Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Caprica City/Archive 1

2010-03-14T20:26:02Z

Neakal:

== Nuclear attack ==

Can it be safe to assume that Cap City was attacked by a [[Wikipedia: Neutron bomb|neutron bomb]] instead of conventional nukes? Granted, the "landlord bomb" (neutron bombs kill people but don't destroy buildings) is largely a myth, but there is enough of a truth to it if they are used tactically. I'm assuming that the Cylons would have the know-how to use such weapons in the optimal manner.--[[User:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]] 01:11, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:It's likely, and maybe even worth speculating about in-text (although I'd prefer that to be on [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] than here), but not okay to state as a definitive fact. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:22, 20 January 2006 (EST)

::Nuclear weapons on the show appear to use ordinary Plutonium, and are not neutron bombs. And we see shock waves moving through the city briefly. What may confuse you is that we see Helo in cities that aren't destroyed: the Cylons destroyed most cities, such as Caprica City (the capital), but they ''intentionally spared'' a few cities like Delphi. Our educated guess is that they were spared so the Cylons could use them as military ground bases. But most of the cities on the planet have been destroyed. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13:25, 20 January 2006 (EST)

In the mini series Adama states "thirty minutes ago, a thermonuclear warhead in the 50 MEGATON range detonated over Caprica City" this article states 50 KILOTONES, unless someone corrects me i'm going to change it - [[user:lordmutt|lordmutt]]

Changed, just popped in the DVD adama definitely says megaton - [[user:lordmutt|lordmutt]]

==Geography of Caprica==
Okay, let's break this down. Helo and G-Sharon first set down at most a few hours outside of Caprica, since Baltar was able to make it to their Raptor on foot. Helo then runs for about six days before meeting C-Sharon. They can't have spent the 4 days between "33" and "Water" traveling far, since Sharon's purported raptor is still within binocular range. Two days later, in "Bastille Day", they arrive at the deserted city.

That puts Unnamed City #1 no more than about 8 walking days from Caprica City.

They stay there until "Litmus", and then hit the road again in "Six degrees of separation", passing a countryside bridge. This time they're running with substantially greater urgency. In "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down", they find themselves in the sewer system of a second unnamed city.

That puts Unnamed City #2 no more than about 11 running days from City #1.

8 Days later, they pass through another rural area in "The Hand of God" while they overnight in a barn. By now, Delphi is "eight or ten" days off.

In "Colonial Day", 11 days later, they make it to the outskirts of Delphi. Two days after that, they make it down to the spaceport. Within another day or two, they arrive at the museum.

Thus:

Caprica City <--8 days--> Unnamed City #1 <--11 days--> Unnamed City #2 <--8 days--> Unnamed rural area <--13 days--> Delphi Spaceport

Does anyone have any notion as to how much distance a fit man of Helo's build could cover in a single day? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:51, 19 February 2006 (EST)

:That's a pretty interesting/tricky [http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/ question]. Lots of variables. Under ideal conditions, a fit man could probably travel 50 miles in a single day pretty easily. Flat, smooth roads, plenty of water and food/energy would make 5mph for about 10 hours possible. I'm betting we're looking at less than ideal conditions for Helo though. Since this is an infantry situation, he'd probably want to avoid the roads ("linear danger areas", where enemies might approach quickly with little notice). Taking it offroad would considerably slow him down, most likely, especially if he is not familiar with the area. Also, we're not just talking about a single day, since whatever pace he is traveling must be spread out over almost a week. Also, considering that he's "behind enemy lines", his movement would likely be slowed by having to be cautious about being spotted, using/identifying cover, etc. And that's all assuming that he's got food/water on hand and doesn't need to spend time foraging for such things. Taking that all into account I'd think 10-15 miles a day would be a pretty admirable pace. Speaking from experience, I ended up running a marathon as a fit person who really hadn't done the proper training. I completed it, but could hardly walk straight (due to soreness, etc) for the next few days. You have piqued mine (and my wife's) curiousity on this topic, and we discussed the possibility of doing an experiment on this topic sometime. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 22:58, 19 February 2006 (EST)

::My curiosity is piqued, too. Worthy to add to the [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]] article, perhaps? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:12, 20 February 2006 (EST)

:::I've been wanting to work on a "Geography of Caprica" article for a while, but haven't been able to get around to it. There might be enough material here to re-create the old Caprica (RDM) article with a blurb-and-link on The Twelve Colonies (RDM). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:30, 20 February 2006 (EST)

:::: I've spent some time in my life backpacking. On one trip, we had a guy who, no kidding, counted his steps every day. ''While'' having conversations with us all and helping navigate, etc. No idea how he did it. Anyway, about half way through our ten-day trip, we figured out based on his counting, our total distances for each sayt, etc. that we were averaging roughly 3mph. That may seem slow, but we weren't trying to be fast, really, and were interested in looking at pretty scenery and stuff. This also included breaks for lunch and resting, so actual speed at a given moment was likely a bit higher. This was in the South Country of Philmont (which is in northern New Mexico), so not exactly flat and there were trails, but not roads much.

:::: Now, all of us were Boy Scouts, but none of us were military personell and we had big packs to slow us down that Helo didn't, but then... Not having a pack means he had to forage some. Anyway... I thought that might be some helpful information for someone who's working things out. --[[User:Day|Day]] 11:57, 20 February 2006 (EST)

== More to Add ==

I have a good-size compilation of facts relating to Caprica City that I could put in the article. I know that part of editing is being bold, but due to the number of facts I have I believe it would be best to have this request approved. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:01, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks for your caution. Why not post them here, along with your source? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:12, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::No problem. I'll get started right now. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:18, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::This looks generally good. Was the "riverwalk" mentioned in dialog or an on-screen caption? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:53, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::The area where Number Six murders the infant was called "Riverwalk Market" in an on-screen caption in the Miniseries.--[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 14:57, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::Werid. I can't remember that... is there a screenshot? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:59, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::I'll try. Also the area where the conversation between Baltar and Six occurs the day of the attack is called "Government Center Plaza" in the novelization. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:03, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::Novelization follows a different continuity though. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:06, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::::Won't put it in the article. Just thought it was interesting. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:10, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::::Can't we note what the novelization says with a caveat that it's non-canon? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:13, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::::::Sure. I can put it down right now in the article and put a disclaimer after it. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 15:26, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::::::::::Actually Roslin mentions in again in LDBY II. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:44, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::::::::::In that case, that title really does deserve to be in the article. I'll add LDBY II as a citation. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 09:01, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

== Looking For Some Trivia ==

You know that snaking elevated compelx I mentioned in the Riverwalk section of the article? I've seen it used on ''Stargate-SG1'' for the Tolon homeworld and in ''Agent Cody Banks'' as the CIA's Seattle headquarters, so it is a popular film location. Does anyone know where it is in the real world and its name? I'd like to use that info for this article's trivia section. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 09:09, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

:All fine US tv series are made in Vancouver; BSG, the Stargates, X-Files, Dark Angel, the L Word: if you check IMDB many of the secondary and minor cast members have appeared on each of these shows in the past. They tend to just be sets in and around Vancouver. The "Riverwalk" of which you query is in fact part of the campus of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Fraser_University Simon Fraser University], specifically check out this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sfu-academic-quadrangle-pond.jpg photo here] --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 09:30, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks a lot for that. I'll have a trivia section up momentarily. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 09:44, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

==Good "New" Images==
Hey, I was looking at this website of one of the guys who rendered Caprica City in the mini. In his gallery he shows, among the shots we saw, several other shots which we didn't see and were great (he also has a cleaner version of some). They are good shots, but I wanted to post it here so we can decide whether to post them or not:

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4122/capricacity8am.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2720/capricacity23vq.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4691/capricacity35es.jpg

From This Site: http://www.fxstation.com/page3/page3.html

I know the first one we actually see, but this shot was a bit clearer, anyways, I mean mainly the second two, they show other parts of Caprica City, and despite not being absolutley "show" rendered, they were done quite well and would be good imagery IMO. I dunno, but I would like to know your opinions --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:51, 4 July 2006 (CDT)

:The quality is excellent, and the source is cited. I don't see any problem. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:32, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
: I do not see any issue in using these pictures either. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:38, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
::Great, then I'll start "redecorating" ;) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 01:47, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

:::Well, use the on-air shot as the "title pic" at the top of the Caprica City article, but yeah just sprinkle these throughout the rest of the article. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:58, 6 July 2006 (CDT)
::::Looked at article: what you did was perfect. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:00, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

