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Daybreak, Part II

2009-03-27T22:17:32Z

Nevfennas: /* Questions */ answer

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{{Episode Data
| image=Battleofthecolony.jpg
| title= Daybreak, Part II & Part III
| season= 4
| episode= 20
| guests=
| writer= [[Ronald D. Moore]]<ref>http://rondmoore.com/Site/Blog/Entries/2008/4/18_Podcast_Success!.html</ref>
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=422
| rating=1.7<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.nbcumv.com/scifi/release_detail.nbc/scifi-20090324000000-4242update58.html|title='Battlestar Galactica Finale Blasts Away the Competition|date=24 March 2009|accessdate=25 March 2009|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>/2,364,000 viewers (Live+SD)<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/24/wwe-raw-hannah-montana-and-northern-lights-lead-cable-show-rankings/15073|title=WWE RAW, Hannah Montana and Northern Lights lead cable show rankings|date=24 March 2009|accessdate=25 March 2009|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>
| US airdate=March 20, 2009
| CAN airdate=March 20, 2009
| UK airdate=March 24, 2009
| dvd=
| population=
| prev=[[Daybreak, Part I]]
| next=[[The Plan]]
| extra='''Series Finale - 2 Hour Episode'''<ref>http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/06/battlestars-fin.html</ref>
| forumthread=3050
}}

== Overview ==

===Act 1===

The final episode begins with a series of events before before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Fall]].
*In a strip bar in [[Caprica City]], [[William Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh|Saul]] and [[Ellen Tigh]] enjoy themselves. Adama questions whether to take a civilian job, rather than to take command of an aged battlestar<ref>This is a side reference to the events of the episode, "[[Hero]]"</ref> Over drinks, Adama decides to take the job.
*Elsewhere on Caprica, [[Lee Adama]] is having dinner with [[Kara Thrace]] and her fiancee, [[Zak Adama]]. Zak questions why his brother joined the [[Colonial Forces]], despite Lee's idealism and his dislike of his father. Lee simply answers that he received college funding in exchange for service.
*Elsewhere, [[Laura Roslin]] greets her date, [[Sean Allison]], at her home. After realizing he seemed familiar, Roslin finally recalls where she had seen him. Sean was a former student from years ago. Despite the age difference, Roslin decides to let him stay the night. "The night's young. Apparently, so are you," she says. "Let's see what happens."
*Back at the strip bar, Bill Adama challenges Saul on whether he'd take the civilian desk job. Saul doesn't answer.
*Lee Adama and Thrace manage to drag Zak to a couch after a night of drinking. But Thrace isn't done, and pulls out more alcohol for shots between her and Lee.
*Bill Adama is drunkenly sick, vomiting outside somewhere on the street. With a weak smile, he looks up to the stars in the night sky.

Aboard ''[[Galactica]]'', [[Gaius Baltar]] sits in the former home of his [[Cult of Baltar|followers]], now empty. He listens to the [[Virtual Beings|Virtual Six]], telling him to trust in [[God (RDM)|God's]] plan for him. When he asks what that plan is, she tells him that he already following it. Paulla interrupts his conversation, but Baltar asks for five minutes before he leaves.

===Act 2===
Aboard ''[[Galactica]]'', final preparations are made for the mission...
* In [[sickbay]], Dr. [[Cottle]] leaves assistant [[Layne Ishay]] two injections of heavy medication to allow Laura Roslin enough lucidity and mobility for 48 hours. She thanks him sincerely, causing Cottle to be something he'd rarely been: speechless.
* In the [[pilot ready room]], [[Karl Agathon]] briefs the [[Raptor]] teams on the special nature of their rescue mission. Despite the odds, all volunteer.
* Lee Adama briefs the [[marines]] on where little Hera would likely be: deep inside the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] [[The Colony|colony]].
*In CIC, Admiral Adama work out the tactics of the battle against the colony; Close-range combat - no nuclear weapons and missiles. He orders the gun [[battery|batteries]] to fire until exhausted, and after that, "start throwing rocks," he says with a small smile.
* The [[Final Five]] plan to use [[Samuel Anders]], now effectively a [[Hybrid]] on ''[[Galactica]]'', to interface with the Colony and its Hybrids to interrupt their commands and slowing the Colony's weapon systems. The catch is that Anders will need to be connected to the [[DRADIS]], fire control and [[C-3]] systems. They plan to take Anders and connect him inside the [[CIC]].
* In CIC, Saul Tigh jokes at his old friend at the bizarre sight of a Cylon interfaced to his battlestar, gooey wires and conduit that extend over Adama's command console everywhere and into the DRADIS console. "Still not too late to flush them all out of the airlock," Tigh quips. "Take too much time," Adama answers.
* Admiral Adama hands over command of the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] to [[Hoshi]], noting that if they aren't back from the mission in 12 hours, they will never come back. Similarly, Lee Adama appoints [[Romo Lampkin]] as President of the Twelve Colonies. He joins Admiral Hoshi on the last Raptor to leave ''Galactica'' for the baseship, the Fleet's new flagship.
* Baltar's followers get in the ship. Baltar enters, but then tells [[Paulla]] that he must stay on the ship. Lee Adama throws Baltar a weapon. As Baltar is given a weapon, a Number Six leads a large number of [[Cylon Centurion]]s down the [[hangar deck]]; a red sash painted on them for identification.

===Act 3===

A shot of the Fleet shows that the rebel [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]] fully regenerated since the [[Cylon Civil War]], and ready to lead the civilians to safety. ''Galactica'' separates from the fleet, retracting its [[flight pod]]s to prep for [[FTL]].

Adama asks to go "around the horn", with the [[Saul Tigh|XO]] calling out combat stations over the loudspeaker.
*In sickbay, Layne Ishay prepares sickbay for wounded, with Laura Roslin assisting as best she can.
*[[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]] are in [[launch tube]]s, and the entire Raptor squadron, armed with troops and missiles, have been placed inside the starboard flight pod deck, amidst the ruins of the old [[Galactica Museum]].
*Lee Adama and his force of marines (including Sergeant [[Allan Nowart]]) and red-striped centurions take their positions.
*Gaius Baltar is a soldier protecting the hallways against boarders. He is surprised to find [[Caprica-Six]] by his side.
*In CIC, Ellen Tigh signals that Anders is ready to work.
*Adama gives a final speech, a final understanding and call to arms.

The battlestar jumps away from the fleet, and [[Battle of the Colony]] begins...
*''Galactica'' arrives only meters from the edge of the Colony, and is immediately besieged by the Cylon batteries.
*Ellen starts up Sam Anders, who makes contact with the Colony Hybrids and takes them and the guns offline. Ellen warns that [[Cylon Raider]]s will appear any minute.
* ''Galactica'' responds by launching its fighter wings. The Vipers launch, and the Raptors jump directly from within the starboard pod to the opposite side of the Colony in a flanking position. The Raptor jumps, however, cause massive damage to the pod, with gas venting outside from a gaping hole.
* Adama orders the battlestar's engines ahead at flank speed, ramming the alligator head into the Colony. ''Galactica's'' inhabitants take a beating, but breach the Colony through the forced entry. Lee Adama leads his marines and several Cylon Centurions inside from a front airlock.
*[[Racetrack]] and [[Skulls]] arm their nuclear missiles, presumably to strike the colony after the rescue. But suddenly a piece of debris strikes their Raptor, killing all aboard and leaving the Raptor adrift.
*Several Raptors, including the one with [[Sharon Agathon]], Helo, and Starbuck, dock and make their way into the colony.
*Deep inside the Colony, a [[Simon]] works on young Hera as [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] looks on in disgust. When she questions why he continues to work on Hera, the Simon explains that they maintain and superior force and numbers. Boomer assaults the Simon, snapping his neck, and takes Hera out of the room.

===Act 4===

* The Colony's halls are filled with gunfire. Cylon Centurions, including older [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Model 0005s]] fight each other as the Colonial fire teams push through.
* [[Cavil]], a [[Number Five]] and another Simon decide to go on the offensive, to attack the battlestar with their troops.

* In a hallway in ''Galactica'', ready to repel boarders, Caprica-Six and Baltar come to terms with their old relationship. As they kiss, they hear a Six's voice. "All of the pieces are falling into place."
* The Virtual Six--''and'' the Virtual Baltar--stand above them. To the surprise of Caprica-Six and Baltar, they can hear and see each of the avatars.
* With a shudder, the battlestar hull is breeched as waves of enemy Centurions, both old-model and modern, pour into the ship.

* The Agathon's team find Boomer, holding Hera. She gives the child to them, telling them to tell Admiral Adama that she "owed him one." With the child safe, Athena shoots Boomer.
* A flashback scene shows what Boomer meant: a time back in her days on '''Galactica'', as Adama and Tigh redress her but give her another chance to be a better pilot.

* Ishay has her hands full in sickbay, trying to triage and treat as many people as she can. The event is taxing, physically and mentally, for Roslin, as she comforts more dying than not.

* Lee Adama's team connects with Starbuck's team, with Hera in tow. When Lee asks where Thrace was, she answers, "Stopped for coffee."<ref>This might be the one time in the history of the series where an obvious joke to [[w:Starbucks Coffee|Starbucks Coffee]] has been used.</ref> With their objective complete and no other Colonial troops found, they head back to the battlestar's alligator-head.

* ''Galactica'' batteries are being targeted by Raiders. She is losing what little defensive ability she has left. Enemy forces are coming at the reserve forces--where Baltar waits.

===Act 5===

* Caprica-Six and Baltar hold off the enemy Centurions. Baltar's passion at killing Centurions gets a bit out of control as Lee Adama's team reenter the battlestar with Hera. As more enemies appear, Lee and Baltar fire away.
* Laura Roslin sits and experiences yet another vision of the [[Opera House]] and little Hera. Struggling to walk, driven by something she can't fully realize, she gets up to find Hera.
* Starbuck leads the Agathons through the hallways, but a Number Five appears from behind, seriously wounding Helo in the leg and killing a marine before Starbuck eliminates him. A damaged, but still functioning enemy Centurion shows up and in the confusion, Hera runs away. Athena runs after her at the request of her wounded husband.
* Hera walks amidst the gunfighting, when soon she encounters Roslin, who pulls out of the path of an enemy patrol and to safety. But when Roslin turns back to the child, she is gone again.
* Caprica-Six and Baltar are running, and are out of ammo. Suddenly they see Hera, as well as Roslin and Athena--all grouped together as in the Opera House vision. Caprica-Six scoops up the child and enters a hallway, closing the hatchway, preventing Athena and Roslin from following. The opera house vision had Caprica-Six and Baltar closing the door on boht Athena and Roslin after picking up Hera.
* As the scene shifts between visions of the Opera House and the corridors, Baltar and Caprica-Six realize what they must do: follow their vision into the Opera House--which turns out to be CIC, where the Final Five reside, overlooking the lower deck of CIC as they appeared in the vision, standing above.
* Adama and his men have apparently just finished defending the CIC from a break-in by Cavil, a Doral and a Simon. The Doral and the Simon are dead, and Cavil is under guard. An explosion rocks the CIC, and Cavil picks up a gun and grabs Hera as a shield.
* Baltar pleads for the child's freedom, telling Cavil that Hera is key to humanity's survival as well. He reasons with Cavil that there are higher forces at work, that led them all, here, for a reason. Baltar also reveals that he has been visited by angels - the agents of God. When Cavil questions if God has his people's interests at heart, on how Baltar knows that God is on his side, Baltar replies (in an allusion of something [[The Hand of God (RDM)| Virtual Six once told him]]), "God is not on anyone's side." The Virtual Six and Virtual Baltar look on with a pleased expression.
* Baltar asks Cavil to take a leap of faith. Saul Tigh sweetens the pot by offering to reteach Cavil the secret of [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]], this time in exchange not only for Hera's life but for permanent peace, where the Cylons leave humanity alone.
* Cavil agrees. He uses the Battlestar comm to order his forces to stand down and releases Hera. Admiral Adama orders stand-down as well.

===Act 6===

* Vipers and Raptors return to ''Galactica'' as the Raiders return to the Colony. Laura Roslin joins the admiral in CIC.
* The Five each know part of the secret to resurrection. They will combine their knowledge by connecting themselves through the water in Ander's tank. Ellen Tigh tells the others that the process will also share memories as well as data.
* But before they begin, [[Tory Foster]], visibly anxious, warns the others that they will see "certain things" of their bad behavior. She tries to prepare the others of what they will see of her. An impatient Cavil screams. "I don't mean to rush you, but you are keeping two civilizations waiting!"
* The Five dip their hands and make the connection. As the data flows to the Colony, Foster's visions of murdering [[Cally Tyrol]] in an effort to protect her secret of being a Cylon comes to the forefront, surprising the others of the Five, and angering [[Galen Tyrol]] immediately.
* Tyrol pulls his hand from the pool and wraps both hands tightly around Foster's neck in a death-grip, eventually snapping her neck.
* As Anders screams from the sudden disconnection, the Cylons in CIC believe they are deceived and open fire. The Colonials kill all but Cavil, who shouts an exasperated "[[Frak]]!" before putting his pistol in his mouth and pulling the trigger.

* High above, as the Raiders begin attacking ''Galactica'' again, [[Racetrack]]'s damaged Raptor drifts, its crew lifeless. A rock strikes the ship, causing Racetrack's dead hand to strike the firing button to the Raptor's tactical nuclear missiles, launching them all straight at the Colony.
* The force of the explosions severely damage the Colony, pushing it towards the black hole, threatening to take ''Galactica'' with it.
* Adama orders Kara Thrace to make a [[blind jump]], but Thrace thinks about [[The Music|the music her father played]], the music that Hera wrote to her. Recalling the mathematical associations she tried to discern from the music, Thrace realizes the music works as a series of FTL coordinates.
* She punches in the coordinates into the [[Computers|navigation computer]] and jumps the ship.

* A flashback scene appears where Lee Adama and Kara Thrace talk about how she [[The Destiny|thinks about death]] every time she gets into a cockpit.

* ''Galactica'' completes the jump--but the strain of the last battle causes the battlestar's structure to ripple and twist as structural members tear and break. The ship will never jump again. Engines and life support are still online, but ''Galactica's'' backbone is broken.
* "Where have you taken us, Kara?" Roslin asks, as the scene changes to an exterior shot to show the battlestar flying over a gray, rocky moon.
* But is not just a moon...''Galactica'' has arrived at the ''moon of Earth''...another Earth, this one with the continent of Africa in prominent view.

===Act 7===
[[File:Battlestar Over Africa.jpg|thumb|right|200px|right|A crippled ''Galactica'' seen in orbit over the Sahara Desert.]]
* The Fleet jumps into Earth orbit as ''Galactica'' passes by. A Raptor came to Hoshi to guide them to Earth.
* Landing ship after landing ship leave for the new world.
* On a green, rich savannah in Africa, Admiral Adama, Cottle, Saul Tigh, Hoshi, and Baltar look on, lying prone on their stomachs with binoculars at a tribe of early humans. Cottle confirms that the native humans are compatible with the Colonials genetically.
* At a camp, as Lampkin considers a building of a new city, Lee Adama tells him to let humanity start all over again, leave their technology behind, which has almost always gotten them into trouble. Let the Colonials enter Earth with just their basic possessions.

* Admiral Adama maps out a plan to populate various continents and land masses, spreading out humanity and Cylon far and wide, distributing supplies to give all a good chance of survival. To Lampkin's surprise, the peoples of the Fleet take a liking to leaving technology behind.
* A [[Number Two]] tells Adama that the remaining Twos, Sixes, and Eights will stay on Earth as well, handing over the baseship to the Centurions, to give them their own freedom. When Lampkin questions if setting the Centurions free won't cause another holocaust hundreds of years from now, Ellen Tigh agrees it's a risk, but believes the cycle of death has been ended. Adama agrees.
* Adama tells that, after everyone is offloaded from the ships, the Fleet will reunite with '''Galactica'' a final time. Piloted by Samuel Anders, still in his tank in CIC, connected into the battlestar, he will fly all the ships on a final voyage into the Sun.

* Kara Thrace, eyes filled with tears, meets with Anders at his tank, kissing him goodbye for the last time, and leaving her [[dog tags]]. As she leaves, he mutters, "I'll see you on the other side."

===Act 8===

* Admiral William Adama descends into the hangar deck, wearing a [[flight suit]]. The deck is otherwise completely empty of anything, and anyone.
* He takes a seat in a [[Viper Mark II]]. Not just any Mark II...but the one that Galen Tyrol's team rebuilt for him as a retirement gift [[Miniseries, Night 1|so long ago]].
* As Adama's Viper launches, the scene shifts to six years prior, where Adama is taking a lie detector test for the prospective desk job. When the test administrator asks him test questions such as, "Are you a Cylon?" and "Have you ever stolen money from a cash drawer?" Adama is angered and leaves, saying, "I'd rather spend the rest of my career--what's left of it--on a broken old down ship, than to have someone sit here and question my word."
* Husker's Viper makes a final fly-by of the old battlestar, looking at her one last time before pointing his Viper towards Earth.
[[File:The fleet's end.jpg|thumb|180px|right|The [[fleet]] heading straight into the Sun.]]
* Samuel Anders' voice from the past talks of his days in sport, dreaming of perfection, and being linked to it, to creation, as Anders guides the Fleet, now united to the mathematical perfection he once spoke of through his duties as a Hybrid.
* As the [[Colonial_Anthem|Colonial Anthem]]--a version of the [[Original Series]] main theme--plays, the scene shows ''Galactica'' and the Fleet gathered a final time, heading away from Earth and towards the sun to its demise.

* Walking in the savannah, the Tighs speak with Galen Tyrol a final time. He has decided to go to the northern highlands of Earth (likely Scotland <ref>http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/03/battlestar_galactica_ronald_d.html</ref>). The scene shifts to the Tighs, partying back in Caprica City, once upon a time.

===Act 9===

* On the plains, Bill Adama sits with Laura Roslin, watching herds of gazelle. Her vision weakening, she tries to use her glasses with the binoculars. "A very beautiful world," she says. When she asks what the name of the planet is, Adama tells her it's Earth. He adds, "Earth is a dream," believing that their new home, a long-sought destination, deserves the name.
* Roslin's breathing becomes labored and shallow. Adama offers to give her a better look at the wildlife. He picks her up and carries her to a nearby Raptor.
* Lee Adama and Kara Thrace notice and meet Bill Adama there. The Adamas hug, and Bill Adama gives Thrace a final greeting of "[[Nothing but the rain]]" before he hugs and kisses her. Thrace and Lee wave goodbye to a smiling Roslin as the Raptor ascends.

* Lee realizes that his father isn't coming back. Kara Thrace tells Lee that she isn't coming back, either. "I just know that I am done here. I've completed my journey...and it feels good."

* A flashback scene, back in Thrace's apartment, where Thrace dares Lee to make love to her on her dining room table. But before they could do anything, the crash of a glass partially awakens Zak, causing the two to realize what they were doing. They shake hands and say goodbye.

* "Today is the first day of the rest of your life, Lee," Kara Thrace says. As Lee tells her of desire to explore and climb mountains, he turns to find that Kara Thrace has vanished, as if she were a ghost. "Goodbye, Kara," he says. "You won't be forgotten."
* A flashback scene shows the pigeon that would be trapped in Lee's apartment after his visit to Kara and Zak. It looks at Lee and flies out of the window and away.

* In another flashback from six years prior, Laura Roslin returns to stand by the side of the bed, thanks Sean Allison, but tells him that they will not meet this way again, and asks him to leave. As the man leaves, Roslin returns to her bathroom, lights a cigarette, then makes a phone call. She accepts the opportunity to work on Mayor [[Richard Adar]]'s campaign.

* Bill Adama's Raptor flies over flamingos. "So much..life," Laura Roslin says...her final words as she closes her eyes and quietly passes.
* Moments go by before Bill realizes that she is gone.
* In tears, Bill removes his wedding ring and places it on Laura's hand. "Right there...I'm going to build our cabin right there," he says, pointing to some hills.

===Act 10===

* A line of people walk into the wilderness, calm and ready to take on the world. Romo Lampkin appears to be in charge. Saul and Ellen Tigh bring up the rear.
* The Agathons walk as well, Helo using a makeshift crutch, talking of hunting and other pleasantries. Hera runs about in play, a smile on her face.

* Gaius Baltar and Caprica-Six look on at Hera playing as the Virtual Six and Baltar reappear. When Caprica-Six questions if the protection of Hera was all that God wanted of them, the Virtual Six replies, "God's plan is never complete." "Great..." Baltar replies sullenly.
* Virtual-Baltar counters, "I think it's safe to say that, from now on, your lives will be less...eventful."

* Another flashback to Caprica City. Baltar offers Caprica-Six an opportunity to "peek" into the [[Colonial Defense Mainframe]].

* When Baltar points to some land, he recalls his heritage, and [[Julius Baltar|his father]], and that he knows a bit about farming, to a bit of tears.

* Bill Adama sits, looking out into the hills and valley. "I laid out the cabin today. It's going to have an easterly view. You should see the light that we get here. When the sun comes from behind those mountains. It's almost heavenly. It reminds me of you."
* As he speaks, the camera pans up to show Adama, seated near the cairn he built for Laura Roslin's body.

* The scene turns to show Hera playing and looking upward. Scenes of wood and desert and sea pass by in a geologic montage to reveal an Earth city - New York City - 150,000 years later.

* As a fly-over of the city appears, a voice-over of Virtual-Six reads from a magazine article of the Tanzanian discovery of the bones of what scientists believe are the remains of the [[w:mitochondrial Eve|mitochondrial Eve]], the matrilineal common ancestor of mankind.

* As [[Ron D. Moore|a man reads]] about the scientific discovery, the Virtual Six and Baltar look over his shoulder at a magazine article of the news, and reveal what they know...the bones are that of Hera Agathon, born of a Cylon mother and a human father. No other people on the street appear to notice them.

* The two talk of the technology and decadence, of whether this Earth will repeat the mistakes of generations past and again become overwhelmed by their creations. The Six thinks not, believing it to be God's plan.

* "You know it doesn't like that name," Baltar says. Six only looks back in mild defiance. "Silly. Silly me," he replies as the two walk away into the metropolis.

* The episode concludes with scenes of robots, from toys to advanced automatons growing and evolving, as Jimi Hendrix's--Earth's popular version--of "[[The Music|All Along The Watchtower]]" plays, ending with an image of [http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news-10744-Robot+or+Human%3F+Here%27s+ACTROID.html an attractive-looking female automaton] gazing out over Times Square from a giant outdoor television screen as Six and Baltar walk off into the distance.

== Notes ==
:''See [[Daybreak, Part II/Notes]]''

== Analysis ==
===Who and what guided them===
*The coordinates that Thrace enters, 1123 / 6536 / 5321 correspond to the notation of the Final Four theme [http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/theme-watchtower.jpg]. The song is in a C# Phrygian scale (enharmonic with A major and F# minor). 1 represents C#, and each higher integer indicates the next note in the scale, such that

:1 = C#
:2 = D
:3 = E
:(4 = F#)
:5 = G#
:6 = A
:(7 = B)

:The linked graphic omits the first and last note of the theme, but both can be heard in the soundtrack during the jump montage. The second "five" (in the third chunk of four digits) corresponds to the tuplet G#/A/G#, effectively omitting the trill up to high A. Every note has the same duration except for the last two, which are twice the length of the others.
*The Virtual Beings are angels of God who came to guide Baltar and Caprica Six in their destiny of protecting Hera.
*Kara Thrace is an angel who was sent back from the dead to guide humanity to a new home the coordinates of which were hidden in The Music.
*The final scenes of this episode, in fast-forwarding through time and attempting to set the entire work as a backstory, make the ending similar to that of the film [[Wikipedia:How the West Was Won (film)|How the West Was Won]].
* There are at least two distinct angels. They have known each other long and born witness to Kobol and the original Earth, as well as the Twelve Colonies and the new Earth. They can walk around and observe events even when no one else present can see them, though they may have the ability to appear to anyone they wish. In the final scene, a man walking by the Angel Six appears to check her out (though this may have been a simple acting goof or an actual pedestrian happening by).
* The constellation [[w:Ursa Major|Ursa Major]] (commonly known as the "Big Dipper") appears briefly in this episode. It makes only the second appearance of a recognizable star pattern in the series, the first being Orion in "[[The Ties That Bind]]" (Orion is also visible in this episode).
* Adama's statement that New Earth is "one million light years" from Kobol must be taken as exaggeration or an error. The Milky Way is 100 000 light years across, and earlier statements in the show indicate that it considerable time to travel much shorter distances.
** It's possible that Adama's "million light years" comment is meant metaphorically instead of literally, in essence saying the Colonials have come an unthinkable distance to reach their new home.
===The reproduction prospects of the races===
*It is possible that some Baseships of Ones, Fours, and Fives were not at the [[Colony]] when it was destroyed, given the fact that they were observed jumping in and out of the system by Racetrack and Skulls. However, as noted in the "Notes" section it is unlikely that the Cavil, Simon and Doral lines will continue without Cylon females. The [[Three]]s are extinct with the last copy [[D'Anna Biers]] herself dying on the original Earth; Boomer was killed in the Colony (and in anycase couldn't single handedly save the lines even if she were alive); and the last Sixes and Eights staying with the humans on the second Earth. However, there is the possibility of having a few remaining human females from the survivors of the various Colonial worlds including [[Caprica]], if they still exist, being viable, so the lines could in theory continue. However, given the total lack of success in the forced breeding of Cylons and humans and the Cavil, Dorals and Simon's cynical view of love, an apparent requirement of conception between both Cylon-Cylon and Cylon-human combinations, with their hatred of humans it is unlikely. One final option could remain. The Final Five was able to download some of the Resurrection technology data to the Cavil Faction before Tyrol in his rage at Tory broke the connection. It is possible that the Cavil faction could extrapolate from the data they did get to recreate the technology, but only if it was transmitted to Baseships beyond the destroyed Colony. How long this could take or even if it is possible depends on how much and/or if the most critical and unique part of the technology was downloaded.
*On the second Earth Hera's mate that produced children was most likely human. Saul Tigh and the Leobens would be too old for her. While it was fairly common in ancient times for the men to be far older than their brides (particularly with royalty), for example with the female being as young as 12 and the male being say 60 to take an extreme. However, Colonial mores, which are much like our own in real life, would forbid the Leobens from sexual congress with Hera when she reach the accepted reproductive age. On the other hand there were many human children about her age and [[Boxey (RDM)|slightly older]] in the Fleet. She could had also had children with a human child unborn at the time of the landing on Second Earth, perhaps within five years to ten years of her age. It is possible that other hybrid children could had been born after the landing given that the Twos, Sixes, and Eights joined the humans. And it is possible that pure Cylon children could had been born to the age compatible Sixes, Eights, and Leobens but as noted in the series it is difficult if not impossible for a pure Cylon child to come to term making any pool of pure Cylon children that were successfully born-if any-very small. Cylon-Human mating with a human male with a Six or a Sharon is very possible with the example of Hera herself It is possible given the precedent of Karl and Sharon Agathon Giaus Baltar and Caprica Six could had had a child particularly since they truly love each other. It is a theoretical possibility that a Leoben could had taken a human wife (they are inclined to do so given one Leoben infatuation with Kara Thrace even before her specialness was known to them) In any case it Human-Cylon offspring are an much more likely than with a Cylon-Cylon birth, but it is still harder than with human-human pairings. This would make any children pool of those pairings, while much more likely and larger than Cylon-Cylon offspring, would still quite small number compared to pure human offspring frequency of birth. Therefore Hera's offspring is most likely with a human. A more remote possibility is with another Cylon-human hybrid. Her producing children with a pure Cylon offspring is the least likely of the three since pure Cylons are the least likely to exist. Throw in the possibility is Hera mating with the New Earth native tribal humans males then the likely hood of Hera having a child with a human is very likely.
* The Final Five can be considered ancestors of present-day humanity because they created Athena and the other Eights, Twos, and Sixes.
===Miscellaneous===
*[[Ronald D. Moore]] appears as himself holding a ''National Geographic'' magazine in New York City.
*The shelters erected by the Colonials on Earth resemble [[Wikipedia:Quonset hut|Quonset huts]], World War II-era temporary structures.
* In another piece of irony, the two beings most directly responsible for the attack and destruction of the 12 Colonies, Gaius Baltar and Caprica Six, get to live on a lush green New Earth in love with each other.
* Even if humanity does repeat the cycle, Lee Adama's plan would seem to have had some success, because it will have taken much, much longer to do so this time around.
* Ellen says that hopefully the Hybrids will ''still'' respond to Anders' commands. In other words, they would recognize him from the time the Final Five ran the Colony.
*Cavil's suicide, in the way it is framed and executed, closely mirrors the televised 1987 suicide of American politician [[w:Budd Dwyer|Budd Dwyer]].
* Adama's drunken moment, where he sits against a wall, vomits, and then looks up at the night sky, echoes [[w:Oscar Wilde|Oscar Wilde]]'s famous aphorism: ''We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.''
* Though it was never explicitly states in the Miniseries or after, it seems that TIgh was indeed planning to retire whenever Adama decided to leave the Colonial Military. The flashbacks in this episode to Saul and Ellen Tigh in the bar make it clear that Tigh is planning on following Adama out of the service. However Adama, as viewers come to see, decides ultimately to finish out his last years as the CO of ''Galactica'' despite reservations. Tigh obviously followed. This also sheds more light on Tigh's eventual estrangement from Ellen- which was where their relationship was at in the miniseries. The bitterness she doubtless felt at Tigh once again choosing Bill Adama over her was probably a factor in not only her noted loose behaviour, but their growing estrangement before the war.
*It is not entirely clear when in Adama's career he decided to pursue the idea of a civilian job as seen in both parts of "Daybreak". Dialogue during the lie detector test scene suggests Adama has been given his orders to command Galactica, but is considering resigning before taking up the post. However Adama notes in his intitial interview with his prospective employer in the previous episode that he has already commanded two battlestars. One of these is obviously [[''Valkyrie'']], but it is not clear if Adama is already referring to Galactica as the second command (which could also suggest he is already commanding the ''Galactica'' at the time this flashback is set and is considering his reisgnation when on leave from that ship), or to another battlestar that Adama once commanded but has never been mentioned before.

== Questions ==

* During the lie detector test in the flashback scene of William Adama's attempt to secure a civilian job, why did the interrogator ask him if he was a Cylon?
**The test administrator explains that they are in the process of establishing a baseline by asking questions of which they know the correct answers. The tested persons reactions when answering these questions will be recorded and compared with the reactions to the real test-questions. The reactions recorded when answering truthfully are expected to match those recorded on the "verifiable true answers" asked at the beginning, while lies should differ. As the exististence of human-looking cylons is not known at this point, "are you a cylon?" must appear as a question whose verifiable answer must be "no". If this is indeed a standard-question at the beginning of a lie-detector test in the colonies it would render such tests useless on self-aware cylons like [[Gina Inviere]], as their lie in answering this question would be recorded as a truthfull answer and therefor "confirm" all other lies to be truthfull as well.
* Why so many zeros in the Model 0005?
* Is the Adama family the origin of the name Adam for the mythical first man?

== Official Statements ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Virtual Baltar says the last line of the series as he walks down a street of modern day New York City with Virtual Six:''
:'''Virtual Baltar''': "Silly Me.....silly, silly me".

*''The Galactica is about to jump to The Colony and into harms way:''
:'''Admiral Adama''': Just so there'll be no misunderstandings later... ''Galactica'' has seen a lot of history, gone through a lot of battles. This ''will'' be her last. She will not fail us if we do not fail her. If we succeed in our mission, ''Galactica'' will bring us home. If we don't... it doesn’t matter anyway.

*''The Final Five are discussing things among themselves about to download the specifications of Resurrection technology. Cavil is impatient shouting from below up to the Five:''
:'''Cavil''':" HEY! I DON'T MEAN TO RUSH YOU BUT YOU ARE KEEPING TWO CIVILIZATIONS WAITING!

*''Cavil's last word before he commits suicide.''
:'''Cavil''': Frak!

*''Nuclear missiles has knocked the Colony falling into the Singularity and is dragging Galactica with it and Starbuck is frantically attempting to figure out the jump coordinates.''
:'''Starbuck''': There must be some kind of way out of here.

*''Virtual Six and Virtual Baltar speculating if the cycle will continue.''
:'''Virtual Baltar''': All of this has happened before...
:'''Virtual Six''': But the question remains: does all of this have to happen again?

*''Sam Anders, essentially Galactica's Hybrid, says his last words to Kara Thrace after she leaves his side.''
:'''Samuel Anders''': See you on the other side

*''Baltar to Caprica Six on New Earth in unspoken reference about his father''
:'''Baltar''': "You know, I know about farming." (sobs)

*''Laura Roslin is speaking to Dr. Cottle about the state of her health which both know it is grave with only a few days to live. Also, she is about to essentially go into battle to retrieve Hera and the Doctor appears to be on the verge of choking up:''
:'''Laura Roslin''': Don't spoil your image, just light a cigarette and go and grumble."

*''Former Admiral of the Fleet William Adama is showing Laura their new home on New Earth in a Raptor. She sees a heard of grezlles stampeding at the sight of the Raptor over the lush and rich landscape and says her last words:''
:'''Roslin''': So much life...

*''William Adama is sitting on a high ridge overlooking what would later be called the African Savannah in spectacular view. Laura Roslin's grave is behind him close by and he talks to her spirit. It is his last statement in the series:''
:'''William Adama''': I laid out the cabin. It's gonna have an easternly view. You should see the light we get here. When the sun comes from behind the mountains, it's almost heavenly. Reminds me of you."

*''Boomer has just given over Hera to Athena, saving her life from Cavil and Simon dissection-and both redeeming herself and condemning herself to death''
:'''Boomer''' (to Athena): Tell the old man, I owed him one.
:'''Athena''' (angrily) Doesn't change anything you did though!
:'''Boomer''' (shakes her head slightly): No. We all make our choices. Today I made a choice. I think its my last one.
:'''Starbuck''': All right this is really touching. Now can we get the frak out of here!?!
:'''Boomer''' (to Starbuck): You should know that your Raptor been destroyed. You can't go back that way.
:(Athena passes Hera to Helo)
:'''Athena''': Yeah well, that is not the plan.
:'''Starbuck''' (sardonically): Can we ''not'' tell her the plan?
:'''Athena''': Right.
:''(Athena and Boomer look each other in the eye for a moment. She raises her weapon. Boomer makes no move to escape, but stands strait head up, accepting if not welcoming her fate. Athena fires. Boomer is dead before she hits the deck.)''

== Guest Stars ==
* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Number Two]]
* [[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
* [[Rick Worthy]] as [[Number Four]]
* [[Mark Sheppard]] as [[Romo Lampkin]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Sherman Cottle]]
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
* [[Kerry Norton]] as [[Layne Ishay]]
* [[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Number One]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lieutenant [[Brendan Costanza|Brenden "Hotdog" Costanza]]
* [[Leah Cairns]] as Lieutenant [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
* [[Brad Dryborough]] as Lieutenant/Admiral [[Louis Hoshi]]
* [[Colin Lawrence]] as Ensign [[Hamish McCall|Hamish "Skulls" McCall]]
* [[Lara Gilchrist]] as [[Paulla Schaffer]]
* [[Colin Corrigan]] as Marine [[Allan Nowart]]
* [[Leela Savasta]] as [[Tracey Anne]]
* [[Darcy Laurie]] as [[Dealino]]
* [[Iliana Gomez-Martinez]] as [[Hera Agathon]]
* [[Tobias Mehler]] as [[Zak Adama]]
* [[Simone Bailly]] as [[Shona]]
* [[Kevin McNulty]] as [[Frank Porthos]]
* [[Richard Jollymore]] as Marine #1
* [[Anthony St. John]] as Marine #2
* [[Dan Payne]] as [[Sean Allison]]
* [[Holly Eglinton]] as Stripper
* [[Tiffany Lyndall-Knight]] as [[Hybrid]] (uncredited)
* [[Ronald D. Moore]] as Man at news stand (uncredited)

== References ==

<div style="font-size: 85%;"><references /></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

Talk:Blood on the Scales/Archive 1

2009-02-07T23:02:38Z

Nevfennas:

{{newsection link}}

== Episode Title Confirmation ==

Please submit the source of this episode title's name in the article. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:36, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
:The source is (kinda) noted in the article: [http://galacticasitrep.blogspot.com/2008/05/angeli-also-rises.html] -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 23:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

==What was that device Roslin and Leoben were using to communicate with the rest of the Fleet?==
Best guess its a part from the Commsystem of Starbucks Viper that was capable of receiving the homing signal from earth, that noone else could receive. We saw Starbuck and Leoben track down the signal on earth so they probably removed it from the Viper and had it with them. Given Starbucks reaction to finding her body and everyone else being told nothing had been found, it imaginable that Leoben simply kept it, as noone else was bothering about it. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 23:02, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Maelstrom/Archive 1

2007-03-07T20:20:14Z

Nevfennas: /* Crazy(?) Idea */ removed because already discussed at Talk:Humanoid Cylon speculation. my bad

==Official Source required==

Working episode titles are always shaky, even from official sources. The [[BW:OC|Official Communiques]] articles lists those confirmed by an official source, but even these are subject to change. Gateworld is not an official source and can be more wrong than the official preliminary title. Best to wait on this or verify the source. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:39, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

So far they've been correct for Season 3, and usually ahead of most other sources by several days. Waiting won't hurt [[User:Hmoul|Seattle Cylon]] 14:15, 24 October 2006 (CDT)
*I posed this title to Bradley Thompson and he chose not to confirm the title as a "working title" where he usually confirms "working titles". There may be a reason, may not be, but for our purposes, this should be considered rumor and innuendo and should be deleted.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 11:02, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::{{vd}} as well. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:06, 25 October 2006 (CDT)

==Promo Pics==
Are up [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/gallery/000a7qzs here]. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 16:28, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:I'd use the one with her mother as preview pic here. Aside from the ones with Leoben, the others are pretty generic. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:35, 1 February 2007 (CST)
::I posted the one with leoben before I read this. I liked the starbuck's destiny angle, but will change if the consensus dictates it. This gives me another ideas. Promo pic gallery in the article until it airs. I am really looking at ways to use more images since we are discussing a TV show. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 17:14, 1 February 2007 (CST)
:::That one's fine too. As for the gallery, sure. However, you should probably resize the pictures a bit before uploading them as they are very large --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:23, 1 February 2007 (CST)
::::If you think so, I will move this discussion to the Quorum? where discussion can start before writing up a Think tank proposal. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 17:34, 1 February 2007 (CST)

==Bonus Scene==
Maybe I missed something last week (I didn't go watch the ENTIRE bonus scene online), but when I went tonight to check out the Dirty Hands bonus scene, there was a bonus scene up from Maelstrom. Did anyone else see this? This shouldn't have been up yet, right? At any rate I got a sneak peak...even if it was a deleted scene :) --[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 00:42, 26 February 2007 (CST)

== Kara and Cylon ==

I had a brilliant thought the other night. Kara gets killed in this episode and wakes up in a ress chamber on Caprica. First words out of her mouth, "Oh sh!t". That could explain the pic of her back on Caprica with Leoben. I bet she is a Cylon. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 14:53, 26 February 2007 (CST)

You read my mind --[[User:Moo|Moo]] 20:09, 5 March 2007 (CST)
== ''Maelstrom'' Predictions! ==

Strap into your Vipers, ''Galactica'' fans! It's time for another round of predictions!
Sure, the All-Seeing, All-Knowing Slander struck out big time last week, but I got in some high-quality chamalla the other day and BOY is it potent! Anybody got any candy?
* Recon Delta, which consists of a two-man [[Viper (TOS)|Viper]] crewed by Captain [[Kanon]] and Lieutenant [[Britton]], is on patrol when it picks up readings of an advanced Cylon fighter.
* Suddenly, a previously unseen [[Cylon Raider|Cylon Raider]] appears and fires at them.
* The [[warbook]] brings back a readout of the occupants: the Raider crew appear to be human.
* [[Kanon]] decides on a desperate strategy and rams the ship, damaging both craft.
* The huge Cylon fighter tumbles towards Earth, and [[Britton]] is injured.

Wait. Frak. I'm sorry. That's [[The Night the Cylons Landed, Part I]]. [[Wolfman Jack]] was so awesome, though. Let's try this again.

*Starbuck goes nuts, even though she's seemed perfectly fine during the last few times we've seen her.
*Starbuck goes to see a psychiatrist.
*Like everyone with a deep interest in human nature on this show, said psychiatrist turns out to be a Cylon, but she doesn't know it until Starbuck's discussions about Leoben awaken her buried Cylon memories. She's just as surprised as the rest of us! (Moreso, actually, since we're not surprised at all.)
*Leoben is gonna be all over this episode, but mostly in hallucinations and flashbacks. Also, he gets it on with a SuicideGirl. ("Like, being a creepy, religious machine is, like, ''totally'' a turn-on!")
*I'm sensing an Anders appearance, but that could just be my unsexual man-love for Anders talking.
*Speaking of unsexual man-love, Zarek also puts in a brief appearance because, during filming, Richard Hatch was in town for a convention and the writers felt the need to inject ''even more awesomeness'' into this episode. Shame they can't resurrect [[Wolfman Jack]] for an episode or two, isn't it?
*Kara crashes her Viper, injuring herself so badly that we won't see her for the rest of the season.
*For the first time all season, Galvatron fails to make an appearance. This is because he's busy filming an episode of ''Ghost Whisperer''. Jennifer Love Hewitt's so damn hot.

This half of the season finally starts to build some momentum with this episode, leading up to what's sure to be a mind-smashing, cliff-hanging finale. After that's over, I guess I'll move over to GateWorld and start doing ''Stargate'' predictions. Do they have a good wiki? --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:23, 2 March 2007 (CST)

== A reminder to all contributors ==

The events of this episode should be treated as canon. While speculation is allowed, please avoid [[BW:FANW|fanwanking]] into the possibilities created by the event within this article. Episode summaries and its question and analysis are for relevant unanswered questions generated by this episode only. Some people may take a [[Beings of Light]] parallelism to it; because there is no connection officially established between the Original Series and Re-imagined Series on this, it is better to leave that trail alone. Also remember that talk pages aren't chat boards, so discuss the episode elsewhere (email, Sci Fi Forums, etc.) to keep wiki performance at its best. Thanks! --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:08, 5 March 2007 (CST)

== Who will take Kara's place as Galactica's Viper ace? ==

I would SO like that to be [[Diana Seelix|Seelix]]. It wouldn't be the first time the show sets up replacements ahead of time. Racetrack was intended to replace Crashdown after he died, but introduced when Crashdown was still alive and well on Kobol. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:23, 6 March 2007 (CST)
:They already did the "nugget becomes ace pilot" thing with Kat. While more screentime for Seelix would be nice, they could also increase Hot Dog's role, who has been a pilot for some time now. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:27, 6 March 2007 (CST)
::True. Hot Dog has been around for some time, and he's the only good Viper pilot we know who's still not a Captain and has never been CAG (Starbuck, Apollo and Kat all have). Now I'm not suggesting Hot Dog be CAG, but he could replace Starbuck as a squadron leader. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:39, 6 March 2007 (CST)
::I agree, I want to see Hotdog move into more prominence in the show. He's the last of the original 3 nuggets we came to know. I would hate it if they killed him before we actually have a Hotdog centered story.--[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 10:15, 6 March 2007 (CST)
:::Yeah, he's the best of what's left. Who recognizes where that paraphrased quote is from? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:36, 6 March 2007 (CST)
:::While I agree that Hot Dog is probably the best of the remaining Viper pilots, they could also transfer Athena, Racetrack, Helo, or possibly even Skulls. Don't know if Skulls has ever been pilot rather than ECO, though. --[[User:Psilon|Psilon]] 17:01, 6 March 2007 (CST)
::::Ehm, these are ''Raptor'' pilots, not ''Viper'' pilots. Piloting a Viper is different than piloting a Raptor. With that said, the only two people I can think of that would step up to the plate are Hotdog and Seelix. Hell, even [[Narcho]], since we see a lot of him now. I do hope that we see more of the ex-''Pegasus'' Viper jockeys as well, and would welcome them back into the fold. (Were the Great Powers able to pull it off, I think re-introducing [[Cole Taylor]] would prove awesome, and a great foil for Lee given their past history. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 18:40, 6 March 2007 (CST)
:::::Hmm, maybe the tatooed pilot? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:31, 6 March 2007 (CST)
::::::Stinger's still scraping hull paint off civilian ships right now, if Lee has anything to say about it. That guy was a frakwit from the first words out of his mouth. I'm cool on Hot Dog, since being squadron leader will cool his jets ''just a little'' while we see his cool competency. From his first rookie flight, he's quite a natural, and had a great line in "Exodus Part II" as he launches intra-atmosphere from the falling battlestar: "This should be interesting..." --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:25, 7 March 2007 (CST)
:::::I'd like to see Marcia "[[Showboat]]" Case again, but that will probably never happen :( --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:35, 7 March 2007 (CST)
::::"He's the best of what's left." --> Do you mean "You're the best non-commissioned officer I have left.?" -- Adama, [[Litmus]]? If it's from another sci-fi series, I must confess that I don't know shit about them :P --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:12, 7 March 2007 (CST)
:::::Actually, it was a reference to the movie [http://imdb.com/title/tt0107144/ Hot Shots Part Deux] (it was on tv when I was replying to that) where the government goes to get Topper Harley to go rescue all the captured people in Iraq since he's all that is left. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:19, 7 March 2007 (CST)

Talk:Maelstrom/Archive 1

2007-03-07T20:06:53Z

Nevfennas: /* Crazy(?) Idea */

Talk:Maelstrom/Archive 1

2007-03-07T20:05:50Z

Nevfennas: /* Who will take Kara's place as Galactica's Viper ace? */

Talk:The Eye of Jupiter/Archive3

2006-12-21T23:40:26Z

Nevfennas: /* Hera */

I wonder if it has to do with that big red spot... *rollseyes* --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:48, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I'm more reminded of that Writer's Podcast thing, you know when they're saying "How many more times are we going to find an artifact like the Arrow of Apollo and have to search for them all? That feels like going back to the well too many times, I mean what are we going to say, "Athena has 10 sacred toenail clipping scattered across space, you have to find them all...?" :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 18:49, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:i'm thinking along the lines of some jewelry. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:57, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

::It sounds like a good plotline actually. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:05, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Merv - you just made me spill forth mein coca cola whilst reading the section about the sacred toenail clippings - thats too much for 3am on a sunday morning! Still, plot looks good, just wish Season 3 would hurry up and AIR dammit! :) --[[User:Fordsierra4x4|Fordsierra4x4]] 21:08, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
::::No, really, they make a joke about "Athena's toenail clippings" in that writer's podcast thing. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:12, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

I have a few possible meanings for 'eye of Jupiter' --[[User:starryniteynite|starryniteynite]]

1) Relatively obscure name for NGC 3242, a planetary nebula (A ring of illuminated gas expanding out from a sun-like star that's exhausted its fuel, and has lost its outer layers) a few thousand light years from Earth. Most astronomers call this 'the Ghost of Jupiter' instead, though some Hubble images have used this name. Its not a very unique PN (tho it has some gas streamers we can't quite explain), but it could be used as a navigational marker like M8 (the lagoon nebula). It is a very pretty nebula :)

2) "Eye of Jupiter" was the Greek/Roman name for the sun, which lead to today's 'all seeing eye' symbol of the free masons and on the pyramid in US currency

3)Adama=Zeus=Jupiter...yes, they tend to use Greek vs. Roman names, but the titles are not always consistent with this convention, and we have also seen evidence for non Greek mythological names (Isis, for example). The rest of it could be wordplay too...'eye' might refer to someone acting as Adama's eyes, rather than his eyes literally (just as 'The captain's hand refereed to Lee acting as Gardner's XO, or his hand, rather than some captain's literal hand)

4)A reference to Jupiter's big red spot, a huge hurricane-like storm on the planet's surface. Just like the "bastille Day" title, this could reference something in the episode, but not directly...they might travel through a similar storm. This has actually been done before in the miniseries, when Galactica travels into the storm at Ragnar

5) The tried and true, ancient object meaning...just like the arrow of Apollo directly references a character, but has no link to the character himself, this could just be a pretty piece of bling..

Personally, I would love #1, but only because it'd make me 2/2 for BSG objects in my thesis and I'm a total, unabashed geek. I think its probably #2, however, and they find some sort of navigational means of finding Earth (like a picture of Earth w/ distances& directions to three pulsars or very unique objects

== Duelling Sharons ==

So did anyone else get a sense of animosity/jealousy between the two Sharons? While it seems that Boomer has accepted her place amongst the Cylons and no longer considers herself a part of the humans, it also seems that she's a bit jealous of Athena's "taking her place", if you could call it that. Likewise, it also seemed that aside from her duties as a Colonial officer, Athena's refusal to let Boomer in with Adama was also somewhat out of personal distrust, ironically the same distrust of the Cylons that her fellow Colonial colleagues have.

Also, while Boomer told Athena about Hera's condition out of possible concern of the child (possible strain of humanity left in her? Cylon imperative? Or something else?), seems to me that Boomer enjoyed bursting her "sister"'s bubble on that. Talk about sibling rivalry there.

It'll be interesting to see if there will be any further Sharon vs. Sharon confrontations in the series.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 23:55, 15 December 2006 (CST)

:It was a very, very interesting dynamic. In any other show, we would have had a knock-down dragout "catfight." You hit the nail on the head. This episode was prime stuff. And, we on the wiki should be commended: our ''Galactica'' nuke count is right on the money! (Either that, or the show is using ''us'' as a source! :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:20, 16 December 2006 (CST)

::Does that mean we can finally change the "Class-D Nuclear Warhead" to something completely different, since their nukes ''aren't'' Class-D? :P --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:42, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Image==
Let's find an image that actually occurs in this episode. Maybe the wide shot of Tyrol in the temple? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

Heh which one? to me it seems the Chief was a bit wide in ALL shots ; how could he gain weight while the fleet was starving? the chief definitely deserves the Lee Adama Fat-Ass trophy --[[User:Lordmutt|lordmutt]] 03:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:Maybe it was Chief, and not Dr. Cottle, that got all of Kat's energy bars from the last ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:25, 16 December 2006 (CST)

So... is someone with the means actually going to replace the image with one relevant to this episode? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 21:12, 20 December 2006 (CST)

==Did Starbuck survive?==
Horray for the carelessness of adverts! Within ten minutes we knew the answer to that one. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Aside from that, it's going to continue the cycle of Soap Opera unease there, if Dee's the one sent to go get Starbuck back. Can't wait to see the uncomfortable stares on that one, especially if (as I suspect) Dee set up Starbuck to be the "eye in the sky" '''hoping''' the Cylons would shoot her down.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Who else was supposed to fly the mission? Looks like Lee and Kara are the only two qualified pilots on the ground and Lee is needed in overall command. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:34, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Too good to be true==
When we Baltar's voice over ''Galactica'''s speaker, the closed caption actually identifies him as "Cylon over speaker". I know that's not really meant to be taken as anything, but with all the speculation, it seems like a shining goof, or maybe even someone taking a good piss out of the [[Baltar as Cylon speculation|whole thing]]. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:14, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Nuking the Planet==

Does anyone else think that the nuclear missiles have the ability to be detonated remotely, before they reach their target? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:44, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Not to mention abort code transmissions, etc. Makes you wonder if the missiles were set for "one shot, one kill" mode, where they could not be recalled.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 11:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Or perhaps the missiles can be aborted, until they reach a critical flight time. Could make for a ''very'' tense moment or two. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:Is it just me or didn't he actually give the order to fire. He said "release of nuclear weapons is now authorized". That might sound strange, but I took that to be a preliminary order to firing. For example that now even Tigh would be able to launch them on his say --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:03, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::No, you're correct on that; essentially all they were doing was opening the "barn doors". I was discussing the hypotheticals of the missiles, if they should be launched in the next ep.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:33, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:::Aye, we're just jumping the gun a little, and discussing possibles ways out of it, if Adama does indeed decide to launch :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 02:17, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== WTF moment ==

I was on the [[Karl Agathon]] page, updating it for this ep's news, when I came across [[:Image:Valley_of_Darkness-Starbuck_Helo.jpg|this old picture]]. Considering how Kara's painting looks and that she's religious (though not indoctrinated in any sort of clerical form, unlike Chief Tyrol's parentage), does anyone think that (in hindsight), this may have been a hint to the Eye itself?--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 12:37, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: It actually makes a lot of sense... Taking Zeus to mean Admiral Adama, and that Kara Thrace is the go-to pilot for reconnaissance missions, AND the paintings on the walls, we have a plausible theory in the works! —The preceding '''unsigned''' comment was added by {{User|Alcibiades}}.
: Are you kidding me?! They set this episode up a year ago! --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 19:39, 16 December 2006 (CST)
: I find it pretty hard to believe too, but that painting ''really really really'' looks like the art in the temple. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 20:41, 16 December 2006 (CST)
::Maybe they though it would be a nice idea to take that painting, put it in the Temple more than a season later, and see if we notice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:20, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::It's a painting in her room and part of the column in the temple. :) --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:31, 19 December 2006 (CST)
: So Starbuck is an artist. She paints The Eye of Jupiter. Is it a known symbol or is this the first time anyone else has seen it? If it's not well-known, what does that say about Starbuck? Doesn't it make her prescient? Maybe her true calling is as an oracle. --[[User:Galactageek|Galactageek]] 01:29, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::I'm with Catrope here. If I'm remembering my "Valley Of Darkness" podcast correctly, Tahmoh and Katee painted the apartment themselves, without any direction from Ron or the rest of the show crew. It's quite possible that someone noticed that particular pattern and decided to make it significant. And, hey, maybe she ''is'' an Oracle who just hasn't realized that she has the gift. Give the girl some chamalla and see what she can do. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Starbuck found a spiritual calling to fill the enormous gaps in her soul that she tries to fill with sex, booze, speed, duty, and violence. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 13:33, 19 December 2006 (CST)

== 18 Casualties & Relevance to "The Passage" ==

If 18 people were lost from '''The Passage''' episode, that means that 17 (at most) were aboard those two lost civilian ships, right? I'm only bringing this up to clarify what transpired — from that, and what we saw, the Raptors would pair up with a civilian ship, and that ship's passenger complement would be transferred onto ''Galactica'' (more heavily shielded, combat FTL drive) for the ferry run through the cluster. The civilian ship would then be crewed by an absolute bare minimum number of crewers. Then, when the group reached the other side of the cluster, the passengers would be transported back to their ships (if they survived the passage), the ships would remain at "Algae-planet", and ''Galactica'' would turn around and go back to the original side to repeat the cycle over again for a new group of civilian ships?

Am I reading/viewing this right? -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:53, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:The ships were manned by skeleton crews. That was even mentioned in "The Passage" --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:01, 16 December 2006 (CST)

: Don't forget that 14 days have transpired. there could have been more births in the fleet. I just came up with the difference from the two episodes--[[User:Quig|Quig]] 16:10, 16 December 2006 (CST)

== Humanoid Cylons recognize each other on sight ==

While back on New Craprica, Number 3 knew right away that it was Sharon Agathon. Of course, who else would be trying to remove the ship's launch keys?

This episode, we see that Athena knew on sight that this Number Eight was Boomer. Interesting.

Can Cylons tell on sight which of the copies they are? It's already established that the bulletheads can't.

Note in last weeks episode, Baltar was able to pick The D'anna number three out of the hallway on sight, even though there is an identically dressed number three in the same hallway. [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 16:50, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Those two instances do prove that they do recognize one another, which was hinted at in the "[[Cylon Agent]]" page. I guess now it's more than a hint. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:54, 16 December 2006 (CST)

==Names of marines==
Has anyone heard (or seen in close captions) the names of the marines that were with Starbuck and Dualla? I know one of them is [[Fischer]], but the other three? I heard something like: Criggs, Verek, Ditko. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:43, 16 December 2006 (CST)

:According to the caption, it's Griggs and Varrick; the spelling/pronouncation of the third lad is anyone else's guess. For some reason, the closed caption for this episode doesn't pick up everything for me. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:48, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== Location of the Eye? ==

At the end of the episode, Tyrol says something about "the sky will open, and the eye will be revealed." Did that make anyone else think of the star going nova? -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 22:15, 16 December 2006 (CST)
:Good idea, but is it possible that such a "blowup" could be predicted in the sacred scrolls thousands of years ago? -- [[User:SuperMMX|SuperMMX]] 01:15, 17 December 2006 (CST)
::Why not? A race of humans capable of traveling from Kobol to Earth probably knows at least as much about stellar evolution as the Colonials [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:39, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: The [[Sacred Scrolls]] have so far contained information about [[Laura Roslin]] being sick, [[Sharon Agathon]] helping them to find the [[Tomb of Athena]], and more... In addition to various prophetic dreams... Sure, they could have predicted it. -- [[User:Benabik|Benabik]] 11:26, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:When Tyrol commented about blowing up the Temple, I already thought "What if the Eye is INSIDE the pillar and they have to blow it up to get it out?" But surely an explosion destroying the entire system would destroy the Eye as well? And if it didn't, the Eye would not be easy to find between the debris of an entire planet. But blowing up a pillar doesn't exactly qualify as "the sky will open"... Maybe it refers to blowing up the roof or something like that... --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:04, 17 December 2006 (CST)
:: Note the shaft of light streaming across the central pillar in the final scenes of the episode. Perhaps something will be revealed when it becomes centered upon the prominent symbol seen there. --[[User:Spidey3|Spidey3]] 12:29, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::That was the way my mind was working. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 14:39, 18 December 2006 (CST)

== Boomer in the brig? ==

Did Boomer get thrown in the galactica brig once Athena pointed her out? Was she allowed to return to the Basestars? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:49, 17 December 2006 (CST)

I doubt it because they probably would have it done right there rather than holding her outside first. I'm sure they let her leave with the others and advised her not to let the door hit on the arse on the way out. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 09:46, 17 December 2006 (CST)

:Besides, the least thing they need on ''Galactica'' right now would be Boomer to break out of the brig, throw on a uniform and have a "Guess the Sharon" contest. Aside from that, I expect that kind of trite plotwork I just mentioned from lesser sci-fi series, not this one.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 19:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)

== Summary ==

We really need a longer summary up there, the only point it currently mentions is kind of random -_- --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:58, 17 December 2006 (CST)

== D'anna's search for the five vs. the Temple of Five ==

I haven't seen much discussion on the connection between "the five" Cylons and the Temple of the Five. Since the Temple was built by the 13th tribe, a connection doesn't seem likely in a conventional linear timeline; but like the painting in Starbuck's apartment, it's hard to dismiss as a mere coincidence.

Such a connection does, however, clear up some verisimilitude issues for me – namely, the rate at which the Cylon's biological technology advanced in relation to both Cylon and Colonial conventional technology.

In less than 40 years' time, the Cylons were able to develop the Cylon Agents – and in such a way that made indiscernable from humans – and all of the ressurection technology that went with it. Meanwhile, their conventional, mechanical technology hasn't made nearly the same leaps. And Colonial technology hasn't advanced much at all. Pegasus was a much more formidable vessel than Galactica, but only in terms of size and firepower. Technologically speaking, they weren't that dissimilar. Everyone's still using nuclear missles as their most advanced form of weaponry.

Clearly, the Cylons have had a little help. Now, with dual references to a group of five that must not be named, we're starting to get an idea of from where that help may have come.

I'm not sure how that jibes with the Cylon's monotheistic religion (also established within those 40 years), versus the Colonies' polytheism, but I'm sure Mr.Moore has it worked out.

How great it is to have a show with a fleshed out story line already established, as opposed to the "make it up as we go" approach to shows like Star Trek (all incarnations), X-Files and Lost over our last 40 years. {{unsigned|Tylonius}}

:To ''Battlestar's'' credit, it did take a while to flesh out the story from a viewer's perspective, but what we know is quite intriguing. Their God and the Colonial gods may be one and the same, and may change how the Cylons treat the Colonials and vice versa. I don't think the five faces will be all shown, but we might see one. And yes, it is good to enjoy a show that makes a greater effort to maintain a consistent storyline. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:01, 18 December 2006 (CST)

::Time may not be an issue. Remember the Colonial Scriptures are full of prophecies, it wouldn't be too farfetched to assume that the Temple of Five could've been constructed for something before it happened, for the purpose of making it happen in due time.

::The Five could do whatever releated them to the temple much like Roslin is directly related to finding the tomb Athena, even though she lived thousands of years after everything else was set.

::This is all speculation, of course, but oh well....--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 13:59, 19 December 2006 (CST)

:::The Final Five are directly connected to the Temple of Five: http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2006/12/one_of_the_cent.html -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:16, 20 December 2006 (CST)

== Human Nicknames ==
I cropped the following from the episode summary. Nothing against either point, just taking it off until somebody can figure out how to reconcile it into a single level deep bullet point (or points).
Cropped text:
*This is the first time the Cylons use "human" names on the basestar when not speaking to Baltar. D'Anna is named by Caprica-Six and another Number Three. Cavil's name is used by D'Anna.
**It is possible that these names are nicknames for the Cylons who've been amongst the humans (much like Caprica-Six), but it could also be the writers weaseling out of coming up with numbers for Cavil, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]] and [[Simon]]. In ''[[The Passage]]'', D'Anna even mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons".
Thanks. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:51, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Err how about:
*This episode marks the first time the Cylons use "human" names when not speaking to Baltar: Caprica-Six and another Three call D'Anna by her human name, who in turn uses Cavil's name. These could be nicknames for Cylons who've been living among humans (cf. [[Caprica-Six]]).
*Once again, the writers have dodged the issue of [[Cavil]]'s, [[Leoben Conoy|Leoben]]'s and [[Simon]]'s numbers. In "[[Torn]]", Caprica-Six says "The ones you know as Leoben...", in "[[The Passage]]" Number Three mentions having a discussion with "one of the Simons" and in this episode a Three simply calls one of the Cavils "Cavil".

Please correct my style here, I didn't know exactly how to quote/paraphrase things like "one of the Simons" etc. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

:One bullet point might be enough if the second part is connected with a word like "thus". However we shouldn't use "weasling". It sounds too negative and critical where criticism isn't really needed. Maybe something like "dodging the issue" or "circumventing"? That means the same and isn't as POV.
:Btw: episode names aren't italicized, but put in quotation marks --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:12, 18 December 2006 (CST)

Edit first post, episode titles quoted instead of italicized, second bullet point reprashed and "weaseling" changed to "dodged".
I don't think joining the bullet points with "this" between them is going to make this any clearer. I also don't think it's necessary, as both points may be related but analyse different things (the remaining numbers vs. Cylon naming convention). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:28, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:I think the writers are working with established names for convenience. They may not want to create a number yet to not confuse some viewers or there may be a grand scheme of introducing more numbers later in the season or another season that involves the 5 unknown cylon models. They could be maintaining flexibility for themselves in this case. They also know that the people who care the most are us die-hard fans and they can drag us through the mud without giving us more info, but I don't think so with as generous and courteous as Ngarenn is on BW:OC.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 11:10, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::It wouldn't be too hard to introduce a new number though. We've heard plenty of statements like "We Threes think we can't take the risk.", ideal statements to introduce new numbers with. Of course these numbers aren't a big deal, but die-hard fans tend to like to know these details. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 11:37, 18 December 2006 (CST)
:::True. Though the more detail the introduce, the more chances they have to get it wrong. Even with the few model numbers we have revealed RDM sometimes has [[Podcast:The_Passage#Act_1|difficulty keeping them straight]], confusing the Eight's (Sharons) with the Three's (D'annas). Either way, we'll be here, documenting. I sometimes wonder if we're (the die-hard detail documenters) aren't his worst nightmares (if we even bothers thinking about us). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:52, 18 December 2006 (CST)
::::I always thought it was a nice nod to buckaroo banzai where all the villains had the same first name. [[User:Azselendor|Azselendor]] 22:05, 18 December 2006 (CST)

== Question on article ==

*When did [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] go over to the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons']] way of thinking? In this episode she clearly doesn't seem to think of herself as human anymore like she did in "[[Downloaded]]."
:I had assumed that by LDYB, II that the Cylons had gone over to Boomer and Caprica-Six's way of thinking, hence their (C-six and Boomer) sudden rise to power as well as the sudden Cylon cease-fire. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:24, 19 December 2006 (CST)

== Hera ==

I cannot believe that Adm. Adama has apparently no idea what happened to Hera. He was involved in this discussion in [[Downloaded]]. He should knew that Hera and her foster mother moved to [[New Caprica]]. I am very surprised that he became so angry after Roslin told him that she kept the child in her school. --[[User:Akagi|Akagi]] 17:21, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:Adama and Roslin only agreed in "[[Downloaded]]" that Sharon cannot be allowesd raise the baby. Maybe he assumed/was told that Hera was killed by Cottle? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 17:34, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::That they concluded at the discussion that the child should be killed would fit with this episode events and Baltars look at the end of "Downloaded" when being chided by his internal six. However that option was mentioned onscreen and the entire tone of the conversation at that point makes it seem somewhat unlikely that this would been the final decision. Given that Baltar was never in on the adoption-plot (he apparently didn't know Hera was alive on New Caprica) and we now know Adama didn't know about it either the discussion outcome must have been either to kill the child or to postpone the decision (with Heras apparent death solving the problem). I'm quite willing to buy that Adama believed the child had died a natural death, given that complication in a hybrid between man and machine were to exspected. But I have troubles with Roslin doing it all behind Adamas back (why did she have to do that?) and Adama not making a decision whatever immediately (in Downloaded). [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 17:40, 21 December 2006 (CST)

== Recent Summary Reorganization Problems ==

I'm normally OK about reorganization of a summary, but the recent one handled by SgtPayne creates more work and confusion. Links previously added are missing, conventions once there are missing, and the narrative flow of the summary is extremely confusing. Normally we can break up events by location (events on Galactica, basestars, planets) because they are mostly separate events that don't directly connect, but this episode has both Cylons and Colonial events occurring in response to each other and in "real-time." I am ''this close'' to rolling back the summary and adding edits made afterwards to restore both narrative flow and conventions, but I wanted comments from others first. As an admin I would just roll it back because of all the wikilinking and convention breakage, but it's more than that. Comments? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:36, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:This is one that I might suggest we do "Act" reporting summary. So the events are intertwined. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 09:56, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::::I believe that's exactly what the summary contained before that infamous edit: a chronological report of the events in this episode. Since everything and everyone interacts with eachother and is at the same place, that would be a logical choice. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:03, 20 December 2006 (CST) (I hate edit conflicts)
:I haven't checked it for style and links, but I agree that the summary should be chronological. Splitting up the locations is fine if they aren't related. But as you said, here they are heavily interwined and dependent on each other --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:57, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:'''Revert.''' It looked better the way it was. The new split makes for a very confusing read. --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 11:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)

I have reverted the article and restored relevant edits made after that reorganization. One persistant edit that I keep changing involves the "shaft of light" in the Temple as Tyrol is inspecting the symbology in the Temple. That "shaft" is Tyrol's flashlight beam. While that direct light ''might'' do something unexpected as it approaches the central target-shaped symbol, it's not coming from some mystic source within the structure. I've clarified this in the article. Contributors are always free to edit it, but its fairly clear, so analysis should be used to interpret what it might do. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:48, 20 December 2006 (CST)

In light of the recent reversion, I should drop my two cents in regarding the "reorganization". When I first read the article, I felt that it was too "narrative" rather than "summary", which is what the section suggests. The consolidation was an attempt to make the information as concise as possible. I also attempted to keep as many reference links as necessary. In regards to the location split, this was done in line with previous articles, which had definitive locations. My apologies if it confused readers, but it should be said that summaries are just that, and should not be play-by-play accounts of the episode. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 12:18, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:The location split you introduced is good practice when there are multiple storylines that do not interfere with eachother. A nice example of that is "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]". In most episodes this is the case (end s1-begin s2 even had 3 or 4 separate storylines), but in this particular episode the three locations affect eachother so greatly that the split you introduced makes for extemely confusing reading: a bullet point in the basestar story references events told in the Galactica part, and viceverse. (Let's not even start about the Algae Planet part). --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 12:45, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::You bring up a good point. In trying to put it together, there were some areas where I wasn't sure where to put it. On the whole, I was looking to clean it up a bit. Trying to read it line-for-line blurs out after a while... --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 14:22, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::I've broken up the summary into acts. It seems to solve both problems. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:24, 20 December 2006 (CST)
::::aye. nice job. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:34, 20 December 2006 (CST)
:::::I concur. It definitely cleans up the look of the page. --[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 22:55, 20 December 2006 (CST)

==Missile Tubes==
Where exactly are they and shouldnt that be an article in "Galactica Areas" Snorkel378

== More Nested Analysis ==
*The [[tylium]] planned for the mines could only come from their single Raptor. This supports the [[Substances in the Re-imagined Series#The Tylium Question|high energy yield of the fuel]] that, at the same time, would not sacrifice the Raptor's flight ability.
**It's also possible that the tylium used was fuel stored at the camp to power its generators and/or refuel the Raptors and other ships involved in the harvest.
Please resolve these into either one or two single-level bullets, then re-add to the article. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:56, 21 December 2006 (CST)

The Passage

2006-12-10T15:52:00Z

Nevfennas: /* Analysis */

{{Episode Data
| title= The Passage
| image=Season 3 - Promo - The Passage - Kat.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 10
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Jane Espenson]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Nankin]]
| production= 310
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-12-08
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,420
| prev= [[Unfinished Business]]
| next= [[The Eye of Jupiter]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Starvation threatens the population after the food-processing systems become contaminated, but the Fleet is cut off from a food source by the intense radiation put out by a huge star cluster. ''Galactica'''s pilots must guide the civilian vessels on a dangerous journey directly through the radiation.''

== Summary ==
=== On ''[[Galactica]]'' ===
*[[Sharon Agathon|Athena]] flies a [[Raptor]] through a blinding, immensely bright gas cloud. The Raptor's outer skin is charring from the intense heat. Athena is managing to fight off the intense radiation buildup surrounding her, thanks to her [[Cylon agent|Cylon physiology]], but a radiation monitor badge she wears is changing color from white, spotting to an ominous black.
*Elsewhere in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]], President [[Laura Roslin]] summarizes the contamination of the basic foodstuff material storage used to feed everyone, from soldier to civilian. The situation is dire; 7 to 10 days of rations remain. The Fleet is starving.
*A group of pilots, including [[Lee Adama]], [[Kara Thrace]], [[Hot Dog]] and [[Louanne Katraine]], are combining what little food they have and sharing it, down to the last crumb.
*Admiral [[William Adama]] and his command staff await Athena's return from her reconnaisance mission to what they believe is a planet that has basic algae, which isn't extremely palatable but is protein-rich and will allow them to restock their food stores and survive. Athena is three hours late from return.
*Athena does make it back to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. While her radiation badge is black, her Cylon physiology protects her (although she is obviously uncomfortable). She reports success; the planet is teeming with algae.
*But the travel through the star cluster is extremely dangerous. Two [[FTL|jumps]] are required to reach the planet on the other side of the cluster, which cannot be circumnavigated. The navigation computers of any civilian ships inside the cluster would be inoperative due to insufficient shielding and the intense radiation leaves a ship only minutes to gather their bearings for the second jump out before they absorb a fatal dose of radiation. Any ship would also have to endure the intense heat as well.
*''Galactica'' alone cannot be used to ferry the people, and the civilian ships alone would not make the trip as they would get lost within the cluster cloud. There is too much algae for ''Galactica'' to bring the food to the people in time.
*The Adamas consider the use of the Raptors, whose navigation systems are radiation-hardened to protect against nuclear strikes, as pilot ships that will guide a group of civilian ships at a time by visual reckoning, relaying the proper jump coordinates once visual sighting is made to get the ships to the other side. Five jumps are needed, and skeleton crews are used on each civilian ship to limit the Fleet's possible losses, with the civilians temporarily transferred to ''Galactica'', which will survive the radiation effects thanks to the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar's]] dense hull plating ([[Miniseries]]).
*A group of civilians are bunked on ''Galactica'' from the civilian ships. One of them recognizes Kat, but calls out for her by another name: "Sasha." Kat reacts angrily to the man, [[Enzo]], and barely acknowledges his call before warning him to back off.
*The pilots are briefed on the plan, and each given radiation badges. When Major Adama encourages the use of [[stims]], Kat objects, warning that stims work by boosting the body's metabolism. In their starvation state, the stims would make them ill. Adama leaves the use of the drug to the pilot's discretion.
*Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] returns to the [[CIC]] and is greeted by a round of applause from the crew. He promptly reminds them that they have "jobs to do". He has presumably resumed his post as [[XO]] of ''Galactica''.
*The first outbound flight into the cluster begins. The ''[[Adriatic]]'' is lost when its Raptor guide, flown by [[Hot Dog]], cannot locate her.
*Successive trips continue, but another ship, the ''[[Carina]]'', guided by Kat, is lost as well, which greatly angers and saddens her. She stays in the cloud a few minutes too long during her extended search, and her radiation badge becomes dark.
*In the [[hangar deck]], Thrace notices Enzo interacting with Kat and gets suspicious. She later questions Enzo and later, Kat.
*Kat begs Thrace not to tell Admiral Adama about her past life as a drug runner and the fact that she acquired her name, "Louanne Katraine," from a child that died two days after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]], using it to clear ''Galactica'''s pilot screening when she was a [[nugget]]. Thrace accepts her offer, warning her to embrace who she really is.
*Feeling backed into a corner, Kat is physically stressed. Her hair is falling out, a sign of radiation poisoning. Fearful of what will happen to her if Admiral Adama finds out, she chooses to continue her Raptor flights, swapping her radiation badge with [[Helo]]'s. She allows herself a sexual romp with Enzo before preparing for the last outbound flight.
*The last outbound trip is more destructive. Even ''Galactica'' cannot withstand the heat and begins to suffer heat-related decompression failures throughout its hull. Adama orders his son to wrap out visual sighting and perform the escape jump.
*Kat cannot find her last ship. Realizing she had already absorbed too much radiation, she elects to remain in the cloud to continue searching for her lost ship.
*''Galactica'' waits for several frightening minutes until both Kat's Raptor and the last civilian ship rejoin them.
*Kat is greeted by the command staff and many crewmembers to celebrate her accomplishment. The young pilot pumps her arms in the air and tries to remove her helmet before she collapses from radiation poisoning.
*In [[sickbay]], Kara Thrace talks to Kat, whose exposure to the cloud's radiation was too extreme. Thrace recants a part of her conversation with Kat and her origins, and tries unsuccessfully to leave Kat's bedside with a smile before leaving the dying pilot with a bottle of sleeping pills as a gesture of self-euthanization. Kat thanks her.
*Admiral Adama stands by Kat's bedside immediately after Thrace's departure. Kat attempts to confess her past, but Adama tells her that her past will not change the heroic thing she did for the Fleet. He gives her the status of [[CAG]] once more, a position she held from colonization of [[New Caprica]] to Major Adama's return to ''Galactica'', despite the fact that Kat will not survive to fly again.
*Adama stays at Kat's bedside, talking with her and how he would have loved to have had a third child, commenting that he, like his ex-wife, [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]], would have liked a daughter.
*Some time later, the pilots assemble in their [[Pilot ready rooms|ready room]] as Admiral Adama changes the pilot organization chart, placing Kat as the CAG.
*Kara Thrace enters ''Galactica'''s memorial hallway and tacks a photo of Kat on the board. She cries quietly as Lee Adama looks on from a distance.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*Baltar notices that Number Three keeps going off somewhere and wonders what she is doing. Caprica-Six tells him that the other Cylons are also concerned about Three's activities.
*Baltar confronts Three about her unexplained absences and surmises that she has been dying and resurrecting over and over again.
*Baltar and Three discuss the final five Cylon agents, who are apparently the figures Three has been seeing between life and death. Baltar wonders aloud if he could be one of them, making him a hero to the Cylons instead of a traitor to the Colonials. Three tries to hold onto the memory of what they look like, but it always fades. Her drawings of them aren't very distinct.
*Baltar and Three visit the Hybrid's chamber. Against Three's advice, Baltar reaches out to touch the Hybrid and she grabs his hand. She says a number of cryptic things which Baltar pieces together as clues about a planet where the Eye of Jupiter can be found, as well as something related to the final five. Baltar states that he is convinced that everything the hybrid says has meaning.

