Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:DRADIS/Archive 1

2006-11-26T10:15:26Z

Mustah: /* Rank */

I've always thought it was similar to the US Navy's [http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/systems/aegis.htm Aegis Mk VII] system. [[User:Panther|Panther]] 20:54, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

:There's a definite RDM blog answer that's about a sentence long and says it's a different word for radar.

:Something else is very similar to Aegis, though... I think it's in a battlestar article, probably a point-defense item for obvious reasons. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 01:06, 18 August 2006 (CDT)

It is stated that DRADIS stands for 'Direction RAnge and DIStance'.

Should it not be 'Direction RAnge Detection and Identification System' This still has the acronym DRADIS?

:I'd be happy to see a source for this term; I'd rather not make it up if RDM has the acronym down. He's normally not into this inane level of techno-fanboy detail, so we'll have to see. Better to keep this one to what we know. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:54, 23 Aug 2005 (EDT)0

::Agreed, FWIW. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:43, 23 Aug 2005 (EDT):

:: We need a definite and official source for what this term means. Personally, I don't believe that it is well defined, if at all. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 20:30, 23 Aug 2005 (EDT)

It adds nothing to the debate :), but when i heard the anacronym '''DRADIS''', i instantly though "oh cool, thats '''D'''irection, '''R'''ange '''A'''n'''D''' '''I'''dentification '''S'''ystem ...good to see someone is thinking hard about all the little stuff"

To me it makes sense for it to mean this...remember the first few eps of ST didnt have Starfleet, but the United Earth Space Probe Agency or some such....ID it is! Hooray! :) And i'd write it as Dradis..like Radar..the caps dissapear after a while :) --[[User:Simmons|Simmons]] 07:36, 1 February 2006 (EST)Simmons

"Range" and "Distance" are indeed redundant in their most common sense, but in space, a system like this would be pretty much pointless if it didn't provide directional information in ''two'' axes, as well as the distance. Even without a useful expansion of the acronym, it should be abundantly clear that these would be the three values present in the reading for a single DRADIS contact. -- [[User:Cmr|Cmr]]

:Indeed, Gaeta has given three-value coordinates when it's been relevant — in Act of Contrition and Resistance.

:Just an interesting note - Bearing and Carom are clearly not measured in degrees. We've seen bearings up to 881 (Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down) and caroms up 552 (Flight of the Phoenix). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:38, 5 January 2006 (EST)

:: Another interesting note - The Army in its land navigation uses a method of measurement called the mil [[http://www.survivaliq.com/navigation/direction_par1.htm]] which breaks a circle up into 6400 parts rather than 360. That may explain the higher numbers quoted. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 15:01, 19 January 2006 (EST)

:"Range" and "distance" are still synonyms in 3 dimensions. Yes, there are 3 numbers for spherical coordinates, but '''2''' of them are direction; the other one is range (and distance, since they're the same thing). --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 23:29, 5 January 2006 (EST)

::I understood your point the first time, and wasn't trying to contradict it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:39, 5 January 2006 (EST)

:::If you're addressing me, I'm somewhat confused. I don't recall saying that before, and I was responding to Cmr. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 00:07, 6 January 2006 (EST)

:: my point is just that this article can describe what DRADIS measures, and how, without expanding the acronym. is the early teleplay manuscript the only source for Direction, RAnge, and DIStance? if so, it seems like this is, at best, something less than canonical. [[User:Cmr|Cmr]] 17:35, 15 January 2006 (EST)

::Another (possibly unhelpful) speculation. DRADIS might be expanded usefully to 'Direction RAdius and DIStance.' This would provide the bearing to target (in three-space), the distance to target, and the radius (radians?) of the target at that distance - either the equivalent of the radar cross-section or signal strength, or perhaps some other actual size measurement which could be used to determine the target's identity? --[[User:sierran|sierran]] 12:35, 21 February 2006 (EST)

:::I think that sierran is closest: I believe it's either (Direction, RAdial, DIStance) or (Direction, RAdian, DIStance). I'm not sure of the origin of the original interpretation, but if it's not from quotable dialog, it's probably incorrect. Spherical coordinate systems require three values, but different names are used in various contexts: (radial, azimuth, polar), (radial, azimuth, zenith), (range, azimuth, elevation). In the first two sets, "radial" is the distance from the point of origin, but a radial pattern is a one that appears to originate at a point, like spokes in a wheel. A scriptwriter could easily substitute RAdial into an acronym, without realizing it is technically incorrect. Substitute DIrection for azimuth and DIStance for range, and it yields what I think is the intended derivation. Alternatively, RAdian is a unit of plane angle. Although both azimuth and elevation can be expressed in radians, perhaps a scriptwriter chose it for elevation because it created an acronym that sounded cool. --[[User:ptb|ptb]] 11:49, 12 March 2006 (CST)

:I have a WAY WAY '''WAY''' better definition for the DRADIS acronym. Get this. Get this, it's awesome. You ready? Check this out: Direction RAnge DISplacement. "Displacement" is commonly used in Naval terms to describe the amount of water mass "displaced" by a ship. Displacement could easilly be co-opted for this sort of "Space Navy" mentality to be used to define the size of ships on DRADIS. Notice that DRADIS '''does''' make a distinction between the small vessels and the capital ships. Obviously it's more than a direction/distance calculation. So what do you think? Direction RAnge DISplacement? Eh? Eh? I think it's high quality. --[[User:Trajan|Trajan]] 21:47, 26 October 2006 (CST)

:Range and Distance could refer to different measures in curved space-time or at relativistic speeds. So perhaps it locates targets in three out of four space-time dimensions, but not the three space dimensions at the same time. The display is clearly two-dimensional, with a sweeping arc to show the locus it is scanning at a given moment. It may not be able to differentiate positions within this arc. Perhaps it requires more than one DRADIS dish to accurately locate a target in three dimensions? This is equivalent to Earth radar, which can build a picture in two dimensions by scanning in one dimension. There's no reason to assume that the Colonials are not working around their own technical limitations. -- [[User:Mauve|Mauve]] 05:26, 16 November 2006 (CST)

::It's better to keep this simple, folks. An episode already shows the abbreviations that confirm the acronym's source; anything else is [[BW:FANW|fan-generated content and over-speculation]]. Don't get me wrong; both thoughts have technical merit that makes some sense. However, neither are backed up by aired content and, in fact, seem to contradict what little we know. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:21, 16 November 2006 (CST)

:I read somewhere that it was Direction and RAdial Distance. That makes far more sense than what is in the article right now. The graphic that we see in the series shows a revolving arc, which would indicate that Radial Distance is more likely, not Direction, RAnge, DIStance. By the way, the "transcript" that is cited in the footnote is merely a fan-compiled transcript. It is not an official transcript so it should not be used as the source for the acronym's meaning. --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 08:34, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==Radar==
Spencerian, why did you revert Wingsandsword's note about the "radar" reference in "The Hand of God"? The dialogue in question goes like this:

:'''Thrace:''' The decoy ships will jump into the enemy star system at extreme radar range from the Cylon asteroid. Galactica will jump here, close enough to launch its Vipers at the base.
--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:07, 10 January 2006 (EST)

: There has been some healthy discussion of this point on my talk page, and for the record it is at 11:53 into the episode, and her exact line is what Peter Farago said it was. It's also on the closed captioning. It's likely to be a goof, but it could be interpreted that "radar" is a slang or mostly-disused term for the more technically accurate Dradis. --[[User:Wingsandsword|Wingsandsword]] 14:37, 10 January 2006 (EST)
::Her "exact line" is still subject to debate: DVD subtitles aren't always reliable, and when I saw it again on my DVD it ''sounded'' like she said "Raider", not radar. "Radar" probably isn't a slang term because I think they're more careful about these things and that it is not, indeed a goof. Others please rewatch this scene. I'm not exact on how ''all'' DVD subtitles are made, but on many I've had in the past they were really just made by people that watched the episode writing down dialog, rather than on a script of some form. They aren't really reliable. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:06, 10 January 2006 (EST)

:::It doesn't make sense for her to say "Raider range". Raiders have FTL and therefore have a massively larger range than Vipers. -- [[User:Mauve|Mauve]] 05:26, 16 November 2006 (CST)

: What if RADAR is one component of DRADIS? Suppose that DRADIS comprises a host of detection systems (RADAR, IR, UV, MAD, etc.) all linked into one system and accessed from one console?--Axeman

::As I have stated numerous times, in context, she could have been saying "Raider range". There's a burden of proof there, a shaodw of a doubt if you will, and she kind of slurrs it; doesn't sound quite like she's saying "Radar". I think our current thing is fine: making a note that we think she said Radar, but that she could have said "Raider". This is, of course, distinct from the horrible "Black Market" in which amongst other failures they call fumarellos "cigars". --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:19, 29 January 2006 (EST)

:::That wasn't an error. Cigars have never been called Fumarellos in RDM. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:03, 29 January 2006 (EST)
::::There seems to be a lot of contention over this point. Can someone find a specific reference where they were or weren't called cigars or fumarellos? --[[User:BMS|BMS]] 15:09, 29 January 2006 (EST)
:::::Actually I was just using that as an example; Peter and I are actually leaning towards the position that they were ALWAYS called "Cigars" but "tobacco" is "fumarello leaf" here.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:32, 29 January 2006 (EST)

Just a comment - Astronomy uses a coordinate system that uses Declination and Right Ascension to pinpoint astral bodies. If you include distance, you now have a system that you can use to determine another objects position in space *relative to you* (if I call my "up" north, then I can place everything by how many degrees "north" (or by using negative numbers how far "south") it is, how many degrees "right" (or "left") it is, and how far away from me it is)

==Name?==

Should the name of this article be all caps, or is there a naming convention in place that restrits all caps in an article title? [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 16:41, 20 January 2006 (EST)
:Possible, but generally it looks a bit garrish and we don't know the acronym fully. Besides, do you ''always'' write out radio as "RADIO"? It's a portmaneau, not a full acronym. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 16:49, 20 January 2006 (EST)
:: I agree, but throughout the article and other articles, DRADIS is capitalized. I was only suggesting it in order to make it more uniform. I'll defer to the majority though. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 16:52, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:::The capitalization is because DRADIS is an acronym, like RADAR or LASER or NASA. Usage for these terms have dropped the capitalization down to where the acronym becomes a word except for NASA. DRADIS isn't there yet in my mind. On the other hand, if I see it without capitalization, I don't change it unless it looks aesthetically wrong. Acronyms should be capitalized unless there is a wiki convention that says otherwise. For wiki's sake, keeping it not capitalized (particularly as the article name) prevents weirdness. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:34, 20 January 2006 (EST)

:::: To bring this subject back up, the first thing I thought of when seeing this article was that it wasnt in capitals. You are right in that people casually dont say RADAR in capitals when writing because it one of the exceptions to the rule. The word "Radar" is now officially in the English language as a standard word, theorfor losing the capitalisation in the process. Laser is also another example of an acronym adopted as an official word. Radio as far as i know was never an acronym? It seems to me that an acronym only loses its capitalisation when it becomes an official word (radar, laser, scuba etc) and when its not all letters are in capitals (ICBM, LCD, AIDS etc) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 06:01, 3 April 2006 (CDT)

==Rank==

In the last frame before the opening credits in "Pegasus" the Dradis icon for the ''Pegasus'' is shown with two stars next to it. I assume these denote the rank of the flag officer (Admiral Cain) aboard. Is this worth including? [[User:Jagaroth|Jagaroth]] 05:08, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

:Maybe. Is there a DRADIS shot of what ''Galactica'' looked like on ''Pegasus'' DRADIS? If there isn't any special marking for Adama (of Commander rank then), we'll know that DRADIS can be configured to indicate battlestars with flag officers, as Cain was. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:26, 13 September 2006 (CDT)

::I think the second picture on the page is the view from ''Pegasus'' to ''Galactica'' because ''Galactica'' is in mid-field on the display rather than being the source (at the bottom). I'll check later. To confirm we'd need a shot of an external DRADIS after Adama gets promoted. [[User:Jagaroth|Jagaroth]] 03:57, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
:::I attached the pics together, the other one is Galactica from Pegasus and there is no stars next to the Big-G. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 04:43, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
::DRADIS symbology for various Colonial Fleet units are different.civilian ship symbols show min 5 type of civilian ship(except adriatic symbol) military ship symbols except battlestars. Circle (shield) in circle area points (weapons)outside of circle trace(engines or wings)
Adriatick only symbol two points in circle(weapon)--[[User:mustah|mustah]]

Talk:Hero/Archive2

2006-11-25T18:33:40Z

Mustah: /* Three's Opera house Scene */

== Can We compare Adama to President George....Washington? :) ==
I was reading the quote from Eick, "...Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies." and for some reason I felt that thie reminded me of Gorge Washington long before we was president or even commander-in-chief when, before the 7-Years-War, Washington was involved in a skirmish with the French over Fort Necessity, aka Pittsburgh (yes, we fought a battle for that city) that led to Washington signing a treaty stating, unbeknownst to him because he couldn't speak French and his interpreter sucked, that he committed attrocities against France in the name of the British Empire. This, according to many historians, led to the 7 Years War, known in America as the French and Indian War, that would decimate Northern Germany. I'm sure Washington at some level had to be aware of this error on his part and led him to remorse I imagine. Anyways, the story is different but I was wondering how many parallels there will be, if there will be, in this episode to Washington's conundrum. I wanted to ask a question on the article page but couldn't concise it enough for wiki standards. I may ask on the scifi bboard but input on this would be appreciated before I do. --[[User:StrayCat0|StrayCat0]] 19:42, 3 August 2006 (PST)
:That's an interesting analogy, showing a fine attention to historical detail. I think the parallel has minor flaws, though, since Washington's conduct in that matter isn't generally considered morally wrong so much as foolish. [[Wikipedia:Gavrilo Princip|Gavrilo Princip]] might be worth considering as a parallel; he was the immediate but not ultimate cause of a devastating war, and he precipitated the conflict by attacking his fellow countryman, thinking it justified in contrast to the general consensus. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 02:28, 4 August 2006 (CDT)

:: It's unlikely that Adama's actions are quite the transgression that he believes it to be; after all, the [[cylon agent|Cylons had been violating the armistice line]] for about a half a year prior to Adama's, anyway.[[User:TaKometer|TaKometer]] 02:09, 18 November 2006 (CST)

::: I was wondering about the timeline as well. I think Adama says somthing like, the mission was a year before the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|attack]], but the cylons had been planning the attack for two years. However, I think there is an error in the timeline. Adama also says he served with Boomer for two years, and I think he implied that it was on Galactica. Gaeta also says that he served with Adama for three years. It is possible that Gaeta was on the Valkyrie for a year, but I think the mission happened about two years before the attack, not just one. I will rewatch the episode, but do you have any ideas? [[User:Jrmurph|Jrmurph]] 12:21, 18 November 2006 (EST)
:::: I think there is an inconsistency in the story. It is not unexplainable, ie Gaeta and Boomer served with Adama on the Valkyrie, but it did seem like nobody other than Adama or Tigh recognized Bulldog so the timeline is a little esquew. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:01, 18 November 2006 (CST)

Does anybody think it's strange that Adama believes it better to fire a weapon ACROSS the Armistice Line, INTO Cylon space, as opposed to allowing Novacek's ship to be discovered? A ship that close to the line could easily have been explained away as having strayed off course... but an offensive weapon fired into their space? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 01:54, 25 November 2006 (CST)

== Another Battlestar? ==
There is a spoiler image showing Adm Adama and Col Tigh in the CIC of the Battlestar Valkerie. I zoomed in on Adama and saw he had his Admiral's pins on. Might this be a sign that they soon will find yet another Battlestar? [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:24, 15 November 2006 (CST)
: It's a flashback scene. It may be more of a costuming error. Note that Tigh still has his eye in that promo shot. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 01:39, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:: Right. Two eyed Tigh. Darn. I was hoping they'd find another Battlestar cause I do miss the Pegasus. It was bigger, much cooler and the doors made this cool "beep" when they opened. [[User:Bstone|Bstone]] 01:50, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::You can visit [[Valkyrie]] as well. It's a spoiler until Friday but you can adjust it with some new data later. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:36, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::It's true, I saw the Admiral pips as well, the flashback should have been Commander pips; as the Stealth ship incident occurred three years ago. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 22:56, 17 November 2006 (CST)
: The Valkerie looked to be a Mercury class Battlestar. This would make sense because the galactica class was an older ship and has been all but replaced with the newer bigger and more efficent Mercury class.--[[User:Mike|Mike]] 09:30, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It's definately not a Mercury, the only part really similar is the engine block. If anything, it looked most like a reimagining of the original series battlestar, down to the rectangular opening in the flightpod and the angular head. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:47, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::Inside it looks like a Mercury yes. That's a sign of its age. But outside, it's far smaller than a full-sized battlestar. Look at the gun battery on the top. There's only one and almost covers the width of the ship there. See the Valkyrie page for more details (where this discussion should take place), but I think it's basically a smaller battlestar meant for support duties. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:52, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:: Not disagreeing with your main point, but its quite possible that there were far more Battlestar classes than just the "Cylon War Type" and the Mecurcy class, given that the colonies built up a fleet of arround 120 Battlestars over about 50 years, particularly as the Viper apparently went through 5 different itterations over this time, although we are likely never going to see the intervening versions of either type --[[User:Useless|Useless]] 09:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

== Barry Kennedy as Admiral Corman ==

Hey all, I was just checking on Barry Kennedy's link, and it links to an IMDB page other than his profile page detailing his filmography, and etc. [[User:SimsHsia|SimsHsia]] 23:52, 17 November 2006 (CST)
:That's because some people keep forgeting the "nm" when entering imdb numbers and in that case the link default to title instead of actor --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:53, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The Stealth-Star==
hey i just noticed this but the name of the ship was the stealth star so someone(not me)should create it a page. Best Snorkel378
:Already done [[Stealth Star]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 09:41, 18 November 2006 (CST)

==The scene with Baltar, Six and Three in bed==
it says on there that 3 is having a sexual realationship with baltar and six?
Cylons arent lesbos i think they were having a 3some {{unsigned|Snorkel378}}
:You are assuming that the Six we see is Caprica-Six and not Baltar's internal Six. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 20:49, 18 November 2006 (CST)
::It would be an odd choice cinematically to have Three wake up from a dream and show us something from inside Baltar's head. {{unsigned|Wldkt1}}
:::Please remembe rto sign your posts on talk pages guys <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:05, 19 November 2006 (CST)
The fact that Baltar and Six are in a 'clutch' position makes it unlikely that it's his internal Six. Three would have noticed Baltar trying to hug thin air in his sleep. Baltar is also in the center of the bed, rather than on one side. In addition, Caprica seems to be aware of (and approves) Three's new interest in Baltar. Regarding the possibility of a relationship between Three and Six: that is only speculation, but just because we haven't seen a lesbian relationship between cylons doesn't mean one isn't possible.[[User:Dallan007|Dallan007]] 22:18, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:It could be that Caprica-Six sees this as a way to weaken Baltar--after all, the formula for getting Baltar to give up secrets seems pretty clear: get in his bed, get in his head, so to speak. Remember that during the torture in previous episodes, he said to Three, "I love you with all of my heart." That's what started the relationship, so I think Three is interested in Baltar for whatever reason, not necessarily Six. Plus, on a more humorous note...I have to wonder if the Cylons have any sexual relations amongst themselves at all. This could be one deprived Cylon... [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:24, 20 November 2006 (CST)
Speculation on Cylon sexual orientation aside, I think we all can agree that Baltar is one lucky sonofabitch. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:28, 21 November 2006 (CST)
:weell, if put aside the whole electro-shock thing and the drilling in the ear thing. Face it, Baltar had to work hard for that threesome.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 09:47, 21 November 2006 (CST)
::Well, yes, he did work hard for it, but doesn't everyone work hard for a threesome? --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 17:53, 21 November 2006 (CST)
A threesome with Six and Three would be cool, but personally, I think a threesome with two Eights would be awesome, and far better. But that's because the Eights are my favorites [[User:NickScryer|NickScryer]] 22:02, 21 November 2006 (CST)
:Personally, I find Lucy Lawless and Tricia Helfer to be hotter than Grace Park. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 17:50, 22 November 2006 (CST)

==The Black Ops Mission==
Does anyone think that the entire mission was poorly concieved? First, the Colonials jump a Battlestar to very close range of the armistice line, which one would expect to attract attention in and of itself. Second, we see the ''Valkyrie'' track the S-Star after launch and over the line. This either means the Valkyrie tracked it directly on DRADIS, which indicates it's not much of a stealth ship and that the Cylons should be able to detect it as well, or the S-Star has some sort of transponder reporting its position, which is also something the Cylons should detect. Finally, as referenced in the main article, the S-Star maintains radio contact with the ''Valkyrie'' throughout the whole mission, again something the Cylons should be able to detect. Would the writers have really overlooked all this, or are we meant to conclude that the Admriality meant for the mission to have been discovered by the Cylons? --[[User:Cleophus|Cleophus]] 22:55, 18 November 2006 (CST)

:-The mission is quite similar to the United States' U2 overflights during the late 1950's and 60's. Certain similarities between the depicted incident and the [[:wikipedia:U-2 Crisis of 1960|incident involving Francis Gary Powers]] can be read. It also conjures up several dozen observation flights by aircraft such as specially outfitted C-130's flying perilously close to a boundary line — even going so far as to slip a wingtip across it to "call a bluff". Also, there's the incident involving the Chinese Gai-8 fighter and the US P-3 Orion.
:In the case of our Colonials here, the stealth craft is more than likely equipped with an "odd frequency" (either very low or very high), encrypted transponder that transmits on a specific wavelength, only for IFF purposes. If I recall correctly, F-117 Nighthawks can still use their radios when on ops (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). I suspect that this mission was proposed in order to get a glimpse into ''any'' Cylon activity. The stealth craft would be dangled out as a tiny bit of bait – just enough to get a response. Its stealth characteristics would increase its ability to dash back across the Armistice Line untracked and unaffected, and then ''Valkyrie'' would be able to observe and record the arriving Cylons. If questions were raised ("What are you doing here?" ... "Good question, what are ''you'' doing here?" ... "We detected you over the Armistice Line." ... "Who, us? Noooo... We've been on our side this whole time, just trolling about, watching over our miners over there on that moon there. So why are you here again? You don't mind if we take some photos of you while you're here, do you?"), the Colonials would feign ignorance and innocence, but they'd at least have a response... something that the Cylons haven't even projected in thirty-plus years. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:--Is it possible that the Stealth Star was shot down by a Colonial Force in hopes that it would percipitate a conflict? Similar to the Gulf of Tonkin? This way the Colonials can say one of their ships got lost and was destroyed by the Cylons in cold blood (Or something along those lines). Also, it makes no sense a ship would jump in, shoot the S-Star, and jump out. Why wouldnt it commit to killin the S-Star? --[[User:Skrip00|Skrip00]] 16:31, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:: Perhaps. We don't know either way. To be honest, after some seriously critical thought about it on my part, there's really not much of it that makes sense, since it was poorly explained in the episode. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 16:55, 20 November 2006 (CST)

==Folks in White Robes==
Aren't there five white-robed figures in Number Three's vision? It's pretty speculative, but maybe these are meant to represent the five missing Cylon models (maybe they've undergone some kind of transcendence, and are "with God now" or something). Maybe the article should note this (after all, the white-robes show up for the first time just a couple episodes after we first learn that there's definitely something different or mysterious about the five missing models), though I don't know the proper section for it. {{unsigned|Steve}}

:- I noticed that too, but was going to "acquire" the episode and re-watch that part, or watch it again on Monday to see... I _think_ there are five humanoid figures in white robes, kneeling or seated in that semi-circle when Three walks amongst them. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 11:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:Three's in the opera house on Kobol where Baltar's internal Six shows him Hera's cradle; I believe those are the same white drapes that can be seen on the opera house stage in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 11:38, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::Well I agree she's in the opera house from KLG, but I don't think I'm referring to the drapes. In the initial shot of the opera house, there seem to be five glowing figures standing between the six white drapes. Some of the quick shots of the opera house that follow show these figures, and some do not (as though they are alternately hiding and revealing themselves). At the end of her experience, Three approaches and reaches out to one of these figures just before she is resurrected. --[[User:Steve|Steve]] 02:50, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:::Sorry, you're right. I watched the episode again and noticed them. (Don't know why I missed them the first time, I was watching on a huge HDTV then!) I have a feeling that in the next few episodes, Three is going to keep having "accidental" deaths, and we'll see these figure again. --[[User:Noindiecred|Noindiecred]] 20:26, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:::: Here's an iTunes [[:Image:3x8-Hero-MaybeTheLast5Cylons.jpg | screencap]]. 5 remaining cylons, 5 robed figures. Hmmmmm... --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 22:12, 24 November 2006 (CST)

== Reference to Raising Arizona? ==

I'm new here, so I didn't want to jump right into the thick of things by adding this to the main page before running it by other people...when Adama and Novacek are sitting down for the first time, Adama asks him something like "How did you escape, Bulldog?". Novacek rambles for a little bit (again, I don't remember exact words) but wraps up with "I felt the facility no longer had anything to offer me...". If I'm not mistaken, this is a reference to Raising Arizona--John Goodman's character says just about the exact same thing after he breaks out of prison. I can't seem to find the line on IMDB or Wikiquote, though... {{unsigned|MikeDanger}}
:Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:08, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:As far as I remember "Raising Arizona", the dialogue goes like this: 
:''- You busted outta jail?'' 
:''- No, ma'am. We released ourselves on our own recognizance.'' 
:''- What Evelle is tryin' to say is we felt the institution no longer had anything to offer us.'' -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 08:28, 19 November 2006 (CST)

== Insight into Cylon plan ==
If the Cylons know where the Colonials are, or at least know well enough to send Bulldog at them, it's common sense to ask, why don't they just attack? Well, maybe their goal isn't to destroy Galactica et al outright but something more complex. One thing that does seem consistent with their plan is their desire to kill Adama, perhaps because they want to send the fleet into disarray without him at the top. Examples: Leoben telling Roslin that Adama's a Cylon in Flesh and Blood, Boomer shooting Adama repeatedly in Kobol's Last Gleaming Pt. II. There may be more examples that I can't think of right now.

People have been crying out "plot hole!" with reckless abandon in light of Bulldog's ability to pinpoint Galactica's position, but if the Cylon plan really is as simple as ''kill all humans,'' as these detractors might claim, then much of the show falls apart. The reality is, we don't really know the Cylon plan, and at this point, there's really no reason to jump to the conclusion that the writers are just too lazy to think of one. [[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 18:22, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:The Cylons might know full well where the Colonials are but if they jumped in a couple of Basestars then the fleet would zip out of there pretty sharpish and might go somewhere where the Cylons dont know and they will have to find them all over again. IMO, their plan is a long game. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 19:17, 19 November 2006 (CST)
:IMHO, "Hero" is the weakest episode of the series yet. There's just too many logic errors for me to dismiss as part of the "suspension of disbelief" process. For instance, how does Bulldog have the time to learn how to pilot a Cylon raider, when Starbuck took hours to figure out how to operate the thing? Also, how would Bulldog be able to operate the FTL drive -- Kobol's Last Gleaming pretty much made it clear that the FTL drive needed an actual computer, given that the brain had to be ripped out in order for it to be piloted manually. But that's another not so fine mess.
: As for the Cylon plans, well, they're clearly compliated and seem to be changing since the attack. Whether or not this is by design has yet to be detrmined, though I sincerely doubt that the writer's have this thing all planned out a la ''Babylon 5''. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:30, 19 November 2006 (CST)

::Yeah, I know what you're saying. I also doubt it's all planned out B5-style (hasn't Ron basically said something to that effect anyway, like how much they enjoy making it up as they go along?), but that doesn't mean it necessarily can't all add up in the end, and we should assume that they ''do'' know what they are doing until they are proven wrong.

::Also, a lot of people have been talking about how unrealistic it is for Bulldog to have learned how to operate the raider in such a short time. I'm not trying to start an arguement about this, but I don't actually remember them saying that he had only a short time to learn how to use the raider. Are you guys just assuming that he had to learn it all quickly based on the rushed nature of his escape? Is there a reason he couldn't have actually had a few hours to do it? I mean, if they let him escape, then he could have been in the basestar hangar for hours trying to work the controls while they watched (and snickered) from behind the glass. --[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 23:59, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:I agree that a lot of people have seemed predisposed to cry foul lately--I can understand how the scientific goofs in "A Measure of Salvation" could've set people on edge--but I do think it's possible that if the Cylons are operating under a religious motivation, that their plan does go beyond a simple "kill all humans" approach. They may see the need to exact specific steps of revenge/torture against humanity, perhaps a particular punishment for each perceived offense. That's just one possibility, but it could well be they have the death of a thousand cuts in mind for the remnants of humanity. I think Drumstick's probably on to something here. Or you know, if they wanted Bulldog to escape, they could have trained a Raider (which wasn't injured like Starbuck's) to understand and obey his commands or even set it up with an interface that a human could use. Until we see proof or disproof of all the different theories, I think it's too early to try to claim BsG has jumped the shark or anything similar. I also have to wonder if anybody here has writing experience with writing a full-length work. I am working on my first novel, and keeping total, perfect consistency is not easy and while I tend to get the big things right, I am still finding a lot of subtle things that need tweaking, and this despite my best efforts. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:17, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:As an aside wrt the Cylon plan, Browndog's question from the Episode page:
::''Does the fact that Adama was potentialy responsible for starting the war explain why Galactica was important enougth to have 2 out of 12 human cylons on board during the start of the mini-series??--Browndog 14:17, 23 November 2006 (CST)''
:I think that it's plausable considering the roles that Boomer and Doral were playing at the time that their both being on Galactica at the time of the Attack is simply a coincidence. Short of conspiracy within the Fellt Boomer is asigned where she's needed, and Doral's position as a civil servant would have been a good cover for a Cylon spy.--[[User:Whytwolf|Whyte Wolf]] 20:01, 23 November 2006 (CST)

== Possible Discontinuity ==
According to the episode, Adama and friends served on the Valkyrie a year before the attacks. This implies that Adama was only commander of the Galactica for a year before the miniseries. Yet on the Kara Thrace article, it states that Thrace "resigned from flight school as a instructor and transferred as an operational pilot aboard battlestar Galactica under the command of William Adama, where she served for some '''two years prior to the Cylon attack''' on the Twelve Colonies." They can't both be right.

Also, from the Tyrol article: "He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including Columbia, Atlantia, and Pegasus (Resistance). He has served under William Adama on Galactica for five years (Litmus)." If he served under Adama for 5 years, why didn't he mention the Valkyrie when he was being intimidated by Tigh in Resistance? This could be simply because Tigh would have known that.--[[User:Drumstick|Drumstick]] 22:16, 19 November 2006 (CST)

:No, your first impulse is correct - it's quite certainly an error.
:'''Gaeta:''' And... may I take this opportunity to say that it's been both a pleasure and an honour to serve under you [Adama], these past three years. ([[Miniseries]])
:'''Adama:''' We [Thrace and I] talked about a lot of things. We've been aboard this ship for over two years, we know each other very well. ([[Act of Contrition]])
:'''Adama:''' She [Valerii] was more than that to us. She was more than that to me. She was a vital, living person... aboard my ship for almost two years. She couldn’t have been just a machine. Could you love a machine? ([[The Farm]])
:Also, note that the timeline in Adama's dossier (which seems to be accurate based on other data points) puts his transfer to ''Galactica'' at six years prior to the miniseries.
:--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:48, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It is quite possible that this is not an error ''per se''. Adama and some of his command staff could easily have been assigned to the more modern Valkyrie from Galactica for the mission. It wouldn't make much sense to send "the bucket" on a stealth mission anyway. Notice Valkyrie seemed smaller and was probably more modernized, which would make it all the better for that type of mission. So Adama could easily have been in command of Galactica for several years prior, been offered command of Valkyrie as a reward, for career advancement or just for the mission... and have been pushed back to Galactica when the mission failed. Certainly the plan to decommission Galactica was in the works for some time, and they would not want one of their good commanders to retire with the ship... until after the mission where he failed. None of the characters would be expected to say "I served under Adama for some years, and some other guy for a couple of months, then Adama again." They would just say they served with him for X number of years. If we compare to the modern US Navy, this sort of thing is not all the uncommon.--[[User:Xealot|Xealot]] 10:22, 20 November 2006 (CST)
:::The dossier's progression from XO of ''Columbia'' to Commander of ''Valkyrie'' to Commander of ''Galactica'' seems to indicate that ''Valkyrie'' was his first battlestar command. Though I agree that the serve under "X years" would fly if they stayed under him. It's just the "this ship"'s that start biting them. (When they specify the ship instead of the command.) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:53, 20 November 2006 (CST)

::It's really embarassing in continuity. If they had put the entire affair a few years further into the past, it would have made much more sense not only in Adamas biography, but also in the overall plot. Boomer served on ''Galactica'' for two years and probably spend some additional time at flight school, so Adama must know the Cylon infiltration started long before the Stealth-Star incident. This should really get Adama to ask himself how long the attack had been planned, though he might convince himself that the Cylons put their infiltrators in place just as a precaution and his actions led to their decision to actually use them. A few years more time between the attack and the incident would put the estimated start of Cylon infiltration (which actually could be anywhere between 2 and 20 years before the attack) around the same time, giving Adama a far more powerful reason to believe that he started it right there. I would like to think that putting the incident one year before attack was just an accident, but then it would probably become even more difficult to explain how Bulldog survived that long.

::Another point that's problematic: did ''Valkyrie'' have an integrated computer-network? Up to this episode all information we had suggested that all battlestars save ''Galactica'' had them and that it was Adamas position of ''no network on my ship'' that prevented an upgrade.

::*If ''Valkyrie'' had a network Adamas politics of ''it's all hand on here'' are somewhat harder to believe. Up to now it looked like the position of a war-veteran who opposed networks on principle, this is harder to believe if he already commanded a ship with such a network.

::*If there was no network on ''Valkyrie'', then why wasn't there one? It appears extremely unlikely that the networks were all installed in the time between the incident and the attack, though the decision cannot have been made to long before Adama took command of ''Galactica'', because the previous commander would probably have had it installed. And given that it must have been a major decision to put networks on battlestars once more it's hard to believe that the Admirality would allow commanders to pull the plug on it as they see fit. I can imagine Adamas opposition being tolerated on ''Galactica'', because it was an old battlestar nearing it's decommissioning with a design that may have been especially hard to upgrade (regardless of Gaetas patchwork in [[Scattered]]). They could have simply decided that it was not worth the effort to force Adama to accept the upgrade. But that would be hard to believe for ''Valkyrie'', if you are sending a battlestar on such a sensitive mission you want it at maximum performance. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 14:49, 20 November 2006 (CST)

:::The network thing isn't hugely problematic. We have no notion of how old ''Valkyrie'' was. ''Atlantia'' was at least 17 years old at the time of the attack (based on Adama's dossier), and was still worthy to serve as Nagala's flagship in the Miniseries. ''Galactica'' was even older. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:44, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:Adama's dossier may or may not help matters. If the screencap interpretation in the article is correct, then it is currently 21356 - based on the 45th anniversary of Adama's commissioning - which is consistent with what we know about Colonial Day and the Armistice. Therefore the Fall of the Colonies occurred in 21354, and that means the Valkyrie incident occurred in 21353 or thereabouts. However, the dossier goes on to state that Adama took command of Valkyrie in 21345, and Galactica in 21348. If the dossier is correct, then the Valkyrie incident had to take place in 21347 or 21348...which means that Adama's "graceful retirement" lasted for 6 years until the Fall. If this timeline is correct, then it basically blows all the dialogue in this episode out of the water, but validates everything we've seen and heard in the first two seasons. Of course, this is all contingent on the dossier being correctly interpreted - and I personally cannot make out the last two dates on screen. --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 19:55, 21 November 2006 (CST)

::That was the conclusion we came to above. The Dossier is [[:image:dossier.png|entirely legible]] and is visible on screen for over sixty frames. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:31, 21 November 2006 (CST)

:::I missed that part. That image is a lot clearer than the screenshot I had, as well. --[[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 10:24, 22 November 2006 (CST)

== Cylon detector problems ==

There's some inconsistency with the "Cylon Detector" that Doc Cottle used to determine that Bulldog was a human. First of all, if you look at the screen caps, [http://galacticabbs.com/index.php?act=module&module=gallery&cmd=si&img=56612|like this one], you can see that the screen says "-RESULTS NEGATIVE-" If he was testing the DNA against their military records, it should say "-RESULTS POSITIVE-" If it's negative, the DNA doesn't match. That, or it's supposed to be a Cylon Detector, and it's saying that he's not a Cylon. It seems like it could be a simple goof between dialogue and props.

However, going along with the DNA reasoning... that doesn't necessarily prove anything, does it? If they tested Boomer's DNA against the DNA they have on record for her, I assume it's going to match, since they probably took Cylon DNA initially. Who's to say that the same thing didn't happen to Bulldog? In that case, his DNA would match, but he'd be a Cylon. Seems like a poor determiner of race, that's all. I don't think that he's necessarily a Cylon, just that this is another "oops."

--It might prove something...if the Colonials have DNA records going all the way back to a person's birth. If they're matching against that kind of original record (heck, maybe they even have the parents' records, too), then that may well constitute proof. [[User:Rose Immortal|Rose Immortal]] 13:06, 20 November 2006 (CST)

== Moved content ==

Folks, stuff like this needs to be removed (or reworded) on sight. Right now, this document reads a bit like it's arguing with itself. Before adding content that seems to contradict itself, please discuss it on the talk page -- that's what this feature is for.

Below, here's what I've removed thus far from the article that contradicts itself. Stuff like this, ''again'', must be hashed out on talk pages before entering the main article space. Thank you. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 11:52, 20 November 2006 (CST)

=== Removed content ===

*[[Dualla]] apparently served on the Valkyrie; she can be seen in the background standing behind Adama and Tigh in the flashback scenes.
**That person in the scene is most likley not Dualla; it's not easy to see because the flashback-scenes in the CIC have (deliberatly) not the best quality.

== Adama's Dossier ==
I feel that the dossier info should be moved to its own article. It really isn't a "standard" part of an episode article. Or if there is enough room for it in [[William Adama]], maybe move it to that article. A lot of room dedicated to what is pretty much a sidenote for the events that occur in the episode itself. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 13:17, 24 November 2006 (CST)
: I agree. The best place for it is in the [[William Adama]] article, in my view. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:03, 24 November 2006 (CST)
:: How about putting the dossier info in [[William Adama]] and the details of the analysis about dates into [[Timeline (RDM)]]? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 12:13, 25 November 2006 (CST)

== Bullsh*t ==
In the iTunes download, Adama said "bullshit attitude" to Bulldog. In the SciFi version, it was bleeped out, was it not?
:What time count? I'll check --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 13:28, 24 November 2006 (CST)
::It was definately bleeped out in the SciFi broadcast. I noticed it while watching it last week. It's when Adama is talking with Bulldog shortly after he is rescued from the Cylons. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:59, 24 November 2006 (CST)
:::It survived the Canadian broadcast on SPACE. I remember I smiled when I heard it and thought "how the hell did they get away with that in the states?" For some reason anything short of fuck coasts by unedited on Canadian basic cable. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 19:52, 24 November 2006 (CST)
:::: I'm Canadian and I should probably know more about this than I do, but a friend who worked in broadcasting for years told me it was because the CRTC goes by a complaint system for censoring profanity, whereas the FCC actively polices the American airwaves. One Vancouver TV station aired the South Park movie uncut and unbleeped last Canada Day (at around 3 in the morning). --[[User:Steve|Steve]] 06:33, 25 November 2006 (CST)
:Yeah, the bullshit was bleeped out. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:54, 24 November 2006 (CST)

== Three's Opera house Scene ==

I was wondering if someone could elucidate their theories a little further on Three's opera house scene. The comments on this article seem to suggest that Three had never seen the opera house before. However, on first viewing the episode it seemed to me that she was ''trying'' to get there. Isn't that the reason she asked the centurion to kill her in the first place? (If not, what's her motivation for doing so when she ''knows'' that she will resurrect -- she's not escaping anything!) And her comments directly after she wakes up in the resurrection chamber seem to suggest that she doesn't need time to "process" what she's seen -- she's more confirming that yes, there is something there. i.e.- I've seen it before, I wasn't sure of what I was seeing, but now I ''know'' what I'm seeing and I want to tell the others about it.

Did anyone else interpret it this way? Or just me? --[[User:Wolf530|Wolf530]] 10:08, 25 November 2006 (CST)

:I think that her dreams pushed her into it. However, I don't think that she knew exactly what. My theory using spoilers and rumors (major fanwanking):

{{spoiltext|It has been hinted by RDM and Eick that an entire model will be boxed. Another rumor is that the remaining five have been boxed. Five figures were shown in white robes. Maybe the remaining models were boxed because they started doing what Three is doing now. Committing suicide to find the mystery that plagues their dreams.}}
:--[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 12:06, 25 November 2006 (CST)
did anyone see left side one of five figures has a neckless or medal--[[User:mustah|mustah]]

Talk:Refueling tanker/Archive 1

2006-11-24T19:11:33Z

Mustah:

refueling tanker of galactica
first seen before ftl jump to ragnar anchorage(Galactica's port landing bay)the flight pods start retract, blocking entrance time,left side of entrance two fuelbirds
second, first arrival of apollo to galactica on landing bay rigth side one fuelbird
4x sublight engines ,FTL system (???)--mustah--
:That would be the [[Atmospheric shuttle]], which is possibly a tanker, although a Raptor easily could be as well. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:58, 24 November 2006 (CST)
main small transport vessel are raptors, refueling birds must be large multipurpose vessel for transporting fuel,munitions,food,water

Talk:Refueling tanker/Archive 1

2006-11-24T18:42:10Z

Mustah:

Talk:Refueling tanker/Archive 1

2006-11-24T18:40:31Z

Mustah:

refueling tanker of galactica
first seen before ftl jump to ragnar anchorage(Galactica's port landing bay)the flight pods start retract, blocking entrance time,rigth side of entrance two fuelbirds
second, first arrival of apollo to galactica on landing bay left side one fuelbird
4x sublight engines ,FTL system (???)--mustah--

Talk:Refueling tanker/Archive 1

2006-11-24T18:34:48Z

Mustah:

refueling tanker of galactica
first seen before ftl jump to ragnar anchorage(Galactica's port landing bay)the flight pods star retract, blocking entrance time,rigth side of entrance two fuelbirds
second, first arrival of apollo to galactica on landing bay left side one fuelbird

Talk:Stealthstar/Archive 1

2006-11-22T17:52:57Z

Mustah: /* FTL Drive? */

== FTL Drive? ==
How are we so certain that this recon craft had a FTL drive? If I recall, such a topic wasn't mentioned, and we didn't see it in use. Judging from discourse, it would seem that the stealth craft was berthed aboard ''Valkyrie'' and was launched to the theatre from there. I'm not against it having one, but I would advocate to classifying this to "Undetermined" until someone at the "Head Office" states otherwise. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 12:01, 18 November 2006 (CST)
:I agree, it was my fault i copied and pasted the template from another ship and forgot to take that line out. I will do it now. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 19:46, 18 November 2006 (CST)
==stealth ships==
The Blackbird and prototype Colonial stealthstar craft may constructed by Chief Petty Officer Galen Tyrol. He served aboard battlestars from the age of eighteen, including Columbia, Atlantia, and Pegasus (Resistance). He has served under William Adama on Galactica for five years.he know someting about second prototype stealthstar.Why did the Cylons have one craft jump in and fire on the stealth star and then jump out, then sending two more ships to finish the attack? first attack is real cylon or another stealth craft order to provoke a war.-- [[User:mustah|mustah]]

User talk:Mustah

2006-11-19T16:21:11Z

Mustah: this story is only my imagination

== this story is only my imagination.
The genius who cread artificial intelligence,he is believing human is not able to survive
in the future.Approximately 3,600 years before the events in the Miniseries, the oracle Pythia recorded her prophecy of the exile and rebirth of the human race (The Hand of God). Cylons are a creation of this genius , androids used primarily for dangerous work and for wars in the early years of the Twelve Colonies.Before the federation, every colony fight each other with his cylon war machine. genius death in this colonial war time but he is finding the way transfer brain fonction and personality
to the new models of Cylons(prototype) that were organic in nature and essentially identical to human.Cylons were constructed for the purpose of performing tasks no human desired to do, which in time included the arduous and violent job of waging war.After this transfer they have human desire and prophecy of the exile and rebirth of the human race .The Cylon War (or "First Cylon War") was the conflict that ended over forty years prior to the events of the Miniseries and involved the Cylons revolting against their role of servants to the Colonials. While the Cylons used Raiders and basestars, the Colonials developed the first battlestars, of which Galactica was one.it is possible that the Cylon War was what precipitated the unification of the Twelve Colonies.This genius is now god of cylons ,he is immortal,first cylon war is unprepared war.But the Cylons' hatred and envy of mankind ran deep within their programming. The Cylons continued in secret to work towards the destruction of the human race during their absence, devising an elaborate plan to wipe out the Twelve Colonies through nuclear bombardment, computer sabotage, infiltration and vast numbers of fighting craft. The Cylons return forty years later, routing the Colonial Fleet and destroying billions of people and their cities, killing all but approximately 50,000 humans. These survivors leave the occupied Colonies, never to return, initially guarded only by a lone battlestar, Galactica.The SciFi Channel will delve into the backstory of "Battlestar Galactica" with a new series that looks at the creation of the race of robots known as Cylons by the humans of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol and the eventual revolt of the Cylons against their human masters, which will lead the two races to become locked to the death in a bitter war for their respective survivals.

Talk:Wedge-shaped vessel/Archive 1

2006-11-16T19:37:10Z

Mustah: /* Defender? */

== Defender? ==
While it can't be questioned that the ship pictured was on the screen, are there any canonical sources as to the name/role/etc. of that ship? The link to a list of almost entirely non-canonical, fan-made ship designs doesn't really help the case for this ship. As it stands it's one of many ships that has appeared on screen but has no real name, description, or purpose that has been detailed either onscreen or by other canonical sources. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:23, 9 November 2006 (CST)

:The article needs to be reworded obviously, but it could be salvaged. The ship does exist and can be documented with a screenshot. Then a note can clearly explain that the name and its possible military origin (likely retrofitted for civilian use tho) is fan-derived. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:35, 9 November 2006 (CST)

: Aside from the screenshot, everything else seems to be fanon, which needs to be spaced. Also, it would probalby be better to document this ship under [[The Fleet (RDM)]] article. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:52, 9 November 2006 (CST)

::I would rather call it something else just to remove its connection from fandom. The similarities of the ship on the website and the screenshot are nice, but the screenshot does not make the fan's rendering or its description canonical. If the ship was inspired by it, we can give it credit once we confirm that source, but the fan's description goes against the storyline: ''Galactica'' is the ONLY military ship left of the original Colonial Fleet; nothing else is left for defense. I would rather add it to The Fleet article with a reference footnote to the web site nothing the similarity. Otherwise we get into intellectual property and copyright issues as well as fan fiction problems. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:05, 9 November 2006 (CST)
:::It works if you assume that it was a former military ship that was decomissioned and retrofitted for civilian use (like stripped of all weapons and dedictated military technology). And the design does look vaguely military. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:16, 9 November 2006 (CST)

Noted Changes from the Original Series
The basic story is still present: robotic Cylons surprisingly attack the Colonies resulting in a holocaust, thus forcing a "rag-tag, fugitive fleet" to coalesce around the last surviving battlestar, Galactica, to seek a mythical 13th Colony where refugees hope to find shelter from the Cylons. battlestars needs some kind of military support ship,last surviving battlestar is galactica.But galactica is not only military ship in the fleet.--[[User:mustah]]
:Does not compute. Another military vessel would and should have been mentioned by now. Of course a fully equipped battlestar group does have support vessels (also mentioned in "Pegasus"), but ''Galactica'' was about to be decomissioned and alone at the time of the attack. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 14:20, 9 November 2006 (CST)

If this ship does indeed exist then the article name shoudl be either ''Defender'' or ''Defender-class Vessel'' or something like that --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 14:25, 9 November 2006 (CST)

in battlestar galactica pilot film, scene before civilian fleet jump to ragnar anchorage i see three viper this show military vessel capable support and pod for vipers.before ftl jump after cylon fire in the front line i see defender {{unsigned|Mustah}}16 November 2005 after fake Hera's death ,when fake hera dust flying in space. Under space park you can Wedge-shaped vessel --[[User:mustah|mustah]]

:All -- this is all [[Battlestar Wiki:Fanwanking|fanwanking]] right now. Aside from the photo, we really know nothing. Given the very limited military options, if Adama had a Colonial Fleet support craft that could be used, he ''would'' have used it given his very few options, if it mattered. ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' were the ONLY ''military'' ships in the fleet; there is no official info that contradicts this. There is no credible official source for this vessel other than its photo. As a descriptive name, I'd rather not use "Defender" in the name as it speculates without sourcing that it is a military vessel. "Wedge-style vessel" is fine, for example, until/if we get more data. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:15, 9 November 2006 (CST)

::I concur with Spencerian on this. Let's make a note of this ship as a "Wedge-style vessel", since "Colonial defender" strikes me as militaristic. Also, this article should be deleted, but the pic and the note should be added to [[The Fleet (RDM)]] page, as I've previously suggested. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:42, 9 November 2006 (CST)

::I spent a large chunk of time researching this vessel when I was doing a total conversion of Coxxen's low polymodels from 3DS to Blender native format when I saw the model had KEW turrets on it. Here is what I've been able to piece together: The design is by Todd "The Hobb" Boyce and originally modelled in Truespace by Steve Wilson and did show up, minus the landing bay, in the series. While no offical word from producers, that I could find, this is a Defender. It is fan created ship that ended up in the series. Whether for legal reasons they had to alter the design and have not identified the ship, since someone else did design it first, I can't say, but from a 3D CGI perspective...that's the or at least a defender. [[User:Unimatrix|Unimatrix]] 00:55, 14 November 2006 (CST)

:::What sources have you used in your research to support your claims? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:39, 14 November 2006 (CST)
::::I would be interested in your research too. Have you spoken to any of the RDM series technical team for example? While the image from the season 2 finale image does indeed ''look'' very much like the defender from that angle, the name is completely fanon as is it's purpose in the fleet. It would be nice to flesh out this article though but we cant call it the Defender for various reasons.
::::#It might simply be a homage to the guy who designed it, much like the serenity and enterprise in the Miniseries
::::#It is most definitly not a military vessel as described. Galactica is the only one left now that pegasus has gone
::::#The name is fanon created by the artist who originally designed the ship
::::Now i'm completely fanwanking here but given the size of the engines in comparison to the rest of the vessel could it be safe to say that this ship is more likely to be a freighter than passenger cruiser (authough it may have been converted) and thus could be named ''Wedge-shaped Freighter '' or ''Vessel'' until given a canon name by the producers. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:10, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::::[[Wedge-shaped vessel|How does this look?]] Its a quick mockup of how the pace could look with more decent content instead of all fanon. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 04:35, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::::MUCH better. Just need a cite to backup the "only military ship" thing. But I'm pretty sure I remember somebody saying that somewhere. That may be something Brad mentioned in OC, if nothing else. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 08:18, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::::::I like the article in general (although you just ''know'' that I'm going to revise it). "Wedge-shaped vessel" is a nice, non-pronoun title. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:28, 15 November 2006 (CST)
:::::::Indeed. Extremely better than what is here now. I suggest you move the page to "[[Wedge-shaped vessel]]" and import the content you have in the above subpage there. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 08:44, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::::::Moved. Still needs some work tho, so ill add a cleanup tag to it. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 09:37, 15 November 2006 (CST)
::::::::I found the [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques/Archive03#RE: Military Ships|bit that Bradley said about it]] in the OC archives too. "If other ships have survived, military or otherwise, we haven't yet made contact with them" Needs to be added as a "source" perhaps? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 09:49, 15 November 2006 (CST)

Hero

2006-11-11T12:51:13Z

Mustah: /* Questions */

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= Hero
| image= Season 3 - Promo - Hero -Adama Tigh and Novacek.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 8
| guests= [[Carl Lumbly]]
| writer= [[David Eick]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-17
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
| next= [[Unfinished Business]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A [[Bulldog|figure ]] from [[William Adama|Adama]]'s past returns to haunt him. His return raises questions about why the Cylons launched their initial attack against the [[Twelve Colonies]]. <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/hero/episode/748771/summary.html |title=TV.com }}</ref>''
== Summary ==

== Questions ==

*Did humans taken prisoner well before the Fall of the Twelve Colonies provide the original genetic pool for the humanoid Cylons?
* maybe this basestar was adapted for scientific uses and reconnaisance/scout operation.

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==

*A revelation about something truly egregious and illegal that Admiral [[William Adama]] was guilty of doing during the days leading up to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], and how he has kept the revelation of that incident from rearing its head. An event transpires that brings it all home with a vengeance, and the ramifications are significant. (David Eick revealed this in an [http://www.ifmagazine.com/feature.asp?article=1496 interview] with ''iFMagazine''.)

*According to an [http://community.tvguide.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700002601 interview] with David Eick, this is probably episode 7 of [[Season 3 (2006-07)|Season 3]]. A contemporary of Adama's and Tigh's from the past arrives on ''Galactica'' with a very dark secret about Adama.

*In another [http://community.tvguide.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700002601 interview] with Eick, he revealed that this episode "involves a human POW who's been trapped on the Cylon base ship for the last four years, and when we meet him we realize it's a great homecoming for him because he was one of Adama's pilots. But by the middle of the episode you realize the reason why this guy was taken prisoner was because Adama shot his ship down. And it becomes sort of an episode about why such a thing would have happened and how Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies."

*According to Ron Moore at the BSG Comic-Con panel, [[Carl Lumbly]] will guest star in this episode as "[[Bulldog]]", an old pilot of Adama's who was taken as a POW in the war.

*A [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000pbh0a/g261 spoiler image] shows the CIC of the battlestar ''[[Valkyrie]]''.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
*A video blog gives an insight to this episode during filming. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=videoBlog&vid=34824|title=Introducting Bulldog|date=2006-10-11|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=VID|language=}}</ref>

== Guest Stars ==
*Carl Lumby as [[Eugene Novacek]]
*Barry Kennedy as Admiral [[Corman]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Hero

2006-11-11T12:20:06Z

Mustah: /* Questions */

{{spoiler}}

{{Episode Data
| title= Hero
| image= Season 3 - Promo - Hero -Adama Tigh and Novacek.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 8
| guests= [[Carl Lumbly]]
| writer= [[David Eick]]
| story=
| director= [[Michael Rymer]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-17
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= ?
| prev= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
| next= [[Unfinished Business]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''A [[Bulldog|figure ]] from [[William Adama|Adama]]'s past returns to haunt him. His return raises questions about why the Cylons launched their initial attack against the [[Twelve Colonies]]. <ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tv.com/battlestar-galactica-2003/hero/episode/748771/summary.html |title=TV.com }}</ref>''
== Summary ==

== Questions ==

* Does the arrival of someone from Adama's past mean that additional survivors of the [[Twelve_Colonies | Twelve Colonies]] will be rescued or found?
**According to advanced descriptions, it appears that this Colonial was taken prisoner well before the Fall of the Twelve Colonies, and may be an exceptional case.{{citation needed}}
*pows in cylon basestar taken prisoner well before the Fall of the Twelve Colonies may genetic pool of cylons?

== Analysis ==

== Notes ==

*A revelation about something truly egregious and illegal that Admiral [[William Adama]] was guilty of doing during the days leading up to the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], and how he has kept the revelation of that incident from rearing its head. An event transpires that brings it all home with a vengeance, and the ramifications are significant. (David Eick revealed this in an [http://www.ifmagazine.com/feature.asp?article=1496 interview] with ''iFMagazine''.)

*According to an [http://community.tvguide.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700002601 interview] with David Eick, this is probably episode 7 of [[Season 3 (2006-07)|Season 3]]. A contemporary of Adama's and Tigh's from the past arrives on ''Galactica'' with a very dark secret about Adama.

*In another [http://community.tvguide.com/thread.jspa?threadID=700002601 interview] with Eick, he revealed that this episode "involves a human POW who's been trapped on the Cylon base ship for the last four years, and when we meet him we realize it's a great homecoming for him because he was one of Adama's pilots. But by the middle of the episode you realize the reason why this guy was taken prisoner was because Adama shot his ship down. And it becomes sort of an episode about why such a thing would have happened and how Adama begins to believe that on some level he might have been responsible for provoking the Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies."

*According to Ron Moore at the BSG Comic-Con panel, [[Carl Lumbly]] will guest star in this episode as "[[Bulldog]]", an old pilot of Adama's who was taken as a POW in the war.

*A [http://pics.livejournal.com/drewcypher/pic/000pbh0a/g261 spoiler image] shows the CIC of the battlestar ''[[Valkyrie]]''.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

== Official Statements ==
*A video blog gives an insight to this episode during filming. <ref>{{cite_web|url=http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/video/index.php?cat=videoBlog&vid=34824|title=Introducting Bulldog|date=2006-10-11|accessdate=|last=|first=|format=VID|language=}}</ref>

== Guest Stars ==
*Carl Lumby as [[Eugene Novacek]]
*Barry Kennedy as Admiral [[Corman]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by David Eick]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Michael Rymer]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Wedge-shaped vessel/Archive 1

2006-11-09T22:29:07Z

Mustah: /* Defender? */

Talk:Wedge-shaped vessel/Archive 1

2006-11-09T20:15:07Z

Mustah: /* Defender? */

Wedge-shaped vessel

2006-11-09T15:52:31Z

Mustah: new colonial ship colonial defender

ship is seen clearly in the season 2 finale of the new Battlestar Galactica series.http://ravensbranch.allen.com/colonialshipdescriptions.html

User:Mustah

2006-11-09T15:46:52Z

Mustah: colonial defender

http://ravensbranch.allen.com/colonialshipdescriptions.html
ship is seen clearly in the season 2 finale of the new Battlestar Galactica series(colonial defender)

User:Mustah

2006-11-09T15:44:41Z

Mustah: new colonial ship :The Colonial Defender

http://ravensbranch.allen.com/colonialshipdescriptions.html
ship is seen clearly in the season 2 finale of the new Battlestar Galactica series