== Caprica City or New Cap City? ==

Might the picture with the caption "Caprica City prior to the First Cylon War" (and currently featured in the opening of ''Caprica'') actually be New Cap City? The darker and grungier aesthetics of the scene seem to align much more with New Cap City as depicted in "There Is Another Sky" than the brighter and more modern skylines that seem to dominate Caprica City. A case might be made that it's an older part of the city, like the neighborhood where the Adamas live. However, the zeppelin looks far too much like the one that prowled the streets of New Cap, and like nothing we've seen (so far) in the "real" world. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:40, 3 March 2010 (GMT)
: The same thing occured to me. I think it's New Cap. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 22:49, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
: Good eye. It's probably New Cap City. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 22:51, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
: Good theory, I never really thought of that to begin with! [[User:CommanderTony|CommanderTony]] 16:49, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
* It is New Cap City. Check the ticker that is roughly beneath the gigantic dirigible. It reads "Welcome to New Cap Ci-". The same opening (just as the title "Caprica" appears) also has a split-second appearance of one of those steampunk airplanes that "killed" Heracles in "The Imperfections of Memory". Since those planes don't seem to exist in real Caprica (more modern, atmospheric Vipers seem to be whats used for Caprica Air Force) we can assume the shot is indeed one of New Cap City. --[[User:Neakal|Neakal]] 20:24, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Caprica City/Archive 1

2010-03-14T20:24:22Z

Neakal:

== Nuclear attack ==

Can it be safe to assume that Cap City was attacked by a [[Wikipedia: Neutron bomb|neutron bomb]] instead of conventional nukes? Granted, the "landlord bomb" (neutron bombs kill people but don't destroy buildings) is largely a myth, but there is enough of a truth to it if they are used tactically. I'm assuming that the Cylons would have the know-how to use such weapons in the optimal manner.--[[User:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]] 01:11, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:It's likely, and maybe even worth speculating about in-text (although I'd prefer that to be on [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] than here), but not okay to state as a definitive fact. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:22, 20 January 2006 (EST)

::Nuclear weapons on the show appear to use ordinary Plutonium, and are not neutron bombs. And we see shock waves moving through the city briefly. What may confuse you is that we see Helo in cities that aren't destroyed: the Cylons destroyed most cities, such as Caprica City (the capital), but they ''intentionally spared'' a few cities like Delphi. Our educated guess is that they were spared so the Cylons could use them as military ground bases. But most of the cities on the planet have been destroyed. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13:25, 20 January 2006 (EST)

In the mini series Adama states "thirty minutes ago, a thermonuclear warhead in the 50 MEGATON range detonated over Caprica City" this article states 50 KILOTONES, unless someone corrects me i'm going to change it - [[user:lordmutt|lordmutt]]

Changed, just popped in the DVD adama definitely says megaton - [[user:lordmutt|lordmutt]]

==Geography of Caprica==
Okay, let's break this down. Helo and G-Sharon first set down at most a few hours outside of Caprica, since Baltar was able to make it to their Raptor on foot. Helo then runs for about six days before meeting C-Sharon. They can't have spent the 4 days between "33" and "Water" traveling far, since Sharon's purported raptor is still within binocular range. Two days later, in "Bastille Day", they arrive at the deserted city.

That puts Unnamed City #1 no more than about 8 walking days from Caprica City.

They stay there until "Litmus", and then hit the road again in "Six degrees of separation", passing a countryside bridge. This time they're running with substantially greater urgency. In "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down", they find themselves in the sewer system of a second unnamed city.

That puts Unnamed City #2 no more than about 11 running days from City #1.

8 Days later, they pass through another rural area in "The Hand of God" while they overnight in a barn. By now, Delphi is "eight or ten" days off.

In "Colonial Day", 11 days later, they make it to the outskirts of Delphi. Two days after that, they make it down to the spaceport. Within another day or two, they arrive at the museum.

Thus:

Caprica City <--8 days--> Unnamed City #1 <--11 days--> Unnamed City #2 <--8 days--> Unnamed rural area <--13 days--> Delphi Spaceport

Does anyone have any notion as to how much distance a fit man of Helo's build could cover in a single day? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:51, 19 February 2006 (EST)

:That's a pretty interesting/tricky [http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/ question]. Lots of variables. Under ideal conditions, a fit man could probably travel 50 miles in a single day pretty easily. Flat, smooth roads, plenty of water and food/energy would make 5mph for about 10 hours possible. I'm betting we're looking at less than ideal conditions for Helo though. Since this is an infantry situation, he'd probably want to avoid the roads ("linear danger areas", where enemies might approach quickly with little notice). Taking it offroad would considerably slow him down, most likely, especially if he is not familiar with the area. Also, we're not just talking about a single day, since whatever pace he is traveling must be spread out over almost a week. Also, considering that he's "behind enemy lines", his movement would likely be slowed by having to be cautious about being spotted, using/identifying cover, etc. And that's all assuming that he's got food/water on hand and doesn't need to spend time foraging for such things. Taking that all into account I'd think 10-15 miles a day would be a pretty admirable pace. Speaking from experience, I ended up running a marathon as a fit person who really hadn't done the proper training. I completed it, but could hardly walk straight (due to soreness, etc) for the next few days. You have piqued mine (and my wife's) curiousity on this topic, and we discussed the possibility of doing an experiment on this topic sometime. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 22:58, 19 February 2006 (EST)

::My curiosity is piqued, too. Worthy to add to the [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]] article, perhaps? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 00:12, 20 February 2006 (EST)

:::I've been wanting to work on a "Geography of Caprica" article for a while, but haven't been able to get around to it. There might be enough material here to re-create the old Caprica (RDM) article with a blurb-and-link on The Twelve Colonies (RDM). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:30, 20 February 2006 (EST)

:::: I've spent some time in my life backpacking. On one trip, we had a guy who, no kidding, counted his steps every day. ''While'' having conversations with us all and helping navigate, etc. No idea how he did it. Anyway, about half way through our ten-day trip, we figured out based on his counting, our total distances for each sayt, etc. that we were averaging roughly 3mph. That may seem slow, but we weren't trying to be fast, really, and were interested in looking at pretty scenery and stuff. This also included breaks for lunch and resting, so actual speed at a given moment was likely a bit higher. This was in the South Country of Philmont (which is in northern New Mexico), so not exactly flat and there were trails, but not roads much.

:::: Now, all of us were Boy Scouts, but none of us were military personell and we had big packs to slow us down that Helo didn't, but then... Not having a pack means he had to forage some. Anyway... I thought that might be some helpful information for someone who's working things out. --[[User:Day|Day]] 11:57, 20 February 2006 (EST)

== More to Add ==

I have a good-size compilation of facts relating to Caprica City that I could put in the article. I know that part of editing is being bold, but due to the number of facts I have I believe it would be best to have this request approved. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:01, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:Thanks for your caution. Why not post them here, along with your source? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:12, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::No problem. I'll get started right now. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 14:18, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::This looks generally good. Was the "riverwalk" mentioned in dialog or an on-screen caption? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:53, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::The area where Number Six murders the infant was called "Riverwalk Market" in an on-screen caption in the Miniseries.--[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 14:57, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::Werid. I can't remember that... is there a screenshot? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 14:59, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::I'll try. Also the area where the conversation between Baltar and Six occurs the day of the attack is called "Government Center Plaza" in the novelization. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:03, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::Novelization follows a different continuity though. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:06, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::::Won't put it in the article. Just thought it was interesting. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:10, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::::Can't we note what the novelization says with a caveat that it's non-canon? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:13, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::::::Sure. I can put it down right now in the article and put a disclaimer after it. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 15:26, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::::::::::::::Actually Roslin mentions in again in LDBY II. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:44, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

:::::::::::::::In that case, that title really does deserve to be in the article. I'll add LDBY II as a citation. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 09:01, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

== Looking For Some Trivia ==

You know that snaking elevated compelx I mentioned in the Riverwalk section of the article? I've seen it used on ''Stargate-SG1'' for the Tolon homeworld and in ''Agent Cody Banks'' as the CIA's Seattle headquarters, so it is a popular film location. Does anyone know where it is in the real world and its name? I'd like to use that info for this article's trivia section. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 09:09, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

:All fine US tv series are made in Vancouver; BSG, the Stargates, X-Files, Dark Angel, the L Word: if you check IMDB many of the secondary and minor cast members have appeared on each of these shows in the past. They tend to just be sets in and around Vancouver. The "Riverwalk" of which you query is in fact part of the campus of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Fraser_University Simon Fraser University], specifically check out this [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sfu-academic-quadrangle-pond.jpg photo here] --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 09:30, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

::Thanks a lot for that. I'll have a trivia section up momentarily. --[[User:Homeworld616|Homeworld616]] 09:44, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

==Good "New" Images==
Hey, I was looking at this website of one of the guys who rendered Caprica City in the mini. In his gallery he shows, among the shots we saw, several other shots which we didn't see and were great (he also has a cleaner version of some). They are good shots, but I wanted to post it here so we can decide whether to post them or not:

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4122/capricacity8am.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2720/capricacity23vq.jpg

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4691/capricacity35es.jpg

From This Site: http://www.fxstation.com/page3/page3.html

I know the first one we actually see, but this shot was a bit clearer, anyways, I mean mainly the second two, they show other parts of Caprica City, and despite not being absolutley "show" rendered, they were done quite well and would be good imagery IMO. I dunno, but I would like to know your opinions --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:51, 4 July 2006 (CDT)

:The quality is excellent, and the source is cited. I don't see any problem. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:32, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
: I do not see any issue in using these pictures either. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:38, 5 July 2006 (CDT)
::Great, then I'll start "redecorating" ;) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 01:47, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

:::Well, use the on-air shot as the "title pic" at the top of the Caprica City article, but yeah just sprinkle these throughout the rest of the article. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 12:58, 6 July 2006 (CDT)
::::Looked at article: what you did was perfect. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 13:00, 6 July 2006 (CDT)

== Caprica City or New Cap City? ==

Might the picture with the caption "Caprica City prior to the First Cylon War" (and currently featured in the opening of ''Caprica'') actually be New Cap City? The darker and grungier aesthetics of the scene seem to align much more with New Cap City as depicted in "There Is Another Sky" than the brighter and more modern skylines that seem to dominate Caprica City. A case might be made that it's an older part of the city, like the neighborhood where the Adamas live. However, the zeppelin looks far too much like the one that prowled the streets of New Cap, and like nothing we've seen (so far) in the "real" world. --[[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:40, 3 March 2010 (GMT)
: The same thing occured to me. I think it's New Cap. -- [[User:Penumbra|Penumbra]] 22:49, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
: Good eye. It's probably New Cap City. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [[bsp:|Battlestar Pegasus]] 22:51, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
: Good theory, I never really thought of that to begin with! [[User:CommanderTony|CommanderTony]] 16:49, 4 March 2010 (UTC)
: It is New Cap City. Check the ticker that is roughly beneath the gigantic dirigible. It reads "Welcome to New Cap Ci-". The same opening (just as the title "Caprica" appears) also has a split-second appearance of one of those steampunk airplanes that "killed" Heracles in "The Imperfections of Memory". Since those planes don't seem to exist in real Caprica (more modern, atmospheric Vipers seem to be whats used for Caprica Air Force) we can assume the shot is indeed one of New Cap City. --[[User:Neakal|Neakal]] 20:24, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Troy (RDM)

2009-11-23T02:16:51Z

Neakal:

: ''For others with the same name, see: [[Troy]].''

'''Troy''' was a Colonial mining settlement that suffered a cataclysm, killing a majority of the people who were there at the time. It was not one of the Twelve Colonies themselves, but a minor settlement said to be within their sphere of influence. The colony was either located in the vicinity of [[Aerelon]] or possibly settled by it ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

The [[Humanoid Cylon|Cylon copy]] [[Number Eight]] known as [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] believed that she and her parents, [[Abraham Valerii|Abraham]] and [[Katherine Valerii|Katherine]] Valerii, had lived on Troy ("[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", "[[Flesh and Bone]]"). In reality, as a Cylon construct, Valerii had no parents.

== Notes ==
* In Greek mythology, in Homer's Iliad, Troy was a city and the site of the [[Wikipedia:Trojan War|Trojan War]].
*If one looks at the backstory and the story of the Trojan horse with a certain amount of abstractness, they can see a general parallel. Sharon Varelii could be seen as the Trojan horse sent by the Cylons, who would be considered the other Greek factions aligned against the Trojans. The Cylons send Valerii into the Colonies through Troy to destroy them. Valerii is accepted and ultimately betrays the colonies much to their shock and surprise.
* According to the fictional [[Series bible|backstory]], her mother was still alive when Boomer left for the Colonial Fleet academy and that the accident happened en route. In the [[Miniseries]], she tells Boxey that her parents died when she was little. Later, in "[[Downloaded]]", she says that she received a gift from her mother when she left for the academy. This jibes with the first point, but conflicts with what she tells Boxey, therefore becoming a [[Continuity errors (RDM)|continuity error]] unless training exists for very young cadets.
* A deleted scene from Daybreak mentions that the disaster was the result of a protective dome over a city collapsing and causing a massive explosion as a result of a chain reaction. The fact that cities on Troy were domed indicates that the rest of the planet was either uninhabitable or at least very unfriendly to human life.
[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Troy (RDM)

2009-11-23T02:15:25Z

Neakal:

: ''For others with the same name, see: [[Troy]].''

'''Troy''' was a Colonial mining settlement that suffered a cataclysm, killing a majority of the people who were there at the time. It was not one of the Twelve Colonies themselves, but a minor settlement said to be within their sphere of influence. The colony was either located in the vicinity of [[Aerelon]] or possibly settled by it ([[Flesh and Bone]]).

The [[Humanoid Cylon|Cylon copy]] [[Number Eight]] known as [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Sharon "Boomer" Valerii]] believed that she and her parents, [[Abraham Valerii|Abraham]] and [[Katherine Valerii|Katherine]] Valerii, had lived on Troy ("[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", "[[Flesh and Bone]]"). In reality, as a Cylon construct, Valerii had no parents.

== Notes ==
* In Greek mythology, in Homer's Iliad, Troy was a city and the site of the [[Wikipedia:Trojan War|Trojan War]].
*If one looks at the backstory and the story of the Trojan horse with a certain amount of abstractness, they can see a general parallel. Sharon Varelii could be seen as the Trojan horse sent by the Cylons, who would be considered the other Greek factions aligned against the Trojans. The Cylons send Valerii into the Colonies through Troy to destroy them. Valerii is accepted and ultimately betrays the colonies much to their shock and surprise.
* According to the fictional [[Series bible|backstory]], her mother was still alive when Boomer left for the Colonial Fleet academy and that the accident happened en route. In the [[Miniseries]], she tells Boxey that her parents died when she was little. Later, in "[[Downloaded]]", she says that she received a gift from her mother when she left for the academy. This jibes with the first point, but conflicts with what she tells Boxey, therefore becoming a [[Continuity errors (RDM)|continuity error]] unless training exists for very young cadets.
* A deleted scene from Daybreak mentions that the disaster was the result of a protective over a city dome collapsing and causing a massive explosion as a result of a chain reaction. The fact that cities on Troy were domed indicates that the rest of the planet was either uninhabitable or at least very unfriendly to human life.
[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Caprica (series)

2009-11-22T17:49:10Z

Neakal:

:''For information on the colony in the [[Re-imagined Series]], see [[Caprica (RDM)]]. For other uses, see [[Caprica]].''
{{Series Data
| image= Caprica Promo Shot.jpg
| title= Caprica
| creator= [[Remi Aubuchon]]
| starring=
| composer= [[Bear McCreary]]
| company= [[w:NBC Universal|NBC Universal]]
| seasons= 1
| episodes= 20 (18 ordered and the already-shot pilot)
| episodelistid= Caprica
| channel= [[Sci Fi Channel]]
| US airdate= 2010<ref>Although an airdate for the series has yet to be announced, the two-hour pilot episode was released in advance of the series premiere on 21 April 2009.</ref>
| UK airdate= Spring 2009<ref>{{cite_news|first=Chris|last=Aylott|url=http://www.skypressoffice.co.uk/SkyOne/news/showarticle.asp?id=2528&month=8&year=2008|title=Sky1 secures exclusive UK rights to Battlestar Galactica prequel CAPRICA|publisher=|page=|date=6 August 2008|accessdate=9 August 2008|language=}}</ref>
| dvd=
| exec producer= [[Ronald D. Moore]] [[David Eick]] [[Remi Aubuchon]]
| producer=
| supervising producer=
| associate producer=
| co-producer=
| story editor=
| prev=
| next=
| itunes=
}}
'''''Caprica''''' is a television [[spin-off]] of the [[Re-imagined Series]], to be produced by [[Remi Aubuchon]], [[Ronald D. Moore]] and [[David Eick]] for the [[Sci Fi Channel]]. It is a [[Wikipedia:Prequel|prequel]] that focuses on the Adama and [[Graystones|Graystone]] families on the planet [[Caprica (RDM)|Caprica]] and the invention of the [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] in the Twelve Colonies. The pilot is set 58 years before the ''Battlestar Galactica'' [[Miniseries, Night 1|miniseries]] and was released direct to DVD on April 21, 2009.

