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The Last Supper

2008-12-02T17:09:40Z

Noindiecred: /* Updates to Image */

[[Image:Battlestar Galactica Last Supper.jpg|thumb|right|300px|The Last Supper being depicted using [[Portal:Characters|characters]] from ''Battlestar Galactica''.]]

'''"The Last Supper"''' is the unofficial name of a promotional picture concocted by the [[SciFi Channel]] to promote the [[Re-imagined Series]]. It is one of the first promotional photos from the [[Season 4 (2008)|fourth season]] to be released to the general public, first making print in ''[[w:Entertainment Weekly|Entertainment Weekly]]'' with brief comments by series producer [[Ron Moore]]. It deliberately mirrors [[w:The Last Supper (Leonardo)|Leonardo's famous painting]].

== The "Clues" ==

Attached to the photo were comments from Moore, who provided descriptions of each character's pose and position in the picture, while claiming that each pose is significant and holds insights into upcoming events of Season 4. From left to right:

*President [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] lights a fire: "She's burning something of importance that has to do with a plot turn midseason."

*[[Natalie]] stands in commanding pose: "She assumes a leadership position for a group of Cylons [that have] a separate agenda from the rest of them."

*[[Saul Tigh]], missing eye turned towards the camera: "You might literally take that composition in terms of Tigh turning a blind eye."

*The [[Final Five|empty space at the table]]: "We have not yet revealed the final [unknown] Cylon." Does that mean the people already at the table ''aren't'' the final Cylon? Moore laughs. "You ferreted that out pretty slyly. I didn't really want to give that away."

*[[Lee Adama]] in civilian clothes: "He does not return to flight status."

*[[Gaius Baltar]] looks up to his [[Virtual Six]], who stands in the center of the picture: "Baltar's Six has proclaimed that she is delivering the gospel of the [Cylons'] [[God (RDM)|one true God]], so it seems natural to place her at the center of the photo.

*[[Kara Thrace]] and [[Samuel Anders]] in a sensual embrace: "[Note] that the only one embracing Starbuck is Anders."

*[[Galen Tyrol]], knife in hand, glares angrily: "The Chief does not have a pleasant time of it this season." His child with fellow grunt Cally would seem to be the second human-Cylon hybrid, and hints Moore, "one should consider the knife in his hand in that context."

*[[Sharon Agathon|Sharon]] and [[Karl Agathon]] cast a worried glance across the table: "The person they're looking at is definitely reacting."

*Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] sits on the end of the table, as far as possible from President Roslin: "They're also turned toward each other."

== Dismissal ==

In light of massive fan speculation, [[Aaron Douglas]] (Tyrol) publicly dismissed the importance of the photo via his LiveJournal.

According to Douglas, Ron Moore was not present at the photo shoot, which was part of SciFi Channel's promotional material production phase. The actors were given general directions by the photographer and SciFi Channel staff, but interpreted their characters as they saw fit. This indicates that the photograph was created for marketing purposes, as multiple different versions of the shot were produced. It was likely meant to fuel speculation, and thus there is probably no deep meaning behind its composition. Douglas added that neither he nor any of the cast believe there is any significance to the photo. He further notes that none of the fan speculation based on the photo matches the story lines or events in the 13 hours<ref>This number includes the two-hour "[[Razor]]" television movie.</ref> that were filmed.<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://community.livejournal.com/aarondouglas/56259.html|title=The Chief's Deck: Last Supper and the Truth|date=10 January 2008|accessdate=25 January 2008|last=Douglas|first=Aaron|format=|language=}}</ref>

Further, attempts to analyze the photo have been met with incredulity from [[Katee Sackhoff]], who said: "It's interesting that everyone thinks there is something hidden in that Last Supper photo, like if you look hard enough, you can find a hidden message in it. To be honest, I think we [the cast] would have had to be in on it to create a hidden message, and we were all just there having a photo shoot."<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/critics/blog/2008/03/a_da_vinci_code_for_battlestar.html|title=BaltimoreSun.com - Critical Mass - A Da Vinci Code for 'Battlestar Galactica'?|date=28 March 2008|accessdate=2 April 2008|last=Swift|first=Tim|format=|language=}}</ref>

== Defense ==

In light of the aforementioned comments, Ron Moore and Co-Executive Producer [[David Weddle]] came to the photo's defense.

From an 2 April 2008 interview that Maureen Ryan had with Moore:

: '''Maureen Ryan''': You have to know that the EW “Last Supper” photo of the Season 4 cast has been analyzed to death.

: '''RDM:''' I know. As soon as they said that’s what they wanted to do, I said, “Oh, that’s genius.” I was on the phone, “Let’s put him here, her here,” I spun out all these things. It was a lot of fun.

: '''MR:''' That was one question I had – you were the maestro orchestrating where people were and what they were doing, right? Everything in the photo is intentional, right?

: '''RDM:''' Mostly. I wasn’t on the set. They pitched me the idea on the phone, and asked if I had any ideas of what to do. I said, OK, yeah, let’s do this. I spun out the basic format and I think they embroidered a little on that when they were on the set.

: '''MR:''' Are there significant new characters this season?

: '''RDM:''' Nothing that comes to mind. [Mo here: Hmmm. But according to the EW “Last Supper” photo, there’s a new No. 6 model called Natalie. She assumes a leadership role for a group of Cylons with “a separate agenda,” Moore told the magazine.]

: '''MR:''' Just so I understand what I think you told EW for the story that went with the photo, none of the people in that photo is the final Cylon, right?

: '''RDM:''' Yeah. I said that. I probably shouldn’t have said that [laughs] but I have said that. So, yeah [that is the case, the final Cylon is not any of the people in the photo].<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/04/ron-moore-on-ba.html|title='Battlestar Galactica's' fourth season, the strike, and directing in space: The scoop from Ron Moore|date=2 April 2008|accessdate=2 April 2008|last=Ryan|first=Maureen|format=|language=}}</ref>

A further exchange with Maureen Ryan had her confirm that the text in brackets above was written by her, to summarize her view of what Moore was saying. However, she wrote Moore to confirm it, and he OKed her release of the following statement: ""Ron Moore confirmed to me that the final Cylon is not any of the people in the Last Supper photo."<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://ideas.4brad.com/battlestar/ron-moore-confirms-final-cylon-not-last-supper-photo|title='Ron Moore confirms final Cylon not in Last Supper photo'|date=21 June 2008}}</ref>

Additionally, a recent interview, Weddle added that: "You already know the answer to these questions [on who the "Last Cylon" is, the nature of Kara Thrace, etc.]. It's all right there [in the show]. Just examine every episode closely and the truth will emerge. Or break out a magnifying glass and go over that Last Supper photo one more time. Ron Moore laid it all out for you."<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.syfyportal.com/pagetogether.php?id=4887&page=4|title=SyFy Portal: 'Battlestar Galactica' Plan Subject To Change|date=2 April 2008|accessdate=2 April 2008|last=Hinman|first=Michael|format=|language=}}</ref>

== Updates to Image ==

After the initial posting, minor changes have begun to appear.
*The glass of water in front of [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] was half full. It switched at least by early May to a full glass.
*The flaming chalice in front of [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] disappeared in early May. Roslin, though, still holds the lit match.<ref>SciFi Forums. http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2307515&st=0. 10 May 2008 (accessed 30 May 2008).</ref>
*[[Virtual Six]]'s position has moved to the right slightly. There is no longer an overlap between Virtual Six and [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]].<ref>"Crazy Battlestar Galactica movie, webisode, and Last Supper photo news." http://www.popcritics.com/2008/05/crazy-battlestar-galactica-movie-webisode-and-last-supper-photo-news/. 20 May 2008 (accessed 30 May 2008).</ref>
*Roslin has been completely removed from the image.<ref>You Will Know the Truth promo site. http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/index.php?pageid=70. 2 December 2008.</ref>

== Full Image ==
<div align="center">
[[Image:Battlestar Galactica Last Supper.jpg|640px|The Last Supper]]
</div>
== References ==

{{wikifrakr}}

<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Behind the Scenes]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Last Supper

2008-12-02T17:09:08Z

Noindiecred: /* Updates to Image */ Added latest change.

[[Image:Battlestar Galactica Last Supper.jpg|thumb|right|300px|The Last Supper being depicted using [[Portal:Characters|characters]] from ''Battlestar Galactica''.]]

'''"The Last Supper"''' is the unofficial name of a promotional picture concocted by the [[SciFi Channel]] to promote the [[Re-imagined Series]]. It is one of the first promotional photos from the [[Season 4 (2008)|fourth season]] to be released to the general public, first making print in ''[[w:Entertainment Weekly|Entertainment Weekly]]'' with brief comments by series producer [[Ron Moore]]. It deliberately mirrors [[w:The Last Supper (Leonardo)|Leonardo's famous painting]].

== The "Clues" ==

Attached to the photo were comments from Moore, who provided descriptions of each character's pose and position in the picture, while claiming that each pose is significant and holds insights into upcoming events of Season 4. From left to right:

*President [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] lights a fire: "She's burning something of importance that has to do with a plot turn midseason."

*[[Natalie]] stands in commanding pose: "She assumes a leadership position for a group of Cylons [that have] a separate agenda from the rest of them."

*[[Saul Tigh]], missing eye turned towards the camera: "You might literally take that composition in terms of Tigh turning a blind eye."

*The [[Final Five|empty space at the table]]: "We have not yet revealed the final [unknown] Cylon." Does that mean the people already at the table ''aren't'' the final Cylon? Moore laughs. "You ferreted that out pretty slyly. I didn't really want to give that away."

*[[Lee Adama]] in civilian clothes: "He does not return to flight status."

*[[Gaius Baltar]] looks up to his [[Virtual Six]], who stands in the center of the picture: "Baltar's Six has proclaimed that she is delivering the gospel of the [Cylons'] [[God (RDM)|one true God]], so it seems natural to place her at the center of the photo.

*[[Kara Thrace]] and [[Samuel Anders]] in a sensual embrace: "[Note] that the only one embracing Starbuck is Anders."

*[[Galen Tyrol]], knife in hand, glares angrily: "The Chief does not have a pleasant time of it this season." His child with fellow grunt Cally would seem to be the second human-Cylon hybrid, and hints Moore, "one should consider the knife in his hand in that context."

*[[Sharon Agathon|Sharon]] and [[Karl Agathon]] cast a worried glance across the table: "The person they're looking at is definitely reacting."

*Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] sits on the end of the table, as far as possible from President Roslin: "They're also turned toward each other."

== Dismissal ==

In light of massive fan speculation, [[Aaron Douglas]] (Tyrol) publicly dismissed the importance of the photo via his LiveJournal.

According to Douglas, Ron Moore was not present at the photo shoot, which was part of SciFi Channel's promotional material production phase. The actors were given general directions by the photographer and SciFi Channel staff, but interpreted their characters as they saw fit. This indicates that the photograph was created for marketing purposes, as multiple different versions of the shot were produced. It was likely meant to fuel speculation, and thus there is probably no deep meaning behind its composition. Douglas added that neither he nor any of the cast believe there is any significance to the photo. He further notes that none of the fan speculation based on the photo matches the story lines or events in the 13 hours<ref>This number includes the two-hour "[[Razor]]" television movie.</ref> that were filmed.<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://community.livejournal.com/aarondouglas/56259.html|title=The Chief's Deck: Last Supper and the Truth|date=10 January 2008|accessdate=25 January 2008|last=Douglas|first=Aaron|format=|language=}}</ref>

Further, attempts to analyze the photo have been met with incredulity from [[Katee Sackhoff]], who said: "It's interesting that everyone thinks there is something hidden in that Last Supper photo, like if you look hard enough, you can find a hidden message in it. To be honest, I think we [the cast] would have had to be in on it to create a hidden message, and we were all just there having a photo shoot."<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/critics/blog/2008/03/a_da_vinci_code_for_battlestar.html|title=BaltimoreSun.com - Critical Mass - A Da Vinci Code for 'Battlestar Galactica'?|date=28 March 2008|accessdate=2 April 2008|last=Swift|first=Tim|format=|language=}}</ref>

== Defense ==

In light of the aforementioned comments, Ron Moore and Co-Executive Producer [[David Weddle]] came to the photo's defense.

From an 2 April 2008 interview that Maureen Ryan had with Moore:

: '''Maureen Ryan''': You have to know that the EW “Last Supper” photo of the Season 4 cast has been analyzed to death.

: '''RDM:''' I know. As soon as they said that’s what they wanted to do, I said, “Oh, that’s genius.” I was on the phone, “Let’s put him here, her here,” I spun out all these things. It was a lot of fun.

: '''MR:''' That was one question I had – you were the maestro orchestrating where people were and what they were doing, right? Everything in the photo is intentional, right?

: '''RDM:''' Mostly. I wasn’t on the set. They pitched me the idea on the phone, and asked if I had any ideas of what to do. I said, OK, yeah, let’s do this. I spun out the basic format and I think they embroidered a little on that when they were on the set.

: '''MR:''' Are there significant new characters this season?

: '''RDM:''' Nothing that comes to mind. [Mo here: Hmmm. But according to the EW “Last Supper” photo, there’s a new No. 6 model called Natalie. She assumes a leadership role for a group of Cylons with “a separate agenda,” Moore told the magazine.]

: '''MR:''' Just so I understand what I think you told EW for the story that went with the photo, none of the people in that photo is the final Cylon, right?

: '''RDM:''' Yeah. I said that. I probably shouldn’t have said that [laughs] but I have said that. So, yeah [that is the case, the final Cylon is not any of the people in the photo].<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/04/ron-moore-on-ba.html|title='Battlestar Galactica's' fourth season, the strike, and directing in space: The scoop from Ron Moore|date=2 April 2008|accessdate=2 April 2008|last=Ryan|first=Maureen|format=|language=}}</ref>

A further exchange with Maureen Ryan had her confirm that the text in brackets above was written by her, to summarize her view of what Moore was saying. However, she wrote Moore to confirm it, and he OKed her release of the following statement: ""Ron Moore confirmed to me that the final Cylon is not any of the people in the Last Supper photo."<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://ideas.4brad.com/battlestar/ron-moore-confirms-final-cylon-not-last-supper-photo|title='Ron Moore confirms final Cylon not in Last Supper photo'|date=21 June 2008}}</ref>

Additionally, a recent interview, Weddle added that: "You already know the answer to these questions [on who the "Last Cylon" is, the nature of Kara Thrace, etc.]. It's all right there [in the show]. Just examine every episode closely and the truth will emerge. Or break out a magnifying glass and go over that Last Supper photo one more time. Ron Moore laid it all out for you."<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.syfyportal.com/pagetogether.php?id=4887&page=4|title=SyFy Portal: 'Battlestar Galactica' Plan Subject To Change|date=2 April 2008|accessdate=2 April 2008|last=Hinman|first=Michael|format=|language=}}</ref>

== Updates to Image ==

After the initial posting, minor changes have begun to appear.
*The glass of water in front of [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] was half full. It switched at least by early May to a full glass.
*The flaming chalice in front of [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] disappeared in early May. Roslin, though, still holds the lit match.<ref>SciFi Forums. http://forums.scifi.com/index.php?showtopic=2307515&st=0. 10 May 2008 (accessed 30 May 2008).</ref>
*[[Virtual Six]]'s position has moved to the right slightly. There is no longer an overlap between Virtual Six and [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]].<ref>"Crazy Battlestar Galactica movie, webisode, and Last Supper photo news." http://www.popcritics.com/2008/05/crazy-battlestar-galactica-movie-webisode-and-last-supper-photo-news/. 20 May 2008 (accessed 30 May 2008).</ref>
*Roslin has been completely removed from the image.<ref>You Will Know the Truth promo site. http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/youwillknowthetruth/index.php?pageid=70. 2 Dec 2008.</ref>

== Full Image ==
<div align="center">
[[Image:Battlestar Galactica Last Supper.jpg|640px|The Last Supper]]
</div>
== References ==

{{wikifrakr}}

<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Behind the Scenes]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Sexuality in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)

2007-12-05T16:14:01Z

Noindiecred: /* Homosexuality */

{{POV Real}}

''For sexuality depicted in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]], see: [[Sexuality in Battlestar Galactica (TOS)]].''

'''Sexuality in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]''' mirrors sexuality in the real world, in terms of the presence of hetero-, homo- and bi-sexual relationships.

According to comments from [[Michael Taylor]], the Colonials do not make an emphasis "of the distinction between hetero- and homosexual preferences. I tend to think that in this respect, at least, they’re a bit more enlightened than we are."<ref name="thewatcher">{{cite_web|url=http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2007/11/answers-to-your.html|title=Answers to your 'Razor' questions and clues about 'Battlestar Galactica's' final season|date=16 November 2007|accessdate=16 November 2007|last=Ryan|first=Maureen|format=|language=}}</ref>

== Heterosexuality ==
Relationships depicted in the series tend to be overwhelmingly heterosexual in nature. Amongst these major heterosexual relationships are:

* Relationships resulting in marriage
** [[Saul Tigh]] and [[Ellen Tigh]]
** [[Kara Thrace]] and [[Samuel Anders]]
** [[William Adama]] and [[Carolanne Adama]] ([[Miniseries]], "[[A Day in the Life]]")
** [[Cally Tyrol|Cally Tyrol ''neé'' Henderson]] and [[Galen Tyrol]]
** [[Anastasia Dualla]] and [[Lee Adama]]
** [[Romo Lampkin]] and [[Romo Lampkin (wife of)|wife]] ("[[The Son Also Rises]]")
** [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Sharon Agathon]]
** [[Jurgen Belzen]] and wife

* Relationships between consensual, unmarried persons
** [[Sharon Valerii]] and Galen Tyrol
** [[Lee Adama]] and [[Kara Thrace]] ("[[Scar]]", "[[A Day in the Life]]")
** [[William Adama]] and [[Laura Roslin]] (implied, "[[A Day in the Life]]")
** [[Laura Roslin]] and [[Richard Adar]] ([[Epiphanies]])
** [[Tory Foster]] and Samuel Anders
** [[Billy Keikeya]] and Anastasia Dualla

* Sexual relationship between consensual adults while engaged in other sexual relationships
** [[Gaius Baltar]] and various female conquests such as [[Sherry Bennett]], [[Caprica Six]], [[Gina Inviere]], [[Number Three]], [[Kara Thrace]], [[Playa Palacios]], and an [[Unnamed characters (RDM)#Unnamed Lover|unidentified woman]] in the [[Miniseries]]. Baltar's ongoing relations with [[Virtual Six]] are difficult to define, but certainly involve a sexual aspect.
** Ellen Tigh and various men during her marriage to Saul Tigh ([[Miniseries]], "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", "[[Occupation]]", "[[Precipice]]")

== Homosexuality ==

While some fans have tried to identify [[Felix Gaeta]]'s orientation as being homosexual — notably with the [[Season 3 gag reel]] where [[Alessandro Juliani]] attempts to "hit" on a [[marine]] protecting [[James Callis]]' [[Gaius Baltar]] — homosexuality had not been formally introduced in the Colonial way of life prior to "[[Razor]]", with the revelation that [[Helena Cain]] and [[Gina Inviere]] were engaged in a lesbian relationship.

The revelation of the Cain-Inviere relationship does not seem to surprise ''Pegasus'' personnel seen in "Razor". [[Kendra Shaw]] is slightly shocked, but more due to the surprise that Cain was dependent on anyone. [[Jurgen Belzen]] and [[Jack Fisk]] do not seem to be at all fazed or uncomfortable with this relationship during the formal dinner after the [[Fall of the Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]]. Therefore, this is in keeping with writer Michael Taylor's comments that "the point about Cain’s and Gina’s relationship is that the fact that they had a same-sex relationship was no big deal".<ref name="thewatcher"/>

== Bisexuality ==

Bisexuality has not been seen until "[[Hero]]", with the culmination of a [[w:ménage à trois|ménage à trois]] between [[Caprica Six]], [[Number Three]], and [[Gaius Baltar]]. It is uncertain how this is viewed in Colonial society, but since it is apparent that the Cylons model their behavior after their human creators, it is more than likely that sexual acts involving multiple partners is derived from Colonials.

== Other notes ==

The religious controversy surrounding [[Rya Kibby]]'s abortion suggest that the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies|Colonial faith]] (or the [[Gemenon|Gemenese]] interpretation thereof) contains doctrine pertaining to sexuality, possibly in a similar fashion to many real world religions ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

The presence of [[w:child prostitution|child prostitution]] under [[Phelan]]'s [[black market (organization)|black market]] indicates the presence of sexual deviants within Colonial society. The practice of child prostitution is viewed with loathing disdain by Colonials such as Lee Adama, who ultimately kills Phelan after discovering this practice aboard ''[[Prometheus]]'' ([[Black Market]]).

Prostitution is engaged in Colonial society, with consenting adult women such as [[Shevon]] offering their services to adult men such as Lee Adama (Black Market).

In addition, the Colonials have pornographic material like ''[[Nymph]]'' ([[Scar]]), although it is uncertain whether or not pornography is viewed in the same controversial light as it is in [[w:United States of American|America]] and some other cultures.

== References ==

<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: Colonial Society]]
[[Category: Colonial Society (RDM)]]
[[Category: RDM]]

Season 4 (2008-09)

2007-11-14T19:03:48Z

Noindiecred: /* Notes */

{{spoiler}}

==Summary==
:''Presently set to air in the United States in "early April 2008"<ref name="latimes">{{cite_web|url=http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2007/10/battlestar-gala.html|title='Battlestar Galactica' news: The show will premiere in early April, Ron Moore will direct an episode|date=25 October 2007|accessdate=25 October 2007|last=Martin|first=Denise|format=|language=}}</ref>, this is the final season of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]], where the last of the [[Final Five]] are revealed.''

== Story ==

=== General ===

* A two hour television movie, called "[[Razor]]" set during the events of [[Season 2 (2005-06)|Season 2]] is slated to air on November 24, 2007. It has a framing story set after the destruction of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', but will be largely told via flashbacks to a time prior to "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]" during [[Helena Cain]]'s command.
* According to [[Katee Sackhoff]], the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] will find [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]] <ref name="ign-sackhoff"/>. Ron Moore also says, that Earth will be found and that there is a good chance of finding out in what state the planet is, but is being deliberately vague <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://craveonline.com/filmtv/articles/04648062/battlestar_galactica_ronald_moore_talks_about_earth.html|title=Battlestar Galactica: Ronald Moore talks about Earth|date=13 July 2007|accessdate=13 July 2007|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>.

=== Character developments ===

* [[Katee Sackhoff]] is signed for this season <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.tvweek.com/news/2007/03/qa_with_battlestar_showrunner.php|title=Q&A with "Battlestar" Showrunner Ron Moore: On the Return of Starbuck, Falling Ratings and 'Caprica' Prequel|date=26 March 2007|accessdate=18 June 2007|last=Hibberd|first=James|format=|language=}}</ref>. Additionally, Sackhoff herself mentions that her character is neither an illusion <ref name="ign-sackhoff">{{cite_web|url=http://tv.ign.com/articles/797/797776p1.html|title=Katee Sackhoff Talks Battlestar and Bionic Woman|date=19 June 2007|accessdate=21 June 2007|last=Goldman|first=Eric|format=|language=}}</ref> nor a Cylon.
* [[Mark Sheppard]] has said that he will reprise his role as [[Romo Lampkin]], but not for many episodes <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://community.livejournal.com/battlestar_blog/688838.html|title=Livejournal - Info from Mark Sheppard|date=|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>.
*[[Nana Visitor]], known to genre viewers as [[MemoryAlpha:Kira Nerys|Kira Nerys]] on ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: Deep Space Nine|Star Trek: Deep Space Nine]]'', will appear in at least one episode of ''Battlestar Galactica''. She is playing a cancer patient named Emily who meets Laura Roslin in ''Galactica'''s sickbay. The two bond and eventually discuss matters of morality and faith. All of Visitor's scenes are with Mary McDonnell <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2007/09/battlestar-ga-1.html|title='Battlestar Galactica' gets a Visitor|date=|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>.
*According to reports from ComicCon and a radio show, Lee Adama will grow a beard and do more civilian things, Chief Tyrol will shave his head, and Admiral Adama will fly a Viper <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.watchingbsg.com/hairy-spoilers-for-bsgs-fourth-season/|title=Hairy Spoilers for BSG’s Fourth Season|date=|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>.
*According to a Season 4 promo, [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] will return to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' and try to lead the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonials]] to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]], but she is said to be a Cylon and is not taken seriously.
* Moore indicated that he will make his directorial debut in the second half of this season.<ref name="latimes"/>

=== Cylon developments ===
* Moore indicated that the last of the [[Final Five]] will be revealed this season.<ref name="latimes"/>
* MediaBlvd Magazine reports that an early Season 4 episode will deal with a violent rebellion by [[Centurion]]s against their [[Humanoid Cylon|humanoid masters]], after some Centurions regain the intelligence that they lost through the enslavement by the humanoid models.<ref name="latimes"/><ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.mediablvd.com/magazine/Magazine-Home/mbnews7224329329.html|title=Battlestar Galactica: Secrets from the Set|date=26 March 2007|accessdate=4 July 2007|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>.
* [[Number Three]], played by [[Lucy Lawless]], will return for 2 or 3 episodes around episode 10, as revealed at [[w:Comic-Con International|ComicCon]] <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://tv.ign.com/articles/808/808978p1.html|title=SDCC 07: Battlestar Galactica Gets Lawless|date=|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>. In addition, she and [[Laura Roslin]] will have a face-to-face scene as "there is a lot more contact" between the Cylons and the humans.<ref name="lawless">{{cite_web|url=http://ifmagazine.com/feature.asp?article=2445|title=Lucy Lawless Teases iF Magazine About Her Return to ''Battlestar Galactica''|date=30 October 2007|accessdate=30 October 2007|last=Elliot|first=Sean|format=|language=}}</ref>

== Notes==
* Moore indicates that this season begins the "third act in the three-act structure where we're all moving towards the finale and the climax of all these different plot lines. In my head there's two chapters to go in the story and those can be of varying lengths." <ref name="mtv">{{cite_web|url=http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1556508/story.jhtml|title=MTV Movie News: 'Battlestar Galactica' Producer Talks Movie(s?), Possible Conclusion|date=6 April 2007|accessdate=8 April 2007|last=Jacks|first=Brian|format=|language=}}</ref>
* On Friday, June 1st 2007 the SciFi Channel issued a statement saying that Season 4 is going to be the final season. Ending the series with the upcoming 22-episode fourth season was a creative decision made by the show's executive producers [[Ronald D. Moore]] and [[David Eick]]. SciFi executive VP of original programming Mark Stern said the channel's brass "respect the producers' decision to end the series." <ref name="bsgending">{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=41709&type=0|title=SciFi Wire: Battlestar Ending Next Season|date=|accessdate=1 June 2007|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>
* According to the [[Soundtrack (Season 3)|press release for the third season soundtrack]] released by [[La-La Land Records]], the fourth season [[He That Believeth In Me|premiere]] was slated to air on Friday, January 11, 2008 on the US SciFi Channel. However, a spokesperson for the SciFi Channel issued a denial regarding the date to SyFy Portal's Michael Hinman, stating only that the show will premiere only in "early 2008" and that it was "not in January".<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.syfyportal.com/news424324.html|title=Still No Date Set For BSG Premiere|date=19 October 2007|accessdate=19 October 2007|last=Hinman|first=Michael|format=|language=}}</ref>
* Season 4 will officially not premiere earlier than April 2008. Furthermore, it is unclear if the season will be split into two halves of 10 episodes each with a hiatus in between. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.buddytv.com/articles/battlestar-galactica/battlestar-galactica-season-4-13102.aspx|title=Battlestar Galactica Season 4 Not Starting Until April 2008|date=14 November 2007|accessdate=14 November 2007|last=Papel|first=Simon|format=|language=}}
</ref>

==Cast==
===Stars===
* [[Edward James Olmos]] as [[William Adama]]
* [[Mary McDonnell]] as [[Laura Roslin]]
* [[Katee Sackhoff]] as [[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]]
* [[Jamie Bamber]] as [[Lee Adama|Lee "Apollo" Adama]]
* [[James Callis]] as [[Gaius Baltar|Gaius Baltar]]
* [[Tricia Helfer]] as [[Number Six]]
* [[Grace Park]] as [[Number Eight|Sharon Agathon/Number Eight]]

===Co-stars===


==Production Crew==
===Producers===
* [[Ronald D. Moore]] - Developer / Executive Producer / Writer
* [[David Eick]] - Executive Producer
* [[Toni Graphia]] - Co-Executive Producer / Writer
* [[Harvey Frand]] - Producer
* [[Glen A. Larson]] - Consulting Producer

===Directors & Writing Staff===
: ''To view the list of all the directors and staff, go to the [[Portal:Battlestar Galactica (RDM)/Crew#Directors|Battlestar Galactica Crew Guide]] page.''

==Episodes==
: ''To view the list of episodes, go to the [[Portal:Battlestar Galactica (RDM)/Episode Guide - Season 4 Guide|Battlestar Galactica Episode Guide]] page.''

== Official Statements ==
*[http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=40133 Official SciFi.com Release]
* ''[[Ronald D. Moore]] discusses planning the season:''
: It will be a serialized show to an extent. I think what we talked about with the network — because their concern is the drop-off in viewers and giving too many hurdles for new viewers to overcome to watch the show — we're always going to try to provide at least an episodic quality to each show. Even though there are plotlines that are ongoing over the course of the whole season, we'll try to give you something in each episode that you can hold on to that starts and stops within that episode.<ref name="ew rdm">{{cite_web|url=http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20036782_20037403_20015932_2,00.html|title=Four-ward, Cylons: RONALD D MOORE|date=|accessdate=31 May 2007|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>
* ''Moore discusses the Final Five:''
: Well, you can see from the end of the third season that they all sort of are still the same people. They're still the same characters. They didn't switch over and become robots suddenly. So essentially you're going to see an extension of that initial moment where they try to figure out what does this mean to them. If they're Cylons, when did that begin? What are their true backstories and what are they meant to do? What are they supposed to do? Are they dangerous to each other? Are they dangerous to the ship? Do they trust any of the people around them? Should they keep the secret only among themselves? That's essentially where their storylines are going to pick up.<ref name="crave">{{cite_web|url=http://www.craveonline.com/filmtv/articles/04648062/battlestar_galactica_ronald_moore_talks_about_earth.html|title=Battlestar Galactica: Ronald Moore talks about Earth|date=13 June 2007|accessdate=15 June 2007|last=Topel|first=Fred|format=|language=}}</ref>
* ''Moore discusses ending the series:''
: Yeah, I mean, the burden [in breaking 20 episodes for this season] then became okay, now we have a great deal to wrap up and bring resolution to and we wanted to pay off a lot of things and we wanted to tie up a lot of loose threads. It felt like we had more than enough to get to where we were going to, whereas usually when you're facing the 20 episode order, it's like, "Okay, whew, we need 20 of these? Where are we going to get 20 of these?" You have to start breaking it down into smaller, bite sized chunks and move yourself along. This time, it was almost like, "Okay, let's make sure we've got enough time to get everywhere we need to go."<ref name="crave"/>
* ''[[Katee Sackhoff]] tells what she can about this final season:''
: We will find [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]]. And [my character, [[Kara Thrace]] is] not a figment of people's imaginations.<ref name="ign-sackhoff"/>
* ''Sackhoff discusses ending the series:''
: I'm happy about it. It is a choice that was made by us. The rug was not pulled out from underneath us. We're going out on a high, with our heads held high. We made the choice and we're going to be able to decide our end and our fate, instead of [having to] wrap it up as fast as we possibly can because we've been cancelled. And it was a smart thing to go out on a high. And you know, this is my fourth series. I think I've done more television than anyone else on the show, except maybe Eddie [James Olmos], because of Miami Vice. He's right there with me! But I've done s**tloads of television, and every single show the rug is pulled from out underneath you, and you're going, "What do I do now?" And this is such a great opportunity to wrap it up, say everything you want to say in your character, and put it to bed.<ref name="ign-sackhoff"/>
* ''[[David Weddle]] on the fourth season:''
: [[Bradley Thompson|Brad]] and I wrote the [[He That Believeth In Me|opening episode]] of year four and we were up in [[w:Vancouver|Vancouver]] for its pre-production and some of the first few days of filming. The revelation at the end of [[Season 3 (2006-07)|last season]] of our [[Final Five#Four Revealed, and their nature|four Cylons]] who didn't know they were Cylons has once again upset all the chess pieces. So the big challenges starting out this season are how do you play those characters going forward and track their emotional development, or unravelling as the case may be, in a way that's organic as well as genuine and not contrived. Also, as most people know, Starbuck reappeared in the final seconds of last year's finale, so there's also the question of how to deal with that character going forward. There are going to be lots of twists and turns this year. You're going to see our characters wrestling with tormenting problems and experiencing, perhaps, some rather jaw-dropping changes and evolutions. All the dynamics that you may have become used to on the Galactica ship itself will be in flux and we think, and hope, that's going to be tremendously fun to watch.<ref name>"Writes of Passage" <u>Cult Times</u> #144. August 26, 2007: 23.</ref>
* ''[[Lucy Lawless]] on the cast and crew reaction behind the scenes:''
: Things seem great actually; far more comfortable than we did on ''[[w:Xena: Warrior Princess|Xena]]'' at this stage, but maybe it hasn’t hit them or maybe it’s an easy adjustment because there are so many of them and several of them are working on ''[[w:Bionic Woman (2007 TV series)|Bionic Woman]]''. The mood is really great. I’m surprised how comfortable they are. Halfway through the last season of ''Xena'', the cast tended to get snappish with one another, and I think it was just anxiety of not knowing where your mortgage payments were coming from. I think the writers’ strike is probably of more significance at this moment; than the end of the show. I don’t think it’s quite real to them yet.<ref name="lawless"/>

== References ==

<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

==Related Topics==
* [[List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)]]

{{episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Behind the Scenes]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|*]]

[[zh:第四季（2008）]]

Jaycie McGavin

2007-10-14T19:47:14Z

Noindiecred: Cleanup

{{Character Data
|photo= Jaycie McGavin.jpg
|age=
|colony=
|birthname= Jaycie McGavin
|callsign=
|nickname=
|seen= Razor Flashbacks
|pseen= Razor Flashbacks, Episode 1
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= [[Raptor]] pilot, [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''
|rank=Lieutenant
|cylon=
|actor=[[Allison Warnyca]]
}}
'''Jaycie McGavin''' is a [[Raptor]] pilot aboard ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' during the twelfth year of the first [[Cylon War]].