== Questions ==
*Was the Fleet-wide failure of food-processing systems a result of sabotage? If so, were Cylons responsible, or someone else?
*Was assisted suicide an accepted practice in the Colonies, even if not by a practicing physician?
*Are there going to be radiation consequences for the pilots exposed to the conditions of the star cluster, especially those pilots who did in fact have a black indicator?
*How many pilots and crew were lost on the two civilian ships ''Adriatic'' and ''Carina''? Will their loss cause problems for the civilians that used to live on them?

== Analysis ==
*The ranking shuffle resumes in this episode: Tigh returns to the CIC as XO, sending Helo back to the flight lines as a senior flight officer (his rank of Captain seems unaffected). At the end of the episode, Kat is posthumously restored to the CAG slot, with Apollo shunted into her squadron leader position (presumably, he will continue as ''de facto'' CAG).
**Kat's promotion to CAG may have occurred before she died so that upon her death, her posting as CAG would expire and Apollo would regain his position. It makes little sense to be posthumously assigned to a billet. Either way, since her posting is honorary in nature, it is likely temporary.
*Baltar calls the Number Three "D'Anna", to which she responds. This indicates a high likelyhood of her being the same copy that was on ''Galactica'' and making her one of a few Cylons that has a name instead of just being a model.
**Or, it may simply indicate acceptance of Baltar's custom of referring to and addressing some models by their "human" names—in this same scene, Baltar refers to "the relevant Simon" and in prior episodes refers to "one of the Dorals"' views on toilet paper. This custom is shared with the other humans, such as Ellen Tigh who mentions "one of the Brother Cavils", and Adama, who refers to both the Ragnar Anchorage copy and the stowaway copy in "[[Flesh and Bone]]" as "Leoben Conoy".
*Number Three does not know what the final five Cylon agent models look like, at least not consciously.
*No anti-radiation injections were seen to be used by the pilots. Unless they administered offscreen this could either mean that the Fleet's supplies are used up, or that even the medication doesn't help against such intense levels of stellar radiation.
*The first sketch of the final five Cylons that Number Three shows Baltar depicts what looks to be two men and three women. If this proves accurate then of the twelve Cylon models there are six males and six females.

== Notes ==
*This is one of the few times an air group org chart is visible. The CAG (now Kat) is in the top slot; directly below her are (presumably) the squadron leaders (Apollo, Starbuck, Two Times, and a fourth whose name is never visible to the camera). Pilots and ECOs may be listed below their squadron leaders in descending order of seniority (both Helo and Hot Dog, for example, are listed directly beneath their squadron leader, Starbuck, and the two of them are definitely among the senior flight officers for ''Galactica'').
*A [[Straits of Madagon|perilous journey]] by the [[The Fleet (TOS)|"rag-tag" Fleet]] in the [[Original Series]], where pilots are also critical to the Fleet's safety, appears in its series premiere, "[[Saga of a Star World]]."
*"The Passage" was written by ''Galactica'' newcomer [[Jane Espenson]]. The episode arose when the show brought in Dr. [[Kevin Grazier]], a scientist from the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, who talked about how one would navigate through space; how one would figure out how to get from one point in the to universe to, for example, Earth. Grazier's talk prompted the story at the heart of Espenson's episode.
*On the memorial wall Kat's picture is placed below the one of Riley's girlfriend she herself put there in "[[Scar]]".
*This episode marks the destruction of two civilian ships, the ''[[Adriatic]]'' and ''[[Carina]]''. This will likely result in more crowded conditions on the other ships in [[The Fleet]].
*This is the second episode in which dialog has been censored in the [[w:Sci Fi Channel (United States)|Sci Fi Channel]] broadcast. Starbuck sarcastically proclaims she gave Dr. Cottle "head" in response to Kat saying she gave him her protein bar.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''Adama and Tigh discuss the food shortage''
::'''Adama:''' I hear they're still eating paper. Is that true?
::'''Tigh:''' No. Paper shortage.

*''Starbuck gives a last minute pep talk to the pilots''
::'''Starbuck:''' Remember, we're all flying solo on this mission. So that means there'll be nobody there to bitch slap you if you start to get tired or start seeing little toasters on your wing.

== Official Statements ==
'''In [[Ron Moore]]'s blog on [http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/ July 27th, 2006]:'''

:"We were pretty excited to have Jane too. I actually took Jane's first pitch way back in my early days at Star Trek and I had the pleasure of buying what turned out to be her first sale. I hadn't seen her since, but I'd followed her career from afar and was very proud to see her do so well. Turns out that Jane was a huge fan of Galactica and really wanted to do a script for us, so we jumped on the chance. I think we're all hoping that we could get her on staff at some point in the future, but we'll have to wait and see how everything shakes out for Season Four -- and whether she's even available, she's very much in demand these days. Her episode this year is "The Passage" (originally Ep 9) and deals with a harrowing voyage of the rag-tag fleet and focuses on Kat."

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Captain [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:A to Z|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Passage, The]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Jane Espenson]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:A Measure of Salvation/Archive 1

2006-11-25T22:38:43Z

Nevfennas: /* I don't get it. */

==Picture?==
Is that picture from A Measure of Salvation? I don't remember Three and Six projecting themselves into a forest. The outfits they are wearing look like what they wore while torturing Baltar, so maybe it's from a deleted scene. Unless I've forgotten the scene for some reason, shouldn't we get a picture that actually came from the episode? -- [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:10, 11 November 2006 (CST)

== Some Poor Writing ==

Attention to detail is what has set BSG apart from so many other science-fiction shows - including Mr. Moore's Star Trek franchises. So I was very disappointed last night to see the sloppy errors piling up deep. I'd have to see the epsiode again to list them all, but mainly them problems concerned the virus.

The scene where potentially infected Galactica crew are "quarantined", together with Sharon, in a room with cold-storage plastic flaps was ridiculous.

It's preposterous to think that a cylon would casually betray his race for the anti-viral drug. He has no assurance that he won't be double-crossed, and he certainly - even after torture - wouldn't spell out the danger the virus poses to the cylon fleet. The audience isn't stupid and neither should the Galctica crew be. Seeing Lee with a dim little lightbulb over his head was just insulting to us all.

Past episodes have cleary shown that cylon ressurection occurs over significant distances, (greater than FTL jumps), and that calls into question the fundemental logistics of Adama's infection plan.

There would be no reason to jump Galactica itself, just sending one raptor with a cylon transponder and one infected cylon would have done the trick. (Nevermind the ease with which two cylon raiders almost instantly materialize into a whole cylon fleet with a resurrectionship conveniently in tow.)

The analysis on the episode summary page provides an excellent plot device allowing the raid to "succeed" thus justifying the major build-up of the two part story. In fact, it would have made a superb three part arc.

Hypothetical episode 3: Spend some realistic period of time finding a reasonably sized cylon fleet, infect them, virus begins spreading throughout area covered by the "local" resurrection ship. Cylons scramble to head off disease, Baltar gains points by developing Hera vaccine, cylons survive but with major "body-blow" giving Galactica and fleet some breathing room as they prepare to investigate the new lead to Earth.

Please don't get me wrong, I love this show, but sci-fi writing has always been done on the cheap and it make my eyes roll as I struggle to care about characters forced through non-sensical plot contortions. Please, Mr. Moore, DON'T LET BSG SINK TO THE SAME SAD FATE! I'm trusting that this was just a hiccup not a trend.

--[[User:IanB|IanB]] 13:08, 11 November 2006 (CST)

:In defense of the writers, I think you are wrong on two points:
:*Jumping Galactica makes sense. In [[Scar]] Cylon Raiders are engaging in skirmishes despite the absence of a resurrection ship. A Raptor is not a big enough threat to guarantee the presence of a resurrection ship. If one isn't in range by accident the Cylons would probably engage the Raptor without it and take a minor risk of permanently loosing a few raiders. And after [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]] the Cylons could be exspected to take a closer look to any unexpected Raptors with a Cylon transponder showing up. If they destroy it without a resurrection ship in range, the plans failed. Also Racetrack stated last episode that there is a shortage of Raptors in the fleet, noone is going to be eager to sacrifice one. Jumping Galactica ensures the Cylon require lots of forces, expect lot's of casualties and have a resurrection ship nearby, though I could have done without seeing it arrive on the battlefield, that's bad and inconsistent strategy, just to make sure the audience knows that it is in range.

:*There is probably a greater timespan between arrival of the patrol and that of the strikeforce then shown onscreen. Helo manipulates the oxygen-system after the jump, nevertheless the prisoners are already dead by the time the resurrection ship appears, indicating a least a few minutes have passed. The process can be seen in [[Flight of the Phoenix]] in the firing range scene (it's likely that Helo manipulated the same system).

:Two more plotholes I noticed: How do the Colonials know the Cylon supply lines? And given that they know Athena is immune because she's given birth to a hybrid child, they should wonder if there a more human-cylon hybrids. Even without knowing that Hera is still alive, if the massive Cylon effort to create hybrids resulted in creating at least one more hybrid the cylons would take a blow, but would not be exstinct. By the way it would be nice if we would hear something about these efforts. When Hera is shown for the first time in Cylon hands would be a good opportunity to close that chapter with a throwaway line that all these efforts were fruitless and stopped. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 11:24, 12 November 2006 (CST)

:: That's an interesting question -- one that I had myself, actually. Even if the effort didn't destroy the Cylon race (and I think that goal is overly optimistic), the virus would have given a serious blow to the Cylons, which would only serve to give the survivors more breathing room -- not to metion the increase in general morale, which the survivors seriously need after the farce at New Caprica. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:53, 12 November 2006 (CST)

I would have to agree the writing is poor. The series seems to be drifting from its roots and moving into the Hollywood PC political statement world. This season has already thrown in suicide bombing and implied it was acceptable, now there is a drift into making political statements about biological weapons (even though nuclear weapons have been freely used in the past.) It seems the writers are abandoning their science fiction roots and reaching to make their own personal social or political commentary. I do hope they get back to what I considered truly exceptional science fiction and stop these editorials.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 00:06, 12 November 2006 (CST)

Followup: According to and article on the Gateworld site ([http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/news/2006/10/season_three_ratings_slip_from_premiere.shtml]) the ratings have been slipping. As much as I truly love this show, I know my wife and I were both rather disgusted with the previous inclusion of the suicide bombers and now the “loss of humanity” references associated with the potential use of biological weapons. I have also heard complaints from two of our friends. I’m concerned that if this direction is continued it will not only ruin the show, it will also drive away viewers resulting in cancelation. As a long time science fiction fan (I even remember watching the original showings of Lost in Space and the first Star Trek) this has been my all time favorite show up until now. I would hate to see it have an early demise. As I mentioned above, I hope the writers can return to science fiction and entertainment.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 16:13, 12 November 2006 (CST)

:: Ratings have been slipping for ''SG-1'' and ''Atlantis'' as well; neither have the strong allegories to today's world, or the world of yesteryear for that matter. So I don't fully buy that there's a direct correlation between the creative direction BSG is going and the loss in viewership. Actually, one could probably argue (more successfully in my informed opinion) that the loss of ratings has more to do with Sci-Fi's scheduling decisions of breaking up the "Three Amigos" (''Stargate SG-1'', ''Stargate Atlantis'' and ''Battlestar Galactica''). As for the "loss of humanity" and suicide bombing themes, these have existed since the miniseries (Number Five's suicide bombing attempt in "[[Litmus]]" and Adama's speech in the miniseries and platitudes since then). -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:53, 12 November 2006 (CST)

::: In my very informed opinion, I would have to disagree on several points. While time slots and lineup can affect ratings, this usually is reflected in those of the shows with the weaker individual draw. Galactica is a cornerstone show which should draw up the ratings for those around it rather than have such a slump from a lineup change.

::: As for the previous Friday lineup, SG-1 ratings have steadily declined since the departure of Richard Dean Anderson. His departure also seemed to coincide with decline in the quality of the writing, though I’m not convinced the two were related rather than just coincidental. I have always believed the SG Atlantis was the weak link in that lineup and was carried by its position between SG-1 and BSG. As mentioned in the article I referenced above, Dr. Who, which leads into BSG, has had poor ratings this season. I believe the replacement of the very likable actor playing the title role, though consistent with the original BBC series, was a detriment to this series. In addition, this season’s writing has seemed less creative and entertaining. I greatly enjoyed their first season, but have found the current one to be rather dull and uninteresting. This certainly doesn’t help with the Galactica ratings, but I don’t believe it is the major factor in the decline.

::: The introduction of controversial topics into plot lines is often risky, particularly with science fiction which is typically considered pure escapism, even when it has a dark element like BSG (i.e.: The potential extermination of the human race and the continued threat from the Cylon.) Generally, Sci-Fi fans want to escape the real world and be entertained, not lectured on the writers’ political or social views of modern events. While any controversial topic is a risk, the introduction of those that are currently so polarizing is almost a guarantee of distancing a significant portion of your fan base.

::: You associated the bombing executed by a Cylon against those carried out by human suicide bombers. The two aren’t even remotely comparable. The first was not executed by a human, was not condoned by the humans, and was executed by an individual who (as already had been established) would be reborn (“downloaded”) into a new body, but as the same individual. The later was not only condoned by members of the upper human leadership, it was presented as a reasonable and acceptable approach in a given situation – a strong statement considering current world events. (As someone who’s nephew’s squad was attacked by the first suicide bomber in the gulf war, killing many of his squad just a few yards in front of him, I will freely admit to strong personal feelings in this matter. None the less, such controversial plot elements are invariably going to strongly offend a significant number of viewers.) The inference that the humans must limit their use of weapons against an enemy bent on the genocide of humanity is another PC component. Biological weapons as a plot element would have been better completely left out rather than used as a mechanism for additional political commentary. Remember, people watch for entertainment, not a reminder of current events or a thinly disguised lecture from Hollywood writers on their political and social opinions.

::: It is also rather telling that the ratings dropped rather significantly after the season 3 premiere (where suicide bombings by humans were introduced and condoned.) I’ll be interested in seeing how the ratings are affected after this latest one sided (read: “PC”) foray into contemporary controversial issues.

::: --[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 20:40, 12 November 2006 (CST)

::::I doubt that the suicide bombings in Occupation and Precipice were "condoned" by the show. Roslin didn't like them. Tigh, who planned them, thought they were bad. Even Baltar (who's been developing a conscience this season, thank the Gods) didn't like them. The first was a waste of life and counterproductive, causing a massive Cylon freakout that would have killed off Roslin, Zarek, Cally and a bunch of other people if the resistance hadn't saved them in the last minute. The second took down the power grid, which was more helpful, but it should be noted that in this case the bomber didn't kill any civilians, just herself and some Cylons. Tigh is still suffering because of the choices he made on New Caprica, and it doesn't look like he's coming out of those moral woods anytime soon.

::::Furthermore, I don't think the show has condemned the use of the Cylon virus, either. Roslin was all about it, after all, and I don't think there's anything less PC than a schoolteacher with a Messiah complex jonesing for some genocide. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 22:33, 12 November 2006 (CST)

:::: The use of nuclear weapons are logical in a space setting where great distances are involved and ships are heavily armoured. I would suspect, though, that a Presidential order would have been required to use nukes on the surface of a populated planet. The use of bio-weapons would probably have similiar restrictions because of their nature. I disagree that this show was PC. The weapon that the humans stumbled upon had a unique ability to wipe out the entire race of cyclons. To use it does carry far more ethical problems than simply using a nuke on a basestar. To use a rl analogy even during WWII the US would have been reluctant to have used a weapon that would have destroyed every Japanese person on the planet--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 09:39, 13 November 2006 (CST)

:::::''To use a rl analogy even during WWII the US would have been reluctant to have used a weapon that would have destroyed every Japanese person on the planet''--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]]

:::::I think that's a poor analogy, since the Japanese were not a threat to kill every American person on the planet, which is what the Cylons are a threat to do (notwithstanding Helo's odious observation that "they tried to live with us on New Caprica"). The humans and Cylons are in a war of absolute total commitment, and it's difficult to imagine how the war can end until one side or the other ceases to exist. In that scenario, you probably have to choose the other side to be the one that ceases to exist.

:::::On the other hand, one might argue that the numbers involved are so staggering that, even to a human, the lives of billions of Cylons must be valued over the lives of forty-some thousand humans. (I'm making a wild guess that the Cylon population is comparable to the pre-war human population of the 12 colonies.) This argument of course assumes that Cylons are "alive" in the same sense as people and are not merely machines. It also ignores the question of whether there is an Earth with a population of billions of humans who need the colonial fleet to survive and give them a heads-up if ''they'' are to have a fighting chance to survive a Cylon attack.

:::::[[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 16:04, 25 November 2006 (CST)

:::I think the show has been attacking issues that are important in our modern world since the beginning. Basic issues like balance of power, whether civilian government should stay in power during a massive crisis and war, religion in general, how to treat thouse different from yourselves (the show has been very ambivalent about killing Cylons, even though they are "just robots"), Baltar's initial refusal to believe in the gods or a god. It has even tackled thitngs like terrorism as a means to an end (Zarek was introduced at the beginning of the first season), abortion, infanticide, torture, treatment of prisoners. In all, it has been very current and politically involved since the beginning. However, with the first 4 episodes of season 3, it took a decidedly controversial and risky turn by depicting our favorite valiant and noble heros under brutal occupation. The writers have guts, and their ratings may have suffered, but they are doing the same thing they've been doing since the beginning of the show. It's just now a lot of poeple who watch TV don't agree with the particular direction the show took. However, even then, it left the viewer to choose for him or herself what to think, it was again ambivalent, which may be what makes it the best show on TV. No, the show will not supply you with easy answers and moral certitude to very important current questions. But that's a good thing, not a bad thing. --[[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 15:49, 13 November 2006 (EST)

::::I have to agree that it's been dealing with controversial issues from the start. One thing I've learned about BsG from watching it is that every time you think there's a line they won't cross, they seem to cross it. I think Yaneh has it right. Now, with them back in space, I do think it might turn more towards classic sci-fi, but I do agree this is not an unprecedented pattern. As for the writing on this particular episode, I think there were some odd references or slip-ups, which to my mind were made for the sole purpose of bailing Galactica out of the responsibility for a genocide. But I'm not going to judge the whole show at this point--it's WAY too early for that. I'm even more of a music buff than a TV buff, and I don't write off a band until there are 3 stinkers in a row. Let's wait and see if this a pattern before we write BsG off. --[[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]]

My additional $.02 - I'm going to have to disagree with my esteemed colleague from across the aisle, GeorgeW. I have no complaint with the political/moral questions that the writers have chosen to tackle this season. I do not believe that sci-fi was ever supposed to be purely escapist. Think of Frank Herbert's Dune which was essentially a political novel in sci-fi clothing. And the reason it is still regarded as one of the greatest sci-fi novels ever written was '''attention to detail!'''

What's made BSG so engaging has been its willingness to tackle the dark and gritty sides of a sci-fi story and thus make it far more real. This season's espisodes especially, have dug into tough questions about the justification of actions taken by a society being oppressed and even threatened with extinction - and kudos to Mr. Moore and Co. for going there! While they chose Nazi-esque imagery to illustrate the cylon occupation of New Caprica, the physical and psycological torture depicted there is exactly what Palestinians have been living with every day for decades, and I think it's extraordinary that this show has dared to ask American audiences to speculate how they would react if the same sort of conditions were imposed on us.

Consider Fox's 24, an unabashed advertisement for torture in the name of patriotism - nothing more than fearmongering to stir up a post-911 traumatised public into a state of jackboot-stamping, flag-waving paranoia, willing to hand over their civil liberties to facists. As grim as the first two episodes of this BSG season were, it was refreshing to see some element of pop culture actually asking viewers to stop and think - rather than just telling them what to believe.

If there's been a drop in ratings as a result of this storyline, it's only because so many Americans have let their capacity for critical thought atrophy over the last 40 years. (But just as likely, as was stated above, it was Sci-fi's choice to break up its powerhouse Friday night schedule. Frankly, canning Atlantis and popping the new Doctor Who episodes into the vacant slot would have been the prefered alternative.)

So back to my original point. With a wink and a nod to technobabble - the show's about homicidal robots for gosh sake - can we please just pay attention to the logical details. It's science-fiction, and we, the viewers, have already given the writers our willing suspension of disbelief. I'm just asking not to be abused with rediculous and downright stupid plot loopholes and gaffes in return for the privilege. I'm not writing off BSG either. Yet. But this last episode, which held such promise for having raised the stakes to the level of genocide, fell utterly flat - tripped up by the banana peels of sloppy writing.

--[[User:IanB|IanB]] 16:54, 14 November 2006 (CST)

In response to the original poster, I agree with you. This is not one of the show's shining moments.

--[[User:Crazyrabbits|Crazyrabbits]] 10:00, 15 November 2006 (CST)

== Explanations ==

A note about the Resurection ship jumping into the battle... it would seem that this is actually a good tactical move from the Cylon perspective. After Pegasus and Galactica easily destroyed the first resurrection ship and it's escorts, it would be prudent for the Cylons to keep the new ship with their fleet... even if this means taking it into battle with them. From their point of view it might look as if Galactica was trying to sucker the baseships away from the resurrection ship so the colonials could attack it. They've already used the "sucker" strategy a number of times, we could just be seeing a Cylon reaction to that strategy. Bringing the ship with them would negate such a threat as several basestars (more than enough to hold galactica off) would be able to cover for it.

As far as supply lines, it would figure that Galactica would know about this. Basic military strategy is to harass or at least keep an eye on enemy supply lines.

Also a note about the raptors and their missiles. The colonials may have found, after the battle over new caprica, that the missile attachments for the raptors were effective and could be adapted for other (combat) uses as well. It would also figure that after the loss of Pegasus, the colonials would be trying everything they could to increase firepower. This is probably just a jury-rig solution for increasing galactica's firepower.

: And all this has yet to be supported on screen. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:45, 13 November 2006 (CST)

::In [[The Captain's Hand]] Admiral Adama orders a recon of 5 Raptors, 2 of them SAR and 3 Escort. Though never seen onscreen heavily armed Raptors must have been around for some time. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 14:57, 13 November 2006 (CST)

: It is also distinctly possible that the weapon pods were not available until the arrival of the Pegasus. The cache at Ragnar Anchorage was likely primarily the weapons themselves, and not a supply of launchers or similar hardware. Since Galactica was slated for retirement and Pegasus was fully operational it is very likely the later ship was much better equipped with combat military hardware.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 22:30, 13 November 2006 (CST)

== About Gaeta ==
Looking at the question here:

: Why is Gaeta so surprised to hear that Baltar is alive, given the fact that he was actually there when D'Anna offered Baltar to be evacuated from New Caprica?

Er, well, the last time Gaeta saw Baltar, he gave him a gun and told him his last chance at redemption was to stop Three from setting off the nuke. Given that the nuke didn't go off, it isn't unreasonable to believe Baltar was successful, and that in succeeding he would have either died or been stranded on New Caprica. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 02:50, 13 November 2006 (CST)

:Gaeta knew that he was chummy with the Cylons. For him to convince them not to detonate the nuke (not hard, given that it would be at best a symbolic gesture) and still make it off the planet alive is well within the realm of possibility. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:56, 13 November 2006 (CST)

==A quick battle==

I was just wondering but is the skirmish with Galactica and the Basestars going to be added into the Second Cylon War or not? Sure it was short but it still had combat and casualties so it should be added to the list. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 19:54, 13 November 2006 (CST)
: Sure, I don't see why not. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:10, 13 November 2006 (CST)

Should it be known as a battle or more of a skirmish? [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 19:21, 22 November 2006 (CST)

==Baltar's Torture==

This is just pure speculation for speculation's sake, but I can't help thinking something more than Three being "touched" by Baltar's insane screaming of "don't stop..." "I believe in you" and "I love you with all my heart" (with internal Six's coaching) is going on in this scene. Three's indiference at the onset of her torturing, and her musing over which torture tool she should use doesnt seem like it could be changed or swayed by anything Baltar would say. i would say that judging from the torture tools they have, and their experiences on New Caprica at extracting information on detainees they know a little about torturing, it doesn't seem that Baltar saying anything he could to stop the torture would be unexpected. This leads me to wonder about exactly what he did say with the help of internal Six. perhaps those phrases, or the way he said it struck something in Three that only Cylons are aware of...maybe it means something that neither the Viewer or Baltar is aware of...I just find it hard to believe that Three, fully prepared for torture, even having fun picking what instrument to use...could be so easily moved from some snivelling bleating human saying he loves her with all his heart...Did Six give Baltar these phrases to say because she knew they'd strike a cord in a fellow Cylon, Three's reaction was quite a reaction, and then touching his lips like she couldn't believe those words came out of his mouth.....I don't know...just speculating.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 12:23, 14 November 2006 (CST)

--I wonder if the incongruity of those phrases to the situation of being tortured made Three wonder if Baltar was projecting. Now, if they've tortured other humans, they've probably seen people break with reality and shut down before, but perhaps that's a reaction beyond anything they've ever seen before. More like a Cylon being tortured? Is that what their instinct is, if they're in the same situation as Baltar? --[[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]]

==Note about the virus is incorrect==

The note:

Dr. Cottle identifies the disease as Lymphocytic encephalitis, however encephalitis is a condition (swelling of the brain) that can be caused by a pathogen, not a pathogen itself. More likely the pathogen is Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus.

When a doctor identifies a disease, he normally states the name of the disease, not the name of the virus. The note itself states that Doc Cottle identifies the "disease," not the pathogen. I think the note needs to be modified or deleted. --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 20:58, 13 November 2006 (CST)

== Accessing the "Hybrid?" ==

Is that what Athena is doing? Do we know that? It just sounds odd when phrased that way. [[User:Wldkt1|Wldkt1]] 02:56, 14 November 2006 (CST)

== The antibody degradative debate? ==

Ok, the latest addition to this point is the most scientifically accurate (antibodies do not have degradative functionality)! Read the wiki articles yourself to confirm and help you understand. On a more serious note if contributors (chiefly the second one on this topic) feel that an explanation or analysis point is incorrect or poorly explained than they need to do their homework before they dispute it and make up their own science. I know its only a fan wiki on battlestar but lets not plague our site with scientific inconsistencies like in 'A measure of Salvation' (Their science advisor must of been on holiday when this was written), after all we have luxury of being able to correct ourselves in hindsight ;) [[User:Jxh487|Jxh487]] 18:10, 15 November 2006 (CST)

:Sorry, but antibodies *do* have degradative capability, it has been known for at least 4 years now. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/298/5601/2195

::Alright, this is getting silly now. This article is talking about the antibody catalysed generation of peroxide and an ozone analogue, referring to the apparent toxicity of these products to bacterial species - no mention of RNA degradation (or any other kind of degradation for that matter) here, mate!. Im super sorry, but AB's **don't** have degradative functionality! [[User:Jxh487|Jxh487]] 15:08, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:After spending over 25 years working in the clincial field (including being a lab director and now consultant), much of it involving research in imunology, immunohematology, genetics, and similar areas, I believe I know a bit more than what's presented in a few overly simplistic paragraphs in some an abbreviated article. I've dealt with far to many on the internet like yourself who reads a few sentences and brands themselves an expert. I came to this site because I believed it would be an enjoyable place to talk about my favorite show, but apparently this is just another one flled with those who prefer to hide behind their monitors and make snide comments. I'm not here to get into this type of garbage, so that's it, I'm done and out of here.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 01:07, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::There will always be people that claim to know all and others that really do belive that they know the right answer. The solution is just to provide loads of sourced for what you say. I dont know of your technical background but it would be very beneficial for all if you stayed and we can work this bit out. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:02, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::I'm sorry you feel that way, and I do have a solution to the above issue. It's a really simple solution, so here goes: all the science information needs to be sourced. I'm not talking about using links to Wikipedia (which we shouldn't really be sourcing from anyway), but I'm talking about adding sources from scientific journals and the like. References that GeorgeW should have access to, if I'm correct on that. Otherwise, I'm inclined to yank the entire thing since it isn't sourced at all. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:41, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::: I have cited an excellent reference on this topic in the article, a text that was very useful to me in my first undergrad year. It would be rather difficult to cite an appropriate journal (even a review) because the topic is very basic. In addition very few people would have access to any article cited without paying or having a subscription (personal or institutional), though most major libraries are bound to stock this text. My inclusion of Wiki articles as references were due to the fact that they provide a sound and simplistic (extremely accurate, believe it or not!) explanation of the relevant topics, as I assume most people reading these articles don't have a degree in a biological science. As for George W. Bush's 25 years of clinical experience (hmm?), I'd like to know if he's willing to dispute a scientific textbook! [[User:Jxh487|Jxh487]] 17:51, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::::Regardless of who is right or wrong (I'm NOT taking sides here), there shouldn't be debate in the analysis section. Currently it reads like:
::::A
:::::NOT (A)
::::::NOT (NOT (A))
::::Which is NOT (Encycopledic) to read. Pull out your sources, measure them (weigh them, whatever), and the winner takes all (and gets a quick blurb about A (or NOT (A)) in the "Analysis" section). Also, when citing your sources you may want to make use of the [[:Category:Citation templates|citation templates]] when citing books, journal articles, etc. That's what makes the cool little footnotes that show up in the "References" section. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 18:06, 16 November 2006 (CST)

== sickbay ship ==

William Adama says in the final scene:

:''Cottle's report from the virus: He thinks that it was simply an accidental contamination of the beacon '''we''' abandoned on '''the sickbay ship'''.''

*What is ''the sickbay ship''? When did this happen?
*Who does ''we'' refer to in this statement if Adama and Laura seem to believe that the beacon was left there as a ''signpost to earth''?

--[[User:Pix|Pix]] 01:35, 17 November 2006 (CST)

:From Sadgeezer's transcript:
:'''Adama, standing''': Cottle's report on the virus. He thinks that it was simply an accidental contamination of the beacon we abandoned on the sick baseship.

:'''Roslin''': Somebody sneezed, maybe.

:SO to the first, I think it was sick baseship, not sickbay ship. And the we refers to the Fleet collectively, but specifically to themselves (being the decisionmakers that decided to leave it onboard the baseship rather than bring it aboard and risk contamination). It sounds like they maybe wish they'd have picked it up now, but at least they're on the right track.
:If you check out the [[Podcast:A Measure of Salvation|podcast transcript]], you'll hear/see that actually as originally scripted they did pick up the beacon, and were going to chuck it through space at the Cylons, but the writers/producers decided that was lame and chose to leave it on the destroyed ship rather than have to deal with getting rid of it in a subsequent episode. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:46, 17 November 2006 (CST)

::Haha, I can't believe that Adama's strange speaking rhythm in that scene completely threw me off. The interpretation, ''sick baseship'' had never entered my mind, despite making considerably more sense. --[[User:Pix|Pix]] 19:42, 17 November 2006 (CST)

== Battle Article ==
Does the little skirmish deserve a "Battle of NCD2539" article? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 17:57, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:Sure. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:49, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== Virus "Discussion" ==
Wouldn't the majority of this "discussion" fit in the [[Life sciences in the Re-imagined Series
]] article? Would make the episode article much neater. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:10, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:Why is it beyond everyone to just admit that the medical technobabble was complete BS? There's no profit to be found in coming up with excuses for it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:24, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== I don't get it. ==

Can somebody explain the premise of this episode? How does this virus threaten to become a genocidal pandemic?

There was some technobabble that I didn't quite understand (perhaps somebody can elucidate) about how an infected Cyclon who dies would somehow download the contagion along with its memories.

Accepting that the infected Cylon remains infected after resurrection, how would the contagion spread from there? Presumably the first words out of the mouth of the Cylon after resurrection would be "I'M INFECTED!!!" and the resurrection ship would quarantine itself, or simply destroy itself. Even if the carrier Cylon were unable to communicate its status, the Cylons still know about the existence of the threat (which is why the infected basestar was left marooned), and are presumably intelligent enough not to let anything leave a resurrection ship without first being checked and cleared.

I've watched the episode twice now, and I still have no idea how this virus was supposed to threaten the entire Cylon race. Can somebody explain it so that this idiot (me) can understand?

On an unrelated note, Hera, who cured Roslin's cancer in an earlier episode and has now rendered Athena immune to the Cylon plague, is starting to remind me of the magical crossbreed from [[Wikipedia:V (The Final Battle)|V: The Final Battle]]. When you're cribbing from "V," you're really scraping the bottom of the sci-fi barrel.

[[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 15:17, 25 November 2006 (CST)

: Well, it's confusing and the writers would have made the episode better had they actually thought this through and presented the idea to a science advisor, such as Dr. Kevin Grazier. From what I personally can gather from watching this episode, the effects of the virus would corrupt Cylon programming. (The actual virus itself wouldn't be transmitted, since biological viruses are not transmitted during the download process, the memories -- applications and application data, if you will -- are.) Given that memories are shared between Cylon models, it's feasible that there is a central memory database that is constantly being revised (like a wiki, for instance). If you add corrupted information and that information is transmitted throughout the Cylon collective (for lack of a better term), it would cause the Cylons to stop functioning, hence the threat. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:09, 25 November 2006 (CST)

::And unlike the magic cancer-cure Athenas immunity through pregnancy appears quite credible, given that there are many ways a womans body can be affected by a pregnancy, e.g. under certain conditions involving the [[Wikipedia:Rhesus blood group system|Rhesus Factor]] a pregnancy can lead to the intoduction of genes into the mothers body, that trigger a creation of antigens that will pose a threat to the childs during all further pregnancys. In this case it would simply be that Hera possesses a slighly different form of the human antibody compatible with the cylon body. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 16:37, 25 November 2006 (CST)

Talk:A Measure of Salvation/Archive 1

2006-11-25T22:37:16Z

Nevfennas: /* I don't get it. */

==Picture?==
Is that picture from A Measure of Salvation? I don't remember Three and Six projecting themselves into a forest. The outfits they are wearing look like what they wore while torturing Baltar, so maybe it's from a deleted scene. Unless I've forgotten the scene for some reason, shouldn't we get a picture that actually came from the episode? -- [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:10, 11 November 2006 (CST)

== Some Poor Writing ==

Attention to detail is what has set BSG apart from so many other science-fiction shows - including Mr. Moore's Star Trek franchises. So I was very disappointed last night to see the sloppy errors piling up deep. I'd have to see the epsiode again to list them all, but mainly them problems concerned the virus.

The scene where potentially infected Galactica crew are "quarantined", together with Sharon, in a room with cold-storage plastic flaps was ridiculous.

It's preposterous to think that a cylon would casually betray his race for the anti-viral drug. He has no assurance that he won't be double-crossed, and he certainly - even after torture - wouldn't spell out the danger the virus poses to the cylon fleet. The audience isn't stupid and neither should the Galctica crew be. Seeing Lee with a dim little lightbulb over his head was just insulting to us all.

Past episodes have cleary shown that cylon ressurection occurs over significant distances, (greater than FTL jumps), and that calls into question the fundemental logistics of Adama's infection plan.

There would be no reason to jump Galactica itself, just sending one raptor with a cylon transponder and one infected cylon would have done the trick. (Nevermind the ease with which two cylon raiders almost instantly materialize into a whole cylon fleet with a resurrectionship conveniently in tow.)

The analysis on the episode summary page provides an excellent plot device allowing the raid to "succeed" thus justifying the major build-up of the two part story. In fact, it would have made a superb three part arc.

Hypothetical episode 3: Spend some realistic period of time finding a reasonably sized cylon fleet, infect them, virus begins spreading throughout area covered by the "local" resurrection ship. Cylons scramble to head off disease, Baltar gains points by developing Hera vaccine, cylons survive but with major "body-blow" giving Galactica and fleet some breathing room as they prepare to investigate the new lead to Earth.

Please don't get me wrong, I love this show, but sci-fi writing has always been done on the cheap and it make my eyes roll as I struggle to care about characters forced through non-sensical plot contortions. Please, Mr. Moore, DON'T LET BSG SINK TO THE SAME SAD FATE! I'm trusting that this was just a hiccup not a trend.

--[[User:IanB|IanB]] 13:08, 11 November 2006 (CST)

:In defense of the writers, I think you are wrong on two points:
:*Jumping Galactica makes sense. In [[Scar]] Cylon Raiders are engaging in skirmishes despite the absence of a resurrection ship. A Raptor is not a big enough threat to guarantee the presence of a resurrection ship. If one isn't in range by accident the Cylons would probably engage the Raptor without it and take a minor risk of permanently loosing a few raiders. And after [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]] the Cylons could be exspected to take a closer look to any unexpected Raptors with a Cylon transponder showing up. If they destroy it without a resurrection ship in range, the plans failed. Also Racetrack stated last episode that there is a shortage of Raptors in the fleet, noone is going to be eager to sacrifice one. Jumping Galactica ensures the Cylon require lots of forces, expect lot's of casualties and have a resurrection ship nearby, though I could have done without seeing it arrive on the battlefield, that's bad and inconsistent strategy, just to make sure the audience knows that it is in range.

:*There is probably a greater timespan between arrival of the patrol and that of the strikeforce then shown onscreen. Helo manipulates the oxygen-system after the jump, nevertheless the prisoners are already dead by the time the resurrection ship appears, indicating a least a few minutes have passed. The process can be seen in [[Flight of the Phoenix]] in the firing range scene (it's likely that Helo manipulated the same system).

:Two more plotholes I noticed: How do the Colonials know the Cylon supply lines? And given that they know Athena is immune because she's given birth to a hybrid child, they should wonder if there a more human-cylon hybrids. Even without knowing that Hera is still alive, if the massive Cylon effort to create hybrids resulted in creating at least one more hybrid the cylons would take a blow, but would not be exstinct. By the way it would be nice if we would hear something about these efforts. When Hera is shown for the first time in Cylon hands would be a good opportunity to close that chapter with a throwaway line that all these efforts were fruitless and stopped. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 11:24, 12 November 2006 (CST)

:: That's an interesting question -- one that I had myself, actually. Even if the effort didn't destroy the Cylon race (and I think that goal is overly optimistic), the virus would have given a serious blow to the Cylons, which would only serve to give the survivors more breathing room -- not to metion the increase in general morale, which the survivors seriously need after the farce at New Caprica. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:53, 12 November 2006 (CST)

I would have to agree the writing is poor. The series seems to be drifting from its roots and moving into the Hollywood PC political statement world. This season has already thrown in suicide bombing and implied it was acceptable, now there is a drift into making political statements about biological weapons (even though nuclear weapons have been freely used in the past.) It seems the writers are abandoning their science fiction roots and reaching to make their own personal social or political commentary. I do hope they get back to what I considered truly exceptional science fiction and stop these editorials.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 00:06, 12 November 2006 (CST)

Followup: According to and article on the Gateworld site ([http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/news/2006/10/season_three_ratings_slip_from_premiere.shtml]) the ratings have been slipping. As much as I truly love this show, I know my wife and I were both rather disgusted with the previous inclusion of the suicide bombers and now the “loss of humanity” references associated with the potential use of biological weapons. I have also heard complaints from two of our friends. I’m concerned that if this direction is continued it will not only ruin the show, it will also drive away viewers resulting in cancelation. As a long time science fiction fan (I even remember watching the original showings of Lost in Space and the first Star Trek) this has been my all time favorite show up until now. I would hate to see it have an early demise. As I mentioned above, I hope the writers can return to science fiction and entertainment.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 16:13, 12 November 2006 (CST)

:: Ratings have been slipping for ''SG-1'' and ''Atlantis'' as well; neither have the strong allegories to today's world, or the world of yesteryear for that matter. So I don't fully buy that there's a direct correlation between the creative direction BSG is going and the loss in viewership. Actually, one could probably argue (more successfully in my informed opinion) that the loss of ratings has more to do with Sci-Fi's scheduling decisions of breaking up the "Three Amigos" (''Stargate SG-1'', ''Stargate Atlantis'' and ''Battlestar Galactica''). As for the "loss of humanity" and suicide bombing themes, these have existed since the miniseries (Number Five's suicide bombing attempt in "[[Litmus]]" and Adama's speech in the miniseries and platitudes since then). -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:53, 12 November 2006 (CST)

::: In my very informed opinion, I would have to disagree on several points. While time slots and lineup can affect ratings, this usually is reflected in those of the shows with the weaker individual draw. Galactica is a cornerstone show which should draw up the ratings for those around it rather than have such a slump from a lineup change.

::: As for the previous Friday lineup, SG-1 ratings have steadily declined since the departure of Richard Dean Anderson. His departure also seemed to coincide with decline in the quality of the writing, though I’m not convinced the two were related rather than just coincidental. I have always believed the SG Atlantis was the weak link in that lineup and was carried by its position between SG-1 and BSG. As mentioned in the article I referenced above, Dr. Who, which leads into BSG, has had poor ratings this season. I believe the replacement of the very likable actor playing the title role, though consistent with the original BBC series, was a detriment to this series. In addition, this season’s writing has seemed less creative and entertaining. I greatly enjoyed their first season, but have found the current one to be rather dull and uninteresting. This certainly doesn’t help with the Galactica ratings, but I don’t believe it is the major factor in the decline.

::: The introduction of controversial topics into plot lines is often risky, particularly with science fiction which is typically considered pure escapism, even when it has a dark element like BSG (i.e.: The potential extermination of the human race and the continued threat from the Cylon.) Generally, Sci-Fi fans want to escape the real world and be entertained, not lectured on the writers’ political or social views of modern events. While any controversial topic is a risk, the introduction of those that are currently so polarizing is almost a guarantee of distancing a significant portion of your fan base.

::: You associated the bombing executed by a Cylon against those carried out by human suicide bombers. The two aren’t even remotely comparable. The first was not executed by a human, was not condoned by the humans, and was executed by an individual who (as already had been established) would be reborn (“downloaded”) into a new body, but as the same individual. The later was not only condoned by members of the upper human leadership, it was presented as a reasonable and acceptable approach in a given situation – a strong statement considering current world events. (As someone who’s nephew’s squad was attacked by the first suicide bomber in the gulf war, killing many of his squad just a few yards in front of him, I will freely admit to strong personal feelings in this matter. None the less, such controversial plot elements are invariably going to strongly offend a significant number of viewers.) The inference that the humans must limit their use of weapons against an enemy bent on the genocide of humanity is another PC component. Biological weapons as a plot element would have been better completely left out rather than used as a mechanism for additional political commentary. Remember, people watch for entertainment, not a reminder of current events or a thinly disguised lecture from Hollywood writers on their political and social opinions.

::: It is also rather telling that the ratings dropped rather significantly after the season 3 premiere (where suicide bombings by humans were introduced and condoned.) I’ll be interested in seeing how the ratings are affected after this latest one sided (read: “PC”) foray into contemporary controversial issues.

::: --[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 20:40, 12 November 2006 (CST)

::::I doubt that the suicide bombings in Occupation and Precipice were "condoned" by the show. Roslin didn't like them. Tigh, who planned them, thought they were bad. Even Baltar (who's been developing a conscience this season, thank the Gods) didn't like them. The first was a waste of life and counterproductive, causing a massive Cylon freakout that would have killed off Roslin, Zarek, Cally and a bunch of other people if the resistance hadn't saved them in the last minute. The second took down the power grid, which was more helpful, but it should be noted that in this case the bomber didn't kill any civilians, just herself and some Cylons. Tigh is still suffering because of the choices he made on New Caprica, and it doesn't look like he's coming out of those moral woods anytime soon.

::::Furthermore, I don't think the show has condemned the use of the Cylon virus, either. Roslin was all about it, after all, and I don't think there's anything less PC than a schoolteacher with a Messiah complex jonesing for some genocide. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 22:33, 12 November 2006 (CST)

:::: The use of nuclear weapons are logical in a space setting where great distances are involved and ships are heavily armoured. I would suspect, though, that a Presidential order would have been required to use nukes on the surface of a populated planet. The use of bio-weapons would probably have similiar restrictions because of their nature. I disagree that this show was PC. The weapon that the humans stumbled upon had a unique ability to wipe out the entire race of cyclons. To use it does carry far more ethical problems than simply using a nuke on a basestar. To use a rl analogy even during WWII the US would have been reluctant to have used a weapon that would have destroyed every Japanese person on the planet--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 09:39, 13 November 2006 (CST)

:::::''To use a rl analogy even during WWII the US would have been reluctant to have used a weapon that would have destroyed every Japanese person on the planet''--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]]

:::::I think that's a poor analogy, since the Japanese were not a threat to kill every American person on the planet, which is what the Cylons are a threat to do (notwithstanding Helo's odious observation that "they tried to live with us on New Caprica"). The humans and Cylons are in a war of absolute total commitment, and it's difficult to imagine how the war can end until one side or the other ceases to exist. In that scenario, you probably have to choose the other side to be the one that ceases to exist.

:::::On the other hand, one might argue that the numbers involved are so staggering that, even to a human, the lives of billions of Cylons must be valued over the lives of forty-some thousand humans. (I'm making a wild guess that the Cylon population is comparable to the pre-war human population of the 12 colonies.) This argument of course assumes that Cylons are "alive" in the same sense as people and are not merely machines. It also ignores the question of whether there is an Earth with a population of billions of humans who need the colonial fleet to survive and give them a heads-up if ''they'' are to have a fighting chance to survive a Cylon attack.

:::::[[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 16:04, 25 November 2006 (CST)

:::I think the show has been attacking issues that are important in our modern world since the beginning. Basic issues like balance of power, whether civilian government should stay in power during a massive crisis and war, religion in general, how to treat thouse different from yourselves (the show has been very ambivalent about killing Cylons, even though they are "just robots"), Baltar's initial refusal to believe in the gods or a god. It has even tackled thitngs like terrorism as a means to an end (Zarek was introduced at the beginning of the first season), abortion, infanticide, torture, treatment of prisoners. In all, it has been very current and politically involved since the beginning. However, with the first 4 episodes of season 3, it took a decidedly controversial and risky turn by depicting our favorite valiant and noble heros under brutal occupation. The writers have guts, and their ratings may have suffered, but they are doing the same thing they've been doing since the beginning of the show. It's just now a lot of poeple who watch TV don't agree with the particular direction the show took. However, even then, it left the viewer to choose for him or herself what to think, it was again ambivalent, which may be what makes it the best show on TV. No, the show will not supply you with easy answers and moral certitude to very important current questions. But that's a good thing, not a bad thing. --[[User:Yaneh|Yaneh]] 15:49, 13 November 2006 (EST)

::::I have to agree that it's been dealing with controversial issues from the start. One thing I've learned about BsG from watching it is that every time you think there's a line they won't cross, they seem to cross it. I think Yaneh has it right. Now, with them back in space, I do think it might turn more towards classic sci-fi, but I do agree this is not an unprecedented pattern. As for the writing on this particular episode, I think there were some odd references or slip-ups, which to my mind were made for the sole purpose of bailing Galactica out of the responsibility for a genocide. But I'm not going to judge the whole show at this point--it's WAY too early for that. I'm even more of a music buff than a TV buff, and I don't write off a band until there are 3 stinkers in a row. Let's wait and see if this a pattern before we write BsG off. --[[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]]

My additional $.02 - I'm going to have to disagree with my esteemed colleague from across the aisle, GeorgeW. I have no complaint with the political/moral questions that the writers have chosen to tackle this season. I do not believe that sci-fi was ever supposed to be purely escapist. Think of Frank Herbert's Dune which was essentially a political novel in sci-fi clothing. And the reason it is still regarded as one of the greatest sci-fi novels ever written was '''attention to detail!'''

What's made BSG so engaging has been its willingness to tackle the dark and gritty sides of a sci-fi story and thus make it far more real. This season's espisodes especially, have dug into tough questions about the justification of actions taken by a society being oppressed and even threatened with extinction - and kudos to Mr. Moore and Co. for going there! While they chose Nazi-esque imagery to illustrate the cylon occupation of New Caprica, the physical and psycological torture depicted there is exactly what Palestinians have been living with every day for decades, and I think it's extraordinary that this show has dared to ask American audiences to speculate how they would react if the same sort of conditions were imposed on us.

Consider Fox's 24, an unabashed advertisement for torture in the name of patriotism - nothing more than fearmongering to stir up a post-911 traumatised public into a state of jackboot-stamping, flag-waving paranoia, willing to hand over their civil liberties to facists. As grim as the first two episodes of this BSG season were, it was refreshing to see some element of pop culture actually asking viewers to stop and think - rather than just telling them what to believe.

If there's been a drop in ratings as a result of this storyline, it's only because so many Americans have let their capacity for critical thought atrophy over the last 40 years. (But just as likely, as was stated above, it was Sci-fi's choice to break up its powerhouse Friday night schedule. Frankly, canning Atlantis and popping the new Doctor Who episodes into the vacant slot would have been the prefered alternative.)

So back to my original point. With a wink and a nod to technobabble - the show's about homicidal robots for gosh sake - can we please just pay attention to the logical details. It's science-fiction, and we, the viewers, have already given the writers our willing suspension of disbelief. I'm just asking not to be abused with rediculous and downright stupid plot loopholes and gaffes in return for the privilege. I'm not writing off BSG either. Yet. But this last episode, which held such promise for having raised the stakes to the level of genocide, fell utterly flat - tripped up by the banana peels of sloppy writing.

--[[User:IanB|IanB]] 16:54, 14 November 2006 (CST)

In response to the original poster, I agree with you. This is not one of the show's shining moments.

--[[User:Crazyrabbits|Crazyrabbits]] 10:00, 15 November 2006 (CST)

== Explanations ==

A note about the Resurection ship jumping into the battle... it would seem that this is actually a good tactical move from the Cylon perspective. After Pegasus and Galactica easily destroyed the first resurrection ship and it's escorts, it would be prudent for the Cylons to keep the new ship with their fleet... even if this means taking it into battle with them. From their point of view it might look as if Galactica was trying to sucker the baseships away from the resurrection ship so the colonials could attack it. They've already used the "sucker" strategy a number of times, we could just be seeing a Cylon reaction to that strategy. Bringing the ship with them would negate such a threat as several basestars (more than enough to hold galactica off) would be able to cover for it.

As far as supply lines, it would figure that Galactica would know about this. Basic military strategy is to harass or at least keep an eye on enemy supply lines.

Also a note about the raptors and their missiles. The colonials may have found, after the battle over new caprica, that the missile attachments for the raptors were effective and could be adapted for other (combat) uses as well. It would also figure that after the loss of Pegasus, the colonials would be trying everything they could to increase firepower. This is probably just a jury-rig solution for increasing galactica's firepower.

: And all this has yet to be supported on screen. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:45, 13 November 2006 (CST)

::In [[The Captain's Hand]] Admiral Adama orders a recon of 5 Raptors, 2 of them SAR and 3 Escort. Though never seen onscreen heavily armed Raptors must have been around for some time. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 14:57, 13 November 2006 (CST)

: It is also distinctly possible that the weapon pods were not available until the arrival of the Pegasus. The cache at Ragnar Anchorage was likely primarily the weapons themselves, and not a supply of launchers or similar hardware. Since Galactica was slated for retirement and Pegasus was fully operational it is very likely the later ship was much better equipped with combat military hardware.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 22:30, 13 November 2006 (CST)

== About Gaeta ==
Looking at the question here:

: Why is Gaeta so surprised to hear that Baltar is alive, given the fact that he was actually there when D'Anna offered Baltar to be evacuated from New Caprica?

Er, well, the last time Gaeta saw Baltar, he gave him a gun and told him his last chance at redemption was to stop Three from setting off the nuke. Given that the nuke didn't go off, it isn't unreasonable to believe Baltar was successful, and that in succeeding he would have either died or been stranded on New Caprica. --[[User:Saforrest|Saforrest]] 02:50, 13 November 2006 (CST)

:Gaeta knew that he was chummy with the Cylons. For him to convince them not to detonate the nuke (not hard, given that it would be at best a symbolic gesture) and still make it off the planet alive is well within the realm of possibility. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:56, 13 November 2006 (CST)

==A quick battle==

I was just wondering but is the skirmish with Galactica and the Basestars going to be added into the Second Cylon War or not? Sure it was short but it still had combat and casualties so it should be added to the list. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 19:54, 13 November 2006 (CST)
: Sure, I don't see why not. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 20:10, 13 November 2006 (CST)

Should it be known as a battle or more of a skirmish? [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 19:21, 22 November 2006 (CST)

==Baltar's Torture==

This is just pure speculation for speculation's sake, but I can't help thinking something more than Three being "touched" by Baltar's insane screaming of "don't stop..." "I believe in you" and "I love you with all my heart" (with internal Six's coaching) is going on in this scene. Three's indiference at the onset of her torturing, and her musing over which torture tool she should use doesnt seem like it could be changed or swayed by anything Baltar would say. i would say that judging from the torture tools they have, and their experiences on New Caprica at extracting information on detainees they know a little about torturing, it doesn't seem that Baltar saying anything he could to stop the torture would be unexpected. This leads me to wonder about exactly what he did say with the help of internal Six. perhaps those phrases, or the way he said it struck something in Three that only Cylons are aware of...maybe it means something that neither the Viewer or Baltar is aware of...I just find it hard to believe that Three, fully prepared for torture, even having fun picking what instrument to use...could be so easily moved from some snivelling bleating human saying he loves her with all his heart...Did Six give Baltar these phrases to say because she knew they'd strike a cord in a fellow Cylon, Three's reaction was quite a reaction, and then touching his lips like she couldn't believe those words came out of his mouth.....I don't know...just speculating.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 12:23, 14 November 2006 (CST)

--I wonder if the incongruity of those phrases to the situation of being tortured made Three wonder if Baltar was projecting. Now, if they've tortured other humans, they've probably seen people break with reality and shut down before, but perhaps that's a reaction beyond anything they've ever seen before. More like a Cylon being tortured? Is that what their instinct is, if they're in the same situation as Baltar? --[[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]]

==Note about the virus is incorrect==

The note:

Dr. Cottle identifies the disease as Lymphocytic encephalitis, however encephalitis is a condition (swelling of the brain) that can be caused by a pathogen, not a pathogen itself. More likely the pathogen is Lymphocytic choriomeningitis virus.

When a doctor identifies a disease, he normally states the name of the disease, not the name of the virus. The note itself states that Doc Cottle identifies the "disease," not the pathogen. I think the note needs to be modified or deleted. --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 20:58, 13 November 2006 (CST)

== Accessing the "Hybrid?" ==

Is that what Athena is doing? Do we know that? It just sounds odd when phrased that way. [[User:Wldkt1|Wldkt1]] 02:56, 14 November 2006 (CST)

== The antibody degradative debate? ==

Ok, the latest addition to this point is the most scientifically accurate (antibodies do not have degradative functionality)! Read the wiki articles yourself to confirm and help you understand. On a more serious note if contributors (chiefly the second one on this topic) feel that an explanation or analysis point is incorrect or poorly explained than they need to do their homework before they dispute it and make up their own science. I know its only a fan wiki on battlestar but lets not plague our site with scientific inconsistencies like in 'A measure of Salvation' (Their science advisor must of been on holiday when this was written), after all we have luxury of being able to correct ourselves in hindsight ;) [[User:Jxh487|Jxh487]] 18:10, 15 November 2006 (CST)

:Sorry, but antibodies *do* have degradative capability, it has been known for at least 4 years now. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/298/5601/2195

::Alright, this is getting silly now. This article is talking about the antibody catalysed generation of peroxide and an ozone analogue, referring to the apparent toxicity of these products to bacterial species - no mention of RNA degradation (or any other kind of degradation for that matter) here, mate!. Im super sorry, but AB's **don't** have degradative functionality! [[User:Jxh487|Jxh487]] 15:08, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:After spending over 25 years working in the clincial field (including being a lab director and now consultant), much of it involving research in imunology, immunohematology, genetics, and similar areas, I believe I know a bit more than what's presented in a few overly simplistic paragraphs in some an abbreviated article. I've dealt with far to many on the internet like yourself who reads a few sentences and brands themselves an expert. I came to this site because I believed it would be an enjoyable place to talk about my favorite show, but apparently this is just another one flled with those who prefer to hide behind their monitors and make snide comments. I'm not here to get into this type of garbage, so that's it, I'm done and out of here.--[[User:GeorgeW|GeorgeW]] 01:07, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::There will always be people that claim to know all and others that really do belive that they know the right answer. The solution is just to provide loads of sourced for what you say. I dont know of your technical background but it would be very beneficial for all if you stayed and we can work this bit out. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:02, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::I'm sorry you feel that way, and I do have a solution to the above issue. It's a really simple solution, so here goes: all the science information needs to be sourced. I'm not talking about using links to Wikipedia (which we shouldn't really be sourcing from anyway), but I'm talking about adding sources from scientific journals and the like. References that GeorgeW should have access to, if I'm correct on that. Otherwise, I'm inclined to yank the entire thing since it isn't sourced at all. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:41, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::: I have cited an excellent reference on this topic in the article, a text that was very useful to me in my first undergrad year. It would be rather difficult to cite an appropriate journal (even a review) because the topic is very basic. In addition very few people would have access to any article cited without paying or having a subscription (personal or institutional), though most major libraries are bound to stock this text. My inclusion of Wiki articles as references were due to the fact that they provide a sound and simplistic (extremely accurate, believe it or not!) explanation of the relevant topics, as I assume most people reading these articles don't have a degree in a biological science. As for George W. Bush's 25 years of clinical experience (hmm?), I'd like to know if he's willing to dispute a scientific textbook! [[User:Jxh487|Jxh487]] 17:51, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::::Regardless of who is right or wrong (I'm NOT taking sides here), there shouldn't be debate in the analysis section. Currently it reads like:
::::A
:::::NOT (A)
::::::NOT (NOT (A))
::::Which is NOT (Encycopledic) to read. Pull out your sources, measure them (weigh them, whatever), and the winner takes all (and gets a quick blurb about A (or NOT (A)) in the "Analysis" section). Also, when citing your sources you may want to make use of the [[:Category:Citation templates|citation templates]] when citing books, journal articles, etc. That's what makes the cool little footnotes that show up in the "References" section. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 18:06, 16 November 2006 (CST)

== sickbay ship ==

William Adama says in the final scene:

:''Cottle's report from the virus: He thinks that it was simply an accidental contamination of the beacon '''we''' abandoned on '''the sickbay ship'''.''

*What is ''the sickbay ship''? When did this happen?
*Who does ''we'' refer to in this statement if Adama and Laura seem to believe that the beacon was left there as a ''signpost to earth''?

--[[User:Pix|Pix]] 01:35, 17 November 2006 (CST)

:From Sadgeezer's transcript:
:'''Adama, standing''': Cottle's report on the virus. He thinks that it was simply an accidental contamination of the beacon we abandoned on the sick baseship.

:'''Roslin''': Somebody sneezed, maybe.

:SO to the first, I think it was sick baseship, not sickbay ship. And the we refers to the Fleet collectively, but specifically to themselves (being the decisionmakers that decided to leave it onboard the baseship rather than bring it aboard and risk contamination). It sounds like they maybe wish they'd have picked it up now, but at least they're on the right track.
:If you check out the [[Podcast:A Measure of Salvation|podcast transcript]], you'll hear/see that actually as originally scripted they did pick up the beacon, and were going to chuck it through space at the Cylons, but the writers/producers decided that was lame and chose to leave it on the destroyed ship rather than have to deal with getting rid of it in a subsequent episode. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:46, 17 November 2006 (CST)

::Haha, I can't believe that Adama's strange speaking rhythm in that scene completely threw me off. The interpretation, ''sick baseship'' had never entered my mind, despite making considerably more sense. --[[User:Pix|Pix]] 19:42, 17 November 2006 (CST)

== Battle Article ==
Does the little skirmish deserve a "Battle of NCD2539" article? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 17:57, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:Sure. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:49, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== Virus "Discussion" ==
Wouldn't the majority of this "discussion" fit in the [[Life sciences in the Re-imagined Series
]] article? Would make the episode article much neater. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 18:10, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:Why is it beyond everyone to just admit that the medical technobabble was complete BS? There's no profit to be found in coming up with excuses for it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:24, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== I don't get it. ==

Can somebody explain the premise of this episode? How does this virus threaten to become a genocidal pandemic?

There was some technobabble that I didn't quite understand (perhaps somebody can elucidate) about how an infected Cyclon who dies would somehow download the contagion along with its memories.

Accepting that the infected Cylon remains infected after resurrection, how would the contagion spread from there? Presumably the first words out of the mouth of the Cylon after resurrection would be "I'M INFECTED!!!" and the resurrection ship would quarantine itself, or simply destroy itself. Even if the carrier Cylon were unable to communicate its status, the Cylons still know about the existence of the threat (which is why the infected basestar was left marooned), and are presumably intelligent enough not to let anything leave a resurrection ship without first being checked and cleared.

I've watched the episode twice now, and I still have no idea how this virus was supposed to threaten the entire Cylon race. Can somebody explain it so that this idiot (me) can understand?

On an unrelated note, Hera, who cured Roslin's cancer in an earlier episode and has now rendered Athena immune to the Cylon plague, is starting to remind me of the magical crossbreed from [[Wikipedia:V (The Final Battle)|V: The Final Battle]]. When you're cribbing from "V," you're really scraping the bottom of the sci-fi barrel.

[[User:Capedia|Capedia]] 15:17, 25 November 2006 (CST)

: Well, it's confusing and the writers would have made the episode better had they actually thought this through and presented the idea to a science advisor, such as Dr. Kevin Grazier. From what I personally can gather from watching this episode, the effects of the virus would corrupt Cylon programming. (The actual virus itself wouldn't be transmitted, since biological viruses are not transmitted during the download process, the memories -- applications and application data, if you will -- are.) Given that memories are shared between Cylon models, it's feasible that there is a central memory database that is constantly being revised (like a wiki, for instance). If you add corrupted information and that information is transmitted throughout the Cylon collective (for lack of a better term), it would cause the Cylons to stop functioning, hence the threat. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:09, 25 November 2006 (CST)

::And unlike the magic cancer-cure Athenas immunity through pregnancy appears quite credible, given that there are many ways a womans body can be affected by a pregnancy, e.g. under certain conditions involving the [[Wikipedia:Rhesus blood group system|Rhesus Factor]] a pregnancy can lead to the intoduction of genes body into the mothers body, that trigger a creation of antigens that will pose a threat to the childs during all further pregnancys. In this case it would simply be that Hera possesses a slighly different form of the human antibody compatible with the cylon body. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 16:37, 25 November 2006 (CST)

Humanoid Cylon speculation

2006-11-20T21:04:36Z

Nevfennas: /* Gaius Baltar? */

The [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon's]] transformation into [[Cylon agent|humanoid form]] introduces serious problems for the remnant of humanity known as [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] to identify Cylon operative from human.

This article details [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad#Derived content|plausible speculation]] on central and supporting characters in ''[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica]]'' who, based on their behavior, motive, and background, could be a Cylon agent.

==Needed Qualifiers for Speculation==

For a character to be logically considered a possible agent, there are a few established parameters to meet:

* '''The suspect must not have any adult children or siblings.''' For purposes of this article, a pregnancy can be generally established as a disqualifier. With [[Sharon Agathon|one exception]], Cylon agents have extreme difficulty with human sexual reproduction to the point of effective infertility.<ref>During a discussion of the reproductive intentions of Cylons in [[The Farm#Noteworthy Dialogue|The Farm]]: 
'''Starbuck''': So farms, that’s great. What were they gonna do? Knock me up with some Cylon kid? '''Sharon''': They were gonna try to. We haven’t been successful so far. '''Anders''': Supposedly they can’t reproduce. You know biologically. So they have been trying every which way to produce offspring.</ref> If a character has adult, biological children, it automatically excludes them as being a Cylon agent as the procreation of the child and the age of the child both violate the 2nd qualifier. Although humanoid Cylons have, eventually, proven to be capable of reproduction with humans, the birth of the hybrid child [[Hera]] was considered such a seminal event by the Cylons that it seems safe to conclude that no Cylon ever had a child before that point.
* '''The suspect must not have a verifiable family history''' (other than marriage). A parent would have known their child from birth (unless otherwise specified), and Cylons are not copies of preexisting humans. This is an expansion of the "confirmed character history" point below.
* '''The suspect cannot be confirmed to have witnessed or participated in the [[Cylon War]].''' This is another expansion of the "confirmed character history" point; it is assumed the Cylons had no models advanced enough to plausibly pass as humans (i.e. [[Wikipedia:Android|androids]] and [[Wikipedia:Gynoid|gynoids]]), so if someone is confirmed to have lived during or participated in the war 40 years ago, that person is not a Cylon, e.g. William Adama and Saul Tigh. Note that apparent age is ''not'' a disqualifer; the Cylon agent model known as [[Cavil]] appears as old as William Adama and Saul Tigh.
* '''The suspect does not have a reliable history''' involving direct association (i.e. working or personal relationship) with a confirmed human character for '''more than 2 years prior''' to the destruction of the Colonies. Based on information from the [[Miniseries]], the Cylon agents began their infiltration and integration into Colonial society approximately 2 years before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. If a character has a direct association with a character that cannot be a Cylon agent, that association excludes them since they are older than the stated time that the agents began to integrate themselves into Colonial society. Note that the 2-year period is based on information given by [[Number Six]] to [[Gaius Baltar]]: Their relationship lasted for 2 years prior to the Cylon attack. There is also supporting information that [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer's]] tour of duty in the Colonial Fleet was also approximately 2 years.

According to [[Ron D. Moore]], the twelve humanoid models are based on human behavior and personality archetypes distilled into twelve varieties. '''Cylon agents are NOT copies or clones of any pre-existing humans, living or dead'''<ref>In an October 24th, 2005 [http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml podcast interview] Ron Moore stated, "The idea is not there was one like an original human model that they were copied from. The idea was that these were...these models of Cylon were developed out of their own study of us. The Cylons on some level looked at humanity and said, 'Well, you know what, there's really only twelve of you...and these are the twelve.' And then if you look at them, they kind of represent different archetypes of what humanity is."</ref>.

Please note that [[Wikipedia:retcon|retroactive continuity changes]] are possible in the series<ref>Retconning has occurred previously, from as the amount of time remaining in the President's term (between "[[Bastille Day]]" and "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]") or the number of prisoners held aboard the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' (between the [[Miniseries]] and "[[Bastille Day]].").</ref> This article is based on plausible speculation, which is also highly fluid in content and can violate {{tl|NPOV}} policies if taken too far in the extreme.

==Suspected Cylon infiltrators==

===Moderate probability of being a Cylon===

====Anastasia "Dee" Dualla?====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No<ref>While Dualla has mentioned her father in the episode, "[[Final Cut]]," he has not been seen on-screen. The [[Battlestar Wiki:Separate continuity|separate continuity]] character of [[Darrin Dualla]] is not canonical with this qualification.</ref>
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Unknown
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Moderate

[[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] seems to have a fairly well developed backstory regarding her past; she is a Sagittaron ([[Bastille Day]]), her father disapproved of her joining the military ([[Final Cut]]), but upon closer inspection none of this can be confirmed by a third party: the only source of information about Dualla's past in the series has been Dualla herself. Dualla's position in charge of ''Galactica's'' communications puts her in an ideal position for subversion. In "[[Valley of Darkness]]", Dualla is found in the enlisted head, having suffered a blow to the head from Cylon Centurions that passed through, the only survivor in the compartment. Cylon agents have often demonstrated the ability to physically damage themselves for a cause, including self-destruction<ref>There are numerous instances in the series, including [[Sharon Agathon|Caprica-Valerii's]] attack from a copy of Number Six to give plausibilty for [[Helo]], and a suicide-bombing by a [[Number Five]].</ref>. Dualla could have feigned injury to avoid suspicion. Dualla's relationships with members of both government and military command ([[Billy Keikeya]] and [[Lee Adama]]) increase her involvement with secrets in the Fleet.

====Gaius Baltar?====
* Known siblings or adult children: None
* Known family members: None
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifying character: Unknown (described as a close personal friend of [[Richard Adar|President Adar]])
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Moderate

[[Gaius Baltar]]'s odds of being a Cylon are low, but not impossible. The miniseries establishes him as a prominent public figure for years. Cylons talking amongst themselves in "[[Downloaded]]" continually referred to Baltar as a human. In "[[Torn]]" [[Caprica-Six]] mentions that she was (and possibly still is) considering to have a child with Baltar, which would appear impossible if he was a Cylon. However, when learning of the Cylon's "projection" abilities in "[[Torn]]" and how they may be related to his vision of Number Six, Baltar himself begins to question whether or not he is a Cylon.

{{spoiltext|Recent information from cast members that portray Cylons suggest a season 3 storyline that indicates that the revealed agents may not know the identity of the five remaining Cylon agents.}}

For more this character's probability, see the article, [[Baltar as Cylon speculation]].

===Low probability of being a Cylon===

====Samuel Anders?====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Unknown (Was Pyramid Ball player but not known for how long)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low

[[Samuel Anders|Anders]] was a well known public figure as a sports star, although the length of his time in [[Pyramid (RDM)|pyramid sport]] is not known. In "[[Downloaded]]", a copy of [[Number Three]] and [[Caprica-Six]] refer to Anders as human. (see spoiler above)

==== Bell? ====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Association with known disqualifing character: No
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low

D'anna Biers' [[Bell|cameraman/assistant]] is another possible candidate for a Cylon infiltrator, as he has been shown willingly taking part in the same devious and manipulative activities as D'anna Biers ([[Final Cut]]). Whether he is a Cylon working in tandem with Biers, or just a nosy human journalist following his superior’s equally devious wishes has yet to be determined.

Bell's speculation as a Cylon agent is questionable based on some of his actions in "Final Cut." When he is free of D'anna Biers, he doesn't film sensitive, if seemingly trivial, data. He overlooks the carbon dioxide scrubbers (a potential Cylon infiltrator target). In addition, instead of filming the [[hangar deck]] after the destruction of the two [[Raider]]s, Bell focuses on Apollo's post-flight check. Since Bell has not been seen in the series since this episode, the lack of further appearances all but eliminates the likelihood for this character to be a Cylon agent.

==== Felix Gaeta? ====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Association with known disqualifing character: Yes (William Adama)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low

As tactical officer, [[Felix Gaeta]], being technically minded, is initially fond of [[Gaius Baltar|Dr. Baltar's work]]. He admitted to ignoring the [[Cylon transponder|Cylon device]] found below the [[DRADIS]] console in the [[Miniseries]], believing it to be part of the new [[Galactica Museum|museum]]. Gaeta neglects an update to [[emergency jump coordinates]] to the Fleet ([[Scattered]]), and proposes creating a [[Computers|computer]] network to fix the matter, leaving the ship vulnerable (and compromised twice).