==Overview ==

Just as ''Battlestar Galactica'' is about a lot more than space battles, ''Caprica'' will be as much a family drama as a sci-fi tale. Remi Aubuchon (''[[w:The Lyon's Den|The Lyon's Den]]'', ''[[w:24 (TV series)|24]]'') wrote the pilot script with co-writer (and executive producer) Ronald D. Moore; "Galactica" veterans Ronald D. Moore and David Eick are the executive producers. The two-hour pilot was directed by [[Jeff Reiner]] (''[[w:Friday Night Lights|Friday Night Lights]]'').<ref name="release">Official Press Release: "SCIFI GIVES 'CAPRICA' THE GREENLIGHT". 18 March 2008. [[bsp:Caprica Press Release|Available exclusively on BattlestarPegasus.com]].</ref>

== Plot summary==

The ''Caprica'' pilot takes place 58 years before the ''Battlestar Galactica'' [[Miniseries, Night 1|miniseries]]. It follows the lives of two families, the [[Graystone]]s and the [[Adamas|Adamas]]<ref>"Adams" is the Caprican surname adopted by the Adamas, since Adama is a Tauron name. The name was changed due to anti-Tauron prejudices on Caprica at the time.</ref> (the family of [[William Adama]]). A startling development occurs by the end of the pilot — the creation of the first cybernetic life-form node or "[[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]]".

The Graystone family includes the father [[Daniel Graystone|Daniel]] and mother [[Amanda Graystone|Amanda]], a computer scientist and surgeon respectively. When their daughter [[Zoe Graystone|Zoe]] dies due to the religious fanaticism of her boyfriend, [[Ben Stark]], her father manages to resurrect her — after a fashion. Already having acquired a [[digital clone]] of her personality developed by Zoe herself, he uses stolen technology to create a robotic version of his daughter, the first step towards creating the Cylon race.

The same terrorist attack claims the lives of [[Joseph Adama]]'s wife [[Shannon Adama|Shannon]] and daughter [[Tamara Adama|Tamara]]. Together with Daniel Graystone he initially works on bringing back their children, but is appalled at his partner's methods and ethics. However, as a result of this tragedy, he grows closer to his eleven-year old son William.

==Cast and characters==
Although the main series cast is yet to be revealed, it is expected to include the following roles:

* [[Eric Stoltz]] as [[Daniel Graystone]]
* [[Esai Morales]] as [[Joseph Adama]]
* [[Paula Malcomson]] as [[Amanda Graystone]]
* [[Alessandra Torresani]] as [[Zoe Graystone]]
* [[Magda Apanowicz]] as [[Lacy Rand]]
* [[ Polly Walker]] as Sister [[Clarice Willow]]

==Production history==
===Initial concept===
According to an [http://www.ifmagazine.com/feature.asp?article=1487 interview] with IFmagazine, David Eick said that they had been contemplating a spinoff prequel series since [[Season 2 (2005-06)|Season 2]] began and were tossing around ideas. About the same time, ''24'' writer Remi Aubuchon pitched a series that had a lot of similarities to the Cylon storyline. Realizing that they could not devote their full time to both ''Battlestar Galactica'' and a spinoff, Moore and Eick decided to merge with Auchubon, seeing it as an opportunity: "We took some of what we had and some of what he had ".

According to a [http://mboard.scifi.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1818631#Post1818631 post] on the official Scifi.com messageboard by Ron Moore's wife [[Terry Dresbach]], executive producer Remi Aubochon will be the showrunner for "Caprica", in charge of the writing staff. Ron Moore will oversee and approve the story arcs, casting, sets, and read the scripts, though Moore will probably rarely write an individual episode for ''Caprica''.

In an [http://scifipulse.net/battlestarnews/RemiAubuchon.html interview] in Dreamwatch Magazine in May 2006, Remi Aubuchon said that he originally pitched a series which was an "allegorical story about slavery with robots", when approached by Moore and Eick. Aubuchon stated that [[William Adama]] will be 11 years old when the series begins. Aubuchon described the new show by saying, "This is a very human story about how our own hubris can lead us to disaster". He goes on to say that ''Caprica'' is meant to stand on its own from ''BSG'': while still addressing backstory issues from ''Battlestar'', it will not be required to have watched it to enjoy ''Caprica''. However, "certain elements have been embedded into the first few episodes of season 3" of ''Battlestar Galactica'', which might refer to things which will be further fleshed-out in the prequel series.

On November 6, 2006, the Sci Fi Pulse website reported that Ron D. Moore updated Dreamwatch magazine regarding the new series:

:"It's actually a prequel, and this would be a one hour pilot not a mini – series. It takes place 50 years before the events of ''Battlestar Galactica'' and it's essentially about the creation of the Cylons.

:"It's a very different show; it's not action – adventure and it's not even in space. It takes place on the Planet (sic) Caprica and it’s more of a family drama, with political and corporate intrigue. We're well into the writing of it actually; we're doing re-writes on the script right now and Sci Fi has been very happy so far. At the moment, we're just waiting to see if they greenlight it or not. Generally, there’s always a two step process: there's ordering the pilot and then there's ordering the series, but because we're not designing it as a mini – series, I don't know that anybody would even see the pilot if they chose not to go to series with it.

:"Tonally, it will be very different," promises Moore. “This is Caprica before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|fall]]. It's a decadent world, but also a world that's going at a very fast pace. It's a prosperous society that hasn’t experienced the devastation of the first Cylon war yet, so this culture has really not been taken down a peg, and their hubris is getting the better of them. It's a go – go society that's teetering on the brink, so it’s not that apocalyptic survival scenario of ''Galactica''. The whole thing is tonally very different." <ref>{{cite_news|first=Ian M. |last=Cullen|url=http://scifipulse.net/battlestarnews/RDM_Caprica_Update.html|title=Ron D. Moore Gives Progress Report For Caprica|publisher=Sci Fi Pulse|page=|date=6 November 2006|accessdate=10 November 2006|language=English}}</ref>

===Development hell===
Since April 26, 2006, ''Caprica'' was in [[w:development hell|"development hell"]] (major rewrites and resubmissions to network executives), until it was seriously considered during the [[WGA strike]] of 2007-08. On March 24, 2007, Moore discussed the status of ''Caprica'' with Salon.com's Laura Miller:

: "It's possible [that the series will still happen]. It's been in development at SciFi for a while and they haven't picked it up. And I don't know if they're going to pick it up at this point. There's talk of doing it as a TV movie and seeing how that works, as a back-door pilot, much as we did with the "Galactica" [[Miniseries]]. Right now there's nothing telling me that they're going to move on it anytime soon, so I'm starting to feel that it's going to remain on the development shelf.

: "It was a different kind of show. Instead of an action-adventure sci-fi piece, it was more of a prime-time soap, a sci-fi "[[w:Dallas (TV series)|Dallas]]." It was about a family, the Adamas, and [[Graystones|a company]], and it was about the creation of the cylons (sic) 50 years ago. It was not going to be space-based, but set entirely on the planet of Caprica. But it would have sci-fi touches, and it would deal with issues like artificial intelligence and the various schemings and backbitings that you get in the traditional soap opera."<ref>{{cite_news|first=Laura|last=Miller|url=http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2007/03/24/battlestar/index2.html|title=The man behind "Battlestar Galactica"|publisher=Salon.com|page=3|date=24 March 2007|accessdate=25 April 2007|language=}}</ref>

===New life===
On September 18, 2007, it was reported that with the end of ''Battlestar Galactica'' around the corner and Moore poised to leave Sci Fi for NBC, Sci Fi executives were considering green-lighting the 2-hour pilot for production as a means of keeping Moore with the channel. Contingent on the performance of "[[Razor]]", it was reported that ''Caprica'' might also see a release in the form of a direct-to-DVD movie that is simultaneously premiered on television <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.tvweek.com/blogs/james-hibberd/2007/09/sci_fi_executives_weigh_battle.php|title=Sci Fi Executives Weigh 'Battlestar Galactica' Options|date=September 18, 2007|accessdate=September 18, 2007|last=|first=|format=|language=English}}</ref>. Furthermore, with the [[WGA strike|writer's strike]] (the first since 1988), networks scrambled to stockpile finished scripts for various productions, and thus ''Caprica'' became a front runner for production because its script had already been completed before said strike.<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.syfyportal.com/news424175.html|title=SciFi Channel Stockpiling For Writers Strike|date=September 20, 2007|accessdateSeptember 20, 2007last=|first=|format=|language=English}}</ref>

In March of 2008, it was announced by the SciFi Channel during a news conference that ''Caprica'' will get a two-hour pilot episode<ref>http://www.syfyportal.com/news424829.html</ref>, the filming for which ended June 19th.<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.straight.com/article-151166/its-a-bc-summer-stars-and-film-shoots|title=It's a B.C. summer of stars and film shoots|date=26 June 2008|accessdate=26 June 2008|author=Craig Takeuchi, R. Paul Dhillon, and Sean Minogue|format=|language=}}</ref>

===Series pickup===
On December 2, 2008, SciFi Channel officially announced that Caprica was picked up for a 20-episode first season. According to the press release, production is slated to begin in the summer of 2009 and the series is expected to begin airing in 2010. The reason for the delay is attributed to the fact that they are attempting to regroup the core staff that worked on the pilot and ''Battlestar Galactica'', as these persons have since found work on other projects.<ref>{{cite_news|last=Rosenblatt|first=Michelle|url=http://nbcumv.com/scifi/release_detail.nbc/scifi-20081202000000-scifigreenlights.html|title=Official Press Release: 'Battlestar Galactica' Prequel Gets 20 Episode Order |publisher=NBC-Universal|page=|date=2 Decmeber 2008|accessdate=2 December 2008|language=}}</ref>

===Analysis===
In the finale of Battlestar Galactica, [[Earth (RDM)#A New Earth|our Earth]] was discovered 150,000 years before the present day. Therefore, unlike most science fiction series, ''Caprica'' is a tale of ancient history rather than future history.