During her first mission, she recalls being in a [[Raider (TOS)|Raider]]'s sights and, through instinct and training, destroys the Raider.

By the time she reaches the rank of lieutenant, she has a romantic, or at least sexual, relationship a Viper [[rook]] [[William Adama]]. She is part of a mission to attack a remote Cylon outpost on an unnamed ice planet, attached to [[Raptor Squadron 2]] for the attack ([[Razor Flashbacks]], Episode 1).

During "[[Operation Raptor Talon]]," McGavin is badly wounded, suffering severe burns on half her face when her Raptor's console explodes ([[Razor Flashbacks]], Episode 2).

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: Characters]]
[[Category: Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category: RDM]]

Razor Flashbacks

2007-10-14T03:50:44Z

Noindiecred: /* Notes */ +more TOS uniforms in flashbacks

:''This page covers the webisode series for "Razor," which follows the exploits of the young [[William Adama]] during the [[Cylon War]]. For the two hour television event, see: "[[Razor]]".''
{{Episode Data
| image=Cylon Facility - Razor Flashbacks.jpg
| title=Battlestar Galactica: Razor Flashbacks
| series=
| special= Y
| season=
| episode=
| guests=
| writer=[[Michael Taylor]]
| story=
| director=[[Wayne Rose]]<br/>[[Felix Alcala]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-10-05 through 2007-11-16
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population=
| prev= [[Crossroads, Part II]]
| next= [[Razor]]
}}

'''''Battlestar Galactica: Razor Flashbacks''''' are an online series that aims provide the story of a young [[William Adama]]'s ([[Nico Cortez]]) discovery of a [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] experiment during his time in the first [[Cylon War]]. The webisodes are aimed to lay down the back story for events in [[Season 4 (2008)|Season 4]] that will "threaten him, the crew of the ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' and the survival of the human race". The webisodes can be viewed through the official [http://www.scifi.com/ SciFi.com] or on the screen during airings of ''[[FlashGordonWiki:Flash Gordon (Sci Fi Channel)|Flash Gordon]]'' on Friday at 9/8 P.M. CT.

The webisode series was written by [[Michael Taylor]], and directed by [[Wayne Rose]] and [[Felix Alcala]]. In fact, these flashbacks were cut out of the "[[Razor]]" television movie due to time constraints, but will be reintegrated in the version of "Razor" for the [[Razor (Region 1 DVD)|Region 1 DVD]].

== Summary ==
===Episode 1===

[[Image:Razor Flashback 1.jpg|thumb|Young [[William Adama|Bill Adama]] with [[Jaycie McGavin]] on ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''.]]

* Running time: ~00:02:30
* Day: 4,571 (First [[Cylon War]])
* SCI FI Pulse link: http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=163960

On board ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', [[Jaycie McGavin]] and [[William Adama]] are having sex in the [[duty locker]], during which McGavin asks if Adama left his boots out. Adama tells her that he ran into the Commander while he was taking off his boots, which leads into them mocking the commander with one of his apparently [[Nothing but the rain|well-known greetings]].

McGavin and Adama talk before joining a battle to attack an ice planet in the "ass end of nowhere", where a rumored [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] superweapon is allegedly being built. It is defended heavily by the Cylons: three [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]] wings, ground forces, defensive batteries and nuclear weapons.

Another rumor they talk about is that peace negotiations are in progress and that the Cylons may unexpectedly surrender, which McGavin scoffs as unlikely. She runs off to report to a briefing for [[Raptor Squadron 2]], leaving Adama alone as the ship readies itself for possible nuclear attack.

===Episode 2===
*Running time: ~00:02:41
* Day: 4,571 (First Cylon War)
* SCI FI Pulse link: http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=163980

McGavin returns from her mission badly wounded. Adama tries to reassure her that she will live, but she tells him that he was always a bad liar. After medics carry Gavin to [[sickbay]], Adama is filled with anger against the Cylons and cleared to launch in his [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]].

===Episode 3===
*Running time: N/A

Not yet available.

===Episode 4===
*Running time: N/A

Not yet available.

===Episode 5===
*Running time: N/A

Not yet available.

===Episode 6===
*Running time: N/A

Not yet available.

===Episode 7===
*Running time: N/A

Not yet available.

== Notes ==

* The "[[Nothing but the rain]]" greeting apparently originates with ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'s'' wartime commander, which would later be passed down by [[William Adama]] to [[Kara Thrace]].
* The [[Cylon War]] has lasted for the past twelve and a half years.
* Raptors were also in operation during the Cylon War.
* The reference to an ice planet with a superweapon based on it seems reminiscent of [[Arcta]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] episode "[[The Gun on Ice Planet Zero, Part I]]".
* Additionally, the braiding around the uniform collar of the pilots, in addition to the segmented uniform vest, appears inspired by the [[Uniforms (TOS)|Colonial uniforms of the Original Series]].
** In Episode 2, Adama passes a man in ''Galactica'''s hallway wearing the beige tunic of a [[Uniforms (TOS)#Warrior_uniforms|warrior uniform]] from the original series, without the brown jacket.

== Analysis ==

Not yet available.

== Questions ==

== Official Statements ==

Not yet available.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

Not yet available.

== Cast ==
These are listed in the order they appeared during the 7 episodes.

{| class="messagebox" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2"
! class="infoboxheader" | '''Cast Member'''
! class="infoboxheader" | '''Character'''
! class="infoboxheader" colspan="7" | '''Episode(s)'''
|-
| [[Edward James Olmos]]
| [[William Adama]]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| [[Nico Cortez]]
| Young [[William Adama]]
| 1
| 2
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| [[Allison Warnyca]]
| [[Jaycie McGavin]]
| 1
| 2
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| [[Jacob Blair]]
| Squad Leader [[Banzai]]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| [[Campbell Lane]]
| [[Hybrid]]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| [[Chris Bradford]]
| Ops Officer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| [[Ben Cotton]]
| [[Terrified Man]]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|}

== Crew ==

The full list of cast and crew is up on [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/razor/credits/ the SciFi.com Razor website].

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[http://frakked.blogspot.com/2007/10/razor-flashback-1.html Full transcript of Razor Flashback - Episode 1]

{{episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Behind the Scenes]]
[[Category:Episode Guide]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|*]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Taylor]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Félix Enríquez Alcalá]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Wayne Rose]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Razor Flashbacks

2007-10-08T02:06:35Z

Noindiecred: /* Cast */ Wrong actor

:''This page covers the webisode series for "Razor," which follows the exploits of the young [[William Adama]] during the [[Cylon War]]. For the two hour television event, see: "[[Razor]]".''
{{Episode Data
| image=Cylon Facility - Razor Flashbacks.jpg
| title=Battlestar Galactica: Razor Flashbacks
| series=
| special= Y
| season=
| episode=
| guests=
| writer=[[Michael Taylor]]
| story=
| director=[[Wayne Rose]]<br/>[[Felix Alcala]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2007-10-05 through 2007-11-16
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population=
| prev= [[Crossroads, Part II]]
| next= [[Razor]]
}}

'''''Battlestar Galactica: Razor Flashbacks''''' are an online series that aims provide the story of a young [[William Adama]]'s ([[Nico Cortez]]) discovery of a [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] experiment during his time in the first [[Cylon War]]. The webisodes are aimed to lay down the back story for events in [[Season 4 (2008)|Season 4]] that will "threaten him, the crew of the ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' and the survival of the human race". The webisodes can be viewed through the official [http://www.scifi.com/ SciFi.com] or on the screen during airings of ''[[FlashGordonWiki:Flash Gordon (Sci Fi Channel)|Flash Gordon]]'' on Friday at 9/8 P.M. CT.

The webisode series was written by [[Michael Taylor]], and directed by [[Wayne Rose]] and [[Felix Alcala]]. In fact, these flashbacks were cut out of the "[[Razor]]" television movie due to time constraints, but will be reintegrated in the version of "Razor" for the [[Razor (Region 1 DVD)|Region 1 DVD]].

== Summary ==
===Episode 1===

[[Image:Razor Flashback 1.jpg|thumb|Young [[William Adama|Bill Adama]] with [[Jaycie McGavin]] on ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''.]]

* Running time: ~00:02:30
* Day: 4,571 (First [[Cylon War]])
* SCI FI Pulse link: http://video.scifi.com/player/?id=163960

On board ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', [[Jaycie McGavin]] and [[William Adama]] are having sex in the [[duty locker]], during which McGavin asks if Adama left his boots out. Adama tells her that he ran into the Commander while he was taking off his boots, which leads into them mocking the commander with one of his apparently [[Nothing but the rain|well-known greetings]].

McGavin and Adama talk before joining a battle to attack an ice planet in the "ass end of nowhere", where a rumored [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] superweapon is allegedly being built. It is defended heavily by the Cylons: three [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]] wings, ground forces, defensive batteries and nuclear weapons.

Another rumor they talk about is that peace negotiations are in progress and that the Cylons may unexpectedly surrender, which McGavin scoffs as unlikely. She runs off to report to a briefing for [[Raptor Squadron 2]], leaving Adama alone as the ship readies itself for possible nuclear attack.

===Episode 2===
*Running time: N/A

Not yet available.

===Episode 3===
*Running time: N/A

Not yet available.

===Episode 4===
*Running time: N/A

Not yet available.

===Episode 5===
*Running time: N/A

Not yet available.

===Episode 6===
*Running time: N/A

Not yet available.

===Episode 7===
*Running time: N/A

Not yet available.

== Notes ==

* The "[[Nothing but the rain]]" greeting apparently originates with ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'s'' wartime commander, which would later be passed down by [[William Adama]] to [[Kara Thrace]].
* The [[Cylon War]] has lasted for the past twelve and a half years.
* Raptors were also in operation during the Cylon War.
* The reference to an ice planet with a superweapon based on it seems reminiscent of [[Arcta]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] episode "[[The Gun on Ice Planet Zero, Part I]]".

== Analysis ==

Not yet available.

== Questions ==

== Official Statements ==

Not yet available.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

Not yet available.

== Cast ==
These are listed in the order they appeared during the 7 episodes.

{| class="messagebox" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="2"
! class="infoboxheader" | '''Cast Member'''
! class="infoboxheader" | '''Character'''
! class="infoboxheader" colspan="7" | '''Episode(s)'''
|-
| [[Nico Cortez]]
| [[William Adama]]
| 1
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| [[Allison Warnyca]]
| [[Jaycie McGavin]]
| 1
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| [[Jacob Blair]]
| Squad Leader [[Banzai]]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| [[Campbell Lane]]
| [[Hybrid]]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| [[Chris Bradford]]
| Ops Officer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|-
| [[Ben Cotton]]
| [[Terrified Man]]
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|}

== Crew ==

The full list of cast and crew is up on [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/razor/credits/ the SciFi.com Razor website].

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[http://frakked.blogspot.com/2007/10/razor-flashback-1.html Full transcript of Razor Flashback - Episode 1]

{{episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Behind the Scenes]]
[[Category:Episode Guide]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|*]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Taylor]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Félix Enríquez Alcalá]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Wayne Rose]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:CIC/Archive 1

2007-10-05T00:34:14Z

Noindiecred: /* The Core */ Another scene featuring the core, I think

I thought it was "COMBAT Information Center"; can this page be changed? --Ricimer, 26 Aug 2005

==Expansion==
I'm flagging this for expansion. There's a lot of information on scifi.com that we should incorporate, including a detailed floorplan. We should get some words about ''Pegasus's'' CIC up as well. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:55, 18 October 2005 (EDT)
:There is a little about the origin of the Pegasus sets on its article page as well. Perhaps with Resurrection Ship and later episodes we will gain more. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:52, 18 October 2005 (EDT)

Expansion is complete, using the [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/cic/ QuickTime 3D movie tours of the set] that allowed me to take a picture of CIC from practically any angle. While Sci-Fi Channel's information should always be taken with a grain of salt (the viewer area incorrectly calls CIC the "''Command'' Information Center"), it would be hard to screw up the pictures that make up CIC, and the names of the stations appear sound and match better to the previous labels from the previous incarnation of this page. Formatting was done to allow later text expansion and minimize picture collisions. I removed episode information as much of it was covered in other articles. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:59, 5 January 2006 (EST)

== Help with Image Formatting Here ==

CIC is a very visual place. My recent updates to expand this push my own wiki formatting limits. Day removed the use of breaks I made to keep text from awkwardly colliding about in one sectioon, damaging the asthetics of the page. I reverted that change for now, but any help to improve this page's formatting is greatly appreciated. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:17, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:If you look at the [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images|Island]], Day demonstrated how you can use "div" tags to set up partitions/divisions between sections to make sure that they do not overlap. Is this what you were trying to do? (Also, if you use the / in the breaks Day is more likely to leave them alone... he's the XHTML enforcer, apparently.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:15, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::That he is! :) I'll look at how that's used and incorporate the idea from the Island. So, are you the lion king? I want to be the Cylon-in-the-box. Nobody wants a Cylon-in-the-box... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:49, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::Those dividers look sharp! I posted that same kind of formatting question on the island, and Day responded by filling in those div tags. I'm glad his tip worked here too. As for my title, I think somebody once proclaimed me the King of the TOS pages. El Rey de Los Paginas de Serie Original feels a bit more appropriate right now, but I think I'm just experimenting in the translating business until somebody who knows what they're doing gets fed up with how bad that is and replaces it with some proper Spanish. As for your title... perhaps the Battlestar Wiki Greeter? (Though you don't seem quite old enough to have taken on that role, if the age requirements are anything like Walmart.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 16:07, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::For you, alternately, "El Supremo." :) You are authorized to shoot anyone (including yourself) in regards to inquiries about me and how it compares to WalMart greeting functions in the future. Damn it, I'm not that old...I'm not...! (snif) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:23, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::::By your command. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 22:10, 24 January 2006 (EST)

:::: Yes! Very sharp! Also, entirely XHTML 1.0 Transitional compliant! *wink* I'm a bit of a [http://validator.w3.org/ validation] nazi because of my experience with being the web guy for [http://www.texassportsweekly.com Texas Sports Weekly]. I'll try to keep my [http://www.w3.org/ W3C]-heiling down to a dull roar, though. Not everyone is as obsessive-compulsive as I am about it. Anyway, I'm glad that div thing works so well. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:14, 25 January 2006 (EST)

== Cinematic Information Confusion ==

I'm having a great deal of difficulty parsing the last "Cinematic Information" bullet, specifically
:The area was likely built with the set budget before later restrictions would make building one impossible

I get that the (stage) area was likely built with the budget for the BSG set. That makes so much sense it's almost redundant. What about "before later restrictions"? Does that maybe have to do with the set budget being reduced in the future? Or some sort of imminent OSHA regulation that would prevent the set's alteration on the sound stage? Or something else?

So I guess I wonder what kind of "restrictions" the writer is talking about, and why "later". ("Later" in reference to what time?)

One thing that makes sense is that the Weapons Control Room needed to be seen in the miniseries or else there would be continuity problems in the regular series, should the show be picked up. But that isn't insurmountable; problems of that nature can usually be dealt with by writing a brief "remodeling" story into the screenplay.

Additionally, it's actually called the The Weapons Control ''Room'' above, but ''Section'' here. Though I suppose one can consider the terms close enough to be equal. --[[User:JohnH]] 19:25, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

: In [[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: The Next Generation|Star Trek: The Next Generation]] for the [[MemoryAlpha:Encounter at Farpoint|first episode]] they wrote in a scene to occur in Engineering because if they didn't build that set for the pilot, no later budget ''increase'' would allow for the set to be built. Roddenberry though that was a travesty, so he wrote it in after the script was already done.

:That's just an example, but, as I understand it, when a show is new, it gets a big budget for building sets, but for subsequent seasons, the budget is reduced (justified, I suppose, by the idea that most of the sets are already built). Also, how beleivable would a "remodeling" plot be aboard ''Galactica''? The ship's already built. All the space inside the frame is alotted to something. When things like this need expanding, they go into dry dock. I don't think they've got the infrastructure to do much remodeling at all. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:22, 1 February 2006 (EST)

::Day's example is EXACTLY the situation I was thinking of when adding that. It's a presumption for BSG, but a likely one. As far as naming, the CIC tour uses section normally, but Weapons Control Room is the term used in the CIC tour. Of course, Sci-Fi also calls CIC incorrectly as the Command Information Center, so... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:22, 3 February 2006 (EST)

== TOS Bridge ==

Does anyone plan to do an equivalent article about the Original Series control center?

[[User:Davidkevin|Davidkevin]] 04:25, 17 March 2006 (CST)

: Go for it, man. Make sure one doesn't already exist. A likely place to look would be linked from the TOS page on ''Galactica''. Feel free to get it going, though. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:47, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::[[Core Command]] is what you're looking for. It's actually listed in the stubs in the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|OSAD]]. And I agree... go for it! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:12, 17 March 2006 (CST)

== The Core ==

In "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]", Gaeta mentions an area of the CIC known only as "the Core". The area makes up the second tier of the CIC, covering an area about 1/3 of its perimeter. Additionally, the area leads into a room lined with extensive computer consoles, which is buzzing with activity. Despite its obvious importance, I'm not sure exactly what the area does. I suspect that the Core is an engineering station, or perhaps it is used for astrometrics. I would love to write it into the article, but I hesitate due to the apparent lack of information regarding its purpose, and could use any research help anybody would be willing to provide. If anybody knows what the area is used for, or can at least speculate from hints and visual clues, I would sure like to hear it. I could also use a vidcap.--[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 03:44, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

:Hi, OrionFour. Nice catch. Based on the context of the dialogue as well as the location, "the core" appears to be the otherwise undocumented upper decks and conference areas of CIC. Roslin and Adama have met there several times over the series, most recently in "Crossroads, Part II." Given how much it takes to run an older non-networked battlestar, for CIC to have several decks and people with computers that are independent, the core is just a part of CIC we viewers just have to accept as part of the "background." I think you have plenty of data, so create a subsection as the last items, below the central deck areas already listed. Have fun! :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:05, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

:Since we don't really know anything about the specific stations there, you'd have to stick with general information, but it's worth noting. As for a screenshot: with general shots like this I have a hard time remember scenes that have a good view, but if you have something specific in mind, I can take one. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:16, 3 October 2007 (CDT)

:: Well, if I recall correctly, the FTL station is up in the "core", so we can cap that. Also, there are a few scenes in "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down" where Roslin speaks to Adama; Adama tells her that if he's a Cylon, they're all screwed. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 16:18, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
:::From what I can tell, the FTL station (with the flip cover where they insert the keys) is on the lower level. I'll take a look at "TMU, TMD" tomorrow and see if I can get a good shot. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:25, 3 October 2007 (CDT)
:Virtually all the shots of the Core are the same I've found. It's typically Adama walking along the perimeter heading towards the back room from the stairs. Or Adama seen with the 1st floor of the CIC in the back. I do seem to remember some scene in some episode where Adama and Tigh are leaning against the bulkhead chatting about something. This scene is shot from the back room, looking outward onto the Core and the 1st floor CIC below. When I make it back to my main computer on Friday, I'll be able to go through more episodes to find you a good shot. I'm pretty sure Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down still has the best shots, but I want to look through a few other episodes just to be sure. In the very beginning of the episode Adama and Roslin are talking in the Core (or perhaps just outside?), and the camera is doing a shot/reverse shot. When the shot focuses on Adama, all you see is a computer console and the 1st floor CIC below, but when the camera is focused on Roslin you see the back room, which is heavily manned and highly computerized. I think the shots of Adama walking and the back room are probably your best shots.
:I'm still stuck on exactly what it does. It's probably just a Mr. Coffee or something. Goes to show you just how much time and effort went into this series, that even the background is highly detailed and expensive. Wait a minute.... could this be.... a computer core? Or would that violate the principle of non-networked computers? Not if the Core is actually where all the various isolated CIC computers are operated. It makes sense that a nerve center such as the CIC would require a place to monitor and operate computer systems. Think of it as a hub, where data comes in from throughout the ship and is then distributed to the various consoles in the CIC. Imagine what the computer-paranoid Colonials were thinking when they designed the first 12 battlestars. It wasn't enough to have non-networked computers. They needed a place where the commander could quickly and easily shut down individuals computer systems. Additionally, they needed this place to be in the most heavily defended part of the ship - the CIC. I know I can't put that in the article, because it's not proven, but it seems to me to be the most logical application. Tell me what you think. --[[User:OrionFour|OrionFour]] 00:48, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
:: Well, the "core" could mean anything. Although a "computer core" would not be violating the principle of non-networked computers. Actually, the computers would still need to be "networked", per se, as there would need to be a server with workstations. Think of it would be a LAN without access to a wider network per se.
:: Each LAN has a different, unique function. The issue is the different LANs don't communicate with each other directly. They're all individual networks that control only one function (or one group of similar functions).
:: There would have to be some form of "network" on a battlestar to regulate systems. The one thing I kinda cringe at is the fact that they use the term "network" so carelessly... but that's another subject for another time.
:: As for pictures, the best bet is "TMU, TMD"... although I ''think'' we can get pictures of the core in the first four episodes of Season 3, if memory serves. But don't quote me on that. ;-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New'']</sup> 00:59, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
:::Wow... that's RIGHT at the beginning.
:::http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=31&pos=1
:::From http://www.sadgeezer.com/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=753:
:::Gaeta: (approaching) Commander? Here's Doctor Baltar's report. And the President is waiting for you up in the core.
:::Adama: (glances at it) Thank you.

:::Adama then looks to the upper deck and sees President Roslin observing him. He gives a little smile and gestures at her with the report, and she smiles back a little too. A moment later Adama walks up to the core.
:::Adama: (to his men at the controls) Clear the deck. (they do) Madame President, we are the proud owners of the universe's first bona fide Cylon detector.
:::Most of the shots are face shots, but some of the caps show the higher relative position:
:::http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=31&pos=9
:::http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=31&pos=2
:::Also a LITTLE bit behind Adama:
:::http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/displayimage.php?album=31&pos=11
:::Maybe somebody capping by hand could come up with some more specific shots. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 01:56, 4 October 2007 (CDT)
Hey, OrionFour. I think the scene you're talking about with Adama and Tigh chatting up in "the core" is the bit at the beginning of Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II, when Adama calls the Roslin to ask for her resignation. But I could be mistaken. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 19:34, 4 October 2007 (CDT)

Viper Mark VII

2007-09-18T15:16:25Z

Noindiecred: /* Maelstrom Variant */ POV issues

:''This article discusses the newer Viper-class fighters seen in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]. For information on the older, generally obsolete Viper Mark II fighter from the same series, see [[Viper Mark II]]. For the Viper used in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] and in [[Galactica 1980]], see [[Viper (TOS)]].''
{{Ship Data
| image= BSG-Mark-VII.jpg
| title= Viper Mk. VII
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= No
| propol= 3 x turbothrust engines mounted aft, [[RCS]] points<ref name="propol">Very segmented exhaust nozzle design suggest possible thrust-vectoring.</ref>
| crew= 1 pilot in Terrell ES 24C ejection seat. <ref name="camp">Ammunition used was same as older Viper models; the Mark VII guns appear to have a higher rate of fire. Armaments listings and ejector seat details from David Bassom's ''[[The Official Companion|Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion]]''.</ref>
| role= Space superiority fighter
| weapons= 3 [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Viper and Cylon Raider|Kinetic Energy Weapons]], missiles
| arm= 3 x forward-firing kinetic energy weapons ([[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Viper and Cylon Raider|KEW]]), 2 mounted towards the outboard sections of the wings, 1 x mounted in the vertical stabiliser, Weapon hardpoints for mounting missiles / munitions pods, etc. under the wings.<ref name="camp"/>
| status= In current Colonial service
| length= 9.8643 meters<ref name="dim">Dimensions provided by [http://www.leestringer.com/ Lee Stringer], one of the VFX Animators of the miniseries. These are for the CGI models, which are based on but not identical to the fullsize props. Source: [http://www.starshipbuilder.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000012.html Starshipbuilder.com forums]</ref>
| height= 2.9508 meters<ref name="inflight">In flight, without landing gear. Landing gear adds approximately 0.5m.</ref>
| wingspan= 5.61 meters
}}
The '''Viper Mark VII''' was the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]]'s latest update to the venerable [[Viper Mark II]] primary space superiority fighter / attack craft. Capable of atmospheric flight, the Viper is a single-seat craft mounting three kinetic energy weapons ([[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Viper and Cylon Raider|KEW]]), as well as having hardpoints beneath the wings for mounting missiles, munitions pods and other ordnance ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The Mark VII was the front-line variant of the Viper design, retaining the Mark II's general layout but adding fully integrated avionics that provide superior battle management and flight information for the pilot.

Ironically, it was the incorporation of the new integrated systems that prevented the majority of Mark VIIs from being effective during the Cylon attack: as with the majority of Colonial Fleet, the Mark VIIs suffer fatal computer system failures on contact with Cylon forces. Thanks to a [[Number Six|Cylon agent]]'s relationship with Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]], scientist and programmer of the navigation software project, the [[CNP|navigational software]] in use onboard the majority of Colonial Fleet vessels contained backdoors that allow the Cylons to infiltrate a vessel's network by [[wireless]] signals and disable its power systems. While the problem could be overcome by removing the navigational upgrade compromised by the Cylons, this information is not discovered in time to be of major benefit to the surprised and hard-pressed Colonial forces.

== Technical Specifications ==

=== [[Computers#Avionics|Avionics]] ===

:''Main article: [[Computers in the Re-imagined Series#Vipers and Raptors|Computers in the Re-imagined Series]]''

[[Image:ViperMk7Avionics.jpg|left|thumb|200px|Mark VII main instrument panel]]
The Mark VII cockpit is almost totally computerized. There are far fewer analog gauges and more reliance on a more powerful central flight computer. This gives the Mark VII pilot far greater control of the fighter as well as, presumably, greater targeting control in a dogfight.

However, the latest and last software upgrade, the [[CNP]] upgrade, introduced a fatal flaw (inserted by a [[Cylon agent]]) in the Mark VII that led to the virtual annihilation of most of these fighters in the opening wave of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]].

The surviving Mark VII fighters on both ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' were retrofitted to older avionics packages to replace the compromised CNP, or other subsystems in the fighter were augmented or removed to minimize or eliminate further infiltration.

As of "[[Scar]]", ''Pegasus'' has begun to use her onboard construction facilities to produce replacement Vipers. Enough materials are mined in the asteroid field to produce two full squadrons. Presumably, these are Mark VII Vipers fitted with Cylon-proof avionics. Also, since ''Pegasus'' joined the Fleet, the Mark IIs have been steadily phased out in favor of the retrofitted Mark VIIs, of which many were intact aboard ''Pegasus''.

=== Armament ===

:''Main article: [[Weapons in the Re-imagined Series#Viper_and_Cylon_Raider|Weapons in the Re-imagined Series]]''

The Mark VII's main weapons are three cannons, two in the wings and one in the vertical stabiliser. However, usually only the wing-mounted cannons are used.

Like the [[Viper Mark II|Mark II]], it can also be armed with missiles.

=== Performance ===

*While the Mark II could rotate 180 degrees vertically in .35 seconds ([[Act of Contrition]]), it is presumed that the Mark VII has an equal or better performance ratio.

=== Other design features ===

The Viper Mark VII has primary and secondary hydraulics, the secondary system presumably acting as a redundant backup for mission-critical prime system. Damage to both systems does not significantly compromise the Viper's performance as a space combat craft, provided the pilot is sufficiently skilled to manage the changed flight characteristics ([[Scar]]). The consequences of the loss of both systems in atmospheric flight would undoubtedly be far more dire.

==Known Viper Mark VIIs==
*[[Viper 2276]]
*[[Viper 412]]
*[[Viper 613]]
*[[Viper 8757]]

==Maelstrom Variant==
[[Image:Viper Mk VII Maelstrom.JPG|thumb|Viper Mk VII in flight ([[Maelstrom]]).]]
During the episode "[[Maelstrom]]", a possible variant of the Viper Mk VII appears throughout. It is characterized by angular intakes and a different forward fuselage. It is unknown if this is a true variant or [[retroactive continuity|retroactive update]] of the design; Mk VIIs seen on the hangar deck are still of the original design.

== Notes ==
* Since ''Galactica'' only had 40 Viper Mark IIs aboard as part of its museum, they needed as many fighters as possible. The remaining Mark VII's advanced computer systems were refitted to resist Cylon infiltration. However, since this is not how the Mark VII was designed to fly, the craft is increasingly more difficult to handle and can only be flown by the most experienced pilots such as [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] and [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]. ''Galactica'' had roughly 6-8 Mark VIIs on board after the Cylon attack ([[Scattered]], [[Flight of the Phoenix]]). (Source: [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/|official Scifi.com series website])

* According to [[David Weddle]] during the [[Podcast:Scar#Act 2|"Scar" podcast]] the Mark VII cockpit design "was actually laid out based on, I think it's either the [[Wikipedia:F-16 Fighting Falcon|F-16]] or the [[Wikipedia:F/A-18 Hornet|F-18]]." The side-mounted control stick more closely resembles that of the F-16, which is appropriate given the "Viper" nickname of the jet (that was initially the General Dynamics codename for the project, which was in turn named for the [[Viper (TOS)|TOS Viper]]).