Gaeta's recent behavioral changes from the stress of working at evading the Cylons shows by "[[Final Cut]]" as Gaeta is shown in his interview drunk, smoking, and wearing a new tattoo. By the following episode, "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", Gaeta angrily snaps at Colonel Tigh for giving a difficult order, causing surprise throughout [[CIC]] as Gaeta is normally a calm, reserved officer even under the worst of conditions. Contrast this behavior with "Boomer" Valerii, who still appeared quite alert after 5 continuous days of combat status. Note the following dialogue from the first regular series episode, "[[33]]":

::'''[[Lee Adama|Apollo]]''': Hey, how about you, Boomer? [[Cottle|Doc]] tells me you're holding up better than anybody in the squadron.
::'''Boomer''': I'm tired, like everybody else.
::'''Apollo''': You never seem it.
::'''[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]''': 'Cause she's a Cylon.
::'''Boomer''': You're just gonna make me come over there and kick your ass, aren't you?

While even Cylon agents develop severe behavioral and physiological issues after extended work and abuse ([[Number Six#Gina|Pegasus]]), Cylon agents appear to be more resilient than humans, which may limit the likelihood of Gaeta's possible Cylon connection. On the other hand, if he were a Cylon, Gaeta's human personality may have finally been overtaxed by that time, suggesting that an actual human might have snapped earlier in their exodus in contrast.

Gaeta's likelihood as a Cylon operative may be in doubt over one key element: The Cylons appear to have integrated human agents into the Colonies no earlier than 2 years before the events of the Miniseries. Gaeta has served on ''Galactica'' with Commander Adama for three years ([[Miniseries]]). Saul Tigh confirms that he has worked with Gaeta for 4 years ([[Collaborators]]).

Gaeta chose to stay with Baltar's puppet administrator on New Caprica to feed inside information to the resistance, which Galen Tyrol confirms ("[[Occupation]]," "[[Precipice]]," "[[Collaborators]]"). Since humanoid Cylons are not clones of actual humans, the likelihood of Gaeta as a Cylon agent would depend on the start of Cylon agent introduction. Further, it would be illogical for Gaeta not to reveal himself as a Cylon once the occupation of New Caprica was completed.

====Cally Tyrol?====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Unknown
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low to None

[[Cally Tyrol|Cally Henderson]] shoots "Boomer" Valerii in a "Jack Ruby-style" assassination, preventing the Fleet from interrogating her further. While this might benefit the Cylon agenda, Henderson had a perfectly understandable reason for doing it, which she has openly stated: she hates Boomer for her association with Chief Tyrol and for her betrayal in shooting Adama.

Henderson is married to Galen Tyrol and has a son, [[Nicholas Tyrol|Nicholas]] as of season 3. Given the magnitude of problems in creating Cylon or Cylon/human offspring, Cally Tyrol's pregnancy is a substantially powerful disqualifier as an agent.

====Galen Tyrol?====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (William Adama)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' Low to None

Chief [[Galen Tyrol]] was in an illicit relationship with "Boomer" Valerii, and later has recurring nightmares based on his fear of being a Cylon sleeper agent. Having served under Commander Adama for 5 years, Adama noted that, if Tyrol was a Cylon, he has had plenty of resources and opportunity to destroy the battlestar.

Galen and Cally Tyrol's child, [[Nicholas Tyrol]], all but removes suspicion for this character, given the difficulties in Cylon- or Cylon/human conception.

===Characters eliminated from suspicion===

The following characters are disproven from any possibility of being Cylon agents.

====Lee "Apollo" Adama====
* Known siblings or adult children: Yes, with qualifier (See "[[Black Market]]")
* Known family members: Yes ([[William Adama]], [[Zak Adama]])
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (William Adama)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None<ref>There are reports of fan fiction with stories involving [[Lee Adama]] as a Cylon. Battlestar Wiki does not post fan fiction (whole or in excerpts), or speculation generated by these stories. An article's content must (with [[Numerology|some]] [[Toaster|silly]], [[The Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game|non-sequitur]] [[Flashlight|exceptions]]) provide sufficient basis in fact or probability based on aired episode information or other official sources as described in the [[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad]] project page.</ref> 

In "[[Flesh and Bone]]", a copy of [[Leoben Conoy]], a Cylon agent, grabs [[Laura Roslin]] and tells her, "Adama is a Cylon," prior to his execution. If his statement is true, it leaves doubt on which Adama he is talking about, although Roslin's actions in the next episode, "[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]" indicate that she believes Conoy spoke of Commander Adama.

Cylon agents are not copies (clones) of existing people. At the start of the Miniseries, Commander Adama is given a photo of his two young sons from the [[Colonial Fleet (RDM)|Fleet archives]]. The complexity of creating a false family unit is not uncommon with Cylon agents, but Commander Adama's own role in the Cylon War reinforces the high odds against a Cylon ruse using Lee Adama. No information has been given that Cylon agents age as humans do, increasing the probability against a ruse. William Adama has, naturally, known his son since birth.

The episode "[[Black Market]]" suggests that Adama was to be a father in events weeks before the Cylon attack. Such a pregnancy goes against the extreme difficulties of Cylon-human conception.

A further point against the possibility of Apollo being a Cylon agent is that in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" he was exposed to a virus which is lethal to Cylons but cannot infect humans, and he did not sicken.

====William Adama====
* Known siblings or adult children: Yes ([[Lee Adama]] and [[Zak Adama]])
* Known family members: Yes ([[Caroline Adama]] and [[Anne Adama]])
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: Yes (widely-known Veteran)
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (Saul Tigh)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

Of all the suspected infiltrators, the case against [[William Adama]] appears to be the weakest.

In the Miniseries, Adama knows that the Cylon's "[[Silica Pathways|silica pathways]]" would be affected by the EM discharges around [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. While copies of [[Leoben Conoy]] and [[Number Five]] show signs of being affected after several hours in the cloud, Adama did not show symptoms after hours of exposure.

William Adama is the father of two children, [[Lee Adama|Lee]] and [[Zak Adama|Zak]]. Before the conception of [[Sharon Agathon]]'s hybrid child, the Cylons are unable to produce children through sexual reproduction. Further, Adama is, by all accounts, a veteran of the well-documented [[Cylon War]], back at a time where Cylons were purely mechanical and not biosynthetic.

The strongest convincing evidence against Adama as a Cylon is that we have seen flashbacks of Adama and Saul Tigh set 20 years prior to the destruction of the Colonies, after the first Cylon War. Since Cylon agents aren't copies of humans, it is not possible for Adama (or Tigh) to be Cylon operatives (at least of the type used thus far).

====Karl "Helo" Agathon====
* Known siblings or adult or hybrid children: Yes ([[Hera]])
* Known family members: No
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes, with qualifier (Kara Thrace)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

[[Karl Agathon|Helo]] fathers a Cylon-human hybrid, [[Hera]], with a known Cylon agent, [[Sharon Agathon|Sharon Valerii]]. The aired events of season 1 on occupied Caprica that show the Cylon's manipulation of Helo and Caprica-Valerii to foster conception confirms that Helo is human.

As mentioned in "[[Scattered]]", Helo and Starbuck have known each other for a number of years, though how many years their friendship has been is indeterminate.

====Helena Cain====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (William Adama)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

Admiral [[Helena Cain]] may have been ruthless and a danger to the Fleet, but she was a publicly known figure for years. Cain spent years rapidly rising through the ranks all the way up to Admiral. Commander Adama has personally witnessed this rise, which must have taken longer than the 2 year cutoff for likely Cylon agent infiltration as defined in this article.

The character is also [[Resurrection Ship, Part II|dead]], which removes her from suspicion unless another Cain appears in a future episode in "current" time.

==== Billy Keikeya ====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: No
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

The character of Billy Keikeya dies in the episode, "[[Sacrifice]]." As only Cylon agents can "return from the dead," the argument for Keikeya as a Cylon agent is effectively invalid unless the character appears in a present-time (non-flashback) episode of the series, which would confirm Keikeya's true nature.

==== James "Jammer" Lyman ====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Association with known disqualifing character: No
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

Jammer dies in the episode "[[Collaborators]]." Since only Cylons can "return from the dead," Jammer is removed from suspicion unless he returns in "current time" (outside of a flashback).

====Laura Roslin====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: Yes (character over age 40)
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (President [[Richard Adar]])
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

Roslin was a public figure for 20 years ([[Litmus]]), working with later-President Adar and eventually serving as Secretary of Education. Cylon agents appear to be resistant to cancer, and Roslin was dying of cancer until she was cured by a blood transfusion from the [[Hera|Cylon-human hybrid]] fetus ([[Epiphanies]]).

====Kara "Starbuck" Thrace====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: Yes (alluded to in "[[The Farm]]" by [[Simon]])
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: No
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes, with qualifier (the Adama family, Karl Agathon)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] has been disproven from being a Cylon: [[Simon]] wanted to use Starbuck's egg cells in Cylon/human hybrid experiments. It would be illogical to take genetic material from another Cylon agent.

Thrace's association with [[Zak Adama]] occurred over two years prior to the Cylon attack ([[Miniseries]]). Additionally, as mentioned in "[[Scattered]]", Starbuck and Helo have known each other for a number of years, though how many years their friendship has been is indeterminate.

==== Ellen Tigh ====
* Known siblings or adult children: None
* Known family members: None
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: Yes (character over age 40)
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Seven-year marriage to [[Saul Tigh]]
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

Ellen Tigh dies in the episode "Exodus, Pt. II." As only Cylon agents can "return from the dead," the argument for Ellen Tigh as a Cylon agent is effectively invalid unless she returns outside of a flashback in present time.

====Saul Tigh====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: None
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: Yes (widely-known Veteran)
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (William Adama)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

[[Saul Tigh]] is well known as a veteran of the first Cylon War, and has served as a non-obscure officer in the Fleet for decades. In many respects the case against Saul Tigh being a Cylon is similar to that of William Adama's (above).

The strongest convincing evidence against Tigh as a Cylon is that we have seen flashbacks of Tigh and William Adama set 20 years prior to the destruction of the Colonies, after the first Cylon War. Since Cylon agents aren't copies of humans, it is not possible for Tigh or Adama to be Cylon operatives (at least of the type used thus far).

====Tom Zarek====
* Known siblings or adult children: No
* Known family members: No
* Confirmed to have lived during the Cylon War: Yes (character over age 40)
* Three-year or longer association with disqualifing character: Yes (President Adar, publicly known to be held in prison for 20 years)
* '''Chances of being a Cylon:''' None

[[Tom Zarek]] may seem subversive to the status quo of the Fleet and initially opposed to President Roslin's administration, but he can't be a Cylon. Zarek has been a well-known terrorist/political dissident for decades. He is widely known for blowing up a government building on Sagittaron, leading to his arrest 20 years ago, and he was presumably a prominent Sagittaron leader for years beforehand. President Adar publicly offered him amnesty if he would renounce his campaign of violence to free Sagittaron, which Zarek refused.

As Vice President under Gaius Baltar, Zarek refused to collaborate with the Cylon occupation ([[Precipice]]), is incarcerated for months after the takeover, and is nearly killed in an aborted mass execution attempt at [[Pergamus Flats]] on [[New Caprica]]. It would be illogical for Zarek to remain concealed as a Cylon once the occupation began.

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Cylons]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-20T20:53:52Z

Nevfennas: /* Possible Discontinuity */

== Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) ==
I was reading the quote from Eick, "...Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies." and for some reason I felt that thie reminded me of Gorge Washington long before we was president or even commander-in-chief when, before the 7-Years-War, Washington was involved in a skirmish with the French over Fort Necessity, aka Pittsburgh (yes, we fought a battle for that city) that led to Washington signing a treaty stating, unbeknownst to him because he couldn't speak French and his interpreter sucked, that he committed attrocities against France in the name of the British Empire. This, according to many historians, led to the 7 Years War, known in America as the French and Indian War, that would decimate Northern Germany. I'm sure Washington at some level had to be aware of this error on his part and led him to remorse I imagine. Anyways, the story is different but I was wondering how many parallels there will be, if there will be, in this episode to Washington's conundrum. I wanted to ask a question on the article page but couldn't concise it enough for wiki standards. I may ask on the scifi bboard but input on this would be appreciated before I do. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 19:42, 3 August 2006 (PST)
:That's an interesting analogy, showing a fine attention to historical detail. I think the parallel has minor flaws, though, since Washington's conduct in that matter isn't generally considered morally wrong so much as foolish. [[Wikipedia:Gavrilo Princip|Gavrilo Princip]] might be worth considering as a parallel; he was the immediate but not ultimate cause of a devastating war, and he precipitated the conflict by attacking his fellow countryman, thinking it justified in contrast to the general consensus. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:28, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

:: It's unlikely that Adama's actions are quite the transgression that he believes it to be; after all, the [[cylon agent|Cylons had been violating the armistice line]] for about a half a year prior to Adama's, anyway.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 02:09, 18 November 2006 (CST)

::: I was wondering about the timeline as well. I think Adama says somthing like, the mission was a year before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack]], but the cylons had been planning the attack for two years. However, I think there is an error in the timeline. Adama also says he served with Boomer for two years, and I think he implied that it was on Galactica. Gaeta also says that he served with Adama for three years. It is possible that Gaeta was on the Valkyrie for a year, but I think the mission happened about two years before the attack, not just one. I will rewatch the episode, but do you have any ideas? [[User:Jrmurph|Jrmurph]] 12:21, 18 November 2006 (EST)
:::: I think there is an inconsistency in the story. It is not unexplainable, ie Gaeta and Boomer served with Adama on the Valkyrie, but it did seem like nobody other than Adama or Tigh recognized Bulldog so the timeline is a little esquew. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:01, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Another Battlestar? ==
There is a spoiler image showing Adm Adama and Col Tigh in the CIC of the Battlestar Valkerie. I zoomed in on Adama and saw he had his Admiral's pins on. Might this be a sign that they soon will find yet another Battlestar? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:24, 15 November 2006 (CST)
: It's a flashback scene. It may be more of a costuming error. Note that Tigh still has his eye in that promo shot. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 01:39, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:: Right. Two eyed Tigh. Darn. I was hoping they'd find another Battlestar cause I do miss the Pegasus. It was bigger, much cooler and the doors made this cool "beep" when they opened. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:50, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::You can visit [[Valkyrie]] as well. It's a spoiler until Friday but you can adjust it with some new data later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::It's true, I saw the Admiral pips as well, the flashback should have been Commander pips; as the Stealth ship incident occurred three years ago. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 22:56, 17 November 2006 (CST)
: The Valkerie looked to be a Mercury class Battlestar. This would make sense because the galactica class was an older ship and has been all but replaced with the newer bigger and more efficent Mercury class.--[[User:Mike|Mike]] 09:30, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It's definately not a Mercury, the only part really similar is the engine block. If anything, it looked most like a reimagining of the original series battlestar, down to the rectangular opening in the flightpod and the angular head. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:47, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::Inside it looks like a Mercury yes. That's a sign of its age. But outside, it's far smaller than a full-sized battlestar. Look at the gun battery on the top. There's only one and almost covers the width of the ship there. See the Valkyrie page for more details (where this discussion should take place), but I think it's basically a smaller battlestar meant for support duties. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:52, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:: Not disagreeing with your main point, but its quite possible that there were far more Battlestar classes than just the "Cylon War Type" and the Mecurcy class, given that the colonies built up a fleet of arround 120 Battlestars over about 50 years, particularly as the Viper apparently went through 5 different itterations over this time, although we are likely never going to see the intervening versions of either type --[[User:Useless|Useless]] 09:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Barry Kennedy as Admiral Corman ==

Hey all, I was just checking on Barry Kennedy's link, and it links to an IMDB page other than his profile page detailing his filmography, and etc. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 23:52, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:That's because some people keep forgeting the "nm" when entering imdb numbers and in that case the link default to title instead of actor --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:53, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The Stealth-Star==
hey i just noticed this but the name of the ship was the stealth star so someone(not me)should create it a page. Best Snorkel378
:Already done [[Stealth Star]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:41, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The scene with Baltar, Six and Three in bed==
it says on there that 3 is having a sexual realationship with baltar and six?
Cylons arent lesbos i think they were having a 3some {{unsigned|Snorkel378}}
:You are assuming that the Six we see is Caprica-Six and not Baltar's internal Six. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 20:49, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It would be an odd choice cinematically to have Three wake up from a dream and show us something from inside Baltar's head. {{unsigned|Wldkt1}}
:::Please remembe rto sign your posts on talk pages guys <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:05, 19 November 2006 (CST)
The fact that Baltar and Six are in a 'clutch' position makes it unlikely that it's his internal Six. Three would have noticed Baltar trying to hug thin air in his sleep. Baltar is also in the center of the bed, rather than on one side. In addition, Caprica seems to be aware of (and approves) Three's new interest in Baltar. Regarding the possibility of a relationship between Three and Six: that is only speculation, but just because we haven't seen a lesbian relationship between cylons doesn't mean one isn't possible.[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 22:18, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:It could be that Caprica-Six sees this as a way to weaken Baltar--after all, the formula for getting Baltar to give up secrets seems pretty clear: get in his bed, get in his head, so to speak. Remember that during the torture in previous episodes, he said to Three, "I love you with all of my heart." That's what started the relationship, so I think Three is interested in Baltar for whatever reason, not necessarily Six. Plus, on a more humorous note...I have to wonder if the Cylons have any sexual relations amongst themselves at all. This could be one deprived Cylon... [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:24, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==The Black Ops Mission==
Does anyone think that the entire mission was poorly concieved? First, the Colonials jump a Battlestar to very close range of the armistice line, which one would expect to attract attention in and of itself. Second, we see the ''Valkyrie'' track the S-Star after launch and over the line. This either means the Valkyrie tracked it directly on DRADIS, which indicates it's not much of a stealth ship and that the Cylons should be able to detect it as well, or the S-Star has some sort of transponder reporting its position, which is also something the Cylons should detect. Finally, as referenced in the main article, the S-Star maintains radio contact with the ''Valkyrie'' throughout the whole mission, again something the Cylons should be able to detect. Would the writers have really overlooked all this, or are we meant to conclude that the Admriality meant for the mission to have been discovered by the Cylons? --[[User:Cleophus|Cleophus]] 22:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:-The mission is quite similar to the United States' U2 overflights during the late 1950's and 60's. Certain similarities between the depicted incident and the [[:wikipedia:U-2 Crisis of 1960|incident involving Francis Gary Powers]] can be read. It also conjures up several dozen observation flights by aircraft such as specially outfitted C-130's flying perilously close to a boundary line — even going so far as to slip a wingtip across it to "call a bluff". Also, there's the incident involving the Chinese Gai-8 fighter and the US P-3 Orion.
:In the case of our Colonials here, the stealth craft is more than likely equipped with an "odd frequency" (either very low or very high), encrypted transponder that transmits on a specific wavelength, only for IFF purposes. If I recall correctly, F-117 Nighthawks can still use their radios when on ops (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I suspect that this mission was proposed in order to get a glimpse into ''any'' Cylon activity. The stealth craft would be dangled out as a tiny bit of bait – just enough to get a response. Its stealth characteristics would increase its ability to dash back across the Armistice Line untracked and unaffected, and then ''Valkyrie'' would be able to observe and record the arriving Cylons. If questions were raised ("What are you doing here?" ... "Good question, what are ''you'' doing here?" ... "We detected you over the Armistice Line." ... "Who, us? Noooo... We've been on our side this whole time, just trolling about, watching over our miners over there on that moon there. So why are you here again? You don't mind if we take some photos of you while you're here, do you?"), the Colonials would feign ignorance and innocence, but they'd at least have a response... something that the Cylons haven't even projected in thirty-plus years. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

==Folks in White Robes==
Aren't there five white-robed figures in Number Three's vision? It's pretty speculative, but maybe these are meant to represent the five missing Cylon models (maybe they've undergone some kind of transcendence, and are "with God now" or something). Maybe the article should note this (after all, the white-robes show up for the first time just a couple episodes after we first learn that there's definitely something different or mysterious about the five missing models), though I don't know the proper section for it. {{unsigned|Steve}}

:- I noticed that too, but was going to "acquire" the episode and re-watch that part, or watch it again on Monday to see... I _think_ there are five humanoid figures in white robes, kneeling or seated in that semi-circle when Three walks amongst them. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:Three's in the opera house on Kobol where Baltar's internal Six shows him Hera's cradle; I believe those are the same white drapes that can be seen on the opera house stage in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 11:38, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Reference to Raising Arizona? ==

I'm new here, so I didn't want to jump right into the thick of things by adding this to the main page before running it by other people...when Adama and Novacek are sitting down for the first time, Adama asks him something like "How did you escape, Bulldog?". Novacek rambles for a little bit (again, I don't remember exact words) but wraps up with "I felt the facility no longer had anything to offer me...". If I'm not mistaken, this is a reference to Raising Arizona--John Goodman's character says just about the exact same thing after he breaks out of prison. I can't seem to find the line on IMDB or Wikiquote, though... {{unsigned|MikeDanger}}
:Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:08, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:As far as I remember "Raising Arizona", the dialogue goes like this: 
:''- You busted outta jail?'' 
:''- No, ma'am. We released ourselves on our own recognizance.'' 
:''- What Evelle is tryin' to say is we felt the institution no longer had anything to offer us.'' -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:28, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== Insight into Cylon plan ==
If the Cylons know where the Colonials are, or at least know well enough to send Bulldog at them, it's common sense to ask, why don't they just attack? Well, maybe their goal isn't to destroy Galactica et al outright but something more complex. One thing that does seem consistent with their plan is their desire to kill Adama, perhaps because they want to send the fleet into disarray without him at the top. Examples: Leoben telling Roslin that Adama's a Cylon in Flesh and Blood, Boomer shooting Adama repeatedly in Kobol's Last Gleaming Pt. II. There may be more examples that I can't think of right now.

People have been crying out "plot hole!" with reckless abandon in light of Bulldog's ability to pinpoint Galactica's position, but if the Cylon plan really is as simple as ''kill all humans,'' as these detractors might claim, then much of the show falls apart. The reality is, we don't really know the Cylon plan, and at this point, there's really no reason to jump to the conclusion that the writers are just too lazy to think of one. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 18:22, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:The Cylons might know full well where the Colonials are but if they jumped in a couple of Basestars then the fleet would zip out of there pretty sharpish and might go somewhere where the Cylons dont know and they will have to find them all over again. IMO, their plan is a long game. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 19:17, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:IMHO, "Hero" is the weakest episode of the series yet. There's just too many logic errors for me to dismiss as part of the "suspension of disbelief" process. For instance, how does Bulldog have the time to learn how to pilot a Cylon raider, when Starbuck took hours to figure out how to operate the thing? Also, how would Bulldog be able to operate the FTL drive -- Kobol's Last Gleaming pretty much made it clear that the FTL drive needed an actual computer, given that the brain had to be ripped out in order for it to be piloted manually. But that's another not so fine mess.
: As for the Cylon plans, well, they're clearly compliated and seem to be changing since the attack. Whether or not this is by design has yet to be detrmined, though I sincerely doubt that the writer's have this thing all planned out a la ''Babylon 5''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:30, 19 November 2006 (CST)

::Yeah, I know what you're saying. I also doubt it's all planned out B5-style (hasn't Ron basically said something to that effect anyway, like how much they enjoy making it up as they go along?), but that doesn't mean it necessarily can't all add up in the end, and we should assume that they ''do'' know what they are doing until they are proven wrong.

::Also, a lot of people have been talking about how unrealistic it is for Bulldog to have learned how to operate the raider in such a short time. I'm not trying to start an arguement about this, but I don't actually remember them saying that he had only a short time to learn how to use the raider. Are you guys just assuming that he had to learn it all quickly based on the rushed nature of his escape? Is there a reason he couldn't have actually had a few hours to do it? I mean, if they let him escape, then he could have been in the basestar hangar for hours trying to work the controls while they watched (and snickered) from behind the glass. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 23:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:I agree that a lot of people have seemed predisposed to cry foul lately--I can understand how the scientific goofs in "A Measure of Salvation" could've set people on edge--but I do think it's possible that if the Cylons are operating under a religious motivation, that their plan does go beyond a simple "kill all humans" approach. They may see the need to exact specific steps of revenge/torture against humanity, perhaps a particular punishment for each perceived offense. That's just one possibility, but it could well be they have the death of a thousand cuts in mind for the remnants of humanity. I think Drumstick's probably on to something here. Or you know, if they wanted Bulldog to escape, they could have trained a Raider (which wasn't injured like Starbuck's) to understand and obey his commands or even set it up with an interface that a human could use. Until we see proof or disproof of all the different theories, I think it's too early to try to claim BsG has jumped the shark or anything similar. I also have to wonder if anybody here has writing experience with writing a full-length work. I am working on my first novel, and keeping total, perfect consistency is not easy and while I tend to get the big things right, I am still finding a lot of subtle things that need tweaking, and this despite my best efforts. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:17, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Possible Discontinuity ==
According to the episode, Adama and friends served on the Valkyrie a year before the attacks. This implies that Adama was only commander of the Galactica for a year before the miniseries. Yet on the Kara Thrace article, it states that Thrace "resigned from flight school as a instructor and transferred as an operational pilot aboard battlestar Galactica under the command of William Adama, where she served for some '''two years prior to the Cylon attack''' on the Twelve Colonies." They can't both be right.

Also, from the Tyrol article: "He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including Columbia, Atlantia, and Pegasus (Resistance). He has served under William Adama on Galactica for five years (Litmus)." If he served under Adama for 5 years, why didn't he mention the Valkyrie when he was being intimidated by Tigh in Resistance? This could be simply because Tigh would have known that.--[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 22:16, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:No, your first impulse is correct - it's quite certainly an error.
:'''Gaeta:''' And... may I take this opportunity to say that it's been both a pleasure and an honour to serve under you [Adama], these past three years. ([[Miniseries]])
:'''Adama:''' We [Thrace and I] talked about a lot of things. We've been aboard this ship for over two years, we know each other very well. ([[Act of Contrition]])
:'''Adama:''' She [Valerii] was more than that to us. She was more than that to me. She was a vital, living person... aboard my ship for almost two years. She couldn’t have been just a machine. Could you love a machine? ([[The Farm]])
:Also, note that the timeline in Adama's dossier (which seems to be accurate based on other data points) puts his transfer to ''Galactica'' at six years prior to the miniseries.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It is quite possible that this is not an error ''per se''. Adama and some of his command staff could easily have been assigned to the more modern Valkyrie from Galactica for the mission. It wouldn't make much sense to send "the bucket" on a stealth mission anyway. Notice Valkyrie seemed smaller and was probably more modernized, which would make it all the better for that type of mission. So Adama could easily have been in command of Galactica for several years prior, been offered command of Valkyrie as a reward, for career advancement or just for the mission... and have been pushed back to Galactica when the mission failed. Certainly the plan to decommission Galactica was in the works for some time, and they would not want one of their good commanders to retire with the ship... until after the mission where he failed. None of the characters would be expected to say "I served under Adama for some years, and some other guy for a couple of months, then Adama again." They would just say they served with him for X number of years. If we compare to the modern US Navy, this sort of thing is not all the uncommon.--[[User:Xealot|Xealot]] 10:22, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:::The dossier's progression from XO of ''Columbia'' to Commander of ''Valkyrie'' to Commander of ''Galactica'' seems to indicate that ''Valkyrie'' was his first battlestar command. Though I agree that the serve under "X years" would fly if they stayed under him. It's just the "this ship"'s that start biting them. (When they specify the ship instead of the command.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:53, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It's really embarassing in continuity. If they had put the entire affair a few years further into the past, it would have made much more sense not only in Adamas biography, but also in the overall plot. Boomer served on ''Galactica'' for two years and probably spend some additional time at flight school, so Adama must know the Cylon infiltration started long before the Stealth-Star incident. This should really get Adama to ask himself how long the attack had been planned, though he might convince himself that the Cylons put their infiltrators in place just as a precaution and his actions led to their decision to actually use them. A few years more time between the attack and the incident would put the estimated start of Cylon infiltration (which actually could be anywhere between 2 and 20 years before the attack) around the same time, giving Adama a far more powerful reason to believe that he started it right there. I would like to think that putting the incident one year before attack was just an accident, but then it would probably become even more difficult to explain how Bulldog survived that long.

::Another point that's problematic: did ''Valkyrie'' have an integrated computer-network? Up to this episode all information we had suggested that all battlestars save ''Galactica'' had them and that it was Adamas position of ''no network on my ship'' that prevented an upgrade.

::*If ''Valkyrie'' had a network Adamas politics of ''it's all hand on here'' are somewhat harder to believe. Up to now it looked like the position of a war-veteran who opposed networks on principle, this is harder to believe if he already commanded a ship with such a network.

::*If there was no network on ''Valkyrie'', then why wasn't there one? It appears extremely unlikely that the networks were all installed in the time between the incident and the attack, though the decision cannot have been made to long before Adama took command of ''Galactica'', because the previous commander would probably have had it installed. And given that it must have been a major decision to put networks on battlestars once more it's hard to believe that the Admirality would allow commanders to pull the plug on it as they see fit. I can imagine Adamas opposition being tolerated on ''Galactica'', because it was an old battlestar nearing it's decommissioning with a design that may have been especially hard to upgrade (regardless of Gaetas patchwork in [[Scattered]]). They could have simply decided that it was not worth the effort to force Adama to accept the upgrade. But that would be hard to believe for ''Valkyrie'', if you are sending a battlestar on such a sensitive mission you want it at maximum performance. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 14:49, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Cylon detector problems ==

There's some inconsistency with the "Cylon Detector" that Doc Cottle used to determine that Bulldog was a human. First of all, if you look at the screen caps, [http://galacticabbs.com/index.php?act=module&module=gallery&cmd=si&img=56612|like this one], you can see that the screen says "-RESULTS NEGATIVE-" If he was testing the DNA against their military records, it should say "-RESULTS POSITIVE-" If it's negative, the DNA doesn't match. That, or it's supposed to be a Cylon Detector, and it's saying that he's not a Cylon. It seems like it could be a simple goof between dialogue and props.

However, going along with the DNA reasoning... that doesn't necessarily prove anything, does it? If they tested Boomer's DNA against the DNA they have on record for her, I assume it's going to match, since they probably took Cylon DNA initially. Who's to say that the same thing didn't happen to Bulldog? In that case, his DNA would match, but he'd be a Cylon. Seems like a poor determiner of race, that's all. I don't think that he's necessarily a Cylon, just that this is another "oops."

--It might prove something...if the Colonials have DNA records going all the way back to a person's birth. If they're matching against that kind of original record (heck, maybe they even have the parents' records, too), then that may well constitute proof. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:06, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Moved content ==

Folks, stuff like this needs to be removed (or reworded) on sight. Right now, this document reads a bit like it's arguing with itself. Before adding content that seems to contradict itself, please discuss it on the talk page -- that's what this feature is for.

Below, here's what I've removed thus far from the article that contradicts itself. Stuff like this, ''again'', must be hashed out on talk pages before entering the main article space. Thank you. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:52, 20 November 2006 (CST)

=== Removed content ===

*[[Dualla]] apparently served on the Valkyrie; she can be seen in the background standing behind Adama and Tigh in the flashback scenes.
**That person in the scene is most likley not Dualla; it's not easy to see because the flashback-scenes in the CIC have (deliberatly) not the best quality.

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-20T20:51:26Z

Nevfennas: /* Possible Discontinuity */

== Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) ==
I was reading the quote from Eick, "...Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies." and for some reason I felt that thie reminded me of Gorge Washington long before we was president or even commander-in-chief when, before the 7-Years-War, Washington was involved in a skirmish with the French over Fort Necessity, aka Pittsburgh (yes, we fought a battle for that city) that led to Washington signing a treaty stating, unbeknownst to him because he couldn't speak French and his interpreter sucked, that he committed attrocities against France in the name of the British Empire. This, according to many historians, led to the 7 Years War, known in America as the French and Indian War, that would decimate Northern Germany. I'm sure Washington at some level had to be aware of this error on his part and led him to remorse I imagine. Anyways, the story is different but I was wondering how many parallels there will be, if there will be, in this episode to Washington's conundrum. I wanted to ask a question on the article page but couldn't concise it enough for wiki standards. I may ask on the scifi bboard but input on this would be appreciated before I do. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 19:42, 3 August 2006 (PST)
:That's an interesting analogy, showing a fine attention to historical detail. I think the parallel has minor flaws, though, since Washington's conduct in that matter isn't generally considered morally wrong so much as foolish. [[Wikipedia:Gavrilo Princip|Gavrilo Princip]] might be worth considering as a parallel; he was the immediate but not ultimate cause of a devastating war, and he precipitated the conflict by attacking his fellow countryman, thinking it justified in contrast to the general consensus. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:28, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

:: It's unlikely that Adama's actions are quite the transgression that he believes it to be; after all, the [[cylon agent|Cylons had been violating the armistice line]] for about a half a year prior to Adama's, anyway.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 02:09, 18 November 2006 (CST)

::: I was wondering about the timeline as well. I think Adama says somthing like, the mission was a year before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack]], but the cylons had been planning the attack for two years. However, I think there is an error in the timeline. Adama also says he served with Boomer for two years, and I think he implied that it was on Galactica. Gaeta also says that he served with Adama for three years. It is possible that Gaeta was on the Valkyrie for a year, but I think the mission happened about two years before the attack, not just one. I will rewatch the episode, but do you have any ideas? [[User:Jrmurph|Jrmurph]] 12:21, 18 November 2006 (EST)
:::: I think there is an inconsistency in the story. It is not unexplainable, ie Gaeta and Boomer served with Adama on the Valkyrie, but it did seem like nobody other than Adama or Tigh recognized Bulldog so the timeline is a little esquew. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:01, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Another Battlestar? ==
There is a spoiler image showing Adm Adama and Col Tigh in the CIC of the Battlestar Valkerie. I zoomed in on Adama and saw he had his Admiral's pins on. Might this be a sign that they soon will find yet another Battlestar? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:24, 15 November 2006 (CST)
: It's a flashback scene. It may be more of a costuming error. Note that Tigh still has his eye in that promo shot. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 01:39, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:: Right. Two eyed Tigh. Darn. I was hoping they'd find another Battlestar cause I do miss the Pegasus. It was bigger, much cooler and the doors made this cool "beep" when they opened. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:50, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::You can visit [[Valkyrie]] as well. It's a spoiler until Friday but you can adjust it with some new data later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::It's true, I saw the Admiral pips as well, the flashback should have been Commander pips; as the Stealth ship incident occurred three years ago. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 22:56, 17 November 2006 (CST)
: The Valkerie looked to be a Mercury class Battlestar. This would make sense because the galactica class was an older ship and has been all but replaced with the newer bigger and more efficent Mercury class.--[[User:Mike|Mike]] 09:30, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It's definately not a Mercury, the only part really similar is the engine block. If anything, it looked most like a reimagining of the original series battlestar, down to the rectangular opening in the flightpod and the angular head. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:47, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::Inside it looks like a Mercury yes. That's a sign of its age. But outside, it's far smaller than a full-sized battlestar. Look at the gun battery on the top. There's only one and almost covers the width of the ship there. See the Valkyrie page for more details (where this discussion should take place), but I think it's basically a smaller battlestar meant for support duties. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:52, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:: Not disagreeing with your main point, but its quite possible that there were far more Battlestar classes than just the "Cylon War Type" and the Mecurcy class, given that the colonies built up a fleet of arround 120 Battlestars over about 50 years, particularly as the Viper apparently went through 5 different itterations over this time, although we are likely never going to see the intervening versions of either type --[[User:Useless|Useless]] 09:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Barry Kennedy as Admiral Corman ==

Hey all, I was just checking on Barry Kennedy's link, and it links to an IMDB page other than his profile page detailing his filmography, and etc. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 23:52, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:That's because some people keep forgeting the "nm" when entering imdb numbers and in that case the link default to title instead of actor --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:53, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The Stealth-Star==
hey i just noticed this but the name of the ship was the stealth star so someone(not me)should create it a page. Best Snorkel378
:Already done [[Stealth Star]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:41, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The scene with Baltar, Six and Three in bed==
it says on there that 3 is having a sexual realationship with baltar and six?
Cylons arent lesbos i think they were having a 3some {{unsigned|Snorkel378}}
:You are assuming that the Six we see is Caprica-Six and not Baltar's internal Six. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 20:49, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It would be an odd choice cinematically to have Three wake up from a dream and show us something from inside Baltar's head. {{unsigned|Wldkt1}}
:::Please remembe rto sign your posts on talk pages guys <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:05, 19 November 2006 (CST)
The fact that Baltar and Six are in a 'clutch' position makes it unlikely that it's his internal Six. Three would have noticed Baltar trying to hug thin air in his sleep. Baltar is also in the center of the bed, rather than on one side. In addition, Caprica seems to be aware of (and approves) Three's new interest in Baltar. Regarding the possibility of a relationship between Three and Six: that is only speculation, but just because we haven't seen a lesbian relationship between cylons doesn't mean one isn't possible.[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 22:18, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:It could be that Caprica-Six sees this as a way to weaken Baltar--after all, the formula for getting Baltar to give up secrets seems pretty clear: get in his bed, get in his head, so to speak. Remember that during the torture in previous episodes, he said to Three, "I love you with all of my heart." That's what started the relationship, so I think Three is interested in Baltar for whatever reason, not necessarily Six. Plus, on a more humorous note...I have to wonder if the Cylons have any sexual relations amongst themselves at all. This could be one deprived Cylon... [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:24, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==The Black Ops Mission==
Does anyone think that the entire mission was poorly concieved? First, the Colonials jump a Battlestar to very close range of the armistice line, which one would expect to attract attention in and of itself. Second, we see the ''Valkyrie'' track the S-Star after launch and over the line. This either means the Valkyrie tracked it directly on DRADIS, which indicates it's not much of a stealth ship and that the Cylons should be able to detect it as well, or the S-Star has some sort of transponder reporting its position, which is also something the Cylons should detect. Finally, as referenced in the main article, the S-Star maintains radio contact with the ''Valkyrie'' throughout the whole mission, again something the Cylons should be able to detect. Would the writers have really overlooked all this, or are we meant to conclude that the Admriality meant for the mission to have been discovered by the Cylons? --[[User:Cleophus|Cleophus]] 22:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:-The mission is quite similar to the United States' U2 overflights during the late 1950's and 60's. Certain similarities between the depicted incident and the [[:wikipedia:U-2 Crisis of 1960|incident involving Francis Gary Powers]] can be read. It also conjures up several dozen observation flights by aircraft such as specially outfitted C-130's flying perilously close to a boundary line — even going so far as to slip a wingtip across it to "call a bluff". Also, there's the incident involving the Chinese Gai-8 fighter and the US P-3 Orion.
:In the case of our Colonials here, the stealth craft is more than likely equipped with an "odd frequency" (either very low or very high), encrypted transponder that transmits on a specific wavelength, only for IFF purposes. If I recall correctly, F-117 Nighthawks can still use their radios when on ops (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I suspect that this mission was proposed in order to get a glimpse into ''any'' Cylon activity. The stealth craft would be dangled out as a tiny bit of bait – just enough to get a response. Its stealth characteristics would increase its ability to dash back across the Armistice Line untracked and unaffected, and then ''Valkyrie'' would be able to observe and record the arriving Cylons. If questions were raised ("What are you doing here?" ... "Good question, what are ''you'' doing here?" ... "We detected you over the Armistice Line." ... "Who, us? Noooo... We've been on our side this whole time, just trolling about, watching over our miners over there on that moon there. So why are you here again? You don't mind if we take some photos of you while you're here, do you?"), the Colonials would feign ignorance and innocence, but they'd at least have a response... something that the Cylons haven't even projected in thirty-plus years. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

==Folks in White Robes==
Aren't there five white-robed figures in Number Three's vision? It's pretty speculative, but maybe these are meant to represent the five missing Cylon models (maybe they've undergone some kind of transcendence, and are "with God now" or something). Maybe the article should note this (after all, the white-robes show up for the first time just a couple episodes after we first learn that there's definitely something different or mysterious about the five missing models), though I don't know the proper section for it. {{unsigned|Steve}}

:- I noticed that too, but was going to "acquire" the episode and re-watch that part, or watch it again on Monday to see... I _think_ there are five humanoid figures in white robes, kneeling or seated in that semi-circle when Three walks amongst them. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:Three's in the opera house on Kobol where Baltar's internal Six shows him Hera's cradle; I believe those are the same white drapes that can be seen on the opera house stage in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 11:38, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Reference to Raising Arizona? ==

I'm new here, so I didn't want to jump right into the thick of things by adding this to the main page before running it by other people...when Adama and Novacek are sitting down for the first time, Adama asks him something like "How did you escape, Bulldog?". Novacek rambles for a little bit (again, I don't remember exact words) but wraps up with "I felt the facility no longer had anything to offer me...". If I'm not mistaken, this is a reference to Raising Arizona--John Goodman's character says just about the exact same thing after he breaks out of prison. I can't seem to find the line on IMDB or Wikiquote, though... {{unsigned|MikeDanger}}
:Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:08, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:As far as I remember "Raising Arizona", the dialogue goes like this: 
:''- You busted outta jail?'' 
:''- No, ma'am. We released ourselves on our own recognizance.'' 
:''- What Evelle is tryin' to say is we felt the institution no longer had anything to offer us.'' -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:28, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== Insight into Cylon plan ==
If the Cylons know where the Colonials are, or at least know well enough to send Bulldog at them, it's common sense to ask, why don't they just attack? Well, maybe their goal isn't to destroy Galactica et al outright but something more complex. One thing that does seem consistent with their plan is their desire to kill Adama, perhaps because they want to send the fleet into disarray without him at the top. Examples: Leoben telling Roslin that Adama's a Cylon in Flesh and Blood, Boomer shooting Adama repeatedly in Kobol's Last Gleaming Pt. II. There may be more examples that I can't think of right now.

People have been crying out "plot hole!" with reckless abandon in light of Bulldog's ability to pinpoint Galactica's position, but if the Cylon plan really is as simple as ''kill all humans,'' as these detractors might claim, then much of the show falls apart. The reality is, we don't really know the Cylon plan, and at this point, there's really no reason to jump to the conclusion that the writers are just too lazy to think of one. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 18:22, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:The Cylons might know full well where the Colonials are but if they jumped in a couple of Basestars then the fleet would zip out of there pretty sharpish and might go somewhere where the Cylons dont know and they will have to find them all over again. IMO, their plan is a long game. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 19:17, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:IMHO, "Hero" is the weakest episode of the series yet. There's just too many logic errors for me to dismiss as part of the "suspension of disbelief" process. For instance, how does Bulldog have the time to learn how to pilot a Cylon raider, when Starbuck took hours to figure out how to operate the thing? Also, how would Bulldog be able to operate the FTL drive -- Kobol's Last Gleaming pretty much made it clear that the FTL drive needed an actual computer, given that the brain had to be ripped out in order for it to be piloted manually. But that's another not so fine mess.
: As for the Cylon plans, well, they're clearly compliated and seem to be changing since the attack. Whether or not this is by design has yet to be detrmined, though I sincerely doubt that the writer's have this thing all planned out a la ''Babylon 5''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:30, 19 November 2006 (CST)

::Yeah, I know what you're saying. I also doubt it's all planned out B5-style (hasn't Ron basically said something to that effect anyway, like how much they enjoy making it up as they go along?), but that doesn't mean it necessarily can't all add up in the end, and we should assume that they ''do'' know what they are doing until they are proven wrong.

::Also, a lot of people have been talking about how unrealistic it is for Bulldog to have learned how to operate the raider in such a short time. I'm not trying to start an arguement about this, but I don't actually remember them saying that he had only a short time to learn how to use the raider. Are you guys just assuming that he had to learn it all quickly based on the rushed nature of his escape? Is there a reason he couldn't have actually had a few hours to do it? I mean, if they let him escape, then he could have been in the basestar hangar for hours trying to work the controls while they watched (and snickered) from behind the glass. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 23:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:I agree that a lot of people have seemed predisposed to cry foul lately--I can understand how the scientific goofs in "A Measure of Salvation" could've set people on edge--but I do think it's possible that if the Cylons are operating under a religious motivation, that their plan does go beyond a simple "kill all humans" approach. They may see the need to exact specific steps of revenge/torture against humanity, perhaps a particular punishment for each perceived offense. That's just one possibility, but it could well be they have the death of a thousand cuts in mind for the remnants of humanity. I think Drumstick's probably on to something here. Or you know, if they wanted Bulldog to escape, they could have trained a Raider (which wasn't injured like Starbuck's) to understand and obey his commands or even set it up with an interface that a human could use. Until we see proof or disproof of all the different theories, I think it's too early to try to claim BsG has jumped the shark or anything similar. I also have to wonder if anybody here has writing experience with writing a full-length work. I am working on my first novel, and keeping total, perfect consistency is not easy and while I tend to get the big things right, I am still finding a lot of subtle things that need tweaking, and this despite my best efforts. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:17, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Possible Discontinuity ==
According to the episode, Adama and friends served on the Valkyrie a year before the attacks. This implies that Adama was only commander of the Galactica for a year before the miniseries. Yet on the Kara Thrace article, it states that Thrace "resigned from flight school as a instructor and transferred as an operational pilot aboard battlestar Galactica under the command of William Adama, where she served for some '''two years prior to the Cylon attack''' on the Twelve Colonies." They can't both be right.

Also, from the Tyrol article: "He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including Columbia, Atlantia, and Pegasus (Resistance). He has served under William Adama on Galactica for five years (Litmus)." If he served under Adama for 5 years, why didn't he mention the Valkyrie when he was being intimidated by Tigh in Resistance? This could be simply because Tigh would have known that.--[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 22:16, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:No, your first impulse is correct - it's quite certainly an error.
:'''Gaeta:''' And... may I take this opportunity to say that it's been both a pleasure and an honour to serve under you [Adama], these past three years. ([[Miniseries]])
:'''Adama:''' We [Thrace and I] talked about a lot of things. We've been aboard this ship for over two years, we know each other very well. ([[Act of Contrition]])
:'''Adama:''' She [Valerii] was more than that to us. She was more than that to me. She was a vital, living person... aboard my ship for almost two years. She couldn’t have been just a machine. Could you love a machine? ([[The Farm]])
:Also, note that the timeline in Adama's dossier (which seems to be accurate based on other data points) puts his transfer to ''Galactica'' at six years prior to the miniseries.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It is quite possible that this is not an error ''per se''. Adama and some of his command staff could easily have been assigned to the more modern Valkyrie from Galactica for the mission. It wouldn't make much sense to send "the bucket" on a stealth mission anyway. Notice Valkyrie seemed smaller and was probably more modernized, which would make it all the better for that type of mission. So Adama could easily have been in command of Galactica for several years prior, been offered command of Valkyrie as a reward, for career advancement or just for the mission... and have been pushed back to Galactica when the mission failed. Certainly the plan to decommission Galactica was in the works for some time, and they would not want one of their good commanders to retire with the ship... until after the mission where he failed. None of the characters would be expected to say "I served under Adama for some years, and some other guy for a couple of months, then Adama again." They would just say they served with him for X number of years. If we compare to the modern US Navy, this sort of thing is not all the uncommon.--[[User:Xealot|Xealot]] 10:22, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:::The dossier's progression from XO of ''Columbia'' to Commander of ''Valkyrie'' to Commander of ''Galactica'' seems to indicate that ''Valkyrie'' was his first battlestar command. Though I agree that the serve under "X years" would fly if they stayed under him. It's just the "this ship"'s that start biting them. (When they specify the ship instead of the command.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:53, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It's really embarassing in continuity. If they had put the entire affair a few years further into the past, it would have made much more sense not only in Adamas biography, but also in the overall plot. Boomer served on ''Galactica'' for two years and probably spend some additional time at flight school, so Adama must know the Cylon infiltration started long before the Stealth-Star incident. This should really get Adama to ask himself how long the attack had been planned, though he might convince himself that the Cylons put their infiltrators in place just as a precaution and his actions led to their decision to actually use them. A few years more time between the attack and the incident would put the estimated start of Cylon infiltration (which actually could be anywhere between 2 and 20 years before the attack) around the same time, giving Adama a far more powerful reason to believe that he started it right there. I would like to think that putting the incident one year before attack was just an accident, but then it would probably become even more difficult to explain how Bulldog survived that long.

::Another point that's problematic: did ''Valkyrie'' have an integrated computer-network? Up to this episode all information we had suggested that all battlestars save ''Galactica'' had them and that it was Adamas position of ''no network on my ship'' that prevented an upgrade.

::*If ''Valkyrie'' had a network Adamas politics of ''it's all hand on here'' are somewhat harder to believe. Up to now it looked like the position of war-veteran who opposed networks on principle, this is harder to believe if he already commanded a ship with such a network.

::*If there was no network on ''Valkyrie'', then why wasn't there one? It appears extremely unlikely that the networks were all installed in the time between the incident and the attack, though the decision cannot have been made to long before Adama took command of ''Galactica'', because the previous commander would probably have had it installed. And given that it was probably a major decision to put networks on battlestars once more it's hard to believe that the Admirality would allow commanders to pull the plug on it as they see fit. I can imagine that Adamas opposition was tolerated on ''Galactica'', because it was an old battlestar nearing it's decommissioning that may have been especially hard to upgrade (regardless of Gaetas patchwork in [[Scattered]]). They could have simply decided that it was not worth the effort to force Adama to accept the upgrade. But that would be hard to believe for ''Valkyrie'', if you are sending a battlestar on such a sensitive mission you want it at maximum performance. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 14:49, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Cylon detector problems ==

There's some inconsistency with the "Cylon Detector" that Doc Cottle used to determine that Bulldog was a human. First of all, if you look at the screen caps, [http://galacticabbs.com/index.php?act=module&module=gallery&cmd=si&img=56612|like this one], you can see that the screen says "-RESULTS NEGATIVE-" If he was testing the DNA against their military records, it should say "-RESULTS POSITIVE-" If it's negative, the DNA doesn't match. That, or it's supposed to be a Cylon Detector, and it's saying that he's not a Cylon. It seems like it could be a simple goof between dialogue and props.

However, going along with the DNA reasoning... that doesn't necessarily prove anything, does it? If they tested Boomer's DNA against the DNA they have on record for her, I assume it's going to match, since they probably took Cylon DNA initially. Who's to say that the same thing didn't happen to Bulldog? In that case, his DNA would match, but he'd be a Cylon. Seems like a poor determiner of race, that's all. I don't think that he's necessarily a Cylon, just that this is another "oops."

--It might prove something...if the Colonials have DNA records going all the way back to a person's birth. If they're matching against that kind of original record (heck, maybe they even have the parents' records, too), then that may well constitute proof. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:06, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Moved content ==

Folks, stuff like this needs to be removed (or reworded) on sight. Right now, this document reads a bit like it's arguing with itself. Before adding content that seems to contradict itself, please discuss it on the talk page -- that's what this feature is for.

Below, here's what I've removed thus far from the article that contradicts itself. Stuff like this, ''again'', must be hashed out on talk pages before entering the main article space. Thank you. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:52, 20 November 2006 (CST)

=== Removed content ===

*[[Dualla]] apparently served on the Valkyrie; she can be seen in the background standing behind Adama and Tigh in the flashback scenes.
**That person in the scene is most likley not Dualla; it's not easy to see because the flashback-scenes in the CIC have (deliberatly) not the best quality.

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-20T20:49:21Z

Nevfennas: /* Possible Discontinuity */

== Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) ==
I was reading the quote from Eick, "...Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies." and for some reason I felt that thie reminded me of Gorge Washington long before we was president or even commander-in-chief when, before the 7-Years-War, Washington was involved in a skirmish with the French over Fort Necessity, aka Pittsburgh (yes, we fought a battle for that city) that led to Washington signing a treaty stating, unbeknownst to him because he couldn't speak French and his interpreter sucked, that he committed attrocities against France in the name of the British Empire. This, according to many historians, led to the 7 Years War, known in America as the French and Indian War, that would decimate Northern Germany. I'm sure Washington at some level had to be aware of this error on his part and led him to remorse I imagine. Anyways, the story is different but I was wondering how many parallels there will be, if there will be, in this episode to Washington's conundrum. I wanted to ask a question on the article page but couldn't concise it enough for wiki standards. I may ask on the scifi bboard but input on this would be appreciated before I do. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 19:42, 3 August 2006 (PST)
:That's an interesting analogy, showing a fine attention to historical detail. I think the parallel has minor flaws, though, since Washington's conduct in that matter isn't generally considered morally wrong so much as foolish. [[Wikipedia:Gavrilo Princip|Gavrilo Princip]] might be worth considering as a parallel; he was the immediate but not ultimate cause of a devastating war, and he precipitated the conflict by attacking his fellow countryman, thinking it justified in contrast to the general consensus. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:28, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

:: It's unlikely that Adama's actions are quite the transgression that he believes it to be; after all, the [[cylon agent|Cylons had been violating the armistice line]] for about a half a year prior to Adama's, anyway.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 02:09, 18 November 2006 (CST)

::: I was wondering about the timeline as well. I think Adama says somthing like, the mission was a year before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack]], but the cylons had been planning the attack for two years. However, I think there is an error in the timeline. Adama also says he served with Boomer for two years, and I think he implied that it was on Galactica. Gaeta also says that he served with Adama for three years. It is possible that Gaeta was on the Valkyrie for a year, but I think the mission happened about two years before the attack, not just one. I will rewatch the episode, but do you have any ideas? [[User:Jrmurph|Jrmurph]] 12:21, 18 November 2006 (EST)
:::: I think there is an inconsistency in the story. It is not unexplainable, ie Gaeta and Boomer served with Adama on the Valkyrie, but it did seem like nobody other than Adama or Tigh recognized Bulldog so the timeline is a little esquew. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:01, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Another Battlestar? ==
There is a spoiler image showing Adm Adama and Col Tigh in the CIC of the Battlestar Valkerie. I zoomed in on Adama and saw he had his Admiral's pins on. Might this be a sign that they soon will find yet another Battlestar? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:24, 15 November 2006 (CST)
: It's a flashback scene. It may be more of a costuming error. Note that Tigh still has his eye in that promo shot. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 01:39, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:: Right. Two eyed Tigh. Darn. I was hoping they'd find another Battlestar cause I do miss the Pegasus. It was bigger, much cooler and the doors made this cool "beep" when they opened. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:50, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::You can visit [[Valkyrie]] as well. It's a spoiler until Friday but you can adjust it with some new data later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::It's true, I saw the Admiral pips as well, the flashback should have been Commander pips; as the Stealth ship incident occurred three years ago. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 22:56, 17 November 2006 (CST)
: The Valkerie looked to be a Mercury class Battlestar. This would make sense because the galactica class was an older ship and has been all but replaced with the newer bigger and more efficent Mercury class.--[[User:Mike|Mike]] 09:30, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It's definately not a Mercury, the only part really similar is the engine block. If anything, it looked most like a reimagining of the original series battlestar, down to the rectangular opening in the flightpod and the angular head. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:47, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::Inside it looks like a Mercury yes. That's a sign of its age. But outside, it's far smaller than a full-sized battlestar. Look at the gun battery on the top. There's only one and almost covers the width of the ship there. See the Valkyrie page for more details (where this discussion should take place), but I think it's basically a smaller battlestar meant for support duties. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:52, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:: Not disagreeing with your main point, but its quite possible that there were far more Battlestar classes than just the "Cylon War Type" and the Mecurcy class, given that the colonies built up a fleet of arround 120 Battlestars over about 50 years, particularly as the Viper apparently went through 5 different itterations over this time, although we are likely never going to see the intervening versions of either type --[[User:Useless|Useless]] 09:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Barry Kennedy as Admiral Corman ==

Hey all, I was just checking on Barry Kennedy's link, and it links to an IMDB page other than his profile page detailing his filmography, and etc. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 23:52, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:That's because some people keep forgeting the "nm" when entering imdb numbers and in that case the link default to title instead of actor --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:53, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The Stealth-Star==
hey i just noticed this but the name of the ship was the stealth star so someone(not me)should create it a page. Best Snorkel378
:Already done [[Stealth Star]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:41, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The scene with Baltar, Six and Three in bed==
it says on there that 3 is having a sexual realationship with baltar and six?
Cylons arent lesbos i think they were having a 3some {{unsigned|Snorkel378}}
:You are assuming that the Six we see is Caprica-Six and not Baltar's internal Six. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 20:49, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It would be an odd choice cinematically to have Three wake up from a dream and show us something from inside Baltar's head. {{unsigned|Wldkt1}}
:::Please remembe rto sign your posts on talk pages guys <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:05, 19 November 2006 (CST)
The fact that Baltar and Six are in a 'clutch' position makes it unlikely that it's his internal Six. Three would have noticed Baltar trying to hug thin air in his sleep. Baltar is also in the center of the bed, rather than on one side. In addition, Caprica seems to be aware of (and approves) Three's new interest in Baltar. Regarding the possibility of a relationship between Three and Six: that is only speculation, but just because we haven't seen a lesbian relationship between cylons doesn't mean one isn't possible.[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 22:18, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:It could be that Caprica-Six sees this as a way to weaken Baltar--after all, the formula for getting Baltar to give up secrets seems pretty clear: get in his bed, get in his head, so to speak. Remember that during the torture in previous episodes, he said to Three, "I love you with all of my heart." That's what started the relationship, so I think Three is interested in Baltar for whatever reason, not necessarily Six. Plus, on a more humorous note...I have to wonder if the Cylons have any sexual relations amongst themselves at all. This could be one deprived Cylon... [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:24, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==The Black Ops Mission==
Does anyone think that the entire mission was poorly concieved? First, the Colonials jump a Battlestar to very close range of the armistice line, which one would expect to attract attention in and of itself. Second, we see the ''Valkyrie'' track the S-Star after launch and over the line. This either means the Valkyrie tracked it directly on DRADIS, which indicates it's not much of a stealth ship and that the Cylons should be able to detect it as well, or the S-Star has some sort of transponder reporting its position, which is also something the Cylons should detect. Finally, as referenced in the main article, the S-Star maintains radio contact with the ''Valkyrie'' throughout the whole mission, again something the Cylons should be able to detect. Would the writers have really overlooked all this, or are we meant to conclude that the Admriality meant for the mission to have been discovered by the Cylons? --[[User:Cleophus|Cleophus]] 22:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:-The mission is quite similar to the United States' U2 overflights during the late 1950's and 60's. Certain similarities between the depicted incident and the [[:wikipedia:U-2 Crisis of 1960|incident involving Francis Gary Powers]] can be read. It also conjures up several dozen observation flights by aircraft such as specially outfitted C-130's flying perilously close to a boundary line — even going so far as to slip a wingtip across it to "call a bluff". Also, there's the incident involving the Chinese Gai-8 fighter and the US P-3 Orion.
:In the case of our Colonials here, the stealth craft is more than likely equipped with an "odd frequency" (either very low or very high), encrypted transponder that transmits on a specific wavelength, only for IFF purposes. If I recall correctly, F-117 Nighthawks can still use their radios when on ops (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I suspect that this mission was proposed in order to get a glimpse into ''any'' Cylon activity. The stealth craft would be dangled out as a tiny bit of bait – just enough to get a response. Its stealth characteristics would increase its ability to dash back across the Armistice Line untracked and unaffected, and then ''Valkyrie'' would be able to observe and record the arriving Cylons. If questions were raised ("What are you doing here?" ... "Good question, what are ''you'' doing here?" ... "We detected you over the Armistice Line." ... "Who, us? Noooo... We've been on our side this whole time, just trolling about, watching over our miners over there on that moon there. So why are you here again? You don't mind if we take some photos of you while you're here, do you?"), the Colonials would feign ignorance and innocence, but they'd at least have a response... something that the Cylons haven't even projected in thirty-plus years. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

==Folks in White Robes==
Aren't there five white-robed figures in Number Three's vision? It's pretty speculative, but maybe these are meant to represent the five missing Cylon models (maybe they've undergone some kind of transcendence, and are "with God now" or something). Maybe the article should note this (after all, the white-robes show up for the first time just a couple episodes after we first learn that there's definitely something different or mysterious about the five missing models), though I don't know the proper section for it. {{unsigned|Steve}}

:- I noticed that too, but was going to "acquire" the episode and re-watch that part, or watch it again on Monday to see... I _think_ there are five humanoid figures in white robes, kneeling or seated in that semi-circle when Three walks amongst them. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:Three's in the opera house on Kobol where Baltar's internal Six shows him Hera's cradle; I believe those are the same white drapes that can be seen on the opera house stage in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 11:38, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Reference to Raising Arizona? ==

I'm new here, so I didn't want to jump right into the thick of things by adding this to the main page before running it by other people...when Adama and Novacek are sitting down for the first time, Adama asks him something like "How did you escape, Bulldog?". Novacek rambles for a little bit (again, I don't remember exact words) but wraps up with "I felt the facility no longer had anything to offer me...". If I'm not mistaken, this is a reference to Raising Arizona--John Goodman's character says just about the exact same thing after he breaks out of prison. I can't seem to find the line on IMDB or Wikiquote, though... {{unsigned|MikeDanger}}
:Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:08, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:As far as I remember "Raising Arizona", the dialogue goes like this: 
:''- You busted outta jail?'' 
:''- No, ma'am. We released ourselves on our own recognizance.'' 
:''- What Evelle is tryin' to say is we felt the institution no longer had anything to offer us.'' -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:28, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== Insight into Cylon plan ==
If the Cylons know where the Colonials are, or at least know well enough to send Bulldog at them, it's common sense to ask, why don't they just attack? Well, maybe their goal isn't to destroy Galactica et al outright but something more complex. One thing that does seem consistent with their plan is their desire to kill Adama, perhaps because they want to send the fleet into disarray without him at the top. Examples: Leoben telling Roslin that Adama's a Cylon in Flesh and Blood, Boomer shooting Adama repeatedly in Kobol's Last Gleaming Pt. II. There may be more examples that I can't think of right now.

People have been crying out "plot hole!" with reckless abandon in light of Bulldog's ability to pinpoint Galactica's position, but if the Cylon plan really is as simple as ''kill all humans,'' as these detractors might claim, then much of the show falls apart. The reality is, we don't really know the Cylon plan, and at this point, there's really no reason to jump to the conclusion that the writers are just too lazy to think of one. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 18:22, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:The Cylons might know full well where the Colonials are but if they jumped in a couple of Basestars then the fleet would zip out of there pretty sharpish and might go somewhere where the Cylons dont know and they will have to find them all over again. IMO, their plan is a long game. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 19:17, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:IMHO, "Hero" is the weakest episode of the series yet. There's just too many logic errors for me to dismiss as part of the "suspension of disbelief" process. For instance, how does Bulldog have the time to learn how to pilot a Cylon raider, when Starbuck took hours to figure out how to operate the thing? Also, how would Bulldog be able to operate the FTL drive -- Kobol's Last Gleaming pretty much made it clear that the FTL drive needed an actual computer, given that the brain had to be ripped out in order for it to be piloted manually. But that's another not so fine mess.
: As for the Cylon plans, well, they're clearly compliated and seem to be changing since the attack. Whether or not this is by design has yet to be detrmined, though I sincerely doubt that the writer's have this thing all planned out a la ''Babylon 5''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:30, 19 November 2006 (CST)

::Yeah, I know what you're saying. I also doubt it's all planned out B5-style (hasn't Ron basically said something to that effect anyway, like how much they enjoy making it up as they go along?), but that doesn't mean it necessarily can't all add up in the end, and we should assume that they ''do'' know what they are doing until they are proven wrong.

::Also, a lot of people have been talking about how unrealistic it is for Bulldog to have learned how to operate the raider in such a short time. I'm not trying to start an arguement about this, but I don't actually remember them saying that he had only a short time to learn how to use the raider. Are you guys just assuming that he had to learn it all quickly based on the rushed nature of his escape? Is there a reason he couldn't have actually had a few hours to do it? I mean, if they let him escape, then he could have been in the basestar hangar for hours trying to work the controls while they watched (and snickered) from behind the glass. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 23:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:I agree that a lot of people have seemed predisposed to cry foul lately--I can understand how the scientific goofs in "A Measure of Salvation" could've set people on edge--but I do think it's possible that if the Cylons are operating under a religious motivation, that their plan does go beyond a simple "kill all humans" approach. They may see the need to exact specific steps of revenge/torture against humanity, perhaps a particular punishment for each perceived offense. That's just one possibility, but it could well be they have the death of a thousand cuts in mind for the remnants of humanity. I think Drumstick's probably on to something here. Or you know, if they wanted Bulldog to escape, they could have trained a Raider (which wasn't injured like Starbuck's) to understand and obey his commands or even set it up with an interface that a human could use. Until we see proof or disproof of all the different theories, I think it's too early to try to claim BsG has jumped the shark or anything similar. I also have to wonder if anybody here has writing experience with writing a full-length work. I am working on my first novel, and keeping total, perfect consistency is not easy and while I tend to get the big things right, I am still finding a lot of subtle things that need tweaking, and this despite my best efforts. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:17, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Possible Discontinuity ==
According to the episode, Adama and friends served on the Valkyrie a year before the attacks. This implies that Adama was only commander of the Galactica for a year before the miniseries. Yet on the Kara Thrace article, it states that Thrace "resigned from flight school as a instructor and transferred as an operational pilot aboard battlestar Galactica under the command of William Adama, where she served for some '''two years prior to the Cylon attack''' on the Twelve Colonies." They can't both be right.

Also, from the Tyrol article: "He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including Columbia, Atlantia, and Pegasus (Resistance). He has served under William Adama on Galactica for five years (Litmus)." If he served under Adama for 5 years, why didn't he mention the Valkyrie when he was being intimidated by Tigh in Resistance? This could be simply because Tigh would have known that.--[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 22:16, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:No, your first impulse is correct - it's quite certainly an error.
:'''Gaeta:''' And... may I take this opportunity to say that it's been both a pleasure and an honour to serve under you [Adama], these past three years. ([[Miniseries]])
:'''Adama:''' We [Thrace and I] talked about a lot of things. We've been aboard this ship for over two years, we know each other very well. ([[Act of Contrition]])
:'''Adama:''' She [Valerii] was more than that to us. She was more than that to me. She was a vital, living person... aboard my ship for almost two years. She couldn’t have been just a machine. Could you love a machine? ([[The Farm]])
:Also, note that the timeline in Adama's dossier (which seems to be accurate based on other data points) puts his transfer to ''Galactica'' at six years prior to the miniseries.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It is quite possible that this is not an error ''per se''. Adama and some of his command staff could easily have been assigned to the more modern Valkyrie from Galactica for the mission. It wouldn't make much sense to send "the bucket" on a stealth mission anyway. Notice Valkyrie seemed smaller and was probably more modernized, which would make it all the better for that type of mission. So Adama could easily have been in command of Galactica for several years prior, been offered command of Valkyrie as a reward, for career advancement or just for the mission... and have been pushed back to Galactica when the mission failed. Certainly the plan to decommission Galactica was in the works for some time, and they would not want one of their good commanders to retire with the ship... until after the mission where he failed. None of the characters would be expected to say "I served under Adama for some years, and some other guy for a couple of months, then Adama again." They would just say they served with him for X number of years. If we compare to the modern US Navy, this sort of thing is not all the uncommon.--[[User:Xealot|Xealot]] 10:22, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:::The dossier's progression from XO of ''Columbia'' to Commander of ''Valkyrie'' to Commander of ''Galactica'' seems to indicate that ''Valkyrie'' was his first battlestar command. Though I agree that the serve under "X years" would fly if they stayed under him. It's just the "this ship"'s that start biting them. (When they specify the ship instead of the command.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:53, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It's really embarassing in continuity. If they had put the entire affair a few years further into the past, it would have made much more sense not only in Adamas biography, but also in the overall plot. Boomer served on ''Galactica'' for two year and probably spend some additional time at flight school, so Adama must know the Cylon infiltration started long before the Stealth-Star incident. This should really get Adama to ask himself how long the attack had been planned, though he might convince himself that the Cylons put their infiltrators in place just as a precaution and his actions led to their decision to actually use it. A few years more time between the attack and the incident would put the estimated start of Cylon infiltration (which actually could be anywhere between 2 and 20 years before the attack) around the same time, giving Adama a far more powerful reason to believe that it all started right there. I would like to think that putting the incident one year before attack was just an accident, but then it would probably become even more difficult to explain how Bulldog survived that long.

::Another point that's problematic: did ''Valkyrie'' have an integrated computer-network? Up to this episode all information we had suggested that all battlestars save ''Galactica'' had them and that it was Adamas position of ''no network on my ship'' that prevented an upgrade.

::*If ''Valkyrie'' had a network Adamas politics of ''it's all hand on here'' are somewhat harder to believe. Up to now it looked like the position of war-veteran who opposed networks on principle, this is harder to believe if he already commanded a ship with such a network.

::*If there was no network on ''Valkyrie'', then why wasn't there one? It appears extremely unlikely that the networks were all installed in the time between the incident and the attack, though the decision cannot have been made to long before Adama took command of ''Galactica'', because the previous commander would probably have had it installed. And given that it was probably a major decision to put networks on battlestars once more it's hard to believe that the Admirality would allow commanders to pull the plug on it as they see fit. I can imagine that Adamas opposition was tolerated on ''Galactica'', because it was an old battlestar nearing it's decommissioning that may have been especially hard to upgrade (regardless of Gaetas patchwork in [[Scattered]]). They could have simply decided that it was not worth the effort to force Adama to accept the upgrade. But that would be hard to believe for ''Valkyrie'', if you are sending a battlestar on such a sensitive mission you want it at maximum performance. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 14:49, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Cylon detector problems ==

There's some inconsistency with the "Cylon Detector" that Doc Cottle used to determine that Bulldog was a human. First of all, if you look at the screen caps, [http://galacticabbs.com/index.php?act=module&module=gallery&cmd=si&img=56612|like this one], you can see that the screen says "-RESULTS NEGATIVE-" If he was testing the DNA against their military records, it should say "-RESULTS POSITIVE-" If it's negative, the DNA doesn't match. That, or it's supposed to be a Cylon Detector, and it's saying that he's not a Cylon. It seems like it could be a simple goof between dialogue and props.

However, going along with the DNA reasoning... that doesn't necessarily prove anything, does it? If they tested Boomer's DNA against the DNA they have on record for her, I assume it's going to match, since they probably took Cylon DNA initially. Who's to say that the same thing didn't happen to Bulldog? In that case, his DNA would match, but he'd be a Cylon. Seems like a poor determiner of race, that's all. I don't think that he's necessarily a Cylon, just that this is another "oops."

--It might prove something...if the Colonials have DNA records going all the way back to a person's birth. If they're matching against that kind of original record (heck, maybe they even have the parents' records, too), then that may well constitute proof. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:06, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Moved content ==

Folks, stuff like this needs to be removed (or reworded) on sight. Right now, this document reads a bit like it's arguing with itself. Before adding content that seems to contradict itself, please discuss it on the talk page -- that's what this feature is for.

Below, here's what I've removed thus far from the article that contradicts itself. Stuff like this, ''again'', must be hashed out on talk pages before entering the main article space. Thank you. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:52, 20 November 2006 (CST)

=== Removed content ===

*[[Dualla]] apparently served on the Valkyrie; she can be seen in the background standing behind Adama and Tigh in the flashback scenes.
**That person in the scene is most likley not Dualla; it's not easy to see because the flashback-scenes in the CIC have (deliberatly) not the best quality.

Hero

2006-11-19T14:47:06Z

Nevfennas: /* Notes */

{{Episode Data
| title= Hero
| image= Season 3 - Promo - Hero -Adama Tigh and Novacek.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 8
| guests= [[Carl Lumbly]]
| writer= [[David Eick]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-17
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,421
| prev= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
| next= [[Unfinished Business]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A [[Bulldog|figure]] from [[William Adama|Adama]]'s past returns to haunt him. His return raises questions about why the Cylons launched their initial attack against the [[Twelve Colonies]]. <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/hero/episode/748771/summary.html |title=TV.com Episode Summary}}</ref>''
== Summary ==

=== On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' ===

* ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' detects three [[Cylon Raider|Raiders]]. Much to the surpise of the [[CIC]] crew, two Raiders are pursuing a third. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] are dispatched. After destroying the pursuing Raiders, they go after the third.
* In CIC, Adama orders Kat and Starbuck to escort the Raider to ''Galactica'', after hearing [[Bulldog]]'s communication squaks.
* Kat and Starbuck escort the Raider in. In the hangar bay, Adama and the party that meets the Raider, surprised at the fact that a human appears to have piloted the craft. A visibly weak Bulldog salutes Adama; Adama returns the salute.
* Over a meal (noodles eaten with chopsticks) Adama asks Bulldog how he escaped. He relates a story of plague on the [[Basestar]] and escaping after killing a Number 3 with a blow to the nose delivered through the cell bars.
* Bulldog is debriefed by the president with Adama present, where they tell a (decidedly shaky) story of a mining facility too close to the Armistice Line. When it is concluded she asks Adama if he is going to tell her what really happened. He replies that it is his mess and that he will deal it. After she leaves he kicks over a table in frustration.
* Bulldog goes to see Saul Tigh in his quarters shortly after Adama talks to him. Saul informs Bulldog that he was shot down by the ''Valkyrie'' to get rid of evidence.
*At the same time, Adama confesses the mission's actual specifics to Lee, and his belief that he provoked the Cylon attacks on the colonies. Aghast at first, Lee then tries to console his father, blaming the admirals in command and saying that he was "only one man." Adama responds, "It only takes one."
* Starbuck reviews the gun film from the fight with the Cylon Raiders and realizes that they were deliberately missing their target, letting Bulldog get away. She goes to Saul Tigh with this information, who deduces that Bulldog was sent there by the Cylons to kill the admiral.
* Tigh finds Bulldog in the process of killing Adama and stops him. Bulldog has flashbacks to being let out of his cell.
* Later, Adama presents his resignation to Roslin. Bemused, she refuses to accept it, and points out that the Admiralty may have been trying to provoke a war, and that he cannot shoulder the entire responsiblity for the holocaust on his shoulders. She then tells him that his penance will be to accept a Medal of Distinction for his long years of service, and to be a hero.
* After sending Bulldog off to a berthing on another ship with a uniform, Tigh and Adama sit down for a drink in the admiral's quarters.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*In a dream, [[Three]] is trying to avoid marines on ''[[Galactica]]''. The marines corner her against a hatch labelled End of Line. The marines raise their weapons and Three tells them to shoot.
*As the shots go off, Three wakes up in bed with [[Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]]. She has apparently been having a sexual relationship with Baltar and possibly Six as well.
*In the Cylon control room Caprica-Six questions Three about her bad dreams. Caprica asks if the dreams are about Baltar and Three tells her that it's nothing like that, but does not elaborate.
*Three gives a centurion orders to shoot her, and then delete any information regarding the incident. The centurion obeys and shoots her in the head. In the moments before she is downloaded, she experiences images from her dream mixed in with memories from New Caprica and other more cryptic scenes.
*Three awakes in a rebirthing chamber where a worried Caprica-Six tries to help her recover. Three tells her, "There's something beautiful, miraculous between life and death."