==Visual Cues==
* The shape of the Graystone office building's tower is pentagonal, capped with two concentric pentagons -- the same pattern that was marked on original-series Cylon Raiders.

* The monotheistic movement on Caprica uses an "infinity" symbol to represent itself.

* The Mandala's colors can be seen in Zoe's V-Club room as light shines through the windows as well as on Zoe's wall when her mother visits her room.

* Daniel Graystone's personal computer has the same flowing glyphs that appear abord Basestars and Cylon Installations. In addition, at one point, it is possible to see the words "Datastream" on the screen.

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Behind the Scenes]] [[Category:RDM]] [[Category: Series in the Re-Imagined Continuity]]

Talk:Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)/Archive 1

2008-06-19T19:08:18Z

Neakal:

== Lords of Kobol ==
Does the existance of the Mercury class Battlestars imply that Hermes/Mercury is a Lord of Kobol? --[[User:PrePressChris|PrePressChris]] 15:15, 18 October 2006 (CDT)+
:The writers of the show are dancing about in the usage of Greek and Roman mythological names. Since Hermes hasn't been mentioned specifically as a Lord, no, we can't add it. I'm not big on mixing the pantheons until the context of the names in the show are clear. We have a list of names (Greek, mostly) of names heard of ships or used as people, but until used in in the context as a Lord, we shouldn't assume that the name is actually that of a Lord. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:20, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
::That makes sense. It occured to me after I wrote the above that the name could refer to quicksilver, which would make sense if the Mercury class was faster than earlier ones. That would also tidy up the roman nomenclature.
::Where is the list of names you mentioned? --[[User:PrePressChris|PrePressChris]] 15:30, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
:::See the section, "Other mythological names in Colonial culture," this article. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:28, 18 October 2006 (CDT)
::::LMAO. I was searching all over this site. It didn't occur to me that it'd be in the same article I was commenting on. --[[User:PrePressChris|PrePressChris]] 20:47, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

The article mentions that seven lords have been identified. Anyone notice this is the same as the number of identified cylons? It could be that each cylon model represents a lord (i.e. Sharon - Athena, Six (or maybe three) - Hera). The 5 unidentified cylons match 5 unidentified lords match the 5 in the temple of five. On a related note: how about the (norse) idea of an allfather - the Cylons recognize the allfather, but none of the lower "gods" (including the Lords of Kobol). I suppose this would be an alternate theory to the Jealous God being the god of cylons. --[[User:Ublej|Ublej]] 17:29, 4 January 2007 (CST)
:The Colonials have Zeus as the boss of all other gods. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 17:32, 4 January 2007 (CST)

== More Cowbell ==
Actually, more images, please. Great text content, but a couple of more images applied evenly would really brighten things up. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:04, 8 December 2006 (CST)
:Ooh. And there are some XHTML problems. I'll get on those. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:25, 8 December 2006 (CST)

== Out-of-Universe Referencing and Revision ==

I get very confused with voice when reading this article, where we speak of the Colonials and compare it to real-world references. I wanted to keep these important notes in but not to the point where we had to discuss every detail or explanation. With that in mind, I got bold:

*The two articles that go overboard in discussing the Greek Gods and Greek Mythology are deleted, per Battlestar Wiki policy: We aren't a general encyclopedia, so Wikipedia links to more extensive articles should do for this. Both articles have been discussed of late as being redundant or just plain nongermane.

*This article's out-of-universe notes were moved as footnotes. This simplifies the read but keeps the voice of the article in discussing the Colonials, not the Colonials-vs.-Greek-vs.-Norse. Note that the terms "Greek", Norse, and the like are also removed or pulled; these don't exist in the series and it makes it confusing to make the comparison. The name of the gods usually explain it all but the important points are now footnotes.

I'm finding that reading articles that analyze the Colonials and Cylons take too much from the real-world to form their explanations when in-universe comments work well without overly drawn out comparisons. Comments? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:28, 12 January 2007 (CST)

:While I support the idea, I think it's possible to take it too far. If we take your approach to the extreme, it's impossible to have any real-world references in articles, which happens fairly often and is simply necessary in some cases. I think that this is more important:
:That the ''main'' voice of an article is "in-universe". Meaning no general real-world articles, but "in-universe" articles can contain a few real-world references if necessary.

:Case in point my new [[Mythological references]] page, which generally goes like "<ship/place name> - <significance in the show> <real world reference>". I didn't go out of my way to hide the Greek/Roman/Norse allusions in "in-universe" explinations, like saying that Greek mythology is really Colonial mythology in the context of the show (it probably is in fact, but that's more something for this article).

:However, in this article here, it's appropriate to only detail the religious stuff as it pertains to the Colonials, and not to the real world. So we could keep the "Mythological references" article seperate, delete the references here (which I copied anyways) and link to it from here, as a place that deals with mythology that goes beyond religion and also includes more real-life explinations and links. That would help to keep the POVs seperate --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:56, 13 January 2007 (CST)

::I concur. Whereever we can keep the in-universe voice, great. Where out-of-universe comparisons must be in line with the text to keep the article germane and sensible, it's also fine. The recent articles you built/rebuilt exemplify good uses of that practice. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:06, 30 January 2007 (CST)

==Concerning religion of the cylons and the colonies==

Keeping Ron Moore's twists and turns from the original series I would like to
suggest that the Lords of Kobol and the "jealous" god, are for all intensive purposes the
Cylons. They are modeled after and therefore more directly linked to the deities say than
Adama is "being Zeus" among the humans. So much so that specific units have become avatars, perhaps posessed of a lord
or at the very least evolving an actual soul in likeness of a lord.

12 cylons = 12 olympians
Final Five - Temple of Five

The mystery of the final five hints to them being something other
that the existing models. Perhaps these five could not be replicated
like the others because of their conflict with the cylon god.

Clearly a more human "being" is developing in Deana in her search for
enlightenment, in Caprica in her search for Love and in Sharon in her self acceptance.
With Deanna the search for enlightenment became so overpweing
the entire line was boxed. With Sharon it's almost as if the humanity
Boomer clung to has moved to Agathon. Boomer is not the woman that
would not leave her human apartment after resurrecting,
but both have in their own fashion esentially accepted who they are.
Caprica appears in a constant state of conflict that many humans will relate to,
while her etherial counterpart is the self assured herald of her cylon maker.

For all the pagan references in the original series we still had Count Iblis
and the ship of lights taking on very familliar christan concepts of angels
and satan. Nothing is ever quite that black and white in the reimagined series.

While the reference has been fleeting, the notion of a god outside the
Lords of Kobol is clear, and he would be the cylons god. Dodona Selloi seems to
refer to the cylon god as nothing more or less than a lord of kobol.
My thought is that somehow this jealous god has sort of ensnared the likeness
perhaps even conciousness of the lords in creating the cylon race, so closely that single copies become avatars of the
lords. The final five could be so possesed that they are not part of the cylon race,
refusing the mechanations of the cylon god. Others an avatar is what we see
developing in Sharon, Deanna and Caprica.

And even the cylon god, the Count Iblis whose voice was that of the imperious
leader in the original series has a model: Brother Cavel. Cavel is horribly wicked, he is always urging his
fellow cylons to the most horrific of actions. He appears out of nowhwere all the time. And
yet, strangely, he seems to honor the importance of free will in his dealings with his brother
cylons, something you would expect of an Abrahamic god. He's not Satan then who would rather rule in hell than serve in
heaven, he is just far more satanic or evil than any characterization offered by a
member of a known pantheon of gods.

Yet another twist, If the Abrahmic god were competing with beings like himself
(greek gods), how satanic might he appear? An abrahamic god accepts free will: I can't make you worship me.
But is flawed like miltons Satan, if you don't worship me , your damned.
Satan's flaw in paradise lost was saying better to rule in hell than serve in
heaven. What he should have said was better to live free on earth not rule in
hell. So Cavel is a marvelous blend of an Abrahamic God & Satan floating through
space in a base ship with 7 of 12 would be Olympians. Caprica/ Aphrodite, Sharon
Athena and Deanna/Hestia(?). Starbuck/Artemis is the next to come forward?

