica and the other colonies.

While living on Cylon-occupied Caprica, her vision of Baltar and her own developing feelings and intuition leads her to question some of the basic ideals that the Cylons hold dear. Unbeknownst to her, Number Three becomes distressed with her lingering attachment to Baltar and seeks to manipulate her feelings in order to make her unstable, thus giving the Cylons an excuse to "[[boxing|box]]" her. Three points Caprica-Six in the direction of a [[Number Eight]] who was having trouble adjusting to life as a Cylon and still clinging to her old false human identity; [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Lt. Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]], formerly of the battlestar ''Galactica''.

[[Image:Dsix.jpg|thumb|left|The resurrected Caprica-Six ([[Downloaded]])]]
Through her counseling work with "Boomer"-Eight she learns that Three had deceived her; Baltar is not only alive but is also Vice President of the Colonies in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|surviving human fleet]]. After uncovering the lie about Baltar's death, she and Boomer-Eight began to question themselves more about their brethren. If murder was a sin in the eyes of [[God]] when committed by humans, why is genocide condoned by God when committed by Cylons? Questions like these begin to take hold in Caprica-Six's mind and are compounded by feelings of guilt for her role in the attack on the Colonies. While trapped in a garage with Boomer-Eight, Three and [[Samuel Anders|Anders]], Caprica-Six directly confronts the hypocrisy of the Cylons and ultimately rejects the false "truths" of her existence. She chooses instead to use her newfound celebrity to speak out against the Cylon's continuing war against humanity. Together with Boomer-Eight, she sets out to bring fundamental changes to Cylon society, their first action being to save the life of Anders. ([[Downloaded]]).

Just over a year after the human colonization of [[New Caprica]], Caprica-Six is one of the leaders (with [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer-Eight]] and a copy of [[Number Five]]) of the Cylon forces that meets now-President Baltar. In just a few words, Caprica-Six reveals to Baltar that she remembers precisely who he is, and how she missed him ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

Caprica and Baltar attempted to renew their relationship during the Cylon occupation of New Caprica, to the ridicule of some of the Cylons and the challenge of Number Three. The relationship was rocky, as Baltar's very survival rested on Caprica's feelings for him. Caprica was also the only Cylon who attempted to befriend Baltar's aides, such as [[Felix Gaeta]]. Her attempts were unsuccessful.

During the withdrawal of the Cylons from New Caprica, Caprica and Baltar tried to stop Three from detonating a nuclear bomb, and discovered [[Hera]] in the process.

Caprica appears to be regretting her decisions, as Baltar's status with the Cylons rests on the vote of the Sixes. ([[Collaborators]])

===Notes===
*According to the [[Battlestar Galactica (2005 Novel)|novelization]] of the [[Miniseries]] by [http://www.starrigger.net/ SF novelist Jeffrey A. Carver], the name that Baltar called Six before she revealed she was a Cylon during the attack was "Natasi." {{IPA|nə.ˈtɑ.si}} This name appears to be Polish in origin. Since this name has never been mentioned in the events of the screenplay or regular episodes, and as other names in the book, such as [[Cally]], do not match existing aired or official information, this name should be treated as a [[Battlestar Wiki:Separate continuity|separate continuity]].
*In an [http://community.tvguide.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700002601 interview], [[David Eick]] stated that there was never a canonical name which Baltar called Number Six while she was on Caprica, and "We always liked the idea that Baltar was a man of many tastes and that there's every likelihood that he never knew her name".
*Caprica-Six's outfit after her resurrection is considerably less elaborate than what she wore when working with Baltar, and she wears far less make-up, indicating that she only dressed so seductively for her mission.
*Caprica-Six's personality in "Downloaded" implies she might have shown humanity more compassion by, say, hailing them first, or landing ''outside'' the city, implying that her conversion of Cylon society isn't as complete as the [[Cavil]]s claimed or once was but has regressed in the interim year.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

User talk:Ragestorm

2006-07-26T15:17:03Z

Ragestorm:

User talk:Ragestorm

2006-07-26T15:14:29Z

Ragestorm:

Talk:Humanoid Cylon speculation/Archive4

2006-06-04T21:21:19Z

Ragestorm: /* The Doctor */

== Please aid in concision ==

This article combines the speculations of the Humano-Cylon and Gaius Baltar articles. As such, it is very wordy. I added the conditional summaries to avoid having to say "Ron Moore said this-and-that" in each item. Still, the article is really all over the place. We need to pare each suspect to the basics--bullets if necessary. Please base your information only on what has been mentioned or clearly stated. Lack of evidence ("Nothing says that the Cylons couldn't have been introduced 5 years before the attacks") is invalid to the information actually stated for both Valerii's and Six character--their history is unclear 2 years prior. Concision should clear up the unnecessary editorial here and bring it to basics. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:46, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:Agreed, it should have been edited down for the sake of concision, as other points are made elsewhere. Thank you for editing it down to size. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:48, 1 February 2006 (EST)

=="At least" 2 years==

No Cylon ever said out loud, "we've been infiltrating your society for two years"; we saw that Number Six was going out with baltar for 2 years, and then that Galactica-Boomer had been on Galactica for 2 years, then made the connection. However, although ''wide-scale'' infiltration apparently occured 2 years ago, we have no way of knowing if this is when infiltration of any kind actually began. Case in point; Ellen Tigh. A (deleted) scene said that she was married to Saul Tigh for 7 years. Now, I think it would be highly unlikely that the Cylons developed the humanoid Cylons 10 years after the Cylon War (30 years ago) or something, but the possibility that they were using them for the past 5-10 years seems within the realm of possibility to me. Again, there was never a definative "rule". --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 00:48, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:I tend to agree. Although circumstantial evidence points to a widespread infiltration campaign launching two years before the miniseries, we have no idea when the Cylons actually developed the ability to construct humanoid models. This, however, should be noted once at the head of the article, not on a per-candidate basis. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:10, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::The circumstantial evidence is all we can go on to keep from making stuff up out of the range of given information. It was Baltar, talking to Six, that gave the length of time, but I can't recall Valerii's comment or reference to it. Yes, we do need to avoid repetition; there's a lot of it. I don't believe this article is intending to address or imply that the humanoid Cylons were created 2 years prior, but begin to appear 2 years prior. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:49, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:::But that's really the point (not "when were they made"); when were they ''first'' used to infiltrate the Colonies? We really don't know; we only know that two units were inside for 2 years. BTW, it's in "The Farm" when Adama states that Boomer was on the ship for almost 2 years. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:35, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::::Katee Sackhoff mentioned in an interview that Starbuck had known Boomer for 7 years. That would mean 2 years on Galactica and 5 years of training before that, which makes sense as realisitically not even the Cylons could sneak an agent into the military without any training period. It's much harder than creating a civilian ID, and probably the reason why Boomer had to be a sleeper agent. --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:54, 2 March 2006 (EST)
:::::This could have just been subject to change. --00:43, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Billy's Entry ==
There is nothing of note in Billy's entry that could not be also said about Dualla, Tyrol, Cally, Racetrack, Kat, and other minor characters. It's unlikely that we can vouch for all character histories. It's their signficant, influential moments in an episode that appear questionable in intent, or their associations that are important. If there isn't a significant point about Billy's history that puts him at the same level of suspicion as Jammer or Bell, I move to strike this. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:06, 1 February 2006 (EST)
:Well, A) It's always the guy you least suspect, though that's more "paranoia" B) no one knows him, I mean even deckahands like Cally or Jammer were on the ship for at least a period of a few months, but *no one* other than Roslin met him before he first shows up on screen. And it would make sense to infiltrate a position with access to a cabinet member. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:37, 1 February 2006 (EST)
::Not disagreeing, but note that she was an extremely low-ranking cabinet member, and I doubt that the Cylons could have forseen either her "access" to Adar, or her assumption of the presidency after the attack. Besides, they already had Doral following her to Galactica's decommissioning ceremony. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:09, 1 February 2006 (EST)

Given that Billy is now dead, his plausibility as a Cylon is completely moot ''unless'' he is found resurrected in a future episode (non-flashback). Only a Cylon agent comes back, which would validate the claim. Also, given that there hasn't been any further points that significantly differentiate his character's suspicion criteria over any other lesser character, I'd rather strike this. Farago's point that Roslin was accompanied by Doral indicates that ''Galactica'' was monitored anyway. There's no real logic leap that can give the Keikeya suspicion enough grounding in comparison to the others. Technically, Roslin herself could be a Cylon with the same logic in that we don't know for sure where she's been in the last two years beyond what's said in the miniseries and "Ephiphanies." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:58, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:If Billy was a cylon, what would his purpose have been? I can't see TPTB deciding to reveal him as a cylon in a future episode because it wouldn't make any sense! He would have had to be a sleeper agent, but he didn't do anything! For almost 9 months! When you're asleep that long, you're practically dead. It should be struck (striked?) --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 16:59, 25 February 2006 (EST)
::He could have been the person who meet Six, before he boarded the plane and meet Roslin? Everyday I keep going over this, so I just had to get it out there now. :) --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 01:30, 26 March 2006 (CST)

:Part of the point of the Speculation page is that we're bringing up people who have been speculated as Cylons, and then we can actually ''disprove'' the posibility that they are Cylons; we do this, so that when visitors look at the list they can see why someone has been disproven or is still suspect; for example, we still keep Apollo's entry up even though there's frankly a snowball's chance on the sun that he is a Cylon. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 19:59, 26 March 2006 (CST)

== Apollo's Entry ==

Is it permissible to post a link to fanfiction? --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]]

: Permissible, possibly. But will it be helpful at all? The Lee-Is-A-Cylon thing is, as I understand it, perpetuated almost entirely by fanfiction. Except that a decent sized group of BSG (RDM) fans like this idea, we'd have thrown Lee off the list a long time ago because we can attest to the fact that he has a father. Linking the fiction would, I think, make it easy for a casual reading to misconstrue a case for Lee's being a Cylon as anything more than ver, very weak. Also... for ease of reading, please try to remember to sign your posts. Easy mistake to make. Just keep it in mind. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:46, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:Under ''no'' circumstances is it permissible; didn't the section on Apollo make the point that BattlestarWiki does not support such things? Honestly; 20 people make a Apollo-as-Cylon fanfic, then post links to it ''endlessly'' on the poorly-moderated official messageboards. This matter should be dropped. I am sorry, but on this matter there is no question. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:45, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Baltar's Entry ==

Can we rule out Baltar as a Cylon now that we've seen "Downloaded"? The whole thing with Six seeing BALTAR in her head seem to imply a certain duality... Six's Baltar is trying to push the human agenda, and Baltar's Six is trying to push the Cylon agenda.--[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 23:54, 24 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes, please. If Baltar were a Cylon, they couldn't have ''not'' mentioned it in "Downloaded". The whole line of inquiriy is ridiculous. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:00, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::Plus, numerous Cylon characters referred to him as human. I'm glad. I think it's a lot less interesting if he were a Cylon. I feel a bit reluctant to remove the whole thing though... I'll just add some information against it from Downloaded, and if anyone else feels it needs to go, they're welcome to delete it. --[[User:Mojorising1985|Mojorising1985]] 00:02, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::My inclination is to give the "Baltar is a Cylon" boosters a couple days to defend the material here before we chop it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:05, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::By all means, I feel that we should give them a few days to defend themselves. However, although Six hallucinates Baltar...it is clearly implied that no other Cylons knew about him, and Number Three even says that they both fell in love with humans.
My feelings on the matter, summed up into an easy to read list, are:
:*Baltar-Six is definately NOT the same person as the Number Six we see at the beginning of the Miniseries: Caprica-Six is someone else entirely. Did she load *a separate, backup copy* of herself into Baltar? Still a possibility.
:*Baltar-Six is not a hallucination, this has been proven in "Home, Part II", but no chip is visible on scans: I believe that she is an "Organic Chip", undetectable to scans, and not an "angel" as she claims.
:*Caprica-Six's hallucinated visions of Baltar on the other hand, are simply that: hallucinations, brought on by the apparent stress of killing the man she loved
:*As an inhuman robot not used to emotions or love, this had a profound affect on her; even disregarding Baltar, she is also feeling profound guilt over killing the human race, because after loving Baltar, she's come to think that a loving God would never want what the Cylons did.
:So he's not a Cylon; it's just a cool way of visually showing us that Number Six and the Cylons are so near-human that when placed under moral strain or something, they can hallucinate just like people can. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:50, 25 February 2006 (EST)

*I will go out on a limb, and propose that this is in fact conclusive proof that Baltar is not a Cylon, because the Cylons amongst themselves say that he is a human. I had been waiting until (my pet theory) Baltar impregnants Gina, but now I feel that this is grounds, '''Spencerian''', to remind you of our [[Talk:Gaius Baltar#A Friendly Wager, Spencerian|Gentlemanly wager]], that if Baltar were proved not to be a Cylon, you would support me in an Administrator election. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:53, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::Not only is the notion staking an RFA vote on a petty wager rather more than a little disquieting, I'm not even sure Spence ever agreed to those terms. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:12, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::Given that it was a back and forth conversation, to which he gave no refusal in reply, at the time at least, this gave the impression of tacit admission of the terms. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:45, 25 February 2006 (EST)

The wager is not changed, but you came very close to losing it in "Downloaded." Nor, however, has any proof been revealed in this episode that negates the possibility of Baltar as a Cylon. In fact, since ''only'' Baltar and Six have appeared as virtual beings, this actually ''reinforces,'' not diminishes the possibility since, to this episode, only a Cylon image has appeared this way. Since ''both'' Baltar and Six appear as virtual beings to each other, AND this phenomena is obviously not known or planned for by the Cylons, this doesn't change the nature of what Baltar is or is not (or, by extension, Six). The results from "Downloaded" DO invalidate some of the postulations in the Gaius-the-Cylon speculation, which I will note when I can. When humans and Cylons are in love, things get weird. Note that this hasn't happened with Boomer and Tyrol, but maybe, maybe, their love was not complete enough to create this strange exchange of "love echo." Oh, and for two beings to have the ''exact'' kind of "hallucination" suggests that it is not an hallucination at all. Something else is going on. Peter's point on Baltar's lack of note by other Cylons, however, does have a point, of which I will chew on before commenting further. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:But if Baltar was a Cylon, than why was Six-Baltar pushing for the "human agenda" and talking about how bad it was that millions of humans were killed? --[[User:Mojorising1985|mojorisng1985]] 18:04, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::It was her impression of Baltar (whom she thinks is human). (I think this whole line of speculation is absolutely ludicrous, by the way; but that question really doesn't change anything.) --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:21, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::Indeed, this is absolutely nuts. From an in-continuity perspective, the only way Baltar could ''possibly'' be a Cylon as of this episode would be if neither Caprica-Six, Galactica-Valerii, or Caprica-Three knew about it. Caprica-Three appeared to be very high-ranking - she apparently has the authority to have other cylons "boxed", and she knew that Baltar was still alive - something that was not public knowlege. From a dramatic perspective, it's completely impossible, and would invalidate the last two seasons worth of character development. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:51, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:"We're two heroes of the cylon, right? Two heroes with different perspectives on the war. Perspectives based by our love of two human beings". Cylons, talking amongst themselves, refer to Baltar as a human being in the episode "Downloaded". This alone is quite a good piece of evidence. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:46, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::OK, the damage done to Baltar's speculation is nearly complete, but I do not fully concede. I've clarified the information from "Downloaded" but added one important matter: Since the virtual Six and Baltar are not a Cylon creation, where in the world do they come from, and why doesn't Tyrol have a virtual Boomer? Until more information comes out, its my last shot in this salvo that still leaves a thread of doubt. We'll need to condense Baltar's entry later since many concepts there appear invalidated or contradictory to aired content. Oh, and just because the two Cylons believed they were in love with two humans doesn't make it patently true. What did Baltar think ''he'' was shagging before Six's revelation? The writers twist and turn, and I don't believe we're done with this, but yep, my ship is sinking, although not sunk, and I'm still armed with name-calling, a claim that you smell of elderberries, and flatulence in your general direction. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:34, 3 March 2006 (CST)

:In Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II when Baltar has sex with Gina, does that disprove once him being a cylon. I would think that anyone who would have doubts after Downloaded would have to accept the fact that Baltar's spine did not turn red and therefore he can't be a cylon. Ronald D. Moore himself said in the commentary in the mini-series that the Humano-Cylon spines all turn red. Shouldn't we take him off of the speculated Humano-Cylon agent list?--Zareck Rocks 16:45, 12 March 2006 (CST)

== Additional Qualifier for Speculation? ==

"According to Ron D. Moore, the twelve humanoid models are based on human behavior and personality archetypes distilled into twelve varieties."

It would seem, then, that any new Cylon agents will also need to have reasonably archetypal personalities that are notably different from known agents.
--[[User:Mckooper|Mckooper]] 14:24, 6 March 2006 (CST)
:Very true. Good thinking. Personally I find Billy to be too much like Doral.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:31, 6 March (EST)

:: This is my main arguement against Ellen Tigh being a Cylon. She's the same, archetypally, as Six, basically: The attractive, sexually agressive blonde. I'm waiting for model, let's say, Number 12: The Nerd. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:30, 7 March 2006 (CST)

== Lay Down Your Burdens ==

Wouldn't the Season Finale exonerate Ellen, the Adamas and Gaeta? There were dozens of Centurions marching through that city. Surely if Ellen were a Cylon, she would have simply joined in the parade as a matter of pride? The Adamas wouldn't have jumped away of either of them were Cylons. And if Gaeta were a Cylon, wouldn't he have simply dropped the charade when he told Baltar they had arrived? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 11:59, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:Even in German-occupied France in World War II, the Gestapo still had spies pretending to be French to try to infiltrate any resistance. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:07, 11 March 2006 (CST)
::Yes, and we have no particular reason to believe that conquering New Caprica is the end goal for the Cylons; this may only be a push to guide them in a different direction, in which the hidden agents still have a role to play. That said, I do wonder what new human models we'll see on New Caprica. My guess is that at least one will be of the same type as someone in Adama's fleet. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 13:11, 11 March 2006 (CST)
:They may be sleeper agents anyway, and their programming didn't tell them to "wake up"[[User:Mrxerox|MrXerox]] 1:38 19 March 2006 (CST)

== The Chief? ==

What about the chief? Should someone add something for him? Cavil... who was later revealed to be a Cylon, said that he hadn't seen him at any of the cylon parties, the same thing six said about doral. Plus, he kept on wondering why Tyrol couldn't see what was "right in front of his face". And he said "I'm not a Cylon", just like Boomer did in the season 1 finale. It might at least be a possibility. Finally, Cally's pregnancy might be an attempt at creating something similar to Helo/Boomer's child, but with the gender reversed... to see if a Cylon could impregnate a human female. Indeed, that was my intital thought when I accidentally stumbled across pictures of Cally pregnant.

Nah, Tyrol can't be a Cylon. That doesn't fit the Cylon M.O. of trying to make a baby. Remember that Tyrol was with Sharon before, and that they were planing to "Muster out at the end of their service," and get married and have kids, ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). --[[User:FIDS|FIDS]] 12:07, 12 March 2006 (CST)

if the chief were a Cylon, Three wouldn't have been as worried about Galactica-Sharon in "Downloaded." She would have just shown her another Tyrol copy. It's essentially the same reason Baltar can't be a Cylon: they may try to hide it from the humans, but why hide it from other Cylons? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:27, 12 March 2006 (EST)

:I don't believe Tyrol to be a Cylon, but (A) Two sleeper agents '''would''' plan on mustering out and getting married, not knowing the attack was coming, and (B) What good would showing her another Tyrol do? He wouldn't be Tyrol. If anything it would make things worse for Sharon.
:Can we come up with some better disqualifing facts?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:47, 23 March 2006 (EST)
::Cylons have demonstrated great interest in procreation with humans, and absolutely none with other Cylons. It fits with what we know of the Cylon plan for Sharon to want to seduce a human. If Tyrol were a Cylon, it would force us to violate Occam's razor on this count. Also, like the suggestion that Baltar might be a Cylon, this demands that one of the twelve models existance has been ekpt secret from the Cylons on Caprica, which seems silly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:39, 23 March 2006 (CST)
::You guys are forgetting that the 7 Cylon models we know as of now, are the significant seven, and they have no clue on who the final five Cylon models are. ([[User:Cloud02|Cloud02]] 13:40, 2 June 2006 (CDT))
:::A) we're not sure about that info quite yet B ) I think there are limits to it. I mean, I think what Grace meant was "the Cylon on New Caprica have been programmed to not know who the other 5 are so they don't give it away involuntarily to the humans", but logically the ones on CAPRICA would not have any such restriction (they didn't run into the same 7 Cylons there). That's why I'm not really basing anything on her comments, until we get more info later. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 13:47, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

==Analysis==

I think it would be good if we formated this with a case for and case against section, that is, like in the Adama sections, have the first section say "this is why we initially suspected him", but then say at the end "this other event (i.e. Cylons amongst themselves referring to a character as human)", makes it impossible for this character to be a Cylon.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 15:45, 4 April 2006 (CDT)

: Makes sense to me... --[[User:Day|Day]] <sup>([[User talk:Day|talk]])</sup> 22:46, 4 April 2006 (CDT)

==Baltar as Cylon Zero==

I'm sorry, but this part of it all is just too much, using questionable "facts" to prove a more questionable theory. It just doesn't make sense to add it, since there isn't even any Cylon Zero mentioned --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 12:37 19 April 2006

:After reading this, I find a few tenuous snippets of intriguing possibility on the original premise. The bulk of the section that tries to support the premise, however, is pure speculation, which I will cull, as well as retitling the section more germanely. I believe I can add or reinforce the central thought. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:58, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::Rewritten. I believe the concepts are more digestable, do not rehash existing points (the page is getting long, anyway), and points to the new crux of what the heck ARE the virtual Six and Baltar and how in the heck does Baltar seem to work "God's" work in those season 1 episodes. That's something I'm sure will haunt him (and the other characters) later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:34, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Not a single piece of it was acceptable, I am sorry, but we cannot coddle this. I have removed it entirely. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 13:59, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::::I agree. Sorry, Spence. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:11, 19 April 2006 (CDT)

::::Not a problem: was trying to salvage rather than obliterate an addition. I had that first reaction myself. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 20 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::Thank you Peter: sometimes I worry that I act hastily, but often we get new users who jump on and say their own pet theories, and as an encyclopedia we cannot tolerate hundreds of people's pet theories, just prevailing ones: i.e. I disagree with "could Baltar be one of the 12 Cylon models?" but enough people on messageboards suggest it that I felt it had merit to stay (as speculation) here, and then to note as the series wore on that it has been (by and large) disproven by the evidence. But that guy saying "hmm, those nukes must have been detonated by suicide bombers" when you SEE basestars in orbit nuking the planet, is sillyness. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 14:16, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::If it were up to me, I'd completely eliminate Ellen, Lee, Bill and Gaius from that list. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:06, 19 April 2006
:::::::No. It helps people to show who couldn't be a Cylon, so they won't add it. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 15:35, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::::Could we just lay out the (very conclusive) evidence against their being cylons, and dispense with any further discussion on the topic? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:43, 19 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::::::Maybe. But then, would we have EVER thought we'd see Starbuck give Tigh a HUG? Anything is possible with RDM and especially in light of the end of Season 2. If anything, keeping the speculation and its conclusions there there prevents someone from putting it back with rehashed items. We should note the high unlikelihood as per the article's purpose in each section. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:42, 20 April 2006 (CDT)

==Restructuring==
I'm revising this article. I'm spent a lot of time sifting through messageboard speculation, and I'm going to list other characters: again, we shouldn't just list "people who might be Cylons", but for other people, such as say, Adama, who ''have'' "reason" to be suspected of being a Cylon, to help out readers trying to figure out who's a Cylon we should list how sucha person might be suspected of being a Cylon, but also, that this possibility has been disproven. I'm putting little bolded tags onto the bottom of each one, summarizing the actual chance such a person has of being a Cylon after reading the entire article: that is, summary of the William Adama article: "'''Possibility of being a Cylon: None'''". Meanwhile, the "point" of the entire Ellen Tigh article could be summed up as "well she could conceivably be a Cylon and is a shifty character but could also not be and RDM isn't pushing it too hard", so "'''Possibility of being a Cylon: Moderate"'''. If you want to change someone's odds of being a Cylon, just do so and if there's any arguement over the particulars of it, we can debate the merits on this Discussion page. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 21:37, 30 May 2006 (CDT)
:Just to elaborate: so many times on messageboards I see people saying "well maybe Anders is a Cylon", or "maybe Roslin's a Cylon", that I really want to just list here "Roslin: can't be a Cylon because...etc"; just round out the full regular cast, plus anyone who's non-Cylonness has been confirmed. Just a guide to help people.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 22:03, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

:: That doesn't sound unreasonable. I also like the idea of a little summary tag for each person so that, if you only wanted to read (dis)proofs, you could skip the ones that have any change besides "none". I'm interested to see how this turns out. --[[User:Day|Day]] <sup>([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]])</sup> 22:51, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

:: I've been reading this page as you do it. Make sure you cite the Episode. I already marked something under Dullea because I never seen or saw something that provved she acually married Lee Adama. {{tl|citation needed}}. Also I like to point out that your doing the same thing as the message boards, just listing character. At this point, you can list every character at this point and say they are a potiential Cylon. Maybe add something to the {{tl|Character Data}} template with their "cylon" chances if they do exist, but because there is ltitle "citation" it should not appear on this page. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 23:25, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

== Chief and Cally + Company ==

We already establish from LDYB II that these three can not be Cylons. Why were they added? In this discussion (above) it proves this point. Reason to put Cain? She's been around for 20 years and already has a history from being an Admiral? This makes no sence to be placed on this page. Tom? Need I say more. "''Due to being such a publicly known figure for so Tory Foster, Cheif, Helena Cain, Tom Zarek, Kara Thrace, and Cally and decades before the Cylon Attack, Zarek could not be a Cylon.''" Kara Thrace? Please... alot of these should be removed.

For reason I should this is the list that should be removed (and update this list if you think it should be removed also. '''This is not a Keep list.'''):

*Laura Roslin
*Tory Foster
*Cheif
*Helena Cain
*Tom Zarek
*Kara Thrace
*Cally
*Helo (Only has one entry? Why is it here?)

--[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 23:36, 30 May 2006 (CDT)

A) I did this in a hurry, and I'm not done B) because I'm leaving for a convention in NYC Ron Moore and the cast are going to C)I want the people DEFINATELY DISPROVEN to be on the list as well, or at least a shorter subheader going "these people can't be CYlons, here's why" so people can see that they have been disproven (meanwhile, people like, Captain Kelly we know so little about that we don't suspect them, nor has their innocence been proven, or like Kat). ****Battlestar Galactica Magazine did a similar "who is the main cast is a Cylon?" list but it was based on their BEHAVIOR, which as we all know can be implanted, so I wanted to do a fuller list, which explains how these people can't be Cylons. **I'll get to work on this later. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 06:13, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:Creating a page to proove to RDM and cast is not a reason to expand this page Merv. Maybe these should be put in a new page called [[Human speculation]]. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 06:29, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

::I do not understand what you just said: I didn't "create" a page this thing has been here for like a year: as I already said, I listed the other people in order to list the reasons that dispel why some fan reading our site might think they're a Cylon, because the magazine had an article which (wrongly, I felt) kind of included them in the speculation. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 07:25, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
:::Then where is the citation. I have to say, in most case you say you now where eerything is coming from, but forget to cite where this was posted. If this is the case, there should be a footnoote for everyone of the ones that came from the magazine, page number and all. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 07:28, 31 May 2006 (CDT)
::::He's not quoting the article in this case (correct me if I'm wrong), but using it as precedent for the type of article. Also, the minute we yank a "Cylon candidate" (no matter how unlikely) somebody will come along and add them back because they believe that they might be a Cylon. Having concise, cited, definitive arguments against their being Cylons is good inoculation against a larger, speculative theory about the possibility of them being Cylons. This article has served as an excellent "containment area" to house some of the more "message board style" argument and speculation, and it has come a long way towards being well cited since its original inception. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:46, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:::::I concur with SV. We should leave ALL entries placed here, but we can concise the entries that are highly unlikely of being an agent to its root reason, and leave arguments for characters with stronger suspicions for later detail. We need to be mindful of this article's size. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:13, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

:::::: Are there any points, specifically, Shane that you see needing citation (besides the rather tangental note about whether Apollo and Dee are married now)? If so, please note them here... Maybe some of us happen to know where the information came from off the top of our head. Maybe not, but then, at least, we could all be in on this, rather than you vaguely requesting more citations from Merv, who, as he mentioned, will be out of town for a while soon. --[[User:Day|Day]] <sup>([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]])</sup> 00:07, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

Hey, I'm back for an hour or two: I think this turned out well with the stuff you guys touched up. Yeah, I did this in a hurry and need to put in citations and stuff (the APollo+Dualla citation is on the Dualla and Apollo bio pages, but I'll add it in plus other stuff as needed). I'll be tinkering with this....--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 13:26, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

== The Doctor ==

Im surprised to see that no one has suggested him. He knows almost everything there is to know about the insides of the fleet, and he knows about the cylon baby. ([[User:Cloud02|Cloud02]] 13:54, 2 June 2006 (CDT))
:You could if you want but we have to list the why's and whatfor's. I think he's never done anything overtly suspicious, and thus falls into the same category as like, Captain Kelly and 3 dozen other named characters on the show like Racetrack; we know so little about them that there is no specific reason to suspect them. I only listed the main cast and some of the bigger recurring characters just because they're the most frequent names.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 14:22, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

::Actually, someone did suggest it (I say "suggest", he vehemently insisted) Cottle for a Cylon on the Doc's talk page. The general opinion of those in the discussion was that every viable argument for Cottle (doesn't complain about treating a Cylon, is sympathetic to said Cylon, and opposed separating Hera from her mother) more likely stems from him being a doctor than being an agent. --[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 16:21, 4 June 2006 (CDT)

Gaius Baltar

2006-04-09T20:42:19Z

Ragestorm: fixed up the Presidency section

:''This page discusses the unwitting betrayer of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. For information on the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] character that intentionally betrays the [[The Twelve Colonies (TOS)|Twelve Colonies of Man]], see [[Baltar (TOS)|Baltar]].''

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Gaius Baltar promo.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname= Gaius Baltar
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status= Single, in a relationship with a [[Cylon-Related_Hallucinations#Baltar.27s_Internal_Six|hallucination of Number Six]]. Previously involved with [[Caprica-Six|the real Number Six]] and [[Gina]].
|role= President of [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|the Twelve Colonies]]
|rank=
|actor= [[James Callis]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}
__TOC__

== Background ==

Dr. '''Gaius Baltar''' was formerly a lead defense systems developer working for the [[Colonial Ministry of Defense]] and was widely considered a genius and celebrity throughout [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|the Twelve Colonies]]. Baltar came to prominence as a computer technology designer having won three [[Magnate Prize]]s. Baltar was born on [[The_Twelve_Colonies_(RDM)#Sagittaron |Sagittaron]] and attracted to [[The_Twelve_Colonies_(RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] by the Defense Ministry{{ref|birthplace}}. He networks with others well, and became personal friends with President [[Adar (RDM)|Adar]]. Baltar becomes responsible for the design of the critical [[Command Navigation Program]] (CNP) used throughout the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Baltar's scientific prowess seems strongest in the medical and biological fields. As a result of his lesser (although still advanced) computer programming skills, he seeks the help (and as a byproduct, the affections of) a young woman named [[Number Six|Natasi]] to aid him with the CNP.

Elegantly dressed and aesthetically handsome, with the affected humility of the truly arrogant, Baltar is nonetheless a deeply flawed person and almost pathologically narcissist. Beneath his outstanding abilities lurks a dramatic weakness of character. Self-absorbed, sly, guileful, lecherous and utterly dedicated to his own self-preservation, Baltar has carried on a two-year affair with Natasi-- even to the extent of using code she herself wrote to overcome shortfalls in his CNP -- and thus allows her unrestricted access to some of the most sensitive systems of the Colonial defenses.

Baltar is currently President of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], succeeding President [[Laura Roslin]].

== [[Cylon Attack]] ==
[[image:Mini-Baltar_Six.jpg|thumb|left|300px|[[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six|Number Six]] kissing in the [[Miniseries]]. (C. SciFi Channel)]]
When the Cylons launch their attack, Baltar becomes horrified to learn that his "corporate spy" lover is in fact a new type of Cylon -- a [[Cylon agent|Cylon in human form]], able to mimic human beings down to the smallest detail -- and that she altered his CNP as a gateway to make all integrated Colonial computers and defense systems vulnerable to a Cylon virus that subverts their command and control systems.

Appalled by the fact that his sexual folly has led to the virtual holocaust of humanity, Baltar is nevertheless determined not only to survive but also avoid having his unintended treachery revealed.

Rescued on Caprica following the forced-landing of a Colonial [[Raptor]] -- at the cost of [[Karl Agathon|one of the crew staying behind]] ([[Miniseries]]) -- he is pleased to find himself treated with the same esteem he enjoyed back on Caprica. His only problem is that [[Number Six]], his former "lover" -- herself ostensibly destroyed in the shock wave of a nuclear blast -- now appears to him in visions, and he cannot be sure whether this is a result of his own guilt at his actions or whether -- as she initially claims -- she is part of a chip that has been implanted in his brain{{ref|chip}}.

Shortly after Baltar's arrival on ''Galactica'', Commander [[William Adama]] learns that Cylons can mimic human form, and Baltar is put to work trying to devise a means of detecting these humanoid Cylons. By an educated guess (and an apparent attempt to distract those who suspected him of treachery), he exposes [[Aaron Doral]] -- a PR executive who co-ordinated the media coverage of ''Galactica's'' decommissioning -- as a Cylon agent ([[Miniseries]]), using little more than invented [[technobabble]] to convince [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]]. Despite his protestations of innocence, Doral is marooned at [[Ragnar Anchorage]], but soon a team of Cylon agents appear to pick up the stranded Doral. Baltar's educated guess was correct--Doral was indeed a Cylon agent.

Due to his unique abilities, Baltar is charged with turning his initial "[[Cylon detector]]" into a working machine capable of screening everyone in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]. While he at first balks at this task, events such as the sabotaging of ''Galactica's'' water reserves ([[Water]]) force him into a position where he can no longer procrastinate over the detector -- despite his fear that such a device might somehow expose him as the original traitor among humans. Gaining aid from a most unusual source -- his "virtual" Six ([[Bastille Day]]), who gets him to request a nuclear warhead for the detector -- Baltar eventually develops a genuine detector; which functions by exposing cell samples to the warhead's radiation, because it has already been demonstrated ([[Miniseries]]) that Cylons are more susceptible to certain kinds of radiation. This, together with his survival of a foiled attempt to expose him as a traitor ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]), firmly establishes his credentials within the Fleet's hierarchy.

With this new-found trust, and despite his willingness to deliberately conceal vital information, such as [[Sharon Valerii#"Boomer" Valerii|Lieutenant Valerii's]] true status as a [[Cylon agent]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]), Baltar willing enters the realm of political leadership, first as the Representative for [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] on the [[Quorum of Twelve]], and then as the newly-elected Vice President of the Colonies ([[Colonial Day]]).

== Cylon Manipulations ==

The Cylons commenced their direct manipulations of Baltar some two years prior to the attack on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], by bringing him into contact with their agent, [[Number Six]], who started a torrid affair with him while at the same time using him to access vital Colonial command and control systems within the Ministry of Defense ([[Miniseries]]).

This manipulation continues even after the Doctor leaves Caprica behind, with Six appearing to him in sensory perceptions, possibly through an implant in his brain ([[Miniseries]]) or perhaps even through a series of psychotic hallucinations as the doctor struggles to reconcile his guilt and his desire of self-preservation.

Regardless of the cause of her appearances, Six continues to help and hinder Baltar, gradually drawing him to a point of near-open acceptance and participation in Cylon plans and activities ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). The majority of this manipulation has been through religious intrigue, linked to physical threats to Baltar's well-being or that of other humans. These manipulations include:

* Using the threat of Baltar's former colleague, Dr. [[Amorak]], attempting to contact [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] with information on a "traitor" within Colonial circles -- and only "removing" this threat once Baltar has "repented of his sins" ([[33]])
* Using the threat of direct accusation (in the form of "[[Shelly Godfrey]]") coupled with "photographic evidence" -- and only "removing" this threat once Baltar has "accepted" [[God]] into his life ([[Six Degrees of Separation]])
[[image:Scattered-Baltar_Six.jpg|thumb|[[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Number Six]] seeing "the shape of things to come" in "[[Scattered]]". (C. Universal Studios)]]
Baltar's near-acquiescence to the [[God|Cylon religion]] comes when he goes through a process similar to the [[wikipedia:Evangelicalism|evangelical Christian]] belief in "rebirth" through adult baptism. In this, the new believer in the Christian faith is baptized (generally through full immersion in water), symbolizing the "death" of the "old" self and "birth" of the "new" Christian self. In "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", Baltar apparently undergoes "death" at the hands of his inner Six when she "breaks" his neck -- and is "reborn" in his real life as the "instrument of God", able to point-out precisely where Colonial forces must strike in order to eliminate the Cylon base preventing them from accessing supplies of [[Tylium|tylium]] ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

This act leaves Baltar ripe for the final revelation of his role within Cylon expectations, when "the future" is revealed to him by Six on [[Kobol]], in the form of the first of "God's new generation of children" ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Baltar is not particularly pleased by this, especially when he learns that he is to be the father and that the mother will be Six ([[Scattered]]). Despite this, when he believes Commander Adama is trying to kill the child in one of his dreams, he tries to stop this ([[Valley of Darkness]]).

==Survival on Kobol==
[[Image:Baltarixvalleydarkness.jpg|Number Six showing Baltar the clearing filled with human bones, telling him they were from human sacrifices.|thumb]]
While stranded on Kobol, Baltar "awoke" in a clearing filled with human bones. Number Six tells him the bones were from human sacrifices, and that all of the myths about the gods of Kobol and the paradise on Kobol were a lie to hide the true brutality of man, which increases Baltar's cynical opinion of humanity. Number Six also warns that one of the survivors of Baltar's crash would turn against the others.

The Raptor crash survivors, consisting of Baltar, Chief [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Cally]], [[Seelix]], and ranking crew member [[Crashdown]], a lieutenant, are faced with [[Cylon Centurion]]s building a missile battery that will destroy any rescue ships trying to save them. Crashdown, obsessed with success after the deaths of [[Tarn]] and [[Socinus]], orders the team to make a suicidal attack on the Cylon position. Baltar has never fired a weapon in his life and feels it could not be done. Due to the fact that he was the only non-military member of the survivors, he insists that they put it to a vote before Tyrol shouts him down to follow the chain of command.

On starting the attack, Cally freezes in terror, unable to create the needed diversion. Crashdown points his gun at her head and threatens to kill her if she does not obey the order. Immediately, Tyrol levels his gun at Crashdown. A tense standoff ensues. Just as Crashdown is about to fire, Baltar shoots him in the back, killing him instantly{{ref|killing}}. The group successfully carries out the alternate plan of attacking the Cylon's [[DRADIS]] dish, and are rescued by the Raptors. Baltar tells the [[SAR]] team that Crashdown died a hero in the fight, and Tyrol reluctantly corroborates his story ([[Fragged]]).

==Return to ''Galactica''==

Back on ''Galactica'', Baltar insists that if Roslin's presidency was terminated, as Vice President he should then succeed her in command, but Col. Tigh dismisses the notion because he has instituted martial law in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]. Later, Cally blackmails Baltar into making it a priority to prove that Chief Tyrol is not a Cylon, as Col. Tigh suspects, or Cally would reveal to all that it was really Baltar that killed Crashdown. Baltar pushes Cally against the wall and lectures her sternly, but she refuses to back down, telling him to "help the Chief [by] help[ing] [him]self." Incensed at this ingratitude, Baltar heads to the [[brig]] to take a blood sample from Tyrol, located in the same cell as [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]], but actually injects him with a toxin that will kill him in seconds without an antidote. Baltar uses Tyrol's importance to Boomer to coerce the panicked Cylon agent to disclose how many remaining humanoid Cylons are hiding in the Fleet. He gambles that, even if Valerii was programmed to think she was human, on a subconscious level she truly ''would'' know the answer as a Cylon operative. With time running out, she shouts out "Eight!" Baltar revives Tyrol. Baltar plans to perform a series of experiments on Boomer, but she is soon killed by Cally ([[Resistance]]).
[[image:brainscan.jpg|Baltar recieves his brain scan from Dr. Cottle, as Six watches on in amusement.|thumb]]
Some time later, as Commander Adama attempts to retrieve President Roslin and reunite the Fleet, Baltar yells at his internal Number Six for her increasingly ridiculous random changes in appearance, even questioning her actual existence. She responds by simplifying her appearance and attitude and told him that he truly had gone crazy, claiming there is no "computer chip" in his head with her personality, and that she is indeed a hallucination brought on by his guilt-ridden subconscious. Baltar has a brain scan performed in [[sickbay]] by Dr. [[Cottle]] (despite ''interference'' from Six), which confirms no "foreign objects" are present in his head. Baltar is ready to believe that he is truly insane when he hears [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica-Sharon]] discuss Valerii's pregnancy with a Cylon/Human hybrid child from his observation room. Six told Baltar earlier that "their child" would be born in that cell, and this leads Baltar to realize that Six ''must'' be real because his subconscious couldn't have known that. Number Six says that she is indeed real and not a hallucination. While she still denies the presence of a chip in Baltar's head, she claims to be "an angel of God sent here to protect [Baltar]". Six tells Baltar that by "their" child she is referring to Caprica-Valerii's biological child: Six considers herself the mother, and Baltar the father ([[Home, Part II]]).

When [[D'anna Biers]] films a documentary about life aboard ''Galactica'', Six urges Baltar to give an interview to try to win people over to thinking that he should be running the Fleet. Baltar performs badly as he begins his interview but, fortunately, his interview is interrupted by a Cylon attack that Biers chooses to film instead ([[Final Cut]]).

Baltar aids in trying to overcome the Cylon [[logic bomb]] which devastates ''Galactica's'' [[computers]]. Tigh's dislike of Baltar's involvement in this problem makes the scientist edgy enough to retort, "I'm sorry. Do you want to survive this one or not, Colonel?" ([[Flight of the Phoenix]])
[[image:baltargina.jpg|Baltar with Gina, the Cyclon prisoner from ''Pegasus''.|thumb]]

==Arrival of ''Pegasus''==

When battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' reunites with the Fleet, Commander Adama requests that Baltar examine ''Pegasus' '' own Cylon prisoner to see what information he could glean from it. Upon arrival in the ''Pegasus'' brig, Baltar is horrified to discover the Cylon was a terribly abused and tortured copy of Number Six named "[[Gina]]". Baltar vows to help her in any way he could, and begins by having her restraints removed and bringing food to her. The inhumane treatment of Gina by the ''Pegasus'' crew likely makes Gaius more critical of humanity's worth ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

Over the course of his examination of Gina, he uncovers both her wish to die and the secret of the Cylon [[Resurrection Ship]]. He passes this information to Adama and [[Helena Cain|Admiral Helena Cain]], who develop an [[Attack on the Resurrection Ship|operation to destroy it]] ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]).

Baltar continues to spend time with Gina, growing closer to her despite Six's pleas to the contrary and eventually helps Gina escape from the brig. He tells Gina that he can hide her, and also that he loves her. Gina goes on to kill Cain and escapes from the ''Pegasus'' through unexplained means, although it is probable that Baltar had something to do with it ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

==Serving Everyone, but No One==

To many others, Dr. Baltar's personality appears to exhibit more odd behavior than what may be considered the expected eccentricity of a genius. Crewmembers on ''Galactica'' find him mumbling with himself or discovering him in places they do not expect, such as aboard battlestar ''Pegasus'' to see its new commander, [[Jack Fisk]]. Torn between the "flesh and blood" copy of the [[Number Six]] copy, Gina, the demands of his internal Number Six, and his continuing attempt to cover his own multiple duplicities, Baltar becomes more aggressive and confrontational. With President Roslin's advice to abort the Cylon-hybrid fetus of the incarcerated [[Sharon Valerii]], Baltar reacts to defend it as if it were his own child (as does his internal Six, who threatens him on the problem). Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] admonishes Baltar, telling him that, on Roslin's death, he will become President and that he needs to behave like one.

Desperate to save Valerii's fetus, Baltar reviews Dr. [[Cottle]]'s medical tests and performs experiments of his own, learning a striking revelation: the blood of the fetus can destroy cancer and repair its damage to human tissue. With Admiral Adama's permission, he injects the dying President Roslin with some of the fetal blood, which works miraculously, saving both Roslin and Valerii's child by circumstance.

After saving Roslin's life, Baltar reads the letter given to him in the event of her death, in which she says he lacks compassion and asks him to open his heart if he becomes president. Furious, and goaded on by Six who tells him that Roslin doesn't trust him, Baltar delivers the nuclear warhead used for the Cylon detector to Gina and her militant [[Demand Peace]] movement. ([[Epiphanies]]).

Baltar keeps his [[fumarello]] supply fresh by trading in the [[black market (organization)|black market]] through new ''Pegasus'' Commander [[Jack Fisk]]. Not realizing that Fisk had been murdered, the scientist visits Fisk's quarters, only to meet Captain [[Lee Adama]], who has starten an investigation on the black market and Fisk's murder. Baltar truthfully tells Adama that he knows nothing of Fisk's murder, but Adama correctly deduces Baltar's association with Fisk and the black market since the "Caprica Imperials" fumarellos are a known favorite of Baltar's.

Baltar is also unaware that his involvement in the destruction of the Colonies is partially revealed. In ''Galactica's'' sickbay, Laura Roslin recalled those final days on Caprica, and remembered Baltar in the company of a woman on Caprica who she knows now is a [[Number Six|Cylon agent]]. Baltar is summoned to ''[[Colonial One]]'', where Roslin offers him, without explanation, the chance to resign from the Vice Presidency to return to his studies. Baltar becomes immediately suspicious (and frightened) in Roslin's succinct and direct vote of no-confidence in her vice president. Realizing that the Vice Presidency now has greater importance (if nothing other than to save his own hide), Baltar turns down what Roslin calls a "one-time offer" to save himself as he saved Roslin on her
deathbed ([[Black Market]]).

== Gaius as President ==

Dr. Baltar decided (with no small influence from Six and [[Tom Zarek]]) run for President in the coming Colonial Elections. ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

Roslin is declared the winner of the elections, but is caught by Adama for manipulating the tally, and Gaius is declared president. Though Baltar demanded an investigation initially, he backed down under Adama's furious glare. Gaius ordered the Fleet to return to the marginally habitable planet [[New Caprica]] seconds after his inauguration. Baltar showed incompetency as president a few days later, when he ordered the colonization of the planet instead of investigation into the destruction of Cloud Nine and two other ships (he correctly guessed that the conflagration was started by Gina). When on New Caprica, he indulges in women and it would seem the public is not pleased with how he runs his office. The Cylons find the planet, which prompts the return of the dormant Internal-Six, who observes it in "judgement day" at last. Copies of [[Number Six|Six]], [[Number Five|Five]], and [[Number Eight|Eight]] meet with Baltar and his cabinet, recommending surrender. Gaius didn't realize at the time that the Six was in fact Caprica-Six, the woman he had a relationship with prior to the attack. The Cylon agents (or leaders, as the case may be) claim that they found the planet by accident, due to trace radiation from a nuclear explosion; the one caused by by the bomb Gaius dontated to [[Gina]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

== Speculation: The Real Baltar? ==

There is speculation that Gaius Baltar could be a Cylon agent himself. See the [[Cylon agent speculation#Gaius Baltar?|Cylon Speculation]] article for the pros and cons of this theory.

==Notes==

#{{note|chip}}The idea that Six is an actual chip in Baltar's head was dismissed by Dr. [[Cottle]]'s image scan of Baltar's head. See [[Gaius Baltar#Speculation: The Real Baltar?|the section on alternate reasons for Six's existence]] for more.
#{{note|killing}}The act of killing Crashdown appears to have led to a dramatic change in Baltar's attitude toward hurting anyone directly. When Cally tries to blackmail him after they return from Kobol, Baltar is somewhat rough with her. When he visits Tyrol and Boomer in the brig, he does not hesitate to inject Tyrol with fatal drugs to blackmail Boomer into giving Cylon secrets. Baltar's humanitarian acts to the Six copy known as Gina also suggests Baltar's attitude in the care of Cylons is further changing. More and more, Baltar appears to prefer direct intervention and is less cowardly in his attitude.
#{{note|birthplace}} Baltar's planet of birth and recruitment by the Colonial Defense Ministry to Caprica are according to SkyOne. However, information from SkyOne may not be canonical at all.

Here is SkyOne's summary of Baltar:

:''Scientific genuis Gaius is one of the greatest minds humanity has to offer. Unfortunately, his abundance of intellect is counterbalanced by a complete lack of ethics. His moral weakness allows the Cylons to infiltrate and neutralize the defences of the 12 Colonies.''

:''Gaius Baltar was born on a farm on the colony of Sagittaron.''

:''His family had worked the land for three generations and even as a boy, Gaius hated farm life. Fortunately, his parents owned a large and sprawling agri-business controlling millions of acres across the planet; Gaius found a different use for farm life and used it to study science and maths.''

:''Gaius became more than a good student - he was a genuis at 14.''

:''By the age of 21 he had his first doctorate under his belt. Soon he was being hotly pursued by every major university to set up a research lab.''

:''Gaius' speciality was theoretical physics, but his true passion was computer science. He saw the prevailing anti-technological edicts as short-sighted, and believed in advancing human technology that the Cylons could not infiltrate.''

:''Because of his achievements, Gaius' help was needed by the Defence Ministry on top-secret projects. Gaius soon found himself the keeper of secrets, a position that flattered his already impressive ego.''

:''Still it wasn't enough; he hungered for a chance to work on a true artificial intelligence project. He then meets a smart and beautiful woman who seemed to understand him in a way no other had. She shared his passion of A.I. systems. The relationship lasted for two years and during this time she provided him with new and innovative ideas. Only one thing was missing; Gaius could not find out anything about her. Was it the perfect relationship he once thought it was?''

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown)''|title=Caprican delegate to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]|after=''(unknown)''}}
{{succession box (spoiler-aft)|before=''(unknown)''|title=[[Government|Vice-President of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol]]|after=[[Tom Zarek]]}}
{{succession box|before=[[Laura Roslin]]|title=[[Government|President of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol]]|after=Incumbent}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Baltar, Gaius]]
[[Category:Characters|Baltar, Gaius]]
[[Category:RDM|Baltar, Gaius]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Baltar, Gaius]]

Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)

2006-04-08T19:17:42Z

Ragestorm: /* The Lords of Kobol */ fixed link

{{Twelve Colonies Series}}
The religion of the Twelve Colonies, which the various characters of Battlestar Galactica practice to greater or lesser extent, is a polytheistic faith shared with real-life [[Wikipedia:Greek mythology|Greek mythology]], with a strong emphasis on the philosophy of [[Wikipedia:Eternal return|eternal return]].

==Origin==
There is substantial circumstantial evidence that people of Kobol originated on [[Earth]], and it is also known that one of the thirteen tribes later returned there. The similarity in beliefs of the Colonials and the ancient Greeks is probably not coincidental, although it is not yet clear which gave rise to the other. See [[History of the Twelve Colonies]] and [[Sacred Scrolls]] for a more detailed analysis.

In the burial scene of the [[Miniseries]], Adama states "Life here began out there," reminding the assembly that this was the first line of the sacred scrolls, told to them by the Lords Of Kobol uncounted centuries ago.

==Belief==

===The Lords of Kobol===

Colonial religion is centered on the Lords of Kobol, analogous to the [[Greek Gods]]. So far within the series, a total of six Lords of Kobol have been explicitly identified:

* [[Zeus]] - He was the father of the gods. [[Tom Zarek]] has twice referred to [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] as "Zeus" ([[Bastille Day]], [[The Farm]]).
* [[Apollo, Lord of Kobol|Apollo]] - He was Zeus' son, said to be the god of the hunt and of healing ([[Bastille Day]]).
* [[Artemis]] - ([[Flesh and Bone]])
* [[Aphrodite]] - ([[Flesh and Bone]])
* [[Athena, Lord of Kobol|Athena]] - She committed suicide "out of despair over the Exodus of the thirteen tribes" ([[Home, Part II]]). Her [[Tomb of Athena|tomb]] holds a map to [[Earth]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).
* [[Hera, Lord of Kobol|Hera]] - ([[Home, Part II]])

According to the [[Sacred Scrolls]], the gods once shared a paradise-like existence with the people of [[Kobol]]. Later circumstances forced the exodus of the human population of Kobol to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|the Twelve Colonies]] and [[Earth]], and lead to Athena's suicide. See [[History of the Twelve Colonies]] for more.

The existence of the Lords of Kobol is attested to by the survival of numerous artifacts, including the [[Arrow of Apollo]], the [[Tomb of Athena]] and the [[Gates of Hera]]. However, although she accepts their historicity, [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], a [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]], has called their divinity into question.

There is a notion in fan circles that there are twelve lords of Kobol, by analogy to the twelve Cylon models and twelve Colonies, and perhaps the [[Wikipedia:Twelve Olympians|Twelve Olympians]] of Greek mythology. A post in RDM's blog loosely addresses this.

:Q: "Twelve cylon models and twelve Olympian gods seems too much of coincidence to me. Is there any connection? "
:RDM: And Twelve Colonies. Coincidence....?" ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/03/index.html#a000023 RDM, March 12, 2005])

===The Jealous God===

In a [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/mov/bsg_del_112_regret.mov scene] cut from the episode "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]", [[Elosha]] states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began." Who exactly this god is/was, whether he was a Lord of Kobol, whether or not he is related to the Cylon god, remains unknown.

===The Path of Olympus===

[[Tom Zarek]] conveys to [[Laura Roslin]] and members of her command staff of [[Laura Roslin faction|factioners]] of the news that Commander [[William Adama]] had resumed command of ''[[Galactica]]'' after the attempt on his life by saying: "Zeus has returned to '''Olympus''' " ([[The Farm]]).

In Greek mythology, the home of the gods on Earth resided high on the top of Greece's highest mountain, Mount Olympus, at a time where access to the mountain summit would be almost impossible with the inhabitant's technology of that age. By Zarek's comment we can infer that Colonial religion appears to acknowledge the existence of a place called Olympus. It cannot yet be determined, however, if Olympus was thought of as the residence of the gods at a specific physical or ''metaphysical'' location of Kobol, as there has been no mention of Olympus elsewhere in the series. If Olympus is a metaphysical locale, this may contradict [[Elosha]]'s comment that the gods and man lived on Kobol together in harmony.

===Other Mythological Names in Colonial Culture===

Various items have been identified which are apparently named after other gods and legendary figures, although these have not been explicitly identified as Lords of Kobol.

* [[Triton]] - ([[Miniseries]]) - The namesake of a battlestar lost in the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]].
* [[Atlantia]] - ([[Miniseries]]) - The name of a [[Wikipedia:Hamadryad|hamadryad]], a form of nymph. Namesake of another battlestar lost in the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]].
* [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]] - A legendary horse and namesake of Admiral [[Helena Cain]]'s [[Mercury class battlestar]].
* [[Zephyr]] - ([[Fragged]]) - A ship in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] is named after this god.
* [[Mercury]] - The lead ship of the [[Mercury class battlestar|Mercury class]], apparently named for the Roman version of the Greek god Hermes.
* Pluto - Namesake of the element [[Wikipedia:Plutonium|Plutonium]] mentioned in the episode "[[Bastille Day]]", and Roman version of the Greek god Hades.

===The Cycle of Time===

''"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."''

According to [[Gaius Baltar]], this line from the Pythian Prophecy is very well known ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]). [[Laura Roslin]] later expands on it, reminding [[Kara Thrace]],

:"If you believe in the gods, then you believe in the cycle of time that we are all playing our parts in a story that is told again, and again, and again throughout eternity" ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

The notion of a circular progression of time (also known as [[Wikipedia:eternal return|eternal return]] or eternal recurrence) is a common theme in other faiths, particularly [[Wikipedia:Maya#Religion|Mayan]] mythology and is a cornerstone of the Hindu and Buddhist faiths. Moreover, [[Wikipedia:Stoic|Stoic]] philosophy did believe in the concept of ekpyrosis, the fire which consumes the old world and signals the birth of a new world, identical to the old, for a recurring cycle of birth, death and rebirth. Various events throughout the series have led some characters to believe that they are playing out another turn of this cycle. See [[Sacred Scrolls]] for more detailed analysis.

===Sanctity of Life===

According to the Sacred Scrolls, abortion is "an abomination in the eyes of the Gods". The more fundamentalist [[Gemenon]]s strictly adhere to this commandment, however the more secular Colonies such as Caprica apparently do not follow this as strictly: officially, Colonies-wide Federal law guaranteed a woman the right to an abortion, at least at the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

==Individual Practice==

The Colonials display a wide spectrum of religious practice, ranging from [[Billy Keikeya]]'s atheism ([[Home, Part II]], [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/207/deleted4.html cut scene]) to Corporal [[Venner]]'s literalistic readings of the Sacred Scrolls. Colonials express their faith in a number of ways.

===Idols===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:Idols.jpg|100px]]</div>
At the end of the episode "[[Flesh and Bone]]", Kara Thrace, a devotee of Artemis and Aphrodite (as stated by [[Leoben Conoy]] in the same episode), prays to them on Conoy's behalf using figurines that bear a similarity to classic representations of Artemis and Athena. Artemis is depicted with her bow and arrow, and Athena with her helmet of war.
<br clear="both">

===Rosaries===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:Rosary.jpg|100px]]</div>
When Roslin begins to suffer from Chamalla withdrawal in "[[Fragged]]", Corporal [[Venner]], a fundamentalist from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], anxiously clutches a set of white prayer beads.
<br clear="both">
===Group prayer===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:The_Farm-Group_Worship.jpg|100px]]</div>
Some prisoners on the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' seeking rehabilitation have turned to group prayer. In the episode "[[The Farm]]", they greet Laura Roslin as a prophet and she provides them with a blessing.

Priestess [[Elosha]] sings a group prayer in the service for the dead at the conclusion of the [[Miniseries]]. Curiously, the language she sings is Sanskrit, a classical language of real-world Earth's Hindu/Indian peoples. More about the verses that she sings and their meaning can be found in the [[Language in the Twelve Colonies#Liturgy|Language in the Twelve Colonies]] article.''<br clear="both">

===Artifacts===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:Bsg-arrow-apollo.jpg|75px]]</div>
Despite Gemenon's fundamentalist climate, the city of [[Delphi]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] was apparently of a mind to store an important religious artifact, the [[Arrow of Apollo]], in a [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies|museum]], rather than a devotional institution.
<br clear="both">

==The Priesthood==

The separation of church and state is less rigorous in the Colonies than in the contemporary United States. Laura Roslin [[Case Orange|is sworn into the presidency]] by a priest, [[Elosha]], who continues on in an advisory capacity within Roslin's administration. Priests also preside over military funerals, without regard for the beliefs of the deceased. That this is a matter of course is perhaps indicative of the religious homogeneity of the Colonies.

Priests in the Twelve Colonies are apparently not required to practice celibacy, as in some Christian denominations. In the episode "[[Resistance]]", Chief [[Galen Tyrol]] states that his father was a priest and his mother an oracle.

According to Billy Keikeya, some priests use the [[Chamalla]] plant for its hallucinogenic properties. The prescient dreams it imparted to Laura Roslin may imply the use of something similar by [[Pythia]], an ancient prophet.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)

2006-04-08T19:16:04Z

Ragestorm: /* The Jealous God */

{{Twelve Colonies Series}}
The religion of the Twelve Colonies, which the various characters of Battlestar Galactica practice to greater or lesser extent, is a polytheistic faith shared with real-life [[Wikipedia:Greek mythology|Greek mythology]], with a strong emphasis on the philosophy of [[Wikipedia:Eternal return|eternal return]].

==Origin==
There is substantial circumstantial evidence that people of Kobol originated on [[Earth]], and it is also known that one of the thirteen tribes later returned there. The similarity in beliefs of the Colonials and the ancient Greeks is probably not coincidental, although it is not yet clear which gave rise to the other. See [[History of the Twelve Colonies]] and [[Sacred Scrolls]] for a more detailed analysis.

In the burial scene of the [[Miniseries]], Adama states "Life here began out there," reminding the assembly that this was the first line of the sacred scrolls, told to them by the Lords Of Kobol uncounted centuries ago.

==Belief==

===The Lords of Kobol===

Colonial religion is centered on the Lords of Kobol, analogous to the [[Greek Gods]]. So far within the series, a total of six Lords of Kobol have been explicitly identified:

* [[Zeus]] - He was the father of the gods. [[Tom Zarek]] has twice referred to [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] as "Zeus" ([[Bastille Day]], [[The Farm]]).
* [[Apollo, Lord of Kobol|Apollo]] - He was Zeus' son, said to be the god of the hunt and of healing ([[Bastille Day]]).
* [[Artemis]] - ([[Flesh and Bone]])
* [[Aphrodite]] - ([[Flesh and Bone]])
* [[Athena, Lord of Kobol|Athena]] - She committed suicide "out of despair over the Exodus of the thirteen tribes" ([[Home, Part II]]). Her [[Tomb of Athena|tomb]] holds a map to [[Earth]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).
* [[Hera]] - ([[Home, Part II]])

According to the [[Sacred Scrolls]], the gods once shared a paradise-like existence with the people of [[Kobol]]. Later circumstances forced the exodus of the human population of Kobol to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|the Twelve Colonies]] and [[Earth]], and lead to Athena's suicide. See [[History of the Twelve Colonies]] for more.

The existence of the Lords of Kobol is attested to by the survival of numerous artifacts, including the [[Arrow of Apollo]], the [[Tomb of Athena]] and the [[Gates of Hera]]. However, although she accepts their historicity, [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], a [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]], has called their divinity into question.

There is a notion in fan circles that there are twelve lords of Kobol, by analogy to the twelve Cylon models and twelve Colonies, and perhaps the [[Wikipedia:Twelve Olympians|Twelve Olympians]] of Greek mythology. A post in RDM's blog loosely addresses this.

:Q: "Twelve cylon models and twelve Olympian gods seems too much of coincidence to me. Is there any connection? "
:RDM: And Twelve Colonies. Coincidence....?" ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/03/index.html#a000023 RDM, March 12, 2005])

===The Jealous God===

In a [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/mov/bsg_del_112_regret.mov scene] cut from the episode "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]", [[Elosha]] states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began." Who exactly this god is/was, whether he was a Lord of Kobol, whether or not he is related to the Cylon god, remains unknown.

===The Path of Olympus===

[[Tom Zarek]] conveys to [[Laura Roslin]] and members of her command staff of [[Laura Roslin faction|factioners]] of the news that Commander [[William Adama]] had resumed command of ''[[Galactica]]'' after the attempt on his life by saying: "Zeus has returned to '''Olympus''' " ([[The Farm]]).

In Greek mythology, the home of the gods on Earth resided high on the top of Greece's highest mountain, Mount Olympus, at a time where access to the mountain summit would be almost impossible with the inhabitant's technology of that age. By Zarek's comment we can infer that Colonial religion appears to acknowledge the existence of a place called Olympus. It cannot yet be determined, however, if Olympus was thought of as the residence of the gods at a specific physical or ''metaphysical'' location of Kobol, as there has been no mention of Olympus elsewhere in the series. If Olympus is a metaphysical locale, this may contradict [[Elosha]]'s comment that the gods and man lived on Kobol together in harmony.

===Other Mythological Names in Colonial Culture===

Various items have been identified which are apparently named after other gods and legendary figures, although these have not been explicitly identified as Lords of Kobol.

* [[Triton]] - ([[Miniseries]]) - The namesake of a battlestar lost in the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]].
* [[Atlantia]] - ([[Miniseries]]) - The name of a [[Wikipedia:Hamadryad|hamadryad]], a form of nymph. Namesake of another battlestar lost in the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]].
* [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]] - A legendary horse and namesake of Admiral [[Helena Cain]]'s [[Mercury class battlestar]].
* [[Zephyr]] - ([[Fragged]]) - A ship in [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] is named after this god.
* [[Mercury]] - The lead ship of the [[Mercury class battlestar|Mercury class]], apparently named for the Roman version of the Greek god Hermes.
* Pluto - Namesake of the element [[Wikipedia:Plutonium|Plutonium]] mentioned in the episode "[[Bastille Day]]", and Roman version of the Greek god Hades.

===The Cycle of Time===

''"All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."''

According to [[Gaius Baltar]], this line from the Pythian Prophecy is very well known ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]). [[Laura Roslin]] later expands on it, reminding [[Kara Thrace]],

:"If you believe in the gods, then you believe in the cycle of time that we are all playing our parts in a story that is told again, and again, and again throughout eternity" ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

The notion of a circular progression of time (also known as [[Wikipedia:eternal return|eternal return]] or eternal recurrence) is a common theme in other faiths, particularly [[Wikipedia:Maya#Religion|Mayan]] mythology and is a cornerstone of the Hindu and Buddhist faiths. Moreover, [[Wikipedia:Stoic|Stoic]] philosophy did believe in the concept of ekpyrosis, the fire which consumes the old world and signals the birth of a new world, identical to the old, for a recurring cycle of birth, death and rebirth. Various events throughout the series have led some characters to believe that they are playing out another turn of this cycle. See [[Sacred Scrolls]] for more detailed analysis.

===Sanctity of Life===

According to the Sacred Scrolls, abortion is "an abomination in the eyes of the Gods". The more fundamentalist [[Gemenon]]s strictly adhere to this commandment, however the more secular Colonies such as Caprica apparently do not follow this as strictly: officially, Colonies-wide Federal law guaranteed a woman the right to an abortion, at least at the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

==Individual Practice==

The Colonials display a wide spectrum of religious practice, ranging from [[Billy Keikeya]]'s atheism ([[Home, Part II]], [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/207/deleted4.html cut scene]) to Corporal [[Venner]]'s literalistic readings of the Sacred Scrolls. Colonials express their faith in a number of ways.

===Idols===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:Idols.jpg|100px]]</div>
At the end of the episode "[[Flesh and Bone]]", Kara Thrace, a devotee of Artemis and Aphrodite (as stated by [[Leoben Conoy]] in the same episode), prays to them on Conoy's behalf using figurines that bear a similarity to classic representations of Artemis and Athena. Artemis is depicted with her bow and arrow, and Athena with her helmet of war.
<br clear="both">

===Rosaries===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:Rosary.jpg|100px]]</div>
When Roslin begins to suffer from Chamalla withdrawal in "[[Fragged]]", Corporal [[Venner]], a fundamentalist from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], anxiously clutches a set of white prayer beads.
<br clear="both">
===Group prayer===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:The_Farm-Group_Worship.jpg|100px]]</div>
Some prisoners on the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' seeking rehabilitation have turned to group prayer. In the episode "[[The Farm]]", they greet Laura Roslin as a prophet and she provides them with a blessing.

Priestess [[Elosha]] sings a group prayer in the service for the dead at the conclusion of the [[Miniseries]]. Curiously, the language she sings is Sanskrit, a classical language of real-world Earth's Hindu/Indian peoples. More about the verses that she sings and their meaning can be found in the [[Language in the Twelve Colonies#Liturgy|Language in the Twelve Colonies]] article.''<br clear="both">

===Artifacts===
<div style="float:left; margin-right:1em;">[[Image:Bsg-arrow-apollo.jpg|75px]]</div>
Despite Gemenon's fundamentalist climate, the city of [[Delphi]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] was apparently of a mind to store an important religious artifact, the [[Arrow of Apollo]], in a [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies|museum]], rather than a devotional institution.
<br clear="both">

==The Priesthood==

The separation of church and state is less rigorous in the Colonies than in the contemporary United States. Laura Roslin [[Case Orange|is sworn into the presidency]] by a priest, [[Elosha]], who continues on in an advisory capacity within Roslin's administration. Priests also preside over military funerals, without regard for the beliefs of the deceased. That this is a matter of course is perhaps indicative of the religious homogeneity of the Colonies.

Priests in the Twelve Colonies are apparently not required to practice celibacy, as in some Christian denominations. In the episode "[[Resistance]]", Chief [[Galen Tyrol]] states that his father was a priest and his mother an oracle.

According to Billy Keikeya, some priests use the [[Chamalla]] plant for its hallucinogenic properties. The prescient dreams it imparted to Laura Roslin may imply the use of something similar by [[Pythia]], an ancient prophet.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial History]]
[[Category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:Colonial Society]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Artemis

2006-04-08T19:12:58Z

Ragestorm: fixed link

One of the [[Lords of Kobol]], worshipped by modern-day Colonials.

Her exact function is unclear, however, given the role of [[Apollo, Lord of Kobol|Apollo]] appears to reflect that of Apollo within the [[Greek Gods|Greek Olympian Pantheon]], it is probable that she fulfils the same role as the Greek Artemis of legend.

[[Kara Thrace]] prays to the [[Lords of Kobol]] while holding figurines of Artemis and [[Aphrodite]], following the "death" of [[Leoben Conoy]] aboard the ''[[Gemenon Traveller]]'' ([[Flesh and Bone]]). In doing so, she fulfills her "role" in helping his soul find God, and confirms his statement that she is a worshipper of these two [[Lords of Kobol|Lords]].

== Notes ==

===Greek Mythology===

In Greek mythology, Artemis was one of the twelve [[Greek Gods|Olympians]]. She was the daughter of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeus Zeus] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leto Leto], and the twin sister of [[Greek Gods|Apollo]]. This virgin goddess was worshipped as the goddess of the moon, the hunt, wild animals, healing, the wilderness, chastity, and childbirth.

Consistent with her roles of goddess of the moon and of the hunt, she is often portrayed in art with a bow and arrows, with the crescent moon above her head.

As with Apollo (god of healing who also gave rise to sickness such as rabies and leprosy), Artemis was said to be the cause of women dying in labour as well as being the goddess of childbirth.

== External Links ==
{{ext-wikipedia|article = Artemis}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Lords of Kobol]]

Aphrodite

2006-04-08T19:12:07Z

Ragestorm:

One of the [[Lords of Kobol]], worshiped by modern-day Colonials.

Her exact function is unclear, however, given the role of [[Apollo, Lord of Kobol|Apollo]] appears to reflect that of Apollo within the [[Greek Gods|Greek Olympian Pantheon]], it is probable that she fulfils the same role as the Greek Aphrodite of legend.

[[Kara Thrace]] prays to the [[Lords of Kobol]] while holding figurines of [[Artemis]] and Aphrodite, following the "death" of [[Leoben Conoy]] aboard the ''[[Gemenon Traveller]]'' ([[Flesh and Bone]]). In doing so, she fulfils her "role" in helping his soul find God, and confirms his statement that she is a worshipper of these two [[Lords of Kobol|Lords]].

== Notes ==

===Greek Mythology===

Aphrodite was the Greek goddess of love and beauty. Two accounts of her birth exists in Greek mythology. According to one, she was born full-grown out of sea foam after Cronos cut off the genitals of Uranus and the elder god's blood and semen dripped into the sea. According to Homer's ''Iliad'' she was the daughter of the original oracular goddess Dione.

The word ''aphrodisiac'' is derived from her name.

== External Links ==
{{ext-wikipedia|article = Aphrodite}}
{{ext-wikipedia-name|article = Aphrodisiac|name = Aphrodisiac}}

[[category:A to Z]]
[[category:Colonial Religion]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Lords of Kobol]]

Talk:Sharon Agathon/Archive 1

2006-04-07T19:30:12Z

Ragestorm: /* Nomenclature (Galactica/Caprica-Sharon) */

I'm not one to usually use the phrase "slam dunk", but this separation of the two Sharons into two character pages is ''Fantastic''!--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:04, 27 January 2006 (EST)

==Ragnar Valerii==
On re-viewing, it seems to me that Ragnar Valerii is almost certainly Caprica Valerii. Why else would she be wearing a Colonial flight suit? On the other hand, what is she doing all the way at Ragnar rather than preparing for her mission on Caprica? Are there so few of her that she had to pull double duty that week? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:36, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:That shes wearing the uniform is more likely a mistake, they hadn't thought of Caprica Valerii when they made the mini-series. Still, the two being one and the same is a good way to explain away said mistake. Her Caprica misson wouldn't really take any preparation, and the Cylons would probably make very efficient use of personnel.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 19:18, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:I disagree on this one. We know that there are dozens, nay, hundreds of duplicates of each Cylon model. Plus we don't know how they can share information. Further, Team Anders said that they had seen Cylons in uniform before, implying that it is ''not'' an uncommon sight or rare to see them in one. This combined with the other evidence leads me to thing that there is no real reason to '''assume''' one way or the other that it's the same one. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:06, 30 December 2005 (EST)

::Yeah, good points.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 23:47, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:::Sharon just likes to wear Colonial flight suits, just like Doral likes to wear Colonial professional attire and Six likes to wear sexy Colonial dresses. I mean, it's really an affectation for Cylons to wear *any* sort of human clothing—and given comfortable enough conditions, such as those on the interior of a Basestar, they don't. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:55, 31 December 2005 (EST)
::::Actually, I got the impression that the Sharons on the Basestar were all naked because they were "fresh off the assembly line", as it were.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:49, 31 December 2005 (EST)
:::::Basestars produce Cylons? I thought only the Resurrection Ship could do that (oops :-X) [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:27, 1 January 2006 (EST)
::::::I guess there are some consequences for making it all up as you go. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:19, 1 January 2006 (EST)

Or--Humano-Cylons are individuals and dress (or not) as individuals and groups. Those aboard the Basestar had formed a community of sorts which saw no particular reason for clothes. The Sharon at Ragnar was one of those who--for reasons of her own (identification with her "sleeper" sister perhaps?) decided to wear a flight suit. [[User:Zahir|Zahir]] 12:45, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:I'm pretty sure they were naked because it was warm, humid, and moist in there. And the Resurrection Ship doesn't produce new Cylons, it re-embodies old ones. All the Eights seen in Downloaded, besides Boomer, were in earth-tones. --[[User:Noneofoyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 9:30, 4 March 2006 (EST)

::The Resurrection Ship probably does produce new Cylons, both agents and raiders. It would make sense --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 21 March 2006

==Caprica Sharon lies?==
Is Caprica Sharon lying about what she knows about the Cylons, and what she knows about the members of Galactica? Manipulating Starbuck in [[Scar]]? It seems given what we learned about Cylons in [[Downloaded]], she should not necessarily have the memories she claims to have. [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 10:31, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:Matters of pure speculation; we've actually seen nothing that hints or implies that she is really hiding anything; personally, I don't think she is. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:22, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Fiber Optics ==

Any speculation on how fiber optics could interface via the arm in such away that the interface wouldn't appear on medical scans? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 11:16, 12 March 2006 (CST)

== Nomenclature (Galactica/Caprica-Sharon)==
As stated in the article, it is becoming increasingly confusing to identify the two Eight models with their season one substitute names "Galactica-Sharon" and "Caprica-Sharon". Grace Park explained in several interviews, she herself – hence most of the crew presumably – began distinguishing them by calling Galactica-Sharon "Boomer" and Caprica-Sharon "Sharon". This seems to be a less bewildering (and more logical) way to designate both Cylons, therefore I would suggest at least to mention this form of distinction in the individual Number Eight articles or even to introduce "Boomer" and "Sharon" as generally acknowledged short names for the two characters within the Battlestar Wiki. --Enemy

:Welcome to BattlestarWiki, Enemy. You were not here when we did this, but "Caprica-Sharon" and "Galactica-Sharon" are actually the names we assigned them to ''avoid'' confusion. Over the past few months, this convention has actually proved very helpful and I'm sorry if you weren't used to it when you first arrived. Grace Park's thing from that article is actually kind of confusing and I hope that one day she learns of our conventions----->'''More to the point, the production team itself started adopting this fan-naming convention when they started using the name "[[Caprica-Six]]" on air'''. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 14:18, 7 April 2006 (CDT)

The Merovingian is right, Enemy- Yes, the cast and crew use Boomer and Sharon, but that's more convienient in spoken conversation. When it comes to text, Galactica/Caprica distinction is simpler. Yes, both are a bit confusing, but they are confusing to different people-I know people who will have more of a problem with Boomer/Sharon than Caprica/Galactica. As for the interviews, Tricia Helfer has consistently used the term "humanoid Cylons" to describe herself, Lucy Lawless, and the other models, but it has not been established as the official term by anyone- if every member of the cast and crew used the Boomer/Sharon system, fine, but Eick and RDM have both called Boomer "Sharon", which proves it's no more official than our system.- [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 14:30, 7 April 2006 (CDT)

Talk:List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)/Archive 1

2006-04-06T16:29:29Z

Ragestorm: /* Six */

This is one of the places where our new spoiler policy (whichever it is) will need to be vigilantly enforced. [[Gina]] is listed as having appeared in [[Resurrection Ship]], which of course has not aired yet. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:02, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

We also need to standardize names. We have "Coztanza", "Kat / Katraine", "Sekou Hamilton", etc. I would advocate first last just like the article titles -- it took me a second to figure out who "Conoy" was. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 23:18, 15 September 2005 (EDT)
==Downloaded==
Why does someone keep on removing the entries for [[Downloaded]] regarding Leoben and Simon. Even if they are doubles, I believe they are intended to be those characters. I can't concieve of any point for introducing new Cylons in the background who look sorta like two we already know, but are not, and furthermore, not telling us about them. The fact that they don't have any dialogue or anything (which might make it clearer that it was a double), implies that they are the same models. --[[User:Mojorising1985|mojorisng1985]] 18:07, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:We know as fact that they are indeend ''intended'' to represent Simon and Leoben, from RDM's podcast, but nonetheless in terms of keeping track of actors this doesn't count, etc. And "why does someone" keep doing that: check the history page; the reasons are in the summary sentence for the edits.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:07, 25 February 2006 (EST)

::But the page isn't about the actors playing them, it is about the characters. If Simon appears in more than one episode, he is a recurring character, even if the actor is different. The name of the page was "recurring characters", not "recurring actors". If the purpose of the page is to "keep track of the actors", than perhaps someone should change the name of the page to "List of Recurring Actor Apperances."--[[User:Mojorising1985|mojorisng1985]] 19:13, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:::Nonetheless, I strongly feel that this does not count. We will await consensus on this matter here on this Discussion page. In the meantime, refrain from making any further edits. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:24, 25 February 2006 (EST)
:So far, two users are in favor of putting the characters in, while one isn't. It has been shown that they are intended to be the actual characters, so they should be included in this page, which is after all the ''recurring character''' article. It is true that they are not the same actors; but as has already been shown, that is why we have a separate recurring actors page. And as to the argument that they shouldn't be added because it's not sure if they're the ''exact same individual'' that we've sene before, that same argument would mean that every Cylon in that episode would have to be removed from appearing in that episode. Your argument has nothing to rest on, and you are outvoted in any regards, and I will ask you not to continue to be a sore loser. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 22:43, 8 March 2006 (CST)

::I am not in favor of including them, under the circumstances, since they neither had lines nor were played by their regular actors. That makes it a tie vote, anyway. Anyone else? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:33, 9 March 2006 (CST)

:::I would say include them, but with a parentheses of "body double" or something similar. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 06:06, 9 March 2006 (CST)
::I say don't. They were just extras and weren't the real actors and their characters weren't even named in the episode. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 06:11, 9 March 2006 (CST)

==To Do==
*Anastasia Dualla

== Six ==

Number Six is a series regular- Gina and Caprica-Six are still Sixes, and are played by the same, series-leading actress. I vote we remover her from this list.[[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:17, 5 April 2006 (CDT)
: True. However... they are different Sixes and therefore I don't believe a removal isn't necessary. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 19:41, 5 April 2006 (CDT)
:: It's fun and helps people who can't keep track of the names. I'm with Joe. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 20:35, 5 April 2006 (CDT)

:::This does raise some issues. Is Caprica-Sharon the main character, wth Galactica-Sharon a recurring role? If we see Caprica-Six's internal Baltar again, does that make him another recurring character played by a series lead? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:16, 6 April 2006 (CDT)

I think Galactica-Sharon was supposed to be the regular, but they switched after her death (again, same actress, so not a problem. Following this current pattern, Internal-Baltar will also be recurring- if Internal-Six vanished, then Caprica would be the regular, while Internal would be the recurring- you're right, this pattern is good! [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 11:29, 6 April 2006 (CDT)

Talk:List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)/Archive 1

2006-04-06T00:17:16Z

Ragestorm: Six

Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II

2006-04-04T20:15:41Z

Ragestorm: /* Analysis */

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Baltarlaydownburdensii.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 20
| Guests= [[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]<br/>[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]<br/>[[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
| Writer=[[Anne Cofell Saunders]] and [[Mark Verheiden]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=
| Rating=1.9
| US Airdate= March 10, 2006
| UK Airdate=
| DVD=
| Population= 49,550
| Prev= [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]
| Next= TBA
}}

== Overview ==

:''Everything turns on its head as the survivors vote for a new president -- and vote for their fate.''

== Summary ==

===On Caprica===

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]], the marines, and the [[resistance (movement)|resistance]] continue to take fire from Cylon centurions and artillery. They make their way up a hill, and hold their position.
*The Cylons hold fire, and Sharon remarks that the Cylons will attempt to capture them with non-lethal weapons, such as gas.
*Eighteen hours later, they emerge to find that the Cylons have disappeared. [[Cavil]] -- who suddenly appears behind them -- announces that the Cylons have left the Twelve Colonies and that humanity was spared.

===In the Fleet===

*[[Cally]] is cleared back to work by [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]], despite having her jaw wired shut. [[Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] visits her, apologizing for the attack. Cally forgives him, saying that she's always cared for him.

*[[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]] continues to gain in the polls. On ''[[Colonial One]]'', [[Tory_Foster|Tory]] mentions there's always a victory plan. [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] later calls a private meeting with Dr. Baltar, asking to deliver a joint statement of [[Wikipedia:Table (verb)|tabling]] the issue of colonization until after the election, which Baltar rejects.

*[[Laura Roslin|Roslin]], fearing that she has indeed lost the presidential race, confronts [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] on whether he was with Six on Caprica before the Cylon attack. Baltar avoids answering the question & states that he may have saved her life, but he will not save her political life.

*[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] returns to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', with the resistance fighters, much to the delight of Admiral Adama. She mentions the fact that the Cylons have left Caprica, and a man appearing to be Brother Cavil confirms it. He also says he has a message, but is attacked by Chief Tyrol, who declares a "[[Code blue]]," claiming Cavil is a Cylon. Both Cavil and Caprica-Sharon are escorted to the brig under marine guard.

*The other Cavil (from last episode) is also taken to the brig, claiming he's not a Cylon, but changes his tune upon seeing his "brother", as he calls him. Caprica-Cavil then talks about the fact that the “war heroes” (Caprica Six & ''Galactica''-Sharon) have convinced their kind about how the attack of the colonies and the pursuit of the fleet were mistakes. Caprica-Cavil's mission was to relay the message that man and Cylon will go their separate ways. Both Roslin and Admiral Adama are less than trusting regarding the message.

*In the brig, Caprica-Sharon is completely disillusioned and nihilistic, declaring that since her child's death, nothing - not Adama's trust, not even Helo - matters to her. A frustrated Helo insists that he's not giving up on her, but she seems disinclined to listen.

*Starbuck and Anders are getting extremely drunk when Apollo comes in to welcome them back. Starbuck makes a snide remark about Apollo and Dualla and goes back to drunkenly making out with Anders. Apollo, clearly upset with Starbuck, leaves without saying much.

*Election Day has arrived and Baltar has an apparent five thousand-vote lead over Roslin with only a few ships left. On ''Colonial One'', Tory makes a call to ''Galactica'', putting a plan into action.

*Amazingly, Roslin initially appears to have retained the presidency. While most are celebrating, Lt. Gaeta makes a startling discovery regarding the votes, and informs the Admiral that Col. Tigh may be involved in a conspiracy to throw the election.

*Admiral Adama confronts Roslin regarding the conspiracy, saying that Tigh has confessed to rigging the vote. Roslin admits her involvement and Adama is disappointed.

*Baltar is informed of his election as President. Initially he vows to have a full investigation on the vote count, but after Adama suggests that Baltar take his victory and leave matters be, Baltar relents and informs Adama that he can be quite generous in victory. President-elect Baltar then orders a course for “New Caprica”.

*Baltar and Gina finally consummate their relationship after Gina informs Baltar that she would not be part of the colonization.

*[[Gaius Baltar]] is sworn in as the new President of the Twelve Colonies, and orders the immediate colonization of New Caprica.

*''[[Cloud 9]]'' is destroyed by a nuclear blast with Gina on board; in addition to the ''Cloud 9'', at least three other ships are destroyed in the blast. Admiral Adama reports to the president that this may be a Cylon attack, but Baltar ignores him and presses forward with colonization.

===One Year Later===
[[image:burdens2.jpg|Kara and Cottle on New Caprica.|thumb]]
*[[Felix Gaeta|Mr. Gaeta]] is reporting to the President regarding a Union issue aboard Colonial One, now down on the planet. Baltar is upset, saying there have been no Cylon attacks but the people still complain. He has regressed, turning to alcohol, medication, and womanizing.

*Admiral Adama, now sporting a mustache, is walking around the near-empty Galactica, which is quickly falling into disarray. Over half of the crew have moved down onto the planet, and they are running on such a skeleton crew that they barely have enough pilots to fly training missions, much less a good [[Combat Air Patrol]]. Adama has a discussion with Tigh about going down to the planet, which Tigh reluctantly agrees to do.

*[[Samuel Anders|Anders]], now Kara’s husband, has pneumonia. Dr. Cottle is unable to treat Anders because there are no antibiotics available. He can only advise Kara to make sure Anders gets enough rest and with a little luck he "should" pull through.

*Kara runs into the Tighs as [[Tyrol]], now a union boss, is making a speech to begin a strike, with a very pregnant Cally by his side. Saul mentions that ''Pegasus'' keeps the backup medical supplies and that Apollo would spring some for Starbuck. Starbuck disagrees, which prompts Tigh to state that Apollo should be "over that by now".

*Roslin is doing what she does best, teaching the settlement's children, and manages to find enjoyment in her new position. [[Maya]] is with her, as is the now one year old [[Hera]], whom Maya has named "Isis".

*Kara calls Lee aboard ''Pegasus'', requesting the antibiotics. Dualla, now an officer and most likely Lee's XO, notices something on the [[DRADIS]].

*A fleet of [[Cylon]] [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s arrives in orbit around New Caprica. The Adamas discuss what to do in response, with Lee initially advocating that the fleet jump away, and Admiral Adama initially resisting the suggestion. However, Lee apparently brings the Admiral around to his way of thinking (or Admiral Adama comes to the conclusion on his own) when [[Helo]] asks if alert fighters should be launched. Admiral Adama keeps the alert fighters in and jumps the fleet ships remaining in orbit around [[New Caprica]] to an unknown location, vowing that he will return.

*Mr. Gaeta informs the President of the Cylon approach. Later, before his assembled staff, copies of Numbers [[Number Five|5]], [[Number Eight|8]], and [[Number Six|6]] approach the President. The Cylons declare that as long as there’s no resistance, no harm will come. President Baltar, after learning that the Cylons discovered New Caprica because of the nuke explosion set off by Gina, declares surrender on behalf of the colonists. As Cylon armies occupy the planet, Kara vows to resist.

== Questions ==

<ul><li>Who is Baltar's vice president?</li>

<ul><li>Is Gaeta Baltar's assistant or his vice President?</li>

<li>What happened to Zarek?</li>

<li>{{spoiltext|According to a recent interview with RDM, Tom Zarek is Vice President (and not completely happy with Baltar's regime).}}</ul></ul>

*Has Gaeta's view of Baltar changed since Baltar's ascension to the presidency? If so, is Gaeta planning to do anything about it?

*What "number" is Cavil?

*Was Roslin's threat to put the two Cavils into space actually carried out?

*Where did the defense fleet jump to?

*Where is Caprica-Sharon?

*Why is Leoben looking for Starbuck, specifically?

*Why has the population (until Tyrol's recent union speech) accepted Baltar's imperious rule? People were hardly so passive under Roslin. Indeed, Adama executed a military coup over a rather less important issue than giving a nuclear weapon to a Cylon agent.

*What were the workers being asked to do which was so "odious", "so sick[ening] at heart" that Tyrol was willing to call a general strike, and so important to Baltar that he was willing to use illegal imprisonment to break it?

*Are the Six and Eight that Baltar surrendered to [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]]? (see [[#Analysis:Analysis]])

*Where did the Cylon fleets go, after they left the Twelve Colonies? Cavil was deliberately vague when asked if they simply returned to the [[Cylon homeworld]].

*Why didn't the nuclear device trigger the radiological alarms on either Battlestar?

*How many people died in the Cloud Nine explosion? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Were the Quorum of Twelve killed on the Cloud Nine?

*When Gina-Six was instantly vaporized due to being only two feet from a nuclear detonation, did she still transmit her consciousness? Was she even capable of transmitting considering that any internal hardware responsible for this task would have been instantly destroyed? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Given Roslin's memories of Baltar with Six, why didn't Admiral Adama suspect Baltar of handing over the nuke to the cylons? If he did suspect him, why not act on it? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Did Baltar's internal Six disappear at any point during the New Caprica year? If so, when and why? If so, did the events of her disappearance contribute to Baltar's regression?

*Why was it so easy for Adama to hide the collusion of the rigged election from the press, and why were there no consequences?

*If the Cylons really left the Twelve Colonies, leaving behind a nuked-out wasteland, what happened to all of the human captives in the [[Farms]]?

*Why have the Cylons returned after suggesting that they were willing to go their "separate ways"?

*Did the Cavils lie about the pursuit of humanity being a mistake? Or were they telling the truth?

*Will the Cylons resume their pursuit of the Fleet?

*How many people are left in the Fleet? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Have the remaining ships in the defense fleet been armed during the past year?

*Will the Adamas resort to Cain's tactic of conscripting civilians to fill the gaps?

*What happened between Apollo and Starbuck? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*What led to Starbuck's reconciliation with Col. Tigh? The two had been in conflict since the [[Miniseries]], what led them to bury the hatchet and become the close friends they now appear to be?

*Has it become public knowledge that Baltar killed [[Crashdown]] on [[Kobol]]? Now that Chief and Cally are Baltar's open adversaries they could attempt to use this information against him.

*When Adama informs Baltar that the nuke used to blow up [[Cloud Nine]] was probably stolen form Gaius' lab, why is he not suspicious about the fact that Baltar never reported that it was missing? Had it really been stolen from his lab, he would surely notice.

*Are the Cylons that appear at the end representative of the whole Cylon race, or are they a faction that broke off after the two "Cylon Hereos" began to speak out against the war on the humans?

*If it is true that the Cylons now believe the attack on humanity was a mistake, is the occupation on New Caprica viewed by the Cylons as an act of mercy and kindness vs. oppression from the human perspective? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])

*Could it be the intent of the Cylons to actually help the colonization of New Caprica, helping with the construction of infrastructure, new homes, etc, in order to make up for the holocaust? (see [[#Analysis|Analysis]])
**If the Cylons intend to help, that would be consistent with Cavil's comment that the Cylon path to enlightenment is to be "the best machines the universe has ever seen". The purpose of a machine is arguably to assist human beings. On the other hand, the Cylons, if they are here to help, are presumably intending to do so in a highly authoritarian fashion.
***Could the Cylons be wanting to maintain control over the colonials so that in some future the colonials would not be able to return and exact revenge on the Cylons?
**Could the Cylons be fortifying New Caprica to protect the humans from hostile Cylons? There should still be some, that Number Three in Downloaded was pretty fanatical, and if the political winds have changed as they so often do...
***Could there be a Cylon civil war going on?

== Analysis ==
*According to Ron Moore's podcast, the events of "One Year Later" are real and was meant to solidify to the audience that the show is taking a path that can not be reversed. In order to make the colonization of New Caprica real, Moore felt that the show would need to jump ahead in a span of year to show that indeed Baltar has followed through with his political promise.

*The events of the Cylon invasion of New Caprica closely parallel the Nazi invasion of France, with the fleet's escape a parallel to the Allied evacuation of Dunkirk and Baltar's surrender a parallel to Petain's surrender. If the parallel continues, Baltar will establish a puppet regime under Cylon rule akin to Vichy France while Colonials still loyal to humanity will establish a resistance movement.

*Baltar's arrogance seems to have led to corrupt rule during his year on New Caprica—he replaces Roslin's modest desk with a larger, elaborate one, replaces the population count whiteboard with a portrait of himself, and keeps a harem aboard the landed Colonial One.

*After a whole year, everyone is still living in tents. There is a vital shortage of medicine, the military is of no use, and labor conditions are apparently intolerable. Baltar's administration is apparently as incompetent as Roslin feared.
**It is not clear whether these conditions are the result of admimistrative incompetence or the inherent difficulties of colonizing a marginally habitable planet.
***Of course, it was Baltar's idea to settle on a marginally habitable planet in the first place.

*It's ironic that the obligations of duty keep Lee Adama aboard Pegasus while everyone else goes planetside—he is a reserve officer, and promised to build his pilots a bar as soon as they found a habitable planet.
**Who says he didn't build a bar for them? However, despite building a bar, he would still command the Pegasus.

*Ron Moore has once again decided to play with viewer's expectations; in the podcast for "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" Moore commented on how everyone assumed that ''Pegasus'' would be destroyed by the end of the episode, and thus he thought it would be a good twist to keep ''Pegasus'' alive as another ship in the Fleet. Here, many viewers assumed that the nuke that Baltar gave to Gina in "[[Epiphanies]]" would be used to destroy ''Pegasus'' this time, but it wasn't.

*29 people died between this episode and the preceding one? One or two Raptors were lost, and some Marines died on Caprica, but that doesn't seem high enough.
**Is it possible they took out all of the people who left in the raptors because they were not apart of the fleet at the end of the previous episode?
***They didn't remove Starbuck from the count during her time on Caprica at the beginning of Season 2. When she and Helo returned to the fleet in "[[Home, Part I]]", the count only rose by one.
**Maybe more people died during the attack on Caprica than was shown.
***Yet another possibility is the inclusion of the Caprica survivors in the count to offset many of the losses that had incurred in the rescue mission.
***Although they didn't actually talk about the losses, there was a shot of a wounded person being taken away on a stretcher after the Raptors returned from the [[Caprica]] [[SAR]] mission.
***There may have been a series of election-related riots or murders.

*The year gap for the Cylons to find the fleet at first seems odd. However, it was stated in the previous episode that the interference from the gas cloud surrounding it would hide the planet fairly well. The Cylons were slightly over a light year away, according to the Number Five. Searching something as large as the gas cloud likely is for a planet or fleet is, given the sensor range limitations, quite impressive to accomplish in months, even with general directional information from a light-year out. In addition, the radiation from the nuclear explosion aboard the ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' would, of course, only be traveling at the speed of light. Even a less catastrophic attempt to communicate the Colonial's new location would be limited to the speed of light. Of course, once the location was pinpointed, an FTL jump by the Cylons to pounce would be instantaneous.
**Even though the Cylons were able to find New Caprica from the detected nuclear blast that occurred a year prior, the initial detection would have only pointed them in the right general direction. The planet would have moved from the location the inital blast occurred as it orbits around its sun. So the Cylons would only have been able to pinpoint the planet's last location a year prior. They could have used astronomical surveying to detect the planet or send their fleets to other positions using FTL ahead of the blast radiation to triangulate the nuclear blast. Then send recon elements to scout for the planet, which could have been the initial blips picked up by DRADIS by Lt. Dualla of recon Raiders. As soon as the planet was found the main Cylon Fleet would jump in from their staging areas.
***It is also clear that Gina truly did die in the nuclear explosion on Cloud 9 as she would have been able to inform the Cylons of the whereabouts of the Fleet. This indicates that no new Resurrection Ship has been constructed and that Gina's suicidal thoughts finally prevailed. This may explain why she was willing to consummate her relationship with Baltar as it would be the last time she could be with him.

*The population of New Caprica City is given as 39,192. There were just under 50,000 people in the Fleet before establishing the settlement, so that gives a figure of roughly 10,000 missing. It is uncertain how many were killed in the destruction of ''Cloud 9'' and surrounding Fleet ships but this loss along with any births and deaths that have taken place during the year since the election, leaves very few military personnel in the Orbital Defense. This almost certainly means that both ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' will be extremely short on crew, as many military personnel will have been left on the planet. There was clearly no time to retrieve even selected members of the crews before the Fleet jumped.
**The figure is not 10,000 missing — it is 10,000 not part of New Caprica City's population. The figure of 10,000 is spread amongst those remaining up in orbit with the fleet's remaining ships, out in independent, peripheral, or small settlements not part of New Caprica City proper, and casaulties.
**Watching the Fleet jump in slow-motion, you can count approximately 19 ships, which also gives a rough impression of the reduced size of the fleet. Other ships, including Colonial One and some Raptors, are landed on New Caprica and have presumably fallen into the hands of the Cylons.
**It is not explicitly said that all members of the New Caprica colony reside in New Caprica City. There may be outlying settlements, though none are named. One reason for this would simply be as a safeguard to keep a single nuclear strike from wiping out all of the fleet survivors.
***This would demonstrate Un-Baltar like prudence

**Any "industrial" vessels — such as the mining ships, tanker ships, repair ships, agro-world ship — would have landed on the planet and been debarked, dismantled, or converted to form the foundation for industrial / production efforts. Some of the vessels in the fleet that left Ragnar Anchorage weren't designed for prolonged interstellar journeys, and were basically running "on a hope and a prayer", and would have been rendered promptly upon finding a more permanent home. The nineteen-or-so ships seen are, more than likely, the last spaceworthy vessels in the fleet that are not needed planetside.
***After a year, people are still living in tents and using landed ships as buildings, so it doesn't look like much has been dismantled or converted into raw production. Other than the Tyrols miners, who are apparently extremely unhappy at how things have been run, we see little evidence of industry or production over the year.

*Apparently, Kara's comments about Lee and Dualla have taken their toll of their relationship with each other. Whether the comments escalulated is to be determined, but from Dualla's expression of annoyance when she hands the receiver to Lee when Kara calls, it is clear that the three never reconciled with each other.

*The Six and Eight that are part of the Cylon delegation that greets Baltar's cabinet are almost certaintly [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]] respectively. This is implied from Six's reaction upon seeing Baltar and her implied message of knowing who Gaius was. The two are also wearing the exact same clothes of the two Cylon war heros from the episode [[Downloaded]].

*In the Season 3 trailer that followed the end of the episode, Six is narrating, and states that humanity has finally surrendered and the war is over. According to Six, the Cylons can finally fulfill their "''true destiny''" and take care of humanity. They desire to show humanity the "''glory of peace''", mercy, and like God, their mercy can only be matched by their power and complete control. So apparently, the war heros have indeed changed the Cylons' perjudices towards humanity, but unfortunately this also means that the Cylons believe that the only way to care for humanity is to control it.

**This narrative sounds more like Baltar's internal Six (superior, controlling, zealous) than Caprica-Six (more of a people person).

== Notes ==
* '''According to Ron Moore's podcast, although Scifi Channel was willing to air this episode as a 90-minute special, it had to be heavily edited down for international distribution; outside of the United States, viewers will only see a 1 hour version of the episode, which Moore regards as "almost incomprehensible".''' Many plot threads, such as the entire Cally/Tyrol subplot, were completely removed from the one hour version. This may not be the case in the UK however as Skyone (the channel that broadcasts the show in that country) previously showed the full 90 minute version of Stargate SG1 episode 'Threads' and may well do the same for this episode.

* Ron Moore's podcast for episode 13, [[Epiphanies]], states that the Nuke given to Gina will come back in this episode, to the benefit of the Cylons.

*Admiral Adama watches Pyramid games and is a fan of the Picon Panthers.

*In RDM's podcast for the previous episode, he said that in early drafts of this special 90 minute long episode, the writers actually tried to make it a 2 hour special, but this was soon dropped (these times are including commercials).
*The election board appears to have a definitive list of the names of all of the ships in [[The Fleet (RDM)]]. Not all of them are clearly visible, but this would seem to indicate that the writers do have an actual list that they get new ship names from. Ship names visible on the chart are: Demetrius, Diomedes, Embla Brokk, Enkidu, Epheme, Galactica, Gideon, Gemenon Traveller, Greenleaf, Monarch, Odysseus, Pegasus, Persephone, Prometheus, Swordfish

*The framed photo of President Roslin and [[Billy Keikeya]] was still on her desk during the election.

*When Roslin "won" the rigged election results, Roslin received 24,265 votes, while Baltar recieved 22,266. This means that the elligible voters in the Fleet number 46,531. In the podcast, RDM explains that he quickly came up with these numbers, to try to reflect roughly how many survivors are below the voting age.

*Toward the end of the episode, President Baltar refers to a government body called the "People's Council". This may be the proportionally elected lower house mentioned by RDM in his [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016 blog post] on January 30, 2005.

*[[Hera]] is seen on New Caprica in the same white cradle that Baltar had a vision of her being in in "[[Scattered]]", etc. According to RDM's podcast it's actually the exact same cradle.

*Tyrol's union speech is an almost word for word quote of Mario Savio's address during the Free Speech Movement at Berkeley in 1964. According to Ron Moore and David Eick in the podcast, they even got permission from Savio's widow to use it (even though, due to the way copyright laws work from back then, they could have just used it without permission, they felt they should get it). As a result, it's even listed in the credits: "Mario Savio speech excerpted courtesy of: Lynne Hollander Savio". Actor Aaron Douglas (Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]) actually studied film of Savio, so all of the hand gestures Tyrol makes when he gives the speech are gestures that Savio actually used.

*Baltar's portrait of himself does not have the 'cut corners' as seen in most (all?) other papers and photos in the show.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Dr. Cottle decides Cally is ready to return to duty:''
:'''Cottle:''' You're done here. I'm kickin' you out of here and sending you back to work.
:'''Cally:''' (muffled, because her jaw is immobilized) Work??? Like this?
:'''Cottle:''' You gotta love a woman who can complain even with her jaw wired shut.

*"Well, this is an awkward moment…. Yes, he's right, I'm a Cylon. And I have a message. So…take me to your leader."
*:—The Caprica copy of '''Brother Cavil''' on being uncovered as a Cylon

*"Would you mind telling me what's going on? I'm not a frakking Cylon, I'm not…(''sees the other Cavil in the cell'')…oh. Well, okay then."
*:—The Galactica copy of '''Brother Cavil'''

*"Gods help us."
*:-'''Admiral Adama''' over the objection of [[Edward James Olmos]] (podcast)

*''Trying to bring order to a Union meeting:''
:'''Tyrol:''' Everyone, please be quiet. (''crowd ignores him'')
:'''Cally:''' Hey! Shut the frak up! (''crowd quiets down'')

*"We're leaving. But we'll be back."
*:—'''Admiral Adama''' ordering the fleet to evacuate New Caprica

*''On Caprica:''
::'''Anders:''' You got any great ideas in that military brain of yours?
::'''Starbuck:''' Do the same thing we always do; fight 'em 'till we can't.
:''The Cylons occupy New Caprica:''
::'''Tyrol:''' "What do you want to do now, Captain?"
::'''Starbuck:''' "The same thing we always do. Fight them until we can't."

== Official Statements ==

From the official site (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/):
When Baltar wins the vote, Roslin considers stealing the election because she believes he is a Cylon collaborator.

=== From RDM's blog ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/03/#a000409 March 28, 2006]) ===

* '''"The plot twist [of the finale] seems to share allot (sic) in common with the DeSanto Galactica continuation story, where the humans think they are safe from the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and revolt against the military by deciding to give up on [[Earth]] and to colonize another place called [[New Caprica]]. Were you at least partially inspired by this earlier concept? "'''

: No. I can honestly say that the idea for our finale was entirely home-grown. I had lunch with [[Tom DeSanto]] a few weeks back and we talked about the struggles we both went through trying to get our respective versions of the show off the ground. As he talked about [[Battlestar Galactica (SDS)|his pilot concept]], I shared many of the plot details from our finale and we both remarked on how some notions and ideas are simply either "in the ether" or have a certain inevitability to them. It's reminiscent of the "[[Wikipedia:Babylon 5|Babylon 5]]" vs. "[[Wikipedia:Star Trek:Deep Space 9|[Star Trek]: Deep Space 9]]" questions I used to get. I was there when DS9 was being created and I knew for a fact that neither [[Wikipedia:Michael Piller|Michael Piller]] nor [[Wikipedia:Rick Berman|Rick Berman]] had any knowledge of the B-5 material, but when you're doing a series set on a space station, there were bound to be certain paths that writers found attractive (like having a female second officer, for instance). In terms of ''Galactica'', the idea that the people of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|rag-tag fleet]] might one day come across a planet and decide to settle down permanently, is an idea that would probably occur to anyone approaching the material, and it's really a question of how you execute that idea which is key.

* '''"I understand according to the podcast that you guys were way over budget on ep 2.20, but the [[New Caprica|tent city]] really threw me off. I try not to be one of those fans that nitpicks everything to death, but this bothered me so much that I had to register and post. If they've been on planet for over a year now and they intend to make it their home, why are they still living in tents? If I had my choice between a tent and something more permanent and weatherproof, I'd be moving heaven and earth to construct the latter."'''

: There are some permanent buildings in the settlement, but it seemed plausible that to start an entire city from scratch would be a massive undertaking to say the least. It also seemed that without a strong leader like [[Laura Roslin]] to helm this kind of effort, that the organizational problems would add up and that the project could easily get stalled or delayed. Now, add to that various unknowns like disease and unfamiliar weather patterns as well as the difficulties in exploiting the natural resources in a completely new environment, it didn't seem implausible that there'd still be a lot of people living in tents.

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001777/ Dean Stockwell] as [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Aaron Doral]]
*Rekha Sharma as [[Tory Foster]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0443286/ David Kaye] as [[James McManus]]
*Alisen Down as Jean Barclay
*Winston Rekert as Priest

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Mark Verheiden]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

Naturalistic science fiction

2006-03-30T12:50:33Z

Ragestorm: /* Space Remains Big...and Lonely */

{{NPOV}}
== In Theory... ==

'''Naturalistic science fiction''' (NSF) is a realistic take on the SF genre, avoiding typical SF [[Wikipedia:cliche|cliches]], utilizing visual and artistic elements from such dramas as "[[Wikipedia:The Sopranos|The Sopranos]]", "[[Wikipedia:24 (television)|24]]" and "[[Wikipedia:The West Wing|The West Wing]]". Naturalistic SF blends the best elements of [[Wikipedia:Soft science fiction|"soft" science fiction]] (where characterization is of prime importance) and [[Wikipedia:Hard science fiction|"hard" science fiction]] (where plausible technical accuracy is preferred). Fundamentally, it is a drama with sci-fi elements.

== In Practice... ==

===Characters===
For [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the new "Battlestar Galactica" series]] naturalistic SF means that '''characters''' are viewed as normal, every-day people, complete with flaws, neuroses, and even addictions. There will be no stereotypical SF characters such as the "smoking chauvinist", "loyal soldier", "heroic lead", "spiritual commander", "whiz-kid genius", or "sexy doctor".

===Technology===
'''Technology''' is far enough advanced for star travel to be possible (see: [[FTL]] travel) and plausible, yet every other aspect of Colonial technology is humbly realistic. Instead of using technology such as [[Wikipedia:Star Trek|"Star Trek's"]] transporters, people need to be physically shuttled between ships on smaller craft like [[Raptor|Raptors]].

Colonial ships are not powered by "dylithium crystals" housed inside "warp cores" , but from [[tylium]], a powerful solid substance with interesting properties that's mined from planets and asteroids and refined. The one similarity is that neither subtance actually exists.

Energy weapons such as "Star Trek's" phasers and photon torpedoes are replaced with ordinary projectile weapons and Earthly mass-destruction ordinance: guns, bullets and nuclear bombs. Other SF "[[Wikipedia:deus ex machina|deus ex machina]]" are avoided entirely, or replaced with technology more in line with what's seen in modern life. If [[the Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] runs out of water, ''Galactica'' can't "invent" some device to reclaim the water molecules from hydrogen molecules--they search for a planetary body that has water ([[Water]]). Technology looks familar to the viewer, from the phones, computer screens, and even the bathrooms.

Much like [[Aaron Doral]] noted in the opening of the [[Miniseries]], form follows function when it comes to the ship designs. ''Galactica'' is designed as a battle cruiser / aircraft carrier in space; the hull is lined with armor plating, strengthened by [[Frame|structural ribbing]] and insulated from external explosions by internal structures such as water tanks ([[Water]]). The command center of the ship, the [[CIC]], is buried deep within the ship and protected from any attacks, unlike ''Star Trek's'' starships, whose bridges are openly exposed at the top-center of the ship on most classes not designated for war.

Many Colonial civilian ships are spaceborne variations of ships you may see in the air or at sea in the real-world Earth. ''[[Colonial One]]'' is designed to be a [[Intersun|jetliner in space]] and is set up similar to a real world passenger airliner with rows of seats separated into various classes down the fuselage, cramped airplane bathrooms, cargo bays in the ship's underbelly and private cabins for VIPs (they may even have those dry complementary peanut snacks or the free drink).

===No "Deus Ex Machina" Concepts===

Characters like [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] are annoyed by endless '''[[technobabble]]'''. Complex procedures needed to further the plot are often explained in context to the episode in simple and down-to-earth terms, if they're ever explained at all.

When technology is mentioned, it's typically analogous to something found on the real-world Earth. Dialogue such as "[[Stims|stims]]", "[[Morpha|morpha]]", "[[DRADIS]]" and "[[wireless]]" will seem familiar enough when used in context to most casual viewers.

''Galactica'' and its Fleet has to be creative with the very limited resources in the Fleet. They cannot barter with other civilizations (there aren't any), or "replicate" parts from "replication technology" . They have a limited supply of ''everything'' : [[Viper (RDM)|fighters]], ammunition, food, water, and people. Specialized crewmembers, such as [[List of Pilots|pilots]] and [[Cottle|doctors]], are in even shorter supply. In "Battlestar Galactica's" world, they don't have a some kind of homebase or a parent government: What they are and what they have is literally visible in every episode--and everything is wearing or running out, adding to the drama of the characters. This is can be seen in the deteriorating conditions of ''Galactica'''s Vipers, which began the [[Miniseries]] in pristine condition, but through extended use all now have significant battle damage, burns, scars, scrapes and dents and several have been damaged beyond repair ("[[Flight of the Phoenix]]").

===Space Remains Big...and Lonely===

There are no "planet-of-the-week" episodes, that is, a new planet or culture every week, which is the major format for ''Star Trek'' and ''StarGate''. The universe remains so big as to appear almost empty, with the odds of meeting other intelligent beings (excluding, perhaps, remnants of the [[Earth|Thirteenth Tribe]]) practically nil. A majority of [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica's]] episodes primarily focus on internal Fleet survival issues ("[[Water]]", "[[Bastille Day]]", and "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]").

Humanoid or other intelligent life (save that of the Fleet's nemesis, the human-created [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]) does not exist, as almost all of the encountered planets will be mostly uninhabitable and lifeless. The latter point, though, is in contrast to estimates by leading SETI researchers, who believe that some form or other of a biosphere -not necessarily including intelligent life- should in fact be quite common. (Try [http://www.arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0205014 this article from the academic journal "Astrobiology"] and [[Wikipedia:Drake Equation|Drake Equation]] for context.) To add to that, there are 200-400 billion stars in the galaxy, meaning that there should be a similar number of potentially inhabitable planets, but the fleet has no way of getting to them within a few hours (StarGate shares this galactic design priciple- it's only the 'Gate network that allows viable travel to other habitable planets).

The characters do speak of animals from the now Cylon-occupied Colonies, and they share most of the names we use in the real-world Earth: [[Life Forms of the Twelve Colonies|chickens, dogs, cattle, and cats]] existed on their worlds. This naming is done mostly to make it easier for the viewers to identify with the characters and to prevent writers from having to invent a new animal.

Curiously similar animals have been observed, after a fashion, on other worlds besides the Twelve Colonies. [[Socinus]] notes while on [[Kobol]] that he is able to listen to the birds in the trees for the first time since the Cylon attack. ("[[Scattered]]") Some sort of terraforming may have been involved with the Colonies and Kobol, a concept that almost all other Sci-Fi shows have toyed with.

===Storytelling and Music===

[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|"Battlestar Galactica"]] avoids the thematic elements found in "[[Wikipedia:Star Trek|Star Trek]]". The series story is told chronolgically in episodic storytelling, using a [[Wikipedia:Documentary film|documentary-style, ''cinema verite'']] visual feel, and tribal music that gives the series a more multi-cultural sound texture than the overly-used flags-and-banners overtures used in "Star Trek", "Star Wars", and the original Battlestar Galactica.

== Related Articles ==

*[http://www.galactica2003.net/articles/concept.shtml Galactica2003.net's Reprint of RDM's Take on Naturalistic SF]

*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Science_Fiction Wikipedia article on Hard Science Fiction]

*The [[Physics (RDM)|physics]] seen in the Re-imagined Series

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category: Hollywood Buzzwords]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Naturalistic science fiction

2006-03-30T12:45:10Z

Ragestorm: /* No "Deus Ex Machina" Concepts */ - the word "fanciful" compromises the neutrality of the article

{{NPOV}}
== In Theory... ==

'''Naturalistic science fiction''' (NSF) is a realistic take on the SF genre, avoiding typical SF [[Wikipedia:cliche|cliches]], utilizing visual and artistic elements from such dramas as "[[Wikipedia:The Sopranos|The Sopranos]]", "[[Wikipedia:24 (television)|24]]" and "[[Wikipedia:The West Wing|The West Wing]]". Naturalistic SF blends the best elements of [[Wikipedia:Soft science fiction|"soft" science fiction]] (where characterization is of prime importance) and [[Wikipedia:Hard science fiction|"hard" science fiction]] (where plausible technical accuracy is preferred). Fundamentally, it is a drama with sci-fi elements.

== In Practice... ==

===Characters===
For [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the new "Battlestar Galactica" series]] naturalistic SF means that '''characters''' are viewed as normal, every-day people, complete with flaws, neuroses, and even addictions. There will be no stereotypical SF characters such as the "smoking chauvinist", "loyal soldier", "heroic lead", "spiritual commander", "whiz-kid genius", or "sexy doctor".

===Technology===
'''Technology''' is far enough advanced for star travel to be possible (see: [[FTL]] travel) and plausible, yet every other aspect of Colonial technology is humbly realistic. Instead of using technology such as [[Wikipedia:Star Trek|"Star Trek's"]] transporters, people need to be physically shuttled between ships on smaller craft like [[Raptor|Raptors]].

Colonial ships are not powered by "dylithium crystals" housed inside "warp cores" , but from [[tylium]], a powerful solid substance with interesting properties that's mined from planets and asteroids and refined. The one similarity is that neither subtance actually exists.

Energy weapons such as "Star Trek's" phasers and photon torpedoes are replaced with ordinary projectile weapons and Earthly mass-destruction ordinance: guns, bullets and nuclear bombs. Other SF "[[Wikipedia:deus ex machina|deus ex machina]]" are avoided entirely, or replaced with technology more in line with what's seen in modern life. If [[the Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] runs out of water, ''Galactica'' can't "invent" some device to reclaim the water molecules from hydrogen molecules--they search for a planetary body that has water ([[Water]]). Technology looks familar to the viewer, from the phones, computer screens, and even the bathrooms.

Much like [[Aaron Doral]] noted in the opening of the [[Miniseries]], form follows function when it comes to the ship designs. ''Galactica'' is designed as a battle cruiser / aircraft carrier in space; the hull is lined with armor plating, strengthened by [[Frame|structural ribbing]] and insulated from external explosions by internal structures such as water tanks ([[Water]]). The command center of the ship, the [[CIC]], is buried deep within the ship and protected from any attacks, unlike ''Star Trek's'' starships, whose bridges are openly exposed at the top-center of the ship on most classes not designated for war.

Many Colonial civilian ships are spaceborne variations of ships you may see in the air or at sea in the real-world Earth. ''[[Colonial One]]'' is designed to be a [[Intersun|jetliner in space]] and is set up similar to a real world passenger airliner with rows of seats separated into various classes down the fuselage, cramped airplane bathrooms, cargo bays in the ship's underbelly and private cabins for VIPs (they may even have those dry complementary peanut snacks or the free drink).

===No "Deus Ex Machina" Concepts===

Characters like [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] are annoyed by endless '''[[technobabble]]'''. Complex procedures needed to further the plot are often explained in context to the episode in simple and down-to-earth terms, if they're ever explained at all.

When technology is mentioned, it's typically analogous to something found on the real-world Earth. Dialogue such as "[[Stims|stims]]", "[[Morpha|morpha]]", "[[DRADIS]]" and "[[wireless]]" will seem familiar enough when used in context to most casual viewers.

''Galactica'' and its Fleet has to be creative with the very limited resources in the Fleet. They cannot barter with other civilizations (there aren't any), or "replicate" parts from "replication technology" . They have a limited supply of ''everything'' : [[Viper (RDM)|fighters]], ammunition, food, water, and people. Specialized crewmembers, such as [[List of Pilots|pilots]] and [[Cottle|doctors]], are in even shorter supply. In "Battlestar Galactica's" world, they don't have a some kind of homebase or a parent government: What they are and what they have is literally visible in every episode--and everything is wearing or running out, adding to the drama of the characters. This is can be seen in the deteriorating conditions of ''Galactica'''s Vipers, which began the [[Miniseries]] in pristine condition, but through extended use all now have significant battle damage, burns, scars, scrapes and dents and several have been damaged beyond repair ("[[Flight of the Phoenix]]").

===Space Remains Big...and Lonely===

There are no "planet-of-the-week" episodes. The universe remains so big as to appear almost empty, with the odds of meeting other intelligent beings (excluding, perhaps, remnants of the [[Earth|Thirteenth Tribe]]) practically nil. A majority of [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica's]] episodes primarily focus on internal Fleet survival issues ("[[Water]]", "[[Bastille Day]]", and "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]").

Humanoid or quasi-humanoid intelligent life (save that of the Fleet's nemesis, the human-created [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]) does not exist, as almost all of the encountered planets will be mostly uninhabitable and lifeless. The latter point, though, is in contrast to estimates by leading SETI researchers, who believe that some form or other of a biosphere -not necessarily including intelligent life- should in fact be quite common. (Try [http://www.arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0205014 this article from the academic journal "Astrobiology"] and [[Wikipedia:Drake Equation|Drake Equation]] for context.) To add to that, there are 200-400 billion stars in the galaxy, meaning that there should be a similar number of potentially inhabitable planets.

The characters do speak of animals from the now Cylon-occupied Colonies, and they share most of the names we use in the real-world Earth: [[Life Forms of the Twelve Colonies|chickens, dogs, cattle, and cats]] existed on their worlds. This naming is done mostly to make it easier for the viewers to identify with the characters and to prevent writers from having to invent a new animal.

Curiously similar animals have been observed, after a fashion, on other worlds besides the Twelve Colonies. [[Socinus]] notes while on [[Kobol]] that he is able to listen to the birds in the trees for the first time since the Cylon attack. ("[[Scattered]]")

===Storytelling and Music===

[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|"Battlestar Galactica"]] avoids the thematic elements found in "[[Wikipedia:Star Trek|Star Trek]]". The series story is told chronolgically in episodic storytelling, using a [[Wikipedia:Documentary film|documentary-style, ''cinema verite'']] visual feel, and tribal music that gives the series a more multi-cultural sound texture than the overly-used flags-and-banners overtures used in "Star Trek", "Star Wars", and the original Battlestar Galactica.

== Related Articles ==

*[http://www.galactica2003.net/articles/concept.shtml Galactica2003.net's Reprint of RDM's Take on Naturalistic SF]

*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Science_Fiction Wikipedia article on Hard Science Fiction]

*The [[Physics (RDM)|physics]] seen in the Re-imagined Series

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category: Hollywood Buzzwords]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Naturalistic science fiction

2006-03-30T12:40:18Z

Ragestorm: /* Technology */ - removed biased word choices- ex. "unrealistic" and "fantasy"

{{NPOV}}
== In Theory... ==

'''Naturalistic science fiction''' (NSF) is a realistic take on the SF genre, avoiding typical SF [[Wikipedia:cliche|cliches]], utilizing visual and artistic elements from such dramas as "[[Wikipedia:The Sopranos|The Sopranos]]", "[[Wikipedia:24 (television)|24]]" and "[[Wikipedia:The West Wing|The West Wing]]". Naturalistic SF blends the best elements of [[Wikipedia:Soft science fiction|"soft" science fiction]] (where characterization is of prime importance) and [[Wikipedia:Hard science fiction|"hard" science fiction]] (where plausible technical accuracy is preferred). Fundamentally, it is a drama with sci-fi elements.

== In Practice... ==

===Characters===
For [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the new "Battlestar Galactica" series]] naturalistic SF means that '''characters''' are viewed as normal, every-day people, complete with flaws, neuroses, and even addictions. There will be no stereotypical SF characters such as the "smoking chauvinist", "loyal soldier", "heroic lead", "spiritual commander", "whiz-kid genius", or "sexy doctor".

===Technology===
'''Technology''' is far enough advanced for star travel to be possible (see: [[FTL]] travel) and plausible, yet every other aspect of Colonial technology is humbly realistic. Instead of using technology such as [[Wikipedia:Star Trek|"Star Trek's"]] transporters, people need to be physically shuttled between ships on smaller craft like [[Raptor|Raptors]].

Colonial ships are not powered by "dylithium crystals" housed inside "warp cores" , but from [[tylium]], a powerful solid substance with interesting properties that's mined from planets and asteroids and refined. The one similarity is that neither subtance actually exists.

Energy weapons such as "Star Trek's" phasers and photon torpedoes are replaced with ordinary projectile weapons and Earthly mass-destruction ordinance: guns, bullets and nuclear bombs. Other SF "[[Wikipedia:deus ex machina|deus ex machina]]" are avoided entirely, or replaced with technology more in line with what's seen in modern life. If [[the Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] runs out of water, ''Galactica'' can't "invent" some device to reclaim the water molecules from hydrogen molecules--they search for a planetary body that has water ([[Water]]). Technology looks familar to the viewer, from the phones, computer screens, and even the bathrooms.

Much like [[Aaron Doral]] noted in the opening of the [[Miniseries]], form follows function when it comes to the ship designs. ''Galactica'' is designed as a battle cruiser / aircraft carrier in space; the hull is lined with armor plating, strengthened by [[Frame|structural ribbing]] and insulated from external explosions by internal structures such as water tanks ([[Water]]). The command center of the ship, the [[CIC]], is buried deep within the ship and protected from any attacks, unlike ''Star Trek's'' starships, whose bridges are openly exposed at the top-center of the ship on most classes not designated for war.

Many Colonial civilian ships are spaceborne variations of ships you may see in the air or at sea in the real-world Earth. ''[[Colonial One]]'' is designed to be a [[Intersun|jetliner in space]] and is set up similar to a real world passenger airliner with rows of seats separated into various classes down the fuselage, cramped airplane bathrooms, cargo bays in the ship's underbelly and private cabins for VIPs (they may even have those dry complementary peanut snacks or the free drink).

===No "Deus Ex Machina" Concepts===

Characters like [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] are annoyed by endless '''[[technobabble]]'''. Complex procedures needed to further the plot are often explained in context to the episode in simple and down-to-earth terms, if they're ever explained at all.

When technology is mentioned, it's typically analogous to something found on the real-world Earth. Dialogue such as "[[Stims|stims]]", "[[Morpha|morpha]]", "[[DRADIS]]" and "[[wireless]]" will seem familiar enough when used in context to most casual viewers.

''Galactica'' and its Fleet has to be creative with the very limited resources in the Fleet. They cannot barter with other civilizations (there aren't any), or "replicate" parts from some fanciful reproducing device. They have a limited supply of ''everything'' : [[Viper (RDM)|fighters]], ammunition, food, water, and people. Specialized crewmembers, such as [[List of Pilots|pilots]] and [[Cottle|doctors]], are in even shorter supply. In "Battlestar Galactica's" world, they don't have a "starbase" or "Federation" : What they are and what they have is literally visible in every episode--and everything is wearing or running out, adding to the drama of the characters. This is exemplified by the deteriorating conditions of ''Galactica'''s Vipers, which began the [[Miniseries]] in pristine condition, but through extended use all now have significant battle damage, burns, scars, scrapes and dents and several have been damaged beyond repair ("[[Flight of the Phoenix]]").

===Space Remains Big...and Lonely===

There are no "planet-of-the-week" episodes. The universe remains so big as to appear almost empty, with the odds of meeting other intelligent beings (excluding, perhaps, remnants of the [[Earth|Thirteenth Tribe]]) practically nil. A majority of [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica's]] episodes primarily focus on internal Fleet survival issues ("[[Water]]", "[[Bastille Day]]", and "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]").

Humanoid or quasi-humanoid intelligent life (save that of the Fleet's nemesis, the human-created [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]) does not exist, as almost all of the encountered planets will be mostly uninhabitable and lifeless. The latter point, though, is in contrast to estimates by leading SETI researchers, who believe that some form or other of a biosphere -not necessarily including intelligent life- should in fact be quite common. (Try [http://www.arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0205014 this article from the academic journal "Astrobiology"] and [[Wikipedia:Drake Equation|Drake Equation]] for context.) To add to that, there are 200-400 billion stars in the galaxy, meaning that there should be a similar number of potentially inhabitable planets.

The characters do speak of animals from the now Cylon-occupied Colonies, and they share most of the names we use in the real-world Earth: [[Life Forms of the Twelve Colonies|chickens, dogs, cattle, and cats]] existed on their worlds. This naming is done mostly to make it easier for the viewers to identify with the characters and to prevent writers from having to invent a new animal.

Curiously similar animals have been observed, after a fashion, on other worlds besides the Twelve Colonies. [[Socinus]] notes while on [[Kobol]] that he is able to listen to the birds in the trees for the first time since the Cylon attack. ("[[Scattered]]")

===Storytelling and Music===

[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|"Battlestar Galactica"]] avoids the thematic elements found in "[[Wikipedia:Star Trek|Star Trek]]". The series story is told chronolgically in episodic storytelling, using a [[Wikipedia:Documentary film|documentary-style, ''cinema verite'']] visual feel, and tribal music that gives the series a more multi-cultural sound texture than the overly-used flags-and-banners overtures used in "Star Trek", "Star Wars", and the original Battlestar Galactica.

== Related Articles ==

*[http://www.galactica2003.net/articles/concept.shtml Galactica2003.net's Reprint of RDM's Take on Naturalistic SF]

*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Science_Fiction Wikipedia article on Hard Science Fiction]

*The [[Physics (RDM)|physics]] seen in the Re-imagined Series

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category: Hollywood Buzzwords]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Naturalistic science fiction/Archive 1

2006-03-29T13:08:39Z

Ragestorm: /* NPOV Request */

==NPOV Request==
Ok, folks, I see some major problems with this article:
*A lot of it reads like it's the purpose of this site to bash Star Trek
*Some of it is quite simply false:
::In StarTrek, energy is ''not'' provided by "inexhaustible dylithium". Rather, the dilithium crystals serve as a matrix for a controlled matter/antimatter reaction, similar to moderators in a nuclear fission power plant (cf. http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/technology/article/2743.html ) As such, not being the fuel, they don't need to be exchanged beyond wear and tear. And matter/antimatter reaction is a very feasible energy source for huge amounts of energy. In fact, I doubt it is possible to get a higher efficiency. Compared to that, it is Tylium that is sheer fantasy.

::Photon torpedos, while glowing in animation, aren't "energy weapons" other than in having a matter/antimatter warhead. They are very solid vehicles.

::etc.

*Guns'n'bullets are very good weapons on a planet. In space, they have their uses, too, but they also have their limitations. Due to the immense speed theoretically possible in space and the relatively small speed of bullets compared to these, the useful range of regular projectile weapons is quite limited. At greater distance, psychic qualities would be necessary to predict where the target will be once the bullet is there. While energy weapons have issues of focussing, those aren't insurpassable. On the other hand, they have, in the case of a laser, speed of light, and in the case of a particle accelerator, close to that, meaning they can bridge even large distances in relatively short time. None of that is "fantasy", as the article suggests, but rather technology that exists today which requires miniaturization. So guns and bullets are quite ok as point defense weapons in space, but for anything further away, either guided weapons or weapons achieving a speed that is a significant fraction of the speed of light are necessary. One tends to think of huge vessels such as Galactica or a Cylon basestar as slow. But give them enough time to accelerate, and they can be whizzing by at several miles per second.

*While a lot of the stuff mentioned in the text might be RDM's intention, the question is how much it fulfills the claims raised. While obviously, there should be a place on this site to cite RDM, I believe that the individual articles of a Wiki should be a source of information were the creator's views are but one source of information. RDM's take is already provided with the link to Galactica2003.net and while it should be summarized here, I don't think it should be taken as holy writ.

The jetliner in space and other things might feel "naturalistic", but that doesn't mean it's a sound concept. The "plausible technical accuracy" in the "in theory" paragraph is a bold hypothesis. However, to me the setup honestly looks more like "doing soft SF with the bad stuff left out". And the "no deus ex machina" concept needs to be looked askance at vis-a-vis the cancer cure as well.

The ''stories'' Galactica has to tell are great, but I personally believe that as a consequence of RDM not wanting to "tie himself down" dramatically, what is lacking is a solid concept of the level of technology. A lot of things might look perfectly feasible when seen isolated, but on an overall level, I believe putting FTL (or quasi-FTL) and anti-gravity together with a lot of 20th and 21st century technology, and in some aspects apparently even less, RDM actually backpedaled to a lot of early SF, which had FTL travel because it was dramaturgically necessary, and some development in the physics department such as beam weapons, but lacked any development in biology. Likewise, BG shows technologies that suggest availability of humongous amounts of energy but shows little other use than one or two applications. This gives a discontinous impression of the technological level.

So, theoretically, my concerns would require a complete rewrite of the text, which is why I rather voiced them here before changing something. I believe, though, the false information re:StarTrek should be thrown out posthaste, since it weakens any other points. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 15:49, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:Over the months, this article has been edited to the point where it does have a bias towards "Star Trek," which, given its location in the pop SF food chain, is a deserved prime target. Yet, I agree, the article need not be a "Star Trek"-bashing article, but to contrast and compare it (and other series, such as another high level target, "Stargate SG-1") to what BSG strives to be. And, as you've noted in other articles, BSG isn't perfect. Rather than duplicating what is on the [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]] page, dividing the page by section with comments and comparison relevant to where NSF principles succeeded or failed so far in BSG could be useful. To aid in this, I've tagged this article with the (rarely used here) tag of disputed neutrality to get some attention. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:00, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::I must disagree ''' ''utterly'' ''' with OliverH's comments:
::*Yes, I agree with Spencerian that certain small tweaks should be made. However, if Oliver wanted to change small-sclae complaints like "inexhaustible dilithium crystals to "inexhaustible energy supply based on dilithium controlled matter/anti-matter reaction", he should simply have done so immediatly instead of forcing debate on the subject. Although "photon torpedos" are not energy weapons, phasers are; he should have just edited this accordingly, as he saw fit.
::*Yes, Guns aren't as good weapons as lasers. That doesn't change the fact that 1) At dogfight and regular battle distances, they're still pretty useful and 2) The BSG universe is intentionally not that technologically advanced. The fact that lasers are superior to guns doesn't change the fact that they still use these more "realistic" weapons. The entire point of that, of course, is more story design: being shot with bullets (i.e. [[Tarn]]), has more emotional impact than being shot with "lasers").
::*'''Yes, it is almost certainly the direct purpose of this article to critique Star Trek, by contrasting it with BSG'''. Oliver, the entire concept of making the new BSG was that it was RDM's "answer" to the poor quality of the later Star Treks (Voyager and Enterprise, rife with technobabble an implausibility), in this area as well. Quite frankly, it's impossible to separate the two: when the first page of the series bible states that "we propose nothing less than the re-invention of the scifi tv series genre"...it's kind of required that you make comparisons to the "old" model of the genre which was "re-invented". This part of the article must stand.
::*So, basically, '''no, your comments do not "require" a "complete rewrite of the text"'''. This is overboard. However, I do *commend* you on stating your feeling on the talk page instead of just making them without consensus. I would like to say that I do not mean to offend, Oliver, but these Star Trek/BSG issues bring up strong emotions. Like the silly pages and other talk-commentary, the "Naturalistic Science Fiction" page, is, by its very nature, going to be NPOV. '''I do agree''' with Spencerian's assessment that it could use some tweaking here or there, mostly for fact correction (dilithium, phasers,etc.) but the derision of Star Trek must remain, because BSG defines itself in opposition to this. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:51, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:::I believe it's possible for this article to reach a reasonably NPOV status. Sadly, it's going to have to be near the bottom of my considerably long to-do list. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:45, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::I concur.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:04, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:::I obviously disagree with Merovingian. While it is ok to ''contrast'' BG with StarTrek, this should be done in a professional, matter-of-factly way, not by derisive comments and ''certainly'' not with plain falsehoods. It also should not be done with exaggerations by labelling everything "fantasy" that one doesn't like. It's totally ok if the ST/BSG issues "bring up strong emotions". But they should stay on talk pages, or the article be ''justly'' brought in question.

:::The comment that the BG universe is intentionally not "that advanced" is not tenable, and I already pointed that out above. Lasers are no "advanced" technology, they exist today. And if I have some kind of reactor which can give me enough energy to fold space, I have plenty of energy to cut open a sheet of metal. Remember that lasers capable of at least destroying a satellite or a warhead have already been worked on by 20th century engineers and scientists, but deemed not feasible for the forseeable future at that time. The prime limits, however, were energy and the material capable of handling it, and they are being overcome at this point in time with planned airborne anti-missile lasers at least. This is the main problem with the approach: Immensely advanced technology in two specific points (BG technology is already more advanced than that of Babylon 5 Earth in that they are capable of large-scale artificial gravity) but in most others a technological level on par with the third quarter of the 20th century. You speak of "realistic" weapons. Is it realistic that mankind researched practically only FTL travel and artificial gravity, and that this research did not bear fruit in other fields? And "realistic battle distances" are those at which you can hit your enemy. Of course when your weapon has a low effective range due to predict problems, then battle distance is short. If your weapon has near speed of light, it's entirely possible to engage your enemy at large distances.

:::Likewise, you still maintain some "inexhaustible" energy supply on the part of StarTrek, when that is not, in fact, the case. Hydrogen and antimatter tanks exist on Star Trek ships. Antimatter can be produced -again, that is no fantasy, but 20th century technology, albeit in larger quantities. And hydrogen can be gathered in space. Again, no fantasy, but the working principle behind the [[wikipedia:bussard ramjet|bussard ramscoop]] proposed as far back as 1960. This principle has been used by the likes of Heinlein, Niven, and Poul Anderson. As I already mentioned, Tylium has much bigger questions to answer.

:::By the way, dilithium crystals were already introduced in the original Star Trek series. This alone should illustrate that they can hardly be instrumental in the quality problems of late Star Trek. So I suggest rather than picking random aspects to actually get to specific points.

:::Point being: There's plenty of "technobabble" in StarTrek, but the cited examples are the least suitable to criticize that. They in fact fall back on the author, because they suggest being familiar neither with key concepts of the pioneers of astrophysics and ideas for interplanetary and interstellar space travel, nor with those of the pioneers of science fiction literature. And not the least, they fall back on BSG, because they suggest that there's a lot of hype about nothing.

:::While it's perfectly ok to cite that line from the series Bible, it's in my opinion not ok to uncritically reproduce it as holy writ. JMS started B5 with quite similar intentions, and that was ages ago. RDM is fallible. He's also capable of misdiagnosing. Doesn't matter, as long as he intuitively does the right thing. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 20:08, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::No. First, I always mean practically inexhaustible; using bussard ramscoops, starships can have a cheap and easily available source of fuel (gas clouds, etc.) while on BSG, Tylium is rare and hard to find. Second, this failed on the later Star Treks, even though it was present in all of the series, because the later ones ''overused'' these; every week the ship was spic and span and never had any problems finding fuel, fixing the ship, etc. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 20:36, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::While it's true that B5 adopted a "hard sci-fi" position with regard to some aspects, its atmosphere does not greatly resemble the new BSG's. "Naturalistic sci-fi" actually eschews accuracy when it interferes with story - the point is to tell a modern, relevant story in the clothing of science fiction. When realism on the show makes that connection clearer, it's an asset (the use of nukes, for example) - but when it doesn't serve the story, it's generally overlooked (artificial gravity, hyperspace).
::::The difference, I guess, is that BSG is "[[Wikipedia:The Day After|The Day After]]", B5 is a weird hybrid of "1984" and "The Lord of the Rings", and Star Wars is "The Hidden Fortress". Each one uses the trappings of literary sci-fi where it suits their purpose, and discards them where it doesn't. The concept of naturalistic sci-fi as defined by Moore is only relevant to the particular story he's trying to tell. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:27, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:::::Peter's comments detail the flaw of NSF better than anything I've read to date, and clarifies what he had been trying to tell me earlier here in talk. Any show is subject to the whim of the writer. While NSF tries to prevent ''technological'' limits to what they can write, NSF can also be selective of what is relevant or in need of explanation. With that, I'm aware of the needed revisions, and will do so when time allows to show a better opposing viewpoint to NSF in brief bullets. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:46, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::::I also, based on the above, would feel far more comfortable with Farago making the updates than Oliver. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:19, 13 February 2006 (EST)
::::::For the benefit of everyone who hasn't been on this wiki forever, I believe the prior comments Spencerian is referring to were on [[Talk:Science in the Re-imagined Series]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:10, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::::: I think it might also behoove us to compare some of RDM's intentions/plans and his executions of those to others who've tried to do the NSF thing. It's not like RDM invented the idea. We could talk about Niven, for one (for instance, he tried to make his Known Space stuff as "realistic" as he could, bar FTL travel) and probably Asimov (though I'm less familiar with his stuff... long "To Read:" list I've got). And, anyway, we could at least compare RDM's defenition of NSF to ones used by other story tellers in the past (whatever the media).

::::::: One note on '''combat ranges''': Just because my laser has an effective range of roughly a light-second doesn't mean I can actually hit a Raider or Viper that's that far away. I doubt I could see something that small against a black-with-stars background so far off. In short, "combat distance" is also a function of ship size.

::::::: Also, a note on '''realistic things''': Just because something is ''possible'' doesn't make it "realistic" for purposes of NSF. You get shot with a Disruptor, you vaporize. That probably sucks. They say on screen that it's excrutiating, but I watch it happen and it evokes aolmost no response from me. However, when Lee got shot in "[[Sacrifice]]", I winced and said, "Oh... bad." It looked very painful. This is similar to the note on using nukes vs. using photon torpedos. Something is realistic, if the average audience member has a good feel of what's involved in what they're seeing. Because I don't know how a laser work (I mean how it reacts to things and operates, not how to build one), it would mean less to me to see one being used. Similarly, I know, pretty well, anyway, what it feels like to be under about a G of gravity, thus, zero-G would actually be less "realistic" to me (and most viewers) because it is more foreign to our life experience. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:23, 14 February 2006 (EST)

I think we're closer than it sounds. Merovingian points out that technology was ''overused'' in later parts of Star Trek -or let's say the bad parts, because a lot of the problems already manifested in TNG. The point is not that these technologies are fantasy, they are for the most part (Heisenberg compensators aside) credible extrapolations of propositions that are being made today. The critical point that made a lot of stories bad was how they were used in the story, i.e. for example technical devices were introduced only to be able to resolve a plotline because writers couldn't come up with a more personal idea, or, God forbid, technical concepts being invented just for the sake of one single story and subsequently ignored because they make life a pain ("Force of Nature" However, that episode also showed that "tackling issues" is not always a good idea). That, however, is not a bad technological concept, it's plain bad storytelling. The answer against that is, of course, good storytelling. And I don't think that "going retro" is in and of itself a solution for that. Wing Commander-The movie showed that going retro in space can be quite problematic. Also, jargon in and of itself in my opinion is not really a problem, if used properly. Would the movie suffer if the commander did not order "Bow up 10, Stern down 7" in "Das Boot"? People can deduct with common sense and context that he's ordering something about the inclination of the boat, and the details aren't really that relevant. Point being: The technology issues are really missing the point, and where RDM pushes them, he's misdiagnosing in my eyes. Technology isn't the problem, but how it's used in the story is. ''@Day re:Combat range:'' You're of course right if targeting is visual only. But any spacecraft, no matter if radio silent or not, will be a source of electromagnetic radiation that will be travelling very fast with respect to anything in the background and against the backdrop of space likely also have a pretty recognizable infrared signature (It's not that hard to be warmer than background radiation). ''Re:Realistic:'' A lot of people have unrealistic expectations on a lot of issues, so personal connection and realism are distinct issues. Which is why science relies on methodology to peel apart the layers of how things work. Gut feelings can be quite useful, but aren't really a ledger of how real things are. As for being able to personally connect, I think the scene of Garibaldi being shot in the back in B5 had quite an impact on the audience, despite the fact that it was done with a PPG. Again, I think this is a situation in which actual story and presentation are much more important than the tool being used. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 12:37, 14 February 2006 (EST)

:Regarding combat ranges: Photonic crystals and other materials science advances will likely manage radar immunity of correctly operational (i.e., undamaged) vehicles well before we manage FTL or artifical gravity; emissions are entirely optional (IFF beacon, active radar, and "noise" from electronics being the only sources I can think of, the last of which is easily shielded). Infrared is just a kind of light, so all of the visibility problems are shared at significant ranges; the heat itself doesn't propagate in a vacuum, of course. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 01:37, 8 March 2006 (CST)

First of all please excuse me for any spelling errors, english is not my native tongue. What I think everybody fails to observe about artificial gravity and FTL travel is that the colonials did't develope it. They received it. The colonials migrated some 2-3000 years ago from a planet where they "lived with the gods". We don't know if they evolved on that planet or not, but what we do now is that a few indivduals on that planet were advanced enough (probably tehnology) so as to be considerd gods be the 13 tribes. By what many characters say in "Kobold's Last Gleming" and other episodes, the tribes were primitive: human sacrifices, excesive violence etc. The "gods" were probably trying to advance the tribes civilization but failed, one of them took her one life because of it (Athena). The tribes then left Kobol, and they probably did so in space craft equiped with artificial gravity and FTL drives that were build be the "gods". Some if not all of the members of the crews had to be capable to repair and maintain the tehnology, and they probably were able to replicate it and teach others how to do it. They did not need to understed the science behind it for that. For exemple a mechanic today can build an engine from scratch, but that dose't requiere him to know thermodynamics and material science. Repairing and maintaing FTL and artificial gravity was esential to the survival of the migrating tribes, weapons tehnology was not, neither was for that fact medicine, biology and other sciences. Considering how primitive they were, they were probably not more advanced in those matters then we were in early 20th century. After they arrived they regresed even more. Think of what will happen on New Caprica if they loose Baltar or doc Cottle, the only scientist and medic respectivly, before they manage to teach others. Even if the medics and scientist tramsmited ther knowledge, they probably lacked the infrastructure to maintain whatever advanced tehnolgy they had. The only exception to this rule were space based technolgys: FTL, sublight engines, artificial gravity and probably computer technolgy that were self suficient (it did't require planet based ifrastructure) and easy to maintain. It had to be like that otherwise it would not have got them from Kobol to the Colonies. So the sitution was likelly like that in A. E. van Vogt's novel "Empire of the Atom" were after some cataclysm humans had overall the technolgy level of the Roman Empire but were capable of interplanetary travel and had nuclear energy.(Armies from Earth were fighting on Mars and Venus with nothing more advanced then a bow and arrow and an iron sword, they did't even have gun powder). So the colonial civilization probably started from the same point (Roman Empire with ships) and evolved until it is now on the same level with our own except for FTL, artificial gravity, space propulsion and computer technolgy that were not developed by the colonials but received from individuals probably belonging to a more advaced civilization.
--[[User:DArhengel|DArhengel]] 16:34, 13 March 2006 (CST)

Here's what appears to be established: A) the neutrality of the article is compromised, as it's begun to paint ''Star Trek'' as a watse of time; completely inaccurate, etc. B) Because of RDM's involvement and its popularity, ''Star Trek'' is the best example by which to compare. There are many who have never seen Babylon 5, and StarGate is a completely different series of issues. C) it's actually a pretty easy article to fix- we just need to remove words such a "fanciful." [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 07:08, 29 March 2006 (CST)

==In defense of artificial gravity==

I believe it is a strawman argument to reason along the lines of "If they have artificial gravity then they should also be advanced enough to ... <insert obviously missing technology>". The reality is, it just isn't practical to do sci-fi without artificial gravity. Very few TV shows or movies have the staff and budget to realistically portray zero-g life which, in my opinion, would likely interfere with the storytelling. Yes, ''Babylon 5'' and ''2001'' used rotating hulls to avoid the problem, but even ''B5'' went to artificial gravity when it came to Minbari and Vorlon ships. Heck, the Vorlon ships were even organic ... sound familiar?

The point is that artificial gravity is basically unavoidable if you want to show space yarns and have your audience identify with the characters. You simply have to cut the producers some slack here.

The same reasoning applies to FTL, at least if you're doing interstellar travel. Without FTL or some equivalent technology (hyperspace, wormholes, space-folding etc.) you got no way for the same characters to appear in different places show after show.

So the obvious (to me) thing to do is ignore the tech level of the ''sine qua non'' of the genre, and focus on what's left. Viewers must allow for these two highly advanced technologies without considering them indicative of other technologies in that Universe. --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 14:14, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:Battlestar doesn't just depict FTL, they depict the ability of jumping into the middle of a group of moving objects (e.g. a fleet) safely, which suggests capability to determine that the destination spot is safe over jump distances. While FTL might be a sine qua non, jumping into hazardous terrain most definitely is not.

:B5 went to artificial gravity with other species thousands of years more advanced than humans (Remember the Minbari could put B4 to good use when they were provided with it roughly 1000 years before the show).

:While it is true that most shows have both artificial gravity and FTL, they generally present it in a background that has advanced in other fields as well. Even Blade Runner, with its unspecified advances in space travel enabling at least offworld colonies, presents a society akin, but still profoundly changed from ours. Technology and society don't evolve separate from each other, but influence each other. Even in the early dime novels, what was depicted -while usually very selective to only a handful of areas in its technological advancement- seemed advanced to people ''at that time''. Of course we can't expect a novel from the 1930s to anticipate biotechnology. But I see little reason to staple FTL and artificial gravity on mid-80s to early-90s technology. The problem is that aside from FTL and gravity, most of the technology seems, quite to the contrary, outdated. While the Galactica itself is supposed to be rather old, that shouldn't hold for what we see on Caprica or on the other ships.

:If the two technologies are not indicative of other technologies, that means there is an artificial rift in the background described. Such as rift, rather than allowing people to relate more, in my opinion distracts from the actual story. It's one thing to have such completely noncontinuous concepts in shows such as "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century", which quite visibly and fully explicitly stood in the tradition of early daily comic strip tradition (and in fact the first sci-fi comic strip to begin with) fully expected by audiences to have a certain degree of silliness and to have such rifts in a storyline with very tough and intellectually stimulating stories. It's a basic popcorn vs. brains issue. You either tell people to sit back, relax and have a good time or you tell them "Hey, think about this". If you tell people "Hey, think about this" while on a stage that falls apart when you think about it, you have a problem. And if you want people to sit back, relax and have a good time, then abortion, rape and lynch justice maybe aren't particularly fitting subjects. Disjunctions such as this work in avantgardistic stagings in theater and opera, because the audience knows they are being shown something symbolic, however such a treatment doesn't aim at people relating with the characters (who are rather archetypes) and it's rather antithetical to naturalism. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 10:42, 7 March 2006 (CST)

::I think, maybe, that jumps are more dangerous than you think. When plotting a mass-jump of The Fleet, maybe they can trigonomitry out any collisions, but in the most recent episode, a Raptor jumped right into a mountain. That doesn't seem so safe. Also, you're not allowing a story teller to say, "Hey. THink about abortion and rape and lynch justice." You're implying that the average Television viewer is either too dumb or lacks the descretion to realize that BSG is discussion social issues not (generally) scientific issues. RDM isn't saying, "Hey! Look at FTL drive." He's just using that to get you to look at other things. I don't think, by demanding the viewers to use their brains, RDM is demanding that we apply that to every little detail and condemn him for missing one. I mean--he's not crazy like Tolkien and writing primers on how to speak Gemenese or whatever. If he were, we'd have a more complete, pat world (as is Middle Earth), but we'd probably still be waiting for the Mini-Series to be made. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:43, 7 March 2006 (CST)

::::Well, there's a difference between a Raptor and a Battlestar. If a Raptor jumps into the middle of a fleet and realizes he's on a collision course, he might still be able to fire thrusters and escape. A battlestar would likely be unable to avoid a crash. You also seemed to misunderstand what I said about story vs. stage. FTL is part of the stage. Abortion, rape etc. are part of the story. No, I am not implying dumbness on part of the viewer. Quite the contrary. I think it's dumb to assume the viewer would not note discrepancies and disjunction in the background. And sorry, either you want people to use their brains, or you don't. It's highly questionable to tell people "Well, yes, you are supposed to think, but not about this, this, this, this and this...." That's not really thinking. It's being told what to think. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 10:01, 8 March 2006 (CST)

:::::Nothing ever done on BSG implies detection of problems at the destination; at least one jump into ambush contradicts it. Additionally, such detection is FTL communication without having to send a courier, which is contradicted. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 20:36, 8 March 2006 (CST)

::::: It's only being told what to think if BSG is the government or something. I'm not saying that you're disallowed to think about FTL drives in your life. I'm saying that a detailed discussion of FTL drives is ''tangental to the discussion that is BSG''. So, as the moderator of the discussion at hand, RDM is ''well'' within his rights to say what it is we are and aren't talking about. If we want to talk about FTL drives, we can go watch [[MemoryAlpha:Jean-Luc Picard|Professor X]] tool around the universe on [[MemoryAlpha:Geordi La Forge|Reading Rainbow]] or read a [[Wikipedia:A Brief History of Time|book by a paraplegic man]]. Those are other discussions. I guess, really, I'm saying, "Stay on topic." --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:34, 9 March 2006 (CST)

::If you want a society adapted to artificial gravity and FTL travel ''and technology on a par with that all around'', you are simply asking for too much. It's too much to even ask for a society fully adapted to the major advances.
::For example, let's think about FTL drives tactically. My first question is delay, which in BSG seems to be significant, followed by the allowablity of multiple drives per ship to have parallelized delays. This leads to a super-battlestar with, say, 30 FTL drives that can't be targeted effectively since it jumps every, say, 4 seconds. Think about a maximum-DRADIS-ranged FTL nuke that jumps to the side of its target (or a cloud of nerve gas or pyrophoric incendiary with an FTL drive to move it inside of an enemy ship). Think about minefields of these; n could easily protect a planet from n capital ships for far cheaper than n capital ships, leaving only fighters to mop up, assuming the mines cost more than CAPs, and they'd be even easier to target than lasers, since their own travel would be instant.
::Frankly, survivability of military hardware/personnel in space is horrible given serious thought. The USA, with far less resources than the colonies, had 23k nukes at peak and fields cruisers with 64-tube VLS's; just equipping every BSG capital ship with a bank of ~50 nuke launchers significantly reduces the odds of point-defense making any difference to survivability.
::FTL drives would be (in my opinion) vastly beyond current computation in design requirements; this would imply protein folding, e.g., is a reasonably routine kind of problem in BSG, and this implies an understanding of gene expression that's so vast in ramifications that cancer would have been a first course. The nonviolent causes of death list shortens dramatically.
::For that level of development in the hard sciences, one of the softer sciences must have solved ''something'' by the BSG present; there's no indication that any social, psychological, or economic problems we experience have been eradicated.
::None of these exist in BSG because they would not be fun to watch, or they have too vast a set of implications for us to identify with them. It is an absolute requirement to have such a rift for a show with BSG's themes. Accuracy and speculation on ramifications is delightful in print; excessive doses inhibit storytelling in video. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 01:37, 8 March 2006 (CST)

:::What I am asking for is a more continuous spectrum of technical development as opposed to a deep rift between one part and the rest. Inhibition in storytelling is not a bad thing, quite the contrary. Properly done, it prevents you from gambling away all credibility. If you want to connect with the viewer, the viewer has to believe you. If you tell an outrageous yarn, the viewer will be amused, but he won't see any further implications of what you told him above and beyond that amusement. Giving people something to think about usually translates to "Hm, difficult situation, how would I have acted?". That requires as a sine-qua-non premise that you consider the situation credible. If it's not, if you consider the situation posing itself as completely artificial, then you have no reason to consider it further. If it doesn't seem "true" to you, why ponder its implications? As RDM put it himself in his criticism of Voyager: "At some point the audience stops taking it seriously, because they know that this is not really the way this would happen. These people wouldn’t act like this." There are many reasons why "this is not really the way this would happen". One of them is that the specific constellation that leads to the situation wouldn't exist.

:::The key, however, is that for the claim of ''naturalistic'' storytelling to be accurate, specific parameters have to be fulfilled. These are by definition of naturalism not fulfilled if there is a disjunction between staging and story. Note: There's not a problem with having a disjunction between story and staging, but if you do, it's most certainly not "naturalistic". Cf. also [[Wikipedia:Naturalism (literature)]] which states "Note that even a fantastical genre such as science fiction can be naturalistic, as in the gritty, proletarian environment of the commercial space-freighter in Alien." However, in Alien we have sleeper pods and even the regular projectile weapons in Aliens -while based on 20th century weapons- are assembled in a fashion suggesting a level of advancement in firearms technology and more advanced weapons are hinted at in a special edition scene -and society has also changed in a way extrapolatable from today. The Sulaco very much has particle beam weapons, if only to disable electronics systems as well as lasers as point defense weapons. See, the problem is that "naturalistic science fiction" isn't really a new concept. It's been around for a while, be it in aspects of the Alien series, be it in "Outland", or even, for that matter, "Blade Runner". For that matter, a lot of ''Cyberpunk'' material has naturalistic traits. Not surprisingly, since William Gibson stated he was inspired by the implied background of "Alien" and was writing "Neuromancer" while Blade Runner was in theatres. Consequentially, it has also already been around on TV, even if some of the pertinent series were short-lived, such as Total Recall 2070. "Outland" has been called "Western in Space". Still, it does not figure sixguns nor Winchester lever-action repeating rifles, but modern shotguns in a very near-future scenario. If you want to do "West Wing" in space ''in a naturalistic fashion'', it's not enough to put Josiah Bartlet on a space ship while leaving the rest as it is. "Accuracy and speculation" are irrelevant when the technology is not even up to the technology level at the time of the airing of the show. There's nothing speculative about video conferencing. There's precious little speculative about the Land Warrior program. (In fact, "Aliens" was a pretty good anticipation of it in my eyes, despite predating the original Land Warrior program). There's not much speculation involved if you check army-technology.com or read Jane's. There's nothing speculative about using at least what's out there. But with the marines on BG running around with MP5s which are already being replaced on Earth was we speak by USPs and MP7s because of the proliferation of body armor, the technology level depicted is not even current, but in this and in many other fields, quite outdated. And MP7s have already been featured in Stargate, in Ghost in the Shell:SAC, in Stealth and in a whole bunch of computer games.

:::It is the hallmark of naturalism as an art form that it concerns itself with accuracy in details. Painters used scientific principles, authors researched their environment meticulously. Have you ever read parts of Emile Zola's Rougon-Macquard cycle? For "Germinal", Zola repeatedly visited mining towns in northern France and witnessed the after-effects of a large miners' strike -and even went down into a coal pit. If you say having a rift here is essential for BG -which I personally doubt- then BG by definition isn't naturalistic. Note: It is perfectly ok to have such a rift. Modern theatre performances have it, most of the time, as I already noted. But as Wikipedia notes, that is at best semi-naturalistic, with naturalism restricted to the delivery of the lines, and neither fully naturalistic nor "cinema verité". The 1966 movie "The battle of Algiers" painstakingly reconstructs the tactics of both the National Liberation Front as well as the French counter-insurgency. The filmmakers rejected the original layout by Sadi Yacef from his own memoirs because -despite being sympathetic to the Algerian cause, they found it too biased. The filmmakers spent two years in Algiers scouting locations and learning the customs and culture of the locals. If you dismiss restrictions as "limiting on video", you dismiss naturalism. Because naturalism by definition limits itself and demands truckloads of research. That's what naturalism is, and it's what cinema verite is, and if it's not what BG is, then BG is neither naturalistic nor done in a "cinema verite" style.
:::Is it fun to watch people being raped or murdered? Cinema verite doesn't really care if it's "fun" to watch. What it cares for is how things are. It lets its storytelling be limited by the way things work. It doesn't dismiss restrictions as "too limiting in storytelling". It is ''defined'' by restrictions. None of this means in any way that BG is bad -nor, as Merovingian recently accused me of, that I want to drag BG through the mud. It merely means that I think terminology is not being used appropriately, and that I think RDM is exaggerating some things. I still consider it great storytelling -I just consider the presentation artificial. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 10:01, 8 March 2006 (CST)

::::Assuming "Naturalistic Science Fiction" = "Naturalism" + "Science Fiction" would be nice, but, given definitions I've seen of each, is not right. I realize that, for consistency reasons, it should be true, but examples of far worse terminology exist. ("Planar graphs" are "graphs," but "plane graphs" aren't.)
::::They don't use video conferencing because they don't want to. They certainly '''have''' television, they just don't seem to be as obsessed with it as we are. Maybe they just have no interest in encrypting large amounts of data for something they don't need. More ciphertext transmitted is more to analyze; it's more plaintext/ciphertext pairs if a Cylon agent has access to either end. (Video is also notably easier to capture losslessly from a distance without even a direct tap.)
::::Land Warrior is a bunch of computers, displays, and radios designed to unify a mess of C&C, C4I, and ISTAR garbage into a mess of C4ISTAR garbage. That is, I'm not sure what it is in there that you think the Colonials are missing out on. Anyway, we haven't seen any groups of professional human land soldiers who were equipped to fight independently at length as part of a unit large enough to make hauling around C4ISTAR madness worthwhile.
::::The fact that some weapons carried by the Colonials on BSG look like MP5's is irrelevant. They obviously aren't supposed to be made to an H&K design, so they just happen to '''look like''' MP5's. What they fire is independent of what weapons that look alike do here and now. (Note they have also in the past carried weapons resembling P90's and Five-seveN's, which have a similar armor-piercing cartridge design to the MP7 ammo.) Best current miltary doctrine restricts the SMG/PDW/whatever to secondary roles, anyway; we could assume they normally carry full assault rifles with even better penetration for land war. For that matter, serious planetside soldiers probably carry SAW's and MANPADS's that cut down Centurions and aircraft like barley before Oktoberfest, probably at least one of each at the fireteam level; they probably thought of the whole "armored cavalry" thing, too. ''Ship's complements are equipped for inside ships, as would make sense.'' --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 20:36, 8 March 2006 (CST)

::::: Some good points, CAv. Well said. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:42, 9 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Naturalistic science fiction/Archive 1

2006-03-29T13:03:19Z

Ragestorm: /* In defense of artificial gravity */

==NPOV Request==
Ok, folks, I see some major problems with this article:
*A lot of it reads like it's the purpose of this site to bash Star Trek
*Some of it is quite simply false:
::In StarTrek, energy is ''not'' provided by "inexhaustible dylithium". Rather, the dilithium crystals serve as a matrix for a controlled matter/antimatter reaction, similar to moderators in a nuclear fission power plant (cf. http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/technology/article/2743.html ) As such, not being the fuel, they don't need to be exchanged beyond wear and tear. And matter/antimatter reaction is a very feasible energy source for huge amounts of energy. In fact, I doubt it is possible to get a higher efficiency. Compared to that, it is Tylium that is sheer fantasy.

::Photon torpedos, while glowing in animation, aren't "energy weapons" other than in having a matter/antimatter warhead. They are very solid vehicles.

::etc.

*Guns'n'bullets are very good weapons on a planet. In space, they have their uses, too, but they also have their limitations. Due to the immense speed theoretically possible in space and the relatively small speed of bullets compared to these, the useful range of regular projectile weapons is quite limited. At greater distance, psychic qualities would be necessary to predict where the target will be once the bullet is there. While energy weapons have issues of focussing, those aren't insurpassable. On the other hand, they have, in the case of a laser, speed of light, and in the case of a particle accelerator, close to that, meaning they can bridge even large distances in relatively short time. None of that is "fantasy", as the article suggests, but rather technology that exists today which requires miniaturization. So guns and bullets are quite ok as point defense weapons in space, but for anything further away, either guided weapons or weapons achieving a speed that is a significant fraction of the speed of light are necessary. One tends to think of huge vessels such as Galactica or a Cylon basestar as slow. But give them enough time to accelerate, and they can be whizzing by at several miles per second.

*While a lot of the stuff mentioned in the text might be RDM's intention, the question is how much it fulfills the claims raised. While obviously, there should be a place on this site to cite RDM, I believe that the individual articles of a Wiki should be a source of information were the creator's views are but one source of information. RDM's take is already provided with the link to Galactica2003.net and while it should be summarized here, I don't think it should be taken as holy writ.

The jetliner in space and other things might feel "naturalistic", but that doesn't mean it's a sound concept. The "plausible technical accuracy" in the "in theory" paragraph is a bold hypothesis. However, to me the setup honestly looks more like "doing soft SF with the bad stuff left out". And the "no deus ex machina" concept needs to be looked askance at vis-a-vis the cancer cure as well.

The ''stories'' Galactica has to tell are great, but I personally believe that as a consequence of RDM not wanting to "tie himself down" dramatically, what is lacking is a solid concept of the level of technology. A lot of things might look perfectly feasible when seen isolated, but on an overall level, I believe putting FTL (or quasi-FTL) and anti-gravity together with a lot of 20th and 21st century technology, and in some aspects apparently even less, RDM actually backpedaled to a lot of early SF, which had FTL travel because it was dramaturgically necessary, and some development in the physics department such as beam weapons, but lacked any development in biology. Likewise, BG shows technologies that suggest availability of humongous amounts of energy but shows little other use than one or two applications. This gives a discontinous impression of the technological level.

So, theoretically, my concerns would require a complete rewrite of the text, which is why I rather voiced them here before changing something. I believe, though, the false information re:StarTrek should be thrown out posthaste, since it weakens any other points. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 15:49, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:Over the months, this article has been edited to the point where it does have a bias towards "Star Trek," which, given its location in the pop SF food chain, is a deserved prime target. Yet, I agree, the article need not be a "Star Trek"-bashing article, but to contrast and compare it (and other series, such as another high level target, "Stargate SG-1") to what BSG strives to be. And, as you've noted in other articles, BSG isn't perfect. Rather than duplicating what is on the [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]] page, dividing the page by section with comments and comparison relevant to where NSF principles succeeded or failed so far in BSG could be useful. To aid in this, I've tagged this article with the (rarely used here) tag of disputed neutrality to get some attention. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:00, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::I must disagree ''' ''utterly'' ''' with OliverH's comments:
::*Yes, I agree with Spencerian that certain small tweaks should be made. However, if Oliver wanted to change small-sclae complaints like "inexhaustible dilithium crystals to "inexhaustible energy supply based on dilithium controlled matter/anti-matter reaction", he should simply have done so immediatly instead of forcing debate on the subject. Although "photon torpedos" are not energy weapons, phasers are; he should have just edited this accordingly, as he saw fit.
::*Yes, Guns aren't as good weapons as lasers. That doesn't change the fact that 1) At dogfight and regular battle distances, they're still pretty useful and 2) The BSG universe is intentionally not that technologically advanced. The fact that lasers are superior to guns doesn't change the fact that they still use these more "realistic" weapons. The entire point of that, of course, is more story design: being shot with bullets (i.e. [[Tarn]]), has more emotional impact than being shot with "lasers").
::*'''Yes, it is almost certainly the direct purpose of this article to critique Star Trek, by contrasting it with BSG'''. Oliver, the entire concept of making the new BSG was that it was RDM's "answer" to the poor quality of the later Star Treks (Voyager and Enterprise, rife with technobabble an implausibility), in this area as well. Quite frankly, it's impossible to separate the two: when the first page of the series bible states that "we propose nothing less than the re-invention of the scifi tv series genre"...it's kind of required that you make comparisons to the "old" model of the genre which was "re-invented". This part of the article must stand.
::*So, basically, '''no, your comments do not "require" a "complete rewrite of the text"'''. This is overboard. However, I do *commend* you on stating your feeling on the talk page instead of just making them without consensus. I would like to say that I do not mean to offend, Oliver, but these Star Trek/BSG issues bring up strong emotions. Like the silly pages and other talk-commentary, the "Naturalistic Science Fiction" page, is, by its very nature, going to be NPOV. '''I do agree''' with Spencerian's assessment that it could use some tweaking here or there, mostly for fact correction (dilithium, phasers,etc.) but the derision of Star Trek must remain, because BSG defines itself in opposition to this. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:51, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:::I believe it's possible for this article to reach a reasonably NPOV status. Sadly, it's going to have to be near the bottom of my considerably long to-do list. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:45, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::I concur.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:04, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:::I obviously disagree with Merovingian. While it is ok to ''contrast'' BG with StarTrek, this should be done in a professional, matter-of-factly way, not by derisive comments and ''certainly'' not with plain falsehoods. It also should not be done with exaggerations by labelling everything "fantasy" that one doesn't like. It's totally ok if the ST/BSG issues "bring up strong emotions". But they should stay on talk pages, or the article be ''justly'' brought in question.

:::The comment that the BG universe is intentionally not "that advanced" is not tenable, and I already pointed that out above. Lasers are no "advanced" technology, they exist today. And if I have some kind of reactor which can give me enough energy to fold space, I have plenty of energy to cut open a sheet of metal. Remember that lasers capable of at least destroying a satellite or a warhead have already been worked on by 20th century engineers and scientists, but deemed not feasible for the forseeable future at that time. The prime limits, however, were energy and the material capable of handling it, and they are being overcome at this point in time with planned airborne anti-missile lasers at least. This is the main problem with the approach: Immensely advanced technology in two specific points (BG technology is already more advanced than that of Babylon 5 Earth in that they are capable of large-scale artificial gravity) but in most others a technological level on par with the third quarter of the 20th century. You speak of "realistic" weapons. Is it realistic that mankind researched practically only FTL travel and artificial gravity, and that this research did not bear fruit in other fields? And "realistic battle distances" are those at which you can hit your enemy. Of course when your weapon has a low effective range due to predict problems, then battle distance is short. If your weapon has near speed of light, it's entirely possible to engage your enemy at large distances.

:::Likewise, you still maintain some "inexhaustible" energy supply on the part of StarTrek, when that is not, in fact, the case. Hydrogen and antimatter tanks exist on Star Trek ships. Antimatter can be produced -again, that is no fantasy, but 20th century technology, albeit in larger quantities. And hydrogen can be gathered in space. Again, no fantasy, but the working principle behind the [[wikipedia:bussard ramjet|bussard ramscoop]] proposed as far back as 1960. This principle has been used by the likes of Heinlein, Niven, and Poul Anderson. As I already mentioned, Tylium has much bigger questions to answer.

:::By the way, dilithium crystals were already introduced in the original Star Trek series. This alone should illustrate that they can hardly be instrumental in the quality problems of late Star Trek. So I suggest rather than picking random aspects to actually get to specific points.

:::Point being: There's plenty of "technobabble" in StarTrek, but the cited examples are the least suitable to criticize that. They in fact fall back on the author, because they suggest being familiar neither with key concepts of the pioneers of astrophysics and ideas for interplanetary and interstellar space travel, nor with those of the pioneers of science fiction literature. And not the least, they fall back on BSG, because they suggest that there's a lot of hype about nothing.

:::While it's perfectly ok to cite that line from the series Bible, it's in my opinion not ok to uncritically reproduce it as holy writ. JMS started B5 with quite similar intentions, and that was ages ago. RDM is fallible. He's also capable of misdiagnosing. Doesn't matter, as long as he intuitively does the right thing. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 20:08, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::No. First, I always mean practically inexhaustible; using bussard ramscoops, starships can have a cheap and easily available source of fuel (gas clouds, etc.) while on BSG, Tylium is rare and hard to find. Second, this failed on the later Star Treks, even though it was present in all of the series, because the later ones ''overused'' these; every week the ship was spic and span and never had any problems finding fuel, fixing the ship, etc. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 20:36, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::While it's true that B5 adopted a "hard sci-fi" position with regard to some aspects, its atmosphere does not greatly resemble the new BSG's. "Naturalistic sci-fi" actually eschews accuracy when it interferes with story - the point is to tell a modern, relevant story in the clothing of science fiction. When realism on the show makes that connection clearer, it's an asset (the use of nukes, for example) - but when it doesn't serve the story, it's generally overlooked (artificial gravity, hyperspace).
::::The difference, I guess, is that BSG is "[[Wikipedia:The Day After|The Day After]]", B5 is a weird hybrid of "1984" and "The Lord of the Rings", and Star Wars is "The Hidden Fortress". Each one uses the trappings of literary sci-fi where it suits their purpose, and discards them where it doesn't. The concept of naturalistic sci-fi as defined by Moore is only relevant to the particular story he's trying to tell. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:27, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:::::Peter's comments detail the flaw of NSF better than anything I've read to date, and clarifies what he had been trying to tell me earlier here in talk. Any show is subject to the whim of the writer. While NSF tries to prevent ''technological'' limits to what they can write, NSF can also be selective of what is relevant or in need of explanation. With that, I'm aware of the needed revisions, and will do so when time allows to show a better opposing viewpoint to NSF in brief bullets. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:46, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::::I also, based on the above, would feel far more comfortable with Farago making the updates than Oliver. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 21:19, 13 February 2006 (EST)
::::::For the benefit of everyone who hasn't been on this wiki forever, I believe the prior comments Spencerian is referring to were on [[Talk:Science in the Re-imagined Series]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:10, 13 February 2006 (EST)

::::::: I think it might also behoove us to compare some of RDM's intentions/plans and his executions of those to others who've tried to do the NSF thing. It's not like RDM invented the idea. We could talk about Niven, for one (for instance, he tried to make his Known Space stuff as "realistic" as he could, bar FTL travel) and probably Asimov (though I'm less familiar with his stuff... long "To Read:" list I've got). And, anyway, we could at least compare RDM's defenition of NSF to ones used by other story tellers in the past (whatever the media).

::::::: One note on '''combat ranges''': Just because my laser has an effective range of roughly a light-second doesn't mean I can actually hit a Raider or Viper that's that far away. I doubt I could see something that small against a black-with-stars background so far off. In short, "combat distance" is also a function of ship size.

::::::: Also, a note on '''realistic things''': Just because something is ''possible'' doesn't make it "realistic" for purposes of NSF. You get shot with a Disruptor, you vaporize. That probably sucks. They say on screen that it's excrutiating, but I watch it happen and it evokes aolmost no response from me. However, when Lee got shot in "[[Sacrifice]]", I winced and said, "Oh... bad." It looked very painful. This is similar to the note on using nukes vs. using photon torpedos. Something is realistic, if the average audience member has a good feel of what's involved in what they're seeing. Because I don't know how a laser work (I mean how it reacts to things and operates, not how to build one), it would mean less to me to see one being used. Similarly, I know, pretty well, anyway, what it feels like to be under about a G of gravity, thus, zero-G would actually be less "realistic" to me (and most viewers) because it is more foreign to our life experience. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:23, 14 February 2006 (EST)

I think we're closer than it sounds. Merovingian points out that technology was ''overused'' in later parts of Star Trek -or let's say the bad parts, because a lot of the problems already manifested in TNG. The point is not that these technologies are fantasy, they are for the most part (Heisenberg compensators aside) credible extrapolations of propositions that are being made today. The critical point that made a lot of stories bad was how they were used in the story, i.e. for example technical devices were introduced only to be able to resolve a plotline because writers couldn't come up with a more personal idea, or, God forbid, technical concepts being invented just for the sake of one single story and subsequently ignored because they make life a pain ("Force of Nature" However, that episode also showed that "tackling issues" is not always a good idea). That, however, is not a bad technological concept, it's plain bad storytelling. The answer against that is, of course, good storytelling. And I don't think that "going retro" is in and of itself a solution for that. Wing Commander-The movie showed that going retro in space can be quite problematic. Also, jargon in and of itself in my opinion is not really a problem, if used properly. Would the movie suffer if the commander did not order "Bow up 10, Stern down 7" in "Das Boot"? People can deduct with common sense and context that he's ordering something about the inclination of the boat, and the details aren't really that relevant. Point being: The technology issues are really missing the point, and where RDM pushes them, he's misdiagnosing in my eyes. Technology isn't the problem, but how it's used in the story is. ''@Day re:Combat range:'' You're of course right if targeting is visual only. But any spacecraft, no matter if radio silent or not, will be a source of electromagnetic radiation that will be travelling very fast with respect to anything in the background and against the backdrop of space likely also have a pretty recognizable infrared signature (It's not that hard to be warmer than background radiation). ''Re:Realistic:'' A lot of people have unrealistic expectations on a lot of issues, so personal connection and realism are distinct issues. Which is why science relies on methodology to peel apart the layers of how things work. Gut feelings can be quite useful, but aren't really a ledger of how real things are. As for being able to personally connect, I think the scene of Garibaldi being shot in the back in B5 had quite an impact on the audience, despite the fact that it was done with a PPG. Again, I think this is a situation in which actual story and presentation are much more important than the tool being used. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 12:37, 14 February 2006 (EST)

:Regarding combat ranges: Photonic crystals and other materials science advances will likely manage radar immunity of correctly operational (i.e., undamaged) vehicles well before we manage FTL or artifical gravity; emissions are entirely optional (IFF beacon, active radar, and "noise" from electronics being the only sources I can think of, the last of which is easily shielded). Infrared is just a kind of light, so all of the visibility problems are shared at significant ranges; the heat itself doesn't propagate in a vacuum, of course. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 01:37, 8 March 2006 (CST)

First of all please excuse me for any spelling errors, english is not my native tongue. What I think everybody fails to observe about artificial gravity and FTL travel is that the colonials did't develope it. They received it. The colonials migrated some 2-3000 years ago from a planet where they "lived with the gods". We don't know if they evolved on that planet or not, but what we do now is that a few indivduals on that planet were advanced enough (probably tehnology) so as to be considerd gods be the 13 tribes. By what many characters say in "Kobold's Last Gleming" and other episodes, the tribes were primitive: human sacrifices, excesive violence etc. The "gods" were probably trying to advance the tribes civilization but failed, one of them took her one life because of it (Athena). The tribes then left Kobol, and they probably did so in space craft equiped with artificial gravity and FTL drives that were build be the "gods". Some if not all of the members of the crews had to be capable to repair and maintain the tehnology, and they probably were able to replicate it and teach others how to do it. They did not need to understed the science behind it for that. For exemple a mechanic today can build an engine from scratch, but that dose't requiere him to know thermodynamics and material science. Repairing and maintaing FTL and artificial gravity was esential to the survival of the migrating tribes, weapons tehnology was not, neither was for that fact medicine, biology and other sciences. Considering how primitive they were, they were probably not more advanced in those matters then we were in early 20th century. After they arrived they regresed even more. Think of what will happen on New Caprica if they loose Baltar or doc Cottle, the only scientist and medic respectivly, before they manage to teach others. Even if the medics and scientist tramsmited ther knowledge, they probably lacked the infrastructure to maintain whatever advanced tehnolgy they had. The only exception to this rule were space based technolgys: FTL, sublight engines, artificial gravity and probably computer technolgy that were self suficient (it did't require planet based ifrastructure) and easy to maintain. It had to be like that otherwise it would not have got them from Kobol to the Colonies. So the sitution was likelly like that in A. E. van Vogt's novel "Empire of the Atom" were after some cataclysm humans had overall the technolgy level of the Roman Empire but were capable of interplanetary travel and had nuclear energy.(Armies from Earth were fighting on Mars and Venus with nothing more advanced then a bow and arrow and an iron sword, they did't even have gun powder). So the colonial civilization probably started from the same point (Roman Empire with ships) and evolved until it is now on the same level with our own except for FTL, artificial gravity, space propulsion and computer technolgy that were not developed by the colonials but received from individuals probably belonging to a more advaced civilization.
--[[User:DArhengel|DArhengel]] 16:34, 13 March 2006 (CST)

==In defense of artificial gravity==

I believe it is a strawman argument to reason along the lines of "If they have artificial gravity then they should also be advanced enough to ... <insert obviously missing technology>". The reality is, it just isn't practical to do sci-fi without artificial gravity. Very few TV shows or movies have the staff and budget to realistically portray zero-g life which, in my opinion, would likely interfere with the storytelling. Yes, ''Babylon 5'' and ''2001'' used rotating hulls to avoid the problem, but even ''B5'' went to artificial gravity when it came to Minbari and Vorlon ships. Heck, the Vorlon ships were even organic ... sound familiar?

The point is that artificial gravity is basically unavoidable if you want to show space yarns and have your audience identify with the characters. You simply have to cut the producers some slack here.

The same reasoning applies to FTL, at least if you're doing interstellar travel. Without FTL or some equivalent technology (hyperspace, wormholes, space-folding etc.) you got no way for the same characters to appear in different places show after show.

So the obvious (to me) thing to do is ignore the tech level of the ''sine qua non'' of the genre, and focus on what's left. Viewers must allow for these two highly advanced technologies without considering them indicative of other technologies in that Universe. --[[User:JohnH|JohnH]] 14:14, 5 March 2006 (CST)

:Battlestar doesn't just depict FTL, they depict the ability of jumping into the middle of a group of moving objects (e.g. a fleet) safely, which suggests capability to determine that the destination spot is safe over jump distances. While FTL might be a sine qua non, jumping into hazardous terrain most definitely is not.

:B5 went to artificial gravity with other species thousands of years more advanced than humans (Remember the Minbari could put B4 to good use when they were provided with it roughly 1000 years before the show).

:While it is true that most shows have both artificial gravity and FTL, they generally present it in a background that has advanced in other fields as well. Even Blade Runner, with its unspecified advances in space travel enabling at least offworld colonies, presents a society akin, but still profoundly changed from ours. Technology and society don't evolve separate from each other, but influence each other. Even in the early dime novels, what was depicted -while usually very selective to only a handful of areas in its technological advancement- seemed advanced to people ''at that time''. Of course we can't expect a novel from the 1930s to anticipate biotechnology. But I see little reason to staple FTL and artificial gravity on mid-80s to early-90s technology. The problem is that aside from FTL and gravity, most of the technology seems, quite to the contrary, outdated. While the Galactica itself is supposed to be rather old, that shouldn't hold for what we see on Caprica or on the other ships.

:If the two technologies are not indicative of other technologies, that means there is an artificial rift in the background described. Such as rift, rather than allowing people to relate more, in my opinion distracts from the actual story. It's one thing to have such completely noncontinuous concepts in shows such as "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century", which quite visibly and fully explicitly stood in the tradition of early daily comic strip tradition (and in fact the first sci-fi comic strip to begin with) fully expected by audiences to have a certain degree of silliness and to have such rifts in a storyline with very tough and intellectually stimulating stories. It's a basic popcorn vs. brains issue. You either tell people to sit back, relax and have a good time or you tell them "Hey, think about this". If you tell people "Hey, think about this" while on a stage that falls apart when you think about it, you have a problem. And if you want people to sit back, relax and have a good time, then abortion, rape and lynch justice maybe aren't particularly fitting subjects. Disjunctions such as this work in avantgardistic stagings in theater and opera, because the audience knows they are being shown something symbolic, however such a treatment doesn't aim at people relating with the characters (who are rather archetypes) and it's rather antithetical to naturalism. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 10:42, 7 March 2006 (CST)

::I think, maybe, that jumps are more dangerous than you think. When plotting a mass-jump of The Fleet, maybe they can trigonomitry out any collisions, but in the most recent episode, a Raptor jumped right into a mountain. That doesn't seem so safe. Also, you're not allowing a story teller to say, "Hey. THink about abortion and rape and lynch justice." You're implying that the average Television viewer is either too dumb or lacks the descretion to realize that BSG is discussion social issues not (generally) scientific issues. RDM isn't saying, "Hey! Look at FTL drive." He's just using that to get you to look at other things. I don't think, by demanding the viewers to use their brains, RDM is demanding that we apply that to every little detail and condemn him for missing one. I mean--he's not crazy like Tolkien and writing primers on how to speak Gemenese or whatever. If he were, we'd have a more complete, pat world (as is Middle Earth), but we'd probably still be waiting for the Mini-Series to be made. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:43, 7 March 2006 (CST)

::::Well, there's a difference between a Raptor and a Battlestar. If a Raptor jumps into the middle of a fleet and realizes he's on a collision course, he might still be able to fire thrusters and escape. A battlestar would likely be unable to avoid a crash. You also seemed to misunderstand what I said about story vs. stage. FTL is part of the stage. Abortion, rape etc. are part of the story. No, I am not implying dumbness on part of the viewer. Quite the contrary. I think it's dumb to assume the viewer would not note discrepancies and disjunction in the background. And sorry, either you want people to use their brains, or you don't. It's highly questionable to tell people "Well, yes, you are supposed to think, but not about this, this, this, this and this...." That's not really thinking. It's being told what to think. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 10:01, 8 March 2006 (CST)

:::::Nothing ever done on BSG implies detection of problems at the destination; at least one jump into ambush contradicts it. Additionally, such detection is FTL communication without having to send a courier, which is contradicted. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 20:36, 8 March 2006 (CST)

::::: It's only being told what to think if BSG is the government or something. I'm not saying that you're disallowed to think about FTL drives in your life. I'm saying that a detailed discussion of FTL drives is ''tangental to the discussion that is BSG''. So, as the moderator of the discussion at hand, RDM is ''well'' within his rights to say what it is we are and aren't talking about. If we want to talk about FTL drives, we can go watch [[MemoryAlpha:Jean-Luc Picard|Professor X]] tool around the universe on [[MemoryAlpha:Geordi La Forge|Reading Rainbow]] or read a [[Wikipedia:A Brief History of Time|book by a paraplegic man]]. Those are other discussions. I guess, really, I'm saying, "Stay on topic." --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:34, 9 March 2006 (CST)

::If you want a society adapted to artificial gravity and FTL travel ''and technology on a par with that all around'', you are simply asking for too much. It's too much to even ask for a society fully adapted to the major advances.
::For example, let's think about FTL drives tactically. My first question is delay, which in BSG seems to be significant, followed by the allowablity of multiple drives per ship to have parallelized delays. This leads to a super-battlestar with, say, 30 FTL drives that can't be targeted effectively since it jumps every, say, 4 seconds. Think about a maximum-DRADIS-ranged FTL nuke that jumps to the side of its target (or a cloud of nerve gas or pyrophoric incendiary with an FTL drive to move it inside of an enemy ship). Think about minefields of these; n could easily protect a planet from n capital ships for far cheaper than n capital ships, leaving only fighters to mop up, assuming the mines cost more than CAPs, and they'd be even easier to target than lasers, since their own travel would be instant.
::Frankly, survivability of military hardware/personnel in space is horrible given serious thought. The USA, with far less resources than the colonies, had 23k nukes at peak and fields cruisers with 64-tube VLS's; just equipping every BSG capital ship with a bank of ~50 nuke launchers significantly reduces the odds of point-defense making any difference to survivability.
::FTL drives would be (in my opinion) vastly beyond current computation in design requirements; this would imply protein folding, e.g., is a reasonably routine kind of problem in BSG, and this implies an understanding of gene expression that's so vast in ramifications that cancer would have been a first course. The nonviolent causes of death list shortens dramatically.
::For that level of development in the hard sciences, one of the softer sciences must have solved ''something'' by the BSG present; there's no indication that any social, psychological, or economic problems we experience have been eradicated.
::None of these exist in BSG because they would not be fun to watch, or they have too vast a set of implications for us to identify with them. It is an absolute requirement to have such a rift for a show with BSG's themes. Accuracy and speculation on ramifications is delightful in print; excessive doses inhibit storytelling in video. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 01:37, 8 March 2006 (CST)

:::What I am asking for is a more continuous spectrum of technical development as opposed to a deep rift between one part and the rest. Inhibition in storytelling is not a bad thing, quite the contrary. Properly done, it prevents you from gambling away all credibility. If you want to connect with the viewer, the viewer has to believe you. If you tell an outrageous yarn, the viewer will be amused, but he won't see any further implications of what you told him above and beyond that amusement. Giving people something to think about usually translates to "Hm, difficult situation, how would I have acted?". That requires as a sine-qua-non premise that you consider the situation credible. If it's not, if you consider the situation posing itself as completely artificial, then you have no reason to consider it further. If it doesn't seem "true" to you, why ponder its implications? As RDM put it himself in his criticism of Voyager: "At some point the audience stops taking it seriously, because they know that this is not really the way this would happen. These people wouldn’t act like this." There are many reasons why "this is not really the way this would happen". One of them is that the specific constellation that leads to the situation wouldn't exist.

:::The key, however, is that for the claim of ''naturalistic'' storytelling to be accurate, specific parameters have to be fulfilled. These are by definition of naturalism not fulfilled if there is a disjunction between staging and story. Note: There's not a problem with having a disjunction between story and staging, but if you do, it's most certainly not "naturalistic". Cf. also [[Wikipedia:Naturalism (literature)]] which states "Note that even a fantastical genre such as science fiction can be naturalistic, as in the gritty, proletarian environment of the commercial space-freighter in Alien." However, in Alien we have sleeper pods and even the regular projectile weapons in Aliens -while based on 20th century weapons- are assembled in a fashion suggesting a level of advancement in firearms technology and more advanced weapons are hinted at in a special edition scene -and society has also changed in a way extrapolatable from today. The Sulaco very much has particle beam weapons, if only to disable electronics systems as well as lasers as point defense weapons. See, the problem is that "naturalistic science fiction" isn't really a new concept. It's been around for a while, be it in aspects of the Alien series, be it in "Outland", or even, for that matter, "Blade Runner". For that matter, a lot of ''Cyberpunk'' material has naturalistic traits. Not surprisingly, since William Gibson stated he was inspired by the implied background of "Alien" and was writing "Neuromancer" while Blade Runner was in theatres. Consequentially, it has also already been around on TV, even if some of the pertinent series were short-lived, such as Total Recall 2070. "Outland" has been called "Western in Space". Still, it does not figure sixguns nor Winchester lever-action repeating rifles, but modern shotguns in a very near-future scenario. If you want to do "West Wing" in space ''in a naturalistic fashion'', it's not enough to put Josiah Bartlet on a space ship while leaving the rest as it is. "Accuracy and speculation" are irrelevant when the technology is not even up to the technology level at the time of the airing of the show. There's nothing speculative about video conferencing. There's precious little speculative about the Land Warrior program. (In fact, "Aliens" was a pretty good anticipation of it in my eyes, despite predating the original Land Warrior program). There's not much speculation involved if you check army-technology.com or read Jane's. There's nothing speculative about using at least what's out there. But with the marines on BG running around with MP5s which are already being replaced on Earth was we speak by USPs and MP7s because of the proliferation of body armor, the technology level depicted is not even current, but in this and in many other fields, quite outdated. And MP7s have already been featured in Stargate, in Ghost in the Shell:SAC, in Stealth and in a whole bunch of computer games.

:::It is the hallmark of naturalism as an art form that it concerns itself with accuracy in details. Painters used scientific principles, authors researched their environment meticulously. Have you ever read parts of Emile Zola's Rougon-Macquard cycle? For "Germinal", Zola repeatedly visited mining towns in northern France and witnessed the after-effects of a large miners' strike -and even went down into a coal pit. If you say having a rift here is essential for BG -which I personally doubt- then BG by definition isn't naturalistic. Note: It is perfectly ok to have such a rift. Modern theatre performances have it, most of the time, as I already noted. But as Wikipedia notes, that is at best semi-naturalistic, with naturalism restricted to the delivery of the lines, and neither fully naturalistic nor "cinema verité". The 1966 movie "The battle of Algiers" painstakingly reconstructs the tactics of both the National Liberation Front as well as the French counter-insurgency. The filmmakers rejected the original layout by Sadi Yacef from his own memoirs because -despite being sympathetic to the Algerian cause, they found it too biased. The filmmakers spent two years in Algiers scouting locations and learning the customs and culture of the locals. If you dismiss restrictions as "limiting on video", you dismiss naturalism. Because naturalism by definition limits itself and demands truckloads of research. That's what naturalism is, and it's what cinema verite is, and if it's not what BG is, then BG is neither naturalistic nor done in a "cinema verite" style.
:::Is it fun to watch people being raped or murdered? Cinema verite doesn't really care if it's "fun" to watch. What it cares for is how things are. It lets its storytelling be limited by the way things work. It doesn't dismiss restrictions as "too limiting in storytelling". It is ''defined'' by restrictions. None of this means in any way that BG is bad -nor, as Merovingian recently accused me of, that I want to drag BG through the mud. It merely means that I think terminology is not being used appropriately, and that I think RDM is exaggerating some things. I still consider it great storytelling -I just consider the presentation artificial. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 10:01, 8 March 2006 (CST)

::::Assuming "Naturalistic Science Fiction" = "Naturalism" + "Science Fiction" would be nice, but, given definitions I've seen of each, is not right. I realize that, for consistency reasons, it should be true, but examples of far worse terminology exist. ("Planar graphs" are "graphs," but "plane graphs" aren't.)
::::They don't use video conferencing because they don't want to. They certainly '''have''' television, they just don't seem to be as obsessed with it as we are. Maybe they just have no interest in encrypting large amounts of data for something they don't need. More ciphertext transmitted is more to analyze; it's more plaintext/ciphertext pairs if a Cylon agent has access to either end. (Video is also notably easier to capture losslessly from a distance without even a direct tap.)
::::Land Warrior is a bunch of computers, displays, and radios designed to unify a mess of C&C, C4I, and ISTAR garbage into a mess of C4ISTAR garbage. That is, I'm not sure what it is in there that you think the Colonials are missing out on. Anyway, we haven't seen any groups of professional human land soldiers who were equipped to fight independently at length as part of a unit large enough to make hauling around C4ISTAR madness worthwhile.
::::The fact that some weapons carried by the Colonials on BSG look like MP5's is irrelevant. They obviously aren't supposed to be made to an H&K design, so they just happen to '''look like''' MP5's. What they fire is independent of what weapons that look alike do here and now. (Note they have also in the past carried weapons resembling P90's and Five-seveN's, which have a similar armor-piercing cartridge design to the MP7 ammo.) Best current miltary doctrine restricts the SMG/PDW/whatever to secondary roles, anyway; we could assume they normally carry full assault rifles with even better penetration for land war. For that matter, serious planetside soldiers probably carry SAW's and MANPADS's that cut down Centurions and aircraft like barley before Oktoberfest, probably at least one of each at the fireteam level; they probably thought of the whole "armored cavalry" thing, too. ''Ship's complements are equipped for inside ships, as would make sense.'' --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 20:36, 8 March 2006 (CST)

::::: Some good points, CAv. Well said. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:42, 9 March 2006 (CST)

Sherman Cottle

2006-03-29T00:12:48Z

Ragestorm:

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:bsg-cottle-1.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= Unknown
|birthname=
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Physician on New Caprica, former Chief Medical Officer, ''[[Battlestar]] [[Galactica]]''
|rank= Major
|actor= [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Donnelly+Rhodes Donnelly Rhodes]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

'''Doctor Cottle''' is [[Galactica type battlestar|Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'s'' irascible Chief Medical Officer ([[CMO]]). Because the ship is operating with a minimal crew compliment leading up to its expected decommissioning, Cottle is the only real physician/surgeon aboard ''Galactica'' (perhaps in the entire [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]), supported by a handful of medics such as [[Layne Ishay]] and [[Howard Kim]]. Cottle is somewhat eccentric -- a heavy smoker, despite knowing the risks, and one not overly impressed by positions of power. He is, above all things, a healer- to him nothing else really matters, be it rank, riches, or species.

== Biography ==

Cottle is the third person in the Fleet to learn about President [[Laura Roslin]]'s fight with cancer ([[Act of Contrition]]), after [[Lee Adama]] ([[Bastille Day]]) and [[Billy Keikeya]] ([[Miniseries]]). He agrees to treat her condition, without revealing it to anyone else, and further agrees to support more unorthodox treatments such as [[Chamalla]] extract. Knowing the extent of her illness and Roslin's reluctance to undergo [[diloxin]] therapy, the doctor also recommends prayer.

Cottle takes a personal interest in [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck's]] recovery after she breaks her leg during a mission ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]). The doctor works with Lee Adama to get her out of sickbay ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]) without initial success.

Grumpy of attitude, yet always professional, Cottle instantly inspires trust, despite his attitude.

After the [[assassination|assassination attempt]] on [[William Adama]], ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]) Cottle is unavailable to stabilize the Commander as he is aboard another ship in the Fleet. Matters worsen after ''Galactica'''s emergency [[FTL|Jump]] separates Cottle and the battlestar. [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] orders Cottle's medics to stop Adama's internal bleeding ([[Scattered]]). However, while the medics stabilize the Commander's condition, they are unable to fully stop his bleeding. Cottle finally arrives and is able to operate on Commander Adama. After much risky work, the doctor saves Adama's life ([[Fragged]]).

Cottle speaks rather contemptuously of Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]'s authority. When Tigh asks of Adama's condition as Cottle begins surgery to save the Commander's life, he tells the XO, "How should I know? I'm not a psychic. Now get the hell out of here" ([[Fragged]]). Later, after Tigh orders an ill-advised attempt to restore supply runs to ''Galactica'' on the ''[[Gideon]]'', resulting in four civilian deaths, Cottle is anything but sympathetic when Tigh asks what happened: "What'd you expect, genius? You put a pilot in charge of crowd control" ([[Resistance]]).

At the request of President Roslin, despite her straight-to-the-point warning about its illegality and danger (Cottle: "You're a lousy salesman."), he assists Roslin in escaping ''Galactica'' by filing a request for a [[Raptor]] flight away from the battlestar, to care for patients on other ships. Roslin leaves ''Galactica'' on this "appropriated" Raptor with [[Lee Adama]] at the helm ([[Resistance]]).

Major Cottle performs a series of medical scans on [[Gaius Baltar]]'s head at Baltar's request. Unknown to Cottle, Baltar is looking to see if there is a Cylon computer chip implanted into his brain. The scans show absolutely nothing unusual, and Cottle dismisses Baltar as a hypochondriac ([[Home, Part II]]).

Even Cottle's stony exterior gives way to the pain he sees on Laura Roslin's face when he gives her a new prognosis on her fight with cancer. Her cancer has spread aggressively, and the good doctor gives Roslin, on the outside, one month to live ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). His concern for Cylon Sharon Valerii and her unborn hybrid child is remarkable, especially in the face of the rest of the crew's distrust and even hatred of her, hinting at his extremely strict sense of medical ethics. He described her attempted rape by Lt. Thorne as "unforgivable," (and looked ready to beat back anyone who disagreed) and voiced his opposition to Baltar using Sharon's baby's blood as a cure for Roslin's cancer ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]," "[[Epiphanies]]").

Cottle has gained a reputation among the fleet for performing abortions. When [[Rya Kibby]], a young Gemenese girl, wanted to end her pregnancy, she stowed away to get aboard ''Galactica'' and see Cottle. Cottle explained the situation to Admiral Adama by acknowledging, "I get a note that a girl's on the way. She arrives. I do my work. And then she leaves. I don't ask a lot of questions." When Admiral Adama asked Rya to return to her parents, Cottle suggested that the girl instead request political asylum aboard ''Galactica'', earning a stare from Adama. ("[[The Captain's Hand]]")

Cottle's outspokenness could be attributed to the fact that, as one of the few remaining doctors left in the Fleet, he is far too important to the Fleet to penalize for acts of insubordination that anyone else would be punished for. It's also possible that Dr. Cottle's personality is a result of the stresses of the Cylon holocaust. Given his advanced age, Cottle was likely on the verge of retirement when he was forced to spend his twilight years in space, trying desperately to meet a far-too-high level of demand for his services.

After the election of President [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] and the settlement of [[New Caprica]] Cottle, like most of ''Galactica'''s crew, retires from military duty. One year after the election he is still serving as a doctor on New Caprica in private practice ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

== Notes ==

*Cottle's counterpart in the [[TOS|Original Series]] is [[Salik]].
*In accordance with [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron D. Moore]]'s [[naturalistic science fiction]] principles used to form the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined series]], unlike [[MemoryAlpha:Leonard McCoy|another popular medical officer]] in television science fiction, Cottle's personality is grumpy, callous, and rude.
*In the DVD commentary for "[[Act of Contrition]]", RDM states that actor Donnelly Rhodes was one of the three finalists up for the role of Col. [[Saul Tigh]], though in the end the part was given to one of the other finalists, [[Michael Hogan]].

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Sherman Cottle

2006-03-29T00:11:04Z

Ragestorm: /* Biography */

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:bsg-cottle-1.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= Unknown
|birthname=
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Physician on New Caprica, former Chief Medical Officer, ''[[Battlestar]] [[Galactica]]''
|rank= Major
|actor= [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Donnelly+Rhodes Donnelly Rhodes]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

'''Doctor Cottle''' is [[Galactica type battlestar|Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'s'' irascible Chief Medical Officer ([[CMO]]). Because the ship is operating with a minimal crew compliment leading up to its expected decommissioning, Cottle is the only real physician/surgeon aboard ''Galactica'' (perhaps in the entire [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]), supported by a handful of medics such as [[Layne Ishay]] and [[Howard Kim]]. Cottle is somewhat eccentric -- a heavy smoker, despite knowing the risks, and one not overly impressed by positions of power.

== Biography ==

Cottle is the third person in the Fleet to learn about President [[Laura Roslin]]'s fight with cancer ([[Act of Contrition]]), after [[Lee Adama]] ([[Bastille Day]]) and [[Billy Keikeya]] ([[Miniseries]]). He agrees to treat her condition, without revealing it to anyone else, and further agrees to support more unorthodox treatments such as [[Chamalla]] extract. Knowing the extent of her illness and Roslin's reluctance to undergo [[diloxin]] therapy, the doctor also recommends prayer.

Cottle takes a personal interest in [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck's]] recovery after she breaks her leg during a mission ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]). The doctor works with Lee Adama to get her out of sickbay ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]) without initial success.

Grumpy of attitude, yet always professional, Cottle instantly inspires trust, despite his attitude.

After the [[assassination|assassination attempt]] on [[William Adama]], ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]) Cottle is unavailable to stabilize the Commander as he is aboard another ship in the Fleet. Matters worsen after ''Galactica'''s emergency [[FTL|Jump]] separates Cottle and the battlestar. [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] orders Cottle's medics to stop Adama's internal bleeding ([[Scattered]]). However, while the medics stabilize the Commander's condition, they are unable to fully stop his bleeding. Cottle finally arrives and is able to operate on Commander Adama. After much risky work, the doctor saves Adama's life ([[Fragged]]).

Cottle speaks rather contemptuously of Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]'s authority. When Tigh asks of Adama's condition as Cottle begins surgery to save the Commander's life, he tells the XO, "How should I know? I'm not a psychic. Now get the hell out of here" ([[Fragged]]). Later, after Tigh orders an ill-advised attempt to restore supply runs to ''Galactica'' on the ''[[Gideon]]'', resulting in four civilian deaths, Cottle is anything but sympathetic when Tigh asks what happened: "What'd you expect, genius? You put a pilot in charge of crowd control" ([[Resistance]]).

At the request of President Roslin, despite her straight-to-the-point warning about its illegality and danger (Cottle: "You're a lousy salesman."), he assists Roslin in escaping ''Galactica'' by filing a request for a [[Raptor]] flight away from the battlestar, to care for patients on other ships. Roslin leaves ''Galactica'' on this "appropriated" Raptor with [[Lee Adama]] at the helm ([[Resistance]]).

Major Cottle performs a series of medical scans on [[Gaius Baltar]]'s head at Baltar's request. Unknown to Cottle, Baltar is looking to see if there is a Cylon computer chip implanted into his brain. The scans show absolutely nothing unusual, and Cottle dismisses Baltar as a hypochondriac ([[Home, Part II]]).

Even Cottle's stony exterior gives way to the pain he sees on Laura Roslin's face when he gives her a new prognosis on her fight with cancer. Her cancer has spread aggressively, and the good doctor gives Roslin, on the outside, one month to live ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). His concern for Cylon Sharon Valerii and her unborn hybrid child is remarkable, especially in the face of the rest of the crew's distrust and even hatred of her, hinting at his extremely strict sense of medical ethics. He described her attempted rape by Lt. Thorne as "unforgivable," (and looked ready to beat back anyone who disagreed) and voiced his opposition to Baltar using Sharon's baby's blood as a cure for Roslin's cancer ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]," "[[Epiphanies]]").

Cottle has gained a reputation among the fleet for performing abortions. When [[Rya Kibby]], a young Gemenese girl, wanted to end her pregnancy, she stowed away to get aboard ''Galactica'' and see Cottle. Cottle explained the situation to Admiral Adama by acknowledging, "I get a note that a girl's on the way. She arrives. I do my work. And then she leaves. I don't ask a lot of questions." When Admiral Adama asked Rya to return to her parents, Cottle suggested that the girl instead request political asylum aboard ''Galactica'', earning a stare from Adama. ("[[The Captain's Hand]]")

Cottle's outspokenness could be attributed to the fact that, as one of the few remaining doctors left in the Fleet, he is far too important to the Fleet to penalize for acts of insubordination that anyone else would be punished for. It's also possible that Dr. Cottle's personality is a result of the stresses of the Cylon holocaust. Given his advanced age, Cottle was likely on the verge of retirement when he was forced to spend his twilight years in space, trying desperately to meet a far-too-high level of demand for his services.

After the election of President [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] and the settlement of [[New Caprica]] Cottle, like most of ''Galactica'''s crew, retires from military duty. One year after the election he is still serving as a doctor on New Caprica in private practice ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

== Notes ==

*Cottle's counterpart in the [[TOS|Original Series]] is [[Salik]].
*In accordance with [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron D. Moore]]'s [[naturalistic science fiction]] principles used to form the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined series]], unlike [[MemoryAlpha:Leonard McCoy|another popular medical officer]] in television science fiction, Cottle's personality is grumpy, callous, and rude.
*In the DVD commentary for "[[Act of Contrition]]", RDM states that actor Donnelly Rhodes was one of the three finalists up for the role of Col. [[Saul Tigh]], though in the end the part was given to one of the other finalists, [[Michael Hogan]].

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Sharon Agathon

2006-03-29T00:02:47Z

Ragestorm:

{{Character Data|
|photo=[[Image:CShar.jpg|225px]]
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|servicen=
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children= [[Hera]] (Human-Cylon hybrid)
|marital status= Single, in a relationship with Lt. [[Karl Agathon]].
|role= Giving birth to a Human-Cylon Hybrid, currently a POW and Colonial informer on ''Galactica''.
|rank=
|actor= [[Grace Park]]
|cylon= y
|name=
}}

''This page is about the copy of Cylon Model Number Eight first seen on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], who loves [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and becomes pregnant. For the Sharon Valerii first seen on [[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]], who loves [[Galen Tyrol]] and is shot by [[Cally]], see [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)]]. For information about the various copies see [[Number Eight]].''

== Biography ==
When [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] is left on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] use him in an elaborate experiment. Key to this experiment is another copy of Valerii, with copies of [[Aaron Doral]] and [[Number Six|Six]] acting as overseers for the experiment. This second Valerii "rescues" Helo from capture by [[Number Six|Six]] and [[Cylon Centurion]]s. Unaware of Valerii's true nature, Helo genuinely believes this Valerii copy to be the "Boomer" he knew from ''Galactica''. Following his rescue, Valerii leads Helo to "her" [[Raptor]], now in the hands of Cylons, convincing him that they have no direct way off of the planet ([[Water]]).

Following this, and having received a "Colonial signal" on the radio receiver they are carrying, she leads Helo to a city where they find a fully-equipped "fallout shelter" in which two people can live in reasonable security, hidden from above-ground Cylon operations, and with sufficient supplies to last a considerable period of time ([[Act of Contrition]]).

=== The Experiment ===

The purpose in establishing this "nest" is to elicit an emotional response in Helo towards Valerii. When this fails, and he continues to express a desire to get off the planet, the Cylons arrange for Valerii to be "captured", determining that if Helo does not seek to rescue her, the experiment has failed, and he must be killed ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).

Following Helo's "rescue" of Valerii, genuine concern and mutual need result in the two having sex ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]), an accomplishment she reports to Doral and Six. A new hideout, a cabin in the woods, is being constructed for Helo and Valerii, and she is instructed to lead him there and have him stay with her - or kill him if he attempts to leave ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

Faced with this, and the realization that she has herself fallen in love with Helo, Valerii disobeys her instructions and attempts to lead Helo to [[Delphi]], where they hope to steal a vehicle and get off the planet ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]). On the way to the spaceport, Valerii shows signs of being pregnant: she succumbs to a bout of morning sickness ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]) and develops a ravenous appetite ([[Colonial Day]]).

=== Helo's Discovery ===
[[Image:Boomerhelokara.jpg|225px|Helo attempts to stop Kara from shooting Sharon, in the Delphi Museum.|thumb]]
On reaching Delphi, Valerii and Helo break into the Cylon facilities to reach the spaceport. When Helo encounters yet another copy of Valerii, he draws the initial conclusion that she is a human clone created by the Cylons, and goes on the run alone ([[Colonial Day]]). When Valerii catches up with him, her emotional condition is so confused that she challenges him to shoot her ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]). Helo is only able to wound her, and takes her with him to use her to somehow get off Caprica. While Helo keeps her at gunpoint, she leads him to the [[Delphi Museum]]. Waiting out a storm in a nearby ruined building, Sharon tells Helo that her love for him is real and that she is pregnant with his child.

When she and Helo come across Starbuck, who lands near the museum to retrieve the [[Arrow of Apollo]], Thrace realizes instantly that Valerii is a Cylon and attempts to shoot her. Helo stops Thrace and reveals to her that Valerii is pregnant ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Starbuck is convinced that Caprica-Valerii must be a Cylon copy of the "real" Sharon on ''Galactica''. Caprica-Valerii tries to convince her that they are both Cylons and both of them is just as "real" as the other, by remembering the first time they met, to no avail.

=== Valerii and The Resistance ===

After Thrace attempts to kill her, Valerii escapes in Thrace's Cylon Raider to save the life of her unborn child ([[Scattered]]). After tracking them for several days, Valerii returns to Helo and a [[Resistance (movement)|Caprica resistance movement]] to aid them in finding the missing Thrace ([[The Farm]]). Valerii steals a Cylon [[Heavy Raider]] and arrives at the rescue scene to destroy several Centurions and rescue the entire resistance group. Convinced that this Sharon copy can be sufficiently trusted, or at least give useful information on Cylon activity, they allow Valerii to join them as they take the Heavy Raider back to [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]].

When Valerii walks aboard the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', [[Lee Adama]] spots her, grabs Valerii and places his gun to her head, obviously angry that another Valerii copy exists (the Galactica copy having shot his father, [[William Adama]]). Helo immediately places his gun against Adama's head, but President Roslin urges both men enough to drop their weapons, and orders Valerii to be ejected out the airlock. Valerii pleads for her life, telling Roslin she knows the precise location of the [[Laura Roslin faction|faction's]] objective: The [[Tomb of Athena]]. Roslin reconsiders and places Valerii in the brig. Roslin later confirms that the Cylon is actually working on their side because Valerii wants her child and Helo to remain safe from what Roslin interprets as a mothering instinct.
[[image:sharonhome.jpg|235px|Sharon on Kobol, with Helo, Elosha, and Roslin.|thumb]]
Valerii accompanies Roslin's party to [[Kobol]]. Valerii recites the specific passages of the Tomb in the scriptures of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and plots the group's path along a ridge nearby. As priestess [[Elosha]] examines a gravestone marker along the ancient trail, the handcuffed Valerii senses danger but is too late to warn anyone; two "Bouncing Betty"-style antipersonnel mines detonate, killing Elosha. At the same instant, a group of Centurions open fire. As others hide or return fire, Valerii vaults away, with Lee Adama in pursuit, believing she is trying to escape. Valerii scoops up a grenade launcher lying ahead, and just as Lee Adama thinks she is about to shoot him, she aims for the last Centurion and destroys it ([[Home, Part I]]). At camp, Adama and Thrace are perplexed that Helo still loves Valerii, even though he is now aware she is a cylon.

While walking, Valerii casually tells Helo that their child is a girl. Commander Adama's search party arrives at Roslin's camp. The warm reunion of the two leaders and family is interrupted when Adama sees this second copy of Sharon Valerii. Commander Adama immediately tries to choke her to death. He releases her after experiencing terrible chest pains (probably the result of his recent surgery, or from anxiety), as she says "And you asked 'why'?" (mysteriously referencing what Commander Adama said over the body of the dead body of "Boomer" Valerii).

[[Tom Zarek]]'s follower, [[Meier]], tries to convince her to help him kill both Adamas. Valerii believed her ''Galactica'' counterpart was being held in the [[brig]], but Meier informs her that she was killed. She expresses her outrage to Helo that Cally killed Boomer with only a minor punishment. Valerii deduces that the Colonials don't see humanoid Cylons are people; she is a thing they may destroy once they no longer need her. Valerii pretends to take up Meier's proposal to kill Commander Adama and Lee Adama, but after they all draw their weapons, she shoots Meier instead, saving the lives of both Adamas. She announces to Commander Adama that she is not the same Sharon that shot him, and that she is not a sleeper agent with hidden protocols waiting to activate; she makes her own choices. She surrenders the weapon to Commander Adama, to everyone's surprise.

=== The Cooperative Cylon ===

Subsequently, Valerii is brought aboard battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'' and imprisoned in a new reinforced cell designed to incarcerate the copy of Sharon known as "Boomer." [[Number Six]] tells Dr. Baltar that Valerii's baby will be born in that cell. Number Six considers Valerii's and Helo's biological child to be hers; she says that she will be its "mother" and Baltar will be it's "father" ([[Home, Part II]]).

While in her cell Valerii nearly has a miscarriage, and is rushed to [[Sickbay]] where Dr. [[Cottle]] succeeds in saving the fetus. [[D'anna Biers]], a reporter for the Fleet News Service, stumbles upon Valerii while filming her documentary in Sickbay. D'anna threatens to expose that Adama is harboring a Cylon aboard ''Galactica'', but he confiscated what he believed was Biers' tape of Valerii. In reality, D'anna secretly switches tapes and keeps the real one. This critical information was not broadcast in the final cut of her documentary distributed to the Fleet, but it was broadcast back to other Cylons on Caprica (by way of two Raiders that attacked ''Galactica'' in order to get within transmission range). The Cylons on Caprica (including another copy of D'anna and yet another Valerii copy) are surprised yet overjoyed that Helo's Valerii is still alive (they are apparently unaware that she had survived). They are incredibly concerned that her hybrid child survives, saying that it must be protected at all costs ([[Final Cut]]).

[[Image:Valerii_virus.jpg|thumb|left|Valerii in trance while disabling the Cylon logic bomb]]

When ''Galactica'' experiences mysterious computer failures and system malfunctions from yet another Cylon virus, Commander Adama orders Helo to show the incarcerated Valerii the strange Cylon code. Valerii identifies it as a very virulent [[Logic bomb]] that will take control of the ship and kill off the crew if she does not help. Reluctantly, on advice from President Roslin, Commander Adama brings Valerii to [[CIC]], where Valerii cuts her arm open and connects her body to a fiber optic line to communicate with ''Galactica's'' mainframe [[Computers|computer]] and communication channels. The process is painful both to Valerii and to the crew watching the spectacle. With Valerii now with access, she takes into her a portion of the logic bomb code, then instructs Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] to wipe the hard drives of the system computers to erase all Cylon virus traces for good. ''Galactica'' is a sitting duck to a massive Cylon fighter force on the outskirts of [[DRADIS]] range while Valerii makes adjustments to the code. She resends the code out on the communication channels to the Cylon fleet. In a reversal of the events suffered by the Colonials in the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|holocaust]], every Cylon fighter loses power and weapons. Adama's Vipers have a [[Great Cylon Turkey Shoot|free-for-all shooting]], destroying every Cylon fighter without a single Colonial casualty ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

=== The Cylon "Interrogator" ===

After ''Galactica'' reunites with battlestar ''Pegasus'', Admiral [[Helena Cain]] sends Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne]] to inspect the incarcerated Valerii. He beats her and attempts to sexually assault her while his guards watch. Fortunately for Valerii, both Helo and Tyrol find out about Thorne and what was done to his previous [[Gina|prisoner]] and arrive in time to stop him. Tyrol accidentally kills Thorne in the process, and both he and Helo are arrested by the ''Pegasus'' guards and taken to Cain's battlestar, where a summary court-martial leaves Agathon and Tyrol pending execution by Admiral Cain.

Commander Adama sends a [[Marines|Marine]] force and his Viper squadrons out and tells to Cain over [[wireless]] that he is getting his men. Valerii and all of the fleet await news on the survival of her "past" and current love as a standoff between the battlestars begins ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

Valerii's attempted rape results in a hairline fracture in one of her ribs and minor bruising. Still in shock for the incident, Commander Adama personally appologizes to Valerii that it happened aboard his ship ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]). This is also the first time where he refers to Sharon as a 'her', as opposed to as an 'it'.

Valerii is happily reunited with Helo and Tyrol when the two are released after Adama resumes full command of the Fleet, though she is more enthusiastic to see Helo than Tyrol. ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).
[[image:Sharonheloephin.jpg|Sharon becomes distressed upon learning from Helo that the Galactica crew is planning on aborting her child.|thumb]]

===Roslin's attempt to abort Valerii's baby===
Weeks later, President Roslin, on her deathbed, recommends that Valerii's fetus be aborted, fearing dire consequences for the Fleet.

On hearing this news, Helo is terrified, but Valerii, having cooperated fully to aid the Fleet to save herself and her child and to show that not all Cylons are dangerous, is enraged. Marines sent to inspect her and later to take her to [[sickbay]] for the procedure are forced to restrain the angry Cylon.

At the last minute (spurred by threats from his virtual [[Number Six]]), it is [[Gaius Baltar]] who learns of an astonishing ability of the fetal blood of Valerii's baby: it destroys cancer cells. Taking a small blood sample, he injects it into the dying Laura Roslin. Moments later, her cancer is "gone", according to Dr. [[Cottle]]. The abortion procedure is cancelled.

The recovering Roslin visits Valerii in her cell and smiles at the sight of Valerii stroking her belly, just as a human female would ([[Epiphanies]]).

===Birth of the child===
[[Image:Sharondownloaded.jpg|thumb|Helo comforts Sharon as the doctors start to perform an emergency Caesarian Section to help her give birth. ]]
Caprica-Sharon has since given birth to the child which was born prematurely, and thus its lungs were underdeveloped and it had to spend some time in an oxygen-rich incubator. An emergency Ceasarian Section had to be performed by Dr. [[Cottle]] to save both the baby's and Caprica-Sharon's life because of a detached placenta. Helo and Sharon named the baby [[Hera]] and marveled at her while she was in an incubator. However, after believing their baby was out of danger, the baby apparently died due to her underdeveloped lungs and the failure of Dr. Cottle to be able to intubate her in time. In a state of shock Sharon nearly strangled Cottle in grief before being subdued, and subsequently fell into deep depression.

However, unbeknownst to Caprica-Sharon, her baby is still alive. In a move to not have to kill the baby but at the same time not have it raised by Sharon or risk having it captured by unseen Cylon agents, Caprica Sharon's baby was switched with another dead child. That was the child Sharon and Helo was grieving over. President [[Laura Roslin]], Dr. Cottle and Presidental aide [[Tory Foster]] had Caprica-Sharon's baby placed in the care of [[Maya]], a foster mother for Hera who had lost her own child. The adoptive mother does not know that the child she has taken in is the Cylon/human hybrid. ([[Downloaded]])

Sharon's depression over losing her child only worsens. Helo convinces her to aid in the rescue of [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] and the other survivors on Caprica, in part to try and draw her out of her funk. Sharon makes the rescue possible by acting as a conduit between the Colonial Raptors and the far more advanced FTL computer salvaged from a Heavy Raider. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]) On Caprica, Kara demonstrates a new level of trust for Sharon by throwing her a gun during the firefight with the Centurions. Later, Sharon is as perplexed as everyone else when the Cylon troops disengage and the Cylons apparently leave the planet for good. She is aware, however, that [[Cavil|Brother Cavil]], who loudly proclaims the end of the occupation to be a miracle, is a Cylon agent, and witholds this information from the others. On Galactica the good brother is exposed by Chief Tyrol, and Sharon is sent back to the Brig along with him. When asked by a distraught Helo why she didn't report this crucial fact, she replies "They killed my baby. Do you think I care about you, or us, or whether or not Adama trusts me anymore?" and then shuts him out completely. Her status and whereabouts during the year on New Caprica are currently unknown. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

===Notes===
*This Sharon Valerii is still referred to as the Caprica copy, even though she is now on Galactica, because she was first encountered on Caprica.

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Valerii, Sharon, (Caprica copy)]]
[[Category:Characters|Valerii, Sharon, (Caprica copy)]]
[[Category:Cylons|Valerii, Sharon, (Caprica copy)]]
[[Category:RDM|Valerii, Sharon, (Caprica copy)]]

Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming

2006-03-28T23:35:22Z

Ragestorm:

The ''Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming'' project was a proof-of-concept professionally-created mock movie-trailer created, produced, directed, and starred by Original Series star and ''Galactica'' spin-off author [[Richard Hatch]]. Under his production company, Su-Shann, Hatch leveraged the talent of many TOS stars, including the late [[John Colicos]], in an effort to convince [[Universal Studios]], the owners to the rights of the Battlestar Galactica franchise, to greenlight a new series or motion picture.

The highly-elaborate trailer features new concepts, impressive acting, and very exciting special effects. Hatch visited many science-fiction conventions to show the trailer and it proved to be a hit among fans that viewed it.

However, Hatch never succeeded in getting Universal's attention. The BSG project revival would be first given to [[Tom DeSanto]] and ''X-Men'' director [[Bryan Singer]] in coordination with Fox Studios and USA Television in 2001. After that project dissolved primarily due to the withdrawal of Fox Studios as well as Singer's committment to a second ''X-Men'' movie, USA Networks chose [[Ronald D. Moore]] and [[David Eick]] to create a new project, which would be a near-complete rewrite of the series, with familiar names, characters, and places, but with none of the original actors as their original characters, and with a much darker overtone.

Despite initial doubts about the series, Richard Hatch was happy to join the new ''Battlestar Galactica'' TV series cast as the recurring character of terrorist-turned-politician [[Tom Zarek]].

==External Links==

[http://www.richardhatch.com/battlestar_galactica/bsgtsc.html About the ''Second Coming'' project, from Richard Hatch's official website]

[http://www.battlestargalactica.com/index.htm A Battlestar Galactica News site, also managed by Mr. Hatch]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category: Revival Efforts]]

Thomas Zarek

2006-03-28T23:33:09Z

Ragestorm: /* Baltar's Election Campaign */

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:zarek.jpg|200px]]
|age= Early 50s
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]]
|birthname= Thomas Zarek
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status= Single
|role= Representing Sagittaron on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]
|rank= Councilman
|actor= [[Richard Hatch]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

'''Tom Zarek''' was a political activist for more than 30 years before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. He is a charismatic, eloquent and ideological political agitator who was incarcerated for destroying a government building on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]]. His 20-year incarceration culminated in a sojurn in the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', a [[FTL]]-capable prison ship, whilst in transit to parole hearings. Assigned the prison number of [[893893]], Zarek was under consideration for parole at the time of the [[Cylon attack]].

== Biography ==

Zarek came from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]], a colony known to be mistreated by the other eleven [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonies]]. Through his experiences on that colony, he became an advocate of freedom from slavery. Zarek became a voice for the disenfranchised and, along with publishing a book that was virtually banned throughout the Colonies, actively sought to fight against injustices.

To some he is considered a terrorist and nuisance for his tactics, which included the destruction of a government building that resulted in an unspecified loss of life. He believes in the efficacy of violence as a means of change, going as so far as to go to prison over a "matter of conscience" and his refusal of President [[Richard Adar|Richard Adar's]] politically motivated conditional pardon (the conditions of the pardon being that he would publicly apologize and pledge to give up violence as a means of change).

Even some of his fellow Sagittarons have an intense dislike of him, including Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]. Despite this, he became a public figure whose name had weight and almost became legendary, thanks to public opinion ([[Bastille Day]]).

== After the Exodus ==

After avoiding the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' commander's desire to euthanize the prisoners (thanks to President [[Laura Roslin]]'s humanitarian decision) ([[Mini-Series]]) Zarek plots to escape captivity. With the water shortage and the discovery of a planet that could replenish the lost water ([[Water]]), Commander [[William Adama|Adama]], [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] and President Roslin reluctantly decide to ask the prisoners to volunteer as badly needed manpower, under the condition that they would not be treated as slaves and they would agree of their own volition.

After [[Lee Adama]]'s unsuccessful attempt to persuade the prisoners to help in the recovery efforts, Zarek's springs the prisoners' escape plan. The prisoners, under Zarek's command, usurp control of the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', and takes her crew and ''Galactica's'' visitors as prisoners. Zarek states his terms for release of the prisoners: the resignation of [[Laura Roslin]] and her administration, and the start of free and open elections for a new president. Zarek deems Roslin's presidency as illegitimate and illegal (clearly, the details of [[Case Orange]] were not made public, though even if they were, Zarek wouldn't have backed down).

Unfortunately, Zarek's aims are not in keeping with his demands; he wants a bloodbath to ensue, believing that all that people understand is violence, and that a bloodbath would destroy any credibility that Adama and Roslin have.

When the situation deteriorates near the point of catastrophe for all involved, Zarek, ready to sacrifice his life for his beliefs, is swayed by [[Lee Adama]]'s promise that he would uphold the [[Articles of Colonization]] and hold open elections for a new president, once Roslin had served the remainder of President Adar's term (as dictated by the Articles and Case Orange), as well as give the ship over to the prisoners as a show of good faith.

== Attempts for Political Power ==
[[Image:Home_pt1_debate.jpg|thumb|left|[[Tom Zarek]] in debate with [[Quorum of Twelve|Quorum members]]. (C. Sci-Fi Channel)
]]
With a degree of freedom obtained by the prisoners - including control of the ''Astral Queen'', Zarek engages in a steady effort to gain the goodwill of others of influence within the fleet. This effort includes physical acts of support for other ships (such as fixing the air filtration system on the ship occupied by [[Marshall Bagott]], a politician from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]].

Zarek's efforts result in a nomination as the Representative of [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]] on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. From there, Zarek makes a bid for the position of Vice President using the support of those he assisted, and possibly badgered ([[Colonial Day]]).

While Zarek's attempt at the Vice Presidency fails after Roslin replaces the somewhat unlikeable [[Wallace Gray]] with the charismatic Doctor [[Gaius Baltar]] as an alternative candidate, Zarek makes it clear to Roslin that he will be standing against her in the elections.

Zarek remains possibly the most powerful and popular representative in the [[Quorum of Twelve]].<br/><br/>

== Breakaway from [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] ==

The schism created by Commander Adama's unlawful arrest of President Roslin and [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]]'s declaration of [[Wikipedia:martial law|martial law]] presents Zarek with an opportunity to convince others that Adama is after total control of the Fleet. Zarek likely sought to use Tigh's inexperience with dealing with the government and [[Colonial Press|press]] against the military powers. Zarek and the Quorum soon learn of Roslin's terminal cancer, after Tigh permits the Quorum of Twelve to see her in ''Galactica'''s brig ([[Fragged]]).

After the ''[[Gideon]]'' incident, where four civilians die, some crewmembers of ''Galactica'' orchestrate Roslin's escape. Lee Adama, knowing they would be hunted throughout the Fleet, enlists Zarek's assistance in secreting Roslin away from Tigh and Commander Adama ("[[Resistance]]", "[[The Farm]]"). Roslin is initially dismayed to be greeted by Zarek, but realizes that Zarek, no friend to Adama or Tigh, is "the enemy of my enemy."

Zarek and Roslin attempt to use appeals by recorded [[wireless]] messages to sway favor in the Fleet to return to Kobol. Zarek convinces Lee Adama at first to create a dissenting message against ''Galactica's'' rule, but changes his mind (probably because he swore to his comatose father that it wasn't about them). After Roslin plays the "religious card" to sway support for her cause in the Fleet, Roslin and Zarek lead a [[Laura Roslin faction|separatist fleet]] back to [[Kobol]] to await [[Kara Thrace]]'s return with the [[Arrow of Apollo]], for use in unlocking the [[Tomb of Athena]].

Zarek, with his associate [[Meier]], plan to eliminate the young Captain Adama on Kobol, using the rationalization about [[Zeus]]' warning that any return to Kobol would "exact a price in blood". Zarek feels that removing the young Adama would create a political power vacuum, allowing Zarek to take the position as captain of factioned Fleet, while Roslin would remain president ([[Home, Part I]]).

Zarek abandons the assassination plan when Commander Adama arrives on Kobol to mend fences with Roslin. However, Meier privately revises the plan outside of Zarek's knowledge, now with the goal of eliminating both Adamas by soliciting the help of the [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii]] that returned with [[Karl Agathon]] and Thrace. Unfortunately for Zarek, Sharon Valerii double-crosses Meier, killing him at the entrance to the Tomb of Athena. While none in the group immediately consider Zarek as a suspect in Meier's assassination attempt, Commander Adama remains guarded and leaves Zarek and several others outside of the Tomb under the watchful eye of [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] while they unlock its secrets ([[Home, Part II]]).

==After Fleet Reunification==
Zarek later gives [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] information regarding the [[Black market (organization)|black market]], initially claiming not to be a part of it because he needs to keep his hands clean, but ultimately points out that the black market does get supplies where they are needed. Nonetheless, Zarek mentions the central hub of the black market, ''[[Prometheus]]'', a ship so lawless it's practically "off the grid", as well as the name of its "businessman", [[Phelan]]. However, soon after Phelan's death at the hands of Apollo, Tom Zarek is seen walking through a crowd on the Prometheus with one of Phelan's old henchmen in tow. It is unknown how much involvment Tom Zarek has with the organization ([[Black Market]]).

Despite being the presumbed opponent of Roslin in the upcoming presidential election, Zarek decided to step down due to low poll numbers. He managed to talk vice president [[Gauis Baltar]] into running in his place, perhaps as part of a more long-term plan to ascend to power ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

==Baltar's Election Campaign==
When Baltar announces his run for the Presidency Zarek becomes his campaign manager. For all his personal political talent he has a hard time managing Baltar's campaign and faces the tough issue of whether Baltar is an electable candidate. After being trounced in the first debate by Roslin, Baltar's political future is in deep jeopardy and Zarek is left looking for a stronger wedge-issue other than Roslin's ties to the religious Gemenese. As if delivered by the hand of [[God]], an issue presents itself that they can get on the supposed right side of; the colonization of a [[New Caprica|newly discovered planet]] and a safe-haven from the Cylons. Zarek presses Baltar to pick up this issue and run with it and as soon as he does his political fortunes turn around dramatically. Like he predicted the people rally around the idea of colonization and Baltar sails out of the final debate with a wide lead on Roslin ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

With his job of campaign manager all but over on election day, there isn't much for Zarek to do but sit back and wait for the results to come in. When the initial tallies come in suggesting Roslin scored a remarkable come-back victory he says to Baltar that he's seen enough elections to recognize fixed ones. Baltar admonishes Zarek, maintaing that whatever Laura Roslin is, she is above fixing an election.

{{spoiltext|Zarek is not seen again when the story picks up one year later on New Caprica, but according to Ronald Moore's blog[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/03/#000410], Zarek was "...Vice President, but his relationship with Baltar went south relatively quickly, and he simply refused to cooperate once the Cylon occupation began."}}

== Notes ==

Tom Zarek is portrayed by actor [[Richard Hatch]], who portrayed the original [[Apollo (TOS)|Apollo]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|1978 ''Battlestar Galactica'' series]].

Hatch has written novels based on the original series, and also leads an attempt to bring the Original Series back theatrically in a project called "[[Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming]]."

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown)''|title=Sagittaron delegate to the [[Quorum of Twelve]]|after=''(unknown)''}}
{{succession box (spoiler)|before=Gaius Baltar|title=[[Government|Vice President of the Twelve Colonies]]|after=Incumbent}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Zarek, Tom]]
[[Category:Characters|Zarek, Tom]]
[[Category:RDM|Zarek, Tom]]
[[Category:People from Sagittaron|Zarek, Tom]]

Humanoid Cylon speculation

2006-03-27T00:17:07Z

Ragestorm: /* William Adama? */

The [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon's]] transformation into [[Cylon agent|humanoid form]] introduces serious problems for the remnant of humanity known as [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] to identify Cylon operative from human.

This article details plausible speculation on central and supporting characters in ''[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]]'' who, based on their behavior, motive, and background, could be in reality a Cylon agent.

==Needed Qualifiers for Speculation==

For a character to be logically considered a possible agent, there are a few established parameters to meet:

* '''The suspect must have a ''regular association'' with other Cylon agents''' (whether they realize the character is an infiltrator or not). A "regular" association means that the character speaks often (weekly, if not daily) to, or has/had direct duties with another agent. Suspects that speak regularly to other suspects in this list are, for the purposes of this article, not applicable to this qualifier. Many Viper pilots and ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' command staff who've worked with the [[Sharon Valerii]] copy known as "Boomer" would meet this qualifier.
* '''The suspect must not have any adult children or siblings.''' For purposes of this article, a pregnancy can be generally established as a disqualifer. However, while identical Colonial twins have not been shown in any episode, it is conceivable that Cylon agents could disguise themselves by posing as twins.
* '''The suspect must not have a verifiable family history''' (marriages do not disqualify unless a child was conceived).
* '''The suspect cannot be old enough to have witnessed or participated in the [[Cylon War]].'''
* '''The suspect does not have reliable histories''' that places them in direct association (working or personal relationship) with a disqualified (confirmed human) character for '''more than 2 years prior''' to the destruction of the Colonies.

Based on information from the [[Miniseries]], the Cylon agents began their infiltration and integration into Colonial society approximately 2 years before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. If a character has a direct association with a character that cannot be a Cylon agent, that association excludes them since they are older than the stated time that the agents began to integrate themselves into Colonial society. Note that the 2-year period is based on information given by [[Number Six]] to [[Gaius Baltar]]: Their relationship lasted for 2 years prior to the Cylon attack. There is also supporting information that [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer's]] tour of duty was also approximately 2 years in the Colonial Fleet.

According to [[Ron D. Moore]], the twelve humanoid models are based on human behavior and personality archetypes distilled into twelve varieties. Cylon agents are NOT copies or clones of any humans, living or dead.

With [[Sharon Valerii|one exception]], Cylon agents have extreme difficulty with human sexual reproduction to the point where they are effectively infertile. If a character has adult, biological children, it automatically excludes them as being a Cylon agent as the precreation of the child and the age of the child both violate the 2nd qualifier.

Based on these qualifers, each assessment below is marked accordingly with their probability of being a Cylon infiltrator.

==Gaius Baltar?==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Three [[Number Six]] incarnations)
* Known siblings or adult children: None
* Known family members: None
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: No

''This extended speculation thread appears all but disproven with the airing of the episode "[[Downloaded]]." To go directly to what may be the final arguments toward Baltar as a Cylon, see the last section of this subarticle.''

For '''[[Gaius Baltar]]''' to survive the destruction of Caprica was no small matter, especially considering he was in the wake a nuclear shock wave and that the body of Six that he knew was apparently destroyed in trying to protect his in the events of the Mini-Series.

A nuclear blast's shock wave is substantial (not unlike that from a [[Wikipedia:Pyroclastic_flow|pyroclastic cloud]]). The shock wave would contain rocks, glass, metal, and other large debris that would bludgeon, pierce and lacerate human tissue with ease and at terrific speeds (at maximum, 1200 KPH, or 745 MPH). Such a debris-filled shock wave would obliterate Baltar's home and easily annihilate Six's body, which at those speeds would provide essentially no protection to Baltar's. (For comparison, note that, despite his superior strength, the head of the first [[Leoben Conoy]] copy encountered was bludgeoned by Commander Adama with a flashlight, and many other Cylon agent copies have been shot or killed as easily as a human.)

Even if Baltar survived momentarily from Six's protection, either the remains of his home would have collapsed over him, likely trapping him if not killing him, or he and Six's body would also be carried away by the shock wave for some distance.

Six has had two years to gather plenty of Baltar's genetic material. Could the Baltar on ''Galactica'' be now, in fact, a Cylon agent?

===Why a Copy?===

Information from RDM indicate that, at the start of season 2, there are ''eight'' Cylon operatives that appear in the fleet. A Baltar copy would also have made matters very, very easy for the Cylons in their work to infiltrate the Colonial defenses and would be easily dropped in place to escape or happen to appear on a ship of the nascent Fleet. Such clones may also explain the 'fake' recording from [[Shelly Godfrey]] of Baltar compromising Colonial computer systems in a latter Season 1 episode. Perhaps it was the Cylons who doctored what was, in reality, a legitimate recording of a Baltar copy.

One notable question would be ''why'' Six has spent so much time talking to Baltar and then thrown herself in front of the blast if she'd intended for him to die? If Baltar was already a Cylon agent, his consciousness from that moment would be thrown into a waking duplicate, already disheveled and scraped, where Baltar would merely think he was blown clear to safety where he could run to escape attacks with other survivors. Also, since Baltar appeared to be key in many Cylon plans, they would want to ensure that Baltar would reach any remaining humans to spy for them, and having only one copy might risk the success of such plans. Further, it is the ''psyche'' of Baltar that the Cylons may treasure most; few others in the Colonies may have the level of intelligence, arrogance, and neurosis that Baltar has that could prove as easily exploitable. The guise of the great Baltar gives the Cylons a huge natural tactical advantage in that he is well known and allowed access to almost any critical battlestar location. Baltar's slick-as-oil personality aids him with better finesse and stronger charisma than any Cylon agent personality yet seen.

===The Baltar-as-Father Argument===

Six has stated her desire to have a child with Baltar. Cylon agent couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point ("[[The Farm]]"). If Baltar and Six were both Cylon agent, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely. This point gives evidence against the Baltar-as-Cylon theory, but Six has repeatedly made it clear that she considers the hybrid human-cylon baby that Sharon is carrying to be "our" (as she puts it) baby. "Our" may in fact be inclusive of all cylons, which may just include Baltar.

In "[[Home, Part II]]", Six indicates that Baltar's and Six's child will be born in the isolation cage built for the [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii]]. The reality turned out different: The Caprica version of Valerii, pregnant by [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], now occupies the cage by the end of that episode, and Six indicates that it is in fact '''Valerii's''' child that will become Baltar's. This gives some weight to the Baltar-as-Cylon theory since Baltar becoming a father by surrogate circumvents the need for him to do so naturally. While Caprica-Valerii shows that a female Cylon agent could conceive, no information is yet available on whether male Cylon agents could sire a child with human females. However, earlier in the first season, in "[[33]]", Six asked Baltar if he wanted to procreate with her, and at this point she may have meant an actual child of Baltar's. "Home, Part II" occurred much later in the timeline, and it is possible that the Cylons and Number Six had to alter their plans during this time. Number Six did mention in "Home, Part II" that she didn't consider Sharon "worthy" of bearing one of "God's new children" (the Cylon agents). Perhaps Sharon was not originally planned to be the first mother of a hybrid baby at all, and Number Six was going to have a child with the (necessarily human) Baltar, but had to shift plans when Boomer became pregnant first.

===Inside Baltar's Head===

Baltar's brain scan in "[[Home, Part II]]" confirms that the virtual Six that only Baltar can see is '''not''' an actual ''artificial'' device in his brain. This leaves a number of possibilities, of which the strongest are:

# Baltar has a device elsewhere in his body. We're not given information on whether ''all'' of Baltar's body was scanned, or just his head.
# A portion of Baltar's body ''is'' the "chip" but fashioned in a way by the Cylons that is medically indistinguishable from a regular body part and may also function normally (say, a pituitary gland)
# Baltar's body is artificial, with his personality (complete with neuroses) placed in a Cylon agent construct. While Baltar's psyche itself may not be that of a Cylon, the addition of the virtual Six component compliments the arrangement for the Cylon's purposes.

Possibility #3 is interesting in that, based on Baltar's own research on the Six copy known as [[Gina]], Baltar's personality and guilt would continue to plague him either in Cylon agent or human form. But, if Baltar were reconstructed as a Cylon, the virtual Six aids Baltar by being, in effect, the conscience and "guardian angel" she claims to be, keeping his neuroses and guilt over the genocide from driving him completely insane--for now.

===But Cylons aren't human clones===

As Cylons aren't copies of humans, this would suggest either of two possibilities for Baltar: first, that he survived the blast and escaped, or second, that Baltar was a Cylon all along, even on Caprica.

The idea of Baltar being originally a Cylon has problems, however. If Baltar were a Cylon, it would be redundant and unnecessary for Number Six to "choose him" for her mission (unless the Cylons preferred Baltar to remain a "sleeper" throughout his mission to give "plausible deniability" in his mind as well as allow him to do what his personality is likely to do). Furthermore, from a story perspective, the idea of Baltar being a Cylon very much goes against the idea of Baltar as a traitor betraying humanity to the Cylons—as well as the idea of Baltar's relationship with Six being a true human/Cylon pairing. It should be noted, however, that Ron D. Moore's "Gaius Baltar" differs significantly from the [[Baltar (TOS)|"Baltar" of the Original Series]]. The Baltar of the Original Series was a true turncoat with megalomaniacal tendencies; Gaius, on the other hand, is not power-hungry but is driven by a strong sense of self, albeit to the exclusion and ignorance of the needs of everyone else.

Gaius is often treated by Six as a human--ultimately the only human who will be allowed to survive by the Cylons. But the human models of Cylon also behave with classically human qualities (not all of them perfect or utopian) and seem to see each other in varying emotions (admiration and contempt are prevalent when Six speaks of the pregnant Caprica Valerii). So, at the least, Gaius is treated with no less respect than any other Cylon agent by his virtual Six. If we assume Gaius is indeed human, Six's interaction with Baltar (given the hostilities of the Cylons) borders on admiration. Although we can't necessarily use Six's emotions as a ''de facto'' gauge of Baltar's genuine humanity, it does lend to the mystery.

The storyline possibilities do change somewhat if Baltar has ''always'' been a Cylon. Note that Baltar has never spoken of his family or other friends (other than President [[Richard Adar|Adar]]), strongly suggesting Baltar has been a "loner." If Baltar's parentage (or offspring--he is rather promiscuous) cannot be confirmed (as has been done with Commander Adama, also on this list, then the laws of physics (nuclear shock wave damage to human tissue) as well as the laws of procreation (Cylons can't quite procreate as humans do) continue to leave open the possibility that Baltar is model of Cylon, however reduced the odds are now, based on Moore's new information.

==="Downloaded" all but disproves speculation===

The episode "[[Downloaded]]" contains revelations that make it extremely unlikely the Baltar is a Cylon. In dialogues with each other, numerous Cylon characters distinctly refer to Baltar as human. Although it is possible that they might keep the information from Baltar, the nature of the Cylon thought collective would seem to make no sense to keep it a secret to each other. In addition, this episode introduced the unique idea of a Number Six copy with a virtual ''Baltar'' in her head. Through Six, Baltar pushes for the Cylons to be more human; for example, letting [[Samuel Anders]] go free despite his destruction of a building and many other Cylon agents. If Baltar were a Cylon, the events in the episode would make little sense.

With this episode's end, the remaining tenuous thread to the now-remote likelihood of Baltar as a Cylon involves the manner of Baltar and Caprica-Six's relationship as opposed to [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and Chief [[Galen Tyrol]]. If we suppose as a certainty that both Baltar and Tyrol are human, then why does Baltar find himself with a virtual Six after she dies, while Tyrol does not find a virtual Boomer walking about after Boomer's death? Both humans find themselves denying their love, only to recant their claim later. What makes the Baltar-Six arrangement so strikingly different? Why, at all, have these virtual Six and Baltar incarnations appeared in the first place? If Baltar were a Cylon (albeit a model unknown to any other Cylon, which would stretch the plausibility of the nature of their collective thought process per "Downloaded"), would the love between two Cylons cause a "feedback loop" of emotion to spill over between the two Cylons, creating the virtual consciousnesses? Or, assuming that Baltar is fully human, if Cylons revive (medically) a dead human (as Baltar should be, given the destruction of his home and everything in it ''except him''), would such a revival cause the virtual consciousnesses to emerge? In contrast, Tyrol has not died (although he suffers a near-death by Dr. Baltar's hand in "[[Resistance]]") which may support this weaker, but faintly plausible concept of Baltar's true nature.

== Ellen Tigh? ==
* Regular association with other agents: No
* Known siblings or adult children: None
* Known family members: None
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: Maybe (Character over 40 years of age)
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Seven-year marriage to [[Saul Tigh]]

In light of her statistic-defying survival of the Cylon holocaust and her manipulations of her husband during Commander [[William Adama]]'s incapacitation ("[[Scattered]]" through "[[Resistance]]"), Ellen Tigh's actions have demonstrated the possibility that she may be a Cylon agent. For someone who seems so intelligent and far-sighted, she should be well aware that pushing her husband to strong-arm the rest of the Fleet to conform with his (and her) views would only end in chaos. If she ''is'' a Cylon looking to destroy the Fleet from within, then the best weapon in her arsenal is the man she's married to.

In an October 2005 webcast, [[Ronald D. Moore]] indicated that the likelihood of Ellen Tigh being a Cylon was low. Essentially, this was due to the feeling that having her be a Cylon agent would not only be convenient, but unrealistic from a story point-of-view as well. Moore's comments don't eliminate Ellen Tigh from consideration, but reduces the likelihood of this speculation. Some viewers surmise that Moore may have meant that revealing Tigh as a Cylon in her [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down|debut episode]] in addition to the character's many other complexities, would stretch the overall believability or integrity of the character at that point, but that he was not refering to her actual status as a Cylon or not at the time.

Ellen Tigh's celebrated her seventh wedding anniversary with Saul Tigh in a [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/deleted1.html deleted scene] from the episode "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]". If the canonicity of this scene stands, then Ellen's likelihood of being an agent drops dramatically.

== William Adama? ==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Sharon Valerii)
* Known siblings or adult children: Yes ([[Lee Adama]] and [[Zak Adama]])
* Known family members: Yes ([[Caroline Adama]] and [[Anne Adama]])
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: Yes (widely-known Veteran)
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (Saul Tigh)

Of all the suspected infiltrators, the case against William Adama appears to be the weakest.

In the Miniseries, Adama seems to know that the Cylon agents have "silica relays" in their brains, and that they would be affected by the storm around [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. This knowledge is not explained, but the [[Number Five]] copy left on the station showed signs of being affected, whereas Adama did not. In "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", Commander Adama disappears mysteriously and returns with Ellen Tigh. Around the same time, a Cylon Raider shows up. However, this was all explained later in the same episode, when Adama reveals that he was reluctant to openly announce Ellen's sudden appearance because he was afraid she could be a Cylon.

Adama also has exhibited strange behavior, from expressing vague Cylon sympathies (both in his speech in the Mini-Series and in his discussion with Tyrol in "[[Home, Part I]]" where he seems to concede that Boomer was more than a machine). While not openly friendly to the Cylons, Adama seems to at least respect them as persons in that he does not treat the Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii inhumanely (despite an attempt at strangling her when they first met), despite what was done to him by the Valerii copy known as "Boomer". While this could indicate a Cylon nature, it's also extremely likely that Adama's strength of character and personality enable him to think that Valerii might actually have changed.

William Adama is the father of two children, [[Lee Adama|Lee]] and [[Zak Adama|Zak]]. Before the conception of Valerii's hybrid child the Cylons have been unable to produce children through sexual reproduction. Further, Adama is, by all accounts, a veteran of the well-documented [[Cylon War]], back at a time where Cylons were purely mechanical and not biosynthetic.

When the recent revelation by Ron Moore that Cylon agents are unique beings and not copies of existing humans is added to this, the likelihood of William Adama as a suspected infiltrator could be all but ruled out. This also throws the validity of Leoben Conoy's final words to Roslin accusing Adama as a Cylon in "[[Flesh and Bone]]" into question (which were almost certainly meant to just spread paranoia).

The strongest convincing evidence against Adama as a Cylon is that we have seen flashbacks of Adama and Saul Tigh in the years prior to the destruction of the Colonies, after the first Cylon War. Since Cylon agents aren't copies of humans, it is not possible for Adama (or Tigh) to be Cylon operatives (at least of the type used thus far).

== Lee Adama? ==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Sharon Valerii)
* Known siblings or adult children: Yes, with qualifier (See "[[Black Market]]")
* Known family members: Yes ([[William Adama]], [[Zak Adama]])
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (William Adama)

In "[[Flesh and Bone]]", a copy of [[Leoben Conoy]], a Cylon agent, grabs [[Laura Roslin]] and tells her, "Adama is a Cylon," prior to his execution. If his statement is true, it leaves doubt on which Adama he is talking about, although Roslin's actions in the next episode, "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", indicate that she believes Conoy spoke of Commander Adama.

Cylon agents are not copies (clones) of existing people. Evidence from [[Sharon Valerii]]'s and [[Number Six]]'s conversations indicate that humanoid Cylon infiltration began no earlier than 2 years prior to the events of the [[Miniseries]], although their respective backstories may suggest they have been "alive" for many years. As Lee Adama was alive long before this introduction, and his father knew him since he was born and can thus confirm this, the probability that Lee Adama is a Cylon is as low as that of his father.

Information from the episode, "[[Black Market]]" suggests that Adama was to be a father to a child he conceived on Caprica, but he left the unborn child's mother, his lover at the time. Such a pregnancy, if Lee Adama was indeed an agent, would introduce the ability of Cylon ''males'' to sire children (currently, episodes only show that it is possible for a Cylon ''female'' to conceive).

''There are reports of fan fiction with stories involving Lee Adama as a Cylon. ''Battlestar Wiki'' does not post fan fiction (whole or in excerpts), or speculation generated by these stories. An article's content must (with some [[Toaster|silly]], [[Numerology|non-sequitur]] [[Flashlight|exceptions]]) provide sufficient basis in fact or probability based on aired episode information or other official sources as described in the [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad]] project page.''

== Felix Gaeta? ==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Sharon Valerii)
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Association with known disqualifing character: Yes (William Adama)

Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] is in a good position for a Cylon—not conspicuous but nonetheless in a position where he can help the Cylons quite a bit. Gaeta arguably seems to hand something to Boomer in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" before she shoots Adama (a frame by frame analysis shows that their hands are not in frame dispite the camera intentionally panning down when he shakes her hand, leaving the question unanswered). However, he did not hand her a gun, because pilots always carry sidearms, and she walked into CIC with it. Gaeta can recognize Cylon devices, and is close to [[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]]. He admitted to ignoring the Cylon device installed on his console in the [[miniseries]], explaining that he thought it was unimportant. Gaeta has plotted coordinates to a water planet, a Cylon [[tyllium]] base, and [[Kobol]] with uncanny accuracy. He "forgot" to send updated coordinates to the fleet in "[[Scattered]]", leaving ''Galactica'' vulnerable to Cylon electronic attack after having to network the ship [[Computers|computer]] systems together. In "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" Gaeta helps the Cylon cause by uncovering the ballot tampering which leads to the election of Gaius.

Gaeta's recent behavioral changes from the stress of working at evading the Cylons shows by "[[Final Cut]]" as Gaeta is shown in his interview drunk, smoking, and wearing a new tattoo. By the following episode, "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", Gaeta angrily snaps at Colonel Tigh for giving a difficult order, causing surprise throughout [[CIC]] since Gaeta is normally a calm, reserved officer even under the worst of conditions. Contrast this behavior with Boomer, the ''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii, who still appeared quite alert after 5 continuous days of combat status. Note the following dialogue from the first regular series episode, "[[33]]":

::'''[[Lee Adama|Apollo]]''': Hey, how about you, Boomer? [[Cottle|Doc]] tells me you're holding up better than anybody in the squadron.
::'''Boomer''': I'm tired, like everybody else.
::'''Apollo''': You never seem it.
::'''[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]''': 'Cause she's a Cylon.
::'''Boomer''': You're just gonna make me come over there and kick your ass, aren't you?

While even Cylon agents develop severe behavioral and physiological issues after extended work and abuse ([[Number Six#Gina|Pegasus]]), Cylon agents appear to be more resilient than humans, which may limit the likelihood of Gaeta's possible Cylon connection. On the other hand, if he were a Cylon, Gaeta's human personality may have finally been overtaxed by that time, suggesting that an actual human might have snapped earlier in their exodus in contrast.

In the end, Gaeta's likelihood as a Cylon operative may be in doubt over one key element: The Cylons appear to have integrated human agents into the Colonies no earlier than 2 years before the events of the Mini-Series. Gaeta has served on ''Galactica'' with Commander Adama for three years ([[Miniseries]]). Since humanoid Cylons are not clones of actual humans, the likelihood of Gaeta as a Cylon agent would depend on the start of Cylon agent introduction.

== Jammer? ==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Sharon Valerii, as deck specialist)
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Association with known disqualifing character: No

[[Jammer]] has exhibited suspicious actions numerous times. Along with [[Cally]] and [[Socinus]], he serves under Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] on the [[Hangar Deck|hangar deck]]. Jammer consistently makes remarks that seem to be trying to divide the humans against each other. When it was revealed to the Fleet that Cylons now can look like humans in "[[Litmus]]", he kept arguing that everyone should stop trusting each other and that it was "every man for himself now", while Socinus said that if they didn't trust each other they wouldn't survive. Cally even pointed out that Jammer's kind of thinking is ''exactly'' what the Cylons want: for everyone to become suspicious and paranoid. Jammer keeps doing this through the second season: when Tyrol is accused of being a Cylon in "[[Resistance]]" he immediately yells at Cally that the Chief must be a Cylon. Whenever Jammer appears he seems to be trying to sow mistrust among the crew. Also, he told the emotionally unstable Cally that she should be angry at "Boomer" (the first Sharon Valerii copy) not himself, for Tyrol's being suspected, and that she should take it up with Boomer. Jammer can then be seen as having manipulated Cally into killing Boomer (Cally need not be a Cylon; Jammer could tell she was suffering from post-traumatic stress after Kobol and that she would go after Boomer if he suggested it to her).

One of the biggest pieces of evidence against Jammer is that when ''Galactica'' was boarded by Cylon Centurions in "[[Valley of Darkness]]", Apollo and his group of marines found him hiding in a small arms locker, completely unharmed, although the room was littered with the corpses of crewmen the Cylons had killed. He claimed to have just hid then snuck inside, but perhaps he was already there and the Centurions spared him because they knew he was a Cylon as well. [[Anastasia Dualla]] was also found alive in a room filled with dead crewmen, but she was in the lavatory, which isn't a vital area of the ship, while Jammer was in a small arms locker. Further, Dualla was wounded; she had a light concussion and presumably a Centurion knocked her unconscious, assumed she was dead, and moved on. Jammer was just standing around inside of the weapons locker.

Jammer continues to exhibit pessimistic, counterproductive, and morale-draining behavior. When Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] was trying to construct the [[Blackbird]], he vocally tried to convince the other deckhands that it couldn't be done and it wasn't worth trying. He may have done this to undermine the military assets of ''Galactica'': the Cylons may be hoping to wear down ''Galactica's'' Viper numbers through gradual attrition, while because the Cylons have dedicated manufacturing capabilities for Raiders on the [[Cylon homeworld]] and possibly on basestars, Raiders are easily replaceable. With this in mind, the last thing the Cylons would want is for ''Galactica'' to start constructing her own replacement fighters ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

If Jammer isn't a Cylon, he's a useful idiot.

== Bell? ==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes ([[D'anna Biers]])
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Association with known disqualifing character: No

D'anna Biers' [[Bell|cameraman/assistant]] is another possible candidate for a Cylon infiltrator, as he has been shown willingly taking part in the same devious and manipulative activities as D'anna Biers ([[Final Cut]]). Whether he is a Cylon working in tandem with Biers, or just a nosy human journalist following his superior’s equally devious wishes has yet to be determined.

Bell's speculation as a Cylon agent is questionable based on some of his actions in "Final Cut." When he is free of D'anna Biers, he doesn't film sensitive, if seemingly trivial data. He overlooks the carbon dioxide scrubbers (A potential Cylon infiltator target). In addition, instead of filming the [[Hangar Deck]] after the destruction of the two [[Raider]]s, Bell focuses on Apollo's post-flight check.

== Billy Keikeya? ==
* Regular association with other agents: No
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: No.

[[Billy Keikeya]] might also be a Cylon due to the relative lack of confirmation surrounding his character. In a deleted scene in the Miniseries, it is revealed that Roslin met Billy for the first time when she boarded Colonial One to travel to Galactica; thus he presence can only be "confirmed" immediately before the attack, far short of even the 2 years that Number Six and Boomer had infiltrated the Colonies. Virtually nothing can be confirmed about Billy; although he states in the Miniseries that his parents and siblings were living on Picon when it was nuked, we really only have his word for it and no way to confirm that these were actual facts. Everyone just takes Billy's word for it. Billy has also stated (in deleted scenes in "[[Home, Part II]]") that he is an atheist. Again, he could simply be behaving based on implanted false memories that form a fake personality crafted by the Cylons, and it would be an ironic twist if an atheist character was revealed to belong to a race of religious zealots. That being said, the most recently revealed Cylon agent, [[Cavil]], also exhibts athestic or agnostic tendencies, explicidly stating that "there is no [[God]]" when interogated by Roslin and Adama.

Billy could be a Cylon that was sent to keep tabs on Laura Roslin during the attack; Roslin was a viable target due to her status as a high-ranking government official. In an interesting deleted scene in "[[Fragged]]" Billy appears in one of Roslin's dreams as a manifestation of her own doubts and fears. In the dream he antagonisticlly taunts her for her faith in the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and [[Kara Thrace]] then stabs her in the heart with a knife afterwhich she wakes up screaming in terror. Given the prophetic conotations of Roslin's previous dreams and visions this could ''possibly'' be taken as evidence for Keikeya being a Cylon, however like most deleted material its canonicity is tenative at best. <br>

The character of Billy Keikeya dies in the episode, "[[Sacrifice]]." As only Cylon agents can "return from the dead," the argument for Keikeya as a Cylon agent is effectively invalid unless the character appears in a present-time (non-flashback) episode of the series, which would confirm Keikeya's true nature. Although he might not appear as a regular again, he might appear in a later episode as a guest star to reveal that he was a Cylon the whole time.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Samuel Anders

2006-03-26T22:48:43Z

Ragestorm: changed tense, seeing as how he's not on Caprica anymore

{{Character Data|
|photo=[[Image:Anders.PNG|225px]]
|age=
|colony=[[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname=Samuel T. Anders
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=Married to [[Kara Thrace]]
|role=[[resistance (movement)|Resistance]] leader and Professional [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] player.
|rank=
|actor=[[Michael Trucco]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

Leader of the [[resistance (movement)|resistance group]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], '''Samuel T. Anders''' was also the captain of the professional [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] team known as the [[Caprica Buccaneers]].

==Biography==
Anders was leading his team in high-altitude training in the mountains outside of [[Delphi]] when the [[Cylon Attack]] occurred and the planet was bombarded with nuclear weapons.

Being in a high-altitude rural area shielded Anders and his team from the blasts and most of the radioactive fallout that followed. He and the Buccaneers became ''ad hoc'' resistance fighters from that point forward, raiding armories and collecting caches of weapons, anti-radiation medication, ammo and supplies in the hopes of staying alive and defending themselves against the Cylons.
[[image:Resistance-Anders_Starbuck.jpg|thumb|left|'''Anders''' and [[Kara Thrace]] play [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] at the [[resistance (movement)|Resistance]]'s HQ on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] in "[[Resistance]]".]]
Anders was able to rally upwards of over 100 people, mostly hikers and survivalists, to his resistance against the Cylons and from the former [[Delphi Union High School]] he was able to strike back at the Cylons for about 50 days. Unlike [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], the Caprica-based (and pregnant) [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], and [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]], Anders seems to be focused more on surviving on Caprica than he is with leaving the planet ([[Resistance]]).

Anders' main focus for a time keeping himself and his resistance movement alive long enough for Starbuck to return to Caprica once again with reinforcements from ''Galactica'' and evacuate them. Starbuck gave him her [[Identification Tags|fleet ID tags]] as a promise that she would come back for him. Aside from surviving and waiting for rescue, Anders planned to locate and destroy as many Cylon hybrid-producing "farms" as possible before Starbuck returns ([[The Farm]]).

Anders and the resistance movement begen conducting acts of terrorism against the Cylons after they appropriated Delphi for their own. His aim was to scare the Cylons into believing there is no safe place for them and to kill them in the most gruesome way possible so they remember when they are reborn what it is like to die violently, like in an explosion ([[Downloaded]]).

Anders' physical features vaguely resemble [[Lee Adama|Apollo]], which perhaps explains Starbuck's immediate attraction to him. However, Anders appears much more self-assured than Apollo.

Following the Cylon's reappropriation of Delphi, Anders and his fighters continued their insurgency, and carried out a series of attacks on the Cylons, the most notable of which was the destruction of a café which killed roughly 40 Cylons. Anders, having planted the bomb in a garage, was prevented from leaving when he had to stay and defend the bomb from a Centurion. Hiding behind a car on the other side of the garage, Anders was mostly protected from the blast but buried under some rubble, and was not comforted to be later "rescued" by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon]] and [[Number Three]]. Anders was spared, as he would be a useful source of information. When [[Caprica-Six]] began talking about genocide and God's love, Anders didn't understand, but used the opening to try and kill Three. Sharon knocked the gun out of his hand, and Three was more than willing to take revenge, but all were astonished when Six suddenly killed her. Heeding Six's orders to get out, Anders fled, still puzzled by what had transpired ([[Downloaded]]).

Anders survived an assault by the Cylons at the resistance's headquarters -- the same morning that the Caprica [[SAR]] team landed nearby. When retreating to the Raptors, the Cylons assaulted them ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]), forcing them to go to higher ground. After the Cylons stopped attacking them, Thrace feared the worst and had Anders promise to kill her -- so that the Cylons would be unable to put her in one of their [[farms]] -- and she promised that she would kill him as well. Fortunately, this was not the case as the Cylons had left the Colonies and that the survivors of their attack were spared.

After Anders had been rescued, he and Thrace had developed a relationship -- eventually forcing a rift to occur between Thrace and Lee Adama. They had married and moved to [[New Caprica]]. During the 380th day of Baltar's presidency, he had developed [[Wikipedia:pneumonia|pneumonia]], forcing Thrace to beg Lee Adama to release some antibiotics reserved for the ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'''s pilots.

Since the Cylons had forced the ''Pegasus'' and the defense fleet away from New Caprica, it is unknown whether or not Anders survives his sickness -- though he is visited by a copy of [[Leoben Conoy]] who inquires on Kara Thrace's whereabouts ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

==Notes==
*"Ander" is derived from a Greek term meaning "Man" (a well known example would be that "Anderson" means "Son of Man", etc). Fitting, given that Anders is leading the last free humans alive on Caprica in a resistance against the Cylons: it's literally a fight of "Man" versus Machines.

{{characters}}

[[Category: A to Z|Anders, Samuel T.]]
[[Category: Characters|Anders, Samuel T.]]
[[Category: RDM|Anders, Samuel T.]]

Anastasia Dualla

2006-03-25T16:34:36Z

Ragestorm: Removed "presumably" from the XO text, as per consensus on talk page

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Anastasia Dualla.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]]
|birthname= Anastasia Dualla (nickname "Dee")
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=Dating [[Lee Adama]] (formerly dating [[Billy Keikeya]] † )
|role= [[Tactical Officer]], [[CIC]], [[Battlestar (RDM)|Battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus]]''
|rank= Lieutenant
|actor= [[Kandyse McClure]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

As a member of ''[[Galactica|Galactica's]]'' command staff, Petty Officer 2nd Class '''Anastasia Dualla''' {{IPA|du.ˈɑ.lə}} manages the main communications board in [[CIC]], and works closely with [[William Adama|Adama]], [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]], and [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] in serving as ''Galactica's'' eyes and ears to her fighters and [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]]. Her responsibilities include:

* Monitoring fleet-wide [[Wireless|communications]], including all of ''Galactica's'' incoming and out-going communications
* Ensuring shipboard communications are properly logged ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]])
* Relaying communications to all of ''Galactica's'' [[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]] and [[Raptor|Raptors]] during off-ship missions
* Managing other minor CIC operations in Lt. Gaeta's absence.

== Biography ==

Dualla's father thought that her enlistment in the [[Colonial Fleet]] was crazy, and he viewed the military as a joke. She signed up anyway because she wanted to believe in something. This rift with her father would continue throughout her service and the last time they spoke they got in a heated argument; two weeks later the Cylons attacked, and Dualla never got a chance to reconcile with him ([[Final Cut]]).

At the time of the [[Cylon attack]] she monitors fleet-wide communications. Dualla is one of the first to notice the unusually-high levels of shipboard malfunctions and failures aboard other battlestars ([[Mini-Series]]).

After the Cylon attack, she co-ordinates Fleet activities with Tactical Officer [[Felix Gaeta]] (e.g. [[FTL|Jumps]]). In this responsibility, she discovers that the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' fails to Jump with the fleet after yet another Jump to escape a 5-day long, relentless attack by the Cylons after their escape from [[Ragnar Anchorage]] ([[33]]).

Due to his attraction to Dualla, presidential aide [[Billy Keikeya]] "volunteers" her to join an off-ship mission to the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' ([[Bastille Day]]). Led by Captain [[Lee Adama]], the mission is to attempt enlistment of prisoners aboard the ''Queen'' in resupplying ''Galactica'' with water following an act of sabotage ([[Water]]). During the mission, the team is taken hostage by prisoners during a jail break lead by fellow Sagittaron and political agitator [[Tom Zarek]].

Freed without personal harm during this siuation, Dualla returns Billy Keikeya's affections, and they date during off-duty periods ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

Dualla receives a minor concussion when Cylons board the ship ([[Valley of Darkness]]). Dualla aids in [[Laura Roslin]]'s escape from ''Galactica'' after the President's arrest by covering up the tracks of their secret communications coordinating their movements in the Fleet, and getting Colonel Tigh to sign permission to close off a causeway which they use as an escape route. At this time, Dualla seems to take a greater personal interest in [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] ([[Resistance]]).

Dualla is assigned to give [[D'anna Biers]] a tour around the battlestar as part of Bier's documentary of the ship ([[Final Cut]]). Lee Adama seems to return Dualla's personal attraction during a sparring exercise with the petty officer ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

Dualla's [[avionics]] training helps in building a stable communications package for the experimental [[Blackbird]] fighter ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

Keikeya, apparently attempting to solidify his relationship with the petty officer, proposes to Dualla, but she refuses. Keikeya later sees Dualla with Lee Adama on ''[[Cloud 9]]'' and accuses her of leading him on. Shortly after Keikeya's accusation, four terrorists commander the lounge and its occupants in exchange for the surrender of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]. When a ruse by Admiral [[William Adama]] is discovered, the [[Sesha Abinell|leader]] of the the terrorists orders Dualla's death. Keikeya intervenes and manages to shoot the terrorist, but the terrorist fatally wounds Keikeya before dying. Lee Adama is also left severely wounded from a friendly-fire incident during an abortive assault led by [[Kara Thrace]]. Dualla promises to watch over Lee Adama until he recovers in [[sickbay]]. When he finally regained conciousness, Dualla was so happy that neither of them noticed Starbuck leaving the sickbay with a heartbroken expression ([[Sacrifice]]).

A few months later, still in a relationship with Apollo, Dualla was involved with the counting of ballots for the Presidential election. Dualla conspired with [[Tory Foster]] and [[Saul Tigh]] to rig the election in Roslins's favor, indicating that she comprehended the disaster that would follow if Baltar was elected. Though the plot initally went off without a hitch, the efforts of Lt. Gaeta led to Adama's discovery of the duplicity, and the plot was covered up, with Baltar being elected to the Presidency.

A year later, Dualla served as an officer in the [[Pegasus]] [[CIC]], acting as both Communications and Executive Officer, one of few remaining crew serving on a Battlestar in orbit around [[New Caprica]] (Dualla and Apollo may have still had a relationship, given the look she gives him when Starbuck calls. She also fiddles with her ring finger, which may imply that she is now married). Dualla's keen eyes picked up DRADIS contacts, which gave the remnants of the Fleet advance warning to the arrival of full Cylon fleet. Dualla and the rest of the fleet jumped away, hoping to return to liberate New Caprica another day. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

== Notes ==

*Dualla's counterpart in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] is [[Rigel]].
*Dualla was known throughout all of the first season and part of of the second season only as "Dualla" or "Dee". Her first name was finally revealed in the episode, "[[Final Cut]]" in an on screen text scrawl during her documentary interview; her first name has yet to be spoken aloud. "Anastasia" means "resurrection" in Greek.

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown, eventually [[Lee Adama|Lee Adama]])''|title=Executive Officer of the [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''|after=Incumbent}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Dualla, Anastasia]]
[[Category:Characters|Dualla, Anastasia]]
[[Category:RDM|Dualla, Anastasia]]
[[Category:People from Sagittaron|Dualla, Anastasia]]

William Adama

2006-03-23T13:08:56Z

Ragestorm: /* Admiral Adama */

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:William Adama promo.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname= William Adama
|callsign= Husker
|death=
|parents= [[Evelyn Adama]] (mother), [[Joseph Adama]] (father)
|siblings=
|children= [[Lee Adama]] (alive), [[Zak Adama]] (deceased)
|marital status= Divorced ([[Caroline Adama]]), remarried to [[Anne Adama]]
|role=Commanding Officer, [[Battlestar (RDM)|Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''; Supreme Commander of the [[Colonial Fleet]]
|rank=Admiral
|cylon=
|actor=[[Edward James Olmos]]
|name=
}}

'''Admiral William Adama''' is the commanding officer of the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'', and the highest ranking officer left in the [[Colonial Fleet]].

== Biographical Notes ==

=== Background ===

William Adama was born on Caprica to [[Evelyn Adama|Evelyn]] and [[Joseph Adama]]. His mother was an accountant and his father, an attorney specializing in civil liberties ([[Litmus]]). They divorced while he was in his teens.

At the outbreak of the first [[Cylon War]], Adama was serving in the [[Colonial Fleet]] as a [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] pilot. He allegedly gained the call sign of "Husker" on account of his baritone "gravelled" voice. He proved to be a gifted pilot, shooting down his first [[Cylon]] on his very first mission. He racked-up his 1,000th deck landing while serving aboard the Battlestar ''[[Atlantia]]'' ([[Act of Contrition]]), when he held the rank of Lieutenant.

Adama served on ''[[Galactica]]'' during the war as a pilot. In the last week of the war, the battlestar was boarded by Cylon forces. He recalled to his friend and fellow war veteran [[Saul Tigh]] that the Cylons divided into two teams. One headed for the ship's [[Aft Damage Control|secondary damage control]] and vented the atmosphere, while the other proceded to [[Auxiliary Fire Control|auxiliary fire control]] and turned ''Galactica'''s guns against the fleet. Over 2,000 people died in the attack ([[Valley of Darkness]], [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/202/deleted1.html deleted scene]).

Following the Cylon armistice, William Adama married [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]]. They had two sons together: [[Lee Adama|Lee]] and [[Zak Adama|Zak]], before the pressures of Adama's career and the time he spent away from home of active service began to place a strain on their marriage. Nevertheless, this did not stop both Lee and Zak following their father into the service - both signing-up for training as Viper pilots.

[[Image:Youngadamafamily.jpg|thumb|left|A young William Adama and his two sons.]]

A photograph seen in the Miniseries seems to imply that Adama was still in the fleet when his children were roughly six to eight years old, but within a few years he had been discharged as the result of a reduction-in-force. His marriage to Caroline had apparently fully deteriorated by this point, and he found work on a civilian freighter where he met [[Saul Tigh]], who was to become a longtime friend.

After some time as a civilian, Adama married a second time, to a woman named [[Anne Adama|Anne]]. Her father was able to pull some strings with the defense subcomittee and Adama was reinstated to the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Adama himself arranged for Tigh's reinstatement a few years later.

=== Son's Death ===

During his training, Zak Adama became involved with his flight training officer, Lt. [[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]], to whom he became engaged shortly before taking his final qualifying flight ([[Act of Contrition]]). As a result of this, Thrace allowed her personal feelings interfere with her professional judgement, passing Zak Adama through flight school when she should have failed him ([[Mini-Series]]). Zak was later killed in an operational flight.

As a result of his son's death, Adama faced the failure of his marriage and estrangement from his eldest son, Lee. However, to counter this, he became acquainted with Kara Thrace, and such was the bond that formed between them, Thrace transferred from flight school to one of the Battlestar ''Galactica's'' squadrons, where she served with Adama for some two years before the Cylon's reappearance ([[Act of Contrition]]).

Adama is a natural military leader, as demonstrated by his rise to rank of Commander in charge of a Colonial battlestar. He has the rare combination of qualities that make up a good leader: insight, the ability to naturally command respect, a common touch that enables him to relate to the enlisted personnel under his command as well as his officers, intuition, intelligence, a strong belief in his own abilities, and the ability to take the advice of others. These qualities are reflected in the fact the personnel of all ranks aboard ''Galactica'' hold him in high regard, and know that his is approachable ([[Miniseries]]).

If Adama has any failings, they are his mistrust of politicians and his strong sense of loyalty to those he regards as family and friends. The former is demonstrated in his uneasy acceptance of [[Laura Roslin]] ([[Miniseries]], "[[33]]", "[[Water]]"), which is quickly undermined by Roslin's own doubts following her encounter with [[Leoben Conoy]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]). The latter is most clearly demonstrated by both his support of Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] and his actions when Kara Thrace is posted as Missing in Action.

Despite Tigh's obvious drinking problem ([[Miniseries]]), Adama retains him as his [[Executive officer]] when another commanding officer might have too easily transferred Tigh to a planetside desk job to avoid the embarrassment. While this demonstrated Adama's unstinting friendship for Tigh, it does the colonel no favors with the officers and crew under his command - many of whom are openly dismissive of him ([[Miniseries]]) - a fact that may encourage his drinking.

With Thrace, Adama's loyalty places the mission to find her above the need to protect [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] and ensure the survival of humanity - thus putting everyone at risk ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).

=== Surprise [[Cylon Attack]] ===

At the time of the Cylon's sudden attack on the Twelve Colonies, William Adama is serving out his final weeks as commander of the battlestar ''[[Galactica]]''. After some 50 years of service, the historic warship is in the process of being decommissioned, and it was one of Adama's final duties to formally hand her over to the [[Colonial Ministry of Education]] (by way of Education Secretary [[Laura Roslin]]) who would operate the ship as a living museum commemorating the original Cylon War and an educational center ([[Miniseries]]).

As a part of the decommissioning ceremonies, someone decides it would be a fitting tribute to have Lee Adama, recently-promoted to the rank of Captain, lead an honor flyby of Vipers - an ironic statement at best, given the strained relationship between the two men. The situation is not made any easier when Lee Adama finds he is to fly his father's battle-honored old Mark II Viper.

When he is first notified of the Cylon attack, Adama's first thoughts were, "Dead. We're all dead" ([[Home, Part II]]). Despite this, as well as the presumed loss of his wife in Caprica City, he manages to shepherd [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] to safety. Since the attack on the Twelve Colonies, Adama strives to lead the remnants of humanity with the same conviction as has marked his entire military career. Military discipline remains (mostly) intact aboard ''Galactica'', and she continues to operate as a top-rate warship, despite her lack of any other military support (up to the discovery of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'') and despite her reduced complement in terms of both fighters and crew.

[[image:Mini_Adama_Tigh_DRADIS.jpg|thumb|left|300px|Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] plot a course to [[Ragnar Anchorage]] in the [[Miniseries]].]]
As a combat veteran, Adama is more than capable of both strategic and tactical operations and making the decisions both require. When [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]] Fleet Headquarters is destroyed and then Admiral [[Nagala]] is killed, he unhesitatingly takes control of the Colonial's response to the Cylon incursion and starts defining a response to the onslaught. Once President Roslin convinces Adama the futility of fighting against overwhelming odds, and with what may be the last 50,000 humans that remain anywhere, he makes the switch to the more tactical thinking that keeps the Colonial fleet at least one step ahead of their Cylon pursuers. From the outset, he is savvy enough to give every single survivor of the devastating attack on the Colonies a reason for hope for the future: the legend of Earth. This falsehood comes back to haunt him as the weeks continue, as Roslin is aware of this lie to the crew and states this privately to Adama.

Away from the daily rigours of command, Adama continues to face the problem of [[humano-Cylon|humanoid Cylon agent]] infiltration within the Fleet ("[[Litmus]]", "[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]") and the possibility of saboteurs aboard ''Galactica'' and the Fleet ([[Water]]) - sabateurs who are still be at large, waiting for an opportunity to strike again. Adama has also had to redefine the boundaries of military and civil leadership, working as best he can with Laura Roslin, now recognized as the President of the people of the Twelve Colonies following the loss of practically all of the original Colonial [[government]].

Events since the Cylon attack causes Adama to reconcile with his son, Lee. While they do not always see eye-to-eye, the needs of ''Galactica's'' crew and humanity as a whole have enabled them to better understand one another and move past their differences.

Following the loss of seven of the ''Galactica's'' pilots, Adama is forced to face the truth concerning Zak Adama's death, and Kara Thrace's role within it. In a strange way, these two events are something of a catalyst for one another - Thrace's admission to Adama forces him to realize how precious his remaining son is to him, and how difficult a father he must have been ("[[You Can't Go Home Again]]", "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]"); Adama's ability to admit his love and respect for his son enables the elder Adama to overcome his anger towards Thrace after her admission to him ([[Act of Contrition]]).

===Kobol and Earth===
At the start of the exodus from the Twelve Colonies, Adama uses the legend of Earth as a means of binding the remnants of humanity together with a single hope. Unfortunately, this later causes the greatest rift in leadership within the Colonial fleet. Following the accidental discovery of [[Kobol]], which [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] sees pre-ordained in scripture, Adama finds himself confronted by what amounts to a court-martial situation. With members of his crew -- and the Vice President, [[Gaius Baltar]] -- trapped on the surface of Kobol, Adama orders Kara Thrace to use a captured [[Cylon Raider]] to destroy a Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in orbit above Kobol. However, President Roslin persuades Thrace to use the Raider to go to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] to retrieve the [[Arrow of Apollo]] at [[Delphi]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

This action results in Adama terminating Roslin's presidency in what amounts to a coup, only to find [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] forced to arrest [[Lee Adama]] for mutiny while on ''[[Colonial One]]'' to remove President Roslin from office. With Thrace gone, Adama dispatches [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Lieutenant Valerii]] to destroy the basestar over Kobol. While the mission is successful, Valerii's Cylon programming reveals itself and shoots Adama at point blank range as he thanks her for her work on her return ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Adama's injuries are left untreated when a second basestar suddenly appears, forcing ''Galactica'' and the Fleet to perform an emergency [[FTL|Jump]].

Unfortunately, the chaos of the situation leaves ''Galactica'' without the same Jump coordinates as the Fleet, and the battlestar is separated in another area of space ([[Scattered]]). Worst of all, Dr. [[Cottle]], the Fleet's only doctor, is on one of the other ships in the Fleet. While Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]] determines how to return to the Fleet, and as ''Galactica'' is raided by a [[Cylon Centurion]] boarding party, the [[Layne Ishay|medics]] on hand stabilize the commander's condition long enough for Dr. Cottle to return. After a lengthy and risky operation, Cottle repairs the damage to Adama's body.

Adama rests unconscious while Tigh declares martial law to counteract Roslin's supporters in the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. Roslin escapes the ship with Lee Adama's help, and hide throughout the fleet as Adama regains consciousness and returns to command. Roslin gains sufficient support and returns to Kobol, convincing over a third of the Fleet to Jump to Kobol in search of the path to Earth. Adama is incensed as, being a man with generally secular beliefs, he never truly believed in the existence of Earth of the Pythian scriptures and (incorrectly) feels that most others believe the same.
[[image:Home_pt1-Adama.jpg|thumb|300px|Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] paints a model boat while talking to [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] in "[[Home, Part I]]."]]
Adama's calm exterior barely holds back the helplessness and rage he feels over the betrayal of his son, Sharon Valerii, Roslin, and over 18,000 others that left with Roslin for Kobol. While at first Adama takes a similar stance to Tigh in assuming a hard military posture, a conversation with Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] helps him realize again (as Dualla and [[Billy Keikeya]] showed him before the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]) that, despite the problems, the Fleet is his family, and the family must stay together. He orders the remainder of the Fleet to prepare to return to Kobol ([[Home, Part I]]).

Adama's attitude about Roslin and her quest changes from anger to genuine interest as he and his command staff track the likeliest location where Roslin's group searches for the [[Tomb of Athena]]. Rather than being skeptical about Roslin's visions, for instance, Adama begins to take them as face value, considering that data just as useful as the maps in front of him. Realizing that only he could reach out to Roslin to reunite the Fleet ("It was always between us anyway"), Adama leaves ''Galactica'' to Tigh's command while he, Tyrol, [[Margaret Edmonson|Racetrack]], and Keikeya head to Kobol to find Roslin's group.

Adama greets his son, Lee, with raised guns, accidentally surprising Roslin's camp. Adama hugs his son and warmly greets Roslin and Thrace. However, on seeing the Caprica-based version of Sharon Valerii, Adama examines her eerily, grabs her by the throat and hurls her down to the ground while the camp tries to explain the reason why she was in camp. "I want you to die" was all that Adama could express before his pent-up anger became more physical, the exertions from his recovery catching up to him. He rolls off Valerii with aid, clutching his chest. Adama is given an explanation but remains understandably wary of this new copy of the [[Humano-Cylon|Cylon agent]].

Adama and Roslin have a talk unlike any other they've shared in the past, both calling each other by their first names, casually. Adama tells Roslin that he forgives her for her actions in the past weeks, and leaves the apology stand even when Roslin casually notes that she wasn't asking for his permission. When Roslin speaks of the [[Resistance (movement)|resistance]] on Caprica and whether ''Galactica'' and her Fleet should have returned to fight instead of leaving from Ragnar Anchorage, Adama rejects the notion, saying he did not come to Kobol to "navel gaze" at what they could have done. He thanks Laura for saving him, his son, and the Fleet, for if he did not follow Roslin's advice to leave the system before the fight at Ragnar, he believes they would have all died.

Moments after discovering the entrance to the Tomb of Athena, Caprica-Valerii raises a gun at Adama's chest while [[Meier]], one of [[Tom Zarek]]'s men, raises his gun to Lee Adama, who is now aiming at Valerii. Meier was attempting an assassination of both Adamas to allow Zarek more political power after Roslin's demise, trying to use Valerii as a pawn to remove attention from Zarek. Immediately, Valerii turns her gun to Meier and fires. Lee Adama picks off a second shooter, while Valerii explains to Adama that she is fully aware of who she is and that, unlike her ''Galactica'' counterpart known as Boomer, she does not have hidden protocols or programming. She surrenders her weapon to Adama. Adama's feelings on Valerii remain guarded as she is placed in the special cage created for her counterpart on their return to ''Galactica.''

Adama enters the Tomb with Roslin, Lee, Kara, and Billy, the rest left guarded by Tyrol. The group successfully activates the map with the [[Arrow of Apollo]] and gain useful information on the true whereabouts of Earth. Back on ''Galactica'', Adama firmly buries the hatchet between he and Roslin publically by introducing Roslin as the President for a speech to members of the fleet, and leads a formal, unified ovation by applause for Roslin ([[Home, Part II]]).

===Common Ground===

To help undo the damage to the military's reputation in the Fleet after the "''[[Gideon]]'' incident", President Roslin and Adama give a [[Fleet News Service]] reporter, [[D'anna Biers]], unlimited access of the ship to interview the crew and watch their work and off-shift behavior. Bier's resulting documentary is very moving, and Adama gives his approval to release it for airing to the Fleet, who believes it shows the best of his crew, "warts and all". Adama is not aware that Biers is a Cylon infiltrator that has also passed out intelligence to her counterparts on Caprica of the existance and pregnancy of Helo's copy of Sharon Valerii ([[Final Cut]]).

''Galactica'' is beset by mysterious malfunctions throughout the ship. Worse, crew morale is very low, with no relief, little true recreation, and a sense of no future plagues many throughout the ship. Even the stoic and reliable Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] vents his frustration to the surprise of everyone in [[CIC]]. Deck Chief [[Galen Tyrol]], fighting his own sense of hopelessness, begins a project to build a replacement fighter from spare parts. Over time, others in the ship join in on the "pet project". Despite the need to stop the increasing malfunctions, Adama is reluctant to stop work on Tyrol's project unless necessary as it gives the crew a creative outlet. Some time later, after the new fighter completes its maiden flight, Adama and Roslin christen the new stealth fighter, the [[Blackbird]]. Adama tells Roslin that the crew's nicknaming the fighter "Laura" was a honor they wanted to do for the President, given her service to them as well as their feelings about her illness.

Adama solicits the help of the incarcerated Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii, ordering [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] to show her a portion of the Cylon virus code found in the ship's computers. She reacts in shock and tells Adama that this code was part of a [[logic bomb]] that will take over the battlestar, killing its crew and directing its guns at the remaining Fleet to destroy it. She also strongly believes, as did Adama, that this bomb was an indication of an imminent Cylon attack. Lieutenant Gaeta and [[Gaius Baltar]] devise a way to rid themselves of the bomb, but during this process, the battlestar would be practically defenseless. Adama needs a way to stop the incoming Cylon forces and asks President Roslin for advice on trusting the second Valerii for help. She responds by asking him to find common ground between Valerii and himself, despite his prejudices about her. In a desperate plan, Adama brings Valerii to CIC, where she uses her humanoid Cylon brain to send a virus back to the massive Cylon fleet that appears, deactivating every single enemy fighter. ''Galactica's'' Vipers easily destroy all enemy Raiders without a single casualty ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

===The Discovery of Battlestar ''Pegasus''===

The sudden discovery of the [[Mercury class battlestar|advanced battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', commanded by Admiral [[Helena Cain]], is a very welcome event for Adama and his war-weary crew, and surely brings additional hope to the civilian fleet. But Cain's command staff--as well as her crew--seem oddly power-hungry, angrily disciplined, and, perhaps, the perfect reason why the Cylons might decide the human race should be annihilated. Adama, a soldier accustomed to taking orders, puts on a stoic face as Cain assumes command of the fleet. Not even Adama's relaxed smile convinces Laura Roslin of Adama's attitude when she asks how he was handling his change in command. Her guess was correct: something about the Admiral bothers Adama, but he is reluctant to discuss it. Adama follows his own truism about the Admiral: stick to what you know, until you find something better.

Adama's troubles with Cain begin with her choice to furnish supplies only to ''Galactica'' and not the civilian fleet, a point that Roslin hopes Adama would be able to correct. After Cain reads Adama's ship logs of the last 3 months, Cain reassigns Lieutenant Thrace and his son, Lee, to her ship. She explains that Adama was too close to his son, that Starbuck was an insubordinate officer that required structure, and that Adama had let military discipline become lax. Adama's stony face barely hides his anger, which he partially releases on Apollo and Starbuck as he orders them without commentary to transfer to ''Pegasus.'' Cain makes some valid observations about lax discipline on ''Galactica'', so Adama grudgingly accepts her re-shuffling of personnel.

Matters with Cain's unusually totalitarian command style come to a head when Cain orders her "Cylon interrogator", Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne]], to interrogate the normally cooperative [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii]]. Thorne's method of "interrogation" was sexual assault. Lt. Agathon and Tyrol discover the truth of Thorne from members of ''Pegasus''' crew. They rush to Valerii's cell and stop Thorne, accidentally killing him. Adama is given assurances by Cain that the arrested men will be tried fairly on her ship, but she refuses to assemble a tribunal to conduct the trial.

A few hours later, Adama is told that Agathon and Tyrol were tried and convicted--and solely by Cain herself. Cain claims that wartime status granted her extra powers, but Adama disagrees, realizing that his fleet wasn't on an offensive posture and requires cooperation and not military rule, as ''Galactica'' could have done long ago at Ragnar Anchorage by fighting to win and abandoning the civilian fleet. Adama's stony acceptance of taking orders from the renegade admiral immediately ceases. He orders the alert Vipers and a Raptor--filled with [[marines]]--to head to ''Pegasus'' to retrieve his men, and Cain deploys her Vipers. Adama is headed into yet another fight for the survival of his Fleet--his family--against a vastly superior force, and it doesn't seem to matter to him one wit if it is the Cylon fleet, or Cain's hostile, warmongering forces ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

The standoff between the battlestars fortunately doesn't begin with an exchange of any fire from battlestars or fighters. However, Adama watches as his Vipers dance with ''Pegasus'' Vipers in a deadly game of "chicken", with ''Pegasus'' pilots attempting to force ''Galactica's'' fighters to fire first, which, by rules of engagement, would authorize return fire. Adama keeps silent, awaiting the inevitable collision or misfire that will start the bloodshed when Lt. Gaeta picks up what appears to be a [[Raider]] that manages to get ''very'' close to the Fleet without an earlier [[DRADIS]] alert. Picking up the surprise target as well, ''Pegasus'' fighters stop the chicken game and fly formation with Adama's fighters to intercept the target. The target turns out to be Kara Thrace in the [[Blackbird]], returning from her unauthorized but very successful self-appointed reconnaissance mission to the mysterious Cylon ship that trails the Fleet. Her sudden entrance allows a ''detente'' between the battlestar commanders, who meet on ''Colonial One''. There, President Roslin gives both commanders a harsh grilling and reminds them of the importance of the Fleet's survival and the intentions of the Cylon fleet following them. Adama appears actually chastized about the situation and remains quiet, except when Roslin patronizes Cain in saying that ''Pegasus'' would triumph in a firefight with ''Galactica'' ("I wouldn't count on that," he simply says). After Cain leaves, Roslin speaks with Adama privately and, to Adama's surprise, suggests that he kill Cain before she kills him and destroys the Fleet for her own wartime devices. Adama leaves to think about it, unsure if he could be an assassin.

Adama apologizes to the most unlikely person--the copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], who was sexually assaulted by ''Pegasus'' Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne]]. While Valerii shows signs of shock and anger, Dr. [[Cottle]] acknowledges she and her unborn baby are mostly unharmed. Adama asks Cottle to see that ''she'' is OK (not calling her "it") and orders her returned to her cell after her care. Afterwards, Adama visits the port [[Hangar Deck|hangar deck]], appearing as to get Viper flight status, but in reality is there to learn a little about [[Peter Laird]], his interim deck chief from ''Pegasus''. Realizing he's not military, Adama asks more from [[Cally]], who says that rumors indicate that Laird was from a civilian fleet once guarded by ''Pegasus''. A conversation with Col. Tigh and Jack Fisk confirms the worst: ''Pegasus'' abandoned its civilian fleet, but not without conscripting many civilians into military service and stripping supplies and fuel from it, leaving what remained of the ships to fend for themselves. Resistance was quelled by shooting the families of those who would not leave with the battlestar, Fisk said.

Adama's relationship with Roslin grows closer. He visits her in bed, not looking at all well, but jovial nonetheless. Adama inquires of her unusually "bloody-minded" attitude towards Cain; Roslin replies that as long as Cain survives, his future and that of the Fleet is at risk. He asks if she needs anything, and Roslin humorously suggests she'd like a nice, young [[Humano-Cylon|Cylon body]] to replace her own. When Adama says he can't picture her as a blonde, Roslin smiles and says that he'd be surprised. As he leaves, wiping a tear from his eye as he turns back to the president, Roslin reminds him to watch his back, and do what he has to do.

After a briefing on the upcoming battle to destroy the [[Resurrection Ship]] and its fleet, attended by Cain and Adama, Adama requests permission to speak more with Kara Thrace on the battle tactics, which Cain grants as she returns to ''Pegasus''. Adama dismisses his son, cryptically telling him "Stay focused, son," while he asks the unusual from Thrace. After the battle, Adama asks her to enter the ''Pegasus'' CIC, with Lee Adama by her side to cover her, and to shoot Admiral Cain in the head. Little does Adama know that Admiral Cain has planned a similar assassination attempt with her XO and several members of her Marine division.

Lieutenant Lee Adama visits his father by volunteering for a courier run between the battlestars. The elder Adama doesn't want to talk too much about the operation, but is happy to see him. Adama continues his new pattern of seeking advice from unusual places by inviting his copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] to his quarters to ask her why the Cylons hate the humans so much. She can't answer the question directly, but asks him to remember something in the speech he gave at the decommissioning ceremony ([[Miniseries]]): Has humanity asked itself ''why'' it deserved to survive, given all its failings?

With the battle to destroy the Resurrection Ship a success, Adama has an opportunity to have Starbuck shoot Cain, but takes the advice of Valerii again and chooses to be better than what humans have become. Strangely, Cain also aborts her attempt on Adama's command and life, something that greatly relieves [[Jack Fisk]], who laughs out loud and invites the crew for a drink.

Cain's fate is sealed not by Adama but [[Gina]], the captured and tortured Cylon agent, who shoots and kills the admiral in her quarters. After Cain's funeral, on ''Colonial One'', President Roslin, looking very frail, promotes Adama to Admiral, joking that some people may not think she knew much about military protocol, but that she knows that a commander of two or more capital ships should be an admiral. Adama smiles, says that he's never given up hope about getting admiral rank, but stopped chasing them after a while. Roslin appears ready to retire and has trouble standing, when Adama helps lift and steady her. In a pleasant surprise, now-Admiral Adama takes Laura Roslin's face in hand and gives her a simple, affectionate kiss, which she returns to smiles on both faces. [[Billy Keikeya]] helps the president back to her quarters while Adama's smile turns into sadness over Roslin's illness.

=== Admiral Adama ===

Shortly after the Battle of the Resurrection Ship, it is clear that Roslin is nearing death. In her final moments, Roslin orders Adama to kill Caprica-Valerii's [[Hera|unborn child]]. Adama cannot bring himself to terminate the pregnancy, and it is shortly revealed that it is a good thing he hesitated: Baltar finds a cure for Roslin's cancer within the child's blood. Roslin is saved and Adama is visibly pleased that she has pulled through. Meanwhile, Adama becomes aware of the [[Demand Peace]] movement among the fleet. Adama meets with [[Royan Jahee]], the leader of the movement, and attempts to explain that the Cylons don't want peace, they want too annihilate every lving human being. Jahee doesn't believe Adama, and the meeting ends with the two men in no different places than where they started.

===The Election and the "Lighthouse Keeper"===
Adama offers ''Galactica'' as the location for the counting of ballots during the Presidential Election, a proposal which is accepted despite Zarek's protests over the ships connection with Roslin. Unknown to Adama, Tigh and Dualla conspire to rig the election in favor President Roslin out of mistrust for Dr. Baltar (an opinion which Adama shares). Not long after the polls close and she is declared the winner, Lt. Gaeta contacts the admiral with his suspicions that Tigh attempted to rig the election. When confronted, Roslin admits that she gave her aid, Tory Foster, permission to "try something," out of almost desperation; she is certain disaster will strike if Baltar is elected and begs Adama to keep quiet by telling him of Baltar's involvement with [[Caprica-Six|Six]]. Adama isn't swayed, and convinces Roslin that the correct course of action is to acknowledge a miscount and cover the conspiracy. When President-Elect Baltar demands an investigation into the midcount, an irritated Adama orders him to take his victory and leave, which Baltar does grudgingly.

When [[Cloud Nine]] and two other ships blow up as a result of [[Gina]]'s nuclear bomb, Adama is privately infuriated at Baltar's refusal to investigate, and begins to wonder if he hadn't made a mistake.

A year later, Adm. Adama commanded a heavily under-staffed ''Galactica'' as the flagship of a Defense Fleet, consisting of all ships unable or unwilling to make planetfall on [[New Caprica]]. Adama convinced [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] to rejoin Ellen in [[New Caprica City]] after months of debate, with [[Helo]] acting as his new XO. Not long after Saul left, Dualla, acting XO of the Pegasus, discovered the Cylon Fleet bearing down on New Caprica. After a brief discussion, the Adamas agreed to jump the Fleet to pre-arrangeed coordinates. The admiral issued the orders with a reminder "We're going... but we'll be back."

==Additional Notes==
*[[Wikipedia:Adama|Adama]] (also known as Nazareth) is the name of a large city in Ethiopia. The name is also a variation on [[Wikipedia:Adam and Eve|"Adam"]], the first man to be created according to the Bible in the [[Wikipedia:Genesis|Book of Genesis]].

In hebrew the word pronounced "Adama" means earth.
Here is SkyOne's summary of Adama:

:''William Adama was born on the colony of Caprica, in a small coastal community.''

:''His mother Evelyn was an accountant and his father, Joseph, was an attorney who specialised in criminal defence and civil liberties.''

:''At the age of 16 his parents divorced and he applied to the Colonial Fleet Academy. That same year, the Cylon War broke out. Adama's training accelerated along with all other midshipmen.''

:''After 3 years Adama was commissioned to work as a flight pilot; he gained a further two years of training before Adama joined his first squadron. He was a gifted, natural pilot and he shot down a Cylon fighter in his first mission.''

:''After the war was over, Adama was mustered out of the service along with millions of other colonials as part of demobilization process. He went home to Caprica, married his high school sweetheart and started life over.''

:''Adama struggled to find work as a pilot and so signed up as a deck hand in the merchant fleet. This experience would later give him an uncommon insight into the lives and struggles of the enlisted ranks aboard Galactica.''

:''Adama later had two sons, Lee and Zak. But over the years his exploration aboard ships would see Adama spending less time with his sons. He always tried to instill duty and admiration for military services. But was still surprised to learn that both his sons decided to enter the Fleet and become pilots.''

:''When Zak died during a training flight. Lee confronted his father and laid blame for his younger brother's death.''

As this information has not appeared on the official Scifi.com site, its authenticity is in question. Further, this information states that Adama was fighting in the war 5 years into it, when the war lasted 12 years and RDM has stated in podcasts that Adama only served in the final year of the war.

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=Unknown; Eventually [[Peter Dash]]|title=''Commanding of the Battlestar ''[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=Incumbent}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Adama, William]]
[[Category:Characters|Adama, William]]
[[Category:RDM|Adama, William]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Adama, William]]

[[es:William Adama]]

Number Five

2006-03-23T12:46:07Z

Ragestorm: /* Other Copies */

{{Character Data|
|photo=[[Image:Doral.PNG|200px]]
|age=
|colony= One copy claimed to be from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname=
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role=Cylon Infiltrator
|rank=
|actor=[[Matthew Bennett]]
|cylon=Y
|name=Aaron Doral
}}

Cylon model '''Number Five''', known to the humans as '''Aaron Doral''', appears to be a man in his mid-thirties. He was initially encountered aboard [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'', where he was operating as a public relations executive. Later he was active both within the fleeing Colonial fleet and on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. He seems designed to network, almost to the point of being the sleazy used-car salesman type, but with a sadistic, violent side.

But Doral is a [[Cylon agent]] in reality. The Doral model's purpose is to attempt to sow the seeds of discontent or confusion, particularly during crucial life-threatening situations. Doral models endeavor to undermine authority that threatens his objectives. Doral models are more covert, assuming an ordinary "everyman" appearance that's blended in what may seem to be insignificant behind-the-scenes issues (such as converting ''Galactica'' into a museum). Fives are among the most militant, fanatic and consistent to the Cylon objectives (only the Threes match them), whether they are dispassionately discussing the fate of humanity with his comrades or attempting to kill or maim Colonials in a suicide bomb attack ([[Litmus]]).

__TOC__
== PR Executive Copy ==

Doral appears to be exactly what he claims when viewers first see him in the [[Mini-Series]]: a PR executive. He coordinates the ceremony surrounding ''Galactica's'' decommissioning and transfer to the civilian authorities represented by Secretary of Education [[Laura Roslin]]. During the lead-up to the ceremony, he mocks the Galactica as antiquated and advocates automated defense systems (which would be more vulnerable to Cylon interference).

In the role of PR executive, Doral is efficient, polite and able to carry out his work without ruffling the feathers of those around him, while at the same time marshalling and managing the media. He usually wears an emerald suit and tie.

Following Gaius Baltar's arrival on ''Galactica'', Doral becomes the fall-guy Baltar needs to divert any suspicions he feels may otherwise be directed at him following the Cylon incursion into the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. In this, he is partially steered by [[Number Six]] - although the selection of Doral as his fall-guy appears to be Baltar's own choice by educated guess ([[Mini-Series]]).

Arrested and thrown into the brig, Doral loudly proclaims his innocence of all charges, citing his background and upbringing: that he was born in [[Oasis]], a hamlet near [[Caprica City]], and grew up on the south side of Caprica City itself before going to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], where he studied public relations at the Kobol Colleges ([[Mini-Series]]).

Later, after being left at the [[Ragnar Anchorage]] space station, Doral exhibits all of the symptoms initially shown by the Cylon agent [[Leoben Conoy]], confirming the fact that he is a Cylon agent and that, however "coincidentally," Baltar selected the "right" man.

Given his protestations of innocence, and the palpable level of fear he demonstrates within the brig, it is possible that this Doral copy is a "sleeper" Cylon agent. Like [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]], this Doral may have been programmed to think he genuinely ''is'' human, until the radiation around Ragnar affects his [[Silica Pathways|silica pathways]], causing his Cylon identity to come to the fore. He is rescued and debriefed by a group of his fellow Cylon agents, including another Number Five.

== Suicide Bomber Copy ==
[[Image:Litmus_Doral.jpg|thumb|left|300px|[[Aaron Doral]] in his suicide bomber role aboard ''[[Galactica]]''. (Credit: Sci-Fi Channel)]]
A copy of Doral also turns up on ''Galactica'' as a suicide bomber ([[Litmus]]), using explosives he steals from a small-arms locker to create a primitive bomb he detonates in a corridor of the ship after being challenged by [[William Adama]].

At the time of the explosion, [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] suggests that Doral's intended target was [[Gaius Baltar]]. There is little direct evidence to back-up Starbuck's claim. Sergeant [[Hadrian]]'s investigation into the matter establishes that the small arms locker used by Doral is located relatively close to the flight pod (where Doral would have come aboard). Therefore, the fact that the locker and Baltar's lab resided on the same deck may have been coincidental.

Doral appears to spend some time wandering through the ship before detonating his bomb, which suggests he may have been looking for a target of opportunity, such as a command staff member or sensitive area such as [[CIC]].

== Caprican Overseer Copy ==
[[Image:Bsg-doral.jpg|thumb|Doral in his overseer role. (credit: Sci-Fi Channel)]]
On Caprica, Number Five performs the role of a Cylon overseer, working with [[Number Six]] to ensure their experiment involving the stranded [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii]] either reaches its desired conclusion, or is suitably terminated ([[Litmus]], [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]). He wears a red suit, more ulitarian than that of his PR executive counterpart.

In this, Five shows a harder attitude towards humans than Six. When she expresses regret that the destruction of humanity was necessary in order for the Cylons to achieve their ends, he is not so forgiving:

*Six: "This all makes me so sad."
*Five: (matter-of-fact) "They would have destroyed themselves anyway. They deserve what they got."
*Six: "We're the children of humanity. That makes them our parents in a sense."
*Five: "True - but parents have to die. It's the only way children come into their own."

([[Bastille Day]])

Later, however, when Six is disdainful of Valerii's apparent feelings for Agathon when the Caprican experiment goes awry, Five is more sympathetic, wondering what it must be like to be driven by passion that marks Agathon's action: "Even in his anguish he seemed....so alive" ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

==Other Copies==

In "[[Final Cut]]," a Number Five is one of the Cylons that watches [[D'anna Biers]]' broadcast. He comments that the life of Sharon and Helo's hybrid child must be protected at all costs.

Several copies of Number Five are seen on Cylon-occupied Caprica throughout "[[Downloaded]]", the episode where it was revealed that he is the fifth in the sequence of twelve Cylon models. A Five is one of the four 'rebirth nurses' that welcome first [[Caprica-Six]] and later [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]], the "Heroes of the Cylon" back to life after their respective downloads into new bodies. Another copy is serving coffee at the cafe which is bombed by [[Samuel Anders]]' resistance group, while yet another rescued "Caprica" and Sharon from the ruins of a garage later the same day.
A Five was part of the leading group during the invasion of [[New Caprica]] during "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" along with the aforementioned "Heroes of the Cylon."

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Number Five]]
[[Category:Characters|Number Five]]
[[Category:Cylons|Number Five]]
[[Category:RDM|Number Five]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Doral, Aaron]]

[[es:Número Cinco]]

Number Five

2006-03-23T03:49:14Z

Ragestorm: /* Other Copies */

{{Character Data|
|photo=[[Image:Doral.PNG|200px]]
|age=
|colony= One copy claimed to be from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname=
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role=Cylon Infiltrator
|rank=
|actor=[[Matthew Bennett]]
|cylon=Y
|name=Aaron Doral
}}

Cylon model '''Number Five''', known to the humans as '''Aaron Doral''', appears to be a man in his mid-thirties. He was initially encountered aboard [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'', where he was operating as a public relations executive. Later he was active both within the fleeing Colonial fleet and on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. He seems designed to network, almost to the point of being the sleazy used-car salesman type, but with a sadistic, violent side.

But Doral is a [[Cylon agent]] in reality. The Doral model's purpose is to attempt to sow the seeds of discontent or confusion, particularly during crucial life-threatening situations. Doral models endeavor to undermine authority that threatens his objectives. Doral models are more covert, assuming an ordinary "everyman" appearance that's blended in what may seem to be insignificant behind-the-scenes issues (such as converting ''Galactica'' into a museum). Fives are among the most militant, fanatic and consistent to the Cylon objectives (only the Threes match them), whether they are dispassionately discussing the fate of humanity with his comrades or attempting to kill or maim Colonials in a suicide bomb attack ([[Litmus]]).

__TOC__
== PR Executive Copy ==

Doral appears to be exactly what he claims when viewers first see him in the [[Mini-Series]]: a PR executive. He coordinates the ceremony surrounding ''Galactica's'' decommissioning and transfer to the civilian authorities represented by Secretary of Education [[Laura Roslin]]. During the lead-up to the ceremony, he mocks the Galactica as antiquated and advocates automated defense systems (which would be more vulnerable to Cylon interference).

In the role of PR executive, Doral is efficient, polite and able to carry out his work without ruffling the feathers of those around him, while at the same time marshalling and managing the media. He usually wears an emerald suit and tie.

Following Gaius Baltar's arrival on ''Galactica'', Doral becomes the fall-guy Baltar needs to divert any suspicions he feels may otherwise be directed at him following the Cylon incursion into the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. In this, he is partially steered by [[Number Six]] - although the selection of Doral as his fall-guy appears to be Baltar's own choice by educated guess ([[Mini-Series]]).

Arrested and thrown into the brig, Doral loudly proclaims his innocence of all charges, citing his background and upbringing: that he was born in [[Oasis]], a hamlet near [[Caprica City]], and grew up on the south side of Caprica City itself before going to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], where he studied public relations at the Kobol Colleges ([[Mini-Series]]).

Later, after being left at the [[Ragnar Anchorage]] space station, Doral exhibits all of the symptoms initially shown by the Cylon agent [[Leoben Conoy]], confirming the fact that he is a Cylon agent and that, however "coincidentally," Baltar selected the "right" man.

Given his protestations of innocence, and the palpable level of fear he demonstrates within the brig, it is possible that this Doral copy is a "sleeper" Cylon agent. Like [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]], this Doral may have been programmed to think he genuinely ''is'' human, until the radiation around Ragnar affects his [[Silica Pathways|silica pathways]], causing his Cylon identity to come to the fore. He is rescued and debriefed by a group of his fellow Cylon agents, including another Number Five.

== Suicide Bomber Copy ==
[[Image:Litmus_Doral.jpg|thumb|left|300px|[[Aaron Doral]] in his suicide bomber role aboard ''[[Galactica]]''. (Credit: Sci-Fi Channel)]]
A copy of Doral also turns up on ''Galactica'' as a suicide bomber ([[Litmus]]), using explosives he steals from a small-arms locker to create a primitive bomb he detonates in a corridor of the ship after being challenged by [[William Adama]].

At the time of the explosion, [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] suggests that Doral's intended target was [[Gaius Baltar]]. There is little direct evidence to back-up Starbuck's claim. Sergeant [[Hadrian]]'s investigation into the matter establishes that the small arms locker used by Doral is located relatively close to the flight pod (where Doral would have come aboard). Therefore, the fact that the locker and Baltar's lab resided on the same deck may have been coincidental.

Doral appears to spend some time wandering through the ship before detonating his bomb, which suggests he may have been looking for a target of opportunity, such as a command staff member or sensitive area such as [[CIC]].

== Caprican Overseer Copy ==
[[Image:Bsg-doral.jpg|thumb|Doral in his overseer role. (credit: Sci-Fi Channel)]]
On Caprica, Number Five performs the role of a Cylon overseer, working with [[Number Six]] to ensure their experiment involving the stranded [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii]] either reaches its desired conclusion, or is suitably terminated ([[Litmus]], [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]). He wears a red suit, more ulitarian than that of his PR executive counterpart.

In this, Five shows a harder attitude towards humans than Six. When she expresses regret that the destruction of humanity was necessary in order for the Cylons to achieve their ends, he is not so forgiving:

*Six: "This all makes me so sad."
*Five: (matter-of-fact) "They would have destroyed themselves anyway. They deserve what they got."
*Six: "We're the children of humanity. That makes them our parents in a sense."
*Five: "True - but parents have to die. It's the only way children come into their own."

([[Bastille Day]])

Later, however, when Six is disdainful of Valerii's apparent feelings for Agathon when the Caprican experiment goes awry, Five is more sympathetic, wondering what it must be like to be driven by passion that marks Agathon's action: "Even in his anguish he seemed....so alive" ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

==Other Copies==

In "[[Final Cut]]," a Number Five is one of the Cylons that watches [[D'anna Biers]]' broadcast. He comments that the life of Sharon and Helo's hybrid child must be protected at all costs.

Several copies of Number Five are seen on Cylon-occupied Caprica throughout "[[Downloaded]]", the episode where it was revealed that he is the fifth in the sequence of twelve Cylon models. A Five is one of the four 'rebirth nurses' that welcome first [[Caprica-Six]] and later [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]] back to life after their respective downloads into new bodies. Another copy is serving coffee at the cafe which is bombed by [[Samuel Anders]]' resistance group, while yet another was part of the leading group during the invasion of [[New Caprica]] during "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]". ''(This one, clearly a supporter of Caprica-Six and Galactica-Sharon, seems almost out of place, given the model's previous militancy.)''

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Number Five]]
[[Category:Characters|Number Five]]
[[Category:Cylons|Number Five]]
[[Category:RDM|Number Five]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Doral, Aaron]]

[[es:Número Cinco]]

Number Five

2006-03-23T03:47:36Z

Ragestorm:

{{Character Data|
|photo=[[Image:Doral.PNG|200px]]
|age=
|colony= One copy claimed to be from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname=
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role=Cylon Infiltrator
|rank=
|actor=[[Matthew Bennett]]
|cylon=Y
|name=Aaron Doral
}}

Cylon model '''Number Five''', known to the humans as '''Aaron Doral''', appears to be a man in his mid-thirties. He was initially encountered aboard [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'', where he was operating as a public relations executive. Later he was active both within the fleeing Colonial fleet and on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. He seems designed to network, almost to the point of being the sleazy used-car salesman type, but with a sadistic, violent side.

But Doral is a [[Cylon agent]] in reality. The Doral model's purpose is to attempt to sow the seeds of discontent or confusion, particularly during crucial life-threatening situations. Doral models endeavor to undermine authority that threatens his objectives. Doral models are more covert, assuming an ordinary "everyman" appearance that's blended in what may seem to be insignificant behind-the-scenes issues (such as converting ''Galactica'' into a museum). Fives are among the most militant, fanatic and consistent to the Cylon objectives (only the Threes match them), whether they are dispassionately discussing the fate of humanity with his comrades or attempting to kill or maim Colonials in a suicide bomb attack ([[Litmus]]).

__TOC__
== PR Executive Copy ==

Doral appears to be exactly what he claims when viewers first see him in the [[Mini-Series]]: a PR executive. He coordinates the ceremony surrounding ''Galactica's'' decommissioning and transfer to the civilian authorities represented by Secretary of Education [[Laura Roslin]]. During the lead-up to the ceremony, he mocks the Galactica as antiquated and advocates automated defense systems (which would be more vulnerable to Cylon interference).

In the role of PR executive, Doral is efficient, polite and able to carry out his work without ruffling the feathers of those around him, while at the same time marshalling and managing the media. He usually wears an emerald suit and tie.

Following Gaius Baltar's arrival on ''Galactica'', Doral becomes the fall-guy Baltar needs to divert any suspicions he feels may otherwise be directed at him following the Cylon incursion into the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. In this, he is partially steered by [[Number Six]] - although the selection of Doral as his fall-guy appears to be Baltar's own choice by educated guess ([[Mini-Series]]).

Arrested and thrown into the brig, Doral loudly proclaims his innocence of all charges, citing his background and upbringing: that he was born in [[Oasis]], a hamlet near [[Caprica City]], and grew up on the south side of Caprica City itself before going to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]], where he studied public relations at the Kobol Colleges ([[Mini-Series]]).

Later, after being left at the [[Ragnar Anchorage]] space station, Doral exhibits all of the symptoms initially shown by the Cylon agent [[Leoben Conoy]], confirming the fact that he is a Cylon agent and that, however "coincidentally," Baltar selected the "right" man.

Given his protestations of innocence, and the palpable level of fear he demonstrates within the brig, it is possible that this Doral copy is a "sleeper" Cylon agent. Like [[Sharon Valerii|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]], this Doral may have been programmed to think he genuinely ''is'' human, until the radiation around Ragnar affects his [[Silica Pathways|silica pathways]], causing his Cylon identity to come to the fore. He is rescued and debriefed by a group of his fellow Cylon agents, including another Number Five.

== Suicide Bomber Copy ==
[[Image:Litmus_Doral.jpg|thumb|left|300px|[[Aaron Doral]] in his suicide bomber role aboard ''[[Galactica]]''. (Credit: Sci-Fi Channel)]]
A copy of Doral also turns up on ''Galactica'' as a suicide bomber ([[Litmus]]), using explosives he steals from a small-arms locker to create a primitive bomb he detonates in a corridor of the ship after being challenged by [[William Adama]].

At the time of the explosion, [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] suggests that Doral's intended target was [[Gaius Baltar]]. There is little direct evidence to back-up Starbuck's claim. Sergeant [[Hadrian]]'s investigation into the matter establishes that the small arms locker used by Doral is located relatively close to the flight pod (where Doral would have come aboard). Therefore, the fact that the locker and Baltar's lab resided on the same deck may have been coincidental.

Doral appears to spend some time wandering through the ship before detonating his bomb, which suggests he may have been looking for a target of opportunity, such as a command staff member or sensitive area such as [[CIC]].

== Caprican Overseer Copy ==
[[Image:Bsg-doral.jpg|thumb|Doral in his overseer role. (credit: Sci-Fi Channel)]]
On Caprica, Number Five performs the role of a Cylon overseer, working with [[Number Six]] to ensure their experiment involving the stranded [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii]] either reaches its desired conclusion, or is suitably terminated ([[Litmus]], [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]). He wears a red suit, more ulitarian than that of his PR executive counterpart.

In this, Five shows a harder attitude towards humans than Six. When she expresses regret that the destruction of humanity was necessary in order for the Cylons to achieve their ends, he is not so forgiving:

*Six: "This all makes me so sad."
*Five: (matter-of-fact) "They would have destroyed themselves anyway. They deserve what they got."
*Six: "We're the children of humanity. That makes them our parents in a sense."
*Five: "True - but parents have to die. It's the only way children come into their own."

([[Bastille Day]])

Later, however, when Six is disdainful of Valerii's apparent feelings for Agathon when the Caprican experiment goes awry, Five is more sympathetic, wondering what it must be like to be driven by passion that marks Agathon's action: "Even in his anguish he seemed....so alive" ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

==Other Copies==

In "[[Final Cut]]," a Number Five is one of the Cylons that watches [[D'anna Biers]]' broadcast. He comments that the life of Sharon and Helo's hybrid child must be protected at all costs.

Several copies of Number Five are seen on Cylon-occupied Caprica throughout "[[Downloaded]]", the episode where it was revealed that he is the fifth in the sequence of twelve Cylon models. A Five is one of the four 'rebirth nurses' that welcome first [[Caprica-Six]] and later [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica''-Sharon]] back to life after their respective downloads into new bodies. Another copy is serving coffee at the cafe which is bombed by [[Samuel Anders]]' resistance group, while yet another was part of the leading group during the invasion of [[New Caprica]] during "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]".

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Number Five]]
[[Category:Characters|Number Five]]
[[Category:Cylons|Number Five]]
[[Category:RDM|Number Five]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Doral, Aaron]]

[[es:Número Cinco]]

User talk:Bitter one13

2006-03-23T01:03:34Z

Ragestorm: Cavil

{{welcome|Bitter one13}} --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 18:18, 22 March 2006 (CST)

== Cavil ==

Err... you seem to have replaced the Caprica Copy section of the Cavil article with exactly the same text as appears in in the Fleet copy. What's your reasoning?

== Cavil ==

Err... you seem to have replaced the Caprica Copy section of the Cavil article with exactly the same text as appears in in the Fleet copy. What's your reasoning? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:03, 22 March 2006 (CST)

User talk:Bitter one13

Ragestorm: /* Armistice Station Copy */

Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

2006-03-20T19:29:01Z

Ragestorm:

We should add some more specific examples of what the hallucinations have done. A picture of Internal-Baltar with Six would also be good.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:48, 14 March 2006 (EST)

Aside from marking the page as primarily speculative, I agree this page should stay. This is one of the things that people immediately notice when watching this series, and therefore deserves a place here. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 01:02, 20 March 2006 (CST)

== "Most likely" ==

The article suggests that Six is "most likely" an actual, downloaded personality on a chip in his head. I disagree with this, in part because RDM himself has stated otherwise in his podcasts, but also because I think they've been very careful, for the most part, to leave the question balanced. Gaius Baltar is a genius. If Internal-Six is an hallucination, then he's officially a mad genius, but he's a genius, nonetheless. Almost all of his insights into Cylon motives, actions, and character can be explained simply by his being a genius with multiple personality disorder.

And example, from the miniseries: Six points out the device (later revealed to be a kind of transponder) on the underside of the DRADIS console. Baltar (like Gaeta, who admitted having seen it) has undoubtedly seen this device out of the corner of his eye the whole time he's been in CIC, and it is pretty obviously out of place with the rest of the ship's tech. A "normal" person would either ignore it (as Gaeta did, thinking it was part of the transformation of the ship into a museum) or start speculating silently to themselves what it might be and how it got there. The difference is that Baltar now has a dissociative personality that closely resembles his Cylon lover to talk these things through. Everything he knows or speculates that's related to the Cylons now comes from this split personality, because he's desperately trying to evade his own complicity.

In short, it's just as likely (if not more) that Baltar diagnosed himself correctly from the beginning. He's basically gone mad. And since he's not being treated, he will undoubtedly get worse before he gets better.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 14:41, 14 March 2006 (CST)
:Clarified.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:19, 14 March 2006 (EST)

:I think this page is redundant and should be removed.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:56, 14 March 2006 (CST)
::Why? It discusses both Internal-Six and Internal-Baltar, who constitute a single phenomenon or two closely related phenomena, so it doesn't belong under either Number Six or Gaius Baltar. All the information from the Internal-Six section of the Six article has been removed and put here. --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:26, 14 March (EST)
:::I disagree with Merv that it's redundant, but I do think a lot of it is speculative. We've been tightening the standards on speculation in episode articles, but I'm not certain what the standard is outside them.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 15:12, 14 March 2006 (CST)
::::Since little concrete is known about the hallucinations the page about them is of course full of speculation, but they're too important not to have a page. The changes in prevailing theories as new evidence airs is noted. I agree that episode articles should not be speculative. Also, most of this content was already on this site, it has merely been moved to this more appropriate page.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:46, 14 March 2006 (EST)
:::::A fair point, and I'm not even sure I would have noticed the speculative aspects as worthy of mention until yesterday, when the policy for "Questions" in episode articles shifted. Now, tho', I'm sensitive to the question of which articles should be strictly encyclopedic and which can and should be more speculative. I'm not saying I'm certain this article should be heavily edited to strip out speculation. I'm saying I'm not certain either way.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 15:28, 14 March 2006 (CST)
::::::It sounds like Uncle Mikey might be ripe for [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|recruitment]]. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:41, 14 March 2006 (CST)
:::::::Thou shalt not make a machine mind in the image of a human mind. Oh, wait, that's the '''Butlerian''' Jihad... :-D --[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 09:44, 15 March 2006 (CST)

Nonetheless, there are only two instances of this. Further, Baltar was definately a hallucination by Caprica-Six, clean and simple. Meanwhile, we still don't know what virtual Six is, but that goes on her own page.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 06:43, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:How so? Is it just a coincidence that she has an inner Baltar and he has an inner Six? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 06:06, 17 March 2006 (CST)
:Further, and this is my biggest arguement against this (practicality): most of the information here is actually cut and pasted from other arguements. The entire last paragraph is just taken from the virtual Six article.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 06:44, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::I don't necessarily see that as an argument to eliminate this article. Having a single article that consolidates information about a particular topic is not a bad thing, and this topic is certainly one of wide interest.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 09:44, 15 March 2006 (CST)

::Mikey you've only got two "hallucinations". It is hard to consolidate ''two'' things. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:38, 15 March 2006 (CST)

This article is useful, and is not redundant in the least. It is speaking of a particular occurence of a character, which plays an important role and appears to be separate from all other instances of Number Six. It is silly to say that it is mere coincidence that both Baltar and Six are having hallucinations of each other, so it is a topic that should have a page listing information on each sighting of the hallucinations. After all, we have articles about marines who only have their names mentioned...considering the importance of virtual Six and virtual Baltar in influencing events, I think they more than qualify in importance in having their own article. As for the speculation, I would argue that an article about something that is as confusing as this will have a fair amount of speculation, until later episodes clear things up (if they ever do). I see nothing wrong with paragraphs beginning, "Thus far, it appears..." --[[User:Ravriem|Ravriem]] 19:48, 17 March 2006 (CST)
: I am seeing no problems with this page. It works! --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 21:10, 19 March 2006 (CST)

This page is extremely important. It is the only category in which Internal Six and Baltar (one of which is extremely important to the entire story) and all the hallucinations brought by six can fit. They don't fit anywhere else and to delete the page is to simply through these two and their "special effects" away. They are the reason behind everything that is going on. Face it, they are basically gods in the show, shaping the decisions of both sides. I wouldn't be surprise if they did indeed turn up being a part of the Cylon God. My point is, it is important to differentiate them from normal Baltar or any Six, they are not Cylons or humans, they are manipulative Hallucinations that have shaped things in their image. Arguing that they are only two is unfair, hallucinations refers to the entire set of hallucinations, the whole topic of mental six and mental baltar and basically the whole Six-Baltar story line. Its even more important to the story than one of the main characters like Thrace. -- [[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20 March

No. In the podcasts RDM stated that the Baltar hallucination was just a hallucination, while they have been consistently ambiguous on ChipSix. Meanwhile, you even ''used'' the phrase "delete the thread"--->this is not a ''forum''. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 23:25, 19 March 2006 (CST)

:That was a mistake. No point in making attacks on a simple error, they don't really help. And RDM did not say Batlar was "just a hallucination", he said he was a hallucination, but then we already knew that, both are, by definition, hallucinations, whether aided by a foreign device or not. You interpreted to mean that baltar six was absolutley nothing more than madness. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19 March 2006
::In this one The Merovingian, you are out numbered. There are more people here and '''you''' are the only one who thinks this should be deleted. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 12:45, 20 March 2006 (CST)

If we have such a problem with this, let me pose a solution: virtual-Six and virtual-Baltar aren't the only hallucinations, technically. They're just the only hallucinations that talk back. Baltar also hallucinated that Six brought him to the Opera House on Kobol. Maybe this should be a category, not an article, and Six, Baltar, and the Opera House couls have their own articles. Also, if more hallucinations are introduced, it would be pretty silly to have deleted this only to have to put it back. [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 13:29, 20 March 2006 (CST)

User talk:Noneofyourbusiness

2006-03-20T19:23:30Z

Ragestorm: Six's outfit

== Welcome to Battlestar Wiki! ==

Welcome to the Wiki, Noneofyourbusiness. Feel free to tell us about yourself on [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|your user page]]. Before you get started on other edits, please read the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions]], which details the policies we use in editing pages (this differs from many other wikis in consistent use of phrasing, abbreviations, format, and the like).

Also, if you have any questions or suggestions you wish to offer, please feel free to do so either on your user talk page, the [[Battlestar Wiki:Wikipedian Quorum|Wikipedian Quorum]] or [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Administrators' noticeboard]]. Remember to sign your posts on any talk pages using four tildes (~~~~)! --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:54, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Thanks! ==
Thanks for the heads up! I didn't recognize the character name, so I was afraid there might be some Lay Down Your Burdens II spoiler stuff. As it turns out it's just a minor character. There IS a Sylverviper (or similar) on the scifi.com boards, but we're not related. I do have a Steelviper account there too, but all of 3-5 posts. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:51, 9 March 2006 (CST)

== Six's outfit ==

almost all my family work in the NYC Garment Industry, so I'm an unofficial "expert." I assume you moved the virtual Six to the [[Cylon-Related Hallucinations]] article?

Number Six

2006-03-20T14:47:02Z

Ragestorm: /* Armistice Station Copy */

{{Character Data|
|photo=[[Image:Number Six promo.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Cylon Infiltrator, Overseer
|rank=
|actor= [[Tricia Helfer]]
|cylon= y
|name= Shelly Godfrey, Gina
}}

"'''Number Six'''" is a stunning blonde who plays several key roles in the [[Cylon]] military. She is the first [[Cylon agent]] that viewers witness in the reimagined ''Battlestar Galactica'' saga.

== Armistice Station Copy ==
[[Image:SixArmstation2 Mini.JPG|thumb|left|Number Six on the Armistice Station ([[Mini-Series]]).]]
Number Six is a portent of doom for the peoples of the [[Twelve Colonies]]; she arrives on [[Armistice Station]] shortly before it is destroyed in what are the opening shots of the [[Cylon attack]] in the [[Mini-Series]]. Dressed in a long-sleeved red blouse and matching knee-length skirt, she is the first and last "diplomat" ever sent to the station by the Cylons since its construction. She greets the Colonial officer present with the question "Are you alive?" When he answers that he is alive, she tells him to prove it - by making out with her. After he realizes that Armistice is under attack, she smiles and forces another kiss on him shortly before they are both destroyed.

Later, three Sixes in the same outfit are among the group of Cylons that rescue and debrief [[Number Five|Aaron Doral]], following his stranding on [[Ragnar Anchorage]] by the suspicious Colonials.

== Caprica-Six ==

The copy of Number Six that seduced Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] into unwittingly betraying the Twelve Colonies by giving her access to the Colonial defense mainframe.

''For more, see the article, "[[Caprica-Six]]."''

== Baltar's Internal Six ==
[[image:Tigh_Me_Up_Tigh_Me_Down-Baltar_Six.jpg|thumb|Number Six and [[Gaius Baltar]] in his lab aboard ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''.]]
Fleeing Caprica City and then the planet itself, Baltar is shocked to discover that the woman he had a relationship with on Caprica lives on - inside his head.

At first he tries to dismiss her presence as a manifestation of his own guilt over what has happened to his people, and his role in it. However, Six suggests that she is in fact the result of a chip inside his head. However, while some of her actions - such as terrifying Baltar into constructing a genuine [[Cylon detector]] ([[Bastille Day]]) - very much suggest she is a part of his own psyche, this is countered by her underlying actions and deeds, all of which represent a furtherance of those aims and goals she expressed as a corporeal entity, giving added weight to the idea that she is most likely a personality download contained within a chip in Baltar's head. Some of these are characteristics never witnessed by Baltar himself - such as her jealous reaction to [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]]'s visit with Baltar in his lab ([[Flesh and Bone]]), which closely mirrors the jealousy she shows towards the Valerii copy on Caprica ("[[Litmus]]", "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]").

Certainly, this seems to be the view Baltar himself comes to hold, as he relies more and more on her for guidance and insight into Cylon ways - so much so that she deliberately suggests that her presence within him is something of which other Cylons have no knowledge. However, in her relentless drive to get Baltar to fully accept the Cylon concept of God, it would appear that not only are other Cylons in the fleet aware of her "existence", they are in communication with her: hence the arrival of "Shelly Godfrey" onboard ''[[Galactica]]'' with her accusations of treachery at the precise time Six ceases to communicate with Baltar.

When Baltar begins to deny Six's actual existence, she turns the tables by changing her appearance and telling him that he was, indeed, "crazy" ([[Home, Part II]]). Baltar asks Dr. [[Cottle]] to perform a brain scan to check for anything unusual. "Nothing, nothing, more nothing" is the gruff diagnosis from Cottle. However, later in the same episode Baltar realizes that the Six he sees could could not possibly be a hallucination caused by him going "crazy", because she knows things (such as that [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica-Sharon Valerii]] was pregnant) that his subconscious mind has no way of knowing. When confronted with this, Six agrees that she is not a product of Baltar's mind, although scans show no chip in his brain. When Baltar asks her what she really was, Six only replies that "I'm an angel of God sent here to protect you". While Baltar may not have a conventionally visible chip in his head, it could be organically-based (like the Cylon agents) and indistinguishable from other tissues in his brain or central nervous system. There is a remote chance that Baltar could be a Cylon agent himself (see the [[Cylon agent speculation]] article for arguments for and against Baltar as a Cylon agent).

In the episode "[[Downloaded]]" it is revealed that the vision of Number Six that Baltar sees everywhere is definately not the same Number Six consciousness as the one he had a relationship with back on Caprica: [[Caprica-Six]]'s consciousness downloaded into a new body, and for nine months continued to live on Cylon-occupied Caprica. Within a few seconds, it it clear that "Caprica's" personality is completely different from the one in Baltar's head. This adds a further level of complexity to who exactly Baltar sees all the time: would Caprica-Six really implant a chip in his head? When she was downloaded into a new body, Caprica-Six actually thought that Baltar was ''dead'', and did not find out he was alive for months. Furthermore, just as Baltar has an inner Six inside his mind, Caprica-Six has an inner Baltar in hers (and just as Baltar's inner Six manipulates him against the humans, Caprica-Six's inner Baltar manipulates her against the Cylons). She may have implanted a chip, containing one of her "sister" consciousnesses, into him as part of a "backup plan" she never thought she'd actually use...or she may really have never implanted a chip inside Baltar. And this is true, why would she also have a chip inside herself of Baltar? The answer remains unknown.

It was hinted that the internal Six had been silent for some time when the Cylons arrived at [[New Caprica]]. She appeared to Baltar as the first [[Raider]]s entered the sky observing that it was finally "judgement day." ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]) Exactly what will happen with this copy now that Caprica-Six has again met Baltar remains to be seen.

== Shelly Godfrey ==
A copy of Number Six that physically appears on board ''Galactica'' to try to discredit Baltar as a traitor, using evidence which was flawed, so that he ended up being more popular than before.
''For more, see the article, "[[Shelly Godfrey]]."''

== Gina ==
A copy of Number Six captured aboard the battlestar [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]] and repeatedly tortured and sexually abused by the crew, before escaping with Baltar's help. <br>
''For more, see the article, "[[Gina]]."''

== Caprican Overseer Copies ==
[[Image:Sixsharonlitmus.jpg|thumb|Number Six beating up Sharon Valerii on Caprica.|thumb]]
On Caprica, Six performs the role of a Cylon overseer, working with [[Aaron Doral]] to ensure their experiment involving the stranded [[Karl Agathon]] and Valerii either reaches its desired conclusion, or is suitably terminated ([[Litmus]], [[Secrets and Lies]]). These copies of Number Six wear a militaristic black outfit, with a black body-suit underneath suited to martial arts.

Following the destruction of a "troop leader" Six (shot by Valerii, in order to enable her to "rescue" Agathon), her "sister" on Caprica demonstrates a certain vindictiveness towards Valerii when giving her a beating that goes far beyond the needs of the experiment ([[Litmus]]), thus revealing she may well be experiencing resentment for being shot (remembering that experiences and knowledge are passed from body to body among the various types of Cylon agents), as well as jealousy at Valerii's chosen role in proceedings.

A further "overseer" Six is present at the Cylon's established base at [[Delphi]], and is briefly seen by [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] when he attempts to gain access to the base in order to steal a ship and get off the planet ([[Colonial Day]]).

Perhaps this same overseer-Six surprised [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] in the [[Delphi Museum]] when she returned to Caprica to retrieve the [[Arrow of Apollo]]. They engaged in an all-out brawl, and just as Six appeared to be winning Starbuck rushed her, knocking both of them off of a ledge. This Number Six fell underneath Starbuck, breaking Kara's fall, and was impaled on building debris, killing her ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).

Another "overseer" Six was present at the "farm" where Starbuck was taken after she was incapacitated by the Cylons. While the Cylon doctor [[Simon]] operated on her, Six was there to relay orders and see that everything was proceeding smoothly. She was definitely the controlling figure of the operation. This copy was later bashed over the head with a fire extinguisher by Kara Thrace as she made her escape ([[The Farm]]).

Yet another overseer, or possibly one of the previously witnessed copies, viewed [[D'anna Biers]]' broadcast in a theatre on Cylon-occupied Caprica in the episode "[[Final Cut]]". She remarked that the resilience displayed by the Colonials was impressive, and seemed overjoyed that Sharon's hybrid baby survived.

== Caprican Troop Leaders ==
At least 3 additional variants of Six have been operational on Caprica, and appear to lead [[Cylon Centurion]] squads and have a subservient role to the "overseer" Six variants. This variant of Six is distinguished by the white raincoat it wears.

One of these variants distracted Helo, enabling him to be captured. In this, she shared the same seductive characteristic as shown by her "sisters" at Armistice station and with Baltar - her first act on "freeing" the captured Agathon is to kiss him. ([[33]])She was subsequently shot by [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Valerii]].

The second acted as an observer to Helo's "escape", and this same variant may have been leading the Centurion troops into the Caprican farm Helo was hiding in ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The third was present at [[Delphi]], taking orders from an "overseer" Six.

=="[[Downloaded]]"==

In this episode, a Number Six in a gold tunic was one of four 'rebirth nurses' who welcomed the reincarnated [[Caprica-Six]], and it was likely the same group who welcomed [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] back to life several months later.

Several other copies of Six were seen on Caprica in a variety of different outfits.

==Notes==
*The name "Number Six" is, according to "[[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion]]" (Titan Books, 2005), written by David Bassom, an indirect tribute to [[Wikipedia:Patrick McGoohan|Patrick McGoohan]]'s cult 1967 television series [[Wikipedia:The Prisoner|The Prisoner]] - a series that addressed topics such as personal freedom and identity, mind control, illusionary experiences and the infiltration of society's supposed guardians (secret agents) by a nefarious force (those behind The Village).

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[es:Número Seis]]

Talk:Maya/Archive 1

2006-03-17T14:41:08Z

Ragestorm:

I find it interesting that Maya would end up assisting Roslin in the elementary school on New Caprica. So interesting in fact that it is unlikely to be coincidence: Roslin managed affairs somehow so that Maya and Hera/Isis would be in a position where she could keep tabs on them. Remember that Maya, so far as we know, has no idea of Hera's origin or significance other than the cover story of her having been the child of an unidentified ''Pegasus'' officer. It is also probable that Admiral Adama aided somehow in this placement of Maya near Roslin. While Baltar was clearly running the show in the year between the election and the fall of New Caprica to the Cylons, it would be a bit naive to assume that Admiral Adama was wholly without any power. Furthermore, Baltar apparently does not know of Hera's continued existence: Roslin and Admiral Adama clearly do. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 16:15, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Roslin was aware of Baltar's involvement with Six prior to the birth of Hera, so it's possible that when Isis was adopted, she kept him out of it intentionally. Also, Adama may not be aware- he wan't in the meeting we saw. Roslin almost certainly formed a friendship with Maya to keep an eye on them and make sure Baltar never guessed the truth. Adama didn't need to pull any strings, manipulate any aides. Why would Baltar care about Laura's assistant teacher? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:30, 16 March 2006 (EST)

:Because Adama knows whose child Hera really is, and has some idea that the Cylons consider her important. Baltar would not consider Maya important (except possibly as a physical diversion, she really is lovely), but as of right now, where Maya goes, so does Hera. Baltar would find that very important. I also have trouble believing that Adama just sat in orbit for a year while everything went to hell in a handbasket: he wasn't willing to subvert the democratic process, but that sure does not mean he was not ready and willing to take precautions and make preparations for the day when the Cylons returned. I think Adama had a contingency plan, and certainly kept his feelers out for important things like Hera and her status. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 20:37, 16 March 2006 (CST)

Don't get me wrong- I understand what you're saying, and I agree that the idea of Adama sitting in orbit for a year is pretty ridiculous. All I'm saying is that Adama wouldn't have needed to pull strings to get Maya to work with Roslin-if anything, Roslin and Adama probably just agreed to keep tabs on her and Isis. The child is simply too valuable to forget about. The only question is, will the Cylons know she lives? [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 10:40, 17 March 2006 (EST)

Talk:Maya/Archive 1

2006-03-17T14:40:18Z

Ragestorm:

Talk:Hera Agathon/Archive 1

2006-03-17T01:07:39Z

Ragestorm:

I removed the 'Cylon agent' label, as Hera is only half-Biocylon and certainly not, at the present time, an agent working for the Cylons.
3/2/2006 21:24 P.M. by Noneofyourbusiness

:That's why, when I did a preliminary write up, I didn't check off "Cylon agent" by putting "y", but left "???" question marks, hoping someone would get to deciding on this eventually.

Frankly, I had the wacky idea that we should consider the Hybrids a third race with their own article, but this didn't meet with much support, and as Hera is the only current Hybrid, it doesn't make a lot of sense just yet. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:10, 2 March 2006 (CST)

Someday, she will grow up to become one of the main characters of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|reimagined series]]. -- [[User:John-1107|John-1107]] 17:19, 5 March 2006 (CST)

::Anyone think we should put a cap of her very-cool debut in the Cylon Baby Commercial? --[[Sauron18|Sauron18]] 5 March 2006

== character name ==

"Isis" is the greek name of an Egyptian goddess. It's interesting that Maya would name her so. It's probably nothing, but since tha writers like to play games with names and callsigns, could it have any significance? Isis was associted with several Greek goddesses by Plutarch and Herodotus. [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 19:31, 16 March 2006 (EST)

Talk:Hera Agathon/Archive 1

2006-03-17T01:07:12Z

Ragestorm: character name