== Questions ==
*Were the Admiralty's fears valid, or was the Cylon force that destroyed the Colonies built up just since that mission?
*Did humans taken prisoner well before the Fall of the Twelve Colonies provide the original genetic pool for the humanoid Cylons?
*Did Bulldog know of or see other human prisoners during his three years of captivity?
*How was Bulldog directed to the precise location of the fleet?
*What class of battlestar does ''[[Valkyrie]]'' belong to?
*Why would a "Stealth Ship" in enemy territory break radio silence?
*Was ''[[Valkyrie]]''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s mission the only one the admiralty undertook or were there others?
*Was [[Laura Roslin]] right in speculating that the admiralty might have sent ''[[Valkyrie]]'' in order to provoke a war?
*Why did the Cylons have one craft jump in and fire on the stealth star, then jump out? Then send in two more ships to finish the attack? Could the first ship have really been a Colonial ship sent by the admiralty to expose the stealth star?
*Who were the white-robed figures [[Three]] saw in her vision before downloading?
*Were the Cylons on the baseship where Bulldog was held really sick?
*Does Bulldog have information regarding the other humanoid Cylon models that nothing is known of?
*How did Baltar's status change from torturee in "[[A Measure of Salvation]]" to an apparent sexual relationship with [[Caprica Six]] and [[Number Three]]?
* Was Adama's whole command staff transferred from the ''[[Valkyrie]] ''to ''[[Galactica]]'' after the failure of the recon mission?
** Geata's statement about serving with Adama for the prior three years during the miniseries.

== Analysis ==
*Adama and Roslin know each other well enough by now to tell when the other is lying, or is not fooled by a lie, even when others around can't.
*At the end of the episode, [[Saul Tigh]] appears to be attempting to try and deal with his guilt over his wife, but he does not seem to want his job as XO back, at least not any time soon.
*Adama's feelings of guilt over his actions during ''[[Valkyrie]]'s'' mission seem to shed new light on the motivation for his speech at ''[[Galactica]]'s'' decomissioning ceremony at the begining of the series. Also, they explain his near-monomania with safeguarding and/or rescuing those under his command or protection.
*The Cylons seem to have been able to detect and destroy The Stealth-Star that had only entered two kilometers into their space. This seems suspicious given the fact that they were unable to detect the [[Blackbird]], presumably a far less sophisticated design. Either the Cylons had more advanced detection equipment on the [[Armistice Line]], or they had advance knowledge of Bulldog's mission.
**It is only speculation that the Blackbird's stealth capabilities were less effective than those of the Stealth-Star. The reason that the Blackbird went undetected by the Cylons is that its hull, at Helo's suggestion, was made of carbon composite. There is no way of knowing whether or not this was true of the Stealth-Star.
***In addition, the Cylons near the [[Armistice Line]] would have known to look for stealth ships, as they probably suspected that the Colonial fleet would try to gain intel on Cylon military status. After the destruction of the colonies, it is unlikely that the Cylons believed that the Colonials were still in possession of any kind of stealth fighter and would not attempt to detect one.
***The fact that the Cylons expected penetration by stealth ships suggests that they may have done their share of Armistice Line violation.
*Bulldog's story is even less believable given the fact that it took Kara Thrace several hours to gut a [[Raider]] and learn how to fly it. Granted, the Raider Kara captured was damaged, but it would still have taken Bulldog some time to adapt the raider for his own use.
**As the episode implies that Bulldog was deliberately released by the Cylons in an effort to direct his anger towards Adama, it is possible that the Cylons allowed Bulldog to gain a working knowledge of the raider.
*Bulldog probably could have stolen a Heavy Raider, which unlike the light versions seems to have a crew compartment and perhaps piloting controls, but then the production crew couldn't have re-used the captured-Raider prop from "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]" on the flight deck set.
*That Kara Thrace goes to Tigh with her findings is an acknowledgment of their shared semi-pariah status and the connection that was shown in "[[Collaborators]]" for the first time
*The last two scenes of "Hero" appear to have been edited to ensure that the final scene was with Adama and Tigh. Right after the celebration scene, Adama is seen giving Bulldog a new uniform, but Adama is wearing his everyday uniform. In the final scene with Tigh, Adama is wearing his dress grays from the celebration. It appears at the very least, the two scenes were in reverse order, meaning the episode originally ended with Adama giving Bulldog his new uniform.
*The architecture of the place Number Three visits between life and death is similar if not identical to that of the operahouse on Kobol which Baltar and his internal Six entered in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]".
*Three's flashbacks after being shot indicate her to be the same individual who was killed on Caprica by [[Caprica-Six]] in "[[Downloaded]]" and who found Hera in "[[Exodus, Part II]]". It is of course possible that some of these recollections are the result of memory-sharing rather than direct experience.
**If she is the same Three that died on Caprica, that leaves the question how it can be that she didn't get the Opera House experience on her first death, even though she was stuck in limbo for thirty-six hours because of the massive casualties at the cafe in [[Downloaded]]. It is plausible that this Three wanted to die because she'd never experienced death before.
***It is also plausible that God is only just now trying to tell her something.
*There's at least one other doctor of some kind in the fleet, because Cottle instructs Bulldog to report to him.
**Given that Bulldog's physical condition is excellent, this doctor may be a psychiatrist.
*The Cylons appear to know the current location of the fleet.
**They're probably waiting for a Cylon agent to report Adama's death so they can attack the fleet during Adama's funeral.

== Notes ==
*In Adama's flashback, the admirals are wearing their decorations on their day uniforms. This contrasts with most Colonial Fleet officers shown thus far, who only wear their decorations on their dress uniform sash.

*Both Baltar and Sharon Agathon appear in this episode, but neither one has any lines.

*In Number Three's dream, the door at which is she is shot by the marines is labeled "End of Line". As well as being a metaphor for death, this is a statement repeated often by the Cylon [[Hybrid]].

*This episode shares some plot elements with the TNG Episode "The Defector" - written by RDM. Notably, beginning with a dramatic chase delivering a dubious ally into friendly hands that is later shown to be staged. Additionally, both episodes feature plots revolving around a contested border.
** However, this episode was written by [[David Eick]].

*[[Dualla]] apparently served on the Valkyrie; she can be seen in the background standing behind Adama and Tigh in the flashback scenes.
**That person in the scene is most likley not Dualla, it's not easy to see because the flashback-scenes in the CIC have (deliberatly) not the best quality.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
*A video blog gives an insight to this episode during filming. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=videoBlog&vid=34824|title=Introducing Bulldog|date=2006-10-11|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=VID|language=}}</ref>

== Guest Stars ==
*[[imdb:nm0447921|Barry Kennedy]] as Admiral [[Corman]]
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
*[[Carl Lumbly]] as Lt. [[Daniel Novacek]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Doctor [[Cottle]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:A Measure of Salvation/Archive 1

2006-11-13T20:57:15Z

Nevfennas: /* Explanations */

Talk:A Measure of Salvation/Archive 1

2006-11-12T17:32:36Z

Nevfennas:

Talk:A Measure of Salvation/Archive 1

2006-11-12T17:24:24Z

Nevfennas:

Felix Gaeta

2006-05-07T18:27:06Z

Nevfennas: /* The Presidental Election and New Caprica */ he got elected on that issue

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Kobols_Last_Gleaming_pt2-Gaeta.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony=
|birthname= Felix Gaeta
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role=Aide to President [[Gaius Baltar]], former [[Tactical Officer]], Senior Officer of the Watch, [[CIC]], [[Battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]''
|rank= Lieutenant
|actor=[[Alessandro Juliani]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

Lieutenant '''Felix Gaeta''' {{IPA|ˈgeɪ.tə}} is a young, capable officer in the Colonial military. For the three years prior to the [[Cylon attack]] on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], he has served as [[William Adama]]'s Senior Officer of the Watch aboard battlestar ''[[Galactica]]''.

Prior to the attack, he was studying biogenetics and planned to get a degree through the military extension program ([[Water]]).

He exhibits a strong attention to detail and is highly efficient. These tendencies and his overall ability have led William Adama to rely heavily on him as a member of ''Galactica's'' command crew, despite his relative youth and junior rank.

As well as performing the role of Tactical Officer, Gaeta also manages the ship's [[FTL]] systems, including the calculation and initiation of Jumps. Gaeta also manages the needs of the various primary [[Computers|computer systems]] used on the battlestar.

==Remarkable Brillance==

As a result of his studies in biogenetics, Lt. Gaeta is selected by Adama to assist Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] in the development of the much-needed [[Cylon detector]] following the Cylon attack([[Water]]). During his time working with Baltar, Gaeta develops a certain respect and liking for the doctor - despite the latter's apparent eccentricities. When a woman called "[[Shelly Godfrey]]" arrives on-board ''Galactica'', Gaeta works hard to prove Baltar's innocence of the charges levelled against him ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]). Although he is ultimately successful, Gaeta fails to follow-up on the fact that the photographic evidence supplied by "Shelly Godfrey" looked as if the evidence itself had been faked in a way that ensured it was exposed as a forgery.

Gaeta shows his remarkable brilliance after ''Galactica'' mistakenly Jumps to a different set of coordinates than the rest of [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] to escape a Cylon attack ([[Scattered]]). The [[FTL]] computers compensate for spatial changes, but due to the chaos after [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] is shot by [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]], Gaeta does not have time to synchronize the spatial positioning with the rest of the Fleet, whose FTL computers had collectively different information. Complicating the issue, if ''Galactica'' returns to their original position, the Cylons would destroy the ship before it could retrieve the correct Fleet coordinates using standard procedure.

Gaeta blames himself (although [[Saul Tigh]] did not), but later realizes that by networking four computers of the ship (something Commander Adama may never have approved), he could reduce the coordinate calculation time from hours to minutes. Knowing the Cylons would try to crack his ''ad hoc'' network, Gaeta sets up five [[Wikipedia:Firewall (networking)|firewalls]] in the network to slow their progress while the ship's guns and Vipers buy the needed time to calculate. Unfortunately for Gaeta, the firewalls are not completely effective. Several power and CIC systems were disabled by a Cylon infection while [[Cylon Centurion]]s board the ship ([[Valley of Darkness]]). Gaeta scrambles to purge the systems of any remaining traces of the [[Virus|virus]].

==Under Pressure==

Gaeta's calm exterior shows signs of wear when his interview with [[D'anna Biers]] shows him somewhat drunk, smoking, and brandishing a rather garish tattoo of a tiger ([[Final Cut]]). Viewers learn from the footage that Gaeta's first name is Felix.

The Cylon virus rears its ugly head once more a few weeks later when shipboard malfunctions increase to a point where consoles begin to sputter and short out. Gaeta confirms that the same virus they thought they had removed from the formerly-networked computers had metamorphized into a heuristic program--a [[Logic bomb|logic bomb]]--that studied and probed flaws in the battlestar's computers and the hardware that each system manages. The logic bomb threatened to disable the ship's human control on a Cylon fighter's command--and a Cylon attack force was imminent.

After Colonel Tigh's command to perform the daunting task of inspecting many lines of computer code for a Cylon virus, the young lieutenant completely loses his cool:

:'''Gaeta''': A power surge energized the board. System's been twitchy ever since the Cylons infiltrated our network. 
:'''Tigh''': Commander's right. I don't care if you have to go through this program line by line; fix it. 
:'''Gaeta''': Excuse me? 
:'''Tigh''': You heard me. 
:'''Gaeta''': Sir, I'm running every diagnostic we've got. Checking each line of code could take days. 
:'''Tigh''': I am not interested in excuses. Fix it! 
:'''Gaeta''': It's not an excuse, sir. It's a [[frak|frakking]] fact! 

Everyone on the bridge, especially Commander Adama, is shocked by Gaeta's highly uncharacteristic outburst, but Adama is not particularly surprised, knowing that everyone on ''Galactica'' has low morale after working for months with no relief or change to their routine.

Gaeta has a solution for the logic bomb: Wipe all computer hard drives and restore them from backups made before the Cylon attack. The problem in doing this is that ''Galactica'' will be completely vulnerable to attack, save for her Viper fighters, for several minutes as her computers are rebuilt.

Against his instincts and on [[Laura Roslin]]'s advice, Adama opts to use the unique abilities of the cooperative [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii]] to aid them. Gaeta gives the humanoid Cylon a fiber-optic data link with access to the battlestar mainframe computer and the ship's communications. After a few tense moments, Valerii asks Gaeta to perform the computer hard drive wipe after taking into her computer/brain a copy of the Cylon virus. She manipulates it and transmits to the massive incoming Cylon fleet, disabling the entire Cylon fleet in the same way that the Colonials suffered in the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. The Colonial forces [[Great Cylon Turkey Shoot|destroy the entire Cylon force]] without a single Colonial casualty ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

Gaeta is among the tense officers and crew in CIC that witness a standoff between their battlestar and the heavily-advanced battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', whose commander, Admiral [[Helena Cain]], has opted to execute two ''Galactica'' crewmembers after she tried them herself and against Adama's requests for the rights of his crew to have a fair, open trial ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

== The Presidental Election and New Caprica ==

During the presidental election, Gaeta was assigned to aid and oversee the ballot counting process on ''Galactica''. He also aided in thwarting Roslin's plans to steal the election (though he never apparently knew -- or indicated any knowledge of -- who exactly was behind it, other than Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]) by discovering the illegitimate ballots from the ''[[Zephyr]]''. The only reason he realized that the ''Zephyr'''s ballots were tampered with were due to the fact that the ''Zephyr''<nowiki>'</nowiki>s original, valid ballots had misspelled Gaius Baltar's name -- the fixed ballots did not share this error. (Gaeta had authorized the go-ahead to use the misspelled ballots due to the lack of time to print new ones prior to the opening of the polls.)
Unfortunately, due to this happenstance discovery Baltar, who had been rightfully voted as President-Elect, was sworn in as president and ordered the Fleet to colonize [[New Caprica]].

A year later on [[New Caprica]], Gaeta seems to be an advisor to President [[Gaius Baltar]]. His previous post on ''Galactica'' was assumed by [[Karl Agathon]]. While Gaeta was pleased that there had been no Cylon attacks during Baltar's presidency, he disapproved of Baltar's womanizing and was secretly infuriated at Baltar's devil-may-cry attitude towards the New Caprica City Worker's Union and the Quorum of Twelve. Gaeta later brought news of the Cylon invasion to the president and was present when Baltar surrendered New Caprica to [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Number Five]]. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

==Note==
*While Gaeta is described as the "Tactical Officer", his role is closer to that of the US Navy's CIC Watch Officer (CICWO), combining it with elements of the Tactical Watch Officer (TAO), a role also partially fulfilled by [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]], both under the command of [[William Adama]]. According to the official SciFi.com character data file, Gaeta's title is "Senior Officer of the Watch", although the title of Tactical Officer may have a better "ring" to the ears of most viewers.
*The name "Felix" means "Happy" in Latin; the connotations of the Latin word imply being fortunate, lucky, prosperous, or "favored by the gods". It first appeared in the episode ''[[Final Cut]]''.
*[[Wikipedia:Gaeta|Gaeta]] is the name of a small seaport and resort in southern Italy. This goes well with his Latin first name.
*His counterpart in the original "Battlestar Galactica" is Sgt. [[Omega]], a [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]] native.
*In the [[Miniseries]], Gaeta's name is usually pronounced "Guy-tah" {{IPA|ˈgaɪ.tə}}. However, in all subsequent installments of the regular series, everyone pronounces it as "Gay-tah" {{IPA|ˈgeɪ.tə}}; however, Col. [[Saul Tigh]] seems to vacillate between {{IPA|ˈgeɪ.tə}} and {{IPA|ˈgaɪ.tə}}.
*There is speculation among fans that Gaeta is another [[Cylon agent speculation|Cylon infiltrator]].

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=(''Unknown, eventully'' ''[[Tory Foster]]'')|title=Presidential Aide|after= ''Incumbent''}}
{{end box}}

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Gaeta, Felix]]
[[Category:Characters|Gaeta, Felix]]
[[Category:RDM|Gaeta, Felix]]

Thomas Zarek

2006-05-05T17:55:20Z

Nevfennas: /* Breakaway from the Fleet */ clarification

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:zarek.jpg|200px]]
|age= Early 50s
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]]
|birthname= Thomas Zarek
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status= Single
|role= Representing Sagittaron on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]
|rank= Councilman
|actor= [[Richard Hatch]]
|cylon=
|name=
}}

'''Tom Zarek''' was a political activist for more than 30 years before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. He is a charismatic, eloquent and ideological political agitator who was incarcerated for destroying a government building on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]]. His 20-year incarceration culminated in a sojurn in the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', a [[FTL]]-capable prison ship, whilst in transit to parole hearings. Assigned the prison number of [[893893]], Zarek was under consideration for parole at the time of the [[Cylon attack]].

== Biography ==

Zarek came from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]], a colony known to be mistreated by the other eleven [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonies]]. Through his experiences on that colony, he became an advocate of freedom from slavery. Zarek became a voice for the disenfranchised and, along with publishing a book that was virtually banned throughout the Colonies, actively sought to fight against injustices.

To some he is considered a terrorist and nuisance for his tactics, which included the destruction of a government building that resulted in an unspecified loss of life. He believes in the efficacy of violence as a means of change, going as so far as to go to prison over a "matter of conscience" and his refusal of President [[Richard Adar|Richard Adar's]] politically motivated conditional pardon (the conditions of the pardon being that he would publicly apologize and pledge to give up violence as a means of change).

Even some of his fellow Sagittarons have an intense dislike of him, including Petty Officer [[Anastasia Dualla]]. Despite this, he became a public figure whose name had weight and almost became legendary, thanks to public opinion ([[Bastille Day]]).

== After the Exodus ==

After avoiding the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' commander's desire to euthanize the prisoners (thanks to President [[Laura Roslin]]'s humanitarian decision) ([[Miniseries]]) Zarek plots to escape captivity. With the water shortage and the discovery of a planet that could replenish the lost water ([[Water]]), Commander [[William Adama|Adama]], [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] and President Roslin reluctantly decide to ask the prisoners to volunteer as badly needed manpower, under the condition that they would not be treated as slaves and they would agree of their own volition.

After [[Lee Adama]]'s unsuccessful attempt to persuade the prisoners to help in the recovery efforts, Zarek's springs the prisoners' escape plan. The prisoners, under Zarek's command, usurp control of the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', and takes her crew and ''Galactica's'' visitors as prisoners. Zarek states his terms for release of the prisoners: the resignation of [[Laura Roslin]] and her administration, and the start of free and open elections for a new president. Zarek deems Roslin's presidency as illegitimate and illegal (clearly, the details of [[Case Orange]] were not made public, though even if they were, Zarek wouldn't have backed down).

Unfortunately, Zarek's aims are not in keeping with his demands; he wants a bloodbath to ensue, believing that all that people understand is violence, and that a bloodbath would destroy any credibility that Adama and Roslin have.

When the situation deteriorates near the point of catastrophe for all involved, Zarek, ready to sacrifice his life for his beliefs, is swayed by [[Lee Adama]]'s promise that he would uphold the [[Articles of Colonization]] and hold open elections for a new president, once Roslin had served the remainder of President Adar's term (as dictated by the Articles and Case Orange), as well as give the ship over to the prisoners as a show of good faith.

== Attempts for Political Power ==
[[Image:Home_pt1_debate.jpg|thumb|left|[[Tom Zarek]] in debate with [[Quorum of Twelve|Quorum members]]. (C. Sci-Fi Channel)
]]
With a degree of freedom obtained by the prisoners - including control of the ''Astral Queen'', Zarek engages in a steady effort to gain the goodwill of others of influence within the fleet. This effort includes physical acts of support for other ships (such as fixing the air filtration system on the ship occupied by [[Marshall Bagott]], a politician from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]]).

Zarek's efforts result in a nomination as the Representative of [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]] on the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. From there, Zarek makes a bid for the position of Vice President using the support of those he assisted, and possibly badgered ([[Colonial Day]]).

While Zarek's attempt at the Vice Presidency fails after Roslin replaces the somewhat unlikeable [[Wallace Gray]] with the charismatic Doctor [[Gaius Baltar]] as an alternative candidate, Zarek makes it clear to Roslin that he will be standing against her in the elections.

Zarek remains possibly the most powerful and popular representative in the [[Quorum of Twelve]]. 

== Breakaway from [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] ==

The schism created by Commander Adama's unlawful arrest of President Roslin and [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]]'s declaration of [[Wikipedia:martial law|martial law]] presents Zarek with an opportunity to convince others that Adama is after total control of the Fleet. Zarek likely sought to use Tigh's inexperience with dealing with the government and [[Colonial Press|press]] against the military powers. Zarek and the Quorum soon learn of Roslin's terminal cancer, after Tigh permits the Quorum of Twelve to see her in ''Galactica'''s brig ([[Fragged]]).

After the ''[[Gideon]]'' incident, where four civilians die, some crewmembers of ''Galactica'' orchestrate Roslin's escape. Lee Adama, knowing they would be hunted throughout the Fleet, enlists Zarek's assistance in secreting Roslin away from Tigh and Commander Adama ("[[Resistance]]", "[[The Farm]]"). Roslin is initially dismayed to be greeted by Zarek, but realizes that Zarek, no friend to Adama or Tigh, is "the enemy of my enemy."

Zarek and Roslin attempt to use appeals by recorded [[wireless]] messages to sway favor in the Fleet to return to Kobol. Zarek convinces Lee Adama at first to create a dissenting message against ''Galactica's'' rule, but Lee changes his mind (probably because he swore to his comatose father that it wasn't about them). After Roslin plays the "religious card" to sway support for her cause in the Fleet, Roslin and Zarek lead a [[Laura Roslin faction|separatist fleet]] back to [[Kobol]] to await [[Kara Thrace]]'s return with the [[Arrow of Apollo]], for use in unlocking the [[Tomb of Athena]].

Zarek, with his associate [[Meier]], plan to eliminate the young Captain Adama on Kobol, using the rationalization about [[Zeus]]' warning that any return to Kobol would "exact a price in blood". Zarek feels that removing the young Adama would create a political power vacuum, allowing Zarek to take the position as captain of factioned Fleet, while Roslin would remain president ([[Home, Part I]]).

Zarek abandons the assassination plan when Commander Adama arrives on Kobol to mend fences with Roslin. However, Meier privately revises the plan outside of Zarek's knowledge, now with the goal of eliminating both Adamas by soliciting the help of the [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii]] that returned with [[Karl Agathon]] and Thrace. Unfortunately for Zarek, Sharon Valerii double-crosses Meier, killing him at the entrance to the Tomb of Athena. While none in the group immediately consider Zarek as a suspect in Meier's assassination attempt, Commander Adama remains guarded and leaves Zarek and several others outside of the Tomb under the watchful eye of [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] while they unlock its secrets ([[Home, Part II]]).

==After Fleet Reunification==
Zarek later gives [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] information regarding the [[Black market (organization)|black market]], initially claiming not to be a part of it because he needs to keep his hands clean, but ultimately points out that the black market does get supplies where they are needed. Nonetheless, Zarek mentions the central hub of the black market, ''[[Prometheus]]'', a ship so lawless it's practically "off the grid", as well as the name of its "businessman", [[Phelan]]. However, soon after Phelan's death at the hands of Apollo, Tom Zarek is seen walking through a crowd on the Prometheus with one of Phelan's old henchmen in tow. It is unknown how much involvment Tom Zarek has with the organization ([[Black Market]]).

Despite being the presumbed opponent of Roslin in the upcoming presidential election, Zarek decided to step down due to low poll numbers. He managed to talk vice president [[Gauis Baltar]] into running in his place, perhaps as part of a more long-term plan to ascend to power ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

==Baltar's Election Campaign==
When Baltar announces his run for the Presidency Zarek becomes his campaign manager. For all his personal political talent he has a hard time managing Baltar's campaign and faces the tough issue of whether Baltar is an electable candidate. After being trounced in the first debate by Roslin, Baltar's political future is in deep jeopardy and Zarek is left looking for a stronger wedge-issue other than Roslin's ties to the religious Gemenese. As if delivered by the hand of [[God]], an issue presents itself that they can get on the supposed right side of; the colonization of a [[New Caprica|newly discovered planet]] and a safe-haven from the Cylons. Zarek presses Baltar to pick up this issue and run with it and as soon as he does his political fortunes turn around dramatically. Like he predicted the people rally around the idea of colonization and Baltar sails out of the final debate with a wide lead on Roslin ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

With his job of campaign manager all but over on election day, there isn't much for Zarek to do but sit back and wait for the results to come in. When the initial tallies come in suggesting Roslin scored a remarkable come-back victory he says to Baltar that he's seen enough elections to recognize a fixed one. Baltar admonishes Zarek, maintaining that, whatever Laura Roslin is, she is above fixing an election.

{{spoiltext|Zarek is not seen again when the story picks up one year later on New Caprica, but according to Ronald Moore's blog[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2006/03/#000410], Zarek was "...Vice President, but his relationship with Baltar went south relatively quickly, and he simply refused to cooperate once the Cylon occupation began."}}

== Notes ==

Tom Zarek is portrayed by actor [[Richard Hatch]], who portrayed the original [[Apollo (TOS)|Apollo]] in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|1978 ''Battlestar Galactica'' series]].

Hatch has written novels based on the original series, and also leads an attempt to bring the Original Series back theatrically in a project called "[[Battlestar Galactica: The Second Coming]]."

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{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Zarek, Tom]]
[[Category:Characters|Zarek, Tom]]
[[Category:RDM|Zarek, Tom]]
[[Category:People from Sagittaron|Zarek, Tom]]

Leland Adama

2006-05-05T17:31:58Z

Nevfennas: /* The Inner Conflicts at Kobol */ was wrong episode

:''The article discusses the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]] character with the pilot callsign of "Apollo." For information on his [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] counterpart, see [[Apollo (TOS)]].''

{{Character Data|
|photo= [[Image:Lee Adama promo.jpg|200px]]
|age=
|colony= [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]]
|birthname= Lee Adama
|callsign= Apollo
|death=
|parents= [[Caroline Adama]] (mother, likely deceased), [[William Adama]] (father)
|siblings= [[Zak Adama]] (deceased)
|children=1 unborn child with Gianne (presumed deceased)
|marital status= Dating [[Anastasia Dualla]]
|role= Commander, battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''
|rank=Commander
|cylon=
|actor=[[Jamie Bamber]]
|name=
}}

== Biographical Notes ==

=== Background ===

'''Lee "Apollo" Adama''' is the eldest son of [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]] and [[William Adama]]. Together with his younger brother, Zak, he was raised largely by his mother on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], following his parents' divorce when he was eight.

Despite his father's estrangement from the family, Adama nevertheless inherited his passion for flying - a passion that saw him enrolling in the Colonial military reserves after graduating from college. Following his basic training, he graduated from the military academy third in his class and immediately applied for flight school.

Not to be outdone by his elder brother, Zak Adama applied for military service, a move that eventually brought tragedy to the Adama household.

Accepted into flight school, Adama proved himself a gifted and natural pilot, hampered only by his tendency to over-intellectualise things - a result of his upbringing with his mother, who encouraged him to read widely, and think freely (encouragement that lead him to read banned texts by the renegade [[Tom Zarek]] while at college ([[Bastille Day]])).

Graduating from flight school, Adama was commissioned as a Lieutenant in the Colonial Reserve, flying the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] Mark VII. During this time, he was also introduced to [[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]], a training instructor at flight school, who was also involved with Zak Adama. While Adama was still at flight school, the three frequently spent time together, and Adama and Thrace developed a friendship through Zak Adama ([[Miniseries]]).

=== Brother's Death ===

Tragedy struck some two years prior to the renewed Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies when Zak Adama, recently graduated from flight school, was killed on a routine Viper mission. At the time, the cause of the accident was put down to pilot error. However, Lee Adama chose to blame the mishap on his father, whom he believed had pushed Zak into applying for military service and for applying for flight school ([[Miniseries]]).

Following Zak's death, Lee Adama became estranged from his father, seeking to build his career well away from any influence exerted by either William Adama or the legendary [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'', his father's command. While he was successful in this - gaining promotion to Captain through his own abilities, the decision nevertheless placed a heavy strain on his friendship with Kara Thrace, as she applied for pilot duty aboard ''Galactica''.

Adama spends much time on Caprica and becomes engaged to a woman named [[Gianne]]. She tells him she is pregnant with their child, causing him to run from her due to his own family issues. Before he can speak with her again he is assigned to take part in the decommissioning ceremony aboard ''Galactica''. ([[Black Market]])

Adama is reunited with both his father and Kara Thrace when it was decided ''Galactica'' should be decommissioned and handed over to civil authorities as a living museum and educational center of the [[Cylon War]]. As a part of the final ceremonies marking ''Galactica's'' retirement, Lee Adama is ordered to participate in a final Viper flyby to salute both the ship and her commanding officer - an assignment he undertakes grudgingly, doing little to hide his true feelings from the moment he arrives on the battlestar ([[Miniseries]]). Matters are not helped when he discovers he will fly not in his own Mark VII Viper, but in the newly-restored Mark II Viper his father had flown during the Cylon War ([[Miniseries]]).

Things worsen after the PR official aboard ''Galactica'', [[Aaron Doral]], sees Captain Adama's presence on ''Galactica'' as a major PR opportunity and has Adama and his father pose for pictures together. Immediately following this, Adama confronts his father over Zak's death, during which he vents two years' worth of anger, clearly expressing his belief that William Adama was responsible for the loss of his brother.

=== Surprise [[Cylon Attack]] ===

Following the decommissioning ceremony, Lee Adama departs ''Galactica'', acting as a unofficial escort for ''[[Colonial Heavy 798]]'', the official transport for Secretary of Education [[Laura Roslin]], who represented President [[Richard Adar|Adar]] at the ceremony. Mid-way through their return to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], Adama and the crew of ''Colonial Heavy 798'' hear of the Cylon attacks on the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], and soon find themselves under direct attack. While Adama is able to thwart the missile attack, his father's old Viper is disabled and is brought aboard ''Colonial Heavy 798''. Adama becomes one of Laura Roslin's unofficial advisors, aiding her in her self-appointed rescue mission. Adama's annoyance of his father's old Viper comes back to haunt him when [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]], returning from her unexpected rescue mission on Caprica and disastrous attack on two [[Cylon Raider]]s, notes to him that other Vipers and other modern Colonial spacecraft like his Mark VII were [[Command Navigation Program|easily destroyed]] by Cylon attacks.

Following his disobedience of a direct order from his father , Adama again saves ''Colonial Heavy 798'' from a nuclear missile attack with a failed experiment he toyed with in [[War College]], using ''Galactica's'' [[EMP]] coils that were placed on the ship for return to Caprica and the Colonial Fleet - while simultaneously making it look like the ship had been destroyed. He supports Roslin in her rescue efforts. Adama persuades Roslin to lead the [[FTL]]-capable ships to follow ''Galactica'' to the [[Ragnar Anchorage]].

As the ranking pilot aboard ''Galactica'', and despite his relative inexperience, Adama finds himself promoted to the position of CAG by Colonel [[Saul Tigh]].

Apollo leads a Viper squadron in keeping [[Cylon Raider]]s at bay while the civilian [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] Jumps away from Ragnar Anchorage. His ship is badly damaged midway in the battle and Adama would have been killed by a missile were it not for the lightning-fast and highly-accurate shooting of Starbuck. Starbuck's highly unconventional flying force-fits her fighter and Adama's now-powerless Viper nose-to-nose and flies him back to the battlestar seconds before the port [[flight pod]] closes and ''Galactica'' Jumps away.

The attacks presumably kill Lee's fiancé [[Gianne]] and their unborn child before Lee can speak to her again. This drives him into depression leading him to at an unknown time start seeing a prostitute named [[Shevon]] ([[Black Market]]).

=== Special Advisor ===
[[image:Water_Apollo_Roslin.jpg|thumb|left|300px|[[Lee Adama|Adama]] and President Roslin shake hands after appointment as military advisor in "[[Water]]". (c) Universal)]]
Lee Adama finds himself attached to Roslin as a "special advisor" to further help her understand military matters. This appointment does not sit well with his father ([[Bastille Day]]).

When tensions rise during a hostage crisis with prisoners aboard the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', Adama resolves the situation with only one life lost through an arrangement reached between Adama and the leader of the convicts, [[Tom Zarek]]. While the solution is sensible, it is not to the liking of either Commander Adama or President Roslin.

In the weeks following the Cylon attack, Adama finds time to re-evaluate his relationship with his father - due in no small part to Starbuck's admission of her involvement in Zak's acceptance as a fighter pilot ([[Miniseries]]) and his subsequent death. Father and son grow somewhat closer - even standing shoulder-to-shoulder when Starbuck is MIA ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]). Even so, Adama's former self-doubts and moodiness are not easily overcome and sometimes come back to haunt him when he is tasked to fill a role that others are unsure he can manage. As a Viper pilot, Adama is able to escape from Starbuck's shadow, proving himself capable in unconventional and skilled flying in the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

After the tylium asteroid mission, Adama matures enormously, emerging from his shell as a somewhat disillusioned officer and becomes a practical leader who now comfortably straddles his responsibilities as [[CAG]] of ''Galactica'' with his duties as advisor to Roslin. With few issues with either Roslin or his father, Adama demonstrates his maturity particularly well in his handling of security arrangements for the initial meeting of Roslin's [[Quorum of Twelve]] aboard the luxury liner ''[[Cloud Nine]]'' ([[Colonial Day]]).

=== The Inner Conflicts at Kobol ===

Unfortunately, Adama's beliefs in the need for democratic representation and civil government brings him in direct conflict with orders given him by Commander Adama. During the arrest of Laura Roslin following her [[Arrow of Apollo|interference with military operations]], Captain Adama draws his gun on [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] in a direct act of mutiny, protesting his father's removal of Roslin from office. Arrested together with Roslin, Adama watches helplessly in [[CIC]] as [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Lieutenant Valerii]] shoots his father at point blank range, seriously wounding him ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]).

Adama is temporarily furloughed by Colonel Tigh so that he can continue his CAG responsibilities, For a time, Commander Adama's initiative lives on through his son. Young Adama leads a fight with Cylons to buy time for ''Galactica'' to find its proper bearings to the civilian Fleet ([[Scattered]]), He leads a team of [[Marines]] to stop [[Cylon Centurion]]s from reaching [[Aft Damage Control]], saving the ship ([[Valley of Darkness]]). After that, Adama continues his initiative and leads a [[SAR]] mission with two [[Raptors]] to retrieve stranded Colonials on the surface of Kobol ([[Fragged]]).

Adama's desire to let democracy work without overt military action comes to a head once more as he plots with a handful of others to free Roslin and smuggle her away from ''Galactica'' ([[Resistance]]). Before he leaves, he apologizes to his unconscious Commander Adama at his bedside for what he is about to do: Leave with Roslin and a [[Laura Roslin faction|faction]] of ships to search for data on Earth on Kobol. Commander Adama begins to awaken just as Adama leaves his side.

On the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', Adama is so happy to see Kara Thrace returned safely from Caprica with the Arrow of Apollo that he hugs and also impulsively kisses her, pleasantly surprising Thrace ([[Home, Part I]]). Moments later, as the Caprica copy of Sharon Valerii entered, Adama instantly grabs the known [[Cylon agent]] in anger and would have killed her if Helo and Roslin did not intervene.
[[image:Home_pt1-Apollo_Starbuck.jpg|thumb|[[Lee Adama|Adama]] and Kara Thrace speak aboard the ''Astral Queen'' in "Home, Part I". (c) Universal)]]
Later, with their military protocols and attitudes temporarily relaxed, Adama playfully teases the brooding Kara Thrace by stealing a [[pyramid (RDM)|pyramid]] ball she took as a keepsake from her time with [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] on Caprica. He returns the ball after sensing her depressed mood and tells her that he would be happy to listen to what was on her mind. In the same conversation, he lets it slip out that he loves Thrace. Amused, Thrace cheers up a bit and teases Adama, telling him that there are no take-backs on what he said.

Adama and Thrace join President Roslin and her other supporters on their quest to find the [[Tomb of Athena]] on Kobol. When Cylon Centurions ambush the group along an ancient trail, Adama and Thrace work well together in the fight, complementing each other for their fine shooting. During the incident, Adama chases what appeared to be an escaping Valerii, with Thrace calling Adama back in vain. Valerii takes a grenade launcher and aims it in the direction of Adama, but Valerii actually uses the weapon to destroy the last Centurion instead before dropping the weapon to a very surprised Adama.

Adama's reunion with his recovered father on Kobol further mends the wounds between them, both politically and personally. Like Captain Adama had done on the ''Queen'', his father reacts violently to the existence of a another copy of Valerii, leaving Captain Adama in the awkward position of defending her from his father.

In the virtual planetarium created by the Tomb of Athena, Adama is the party member that completes the mystery of interpreting how to use the constellations as viewed from Earth to make a flight path. He spots the [[Wikipedia:Lagoon Nebula|Lagoon Nebula]] in the sky where the Scorpius constellation resided, a celestial body known to the Colonials which gives them a reference point to navigate to Earth. His father confirms Adama's observation, noting that the nebula is far away from their current location at Kobol.

After the Fleet's reunification, Lee Adama is fully restored to flight status and his position as the Commander, Air Group ([[Final Cut]]). Apollo doubts that [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] could successfully complete a prototype fighter later known as the [[Blackbird]], but in the end aids in its first test flight with Starbuck. Around this time, Adama begins to develop a peculiar attraction to Petty Officer 2nd Class [[Anastasia Dualla]] ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

===Reassignment===
Apollo is on [[CAP]] when the [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' reunites with ''Galactica'': he was one of the first to see it up close. Soon afterwards, friction develops between Adama and the CAG of ''Pegasus'', Captain [[Cole Taylor|Cole "Stinger" Taylor]]. Taylor feels that Adama's pilots were undisciplined and implies that Adama has his position through his father's influence. Taylor recommends that Adama have his pilots focus on keeping a "killcount" of Raiders to encourage competition between his pilots, while Adama stresses that his first priority is to make sure that all of his pilots merely survive another day.

To Adama's shock, Admiral [[Helena Cain]] re-assigns him and Lt. Thrace to ''Pegasus'', under Taylor's command. Cain believes that having Commander Adama's son in the role of CAG was a mistake that had clouded Commander Adama's judgment, as young Adama had been insubordinate and even [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|mutinous]] in the past. During a briefing on an upcoming scouting mission against the Cylon fleet following them, Thrace crassly points out that it would never work. She is grounded while Taylor orders Adama to perform the humiliating task of co-piloting a Raptor. However, after the briefing, Adama surreptitiously gives Starbuck a surveillance package and tells her to take the Blackbird to carry out a recon mission on her own. When Commander Adama and Admiral Cain turn on each other, Apollo is away in Taylor's Raptor on his recon mission ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

As the two battlestar commanders begin sparring with Vipers, ''Pegasus'' orders Taylor to relieve Adama of duty. Taylor pulls his sidearm and takes away Adama's. Now weaponless and with nothing more to do than to ride along, Adama asks permission to head to the rear of the Raptor. While Taylor is busy, Adama secretly sends an encoded [[wireless]] message to Starbuck on her whereabouts with the Blackbird and the secret stealth mission he tasked her with. It happened that Starbuck arrives back in the Fleet's space to see the furious and dangerous game of Viper-tag and replies to Adama, asking what was going on. Starbuck's return on the outer fringes of [[DRADIS]] activate proximity alarms on both ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'', whose Vipers unite as a team to intercept what they think is a [[Raider]]. Starbuck manages to identify herself before things get out of hand.

Kara Thrace downloads her reconnaissance photos of what would be later known as the [[Resurrection Ship]] to a very surprised Admiral Cain, who promotes Thrace to Captain as well as assigning her as ''Pegasus'' [[CAG]], replacing Cole Taylor. Cain feels that persecuting Adama for authorizing Thrace's mission would be odd since she was promoting Thrace, so she decides to take Adama off flight status. In light of Thrace's new task of planning an attack on the Resurrection Ship, Thrace asks for and successfully returns Adama to flight status. He remains, however, demoted to Lieutenant ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

Adama visits [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] in the ''Pegasus'' brig, asking the two of them with a smile, "So, just how many kinds of stupid are you?" He informs them that their scheduled execution is on hold until at least after the battle operation, and tells how Commander Adama "went to the mat" for both of them in trying to get them back, almost going into a shooting war with ''Pegasus''.

After the battlestar commanders and their teams are briefed by Thrace on her attack plan, Commander Adama requests Thrace to stay to talk more on the plan and dismisses his son, asking him cryptically to "stay focused, son." With young Adama gone, the elder Adama asks Thrace to kill Cain after the operation to prevent her from eventually having Commander Adama killed and, in turn, doom the Fleet to Cain's tyrannical commands. Commander Adama tells Thrace to take Lee Adama with her, to watch her back ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]).

=== Battle of the Resurrection Ship ===

With the recon photos from Starbucks mission in hand, Thrace plans an assault on the Resurrection Ship and the two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]s defending it. At the same time, Starbuck told Apollo that his father had ordered her to kill Cain after the battle, and for Apollo to watch her back. Outraged, Apollo confronted his father with this, who said that it wasn't something he wanted to do but that had to be done. However, Apollo was shocked when his father told him that assassinating Cain was President Roslin's idea. Apollo was in disbelief that as a society they had fallen to these levels. Thrace assigns Adama the specific task of disabling the Resurrection Ship's [[FTL]] drive by sneaking up on it in the Blackbird and destroying it with a precision missile strike. Apollo is successful in his mission and disables the Resurrection Ship, however, he is then hit by a floating piece of debris. Apollo is able to eject, but the Blackbird is destroyed. Alive, but not unscathed, Apollo floats in space watching the battle take place, able to faintly hear [[Dee]] calling for him over the wireless. A small hole in the leg on his flight suit allows most of his oxygen to escape into space. Drifting in and out of consciousness, he finds himself floating in a body of water, presumably on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] before the attack.

Adama is found shortly afterwards by a [[SAR]] [[Raptor]] and is brought back from the brink of death on board. However Apollo becomes despondent and distant from his friends and family after his near death experience. In the pilots locker room, Thrace tells Adama "Lets just be glad that we both came back alive, alright?" to which Adama responds "Thats just it, Kara, I didn't want to make it back alive." ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]])

=== The Black Market ===

Adama (who has had his captains rank restored) and Thrace apprehend Viper saboteur [[Asha Janik]] of the [[Demand Peace]] group which is trying to make peace with the Cylons. ([[Epiphanies]])

After President Roslin is saved from her cancer ([[Epiphanies]]) she begins trying to put down the Fleet's [[Black market (organization)|Black Market]]. New Pegasus commander [[Jack Fisk]] is soon murdered leading the elder Adama (now an Admiral) to assign his son to investigate. After seeing prostitute [[Shevon]] and her daughter [[Paya]] on ''[[Cloud 9]]'' Adama is asked by [[Anastasia Dualla]] where the relationship between the two of them was going. After he can't answer Dualla takes it to mean it is over. Adama rushes back to Shevon's quarters after hearing a call for help from her, and is ambushed by thugs. Their leader [[Phelan]] warns him against investigating further. Lee is knocked unconscious and upon awaking finds everyone gone except the corpse of Fisk's murderer.

With some help from [[Tom Zarek]] Adama finds the Black Markets main ship ''[[Prometheus]]'', abroad which Paya and other children are locked up. He confronts Phelan who tells him a Black Market is needed in the Fleet since no supplies will ever reach the people any other way. Shevon is dragged out to admit she works for Phelan as a prostitute. Adama shoots Phelan and tells his bodyguards the market will continue unless it keeps holding back essential medicines, killing, and using child prostitution.
Shevon refuses to see Adama anymore, stating to him she and Paya are just replacements for his lost fiancé [[Gianne]] and their unborn child. ([[Black Market]])

===Friendly Fire===
While on leave to [[Cloud 9]] with [[Anastasia Dualla]], a group of terrorists demanding they be allowed to kill [[Sharon Valerii]] held about a dozen people, including Dualla, Billy Keikeya, [[Ellen Tigh]] and Adama, hostage in a bar. Lee reacted quickly, sabotaging the bar's sensors so it appeared they were leaking atmosphere. The sabotage enabled Capt. Thrace to gather intelligence on the situation, but her cover was blown, and she was forced to lay down some fire to escape. One shot hit Adama in the chest. Dualla was able to care for Adama long enough for him to survive to Galactica's sickbay, and later sat at his bedside while he recovered. ([[Sacrifice]])

===A Worthy Command ===

Adama finds himself promoted to Major and assigned to battlestar [[Pegasus (RDM)|''Pegasus]]'' as the [[Executive officer]] for new commander [[Barry Garner]], a former officer in Engineering. Garner finds an instant dislike for Starbuck and soon orders her to be sent back to ''Galactica''. Meanwhile, a Raptor recon mission near a binary star system becomes a [[SAR]] as the two craft go missing. Against orders from Admiral Adama, Garner takes ''Pegasus'' in to search for the Raptors. His impulsive and unwise efforts result in a Cylon ambush of three basestars.

With the FTL drive damaged, he relegates command to Major Adama and heads below to help in FTL repairs. After a moment's hesitation (perhaps thinking what his father would do), Adama orders the forward guns to fire on the nearest basestar's central spire, critically damaging the basestar and forcing its retreat, while commanding the battlestar's fighters (led by Starbuck) to guard embattled areas damaged from nuclear pummeling. After Commander Garner successfully repairs a critical area and the FTL drive repaired, Major Adama retrieves the fighters and Jumps back to the Fleet and relative safety.

Admiral Adama debriefs his son, and congratulates him by promoting him to the rank of Commander and giving him command of battlestar ''Pegasus'' ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

Sometime later, Apollo wished Starbuck good luck in rescuing [[Anders]] and the rest of the [[Resistance]], despite his clear personal feeling towards her. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). After the two of them returned, Adama attempted to introduce himself politely, but was hampered by vast quantity of alcohol they had consumed.

[[Image:Fatlee6as.jpg|thumb|left|Lee Adama in command of ''Pegasus''.]]

Just over a year later, Apollo was the Commander of a half-capacity, nearly unneeded Battlestar orbiting [[New Caprica]]. He was in the process of deciding whether or not to give Kara antibiotics for Anders (now her very ill husband) when Dualla (now an officer on the [[CIC]]) spots a Cylon fleet jumping into the nebula. Adama and his father had a brief discussion over their course of action (with Lee arguing for jumping away and Bill against), before the Admiral ordered the Fleet, whose population now consisted less than ten thousand crew, to jump away, leaving New Caprica to the Cylons, for the time being. ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]])

== Notes ==

''Some of this information may not be [[canon]].''

*From [[Ronald D. Moore]]'s [[Wikipedia:blog|blog]], in response to a fan's question:

<blockquote>In my first draft of the [[Miniseries|mini]], Lee Adama had just been accepted into test pilot school on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] and was not currently assigned to any [[battlestar]]. Presumably, he had been posted to at least a couple of battlestar [[CAG|air groups]] in his career, as well as several ground assignments as well. This isn't [[canon]] yet, however, and I'm currently thinking of changing some elements of his specific backstory as I work on storylines for [[Season 2 (2005-06)|Season Two]]. Overall, I'd say Lee was striving (perhaps too hard) to blaze a different path for himself in the fleet from that of his [[William Adama|father]]. I don't think Lee ever saw himself as a battlestar commander and was looking for a different way to make his mark.</blockquote>
*According to Jamie Bamber, Adama's official character biography states that “Lee is never so happy as when he’s in his kitchen cooking.”

*The subtitles under Apollo's name in "[[Final Cut]]" list him as "CFR". In the podcast, RDM explained that this stood for Colonial Fleet Reserves; likely analogous to the U.S. Army Reserve, the U.S. Air Force Reserve and such of the United States military; and Apollo is in that because, as stated above, he wasn't sure what he was doing with his life and wasn't sure if he was going to pursue a full career in the Fleet.
* Jamie Bamber is the husband of actress Kerry Norton, who portrays [[Layne Ishay]], the paramedic from "[[Scattered]]".
* Bamber is actually a British citizen; he disguises his accent to play the role of Lee Adama.

Here is Sky One's summary of Lee Adama:

:''Lee was born and raised on the colony of Caprica, where his family were born. A headstrong, scrappy boy, he was forever getting into fights at school.''

:''His parents divorced when he was just eight and his younger brother Zak was raised by their mother. His father visited him when he could, but military life often took him away for long periods. Nevertheless, both boys grew up worshipping this distant figure.''

:''Lee always wanted to be a pilot; to follow in his father's footsteps and join the fleet. He studied hard at school, aced his entrance exams to the academy and graduated third in his class. But the boy's hero-worship eventually turned to resentment, and neither knew how to repair it.''

:''While Lee was at flight school, his younger brother was away at Viper Squadron and a plum assignment on Atlantia - flagship of the fleet. Lee tried to dissuade him, but Zak did not want to be the only Adama without wings on his uniform. Zak's application was turned down. As Commander Adama pulled a few strings to get his son in, Lee was furious.''

:''Two weeks later, Zak's plane went down while he was flying a routine solo mission and he was killed. Lee spent the next two years focusing on his career, having no personal life and working to become the perfect fighter pilot.''

As this information does not come from the official Scifi.com site, it's authenticity is in question. Further, it is contradicted by on screen evidence: Zak was killed in an accident at flight school, and was never on a battlestar. Further, Lee did not work hard (at least after Zak's death) to be the best Viper pilot or to improve his career; multiple cast interviews and RDM podcasts state that he was despondent, didn't know what to do with his life, and was considering leaving the service. Further, in "[[Final Cut]]" we see that he is a member of the Colonial Fleet Reserves, not regular fleet, indicating that he wasn't particularly concerned with a lifelong career.

{{start box}}
{{succession box|before=[[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]]|title=Commander, Air Group of the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=[[George Birch|George "Catman" Birch]]}}
{{succession box|before=[[George Birch|George "Catman" Birch]]|title=Commander, Air Group of the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''|after=[[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]]}}
{{succession box|before=''(unknown, eventually [[Jack Fisk]])''|title=Executive Officer of the [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''|after=''(unknown, eventually [[Anastasia Dualla]])}}
{{succession box|before=[[Barry Garner]]|title=Commanding Officer of the [[Mercury class battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]''|after=Incumbent}}
{{end box}}

== See Also ==

* [[Apollo (TOS)]]
* [[Richard Hatch]]
* [[Tom Zarek]]

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Adama, Lee]]
[[Category:Characters|Adama, Lee]]
[[Category:RDM|Adama, Lee]]
[[Category:People from Caprica|Adama, Lee]]

Epiphanies

2006-04-30T18:18:40Z

Nevfennas: /* Questions */ answer

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:2BATejC05.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Epiphanies
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 13
| Guests=[[Colm Feore]] as President [[Richard Adar|Adar]]
| Writer=[[Joel Anderson Thompson]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Rod Hardy]]
| Production=2.13
| Rating= 1.9
| US Airdate=January 20 2006
| UK Airdate=March 28 2006
| DVD=
| Population=49,598
| Prev= [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
| Next= [[Black Market]]
}}

== Overview ==

: ''Admiral [[William Adama]] questions whether or not [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]'s pregnancy should be aborted. Meanwhile Roslin's health declines rapidly as a pro-Cylon peace group attempts to sow violence and discontent within the Fleet.''

== Summary ==

* President [[Laura Roslin]] is brought on board ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. She has days to live.
* Captain [[Kara Thrace]] and Lieutenant [[Louanne Katraine]] are conducting Viper tests. During a test of the Viper's projectile systems, Kat's port gun is destroyed and a piece of it impacts on Thrace's cockpit.
* [[Cally]] and CPO [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] discover that several rounds of ammunition from the damaged Viper are unusually light and fragile. These rounds break and misfire, leaving the projectile lodged in the barrel. When the next round fires, the overpressure destroys the gun. They determine the ammunition has been sabotaged.
*The sabotage investigation quickly leads [[Lee Adama]] and Kara Thrace to [[Asha Janik]], one of the recent civilian hirees in ''Galactica's'' armory. When they apprehend her, she declares her allegiance to an organization claiming to want peace with the Cylons.
*Vice President [[Gaius Baltar]] is given the presidential tour by [[Billy Keikeya]] in preparation for his assumption of the Presidency. Billy reveals a letter from Roslin, to be opened upon her death.
* The new peace movement, led by [[Royan Jahee]], gains momentum as the civilian population begins to realize that victory against the Cylons is impossible and questions the fleet's 'attack-and-retreat' tactics.
* An infusion of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon's]] fetal blood ostensibly destroys the cancerous masses in Roslin's system. Sharon's pregnancy is allowed to continue for further research.

===On Caprica Prior to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon Attack]]===
*Roslin finds out she has cancer.
*Roslin meets with President Adar to discuss a teacher's strike, and his response.
*Roslin meets with the leader of the educational alliance, [[Naylin Stans]], and strikes an agreement.
*Adar disagrees with Roslin's methods and results, and asks for her resignation.
*Roslin refuses to resign and departs for ''Galactica's'' decommissioning ceremony.
*Roslin sees [[Gaius Baltar]] with [[Number Six]] in her dream state. She then seems alarmed to see Dr. Baltar when she wakes up and tries to say something to him.

== Questions ==

*Kara Thrace is flying Mk. II vipers with Galactica's pilots again. Is she still the CAG of ''Pegasus''?
**According to interviews with RDM, Starbuck is still the ''Pegasus'' CAG. There's nothing to say she couldn't just continue flying joint missions with ''Galactica'', etc.
***Indeed, Kat remarks that Starbuck is "late" for flying the CAP, presumably the patrols are now a joint effort between the two Battlestars, possibly as an attempt to boost intraship morale after they nearly destroyed one another.
*Now that Roslin recalls Baltar's involvement with a Cylon agent on Caprica, what will she do about it?
*Will there be any consequences for Helo's near-mutiny?
*Will Roslin's attitude toward the Cylon fetus change following her recovery?
**Ronald D. Moore's podcast implies that her urgency was only prompted by her lack of faith in Baltar's ability to handle the situation. Will she be content to let to Sharon carry to term now that her survival is no longer in question?
*Roslin's recent series of Machiavellian orders (Cain's assassination in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]", and the forced abortion here) appear to have been facilitated by her belief that, given her impending death, she wouldn't have to deal with the ethical ramifications. Will this alter her relationship with Admiral Adama in the long term?
*Is security really so lax that Baltar (whom Adama does not consider especially trustworthy) would be able to smuggle one of ''Galactica's'' very few nuclear warheads off-ship?
**He didn't steal it from the armory, it's the one he used to build the Cylon detector; he's got 24 hours a day unrestricted access to it.
**Raptors are capable of detecting radiological devices. Why wasn't the bomb noticed in transit? If it's possible to effectively shield a nuclear device from detection, why don't the Cylons do this to their own warheads? Is it even necessary for the Cylons to shield their nuclear weapons given that the short time between launch and detonation of the weapon gives so little time to respond.
**Alternately, is the nuclear device actually functional?
**According to Ron Moore's podcast, the nuke storyline will be dealt with in "Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I" and "...Part II" to end the season.
**How much of the device was used for Baltar's "Cylon Detector"? Has it been dismantled to restore the explosive?
***Baltar requested a warhead because he believed he wouldn't get it and therefor have an excuse for not managing to build a detector ([[Bastille Day]]). Probably the warhead was not used for the detector and is fully functional.
*Why aren't there posters of [[Gina]] scattered all over the fleet to inform everyone of her Cylon identity, making it difficult for her to hide, let alone lead a Cylon-sympathy movement?
**Ronald Moore did admit during his podcast that this was Gina's "Clark Kent" disguise and it was very shaky the way they played it off that nobody would recognize her. Will this loose end be tied-up in some future story line when they get further into the Colonial underground story lines that the next few episodes are supposed to follow?
**On the other hand, Gina does not appear to be leaving her room on ''Cloud 9'' that much, and the humans who do see her are Cylon sympathizers anyway.
*Does Gina "remember" Number Six's memories about having a relationship with Baltar on Caprica, or even after? In "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", she did not seem to know him, as Baltar introduced himself to her and explained that he had a relationship with another Cylon copy of her model. Here, however, it sort of seems like she remembers having a physical relationship with him, but isn't "ready" to go back to that after her torture. Then again, her lines also be interpreted to mean that she really never "knew" about him before she met him on ''Pegasus''. The process of Cylon memory-transfer and systematic updating isn't very well understood at this point.
*Why is it that in the last episode, "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]", Sharon is not noticeably pregnant even when wearing a close-fitting tank top, but is now suddenly visibly quite progressed in her pregnancy?
**The same may be said of the physical condition of Gina. She now has no noticeable scars or other markings from her ordeal on Pegasus. Baltar does comment when he sees Number Six in the corridor, however, that it has been several weeks since he saw her last. This could help explain the noticeably pregnant Sharon.

== Analysis ==

* The survivor count this episode is 49,598, a net loss of six since [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]. [[Helena Cain|Admiral Cain]] and the ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' marine killed by [[Gina]] account for two. Presumably the remaining were pilots or crew lost during the [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship|attack]] on the [[Resurrection Ship]].
** This seems to be extremely good fortune, as the two battlestars engaged in a major fleet action for an extended time.
* Roslin's affair with Adar was suggested by her comment in the [[miniseries]] that "he had a way about him... you just couldn't say 'no' to him."
*Naylin Stans implies that he believes the teacher's strike is a cause worth dying for. This claim is ridiculously hyperbolic.
**The fact that President Adar was willing to use the military to enforce a back-to-work order seems to indicate that the protest must've been more serious than simple wage issues.
*Roslin's medical chart showed her name and other information such as date of birth, but this information was too blurry for viewers to read.
*Roslin's recollections of Baltar on Caprica do not match the same scene in the Miniseries. For example: Baltar and Six did walk together and kiss, and she was carrying the same case in her left hand, but they did not "make out" against a wall. Each character did end the miniseries scene by saying they were meeting someone else, however.
**Logically, it wasn't the same scene. Baltar and Six were on Caprica for a while, and they could easily have been making at a different time on the same day. The episode actually makes no attempt to establish that Roslin is seeing the same scene of Baltar and Number Six (that we the viewers saw in the Miniseries), from a different angle.
*Watching closely during the early scene when Starbuck and Kat are flying the CAP, it seems probable that actress Luciana Carro (Kat) said the real "F word" instead of the ersatz "[[Frak]]", which was then dubbed over (it's a closeup so you can tell her lips don't quite correspond to it). She actually seems to have done this in the past on many occasions.

===Serious Technical and Storyline Issues===

*Roslin's cancer cure was pure "deus ex machina." While many viewers may find Roslin's cure a necessary one as she has become a pivotal character in the show, the method of her cure leaves too many medical mistakes and is too easy of a cure.
*Cancer is not a viral disease, like AIDS or the common cold, but an invasive destruction of tissue by mutated cells, which usurp the function of healthy cells. For the cure to work the way it did would require it not only to destroy free-floating cells and metastasized tissue, but to ''repair'' any organs with healthy tissue.
**The human immune system does have some ability to suppress tumors, so a biological cure is not entirely implausible.
*As cancer is not curable here on Earth, for the show to invent a cure at the last minute may feel contrived by some.
**Some cancers are curable, especially at early stages (e.g. childhood leukemia, early cervical and types of skin cancer). Some cancers are caused by or associated with viruses (cervical cancer, Kaposi's sarcoma in AIDS). However, it would have been more plausible to have the cancer held at bay or even remitted but not necessarily cured for good.

Major plot elements that form a resolution in the show's past were generally introduced and left "in the air" for suspense over several episodes while both viewers and characters learned their significance.

*These include:
**The search for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] and the search for the [[Tomb of Athena]]
**The Experiment with Helo on Caprica (Season 1)
**Adama's survival after his shooting

The "epiphany" of Baltar's cancer cure could have been worked over at least two or three episodes while he and Cottle studied Sharon Valerii's child, which is a logical way to work a cancer cure. Baltar is a tinkerer--the miracle working viewers saw in this episode would be best left to other characters in science fiction where such "magical" inventiveness might be expected. In "Battlestar Galactica", this sudden resolution of the second major plot element in the series (we hear of Roslin's terminal cancer diagnosis when we first see Roslin in the Miniseries) that has dire ramifications for the Fleet should not be resolved with the proverbial swipe of a writer's pen in a single episode.

It should be noted that the cure might not be permanent and the cancer may return in the future (as hinted by Ronald D. Moore in the podcast for this episode).

For more analysis on this and other scientific matters of the Re-imagined Series, see the article, [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]].

Other technical issues abound in this episode.

*A nuclear warhead was smuggled from ''Galactica'' to ''Cloud Nine''. How would such a device possibly get past the various [[Radiological Alarm|radiological sensors]] throughout the Fleet? This was a plot complication used in "[[Flesh and Bone]]" as well when a copy of [[Leoben Conoy]] claimed that a nuclear device was hidden in the Fleet. The writing element was difficult to believe in that episode, and it far less believable in this episode. Both the battlestar and the [[Raptor]] on which the freed "freedom movement" member left the ship are military vessels ''designed'' to sniff out hostile devices.
**A significant dissent for Baltar's weapon contribution may be that the weapon he gave to the Demand Peace movement may not have ''any'' radioactive material inside it; Baltar gave them the warhead, but not the fissionable material inside. This reasoning has strong merit and precedence: (1) Baltar serves himself above all others. He wouldn't give away a weapon's plutonium which he is still personally accountable for, nor would he give such material away to people that could turn around and blow up the Fleet (and himself). (2) Baltar still needs the radiological material for his [[Cylon detector]] if a test is asked. (3) If [[Naturalistic science fiction|show creation principles]] hold true for this episode, conventional bomb materials (such [[G-4]] or sidearm ammunition) would NOT be detectable by radiological scanning. Either bomb types used on real-world Earth (fissionable-material bombs such as uranium or [[plutonium]] bombs, or fusion bombs such as hydrogen bombs) use conventional explosives to activate the trigger that creates a nuclear explosion. At best, the device that Baltar gave the Demand Peace movement may only be as dangerous as the makeshift explosive they used on the ''[[Daru Mozu]]''.
**Like any device, [[Radiological Alarm|radiological sensors]] are only effective when they are online. It is possible that these sensors are intelligent enough to ignore known radioactive sources, such as Galatica's existing stores of nuclear warheads.

*The explosion of the bomb on the refinery ship is powerful enough to create a sizable hole on the ship. While space is a vacuum and so shock waves do not carry as they would in an atmosphere, the Raptor that flew close to the ship and was not very far from the explosion should probably be damaged from flying debris.
**Raptors, being warships, presumably have some shielding against shrapnel.

== Notes ==

* This episode begins 189 days after the Cylon attack on the colonies. There is a 48 hour gap between Roslin's deathbed treatment and her conversation with [[Royan Jahee]]. The number 189 given in this episode, as well as "six months" in the previous one, contradict the [[Timeline (RDM)|timeline]] which ''BattlestarWiki'' has developed to track dates. See the [[Talk:Timeline (RDM)#6 months?|''Talk'' page on the Timeline]] for a full breakdown.
* [[Lee Adama]] is once again a Captain, and has been reinstated as ''Galactica's'' CAG. His authority apparently extends to the ''Pegasus'' squadrons as well. This is consistent with [[Cole Taylor]]'s authority over ''Galactica's'' air wing, when ''Pegasus'' was the flagship.
* [[Gina]] has joined the Cylon sympathizers. The other members of the resistance are apparently unaware she is a [[Cylon agent]].
* Roslin was in an intimate relationship with President Adar.
*Roslin now recalls witnessing [[Gaius Baltar]]'s affair with a copy of [[Number Six]] on Caprica, prior to the attack.
* The [[Media:Radiation Symbol.jpg|radiation symbol]] used by the colonials is different from the one used in reality, but is still easily recognizable.
*''Galactica'' has been recruiting civilians to handle "grunt work" on the hangar deck.
*Baltar was aware of the [[Demand Peace]] movement prior to this episode.
*At least three bodies can be seen being vented into space after the explosion onboard ''[[Daru Mozu]]''.
*The file photograph of Number Six is of [[Shelly Godfrey]], seen in the episode "[[Six Degrees of Separation]]".
* The nuclear device Dr. Baltar gives the resistance is the same one he was given to create his [[Cylon detector]] in "[[Bastille Day]]".
* ''Pegasus'' is barely featured in this episode, and none of her crew or interior locations are seen, except in the pre-episode recap.
*Admiral Adama continues to wear his commander's [[uniform]] with new admiral's rank insignia at his collar.
**Adama is a pragmatist who tends to eschew ceremony.
*This episode, which contained the issue of abortion, was aired on January 20th, 2 days before the anniversary of the United States Supreme Court [[Wikipedia:Roe v. Wade|Roe v. Wade]] decision of 1973.
**The issue of abortion was not, however, directly addressed—very few, if any, real-life abortions happen because of the national security implications of giving birth to a human-robot chimera.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

'''President Richard Adar:''' "One of the most interesting things about being President is that you don't have to explain yourself. To anyone."
*Roslin earlier attributed this saying to Adar in the episode "[[Flesh and Bone]]".

'''Secretary Roslin:''' "I am on my way to the ''Galactica'' to represent this administration. When I return, if you still want my job, be prepared to fight."

== Official Statements ==



* USA [[Wikipedia:Nielsen Ratings|Nielsen Ratings]]: 1.9 household rating

== Guest stars ==
*[[Colm Feore]] as [[Richard Adar|President Adar]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as Specialist [[Cally]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt.[[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmonson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmonson]]
*David Richmond-Peck as [[Naylin Stans]]
*Holly Dignard as [[Asha Janik]]
*Paul Perri as [[Royan Jahee]]
*Jennifer Kitchen as Marine

{{episode list (RDM season 2)}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Joel Anderson Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Rod Hardy]]

Talk:Resistance (episode)/Archive 1

2006-04-27T21:41:42Z

Nevfennas: /* 8 Sleepers */

You know, we already know a lot about the Colonial Fleet (obviously). I'm personally hoping that RDM might use this episode to go into the Colonial Army (which seems the obvious nucleus of any resistance forces). But then again, that's just me. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 22:44, 21 Apr 2005 (EDT)

===Boomer Death===

Additional sources have said that it is the Galactica Boomer, not the Caprica one, that dies. [http://www.livejournal.com/community/bsg_news/38768.html#cutid1 link] [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 20:45, 28 Apr 2005 (EDT)
:You know, I get that feeling that Grace Park still has a lot of life (lives?:) left in her with this show. Let's hope, somehow, that Boomer's humanity reveals itself one more time in the process of saving a former crewmate as she bites the Big One. Her psyche, however manufactured, is tortured, and I think she'd prefer to die as a human, not as a Cylon. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:51, 4 Aug 2005 (EDT)

===Kent State Shootings?===

How could you possibly compare the shooting over coffee of 4 people to the shooting of 4 students at Kent State for protesting the Vietnam War? Aside from the fact that 4 people died in both, the reason they happened isn't in ANY WAY THE SAME. Did they mention this in the podcast or something? If you cannot cite a source, this should be removed.

At the same time, I'm a little iffy on the whole Jack Ruby parallel, but I'll let it stay as it isn't as glaringly wrong.

:RDM mentions both in the podcast. Listen carefully. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:53, 11 Aug 2005 (EDT)

:: Frak! Peter beat me to it... :-) It's not my comparison. It is Toni Graphia's (the writer for this episode). Here the link: [http://www.greatlink.org/dcisV2.asp?url=http://www.greatlink.org/shownewsitem.asp?item=4678 The Great Link]. (This is where the first mention came up.)
:: Also, it is a situation ''similar'' to the Kent State shootings -- as well as the Boston "Massacre". It's really a combination of both. Whether it is liked or not, Battlestar is allegory for our times (as well as an introspective to what happened in history). It does, in my humble opinion, what Star Trek has failed to do since ''The Next Generation'' aired.

:: BTW, you could have simply used Google to research and verify the claim -- the link I provided came up on the search as well. Just FYI. :-) As for the Jack Ruby parallel, I believe it to be quite valid. Remember, there are many references to current (or historic) times. Heck, see the [[Talk:Cami]] page for an example of a parallel to American politics that was overlooked. Who would have thought? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 02:01, 11 Aug 2005 (EDT)

===8 Sleepers===
Can that number really be trusted? Isn't it more likley Boomer just gave a random number to save the chief, not knowing the real one?
For the number 8 to be correct one has to believe two things:

*Baltar is correct when he says the sleeper in Boomer knows. How should Baltar suddenly know that which such certainty? And why does the sleeper know? There is no need to know that information, but good reasons not to know it, so that information can not be taken from captured agent. Also Caprica Boomer is not seen providing information about the sleepers in later episodes, she apparently doesn't know. If she isn't holding back (and why should she?) she is not even able to describe what at least one of the still unknown models look like.

*Boomer's human side can suddenly tap her sleepers information. After not even remembering shooting Adama or any other of her sleepers actions it's quite hard to believe she can suddenly extract a specific information from it.

Unless there is another source confirming the information one should not rely on it. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 13:35, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

:We already covered this in the analysis: it is consistent with the fact that we've only seen 4 by the time of this episode, so logically there would be 8 more in terms of plot mechanics. I mean, you think there's three more Number Six's out there? Not really. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:20, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

::Oops, how did I manage to overlook the analysis part? Thanks for pointing it out. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 16:41, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

Galactica type battlestar

2006-04-27T19:32:05Z

Nevfennas: /* Overview */ correct number

:''This article discusses the original battlestar class (of which ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' is a member) of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined series]]. For information on the battlestars of the Original Series, see [[Battlestar (TOS)]]. For information on the newer ''Mercury'' class battlestars, see [[Mercury class battlestar]].''

{{Ship Data|
image= Bsg-bsg-1.jpg
| title= Battlestar (''Galactica'' type)
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= 4,000 to 5,000 (est)
| co=
| xo=
| role= Carrier / battleship hybrid
| weapons= Primary and point-defense [[KEW|Kinetic Energy Weapons]], conventional missiles, nuclear warheads, Vipers, Raptors
| status= Active (following heavy refits, with one exception)
| img=
}}

==Overview==
[[Image:Destroyed Battlestar Mini.JPG|thumb|left|Destroyed ''Galactica'' type battlestar ([[Miniseries]])]]
The '''''Galactica'' type battlestar''' is a Colonial capital ship that combines the functions of aircraft carrier and battleship. The first twelve battlestars were laid down in the early days of the [[Cylon War]], each representing one of the [[Twelve Colonies]] ([[Miniseries]]). This article concerns that original, and unnamed, class.

Following the end of the war, the original battlestars remained in service, and many newer battlestars were built. At the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], the newer [[Mercury class battlestar|''Mercury'' class]] represented the top of the line.

The original battlestars were space-going leviathans of some 4,640ft (1,414m) in length, housing at least 4 squadrons of 20 [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] space superiority fighters apiece and nuclear warheads. A fully-armed battlestar is capable of a wide range of offensive actions, while her defensive armaments ensure she is fully capable of both protecting herself from attack and engaging an enemy at close quarters.

==Layout==
The design common to ''Galactica'' and her sister ships can be broken down into two main sections: the main hull, and the twin flight pods.

=== Main Hull ===

This comprises the bulk of a battlestar and can itself be divided into three sections:

The "alligator head" contains water storage tanks ([[Water]]).

The midships area contains the pod retraction mechanisms and crossways linking the hanger pods for the transfer of equipment and personnel ([[Miniseries]]).

The stern section contains sublight engines, [[FTL]] drive coils, etc. Four of the sublight engines are in engine pods, and two more are between the pods.

=== Flight Pods ===
The flight pods are mounted on either side of the hull and contain a battlestar's [[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]] and [[Raptor|Raptors]]. During normal operations, they are extended away from the main hull. During [[FTL]] jumps, the pods are retracted against the hull, concealing their open ends and making launches and landings impossible. Each pod comprises two main decks for flight operations: the upper landing bay, which extends the full length of the pod, and the lower launch bays, which provide some 40 launch tubes per pod.{{citation needed}}

Landing approachs are made from the stern. The preferred approach is a slow run into the landing bay, prior to making a vertical landing on a defined landing area ([[Act of Contrition]]). However, in emergencies, [[Combat landing|combat landings]] can be made, in which a craft approaches at speed and makes a running landing on its undercarriage ([[Miniseries]]).