Adama and Laura as Zeus and Hera? Two reason for two of the final five to stay
where they are. They have human avatars leading the fleet. Three male cylons just go with the
flow, well the male gods were always kind of boring anyway. At least if your a fan of
Wonder Woman.

The twist from original series to re-imagined series are always surprising and
wonderful in many ways. In the world of Sci Fi televison, the original Galactica made huge
advances by considering the existence of higher beings. Where would the Ancients of
Stargate or the Vorlons of Babylon be without Battlestar Galactica? Will we see actual communion with
higher beings in the re-imagined series? I don't expect to. It would gnaw at the the gritty
realism of the show.

The idea of this entire exodus from the colonies seeking earth, unifying to a
new Kobol, then breaking off back to earth and the colonies over and over seems entirely plausible. Gods are at the very least real in a
metaphoirical sense and 12 cylon models living in peace with a vast race of humans on new a Kobol in the end
sounds far more believeable than actual gods and godesses co-existing with man. (mevenstar)

:I think a more likely explanation is that whoever designed the humanoid cylons chose to use the lords as an inspiration or possibly the design was intended to mock the 12 lords and thus humanity itself. They chose 12 archetypes to define humanity saying basically all of you have one of these 12 personality types and that's it. I don't think the lords are using the cylons as avatars. Sounds too mystical. I also don't think time travel is involved and that somehow the cylons will one day go back into the past and become the lords.

:I don't really have a theory on exactly what the lords of kobol are but I do think the cylon god is a rogue lord of kobol. I also think the 13th tribe worshipped this rogue lord first. The 13th tribe left kobol because the other 12 pagan tribes were sacrifing humans and indulging in cannibalism. They first found the algae planet and built the temple of five which was dedicated to the five priests who worshipped the one whose name cannot be mentioned. This one whose name cannot be mentioned is almost certainly a rogue lord of kobol. If the priests were worshipping this one god this tells me the entire 13th tribe had the one god.

:Throughout the series we have seen the cylons talk about revelations from god and talk of his commandments. What is the source for this divine inspiration? I suspect the 12 colonies like we in the real world had scholars who studied ancient religions in the real world. They had reference books, academic papers, unearthed archeological artifacts and various other things that set out to paint a picture of what the 13th tribe was like. This information about the 13th tribe and their worship of the one god was known to the mechanical cylons before work on the humanoid models began and became the foundation of the cylon religion.

:The cylons have (more or less) adopted the religion of the 13th tribe. The commandments they speak of are what God demanded of the 13th tribe (an example god commands them to procreate). The humanoid models may not even be entirely aware that their religion mirrors the 13th tribe's ancient religion. This desire to find earth is also part of this borrowed (and possibly distorted) religion. The cylons want to find earth because according to their religion earth is the promised land...and it probably was...for the 13th colony. [[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 12:06, 30 January 2007.

== Lords of Kobol vs other gods ==

I don't think it's sensible to assume that every god or goddess mentioned is a Lord of Kobol. Case in point [[Aurora, Goddess of the Dawn]]. The Greeks didn't just have the Twelve Olympians (after whom the Lords seem to directly modeled after), but also minor deities. No reason the Colonials shouldn't as well. Another example is Nike, who is mentioned - even if not by name - in "Torn". She hang around with Zeus, and is often portrayed together with Athena, but is not a real Olympian. 
I suggest we have another header called "Other gods" or "Other deities" for those, with maybe a footnote stating that their status is uncertain. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:08, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

:I've generally felt that any god mentioned in the context of worship was a Lord of Kobol--the Colonials are very monotheistic. However, since we don't have clearer contexts for some, such as names used in [[Temple]] or something, it may be safe not to read too much into them. Some could be counterparts to [[w:Saint|saints]] for all we know. I agree that the Olympian/Titan arguments are meaningless here since Roman versions and other religions get mixed about. I generally agree with your comments. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:39, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
::The Colonials use Greek and Roman names interchangeably, but that doesn't have anything to do with the Olympian/Lords of Kobol parallel. I just have a feeling that that are just twelve Lords of Kobol who are direct parallel to the ancient Olympians. However, there have been a lot of mentions of other mythological figures and gods, especially in the ship names. Or usually when asked about believes it's more "Do you believe in the gods?" instead of "Do you believe in the Lords of Kobol". There is no definite statement that "gods" refers to the Lords of Kobol exclusively, even if they are clearly the main gods. Could go either way. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:06, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
::They're certainly [[w:polytheism|polytheistic]], not [[w:monotheism|monotheistc]], please read the definitions carefully. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 12:07, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
:::I meant "poly" and mistyped. Thanks. The notion that there are twelve Lords of Kobol is a TOS misconception that seems to have moved to RDM; I don't know of a citation for that. It's a lot easier to say "gods" than "Lords of Kobol", of course. While there could be other monothesistic or polythestic faiths with the Colonials, only one "sect" or denomination has been established officially: the five priests of the [[Temple of Five]]. Must be significant: they got a temple out of it in the middle of nowhere. -- [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:13, 18 April 2007 (CDT) ([[User_Talk:Spencerian|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Spencerian|Contribs]] - [[Special:Editcount/Spencerian|WonderNumbers]])
::::I get what you're saying, but I noticed a tendency here lately to push one kind of agenda, when there isn't much concrete evidence to pursue another equally valid interpretation. Obviously something needs to be written, but lack of concrete evidence for point A doesn't prove point B. There is no evidence for there being more than 12 Lords of Kobol either, though Occam's Razor would probably come to that conclusion then. But there are theories that the Lords were originally human leaders of the tribes who were deified later (even before the exodus from Kobol). It's speculation, but agrees with the quotes from the scriptures...As said, it could be either way.
::::However, this has nothing to do with different faiths. Nothing prevents a worshiper of the Lord of Kobol to also recognize or worship certain either deities. The ancient Greeks didn't only worship the Olympians for example. Exclusive worship is somewhat of a monotheistic concept. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:36, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::I don't think we even know if all the named Olympians are Lords of Kobol. Maybe "Lords of Kobol" is synonymous with "the gods", maybe it refers exclusively to the Olympian Dodekatheon, maybe it includes the Dodekatheon and the One Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken, maybe it only includes a few of the Olympians. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 18:35, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
::::::My point is that we haven't been explicitly told of any other ''faiths'', which differs from the number of gods. A single god can be worshipped differently based on many different faith structures, such as the Jews and Christians do. We haven't been given ''any'' data that suggests that their are other central faith structures other than the Lords of Kobol and God (with the [[five priests]]' diety being a possible exception). There are obviously different "denominations", for lack of a better term (Gemonese and Sagittarons do this), but I don't tend to interpret matters any further. Be it 10 or 10,000 Lords, they may fall under the same central faith structure. We don't know, so I don't try to interpret it much, but just drop it in the place that best fits. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:47, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::::Agreed. There is only evidence of one religion practiced in the twelve colonies, with various sects, denominations and personal interpretations, however it seems to be, for the most part, relatively uniform. There are two possible exceptions, however both of them may be particularly divergent sects / denominations of the colonial religion. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 19:28, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
:::::::: I disagree with the assumption that Aurora is a Lord of Kobol. She may be a god, but that doesn't make her a Lord of Kobol. I don't think anyone familiar with Greek mythology would think she fits with Zeus, Hera, Aphrodite, Artemis, Apollo, Athena, etc.

