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Exodus, Part II

2006-10-24T03:42:13Z

Mitchy: Removed reference to Ellen choosing dignified Death.

{{Episode Data
| title= Exodus, Part II
| image=TighAdamaReunion.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 4
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Bradley Thompson]] <br/> [[David Weddle]]
| story=
| director= [[Félix Enríquez Alcalá]]
| production= 304
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-10-20
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population=
| prev= [[Exodus, Part I]]
| next= [[Collaborators]]
}}

== Overview ==

:''Commander [[Lee Adama]] of the battlestar ''[[Pegasus (RDM)| Pegasus]]'' has serious doubts about the success of the [[New Caprica]] rescue mission by ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. On New Caprica, [[Saul Tigh]] decides the consequences for his [[Ellen Tigh |wife's]] betrayal of [[The Resistance | the Resistance]]. Aboard ''Galactica'', Admiral [[William Adama]] executes a dramatic rescue plan.''

== Summary ==

*On ''Pegasus'', [[Lee Adama]] and [[Anastasia Dualla|Dualla]] talk of ''[[Galactica]]'s'' mission. Adama worries heavily that Admiral Adama's mission will fail and of what future responsibilities he may have as the leader of the rest of mankind. His wife tells him to not give up hope.
*On New Caprica, [[Samuel Anders]] confronts [[Saul Tigh]] about [[Ellen Tigh|his wife Ellen's]] betrayal and tells him that either Tigh "takes care" of Ellen, or someone else less sympathetic will do so.
*Ellen Tigh explains her recent actions, that she would do absolutely anything to save Saul, including betraying the resistance. Tigh consoles her and provides her a drink when she asks. She falls unconscious, her drink having been poisoned by her husband. He says that he loves her, rests his head on her corpse, and weeps.
*On ''[[Colonial One]]'', [[Gaius Baltar]] tells the Cylons that they have failed in their experiment and suggests the Cylons simply leave. A [[Number Three|Three]] voices the concern that one day the descendants of mankind might exact vengeance upon the Cylons, should they be left to their own devices.
[[Image:Saulellen.jpg|Saul handing Ellen her poisoned drink.|thumb]]

*Suddenly, dozens of explosions can be felt and seen. The [[Battle of New Caprica]] has begun.
*Anders and the resistance team has set a series of explosions that mimic a Colonial attack and causes chaos. [[Tory Foster]] commands a team of section leaders in the evacuation and orders [[Maya]] to head for her ship with [[Hera|Isis]].
*Anders and a large group of resistance fighters retrieve weapons from beneath the [[Pyramid (RDM)|Pyramid]] court to rescue the detainees in the [[New Caprica Detention Center|detention center]].
*In space above New Caprica, ''Galactica'' deploys a squadron of Raptors and Vipers. The Raptors launch [[swallow]]s to mimic the EM signature of two Colonial battlestars. The Cylons pick them up and fall for the ruse, moving two basestars with their Raiders away from the planet.
*When [[Leoben Conoy]] leaves the residence inside the Detention Center to aid with the fighting, he keeps [[Kara Thrace]] inside. She assaults him and tries to escape, but he knocks her unconscious.
*[[Tom Zarek]] tasks [[James Lyman|Jammer]] to protect [[Laura Roslin]] as she makes her way to ''Colonial One''.
*At the entrance to the shipyard, where the Cylons keep the grounded Colonial vessels, a team under Tigh and [[Galen Tyrol]] are pinned down by [[Cylon Centurion]]s.
*The Cylons detect the decoy drones, but ''Galactica'' jumps deep into the planet's atmosphere and launches its remaining Vipers. Before colliding with the ground, the ship jumps back into space. The Vipers begin to attack targets on the ground and clear the way.
*As others are freed from the Detention Center, Anders finds his unconscious wife and carries her away, but when Thrace awakens, she goes back to retrieve [[Kacey]].
*The battle is turning against ''Galactica''. Her FTL drives are down, weapons are offline and there is heavy structural damage from the atmospheric entry. Four Cylon basestars are closing in and the battlestar is soon bombarded from all sides with no hope of survival. At that moment ''Pegasus'' joins the battle, Lee Adama having disobeyed his father's orders. He opens fire with the forward batteries and destroys one basestar in the opening salvo.
*The Cylons realize that they have lost and decide to evacuate the planet. [[Number Three]] volunteers to stay behind and set off the nuclear weapon that was left in the city for such a contingency. She offers Baltar a place with the Cylons and leaves.
*The Colonial ships initiate intra-atmosphere [[FTL|jumps]] from New Caprica as soon as they become airborne.
*''Pegasus'' is heavily bombarded by missiles, having left all of her Vipers back with the rest of the civilian Fleet. Admiral Adama realizes that his son has planned a one-way mission for ''Pegasus'', and orders recall of ''Galactica's'' fighters.
*On ''Colonial One'', [[Felix Gaeta]] accuses Baltar at gunpoint of having betrayed everyone. Gaeta admits his guilt in idealistically believing in Baltar's initial vision, but realized in the end that Baltar was only thinking about himself. Baltar admits his own guilt and begs Gaeta to shoot him. However, Gaeta relents, giving Baltar a final chance to redeem himself: stop Three from setting off the nuclear bomb.
*With ''Pegasus'' dying, Lee Adama orders everyone to abandon ship. He sets the ship [[CBDR]] with a basestar as the last of the crew leaves in Raptors. ''Pegasus’'' collision destroys another basestar. The remains of ''Pegasus’'' starboard [[flight pod]] collides with and destroy another basestar.
*Kara Thrace retrieves Kacey, but Conoy has returned and confronts her. She appears to give in to his demands, says "I love you," and kisses him. However, Thrace uses the diversion to stab him. She picks up Kacey and leaves with Anders.
*Three searches [[Dodona Selloi]]'s tent, but the [[oracle]] has left. Outside, [[Caprica-Six]] and Baltar find Hera next to [[Maya]]'s body, still alive. Three arrives, asks to hold the child, and leaves with her. [[Caprica-Six]] says Three no longer intends to detonate the nuke, then leaves the planet with Baltar.
*Laura Roslin and a group of resistance fighters enter the now abandoned ''Colonial One'' and are the last ship to leave the planet.
*On ''Galactica'', many people are reunited as Tyrol immediately takes charge of ushering the incoming refugees. When Thrace shows Kacey to Tyrol, another woman walks by and recognizes the girl as her daughter, whom the Cylons had taken away. The mother thanks Thrace for rescuing Kacey. Thrace is shocked by the relevation that Kacey is not her daughter after all, but gives her up.
*Admiral Adama welcomes Tigh back aboard, and tells him he brought everyone back. Tigh quietly replies, "[[Ellen Tigh|Not all of them]]." The colonists in ''Galactica's'' [[hangar deck]] begin chanting "A-dam-a, A-dam-a..." and carry the admiral on their shoulders. Adama turns to see Tigh wandering off, numbed with grief.
*Tory Foster tells Roslin that neither Maya nor Hera can be found, and it seems likely neither made it off the planet. Foster apologizes, but Roslin muses that this was part of something bigger than them.
*Admiral Adama shaves off his mustache and returns to a fully staffed [[CIC]], aboard the now very loud, bustling corridors of ''Galactica''.

== Questions ==

*With Baltar missing at the conclusion of this episode, who will become the President of the Twelve Colonies?
**[[Tom Zarek]], as Vice President, seems to have the best claim. Since he chose to become a political prisoner rather than collaborate with the Cylons, he has probably retained his good standing in the public eye. If Baltar had him removed from office, he could probably make a good case that such an action was illegal.
**Laura Roslin's decision to evacuate on Colonial One may not have been an expression of her intent to claim the presidency. Colonial One had been her home for the first nine months that the fleet spent on the run. Zarek may have opted to evacuate aboard the ''[[Astral Queen]]'', as he has previously served as a leader and representative of that vessel and her passengers.
**However, [[Saul Tigh]] seemed to expect that Roslin would assume the presidency ([[Precipice]]), and when boarding Colonial One, she makes herself at home at Baltar's desk as if she intends to do so.
**The Colonial Government has scheduled elections ([[Bastille Day]]), although it has also called special elections before ([[Colonial Day]]). As of this episode, it has been about a year and five months since the last presidential election, so it is unlikely that another is scheduled in the near future.
*What will be the final disposition of the ''Pegasus'' officers, and the former military personnel who have returned from New Caprica?
**Saul Tigh's injuries may prevent him from resuming his post as XO of ''Galactica''. Additionally, he has been outranked by [[Lee Adama]] since "[[The Captain's Hand]]".
**Lee Adama's command, the ''Pegasus'', has been destroyed. Given Tigh's incapacity, he may begin service as XO of ''Galactica''. He has also expressed dissatisfaction with his military career ([[Final Cut]]) and may wish to retire from fleet service, or resume his earlier duties of military liaison to the civilian government.
**It will be difficult to justify replacing [[Louanne Katraine]] as CAG, given the length of her service since the foundation of New Caprica, and her skill as a pilot, shown to have rivaled or outstripped even that of Kara Thrace by the time of "[[Scar]]".
**[[Kara Thrace]] is separated from Fleet service, and although she will probably return to active duty, it is unlikely that she will resume her former duty position as CAG, ''Galactica'' so long as Katraine is serving competently in that position.
**[[Anastasia Dualla]] is now an officer, and will not be expected to resume NCO-level tasks. [[Hoshi]] held her former position on ''Pegasus'', and is now available to serve on ''Galactica''.
**[[Felix Gaeta]] is separated, and will have to answer for the crimes of Baltar's administration, despite his covert affiliation with the resistance. [[Karl Agathon]] and [[Aaron Kelly]] have both been shown performing Gaeta's duties in CIC on ''Galactica'', and one of them may replace him.
**[[Cally Tyrol]], [[Galen Tyrol]], or both may choose to remain separated (from fleet service) to raise their son, Nicholas. We have not yet seen young children being raised on board ''Galactica'', although there is a [[Boxey (RDM)|precedent]] for keeping a civilian minor onboard.
*What consequences will Ellen Tigh's death have for her husband?
*What equipment and personnel were left behind on [[New Caprica]]?
**In order to build [[New Caprica City]], the ships were at least partially stripped and supplies were offloaded.
**Medical supplies were running low as of "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]", although apparently the colonists were resupplied by the Cylons.
**Are there any people alive remaining on New Caprica after the exodus, due to wounds or infirmity? Were there any detention facilities which the [[New Caprica Resistance]] failed to liberate? Did anyone besides [[Gaius Baltar]] stay behind willingly?
*If the civilian ships only needed to get a few hundred feet off the ground in order to use their FTL drives and escape, why do ''Galcatica'' and ''Pegasus'' need to engage the basestars? Is this just to keep the Raiders, Heavy Raiders, and missiles from being used on the civilian fleet, on the surface below? (Note: it is not in dispute that having ''Galactica'' launch its fighters within the atmosphere is important so they could attack the Centurions and few raiders there.)
**As with the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], the Cylons could destroy the city with a single nuclear bomb in orbit. The plan appears to force the Cylons to be too distracted by the battlestar's offenses (Raptors at first, then the battlestar itself) to worry about the actions on the planet. ''Galactica'' jumps intra-atmosphere to minimize detection by the basestars.
**As part of Adama's strategy, after the intra-atmospheric jump, he probably wanted to jump the Galactica to the lowest possible orbit such that when the planetary rescue effort was complete that he could recover the vipers in the shortest possible time. To jump the Galactica to an extremely high orbit could add hours to viper recovery and allowing far too much time for Basestars and Raiders alike to close into their position.
*Will Gaeta be the target of persecution or assassination as a collaborator? Or will people believe in him when he is found out to be the secret informant?
*Will [[Cally Tyrol]] identify Jammer as the NCP officer who released her, based on his voice?
*''Galactica's'' escape seems questionable. Most or all of ''Galactica's'' Vipers were launched during the atmospheric maneuver. Later, after the four basestars start pummelling ''Galactica'', its situation is dire, facing explosive decompressions and with its FTL disabled. Adama says, "Then that's it. It's been an honor." ''Pegasus'' immediately appears and uses its superior weaponry to engage the basestars, destroying one in the first volley, so Adama orders the FTL to be fixed. Soon, Helo reports that most of the civilian ships have jumped, that FTL is back online, and that ''Pegasus'' is taking "a hell of a pounding." Adama orders his Vipers to land so that ''Galactica'' can leave. The next shot is Vipers landing, but weren't they all at the surface? How long does it take a Viper to climb into orbit? Real-world atmospheric escapes take several minutes, at least. How much damage were the basestars and battlestars doing to each other in this time?
**We aren't seeing events in real-time. Several minutes can lie between scenes that appear to happen right after another. Sometimes it is simply necessary to compress things in order to fit them into one episode.
**There may be several key differences at play between an escape from New Caprica's atmosphere and a real-world atmospheric departure, such as a lower [[Wikipedia:Karman line|atmospheric boundary]], more powerful thrusters on the Vipers, etc.
***In a real-world example, the [[Wikipedia:Space Shuttle|Space Shuttle]] takes approximately 10 minutes to attain escape velocity. The length of this time is partly due to the fact that the Space Shuttle's engines are occassionally throttled back to keep exceleration below 3 G to reduce discomfort to the crew. Additionally, typically it takes several hours for the Space Shuttle to attain the same orbit as the [[Wikipedia:International Space Station|ISS]]. For convenience of fiction, from the time of escape velocity of the vipers to attaining the same orbit of the Galactica could be said to be several minutes. Therefore, the entire sequence probably took in real-time 1/2 hour from the time the order was given by Adama to retrieve the Vipers to the time that all Vipers were aboard the Galactica. This is not taking into account that all craft can't land simultaneously on a carrier. The Pegasus probably took a pounding from 1/2 to 1 hour from the 3 remaining Basestars before it reached its final demise, a process that was beyond the timeframe of the show.
*Why did Kara Thrace wait so long to stab Leoben? She could have done it before even kissing him.
**Possibly, Thrace intended to insult to injury by her quick betrayal, but also, she needed to ensure that the Cylon agent was completely off his guard.
**It's also possible she is not as strong as we think, and truly felt something for Leoben in those few moments.
*What about the Cylons, such as Leoben, who were killed during the insurection? If they were dependant on a resurrection facility on New Caprica, is said facility still operational? If not, is there a resurrection ship in range?
*What, besides ''Galactica'' and her crew, was gained by the sacrifice of ''Pegasus''? Most of the civilian ships had already jumped to safety, and ''Pegasus'' did not bring any Vipers along to escort the remainder, opting instead to leave them to defend the small civilian fleet it had been protecting. If nothing was gained besides the survival of ''Galactica'', the sacrifice was a costly and foolish mistake - the fleet has lost the more advanced of its two battlestars, and along with it, its ability to manufacture new Vipers ([[Scar]]).
**From a purely military mission perspective that is correct. Pegasus' intervention seems to have been made solely because of the personal feelings of its commander. For the Cylons, the destruction of Pegasus and the retrieval of Hera compensate to an extent for the loss of three base stars and 30,000 human prisoners.
** Actually the mission was to rescue the 30,000 humans, the bulk of the survivors of the human race. The military perspective would be the sacrifice was worth the loss (though it would have been better, perhaps, if Galactica would have done the suicide run. It seems, though, that Pegasus would have jumped out if it could do so, but the ship lost its FTL drive during the pounding. This seems to happen relatively frequently for heavily defended warships designed to engage in brutal combat -- both Battlestars lost FTL during this battle. Also, Galactica's facilities to manufacture Vipers may have been greatly improved during the year at New Caprica.

== Analysis ==

*Either the scenes aren't in order or Baltar is not aware of what is going on. In the Gaeta-Baltar scene, Baltar says, "The Cylons have a nuke in this complex. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is getting off this planet alive unless I stop D'Anna." But this is after most of the civilian ships have already jumped.

*Further, until Hera is discovered by Baltar, Three is still looking to set off the nuke -- even though it is clear that the colonists are all long gone.
**It's possible Three wasn't seeking to set off the nuke, but said she was as a ruse to go seek answers about her premonitions concerning Hera.
*** Any nuke held by the Cylons would likely be stored somewhere inside the guarded Cylon parimeter. It appears that this Three made a beeline to the Oracle, and was upset that she was not there. While going through the tent, knocking things over, she is quoted as saying "frackking liar!".

*In general, the Cylons seem to have left the planet implausibly underguarded. Considering the strategic nature of the site, as well as the well-known fact that two battlestars remained at large, one would have expected the Cylons to have an overwhelming amount of protection for the planet -- perhaps dozens of basestars. Furthermore, it is hard to believe that the Cylons were not keeping closer tabs on the whereabouts of the launch keys.
**It has been established beforehand that the Cylons are overstretched with the occupation. This could account for the lack of protection. At any rate, four basestars against two battlestars is hardly an even match, let alone two half-strength battlestars.
***A Basestar does not seem to be a 1 to 1 match for a Battlestar. They lack offensive and defensive gun batteries, the ability to maneuver quickly, and have a critical design flaw that is easily exploited (central hub holding the six arms together). Basestars depend on missiles and large numbers of Raiders. Adama felt that the Galactica, even barely manned, could hold up to two Cylon Basestars.
****Additionally, RDM has mentioned in his podcasts that the Cylons do have major operations elsewhere hinting at future storylines in the season. It is possible that the Cylon higher command made a strategic decision to guard the planet with what they deemed the minimal required number of basestars to defend against 2 battlestars.

*With the former crew of ''Pegasus'' onboard ''Galactica'' now, the ship has something close to its standard crew size. (Galactica's crew was deduced to be 2,693 in the episode "[[Water]]", and Pegasus's was introduced with a crew count of 1,752 in "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]" (see [[Crew tally]]). William Adama notes that over half of the crew has settled on [[New Caprica]] in "[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]", and Lee confirms that both ships are at half-strength in "[[Occupation]]".) Military operations should be much smoother now, and repairs to the ship in general are more feasible.
**However, many repairs, such as structural, will require shipyard or dockyard facilities equiped with replacement parts and heavy repair machinery required for such repairs, and these facilities are no longer available. The Galactica may never again be the fighting force that it once was.

*While the combination of the ''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'' air groups give the latter battlestar a full-strength fighter wing, the Fleet has suffered the loss of its most advanced and best-armed warship. With it also went the capability to build replacement Vipers, unless one of the civilian ships can be converted for such a purpose. Defensively, the Fleet is pretty much back to the position it was in when it left the Colonies.
**However, the Galactica did take significant structural damage during the conflict, therefore, it currently isn't in the same state of battle readiness as it was at the time it left the Colonies.

*It appears during the whole conflict in atmospheric combat that the Raiders were spending most of their time running from the Vipers. This may be due to the fact that Colonial Vipers have a far superior atmospheric design where Raiders are optimized for space operations. The Viper has a stabilizing vertical wing which aids the pilot in manuevering through the atmosphere just like all real-life combat aircraft. The Raider lacks this stabilizer wing much reducing their effectiveness in aeronautic combat and manuevering thrusters are not as effective in air as in space due to resistance. This made the tactic of depositing the Galactica's Vipers into a solely air-support role for evacuating ships very effective once the Space-born Raiders were decoyed away from the planet so that the Galactica only had to face the Basestars, not the Raiders.
*Pegusas seemed to fulfill it's role just like the [[Pegasus (TOS)|original Pegasus]], as it fought to the end to defeat two basetars and allowed Galactica along with the last of the fleet to escape from the cylons.

== Notes ==

* There is also a TOS comic named ''[[Exodus!]]''
* Both parts of "Exodus" were originally planned as one episode. However, it was quickly realized that the story was far too large for one episode and it was split in two. This happened before with "[[Scattered]]" and "[[Valley of Darkness]]" and "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I|Resurrection Ship]]." It also helped save money because the construction of New Caprica, the extensive location shooting, the number of actors, as well as the special effects for "Exodus, Part II" were very expensive and the production was over budget.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''Discussing the failure of the occupation:''
:'''Number Three''': What would you have us do, Gaius?
:'''Gaius Baltar''': Leave. Pack up your centurions, and go. Please. Go.
:'''Number Three''': And then what? What would you do if we really just left you here? You'd live out your lives in peace and never trouble yourselves with thoughts of us again? Or would you raise your children with stories of the Cylon, the mechanical slaves who once did your bidding, only to turn against you? Killers who committed genocide against your race, the occupiers of this city until we just ran away? Would you tell them to tell the story to their children, and to their childrens' children, and nurse a dream of vengeance down through the years so that one day they could just go out into the stars and hunt the Cylon once more?
:'''Gaius Baltar''': Blood for blood ...has to stop one day.

*''Roslin heads to Colonial One''
:'''Roslin''': My ship's up there.
:'''Zarek''': You sure have a sense of the dramatic.

*''Adama comes to accept ''Galactica'''s end''
:'''Admiral Adama:''' Then that's it. It's been an honor.

*''After Hearing Pegasus Has Joined Galactica
:'''Admiral William Adama''': Damn You, Lee ...Thank You, Lee.

*''The Pegasus is evacuated before its destruction''
:'''Dualla:''' Alright, people, let's move. Out! Let's go. (To Lee): You too, Commander.
:'''Commander Lee Adama:''' Yes, sir. (Begins to leave, then stops and looks around at Pegasus): Thank you.

*''As the two Adamas reunite after the battle:''
:'''Admiral William Adama''': I guess you didn't understand my orders.
:'''Commander Lee Adama''': I never could read your handwriting.

*''Adama welcomes Col. Tigh back to ''Galactica''
:'''Adama:''' You did it, Saul. You brought them back.
:'''Tigh:''' Not all of them.

== Official Statements ==

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Henderson Tyrol|Cally Tyrol]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[[Rick Worthy]] as [[Simon]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Félix Enríquez Alcalá]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[de:Exodus, Part II]]

Talk:Humanoid Cylon speculation/Archive4

2006-10-17T04:55:44Z

Mitchy: Anders Speculation

:''For discussions prior to October 13, 2006, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Cylon_agent_speculation&oldid=83992 see this revision.]

==Major Concision==
I've heavily edited this lengthy article to the clearest points, removing excessive or redundant explanations already available in episode or character synopsis, leaving the most damning or affirms points of argument. I've removed the [[Tory Foster]] suspicion as it gives no justifiable weight-bearing indication of suspicion over other occasionally-seen characters. There were plenty of people who formed the new Quorum of Twelve who are as intimately familiar with the rules of its organization and law as Foster's knowledge suggests, and none of them are any more or less suspicious than Foster in that vein of logic.

As Billy Keikeya is dead, no further points need be made for him unless he returns to life, which would be a dead giveaway, thus his major concision.

I added the note from actors on critical season 3 info on Cylon agents in a spoiler, however, this needs a citation for it to remain.

Points of reference were also added to aid in supporting data while leaving the article clearer to read. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:36, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

==Interesting Info==
Read the [http://www.aintitcool.com/?q=node/30381 interview] below the Exodus I spoilers with Aaron Douglas and Tamoh Penikett at DragonCon. Very important spoilers about this article.
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1" class="spoiltext_border"
! {{spoilerplate}}
|-
| id="spoil-text" class="spoiltext_box" | We have seen all the Cylon Models we are going to. The rest have been boxed. If one is ever reactivated, it will be a new character
|}

My take on the interview. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 09:23, 14 October 2006 (CDT)

:That kinda contradicts statements by Dean Stockwell and Grace Park who said that the other Cylon models are so secretive that the Significant Seven don't even think about them.
:Moreover there is a qualifier. Aaron Douglas says "they've been boxed. '''I think''' that they've been boxed." --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:46, 14 October 2006 (CDT)
:: That was my interpretation. I could be wrong. Although, the cylon actors would probably have more "credibility" about the topic. Does seem contradictory. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 09:58, 14 October 2006 (CDT)
:Dammit! I was at DragonCon and missed their panels. I ''did'' meet them and get their autograph, but my photo with them blew up. The spoiler suggests more problems than the characters let on. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:48, 14 October 2006 (CDT)
Aaron Douglas was speculating, as he states. He was rationalizing why we haven't seen the other five among large groups of Cylons. The Significant Seven/Final Five arrangement is mentioned in the Cylon Bible document, which Douglas has no reason to read for his role. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 19:19, 15 October 2006 (CDT)

== Jammer as Cylon speculation ==
I think this is the most rediculous assertation on this page. There is little evidence that he is an Cylon. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary. Yet, because he has his own pessimistic point of view and is easily swayed by the Cylon Doral, there are individuals who want to say he's a cylon. Maybe the speculation was warranted in Season 1, but only in Valley of Darkness was there anything to consider and his negative and pessimistic attitude later or lack of knowledge of a term is hardly evidence at all. Additionally, The Resistance paints him more as a confused boy than a Cylon infiltrator. He makes some big mistakes but nothing that would indicate he was a Cylon. He joins the NCP but so did 200 other Colonials. In Occupation, only 33 of the 200 humans die as a result of Duck's suicide bomb so how does the fact that Jammer is among the 167 humans that survived (a majority) indicate that he's a Cylon? What his experience with the occupation has shown is that he is struggling with it psychologically. He had a legitimate gripe with the weapons being in the temple (I'm religious too and don't feel its alright so does that make me a Cylon too?) and Tigh's response scared the heck out of him. Doral offered him a rosier (if false) picture of how things would turn out with a NCP. Jammer was a dupe. That doesn't make him a cylon. The evidence so far on the page has boiled down to "If you aren't working with us, then you must be a cylon." And I think that's an incorrect way of looking at things. The evidence is trace at best so he should be moved out of this High Probability and to Low Probability at the highest. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 17:02, 15 October 2006 (CDT)

:Remember that this is speculation, so different interpretations will lead to different results. For me, Jammer's (and Dualla's) survival in "Valley" are significant questions that rate them higher. A dupe like Baltar? Probably. Try concising your points down to a few sentences, add them in, and drop his rating. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:27, 15 October 2006 (CDT)
::Here's a concisement of my points:
Points against him

1 - 'Valley of Darkness'; What happened? It's a valid question.

Not Points against him

1 - 'Litmus'; Comments about everybody looking out for themselves. This doesn't indicate any grand cylon scheme to disrupt humans, this is just some dumb young kick scared for himself cuz his buddy could possibly be a Cylon (which it did...Boomer). He was paranoid for real, and not unjustified. Paranoia shouldn't be evidence.

2 - 'Resistance', Comments about Tyrol being a Cylon and Cally should be mad at Boomer not him. Again, he's dumb young guy and not too atypical. Have any of you been to high school? I did. I knew dozens of kids like that. And his 2nd comment was true in a fashion. She shouldn't be mad at him, she should be mad at Boomer in that situation. This is not evidence.

3 - 'Flight of the Phoenix' & 'Valley of Darkness; "Sometimes you have to roll the hard six." Boomer knew this term. Jammer didn't. This is a pilot term and Boomer's a pilot and Jammer is not. End of story.

4 - 'Blackbird'; Jammer is just a pessimistic guy. Wouldn't you if the world came to an end and you were always on the verge of death? And like a lot of young guys I've worked with, stuff he does isn't productive. He was negative about the Blackbird but so was Tigh. This is not evidence.

5 - 'The Resistance'; Jammers comments to Duck about NCP being a good thing. We know he was testing Duck. Again, not evidence. Jammer defending Duck when Duck decided not to join the resistance, again a young guy standing up for his buddy, not evidence.

6 - 'The Resistance'; Jammer upset about people dying and weapons in the temple. Though I understand the circumstances, I agree with him about weapons in the temple. He's right, not wrong. Not a Cylon. We also know Jammer is an emotional guy, so people dying makes him get distressed. Did you notice the pacing back for, the frantic in his voice? Not evidence.

7 - 'The Resistance'; Doral brought Jammer in for questioning. What's the significance of this if Jammer's a Cylon too. There isn't any.

8 - 'Occupation'; Jammer survived because there were 100 other survivors between him and Duck. End of story.

That's all the points made on the article page. The only 1 to hold water is the "Valley of Darkness" incident. And a lot of these evidences above are actually evidence that he's not a Cylon. If he's a sleeper agent, then he's a poorly placed sleeper agent.

Points for him

1 - His motivations are pretty clear. He's a simply minded kid so the reasons he says some of the things he does aren't that difficult to find out.

2 - He doesn't leak information to the Cylons when interviewed by Doral and even after he joins the NCP. You would think a Cylon agent would spill the beans, especially since his cover wouldn't have been blown once as part of the NCP.

3 - Ron D. Moore was going to kill him off in Exodus but changed his mind at the last minute. How can he get killed off if he's a Cylon? Don't they just download?

4 - He hasn't done something out of character like Boomer did.

5 - He hasn't sent back info or done sabotage like D'Anne, Doral or Boomer.

6 - There is no big 'ooooo' effect if he were a Cylon as his effect on things is generally minor. I'd think the Cylons would plan there sleeper agents better (more like Boomer)

So that's
1 point for Jammer as a Cylon
8 points that have no bearing and more likely to prove he's not a Cylon
6 points that he's not a Cylon
I say he should be down to Low Probability.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 19:14, 15 October 2006 (CDT)

:Sounds like you've done your homework. Feel free to adjust the main article, but condense your reasoning to a few paragraphs for brevity and be prepared to cite your reasonings above. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 03:42, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

== Anders Speculation ==

While I don't think Anders is a Cylon, the argument that becauase members of the Signifigant Seven (S7) say he is human, he is human is flawed. IFF the S7 cannot even think about the Final Five, then Anders COULD be one of the Final Five, and thus unknowable as such to the S7.

Talk:Cylon Models/Archive 1

2006-10-17T04:44:07Z

Mitchy: Bad Link

==Image Requests==
#Number Six's glowing spine from the "Miniseries"
:::done. --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 12:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)
#Valerii's viper optic arm trick from "Flight of the Phoenix"
::: [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images]] --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 12:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)
#Thrace cutting into the downed raider's brain from "You Can't Go Home Again"
::: Done. More on [[Battlestar Wiki:Island of Misfit Images]] --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 12:11, 26 February 2006 (EST)
#Closer-cropped headshots of each of the six known Cylons --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:17, 30 December 2005 (EST)
:::as you wish ;) --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 11:20, 26 February 2006 (EST)

More?
:Thanks, it looks fantastic. I only wonder if we can't find a better picture of Doral... --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:19, 26 February 2006 (EST)
:: i'm really trying to. i think the previous was crappier than this one, but it doesn't make this a good one. by the way, the background color is painful! =D --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 15:32, 26 February 2006 (EST)

:::Agreed; Doral could stand to be better.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 12:45, 2 March 2006 (CST)

''"Organizational Relationships''

''The exact nature of the Cylon hierarchy remains unclear. The humanoid models, as the most evolved form of Cylon, are definitely in charge of the Centurions and Raiders. Caprica-Six's statement in "Downloaded" that Cylon culture is based on unity and that celebrities such as herself are something new implies that there is no single "Imperious Leader" as there was in the old series. Copies of Numbers Three, Five, Six, and Eight are most often seen in command positons. "''

i don't agree. can i have some other opinion about this? --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 08:02, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:What's your opinion? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 08:32, 16 March 2006 (CST)
::well, i think we shouldn't say the humanoids are in charge, but thats not the main point. i think we everybody agree about the non humanoid execute orders and do most military actions, and, when with cylon agents, the last ones are in charge. but i non-humanoids are like instruments, just like animals or sensor powered machines with no full artificial inteligence.
::what i want to discuss about is "Cylon culture is based on unity".c ylon culture is actually based on the fact that enybody is fully necessary, they are all clones, when dead another one is replacing them, and their missions are minor parts from a great plan. cylons DO have a plan, we mustn't forget it, no matter it seems not (hey, they finnaly taken their planetary colony, twice xD).
::the caprica copies were uniques were living with humans, they have really decisive missions, and they were heroes. so, when introduced back on their original culture, they couldn't engage. for the cylon culture they were dangerous, as they are leading voices who can make the cylon agent having their own opinions as the caprica copies have. they are fully IA (or whatever they are) and can question, for example, the cylon atack against the colonies.
::"Copies of Numbers Three, Five, Six, and Eight are most often seen in command positions." we know 7 agents and are mentioned 4, thats like saying "men between 25-55 y o are usually in command of younger ones". i think thats more a personality issue rather than military. when seen, we didn't know more models. in fact, they are not only the most often seen in command positions, but also the most often seen.
::and, about the imperious leader, as i said before, their culture is about to execute plan. the fact that the audience and the colonial leaders haven't met a cylon leader yet doesn't mean that he doesn't exist. by the other hand, i'm not saying that actually does, but i think we shouldn't give information far away from the series information by the last '''aired''' episode.
::EDIT.: oh, i hadn't understood "unity" the right way. well, now i think it's confusing. not beacuse i have confused it, but because the information is one step closer to the speculation instead of actual facts. how do the agents give orders to raiders or explain missions? and when have we seen an agent giving an order to a centurion? all we know is that they execute actions. maybe they do beacuse agents can't. as agents execute missions the centurions can't. imagining is true they have no leader, why have they to have militar levels?
:: as i'm not saying it must be deleted, i think is too close to the line and has to be often revisited. thats why i've asked for you opinion.
::btw, has anybody found a better Doral pic? i'm still loking for, but it's not easy! a Cavil one was earlier found! xD
::have a nice day! --[[User:Dancing_salad|Dancing salad]] 09:23, 16 March 2006 (CST)

:::The "unity" quote is based on dialogue from "[[Downloaded]]", so I consider that to be fairly reliable. As for "Copies of Numbers Three, Five, Six, and Eight are most often seen in command positions," we have the following evidence:
:::*Miniseries: High ranking Six on Armistice Station, Eight at Ragnar Anchorage.
:::*Bastille Day, Flesh and Bone, Litmus, Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down: High ranking Five and Six oversee Cap-Valerii's mission.
:::*Final Cut: High ranking Threes, Fives, Sixes and Eights view classified documentary footage
:::*Downloaded: High ranking Three assigned to observe Caprica-Six and Boomer.
:::By contrast, we have not seen Conoy, Simon or Cavil receiving classified information, overseeing other cylons, or delivering orders. I think the statement as written is pretty fair. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:54, 16 March 2006 (CST)

==Cylon Hierarchy==
It says we've seen 3, 5, 6, and 8 in command, but frankly, we've seen at least one instance of each model having commmand. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22 March 2006

==Merging?==
This thread is very complete on every aspect of the Cylons. I'm proposing we merge it with the "Cylons (RDM)" thread, and rename it as such, since it seems to me to explain the Cylons quite well.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22 March 2006
:Actually it originally ''was''; the "Cylons" article, in it's current form, is two paragraphs as an intro and a link box to subsections; originally it WAS all of the info from this page, and then some--->I don't know if I agree with this system or not, and I have been pondering it for some time. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 21:39, 21 March 2006 (CST)
::Well, if it goes down to some sort of vote, I for one prefer to have this as the main Cylon artice (for the species). .--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22 March 2006
:::It seems to me that a short history article would be a better choice for the main page of the Cylons series. Perhaps we could just have blurbs farmed out to each subsidiary article with a "see also" line. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:20, 22 March 2006 (CST)

==Known (human) models==
Seven (7) are pictured. Isn't there another male model, as seen in the opening credits? (cut from a scene in, I believe, the miniseries--been a while since I've seen the mini)... where we see a group of several human-Cylons walking in profile. Or was that Leoben? I might be wrong, but I thought it was another actor. --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 06:55, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
:The only male cylons visible in the mini are Leoben Conoys and Aaron Dorals. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 09:32, 24 May 2006 (CDT)
::I stand corrected. It was indeed Leoben. My bad.--[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 12:29, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

== Re: Centurion Model 0005 ==

''"it is most likely that she is referring to the modern Centurions, which seem to have replaced them entirely"''

Isn't this subjective speculation? Is there any evidence that the old "toasters" can't still be walking around? In fact, seems like I read somewhere that they're supposed to show one (or more) of the old models in Season 3... (Yes, this is speculation on my part as well. Would appreciate any clarification anyone can provide. I resist reading spoilers.) --[[User:Sasoriza|Sasoriza]] 12:37, 20 July 2006 (CDT)

:We are fairly sure that the old Centurions have been replaced and no longer exist, and we're going to retain that for the time being. I asked in Ron Moore's blog about this but he hasn't made a new one since April, and I think he's the only one that knows :) --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 13:09, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
::''If'' they are shown in series three ''then'' we will update the wiki ;) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 14:11, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
:That article could really use some TOS love. It's perfectly adequate for their RDM role (especially if we never see one again), but considering how important they were to the original series there isn't much material on them. I may have to hunt up some TOS screenshots and put together more material on the old tin cans... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:49, 20 July 2006 (CDT)
::Rather than putting them both on the same page, there's enough material on both to support separate pages, so I would suggest [[Cylon Models (RDM)]] and [[Cylon Models (TOS)]].--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 09:12, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
:::Actually, I wasn't suggesting a TOS verision of Cylon Models (though that information seems to be present in a "summary form" at [[Cylons (TOS)]].) I was more mentioning a desire to add more content about the TOS Centurions on the Centurion 0005 page (unless the content becomes enough for THAT page to have to split).--[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:29, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
::::We shouldn't add TOS info about the original-model Centurions, even though they are physically identical: only what has appeared on screen in the RDM continuity. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 10:00, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
:::::Well, that sounds like a project then. Right now the 005 article has both TOS and RDM continuity categories, and all links to the old-style toaster point to that article. It sounds like you're suggestions a Centurion (TOS) maybe, and then point all TOS/1980/etc. references to that page. There's less than 100 links to 005, so it's not insurmountable... just more than I plan on taking on today. (Creating the TOS article, creating any disambig pages (if necessary), changing links/redirects to point to new article.) I'll make a note about it on the 005 page so I don't forget, though. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:20, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
::::::I'll get on that.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] <sup>([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]])</sup> 10:31, 21 July 2006 (CDT)
== Dean Stockwell Interview ==
In Battlestar Magazine, Dean Stockwell is reported saying
{| cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1" class="spoiltext_border"
! {{spoilerplate}}
|-
| id="spoil-text" class="spoiltext_box" | Yeah, absolutely. When I was up there last time, the writer passed around a document to all of the Cylons in the cast that I got to read. It said very specifically that there are seven - [let's] call them the significant seven - Cylons, and then there's five others ones that are in this mystery mode. No one knows where they are, what they are, and what they are up to. They've so scretive that they've programmed the significant seven so that they can't even think about the other five. They can't have a thought enter their head about these other five [laughs]. I turned out to be number three. Brother Cavil, of the significant seven. I'll be back!

|}

Can anyone confirm that before the wiki is updated with the info? I had heard this before, but had not seen any proof. Edit: Really could affect Cylon Agent Spec. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:43, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

:If Stockwell's reference number is to be taken as correct, it screws up what we know of the Numbers of models. I doubt that it's right, and it DOES really make future Cylon reveals scarier than ever. I'll see if I can find the issue and date to confirm. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:34, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

::Got to thinking about this. Maybe it's kinda like a "bible" doc and til it happens onscreen, it's not "canon". Just a thought. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 12:20, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

::: Grace Park also said in an interview that the Significant Seven are programmed not to think about the Final Five. It is a bible document, but they are doing the storyline with the assumption that it's true. It does explain why we will only see seven models included in the voting process during the occupation. Also, a spoiler for Taking A Break From All Your Worries includes a scene where Baltar flashs back to asking D'anna if she's seen the five models that no one else has seen. It's still subject to change, and we shouldn't include it on the wiki before we see it, but I think it will probably turn out this way. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 12:55, 20 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Yeah, we've known about this little piece of info for a while, but I'm confused why he claimed to be "number three", while that number has already been assigned to the D'annas....Probably a mistake, which is tantalizing since I was hoping he would reveal his number in the interview. Oh well. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:25, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

== Bad Link ==

The External link in reference to the twelve cylon models seems in err. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 23:44, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

Exodus, Part I

2006-10-17T04:35:56Z

Mitchy: Link for Chamalla

{{Episode Data
| title= Exodus, Part I
| image=Roslinanders-Exodus.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 3
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
| writer= [[Bradley Thompson]] <br/> [[David Weddle]]
| story=
| director= [[Félix Enríquez Alcalá]]
| production= 303
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-10-13
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population=
| prev= [[Precipice]]
| next= [[Exodus, Part II]]
| goof=Y
}}

== Overview ==

:''The [[Cylons]] have begun the brutal crackdown on [[New Caprica]]'s [[Resistance]] movement. Tyrol receives disturbing news from a secret source within Baltar's administration while Colonial detainees face a Cylon firing squad on New Caprica. With time running out for the colonists, Admiral Adama will launch his rescue attempt with only the battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'', while his son, Commander [[Lee Adama]], and the battlestar ''[[Pegasus]]'' remain to protect what is left of the human fleet and continue the search for Earth if the rescue fails.''

== Summary ==

*The final moments of "[[Precipice]]" are reshown as the captured detainees are being taken off the trucks. [[Cally Tyrol]] is freed, as the Centurions march up the hill. Tyrol continues to run as gunfire is heard. As the screen goes to black, the words "One Hour Earlier" are displayed.
*[[Galen Tyrol]] is frantically talking with [[Saul Tigh]] about a list of detainees he received from his [[Felix Gaeta|source]], Cally Tyrol is among the listed. Tigh snaps him back to his senses, noting that they can locate the people now that they cracked the Cylons' coordinate system.
*Chief Tyrol immediately gets to work, succesfully calculating the location of the execution, and gathers a team to rescue Cally and the others.
*Tyrol's team, including [[Seelix]], is able to catch up with the Cylons, and get in position as Cally Tyrol starts running. Tyrol rushes out and gets his wife out of the line of fire, as his team takes out the Centurions meant to execute the detainees. Others injured include some members of the [[NCP]] and the [[Cavil]] that accompanies the truck.
*Seelix leaves a wounded Cavil to death. After he downloads into a new body, the Cavil reports that he ended his own life, but is somewhat traumatized from the transfer process.
*At [[Breeder's Canyon]], similar to the scene at the [[Pergamus Flats]], a flashback shows how [[marines]] move into position to defend the meeting there against a possible attack.
[[Image:Colonial RPG.jpg|thumb|150px|right|Colonial Marine with an RPG]]
*[[Sharon Agathon]] moves ahead to meet with [[Samuel Anders|Anders]] and the resistance. As Agathon and Anders discuss their plans, the Centurions attack, taking out some of the resistance fighters, but are soon destroyed by a marine RPG.
*After the attack, a map is recovered from one of the [[Cylon agent|'skinjobs']]. Anders recognizes it as the hand-drawn map passed on to [[Ellen Tigh]] to destroy in the heating fire within their tent. Anders immediately suspects Tigh in tipping off the Cylons.
*While sleeping, [[Number Three]] dreams of a tent near some odd rock edifices. The next image is of her holding [[Hera]]. She wakes up suddenly.
*On ''[[Colonial One]]'', [[Gaius Baltar]] and [[Caprica-Six]] lie together in bed, but Baltar is fighting with impotence. Six is understanding, but Baltar shrugs off her sympathy.
*[[Kara Thrace]] is showing further affection for [[Kacey]] and apologizes for her getting hurt. [[Leoben Conoy]] watches from the background.
*Distrubed by her dream, [[Three]] visits [[Selloi]], a human [[oracle]] whose tent she saw in her dream, who tells her that [[Hera]] is still alive, but warns that holding the child will undo all that the Cylons have accomplished on the planet.
*On ''[[Galactica]]'', a combined crew of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' and ''Galactica'' crews ready for the rescue mission. [[Margaret Edmondson]] conducts a [[Salt Line Ceremony|ceremony]] to bind the people together, given the odds of the mission.
*[[William Adama|William]] and [[Lee Adama]] have a farewell of their own when Commander Adama leaves ''Galactica'' for ''Pegasus'', with orders to wait 18 hours for ''Galactica'''s return. Otherwise, ''Pegasus'' must continue the search for Earth with the surviving [[The Fleet (RDM)|members of the Fleet]].
*Three inquires with Dr. [[Cottle]], who is treating a Cylon wounded by a human attack, about Hera's alleged death.
*[[Laura Roslin]] orders Anders to guard [[Maya]] and [[Hera]] at all costs. He tasks two of his best men to protect her and see to her safe escape.
*Gunnery Sergeant [[Mathias]], the leader of Agathon's Marines, meets with Roslin, [[Tom Zarek]] and the resistance to discuss the rescue plan. She brings weapons for the upcoming fight and learns that the colonists conducted evacuation exercises under the guise of fire drills.
*A [[Cavil]] voices his despair at the continued bloodshed, [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] agrees. Many of the Cylons disagree significantly as to what to do to reestablish control. A [[Number Five]] says that, if the worse comes to worst, that they can just nuke the city.
*Saul Tigh learns of his wife's betrayal and is visibly shocked by it.
*Sharon Agathon heads into the [[New Caprica Detention Center]] and gets the [[launch key]]s for the Colonial ship. Three enters the secured room, immediately recognizes her, stops Agathon and tells her that [[Hera|her daughter]] is alive. Unwilling to consider this matter for now, Agathon shoots the Three in the legs: "Adama wouldn't lie to me."
*''Galactica'' is given word that the launch keys have been retrieved, and after a rousing speech by Admiral Adama, begins preparations for the jump to New Caprica.

== Questions ==

*Roslin and Zarek seem to have reconciled their differences and become friends. Given Saul Tigh's feeling that Roslin will resume the Presidency once humanity has left [[New Caprica]], and that Zarek used to be Baltar's vice president, will he assume the mantle of vice president under Laura Roslin?
**Or, will Zarek claim the presidency by legal succession if Baltar is removed from office?
*A Cavil mentions that he has different sensations after each download. He suffers a slight headache after the first and, after the third, a sensation like a white hot poker inside his skull. Is there damage to the consciousness during each downloading and is there a point where after so many downloads the consciousness is destroyed or corrupted?
**In the podcast for this episode, [[Ronald D. Moore]] reveals that the intent of Cavil's description was to show that there is a "cost" associated with downloading.
***Although [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raiders]] are not sentient to same degree as humanoid Cylons, [[Sharon Agathon]] describes a similar traumatizing after repeated deaths of the berserking Raider known as [[Scar (Raider)|Scar]].
*[[Number Three]] had commented in "[[Downloaded]]" on feeling refreshed like starting a new life when describing her download experience. [[Caprica-Six]] expressed adjustment issues, including her [[Cylon-Related Hallucinations|visions]] of Gaius Baltar.
*Are the [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Lords of Kobol|Lords of Kobol]] real? Why are they sending accurate dreams to a Cylon? Why is a human oracle helping Three interpret the dreams?
**The gods are "real," at least as historical entities that lived on Kobol, a fact that even the Cylons acknowledge. The Cylons (and a number of Colonials) dispute their actual divinity. The Colonials appear to have some foresight from the gods through their [[oracle]]s. The connection of the Lords of Kobol to the Cylons is a curious (and unexplained) event in the case of the dreams of Number Three.
*Why does Doctor Cottle work to heal critically injured Cylons instead of just letting them die and be resurrected?
**The Cylons might want to minimize the trauma of downloading into a new body, although comments from Number Three to Cottle disputes this.
**Cottle is a physician, and has likely taken a vocational pledge to aid. Allowing a sentient being to die, regardless of their ideology, is breaching this oath through omission of action. He helped [[Sharon Agathon]] through her pregnancy for the same reasons.
***At least in TV drama, doctors in wartime have an affinity for helping everyone. There are plenty of [[Wikpedia:M*A*S*H (TV series)|M*A*S*H]] episodes that illustrate this.
*Where is "[[Download City]]"?
**It is likely that [[Seelix|Seelix's]] use of the phrase "Download City" is merely a euphemism for the download process the humanoid Cylon models go through.
**Download City may also be a reference to a possible downloading facility present on New Caprica.
***The Cylons would likely keep such a facility hidden to all humans on the planet, no matter what their relationship is to the Cylon occupation. A repeated destruction by suicide or planted bomb of a download facility on New Caprica would spell death-of-consciousness for all agents there if basestars aren't actually used for this purpose (this isn't likely, else the [[Resurrection Ship]] would not have been protected ''by'' basestars).
*Is there any possibility at all that Adama wasn't aware of Roslin's plans for Hera?
**There are no direct indications that Adama is aware of Roslin's conspiracy regarding the baby. Given the positive changes in his relationship with Sharon Agathon, that seems to now be based on complete mutual trust, it is unlikely that he would keep such a profound secret from her, if he was aware of it.
**Additionally, Adama was quite direct with Helo regarding the plans to abort the child. Whatever his relationship with Sharon, it seems unlikely that Adama would rob Helo of his paternal rights in this way, particularly after Helo [[Epiphanies|brings up their respective fatherhood]].
**Dr. Cottle is a military officer and his actions would have to have been cleared through Adama. There may well be other reasons why Agathon wasn't told, including keeping the information from the Cylons in the event she was captured or downloaded.
***In military parlance, the president's authority supersedes that of an admiral, and a military officer does not need to report back to his commanding officer orders that originated from the president.
****However, Adama and Roslin agreed that ''all'' military matters rested with the Admiral, whereas Roslin was the civilian leader of the fleet. It stands to reason that Adama would have known.
**The expression on Adama's face during his conversation with Sharon Agathon in "[[Occupation]]" suggests that he is aware of the conspiracy regarding Hera.
***Said expression may also be a reference to his guilt over the whole situation with Sharon Agathon/Boomer/Number Eight in general, and not a specific reference to Hera.
*What other operations are the Cylons busy with elsewhere in the universe, that are straining their resources for their experiment on New Caprica (also referenced to by Ron Moore in his podcast)?
*Will some humans refuse to leave once the escape begins?
*Will the escapees block proven or suspected collaborators from boarding the escaping ships?
**How many, if any, of the New Caprica Police are publically known, and once the escape begins, what will be their ultimate fate?
*Adama's plan to use only ''Galactica'' and the ships remaining on the ground on New Caprica seems a bit unrealistic given the fact that there are over 39,000 colonists on the planet. How will they find room for all of the evacuees?
**It is very reasonable to assume that the carrying capacity of the ships approximates the number of people on the planet, since it is very resource-intensive to move people around in the ''Battlestar Galactica'' universe. The attrition suffered by the Colonials only improves this probability.
**Will the Colonials find time to also evacuate much of their critically-rationed supplies and equipment as well as themselves during the chaos of evacuation?

== Analysis ==
* The [[Number Three]] that has been having dreams about Hera saw [[Sharon Agathon]] and was able to tell that she was the copy that had been left with Helo on Caprica. She may have deduced this from the fact that Sharon was taking the launch keys, or she may have been able to sense her identity somehow.
* Roslin's line about [[Hera]], "She may well be the shape of things to come", echoes similar lines by Six in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]" and by Adama in "[[Valley of Darkness]]". "The Shape of Things to Come" is also the title of the orchestral music piece at the end of "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]".
*Anders seems to know, or at least suspect, what is so special about Maya's child.
*[[Caprica-Six]] has been [[Cylon rebirthing tank|redownloaded]] after her "death" in [[Precipice]]. She was not "boxed".
*The Cylons on New Caprica appear to not have any sort of attachment to the humans they rule as evidenced by their willingness to just nuke the colony if they can't make it work as desired. This contradicts the revelation that their earlier attempt at genocide was a mistake. This is additional evidence of fundamental contradictions and disconnects within the Cylon psyche that they are blind to. Based on their actions to date, skinjob behavior tends toward the sociopathic with the exception of Boomer, Sharon and Caprica-Six.
*Baltar has become a suicidal drunk - his appearance has become slovenly and he appears to have given up on basic grooming.

== Notes ==

* There is also a comic called ''[[Exodus!]]'', which covers the events of [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|the Original Series]]' episode, "[[Saga of a Star World]]" (Part 2).
* This is the first episode where viewers have seen an [[oracle]]. Oracles such as [[Pythia]] and [[Galen Tyrol]]'s mother have been mentioned but not seen.
* Tyrol inexplicably lost his beard before this episode. This was necessary because Aaron Douglas's scenes were shot weeks after the main part of the episode, when he had already shaved and it was felt that a fake beard would not be convincing.
*[[Chamalla]] is a bitter herb, and oracles sometimes use candy to sweeten it up.
*According to [[Ronald Moore]]'s podcast, in earlier drafts [[Jammer]] was going to die during the shootout at the execution site. However, he decided that the character would be used in later episodes of the season.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''Before Lee Adama departs ''Galactica'':''
:'''Admiral William Adama''': I'll see you at the rendezvous point.
:'''Commander Lee Adama''': Eighteen hours. Try not to be late.
:'''William Adama''': I'm getting old; I'm a little slow, but I'll be there.
:'''Lee Adama''': Gods, I wish I could talk you out of this...
:'''William Adama''': You can't. You tried.
:'''Lee Adama''': You know, Dad, um...
:'''William Adama''': Don't. Don't make me cry on my own hangar deck.

*''During the [[Salt Line Ceremony]] on the hangar deck:''
:'''Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson''': Their enemies will divide them, their colonies broken in the fiery chasm of space. The shining days renounced by a multitude of dark sacrifices. Yet still they will remain. Always together.

*''As Galactica prepares to return to New Caprica:''
:'''Admiral Adama''': This is the Admiral. You've heard the news. You know the mission. You should also know that there is only one way that this mission ends, and that's with the successful rescue of our people off of New Caprica. Look around you. Take a good look at the men and women that stand next to you. Remember their faces, for one day you will tell your children and your grandchildren that you served with such men and women as the universe has never seen. And together you accomplished a feat that will be told and retold down through the ages, and find immortality as only the Gods once knew. I'm proud to serve with you. Good hunting.

== Official Statements ==

== Guest Stars ==

*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Tyrol]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]] (credit only)
*[[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Amanda Plummer]] as [[Oracle]] [[Selloi Dodona|Selloi]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
*[[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[Cottle]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Cavil]]
*[[Erica Cerra]] as [[Maya]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[Brad Dryborough]] as Lt. [[Hoshi]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
*[[Madeline Parker]] as [[Kacey]]
*[[Dominic Zamprogna]] as [[James Lyman|James "Jammer" Lyman]]
*[[imdb:nm0669826|Eileen Pedde]] as [[Mathias]]
*[[imdb:nm0356501|Jennifer Halley]] as [[Seelix]]
*[[imdb:nm0730455|Ryan Robbins]] as [[Connor]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Bradley Thompson]]
[[Category:Episodes written by David Weddle]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Félix Enríquez Alcalá]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Matthew Bennett/Archive 1

2006-03-14T21:47:56Z

Mitchy:

Is it just me or does this guy have a real Kevin Spacey thing going on. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 15:47, 14 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Number Six/Archive 1

2006-03-14T21:24:00Z

Mitchy: /* Baltar's Six */

==Another Number Six==

Wasn't there another Number Six encountered and killed by Starbuck in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]? --[[User:Blacklight|Blacklight]]

:There are many copies, of course, and because they are identical, it is impossible to know if a specific copy was killed. Six is everywhere! Best to mention the copy only when they do something distinctive or have a specific identity in an episode, such as Godfrey and Gina, or Baltar's Six. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:43, 1 October 2005 (EDT)

:Actually that was one of the "standard" "Caprican Overseer Models" as evidenced by her black jacket. ---Ricimer, 10 October, 2005

==Notes move==
Spencerian - I put the notes back in their old position based on the conversation Day and I had at [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Characters/Archive01#Layout in Humano-Cylon Articles]]. As I said there, there are many cases where notes, points of analysis, etc. may be applicable only to individual copies of a particular humano-cylon, or to the entire model line. If you disagree, please re-open the conversation on the [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Characters|Characters talk page]].--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:48, 10 October 2005 (EDT)

:Done. See the page. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:14, 10 October 2005 (EDT)

==The Many Deaths of Six==
Just having some fun on the talk page here; but it's fun to think of just how many times and ways Six has died (after seeing the part that said "copies have been destroyed in several episodes).
Number Six has been killed by methods including:
*By broken glass from windows exploding inwards from the shockwave of a distant nuclear blast.
*Shot in the back by another humanoid Cylon, Caprica-Sharon.
*Pushed off of a ledge and impaled on the Arrow of Apollo by Starbuck.
*Brained over the head with a fire extinguisher by Starbuck.

To quote Third Rock From The Sun, "We just kept hitting it, and hitting it, but it ''just wouldn't die!''". --Ricimer, 10 October, 2005

: Was Six killed on the Arrow, or was she impaled on debris on the floor where they landed? I'm pretty sure it was NOT the Arrow...worth looking again. We don't know that the "extinguished" Six was killed, but she was certainly knocked out. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:26, 11 October 2005 (EDT)

:: She was not killed by the arrow at all. If you go back and look at the season finale, you will see that Six had a marine style "Ka-Bar" knife sticking out of her torso. IIRC, starbuck actually has the arrow in her hand. --Shogunmoon 12:45, 4 November 2005 (EST)

The Leobon and Doral general articles had the Death line filled. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness]] 16:11, 7 march 2006 (EST)

== Baltar's Six ==

This is admittedly farfetched, but might it be possible that both Baltar and Caprica Six uploaded, at least partially, into each other's brain? In the series, it has been repeatedly stated that Cylon and Human physiology are nearly identical until you get down to the cells. Though Cylons have silica pathways in their brains, it might be possible they still store memories chemically (perhaps only digitizing them upon upload), using these pathways only for the digital transference of memory. So, if memories of both species are stored the same, then the very method of transmission Caprica Six used to upload her consciousness might have inadvertently brought along a bit of Gaius, while transmitting a bit of her into ''his'' mind. The cause for this transference might well be the nuclear blast that she blocked with her body. Adding plausibility to this theory is the fact that this time period is still vague, as well, as nothing is shown of how exactly her shielding of Baltar saved him so completely, that he emerges dazed but relatively intact near the raptor piloted by Sharon. Crazy sounding, I know, but I'd love to hear the other theories out there.
-- [[User:Ravriem|Ravriem]] 23:47, 12 March 2006 (CST)

That's actually possible- there's one flaw, though: if parts of themselves were uploaded into the other, why don't they behave like the originals? Baltar-Six behaves nothing like Caprica-Six, and her Baltar is fairly different from the original. [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 08:01, 13 March 2006 (EST)

Good point. My only explanation would be that the entire personality didn't get uploaded. Perhaps only a portion, with certain key information or memories from the real Baltar and Six, that becomes incorporated into the subconcious and becomes a sort of Freudian gateway to their own inner doubts and fears. Granted, this becomes rather convoluted, but it still remains the only way I can see for ''both'' of them to be having this phenomenom without either of them knowing how or why. --[[User:Ravriem|Ravriem]] 17:03, 13 March 2006 (CST)

I guess you're right- unless they descide to twist this into a Count Iblis/Ship of Lights arc, and Six is actually a demoness (would that make Baltar the angel?). I'm sorry to sound if I keep trying to burst your ballon, but why wouldn't Six have figured out that's how Gaius got in her head? She would probably know a fair amount the process if she intended to employ it. [[User:Ragestorm|Ragestorm]] 07:39, 14 March 2006 (EST)

About shielding Baltar - I think perhaps the blast was quite far away, and she merely shielded him from the shattering glass of his windows. If this is the case, the circumstances of caprica-six's "death" are still wide open. --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 15:24, 14 March 2006 (CST)

== Natasi? ==

I've heard that "Natasi" is the name used in the mini-series novilization. However has the name been used anywhere else other than that? If so, we should be careful in the name's use... Otherwise I would make a note of it in the "Notes" section, but wouldn't introduce the name into the main article... Comments, questions or concerns anyone? -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 14:04, 9 December 2005 (EST)

:The fact that somebody had to comment on how it was pronounced ("Carver stated that he pronounces "Natasi" as "Nuh-TAH-see", though fans could really pronounce it any way they want.") would lead me to believe that it hadn't been spoken onscreen. Otherwise, it would be pretty evident. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:13, 9 December 2005 (EST)

::I'm the one that originally reported this here (I asked the question on GalacticaStation), and ''I'' don't think we should put it EVERYWHERE. All I wanted was a little footnote at the end of the "Baltar's original Six" entry. I don't think it should be casually used to refer to her; it's just a fun anecdote. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 15:09, 9 December 2005 (EST)

:::I don't mind using it where relevant (and cited), as long as nothing contradicts it. It stands to reason that Baltar didn't spend two years calling her "Hey you, with the platinum hair in the miniskirt." I wonder if "Epiphanies" will shed any light on this. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:18, 9 December 2005 (EST)

:::: I always figured he called her Sex-Bot 9000. ;) --[[User:Day|Day]] 16:03, 9 December 2005 (EST)

:::::According to James Callis in his Sci-Fi Magazine interview, what Baltar was initially calling her was something more like "Oh, gods! Oh...gods! Oh! My! GODS!" Seriously, however, since it appears in an official novelization, we could allow it, with suitable caveat that this is not aired content. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:10, 9 December 2005 (EST)

Merv, please explain your objection to this. I see no problem with the use of that term until it's explicitly contracted on-screen. Is this the case as of "Downloaded"? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:27, 24 February 2006 (EST)
:....I...did say, in the summary box on the dit; sorry, communication must remain short; just doing in im bursts at commercials more later.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 22:35, 24 February 2006 (EST)
::Kuralyov is explaining the situation to me on [[Talk:Caprica Six]].

==Gina's Rank on Pegasus==
Wouldn't it be fair to say that if Gina was eating in the same mess as Cain, that she was an officer? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:27, 7 January 2006 (EST)

:I got the idea that it was a communal mess that everyone ate in. Cain would have probably eaten with the crew to improve the loyalty and comraderie between herself and the crew. Gina was probably just a civilian draftee like [[Laird]] that probably lied her way onto the Pegasus, claiming to have skills good enough to get her off the doomed ship that she used to be on. But then again, if Gina was an officer on Pegasus, that would make the betrayal even deeper, leading to her extremely harsh punishment.--Ltcrashdown 02:32, 7 January 2006 (EST)

== Sara? ==

I am going back over the episodes to scan them for this, but I distinctly remember Baltar referring to Number Six as "Sara", and it appears clearly in the closed captioning/subtitles. Has anyone else caught this? --[[User:ThesposAZ|ThesposAZ]] 16:47, 15 January 2006 (EST)

:When? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:06, 16 January 2006 (EST)

== The Name "Godfrey" ==

According to http://german.about.com/library/blvornamen05.htm the name "Godfrey" is listed as English related to Old German "Gottfried", meaning "God's peace". I wasn't certain how acceptible this was as a source, so I didn't make an edit, but I thought I would at least leave an answer for the Citation Jihad. --[[User:Corvus|Corvus]] 07:26, 26 January 2006 (EST)

==Caprica Six Separation?==

I think it may be time to give Caprica Six her own article, since her character is even more developed than Shelley Godfrey or Gina who have their own. We now know more about her fate. We should, however, leave Mental Six in this article, with the standard sixes, or perhaps open a new article called "Cylon Related Hallucinations" which might include The Mentals (Six and Baltar) and all hallucinations related to them.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 25 February 2006
:I created the Hallucinations article, it has a copy of all the text in the Internal-Six section. Should we now turn that section into a link to the article?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:45, 14 March 2006 (EST)

Talk:Sharon Agathon/Archive 1

2006-03-12T17:16:47Z

Mitchy: /* Fiber Optics */

I'm not one to usually use the phrase "slam dunk", but this separation of the two Sharons into two character pages is ''Fantastic''!--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:04, 27 January 2006 (EST)

==Ragnar Valerii==
On re-viewing, it seems to me that Ragnar Valerii is almost certainly Caprica Valerii. Why else would she be wearing a Colonial flight suit? On the other hand, what is she doing all the way at Ragnar rather than preparing for her mission on Caprica? Are there so few of her that she had to pull double duty that week? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:36, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:That shes wearing the uniform is more likely a mistake, they hadn't thought of Caprica Valerii when they made the mini-series. Still, the two being one and the same is a good way to explain away said mistake. Her Caprica misson wouldn't really take any preparation, and the Cylons would probably make very efficient use of personnel.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 19:18, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:I disagree on this one. We know that there are dozens, nay, hundreds of duplicates of each Cylon model. Plus we don't know how they can share information. Further, Team Anders said that they had seen Cylons in uniform before, implying that it is ''not'' an uncommon sight or rare to see them in one. This combined with the other evidence leads me to thing that there is no real reason to '''assume''' one way or the other that it's the same one. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:06, 30 December 2005 (EST)

::Yeah, good points.--[[User:Undc23|Undc23]] 23:47, 30 December 2005 (EST)

:::Sharon just likes to wear Colonial flight suits, just like Doral likes to wear Colonial professional attire and Six likes to wear sexy Colonial dresses. I mean, it's really an affectation for Cylons to wear *any* sort of human clothing—and given comfortable enough conditions, such as those on the interior of a Basestar, they don't. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 18:55, 31 December 2005 (EST)
::::Actually, I got the impression that the Sharons on the Basestar were all naked because they were "fresh off the assembly line", as it were.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:49, 31 December 2005 (EST)
:::::Basestars produce Cylons? I thought only the Resurrection Ship could do that (oops :-X) [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:27, 1 January 2006 (EST)
::::::I guess there are some consequences for making it all up as you go. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:19, 1 January 2006 (EST)

Or--Humano-Cylons are individuals and dress (or not) as individuals and groups. Those aboard the Basestar had formed a community of sorts which saw no particular reason for clothes. The Sharon at Ragnar was one of those who--for reasons of her own (identification with her "sleeper" sister perhaps?) decided to wear a flight suit. [[User:Zahir|Zahir]] 12:45, 28 January 2006 (EST)

:I'm pretty sure they were naked because it was warm, humid, and moist in there. And the Resurrection Ship doesn't produce new Cylons, it re-embodies old ones. All the Eights seen in Downloaded, besides Boomer, were in earth-tones. --[[User:Noneofoyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 9:30, 4 March 2006 (EST)

==Caprica Sharon lies?==
Is Caprica Sharon lying about what she knows about the Cylons, and what she knows about the members of Galactica? Manipulating Starbuck in [[Scar]]? It seems given what we learned about Cylons in [[Downloaded]], she should not necessarily have the memories she claims to have. [[User:Huh?|Huh?]] 10:31, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:Matters of pure speculation; we've actually seen nothing that hints or implies that she is really hiding anything; personally, I don't think she is. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:22, 2 March 2006 (CST)

== Fiber Optics ==

Any speculation on how fiber optics could interface via the arm in such away that the interface wouldn't appear on medical scans? --[[User:Mitchy|Mitchy]] 11:16, 12 March 2006 (CST)

Talk:Sharon Agathon/Archive 1

2006-03-12T17:16:11Z

Mitchy: Fiber Optics