The forward end of the landing bay also serves as a launch area for Raptors and shuttles. The landing bay is large enough to accept a variety of other Colonial vessels, at least as large as "heavy" passenger ships such as ''[[Colonial Heavy 798]]'' ([[Miniseries]]). Docking collars are located throughout the upper sections of the landing bay in order to provide a pressurized connection between a docked vessel and the battlestar.{{citation needed}} The flight pods also have docking ports to dock with larger ships or stations.

The [[hangar deck]] is used for maintenance, repair, refueling, rearming, and launch operations. The hangar deck runs the length of the flight pod, but can be divided and sealed off into five sections for damage control purposes.{{citation needed}} Viper flight operations are overseen by a [[Landing Signal Officer]].

==Specifications==

===Dimensions===
[[Image:bsg-2-cvn.jpg|thumb|right|Comparison of a battlestar and ''Nimitz'']]
Hull:
* Length: 4,640ft (1.414m)
* Beam: 1,820ft (555m) (flight pod to flight pod - extended)
* Draft: 580ft (177m) (source: [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/ SciFi.com])

Flight Pods:
* Length (approx): 2,019ft (615m)
* Beam (approx): 360ft (110m)
* Draft (approx): 211ft (64m) {{ref|pods}}

An appreciation of the size of an original battlestar can be gleaned from a comparison to current Earth craft. A battlestar is over 4 times longer than a [[Wikipedia:USS Nimitz (CVN-68)|''Nimitz'']] class nuclear carrier of the US Navy. The flight pod of an original battlestar is almost twice the length of ''Nimitz'', is some 150ft (46m) wider, and is approximately as tall as the ''Nimitz'' is from waterline to the top of the tower. An original battlestar's "alligator head" is as broad as the flight deck of ''Nimitz'' is long. Each of the nacelles of an original battlestar's outer four sublight engines is large enough to contain ''Nimitz''.

===Propulsion===
[[Image:Sublight.jpg|thumb|right|''Galactica'' with all six sublight engines engaged ([[33]])]]
* at least 2 FTL drives{{ref|ftl}}
* 6 sublight engines
** 4 in individual engine pods
** 2 on main hull between engine pods
* 40 x maneuvering engines (in 10 clusters of 4 apiece){{ref|zoic}}

Despite their massive size, battlestars are extremely maneuverable and can dock with space stations such as [[Ragnar Anchorage]]. Battlestars are not designed for atmospheric flight, although their hulls can manage a tenuous upper atmospheric storm like that surrounding the gas giant [[Ragnar]] ([[Miniseries]]). A battlestar's [[FTL]] systems are capable of accurate jumps, able to place them in synchronous orbit above a relatively close planet ([[Miniseries]]) and of placing them safely in the midst of an asteroid field ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]) or a dense fleet of ships ([[Scattered]]). However, they are grossly inferior to [[Cylon]] systems in safe range ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]).

===Endurance===
Battlestars are intended to operate for long periods without re-supplying. Their water purification capabilities alone are so efficient that, barring an emergency or unforeseen event, a battlestar can operate "for several years before replenishing" ([[Water]]). They also appear capable of undertaking large-scale repairs following battle damage ([[Miniseries]], [[Water]]). They have ammunition assembly capabilities in the armory ([[Epiphanies]]) and may have small general fabrication facilities ([[Litmus]]). Vegetable stores and canned goods are kept in [[Wikipedia:Titanium|titanium]] lockers ([[Final Cut]]).

===Computer Systems===
The original battlestar vessels deliberately avoided the use of networked primary computer systems during the [[Cylon War]], as [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] forces were adept at infiltrating and subverting such systems ([[Miniseries]]).

On ''Galactica'', in the post-Cylon War era, these primary [[computers]] remained isolated by practice on order of its last pre-Holocaust commanding officer, William Adama. This no-networks practice likely saved ''Galactica'' from the fate of its sister battlestars in the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] as ''Galactica's'' no-network order meant that the [[CNP]], installed in almost all [[Colonial Fleet]] vessels at the time, could not be used aboard ''Galactica'' as the CNP was designed for use with a computer network.

In one dire instance in the early months of their exodus, ''Galactica'' networks its primary computers temporarily to aid in computation speeds for [[FTL|Jump]] calculations needed to find the missing civilian Fleet ([[Scattered]]), but it is not without consequence. One or more computers are cracked during a Cylon attack with a Cylon [[virus]], which proves resistant to removal and (weeks later) threatens the operation of the battlestar until the computers' hard drives are erased and restored from pre-Fall backup sets ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

===Armament===
[[Image:Flakfield.jpg|thumb|right|Flak field from ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> large turrets ([[Scattered]])]]
[[Image:Bscap064.jpg|thumb|right|Some of ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> point defense turrets]]
*24 large [[KEW|gun]] turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece){{ref|flak}} 
:These are mounted on the dorsal and ventral surfaces of the main hull and the ventral surface of the bow. The two guns on each turret fire in tandem. They have been shown to be quite effective against targets like [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).
*Numerous smaller turrets (mounting 2 guns apiece){{ref|small}} 
:These are mounted on the flight pods and other surfaces. Each barrel fires explosive rounds in bursts.
*Multiple nuclear warheads{{ref|nukes}} 
:The delivery system for the nuclear warheads is unknown.

===Defenses===
*Armour Hull Plating
*At least 4 squadrons of 20 [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] space superiority fighters{{ref|vipers}} 
:Even the latest Mk. VII Vipers remain compatible with this class's launch and recovery facilities.
*Numerous [[Raptor]] multi-role vehicles{{ref|raptors}}

===Crew===
''Galactica's'' crew complement prior to her scheduled decommissioning was approximately 2,800.{{ref|crew}} This figure is likely higher for a fully staffed, operational battlestar.

===Life Support===
Approximately twelve oxygen recirculation units are mounted throughout the ship, which replenish oxygen as well as remove ("scrub") carbon dioxide from the air. These devices work continuously ([[Final Cut]]).

==Sources==
# {{note|pods}} Calculated based on elevations made available by Zoic.
# {{note|ftl}} '''Tigh:''' "Engineering/Combat. Please spin up FTL drives One and Two." ([[Miniseries]])
# {{note|zoic}} Originally sourced to [[Zoic]] without explanation.
# {{note|flak}} These have been referred to as railguns by some fan sources, but there is substantial evidence to the contrary. See [[Railgun]] for more.
# {{note|small}} Unsourced figures have ranged from 252 to 512. According to the BSG Magazine, the number is 504.
#{{note|nukes}} As of the episode "[[Bastille Day]]", ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' was equipped with five nuclear warheads. This may be lower than the typical number, since ''Galactica'' was in the process of being decommissioned and had already had most of its ammunition removed. If this is the case, we must conclude that ''Galactica'' was unable to reload its supply of nuclear arms at [[Ragnar Anchorage]] (a sensible proposition, given the ease with which purported arms smuggler [[Leoben Conoy]] was able to gain access to the facility).
# {{note|vipers}}After the destruction of 20 Vipers during the Cylon Attack, ''Galactica'' was still able to muster a 40-Viper strong defensive screen by combining their remaining squadron of Mk. VII vipers with a full squadron of Mk. II vipers from a museum exhibit in the starboard flight pod. This suggests that ''Galactica'', with a single operational flight pod, was fielding two squadrons from it, and that when fully operational it could have fielded an additional two squadrons from the starboard pod as well.
# {{note|raptors}}At the time of the Cylon Attack, ''Galactica'' was apparently equipped with at least eight. See [[Galactica (RDM)#endnote_raptors|Galactica Raptor tally]] for a running count.
# {{note|crew}} See [[Galactica (RDM)#endnote_originalcrew|Galactica crew count]].

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Colonial Craft]][[Category:Colonial Military]] [[Category:RDM]] [[Category:Technology]] [[Category:Battlestars]]

Talk:Resistance (episode)/Archive 1

2006-04-27T18:37:23Z

Nevfennas: /* 8 Sleepers */ not of course

Talk:Resistance (episode)/Archive 1

2006-04-27T18:36:14Z

Nevfennas: /* 8 Sleepers */

You know, we already know a lot about the Colonial Fleet (obviously). I'm personally hoping that RDM might use this episode to go into the Colonial Army (which seems the obvious nucleus of any resistance forces). But then again, that's just me. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 22:44, 21 Apr 2005 (EDT)

===Boomer Death===

Additional sources have said that it is the Galactica Boomer, not the Caprica one, that dies. [http://www.livejournal.com/community/bsg_news/38768.html#cutid1 link] [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 20:45, 28 Apr 2005 (EDT)
:You know, I get that feeling that Grace Park still has a lot of life (lives?:) left in her with this show. Let's hope, somehow, that Boomer's humanity reveals itself one more time in the process of saving a former crewmate as she bites the Big One. Her psyche, however manufactured, is tortured, and I think she'd prefer to die as a human, not as a Cylon. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:51, 4 Aug 2005 (EDT)

===Kent State Shootings?===

How could you possibly compare the shooting over coffee of 4 people to the shooting of 4 students at Kent State for protesting the Vietnam War? Aside from the fact that 4 people died in both, the reason they happened isn't in ANY WAY THE SAME. Did they mention this in the podcast or something? If you cannot cite a source, this should be removed.

At the same time, I'm a little iffy on the whole Jack Ruby parallel, but I'll let it stay as it isn't as glaringly wrong.

:RDM mentions both in the podcast. Listen carefully. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:53, 11 Aug 2005 (EDT)

:: Frak! Peter beat me to it... :-) It's not my comparison. It is Toni Graphia's (the writer for this episode). Here the link: [http://www.greatlink.org/dcisV2.asp?url=http://www.greatlink.org/shownewsitem.asp?item=4678 The Great Link]. (This is where the first mention came up.)
:: Also, it is a situation ''similar'' to the Kent State shootings -- as well as the Boston "Massacre". It's really a combination of both. Whether it is liked or not, Battlestar is allegory for our times (as well as an introspective to what happened in history). It does, in my humble opinion, what Star Trek has failed to do since ''The Next Generation'' aired.

:: BTW, you could have simply used Google to research and verify the claim -- the link I provided came up on the search as well. Just FYI. :-) As for the Jack Ruby parallel, I believe it to be quite valid. Remember, there are many references to current (or historic) times. Heck, see the [[Talk:Cami]] page for an example of a parallel to American politics that was overlooked. Who would have thought? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 02:01, 11 Aug 2005 (EDT)

===8 Sleepers===
Can that number really be trusted? Isn't it more likley Boomer just gave a random number to save the chief, not knowing the real one?
For the number 8 to be correct one has to believe two things:

*Baltar is correct when he says the sleeper in Boomer knows. How should Baltar suddenly know that which such certainty? And why does the sleeper know? There is no need to know that information, but good reasons not to know it, so that information can not be taken from captured agent. Also Caprica Boomer is not seen providing information about the sleepers in later episodes, she apparently doesn't know. If she isn't holding back (and why should she?) she is not even able to describe what at least one of the still unknown models look like.

*Boomer's human side can suddenly tap her sleepers information. After not even remembering shooting Adama or any other of her sleepers actions it's quite hard to believe she can suddenly extract a specific information from it.

Unless there is another source confirming the information one should rely on it. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 13:35, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Resistance (episode)/Archive 1

2006-04-27T18:35:43Z

Nevfennas: /* 8 Sleepers */

You know, we already know a lot about the Colonial Fleet (obviously). I'm personally hoping that RDM might use this episode to go into the Colonial Army (which seems the obvious nucleus of any resistance forces). But then again, that's just me. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 22:44, 21 Apr 2005 (EDT)

===Boomer Death===

Additional sources have said that it is the Galactica Boomer, not the Caprica one, that dies. [http://www.livejournal.com/community/bsg_news/38768.html#cutid1 link] [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 20:45, 28 Apr 2005 (EDT)
:You know, I get that feeling that Grace Park still has a lot of life (lives?:) left in her with this show. Let's hope, somehow, that Boomer's humanity reveals itself one more time in the process of saving a former crewmate as she bites the Big One. Her psyche, however manufactured, is tortured, and I think she'd prefer to die as a human, not as a Cylon. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:51, 4 Aug 2005 (EDT)

===Kent State Shootings?===

How could you possibly compare the shooting over coffee of 4 people to the shooting of 4 students at Kent State for protesting the Vietnam War? Aside from the fact that 4 people died in both, the reason they happened isn't in ANY WAY THE SAME. Did they mention this in the podcast or something? If you cannot cite a source, this should be removed.

At the same time, I'm a little iffy on the whole Jack Ruby parallel, but I'll let it stay as it isn't as glaringly wrong.

:RDM mentions both in the podcast. Listen carefully. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:53, 11 Aug 2005 (EDT)

:: Frak! Peter beat me to it... :-) It's not my comparison. It is Toni Graphia's (the writer for this episode). Here the link: [http://www.greatlink.org/dcisV2.asp?url=http://www.greatlink.org/shownewsitem.asp?item=4678 The Great Link]. (This is where the first mention came up.)
:: Also, it is a situation ''similar'' to the Kent State shootings -- as well as the Boston "Massacre". It's really a combination of both. Whether it is liked or not, Battlestar is allegory for our times (as well as an introspective to what happened in history). It does, in my humble opinion, what Star Trek has failed to do since ''The Next Generation'' aired.

:: BTW, you could have simply used Google to research and verify the claim -- the link I provided came up on the search as well. Just FYI. :-) As for the Jack Ruby parallel, I believe it to be quite valid. Remember, there are many references to current (or historic) times. Heck, see the [[Talk:Cami]] page for an example of a parallel to American politics that was overlooked. Who would have thought? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 02:01, 11 Aug 2005 (EDT)

===8 Sleepers===
Can that number really be trusted? Isn't it more likly Boomer just gave a random number to save the chief, not knowing the real one?
For the number 8 to be correct one has to believe two things:

*Baltar is correct when he says the sleeper in Boomer knows. How should Baltar suddenly know that which such certainty? And why does the sleeper know? There is no need to know that information, but good reasons not to know it, so that information can not be taken from captured agent. Also Caprica Boomer is not seen providing information about the sleepers in later episodes, she apparently doesn't know. If she isn't holding back (and why should she?) she is not even able to describe what at least one of the still unknown models look like.

*Boomer's human side can suddenly tap her sleepers information. After not even remembering shooting Adama or any other of her sleepers actions it's quite hard to believe she can suddenly extract a specific information from it.

Unless there is another source confirming the information one should rely on it. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 13:35, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Resistance (episode)/Archive 1

2006-04-27T18:35:25Z

Nevfennas:

You know, we already know a lot about the Colonial Fleet (obviously). I'm personally hoping that RDM might use this episode to go into the Colonial Army (which seems the obvious nucleus of any resistance forces). But then again, that's just me. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 22:44, 21 Apr 2005 (EDT)

===Boomer Death===

Additional sources have said that it is the Galactica Boomer, not the Caprica one, that dies. [http://www.livejournal.com/community/bsg_news/38768.html#cutid1 link] [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 20:45, 28 Apr 2005 (EDT)
:You know, I get that feeling that Grace Park still has a lot of life (lives?:) left in her with this show. Let's hope, somehow, that Boomer's humanity reveals itself one more time in the process of saving a former crewmate as she bites the Big One. Her psyche, however manufactured, is tortured, and I think she'd prefer to die as a human, not as a Cylon. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:51, 4 Aug 2005 (EDT)

===Kent State Shootings?===

How could you possibly compare the shooting over coffee of 4 people to the shooting of 4 students at Kent State for protesting the Vietnam War? Aside from the fact that 4 people died in both, the reason they happened isn't in ANY WAY THE SAME. Did they mention this in the podcast or something? If you cannot cite a source, this should be removed.

At the same time, I'm a little iffy on the whole Jack Ruby parallel, but I'll let it stay as it isn't as glaringly wrong.

:RDM mentions both in the podcast. Listen carefully. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:53, 11 Aug 2005 (EDT)

:: Frak! Peter beat me to it... :-) It's not my comparison. It is Toni Graphia's (the writer for this episode). Here the link: [http://www.greatlink.org/dcisV2.asp?url=http://www.greatlink.org/shownewsitem.asp?item=4678 The Great Link]. (This is where the first mention came up.)
:: Also, it is a situation ''similar'' to the Kent State shootings -- as well as the Boston "Massacre". It's really a combination of both. Whether it is liked or not, Battlestar is allegory for our times (as well as an introspective to what happened in history). It does, in my humble opinion, what Star Trek has failed to do since ''The Next Generation'' aired.

:: BTW, you could have simply used Google to research and verify the claim -- the link I provided came up on the search as well. Just FYI. :-) As for the Jack Ruby parallel, I believe it to be quite valid. Remember, there are many references to current (or historic) times. Heck, see the [[Talk:Cami]] page for an example of a parallel to American politics that was overlooked. Who would have thought? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 02:01, 11 Aug 2005 (EDT)

===8 Sleepers===
Can that number really be trusted? Isn't it more likly Boomer just gave a random number to save the chief, not knowing the real one?
For the number 8 to be correct one has to believe two things:

*Baltar is correct when he says the sleeper in Boomer knows. How should Baltar suddenly know that which such certainty? And why does the sleeper know? There is no need to know that information, but good reasons not to know it, so that information can not be taken from captured agent. Also Caprica Boomer is not seen providing information about the sleepers in later episodes, she apparently doesn't know. If she isn't holding back (and why should she?) she is not even able to describe what at least one of the still unknown models look like.

*Boomer human side can suddenly tap her sleepers information. After not even remembering shooting Adama or any other of her sleepers actions it's quite hard to believe she can suddenly extract a specific information from it.

Unless there is another source confirming the information one should rely on it. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 13:35, 27 April 2006 (CDT)

Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I

2006-04-26T18:01:03Z

Nevfennas: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data|
Image =[[Image:Home_pt1-Kobol.jpg|300px]]
| Title=Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I
| Series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| Season=[[Season 1 (2004-05)|1]]
| Episode=12
| Guests=
| Writer=[[Ronald D. Moore]]
| Story=[[David Eick]]
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=1.12
| Rating=
| US Airdate=March 25 2005
| UK Airdate=January 17 2005
| DVD=March 28 2005 (UK) September 20 2005 (US)
| Population=
| Prev=[[Colonial Day]]
| Next=[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''Battlestar ''Galactica'' discovers Kobol, and a chain of events are set in motion that threatens to change everything.''

== Summary ==
* Following the [[Colonial Day]] celebrations, [[Gaius Baltar]] finally beds [[Kara Thrace|Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]], but as they make love, she cries out for [[Lee Adama]], shattering Baltar's mood.
* Stricken by her apparent rejection of him in their coupling, Baltar in turn comes close to rejecting [[Number Six|Six]] and find it impossible to concentrate on anything – including his duties as Vice President.
* Elsewhere on ship, [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] attempts to take her own life, but breaks down in tears before she can shoot herself. She is called to the Ready Room for a pre-flight briefing.
* [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] discovers that her cancer treatment is not going well. Her cancer has spread to her lymphatic system, giving her perhaps 6 months to live
* Baltar verbally fences with Lee Adama and is somewhat insulting to Thrace, tipping Lee off that the doctor has slept with Thrace. Later, still thinking about Thrace, Baltar cracks in front of Roslin.
* Following a recon mission, Boomer and [[Crashdown]] return to ''[[Galactica]]'' with evidence they have stumbled upon [[Kobol]].
* Determined to have things out with Thrace, Lee confronts her in the [[Hangar Deck]], and the two come to blows. Thrace realizes that her actions with Baltar have hurt Lee Adama.
* Reviewing the evidence returned by Boomer and Crashdown, Roslin has a vision which [[Elosha]] confirms to be the [[City of the Gods]] on Kobol.
* Roslin has two further visions – the [[Arrow of Apollo]] and the [[Tomb of Athena]], and accepts the scriptures as fact.
* Boomer, still confused, attempts to take her own life – “encouraged” by Baltar in defiance of Six.
* When [[William Adama|Adama]] reviews the evidence, he orders an extensive surface survey of the planet, seeing it as an opportunity for them to settle. Warned he should get off ''Galactica'' by Six, Baltar assigns himself to the survey.
* Roslin tries to convince Adama that Kobol will point the way to [[Earth]], but they must use the captured [[Cylon Raider]] to return to [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] and retrieve the Arrow of Apollo.
* Three Raptors depart ''Galactica'' for Kobol, but on arrival they find themselves in the midst of a Cylon force of Raiders – and a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]].
* One Raptor is destroyed, and one - carrying Baltar – crash-lands on Kobol.
* Before a rescue mission can be launched, the basestar must be taken out – and Starbuck hatches a plan to do just this using the captured Raider.
* Hearing this, Roslin meets with Starbuck and convinces her into going to Caprica instead to retrieve the Arrow, by telling her that Adama does not actually know where Earth is.
[[Image:bsg-klg1-1.jpg|thumb|right|Adama studies ancient documents on Kobol. (c) Universal]]
===On Caprica===
* [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], alone and on the run, encounters “his” [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Valerii]]. He shoots and wounds her. Unable to kill her outright, he takes her with him.
* When Valerii tries to explain things to him, Helo informs her that all she is to him is a way off the planet.

== Summary from SciFi.com ==
While flying a supply patrol, Crashdown and Sharon Valerii discover a bountiful planet that can support human life. Indeed, it might be Kobol, the legendary "home of the gods." The discovery prompts Commander Adama to send a ground team to investigate; it also gives new life to President Roslin's belief that she is a tool of destiny and that this discovery, like her rapidly spreading cancer, is part of an ancient prophecy.

However, things are not well on the Galactica. Gaius Baltar, the new vice-president, has a one-night stand with Kara Thrace and finds himself at odds with both Lee Adama and a deeply jealous Number Six.

Meanwhile, both Cylon Sharons struggle with their dual natures. On Galactica, she contemplates suicide when she realizes her programming will lead her to betray her comrades; on Caprica, she tries to convince Helo that her love for him is stronger than her loyalty to the Cylons.

After a Raptor carrying Vice-President Baltar is shot down over Kobol, Commander Adama must find a way to destroy the Cylon basestar that guards the planet before he can send a rescue team. He orders Kara to fly a dangerous mission against the basestar, using the captured Cylon Raider — but Kara makes an unauthorized Jump home to Caprica instead, abandoning Adama and the stranded Raptor crew.
--This section ©2005, [http://www.scifi.com SCI FI]. All rights reserved.

== Questions ==
* Why did the Thirteen Tribes leave [[Kobol]]?
**In a deleted scene, Col. Tigh asks [[Elosha]] this same question, and she says that one God decided that he should be raised up above all others, and rebelled, and this triggered the cataclysm that drove humans off of Kobol.
***Could this be a reference to the beginning of the Cylon's religion and their "one true God"?
**In another deleted scene from season 2's "[[Fragged]]", Roslin says that the Sacred Scrolls don't say that humanity was exiled from Kobol, but rather "there was some sort of battle amongst the Gods, and when it was over we ''chose'' to leave".
* What happened to the gods who lived on Kobol “with man”?
* Did the gods remain on Kobol after humanity left?
* Given the similarities with the [[Greek Gods|Greek Pantheon]], did the gods decide to follow the 13th tribe to Earth, thus establishing the myths of the Olympian gods?
* Do the Cylons consider Kobol as their spiritual home as well (“The birthplace of us all” – [[Leoben Conoy]], "[[Flesh and Bone]]")?
* Did Boomer's Cylon personality interfere in her attempt at suicide, resulting in her wounding herself, or did her human personality lack the conviction of the act, resulting in the wound?
* Given that [[Cylon Transponder]]s were aboard ''Galactica'', why did the Cylons make such an attempt to destroy ''Galactica'' during their first attack - up to and including deploying nuclear weapons against her? Was the device inactive - if so, why was it in [[CIC]] in the first place ([[Miniseries]])?
**The transponder was probably there so the Cylon Raiders carrying nuclear missiles could target its location in the Mini-Series. Even if ''Galactica'' survived, the transponders would still allow the battlestar to be tracked.

== Analysis ==

The finest episode of "Battlestar Galactica" to air so far; so finely tuned that it barely misses a beat. This is also the first episode where music is used to its most evocative effect, further lifting the story into the realm of outstanding drama.

From the outset the audience knows it is in for something special; the re-cap of previous episodes so tightly defined, it for once deals with a single strand of the story to date: the Cylons, only opening at the end to reveal the motivating thrust to this episode: the finding of Kobol.

This leads into one of the most beautifully-constructed teasers witnessed in television drama. Evocative, moving – and entirely minimalist in terms of dialogue -, it really is proof that frequently, less really is more. Why waste time with words, when actions and expressions speak so much louder, and music can imbue the underlying emotions.

"Battlestar Galactica" has not always fared well where music is concerned. The opening theme is one that is either liked or disliked, with little middle ground; incidental music in previous episodes has been sporadic in its ability to act – as music should – as the aural scenery that helps bring the drama to life. Sometimes it has worked, in others – notably the otherwise brilliant The Hand of God – it has been so out of keeping with the atmosphere of the show, it has detracted from the overall enjoyment of the episode.

Here, however, the music is perfect – and it is interesting to see that in immersing the audience into the subtleties of the teaser, the episode uses a “classical” approach through the use of an orchestral sound, rather than the more tribal beats common to Battlestar Galactica.

And the result is remarkable. Utilising the string section in the foreground – violins and cellos slowly building a theme to which is added further instruments as new revelations are made concerning the moods and responses of the various characters; providing an aural tapestry through which everything is linked; the bringing together and the falling apart of relationships; the expression of needs, and emotions.

The music perfectly underpins one of the main thrusts of the teaser: a demonstration of how alive the humans are; how driven by passion and instinct. It was in “Flesh and Bone” that Doral stated his envy of a human’s ability to experience such extremes. Now we’re cleverly shown everything the Cylon’s aspire to experience themselves: passions unbounded by the need for constraint, given form in both the boxing and in Starbuck’s fantasy view of her coupling with Baltar (“Lee”).

Turning to the boxing, it is evident more is going on here than a simple father-and-son sparring match. Aggression and frustration are being dealt with here – as witnessed by the clear satisfaction Lee gets from striking and hurting his father. When he lands his first big punch, he asks, “Are you OK?” not out of concern, but out of satisfaction; it could have so easily been followed by, “Because there’s plenty more where that came from.” Even so, his frustrations are released guardedly, whereas his father’s response is not. He allows himself to enjoy striking his son, giving his instincts the freedom of expression they need.

Another fascinating element of the teaser is the manner in which Boomer’s situation is offset with Valerii on Caprica. As Boomer takes her handgun and prepares to shoot herself, Valerii finds Helo, and tells him to shoot her. Both of them have reached the same point in their existence, both of them because of their entirely human responses – in Boomer’s case fear and in Valerii’s the anguish of lost love. Fear and love – perhaps the strongest of emotions we can experience; and both have driven these instances of Valerii to despair. In doing so, these emotions reveal both the “flaw” within the Valerii model that makes it “weak” in Six’s eyes while also demonstrating the Cylon experiment has succeeded – perhaps in a way the Cylons could not have conceived.

The rest of the episode is no less rich. Roslin’s acceptance of her role and the reality of the scriptures, though sudden, is entirely in keeping with all that has been shown in recent episodes. The issues arising from this are both immediate and long-term. She has already subverted the strike against the Cylon basestar – putting the entire fleet at risk, as well as the lives of some 8-10 members of the Galactica’s crew stranded on Kobol. Whether Adama be willing to let this go if/when Starbuck returns with the Arrow of Apollo remains to be seen. However, as Billy points out, if she continues to act upon what he sees (and no doubt others will believe) as “drug-induced hallucinations”, then the stability of the entire government within the fleet will be put at risk – possibly well before the scheduled elections.

In a similar way, the flare-up of jealousy and anger between Lee and Kara is entirely in keeping with recent events: their potential attraction has been seen in brief flashes throughout, while their frustrations with one another have been witnessed through the likes of “Act of Contrition” and most recently, “The Hand of God”. Beyond that, they have a history together that bonds them from their time at flight school, where Zak Adama initially brought them together as friends through to Lee’s arrival aboard the Galactica. Thus, Lee’s very evident attraction to her during the Colonial Day party, is fully in keeping with what we have seen: but she ends up bedding Baltar.

While this latter point is somewhat surprising given the degree of open contempt she has shown him of late (“Bastille Day”, “Litmus”, “Secrets and Lies”), given the availability of drinks aboard the “Cloud Nine” their coupling could be put down to the effects of alcohol. Certainly, Baltar has never hidden his lust for Starbuck, and it is hard to see him missing the opportunity to take advantage of his new-found position as Vice President and the fact that Six has given her permission to sleep with whoever he likes.

Why did she do it? Probably because, despite his attraction to her, and her to him (hence her orgasm-induced cry) Kara sees Lee as unobtainable – possibly because of that same history they share. So in her inebriation, she opts for the closest available target – Baltar. Whatever the reason, her actions are more than enough to both become the perfect catalyst for Baltar’s conflicts with Six and his apparent desire to confound her (as evidenced through his conversation with Boomer), and to act as a catalyst to bring Lee’s jealousy to the surface.

Baltar’s time with Boomer is interesting. Taking heed of Six’s warning concerning the danger the Galactica while face and acting in defiance of her mocking comments in the bunkroom itself, he acts in defiance of her, gently bringing Boomer to the point where she can carry out the attempt on her own life. Through it all, Six is obviously confused by his actions. That Boomer’s Cylon persona more than likely stopped her killing herself, the fact that Baltar was willing to act as he does has a major impact on Six – hence her more gentle reminder to him when the survey of Kobol is being planned.

The episode also can’t be faulted for the standard of performance turned in. Across the board all of the ensemble cast put in sterling performances that serve to ratchet-up “Kobol’s Last Gleaming Part 1” so it stands head and shoulders above what has already been a remarkable first season run. Thus, to single any individual member of the cast out at the expense of the others would be somewhat unfair; everyone appearing on-screen – be it for 40 minutes or 4 – makes their character utterly engrossing to watch.

The final elements that round-out this episode are the writing and direction. With this story, Eick and Moore demonstrate they have a clear vision for where the series will hopefully go (allowing for future renewals), the territories it may cover and the ways in which the various threads can be intertwined and then neatly separated again to build a complex picture of humanity and circumstance. Furthermore, in ramping-up the Roslin arc, they are simultaneously bringing some of the threads that have formed the fabric of this first season to an end, while opening new potential avenues for exploration in future seasons.

Having veteran BSG director Rymer (Mini-Series, “33”) helm this episode is also a smart move. In both the mini and “33”, Rymer firmly established the look and feel of the finished Galactica product, and here he demonstrates his finesse with the docu-drama style the production has striven for; using the technique to draw the audience into the drama almost as if they are themselves participants.

== Notes ==
*It is 3 days since the events of [[Colonial Day]].
*There are now 47,897 survivors in the fleet, a net loss of 1 since "Colonial Day".
*[[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]] is beginning to run short of supplies.
*Humans departed Kobol some 2,000 years prior to the setting of the series .
*Kobol is a place where the “gods and man lived together in paradise”.
*Some of the "gods" appear to be buried on Kobol (The [[Tomb of Athena]]).
*[[Socinus]] has been released from the brig and returned to duty.
*The "R&D TV Animation" skit during the credits consists of David Eick transforming Ron Moore into Martha Stewart by shooting lightning from his fingers.

===Blooper Moments===
When Sharon shoots herself, she is holding an automatic pistol, but the sound was that of the larger sidearms carried by pilots when flying off-ship missions (only slightly suppressed), rather than the report of a "normal" pistol being fired.

===Nods===
The [[Cylon Transponder]] is an indirect nod to [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|the original series]], in which [[Apollo (TOS)|Apollo]] and [[Starbuck (TOS)|Starbuck]] use an IFF-type device to identify their [[Cylon Raider#Original Series Raider|Raider]] to Colonial forces when they launch an attack on a Cylon Basestar ([[The Hand of God (TOS)]]).

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''In the bunk room, when Gaius Baltar interrupts Sharon Valeri’s second attempt at suicide:''
:Sharon Valeri: ''(as she pretends to be cleaning her hand gun)'' What’s going on?
:Gaius Baltar: ''(cautiously)'' Well, I was going to ask you the same question. Actually, I was looking for Lieutenant Thrace but...sometimes it’s good to...talk these things over.
:Number Six: ''(feigning pity)'' Deep down she knows she’s a Cylon, but her conscious mind just won’t accept it.
:Sharon Valeri: Sometimes I have these...dark thoughts.
:Gaius Baltar: What kind of dark thoughts?
:Number Six: Her model is weak, always has been. But in the end she’ll carry out her mission.
:Sharon Valeri: I don’t know, but I’m afraid I’m going to hurt someone. I feel like I ought to be stopped.
:Number Six: ''(moving to the other side of Boomer)'' She can’t be stopped. She’s a Cylon. You can’t help her, Gaius...but you could probably sleep with her. (Baltar reacts with a look of disgust at Six.) That’s what you want, right?
:Gaius Baltar: ''(to Boomer)'' I’m not sure why...sometimes...we must embrace that which opens up for us.
:Sharon Valeri: Embrace?
:Gaius Baltar: Life can be a curse as well as a blessing. (his voice becomes more intense) You will believe me when I tell you: there are far worse things than death in this world...
:Sharon Valeri: So you’re saying…?
:Gaius Baltar: No. No, no, no. What I say...is meaningless. Listen to your heart. Embrace that which you know to be the right decision.
:''(They look at each other as Six regards Baltar with a look of complete incomprehension, then Baltar stands and kisses Boomer on the forehead before walking out of the bunkroom. Seconds later there is the sound of a single gunshot from inside.)''

* ''In ''Galactica's'' landing bay:''
:Lee Adama: Going hunting?
:Kara Thrace: ''(loading ammunition into the Cylon Raider)'' I'm manning the gunnery for the Jump test tomorrow. See if our boy here can shoot anything with our ammo.
:Lee Adama: So it's a boy now.
:Kara Thrace: I changed my mind.
:Lee Adama: You ever wonder why everyone else calls it a "she", but to you, it's a "he"?
:Kara Thrace: That's fascinating, Lee. You should write a paper.
:Lee Adama: Well, that's not really my style. I'm not as smart as...say, Doctor Baltar. How is the Vice President, by the way?
:Kara Thrace: I don't know. Haven't seen him.
:Lee Adama: ''(thinks for a second)'' So...he's a love-them and leave-them kind of guy, I guess.
:Kara Thrace: I guess.
:Lee Adama: Ships just pass in the night...
:Kara Thrace: Yep.
:Lee Adama: Didn't mean a thing.
:Kara Thrace: No.
:Lee Adama: You were just bored, looking for something to do. So frakking the Vice President of the Colonies seemed like a great waste of time!
:Kara Thrace: Do you want something from me?
:Lee Adama: Not a thing-
:Kara Thrace: -because I don't owe you anything.
:Lee Adama: No, you don't owe me anything. because I'm just a CAG, and you're just a pilot. A pilot who can't keep her pants on! Oh, it's just like old times, Kara. Like when you got drunk and you couldn't keep your hands off the Major-
:''(Kara turns around and swings a punch at Lee, but Lee returns the favor by punching Kara in the eye)''
:Lee Adama: Why'd you do it, Kara? Just tell me why.
:Kara Thrace: Because I'm a screwup, Lee. Try to keep that in mind.

* ''As Kara Thrace pilots the Cylon Raider in a weapons test, she contacts Commander Adama:''
:Commander Adama: ''(to Kara)'' Go ahead.
:Kara Thrace: I believed you. Believed in Earth.
:Commander Adama: What are you doing, Starbuck?
:Kara Thrace: Bringing home the cat, sir.
:Commander Adama: We can talk about this.
:Kara Thrace: No, I don't think so.
:Commander Adama: I want you to remember one thing. I do not regret anything that I did. Be sure that whatever you're going to do, you don't regret it later. Do you understand me?
:Kara Thrace: I guess we'll find out. ''(Starbuck uses the FTL computer to Jump to Caprica)''
:Lee Adama: ''Galactica'', Apollo. Starbuck has jumped away. Repeat, Starbuck has jumped away.
:Colonel Tigh: She wasn't scheduled for a Jump test! Where the hell did she go?
:Commander Adama: Home.

== Official Statements ==

=== Regarding Lack of Definitive Information Regarding [[Kobol]] ===
{{from_RDM_blog}}

:"In the last two episodes it is noted by the priestess that the thirteen tribes left [[Kobol]] about "2000 years ago" and the initial estimate of the age of the ruins is the same, but nothing is concrete of course. This is where I have a problem: They were obviously a star faring civilization to leave Kobol to being with. To do so requires information technology. Why is their history of that time so sketchy and lacking of concrete records? Yes it was 2000 years in the past but come on, it's not like they only had [[Wikipedia:papyrus|papyrus]] to write on. "

:I've been presupposing some kind of cataclysm or crisis that occurred soon after mankind settled on the 12 worlds which either wiped out the knowledge base or had it deliberately destroyed for some reason. This doesn't seem that implausible when one considers that a tremendous amount of knowledge from the Greco-Roman tradition was lost after the fall of the [[Wikipedia:Roman Empire|Roman Empire]] and plunged the western world into the so called [[Wikipedia:Dark Ages|Dark Ages]]. Clearly, the Colonials did not fall all the way back to papyrus, and they do in fact, know that they are descendants of refugees from Kobol, hence the term "[[Colonies]]." They must have possessed star-faring technology at the time of the exodus, but I don't know how far we'll go into this specific backstory in the series, however.

=== Other Statements ===

* ''[[Jamie Bamber]] talks about his response to the argument held between [[Kara Thrace]] and [[Lee Adama]] in this episode:''

: It's sort of an explosion of jealousy that is a complete surprise to him because I don't think he's ... he's not fully aware of what he feels. There's something quite like a gut reaction that really was exciting to play. It was a surprise to me. [http://gateworld.net/galactica/articles/bamber01.shtml]

== Guest stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as Specialist [[Cally]]
*[[Lorena Gale]] as [[Elosha]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Alonso+Oyarzun Alonso Oyarzun] as Specialist [[Socinus]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Stephen+Spender Stephen Spender] as Pilot
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+James+Bell James Bell] as [[ECO]]

== Statistics ==


== External Links ==
[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/112/ "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I"] at scifi.com

{{Episode List}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]
[[Category:Episodes with story by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

The Hand of God (RDM)

2006-04-26T17:50:29Z

Nevfennas: /* Notes */

:''This article details an episode of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined series]]. For information on the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|original series]] episode of the same name, see [[The Hand of God (TOS)]].''

{{Episode Data|
Image =[[Image:HandofGod.jpg|300px]]
| Title=The Hand of God
| Series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| Season=[[Season 1 (2004-05)|1]]
| Episode=10
| Guests=
| Writer=[[David Weddle]] & [[Bradley Thompson]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Jeff Woolnough]]
| Production=1.10
| Rating=
| US Airdate=March 11 2005
| UK Airdate=January 3 2005
| DVD=March 28 2005 (UK) September 20 2005 (US)
| Population=47,898
| Prev=[[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down|Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]
| Next=[[Colonial Day]]
}}

== Overview ==

: ''With the Fleet short of [[tylium|fuel]], ''[[Galactica]]'' launches a daring attack on a Cylon base.''

== Summary ==
* [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]] is almost out of fuel, and ''[[Galactica]]'' has [[Raptor|Raptors]] out scouting nearby star systems to find tylium ore - if they don't, the fleet can make two more [[FTL|Jumps]] at best
* Aboard one of the Raptors, [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] and [[Crashdown]] find more than tylium – they find an asteroid full of the ore, complete with a Cylon base and refinery
* Faced with hoping to locate tylium elsewhere using their remaining supplies of fuel, or taking the asteroid from the Cylons, [[William Adama|Adama]] opts to take the asteroid
* On ''[[Colonial One]]'', [[Laura Roslin]] reveals she is being affected by taking [[Chamalla]] extract to [[Elosha]] – her dreams about [[Leoben Conoy]] which occurred immediately before he was found on the ''[[Gemenon Traveler]]'' ([[Flesh and Bone]]), and her hallucination about snakes
* On hearing about the snakes, Elosha reveals an ancient text written by [[Pythia]] 3,600 years ago concerning the exodus of humankind
* [[Saul Tigh]] and [[Lee Adama]] draw up an initial plan to take the asteroid, but [[Kara Thrace]] comes up with an unconventional idea to accomplish the mission
* Plans are drawn up for the attack on the Cylon base on the asteroid, and [[Gaius Baltar]] is involved in preparations. In doing so he completes his transition into “an instrument of God” as described by [[Number Six]]
* The attack is launched – at first everything appears to go wrong; but as the situation unfolds, it turns out that there is a plan-within-a-plan (courtesy of Thrace's unconventional thinking). Adama doesn’t trust anyone other than his immediate officers with the full details of the action - not even Roslin.
* Even so, things do not go well until, in a daring maneuver, Lee Adama manages to destroy the Cylon base on the asteroid, and win the supplies of tylium for the Fleet.
[[Image:bsg-1-10.jpg|thumb|Adama and staff plan the attack.]]
=== On Caprica: ===
*[[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Valerii]] are hiding-out on a farm on their way to [[Delphi]]
*When Helo offers to fix a meal, Valerii is uncharacteristically sick, leading them to try and settle down for some sleep
*They are interrupted by the arrival of a troop of [[Cylon Centurion]]s - lead by another copy of Six.
*Forcing a stunned Helo into action - he cannot believe the woman he saw Valerii kill is coming after them - Valerii forces him back on the run

== Summary from SciFi.com ==
As its fuel supply dwindles, the fleet must seek out a new supply of tylium ore or risk becoming sitting ducks to any Cylon attack. A recon patrol finds an asteroid full of the fuel, but there's a catch — the Cylons have found it first and established a heavily guarded refining plant.

Kara devises a plan: Jump three decoy ships near the asteroid; when the Cylons attack, destroy their bases, leaving them stranded in space. It's a bold tactic, but it will take luck, skill and daring to pull it off.

Meanwhile, President Roslin begins to hallucinate as a result of the Chamalla she's taking to combat her breast cancer. When she consults Elosha, a priestess who has used Chamalla to induce visions, she learns that her circumstances fulfill a 3,600-year-old prophecy.

On Cylon-occupied Caprica, Sharon and Helo's flight from the Cylon overseers suddenly becomes more complicated when Sharon discovers she's pregnant.
--This section ©2005, [http://www.scifi.com SCI FI]. All rights reserved.

== Questions ==

* Why did [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] order the fighters to pursue the fleeing [[Cylon Raiders]], instead of securing the area? One possibility for attacking the remaining fighters to prevent them from getting reinforcements from a distant [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]. ''(Although Adama will not have discovered this until later episodes, Raiders have the ability to make a jump ''much'' farther than any Colonial vessel.)''
* How many Vipers does ''Galactica'' actually have? Do they have a contingency plan should the majority (or all) of the Vipers be destroyed? Or are they simply fraked? (See [[Galactica (RDM)#Running Tallies|this article for a running tally by episode to-date]])
* Are the Colonials able to build ships, such as [[Viper (RDM)|Vipers]], from scratch? Or can they take destroyed hulks and rebuild off them? (Answer: Vipers are frequently salvaged, but only to a point. [[Flight of the Phoenix|Yes, they can build from scratch]], although the result [[Blackbird|may not be a Viper]]. However, [[Pegasus (RDM)|''Pegasus'']] is able to build Vipers from scratch, when she has the raw materials (metal ore, etc) to do so. ([[Scar]]))
* How exactly can a 3,600 year old text foretell the exodus of humanity, and the leadership of [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]]? ([[Sacred Scrolls|Answer]].)
* Does someone have time on their hands to build miniatures of the new Cylon Raiders for the [[Situation Room]]!?
* If [[Gaius Baltar]] read the Sacred Scrolls in "... the 6th grade", why, in spite of being the former Secretary of Education, doesn't [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] know who [[Pythia]] is?
**Answer: According to RDM, the Sacred Scrolls are much like modern Earth religions, i.e. the vast majority of the general populace often knows many often-quoted phrases and the general philosophy of a religion, but that doesn't mean every person is a theology scholar. Also, like Earth different sections of the Twelve Colonies are more religious than others. [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], for example, is quite secular in regards to religion, while [[Gemenon]] is religiously fundamentalist, believing in the literal truth of the Sacred Scrolls.
*Is Baltar truly an instrument of "God"?

== Analysis ==

Another powerful episode – if unfortunately contrived in some areas - that did much to further several plot lines and again draw together so much of what has transpired in previous episodes.

The performances throughout were powerful, and it was in some ways good to see one or two of the characters falling back into their old ways – notably Starbuck sliding back towards her conceited, overly-confident “frak off, only I can do this” annoying in-yer-faceness, and Apollo with his “oh woe is me” routine. That both of these two – who have progressed so far in so many different ways in so short a time (36 days, to be exact) can be seen to still have the baggage of their formal lives kicking around their feet, ready to be tripped over, is again a point in BSG’s favour in portraying the reality of the human condition. No-one becomes an ideal role-model overnight – or over the course of a month.

It’s also interesting to see how Roslin’s doubts concerning Adama’s humanity ([[Flesh and Bone]], [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]) have now reaped their harvest: Adama doesn’t trust her sufficiently enough to reveal all the details of tactical and strategic operations to her. In many respects, this side of their relationship is back to how it was back in "[[33]]".

With the Helo / Valerii situation on Caprica, the procreation element appears to have come to the fore. Despite the time of day, Vallerii's vomiting smacked strongly of "morning sickness". If this is the case, the meaning behind her statement to Helo that she is the one the Cylons are after ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]] is doubly clear: not only do they want her back – they want what they suspect she may be carrying inside her. And now he’s seen Six again, Helo can’t go on much longer before he starts stringing at least some of it together.

But of the entire episode, it is the opening of the Roslin and Baltar arcs that are the compelling.

Roslin is interesting on a number of levels. First off, there is the fact that she herself has some limited precognition, presumably as a result of the Chamalla treatment she is taking. But if it has happened once ([[Flesh and Bone]]), will it happen again? What will happen as her cancer grows, and she comes to rely on Chamalla and other medications to a greater degree. Oracles are not uncommon, it would appear from Colonial legend (Pythia) – could we see Roslin travel the road from purely political leader to a more pseudo-religious leader / Sybil; a possible counter-point to Baltar himself?

Then there is the reference to Pythia herself, and a further link to the ancient Greece of our own planet. In Greek mythology, the Pythia was the priestess at Apollo's oracle in Delphi. The name itself comes from Python, the dragon slain by Apollo.

The Pythia operated as a vehicle for Apollo's will to be known to those on earth. A believer would make a sacrifice and present a question to a priest. The priest would then present the question to the Pythia. The Pythia sat on a bronze tripod in the adytum, or inner chamber of Apollo's temple. In this sacred chamber the spirit of Apollo overcame the Pythia and inspired the prophecy.

Note the interesting potential resonances here:

*In our mythology, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythia Pythia] was the servant of Apollo; in BSG, we see a woman foretold by the Colonial’s “Pythia” seeking the counsel of “Apollo” (Lee Adama), and using the knowledge he imparts to her to better understand the likes of Adama
*In our mythology, it is often inferred that Pythia’s trances were induced from chewing laurel leaves (hence depictions of her holding a sprig of laurel) – on BSG, Roslin’s “visions” are induced by her taking an herbal remedy known as [[Chamalla]] extract.

A further interesting – possibly coincidental – resonance is that the Pythia in ancient Greece were the oracle of Delphi – and on Caprica, Helo and Valerii are making for the religious centre of Delphi.

On Baltar’s part, things are equally interesting – both in their religious context, and with the evolving situation with “his” Six.

Following his seeking God’s forgiveness ([[33]]) and his repentance of his sins ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]), Baltar finally becomes God’s “instrument”. He literally becomes the hand of God referenced in the episode title: he is the one that points out the target that will destroy the Cylon base.

This in itself is interesting. Over the last few weeks, we’ve seen Baltar move through the five emotional states that tend to guide our reactions to a new “truth” we’d rather not face:

*Denial (dismissing the “disappearance” of the ''Olympic Carrier'' after the call from Dr. Amorak as anything more than a serendipitous event - [[33]])
*Anger (his outright hostility towards Six as she continues to "bore" him with talk of God - [[Six Degrees of Separation]])
*Bargaining (praying to God for his safety in return for his obedience - [[Six Degrees of Separation]])
*Depression (leaving the Situation Room without having “heard” God’s voice & facing up to the fact that he had to – again - lie)
*Acceptance his messianic response to Six’s coaxing at the end of this episode.

Another interesting aspect of Baltar’s acceptance that he is indeed an “instrument of God” is in the fact that – as with many [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamental_Christianity fundamentalist Christian]] teachings here on Earth (which state that to truly become a Christian, one must undergo “death” and rebirth - hence the baptism) - Baltar experiences his own “death” as Six apparently breaks his neck while in his fantasy world, and he is “reborn” in the present, facing Tigh and Starbuck, and points out the tylium precursor tanks on the asteroid.

Given all this, is it any wonder we have a somewhat messianic Baltar at the end of the episode?

But what is the driving force behind Baltar’s “conversion”? The concept of a pseudo-Christian God is very much a Cylon concept, being repeatedly expressed by both Baltar’s Six and Leoben Conoy. It is also a concept alien to Colonial thinking. Taking it as read that Baltar is a human – one who prides himself on being a rational genius and “above” the need for religious “flim-flam” - why should he fixate on a Cylon religious concept?

Could it simply be a part of his mind playing on something Six said to him before Caprica was attacked? Or could it be the fact that “his” Six really is something more than a simple manifestation of his own psychosis? That she is an ideology / personality “downloaded” into him?

Again, this episode points towards Six being an ideology / personality downloaded into Baltar. To dismiss all that has happened around Baltar as a simple string of coincidences he has been able to knit together into his own personal version of reality is, on the basis of the events in this episode, becoming increasingly hard to accept.

And it is Six who brings the story circle – returning to the writings of Pythia and the two and ten serpents – only in this case, an alternative meaning is deduced (by Baltar): the 12 serpents are in fact the 12 Vipers lead by Apollo on the raid on the Cylon base. And again, notice the careful counterpoint: when Roslin reveals her hallucination to Elosha, the priestess reveals the writings of Pythia to her, essentially anointing Roslin as the leader Pythia once foretold. In the closing scene we have Six using the same writings to finally convince Baltar that he is also “anointed” – an instrument of God.

Is it mere coincidence that Six picks on the same passages as those identified by Elosha?

Away from these two threads, Adama further reconciles himself with his son – the scene played out in the Viper bay with the lighter is exceptionally well-handled, and fully in keeping with all that we’ve seen between Adama and Lee since the events of [[You Can’t Go Home Again]]. Indeed, in this, it is far more in keeping with the nature of both characters than the somewhat clumsy scene between Adama and Thrace that took place in Adama’s cabin during [[Act of Contrition]].

Similarly, and as mentioned, the re-bubbling of animosity between Lee Adama and Kara Thrace is handled by the writers and the actors with the right level of intensity that makes the situation so believable: Lee Adama’s resurfacing self-doubt; Thrace’s returning arrogance (born no doubt of her inability to fly herself): a careful mix that fully reminds us that there is still a lot of history to these characters – to all our cast – and past attitudes and doubts are not easily put aside.

Returning to the main thrust of the episode: the need of tylium and the attack on the Cylon base. In setting it up, the producers are making it clear that, as with the fall-out from the events of [[Water]], they are not going to forget logistical matters. We’ve had a water shortage, now we’ve had a fuel shortage. However, they’ve also very cleverly made it clear that such problems are not going to become an easy fall-back for writers stuck for ideas to use: in [[Water]] it was made abundantly clear that, saving sabotage or serious damage, ''[[Galactica]]'' can keep the majority of the fleet supplied with clean water (and it was intimated that other vessels in the fleet can take care of their own water needs). Here, it is fuel that is currently the issue of the day – providing the Cylon base is taken; we’re informed that fuel supplies needn’t be a problem for the fleet for another couple of years – again barring mishaps.

But perhaps the most interesting question surrounding the entire tylium situation is: was it actually a set-up by the Cylons?

We know from Leoben Conoy’s promise to Starbuck ([[Flesh and Bone]]) that the Colonials are going to find Kobol. To do so, they are going to need fuel – and the chances are that the Cylons are aware of this fact, either through deduction (the Fleet has been burning fuel at a considerable rate – no fewer than 238 jumps in the first five days of the “chase”) or via possible contact with their agents within the Fleet. What better to ensure they reach Kobol that to not only provide them with raw tylium, but also with the facilities to rapidly mine it? Certainly, considering their vast numerical superiority (some 140 Raiders facing around 18-20 Vipers) – the Cylons gave up easily enough once the base had been destroyed.

Further, given the way they appear to set so much by Colonial religious writings – Six and Conoy both quoting scripture and ancient texts – allowing the Colonials to “win” the battle at the tylium asteroid could been seen as a means of fulfilling the prophesy quoted by Six to Baltar, and thus helping “ensure” the upcoming confrontation at Kobol.

Which is not to say the story is not without a few hiccups; for a start, how does a seasoned tactical officer like Tigh come up with a plan of attack on the Cylon base that is so fundamentally flawed in its concept from the outset: jumping the Galactica in “behind” the enemy, without considering the nature and extent of the enemy’s likely fighter patrols? One might forgive Lee Adama such a mistake – he’s hardly a veteran war planner; but Tigh? He of all people should know that this far outside of a friendly sphere of influence, when the enemy (the Colonials) have a warship capable of jumping in on them from any point in space, the Cylons are bound to have the most obvious hiding-places staked out with fighter patrols or automated scanning systems.

No, the flawed planning is designed to open the door to Starbuck’s “out-of-the-box” thinking and the planting of the decoy mission. Sadly, while it does this, the way the opening is played diminishes Tigh for his lack of foresight.

Then there is the question of why is Starbuck so upset that the first part of the plan - the attack by Viper Strike Force One is going “wrong”? It is her plan – as Adama states – and so she should be aware that it is the “Strike Force” that is in fact the decoy, not the freighters. As such, the decoys stand a good chance of “being cut to pieces” – yet her reaction, in facing Adama is accusatory, as if she had no idea this would happen.

Next up is the fact that - despite the loss of their base – the Cylons have a massive numerical superiority over the Colonial Vipers (some 18-20 Vipers (after losses), split into two small groups facing-off against 140-ish Raiders) – yet they failed to ram this advantage home. Part of the Cylon plan? Possibly, but the way it was handled in the episode (the Raiders simply “bugging out”) doesn’t really support this. Nor does the idea of those same 140-odd Raiders simply running away from a force of just 8 Vipers (the remaining ships of Strike Force One) without making some attempt at taking out several more Vipers.

Finally, there is Adama’s apparently reckless response to the news the Cylons are bugging out – ordering his fighters after them when a) the Cylons do have a massive numerical superiority that could quickly put his fighters at risk; b) the Cylons have FTL and so could easily evade the Vipers (after drawing them out) prior to jumping, re-grouping and then jumping back in (to, say, launch an attack directly on ''Galactica'' herself while she is still sans fighters.

But these really are minor glitches in what is otherwise an episode that again operates on several levels and cleverly interweaves a number of different threads.

== Notes ==
*Nine days have passed since the events of [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]].
*Tylium ore is use to power FTL systems, but probably not through any fissionable reaction.
*Tylium has an energy density of about 5e14 J/kg, comparable to that of nuclear fusion.
*Cylon technology is clearly a Colonial off-shoot, as one would expect: from the use of tylium down to the shape of doorways.
*William Adama’s father was Joseph Adama.
*Sharon Valerii on Caprica may well be pregnant.
*Lt. Gaeta makes mention in passing conversation to Apollo that the Colonials actually know where the [[Cylon homeworld]] is ("they'd build a refinery this far from their homeworld?" "Why not? They need fuel out here just as much as we do").
*There is an ancient text some 3,600 years old foretelling humanity’s flight – and apparently, Roslin’s leadership.
*Mark II Vipers can carry both missiles and munitions pods (bombs).
*The Mark VII Vipers all appear to be out of commission - even Apollo is now regularly flying a Mk II.
*Based on the conversation between Commander Adama and Starbuck in the gym, it appears that Mark II Viper thruster pedals use a mechanical flight control system rather than a "fly-by-wire" linkage. This fits the concept of minimizing the use of computers mentioned in the [[miniseries]].
*The religious overtones to the human / Cylon struggle are becoming more pronounced, with a now-promised confrontation due at the “home of the Gods”.
*The Colonial fleet has a tylium refinery ship among its number.
*With the capture of the tylium mining facilities on the asteroid, the Colonials should be able to gather enough tylium to keep them going for about 2 years – assuming they can shift that much tylium to their refinery ship before the Cylons return.
*A railway line can be seen below the balcony of Baltar's Caprica house at the end of the episode. Single track, mounted on apparently wooden (as oppsoed to conrete sleepers), on a bed of gravel, without any form of electrifcation (3rd rail or overhead wires).
*The "R&D TV Animation" skit consists of David Eick slicing Ron Moore's face open with a piece of paper.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*Lee Adama sits with a battered Viper before the mission. He is joined by his father, who after a short conversation, Adama hands Lee a lighter:
:Commander Adama: It belonged to your grandfather. My mother bought it for him when he was in law school. See the engraving on it?
:Lee Adama: (reading the name "Joseph Adama") Yes I...can barely make it out...
:Commander Adama: He was a better father than I was. Dad used to carry that into court cases. He claimed he never lost unless he left it behind.
:Lee Adama: So you’re worried too.
:Commander Adama: About what?
:Lee Adama: Sometimes it feels like the whole ship thinks...Starbuck...would do better.
:Commander Adama: I don’t.
:Lee Adama: How can you be so sure?
:Commander Adama: Because you’re my son.

*Commander Adama asks Starbuck to assist with developing a plan to attack the refinery:
:Commander Adama: Captain Adama and Colonel Tigh are working on the plan now and I need some serioius "out-of -the-box" thinking.
:Starbuck: "Out-of-the-box" is where I live.

*During the briefing with Apollo, Tigh, Starbuck, Adama, and Roslin.
:Commander Adama: Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six.

== Official Statements ==




== Guest stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as Specialist [[Cally]]
*[[Lorena Gale]] as [[Elosha]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Cailin+Stadnyk Cailin Stadnyk] as Ensign [[Davis]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
*[[Lucianna Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Terry+Chen Terry Chen] as [[Perry|"Chuckles" Perry]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Christina+Schild Christina Schild] as [[Playa Palacios]]
*[[Biski Gugushe]] as [[Sekou Hamilton]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Paul+Cummings Paul Cummings] as [[Fireball]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Camille+Sullivan Camille Sullivan] as [[Stepchild]]

== Statistics ==


== External Links ==
[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/110/ "The Hand of God"] at scifi.com
{{Episode List}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)|Hand of God, The]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Jeff Woolnough]]

[[es:La Mano de Dios]]

33

2006-04-26T17:28:37Z

Nevfennas: /* Nit-picks */

{{translation|[[:de:33 Minuten|German]], [[:es:33 Minutos|Spanish]], [[33/fr:33 minutes|French]] and [[33/pt:33|Portuguese]]}}

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:33_countdown.jpg|300px]]
| Title= 33
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 1 (2004-05)|1]]
| Episode= 1
| Guests=
| Writer= [[Ronald D. Moore]]
| Story=
| Director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| Production= 1.01 '''(Series Premiere)'''
| Rating= 2.6
| US Airdate= January 14 2005
| UK Airdate= October 18 2004
| DVD= March 28 2005 (UK) September 20 2005 (US)
| Population=
| Prev= [[Miniseries]]
| Next= [[Water]]
}}

== Overview ==

: ''Continuing from the events of the [[Miniseries]], [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica]]'' and [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] must avoid their [[Cylon]] pursuers, which ambush them every 33 minutes after each successful [[FTL|Jump]].''

== Summary ==

=== On ''[[Galactica]]'' ===
* The crew of battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'' have been on continuous alert for some 130.35 hours, during which time the Fleet has had to make an [[FTL|FTL Jump]] every 33 minutes to escape their [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] pursuers shortly after their initial escape from [[Ragnar Anchorage]].
* Everyone in the Fleet is beginning to feel the strain – particularly [[Gaius Baltar]], who is also distracted by [[Number Six|Six’s]] repeated conversations about [[God]] having a plan for him, and also her wanting to have his children.
* Vessels in the Fleet are also beginning to feel the strain: Jump engines and their controlling computers are starting to breakdown or malfunction, requiring ''Galactica'' to linger longer and longer in the Cylon line of fire while the rest of the fleet complete their Jumps.
* Following jump number 237, [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] receives word from a Dr. [[Amorak]] aboard the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' concerning information on how the Cylons overcame Colonial defenses.
* Overhearing the conversation, Baltar is worried: he knew Amorak at the [[Defence Ministry]]. As Six points out, Amorak might have information on Baltar's complicity with the Cylon attack.
* There is insufficient time before the next Jump to bring Amorak aboard ''[[Colonial One]]'', but Roslin wants to see him directly after the Jump has been completed.
* Elsewhere, [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] is having problems accepting her new [[ECO]], [[Crashdown]], and is feeling guilty about leaving [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] to his fate.
* When the next Jump is made, the ''Olympic Carrier'', complete with Dr. Amorak and 1344 other souls, fails to appear with the rest of the Fleet. Six tries to convince Baltar that it is because God is watching over him.
* Thirty-three minutes later, the Fleet is ready to jump, but the Cylons don’t appear. Adama orders a stand-down from the immediate alert, but the Fleet is to maintain a readiness to Jump, in case the Cylons do return.
* When Baltar continues to refuse the concept of God, the ''Olympic Carrier'' reappears; Commander [[William Adama|Adama]] orders the Fleet to [[Action Stations|Condition One alert]], fearing the worst. He orders the Jump clocks reset in anticipation of the Cylons arriving.
*The [[Combat Air Patrol]] lead by [[Lee Adama]] intercepts the [[Intersun|starliner]]. Adama orders all communications with the ''Carrier'' jammed and the ''Carrier'' is ordered (through signal lamps) to remain at its current position. When the ''Carrier'' fails to heed orders not to approach the fleet, tensions rise, and a [[Radiological Alarm|radiological alarm]] reveals there is now a nuclear weapon on the liner.
*As the crisis deepens, the Cylons appear precisely 33 minutes after the return of the ''Carrier'', confirming that the ''Carrier'' was used somehow by the Cylons to track the Fleet. Adama wants to destroy the liner, but Roslin hesitates to give the order, as no one can be sure if the 1,345 people aboard the ''Carrier'' are still alive. Baltar is terrified she won't give the order for fear of Amorak's information.
*Six uses the hesitation to push Baltar into “repenting” before God. As soon as he does, Roslin gives the order to destroy the liner. Apollo and [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] (reluctantly) open fire, destroying the liner. After the Fleet makes a Jump once more, the Cylon's relentless pursuit is halted.
*A day later, everyone is living with the consequences of their actions. Only [[Billy Keikeya]] has a small nugget of good news: at some point in the proceedings, a baby was born in the Fleet.

===On Caprica===
* [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] is on the run in the rainy woodland, and has [[Wikipedia:Claymore mine|Claymore-like ordinance]] he uses to blow up pursuing [[Cylon Centurion]]s.
* Helo's six days on the run comes to an end when he is captured by the Cylons, after being distracted by the appearance of a copy of [[Number Six]], wearing a white raincoat.
*Helo is “rescued” by [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|a copy of Valerii]], who shoots Six and then leads Helo away into the woods. Helo mistakenly believes that this Valerii copy is actually the "Boomer" copy that left Caprica and returned to rescue him.

== Summary from Sci-Fi.com ==

In the wake of the Cylon sneak attack, the ragtag fleet of human survivors is forced to play a deadly game of cat-and-mouse with their pursuers. Every 33 minutes, they make a jump to a new location. And every 33 minutes, the Cylons manage to find them. The pilots are on the brink of exhaustion, relying on artificial stimulants to keep fighting, and the civilians are beginning to doubt the leadership of Commander Adama and President Roslin.

When the Olympic Carrier, a commercial passenger ship, fails to make a jump and then later mysteriously turns up unharmed, Adama fears it has been infiltrated by the Cylons. His choice: destroy it and the 1,300 souls it might still be carrying, or risk the annihilation of the entire fleet. Adama is not alone in fearing the mystery ship. Baltar, who remains mentally connected with his beautiful and deadly Cylon companion Number Six, panics when he learns one of the ship's passengers has information about a traitor in the president's inner circle.

Meanwhile, down on the ruined, Cylon-occupied colony of Caprica, Helo is on the run from another group of Cylons. He's going to need help to make it back to the Galactica — but there's no help in sight….
--©2005, [http://www.scifi.com SCI FI]. All rights reserved.

== Questions ==

* Billy reports that the number of survivors is down by 300 - some lost through death from injuries, etc., some "lost" through initial inaccurate counts, and the rest have "disappeared." How can people simply "disappear" in the fleet?
* Does Doctor Amorak truly have something on Baltar's involvement in the holocaust?
* Is Six actually in contact with other Cylons, and thus involved in the disappearance / reappearance of the ''Olympic Carrier''?
* What happened to the group of survivors [[Helo]] was left with in the [[Miniseries]]?

==Blooper Moments==
* During the opening titles, ''Galactica'' is shown to be making a Jump with her flight pods extended - not only that, the shot was recycled footage from the [[Miniseries]].
* Billy may be a good PA, but he’s not good at math. The inaugural episode starts with 50,298 survivors. He informs Roslin this is in error by 300 = 49,998 survivors. When the Olympic Carrier is destroyed (1,345 people), he reduces the total to 47,972 – that’s a reduction of 2026, or 681 people MORE than listed on the ''Carrier''!
** Whatever Roslin taught at school, it wasn’t mathematics – she fails to pick up on Billy’s error.
** This is after five sleepless nights and doubtlessly uncertain population figures coming from across the Fleet, making the uncertain numbers of survivors partly reasonable. The business of performing an accurate census, after all, is of a comparatively low priority than the business of self-preservation.
* When [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] admits that she lost the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'', her headset changes sides during the conversation.
* As Helo fires upon the Cylon Centurion that survived the detonation of an anti-personnel mine (similar to a [[Wikipedia:Claymore mine|Claymore mine]]), the first time Helo fires the pistol, it is heard to fire, but there is no accompanying visual spark from the barrel. In contrast, the second shot is accompanied by both a spark and the appropriate sound.
* As the Cylon Centurion approaches Helo from behind, you can see the rain hitting it, but it does not drip off the Warrior's body. In contrast, water is dripping from Helo's face in a fairly consistent and noticeable manner.
* After the disappearance of the Olympic Carrier in Jump 238, and the timer is running towards the 33 minute mark, the viewer can see that the clock is at 10 seconds. When focusing on Adama and Tigh, the viewer hears ten seconds counting off, but when the camera quick-pans to the overhead console, it reads that 3 seconds have passed.

== Analysis ==

Overall, a good opening episode that cleverly adds to a number of arcs from the Miniseries: is Boomer a Cylon? What is the Six who is interacting with Baltar? Can the Colonials truly escape the shadow of the Cylons?

The opening sequence of shots ending with the second Valerii on Caprica is interesting: is this a hint to the real identity of Boomer on ''Galactica''? Also, is the good-natured teasing between Starbuck and Boomer during the CAP an indication that others have noticed Boomer seems to be handling the lack of sleep a lot better than others. Could this lead to some kind of rumor-mill starting-up about her? ([[Litmus|Answers start in "Litmus"]])

As to [[Number Six#Baltar's Internal Six|Baltar's Six]]: three possibilities seem to suggest themselves:

*She is a working of his own psyche; a reaction to his betrayal of his people to the Cylons. Certainly, his increasing psychosis in the episode would seem to point to this; but then, he has - like the rest - been five plus days without sleep, and some degree of paranoia is bound to result.
*She is, as she suggested in the Miniseries, an implant in his head and possibly in communication with the Cylons. However, if this is the case, surely the Cylon hunt for the Fleet would continue despite the destruction of the ''Olympic Carrier'' - as the Cylons would be tracing the fleet through Baltar. Given the humans are to all intents and purposes "on the ropes", it seems odd that they would break off the attack when they have such a clear advantage. (The brain scan on Baltar in "[[Home, Part II]]" dismisses the notion that a mechanical implant is in his head, although it may not be medically recognizable or even in his head, but elsewhere.)
*Could Six be a complete download of "Six's" personality, captured at the point of destruction of Baltar's home, and now contained in his head, possibly occupying his subconscious, out of contact with her own kind, but able to fully interact with his thoughts and feelings – even manipulate his thoughts and feelings? This may suggest Baltar [[Gaius Baltar#Speculation: The Real Baltar?|could be a Cylon agent himself]].

Meanwhile, the episode builds on some of the relationships established in the Miniseries: Apollo and Starbuck clearly have a past, at least through Thrace's relationship with Lee's deceased brother, [[Zak Adama|Zak]], one that reaches beyond command hierarchies, exhaustion and tempers. The [[hangar deck]] confrontation is a valuable byplay not so much for what it says, but for the way in which it is communicated - a large element of non-verbal communication passing between Thrace and Lee Adama prior to her taking the [[stims]].

Similarly, Roslin's mistrust of Adama, as expressed at the end of the Miniseries following his admission that "Earth" was a deception on his part, has begun to grow into an edgy respect: she knows full-well that without his leadership, the Fleet would not have survived 5 days of repeated Jumps - and she is prepared to admit it. (Roslin deals with Adama's deception about Earth starting in a multi-episode story arc [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I|starting later in the season and concluding in season 2]].)

Then there is Adama's relationship with his son. From the scene where they discuss responsibility, it is evident that there is a gulf between them still - one that may well be held open in part by their relative positions aboard ''Galactica''. Adama is Lee's father and the commanding officer of ''Galactica''. While both again appear to want to bridge the gap – the difference in rank still prevents them openly discussing things: hence Lee's act of rebuffing his father's attempt to console him following the shooting of the ''Olympic Carrier''. (The tension between the Adamas comes to a head with significant reconciliation in "[[Act of Contrition]]", "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]", "[[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]", and in the concluding first season and opening second season episodes, starting with "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" through "[[Home, Part II]]".)

Overall the three storylines evident in the episode – escaping the Cylons, Baltar and Six and Helo on Caprica - are cleverly interwoven, with the main storyline; the Baltar / Six relationship in particular intersecting smoothly through the crisis involving the ''Olympic Carrier'', while the Helo subplot is given enough exposure to engage us and deflect attention from the "A" story sufficiently to heighten the drama, without actually interrupting the overall story flow.

Indeed, such is the subtlety of the Helo sub-plot that the questions it raises don't really reveal themselves until a second viewing, and you realize they are related to the central Cylon theme: why does Six ask him if he is alive? He clearly is, and the question is not a reference to either his leg wound or his radiation-induced sickness. Nor is it simply a throwback to her "sister's" first words to the Colonial officer at [[Armistice Station]]. It is something that appears to go to the very center of Cylon reasoning. (Answers to the strange manipulations with Helo are explained in the second season episode, "[[The Farm]]".)

Similarly, while it could be over-sensitivity given the amount of time the Valerii on Caprica was on-screen, but one couldn't help but feel she was perhaps a little too human; too familiar with Helo? It seems odd that she is introduced to Helo through the "killing" of the Six construct. Why resort to the "murder" of one of her own? Was this simply to establish her credibility in the eyes of Helo? Could she not have found another way to make contact with Helo? Contrasted with the comments regarding Boomer's heritage back on ''Galactica'', are the writers attempting to imply something? Could it bee that BOTH the Valerii characters are Cylons that believe themselves to be human? (The Valerii model indeed shows a history of being ''too'' human as season 1 and 2 progress: See the [[Cylon agent]] article for more.)

===Nit-picks===

*Why is Boomer's Raptor launched alongside Apollo's Vipers for what everyone is expecting to be an interdiction exercise against Cylon Raiders?
:* Based on events from the [[Miniseries]] and in later episodes, Raptors are occasionally used to support or augment Viper operations with strengthened [[DRADIS]] and perhaps [[Radiological Alarm|radiological]] detection. Normally, Raptors are not on [[CAP]] with Vipers and are frequently deployed alone or as a group, but the events of "[[33]]" suggest that Commander Adama wanted to ensure extra coverage with the Raptor's stronger [[Computers|avionics]] to ensure extra coverage of Cylon activity.
:* In a [[Resurrection Ship, Part II| later Epsisode]] a Raptor is used for rescuing ejected pilots during combat.
*For the Cylons to track the fleet across many light years two possibilities exist for how that may be performed: 1) The Cylons have developed some sort of FTL communication (this would also explain how they are able to transmit their memories when they die over interstellar distances) or 2) The Olympic Carrier managed to transmit their jump coordinates without being detected before performing their own FTL jump. Logically, Adama should have ordered a jump before the 33 minute window was up to eliminate the second possibility.
**They established that the Fleet was physically straining itself to calculated and make Jumps as fast as every 33 minutes. Anything shorter would probably have been impossible.

*The Corridor Memorial scene, while somewhat heavy-handed to some viewers, succeeded in continuing the writer's allusion to the September 11 2001 terrorist attacks in the United States to the events of the Miniseries through the use of the many memorials, the confusion in finding lost loved ones, and Dualla's amazement at the size of the memorial. (A [[Lest We Forget|picture of a Colonial soldier]] on one of the Colonies during its destruction also plays on the intense feelings of loss and hopelessness felt by many Americans when they saw similar pictures of New York City firefighters at the ruins of the World Trade Center.)

*Similarly, the failure to openly resolve the issue of whether or not 1,345 people remained aboard the ''Olympic Carrier'' after its return weakens the story for some. Indeed, Apollo's flyby of the ship is suggestive that the ship indeed was empty - thus removing our feelings of horror one step further from the drama being played out on screen. Would the scene have been better portrayed with humans looking outward to give a heightened potential of loss? By ''not'' showing the passengers, the writers increase the magnitude of consequence to the Colonials. The ambiguity of the passenger's status also fit with the new Cylon agent ''modus operandi''. Given that it is likely that a Cylon agent had infiltrated the ''Carrier'', leading to its probable capture and transformation into a weapon, the operatives also tend to play psychological games on the Colonials for greater long-term effect than the mere loss of a ship. It is very likely that the Cylons ''knew'' that the missing passengers would make things harder for the Colonials and cause greater strife.

*Another nit-pick comes with the reminder of Tigh's alcoholism. The by-play here didn't entirely fit, and came across as a clumsy reminder that the writers hadn't forgotten about Tigh's condition and would possibly be returning to it in the future (which does happen in season 2, particularly in "[[Resistance]]").

*Some viewers had become curious of the significance to the use of the number "33" in this episode, as well as the use of the number "3" with events in later episodes. As with other science-fiction television such as "Star Trek", writers tend to play inside jokes, sometimes perpetuating this from series to series. Nothing to date has shown that these plays on numbers are anything more than jokes that do not infer additional relevant episode data. See the amusing [[Numerology]] page for more on these number jokes and the "mystery of 33."

== Notes ==

* Continuous jumping badly affects the FTL drives and management systems aboard commercial Colonial vessels, which are not as rugged as the ''Galactica's'' military-issue drives
* The Cylons Jump ability is just as highly-accurate as the Jumps of the Colonials. In 238 times they manage to pounce on the Colonial fleet, arriving with precise momentum and trajectory to be able to close the distance and launch an attack
* According to Socinus, there are 5,251 people in the Fleet from [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Sagittaron|Sagittaron]]
* As of "[[33]]", there are 60 civilian ships in the Fleet, but [[Continuity errors (RDM)|errors in continuity of episode events]], especially from "[[Home, Part I]]", may place this initial information in question
* The head count of Colonial citizens at the end of the episode is 47,273
* This episode won the [[Awards and Honors|2005 Hugo Award for Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form]]
* [[Zoic]] visual effects artists hid small signs of movement within the ''Olympic Carrier'' in close-up effect shots as something of a morbid joke. Lights in the windows appear to flicker on and off rather rapidly and when slowed down there is some kind of movement visible on the inside of the ship
* In the DVD commentary for this episode, Ron D. Moore states that during the scene when Dualla hands Commander Adama a set of reports that he reads aloud (including fuel shortages, dozens of crewmen breaking down from nervous exhaustion, etc), Edward James Olmos ad-libbed "and ten suicides" in one take. The production team really liked the ad-lib, and thought the way Olmos acted the scene was fantastic. However, there were concerns that the network would think this would make an already ''extremely'' "dark" episode far '''too''' dark and alienate the audience during the premiere, and the line was reluctantly cut.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*Colonel Tigh: Yes, we're tired. Yes, there is no relief. Yes, the Cylons keep coming after us time after time after time. And yes, we are still expected to do our jobs!

* ''When Lee Adama and Kara Thrace are on ''Galactica's'' flight deck:''
:Lee Adama: Hey, did you see the note from the XO?
:Kara Thrace: I saw it. No way.
:Lee Adama: Kara, everyone else--
:Kara Thrace: I don't fly with stims. They fudge with your reflexes, your reaction time.
:Lee Adama: Come on, Kara, give me a break. Just--
:Kara Thrace: Why are we arguing about this?
:Lee Adama: I have no idea.
:Kara Thrace: Neither do I. You're the [[CAG]], act like one.
:Lee Adama: What does that mean?
:Kara Thrace: It means that you're still acting like everyone's best friend. We're not friends. You're the CAG. "Be careful out there?" Our job isn't to be careful, it's to shoot frakking [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] out of the sky. "Good Hunting" is what you say. And one of your idiot pilots is acting like a child and refusing to take her pills. So she either says "Yes, sir" and obeys a direct order, or you smack her in the mouth and drag her sorry ass to [[sickbay]] and you make her take those pills.
:''(Lee and Kara both start laughing)''
:Lee Adama: Well, I'm glad I'm not working for you.
:Kara Thrace: ''(laughing)'' Damn right you're glad.
:Lee Adama: So do I have to smack you in the mouth, Lieutenant?
:Kara Thrace: No sir, I'll take my pills. ''(takes pills from Lee)'' Perfect.
:Lee Adama: Carry on.
:Kara Thrace: ''(half-heartedly saluting)'' Yes, sir.

* ''When Commander Adama and Colonel Tigh are talking outside the [[CIC]]:''
:Colonel Tigh: ''(grunting)'' Oh...a couple hours rack time does sound awfully sweet right about now...
:Commander Adama: You deserve it.
:Colonel Tigh: You know, the truth is, all this has me feeling...well, more alive than I have in years.
:Commander Adama: You look that way too. It's good to see you without the cup in your hand.
:Colonel Tigh: Ah, don't start.
:Commander Adama: I know there's a whole lot of people on this ship, that wish you weren't feeling as good.
:Colonel Tigh: ''(laughing)'' If the crew doesn't hate the XO, then he's not doing his job. Besides, I've gotta make the old man look good.
:Commander Adama: I always look good.
:Colonel Tigh: Look in the mirror.
:Commander Adama: Seriously...
:Colonel Tigh: Sir?
:Commander Adama: It's one thing to push the crew. It's another thing to break them.

* ''As the [[Olympic Carrier]] heads on a suicide run towards ''Galactica'', Lee Adama, Kara Thrace and Sharon Valerii are flying beside the liner:''
:Boomer: ''(in a Raptor flying beside the ''Olympic Carrier'')'' We have...new orders. We are directed to...destroy the ''Olympic Carrier'', and return back to ''Galactica''.
:Kara Thrace: ''(in a Viper flying beside the carrier)'' It's a civilian ship!
:Crashdown: ''(inside the Raptor)'' Yeah...a civilian ship with nukes.
:(Lee Adama looks out the cockpit window of his Viper at the ship, which seems to be barren)
:Crashdown: I don't see anybody in there. Do you?
:Lee Adama: The Cylons will be here any second. If we're gonna do this, let's just do it. Starbuck, form up with me and we'll make one pass from astern.
:''(Lee and Kara fall back a fair distance from the ship)''
:Kara Thrace: Lee, what if you're wrong? ''(silence)'' Lee, come on. Lee!
:Lee Adama: Okay, fire on my mark.
:Kara Thrace: No [[Frak|frakking]] way, Lee. Lee! Come on!
:Lee Adama: Fire.
:''(Lee and Kara both open fire on the Olympic Carrier, and it explodes in a ball of flames)''

== Official Statements ==

=== {{from_RDM_blog}}: Note on [["Lest We Forget"]] ===

:"It's probably been asked before, but I'm curious as to whom[sic] is in the picture in the Viper Pilot's briefing room, facing away from the camera . . . the one the pilots, including [[William Adama|Commander Adama]], touch when they enter and leave? This is touching, and is a wonderful human element to the story. So who is it?"

:There was a scene cut from [[33|"33"]] where we saw [[Laura Roslin]] being given her copy of the photo along with a card that said it was taken on the roof of the capitol building on Aerilon during the attack. The photo was inspired by the famous shot of the fire-fighters raising the flag at Ground Zero that became iconic. I thought the Colonies would have their own version of this -- a snapshot taken in the moment that becomes a symbol of the day they can never forget and of all they had lost. The photo itself is of a soldier falling to his knees (possibly shot or simply overcome by emotion) as he stands on the rooftop over looking the devastation of his city, while the Colonial flag waves at the edge of frame. The inscription below the photo on Laura's plaque reads, [["Lest We Forget"]] in itself a reference to the inscription on the watch presented to John Wayne's character in "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon."

=== Comments from the Cast ===

*"Insomnia. Nobody has slept. Everyone's just coming to terms with the fact that they have lost everybody that they've loved or relate to." -- [[Jamie Bamber]], [http://scifi.com/battlestar/bts/video/mov/video_06_320.mov]

*"It was a hard episode, because, you just had to basically fall apart." -- [[Katee Sackhoff]], [http://scifi.com/battlestar/bts/video/mov/video_06_320.mov]

*"Episode 1 is extremely docu-style because the characters haven't actually slept for five days (sic) and they have been running from the Cylons for the 250th time. And it's very stressful and they're about to lose the plot completely because of sleep deprivation." -- [[Michael Rymer]], [http://scifi.com/battlestar/bts/video/mov/video_06_320.mov]

== Guest stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as Crewman Specialist [[Cally]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Alonso+Oyarzun Alonso Oyarzun] as Crewman Specialst [[Socinus]]
*[[Paul Campbell]] as [[Billy Keikeya]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Samuel Witwer]] as [[Crashdown]]

{{Episode List}}

== External Links ==
[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/101/ "33"] at scifi.com

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

[[es:33 Minutos]]
[[de:33 Minuten]]

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-04-24T22:16:48Z

Nevfennas: /* Picture of destroyed Galactica-type Battlestar */

:: Archive from [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Talk:Galactica_type_battlestar&oldid=47676 April 17, 2006]
== Medical Capabilites of a Battlestar ==

Peter,

Your assertion of "unfound speculation" concerning my contribution is uninformed and unfounded. I am a military medical planner and a published author. My assertion of the potential medical capabilities and requirements of an intergalactic warship (modeled on a US aircraft carrier), while hypothetical, is informed. Keep in mind these are requirements that the ship would have originally been built (not the "as is" state). At this point in the story line, clearly Major Cottle is the only doctor on Galactica, however we have never seen the Pegasus medical bay or any of its medical personnel. With established industrial facilities on Pegasus (Viper production established in “Scar”), the Pegasus would have evn greater Occupational Health / Preventive Medicine than Galactica. And if you do a walk down of the ancillary services (pharmacy (camala extract), orthopedic and x-ray (Kara’s knee injury), optometry (ADM Adama’s glasses), etc, you will see they exist even if they are not portrayed. Additionally, it was an Intensive Care Unit (ICU) bed, complete with ventilator, which William Adama was in during his multiple surgeries (establishing an Operation Room (OR)).

Capital ships are designed to go into battle, which means they will take damage and casualties. Often it is the ability to regenerate / repair / refit in the quickest amount of time that determines the outcome of battles. General Nathan Bedford Forrest of the Confederate States of America is famous for the quote, “He who gets there the fastest with the mostest wins.” RDM makes reference to his experience onboard a Navy ship in podcasts, including “The Captain’s Hand”. Thus, there is an established framework present.

I provide you two active hyperlinks that back up my contribution. While dated, they are still relevant.

http://www.mfp.usmc.mil/TeamApp/G4/Topics/20040916154046/Med%20Cont%20Factbook.pdf

www.iiimef.usmc.mil/medical/ FMF/FMFE/FMFEref/fs_man/CHAPTER%2014.html

--[[User:Killerman|Killerman]] 20:26, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

:I have no doubt that you are well qualified to speak about the medical capabilities of an aircraft carrier. I dispute their relevance to BSG, however. while they might provide a good baseline for guesswork, I don't think that simple guesswork belongs on this site. We don't extrapolate armament details based on the capabilities of modern naval vessels, for example. If you wanted, I wouldn't object to something along the lines of "we may conjecture that the medical facilities of a colonial battlestar are roughly comparable to those of a modern aircraft carrier" with one of the links you provided above; but I will not agree to listing out detailed specifications based on no in-continuity data. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:37, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

::''At last I went to the artisans. I was conscious that I knew nothing at all, as I may say, and I was sure that they knew many fine things; and here I was not mistaken, for they did know many things of which I was ignorant, and in this they certainly were wiser than I was. But I observed that even the good artisans fell into error;--because they were good workmen they thought that they also knew all sorts of high matters, and this defect in them overshadowed their wisdom;''
:::''The Apology of Socrates'', Plato

::Sir, none of us doubt that you know what you are talking about when you list the medical capabilities of a modern aicraft carrier. But this does not grant you increased insight into the inner logic of the tv series: First, we have no idea how many medical staff are onboard, and comparing it to an aircraft carrier is just speculation. Second, we have no idea how many crewmen a Mercury class battlestar normally has, as has been asked in the "Questions" segment of the "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]" episode guide article: Pegasus has 1,750 crewmen when it encounters Galactica, but A) It was going into drydock, and some of the crew may have left to the port, B) 700 crewmen died in the initial attack C) Cain impressed civillians she encounteed into service and most importantly C) Cain was fighting a hit and run war against the Cylons for months, which wore down her crew numbers through attrition. But I digress. Yes, we should object to a statement like "we may conjecture that medical facilities of a colonial battlestar are roughly comparable to those of a modern aircraft carrier". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:41, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

:::I guess you can object to that too, if you want. I was trying to compromise. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:48, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I'm sorry Peter but this is a really good example of the speculation I don't think we should be inserting into this kind of article. There is nothing to be gained from such a compromise. I would if there were, and would like to, but I can't change facts. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:51, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Peter,

As I am preparing to deploy for a year, please forgive me as I have packed all my BSG video. I grant you that the personnel numbers for a fully manned battlestar are informed speculation based upon a comparison to a modern aircraft carrier. I use these numbers as RDM has referenced a battlestar to a modern carrier, his experience in the Navy (podcast for The Captain’s Hand), Galactica type battlestar – article – dimensions’ jpg comparing a Battlestar to a CVN Image:Bsg-2-cvn.jpg on this very page. My professional training drives me to fill in unknowns with assumptions. That is what the personnel piece was intended and is consistent with other speculation within the Wiki, so long as it is said to be speculation (i.e. the actual working of an FTL drive). But sticking to the medical capabilities known from “in country (your term)” knowledge (i.e. seen on screen or in dialogue), we know much about Galactica. First, Galactica has a sickbay (Act of Contrition, Litmus). Exact bed count is not known, but is greater than seven (Act of Contrition). Based upon the burn victims (Act of Contrition) and treatment of William Adama (Scattered, Valley of Darkness, Fragged), we have seen Intensive Care Unit (ICU) beds, complete with ventilators, electrocardiograms (ECG), pulse / respiration / pulseox (shows percent of oxygen saturation dissolved in blood) monitors. We also have seen at least on operation room (OR) (Fragged), and subsequently confirm its existence with Kara Thrace’s knee surgery (Litmus) and Lee Adama’s chest surgery (Sacrifice). Concerning the radiology suite, we saw a Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI – incidentally, a very advanced piece of equipment) when Baltar had Dr. Cottle examine his head looking for an implanted chip (sorry, don’t remember the episode). We also saw conventional (chest) x-rays of Commander William Adama, during his surgery (Fragged, Scattered). We heard about Sharon’s ultrasound, as part of pre-natal health on Hera, where Dr. Cottle found an abnormality. And while not part of radiology, Hera, is placed in a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU) incubator, when is born prematurely. Next, we know it has a pharmacy. The President asked Dr. Cottle for Camala, the Viper pilots were taking “stims” (33, Final Cut) and Kara is taking pain killers for her knee surgery (Litmus) and latter asks Lee for antibiotics for Anders (Lay Down Your Burdens – Part II). Additionally, with the surgeries and burn victims, there are other pharmacological needs and a pharmacy is where these things dwell. Other areas that we have seen or know about are a morgue, where Galactica-Boomer was stored; a laboratory (to do support simple blood type and matching to support surgery), optometry with a fabrication lab (William Adama wears glasses and as stated in other areas of this site, battlestars are designed for sustained operations). We are also can infer that Galactica has some preventive medicine / occupational health capability because in “Water”, there was a discussion about water recycling (leading to potable water). It is Preventive Medicine that does this task.

I would like to add that RDM and SciFi do a heck of a job weaving into the background all these things. As an experienced health services officer with over 22 years in the health care field, there is a tremendous amount of detail that happens in the background. If I was a casual observer, I might miss or not care about some of these things. As someone headed into harms way, I assure you that our fighting forces moral is impacted combat health support. I absolutely belive we need to address the medical capabilities of a battle star. The propose the best way is start with what it would look like at full strenght / desired capability. Clearly, Season 3 will start with two grossly undermanned battlestars, with very limited offensive combat capability.--[[User:Killerman|Killerman]] 22:10, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

:The citations you've provided make it much easier to include this information, and I thank you for taking the time to write this all out. The addition should improve the article considerably. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:21, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

::I am sorry, but this doesn't change much: the above information was gleaned from things we've seen on screen, and is thus informative and useful. However, the original entry to this article he made (speculative medical numbers, etc.)...isn't supported by any of these citations. Basically, they're two separate issues and should be treated separately. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 00:48, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Reverting to Killerman's last version isn't a good idea, but he (or we) can refactor his contribution using the points and evidence he raised above. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:57, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

::::Oh yes yes, something new and revised. Yes. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 01:24, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Manufacture vs. Assembly of Ammunition ==
The "assembly" activities that take place in [[Epiphanies]] would fall into the realm of "production", depending on how you look at it. It seemed like they were loading the casings (I thought RDM said they were going to use caseless ammo) with powder, seating the primer and inserting the bullet, turning the various components into a cartridge. Whether or not they produced the individual components (metal for bullets and casings would be easy, compounds for primers and powder probably harder to obtain), the act of putting those bits together would often be considered "manufacturing" ammunition. Not a big deal, and I didn't even change the text (since it's pretty debatable). An example of this use of the word is in this [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4044-2004Jul21_2.html Washington Post Article]:

"''Israeli Military Industries said the ammunition will be manufactured in Israel but the raw materials, including propellants, projectiles and primers, come from U.S. sources.''
"

Once again, not trying to start a war, just wanted to weigh in on a subject I knew a little about (since they so rarely come up). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:02, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Picture of destroyed Galactica-type Battlestar ==
Though certainly a model of a Galactica-type was used for the shot, it's clearly mentioned at the very beginning of the miniseries that ''Galactica'' is the only ship of it's kind still in service. The story places the shot only hours after the beginning of the attack, so it should be impossible that another Galactica-type (museum or mothballed in a reserve-fleet) could be readied for battle. Shouldn't the destroyed battlestar be taken as one of a third class between the Galactica-Type and Mercury-class, still looking a lot like the Galactica-type? [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 13:39, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:That was my impulse. Story logic dictates that the destroyed hulk probably wasn't a Galactica type, but in the real world we can surmise that Zoic probably re-used the Galactica model. Of course, from that distance, we could fudge our interpretation either way. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:50, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::They don't necessarily mean that there are no Galactica type battlestars in service besides the Big-G, it could be taken to mean none like Galactica, eg. non-refitted, no networks, etc. The battlestar there could easily (and belivably) be a refitted Galactica type. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:22, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::I concur with Talos, and that has been my understanding. Besides, unless the ship was simply overwhelmed by Cylon military brawn, an old-Cylon War battlestar would put up the same level of fight as ''Galactica'' would have. Else, it was just as vulnerable as the new battlestars. I agree, cinematically, that that Galactica model was just reused.--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:59, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:::[http://www.skyone.co.uk/programme/pgefeature.aspx?pid=3&fid=642 Something to ask] the big man himself? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 14:34, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I'll do that in a little bit, I have to pick up my brother from his band practice in a minute. The life of a college student living at home... --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:36, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I really doubt he's going to take the time to clarify such a niggling detail. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:39, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

It has always been my belief that Doral meant it was the only Galactica-type battlestar never refited. I always point to the ''U.S.S. Missouri'' (Mighty 'Mo) as an example of a ship with over 50 years of combat service that just kept getting refitted over time to the point that it was firing satellite-targeted cruise missiles at the end of its service. I think Galactica was just the only one that was never refitted. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:57, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:My point exactly. It's like the WWII era Essex class carriers. There were refits that were completly rebuilt but a few, essentially, originals survived until the early 1960s with the others serving thru Vietnam ([[Wikipedia:USS Oriskany (CVA-34)|USS Oriskany (CVA-34)]] for example). The [[Wikipedia:USS Lexington (CV-16)|USS Lexington (CV-16)]] was in service as a training ship until 1991! --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:26, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

::It's exactly the ''USS Missouri''-example why I believe that ''Galactica'' is the last of it's class: All four ''Iowa''-Class battleships were updated and they all were finally decommissoned (for now) between 1990 and 1992. If the ''Galactica'' is simply the only one not refitted one would have to ask why that wasn't done. Why would one refit three ''Iowas'' but not the last one? This usually only happens if a ship is somehow different from her sisters (e.g. having sustained heavy battledamage the refit is more expensive and not worth the effort). Also it could be that the fleet is being downsized, no longer needing all ships. An example for this would be the British [[Wikipedia:Illustrious class aircraft carrier|''Illustrious''-Class]] of World War II. Of these three carriers only one received an angled flight-deck, surviving the scrapping of the other two for twenty years. But in all these cases I find it hard to believe that anyone would describe one of the ships decommissioned first as ''the last of it's kind still in service'' if there others (refitted or not) still in action. Which ''Iowa'' would have been described that way prior to it's decommissioning: ''Iowa'' in 1990 or ''Missouri'' in 1992? Wasn't ''Lexington'' the last ''Essex''?
::What Doral says before and after that statement makes it quite clear that he's not talking about a certain detail (like ''last of it's kind without a network'' would have been). He starts with ''worldfamous Battlestar Galactica'', then ''last of her kind still in service'' followed by ''constructed 50 years ago as one of the first twelve battlestars, representing Caprica''. The only possible explanation for other Galactica-types this leaves would be ''Galactica'' being the last of the first twelve, with other Galactica-types coming from a second batch no longer representing specific colonys. But even then "last of her kind" is an usual choice of words to describe that. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 17:13, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-04-24T22:16:30Z

Nevfennas: /* Picture of destroyed Galactica-type Battlestar */ typo

:: Archive from [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Talk:Galactica_type_battlestar&oldid=47676 April 17, 2006]
== Medical Capabilites of a Battlestar ==

Peter,

Your assertion of "unfound speculation" concerning my contribution is uninformed and unfounded. I am a military medical planner and a published author. My assertion of the potential medical capabilities and requirements of an intergalactic warship (modeled on a US aircraft carrier), while hypothetical, is informed. Keep in mind these are requirements that the ship would have originally been built (not the "as is" state). At this point in the story line, clearly Major Cottle is the only doctor on Galactica, however we have never seen the Pegasus medical bay or any of its medical personnel. With established industrial facilities on Pegasus (Viper production established in “Scar”), the Pegasus would have evn greater Occupational Health / Preventive Medicine than Galactica. And if you do a walk down of the ancillary services (pharmacy (camala extract), orthopedic and x-ray (Kara’s knee injury), optometry (ADM Adama’s glasses), etc, you will see they exist even if they are not portrayed. Additionally, it was an Intensive Care Unit (ICU) bed, complete with ventilator, which William Adama was in during his multiple surgeries (establishing an Operation Room (OR)).

Capital ships are designed to go into battle, which means they will take damage and casualties. Often it is the ability to regenerate / repair / refit in the quickest amount of time that determines the outcome of battles. General Nathan Bedford Forrest of the Confederate States of America is famous for the quote, “He who gets there the fastest with the mostest wins.” RDM makes reference to his experience onboard a Navy ship in podcasts, including “The Captain’s Hand”. Thus, there is an established framework present.

I provide you two active hyperlinks that back up my contribution. While dated, they are still relevant.

http://www.mfp.usmc.mil/TeamApp/G4/Topics/20040916154046/Med%20Cont%20Factbook.pdf

www.iiimef.usmc.mil/medical/ FMF/FMFE/FMFEref/fs_man/CHAPTER%2014.html

--[[User:Killerman|Killerman]] 20:26, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

:I have no doubt that you are well qualified to speak about the medical capabilities of an aircraft carrier. I dispute their relevance to BSG, however. while they might provide a good baseline for guesswork, I don't think that simple guesswork belongs on this site. We don't extrapolate armament details based on the capabilities of modern naval vessels, for example. If you wanted, I wouldn't object to something along the lines of "we may conjecture that the medical facilities of a colonial battlestar are roughly comparable to those of a modern aircraft carrier" with one of the links you provided above; but I will not agree to listing out detailed specifications based on no in-continuity data. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:37, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

::''At last I went to the artisans. I was conscious that I knew nothing at all, as I may say, and I was sure that they knew many fine things; and here I was not mistaken, for they did know many things of which I was ignorant, and in this they certainly were wiser than I was. But I observed that even the good artisans fell into error;--because they were good workmen they thought that they also knew all sorts of high matters, and this defect in them overshadowed their wisdom;''
:::''The Apology of Socrates'', Plato

::Sir, none of us doubt that you know what you are talking about when you list the medical capabilities of a modern aicraft carrier. But this does not grant you increased insight into the inner logic of the tv series: First, we have no idea how many medical staff are onboard, and comparing it to an aircraft carrier is just speculation. Second, we have no idea how many crewmen a Mercury class battlestar normally has, as has been asked in the "Questions" segment of the "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]" episode guide article: Pegasus has 1,750 crewmen when it encounters Galactica, but A) It was going into drydock, and some of the crew may have left to the port, B) 700 crewmen died in the initial attack C) Cain impressed civillians she encounteed into service and most importantly C) Cain was fighting a hit and run war against the Cylons for months, which wore down her crew numbers through attrition. But I digress. Yes, we should object to a statement like "we may conjecture that medical facilities of a colonial battlestar are roughly comparable to those of a modern aircraft carrier". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:41, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

:::I guess you can object to that too, if you want. I was trying to compromise. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:48, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I'm sorry Peter but this is a really good example of the speculation I don't think we should be inserting into this kind of article. There is nothing to be gained from such a compromise. I would if there were, and would like to, but I can't change facts. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:51, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Peter,

As I am preparing to deploy for a year, please forgive me as I have packed all my BSG video. I grant you that the personnel numbers for a fully manned battlestar are informed speculation based upon a comparison to a modern aircraft carrier. I use these numbers as RDM has referenced a battlestar to a modern carrier, his experience in the Navy (podcast for The Captain’s Hand), Galactica type battlestar – article – dimensions’ jpg comparing a Battlestar to a CVN Image:Bsg-2-cvn.jpg on this very page. My professional training drives me to fill in unknowns with assumptions. That is what the personnel piece was intended and is consistent with other speculation within the Wiki, so long as it is said to be speculation (i.e. the actual working of an FTL drive). But sticking to the medical capabilities known from “in country (your term)” knowledge (i.e. seen on screen or in dialogue), we know much about Galactica. First, Galactica has a sickbay (Act of Contrition, Litmus). Exact bed count is not known, but is greater than seven (Act of Contrition). Based upon the burn victims (Act of Contrition) and treatment of William Adama (Scattered, Valley of Darkness, Fragged), we have seen Intensive Care Unit (ICU) beds, complete with ventilators, electrocardiograms (ECG), pulse / respiration / pulseox (shows percent of oxygen saturation dissolved in blood) monitors. We also have seen at least on operation room (OR) (Fragged), and subsequently confirm its existence with Kara Thrace’s knee surgery (Litmus) and Lee Adama’s chest surgery (Sacrifice). Concerning the radiology suite, we saw a Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI – incidentally, a very advanced piece of equipment) when Baltar had Dr. Cottle examine his head looking for an implanted chip (sorry, don’t remember the episode). We also saw conventional (chest) x-rays of Commander William Adama, during his surgery (Fragged, Scattered). We heard about Sharon’s ultrasound, as part of pre-natal health on Hera, where Dr. Cottle found an abnormality. And while not part of radiology, Hera, is placed in a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU) incubator, when is born prematurely. Next, we know it has a pharmacy. The President asked Dr. Cottle for Camala, the Viper pilots were taking “stims” (33, Final Cut) and Kara is taking pain killers for her knee surgery (Litmus) and latter asks Lee for antibiotics for Anders (Lay Down Your Burdens – Part II). Additionally, with the surgeries and burn victims, there are other pharmacological needs and a pharmacy is where these things dwell. Other areas that we have seen or know about are a morgue, where Galactica-Boomer was stored; a laboratory (to do support simple blood type and matching to support surgery), optometry with a fabrication lab (William Adama wears glasses and as stated in other areas of this site, battlestars are designed for sustained operations). We are also can infer that Galactica has some preventive medicine / occupational health capability because in “Water”, there was a discussion about water recycling (leading to potable water). It is Preventive Medicine that does this task.

I would like to add that RDM and SciFi do a heck of a job weaving into the background all these things. As an experienced health services officer with over 22 years in the health care field, there is a tremendous amount of detail that happens in the background. If I was a casual observer, I might miss or not care about some of these things. As someone headed into harms way, I assure you that our fighting forces moral is impacted combat health support. I absolutely belive we need to address the medical capabilities of a battle star. The propose the best way is start with what it would look like at full strenght / desired capability. Clearly, Season 3 will start with two grossly undermanned battlestars, with very limited offensive combat capability.--[[User:Killerman|Killerman]] 22:10, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

:The citations you've provided make it much easier to include this information, and I thank you for taking the time to write this all out. The addition should improve the article considerably. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:21, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

::I am sorry, but this doesn't change much: the above information was gleaned from things we've seen on screen, and is thus informative and useful. However, the original entry to this article he made (speculative medical numbers, etc.)...isn't supported by any of these citations. Basically, they're two separate issues and should be treated separately. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 00:48, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Reverting to Killerman's last version isn't a good idea, but he (or we) can refactor his contribution using the points and evidence he raised above. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:57, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

::::Oh yes yes, something new and revised. Yes. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 01:24, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Manufacture vs. Assembly of Ammunition ==
The "assembly" activities that take place in [[Epiphanies]] would fall into the realm of "production", depending on how you look at it. It seemed like they were loading the casings (I thought RDM said they were going to use caseless ammo) with powder, seating the primer and inserting the bullet, turning the various components into a cartridge. Whether or not they produced the individual components (metal for bullets and casings would be easy, compounds for primers and powder probably harder to obtain), the act of putting those bits together would often be considered "manufacturing" ammunition. Not a big deal, and I didn't even change the text (since it's pretty debatable). An example of this use of the word is in this [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4044-2004Jul21_2.html Washington Post Article]:

"''Israeli Military Industries said the ammunition will be manufactured in Israel but the raw materials, including propellants, projectiles and primers, come from U.S. sources.''
"

Once again, not trying to start a war, just wanted to weigh in on a subject I knew a little about (since they so rarely come up). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:02, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Picture of destroyed Galactica-type Battlestar ==
Though certainly a model of a Galactica-type was used for the shot, it's clearly mentioned at the very beginning of the miniseries that ''Galactica'' is the only ship of it's kind still in service. The story places the shot only hours after the beginning of the attack, so it should be impossible that another Galactica-type (museum or mothballed in a reserve-fleet) could be readied for battle. Shouldn't the destroyed battlestar be taken as one of a third class between the Galactica-Type and Mercury-class, still looking a lot like the Galactica-type? [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 13:39, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:That was my impulse. Story logic dictates that the destroyed hulk probably wasn't a Galactica type, but in the real world we can surmise that Zoic probably re-used the Galactica model. Of course, from that distance, we could fudge our interpretation either way. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:50, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::They don't necessarily mean that there are no Galactica type battlestars in service besides the Big-G, it could be taken to mean none like Galactica, eg. non-refitted, no networks, etc. The battlestar there could easily (and belivably) be a refitted Galactica type. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:22, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::I concur with Talos, and that has been my understanding. Besides, unless the ship was simply overwhelmed by Cylon military brawn, an old-Cylon War battlestar would put up the same level of fight as ''Galactica'' would have. Else, it was just as vulnerable as the new battlestars. I agree, cinematically, that that Galactica model was just reused.--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:59, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:::[http://www.skyone.co.uk/programme/pgefeature.aspx?pid=3&fid=642 Something to ask] the big man himself? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 14:34, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I'll do that in a little bit, I have to pick up my brother from his band practice in a minute. The life of a college student living at home... --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:36, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I really doubt he's going to take the time to clarify such a niggling detail. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:39, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

It has always been my belief that Doral meant it was the only Galactica-type battlestar never refited. I always point to the ''U.S.S. Missouri'' (Mighty 'Mo) as an example of a ship with over 50 years of combat service that just kept getting refitted over time to the point that it was firing satellite-targeted cruise missiles at the end of its service. I think Galactica was just the only one that was never refitted. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:57, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:My point exactly. It's like the WWII era Essex class carriers. There were refits that were completly rebuilt but a few, essentially, originals survived until the early 1960s with the others serving thru Vietnam ([[Wikipedia:USS Oriskany (CVA-34)|USS Oriskany (CVA-34)]] for example). The [[Wikipedia:USS Lexington (CV-16)|USS Lexington (CV-16)]] was in service as a training ship until 1991! --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:26, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

::It's exactly the ''USS Missouri''-example why I believe that ''Galactica'' is the last of it's class: All four ''Iowa''-Class battleships were updated and they all were finally decommissoned (for now) between 1990 and 1992. If the ''Galactica'' is simply the only one not refitted one would have to ask why that wasn't done. Why would one refit three ''Iowas'' but not the last one? This usually only happens if a ship is somehow different from her sisters (e.g. having sustained heavy battledamage the refit is more expensive and not worth the effort). Also it could be that the fleet is being downsized, no longer needing all ships. An example for this would be the British [[Wikipedia:Illustrious class aircraft carrier|''Illustrious''-Class]] of World War II. Of these three carriers only one received an angled flight-deck, surviving the scrapping of the other two for twenty years. But in all these cases I find it hard to believe that anyone would describe one of the ships decommissioned first as ''the last of it's kind still in service'' if there others (refitted or not) still in action. Which ''Iowa'' would have been described that way prior to it's decommissioning: ''Iowa'' in 1990 or ''Missouri'' in 1992? Wasn't ''Lexington'' the last ''Essex''?
::What Doral says before and after that statement makes it quite clear that he's not talking about a certain detail (like ''last of it's kind without a network'' would have been). He starts with ''worldfamous Battlestar Galactica'', then ''last of her kind still in service'' followed by ''constructed 50 years ago as one of the first twelve battlestars, representing Caprica''. The only possible explanation for other Galactica-types this leaves would be ''Galactica'' being the last of the first twelve, with other Galactica-types coming from a second batch no longer representing specific colonys. But even then "last of her kind" is an usual choice of words to descrive that. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 17:13, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-04-24T22:15:51Z

Nevfennas: /* Picture of destroyed Galactica-type Battlestar */ link

:: Archive from [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Talk:Galactica_type_battlestar&oldid=47676 April 17, 2006]
== Medical Capabilites of a Battlestar ==

Peter,

Your assertion of "unfound speculation" concerning my contribution is uninformed and unfounded. I am a military medical planner and a published author. My assertion of the potential medical capabilities and requirements of an intergalactic warship (modeled on a US aircraft carrier), while hypothetical, is informed. Keep in mind these are requirements that the ship would have originally been built (not the "as is" state). At this point in the story line, clearly Major Cottle is the only doctor on Galactica, however we have never seen the Pegasus medical bay or any of its medical personnel. With established industrial facilities on Pegasus (Viper production established in “Scar”), the Pegasus would have evn greater Occupational Health / Preventive Medicine than Galactica. And if you do a walk down of the ancillary services (pharmacy (camala extract), orthopedic and x-ray (Kara’s knee injury), optometry (ADM Adama’s glasses), etc, you will see they exist even if they are not portrayed. Additionally, it was an Intensive Care Unit (ICU) bed, complete with ventilator, which William Adama was in during his multiple surgeries (establishing an Operation Room (OR)).

Capital ships are designed to go into battle, which means they will take damage and casualties. Often it is the ability to regenerate / repair / refit in the quickest amount of time that determines the outcome of battles. General Nathan Bedford Forrest of the Confederate States of America is famous for the quote, “He who gets there the fastest with the mostest wins.” RDM makes reference to his experience onboard a Navy ship in podcasts, including “The Captain’s Hand”. Thus, there is an established framework present.

I provide you two active hyperlinks that back up my contribution. While dated, they are still relevant.

http://www.mfp.usmc.mil/TeamApp/G4/Topics/20040916154046/Med%20Cont%20Factbook.pdf

www.iiimef.usmc.mil/medical/ FMF/FMFE/FMFEref/fs_man/CHAPTER%2014.html

--[[User:Killerman|Killerman]] 20:26, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

:I have no doubt that you are well qualified to speak about the medical capabilities of an aircraft carrier. I dispute their relevance to BSG, however. while they might provide a good baseline for guesswork, I don't think that simple guesswork belongs on this site. We don't extrapolate armament details based on the capabilities of modern naval vessels, for example. If you wanted, I wouldn't object to something along the lines of "we may conjecture that the medical facilities of a colonial battlestar are roughly comparable to those of a modern aircraft carrier" with one of the links you provided above; but I will not agree to listing out detailed specifications based on no in-continuity data. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:37, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

::''At last I went to the artisans. I was conscious that I knew nothing at all, as I may say, and I was sure that they knew many fine things; and here I was not mistaken, for they did know many things of which I was ignorant, and in this they certainly were wiser than I was. But I observed that even the good artisans fell into error;--because they were good workmen they thought that they also knew all sorts of high matters, and this defect in them overshadowed their wisdom;''
:::''The Apology of Socrates'', Plato

::Sir, none of us doubt that you know what you are talking about when you list the medical capabilities of a modern aicraft carrier. But this does not grant you increased insight into the inner logic of the tv series: First, we have no idea how many medical staff are onboard, and comparing it to an aircraft carrier is just speculation. Second, we have no idea how many crewmen a Mercury class battlestar normally has, as has been asked in the "Questions" segment of the "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]" episode guide article: Pegasus has 1,750 crewmen when it encounters Galactica, but A) It was going into drydock, and some of the crew may have left to the port, B) 700 crewmen died in the initial attack C) Cain impressed civillians she encounteed into service and most importantly C) Cain was fighting a hit and run war against the Cylons for months, which wore down her crew numbers through attrition. But I digress. Yes, we should object to a statement like "we may conjecture that medical facilities of a colonial battlestar are roughly comparable to those of a modern aircraft carrier". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:41, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

:::I guess you can object to that too, if you want. I was trying to compromise. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:48, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I'm sorry Peter but this is a really good example of the speculation I don't think we should be inserting into this kind of article. There is nothing to be gained from such a compromise. I would if there were, and would like to, but I can't change facts. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:51, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Peter,

As I am preparing to deploy for a year, please forgive me as I have packed all my BSG video. I grant you that the personnel numbers for a fully manned battlestar are informed speculation based upon a comparison to a modern aircraft carrier. I use these numbers as RDM has referenced a battlestar to a modern carrier, his experience in the Navy (podcast for The Captain’s Hand), Galactica type battlestar – article – dimensions’ jpg comparing a Battlestar to a CVN Image:Bsg-2-cvn.jpg on this very page. My professional training drives me to fill in unknowns with assumptions. That is what the personnel piece was intended and is consistent with other speculation within the Wiki, so long as it is said to be speculation (i.e. the actual working of an FTL drive). But sticking to the medical capabilities known from “in country (your term)” knowledge (i.e. seen on screen or in dialogue), we know much about Galactica. First, Galactica has a sickbay (Act of Contrition, Litmus). Exact bed count is not known, but is greater than seven (Act of Contrition). Based upon the burn victims (Act of Contrition) and treatment of William Adama (Scattered, Valley of Darkness, Fragged), we have seen Intensive Care Unit (ICU) beds, complete with ventilators, electrocardiograms (ECG), pulse / respiration / pulseox (shows percent of oxygen saturation dissolved in blood) monitors. We also have seen at least on operation room (OR) (Fragged), and subsequently confirm its existence with Kara Thrace’s knee surgery (Litmus) and Lee Adama’s chest surgery (Sacrifice). Concerning the radiology suite, we saw a Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI – incidentally, a very advanced piece of equipment) when Baltar had Dr. Cottle examine his head looking for an implanted chip (sorry, don’t remember the episode). We also saw conventional (chest) x-rays of Commander William Adama, during his surgery (Fragged, Scattered). We heard about Sharon’s ultrasound, as part of pre-natal health on Hera, where Dr. Cottle found an abnormality. And while not part of radiology, Hera, is placed in a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU) incubator, when is born prematurely. Next, we know it has a pharmacy. The President asked Dr. Cottle for Camala, the Viper pilots were taking “stims” (33, Final Cut) and Kara is taking pain killers for her knee surgery (Litmus) and latter asks Lee for antibiotics for Anders (Lay Down Your Burdens – Part II). Additionally, with the surgeries and burn victims, there are other pharmacological needs and a pharmacy is where these things dwell. Other areas that we have seen or know about are a morgue, where Galactica-Boomer was stored; a laboratory (to do support simple blood type and matching to support surgery), optometry with a fabrication lab (William Adama wears glasses and as stated in other areas of this site, battlestars are designed for sustained operations). We are also can infer that Galactica has some preventive medicine / occupational health capability because in “Water”, there was a discussion about water recycling (leading to potable water). It is Preventive Medicine that does this task.

I would like to add that RDM and SciFi do a heck of a job weaving into the background all these things. As an experienced health services officer with over 22 years in the health care field, there is a tremendous amount of detail that happens in the background. If I was a casual observer, I might miss or not care about some of these things. As someone headed into harms way, I assure you that our fighting forces moral is impacted combat health support. I absolutely belive we need to address the medical capabilities of a battle star. The propose the best way is start with what it would look like at full strenght / desired capability. Clearly, Season 3 will start with two grossly undermanned battlestars, with very limited offensive combat capability.--[[User:Killerman|Killerman]] 22:10, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

:The citations you've provided make it much easier to include this information, and I thank you for taking the time to write this all out. The addition should improve the article considerably. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:21, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

::I am sorry, but this doesn't change much: the above information was gleaned from things we've seen on screen, and is thus informative and useful. However, the original entry to this article he made (speculative medical numbers, etc.)...isn't supported by any of these citations. Basically, they're two separate issues and should be treated separately. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 00:48, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Reverting to Killerman's last version isn't a good idea, but he (or we) can refactor his contribution using the points and evidence he raised above. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:57, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

::::Oh yes yes, something new and revised. Yes. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 01:24, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Manufacture vs. Assembly of Ammunition ==
The "assembly" activities that take place in [[Epiphanies]] would fall into the realm of "production", depending on how you look at it. It seemed like they were loading the casings (I thought RDM said they were going to use caseless ammo) with powder, seating the primer and inserting the bullet, turning the various components into a cartridge. Whether or not they produced the individual components (metal for bullets and casings would be easy, compounds for primers and powder probably harder to obtain), the act of putting those bits together would often be considered "manufacturing" ammunition. Not a big deal, and I didn't even change the text (since it's pretty debatable). An example of this use of the word is in this [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4044-2004Jul21_2.html Washington Post Article]:

"''Israeli Military Industries said the ammunition will be manufactured in Israel but the raw materials, including propellants, projectiles and primers, come from U.S. sources.''
"

Once again, not trying to start a war, just wanted to weigh in on a subject I knew a little about (since they so rarely come up). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:02, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Picture of destroyed Galactica-type Battlestar ==
Though certainly a model of a Galactica-type was used for the shot, it's clearly mentioned at the very beginning of the miniseries that ''Galactica'' is the only ship of it's kind still in service. The story places the shot only hours after the beginning of the attack, so it should be impossible that another Galactica-type (museum or mothballed in a reserve-fleet) could be readied for battle. Shouldn't the destroyed battlestar be taken as one of a third class between the Galactica-Type and Mercury-class, still looking a lot like the Galactica-type? [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 13:39, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:That was my impulse. Story logic dictates that the destroyed hulk probably wasn't a Galactica type, but in the real world we can surmise that Zoic probably re-used the Galactica model. Of course, from that distance, we could fudge our interpretation either way. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:50, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::They don't necessarily mean that there are no Galactica type battlestars in service besides the Big-G, it could be taken to mean none like Galactica, eg. non-refitted, no networks, etc. The battlestar there could easily (and belivably) be a refitted Galactica type. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:22, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::I concur with Talos, and that has been my understanding. Besides, unless the ship was simply overwhelmed by Cylon military brawn, an old-Cylon War battlestar would put up the same level of fight as ''Galactica'' would have. Else, it was just as vulnerable as the new battlestars. I agree, cinematically, that that Galactica model was just reused.--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:59, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:::[http://www.skyone.co.uk/programme/pgefeature.aspx?pid=3&fid=642 Something to ask] the big man himself? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 14:34, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I'll do that in a little bit, I have to pick up my brother from his band practice in a minute. The life of a college student living at home... --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:36, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I really doubt he's going to take the time to clarify such a niggling detail. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:39, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

It has always been my belief that Doral meant it was the only Galactica-type battlestar never refited. I always point to the ''U.S.S. Missouri'' (Mighty 'Mo) as an example of a ship with over 50 years of combat service that just kept getting refitted over time to the point that it was firing satellite-targeted cruise missiles at the end of its service. I think Galactica was just the only one that was never refitted. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:57, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:My point exactly. It's like the WWII era Essex class carriers. There were refits that were completly rebuilt but a few, essentially, originals survived until the early 1960s with the others serving thru Vietnam ([[Wikipedia:USS Oriskany (CVA-34)|USS Oriskany (CVA-34)]] for example). The [[Wikipedia:USS Lexington (CV-16)|USS Lexington (CV-16)]] was in service as a training ship until 1991! --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:26, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

::It's exactly the ''USS Missouri''-example why I believe that ''Galactica'' is the last of it's class: All four ''Iowa''-Class battleships were updated and they all were finally decommissoned (for now) between 1990 and 1992. If the ''Galactica'' is simply the only one not refitted one would have to ask why that wasn't done. Why would one refit three ''Iowas'' but not the last one? This usually only happens if a ship is somehow different from her sisters (e.g. having sustained heavy battledamage the refit is more expensive and not worth the effort). Also it could be that the fleet is being downsized, no longer needing all ships. An example for this would be the British [[Wikipedia:Illustrious class aircraft carrier|''Illustrious''-Class]] of World War II. Of these three carriers only one received an angled flight-deck, surviving the scrapping of the other two for twenty years. But in all these cases I find it hard to believe that anyone would describe one of the ships decommissioned first as ''the last of it's kind still in service'' if there others (refitted or not) still in action. Which ''Iowa'' would have been described that way prior to it's decommissioning: ''Iowa'' in 1990 or ''Missouri'' in 1992? Wasn't ''Lexington'' the last ''Essex''?
::What Doral says before and after that statement makes it quite clear that he's not talking about a certain detail (like ''last of it's kind without a network'' would have been). He starts with ''worldfamous Battlestar Galactica'', then ''last of her kind still in service'' followed by ''constructed 50 years ago as one of the first twelve battlestars, representing Caprica''. The only possible explanation for other Galactica-types this leaves would be ''Galactica'' being the last of the first twelve, with other Galactica-types coming from a second batch no longer representing specific colonys. But even than "last of her kind" is an usual choice of words to descrive that. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 17:13, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-04-24T22:13:21Z

Nevfennas: /* Picture of destroyed Galactica-type Battlestar */

:: Archive from [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Talk:Galactica_type_battlestar&oldid=47676 April 17, 2006]
== Medical Capabilites of a Battlestar ==

Peter,

Your assertion of "unfound speculation" concerning my contribution is uninformed and unfounded. I am a military medical planner and a published author. My assertion of the potential medical capabilities and requirements of an intergalactic warship (modeled on a US aircraft carrier), while hypothetical, is informed. Keep in mind these are requirements that the ship would have originally been built (not the "as is" state). At this point in the story line, clearly Major Cottle is the only doctor on Galactica, however we have never seen the Pegasus medical bay or any of its medical personnel. With established industrial facilities on Pegasus (Viper production established in “Scar”), the Pegasus would have evn greater Occupational Health / Preventive Medicine than Galactica. And if you do a walk down of the ancillary services (pharmacy (camala extract), orthopedic and x-ray (Kara’s knee injury), optometry (ADM Adama’s glasses), etc, you will see they exist even if they are not portrayed. Additionally, it was an Intensive Care Unit (ICU) bed, complete with ventilator, which William Adama was in during his multiple surgeries (establishing an Operation Room (OR)).

Capital ships are designed to go into battle, which means they will take damage and casualties. Often it is the ability to regenerate / repair / refit in the quickest amount of time that determines the outcome of battles. General Nathan Bedford Forrest of the Confederate States of America is famous for the quote, “He who gets there the fastest with the mostest wins.” RDM makes reference to his experience onboard a Navy ship in podcasts, including “The Captain’s Hand”. Thus, there is an established framework present.

I provide you two active hyperlinks that back up my contribution. While dated, they are still relevant.

http://www.mfp.usmc.mil/TeamApp/G4/Topics/20040916154046/Med%20Cont%20Factbook.pdf

www.iiimef.usmc.mil/medical/ FMF/FMFE/FMFEref/fs_man/CHAPTER%2014.html

--[[User:Killerman|Killerman]] 20:26, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

:I have no doubt that you are well qualified to speak about the medical capabilities of an aircraft carrier. I dispute their relevance to BSG, however. while they might provide a good baseline for guesswork, I don't think that simple guesswork belongs on this site. We don't extrapolate armament details based on the capabilities of modern naval vessels, for example. If you wanted, I wouldn't object to something along the lines of "we may conjecture that the medical facilities of a colonial battlestar are roughly comparable to those of a modern aircraft carrier" with one of the links you provided above; but I will not agree to listing out detailed specifications based on no in-continuity data. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:37, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

::''At last I went to the artisans. I was conscious that I knew nothing at all, as I may say, and I was sure that they knew many fine things; and here I was not mistaken, for they did know many things of which I was ignorant, and in this they certainly were wiser than I was. But I observed that even the good artisans fell into error;--because they were good workmen they thought that they also knew all sorts of high matters, and this defect in them overshadowed their wisdom;''
:::''The Apology of Socrates'', Plato

::Sir, none of us doubt that you know what you are talking about when you list the medical capabilities of a modern aicraft carrier. But this does not grant you increased insight into the inner logic of the tv series: First, we have no idea how many medical staff are onboard, and comparing it to an aircraft carrier is just speculation. Second, we have no idea how many crewmen a Mercury class battlestar normally has, as has been asked in the "Questions" segment of the "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]" episode guide article: Pegasus has 1,750 crewmen when it encounters Galactica, but A) It was going into drydock, and some of the crew may have left to the port, B) 700 crewmen died in the initial attack C) Cain impressed civillians she encounteed into service and most importantly C) Cain was fighting a hit and run war against the Cylons for months, which wore down her crew numbers through attrition. But I digress. Yes, we should object to a statement like "we may conjecture that medical facilities of a colonial battlestar are roughly comparable to those of a modern aircraft carrier". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:41, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

:::I guess you can object to that too, if you want. I was trying to compromise. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:48, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I'm sorry Peter but this is a really good example of the speculation I don't think we should be inserting into this kind of article. There is nothing to be gained from such a compromise. I would if there were, and would like to, but I can't change facts. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:51, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Peter,

As I am preparing to deploy for a year, please forgive me as I have packed all my BSG video. I grant you that the personnel numbers for a fully manned battlestar are informed speculation based upon a comparison to a modern aircraft carrier. I use these numbers as RDM has referenced a battlestar to a modern carrier, his experience in the Navy (podcast for The Captain’s Hand), Galactica type battlestar – article – dimensions’ jpg comparing a Battlestar to a CVN Image:Bsg-2-cvn.jpg on this very page. My professional training drives me to fill in unknowns with assumptions. That is what the personnel piece was intended and is consistent with other speculation within the Wiki, so long as it is said to be speculation (i.e. the actual working of an FTL drive). But sticking to the medical capabilities known from “in country (your term)” knowledge (i.e. seen on screen or in dialogue), we know much about Galactica. First, Galactica has a sickbay (Act of Contrition, Litmus). Exact bed count is not known, but is greater than seven (Act of Contrition). Based upon the burn victims (Act of Contrition) and treatment of William Adama (Scattered, Valley of Darkness, Fragged), we have seen Intensive Care Unit (ICU) beds, complete with ventilators, electrocardiograms (ECG), pulse / respiration / pulseox (shows percent of oxygen saturation dissolved in blood) monitors. We also have seen at least on operation room (OR) (Fragged), and subsequently confirm its existence with Kara Thrace’s knee surgery (Litmus) and Lee Adama’s chest surgery (Sacrifice). Concerning the radiology suite, we saw a Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI – incidentally, a very advanced piece of equipment) when Baltar had Dr. Cottle examine his head looking for an implanted chip (sorry, don’t remember the episode). We also saw conventional (chest) x-rays of Commander William Adama, during his surgery (Fragged, Scattered). We heard about Sharon’s ultrasound, as part of pre-natal health on Hera, where Dr. Cottle found an abnormality. And while not part of radiology, Hera, is placed in a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU) incubator, when is born prematurely. Next, we know it has a pharmacy. The President asked Dr. Cottle for Camala, the Viper pilots were taking “stims” (33, Final Cut) and Kara is taking pain killers for her knee surgery (Litmus) and latter asks Lee for antibiotics for Anders (Lay Down Your Burdens – Part II). Additionally, with the surgeries and burn victims, there are other pharmacological needs and a pharmacy is where these things dwell. Other areas that we have seen or know about are a morgue, where Galactica-Boomer was stored; a laboratory (to do support simple blood type and matching to support surgery), optometry with a fabrication lab (William Adama wears glasses and as stated in other areas of this site, battlestars are designed for sustained operations). We are also can infer that Galactica has some preventive medicine / occupational health capability because in “Water”, there was a discussion about water recycling (leading to potable water). It is Preventive Medicine that does this task.

I would like to add that RDM and SciFi do a heck of a job weaving into the background all these things. As an experienced health services officer with over 22 years in the health care field, there is a tremendous amount of detail that happens in the background. If I was a casual observer, I might miss or not care about some of these things. As someone headed into harms way, I assure you that our fighting forces moral is impacted combat health support. I absolutely belive we need to address the medical capabilities of a battle star. The propose the best way is start with what it would look like at full strenght / desired capability. Clearly, Season 3 will start with two grossly undermanned battlestars, with very limited offensive combat capability.--[[User:Killerman|Killerman]] 22:10, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

:The citations you've provided make it much easier to include this information, and I thank you for taking the time to write this all out. The addition should improve the article considerably. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:21, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

::I am sorry, but this doesn't change much: the above information was gleaned from things we've seen on screen, and is thus informative and useful. However, the original entry to this article he made (speculative medical numbers, etc.)...isn't supported by any of these citations. Basically, they're two separate issues and should be treated separately. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 00:48, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Reverting to Killerman's last version isn't a good idea, but he (or we) can refactor his contribution using the points and evidence he raised above. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:57, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

::::Oh yes yes, something new and revised. Yes. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 01:24, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Manufacture vs. Assembly of Ammunition ==
The "assembly" activities that take place in [[Epiphanies]] would fall into the realm of "production", depending on how you look at it. It seemed like they were loading the casings (I thought RDM said they were going to use caseless ammo) with powder, seating the primer and inserting the bullet, turning the various components into a cartridge. Whether or not they produced the individual components (metal for bullets and casings would be easy, compounds for primers and powder probably harder to obtain), the act of putting those bits together would often be considered "manufacturing" ammunition. Not a big deal, and I didn't even change the text (since it's pretty debatable). An example of this use of the word is in this [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4044-2004Jul21_2.html Washington Post Article]:

"''Israeli Military Industries said the ammunition will be manufactured in Israel but the raw materials, including propellants, projectiles and primers, come from U.S. sources.''
"

Once again, not trying to start a war, just wanted to weigh in on a subject I knew a little about (since they so rarely come up). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:02, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Picture of destroyed Galactica-type Battlestar ==
Though certainly a model of a Galactica-type was used for the shot, it's clearly mentioned at the very beginning of the miniseries that ''Galactica'' is the only ship of it's kind still in service. The story places the shot only hours after the beginning of the attack, so it should be impossible that another Galactica-type (museum or mothballed in a reserve-fleet) could be readied for battle. Shouldn't the destroyed battlestar be taken as one of a third class between the Galactica-Type and Mercury-class, still looking a lot like the Galactica-type? [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 13:39, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:That was my impulse. Story logic dictates that the destroyed hulk probably wasn't a Galactica type, but in the real world we can surmise that Zoic probably re-used the Galactica model. Of course, from that distance, we could fudge our interpretation either way. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:50, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::They don't necessarily mean that there are no Galactica type battlestars in service besides the Big-G, it could be taken to mean none like Galactica, eg. non-refitted, no networks, etc. The battlestar there could easily (and belivably) be a refitted Galactica type. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:22, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::I concur with Talos, and that has been my understanding. Besides, unless the ship was simply overwhelmed by Cylon military brawn, an old-Cylon War battlestar would put up the same level of fight as ''Galactica'' would have. Else, it was just as vulnerable as the new battlestars. I agree, cinematically, that that Galactica model was just reused.--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:59, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:::[http://www.skyone.co.uk/programme/pgefeature.aspx?pid=3&fid=642 Something to ask] the big man himself? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 14:34, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I'll do that in a little bit, I have to pick up my brother from his band practice in a minute. The life of a college student living at home... --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:36, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I really doubt he's going to take the time to clarify such a niggling detail. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:39, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

It has always been my belief that Doral meant it was the only Galactica-type battlestar never refited. I always point to the ''U.S.S. Missouri'' (Mighty 'Mo) as an example of a ship with over 50 years of combat service that just kept getting refitted over time to the point that it was firing satellite-targeted cruise missiles at the end of its service. I think Galactica was just the only one that was never refitted. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:57, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:My point exactly. It's like the WWII era Essex class carriers. There were refits that were completly rebuilt but a few, essentially, originals survived until the early 1960s with the others serving thru Vietnam ([[Wikipedia:USS Oriskany (CVA-34)|USS Oriskany (CVA-34)]] for example). The [[Wikipedia:USS Lexington (CV-16)|USS Lexington (CV-16)]] was in service as a training ship until 1991! --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:26, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

::It's exactly the ''USS Missouri''-example why I believe that ''Galactica'' is the last of it's class: All four ''Iowa''-Class battleships were updated and they all were finally decommissoned (for now) between 1990 and 1992. If the ''Galactica'' is simply the only one not refitted one would have to ask why that wasn't done. Why would one refit three ''Iowas'' but not the last one? This usually only happens if a ship is somehow different from her sisters (e.g. having sustained heavy battledamage the refit is more expensive and not worth the effort). Also it could be that the fleet is being downsized, no longer needing all ships. An example for this would be the British ''Illustrious''-Class of World War II. Of these three carriers only one received an angled flight-deck, surviving the scrapping of the other two for twenty years. But in all these cases I find it hard to believe that anyone would describe one of the ships decommissioned first as ''the last of it's kind still in service'' if there others (refitted or not) still in action. Which ''Iowa'' would have been described that way prior to it's decommissioning: ''Iowa'' in 1990 or ''Missouri'' in 1992? Wasn't ''Lexington'' the last ''Essex''?
::What Doral says before and after that statement makes it quite clear that he's not talking about a certain detail (like ''last of it's kind without a network'' would have been). He starts with ''worldfamous Battlestar Galactica'', then ''last of her kind still in service'' followed by ''constructed 50 years ago as one of the first twelve battlestars, representing Caprica''. The only possible explanation for other Galactica-types this leaves would be ''Galactica'' being the last of the first twelve, with other Galactica-types coming from a second batch no longer representing specific colonys. But even than "last of her kind" is an usual choice of words to descrive that. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 17:13, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

Water

2006-04-24T20:04:35Z

Nevfennas: /* Analysis */ clarification

{{Episode Data|
Image =[[Image:Water3.jpg|300px]]
| Title=Water
| Series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| Season=[[Season 1 (2004-05)|1]]
| Episode=2
| Guests=
| Writer=[[Ronald D. Moore]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Marita Grabiak]]
| Production=1.02
| Rating= 2.6
| US Airdate=January 14 2005
| UK Airdate=October 25 2004
| DVD=March 28 2005 (UK) September 20 2005 (US)
| Population= 47,958
| Prev=[[33]]
| Next=[[Bastille Day]]
}}
== Overview ==

: '' ''Galactica'' loses over 60% of her water reserves due to sabotage, forcing the fleet into a crisis and Adama to seek a new supply.''

== Summary ==
* [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] finds herself dripping wet in her [[flight suit]], sitting in an equipment room on the flight deck. She is disoriented, and upon opening a duffel bag containing her uniform, she discovers explosives complete with a detonator.
* After drying and dressing herself, she goes to a small-arms locker and finds that a further six detonators are missing, throwing her into a panic and seeking [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol’s]] help.
* [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] visits ''[[Galactica]]'' to thank the crew for their hard work in defending the fleet following the recent events ([[33]]).
* Protocol is observed during her visit, with officers in dress uniform, etc. Roslin believes this is because [[William Adama|Adama]] is trying to make her look an idiot; [[Lee Adama]] informs her that his father ordered the reception out of respect for her position as President.
* The ''[[Virgon Express]]'' arrives alongside, ready to take on new water supplies. This reveals that ''Galactica'' can recycle water for those ships in the fleet that don’t have recycling facilities themselves.
* In the equipment locker, Tyrol and Boomer discuss the missing explosives. Boomer is on the verge of a breakdown. Tyrol promises he’ll see her through the situation, convinced someone is trying to frame her.
* As the water transfer operation commences, a series of explosions rip through the warship, rupturing her water tanks and spewing most of her massive reserves of drinking water into space.
* An investigation of the explosion begins. It is ascertained that 60% of ''Galactica’s'' reserves of water have been lost, leaving the fleet with a critical shortage. Because of its recycling/storage capabilities, 16,000 people are dependent on ''Galactica'' for drinkable water.
* Pushed to give a reason for the loss of the water, Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta]] presumes that the detonation of a nuclear warhead close to the water tanks ([[Miniseries]]) may have weakened the tanks, causing them to rupture.
* During his presentation to investigators, Tyrol admits sabotage was the cause of the explosions, revealing the fact that explosives had been taken from a small-arms locker, but covering for Valerii by saying it is unlikely they will discover who took the explosives as security throughout the ship has been lax, and recordkeeping patchy, at best.
* Adama orders the [[Raptor]]s to be flown to the nearest star systems in an attempt to find an alternative source of water.
* Reducing the number of people in the inquiry to senior command staff, Roslin and Baltar, Adama reveals the truth about the [[Cylon agent|Cylon agent]] threat, stating his belief that there is a Cylon infiltrator aboard ''Galactica''.
* [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] is quizzed about his progress on constructing a working [[Cylon detector]]. He makes various excuses for his lack of progress, all of which Adama takes to mean he needs assistance on the project, and so assigns Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]] to aid him.
* Following the meeting, Gaeta leaves with Baltar, who is not happy about having someone “watching” him. He escapes Gaeta by joining one of [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck’s]] card games and ends up flirting with her.
* Boomer locates water, but has problems trying to report the find while a part of her tries to detonate explosives that have been strapped to her chair.
* When she finally makes the report, she and [[Crashdown]] return to ''Galactica'' to be greeted like heroes.
* Boomer gets Tyrol to check her seat, where he finds the explosives. He later reveals to Boomer he has handed the explosives to the [[Master-at-Arms]], assuring her that this is good, as it puts the Master onto the same lines of investigation they are now pursuing.
* On ''[[Colonial One]]'', impressed at the way Lee Adama helped her through the pomp of her reception on ''Galactica'' at the start of the episode, Roslin asks him to become a special advisor to her, to help her understand military jargon and protocol. She also tries to help him come to terms with the destruction of the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' ([[33]]), which has been plaguing his conscience.

===On Caprica===
* [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Valerii]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] have returned to Valerii's [[Raptor]], to find it crawling with Cylon warriors.
* Deciding they cannot use it to escape [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], they head off to "find another ship".
* Later that night, over a meal and anti-radiation shots, they receive a coded transmission, Valerii prompting Helo into the idea that someone else - probably military - is still alive on the planet.

== Summary from scifi.com ==
Lt. Sharon Valerii wakes up soaking wet in the tool room with an explosive charge in her duffel bag. Shortly afterward, a mysterious explosion destroys all the port-side water tanks on Galactica, creating a crisis for the entire fleet. Sharon can't remember a thing, but all the evidence points to her as a saboteur. She confesses her concern to Chief Tyrol, but he can't believe she's responsible.

As water riots erupt, Commander Adama and President Roslin struggle to contain the crisis, putting all the ships on limited rations and assigning Baltar the job of rooting out any Cylons who may have infiltrated the crew.

Meanwhile, on Cylon-occupied Caprica, another avatar of Sharon struggles to save Helo, her stranded Raptor crewmate.
--©2005, [http://www.scifi.com SCI FI]. All rights reserved.

== Questions ==

*Is Boomer completely unaware of her "Cylon" personality, which apparently planted the explosives? (Answer: [[Resistance|Boomer never seems to know]], even to her end.)
*If so, why did she "wake up" before her Cylon persona had completely covered its tracks (i.e. got out of the wet clothes, got her back to her bunk, etc., so she'd be completely unaware of her outing to the water tanks)?
*Why did a part of Boomer attempt to blow-up her Raptor when the water-bearing moon was found? Surely she must have been aware that had the Raptor been destroyed, a Search and Rescue mission would have been initiated, with a good probability that the water would have been discovered anyway?
*Is the radio message picked-up by Helo on Caprica genuine, or a Cylon fake, designed to keep him on the planet? ([[Act of Contrition|Answer]])
*600-odd tons of food a week is a lot of consumables to have available. Where is it all coming from? (Answer: [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]] comprises many ships, apparently including many supply ships with consumables.)
*Do the Colonials have food recycling capabilities to match their water recycling capabilities?
*Why do the Cylons want to keep Helo on Caprica? ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|Answer 1]], [[The Farm|Answer 2]])

== Analysis ==

“Water” builds nicely on the events of "[[33]]" while adding new drama of its own, revealing more about the central characters while at the same time avoiding the “reset” button: three days on from the ''Olympic Carrier'' incident, and the repercussions are still being felt by Lee Adama and Laura Roslin. At the same time Roslin seeks to find a balance in her relationship with Commander Adama, who is also willing to try and move beyond the tension that marked their initial relationship during the fleet’s initial flight from the Cylons: the presentation of the book being something of a peace offering.

But the focus of this episode is obviously “Boomer” Valerii, and raises some interesting questions around her.

It has already been established that some Cylons may not even know they are Cylons until they are “activated” (as stated by Six in the Miniseries). “Water” sees a new wrinkle added: that the Cylon “personality” within a Cylon agent can be active without the apparent knowledge of the “human” personality. Boomer's “waking up” scene and subsequent reactions demonstrate that her human persona has no idea of what is going on. Her confusion is genuine and complete, right down to the fact that she has lost track of time (wishing Cally a “good evening”, only for Cally to tell her it is early morning).

However, while this is interesting in itself, it actually masks an even more interesting question: why did Boomer “wake up” while still sopping wet and hiding in the equipment locker? If her Cylon personality wished to remain hidden, why did it not stay in control until she had dried herself off, stowed the duffel bag and the explosives and returned to her bunk? That she finds herself in such a state would tend to suggest that her Cylon personality is not in full control when conscious. Could it be that Valerii’s “programming” as a human is a little too strong, and that there is some kind of internal struggle going on inside her? (Given the events in [[Home, Part II]] and other second season episodes, it may well be that the Valerii model is flawed and can reprogram itself for self-preservation, or may not have full defenses against its human personality plant.)

If this is the case, then might the same conflict overcome her “sister” on Caprica? If so, there is potential for whatever the Cylons have in mind for Helo to go awry. (Answer: [[Flight of the Phoenix|Caprica Valerii does]], indeed, become a turncoat or yet another Cylon manipulation tactic.)

The episode also reveals a little more about ''Galactica’s'' capabilities: the fact that her water recycling systems are around 100% efficient - so much so that she can operate for years without needing to take on fresh water supplies, and she's more than able to recycle water on behalf of a third of the other vessels in the fleet - thus supplying an additional 16,000 people with fresh water. While this is interesting in itself, that the production crew tackle such a vital requirement as water so early on in the series is highly suggestive that they do not intend to forget that some 45,000 people are going to require a lot of food and drink. Given the fact that this episode highlights the food requirements – some 590 tons a week - would tend to indicate this is an issue that will be dealt with at some point in the future. It’s hard to imagine the fleet can supply this much food to its people indefinitely.

Overall, another outstanding episode - lead by a very strong "A" storyline involving Boomer and the water sabotage, but with more than enough scope to provide insight into the characters and their developing relationships without bogging down the action. Not even Tigh's tightrope walk with alcoholism is forgotten, thanks to his discovery of his five fingers of booze. And it is nice to see ''Galactica'' still continues to carry the scars for her first run-in with the Cylons back in the mini - the outer skin of the forward end of her portside flight pod is still something of a mess.

== Notes ==

*Galactica has at least 5 Raptors on board.
*Colonials have an equivalent plastic explosive to C-4 (called [[G-4]]).
*The Cylons have stood down from their attacks in "[[33]]".
*[[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] states that only three Marines know that the Cylons look human. [[Crashdown]]'s comment to [[Sharon]] in "33" indicates that at least one of them is responsible for leaking this information to others.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
#[[Media:102_responsibility_for_your_actions-01.ogg|William and Lee Adama discuss responsibility for an action]] (OGG, 479 KB)

== Official Statements ==

=== {{from_RDM_blog}} ===
:One of the strange things about writing and producing television is the delay between action and reaction. Tomorrow night's episode was written almost a year ago. The battles, thoughts, emotions, disappointments, and victories happened in what seems like the distant past, so when I sit down to watch the show along with the rest of you (and I do watch them on the air) it's like seeing a page out of an old year book. I can remember bits and pieces of the production process, the early drafts of the script, the days spent in the editing bay playing with the footage and waiting for the visual effects to be completed, but none of it is current, all of it belongs to a season now firmly planted in the past.

:However, I do find that the same distance from the rigors of production also afford a better vantage point for watching the show with something approaching objectivity. You get so used to an episode during all the aspects of production that the simple pleasure of watching it as a piece of entertainment is slowly vacuumed away over time. Only now, months after the fact, can I watch these shows from a little remove and my impressions of the episodes are often not the same as when we produced them.

:For instance, during the shoot of "Water" and shortly afterward, I was acutely aware of just how long the script was and how much material was going to have to be lost along the way. I was fairly upset with myself for writing something so bloated and large that it was killing us on the stage and would later require major surgery in the editing room to make our mandated runtime. The first cut of "Water" ran 10-12 minutes long -- essentially an entire act that had to go -- and for a long time when I watched the final locked picture I was always uncomfortably aware of the "cheats" involved. That is, the dropped scenes, the internal cuts made to scenes that made a hash of some of the logic I'd tried to lay out, the half-expressed thoughts, the missing emotional beats, etc.

:However, when I saw the final aired episode, I was hard-pressed to even remember most of the cuts or why they had bothered me in the first place. (Although I still [[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)|missed a nice bit]] with [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] in the [[Wardroom]], where he tossed off a theory of how six small charges could've blown open the water tank, as it was both helpful to the plot and an entertaining bit of grandstanding by the character.) Frankly, I used to think of "Water" as one of the weaker shows in the first season, but now it seems like a fairly coherent piece.

:Of course, this kind of shift in perspective after shedding the baggage of production works both ways, and I've found that sometimes revisited shows much later that I'd always considered to be "classics" turned out to lose their charm along with the experience of making it. So as we go forward, I'm both excited and vaguely terrified at how I'll view the rest of the season.

:Speaking of excited and terrified, I must admit to being overwhelmed by the response you've generated regarding this blog. There's a remarkable backlog of questions on the board and I'll try to both post here more often and answer more of your questions. I don't know what to tell you in terms of what will catch my eye, but I'll try to look for both the straight-ahead fan questions and the more off the wall questions -- don't be afraid to venture far off-topic, some of the more interesting discussions I had at ''Trek'' had nothing to do with the show itself.

== Guest stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as Colonel [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] Crewman Specialist [[Cally]]
*[[Paul Campbell]] as [[Billy Keikeya]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as Lt. [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Samuel Witwer]] as [[Crashdown]]

== Statistics ==


== External Links ==
[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season01/102/ "Water"] at scifi.com

{{Episode List}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Marita Grabiak]]

[[es:Agua]]

Talk:Home, Part I/Archive 1

2006-04-24T18:56:18Z

Nevfennas: more typos

Information at: http://www.pegasusgalaxy.com/forums/index.php?s=b4fa8f3820cdd0bf22c96fd5ff775b1b&showtopic=1128

[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:00, 18 May 2005 (EDT)

== Ack! It WAS "Home, Part I" ==

So, who's up for getting the pages moved? [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:20, 20 Aug 2005 (EDT)

:It just says "Home" as the title: this page should be "Home, part I" [[User talk:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23 Aug 2005 EDT
::Done. The page was moved to "Home, Part I". The template was also adjusted. 00:34, 24 Aug 2005 (EDT)

== Fleet Population ==

In "[[33]]" 5,251 of 47,273 survivors are from [[Sagittaron]] before the destruction of the [[Olympic Carrier]] (thats 11%). Even if all people aboard the ''Olympic Carrier'' are from Sagitarron that would still leave 3900 or 8% of the population from that colony, a total of 40~55% of the population not from Gemenon and Caprica. That is possible if Sagittaron was close to Caprica, or at least the route between those two Colonies near the point the convoy massed with many ships traveling on that route from Sagittaron to Caprica in the convoy. However I'm not sure how to add these numbers into the count given the uncertainty and the differences in the ship-count between "33" and "Home, Part I". [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 13:56, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Home, Part I/Archive 1

2006-04-24T18:54:34Z

Nevfennas:

Information at: http://www.pegasusgalaxy.com/forums/index.php?s=b4fa8f3820cdd0bf22c96fd5ff775b1b&showtopic=1128

[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 16:00, 18 May 2005 (EDT)

== Ack! It WAS "Home, Part I" ==

So, who's up for getting the pages moved? [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 01:20, 20 Aug 2005 (EDT)

:It just says "Home" as the title: this page should be "Home, part I" [[User talk:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23 Aug 2005 EDT
::Done. The page was moved to "Home, Part I". The template was also adjusted. 00:34, 24 Aug 2005 (EDT)

== Fleet Population ==

In [[33]] 5,251 of 47,273 survivors are from [[Sagitarron]] before the destruction of the [[Olympic Carrier]] (thats 11%). Even if all people aboard the ''Olympic Carrier'' are from Sagitarron that would still leave 3900 or 8% of the population from that colony, a total of 40~55% of the population not from Gemenon and Caprica. That is possible if Sagittarion was close to Caprica, or at least the route between those two Colonies near the point the convoy massed with many ships traveling on that route from Sagittarion to Caprica in the convoy. However I'm not sure how to add these numbers into the count given the uncertainty and the differences in the ship-count between "33" and "Home, Part I". [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 13:54, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-04-24T18:39:10Z

Nevfennas:

Atlantia

2006-04-24T18:29:11Z

Nevfennas: /* Re-imagined Series */

The battlestar '''''Atlantia''''' is the flagship of the Colonial Fleet in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]] and the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]].

==[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]]==

The battlestar ''Atlantia'' features integrated command and control systems and Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]]'s [[Command Navigation Program]] (CNP). She is selected by Admiral [[Nagala]] as his/her flagship during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon Attack]] after [[Fleet Headquarters]] on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]] is destroyed.

''Atlantia'' herself is soon destroyed over [[the Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Virgon|Virgon]], a victim of the computer virus spread by the Cylons using the compromised CNP ([[Miniseries]]).

It was on ''Atlantia'' that [[William Adama]] made his 1,000th Viper landing ([[Act of Contrition]]). At one point in his career, Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]] served aboard ''Atlantia'' before finally being assigned to ''[[Galactica]]'' ([[Resistance]]).

''Atlantia'' is only mentioned but never seen in the [[Miniseries]].

==[[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|The Original Series]]==
[[Image:tos_atlantia.jpg|thumb|Battlestar Atlantia (credit: Universal / ABC)]]

''Atlantia'' is where the [[Quorum of Twelve (TOS)|Quorum of Twelve]] meet in anticipation of the coming treaty between humanity and the [[Cylons (TOS)|Cylons]] that will bring to an end the [[Thousand-Yahren War]].

''Atlantia'' is destroyed when the treaty rendezvous at [[Cimtar]] becomes a trap, along with four of remaining battlestars of the Colonial fleet, with only ''[[Galactica (TOS)|Galactica]]'' surviving to fend the Cylons ([[Saga of a Star World]]).

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (TOS)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (TOS)]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:TOS]]
[[Category:Video Game Ships]]
[[Category:Battlestars]]

[[de:Atlantia]]
[[es:Atlantia]]

Colonial Fleet (TRS)/old

2006-04-24T18:28:14Z

Nevfennas: It's unknown who commanded the fleet before the headquarters destruction

The '''Colonial Fleet''' is the primary armed service branch under the jurisdiction of the [[Ministry of Defense]].

The Colonial Fleet operates in tandem with another branch of the armed services, the [[Colonial Marine Corps]]. The Colonial Fleet also has a Reserve branch, of which [[Lee Adama]] was a member ([[Final Cut]]).

The Fleet was based at [[Picon Fleet Headquarters]]. After the Headquarters destruction during the [[Cylon Holocaust]] the Fleet was under the leadership of Admiral [[Nagala]]. Other identified Fleet installations included the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]], [[Ragnar Anchorage]], and the [[Armistice Station]].

==Fleet Status==
At the time of the Cylon holocaust, the Colonial Fleet included approximately 120 battlestars (with estimated around 10,000 [[Vipers]], assuming 80 Vipers embarked per [[battlestar]] plus orbital defence squadrons, see [[Battlestar]]) as well as hundreds of [[Raptors]]. The Colonial Fleet was regarded by the Cylons to be a decisively superior force in a straight-up fight, which is why they resorted to sabotaging Colonial defences electronically ("[[Downloaded]]").

:''In the [[Miniseries]], [[William Adama]] tells Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]] when she's released from the brig "We lost 30 battlestars in the opening attack". She responds, "That's a quarter of the fleet." This establishes that there were approximately 120 active battlestars at the beginning of the Miniseries.''

The existence of [[Battlestar Group]]s strongly suggests that there were other military vessels in support roles, akin to an [[Wikipedia:aircraft carrier battle group|aircraft carrier battle group]].

As noted on the official [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/ SciFi Channel Battlestar Galactica web site], the Colonial Fleet also included modified [[Space Park]] vessels (although the single Space Park liner shown in ''Galactica's'' [[The Fleet (RDM)|Rag-tag Fleet]] is very likely a civilian liner).

Battlestars mentioned destroyed in the Cylon Attack included the ''[[Triton]]'', ''[[Solaria]]'', ''[[Columbia]]'', and ''[[Atlantia]]'' (commanded by Admiral [[Nagala]]). According to Admiral [[Helena Cain]], two unnamed battlestars and three other ships (type unknown, but presumed military vessels) were destroyed in the [[Fall of the Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]].

[[Pegasus (episode)|Currently]], the only two Colonial Fleet capital warships known to have survived the attack are the battlestars ''[[Galactica]]'' and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', which guard a [[The Fleet (RDM)|fleet of civilian ships]].

==Ships of the Colonial Fleet==
* [[Galactica type battlestar]]
* [[Mercury class battlestar]]
* [[Raptor]]
* [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]]

[[Category:RDM]][[Category:A to Z]][[Category:Colonial Military]]

[[es:Flota Colonial]]

Home, Part I

2006-04-24T17:59:03Z

Nevfennas: /* Analysis */

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Home_pt1_debate.jpg|300px]]
| Title=Home, Part I
| Series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| Season=[[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode=6
| Guests=
| Writer=[[David Eick]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| Production=2.06
| Rating= 2.1
| US Airdate=August 19 2005
| UK Airdate=February 14 2006
| DVD=December 20 2005 (US Season 2.0)
| Population=47,858
| Prev=[[The Farm]]
| Next=[[Home, Part II]]
}}
== Overview ==

:''The refugee fleet splits into two factions: one led by [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] and [[Tom Zarek|Zarek]], the other by [[William Adama]]. However, Apollo is less than enthusiastic to be working with Zarek.''

== Summary ==

=== On Galactica ===

* The events of this episode appear to begin immediately after [[The Farm]]. Adama appoints Birch as CAG at the end of that day or the morning of the next, and his foibles appear to consume at least a day, possibly two.
* With [[Lee Adama]] [[Wikipedia:AWOL|AWOL]], [[William Adama|Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] are going over possible new [[CAG]]s. As Tigh reluctantly points out, none of them are Apollo.
* Unbeknownst to Tigh, Adama has already made his choice: Lieutenant [[George Birch]], now promoted to Captain. Adama had only called in Tigh, hoping that he and his XO were "on the same page". During the whole discussion, he is crushing walnuts in his hands. During his speech to Birch, he states that everyone on the Galactica is family, including his sons.
* Meanwhile, Adama has another problem; the Press. He attempts to communicate to them about the segmentation in the Fleet. The attempt backfires, with questions from the press remaining unanswered.
* In the compartment over, [[Gaius Baltar]] is looking into the corridor from the hatch's threshold. Now having the knowledge that there are eight [[Cylon agent]]s onboard, he is becoming increasing paranoid. Six attempts to soothe him, claiming that he does not share the other human's fate. She also goes on to say that humans are masters of self-destruction.
* As the new CAG, Birch is enthusiastic and attempts to grow into his new role. One of his new duties is to lead combat exercises. In an asteroid field, [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] are to practice attack runs on an asteroid.
** Hot Dog fires a missile at the primary target, only to wing it (and earn a scolding from Birch, who states that he knows Hot Dog can do better).
** A communications glitch during the target exercise causes both Hot Dog and Kat to think they are each cleared for their attack runs. Birch fails to resolve the confusion, and a tragedy almost occurs: Hot Dog releases another missile while Kat begins strafing the primary asteroid target. The missile causes the asteroid to splinter, the debris from it almost killing Kat. While her Viper is winged, Kat manages to make it out alive.
* Another incident occurs, when two vessels (a fuel tanker and a civilian ship) are attempting a straight-forward refuel op. Birch has been supervising the op, which has been running for four hours. Tigh firmly notes that while Birch is Adama's man, he is green and inexperienced.
** Adama orders the op be aborted, but not in time to prevent the ships from colliding. Fortunately, the resultant damage is non-critical.
* Adama talks to Dee in his cabin. Dee speaks her mind, saying that everyone is separated; parents and children, friends. After the emotional discussion, Adama attempts to dismiss her. She refuses, saying that it is time to heal the wounds.
* As Adama is walking through Galactica's empty corridors, he reflects. After his reflection, he returns to [[CIC]], where he orders that the intel on [[Kobol]] be brought to his office. "It's time to put the Fleet back together," he states, matter-of-factly.

=== On [[Astral Queen]] ===

* Members of the [[Quorum of Twelve]], Roslin, and [[Lee Adama]] are arguing over what their next move should be. Roslin attempts to persuade everyone to await [[Kara Thrace]]'s (Starbuck's) return with the [[Arrow of Apollo]]; she is steadfast in her belief that the Arrow will open the [[Tomb of Athena]], which holds the way to [[Earth]].
* An unidentified ship is approaching Roslin's fleet. Zarek and Meier are preparing to have a nearby ship with missile batteries, the ''[[Adriatic]]'', attack the unidentified ship. President Roslin joins the discussion and argues that they should wait; Meier argues that the unidentified vessel should be destroyed before leaving the weapons range of the nearby ship.
* Just in time, Starbuck's voice is heard over the wireless hailing them from the unidentified ship. Starbuck's appropriated troop carrier is permitted to dock.
* Apollo reunites with Starbuck, impulsively kissing her, to her surprise. Apollo is shocked to discover that Starbuck and Helo have brought [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica-Valerii]] back with them. He goes berserk, grabbing Valerii and shoving his pistol in her face. [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] approaches from behind, placing a gun against Apollo's head.
* Roslin defuses the situation, with both men putting down their arms. She then turns about and orders "put that thing [Valerii] out the airlock!" to be executed. Valerii is dragged off, but claims to know how to find the Tomb of Athena. Roslin then spares the "young woman"'s life, if only temporarily.
* Apollo spends some time talking to Starbuck, trying to convince her to open up to him and assuring her he will be there for her. During this discussion he lets it slip that he loves her. Although he later insists he didn't say it, Starbuck doesn't let him get away with taking it back.
* Zarek and Meier have a private discussion: Zarek is looking to command the new fleet to freedom that he has "promised". Meier discusses the fact that they need Roslin, but find that Adama may be a problem. During this conversation, Meier brings up the point that Elosa made: according to the scriptures, there is a price for landing on Kobol, and it is paid in blood. It is insinuated that Lee Adama should be the one to pay the so-called price.

=== On [[Kobol]] ===

* A contingent, including Meier, Zarek, Valerii, Agathon, Thrace, [[Elosha]], Roslin and Apollo, land on Kobol. Elosha (reading from the scriptures) and Valerii (reciting scripture from memory) state that the path to Athena's Tomb is along a stone ridge.
[[Image:Home_pt1_mourning.jpg|thumb|300px|Roslin, et al. mourn the loss of Elosha on Kobol. (C. SciFi Channel)]]
* While following the ridge, Elosha comments that it should be littered with gravestones. She finds one; Valerii senses danger, but it is already too late. Elosha steps on a trigger which releases two "[[Wikipedia:Bouncing_betty|Bouncing Betty]]"-type antipersonnel mines; the shrapnel from the exploding mines strikes her and alerts the [[Cylon Centurion]]s to their presence. Entrenched in a high position, the trio of Centurions attempts to wipe out the party -- Helo takes out one, Thrace and Lee Adama take out another, and Valerii runs off, only to use a grenade launcher to take out the remaining Centurion.
* Elosha is found dead and Roslin tearfully retrieves the blood-covered book of scriptures from her.

== Questions ==
* As Lieutenant Valerii demonstrates, the Cylons have excellent knowledge of the Colonials' scriptures, sufficient to anticipate mining the path alongside the gravestones, for example. What other nasty surprises are in store for the party on Kobol? Will the Tomb of Athena which they expect to find even be the "real" tomb?
* Agathon is seemingly aghast at the treatment of Sharon upon boarding the ''Astral Queen''. What did [[Karl Agathon]] expect when a glorified poster child for humanity's genocidists falls into the hands of the survivors? Did he hope to hide that she was a Cylon -- or hope that they would be merciful?
* Will Agathon be put up for charges for his attempted assault of Lee Adama? (Answer: Not this time, but his protective instincts will get him into trouble [[Pegasus (episode)|later]].)
* What "fate" is Baltar's internal Six referring to? How will Baltar be "spared"?
* Given the press' reactionary ferocity regarding the martial law edict, has the press hounded Baltar regarding martial law and his now-powerless position as Vice President of the Colonies? If not, why?
* Will Thrace eventually heal from her emotional trauma experienced in the Cylon breeding farm? How will she deal with it, particularly as a previous victim of child abuse?
* How will Thrace and Lee Adama pursue their relationship, now that Adama has admitted his feelings for her?
* What is the exact nature of Dee and William Adama's relationship? It seems more personal on an emotional level for both of them; leaving this question to be asked: What has Dee done to deserve this level of Adama's trust?
* When will a rescue mission be mounted for the Caprican survivors?
* How will Zarek and Meier deal with dispatching Lee Adama?
* With Elosha dead, will there be another spiritual advisor filling that vacuum?
** Since she died on Kobol, is it true that her soul is also gone? (Providing that the "soul" exists in the Battlestar universe, of course.)
*Why does Tigh suggest [[Perry]] as a choice for new CAG? He was killed in the Battle for the Tylium Asteroid in "[[The Hand of God]]", and was a nugget besides. Is there another pilot of the same name?

== Analysis ==
*The [[Arrow of Apollo]] looks rather ornate for a functional arrow. It may instead have once served as a symbol of religious or temporal authority, not unlike the [[Wikipedia:Crown Jewels of the United Kingdom|Britsh Crown Jewels]].
*The 9,500 Gemenons in the Roslin faction alone represent 20% of the fleet population. If the populations of the 12 colonies were represented equally throughout the fleet, they should each represent approximately 8.3% of the total population. As a result of this figure, we must make two assumptions:
**Through accident or design, the Gemenon population of the fleet is substantially larger than the other colonies.
**All, or nearly all of the Gemenon population has allied with the Roslin faction. This makes sense, given what Cpl. [[Venner]] has said about Gemenon fundamentalism, and Roslin's use of the "religion card".
*Of the remaining 8,500 souls belonging to the Roslin faction, 6,250 are from Caprica. If we assume that the non-Gemenon population of the Roslin faction represents an even cross-section of the fleet's population, Caprica represents 74% of the remaining 11 colonies.
**Assuming all the Gemenon population left with the Roslin faction, and the Caprican portion of the Roslin faction is a representative sample, the fleet's demographics break down as follows:
***60% from Caprica
***19.9% from Gemenon
***20.1% from elsewhere
***This is not completely implausible, since both ''[[Galactica]]'' and ''[[Colonial One]]'' were likely serving the needs of the closest colony, Caprica, when the [[Cylon Attack]] occurred. Also the Commander of the [[Botanical Cruiser]] destroyed in the [[Miniseries]] mentioned that most of his passengers were from [[Picon]] and Gemenon. As the ship was enroute to Caprica this could indicate that the point where Roslin collected the civillian vessels was near the route Caprica - Gemenon, explaining the large size of the Gemenon population. On the other hand, it would make the [[Quorum of Twelve]] a rather poor representational system.
***Alternatively, there may be some factor which earned the allegiance of the a greater-than-average portion of the Caprica population. Roslin is presumably a native of Caprica herself.
*A frequent question about "[[Resistance]]" was why didn't Baltar ask Galactica-Boomer the names of the 8 Cylons left in the fleet, and it was suspected of being a plot hole. Now here, Baltar himself is shown regretting not asking her the identiy of the other 8 Cylons. Perhaps he only had enough time to ask her one question and still save Chief Tyrol's life, and he was planning on asking her more if "that idiot hadn't killed her".
*Birch is flying a Viper Mark VII in this episode, which was Apollo's preference prior to the damage he sustained during an atmospheric [[SAR]] in "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]". He, and his entire squadron, used Mark II Vipers in the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] (21 days later), although at least six Mark VIIs were deployed in "[[Scattered]]" (36 days later). Perhaps it just took the better part of three weeks to rehabilitate the Mark VIIs.
*Another hard to explain name appears in this episode. The name of the ship ''[[Adriatic]]'', obviously derived from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriatic_Sea Adriatic Sea], is an arm of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea Mediterranean Sea] that separates Italy from the Balkan peninsula on [[Earth]].

== Notes ==
*This episode apparently begins immediately after the events of [[The Farm]].
*Population count is 47,858, a gain of one since [[The Farm]], probably to account for the return of Helo. This means that Starbuck was never written off as "presumed dead", and if Sharon was ever included in the count before her outing as a Cylon, her copy isn't being added back after her defection.
**With the death of Elosha and an unnamed escort on Kobol, the count at the episode end is now 47,856.
*The 24 ships which joined the [[Laura Roslin faction]], while comprising somewhat less than a third of the fleet ([[The Farm]]), carried 18,000 survivors - over a third of the fleet's population.
**Of these, 9,500 (more than half) were from Gemenon, and 6,250 were from Caprica.
*Of the 24 ships, Saul Tigh gives a breakdown as follows:
**12 transports
**7 freighters
**3 construction platforms
**1 private cruiser
**1 mining ship - the [[Monarch]].
*One of the Roslin faction vessels, the [[Adriatic]], is equipped with ship-to-ship missiles.
*The [[Striker]] is a ship that remains with the [[Galactica]], damaged in a collision with an unnamed tanker.
*[[Mueller (pilot)|Mueller]], one of Galactica's Viper pilots, completed a tour as a squadron XO, but Commander Adama views him as a malcontent.
*Lee Adama had blonde hair as a child, like his [[Caroline Adama|mother]].
*Baltar does not know the identities of the Cylons hidden in the fleet, and regrets not asking Sharon before Cally shot her.
*Roslin misidentifies Helo as a Raptor pilot. In the miniseries, he was Galactica-Boomer's [[ECO]].
*According to Caprica Boomer, she is not in constant, involuntary contact with whatever network the Cylons have access to. She claims: "I'm not wired in. It doesn't work like that."
*This is the first of a two-part episode. This episode is officially titled "Home, Part I."
*Apollo and Starbuck finally kiss in this episode, albeit briefly.
*When Commander Adama is crushing walnuts in his hand, it is reminiscent of the nervous habit of Captain Queeg in the classic film [http://www.filmsite.org/cain.html ''The '''Caine''' Mutiny'']. Captain Queeg would roll a pair of ball bearings in one hand during times of stress. Commander Adama's comments about loyalty and a ship being "like a family" also echo Captain Queeg.
*The Cylons have continued to operate troops on the surface of Kobol, but without orbital support from a basestar, or sufficient numbers to be more than a nuisance to the Colonials.
*Roslin's fleet may have held onto the Heavy Raider that Starbuck, Helo, and Sharon returned in. If they did that makes for possibly the third captured Cylon spacecraft, after Starbuck's captured Raider in "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]" and the Heavy Raider that crashed into ''Galactica's'' starboard pod in "[[Scattered]]."
*This is the first of two (thus far) episodes without an appearance by Chief Galen Tyrol, the second being [[Black Market]].
*The "R&D TV Animation" skit consists of David Eick telling Ron Moore to "jot this down" and Moore stabbing the word "THIS" into Eick's forehead with a pen.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
:Baltar: There was an off-road bridge, over the Euclid river. I used to go there, when I was a boy. Watch the fish try and swim upstream. They were mesmerizing. I envied them, unaware as they were of the wider complexities, challenges of life.
:Six: You're beginning to see human beings as we see them.
:Baltar: What I am beginning to see are Cylon faces, everywhere I look. Sharon told me there were eight Cylons left in the fleet. Why didn't I ask her who they were? If that idiot hadn't shot her- and why is that when things go wrong, they go wrong so well?
:Six: Gaius. You get yourself far, far too worked up about these things. They do have it easy, don't they?
:Baltar: They? Why are you talking to me like I'm not one of them?
:Six: In some ways you never were. You have a path. You will be spared their fate. For once, Gaius, you can stop manipulating the world and let destiny take its course. If there's one thing we know about human beings with certainty, they are masters of self destruction.

:'''Lee Adama (to Starbuck):''' You've missed a few catastrophes while you were away.

== Official Statements ==

* ''[[Katee Sackhoff]] on her inability to forge long-term relationships:''

: Starbuck is comfortable with pain. Everything good has been taken away from her. She blames herself. So whenever something good happens, she doesn't believe it will last, so she sabotages it. She's very vulnerable toward love. She wants it so badly, but believes she isn't worthy of it. "How could anyone love me? Me? [[Kara Thrace]]? The complete [[frak]]-up." You can't truly love someone until you love yourself. {{ref|inside_bsg_p50}}

== Guest stars ==
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar] as [[Meier]]
*[[Lorena Gale]] as [[Elosha]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Patricia+Idlette Particia Idlette] as [[Sarah Porter]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0829121 Malcolm Stewart (I)] as [[Marshall Bagot]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kate" Katraine]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1534707/ Ben Ayres] as Lt. [[George Birch|George "Catman" Birch]]
*Linnea Sharples as Lt. [[Emmitt Jones|Emmitt "Sweetness" Jones]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Christina+Schild Christina Schild] as [[Playa Palacios]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Biski+Gugushe Biski Gugushe] as [[Sekou Hamilton]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Raahul+Singh Raahul Singh] as Kimmit

== References ==

* {{note|inside_bsg_p50}} "Inside Battlestar Galactica", Sci-Fi Magazine February 2006: [http://bsgmedia.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10017/0008a1hf.jpg 50]

{{Template:Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]

Valley of Darkness

2006-04-23T21:19:46Z

Nevfennas: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data|
Image =[[Image:Valley_of_Darkness-Starbuck_Helo.jpg|300px]]
| Title=Valley of Darkness
| Series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| Season=[[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode=2
| Guests=
| Writer=[[Bradley Thompson]] & [[David Weddle]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=2.02
| Rating= 2.0
| US Airdate=July 22 2005
| UK Airdate=January 17 2006
| DVD=Dec 20 2005 (US Season 2.0)
| Population=47,874
| Prev=[[Scattered]]
| Next=[[Fragged]]
}}
== Overview ==

: ''After rediscovering [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]], [[Cylon Centurion]]s board ''[[Galactica]]'' and wreak havoc, and [[Lee Adama]] and a rag-tag group of pilots and marines attempt to thwart the Cylon's methodical plans.''

== Summary ==

===On Galactica===

* After jumping successfully to the Fleet's location, the ''Galactica'''s power systems shut down.
* After landing on ''Galactica'', [[Lee Adama]], [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]], [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]], and [[Flyboy]] are walking through the corridors with flashlights. Flyboy stumbles into a Cylon Centurion -- the Cylon kills him and the rest attempt to flee.
* As Hot Dog and Kat flee up the stair way, Lee attempts to kill the Cylon. A small group of [[marines]] come from behind the Cylon, using an explosive round that is able to take it out. Unfortunately, it was their last one, they'll have to get more as it is the only round that works against this heavily-armored version of Centurion.
* Lee's group goes to the storage locker on deck 12. They find [[Jammer]] (a member of [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]]'s repair crew) and, unfortunately, only six explosive rounds.
* [[Felix Gaeta]] states that the [[Cylon Virus]] has infected some of the ship's isolated computers when they were networked; he has teams cleaning them out.
* Tigh gets reports that some of the Cylons have been taken out by teams throughout the ship. He suspects that the Cylons are heading towards two sections of the ship -- one of which is [[Aft Damage Control]] -- in order to vent the ship. (After the ship is vented and the crew terminated, Tigh states that the Cylons would turn ''Galactica's'' guns on the Fleet.)
* Lee gets into contact with [[CIC]] via a portable phone. Tigh orders him to go to the aft damage control section to stop the Cylons from overriding the safeguards that prevent the ship from being vented.
* Lee, Jammer, Kat, and two marines station themselves near the aft damage control console. As they ready the defense against the advancing Cylons, [[Laura Roslin]], [[Billy Keikeya]], [[Anastasia Dualla]] and Corporal [[Venner]] hide in a passageway to avoid being discovered. The Cylons run down a hallway towards aft damage control, but are distracted when Billy accidentally fires off a round while running away. This gives Lee enough time to destroy the Cylon attackers.
*Having successfully destroyed the Cylons, Doctor [[Cottle]] is requested to be brought to the ''Galactica''. In the sickbay, Roslin assures Lee Adama that [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] will be fine, and she is taken back to the brig. Tigh tells Lee that he is still shocked that he would side with the President instead of his own father, and that he is unfit to wear a [[Colonial]] uniform. Lee agrees, tells Tigh that he isn't fit to wear the uniform either, and that when Adama wakes up, he will decide what to do with both of them.

===On Caprica===
*[[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] discuss how the Cylons have a habit of fooling everyone.
*Starbuck leads them to her old house, where she reminisces about how she hated it and how she keeps fighting because it's the only thing she knows.
*They later leave driving Starbuck's old army truck.

===On Kobol===
*[[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] has a dream where [[William Adama|Adama]] drowns Baltar's daughter.
*When he wakes up, he is in [[Number Six]]'s arms, surrounded by human skulls and bones. Six tells Baltar that they were victims of human sacrifice, and that the [[Sacred_Scrolls|Scriptures]] were lies, fabricated to cover up how barbaric life on Kobol really was.
*When he returns to the others, Baltar is harangued by [[Crashdown]].
*[[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] is feeling responsible for [[Tarn]]'s death, but [[Cally]] snaps him out of it.
*The two return with the medkits, but it is too late to save [[Socinus]]' life. Telling him that he is going home, Tyrol reluctantly kills him with an overdose of [[morpha]].

== Questions ==
*The remains Baltar and Six find cannot be thousands of years old; they would not have survived in the open. Did the [[Thirteenth Colony]] leave Kobol recently? Do humans, at least until recently, still inhabit Kobol? Or were all the remains merely fabricated by Six?
*Why would later humans have felt it necessary to cover up the nature of civilization on Kobol? Is it related to the reason why Kobol was abandoned in the first place? How would the Cylons have found out? Or did Six just make it up?
*How did Tigh know where the Centurions were heading? Did the Cylons use this tactic in the first war?
** '''Note:''' It is stated in the [[series bible]] that during Tigh's enlistment in the first [[Cylon War]], his ship was boarded -- it is likely that he learned of these tactics during this conflict. (see: [[Saul Tigh]])
**'''Note:''' A deleted scene for this episode shows more flashbacks between Tigh and Adama in which they reminisce about old battles in the Cylon War. One particular recount involved the Cylons boarding a vessel and heading for two specific locations; Auxiliary Fire Control and Aft Damage Control.
*Is Helo starting to fall for Starbuck? ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|Answer]]: Most likely no.)
*While pointing out different parts of the ship where Centurions were destroyed, it's mentioned that Sgt. [[Hadrian]] was leading a group of Marines that managed to destroy several Cylons. However, at the end of "[[Litmus]]" Adama had her confined to quarters. Did Adama eventually release her before this episode? Did the Marines release her now because they needed every experienced Marine they could find?
**"confined to quarters" could mean that she has to spend her off-duty time in her quarters but continues to perform her dutys the same way Lee Adama does. Given the overall shortage of personal and the type and length of punishments Commander Adama hands out for these reasons in past and future episodes it's likely she was released since "Litmus".
*Why does Dee tell Billy they haven't met in person "in two weeks" when they were last seen dancing together on Colonial Day, two days ago at the most? (Kobol's Last Gleaming starts the night after Colonial Day, if Starbuck's wearing the same dress at the beginning)
**Presuming they take place concurrently, the captions for the scenes on Cylon-occupied Caprica indicate that Part I takes place three days after Colonial Day and Part II the day after that. Scattered and this episode almost certainly take place on the same day as Part II, however, so it has still been at most four days since they saw each other.

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==
*The fleet population cited in the opening credits is 47,874. This is one less than the previous episode—prior to the opening credits, a Cylon is seen killing a Galactica crew member.
*First episode without an appearance by [[Sharon Valerii]] (except in opening montage).
*Helo reveals to Starbuck that the Cylons recovered the bodies and brought them to cremation centers, hence the lack of bodies.
*Socinus, initially slated to die in early drafts of "[[Scattered]]", dies in this episode -- euthanised by Tyrol.
*Colonials used internal combustion engines (Starbuck's Humvee). Assuming that it was the Colonists that brought organic life along with them to the Homeworlds (terraforming) (as Kobol's wildlife (birds and trees and such) is identical to Caprica's, this is likely the case), it probably does not burn fossil fuels, though, since the Kobol's refugees arrived on the Colonies only thousands of years rather than the millions of years it takes for fossil fuels to form. However, Kobol's life forms could also simply have replaced or supplemented less evolved or less strong life forms on the colonial planets, as happened several times on Earth where non-ingenious life forms can wreck havoc on a local ecosystem; or the local life forms may have died out through a catastrophic event. Both scenarios leave enough time for original life forms to be turned into fossil fuels.
* [[Kate Vernon]] is listed as a guest star in the opening credits, even though her character, [[Ellen Tigh]], never makes an appearance in this episode.
* The music that we hear in Kara Thrace's apartment and again during the closing act of the episode is ''Metamorphosis One'', composed by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Glass Philip Glass]. It is from Glass's 1989 album ''Solo Piano''.
*The fate of the Heavy Raider in the starboard bay is unknown. It's possible that, like Starbuck's captured Raider, they kept it for study. However, the crash may have damaged it beyond repair.
*The "R&D TV Animation" skit during the credits is a take-off on the plot of "Valley of Darkness", a group of Cylon Centurions walk by the office window and ventilate David Eick with bullets.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

* ''On the surface of Kobol, Chief Tyrol and Cally are on their way to rendezvous with the rest of the Raptor crash survivors:''
:Cally: (exhausted from walking) What do you say we take five?
:(Chief Tyrol is still in a state of shock [having lost Tarn to a surprise attack by the Cylons in the last episode] and leans against a tree)
:Cally: How much further, do you think?
:(Chief Tyrol ignores her)
:Cally: Tarn getting shot...it wasn't your fault, right Chief?
:(Chief Tyrol is silent)
:Cally: Talk to me, you motherfracker!
:(Chief Tyrol turns around and looks at her strangely)
:Chief Tyrol: (laughing) Motherfracker?
:Cally: Socinus better appreciate this.
:Chief Tyrol: He's probably lying in the sun, staring up at the birds like some Gods' damned emperor. He's an idiot.
:Cally: I hope he's okay...

* ''Regarding [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|"Sharon, the Cylon"]]:''
:'''Starbuck:''' (to Helo, sarcastically) "Your girlfriend’s from a lovely family, good people."

* ''In her apartment on Caprica, Starbuck and Helo have stopped to take a rest:''
:Kara Thrace: (sitting on her couch) You know, I never really liked this place anyway. The air conditioning doesn't work in the summer, the heater doesn't work in the winter, the rent's a crime...(lights a cigarette)...after they attacked, I never pined over any of my old crap. Never missed it. Stupid VO's in the parking lot, broken toilet in the bathroom...you know, everyone I know is fighting to get back what they had. I'm fighting because I don't know how to do anything else.

* '''Lee Adama''': "Let’s go [[toaster]] shopping."

* ''Chief Tyrol and Cally have rejoined the others on Kobol, and they find out that Socinus isn't going to survive much longer:''
:Chief Tyrol: How's he doing?
:Selix: He's not going to make it.
:Chief Tyrol: What? What do you mean? What are you talking about? We got the medkit! Give him a shot! Give him another shot!
:Selix: It's too late.
:Chief Tyrol: What do you mean, it's too late? I got you the medkit! What else do you want? (looking stunned) So we...got the medicine you asked for...Tarn...and for what? For this? Come on! You have to do something. You have to do something!
:Selix: We can't change that he's going to die, Chief. It's going to be slow and painful, and we can spare him that if we give him the morpha from my kit and the one that you brought back.
:Chief Tyrol: What? No. (looks at Crashdown) LT..LT, come on!
:Crashdown: He's your man, Chief.
:Chief Tyrol: Give it to me. (takes morpha from Selix and leans down beside Socinus) Hey buddy. It's the Chief. How you doing?
:Socinus: (wheezing) What's going on?
:Chief Tyrol: Oh, you know...listening to the birds. I got you a little something for the pain. (injects morpha into Socinus) Good news, buddy. The recovery party's here. Raptors just landed. We're going to put you on one and take you back to Galactica, okay?
:Socinus: We're going home?
:Chief Tyrol: Yeah...(tears welling in his eyes)...we're going home.
:(Socinus passes away)

* ''In the Galactica's sickbay:''
:Colonel Tigh: I can't believe you sided with that woman against the old man. I wouldn't do that if you put a gun to my head...and you did! As far as I'm concerned, you're not fit to wear a uniform.
:Lee Adama: Huh. You're right about that part. I am not fit to wear the uniform...and maybe I never was. Then again, neither are you. But this isn't my ship, and it sure as hell isn't yours. (motions at Commander Adama) It's his, and when he wakes up, he'll decide what to do with the both of us. (Lee leaves to go back to the brig)
:Colonel Tigh: Thank the Gods I didn't have kids.

* ''In aft damage control, preparing to fight the Cylons:''
:'''Lee Adama''': Sometimes you got to roll a hard six.
:'''[[Jammer]]''': What does that mean, sir?
:'''Lee Adama''': Uh, I don't know. It's something my [[William Adama|dad]] says.

== Official Statements ==




* "We've almost completed shooting the opening of Season Two, with [[Michael Rymer]] back at the helm filming a two-parter written by [[David Weddle]] & [[Bradley Thompson]] called '[[Scattered]]' and '[[Valley of Darkness]].' Things have been going well so far, with a good mood on the set and a feeling of satisfaction and pride running through the whole team at their accomplishments in year one and anticipation for year two." -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* ''"[[Lee Adama|Apollo]]'s betrayal of [[William Adama|Adama]]'s decision to arrest the [[Laura Roslin|president]] is detracting from the believability of the show for me. I'm listining to your [[podcast]] of [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|ep. 113]] as I write this and you just said Lee is "a more capable, more competent, leader . . ." He's also struck me as a fairly honorable character. If he had doubts about this mission I think he would have at least voiced them and then not gone along with the strike team so he would not have been put in the position he was. I hope you won't use Adama's near death experience at the end of season one/start of season two to "write off" these betrayals, esp. Apollo's. His was much more unforgivable considering his relationship with Adama, his leadership role in the fleet, and the battle between the president and Adama. I find it hard to see Lee continuing as [[CAG]] after this. "''

: You bring up valid points and we are planning to play out the consequences of Lee's decision as it impacts both him and his father over the course of the season. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

== Guest stars ==
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as Specialist [[Cally]]
*Jennifer Halley as [[Seelix]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmonson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmonson]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
*[[Ty Olsson]] as Captain [[Aaron Kelly]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0654640/ Alonso Oyarzun] as Specialist [[Socinus]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[[Dominic Zamprogna]] as [[Jammer]]
*Garvin Cross as [[Collishaw]]
*Brad Loree as [[Bonnington]]
*Lori Stewart as [[Twinam]]

== Statistics ==



* USA [[Wikipedia:Nielsen Ratings|Nielsen Ratings]]: 2.0 household rating

{{Episode List}}

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)]] [[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

Resurrection Ship, Part II

2006-04-23T19:37:20Z

Nevfennas: /* Questions */ answer

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Gina-Cain.jpg|300px]]
| Title= Resurrection Ship, Part II
| Series= [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|The Re-imagined Series]]
| Season= [[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode= 12
| Guests=[[Michelle Forbes]] as Admiral [[Helena Cain|Cain]]
| Writer=[[Michael Rymer]] & [[Ronald D. Moore]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=2.12
| Rating= 1.9
| US Airdate=January 13 2006
| UK Airdate=March 21 2006
| DVD=
| Population=49,604
| Prev= [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
| Next= [[Epiphanies]]
}}
== Overview ==
:''The battlestars ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' engage in [[Attack on the Resurrection Ship|an all-out battle]] to destroy the Cylon “Resurrection” ship.''

== Summary ==

*The episode begins, like "[[Act of Contrition]]", well into the events of the story, as [[Lee Adama]] floats in a planetary body of water. He sees something approaching him—it is a Cylon [[Raider]] with a [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] in hot pursuit, and we return to reality to see Apollo floating in space in his ejection seat, followed by the title card, "48 Hours Earlier".
*[[Kara Thrace]] asks [[Lee Adama]] for backup on her mission to assassinate Admiral Cain. Lee accepts, and reassures Thrace of the importance of trust as he embraces her.
*[[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] are bound and beaten in the brig by upset ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' officers, aided again by their [[Colonial Marine Corps|marines]], until Executive officer [[Jack Fisk]] arrives to break it up.
*[[Helena Cain]] and [[Kara Thrace]] have a drink together, and Cain asks Thrace to promise not to flinch when she has to commit a "terrible sin"
*Lieutenant Adama makes a courier run to ''Galactica'', taking the opportunity to ask his father about Thrace's special mission. Adama is uninterested in discussing the issue, but young Adama is surprised to know that President Roslin is involved in the assassination plot.
*Thrace and [[Jack Fisk]] both prepare for their assassination missions, as well as the attack on the Resurrection Ship.
* Before Adama aborts his assassination plan on Cain, he solicits advice from the cooperative copy of [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], asking her why the Cylons hate humanity as they do. She reminds him of a portion of his decommissioning speech ([[Miniseries]]), asking whether humanity has asked ''itself'' if it is deserving to survive despite its failings.
*The [[Resurrection Ship]] and at least one [[Basestar_(RDM)|basestar]] are destroyed by the Colonials. [[Image:Ep212battle.jpg|thumb|right|200px|Cylon basestar under assault]]
*During the battle, the [[Blackbird]] is successful in disabling the Resurrection Ship. While escaping, the Blackbird is heavily damaged when it crashes into a disabled Raptor. Adama is able to eject in time as the Blackbird is destroyed.
*Floating in space, Apollo's flight suit springs a leak. Communications officer [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] tries frantically to contact him, but Apollo does not respond by choice. Later he releases the last of the air in his [[flight suit]] and says, "I'm sorry, Kara", losing consciousness just as a SAR Raptor appears in the nick of time to save him.
*[[Gaius Baltar]]'s feelings for [[Number Six]] transfer to the copy named [[Gina]], who is tangible and more ''human'' than his internal Number Six. He repeats to Gina a story told to him by Six about going to watch Pyramid games, finally taking her hands in his as Baltar's internal Six disappears in sadness. As Gina senses the destruction of the Resurrection Ship, she takes a sidearm from a marine she kills, with Baltar's help, and asks Baltar to kill her, noting that suicide is a sin. Baltar refuses, gives her the sidearm, and tells her she needs justice, ostensibly referring to Admiral Cain.
*[[William Adama]] and [[Helena Cain]] both speak over [[wireless]] to conspirators [[Jack Fisk]] and [[Kara Thrace]], respectively, but neither commander gives the order to assassinate the other.
*After the battle, [[Helena Cain|Admiral Cain]] is shot in the head and killed by [[Gina]] in Cain's quarters. Cain is challenging to the last, unregretful of the treatment that Gina has been given.
*At Cain's funeral, Kara Thrace speaks admiringly of her, saying the Fleet would have been safer with her than it is without her. This statement raises a stare from Commander Adama.
*As Lee Adama confides to Thrace that he didn't want to survive the mission, [[Anastasia Dualla]] stands outside Adama's quarters eavesdropping, visibly worried about young Adama.
*Battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' and her crew remain in the Fleet, with [[William Adama]] becoming an admiral to command both battlestars. After receiving new admiral insignia from [[Laura Roslin]], he gives her a brief but affectionate kiss, to the smiles of both.
*Laura Roslin is now visibly weakened by her fight with cancer, and her composure and strength are failing. Her end appears near.

== Questions ==
* Adama had the first opportunity to implement his "plan" on Admiral Cain. Why didn't he? Did [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]'s earlier comments about humanity not deserving to survive have something to do with that?
::Adama's remarks to Starbuck, that it is not enough to survive, but be worthy of survival, seem to point to this.
:::Did [[Helena_Cain|Admiral Cain's]] actions (such as the cannibalism of [[Pegasus_(RDM)|Pegasus']] civilian fleet) necessarily justify her worthiness? Did [[William_Adama|Adama]] realize that he didn't have the right to make that judgement?
::::Adama may have come to the conclusion that by murdering Caine he would become just like Caine and therefor not worthy of survival himself. If survival requires to become like Caine that may be a price to high to pay for him.
* Why did Cain not issue the order for Adama's execution? Was it a change of heart? Or did she suspect that her life was in jeopardy by Thrace?
* Subsequent to [[Gina]] killing of Cain, Gina disappears from ''Pegasus'' and Colonial military imprisonment (as promised by Baltar). Where is she being hidden? ([[Epiphanies|Answer]])
* [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] hands Gina a weapon in the ante-room of the ''Pegasus'' brig. Would a high-security area be equipped with surveillance cameras? Has Baltar disappeared as well?
*We only saw one basestar destroyed—was the other destroyed, or was it able to jump away with the surviving Raiders and support ships?
* Is Lee Adama becoming depressed and unable to command his pilots?
* How will ''Pegasus'' resources be used throughout the Fleet?
* How many new Viper squadrons and pilots have been added to the Fleet?
* How will Adama deal with the mob-level brutality that appears throughout ''Pegasus''?
* How closely have the Cylons studied the memories of the 'first' Boomer aboard ''Galactica'', and the other spies in the Fleet?
* How will Kara Thrace's comments at Cain's funeral affect her relationship with now-Admiral Adama?
* In "[[Resistance]]", Baltar forces ''Galactica'''s first Sharon into revealing that eight Cylons are still in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]. However, this obviously does not take into account the introduction of ''Pegasus''. Thus, are there any more Cylon agents are aboard ''Pegasus''? If so, what do they number?
:Will these agents be far more careful in what they do, knowing that resurrection is no longer possible?
* Will another [[Blackbird]] be constructed?
* Will Adama stay aboard ''[[Galactica_(RDM)|Galactica]]'' now that he's been promoted?
:It is very likely that Adama keeps ''Galactica'' as his command and flagship. Adama trusts the abilities and strengths of his battlestar and also knows the weaknesses of ''Pegasus''.
* Are there going to be any other promotions?
* Who will be [[CAG]] of ''Galactica''? [[Kara_Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Lee_Adama|Apollo]] were assigned to [[Pegasus_(RDM)|Pegasus]] at the time Admiral Cain was assassinated.
:If [[Lee_Adama|Apollo]] recovers from his depression, he will probably resume his position as the CAG of ''Galactica'', while [[Kara_Thrace|Starbuck]] will continue as the CAG of ''Pegasus'' since she has obviously proven her worth and was chosen for the position by [[Helena_Cain|Admiral Cain]].
* What changes in the Cylon strategy will we see, now that the [[Resurrection Ship]] has been destroyed?
* What punishment, if any, will [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] receive now that they have escaped the death sentence imposed by [[Helena_Cain|Admiral Cain]]? After all, they did murder a superior officer, even though it was an accident.
:Colonel Tigh's actions from the ''[[Gideon]]'' incident are more dire and politically damaging, yet Adama does not punish his second-in-command. It is likely that, especially given the inhumane treatment of Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne|Thorne]] towards the cooperative and unaggressive pregnant [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] (which Adama apologizes for to Valerii), that Adama will dismiss the matter.

== Analysis ==
*The beating of Helo and the Chief was edited so that in the teaser, all we see is the "Sunshine Boys" entering the cell with their marines, about to tie the two up while making threatening comments. Given that they were involved in the gang rape of Gina, many viewers left the teaser fearing that far worse was going to happen to Agathon and Tyrol than simply being beaten with soap wrapped in towels.
* The basestar/battlestar battle was epic, although viewers did not see a great deal of it from a play-by-play standpoint. The pairing of an advanced battlestar such as ''Pegasus'' with the oldest battlestar, ''Galactica'', likely illustrates why the Cylons used [[CNP|sabotage]] instead of all-out war to [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|defeat the Twelve Colonies]]. With proper planning, battlestars working in tandem will shred a basestar in a close-range attack, which uses missiles and fighters, but appears to have no gun batteries itself.
*Lee Adama's collision with the downed [[Raptor]] occurred partly because Adama was looking behind him, examining the damage he dealt to the Resurrection Ship. This may be symbolic of one of young Adama's character flaws: he is always looking backward, always examining what he's done instead of keeping his attention on the here and now. See "[[Water]]", where Lee agonizes over firing on the ''[[Olympic Carrier]]'' while his father warns him specifically about not second-guessing himself. This theme also parallels Cain's words—-which Starbuck echoes at her funeral—-about not flinching or second-guessing when terrible things have to be done.
* Obviously, the writers felt that the battle was less important than the events planned immediately after--the mutual attempts by Cain and Adama to kill each other. Viewers enter the battle scene at the stage where the battlestars tackle the destruction of the basestars, although there was a ruse earlier involving the entire [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]]. This quick segue was also likely done in light of the cost for the visual effects, since the shots of the battlestar attacks would be greatly desired by the fans, but also be new VFX and therefore expensive.
* The pregnant Sharon Valerii again shows that she has the memories of the 'original' Boomer, which was previously shown in the season opener when she started to tell Starbuck of the time they met.
* A new love triangle is formed as Gaius Baltar seems more fixated on the ''notion'' of Gina and her pain rather than the feelings of his virtual Number Six, who unsuccessfully pleads him not to aid Gina in killing herself. As he takes Gina's hand, the virtual Six disappears from view in the scene. Perhaps Baltar needed to touch a "real" Six copy, and is also swayed by her "humanity"--her vulnerability and weakness, as well as her differing interpretation on how she thinks [[God]] will forgive the Colonials for the destruction of the Cylon fleet.
* In another example of Gaius' ability to multi-task, he relates to Gina as his own the anecdote that Six told him (about purchasing two tickets when she went to see Pyramid games, as the extra ticket permitted her to imagine Gaius watched the game with her). The anecdote serves two conversations at once. The anecdote reinforces his bond with Gina and indicates to Six that flesh-and-blood Gina is of far greater importance to him than (presumably non-corporeal) Six, or the tens of thousands of Cylons who are about to die, permanently, with the destruction of the resurrection ship. Baltar's relationship with Six in the future will likely be a strained one.
*Admiral Adama's affectionate kiss with [[Laura Roslin]] opens up all kinds of new story possibilities and complications for the characters and the Fleet. It might have been considered by some viewers to be the most surprising part of the whole episode since no information on this scene was noted in advance of the show's airing. As noted by RDM in the podcast commentary, the kiss was improvised by Olmos. His and McDonnell's acting continues to be exemplary.

== Notes ==

*Vireem and Gage's beating of Tyrol and Helo with bars of soap stuffed inside socks used as slings is an obvious homage to the Stanley Kubrick film "[[Wikipedia:Full_Metal_Jacket|Full Metal Jacket]]", in which the exact same thing happens to "Pvt. Pyle" in the Marine barracks at night (RDM points this out himself, in the podcast).
*Apollo was demoted to Lieutenant by Cain when she revoked his flight status. At the beginning of Part I, he is referred to as "Captain", but after Cain mentions that she revoked his flight status, Adama addresses his son as "Lieutenant". The official Scifi.com website was updated the week after this episode aired showing the new ranks of characters--Captain Kara Thrace, Admiral William Adama--but it also was changed to list Lee Adama as a Lieutenant.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*'''Jack Fisk''': I don't want your thanks. I owe Lieutenant Thorne my life, as do many people on this ship.
:'''Helo''': He was trying to rape a prisoner!
:'''Fisk''': You can't "rape" a machine, Lieutenant.

*'''Sharon Valerii''': It's what you said at the ceremony before the attack, when ''Galactica'' was being decommissioned. You gave a speech, it sounded like it wasn't the one you prepared. You said that humanity was a flawed creation, and that people still kill one another for petty jealousy and greed. You said that humanity never asked itself why it deserved to survive. Maybe you don't.

*'''Adama''' ''(to Starbuck over wireless)'': I've been thinking about what we talked about before. It's not enough to survive. One has to be worthy of surviving. That's all.

*'''Gina''': Suicide is a sin. But I need to die!
:'''Baltar''': What you need is justice. I know a place where you can stay, where you can be safe, where I can look after you.
:'''Gina''': Why would you do that?
:'''Baltar''': Because I love you.

*'''Gina''' ''(confronting Cain in her quarters with her gun)'': Tell me, Admiral. Can you roll over? Beg?
:'''Helena Cain''': Frak you.
:'''Gina''' ''(right before shooting)'': You're not my type.

*'''Kara Thrace''' ''(giving an eulogy at Cain's funeral)'': I, um, only knew Admiral Cain for a short time, so what I have to say about her will be short. She faced things. She looked them right in the eye and she didn't flinch. That's something that we do a lot around here. We second-guess. We worry. When I think about what she went through after the attack -- all alone, one ship, no help, no hope -- she didn't give up. She didn't worry. She didn't second-guess. She acted. She did what she thought needed to be done, and the Pegasus survived. Might be hard to admit, or hard to hear, but I think that we were safer with her...than we are without.

*'''Kara Thrace''': Lee. Lee, you okay? Are you okay?
:'''Lee Adama''': No, not really. Um...I broke my word to you.
:'''Thrace''': What are you talking about?
:'''Adama''': I let you down. I wasn't there when you needed me.
:'''Thrace''': Look, a close call like that? That'd mess with anybody's head. Alright? You know, it turns out I didn't need you anyway, so…. Let's just be glad that we both came back alive, alright?
:'''Adama''': That's just it, Kara. I didn't want to make it back alive.

*'''Laura Roslin''': Rumor has it that I know very little about military protocol, but I do know that someone who commands more than one ship is called an admiral. Congratulations, Admiral Adama.
:'''William Adama''': Thank you, Madame President. Thank you, Billy. I um, never gave up hope, I just stopped trying to get these a long time ago.
:'''Roslin''': Just goes to show you, Bill. Never give up hope.
:'''Adama''': Same goes for you, Laura.

== Official Statements ==

== Guest stars ==
*[[Michelle Forbes]] as Admiral [[Helena Cain]]
*Graham Beckel as Colonel [[Jack Fisk]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*Derek Delost as Specialist [[Vireem]]
*Mike Dopud Specialist [[Gage]]

== Statistics ==
* USA [[Wikipedia:Nielsen Ratings|Nielsen Ratings]]: 1.9 household rating

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

Resurrection Ship, Part I

2006-04-23T19:24:52Z

Nevfennas: /* Analysis */

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Resurrection_Ship_pt2-Planning.jpg|300px]]
| Title=Resurrection Ship, Part I
| Series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| Season=2
| Episode=11
| Guests=[[Michelle Forbes]] as Admiral [[Helena Cain|Cain]]
| Writer=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Story=[[Anne Cofell Saunders]]
| Director=[[Michael Rymer]]
| Production=2.11 '''(Season 2.5 Premiere)'''
| Rating= 2.1
| US Airdate=January 6, 2006
| UK Airdate=March 21 2006
| DVD=
| Population=49,604
| Prev=[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
| Next=[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A military power struggle threatens to escalate into all-out war as the battlestars ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' attempt to join forces to destroy a critical Cylon target: a “Resurrection” ship.''

== Summary ==
*[[Kara Thrace]] flies in behind the Cylon fleet following ''Galactica.'' The stealth features of the [[Blackbird]] allow her to fly to and within the superstructure of the [[Unknown Cylon Ship]], taking pictures along the way. Just before leaving the superstructure, she [[FTL|Jumps]] away to safety and [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]].
*Thrace returns from her unsanctioned reconnaissance of the Cylon fleet in the middle of Adama and Cain's standoff, with recon images of the [[Unknown Cylon Ship]]. Her return appears on [[DRADIS]] as a [[Raider]] and causes Viper squadrons from both ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' and ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' to stop a deadly game of "chicken", with neither side firing unless fired upon.
*Thrace uploads her incredibly detailed pictures of the Unknown Cylon Ship. A closeup shows Cylon bodies, including several inactive copies of [[Number Six|the blonde Cylon agent]] known to the Colonials as "[[Shelly Godfrey]]" and "[[Gina]]".
*After being grilled for their near-disastrous action on ''[[Colonial One]]'' by President [[Laura Roslin]], Adama and Cain agree to a truce while they prepare a joint attack on the Cylon fleet.
*Roslin warns Adama that Cain is a loose cannon, who must be killed in order to save the Fleet from annihilation. Adama is surprised at Roslin's candor, and is reluctant to consider the idea.
*Adama learns that ''Pegasus'' was also shepherding a civilian fleet, which it abandoned months ago, but not before stripping it of anything useful, including FTL drives, spare parts, and people. Cain ordered the execution of the families of individuals she selected who would not leave with ''Pegasus.''
*[[Gaius Baltar]] speaks more with [[Gina]], who wants Baltar to kill her so she can free herself from her torturous existence. He tells her that she cannot die as her consciousness would only download into another [[Cylon agent|Cylon body]]. Seeing the copies of reconnaissance photos Baltar is carrying, Gina says she would die if his Fleet destroys the Unknown ship.
*Baltar briefs Adama and Cain: The ship is known as the Resurrection Ship. Its function is to allow Cylon agents a place where their consciousness can download, as an agent in the Fleet would be too far from the Cylon homeworld for their consciousness to return. Cain quickly surmises that, without the Resurrection Ship, the few agents remaining would be permanently gone, perhaps more reluctant to complete their respective missions.
*Laura Roslin's illness is now more visibly apparent. William Adama visits her, and the two have a most unusual, even sentimental talk, with humor about getting a fresh, young Cylon body replacement for Roslin. Adama smiles and says that he couldn't think of her as a blonde, but Roslin smiles and says he'd be surprised.
*Cain finds Thrace's initiative laudable, and promotes her to Captain and [[CAG]] ''Pegasus'' over [[Cole Taylor]]. She initially pulls [[Lee Adama]]'s flight status, but restores it at Thrace's behest and assigns him to her team. Thrace begins plans on an attack on the Resurrection Ship.
*[[Karl Agathon|Helo]] and [[Galen Tyrol]] are pleasantly surprised not to be dead. Lee Adama visits the two and catches them up on events, noting that his father pulled out the stops to ensure Helo's and Tyrol's survival.
*[[Kara_Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Lee_Adama|Apollo]] brief the battlestar commanders and XO's regarding the plan to disable and destroy the [[Resurrection Ship]]. The plan will involve both battlestars and all available fighters. Both [[Helena_Cain|Admiral Cain]] and [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] approve of the plan, Adama being the more hesitant of the two.
*Colonel Tigh asks if the [[Blackbird]] could be used to sneak up behind the Resurrection Ship with a nuclear missile to destroy the Resurrection Ship outright. Thrace indicates that computer simulations show that the Cylons would pick up the [[Radiological Alarm|radiological signature]] of the bomb (which cannot be hidden by the Blackbird's stealth ability). Such detection would destroy their element of surprise and likely warn the Resurrection Ship to Jump away.
*After the briefing, Adama consults with Thrace privately, asking her to shoot Cain in the head after the attack. Likewise, Cain transfers [[Jack Fisk]] and a squad of Marines loyal to her to ''Galactica'' and instructs Fisk to kill Adama ''and'' his command staff after the attack.

== Questions ==
* Why doesn't Cain and her crew grasp the concept that survival of the human race supersedes the military way of life?
** Adama had similar ideas in the [[Miniseries]] until Roslin talked him out of it.
*What was the fate of the other civilians aboard ''Pegasus'''s civilian fleet, the ones who weren't brought aboard the'' Pegasus'' as useful assets or executed after the civilian ships were stripped?
* If Dr. [[Cottle]] were to perform a psychological examination on Cain, could Adama strip her of command for medical reasons?
**Adama could have just had Roslin strip her of her rank because she's Commander-in-Chief; it doesn't matter: Cain's hold over Pegasus is so tight it would be fluffed off. Also, Cain is not clinically insane. It's not just "insane" humans who do evil things in wartime. Cain does bad things, and she doesn't have the excuse of not being in command of her mental faculties.
* Has Roslin's illness has brought her to terminally important attitudes on life and death? Unlike the option to kill the prisoners on the ''[[Astral Queen]]'' ([[Miniseries]]), Roslin does not hesitate to suggest to Adama to kill Cain.
**These two issues are not morally equivalent. The prisoners on ''Astral Queen'' were not posing an immediate threat to the safety of the Fleet, as Cain and ''Pegasus'' were.
*Why does Commander Adama rely on gossip from Cally and Tigh, rather than debriefing [[Peter Laird|Laird]] personally?
**Maybe Laird was so scared/broken in by Cain that he would be unwilling to say anything against Cain out of fear; thus Tigh had to ask Fisk.
**Were Laird's wife and possibly children executed on the ''[[Scylla]]'' because he was one of the two who resisted the ''Pegasus'' marine team?
*When did the Resurrection Ship begin following the Fleet? Was it able to rescue [[Aaron Doral#Suicide Bomber Copy|Aaron Doral (Suicide Bomber Copy)]] (killed day 17), [[Shelly Godfrey]] (disappeared day 24), [[Leoben Conoy#Gemenon Traveler Copy|Leoben Conoy (Gemenon Traveler Copy)]] (killed day 25), or [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)]] (killed c. day 54)?
**An answer to the Valerii consciousness viewers knew as "Boomer" may be answered in the episode, "[[Downloaded]]."
* [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] got some pretty close shots of the [[Resurrection Ship]], so much so that [[Helena_Cain|Admiral Cain]] was able to ID the [[Cylon agent]] she knew as [[Gina]]. Could any of the other [[Cylon agent]] models be identified, including the ones that the Fleet aren't aware of yet?
**Although logically possible, from a story writing standpoint they were probably not lucky enough for that.
*Since Lee Adama was ultimately to be included in the mission to assassinate Cain anyway, why didn't his father deign to brief him at the same time as Kara Thrace? Having Thrace fill him in later doubles the chance of their plans being overheard.
**Since Starbuck is the ''Pegasus'' CAG, Adama has an excuse to ask her to stay. If he'd asked for her ''and'' Lee, it likely would have raised suspicions.
*Baltar said that he's tired of the fantasy-world in his head that he retreats into; not of Number Six herself, but of his bachelor pad on Caprica. Is this a further sign that Baltar is shifting closer into the Cylon camp? It could mean that he no longer misses his old life on Caprica and has stopped clinging to it.
*To what extent is the chain of command still in effect? Adama fully intends to have Cain killed, but still stops short of demanding Agathon and Tyrol's return, and Cain believes he will still accept Fisk's transfer to ''Galactica'' as a spy.
*Will Fisk carry out his order to have ''Pegasus'' marines execute ''Galactica's'' entire command staff? He seems to have found a friend in Col. Tigh, someone who he is more than willing to share otherwise privileged information with. He does seem to be Cain's voice of reason.
*Is Admiral Cain telling the truth when she says to Starbuck that their "ultimate goal" is to return to the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] and liberate them from the Cylons?
**On the one hand, she may be playing on Starbuck's desire to rescue the [[Resistance (movement)|Caprican Resistance]] led by [[Samuel Anders]] in order to lure Starbuck over to her allegiance (Cain was impressed by Starbuck's brazen recon mision, and now views her as a valuable asset).
**On the other hand, this is consistent with Admiral Cain's behavior so far: while ''Galactica's'' crew realizes they had no hope of taking back the Colonies and left to try to find Earth, ''Pegasus'' has actually been engaging Cylon forces on the outskirts of the occupied Twelve Colonies for months. Cain does truly seem to want to "take the fight to the Cylons", as it were, and fight to reclaim the Twelve Colonies.
***Even if she is being honest about that, her comment to Starbuck that Anders' resistance "deserves to be saved" seems almost definitely just to be Cain manipulating Starbuck: As evidenced by Cain's treatment of her own [[Scylla|small civilian fleet]], she has completely prioritized the military assets of ''Pegasus'' over the well-being of any other small group of people.
***Even if Admiral Cain were able to lead the Fleet in successfully forcing the Cylons out of the Twelve Colonies, doesn't she realize that they've ''already'' been nuked and are currently inhospitably irradiated? The few people left on the Colonies need anti-radiation medication to survive there, there's only a finite supply of these and it's doubtful that they have any production facilities they could use.

== Analysis ==
This episode fails to skip a beat from the mid-season closer. With ''Galactica's'' and ''Pegasus''' Vipers in a scary game of chicken, the level of tension borders on the "fish in a blender" scenario.

Admiral Cain is clearly showing signs of stress indicative of some kind of sociopathic disorder; her orders and desire to follow the military way overshadow any compassion or understanding of the reality of her situation. She fails to understand that killing Helo and Tyrol worsens the Fleet, as she cannot simply find a suitable replacement.

The star of this show, albeit briefly appearing, is Mary McDonnell's Roslin. Like her namesake Blackbird itself, Roslin shows her toughness in staring down Cain ''and'' Adama, who actually looks ''ashamed'' in his actions while Roslin reads both "the riot act." Were not for the situation, Roslin's second talk with Adama, maybe the first time that Roslin does not appear with Adama in regular clothing, very casual, and obviously ill, seemed more like two old friends. Adama does something viewers have rarely seen with Roslin--his face relaxes and shows humor, sympathy, perhaps even sadness at Roslin's illness and her strength in looking her illness in the face and denying it anyway. He offers his hand and she accepts with a squeeze before she leaves. It seems in this moment that Roslin and Adama exchanged more romantic chemistry than the writer's attempts to do the same with Adama's son and Kara Thrace.

Baltar was generally neutral in this episode, playing both sides, Adama and Cain, Colonial and Cylon, to the advantage of all. His motives in saving Gina are still in doubt, and viewers are likely to see more development here.

Viewers are likely more interested not in the upcoming battle, now a more evenly matched fight between Colonial and Cylon (all things considered--[[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] generate Raiders like rabbits generate offspring), but in the battle for control of the Fleet, with both Adama and Cain performing similar strategies to kill the other.

*Cain wonders if debating morality is what Roslin and Adama have been doing "for the past six months"; however, as explained in the article [[Timeline (RDM)]], this episode only takes place a little over ''three'' months after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. Specifically, the beginning of "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]" took place 30 days after "[[Resistance]]", when the crashed Raptor team returned from Kobol, which took place less than a week after "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", which explicitly stated to take place 51 days after [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] was stranded on Caprica in the [[Miniseries]]. In "Flight of the Phoenix", Roslin was told that her cancer had advanced aggressively, and she had a month to live "at the outside". The idea that the episode "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]" (the previous episode) took place ''three months'' after "Flight of the Phoenix" thus seems entirely impossible. This line should probably be regarded as exaggeration, or just a goof.

*Pilot [[Louanne Katraine]] has apparently got her groove back from "[[Final Cut]]", and has become the lead pilot on ''Galactica'' following the transfer of Lee Adama and Kara Thrace to ''Pegasus''. Given that the ungifted [[George Birch]] was apparently the best to be found within ''Galactica's'' regular chain of command ([[Home, Part I]]), it's unsurprising that a talented nugget has risen to the top.
**In hindsight, her abuse of stims is actually in line with the single-minded zeal she approaches her job with. She has apparently learned to channel her perfectionism into a more constructive outlet.
**In choosing Birch Commander Adama decided to value loyalty way above everything else, Col. Tighs was quite suprised at that. With Adama rebalancing his requirements it's no suprise a better pilot got the position.

*Both Adama and Cain's assassination plans (taking advantage of a victory celebration in CIC) are exactly the same as the one used by Galactica-Boomer in Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II.

== Notes ==

*Fleet population is down to 49,604 to account for the death of [[Alistair Thorne]], Cylon Interrogator.
* Admiral Cain promotes Kara Thrace to the rank of captain. She replaces Stinger as ''Pegasus's'' CAG.
* The Cylon fleet containing the [[Resurrection Ship]] has been following [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]]. It was speculated that the Resurrection Ship was a safety net for any Cylons who died in the Fleet.
* During the closing R&D production company animation, in which David Eick is sliced in two by a bolt of lightning, House Resolution 2995 of the 109th Congress is mentioned in a news ticker. The resolution, introduced June 27, 2005, involves the creation of a "Weather Modification Operations and Research Board." Source: [http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-2995 GovTrack]
*In case there was any doubt, by this point the ''Galactica'' crew definitely knows that the blonde woman they first met as "Shelley Godfrey" is a humanoid Cylon, to the point that Roslin cracks a joke that she wouldn't mind waking up inside a gorgeous ''blonde''-haired body.
*Number Six likes [[pyramid (RDM)|pyramid]]. She went to live games often while she was on Caprica. She said it was because she loved the rush of raw emotions that would sweep over the crowd.
*Thrace still intends to recover Anders' [[Resistance (movement)|Resistance]] fighters from Caprica. Timeline wise, they have a little over a month of anti-radiation meds left.
*Tigh and Fisk have continued their status as drinking buddies.
*Roslin has developed a bad cough, perhaps evidence that her cancer has spread to her lungs, or that she has begun to suffer from opportunistic infections.
*Although Commander Adama does a good job of trying to "hide" it, when Adama leaves the sick Roslin he quickly wipes away a tear.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*'''Starbuck''': Starbuck to all vipers-- do not fire... repeat, do not fire! I am a friendly, okay? We're all friendlies. So, let's just...be friendly.

*'''Col. Tigh''': Ahh, another of <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]]'s] crazy ass stunts... thank the Gods!
:'''Commander Adama''': You can say that again!

*'''President Roslin''': The spirit of the law requires something more here than summary executions.
:'''Admiral Cain''': Is this what the two of you have been doing for the past six months? Debating the finer points of Colonial law? Well, guess what, we're at war! And we don't have the luxury of academic debate over these issues.

*'''President Roslin''': You have ''Pegasus'', he has ''Galactica''. Two heavily armed, very powerful warships. Now, I am sure that ''Pegasus'' would prevail in any fight--
:'''Commander Adama''': --I wouldn't count on that--
:'''President Roslin''': --But certainly, there'd be heavy damage and you'd take significant casualties. So you can go out there and fight it out with Galactica or you can compromise. And those are the only two options on the table, period.
:'''Admiral Cain''': ...How the two of you have survived this long, I will never know.

*''Discussing Admiral Cain:''
:'''President Roslin''': I afraid this can only end one way. You've got to kill her.
:'''Commander Adama''': What the hell are you talking about?
:'''President Roslin''': Like she said, let's cut through it. The two of you were willing to go to war today. Do you think she's going to step down from that? She's going to bide her time and hit you the first chance she gets. That's a given. I hate to lay this on you Bill, but she is dangerous and the only thing that you can do is to hit her before she hits you.
:'''Commander Adama''': I'm not an assassin.

*''First thing Gina speaks:''
'''Gina''': I want to die. Will you help me do that? Will you kill me, please?

*'''Baltar''': Were you aware of your true nature as a Cylon when you boarded the ship? Or would you describe you as a sleeper agent?
:'''Gina''': I knew what I was. I was a soldier. I-I had a mission, I carried it out. I thought that when it was done I was going to die. That you would kill me. Then I-- then I would download into a new body...be reborn. But you didn't kill me. The things you did to me.
:'''Baltar''': What they did to you was evil. But I'm not one of them. You have to believe me. Things are going to get better for you. From this moment on. I promise.
:'''Gina''': I don't want things to get better. I want to die.

*''President Roslin is bedridden, dying of cancer, and coughing profusely:''
:'''Commander Adama''': What can I get you?
:'''President Roslin''': A new body. Perhaps, one of those young Cylon models from the Resurrection Ship.
:'''Commander Adama''': I can't see you as a blonde.
:'''President Roslin''': You'd be surprised. (''Laughs'')

*''Scene intercuts between Commander Adama telling Starbuck to assassinate Admiral Cain, while at the same time Cain is ordering Col. Jack Fisk to assassinate Adama'':
:'''Admiral Cain''': Jack, I want to transfer a detachment of marines to Galactica. And I want you to handpick them. Completely reliable. Completely loyal. Razors.
:'''Commander Adama''': I have a mission for you, Kara.
:'''Starbuck''': Anything for you, you know that.
:'''Commander Adama''': Don't accept too quickly. You won't like this one. I don't like it. But I've decided that it has to be done.
:'''Admiral Cain''': I'm transferring you to Galactica, as well. I'll tell Adama that you're there to be my eyes and ears. He'll hate it. He'll think you're my spy and try to freeze you out of decision-making. But he'll accept it. Now I want you to stay in throughout the attack. Stay with Adama.
:'''Commander Adama''': After the attack is completed and you've accounted for your pilots I want you to land your bird on the Pegasus to report directly to CIC. You'll take Lee with you. He'll watch your back.
:'''Admiral Cain''': Position marines in key positions throughout the ship and keep a squad posted just outside CIC--
:'''Commander Adama''': --There'll the normal chaos emotional high after the attack--
:'''Admiral Cain''': --They'll be slapping each other on the back, celebrating the victory--
:'''Commander Adama''': --They'll keep their guard down--
:'''Admiral Cain''': --Security will be lax--
:'''Commander Adama''': --I will ask for you over the wireless--
:'''Admiral Cain''': --I will call you directly, and when I have you on the line and you hear me give the command, "execute Case Orange"--
:'''Commander Adama''': --When you hear me say "Downfall"--
:'''Admiral Cain''': --You are to signal the marines to terminate Adama's command...''starting'' with Adama--
:'''Commander Adama''': --I want you to pull out your weapon...and shoot Admiral Cain in the head. (''Starbuck is shocked'')

== Official Statements ==

== Guest stars ==
*[[Michelle Forbes]] as Admiral [[Helena Cain]]
*Graham Beckel as Colonel [[Jack Fisk]]
*Sebastian Spence as [[Whiplash]]
*John Pyper-Ferguson as Captain [[Cole Taylor|Cole "Stinger" Taylor]]
*Vincent Gale as Chief [[Peter Laird]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as Specialist [[Cally]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]

==Statistics==

* USA [[Wikipedia:Nielsen Ratings|Nielsen Ratings]]: 2.1 household rating

{{Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category:Episodes with story by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]

Flight of the Phoenix

2006-04-23T18:46:01Z

Nevfennas: /* Questions */ typos

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Blackbird_FotP.JPG|300px]]
| Title=Flight of the Phoenix
| Series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| Season=[[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode=9
| Guests=
| Writer=[[Bradley Thompson]] & [[David Weddle]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Nankin]]
| Production=2.09
| Rating= 1.9
| US Airdate=September 16 2005
| UK Airdate=March 7 2006
| DVD=December 20 2005 (US Season 2.0)
| Population=47,853
| Prev=[[Final Cut]]
| Next=[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
}}

== Overview ==

:''Galactica is besieged, first internally by [[Cylon]] computer viruses, then externally by a large imminent Cylon attack force. Faced with a [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] shortage, [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] tackles the difficult task of building them from scratch. Meanwhile, [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] is dealing with the repercussions of his relationship with [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], a known [[Cylon agent]].''

== Summary ==
* [[Laura Roslin]]'s illness has reached a critical level. While she is still well enough to walk, Dr. [[Cottle]] gives her approximately one month to live.
* [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] has become ''persona non grata'' to many of the crew who distrust him due to his romance with the Caprica copy of [[Cylon agent]] [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]].
* Many of the crew, even the generally level-headed and reliable Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]], are showing the strain of the apparent futility and fatigue of running from the Cylons.
* Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]], with also little else to do with scrapped Vipers, begins a project to craft a new fighter. Initially many crew are very skeptical, but soon many others help Tyrol.
* Helo suggests carbon composite material for the skin in lieu of the rare plate metal for the fighter. Like the American F/A-22 Raptor Air-Dominance Fighter's low visibility to [[Wikipedia:Radar|RADAR]], Tyrol's new ship is nearly invisible to [[DRADIS]].
* [[Kara Thrace]] and [[Lee Adama]] nearly suffocate when the life-support systems on the [[firing range]] malfunction.
* A Cylon [[Logic bomb]] has attacked ship's systems and will fully control ''[[Galactica]]'' once an expected Cylon force arrives to activate it by infiltration. Gaeta and Baltar work together to figure a way to rid the ship of it by erasing the hard drives of all computers. Doing this, however, would leave the ship a sitting duck for an attack while time is needed to restore function and data to the computers.
* Adama, after asking the advice of the President, allows the Caprica Valerii to connect herself to the ship's mainframe and communication systems while Gaeta and Baltar erase the hard drives of all computers.
* A Cylon fighter armada consisting of hundreds of [[Raider]]s and [[Heavy Raider]]s attempts to activate the bomb. However, Valerii responds by transmitting a version of the same bomb to the Cylon fleet, disabling it as the Cylons did the Colonial fleet during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. The Viper squadrons annihilate the helpless Cylon fleet in a joyous moment of payback.
* Kara Thrace takes the new fighter, dubbed the [[Blackbird]], for a initially ungainly test spin. This fighter was designed for speed, and delivers it. Lee Adama, in a Viper chase plane, is horrified when the Blackbird disappears, but Kara rises above to face his ship quietly, proving the new fighter's stealth ability.
* In a ceremony similar to the one given to Commander Adama in the [[Miniseries]], President Roslin inspects and christens the new fighter. Many sign the ship. Tyrol reveals the name of this first fighter: ''Laura''.
* The mere work on the new fighter renewed the creativity and hope of the crew--a reason why Adama allowed its construction to continue, despite the logic bomb crisis.

== Questions ==
* This episode was rare in that Baltar's [[Number Six]] was completely absent in this episode, despite the Cylon-rich plot. What would she have said about Valerii's aid or the logic bomb?
**According to RDM's podcast Number Six was in this episode in one scene which was in the end deleted for time; in it Baltar gets up from working on the Cylon virus with Gaeta and has a conversation with Six standing in the middle of CIC.
*It is unlikely that the Caprica-Valerii's presence on ''Galactica'' is a secret to her crew since extraordinary measures were made to house her. It is possible that Adama is using a lie-of-omission to cover the existence of the second Valerii to the civilian fleet, since it is very likely that her likeness has been distributed to the rest of the fleet as a warning to keep a watch for other copies, a policy established in a Season 1 episode. While is it improbable that the death of the Galactica-Valerii could be fully contained, it is probable that Adama realizes that rumor and innuendo will disguise the fact that they harbor a second copy for interrogation purposes. In the [[Final Cut|previous episode]], Commander Adama angrily ordered [[D'anna Biers]] not to reveal her existence because it could divide the Fleet. There is likely an order to all under Adama's command not to discuss the existence of the second Valerii outside of military circles, although it would not likely stop them from discussing the matter amongst themselves.
*Is [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] attracted to Apollo (or vice versa)? Dualla seemed to "check out" Apollo's "backside" in "[[Resistance]]", and now she's in close physical contact with him. And Apollo has what almost might be called a jealous look when Billy shows up. Yet in "[[Home, Part I]]" Lee let it slip in conversation that he "loves" Starbuck (he didn't necessarily say it in more than platonic/fraternal way, however).
*Helo got angry at Chief Tyrol for calling Boomer a [[Toaster]]; is this a sign that Helo is thinking more sympathetically towards the Cylons than before? Like the Cylons, does he consider it an "offensive racial epithet"?
* Also with regard to Helo, where did he get the idea to use carbon-composite on the Blackbird? Is that something he thought up himself, or perhaps did Caprica-Valerii 'point' him in that direction?
**There is nothing to indicate that Caprica-Sharon influenced his decision for this.
*Is order on ''Galactica'' starting to break down? In the [[Miniseries]] Starbuck was put in the [[brig]] for striking a superior officer. Now, Starbuck assaulted Racetrack but there were was no visible punishment, and Tyrol got into a fight with Helo (who outranks him), also with no shown punishment. The deck crews aren't bothering to hide the [[Wikipedia:still|still]] they built as much as before, going to far as to have a large "Welcome Back Cally" party with its products in public. Col. Tigh makes a halfhearted verbal chastisement of Tyrol when Tigh finds the still, but doesn't do anything about it and ends up taking a jar of booze for his own use. Also, even Lt. Gaeta is now snapping back at the command officers, shouting and even [[frak|cursing]].
**Noone else appears to be around when Helo and Tyrol fight (quite odd, as they appear to be in the maintenance area). For Tyrol to be punished Helo would have to report the fight. Given the nature of the argument it's quite plausible that he would refrain from doing that. As both Starbuck and Racetrack are officers there is no assault on a superior involved in their fight (though Starbuck probably outranks Racetrack on seniority). Again the fight would have to be brought to attention of Col. Tigh for punishment to take place. It's quite likely that the pilots kept the incident to themselves. This is not an option in the Miniseries as Tigh himself is the superior Starbuck assaults.
*Was the software code Helo showed to Caprica-Boomer only a virus or did it contain instructions outside the scope of destabilizing and controlling ''Galactica's'' systems? Valerii's response to the code seemed to indicate it had affected her on some level. Perhaps was she merely compiling it in her head.
*If the Cylons are so interested and cautious about protecting Caprica-Boomer and her unborn child as stated by [[Aaron Doral]] in "[[Final Cut]]", why then are they willing to launch a massive assault against ''Galactica?''
*To what extent is Cylon knowledge & experiences shared? We know that [[Cylon agent]]s can transfer their consciousness to other copies of themselves ([[Miniseries]]), but are other Cylon models (such as the drones) interconnected? They would have to be on some level for Caprica-Boomer's trick to work. Is there some 'collective consciousness' at work (similar to the 'Borg' in Star Trek)?
**Caprica-Boomer seemed to imply in "[[Home, Part I]]" that she wasn't involuntarily in constant communication with the other Cylons through some sort of wireless communication net. She probably "switched off" her connection when she went on the run for real in "[[Flesh and Bone]]", because two Cylons talking amongst themselves (Six and Doral) said that they didn't know what she was planning (or thinking).

== Analysis ==
* While Cylon agents appear human to the cellular level, Sharon could control a fiber-optic connection inserted into her forearm. This suggests that the biological design of Cylon agents uses light-sensitive cells disguised as regular cells in their forearms as data access nodes, probably involving the cells interacting with her [[Silica Pathways|Silica Relays]] in her brain, the last vestiges of the mechanical nature of Cylon agents. Based on Valerii's extreme discomfort in having to cut herself to interface with the data line in this way, it could be presumed that this is not a typical practice for Cylon agents.
* Continuing from "[[Resistance]]", Dualla is shown being attracted to Apollo.
* Tyrol's comment to Lee Adama on the lack of miracles, and his answer to the problem, may remind some of another [http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TOS/character/1112502.html great miracle worker] of television science fiction.
* Despite Valerii's belief that she has become a "liability" to the Cylons, the previous episode made it clear that at least some Cylons considered the survival of her baby a paramount concern. The virus, installed before her arrival, was probably oblivious to this, but the massive fleet the Cylons deployed to interdict ''Galactica'' could not have been. Additionally, an earnest attack would almost certainly have included a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]. We must therefore assume that the Cylons had a more complicated motive in making such a massive material sacrifice.
** Perhaps they hoped to furnish Valerii with an opportunity to demonstrate her loyalty and strategic value to the fleet, thus enabling her to ensure her future safety.
** Alternatively, perhaps the fleet was sent to ''remove'' the logic bomb from ''Galactica'', now that it was putting Valerii in harm's way. However, why so many, and why did one of the Raiders try to activate the logic bomb?
** Perhaps there are different Cylon factions working at cross purposes.
**The armada contained several Heavy Raiders as well--perhaps the Cylons were planning on boarding Galactica and taking Sharon by force.
**Sharon could have just been "assuming" that she was a liability, and simply be wrong. The virus itself was introduced into the ship in "[[Scattered]]" and that was before Caprica-Boomer arrived on ''Galactica.'' In "[[Final Cut]]" it was established that by that episode the Cylons were surprised that Sharon was still alive (they didn't know): perhaps they didn't know she was on ''Galactica'' up to that point. But by this point, however, the Cylons knew Sharon was on ''Galactica'' when the attack was launched. The virus appears to have just been acting out its function since "[[Scattered]]" (ignorant that its actions would destroy Sharon). However, this doesn't clearly explain why the massive Raider attack was launched.
* Our heroes passed up a major opportunity by destroying the Cylon fleet. Adama revoked Roslin's presidency on the basis of the misappropriation of a SINGLE captured Cylon Raider, yet they eliminated dozens of crippled-but-serviceable assets in the name of retribution. After all that work to create a single new fighter, wouldn't a squadron of superior Raiders be worth maintaining in the unused starboard flight pod?
**A point against the idea of capturing a Raider involves the lucky manner in obtaining the first one. The Raider in "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]" was brain-dead from a lucky shot. The Raiders here were turned off by a virus, but it may have been too difficult to remove all of their control mechanisms. Since these are in fact organic mechanisms that could still be fighting to survive, they may have their own ability of causing additional harm if captured alive.
**Further, ''Galactica'' had not idea how long it would be until Cylon reinforcements showed up; they probably didn't want to wait for a Basestar to come. Further, the civilian fleet had jumped away from ''Galactica'' in anticipation of the attack, and ''Galactica'' probably didn't want to leave them unattended too long. There wasn't enough time and it was too dangerous.
**At this point, ''Galactica'' could have as many as two Heavy Raiders already—the one that crash-landed into the starboard pod in "[[Scattered]]" and the one Starbuck, Helo, and Sharon returned with in [[Home, Part II]]
***The Heavy Raider that crash landed in "Scattered" may have suffered irreparable damage.
***One of the Heavy Raiders' (most likely the one from "[[The Farm]]") brains was used in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]" as a means of plotting multiple long jumps back to Caprica.
*As noted below, Helo is now a Viper pilot. This isn't unexpected, as the fleet's desperation in training new Viper pilots has led them to recruit otherwise unqualified candidates ([[Act of Contrition]]). Compared to these rapidly trained nuggets, a trained military pilot such as Helo, even if he wasn't qualified and trained as a Viper pilot, would be a great asset. It's likely that he was given some training between "[[Home, Part I]]"/"[[Home, Part II]]" and this episode.
*It was Helo that suggested the use of carbon composites for the Blackbird, and Starbuck says "Good call, Helo" after it is finished – showing that despite everything, Helo's opinions are still respected, perhaps symbolic of his redemption in the eyes of his crewmates.

===Deus Ex Machina Dilemmas in this Episode===
Some viewers may express confusion over the amount of time necessary to build the new fighter as well as the time it took to fight off the logic bomb and the Cylon attack. All in all, the whole episode may seem like a series of ''deus ex machina'' events to close up the episode.

To the episode's credit, it appears that several days' worth of time elapsed in the episode. This might stretch believability in the fighter's construction, but not in the logic bomb crisis. It must be noted that the breakdown in morale has left many of the crew with ''very'' little to do that's worthwhile in their free time. A monumental task such as building a fighter may be easy for a highly motivated, highly skilled and '''highly bored''' group of people. (Note the near-cheerful disposition of the workers when Lee Adama and Tigh visit the fighter.)

Further, the fighter was aided by specialists of particular fields in its construction--something that the Chief hasn't the luxury of having while in combat situations. As such, he had more willing and able resources at his command to create the ship than during any Viper repair. The crew also was not under pressure to build the system rapidly; there were many contributors, and work such of this led to a fast build time. It may also be presumed that the Viper design, of which the Blackbird is derived, may have a simple construction of [[avionics]], crew pressure module, engines, and superstructure. These ships are designed for rapid repair and redeploy, so, aside from the Blackbird's initial framework, much of the ship would likely be similar to a Viper. Also, the Blackbird is likely built with more modern technology than that found in the older and harder-to-service Viper Mk. II fighters--the Blackbird is likely descended more from the advanced Mk. VII Viper, of which Tyrol's crew was trained to understand and maintain, not the ancient Viper Mk. II museum pieces.

It was also established in the episode that there were spare spacecraft parts available to Tyrol—at the beginning of an episode he marks a severely damaged Viper for scrap, and Col. Tigh walks in on his still and informs him of some extra engines and other parts that another ship in the fleet is trying to dispose of. Given the ability to cannibalize already-built parts, the assembly of the Blackbird is not as great a task as building a Viper from scratch might be.

Given that the Blackbird wasn't employed in the main plot to, say, take on the hundreds of Cylon fighters in a desperate attack using last-minute technology, the ship was an interesting development. Some viewers may wonder why the Colonials have never built (or why viewers have never seen) a stealth craft to date, or why the Cylons haven't used them in their attacks. Generally speaking, technology usually appears when there is a need for it, and not merely a desire for it. Since both sides are very dependent on DRADIS for coordination and tactical advantage in a fight, the idea of commanding a squadron of ships you cannot see on your own tactical plot can be a bit challenging. Further, while the Colonials still had a standing force in case the Cylons returned, such sneaky technology may seem out of mind to defense strategists when there's no enemy about to test it--especially an enigmatic one such as the Cylons. The Colonials were more intent (at least, up until Baltar's time) to defend itself by using less sophisticated technology and basic war principles such as armor and superiority of numbers, not in making high-tech, fly-by-wire ships with complex evasive ability. As Starbuck seemed to prove in the Blackbird's maiden flight, no amount of technology will compensate for the power of a good pilot and her [[Mark One Eyeball]].

In his podcast for this episode, [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron D. Moore]] acknowledges the build-time dilemma for the Blackbird, and notes that the vagueness of time elapsed to build the machine was intentional so as to allow it to be built and done with in one episode, instead of drawing out the building into two or three episodes.

== Notes ==

* Population count is 47,853. This is the first time this season that there has been no net change in the count from the previous episode ([[Final Cut]]).
* ''[[Wikipedia:Flight of the Phoenix|Flight of the Phoenix]]'' is the title of a 1964 novel where survivors from a plane crash in the middle of a desert attempt to rebuild the plane from the wreckage. Two movies, one made in 1965 and the other in 2004, were also made following a similar story line inspired by the book.
* The [[Wikipedia:Phoenix (mythology)|phoenix]] is an animal from Egyptian mythology (and those derived) that, at the end of its lifespan, burns into ashes from which another arises.
* The [[Blackbird]], a new stealth fighter craft, has been constructed by Chief Tyrol with help from the crew.
* Helo now wears a Viper patch on his flightsuit. He wasn't visibly identified as piloting one of the Vipers deployed against the Cylons, but he may have been.
* There is a wide shot when apparently ''all'' of ''Galactica's'' Vipers are deployed where it's possible to count how many they have: there are 42 Vipers visible onscreen. Oddly, the current count says that there should be no more than 34, and even with [[Joe Palladino]] (unrealistically) on parole after [[Final Cut]] and Helo in a Viper, ''Galactica'' shouldn't be able to muster more than 25 pilots.
** There are at least 7 Viper Mk. VII's visible in this shot. This agrees well with [[Scattered]].
* This is the first episode without an appearance by [[Number Six]].
* When Chief Tyrol reconciles with Cally (regarding her killing Galactica-Boomer), she reaches into a Viper and fixes something he couldn't reach, and he responds "Nice to be small, huh?". This is reminiscent of the scene at the end of the [[Miniseries]], when they have almost the exact same exchange. In that scene, they were reconciling after ''Cally'' got angry that Tyrol was having a relationship with Galactica-Boomer.
* President Roslin returns the book "[[Dark Day]]" to Commander Adama, which he gave to her back in the second episode, "[[Water]]".
* Chief Tyrol and Galactica-Boomer were planning to leave the military together and get married before the Cylon attack.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*Apollo: Nobody's expecting a miracle.
:Tyrol: Maybe that's the problem.

*''Discussing Helo's return to ''Galactica'':''
:Duck: So he's the Cylon lover.
:Starbuck: You know what? I don't care who or what he fraks. He saved my ass down there, all right?
:Duck:How could anyone fall in love with a toaster, though?
:Starbuck: Same way I hear everyone was high-fiving our Sharon right before she put two in Adama's chest. The bastards frak with your head.
:Hotdog: Yeah. Just ask the Chief.

*''Card game in the Viper pilot's lockeroom:''
:Racetrack: Been playing with these cards for so long, I know every fold.
:Starbuck: So life's a bitch. What do you want to do, cry about it?
:Racetrack: No, I just want it to end, okay? The bad food, the endless rotations, pretending that a card game is the high point of our day.
:Starbuck: It's not going to last forever, all right? Earth is out there.
:Racetrack: Right. We could all be chasing our tails over some half-assed planetarium show.
:Starbuck: And you guys can all go to hell. I'm going to go find Helo.
:Racetrack: Good idea. Maybe that Cylon whore taught him a few tricks.

''(Starbuck politely turns around, walks over to Racetrack and grabs her by the neck and slams her head into the card table).''

*''Helo is sitting in Sharon's old Raptor when the Chief walks up:''
:Helo: Hey! Look, Chief. I never intended for Sharon and I to-- You know, it just kind of evolved.
:Tyrol: Just a couple lovesick kids, huh?
:Helo: I know how she felt about you, okay? She loves you.
:Tyrol: Did she fill you in on the rest of the plan? She and I were going to muster out at the end of our service. You know, then we would get married. Maybe we would have children. I guess I'm just a big frakkin' idiot, though, huh? Probably that goddamn [[Toaster]]'s plan all along.
:Helo: Don't call her that.
:Tyrol: Sucker some moron into giving her a kid. Hey, you know, but you know what? I should probably be grateful to you. Probably be grateful. You know why? Because that freak in her belly could have been mine! ''(Helo and Tyrol fight)''

*''Lt. Gaeta is starting to lose his composure under constant pressure:''
:Gaeta: Sir, I'm running every diagnostic we've got. Checking each line of code could take days.
:Tigh: I am not interested in excuses. Fix it!
:Gaeta: (''shouting'') It's not an excuse, sir. It's a frakking fact!

*Commander Adama: Months on the run, and what do we have to show for it? Casualties. Deteriorating conditions. This crew needs a rest. It's finally hitting them, that's all. Our old lives are gone. The only thing we have to look forward to is this.

*''Tigh walks into the tool closet on the hanger deck''
:Tigh: What's this, Chief?
:Tyrol: I'm making solvent, sir, to clean machine parts.
:Tigh: Solvent my ass. I know a still when I smell it.

*''Starbuck is taking the [[Blackbird]] on its first test flight while Apollo follows:''
:Apollo: Starbuck, Starbuck, where are you? Starbuck, come in. Starbuck, do you read? Kara, are you okay?
:Starbuck: (''Starbuck turns the lights of the Blackbird on; she's actually got her ship feet away from Apollo's, facing it'') Of course you lost contact. It's a damned stealth ship, remember?

*Roslin: Oh, you're much too modest. After what we've been through, it would be very easy to give up, to lose hope. But not here. Not today. This is more than a ship, Chief. This is an act of faith. It is proof that despite all we've lost, we keep trying. And we will get through this, all of us, together. I promise.

== Official Statements ==

*In an [http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm interview with BattlestarGalactica.com on December 28th, 2005] RDM was asked about the continuity problems noticed with the number of Vipers deployed in this episode:

: "Q: In the battle scene with the Cylons in "Flight of the Phoenix", some think they see more Vipers than pilots, there is the presence of many Mark 7 Vipers, and the Blackbird is in flight before its maiden voyage. Was this effects shot the victim of a script change or something in the editing room? Was the episode originally intended to appear after the Pegasus encounter?

: RDM: To be honest, I don't recall the exact number of Vipers in the shot or where we were in the continuity at that point. I do recall the topic coming up in various VFX and production meetings, and I think there was at least an initial rationale for the number on screen -- but it's entirely possible that we cheated a bit in Post in order to make the shot a little sexier. Sorry. It happens."

== Guest stars ==
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as Specialist [[Cally]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmonson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmonson]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Dominic Zamprogna]] as Specialist [[Jammer]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendant "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0356501/ Jen Halley] as [[Seelix]]
*[http://imdb.com/name/nm0856351/ Christian Tessier] as [[Tucker Clellan|Duck]]
*Don Thompson as [[Anthony Figurski]]

== Statistics ==


* USA [[Wikipedia:Nielsen Ratings|Nielsen Ratings]]: 1.9 household rating

{{Episode List}}

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)]] [[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]

Flight of the Phoenix

2006-04-23T18:27:51Z

Nevfennas: /* Questions */ answer

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Blackbird_FotP.JPG|300px]]
| Title=Flight of the Phoenix
| Series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| Season=[[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode=9
| Guests=
| Writer=[[Bradley Thompson]] & [[David Weddle]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Michael Nankin]]
| Production=2.09
| Rating= 1.9
| US Airdate=September 16 2005
| UK Airdate=March 7 2006
| DVD=December 20 2005 (US Season 2.0)
| Population=47,853
| Prev=[[Final Cut]]
| Next=[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
}}

== Overview ==

:''Galactica is besieged, first internally by [[Cylon]] computer viruses, then externally by a large imminent Cylon attack force. Faced with a [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] shortage, [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] tackles the difficult task of building them from scratch. Meanwhile, [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] is dealing with the repercussions of his relationship with [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]], a known [[Cylon agent]].''

== Summary ==
* [[Laura Roslin]]'s illness has reached a critical level. While she is still well enough to walk, Dr. [[Cottle]] gives her approximately one month to live.
* [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] has become ''persona non grata'' to many of the crew who distrust him due to his romance with the Caprica copy of [[Cylon agent]] [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]].
* Many of the crew, even the generally level-headed and reliable Lieutenant [[Felix Gaeta|Gaeta]], are showing the strain of the apparent futility and fatigue of running from the Cylons.
* Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]], with also little else to do with scrapped Vipers, begins a project to craft a new fighter. Initially many crew are very skeptical, but soon many others help Tyrol.
* Helo suggests carbon composite material for the skin in lieu of the rare plate metal for the fighter. Like the American F/A-22 Raptor Air-Dominance Fighter's low visibility to [[Wikipedia:Radar|RADAR]], Tyrol's new ship is nearly invisible to [[DRADIS]].
* [[Kara Thrace]] and [[Lee Adama]] nearly suffocate when the life-support systems on the [[firing range]] malfunction.
* A Cylon [[Logic bomb]] has attacked ship's systems and will fully control ''[[Galactica]]'' once an expected Cylon force arrives to activate it by infiltration. Gaeta and Baltar work together to figure a way to rid the ship of it by erasing the hard drives of all computers. Doing this, however, would leave the ship a sitting duck for an attack while time is needed to restore function and data to the computers.
* Adama, after asking the advice of the President, allows the Caprica Valerii to connect herself to the ship's mainframe and communication systems while Gaeta and Baltar erase the hard drives of all computers.
* A Cylon fighter armada consisting of hundreds of [[Raider]]s and [[Heavy Raider]]s attempts to activate the bomb. However, Valerii responds by transmitting a version of the same bomb to the Cylon fleet, disabling it as the Cylons did the Colonial fleet during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. The Viper squadrons annihilate the helpless Cylon fleet in a joyous moment of payback.
* Kara Thrace takes the new fighter, dubbed the [[Blackbird]], for a initially ungainly test spin. This fighter was designed for speed, and delivers it. Lee Adama, in a Viper chase plane, is horrified when the Blackbird disappears, but Kara rises above to face his ship quietly, proving the new fighter's stealth ability.
* In a ceremony similar to the one given to Commander Adama in the [[Miniseries]], President Roslin inspects and christens the new fighter. Many sign the ship. Tyrol reveals the name of this first fighter: ''Laura''.
* The mere work on the new fighter renewed the creativity and hope of the crew--a reason why Adama allowed its construction to continue, despite the logic bomb crisis.

== Questions ==
* This episode was rare in that Baltar's [[Number Six]] was completely absent in this episode, despite the Cylon-rich plot. What would she have said about Valerii's aid or the logic bomb?
**According to RDM's podcast Number Six was in this episode in one scene which was in the end deleted for time; in it Baltar gets up from working on the Cylon virus with Gaeta and has a conversation with Six standing in the middle of CIC.
*It is unlikely that the Caprica-Valerii's presence on ''Galactica'' is a secret to her crew since extraordinary measures were made to house her. It is possible that Adama is using a lie-of-omission to cover the existence of the second Valerii to the civilian fleet, since it is very likely that her likeness has been distributed to the rest of the fleet as a warning to keep a watch for other copies, a policy established in a Season 1 episode. While is it improbable that the death of the Galactica-Valerii could be fully contained, it is probable that Adama realizes that rumor and innuendo will disguise the fact that they harbor a second copy for interrogation purposes. In the [[Final Cut|previous episode]], Commander Adama angrily ordered [[D'anna Biers]] not to reveal her existence because it could divide the Fleet. There is likely an order to all under Adama's command not to discuss the existence of the second Valerii outside of military circles, although it would not likely stop them from discussing the matter amongst themselves.
*Is [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] attracted to Apollo (or vice versa)? Dualla seemed to "check out" Apollo's "backside" in "[[Resistance]]", and now she's in close physical contact with him. And Apollo has what almost might be called a jealous look when Billy shows up. Yet in "[[Home, Part I]]" Lee let it slip in conversation that he "loves" Starbuck (he didn't necessarily say it in more than platonic/fraternal way, however).
*Helo got angry at Chief Tyrol for calling Boomer a [[Toaster]]; is this a sign that Helo is thinking more sympathetically towards the Cylons than before? Like the Cylons, does he consider it an "offensive racial epithet"?
* Also with regard to Helo, where did he get the idea to use carbon-composite on the Blackbird? Is that something he thought up himself, or perhaps did Caprica-Valerii 'point' him in that direction?
**There is nothing to indicate that Caprica-Sharon influenced his decision for this.
*Is order on ''Galactica'' starting to break down? In the [[Miniseries]] Starbuck was put in the [[brig]] for striking a superior officer. Now, Starbuck assaulted Racetrack but there were was no visible punishment, and Tyrol got into a fight with Helo (who outranks him), also with no shown punishment. The deck crews aren't bothering to hide the [[Wikipedia:still|still]] they built as much as before, going to far as to have a large "Welcome Back Cally" party with its products in public. Col. Tigh makes a halfhearted verbal chastisement of Tyrol when Tigh finds the still, but doesn't do anything about it and ends up taking a jar of booze for his own use. Also, even Lt. Gaeta is now snapping back at the command officers, shouting and even [[frak|cursing]].
:*Noone else appears to be arround when Helo and Tyrol fight (quite odd, as they appear to be in the maintenance area). For Tyrol to be punished Helo would have to report the fight. Given the nature of the argument it's quite plausible that he would refrain from doing that. As both Starbuck and Racetrack are officers there is no assault on a superior involved in their fight (though Starbuck probably outranks Racetrack on seniority). Again the fight would have to be brought to attention of Col. Tigh for punishment to take place, it's quite likley that the pilots kept the incident to themselves. This was not an option in the Miniseries as Tigh himself was the superior Starbuck assaulted.
*Was the software code Helo showed to Caprica-Boomer only a virus or did it contain instructions outside the scope of destabilizing and controlling ''Galactica's'' systems? Valerii's response to the code seemed to indicate it had affected her on some level. Perhaps was she merely compiling it in her head.
*If the Cylons are so interested and cautious about protecting Caprica-Boomer and her unborn child as stated by [[Aaron Doral]] in "[[Final Cut]]", why then are they willing to launch a massive assault against ''Galactica?''
*To what extent is Cylon knowledge & experiences shared? We know that [[Cylon agent]]s can transfer their consciousness to other copies of themselves ([[Miniseries]]), but are other Cylon models (such as the drones) interconnected? They would have to be on some level for Caprica-Boomer's trick to work. Is there some 'collective consciousness' at work (similar to the 'Borg' in Star Trek)?
**Caprica-Boomer seemed to imply in "[[Home, Part I]]" that she wasn't involuntarily in constant communication with the other Cylons through some sort of wireless communication net. She probably "switched off" her connection when she went on the run for real in "[[Flesh and Bone]]", because two Cylons talking amongst themselves (Six and Doral) said that they didn't know what she was planning (or thinking).

== Analysis ==
* While Cylon agents appear human to the cellular level, Sharon could control a fiber-optic connection inserted into her forearm. This suggests that the biological design of Cylon agents uses light-sensitive cells disguised as regular cells in their forearms as data access nodes, probably involving the cells interacting with her [[Silica Pathways|Silica Relays]] in her brain, the last vestiges of the mechanical nature of Cylon agents. Based on Valerii's extreme discomfort in having to cut herself to interface with the data line in this way, it could be presumed that this is not a typical practice for Cylon agents.
* Continuing from "[[Resistance]]", Dualla is shown being attracted to Apollo.
* Tyrol's comment to Lee Adama on the lack of miracles, and his answer to the problem, may remind some of another [http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TOS/character/1112502.html great miracle worker] of television science fiction.
* Despite Valerii's belief that she has become a "liability" to the Cylons, the previous episode made it clear that at least some Cylons considered the survival of her baby a paramount concern. The virus, installed before her arrival, was probably oblivious to this, but the massive fleet the Cylons deployed to interdict ''Galactica'' could not have been. Additionally, an earnest attack would almost certainly have included a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]]. We must therefore assume that the Cylons had a more complicated motive in making such a massive material sacrifice.
** Perhaps they hoped to furnish Valerii with an opportunity to demonstrate her loyalty and strategic value to the fleet, thus enabling her to ensure her future safety.
** Alternatively, perhaps the fleet was sent to ''remove'' the logic bomb from ''Galactica'', now that it was putting Valerii in harm's way. However, why so many, and why did one of the Raiders try to activate the logic bomb?
** Perhaps there are different Cylon factions working at cross purposes.
**The armada contained several Heavy Raiders as well--perhaps the Cylons were planning on boarding Galactica and taking Sharon by force.
**Sharon could have just been "assuming" that she was a liability, and simply be wrong. The virus itself was introduced into the ship in "[[Scattered]]" and that was before Caprica-Boomer arrived on ''Galactica.'' In "[[Final Cut]]" it was established that by that episode the Cylons were surprised that Sharon was still alive (they didn't know): perhaps they didn't know she was on ''Galactica'' up to that point. But by this point, however, the Cylons knew Sharon was on ''Galactica'' when the attack was launched. The virus appears to have just been acting out its function since "[[Scattered]]" (ignorant that its actions would destroy Sharon). However, this doesn't clearly explain why the massive Raider attack was launched.
* Our heroes passed up a major opportunity by destroying the Cylon fleet. Adama revoked Roslin's presidency on the basis of the misappropriation of a SINGLE captured Cylon Raider, yet they eliminated dozens of crippled-but-serviceable assets in the name of retribution. After all that work to create a single new fighter, wouldn't a squadron of superior Raiders be worth maintaining in the unused starboard flight pod?
**A point against the idea of capturing a Raider involves the lucky manner in obtaining the first one. The Raider in "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]" was brain-dead from a lucky shot. The Raiders here were turned off by a virus, but it may have been too difficult to remove all of their control mechanisms. Since these are in fact organic mechanisms that could still be fighting to survive, they may have their own ability of causing additional harm if captured alive.
**Further, ''Galactica'' had not idea how long it would be until Cylon reinforcements showed up; they probably didn't want to wait for a Basestar to come. Further, the civilian fleet had jumped away from ''Galactica'' in anticipation of the attack, and ''Galactica'' probably didn't want to leave them unattended too long. There wasn't enough time and it was too dangerous.
**At this point, ''Galactica'' could have as many as two Heavy Raiders already—the one that crash-landed into the starboard pod in "[[Scattered]]" and the one Starbuck, Helo, and Sharon returned with in [[Home, Part II]]
***The Heavy Raider that crash landed in "Scattered" may have suffered irreparable damage.
***One of the Heavy Raiders' (most likely the one from "[[The Farm]]") brains was used in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]" as a means of plotting multiple long jumps back to Caprica.
*As noted below, Helo is now a Viper pilot. This isn't unexpected, as the fleet's desperation in training new Viper pilots has led them to recruit otherwise unqualified candidates ([[Act of Contrition]]). Compared to these rapidly trained nuggets, a trained military pilot such as Helo, even if he wasn't qualified and trained as a Viper pilot, would be a great asset. It's likely that he was given some training between "[[Home, Part I]]"/"[[Home, Part II]]" and this episode.
*It was Helo that suggested the use of carbon composites for the Blackbird, and Starbuck says "Good call, Helo" after it is finished – showing that despite everything, Helo's opinions are still respected, perhaps symbolic of his redemption in the eyes of his crewmates.

===Deus Ex Machina Dilemmas in this Episode===
Some viewers may express confusion over the amount of time necessary to build the new fighter as well as the time it took to fight off the logic bomb and the Cylon attack. All in all, the whole episode may seem like a series of ''deus ex machina'' events to close up the episode.

To the episode's credit, it appears that several days' worth of time elapsed in the episode. This might stretch believability in the fighter's construction, but not in the logic bomb crisis. It must be noted that the breakdown in morale has left many of the crew with ''very'' little to do that's worthwhile in their free time. A monumental task such as building a fighter may be easy for a highly motivated, highly skilled and '''highly bored''' group of people. (Note the near-cheerful disposition of the workers when Lee Adama and Tigh visit the fighter.)

Further, the fighter was aided by specialists of particular fields in its construction--something that the Chief hasn't the luxury of having while in combat situations. As such, he had more willing and able resources at his command to create the ship than during any Viper repair. The crew also was not under pressure to build the system rapidly; there were many contributors, and work such of this led to a fast build time. It may also be presumed that the Viper design, of which the Blackbird is derived, may have a simple construction of [[avionics]], crew pressure module, engines, and superstructure. These ships are designed for rapid repair and redeploy, so, aside from the Blackbird's initial framework, much of the ship would likely be similar to a Viper. Also, the Blackbird is likely built with more modern technology than that found in the older and harder-to-service Viper Mk. II fighters--the Blackbird is likely descended more from the advanced Mk. VII Viper, of which Tyrol's crew was trained to understand and maintain, not the ancient Viper Mk. II museum pieces.

It was also established in the episode that there were spare spacecraft parts available to Tyrol—at the beginning of an episode he marks a severely damaged Viper for scrap, and Col. Tigh walks in on his still and informs him of some extra engines and other parts that another ship in the fleet is trying to dispose of. Given the ability to cannibalize already-built parts, the assembly of the Blackbird is not as great a task as building a Viper from scratch might be.

Given that the Blackbird wasn't employed in the main plot to, say, take on the hundreds of Cylon fighters in a desperate attack using last-minute technology, the ship was an interesting development. Some viewers may wonder why the Colonials have never built (or why viewers have never seen) a stealth craft to date, or why the Cylons haven't used them in their attacks. Generally speaking, technology usually appears when there is a need for it, and not merely a desire for it. Since both sides are very dependent on DRADIS for coordination and tactical advantage in a fight, the idea of commanding a squadron of ships you cannot see on your own tactical plot can be a bit challenging. Further, while the Colonials still had a standing force in case the Cylons returned, such sneaky technology may seem out of mind to defense strategists when there's no enemy about to test it--especially an enigmatic one such as the Cylons. The Colonials were more intent (at least, up until Baltar's time) to defend itself by using less sophisticated technology and basic war principles such as armor and superiority of numbers, not in making high-tech, fly-by-wire ships with complex evasive ability. As Starbuck seemed to prove in the Blackbird's maiden flight, no amount of technology will compensate for the power of a good pilot and her [[Mark One Eyeball]].

In his podcast for this episode, [[Ronald D. Moore|Ron D. Moore]] acknowledges the build-time dilemma for the Blackbird, and notes that the vagueness of time elapsed to build the machine was intentional so as to allow it to be built and done with in one episode, instead of drawing out the building into two or three episodes.

== Notes ==

* Population count is 47,853. This is the first time this season that there has been no net change in the count from the previous episode ([[Final Cut]]).
* ''[[Wikipedia:Flight of the Phoenix|Flight of the Phoenix]]'' is the title of a 1964 novel where survivors from a plane crash in the middle of a desert attempt to rebuild the plane from the wreckage. Two movies, one made in 1965 and the other in 2004, were also made following a similar story line inspired by the book.
* The [[Wikipedia:Phoenix (mythology)|phoenix]] is an animal from Egyptian mythology (and those derived) that, at the end of its lifespan, burns into ashes from which another arises.
* The [[Blackbird]], a new stealth fighter craft, has been constructed by Chief Tyrol with help from the crew.
* Helo now wears a Viper patch on his flightsuit. He wasn't visibly identified as piloting one of the Vipers deployed against the Cylons, but he may have been.
* There is a wide shot when apparently ''all'' of ''Galactica's'' Vipers are deployed where it's possible to count how many they have: there are 42 Vipers visible onscreen. Oddly, the current count says that there should be no more than 34, and even with [[Joe Palladino]] (unrealistically) on parole after [[Final Cut]] and Helo in a Viper, ''Galactica'' shouldn't be able to muster more than 25 pilots.
** There are at least 7 Viper Mk. VII's visible in this shot. This agrees well with [[Scattered]].
* This is the first episode without an appearance by [[Number Six]].
* When Chief Tyrol reconciles with Cally (regarding her killing Galactica-Boomer), she reaches into a Viper and fixes something he couldn't reach, and he responds "Nice to be small, huh?". This is reminiscent of the scene at the end of the [[Miniseries]], when they have almost the exact same exchange. In that scene, they were reconciling after ''Cally'' got angry that Tyrol was having a relationship with Galactica-Boomer.
* President Roslin returns the book "[[Dark Day]]" to Commander Adama, which he gave to her back in the second episode, "[[Water]]".
* Chief Tyrol and Galactica-Boomer were planning to leave the military together and get married before the Cylon attack.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*Apollo: Nobody's expecting a miracle.
:Tyrol: Maybe that's the problem.

*''Discussing Helo's return to ''Galactica'':''
:Duck: So he's the Cylon lover.
:Starbuck: You know what? I don't care who or what he fraks. He saved my ass down there, all right?
:Duck:How could anyone fall in love with a toaster, though?
:Starbuck: Same way I hear everyone was high-fiving our Sharon right before she put two in Adama's chest. The bastards frak with your head.
:Hotdog: Yeah. Just ask the Chief.

*''Card game in the Viper pilot's lockeroom:''
:Racetrack: Been playing with these cards for so long, I know every fold.
:Starbuck: So life's a bitch. What do you want to do, cry about it?
:Racetrack: No, I just want it to end, okay? The bad food, the endless rotations, pretending that a card game is the high point of our day.
:Starbuck: It's not going to last forever, all right? Earth is out there.
:Racetrack: Right. We could all be chasing our tails over some half-assed planetarium show.
:Starbuck: And you guys can all go to hell. I'm going to go find Helo.
:Racetrack: Good idea. Maybe that Cylon whore taught him a few tricks.

''(Starbuck politely turns around, walks over to Racetrack and grabs her by the neck and slams her head into the card table).''

*''Helo is sitting in Sharon's old Raptor when the Chief walks up:''
:Helo: Hey! Look, Chief. I never intended for Sharon and I to-- You know, it just kind of evolved.
:Tyrol: Just a couple lovesick kids, huh?
:Helo: I know how she felt about you, okay? She loves you.
:Tyrol: Did she fill you in on the rest of the plan? She and I were going to muster out at the end of our service. You know, then we would get married. Maybe we would have children. I guess I'm just a big frakkin' idiot, though, huh? Probably that goddamn [[Toaster]]'s plan all along.
:Helo: Don't call her that.
:Tyrol: Sucker some moron into giving her a kid. Hey, you know, but you know what? I should probably be grateful to you. Probably be grateful. You know why? Because that freak in her belly could have been mine! ''(Helo and Tyrol fight)''

*''Lt. Gaeta is starting to lose his composure under constant pressure:''
:Gaeta: Sir, I'm running every diagnostic we've got. Checking each line of code could take days.
:Tigh: I am not interested in excuses. Fix it!
:Gaeta: (''shouting'') It's not an excuse, sir. It's a frakking fact!

*Commander Adama: Months on the run, and what do we have to show for it? Casualties. Deteriorating conditions. This crew needs a rest. It's finally hitting them, that's all. Our old lives are gone. The only thing we have to look forward to is this.

*''Tigh walks into the tool closet on the hanger deck''
:Tigh: What's this, Chief?
:Tyrol: I'm making solvent, sir, to clean machine parts.
:Tigh: Solvent my ass. I know a still when I smell it.

*''Starbuck is taking the [[Blackbird]] on its first test flight while Apollo follows:''
:Apollo: Starbuck, Starbuck, where are you? Starbuck, come in. Starbuck, do you read? Kara, are you okay?
:Starbuck: (''Starbuck turns the lights of the Blackbird on; she's actually got her ship feet away from Apollo's, facing it'') Of course you lost contact. It's a damned stealth ship, remember?

*Roslin: Oh, you're much too modest. After what we've been through, it would be very easy to give up, to lose hope. But not here. Not today. This is more than a ship, Chief. This is an act of faith. It is proof that despite all we've lost, we keep trying. And we will get through this, all of us, together. I promise.

== Official Statements ==

*In an [http://www.battlestargalactica.com/outside_docs/bg_outdoc0050.htm interview with BattlestarGalactica.com on December 28th, 2005] RDM was asked about the continuity problems noticed with the number of Vipers deployed in this episode:

: "Q: In the battle scene with the Cylons in "Flight of the Phoenix", some think they see more Vipers than pilots, there is the presence of many Mark 7 Vipers, and the Blackbird is in flight before its maiden voyage. Was this effects shot the victim of a script change or something in the editing room? Was the episode originally intended to appear after the Pegasus encounter?

: RDM: To be honest, I don't recall the exact number of Vipers in the shot or where we were in the continuity at that point. I do recall the topic coming up in various VFX and production meetings, and I think there was at least an initial rationale for the number on screen -- but it's entirely possible that we cheated a bit in Post in order to make the shot a little sexier. Sorry. It happens."

== Guest stars ==
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as Specialist [[Cally]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmonson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmonson]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Dominic Zamprogna]] as Specialist [[Jammer]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendant "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0356501/ Jen Halley] as [[Seelix]]
*[http://imdb.com/name/nm0856351/ Christian Tessier] as [[Tucker Clellan|Duck]]
*Don Thompson as [[Anthony Figurski]]

== Statistics ==


* USA [[Wikipedia:Nielsen Ratings|Nielsen Ratings]]: 1.9 household rating

{{Episode List}}

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Episode Guide (RDM)]] [[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Nankin]]

Home, Part I

2006-04-23T17:38:57Z

Nevfennas: /* Analysis */ typo

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Home_pt1_debate.jpg|300px]]
| Title=Home, Part I
| Series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| Season=[[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode=6
| Guests=
| Writer=[[David Eick]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| Production=2.06
| Rating= 2.1
| US Airdate=August 19 2005
| UK Airdate=February 14 2006
| DVD=December 20 2005 (US Season 2.0)
| Population=47,858
| Prev=[[The Farm]]
| Next=[[Home, Part II]]
}}
== Overview ==

:''The refugee fleet splits into two factions: one led by [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] and [[Tom Zarek|Zarek]], the other by [[William Adama]]. However, Apollo is less than enthusiastic to be working with Zarek.''

== Summary ==

=== On Galactica ===

* The events of this episode appear to begin immediately after [[The Farm]]. Adama appoints Birch as CAG at the end of that day or the morning of the next, and his foibles appear to consume at least a day, possibly two.
* With [[Lee Adama]] [[Wikipedia:AWOL|AWOL]], [[William Adama|Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] are going over possible new [[CAG]]s. As Tigh reluctantly points out, none of them are Apollo.
* Unbeknownst to Tigh, Adama has already made his choice: Lieutenant [[George Birch]], now promoted to Captain. Adama had only called in Tigh, hoping that he and his XO were "on the same page". During the whole discussion, he is crushing walnuts in his hands. During his speech to Birch, he states that everyone on the Galactica is family, including his sons.
* Meanwhile, Adama has another problem; the Press. He attempts to communicate to them about the segmentation in the Fleet. The attempt backfires, with questions from the press remaining unanswered.
* In the compartment over, [[Gaius Baltar]] is looking into the corridor from the hatch's threshold. Now having the knowledge that there are eight [[Cylon agent]]s onboard, he is becoming increasing paranoid. Six attempts to soothe him, claiming that he does not share the other human's fate. She also goes on to say that humans are masters of self-destruction.
* As the new CAG, Birch is enthusiastic and attempts to grow into his new role. One of his new duties is to lead combat exercises. In an asteroid field, [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] are to practice attack runs on an asteroid.
** Hot Dog fires a missile at the primary target, only to wing it (and earn a scolding from Birch, who states that he knows Hot Dog can do better).
** A communications glitch during the target exercise causes both Hot Dog and Kat to think they are each cleared for their attack runs. Birch fails to resolve the confusion, and a tragedy almost occurs: Hot Dog releases another missile while Kat begins strafing the primary asteroid target. The missile causes the asteroid to splinter, the debris from it almost killing Kat. While her Viper is winged, Kat manages to make it out alive.
* Another incident occurs, when two vessels (a fuel tanker and a civilian ship) are attempting a straight-forward refuel op. Birch has been supervising the op, which has been running for four hours. Tigh firmly notes that while Birch is Adama's man, he is green and inexperienced.
** Adama orders the op be aborted, but not in time to prevent the ships from colliding. Fortunately, the resultant damage is non-critical.
* Adama talks to Dee in his cabin. Dee speaks her mind, saying that everyone is separated; parents and children, friends. After the emotional discussion, Adama attempts to dismiss her. She refuses, saying that it is time to heal the wounds.
* As Adama is walking through Galactica's empty corridors, he reflects. After his reflection, he returns to [[CIC]], where he orders that the intel on [[Kobol]] be brought to his office. "It's time to put the Fleet back together," he states, matter-of-factly.

=== On [[Astral Queen]] ===

* Members of the [[Quorum of Twelve]], Roslin, and [[Lee Adama]] are arguing over what their next move should be. Roslin attempts to persuade everyone to await [[Kara Thrace]]'s (Starbuck's) return with the [[Arrow of Apollo]]; she is steadfast in her belief that the Arrow will open the [[Tomb of Athena]], which holds the way to [[Earth]].
* An unidentified ship is approaching Roslin's fleet. Zarek and Meier are preparing to have a nearby ship with missile batteries, the ''[[Adriatic]]'', attack the unidentified ship. President Roslin joins the discussion and argues that they should wait; Meier argues that the unidentified vessel should be destroyed before leaving the weapons range of the nearby ship.
* Just in time, Starbuck's voice is heard over the wireless hailing them from the unidentified ship. Starbuck's appropriated troop carrier is permitted to dock.
* Apollo reunites with Starbuck, impulsively kissing her, to her surprise. Apollo is shocked to discover that Starbuck and Helo have brought [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica-Valerii]] back with them. He goes berserk, grabbing Valerii and shoving his pistol in her face. [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] approaches from behind, placing a gun against Apollo's head.
* Roslin defuses the situation, with both men putting down their arms. She then turns about and orders "put that thing [Valerii] out the airlock!" to be executed. Valerii is dragged off, but claims to know how to find the Tomb of Athena. Roslin then spares the "young woman"'s life, if only temporarily.
* Apollo spends some time talking to Starbuck, trying to convince her to open up to him and assuring her he will be there for her. During this discussion he lets it slip that he loves her. Although he later insists he didn't say it, Starbuck doesn't let him get away with taking it back.
* Zarek and Meier have a private discussion: Zarek is looking to command the new fleet to freedom that he has "promised". Meier discusses the fact that they need Roslin, but find that Adama may be a problem. During this conversation, Meier brings up the point that Elosa made: according to the scriptures, there is a price for landing on Kobol, and it is paid in blood. It is insinuated that Lee Adama should be the one to pay the so-called price.

=== On [[Kobol]] ===

* A contingent, including Meier, Zarek, Valerii, Agathon, Thrace, [[Elosha]], Roslin and Apollo, land on Kobol. Elosha (reading from the scriptures) and Valerii (reciting scripture from memory) state that the path to Athena's Tomb is along a stone ridge.
[[Image:Home_pt1_mourning.jpg|thumb|300px|Roslin, et al. mourn the loss of Elosha on Kobol. (C. SciFi Channel)]]
* While following the ridge, Elosha comments that it should be littered with gravestones. She finds one; Valerii senses danger, but it is already too late. Elosha steps on a trigger which releases two "[[Wikipedia:Bouncing_betty|Bouncing Betty]]"-type antipersonnel mines; the shrapnel from the exploding mines strikes her and alerts the [[Cylon Centurion]]s to their presence. Entrenched in a high position, the trio of Centurions attempts to wipe out the party -- Helo takes out one, Thrace and Lee Adama take out another, and Valerii runs off, only to use a grenade launcher to take out the remaining Centurion.
* Elosha is found dead and Roslin tearfully retrieves the blood-covered book of scriptures from her.

== Questions ==
* As Lieutenant Valerii demonstrates, the Cylons have excellent knowledge of the Colonials' scriptures, sufficient to anticipate mining the path alongside the gravestones, for example. What other nasty surprises are in store for the party on Kobol? Will the Tomb of Athena which they expect to find even be the "real" tomb?
* Agathon is seemingly aghast at the treatment of Sharon upon boarding the ''Astral Queen''. What did [[Karl Agathon]] expect when a glorified poster child for humanity's genocidists falls into the hands of the survivors? Did he hope to hide that she was a Cylon -- or hope that they would be merciful?
* Will Agathon be put up for charges for his attempted assault of Lee Adama? (Answer: Not this time, but his protective instincts will get him into trouble [[Pegasus (episode)|later]].)
* What "fate" is Baltar's internal Six referring to? How will Baltar be "spared"?
* Given the press' reactionary ferocity regarding the martial law edict, has the press hounded Baltar regarding martial law and his now-powerless position as Vice President of the Colonies? If not, why?
* Will Thrace eventually heal from her emotional trauma experienced in the Cylon breeding farm? How will she deal with it, particularly as a previous victim of child abuse?
* How will Thrace and Lee Adama pursue their relationship, now that Adama has admitted his feelings for her?
* What is the exact nature of Dee and William Adama's relationship? It seems more personal on an emotional level for both of them; leaving this question to be asked: What has Dee done to deserve this level of Adama's trust?
* When will a rescue mission be mounted for the Caprican survivors?
* How will Zarek and Meier deal with dispatching Lee Adama?
* With Elosha dead, will there be another spiritual advisor filling that vacuum?
** Since she died on Kobol, is it true that her soul is also gone? (Providing that the "soul" exists in the Battlestar universe, of course.)
*Why does Tigh suggest [[Perry]] as a choice for new CAG? He was killed in the Battle for the Tylium Asteroid in "[[The Hand of God]]", and was a nugget besides. Is there another pilot of the same name?

== Analysis ==
*The [[Arrow of Apollo]] looks rather ornate for a functional arrow. It may instead have once served as a symbol of religious or temporal authority, not unlike the [[Wikipedia:Crown Jewels of the United Kingdom|Britsh Crown Jewels]].
*The 9,500 Gemenons in the Roslin faction alone represent 20% of the fleet population. If the populations of the 12 colonies were represented equally throughout the fleet, they should each represent approximately 8.3% of the total population. As a result of this figure, we must make two assumptions:
**Through accident or design, the Gemenon population of the fleet is substantially larger than the other colonies.
**All, or nearly all of the Gemenon population has allied with the Roslin faction. This makes sense, given what Cpl. [[Venner]] has said about Gemenon fundamentalism, and Roslin's use of the "religion card".
*Of the remaining 8,500 souls belonging to the Roslin faction, 6,250 are from Caprica. If we assume that the non-Gemenon population of the Roslin faction represents an even cross-section of the fleet's population, Caprica represents 74% of the remaining 11 colonies.
**Assuming all the Gemenon population left with the Roslin faction, and the Caprican portion of the Roslin faction is a representative sample, the fleet's demographics break down as follows:
***60% from Caprica
***19.9% from Gemenon
***20.1% from elsewhere
***This is not completely implausible, since both ''[[Galactica]]'' and ''[[Colonial One]]'' were likely serving the needs of the closest colony, Caprica, when the [[Cylon Attack]] occurred. Also the Commander of the [[Botanical Cruiser]] destroyed in the [[Miniseries]] mentioned that most of his passengers were from [[Picon]] and Gemenon. This could indicate that the point where Roslin collected the civillian vessels was near the route Caprica - Gemenon, explaining the large size of the Gemenon population. On the other hand, it would make the [[Quorum of Twelve]] a rather poor representational system.
***Alternatively, there may be some factor which earned the allegiance of the a greater-than-average portion of the Caprica population. Roslin is presumably a native of Caprica herself.
*A frequent question about "[[Resistance]]" was why didn't Baltar ask Galactica-Boomer the names of the 8 Cylons left in the fleet, and it was suspected of being a plot hole. Now here, Baltar himself is shown regretting not asking her the identiy of the other 8 Cylons. Perhaps he only had enough time to ask her one question and still save Chief Tyrol's life, and he was planning on asking her more if "that idiot hadn't killed her".
*Birch is flying a Viper Mark VII in this episode, which was Apollo's preference prior to the damage he sustained during an atmospheric [[SAR]] in "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]". He, and his entire squadron, used Mark II Vipers in the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] (21 days later), although at least six Mark VIIs were deployed in "[[Scattered]]" (36 days later). Perhaps it just took the better part of three weeks to rehabilitate the Mark VIIs.
*Another hard to explain name appears in this episode. The name of the ship ''[[Adriatic]]'', obviously derived from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriatic_Sea Adriatic Sea], is an arm of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea Mediterranean Sea] that separates Italy from the Balkan peninsula on [[Earth]].

== Notes ==
*This episode apparently begins immediately after the events of [[The Farm]].
*Population count is 47,858, a gain of one since [[The Farm]], probably to account for the return of Helo. This means that Starbuck was never written off as "presumed dead", and if Sharon was ever included in the count before her outing as a Cylon, her copy isn't being added back after her defection.
**With the death of Elosha and an unnamed escort on Kobol, the count at the episode end is now 47,856.
*The 24 ships which joined the [[Laura Roslin faction]], while comprising somewhat less than a third of the fleet ([[The Farm]]), carried 18,000 survivors - over a third of the fleet's population.
**Of these, 9,500 (more than half) were from Gemenon, and 6,250 were from Caprica.
*Of the 24 ships, Saul Tigh gives a breakdown as follows:
**12 transports
**7 freighters
**3 construction platforms
**1 private cruiser
**1 mining ship - the [[Monarch]].
*One of the Roslin faction vessels, the [[Adriatic]], is equipped with ship-to-ship missiles.
*The [[Striker]] is a ship that remains with the [[Galactica]], damaged in a collision with an unnamed tanker.
*[[Mueller (pilot)|Mueller]], one of Galactica's Viper pilots, completed a tour as a squadron XO, but Commander Adama views him as a malcontent.
*Lee Adama had blonde hair as a child, like his [[Caroline Adama|mother]].
*Baltar does not know the identities of the Cylons hidden in the fleet, and regrets not asking Sharon before Cally shot her.
*Roslin misidentifies Helo as a Raptor pilot. In the miniseries, he was Galactica-Boomer's [[ECO]].
*According to Caprica Boomer, she is not in constant, involuntary contact with whatever network the Cylons have access to. She claims: "I'm not wired in. It doesn't work like that."
*This is the first of a two-part episode. This episode is officially titled "Home, Part I."
*Apollo and Starbuck finally kiss in this episode, albeit briefly.
*When Commander Adama is crushing walnuts in his hand, it is reminiscent of the nervous habit of Captain Queeg in the classic film [http://www.filmsite.org/cain.html ''The '''Caine''' Mutiny'']. Captain Queeg would roll a pair of ball bearings in one hand during times of stress. Commander Adama's comments about loyalty and a ship being "like a family" also echo Captain Queeg.
*The Cylons have continued to operate troops on the surface of Kobol, but without orbital support from a basestar, or sufficient numbers to be more than a nuisance to the Colonials.
*Roslin's fleet may have held onto the Heavy Raider that Starbuck, Helo, and Sharon returned in. If they did that makes for possibly the third captured Cylon spacecraft, after Starbuck's captured Raider in "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]" and the Heavy Raider that crashed into ''Galactica's'' starboard pod in "[[Scattered]]."
*This is the first of two (thus far) episodes without an appearance by Chief Galen Tyrol, the second being [[Black Market]].
*The "R&D TV Animation" skit consists of David Eick telling Ron Moore to "jot this down" and Moore stabbing the word "THIS" into Eick's forehead with a pen.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
:Baltar: There was an off-road bridge, over the Euclid river. I used to go there, when I was a boy. Watch the fish try and swim upstream. They were mesmerizing. I envied them, unaware as they were of the wider complexities, challenges of life.
:Six: You're beginning to see human beings as we see them.
:Baltar: What I am beginning to see are Cylon faces, everywhere I look. Sharon told me there were eight Cylons left in the fleet. Why didn't I ask her who they were? If that idiot hadn't shot her- and why is that when things go wrong, they go wrong so well?
:Six: Gaius. You get yourself far, far too worked up about these things. They do have it easy, don't they?
:Baltar: They? Why are you talking to me like I'm not one of them?
:Six: In some ways you never were. You have a path. You will be spared their fate. For once, Gaius, you can stop manipulating the world and let destiny take its course. If there's one thing we know about human beings with certainty, they are masters of self destruction.

:'''Lee Adama (to Starbuck):''' You've missed a few catastrophes while you were away.

== Official Statements ==

== Guest stars ==
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar] as [[Meier]]
*[[Lorena Gale]] as [[Elosha]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Patricia+Idlette Particia Idlette] as [[Sarah Porter]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0829121 Malcolm Stewart (I)] as [[Marshall Bagot]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kate" Katraine]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1534707/ Ben Ayres] as Lt. [[George Birch|George "Catman" Birch]]
*Linnea Sharples as Lt. [[Emmitt Jones|Emmitt "Sweetness" Jones]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Christina+Schild Christina Schild] as [[Playa Palacios]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Biski+Gugushe Biski Gugushe] as [[Sekou Hamilton]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Raahul+Singh Raahul Singh] as Kimmit

== Statistics ==

* USA [[Wikipedia:Nielsen Ratings|Nielsen Ratings]]: 2.1 household rating

{{Template:Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]

Home, Part I

2006-04-23T17:37:32Z

Nevfennas: /* Analysis */ added info

{{Episode Data|
Image = [[Image:Home_pt1_debate.jpg|300px]]
| Title=Home, Part I
| Series=[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the Re-imagined Series]]
| Season=[[Season 2 (2005-06)|2]]
| Episode=6
| Guests=
| Writer=[[David Eick]]
| Story=
| Director=[[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| Production=2.06
| Rating= 2.1
| US Airdate=August 19 2005
| UK Airdate=February 14 2006
| DVD=December 20 2005 (US Season 2.0)
| Population=47,858
| Prev=[[The Farm]]
| Next=[[Home, Part II]]
}}
== Overview ==

:''The refugee fleet splits into two factions: one led by [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] and [[Tom Zarek|Zarek]], the other by [[William Adama]]. However, Apollo is less than enthusiastic to be working with Zarek.''

== Summary ==

=== On Galactica ===

* The events of this episode appear to begin immediately after [[The Farm]]. Adama appoints Birch as CAG at the end of that day or the morning of the next, and his foibles appear to consume at least a day, possibly two.
* With [[Lee Adama]] [[Wikipedia:AWOL|AWOL]], [[William Adama|Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] are going over possible new [[CAG]]s. As Tigh reluctantly points out, none of them are Apollo.
* Unbeknownst to Tigh, Adama has already made his choice: Lieutenant [[George Birch]], now promoted to Captain. Adama had only called in Tigh, hoping that he and his XO were "on the same page". During the whole discussion, he is crushing walnuts in his hands. During his speech to Birch, he states that everyone on the Galactica is family, including his sons.
* Meanwhile, Adama has another problem; the Press. He attempts to communicate to them about the segmentation in the Fleet. The attempt backfires, with questions from the press remaining unanswered.
* In the compartment over, [[Gaius Baltar]] is looking into the corridor from the hatch's threshold. Now having the knowledge that there are eight [[Cylon agent]]s onboard, he is becoming increasing paranoid. Six attempts to soothe him, claiming that he does not share the other human's fate. She also goes on to say that humans are masters of self-destruction.
* As the new CAG, Birch is enthusiastic and attempts to grow into his new role. One of his new duties is to lead combat exercises. In an asteroid field, [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] are to practice attack runs on an asteroid.
** Hot Dog fires a missile at the primary target, only to wing it (and earn a scolding from Birch, who states that he knows Hot Dog can do better).
** A communications glitch during the target exercise causes both Hot Dog and Kat to think they are each cleared for their attack runs. Birch fails to resolve the confusion, and a tragedy almost occurs: Hot Dog releases another missile while Kat begins strafing the primary asteroid target. The missile causes the asteroid to splinter, the debris from it almost killing Kat. While her Viper is winged, Kat manages to make it out alive.
* Another incident occurs, when two vessels (a fuel tanker and a civilian ship) are attempting a straight-forward refuel op. Birch has been supervising the op, which has been running for four hours. Tigh firmly notes that while Birch is Adama's man, he is green and inexperienced.
** Adama orders the op be aborted, but not in time to prevent the ships from colliding. Fortunately, the resultant damage is non-critical.
* Adama talks to Dee in his cabin. Dee speaks her mind, saying that everyone is separated; parents and children, friends. After the emotional discussion, Adama attempts to dismiss her. She refuses, saying that it is time to heal the wounds.
* As Adama is walking through Galactica's empty corridors, he reflects. After his reflection, he returns to [[CIC]], where he orders that the intel on [[Kobol]] be brought to his office. "It's time to put the Fleet back together," he states, matter-of-factly.

=== On [[Astral Queen]] ===

* Members of the [[Quorum of Twelve]], Roslin, and [[Lee Adama]] are arguing over what their next move should be. Roslin attempts to persuade everyone to await [[Kara Thrace]]'s (Starbuck's) return with the [[Arrow of Apollo]]; she is steadfast in her belief that the Arrow will open the [[Tomb of Athena]], which holds the way to [[Earth]].
* An unidentified ship is approaching Roslin's fleet. Zarek and Meier are preparing to have a nearby ship with missile batteries, the ''[[Adriatic]]'', attack the unidentified ship. President Roslin joins the discussion and argues that they should wait; Meier argues that the unidentified vessel should be destroyed before leaving the weapons range of the nearby ship.
* Just in time, Starbuck's voice is heard over the wireless hailing them from the unidentified ship. Starbuck's appropriated troop carrier is permitted to dock.
* Apollo reunites with Starbuck, impulsively kissing her, to her surprise. Apollo is shocked to discover that Starbuck and Helo have brought [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Caprica-Valerii]] back with them. He goes berserk, grabbing Valerii and shoving his pistol in her face. [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] approaches from behind, placing a gun against Apollo's head.
* Roslin defuses the situation, with both men putting down their arms. She then turns about and orders "put that thing [Valerii] out the airlock!" to be executed. Valerii is dragged off, but claims to know how to find the Tomb of Athena. Roslin then spares the "young woman"'s life, if only temporarily.
* Apollo spends some time talking to Starbuck, trying to convince her to open up to him and assuring her he will be there for her. During this discussion he lets it slip that he loves her. Although he later insists he didn't say it, Starbuck doesn't let him get away with taking it back.
* Zarek and Meier have a private discussion: Zarek is looking to command the new fleet to freedom that he has "promised". Meier discusses the fact that they need Roslin, but find that Adama may be a problem. During this conversation, Meier brings up the point that Elosa made: according to the scriptures, there is a price for landing on Kobol, and it is paid in blood. It is insinuated that Lee Adama should be the one to pay the so-called price.

=== On [[Kobol]] ===

* A contingent, including Meier, Zarek, Valerii, Agathon, Thrace, [[Elosha]], Roslin and Apollo, land on Kobol. Elosha (reading from the scriptures) and Valerii (reciting scripture from memory) state that the path to Athena's Tomb is along a stone ridge.
[[Image:Home_pt1_mourning.jpg|thumb|300px|Roslin, et al. mourn the loss of Elosha on Kobol. (C. SciFi Channel)]]
* While following the ridge, Elosha comments that it should be littered with gravestones. She finds one; Valerii senses danger, but it is already too late. Elosha steps on a trigger which releases two "[[Wikipedia:Bouncing_betty|Bouncing Betty]]"-type antipersonnel mines; the shrapnel from the exploding mines strikes her and alerts the [[Cylon Centurion]]s to their presence. Entrenched in a high position, the trio of Centurions attempts to wipe out the party -- Helo takes out one, Thrace and Lee Adama take out another, and Valerii runs off, only to use a grenade launcher to take out the remaining Centurion.
* Elosha is found dead and Roslin tearfully retrieves the blood-covered book of scriptures from her.

== Questions ==
* As Lieutenant Valerii demonstrates, the Cylons have excellent knowledge of the Colonials' scriptures, sufficient to anticipate mining the path alongside the gravestones, for example. What other nasty surprises are in store for the party on Kobol? Will the Tomb of Athena which they expect to find even be the "real" tomb?
* Agathon is seemingly aghast at the treatment of Sharon upon boarding the ''Astral Queen''. What did [[Karl Agathon]] expect when a glorified poster child for humanity's genocidists falls into the hands of the survivors? Did he hope to hide that she was a Cylon -- or hope that they would be merciful?
* Will Agathon be put up for charges for his attempted assault of Lee Adama? (Answer: Not this time, but his protective instincts will get him into trouble [[Pegasus (episode)|later]].)
* What "fate" is Baltar's internal Six referring to? How will Baltar be "spared"?
* Given the press' reactionary ferocity regarding the martial law edict, has the press hounded Baltar regarding martial law and his now-powerless position as Vice President of the Colonies? If not, why?
* Will Thrace eventually heal from her emotional trauma experienced in the Cylon breeding farm? How will she deal with it, particularly as a previous victim of child abuse?
* How will Thrace and Lee Adama pursue their relationship, now that Adama has admitted his feelings for her?
* What is the exact nature of Dee and William Adama's relationship? It seems more personal on an emotional level for both of them; leaving this question to be asked: What has Dee done to deserve this level of Adama's trust?
* When will a rescue mission be mounted for the Caprican survivors?
* How will Zarek and Meier deal with dispatching Lee Adama?
* With Elosha dead, will there be another spiritual advisor filling that vacuum?
** Since she died on Kobol, is it true that her soul is also gone? (Providing that the "soul" exists in the Battlestar universe, of course.)
*Why does Tigh suggest [[Perry]] as a choice for new CAG? He was killed in the Battle for the Tylium Asteroid in "[[The Hand of God]]", and was a nugget besides. Is there another pilot of the same name?

== Analysis ==
*The [[Arrow of Apollo]] looks rather ornate for a functional arrow. It may instead have once served as a symbol of religious or temporal authority, not unlike the [[Wikipedia:Crown Jewels of the United Kingdom|Britsh Crown Jewels]].
*The 9,500 Gemenons in the Roslin faction alone represent 20% of the fleet population. If the populations of the 12 colonies were represented equally throughout the fleet, they should each represent approximately 8.3% of the total population. As a result of this figure, we must make two assumptions:
**Through accident or design, the Gemenon population of the fleet is substantially larger than the other colonies.
**All, or nearly all of the Gemenon population has allied with the Roslin faction. This makes sense, given what Cpl. [[Venner]] has said about Gemenon fundamentalism, and Roslin's use of the "religion card".
*Of the remaining 8,500 souls belonging to the Roslin faction, 6,250 are from Caprica. If we assume that the non-Gemenon population of the Roslin faction represents an even cross-section of the fleet's population, Caprica represents 74% of the remaining 11 colonies.
**Assuming all the Gemenon population left with the Roslin faction, and the Caprican portion of the Roslin faction is a representative sample, the fleet's demographics break down as follows:
***60% from Caprica
***19.9% from Gemenon
***20.1% from elsewhere
***This is not completely implausible, since both ''[[Galactica]]'' and ''[[Colonial One]]'' were likely serving the needs of the closest colony, Caprica, when the [[Cylon Attack]] occurred. Also the Commander of the [[Botanical Cruiser]] destroyed in the [[Miniseries]] mentioned that most of his passengers were from [[Picon]] and Gemenon. This could indicate that the point were Roslin collected the civillian vessels was near the route Caprica - Gemenon, explaining the large size of the Gemenon population. On the other hand, it would make the [[Quorum of Twelve]] a rather poor representational system.
***Alternatively, there may be some factor which earned the allegiance of the a greater-than-average portion of the Caprica population. Roslin is presumably a native of Caprica herself.
*A frequent question about "[[Resistance]]" was why didn't Baltar ask Galactica-Boomer the names of the 8 Cylons left in the fleet, and it was suspected of being a plot hole. Now here, Baltar himself is shown regretting not asking her the identiy of the other 8 Cylons. Perhaps he only had enough time to ask her one question and still save Chief Tyrol's life, and he was planning on asking her more if "that idiot hadn't killed her".
*Birch is flying a Viper Mark VII in this episode, which was Apollo's preference prior to the damage he sustained during an atmospheric [[SAR]] in "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]". He, and his entire squadron, used Mark II Vipers in the [[Battle for the Tylium Asteroid]] (21 days later), although at least six Mark VIIs were deployed in "[[Scattered]]" (36 days later). Perhaps it just took the better part of three weeks to rehabilitate the Mark VIIs.
*Another hard to explain name appears in this episode. The name of the ship ''[[Adriatic]]'', obviously derived from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriatic_Sea Adriatic Sea], is an arm of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea Mediterranean Sea] that separates Italy from the Balkan peninsula on [[Earth]].

== Notes ==
*This episode apparently begins immediately after the events of [[The Farm]].
*Population count is 47,858, a gain of one since [[The Farm]], probably to account for the return of Helo. This means that Starbuck was never written off as "presumed dead", and if Sharon was ever included in the count before her outing as a Cylon, her copy isn't being added back after her defection.
**With the death of Elosha and an unnamed escort on Kobol, the count at the episode end is now 47,856.
*The 24 ships which joined the [[Laura Roslin faction]], while comprising somewhat less than a third of the fleet ([[The Farm]]), carried 18,000 survivors - over a third of the fleet's population.
**Of these, 9,500 (more than half) were from Gemenon, and 6,250 were from Caprica.
*Of the 24 ships, Saul Tigh gives a breakdown as follows:
**12 transports
**7 freighters
**3 construction platforms
**1 private cruiser
**1 mining ship - the [[Monarch]].
*One of the Roslin faction vessels, the [[Adriatic]], is equipped with ship-to-ship missiles.
*The [[Striker]] is a ship that remains with the [[Galactica]], damaged in a collision with an unnamed tanker.
*[[Mueller (pilot)|Mueller]], one of Galactica's Viper pilots, completed a tour as a squadron XO, but Commander Adama views him as a malcontent.
*Lee Adama had blonde hair as a child, like his [[Caroline Adama|mother]].
*Baltar does not know the identities of the Cylons hidden in the fleet, and regrets not asking Sharon before Cally shot her.
*Roslin misidentifies Helo as a Raptor pilot. In the miniseries, he was Galactica-Boomer's [[ECO]].
*According to Caprica Boomer, she is not in constant, involuntary contact with whatever network the Cylons have access to. She claims: "I'm not wired in. It doesn't work like that."
*This is the first of a two-part episode. This episode is officially titled "Home, Part I."
*Apollo and Starbuck finally kiss in this episode, albeit briefly.
*When Commander Adama is crushing walnuts in his hand, it is reminiscent of the nervous habit of Captain Queeg in the classic film [http://www.filmsite.org/cain.html ''The '''Caine''' Mutiny'']. Captain Queeg would roll a pair of ball bearings in one hand during times of stress. Commander Adama's comments about loyalty and a ship being "like a family" also echo Captain Queeg.
*The Cylons have continued to operate troops on the surface of Kobol, but without orbital support from a basestar, or sufficient numbers to be more than a nuisance to the Colonials.
*Roslin's fleet may have held onto the Heavy Raider that Starbuck, Helo, and Sharon returned in. If they did that makes for possibly the third captured Cylon spacecraft, after Starbuck's captured Raider in "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]" and the Heavy Raider that crashed into ''Galactica's'' starboard pod in "[[Scattered]]."
*This is the first of two (thus far) episodes without an appearance by Chief Galen Tyrol, the second being [[Black Market]].
*The "R&D TV Animation" skit consists of David Eick telling Ron Moore to "jot this down" and Moore stabbing the word "THIS" into Eick's forehead with a pen.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
:Baltar: There was an off-road bridge, over the Euclid river. I used to go there, when I was a boy. Watch the fish try and swim upstream. They were mesmerizing. I envied them, unaware as they were of the wider complexities, challenges of life.
:Six: You're beginning to see human beings as we see them.
:Baltar: What I am beginning to see are Cylon faces, everywhere I look. Sharon told me there were eight Cylons left in the fleet. Why didn't I ask her who they were? If that idiot hadn't shot her- and why is that when things go wrong, they go wrong so well?
:Six: Gaius. You get yourself far, far too worked up about these things. They do have it easy, don't they?
:Baltar: They? Why are you talking to me like I'm not one of them?
:Six: In some ways you never were. You have a path. You will be spared their fate. For once, Gaius, you can stop manipulating the world and let destiny take its course. If there's one thing we know about human beings with certainty, they are masters of self destruction.

:'''Lee Adama (to Starbuck):''' You've missed a few catastrophes while you were away.

== Official Statements ==

== Guest stars ==
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar] as [[Meier]]
*[[Lorena Gale]] as [[Elosha]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Patricia+Idlette Particia Idlette] as [[Sarah Porter]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0829121 Malcolm Stewart (I)] as [[Marshall Bagot]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kate" Katraine]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]]
*[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1534707/ Ben Ayres] as Lt. [[George Birch|George "Catman" Birch]]
*Linnea Sharples as Lt. [[Emmitt Jones|Emmitt "Sweetness" Jones]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Christina+Schild Christina Schild] as [[Playa Palacios]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Biski+Gugushe Biski Gugushe] as [[Sekou Hamilton]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Raahul+Singh Raahul Singh] as Kimmit

== Statistics ==

* USA [[Wikipedia:Nielsen Ratings|Nielsen Ratings]]: 2.1 household rating

{{Template:Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)]]
[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]