:::::::: I disagree with the assumption that Jupiter is just another name for Zeus and Mars is just another name for Ares. This has not been demonstrated on the show. However, I do realize that I'm the only one who thinks this way and that no one can grasp that they might be slightly different entities, like one a clone of the other. What if Jupiter is the Cylon God, while Zeus is a Colonial god. Think of the sacrilege your Wiki page is committing then!!! Remember ''only a Cylon'' has ever mentioned the god Jupiter. The Sacred Scrolls have (thus far) never mentioned this god - only Zeus, Hera, and the One Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken, whom I think is Jupiter. The temple of Five is for the One Whose Name Cannot Be Spoken, and the Sacred Scrolls tell us that the Eye of Jupiter is in the Temple of Five. Do the math. --[[User:MHall|MHall]] 17:45, 11 October 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::I think that, in the specific case of Zeus/Jupiter, RDM or one of TPTB mentioned that the name had to be changed from Zeus (which it originally was) because of some sort of copyright reason or something like that. I think it's either on a podcast or an interview, but I'm sure I heard it. I'll look it up. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:29, 11 October 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::Okay, I looked and found one in the "Eye of Jupiter" podcast [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Podcast:The_Eye_of_Jupiter]. I dunno if it's the one I remember, but either way the reasoning is different from what I thought, but the fact remains that Jupiter and Zeus are the same being-
:::::::::::'''''"Eye of Jupiter" was originally called "Eye of Zeus" for a very long time in draft form and into script. We changed the name, ultimately, for not very deep reasons. Just that there was something about "Eye of Zeus" that seemed a bit too mystical and a little bit too over-the-top, even for us. And that's saying somethin'. But we didn't want to- the story still was what the story was, and we didn't really wanna lose that aspect of what the episode was and the slide to call it Jupiter instead of Zeus was an arbitrary one, except it, somehow, for subjective reasons that are hard to explain, it sounded a little less hokey. Some could argue it's more hokey, but it was also a nice way to broaden the pantheon, as it were, ha ha ha, of the gods and their references in the Galactica universe and the mythos, in that Zeus being the Greek name for the father of the gods, and Jupiter being the later Roman version of the same idea. And it was nice to have both names- both proper names present in the Galactica world. I believe we've used other Roman names, from time to time, as well, although of course right off the top of my head I can't remember which ones they were, but I think we have established that. '''''
::::::::::So yeah....same being. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:40, 11 October 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::I'm familiar with the podcast, as well as the other source Sauron18 mentioned. What is there is not one Zeus running around, but two generations of Zeus running around? Then your page is screwed, because RDM decided, for somewhat arbitrary reasons, to call the older Zeus "Zeus" and the younger Zeus "Jupiter," and they are not the same individual, not even necessarily on the same "side." I'm content to lodge the protest and wait for the show to possibly prove your "canon" false. Yes, it could be that the page is correct - but it could be that the page is committing blasphemy in both the Cylon and Colonial religions, which would be an unpardonable sin, times two. This is my last comment on this. --[[User:MHall|MHall]] 02:15, 13 October 2007 (CDT)

== About Hera ==

I've recently gone through several Lord of Kobol articles and removed the Greek mythological references since this information isn't needed here (we're not a general encyclopedia) and because the Earth information doesn't always mesh with the series information. Right now, there's enough references for each Lord to stand on their own without out-of-universe comparisons.

One note about Hera. In our mythology she is the wife AND sister of Zeus (gross as that might be to some). I was about to revert [[User:Mudflap|Mudflap's]] recent deletion of the "sister" part when I realized after checking that the show has NOT noted this element of Hera in its own mythology. So, that stands for now. As I said, there is sufficient mythology generated by the show itself now to avoid adding much from our universe to theirs. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:15, 22 May 2007 (CDT)

: Selloi: I have a message for you from the one you worship. He speaks through me to you just as he speaks in your dreams. The message is... the fruit born of two peoples [Three's smile fades.] is alive. A child named after the wife and sister of the all-knowing Zeus. Hera lives.

: So, Hera is wife and sister of Zeus. I think somewhere on the page it says Zeus is the head God of the Colonials. What if Hera is the head God of the Colonials instead? I don't think it's been established that Zeus is the head God for the Colonials. He is all-knowing, true. --[[User:MHall|MHall]] 17:45, 11 October 2007 (CDT)
::Zarek: Zeus has returned to the Olympus. [Lee looks puzzled.] Adama's back.
::Good enough for me. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 02:16, 12 October 2007 (CDT)
:::And so if Zarek had said, "Artemis has returned to Olympus. Starbuck's back.", then this would mean that Artemis was the head god of the Colonials? There are 12 gods living in Olympus, ya know.
:::Boomer: I think those are the Gates of Hera.
:::Starbuck: You think?
:::Boomer: I'm putting together a lot of pieces from a lot of sources beyond your scriptures. If I'm right, that's the spot where your God supposedly stood and watched Athena throw herself down onto the rocks below out of despair over the exodus of the 13 tribes.
:::It's possible that the Colonials were once monotheistic and their God was Hera. And if it's possible, then you can't say their head god is Zeus. Who is the President of the Colonies? Zeus (Adama) or Hera (Roslin)? The Cylon God, as I indicated above, could be Jupiter. --[[User:MHall|MHall]] 02:01, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
::::The connotation here is that, given Adama is the military leader of the Fleet, Adama is the king of the gods, a la Zeus. Also, at the time that Zarek said that comment, Adama was effectively the leader of the Fleet, given that Roslin was basically overthrown due to the martial law decree and her prior arrest.
::::The correlation is clear here, and I don't see it being muddied up unless the writers choose to do so. Adama is Zeus.
::::Your Artemis/Starbuck example is logically flawed in that Starbuck herself is a Viper pilot, not the leader of the Fleet. So while Artemis would be a god, she would not be the head god. Also, Artemis is the "maiden goddess of the hunt", which describes Starbuck's initial role in the series (i.e. the best Viper pilot in the Fleet).
::::Also, there's nothing to say that the Cylons even follow the same god from the Colonial's pantheon. And most of the evidence given so far mentioned that they follow a completely different God. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 02:28, 13 October 2007 (CDT)
::::As to the Boomer quote "you God" does not necessarily imply "your ''only'' God". It can also (and very likely does) mean "''one of'' your Gods". --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 06:31, 13 October 2007 (CDT)

== Sisters ==

The article says "It is probable that Sisters, like Brothers, are lay clergy." Caprica character [[Clarice Willow]] is called both a "sister" and a "high priestess" in the casting info, so maybe "brother" and "sister" are simply interchangeable with "priest" and "priestess"? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 18:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:It's possible, but keep in mind that this is a preliminary casting sheet. It's probably based on the current script, but a lot of things changed from the Miniseries script that is public to the aired version. So, we shouldn't conclude too much from one or two words in it. Sure, it might turn out right, but we can still change it then. Personally, I've always thought that brother/sister is used for monks/nuns. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 18:59, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
::I'll ask Bradley Thompson at [[BW:OC]]. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 19:07, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Up until recently the use of "priest" was gender-neutral, using Elosha as a first example. If the official cast sheets for episodes use "priestess", that's OK, but I wanted to ensure we're not injecting our own words for established data. I've noted this for the unnamed female priest (assuming she, too was not a sister) in the Unnamed Characters list and the [[Escape Velocity]] article. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

== Buddhism in the Twelve Colonies? ==

I was watching "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down" and during the shot of the Observation Deck with Billie and Dualla, I noticed a bald man in orange robes in a meditative position. There was also an "ohmm" sound in the background murmur. RDM mentioned his interest in Eastern religions and philosophy and we know that different religious beliefs such as Caprica-monotheists and Mithraists existed and Saggitarrians practiced a different form of the Colonial religion. While I realise that meditation exists in many religions, the posture and style of the bald man strikes me as Buddhistic. Should we mention in the article that Buddhism or practices-in-the-Colonial-Religion-that-resemble-Buddhism existed in the Colonies?
Heres the picture of the Observation Deck picture by the way: [http://media.battlestarwiki.org/images/d/df/GalacticaInterior_ObservationDeck.jpg]
Note: I moved this question from God (RDM) where I accidentally posted to here just in case any of the moderators think it was vandalism. --[[User:Neakal|Neakal]] 19:08, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Talk:God (RDM)/Archive 1

2008-06-19T19:03:31Z

Neakal:

It always seemed to me that "God" is the Cylon central computer (or equivalent). My hypothesis is that the "re-imagined" Count Iblis will be the God.[[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 20:21, 21 May 2005 (EDT)

== from the author ==

Do you like this style of this God page that I wrote? I personally think the quotes are too numerous. I'll probably delete some quotes, but it's hard to know which might prove important. For example, Adama's speaking of God may be significant. I would love to have such quotes about other topics on other Wiki pages, as it's easier to do unbiased research this way.

Regarding your theory of the Cylon God being Iblis, although there probably is a head Cylon like that, their religion seems more abstract: "We are all God, all of us. I see the love that binds all living things together."

Should we include deleted scenes on Wiki pages? There is an important bit of dialog in KLG 1 about the legend of a jealous god who tried to elevate himself above the rest. Internal Six replies something like, "Blasphemy! There has only ever been one God."

I need help for the original series section of this God page. I haven't watched the original series since the late 70's! Feel free to do whatever you want with that section.

-[[User:MHall|MHall]]

I don't think we should include colonial expressions of "God", as I'm pretty sure they're just accidentals from the actors. - Chris

:The "… play God …" quote in particular needn't be considered monotheistic. A polytheist can easily refer to a singular god, and not mean the only God. "play god" can just as easily mean "play at being a god" as "play at being God himself".

