Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Science in the Re-imagined Series/Archive 1

2006-08-10T07:47:33Z

Rafale: /* Speed check */

For an archived earlier discussion thread prior to February 8, 2006, [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Talk:Science_in_the_Re-imagined_Series&oldid=30324 click here.]

==Artificial Gravity==
Be careful not to confuse Naturalistic SF with Hard SF. They have little to do with one another. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:09, 9 December 2005 (EST)
:Of course, in fact, they are quite opposite, but NSF takes a few elements from hard SF, though not in the extreme that hard SF defines itself. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:18, 9 December 2005 (EST)
Another wrinkle in the whole artificial gravity can of worms: The ability to manipulate gravity fields opens the door to many other technologies, too. For example, a rudimentary tractor beam could be constructed by using your artificial gravity field to pull objects toward your ship. The reverse is probably possible -- using it to repel objects and projectiles for a sort of a deflector shield. Since the Colonials have none of these abilities and yet have apparently had artificial gravity for a long time (before the contruction of the Galactica), it stands to reason that whatever means they use to generate gravity is severely limited. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 11:45, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Welcome to the Wiki, Zeratul. I agree; this limits whatever they use to gravity simulators rather than generators, given their power limitations and storyline limits. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:06, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::Thanks for the welcome, Spencerian. Long time reader first time contributor here. :) Another thing to consider is that whatever they use for gravity continues to work even when main power and control is lost, as in [[Valley of Darkness]]. Likely it would have a separate power source and controls as the life support systems do, meaning it's either passive or doesn't require much power to operate.
:::It's difficult to see, but in the miniseries the doomed botanical freighter seems to have domes on both the top and bottom of the ship, which would imply they have the ability to maintain several different gravitational vectors within a ship.
:::Another good reference would be Boomer's raptor in the miniseries, when she powers it down for the approach to Caprica. I think they were strapped in at the time though, so the gravity may or may not have been shut off.
:::I suspect, though, that this is something that will never really be explained but rather remain a plot-driven convenience. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 14:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)

==Sublight vs. FTL==
The fact that Colonial One, an FTL-capable ship, made its way from Caprica to Galactica at Sublight tells us something else - 5.5 hours of engine burn consume less energy than a hyperspace jump to cover the same distance. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:58, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:Not necessarily. Two reasons why--first, FTL might not have been an option: either it was illegal, seen as too dangerous for travel within a system, deemed too uncomfortable for passengers, or pilots simply weren't trained to calculate a jump, any of which are potentially valid given Tigh's comment that it had been 20 years since a jump. Of course, that may raise a question as to why the drive was installed in the first place. (Regulations? Holdover from the first war?) Secondly, it seems unrealistic that it would take more energy to jump that small distance than to burn the fuel because the entire fleet can jump like 230 times in a row ([[33]]) without any refueling problems or the like. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 21:19, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:I think that FTL flight is generally quite disconcerting to passengers, judging from Cally's take on it when we see ''Galactica'' make its first Jump in the Miniseries. So, sublight is preferable in most instances. I cannot determine from any episodes whether the fuel consumption is more or less when going at sublight over FTL. The comfort level is the most likely reason. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:52, 1 January 2006 (EST)

==Nukes==
If the energy density of [[Tylium]] is so much greater than fissile materials and has the added benefit of producing no fallout, and requiring no sophisticated trigger mechanism, why do the Colonials use nuclear warheads on their missiles rather than tylium bombs? Nuclear fallout has desirable side effects against organic targets, which explains Cylon use thereof, but what advantage does it offer human forces?

:(Obviously, in real life it's a question of storytelling:
:"For instance, in the Galactica mini-series, when the Cylons attack the colonists, they attack them with thermonuclear weapons. They don't attack them with lasers and photon torpedoes, and strange things that don't exist.
:"When you see a planet nuked, and you see those mushroom clouds, and hear about the destruction of entire cities by nuclear weapons, that is a much more terrifying and frightening idea than if you're saying fifteen thousand photon torpedoes were launched at Caprica. One is real and one is not." [http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/news/cult/2004/02/20/9599.shtml]
:"There would not be 'photon torpedoes' but instead nuclear missiles, because nukes are real and thus are frightening." [http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/magazine/17GALACTICA.html]
:"We use nukes. And these days, that’s truly scary. You use photon torpedoes and the audience goes 'oh, okay. shrug.'" [http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA513174.html?display=Top+Stories]) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:09, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:Nukes have the desireable side effect of creating an electromagnetic pulse which disrupts all (currently) known forms of electronics. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 02:41, 8 January 2006 (EST)
: And a side note, now that I think of it. Considering the supposed rarity of tylium, Nukes are also much easier to produce and much less of a waste of a valuable resource. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:12, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::You hit the nail on the head, Durandal. If you can, work up what you just said and add it to the article! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:15, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::: Does not really fit in this article, whithout generating a new section for such a point. If anyone has a better idea for placement, I'm all ears. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:25, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:My own thoughts on the subject are A) Tylium is somewhat rare so it is difficult to mass produce nuclear warheads, but more importantly B) Baltar said that detonating a nuclear warhead near Tylium would "render it inert", not create a chain reaction. I think that Tylium must be "reactive/unstable" enough that it's a good fuel source (moreso than just Plutonium), however, it probably has the chemical property that it is very difficult to produce an explosive uncontrollable chain reaction with it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:13, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::That would disagree with the extremely large tylium explosion seen at the end of "The Hand of God". I prefer Durandal's explanation. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:24, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:::In Ricimer's defense, the explosion was caused by the precursor, the refined but unprocessed component that forms the fuel later. Precursor is more unstable or explosive than the fuel. There are chemicals throughout the Periodic Table that release tremendous energies, more so than plutonium. The problem is the process of controlling it. Else, hydrogen would be our fuel of choice for everything: common, cheap, and leaves a benign by-product. For the Colonies, tylium was their answer. I disagree that tylium is rare, although I think it is hard to find; the Fleet's luck in finding one rock of it also implies that a little tylium goes an awfully long way, but mining and processing it is a real bitch. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:40, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Landings & Gravity ==

Unless I am completely mistaken, aside from whatever may be the 'standard' artifical gravity source aboard Galactica, it is explicitly stated that the actual landing pads in the flight pods rely upon magnitism to hold craft in place en route to the hanger.
:"Viper Four-five-zero, skids down, mag-lock secure." (Kelly to Apollo upon touchdown aproximately 22 minutes into the miniseries)
[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 02:56, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:Correct. On the flight deck, magnetism is used to secure landing Vipers. But in the hangar deck and manned areas of the ship, something else is used, since the humans (and many other virtually non-magnetic items in CIC and elsewhere) are kept from floating. It's an unexplained conumdrum that right now is just a writing convenience. If the article appears to be vague in that topic, do modify it. I created and generated much of this article, and sometimes I can get too wordy and the point gets muddled. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:19, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:: I actually wrote this bit in response to note 2, which states it as a possibility as opposed to cannon-fact. I'm not quite sure HOW to rewrite it, unfortunately... [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:23, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Expensive claim... ==

I find the recent expense claim [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|uncitable]] at best. There's absolutely no indication either way that financial expense played into utilizing FTL Jump technology in BSG. Therefore, unless we can get someone to point out where this info came from, I vote for its removal. Also, just because ''Galactica'' didn't perform a jump in 20 years doesn't really mean that it is normal for Colonail ships (military or otherwise) to rely on sublight travel alone. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:15, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:I read it differently - the statement seems to infer expense from the fact that FTL travel is not used frequently, not vice-versa. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:23, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::I think they just didn't do it, because why risk the (albeit very very small) safety concerns of warping through space? (a wrong calculation and we could wind up in the sun", etc.) Remember, they really have FTL drive for two reasons: 1) It's a holdover from the Exodus (''theory'' but not established fact and frankly I don't believe that), 2) they do have a "sphere of influence" beyond the 12 Colonies, not full-fledged other planets, just mining-camp colonies like Troy. So that's why they put in FTL; plus it's good to have instantaneous travel. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:50, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::: It would be logical to assume that, with so many ships "up in the air", as it were, Jumping into another ship or even trade route may be a concern. I don't fully agree with the "holdover from the Exodus" theory either and it seems likely that FTL technology was put into place as a means of instantaneous transportation during wartime. (Imagine jumping out of harms way instead of fleeing from the enemy at sublight speeds; in fact, this is quite similar to ''Farscape'' and the Leviathan's ability to starburst.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:52, 2 February 2006 (EST)

:I think the current reasons are sufficient enough; there doesn't necessarily need to be a separate bullet point about "expense," especially because it is so vague and unexplained. Is it the cost of buying fuel that's expensive? Probably not, based on what we've seen so far in terms of tylium consumption. They seem to jump quite a bit and don't need to refuel very often. (Basically, just in Hand of God, and that's after jumping constantly for weeks. I mean, they could have been distributing Galactica's tylium to the other ships, but if Galactica has ''that'' much, it can't be that exorbitant of a fuel source, particularly so in peacetime when the ships were first loaded.) Is it wear and tear on the ship that costs money to fix? Maybe, but for the fleet to have lasted this long without any ships breaking down undercuts that theory. I mean, how else do you define expense? I'm not missing something here, am I? --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 02:19, 2 February 2006 (EST)

==The Cancer Cure of Laura Roslin==

One possibility we may want to consider is that of the Humano-Cylons being party based on nanotechnology. If the Cylons have nanobots in their blood, it would explain the selective destruction of cancer cells, and the quick repair of normal cells, and how such a small amount could completely cure the disease. Additionally, a Cylon-Human hybrid would have nanobots less likely to reject a normal human's system.

It would also explain the seeming contradiction in the Humano-Cylon's nature -- that they are close enough to human that even an autoposy cannot tell them apart, and yet somehow machine enough to upload their memories and consciousness.

Though this is my personal favorite theory, there's absolutely no canonical basis for it. --[[User:zeratul|zeratul]]

:It seems that the stem cell theory was the "answer" to this, as stated in the article, now with RDM voicing in on the original explanation that was edited away or revised before filming because it was too technical. Further, your theory conflicts with the established point that Cylon and human physiology is practically identical in appearance and function down to the cellular level, implying that nanotechnology would be identifiable medically. This is supported as well since, unless such nanotech is masked to work with human physiology, Roslin's body would have an autoimmune reaction, fighting off the fetal blood like in an Rh factor reaction. Aside from the established effects of the fetal blood used, only Baltar's [[Cylon detector]] can accurately discern Cylon from human. Funny, I just listened today to an article on National Public Radio that says that fetal stem cells "leak" from the placenta of each baby (born or unborn) into the mother's body, which become an "elite" (but small) force of cells that aid in protecting or repairing damage or disease in the mother for years, according to early research. I ''have'' to get that link to this article--it is very ''apropos'' here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:17, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Yes, I agree with you that the stem cells are the official explanation. I'm not sure if I buy it, however, as real-life stem cells can't spontaneously cure something as complex as cancer just by injecting them. Baltar's been wrong before. Yes, yes, genetically engineered Cylons are a possibility (but wouldn't that be easily detectable at the Colonials' current level of technology?). I guess for now we'll have to write it off as a "magical" effect of hybrids... Sigh :)
::If the nanomachines were small enough they wouldn't be visible even under a microscope (haven't seen an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanning_electron_microscope SEM] on the show yet), and could probably be designed to not show up to chemical tests as well -- especially if they were programmed to actively mask themselves. Again, probably not what they'll go with, just a theory I've been kicking around. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 14:43, 8 February 2006 (EST)

With the caveat that I haven't seen the episode yet:why would Roslin's body have an autoimmune reaction when nanotechnology is used? In any case, the stem cell theory doesn't work. If Roslin indeed was at death's door, the damage to the healthy tissue is too great for stem cells to repair that in the necessary time frame. Protein needs to by synthesized, cells need to divide, etc. Plus, while stem cells can theoretically be used to create any organ, they still need the programming, which is not given in an adult body. They can be programmed in vitro, but they won't just form a liver if you inject them into the liver -the hormone gradients that existed during embryogenesis don't exist anymore, likewise the angiogenetic factors aren't around that would cause the cells to be supplied with the necessary nutrients. Although, ironically, the tumor might have spilled enough of those. And even if you get the cells to grow in the right places, you'd have to get them to stop growing as well, otherwise you've just replaced one cancer with another etc. etc... I think the cancer cure is just as much dramatic license as the "cylon and human physiology being identical". Given the silica pathways and the computer connectivity, there are quite obvious differences. I think that RDM did well to cut out the science since it is meaningless to the layperson and would likely have resulted in rolling eyes with people with expertise in the field. It is a contrived plot device, and trying to explain it away is likely to be futile. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 15:18, 8 February 2006 (EST)

As an added point, I consider the issue with fetal cells as repairmen in the mother to be heavily overstated in the article here. The NPR contribution merely lists it as a hypothesis. There is no "appear", and there is several problems with at least the written part of the NPR contribution: It suggests that the fetal cells "could behave" as stem cells. However, there's more cells in a fetus than just stem cells, and in any case, at this stage, the cells aren't totipotent, i.e. capable of making ANYthing anymore, they have already diversified. It takes early embryonic stem cells for totipotency. I am also sceptical as far as these cells remaining "for life" goes: They'd be good candidates as a cancer ''cause'' rather than cure if they do. The other point is, as I tried to explain above, that these cells turn into specific tissue not just as an execution of an internal program, but as a response to external stimuli, such as hormones secreted by other cells in the vicinity. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 15:36, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:True, Oliver, the NPR article is actually educated speculation (hypothesis at best). As someone whose medical/biology experience is that of a layman, I welcome you, both to the wiki, as well as to improve in the scientific explanations on this page. Interesting stuff you noted there. We know, of course, that this is all dramatic license, but for writers to go the extra mile and make an attempt to base the cure on some credible level of scientific theorem on the topic (unlike *cough*Star Trek*cough*some shows I know) is a notable thing. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:31, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::Well, at least StarTrek made SOME good choices about their technobabble: Knowing fully well that any prediction on computer power and storage capacity would likely be outdated even before the end of the series, they invented totally fictious parameters. Likewise with many other things. While this still leaves the opportunity to violate basic laws of physics, at least it prevents the "no way it could work that way" effect. There's a reason people study for science, and a reason scientists specialize: It's such a vast field that it's practically impossible to know one's way around everything. So a writer has the choice between winging it or hiring a huge staff of scientists and engineers who give him some well-founded speculation on how things could possibly be explained. That ain't gonna fly, obviously, so one way or the other of winging it will have to do for most productions. Now of course a writer can pick up the latest newspaper articles he read and implement them, but the problem is that most newspaper articles on scientific issues aren't precisely written by people with a grasp of the field either. What's worse, even most scientists don't really concern themselves with the theoretic bases of a solid standard of evidence. Alas, this is especially true in the medical field, where people who went to med school do a lot of research while, unlike people who studied sciences, they could grab little scientific theory at least implicitly. Or, to point at something that bugs folks like me quite regularly: If an M.D. has one patient who shows strange symptoms or responds to an unusualy therapy, he happily submits a publication that goes by the type "case report". If, say, a molecular biologist in the biomedical field hears of such an incident, he will at first glance attribute it to a combination of factors valid for that patient only and dismiss it as anecdotal until he hears of a significant number of cases showing some specific pattern and statistical relevance. Which is why especially in this field, going by mainstream press publications is like tangoing through a minefield. If you comb the literature with fine enough a comb, you will come across plenty of "miracle" cases. However, hold a magnifying glass of stringent scientific standards of evidence at them and they go up in hot air. (Background: I'm currently on the last lap of a Ph.D. in the cancer research field, working on new diagnostic methods.) --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 19:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::No, it is ridiculous to say that Star Trek handled technobabble well. That's why we call it technobabble. OTHER than that one point: they realized that computer power would increase so exponentionally by the 24th century that they just made up non-real units ("kiloquads", etc). '''Otherwise, it was laughable. Listen to RDM''' when he's talking about how Levar Burton seemed kind of good at spouting it off in season 1, so they just gave ''all of it to him''. Now, to understand my reaction, I actually watch TNG repeats pretty much every other day. Just finished watching the end of "A Matter of Perspective"; yikes. Crazy technobabble (well, the signal bounced off of some mirrors, but it was so powerful, that when reversed it must have acted like a laser beam" etc. etc.)--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:36, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::Please cite where I said that Star Trek handled technobabble well. You will have difficulties doing so. I suggest you stop just slamming everything you don't like and stick to the facts. The simple fact that you don't like a solution doesn't make it "technobabble" per se, nor does taking any odd scientific hypothesis as truth make something good drama. If you get stomach cramps watching TNG, why do you watch it 'every other day'? --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

::::"Well, at least StarTrek made SOME good choices about their technobabble" seems to heavily imply this position. And it's the only thing on.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:18, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:Humanoid Cylon physiology does not contain "nanomachines"; human cells are also machines, if bio-chemical ones. What the Cylons appear to have done is to have artificially developed the genetic code for an artificial organism which is mostly like humans, but has had certain "upgrades" to it's DNA. I've seen nothing to even come close to speculation that they use "nanomachiens"; this verges into Star Trek ''Borg, Seven of Nine-esque'' [[technobabble]], (shudder). And...no, wait...(''shudder''). Sorry, lots of bad memories. Well, It's just needlessly complicated for this show and I don't think they'd stoop to that level. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:42, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Well, the thing is, it's a huge difference whether it's a biochemical machine or not. The human immune system is very efficient in fighting foreign "biochemical machines" in that it can recognize proteins that aren't part of the body. We know that some nonbiological materials such as graphite or teflon can also trigger an immune response, but this can easily be avoided by using different material. In an ideal scenario (not given here), nanorobots could even simply be coated with "self" proteins and be waved through by the immune system. There's a whole lot of literature on nanomedicine prospects at http://www.nanomedicine.com/index.htm including entire books for free, or, for the less ambitious, the FAQ at http://www.foresight.org/Nanomedicine/NanoMedFAQ.html. And frankly, as a molecular biologist, I shudder at "upgrades" to DNA. A system that can give us everything from archaeobacteria to humans has already demonstrated that it is extremely flexible and yet efficient. I have a bit of an impression that "technobabble" is whatever solution one doesn't like ;) --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 19:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::And, as a genetics major, I can tell you that quite a lot can be done with DNA; right now it's like flying a plane in the first decade of the 20th century; not impossible, but very hard. However, that doesn't mean that ''in theory'', such advances are impossible. Given enought time it could be done. '''Further''', you didn't really address the question. You just meandered around spouting off a lot of information on "nanomachines" without really explaining their practicality or applicability to this situation. And "a system already demonstreated this it is extremely flexible and efficient"....er, this isn't a rebutal. You just made a long sentence stating that "yup, that's DNA for ya", but that specific sentence doesn't actually address the issue of nanomchines, genetic engineering, etc. at all. Please get back on topic. We are not fooled by lots of information being thrown at us and can tell when it lacks actual substance. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:41, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::: *sigh* I should have posted when I first read this, but figured everyone else could see what was going on. Apparently not. RiciMerovingian, please calm a moment. I think you jumped to the worst possible conclusion, rather than giving the benefit of the doubt. What I read as having occured is that Oliver misunderstood the statement about "updates to DNA" as meaning that the fundamental nature of DNA had been upgraded. I don't think he was intentionally obfuscating the topic with terminology that might be over a layman's head in order to "win". I think he was just confused.

:::: Anyway, what was actually meant, as ''I'' read it, was that the DNA that makes one human has been altered in Cylons to have certain upgrades, not that they have better DNA (such that it is not, really, DNA), but that their DNA is almost human, except enccoded to be, say, more resiliant to diseases, quicker healing in the case of physical damage and (as an example of an "upgrade" I'd personally skip, if I were them) unable to procreate. '''Anyway''', hopefully now everyone sees where we got off track, we can put unpleasantness behind and backup to where we were still on topic. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:28, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::Day, the problem is that if their genes were in some way "better" as in more efficient etc. this could be easily discerned with 20th century level technology and could only go so far before the organism is not compatible with human organisms anymore as in clearly being recognized as foreign by the immune system and possibly even incompatible for procreation. In any case, it would also mean that physiology is far from identical. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

::::Merovingian, I realize you didn't like what I said, but claiming that my statements lacked substance when in fact, I made specific arguments and referenced them is quite off. I very much addressed the issue: You stated "human cells are also machines", implying that nanomachines would have no significantly different properties, which is plain false. I also explained further up why stem cells are not viable as an explanation. I never actually said that nanomachines are, in fact pointing out that the event was pure dramatic license. I simply rebutted the objections about nanomachines. As for lacking substance, ''as a genetics major, I can tell you that quite a lot can be done with DNA; right now it's like flying a plane in the first decade of the 20th century; not impossible, but very hard'' is devoid of any. It's simply a claim "I know better", without stating what it actually is you think you know nor whether it is actually supported by anyone else. Genetic engineering is no "upgrade of DNA". I suggest you decide what your concrete arguments are and support them and live with the fact that while you may not like the concept of nanomachines, it is far from technobabble. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::So called OliverH: A) No, you just threw around a lot of jargon, but after reading your penultimate entry, I realized you hadn't said anything of actual substance.
:::::B) I will ''elaborate'': When I say "The human cell is also a machine", this in NO WAY implies agreement with "nanomachines", as you state above. Some people (viewers who don't watch scifi or know even basic biology; not us) are stuck on the fact that "Cylons are machines!" and think of them as metal/plastic/silicon, and organic life as "tissue" etc. However, from my bio stuff, when I look at a human cell, I see a vastly complex clock of ATP, glucose, amino acids...an interacting mechanism of molecules of carbon chains, etc. Could not an artificial mechanism functioning along similar principles be created which was self sustaining?
:::::C) At no time did I say genetic engineering was an "upgrade of DNA", layman. I didn't want to spout off on a lot of terminology that would simply be lost in a quick conversation. Putting words in my mouth, you are. Genetic engineering isn't an "upgrade" of "DNA"; ''genomes'', on the other hand, can have new sequences added, etc. (The word "upgrade" implies some semi-magical, Chemical X-style super-charge). What I had in mind with the Cylons was that ''' The DNA sequence itself is just a starting point:''' what about [[Wikipedia:Imprinting_(genetics)|Genomic Imprinting]] in conjunction with [[Wikipedia:DNA_methylation|DNA methylation]], possibly even veering into [[Wikipedia:Epigenetic_inheritance|Epigenetic Inheritance]]? Long story short: DNA in eukaryotes (for example, humans) is coated in a sheath of histone proteins. Changes in these can change gene expression. More importantly, adding a ''methyl'' group to a section of DNA can determine how it is ''expressed''. Different amino acids then interact in different combinations than before. The human genome codes for many times more proteins than there is DNA coding for specific aa's. But using alternative splicing of mRNA, and altering the expression of DNA coding for different combinations of amino acids....things get a lot more interesting. We don't even fully understand how the 'histone code' works very well. That is my point: When I think of the Cylons I think of them using normal DNA, not nanomachines, but using like the English alphabet: there are 26 letters, and using these I can express all sorts of ideas on BattlestarWiki. These same 26 characters can also be used in a book like ''A Brief History of Time'', to create a new Quantum Theory or something; far more complex than the simple messages I might use on AIM or something....'''But using the same basic building blocks''' of Carbon, Nitrogen, Hydrogen, Oxygen. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:35, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::: Merv... *sigh* What's the point of comments like "So called OliverH" and directing "layman" at him? In regards to the former, one could equally assert that you're "so called" Merovingian or that I'm "so called" Day. These are handles, nicknames and pseudonyms we use on the ''internet''. Implying that someone's name here is somehow false seems either (because I know you're not dumb) disingenuous, juvenile or irrelevant, depending on interpretation. The latter of my examples seems only to be of the juvenile sort of comment. It's name calling, basically. And, before you start, don't attempt to say you were being honest as some kind of defense. With words like "layman" it's all a matter of perspective and I think it's clear from the general tone of your post that it was intended as a jab. Now... would the '''both of you''' (OliverH, included) calm down and not ''aim'' your posts at each other as if they were some kind of ballistae or something? It ''is'' possible to disagree with someone and not call them names. I have done it before. ''Even'' on the internet. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:31, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::::Sorry about that; I was in full-on Monty Python mode (French Castle: "So-called Arthur-King!", etc. etc. Yes they're all made up screenames; bit of (poor) internet humor I never get over). As for "layman", yes, even I thought that was a little too over the top, I must admit; just that he derided my ability to understand any of this, so I then responded by posting links to all of the things I was talking about in detail, etc. Unlike "Frackface" or something, "layman" implies levels of relatives knowledgibility, etc. Probably shouldn't have used that, sorry. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:49, 9 February 2006 (EST)

Ok, I'll try to simply restate the points since they seem to have been misunderstood and misrepresented consistently.
*I have no opinion as to how anything DOES work in this part of the story, mainly because I think that there is no explanation for it other than dramatic license -no matter what RDM says. He studied political sciences, his knowledge of natural science is -as many comments show- quite limited.
*Nanomachines aren't technobabble. They are a means to an end that is being heavily pursued by researchers as we write these pages. As the books I linked above show, in parallel to manufacturing obstacles including logistics being solved, people are anticipating possible medical uses and strategies to overcome obstacles in the achieving of the actual effect. They are pure, honest-to-god hard science-fiction, and only in that as of now, our clean room nanotechnology is just in development.
*Stem cells have a big advantage: They can do anything a regular cell can do. Stem cells also have a big disadvantage: They can do anything a regular cell can do. From that spectrum of possibilities arrives the problem of regulation. And regulation is a pain. The more your tool can do, the more you have your work cut out for you that it does specifically what you want it to do and not something else. Especially in the body, where a whole lot of other signals that the cell is equipped to listen to because it ''is'' a cell, it would be next to impossible to have the cells follow a specific course of action. Nanomachines on the other hand are a)specialists and b)oblivious to the signalling by hormones or other subtance gradients unless specifically designed to respond to them.
*Merovingians comments regarding using DNA like the english alphabet have a couple of problems: As Merovingian states, the english alphabet has 26 letters. The DNA alphabet has four. It's not an issue of the alphabet alone, however, but also of word size. The word size in the English language is variable, meaning a whole lot of different words can be constructed. The DNA word size is fixed at three. This limits the "meaning" to a very limited and defined set of possibilities. Now, of course we could draw up an alternative way of using the same concept, with more letters, or different word sizes. However, the consequence would be that whatever is the outcome of this is less related to us than every single lifeform we know of, from other primates to the "lowliest" bacteria. We could categorically rule out any conception of children, since the sets of genomes would require totally distinct "reading systems". The only viable alternative would be to reduce redundancy, the way amino acids have been added, or added frequency, over the course of evolution. However, redundancy also is a safeguard against effects of mutations -if the mutation doesn't make a difference, then there can be no harmful effect. So if we reduce redundancy, we increase susceptibility to mutations.
*All the mechanisms listed by Merovingian above exist, of course. But they exist as part of a complex network of regulatory mechanisms that makes it practically impossible to say "Well, if we throw this switch, then this, and only this will happen". The effect is illustrated by the fact that most of these mechanisms can also be involved in [[Wikipedia:Carcinogenesis|Carcinogenesis]]. So repercussions of fiddling here are not limited, but can in fact be quite major. This leads to the key problem I am trying to address:
While we can hypothesize all we want about possible mechanisms for the cancer cure to work, or about how cylons work, the fact is that our choices are chiefly between which parts of what we see is plausible. If we take a lot of what we see about the Cylons as actually working, we'd have to reject the notions that they cannot be told apart from humans and that they are capable of procreation with humans. If we take the latter for granted, than the ways in which their physiology and their genes can differ from ours is severely limited. We are what we are and who we are because of a finely tuned system. Even minor changes to that system are likely to have major effects. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 06:21, 11 February 2006 (EST)

==Genetics==
1.) My impression was that baltar was sketching schematic representations of human and cylon antigens, not individual nitrogenous bases (which wouldn't really be relevant for the treatment he was proposing)

2.) Are you certain the hexagonal image is of uracil, and not another [[Wikipedia:pyrimidine|pyrimidine]] such as [[Wikipedia:cytosine|cytosine]] or [[Wikipedia:thymine|thymine]]? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:20, 2 February 2006 (EST)

:2) Indeed. I've been going over my Human Molecular Genetics notes, and this is the only possibility. The difficulty you may have encountered is that Baltar is holding it upside down. Actually, I made a drawing of what we see "on screen" in the commercial (unfortunately, BSGwiki doesn't seem to want to upload bmp images; sorry).

:There is a very long line coming of of a Nitrogen; this represent an R-linkage (that is, where the base connects to deoxyribose). ''Traditionally'', (by Earth international convention) the R-linkage making Nitrogen is placed at the bottom of the diagram; plus, Baltar drew it backwords, but that's just viewing it from a different angle and changes none of the linkages. This is where we see "NH" on the bottom of that pic of Uracil I have; the H gets dropped and the N forms the R-linkage. I spent a long time trying to figure out which one it was before I determined that it is definately Uracil; none of the others. You can see this more clearly in the page on [[Wikipedia:Nucleotide|Nucleotide]]: the one we see has no NH2 subgroup linked to a carbon in the ring, so it's definately not Cytosine (Cytosine has 3 N's, Uracil and Thymine, only 2). It can't be thymine, because it has no H3C subgroup branching off of the ring. It actually looks exactly like the image of Uracil on the Nucleotide article.

:1)****My entire point, Farago, is that Ron D. Moore stated in his podcast that ORIGINALLY, Baltar *was* making all of thse comparisons of DNA, stem cells, etc. and stating how Cylon **DNA** is different. However, he got in a panic, because as we all know he is nervous to use Technobabble (often, this is a very good thing) but this time he overreacted; now all of the messageboards are filled with complaints of "This wasn't explained well enough; he just said it's "blood was special" and drew two overlapping squares; this doesn't explain anything". '''In scenes that they deleted, Baltar goes into detail explaining what's different about it, comparing DNA structure, etc. ''' Hopefully, we will see it in the DVD when these scenes are released. ''' However, (as sometimes happens) footage from deleted scenes was used to make the commercial for the episode, and because I taped it off of tv (as opposed to downloading it) I was able to pause it and look at this.''' Really, they just cut a *LOT* of stuff out; it's not *JUST* "antigents"; the script for this scene was butchered in the editing room, and the explanation is actually a lot more complex than just "it's blood has no antigens"; Antigens for ''what''? Antigens are things that trigger an immune response; in that sense, '''this isn't that much different from the O-[[Wikipedia:blood type|blood type]]. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:16, 2 February 2006 (EST)

::I'm [[Talk:Epiphanies#Cancer Therapy|well aware]] of that. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:24, 2 February 2006 (EST)

== Speed check ==

In the section "Distances and Speeds..." two figures fro the speed of light are quoted in as many paragraphs. The first is correct: 3x10^8 meters/second. The second figure is 54x10^10 meters/second. Is this the speed of light in miles/second instead? (as the answer is given in miles/hour)

As a postscript regarding why the ''Galactica'' hasn't jumped in 20 years, the battlestar could have been part of a home or system fleet, much like Great Britain had an English Channel Fleet during the Napoleonic Wars. [[User:Sentinel75|Sentinel75]] 23:18, 10 February 2006 (EST)

:Hi, Sentinel. The figures you saw was the calculation of ''distance = speed(time)''. To avoid error, the travel time is converted from hours (5.5) to seconds. The speed of light is converted from miles/sec (186,282) to meters/sec. Once that's done, the result (distance) is in meters. Since ''Battlestar Wiki's'' audience is primarily American, I presented the result converted into miles as well.

:Your idea on ''Galactica's'' need not to jump in 20 years is pretty good as you've reminded me of my ''Hornblower'' readings and historical information. I will add it to the page as an additional bullet. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:16, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:http://www.google.com/search?q=speed+of+light+in+meters%2Fsec Switch the units around and it still doesn't make sense. (m/s)/s = m/s ? '''no''' That formula is gibberish. I'll fix it. The original mistake happens to give the right answer because 5.4*10^11 is the result of the prior calculation in meters. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 23:37, 21 February 2006 (EST)

:Hi All,
There seems to be a ''plot hole'' in the miniseries, or you need to recalculate your ETA: Colonial Heavy 798 went to Galactica alone, but it was supposed to be escorted back by Apollo in an old Mark II Viper. So while the flight to Galactica could have taken 5.5 hours, at max acceleration, which was made possible by Colonial Heavy 798´s artificial gravity, the flight back would´ve taken much much longer, because Apollo´s Viper isn´t equipped with artificial gravity! (that´s apparent from what starbuck tells the nuggets in "act of contrition").
--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 9:21 08 August 2006 (GMT +1)
:Technically, her comment only implies that there is no artificial gravity in combat. Maybe it's too energy-expensive to use in combat; it would be counteracting about 562g for the miniseries trip, so using a lot of power is not unreasonable. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 04:23, 8 August 2006 (CDT)
::Hmm, that opens the question what the difference between combat and non-combat mode power-consumption in vipers would be. I don´t think that there would be any difference. But I am willing to speculate, that colonial technology may have invented some kind of device which counteracts high acceleration g-force force ONLY when it is aligned with the dorsal angle of the viper, so that it is useless when the fighter yaws, turns, banks and slides.--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 9:55 10 August 2006 (GMT +1)
:::Oh, and there´s another, *very* simple and pragmatic solution: Apollo and his Viper may have simply been "piggy-backing" on Colonial Heavy 798, or even have been in the docking bay and released when those alarming messages started dropping in over the wireless. There´s no reason why Apollo should have been made to spend 5.5 hours or more in a cramped viper cockpit all the time, when it was still officially peacetime. --[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 10:00 10 August 2006 (GMT +1)

== Cylon missiles have contrails in space ==
[[Image:cylon_missile.jpg|thumb|right]]
This is impossible. I think. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 18:27, 13 March 2006 (CST)
:They must have some exhaust stream, but not the puffy contrail visible there. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:14, 13 March 2006 (CST)
::I don't think that any exhaust would be visible because the exhuast is expanding rapidly and in space there is no resistance to that expansion. The density of the exhuast would quickly become so low that it would not be visible. They prolly just thought it would look better, but it bugs me anyway. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 19:34, 13 March 2006 (CST)
:::I agree with you Bp, it bugs me too... In fact the fact that there are still sound effects for things going on in space REALLY BUGS ME!!! (Like when a Cylon Raider flies by) Before the Mini-Series I could have sworn I read that they were going to be faithful to science in that there wouldn't be "sound" in space. Perhaps I was wrong. I would really like to see a science fiction show ditch the sound effects in space. --[[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 20:14, 13 March 2006 (CST)
::::If I remember correctly, RDM in the commentary for the Mini the he was going to have no sound in space but NBC forced him to change. As a compromise, he made it muted. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:18, 13 March 2006 (CST)

==Lagoon nebula==
Loving the image of the milky way labelled with stuff but it wasnt made by anyone here and it links to imageshack so i think we should recreate it ourselves? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:51, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:Since I don't know who owns that graphic, yes, having a reproduction of it (who can copyright a ''galaxy''?) would be really great to have in case the link is lost. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:52, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::([[Wikipedia:SCO Group|SCO]] might try.) That'd be great! It'd be much better to have a for sure creative commons version for display purposes. (Maybe a small thumbnail of it in the article, instead of the link, once it's "ours.") Is Merc on the job? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:05, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:::[[:Image:Locations in BSG galaxy.jpg|This?]] Its not perfect so ill try and find some more exact locations for earth etc, im not an astro physics dude or astronomer lol --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 15:35, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Science in the Re-imagined Series/Archive 1

2006-08-10T07:43:47Z

Rafale: /* Speed check */

For an archived earlier discussion thread prior to February 8, 2006, [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Talk:Science_in_the_Re-imagined_Series&oldid=30324 click here.]

==Artificial Gravity==
Be careful not to confuse Naturalistic SF with Hard SF. They have little to do with one another. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:09, 9 December 2005 (EST)
:Of course, in fact, they are quite opposite, but NSF takes a few elements from hard SF, though not in the extreme that hard SF defines itself. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:18, 9 December 2005 (EST)
Another wrinkle in the whole artificial gravity can of worms: The ability to manipulate gravity fields opens the door to many other technologies, too. For example, a rudimentary tractor beam could be constructed by using your artificial gravity field to pull objects toward your ship. The reverse is probably possible -- using it to repel objects and projectiles for a sort of a deflector shield. Since the Colonials have none of these abilities and yet have apparently had artificial gravity for a long time (before the contruction of the Galactica), it stands to reason that whatever means they use to generate gravity is severely limited. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 11:45, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Welcome to the Wiki, Zeratul. I agree; this limits whatever they use to gravity simulators rather than generators, given their power limitations and storyline limits. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:06, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::Thanks for the welcome, Spencerian. Long time reader first time contributor here. :) Another thing to consider is that whatever they use for gravity continues to work even when main power and control is lost, as in [[Valley of Darkness]]. Likely it would have a separate power source and controls as the life support systems do, meaning it's either passive or doesn't require much power to operate.
:::It's difficult to see, but in the miniseries the doomed botanical freighter seems to have domes on both the top and bottom of the ship, which would imply they have the ability to maintain several different gravitational vectors within a ship.
:::Another good reference would be Boomer's raptor in the miniseries, when she powers it down for the approach to Caprica. I think they were strapped in at the time though, so the gravity may or may not have been shut off.
:::I suspect, though, that this is something that will never really be explained but rather remain a plot-driven convenience. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 14:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)

==Sublight vs. FTL==
The fact that Colonial One, an FTL-capable ship, made its way from Caprica to Galactica at Sublight tells us something else - 5.5 hours of engine burn consume less energy than a hyperspace jump to cover the same distance. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:58, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:Not necessarily. Two reasons why--first, FTL might not have been an option: either it was illegal, seen as too dangerous for travel within a system, deemed too uncomfortable for passengers, or pilots simply weren't trained to calculate a jump, any of which are potentially valid given Tigh's comment that it had been 20 years since a jump. Of course, that may raise a question as to why the drive was installed in the first place. (Regulations? Holdover from the first war?) Secondly, it seems unrealistic that it would take more energy to jump that small distance than to burn the fuel because the entire fleet can jump like 230 times in a row ([[33]]) without any refueling problems or the like. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 21:19, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:I think that FTL flight is generally quite disconcerting to passengers, judging from Cally's take on it when we see ''Galactica'' make its first Jump in the Miniseries. So, sublight is preferable in most instances. I cannot determine from any episodes whether the fuel consumption is more or less when going at sublight over FTL. The comfort level is the most likely reason. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:52, 1 January 2006 (EST)

==Nukes==
If the energy density of [[Tylium]] is so much greater than fissile materials and has the added benefit of producing no fallout, and requiring no sophisticated trigger mechanism, why do the Colonials use nuclear warheads on their missiles rather than tylium bombs? Nuclear fallout has desirable side effects against organic targets, which explains Cylon use thereof, but what advantage does it offer human forces?

:(Obviously, in real life it's a question of storytelling:
:"For instance, in the Galactica mini-series, when the Cylons attack the colonists, they attack them with thermonuclear weapons. They don't attack them with lasers and photon torpedoes, and strange things that don't exist.
:"When you see a planet nuked, and you see those mushroom clouds, and hear about the destruction of entire cities by nuclear weapons, that is a much more terrifying and frightening idea than if you're saying fifteen thousand photon torpedoes were launched at Caprica. One is real and one is not." [http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/news/cult/2004/02/20/9599.shtml]
:"There would not be 'photon torpedoes' but instead nuclear missiles, because nukes are real and thus are frightening." [http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/magazine/17GALACTICA.html]
:"We use nukes. And these days, that’s truly scary. You use photon torpedoes and the audience goes 'oh, okay. shrug.'" [http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA513174.html?display=Top+Stories]) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:09, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:Nukes have the desireable side effect of creating an electromagnetic pulse which disrupts all (currently) known forms of electronics. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 02:41, 8 January 2006 (EST)
: And a side note, now that I think of it. Considering the supposed rarity of tylium, Nukes are also much easier to produce and much less of a waste of a valuable resource. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:12, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::You hit the nail on the head, Durandal. If you can, work up what you just said and add it to the article! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:15, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::: Does not really fit in this article, whithout generating a new section for such a point. If anyone has a better idea for placement, I'm all ears. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:25, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:My own thoughts on the subject are A) Tylium is somewhat rare so it is difficult to mass produce nuclear warheads, but more importantly B) Baltar said that detonating a nuclear warhead near Tylium would "render it inert", not create a chain reaction. I think that Tylium must be "reactive/unstable" enough that it's a good fuel source (moreso than just Plutonium), however, it probably has the chemical property that it is very difficult to produce an explosive uncontrollable chain reaction with it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:13, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::That would disagree with the extremely large tylium explosion seen at the end of "The Hand of God". I prefer Durandal's explanation. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:24, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:::In Ricimer's defense, the explosion was caused by the precursor, the refined but unprocessed component that forms the fuel later. Precursor is more unstable or explosive than the fuel. There are chemicals throughout the Periodic Table that release tremendous energies, more so than plutonium. The problem is the process of controlling it. Else, hydrogen would be our fuel of choice for everything: common, cheap, and leaves a benign by-product. For the Colonies, tylium was their answer. I disagree that tylium is rare, although I think it is hard to find; the Fleet's luck in finding one rock of it also implies that a little tylium goes an awfully long way, but mining and processing it is a real bitch. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:40, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Landings & Gravity ==

Unless I am completely mistaken, aside from whatever may be the 'standard' artifical gravity source aboard Galactica, it is explicitly stated that the actual landing pads in the flight pods rely upon magnitism to hold craft in place en route to the hanger.
:"Viper Four-five-zero, skids down, mag-lock secure." (Kelly to Apollo upon touchdown aproximately 22 minutes into the miniseries)
[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 02:56, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:Correct. On the flight deck, magnetism is used to secure landing Vipers. But in the hangar deck and manned areas of the ship, something else is used, since the humans (and many other virtually non-magnetic items in CIC and elsewhere) are kept from floating. It's an unexplained conumdrum that right now is just a writing convenience. If the article appears to be vague in that topic, do modify it. I created and generated much of this article, and sometimes I can get too wordy and the point gets muddled. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:19, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:: I actually wrote this bit in response to note 2, which states it as a possibility as opposed to cannon-fact. I'm not quite sure HOW to rewrite it, unfortunately... [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:23, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Expensive claim... ==

I find the recent expense claim [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|uncitable]] at best. There's absolutely no indication either way that financial expense played into utilizing FTL Jump technology in BSG. Therefore, unless we can get someone to point out where this info came from, I vote for its removal. Also, just because ''Galactica'' didn't perform a jump in 20 years doesn't really mean that it is normal for Colonail ships (military or otherwise) to rely on sublight travel alone. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:15, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:I read it differently - the statement seems to infer expense from the fact that FTL travel is not used frequently, not vice-versa. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:23, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::I think they just didn't do it, because why risk the (albeit very very small) safety concerns of warping through space? (a wrong calculation and we could wind up in the sun", etc.) Remember, they really have FTL drive for two reasons: 1) It's a holdover from the Exodus (''theory'' but not established fact and frankly I don't believe that), 2) they do have a "sphere of influence" beyond the 12 Colonies, not full-fledged other planets, just mining-camp colonies like Troy. So that's why they put in FTL; plus it's good to have instantaneous travel. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:50, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::: It would be logical to assume that, with so many ships "up in the air", as it were, Jumping into another ship or even trade route may be a concern. I don't fully agree with the "holdover from the Exodus" theory either and it seems likely that FTL technology was put into place as a means of instantaneous transportation during wartime. (Imagine jumping out of harms way instead of fleeing from the enemy at sublight speeds; in fact, this is quite similar to ''Farscape'' and the Leviathan's ability to starburst.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:52, 2 February 2006 (EST)

:I think the current reasons are sufficient enough; there doesn't necessarily need to be a separate bullet point about "expense," especially because it is so vague and unexplained. Is it the cost of buying fuel that's expensive? Probably not, based on what we've seen so far in terms of tylium consumption. They seem to jump quite a bit and don't need to refuel very often. (Basically, just in Hand of God, and that's after jumping constantly for weeks. I mean, they could have been distributing Galactica's tylium to the other ships, but if Galactica has ''that'' much, it can't be that exorbitant of a fuel source, particularly so in peacetime when the ships were first loaded.) Is it wear and tear on the ship that costs money to fix? Maybe, but for the fleet to have lasted this long without any ships breaking down undercuts that theory. I mean, how else do you define expense? I'm not missing something here, am I? --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 02:19, 2 February 2006 (EST)

==The Cancer Cure of Laura Roslin==

One possibility we may want to consider is that of the Humano-Cylons being party based on nanotechnology. If the Cylons have nanobots in their blood, it would explain the selective destruction of cancer cells, and the quick repair of normal cells, and how such a small amount could completely cure the disease. Additionally, a Cylon-Human hybrid would have nanobots less likely to reject a normal human's system.

It would also explain the seeming contradiction in the Humano-Cylon's nature -- that they are close enough to human that even an autoposy cannot tell them apart, and yet somehow machine enough to upload their memories and consciousness.

Though this is my personal favorite theory, there's absolutely no canonical basis for it. --[[User:zeratul|zeratul]]

:It seems that the stem cell theory was the "answer" to this, as stated in the article, now with RDM voicing in on the original explanation that was edited away or revised before filming because it was too technical. Further, your theory conflicts with the established point that Cylon and human physiology is practically identical in appearance and function down to the cellular level, implying that nanotechnology would be identifiable medically. This is supported as well since, unless such nanotech is masked to work with human physiology, Roslin's body would have an autoimmune reaction, fighting off the fetal blood like in an Rh factor reaction. Aside from the established effects of the fetal blood used, only Baltar's [[Cylon detector]] can accurately discern Cylon from human. Funny, I just listened today to an article on National Public Radio that says that fetal stem cells "leak" from the placenta of each baby (born or unborn) into the mother's body, which become an "elite" (but small) force of cells that aid in protecting or repairing damage or disease in the mother for years, according to early research. I ''have'' to get that link to this article--it is very ''apropos'' here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:17, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Yes, I agree with you that the stem cells are the official explanation. I'm not sure if I buy it, however, as real-life stem cells can't spontaneously cure something as complex as cancer just by injecting them. Baltar's been wrong before. Yes, yes, genetically engineered Cylons are a possibility (but wouldn't that be easily detectable at the Colonials' current level of technology?). I guess for now we'll have to write it off as a "magical" effect of hybrids... Sigh :)
::If the nanomachines were small enough they wouldn't be visible even under a microscope (haven't seen an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanning_electron_microscope SEM] on the show yet), and could probably be designed to not show up to chemical tests as well -- especially if they were programmed to actively mask themselves. Again, probably not what they'll go with, just a theory I've been kicking around. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 14:43, 8 February 2006 (EST)

With the caveat that I haven't seen the episode yet:why would Roslin's body have an autoimmune reaction when nanotechnology is used? In any case, the stem cell theory doesn't work. If Roslin indeed was at death's door, the damage to the healthy tissue is too great for stem cells to repair that in the necessary time frame. Protein needs to by synthesized, cells need to divide, etc. Plus, while stem cells can theoretically be used to create any organ, they still need the programming, which is not given in an adult body. They can be programmed in vitro, but they won't just form a liver if you inject them into the liver -the hormone gradients that existed during embryogenesis don't exist anymore, likewise the angiogenetic factors aren't around that would cause the cells to be supplied with the necessary nutrients. Although, ironically, the tumor might have spilled enough of those. And even if you get the cells to grow in the right places, you'd have to get them to stop growing as well, otherwise you've just replaced one cancer with another etc. etc... I think the cancer cure is just as much dramatic license as the "cylon and human physiology being identical". Given the silica pathways and the computer connectivity, there are quite obvious differences. I think that RDM did well to cut out the science since it is meaningless to the layperson and would likely have resulted in rolling eyes with people with expertise in the field. It is a contrived plot device, and trying to explain it away is likely to be futile. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 15:18, 8 February 2006 (EST)

As an added point, I consider the issue with fetal cells as repairmen in the mother to be heavily overstated in the article here. The NPR contribution merely lists it as a hypothesis. There is no "appear", and there is several problems with at least the written part of the NPR contribution: It suggests that the fetal cells "could behave" as stem cells. However, there's more cells in a fetus than just stem cells, and in any case, at this stage, the cells aren't totipotent, i.e. capable of making ANYthing anymore, they have already diversified. It takes early embryonic stem cells for totipotency. I am also sceptical as far as these cells remaining "for life" goes: They'd be good candidates as a cancer ''cause'' rather than cure if they do. The other point is, as I tried to explain above, that these cells turn into specific tissue not just as an execution of an internal program, but as a response to external stimuli, such as hormones secreted by other cells in the vicinity. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 15:36, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:True, Oliver, the NPR article is actually educated speculation (hypothesis at best). As someone whose medical/biology experience is that of a layman, I welcome you, both to the wiki, as well as to improve in the scientific explanations on this page. Interesting stuff you noted there. We know, of course, that this is all dramatic license, but for writers to go the extra mile and make an attempt to base the cure on some credible level of scientific theorem on the topic (unlike *cough*Star Trek*cough*some shows I know) is a notable thing. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:31, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::Well, at least StarTrek made SOME good choices about their technobabble: Knowing fully well that any prediction on computer power and storage capacity would likely be outdated even before the end of the series, they invented totally fictious parameters. Likewise with many other things. While this still leaves the opportunity to violate basic laws of physics, at least it prevents the "no way it could work that way" effect. There's a reason people study for science, and a reason scientists specialize: It's such a vast field that it's practically impossible to know one's way around everything. So a writer has the choice between winging it or hiring a huge staff of scientists and engineers who give him some well-founded speculation on how things could possibly be explained. That ain't gonna fly, obviously, so one way or the other of winging it will have to do for most productions. Now of course a writer can pick up the latest newspaper articles he read and implement them, but the problem is that most newspaper articles on scientific issues aren't precisely written by people with a grasp of the field either. What's worse, even most scientists don't really concern themselves with the theoretic bases of a solid standard of evidence. Alas, this is especially true in the medical field, where people who went to med school do a lot of research while, unlike people who studied sciences, they could grab little scientific theory at least implicitly. Or, to point at something that bugs folks like me quite regularly: If an M.D. has one patient who shows strange symptoms or responds to an unusualy therapy, he happily submits a publication that goes by the type "case report". If, say, a molecular biologist in the biomedical field hears of such an incident, he will at first glance attribute it to a combination of factors valid for that patient only and dismiss it as anecdotal until he hears of a significant number of cases showing some specific pattern and statistical relevance. Which is why especially in this field, going by mainstream press publications is like tangoing through a minefield. If you comb the literature with fine enough a comb, you will come across plenty of "miracle" cases. However, hold a magnifying glass of stringent scientific standards of evidence at them and they go up in hot air. (Background: I'm currently on the last lap of a Ph.D. in the cancer research field, working on new diagnostic methods.) --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 19:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::No, it is ridiculous to say that Star Trek handled technobabble well. That's why we call it technobabble. OTHER than that one point: they realized that computer power would increase so exponentionally by the 24th century that they just made up non-real units ("kiloquads", etc). '''Otherwise, it was laughable. Listen to RDM''' when he's talking about how Levar Burton seemed kind of good at spouting it off in season 1, so they just gave ''all of it to him''. Now, to understand my reaction, I actually watch TNG repeats pretty much every other day. Just finished watching the end of "A Matter of Perspective"; yikes. Crazy technobabble (well, the signal bounced off of some mirrors, but it was so powerful, that when reversed it must have acted like a laser beam" etc. etc.)--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:36, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::Please cite where I said that Star Trek handled technobabble well. You will have difficulties doing so. I suggest you stop just slamming everything you don't like and stick to the facts. The simple fact that you don't like a solution doesn't make it "technobabble" per se, nor does taking any odd scientific hypothesis as truth make something good drama. If you get stomach cramps watching TNG, why do you watch it 'every other day'? --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

::::"Well, at least StarTrek made SOME good choices about their technobabble" seems to heavily imply this position. And it's the only thing on.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:18, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:Humanoid Cylon physiology does not contain "nanomachines"; human cells are also machines, if bio-chemical ones. What the Cylons appear to have done is to have artificially developed the genetic code for an artificial organism which is mostly like humans, but has had certain "upgrades" to it's DNA. I've seen nothing to even come close to speculation that they use "nanomachiens"; this verges into Star Trek ''Borg, Seven of Nine-esque'' [[technobabble]], (shudder). And...no, wait...(''shudder''). Sorry, lots of bad memories. Well, It's just needlessly complicated for this show and I don't think they'd stoop to that level. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:42, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Well, the thing is, it's a huge difference whether it's a biochemical machine or not. The human immune system is very efficient in fighting foreign "biochemical machines" in that it can recognize proteins that aren't part of the body. We know that some nonbiological materials such as graphite or teflon can also trigger an immune response, but this can easily be avoided by using different material. In an ideal scenario (not given here), nanorobots could even simply be coated with "self" proteins and be waved through by the immune system. There's a whole lot of literature on nanomedicine prospects at http://www.nanomedicine.com/index.htm including entire books for free, or, for the less ambitious, the FAQ at http://www.foresight.org/Nanomedicine/NanoMedFAQ.html. And frankly, as a molecular biologist, I shudder at "upgrades" to DNA. A system that can give us everything from archaeobacteria to humans has already demonstrated that it is extremely flexible and yet efficient. I have a bit of an impression that "technobabble" is whatever solution one doesn't like ;) --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 19:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::And, as a genetics major, I can tell you that quite a lot can be done with DNA; right now it's like flying a plane in the first decade of the 20th century; not impossible, but very hard. However, that doesn't mean that ''in theory'', such advances are impossible. Given enought time it could be done. '''Further''', you didn't really address the question. You just meandered around spouting off a lot of information on "nanomachines" without really explaining their practicality or applicability to this situation. And "a system already demonstreated this it is extremely flexible and efficient"....er, this isn't a rebutal. You just made a long sentence stating that "yup, that's DNA for ya", but that specific sentence doesn't actually address the issue of nanomchines, genetic engineering, etc. at all. Please get back on topic. We are not fooled by lots of information being thrown at us and can tell when it lacks actual substance. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:41, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::: *sigh* I should have posted when I first read this, but figured everyone else could see what was going on. Apparently not. RiciMerovingian, please calm a moment. I think you jumped to the worst possible conclusion, rather than giving the benefit of the doubt. What I read as having occured is that Oliver misunderstood the statement about "updates to DNA" as meaning that the fundamental nature of DNA had been upgraded. I don't think he was intentionally obfuscating the topic with terminology that might be over a layman's head in order to "win". I think he was just confused.

:::: Anyway, what was actually meant, as ''I'' read it, was that the DNA that makes one human has been altered in Cylons to have certain upgrades, not that they have better DNA (such that it is not, really, DNA), but that their DNA is almost human, except enccoded to be, say, more resiliant to diseases, quicker healing in the case of physical damage and (as an example of an "upgrade" I'd personally skip, if I were them) unable to procreate. '''Anyway''', hopefully now everyone sees where we got off track, we can put unpleasantness behind and backup to where we were still on topic. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:28, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::Day, the problem is that if their genes were in some way "better" as in more efficient etc. this could be easily discerned with 20th century level technology and could only go so far before the organism is not compatible with human organisms anymore as in clearly being recognized as foreign by the immune system and possibly even incompatible for procreation. In any case, it would also mean that physiology is far from identical. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

::::Merovingian, I realize you didn't like what I said, but claiming that my statements lacked substance when in fact, I made specific arguments and referenced them is quite off. I very much addressed the issue: You stated "human cells are also machines", implying that nanomachines would have no significantly different properties, which is plain false. I also explained further up why stem cells are not viable as an explanation. I never actually said that nanomachines are, in fact pointing out that the event was pure dramatic license. I simply rebutted the objections about nanomachines. As for lacking substance, ''as a genetics major, I can tell you that quite a lot can be done with DNA; right now it's like flying a plane in the first decade of the 20th century; not impossible, but very hard'' is devoid of any. It's simply a claim "I know better", without stating what it actually is you think you know nor whether it is actually supported by anyone else. Genetic engineering is no "upgrade of DNA". I suggest you decide what your concrete arguments are and support them and live with the fact that while you may not like the concept of nanomachines, it is far from technobabble. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::So called OliverH: A) No, you just threw around a lot of jargon, but after reading your penultimate entry, I realized you hadn't said anything of actual substance.
:::::B) I will ''elaborate'': When I say "The human cell is also a machine", this in NO WAY implies agreement with "nanomachines", as you state above. Some people (viewers who don't watch scifi or know even basic biology; not us) are stuck on the fact that "Cylons are machines!" and think of them as metal/plastic/silicon, and organic life as "tissue" etc. However, from my bio stuff, when I look at a human cell, I see a vastly complex clock of ATP, glucose, amino acids...an interacting mechanism of molecules of carbon chains, etc. Could not an artificial mechanism functioning along similar principles be created which was self sustaining?
:::::C) At no time did I say genetic engineering was an "upgrade of DNA", layman. I didn't want to spout off on a lot of terminology that would simply be lost in a quick conversation. Putting words in my mouth, you are. Genetic engineering isn't an "upgrade" of "DNA"; ''genomes'', on the other hand, can have new sequences added, etc. (The word "upgrade" implies some semi-magical, Chemical X-style super-charge). What I had in mind with the Cylons was that ''' The DNA sequence itself is just a starting point:''' what about [[Wikipedia:Imprinting_(genetics)|Genomic Imprinting]] in conjunction with [[Wikipedia:DNA_methylation|DNA methylation]], possibly even veering into [[Wikipedia:Epigenetic_inheritance|Epigenetic Inheritance]]? Long story short: DNA in eukaryotes (for example, humans) is coated in a sheath of histone proteins. Changes in these can change gene expression. More importantly, adding a ''methyl'' group to a section of DNA can determine how it is ''expressed''. Different amino acids then interact in different combinations than before. The human genome codes for many times more proteins than there is DNA coding for specific aa's. But using alternative splicing of mRNA, and altering the expression of DNA coding for different combinations of amino acids....things get a lot more interesting. We don't even fully understand how the 'histone code' works very well. That is my point: When I think of the Cylons I think of them using normal DNA, not nanomachines, but using like the English alphabet: there are 26 letters, and using these I can express all sorts of ideas on BattlestarWiki. These same 26 characters can also be used in a book like ''A Brief History of Time'', to create a new Quantum Theory or something; far more complex than the simple messages I might use on AIM or something....'''But using the same basic building blocks''' of Carbon, Nitrogen, Hydrogen, Oxygen. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:35, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::: Merv... *sigh* What's the point of comments like "So called OliverH" and directing "layman" at him? In regards to the former, one could equally assert that you're "so called" Merovingian or that I'm "so called" Day. These are handles, nicknames and pseudonyms we use on the ''internet''. Implying that someone's name here is somehow false seems either (because I know you're not dumb) disingenuous, juvenile or irrelevant, depending on interpretation. The latter of my examples seems only to be of the juvenile sort of comment. It's name calling, basically. And, before you start, don't attempt to say you were being honest as some kind of defense. With words like "layman" it's all a matter of perspective and I think it's clear from the general tone of your post that it was intended as a jab. Now... would the '''both of you''' (OliverH, included) calm down and not ''aim'' your posts at each other as if they were some kind of ballistae or something? It ''is'' possible to disagree with someone and not call them names. I have done it before. ''Even'' on the internet. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:31, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::::Sorry about that; I was in full-on Monty Python mode (French Castle: "So-called Arthur-King!", etc. etc. Yes they're all made up screenames; bit of (poor) internet humor I never get over). As for "layman", yes, even I thought that was a little too over the top, I must admit; just that he derided my ability to understand any of this, so I then responded by posting links to all of the things I was talking about in detail, etc. Unlike "Frackface" or something, "layman" implies levels of relatives knowledgibility, etc. Probably shouldn't have used that, sorry. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:49, 9 February 2006 (EST)

Ok, I'll try to simply restate the points since they seem to have been misunderstood and misrepresented consistently.
*I have no opinion as to how anything DOES work in this part of the story, mainly because I think that there is no explanation for it other than dramatic license -no matter what RDM says. He studied political sciences, his knowledge of natural science is -as many comments show- quite limited.
*Nanomachines aren't technobabble. They are a means to an end that is being heavily pursued by researchers as we write these pages. As the books I linked above show, in parallel to manufacturing obstacles including logistics being solved, people are anticipating possible medical uses and strategies to overcome obstacles in the achieving of the actual effect. They are pure, honest-to-god hard science-fiction, and only in that as of now, our clean room nanotechnology is just in development.
*Stem cells have a big advantage: They can do anything a regular cell can do. Stem cells also have a big disadvantage: They can do anything a regular cell can do. From that spectrum of possibilities arrives the problem of regulation. And regulation is a pain. The more your tool can do, the more you have your work cut out for you that it does specifically what you want it to do and not something else. Especially in the body, where a whole lot of other signals that the cell is equipped to listen to because it ''is'' a cell, it would be next to impossible to have the cells follow a specific course of action. Nanomachines on the other hand are a)specialists and b)oblivious to the signalling by hormones or other subtance gradients unless specifically designed to respond to them.
*Merovingians comments regarding using DNA like the english alphabet have a couple of problems: As Merovingian states, the english alphabet has 26 letters. The DNA alphabet has four. It's not an issue of the alphabet alone, however, but also of word size. The word size in the English language is variable, meaning a whole lot of different words can be constructed. The DNA word size is fixed at three. This limits the "meaning" to a very limited and defined set of possibilities. Now, of course we could draw up an alternative way of using the same concept, with more letters, or different word sizes. However, the consequence would be that whatever is the outcome of this is less related to us than every single lifeform we know of, from other primates to the "lowliest" bacteria. We could categorically rule out any conception of children, since the sets of genomes would require totally distinct "reading systems". The only viable alternative would be to reduce redundancy, the way amino acids have been added, or added frequency, over the course of evolution. However, redundancy also is a safeguard against effects of mutations -if the mutation doesn't make a difference, then there can be no harmful effect. So if we reduce redundancy, we increase susceptibility to mutations.
*All the mechanisms listed by Merovingian above exist, of course. But they exist as part of a complex network of regulatory mechanisms that makes it practically impossible to say "Well, if we throw this switch, then this, and only this will happen". The effect is illustrated by the fact that most of these mechanisms can also be involved in [[Wikipedia:Carcinogenesis|Carcinogenesis]]. So repercussions of fiddling here are not limited, but can in fact be quite major. This leads to the key problem I am trying to address:
While we can hypothesize all we want about possible mechanisms for the cancer cure to work, or about how cylons work, the fact is that our choices are chiefly between which parts of what we see is plausible. If we take a lot of what we see about the Cylons as actually working, we'd have to reject the notions that they cannot be told apart from humans and that they are capable of procreation with humans. If we take the latter for granted, than the ways in which their physiology and their genes can differ from ours is severely limited. We are what we are and who we are because of a finely tuned system. Even minor changes to that system are likely to have major effects. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 06:21, 11 February 2006 (EST)

==Genetics==
1.) My impression was that baltar was sketching schematic representations of human and cylon antigens, not individual nitrogenous bases (which wouldn't really be relevant for the treatment he was proposing)

2.) Are you certain the hexagonal image is of uracil, and not another [[Wikipedia:pyrimidine|pyrimidine]] such as [[Wikipedia:cytosine|cytosine]] or [[Wikipedia:thymine|thymine]]? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:20, 2 February 2006 (EST)

:2) Indeed. I've been going over my Human Molecular Genetics notes, and this is the only possibility. The difficulty you may have encountered is that Baltar is holding it upside down. Actually, I made a drawing of what we see "on screen" in the commercial (unfortunately, BSGwiki doesn't seem to want to upload bmp images; sorry).

:There is a very long line coming of of a Nitrogen; this represent an R-linkage (that is, where the base connects to deoxyribose). ''Traditionally'', (by Earth international convention) the R-linkage making Nitrogen is placed at the bottom of the diagram; plus, Baltar drew it backwords, but that's just viewing it from a different angle and changes none of the linkages. This is where we see "NH" on the bottom of that pic of Uracil I have; the H gets dropped and the N forms the R-linkage. I spent a long time trying to figure out which one it was before I determined that it is definately Uracil; none of the others. You can see this more clearly in the page on [[Wikipedia:Nucleotide|Nucleotide]]: the one we see has no NH2 subgroup linked to a carbon in the ring, so it's definately not Cytosine (Cytosine has 3 N's, Uracil and Thymine, only 2). It can't be thymine, because it has no H3C subgroup branching off of the ring. It actually looks exactly like the image of Uracil on the Nucleotide article.

:1)****My entire point, Farago, is that Ron D. Moore stated in his podcast that ORIGINALLY, Baltar *was* making all of thse comparisons of DNA, stem cells, etc. and stating how Cylon **DNA** is different. However, he got in a panic, because as we all know he is nervous to use Technobabble (often, this is a very good thing) but this time he overreacted; now all of the messageboards are filled with complaints of "This wasn't explained well enough; he just said it's "blood was special" and drew two overlapping squares; this doesn't explain anything". '''In scenes that they deleted, Baltar goes into detail explaining what's different about it, comparing DNA structure, etc. ''' Hopefully, we will see it in the DVD when these scenes are released. ''' However, (as sometimes happens) footage from deleted scenes was used to make the commercial for the episode, and because I taped it off of tv (as opposed to downloading it) I was able to pause it and look at this.''' Really, they just cut a *LOT* of stuff out; it's not *JUST* "antigents"; the script for this scene was butchered in the editing room, and the explanation is actually a lot more complex than just "it's blood has no antigens"; Antigens for ''what''? Antigens are things that trigger an immune response; in that sense, '''this isn't that much different from the O-[[Wikipedia:blood type|blood type]]. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:16, 2 February 2006 (EST)

::I'm [[Talk:Epiphanies#Cancer Therapy|well aware]] of that. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:24, 2 February 2006 (EST)

== Speed check ==

In the section "Distances and Speeds..." two figures fro the speed of light are quoted in as many paragraphs. The first is correct: 3x10^8 meters/second. The second figure is 54x10^10 meters/second. Is this the speed of light in miles/second instead? (as the answer is given in miles/hour)

As a postscript regarding why the ''Galactica'' hasn't jumped in 20 years, the battlestar could have been part of a home or system fleet, much like Great Britain had an English Channel Fleet during the Napoleonic Wars. [[User:Sentinel75|Sentinel75]] 23:18, 10 February 2006 (EST)

:Hi, Sentinel. The figures you saw was the calculation of ''distance = speed(time)''. To avoid error, the travel time is converted from hours (5.5) to seconds. The speed of light is converted from miles/sec (186,282) to meters/sec. Once that's done, the result (distance) is in meters. Since ''Battlestar Wiki's'' audience is primarily American, I presented the result converted into miles as well.

:Your idea on ''Galactica's'' need not to jump in 20 years is pretty good as you've reminded me of my ''Hornblower'' readings and historical information. I will add it to the page as an additional bullet. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:16, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:http://www.google.com/search?q=speed+of+light+in+meters%2Fsec Switch the units around and it still doesn't make sense. (m/s)/s = m/s ? '''no''' That formula is gibberish. I'll fix it. The original mistake happens to give the right answer because 5.4*10^11 is the result of the prior calculation in meters. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 23:37, 21 February 2006 (EST)

:Hi All,
There seems to be a ''plot hole'' in the miniseries, or you need to recalculate your ETA: Colonial Heavy 798 went to Galactica alone, but it was supposed to be escorted back by Apollo in an old Mark II Viper. So while the flight to Galactica could have taken 5.5 hours, at max acceleration, which was made possible by Colonial Heavy 798´s artificial gravity, the flight back would´ve taken much much longer, because Apollo´s Viper isn´t equipped with artificial gravity! (that´s apparent from what starbuck tells the nuggets in "act of contrition").
--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 9:21 08 August 2006 (GMT +1)
:Technically, her comment only implies that there is no artificial gravity in combat. Maybe it's too energy-expensive to use in combat; it would be counteracting about 562g for the miniseries trip, so using a lot of power is not unreasonable. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 04:23, 8 August 2006 (CDT)
::Hmm, that opens the question what the difference between combat and non-combat mode power-consumption in vipers would be. I don´t think that there would be any difference. But I am willing to speculate, that colonial technology may have invented some kind of device which counteracts high acceleration g-force force ONLY when it is aligned with the dorsal angle of the viper, so that it is useless when the fighter yaws, turns, banks and slides.--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 9:55 10 August 2006 (GMT +1)

== Cylon missiles have contrails in space ==
[[Image:cylon_missile.jpg|thumb|right]]
This is impossible. I think. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 18:27, 13 March 2006 (CST)
:They must have some exhaust stream, but not the puffy contrail visible there. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:14, 13 March 2006 (CST)
::I don't think that any exhaust would be visible because the exhuast is expanding rapidly and in space there is no resistance to that expansion. The density of the exhuast would quickly become so low that it would not be visible. They prolly just thought it would look better, but it bugs me anyway. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 19:34, 13 March 2006 (CST)
:::I agree with you Bp, it bugs me too... In fact the fact that there are still sound effects for things going on in space REALLY BUGS ME!!! (Like when a Cylon Raider flies by) Before the Mini-Series I could have sworn I read that they were going to be faithful to science in that there wouldn't be "sound" in space. Perhaps I was wrong. I would really like to see a science fiction show ditch the sound effects in space. --[[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 20:14, 13 March 2006 (CST)
::::If I remember correctly, RDM in the commentary for the Mini the he was going to have no sound in space but NBC forced him to change. As a compromise, he made it muted. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:18, 13 March 2006 (CST)

==Lagoon nebula==
Loving the image of the milky way labelled with stuff but it wasnt made by anyone here and it links to imageshack so i think we should recreate it ourselves? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:51, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:Since I don't know who owns that graphic, yes, having a reproduction of it (who can copyright a ''galaxy''?) would be really great to have in case the link is lost. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:52, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::([[Wikipedia:SCO Group|SCO]] might try.) That'd be great! It'd be much better to have a for sure creative commons version for display purposes. (Maybe a small thumbnail of it in the article, instead of the link, once it's "ours.") Is Merc on the job? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:05, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:::[[:Image:Locations in BSG galaxy.jpg|This?]] Its not perfect so ill try and find some more exact locations for earth etc, im not an astro physics dude or astronomer lol --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 15:35, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Science in the Re-imagined Series/Archive 1

2006-08-10T07:42:54Z

Rafale: /* Speed check */

For an archived earlier discussion thread prior to February 8, 2006, [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Talk:Science_in_the_Re-imagined_Series&oldid=30324 click here.]

==Artificial Gravity==
Be careful not to confuse Naturalistic SF with Hard SF. They have little to do with one another. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:09, 9 December 2005 (EST)
:Of course, in fact, they are quite opposite, but NSF takes a few elements from hard SF, though not in the extreme that hard SF defines itself. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:18, 9 December 2005 (EST)
Another wrinkle in the whole artificial gravity can of worms: The ability to manipulate gravity fields opens the door to many other technologies, too. For example, a rudimentary tractor beam could be constructed by using your artificial gravity field to pull objects toward your ship. The reverse is probably possible -- using it to repel objects and projectiles for a sort of a deflector shield. Since the Colonials have none of these abilities and yet have apparently had artificial gravity for a long time (before the contruction of the Galactica), it stands to reason that whatever means they use to generate gravity is severely limited. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 11:45, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Welcome to the Wiki, Zeratul. I agree; this limits whatever they use to gravity simulators rather than generators, given their power limitations and storyline limits. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:06, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::Thanks for the welcome, Spencerian. Long time reader first time contributor here. :) Another thing to consider is that whatever they use for gravity continues to work even when main power and control is lost, as in [[Valley of Darkness]]. Likely it would have a separate power source and controls as the life support systems do, meaning it's either passive or doesn't require much power to operate.
:::It's difficult to see, but in the miniseries the doomed botanical freighter seems to have domes on both the top and bottom of the ship, which would imply they have the ability to maintain several different gravitational vectors within a ship.
:::Another good reference would be Boomer's raptor in the miniseries, when she powers it down for the approach to Caprica. I think they were strapped in at the time though, so the gravity may or may not have been shut off.
:::I suspect, though, that this is something that will never really be explained but rather remain a plot-driven convenience. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 14:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)

==Sublight vs. FTL==
The fact that Colonial One, an FTL-capable ship, made its way from Caprica to Galactica at Sublight tells us something else - 5.5 hours of engine burn consume less energy than a hyperspace jump to cover the same distance. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:58, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:Not necessarily. Two reasons why--first, FTL might not have been an option: either it was illegal, seen as too dangerous for travel within a system, deemed too uncomfortable for passengers, or pilots simply weren't trained to calculate a jump, any of which are potentially valid given Tigh's comment that it had been 20 years since a jump. Of course, that may raise a question as to why the drive was installed in the first place. (Regulations? Holdover from the first war?) Secondly, it seems unrealistic that it would take more energy to jump that small distance than to burn the fuel because the entire fleet can jump like 230 times in a row ([[33]]) without any refueling problems or the like. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 21:19, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:I think that FTL flight is generally quite disconcerting to passengers, judging from Cally's take on it when we see ''Galactica'' make its first Jump in the Miniseries. So, sublight is preferable in most instances. I cannot determine from any episodes whether the fuel consumption is more or less when going at sublight over FTL. The comfort level is the most likely reason. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:52, 1 January 2006 (EST)

==Nukes==
If the energy density of [[Tylium]] is so much greater than fissile materials and has the added benefit of producing no fallout, and requiring no sophisticated trigger mechanism, why do the Colonials use nuclear warheads on their missiles rather than tylium bombs? Nuclear fallout has desirable side effects against organic targets, which explains Cylon use thereof, but what advantage does it offer human forces?

:(Obviously, in real life it's a question of storytelling:
:"For instance, in the Galactica mini-series, when the Cylons attack the colonists, they attack them with thermonuclear weapons. They don't attack them with lasers and photon torpedoes, and strange things that don't exist.
:"When you see a planet nuked, and you see those mushroom clouds, and hear about the destruction of entire cities by nuclear weapons, that is a much more terrifying and frightening idea than if you're saying fifteen thousand photon torpedoes were launched at Caprica. One is real and one is not." [http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/news/cult/2004/02/20/9599.shtml]
:"There would not be 'photon torpedoes' but instead nuclear missiles, because nukes are real and thus are frightening." [http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/magazine/17GALACTICA.html]
:"We use nukes. And these days, that’s truly scary. You use photon torpedoes and the audience goes 'oh, okay. shrug.'" [http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA513174.html?display=Top+Stories]) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:09, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:Nukes have the desireable side effect of creating an electromagnetic pulse which disrupts all (currently) known forms of electronics. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 02:41, 8 January 2006 (EST)
: And a side note, now that I think of it. Considering the supposed rarity of tylium, Nukes are also much easier to produce and much less of a waste of a valuable resource. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:12, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::You hit the nail on the head, Durandal. If you can, work up what you just said and add it to the article! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:15, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::: Does not really fit in this article, whithout generating a new section for such a point. If anyone has a better idea for placement, I'm all ears. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:25, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:My own thoughts on the subject are A) Tylium is somewhat rare so it is difficult to mass produce nuclear warheads, but more importantly B) Baltar said that detonating a nuclear warhead near Tylium would "render it inert", not create a chain reaction. I think that Tylium must be "reactive/unstable" enough that it's a good fuel source (moreso than just Plutonium), however, it probably has the chemical property that it is very difficult to produce an explosive uncontrollable chain reaction with it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:13, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::That would disagree with the extremely large tylium explosion seen at the end of "The Hand of God". I prefer Durandal's explanation. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:24, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:::In Ricimer's defense, the explosion was caused by the precursor, the refined but unprocessed component that forms the fuel later. Precursor is more unstable or explosive than the fuel. There are chemicals throughout the Periodic Table that release tremendous energies, more so than plutonium. The problem is the process of controlling it. Else, hydrogen would be our fuel of choice for everything: common, cheap, and leaves a benign by-product. For the Colonies, tylium was their answer. I disagree that tylium is rare, although I think it is hard to find; the Fleet's luck in finding one rock of it also implies that a little tylium goes an awfully long way, but mining and processing it is a real bitch. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:40, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Landings & Gravity ==

Unless I am completely mistaken, aside from whatever may be the 'standard' artifical gravity source aboard Galactica, it is explicitly stated that the actual landing pads in the flight pods rely upon magnitism to hold craft in place en route to the hanger.
:"Viper Four-five-zero, skids down, mag-lock secure." (Kelly to Apollo upon touchdown aproximately 22 minutes into the miniseries)
[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 02:56, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:Correct. On the flight deck, magnetism is used to secure landing Vipers. But in the hangar deck and manned areas of the ship, something else is used, since the humans (and many other virtually non-magnetic items in CIC and elsewhere) are kept from floating. It's an unexplained conumdrum that right now is just a writing convenience. If the article appears to be vague in that topic, do modify it. I created and generated much of this article, and sometimes I can get too wordy and the point gets muddled. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:19, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:: I actually wrote this bit in response to note 2, which states it as a possibility as opposed to cannon-fact. I'm not quite sure HOW to rewrite it, unfortunately... [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:23, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Expensive claim... ==

I find the recent expense claim [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|uncitable]] at best. There's absolutely no indication either way that financial expense played into utilizing FTL Jump technology in BSG. Therefore, unless we can get someone to point out where this info came from, I vote for its removal. Also, just because ''Galactica'' didn't perform a jump in 20 years doesn't really mean that it is normal for Colonail ships (military or otherwise) to rely on sublight travel alone. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:15, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:I read it differently - the statement seems to infer expense from the fact that FTL travel is not used frequently, not vice-versa. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:23, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::I think they just didn't do it, because why risk the (albeit very very small) safety concerns of warping through space? (a wrong calculation and we could wind up in the sun", etc.) Remember, they really have FTL drive for two reasons: 1) It's a holdover from the Exodus (''theory'' but not established fact and frankly I don't believe that), 2) they do have a "sphere of influence" beyond the 12 Colonies, not full-fledged other planets, just mining-camp colonies like Troy. So that's why they put in FTL; plus it's good to have instantaneous travel. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:50, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::: It would be logical to assume that, with so many ships "up in the air", as it were, Jumping into another ship or even trade route may be a concern. I don't fully agree with the "holdover from the Exodus" theory either and it seems likely that FTL technology was put into place as a means of instantaneous transportation during wartime. (Imagine jumping out of harms way instead of fleeing from the enemy at sublight speeds; in fact, this is quite similar to ''Farscape'' and the Leviathan's ability to starburst.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:52, 2 February 2006 (EST)

:I think the current reasons are sufficient enough; there doesn't necessarily need to be a separate bullet point about "expense," especially because it is so vague and unexplained. Is it the cost of buying fuel that's expensive? Probably not, based on what we've seen so far in terms of tylium consumption. They seem to jump quite a bit and don't need to refuel very often. (Basically, just in Hand of God, and that's after jumping constantly for weeks. I mean, they could have been distributing Galactica's tylium to the other ships, but if Galactica has ''that'' much, it can't be that exorbitant of a fuel source, particularly so in peacetime when the ships were first loaded.) Is it wear and tear on the ship that costs money to fix? Maybe, but for the fleet to have lasted this long without any ships breaking down undercuts that theory. I mean, how else do you define expense? I'm not missing something here, am I? --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 02:19, 2 February 2006 (EST)

==The Cancer Cure of Laura Roslin==

One possibility we may want to consider is that of the Humano-Cylons being party based on nanotechnology. If the Cylons have nanobots in their blood, it would explain the selective destruction of cancer cells, and the quick repair of normal cells, and how such a small amount could completely cure the disease. Additionally, a Cylon-Human hybrid would have nanobots less likely to reject a normal human's system.

It would also explain the seeming contradiction in the Humano-Cylon's nature -- that they are close enough to human that even an autoposy cannot tell them apart, and yet somehow machine enough to upload their memories and consciousness.

Though this is my personal favorite theory, there's absolutely no canonical basis for it. --[[User:zeratul|zeratul]]

:It seems that the stem cell theory was the "answer" to this, as stated in the article, now with RDM voicing in on the original explanation that was edited away or revised before filming because it was too technical. Further, your theory conflicts with the established point that Cylon and human physiology is practically identical in appearance and function down to the cellular level, implying that nanotechnology would be identifiable medically. This is supported as well since, unless such nanotech is masked to work with human physiology, Roslin's body would have an autoimmune reaction, fighting off the fetal blood like in an Rh factor reaction. Aside from the established effects of the fetal blood used, only Baltar's [[Cylon detector]] can accurately discern Cylon from human. Funny, I just listened today to an article on National Public Radio that says that fetal stem cells "leak" from the placenta of each baby (born or unborn) into the mother's body, which become an "elite" (but small) force of cells that aid in protecting or repairing damage or disease in the mother for years, according to early research. I ''have'' to get that link to this article--it is very ''apropos'' here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:17, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Yes, I agree with you that the stem cells are the official explanation. I'm not sure if I buy it, however, as real-life stem cells can't spontaneously cure something as complex as cancer just by injecting them. Baltar's been wrong before. Yes, yes, genetically engineered Cylons are a possibility (but wouldn't that be easily detectable at the Colonials' current level of technology?). I guess for now we'll have to write it off as a "magical" effect of hybrids... Sigh :)
::If the nanomachines were small enough they wouldn't be visible even under a microscope (haven't seen an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanning_electron_microscope SEM] on the show yet), and could probably be designed to not show up to chemical tests as well -- especially if they were programmed to actively mask themselves. Again, probably not what they'll go with, just a theory I've been kicking around. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 14:43, 8 February 2006 (EST)

With the caveat that I haven't seen the episode yet:why would Roslin's body have an autoimmune reaction when nanotechnology is used? In any case, the stem cell theory doesn't work. If Roslin indeed was at death's door, the damage to the healthy tissue is too great for stem cells to repair that in the necessary time frame. Protein needs to by synthesized, cells need to divide, etc. Plus, while stem cells can theoretically be used to create any organ, they still need the programming, which is not given in an adult body. They can be programmed in vitro, but they won't just form a liver if you inject them into the liver -the hormone gradients that existed during embryogenesis don't exist anymore, likewise the angiogenetic factors aren't around that would cause the cells to be supplied with the necessary nutrients. Although, ironically, the tumor might have spilled enough of those. And even if you get the cells to grow in the right places, you'd have to get them to stop growing as well, otherwise you've just replaced one cancer with another etc. etc... I think the cancer cure is just as much dramatic license as the "cylon and human physiology being identical". Given the silica pathways and the computer connectivity, there are quite obvious differences. I think that RDM did well to cut out the science since it is meaningless to the layperson and would likely have resulted in rolling eyes with people with expertise in the field. It is a contrived plot device, and trying to explain it away is likely to be futile. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 15:18, 8 February 2006 (EST)

As an added point, I consider the issue with fetal cells as repairmen in the mother to be heavily overstated in the article here. The NPR contribution merely lists it as a hypothesis. There is no "appear", and there is several problems with at least the written part of the NPR contribution: It suggests that the fetal cells "could behave" as stem cells. However, there's more cells in a fetus than just stem cells, and in any case, at this stage, the cells aren't totipotent, i.e. capable of making ANYthing anymore, they have already diversified. It takes early embryonic stem cells for totipotency. I am also sceptical as far as these cells remaining "for life" goes: They'd be good candidates as a cancer ''cause'' rather than cure if they do. The other point is, as I tried to explain above, that these cells turn into specific tissue not just as an execution of an internal program, but as a response to external stimuli, such as hormones secreted by other cells in the vicinity. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 15:36, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:True, Oliver, the NPR article is actually educated speculation (hypothesis at best). As someone whose medical/biology experience is that of a layman, I welcome you, both to the wiki, as well as to improve in the scientific explanations on this page. Interesting stuff you noted there. We know, of course, that this is all dramatic license, but for writers to go the extra mile and make an attempt to base the cure on some credible level of scientific theorem on the topic (unlike *cough*Star Trek*cough*some shows I know) is a notable thing. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:31, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::Well, at least StarTrek made SOME good choices about their technobabble: Knowing fully well that any prediction on computer power and storage capacity would likely be outdated even before the end of the series, they invented totally fictious parameters. Likewise with many other things. While this still leaves the opportunity to violate basic laws of physics, at least it prevents the "no way it could work that way" effect. There's a reason people study for science, and a reason scientists specialize: It's such a vast field that it's practically impossible to know one's way around everything. So a writer has the choice between winging it or hiring a huge staff of scientists and engineers who give him some well-founded speculation on how things could possibly be explained. That ain't gonna fly, obviously, so one way or the other of winging it will have to do for most productions. Now of course a writer can pick up the latest newspaper articles he read and implement them, but the problem is that most newspaper articles on scientific issues aren't precisely written by people with a grasp of the field either. What's worse, even most scientists don't really concern themselves with the theoretic bases of a solid standard of evidence. Alas, this is especially true in the medical field, where people who went to med school do a lot of research while, unlike people who studied sciences, they could grab little scientific theory at least implicitly. Or, to point at something that bugs folks like me quite regularly: If an M.D. has one patient who shows strange symptoms or responds to an unusualy therapy, he happily submits a publication that goes by the type "case report". If, say, a molecular biologist in the biomedical field hears of such an incident, he will at first glance attribute it to a combination of factors valid for that patient only and dismiss it as anecdotal until he hears of a significant number of cases showing some specific pattern and statistical relevance. Which is why especially in this field, going by mainstream press publications is like tangoing through a minefield. If you comb the literature with fine enough a comb, you will come across plenty of "miracle" cases. However, hold a magnifying glass of stringent scientific standards of evidence at them and they go up in hot air. (Background: I'm currently on the last lap of a Ph.D. in the cancer research field, working on new diagnostic methods.) --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 19:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::No, it is ridiculous to say that Star Trek handled technobabble well. That's why we call it technobabble. OTHER than that one point: they realized that computer power would increase so exponentionally by the 24th century that they just made up non-real units ("kiloquads", etc). '''Otherwise, it was laughable. Listen to RDM''' when he's talking about how Levar Burton seemed kind of good at spouting it off in season 1, so they just gave ''all of it to him''. Now, to understand my reaction, I actually watch TNG repeats pretty much every other day. Just finished watching the end of "A Matter of Perspective"; yikes. Crazy technobabble (well, the signal bounced off of some mirrors, but it was so powerful, that when reversed it must have acted like a laser beam" etc. etc.)--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:36, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::Please cite where I said that Star Trek handled technobabble well. You will have difficulties doing so. I suggest you stop just slamming everything you don't like and stick to the facts. The simple fact that you don't like a solution doesn't make it "technobabble" per se, nor does taking any odd scientific hypothesis as truth make something good drama. If you get stomach cramps watching TNG, why do you watch it 'every other day'? --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

::::"Well, at least StarTrek made SOME good choices about their technobabble" seems to heavily imply this position. And it's the only thing on.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:18, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:Humanoid Cylon physiology does not contain "nanomachines"; human cells are also machines, if bio-chemical ones. What the Cylons appear to have done is to have artificially developed the genetic code for an artificial organism which is mostly like humans, but has had certain "upgrades" to it's DNA. I've seen nothing to even come close to speculation that they use "nanomachiens"; this verges into Star Trek ''Borg, Seven of Nine-esque'' [[technobabble]], (shudder). And...no, wait...(''shudder''). Sorry, lots of bad memories. Well, It's just needlessly complicated for this show and I don't think they'd stoop to that level. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:42, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Well, the thing is, it's a huge difference whether it's a biochemical machine or not. The human immune system is very efficient in fighting foreign "biochemical machines" in that it can recognize proteins that aren't part of the body. We know that some nonbiological materials such as graphite or teflon can also trigger an immune response, but this can easily be avoided by using different material. In an ideal scenario (not given here), nanorobots could even simply be coated with "self" proteins and be waved through by the immune system. There's a whole lot of literature on nanomedicine prospects at http://www.nanomedicine.com/index.htm including entire books for free, or, for the less ambitious, the FAQ at http://www.foresight.org/Nanomedicine/NanoMedFAQ.html. And frankly, as a molecular biologist, I shudder at "upgrades" to DNA. A system that can give us everything from archaeobacteria to humans has already demonstrated that it is extremely flexible and yet efficient. I have a bit of an impression that "technobabble" is whatever solution one doesn't like ;) --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 19:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::And, as a genetics major, I can tell you that quite a lot can be done with DNA; right now it's like flying a plane in the first decade of the 20th century; not impossible, but very hard. However, that doesn't mean that ''in theory'', such advances are impossible. Given enought time it could be done. '''Further''', you didn't really address the question. You just meandered around spouting off a lot of information on "nanomachines" without really explaining their practicality or applicability to this situation. And "a system already demonstreated this it is extremely flexible and efficient"....er, this isn't a rebutal. You just made a long sentence stating that "yup, that's DNA for ya", but that specific sentence doesn't actually address the issue of nanomchines, genetic engineering, etc. at all. Please get back on topic. We are not fooled by lots of information being thrown at us and can tell when it lacks actual substance. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:41, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::: *sigh* I should have posted when I first read this, but figured everyone else could see what was going on. Apparently not. RiciMerovingian, please calm a moment. I think you jumped to the worst possible conclusion, rather than giving the benefit of the doubt. What I read as having occured is that Oliver misunderstood the statement about "updates to DNA" as meaning that the fundamental nature of DNA had been upgraded. I don't think he was intentionally obfuscating the topic with terminology that might be over a layman's head in order to "win". I think he was just confused.

:::: Anyway, what was actually meant, as ''I'' read it, was that the DNA that makes one human has been altered in Cylons to have certain upgrades, not that they have better DNA (such that it is not, really, DNA), but that their DNA is almost human, except enccoded to be, say, more resiliant to diseases, quicker healing in the case of physical damage and (as an example of an "upgrade" I'd personally skip, if I were them) unable to procreate. '''Anyway''', hopefully now everyone sees where we got off track, we can put unpleasantness behind and backup to where we were still on topic. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:28, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::Day, the problem is that if their genes were in some way "better" as in more efficient etc. this could be easily discerned with 20th century level technology and could only go so far before the organism is not compatible with human organisms anymore as in clearly being recognized as foreign by the immune system and possibly even incompatible for procreation. In any case, it would also mean that physiology is far from identical. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

::::Merovingian, I realize you didn't like what I said, but claiming that my statements lacked substance when in fact, I made specific arguments and referenced them is quite off. I very much addressed the issue: You stated "human cells are also machines", implying that nanomachines would have no significantly different properties, which is plain false. I also explained further up why stem cells are not viable as an explanation. I never actually said that nanomachines are, in fact pointing out that the event was pure dramatic license. I simply rebutted the objections about nanomachines. As for lacking substance, ''as a genetics major, I can tell you that quite a lot can be done with DNA; right now it's like flying a plane in the first decade of the 20th century; not impossible, but very hard'' is devoid of any. It's simply a claim "I know better", without stating what it actually is you think you know nor whether it is actually supported by anyone else. Genetic engineering is no "upgrade of DNA". I suggest you decide what your concrete arguments are and support them and live with the fact that while you may not like the concept of nanomachines, it is far from technobabble. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::So called OliverH: A) No, you just threw around a lot of jargon, but after reading your penultimate entry, I realized you hadn't said anything of actual substance.
:::::B) I will ''elaborate'': When I say "The human cell is also a machine", this in NO WAY implies agreement with "nanomachines", as you state above. Some people (viewers who don't watch scifi or know even basic biology; not us) are stuck on the fact that "Cylons are machines!" and think of them as metal/plastic/silicon, and organic life as "tissue" etc. However, from my bio stuff, when I look at a human cell, I see a vastly complex clock of ATP, glucose, amino acids...an interacting mechanism of molecules of carbon chains, etc. Could not an artificial mechanism functioning along similar principles be created which was self sustaining?
:::::C) At no time did I say genetic engineering was an "upgrade of DNA", layman. I didn't want to spout off on a lot of terminology that would simply be lost in a quick conversation. Putting words in my mouth, you are. Genetic engineering isn't an "upgrade" of "DNA"; ''genomes'', on the other hand, can have new sequences added, etc. (The word "upgrade" implies some semi-magical, Chemical X-style super-charge). What I had in mind with the Cylons was that ''' The DNA sequence itself is just a starting point:''' what about [[Wikipedia:Imprinting_(genetics)|Genomic Imprinting]] in conjunction with [[Wikipedia:DNA_methylation|DNA methylation]], possibly even veering into [[Wikipedia:Epigenetic_inheritance|Epigenetic Inheritance]]? Long story short: DNA in eukaryotes (for example, humans) is coated in a sheath of histone proteins. Changes in these can change gene expression. More importantly, adding a ''methyl'' group to a section of DNA can determine how it is ''expressed''. Different amino acids then interact in different combinations than before. The human genome codes for many times more proteins than there is DNA coding for specific aa's. But using alternative splicing of mRNA, and altering the expression of DNA coding for different combinations of amino acids....things get a lot more interesting. We don't even fully understand how the 'histone code' works very well. That is my point: When I think of the Cylons I think of them using normal DNA, not nanomachines, but using like the English alphabet: there are 26 letters, and using these I can express all sorts of ideas on BattlestarWiki. These same 26 characters can also be used in a book like ''A Brief History of Time'', to create a new Quantum Theory or something; far more complex than the simple messages I might use on AIM or something....'''But using the same basic building blocks''' of Carbon, Nitrogen, Hydrogen, Oxygen. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:35, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::: Merv... *sigh* What's the point of comments like "So called OliverH" and directing "layman" at him? In regards to the former, one could equally assert that you're "so called" Merovingian or that I'm "so called" Day. These are handles, nicknames and pseudonyms we use on the ''internet''. Implying that someone's name here is somehow false seems either (because I know you're not dumb) disingenuous, juvenile or irrelevant, depending on interpretation. The latter of my examples seems only to be of the juvenile sort of comment. It's name calling, basically. And, before you start, don't attempt to say you were being honest as some kind of defense. With words like "layman" it's all a matter of perspective and I think it's clear from the general tone of your post that it was intended as a jab. Now... would the '''both of you''' (OliverH, included) calm down and not ''aim'' your posts at each other as if they were some kind of ballistae or something? It ''is'' possible to disagree with someone and not call them names. I have done it before. ''Even'' on the internet. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:31, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::::Sorry about that; I was in full-on Monty Python mode (French Castle: "So-called Arthur-King!", etc. etc. Yes they're all made up screenames; bit of (poor) internet humor I never get over). As for "layman", yes, even I thought that was a little too over the top, I must admit; just that he derided my ability to understand any of this, so I then responded by posting links to all of the things I was talking about in detail, etc. Unlike "Frackface" or something, "layman" implies levels of relatives knowledgibility, etc. Probably shouldn't have used that, sorry. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:49, 9 February 2006 (EST)

Ok, I'll try to simply restate the points since they seem to have been misunderstood and misrepresented consistently.
*I have no opinion as to how anything DOES work in this part of the story, mainly because I think that there is no explanation for it other than dramatic license -no matter what RDM says. He studied political sciences, his knowledge of natural science is -as many comments show- quite limited.
*Nanomachines aren't technobabble. They are a means to an end that is being heavily pursued by researchers as we write these pages. As the books I linked above show, in parallel to manufacturing obstacles including logistics being solved, people are anticipating possible medical uses and strategies to overcome obstacles in the achieving of the actual effect. They are pure, honest-to-god hard science-fiction, and only in that as of now, our clean room nanotechnology is just in development.
*Stem cells have a big advantage: They can do anything a regular cell can do. Stem cells also have a big disadvantage: They can do anything a regular cell can do. From that spectrum of possibilities arrives the problem of regulation. And regulation is a pain. The more your tool can do, the more you have your work cut out for you that it does specifically what you want it to do and not something else. Especially in the body, where a whole lot of other signals that the cell is equipped to listen to because it ''is'' a cell, it would be next to impossible to have the cells follow a specific course of action. Nanomachines on the other hand are a)specialists and b)oblivious to the signalling by hormones or other subtance gradients unless specifically designed to respond to them.
*Merovingians comments regarding using DNA like the english alphabet have a couple of problems: As Merovingian states, the english alphabet has 26 letters. The DNA alphabet has four. It's not an issue of the alphabet alone, however, but also of word size. The word size in the English language is variable, meaning a whole lot of different words can be constructed. The DNA word size is fixed at three. This limits the "meaning" to a very limited and defined set of possibilities. Now, of course we could draw up an alternative way of using the same concept, with more letters, or different word sizes. However, the consequence would be that whatever is the outcome of this is less related to us than every single lifeform we know of, from other primates to the "lowliest" bacteria. We could categorically rule out any conception of children, since the sets of genomes would require totally distinct "reading systems". The only viable alternative would be to reduce redundancy, the way amino acids have been added, or added frequency, over the course of evolution. However, redundancy also is a safeguard against effects of mutations -if the mutation doesn't make a difference, then there can be no harmful effect. So if we reduce redundancy, we increase susceptibility to mutations.
*All the mechanisms listed by Merovingian above exist, of course. But they exist as part of a complex network of regulatory mechanisms that makes it practically impossible to say "Well, if we throw this switch, then this, and only this will happen". The effect is illustrated by the fact that most of these mechanisms can also be involved in [[Wikipedia:Carcinogenesis|Carcinogenesis]]. So repercussions of fiddling here are not limited, but can in fact be quite major. This leads to the key problem I am trying to address:
While we can hypothesize all we want about possible mechanisms for the cancer cure to work, or about how cylons work, the fact is that our choices are chiefly between which parts of what we see is plausible. If we take a lot of what we see about the Cylons as actually working, we'd have to reject the notions that they cannot be told apart from humans and that they are capable of procreation with humans. If we take the latter for granted, than the ways in which their physiology and their genes can differ from ours is severely limited. We are what we are and who we are because of a finely tuned system. Even minor changes to that system are likely to have major effects. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 06:21, 11 February 2006 (EST)

==Genetics==
1.) My impression was that baltar was sketching schematic representations of human and cylon antigens, not individual nitrogenous bases (which wouldn't really be relevant for the treatment he was proposing)

2.) Are you certain the hexagonal image is of uracil, and not another [[Wikipedia:pyrimidine|pyrimidine]] such as [[Wikipedia:cytosine|cytosine]] or [[Wikipedia:thymine|thymine]]? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:20, 2 February 2006 (EST)

:2) Indeed. I've been going over my Human Molecular Genetics notes, and this is the only possibility. The difficulty you may have encountered is that Baltar is holding it upside down. Actually, I made a drawing of what we see "on screen" in the commercial (unfortunately, BSGwiki doesn't seem to want to upload bmp images; sorry).

:There is a very long line coming of of a Nitrogen; this represent an R-linkage (that is, where the base connects to deoxyribose). ''Traditionally'', (by Earth international convention) the R-linkage making Nitrogen is placed at the bottom of the diagram; plus, Baltar drew it backwords, but that's just viewing it from a different angle and changes none of the linkages. This is where we see "NH" on the bottom of that pic of Uracil I have; the H gets dropped and the N forms the R-linkage. I spent a long time trying to figure out which one it was before I determined that it is definately Uracil; none of the others. You can see this more clearly in the page on [[Wikipedia:Nucleotide|Nucleotide]]: the one we see has no NH2 subgroup linked to a carbon in the ring, so it's definately not Cytosine (Cytosine has 3 N's, Uracil and Thymine, only 2). It can't be thymine, because it has no H3C subgroup branching off of the ring. It actually looks exactly like the image of Uracil on the Nucleotide article.

:1)****My entire point, Farago, is that Ron D. Moore stated in his podcast that ORIGINALLY, Baltar *was* making all of thse comparisons of DNA, stem cells, etc. and stating how Cylon **DNA** is different. However, he got in a panic, because as we all know he is nervous to use Technobabble (often, this is a very good thing) but this time he overreacted; now all of the messageboards are filled with complaints of "This wasn't explained well enough; he just said it's "blood was special" and drew two overlapping squares; this doesn't explain anything". '''In scenes that they deleted, Baltar goes into detail explaining what's different about it, comparing DNA structure, etc. ''' Hopefully, we will see it in the DVD when these scenes are released. ''' However, (as sometimes happens) footage from deleted scenes was used to make the commercial for the episode, and because I taped it off of tv (as opposed to downloading it) I was able to pause it and look at this.''' Really, they just cut a *LOT* of stuff out; it's not *JUST* "antigents"; the script for this scene was butchered in the editing room, and the explanation is actually a lot more complex than just "it's blood has no antigens"; Antigens for ''what''? Antigens are things that trigger an immune response; in that sense, '''this isn't that much different from the O-[[Wikipedia:blood type|blood type]]. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:16, 2 February 2006 (EST)

::I'm [[Talk:Epiphanies#Cancer Therapy|well aware]] of that. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:24, 2 February 2006 (EST)

== Speed check ==

In the section "Distances and Speeds..." two figures fro the speed of light are quoted in as many paragraphs. The first is correct: 3x10^8 meters/second. The second figure is 54x10^10 meters/second. Is this the speed of light in miles/second instead? (as the answer is given in miles/hour)

As a postscript regarding why the ''Galactica'' hasn't jumped in 20 years, the battlestar could have been part of a home or system fleet, much like Great Britain had an English Channel Fleet during the Napoleonic Wars. [[User:Sentinel75|Sentinel75]] 23:18, 10 February 2006 (EST)

:Hi, Sentinel. The figures you saw was the calculation of ''distance = speed(time)''. To avoid error, the travel time is converted from hours (5.5) to seconds. The speed of light is converted from miles/sec (186,282) to meters/sec. Once that's done, the result (distance) is in meters. Since ''Battlestar Wiki's'' audience is primarily American, I presented the result converted into miles as well.

:Your idea on ''Galactica's'' need not to jump in 20 years is pretty good as you've reminded me of my ''Hornblower'' readings and historical information. I will add it to the page as an additional bullet. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:16, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:http://www.google.com/search?q=speed+of+light+in+meters%2Fsec Switch the units around and it still doesn't make sense. (m/s)/s = m/s ? '''no''' That formula is gibberish. I'll fix it. The original mistake happens to give the right answer because 5.4*10^11 is the result of the prior calculation in meters. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 23:37, 21 February 2006 (EST)

:Hi All,
There seems to be a ''plot hole'' in the miniseries, or you need to recalculate your ETA: Colonial Heavy 798 went to Galactica alone, but it was supposed to be escorted back by Apollo in an old Mark II Viper. So while the flight to Galactica could have taken 5.5 hours, at max acceleration, which was made possible by Colonial Heavy 798´s artificial gravity, the flight back would´ve taken much much longer, because Apollo´s Viper isn´t equipped with artificial gravity! (that´s apparent from what starbuck tells the nuggets in "act of contrition").
--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 9:21 08 August 2006 (GMT +1)
:Technically, her comment only implies that there is no artificial gravity in combat. Maybe it's too energy-expensive to use in combat; it would be counteracting about 562g for the miniseries trip, so using a lot of power is not unreasonable. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 04:23, 8 August 2006 (CDT)
::Hmm, that opens the question what the difference between combat and non-combat mode power-consumption in vipers would be. I don´t think that there would be any difference. But I am willing to speculate, that colonial technology may have invented some kind of device which counteracts high acceleration g-force force ONLY when it is aligned with the dorsal angle of the viper, so that it is useless when the fighter yaws, turns, banks and slides.
--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 9:55 10 August 2006 (GMT +1)

== Cylon missiles have contrails in space ==
[[Image:cylon_missile.jpg|thumb|right]]
This is impossible. I think. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 18:27, 13 March 2006 (CST)
:They must have some exhaust stream, but not the puffy contrail visible there. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:14, 13 March 2006 (CST)
::I don't think that any exhaust would be visible because the exhuast is expanding rapidly and in space there is no resistance to that expansion. The density of the exhuast would quickly become so low that it would not be visible. They prolly just thought it would look better, but it bugs me anyway. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 19:34, 13 March 2006 (CST)
:::I agree with you Bp, it bugs me too... In fact the fact that there are still sound effects for things going on in space REALLY BUGS ME!!! (Like when a Cylon Raider flies by) Before the Mini-Series I could have sworn I read that they were going to be faithful to science in that there wouldn't be "sound" in space. Perhaps I was wrong. I would really like to see a science fiction show ditch the sound effects in space. --[[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 20:14, 13 March 2006 (CST)
::::If I remember correctly, RDM in the commentary for the Mini the he was going to have no sound in space but NBC forced him to change. As a compromise, he made it muted. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:18, 13 March 2006 (CST)

==Lagoon nebula==
Loving the image of the milky way labelled with stuff but it wasnt made by anyone here and it links to imageshack so i think we should recreate it ourselves? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:51, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:Since I don't know who owns that graphic, yes, having a reproduction of it (who can copyright a ''galaxy''?) would be really great to have in case the link is lost. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:52, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::([[Wikipedia:SCO Group|SCO]] might try.) That'd be great! It'd be much better to have a for sure creative commons version for display purposes. (Maybe a small thumbnail of it in the article, instead of the link, once it's "ours.") Is Merc on the job? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:05, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:::[[:Image:Locations in BSG galaxy.jpg|This?]] Its not perfect so ill try and find some more exact locations for earth etc, im not an astro physics dude or astronomer lol --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 15:35, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Science in the Re-imagined Series/Archive 1

2006-08-08T07:10:00Z

Rafale: /* Speed check */

For an archived earlier discussion thread prior to February 8, 2006, [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Talk:Science_in_the_Re-imagined_Series&oldid=30324 click here.]

==Artificial Gravity==
Be careful not to confuse Naturalistic SF with Hard SF. They have little to do with one another. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:09, 9 December 2005 (EST)
:Of course, in fact, they are quite opposite, but NSF takes a few elements from hard SF, though not in the extreme that hard SF defines itself. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:18, 9 December 2005 (EST)
Another wrinkle in the whole artificial gravity can of worms: The ability to manipulate gravity fields opens the door to many other technologies, too. For example, a rudimentary tractor beam could be constructed by using your artificial gravity field to pull objects toward your ship. The reverse is probably possible -- using it to repel objects and projectiles for a sort of a deflector shield. Since the Colonials have none of these abilities and yet have apparently had artificial gravity for a long time (before the contruction of the Galactica), it stands to reason that whatever means they use to generate gravity is severely limited. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 11:45, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Welcome to the Wiki, Zeratul. I agree; this limits whatever they use to gravity simulators rather than generators, given their power limitations and storyline limits. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:06, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::Thanks for the welcome, Spencerian. Long time reader first time contributor here. :) Another thing to consider is that whatever they use for gravity continues to work even when main power and control is lost, as in [[Valley of Darkness]]. Likely it would have a separate power source and controls as the life support systems do, meaning it's either passive or doesn't require much power to operate.
:::It's difficult to see, but in the miniseries the doomed botanical freighter seems to have domes on both the top and bottom of the ship, which would imply they have the ability to maintain several different gravitational vectors within a ship.
:::Another good reference would be Boomer's raptor in the miniseries, when she powers it down for the approach to Caprica. I think they were strapped in at the time though, so the gravity may or may not have been shut off.
:::I suspect, though, that this is something that will never really be explained but rather remain a plot-driven convenience. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 14:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)

==Sublight vs. FTL==
The fact that Colonial One, an FTL-capable ship, made its way from Caprica to Galactica at Sublight tells us something else - 5.5 hours of engine burn consume less energy than a hyperspace jump to cover the same distance. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:58, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:Not necessarily. Two reasons why--first, FTL might not have been an option: either it was illegal, seen as too dangerous for travel within a system, deemed too uncomfortable for passengers, or pilots simply weren't trained to calculate a jump, any of which are potentially valid given Tigh's comment that it had been 20 years since a jump. Of course, that may raise a question as to why the drive was installed in the first place. (Regulations? Holdover from the first war?) Secondly, it seems unrealistic that it would take more energy to jump that small distance than to burn the fuel because the entire fleet can jump like 230 times in a row ([[33]]) without any refueling problems or the like. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 21:19, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:I think that FTL flight is generally quite disconcerting to passengers, judging from Cally's take on it when we see ''Galactica'' make its first Jump in the Miniseries. So, sublight is preferable in most instances. I cannot determine from any episodes whether the fuel consumption is more or less when going at sublight over FTL. The comfort level is the most likely reason. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:52, 1 January 2006 (EST)

==Nukes==
If the energy density of [[Tylium]] is so much greater than fissile materials and has the added benefit of producing no fallout, and requiring no sophisticated trigger mechanism, why do the Colonials use nuclear warheads on their missiles rather than tylium bombs? Nuclear fallout has desirable side effects against organic targets, which explains Cylon use thereof, but what advantage does it offer human forces?

:(Obviously, in real life it's a question of storytelling:
:"For instance, in the Galactica mini-series, when the Cylons attack the colonists, they attack them with thermonuclear weapons. They don't attack them with lasers and photon torpedoes, and strange things that don't exist.
:"When you see a planet nuked, and you see those mushroom clouds, and hear about the destruction of entire cities by nuclear weapons, that is a much more terrifying and frightening idea than if you're saying fifteen thousand photon torpedoes were launched at Caprica. One is real and one is not." [http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/news/cult/2004/02/20/9599.shtml]
:"There would not be 'photon torpedoes' but instead nuclear missiles, because nukes are real and thus are frightening." [http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/magazine/17GALACTICA.html]
:"We use nukes. And these days, that’s truly scary. You use photon torpedoes and the audience goes 'oh, okay. shrug.'" [http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA513174.html?display=Top+Stories]) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:09, 11 December 2005 (EST)

:Nukes have the desireable side effect of creating an electromagnetic pulse which disrupts all (currently) known forms of electronics. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 02:41, 8 January 2006 (EST)
: And a side note, now that I think of it. Considering the supposed rarity of tylium, Nukes are also much easier to produce and much less of a waste of a valuable resource. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:12, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::You hit the nail on the head, Durandal. If you can, work up what you just said and add it to the article! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:15, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::: Does not really fit in this article, whithout generating a new section for such a point. If anyone has a better idea for placement, I'm all ears. [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:25, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:My own thoughts on the subject are A) Tylium is somewhat rare so it is difficult to mass produce nuclear warheads, but more importantly B) Baltar said that detonating a nuclear warhead near Tylium would "render it inert", not create a chain reaction. I think that Tylium must be "reactive/unstable" enough that it's a good fuel source (moreso than just Plutonium), however, it probably has the chemical property that it is very difficult to produce an explosive uncontrollable chain reaction with it. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:13, 8 January 2006 (EST)

::That would disagree with the extremely large tylium explosion seen at the end of "The Hand of God". I prefer Durandal's explanation. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:24, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:::In Ricimer's defense, the explosion was caused by the precursor, the refined but unprocessed component that forms the fuel later. Precursor is more unstable or explosive than the fuel. There are chemicals throughout the Periodic Table that release tremendous energies, more so than plutonium. The problem is the process of controlling it. Else, hydrogen would be our fuel of choice for everything: common, cheap, and leaves a benign by-product. For the Colonies, tylium was their answer. I disagree that tylium is rare, although I think it is hard to find; the Fleet's luck in finding one rock of it also implies that a little tylium goes an awfully long way, but mining and processing it is a real bitch. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:40, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Landings & Gravity ==

Unless I am completely mistaken, aside from whatever may be the 'standard' artifical gravity source aboard Galactica, it is explicitly stated that the actual landing pads in the flight pods rely upon magnitism to hold craft in place en route to the hanger.
:"Viper Four-five-zero, skids down, mag-lock secure." (Kelly to Apollo upon touchdown aproximately 22 minutes into the miniseries)
[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 02:56, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:Correct. On the flight deck, magnetism is used to secure landing Vipers. But in the hangar deck and manned areas of the ship, something else is used, since the humans (and many other virtually non-magnetic items in CIC and elsewhere) are kept from floating. It's an unexplained conumdrum that right now is just a writing convenience. If the article appears to be vague in that topic, do modify it. I created and generated much of this article, and sometimes I can get too wordy and the point gets muddled. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:19, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:: I actually wrote this bit in response to note 2, which states it as a possibility as opposed to cannon-fact. I'm not quite sure HOW to rewrite it, unfortunately... [[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 13:23, 8 January 2006 (EST)

== Expensive claim... ==

I find the recent expense claim [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|uncitable]] at best. There's absolutely no indication either way that financial expense played into utilizing FTL Jump technology in BSG. Therefore, unless we can get someone to point out where this info came from, I vote for its removal. Also, just because ''Galactica'' didn't perform a jump in 20 years doesn't really mean that it is normal for Colonail ships (military or otherwise) to rely on sublight travel alone. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:15, 1 February 2006 (EST)

:I read it differently - the statement seems to infer expense from the fact that FTL travel is not used frequently, not vice-versa. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:23, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::I think they just didn't do it, because why risk the (albeit very very small) safety concerns of warping through space? (a wrong calculation and we could wind up in the sun", etc.) Remember, they really have FTL drive for two reasons: 1) It's a holdover from the Exodus (''theory'' but not established fact and frankly I don't believe that), 2) they do have a "sphere of influence" beyond the 12 Colonies, not full-fledged other planets, just mining-camp colonies like Troy. So that's why they put in FTL; plus it's good to have instantaneous travel. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:50, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::: It would be logical to assume that, with so many ships "up in the air", as it were, Jumping into another ship or even trade route may be a concern. I don't fully agree with the "holdover from the Exodus" theory either and it seems likely that FTL technology was put into place as a means of instantaneous transportation during wartime. (Imagine jumping out of harms way instead of fleeing from the enemy at sublight speeds; in fact, this is quite similar to ''Farscape'' and the Leviathan's ability to starburst.) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:52, 2 February 2006 (EST)

:I think the current reasons are sufficient enough; there doesn't necessarily need to be a separate bullet point about "expense," especially because it is so vague and unexplained. Is it the cost of buying fuel that's expensive? Probably not, based on what we've seen so far in terms of tylium consumption. They seem to jump quite a bit and don't need to refuel very often. (Basically, just in Hand of God, and that's after jumping constantly for weeks. I mean, they could have been distributing Galactica's tylium to the other ships, but if Galactica has ''that'' much, it can't be that exorbitant of a fuel source, particularly so in peacetime when the ships were first loaded.) Is it wear and tear on the ship that costs money to fix? Maybe, but for the fleet to have lasted this long without any ships breaking down undercuts that theory. I mean, how else do you define expense? I'm not missing something here, am I? --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 02:19, 2 February 2006 (EST)

==The Cancer Cure of Laura Roslin==

One possibility we may want to consider is that of the Humano-Cylons being party based on nanotechnology. If the Cylons have nanobots in their blood, it would explain the selective destruction of cancer cells, and the quick repair of normal cells, and how such a small amount could completely cure the disease. Additionally, a Cylon-Human hybrid would have nanobots less likely to reject a normal human's system.

It would also explain the seeming contradiction in the Humano-Cylon's nature -- that they are close enough to human that even an autoposy cannot tell them apart, and yet somehow machine enough to upload their memories and consciousness.

Though this is my personal favorite theory, there's absolutely no canonical basis for it. --[[User:zeratul|zeratul]]

:It seems that the stem cell theory was the "answer" to this, as stated in the article, now with RDM voicing in on the original explanation that was edited away or revised before filming because it was too technical. Further, your theory conflicts with the established point that Cylon and human physiology is practically identical in appearance and function down to the cellular level, implying that nanotechnology would be identifiable medically. This is supported as well since, unless such nanotech is masked to work with human physiology, Roslin's body would have an autoimmune reaction, fighting off the fetal blood like in an Rh factor reaction. Aside from the established effects of the fetal blood used, only Baltar's [[Cylon detector]] can accurately discern Cylon from human. Funny, I just listened today to an article on National Public Radio that says that fetal stem cells "leak" from the placenta of each baby (born or unborn) into the mother's body, which become an "elite" (but small) force of cells that aid in protecting or repairing damage or disease in the mother for years, according to early research. I ''have'' to get that link to this article--it is very ''apropos'' here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:17, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Yes, I agree with you that the stem cells are the official explanation. I'm not sure if I buy it, however, as real-life stem cells can't spontaneously cure something as complex as cancer just by injecting them. Baltar's been wrong before. Yes, yes, genetically engineered Cylons are a possibility (but wouldn't that be easily detectable at the Colonials' current level of technology?). I guess for now we'll have to write it off as a "magical" effect of hybrids... Sigh :)
::If the nanomachines were small enough they wouldn't be visible even under a microscope (haven't seen an [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scanning_electron_microscope SEM] on the show yet), and could probably be designed to not show up to chemical tests as well -- especially if they were programmed to actively mask themselves. Again, probably not what they'll go with, just a theory I've been kicking around. --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 14:43, 8 February 2006 (EST)

With the caveat that I haven't seen the episode yet:why would Roslin's body have an autoimmune reaction when nanotechnology is used? In any case, the stem cell theory doesn't work. If Roslin indeed was at death's door, the damage to the healthy tissue is too great for stem cells to repair that in the necessary time frame. Protein needs to by synthesized, cells need to divide, etc. Plus, while stem cells can theoretically be used to create any organ, they still need the programming, which is not given in an adult body. They can be programmed in vitro, but they won't just form a liver if you inject them into the liver -the hormone gradients that existed during embryogenesis don't exist anymore, likewise the angiogenetic factors aren't around that would cause the cells to be supplied with the necessary nutrients. Although, ironically, the tumor might have spilled enough of those. And even if you get the cells to grow in the right places, you'd have to get them to stop growing as well, otherwise you've just replaced one cancer with another etc. etc... I think the cancer cure is just as much dramatic license as the "cylon and human physiology being identical". Given the silica pathways and the computer connectivity, there are quite obvious differences. I think that RDM did well to cut out the science since it is meaningless to the layperson and would likely have resulted in rolling eyes with people with expertise in the field. It is a contrived plot device, and trying to explain it away is likely to be futile. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 15:18, 8 February 2006 (EST)

As an added point, I consider the issue with fetal cells as repairmen in the mother to be heavily overstated in the article here. The NPR contribution merely lists it as a hypothesis. There is no "appear", and there is several problems with at least the written part of the NPR contribution: It suggests that the fetal cells "could behave" as stem cells. However, there's more cells in a fetus than just stem cells, and in any case, at this stage, the cells aren't totipotent, i.e. capable of making ANYthing anymore, they have already diversified. It takes early embryonic stem cells for totipotency. I am also sceptical as far as these cells remaining "for life" goes: They'd be good candidates as a cancer ''cause'' rather than cure if they do. The other point is, as I tried to explain above, that these cells turn into specific tissue not just as an execution of an internal program, but as a response to external stimuli, such as hormones secreted by other cells in the vicinity. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 15:36, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:True, Oliver, the NPR article is actually educated speculation (hypothesis at best). As someone whose medical/biology experience is that of a layman, I welcome you, both to the wiki, as well as to improve in the scientific explanations on this page. Interesting stuff you noted there. We know, of course, that this is all dramatic license, but for writers to go the extra mile and make an attempt to base the cure on some credible level of scientific theorem on the topic (unlike *cough*Star Trek*cough*some shows I know) is a notable thing. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:31, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::Well, at least StarTrek made SOME good choices about their technobabble: Knowing fully well that any prediction on computer power and storage capacity would likely be outdated even before the end of the series, they invented totally fictious parameters. Likewise with many other things. While this still leaves the opportunity to violate basic laws of physics, at least it prevents the "no way it could work that way" effect. There's a reason people study for science, and a reason scientists specialize: It's such a vast field that it's practically impossible to know one's way around everything. So a writer has the choice between winging it or hiring a huge staff of scientists and engineers who give him some well-founded speculation on how things could possibly be explained. That ain't gonna fly, obviously, so one way or the other of winging it will have to do for most productions. Now of course a writer can pick up the latest newspaper articles he read and implement them, but the problem is that most newspaper articles on scientific issues aren't precisely written by people with a grasp of the field either. What's worse, even most scientists don't really concern themselves with the theoretic bases of a solid standard of evidence. Alas, this is especially true in the medical field, where people who went to med school do a lot of research while, unlike people who studied sciences, they could grab little scientific theory at least implicitly. Or, to point at something that bugs folks like me quite regularly: If an M.D. has one patient who shows strange symptoms or responds to an unusualy therapy, he happily submits a publication that goes by the type "case report". If, say, a molecular biologist in the biomedical field hears of such an incident, he will at first glance attribute it to a combination of factors valid for that patient only and dismiss it as anecdotal until he hears of a significant number of cases showing some specific pattern and statistical relevance. Which is why especially in this field, going by mainstream press publications is like tangoing through a minefield. If you comb the literature with fine enough a comb, you will come across plenty of "miracle" cases. However, hold a magnifying glass of stringent scientific standards of evidence at them and they go up in hot air. (Background: I'm currently on the last lap of a Ph.D. in the cancer research field, working on new diagnostic methods.) --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 19:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::No, it is ridiculous to say that Star Trek handled technobabble well. That's why we call it technobabble. OTHER than that one point: they realized that computer power would increase so exponentionally by the 24th century that they just made up non-real units ("kiloquads", etc). '''Otherwise, it was laughable. Listen to RDM''' when he's talking about how Levar Burton seemed kind of good at spouting it off in season 1, so they just gave ''all of it to him''. Now, to understand my reaction, I actually watch TNG repeats pretty much every other day. Just finished watching the end of "A Matter of Perspective"; yikes. Crazy technobabble (well, the signal bounced off of some mirrors, but it was so powerful, that when reversed it must have acted like a laser beam" etc. etc.)--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:36, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::Please cite where I said that Star Trek handled technobabble well. You will have difficulties doing so. I suggest you stop just slamming everything you don't like and stick to the facts. The simple fact that you don't like a solution doesn't make it "technobabble" per se, nor does taking any odd scientific hypothesis as truth make something good drama. If you get stomach cramps watching TNG, why do you watch it 'every other day'? --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

::::"Well, at least StarTrek made SOME good choices about their technobabble" seems to heavily imply this position. And it's the only thing on.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:18, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:Humanoid Cylon physiology does not contain "nanomachines"; human cells are also machines, if bio-chemical ones. What the Cylons appear to have done is to have artificially developed the genetic code for an artificial organism which is mostly like humans, but has had certain "upgrades" to it's DNA. I've seen nothing to even come close to speculation that they use "nanomachiens"; this verges into Star Trek ''Borg, Seven of Nine-esque'' [[technobabble]], (shudder). And...no, wait...(''shudder''). Sorry, lots of bad memories. Well, It's just needlessly complicated for this show and I don't think they'd stoop to that level. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 16:42, 8 February 2006 (EST)
::Well, the thing is, it's a huge difference whether it's a biochemical machine or not. The human immune system is very efficient in fighting foreign "biochemical machines" in that it can recognize proteins that aren't part of the body. We know that some nonbiological materials such as graphite or teflon can also trigger an immune response, but this can easily be avoided by using different material. In an ideal scenario (not given here), nanorobots could even simply be coated with "self" proteins and be waved through by the immune system. There's a whole lot of literature on nanomedicine prospects at http://www.nanomedicine.com/index.htm including entire books for free, or, for the less ambitious, the FAQ at http://www.foresight.org/Nanomedicine/NanoMedFAQ.html. And frankly, as a molecular biologist, I shudder at "upgrades" to DNA. A system that can give us everything from archaeobacteria to humans has already demonstrated that it is extremely flexible and yet efficient. I have a bit of an impression that "technobabble" is whatever solution one doesn't like ;) --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 19:29, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::And, as a genetics major, I can tell you that quite a lot can be done with DNA; right now it's like flying a plane in the first decade of the 20th century; not impossible, but very hard. However, that doesn't mean that ''in theory'', such advances are impossible. Given enought time it could be done. '''Further''', you didn't really address the question. You just meandered around spouting off a lot of information on "nanomachines" without really explaining their practicality or applicability to this situation. And "a system already demonstreated this it is extremely flexible and efficient"....er, this isn't a rebutal. You just made a long sentence stating that "yup, that's DNA for ya", but that specific sentence doesn't actually address the issue of nanomchines, genetic engineering, etc. at all. Please get back on topic. We are not fooled by lots of information being thrown at us and can tell when it lacks actual substance. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 23:41, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::: *sigh* I should have posted when I first read this, but figured everyone else could see what was going on. Apparently not. RiciMerovingian, please calm a moment. I think you jumped to the worst possible conclusion, rather than giving the benefit of the doubt. What I read as having occured is that Oliver misunderstood the statement about "updates to DNA" as meaning that the fundamental nature of DNA had been upgraded. I don't think he was intentionally obfuscating the topic with terminology that might be over a layman's head in order to "win". I think he was just confused.

:::: Anyway, what was actually meant, as ''I'' read it, was that the DNA that makes one human has been altered in Cylons to have certain upgrades, not that they have better DNA (such that it is not, really, DNA), but that their DNA is almost human, except enccoded to be, say, more resiliant to diseases, quicker healing in the case of physical damage and (as an example of an "upgrade" I'd personally skip, if I were them) unable to procreate. '''Anyway''', hopefully now everyone sees where we got off track, we can put unpleasantness behind and backup to where we were still on topic. --[[User:Day|Day]] 00:28, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::Day, the problem is that if their genes were in some way "better" as in more efficient etc. this could be easily discerned with 20th century level technology and could only go so far before the organism is not compatible with human organisms anymore as in clearly being recognized as foreign by the immune system and possibly even incompatible for procreation. In any case, it would also mean that physiology is far from identical. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

::::Merovingian, I realize you didn't like what I said, but claiming that my statements lacked substance when in fact, I made specific arguments and referenced them is quite off. I very much addressed the issue: You stated "human cells are also machines", implying that nanomachines would have no significantly different properties, which is plain false. I also explained further up why stem cells are not viable as an explanation. I never actually said that nanomachines are, in fact pointing out that the event was pure dramatic license. I simply rebutted the objections about nanomachines. As for lacking substance, ''as a genetics major, I can tell you that quite a lot can be done with DNA; right now it's like flying a plane in the first decade of the 20th century; not impossible, but very hard'' is devoid of any. It's simply a claim "I know better", without stating what it actually is you think you know nor whether it is actually supported by anyone else. Genetic engineering is no "upgrade of DNA". I suggest you decide what your concrete arguments are and support them and live with the fact that while you may not like the concept of nanomachines, it is far from technobabble. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 03:06, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::So called OliverH: A) No, you just threw around a lot of jargon, but after reading your penultimate entry, I realized you hadn't said anything of actual substance.
:::::B) I will ''elaborate'': When I say "The human cell is also a machine", this in NO WAY implies agreement with "nanomachines", as you state above. Some people (viewers who don't watch scifi or know even basic biology; not us) are stuck on the fact that "Cylons are machines!" and think of them as metal/plastic/silicon, and organic life as "tissue" etc. However, from my bio stuff, when I look at a human cell, I see a vastly complex clock of ATP, glucose, amino acids...an interacting mechanism of molecules of carbon chains, etc. Could not an artificial mechanism functioning along similar principles be created which was self sustaining?
:::::C) At no time did I say genetic engineering was an "upgrade of DNA", layman. I didn't want to spout off on a lot of terminology that would simply be lost in a quick conversation. Putting words in my mouth, you are. Genetic engineering isn't an "upgrade" of "DNA"; ''genomes'', on the other hand, can have new sequences added, etc. (The word "upgrade" implies some semi-magical, Chemical X-style super-charge). What I had in mind with the Cylons was that ''' The DNA sequence itself is just a starting point:''' what about [[Wikipedia:Imprinting_(genetics)|Genomic Imprinting]] in conjunction with [[Wikipedia:DNA_methylation|DNA methylation]], possibly even veering into [[Wikipedia:Epigenetic_inheritance|Epigenetic Inheritance]]? Long story short: DNA in eukaryotes (for example, humans) is coated in a sheath of histone proteins. Changes in these can change gene expression. More importantly, adding a ''methyl'' group to a section of DNA can determine how it is ''expressed''. Different amino acids then interact in different combinations than before. The human genome codes for many times more proteins than there is DNA coding for specific aa's. But using alternative splicing of mRNA, and altering the expression of DNA coding for different combinations of amino acids....things get a lot more interesting. We don't even fully understand how the 'histone code' works very well. That is my point: When I think of the Cylons I think of them using normal DNA, not nanomachines, but using like the English alphabet: there are 26 letters, and using these I can express all sorts of ideas on BattlestarWiki. These same 26 characters can also be used in a book like ''A Brief History of Time'', to create a new Quantum Theory or something; far more complex than the simple messages I might use on AIM or something....'''But using the same basic building blocks''' of Carbon, Nitrogen, Hydrogen, Oxygen. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:35, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::: Merv... *sigh* What's the point of comments like "So called OliverH" and directing "layman" at him? In regards to the former, one could equally assert that you're "so called" Merovingian or that I'm "so called" Day. These are handles, nicknames and pseudonyms we use on the ''internet''. Implying that someone's name here is somehow false seems either (because I know you're not dumb) disingenuous, juvenile or irrelevant, depending on interpretation. The latter of my examples seems only to be of the juvenile sort of comment. It's name calling, basically. And, before you start, don't attempt to say you were being honest as some kind of defense. With words like "layman" it's all a matter of perspective and I think it's clear from the general tone of your post that it was intended as a jab. Now... would the '''both of you''' (OliverH, included) calm down and not ''aim'' your posts at each other as if they were some kind of ballistae or something? It ''is'' possible to disagree with someone and not call them names. I have done it before. ''Even'' on the internet. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:31, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:::::::Sorry about that; I was in full-on Monty Python mode (French Castle: "So-called Arthur-King!", etc. etc. Yes they're all made up screenames; bit of (poor) internet humor I never get over). As for "layman", yes, even I thought that was a little too over the top, I must admit; just that he derided my ability to understand any of this, so I then responded by posting links to all of the things I was talking about in detail, etc. Unlike "Frackface" or something, "layman" implies levels of relatives knowledgibility, etc. Probably shouldn't have used that, sorry. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:49, 9 February 2006 (EST)

Ok, I'll try to simply restate the points since they seem to have been misunderstood and misrepresented consistently.
*I have no opinion as to how anything DOES work in this part of the story, mainly because I think that there is no explanation for it other than dramatic license -no matter what RDM says. He studied political sciences, his knowledge of natural science is -as many comments show- quite limited.
*Nanomachines aren't technobabble. They are a means to an end that is being heavily pursued by researchers as we write these pages. As the books I linked above show, in parallel to manufacturing obstacles including logistics being solved, people are anticipating possible medical uses and strategies to overcome obstacles in the achieving of the actual effect. They are pure, honest-to-god hard science-fiction, and only in that as of now, our clean room nanotechnology is just in development.
*Stem cells have a big advantage: They can do anything a regular cell can do. Stem cells also have a big disadvantage: They can do anything a regular cell can do. From that spectrum of possibilities arrives the problem of regulation. And regulation is a pain. The more your tool can do, the more you have your work cut out for you that it does specifically what you want it to do and not something else. Especially in the body, where a whole lot of other signals that the cell is equipped to listen to because it ''is'' a cell, it would be next to impossible to have the cells follow a specific course of action. Nanomachines on the other hand are a)specialists and b)oblivious to the signalling by hormones or other subtance gradients unless specifically designed to respond to them.
*Merovingians comments regarding using DNA like the english alphabet have a couple of problems: As Merovingian states, the english alphabet has 26 letters. The DNA alphabet has four. It's not an issue of the alphabet alone, however, but also of word size. The word size in the English language is variable, meaning a whole lot of different words can be constructed. The DNA word size is fixed at three. This limits the "meaning" to a very limited and defined set of possibilities. Now, of course we could draw up an alternative way of using the same concept, with more letters, or different word sizes. However, the consequence would be that whatever is the outcome of this is less related to us than every single lifeform we know of, from other primates to the "lowliest" bacteria. We could categorically rule out any conception of children, since the sets of genomes would require totally distinct "reading systems". The only viable alternative would be to reduce redundancy, the way amino acids have been added, or added frequency, over the course of evolution. However, redundancy also is a safeguard against effects of mutations -if the mutation doesn't make a difference, then there can be no harmful effect. So if we reduce redundancy, we increase susceptibility to mutations.
*All the mechanisms listed by Merovingian above exist, of course. But they exist as part of a complex network of regulatory mechanisms that makes it practically impossible to say "Well, if we throw this switch, then this, and only this will happen". The effect is illustrated by the fact that most of these mechanisms can also be involved in [[Wikipedia:Carcinogenesis|Carcinogenesis]]. So repercussions of fiddling here are not limited, but can in fact be quite major. This leads to the key problem I am trying to address:
While we can hypothesize all we want about possible mechanisms for the cancer cure to work, or about how cylons work, the fact is that our choices are chiefly between which parts of what we see is plausible. If we take a lot of what we see about the Cylons as actually working, we'd have to reject the notions that they cannot be told apart from humans and that they are capable of procreation with humans. If we take the latter for granted, than the ways in which their physiology and their genes can differ from ours is severely limited. We are what we are and who we are because of a finely tuned system. Even minor changes to that system are likely to have major effects. --[[User:OliverH.|OliverH.]] 06:21, 11 February 2006 (EST)

==Genetics==
1.) My impression was that baltar was sketching schematic representations of human and cylon antigens, not individual nitrogenous bases (which wouldn't really be relevant for the treatment he was proposing)

2.) Are you certain the hexagonal image is of uracil, and not another [[Wikipedia:pyrimidine|pyrimidine]] such as [[Wikipedia:cytosine|cytosine]] or [[Wikipedia:thymine|thymine]]? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:20, 2 February 2006 (EST)

:2) Indeed. I've been going over my Human Molecular Genetics notes, and this is the only possibility. The difficulty you may have encountered is that Baltar is holding it upside down. Actually, I made a drawing of what we see "on screen" in the commercial (unfortunately, BSGwiki doesn't seem to want to upload bmp images; sorry).

:There is a very long line coming of of a Nitrogen; this represent an R-linkage (that is, where the base connects to deoxyribose). ''Traditionally'', (by Earth international convention) the R-linkage making Nitrogen is placed at the bottom of the diagram; plus, Baltar drew it backwords, but that's just viewing it from a different angle and changes none of the linkages. This is where we see "NH" on the bottom of that pic of Uracil I have; the H gets dropped and the N forms the R-linkage. I spent a long time trying to figure out which one it was before I determined that it is definately Uracil; none of the others. You can see this more clearly in the page on [[Wikipedia:Nucleotide|Nucleotide]]: the one we see has no NH2 subgroup linked to a carbon in the ring, so it's definately not Cytosine (Cytosine has 3 N's, Uracil and Thymine, only 2). It can't be thymine, because it has no H3C subgroup branching off of the ring. It actually looks exactly like the image of Uracil on the Nucleotide article.

:1)****My entire point, Farago, is that Ron D. Moore stated in his podcast that ORIGINALLY, Baltar *was* making all of thse comparisons of DNA, stem cells, etc. and stating how Cylon **DNA** is different. However, he got in a panic, because as we all know he is nervous to use Technobabble (often, this is a very good thing) but this time he overreacted; now all of the messageboards are filled with complaints of "This wasn't explained well enough; he just said it's "blood was special" and drew two overlapping squares; this doesn't explain anything". '''In scenes that they deleted, Baltar goes into detail explaining what's different about it, comparing DNA structure, etc. ''' Hopefully, we will see it in the DVD when these scenes are released. ''' However, (as sometimes happens) footage from deleted scenes was used to make the commercial for the episode, and because I taped it off of tv (as opposed to downloading it) I was able to pause it and look at this.''' Really, they just cut a *LOT* of stuff out; it's not *JUST* "antigents"; the script for this scene was butchered in the editing room, and the explanation is actually a lot more complex than just "it's blood has no antigens"; Antigens for ''what''? Antigens are things that trigger an immune response; in that sense, '''this isn't that much different from the O-[[Wikipedia:blood type|blood type]]. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:16, 2 February 2006 (EST)

::I'm [[Talk:Epiphanies#Cancer Therapy|well aware]] of that. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:24, 2 February 2006 (EST)

== Speed check ==

In the section "Distances and Speeds..." two figures fro the speed of light are quoted in as many paragraphs. The first is correct: 3x10^8 meters/second. The second figure is 54x10^10 meters/second. Is this the speed of light in miles/second instead? (as the answer is given in miles/hour)

As a postscript regarding why the ''Galactica'' hasn't jumped in 20 years, the battlestar could have been part of a home or system fleet, much like Great Britain had an English Channel Fleet during the Napoleonic Wars. [[User:Sentinel75|Sentinel75]] 23:18, 10 February 2006 (EST)

:Hi, Sentinel. The figures you saw was the calculation of ''distance = speed(time)''. To avoid error, the travel time is converted from hours (5.5) to seconds. The speed of light is converted from miles/sec (186,282) to meters/sec. Once that's done, the result (distance) is in meters. Since ''Battlestar Wiki's'' audience is primarily American, I presented the result converted into miles as well.

:Your idea on ''Galactica's'' need not to jump in 20 years is pretty good as you've reminded me of my ''Hornblower'' readings and historical information. I will add it to the page as an additional bullet. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:16, 13 February 2006 (EST)

:http://www.google.com/search?q=speed+of+light+in+meters%2Fsec Switch the units around and it still doesn't make sense. (m/s)/s = m/s ? '''no''' That formula is gibberish. I'll fix it. The original mistake happens to give the right answer because 5.4*10^11 is the result of the prior calculation in meters. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 23:37, 21 February 2006 (EST)

:Hi All,
There seems to be a ''plot hole'' in the miniseries, or you need to recalculate your ETA: Colonial Heavy 798 went to Galactica alone, but it was supposed to be escorted back by Apollo in an old Mark II Viper. So while the flight to Galactica could have taken 5.5 hours, at max acceleration, which was made possible by Colonial Heavy 798´s artificial gravity, the flight back would´ve taken much much longer, because Apollo´s Viper isn´t equipped with artificial gravity! (that´s apparent from what starbuck tells the nuggets in "act of contrition").
--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 9:21 08 August 2006 (GMT +1)

== Cylon missiles have contrails in space ==
[[Image:cylon_missile.jpg|thumb|right]]
This is impossible. I think. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 18:27, 13 March 2006 (CST)
:They must have some exhaust stream, but not the puffy contrail visible there. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:14, 13 March 2006 (CST)
::I don't think that any exhaust would be visible because the exhuast is expanding rapidly and in space there is no resistance to that expansion. The density of the exhuast would quickly become so low that it would not be visible. They prolly just thought it would look better, but it bugs me anyway. --[[User:Bp|Bp]] 19:34, 13 March 2006 (CST)
:::I agree with you Bp, it bugs me too... In fact the fact that there are still sound effects for things going on in space REALLY BUGS ME!!! (Like when a Cylon Raider flies by) Before the Mini-Series I could have sworn I read that they were going to be faithful to science in that there wouldn't be "sound" in space. Perhaps I was wrong. I would really like to see a science fiction show ditch the sound effects in space. --[[User:Cp.hayes|cp.hayes]] 20:14, 13 March 2006 (CST)
::::If I remember correctly, RDM in the commentary for the Mini the he was going to have no sound in space but NBC forced him to change. As a compromise, he made it muted. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:18, 13 March 2006 (CST)

==Lagoon nebula==
Loving the image of the milky way labelled with stuff but it wasnt made by anyone here and it links to imageshack so i think we should recreate it ourselves? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:51, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

:Since I don't know who owns that graphic, yes, having a reproduction of it (who can copyright a ''galaxy''?) would be really great to have in case the link is lost. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:52, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
::([[Wikipedia:SCO Group|SCO]] might try.) That'd be great! It'd be much better to have a for sure creative commons version for display purposes. (Maybe a small thumbnail of it in the article, instead of the link, once it's "ours.") Is Merc on the job? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:05, 28 June 2006 (CDT)
:::[[:Image:Locations in BSG galaxy.jpg|This?]] Its not perfect so ill try and find some more exact locations for earth etc, im not an astro physics dude or astronomer lol --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 15:35, 28 June 2006 (CDT)

Quotes:06 5

2006-06-05T06:35:40Z

Rafale:

[[William_Adama| Commander Adama]]: They´d better start having babies. Now. 
[[Saul_Tigh| Col. Tigh:]] Is that an order? 
--[[Miniseries|Miniseries]]

Quotes:06 4

2006-06-02T12:58:46Z

Rafale:

'''[[Six|Six]]:''' „What are you thinking?“ 
'''[[Gaius_Baltar|Dr. Baltar]]:'''(looking at [[Aaron Doral|Aaron Doral]]) „I´m thinking someone else might have to be implicated as a Cylon agent.“ 
'''Six:''' „He doens´t seem the type, and I don´t remember seeing him at any of the Cylon parties.“ 
--[[Miniseries|Battlestar Galactica - The Miniseries]]

Talk:Miniseries, Night 1/Archive 1

2006-06-02T10:09:08Z

Rafale: Unsourced: Ammo destroyed in decommissioning ceremony

==Mini-Series -> Miniseries==
Ok i've spend a little while changing all references (excluding talk pages) to [[mini-series]] and [[Mini-series]] so link correctly to [[Miniseries]]. However, there is a huge number of articles linking to the [[Mini-Series]] page as you can see [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Special:Whatlinkshere&target=Mini-Series&limit=250&offset=0 here]. Perhaps some of you lot could help out changing any references you can see to the correct [[Miniseries]]?
[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 07:21, 29 March 2006 (CST)
::I did some small pages and a few big ones for you.--[[User:Gen00b|Gen00b]] 12:50, 29 March 2006 (CST)
:::Cheers, I did a load more today too but still a lot to go, over 100 articles left linking to the wrong page --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 10:44, 1 April 2006 (CST)
::::They're not ''really'' linking to the wrong page, since mini-series redirects to miniseries. --[[User:Gen00b|Gen00b]] 10:54, 1 April 2006 (CST)
:::::Well thats them pretty much all gone. A few are still showing up but when looking at the edit code it doesnt appear that there is a reference so i dont know why that is happenening there? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 04:12, 5 April 2006 (CDT)

== Reason for Expansion ==

The [[Mini-Series#Analysis|analysis]] section needs to be expanded. I began working on it earlier, but never got around to finishing it. Obviously, anyone (including yours truly) can add their thoughts later on. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:05, 2 May 2005 (EDT)

== OK, Now It Needs to be Condensed ==

I've begun the slow process of truncating this page to help in reducing it below the 32K preferred limit as well as to make the page less cumbersome to read. Information or speculation that has been answered ''ad nauseum'' has been removed. Questions that now have answers were updated. Ancillary information available en masse from other articles was trimned and links added. I created a new page for an empty link as well.

I think the two larger sections should be reviewed further and cut down. Likewise, the dialogue and notes may stand a cut as well. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:32, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

:I'm looking into breaking down this page into some logical subarticles today. Main page links should remain fine; this will be the parent page. I want this page to look more like the episode pages in terms of plot summary, and then take the extended analysis and behind-the-scenes information to separate subarticles. More images will help as well, perhaps adding Lowdown information with behind the scenes, a long-asked for article. I will be using elements from other parent-child articles to make this work. We should be generally pleased with the results. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:18, 26 January 2006 (EST)

::I'm concerned about this. Are you convinced that it's impossible to summarize further? And if we have to split the article, I'd like to point out that Night One/Night Two is the most logical way to do so. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:04, 26 January 2006 (EST)

:::You're right; breaking it into part one and part two would be most logical. I'd rather see the behind-the-scenes, Lowdown or interview/commentary to the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)]] article, which would also reduce the clutter here and limit the analysis to the Night One/Two events and not the series birth, TOS comparisons, or background as a whole. There's also some insight from [[The Official Companion]] that can go there. I'll look at the pages and note my proposed adjustments before I dive in to ensure we're on the same page, so to speak. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:47, 26 January 2006 (EST)

== Cylon ==

I thought that the original Cylon Centurion was in the museum, not a cylon basestar. --[[User:Blacklight|Blacklight]]

:They both are. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:15, 1 October 2005 (EDT)

::Alright, I'll make the neccessary changes in the nod section then --[[User:Blacklight|Blacklight]]

== Structural Consequences ==

"That nuclear hit will come back to haunt them later; there will be consequences to what happened to the ship structurally when it took that hit"

:Are they referring to the episode [[Water]] or some other consequence not yet realized? [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 02:08, October 19, 2005 (EDT)

::Water, almost certainly. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:17, 19 October 2005 (EDT)

::I disagree in part. The water storage was above the flight pods, and Boomer's charges were planted from within, where an explosion would do the most damage since the water would magnify the shockwave. The show has not yet dealt with the fate of the starboard flight pod, which was converted into the museum but is not depressurized. Perhaps with the resources of Pegasus, Galactica will manage to reactivate the starboard flight pod--and maybe not a moment too soon if problems are still occurring from the hit on the port pod. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:02, 2 December 2005 (EST)

==Move==
Can we ''please'' move this to Miniseries or Mini-series? The intercaps are driving me insane. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:47, 14 December 2005 (EST)

: I concur. The [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/mini/updates/ SciFi Website] uses it as if it were not even a proper noun: "''Battlestar Galactica'' miniseries scheduled to air..." I think, at the least, we should move it to "Miniseries". Maybe, though, we should move it to "Miniseries (RDM)" or "Miniseries (2003-2004)". I realize there's no conflict, but there is for the seasons (which might should be "Season 1 (RDM)", etc.) and I like consistency. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:56, 17 December 2005 (EST)

::No need for (RDM), I think. "Season 1" doesn't even need it, since a TOS Season one article would be entirely redundant with the main TOS article anyway. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:05, 17 December 2005 (EST)

== "Episode" Data Template for this Article? ==

The miniseries doesn't quite fit with the elements of the new episode template, but it certainly could use it to condense all the statistics as well as make this page look like the deservedly important page that it is--in effect, "episode 0." Can we rig a unique episode table just for this article (and maybe, the TOS opener as well) to condense the data here to fit the format of the series episodes? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:49, 9 January 2006 (EST)

:Must... apply... template. Wow. The guest stars alone would crush the normal template. The TOS "episode 0" (Saga of a Star World) fit fine into that box, but it had a very small guest star list, and fit in many other ways more neatly into the "episode" box. I guess if you left off the guest stars, the other mini-series data elements would line up ok with the template. The question would remain (as it does with Saga of a Star World) what you would put on the "previous" line. I put "None" for TOS, but it could theoretically point to the series home (but that seemed redundant with the "episode of" at the top of the template. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:59, 9 January 2006 (EST)

::A quick "demo" (preview might be more precise) looked pretty good. Thanks to the gigantic TOC, the template doesn't have much of an impact on the layout, and some of the clutter at the bottom gets cleaned up. My demo lacked the Guest Stars, though (as I figured it would be overwhelming). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:11, 9 January 2006 (EST)

The one-off episode data table that Undc23 implemented looks pretty sweet. My only thought would be that any information contained in the episode data up top need not be retained in the stats section down below. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:39, 26 January 2006 (EST)

== God vs. Gods ==

I think it should be added to the "Bloopers" section that the whole Cylon "God" Vs. the Colonial "Gods" concept really hadn't been fleshed out during the miniseries, and possibly not thought up yet. No one says lines like "oh my Gods!", Adama, in his retirement speech said that in creating the Cylons they "Tried to play God" (as opposed to playing "Gods"), and when the Cylon at Ragnar Anchorage says "maybe God decided he made a mistake", Adama makes no effort to correct him (at least about their being only one God). To be fair, Starbuck does pray to the Lords of Kobal when she thinks Apollo is dead, but at best the usage is inconsistent throughout the miniseries, especially considering the big deal it is during the rest of the series. [[User:Ghost|Ghost]] 00:44, 17 February 2006 (EST)

:No. This extended into the regular series; you see, as polytheists, they could just be referring to a specific God of their choice when they swear using the sinugular "God", and as for "God" making a mistake, they kind of could view it as Zeus, etc. Point is, they as polytheists can get away with using the singular; the goof would be if the Cylons used the plural. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:25, 17 February 2006 (EST)

== Summary ==
How come there is no episode summary for this episode. I also think that this page would be better if it were split. --[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 08:12, 8 March 2006 (CST)

== Reformating this Page ==
I would like to propose the miniseries article is split into 2 separate pages. The reason for this is that it is getting too long and I got an error message recently telling me this when I tried to edit it.

I therefore propose that on page 1 we have what happened in the miniseries and on page 2 comments and analysis.

It would look like:
:Page 1
::Overview
::Backplot
::Summary (at present we don't have one)
::Questions
::Noteworthy dialogue
::Cast
::Related Topics
::External Links
:Page 2
::Analysis
::Notes
::Official Statements

Please put your comments here. If they are positive I would be happy to do the split. --[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 01:37, 12 March 2006 (CST)

:Sounds good to me. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] 08:04, 14 March 2006 (CST)

:I wish I'd noticed this last week. Wouldn't the more natural split be between night one and night two? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:14, 23 March 2006 (CST)

::This was something I'd hoped to do some weeks ago. "Night One" and "Night Two" would be more appropriate. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:54, 24 March 2006 (CST)

:::I thought the Miniseries was a single entity and as such the current layout reflects this. --[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 02:04, 9 April 2006 (CDT)

::::If it's a single entity, then it deserves to be on one page. Splitting the content across two pages arbitrarily is atrocious, no matter how big the combined page may be. However, splitting it across nights one and two would be logical and would help with length issues. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:09, 9 April 2006 (CDT)

:::::But the split wasn't abitary - page 1 describes what happened in the episode and page 2 contains notes and analysys. --[[User:Grafix|Grafix]] 03:01, 9 April 2006 (CDT)

== Template ==

What was wrong with using the normal episode template? --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 19:19, 8 April 2006 (CDT)
:Nothing in my mind. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:27, 8 April 2006 (CDT)
::The problem I found when trying to get it to work right was the "series" area. Since it was designed for Season X, Episode X of Series. The mini-series does not have a season. So I just subst the code so the whole table can be formated out, but I could edit the sections the miniseries did not need. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 19:31, 8 April 2006 (CDT)
:::That was a nice catch; the error was more subtle than I'd have guessed missing required fields was. Why didn't you just edit the template to omit the fields if they were blank, though? --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 19:51, 8 April 2006 (CDT)
::::Tried a whole bunch of combos. I think I spent a good 15 mintues on it. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 20:06, 8 April 2006 (CDT)
:::This is fixable. Shane, please don't flag substantive contributions to talk pages as minor. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:00, 9 April 2006 (CDT)

==UK Airdate==
Can someone confirm the airdate and timeslot of the UK premiere? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:08, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

== Unsourced: Ammo destroyed in decommissioning ceremony ==

Where was that mentioned in the Miniseries? This needs a source.
--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 05:09, 2 June 2006 (CDT)

Talk:FTL/Archive 1

2006-06-01T19:33:59Z

Rafale: Replacing "systems" with "technology"

==Multiple Jumps in Cylon Raider==
:''However, it is far more likely that Starbuck had to make a series of jumps back to Caprica (especially given the condition she was in upon arrival) witch would indicate that the Cylon Raiders FTL-range is not that extremely superior.''

While plausible, that's clearly ''not'' the implication of the on-screen events, IMO. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:32, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==My Big Problem With FTL==
I have a big problem with the FTL drives in the BSG universe and thats how many times they can jump before they refuel. In the episode 33, we see the fleet make over 250 consecutive jumps. Would it make sense for a 747 airliner to make that many consecutive flights w/o refueling? Fuel tanks would have to have a huge capacity to make that many jumps. Why would you design such a large fuel tank into a commercial transport like Colonial One. Every extra pound put into the vessel is one extra pound to push out of orbit. Jumping MUST require a considerable ammount of fuel or getting it wouldn't be an issue. I can understand a large fuel tank in something like a transport vessel or a mining ship, but not a starliner, its just not practical. I wouldnt normally complain about something like this, but given RDM's goal of making a 'realistic' sci-fi show, it bothers me. Are there any explinations for the capability to jump that many times?--Antagonist

I see no logical disconect in any of the things you've just stated. It all simply makes sense to me, as well as seems realistic. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:54, 18 February 2006 (EST)

::It would be like designing a 747 with a un-refueled range of a hundred thousand miles or a car with a 500 gallon gas tank. --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 13:34, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Hmm i see your point here. However it has been stated that they do have a refinery ship, and refuels have been mentioned in prev eps. I choose to believe that unseen ships rushed around during the 33 mins..In other words, Im letting that one go with a la la la :) Also do FTL's use the same fuel as the sublight engines? Or something else? --[[User:Simmons|Simmons]] 03:34, 19 February 2006 (EST)

Well, if the Cylons were tracking by radio signals from spies in "33," then the jumps are 33 light-minutes. Maybe the Colonials were intentionally making small jumps just to try to lose the Cylons. I don't really consider it likely though, if they were jumping 33 light-minutes, you would think they would notice the 33 minute attack intervals and change up the jump lengths. But if they were making short jumps in that episode, it might be the equivalent of a trip down the block, where it's conceivable to go 300 blocks without refueling. Either that or the fuel analogy being used is a poor one and we should be comparing the usage to a nuclear powered sea vessel which can go years without changing the reactor core, but that introduces problems such as the rate of reactor usage being more steady in a nuclear reactor.--[[User:Jeremias|Jeremias]] 19:14, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Tracking an FTL Jump ==

Im not sure its been mentioned anywhere in an ep, but I assume that ships can not be tracked through an FTL jump?--[[User:Simmons|Simmons]] 03:39, 19 February 2006 (EST)
:You can't track a Jump in progress, but you can discern its destination after. This happened to the Fleet as it was tracked, presumably with a hidden [[Cylon Transponder]] on the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' in the events of "[[33]]," the first series episode. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:24, 19 February 2006 (EST)

They said in the Miniseries it is impossible to track an FTL Jump. However, the Cylons have spies and stuff with transponders in the Fleet, and they can send signals which the Cylons can then detect and Jump to. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:15, 19 February 2006 (EST)

So has there been any mention of FTL communications (doesn't seem likely in light of "The Hand of God")? Otherwise, this might limit the length of the jumps to 33 light-minutes. 33 light-minutes when making jumps every 33 minutes is arduous leads to long times to cover interstellar distances. Also, it seems like something Adama or Tigh should have noticed. "We jump 33 light-minutes, they attack every 33 minutes...what a quandry." Maybe their detecting the gravitational waves a ships arrival might produce. This is dependent on gravity having a propagation speed different from c, which hasn't been adequately explored, though the assumption and indication by some preliminary experiments is that the speeds are the same. Alternatively, the Cylons have better probed FTL phenomena than the Colonials and discovered ways to track jumps.
--[[User:Jeremias|Jeremias]] 19:06, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== New Sections: "Jump Calculations" & "What happened in "Scattered"? ==

hi all,

this is my second substantial contribution to battlestarwiki. i tried to make sense
of what happened in [[Scattered|Scattered]], using good old wikipedia and my knowledge about sci-fi technology lore, especially from the works of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimov|Isaac Asimov]], to create something new.
Please let me know what you think.
--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 10:30, 1. June 2006 (GMT +1)

: Hiya. First off, if you want to do a direct html link, just use the one set of brackets and no pipe for renaming the link (<nowiki>[http://www.japanesepod101.com/ Japanese Podcast]</nowiki> renders [http://www.japanesepod101.com/ Japanese Podcast]). Second, When linking Wikipedia, you can pretend like Wikipedia is a namespace here and do this: <nowiki>[[Wikipedia:Isaac Asimov|Isaac Asimov]]</nowiki>, which will render this: [[Wikipedia:Isaac Asimov|Isaac Asimov]]. Handy trick, that last. And, thirdly, there seems to be something odd going on with yout quotes (" and "), at least the way my computer renders them. Are you using some kind of international keyboard settings or something?

: Anyway, on to the actual content. I liked it. I'm not super familiar with the BSG FTL theory, so someone else will have to double check the accuracy, but the general thrust of the additions were good. I think this illustraits one of the wonderful things about Wikis. A user like you can come in and dump content, even if it's a little rough around the edges, and others (like me) can come and polish a bit and then, viola (or cello, if you like), the article is shiney ''and'' has lots of good content. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 03:40, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks for the tip! I´m still not completely hip to all the different sorts of syntax commands there are, and that wikipedia referencing command is definetly a gem! Of course I´ll try and make my future contributions as polished as possible, so other users can actually think about the content and not the style. Ad Quotes: I was using a german QWERTZ-keyboard, but i think the reason for the funny quotes lies in my using WORD97 to write the article and then copy-pasting it into the editor provided by battlestarwiki. that means that lower case quotes were pasted as well. Gonna use wordpad or textedit next time instead.--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 11:33, 1 June 2006 (GMT +1)

::: I added a schematical diagram in "What happened in "Scattered"?" to illustrate the hypothesis. I know it´s ugly and it´s not exactly "BSG" Layout. Feel free to replace or delete if it hurts your eyes.--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 12:25, 1 June 2006 (GMT +1)

== Replacing "systems" with "technology" ==

What would you say if we replaced the term "systems", as in "colonial FTL systems" with "technology"? I believe this more accurately reflects the fact that there is probably more to FTL flight than mere technological artefacts: navigational charts, surveyors, calculation algrithms, etc...

FTL

2006-06-01T13:47:16Z

Rafale: /* Notes */ minor splleing error

==Introduction==

Acronym for Faster-than-Light. This is a term used to describe a means of astral propulsion utilized by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonials]]. The standard term for FTL travel is '''"jump."'''

The FTL drive makes interstellar travel possible for both the Colonials and [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. No longer confined to their own home solar system, the Cylons managed to avoid Colonial interference for 40 years after the [[Cylon War]] and establish their own homeworld. However, not all ships -- from small to large -- are outfitted with these drives ([[Miniseries]]). It's likely that FTL drives are not commonplace on many civilian ships because of the costs involved in using and maintaining the drive and the amount of [[tyllium|fuel]] available. For some civilian ships that travel comparatively short distances between some destinations, such as the ill-fated [[Botanical Cruiser]], FTL may simply be impractical or unnecessary.

The technology behind FTL systems is such that, providing the relevant data is known, ships can jump with a high degree of accuracy, allowing ships to rendezvous in space and even "park" in a synchronous orbit directly above a given point on a planet's surface ([[Miniseries]]). Proper FTL use even enables vessels to arrive in crowded areas, such as the middle of an asteroid field or other ships, without the risk of collision and damage ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

No specific information on the technology of an FTL drive has been given in the Miniseries or regular series. We know only that ''Galactica'' has two FTL drives, and that other smaller or civilian ships have a single drive. We also know from dialogue that the FTL drives on ''Galactica'' are "spun up", suggesting a use of electromagnetic or centrifugal energies that may serve in creating the fields or forces needed to activate the engines.

== Colonial Limitations ==

* Colonial FTL systems are not small-scale, and cannot be installed into vehicles such as the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]. They can, however, be used on vehicles the size of a [[Raptor]], which is limited to brief, short-distance jumps. Raptors can make a sequence of short FTL "hops" in a row, to reach the same destination as a capital ship with a full-sized FTL drive ([[Miniseries]]).
* Colonial FTL systems cannot be used multiple times over a long period of time, for they are prone to breakdown after excessive, repetitive use ([[33]]).
* FTL jumps can apparently induce nausea or discomfort in some people, such as [[Cally]] ([[Miniseries]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
* The wormholes generated by Colonial drive systems are limited in size; this defines the maximum size to which a colonial vessel can be built (hence the need for [[Battlestar|battlestars]] to retract their landing pods and reduce their overall cross-section prior to a jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], etc.).
* Colonial FTL systems appear to be a holdover from the [[History of the Twelve Colonies#Exodus|Exodus]] from [[Kobol]], and their current designs have been developed to meet the needs of jumping between the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], as their outposts in other [[Troy|star systems]]. Colonial FTL capabilities have defined limits, referred to as the [[Red Line]], beyond which jumps may not be possible / could result in damage to a vessel's drive system / lead to navigational inaccuracies that might put the ship at risk.
* Navigators must be careful to plan FTL jump paths so as not to get too close to planets or other large objects, as they can be dangerous ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Knowing the limitations of their own FTL drives, a team apparently led by Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] successfully refitted a [[Raptor]] with the FTL drive from a captured [[Heavy Raider]] (presumably the one used by [[Kara Thrace]] to return from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]"). They later use this drive's data (with the aid of the cooperative copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]) to coordinate a squadron of Raptors to fly back to Caprica for a rescue mission to retrieve a [[resistance (movement)|team of resistance fighters there]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Despite the accuracy of the advanced Cylon FTL drive and Valerii's aid in marking the Jumps, two Raptors do not complete the mission. One obtains corrupted Jump data and finds itself within a nebula and a undiscovered [[New Caprica|habitable planet]], and is forced to return to the Fleet. The second Raptor also gets corrupted coordinates and materializes inside a nearby mountain on the final Jump intra-atmosphere into Caprica, with a loss of ship and crew.

== Cylon Advantage ==

* Cylon FTL systems can be manufactured on a smaller scale to their Colonial equivalent, thus allowing the [[Cylon Raider]] to be outfitted with an FTL drive. ([[Miniseries]]).
* Cylon FTL drive systems are far more efficient than their Colonial equivalent. Tests with the Raider captured by the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]) demonstrated that the drive could enable the Raider to jump directly from the vicinity of [[Kobol]] back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]) - a jump completed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] during her search for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).
* The extreme ranges over which Cylon vessels can jump would indicate that Cylon navigation systems are far better integrated with their FTL system to enable such long-distance jumps to be accurately plotted.
* Given that the Cylons left Colonial space to find their own planet, it is possible that their longer-range FTL capability was created in response to a desire to be able to cover the distance between their adoptive homeworld and those of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] with a single jump.

==Background to FTL in New BSG==
In establishing the series the creators of the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] determined to keep everything within the show very "[[Naturalistic science fiction|natural]]". This means steering away from the standard clichés of television science-fiction: no bumpy-head aliens, no remarkable technology such as matter/anti-matter conversion, etc. So how is the concept of faster-than-light travel possible within this precept?

===Underpinning Theories===

[[Image:Wormhole-demo.png|thumb|FTL: "Folding Space" (credit: Wikipedia)]]
The FTL drive technology used within the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] appears to be based on the use of [[Wikipedia:Superstring Theory|Superstring Theory]] and [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] that essentially enable the "jump drive" systems to "fold" space, reducing the distance between any two points by creating a "corridor" through space that links them together (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge). Such "corridors" are allowed by the general theory of relativity; what [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] does is provide a way to change the topology of spacetime dynamically.

The use of such Wormholes is based on the tenet that space is curved. Hence the term "[[Wikipedia:Wormhole|wormhole]]", which arises from the analogy that space can be seen as an apple. A worm can travel from one side of the apple to the other in two ways:
* By crawling over the surface, or
* By burrowing through the apple (creating a "wormhole").
Obviously, the second option is considerably shorter than the first.

===Relativistic Acceleration===
A key point concerning the use of wormholes within the new Battlestar Galactica, is that they do not break the fundamental limiting factor of our universe: the speed of light. Vessels in the new Battlestar Galactica series do not accelerate to faster-than-light velocities. Rather, they use the wormhole to reduce the distance to their destination, thus giving the ''impression'' of faster-than-light travel.

This is the reason why FTL jumps are virtually instantaneous within episodes (e.g.[[33]]). It also means that the only ''direct'' form of propulsion available for vessels is generated by their [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight drive systems]]. In turn, this is why vessels exiting from a jump are seen to be travelling at the same velocity as when they committed to the jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]], etc.)

===Feasibility===
While the use of wormholes in this manner is not currently possible, work is progressing on superstring and M-Theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future. The limiting factor is the ability to generate negative energy densities, which are allowed (though severely restricted) by quantum mechanics. As such, the use of such systems again meets one of the stated desires of the the producers of the new Battlestar Galactica: not to rely on the "traditional" trappings of science-fiction that require exotic science and technology. Theoretical physicist [[Wikipedia:Kip Thorne|Kip Thorne]] has carried out extensive research into wormholes, and helped develop a scientifically-consistent means of wormhole travel used by [[Wikipedia:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] in his novel [[Wikipedia:Contact (novel)|"Contact"]] which bears a remarkable similarity to the technology employed within Battlestar Galactica.

==Jump Calculations==
Based on deduction from information gleaned in [[Scattered|Scattered]], a set of Jump Coordinates used to execute an FTL-Jump "tells" the Jump Drive to fold space along a vector of three dimensions:

*Elevation
*Rotation
*Distance

Here, the dimension of Distance would represent more than just a straight line, plotted through three-dimensional space but the amount of space curvature that the jump drive would have to fold.

A possible algorithm for jump calculations would therefore necessitate first and foremost the figuring out of the exact location of the ship, relative to its intended point of arival after the jump. This is done by identifying, fixing and triangulating several stars. {{ref|tigh}}

Next, the ship's position relative to the intended point of arrival would be [[Wikipedia:Point plotting|plotted]] on a three-dimensional [[Wikipedia:Cartesian coordinate system|Cartesian coordinate system]], using the ship as its [[Wikipedia:Origin (mathematics)|point of origin]], i.e. (0/0/0).

Then, the positions of any known stellar bodies and other obstacles would have to be plotted on that coordinate system as well, in order to establish where to jump and where ''not'' to jump.

Finally, the point of arrival would likewise be plotted. The hard part in making a single jump over long distances, like to [[Ragnar Anchorage|Ragnar]] in the Miniseries, would therefore lie not so much in getting the jump drive to fold space correctly, as in correctly figuring out where possible obstacles, such as a sun or a black hole, are located and then adjusting the direction of the jump accordingly, so as to land the ship in a clear volume of space.

==What happened in "Scattered"?==
[[Image:jump calculations.jpg|thumb|left|Schematic Diagram showing the three different sets of Jump Coordinates]]
In "[[Scattered]]", [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']] and the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] executed jumps according to different sets of coordinates. As a consequence, ''Galactica'' had to jump back along its original jump vector, to the former point of origin of the two jumps, reacquire the former starfixes and calculate a best-fit solution given the Fleet's current position.

At first glance, this seems counter-intuitive. Since presumably both sets of jump coordinates were known to ''Galactica'', a simple triangulation of the two jump vectors would have produced an alternative third set of jump-coordinates which should have allowed ''Galactica'' to jump to the Fleet directly.
A possible explanation for the complications that arise in such a case may lie in the [[Wikipedia:General Relativity|"Curvature" of space]] and the fact that ships retain their initial velocity through a jump{{ref|velocity}}.

Space is not flat, but distorted by stellar masses, especially [[Wikipedia:Sun|Suns]] and [[Wikipedia:Black holes|Black Holes]]. Assuming that FTL Jumps cover enormous distances, the above the two different jumps would place lots of unknown stellar bodies between ''Galactica'' and the Fleet, distorting space and thereby screwing up the dimension of „Distance“ in the above mentioned third set of jump-coordinates.

So in order to find the Fleet, ''Galactica'' had to jump back to the point of origin of their last jump, reacquire the Fleet's set of [[Emergency Jump Coordinates]], i.e. figure out where the Point of Origin of these coordinates was ''and'' how to orient the coordinate system used to define these coordinates. This would ensure that ''Galactica'' took approximately the same route as the Fleet did, thereby passing the same stellar bodies along the way and ending up in the vicinity of the Fleet.

==Notes==
#{{note|tigh}} This much is explained by Col. Tigh to his wife Ellen in "Scattered“.
#{{note|velocity}} This can be seen in the Miniseries immediately after Galactica jumps to Ragnar.
# In the [[Miniseries]], Colonel Tigh gives the impression that an FTL jump hasn't taken place in some 20 years and would be inadvisable. Given the preponderance of ships with FTL drives (some 63 comprising the suriving Colonial fleet alone ([[33]]). Tigh was probably referring to the last time ''[[Galactica]]'' herself made an FTL jump.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Terminology]]

Humanoid Cylon speculation

2006-06-01T11:01:28Z

Rafale: /* Felix Gaeta? */

The [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon's]] transformation into [[Cylon agent|humanoid form]] introduces serious problems for the remnant of humanity known as [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] to identify Cylon operative from human.

This article details plausible speculation on central and supporting characters in ''[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]]'' who, based on their behavior, motive, and background, could be in reality a Cylon agent.

==Needed Qualifiers for Speculation==

For a character to be logically considered a possible agent, there are a few established parameters to meet:

* '''The suspect must have a ''regular association'' with other Cylon agents''' (whether they realize the character is an infiltrator or not). A "regular" association means that the character speaks often (weekly, if not daily) to, or has/had direct duties with another agent. Suspects that speak regularly to other suspects in this list are, for the purposes of this article, not applicable to this qualifier. Many Viper pilots and ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' command staff who've worked with the [[Sharon Valerii]] copy known as "Boomer" would meet this qualifier.
* '''The suspect must not have any adult children or siblings.''' For purposes of this article, a pregnancy can be generally established as a disqualifer. However, while identical Colonial twins have not been shown in any episode, it is conceivable that Cylon agents could disguise themselves by posing as twins.
* '''The suspect must not have a verifiable family history''' (marriages do not disqualify unless a child was conceived).
* '''The suspect cannot be old enough to have witnessed or participated in the [[Cylon War]].''' (or if they ''appear to be'', such as the Cylon [[Cavil]], no one can confirm that they ''actually'' lived during these events).
* '''The suspect does not have reliable histories''' that places them in direct association (working or personal relationship) with a disqualified (confirmed human) character for '''more than 2 years prior''' to the destruction of the Colonies.

Based on information from the [[Miniseries]], the Cylon agents began their infiltration and integration into Colonial society approximately 2 years before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. If a character has a direct association with a character that cannot be a Cylon agent, that association excludes them since they are older than the stated time that the agents began to integrate themselves into Colonial society. Note that the 2-year period is based on information given by [[Number Six]] to [[Gaius Baltar]]: Their relationship lasted for 2 years prior to the Cylon attack. There is also supporting information that [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer's]] tour of duty was also approximately 2 years in the Colonial Fleet.

According to [[Ron D. Moore]], the twelve humanoid models are based on human behavior and personality archetypes distilled into twelve varieties. Cylon agents are NOT copies or clones of any humans, living or dead.

With [[Sharon Valerii|one exception]], Cylon agents have extreme difficulty with human sexual reproduction to the point where they are effectively infertile. If a character has adult, biological children, it automatically excludes them as being a Cylon agent as the precreation of the child and the age of the child both violate the 2nd qualifier. Although humanoid Cylons have, eventually, proven to be capable of reproduction with humans, the birth of the hybrid child [[Hera]] was considered such a seminal event by the Cylons that it seems safe to conclude that no Cylon ever had a child before that point.

Based on these qualifers, each assessment below is marked accordingly with their probability of being a Cylon infiltrator.

==Gaius Baltar?==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Three [[Number Six]] incarnations)
* Known siblings or adult children: None
* Known family members: None
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: No
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Very low
''This extended speculation thread appears all but disproven with the airing of the episode "[[Downloaded]]." To go directly to what may be the final arguments toward Baltar as a Cylon, see the last section of this subarticle.''

For '''[[Gaius Baltar]]''' to survive the destruction of Caprica was no small matter, especially considering he was in the wake a nuclear shock wave and that the body of Six that he knew was apparently destroyed in trying to protect his in the events of the [[Miniseries]].

A nuclear blast's shock wave is substantial (not unlike that from a [[Wikipedia:Pyroclastic_flow|pyroclastic cloud]]). The shock wave would contain rocks, glass, metal, and other large debris that would bludgeon, pierce and lacerate human tissue with ease and at terrific speeds (at maximum, 1200 KPH, or 745 MPH). Such a debris-filled shock wave would obliterate Baltar's home and easily annihilate Six's body, which at those speeds would provide essentially no protection to Baltar's. (For comparison, note that, despite his superior strength, the head of the first [[Leoben Conoy]] copy encountered was bludgeoned by Commander Adama with a flashlight, and many other Cylon agent copies have been shot or killed as easily as a human.) However, it has to be kept in mind that the blast wave had dissipated greatly by the time it had reached Baltar's house some 26 seconds after the detonation that almost blinded him, probably no more than hurricane force, a wind speed of 74 mph. There are testimonies from Hiroshima and Nagasaki survivors, two Japanese cities that were struck with nuclear bombs at the end of World War II, being in buildings and even in trams quite close to the epicenter and coming out of the ordeal surprisingly unharmed save for a few scratches.

Even if Baltar survived momentarily from Six's protection, either the remains of his home would have collapsed over him, likely trapping him if not killing him, or he and Six's body would also be carried away by the shock wave for some distance.

Six has had two years to gather plenty of Baltar's genetic material. Could the Baltar on ''Galactica'' be now, in fact, a Cylon agent?

===Why a Copy?===

Information from RDM indicate that, at the start of season 2, there are ''eight'' Cylon operatives that appear in the fleet. A Baltar copy would also have made matters very, very easy for the Cylons in their work to infiltrate the Colonial defenses and would be easily dropped in place to escape or happen to appear on a ship of the nascent Fleet. Such clones may also explain the 'fake' recording from [[Shelly Godfrey]] of Baltar compromising Colonial computer systems in a latter Season 1 episode. Perhaps it was the Cylons who doctored what was, in reality, a legitimate recording of a Baltar copy.

One notable question would be ''why'' Six has spent so much time talking to Baltar and then thrown herself in front of the blast if she'd intended for him to die? If Baltar was already a Cylon agent, his consciousness from that moment would be thrown into a waking duplicate, already disheveled and scraped, where Baltar would merely think he was blown clear to safety where he could run to escape attacks with other survivors. Also, since Baltar appeared to be key in many Cylon plans, they would want to ensure that Baltar would reach any remaining humans to spy for them, and having only one copy might risk the success of such plans. Further, it is the ''psyche'' of Baltar that the Cylons may treasure most; few others in the Colonies may have the level of intelligence, arrogance, and neurosis that Baltar has that could prove as easily exploitable. The guise of the great Baltar gives the Cylons a huge natural tactical advantage in that he is well known and allowed access to almost any critical battlestar location. Baltar's slick-as-oil personality aids him with better finesse and stronger charisma than any Cylon agent personality yet seen.

===The Baltar-as-Father Argument===

Six has stated her desire to have a child with Baltar. Cylon agent couplings have failed to result in offspring prior to that point ("[[The Farm]]"). If Baltar and Six were both Cylon agent, it is likely that offspring would either be impossible or at least exceptionally unlikely. This point gives evidence against the Baltar-as-Cylon theory, but Six has repeatedly made it clear that she considers the hybrid human-cylon baby that Sharon is carrying to be "our" (as she puts it) baby. "Our" may in fact be inclusive of all cylons, which may just include Baltar.

In "[[Home, Part II]]", Six indicates that Baltar's and Six's child will be born in the isolation cage built for the [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii]]. The reality turned out different: The Caprica version of Valerii, pregnant by [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], now occupies the cage by the end of that episode, and Six indicates that it is in fact '''Valerii's''' child that will become Baltar's. This gives some weight to the Baltar-as-Cylon theory since Baltar becoming a father by surrogate circumvents the need for him to do so naturally. While Caprica-Valerii shows that a female Cylon agent could conceive, no information is yet available on whether male Cylon agents could sire a child with human females. However, earlier in the first season, in "[[33]]", Six asked Baltar if he wanted to procreate with her, and at this point she may have meant an actual child of Baltar's. "Home, Part II" occurred much later in the timeline, and it is possible that the Cylons and Number Six had to alter their plans during this time. Number Six did mention in "Home, Part II" that she didn't consider Sharon "worthy" of bearing one of "God's new children" (the Cylon agents). Perhaps Sharon was not originally planned to be the first mother of a hybrid baby at all, and Number Six was going to have a child with the (necessarily human) Baltar, but had to shift plans when Boomer became pregnant first.

===Inside Baltar's Head===

Baltar's brain scan in "[[Home, Part II]]" confirms that the virtual Six that only Baltar can see is '''not''' an actual ''artificial'' device in his brain. This leaves a number of possibilities, of which the strongest are:

# Baltar has a device elsewhere in his body. We're not given information on whether ''all'' of Baltar's body was scanned, or just his head.
# A portion of Baltar's body ''is'' the "chip" but fashioned in a way by the Cylons that is medically indistinguishable from a regular body part and may also function normally (say, a pituitary gland)
# Baltar's body is artificial, with his personality (complete with neuroses) placed in a Cylon agent construct. While Baltar's psyche itself may not be that of a Cylon, the addition of the virtual Six component compliments the arrangement for the Cylon's purposes.

Possibility #3 is interesting in that, based on Baltar's own research on the Six copy known as [[Gina]], Baltar's personality and guilt would continue to plague him either in Cylon agent or human form. But, if Baltar were reconstructed as a Cylon, the virtual Six aids Baltar by being, in effect, the conscience and "guardian angel" she claims to be, keeping his neuroses and guilt over the genocide from driving him completely insane--for now.

===But Cylons aren't human clones===

As Cylons aren't copies of humans, this would suggest either of two possibilities for Baltar: first, that he survived the blast and escaped, or second, that Baltar was a Cylon all along, even on Caprica.

The idea of Baltar being originally a Cylon has problems, however. If Baltar were a Cylon, it would be redundant and unnecessary for Number Six to "choose him" for her mission (unless the Cylons preferred Baltar to remain a "sleeper" throughout his mission to give "plausible deniability" in his mind as well as allow him to do what his personality is likely to do). Furthermore, from a story perspective, the idea of Baltar being a Cylon very much goes against the idea of Baltar as a traitor betraying humanity to the Cylons—as well as the idea of Baltar's relationship with Six being a true human/Cylon pairing. It should be noted, however, that Ron D. Moore's "Gaius Baltar" differs significantly from the [[Baltar (TOS)|"Baltar" of the Original Series]]. The Baltar of the Original Series was a true turncoat with megalomaniacal tendencies; Gaius, on the other hand, is not power-hungry but is driven by a strong sense of self, albeit to the exclusion and ignorance of the needs of everyone else.

Gaius is often treated by Six as a human--ultimately the only human who will be allowed to survive by the Cylons. But the human models of Cylon also behave with classically human qualities (not all of them perfect or utopian) and seem to see each other in varying emotions (admiration and contempt are prevalent when Six speaks of the pregnant Caprica Valerii). So, at the least, Gaius is treated with no less respect than any other Cylon agent by his virtual Six. If we assume Gaius is indeed human, Six's interaction with Baltar (given the hostilities of the Cylons) borders on admiration. Although we can't necessarily use Six's emotions as a ''de facto'' gauge of Baltar's genuine humanity, it does lend to the mystery.

The storyline possibilities do change somewhat if Baltar has ''always'' been a Cylon. Note that Baltar has never spoken of his family or other friends (other than President [[Richard Adar|Adar]]), strongly suggesting Baltar has been a "loner." If Baltar's parentage (or offspring--he is rather promiscuous) cannot be confirmed (as has been done with Commander Adama, also on this list, then the laws of physics (nuclear shock wave damage to human tissue) as well as the laws of procreation (Cylons can't quite procreate as humans do) continue to leave open the possibility that Baltar is model of Cylon, however reduced the odds are now, based on Moore's new information.

==="Downloaded" all but disproves speculation===

The episode "[[Downloaded]]" contains revelations that make it extremely unlikely the Baltar is a Cylon. In dialogues with each other, numerous Cylon characters distinctly refer to Baltar as human. Although it is possible that they might keep the information from Baltar, the nature of the Cylon thought collective would seem to make no sense to keep it a secret to each other. In addition, this episode introduced the unique idea of a Number Six copy with a virtual ''Baltar'' in her head. Through Six, Baltar pushes for the Cylons to be more human; for example, letting [[Samuel Anders]] go free despite his destruction of a building and many other Cylon agents. If Baltar were a Cylon, the events in the episode would make little sense.

With this episode's end, the remaining tenuous thread to the now-remote likelihood of Baltar as a Cylon involves the manner of Baltar and Caprica-Six's relationship as opposed to [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and Chief [[Galen Tyrol]]. If we suppose as a certainty that both Baltar and Tyrol are human, then why does Baltar find himself with a virtual Six after she dies, while Tyrol does not find a virtual Boomer walking about after Boomer's death? Both humans find themselves denying their love, only to recant their claim later. What makes the Baltar-Six arrangement so strikingly different? Why, at all, have these virtual Six and Baltar incarnations appeared in the first place? If Baltar were a Cylon (albeit a model unknown to any other Cylon, which would stretch the plausibility of the nature of their collective thought process per "Downloaded"), would the love between two Cylons cause a "feedback loop" of emotion to spill over between the two Cylons, creating the virtual consciousnesses? Or, assuming that Baltar is fully human, if Cylons revive (medically) a dead human (as Baltar should be, given the destruction of his home and everything in it ''except him''), would such a revival cause the virtual consciousnesses to emerge? In contrast, Tyrol has not died (although he suffers a near-death by Dr. Baltar's hand in "[[Resistance]]") which may support this weaker, but faintly plausible concept of Baltar's true nature.

===Baltar as an "Agent of God"===
Baltar's actions when forced by his virtual Six to repent and worship the Cylon version of [[God]] leaves several significant questions as to the nature of both the virtual Six and Baltar's nature.

In the episode, "[[The Hand of God]]", Baltar makes and educated guess at the specific target to be destroyed on the [[tylium]] refinery without knowing any significant data on the site. Baltar only receives encouragement from his virtual Six to trust in her belief. In "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]," viewers see a stricken and nearly-criminally exposed Baltar repent to the virtual Six just as Lt. Gaeta arrives to confirm his innocence. In the same episode, the virtual Six disappears in anger just as the [[Shelly Godfrey]] copy arrives (with a suggestion that the virtual Six ''knew'' (or summoned) the Godfrey model to arrive. The Godfrey model disappears just as the virtual Six returns as Baltar is repenting.

The episode "[[Downloaded]]" strongly suggests that the virtual copies of [[Caprica Six]] and Baltar that [[Cylon-Related Hallucinations|haunt their opposite interests]] seem to be psychological remnants of the pair's intensive emotional connection. But what if there is more to this than psychology? Episode events surrounding the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and Laura Roslin's quest for the [[Tomb of Athena]] confirm that the Colonials have a spiritual or prophetic element that has guided them to the data that now places them in a true general path to Earth. What forces are driving Baltar beyond his own egotism? What is the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar? Neither Baltar nor Caprica Six know why they appear, and both virtual beings appear to have knowledge beyond that of what the living being they haunt should know. If Baltar is being influenced by the Cylon God (or some cybernetic influence known by neither Cylon or Colonial), there suggests a new thread to the Baltar-as-Cylon speculation that goes beyond the mere creation of a Baltar model. However, in the podcast Ron Moore speaks of the virtual Baltar as simply a hallucination, while interviews and podcasts Moore consistently states that the origin of the virtual Six is supposed to be deliberately vague.

== Ellen Tigh? ==
* Regular association with other agents: No
* Known siblings or adult children: None
* Known family members: None
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: Maybe (Character over 40 years of age)
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Seven-year marriage to [[Saul Tigh]]
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low to Moderate

In light of her statistic-defying survival of the Cylon holocaust and her manipulations of her husband during Commander [[William Adama]]'s incapacitation ("[[Scattered]]" through "[[Resistance]]"), Ellen Tigh's actions have demonstrated the possibility that she may be a Cylon agent. For someone who seems so intelligent and far-sighted, she should be well aware that pushing her husband to strong-arm the rest of the Fleet to conform with his (and her) views would only end in chaos. If she ''is'' a Cylon looking to destroy the Fleet from within, then the best weapon in her arsenal is the man she's married to.

In an October 2005 webcast, [[Ronald D. Moore]] indicated that the likelihood of Ellen Tigh being a Cylon was low. Essentially, this was due to the feeling that having her be a Cylon agent would not only be convenient, but unrealistic from a story point-of-view as well. Moore's comments don't eliminate Ellen Tigh from consideration, but reduces the likelihood of this speculation. Some viewers surmise that Moore may have meant that revealing Tigh as a Cylon in her [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down|debut episode]] in addition to the character's many other complexities, would stretch the overall believability or integrity of the character at that point, but that he was not refering to her actual status as a Cylon or not at the time.

Ellen Tigh's celebrated her seventh wedding anniversary with Saul Tigh in a [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/deleted1.html deleted scene] from the episode "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]". If the canonicity of this scene stands, then Ellen's likelihood of being an agent drops dramatically. Else, the establishment of their wedding "date" should aid in increasing or reducing speculation on this intriguing character.

== William Adama? ==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Sharon Valerii)
* Known siblings or adult children: Yes ([[Lee Adama]] and [[Zak Adama]])
* Known family members: Yes ([[Caroline Adama]] and [[Anne Adama]])
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: Yes (widely-known Veteran)
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (Saul Tigh)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

Of all the suspected infiltrators, the case against William Adama appears to be the weakest.

In the Miniseries, Adama seems to know that the Cylon agents have "silica relays" in their brains, and that they would be affected by the storm around [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. This knowledge is not explained, but the [[Number Five]] copy left on the station showed signs of being affected, whereas Adama did not. In "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", Commander Adama disappears mysteriously and returns with Ellen Tigh. Around the same time, a Cylon Raider shows up. However, this was all explained later in the same episode, when Adama reveals that he was reluctant to openly announce Ellen's sudden appearance because he was afraid she could be a Cylon.

Adama also has exhibited strange behavior, from expressing vague Cylon sympathies (both in his speech in the Miniseries and in his discussion with Tyrol in "[[Home, Part I]]" where he seems to concede that Boomer was more than a machine). While not openly friendly to the Cylons, Adama seems to at least respect them as persons in that he does not treat the Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii inhumanely (despite an attempt at strangling her when they first met), despite what was done to him by the Valerii copy known as "Boomer". While this could indicate a Cylon nature, it's also extremely likely that Adama's strength of character and personality enable him to think that Valerii might actually have changed.

William Adama is the father of two children, [[Lee Adama|Lee]] and [[Zak Adama|Zak]]. Before the conception of Valerii's hybrid child the Cylons have been unable to produce children through sexual reproduction. Further, Adama is, by all accounts, a veteran of the well-documented [[Cylon War]], back at a time where Cylons were purely mechanical and not biosynthetic.

When the recent revelation by Ron Moore that Cylon agents are unique beings and not copies of existing humans is added to this, the likelihood of William Adama as a suspected infiltrator could be all but ruled out. This also throws the validity of Leoben Conoy's final words to Roslin accusing Adama as a Cylon in "[[Flesh and Bone]]" into question (which were almost certainly meant to just spread paranoia).

The strongest convincing evidence against Adama as a Cylon is that we have seen flashbacks of Adama and Saul Tigh in the years prior to the destruction of the Colonies, after the first Cylon War. Since Cylon agents aren't copies of humans, it is not possible for Adama (or Tigh) to be Cylon operatives (at least of the type used thus far).

== Lee Adama? ==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Sharon Valerii)
* Known siblings or adult children: Yes, with qualifier (See "[[Black Market]]")
* Known family members: Yes ([[William Adama]], [[Zak Adama]])
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (William Adama)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

In "[[Flesh and Bone]]", a copy of [[Leoben Conoy]], a Cylon agent, grabs [[Laura Roslin]] and tells her, "Adama is a Cylon," prior to his execution. If his statement is true, it leaves doubt on which Adama he is talking about, although Roslin's actions in the next episode, "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", indicate that she believes Conoy spoke of Commander Adama.

Cylon agents are not copies (clones) of existing people. Evidence from [[Sharon Valerii]]'s and [[Number Six]]'s conversations indicate that humanoid Cylon infiltration began no earlier than 2 years prior to the events of the [[Miniseries]], although their respective backstories may suggest they have been "alive" for many years. As Lee Adama was alive long before this introduction, and his father knew him since he was born and can thus confirm this, the probability that Lee Adama is a Cylon is as low as that of his father.

Information from the episode, "[[Black Market]]" suggests that Adama was to be a father to a child he conceived on Caprica, but he left the unborn child's mother, his lover at the time. Such a pregnancy, if Lee Adama was indeed an agent, would introduce the ability of Cylon ''males'' to sire children (currently, episodes only show that it is possible for a Cylon ''female'' to conceive).

''There are reports of fan fiction with stories involving Lee Adama as a Cylon. ''Battlestar Wiki'' does not post fan fiction (whole or in excerpts), or speculation generated by these stories. An article's content must (with some [[Toaster|silly]], [[Numerology|non-sequitur]] [[Flashlight|exceptions]]) provide sufficient basis in fact or probability based on aired episode information or other official sources as described in the [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad]] project page.''

== Felix Gaeta? ==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Sharon Valerii)
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Association with known disqualifing character: Yes (William Adama)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Moderate

Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] is in a good position for a Cylon—not conspicuous but nonetheless in a position where he can help the Cylons quite a bit. Gaeta arguably seems to hand something to Boomer in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" before she shoots Adama (a frame by frame analysis shows that their hands are not in frame dispite the camera intentionally panning down when he shakes her hand, leaving the question unanswered). However, he did not hand her a gun, because pilots always carry sidearms, and she walked into CIC with it. Gaeta can recognize Cylon devices, and is close to [[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar]]. He admitted to ignoring the Cylon device installed on his console in the [[miniseries]], explaining that he thought it was unimportant. Gaeta has plotted coordinates to a water planet, a Cylon [[tyllium]] base, and [[Kobol]] with uncanny accuracy. He "forgot" to send updated [[emergency_jump_coordinates| emergency jump coordinates]] to the fleet in "[[Scattered]]", leaving ''Galactica'' vulnerable to Cylon electronic attack after having to network the ship [[Computers|computer]] systems together. In "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" Gaeta helps the Cylon cause by uncovering the ballot tampering which leads to the election of Gaius.

Gaeta's recent behavioral changes from the stress of working at evading the Cylons shows by "[[Final Cut]]" as Gaeta is shown in his interview drunk, smoking, and wearing a new tattoo. By the following episode, "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", Gaeta angrily snaps at Colonel Tigh for giving a difficult order, causing surprise throughout [[CIC]] since Gaeta is normally a calm, reserved officer even under the worst of conditions. Contrast this behavior with Boomer, the ''Galactica'' copy of Sharon Valerii, who still appeared quite alert after 5 continuous days of combat status. Note the following dialogue from the first regular series episode, "[[33]]":

::'''[[Lee Adama|Apollo]]''': Hey, how about you, Boomer? [[Cottle|Doc]] tells me you're holding up better than anybody in the squadron.
::'''Boomer''': I'm tired, like everybody else.
::'''Apollo''': You never seem it.
::'''[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]''': 'Cause she's a Cylon.
::'''Boomer''': You're just gonna make me come over there and kick your ass, aren't you?

While even Cylon agents develop severe behavioral and physiological issues after extended work and abuse ([[Number Six#Gina|Pegasus]]), Cylon agents appear to be more resilient than humans, which may limit the likelihood of Gaeta's possible Cylon connection. On the other hand, if he were a Cylon, Gaeta's human personality may have finally been overtaxed by that time, suggesting that an actual human might have snapped earlier in their exodus in contrast.

In the end, Gaeta's likelihood as a Cylon operative may be in doubt over one key element: The Cylons appear to have integrated human agents into the Colonies no earlier than 2 years before the events of the Miniseries. Gaeta has served on ''Galactica'' with Commander Adama for three years ([[Miniseries]]). Since humanoid Cylons are not clones of actual humans, the likelihood of Gaeta as a Cylon agent would depend on the start of Cylon agent introduction.

== Jammer? ==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Sharon Valerii, as deck specialist)
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Association with known disqualifing character: No
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' High

[[Jammer]] has exhibited suspicious actions numerous times. Along with [[Cally]] and [[Socinus]], he serves under Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] on the [[hangar deck]]. Jammer consistently makes remarks that seem to be trying to divide the humans against each other. When it was revealed to the Fleet that Cylons now can look like humans in "[[Litmus]]", he kept arguing that everyone should stop trusting each other and that it was "every man for himself now", while Socinus said that if they didn't trust each other they wouldn't survive. Cally even pointed out that Jammer's kind of thinking is ''exactly'' what the Cylons want: for everyone to become suspicious and paranoid. Jammer keeps doing this through the second season: when Tyrol is accused of being a Cylon in "[[Resistance]]" he immediately yells at Cally that the Chief must be a Cylon. Whenever Jammer appears he seems to be trying to sow mistrust among the crew. Also, he told the emotionally unstable Cally that she should be angry at "Boomer" (the first Sharon Valerii copy) not himself, for Tyrol's being suspected, and that she should take it up with Boomer. Jammer can then be seen as having manipulated Cally into killing Boomer (Cally need not be a Cylon; Jammer could tell she was suffering from post-traumatic stress after Kobol and that she would go after Boomer if he suggested it to her).

One of the biggest pieces of evidence against Jammer is that when ''Galactica'' was boarded by Cylon Centurions in "[[Valley of Darkness]]", Apollo and his group of marines found him hiding in a small arms locker, completely unharmed, although the room was littered with the corpses of crewmen the Cylons had killed. He claimed to have just hid then snuck inside, but perhaps he was already there and the Centurions spared him because they knew he was a Cylon as well. [[Anastasia Dualla]] was also found alive in a room filled with dead crewmen, but she was in the lavatory, which isn't a vital area of the ship, while Jammer was in a small arms locker. Further, Dualla was wounded; she had a light concussion and presumably a Centurion knocked her unconscious, assumed she was dead, and moved on. Jammer was just standing around inside of the weapons locker.

Jammer continues to exhibit pessimistic, counterproductive, and morale-draining behavior. When Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] was trying to construct the [[Blackbird]], he vocally tried to convince the other deckhands that it couldn't be done and it wasn't worth trying. He may have done this to undermine the military assets of ''Galactica'': the Cylons may be hoping to wear down ''Galactica's'' Viper numbers through gradual attrition, while because the Cylons have dedicated manufacturing capabilities for Raiders on the [[Cylon homeworld]] and possibly on basestars, Raiders are easily replaceable. With this in mind, the last thing the Cylons would want is for ''Galactica'' to start constructing her own replacement fighters ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

== Bell? ==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes ([[D'anna Biers]])
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Association with known disqualifing character: No
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low

D'anna Biers' [[Bell|cameraman/assistant]] is another possible candidate for a Cylon infiltrator, as he has been shown willingly taking part in the same devious and manipulative activities as D'anna Biers ([[Final Cut]]). Whether he is a Cylon working in tandem with Biers, or just a nosy human journalist following his superior’s equally devious wishes has yet to be determined.

Bell's speculation as a Cylon agent is questionable based on some of his actions in "Final Cut." When he is free of D'anna Biers, he doesn't film sensitive, if seemingly trivial, data. He overlooks the carbon dioxide scrubbers (a potential Cylon infiltator target). In addition, instead of filming the [[hangar deck]] after the destruction of the two [[Raider]]s, Bell focuses on Apollo's post-flight check. Since Bell has not been seen in the series since this episode, the lack of further appearances all but eliminates the likelihood for this character to be a Cylon agent.

== Billy Keikeya? ==
* Regular association with other agents: No
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: No
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low

[[Billy Keikeya]] might also be a Cylon due to the relative lack of confirmation surrounding his character. In a deleted scene in the Miniseries, it is revealed that Roslin met Billy for the first time when she boarded Colonial One to travel to Galactica; thus he presence can only be "confirmed" immediately before the attack, far short of even the 2 years that Number Six and Boomer had infiltrated the Colonies. Virtually nothing can be confirmed about Billy; although he states in the Miniseries that his parents and siblings were living on Picon when it was nuked, we really only have his word for it and no way to confirm that these were actual facts. Everyone just takes Billy's word for it. Billy has also stated (in deleted scenes in "[[Home, Part II]]") that he is an atheist. Again, he could simply be behaving based on implanted false memories that form a fake personality crafted by the Cylons, and it would be an ironic twist if an atheist character was revealed to belong to a race of religious zealots. That being said, the most recently revealed Cylon agent, [[Cavil]], also exhibts athestic or agnostic tendencies, explicidly stating that "there is no [[God]]" when interogated by Roslin and Adama.

Billy could be a Cylon that was sent to keep tabs on Laura Roslin during the attack; Roslin was a viable target due to her status as a high-ranking government official. In an interesting deleted scene in "[[Fragged]]" Billy appears in one of Roslin's dreams as a manifestation of her own doubts and fears. In the dream he antagonisticlly taunts her for her faith in the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and [[Kara Thrace]] then stabs her in the heart with a knife afterwhich she wakes up screaming in terror. Given the prophetic conotations of Roslin's previous dreams and visions this could ''possibly'' be taken as evidence for Keikeya being a Cylon, however like most deleted material its canonicity is tenative at best. 

The character of Billy Keikeya dies in the episode, "[[Sacrifice]]." As only Cylon agents can "return from the dead," the argument for Keikeya as a Cylon agent is effectively invalid unless the character appears in a present-time (non-flashback) episode of the series, which would confirm Keikeya's true nature.

== Anders? ==
* Regular association with other agents: Unknown (Lived on Cylon-occupied Caprica for several months)
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Unknown (Was Pyramid Ball player but not known for how long)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low

As the leader of an anti-Cylon resistance movement on Cylon-occupied Caprica, Anders stands small chance of actually being a Cylon. He was a well known public figure as a sports star, and though this might have only happened recently, it lends credit against the idea that he is a Cylon. In "[[Downloaded]]", while he is unconscious [[Number Three]] and [[Number Six]] refer to him between themselves as a human. Although it has not been definitively disproven that he is a Cylon, the chances that the leader of the anti-Cylon insurgency is himself a sleeper Cylon are very low.

==Helo?==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes
* Known siblings or adult children: Yes ([[Hera]])
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Unknown
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

Helo fathers a Cylon-human hybrid, [[Hera]], with a known Cylon agent, [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]. As Cylon males cannot sire children (per data from "[[The Farm]]"), Helo, being male, cannot realistically be a Cylon himself.

==Laura Roslin?==
* Regular association with other agents: No
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (President [[Richard Adar]])
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

President Roslin may have prophetic moments, like [[Number Six]] and [[Leoben Conoy]], but she cannot possibly be a Cylon. Roslin was a public figure for 20 years ([[Litmus]]), working with later-President Adar and eventually serving as Secretary of Education: her past is totally confirmed. Cylon agents appear to be resistant to cancer, and Roslin was dying of cancer until she was cured by a blood transfusion from the Cylon-Human hybrid fetus ([[Epiphanies]]).

==Kara Thrace?==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Boomer)
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: Yes (alluded to in "[[The Farm]]" by [[Simon]])
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: No
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

[[Simon]] wanted to use Starbuck's egg cells in Cylon/Human hybrid experiments, and it would be totally illogical for him to need to hold her against her will to obtain her genetic material, if the Cylons already have hundreds of copies of a Starbuck-model Cylon to obtain it from. Starbuck's incarceration in a Cylon [[Farms|Farm]] disqualifies her from being a Cylon.

==Tom Zarek?==
* Regular association with other agents: No
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: Unknown
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (President Adar, publicly known to be held in prison for 20 years)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

Tom Zarek may seem subversive to the status quo of the Fleet and opposed to President Roslin's administration, but he can't be a Cylon. Zarek has been a well-known terrorist/political dissident for decades. He is widely known for blowing up a government building on Sagittaron, leading to his arrest 20 years ago, and he was presumably a prominent Sagittaron leader for years beforehand. President Adar publicly offered him amnesty if he would renounce his campaign of violence to free Sagittaron and Zarek refused. Due to being such a publicly known figure for so many decades before the Cylon Attack, Zarek could not be a Cylon.

==Helena Cain?==
* Regular association with other agents: No
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (William Adama)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

Admiral Cain may have been ruthless and a danger to the Fleet, but she was a publicly known figure for years. Cain spent years rapidly rising through the ranks all the way up to Admiral. Adama has personally witnessed this rise, which must have taken longer than the 2 year cutoff for likely Cylon agent infiltration as defined in this article.

==Dualla?==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Boomer)
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Unknown
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Moderate

Dualla seems to have a fairly well developed backstory regarding her past; she is a Sagittaron ([[Bastille Day]]), her father disapproved of her joining the military ([[Final Cut]]), but upon closer inspection none of this can be confirmed by a third party: the only source of information about Dualla's past in the series has been Dualla herself. Dualla's position in charge of ''Galactica's'' communications puts her in an ideal position for subversion. In "[[Valley of Darkness]]", Dualla is found in the enlisted head, having suffered a blow to the head from Cylon Centurions that passed through. The Centurions killed everyone else, and it does seem plausible that one merely swiped her in the head, knocking her out, and thus thought she was dead and moved on. However, it still seems odd that she was the only survivor. In addittion, Number Six later demonstrated in "[[Downloaded]]" how she was willing to physically damage herself in order to manipulate ''Galactica''-Sharon's sympathy: perhaps Dualla hit ''herself'' in the head, to fake an injury, thus throwing suspicion off of herself. Dualla started a relationship with President Roslin's aide, Billy Keikeya, possibly to gain a foothold in the president's office, and then began a relationship with Lee Adama, CAG of ''Galactica'' and son of the military commander of the entire fleet. Eventually, Apollo was promoted to ''Pegasus'' commander and Dualla left ''Galactica'' to marry him{{citation needed}} and become his XO, further insinuating herself into the command structure.

==Tory Foster?==
* Regular association with other agents: No
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: No
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low to Moderate

Tory Foster's past is unconfirmed, and she seemed eager to work her way into President Roslin's administration. The odds that another aide with skills like Billy Keikeya would also happen to be alive in the Fleet is also tenuous.

==Galen Tyrol?==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Boomer)
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (William Adama)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low to None

Chief Tyrol was in an illicit relationship with Boomer, and later had recurring nightmares based on his fear that he might also be a Cylon sleeper agent. However, he has served under William Adama on ''Galactica'' for 5 years, and as Adama put it, had he been a Cylon and they wanted the ship to be destroyed, he more than knew how to do it, and should have ''already'' done it by this point. Cally's expected child in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]", ostensibly that of Tyrol's, all but removes suspicion for this character (love does allow for human-Cylon pregnancies to occur, however).

==Cally==
* Regular association with other agents: Yes (Boomer)
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Witnessed/participated in Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Unknown
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low to None

Cally shot Boomer in a "Jack Ruby-style" assassination, preventing the Fleet from interrogating her further. While this might benefit the Cylon agenda, Cally had a perfectly understandable reason for doing it, which she has openly stated: she hated Boomer for what she did to Chief Tyrol, hated her for betraying all of their trust and shooting Adama, and simply because she was a Cylon. Indeed, many other characters in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]" ''congratulate'' Cally and say they would have done the same given the chance. Little can be confirmed about Cally's past, not even her first name yet, but this has not pointed to any Cylon origin. Finally, Cally is pregnant with Tyrol's child as of the end of season 2, meaning it is impossible for them both to be Cylons and improbable in the extreme that either of them is.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:RDM]]

FTL

2006-06-01T10:26:01Z

Rafale: /* What happened in "Scattered"? */

==Introduction==

Acronym for Faster-than-Light. This is a term used to describe a means of astral propulsion utilized by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonials]]. The standard term for FTL travel is '''"jump."'''

The FTL drive makes interstellar travel possible for both the Colonials and [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. No longer confined to their own home solar system, the Cylons managed to avoid Colonial interference for 40 years after the [[Cylon War]] and establish their own homeworld. However, not all ships -- from small to large -- are outfitted with these drives ([[Miniseries]]). It's likely that FTL drives are not commonplace on many civilian ships because of the costs involved in using and maintaining the drive and the amount of [[tyllium|fuel]] available. For some civilian ships that travel comparatively short distances between some destinations, such as the ill-fated [[Botanical Cruiser]], FTL may simply be impractical or unnecessary.

The technology behind FTL systems is such that, providing the relevant data is known, ships can jump with a high degree of accuracy, allowing ships to rendezvous in space and even "park" in a synchronous orbit directly above a given point on a planet's surface ([[Miniseries]]). Proper FTL use even enables vessels to arrive in crowded areas, such as the middle of an asteroid field or other ships, without the risk of collision and damage ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

No specific information on the technology of an FTL drive has been given in the Miniseries or regular series. We know only that ''Galactica'' has two FTL drives, and that other smaller or civilian ships have a single drive. We also know from dialogue that the FTL drives on ''Galactica'' are "spun up", suggesting a use of electromagnetic or centrifugal energies that may serve in creating the fields or forces needed to activate the engines.

== Colonial Limitations ==

* Colonial FTL systems are not small-scale, and cannot be installed into vehicles such as the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]. They can, however, be used on vehicles the size of a [[Raptor]], which is limited to brief, short-distance jumps. Raptors can make a sequence of short FTL "hops" in a row, to reach the same destination as a capital ship with a full-sized FTL drive ([[Miniseries]]).
* Colonial FTL systems cannot be used multiple times over a long period of time, for they are prone to breakdown after excessive, repetitive use ([[33]]).
* FTL jumps can apparently induce nausea or discomfort in some people, such as [[Cally]] ([[Miniseries]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
* The wormholes generated by Colonial drive systems are limited in size; this defines the maximum size to which a colonial vessel can be built (hence the need for [[Battlestar|battlestars]] to retract their landing pods and reduce their overall cross-section prior to a jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], etc.).
* Colonial FTL systems appear to be a holdover from the [[History of the Twelve Colonies#Exodus|Exodus]] from [[Kobol]], and their current designs have been developed to meet the needs of jumping between the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], as their outposts in other [[Troy|star systems]]. Colonial FTL capabilities have defined limits, referred to as the [[Red Line]], beyond which jumps may not be possible / could result in damage to a vessel's drive system / lead to navigational inaccuracies that might put the ship at risk.
* Navigators must be careful to plan FTL jump paths so as not to get too close to planets or other large objects, as they can be dangerous ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Knowing the limitations of their own FTL drives, a team apparently led by Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] successfully refitted a [[Raptor]] with the FTL drive from a captured [[Heavy Raider]] (presumably the one used by [[Kara Thrace]] to return from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]"). They later use this drive's data (with the aid of the cooperative copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]) to coordinate a squadron of Raptors to fly back to Caprica for a rescue mission to retrieve a [[resistance (movement)|team of resistance fighters there]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Despite the accuracy of the advanced Cylon FTL drive and Valerii's aid in marking the Jumps, two Raptors do not complete the mission. One obtains corrupted Jump data and finds itself within a nebula and a undiscovered [[New Caprica|habitable planet]], and is forced to return to the Fleet. The second Raptor also gets corrupted coordinates and materializes inside a nearby mountain on the final Jump intra-atmosphere into Caprica, with a loss of ship and crew.

== Cylon Advantage ==

* Cylon FTL systems can be manufactured on a smaller scale to their Colonial equivalent, thus allowing the [[Cylon Raider]] to be outfitted with an FTL drive. ([[Miniseries]]).
* Cylon FTL drive systems are far more efficient than their Colonial equivalent. Tests with the Raider captured by the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]) demonstrated that the drive could enable the Raider to jump directly from the vicinity of [[Kobol]] back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]) - a jump completed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] during her search for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).
* The extreme ranges over which Cylon vessels can jump would indicate that Cylon navigation systems are far better integrated with their FTL system to enable such long-distance jumps to be accurately plotted.
* Given that the Cylons left Colonial space to find their own planet, it is possible that their longer-range FTL capability was created in response to a desire to be able to cover the distance between their adoptive homeworld and those of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] with a single jump.

==Background to FTL in New BSG==
In establishing the series the creators of the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] determined to keep everything within the show very "[[Naturalistic science fiction|natural]]". This means steering away from the standard clichés of television science-fiction: no bumpy-head aliens, no remarkable technology such as matter/anti-matter conversion, etc. So how is the concept of faster-than-light travel possible within this precept?

===Underpinning Theories===

[[Image:Wormhole-demo.png|thumb|FTL: "Folding Space" (credit: Wikipedia)]]
The FTL drive technology used within the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] appears to be based on the use of [[Wikipedia:Superstring Theory|Superstring Theory]] and [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] that essentially enable the "jump drive" systems to "fold" space, reducing the distance between any two points by creating a "corridor" through space that links them together (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge). Such "corridors" are allowed by the general theory of relativity; what [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] does is provide a way to change the topology of spacetime dynamically.

The use of such Wormholes is based on the tenet that space is curved. Hence the term "[[Wikipedia:Wormhole|wormhole]]", which arises from the analogy that space can be seen as an apple. A worm can travel from one side of the apple to the other in two ways:
* By crawling over the surface, or
* By burrowing through the apple (creating a "wormhole").
Obviously, the second option is considerably shorter than the first.

===Relativistic Acceleration===
A key point concerning the use of wormholes within the new Battlestar Galactica, is that they do not break the fundamental limiting factor of our universe: the speed of light. Vessels in the new Battlestar Galactica series do not accelerate to faster-than-light velocities. Rather, they use the wormhole to reduce the distance to their destination, thus giving the ''impression'' of faster-than-light travel.

This is the reason why FTL jumps are virtually instantaneous within episodes (e.g.[[33]]). It also means that the only ''direct'' form of propulsion available for vessels is generated by their [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight drive systems]]. In turn, this is why vessels exiting from a jump are seen to be travelling at the same velocity as when they committed to the jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]], etc.)

===Feasibility===
While the use of wormholes in this manner is not currently possible, work is progressing on superstring and M-Theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future. The limiting factor is the ability to generate negative energy densities, which are allowed (though severely restricted) by quantum mechanics. As such, the use of such systems again meets one of the stated desires of the the producers of the new Battlestar Galactica: not to rely on the "traditional" trappings of science-fiction that require exotic science and technology. Theoretical physicist [[Wikipedia:Kip Thorne|Kip Thorne]] has carried out extensive research into wormholes, and helped develop a scientifically-consistent means of wormhole travel used by [[Wikipedia:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] in his novel [[Wikipedia:Contact (novel)|"Contact"]] which bears a remarkable similarity to the technology employed within Battlestar Galactica.

==Jump Calculations==
Based on deduction from information gleaned in [[Scattered|Scattered]], a set of Jump Coordinates used to execute an FTL-Jump "tells" the Jump Drive to fold space along a vector of three dimensions:

*Elevation
*Rotation
*Distance

Here, the dimension of Distance would represent more than just a straight line, plotted through three-dimensional space but the amount of space curvature that the jump drive would have to fold.

A possible algorithm for jump calculations would therefore necessitate first and foremost the figuring out of the exact location of the ship, relative to its intended point of arival after the jump. This is done by identifying, fixing and triangulating several stars. {{ref|tigh}}

Next, the ship's position relative to the intended point of arrival would be [[Wikipedia:Point plotting|plotted]] on a three-dimensional [[Wikipedia:Cartesian coordinate system|Carthesian coordinate system]], using the ship as its [[Wikipedia:Origin (mathematics)|point of origin]], i.e. (0/0/0).

Then, the positions of any known stellar bodies and other obstacles would have to be plotted on that coordinate system as well, in order to establish where to jump and where ''not'' to jump.

Finally, the point of arrival would likewise be plotted. The hard part in making a single jump over long distances, like to Ragnar in the Miniseries, would therefore lie not so much in getting the jump drive to fold space correctly, as in correctly figuring out where possible obstacles, such as a sun or a black hole, are located and then adjusting the direction of the jump accordingly, so as to land the ship in a clear volume of space.

==What happened in "Scattered"?==
[[Image:jump calculations.jpg|thumb|left|Schematic Diagram showing the three different sets of Jump Coordinates]]
In "[[Scattered]]", [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']] and the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] executed jumps according to different sets of coordinates. As a consequence, ''Galactica'' had to jump back along its original jump vector, to the former point of origin of the two jumps, reacquire the former starfixes and calculate a best-fit solution given the Fleet's current position.

At first glance, this seems counter-intuitive. Since presumably both sets of jump coordinates were known to ''Galactica'', a simple triangulation of the two jump vectors would have produced an alternative third set of jump-coordinates which should have allowed ''Galactica'' to jump to the Fleet directly.
A possible explanation for the complications that arise in such a case may lie in the [[Wikipedia:General Relativity|"Curvature" of space]] and the fact that ships retain their initial velocity through a jump{{ref|velocity}}.

Space is not flat, but distorted by stellar masses, especially [[Wikipedia:Sun|Suns]] and [[Wikipedia:Black holes|Black Holes]]. Assuming that FTL Jumps cover enormous distances, the above the two different jumps would place lots of unknown stellar bodies between ''Galactica'' and the Fleet, distorting space and thereby screwing up the dimension of „Distance“ in the above mentioned third set of jump-coordinates.

So in order to find the Fleet, ''Galactica'' had to jump back to the point of origin of their last jump, reacquire the Fleet's set of [[Emergency Jump Coordinates]], i.e. figure out where the Point of Origin of these coordinates was ''and'' how to orient the coordinate system used to define these coordinates. This would ensure that ''Galactica'' took approximately the same route as the Fleet did, thereby passing the same stellar bodies along the way and ending up in the vicinity of the Fleet.

==Notes==
#{{note|tigh}} This much is explained by Col. Tigh to his wife Ellen in "Scattered“.
#{{note|velocity}} This can be seen in the Miniseries immedeately after Galactica jumps to Ragnar.
# In the [[Miniseries]], Colonel Tigh gives the impression that an FTL jump hasn't taken place in some 20 years and would be inadvisable. Given the preponderance of ships with FTL drives (some 63 comprising the suriving Colonial fleet alone ([[33]]). Tigh was probably referring to the last time ''[[Galactica]]'' herself made an FTL jump.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Terminology]]

Talk:FTL/Archive 1

2006-06-01T10:25:14Z

Rafale: /* New Sections: "Jump Calculations" & "What happened in "Scattered"? */

Talk:FTL/Archive 1

2006-06-01T10:24:45Z

Rafale: /* New Sections: "Jump Calculations" & "What happened in "Scattered"? */

==Multiple Jumps in Cylon Raider==
:''However, it is far more likely that Starbuck had to make a series of jumps back to Caprica (especially given the condition she was in upon arrival) witch would indicate that the Cylon Raiders FTL-range is not that extremely superior.''

While plausible, that's clearly ''not'' the implication of the on-screen events, IMO. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:32, 27 September 2005 (EDT)

==My Big Problem With FTL==
I have a big problem with the FTL drives in the BSG universe and thats how many times they can jump before they refuel. In the episode 33, we see the fleet make over 250 consecutive jumps. Would it make sense for a 747 airliner to make that many consecutive flights w/o refueling? Fuel tanks would have to have a huge capacity to make that many jumps. Why would you design such a large fuel tank into a commercial transport like Colonial One. Every extra pound put into the vessel is one extra pound to push out of orbit. Jumping MUST require a considerable ammount of fuel or getting it wouldn't be an issue. I can understand a large fuel tank in something like a transport vessel or a mining ship, but not a starliner, its just not practical. I wouldnt normally complain about something like this, but given RDM's goal of making a 'realistic' sci-fi show, it bothers me. Are there any explinations for the capability to jump that many times?--Antagonist

I see no logical disconect in any of the things you've just stated. It all simply makes sense to me, as well as seems realistic. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:54, 18 February 2006 (EST)

::It would be like designing a 747 with a un-refueled range of a hundred thousand miles or a car with a 500 gallon gas tank. --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 13:34, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Hmm i see your point here. However it has been stated that they do have a refinery ship, and refuels have been mentioned in prev eps. I choose to believe that unseen ships rushed around during the 33 mins..In other words, Im letting that one go with a la la la :) Also do FTL's use the same fuel as the sublight engines? Or something else? --[[User:Simmons|Simmons]] 03:34, 19 February 2006 (EST)

Well, if the Cylons were tracking by radio signals from spies in "33," then the jumps are 33 light-minutes. Maybe the Colonials were intentionally making small jumps just to try to lose the Cylons. I don't really consider it likely though, if they were jumping 33 light-minutes, you would think they would notice the 33 minute attack intervals and change up the jump lengths. But if they were making short jumps in that episode, it might be the equivalent of a trip down the block, where it's conceivable to go 300 blocks without refueling. Either that or the fuel analogy being used is a poor one and we should be comparing the usage to a nuclear powered sea vessel which can go years without changing the reactor core, but that introduces problems such as the rate of reactor usage being more steady in a nuclear reactor.--[[User:Jeremias|Jeremias]] 19:14, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Tracking an FTL Jump ==

Im not sure its been mentioned anywhere in an ep, but I assume that ships can not be tracked through an FTL jump?--[[User:Simmons|Simmons]] 03:39, 19 February 2006 (EST)
:You can't track a Jump in progress, but you can discern its destination after. This happened to the Fleet as it was tracked, presumably with a hidden [[Cylon Transponder]] on the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' in the events of "[[33]]," the first series episode. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:24, 19 February 2006 (EST)

They said in the Miniseries it is impossible to track an FTL Jump. However, the Cylons have spies and stuff with transponders in the Fleet, and they can send signals which the Cylons can then detect and Jump to. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:15, 19 February 2006 (EST)

So has there been any mention of FTL communications (doesn't seem likely in light of "The Hand of God")? Otherwise, this might limit the length of the jumps to 33 light-minutes. 33 light-minutes when making jumps every 33 minutes is arduous leads to long times to cover interstellar distances. Also, it seems like something Adama or Tigh should have noticed. "We jump 33 light-minutes, they attack every 33 minutes...what a quandry." Maybe their detecting the gravitational waves a ships arrival might produce. This is dependent on gravity having a propagation speed different from c, which hasn't been adequately explored, though the assumption and indication by some preliminary experiments is that the speeds are the same. Alternatively, the Cylons have better probed FTL phenomena than the Colonials and discovered ways to track jumps.
--[[User:Jeremias|Jeremias]] 19:06, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== New Sections: "Jump Calculations" & "What happened in "Scattered"? ==

hi all,

this is my second substantial contribution to battlestarwiki. i tried to make sense
of what happened in [[Scattered|Scattered]], using good old wikipedia and my knowledge about sci-fi technology lore, especially from the works of [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimov|Isaac Asimov]], to create something new.
Please let me know what you think.
--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 10:30, 1. June 2006 (GMT +1)

: Hiya. First off, if you want to do a direct html link, just use the one set of brackets and no pipe for renaming the link (<nowiki>[http://www.japanesepod101.com/ Japanese Podcast]</nowiki> renders [http://www.japanesepod101.com/ Japanese Podcast]). Second, When linking Wikipedia, you can pretend like Wikipedia is a namespace here and do this: <nowiki>[[Wikipedia:Isaac Asimov|Isaac Asimov]]</nowiki>, which will render this: [[Wikipedia:Isaac Asimov|Isaac Asimov]]. Handy trick, that last. And, thirdly, there seems to be something odd going on with yout quotes (" and "), at least the way my computer renders them. Are you using some kind of international keyboard settings or something?

: Anyway, on to the actual content. I liked it. I'm not super familiar with the BSG FTL theory, so someone else will have to double check the accuracy, but the general thrust of the additions were good. I think this illustraits one of the wonderful things about Wikis. A user like you can come in and dump content, even if it's a little rough around the edges, and others (like me) can come and polish a bit and then, viola (or cello, if you like), the article is shiney ''and'' has lots of good content. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 03:40, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks for the tip! I´m still not completely hip to all the different sorts of syntax commands there are, and that wikipedia referencing command is definetly a gem! Of course I´ll try and make my future contributions as polished as possible, so other users can actually think about the content and not the style. Ad Quotes: I was using a german QWERTZ-keyboard, but i think the reason for the funny quotes lies in my using WORD97 to write the article and then copy-pasting it into the editor provided by battlestarwiki. that means that lower case quotes were pasted as well. Gonna use wordpad or textedit next time instead.--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 11:33, 1 June 2006 (GMT +1)

::: I added a schematical diagram in "What happened in "Scattered"?" to illustrate the hypothesis. I know it´s ugly and it´s not exactly "Sci-Fi" Layout. Feel free to replace or delete if it hurts your eyes.--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 12:25, 1 June 2006 (GMT +1)

FTL

2006-06-01T10:22:31Z

Rafale: /* What happened in "Scattered"? */ Added explanatory diagram

==Introduction==

Acronym for Faster-than-Light. This is a term used to describe a means of astral propulsion utilized by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonials]]. The standard term for FTL travel is '''"jump."'''

The FTL drive makes interstellar travel possible for both the Colonials and [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. No longer confined to their own home solar system, the Cylons managed to avoid Colonial interference for 40 years after the [[Cylon War]] and establish their own homeworld. However, not all ships -- from small to large -- are outfitted with these drives ([[Miniseries]]). It's likely that FTL drives are not commonplace on many civilian ships because of the costs involved in using and maintaining the drive and the amount of [[tyllium|fuel]] available. For some civilian ships that travel comparatively short distances between some destinations, such as the ill-fated [[Botanical Cruiser]], FTL may simply be impractical or unnecessary.

The technology behind FTL systems is such that, providing the relevant data is known, ships can jump with a high degree of accuracy, allowing ships to rendezvous in space and even "park" in a synchronous orbit directly above a given point on a planet's surface ([[Miniseries]]). Proper FTL use even enables vessels to arrive in crowded areas, such as the middle of an asteroid field or other ships, without the risk of collision and damage ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

No specific information on the technology of an FTL drive has been given in the Miniseries or regular series. We know only that ''Galactica'' has two FTL drives, and that other smaller or civilian ships have a single drive. We also know from dialogue that the FTL drives on ''Galactica'' are "spun up", suggesting a use of electromagnetic or centrifugal energies that may serve in creating the fields or forces needed to activate the engines.

== Colonial Limitations ==

* Colonial FTL systems are not small-scale, and cannot be installed into vehicles such as the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]. They can, however, be used on vehicles the size of a [[Raptor]], which is limited to brief, short-distance jumps. Raptors can make a sequence of short FTL "hops" in a row, to reach the same destination as a capital ship with a full-sized FTL drive ([[Miniseries]]).
* Colonial FTL systems cannot be used multiple times over a long period of time, for they are prone to breakdown after excessive, repetitive use ([[33]]).
* FTL jumps can apparently induce nausea or discomfort in some people, such as [[Cally]] ([[Miniseries]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
* The wormholes generated by Colonial drive systems are limited in size; this defines the maximum size to which a colonial vessel can be built (hence the need for [[Battlestar|battlestars]] to retract their landing pods and reduce their overall cross-section prior to a jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], etc.).
* Colonial FTL systems appear to be a holdover from the [[History of the Twelve Colonies#Exodus|Exodus]] from [[Kobol]], and their current designs have been developed to meet the needs of jumping between the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], as their outposts in other [[Troy|star systems]]. Colonial FTL capabilities have defined limits, referred to as the [[Red Line]], beyond which jumps may not be possible / could result in damage to a vessel's drive system / lead to navigational inaccuracies that might put the ship at risk.
* Navigators must be careful to plan FTL jump paths so as not to get too close to planets or other large objects, as they can be dangerous ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Knowing the limitations of their own FTL drives, a team apparently led by Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] successfully refitted a [[Raptor]] with the FTL drive from a captured [[Heavy Raider]] (presumably the one used by [[Kara Thrace]] to return from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]"). They later use this drive's data (with the aid of the cooperative copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]) to coordinate a squadron of Raptors to fly back to Caprica for a rescue mission to retrieve a [[resistance (movement)|team of resistance fighters there]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Despite the accuracy of the advanced Cylon FTL drive and Valerii's aid in marking the Jumps, two Raptors do not complete the mission. One obtains corrupted Jump data and finds itself within a nebula and a undiscovered [[New Caprica|habitable planet]], and is forced to return to the Fleet. The second Raptor also gets corrupted coordinates and materializes inside a nearby mountain on the final Jump intra-atmosphere into Caprica, with a loss of ship and crew.

== Cylon Advantage ==

* Cylon FTL systems can be manufactured on a smaller scale to their Colonial equivalent, thus allowing the [[Cylon Raider]] to be outfitted with an FTL drive. ([[Miniseries]]).
* Cylon FTL drive systems are far more efficient than their Colonial equivalent. Tests with the Raider captured by the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]) demonstrated that the drive could enable the Raider to jump directly from the vicinity of [[Kobol]] back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]) - a jump completed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] during her search for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).
* The extreme ranges over which Cylon vessels can jump would indicate that Cylon navigation systems are far better integrated with their FTL system to enable such long-distance jumps to be accurately plotted.
* Given that the Cylons left Colonial space to find their own planet, it is possible that their longer-range FTL capability was created in response to a desire to be able to cover the distance between their adoptive homeworld and those of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] with a single jump.

==Background to FTL in New BSG==
In establishing the series the creators of the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] determined to keep everything within the show very "[[Naturalistic science fiction|natural]]". This means steering away from the standard clichés of television science-fiction: no bumpy-head aliens, no remarkable technology such as matter/anti-matter conversion, etc. So how is the concept of faster-than-light travel possible within this precept?

===Underpinning Theories===

[[Image:Wormhole-demo.png|thumb|FTL: "Folding Space" (credit: Wikipedia)]]
The FTL drive technology used within the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] appears to be based on the use of [[Wikipedia:Superstring Theory|Superstring Theory]] and [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] that essentially enable the "jump drive" systems to "fold" space, reducing the distance between any two points by creating a "corridor" through space that links them together (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge). Such "corridors" are allowed by the general theory of relativity; what [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] does is provide a way to change the topology of spacetime dynamically.

The use of such Wormholes is based on the tenet that space is curved. Hence the term "[[Wikipedia:Wormhole|wormhole]]", which arises from the analogy that space can be seen as an apple. A worm can travel from one side of the apple to the other in two ways:
* By crawling over the surface, or
* By burrowing through the apple (creating a "wormhole").
Obviously, the second option is considerably shorter than the first.

===Relativistic Acceleration===
A key point concerning the use of wormholes within the new Battlestar Galactica, is that they do not break the fundamental limiting factor of our universe: the speed of light. Vessels in the new Battlestar Galactica series do not accelerate to faster-than-light velocities. Rather, they use the wormhole to reduce the distance to their destination, thus giving the ''impression'' of faster-than-light travel.

This is the reason why FTL jumps are virtually instantaneous within episodes (e.g.[[33]]). It also means that the only ''direct'' form of propulsion available for vessels is generated by their [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight drive systems]]. In turn, this is why vessels exiting from a jump are seen to be travelling at the same velocity as when they committed to the jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]], etc.)

===Feasibility===
While the use of wormholes in this manner is not currently possible, work is progressing on superstring and M-Theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future. The limiting factor is the ability to generate negative energy densities, which are allowed (though severely restricted) by quantum mechanics. As such, the use of such systems again meets one of the stated desires of the the producers of the new Battlestar Galactica: not to rely on the "traditional" trappings of science-fiction that require exotic science and technology. Theoretical physicist [[Wikipedia:Kip Thorne|Kip Thorne]] has carried out extensive research into wormholes, and helped develop a scientifically-consistent means of wormhole travel used by [[Wikipedia:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] in his novel [[Wikipedia:Contact (novel)|"Contact"]] which bears a remarkable similarity to the technology employed within Battlestar Galactica.

==Jump Calculations==
Based on deduction from information gleaned in [[Scattered|Scattered]], a set of Jump Coordinates used to execute an FTL-Jump "tells" the Jump Drive to fold space along a vector of three dimensions:

*Elevation
*Rotation
*Distance

Here, the dimension of Distance would represent more than just a straight line, plotted through three-dimensional space but the amount of space curvature that the jump drive would have to fold.

A possible algorithm for jump calculations would therefore necessitate first and foremost the figuring out of the exact location of the ship, relative to its intended point of arival after the jump. This is done by identifying, fixing and triangulating several stars. {{ref|tigh}}

Next, the ship's position relative to the intended point of arrival would be [[Wikipedia:Point plotting|plotted]] on a three-dimensional [[Wikipedia:Cartesian coordinate system|Carthesian coordinate system]], using the ship as its [[Wikipedia:Origin (mathematics)|point of origin]], i.e. (0/0/0).

Then, the positions of any known stellar bodies and other obstacles would have to be plotted on that coordinate system as well, in order to establish where to jump and where ''not'' to jump.

Finally, the point of arrival would likewise be plotted. The hard part in making a single jump over long distances, like to Ragnar in the Miniseries, would therefore lie not so much in getting the jump drive to fold space correctly, as in correctly figuring out where possible obstacles, such as a sun or a black hole, are located and then adjusting the direction of the jump accordingly, so as to land the ship in a clear volume of space.

==What happened in "Scattered"?==
[[Image:jump calculations.jpg|thumb|left|Schematic Diagram showing the three different sets of Jump Coordinates]]
In "[[Scattered]]", [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']] and the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] executed jumps according to different sets of coordinates. As a consequence, ''Galactica'' had to jump back along its original jump vector, to the former point of origin of the two jumps, reacquire the former starfixes and calculate a best-fit solution given the Fleet's current position.

At first glance, this seems counter-intuitive. Since presumably both sets of jump coordinates were known to ''Galactica'', a simple triangulation of the two jump vectors would have produced a third set of jump-coordinates which should have allowed ''Galactica'' to jump to the Fleet directly.
A possible explanation for the complications that arise in such a case may lie in the [[Wikipedia:General Relativity|"Curvature" of space]] and the fact that ships retain their initial velocity through a jump{{ref|velocity}}.

Space is not flat, but distorted by stellar masses, especially [[Wikipedia:Sun|Suns]] and [[Wikipedia:Black holes|Black Holes]]. Assuming that FTL Jumps cover enormous distances, the above the two different jumps would place lots of unknown stellar bodies between ''Galactica'' and the Fleet, distorting space and thereby screwing up the dimension of „Distance“ in the above mentioned third set of jump-coordinates.

So in order to find the Fleet, ''Galactica'' had to jump back to the point of origin of their last jump, reacquire the Fleet's set of [[Emergency Jump Coordinates]], i.e. figure out where the Point of Origin of these coordinates was ''and'' how to orient the coordinate system used to define these coordinates. This would ensure that ''Galactica'' took approximately the same route as the Fleet did, thereby passing the same stellar bodies along the way and ending up in the vicinity of the Fleet.

==Notes==
#{{note|tigh}} This much is explained by Col. Tigh to his wife Ellen in "Scattered“.
#{{note|velocity}} This can be seen in the Miniseries immedeately after Galactica jumps to Ragnar.
# In the [[Miniseries]], Colonel Tigh gives the impression that an FTL jump hasn't taken place in some 20 years and would be inadvisable. Given the preponderance of ships with FTL drives (some 63 comprising the suriving Colonial fleet alone ([[33]]). Tigh was probably referring to the last time ''[[Galactica]]'' herself made an FTL jump.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Terminology]]

Talk:FTL/Archive 1

2006-06-01T09:33:20Z

Rafale: /* New Sections: "Jump Calculations" & "What happened in "Scattered"? */

User:Rafale

2006-06-01T08:35:57Z

Rafale:

Rafale is a geek from Vienna, Austria.
He´s bigtime into Sci-Fi, especially the more intellectual stuff like:
*Good ole Jules Verne
*Stanislaw Lem
*Isaac Asimov
*Frank Herbert
*Philip K. Dick
*William Gibson
*Neal Stephenson

and of course:

*Battlestar Galactica (RDM)

He´s also something of a wikiholic, more in the sense of consuming great big amounts of knowledge as in acutally contributing them. But maybe he can contribute to Battlestarwiki.

User:Rafale

2006-06-01T08:34:53Z

Rafale:

Rafale is a geek from Vienna, Austria.
He´s bigtime into Sci-Fi, especially the more intellectual stuff like:
*Good ole Jules Verne
*Stanislaw Lem
*Isaac Asimov
*Philip K. Dick
*William Gibson
*Neal Stephenson

and of course:

*Battlestar Galactica (RDM)

He´s also something of a wikiholic, more in the sense of consuming great big amounts of knowledge as in acutally contributing them. But maybe he can contribute to Battlestarwiki.

Talk:FTL/Archive 1

2006-06-01T08:30:38Z

Rafale: /* New Sections: "Jump Calculations" & "What happened in "Scattered"? */

Talk:FTL/Archive 1

2006-06-01T08:29:27Z

Rafale: /* New Sections: "Jump Calculations" & "What happened in "Scattered"? */

Talk:FTL/Archive 1

2006-06-01T08:29:03Z

Rafale: /* New Sections: "Jump Calculations" & "What happened in "Scattered"? */

Talk:FTL/Archive 1

2006-06-01T08:28:13Z

Rafale: New Sections: "Jump Calculations" & "What happened in "Scattered"?

Talk:Emergency jump coordinates/Archive 1

2006-06-01T08:24:19Z

Rafale: Thanks for the great feedback!

== Wikipedia Link Tip ==
I was going to change the wikipedia [[Wikipedia:Greek alphabet|Greek alphabet]] link to look like this one, but I noticed you're actually referencing the [[Colonial wireless alphabet]] (which we have an article on). Not that "internal" links can have spaces in them (when you use the double brackets). Only "external" (single bracket) links are picky about using underscores. This article still may not survive, but asking for Spencerian's assistance with it was a great way to start, and I definitely learned something by reading it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:44, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

== Comments on New Article ==

I think Rafale did very well with his first article. I wanted to see what he had in mind before suggesting that his information might best be incorporated into [[FTL]]. The information is sourced right, and it defines something we haven't discussed here, with extensions into probable use in past and "present." The article also plays well with other articles that are essentially orphaned (and thus, candidates for deletion themselves) without it: [[Colonial wireless alphabet]] and [[Actual]]. The deletion tag here wasn't appropriate (again, we choose to incorporate rather than delete; perhaps use the "Merge" tag next time, Merv) so it's gone.

Rafale, do visit the Standards and Conventions article as well as other articles on wiki formatting and policy for this place; it sometimes does things different from, say, Wikipedia. Otherwise, nice work, and thanks for the contribution. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:49, 31 May 2006 (CDT)

: I love the sourcing. It might stand to be cross-linked better, or have direct quotes, but the instinct about what needs it is right on. I also liked the inclusion of the number of times the whole emergency jump thing has been used. Makes for easier verification. This might could stand to be merged, but I don't know that it ''needs'' to be. I'll let others weigh in on that before I go adding links to episodes or whatever. --[[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|Talk]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|Admin]]) 00:19, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

:Yes, this is certainly a pleasant addition. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:13, 1 June 2006 (CDT)

== Thanks for the great feedback! ==

Hi all, thank you very much for your feedback! I´m happy to have contributed something useful. Please excuse the errors in layout that i made, i´m not completely hip yet to the layouting practices you guys have set up.

FTL

2006-06-01T08:20:22Z

Rafale: /* What happened in „Scattered“? */

==Introduction==

Acronym for Faster-than-Light. This is a term used to describe a means of astral propulsion utilized by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonials]]. The standard term for FTL travel is '''"jump."'''

The FTL drive makes interstellar travel possible for both the Colonials and [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. No longer confined to their own home solar system, the Cylons managed to avoid Colonial interference for 40 years after the [[Cylon War]] and establish their own homeworld. However, not all ships -- from small to large -- are outfitted with these drives ([[Miniseries]]). It's likely that FTL drives are not commonplace on many civilian ships because of the costs involved in using and maintaining the drive and the amount of [[tyllium|fuel]] available. For some civilian ships that travel comparatively short distances between some destinations, such as the ill-fated [[Botanical Cruiser]], FTL may simply be impractical or unnecessary.

The technology behind FTL systems is such that, providing the relevant data is known, ships can jump with a high degree of accuracy, allowing ships to rendezvous in space and even "park" in a synchronous orbit directly above a given point on a planet's surface ([[Miniseries]]). Proper FTL use even enables vessels to arrive in crowded areas, such as the middle of an asteroid field or other ships, without the risk of collision and damage ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

No specific information on the technology of an FTL drive has been given in the Miniseries or regular series. We know only that ''Galactica'' has two FTL drives, and that other smaller or civilian ships have a single drive. We also know from dialogue that the FTL drives on ''Galactica'' are "spun up", suggesting a use of electromagnetic or centrifugal energies that may serve in creating the fields or forces needed to activate the engines.

== Colonial Limitations ==

* Colonial FTL systems are not small-scale, and cannot be installed into vehicles such as the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]. They can, however, be used on vehicles the size of a [[Raptor]], which is limited to brief, short-distance jumps. Raptors can make a sequence of short FTL "hops" in a row, to reach the same destination as a capital ship with a full-sized FTL drive ([[Miniseries]]).
* Colonial FTL systems cannot be used multiple times over a long period of time, for they are prone to breakdown after excessive, repetitive use ([[33]]).
* FTL jumps can apparently induce nausea or discomfort in some people, such as [[Cally]] ([[Miniseries]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
* The wormholes generated by Colonial drive systems are limited in size; this defines the maximum size to which a colonial vessel can be built (hence the need for [[Battlestar|battlestars]] to retract their landing pods and reduce their overall cross-section prior to a jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], etc.).
* Colonial FTL systems appear to be a holdover from the [[History of the Twelve Colonies#Exodus|Exodus]] from [[Kobol]], and their current designs have been developed to meet the needs of jumping between the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], as their outposts in other [[Troy|star systems]]. Colonial FTL capabilities have defined limits, referred to as the [[Red Line]], beyond which jumps may not be possible / could result in damage to a vessel's drive system / lead to navigational inaccuracies that might put the ship at risk.
* Navigators must be careful to plan FTL jump paths so as not to get too close to planets or other large objects, as they can be dangerous ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Knowing the limitations of their own FTL drives, a team apparently led by Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] successfully refitted a [[Raptor]] with the FTL drive from a captured [[Heavy Raider]] (presumably the one used by [[Kara Thrace]] to return from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]"). They later use this drive's data (with the aid of the cooperative copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]) to coordinate a squadron of Raptors to fly back to Caprica for a rescue mission to retrieve a [[resistance (movement)|team of resistance fighters there]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Despite the accuracy of the advanced Cylon FTL drive and Valerii's aid in marking the Jumps, two Raptors do not complete the mission. One obtains corrupted Jump data and finds itself within a nebula and a undiscovered [[New Caprica|habitable planet]], and is forced to return to the Fleet. The second Raptor also gets corrupted coordinates and materializes inside a nearby mountain on the final Jump intra-atmosphere into Caprica, with a loss of ship and crew.

== Cylon Advantage ==

* Cylon FTL systems can be manufactured on a smaller scale to their Colonial equivalent, thus allowing the [[Cylon Raider]] to be outfitted with an FTL drive. ([[Miniseries]]).
* Cylon FTL drive systems are far more efficient than their Colonial equivalent. Tests with the Raider captured by the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]) demonstrated that the drive could enable the Raider to jump directly from the vicinity of [[Kobol]] back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]) - a jump completed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] during her search for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).
* The extreme ranges over which Cylon vessels can jump would indicate that Cylon navigation systems are far better integrated with their FTL system to enable such long-distance jumps to be accurately plotted.
* Given that the Cylons left Colonial space to find their own planet, it is possible that their longer-range FTL capability was created in response to a desire to be able to cover the distance between their adoptive homeworld and those of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] with a single jump.

==Background to FTL in New BSG==
In establishing the series the creators of the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] determined to keep everything within the show very "[[Naturalistic science fiction|natural]]". This means steering away from the standard clichés of television science-fiction: no bumpy-head aliens, no remarkable technology such as matter/anti-matter conversion, etc. So how is the concept of faster-than-light travel possible within this precept?

===Underpinning Theories===

[[Image:Wormhole-demo.png|thumb|FTL: "Folding Space" (credit: Wikipedia)]]
The FTL drive technology used within the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] appears to be based on the use of [[Wikipedia:Superstring Theory|Superstring Theory]] and [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] that essentially enable the "jump drive" systems to "fold" space, reducing the distance between any two points by creating a "corridor" through space that links them together (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge). Such "corridors" are allowed by the general theory of relativity; what [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] does is provide a way to change the topology of spacetime dynamically.

The use of such Wormholes is based on the tenet that space is curved. Hence the term "[[Wikipedia:Wormhole|wormhole]]", which arises from the analogy that space can be seen as an apple. A worm can travel from one side of the apple to the other in two ways:
* By crawling over the surface, or
* By burrowing through the apple (creating a "wormhole").
Obviously, the second option is considerably shorter than the first.

===Relativistic Acceleration===
A key point concerning the use of wormholes within the new Battlestar Galactica, is that they do not break the fundamental limiting factor of our universe: the speed of light. Vessels in the new Battlestar Galactica series do not accelerate to faster-than-light velocities. Rather, they use the wormhole to reduce the distance to their destination, thus giving the ''impression'' of faster-than-light travel.

This is the reason why FTL jumps are virtually instantaneous within episodes (e.g.[[33]]). It also means that the only ''direct'' form of propulsion available for vessels is generated by their [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight drive systems]]. In turn, this is why vessels exiting from a jump are seen to be travelling at the same velocity as when they committed to the jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]], etc.)

===Feasibility===
While the use of wormholes in this manner is not currently possible, work is progressing on superstring and M-Theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future. The limiting factor is the ability to generate negative energy densities, which are allowed (though severely restricted) by quantum mechanics. As such, the use of such systems again meets one of the stated desires of the the producers of the new Battlestar Galactica: not to rely on the "traditional" trappings of science-fiction that require exotic science and technology. Theoretical physicist [[Wikipedia:Kip Thorne|Kip Thorne]] has carried out extensive research into wormholes, and helped develop a scientifically-consistent means of wormhole travel used by [[Wikipedia:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] in his novel [[Wikipedia:Contact (novel)|"Contact"]] which bears a remarkable similarity to the technology employed within Battlestar Galactica.

==Jump Calculations==
Based on deduction from information gleaned in [[Scattered|Scattered]], a set of Jump Coordinates used to execute an FTL-Jump "tells" the Jump Drive to fold space along a vector of three dimensions:

*Elevation
*Rotation
*Distance

Here, the dimension of Distance would represent more than just a straight line, plotted through three-dimensional space but the amount of space curvature that the jump drive would have to fold.

A possible algorithm for jump calculations would therefore necessitate first and foremost the figuring out of the exact location of the ship, relative to its intended point of arival after the jump. This is done by identifying, fixing and triangulating several stars. {{ref|tigh}}

Next, the ship´s position relative to the intended point of arrival would be [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_plotting| plotted]] on a three-dimensional [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_coordinate_system| carthesian coordinate system]], using the ship as its [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_%28mathematics%29| point of origin]], i.e. (0/0/0).

Then, the positions of any known stellar bodies and other obstacles would have to be plotted on that coordinate system as well, in order to establish where to jump and where ''not'' to jump.

Finally, the point of arrival would likewise be plotted. The hard part in making a single jump over long distances, like to Ragnar in the Miniseries, would therefore lie not so much in getting the jump drive to fold space correctly, as in correctly figuring out where possible obstacles, such as a sun or a black hole, are located and then adjusting the direction of the jump accordingly, so as to land the ship in a clear volume of space.

==What happened in „Scattered“?==
In [[Scattered|Scattered]], [[Galactica|''Galactica'']] and the [[Fleet|Fleet]] executed jumps according to different sets of coordinates. As a consequence, ''Galactica'' had to jump back along its original jump vector, to the former point of origin of the two jumps, reacquire the former starfixes and calculate a best-fit solution given the Fleet´s current position.
At first glance, this seems counter-intuitive. Since presumably both sets of jump coordinates were known to ''Galactica'', a simple triangulation of the two jump vectors would have produced a third set of jump-coordinates which should have allowed ''Galactica'' to jump to the Fleet directly.
A possible explanation for the complications that arise in such a case may lie in the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Relativity| „Curvature of space“]] and the fact that ships retain their initial velocity through a jump{{ref|velocity}}.
Space is not flat, but distorted by stellar masses, especially [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun |Suns]] and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes| Black Holes]]. Assuming that FTL Jumps cover enormous distances, the above the two different jumps would place lots of unknown stellar bodies between ''Galactica'' and the Fleet, distorting space and thereby screwing up the dimension of „Distance“ in the above mentioned third set of jump-coordinates.

So in order to find the Fleet, ''Galactica'' had to jump back to the point of origin of their last jump, reacquire the Fleet´s set of [[Emergency_Jump_Coordinates| Emergency Jump Coordinates]], i.e. figure out where the Point of Origin of these coordinates was ''and'' how to orient the coordinate system used to define these coordinates. This would ensure that ''Galactica'' took approximately the same route as the Fleet did, thereby passing the same stellar bodies along the way and ending up in the vicinity of the Fleet.

==Notes==
# In the [[Miniseries]], Colonel Tigh gives the impression that an FTL jump hasn't taken place in some 20 years and would be inadvisable. Given the preponderance of ships with FTL drives (some 63 comprising the suriving Colonial fleet alone ([[33]]). Tigh was probably referring to the last time ''[[Galactica]]'' herself made an FTL jump.

#{{note|tigh}} This much is explained by Col. Tigh to his wife Ellen in „Scattered“.
#{{note|velocity}} This can be seen in the Miniseries immedeately after Galactica jumps to Ragnar.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Terminology]]

FTL

2006-06-01T08:16:17Z

Rafale: /* Jump Calculations */

==Introduction==

Acronym for Faster-than-Light. This is a term used to describe a means of astral propulsion utilized by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonials]]. The standard term for FTL travel is '''"jump."'''

The FTL drive makes interstellar travel possible for both the Colonials and [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. No longer confined to their own home solar system, the Cylons managed to avoid Colonial interference for 40 years after the [[Cylon War]] and establish their own homeworld. However, not all ships -- from small to large -- are outfitted with these drives ([[Miniseries]]). It's likely that FTL drives are not commonplace on many civilian ships because of the costs involved in using and maintaining the drive and the amount of [[tyllium|fuel]] available. For some civilian ships that travel comparatively short distances between some destinations, such as the ill-fated [[Botanical Cruiser]], FTL may simply be impractical or unnecessary.

The technology behind FTL systems is such that, providing the relevant data is known, ships can jump with a high degree of accuracy, allowing ships to rendezvous in space and even "park" in a synchronous orbit directly above a given point on a planet's surface ([[Miniseries]]). Proper FTL use even enables vessels to arrive in crowded areas, such as the middle of an asteroid field or other ships, without the risk of collision and damage ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

No specific information on the technology of an FTL drive has been given in the Miniseries or regular series. We know only that ''Galactica'' has two FTL drives, and that other smaller or civilian ships have a single drive. We also know from dialogue that the FTL drives on ''Galactica'' are "spun up", suggesting a use of electromagnetic or centrifugal energies that may serve in creating the fields or forces needed to activate the engines.

== Colonial Limitations ==

* Colonial FTL systems are not small-scale, and cannot be installed into vehicles such as the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]. They can, however, be used on vehicles the size of a [[Raptor]], which is limited to brief, short-distance jumps. Raptors can make a sequence of short FTL "hops" in a row, to reach the same destination as a capital ship with a full-sized FTL drive ([[Miniseries]]).
* Colonial FTL systems cannot be used multiple times over a long period of time, for they are prone to breakdown after excessive, repetitive use ([[33]]).
* FTL jumps can apparently induce nausea or discomfort in some people, such as [[Cally]] ([[Miniseries]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
* The wormholes generated by Colonial drive systems are limited in size; this defines the maximum size to which a colonial vessel can be built (hence the need for [[Battlestar|battlestars]] to retract their landing pods and reduce their overall cross-section prior to a jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], etc.).
* Colonial FTL systems appear to be a holdover from the [[History of the Twelve Colonies#Exodus|Exodus]] from [[Kobol]], and their current designs have been developed to meet the needs of jumping between the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], as their outposts in other [[Troy|star systems]]. Colonial FTL capabilities have defined limits, referred to as the [[Red Line]], beyond which jumps may not be possible / could result in damage to a vessel's drive system / lead to navigational inaccuracies that might put the ship at risk.
* Navigators must be careful to plan FTL jump paths so as not to get too close to planets or other large objects, as they can be dangerous ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Knowing the limitations of their own FTL drives, a team apparently led by Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] successfully refitted a [[Raptor]] with the FTL drive from a captured [[Heavy Raider]] (presumably the one used by [[Kara Thrace]] to return from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]"). They later use this drive's data (with the aid of the cooperative copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]) to coordinate a squadron of Raptors to fly back to Caprica for a rescue mission to retrieve a [[resistance (movement)|team of resistance fighters there]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Despite the accuracy of the advanced Cylon FTL drive and Valerii's aid in marking the Jumps, two Raptors do not complete the mission. One obtains corrupted Jump data and finds itself within a nebula and a undiscovered [[New Caprica|habitable planet]], and is forced to return to the Fleet. The second Raptor also gets corrupted coordinates and materializes inside a nearby mountain on the final Jump intra-atmosphere into Caprica, with a loss of ship and crew.

== Cylon Advantage ==

* Cylon FTL systems can be manufactured on a smaller scale to their Colonial equivalent, thus allowing the [[Cylon Raider]] to be outfitted with an FTL drive. ([[Miniseries]]).
* Cylon FTL drive systems are far more efficient than their Colonial equivalent. Tests with the Raider captured by the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]) demonstrated that the drive could enable the Raider to jump directly from the vicinity of [[Kobol]] back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]) - a jump completed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] during her search for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).
* The extreme ranges over which Cylon vessels can jump would indicate that Cylon navigation systems are far better integrated with their FTL system to enable such long-distance jumps to be accurately plotted.
* Given that the Cylons left Colonial space to find their own planet, it is possible that their longer-range FTL capability was created in response to a desire to be able to cover the distance between their adoptive homeworld and those of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] with a single jump.

==Background to FTL in New BSG==
In establishing the series the creators of the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] determined to keep everything within the show very "[[Naturalistic science fiction|natural]]". This means steering away from the standard clichés of television science-fiction: no bumpy-head aliens, no remarkable technology such as matter/anti-matter conversion, etc. So how is the concept of faster-than-light travel possible within this precept?

===Underpinning Theories===

[[Image:Wormhole-demo.png|thumb|FTL: "Folding Space" (credit: Wikipedia)]]
The FTL drive technology used within the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] appears to be based on the use of [[Wikipedia:Superstring Theory|Superstring Theory]] and [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] that essentially enable the "jump drive" systems to "fold" space, reducing the distance between any two points by creating a "corridor" through space that links them together (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge). Such "corridors" are allowed by the general theory of relativity; what [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] does is provide a way to change the topology of spacetime dynamically.

The use of such Wormholes is based on the tenet that space is curved. Hence the term "[[Wikipedia:Wormhole|wormhole]]", which arises from the analogy that space can be seen as an apple. A worm can travel from one side of the apple to the other in two ways:
* By crawling over the surface, or
* By burrowing through the apple (creating a "wormhole").
Obviously, the second option is considerably shorter than the first.

===Relativistic Acceleration===
A key point concerning the use of wormholes within the new Battlestar Galactica, is that they do not break the fundamental limiting factor of our universe: the speed of light. Vessels in the new Battlestar Galactica series do not accelerate to faster-than-light velocities. Rather, they use the wormhole to reduce the distance to their destination, thus giving the ''impression'' of faster-than-light travel.

This is the reason why FTL jumps are virtually instantaneous within episodes (e.g.[[33]]). It also means that the only ''direct'' form of propulsion available for vessels is generated by their [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight drive systems]]. In turn, this is why vessels exiting from a jump are seen to be travelling at the same velocity as when they committed to the jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]], etc.)

===Feasibility===
While the use of wormholes in this manner is not currently possible, work is progressing on superstring and M-Theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future. The limiting factor is the ability to generate negative energy densities, which are allowed (though severely restricted) by quantum mechanics. As such, the use of such systems again meets one of the stated desires of the the producers of the new Battlestar Galactica: not to rely on the "traditional" trappings of science-fiction that require exotic science and technology. Theoretical physicist [[Wikipedia:Kip Thorne|Kip Thorne]] has carried out extensive research into wormholes, and helped develop a scientifically-consistent means of wormhole travel used by [[Wikipedia:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] in his novel [[Wikipedia:Contact (novel)|"Contact"]] which bears a remarkable similarity to the technology employed within Battlestar Galactica.

==Jump Calculations==
Based on deduction from information gleaned in [[Scattered|Scattered]], a set of Jump Coordinates used to execute an FTL-Jump "tells" the Jump Drive to fold space along a vector of three dimensions:

*Elevation
*Rotation
*Distance

Here, the dimension of Distance would represent more than just a straight line, plotted through three-dimensional space but the amount of space curvature that the jump drive would have to fold.

A possible algorithm for jump calculations would therefore necessitate first and foremost the figuring out of the exact location of the ship, relative to its intended point of arival after the jump. This is done by identifying, fixing and triangulating several stars. {{ref|tigh}}

Next, the ship´s position relative to the intended point of arrival would be [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_plotting| plotted]] on a three-dimensional [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_coordinate_system| carthesian coordinate system]], using the ship as its [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_%28mathematics%29| point of origin]], i.e. (0/0/0).

Then, the positions of any known stellar bodies and other obstacles would have to be plotted on that coordinate system as well, in order to establish where to jump and where ''not'' to jump.

Finally, the point of arrival would likewise be plotted. The hard part in making a single jump over long distances, like to Ragnar in the Miniseries, would therefore lie not so much in getting the jump drive to fold space correctly, as in correctly figuring out where possible obstacles, such as a sun or a black hole, are located and then adjusting the direction of the jump accordingly, so as to land the ship in a clear volume of space.

==What happened in „Scattered“?==
In [[Scattered|Scattered]], [[Galactica|‘‘Galactica‘‘]] and the [[Fleet|Fleet]] executed jumps according to different sets of coordinates. As a consequence, Galactica had to jump back along its original jump vector, to the former point of origin of the two jumps, reacquire the former starfixes and calculate a best-fit solution given the Fleet´s current position.
At first glance, this seems counter-intuitive. Since presumably both sets of jump coordinates were known to ‘‘Galactica‘‘, a simple triangulation of the two jump vectors would have produced a third set of jump-coordinates which should have allowed ‘‘Galactica‘‘ to jump to the Fleet directly.
A possible explanation for the complications that arise in such a case may lie in the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Relativity| „Curvature of space“]] and the fact that ships retain their initial velocity through a jump{{ref|velocity}}.
Space is not flat, but distorted by stellar masses, especially [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun |Suns]] and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes| Black Holes]]. Assuming that FTL Jumps cover enormous distances, the above the two different jumps would place lots of unknown stellar bodies between ‘‘Galactica‘‘ and the Fleet, distorting space and thereby screwing up the dimension of „Distance“ in the above mentioned third set of jump-coordinates.

So in order to find the Fleet, ‘‘Galactica‘‘ had to jump back to the point of origin of their last jump, reacquire the Fleet´s set of [[Emergency_Jump_Coordinates| Emergency Jump Coordinates]], i.e. figure out where the Point of Origin of these coordinates was ‘‘and‘‘ how to orient the coordinate system used to define these coordinates. This would ensure that ‘‘Galactica‘‘ took approximately the same route as the Fleet did, thereby passing the same stellar bodies along the way and ending up in the vicinity of the Fleet.

==Notes==
# In the [[Miniseries]], Colonel Tigh gives the impression that an FTL jump hasn't taken place in some 20 years and would be inadvisable. Given the preponderance of ships with FTL drives (some 63 comprising the suriving Colonial fleet alone ([[33]]). Tigh was probably referring to the last time ''[[Galactica]]'' herself made an FTL jump.

#{{note|tigh}} This much is explained by Col. Tigh to his wife Ellen in „Scattered“.
#{{note|velocity}} This can be seen in the Miniseries immedeately after Galactica jumps to Ragnar.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Terminology]]

FTL

2006-06-01T08:11:37Z

Rafale: /* Jump Calculations */

==Introduction==

Acronym for Faster-than-Light. This is a term used to describe a means of astral propulsion utilized by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonials]]. The standard term for FTL travel is '''"jump."'''

The FTL drive makes interstellar travel possible for both the Colonials and [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. No longer confined to their own home solar system, the Cylons managed to avoid Colonial interference for 40 years after the [[Cylon War]] and establish their own homeworld. However, not all ships -- from small to large -- are outfitted with these drives ([[Miniseries]]). It's likely that FTL drives are not commonplace on many civilian ships because of the costs involved in using and maintaining the drive and the amount of [[tyllium|fuel]] available. For some civilian ships that travel comparatively short distances between some destinations, such as the ill-fated [[Botanical Cruiser]], FTL may simply be impractical or unnecessary.

The technology behind FTL systems is such that, providing the relevant data is known, ships can jump with a high degree of accuracy, allowing ships to rendezvous in space and even "park" in a synchronous orbit directly above a given point on a planet's surface ([[Miniseries]]). Proper FTL use even enables vessels to arrive in crowded areas, such as the middle of an asteroid field or other ships, without the risk of collision and damage ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

No specific information on the technology of an FTL drive has been given in the Miniseries or regular series. We know only that ''Galactica'' has two FTL drives, and that other smaller or civilian ships have a single drive. We also know from dialogue that the FTL drives on ''Galactica'' are "spun up", suggesting a use of electromagnetic or centrifugal energies that may serve in creating the fields or forces needed to activate the engines.

== Colonial Limitations ==

* Colonial FTL systems are not small-scale, and cannot be installed into vehicles such as the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]. They can, however, be used on vehicles the size of a [[Raptor]], which is limited to brief, short-distance jumps. Raptors can make a sequence of short FTL "hops" in a row, to reach the same destination as a capital ship with a full-sized FTL drive ([[Miniseries]]).
* Colonial FTL systems cannot be used multiple times over a long period of time, for they are prone to breakdown after excessive, repetitive use ([[33]]).
* FTL jumps can apparently induce nausea or discomfort in some people, such as [[Cally]] ([[Miniseries]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
* The wormholes generated by Colonial drive systems are limited in size; this defines the maximum size to which a colonial vessel can be built (hence the need for [[Battlestar|battlestars]] to retract their landing pods and reduce their overall cross-section prior to a jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], etc.).
* Colonial FTL systems appear to be a holdover from the [[History of the Twelve Colonies#Exodus|Exodus]] from [[Kobol]], and their current designs have been developed to meet the needs of jumping between the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], as their outposts in other [[Troy|star systems]]. Colonial FTL capabilities have defined limits, referred to as the [[Red Line]], beyond which jumps may not be possible / could result in damage to a vessel's drive system / lead to navigational inaccuracies that might put the ship at risk.
* Navigators must be careful to plan FTL jump paths so as not to get too close to planets or other large objects, as they can be dangerous ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Knowing the limitations of their own FTL drives, a team apparently led by Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] successfully refitted a [[Raptor]] with the FTL drive from a captured [[Heavy Raider]] (presumably the one used by [[Kara Thrace]] to return from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]"). They later use this drive's data (with the aid of the cooperative copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]) to coordinate a squadron of Raptors to fly back to Caprica for a rescue mission to retrieve a [[resistance (movement)|team of resistance fighters there]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Despite the accuracy of the advanced Cylon FTL drive and Valerii's aid in marking the Jumps, two Raptors do not complete the mission. One obtains corrupted Jump data and finds itself within a nebula and a undiscovered [[New Caprica|habitable planet]], and is forced to return to the Fleet. The second Raptor also gets corrupted coordinates and materializes inside a nearby mountain on the final Jump intra-atmosphere into Caprica, with a loss of ship and crew.

== Cylon Advantage ==

* Cylon FTL systems can be manufactured on a smaller scale to their Colonial equivalent, thus allowing the [[Cylon Raider]] to be outfitted with an FTL drive. ([[Miniseries]]).
* Cylon FTL drive systems are far more efficient than their Colonial equivalent. Tests with the Raider captured by the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]) demonstrated that the drive could enable the Raider to jump directly from the vicinity of [[Kobol]] back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]) - a jump completed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] during her search for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).
* The extreme ranges over which Cylon vessels can jump would indicate that Cylon navigation systems are far better integrated with their FTL system to enable such long-distance jumps to be accurately plotted.
* Given that the Cylons left Colonial space to find their own planet, it is possible that their longer-range FTL capability was created in response to a desire to be able to cover the distance between their adoptive homeworld and those of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] with a single jump.

==Background to FTL in New BSG==
In establishing the series the creators of the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] determined to keep everything within the show very "[[Naturalistic science fiction|natural]]". This means steering away from the standard clichés of television science-fiction: no bumpy-head aliens, no remarkable technology such as matter/anti-matter conversion, etc. So how is the concept of faster-than-light travel possible within this precept?

===Underpinning Theories===

[[Image:Wormhole-demo.png|thumb|FTL: "Folding Space" (credit: Wikipedia)]]
The FTL drive technology used within the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] appears to be based on the use of [[Wikipedia:Superstring Theory|Superstring Theory]] and [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] that essentially enable the "jump drive" systems to "fold" space, reducing the distance between any two points by creating a "corridor" through space that links them together (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge). Such "corridors" are allowed by the general theory of relativity; what [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] does is provide a way to change the topology of spacetime dynamically.

The use of such Wormholes is based on the tenet that space is curved. Hence the term "[[Wikipedia:Wormhole|wormhole]]", which arises from the analogy that space can be seen as an apple. A worm can travel from one side of the apple to the other in two ways:
* By crawling over the surface, or
* By burrowing through the apple (creating a "wormhole").
Obviously, the second option is considerably shorter than the first.

===Relativistic Acceleration===
A key point concerning the use of wormholes within the new Battlestar Galactica, is that they do not break the fundamental limiting factor of our universe: the speed of light. Vessels in the new Battlestar Galactica series do not accelerate to faster-than-light velocities. Rather, they use the wormhole to reduce the distance to their destination, thus giving the ''impression'' of faster-than-light travel.

This is the reason why FTL jumps are virtually instantaneous within episodes (e.g.[[33]]). It also means that the only ''direct'' form of propulsion available for vessels is generated by their [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight drive systems]]. In turn, this is why vessels exiting from a jump are seen to be travelling at the same velocity as when they committed to the jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]], etc.)

===Feasibility===
While the use of wormholes in this manner is not currently possible, work is progressing on superstring and M-Theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future. The limiting factor is the ability to generate negative energy densities, which are allowed (though severely restricted) by quantum mechanics. As such, the use of such systems again meets one of the stated desires of the the producers of the new Battlestar Galactica: not to rely on the "traditional" trappings of science-fiction that require exotic science and technology. Theoretical physicist [[Wikipedia:Kip Thorne|Kip Thorne]] has carried out extensive research into wormholes, and helped develop a scientifically-consistent means of wormhole travel used by [[Wikipedia:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] in his novel [[Wikipedia:Contact (novel)|"Contact"]] which bears a remarkable similarity to the technology employed within Battlestar Galactica.

==Jump Calculations==
Based on deduction from information gleaned in [[Scattered|Scattered]], a set of Jump Coordinates used to execute an FTL-Jump "tells" the Jump Drive to fold space along a vector of three dimensions:

*Elevation
*Rotation
*Distance

A possible algorithm for jump calculations would therefore necessitate first and foremost the figuring out of the exact location of the ship, relative to its intended point of arival after the jump. This is done by identifying, fixing and triangulating several stars. {{ref|tigh}}

Next, the ship´s position relative to the intended point of arrival would be [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_plotting| plotted]] on a three-dimensional [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_coordinate_system| carthesian coordinate system]], using the ship as its [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_%28mathematics%29| point of origin]], i.e. (0/0/0).

Then, the positions of any known stellar bodies and other obstacles would have to be plotted on that coordinate system.

Finally, the point of arrival would likewise be plotted. The hard part in making a single jump over long distances, like to Ragnar in the Miniseries, would therefore lie not so much in getting the jump drive to fold space correctly, as in correctly figuring out where possible obstacles, such as a sun or a black hole, are located and then adjusting the direction of the jump accordingly, so as to land the ship in a clear volume of space.

==What happened in „Scattered“?==
In [[Scattered|Scattered]], [[Galactica|‘‘Galactica‘‘]] and the [[Fleet|Fleet]] executed jumps according to different sets of coordinates. As a consequence, Galactica had to jump back along its original jump vector, to the former point of origin of the two jumps, reacquire the former starfixes and calculate a best-fit solution given the Fleet´s current position.
At first glance, this seems counter-intuitive. Since presumably both sets of jump coordinates were known to ‘‘Galactica‘‘, a simple triangulation of the two jump vectors would have produced a third set of jump-coordinates which should have allowed ‘‘Galactica‘‘ to jump to the Fleet directly.
A possible explanation for the complications that arise in such a case may lie in the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Relativity| „Curvature of space“]] and the fact that ships retain their initial velocity through a jump{{ref|velocity}}.
Space is not flat, but distorted by stellar masses, especially [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun |Suns]] and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes| Black Holes]]. Assuming that FTL Jumps cover enormous distances, the above the two different jumps would place lots of unknown stellar bodies between ‘‘Galactica‘‘ and the Fleet, distorting space and thereby screwing up the dimension of „Distance“ in the above mentioned third set of jump-coordinates.

So in order to find the Fleet, ‘‘Galactica‘‘ had to jump back to the point of origin of their last jump, reacquire the Fleet´s set of [[Emergency_Jump_Coordinates| Emergency Jump Coordinates]], i.e. figure out where the Point of Origin of these coordinates was ‘‘and‘‘ how to orient the coordinate system used to define these coordinates. This would ensure that ‘‘Galactica‘‘ took approximately the same route as the Fleet did, thereby passing the same stellar bodies along the way and ending up in the vicinity of the Fleet.

==Notes==
# In the [[Miniseries]], Colonel Tigh gives the impression that an FTL jump hasn't taken place in some 20 years and would be inadvisable. Given the preponderance of ships with FTL drives (some 63 comprising the suriving Colonial fleet alone ([[33]]). Tigh was probably referring to the last time ''[[Galactica]]'' herself made an FTL jump.

#{{note|tigh}} This much is explained by Col. Tigh to his wife Ellen in „Scattered“.
#{{note|velocity}} This can be seen in the Miniseries immedeately after Galactica jumps to Ragnar.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Terminology]]

FTL

2006-06-01T08:11:10Z

Rafale: /* Jump Calculations */ orfography

==Introduction==

Acronym for Faster-than-Light. This is a term used to describe a means of astral propulsion utilized by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonials]]. The standard term for FTL travel is '''"jump."'''

The FTL drive makes interstellar travel possible for both the Colonials and [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. No longer confined to their own home solar system, the Cylons managed to avoid Colonial interference for 40 years after the [[Cylon War]] and establish their own homeworld. However, not all ships -- from small to large -- are outfitted with these drives ([[Miniseries]]). It's likely that FTL drives are not commonplace on many civilian ships because of the costs involved in using and maintaining the drive and the amount of [[tyllium|fuel]] available. For some civilian ships that travel comparatively short distances between some destinations, such as the ill-fated [[Botanical Cruiser]], FTL may simply be impractical or unnecessary.

The technology behind FTL systems is such that, providing the relevant data is known, ships can jump with a high degree of accuracy, allowing ships to rendezvous in space and even "park" in a synchronous orbit directly above a given point on a planet's surface ([[Miniseries]]). Proper FTL use even enables vessels to arrive in crowded areas, such as the middle of an asteroid field or other ships, without the risk of collision and damage ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

No specific information on the technology of an FTL drive has been given in the Miniseries or regular series. We know only that ''Galactica'' has two FTL drives, and that other smaller or civilian ships have a single drive. We also know from dialogue that the FTL drives on ''Galactica'' are "spun up", suggesting a use of electromagnetic or centrifugal energies that may serve in creating the fields or forces needed to activate the engines.

== Colonial Limitations ==

* Colonial FTL systems are not small-scale, and cannot be installed into vehicles such as the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]. They can, however, be used on vehicles the size of a [[Raptor]], which is limited to brief, short-distance jumps. Raptors can make a sequence of short FTL "hops" in a row, to reach the same destination as a capital ship with a full-sized FTL drive ([[Miniseries]]).
* Colonial FTL systems cannot be used multiple times over a long period of time, for they are prone to breakdown after excessive, repetitive use ([[33]]).
* FTL jumps can apparently induce nausea or discomfort in some people, such as [[Cally]] ([[Miniseries]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
* The wormholes generated by Colonial drive systems are limited in size; this defines the maximum size to which a colonial vessel can be built (hence the need for [[Battlestar|battlestars]] to retract their landing pods and reduce their overall cross-section prior to a jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], etc.).
* Colonial FTL systems appear to be a holdover from the [[History of the Twelve Colonies#Exodus|Exodus]] from [[Kobol]], and their current designs have been developed to meet the needs of jumping between the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], as their outposts in other [[Troy|star systems]]. Colonial FTL capabilities have defined limits, referred to as the [[Red Line]], beyond which jumps may not be possible / could result in damage to a vessel's drive system / lead to navigational inaccuracies that might put the ship at risk.
* Navigators must be careful to plan FTL jump paths so as not to get too close to planets or other large objects, as they can be dangerous ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Knowing the limitations of their own FTL drives, a team apparently led by Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] successfully refitted a [[Raptor]] with the FTL drive from a captured [[Heavy Raider]] (presumably the one used by [[Kara Thrace]] to return from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]"). They later use this drive's data (with the aid of the cooperative copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]) to coordinate a squadron of Raptors to fly back to Caprica for a rescue mission to retrieve a [[resistance (movement)|team of resistance fighters there]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Despite the accuracy of the advanced Cylon FTL drive and Valerii's aid in marking the Jumps, two Raptors do not complete the mission. One obtains corrupted Jump data and finds itself within a nebula and a undiscovered [[New Caprica|habitable planet]], and is forced to return to the Fleet. The second Raptor also gets corrupted coordinates and materializes inside a nearby mountain on the final Jump intra-atmosphere into Caprica, with a loss of ship and crew.

== Cylon Advantage ==

* Cylon FTL systems can be manufactured on a smaller scale to their Colonial equivalent, thus allowing the [[Cylon Raider]] to be outfitted with an FTL drive. ([[Miniseries]]).
* Cylon FTL drive systems are far more efficient than their Colonial equivalent. Tests with the Raider captured by the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]) demonstrated that the drive could enable the Raider to jump directly from the vicinity of [[Kobol]] back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]) - a jump completed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] during her search for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).
* The extreme ranges over which Cylon vessels can jump would indicate that Cylon navigation systems are far better integrated with their FTL system to enable such long-distance jumps to be accurately plotted.
* Given that the Cylons left Colonial space to find their own planet, it is possible that their longer-range FTL capability was created in response to a desire to be able to cover the distance between their adoptive homeworld and those of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] with a single jump.

==Background to FTL in New BSG==
In establishing the series the creators of the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] determined to keep everything within the show very "[[Naturalistic science fiction|natural]]". This means steering away from the standard clichés of television science-fiction: no bumpy-head aliens, no remarkable technology such as matter/anti-matter conversion, etc. So how is the concept of faster-than-light travel possible within this precept?

===Underpinning Theories===

[[Image:Wormhole-demo.png|thumb|FTL: "Folding Space" (credit: Wikipedia)]]
The FTL drive technology used within the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] appears to be based on the use of [[Wikipedia:Superstring Theory|Superstring Theory]] and [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] that essentially enable the "jump drive" systems to "fold" space, reducing the distance between any two points by creating a "corridor" through space that links them together (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge). Such "corridors" are allowed by the general theory of relativity; what [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] does is provide a way to change the topology of spacetime dynamically.

The use of such Wormholes is based on the tenet that space is curved. Hence the term "[[Wikipedia:Wormhole|wormhole]]", which arises from the analogy that space can be seen as an apple. A worm can travel from one side of the apple to the other in two ways:
* By crawling over the surface, or
* By burrowing through the apple (creating a "wormhole").
Obviously, the second option is considerably shorter than the first.

===Relativistic Acceleration===
A key point concerning the use of wormholes within the new Battlestar Galactica, is that they do not break the fundamental limiting factor of our universe: the speed of light. Vessels in the new Battlestar Galactica series do not accelerate to faster-than-light velocities. Rather, they use the wormhole to reduce the distance to their destination, thus giving the ''impression'' of faster-than-light travel.

This is the reason why FTL jumps are virtually instantaneous within episodes (e.g.[[33]]). It also means that the only ''direct'' form of propulsion available for vessels is generated by their [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight drive systems]]. In turn, this is why vessels exiting from a jump are seen to be travelling at the same velocity as when they committed to the jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]], etc.)

===Feasibility===
While the use of wormholes in this manner is not currently possible, work is progressing on superstring and M-Theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future. The limiting factor is the ability to generate negative energy densities, which are allowed (though severely restricted) by quantum mechanics. As such, the use of such systems again meets one of the stated desires of the the producers of the new Battlestar Galactica: not to rely on the "traditional" trappings of science-fiction that require exotic science and technology. Theoretical physicist [[Wikipedia:Kip Thorne|Kip Thorne]] has carried out extensive research into wormholes, and helped develop a scientifically-consistent means of wormhole travel used by [[Wikipedia:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] in his novel [[Wikipedia:Contact (novel)|"Contact"]] which bears a remarkable similarity to the technology employed within Battlestar Galactica.

==Jump Calculations==
Based on deduction from information gleaned in [[Scattered|Scattered]], a set of Jump Coordinates is used to execute an FTL-Jump "tells" the Jump Drive to fold space along a vector of three dimensions:

*Elevation
*Rotation
*Distance

A possible algorithm for jump calculations would therefore necessitate first and foremost the figuring out of the exact location of the ship, relative to its intended point of arival after the jump. This is done by identifying, fixing and triangulating several stars. {{ref|tigh}}

Next, the ship´s position relative to the intended point of arrival would be [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_plotting| plotted]] on a three-dimensional [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_coordinate_system| carthesian coordinate system]], using the ship as its [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_%28mathematics%29| point of origin]], i.e. (0/0/0).

Then, the positions of any known stellar bodies and other obstacles would have to be plotted on that coordinate system.

Finally, the point of arrival would likewise be plotted. The hard part in making a single jump over long distances, like to Ragnar in the Miniseries, would therefore lie not so much in getting the jump drive to fold space correctly, as in correctly figuring out where possible obstacles, such as a sun or a black hole, are located and then adjusting the direction of the jump accordingly, so as to land the ship in a clear volume of space.

==What happened in „Scattered“?==
In [[Scattered|Scattered]], [[Galactica|‘‘Galactica‘‘]] and the [[Fleet|Fleet]] executed jumps according to different sets of coordinates. As a consequence, Galactica had to jump back along its original jump vector, to the former point of origin of the two jumps, reacquire the former starfixes and calculate a best-fit solution given the Fleet´s current position.
At first glance, this seems counter-intuitive. Since presumably both sets of jump coordinates were known to ‘‘Galactica‘‘, a simple triangulation of the two jump vectors would have produced a third set of jump-coordinates which should have allowed ‘‘Galactica‘‘ to jump to the Fleet directly.
A possible explanation for the complications that arise in such a case may lie in the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Relativity| „Curvature of space“]] and the fact that ships retain their initial velocity through a jump{{ref|velocity}}.
Space is not flat, but distorted by stellar masses, especially [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun |Suns]] and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes| Black Holes]]. Assuming that FTL Jumps cover enormous distances, the above the two different jumps would place lots of unknown stellar bodies between ‘‘Galactica‘‘ and the Fleet, distorting space and thereby screwing up the dimension of „Distance“ in the above mentioned third set of jump-coordinates.

So in order to find the Fleet, ‘‘Galactica‘‘ had to jump back to the point of origin of their last jump, reacquire the Fleet´s set of [[Emergency_Jump_Coordinates| Emergency Jump Coordinates]], i.e. figure out where the Point of Origin of these coordinates was ‘‘and‘‘ how to orient the coordinate system used to define these coordinates. This would ensure that ‘‘Galactica‘‘ took approximately the same route as the Fleet did, thereby passing the same stellar bodies along the way and ending up in the vicinity of the Fleet.

==Notes==
# In the [[Miniseries]], Colonel Tigh gives the impression that an FTL jump hasn't taken place in some 20 years and would be inadvisable. Given the preponderance of ships with FTL drives (some 63 comprising the suriving Colonial fleet alone ([[33]]). Tigh was probably referring to the last time ''[[Galactica]]'' herself made an FTL jump.

#{{note|tigh}} This much is explained by Col. Tigh to his wife Ellen in „Scattered“.
#{{note|velocity}} This can be seen in the Miniseries immedeately after Galactica jumps to Ragnar.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Terminology]]

FTL

2006-06-01T08:09:29Z

Rafale: placed notes into the ==notes== section

==Introduction==

Acronym for Faster-than-Light. This is a term used to describe a means of astral propulsion utilized by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonials]]. The standard term for FTL travel is '''"jump."'''

The FTL drive makes interstellar travel possible for both the Colonials and [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. No longer confined to their own home solar system, the Cylons managed to avoid Colonial interference for 40 years after the [[Cylon War]] and establish their own homeworld. However, not all ships -- from small to large -- are outfitted with these drives ([[Miniseries]]). It's likely that FTL drives are not commonplace on many civilian ships because of the costs involved in using and maintaining the drive and the amount of [[tyllium|fuel]] available. For some civilian ships that travel comparatively short distances between some destinations, such as the ill-fated [[Botanical Cruiser]], FTL may simply be impractical or unnecessary.

The technology behind FTL systems is such that, providing the relevant data is known, ships can jump with a high degree of accuracy, allowing ships to rendezvous in space and even "park" in a synchronous orbit directly above a given point on a planet's surface ([[Miniseries]]). Proper FTL use even enables vessels to arrive in crowded areas, such as the middle of an asteroid field or other ships, without the risk of collision and damage ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

No specific information on the technology of an FTL drive has been given in the Miniseries or regular series. We know only that ''Galactica'' has two FTL drives, and that other smaller or civilian ships have a single drive. We also know from dialogue that the FTL drives on ''Galactica'' are "spun up", suggesting a use of electromagnetic or centrifugal energies that may serve in creating the fields or forces needed to activate the engines.

== Colonial Limitations ==

* Colonial FTL systems are not small-scale, and cannot be installed into vehicles such as the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]. They can, however, be used on vehicles the size of a [[Raptor]], which is limited to brief, short-distance jumps. Raptors can make a sequence of short FTL "hops" in a row, to reach the same destination as a capital ship with a full-sized FTL drive ([[Miniseries]]).
* Colonial FTL systems cannot be used multiple times over a long period of time, for they are prone to breakdown after excessive, repetitive use ([[33]]).
* FTL jumps can apparently induce nausea or discomfort in some people, such as [[Cally]] ([[Miniseries]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
* The wormholes generated by Colonial drive systems are limited in size; this defines the maximum size to which a colonial vessel can be built (hence the need for [[Battlestar|battlestars]] to retract their landing pods and reduce their overall cross-section prior to a jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], etc.).
* Colonial FTL systems appear to be a holdover from the [[History of the Twelve Colonies#Exodus|Exodus]] from [[Kobol]], and their current designs have been developed to meet the needs of jumping between the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], as their outposts in other [[Troy|star systems]]. Colonial FTL capabilities have defined limits, referred to as the [[Red Line]], beyond which jumps may not be possible / could result in damage to a vessel's drive system / lead to navigational inaccuracies that might put the ship at risk.
* Navigators must be careful to plan FTL jump paths so as not to get too close to planets or other large objects, as they can be dangerous ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Knowing the limitations of their own FTL drives, a team apparently led by Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] successfully refitted a [[Raptor]] with the FTL drive from a captured [[Heavy Raider]] (presumably the one used by [[Kara Thrace]] to return from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]"). They later use this drive's data (with the aid of the cooperative copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]) to coordinate a squadron of Raptors to fly back to Caprica for a rescue mission to retrieve a [[resistance (movement)|team of resistance fighters there]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Despite the accuracy of the advanced Cylon FTL drive and Valerii's aid in marking the Jumps, two Raptors do not complete the mission. One obtains corrupted Jump data and finds itself within a nebula and a undiscovered [[New Caprica|habitable planet]], and is forced to return to the Fleet. The second Raptor also gets corrupted coordinates and materializes inside a nearby mountain on the final Jump intra-atmosphere into Caprica, with a loss of ship and crew.

== Cylon Advantage ==

* Cylon FTL systems can be manufactured on a smaller scale to their Colonial equivalent, thus allowing the [[Cylon Raider]] to be outfitted with an FTL drive. ([[Miniseries]]).
* Cylon FTL drive systems are far more efficient than their Colonial equivalent. Tests with the Raider captured by the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]) demonstrated that the drive could enable the Raider to jump directly from the vicinity of [[Kobol]] back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]) - a jump completed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] during her search for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).
* The extreme ranges over which Cylon vessels can jump would indicate that Cylon navigation systems are far better integrated with their FTL system to enable such long-distance jumps to be accurately plotted.
* Given that the Cylons left Colonial space to find their own planet, it is possible that their longer-range FTL capability was created in response to a desire to be able to cover the distance between their adoptive homeworld and those of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] with a single jump.

==Background to FTL in New BSG==
In establishing the series the creators of the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] determined to keep everything within the show very "[[Naturalistic science fiction|natural]]". This means steering away from the standard clichés of television science-fiction: no bumpy-head aliens, no remarkable technology such as matter/anti-matter conversion, etc. So how is the concept of faster-than-light travel possible within this precept?

===Underpinning Theories===

[[Image:Wormhole-demo.png|thumb|FTL: "Folding Space" (credit: Wikipedia)]]
The FTL drive technology used within the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] appears to be based on the use of [[Wikipedia:Superstring Theory|Superstring Theory]] and [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] that essentially enable the "jump drive" systems to "fold" space, reducing the distance between any two points by creating a "corridor" through space that links them together (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge). Such "corridors" are allowed by the general theory of relativity; what [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] does is provide a way to change the topology of spacetime dynamically.

The use of such Wormholes is based on the tenet that space is curved. Hence the term "[[Wikipedia:Wormhole|wormhole]]", which arises from the analogy that space can be seen as an apple. A worm can travel from one side of the apple to the other in two ways:
* By crawling over the surface, or
* By burrowing through the apple (creating a "wormhole").
Obviously, the second option is considerably shorter than the first.

===Relativistic Acceleration===
A key point concerning the use of wormholes within the new Battlestar Galactica, is that they do not break the fundamental limiting factor of our universe: the speed of light. Vessels in the new Battlestar Galactica series do not accelerate to faster-than-light velocities. Rather, they use the wormhole to reduce the distance to their destination, thus giving the ''impression'' of faster-than-light travel.

This is the reason why FTL jumps are virtually instantaneous within episodes (e.g.[[33]]). It also means that the only ''direct'' form of propulsion available for vessels is generated by their [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight drive systems]]. In turn, this is why vessels exiting from a jump are seen to be travelling at the same velocity as when they committed to the jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]], etc.)

===Feasibility===
While the use of wormholes in this manner is not currently possible, work is progressing on superstring and M-Theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future. The limiting factor is the ability to generate negative energy densities, which are allowed (though severely restricted) by quantum mechanics. As such, the use of such systems again meets one of the stated desires of the the producers of the new Battlestar Galactica: not to rely on the "traditional" trappings of science-fiction that require exotic science and technology. Theoretical physicist [[Wikipedia:Kip Thorne|Kip Thorne]] has carried out extensive research into wormholes, and helped develop a scientifically-consistent means of wormhole travel used by [[Wikipedia:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] in his novel [[Wikipedia:Contact (novel)|"Contact"]] which bears a remarkable similarity to the technology employed within Battlestar Galactica.

==Jump Calculations==
Based on deduction from information gleaned in [[Scattered|Scattered]], a set of Jump Coordinates used to execute an FTL-Jump "tells" the Jump Drive to fold space along a vector of three dimensions:

*Elevation
*Rotation
*Distance

A possible algorithm for jump calculations would therefore necessitate first and foremost the figuring out of the exact location of the ship, relative to its intended point of arival after the jump. This is done by identifying, fixing and triangulating several stars. {{ref|tigh}}

Next, the ship´s position relative to the intended point of arrival would be [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_plotting| plotted]] on a three-dimensional [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_coordinate_system| carthesian coordinate system]], using the ship as its [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_%28mathematics%29| point of origin]], i.e. (0/0/0).

Then, the positions of any known stellar bodies and other obstacles would have to be plotted on that coordinate system.

Finally, the point of arrival would likewise be plotted. The hard part in making a single jump over long distances, like to Ragnar in the Miniseries, would therefore lie not so much in getting the jump drive to fold space correctly, as in correctly figuring out where possible obstacles, such as a sun or a black hole, are located and then adjusting the direction of the jump accordingly, so as to land the ship in a clear volume of space.

==What happened in „Scattered“?==
In [[Scattered|Scattered]], [[Galactica|‘‘Galactica‘‘]] and the [[Fleet|Fleet]] executed jumps according to different sets of coordinates. As a consequence, Galactica had to jump back along its original jump vector, to the former point of origin of the two jumps, reacquire the former starfixes and calculate a best-fit solution given the Fleet´s current position.
At first glance, this seems counter-intuitive. Since presumably both sets of jump coordinates were known to ‘‘Galactica‘‘, a simple triangulation of the two jump vectors would have produced a third set of jump-coordinates which should have allowed ‘‘Galactica‘‘ to jump to the Fleet directly.
A possible explanation for the complications that arise in such a case may lie in the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Relativity| „Curvature of space“]] and the fact that ships retain their initial velocity through a jump{{ref|velocity}}.
Space is not flat, but distorted by stellar masses, especially [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun |Suns]] and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes| Black Holes]]. Assuming that FTL Jumps cover enormous distances, the above the two different jumps would place lots of unknown stellar bodies between ‘‘Galactica‘‘ and the Fleet, distorting space and thereby screwing up the dimension of „Distance“ in the above mentioned third set of jump-coordinates.

So in order to find the Fleet, ‘‘Galactica‘‘ had to jump back to the point of origin of their last jump, reacquire the Fleet´s set of [[Emergency_Jump_Coordinates| Emergency Jump Coordinates]], i.e. figure out where the Point of Origin of these coordinates was ‘‘and‘‘ how to orient the coordinate system used to define these coordinates. This would ensure that ‘‘Galactica‘‘ took approximately the same route as the Fleet did, thereby passing the same stellar bodies along the way and ending up in the vicinity of the Fleet.

==Notes==
# In the [[Miniseries]], Colonel Tigh gives the impression that an FTL jump hasn't taken place in some 20 years and would be inadvisable. Given the preponderance of ships with FTL drives (some 63 comprising the suriving Colonial fleet alone ([[33]]). Tigh was probably referring to the last time ''[[Galactica]]'' herself made an FTL jump.

#{{note|tigh}} This much is explained by Col. Tigh to his wife Ellen in „Scattered“.
#{{note|velocity}} This can be seen in the Miniseries immedeately after Galactica jumps to Ragnar.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Terminology]]

FTL

2006-06-01T08:08:08Z

Rafale: /* What happened in „Scattered“? */ link update

==Introduction==

Acronym for Faster-than-Light. This is a term used to describe a means of astral propulsion utilized by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonials]]. The standard term for FTL travel is '''"jump."'''

The FTL drive makes interstellar travel possible for both the Colonials and [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. No longer confined to their own home solar system, the Cylons managed to avoid Colonial interference for 40 years after the [[Cylon War]] and establish their own homeworld. However, not all ships -- from small to large -- are outfitted with these drives ([[Miniseries]]). It's likely that FTL drives are not commonplace on many civilian ships because of the costs involved in using and maintaining the drive and the amount of [[tyllium|fuel]] available. For some civilian ships that travel comparatively short distances between some destinations, such as the ill-fated [[Botanical Cruiser]], FTL may simply be impractical or unnecessary.

The technology behind FTL systems is such that, providing the relevant data is known, ships can jump with a high degree of accuracy, allowing ships to rendezvous in space and even "park" in a synchronous orbit directly above a given point on a planet's surface ([[Miniseries]]). Proper FTL use even enables vessels to arrive in crowded areas, such as the middle of an asteroid field or other ships, without the risk of collision and damage ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

No specific information on the technology of an FTL drive has been given in the Miniseries or regular series. We know only that ''Galactica'' has two FTL drives, and that other smaller or civilian ships have a single drive. We also know from dialogue that the FTL drives on ''Galactica'' are "spun up", suggesting a use of electromagnetic or centrifugal energies that may serve in creating the fields or forces needed to activate the engines.

== Colonial Limitations ==

* Colonial FTL systems are not small-scale, and cannot be installed into vehicles such as the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]. They can, however, be used on vehicles the size of a [[Raptor]], which is limited to brief, short-distance jumps. Raptors can make a sequence of short FTL "hops" in a row, to reach the same destination as a capital ship with a full-sized FTL drive ([[Miniseries]]).
* Colonial FTL systems cannot be used multiple times over a long period of time, for they are prone to breakdown after excessive, repetitive use ([[33]]).
* FTL jumps can apparently induce nausea or discomfort in some people, such as [[Cally]] ([[Miniseries]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
* The wormholes generated by Colonial drive systems are limited in size; this defines the maximum size to which a colonial vessel can be built (hence the need for [[Battlestar|battlestars]] to retract their landing pods and reduce their overall cross-section prior to a jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], etc.).
* Colonial FTL systems appear to be a holdover from the [[History of the Twelve Colonies#Exodus|Exodus]] from [[Kobol]], and their current designs have been developed to meet the needs of jumping between the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], as their outposts in other [[Troy|star systems]]. Colonial FTL capabilities have defined limits, referred to as the [[Red Line]], beyond which jumps may not be possible / could result in damage to a vessel's drive system / lead to navigational inaccuracies that might put the ship at risk.
* Navigators must be careful to plan FTL jump paths so as not to get too close to planets or other large objects, as they can be dangerous ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Knowing the limitations of their own FTL drives, a team apparently led by Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] successfully refitted a [[Raptor]] with the FTL drive from a captured [[Heavy Raider]] (presumably the one used by [[Kara Thrace]] to return from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]"). They later use this drive's data (with the aid of the cooperative copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]) to coordinate a squadron of Raptors to fly back to Caprica for a rescue mission to retrieve a [[resistance (movement)|team of resistance fighters there]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Despite the accuracy of the advanced Cylon FTL drive and Valerii's aid in marking the Jumps, two Raptors do not complete the mission. One obtains corrupted Jump data and finds itself within a nebula and a undiscovered [[New Caprica|habitable planet]], and is forced to return to the Fleet. The second Raptor also gets corrupted coordinates and materializes inside a nearby mountain on the final Jump intra-atmosphere into Caprica, with a loss of ship and crew.

== Cylon Advantage ==

* Cylon FTL systems can be manufactured on a smaller scale to their Colonial equivalent, thus allowing the [[Cylon Raider]] to be outfitted with an FTL drive. ([[Miniseries]]).
* Cylon FTL drive systems are far more efficient than their Colonial equivalent. Tests with the Raider captured by the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]) demonstrated that the drive could enable the Raider to jump directly from the vicinity of [[Kobol]] back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]) - a jump completed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] during her search for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).
* The extreme ranges over which Cylon vessels can jump would indicate that Cylon navigation systems are far better integrated with their FTL system to enable such long-distance jumps to be accurately plotted.
* Given that the Cylons left Colonial space to find their own planet, it is possible that their longer-range FTL capability was created in response to a desire to be able to cover the distance between their adoptive homeworld and those of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] with a single jump.

==Background to FTL in New BSG==
In establishing the series the creators of the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] determined to keep everything within the show very "[[Naturalistic science fiction|natural]]". This means steering away from the standard clichés of television science-fiction: no bumpy-head aliens, no remarkable technology such as matter/anti-matter conversion, etc. So how is the concept of faster-than-light travel possible within this precept?

===Underpinning Theories===

[[Image:Wormhole-demo.png|thumb|FTL: "Folding Space" (credit: Wikipedia)]]
The FTL drive technology used within the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] appears to be based on the use of [[Wikipedia:Superstring Theory|Superstring Theory]] and [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] that essentially enable the "jump drive" systems to "fold" space, reducing the distance between any two points by creating a "corridor" through space that links them together (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge). Such "corridors" are allowed by the general theory of relativity; what [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] does is provide a way to change the topology of spacetime dynamically.

The use of such Wormholes is based on the tenet that space is curved. Hence the term "[[Wikipedia:Wormhole|wormhole]]", which arises from the analogy that space can be seen as an apple. A worm can travel from one side of the apple to the other in two ways:
* By crawling over the surface, or
* By burrowing through the apple (creating a "wormhole").
Obviously, the second option is considerably shorter than the first.

===Relativistic Acceleration===
A key point concerning the use of wormholes within the new Battlestar Galactica, is that they do not break the fundamental limiting factor of our universe: the speed of light. Vessels in the new Battlestar Galactica series do not accelerate to faster-than-light velocities. Rather, they use the wormhole to reduce the distance to their destination, thus giving the ''impression'' of faster-than-light travel.

This is the reason why FTL jumps are virtually instantaneous within episodes (e.g.[[33]]). It also means that the only ''direct'' form of propulsion available for vessels is generated by their [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight drive systems]]. In turn, this is why vessels exiting from a jump are seen to be travelling at the same velocity as when they committed to the jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]], etc.)

===Feasibility===
While the use of wormholes in this manner is not currently possible, work is progressing on superstring and M-Theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future. The limiting factor is the ability to generate negative energy densities, which are allowed (though severely restricted) by quantum mechanics. As such, the use of such systems again meets one of the stated desires of the the producers of the new Battlestar Galactica: not to rely on the "traditional" trappings of science-fiction that require exotic science and technology. Theoretical physicist [[Wikipedia:Kip Thorne|Kip Thorne]] has carried out extensive research into wormholes, and helped develop a scientifically-consistent means of wormhole travel used by [[Wikipedia:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] in his novel [[Wikipedia:Contact (novel)|"Contact"]] which bears a remarkable similarity to the technology employed within Battlestar Galactica.

==Jump Calculations==
Based on deduction from information gleaned in [[Scattered|Scattered]], a set of Jump Coordinates used to execute an FTL-Jump "tells" the Jump Drive to fold space along a vector of three dimensions:

*Elevation
*Rotation
*Distance

A possible algorithm for jump calculations would therefore necessitate first and foremost the figuring out of the exact location of the ship, relative to its intended point of arival after the jump. This is done by identifying, fixing and triangulating several stars. {{ref|tigh}}

Next, the ship´s position relative to the intended point of arrival would be [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_plotting| plotted]] on a three-dimensional [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_coordinate_system| carthesian coordinate system]], using the ship as its [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_%28mathematics%29| point of origin]], i.e. (0/0/0).

Then, the positions of any known stellar bodies and other obstacles would have to be plotted on that coordinate system.

Finally, the point of arrival would likewise be plotted. The hard part in making a single jump over long distances, like to Ragnar in the Miniseries, would therefore lie not so much in getting the jump drive to fold space correctly, as in correctly figuring out where possible obstacles, such as a sun or a black hole, are located and then adjusting the direction of the jump accordingly, so as to land the ship in a clear volume of space.

==What happened in „Scattered“?==
In [[Scattered|Scattered]], [[Galactica|‘‘Galactica‘‘]] and the [[Fleet|Fleet]] executed jumps according to different sets of coordinates. As a consequence, Galactica had to jump back along its original jump vector, to the former point of origin of the two jumps, reacquire the former starfixes and calculate a best-fit solution given the Fleet´s current position.
At first glance, this seems counter-intuitive. Since presumably both sets of jump coordinates were known to ‘‘Galactica‘‘, a simple triangulation of the two jump vectors would have produced a third set of jump-coordinates which should have allowed ‘‘Galactica‘‘ to jump to the Fleet directly.
A possible explanation for the complications that arise in such a case may lie in the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Relativity| „Curvature of space“]] and the fact that ships retain their initial velocity through a jump{{ref|velocity}}.
Space is not flat, but distorted by stellar masses, especially [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun |Suns]] and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes| Black Holes]]. Assuming that FTL Jumps cover enormous distances, the above the two different jumps would place lots of unknown stellar bodies between ‘‘Galactica‘‘ and the Fleet, distorting space and thereby screwing up the dimension of „Distance“ in the above mentioned third set of jump-coordinates.

So in order to find the Fleet, ‘‘Galactica‘‘ had to jump back to the point of origin of their last jump, reacquire the Fleet´s set of [[Emergency_Jump_Coordinates| Emergency Jump Coordinates]], i.e. figure out where the Point of Origin of these coordinates was ‘‘and‘‘ how to orient the coordinate system used to define these coordinates. This would ensure that ‘‘Galactica‘‘ took approximately the same route as the Fleet did, thereby passing the same stellar bodies along the way and ending up in the vicinity of the Fleet.

#{{note|tigh}} This much is explained by Col. Tigh to his wife Ellen in „Scattered“.
#{{note|velocity}} This can be seen in the Miniseries immedeately after Galactica jumps to Ragnar.

==Notes==
# In the [[Miniseries]], Colonel Tigh gives the impression that an FTL jump hasn't taken place in some 20 years and would be inadvisable. Given the preponderance of ships with FTL drives (some 63 comprising the suriving Colonial fleet alone ([[33]]). Tigh was probably referring to the last time ''[[Galactica]]'' herself made an FTL jump.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Terminology]]

FTL

2006-06-01T08:06:22Z

Rafale: New Sections: "Jump Calculations" & "What happened in "Scattered"?

==Introduction==

Acronym for Faster-than-Light. This is a term used to describe a means of astral propulsion utilized by the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonials]]. The standard term for FTL travel is '''"jump."'''

The FTL drive makes interstellar travel possible for both the Colonials and [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]. No longer confined to their own home solar system, the Cylons managed to avoid Colonial interference for 40 years after the [[Cylon War]] and establish their own homeworld. However, not all ships -- from small to large -- are outfitted with these drives ([[Miniseries]]). It's likely that FTL drives are not commonplace on many civilian ships because of the costs involved in using and maintaining the drive and the amount of [[tyllium|fuel]] available. For some civilian ships that travel comparatively short distances between some destinations, such as the ill-fated [[Botanical Cruiser]], FTL may simply be impractical or unnecessary.

The technology behind FTL systems is such that, providing the relevant data is known, ships can jump with a high degree of accuracy, allowing ships to rendezvous in space and even "park" in a synchronous orbit directly above a given point on a planet's surface ([[Miniseries]]). Proper FTL use even enables vessels to arrive in crowded areas, such as the middle of an asteroid field or other ships, without the risk of collision and damage ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

No specific information on the technology of an FTL drive has been given in the Miniseries or regular series. We know only that ''Galactica'' has two FTL drives, and that other smaller or civilian ships have a single drive. We also know from dialogue that the FTL drives on ''Galactica'' are "spun up", suggesting a use of electromagnetic or centrifugal energies that may serve in creating the fields or forces needed to activate the engines.

== Colonial Limitations ==

* Colonial FTL systems are not small-scale, and cannot be installed into vehicles such as the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]. They can, however, be used on vehicles the size of a [[Raptor]], which is limited to brief, short-distance jumps. Raptors can make a sequence of short FTL "hops" in a row, to reach the same destination as a capital ship with a full-sized FTL drive ([[Miniseries]]).
* Colonial FTL systems cannot be used multiple times over a long period of time, for they are prone to breakdown after excessive, repetitive use ([[33]]).
* FTL jumps can apparently induce nausea or discomfort in some people, such as [[Cally]] ([[Miniseries]], [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
* The wormholes generated by Colonial drive systems are limited in size; this defines the maximum size to which a colonial vessel can be built (hence the need for [[Battlestar|battlestars]] to retract their landing pods and reduce their overall cross-section prior to a jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], etc.).
* Colonial FTL systems appear to be a holdover from the [[History of the Twelve Colonies#Exodus|Exodus]] from [[Kobol]], and their current designs have been developed to meet the needs of jumping between the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], as their outposts in other [[Troy|star systems]]. Colonial FTL capabilities have defined limits, referred to as the [[Red Line]], beyond which jumps may not be possible / could result in damage to a vessel's drive system / lead to navigational inaccuracies that might put the ship at risk.
* Navigators must be careful to plan FTL jump paths so as not to get too close to planets or other large objects, as they can be dangerous ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

Knowing the limitations of their own FTL drives, a team apparently led by Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]] successfully refitted a [[Raptor]] with the FTL drive from a captured [[Heavy Raider]] (presumably the one used by [[Kara Thrace]] to return from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]"). They later use this drive's data (with the aid of the cooperative copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]) to coordinate a squadron of Raptors to fly back to Caprica for a rescue mission to retrieve a [[resistance (movement)|team of resistance fighters there]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Despite the accuracy of the advanced Cylon FTL drive and Valerii's aid in marking the Jumps, two Raptors do not complete the mission. One obtains corrupted Jump data and finds itself within a nebula and a undiscovered [[New Caprica|habitable planet]], and is forced to return to the Fleet. The second Raptor also gets corrupted coordinates and materializes inside a nearby mountain on the final Jump intra-atmosphere into Caprica, with a loss of ship and crew.

== Cylon Advantage ==

* Cylon FTL systems can be manufactured on a smaller scale to their Colonial equivalent, thus allowing the [[Cylon Raider]] to be outfitted with an FTL drive. ([[Miniseries]]).
* Cylon FTL drive systems are far more efficient than their Colonial equivalent. Tests with the Raider captured by the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]) demonstrated that the drive could enable the Raider to jump directly from the vicinity of [[Kobol]] back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]) - a jump completed by Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] during her search for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).
* The extreme ranges over which Cylon vessels can jump would indicate that Cylon navigation systems are far better integrated with their FTL system to enable such long-distance jumps to be accurately plotted.
* Given that the Cylons left Colonial space to find their own planet, it is possible that their longer-range FTL capability was created in response to a desire to be able to cover the distance between their adoptive homeworld and those of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] with a single jump.

==Background to FTL in New BSG==
In establishing the series the creators of the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] determined to keep everything within the show very "[[Naturalistic science fiction|natural]]". This means steering away from the standard clichés of television science-fiction: no bumpy-head aliens, no remarkable technology such as matter/anti-matter conversion, etc. So how is the concept of faster-than-light travel possible within this precept?

===Underpinning Theories===

[[Image:Wormhole-demo.png|thumb|FTL: "Folding Space" (credit: Wikipedia)]]
The FTL drive technology used within the [[Re-imagined|new Battlestar Galactica]] appears to be based on the use of [[Wikipedia:Superstring Theory|Superstring Theory]] and [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] that essentially enable the "jump drive" systems to "fold" space, reducing the distance between any two points by creating a "corridor" through space that links them together (essentially forming a wormhole, or Einstein-Rosen Bridge). Such "corridors" are allowed by the general theory of relativity; what [[Wikipedia:M-Theory|M-Theory]] does is provide a way to change the topology of spacetime dynamically.

The use of such Wormholes is based on the tenet that space is curved. Hence the term "[[Wikipedia:Wormhole|wormhole]]", which arises from the analogy that space can be seen as an apple. A worm can travel from one side of the apple to the other in two ways:
* By crawling over the surface, or
* By burrowing through the apple (creating a "wormhole").
Obviously, the second option is considerably shorter than the first.

===Relativistic Acceleration===
A key point concerning the use of wormholes within the new Battlestar Galactica, is that they do not break the fundamental limiting factor of our universe: the speed of light. Vessels in the new Battlestar Galactica series do not accelerate to faster-than-light velocities. Rather, they use the wormhole to reduce the distance to their destination, thus giving the ''impression'' of faster-than-light travel.

This is the reason why FTL jumps are virtually instantaneous within episodes (e.g.[[33]]). It also means that the only ''direct'' form of propulsion available for vessels is generated by their [[Sublight Propulsion|sublight drive systems]]. In turn, this is why vessels exiting from a jump are seen to be travelling at the same velocity as when they committed to the jump ([[Miniseries]], [[33]], [[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]], etc.)

===Feasibility===
While the use of wormholes in this manner is not currently possible, work is progressing on superstring and M-Theory which may make the creation of wormholes possible in the future. The limiting factor is the ability to generate negative energy densities, which are allowed (though severely restricted) by quantum mechanics. As such, the use of such systems again meets one of the stated desires of the the producers of the new Battlestar Galactica: not to rely on the "traditional" trappings of science-fiction that require exotic science and technology. Theoretical physicist [[Wikipedia:Kip Thorne|Kip Thorne]] has carried out extensive research into wormholes, and helped develop a scientifically-consistent means of wormhole travel used by [[Wikipedia:Carl Sagan|Carl Sagan]] in his novel [[Wikipedia:Contact (novel)|"Contact"]] which bears a remarkable similarity to the technology employed within Battlestar Galactica.

==Jump Calculations==
Based on deduction from information gleaned in [[Scattered|Scattered]], a set of Jump Coordinates used to execute an FTL-Jump "tells" the Jump Drive to fold space along a vector of three dimensions:

*Elevation
*Rotation
*Distance

A possible algorithm for jump calculations would therefore necessitate first and foremost the figuring out of the exact location of the ship, relative to its intended point of arival after the jump. This is done by identifying, fixing and triangulating several stars. {{ref|tigh}}

Next, the ship´s position relative to the intended point of arrival would be [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_plotting| plotted]] on a three-dimensional [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartesian_coordinate_system| carthesian coordinate system]], using the ship as its [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_%28mathematics%29| point of origin]], i.e. (0/0/0).

Then, the positions of any known stellar bodies and other obstacles would have to be plotted on that coordinate system.

Finally, the point of arrival would likewise be plotted. The hard part in making a single jump over long distances, like to Ragnar in the Miniseries, would therefore lie not so much in getting the jump drive to fold space correctly, as in correctly figuring out where possible obstacles, such as a sun or a black hole, are located and then adjusting the direction of the jump accordingly, so as to land the ship in a clear volume of space.

==What happened in „Scattered“?==
In [[Scattered|Scattered]], [[Galactica|‘‘Galactica‘‘]] and the [[Fleet|Fleet]] executed jumps according to different sets of coordinates. As a consequence, Galactica had to jump back along its original jump vector, to the former point of origin of the two jumps, reacquire the former starfixes and calculate a best-fit solution given the Fleet´s current position.
At first glance, this seems counter-intuitive. Since presumably both sets of jump coordinates were known to ‘‘Galactica‘‘, a simple triangulation of the two jump vectors would have produced a third set of jump-coordinates which should have allowed ‘‘Galactica‘‘ to jump to the Fleet directly.
A possible explanation for the complications that arise in such a case may lie in the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Relativity| „Curvature of space“]] and the fact that ships retain their initial velocity through a jump{{ref|velocity}}.
Space is not flat, but distorted by stellar masses, especially [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun |Suns]] and [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_holes| Black Holes]]. Assuming that FTL Jumps cover enormous distances, the above the two different jumps would place lots of unknown stellar bodies between ‘‘Galactica‘‘ and the Fleet, distorting space and thereby screwing up the dimension of „Distance“ in the above mentioned third set of jump-coordinates.

So in order to find the Fleet, ‘‘Galactica‘‘ had to jump back to the point of origin of their last jump, reacquire the Fleet´s set of Emergency Jump Coordinates, i.e. figure out where the Point of Origin of these coordinates was ‘‘and‘‘ how to orient the coordinate system used to define these coordinates. This would ensure that ‘‘Galactica‘‘ took approximately the same route as the Fleet did, thereby passing the same stellar bodies along the way and ending up in the vicinity of the Fleet.

#{{note|tigh}} This much is explained by Col. Tigh to his wife Ellen in „Scattered“.
#{{note|velocity}} This can be seen in the Miniseries immedeately after Galactica jumps to Ragnar.

==Notes==
# In the [[Miniseries]], Colonel Tigh gives the impression that an FTL jump hasn't taken place in some 20 years and would be inadvisable. Given the preponderance of ships with FTL drives (some 63 comprising the suriving Colonial fleet alone ([[33]]). Tigh was probably referring to the last time ''[[Galactica]]'' herself made an FTL jump.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Terminology]]

User talk:Spencerian

2006-06-01T06:31:26Z

Rafale: hey, thanks!

''For discussions prior to January 1, 2006, [http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASpencerian&diff=21890&oldid=21664 click here.]''

== Plan ==

Hey Spencerian, you´re right that the show only adressed EJC only once, however, speculatively speaking, they were probably a central part of Colonial Fleet doctrine, during the first 5 days after the attack. What if I write a little article on that?
--[[User:Rafale|Rafale]] 20:57, 9 February 2006 (EST)

== Citation Jihad ==

I hope my update settles the origin of the word "Godfrey". --[[User:Dreamer|dreamer]] 10:00, 9 February 2006 (EST)
:Your update appears more accurate than any thus far, and with source. Nice work. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:52, 9 February 2006 (EST)

:: Thank you, I also provided a source for Moore's comment about battlestar groups, buried a few paragraphs down inside the January 20 2005, 11:59 PM blog post (I always thought that.. to ...and smaller carriers as well.) --[[User:Dreamer|dreamer]] 18:48, 9 February 2006 (EST)

== Thanks ==

For your comment and the welcome! Admittedly the entry walks a thin line in terms of RDM relativity and redundancy, however I believe it's one BSG fans are interested in, it provides a more general background for all things BSG and through it perhaps a better understanding of the series. Of course I may be part of a small minority saying this, but I'd at least like to see how the discussion goes on the trivia page before you obliterate my long, hard work from existence :) --[[User:Dreamer|Dreamer]] 00:30, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:Sure, Dreamer. It does look like we need to send this article away; but (as you noted elsewhere) as an online encyclopedia, the ease of finding information is as important as recording it. Take a look at the actor bios and see if there is a format or convention that would give consistancy to ensure that others who look for trivia can find it. But do note that "trivia" is just that; information that is least relevant, and so is less important in our pecking order here than the content of episodic or character articles. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:54, 8 February 2006 (EST)

*I am confused: it wasn't really "hard work"; only 5 times appeared on your Trivia page. Further, the two notes that Grace Park and Tricia Helfer are models-turned-actresses were already in their biographies, and the notation the Glen Larson was working on Knight Rider was also in his article. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 00:53, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:I was joking on the hard work part, hence the smiley. I consider it only a personal stub, as to continue upon it and add further data in the near future. --[[User:Dreamer|dreamer]] 00:58, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::Gotcha. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 01:20, 8 February 2006 (EST)

==The CNP==

In the mini-series, Doral comes to Baltar on Ragnar with a list of civilian ships that have the CNP, which indicates that there are non-military ships with the program.

Furthermore, there are a '''lot''' of Vipers leaving the Galactica at Ragnar to engage the Cylons. I was under the impression there were only twenty Mark II Vipers aboard the Galactica, and that its original Mark VII squadron was destroyed on the way back to Caprica. Therefore, at least some of those Vipers might have been the survivors of other ships that made their way to Ragnar after Adama gave the order to rendezvous there for a counterattack.

Furthermore, later in the series, the Galactica seems to have an awful lot of Raptors, and Crashdown is described as being a refugee from the Triton, which IIRC was one of the battlestars destroyed around the time of the Atlantia. Therefore, it seems that some Raptors might have made their way there was well. The Raptors also have FTL (unlike, apparently, the Vipers) and judging by how the Raiders never tried to virus Boomer and Helo, Raptors might be less suspectible to Cylon interference, so any Raptors that escaped the destruction of their battlestars would have an easier time getting away from the Cylons then Vipers would.

Also, Dualla describes reports of system failures throughout the Fleet, and then describes how a battlestar lost power. How effective was the CNP with the capital ships? We've seen it used quite effectively on Vipers, but Dualla's description of its effects on battlestars is vague (power loss in at least one case and undescribed "system failures").

Congrats on being made Admin.

--[[User:mq59|mq59]] 12:16, 3 January 2006 (EST)

:Hi, Mq59. I remember the scene with Doral (in CIC, Baltar was being "serviced" by virtual Six when he was interrupted) and will review it on my copy of the miniseries; you may be right on the CNP's use on civilian ships. As far as Crashdown's origination, it's not clear if he flew in on a Raptor (the largest of any refugee ship; no other indications show any other Colonial Fleet craft escaped to Ragnar) or even flew in at all; Valerii may have been kidding about a transfer he made from the ''Triton'' before the attack. We don't have enough information to pull a good speculation here, although I would defer it to escaped since we know Raptors have FTL ability and are small enough not to be noticed as well by Cylon forces. We just don't have any information from the Miniseries that additional ships made it. Raptors had CNP as well, but yes, since they are designed for electronic countermeasures, they may be less subceptible to infiltration, CNP or not. If you can find Doral's exact line to Baltar, that will be enough as a source. However, we shouldn't globally say that all civilian ships used the CNP; it's practical that commercial commerce ships, such as modern freighters, may use similar hardware from the same ship contractor that builds military ships and so have a similar specification for CNP. Most civilian ships, such as passenger liners, were just defenseless and easy to destroy, CNP or not.

:The CNP was very effective, obviously: all but two battlestars were destroyed. We saw in "Valley of Darkness" what happens when a battlestar is infected. We know that, while the battlestar may not have been fully shutdown like a fighter would, the number of systemic failures would be enough to leave a battlestar effectively defenseless and fodder for a basestar and her fighters. If a second Cylon fight occurred during "Valley", ''Galactica'' would have been screwed. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:49, 3 January 2006 (EST)

Peter Farago found the "civilians with the CNP" quote and put it in the "Talk: CNP article."

I know no capital ships made it to Ragnar. However, it seemed they had too many Vipers and Raptors (the Vipers in the mini and the Raptors during the actual series) for an about-to-be-decommissioned ship.

The CNP worked--it seems like virtually all the Colonial Fleet was destroyed in a single day (not sure what length of time the miniseries actually covers, but it's not that long). I was curious about how effective it was and how many casualties the Cylons could have theoretically suffered.

I may write a fanfic called "The Death of the Poseidon" describing the destruction of a battlestar during the opening attack--the Raiders shut down virtually all of the Vipers and destroy the defenseless Raptors, but lose many Raiders trying to close with the "Poseidon" to trigger the CNP (a Raider "eye-dance" in the mini and "Flight of the Phoenix" seems to be the preferred way of jacking with the Colonials). The Poseidon's fire controls go haywire and main power shuts down, enabling the Cylons to launch a bunch of nukes. By the time they get the backups running, the nukes are too close to shoot down and BANG!

Hmm...if I make the battlestar the "Triton" instead of the "Poseidon," perhaps I can involve Crashdown.

--[[User:mq59|mq59]] 1:24, 3 January 2006 (EST)

:Nice catch, MQ. I've readded your contribution with the source that Peter provided. Enlightening. For the Viper count, there is an article that tracks the number of Vipers, but it escapes me. [[Flight of the Phoenix]] has a notation on this. There are enough Vipers but fewer pilots nowandays. ''Galactica'' had two Mk.II squadrons at the start of the war.

:We don't host fan fiction here, of course, but I'm sure you'd have an audience for your story somewhere! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:41, 3 January 2006 (EST)

Does the Viper count include the mini-series? Four Vipers (I believe) were destroyed on-screen at the Battle of Ragnar Anchorage. However, when the Vipers are launched, it looks like there are a lot more than the 30-odd Vipers they've got by "Flight of the Phoenix."

I saw the mini last night and Adama referred to "twenty Vipers" being in their museum section (the Mark IIs). Assuming Apollo left his Mark VII there when he took out his father's Mark II for a spin during the decommissioning, the other seven or so Mark VIIs they've got by "Flight" had to come from somewhere. This doesn't take casualties at Ragnar into account.

I have to actually start writing the story first. I've got one Internet project to finish within the next week or so, and classes for me (I am in college) resume Monday.--[[User:mq59|mq59]] 14:21, 3 January 2006 (EST)

:It's complicated. I'm currently keeping track of everything in the notes section of [[Galactica (RDM)]], but the matter may deserve its own article in the near future. My own impression, anyway, was that Galactica had two squadrons of Mk. VIIs (in active service out of the port flight pod) and one squadron ofn Mk. IIs (in the museum on the starboard pod). After the twenty Mk. VIIs in Ripper's squadron were destroyed, the Mk. IIs were reactivated, bringing the total to the (roughly) 40 fighters seen at the Ragnar battle. I'm not 100% sure of this, however, as there are still other sources to consult. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:33, 3 January 2006 (EST)

==Rank= Administrator==

OK. Now I'm jealous. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 14:51, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:''(yodaspeak)'' Be careful you should be, or [[Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship|suffer my fate, you will!]] ''(/yodaspeak)'' --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:02, 4 January 2006 (EST)

:: '''''LOL!''''' --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 19:52, 4 January 2006 (EST)

==Welcome==
Thanks for the welcome - I probably won't be contributing all that much (admin duties on Wikipedia keep me busy, as well as the ''Doctor Who'' Wikiproject). Just had to correct some really nagging spelling mistakes. :) --[[User:Khaosworks|Khaosworks]] 17:31, 8 January 2006 (EST)

:I know the feeling. Joe (our admin) just empowered me and two others as sysops here, so I'm learning to budget my time--I used to be all over Wikipedia and their Matrix series pages until I found this place. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:27, 8 January 2006 (EST)

==Editing User Pages==
From what I've learned of [[Wikipedia:Wikiquette|Wikiquette]] it is considered bad form to edit a user's page. However, I've been working the [[Special:Disambiguations|Disambiguations Page]] to try to get links pointed where they are intended to go, and one of the results on that page is a user page. I guess the first step would be to ask them to change it on their talk page, but considering their last contribution was a few months ago there's a good chance that they might never respond. I guess I should just let it go, but the OCD side of me wants the Disambuations Page to someday read like the Double Redirects page (0 results returned). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:58, 17 January 2006 (EST)

:Sounds fine. Was this in reference to Day's adjustment on a link on my user page? It was understandable, so I ignored it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:32, 17 January 2006 (EST)

::Oh, no. If I were to call out Day, I'd call him out. This was about my Viper disambig crusade today. [[User:Neochiiz3000]] has a link to Viper that I was thinking about switching to Viper (RDM). I've restrained myself, and the issue may resolve itself if we end up doing a redirect to Viper (RDM) off of Viper. If not, I'll ask first... and edit if there isn't a response for a while. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:39, 17 January 2006 (EST)

:::Yeah, that sounds like the proper thing to do. As an admin, it should not be inappropriate for you to edit a user page after you ask for permission first and time elapses, or if the content of the page violates our policy. Yeah, I hope you had a script for that--how many pages did you DO!? You're going to wake up in a nightmare at 4 in the morning and scream "Viper!" --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:47, 17 January 2006 (EST)

:::: Two things. One: Yeah, Steelviper. I broke my The <s>FLeet</s> Fleet purge into several phases (still not done as of this writing), so I would remain sane. Two: I felt that a) Spence would see the reasonability of my editing his user page that particular time and that b) he'd see my name by the edit and maybe be forgiving. However, this may be similar to the way that, after I know you a while, I get the idea that your personal space and my personal space can be the same space and that puts some people off, so lemme know if I got a bit close to you, there, Spence. And I mean that in general, not just in this one case. I don't plan on making a habit of editing others' user pages, but this ''is'' my first Wiki and I'm still learning the finer points of Wikiquette and which rules are hard a fast for all and which might be bent for "friends" etc. --[[User:Day|Day]] 23:21, 17 January 2006 (EST)

::::Script? Man... that's a really good idea. I've not played with that yet, though, so all those edits you saw were manual. For some of the other big offenders (Battlestar, The Twelve Colonies) I was thinking of going more with the redirect + disambig on the top, since 95%+ of the new content is going to be about RDM... and I'm not sure if I could survive all 600+ of the disambig fixes. I didn't keep an exact count, but I cranked out around 100 viper edits. (I'd do blocks of about 10 to try to stay sharp). As for editing user pages, I'm with you Day (in that I wouldn't mind somebody who knew me to fix something that's broken, or maybe even somebody that didn't know me if it were particarly bad). However, I get the impression that some people are pretty sensitive about the issue, so I wanted to get a second opinion. I still need to drop a note to that user though... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:38, 18 January 2006 (EST)

==D'oh!==
Sorry about the goof up on the Crashdown page. I guess my enthusiasm got the better of me. Thanks for pointing me right. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 13:44, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:Not a problem. Sometimes I'm wrong (and do feel free to correct me if you see a goof), but what you noted was a common interpretation for others here, so you're not alone. It ''may'' be probable that a place known as Triton exists, but using Occam's Razor (simpliest answer is likely the correct one) is best here. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:02, 19 January 2006 (EST)

== I feel like you don't ''talk'' to me any more... ==

That's a bit of a joke. However, I'm speaking of [[Talk:Saul Tigh#Picture?|this discussion]] that I tried to start after you changed Tigh's picture the first time. There was some discussion about it on the Island of Misfit Images and the, I think, two other people who chimed in agreed that the old one was much more nice looking. Anyway, I thought I'd prod you here for a response on Saul's talk page. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:57, 23 January 2006 (EST)

== Clear=both; ==

Ahha! [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=CIC&curid=797&diff=26666&oldid=26629 This page] looks much better now. Great use of the Empty-and-CLeared-Div trick. There are probably a few other articles that could use this. Anyway, wanted to give props. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:25, 25 January 2006 (EST)
:It's YOU I need to give props to. It's a simple bit of code that works well. Thanks for the help. I've been reluctant to update some pages in need of images because of formatting, so you've given me a good tool. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:14, 25 January 2006 (EST)

== Character Template Clarification ==
You didn't want it to get conversational over at the template talk, so I thought I'd ask here. What do you mean by "unneccessarily fill the template and it is growing ridiculously large"? Are you talking about the number of articles that link to the template ([[Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Character_Data]])? Does the number of articles that utilize a template have a negative impact on that template somehow? I guess I don't understand the technical maintenance implications of it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:18, 3 February 2006 (EST)

: I meant the ''sheer dimensions of it'' (just [[Template:Characters]], not the character data template)...it's growing THICKER and THICKER and looks awful, worthless data notwithstanding. I can start to appreciate Peter's distaste for it now. I suggested the standard to aid in slowing down the amount of characters added to it, but nothing will stop the growth except to remove it altogether. A much smaller redesign could also help. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:27, 3 February 2006 (EST)

::Ah! Much clearer now! (I had just made a change inside Phelan's Character Data template, which had me in the wrong frame of mind.) I had (vaguely) noticed that the "Character" template was growing, but honestly I had come to ignore it. If it becomes a duplication of Category: Characters it ceases to be a navigational aid. I'd still like to come up with an elegant solution using Categories, but I don't think categories will be able to provide the immediate visual appeal that a (properly sized) character template is going to have.

::Do character templates always span the entire series? There might be a character that satisfies your criteria, but is not terribly relevant in a season or two. Is that just a function of character template maintenance (keep it up to date and trim), or a situation where you have character templates for different time periods/seasons? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:35, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:::As Peter might attest, maintaining these things can be a bitch and be visually unappealing. I find that a similar template for the Matrix movies on Wikipedia works, but now I understand why Peter thinks it sucks here--it will grow like a cancer and pull much needed "white space" off the article, making things that much more cluttered. The Matrix stuff is generally over. But BG has to grow, and we have 50000 characters plus 12 Cylons to account for. I think we have enough links in articles to not deal with the character template, more I think of it. That thing is for browsing, nothing more. Or, we add in the central characters and regular guest stars and leave it at that. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:44, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:::: I think we should kill it. Inject some Cylon baby blood and let our character pages walk tall and healthy again. If we want to aid browsing of characters by type or something, we could do some categorization that would work wonderfully, I think. We've talked about a lot, but, say, Main/Supporting (needs a new name, but both Bill and Saul would go here), Recurring (Zarek and that level of folk), Pilots/ECOs (also needs a new name), Command Staff, Civilians, Deck Crew, Marines... That way, someone could scroll down to the end and see a list of categories this character is in and choose what similarity they want to browse by. The current system assumes the user wants to browse by the criteria of Main/Supporting, whereas multiple categories let the ''user'' choose. This is maybe not the best place to voice this, huh? --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:35, 4 February 2006 (EST)

== TOS Character Improvements ==
Are there any other characters that you would like to see spruced up (other than Tigh, who is still a Todo)? If so, please add them to the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|OSAD]] page. I think we're getting closer to where we need to be on the characters. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:24, 21 February 2006 (EST)

== Thanks ==

Thanks for the welcome! [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 16:35, 22 February 2006 (EST)

== Great to see you around! ==
Great to see you on the recent changes! You are definitely missed while you are gone. I hope the hunt is going well. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:20, 22 March 2006 (CST)

:Thanks, SV. I've found a library to dive into periodically to do job stuff...strange how three weeks can leave you feeling really out of sorts. I can see things have been busy around here. Did we give [[User:Day|Super Mop Boy]] a fresh mop? Wow, even Merv is calm. I bet he's been replaced by a Cylon. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:24, 22 March 2006 (CST)

::If you mean quiet, I am pretty active now more than Merv. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:18, 22 March 2006 (CST)

:::Er, not quite Shane. You have been quite active with the proposed Portals system, but Farago, myself and others are still waiting on you to develop a functional prototype system before we pass judgement on it. Meanwhile my...''projects'' proceed apace...--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:07, 22 March 2006 (CST)

::Seriously. I haven't even been gone and I feel out of the loop sometimes. It's good to have you back. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:33, 22 March 2006 (CST)

== Enhanced recent changes ==

Kevin, I believe you used the enhanced recent changes feature, correct? If so, I'm letting you know now that it works. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:15, 5 April 2006 (CDT)

:Good deal, Joe. I'll try it out again. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:47, 13 April 2006 (CDT)

==Persimmons?==
I would like to ask your permission to use your likeness (from the image for your user page) in a project I'm working on. It's just a little banner I'm putting together for the Galactica BS fan art forum (not going to be on the front page of anything, just in a post or two (if the original ends up being quoted). I haven't started on yours yet, and I'd rather not spoil the "surprise" of what exactly I'm doing until closer to unveiling, but I could promise a preview before it is "published" (aka posted into my fan art thread). Just drop a note here (or on my talk, or email, or whatever) letting me know. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:49, 16 May 2006 (CDT)

:Sure, parsnipping granted. Which one are you using? The Morpheus look or the Jedi look? I have a MacBook Pro on loan, so I should update myself with an actual photo sometime. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:27, 16 May 2006 (CDT)

::I wouldn't have had an answer earlier today, but I'm nearly done having used the Jedi look. It's a far more multi-use picture, as looking "hard" can cut across genres, while the Morpheus shades are pretty distinctive. I'll wait until they are all done and give you guys your preview at the same time. It's gone a lot faster than I would have expected, and I've learned a heck of a lot more about shadows than I ever knew. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 19:38, 16 May 2006 (CDT)

:::I sent a link to a preview using your Yahoo account. Have you received that, and if so, is it ok? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:21, 18 May 2006 (CDT)

==Dumb question==

Did you just get an account on the official messageboard? I am referring to [http://mboard.scifi.com/showprofile.php?Cat=0&User=2928884&Number=1856432&Board=BattlestarGalactica&what=showflat&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1 this fellow] --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:11, 26 May 2006 (CDT)
:That doesn't strike me as Spencerian's brand of humor. (Though I could be wrong.) It is a great example of the fact that they could really use REAL moderator/admins over there. I know the current ones are probably understaffed/overworked, but have they ever heard of delegating? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 22:11, 26 May 2006 (CDT)

:It's not me. Though I like to think I'm unique, I can't find myself by googling my real name. I'll come up with folk singers as well as some Canadian "South Park"-like animated TV show. If I use my board name, there's the font, the poet, and me. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:47, 26 May 2006 (CDT)

::Yeah I thought some moron was making fun of you doing that. Just wanted to give you a heads up. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 10:25, 27 May 2006 (CDT)

== New Article: Emergency Jump Coordinates ==

Hey spenc, would you mind taking a look at the new [[Emergency Jump Coordinates|Article]]? It´s my first one and I´m not very good at syntax yet. Looking forward to any kind of constructive criticism!

== hey, thanks! ==

thanks for the praise! my next idea was to write a little piece for the FTL article, about the way that jump coordinates are actually calculated. this would be based upon the miniseries and scattered.
what do you think?

Battle of Kobol (TRS)

2006-05-31T21:02:31Z

Rafale: /* Scattering of the Fleet */ link update

{| border=1 width=300 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0 align=right style="margin-left:1em;margin-bottom:1em"
|+ Battle before: [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] Battle after: [[Great Cylon Turkey Shoot]]
|colspan=2|[[Image:DoctorStrangeLove.jpg|center|300px|]] Cylon Basestar destroyed by a tactical nuke, in orbit of Kobol
|-
!colspan=2 bgcolor=#aaaaee|Battle of Kobol
|-
|Conflict||[[Cylon Attack|Second Cylon war]]
|-
|Date||[[Re-Imagined Series Timeline|Day 50-51]]
|-
|Place||[[Kobol]], nearby space
|-
|Result||Colonial victory
|-
|colspan=2|
{| border=1 width=300 cellpadding=2 cellspacing=0
|-
!colspan=2 bgcolor=#aaaaee|Combatants
|-
| width=50%|Remnants of the [[Colonial Fleet]]
| width=50%|[[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]]s
|-
!colspan=2|Commanders
|-
|Commander [[William Adama]], Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
|Unknown
|-
!colspan=2|Strength
|-
|[[Battlestar]] [[Galactica]] 
18-35 Vipers 
6 Raptors 
One captured Raider (on Caprica) 
One captured Heavy Raider (on Caprica) 
|2 [[Basestar (RDM)|Basestars]] 
[[Raiders]] 
At least one [[Heavy Raider]] 
Fixed anti-aircraft emplacement (on Kobol) 
At least 5 Cylon Centurions on Kobol 
10 Cylon Centurions on ''Galactica''
|-
!colspan=2|Casualties
|-
|Destruction of two Raptors. 10 killed on [[Raptor 3]], 4 on [[Raptor 1]]. 11 killed in Cylon boarding of the ''Galactica''. Total [[Survivor Count]] decremented by 34, excluding Cylon agents.
|Destruction of 1 Basestar over Kobol Loss of at least 5 Centurions on Kobol Loss of 10 Centurions on ''Galactica'' Unknown number of Raiders 1 Heavy Raider
|}
|}

Battlestar ''Galactica'' stumbles upon the mythological human homeworld of Kobol and attempt to use its secrets or resources. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])

== Discovery ==

During a reconnaissance flight, pilots [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] and [[Crashdown]] return to ''Galactica'' with information on an unusual habitable planet. Investigation of the ruins and features of the planet confirm that the ''Galactica'' had discovered, by accident, the original homeworld of [[Kobol]], detailed extensively in the scriptures from the [[Lords of Kobol]]. Adama directed three [[Raptor]]s to conduct a thorough surface survey of the planet, particularly to note whether the fleet should settle there.

As the Raptors complete their jump near Kobol, they are attacked by [[Raider]]s. One Raptor is destroyed and a second jumps away to safety. A third is shot and crash-lands on Kobol.

Since the orbiting Basestar prohibited a rescue of the surviving crashed Raptor crew, [[Kara Thrace]] suggests the use of the captured Raider ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]) to sneak near the Basestar with a nuclear warhead, leaving it there to destroy the capital ship and as many Raiders as possible. Adama agrees to the plan. However, intervention by President [[Laura Roslin]] with Thrace leads the pilot to disobey orders and to divert the Raider while on a test flight to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] to seek an artifact known as the [[Arrow of Apollo]]. This change requires Adama to direct Valerii to fly a Raptor with a [[Cylon Transponder]] to the Basestar ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).

Simultaneously, Adama demanded Roslin resignation over her violation of the chain of command. When she refused, he ordered a marine team on three raptors to arrest her, led by Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] and Captain [[Lee Adama]]. During this operation, the younger Adama unsuccessfully mutineed against Tigh and was himself arrested.

The Raptor entered the occupied zone undetected, but a problem with weapon deployment forced the crew to land within the Basestar in a habitable area to manually deploy the weapon. Valerii encountered several [[Cylon agent|Cylon]] copies of herself while in the Basestar, who apparently activated more of her latent Cylon programming. They detected the nuclear warhead, but nevertheless allowed it to detonate. The Basestar was destroyed with all hands, clearing the way for a rescue operation and leaving a small party of Cylons stranded near the ruins of the [[Opera House]] on Kobol. This was perhaps the first time during the entire [[Cylon Attack|Second Cylon War]] that Colonial forces successfully destroyed a Cylon Basestar.

As Adama congratulated Valerii, the Cylon agent pulled out her pistol and fired on the Commander twice at point-blank range.

== Scattering of the Fleet ==

In the chaos caused by the shooting, another Cylon Basestar suddenly appears. Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] assumes command of ''Galactica'', with Captain [[Aaron Kelly]] serving as his second. Medical staff attended to the seriously-wounded William Adama, Valerii is taken to a high-security brig facility, and Lee Adama is placed in a cell adjacent to Roslin. Caught by surprise, Tigh orders the fleet to jump to its [[Emergency_Jump_Coordinates| emergency jump coordinates]] pre-planned by standard procedure by Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]]. However, ''Galactica'' herself had incorrect jump coordinates and finds herself separated from the rest of the fleet ([[Scattered]]). The ship cannot return to their original location to obtain the fleet location by conventional procedure; this would take hours, and the Basestars would likely destroy the ship in far less time. Gaeta devises a way to determine the fleet location faster by temporarily networking several ship computers to process data faster. Knowing that the Cylons would attempt to inflitrate the network, Gaeta places four software firewalls in place to slow the progress of the expected infection.

The downed Raptor crew on Kobol, lead by [[Crashdown]] attend as best they can to their injured. They are later attacked by [[Cylon Centurion]]s and flee to the woods for cover.

''Galactica'' returns to its previous location and is immediately attacked by the waiting Cylon fleet. Lee Adama is released on parole to lead a squadron of Vipers in defense of the ship. During the attack, a [[Heavy Raider]] heads for ''Galactica''. [[Lee Adama]] attacks the craft, which veers into ''Galactica'''s firing solution and crash-lands in the starboard landing pod, depressurizing it (it had been converted as a museum area in preparation for the ship's decommissioning and was unused for flight operations). Gaeta successfully obtains the fleet coordinates, but not before a Cylon virus infects one of the networked systems, a fact of which the command staff is not yet aware. He disconnects the network a moment later. ''Galactica'' jumps to reunite with the remaining fleet.

== Cylon Boarding ==

The crashed Heavy Raider in ''Galactica's'' starboard landing pod deploys 10 specially-armored Cylon Centurions, which can only be destroyed by explosive rounds ([[Valley of Darkness]]). At the same time, the Cylon virus infects other systems of the ship and shuts down parts of the [[CIC]]'s control. Tigh orders a counterattack, wary that the Cylons will attempt to vent the ship's crew to neutralize them and turn the ship's guns on the unarmed fleet to destroy them. Marine forces lead by Sergeant [[Hadrian]] and [[Lee Adama]] manage to destroy the boarding party before they can reach their targets.

Lee Adama begins preparations to rescue the downed Raptor crew from Kobol, and leads a team with two Raptors as part of the rescue team.

== Raptor Team Rescue ==

Shortly after their two most seriously wounded teammates have died, [[Crashdown]] and the Raptor team scout and locate a group of three Cylons building an anti-aircraft battery using parts from their downed Heavy Raider (or variant) to order to destroy any ''Galactica'' search-and-rescue craft ([[Fragged]]). The battery is linked to a [[DRADIS]] dish set up some distance from the it. Crashdown develops a plan to distract the Centurions while a smaller group destroys the DRADIS dish, rendering the battery tactically worthless. As the team prepares their attack, they discover there are 5 Centurions, not the 3 initially counted. The team also hears the sonic booms caused by Raptors, indicating their rescue would be arriving soon. Specialist Cally is ordered to create the distraction by Crashdown anyway, but she refuses in fear. When Crashdown threatens to kill Cally for disobeying a direct order, he is shot in the back and killed instantly by [[Gaius Baltar]].

The gunshot alerts the Centurions to the team's presence, and they flee. The battery fires on the incoming Raptors, but Chief [[Galen Tyrol]] successfully destroys the DRADIS dish, which breaks the missile's lock on the Raptors. The Centurions are destroyed by a Raptor missile from Lee Adama's Raptor. The survivors are rescued and return to ''Galactica''.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Battles]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Timeline (RDM)

2006-05-31T20:57:16Z

Rafale: /* Scattered */ link update

:''Dates use the day of the [[Cylon Holocaust]] as a baseline. See also [[Survivor Count]], [[History of the Twelve Colonies]].''

==Ancient History==
*'''-3600 Years:''' [[Pythia]] records her prophecies.
*'''-2000 Years:''' The thirteen tribes leave [[Kobol]]: twelve for the [[Cyrannus System]], the other for [[Earth]].

==Recent Colonial History==
*'''-52 Years:''' Cylon revolt begins the [[Cylon War]]. [[Articles of Colonization]] signed ([[Colonial Day]], [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/04/index.html#a000025 RDM, April 11, 2005]).
*'''-51 Years''' Colonials suffer a major defeat when the Colonial ship ''[[Brenik]]'' is lost after a boarding action by Cylon Centurions, which resulted in some of the bloodiest, hand-to-hand fighting of the war. A young Petty Officer [[Saul Tigh]] is one of a handful of survivors.
*'''-50 Years:'''
** [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' enters service under Commander [[Nash]].
*'''c. -41 years:''' [[William Adama]] begins his service in the Colonial Fleet as a Viper pilot, near the end of the Cylon War.
*'''-40 Years:''' Armistice between the Colonials and the Cylons ends the [[Cylon War]].
*'''-20 Years:'''
**Last significant [[FTL|Jump]] recorded on battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'s'' logs.
**[[Tom Zarek]] imprisoned for blowing up a government building on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]] ([[Bastille Day]]).
**[[William Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh]] first meet ([[Scattered]], podcast).
**[[Laura Roslin]] begins her career in politics ([[Litmus]]).
*'''-7 Years:''' [[Saul Tigh|Saul]] and [[Ellen Tigh]] marry. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]], [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/deleted1.html deleted scene])
*'''-5 Years:'''
**[[Laura Roslin]]'s last breast exam prior to her cancer diagnosis ([[Act of Contrition]]).
**[[Galen Tyrol]] assigned to ''Galactica'' ([[Litmus]]).
*'''-3 Years:''' [[Felix Gaeta]] assigned to ''Galactica''.
*'''-2 Years:'''
**[[Caprica Six]] begins residence on Caprica ([[Downloaded]]), first encounters Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] ([[Miniseries]]).
**[[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|A copy of Sharon Valerii]] begins serving aboard ''Galactica'' ([[The Farm]]).
**[[Zak Adama]] dies in a flight school accident. His funeral is Lee and William Adama's last meeting until the miniseries.
**Lt. [[Kara Thrace]] is re-assigned from Flight School to Battlestar ''Galactica'' ([[Act of Contrition]]).
*'''-1 Year:''' Last time [[William Adama]] and [[Caroline Adama]] speak.
*'''-Several months''' [[Caroline Adama]] gets engaged.
*'''-3 Weeks:''' [[Anastasia Dualla]] last visits her home.
*'''Zero Hour:''' Cylons [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|destroy]] the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]]. The (so-far-known) only known survivors are a rag-tag fugitive fleet escorted by ''Galactica''; ''Pegasus'', which was another [[Pegasus (RDM)|isolated battlestar]]; a fleet of 15 civilian FTL capable ships; and the [[Resistance (movement)|resistance]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. Events of the [[Miniseries]].

==Season 1==
*'''Note:''' Timeline assumes that the days shown on [[Caprica]] with [[Helo]] corresponds to the timeline on Galactica. A strong example of this is in the season 1 finale "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", when [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] travels from Galactica to Caprica.''

*'''1 Day:''' [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]. ''Galactica's'' fleet leaves [[Cyrannus]] System.
*'''6 Days:''' ''Galactica'' finally loses the Cylon pursuers. Events of episode "[[33]]".
*'''7 Days:'''
**First new child born on the ''[[Rising Star]]''.
**''Pegasus'' encounters a fleet of 15 civilian ships, including ''[[Scylla]]''.
*'''10 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Water]]"
*'''12 Days:''' Tom Zarek engineers the capture of the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' by its prisoner crew. Events of episode "[[Bastille Day]]".
*'''14 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Act of Contrition]]". [[Skirmish over the Red Moon|Starbuck is missing after a Cylon fight]].
*'''15 Days:''' Events of episode "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]"
*'''17 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Litmus]]"
*'''21 Days:''' First recollection by any of the ''[[Rising Star (RDM)|Rising Star]]'' crewmembers of giving [[Ellen Tigh]] medical assistance ("about a week" before "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]").
*'''24 Days:''' [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica Valerii]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] first make love. Events of episode "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]"
*'''25 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Flesh and Bone]]"
*'''26 Days:''' Ellen Tigh resumes consciousness ("a couple of days" before [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).
*'''28 Days:''' Events of episode "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]".
*'''36 Days:''' [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]]. Caprica Valerii is pregnant and suffering morning sickness. Events of episode "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]".

===[[Colonial Day]]===

*'''Day 46:''' Delegates selected for the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. [[Tom Zarek]] selected to represent [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]]. Roslin implores Adama to permit his participation. [[Valance]] prepares to smuggle a ceramic stealth gun into the ''[[Cloud Nine]]''. Zarek addresses the fleet from the prison ship [[Astral Queen]]. Gaius Baltar selected to represent [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]. Apollo and Starbuck inspect the [[Cloud Nine]].

*'''Day 47 - Morning:''' Colonial Day. Delegates arrive on Cloud Nine. Roslin addresses the Quorum. Baltar eyes [[Playa Palacios]]. Zarek moves to elect a vice president and is nominated by [[Marshall Bagott]]. Motion passes, chair to remain open 72 hours for nominations.

*'''Day 47 - Afternoon:''' Roslin asks [[Wallace Gray]] to run for the vice presidency. Zarek expounds on his reform agenda. Valence scuffles with Apollo and Starbuck and is jailed. Helo and Caprica Valerii arrive at a spaceport in the vicinity of [[Delphi]].

*'''Day 47 - Evening:''' Starbuck and Apollo interrogate Valence to no effect.

*'''Day 48 - Morning:''' Grey addresses the Quorum. [[Safiya Sanne]] changes [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]]'s vote to Zarek, bringing his total to 5 of 12.

*'''Day 48 - Afternoon:''' Zarek serves [[Ellen Tigh]] a drink and inquires after the whereabouts of Valence. Baltar interviewed by [[James McManus]]. Valence found dead. Tigh, Apollo and Starbuck consult with Roslin on security.

*'''Day 48 - Evening:''' Roslin travels to ''Cloud Nine'' and asks Grey to drop out of the race and recruits Baltar to replace him, interrupting his "exclusive" with Palacios. Apollo and Starbuck flirt in the bunk on ''[[Galactica]]''.

*'''Day 49 - Morning:''' Baltar elected Vice President, with Roslin casting the tie-breaking vote.

*'''Day 49 - Evening:''' Victory party for Baltar. Roslin dances with Adama, Ellen with Saul Tigh, Billy with Dualla, Starbuck with Apollo and Baltar.

*'''Day 49 - Night:''' Helo and Caprica Valerii infiltrate the spaceport. Helo discovers Valerii is a Cylon and flees.

''Note: Roslin states that the chair will remain open for nominations for 72 hours on the morning of Day 47, but the [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|next episode]] clearly takes place the day after the victory party, and is stated to take place on Day 50. Perhaps the Quorum moved to close the nomination period early after the nomination of a strong candidate.''

===[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]===
*'''Day 50 - Early Morning:''' Apollo and Adama spar. Baltar and Starbuck have sex. Caprica Valerii catches up with Helo at [[Delphi]], and he shoots her. ''Galactica'' Boomer contemplates suicide. [[Cottle]] examines Roslin and gives her "six months, at the outside".

*'''Day 50 - Morning:''' Starbuck and an (already) drunken Baltar exchange innuendos over the officer's card game.

*'''Day 50 - Afternoon:''' Roslin briefs Baltar on her economic agenda. [[Number Six|Six]] warns him that "it's not safe to remain on ''Galactica''". ''Galactica'' Boomer and Crashdown stumble upon [[Kobol]]. Helo holds Caprica Valerii at gunpoint. Apollo and Starbuck exchange blows.

*'''Day 50 - Evening:''' Roslin examines an orbital photograph of Kobol and has a vision of the [[City of the Gods]]. Adama decides to send an expedition, which Baltar demands to accompany. ''Galactica'' Boomer shoots herself on Baltar's advice. In private, Roslin unsuccessfully petitions Commander Adama to send the Cylon Raider after the [[Arrow of Apollo]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]].

*'''Day 50 - Night:''' [[Battle of Kobol]] begins. Scout party ambushed by a [[Cylon Basestar]] at Kobol. Starbuck devises a plan to deliver a nuke to the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] using the captured [[Cylon Raider|Raider]] and [[Cylon Transponder]]. Roslin convinces her to purloin the Raider and take it to Caprica instead.

===[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]===
*'''Day 51 - Early Morning:''' Survivors of [[Raptor 1]] escape the wreck. Baltar passes out. Adama terminates Roslin's presidency. Apollo and Tigh plan an assault on ''[[Colonial One]]''. Adama dispatches the wounded Boomer to take out the basestar. Caprica Valerii leads Helo to [[Delphi Museum of the Colonies]].

*'''Day 51 - Morning:''' Starbuck arrives at Caprica, retrieves the [[Arrow of Apollo]], kills a copy of [[Number Six|Six]] and meets up with Helo. ''Galactica's'' [[Marines|marines]] board ''[[Colonial One]]''. Apollo mutinies, Roslin stands down. Baltar has a vision of the shape of things to come. ''Galactica'' Boomer confronts other Valerii copies on the basestar. She returns from her mission and shoots Commander Adama.

==Season 2.0==
''Note: Season 2 dates are rough guesses, at best, and are complicated by the [[season two timeline discontinuity]]. Dates for the first half of the season are based off of the last dates given at the end of season one.

===[[Scattered]]===
*'''Day 51 - Morning:''' A [[Cylon Basestar]] ambushes the fleet, which jumps to an [[Emergency_Jump_Coordinates| emergency rendezvous point]]. ''Galactica'' jumps to wrong coordinates and is forced to backtrack. [[Battle of Kobol#Scattering of the Fleet|''Galactica'' holds off basestar]] and returns to bulk of the Fleet.

===[[Valley of Darkness]]===
*'''Day 51 - Morning:''' ''Galactica'' is partially disabled by a Cylon [[Virus|virus]] while a [[Cylon Centurion]] boarding party attempts to [[Battle of Kobol#Cylon Boarding|commandeer the ship]].

===[[Fragged]]===
*'''Day 51 - Afternoon:''' [[Crashdown]] is shot by [[Gaius Baltar]] on Kobol after threatening to shoot [[Cally]].

===[[Resistance]]===
*'''Day 52:''' Tigh interrogates Tyrol and imprisons him with [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)]].

*'''Day 53 - Morning:''' [[Cally]] blackmails Baltar into running his Cylon test on Tyrol. Baltar notes to Tigh that he should assume Roslin's duties; he invites Baltar to join her in the brig. ''[[Aturian]]'' stops refining Tylium in protest of Martial law. Apollo briefs pilots in the ready room. Dualla checks out his ass. On Caprica, Starbuck and Helo meet [[Samuel Anders]]'s [[Resistance (movement)|Resistance]].

*'''Day 53 - Afternoon:''' Tigh deploys troops to vessels refusing to supply ''Galactica''. The [[Gideon]] Massacre takes place. Roslin is chagrined. Apollo initiates his escape plan.

*'''Day 53 - Evening:''' Saul and Ellen Tigh argue and have sex. Baltar poisons Tyrol and interrogates Boomer. Starbuck and Helo arrive at the Resistance HQ with Anders.

*'''Day 54 - Morning:''' Apollo delivers briefing, orchestrates Roslin's escape. The deck gang begin construction of a new brig cell for [[Cylon agent|Cylon agents]].

*'''Day 54 - Afternoon:''' Apollo & co. disembark at the [[Cloud Nine]] and link up with [[Tom Zarek]]. Starbuck and Anders flirt.

*'''Day 54 - Evening:''' Commander Adama wakes up. Cally kills ''Galactica'' Boomer.

===[[The Farm]]===
*'''Day 61:''' - Laura Roslin & co. take refuge on ''[[Kimba Huta]]''. William Adama resumes command of ''Galactica''.

===[[Home, Part I]]===
*'''Day ?? - Morning:''' Kara Thrace's captured [[Cylon Heavy Raider|Heavy Raider]] jumps into orbit around Kobol. Tom Zarek attempts to have it shot down because it's not the same Raider that Thrace departed in. Thrace lands her Heavy Raider aboard the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' and is reunited with President Roslin and Lee Adama. Lee learns that in addtion to Karl Agathon, Thrace brought back the Caprican copy of Sharon Valerii, whereupon Lee pulls a gun on Sharon. After defusing the situation with words, Roslin orders Valerii thrown out the airlock, but relents and has her thrown into the brig instead, after hearing both Thrace and Agathon's protest. Commander Adama promotes Captain [[George Birch]] to be the new ''Galactica'' CAG.

*'''Day ?? - Afternoon:''' Commander Adama holds a press conference regarding the escape of President Roslin from his custody and the ensuing martial law. Adama adjourns the press conference when the questions become increasingly pointed.

*'''Day ??+1 - Morning:''' Cpt. Birch on his first mission as CAG is responsible for an accident that nearly kills [[Kat]]. Zarek and his trusted lieutenant [[Meier]] plot to overthrow Roslin and take command of the fleet.

*'''Day ??+1 - Afternoon:''' Cpt. Birch oversees his second flight mishap as CAG when two ships he's supposed to be guiding collide with one another during a routine refueling operation.

*'''Day ??+2 - Morning:''' Roslin's party, made up of Thrace, Cpt. Adama, Elosha, Zarek, Meier, Agathon, Boomer, two Zarek red-shirts, two Roslin red-shirts and Rolsin herself land on Kobol. Using Valerii as their guide they set out in search of the [[Tomb of Athena]].

*'''Day ??+2 - Afternoon:''' The party is ambushed by Cylon Centurions after Elosha accidentally trips a "bouncing betty" land mine and it blows up in her face, killing her. The surviving party is saved when Valerii uses an RPG launcher to destroy the last remaining Centurion.

*'''Day ??+2 - Evening:''' Adama makes the decision to put the fleet back together after a long and heartfelt talk with [[Dee]].

===[[Home, Part II]]===
*'''Day ??:''' - [[Raptor 1]] lands on Kobol with [[William Adama]] and his contingent. [[Tomb of Athena]] found.
*'''Day ??:''' - Roslin reestablished as lawful President; martial law ends. Fleet reunification.

===[[Final Cut]]===
*'''Day ??''' [[D'anna Biers]] produces a documentary aboard the Galactica about the "[[Gideon massacre]]". It is a generally positive documentary broadcast to the fleet. Unknown to the fleet, it is also surveillance by the Cylons into the status of the Colonial fleet.

===[[Flight of the Phoenix]]===
*'''Day 84''' - Laura Roslin is given a few weeks, a month at the most to live. [[Cally]] is released from the brig; a welcome back party is thrown for her by the deck crew.
*'''Day ??''' - [[Chief Tyrol]] begins construction of the [[Blackbird]] prototype stealth fighter.
*'''Day ??''' - [[Great Cylon Turkey Shoot|''Galactica'' routs hundreds of Cylon fighters]] without a casualty while dispatching a [[Logic bomb]] from their ship computers.
*'''Day ??''' - The [[Blackbird]] prototype stealth fighter is completed by [[Chief Tyrol]] and a team of Galactica crewmembers. Lt. Thrace flies it on its first test flight, quickly proving its value as a stealth craft.

===[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]===
*'''Day ??''' - ''Galactica'' encounters battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. Admiral [[Helena Cain]] assumes fleet command.
*'''Day ??'''- [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] accidentally kills ''Pegasus'' Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne|Thorne]] and is arrested with [[Karl Agathon|Helo]].
*'''Day ??''' - A standoff between the two battlestars begins over the treatment of the arrested ''Galactica'' crew.

==Season two timeline discontinuity==
:''Main article: [[Season two timeline discontinuity]]''
Based on various evidence, the end of "Resistance" can be very firmly dated to Day 54. This puts Cally's release at Day 84, and in turn means that as of "Flight of the Phoenix", Roslin was not expected to live past day 114. Corroborating this, Sharon Valerii does not appear visibly pregnant in "Pegasus".

However, in the following episode, Admiral Cain states offhandedly that it has been about six months since the fall of the colonies. This is further corroborated in "Epiphanies", which we learn takes place 189 days after the holocaust (a full 75 days longer than Roslin's most favorable prognosis). Additionally, Valerii now appears to be well into her second trimester, and elections have been put off by 75 days from their first-season projections.

There is apparently no way to reconcile this discrepancy. Even under the most liberal assumptions, the first half of the second season timeline cannot accommodate more than about three additional days.

Consequently, there is a 75-day discontinuity between the fist and second halves of season two. The second half of the season is dated from the firm dates given in "Resurrection Ship, Part I" and "Epiphanies", but be aware that dates throughout the remainder of season 2 are likely to contradict those from earlier in the series.

==Season 2.5==
===[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]===
*'''Day ~175''' - The standoff between the two battlestars ends in an uneasy truce, and a tense summit aboard Colonial One, after Lt. Thrace returns from an unauthorized surveillance mission to the Cylon fleet, where she gains critical evidence on a Cylon ship. Dr. Baltar is able to determine from [[Gina]] that this is the [[Resurrection Ship]] that cylons need to resurrect so far from the Cylon homeworld.

===[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]===
*'''Day ~177''' - The Battlestars Galactica and Pegasus together engage the Cylon fleet in the [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship]], where they achieve an overwhelming victory with relatively light casualties, destroying not only the Resurrection Ship, but at least one other Cylon base star. The Blackbird is destroyed in the battle, although Lee Adama manages to eject successfully. At least one Raptor is also lost in the battle. Admiral Cain is killed by Gina, after Baltar helps her escape captivity. He then proceeds to hide her in the fleet.

===[[Epiphanies]]===
*'''Day 189''' - President Roslin near death; orders death of Cylon fetus. A [[Demand Peace|Cylon peace movement]] begins to pose as a threat to [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]]. The Cylon fetus is eventually spared, when Dr. Baltar determines how to use Cylon fetal stem cells to treat Roslin's cancer. Dr. Baltar smuggles the nuclear weapon that he was provided with for work on his Cylon detector to the Cylon peace movement aboard Cloud Nine.

===[[Black Market]]===
*'''Day ???''' - Commander Fisk is murdered aboard the Battlestar Pegasus. Lee Adama begins an investigation into the matter.
*'''Day ???''' - Lee Adama kills [[Phelan]], leader of the [[Black market (organization)|Black Market]] crime syndicate.
*'''Day ???''' - Lee Adama is debriefed on the entire incident regarding the murder of Fisk and the Black Market.

===[[Scar]]===
*'''Day ???''' - After 29 days in an asteroid field (putting us at Day 218 or later), the ''[[Majahual|Majahual's]]'' mining operation has produced enough raw materials for the construction of two new Viper squadrons using the fabrication facilities aboard the [[Pegasus (RDM)|Battlestar ''Pegasus'']]. Attacks on the operation continue by the ace Cylon raider known as [[Scar (Raider)|Scar]], making it the source of a heated competition between Lt. Katraine and Cpt. Thrace.

===[[Sacrifice]]===
*'''c. Day 210''' - Three men and a woman named [[Sesha Abinell]] lay siege to bar onboard [[Cloud 9]], taking the guests hostage, and sealing the area off from the rest of the ship. Abinell's husband was killed aboard the ''[[Greenleaf]]'' when the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] attacked it ten weeks ago, and she decides to exact vengeance. Lee Adama is wounded as a result of a failed rescue attempt by [[Kara Thrace]]

''Backdated from "The Captain's Hand" and "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I"''

===[[The Captain's Hand]]===
*'''c. Day 236''' - [[Kara Thrace]] assigned to ''Pegasus'' as flight instructor.
*'''Day ??''' - Almost one month after the events of "Sacrifice", [[Lee Adama]] has been promoted to Major and temporarily assigned to ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''. [[Rya Kibby]] arrives on ''Galactica'' seeking a clandestine abortion from Dr. [[Cottle]] and requests asylum.
*'''c. Day 240''' - ''Pegasus'' Commander [[Barry Garner]] dies during the [[Battle of the Binary Star System]]. Adama is promoted to Commander and given command of ''Pegasus'', with Thrace replacing him as CAG of ''Galactica''. In response to heavy lobbying from Gemenon delegate [[Sarah Porter]] over the Kibby incident, Roslin places a moratorium on abortion. In protest, Vice President Gaius Baltar announces his candidacy for president in the upcoming election.
''Backdated from "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I".''

===[[Downloaded]]===
*'''Day 270 (Zero Hour + 9 months)''' - [[Hera]] born. This episode claims that the previous episode "[[Resistance]]" took place "10 weeks before" Day 270. However, 10x7 = 70 and 270 - 70 = 200, this would put Cally's shooting of ''Galactica''-Boomer ''after'' "[[Epiphanies]]" which was stated to take place on Day 189. Even a very liberal estimate could not possibly place "Resistance" more than a week or two after "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II", when it was stated on screen that it was Day 51. This reference to "10 weeks" is a mistake, which will be corrected in the DVD and international releases of "Downloaded".

===[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]===
*'''c. Day 256''' - [[Galen Tyrol]] begins a series of recurring suicidal nightmares.
*'''c. Day 269''' - Presidential debates begin. [[Kara Thrace]], [[Felix Gaeta]] and [[Lee Adama]] brief pilots on Caprica SAR mission on ''Pegasus''. Tyrol attacks [[Cally]] after being woken from a nightmare.
*'''c. Day 270''' - Media reports on first debates. SAR team departs; [[Margaret Edmonson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmonson]] and crew accidentally discover a habitable planet and return to [[the Fleet]]. Tyrol begins counseling with Brother [[Cavil]].
*'''c. Day 280''' - Final presidential debate. SAR team arrives at Caprica and meets with [[Samuel Anders]]'s [[Resistance (movement)|Resistance]].
*'''c. Day 283''' - Polls open (projected).
''Tom Zarek states that the fleet has been "cooped up in metal boxes for nine months" the morning after the debates. This date is roughly taken as Day 270, with an implied give-or-take of a couple weeks. The surrounding events noted above can, however, be placed relative to this point with a good degree of certainty based on episode dialogue.''

===[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]===
*'''Day 281''' - Thrace's SAR team and Anders' resistance are pinned down by a Cylon sneak attack. They are under siege for 18 hours, the next morning they awake to find the Cylons have completely abandoned Caprica.
*'''Day 282''' - The SAR mission returns to Galactica, Cavil is discovered to be a Cylon when a second copy steps off a Raptor.
*'''Day 283''' - The polls open, Baltar wins. Tory Foster conspires with Col. Tigh and Dualla to rig the vote results to keep Roslin in power. Their plan is found out by Lt. Gaeta and Admiral Adama convinces Roslin to let the people's will prevail and let Baltar become president.
*'''Day 284''' - Baltar is inaugurated President. A distraught and emotionally bankrupt [[Gina]] detonates the nuclear warhead given to her by Baltar and destroys ''Cloud 9'' and several other near-by ships.
*'''c. Day 285''' - Adama visits President Baltar aboard ''Colonial One'' and questions him about the ''Cloud 9'' disaster. A defiant Baltar rebukes all his questions and accusations.
*'''Between c. Day 285 and 660''' - The fleet settles on [[New Caprica]]. Kara Thrace and Samuel Anders marry. Galen Tyrol and Cally marry, Cally becomes pregnant, Tyrol becomes a union head. Dualla transfers to ''Pegasus''. Most of ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' crews retire from active military duty. Dualla becomes Lee Adama's Tactical Officer on ''Pegasus''. Felix Gaeta retires from military duty and becomes President Baltar's aide, Karl Agathon replaces him in the CIC. Former President Laura Roslin becomes a school teacher on New Caprica, Maya, Hera's adoptive mother, is her teacher's assistant. Lee Adama and Kara Thrace have fallen out of favour with one another, while Thrace and Col. Tigh appear to have mended fences.
*'''c. Day 660''' - Admiral Adama discharges Col. Tigh from his duties aboard ''Galactica''. Tyrol and Cally organize a general labor strike in protest of Baltar's poor leadership as President. Cylon forces occupy New Caprica.

==Future Events==
*'''<s>Day 86 + 1 month (c. Day 116):''' Roslin's maximum life expectancy as of Day 86 ([[Flight of the Phoenix]])</s>
*'''<s>Day 54 + 3 months (c. Day 144):''' [[Samuel Anders]]'s [[Resistance (movement)|Resistance]]'s anti-radiation med supply projected to run out ("[[Resistance]]").</s>
**Anders' group survives in "[[Downloaded]]", c. Day 270. They could have simply found more stockpiles of anti-radiation meds in the intervening time period.
***Radation from nukes drop at an exponential rate. It's possible that measured background radiation dropped enough so the anti-radiation meds were no longer needed.
*<s>'''Day 12 + 7 Months (c. Day 222):''' Elections due for President of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] ([[Bastille Day]]).</s>
**<s>As of "[[Downloaded]]", c. Day 270, the elections are near but have not yet arrived.</s>
***The elections come and go. [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] is elected President ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]] and [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|Part II]]).
*'''<s>Day 50 + 6 Months (c. Day 230):''' Roslin's maximum life expectancy as of Day 50 ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).</s>
**<s>Roslin promised to get the fleet to [[Earth]] before her death '''(c. Day 230)'''</s> ([[Fragged]]).
***As of Day 660 Roslin is still alive and the fleet has not made it to Earth yet ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).
*'''<s>Day 24 + 9 Months (c. Day 294):''' [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|"Caprica" Sharon Valerii]]'s daughter born. (see [[#Notes|Notes]] below)</s>
**[[Hera]], daughter of [[Helo]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|"Caprica" Sharon Valerii]] was born premature c. Day 270 ([[Downloaded]]).
*'''Day 36 + 3 years (c. Day 1131):''' Fleet runs out of [[tylium]] fuel that was resupplied from the Cylon asteroid mine; assuming that no other sources have been found before this date. ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]])
*<s>'''Day 260 (approx) + 18 years (c. Day 6,830)''' Time at which, if the [[Survivor count]] keeps up its current rate of decline and never increases, the human race will simply go extinct, according to Baltar's estimate in "[[The Captain's Hand]]".</s>
** Due to the destruction of ''[[Cloud 9]]'' and surrounding ships in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]", this figure has been drastically altered.

== Notes ==

*The above day listings use a simplistic calendar system with 30 day months and no leap years. The colonial calendar may be more sophisticated.
*<s>The date of Valerii and Agathon's child is speculated, assuming that the [[Cylon agent]]s share the same gestation period that humans do, and that the birth of their hybrid daughter is not [[Wikipedia:premature birth|premature]].</s>
**Date of Hera's birth is now confirmed at Day 270.
*Later episodes in "Season 2.5" such as "Resurrection Ship, Part I" and "Epiphanies" state clearly that "Pegasus" and the episodes immediately following it take place six months after the Cylon Attack. Ron D. Moore did state that it took Tyrol "weeks" to construct the Blackbird and a large amount of time passes in this episode as a result. ''BattlestarWiki'' originally assumed this meant at most 2-4 weeks. However, the only plausible way that Pegasus and Resurrection Ship, Part I can take place six months after the attack is if "Flight of the Phoenix" actually lasted''' three months '''from beginning to end. Roslin was told in this episode that her cancer had accelerated, and she had only one month to live. As Cally's "welcome back" party happened earlier in the episode, when she was released from the brig around Day 86, a considerable period of time (several weeks at least) pass between these two scenes.

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:RDM]] [[Category:Colonial History|*]] [[Category:Behind the Scenes]]

Emergency jump coordinates

2006-05-31T20:55:56Z

Rafale: forgot to add link to FTL

'''Emergency Jump Coordinates'''; also "Emergency Standby Coordinates", "Escape Coordinates" or simply "emergency coordinates"; are part of standard [[Colonial Fleet]] fleet maneuver doctrine. They are being referred to by the letters of the [[Colonial wireless alphabet]], namely as "Alpha"{{ref|EJC1}}, "Bravo", "Constellation" and so on. This indicates that multiple sets of Emergency Jump Coordinates can exist simultaneously, to be used in different contingencies or as part of a larger battle plan. They are distributed by the flagship among a group of ships. Emergency Jump Coordinates provide that there are known and predefined rallying points for multiple contingencies in case of emergencies.

The authority to order a [[FTL|jump]] to the escape coordinates rest with the fleet´s [[Actual|Principal officer in command]].

Their calculation and distribution are a part of routine day-to-day operations and fall within the responsibility of the [[Tactical Officer]], in the case of [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']], Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]. They are updated on every watch with new starfixes to compensate for inertial drift and then distributed to [[The Fleet (RDM)|the fleet]]. {{ref|EJC2}}

==Appearances in the Re-imagined Series==

Emergency Jump Coordinates were not explicitly mentioned in "[[33]]". The reasons for this may be that the collective jump of the fleet into safety had become "routine" rather than an emergency procedure.

In "[[Scattered]]" [[Saul_Tigh|Col. Tigh]] orders an immediate jump to the emergency coordinates. When ''Galactica'' finds herself isolated from the rest of the fleet, Tigh states that while ''Galactica'' did update her jump coordinates with the change of watch, Lt. Gaeta failed to transmit the new sets of coordinates to the rest of the fleet.

==Sources==

{{note|EJC1}} When Tigh orders the jump in "Scattered", [[Anastasia Dualla|Dee]] mentions "Emergency Coordinates Alpha". Given that it is real-life practice of differentiating between multiple versions of the same thing by adding CWA or latin letters or numbers, it seems logical to assume that doctrine provides for the existence of more than one set.

{{note|EJC2}} This is mentioned by Col. Tigh to his wife, [[Ellen Tigh|Ellen]] in "Scattered".

William Adama

2006-05-31T20:54:37Z

Rafale: /* Kobol and Earth */ link update

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:William Adama promo.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname= William Adama
|callsign= Husker
|death=
|parents= [[Evelyn Adama]] (mother), [[Joseph Adama]] (father)
|siblings=
|children= [[Lee Adama]] (alive), [[Zak Adama]] (deceased)
|marital status= Divorced ([[Caroline Adama]]), remarried to [[Anne Adama]]
|role=Commanding Officer, [[Battlestar (RDM)|Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''; Supreme Commander of the [[Colonial Fleet]]
|rank=Admiral
|cylon=
|actor=[[Edward James Olmos]]
|name=
}}

Admiral '''William Adama''' is the commanding officer of the [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'', and the highest ranking officer left in the [[Colonial Fleet]].

== Biographical Notes ==

=== Background ===

William Adama was born on Caprica to [[Evelyn Adama|Evelyn]] and [[Joseph Adama]]. His mother was an accountant and his father, an attorney specializing in civil liberties ([[Litmus]]). They divorced while he was in his teens.

At the outbreak of the first [[Cylon War]], Adama was serving in the [[Colonial Fleet]] as a [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] pilot. He allegedly gained the call sign of "Husker" on account of his baritone "gravelled" voice. He proved to be a gifted pilot, shooting down his first [[Cylon]] on his very first mission. He racked-up his 1,000th deck landing while serving aboard the Battlestar ''[[Atlantia]]'' ([[Act of Contrition]]), when he held the rank of Lieutenant.

Adama served on ''[[Galactica]]'' during the war as a pilot. In the last week of the war, the battlestar was boarded by Cylon forces. He recalled to his friend and fellow war veteran [[Saul Tigh]] that the Cylons divided into two teams. One headed for the ship's [[Aft Damage Control|secondary damage control]] and vented the atmosphere, while the other proceeded to [[Auxiliary Fire Control|auxiliary fire control]] and turned ''Galactica'''s guns against the fleet. Over 2,000 people died in the attack ([[Valley of Darkness]], [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/202/deleted1.html deleted scene]).

Following the Cylon armistice, William Adama married [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]]. They had two sons together: [[Lee Adama|Lee]] and [[Zak Adama|Zak]], before the pressures of Adama's career and the time he spent away from home of active service began to place a strain on their marriage. Nevertheless, this did not stop both Lee and Zak following their father into the service - both signing-up for training as Viper pilots.

[[Image:Youngadamafamily.jpg|thumb|left|A young William Adama and his two sons.]]

A photograph seen in the Miniseries seems to imply that Adama was still in the fleet when his children were roughly six to eight years old, but within a few years he had been discharged as the result of a reduction-in-force. His marriage to Caroline had apparently fully deteriorated by this point, and he found work on a civilian freighter where he met [[Saul Tigh]], who was to become a longtime friend.

After some time as a civilian, Adama married a second time, to a woman named [[Anne Adama|Anne]]. Her father was able to pull some strings with the defense subcommittee and Adama was reinstated to the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Adama himself arranged for Tigh's reinstatement a few years later.

=== Son's Death ===

During his training, Zak Adama became involved with his flight training officer, Lt. [[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]], to whom he became engaged shortly before taking his final qualifying flight ([[Act of Contrition]]). As a result of this, Thrace allowed her personal feelings interfere with her professional judgment, passing Zak Adama through flight school when she should have failed him ([[Miniseries]]). Zak was later killed in an operational flight.

As a result of his son's death, Adama faced the failure of his marriage and estrangement from his eldest son, Lee. However, to counter this, he became acquainted with Kara Thrace, and such was the bond that formed between them, Thrace transferred from flight school to one of the Battlestar ''Galactica's'' squadrons, where she served with Adama for some two years before the Cylon's reappearance ([[Act of Contrition]]).

Adama is a natural military leader, as demonstrated by his rise to rank of Commander in charge of a Colonial battlestar. He has the rare combination of qualities that make up a good leader: insight, the ability to naturally command respect, a common touch that enables him to relate to the enlisted personnel under his command as well as his officers, intuition, intelligence, a strong belief in his own abilities, and the ability to take the advice of others. These qualities are reflected in the fact the personnel of all ranks aboard ''Galactica'' hold him in high regard, and know that his is approachable ([[Miniseries]]).

If Adama has any failings, they are his mistrust of politicians and his strong sense of loyalty to those he regards as family and friends. The former is demonstrated in his uneasy acceptance of [[Laura Roslin]] ([[Miniseries]], "[[33]]", "[[Water]]"), which is quickly undermined by Roslin's own doubts following her encounter with [[Leoben Conoy]] ([[Flesh and Bone]]). The latter is most clearly demonstrated by both his support of Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] and his actions when Kara Thrace is posted as Missing in Action.

Despite Tigh's obvious drinking problem ([[Miniseries]]), Adama retains him as his [[Executive officer]] when another commanding officer might have too easily transferred Tigh to a planetside desk job to avoid the embarrassment. While this demonstrated Adama's unstinting friendship for Tigh, it does the colonel no favors with the officers and crew under his command - many of whom are openly dismissive of him ([[Miniseries]]) - a fact that may encourage his drinking.

With Thrace, Adama's loyalty places the mission to find her above the need to protect [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] and ensure the survival of humanity - thus putting everyone at risk ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).

=== Surprise [[Cylon Attack]] ===

At the time of the Cylon's sudden attack on the Twelve Colonies, William Adama is serving out his final weeks as commander of the battlestar ''[[Galactica]]''. After some 50 years of service, the historic warship is in the process of being decommissioned, and it was one of Adama's final duties to formally hand her over to the [[Colonial Ministry of Education]] (by way of Education Secretary [[Laura Roslin]]) who would operate the ship as a living museum commemorating the original Cylon War and an educational center ([[Miniseries]]).

As a part of the decommissioning ceremonies, someone decides it would be a fitting tribute to have Lee Adama, recently-promoted to the rank of Captain, lead an honor flyby of Vipers - an ironic statement at best, given the strained relationship between the two men. The situation is not made any easier when Lee Adama finds he is to fly his father's battle-honored old Mark II Viper.

When he is first notified of the Cylon attack, Adama's first thoughts were, "Dead. We're all dead" ([[Home, Part II]]). Despite this, as well as the presumed loss of his wife in Caprica City, he manages to shepherd [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] to safety. Since the attack on the Twelve Colonies, Adama strives to lead the remnants of humanity with the same conviction as has marked his entire military career. Military discipline remains (mostly) intact aboard ''Galactica'', and she continues to operate as a top-rate warship, despite her lack of any other military support (up to the discovery of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'') and despite her reduced complement in terms of both fighters and crew.

[[image:Mini_Adama_Tigh_DRADIS.jpg|thumb|left|300px|Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] and Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] plot a course to [[Ragnar Anchorage]] in the [[Miniseries]].]]
As a combat veteran, Adama is more than capable of both strategic and tactical operations and making the decisions both require. When [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]] Fleet Headquarters is destroyed and then Admiral [[Nagala]] is killed, he unhesitatingly takes control of the Colonial's response to the Cylon incursion and starts defining a response to the onslaught. Once President Roslin convinces Adama the futility of fighting against overwhelming odds, and with what may be the last 50,000 humans that remain anywhere, he makes the switch to the more tactical thinking that keeps the Colonial fleet at least one step ahead of their Cylon pursuers. From the outset, he is savvy enough to give every single survivor of the devastating attack on the Colonies a reason for hope for the future: the legend of Earth. This falsehood comes back to haunt him as the weeks continue, as Roslin is aware of this lie to the crew and states this privately to Adama.

Away from the daily rigours of command, Adama continues to face the problem of infiltration within the Fleet by [[Cylon agent]]s. ("[[Litmus]]", "[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]") and the possibility of saboteurs aboard ''Galactica'' and the Fleet ([[Water]]) - sabateurs who are still be at large, waiting for an opportunity to strike again. Adama has also had to redefine the boundaries of military and civil leadership, working as best he can with Laura Roslin, now recognized as the President of the people of the Twelve Colonies following the loss of practically all of the original Colonial [[government]].

Events since the Cylon attack causes Adama to reconcile with his son, Lee. While they do not always see eye-to-eye, the needs of ''Galactica's'' crew and humanity as a whole have enabled them to better understand one another and move past their differences.

Following the loss of seven of the ''Galactica's'' pilots, Adama is forced to face the truth concerning Zak Adama's death, and Kara Thrace's role within it. In a strange way, these two events are something of a catalyst for one another - Thrace's admission to Adama forces him to realize how precious his remaining son is to him, and how difficult a father he must have been ("[[You Can't Go Home Again]]", "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]"); Adama's ability to admit his love and respect for his son enables the elder Adama to overcome his anger towards Thrace after her admission to him ([[Act of Contrition]]).

===Kobol and Earth===
At the start of the exodus from the Twelve Colonies, Adama uses the legend of Earth as a means of binding the remnants of humanity together with a single hope. Unfortunately, this later causes the greatest rift in leadership within the Colonial fleet. Following the accidental discovery of [[Kobol]], which [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] sees pre-ordained in scripture, Adama finds himself confronted by what amounts to a court-martial situation. With members of his crew -- and the Vice President, [[Gaius Baltar]] -- trapped on the surface of Kobol, Adama orders Kara Thrace to use a captured [[Cylon Raider]] to destroy a Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in orbit above Kobol. However, President Roslin persuades Thrace to use the Raider to go to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] to retrieve the [[Arrow of Apollo]] at [[Delphi]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

This action results in Adama terminating Roslin's presidency in what amounts to a coup, only to find [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] forced to arrest [[Lee Adama]] for mutiny while on ''[[Colonial One]]'' to remove President Roslin from office. With Thrace gone, Adama dispatches [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Lieutenant Valerii]] to destroy the basestar over Kobol. While the mission is successful, Valerii's Cylon programming reveals itself and shoots Adama at point blank range as he thanks her for her work on her return ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Adama's injuries are left untreated when a second basestar suddenly appears, forcing ''Galactica'' and the Fleet to perform an [[Emergency_Jump_Coordinates|emergency Jump]].

Unfortunately, the chaos of the situation leaves ''Galactica'' without the same Jump coordinates as the Fleet, and the battlestar is separated in another area of space ([[Scattered]]). Worst of all, Dr. [[Cottle]], the Fleet's only doctor, is on one of the other ships in the Fleet. While Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]] determines how to return to the Fleet, and as ''Galactica'' is raided by a [[Cylon Centurion]] boarding party, the [[Layne Ishay|medics]] on hand stabilize the commander's condition long enough for Dr. Cottle to return. After a lengthy and risky operation, Cottle repairs the damage to Adama's body.

Adama rests unconscious while Tigh declares martial law to counteract Roslin's supporters in the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. Roslin escapes the ship with Lee Adama's help, and hide throughout the fleet as Adama regains consciousness and returns to command. Roslin gains sufficient support and returns to Kobol, convincing over a third of the Fleet to Jump to Kobol in search of the path to Earth. Adama is incensed as, being a man with generally secular beliefs, he never truly believed in the existence of Earth of the Pythian scriptures and (incorrectly) feels that most others believe the same.
[[image:Home_pt1-Adama.jpg|thumb|300px|Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] paints a model boat while talking to [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] in "[[Home, Part I]]."]]
Adama's calm exterior barely holds back the helplessness and rage he feels over the betrayal of his son, Sharon Valerii, Roslin, and over 18,000 others that left with Roslin for Kobol. While at first Adama takes a similar stance to Tigh in assuming a hard military posture, a conversation with Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] helps him realize again (as Dualla and [[Billy Keikeya]] showed him before the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]) that, despite the problems, the Fleet is his family, and the family must stay together. He orders the remainder of the Fleet to prepare to return to Kobol ([[Home, Part I]]).

Adama's attitude about Roslin and her quest changes from anger to genuine interest as he and his command staff track the likeliest location where Roslin's group searches for the [[Tomb of Athena]]. Rather than being skeptical about Roslin's visions, for instance, Adama begins to take them as face value, considering that data just as useful as the maps in front of him. Realizing that only he could reach out to Roslin to reunite the Fleet ("It was always between us anyway"), Adama leaves ''Galactica'' to Tigh's command while he, Tyrol, [[Margaret Edmonson|Racetrack]], and Keikeya head to Kobol to find Roslin's group.

Adama greets his son, Lee, with raised guns, accidentally surprising Roslin's camp. Adama hugs his son and warmly greets Roslin and Thrace. However, on seeing the Caprica-based version of Sharon Valerii, Adama examines her eerily, grabs her by the throat and hurls her down to the ground while the camp tries to explain the reason why she was in camp. "I want you to die" was all that Adama could express before his pent-up anger became more physical, the exertions from his recovery catching up to him. He rolls off Valerii with aid, clutching his chest. Adama is given an explanation but remains understandably wary of this new copy of the [[Cylon agent]].

Adama and Roslin have a talk unlike any other they've shared in the past, both calling each other by their first names, casually. Adama tells Roslin that he forgives her for her actions in the past weeks, and leaves the apology stand even when Roslin casually notes that she wasn't asking for his permission. When Roslin speaks of the [[Resistance (movement)|resistance]] on Caprica and whether ''Galactica'' and her Fleet should have returned to fight instead of leaving from Ragnar Anchorage, Adama rejects the notion, saying he did not come to Kobol to "navel gaze" at what they could have done. He thanks Laura for saving him, his son, and the Fleet, for if he did not follow Roslin's advice to leave the system before the fight at Ragnar, he believes they would have all died.

Moments after discovering the entrance to the Tomb of Athena, Caprica-Valerii raises a gun at Adama's chest while [[Meier]], one of [[Tom Zarek]]'s men, raises his gun to Lee Adama, who is now aiming at Valerii. Meier was attempting an assassination of both Adamas to allow Zarek more political power after Roslin's demise, trying to use Valerii as a pawn to remove attention from Zarek. Immediately, Valerii turns her gun to Meier and fires. Lee Adama picks off a second shooter, while Valerii explains to Adama that she is fully aware of who she is and that, unlike her ''Galactica'' counterpart known as Boomer, she does not have hidden protocols or programming. She surrenders her weapon to Adama. Adama's feelings on Valerii remain guarded as she is placed in the special cage created for her counterpart on their return to ''Galactica.''

Adama enters the Tomb with Roslin, Lee, Kara, and Billy, the rest left guarded by Tyrol. The group successfully activates the map with the [[Arrow of Apollo]] and gain useful information on the true whereabouts of Earth. Back on ''Galactica'', Adama firmly buries the hatchet between he and Roslin publicly by introducing Roslin as the President for a speech to members of the fleet, and leads a formal, unified ovation by applause for Roslin ([[Home, Part II]]).

===Common Ground===

To help undo the damage to the military's reputation in the Fleet after the "''[[Gideon]]'' incident", President Roslin and Adama give a [[Fleet News Service]] reporter, [[D'anna Biers]], unlimited access of the ship to interview the crew and watch their work and off-shift behavior. Bier's resulting documentary is very moving, and Adama gives his approval to release it for airing to the Fleet, who believes it shows the best of his crew, "warts and all". Adama is not aware that Biers is a Cylon infiltrator that has also passed out intelligence to her counterparts on Caprica of the existance and pregnancy of Helo's copy of Sharon Valerii ([[Final Cut]]).

''Galactica'' is beset by mysterious malfunctions throughout the ship. Worse, crew morale is very low, with no relief, little true recreation, and a sense of no future plagues many throughout the ship. Even the stoic and reliable Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] vents his frustration to the surprise of everyone in [[CIC]]. Deck Chief [[Galen Tyrol]], fighting his own sense of hopelessness, begins a project to build a replacement fighter from spare parts. Over time, others in the ship join in on the "pet project". Despite the need to stop the increasing malfunctions, Adama is reluctant to stop work on Tyrol's project unless necessary as it gives the crew a creative outlet. Some time later, after the new fighter completes its maiden flight, Adama and Roslin christen the new stealth fighter, the [[Blackbird]]. Adama tells Roslin that the crew's nicknaming the fighter "Laura" was a honor they wanted to do for the President, given her service to them as well as their feelings about her illness.

Adama solicits the help of the incarcerated Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii, ordering [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] to show her a portion of the Cylon virus code found in the ship's computers. She reacts in shock and tells Adama that this code was part of a [[logic bomb]] that will take over the battlestar, killing its crew and directing its guns at the remaining Fleet to destroy it. She also strongly believes, as did Adama, that this bomb was an indication of an imminent Cylon attack. Lieutenant Gaeta and [[Gaius Baltar]] devise a way to rid themselves of the bomb, but during this process, the battlestar would be practically defenseless. Adama needs a way to stop the incoming Cylon forces and asks President Roslin for advice on trusting the second Valerii for help. She responds by asking him to find common ground between Valerii and himself, despite his prejudices about her. In a desperate plan, Adama brings Valerii to CIC, where she uses her Cylon brain to send a virus back to the massive Cylon fleet that appears, deactivating every single enemy fighter. ''Galactica's'' Vipers easily destroy all enemy Raiders without a single casualty ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

===The Discovery of Battlestar ''Pegasus''===

The sudden discovery of the [[Mercury class battlestar|advanced battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', commanded by Admiral [[Helena Cain]], is a very welcome event for Adama and his war-weary crew, and surely brings additional hope to the civilian fleet. But Cain's command staff--as well as her crew--seem oddly power-hungry, angrily disciplined, and, perhaps, the perfect reason why the Cylons might decide the human race should be annihilated. Adama, a soldier accustomed to taking orders, puts on a stoic face as Cain assumes command of the fleet. Not even Adama's relaxed smile convinces Laura Roslin of Adama's attitude when she asks how he was handling his change in command. Her guess was correct: something about the Admiral bothers Adama, but he is reluctant to discuss it. Adama follows his own truism about the Admiral: stick to what you know, until you find something better.

Adama's troubles with Cain begin with her choice to furnish supplies only to ''Galactica'' and not the civilian fleet, a point that Roslin hopes Adama would be able to correct. After Cain reads Adama's ship logs of the last 3 months, Cain reassigns Lieutenant Thrace and his son, Lee, to her ship. She explains that Adama was too close to his son, that Starbuck was an insubordinate officer that required structure, and that Adama had let military discipline become lax. Adama's stony face barely hides his anger, which he partially releases on Apollo and Starbuck as he orders them without commentary to transfer to ''Pegasus.'' Cain makes some valid observations about lax discipline on ''Galactica'', so Adama grudgingly accepts her re-shuffling of personnel.

Matters with Cain's unusually totalitarian command style come to a head when Cain orders her "Cylon interrogator", Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne]], to interrogate the normally cooperative [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii]]. Thorne's method of "interrogation" was sexual assault. Lt. Agathon and Tyrol discover the truth of Thorne from members of ''Pegasus''' crew. They rush to Valerii's cell and stop Thorne, accidentally killing him. Adama is given assurances by Cain that the arrested men will be tried fairly on her ship, but she refuses to assemble a tribunal to conduct the trial.

A few hours later, Adama is told that Agathon and Tyrol were tried and convicted--and solely by Cain herself. Cain claims that wartime status granted her extra powers, but Adama disagrees, realizing that his fleet wasn't on an offensive posture and requires cooperation and not military rule, as ''Galactica'' could have done long ago at Ragnar Anchorage by fighting to win and abandoning the civilian fleet. Adama's stony acceptance of taking orders from the renegade admiral immediately ceases. He orders the alert Vipers and a Raptor--filled with [[marines]]--to head to ''Pegasus'' to retrieve his men, and Cain deploys her Vipers. Adama is headed into yet another fight for the survival of his Fleet--his family--against a vastly superior force, and it doesn't seem to matter to him one wit if it is the Cylon fleet, or Cain's hostile, warmongering forces ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

The standoff between the battlestars fortunately doesn't begin with an exchange of any fire from battlestars or fighters. However, Adama watches as his Vipers dance with ''Pegasus'' Vipers in a deadly game of "chicken", with ''Pegasus'' pilots attempting to force ''Galactica's'' fighters to fire first, which, by rules of engagement, would authorize return fire. Adama keeps silent, awaiting the inevitable collision or misfire that will start the bloodshed when Lt. Gaeta picks up what appears to be a [[Raider]] that manages to get ''very'' close to the Fleet without an earlier [[DRADIS]] alert. Picking up the surprise target as well, ''Pegasus'' fighters stop the chicken game and fly formation with Adama's fighters to intercept the target. The target turns out to be Kara Thrace in the [[Blackbird]], returning from her unauthorized but very successful self-appointed reconnaissance mission to the mysterious Cylon ship that trails the Fleet. Her sudden entrance allows a ''detente'' between the battlestar commanders, who meet on ''Colonial One''. There, President Roslin gives both commanders a harsh grilling and reminds them of the importance of the Fleet's survival and the intentions of the Cylon fleet following them. Adama appears actually chastized about the situation and remains quiet, except when Roslin patronizes Cain in saying that ''Pegasus'' would triumph in a firefight with ''Galactica'' ("I wouldn't count on that," he simply says). After Cain leaves, Roslin speaks with Adama privately and, to Adama's surprise, suggests that he kill Cain before she kills him and destroys the Fleet for her own wartime devices. Adama leaves to think about it, unsure if he could be an assassin.

Adama apologizes to the most unlikely person: the copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], who was sexually assaulted by ''Pegasus'' Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne]]. While Valerii shows signs of shock and anger, Dr. [[Cottle]] acknowledges she and her unborn baby are mostly unharmed. Adama asks Cottle to see that ''she'' is OK (not calling her "it") and orders her returned to her cell after her care. Afterwards, Adama visits the port [[hangar deck]], appearing as to get Viper flight status, but in reality is there to learn a little about [[Peter Laird]], his interim deck chief from ''Pegasus''. Realizing he's not military, Adama asks more from [[Cally]], who says that rumors indicate that Laird was from a civilian fleet once guarded by ''Pegasus''. A conversation with Colonel Tigh and Jack Fisk confirms the worst: ''Pegasus'' abandoned its civilian fleet, but not without conscripting many civilians into military service and stripping supplies and fuel from it, leaving what remained of the ships to fend for themselves. Resistance was quelled by shooting the families of those who would not leave with the battlestar, Fisk said.

Adama's relationship with Roslin grows closer. He visits her in bed, not looking at all well, but jovial nonetheless. Adama inquires of her unusually "bloody-minded" attitude towards Cain; Roslin replies that as long as Cain survives, his future and that of the Fleet is at risk. He asks if she needs anything, and Roslin humorously suggests she'd like a nice, young [[Cylon agent|Cylon body]] to replace her own. When Adama says he can't picture her as a blonde, Roslin smiles and says that he'd be surprised. As he leaves, wiping a tear from his eye as he turns back to the president, Roslin reminds him to watch his back, and do what he has to do.

After a briefing on the upcoming battle to destroy the [[Resurrection Ship]] and its fleet, attended by Cain and Adama, Adama requests permission to speak more with Kara Thrace on the battle tactics, which Cain grants as she returns to ''Pegasus''. Adama dismisses his son, cryptically telling him "Stay focused, son," while he asks the unusual from Thrace. After the battle, Adama asks her to enter the ''Pegasus'' CIC, with Lee Adama by her side to cover her, and to shoot Admiral Cain in the head. Little does Adama know that Admiral Cain has planned a similar assassination attempt with her XO and several members of her Marine division ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]])

Lieutenant Lee Adama visits his father by volunteering for a courier run between the battlestars. The elder Adama doesn't want to talk too much about the operation, but is happy to see him. Adama continues his new pattern of seeking advice from unusual places by inviting his copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] to his quarters to ask her why the Cylons hate the humans so much. She can't answer the question directly, but asks him to remember something in the speech he gave at the decommissioning ceremony ([[Miniseries]]): Has humanity asked itself ''why'' it deserved to survive, given all its failings?

With the battle to destroy the Resurrection Ship a success, Adama has an opportunity to have Starbuck shoot Cain, but takes the advice of Valerii again and chooses to be better than what humans have become. Strangely, Cain also aborts her attempt on Adama's command and life, something that greatly relieves [[Jack Fisk]], who laughs out loud and invites the crew for a drink.

Cain's fate is sealed not by Adama but [[Gina]], the captured and tortured Cylon agent, who shoots and kills the admiral in her quarters. After Cain's funeral, on ''Colonial One'', President Roslin, looking very frail, promotes Adama to Admiral, joking that some people may not think she knew much about military protocol, but that she knows that a commander of two or more capital ships should be an admiral. Adama smiles, says that he's never given up hope about getting admiral rank, but stopped chasing them after a while. Roslin appears ready to retire and has trouble standing, when Adama helps lift and steady her. In a pleasant surprise, now-Admiral Adama takes Laura Roslin's face in hand and gives her a simple, affectionate kiss, which she returns to smiles on both faces. [[Billy Keikeya]] helps the president back to her quarters while Adama's smile turns into sadness over Roslin's illness ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

=== Admiral Adama ===

Shortly after the Battle of the Resurrection Ship, it is clear that Roslin is nearing death. In her final moments, Roslin orders Adama to kill Caprica-Valerii's [[Hera|unborn child]]. Adama cannot bring himself to terminate the pregnancy, and it is shortly revealed that it is a good thing he hesitated: Baltar finds a cure for Roslin's cancer within the child's blood. Roslin is saved and Adama is visibly pleased that she has pulled through. Meanwhile, Adama becomes aware of the [[Demand Peace]] movement among the fleet. Adama meets with [[Royan Jahee]], the leader of the movement, and attempts to explain that the Cylons don't want peace, they want too annihilate every living human being. Jahee doesn't believe Adama, and the meeting ends with the two men in no different places than where they started ([[Epiphanies]]).

===The Election and the "Lighthouse Keeper"===
Adama offers ''Galactica'' as the location for the counting of ballots during the Presidential Election, a proposal which is accepted despite Zarek's protests over the ships connection with Roslin ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). Unknown to Adama, Tigh and Dualla conspire to rig the election in favor President Roslin out of mistrust for Dr. Baltar (an opinion which Adama shares). Not long after the polls close and she is declared the winner, Lt. Gaeta contacts the admiral with his suspicions that Tigh attempted to rig the election. When confronted, Roslin admits that she gave her aid, Tory Foster, permission to "try something," out of almost desperation; she is certain disaster will strike if Baltar is elected and begs Adama to keep quiet by telling him of Baltar's involvement with [[Caprica-Six|Six]]. Adama isn't swayed, and convinces Roslin that the correct course of action is to acknowledge a miscount and cover the conspiracy. When President-Elect Baltar demands an investigation into the midcount, an irritated Adama orders him to take his victory and leave, which Baltar does grudgingly.

When [[Cloud Nine]] and two other ships blow up as a result of [[Gina]]'s nuclear bomb, Adama is privately infuriated at Baltar's refusal to investigate, and begins to wonder if he hadn't made a mistake.

A year later, Adm. Adama commanded a heavily under-staffed ''Galactica'' as the flagship of a Defense Fleet, consisting of all ships unable or unwilling to make planetfall on [[New Caprica]]. Adama convinced [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] to rejoin Ellen in [[New Caprica City]] after months of debate, with [[Helo]] acting as his new XO. Not long after Saul left, Dualla, acting XO of the Pegasus, discovered the Cylon Fleet bearing down on New Caprica. After a brief discussion, the Adamas agreed to jump the Fleet to pre-arranged coordinates. The admiral issued the orders with a reminder "We're leaving... but we'll be back." ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

==Additional Notes==
*[[Wikipedia:Adama|Adama]] (also known as Nazareth) is the name of a large city in Ethiopia. The name is also a variation on [[Wikipedia:Adam and Eve|"Adam"]], the first man to be created according to the Bible in the [[Wikipedia:Genesis|Book of Genesis]].

In hebrew the word pronounced "Adama" means earth.
Here is SkyOne's summary of Adama:

:''William Adama was born on the colony of Caprica, in a small coastal community.''

:''His mother Evelyn was an accountant and his father, Joseph, was an attorney who specialised in criminal defence and civil liberties.''

:''At the age of 16 his parents divorced and he applied to the Colonial Fleet Academy. That same year, the Cylon War broke out. Adama's training accelerated along with all other midshipmen.''

:''After 3 years Adama was commissioned to work as a flight pilot; he gained a further two years of training before Adama joined his first squadron. He was a gifted, natural pilot and he shot down a Cylon fighter in his first mission.''

:''After the war was over, Adama was mustered out of the service along with millions of other colonials as part of demobilization process. He went home to Caprica, married his high school sweetheart and started life over.''

:''Adama struggled to find work as a pilot and so signed up as a deck hand in the merchant fleet. This experience would later give him an uncommon insight into the lives and struggles of the enlisted ranks aboard Galactica.''

:''Adama later had two sons, Lee and Zak. But over the years his exploration aboard ships would see Adama spending less time with his sons. He always tried to instill duty and admiration for military services. But was still surprised to learn that both his sons decided to enter the Fleet and become pilots.''

:''When Zak died during a training flight. Lee confronted his father and laid blame for his younger brother's death.''

As this information has not appeared on the official Scifi.com site, its authenticity is in question. Further, this information states that Adama was fighting in the war 5 years into it, when the war lasted 12 years and RDM has stated in podcasts that Adama only served in the final year of the war.

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{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Adama, William]]
[[Category:Characters|Adama, William]]
[[Category:RDM|Adama, William]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Adama, William]]

[[es:William Adama]]

CIC

2006-05-31T20:52:43Z

Rafale: /* Tactical Station */ link update & concise

:''This article discusses the CIC of battlestar ''Galactica'' of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. The CIC of the battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' is markedly different in appearance, but may contain similar stations.'' 

[[Image:Bsg-cic-2.jpg|thumb|300px|The Combat Information Center. (c) Universal)]]
The veteran Colonial [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' is centrally operated from the '''Combat Information Center''', or '''CIC''', the battlestar's nerve center, or equivalent to the "bridge" in naval parlance.

CIC is a faintly-circular room is located deep in the interior "alligator head" of the battlestar, where the main hull meets the midship section. From CIC, the battlestar's tactical and navigational operations are monitored and directed. CIC is a large, two-level complex with three bulkhead exits, which are closed during [[Action Stations|action stations]] alerts.

''Galactica's'' CIC is divided into several stations.

* '''Command and Control Center'''
* '''Communications Station'''
* '''Damage Control Station'''
* '''Helm Control Station'''
* '''Tactical Station'''
* '''Weapons Control Room'''

===Command & Control Center===
[[Image:Cic_cmdcontrolstation.jpg|thumb|The Command & Control Center. (c) Universal)]]
The ''[[Command & Control Center]]'' features a roughly hexagonal table, lit from below. There are no chairs; the command staff are always standing.

Here, the battlestar's commander and [[Executive officer]] are on station, observing and plotting battle tactics, viewing transparent charts, and giving commands to others in CIC. Above the Command and Control Station are a cluster of monitors known as the [[Dradis console|DRADIS console]]. The DRADIS console descends from a cylindrical ceiling recess when required. From the Command and Control Station, the commander has a 360-degree view of the CIC. The DRADIS console contains DRADIS displays but also includes other navigation and tactical information available to the commander at a glance.

The commander of battlestar ''Galactica'' in its exodus from the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] is [[William Adama]]. His Executive officer is Colonel [[Saul Tigh]].
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[[Image:Cic_commstation.jpg|left|thumb|The Communication Station. (c) Universal)]]

===Communications Center===
Adjacent to the Command and Control Center on the port side of CIC is the ''Communications Center.'' Here, all communications to and from fighters and other ships are monitored, directed or relayed. In coordination with the Tactical Station, the Communications officer watches for [[IFF|transponders]] that register as friendly, and alerts the Tactical Officer or commander if they pick up signals without transponders or recognized enemy transponders. The Communications officer has a link to the [[Computers#Mainframe computer|mainframe computer]], where a library of Colonial recognition information resides.

''Galactica's'' primary Communications officer is Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]. 
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[[Image:Dmgcontrolconsole.jpg|thumb|[[Galen Tyrol]] at DC panel after a nuclear strike on the port [[flight pod]] ([[Miniseries]]). (c) Universal)]]
===Damage Control Station===
Situated in the far port side of CIC is ''Damage Control.'' This station, usually unmanned, contains the Damage Control computers, which connect to many sensors throughout the exterior and interior of the ship. A large display against the wall of the station shows damage through a series of lights that represent the [[Frame|frames]], or compartments of the battlestar that form the many segments of the ship.

[[Image:Cicdmgcontrol.jpg|left|thumb|The Damage Control Station. (c) Universal)]]
A commander can order a Damage Control officer to perform many actions to repair or mitigate the effects of an enemy attack through the controls here, including the venting of compartments, coordination of damage control teams, and the like. It is also likely that alternative damage control stations outside of CIC, such as [[Aft Damage Control|the Aft Damage Control room]] contain similar controls to aid in repairs, control of fires and the like in the event that CIC's damage control is knocked offline or CIC staff are incapacitated.
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[[Image:Cichelmcontrol.jpg|thumb|Helm Control. (c) Universal)]]
===Helm Control===
Battlestars are flown like a submarine navigates in an ocean. While external cameras may be available, they are seldom used in navigation of a battlestar. Navigation is managed by spatial coordinates based on [[DRADIS]] and other sensor information. The helm crewmembers drive the battlestar through a series of controls and based on commands from the Executive officer or commanding officer.
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[[Image:Cictacticalstation1.jpg|thumb|left|The Tactical Station with tactical plot and table. (c) Universal)]]
===Tactical Station===
The Officer of the Watch/Tactical officer is arguably the busiest officer in ''Galactica's'' CIC. Tasked with the monitoring of [[DRADIS]] and coordinating various command and control functionality, including [[Computers|computer control]], the Tactical Officer must relay changes in status and keep the commander updated continuously during the fluidic events of battle. The Tactical officer is typically the first to know that an attack is imminent and will address the battlestar by the public address system to go to battle stations through [[Action Stations|Condition One or Two alerts]].

As ''Galactica's'' computers aren't networked, the Tactical officer must manually print or offload data from the various central computers he monitors (Fire control, Navigation, FTL, and mainframe computers) and relay this information to the other officers and staff in the room. Fortunately, many stations see the same information on displays similar to those at the Tactical Station, but it's the Tactical Officer who is charged with notifying the commander of the changes and interpreting the results. ''Galactica's'' Tactical officer also is the administrator for all central computers onboard and provides maintenance as required.

While the Helm officers drive the ship, it is the Tactical officer that plots ''[[FTL|Jumps]]'', the apparently instantaneous leap from one location in space to another location millions of kilometers away. The Tactical officer of ''Galactica'' not only has to provide Jump coordinates to the battlestar's helm, but is also responsible for relaying both scheduled sets and sets of[[Emergency_Jump_Coordinate| Emergency Jump Coordinates]] to over 70 other FTL-capable civilian ships that make up [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] to ensure that all ships always stay close to ''Galactica's''' protective sphere.

Nearby the Tactical Station is a tactical board and table where the commander can meet with several officers and crew at once for advanced battle or strategy conferences. The Tactical Station is frequently manned by other specialists and officers that assist the Watch Officer.

The harried but amazingly calm and reliable Officer of the Watch/Tactical officer aboard ''Galactica'' is the highly-trained and skilled Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]].
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[[Image:Cicweaponscontrol1.jpg|thumb|left|The Weapons Control Room, left of the Tactical Station. (c) Universal)]]
[[Image:Cicweaponscontrol2.jpg|thumb|Another angle from within the Weapons Control Room. (c) Universal)]]

===Weapons Control Room===
Hidden away, next to the Tactical Station is the Weapons Control Room. Obscured from direct view during most episodes, the Weapons Control Room ostensibly is manned during [[Action Stations]]. The battlestar's gun batteries and other defensive controls are managed here.

In the event that the Weapons Control Room or CIC is knocked offline or its crew incapacitated, control of ship's batteries could be managed at [[Auxiliary Fire Control]].
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==Notes==

* The destruction of other battlestars during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]] hinged on the Colonial's dependence on complex networking within most CICs. It is likely that the battlestars that were destroyed required fewer crewmembers to operate it since they used networked computer systems that moved data around faster than the crew that literally ran between stations in ''Galactica's'' CIC with pen and paper or data cartridges to transfer messages and data.

* Unlike her sister battlestars, ''[[Galactica]]'' is the only one without networked computer systems throughout the ship. This simple design, which was a necessary defense when the ship fought in the first Cylon War, saved it again as almost all other battlestars were shut down and destroyed by the tainted [[Command Navigation Program]]. The "CNP" was created by Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] but secretly modified by [[Number Six|a Cylon agent]] with vulnerabilities that could order any ship with the program installed to shut down its own systems. Without the CNP in place and without a central computer network, ''Galactica'' was practically immune to Cylon infiltration and infection tactics and was able to mount a defense.

* A [[Cylon agent]], probably the first copy of [[Aaron Doral]] encountered, installed a [[Cylon Transponder]] at the base of the DRADIS console shortly before the Cylon attack ([[Miniseries]]). Dr. Baltar is aided by his virtual [[Number Six]] in identifying it to the CIC command staff. It is likely that the transponder was placed there to track ''Galactica'' should it escape Cylon attacks.

*The [[Mercury class battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' has a differently designed CIC, but likely contains many of all stations found on ''Galactica.'' There may be fewer stations since this particular battlestar since it was of a more modern class than ''Galactia'', and probably had more automation aboard to reduce crew size; ''Pegasus'' once used computer networks before the destruction of her sister battlestars and the Colonies.

*According to Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] in a deleted scene from "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", the ''Galactica'' CIC is staffed by roughly 50 people.

==Cinematic Information==

* Cinematic realism on the CIC set is enhanced with the use of actual submarine hardware, such as thick phones with cords.
* Unlike the command centers of many science fiction space vessels, ''Galactica's'' CIC does not have a central viewing screen out into space. There isn't a single window looking out, in fact. Navigation is performed from sensor and spatial data not unlike a submarine.
* The CIC set used for the ''Pegasus'' are the modified remains of set hardware intended for use on a revival of the "Lost in Space" television series. When the series project was cancelled, the show's sets were refitted to form the CIC for this advanced battlestar. This is also the behind the scenes reason why the ''Pegasus'' CIC is not as large as the two-level ''Galactica'' CIC; the production team simply could not afford to make another set on the scale of the ''Galactica'' CIC, and were able to build the ''Pegasus'' CIC by purchasing the canceled "Lost in Space" sets for next to nothing.
* The Sci-Fi Channel official web site incorrectly names CIC as the "''Command'' Information Center." The correct name is verifiable from the center's name that is etched in the glass of the doors of the set.
*The Weapons Control Section is a rarely seen (in terms of use in episodes) and secluded part of CIC. The area was shown manned and in action during the closing moments of the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]] ([[Miniseries]]), just before [[Anastasia Dualla]] reports that Starbuck and Apollo have not yet returned to ''Galactica.'' The area was likely built with the set budget before later restrictions would make building one impossible. The angle and enclosed area suggests that the area is used in production to allow film crew to hide off-camera without being off-set during filming.

==Related Articles==

*[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/cic/ Sci-Fi Channel's QuickTime 3D movie tour of the CIC set]
*[[Computers]]
*[[DRADIS]]
*[[Science in the Re-imagined Series]]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Galactica Areas]]

Sherman Cottle

2006-05-31T20:48:29Z

Rafale: /* Biography */ typo

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:bsg-cottle-1.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= Unknown
|birthname= ? Cottle
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Physician on New Caprica, former Chief Medical Officer, ''[[Battlestar]] [[Galactica]]''
|rank= Major
|actor= [[Donnelly Rhodes]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

'''Doctor Cottle''' is [[Galactica type battlestar|Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'s'' irascible Chief Medical Officer ([[CMO]]). Because the ship is operating with a minimal crew compliment leading up to its expected decommissioning, Cottle is the only real physician/surgeon aboard ''Galactica'' (perhaps in the entire [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]), supported by a handful of medics such as [[Layne Ishay]] and [[Howard Kim]]. Cottle is somewhat eccentric -- a heavy smoker, despite knowing the risks, and one not overly impressed by positions of power. He is, above all things, a healer- to him nothing else really matters, be it rank, riches, or species.

== Biography ==

Cottle is the third person in the Fleet to learn about President [[Laura Roslin]]'s fight with cancer ([[Act of Contrition]]), after [[Lee Adama]] ([[Bastille Day]]) and [[Billy Keikeya]] ([[Miniseries]]). He agrees to treat her condition, without revealing it to anyone else, and further agrees to support more unorthodox treatments such as [[Chamalla]] extract. Knowing the extent of her illness and Roslin's reluctance to undergo [[diloxin]] therapy, the doctor also recommends prayer.

Cottle takes a personal interest in [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck's]] recovery after she breaks her leg during a mission ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]). The doctor works with Lee Adama to get her out of sickbay ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]) without initial success.

Grumpy of attitude, yet always professional, Cottle instantly inspires trust, despite his attitude.

After the assassination attempt on [[William Adama]], ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]) Cottle is unavailable to stabilize the Commander as he is aboard another ship in the Fleet. Matters worsen after ''Galactica'''s jump to the [[Emergency_JumpCoordinates| emergency coordinates]] separates Cottle and the battlestar. [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] orders Cottle's medics to stop Adama's internal bleeding ([[Scattered]]). However, while the medics stabilize the Commander's condition, they are unable to fully stop his bleeding. Cottle finally arrives and is able to operate on Commander Adama. After much risky work, the doctor saves Adama's life ([[Fragged]]).

Cottle speaks rather contemptuously of Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]'s authority. When Tigh asks of Adama's condition as Cottle begins surgery to save the Commander's life, he tells the XO, "How should I know? I'm not a psychic. Now get the hell out of here" ([[Fragged]]). Later, after Tigh orders an ill-advised attempt to restore supply runs to ''Galactica'' on the ''[[Gideon]]'', resulting in four civilian deaths, Cottle is anything but sympathetic when Tigh asks what happened: "What'd you expect, genius? You put a pilot in charge of crowd control" ([[Resistance]]).

At the request of President Roslin, despite her straight-to-the-point warning about its illegality and danger (Cottle: "You're a lousy salesman."), he assists Roslin in escaping ''Galactica'' by filing a request for a [[Raptor]] flight away from the battlestar, to care for patients on other ships. Roslin leaves ''Galactica'' on this "appropriated" Raptor with [[Lee Adama]] at the helm ([[Resistance]]).

Major Cottle performs a series of medical scans on [[Gaius Baltar]]'s head at Baltar's request. Unknown to Cottle, Baltar is looking to see if there is a Cylon computer chip implanted into his brain. The scans show absolutely nothing unusual, and Cottle dismisses Baltar as a hypochondriac ([[Home, Part II]]).

Even Cottle's stony exterior gives way to the pain he sees on Laura Roslin's face when he gives her a new prognosis on her fight with cancer. Her cancer has spread aggressively, and the good doctor gives Roslin, on the outside, one month to live ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). His concern for Cylon Sharon Valerii and her unborn hybrid child is remarkable, especially in the face of the rest of the crew's distrust and even hatred of her, hinting at his extremely strict sense of medical ethics. He described her attempted rape by Lt. Thorne as "unforgivable," and voiced his opposition to Baltar using Sharon's baby's blood as a cure for Roslin's cancer ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]," "[[Epiphanies]]").

Cottle has gained a reputation among the fleet for performing abortions. When [[Rya Kibby]], a young Gemenese girl, wanted to end her pregnancy, she stowed away to get aboard ''Galactica'' and see Cottle. Cottle explained the situation to Admiral Adama by acknowledging, "I get a note that a girl's on the way. She arrives. I do my work. And then she leaves. I don't ask a lot of questions." When Admiral Adama asked Rya to return to her parents, Cottle suggested that the girl instead request political asylum aboard ''Galactica'', earning a stare from Adama. ("[[The Captain's Hand]]")

Cottle's outspokenness could be attributed to the fact that, as one of the few remaining doctors left in the Fleet, he is far too important to the Fleet to penalize for acts of insubordination that anyone else would be punished for. It's also possible that Dr. Cottle's personality is a result of the stresses of the Cylon holocaust. Given his advanced age, Cottle was likely on the verge of retirement when he was forced to spend his twilight years in space, trying desperately to meet a far-too-high level of demand for his services.

After the election of President [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] and the settlement of [[New Caprica]] Cottle, like most of ''Galactica'''s crew, retires from military duty. One year after the election he is still serving as a doctor on New Caprica in private practice ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

== Notes ==

*Cottle's counterpart in the [[TOS|Original Series]] is [[Salik]].
*In accordance with [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron D. Moore]]'s [[naturalistic science fiction]] principles used to form the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined series]], unlike [[MemoryAlpha:Leonard McCoy|another popular medical officer]] in television science fiction, Cottle's personality is grumpy, callous, and rude.
*In the DVD commentary for "[[Act of Contrition]]", RDM states that actor Donnelly Rhodes was one of the three finalists up for the role of Col. [[Saul Tigh]], though in the end the part was given to one of the other finalists, [[Michael Hogan]].
*Doctor Cottle is named after Michael Rymer's childhood pediatrician, who was actually a very nice person unlike his fictional counterpart.

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Sherman Cottle

2006-05-31T20:48:09Z

Rafale: /* Biography */ link update

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:bsg-cottle-1.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= Unknown
|birthname= ? Cottle
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Physician on New Caprica, former Chief Medical Officer, ''[[Battlestar]] [[Galactica]]''
|rank= Major
|actor= [[Donnelly Rhodes]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

'''Doctor Cottle''' is [[Galactica type battlestar|Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'s'' irascible Chief Medical Officer ([[CMO]]). Because the ship is operating with a minimal crew compliment leading up to its expected decommissioning, Cottle is the only real physician/surgeon aboard ''Galactica'' (perhaps in the entire [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]), supported by a handful of medics such as [[Layne Ishay]] and [[Howard Kim]]. Cottle is somewhat eccentric -- a heavy smoker, despite knowing the risks, and one not overly impressed by positions of power. He is, above all things, a healer- to him nothing else really matters, be it rank, riches, or species.

== Biography ==

Cottle is the third person in the Fleet to learn about President [[Laura Roslin]]'s fight with cancer ([[Act of Contrition]]), after [[Lee Adama]] ([[Bastille Day]]) and [[Billy Keikeya]] ([[Miniseries]]). He agrees to treat her condition, without revealing it to anyone else, and further agrees to support more unorthodox treatments such as [[Chamalla]] extract. Knowing the extent of her illness and Roslin's reluctance to undergo [[diloxin]] therapy, the doctor also recommends prayer.

Cottle takes a personal interest in [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck's]] recovery after she breaks her leg during a mission ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]). The doctor works with Lee Adama to get her out of sickbay ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]) without initial success.

Grumpy of attitude, yet always professional, Cottle instantly inspires trust, despite his attitude.

After the assassination attempt on [[William Adama]], ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]) Cottle is unavailable to stabilize the Commander as he is aboard another ship in the Fleet. Matters worsen after ''Galactica'''s jump to the [[Emergency_JumpCoordinates| emergency coordinatesp]] separates Cottle and the battlestar. [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] orders Cottle's medics to stop Adama's internal bleeding ([[Scattered]]). However, while the medics stabilize the Commander's condition, they are unable to fully stop his bleeding. Cottle finally arrives and is able to operate on Commander Adama. After much risky work, the doctor saves Adama's life ([[Fragged]]).

Cottle speaks rather contemptuously of Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]'s authority. When Tigh asks of Adama's condition as Cottle begins surgery to save the Commander's life, he tells the XO, "How should I know? I'm not a psychic. Now get the hell out of here" ([[Fragged]]). Later, after Tigh orders an ill-advised attempt to restore supply runs to ''Galactica'' on the ''[[Gideon]]'', resulting in four civilian deaths, Cottle is anything but sympathetic when Tigh asks what happened: "What'd you expect, genius? You put a pilot in charge of crowd control" ([[Resistance]]).

At the request of President Roslin, despite her straight-to-the-point warning about its illegality and danger (Cottle: "You're a lousy salesman."), he assists Roslin in escaping ''Galactica'' by filing a request for a [[Raptor]] flight away from the battlestar, to care for patients on other ships. Roslin leaves ''Galactica'' on this "appropriated" Raptor with [[Lee Adama]] at the helm ([[Resistance]]).

Major Cottle performs a series of medical scans on [[Gaius Baltar]]'s head at Baltar's request. Unknown to Cottle, Baltar is looking to see if there is a Cylon computer chip implanted into his brain. The scans show absolutely nothing unusual, and Cottle dismisses Baltar as a hypochondriac ([[Home, Part II]]).

Even Cottle's stony exterior gives way to the pain he sees on Laura Roslin's face when he gives her a new prognosis on her fight with cancer. Her cancer has spread aggressively, and the good doctor gives Roslin, on the outside, one month to live ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]). His concern for Cylon Sharon Valerii and her unborn hybrid child is remarkable, especially in the face of the rest of the crew's distrust and even hatred of her, hinting at his extremely strict sense of medical ethics. He described her attempted rape by Lt. Thorne as "unforgivable," and voiced his opposition to Baltar using Sharon's baby's blood as a cure for Roslin's cancer ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]," "[[Epiphanies]]").

Cottle has gained a reputation among the fleet for performing abortions. When [[Rya Kibby]], a young Gemenese girl, wanted to end her pregnancy, she stowed away to get aboard ''Galactica'' and see Cottle. Cottle explained the situation to Admiral Adama by acknowledging, "I get a note that a girl's on the way. She arrives. I do my work. And then she leaves. I don't ask a lot of questions." When Admiral Adama asked Rya to return to her parents, Cottle suggested that the girl instead request political asylum aboard ''Galactica'', earning a stare from Adama. ("[[The Captain's Hand]]")

Cottle's outspokenness could be attributed to the fact that, as one of the few remaining doctors left in the Fleet, he is far too important to the Fleet to penalize for acts of insubordination that anyone else would be punished for. It's also possible that Dr. Cottle's personality is a result of the stresses of the Cylon holocaust. Given his advanced age, Cottle was likely on the verge of retirement when he was forced to spend his twilight years in space, trying desperately to meet a far-too-high level of demand for his services.

After the election of President [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] and the settlement of [[New Caprica]] Cottle, like most of ''Galactica'''s crew, retires from military duty. One year after the election he is still serving as a doctor on New Caprica in private practice ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

== Notes ==

*Cottle's counterpart in the [[TOS|Original Series]] is [[Salik]].
*In accordance with [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron D. Moore]]'s [[naturalistic science fiction]] principles used to form the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined series]], unlike [[MemoryAlpha:Leonard McCoy|another popular medical officer]] in television science fiction, Cottle's personality is grumpy, callous, and rude.
*In the DVD commentary for "[[Act of Contrition]]", RDM states that actor Donnelly Rhodes was one of the three finalists up for the role of Col. [[Saul Tigh]], though in the end the part was given to one of the other finalists, [[Michael Hogan]].
*Doctor Cottle is named after Michael Rymer's childhood pediatrician, who was actually a very nice person unlike his fictional counterpart.

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Characters]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Emergency jump coordinates

2006-05-31T20:45:28Z

Rafale: /* Sources */ yeah, colonial wireless alphabet makes sense

'''Emergency Jump Coordinates'''; also "Emergency Standby Coordinates", "Escape Coordinates" or simply "emergency coordinates"; are part of standard [[Colonial Fleet]] fleet maneuver doctrine. They are being referred to by the letters of the [[Colonial wireless alphabet]], namely as "Alpha"{{ref|EJC1}}, "Bravo", "Constellation" and so on. This indicates that multiple sets of Emergency Jump Coordinates can exist simultaneously, to be used in different contingencies or as part of a larger battle plan. They are distributed by the flagship among a group of ships. Emergency Jump Coordinates provide that there are known and predefined rallying points for multiple contingencies in case of emergencies.

The authority to order a jump to the escape coordinates rest with the fleet´s [[Actual|Principal officer in command]].

Their calculation and distribution are a part of routine day-to-day operations and fall within the responsibility of the [[Tactical Officer]], in the case of [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']], Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]. They are updated on every watch with new starfixes to compensate for inertial drift and then distributed to [[The Fleet (RDM)|the fleet]]. {{ref|EJC2}}

==Appearances in the Re-imagined Series==

Emergency Jump Coordinates were not explicitly mentioned in "[[33]]". The reasons for this may be that the collective jump of the fleet into safety had become "routine" rather than an emergency procedure.

In "[[Scattered]]" [[Saul_Tigh|Col. Tigh]] orders an immediate jump to the emergency coordinates. When ''Galactica'' finds herself isolated from the rest of the fleet, Tigh states that while ''Galactica'' did update her jump coordinates with the change of watch, Lt. Gaeta failed to transmit the new sets of coordinates to the rest of the fleet.

==Sources==

{{note|EJC1}} When Tigh orders the jump in "Scattered", [[Anastasia Dualla|Dee]] mentions "Emergency Coordinates Alpha". Given that it is real-life practice of differentiating between multiple versions of the same thing by adding CWA or latin letters or numbers, it seems logical to assume that doctrine provides for the existence of more than one set.

{{note|EJC2}} This is mentioned by Col. Tigh to his wife, [[Ellen Tigh|Ellen]] in "Scattered".

Emergency jump coordinates

2006-05-31T20:33:11Z

Rafale: /* Sources */

Emergency Jump Coordinates; also „Emergency Standby Coordinates“, „Escape Coordinates“ or simply „emergency coordinates“; are part of standard [[Colonial_Fleet|Colonial Fleet]] fleet maneuver doctrine. They are being referred to by the letters of the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet| Greek Alphabet]], namely as „Alpha“{{ref|EJC1}}, „Beta“, „Gamma“ and so on. This indicates that multiple sets of Emergency Jump Coordinates can exist simultaneously, to be used in different contingencies or as part of a larger battle plan. They are distributed by the flagship among a group of ships. Emergency Jump Coordinates provide that there are known and predefined rallying points for multiple contingencies in case of emergencies.

The authority to order a jump to the escape coordinates rest with the fleet´s [[Actual|Principal officer in command]].

Their calculation and distribution are a part of routine day-to-day operations and fall within the responsibility of the [[Tactical_Officer|Tactical Officer]], in the case of Galactica, [[Felix_Gaeta|Lt. Felix Gaeta]]. They are updated on every watch with new starfixes to compensate for inertial drift and then distributed to the fleet. {{ref|EJC2}}

==Appearances in the Re-imagined Series==

Emergency Jump Coordinates were not explicitly mentioned in [[33|33]]. The reasons for this may be that the collective jump of the fleet into safety had become „routine“ rather than an emergency procedure.

In [[Scattered|Scattered]] [[Saul_Tigh|Col. Tigh]] orders an immediate jump to the emergency coordinates. When Galactica finds herself isolated from the rest of the fleet, Tigh states that while Galactica did update her jump coordinates with the change of watch, Lt. Gaeta failed to transmit the new sets of coordinates to the rest of the fleet.

==Sources==

{{note|EJC1}} When Tigh orders the jump in "Scattered", Dee mentions "Emergency Coordinates Alpha". Given that it is real-life practice of differentiating between multiple versions of the same thing by adding greek or latin letters or numbers, it seems logical to assume that doctrine provides for the existence of more than one set. How an item of greek language and therefore Earth culture could might pop-up in colonial speech is anyone´s guess, though.

{{note|EJC2}} This is mentioned by Col. Tigh to his wife, [[Ellen_Tigh|Ellen]] in "Scattered".

User talk:Spencerian

2006-05-31T20:29:15Z

Rafale: /* New Article: Emergency Jump Coordinates */

User talk:Spencerian

2006-05-31T20:26:13Z

Rafale: New Article: Emergency Jump Coordinates

Emergency jump coordinates

2006-05-31T20:24:29Z

Rafale: /* Sources */ yet another syntax frekup

Emergency jump coordinates

2006-05-31T20:24:00Z

Rafale: Added some references

Emergency jump coordinates

2006-05-31T20:16:48Z

Rafale:

Emergency Jump Coordinates; also „Emergency Standby Coordinates“, „Escape Coordinates“ or simply „emergency coordinates“; are part of standard [[Colonial_Fleet|Colonial Fleet]] fleet maneuver doctrine. They are being referred to by the letters of the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet| Greek Alphabet]], namely as „Alpha“, „Beta“, „Gamma“ and so on. This indicates that multiple sets of Emergency Jump Coordinates can exist simultaneously, to be used in different contingencies or as part of a larger battle plan. They are distributed by the flagship among a group of ships. Emergency Jump Coordinates provide that there are known and predefined rallying points for multiple contingencies in case of emergencies.

The authority to order a jump to the escape coordinates rest with the fleet´s [[Actual|Principal officer in command]].

Their calculation and distribution are a part of routine day-to-day operations and fall within the responsibility of the [[Tactical_Officer|Tactical Officer]], in the case of Galactica, [[Felix_Gaeta|Lt. Felix Gaeta]]. They are updated on every watch with new starfixes to compensate for inertial drift and then distributed to the fleet.

==Appearances in the Re-imagined Series==

Emergency Jump Coordinates were not explicitly mentioned in [[33|33]]. The reasons for this may be that the collective jump of the fleet into safety had become „routine“ rather than an emergency procedure.

In [[Scattered|Scattered]] [[Saul_Tigh|Col. Tigh]] orders an immediate jump to the emergency coordinates. When Galactica finds herself isolated from the rest of the fleet, Tigh states that while Galactica did update her jump coordinates with the change of watch, Lt. Gaeta failed to transmit the new sets of coordinates to the rest of the fleet.

Emergency jump coordinates

2006-05-31T20:15:26Z

Rafale:

Emergency Jump Coordinates; also „Emergency Standby Coordinates“, „Escape Coordinates“ or simply „emergency coordinates“; are part of standard [[Colonial_Fleet|Colonial Fleet]] fleet maneuver doctrine. They are being referred to by the letters of the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet|Greek Alphabet]], namely as „Alpha“, „Beta“, „Gamma“ and so on. This indicates that multiple sets of Emergency Jump Coordinates can exist simultaneously, to be used in different contingencies or as part of a larger battle plan. They are distributed by the flagship among a group of ships. Emergency Jump Coordinates provide that there are known and predefined rallying points for multiple contingencies in case of emergencies.

The authority to order a jump to the escape coordinates rest with the fleet´s [[Actual|Principal officer in command]].

Their calculation and distribution are a part of routine day-to-day operations and fall within the responsibility of the [[Tactical_Officer|Tactical Officer]], in the case of Galactica, [[Felix_Gaeta|Lt. Felix Gaeta]]. They are updated on every watch with new starfixes to compensate for inertial drift and then distributed to the fleet.

==Appearances in the Re-imagined Series==

Emergency Jump Coordinates were not explicitly mentioned in [[33|33]]. The reasons for this may be that the collective jump of the fleet into safety had become „routine“ rather than an emergency procedure.

In [[Scattered|Scattered]] [[Saul_Tigh|Col. Tigh]] orders an immediate jump to the emergency coordinates. When Galactica finds herself isolated from the rest of the fleet, Tigh states that while Galactica did update her jump coordinates with the change of watch, Lt. Gaeta failed to transmit the new sets of coordinates to the rest of the fleet.

Emergency jump coordinates

2006-05-31T20:14:32Z

Rafale: now what´s the freckup this time?

Emergency Jump Coordinates; also „Emergency Standby Coordinates“, „Escape Coordinates“ or simply „emergency coordinates“; are part of standard [[Colonial Fleet|Colonial_Fleet]] fleet maneuver doctrine. They are being referred to by the letters of the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet|Greek Alphabet ]], namely as „Alpha“, „Beta“, „Gamma“ and so on. This indicates that multiple sets of Emergency Jump Coordinates can exist simultaneously, to be used in different contingencies or as part of a larger battle plan. They are distributed by the flagship among a group of ships. Emergency Jump Coordinates provide that there are known and predefined rallying points for multiple contingencies in case of emergencies.

The authority to order a jump to the escape coordinates rest with the fleet´s [[Actual|Principal officer in command]].

Their calculation and distribution are a part of routine day-to-day operations and fall within the responsibility of the [[Tactical_Officer|Tactical Officer]], in the case of Galactica, [[Felix_Gaeta|Lt. Felix Gaeta]]. They are updated on every watch with new starfixes to compensate for inertial drift and then distributed to the fleet.

==Appearances in the Re-imagined Series==

Emergency Jump Coordinates were not explicitly mentioned in [[33|33]]. The reasons for this may be that the collective jump of the fleet into safety had become „routine“ rather than an emergency procedure.

In [[Scattered|Scattered]] [[Saul_Tigh|Col. Tigh]] orders an immediate jump to the emergency coordinates. When Galactica finds herself isolated from the rest of the fleet, Tigh states that while Galactica did update her jump coordinates with the change of watch, Lt. Gaeta failed to transmit the new sets of coordinates to the rest of the fleet.

Emergency jump coordinates

2006-05-31T20:13:35Z

Rafale: final cleanup

Emergency Jump Coordinates; also „Emergency Standby Coordinates“, „Escape Coordinates“ or simply „emergency coordinates“; are part of standard [[Colonial_Fleet|Colonial Fleet]] fleet maneuver doctrine. They are being referred to by the letters of the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet|Greek Alphabet ]], namely as „Alpha“, „Beta“, „Gamma“ and so on. This indicates that multiple sets of Emergency Jump Coordinates can exist simultaneously, to be used in different contingencies or as part of a larger battle plan. They are distributed by the flagship among a group of ships. Emergency Jump Coordinates provide that there are known and predefined rallying points for multiple contingencies in case of emergencies.

The authority to order a jump to the escape coordinates rest with the fleet´s [[Principal officer in command|Actual]].

Their calculation and distribution are a part of routine day-to-day operations and fall within the responsibility of the [[Tactical_Officer|Tactical Officer]], in the case of Galactica, [[Felix_Gaeta|Lt. Felix Gaeta]]. They are updated on every watch with new starfixes to compensate for inertial drift and then distributed to the fleet.

==Appearances in the Re-imagined Series==

Emergency Jump Coordinates were not explicitly mentioned in [[33|33]]. The reasons for this may be that the collective jump of the fleet into safety had become „routine“ rather than an emergency procedure.

In [[Scattered|Scattered]] [[Saul_Tigh|Col. Tigh]] orders an immediate jump to the emergency coordinates. When Galactica finds herself isolated from the rest of the fleet, Tigh states that while Galactica did update her jump coordinates with the change of watch, Lt. Gaeta failed to transmit the new sets of coordinates to the rest of the fleet.

Emergency jump coordinates

2006-05-31T20:12:53Z

Rafale: Whoops, got the link syntax wrong

Emergency Jump Coordinates; also „Emergency Standby Coordinates“, „Escape Coordinates“ or simply „emergency coordinates“; are part of standard [[Colonial Fleet|Colonial Fleet]] fleet maneuver doctrine. They are being referred to by the letters of the [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet|Greek Alphabet ]], namely as „Alpha“, „Beta“, „Gamma“ and so on. This indicates that multiple sets of Emergency Jump Coordinates can exist simultaneously, to be used in different contingencies or as part of a larger battle plan. They are distributed by the flagship among a group of ships. Emergency Jump Coordinates provide that there are known and predefined rallying points for multiple contingencies in case of emergencies.

The authority to order a jump to the escape coordinates rest with the fleet´s [[Principal officer in command|Actual]].

Their calculation and distribution are a part of routine day-to-day operations and fall within the responsibility of the [[Tactical Officer|Tactical Officer]], in the case of Galactica, [[Felix Gaeta|Lt. Felix Gaeta]]. They are updated on every watch with new starfixes to compensate for inertial drift and then distributed to the fleet.

==Appearances in the Re-imagined Series==

Emergency Jump Coordinates were not explicitly mentioned in [[33|33]]. The reasons for this may be that the collective jump of the fleet into safety had become „routine“ rather than an emergency procedure.

In [[Scattered|Scattered]] [[Saul Tigh|Col. Tigh]] orders an immediate jump to the emergency coordinates. When Galactica finds herself isolated from the rest of the fleet, Tigh states that while Galactica did update her jump coordinates with the change of watch, Lt. Gaeta failed to transmit the new sets of coordinates to the rest of the fleet.

Emergency jump coordinates

2006-05-31T20:10:40Z

Rafale:

Emergency Jump Coordinates; also „Emergency Standby Coordinates“, „Escape Coordinates“ or simply „emergency coordinates“; are part of standard [[Colonial Fleet|Colonial Fleet]] fleet maneuver doctrine. They are being referred to by the letters of the [[Greek Alphabet| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet]], namely as „Alpha“, „Beta“, „Gamma“ and so on. This indicates that multiple sets of Emergency Jump Coordinates can exist simultaneously, to be used in different contingencies or as part of a larger battle plan. They are distributed by the flagship among a group of ships. Emergency Jump Coordinates provide that there are known and predefined rallying points for multiple contingencies in case of emergencies.

The authority to order a jump to the escape coordinates rest with the fleet´s [[Principal officer in command|Actual]].

Their calculation and distribution are a part of routine day-to-day operations and fall within the responsibility of the [[Tactical Officer|Tactical Officer]], in the case of Galactica, [[Lt. Felix Gaeta|Felix Gaeta]]. They are updated on every watch with new starfixes to compensate for inertial drift and then distributed to the fleet.

==Appearances in the Re-imagined Series==

Emergency Jump Coordinates were not explicitly mentioned in [[33|33]]. The reasons for this may be that the collective jump of the fleet into safety had become „routine“ rather than an emergency procedure.

In [[Scattered|Scattered]] [[Col. Tigh|Saul Tigh]] orders an immediate jump to the emergency coordinates. When Galactica finds herself isolated from the rest of the fleet, Tigh states that while Galactica did update her jump coordinates with the change of watch, Lt. Gaeta failed to transmit the new sets of coordinates to the rest of the fleet.

Emergency jump coordinates

2006-05-31T20:08:49Z

Rafale:

Emergency Jump Coordinates; also „Emergency Standby Coordinates“, „Escape Coordinates“ or simply „emergency coordinates“; are part of standard [Colonial Fleet Colonial Fleet] fleet maneuver doctrine. They are being referred to by the letters of the [Greek Alphabet  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet], namely as „Alpha“, „Beta“, „Gamma“ and so on. This indicates that multiple sets of Emergency Jump Coordinates can exist simultaneously, to be used in different contingencies or as part of a larger battle plan. They are distributed by the flagship among a group of ships. Emergency Jump Coordinates provide that there are known and predefined rallying points for multiple contingencies in case of emergencies.

The authority to order a jump to the escape coordinates rest with the fleet´s [Principal officer in command Actual].

Their calculation and distribution are a part of routine day-to-day operations and fall within the responsibility of the [Tactical Officer  Tactical Officer], in the case of Galactica, [Lt. Felix Gaeta Felix Gaeta]. They are updated on every watch with new starfixes to compensate for inertial drift and then distributed to the fleet.

== Appearances in the Re-imagined Series==

Emergency Jump Coordinates were not explicitly mentioned in [33 33]. The reasons for this may be that the collective jump of the fleet into safety had become „routine“ rather than an emergency procedure.

In [Scattered Scattered] [Col. Tigh Saul Tigh] orders an immediate jump to the emergency coordinates. When Galactica finds herself isolated from the rest of the fleet, Tigh states that while Galactica did update her jump coordinates with the change of watch, Lt. Gaeta failed to transmit the new sets of coordinates to the rest of the fleet.