* Also revealed in the podcast for Scar is that the full cockpit interior for the Viper Mark VII was built for the episode "Scar". "Flight of the Phoenix" had paved the way for the construction of the full cockpit when "the line producers and the production designers figure[d] out ways to move money around that basically bought us this cockpit because we had built the [[Blackbird|stealth fighter]]." The cockpit interior may have been constructed at the same time the Blackbird was being built.

* Like the [[Viper (TOS)|Original Series' Viper]], the weapons fire of Vipers on the Re-Imagined Series is red, however, the button is on the center of the joystick for the Mark VII, and the left for the Mark II ([[33]]).

* According to ''[[Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion]]'', when creating the design of the Viper Mark VII, [[Gary Hutzel]] took a prexisting design from the [[Video Game|2003 video game]] loosely based on a mix of the Original Series and upcoming [[Miniseries]], then "did some modifications, and that became the Viper Mark VII".

== Related Imagery ==
<gallery>
Image:MkVII Vipers sideon.jpg|Zoic CGI model
Image:BSG-Mark-VII.jpg|Zoic CGI model
</gallery>

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:Technology]]
[[Category:Technology (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Viper Mark VII]]

Saul Tigh

2007-07-18T17:35:26Z

Noindiecred: Moving miniseries deleted scene info, as per talk page

{{Character Data
|photo= Saul Tigh.jpg
|age= Alledgedly 65-71
|colony= Aerelon
|birthname=
|callsign=
|seen= Miniseries
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children= None
|marital status=Widower, formerly married to [[Ellen Tigh]]†
|role= Executive Officer, [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''
|rank= Colonel
|actor= [[Michael Hogan]]
|cylon= y
|name= Saul Tigh
}}

'''Saul Tigh''' is the [[Executive Officer]] (XO) of ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', as well as frequently serving as acting Commander in the place of [[William Adama]]. Before that, he served as Adama's XO on the battlestar ''[[Valkyrie]]''. A tough but troubled man with a long history of alcoholism, Tigh has served in the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] since his teenage years, seeing action in both [[Cylon War]]s. He is a widower of the deceased [[Ellen Tigh]].

== Biography ==

=== Background ===
Tigh was supposedly born on the colony of [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Aerelon|Aerelon]].<ref name="aerelon">"Cylon Intelligence Report: Personnel File: Saul Tigh." <u>Battlestar Galactica: The Official Magazine</u>. Feb./Mar. 2006: 62.</ref> (He has recently been revealed as a Cylon presumably making this point moot). A veteran of the Cylon War, Tigh is sometimes estranged from his wife Ellen and has been somewhat disillusioned with his career, seeking refuge in alcoholism - a move which has led many in the crew to view him with contempt ([[Miniseries]], [[33]]).

Tigh began his career as a deckhand<ref name="deckhand">''Ibid''. "Saul Tigh entered the fleet as a deckhand but rose through the ranks and was a CPO (Chief Petty Officer) by the time the First Cylon War broke out."</ref>. By the second year of the first [[Cylon War]], he was serving as a gunner's mate onboard the ''[[Brenik]]''. His ship was boarded by the Cylons where he and others fought in hand to hand combat, during the bloodiest time of that war. It was during this battle that he saw his first dead man, [[Duncan Rafferty]], who was violently vivisected by Centurions ([http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/202/deleted1.html deleted scene], [[Valley of Darkness]]). His ship was subsequently destroyed and he survived. He was transferred to another unnamed ship, which succumbed to a similar fate as his original ship. Having borne witness to many a bloody combat, he became emotionally scarred, which had, among other impetuses, led him to alcoholism.
[[Image:Tighadama.jpg|Tigh and Adama's first meeting.|left|thumb]]

Tigh eventually achieved the rank of Chief Petty Officer ([[Galen Tyrol]]'s position on ''Galactica''). When Viper pilot numbers began running low in the war, Tigh was drafted into Colonial Officer Candidate School and was reassigned as a Viper pilot.<ref>{{cite rdm podcast|episode=Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down}}</ref> As a pilot, he demonstrated considerable skill, earning several medals while posted aboard the battlestar ''[[Athena (Battlestar)|Athena]]''.<ref name="athena">''Ibid''. "Tigh joined the Colonial Officer Candidate School and was reassigned as a Viper pilot, something he excelled in, earning a string of medals in his post aboard the battlestar Athena."</ref>

After the cessation of hostilities, he was dismissed from service and eked out an existence as a deckhand aboard a commercial freighter. Tigh clearly experienced signs of post-traumatic stress disorder; he commented that every time he smelled grease or machine oil he would nearly vomit, as this smell reminded him of the "stink" of Centurions ([[Valley of Darkness]], [[List of Deleted Scenes|deleted scene]]). While on board, he drowned himself in alcohol and, after a time, about 20 years after the War, encountered [[William Adama]], who had not seen as much combat experience as Tigh himself. They became fast friends, and remained in touch after Adama reenlisted with the service. Two years later, Tigh found himself reinstated into the Colonial Fleet at the rank of captain, thanks to his old friend, and now major, Adama.<ref name="adama">''Ibid''. "Adama reenlisted with the service and Tigh spent two years drinking before Adama pulled strings to get him back into service. Tigh was straightening his life out when he met his wife Ellen, whom he courted and married within two months, about 7 years before the [[Miniseries]]. Unfortunately, Ellen did not take well to military life and her repeated infidelities drove Tigh back into the bottle. The two separated shortly before the Cylon attack.</ref>

Following the Cylon attack, Tigh recovered some of his old verve and attempted to give up alcohol. However, this, combined with the initial stress of flight from the Cylons caused him to over-compensate as a martinet, frequently driving the personnel overly-hard, and berating where encouragement would prove the better option ([[33]]). He excused this by using the truism that the XO is supposed to be the "hard face" of command.
[[image:33-Tigh_Adama.jpg|thumb|right|"If the crew doesn't hate the XO, then he's not doing his job."]]
With his drinking problem relatively under control, Tigh settled back into his role as the ''Galactica'''s Executive Officer and proved himself both honest and level-headed - if still hard on himself and others - in a number of circumstances, and he provided the kind of support [[William Adama|Adama]] needed.

During Cylon attacks, Tigh has proved himself to be an excellent battle manager and tactician. His quick actions sometimes saved the ship and [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] from damage or destruction ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]], [[Scattered]], [[Valley of Darkness]]).

Tigh is uneasy around President [[Laura Roslin]] ([[Water]]), and resents what he sees as her interfering with Adama's command ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]) - something born out of his deep respect for Adama which even the most heated of disagreements between them ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]) cannot disrupt.

Tigh personally dislikes [[Kara Thrace]], one of ''Galactica'''s pilots and, while grudgingly conceding she is a fine pilot, does not understand what Adama sees in her ([[Miniseries]]). Tigh sees Thrace as an egotistical, insubordinate youngster. While they have tried to bury the hatchet between them ([[Miniseries]], [[Water]]), there is potentially too much water under the bridge now for them to get completely past their differences.

Outside of Adama, Tigh has few others he regards as confidants aboard ship; and since the initial Cylon attack, he has withdrawn from interacting with the crew during off-duty hours, making him perhaps more isolated than even Adama - who is at least held in awe and respect by the crew.

=== Wife's Return ===
[[image:Tigh_Me_Up_Tigh_Me_Down-Saul_Ellen.jpg|thumb|left|'''Tigh''' and his newly returned wife, [[Ellen Tigh|Ellen]], making a toast: "To starting over" ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).]]
Some three weeks after the Cylon attack on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], Tigh is stunned to discover his wife, [[Ellen Tigh|Ellen]], has not been killed as he had thought, but was rescued from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]], and carried aboard the ''[[Rising Star (RDM)|Rising Star]]'' as an unconscious "Jane Doe".

Despite the emotional implications from the destruction of the Colonies and life aboard the ship, Tigh is reluctantly thrust further into politics as his wife plays her schemes. Much to his disdain, his wife attempts to procure photo opportunities with the likes of [[Tom Zarek]] -- a person Tigh views with the utmost contempt ([[Colonial Day]]). Additionally, Ellen seems to re-establish Tigh's alcoholism with gratuitous drinking.

Despite this, Adama sends Tigh with a squadron of [[Colonial Marine Corps|marines]] to arrest [[Laura Roslin]] after Adama discovers that she convinced [[Kara Thrace]] to [[FTL|Jump]] back to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] to retrieve a historical artifact called the [[Arrow of Apollo]] from the Delphi Museum. This action deprives the Fleet of a crucial military asset -- a captured [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raider]], intended to have been used to plant a nuclear warhead aboard a basestar in orbit around the planet believed to be [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] -- and convinces Adama that Roslin is abusing her authority.

Onboard ''[[Colonial One]]'', Tigh's men and Roslin's [[Presidential Security Service|personal security agents]] are at a standoff when [[Lee Adama]] aims a weapon at Tigh's head and attempts to thwart the arrest. Attempting to defuse the situation, Roslin agrees to be arrested and Lee Adama is arrested on charges of treason ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).

=== Tigh in Command ===
[[Image:Scattered-Tigh.jpg|thumb|right|Tigh realizing he's in a bit over his head ([[Scattered]]).]]
Tigh is present in [[CIC]] during the attempted assassination of Adama by [[Sharon Valerii]]. As guards restrain Valerii, Tigh attempts to stop the bleeding from the torso gunshot wounds Adama sustained in the attempt ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Needing reliable officers, Tigh grants Lee Adama a parole from his arrest. After his daily duties as [[CAG]] are done, Lee promises to return to the brig when off-shift.

With Adama incapacitated and with Roslin dethroned, Tigh tries to maintain order. However, his irrational and gruff command style displeases many crew members. Morale and ship efficiency began to suffer. Ellen Tigh becomes a private adviser to her husband, frequently questioning his power to command while also suggesting ways of usurping more power and quashing his opponents. Ellen Tigh's advice only exacerbates an already-deteriorating situation.

Tigh's interrogation of suspected Cylon collaborators or infiltrators is brutal. After beating, then nearly shooting the ''Galactica'' copy of Valerii, other issues in the Fleet divert him from further interrogation. He orders a special cage made for her for later interrogation. Tigh also savagely interrogates Valerii's former lover, Chief [[Galen Tyrol]] as a possible [[humanoid Cylon]] himself. Tigh would have left him with Valerii in the newly built Cylon cage if [[Gaius Baltar]] did not intervene to prove medically that Tyrol is not a Cylon himself.

With Roslin in prison, uprisings begin as civilian ships refuse to supply ''Galactica'' until Roslin is released. Worse, the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]] demand to see Roslin. Knowing of Roslin's hallucinations in the brig, he intentionally invites the Quorum to see Roslin in her poor state in hopes of disillusioning the Quorum. However, Roslin recovers sufficiently from her [[Chamalla]] withdrawal after getting a supply smuggled to her by Corporal [[Venner]], her guard. Tigh, a secular man, believes that the accounts within the [[Sacred Scrolls]] weren't to be believed, and teases Roslin in front of the Quorum on her visions. Roslin not only is able to speak to the Quorum, but decisively reinforces her decisions as well as her role in the search for the location of Earth as told in the Pythian prophesies. This act greatly impresses the dominantly religious-minded Quorum, and infuriates Tigh; fearing a larger civilian government uprising led by the Quorum. Tigh institutes [[Wikipedia:martial law|martial law]] throughout the Fleet in an attempt to maintain order in a rapidly chaotic shuffle of power between the civilian and military governments ([[Fragged]]).

The supply situation leads Tigh to a poor decision of using Viper pilots to command marines in forcibly retrieving supplies. On [[Gideon|one ship]], a riot leads to four deaths and many injuries due to the pilot's inexperience in managing such a situation. Unlike Adama (who likely would have taken direct responsibility for the "Gideon Massacre"), Tigh places blame solely on the pilot, absolving himself from the incident.

=== Fleet Factioning and Adama's Return ===

The shootings, Tigh's decision for martial law, and his unwillingness to discuss anything with anyone except Ellen Tigh (and the unconscious Adama) becomes the dividing point of those wanting to press on to finding Earth, and those wanting to settle on Kobol ([[Season 2 (2005-06)|Season 2]]). Tigh's drinking spirals further out of control, leading to more erratic behavior and causing great concern regarding his ability to effectively command, particularly among the [[CIC]] staff. The situation comes to a head when Roslin, tacitly aided by other officers and crew on ''Galactica'', escapes the brig in an attempt to hide amongst the many ships in the Fleet with the aid of [[Tom Zarek]]. Tigh chases down the escaping Raptor using the [[CAP]], having the Viper fire across the bow of the fleeing Raptor to persuade it to return. The Raptor brazenly continues onward, leading to a crucial decision for the Colonel. Tigh allows the Raptor to escape rather than shooting it down, which would have killed Adama's son and the President and could have destabilized the fleet.
[[image:Flight_of_the_Phoenix-Tigh_Adama.jpg|thumb|left|Tigh and Adama share a knowing smirk at the commissioning of the [[Blackbird]], ''Laura'' ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).]]

Fortunately for the fleet and Colonel Tigh, Commander Adama regains consciousness shortly after the escape and asks what had happened during his absence. Tigh confesses that he has "frakked things up good," but Adama reassures his friend, saying, "I never had much use for people that second-guessed my decisions, especially if they've never held a command. They don't understand the pressure to make a call that affects the lives of thousands, and you have no one to turn to for backup."

Despite all the serious problems that Tigh created, Adama doesn't blame him, telling Tigh that whatever bad calls were made, they would pick up the pieces together ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).

Both Adama (also a rather secular man) and Tigh are astounded at the number of ships that secede from the main fleet to join the [[Laura Roslin faction|faction]] that sought the [[Tomb of Athena]] with President Roslin ([[The Farm]]). Tigh backs up Adama while he maintains a similar official position on Roslin and the separated ships as Tigh has. However, after Adama realizes that survival of the entire Fleet would only come if everyone held together, Adama begins to prepare a journey to Kobol to retrieve the remainder of the Fleet and reach out to Roslin ([[Home, Part I]]). At first Tigh seems to believe that Adama is retrieving the faction by more military means, and scoffs at Roslin's religious views on the quest until he realizes that Adama is beginning to follow Roslin's information, taking her reports and visions seriously. Tigh is left in command while Adama successfully reunites the Fleet and reconciles with Roslin ([[Home, Part II]]).

=== Fallout from the [[Gideon]] Incident ===
After [[William Adama|Adama's]] return to command and Roslin to the presidency, for a moment the ''Gideon'' incident is almost forgotten. Before she is invited to ''Galactica'', reporter [[D'anna Biers]] prepares a story about the incident, which could destroy the public's view towards Tigh, and eventually ''Galactica''. However she drops the subject in favor of a ''Galactica'' documentary.

Lt. [[Joe Palladino|Joe "Hammerhead" Palladino]], the pilot in charge of the boarding operation to ''Gideon'', blames Tigh for the discredit to his reputation. He begins to terrorize Tigh and his wife, but Tigh later manages to subdue Palladino ([[Final Cut]]).

=== ''Pegasus'' Discovered ===

Things once again turn on their head when ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' has a chance encounter with the battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', a modern type of battlestar and the flagship of Admiral [[Helena Cain]]. Cain, being the superior officer, assumes complete command of the Fleet. The naturally suspicious Tigh is wary about this mixed blessing, but takes it in stride like everything else up until now. When he begins to regularly speak with ''Pegasus''’s own XO [[Jack Fisk]], his suspicions slowly prove to be well founded.

Fisk's conscience-clearing sessions with Tigh reveal that Admiral Cain was responsible for a set of atrocities, the most damning being the pillaging and stranding of a small civilian fleet in open space. When Tigh relays this information to Commander Adama, Adama reminisces about their own questionable activities, particularly their actions regarding the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]''. However, Adama keeps Tigh's warnings in mind and they help him in his decision to stand up to Cain later on ("[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]" through "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]").

=== The Election and New Caprica ===
When the Presidential election arrives, Col. Tigh is charged with overseeing the vote tallies on ''Galactica''. When it appears that [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] would win the vote, [[Tory Foster]], President Roslin's aide, approaches Col. Tigh and Petty Officer [[Dualla]] to conspire to steal the election for Roslin, foreseeing certain disaster in a Baltar presidency. Tigh, never a fan of Baltar's to begin with, assists in the deception in order to keep Baltar out of office. The plot is overturned when Lt. [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] later notices the Colonel's suspicious and stand-offish behavior regarding the ballot boxes. Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] lets Tigh and Dualla off the hook and the official vote tallies are "revised" without the public learning of the Roslin campaign's attempt to steal the election.

One year later, after the fleet settles on [[New Caprica]] on the orders of President Baltar, most of the military staff have all but retired from active service. Col. Tigh is one of the few officers still serving aboard ''Galactica'', but the day eventually comes when Admiral Adama discharges his friend and XO from his duties to let him return to civilian life with his wife. On the surface of New Caprica, the couple run into [[Kara Thrace]] at [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] and [[Cally]]'s union rally. The former colonel and captain share an unusually warm embrace, having put their differences behind them at some point in the preceding year, or Thrace being happy to see a familiar face of the ''Galactica'' family. Unfortunately, their reunion does not last as a large Cylon fleet appears in orbit over the planet and the Cylons occupy New Caprica without firing a shot. Tigh and his wife are last seen watching in utter shock as [[Cylon Centurion]]s march through the streets of New Caprica City ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

=== Occupation and Resistance ===
Two months into the occupation of New Caprica by the Cylons, Tigh is organizing and recruiting for [[New Caprica Resistance|the resistance on New Caprica]] along with [[Galen Tyrol]] and [[Jammer]]. When the Cylons begin to find the weapons hidden by the Resistance, Tigh orders them to be stored in the Temple, believing it to be the safest place as the Cylon respect the sanctity of the Temple and will not search it. When the Cylons discover the weapons, [[Nora]] is shot and [[Cally Tyrol]] and her baby barely escape. This leads several members of the [[New Caprica Resistance]] to question whether Tigh is going too far. After Tigh plans an attack that could endanger patients at a hospital, Jammer reports him to the Cylon authorities ([[Battlestar Galactica: The Resistance]]). The Cylons imprison Tigh and physically tear his right eye out. He is badly beaten and put into a small holding cell. Ellen's sexual efforts with [[Cavil]] lead to Tigh's eventual release ([[Occupation]]) though this is later revealed to be a Cylon ruse to blackmail Ellen into collaboration with the Cylons as well as find the location of a high level meeting of the Insurgency.

===Escape from New Caprica and beyond===
[[Image:Saulellen.jpg|Tigh handing Ellen her poisoned drink.|thumb]]Tigh actively participates in the exodus from New Caprica, leading an attack on the shipyard with Galen Tyrol, during which they are aided by Vipers of ''Galactica'''s [[Blue Squadron]].
[[Image:TighAdamaReunion.jpg|thumb|left|Adama welcomes Tigh back on ''Galactica'' ([[Exodus, Part II]]).]]
Following the exodus, he initially resumes his post as the Executive Officer of ''Galactica'', but is unable to conceal his contempt for those who colluded with the Cylons, such as [[Felix Gaeta]]. In a face-off with Admiral Adama, in which the senior officer orders Tigh to "sleep it off", it is clear that the events on New Caprica - most notably, his wife's death - are still adversely affecting Tigh. Following that he spends a lot of time in his quarters trying to cope with what happened to him on New Caprica and is temporarily replaced by [[Karl Agathon]].

He is also the apparent ringleader of the [[The Circle|Circle]], a group of six people authorized by then-President [[Tom Zarek]], charged with bringing collaborators to justice. Thirteen people fall victim to the Circle's mandate, including [[Jammer]] ([[Collaborators]]).

Tigh is reunited with an old comrade, [[Daniel Novacek|Daniel "Bulldog" Novacek]] and tells him the truth of his last mission. Tigh later stops him when Novacek tries to kill Adama in revenge for being the cause of him spending years as a Cylon captive ([[Hero]]).

Tigh also referees the boxing fights organized to boost morale ([[Unfinished Business]]).

He returns to duty during operations to resupply the Fleet's food stores ([[The Passage]]).

When [[Kara Thrace]] dies he is visibly heartbroken ([[Maelstrom]]), showing that he did truly care about her despite their differences, which he had begun to show in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]".

As the Fleet nears the [[Ionian nebula]] and Gaius Baltar's trial begins, Tigh is one of a few people who hear mysterious music on several occasions. When called to testify in court, he shows up drunk. [[Romo Lampkin|Baltar's lawyer]] exploits this vulnerability and forces Tigh to publicly admit that he killed his wife on New Caprica ([[Crossroads, Part I]]).

Saul Tigh, [[Galen Tyrol]], [[Samuel Anders]] and [[Tory Foster]] begin to hear a [[The Music|song]] only they can hear over and over again, driving them to distraction. They eventually come to the realization that they are four of the [[Final Five]] Cylons. For the moment they decide to remain loyal to the Colonials ([[Crossroads, Part II]]).

==Notes==
* Tigh is supposedly a third-generation Colonial soldier. His father was a decorated fighter pilot killed in combat and his grandfather served under President [[Mueller (president)|Mueller]]. Also, Tigh was a published military historian until personal problems became apparent ([[Miniseries]], [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)|deleted scene]]). However, given Tigh's recently-revealed Cylon nature, his family history may be a fabrication. Tigh's interest in military history has probably been retconned out of existence, since it has never been mentioned on screen post-miniseries.
* Tigh's first name has been given as "Paul" on a number of websites. This is based on an early [http://www.twiztv.com/scripts/battlestar/season1/galactica-ms1.pdf version of the script] '''(PDF file)''', which has Adama speaking to "Paul" in their discussion of his fight with Kara Thrace. Since this version of the script has significant differences to the final script, its canonical value is low.
* [[Ronald D. Moore]] has indicated via the [[podcast]] commentary on the episode "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]" that the character's name initially was Paul Tigh. The name, however, had to be changed due to legal issues that Moore was unable to recall in that podcast.
* Tigh is based off the character of Paul Eddington in the movie "[[Wikipedia:In Harm's Way|In Harm's Way]]" portrayed by Kirk Douglas (with John Wayne).
* Tigh's age is one of the only ones which can be accurately deduced. In a [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/202/deleted1.html deleted scene] from [[Valley of Darkness]], we learn that he was serving on the [[Brenik]] when it was boarded during the second year of the Cylon War. Tigh tells us that he was "just a kid. Virgin. Teenager." We know that [[Colonial Day (holiday)|Colonial Day]] is the anniversary of both the unification of the Colonies, and (roughly) the outbreak of the Cylon War (Source: [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/04/index.html#a000025 RDM, April 11, 2005]), and was 52 years ago ([[Colonial Day]]). Thus, Tigh is between 63 and 69 years old at the beginning of season 2. Season Three begins about two years after this conversation.
* In the DVD commentary of "[[Act of Contrition]]", Ron Moore notes that actor [[Michael Hogan]] won the role of Tigh over [[Donnelly Rhodes]], who was one of two other actors vying for the part. Rhodes however went on to play the role of [[Cottle|Dr. Cottle]], ''Galactica'''s CMO.

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown)''|title=Executive Officer of the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=[[Karl Agathon]]}}
{{succession box|before=[[Karl Agathon]]|title=Executive Officer of the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)| Galactica]]'' |after=[[Karl Agathon]]}}
{{end box}}

==References==
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{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Tigh, Saul]]
[[Category:Characters|Tigh, Saul]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Tigh, Saul]]
[[Category:Main Characters (RDM)|Tigh, Saul]]
[[Category:Cylons|Tigh, Saul]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)|Tigh, Saul]]
[[Category:RDM|Tigh, Saul]]

[[de:Saul Tigh]]
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Talk:Saul Tigh/Archive 1

2007-07-18T14:48:30Z

Noindiecred: Info from miniseries deleted scene

==Age?==

The profile states that he is in his "50s" and the article says that he is

:"A veteran in his mid-40s to early 50s"

In the commentary for ''[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]'', [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron Moore]] states that [[William Adama|Adama]] is younger than Tigh, and in addition to this, the fact that the [[Cylon War]] took place 40 years ago would obviously mean that he's <i>probably</i> not in his 50s, and <i>definitely</i> not in his mid-40s. Unless someone can argue against it, I'm changing these portions of the article. --[[User:Palpatine|Palpatine]] 22:26, 26 October 2005 (EDT)

:We're probalby going to get around to removing age information from most of the character articles soon. See [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Citation Jihad]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:31, 27 October 2005 (EDT)

::Even after completely discounting Adama's supposed age of 61 as a reference point, it's still reasonable to assume that both of them are in their 60s, due to reasons I already went into. --[[User:Palpatine|Palpatine]] 23:49, 27 October 2005 (EDT)

:::Well. Remember that the war lasted for about 12 years (the Articles of Colonization were signed 52 years ago, which Moore [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/04/index.html#a000025 says] is coincident with the outbreak of hostilities, the war explicitly ended 40 years ago). If we guess that the age to enlist in the colonial military is 18, and Adama enlisted at the start, that would make him at most 70. If Tigh enlisted in the war's last year, that would make him at least 58.

:::Beyond that, I'm not sure what we can say with much certainty. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:26, 28 October 2005 (EDT)

:::: It might be asserted that joinin' age is lower in the Colonies. Is it not 16 in some European nations? I could be wrong. Of course, heck, the lifespans of Colonials could be vastly different from ours. They drive space ships routinely. They have FLT drives. Surely they have some medical technologies that we don't. Maybe they just live longer. This has no basis whatsoever on anything seen on screen, but it's possible, which means that any guesses we make of age based on the actors' appearences is fairly irrelevant. Of course... 70 would be about right for retiring, wouldn't it? But if Tigh is older, why hadn't he retired already? Or was Adama getting an early retirement? In which case, is 70 an ''early'' retirement? That might speak to Colonial life expectancy. Anyway... most of that is just rambling. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:23, 28 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::Colonial military age is up to debate as Day stated, but we don't have to guess about when Adama joined the military. Moore also said in the same commentary I already referenced that he joined as a pilot in the last days of the war, which we <i>can</i> say with certainty was approximately 40 years ago. Tigh was also specifically said to have been slightly older than, and had seen more combat than Adama. Adding all of this together, we still come to the conclusion that both of them are most likely in their 60s. 10 years is a pretty safe margin of error. --[[User:Palpatine|Palpatine]] 02:09, 29 October 2005 (EDT)

::::::I'll have to double check that. It seems odd for Saul to refer to Bill as "the old man" if he's not at least a few years younger. Another interesting question - in our military, there's usually a provision for forced retirement if you get passed over for promotion for enough years. Does anyone know more about that? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:41, 29 October 2005 (EDT)

My main problem with age (per recent edits) is the lack of consistency between bios. We may be able to get Tigh's down to within a few years, but it's still awfully sloppy, and other pages aren't much better. My edits were based on this thread (now that Peter located it for me). But let consensus rule...calculating ages aren't my specialty. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:27, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:How long is a colonial year anyway? [[User:OTW|OTW]] 19:23, 20 December 2006 (CST)

:: Same as an Earth year. See [[Timeline (RDM)#Notes]]. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 19:31, 20 December 2006 (CST)

==Rating==
According to a deleted scene on the season 2 dvds, Tigh was a petty officer, an assistant gunner's mate, and still a teenager when his ship got boarded. This took place very early in the war and Tigh was still a teenager (more like Cally in age than Tyrol). Also, in the last week of the war, Adama was serving on the Galactica when it was boarded and the Cylons used the same tactics as in Valley of Darkness. Adama told Tigh what happened over a drink and this is how Tigh knew what was happening. In the boarding he was in, he was assigned to guard the ship's magazines. I'll add stuff to the main page later, just wanted to get y'alls opinion on this. It's late.--[[User:Talos|Talos]] 00:53, 27 December 2005 (EST)

:Ricimer and I had an extended conversation about this on [[Talk:Cylon War]] which you may wish to refer to. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:22, 27 December 2005 (EST)
::Thanks, I had missed that. It was just something I noticed while watching my new dvds yesterday. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:38, 27 December 2005 (EST)

== Picture? ==

I'm all for changing the pictures in the template to the promotional thing if the one we had was only so-so, but I really liked Tigh's picture, so... Why go and change them systematically? Anyone else find this somewhat rash? --[[User:Day|Day]] 22:27, 28 December 2005 (EST)

:I changed the character bio photo for consistency with many of the character bios elsewhere that started to use their promo pics. This was completely arbitrary, so if the collective says to use another picture, please do so. I think I was also trying to save it from the Island of Misfit Images, I think. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:01, 23 January 2006 (EST)

::One of them will be a misfit either way (unless we find a place for the other). But I appreciate people looking at and adopting images though... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 22:19, 23 January 2006 (EST)

::: I think consistancy is well and good, but I think consistantly cool photos are better than consistantly "promo" photos. And if we decided to use promo stuff, we'd have to be inconsistant for the more minor characters. --[[User:Day|Day]] 12:17, 24 January 2006 (EST)

::::I concur. Consistantly cool is better than consistantly "promo". Although, in the name of consistancy I wonder if it might be a good idea to establish guidelines on the type of shots we're looking for (on the character project maybe?). Personally, I look for a good 8x10 head and shoulders shot that's at least two hundred pixels wide, that doesn't have any other characters significantly in the shot (to avoid confusion). While a promo standard could be established ("use the promo shot if you've got it"), I think the show is capable of producing shots that are more representative of "the character", and cooler. Also, a character shot that illustrates/represents something in the bio or description might have more value than "actor posing for a promo shot". The promo shots can look a look a lot more polished sometimes, but with the advent of the DVD release and some of the high-resolution captures that are taken today, I think they may be obsolete. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:53, 24 January 2006 (EST)

== Images ==

I feel like we may be going a bit over-board on the number of pics on this page. I've a high-speed connection, but I don't want to alienate dial-up users and I don't want to angery any lawyers by skirting too close to "fair use". If I had to get rid of one, I'd say delete the (very dark) pic near the top with the "If the crew doesn't hate the XO..." quote. It's not a very quality shot.

Secondarily, I feel like the shot of Boomer and Tigh under "Tigh in Command" is huge. It also appears on the [[Scattered]] page, I think it should be replaced with the much-less-tall [[:image:Scattered-Tigh.jpg]]. Now, I may be a bit biased towards that one because I uploaded it, but I also think it displays wonderfully Tigh's overwhelmed feeling upon taking command. What do others think? --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:02, 20 January 2006 (EST)

*I think someone needs to get a screencap in [[Scar]] when Tigh has a really stupid grin on his face while Lt. Thrace walks up to Kat near the end. I might do it when I have a chance, but I don't feel like it right now.--[[User:Deadlygopher|Deadlygopher]] 02:25, 4 February 2006 (EST)

== Occupation and Resistance ==

Since we will probably be adding this section to a lot of characters, is "Occupation and Resistance" OK? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:13, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
: I find this acceptable. What does everyone else have to say? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 18:21, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
::Sounds good to me. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:31, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

== Call Sign ==

I don't know if it is just being skipped over or because it has never been mentioned, but since he did have a run as a Viper Pilot there seems to be no call sign for it. Does anyone know if there is information available as to his call sign? I question this because he is the only person known as a viper pilot who does not have their call sign name. I would recommend that it be added in the sub-profile "Call Sign: Unknown." Even Admiral Adama has his displayed. Thoughts? --[[User:AJFederation|AJFederation]] 15:55, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
: AJ, in response to your question, Tigh's call sign has never been mentioned. So we haven't added it. As for saying "Call Sign:Unknown" in the data box, we don't fill out forms in the databox with things such as unknown. If it is unknown, then the field is left blank and therefore undefined, so as to not clutter the infobox with "unknown"s for things we don't know about. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 16:08, 11 September 2006 (CDT)
::Perhpas we should add this to the [[BW:OC]] page? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 05:08, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

== Rank ==

Clearly he is a Colonel while serving aboard the Galactica. I wonder, however, if he should not have been promoted to General at the after the murder of Fisk (Pegasus Commander who took over after Adm Cain). I am a little fuzzy as to the exact ranking structure for the marines. However, if Tigh is Colonel over the marines on the Galactica and there is no Colonel on the Pegasus does it not make the most sense that he would be promoted to General in the same way that Adama was promoted to Admiral? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 00:09, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

:The rank structure in Galactica is not the same as modern day militaries. "Colonel" is a rank in the fleet, roughly analogous to Captain in the US Navy. The rank structure in BSG has naval and army/airforce ranks mixed in. See [[Military Ranks (RDM)]] for further info. So, in short, no- Tigh should not have been promoted to "General", since that's not a rank in the BSG universe. "Colonel" is the rank generally held by a ship's Executive Officer. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 05:06, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

:: This makes much more sense. My only remaining questions is why was Lee Adama only a major when Adm Adama placed him on the Pegasus? Should not his position be Col for the role he was playing? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 12:44, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

:::Lee he wasn't XO in "The Captain's Hand". He was only sent there to look after Garner and the rest of the crew, but he was never referred to as XO. Garner even told him that he isn't really part of the crew, and there is a deleted scene where Tigh asks Adama if he is still thinking about making Lee XO. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:01, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

:::Not necessarily. Even today, a vessel's master does not need to hold the rank of "Captain" (though he or she will still be called that). By the same token, an Executive Officer does not ''need'' to be a Colonel. Think of it this way- most XO's in today's navies hold the rank of Commander or equivalent, while the CO is a Captain. However, this is not set in stone. A CO may be a Lieutenant Commander, and their XO a Lieutenant. The reason I said that the XO was generally a Colonel is because we've seen two XO's on screen who both held the rank- that doesn't mean that every XO in the Fleet is a Colonel. Does that make sense? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 12:54, 27 September 2006 (CDT)
:::The XO and Commander could even be the same rank, position keeping the chain of command intact. I've seen aircraft carriers where both the Captain and XO are O-6 Captains. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:34, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

:As above. Tigh isn't a Marine just because he has a modern Army/Marine rank. He's in Colonial Fleet like Adama, wears a CF uniform and the next rank for him would be Commander. For NCOs and enlisted the Marines use the same ranks as today. The excact structure of their officer ranks is unknown.--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:25, 27 September 2006 (CDT)

== Ol' One-Eye ==

I'm wondering if we should make mention of the fact that Tigh's been maimed by the Cylons during his time in captivity so that he only has one eye now. This is, of course, assuming that it's true and that it's not "just something" he told Tyrol and Anders to get them going.--<font color="#4b0082">[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]</font> <font color="#2f4f4f">''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''</font> 02:00, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

:Speaking of Tigh's eye, should there be a reference to the Germanic/Norse god Wotan/Woden? I really know very little about mythology, but I read that this god sacrificed his eye so that he could gain wisdom. Fitting? Ironic? Irrelevant? --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 19:14, 2 December 2006 (CST)

== New image ==

Should [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000kp3hg/g248 this] be made the new image, now that Tigh is ol' one-eye? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 17:07, 30 October 2006 (CST)
:I think, given how we can find HD caps for most of the season now, that we should perhaps try and find an image of Tigh in which he looks a bit more composed and with his formal eye-patch and all. If at least so that he looks more respectable and a little less like a one-eyed drunk. Promos for next season will probably have him updated with all the new features he got this last season, but until then I would propose we search for a good and composed Eye-Patched Tigh. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:06, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
::I agree. One possibility is when he returns to duty in "[[The Passage]]". He looks really respectable and formal there. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:16, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:::I found one that I really liked, and placed it there, if at least to replace the other one in the meantime, but I'll keep an eye (no pun) out for more, especially if I find HD caps for the finale, since that had it's fair share of Tigh-Moments. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:36, 18 June 2007 (CDT)

== Position ==

I think someone is jumping the gun a little here. Helo is still the First officer of Galactica, as far as I know, yet the table claims Tigh is the current first officer. Is he and if so when was he reinstated--[[User:Ireboi|Ireboi]] 07:35, 5 December 2006 (CST)

== Outdated ==

This article is severely outdated; it seems it hasn't been updated since "[[The Passage]]", save for one small addition today from "[[Maelstrom]]". Someone should add stuff from "[[The Eye of Jupiter]]" through "[[Crossroads, Part I]]". (Before you start asking why I'm not volunteering, it's 22:30 over here and I noticed the incompleteness of this article on my evening pass.) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 16:27, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
: I imagine that the article would be updated after the end of the season, after which we'll have to go through and concise all the major character articles anyway. (see [[BW:TANK|The think tank for more.]]) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 17:05, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
::True. My point was more that this article has more backlog than most of the bios, which are updated after every episode. Of course this is a season break job, but I wanted to point out that this article has serious backlog, more so than most of the other articles. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 10:24, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

== Info from miniseries deleted scene ==

Should we include this material so prominently in the main article?
:''He is supposedly a third-generation Colonial soldier. His alledged father was a decorated fighter pilot killed in combat and his grandfather served under President Mueller. According to Billy Keikeya, Tigh was a published military historian until personal problems became apparent (Miniseries, deleted scene).''
Since Tigh is a Cylon, the father/grandfather information is false (or at least not what it appears to be). Also, Tigh's interest in military history seems to have been retconned out of the show post-miniseries, just as Adama's father was retconned to being a civil liberties lawyer despite a miniseries deleted scene that implied he was a military man.

Could we move this paragraph to the "notes" section instead? -[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 09:48, 18 July 2007 (CDT)

Adama Glare

2007-07-03T13:19:29Z

Noindiecred: +Doc Cottle immunity note

{{sillypage}}

The '''Adama Glare''' is a formidable weapon in the arsenal of [[William Adama]], superstar. It is an alternative to Bill Adama's other main weapon, the Shield of Disapproval, activated by sudden eye-aversion.

The Adama Glare is most noticeably used on subversives, traitors, [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]], and [[Laura Roslin|rogue presidents]] as well as [[Lee Adama|people close]] [[Kara Thrace|to Adama]] [[Karl Agathon|who have]] [[Galen Tyrol|screwed up]], including family and pilots.

The Adama Glare has the intended effect of accomplishing whatever Bill Adama needs to get done, such as calculating a blind [[FTL|jump]]... ''in his sleep'', defeating a Cylon army... ''with one hand tied'', skinning Cylons... ''for couch leather'', and other astonishing feats. Legend has it that the pulsating red Cylon eye pulsates so as to avoid direct contact with the awesome power of the Adama Glare. The Adama Glare is presumed to be responsible for the conspicuous absence of [[New Caprica]]n wildlife. It is also credited for Bill Adama's ability to bring audiences to tears with his acoustic renditions of [[The Music|"All Along the Watchtower"]].

So far, the only colonial immune to the Adama Glare is [[Cottle|Doc Cottle]], who is able to scowl intensely while making [[The Captain's Hand|important medical decisions]].

==Notes==

* "Sooner or later, the day comes when you can't hide from the Adama Glare." - Bill Adama

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]

The Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game

2007-07-03T13:15:14Z

Noindiecred: /* ...Bill Adama... */ Linking Adama Glare article

{{sillypage}}

''This page relates to heavy drinking (both of characters and wiki contributors) as a result of gaffes from the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]].<br />
''For a drinking game related to the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]], see External links below.''<br />
''Finally, for information that will improve gnashing of your teeth or suicidal tendencies, please watch "[[Galactica 1980]]."''<br/><br/>

[[Image:Tighsdrinking.jpg|thumb|right|300px|Bottoms up, Colonel.]]

Other TV shows have had [[Wikipedia:Drinking game|drinking games]] adapted from the venerable "Hi, Bob!" game, among others. The new "[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]]" series has sadly failed to stop ''Battlestar Wiki's'' contributors from doing the same after noticing repeated plot points, parallels to current events, characterizations, and other silliness.

You might consider creating your own ''Cylon Shooters'' for use in the game by [[Cylon Shooter|following the recipe]] given by actors [[Grace Park]] and [[Tahmoh Penikett]].

<div style="clear: both;"></div>

=='''''Take a drink every time...'''''==

===Someone talks to an "imaginary friend"...===
* [[Gaius Baltar]], in almost every episode with the [[Cylon-Related Hallucinations|virtual Number Six]]
* [[Caprica-Six]], with her virtual ''Gaius Baltar'' ("[[Downloaded]]", "[[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]")
* [[Lee Adama]], with his lost fiancee, [[Gianne]] ([[Black Market]])
* [[Laura Roslin]] to [[Leoben Conoy]] and snakes ("[[Flesh and Bone]]","[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]")
* [[Number Three]] to the [[Final Five]] ([[Hero]], [[Rapture]])
* [[William Adama]] to his late wife, [[Carolanne Adama]] ([[A Day In The Life]])
* [[Dodona Selloi]] to the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|The Lords of Kobol]] and [[God (RDM)|God]] ([[Exodus, Part I]])
* [[Kara Thrace]] to [[Socrata Thrace|her mother]] and [[Leoben Conoy]] ([[Maelstrom]])

=== ...Colonel Saul Tigh... ===
[[Image:Saulellen.jpg|thumb|right|"Consumption of [certain] beverages...may cause health problems."]]
*...drinks alcohol ([[Miniseries]], "[[Fragged]]", "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", etc.).
*...resolves to quit drinking.
*...is drunk on duty ("[[Bastille Day]]", "[[Fragged]]").
*...questions Adama's orders.
*...complains about not wanting his own command ([[Scattered]]).
*...berates someone else for a flaw he has as well ([[Miniseries]]).
*...states or asks the obvious for purposes of exposition ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]).
*...orders someone report "to the brig" ([[Miniseries]], ''others'').
*...asks about shooting people for throwing coffee ([[Resistance_(episode)|Resistance]])
*...gives a remarkably stupid order to the crew.
*''Take a bonus drink if...''
**...a loss of life is involved ("[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]", "[[Exodus, Part II]]").
**...a beloved character needlessly suffers for it ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).
**...[[Lee Adama]] is involved with the order ([[Fragged]]).
**...the Fleet tells him, collectively, to [[frak]] off ([[Fragged]]).
**...Commander Adama has to repair Tigh's frak-ups.
**...Tigh undermines his own reputation as a result ([[Miniseries]], "[[Fragged]]", "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]").

=== ...Ellen Tigh... ===
*...makes sexual advances on someone other than Colonel Tigh ("[[Colonial Day]]", "[[Sacrifice]]", "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]").
*...brokers for power ([[Colonial Day]]).
*...manipulates Colonel Tigh ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]).
*...fraks someone other than Colonel Tigh ("[[Occupation]]")

=== ...Kara Thrace... ===
*...demonstrates yet another talent.
**Card Shark: "And the girl wins again! Another round?" ([[Water]])
**Sniper: "With all due respect, sir, I am the best shot in or out of the cockpit." ([[Bastille Day]])
**Painter: "You paint these, Kara? / Yeah." ([[Valley of Darkness]])
**Pro-level Pyramid Player: "I was scouted for the pros. Bum knee took me out of contention." ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]])
**Poetry Buff: "You wouldn't know Caprican Poetry if it was hot-sidded across your helmet." / "'From the darkness you must fall - Failed and weak, to darkness all.' -[[Kataris]], not one of his better works" ([[Final Cut]])
*...steps out of the box to...
**...mate two Vipers nose-to-nose in combat ([[Miniseries]]).
**...jury-rig an enemy fighter ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).
**...uses an improvised weapon to kill or maim a Cylon ("[[Flesh and Bone]]", "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", "[[The Farm]]", "[[Occupation]]").
**...outwit the Cylons via a clever plan of attack ("[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]").
***''Take a bonus drink if this is because she knows the Cylons would never overlook such an obvious blind spot'' ("[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]").
*...drinks as heavily as Col. Tigh ("[[Scar]]", "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]").
*...assaults someone who outranks her ([[Miniseries]], "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]").
*...is mistaken for a Cylon and nearly killed because of it ("[[You Can't Go Home Again]]", "[[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]", "[[Home, Part I]]", "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]", "[[Crossroads, Part II]]")
*...hops into bed on a barely-considered whim.
**Gaius Baltar ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
**Samuel Anders ([[The Farm]])
**Lee Adama ([[Scar]])
**"Leoben Conoy" (in her mind) ([[Maelstrom]])
*...starts to unduly fawn over someone mere days after meeting them.
**Samuel Anders ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]])
**Admiral Cain ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]", "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II|Part II]]")
*...taunts someone (Just ''pick a frakking episode!'')

===...Lee Adama... ===
*...uses one of his dad's phrases ("Be careful out there", "roll the hard six")
*...completely oversteps his authority and/or commits mutiny
*...acts self-righteous or angsty towards his dad ([[Miniseries]], "[[Bastille Day]]", "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]")
*...has a near-death experience.
**Nearly killed by [[Cylon Raiders]] ([[Miniseries]], "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]")
**Almost left for dead ([[Miniseries]], "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]")
**Almost killed by a criminal mob or elements thereof ("[[Bastille Day]]", "[[Home, Part II]]", "[[Black Market]]").
**Almost killed by [[Cylon Centurion]]s ("[[Valley of Darkness]]", "[[Home, Part I]]")
*...shows angst about anything...anything at all.

===...Kara Thrace and Lee Adama...===
*...stare at each other strangely for non-work-related reasons.
*...exchange blows
*...kiss
**''Take a bonus drink if they both kiss '''''and''''' exchange blows.''
*...[[frak]] ([[Unfinished Business]])

===...Bill Adama...===
*...uses his [[Adama Glare|Glare of Death]].
**''Bonus drink if Cottle deflects it with his own Scowl of Intense Disapproval'' ([[The Captain's Hand]]).
*...stomps down ''Galactica'''s hallways.
*...waxes philosophically.
*...brings up his [[Joseph Adama|lawyer father]].
*...says either "as of this moment" or "moments ago" ([[Miniseries]], "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", "[[Epiphanies]]")
*...expresses sympathy for the Cylons.
*...expresses an enthusiastic attitude toward killing Cylons.
**''Take a bonus drink if it is by trying kill a Cylon himself''
***''Finish the drink completely if he tries to kill the same Cylon he expressed sympathy for in a previous episode.''
*...agrees with, argues with, deposes, or kisses President Roslin.
*...appears on screen sporting a [[Adamastache|moustache]].
**''Take a bonus drink when you see him finally '''shave that frakking thing off!'''''
*...does something "captainly", like crushing walnuts in his hand or building a model ship.
*...uses military action to resolve a situation.
*...makes a reckless or stupid command decision.
**Counterattacking the Cylons ([[Miniseries]])
**Wasting half the fleet's [[tylium|fuel]] looking for Starbuck ([[You Can't Go Home Again]])
**Arresting President Roslin ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])
**Sending Marines to rescue Helo and the Chief from ''Pegasus'' ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]])
**Arranging for the assassination of Admiral Cain ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]])
**Jumping ''Galactica'' into the atmosphere of New Caprica ([[Exodus, Part II]])
**''Bonus drinks if a woman tries to reason with Adama.''
:*Roslin tells Adama, "The war is over, we lost", and "We need to start having babies" ([[Miniseries]])
:*Dualla tells Adama, "It's time to put the fleet back together" ([[Home, Part I]])
:*Roslin tells Adama, "[[Helena Cain|She]] is dangerous, and the only thing that you can do is hit her before she hits you," ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]])
:*Sharon tells Adama, "You said you never asked yourself why you deserve to survive." ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]])
::*''Finish your drink completely when, not if, Adama ultimately relents, echoing that woman's words to his officer(s).''
*...Rolls a "Hard Six"

=== ...Helo ... ===
*...fails to notice his robot girlfriend's glowing spine. ([[Six Degrees of Separation]])
*...fails to realize his inexplicably nauseous robot girlfriend is pregnant ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).
*...shoots his pregnant robot girlfriend ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).
*...lets his pregnant robot girlfriend jack Starbuck's spaceship ([[Scattered]]).
*...is surprised that everyone wants to shoot or throw his pregnant robot girlfriend out an airlock ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]], [[Home, Part I]]).
*...fails to anticipate territory issues with his pregnant robot girlfriend's copy's former boyfriend ([[Home, Part II]]).

=== ...Chief Tyrol... ===
*...fails to notice his robot girlfriend's glowing spine. (off-screen)
*...makes out with a lieutenant against regulations ([[Litmus]]).
*...lies about making out with his robot girlfriend ([[Litmus]]).
*...lies when he says he never loved his robot girlfriend.
*...chews out a member of his crew who dare to show concern about his feelings about his robot girlfriend - or anything else, for that matter ([[Miniseries]], "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]").
*...hits Cally after waking from a suicidal nightmare ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).
*...is proven to be an expert distiller ("[[Litmus]]", "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", "[[Pegasus_(episode)|Pegasus]]").
*...glares at or curses Colonel Tigh.
**...''or anyone else for that matter'' ("If I scratched everyone who popped off at the chief the cooks could be flying the planes" - Lee Adama, "[[Final Cut]]")
* ...stumbles around in a religious trance instead of harvesting the algae so people can eat! ([[The Eye of Jupiter]])

=== ...Dr. Cottle disrespects authority... ===
*...disregards President Roslin's office ([[Act of Contrition]])
*...undermines Adama's authority ("[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", "[[The_Captain's_Hand|The Captain's Hand]]")
*...rebuffs a question from Col. Tigh with profanity ([[Fragged]])
*...ridicules Col. Tigh's command decisions ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]])
*...debates the notion of "do no harm" with [[Number Three]] ([[Precipice]])

===...Zarek makes a gambit for power...===
*...but loses.
**[[Colonial Day]]
**[[Home, Part I]]
**[[Home, Part II]]
*...and succeeds.
**[[Bastille Day]]
**[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]
**[[Collaborators]]

===...a copy of [[Number Six]]...===
====dies... ====
*Nuked ([[Miniseries]], "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]")
**Take another drink if the nuke scene is repeated again in flashback ("[[33]]", "[[Downloaded]]", "[[Taking a Break from All Your Worries]]")
*Shot ([[33]], [[Precipice]])
**Take a bonus drink if she is shot by a fellow Cylon.
*Impaled ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])
*Extinguished ([[The Farm]])
*Bombed ([[Occupation]])
*Choked ([[Torn]])
*Infected ([[Torn]])
*Suffocated ([[A Measure of Salvation]])

==== ...becomes violent or threatens violence...====
*Breaks a baby's neck ([[Miniseries]] as Caprica-Six)
*Screams in Baltar's face ([[Bastille Day]] as Baltar's internal Six)
*Beats the crap out of Caprica-Valerii ([[Litmus]] as [[Number Six#Caprican Overseer Copies|an overseer]])
*Threatens live-donor open heart surgery on Baltar ("As far as I'm concerned, you can have any woman you want. But always remember, I have your heart <nowiki>[...]</nowiki> I can always rip it out of your chest if I have to.") ([[Colonial Day]] as Baltar's internal Six)
*Chokes Baltar ([[Litmus]] as Baltar's internal Six)
*Smashes Baltar's face into a mirror ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]] as Baltar's internal Six)
*Kicks the hell out of Starbuck ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])
*Tackles Baltar ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]] as [[Gina]])
*Breaks a guard's neck ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]] as Gina)
*Shoots Admiral Cain ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]] as Gina)
*Chokes Baltar with his tie ([[Epiphanies]])
*Shoves Baltar and bites his lip ([[Epiphanies]] as Gina)
*Cuts her own face ("[[Downloaded]]" as [[Caprica-Six]])
*Bashes [[Number Three]]'s head in with a rock ("[[Downloaded]]" as [[Caprica-Six]])
*Breaks [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]]'s neck ([[Rapture]]).
*Punches [[Colonel Tigh]] ([[Crossroads, Part I]] as Caprica-Six)
[[Image:Cloud9Destroyed.jpg|thumb|right|Kablooey!]]
''Take two bonus drinks if she goes nuclear.''
*Suicide-bombs ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' ("[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" as Gina)

==== ...[[Cylon-Related Hallucinations#Baltar's Internal Six|Baltar's internal Six]] appears at an inopportune moment... ====
''Take a bonus drink if...''
*...Baltar tries to subtly talk to both Six and real people at the same time (e.g. [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]: "I'm not your plaything!").
**''Take another drink if both Six and the "real" person or people Baltar is talking to respond the same way (e.g. "Plaything?").''
*...Six tries to engage Baltar in either sex or foreplay.
**''Finish your drink if Six '''does''' engage Baltar in sex or foreplay''
*...Baltar makes awkward attempts at excusing his odd behavior.
*...others comment on Baltar's sanity or lack thereof.
*...Six appears while he's in the bathroom.
*...Six appears after he's had sex with another woman.
*...Six appears naked.

=== ...someone kills a baby or threatens to do so. ===
*Caprica-Six ([[Miniseries]])
*Commander [[William Adama|Adama]], in [[Gaius Baltar]]'s dream on [[Kobol (RDM)|Kobol]] ([[Scattered]])
*Laura Roslin ([[Downloaded]], [[Epiphanies]])
*Kara Thrace ([[Occupation]])
*Boomer ([[Rapture]])

=== ...anyone smokes (literally or figuratively)... ===
[[Image:Adama_laura_toke.jpg|thumb|right|[[New Caprican loco weed|Smokin']], smokin', I feel alright, mamma, I'm not jokin, yeah.]]
*Gaius Baltar
*Dr. Cottle
*Kara Thrace
*Specialist [[Prosna]]
*Lee Adama
*[[Socinus]] ([[Scattered]])
*Laura Roslin ([[Unfinished Business]])
*Bill Adama ([[Unfinished Business]])
*Saul Tigh
*Sam Anders

=== ...any male character sticks it in a [[toaster]]... ===
*Helo ([[Six Degrees of Separation]])
*Gaius Baltar ([[Miniseries]], "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]", "[[Hero]]")
*Galen Tyrol ([[Miniseries]], "[[Litmus]]")
*[[Alastair Thorne]]

=== ...People get away with breaking the rules... ===
*Tyrol gets away with his hidden affair with Boomer, even when it leads to a security flaw that allows a Cylon suicide bomber to attack the ship ([[Litmus]])
*Starbuck gets away with stealing and ultimately losing ''Galactica'''s captured Cylon Raider. ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]])
*Boomer gets away with trying to kill herself and ends up on a vitally important mission ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]])
*Baltar gets away with murdering [[Crashdown]] ([[Fragged]])
*Apollo gets away with pulling a gun on Tigh ([[Scattered]]) and helping Roslin escape ([[Home, Part II]])
*Helo gets away with pulling a gun on Apollo ([[Home, Part I]])
*President Roslin ultimately gets away with subverting the boundary between military and civilian government ([[Home, Part II]]).
*Commander Adama ultimately gets away with subverting the boundary between military and civilian government ([[Litmus]], [[Home, Part II]]).
*[[Kat]] gets away with getting high on drugs during flight (reinstated in "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]")
*Starbuck gets away with (and gets promoted for) stealing the Blackbird to fly a photo recon mission that her CAG specifically took her off of ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]])
*Lee Adama gets away with law enforcement by summary execution ([[Black Market]])
*Lee gets away with making repeated visits to a prostitute ([[Black Market]])
*Kat gets away with punching Starbuck in the mouth ([[Scar]])
*Lee gets away with an affair with Dee, a fellow active duty soldier ([[The Captain's Hand]])
*Tyrol gets away with beating the crap out of someone with nothing more than a stern talking from a [[Cavil|priest]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]])
*[[The Circle]] gets away with summarily executing 14 people ([[Collaborators]])
*[[Helo]] is not investigated after he asphyxiates the military assets, infected Cylons, that were going to be used to eliminate the Cylons as a threat to humanity ([[A Measure of Salvation]])
**Take a bonus drink if he confesses it and still isn't punished.
*[[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] merely gets punched for trying to kill [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] with a fountain pen ([[Taking a Break From All Your Worries]]).

===Miscellaneous===
*...a prayer or speech includes or ends with "So Say We All!"
::If "So Say We All!" is said once, then repeated by a group, only one drink is required for that pair of utterances.
*...[[God (RDM)|God]], one of the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|Gods]], or a specific [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|God]] is referenced. (i.e. "[[Great Mother of Artemis]]!" or "Procreation is one of God's commandments.")
*...Roslin throws (or threatens to throw) a Cylon out the airlock.
*...Roslin uses her Stare of You-Gotta-Be-Frakking-Kidding-Me.
*...[[Billy Keikeya|Billy]] and [[Anastasia Dualla|Dee]] stare at each other like two teenagers but never actually do anything.
*...Gaeta says, "Yes, sir." or "Aye, sir." (''On this one, alone, most of us would need a "commercial break"'' after one episode...)
*...Apollo's modesty is thwarted by the smallest towel in the fleet.
*...[[Jammer]] says something that hints that he may be a Cylon.
*...Roslin comes up with some vague mystical interpretation of the Fleet's travails.
*...Elosha comes up with some vague mystical interpretation of Roslin's travails.
*...Six comes up with some vague mystical interpretation of Baltar's travails.
*...Leoben comes up with some vague mystical interpretation of Starbuck's travails.
*...A Cylon says "By your command".
*...Someone gets promoted (Just ''pick an episode''.)
**Take two drinks if someone is promoted twice in one episode (Major Lee Adama to Commander Lee Adama in "[[The Captain's Hand]]").
*...[[CIC]] bursts into applause. ([[Miniseries]], "[[Water]]", "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]", "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|Hand of God]]", "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", "[[The Farm]]", "[[Home, Part I]]", "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]")
**Bonus drink if the applause precedes an assassination attempt ("[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]")
*...A never-before-seen guest star turns out to be a Cylon
**[[Simon]] ([[The Farm]])
**[[Number Three]] / D'anna Biers ([[Final Cut]])
**[[Cavil]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]], [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])
*...a Cylon refers to not seeing someone at a Cylon meeting or party ([[Cylon-Related_Hallucinations#Baltar's_Internal_Six|Baltar's Internal Six]] in the [[Miniseries]], [[Cavil]] in "[[Lay_Down_Your_Burdens,_Part_I|Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]")
*...Every time the ''[[Space Park]]'' appears in a background shot of [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]].
::Everyone must stand and yell "Space Park!" after drinking.
:::If the ''Space Park'' and [[Grace Park]] appear in the same episode, everyone must go to a park once the show is over.

===Production===
[[Image:Combatlanding2.jpg|thumb|200px|And they land the same way EVERY TIME! That's skill, I tell ya.]]
*...Michael Rymer's camera makes a full 360° revolution.
**''In this case, everyone in the room must spin around until the scene is over.''
*...Michael Rymer cross-cuts between two nearly identical scenes. ("[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]")
**''In this case, link arms with someone else and take a shot together.''
*...the producers re-use stock special effects footage.
**...when you spot the "USS Enterprise" lurking in the Fleet.
**...an establishing shot of ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' from the side, surrounded by the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]].
**...an establishing shot of ''Galactica'' from the top.
**...an establishing shot of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' from the side.
**...the civilian fleet jump from the [[Miniseries]].
**...the Viper Launch sequence.
**...the Viper [[Combat landing|Combat Landing]] sequence. (numerous episodes)
**...''Take another drink if the the stock footage leads to logic gaps.''

===Music===
*...Bear McCreary re-uses musical themes.
**The Number Six/Cylon [[Wikipedia:leitmotif|leitmotif]] ("ding..ding-ding..ding, ding...ding-ding...ding...")
**"Bloodshed" (the Adama death theme from "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]") in "[[The Farm]]", "[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]", "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" and "[[Exodus, Part II]]"
**"Prelude to War" in the "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" battle sequence
**The "Destiny/Baltar's Dream" leitmotif
**Starbuck's theme ("Starbuck on the Red Moon")
*...Bear McCreary finds some excuse to use the Stu Phillips theme from the original series ("Colonial Anthem").
**[[Miniseries]] (twice)
**[[Final Cut]]
*...Bear McCreary re-uses music from Richard Gibbs' [[Miniseries]] soundtrack.
*...Bear McCreary throws in some new musical influences out of nowhere.
**Hindu prayer - UK/Season Two opening
**Celtic folk song - "Wander My Friends" / "A Good Lighter" / "Reuniting the Fleet"
**Italian pseudo-opera - "Battlestar Operatica"
**Elevator music - "Battlestar Muzaktica"
**Heavy metal - "Standing in the Mud" / "Black Market"
**Orchestral piece - "The Shape of Things to Come" / "Passacaglia" / "Allegro" / "A Promise to Return"
**Electric Violin / Thundering Bass - "Destiny" / "Baltar's Dream"
**Classical Violin - "Roslin and Adama" / "Roslin Confesses"
**Piano - "Metamorphosis Five" / "One Year Later"
**Guitar solo - "Pegasus" / "Something Dark is Coming"
**[[The Music|Bob Dylan]] - "Crossroads, Part II"
***Finish your drink and go [[New Caprican loco weed|get high]] with [[Final Five|four of your closest friends]].

==Official Statements==

From a ''Rolling Stone'' September 2006 Magazine interview of [[Katee Sackhoff]]

:"Four years ago, I had older men and twelve-year-olds coming up to me," she says. "Now I get sorority girls telling me, 'We watch the show and drink every time you say "frak," hit someone or sleep with someone.' And I'm thinking, 'This is why I didn't go to college.'"

==External links==
* A drinking game for the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] can be found [http://www.ringthis.com/tv_drinking_games/batlstar.htm here].

[[Category:A to Z|Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game, The]]
[[Category:Silly Pages|Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game, The]]
[[Category:RDM|Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game, The]]

{{featured article candidate previous}}

Talk:Apple iPatch/Archive 1

2007-06-29T03:41:16Z

Noindiecred: /* Silly consensus */

I never seen him with a music device nore anyone else in the series. [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 20:24, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

==Silly consensus==
* {{Neutral}} - I see where you're going, what with the new Apple iPhone coming out and all. I'm just not sure this makes the cut. I am notoriously softhearted towards Silly pages, but Neutral is about as far as I can go on this one. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 21:02, 28 June 2007 (CDT)
* {{Oppose}} - even though I made it. The joke is more than a little thin. It was a moment of weakness and, as such, I apologize :) -[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 22:41, 28 June 2007 (CDT)

Guerilla Booze-Catcher

2007-06-29T00:19:00Z

Noindiecred:

{{sillypage}}

'''Guerilla Booze-Catcher''' refers to the beard worn by [[Saul Tigh]] during his leadership of the [[New Caprica Resistance|Resistance]] on [[New Caprica]].

"Booze-catcher" is a colloquial term for a [[wikipedia:beard|beard]], particularly apt when applied to Tigh, who has spent an inordinate amount of time at the bottom of various bottles. Another common variant is "soup-catcher".

==See also==

* [[William Adama|Adama's]] [[Adamastache]]
* [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar's]] [[Sexy Treason Stubble]]
* [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol's]] [[Beard of Organized Labor]]
* [[Saul Tigh|Tigh's]] [[Apple iPatch]]
{{Stub}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]

Doyle Franks

2007-06-21T21:43:09Z

Noindiecred: /* Notes */

{{Character Data
|name=Doyle Franks
|photo= Franks.jpg
|seen=Crossroads, Part I
|role=Captain of ''[[Prometheus]]'', Judge
|actor=Susan Hogan
}}

'''Doyle Franks''', captain of ''[[Prometheus]]''<ref>The [[:Image:PatchPrometheus.jpg|patch]] on her uniform shows the ship's name</ref>, is one of the five [[the Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] captains chosen at random by [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] to be a judge for the trial of [[Gaius Baltar]] ([[The Son Also Rises]]).

During Baltar's trial, she is given the status of head judge ([[Crossroads, Part I]]) and is responsible for delivering the tribunal's non-guilty verdict, much to the outrage of many of the trial's civilian observers ([[Crossroads, Part II]]).

== Notes ==

* It is ironic that the captain of the most lawless ship in the fleet should wind up head judge in the most important legal case in the fleet's history.
* Franks's first name, Doyle, is not mentioned in dialogue, but is seen in the credits.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{stub}}

[[Category: A to Z|Franks, Doyle]]
[[Category: Characters|Franks, Doyle]]
[[Category: Characters (RDM)|Franks, Doyle]]
[[Category: One-Shot Characters (RDM)|Franks, Doyle]]
[[Category: RDM|Franks, Doyle]]

The Ties That Bind

2007-06-21T21:37:18Z

Noindiecred: /* Notes */ Possible source of episode title

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| image=
| title= The Ties That Bind
| season= 4
| episode= 3
| guests=
| writer=
| story=
| director=
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate=
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population=
| prev= [[Six of One]]
| next=
}}

== Overview ==
'''"The Ties That Bind"'''<ref name="sidesexpress">Originally posted on [http://www.sidesexpress.com/se_index.cfm?locid=5&task=type&l=5&c=battlestar#sr GoBetween Inc.], a [[:Image:GoBetween210607.jpg|screenshot]] is available on Battlestar Wiki Media, because the data isn't available forever.</ref> is the (yet unconfirmed) working title of the third [[Season 4]] episode.

== Summary ==

=== Teaser ===

=== Act 1 ===

=== Act 2 ===

=== Act 3 ===

=== Act 4 ===

== Notes ==

*A [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]] delegate is to be cast, suggesting a possible appearance of the [[Quorum of Twelve (RDM)|Quorum of Twelve]], or at least part of it.<ref name="sidesexpress"/>
*Like [[He That Believeth In Me]], this episode's title is derived from Christian traditions; [[w:Blessed Be The Tie That Binds|Blessed Be the Tie that Binds]] is a Protestant hymn celebrating the unity that comes from love.

== Analysis ==



== Questions ==



== Noteworthy Dialogue ==




== Official Statements ==






== Guest Stars ==



== External Links ==

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:RDM]]

User talk:JubalHarshaw

2007-06-20T12:22:26Z

Noindiecred:

== Welcome to Battlestar Wiki! ==
Welcome to the Wiki, JubalHarshaw. Feel free to tell us about yourself on [[User:JubalHarshaw|your user page]]. Before you get started on other edits, please read the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|Standards and Conventions]], which details the policies we use in editing pages (this differs from many other wikis in its particular use of verb tense, abbreviations, formatting, and the like). If you need help in learning how to use the MediaWiki tools supported here, you can check out the [[BW:TUT|tutorial]] and the [[BW:MARK|wiki markup code]] pages for assistance.

Please read the articles [[Battlestar Wiki:What is Battlestar Wiki|"What is Battlestar Wiki"]] and [[Battlestar Wiki:What Battlestar Wiki is not|"What Battlestar Wiki is Not."]] This important information details what contributions are acceptable in this encyclopedia.

We encourage you to participate in any [[Battlestar Wiki:Project List|projects]] on Battlestar Wiki, which work to enhance a particular subject or extension of the wiki. These include the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|Original Series Article Development Project]] and several [[Battlestar Wiki:Translation Project|language translations of Battlestar Wiki]]. If you have a new idea for a new project, visit the [[BW:TANK|Think Tank]], where we hash out large-scale ideas before implementing them.

Also, if you have any questions or suggestions you wish to offer, please feel free to do so either on an article's talk page that's relevant to the subject, the [[Battlestar Wiki:Wikipedian Quorum|Wikipedian Quorum]] or [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|the Administrators' noticeboard]]. Remember to sign your posts on any talk pages using four tildes (~~~~)!

We look forward to your contributions to the community!
--[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 12:36, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

== Thanks for the Cleanup ==

With 1,700 articles to patrol, the admins (myself included) thank you for helping us in consistency with the minor edits you've done. It's much appreciated. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:48, 26 December 2006 (CST)
:Word. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:43, 26 December 2006 (CST)
::Glad to help, and thanks for the kudos. Please let me know if you see anything that's incorrect or inconsistent in my edits and I'll be sure to clean them up. Generally I just look at other articles in the category (or, at the more fleshed-out RDM episode articles when dealing with the TOS episodes, etc.) to get a feel for the standards and layouts to follow. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 14:53, 27 December 2006 (CST)
:::Ditto. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 15:11, 27 December 2006 (CST)

== You are among the Trusted ==

Per [[BW:MOVE|your page move request]] and policy qualifications, you are now among the Trusted Users of the Sponge. Use your powers wisely. Maybe someday you'll become a member of the [[Mop Boy|Order of the Mop]] or Squeegee. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:10, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
: Thanks much, Spencerian! I'm honored, and I'll be worthy of the Trust! [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 17:13, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

== {{tl|bsgwiki term}} ==

I created before. I forgot to tell people about it. :-D [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 14:01, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
: Thanks Shane! Whatever the need, Shane has the breed (of template, that is!) :) [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 14:06, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

== Take the Red Mop ==

[[Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship/JubalHarshaw|Take the red mop]], and we will show you how deep the rabbit hole goes (and how much Pine Sol will fill it). '''You're a nominee for adminship.''' State your case on the page! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:25, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

== GTalk ==

Sent you an invite. [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 23:41, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

== Earth... ==

Do all the TOS ones.. and I can have the replace bot go through and do it automatically for the RDM ones... ;-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 23:18, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
:You don't have to do the RDM ones. I think TOS is ready, so we can have Shane activate the bot. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 08:24, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
::Sounds good. I was just hitting a few of the quotes, they're not categorized, so I wasn't sure if the bot would hit them or not. Thanks. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 08:27, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
:::I believe the bot sees everything. Anyway, I'll let Shane know he can let loose the bot on the [[Earth]] links as well. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 08:30, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

==TOS template==
Can you please stop adding the {{tl|TOS}} to original series articles. The template is not yet ready to be rolled out to pages yet and even when its finished testing we will get a bot to do all the changes not done manually. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:03, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
: Sure, sorry. I just saw it on a of TOS number of pages already when I was looking around last night and thought it was ready for prime time. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 08:32, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
::A few people jumped the gun last night as began adding it to TOS pages but its still not properly ready yet which is why people had stopped adding them. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 08:46, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

== Please congratulate JubalHarshaw! ==

You are now The One...OK, OK, you're one of many, [[Mop Boy]]! Congratulations on your promotion! Here is a link [[w:Wikipedia:Administrators' how-to guide|that may help you with the extra tools]] you have access to in the toolbar and the Special pages area. Most of them apply here. Be sure to read through policies to refresh them in your mind; it's important to know them well. Good luck. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:10, 21 April 2007 (CDT)<sup>([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contrib Skillz]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|Edit Skillz]])</sup>
:Congrats ;) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 15:14, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

== Blog? ==

Do you have an user account on the blog? [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 13:49, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
:I've now registered there. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 14:38, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

== Bug/Issue with Template:User_Data ==

Hiya, thanks for the welcome, but I noticed something of an...error? with the user data template - ''"gender: Male or Female. This option will also place you in '''Category:Male Wikipedians''' or '''Category:Female Wikipedians'''."'' - that shouldn't really be "Wikipedians", should it (neither the categories themselves nor where the template places people)? I mean...this isn't Wikipedia, so...:) hope this is a helpful thing to point out, anyway. Take care! [[User:Marianne|Marianne]] 10:26, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
:Yeah, I wondered about that as well when I wrote the gender thing, but since [[:Category:Wikipedians]] already existed, I decided to go with that. I've brought up the issue on [[Category talk:Wikipedians]], please continue discussion there. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 11:08, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
::Hi Marianne. I'd never really thought about that, as I consider anyone who contributes to ''any'' Wiki (Wikipedia or otherwise) a "Wikipedian". :) Let's see what the consensus is in the discussion Catrope mentions above. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 12:14, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

== Bathtub cylon ==

Thanks! It just sort of came to me. I really should contribute more often :) [[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 07:21, 20 June 2007 (CDT)

User:Noindiecred

2007-06-20T12:22:02Z

Noindiecred:

===My wishlist for [[Season 4]]===

*Dwight Schrute crossover. (Of course, the perfect time for this would have been mid-season 3, to help with the [[The Passage|paper shortage]].)
*Scott Bakula cameo. Preferably, he'd walk across the set and see Cavil. "Al, I don't understand," he'd say, alarmed. "Why haven't I leaped yet?" Cavil would think about this a moment, then pull out a gun and shoot him.
*LOLbattalstar. That pretty much explains itself.

User talk:JubalHarshaw

2007-06-20T12:21:09Z

Noindiecred: Bathtub cylon

== Welcome to Battlestar Wiki! ==
Welcome to the Wiki, JubalHarshaw. Feel free to tell us about yourself on [[User:JubalHarshaw|your user page]]. Before you get started on other edits, please read the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|Standards and Conventions]], which details the policies we use in editing pages (this differs from many other wikis in its particular use of verb tense, abbreviations, formatting, and the like). If you need help in learning how to use the MediaWiki tools supported here, you can check out the [[BW:TUT|tutorial]] and the [[BW:MARK|wiki markup code]] pages for assistance.

Please read the articles [[Battlestar Wiki:What is Battlestar Wiki|"What is Battlestar Wiki"]] and [[Battlestar Wiki:What Battlestar Wiki is not|"What Battlestar Wiki is Not."]] This important information details what contributions are acceptable in this encyclopedia.

We encourage you to participate in any [[Battlestar Wiki:Project List|projects]] on Battlestar Wiki, which work to enhance a particular subject or extension of the wiki. These include the [[Battlestar Wiki:Original Series Article Development Project|Original Series Article Development Project]] and several [[Battlestar Wiki:Translation Project|language translations of Battlestar Wiki]]. If you have a new idea for a new project, visit the [[BW:TANK|Think Tank]], where we hash out large-scale ideas before implementing them.

Also, if you have any questions or suggestions you wish to offer, please feel free to do so either on an article's talk page that's relevant to the subject, the [[Battlestar Wiki:Wikipedian Quorum|Wikipedian Quorum]] or [[Battlestar Wiki:Administrators' noticeboard|the Administrators' noticeboard]]. Remember to sign your posts on any talk pages using four tildes (~~~~)!

We look forward to your contributions to the community!
--[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 12:36, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

== Thanks for the Cleanup ==

With 1,700 articles to patrol, the admins (myself included) thank you for helping us in consistency with the minor edits you've done. It's much appreciated. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:48, 26 December 2006 (CST)
:Word. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 20:43, 26 December 2006 (CST)
::Glad to help, and thanks for the kudos. Please let me know if you see anything that's incorrect or inconsistent in my edits and I'll be sure to clean them up. Generally I just look at other articles in the category (or, at the more fleshed-out RDM episode articles when dealing with the TOS episodes, etc.) to get a feel for the standards and layouts to follow. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 14:53, 27 December 2006 (CST)
:::Ditto. :-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 15:11, 27 December 2006 (CST)

== You are among the Trusted ==

Per [[BW:MOVE|your page move request]] and policy qualifications, you are now among the Trusted Users of the Sponge. Use your powers wisely. Maybe someday you'll become a member of the [[Mop Boy|Order of the Mop]] or Squeegee. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:10, 9 April 2007 (CDT)
: Thanks much, Spencerian! I'm honored, and I'll be worthy of the Trust! [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 17:13, 9 April 2007 (CDT)

== {{tl|bsgwiki term}} ==

I created before. I forgot to tell people about it. :-D [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 14:01, 10 April 2007 (CDT)
: Thanks Shane! Whatever the need, Shane has the breed (of template, that is!) :) [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 14:06, 10 April 2007 (CDT)

== Take the Red Mop ==

[[Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship/JubalHarshaw|Take the red mop]], and we will show you how deep the rabbit hole goes (and how much Pine Sol will fill it). '''You're a nominee for adminship.''' State your case on the page! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:25, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

== GTalk ==

Sent you an invite. [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 23:41, 14 April 2007 (CDT)

== Earth... ==

Do all the TOS ones.. and I can have the replace bot go through and do it automatically for the RDM ones... ;-) [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 23:18, 15 April 2007 (CDT)
:You don't have to do the RDM ones. I think TOS is ready, so we can have Shane activate the bot. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 08:24, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
::Sounds good. I was just hitting a few of the quotes, they're not categorized, so I wasn't sure if the bot would hit them or not. Thanks. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 08:27, 16 April 2007 (CDT)
:::I believe the bot sees everything. Anyway, I'll let Shane know he can let loose the bot on the [[Earth]] links as well. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 08:30, 16 April 2007 (CDT)

==TOS template==
Can you please stop adding the {{tl|TOS}} to original series articles. The template is not yet ready to be rolled out to pages yet and even when its finished testing we will get a bot to do all the changes not done manually. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 03:03, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
: Sure, sorry. I just saw it on a of TOS number of pages already when I was looking around last night and thought it was ready for prime time. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 08:32, 19 April 2007 (CDT)
::A few people jumped the gun last night as began adding it to TOS pages but its still not properly ready yet which is why people had stopped adding them. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 08:46, 19 April 2007 (CDT)

== Please congratulate JubalHarshaw! ==

You are now The One...OK, OK, you're one of many, [[Mop Boy]]! Congratulations on your promotion! Here is a link [[w:Wikipedia:Administrators' how-to guide|that may help you with the extra tools]] you have access to in the toolbar and the Special pages area. Most of them apply here. Be sure to read through policies to refresh them in your mind; it's important to know them well. Good luck. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:10, 21 April 2007 (CDT)<sup>([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contrib Skillz]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|Edit Skillz]])</sup>
:Congrats ;) --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 15:14, 21 April 2007 (CDT)

== Blog? ==

Do you have an user account on the blog? [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 13:49, 8 May 2007 (CDT)
:I've now registered there. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 14:38, 8 May 2007 (CDT)

== Bug/Issue with Template:User_Data ==

Hiya, thanks for the welcome, but I noticed something of an...error? with the user data template - ''"gender: Male or Female. This option will also place you in '''Category:Male Wikipedians''' or '''Category:Female Wikipedians'''."'' - that shouldn't really be "Wikipedians", should it (neither the categories themselves nor where the template places people)? I mean...this isn't Wikipedia, so...:) hope this is a helpful thing to point out, anyway. Take care! [[User:Marianne|Marianne]] 10:26, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
:Yeah, I wondered about that as well when I wrote the gender thing, but since [[:Category:Wikipedians]] already existed, I decided to go with that. I've brought up the issue on [[Category talk:Wikipedians]], please continue discussion there. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 11:08, 19 June 2007 (CDT)
::Hi Marianne. I'd never really thought about that, as I consider anyone who contributes to ''any'' Wiki (Wikipedia or otherwise) a "Wikipedian". :) Let's see what the consensus is in the discussion Catrope mentions above. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 12:14, 19 June 2007 (CDT)

== Bathtub cylon ==

Thanks! I just sort of came to me. I really should contribute more often :) [[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 07:21, 20 June 2007 (CDT)

User:Noindiecred

2007-06-20T12:19:44Z

Noindiecred:

My wishlist for [[Season 4]]

*Dwight Schrute crossover. (Of course, the perfect time for this would have been mid-season 3, to help with the [[The Passage|paper shortage]].
*Scott Bakula cameo. Preferably, he'd walk across the set and see Cavil. "Al, I don't understand," he'd say, alarmed. "Why haven't I leaped yet?" Cavil would think about this a moment, then pull out a gun and shoot him.
*LOLbattalstar. That pretty much explains itself.

User:Noindiecred

2007-06-19T15:03:28Z

Noindiecred: Removing all content from page

Spot the Cylon

2007-06-19T14:07:44Z

Noindiecred:

{{sillypage}}

__NOTOC__

When dealing with [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]], it is very important to know how to '''Spot the Cylon'''. Being able to Spot the Cylon is of the most vital importance! It can make the difference between life and a very boring speech about [[God|monotheism]].

==Metal Cylons==
[[image:Centurion_armor_old.jpg|right|60px]]
[[Centurion|Some Cylons]] are metal. These Cylons should be easy to spot. Note the metallic skin and the lack of two eyes. Look to your right! There's one. Did you spot the Cylon? Very good.

Remember, these Cylons are mostly harmless, but will bite if you do not keep your fingers clear.

==Airplane Cylons==
[[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Some Cylons]] fly. These Cylons are harder to spot. They look almost, but not quite entirely, nothing like [[wikipedia:Cadbury's Creme Egg|Cadbury Eggs]] with pointy bits on the outside and smooth creamy badness on the inside. If you see hundreds of these flying at you, despair not. They are quite easy to kill.

==Humano-Cylons<ref>This is a deprecated Battlestar Wiki [[Battlestar_Wiki:Descriptive_term|descriptive term]]. It has been replaced by [[Humanoid Cylon]], but is left here for silliness, and as an homage. See the historical teeth-gnashing [[Battlestar_Wiki_talk:Standards_and_Conventions/Archive02#Replacement_and_retirement_of_the_term_.22Humano-Cylon.22|here]].</ref>==
[[image:Number_Six_promo.jpg|left|100px]]
Some Cylons look like humans. ''Uh-oh.'' These Cylons are much more difficult to spot. But do not despair! Even if they appear to be human, there are still several sure-fire methods to '''Spot the Cylon'''.

===Flashlight===
Humano-Cylons do not like [[flashlight]]s. Waving a flashlight at a Cylon might cause it to react poorly.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Call it a Toaster===
Humano-Cylons do not like being called [[toaster]]s. Interestingly, toasters do not like being called Cylons. While calling a toaster a Cylon might involve your toast being over-done, calling a Cylon a toaster might involve you being over and done.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Hot Mamas===
[[Image:Cylon_Centurion_New_002.jpg|right|90px]]
All Humano-Cylons are either hot mamas or complete studs. One of them resembles a young [[Aaron Doral|Kevin Spacey]]. We understand if you don't much care for Brother [[Cavil]]— he is, after all, that most rare of breeds, an honest atheist priest (you may have noticed most atheist priests are not honest).

If you think metal Cylons are hot, no one likes you— sicko.
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Glowing Spines===
[[Image:6spine-ms.jpg|left|90px]]
When in the process of knocking up a Humano-Cylon, the Humano-Cylon's spine glows red (Note: this is a good reason to install mirrors on ceilings). Although it would seem like it might be difficult to seduce a hot mama Cylon, take heart! This is not true! This brings us to our next point:
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Cylons Are Sluts===
It is ridiculously easy to seduce a Cylon. Even complete nerds like [[Helo]] can seduce a [[Sharon Agathon|Cylon]]. Hang in there!

You might even get really lucky and score the grand prize: a [[Hero|threesome]] with [[Six]] and [[Three]] ... of course, you'll have to betray the entire human race not [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|once]], but [[Occupation|twice]], as well as suffer horrific [[A Measure of Salvation|torture]] beforehand. Oh well; no pain, no gain ... right?

<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Twins===
Some Cylons are twins of each other. If you see a set of hot mama or complete stud twins standing next to each other, chances are they are Cylons! Commence shooting on sight. If you are mistaken, blame the [[chamalla]]. You'll probably get away with it. If you don't, don't worry, it's not the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|end of the world]].
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Bathtub Cylons===
[[Image:Hybrid.jpg|left|100px]]
A few Cylons like to live in bathtubs. If you see a person in a bathtub, ask a question. If the answer is "the eye of the husband of the eye of the cow," you are dealing with a Cylon. Don't worry, these Cylons [[The Eye of Jupiter|don't get a vote]].<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Radiation===
There's this [[Cylon detector|atomic bomb radiation thing]]. But who has time for that?
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

===Music===
If you notice people wandering around in a daze, claiming to hear [[The Music|music]] that does not exist, prime up the nearest [[airlock]] or [[launch tube]] and give them the "[[Jammer]] Treatment". Make the [[Laura Roslin|President]] proud!
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==KITT==
[[Image:Kitt.jpg|right|200px]]
[[w:KITT|Some Cylons]] are cars. It is recommended that you kill this model on sight, preferably with something very heavy, fast, and with 18 wheels.

[http://www.pvponline.com/article/3099/wed-jan-24 Other sources] confirm that this car is very naughty, indeed.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{quality article}}
{{featured article candidate previous}}

Messengers

2006-12-08T02:14:25Z

Noindiecred: /* Number Three's dreams and vision */

[[image:Tigh_Me_Up_Tigh_Me_Down-Baltar_Six.jpg|thumb|Number Six and [[Gaius Baltar]] in his lab aboard ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''.]]
==Baltar's Internal Six==
Fleeing Caprica City and then the planet itself, Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] is shocked to discover that [[Caprica-Six|the woman he had a relationship with on Caprica]] lives on - inside his head.

At first he tries to dismiss her presence as a manifestation of his own guilt over what has happened to his people, and his role in it. However, Six suggests that she is in fact a controlled hallucination resulting from a chip she implanted inside his head. However, while some of her actions - such as terrifying Baltar into constructing a genuine [[Cylon detector]] ([[Bastille Day]]) - very much suggest she is a part of his own psyche, this is countered by her underlying actions and deeds, all of which represent a furtherance of those aims and goals she expressed as a corporeal entity. Some of these are characteristics never witnessed by Baltar himself - such as her jealous reaction to [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]]'s visit with Baltar in his lab ([[Flesh and Bone]]), which closely mirrors the jealousy [[Six#Caprican_Overseer_Copies|she]] shows towards the [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Valerii copy on Caprica]] ([[Litmus]], [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

Her existence as a personality download within Baltar's brain is a view he himself comes to embrace, as he relies more and more on her for guidance and insight into Cylon ways - so much so that she deliberately suggests that her presence within him is something of which other Cylons have no knowledge. However, in her relentless drive to get Baltar to fully accept the Cylon concept of God, it certainly '''seems''' for a time that not only are other Cylons in the fleet aware of her "existence", they are in communication with her: hence the arrival of "Shelly Godfrey" onboard ''[[Galactica]]'' with her accusations of treachery at the precise time Six ceases to communicate with Baltar.
[[image:brainscan.jpg|left|Baltar receives his brain scan from Dr. Cottle, as Six looks on in amusement.|thumb]]

When Baltar begins to deny Six's actual existence, she turns the tables on him by assuming a more 'natural' appearance and telling him that he is, indeed, "crazy" ([[Home, Part II]]). Baltar asks Dr. [[Cottle]] to perform a brain scan to check for anything unusual. "Nothing, nothing, more nothing" is the gruff diagnosis from Cottle. However, later in the same episode Baltar comes to believe that the Six he sees could could not possibly be a hallucination caused by him going "crazy", because she seems to know things (such as that [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] was pregnant) that his subconscious mind has no way of knowing. When confronted with this, Six agrees that she is not a product of Baltar's mind, although scans show no chip in his brain. When Baltar asks her what she really was, Six only replies that "I'm an angel of God sent here to protect you, to guide you and to love you". While Baltar may not have a conventionally visible chip in his head, it could conceivably be organically-based (like the [[Cylon agent]]s) and indistinguishable from other tissues in his brain or central nervous system. There was thought by many to be a remote chance that Baltar could be a Cylon agent himself (see the [[Cylon agent speculation]] article for arguments for and against Baltar as a Cylon agent), but later episodes have all but disproven this.

[[image:KobolHallu.jpg|thumb|Hallucinations on Kobol.]]
Not only does Baltar's former lover appear to him as herself in the context of his physical surroundings, but she can also make him see or experience an environment which is not real. Six has often interacted with him in the memory of his lakeside house on Caprica, which now exists purely in Gaius' mind ([[33]]). These visions have become less frequent as Dr. Baltar feels less nostalgic about his former dwelling ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]) .

The best example of Six's powers of illusion is during Baltar's ordeal on Kobol, in which he had a number of mass hallucinations. The first was during the traumatic crash of [[Crashdown|Lt. Crashdown]]'s Raptor. Six appeared to save Baltar's life by leading him through the flames unharmed. In reality, he was saved by Crashdown. The next vision was of the Forum and the City of the Gods, which he saw complete and undamaged. In this hallucination, Six leads him down the aisle of the Great Opera House onto the stage, where a white cradle awaits them. Six reveals to him there the plan that God has for Baltar and she, to create the [[Hera|next generation of God´s Children]]. (Interestingly enough, we later see that same cradle in [[New Caprica|New Caprica]], where baby Hera is kept.)

The next hallucination in Kobol also deals with the Cylon hybrid child. Baltar has a vivid dream in which ''Galactica'''s [[SAR]] team has arrived, with Adama leading the mission. Adama takes Baltar's child, and proceeds to drown her. When Baltar wakes up, he realizes that he must stop at nothing to ensure the survival of his baby, which seems to be exactly what Six wanted to see happen. Later, she tells him that one of their party will betray the others during the mission to destroy the Cylon missile battery preventing their rescue, and that to prove his worthiness as a father he must act like a real man for a change. This prompts him to take part in the mission as a scout, and later to kill Crashdown when he threatens [[Cally]]'s life.

When the [[Pegasus (RDM)|Battlestar Pegasus]] joins with the Fleet, Dr. Baltar is asked to examine their Cylon prisoner, [[Gina]]. Both the doctor and his Internal-Six are shocked and horrified to find that Gina (another Number Six version) has been tortured and gang-raped by the Pegasus crew. Six tearfully asks Baltar to help Gina, and he vows to do everything he can ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]). Her concern is replaced by jealousy and animosity, however, when she begins to suspect that Gaius is developing feelings for her "3-dimensional duplicate." Baltar learns from the suicidally depressed Gina that the large, previously unidentified vessel in the Cylon fleet following Galactica is the Resurrection Ship, where Cylon consciousnesses are downloaded into new bodies following the demise of their previous ones. Giving this information to Admiral [[Helena Cain|Cain]] and Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] results in the destruction of the ship and thus the permanent deaths of the Cylon agents aboard the [[Basestar (RDM)|Basestars]] guarding it, and of the attached squadrons of [[Raiders]]. Six proclaims that causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Cylons is an unforgivable sin, but Gina says that God will forgive Gaius and her. Baltar chooses to listen to Gina, and his internal Six temporarily vanishes ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

==Six's Internal Baltar==
[[image:LBlt.jpg|thumb|left|Turnabout is fair play.]]
In the episode "[[Downloaded]]" it is revealed that the vision of Number Six that Baltar sees everywhere is definitely not the same Number Six consciousness as the one he had a relationship with back on Caprica: [[Caprica-Six]]'s consciousness downloaded into a new body, and for nine months continued to live on Cylon-occupied Caprica. Within a few seconds, it it clear that "Caprica's" personality is completely different from the one in Baltar's head. Not only that, but just as Baltar has visions of her, Caprica-Six has persistent visions of [[Gaius Baltar]]. This image confronts her with her guilt in the slaughter of billions of human beings, and with the logical error behind the Cylons' actions. If murder, genocide, and vengeance are sins in the eyes of God when humans commit them, then why would God sanction the Cylons' mass murder of an uncountable number of unsuspecting people? Under the influence of Internal-Baltar, "Caprica" speaks out against the war alongside the reincarnated [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], and a new path is forged. This version of Baltar has yet to make another appearance.

The revelation in "[[Torn]]" about the Cylon's "projecting" abilities potentially sheds more light on the nature of Six's Baltar. This vision of Baltar is more than likely a manifestation of Caprica-Six's guilt and conflicted feelings appearing through her projection abilities.

When asked by a fan at a convention about the differences between this Baltar and the real Baltar, actor [[James Callis]] described Six’s Baltar as a man who “finally has his shit together.”

==Other hallucinations==

===Roslin's dream===
*A few months after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], [[Laura Roslin]] dreams that she is being pursued through a forest by a group of Marines. A copy of [[Leoben Conoy]] saves her, and then appears to be sucked away. Later, a copy of [[Leoben Conoy]] is found to be stowed away in the fleet, and he is executed by being sucked out an airlock exactly as he was in Roslin's dream. ([[Flesh and Bone]])

===Number Three's dreams and vision===
*The [[Number Three|Three]] acting as an overseer on New Caprica dreams that she visits the tent of [[Dodona Selloi]]. Three goes to visit Selloi when she awakens, and Selloi tells her she has a message from the Cylon [[God]]: [[Hera]] is alive and Three will hold her in her arms. Selloi's predictions prove to be accurate; Baltar finds Hera in the aftermath of the [[Battle of New Caprica]]. ([[Exodus, Part I]] and [[Exodus, Part II|II]])
*After the Cylons leave New Caprica, Three dreams that she is aboard Galactica, fleeing from a group of Marines. They corner her in front of a hatch marked "end of line" and execute her. When she awakens, Three orders a Centurion to shoot her, possibly believing her dream to be instruction from [[God]]. While she is downloading, Three finds herself in the [[Opera House]] on [[Kobol]] where Baltar's internal Six (above) showed him Hera's cradle. Five mysterious figures wearing white robes are also present. ([[Hero]])

==Theories==
There are various competing theories about the nature of the visions Baltar and Caprica-Six have of each other:

===Both are implanted chips===
In this theory, Number Six implanted a chip, containing one of her "sister" consciousnesses, into Baltar sometime before or during the attack on Caprica. Given the symmetrical nature of the hallucinations, the resurrected Caprica-Six must now have a chip of Baltar implanted in her brain. There are various pieces of evidence for this:
* This is the theory that the internal Six initially offers to Baltar
* The internal Six seems to know some pieces of information that Baltar does not; she offers Baltar a hint about a mysterious device in the ''Galactica'' CIC that leads to his uncovering of [[Aaron Doral]] as a Cylon agent; on the other hand, it could be that Baltar himself discovered the device but subconsciously transferred that part of his thinking to the hallucination of Six. Moreover, in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" she shows him a vision of a human-Cylon baby in a cradle that exactly matches the cradle that [[Hera]], the first human-Cylon baby, is later carried in. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

===Both are self-generated hallucinations===
In this theory, both Baltar and the resurrected Caprica-Six have begun hallucinating a vision of the other, in both cases as a psychological defense against massive feelings of guilt for their role in the near-destruction of humanity. There are various pieces of evidence for this:
* Both visions differ in personality from the people they represent; in both cases, the visions are confident and scoff at the failings of their subject; the real people remain guilt-ridden and indecisive.
* There is, as yet, no conceivable explanation for how a chip of Baltar could have been planted inside the resurrected Caprica-Six.
* After the Cylon takeover of [[New Caprica]], when Baltar and Caprica-Six resume their relationship, the internal Six appears to Baltar only when Caprica-Six is absent, indicating that he at some level does have control over her appearances. Though she did once appear upon Baltar's discovery of Hera in the abandoned city, with Caprica-Six only a few feet behind.
* Caprica-Six descibes the Cylon practice of "projecting" to Baltar, where the Cylons create their own reality around them by altering their perceptions somehow. This offeres a likely explanation to Six's Baltar, but only raises more questions about Baltar's Six.

===Both began as hallucinations, but the internal Six took on a life of its own===
This theory is similar to the general hallucinations one, but takes into account the bizarre events of the episode ''[[Six Degrees of Separation]]''. In that episode, Internal-Six warns Baltar that she will punish him for mocking her religious beliefs; she then disappears from his consciousness, and quickly thereafter a Six-model appears in the flesh on the ''Galactica'', claiming her name is [[Shelly Godfrey]], accusing him of treason. When it appears he may be executed on these false charges, a devastated Baltar accepts the [[God|Cylon God]] as his own; soon thereafter, "Godfrey" disappears from the ship and Internal-Six reappears to Baltar, pleased at his conversion. Under this theory, "Godfrey" was in fact a physical manifestation of Baltar's hallucination, created by some unexplained (and possibly never-to-be-explained) process.

===They really are messengers sent from God or the Gods===
Some force outside humanity and the Cylons is sending these two beings ([[W:Angel|angels]]) to Baltar and Six, along with the visions experienced by Roslin, Three, and Dedona Selloi. The angels and visions maysent by opposite sides of a celestial war (see [[Beings of Light]], [[War of the Gods]]), sent by the ''same'' side engaged in a war against both Cylon and Man, or sent by a supernatural being with another purpose altogether.

===Other theories===

* Baltar (a human, not an agent) actually died in the nuclear blast, but was somehow resurrected, (or, more plausibly, he had a near-death experience) with ''something'' of himself and Six becoming interchanged. Now a part of him is living in her, and vice versa. This would explain why the hallucination versions are in such stark contrast to the real versions, since they would be missing parts of themselves. It would also explain the "chip in Gaius'"- since he is in effect a "chip", and she is in him.
* Actor [[James Callis]]'s personal theory is that Baltar's Internal Six is a being from another universe or higher plane of existence who only Baltar can interact with. This may relate back to the "angel" theory [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNZZHl0Ls5U&mode=related&search=]. ('''Warning''': Video contains some explicit language)

The answers remain unknown.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Adamastache

2006-12-07T16:25:37Z

Noindiecred: + other BSG facial hair

{{sillypage}}

[[Image:Adamastache.jpg|thumb|right|Closeup of the Adamastache]]

'''Adamastache''' is the facial hair adorning Admiral [[William Adama]]'s upper lip.

The Adamastache first appears to us after the one-year jump in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]" but meets an untimely demise at the beginning of [[Season 3|Season Three]] in the episode "[[Exodus, Part II]]". While the shaving of the Adamastache was symbolic of a new beginning for the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonies]], we also learn through flashbacks in the episode, "[[Unfinished Business]]", that it was also party to a "laid-back" Adama and possibly played a role in the alleged nookie between the Admiral and [[Laura Roslin]] on [[New Caprica]].

==See also==

* Baltar's [[Sexy Treason Stubble]]
* Tyrol's [[Beard of Organized Labor]]

==External links==

* [http://www.myspace.com/xena420 Adamastache on MySpace]

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]

Hero

2006-12-01T23:33:17Z

Noindiecred: Grammar & spelling fixes

{{cleanup}}

{{Episode Data
| title= Hero
| image= Season 3 - Promo - Hero -Adama Tigh and Novacek.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 8
| guests= [[Carl Lumbly]]
| writer= [[David Eick]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-17
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,421
| prev= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
| next= [[Unfinished Business]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A [[Bulldog|figure]] from [[William Adama|Adama]]'s past returns to haunt him. His return raises questions about why the Cylons launched their initial attack against the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]].''

== Summary ==

=== On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' ===

* ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' detects three [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raiders]]. Much to the surpise of the [[CIC]] crew, two Raiders are pursuing a third Raider, damaged by Cylon gunfire. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] are dispatched. After destroying the pursuing Raiders, they go after the third.
* In CIC, [[Admiral Adama]] orders Kat and Starbuck to escort the Raider to ''Galactica'', after hearing, from the Raider, a familiar human voice and callsign: [[Bulldog]].
* In the hangar bay, Adama and the party are surprised that a human has exited the Raider. A visibly weak Daniel Novacek salutes Adama; Adama returns the salute.
* Over a meal (noodles eaten with chopsticks) Adama asks Novachek how he escaped. He relates a story of plague on the [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] and escaping after killing a [[Number Three]] with a blow to the nose delivered through the cell bars.
* Bulldog is debriefed by the [[Laura Roslin|President]] with Adama present, where they tell a (decidedly shaky) story of a mining facility too close to the Armistice Line. When the briefing ends, Roslin immediately questions Adama's story. He replies that it is "his mess" and that he resolve it. After she leaves, Adama kicks over a table in frustration.
* Novachek sees [[Saul Tigh]] in his quarters shortly after Adama talks to him. Tigh informs Novacek that Adama (aboard battlestar ''[[Valkyrie]]'') ordered Novachek shot down to get rid of evidence of their incursion into Cylon space.
*Meanwhile, Adama confesses the mission's actual specifics to his son, [[Lee Adama|Lee]], and his belief that he provoked the Cylon attacks on the Colonies. Aghast at first, Lee Adama tries to console his father, blaming the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Fleet Admiralty]], saying that he was "only one man." Adama responds, "It only takes one."
* [[Kara Thrace]] reviews their Viper's gun film from the fight with the Cylon Raiders and realizes that the Cylons were deliberately missing their target, letting Bulldog get away. She goes to Saul Tigh with this information, who deduces that Bulldog was sent there by the Cylons to kill the admiral.
* Tigh finds Novacek in the process of killing Adama and stops him. Bulldog has flashbacks to being let out of his cell.
* Later, Adama presents his resignation to Roslin. Bemused, she refuses to accept it, and points out that the Admiralty may have been trying to provoke a war, and that he cannot shoulder the entire responsiblity for the holocaust on his shoulders. She then tells him that his penance will be to accept a [[Medal of Distinction]] for his long years of service, and to be a hero, a trait badly needed for the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet's morale]].
* After sending Novacek off to a berthing on another ship with a uniform, Tigh (now wearing an eyepatch instead of medical gauze) and Adama sit down for a drink in the admiral's quarters to discuss what happened to [[Ellen Tigh]] on [[New Caprica]].

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*In a dream, [[Three]] is trying to avoid marines on ''[[Galactica]]''. The marines corner her against a hatch labelled "End of Line." The marines raise their weapons and Three tells them to shoot.
*As the shots go off, Three wakes up in bed with [[Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]]. She has apparently been having a sexual relationship with Baltar and possibly Six as well.
*In the Cylon control room, Caprica-Six questions Three about her bad dreams. Caprica Six asks if the dreams are about Baltar. Three indicates otherwise, but does not elaborate.
*Three gives a [[Cylon Centurion]] orders to shoot her, and then delete any information regarding the incident. The Centurion obeys and shoots her in the head. In the moments before she is downloaded, she experiences images from her dream mixed in with memories from New Caprica and other more cryptic scenes.
*Three awakes in a [[Cylon rebirthing tank]] where a Three, Five, Six, and Eight help her recover. The downloaded Three tells her counterpart, "There's something beautiful, miraculous between life and death."

== Questions ==
*Were the Admiralty's fears valid, or was the Cylon force that destroyed the Colonies built up just since that mission?
*Did Bulldog know of or see other human prisoners during his three years of captivity?
*How was Bulldog directed to the precise location of the fleet?
*What class of battlestar does ''[[Valkyrie]]'' belong to?
*Why would a "Stealth Ship" in enemy territory break radio silence and use active [[DRADIS]]?
*How was the ''[[Valkyrie]]'' able to track, target and engage a stealth ship?
*Why did the Colonial military need send a ship across the [[Armistice Line]] to do recon, when the ''[[Valkyrie]]'' was able to monitor the space beyond the line via [[DRADIS]]?
*Was ''[[Valkyrie]]''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s mission the only one the admiralty undertook or were there others?
*Was [[Laura Roslin]] right in speculating that the admiralty might have sent ''[[Valkyrie]]'' in order to provoke a war?
*Just what exactly was the "Unknown" craft that jumped near Stealth-Star, disabled it, and then jumped away? Whose was it? Where did it come from?
*Who were the five white-robed figures [[Three]] saw in her vision before downloading? Are they related to the Original Series's [[Beings of Light]]? Could they represent the mysterious "Final Five" Cylons?
*Were the Cylons on the baseship where Bulldog was held actually sick?
*Does Bulldog have information regarding the other humanoid Cylon models that nothing is known of?
*How did Baltar's status change from torturee in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" to an apparent sexual relationship with [[Caprica Six]] and [[Number Three]]?
* Was Adama's whole command staff transferred from the ''[[Valkyrie]] ''to ''[[Galactica]]'' after the failure of the recon mission?
*Why did Number three go through all the trouble to program the Centurion to erase its memory once it shot her? Was she afraid of being 'boxed' by the other Cylons for reasons of insanity or because it would do some sort of damage on the Centurion once its processed the kill?
*If Adama was truly responsible for the destruction of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], was this why the Cylons assigned numerous [[Cylon agent]]s to ''Galactica'' at the time of the attack ([[Sharon Valerii]] and [[Aaron Doral]])? Is this also the reason why [[Leoben Conoy]] was on [[Ragnar Anchorage|Ragnar]] when ''Galactica'' arrived there?
*If the flashback where [[Bulldog]] kills a copy of [[Number Three]] is true, then does that mean that the virus first shown in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" is even more widespread amongst the Cylons?

== Analysis ==
*Adama and Roslin know each other well enough by now to tell when the other is lying, or is not fooled by a lie, even when others around can't. Roslin has always been the better of the two in this ability, as early as revealing Adama's initial ruse about the location of [[Earth]] ([[Miniseries]]).
*At the end of the episode, [[Saul Tigh]] appears to be attempting to try and deal with his guilt over his wife, but he does not seem to want his job as XO back, at least not any time soon.
*Adama's feelings of guilt over his actions during ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' mission seem to shed new light on the motivation for his speech at ''[[Galactica]]'s'' decomissioning ceremony at the begining of the series. Also, they explain his near-monomania with safeguarding and/or rescuing those under his command or protection.
*The Cylons seem to have been able to detect and destroy The [[Stealth Star]] that had only entered two kilometers into their space. This seems suspicious given the fact that they were unable to detect the [[Blackbird]], presumably a far less sophisticated design. Either the Cylons had more advanced detection equipment on the [[Armistice Line]], or they had advance knowledge of Bulldog's mission.
**It is only speculation that the Blackbird's stealth capabilities were less effective than those of the Stealth Star. The reason that the Blackbird went undetected by the Cylons is that its hull, at Helo's suggestion, was made of carbon composite. There is no way of knowing whether or not this was true of the Stealth Star.
***In addition, the Cylons near the [[Armistice Line]] would have known to look for stealth ships, as they probably suspected that the Colonial fleet would try to gain intel on Cylon military status. After the destruction of the colonies, it is unlikely that the Cylons believed that the Colonials were still in possession of any kind of stealth fighter and would not attempt to detect one.
***The fact that the Cylons expected penetration by stealth ships suggests that they may have done their share of Armistice Line violation.
****We know that the cylons violated the armistice line (assuming the treaty wasn't one-sided); there were cylon agents buzzing around the colonies at that time. The Colonial intent was to provoke the cylons; sending a stealth ship wouldn't do that. Notice that Bulldog had open comm channels and an active DRADIS during the sequence; this would have made the stealth ship visible to the Cylons. Presumably, they intended to be seen, but at the first sign of trouble, go silent.
**Bulldog was communicating to the Valkyrie before being attacked. The Cylons may have been able to detect this radiation and fire at the source of it.
**It is possible that the [[Stealth Star]] had a transponder beacon which allowed the [[Valkyrie]] to track and target it, whereas the [[Blackbird]] most likely did not have a transponder installed at time of its first flight.
*Bulldog's story is even less believable given the fact that it took Kara Thrace several hours to gut a [[Raider]] and learn how to fly it. Granted, the Raider Kara captured was damaged, but it would still have taken Bulldog some time to adapt the raider for his own use.
**As the episode implies that Bulldog was deliberately released by the Cylons in an effort to direct his anger towards Adama, it is possible that the Cylons allowed Bulldog to gain a working knowledge of the raider.
*Bulldog probably could have stolen a Heavy Raider, which unlike the light versions seems to have a crew compartment and perhaps piloting controls, but then the production crew couldn't have re-used the captured-Raider prop from "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]" on the flight deck set.
*Kara Thrace going to Tigh with her findings is an acknowledgment of their shared semi-pariah status and the connection that was shown in "[[Collaborators]]" for the first time.
*The last two scenes of "Hero" appear to have been edited to ensure that the final scene was with Adama and Tigh. Right after the celebration scene, Adama is seen giving Bulldog a new uniform, but Adama is wearing his everyday uniform. In the final scene with Tigh, Adama is wearing his dress grays from the celebration. It appears at the very least, the two scenes were in reverse order, meaning the episode originally ended with Adama giving Bulldog his new uniform.
*During her experience between death and rebirth, Three finds herself reliving a series of memories from her various lives, including a shot of her in a theater on Caprica in "[[Final Cut]]", her final moments during "[[Downloaded]]", and her discovery of Hera on New Caprica in "[[Exodus, Part II]]". She also has a vision of another kind: the opera house seen by Baltar during the final moments of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]".
**This sequence, as well as this episode as a whole, showcases a number of fundamental BSG leitmotivs that have had little to no exposure in their original form since the end of season one/beginning of season two. The sound, as well as the imagery, reminds us that we've seen the opera house before, and the associated musical themes will likely help elucidate the symbolism behind the two visions.
*Three's flashbacks after being shot by the centurion indicate that she is the same individual who was killed on Caprica by [[Caprica-Six]] in "[[Downloaded]]" and who found Hera in "[[Exodus, Part II]]". It is of course possible that some of these recollections are the result of memory-sharing rather than direct experience.
**If she is the same Three that died on Caprica, that leaves the question how it can be that she didn't get the Opera House experience on her first death, even though she was stuck in limbo for thirty-six hours because of the massive casualties at the cafe in [[Downloaded]]. It is plausible that this Three wanted to die because she'd never experienced death before.
***It is also plausible that God is only just now trying to tell her something. The opera house may act as a cue, a signal sent from God that facilitates reflection on one's own destiny at a pivotal point in their existence, when it is no longer acceptable to ignore their role in God's plan out of arrogance or inconvenience (Baltar, "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" ), or because it seems a contradiction of the identity they'd formed by refusing to question their fate (Three, from the final days of the Occupation through "Hero"). In both cases, the opera house is revealed to a soul straddling the line between life and death, both in a physical and spiritual sense, and it is perhaps this balance that can uniquely invoke the presence of God, and guide the chosen instruments towards their intended destiny.
****It is interesting to note the central role Hera plays in both of the visions that bring us to the opera house.
*There's at least [[Stoffa|one other doctor]] of some kind in the fleet, because Cottle instructs Bulldog to report to him.
**This doctor is probably a psychotherapist that specializes in some sort of mental trauma issues. Considering that Bulldog was in captivity for such a long time, and his breakdown while attacking Adama, at the very least, Bulldog will need a counselor to help him work through all of the emotional and mental scars that he's endured. Cottle had already confirmed that Bulldog was generally well cared for, physically, by the Cylons.
**A psychotherapist is still, after a fashion, a medical professional. It is interesting that, after all the fuss about Cottle being the only doctor in the Fleet, suddenly mention is made of this other doctor.
***This medical professional could be a [[Wikipedia:Psychologist|clinical psychologist]], a person who provides mental health care and may possess a Ph.D., but is not a medical doctor capable of physically treating patients or prescribing medication. This description better fits the post-traumatic stress Novacek likely suffered in captivity.
***Cottle's skills as an experienced surgeon make him far rarer and more valuable than a general practitioner or other specialist.
*Based on the Raider's apparently staged attack, the Cylons appear to know the current location of the Fleet.

== Notes ==
*Laura Roslin reviews a [[:Image:Dossier.png |dossier]] prepared for her by [[Billy Keikeya|Billy]] on her first day aboard ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. It includes large photos of battlestar ''Galactica'', a photograph of the CIC crew of ''[[Valkyrie]]'', a (mostly illegible) certificate bearing [[Saul Tigh]]'s name, and a cursory biography of William Adama. This biographical information as been intergrated into [[William Adama]] article. Also, analysis of Colonial dates used in the dossier can be found in the [[Timeline %28RDM%29#Analysis of Colonial Dates |Timeline (RDM)]] article.

*In Adama's flashback, the admirals are wearing their decorations on their day uniforms. This contrasts with most Colonial Fleet officers shown thus far, who only wear their decorations on their dress uniform sash.

*Both [[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Sharon Agathon]] appear in this episode, but neither has any lines.

*In Number Three's dream, the door at which she is shot by the marines is labeled "End of Line". As well as being a metaphor for death, this is a statement repeated often by the Cylon [[Hybrid]]. "End of Line" is a also a reference to the movie "Tron" (see [[Podcast:Hero|podcast]]) and could also be a computer/programming reference.

*This episode shares some plot elements with the ''[[MemoryAlpha:Star Trek: The Next Generation|Star Trek: The Next Generation]]'' episode, "[[MemoryAlpha:The Defector|The Defector]]," written by Moore. Notably, it begins with a dramatic chase delivering a dubious ally into friendly hands that is later shown to be staged. Additionally, both episodes feature plots revolving around a contested border.

* For the episode, [[Bear McCreary]] created a musical theme for Novacek, called "Novacek's Theme", which was "very much inspired by [[w:Alfred Hitchcock|Hitchcock]]'s collaborations with composer [[w:Bernard Herrmann|Bernard Herrmann]]". <ref name="bear_mccreary">{{cite_web|url=http://www.bearmccreary.com/html/blog/blogmain.htm|title="Hero"|date=17 November 2006|accessdate=25 November 2006|last=McCreary|first=Bear|format=blog|language=English}}</ref>

*Admiral William Adama names Major Lee Adama to succeed him as commander of ''Galactica'' in his [[:Image:3x8-Hero-ResignationLetter.jpg | resignation letter]].

*In her vision of the Opera house, Three briefly glimpses five white figures. In his [[Podcast:Hero|Podcast]] for this episode, Moore implies that these correspond to the final five Cylon models.

*Galactica is in possession of another [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Raider]].

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Speaking to another Number Three after downloading:''
:'''Number Three''': There's something beautiful, miraculous between life and death.

*''Bulldog calls on Saul Tigh at Saul's quarters:
:'''Tigh''': So ... drink?
:'''Bulldog''': You have no idea!
:'''Tigh''' (scowling, unseen): Yes, I do.

== Official Statements ==
*A video blog gives an insight to this episode during filming. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=videoBlog&vid=34824|title=Introducing Bulldog|date=2006-10-11|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=VID|language=}}</ref>
*[[Bear McCreary]] discusses writing "Noavcek's Theme" on his web blog:
*: In general, I only write thematic material for characters who matter in the grand scheme of the series, in hopes that the character will return at a later point in the story. In rare cases I make an exception in order to give a guest star a particularly resonant musical voice. For example, [[Bill Duke]]'s [[Phelan]] from [[Season 2 (2005-06)|season two]]'s [[Black Market]] required his own theme, since all the events of the episode led up to his eventual stand-off with [[Lee Adama|Lee]].
*:
*:Hero was obviously another such case. Novacek's mysterious past drives nearly every scene in the entire show, and it was clear he required his own theme as well.<ref name="bear_mccreary"/>

== Guest Stars ==
* [[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Captain [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
*[[Carl Lumbly]] as Lt. [[Daniel Novacek]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[imdb:nm0447921|Barry Kennedy]] as Admiral [[Corman]]
* [[imdb:nm0461101|Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]] (credited)

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-22T02:26:34Z

Noindiecred: /* Folks in White Robes */

== Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) ==
I was reading the quote from Eick, "...Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies." and for some reason I felt that thie reminded me of Gorge Washington long before we was president or even commander-in-chief when, before the 7-Years-War, Washington was involved in a skirmish with the French over Fort Necessity, aka Pittsburgh (yes, we fought a battle for that city) that led to Washington signing a treaty stating, unbeknownst to him because he couldn't speak French and his interpreter sucked, that he committed attrocities against France in the name of the British Empire. This, according to many historians, led to the 7 Years War, known in America as the French and Indian War, that would decimate Northern Germany. I'm sure Washington at some level had to be aware of this error on his part and led him to remorse I imagine. Anyways, the story is different but I was wondering how many parallels there will be, if there will be, in this episode to Washington's conundrum. I wanted to ask a question on the article page but couldn't concise it enough for wiki standards. I may ask on the scifi bboard but input on this would be appreciated before I do. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 19:42, 3 August 2006 (PST)
:That's an interesting analogy, showing a fine attention to historical detail. I think the parallel has minor flaws, though, since Washington's conduct in that matter isn't generally considered morally wrong so much as foolish. [[Wikipedia:Gavrilo Princip|Gavrilo Princip]] might be worth considering as a parallel; he was the immediate but not ultimate cause of a devastating war, and he precipitated the conflict by attacking his fellow countryman, thinking it justified in contrast to the general consensus. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]<sup>([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]])</sup> 02:28, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

:: It's unlikely that Adama's actions are quite the transgression that he believes it to be; after all, the [[cylon agent|Cylons had been violating the armistice line]] for about a half a year prior to Adama's, anyway.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 02:09, 18 November 2006 (CST)

::: I was wondering about the timeline as well. I think Adama says somthing like, the mission was a year before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack]], but the cylons had been planning the attack for two years. However, I think there is an error in the timeline. Adama also says he served with Boomer for two years, and I think he implied that it was on Galactica. Gaeta also says that he served with Adama for three years. It is possible that Gaeta was on the Valkyrie for a year, but I think the mission happened about two years before the attack, not just one. I will rewatch the episode, but do you have any ideas? [[User:Jrmurph|Jrmurph]] 12:21, 18 November 2006 (EST)
:::: I think there is an inconsistency in the story. It is not unexplainable, ie Gaeta and Boomer served with Adama on the Valkyrie, but it did seem like nobody other than Adama or Tigh recognized Bulldog so the timeline is a little esquew. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:01, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Another Battlestar? ==
There is a spoiler image showing Adm Adama and Col Tigh in the CIC of the Battlestar Valkerie. I zoomed in on Adama and saw he had his Admiral's pins on. Might this be a sign that they soon will find yet another Battlestar? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:24, 15 November 2006 (CST)
: It's a flashback scene. It may be more of a costuming error. Note that Tigh still has his eye in that promo shot. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 01:39, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:: Right. Two eyed Tigh. Darn. I was hoping they'd find another Battlestar cause I do miss the Pegasus. It was bigger, much cooler and the doors made this cool "beep" when they opened. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:50, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::You can visit [[Valkyrie]] as well. It's a spoiler until Friday but you can adjust it with some new data later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::It's true, I saw the Admiral pips as well, the flashback should have been Commander pips; as the Stealth ship incident occurred three years ago. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 22:56, 17 November 2006 (CST)
: The Valkerie looked to be a Mercury class Battlestar. This would make sense because the galactica class was an older ship and has been all but replaced with the newer bigger and more efficent Mercury class.--[[User:Mike|Mike]] 09:30, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It's definately not a Mercury, the only part really similar is the engine block. If anything, it looked most like a reimagining of the original series battlestar, down to the rectangular opening in the flightpod and the angular head. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:47, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::Inside it looks like a Mercury yes. That's a sign of its age. But outside, it's far smaller than a full-sized battlestar. Look at the gun battery on the top. There's only one and almost covers the width of the ship there. See the Valkyrie page for more details (where this discussion should take place), but I think it's basically a smaller battlestar meant for support duties. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:52, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:: Not disagreeing with your main point, but its quite possible that there were far more Battlestar classes than just the "Cylon War Type" and the Mecurcy class, given that the colonies built up a fleet of arround 120 Battlestars over about 50 years, particularly as the Viper apparently went through 5 different itterations over this time, although we are likely never going to see the intervening versions of either type --[[User:Useless|Useless]] 09:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Barry Kennedy as Admiral Corman ==

Hey all, I was just checking on Barry Kennedy's link, and it links to an IMDB page other than his profile page detailing his filmography, and etc. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 23:52, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:That's because some people keep forgeting the "nm" when entering imdb numbers and in that case the link default to title instead of actor --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:53, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The Stealth-Star==
hey i just noticed this but the name of the ship was the stealth star so someone(not me)should create it a page. Best Snorkel378
:Already done [[Stealth Star]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:41, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The scene with Baltar, Six and Three in bed==
it says on there that 3 is having a sexual realationship with baltar and six?
Cylons arent lesbos i think they were having a 3some {{unsigned|Snorkel378}}
:You are assuming that the Six we see is Caprica-Six and not Baltar's internal Six. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 20:49, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It would be an odd choice cinematically to have Three wake up from a dream and show us something from inside Baltar's head. {{unsigned|Wldkt1}}
:::Please remembe rto sign your posts on talk pages guys <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 07:05, 19 November 2006 (CST)
The fact that Baltar and Six are in a 'clutch' position makes it unlikely that it's his internal Six. Three would have noticed Baltar trying to hug thin air in his sleep. Baltar is also in the center of the bed, rather than on one side. In addition, Caprica seems to be aware of (and approves) Three's new interest in Baltar. Regarding the possibility of a relationship between Three and Six: that is only speculation, but just because we haven't seen a lesbian relationship between cylons doesn't mean one isn't possible.[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 22:18, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:It could be that Caprica-Six sees this as a way to weaken Baltar--after all, the formula for getting Baltar to give up secrets seems pretty clear: get in his bed, get in his head, so to speak. Remember that during the torture in previous episodes, he said to Three, "I love you with all of my heart." That's what started the relationship, so I think Three is interested in Baltar for whatever reason, not <i>necessarily</i> Six. Plus, on a more humorous note...I have to wonder if the Cylons have any sexual relations amongst themselves at all. This could be one deprived Cylon... [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:24, 20 November 2006 (CST)
Speculation on Cylon sexual orientation aside, I think we all can agree that Baltar is one lucky sonofabitch. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:28, 21 November 2006 (CST)
:weell, if put aside the whole electro-shock thing and the drilling in the ear thing. Face it, Baltar had to work hard for that threesome.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 09:47, 21 November 2006 (CST)
::Well, yes, he did work hard for it, but doesn't everyone work hard for a threesome? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 17:53, 21 November 2006 (CST)

==The Black Ops Mission==
Does anyone think that the entire mission was poorly concieved? First, the Colonials jump a Battlestar to very close range of the armistice line, which one would expect to attract attention in and of itself. Second, we see the ''Valkyrie'' track the S-Star after launch and over the line. This either means the Valkyrie tracked it directly on DRADIS, which indicates it's not much of a stealth ship and that the Cylons should be able to detect it as well, or the S-Star has some sort of transponder reporting its position, which is also something the Cylons should detect. Finally, as referenced in the main article, the S-Star maintains radio contact with the ''Valkyrie'' throughout the whole mission, again something the Cylons should be able to detect. Would the writers have really overlooked all this, or are we meant to conclude that the Admriality meant for the mission to have been discovered by the Cylons? --[[User:Cleophus|Cleophus]] 22:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:-The mission is quite similar to the United States' U2 overflights during the late 1950's and 60's. Certain similarities between the depicted incident and the [[:wikipedia:U-2 Crisis of 1960|incident involving Francis Gary Powers]] can be read. It also conjures up several dozen observation flights by aircraft such as specially outfitted C-130's flying perilously close to a boundary line — even going so far as to slip a wingtip across it to "call a bluff". Also, there's the incident involving the Chinese Gai-8 fighter and the US P-3 Orion.
:In the case of our Colonials here, the stealth craft is more than likely equipped with an "odd frequency" (either very low or very high), encrypted transponder that transmits on a specific wavelength, only for IFF purposes. If I recall correctly, F-117 Nighthawks can still use their radios when on ops (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I suspect that this mission was proposed in order to get a glimpse into ''any'' Cylon activity. The stealth craft would be dangled out as a tiny bit of bait – just enough to get a response. Its stealth characteristics would increase its ability to dash back across the Armistice Line untracked and unaffected, and then ''Valkyrie'' would be able to observe and record the arriving Cylons. If questions were raised ("What are you doing here?" ... "Good question, what are ''you'' doing here?" ... "We detected you over the Armistice Line." ... "Who, us? Noooo... We've been on our side this whole time, just trolling about, watching over our miners over there on that moon there. So why are you here again? You don't mind if we take some photos of you while you're here, do you?"), the Colonials would feign ignorance and innocence, but they'd at least have a response... something that the Cylons haven't even projected in thirty-plus years. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:--Is it possible that the Stealth Star was shot down by a Colonial Force in hopes that it would percipitate a conflict? Similar to the Gulf of Tonkin? This way the Colonials can say one of their ships got lost and was destroyed by the Cylons in cold blood (Or something along those lines). Also, it makes no sense a ship would jump in, shoot the S-Star, and jump out. Why wouldnt it commit to killin the S-Star? --[[User:Skrip00|Skrip00]] 16:31, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:: Perhaps. We don't know either way. To be honest, after some seriously critical thought about it on my part, there's really not much of it that makes sense, since it was poorly explained in the episode. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 16:55, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==Folks in White Robes==
Aren't there five white-robed figures in Number Three's vision? It's pretty speculative, but maybe these are meant to represent the five missing Cylon models (maybe they've undergone some kind of transcendence, and are "with God now" or something). Maybe the article should note this (after all, the white-robes show up for the first time just a couple episodes after we first learn that there's definitely something different or mysterious about the five missing models), though I don't know the proper section for it. {{unsigned|Steve}}

:- I noticed that too, but was going to "acquire" the episode and re-watch that part, or watch it again on Monday to see... I _think_ there are five humanoid figures in white robes, kneeling or seated in that semi-circle when Three walks amongst them. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:Three's in the opera house on Kobol where Baltar's internal Six shows him Hera's cradle; I believe those are the same white drapes that can be seen on the opera house stage in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 11:38, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::Well I agree she's in the opera house from KLG, but I don't think I'm referring to the drapes. In the initial shot of the opera house, there seem to be five glowing figures standing between the six white drapes. Some of the quick shots of the opera house that follow show these figures, and some do not (as though they are alternately hiding and revealing themselves). At the end of her experience, Three approaches and reaches out to one of these figures just before she is resurrected. --[[User:Steve|Steve]] 02:50, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:::Sorry, you're right. I watched the episode again and noticed them. (Don't know why I missed them the first time, I was watching on a huge HDTV then!) I have a feeling that in the next few episodes, Three is going to keep having "accidental" deaths, and we'll see these figure again. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 20:26, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== Reference to Raising Arizona? ==

I'm new here, so I didn't want to jump right into the thick of things by adding this to the main page before running it by other people...when Adama and Novacek are sitting down for the first time, Adama asks him something like "How did you escape, Bulldog?". Novacek rambles for a little bit (again, I don't remember exact words) but wraps up with "I felt the facility no longer had anything to offer me...". If I'm not mistaken, this is a reference to Raising Arizona--John Goodman's character says just about the exact same thing after he breaks out of prison. I can't seem to find the line on IMDB or Wikiquote, though... {{unsigned|MikeDanger}}
:Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 07:08, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:As far as I remember "Raising Arizona", the dialogue goes like this:<br>
:''- You busted outta jail?''<br>
:''- No, ma'am. We released ourselves on our own recognizance.''<br>
:''- What Evelle is tryin' to say is we felt the institution no longer had anything to offer us.'' -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:28, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== Insight into Cylon plan ==
If the Cylons know where the Colonials are, or at least know well enough to send Bulldog at them, it's common sense to ask, why don't they just attack? Well, maybe their goal isn't to destroy Galactica et al outright but something more complex. One thing that does seem consistent with their plan is their desire to kill Adama, perhaps because they want to send the fleet into disarray without him at the top. Examples: Leoben telling Roslin that Adama's a Cylon in Flesh and Blood, Boomer shooting Adama repeatedly in Kobol's Last Gleaming Pt. II. There may be more examples that I can't think of right now.

People have been crying out "plot hole!" with reckless abandon in light of Bulldog's ability to pinpoint Galactica's position, but if the Cylon plan really is as simple as ''kill all humans,'' as these detractors might claim, then much of the show falls apart. The reality is, we don't really know the Cylon plan, and at this point, there's really no reason to jump to the conclusion that the writers are just too lazy to think of one. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 18:22, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:The Cylons might know full well where the Colonials are but if they jumped in a couple of Basestars then the fleet would zip out of there pretty sharpish and might go somewhere where the Cylons dont know and they will have to find them all over again. IMO, their plan is a long game. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 19:17, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:IMHO, "Hero" is the weakest episode of the series yet. There's just too many logic errors for me to dismiss as part of the "suspension of disbelief" process. For instance, how does Bulldog have the time to learn how to pilot a Cylon raider, when Starbuck took hours to figure out how to operate the thing? Also, how would Bulldog be able to operate the FTL drive -- Kobol's Last Gleaming pretty much made it clear that the FTL drive needed an actual computer, given that the brain had to be ripped out in order for it to be piloted manually. But that's another not so fine mess.
: As for the Cylon plans, well, they're clearly compliated and seem to be changing since the attack. Whether or not this is by design has yet to be detrmined, though I sincerely doubt that the writer's have this thing all planned out a la ''Babylon 5''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 22:30, 19 November 2006 (CST)

::Yeah, I know what you're saying. I also doubt it's all planned out B5-style (hasn't Ron basically said something to that effect anyway, like how much they enjoy making it up as they go along?), but that doesn't mean it necessarily can't all add up in the end, and we should assume that they ''do'' know what they are doing until they are proven wrong.

::Also, a lot of people have been talking about how unrealistic it is for Bulldog to have learned how to operate the raider in such a short time. I'm not trying to start an arguement about this, but I don't actually remember them saying that he had only a short time to learn how to use the raider. Are you guys just assuming that he had to learn it all quickly based on the rushed nature of his escape? Is there a reason he couldn't have actually had a few hours to do it? I mean, if they let him escape, then he could have been in the basestar hangar for hours trying to work the controls while they watched (and snickered) from behind the glass. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 23:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:I agree that a lot of people have seemed predisposed to cry foul lately--I can understand how the scientific goofs in "A Measure of Salvation" could've set people on edge--but I do think it's possible that if the Cylons are operating under a religious motivation, that their plan does go beyond a simple "kill all humans" approach. They may see the need to exact specific steps of revenge/torture against humanity, perhaps a particular punishment for each perceived offense. That's just one possibility, but it could well be they have the death of a thousand cuts in mind for the remnants of humanity. I think Drumstick's probably on to something here. Or you know, if they wanted Bulldog to escape, they could have trained a Raider (which wasn't injured like Starbuck's) to understand and obey his commands or even set it up with an interface that a human could use. Until we see proof or disproof of all the different theories, I think it's too early to try to claim BsG has jumped the shark or anything similar. I also have to wonder if anybody here has writing experience with writing a full-length work. I am working on my first novel, and keeping total, perfect consistency is <i>not</i> easy and while I tend to get the big things right, I am still finding a lot of subtle things that need tweaking, and this despite my best efforts. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:17, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Possible Discontinuity ==
According to the episode, Adama and friends served on the Valkyrie a year before the attacks. This implies that Adama was only commander of the Galactica for a year before the miniseries. Yet on the Kara Thrace article, it states that Thrace "resigned from flight school as a instructor and transferred as an operational pilot aboard battlestar Galactica under the command of William Adama, where she served for some '''two years prior to the Cylon attack''' on the Twelve Colonies." They can't both be right.

Also, from the Tyrol article: "He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including Columbia, Atlantia, and Pegasus (Resistance). He has served under William Adama on Galactica for five years (Litmus)." If he served under Adama for 5 years, why didn't he mention the Valkyrie when he was being intimidated by Tigh in Resistance? This could be simply because Tigh would have known that.--[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 22:16, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:No, your first impulse is correct - it's quite certainly an error.
:'''Gaeta:''' And... may I take this opportunity to say that it's been both a pleasure and an honour to serve under you [Adama], these past three years. ([[Miniseries]])
:'''Adama:''' We [Thrace and I] talked about a lot of things. We've been aboard this ship for over two years, we know each other very well. ([[Act of Contrition]])
:'''Adama:''' She [Valerii] was more than that to us. She was more than that to me. She was a vital, living person... aboard my ship for almost two years. She couldn’t have been just a machine. Could you love a machine? ([[The Farm]])
:Also, note that the timeline in Adama's dossier (which seems to be accurate based on other data points) puts his transfer to ''Galactica'' at six years prior to the miniseries.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It is quite possible that this is not an error ''per se''. Adama and some of his command staff could easily have been assigned to the more modern Valkyrie from Galactica for the mission. It wouldn't make much sense to send "the bucket" on a stealth mission anyway. Notice Valkyrie seemed smaller and was probably more modernized, which would make it all the better for that type of mission. So Adama could easily have been in command of Galactica for several years prior, been offered command of Valkyrie as a reward, for career advancement or just for the mission... and have been pushed back to Galactica when the mission failed. Certainly the plan to decommission Galactica was in the works for some time, and they would not want one of their good commanders to retire with the ship... until after the mission where he failed. None of the characters would be expected to say "I served under Adama for some years, and some other guy for a couple of months, then Adama again." They would just say they served with him for X number of years. If we compare to the modern US Navy, this sort of thing is not all the uncommon.--[[User:Xealot|Xealot]] 10:22, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:::The dossier's progression from XO of ''Columbia'' to Commander of ''Valkyrie'' to Commander of ''Galactica'' seems to indicate that ''Valkyrie'' was his first battlestar command. Though I agree that the serve under "X years" would fly if they stayed under him. It's just the "this ship"'s that start biting them. (When they specify the ship instead of the command.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:53, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It's really embarassing in continuity. If they had put the entire affair a few years further into the past, it would have made much more sense not only in Adamas biography, but also in the overall plot. Boomer served on ''Galactica'' for two years and probably spend some additional time at flight school, so Adama must know the Cylon infiltration started long before the Stealth-Star incident. This should really get Adama to ask himself how long the attack had been planned, though he might convince himself that the Cylons put their infiltrators in place just as a precaution and his actions led to their decision to actually use them. A few years more time between the attack and the incident would put the estimated start of Cylon infiltration (which actually could be anywhere between 2 and 20 years before the attack) around the same time, giving Adama a far more powerful reason to believe that he started it right there. I would like to think that putting the incident one year before attack was just an accident, but then it would probably become even more difficult to explain how Bulldog survived that long.

::Another point that's problematic: did ''Valkyrie'' have an integrated computer-network? Up to this episode all information we had suggested that all battlestars save ''Galactica'' had them and that it was Adamas position of ''no network on my ship'' that prevented an upgrade.

::*If ''Valkyrie'' had a network Adamas politics of ''it's all hand on here'' are somewhat harder to believe. Up to now it looked like the position of a war-veteran who opposed networks on principle, this is harder to believe if he already commanded a ship with such a network.

::*If there was no network on ''Valkyrie'', then why wasn't there one? It appears extremely unlikely that the networks were all installed in the time between the incident and the attack, though the decision cannot have been made to long before Adama took command of ''Galactica'', because the previous commander would probably have had it installed. And given that it must have been a major decision to put networks on battlestars once more it's hard to believe that the Admirality would allow commanders to pull the plug on it as they see fit. I can imagine Adamas opposition being tolerated on ''Galactica'', because it was an old battlestar nearing it's decommissioning with a design that may have been especially hard to upgrade (regardless of Gaetas patchwork in [[Scattered]]). They could have simply decided that it was not worth the effort to force Adama to accept the upgrade. But that would be hard to believe for ''Valkyrie'', if you are sending a battlestar on such a sensitive mission you want it at maximum performance. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 14:49, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::The network thing isn't hugely problematic. We have no notion of how old ''Valkyrie'' was. ''Atlantia'' was at least 17 years old at the time of the attack (based on Adama's dossier), and was still worthy to serve as Nagala's flagship in the Miniseries. ''Galactica'' was even older. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:44, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:Adama's dossier may or may not help matters. If the screencap interpretation in the article is correct, then it is currently 21356 - based on the 45th anniversary of Adama's commissioning - which is consistent with what we know about Colonial Day and the Armistice. Therefore the Fall of the Colonies occurred in 21354, and that means the Valkyrie incident occurred in 21353 or thereabouts. However, the dossier goes on to state that Adama took command of Valkyrie in 21345, and Galactica in 21348. If the dossier is correct, then the Valkyrie incident had to take place in 21347 or 21348...which means that Adama's "graceful retirement" lasted for 6 years until the Fall. If this timeline is correct, then it basically blows all the dialogue in this episode out of the water, but validates everything we've seen and heard in the first two seasons. Of course, this is all contingent on the dossier being correctly interpreted...but it appears to be pretty consistent. --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 19:55, 21 November 2006 (CST)

== Cylon detector problems ==

There's some inconsistency with the "Cylon Detector" that Doc Cottle used to determine that Bulldog was a human. First of all, if you look at the screen caps, [http://galacticabbs.com/index.php?act=module&module=gallery&cmd=si&img=56612|like this one], you can see that the screen says "-RESULTS NEGATIVE-" If he was testing the DNA against their military records, it should say "-RESULTS POSITIVE-" If it's negative, the DNA doesn't match. That, or it's supposed to be a Cylon Detector, and it's saying that he's not a Cylon. It seems like it could be a simple goof between dialogue and props.

However, going along with the DNA reasoning... that doesn't necessarily prove anything, does it? If they tested Boomer's DNA against the DNA they have on record for her, I assume it's going to match, since they probably took Cylon DNA initially. Who's to say that the same thing didn't happen to Bulldog? In that case, his DNA would match, but he'd be a Cylon. Seems like a poor determiner of race, that's all. I don't think that he's necessarily a Cylon, just that this is another "oops."

--It might prove something...if the Colonials have DNA records going all the way back to a person's birth. If they're matching against that kind of original record (heck, maybe they even have the parents' records, too), then that may well constitute proof. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:06, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Moved content ==

Folks, stuff like this needs to be removed (or reworded) on sight. Right now, this document reads a bit like it's arguing with itself. Before adding content that seems to contradict itself, please discuss it on the talk page -- that's what this feature is for.

Below, here's what I've removed thus far from the article that contradicts itself. Stuff like this, ''again'', must be hashed out on talk pages before entering the main article space. Thank you. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 11:52, 20 November 2006 (CST)

=== Removed content ===

*[[Dualla]] apparently served on the Valkyrie; she can be seen in the background standing behind Adama and Tigh in the flashback scenes.
**That person in the scene is most likley not Dualla; it's not easy to see because the flashback-scenes in the CIC have (deliberatly) not the best quality.

User:Noindiecred

2006-11-20T17:59:00Z

Noindiecred:

Noindiecred is a die-hard Battlestar Galactica fan who lives in Lexington, Kentucky.

He also enjoys writing about himself in the third person.

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-20T17:38:36Z

Noindiecred: /* Folks in White Robes */

Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

2006-11-20T17:33:59Z

Noindiecred: Added misc. hallucinations

We should add some more specific examples of what the hallucinations have done. A picture of Internal-Baltar with Six would also be good.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:48, 14 March 2006 (EST)

Aside from marking the page as primarily speculative, I agree this page should stay. This is one of the things that people immediately notice when watching this series, and therefore deserves a place here. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 01:02, 20 March 2006 (CST)

== "Most likely" ==

The article suggests that Six is "most likely" an actual, downloaded personality on a chip in his head. I disagree with this, in part because RDM himself has stated otherwise in his podcasts, but also because I think they've been very careful, for the most part, to leave the question balanced. Gaius Baltar is a genius. If Internal-Six is an hallucination, then he's officially a mad genius, but he's a genius, nonetheless. Almost all of his insights into Cylon motives, actions, and character can be explained simply by his being a genius with multiple personality disorder.

And example, from the miniseries: Six points out the device (later revealed to be a kind of transponder) on the underside of the DRADIS console. Baltar (like Gaeta, who admitted having seen it) has undoubtedly seen this device out of the corner of his eye the whole time he's been in CIC, and it is pretty obviously out of place with the rest of the ship's tech. A "normal" person would either ignore it (as Gaeta did, thinking it was part of the transformation of the ship into a museum) or start speculating silently to themselves what it might be and how it got there. The difference is that Baltar now has a dissociative personality that closely resembles his Cylon lover to talk these things through. Everything he knows or speculates that's related to the Cylons now comes from this split personality, because he's desperately trying to evade his own complicity.

In short, it's just as likely (if not more) that Baltar diagnosed himself correctly from the beginning. He's basically gone mad. And since he's not being treated, he will undoubtedly get worse before he gets better.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 14:41, 14 March 2006 (CST)
:Clarified.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:19, 14 March 2006 (EST)

:I think this page is redundant and should be removed.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:56, 14 March 2006 (CST)
::Why? It discusses both Internal-Six and Internal-Baltar, who constitute a single phenomenon or two closely related phenomena, so it doesn't belong under either Number Six or Gaius Baltar. All the information from the Internal-Six section of the Six article has been removed and put here. --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:26, 14 March (EST)
:::I disagree with Merv that it's redundant, but I do think a lot of it is speculative. We've been tightening the standards on speculation in episode articles, but I'm not certain what the standard is outside them.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 15:12, 14 March 2006 (CST)
::::Since little concrete is known about the hallucinations the page about them is of course full of speculation, but they're too important not to have a page. The changes in prevailing theories as new evidence airs is noted. I agree that episode articles should not be speculative. Also, most of this content was already on this site, it has merely been moved to this more appropriate page.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:46, 14 March 2006 (EST)
:::::A fair point, and I'm not even sure I would have noticed the speculative aspects as worthy of mention until yesterday, when the policy for "Questions" in episode articles shifted. Now, tho', I'm sensitive to the question of which articles should be strictly encyclopedic and which can and should be more speculative. I'm not saying I'm certain this article should be heavily edited to strip out speculation. I'm saying I'm not certain either way.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 15:28, 14 March 2006 (CST)
::::::It sounds like Uncle Mikey might be ripe for [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|recruitment]]. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:41, 14 March 2006 (CST)
:::::::Thou shalt not make a machine mind in the image of a human mind. Oh, wait, that's the '''Butlerian''' Jihad... :-D --[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 09:44, 15 March 2006 (CST)

Nonetheless, there are only two instances of this. Further, Baltar was definately a hallucination by Caprica-Six, clean and simple. Meanwhile, we still don't know what virtual Six is, but that goes on her own page.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 06:43, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:How so? Is it just a coincidence that she has an inner Baltar and he has an inner Six? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 06:06, 17 March 2006 (CST)
:Further, and this is my biggest arguement against this (practicality): most of the information here is actually cut and pasted from other arguements. The entire last paragraph is just taken from the virtual Six article.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 06:44, 15 March 2006 (CST)
::I don't necessarily see that as an argument to eliminate this article. Having a single article that consolidates information about a particular topic is not a bad thing, and this topic is certainly one of wide interest.--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 09:44, 15 March 2006 (CST)

::Mikey you've only got two "hallucinations". It is hard to consolidate ''two'' things. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:38, 15 March 2006 (CST)

This article is useful, and is not redundant in the least. It is speaking of a particular occurence of a character, which plays an important role and appears to be separate from all other instances of Number Six. It is silly to say that it is mere coincidence that both Baltar and Six are having hallucinations of each other, so it is a topic that should have a page listing information on each sighting of the hallucinations. After all, we have articles about marines who only have their names mentioned...considering the importance of virtual Six and virtual Baltar in influencing events, I think they more than qualify in importance in having their own article. As for the speculation, I would argue that an article about something that is as confusing as this will have a fair amount of speculation, until later episodes clear things up (if they ever do). I see nothing wrong with paragraphs beginning, "Thus far, it appears..." --[[User:Ravriem|Ravriem]] 19:48, 17 March 2006 (CST)
: I am seeing no problems with this page. It works! --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 21:10, 19 March 2006 (CST)

This page is extremely important. It is the only category in which Internal Six and Baltar (one of which is extremely important to the entire story) and all the hallucinations brought by six can fit. They don't fit anywhere else and to delete the page is to simply through these two and their "special effects" away. They are the reason behind everything that is going on. Face it, they are basically gods in the show, shaping the decisions of both sides. I wouldn't be surprise if they did indeed turn up being a part of the Cylon God. My point is, it is important to differentiate them from normal Baltar or any Six, they are not Cylons or humans, they are manipulative Hallucinations that have shaped things in their image. Arguing that they are only two is unfair, hallucinations refers to the entire set of hallucinations, the whole topic of mental six and mental baltar and basically the whole Six-Baltar story line. Its even more important to the story than one of the main characters like Thrace. -- [[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20 March

No. In the podcasts RDM stated that the Baltar hallucination was just a hallucination, while they have been consistently ambiguous on ChipSix. Meanwhile, you even ''used'' the phrase "delete the thread"--->this is not a ''forum''. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 23:25, 19 March 2006 (CST)

:That was a mistake. No point in making attacks on a simple error, they don't really help. And RDM did not say Batlar was "just a hallucination", he said he was a hallucination, but then we already knew that, both are, by definition, hallucinations, whether aided by a foreign device or not. You interpreted to mean that baltar six was absolutley nothing more than madness. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19 March 2006
::In this one The Merovingian, you are out numbered. There are more people here and '''you''' are the only one who thinks this should be deleted. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 12:45, 20 March 2006 (CST)

If we have such a problem with this, let me pose a solution: virtual-Six and virtual-Baltar aren't the only hallucinations, technically. They're just the only hallucinations that talk back. Baltar also hallucinated that Six brought him to the Opera House on Kobol. Maybe this should be a category, not an article, and Six, Baltar, and the Opera House couls have their own articles. Also, if more hallucinations are introduced, it would be pretty silly to have deleted this only to have to put it back. [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 13:29, 20 March 2006 (CST)
:I think it is important to note that theatrically these hallusinations are treated characters in their own rights. The hallucination of the baby in the crib on Kobol is essentially a prop and whereas the hallucination of at-the-time-Commander William Adama was a character in his own right, it was a one-shot deal that was part of the scene. Also, Roslin's dreams of Adar were just dreams and not an interactive character but Adar still gets his own page because of historical notes. Hallucination-Six is a re-occurring interacting character thru many episodes and may just be Baltar's hallucination due to his psychosis, but there has to be a back story involved with her knowledge of events involving the birth of Hera. I believe this will come out in season 3 and therefore this article should be here in preparation of this revalation. Hallucination-Balter may earn his own article piece in the same revalations. We will see. I think the jury is out depending on the re-occurance of that character. [[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 09:21, 21 March 2006 (MST)

== Establishing a Pattern ==
I was watching an episode of DS9 the other day ([[MemoryAlpha:Waltz|Waltz]]), and was struck by the similarity of the interactions between (the increasingly insane) Dukat and his mental apparitions. Towards the beginning he is able to hold it together like Baltar and Six do, playing off comments or looks that he makes to them. It doesn't take too long before he's trying to blast them with a phaser, though. I was not surprised when I hit the memory-alpha site to find that RDM did the story on it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:39, 21 March 2006 (CST)
:Dukat, betrayer of the Alpha Quadrant. Baltar, betrayer of humanity.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:43, 21 March 2006 (EST)

==Should we Delete "Analysis and Questions"?==
Well, recently many people have been complaining about the supposed speculation based info in this article. I've read it well, and though they are obviousley exaggerating (its only one section), it is still possible for them to continue the arguement (which is hence started being used to describe the wiki, and its editors (unjustly at times). Perhaps if we deleted this it would ease the comments which may soon start to go more unjustly than just this article. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23 March 2006
:For goodness sake, it's a marked section. If someone doesn't want to read speculation they can just ignore that part. It's starting to sound to me like we have obsessed people out there. Edit: I don't mean you, Sauron 18, but of course that's obvious.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:36, 25 March 2006 (EST)
::For the record, I personally have no objection to speculation in a marked-off section, particularly on a topic-specific page (as opposed to an episode guide page). I think that, when the series eventually comes to an end, speculations should be segregated out even further, so that a part of the site can be considered a solid reference work for the series, but hopefully we've got a while before we have to worry about that :-)--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 12:48, 25 March 2006 (CST)
:::I concur on all points.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:57, 25 March 2006 (EST)
::::Yeah, I would rather leave it there (especially if something turns up right), but I was just making a sort of plan b, if the wiki begins being attacked on a larger scale. Of course, people would have to be kind of stupid to not notice it says "Analysis and Questions", but, well people do tend to be a bit like this. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 25 March 2006

We should delete this page because A) the "ChipSix" section was better when on the main "Number Six" article; indeed, MOST of "Cylon related Hallucinations" is just a cut'n'paste of that old page's material B) the "Hallucinatory Baltar" stuff is just a copy paste of a paragraph from the episode guide. And even if they're re-written, there simply isn't much to say. And RDM STATED that Baltar was just a hallucination. ''BattlestarWiki'' is not a forum, and this page is really just a sloppy mistake. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 23:30, 25 March 2006 (CST)
:You are out gunned Merv. Also this page shows that this exists, shows that these do happen. Delete it, but it would be back in another form or another because these Hallucinations are creating story plot and twists and they should be addressed all together. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 00:13, 26 March 2006 (CST)
:I don't know why you think Internal-Six would be better on the Number Six article when she clearly isn't one. Also, RDM's exact words were that Caprica-Six is seeing her own idea of who Baltar is. He said the same of Baltar seeing his idea of who Six is. In neither case does this preclude something else acting like the person's idea of their former lover. For your information we've added details on many visions that weren't mentioned in the old, incorrectly-placed Internal-Six section. And indeed, even if if one or both of the Internals does turn out to be just a hallucination: (A) We don't know it yet so don't count your chickkens before they're hatched, (B) Who cares? They're still a plot-driving phenomenon even if it is just insanity. I also don't know what you mean with your "TV Guide' reference with the Internal-Baltar section.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:50, 26 March 2006 (EST)

::Please bring up something relevant instead of vague threats of a revert war. No, you have not brought up an official vote. The place for this is in the Analysis section of the '''Episode Guides''' as opposed to just making up a new page for random thoughts; this is not a forum, and on a more established mediawiki like MemoryAlpha, this page would have been deleted quite some time ago. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 00:17, 26 March 2006 (CST)
::: Then call for a vote. Until then, it shouldn't even be deleted then or dreamed of being deleted. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 00:18, 26 March 2006 (CST)
:::: [[Battlestar_Wiki:Tutorial_%28Keep_in_mind%29#Subject_matter]] - Should be taking a look at. Notable Subject Matter is something I like to point out before people check out this link. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 00:45, 26 March 2006 (CST)
::::: I'm not sure what part of that linked section you think supported your case. I vote with Merv. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 02:11, 26 March 2006 (CST)

:I thank you, CalculatinAvatar. But Shane; encyclopedias are not a democracy; this is not a matter of informational content (we vote on things like that), but a question of wiki article standards, of "what justifies having an article" which is one of the more basic questions we run into. For example, someone could have a page devoted to "Does Cally Enjoy Cornmuffins?"; such a page could actually be based on things seen on screen, but would it justify an article? No. This is whole thing is just cut and pastes from other articles, or "Analysis" which should be put into the ''Episode Guide'' articles for analysis. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 19:50, 26 March 2006 (CST)

::As for adding the link to "Notable subject matter"; Shane this didn't prove anything; everyone if you click on the link it just leads to a page saying "subject content and what constitutes and article is a hotly debates issue"--->this does not support or go against your position either way, Shane. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 19:52, 26 March 2006 (CST)

:: Does it have anything to do with the plot? No, then it should not be included. However, periods of this {{PAGENAME}} happen because of the plot and effect the plot of the story. If I were to ask if brushing my teeth keep me away from having cavaities, I would say that is part of my plot. Something simple but part of my own plot. This is on a much grander scale. Also, just relizing this now, this takes down some of the size of Episode Guides. They are getting to long, and placing them on a sperate page, is what a Wiki does to conserve space so anyone can read it, even those people I know who still run a 56k modem. You keep saying no. If they didn't show it, then I would agree, but for some odd reasons they seem to a) change the music when Six shows up, b) have a real dramtic pan left or right shot to show Six has showen up again. These would be deleted scenes! As a fact, they are not. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 19:57, 26 March 2006 (CST)

:::The article has it's importance, in the three main types of hallucinations which do not really fit any category but this and are rather important to the plot, if not directly responsible for it. Despite some user's attempts to make it seem like foolish speculation, there is really none but in the section of analysis and questions, which is after all, for analysis and questions. It goes here because the episode guide is for episodes, not phenomena in them, though a small mention to point in the direction of the more explicit article dedicated solely to documenting the appearance and effects of the phenomena themeselves.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 27 March 2006

== Analysis is ''not'' limited to episode guides... ==

Just want to point out that analysis, contrary to the beliefs of some, is not limited to episode guides. In fact, as the series continues, I do not doubt that common themes will have their own articles. For instance, someone could conceivably come along and create an article on [[You reap what you sew]], which is a common theme in BSG. On such an article, they can describe the cause and effect of this theme. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 21:35, 26 March 2006 (CST)

: Joe -- thank you for stating this point clearly. Pages that focus on recurring themes or distinctive phenomena, and draw together information from various episodes about those themes or phenomena on a single page, make perfect sense to me, '''even if the information in them is made up entirely of copies from episode pages'''. This page qualifies, IMO. And now, I'm really tempted to write (or at least get started) the article you suggest as an example, but I don't know if I'll have the time :-D--[[User:UncleMikey|Uncle Mikey]] 21:43, 26 March 2006 (CST)

::I see. In that case, I will add a cleanup-tag instead of asking for deletion.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup>

:: I have already done and seen considerable amounts of cleanup, and I sincerely welcome the efforts of others so long as the article is not butchered. --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:12, 27 March 2006 (EST)

:::Not many edits since the tag was added. I guess it's ok to remove the tag? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 06:58, 6 April 2006 (CDT)

::::Let's leave it on as a compromise, just so first time visitors understand that there is shaky ground around this and the tag directs them to look at the points in this Discussion page. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 14:45, 6 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::Good idea.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:58, 6 April 2006 (EST)
::::::May *I* suggest a tag created called [[Template:DisputedFacts]]? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 21:31, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::::If a "fact" is "disputed" it's not a fact and we don't post it here. I thought our compromise was working fairly well. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 21:32, 17 April 2006 (CDT)
::::::::I also thought it was working well. --[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:48, 17 April 2006 (EST)
::::::::The tag suggestes active editing. There really isn't that much active editing on it, just a point of view problem. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 21:35, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::::::::If all parties consider the issue fairly presented in an NPOV manner from all relevant perspectives, then there's no need for a tag at all. c.f. [[Sacred Scrolls]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:47, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

::::::::::The trouble is, I don't. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 23:22, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

I am still concerned about this. "Home, Part II" established that Baltar's internal Six isn't a "hallucination", so it doesn't seem fitting to put her under this title. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 23:30, 6 August 2006 (CDT)
:I have come up with a wild theory that Internal Six is not psychic, precognitive, etc. Baltar is and it manifests itself through Internal Six, which actually might raise more questions about him. If Internal Six is more than a hallucination, I think that she is not from the Cylons. I think that the end of Final Cut shows that. Cylons had no idea about Sharon and Hera. We may never exactly know the true nature of Internal Six, but I feel more comfortable with "hallucination." Just something to think about, I could be (and usually am) wrong. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:46, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

::I strongly believe that the Cylon process of becoming organic has caused ''something'' unexpected between Cylons and Colonials. It's as if a part of each of their souls have split off and was kept with the other. In particular, the event happens between a Cylon and a Colonial that have had near-death (or even death, as I've always believed) events ''at the same time'' (as Baltar and Caprica-Six have had). Tyrol and Boomer have had near-deaths, but not at the same time. Helo and Caprica-Valerii have not had such events. Both see their virtuals shortly after they return the abyss (Baltar's home, Caprica-Six's consciousness to the new body). Food for thought, but completely speculative. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:02, 18 August 2006 (CDT)
:::Ah, under that theory, we have a kind of Minbari-Human thing going on here... well, sorta. Interesting. Where's a triluminary when you need one? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 16:27, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

it is worth noting that Gaius exhibits symptoms such as: Paranoid Delusions (chip in head), Delusions of self worth/obsessive superstition (gods instrument, alleged prediction of Hera), Hallucinations (six), Disorganised speech (sometimes forced, varied syncopation) & sensory patterning (whenever he hallucinates, there is that ding ding ding music). To be flawed is to Human, the line between genius and insanity is thin. Is it possible the writers are trying to say something more profound, and not make us come up with far flung theories? --[[User:Acitcratna|Acitcratna]]

== Baltar as Cyclon god? ==

I have a theory about Baltar, sorry if this is an old one but I've not seen it anywhere before. What if Baltar (the original) is the Cylon god? He found the Cylon homeworld sometime before the events of the mini-series and helped the Cylons create their Human-like models. The Baltar with the fleet (and indeed the one on Caprica) are copies, possibly 'number 1' of the 12 models. Also, this is my first edit on this Wiki so please excuse me if this is the wrong place for this. --[[User:Deicist|Deicist]] 15:17, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
:[[Cylon agent speculation]] is a page about all the possaible cylons, but this is a neat theroy. However, RDM said that there was never a human copy. From the flawed tests of his Cylon detector, did indicate he was human. It's really iffy. A lot of stuff has contridicted that Baltar is not a cylon. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 15:32, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
::Personally, I think that the series loses "something" if Baltar is any more than a frakked up human being caught up in circumstances of his own making. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:40, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
:::The only characters who seem to be candidates for being the Cylon God (or part of it) are the Six & Baltar Hallucinations. They both basically controlled each faction (Cylons through Caprica Six, Humans through Baltar) into the position they are in right now (New Caprica), and it's all because of these two hallucinations. But either way, this is all speculation. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18:25, 31 August 2006 (CDT)
::::Sauron, that is a very astute observation. Food for thought. Although, I wonder if it some entity other than human or Cylon. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:48, 31 August 2006 (CDT)

== Added misc. hallucinations ==

Hello all. After seeings Three's download vision in Hero, I thought it might be put onto this page, since it features the opera house which before that episode existed only in Baltar's head. While I was adding that, I thought it best to put in some info on Roslin's dream of Leoben as well, since this page seems like the best place to keep track of all of these strange occurrences. Of course those who know more about how this site works might see fit to delete my additions; I just thought this was the best place for them. I also added another theory explaining virtual Baltar & Six that incorporates the dreams and visions. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 11:33, 20 November 2006 (CST)

Messengers

2006-11-20T17:29:14Z

Noindiecred: Added new section outlining miscellaneous other dreams and visions, and new theory (see talk)

[[image:Tigh_Me_Up_Tigh_Me_Down-Baltar_Six.jpg|thumb|Number Six and [[Gaius Baltar]] in his lab aboard ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''.]]
==Baltar's Internal Six==
Fleeing Caprica City and then the planet itself, Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] is shocked to discover that [[Caprica-Six|the woman he had a relationship with on Caprica]] lives on - inside his head.

At first he tries to dismiss her presence as a manifestation of his own guilt over what has happened to his people, and his role in it. However, Six suggests that she is in fact a controlled hallucination resulting from a chip she implanted inside his head. However, while some of her actions - such as terrifying Baltar into constructing a genuine [[Cylon detector]] ([[Bastille Day]]) - very much suggest she is a part of his own psyche, this is countered by her underlying actions and deeds, all of which represent a furtherance of those aims and goals she expressed as a corporeal entity. Some of these are characteristics never witnessed by Baltar himself - such as her jealous reaction to [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]]'s visit with Baltar in his lab ([[Flesh and Bone]]), which closely mirrors the jealousy [[Six#Caprican_Overseer_Copies|she]] shows towards the [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Valerii copy on Caprica]] ([[Litmus]], [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]).

Her existence as a personality download within Baltar's brain is a view he himself comes to embrace, as he relies more and more on her for guidance and insight into Cylon ways - so much so that she deliberately suggests that her presence within him is something of which other Cylons have no knowledge. However, in her relentless drive to get Baltar to fully accept the Cylon concept of God, it certainly '''seems''' for a time that not only are other Cylons in the fleet aware of her "existence", they are in communication with her: hence the arrival of "Shelly Godfrey" onboard ''[[Galactica]]'' with her accusations of treachery at the precise time Six ceases to communicate with Baltar.
[[image:brainscan.jpg|left|Baltar receives his brain scan from Dr. Cottle, as Six looks on in amusement.|thumb]]

When Baltar begins to deny Six's actual existence, she turns the tables on him by assuming a more 'natural' appearance and telling him that he is, indeed, "crazy" ([[Home, Part II]]). Baltar asks Dr. [[Cottle]] to perform a brain scan to check for anything unusual. "Nothing, nothing, more nothing" is the gruff diagnosis from Cottle. However, later in the same episode Baltar comes to believe that the Six he sees could could not possibly be a hallucination caused by him going "crazy", because she seems to know things (such as that [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] was pregnant) that his subconscious mind has no way of knowing. When confronted with this, Six agrees that she is not a product of Baltar's mind, although scans show no chip in his brain. When Baltar asks her what she really was, Six only replies that "I'm an angel of God sent here to protect you, to guide you and to love you". While Baltar may not have a conventionally visible chip in his head, it could conceivably be organically-based (like the [[Cylon agent]]s) and indistinguishable from other tissues in his brain or central nervous system. There was thought by many to be a remote chance that Baltar could be a Cylon agent himself (see the [[Cylon agent speculation]] article for arguments for and against Baltar as a Cylon agent), but later episodes have all but disproven this.

[[image:KobolHallu.jpg|thumb|Hallucinations on Kobol.]]
Not only does Baltar's former lover appear to him as herself in the context of his physical surroundings, but she can also make him see or experience an environment which is not real. Six has often interacted with him in the memory of his lakeside house on Caprica, which now exists purely in Gaius' mind ([[33]]). These visions have become less frequent as Dr. Baltar feels less nostalgic about his former dwelling ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]) .

The best example of Six's powers of illusion is during Baltar's ordeal on Kobol, in which he had a number of mass hallucinations. The first was during the traumatic crash of [[Crashdown|Lt. Crashdown]]'s Raptor. Six appeared to save Baltar's life by leading him through the flames unharmed. In reality, he was saved by Crashdown. The next vision was of the Forum and the City of the Gods, which he saw complete and undamaged. In this hallucination, Six leads him down the aisle of the Great Opera House onto the stage, where a white cradle awaits them. Six reveals to him there the plan that God has for Baltar and she, to create the [[Hera|next generation of God´s Children]]. (Interestingly enough, we later see that same cradle in [[New Caprica|New Caprica]], where baby Hera is kept.)

The next hallucination in Kobol also deals with the Cylon hybrid child. Baltar has a vivid dream in which ''Galactica'''s [[SAR]] team has arrived, with Adama leading the mission. Adama takes Baltar's child, and proceeds to drown her. When Baltar wakes up, he realizes that he must stop at nothing to ensure the survival of his baby, which seems to be exactly what Six wanted to see happen. Later, she tells him that one of their party will betray the others during the mission to destroy the Cylon missile battery preventing their rescue, and that to prove his worthiness as a father he must act like a real man for a change. This prompts him to take part in the mission as a scout, and later to kill Crashdown when he threatens [[Cally]]'s life.

When the [[Pegasus (RDM)|Battlestar Pegasus]] joins with the Fleet, Dr. Baltar is asked to examine their Cylon prisoner, [[Gina]]. Both the doctor and his Internal-Six are shocked and horrified to find that Gina (another Number Six version) has been tortured and gang-raped by the Pegasus crew. Six tearfully asks Baltar to help Gina, and he vows to do everything he can ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]). Her concern is replaced by jealousy and animosity, however, when she begins to suspect that Gaius is developing feelings for her "3-dimensional duplicate." Baltar learns from the suicidally depressed Gina that the large, previously unidentified vessel in the Cylon fleet following Galactica is the Resurrection Ship, where Cylon consciousnesses are downloaded into new bodies following the demise of their previous ones. Giving this information to Admiral [[Helena Cain|Cain]] and Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] results in the destruction of the ship and thus the permanent deaths of the Cylon agents aboard the [[Basestar (RDM)|Basestars]] guarding it, and of the attached squadrons of [[Raiders]]. Six proclaims that causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Cylons is an unforgivable sin, but Gina says that God will forgive Gaius and her. Baltar chooses to listen to Gina, and his internal Six temporarily vanishes ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

==Six's Internal Baltar==
[[image:LBlt.jpg|thumb|left|Turnabout is fair play.]]
In the episode "[[Downloaded]]" it is revealed that the vision of Number Six that Baltar sees everywhere is definitely not the same Number Six consciousness as the one he had a relationship with back on Caprica: [[Caprica-Six]]'s consciousness downloaded into a new body, and for nine months continued to live on Cylon-occupied Caprica. Within a few seconds, it it clear that "Caprica's" personality is completely different from the one in Baltar's head. Not only that, but just as Baltar has visions of her, Caprica-Six has persistent visions of [[Gaius Baltar]]. This image confronts her with her guilt in the slaughter of billions of human beings, and with the logical error behind the Cylons' actions. If murder, genocide, and vengeance are sins in the eyes of God when humans commit them, then why would God sanction the Cylons' mass murder of an uncountable number of unsuspecting people? Under the influence of Internal-Baltar, "Caprica" speaks out against the war alongside the reincarnated [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], and a new path is forged. This version of Baltar has yet to make another appearance.

The revelation in "[[Torn]]" about the Cylon's "projecting" abilities potentially sheds more light on the nature of Six's Baltar. This vision of Baltar is more than likely a manifestation of Caprica-Six's guilt and conflicted feelings appearing through her projection abilities.

When asked by a fan at a convention about the differences between this Baltar and the real Baltar, actor [[James Callis]] described Six’s Baltar as a man who “finally has his shit together.”

==Other hallucinations==

===Roslin's dream===
*A few months after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], [[Laura Roslin]] dreams that she is being pursued through a forest by a group of Marines. A copy of [[Leoben Conoy]] saves her, and then appears to be sucked away. Later, a copy of [[Leoben Conoy]] is found to be stowed away in the fleet, and he is executed by being sucked out an airlock exactly as he was in Roslin's dream. ([[Flesh and Bone]])

===Number Three's dreams and vision===
*The [[Number Three|Three]] acting as an overseer on New Caprica dreams that she visits the tent of [[Dodona Selloi]]. Three goes to visit Selloi when she awakens, and Selloi tells her she has a message from the Cylon [[God]]: [[Hera]] is alive and Three will hold her in her arms. Selloi's predictions prove to be accurate; Baltar finds Hera in the aftermath of the [[Battle of New Caprica]]. ([[Exodus, Part I]] and [[Exodus, Part II|II]])
*After the Cylons leave New Caprica, Three dreams that she is aboard Galactica, fleeing from a group of Marines. They corner her in front of a hatch marked "end of line" and execute her. When she awakens, Three orders a Centurion to shoot her, possibly believing her dream to be instruction from [[God]]. While she is downloading, Three finds herself in the [[Opera House]] on [[Kobol]] where Baltar's internal Six (above) showed him Hera's cradle. ([[Hero]])

==Theories==
There are various competing theories about the nature of the visions Baltar and Caprica-Six have of each other:

===Both are implanted chips===
In this theory, Number Six implanted a chip, containing one of her "sister" consciousnesses, into Baltar sometime before or during the attack on Caprica. Given the symmetrical nature of the hallucinations, the resurrected Caprica-Six must now have a chip of Baltar implanted in her brain. There are various pieces of evidence for this:
* This is the theory that the internal Six initially offers to Baltar
* The internal Six seems to know some pieces of information that Baltar does not; she offers Baltar a hint about a mysterious device in the ''Galactica'' CIC that leads to his uncovering of [[Aaron Doral]] as a Cylon agent; on the other hand, it could be that Baltar himself discovered the device but subconsciously transferred that part of his thinking to the hallucination of Six. Moreover, in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" she shows him a vision of a human-Cylon baby in a cradle that exactly matches the cradle that [[Hera]], the first human-Cylon baby, is later carried in. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

===Both are self-generated hallucinations===
In this theory, both Baltar and the resurrected Caprica-Six have begun hallucinating a vision of the other, in both cases as a psychological defense against massive feelings of guilt for their role in the near-destruction of humanity. There are various pieces of evidence for this:
* Both visions differ in personality from the people they represent; in both cases, the visions are confident and scoff at the failings of their subject; the real people remain guilt-ridden and indecisive.
* There is, as yet, no conceivable explanation for how a chip of Baltar could have been planted inside the resurrected Caprica-Six.
* After the Cylon takeover of [[New Caprica]], when Baltar and Caprica-Six resume their relationship, the internal Six appears to Baltar only when Caprica-Six is absent, indicating that he at some level does have control over her appearances. Though she did once appear upon Baltar's discovery of Hera in the abandoned city, with Caprica-Six only a few feet behind.
* Caprica-Six descibes the Cylon practice of "projecting" to Baltar, where the Cylons create their own reality around them by altering their perceptions somehow. This offeres a likely explanation to Six's Baltar, but only raises more questions about Baltar's Six.

===Both began as hallucinations, but the internal Six took on a life of its own===
This theory is similar to the general hallucinations one, but takes into account the bizarre events of the episode ''[[Six Degrees of Separation]]''. In that episode, Internal-Six warns Baltar that she will punish him for mocking her religious beliefs; she then disappears from his consciousness, and quickly thereafter a Six-model appears in the flesh on the ''Galactica'', claiming her name is [[Shelly Godfrey]], accusing him of treason. When it appears he may be executed on these false charges, a devastated Baltar accepts the [[God|Cylon God]] as his own; soon thereafter, "Godfrey" disappears from the ship and Internal-Six reappears to Baltar, pleased at his conversion. Under this theory, "Godfrey" was in fact a physical manifestation of Baltar's hallucination, created by some unexplained (and possibly never-to-be-explained) process.

===They really are messengers sent from God or the Gods===
Some force outside humanity and the Cylons is sending these two beings ([[W:Angel|angels]]) to Baltar and Six, along with the visions experienced by Roslin, Three, and Dedona Selloi. The angels and visions maysent by opposite sides of a celestial war (see [[Beings of Light]], [[War of the Gods]]), sent by the ''same'' side engaged in a war against both Cylon and Man, or sent by a supernatural being with another purpose altogether.

===Other theories===

* Baltar (a human, not an agent) actually died in the nuclear blast, but was somehow resurrected, (or, more plausibly, he had a near-death experience) with ''something'' of himself and Six becoming interchanged. Now a part of him is living in her, and vice versa. This would explain why the hallucination versions are in such stark contrast to the real versions, since they would be missing parts of themselves. It would also explain the "chip in Gaius'"- since he is in effect a "chip", and she is in him.
* Actor [[James Callis]]'s personal theory is that Baltar's Internal Six is a being from another universe or higher plane of existence who only Baltar can interact with. This may relate back to the "angel" theory [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNZZHl0Ls5U&mode=related&search=]. ('''Warning''': Video contains some explicit language)

The answers remain unknown.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:A Measure of Salvation/Archive 1

2006-11-13T04:33:52Z

Noindiecred: /* Some Poor Writing */

==Picture?==
Is that picture from A Measure of Salvation? I don't remember Three and Six projecting themselves into a forest. The outfits they are wearing look like what they wore while torturing Baltar, so maybe it's from a deleted scene. Unless I've forgotten the scene for some reason, shouldn't we get a picture that actually came from the episode? -- [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:10, 11 November 2006 (CST)

== Some Poor Writing ==

Attention to detail is what has set BSG apart from so many other science-fiction shows - including Mr. Moore's Star Trek franchises. So I was very disappointed last night to see the sloppy errors piling up deep. I'd have to see the epsiode again to list them all, but mainly them problems concerned the virus.

The scene where potentially infected Galactica crew are "quarantined", together with Sharon, in a room with cold-storage plastic flaps was ridiculous.

It's preposterous to think that a cylon would casually betray his race for the anti-viral drug. He has no assurance that he won't be double-crossed, and he certainly - even after torture - wouldn't spell out the danger the virus poses to the cylon fleet. The audience isn't stupid and neither should the Galctica crew be. Seeing Lee with a dim little lightbulb over his head was just insulting to us all.

Past episodes have cleary shown that cylon ressurection occurs over significant distances, (greater than FTL jumps), and that calls into question the fundemental logistics of Adama's infection plan.

There would be no reason to jump Galactica itself, just sending one raptor with a cylon transponder and one infected cylon would have done the trick. (Nevermind the ease with which two cylon raiders almost instantly materialize into a whole cylon fleet with a resurrectionship conveniently in tow.)

The analysis on the episode summary page provides an excellent plot device allowing the raid to "succeed" thus justifying the major build-up of the two part story. In fact, it would have made a superb three part arc.

Hypothetical episode 3: Spend some realistic period of time finding a reasonably sized cylon fleet, infect them, virus begins spreading throughout area covered by the "local" resurrection ship. Cylons scramble to head off disease, Baltar gains points by developing Hera vaccine, cylons survive but with major "body-blow" giving Galactica and fleet some breathing room as they prepare to investigate the new lead to Earth.

Please don't get me wrong, I love this show, but sci-fi writing has always been done on the cheap and it make my eyes roll as I struggle to care about characters forced through non-sensical plot contortions. Please, Mr. Moore, DON'T LET BSG SINK TO THE SAME SAD FATE! I'm trusting that this was just a hiccup not a trend.

--[[User:IanB|IanB]] 13:08, 11 November 2006 (CST)

:In defense of the writers, I think you are wrong on two points:
:*Jumping Galactica makes sense. In [[Scar]] Cylon Raiders are engaging in skirmishes despite the absence of a resurrection ship. A Raptor is not a big enough threat to guarantee the presence of a resurrection ship. If one isn't in range by accident the Cylons would probably engage the Raptor without it and take a minor risk of permanently loosing a few raiders. And after [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]] the Cylons could be exspected to take a closer look to any unexpected Raptors with a Cylon transponder showing up. If they destroy it without a resurrection ship in range, the plans failed. Also Racetrack stated last episode that there is a shortage of Raptors in the fleet, noone is going to be eager to sacrifice one. Jumping Galactica ensures the Cylon require lots of forces, expect lot's of casualties and have a resurrection ship nearby, though I could have done without seeing it arrive on the battlefield, that's bad and inconsistent strategy, just to make sure the audience knows that it is in range.

:*There is probably a greater timespan between arrival of the patrol and that of the strikeforce then shown onscreen. Helo manipulates the oxygen-system after the jump, nevertheless the prisoners are already dead by the time the resurrection ship appears, indicating a least a few minutes have passed. The process can be seen in [[Flight of the Phoenix]] in the firing range scene (it's likely that Helo manipulated the same system).

:Two more plotholes I noticed: How do the Colonials know the Cylon supply lines? And given that they know Athena is immune because she's given birth to a hybrid child, they should wonder if there a more human-cylon hybrids. Even without knowing that Hera is still alive, if the massive Cylon effort to create hybrids resulted in creating at least one more hybrid the cylons would take a blow, but would not be exstinct. By the way it would be nice if we would hear something about these efforts. When Hera is shown for the first time in Cylon hands would be a good opportunity to close that chapter with a throwaway line that all these efforts were fruitless and stopped. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 11:24, 12 November 2006 (CST)

:: That's an interesting question -- one that I had myself, actually. Even if the effort didn't destroy the Cylon race (and I think that goal is overly optimistic), the virus would have given a serious blow to the Cylons, which would only serve to give the survivors more breathing room -- not to metion the increase in general morale, which the survivors seriously need after the farce at New Caprica. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 16:53, 12 November 2006 (CST)

I would have to agree the writing is poor. The series seems to be drifting from its roots and moving into the Hollywood PC political statement world. This season has already thrown in suicide bombing and implied it was acceptable, now there is a drift into making political statements about biological weapons (even though nuclear weapons have been freely used in the past.) It seems the writers are abandoning their science fiction roots and reaching to make their own personal social or political commentary. I do hope they get back to what I considered truly exceptional science fiction and stop these editorials.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 00:06, 12 November 2006 (CST)

Followup: According to and article on the Gateworld site ([http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/news/2006/10/season_three_ratings_slip_from_premiere.shtml]) the ratings have been slipping. As much as I truly love this show, I know my wife and I were both rather disgusted with the previous inclusion of the suicide bombers and now the “loss of humanity” references associated with the potential use of biological weapons. I have also heard complaints from two of our friends. I’m concerned that if this direction is continued it will not only ruin the show, it will also drive away viewers resulting in cancelation. As a long time science fiction fan (I even remember watching the original showings of Lost in Space and the first Star Trek) this has been my all time favorite show up until now. I would hate to see it have an early demise. As I mentioned above, I hope the writers can return to science fiction and entertainment.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 16:13, 12 November 2006 (CST)

:: Ratings have been slipping for ''SG-1'' and ''Atlantis'' as well; neither have the strong allegories to today's world, or the world of yesteryear for that matter. So I don't fully buy that there's a direct correlation between the creative direction BSG is going and the loss in viewership. Actually, one could probably argue (more successfully in my informed opinion) that the loss of ratings has more to do with Sci-Fi's scheduling decisions of breaking up the "Three Amigos" (''Stargate SG-1'', ''Stargate Atlantis'' and ''Battlestar Galactica''). As for the "loss of humanity" and suicide bombing themes, these have existed since the miniseries (Number Five's suicide bombing attempt in "[[Litmus]]" and Adama's speech in the miniseries and platitudes since then). -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 16:53, 12 November 2006 (CST)

::: In my very informed opinion, I would have to disagree on several points. While time slots and lineup can affect ratings, this usually is reflected in those of the shows with the weaker individual draw. Galactica is a cornerstone show which should draw up the ratings for those around it rather than have such a slump from a lineup change.

::: As for the previous Friday lineup, SG-1 ratings have steadily declined since the departure of Richard Dean Anderson. His departure also seemed to coincide with decline in the quality of the writing, though I’m not convinced the two were related rather than just coincidental. I have always believed the SG Atlantis was the weak link in that lineup and was carried by its position between SG-1 and BSG. As mentioned in the article I referenced above, Dr. Who, which leads into BSG, has had poor ratings this season. I believe the replacement of the very likable actor playing the title role, though consistent with the original BBC series, was a detriment to this series. In addition, this season’s writing has seemed less creative and entertaining. I greatly enjoyed their first season, but have found the current one to be rather dull and uninteresting. This certainly doesn’t help with the Galactica ratings, but I don’t believe it is the major factor in the decline.

::: The introduction of controversial topics into plot lines is often risky, particularly with science fiction which is typically considered pure escapism, even when it has a dark element like BSG (i.e.: The potential extermination of the human race and the continued threat from the Cylon.) Generally, Sci-Fi fans want to escape the real world and be entertained, not lectured on the writers’ political or social views of modern events. While any controversial topic is a risk, the introduction of those that are currently so polarizing is almost a guarantee of distancing a significant portion of your fan base.

::: You associated the bombing executed by a Cylon against those carried out by human suicide bombers. The two aren’t even remotely comparable. The first was not executed by a human, was not condoned by the humans, and was executed by an individual who (as already had been established) would be reborn (“downloaded”) into a new body, but as the same individual. The later was not only condoned by members of the upper human leadership, it was presented as a reasonable and acceptable approach in a given situation – a strong statement considering current world events. (As someone who’s nephew’s squad was attacked by the first suicide bomber in the gulf war, killing many of his squad just a few yards in front of him, I will freely admit to strong personal feelings in this matter. None the less, such controversial plot elements are invariably going to strongly offend a significant number of viewers.) The inference that the humans must limit their use of weapons against an enemy bent on the genocide of humanity is another PC component. Biological weapons as a plot element would have been better completely left out rather than used as a mechanism for additional political commentary. Remember, people watch for entertainment, not a reminder of current events or a thinly disguised lecture from Hollywood writers on their political and social opinions.

::: It is also rather telling that the ratings dropped rather significantly after the season 3 premiere (where suicide bombings by humans were introduced and condoned.) I’ll be interested in seeing how the ratings are affected after this latest one sided (read: “PC”) foray into contemporary controversial issues.

::: --[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 20:40, 12 November 2006 (CST)

::::I doubt that the suicide bombings in Occupation and Precipice were "condoned" by the show. Roslin didn't like them. Tigh, who planned them, thought they were bad. Even Baltar (who's been developing a conscience this season, thank the Gods) didn't like them. The first was a waste of life and counterproductive, causing a massive Cylon freakout that would have killed off Roslin, Zarek, Cally and a bunch of other people if the resistance hadn't saved them in the last minute. The second took down the power grid, which was more helpful, but it should be noted that in this case the bomber didn't kill any civilians, just herself and some Cylons. Tigh is still suffering because of the choices he made on New Caprica, and it doesn't look like he's coming out of those moral woods anytime soon.

::::Furthermore, I don't think the show has condemned the use of the Cylon virus, either. Roslin was all about it, after all, and I don't think there's anything less PC than a schoolteacher with a Messiah complex jonesing for some genocide. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 22:33, 12 November 2006 (CST)

== Explanations ==

A note about the Resurection ship jumping into the battle... it would seem that this is actually a good tactical move from the Cylon perspective. After Pegasus and Galactica easily destroyed the first resurrection ship and it's escorts, it would be prudent for the Cylons to keep the new ship with their fleet... even if this means taking it into battle with them. From their point of view it might look as if Galactica was trying to sucker the baseships away from the resurrection ship so the colonials could attack it. They've already used the "sucker" strategy a number of times, we could just be seeing a Cylon reaction to that strategy. Bringing the ship with them would negate such a threat as several basestars (more than enough to hold galactica off) would be able to cover for it.

As far as supply lines, it would figure that Galactica would know about this. Basic military strategy is to harass or at least keep an eye on enemy supply lines.

Also a note about the raptors and their missiles. The colonials may have found, after the battle over new caprica, that the missile attachments for the raptors were effective and could be adapted for other (combat) uses as well. It would also figure that after the loss of Pegasus, the colonials would be trying everything they could to increase firepower. This is probably just a jury-rig solution for increasing galactica's firepower.

Talk:Unfinished Business/Archive 1

2006-11-10T21:01:59Z

Noindiecred: /* The 'stache strikes again */

== The 'stache strikes again ==

Sweet mother of Artemis, does this http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000psspt/g274 mean what I think it means??? (Major incredibly mindblowing spoilers.)--[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 14:34, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:Depends on what you think. "Unfinished Business" consists largely of flashbacks to the missing year --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:42, 10 November 2006 (CST)
::I'm thinking that, since Roslin was no longer president, Adama felt like he could follow up on their Resurrection Ship kiss. The cigarettes both of them are holding pretty much sum that up for me. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 14:54, 10 November 2006 (CST)
:::That kiss wasn't really romantic in nature (shippers aside). The two are friends and probably haven't seen each other for a couple of months. Adama seems to enjoy being able to see a sky above his head again --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:59, 10 November 2006 (CST)
::::Probably right. I just got excited. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 15:01, 10 November 2006 (CST)

Talk:Unfinished Business/Archive 1

2006-11-10T20:54:22Z

Noindiecred: /* The 'stache strikes again */

2006-11-08T18:59:27Z

Noindiecred: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| title= Torn
| image=Season 3 - Promo - Epi 5 - StarbuckTighAdama.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 6
| guests=
| writer= [[Anne Cofell Saunders]]
| story=
| director= [[Jean de Segonzac]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-03
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,422
| prev= [[Collaborators]]
| next= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
}}
== Overview ==
:''Part one of two. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] create divisions between those who suffered under the Cylon occupation of [[New Caprica]] and those who stayed with the fleet. Meanwhile, [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] tries to prove his worth to the Cylons. <ref name="TVGuide">{{cite_web|url=http://www.tvguide.com/detail/tv-show.aspx?episodeid=6006095&tvobjectid=191395&more=ucepisodelist|title=Episode Detail for Torn at www.tvguide.com}}</ref>

== Summary ==

=== On [[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]] ===
* ''Galactica'''s air group runs war game exercises among the viper pilots. Captain Thrace breaks formation during the exercise and collides with another pilot, forcing an end to the war games, and causing Apollo to remove her from flight duty.
* [[Gaeta|Felix Gaeta]] meets with [[Laura Roslin]], [[William Adama]], and [[Saul Tigh]] to discuss matters Baltar related. During the year before the Cylon Occupation of New Caprica, Baltar was obsessed with analyzing the data from Kobol to find the path to Earth. Based on passages in the [[Pythia|Scrolls of Pythia]], Baltar identified a nebula he believed to be a landmark on the road to Earth.
* Upon Thrace's return to her bunk, she is met by Kacey and her mother, whom she dismisses, telling the Kacey's mother not to come again.
* In the pilots' mess, Lt. [[Sharon Agathon]] is given the callsign "[[Athena]]." Thrace and Tigh begin to sow dissent between the survivors of New Caprica and the crew that stayed behind on ''Galactica''
* Adama confronts Thrace and Tigh on their behavior. He challenges them to shoot him, as their constant complaining is tantamount to pulling the trigger. When neither do, Adama demands they shape up and move on with their lives.
* Spurred by Adama's words, Thrace cuts her hair and appears to return to duty. Later, in uniform, she visits [[Kacey]] and her mother.
* Meanwhile, Tigh returns to his room and begins drinking to excess, finishing off one bottle and starting another.
* In a Raptor, Athena and Racetrack jump into range of the Lion Head's Nebula, and are excited to find what the Scrolls described. They quickly realize, however, that they have jumped right next to the dying Basestar.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|Basestar]] ===
*[[Gaius Baltar]], onboard the Cylon basestar, is having another hallucination. On a sunny beach, Gaius praises Six for returning to him in his time of need, and states that he enjoys having conversations with her. Six implores him to learn anything and everything about the Cylons, as he will need the information in the days ahead. Six also tells him that the Cylons use forms of projection to see the world around them, and when asked what she is, Six tells Baltar that she is an angel of God.
*Having been allowed to stay on the [[Basestar]], [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Three]] talk with Baltar later on, inquiring about the location of [[Earth]]. Gaius initially denies having any knowledge of where Earth is, but then reveals that he does have clues as to where its probable location is. He then finds out that the [[Cylons]] intend to find Earth so they can use it as their new home.
*Baltar is apprehensive about helping the Cylons, and Caprica-Six tells him that the Cylons are also leery as to whether his intentions are true or not. Caprica-Six leads Baltar through the ship, telling him that she uses a projection of a forest to navigate the ship. In his mind, Baltar realizes that his form of projection is similar to what the Cylons are using, causing him to question whether he is human or a Cylon.
*Caprica-Six informs Gaius that his rescue of [[Hera]] and his assistance in finding Earth has made him a valuable asset, and has gone a long way in impressing the Cylons. Baltar asks why there are only 7 models on the ship, and inquires about the remaining 5 models. Caprica-Six informs him that they don't talk about it. He asks whether they would recognize one of the others, but their conversation is interrupted by Three before she can answer.
* Three informs Caprica-Six that there is a situation, and a [[Five]] states that the basestar that went to check the pulsar has not responded back. The group head to a control center, where Baltar finds out that the missing basestar has been infected by a disease, and that any Cylon that dies and uploads to a [[Resurrection Ship]] will spread the virus even further. On the urge of his internal Six, Baltar offers to board the infected basestar and collect scientific information.
* Before he leaves on his mission, Baltar encounters the Cylon hybrid that controls the functions of the basestar. The hybrid is hooked into the systems on the ship, and continually vocalizes her seemingly non-sensical thoughts. Caprica-Six informs Gaius that it is thought by most of the Cylon models that the hybrid has gone insane from being connected to the [[Basestar]] and that her words hold no meaning, however the [[Leoben]] model takes the hybrid's words as coming from God.
* The Cylons provide Baltar with a Raptor to board the baseship, and when he arrives, he finds numerous Cylons, either dead or dying. He collects blood samples and takes pictures of the area to bring back for analysis, and also finds a large manmade object in the hold of the ship. He then finds a dying [[Six]] model (curiously with black hair), who informs him that the device the Cylons captured, a probe left by the [[13th Colony]], infected all of them, and wants to die so she can be released from her pain. Even though Gaius offers to bring her help, she tries to attack him, and Gaius strangles her to death.
* Upon his return to the Basestar, Gaius denies finding anything that could have caused the outbreak of the virus, but Caprica-Six notices the probe object in Baltar's picture, but doesn't let on to anyone else what she has discovered.

== Questions ==
* Would it be possible for the Colonials to salvage the derelict basestar for their own purposes?
* What has happened to the remaining five Cylon models? Are they so secretive that none of the other 7 variants have any knowledge of them? Did the Cylons permanently box the other models because they were dissenters to the cause of the Cylon race?
* What is Caprica-Six going to do now that she realizes Baltar may be withholding critically sensitive information?
* Cally and Chief Tyrol as seen both working on the deck. Who is taking care of their baby? Has a system been put in place to take care of crewmembers' babies?
* Is Athena infected with the Cylon virus?
* As the probe is supposed to come from the 13th Tribe, and is affecting Cylons, does that mean that Cylons have been exisiting in times of the 13th Tribe? (or is just by accident that is viral for Cylons?)
** What is the "genetic pool" that the human form Cylons all come from, and has it existed for longer than the Cylons themselves?
** Could the people on Earth be aware <i>currently</i> that the Cylons are after them, and have sent the probe to hinder the Cylons' efforts?
** The probe may have worked this time, but now the Cylons are aware of the danger it presents, and they won't fall for it again. Does that mean that for each of the 12 constellations, there will be a new "trick" that Earthlings use to hinder the Cylons' efforts to find Earth?
* Is the virus biological or technological in nature? The "inevitable once we took human form" and "genetic pool" lines indicate that the Cylons think it is biological. On the other hand, their belief that it could survive through a download process implies that it is technological in nature (i.e. computer virus). This would seem to be a contradiction.
* Why did then-President Baltar investigate clues to Earth's location, given that he advocated abandoning that very search in his election campaign?

== Analysis ==
*The crew-position shuffle continues from last episode, but some definite decisions have been made:
**Lee has been demoted back to Major, and has resumed the CAG slot, with Kat and Hot Dog as senior pilots under him. Kara is as well, until Lee revokes her flight status for reckless behaviour.
**As mentioned, it seems Kat has been demoted from CAG to leader of Blue Group (Although "Blue Group" may only exist for training purposes and not be a permanent viper squadron).
**As implied in "Collaborators", Helo has resumed the XO slot aboard ''Galactica''.
**Gaeta appears to have inherited Baltar's mantle as the scientific advisor (it is unclear whether he holds any additional positions), and is focusing his efforts on refining a course for Earth.
**Cally is shown working the flight deck alongside her husband, showing that she is once again active in the Fleet.
*Following her actions during the Battle of New Caprica, Sharon seems to have garnered some degree of acceptance among the ''Galactica'' air group.
*Sharon Agathon is given the callsign "Athena" in this episode. As [[Hot Dog]] states, it is the name of a [[Athena, Lord of Kobol|Lord of Kobol]]. It is also the name of [[Athena (TOS)|Adama's daughter]] in the original series, and may be a metafictional allusion to the now-close relationship between Sharon and William Adama.
*The Baseship hybrid appears to be viewed by the Cylons in the same way as the Centurions and Raiders. The hybrid has no vote in the Cylon decision-making process, despite its ability to express its thoughts and feelings, after a fashion.
*The Cylons have a [[Raptor]] and [[flight suit]] at their disposal, possibly acquired during the occupation of [[New Caprica]]. This raises the possibility that the Cylons may have other Colonial ships in their possession.

== Notes ==

*According to an [http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/4175/58/ interview] with executive producer [[David Eick]], episodes 5 and 6 are a two-part story in which ''Galactica'' discovers a dying Cylon Baseship, and deals with a plague that has befallen the Cylons. (Eick is counting "Occupation" and "Precipice" as one episode.)
*The phrase "end of line," uttered by the Cylon hybrid in this episode, is a possible reference to the film ''Tron'', in which the Master Control Program finishes its sentences with "end of line."

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

''Adama's feelings towards, and regarding, Starbuck'':

'''Adama''': You were like a daughter to me once - no more. You're malcontent and a cancer, and I won't have you on my ship. So you have a choice - you can figure out how to become a human being again, and an officer; or you can find another place to live, off of this ship. You're dismissed.

''The Hybrid's objecttion to leaving the infected Basestar behind'':

'''Hybrid''': Mists of dreams drip along the nascent echo, and love no more. End of line.

== Guest Stars ==

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Jean de Segonzac]]
[[Category:RDM]]