:I would recommend removing that one at the very least from the monotheist list.
:--[[User:Brons|Brons]] 08:37, 3 December 2006 (CST)
:In complete agreement, I have removed that sentence. Even a polytheistic religion can refer to one god like this. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:57, 3 December 2006 (CST)

== about that "Jesus" thing ==

I've seen the original US release of the miniseries once, but what I've watched the most is the UK DVD. And I can't recall Tigh saying "Jesus". Wasn't that dubbed over with something else? I vaguely recall reading something about that --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:02, 13 September 2006 (CDT)
:It's in both of my copies of the miniseries (the pre-season one release and the season one boxed set.) The Lord appears in mysterious dialogue. :P --[[User:Slander|Slander]] 15:16, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
::It's when Adama shows Tigh the really old picture. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 15:18, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
::Yeah, I found it by now. It's really under the breath, which is why I missed it. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:24, 24 April 2007 (CDT)
Should that even be mentioned in the article? I thought that was just a mistake made by the actor. --[[User:R.Adair|R.Adair]]
:It's mentioned on the general gaffe article and some other places. But yeah, it's relevance here is somewhat doubtful. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:59, 17 July 2007 (CDT)

==pockets of Monotheism in the colonies?==

Ok this is a small matter but from the mini did anyone get the feeling that the worship of one single god wasn't completely unheard of in the colonies? Six's comments about God are mocked by Baltar but he isn't shocked by the notion of one god. Basically what I'm getting at is that in the real world we have people who claim to have gone back to pagan religions and they worship multiple gods...could the opposite have been true in the colonies. That a monotheistic religion was something some colonists adapted as a way to be contrary or as even an actual alternative to the kobolian faith? I'm not saying it was widespread or even a major issue within the colonies. Basically there were colonists who wanted to be different and were mocked for having what other colonists percieved as a wacky religion. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 02 February 2007.
: Gaeta makes comments that seem to support this in "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I" when Adama reviews the texts regarding Kobol. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:11, 2 February 2007 (CST)
::Caprica casting info confirms it, so I added a bit about it, with the part directly connected with Caprica plot hidden as a spoiler. [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 18:02, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

=="Scientific Explanation" Section==
Perhaps it's me, but I feel that this section is mainly theoretical and as such should not really be there. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:38, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:Erm, never mind ;) --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:39, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:I really like it, and vaguely thought of something similar once (not in such detail, but that god is a real construct). It also reminds me of the Ultimate Intelligence in Dan Simmon's ''[[w:Hyperion Cantos|Hyperion Cantos]]'' which I read recently. But as you say, unfortunately it's way to speculative for this place. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:42, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
::It's not in the series and has no sources and is wholly fanwank. I've rolled it back and await any sources. I can say that the Cylons are actually part of the ancient Matrix, but that doesn't make it true. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:45, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:::I'm well aware of that and said that it has no place here. I just think it's interesting nonetheless. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:48, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
::::Sorry, didn't mean to sound at all snappy there. I'm feeling a bit [[w:birthday|"''get off my lawn you crazy kids''"]] today and probably tomorrow. 8/ --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:50, 18 June 2007 (CDT)
:::::Hello, I am the one who wrote the original article. As for the information, I got the quoted portions from the wiki on the subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technological_singularity, which has multiple links to respected sources, especially http://www.kurzweilai.net/index.html?flash=1, which was where I first heard about the idea. If there is a specific way to write an article that includes respected sources, please let me know and I will consider writing one. As for it being "mainly theoretical" and "speculative," I would argue the "Background to FTL in the Re-imagined Series" article is just as speculative as no one in the series mentions the physics behind it. However, it did not stop someone on committing how FTL is scientifically plausible, thus showing how true to reality the show can be. I check this sight frequently and I am always disappointed that no one wrote about how the cylon "god" (or any "god") is scientifically plausible. In keeping with how true to reality the show can be, I thought it was appropriate to comment on how a "god" could actually exist in nBSG without relying on a supernatural basis or aliens.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 22:01, 21 June 2007 (CDT)
::::::For what it's worth, there was some concern about the FTL article as well, regarding its validity to the show. At least as far as the scientific speculation is concerned. And some articles are indeed more speculative than others, making some case-by-case decisions necessary. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how well you source your information here, as the problem is its connection to the show itself.
::::::I understand that you put some effort into this, and even basically agree with it, or appreciate it. But aside from a minimal note like "It's hasn't been established whether this God is supernatural or can be explained with scientific means", I don't see how we can use any of this. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 01:21, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
:::::::On the first point, philosophically, I do appreciate the FTL article and any article that adds more information to the show even if the show does not explicitly say it, so long as that information has a ''strong scientific'' backing. As the show holds so strongly to a tenant of expressing realism, I am sure its creators would incorporate any strong scientific concepts into their verse as they have with networking, nuclear arms, and AI, provided they had time to mention it.
:::::::As I read through the adjacent article on cylon religion, I was unable to find the source of your quotes, but regardless most of the articles on this site imply that the cylon god is a supernatural being. This article refers to the god as a "deity" and the article on cylon religion refers to it as a "metaphysical being." The latter term does support other definitions of the cylon’s god being more of an abstract concept or an idea rather than supernatural entity, but it still does not address the actual scientific plausibility of a "god" existing. Without a possible scientific explanation, readers will always walk away with the one-sided idea that the cylon god is and can only be a supernatural being, rather than something scientifically plausible as AI.
:::::::As for my intentions, I thought my writing was bad and wrote most of it off the cuff, thus I was not particularly proud of it. My main intention was to generate discussion on this topic and have its possibility mentioned in the article. ''Given the cylon's are strongly rooted in the topic of AI and the idea of a technological singularity branches off of that topic, I believe it is more than reasonable to at least mention it in this article''.
:::::::On a side note, please let me know if I should take my defenses personally to each member that criticizes my contributions rather than posting them here, as this page might become quite lengthy. And again, if you just demand better writing or sourcing, tell me exactly how (or refer me to the relevant section in the FAQ) and I will consider writing the article myself.--[[User:DuMan|DuMan]] 19:21, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
::::::::It's not the sourcing to external sites that's the problem, but the sourcing with the show. See what Spence wrote below. If you can back it up with some references to the episodes and quotes, though they will probably be somewhat indirect, good. I'd suggest that you don't worry about style for now, but produce a bullet point list of references from the show itself. Put it on your user page or maybe your talk page. Then we can see if we can really use it. If not, then we can always put in a small note without the speculation attached.
::::::::While lengthy talk pages are problematic too, splitting over discussion in several talk is really confusing. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 04:52, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

:I'd write it up as a separate article, and attach the following template: <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:Plausible speculation|Plausible speculation]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki>,<strike> <nowiki>{{Essay}}</nowiki></strike>. There is precedent; see [[Cyrannus (system)]]. It is an example of plausible, researched, cited speculation, clearly marked as such, and is worthwhile. Failing that, there is always your User space. [[User:JubalHarshaw|JubalHarshaw]] 19:11, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
::I agree. The debate on Cyrannus is as close to the edge of fandom-derived speculation that I'd care to see on the wiki. DuMan's research may be enlightening. A few points: Yes, please do use the {{tl|plausible speculation}} tag on such an article. Also, in keeping with the wiki's mission, making this an essay is not recommended. But, using links and citations from the episodes, DuMan and others can add plausible support for the theories he expressed earlier, discarding or disputing what does not agree with the Cylons as portrayed. The FTL article, by the way (and in my opinion) is supported by the principles ''displayed'' in the episodes. While not explained, the process of moving from the place to place (without change in relative velocity before or after) screams "wormhole" and is supported by Ron Moore's [[naturalistic science fiction]] guideline, "no moving violations" on true-faster-than-light travel. I think DuMan has his work cut out for him in linking episode events that connect his research with the show, but it will fun to see him try, and should make for a very interesting article once it's ready. The links ''have'' to be there for this to be an acceptable article per the wiki's canonical or licensed product mission, IMO. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 22:53, 22 June 2007 (CDT)
::That might work, if there can be a few references to back it up somewhat. We could also put it in [[Cylon Religion]]. That one talks more about religion in general and does already have an analysis section. This speculation might be more justifiable there than here. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 04:52, 23 June 2007 (CDT)

==Image==
I was wondering if perhaps we should change what could be considered the "main image" for the promotional picutre in which Gaius is shown looking religious with Number Six at his back.
[[Image:Cylon God.jpg|thumb|250px]]
I feel like this might best represent the article, given the association both characters have with the Cylon God and the specific representation in the picture. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:42, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
:Or Baltar praying from [[He That Believeth In Me]]? {{unsigned|OTW}}
:The picture at the top, is a reference to god though. The promo picture, while nice, is more about religion in general. But we could put it further down, and replace the "crucified Baltar" one with it. -- [[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 07:13, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Talk:God (RDM)/Archive 1

2008-06-19T15:53:15Z

Neakal:

Talk:God (RDM)/Archive 1

2008-06-19T15:52:21Z

Neakal: