Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Mars Day/Archive 1

2006-10-11T06:09:48Z

MASON: Marsday could be Tuesday

Mars is not the first Roman god mentioned. Mercury is the Roman equivalent of Hermes. There may be other instances of Roman mythology cropping up, but that's the only one I know of. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:14, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:There is also [[The Eye of Jupiter]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:18, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
::Hermes Class battlestar is pure fanon --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:21, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:::I think Alpha was trying to contrast the name rather than suggest a fanon class. I added the relevant part back in. Yeah, I've noted that Roman issue in "Jupiter" as well. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:25, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
Why is there "holiday" in parenthesis after the article title? There's nothing else to disambiguate this from. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:10, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
: Good question. Judging from Mercifull's reasoning, he felt that it should be disambiguated as [[Colonial Day (holiday)]] was. Honestly, I think it should be moved back, since no disambiguation is necessary. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:07, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
::Marsday could also be Tuesday, for in French the word for Tuesday is Mardi, and its roots are Roman.
::Examples: (Monday -> Lundi -> Lune di -> Moon day) (Tuesday -> Mardi -> Mars di -> Mars day) (Wednesday -> Mercredi -> Mercure di -> Mercury day) (Thursday -> Jeudi -> Jupiter di -> Jupiter day)

::I know "di" isn't the french word for day, it's jour, but I think this is how the French days of the week were formed. I just thought I'd throw this in the fray for speculation's sake, I don't expect it to make it onto the article page. [[User:MASON|Mason]] 01:09, 11 October 2006 (CDT)

User:Mickey McGizzle

2006-06-29T05:30:22Z

MASON:

BAN THIS USER IMMEDIATELY
:I second the motion! Frakking Trolls!!! [[User:MASON|Mason]] 00:30, 29 June 2006 (CDT)

Scorpia Traveller

2006-05-28T15:33:54Z

MASON:

The '''''Scorpia Traveler''''' is a ship in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] that docked with ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' to offload civilians with business on the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]].

After disembarking from the ''Scorpia Traveler'', a copy of the Cylon agent [[Aaron Doral]] evaded security checkpoints, nearly succeeding in the assassination of [[William Adama]] in a suicide bombing ([[Litmus]]).

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Scorpia Traveller

2006-05-28T15:33:19Z

MASON:

The '''''Scorpia Traveler''''' is a ship in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] that docked with ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' to offload civilians with business on the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]].

After disembarking from the ''Scorpia Traveler'', a copy of the Cylon agent [[Aaron Doral]] evaded security checkpoints, nearly succeeding in the assassination of [[William Adama]] and in a suicide bombing ([[Litmus]]).

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Scorpia Traveller

2006-05-28T14:15:01Z

MASON: Grammar

The '''''Scorpia Traveler''''' is a ship in the [[The Fleet (RDM)|Colonial Fleet]] that docked with ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' to offload civilians with business on the [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]].

After disembarking from the ''Scorpia Traveler'', a copy of the Cylon agent [[Aaron Doral]] skipped past security checkpoints, nearly succeeding in the assassination of [[William Adama]] and in a suicide bombing ([[Litmus]]).

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Portal:Battlestar Galactica (RDM)/Season 2 Guide

2006-05-27T17:02:14Z

MASON:

{|
|-
! style="background-color: #421818; color: #F7FF63;" | Episode #
! style="background-color: #421818; color: #F7FF63;" | Title
! style="background-color: #421818; color: #F7FF63;" | Airdate
! style="background-color: #421818; color: #F7FF63;" | Screenshot
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 01
| [[Scattered]] ([[Talk:Scattered|Talk]])
| July 15, 2005
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Tighadama.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' Chaos is rampant as paramedics try to save Commander Adama's life after he is shot, and the Galactica is separated from the fleet.
'''Quote''' "''Bitch took my ride...''" -- Lt. [[Kara Thrace]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 02
| [[Valley of Darkness]] ([[Talk:Valley of Darkness|Talk]])'''
| July 22, 2005
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Valley of Darkness-Starbuck Helo.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' After rediscovering [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]], [[Cylon Centurion]]s board ''[[Galactica]]'' and wreak havoc, and [[Lee Adama]] and a rag-tag group of pilots and marines attempt to thwart the Cylon's methodical plans.
'''Quote''' "''Your girlfriend’s from a lovely family, good people.''" -- Lt. [[Kara Thrace]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 03
| [[Fragged]] ([[Talk:Fragged|Talk]])
| July 29, 2005
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Tigh in Command.JPG|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' Colonel Tigh must deal with the Quorum of Twelve and the press over Roslin's removal from the presidency, while Cylon Centurions are preparing to hinder any rescue attempt on Kobol by setting up an anti-aircraft battery.
'''Quote''' "''Get these people off my ship.''" -- Col. [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 04
| [[Resistance]] ([[Talk:Resistance|Talk]])'''
| August 5, 2005
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Sharondeath.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' Riots break out in [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]] over Tigh's declaration of martial law, and a group of ''Galactica'' crewmembers led by [[Lee Adama]] smuggle [[Laura Roslin]] out of the brig and into [[Tom Zarek]]'s hands. Meanwhile, [[Kara Thrace]] and [[Karl Agathon]] fall in with a group of humans who have survived on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] and started a resistance movement.
'''Quote''' "''Well, Mr. Zarek, it would seem that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.''" -- President [[Laura Roslin]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 05
| [[The Farm]] ([[Talk:The Farm|Talk]])'''
| August 12, 2005
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Galacticafarm.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' [[Kara Thrace]] is shot and wakes up in a remote hospital facility on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]], and learns that her friendly doctor has his own plans for her future.
'''Quote''' "''There are many copies. You'll see [[Sharon Valerii|her]] again.''" -- Commander [[William Adama]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 06
| [[Home, Part I]] ([[Talk:Home, Part I|Talk]])'''
| August 19, 2005
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Home pt1 debate.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' The refugee fleet splits into two factions: one led by [[Laura Roslin|Roslin]] and [[Tom Zarek|Zarek]], the other by [[William Adama]]. However, Apollo is less than enthusiastic to be working with Zarek.
'''Quote''' "''You've missed a few catastrophes while you were away.''" -- Cpt. [[Lee Adama]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 07
| [[Home, Part II]] ([[Talk:Home, Part II|Talk]])'''
| August 26, 2005
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Tomb_of_athena_lobby.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' Adama leads a mission to Kobol to find President Roslin and her team of tomb-hunters, reconcile with his son, and reunite the divided fleet.
'''Quote''' 
:Cmdr. [[William Adama|Adama]]: ''I thought we were already in the [[Tomb of Athena|Tomb]]''.
:Lt. [[Kara Thrace|Thrace]]: ''I think that was just the lobby''.
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 08
| [[Final Cut]] ([[Talk:Final Cut|Talk]])
| September 9, 2005
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:S2finalcut.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' In an effort to stem [[The Fleet|the Fleet]]'s growing resentment toward the military, [[William Adama|Commander Adama]] and [[Laura Roslin|President Roslin]] allow an outspoken anti-military journalist complete access to the [[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]] and its crew.

'''Quote''' 
: '''[[D'anna Biers]]:''' ''You seem to think that your pilots deserve special consideration''.
: '''[[Lee Adama]]:''' ''Actually, I do. Like everyone else, my pilots have lost their families, their friends, everyone they ever cared about; but on top of that they're asked to put their lives on the line every single day, for a fleet that seems more interested in what they do wrong than in what they do right. They're not asking for your pity, but they damn well deserve your respect''.
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 09
| [[Flight of the Phoenix]] ([[Talk:Flight of the Phoenix|Talk]])
| September 16, 2005
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Blackbird FotP.JPG|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] throws himself into the task of constructing a new [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] from scratch, despite the [[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]] crew's misgivings and apprehension. [[Karl Agathon|Helo]] must deal with the repercussions of his relationship with [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] on Caprica. A Cylon computer virus begins to manifest itself in Galactica's computers, putting the ship and the crew in danger.
'''Quote''' "''Oh, you're much too modest. After what we've been through, it would be very easy to give up, to lose hope. But not here. Not today. This is more than a ship, [[Galen Tyrol|Chief]]. This is an act of faith. It is proof that despite all we've lost, we keep trying. And we will get through this, all of us, together. I promise.''" -- President [[Laura Roslin]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 10
| [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]] ([[Talk:Pegasus (episode)|Talk]])
| September 23, 2005
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Caingalact.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' [[The Fleet (RDM)|The Fleet]] discovers that the [[Mercury-class|Battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' survived the destruction of the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonies]], only to have [[Helena Cain|Admiral Cain]] take command of ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' and enforce her own draconian military doctrine on the Fleet.
'''Quote''' "''Welcome back to the [[Colonial Fleet]].''" -- Admiral [[Helena Cain]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 11
| [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]] ([[Talk:Resurrection Ship, Part I|Talk]])
| January 6, 2006
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Resurrection Ship pt2-Planning.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' A potential battle between the [[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]] and the [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]] is only averted by [[Kara Thrace|Lt. Thrace]]'s return from her recon mission with important tactical information on the unknown [[Cylon]] ship.
'''Quote''' "''I don't want things to get better. I want to die.''" -- [[Gina]]
|-
! style="background-color: #421818; color: #F7FF63;" | Episode #
! style="background-color: #421818; color: #F7FF63;" | Title
! style="background-color: #421818; color: #F7FF63;" | Airdate
! style="background-color: #421818; color: #F7FF63;" | Screenshot
<noinclude></noinclude>
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 12
| [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]] ([[Talk:Resurrection Ship, Part II|Talk]])
| January 13, 2006
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Gina-Cain.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' The battlestars ''Galactica'' and ''Pegasus'' engage in [[Attack on the Resurrection Ship|an all-out battle]] to destroy the Cylon “Resurrection” ship.
'''Quote''' "It's what you said at the ceremony before the attack, when Galactica was being decommissioned. You gave a speech, it sounded like it wasn't the one you prepared. You said that humanity was a flawed creation, and that people still kill one another for petty jealousy and greed. You said that humanity never asked itself why it deserved to survive. Maybe you don't.
" -- [[Sharon Valerii]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 13
| [[Epiphanies]] ([[Talk:Epiphanies|Talk]])
| January 20, 2006
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:2BATejC05.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' Admiral [[William Adama]] questions whether or not [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]]'s pregnancy should be aborted. Meanwhile Roslin's health declines rapidly as a pro-Cylon peace group attempts to sow violence and discontent within the Fleet.
'''Quote''' "One of the most interesting things about being President is that you don't have to explain yourself. To anyone." -- President [[Richard Adar]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 14
| [[Black Market]] ([[Talk:Black Market|Talk]])
| January 27, 2006
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Black Market-Lee.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' Captain [[Lee Adama]], battling haunting demons of his own from a spurned love lost on Caprica, investigates the murder of new ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' commander [[Jack Fisk]], and uncovers a black market that strains the resources of the Fleet.
'''Quote''' "You're not gonna shoot." -- [[Phelan]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 15
| [[Scar]] ([[Talk:Scar|Talk]])
| February 3, 2006
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Scar-Firing.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' An ace Cylon Raider, nicknamed "[[Scar (Raider)|Scar]]" by the [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] pilots, has been causing problems for the Fleet. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Louanne Katraine|Kat]] compete to hunt it down while Starbuck pines for [[Samuel Anders|"a dead guy"]].
'''Quote''' 
:'''[[Lee Adama]]''': ''You know what gets me? I know that in two weeks, I won't remember his face. I can't remember any of their faces after they're killed. No matter how hard I try, they just fade.''
:'''[[Kara Thrace]]''': ''I don't even remember their names.''
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 16
| [[Sacrifice]] ([[Talk:Sacrifice|Talk]])
| February 10, 2006
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Sacrifice3.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' ''[[Cloud 9]]'s'' lounge is under attack by terrorists who are convinced that [[Sharon Valerii (Caprica copy)|Sharon Valerii]] is playing the military. The leader of this quartet, [[Sesha Abinell]], demands that the invaluable Valerii be brought to her -- otherwise [[Ellen Tigh]], [[Anastasia Dualla]], [[Lee Adama]], [[Billy Keikeya]] and others will be executed.
'''Quote''' "''I think there's part of you that looks into that thing's eyes and still sees that young girl that reported aboard two years ago as a rook pilot. Well, it's not. It never was. Bill, it's a machine.''" -- Col. [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 17
| [[The Captain's Hand]] ([[Talk:The Captain's Hand|Talk]])
| February 17, 2006
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Adamas.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' When two Raptors go missing after a training mission, new ''Pegasus'' commander [[Barry Garner]] challenges Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]]'s orders by sending his battlestar directly into the rescue zone — and a trap.
'''Quote''' "''In your opinion, off the record, what was Garner's flaw?''" -- Admiral [[William Adama]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 18
| [[Downloaded]] ([[Talk:Downloaded|Talk]])
| February 24, 2006
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Cylon resurrection.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylon]] society is revealed when a [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Cylon's consciousness]] is downloaded into a new body following her death. The conquerors of occupied [[Caprica]] hail two "heroes of the Cylon," who both resist their new celebrity status.
'''Quote''' "''Humans don't respect life the way we do.''" -- [[Number Three]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 19
| [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]] ([[Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I|Talk]])
| March 3, 2006
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' As the presidential election looms just weeks away, the accidental discovery of a habitable planet sparks debate in the Fleet: Colonize? Or keep seeking Earth? Meanwhile, Starbuck leads a rescue mission of Raptors back to Caprica to save Anders and his resistance.
'''Quote''' "''Do you know how useless prayer is? Chanting, and singing, and mucking about with old half-remembered lines of bad poetry? And you know what it gets you? Exactly nothing.''" -- [[Brother Cavil]]
|- style="background-color: #421818; text-align: center;" |
| height="10" | 20
| [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]] ([[Talk:Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|Talk]])
| March 10, 2006
| rowspan="2" | [[Image:Baltarlaydownburdensii.jpg|200px]]
|- style="background-color: #421818" |
| colspan="3" valign="top" | '''Summary''' Everything turns on its head as the survivors vote for a new president -- and vote for their fate.
'''Quote''' "''Judgment day.''" -- [[Number Six]]
|}
<div align="center">
{{subpage edit|{{FULLPAGENAME}}/Season 2 Guide}}
</div>

File talk:BSG-Pan-Galactic-Liner.jpg

2006-05-26T00:10:44Z

MASON:

I've recently become suspicious that many of these passenger liner variants may be fan renderings. In order to keep this image, we need a link to the original source of the render. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:57, 11 May 2006 (CDT)

I'm tagging this for deletion unless someone supplies a source. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:33, 21 May 2006 (CDT)

:I stumbled on this on a fan site with several others. This is a fan render and should be deleted. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:50, 25 May 2006 (CDT)

::Link? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 08:54, 25 May 2006 (CDT)

:::How can you tell that it is a fan rendering? It bears a strikingly similar rendering quality to other confirmed Zoic renderings? Has it been "re-decalled." [[User:MASON|Mason]] 10:38, 25 May 2006 (CDT)

::::[http://www.galactica2003.net/colonials/passenger.shtml Here] is where I found the image. Although I can't say whether I've seen this ship on screen, I find it highly dubious that it is a fan rendering, and count it as a legitimate Zoic rendering. The orange ship variants accompanying it have been [[:Image:Passenger2.jpg|seen]] in the series. Since Spencerian hasn't posited the website that he believes confirms this image as a fan creation, I am going to assume that it was this one, [http://www.battlestarhelios.com/bsg/ships.php Battlestar Helios]. At the bottom of the page, it declares that "Some of the images used on this page came from [http://www.galactica2003.net Galactica2003] Others were rendered by me using 3D Studio Max." Upon viewing the page, it is clear that he actually only rendered one image himself, in 3DS Max, it can be seen [http://www.battlestarhelios.com/bsg/images/ships/viper2_side.jpg here]. The rest of the images came from the same source that I used, which includes confirmed Zoic renderings. I haven't been able to elicit a response from the creator of the page, but since we use many images that are identical to those at Galactica2003, I think we should research this further before deleting this image. [[User:MASON|Mason]] 15:57, 25 May 2006 (CDT)

:::::I'm sorry, I need to see the original zoic source before I can sign off on this. We've been far too lax in accepting any official-looking 3D rendering as the real deal, without attribution, and that needs to end. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:47, 25 May 2006 (CDT)

::::::I agree, but does the image need to be removed from the collected files, or simply unlinked from any articles it is associated with until its origin is firmly established? [[User:MASON|Mason]] 18:42, 25 May 2006 (CDT)

:::::::It's already unlinked, except form the Island, and I'm not demanding an immediate deletion. Do you think you have a lead on the original? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:07, 25 May 2006 (CDT)

::::::::Thanks for the clarification, I'm on it. :) [[User:MASON|Mason]] 19:10, 25 May 2006 (CDT)

File talk:BSG-Pan-Galactic-Liner.jpg

2006-05-25T23:42:30Z

MASON:

File talk:BSG-Pan-Galactic-Liner.jpg

2006-05-25T20:57:16Z

MASON:

File talk:BSG-Pan-Galactic-Liner.jpg

2006-05-25T15:38:53Z

MASON:

Number One

2006-03-05T23:48:23Z

MASON:

Brother '''Cavil''' is a priest who provides counsel for [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]) after Tyrol's maddened attack against [[Cally]]. Cavil identifies the source of Tyrol's anxiety as arising from the fear that he could be a [[Cylon agent]], awaiting activation.

A somewhat eccentric figure, Cavil is a surprisingly harsh critic of prayer for a priest, but claims to have been preaching "longer than you [Tyrol] have been sucking down oxygen."

Cavil is portrayed by [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096684/ Quantum Leap]'s Dean Stockwell.

[[Category:Characters|Cavil]]
[[Category:RDM|Cavil]]

Sources:Correspondence with Jose Perez

2006-02-25T22:45:48Z

MASON: fix

== Correspondence with Visual Effects Artist and Designer, of the Re-Imagined Battlestar Pegasus, Jose A. Perez ==

From: Jose A Perez

Subject: Re: Pegasus Design

Date: October 12, 2005 6:17:05 PM EDT (CA)

To: Greg Perkins

hello there...

The new design was somewhat of a cross between the look of the old class battlestars, and yet with elements of the new one..Aside from that, it has mostly hull plating (to absorb more damage) , as opposed to the [[Galactica]] which has more ribbing...

The harder edges were intentional as well, to match the interior style of the sets more.

Jose A Perez Visual FX Artist

On Oct 12, 2005, at 3:17 AM, Greg Perkins wrote:

Name: Greg Perkins

Comments: Would you be able to comment on the design of the new [[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]? Was the new design meant to resemble the original series' Galactica and Pegasus Battlestars?

I'm asking in order to make an update to the BSG Wiki: http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=Mercury_class_battlestar
Thanks,

Greg Perkins

[[Category: Sources]]

Talk:The Captain's Hand/Archive 1

2006-02-20T05:25:47Z

MASON: /* Landing Strips & Weaponry */

==Episode Impressions==

Well I think that was a damn good episode, a good improvement over some of the previous episodes. Tricky for some article editing but overall I know you guys will do a great job on the page. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 23:02, 17 February 2006 (EST)

:Not bad at all. [[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 23:05, 17 February 2006 (EST)

::I agree. Some tense moments, and the Baltar announcement kinda threw me for a second, but overall a refresing change of pace. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:13, 17 February 2006 (EST)

::Great Episode I thought. The abortion debate was an fascinating piece of art imitating life in my opinion. It will be interesting to see how this pans out as the show continues. --[[User:Simmons|Simmons]] 10:55, 19 February 2006 (EST)

:: With the last few episodes, I was becoming increasingly disillusioned with the apparently magical powers of RDM and his writing team. This episode is more like what I (and, I think, we all) have come to expect from Galactica. [[User:Shred|Shred]] 13:47, 19 February 2006 (EST)

== Not ANOTHER Commander! ==

This episode was topnotch, yes. But this leaves us wikipedians with a bit of a problem. Enter "Commander Adama" and you get William Adama. We'll need a disambig for this new change. Betting that Lee's promotion is temporary, of course. And, for me at least, there's the matter of the new commander living long enough--Pegasus goes through commanders now like I go through a bag of cookies. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:08, 17 February 2006 (EST)
:Perhaps maybe the Pegasus will be around longer than we thought? [[User:Joemc72|Joe McCullough]] 23:10, 17 February 2006 (EST)
::Or maybe we'll have another Adama cliffhanger, this time with Lee... -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:13, 17 February 2006 (EST)
:::Methinks those nuke hits will come back to haunt them (especially with the nuke Baltar took coming into play) and Adama will go for either, a) another space walk when the Pegasus goes boom or b) He will be aboard Galactica laughing at Tigh for still being a Colonel. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 23:21, 17 February 2006 (EST)

Personally, as a US Navy vet, I think this was a huge breach in protocol. Granted, I'm loving the show and plotwise it's a good move, the reality of it is that if anything, Tigh would have been promoted to Commander (and probably should have been after the ''Pegasus'' lost its two seniormost officers) and '''perhaps''' Lee promoted to Colonel as the XO. Obviously, there was the huge flareup from when Tigh had command of the fleet, but even still, as XO of ''Galactica'', it should have went to him.--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 23:19, 17 February 2006 (EST)

:I agree with you, and it might make for some good Tigh material later on, with him and Ellen being pissed off for being passed over. But I think because of the reactions he got within the fleet, there would be more trouble then its worth. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 23:21, 17 February 2006 (EST)
::Pretty much what I was thinking as well, especially since ADM Adama and Tigh go way back, so he'll probably see this as a major snub. So again, as a plot issue, I think it works. But I think the whole thing probably could have been handled a bit more realistically. But that's just me. ^_^;;;--'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 23:25, 17 February 2006 (EST)
:::Hey, all! New here. And same thoughts here, but not just from Tigh, but maybe from the fleet. Kara didn't seem to care one way or another (or, at least, didn't voice it), but I think some might be extremely angry that Lee went from Major to Commander in a month. [[User:Michael|Michael]] 23:29, 17 February 2006 (EST)
::::As much as it was a breach in protocol, [[Saul_Tigh|Col. Tigh]] might not be miffed as bad as everyone thinks. Recall from [[Scattered]], that he really wasn't interested in "the big chair". I'm thinking that Ellen may have the larger issue of the two. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 23:41, 17 February 2006 (EST)
:::::True, but there is still the matter of OPLANs, NAVREGs (or whatever serves for the fleet). It was as much rules and regulations - some of the stuff that ADM Adama is supposed to adhere to, especially during wartime - as Tigh's preferences. Granted, I'm probably reading a bit much of real-world influences into this, and I understand that they did it for the plot, but again, I really expect some backlash to happen, both on-screen and somewhat amongst the really, really nitpicky fans. Like me. ^_- --'''[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]]''' '''''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]''''' 23:54, 17 February 2006 (EST)

:::::The passing over of Colonel Tigh for the post of ''Pegasus'' Commander needs to be addressed at a later time I believe. Either he was offered the position and passed, his attitude to receiving a command as stated in "Scattered" was well known to Admiral Adama and he knew the offer of promotion would be rejected or Admiral Adama decided he needed him where he was...Hopefully this will be addressed in a later episode. A throwaway line from Admiral Adama to Colonel Tigh such as "Im glad you stayed" or "You know it was yours if you wanted it" would wrap it up and end this speculation! :)--[[User:Simmons|Simmons]] 10:03, 19 February 2006 (EST)

Was Apollo promoted to Commander or simply given command of the Pegasus and stayed at the rank of Major ?. After all it is possible to be the Captain (and referred to as the Captain) of a ship without holding the rank of Captain. Maybe the same thing holds for the Commander designation. Although being given the pips does confuse things but it does seem strange that he jumped almost two command ranks in one go. --[[User:Rexpop|Rexpop]] 02:12, 18 February 2006 (EST)

: Just some thoughts. By its very nature the command structure of the Fleet must be looser than it would be in "normal" circumstances. Seniority has become less important than fitting individuals to function. Tigh has shown himself to be in some ways a superior XO, one upon whom Adama depends. Also, I would maintain that Tigh depends no less upon Bill Adama in order to function. But I wonder if any other "cross-pollenization" of battlestar crews might be wise. [[User:Zahir|Zahir]] 11:57, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Apollo was indeed promoted to the rank of Commander Rexpop. Personally, since I haven't read the Articles of Colonial Field Promotions...or whatever...I can't say that Lee's promotion was in breach of any protocol...maybe IRL it would be...but in the RDM universe, who knows.
Personally I think that the promotion to Commander reflects Apollos actions. He assumed command of the Pegasus when she was allready faceing 3 Basestars, with potentially up to 2,400 Raiders, and the Pegasus allready heavily damaged...and he was able to not only pull it out of the fire and escape, but heavily damaged/crippled one Basestar in the process. I'd say that he deserves the promotion to Commander. --[[User:Strato|Strato]]

On further thought it makes sense that Lee was probably the only viable candidate in fleet. The reasoning is as follows:

First up lets identify the potential candidates that we know about on Galactica. After the attack the command staff on Galactica was Adama, Colonel Tigh, Captain Kelly, Major Cottle and Lee. There are no other senior officers that we know about and given that Captain Kelly was second officer its unlikely there were others.

On Pegasus things are a little more vague. We know that Fisk was a Colonel and that Garner was not a command officer but the chief engineer so its likely that he held at least the rank of Major. With both officers gone it is likely the highest command officer left on Pegasus was probably no higher than the rank of Major. And given that Pegasus was in for a refit at the time of the attack it was likely that like Galactica the ship was light on senior officers.

So at the end we are left with four candidates that we the audience knows about. Tigh, Lee, Cottle and Kelly. Tigh has made it clear that he doesn't want command and Adama would likely pass him over due to his personal issues with the bottle. Cottle would probably not be considered due to not being a command officer and the lack of doctors in the fleet.

Kelly is a good candidate and is probably on a par with Lee, but where Lee wins out over Kelly is that Kelly doesn't have experience in commanding a Battlestar, only as an XO. Admittedly Lee only has one engagement under his belt, but he was thrown into the fire and came out singed but intact. Kelly doesn't have that so that puts Lee ahead. So under the circumstances (and the limited pool to draw on) Lee is pretty much is the best candidate that we know about for the job.

Now the only question that I have is why hasn't Kelly been made first officer of the Pegasus ?. It would seem that he would be a natural choice given that it was strongly hinted in the mini-series that he was in line for a promotion to a first officer position after his tour of duty was over. --[[User:Rexpop|Rexpop]] 14:56, 18 February 2006 (EST)

:Don't forget that Cain had already had her first XO executed, so Col. Fisk had probably been promoted from a lower rank already. As for Kelly vs. Lee Adama, it's not entirely clear which of them have seniority. Lee was under arrest when Kelly was acting as Tigh's XO. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:12, 18 February 2006 (EST)

==Survivor Count==
The survivor count went down by six even though we saw seven deaths in the last episode. This could be explained by the well established fact that cylon deaths do not result in a dropping of the count. It has long been speculated that [[Billy|Billy]] is/was a cylon. If this is true it would explain the loss of only six from the count. That said, it is also possible, even probable that there was a birth. In the podcast for [[Sacrifice|Sacrifice]] it is said that Billy was killed off just because the actor portraying him wished to pursue other projects. Thoughts?--[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 02:30, 18 February 2006 (EST)

:No, for two reasons: One, we actually saw the White Board of Death to confirm numbers, Two: occasionally there are births in the fleet which make the number go up slightly. Although this could never account for the sudden, unexplained gain of 50 people at a time or something, it does go to explain why sometimes there are episodes where a lot of people die, but the survivor count doesn't drop that much.
--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:27, 18 February 2006 (EST)

::I don't understand what you're saying. Im not disputing the numbers, im giving a possible explination for why the number went down by only six when we see seven people (pehaps one of them a cylon) dying in the previous episode. --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 03:37, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Seven people die on screen. 2 more die off screen. 3 babies are born off screen. We don't hear about these second two events, but they still ''happen'', and when we see the renewed survivor count, it's a ''Net'' loss of six, and so forth. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:56, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Whether Billy is a Cylon is not an issue for the Survivor Count (fleet population). President Roslin wouldn't yet be aware, so it would not be a factor in the population count, and therefore to mention the speculation about Billy wasn't really relevant. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 04:15, 18 February 2006 (EST)

Yeah thats a good point that the president wouldnt know, youre right. --[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 21:38, 18 February 2006 (EST)

== Tigh and Seniority ==

In the questions, I wonder if the reference to Tigh's "seniority" is even relevent. This isn't a situation analogous to the time (now-Admiral) Adama was shot because in that case, Tigh was the most senior officer PERIOD, and here now Tigh is, of course, not. Adama, as the ranking flag officer (Admiral, if not Commander, and up), presumably has the authority to make promotions as he sees fit. While I'm sure anyone would agree that the promotion of Lee to Commander was unusual, does anybody really think promoting Tigh would have seemed like a good idea to anyone in the fleet? Just curious. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 05:31, 18 February 2006 (EST)

I don't see the fuss: Col. Tigh himself has stated repeatedly that he does not want a command of his own, and only wants to work as a team with William Adama. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 05:39, 18 February 2006 (EST)

BTW; a note on units: someone mentions that "40 SU" is a long distance away in space for Pegasus. I think that must mean "Stellar Unit", as opposed to our standardized "Astronomical Unit (AU)" (distance from Earth to the sun).--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 06:01, 18 February 2006 (EST)

== Pegasus Technology / Technicalities ==
=== Landing Strips & Weaponry ===

Amazing Battle Sequence in this episode. It was nice to finally get to see Pegasus retake her Vipers via both the upper and lower Landing strips.
when I first saw her from this angle http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Pegasus01.jpg I suspected she had 4 landing strips, and now that I have seen them in use, I feel vindicated. What do we know if anything about the 2 Bough Battery's Pegasus was firing at the middle Basestar? The shells seem to be the same size or larger than a viper?--[[User:Strato|Strato]]

:Also, the fact that one of them is inverted confirms that the colonials can maniuplate artificial gravity fields selectively. This was suspected from some shots of the botanical cruiser with a few domes upside down, but this is more explicit and a more extreme difference (the two strips are back to back). --[[User:Zeratul|Zeratul]] 17:38, 18 February 2006 (EST)

I don't think we could really tell what was upside down or not; I got the impressing that they were just flipping the ''camera angle'' to show that Pegasus was flipping around; more detail when we get the DVDs.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 18:27, 18 February 2006 (EST)

:From what I saw, half of the Vipers rotated to land on the bottom two Pegasus decks. Starbuck was clearly upside down. It can also be seen that Vipers landing on lower deck of the flight pod were rotating to land from the Vipers landing on the upper deck. This is the first time we see that all Viper's land on opposite sides of the same surface. I'm wondering how they are going to explain or show that the gravity is opposite from the rest of the ship.--[[User:Jedivulcan|Jedivulcan]]

::I hope they don't bother. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:10, 18 February 2006 (EST)

They haven't yet explained how they crerate Artificial Gravity onboard the ships yet...I assume its some sort of gravplating...or something...as usual its one of those suspension of disbelief things you just have to kind of accept (for that matter how do they prevent people from flaoting in Zero G in the Raptors?), but the Pegasus clearly has 4 Landing Strips,a nd uses them, there is no need to wait "for the DVD's". For Viper Raptor landings however, they don't relie on Artificial Gravity, they land their skids on magnetic "traps".--[[User:Strato|Strato]]

::See the [[Science in the Re-imagined Series]] article for discussion on artificial gravity. I'm betting more on magnetism on this: Why? Watch the [[Miniseries]], when ''Colonial Heavy 798'' first docks on ''Galactica'' for the decomissioning ceremonies. You'll see two spacesuited workers who are ''floating'' while they're working. If this was gravity, these guys would NOT float. Doesn't give us a direct answer, but it eliminates "selective" gravity adjustments. Confirm this with how the Vipers make combat landings; they bounce a lot. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:20, 18 February 2006 (EST)

:::Ahh, but we also see the flight pod that has been converted to a museum was in possession of artificial gravity in the decommissioning ceremonies. I'm not adding this to rule out your theory Spencerian, but merely to add that we don't have any clear evidence to say whether they can switch the artificial gravity on or off in the flight pods (the museum could also been an anomaly all its own). --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 00:25, 20 February 2006 (EST)

=== Class Capability ===

I removed the following entry from the article's "Notes" section: 
: [[Mercury class battlestar]]s do not need to retract their flight pods prior to a jump, unlike the [[Galactica type battlestar|Galactica type]]. 
I felt this statement was superfluous and unneeded, since ''Mercury''-class Battlestars '''''cannot''''' retract their flight pods before jumping to FTL; it's not a question of needing to or not. The design of the ''Mercury''-class is closest to the original (original series) model, with fixed flight pods and external hull plating and lines. Why TPTB included retractable/deployable flight pods on ''Galactica's'' class is anyone's guess — it's a neat feature, both visually and stylistically — but I don't think it's necessary to the performance of the FTL drive. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 20:29, 18 February 2006 (EST)
: I could see the retractable flight pods on the ''Galactica'' type used to make a sealed enviroment when closed to create an atmosphere on the deck. I would say it could logically allow a way for people to disembark larger craft like ''Colonial One'' when they dock, however its been proven that craft like that use an airlock gantry way for that purpose. -- [[User:Kahran|Kahran]] 20:43, 18 February 2006 (EST)

:I'm restoring this. We may have suspected that Pegasus can't and/or doesn't retract its flight pods, but before this episode, but we didn't ''know''.--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:48, 19 February 2006 (EST)

== "Property"? ==

I'm a little sketchy on current United States legal terminology, but they said that "Under Gemenese law, minors are the "property" of their parents"--->Is the term "property" used by the United States, or any Western nation for that matter? I don't know. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:03, 18 February 2006 (EST)
:Under United States law, no, minors are not property. In practical terms, the situation is a little more complicated. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:09, 18 February 2006 (EST)

::I do not understand. Further, how could she be "property"?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:13, 18 February 2006 (EST)
:::In theory, children are absolutely not "property" under united states law, which grants equal protection not only to all citizens ''of'' the United States, but to all ''persons'' ''within'' the United States. In practice, legal guardians have a wide range of authority over their charges. Of particular relevance to this episode, some jurisdictions require minors to notify their parents prior to an abortion. A friend of mine who sued for emancipation from her parents has told me that in her opinion, there's little practical distinction between the status of an legal minor and "property". I suspect it's a matter of perspective, really. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:40, 18 February 2006 (EST)

== "To Be, or Not... To Be" ==

I removed the following entry from the article's "Notes" section:
: [[Roslin]] references Shakespeare's ''Merchant of Venice'' when she asks [[Quorum of Twelve|Delegate]] [[Sarah Porter]] if she wants her "pound of flesh". It's unclear if analogues of his work exist in the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonies]].

I think that the phrase "pound of flesh" has become quite familiar in modern culture and literary circles, such that it really doesn't warrant significance in citing. It has been used in countless movies and TV episodes without citation (not that I think a phrase can be copyrighted to such an extent), and I haven't seen the writers of ''Law & Order'' state, "Yeah, we intentionally alluded to Shakespeare, and wanted the lawyer to give that impression that he was alluding to Shakespeare when he said it in court". Yes, I'm probably going to an extreme, but really, this is just a case of a scriptwriter putting this phrase into the script, and almost certainly has '''''nothing''''' to do with whether or not Shakespeare is familiar to The Colonies. This isn't the Klingons quoting ''Hamlet''. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 21:45, 18 February 2006 (EST)

:I'm also restoring this. The phrase may have a more general meaning, but it is impossible not to make the association with Shakespeare when hearing it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:52, 19 February 2006 (EST)

: I stand by my original action, more so than the other removal I undertook. It is excessive "over-think" to assume (or, create the assumption) that everything spoken in the dialogue must have explanation in or correlation to "canon" terms. "Pound of flesh" is a term, a phrase, plain and simple... and while its origin ''here'' is attributed to Shakespeare, it ''does not mean'', nor imply, that Shakespeare exists in this storyline, or that Shakespeare was somehow influenced by Colonial writing, or that Shakespeare is, or could be, or should be, any part of this storyline. This storyline and Shakespearean writing are completely exclusive of each other, with the exception being, perhaps, that writers here may take dramatic or stylistic cues from Shakespeare (or any other classes of writers). Hey, they're only Human too. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 02:06, 19 February 2006 (EST)

::Look, in general, I agree with you that it's not desirable to read too much into things - no, the freighter "greenleaf" is not a Legolas reference, for example. This, however, is very clear. I am going to restore it again for now, and I would like you to leave it be until at least a few others weigh in. At that point, I will be happy to abide by consensus. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:56, 19 February 2006 (EST)

I stand with Farago. Utterly. Two to one, motion stands.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 03:01, 19 February 2006 (EST)

Please remember that, when content is disputed due to interpretation ([[Battlestar Wiki:Citation Jihad|as opposed to sources]]), our policy is to generally leave the item ''within the article'' and to work here on Talk (as done) to gain consensus before leaving the item in permanently. If consensus cannot be reached, one of the [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Special%3AListusers&group=sysop&username= Administrators] here (or other contributor) can call for a vote. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:17, 19 February 2006 (EST)

: Perhaps a compromise can be reached. I adjusted the statement slightly to be more ambiguous. I'm not against the mention of a snippet or insight like this — but, I'm completely opposed to extending an insight into speculation, especially when it involves linking to or placement in the ''canon'' storyline. The contributor who first placed that statement (Alphaboi867) hasn't "shown up" to defend it, and I strongly feel that the original phrasing of it is ungrounded speculation that is linking Shakespeare to the storyline, where no such link has been indicated by TPTB to exist. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 15:03, 19 February 2006 (EST)

:''Hawke suggests:''
The script for [[Laura Roslin]] references Shakespeare's ''Merchant of Venice'', when she asks [[Quorum of Twelve|Delegate]] [[Sarah Porter]] if she wants her "pound of flesh". It's unclear as to if the writers are somehow placing Shakespeare's work into the story of [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Colonies]], or if this is just a random "use of phrase" by an inspired scriptwriter.

:This seems verbose. Just stating that she's quoting shakespeare shouldn't imply any position on whether or not he exists in the BSG universe. How about simply stating this in notes:
::[[Laura Roslin]] quotes Shakespeare's "Merchant of Venice" when she tells [[Quorum of Twelve|Delegate]] [[Sarah Porter]] that she's gotten her "pound of flesh".
:And, if we feel the need to discuss the implication of this quotation, doing so under Analysis. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:10, 19 February 2006 (EST)

:: I would be agreeable to this, so long as it is prefaced with "The script (or dialogue) for [[Laura Roslin]]... (rest of your statement)". I know I'm dicing onions, but I think it's ''crucial'' that there is no implication that Shakespeare exists in The Colonies ''unless'' or ''until'' it is substantiated further. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 15:19, 19 February 2006 (EST)

:::"Writer Jeff Vlaming references Shakespeare's "Merchant of Venice" when he has [[Laura Roslin]] tell [[Quorum of Twelve|Delegate]] [[Sarah Porter]], "you have your pound of flesh."? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:25, 19 February 2006 (EST)

:::: That works fine, in my opinion. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 15:28, 19 February 2006 (EST)

== Councillor -> Delegate ==
I changed the instances of Councillor to Delegate per [[Battlestar_Wiki:Standards_and_Conventions#Character_Titles|Article 3 Section 1 of the Standards and Conventions]]. If events occur such that we need to reevaluate the standard title for members of the Quorum, we should probably take it over to the talk at S&C (so that it will be applied everywhere). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 22:46, 18 February 2006 (EST)

==How much is too much?==

I know this was brought up in another episode of the season, in that we should be mindful of how much information is provided for each episode. For the information that's being provided in summary, how much should we include? Some veteran input would be greatly appreciated. -[[User:Sgtpayne|Sgtpayne]] 15:32, 19 February 2006 (EST)
:I agree that this needs concision badly, and separation between the "A" and "B" plots. Try to stick to the rough outlines of the plot, and save salient details for Notes. Be bold. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:49, 19 February 2006 (EST)

::Well I edited a fair bit, taking out some extra explanations. I think we have to look at these summaries as more of a sports recap the day after the game rather then a play-by-play of the whole episode. I think more time should be spent on individual pages (Eg. Lee Adama) rather then explanation what happens to him in detail in the episode. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 19:33, 19 February 2006 (EST)
::: Oh and my apologies to Peter Farago for removing his notable dialogue stuff, had an older copied and pasted version which overwrote your stuff, D'oh!! --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 19:36, 19 February 2006 (EST)
:::No. Wrong. It is more convenient/efficient to describe/question/analyze events in an episode, within that episode's own page. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 20:11, 19 February 2006 (EST)
::::Yeah, I think his point is that it's only worth doing if the points are interesting. This is not a transcript, we don't need a blow-by-blow of each quivering facial expression that plays out on Bamber and Sakhoff's faces in any given scene. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:19, 19 February 2006 (EST)
::::: Aye, exactly. Thanks for clarifying! Also, it might be easier to just throw it on the episode page, but in the end it has to be done on the character/object/whatever page so why not spend more time putting there instead. (Eg. Apollo getting shot can be mentioned on the episode, but it will have to go on Apollo's page anyway, so no point in being overly descriptive. --22:08, 19 February 2006 (EST)

==Casualties==

Rexpop writes:
:There may be two further explanations for this (1) that the board hadn't been updated to reflect the damage on the ''Pegasus'' , only the pilots lost. (2) A large number of the ''Galactica'' casualties occurred during the venting of the fire and was largely due to the conflicting damage control orders given by Kelly, Tyrol and Tigh rather than the actual impact of the missile.

I don't think either of these points bears up to scrutiny. As to the first, I'm willing to wait until next friday, but I can almost promise you that the count won't be pushed any lower - we thought something similar after the surprisingly low casualty count between "Valley of Darkness" and "Fragged", but no other deaths were added on later.

As for the second point, that's simply not the case - Tigh knew that if he waited for the repair crews to evacuate, the fuel lines would blow, and Adama not only backed up his decision but said that he'd have made the same one in his place. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:25, 19 February 2006 (EST)

:It would have been amusing if they did blow and the series ended right there. I dunno what we'd be watching in its place, but there's probably plenty of ideas floating around. --[[User:Bane Grievver|Bane Grievver]] 22:11, 19 February 2006 (EST)

:I'm not disputing whether or not Tigh's decision was or wasn't the correct one. I was making the point that the bulk of the Galactica's casualties (around 80 or so) came from the decision to vent the atmosphere in those sections while the DC teams (that had moved into the section to deal with the fire) were evacuating rather than from the impact of the missile. I've edited the comment to remove the sentence about the DC effort to try and to clear up the point. --[[User:Rexpop|Rexpop]] 23:12, 19 February 2006 (EST)

::Interesting point. We do hear that all the breathing gear was used up in firefighting ops, which the dead deck crew are criticized for neglecting in the mini. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:54, 19 February 2006 (EST)

Pegasus (TRS)

2006-02-19T14:57:10Z

MASON: /* Equipment */ image upgrade

:''For the second-season episode, see [[Pegasus (episode)]]. For the Original Series ''Pegasus'', see [[Pegasus (TOS)]].''

[[Image:BSPegasus.jpg|thumb|Battlestar Pegasus]]

'''''Pegasus'' (BS 62)''' is a [[Mercury class battlestar]] that was stationed at the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] during the [[Cylon attack]]. Presumed lost with the rest of the Colonial military fleet, ''Pegasus'' actually managed to escape the destruction of the Colonies when Admiral [[Helena Cain]] ordered a [[blind jump]]. While saving the battlestar, about 700 of her crew died in the initial attack. Although the ''Pegasus'' was advanced enough to have the [[Command Navigation Program]] which the Cylons used as a backdoor, ''Pegasus'' had just checked in for a three-month refit at the time of the Cylon attack, and as such, almost all of its networked [[Computers|computer]] systems were offline. ''Pegasus'' was commanded by Admiral Cain, until her death in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]". Colonel [[Jack Fisk]] assumed command in her wake, but he too was assassinated in "[[Black Market]]". Pegasus was then briefly commanded by engineer-turned-commander [[Barry Garner]], who was killed during the [[Battle of the Binary Star System]]. Pegasus is currently commanded by Commander [[Lee Adama]].

== Fleet Details ==

'''Designation''': warship, [[battlestar]] type, [[Mercury class battlestar|''Mercury'' class battlestar]]

'''Deployment''': Formerly an element of [[62nd Battlestar Group]]

'''Current Status''': One of [[Galactica|two]] remaining Colonial military units.Currently under the command of Commander [[Lee Adama]]. Formerly commanded by (in order of succession) Commander [[Barry Garner]], Commander [[Jack Fisk]], and before Fisk, commanded by Admiral [[Helena Cain]].

==History==

At some point, a [[Humano-Cylon|Cylon]] infiltrator was discovered onboard - a woman named [[Gina]]. She killed seven men when apprehended, and was then incarcerated, brutally interrogated and gang-raped by many of the crew.

After the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], ''Pegasus'' occupied itself with hit-and-run attacks on various Cylon assets. It participated in a bold assault on a staging area filled with fifteen squadrons of [[Raider]]s. When Cain's long-time [[Executive officer]] expressed hesitancy to launch the ships' fighters against such odds, Cain publically executed him on the bridge and promoted Colonel [[Jack Fisk]] to replace him. This, according to Colonel Fisk, who told this story (and later recanted) while drunk to Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]], which Tigh believed to be true when he recounted it to Commmander [[William Adama]].

Some time later, ''Pegasus'' discovered that a Cylon fleet it was tracking appeared to be jumping, not randomly, but to systems with natural resources. The battlestar then accidentally encountered [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] led by battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'' when ''Pegasus'' jumped ahead to scout the Cylon target's projected next position (as it turned out, the Cylons were jumping to systems ''Galactica'' had been in). Cain assumed command of the fleet and began transferring supplies and many personnel between the two battlestars, including Captain [[Lee Adama]] and Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]]. Cain appeared unconcerned with the needs of the civilians and their ships, a problem noted to Commander Adama by President [[Laura Roslin]].

Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] mentioned during his interrogation by Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] that he served aboard a number of battlestars in his military career, including ''Pegasus'' ([[Resistance]]). If Admiral Cain ever knew him during this time, she made no mention of it, and had no reservations sentencing him and [[Karl Agathon]] to death when they inadvertently killed Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne]], Cain's chief "Cylon interrogator". [[William Adama]], commander of ''Galactica'', refused to permit the execution, precipitating an armed standoff between the two ships ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

==Pegasus Fleet==

It was later revealed that ''Pegasus'' originaly had its own small fleet of 15 civilian ships which it found about a week after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], which actually had FTL drives and weapons. However, rather than defending them (as ''Galactica'' had at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]), Admiral Cain saw them as potential spare parts for ''Pegasus'', and decided that ''Pegasus' '' military needs were a priority over them. The civilian ships were stripped for parts, including their weapons and FTL drives, marooning them and leaving them completely at the mercy of the Cylons when Cain left. However not all of the civilians were left to die: after looking over the passenger lists, Cain seleted those civilians who she thought would be of value (such as [[Peter Laird]], an aeronautical engineer), forcibly drafting them into her crew. However, 15 'selectees' aboard the civilian transport ''[[Scylla]]'' were traveling with their families and refused to leave without them. Admiral Cain ordered her marines to kill two families (men, women, and children) to shock the rest into submission. ''Pegasus'' then abandoned the civilian ships to pursue Admiral Cain's campaign of hit-and-run attacks against Cylon forces. ("[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]")

==Equipment==
[[Image:TheEnemysGateIsDown3.jpg|thumb|right|Pegasus firing its main turrets]]
(Differences between the Mercury-class battlestar design and that of the original class of battlestar (to which ''Galactica'' belongs) will be further elaborated upon in a deleted scene in the episode "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]", which will be included in the upcoming DVD release of "Season 2.5")

What is known, from the episode [[Scar]], is that ''Pegasus'' has Viper production facilities. This is a capability that would allow the ''Pegasus'' to be self sufficient on long deployments.

==Notes==

According to David Eick's video blog, it would have been impossible to afford creating new sets for the entire interior of ''Pegasus'' on the budget of an episodic television show. This expense was circumvented when a year beforehand Ron D. Moore and David Eick bought (for next to nothing) the abandoned sets of the failed pilot for the FOX network's "Lost In Space" remake, directed by John Woo. The production team then held onto the sets hoping to find some later use for them, eventually using them for Pegasus. The sets were then radically redesigned and painted to give them the aesthetic look of ''Galactica'', but sleeker and more advanced.

=== Links ===

* [[Wikipedia:Pegasus|Pegasus]] (from Wikipedia)

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:RDM]]
[[Category:Battlestars]]

File talk:Colonies3el.gif

2006-02-09T19:24:17Z

MASON: credit for image

What is the source of this? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:07, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:I also note that Aerelon, Canceron, Sagittaron, Aquaria, Picon, and Gemenon seem to be misspelled. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:11, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:Yes, very much so. This doesn't look reliable at all.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 18:15, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::Strato did say "may be speculative" when he uploaded the image. --[[User:Kraetos|Kraetos]] 21:18, 8 February 2006 (EST)

:::We need to know the source for copyright purposes. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:20, 8 February 2006 (EST)

::::He probably made it. Still, I wouldn't recommend using it anywhere, for that reason. --[[User:Kraetos|Kraetos]] 22:09, 8 February 2006 (EST)
:::::If it's his, he needs to explicitly grant permission for us to use it on the description page. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:33, 9 February 2006 (EST)

::::I believe this should be classified fan fiction, artful as it is. Names appear TOS but banners are RDM. I recommend we give the contributor a chance for the source, but put it on the clock with a deletion tag. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 23:08, 8 February 2006 (EST)

I pulled it down off of a costume/prop building site. I don't know who created the file originally. My intent was not for this to be used for anything more than a comparison of matching Colony Names to their appropriate Banners, to help illustrate the discussion(so you could see what I was talking about). (since their seems to be confusion about this all over the web.) And yes I am aware the names of a few of the colonies are incorrect for RDM. as far as "copyright" doesn't really apply here does it? Since the person who created this file doesn't own/hold any rights to this property. I will see about finding out who made it anyways just for attributions sake.--[[Stratohead|Stratohead]]

:I think it's a little different than using image clips from galacticastation, since there really is some creative effort on the part of the artist. While the copyright might still belong to universal ultimately, it's a much more debateable situation than unmodified screen captures, and I'm uncomfortable hosting the image here without explicit permission from its creator. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:20, 9 February 2006 (EST)

Understood. I can go ahead and recreate the image (and correct the names while I am at it) if I can get a consensus opinion on the banners matching the Colonys...would that work?--[[Stratohead|Stratohead]]

:I believe the image can be credited to 137thGebirg, from the Galactica Actual forum, but since that forum has been deleted, and I don't know of any way to contact him, I don't think we should use the image. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 14:24, 9 February 2006 (EST)

User:MASON

2006-01-15T18:50:41Z

MASON: didn't know there was a most wanted list o_O

Mason is doing his Masters in Architecture, he is also a rabid BSG fan who now has to wait for Season 2.5 to air in Canada... He tends to call Toronto / Ontario / Canada his permanent address, but has been found in Vancouver, B.C., Efes and Istanbul, Turkiye, London, U.K., Praha, Czech Republic, Zurich, Schweiz, Paris, France, the Adirondacks range in NY state, and the University of Waterloo School of Architecture in Cambridge, Ontario.

He likes to manipulate images, and is slightly obsessed with tracking down hi-res static renderings of BSG ships by Zoic Studios and making obscure connections between the Cylon God, the Imperious Leader, and the extended Zodiac.

His latest obsession are the films of Andrei Tarkovsky, particularly Solaris and Stalker.

Anywhere where science and mysticism collide is a place worth being.

Galactica (TRS)

2006-01-04T18:33:29Z

MASON: /* Turrets */ grammar

:''For the Original Series ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (TOS)]]. For the Video Game ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (Video Game)]].'' 

[[Image:Bsg-gal-1.jpg|thumb|Battlestar ''Galactica'']]

[[Battlestar]] ''Galactica'' is the most famous warship in the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Built in time to participate in the [[Cylon War]] she remained the only military vessel without integrated [[Computers|computer networks]]. Without networked computers, ''Galactica'' never upgraded to the new [[Command Navigation Program|integrated defense system software]] developed by Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] and his [[Number Six|team]]. Because of this and other fortune, she became one of only two battlestars to survive the renewed Cylon attack on the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], some 40 years after the end of the first war.

== Fleet Details ==

'''Designation''': warship, battlestar type, [[Original battlestar (RDM)|original battlestar class]] (class name unknown).

'''Deployment''': Formerly an element of [[75th Battlestar Group]]

'''Current Status''': One of [[Pegasus|two]] remaining Colonial military units. ''Galactica'' is commanded by [[William Adama]].

== History ==

''Galactica'' was one of the first battlestars to be laid down by the Colonials. As such, she is some 50 years old (Mini Series). Following the outbreak of Cylon hostilities, several more battlestars were built, giving the Colonials a battlestar that represented each of the [[Twelve Colonies]]. ''Galactica's'' first commander was [[Peter Dash]] ([[Mini-Series]]).

The first original battlestars were all designed with non-integrated computer systems to avoid the Cylons demonstrated ability to override or subvert networked command and control systems early in the war ([[Mini-Series]]). Rather than technological sophistication, the battlestar depended on its sheer bulk and defensive / offensive capabilities to ward of any threats to itself or the Colonies.

Following the [[Armistice Station|armistice]] with the Cylons, and their withdrawal from Colonial space, ''Galactica'' and her sister ships continued to serve the Twelve Colonies in a wide variety of roles. While her surviving sister ships were scrapped or upgraded to match the systems capabilities of more modern Colonial vessels, ''Galactica'' continued in service without her systems being fully networked or integrated, making her unique among Colonial military vessels ([[Miniseries]]).

With her active career drawing to a close, a decision was taken to retire ''Galactica'' and decommission her from service. [[Colonial Fleet]] chose not to scrap her, but to turn her into a combination of living museum to the original Cylon War and an educational center, with her conversion being overseen by her final commander, [[William Adama]] ([[Miniseries]]).

At the time of her formal decommissioning ceremony, ''Galactica'' was stripped of all but one of her operational [[Viper]] Mark VII squadrons, her munitions destroyed, and her starboard landing pod converted into a pressurized [[Galactica Museum|museum]] housing (among other things) a full squadron of 20 Mk. II Vipers (Miniseries, also in Deleted Scenes).

With the unexpected resumption of hostilities on the part of the Cylons, ''Galactica'' quickly proves her worthiness as a warship is far from over as she withstands a direct hit from a tactical nuclear missile, and then single-handedly engages two [[basestar|basestars]] after re-arming herself at [[Ragnar Anchorage]], providing an umbrella of fire cover under which [[Fleet|an assortment of 75 civilian ships]] containing the last survivors of the Twelve Colonies escape the Cylons.

Since the exodus of the Colonials from their overrun homeworlds, ''Galactica'' becomes both protector and provider for the Fleet. She provides direct fire-cover for the Fleet during Cylon attacks no fewer than 240 times ("[[33]]", "[[Act of Contrition]]"). She provides much of the Fleet with recycled water ([[Water]]) and she is the primary source of medical care, with groups of civilians routinely brought aboard for check-ups and the like ([[Litmus]]). ''Galactica'' also undertakes internal policing duties within the Fleet ("[[Water]]", "[[Bastille Day]]").

''Galactica'' successfully goes on the offensive against the Cylons, capturing a [[tylium]] fuel mining and processing plant in the process ([[The Hand of God]]).

== Equipment ==
''Galactica'' shares the same overall technical specifications as other original Colonial battlestars of [[Original Battlestar (RDM)|her class]], with the following key differences:

===Available Flight Pods===
Only ''Galactica's'' port [[flight pod]] is in service. The starboard flight pod was enclosed and pressurised as the main museum display facility. It was violently depressurized after a [[Heavy Raider]] crashed into it ([[Scattered]]). No episode since "[[Valley of Darkness]]" addresses the status of the flight pod since its depressurization.

===Turrets===
[[Image:BSG-KEW-Turret.jpg|thumb|An example of one of ''Galactica's'' large flak weapons.]]
''Galactica's'' defenses include an array of twenty-four large turret mounted twin-cannons, and a multitude of smaller turret mounted twin-guns located between the ''Galactica's'' "[[Frame|ribs]]". Together, these provide the ''Galactica'' with a flak field that acts as a defense perimeter against incoming hostiles ([[Miniseries]], "[[Scattered]]").

===Nuclear Warheads===
''Galactica'' had five nuclear warheads as of "[[Bastille Day]]". Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] cannibalizes one to use in his [[Cylon Detector]], and Commander Adama uses another to destroy a Cylon [[basestar]] in [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]], leaving the ship with three.

===Vipers===
Prior to the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', ''Galactica'' has at most 34 Vipers, of which at least six are Mk. VIIs.{{ref|vipers}} ''Galactica'' receives additional supplies from ''Pegasus'' since her arrival that may aid in repair or refurbishment of her fighter complement ([[Pegasus (episode)|"Pegasus"]]).

===Raptors===
The number of [[Raptor]]s available to ''Galactica'' has been very inconsistent in the series. We currently must assume she has at least five, and left Ragnar Anchorage with at least eight.{{ref|raptors}}

===Other Craft===
*''Galactica'' currently posesses two [[Heavy Raider]]s. One crash-lands into the starboard flight pod in "[[Scattered]]" (now possibly unusable). The other returns in operational status from Caprica in "[[Home, Part I]]".
*An experimental stealth fighter, the [[Blackbird]], is constructed using spare parts in the episode "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]".

=== Crew ===
Before the attack, ''Galactica'' has approximately 2,800 crewmen, while awaiting its decomissioning.{{ref|originalcrew}} By the time of the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', attrition has reduced this number to 2,660.{{ref|crew}} {{ref|crew}} Since "[[Act of Contrition]]", ''Galactica's'' offensive capability has also been greatly hampered by the number of [[List of Pilots|qualified pilots]] available.

==Running Tallies==
#{{note|vipers}}Running tally of Vipers:
#* With one operational flight pod, ''Galactica'' was apparently equipped with two squadrons of Mk. VII [[Viper]]s. A third squadron of Mk. IIs formed part of a museum exhibit in the starboard flight pod.
#*20 Mk. VIIs under the command of [[Jackson Spencer|Jackson "Ripper" Spencer]], ''Galactica's'' [[CAG]], are lost en-route to [[The Twelve Colonies#Caprica|Caprica]] when they are disabled by a backdoor in the [[Command Navigation Program]] and subsequently destroyed.
#*At least 11 Vipers, all Mk. IIs, launch during the first attack on ''Galactica'', one of which is destroyed.
#*Three Mk. VII Vipers are seen in formation inside the Fleet before they hook up with ''Galactica''. These could have been left behind with the non-FTL capable ships, or could have been carried to Ragnar in other ships as Apollo was. This would help to account for the discrepancy of fighters between the Miniseries and "[[Act of Contrition]]" (see below).
#*Thirty-nine Vipers launch at the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]], of which eight are destroyed and one is severely damaged (piloted by [[Lee Adama]]), leaving 31. Some Vipers damaged in the previous engagement are possibly held for repairs.
#*In "[[Act of Contrition]]", Lee Adama states that there were 40 Vipers left on the ship. Perhaps this discrepancy can be accounted for by other Mk. VIIs that happened to find their way to the fleet at Ragnar?
#*At the end of that episode, one Viper, piloted by [[Hot Dog]], is severely damaged, and a second, piloted by [[Starbuck|Kara Thrace]], is destroyed in a crash landing on a nearby moon.
#*In "[[You Can't Go Home Again]]", Tyrol reports that due to atmospheric [[SAR]] operations, 13 Mk. II's and one Mk. VII are down for repairs, and that he's "out". Presumably the remaining 25 constitute the [[CAP]] and [[Alert Fighters]].
#*One additional Viper is "slapped together from pieces of the others". This doesn't change the total count, since still-useable parts are just being shuffled around. The damage inflicted by the atmosphere of the moon during Thrace's [[SAR]] is apparently a matter of cleaning time, not total failure and replacement.
#*In "[[The Hand of God]]", Strike Force Two is comprised of twelve Vipers (three of which, piloted by an unidentified pilot, [[Chuckles]], and [[Stepchild]], are destroyed) and Strike Force One is comprised of at least seven (at least one of which, piloted by [[Fireball])], is destroyed.
#*According to the official Sci-Fi website, following ''Galactica's'' attack on a Cylon [[tylium]] mine in "[[Hand of God]]", there are 35 remaining Vipers aboard ''Galactica''. This is consistant with the losses seen in that episode and "[[Act of Contrition]]", assuming that [[Hot Dog]]'s Viper was recovered and repaired.
#*At least 18 Vipers (11 Mk. IIs, 6 Mk. VIIs, one unidentified) are launched to defend the ship in "[[Scattered]]". None are destroyed onscreen, but in "[[Fragged]]", Apollo remarks that "seven birds" are down for repairs.
#*[[Kat]] crashes Viper 591 into the flight deck in "[[Final Cut]]". It may have been salvaged - Hot Dog's Viper is damaged much more severely in "[[Act of Contrition]]".
#*Chief Tyrol declares Viper 289 a total loss and has it scrapped in "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]". This would leave 34 remaining Vipers.
#*42 Vipers are deployed in the episode "[[Flight of the Phoenix]]", including 7 Mk. VIIs. This flatly contradicts the counts given in previous episodes and official statements, and also ignores the continued attrition of Vipers noted by [[Tyrol]] in the episode itself. This should be regarded as a visual effects gaffe.
#*15 Vipers are launched against ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'' in the [[Pegasus (episode)|episode]] of the same name.
#{{note|raptors}}Running tally of Raptors:
#* No official estimate is given of ''Galactica's'' initial Raptor loadout.
#* The Raptor accompanying [[Jackson Spencer|Ripper]]'s squadron, crewed by [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] and [[Karl Agathon|Helo]], manages to escape destruction but is forced to land for repairs on nearby [[The Twelve Colonies#Caprica|Caprica]]. It later returns intact to ''Galactica'' ([[Miniseries]]).
#* Raptors are deployed to five nearby systems in [[Water]].
#* Two Raptors, piloted by [[Boomer]] and [[Stubbs]], perform reconaissance duties in "[[The Hand of God]]".
#* In "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]", three Raptors are deployed to scout [[Kobol]], but unexpectedly encounter a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] in orbit. [[Raptor 3]] is immediately destroyed by collision with a [[Raider]]. [[Raptor 1]] is forced to crash land on Kobol, and only [[Raptor 275]] survives to report back to "Galactica".
#* In "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II|Part II]]", three Raptors are sent to board "[[Colonial One]]" while [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] and [[Racetrack]] simultaneously take a fourth to deliver a nuclear bomb to the Kobol basestar. All four craft return safely.
#* In "[[Fragged]]", [[Raptor 305]] is scrapped for parts in order to mount a two-raptor [[SAR|search-and-rescue]] mission. This seemingly takes place very late in the same day as "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", which makes the sudden shortage mysterious.
#* Tigh orders a Raptor deployed to each ship refusing to resupply ''Galactica'' in "[[Resistance]]". At that time, these ships number at least eight, and [[Gaeta]] cites manpower shortage as the chief limiting factor. This means that either Tigh is unaware of ''Galactica's'' resources (unlikely), or the ship has or acquires 11 Raptors in total by the time they left the Colonies (which makes the equipment shortage in "[[Fragged]]" even harder to explain). At the end of this episode, Apollo escapes with one Raptor which he abandons on [[Cloud Nine]].
#* In "[[The Farm]]", Tigh explicitly states that they have "five raptors with [[Colonial Marine Corps|marine]] fire teams standing by". Including the two destroyed in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]" and the one scrapped in "[[Fragged]]", this implies an initial complement of at least eight. If the Raptor stolen in "[[Resistance]]" has not yet been returned, the number would be nine.
#{{note|originalcrew}}Original crew:
#*In the Miniseries, Adama states that he has "almost 2,000" crew on board ''Galactica''.
#*In "[[Water]]," Baltar says there are 45,265 civilians in the Fleet. Given the stats of [[Survivor Count|total fleet population]] in that episode, that means there were 2,693 military personnel in the Fleet at the time. It is unclear if this was a gaffe or a [[Continuity errors (RDM)|retcon]], but the more recent figure is generally accepted.
#*In addition to the 85 killed in the flight pod fire (Miniseries), 29 Viper pilots are lost on-screen in the first three sorties, and [[Helo]] goes MIA (all events in the [[Miniseries]]). This makes for a pre-attack total of 2,808 crewmembers.
#{{note|crew}}Running tally of crewmembers:
#*Thirteen pilots are killed in "[[Act of Contrition]]". Eight are recruited to replace them, leaving a net loss of five.
#*Three crewmen are killed by a suicide bomber in "[[Litmus]]".
#*Starbuck is seen giving combat flight training to fourteen [[nuggets]] in "[[The Hand of God]]", suggesting an additional six nuggets had been selected by that point. Apollo earlier alludes to a second group of trainees in "[[Act of Contrition]]".
#*Four Viper pilots are killed in action in "[[The Hand of God]]".
#*Ten die on [[Raptor 3]] in "[[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]", and Sharon Valerii is revealed as a Cylon agent.
#*Eleven crew are killed in the Cylon boarding action in "[[Valley of Darkness]]".
#*Four of the crew of [[Raptor 1]] die by the time the survivors are rescued in "[[Fragged]]".
#*Helo returns in "[[Home, Part I]]."
#*Subtracting these losses from the total given in "Water" yields no more than 2,662 crewmembers prior to the arrival of ''[[Pegasus]]''.

[[Category:Battlestars]] [[Category:A to Z]] [[Category:Colonial Craft]] [[Category:Colonial Military]] [[Category:RDM]]

Naturalistic science fiction

2006-01-04T16:24:17Z

MASON: /* No "Deux Ex Machina" Concepts */ sp

== In Theory... ==

'''Naturalistic science fiction''' (NSF) is a realistic take on the SF genre, avoiding typical SF [[Wikipedia:cliche|cliches]], utilizing visual and artistic elements from such dramas as "[[Wikipedia:The Sopranos|The Sopranos]]" and "[[Wikipedia:The West Wing|The West Wing]]". Naturalistic SF blends the best elements of [[Wikipedia:Soft science fiction|"soft" science fiction]] (where characterization is of prime importance) and [[Wikipedia:Hard science fiction|"hard" science fiction]] (where plausible technical accuracy is preferred).

== In Practice... ==

===Characters===
For [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|the new "Battlestar Galactica" series]] naturalistic SF means that '''characters''' are viewed as normal, every-day people, complete with flaws, neuroses, and even addictions. There will be no stereotypical SF characters such as the "smoking chauvinist", "loyal soldier", "heroic lead", "spiritual commander", "whiz-kid genius", or "sexy doctor".

===Technology===
'''Technology''' is far enough advanced for star travel to be possible (see: [[FTL]] travel) and plausible, yet every other aspect of Colonial technology is humbly realistic. Instead of using technology such as [[Wikipedia:Star Trek|"Star Trek's"]] transporters, people need to be physically shuttled between ships on smaller craft like [[Raptor|Raptors]].

Colonial ships are not powered by inexhaustible "dylithium crystals" housed inside "warp cores" , but from [[tylium]], a powerful solid substance with interesting properties that's mined from planets and asteroids and refined.

Fantasy energy weapons such as "Star Trek's" phasers and photon torpedoes are replaced with ordinary projectile weapons and Earthly mass-destruction ordinance: guns, bullets and nuclear bombs. Other unrealistic SF "[[Wikipedia:deus ex machina|deus ex machina]]" are avoided entirely, or replaced with technology more in-line with what's seen in modern life. If the [[Fleet]] runs out of water, ''Galactica'' can't "invent" some futuristic device to reclaim the water molecules from space-borne hydrogen molecules--they search for a planetary body that has water ([[Water]]). Technology looks familar to the viewer, from the phones, computer screens, and even the bathrooms.

Much like [[Aaron Doral]] noted in the opening of the [[Miniseries]], form follows function when it comes to the ship designs. ''Galactica'' is designed as a battle cruiser / aircraft carrier in space; the hull is lined with armor plating, strengthened by [[Frame|structural ribbing]] and insulated from external explosions by internal structures such as water tanks ([[Water]]). The command center of the ship, the [[CIC]], is buried deep within the ship and protected from any attacks, unlike ''Star Trek's'' starships, whose bridges are openly exposed at the top-center of the ship.

Many Colonial civilian ships are spaceborne variations of ships you may see in the air or at sea in the real-world Earth. ''[[Colonial One]]'' is designed to be a [[Intersun|jetliner in space]] and is set up similar to a real world passenger airliner with rows of seats separated into various classes down the fuselage, cramped airplane bathrooms, cargo bays in the ship's underbelly and private cabins for VIPs (they may even have those dry complementary peanut snacks).

===No "Deus Ex Machina" Concepts===

Characters like [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] are annoyed by endless '''[[technobabble]]'''. Complex procedures needed to further the plot are often explained in context to the episode in simple and down-to-earth terms, if they're ever explained at all.

When technology is mentioned, it's typically analogous to something found on the real-world Earth. Dialogue such as "[[Stims|stims]]", "[[Morpha|morpha]]", "[[DRADIS]]" and "[[wireless]]" will seems familiar enough when used in context to most casual viewers.

''Galactica'' and its Fleet has to be creative with the very limited resources in the Fleet. They cannot barter with other civilizations (there aren't any), or "replicate" parts from some fanciful reproducing device. They have a limited supply of ''everything'' : [[Viper|fighters]], ammunition, food, water, and people. Specialized crewmembers, such as [[List of Pilots|pilots]] and [[Cottle|doctors]], are in even shorter supply. In "Battlestar Galactica's" world, they don't have a "starbase" or "Federation" : What they are and what they have is literally visible in every episode--and everything is wearing or running out, adding to the drama of the characters.

===Space Remains Big...and Lonely===

There are no "planet-of-the-week" episodes. The universe remains so big as to appear almost empty, with the odds of meeting other intelligent beings (excluding, perhaps, remnants of the [[Earth|Thirteenth Tribe]]) practically nil. A majority of [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Battlestar Galactica's]] episodes primarily focus on internal Fleet survival issues ("[[Water]]", "[[Bastille Day]]", and "[[The Hand of God]]").

Humanoid or quasi-humanoid intelligent life (save that of the Fleet's nemesis, the human-created [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]]) does not exist, as almost all of the encountered planets will be mostly uninhabitable and lifeless (based on the sound, scientific reasoning about the qualifications for life to exist anywhere).

The characters do speak of animals from the now Cylon-occupied Colonies, and they share most of the names we use in the real-world Earth: [[Life Forms of the Twelve Colonies|chickens, dogs, cattle, and cats]] existed on their worlds. This naming is done mostly to make it easier for the viewers to identify with the characters and to prevent writers from having to invent a new animal.

===Storytelling and Music===

[[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|"Battlestar Galactica"]] avoids the thematic elements found in "[[Wikipedia:Star Wars|Star Wars]]". The series story is told chronolgically in episodic storytelling, using a [[Wikipedia:Documentary film|documentary-style, ''cinema verite'']] visual feel, and tribal music that gives the series a more multi-cultural sound texture than the overly-used flags-and-banners overtures used in "Star Trek" and "Star Wars".

== Related Articles ==

*[http://www.galactica2003.net/articles/concept.shtml Galactica2003.net's Reprint of RDM's Take on Naturalistic SF]

*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_Science_Fiction Wikipedia article on Hard Science Fiction]

*The [[Physics (RDM)|physics]] seen in the Re-imagined Series

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category: Hollywood Buzzwords]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Cylon Models

2005-12-31T19:06:13Z

MASON: modified layout to prevent image overlaps

{{Cylons Series}}
==Centurion Model 0005==
[[Image:Centurion_armor_old.jpg|thumb|Cylon Centurion (Armor) on display. ([[Miniseries]])]]
Model Name: Cylon Centurion
:''Main article: [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005]]''
The Centurion Model 0005, glimpsed briefly in two scenes of the [[Miniseries]] was apparently the latest Cylon model to have been extensively documented by Colonial authorities after the [[Cylon War]]. It is a primitive model, resembling a short, clumsy humanoid with a single red eye - or as some of the Colonials contemptuously referred to them, "chrome [[toaster]]s". According to [[Saul Tigh]] in a deleted [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/202/deleted1.html scene] from the episode "[[Resistance]]", they had a distinctive "stink" of machine oil.

These models were apparently the instigators of the Cylon Rebellion, or their immediate descendants. They fought in all the major engagements of the Cylon War, including the boardings of ''[[Brenik]]'' and ''[[Galactica]]''. A painting by [[Monclair]] depicts a massive melee between early-model Cylons and joint Aerelon-Caprican ground forces.

They were apparently far from emotionless — in the above-mentioned scene, Tigh recollects their vicious tactics in hand-to-hand combat: "The first one was Duncan Raverty. I found him in the corridor. His guts were strewn around on the floor. Y'know, at first I couldn't figure out why the Cylons would bother doing something like that [...] You had to look into their red eye-slit. They hated us. They hated us so much it wasn't enough just to kill us."

:''This model was included in the miniseries primarily as an homage to the [[TOS|original series]]. Within the context of the re-imagined series, it is a 40-year old model and likely obsolete. Although remarks by [[Number Six]] in the miniseries state that "those [walking chrome toaster] models are still around. They have their purpose," it is most likely that she is referring to the later-model Centurions, which seem to have replaced them entirely.''

==Modern Centurion==
[[Image:Cylon Centurion New 002.jpg|thumb|right|The deadly Cylon Centurion, upgraded from its predacessors.]]
:''Main article: [[Cylon Centurion]]''
The current mainstay of Cylon ground forces, the modern Centurion is a taller, swifter and more agile unit than the Model 0005. Its "fingers" serve as edged weapons in close-quarters combat, and can retract to make way for projectile weapons built into its forearms.

There are apparently two armor configurations - the Centurions encountered by Lt. [[Karl Agathon]] on occupied [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Caprica|Caprica]] were susceptible to normal small-arms fire, while the boarding party dispatched to ''[[Galactica]]'' in the episode "[[Valley of Darkness]]" could only be impeded by explosive rounds.

Although the earlier centurion models presumably took a leadership role in their war against the colonials, modern centurions are completely mute and subservient to the human models.

==Cylon Spacecraft==
:''Main article: [[Cylon Spacecraft]]''
The current model Cylon Raider is an unpiloted, autonomous craft ([[Miniseries]]), apparently capable of operating at fair distance from any command vessel ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]], [[Final Cut]]). Capt. [[Jackson Spencer]], encountering the newer model Cylon Raider for the first time, expresses shock that "nobody's flying these things". Lt. [[Kara Thrace]] later discovers that the Raider she had [[Skirmish over the Red Moon|shot down over the Red Moon]] was, after a fashion, "alive". She removes most of its organic parts before returning with it to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]''. There, [[Sharon Valerii]], a Cylon sleeper agent, guesses that the Raider is a Cylon in its own right, although "More of an animal, maybe, than the human models... like a pet" ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).

The current model [[Cylon Basestar]] also makes extensive use of organic parts ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]), although it is unclear whether or not is can function autonomously.

:''In both these cases, the distinction between a "Cylon" and their own semi-sentient technology becomes increasingly blurred — interestingly, the same problem that lead to the [[Cylon War]] in the first place.''

== Human Models ==
:''Main article: [[Humano-Cylon]]''
At some point at least two years prior to the [[miniseries]], Cylon forces in exile on their homeworld were able to perfect the creation of organic models, almost completely indistinguishable from human beings. These were used to quietly and effectively infiltrate the colonial defense forces, with civillian agents such as [[Number Six#Natasi|Natasi]] gaining access to secret military technology, and sleeper agents such as [[Sharon Valerii#Galactica Copy|Sharon Valerii (Galactica Copy)]] being planted within the [[Colonial Fleet]] itself.

Cylon infiltrators can be programmed to believe they are human, and several have been planted within colonial society with false memories and forged backgrounds. Unplanned discovery of their true nature can be extremely disturbing for these units, and their behavior is not always predictable.

Human-model cylons cannot be visually distinguished from biological humans while alive, although biopsy and cremation can reveal distinctive chemical traces. They apparently differ from biological humans in three principle ways:

===Reproductive Difficulties=== [[Image:Sharonspine.jpg|thumb|right|Sharon Valerii conceives a child with [[Karl Agathon]] ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).]]
With a single exception, no human-model Cylon has been able to conceive a child ([[The Farm]]). It is impossible for two Cylons to reproduce with each other, and as result the Cylons began cross-breeding experiments with humans (who can reproduce easily), which so far has only resulted in the pregnancy of the Caprica-copy of [[Sharon Valerii]]. Cylon beliefs attribute this to the apparent inability of Cylons to feel love, which they believe to be a crucial element of the process.

===Bioluminescence===
On two occasions, the vertebrae of human-model Cylons have been seen to emit a red glow visible through the skin during sexual intercourse ([[Miniseries]], [[Six Degrees of Separation]]). This is probably related to the ability of Cylons to interface with computer systems via fiber-optic connections ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]).

===Silica Pathways===
Cylon brains are imbued with somewhat enigmatic [[Silica Pathways]]. These allow the thoughts, memories and consciousness of an individual cylon to be downloaded and transferred into a new body. They are, however, susceptible to certain forms of radiation, as found in the upper atmosphere of the planet [[Ragnar]] and the [[Wikipedia:Plutonium|Plutonium]] used as an element of Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]]'s [[Cylon Detector]]. It normally takes several hours of prolonged exposure for this radiation to have a visible effect. ([[Miniseries]], [[Bastille Day]]).

===Known Models===

In the miniseries, somewhat ambiguous comments by [[Number Six]] and a note left for [[William Adama]] (presumably by [[Gaius Baltar]]) indicated that there were only twelve humanoid models at the time of the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. These were clarified by [[Ronald D. Moore]] in an [http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml interview] on "The Chase Show", hosted on the SF webcast news site [http://www.thefandom.com/TheFandom.com]. Of the twelve human models, six have been revealed as of the episode "[[Final Cut]]".

{| align="center"
| align="center" style="padding-left:2em; padding-right:2em;" | [[Image:Number_Six_promo.jpg|70px]] || align="center" style="padding-left:2em; padding-right:2em;" | [[Image:Sharon_Valerii_promo.jpg|70px]] || align="center" style="padding-left:2em; padding-right:2em;" | [[Image:Mini_Doral.jpg|70px]] || align="center" style="padding-left:2em; padding-right:2em;" | [[Image:Leoben_conoy_001.jpg|70px]] || align="center" style="padding-left:2em; padding-right:2em;" | [[Image:The_Farm-Simon.jpg|70px]] || align="center" style="padding-left:2em; padding-right:2em;" | [[Image:Xena.jpg|70px]]
|-
| align="center" | [[Number Six]] || align="center" | [[Sharon Valerii]] || align="center" | [[Aaron Doral]] || align="center" | [[Leoben Conoy]] || align="center" | [[Simon]] || align="center" | [[D'anna Biers]]
|}

Pan Galactic

2005-12-28T22:30:20Z

MASON: added Zoic render of pan galactic

[[Image:Pan Mini.JPG|thumb|Pan Galactic Liner preparing to jump during the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]. ([[Mini-Series]]) © Universal]]
[[Image:BSG-Pan-Galactic-Liner.jpg|thumb|Pan Galactic Liner, credit: Zoic Studios © Universal]]
Pan Galactic was a space line operating in the [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] before the [[Cylon attack]]. At least one jump-capable Pan Galactic ship survived the attack and was the last civilian ship to make a jump during the [[Battle of Ragnar Anchorage]]. ([[Mini-Series]])

==Notes==
*The livery and name of Pan Galactic is based on the airline [[Wikipedia:Pan American|Pan American]] (or Pan Am) which folded in 1991.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:The Twelve Colonies of Kobol/Archive3

2005-12-26T03:56:33Z

MASON: Scorpia until further onscreen confirmation

==Merge proposal==

This article, and the articles for each of the Twelve Colonies, are all very short, and I don't see any of them expanding substantially in the near future. I think it would make for a nice looking, meaty article if we merged in each of the individual colony articles with this one under first-level headings. How say you all? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:50, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

I know this looks weird and kind of dumb. I'm still fiddling. It's easy to revert if the whole thing ends up being too hideous to bear. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:17, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

[[image:Banner_unknown1.gif|left|75px]][[image:Banner_unknown2.gif|right|75px]]
: I like the idea and whats up now. If we knew more about each colony, it would look nicer, but until then I think this is fine. Now... What to do with these other two banners? Now, the two colonies without banners are Leo and Aquarius, the lion and the water-bearer. Both of these symbols could be a water-bearer, I guess, but I think the black and white one looks like he has whisters, there and that shape at the top looks more ear-like. That would leave the blue and red one to be the water bearer, which I think makes sense enough. Think we could drop those in with a note as to their speculative nature, or best not to? --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:27, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::I'm leaving this one up to [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]], our resident flag-hunter. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:32, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The two colonies without banners is Aquarius and whatever the colonial name is for Libra. I saw in the mini-series they mentioned a colony called "ICON" alongside of "PICON" so I'm a little weirded out. As for Leonis, that flag has been found. I did a picture search in google for the zodiac's constellation and found the flag's symbol looked exactly like what I have designated. I can't remember, but I believe the constellation for Libra looked quite similar to the black one. Since we don't yet know as of yet what is the name for the Libra colony, I have left it blank. [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]]

:At least we know it isn't Ophiuchi or something. Roslin identifies Libra in the Tomb of Athena map room, although she doesn't give its modern name. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:59, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Realizing that it's still being worked on, it looks awful right now. You can't tell which banner goes to which colony, for one thing. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:30, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Personally, I don't really like the combination of all 12 colonies together either since there is no set border and down the road we will have pictures relating to each colony. This will make it slower to download. --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 12:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The problem, in my opinion, is that there's little to do at the main article other than simply list the colonies, and the majority of the individual colonies are stub-like in length. As for images, Caprica is the only planet we've seen thus far and probably the only one we're likely to see (unless we get Scorpion in a flashback in Pegasus or something). One thing we can do, if it becomes necessary, is link to full-length articles from just underneath the first-level headings.

:As for the banners, I agree that they could be confusing but I rather like them right now. Do either of you think it coudl be re-arranged in a better manner (maybe if they didn't alternate sides? But then there'd be a lot more wasted space)? Or is it a lost cause in your opinions? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:20, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::Yeah, you could try putting all the banners on the right. See how it looks. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 14:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::There, that's what they look like right-aligned. Frankly, I think they look better alternating. I don't find it confusing, and the wasted space bugs me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Hate to say it, but I don't like it at all. The banners overlap with the previous colony's "box", there are no clear markers indicating where one section begins and another ends, it just looks bad. (Part of the problem is that we don't have much information about many of the colonies at this point.) --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:07, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::It'd be better if we could insert a line across the entire page, and have the colony name under that line, along with the banner on the right. Then each colony would have a neat, easily readable section. I don't know if Wiki markup is capable of that though. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:10, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::::I still think it's a better option than thirteen articles that are completely insubstantial on their own. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

I added captions to some of the banners, and in the process deleted some of the <nowiki><div></nowiki> markup. Wikipedia recommends against using HTML ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_markup_with_HTML]), and I've been trying to learn from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax Extended image syntax] page. I can't figure out why a new section like <nowiki>==Caprica==</nowiki> doesn't appear on the same level as its banner. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:09, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:Ah ha! The wonders of '''<nowiki> </nowiki>'''! What do you guys think of the formatting now? --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:28, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::My HTML/CSS was not used lightly. That's really the one way to get the banners at the section heading level as I did. Frankly this seems like a more cumbersome version of my right-aligned attempt. I really dislike the caption boxes, too.
::I have a new idea: Rather than use the (rather long) banners, we can grab the icons from each, along with the background colors, and use them. I've created nine high-resolution versions from QuintusCinna's originals, which you can link to below:
::[http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/aerelon.png Aerelon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/canceron.png Canceron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/caprica.png Caprica], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/gemenon.png Gemenon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/picon.png Picon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/sagittaron.png Sagittaron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpion.png Scorpion], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/tauron.png Tauron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/virgon.png Virgon]
::These could be scaled down to almost any size and still look nice. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:35, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Without caption boxes, it's not clear what the banners are. I know it seems self-explanatory to us, but for someone who's never seen them before, it's not. I'll take a look at the icons in a bit. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 17:03, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I find repeating "This is the Banner of X" to be tedious, and the red background to be jarring. Couldn't we simply note that the banner/icon/flag/colors of the colony is provided to the right? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:06, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Peter. You've saved us all. As I said earlier, I liked it when the banner appeared to be hanging from the red line under its colony's name. I share Peter's dislike for tons of white space and alternating the sides seemed to create the least of that. However, if we just had the emblem and colors from each flag, we could do it below the red line as Fang seems to like, and not have this huge, long graphic. Maybe we can then link the full banner pics and, if we get enough information that a given colony's article wouldn't be a stub, we can display it there. Does all that make sense? --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I like it with banners to right, with titling, albeit a little redundant. Not sure how to deal with the "white space" of many areas, but we're really not going to get them filled until we get more data, so that is that. I feel it's informative enough as it stands, but I'll leave the formatting arguments alone. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:52, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

==Which flag is which?==
A close viewing of [[Colonial Day]] indicates that the flag currently labeled as [[The Twelve Colonies#Tauron|Tauron]] belongs to Safiya Sanne's seat - either Picon or Leonis; and that the black flag belongs to Robin Wenutu's seat (Canceron), and that VIrgon's flag is a white field with a green inner stripe and yellow outer stripe. I'm curious as to how QuintusCinna came to his conclusion that the delegates aren't seated at their apprporiate flags, since I don't know any other evidence linking particular flags to colonies. I guess Scorpion is pretty obvious, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:34, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Don't trust the banners lining up with those they represent in [[Colonial Day]]. The reason I say this is that [[Tom Zarek]] is in one area of the room and his very obvious banner for Sagitarron is completely in another area. This is the same for Virgon's banner and their representative. There are 3 different questions I carry thanks to the shows I have watched. In the mini-series we see the banners are in this order from left to right: [[Virgon]], [[Picon]], [[Caprica]], [[Aerelon]], [[Gemenon]], Scorpion, Aquaria(?), [[Tauron]], Libra (?), [[Sagittaron]], [[Canceron]] (?), [[Leonis]]. Is this in the order that the colonies signed the unification treaty or is the order for the flags random or is it in the order they were nuked? Though I am sure the producers, directors, and such just put them up in random order, it is now a sense of fact for the show. If we were to believe they were placed up there, the banners must be up there in some order that is according to military protocol for flag bearing. In Colonial Day I add 2 more questions. We see that the banners are behind the delegates in a different order than in the mini-series. This means they were either a) put up randomly or b) have a separate purpose than those shown at the end of the mini-series (nuked, treaty order, or other). Then we see that the delegates are put in a different order than the banners behind them. The Gemenon delegate is clearly seen toward the middle and the Gemenon flag is clearly in a different area. The same questions come up for the delegates: are they randomly placed or is there reason. It's not alphabetical, and placements of delegates and banners in every society is always in some sort of traditional order. I hope that the Battlestar Galactica producers, writers, and such will be able to answer this though I suspect they won't because they have REAL lives.

As for the Picon flag, the constellation looks quite similar to the picon banner and the same goes for Tauron's with Taurus. I have no doubt with those. The Libra's icon can be seen in this picture http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/HorseAstrology/AstrologySymbol.gif 2 clockwise from Sagittarius.
--[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 1:12, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

==New Icons==
What do you think? We might consider making them smaller and removing the image frame and caption, but I'd also be happy leaving them as they are. It's nice to have a place to note that some of the symbols are only tentatively identified with the colonies in question. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:42, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:It looks fine. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 09:11, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I like 'em. I'd say smaller, though. Of course... I have my thumb settings to 300px so that screen shots are large enough to be intelligible, so smaller to me would be about 150px or 100px. I also like alternating for balance, but that's just me. I alternate right a left in other articles, too. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:21, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

==Residence vs. Tribe==

I think there's a difference between "where a character currently makes their residence" and "what colony they are from". I think "what colony they are from" means "what ''tribe''" they are. For example, Dualla could have been away from Sagittaron for years and lived on another Colony, but she's still from the Sagittaron tribe. In "Bastille Day", she describes herself as "a Sagittaron", not "someone ''from'' Sagittaron".

Anyway, I also think that non-canonical information from SkyOne website should not be used in assuming Stabuck may be from Picon, not Caprica. We should wait until this is said on either the Scifi.com official site, or on screen.
--Ricimer, 16 Sept, 2005

==Outposts==

Ricimer wrote: ''The Colonials actually expanded their sphere of influence over time beyond the original Twelve Colonies to include several outposts, bases, and mining colonies (such as [[Troy]]) in other systems ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html| RDM, January 30, 2005]), though they were apparently minor extensions of the original Twelve Colonies rather than independently functioning worlds in their own right, and when the Cylons overwhelmed the Twelve Colonies themselves no mention is even explicity made about these minor worlds, seeming to take it as a given that the destruction of the Twelve Colonies would equal the destruction of humanity, and that these outposts were not significant enough to pose any challenge to the Cylon fleet.''

RDM's actual comments are:

:Q: "Did the colonies have outposts, bases, or trade partners outside of the 12 colonies. Did they even explore other systems. The colonies could have had observatories, listening posts, or even scientific research teams exploring other planets beyond the colonial system(s). They could encounter any of these which could lead to supplies, raw materials, food, fuel etc. "

:RDM: I think that's probably true, but part of our premise is that the fleet has Jumped far out into unexplored space in an effort to elude the Cylons, so we won't be encountered any other outposts or colonies.

I think that's a very weak confirmation, and if we're going to include it here, it should reflect the vagueness of RDM's actual comment. I have replaced it with the following:

:Ronald D. Moore has suggested that the Colonies probably maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems, but it is unlikely that ''Galactica'' will encounter them in the course of the series. ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016|RDM, January 30, 2005])

--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:35, 15 December 2005 (EST)

==Scorpion vs. Scorpia==

At present, we have a name card from "[[Colonial Day]]" and the name of the [[Scorpia Traveler]] in favor of "Scorpia", and the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] in favor of "Scorpion". Ricimer, if you want to make a case for "Scorpion" over "Scorpia", you ''must'' cite an episode quote, and I will not produce it for you. Your uncited revisions are anathema to our goal of accuracy. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:34, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:I am sorry, I was in a hurry to get out and didn't have time to wip out my copy of the series companion. On p.86 of "Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion", by David Bassom, there is an "''early'' concept sketch of the flags of the Twele Colonies"; On this, it lists the names "Scorpia", but also "Libran", and "Aquarion". "[[Colonial Day]]" established that these two Colonies are in fact named "Libra" and "Aquaria", in dialog, etc. This evidence has led me to believe that "Scorpia" was amongst some early ideas for Colony names that were thrown around in the early stages of production, but which were later changed; however, the art and props department wasn't notified of the switch, or made a mistake, etc. I'm also inclined to this line of thinking because the props in this scene feature several now-infamous goofs, such as the switcheroo between Canceron, Picon, Leonis, etc., etc. As for the evidence from "Scorpia Traveler", there's also a "Gemini" ship, as well as mispelling etc. which have led me to the belief that certain ship names are just meant for asthetic value and do not necessarily reflect the actual name of their home Colony. In "Home, Part II" it was established that the Colonies used to have "ancient names" which align more closely to the signs of the Zodiac, but which over the millenia have drifted away into their present form. Perhaps some ship captains just felt like naming their vessels after the more ancient names. I don't know. But the main points remain: A) Ship names aren't very reliable as an information source, B) this scene had many goofs in it, C) the official companion shows that this was an early name thrown around, but later abandoned, and several of these early names have been disproven by this point. Therefore, I think "Scorpion Fleet Shipyards", the first ''prominent'' mention of Scorpion/Scorpia, taken with the above evidence, proves that the true name of the Colony is "Scorpion". What's everyone else's consensus? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:24, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::I'm with Ricimer on this one.--Zareck Rocks 15:04, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::I agree with Ricimer, as Cain's mention of the "scorpion fleet shipyards" is the only canonical reference to place when it comes to the scorpio-related colony. It has also been shown, as Ricimer mentions above, that the ship names seem to be variations of the colony names i.e. [[Gemenon Taveller]] and the [[Gemini]]. So we can't necessarily glean the name of the scorpio-related colony from the [[Scorpia Traveller]], for there may also be a Scorpion Traveller.
::However, unless someone can verify this with subtitles, Cain could be saying Scorpi''an'' fleet shipyards, rather than Scorpi''on'', thereby inferring that the colony name is Scorpia (I dare to speculate that the Caprica would have it's own Caprican fleet shipyards(if it did indeed have shipyards)). I don't have the DVDs, as they're not yet available in Canada, but someone should really check this, it could answer this question --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 16:20, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::I've grepped the TwizTV logs, and the Scorpia/Scorpion colony has never been referred to apart from the instances we've already listed. So, here's what that means:
:::#We have a mention of the "Scorpia Traveler", which matches the "Gemenon Traveler". "Freighter Gemini" is a TOS reference.
:::#We have a comment that might be the "Scorpion" shipyards, or the "Scorpian" shipyards.
:::#We have a clear and readable screenshot of the name of the colony.
:::We should not "correct" the name of the colony to what we think it "should" be, when we have unequivocal evidence staring us in the face. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:09, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::I'm sorry, but it doesn't really seem like the above evidence is "unequivocal". Thankfully, I think "Resurrection Ship" will make further mention of ''Pegasus' '' flight from the shipyards, and we will probably hear the name again. Best to wait until then. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:05, 25 December 2005 (EST)
:::::Let me clarify. We have at least seen "Scorpia" spelled out. We have never even ''heard'' "Scorpion", except in a context that might easily have been "Scorpian". In my opinion, the two options here are "Scorpia" or "We don't know". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:45, 25 December 2005 (EST)
::::::Wait a minute, someone out there has got to have the DVD set of the second season, we should be able to determine the definitive name of the scorpio colony from that. Although, I suppose, Peter, that you're suggesting we leave it at Scorpia until someone can check the subtitles. That sounds fine with me. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 22:56, 25 December 2005 (EST)

Talk:The Twelve Colonies of Kobol/Archive3

2005-12-25T21:20:48Z

MASON: Scorpion vs. Scorpian

==Merge proposal==

This article, and the articles for each of the Twelve Colonies, are all very short, and I don't see any of them expanding substantially in the near future. I think it would make for a nice looking, meaty article if we merged in each of the individual colony articles with this one under first-level headings. How say you all? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 04:50, 31 August 2005 (EDT)

I know this looks weird and kind of dumb. I'm still fiddling. It's easy to revert if the whole thing ends up being too hideous to bear. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:17, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

[[image:Banner_unknown1.gif|left|75px]][[image:Banner_unknown2.gif|right|75px]]
: I like the idea and whats up now. If we knew more about each colony, it would look nicer, but until then I think this is fine. Now... What to do with these other two banners? Now, the two colonies without banners are Leo and Aquarius, the lion and the water-bearer. Both of these symbols could be a water-bearer, I guess, but I think the black and white one looks like he has whisters, there and that shape at the top looks more ear-like. That would leave the blue and red one to be the water bearer, which I think makes sense enough. Think we could drop those in with a note as to their speculative nature, or best not to? --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:27, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::I'm leaving this one up to [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]], our resident flag-hunter. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:32, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The two colonies without banners is Aquarius and whatever the colonial name is for Libra. I saw in the mini-series they mentioned a colony called "ICON" alongside of "PICON" so I'm a little weirded out. As for Leonis, that flag has been found. I did a picture search in google for the zodiac's constellation and found the flag's symbol looked exactly like what I have designated. I can't remember, but I believe the constellation for Libra looked quite similar to the black one. Since we don't yet know as of yet what is the name for the Libra colony, I have left it blank. [[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]]

:At least we know it isn't Ophiuchi or something. Roslin identifies Libra in the Tomb of Athena map room, although she doesn't give its modern name. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:59, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Realizing that it's still being worked on, it looks awful right now. You can't tell which banner goes to which colony, for one thing. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 08:30, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Personally, I don't really like the combination of all 12 colonies together either since there is no set border and down the road we will have pictures relating to each colony. This will make it slower to download. --[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 12:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:The problem, in my opinion, is that there's little to do at the main article other than simply list the colonies, and the majority of the individual colonies are stub-like in length. As for images, Caprica is the only planet we've seen thus far and probably the only one we're likely to see (unless we get Scorpion in a flashback in Pegasus or something). One thing we can do, if it becomes necessary, is link to full-length articles from just underneath the first-level headings.

:As for the banners, I agree that they could be confusing but I rather like them right now. Do either of you think it coudl be re-arranged in a better manner (maybe if they didn't alternate sides? But then there'd be a lot more wasted space)? Or is it a lost cause in your opinions? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:20, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::Yeah, you could try putting all the banners on the right. See how it looks. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 14:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::There, that's what they look like right-aligned. Frankly, I think they look better alternating. I don't find it confusing, and the wasted space bugs me. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:36, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::Hate to say it, but I don't like it at all. The banners overlap with the previous colony's "box", there are no clear markers indicating where one section begins and another ends, it just looks bad. (Part of the problem is that we don't have much information about many of the colonies at this point.) --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:07, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::::It'd be better if we could insert a line across the entire page, and have the colony name under that line, along with the banner on the right. Then each colony would have a neat, easily readable section. I don't know if Wiki markup is capable of that though. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 15:10, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:::::I still think it's a better option than thirteen articles that are completely insubstantial on their own. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

I added captions to some of the banners, and in the process deleted some of the <nowiki><div></nowiki> markup. Wikipedia recommends against using HTML ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_markup_with_HTML]), and I've been trying to learn from the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax Extended image syntax] page. I can't figure out why a new section like <nowiki>==Caprica==</nowiki> doesn't appear on the same level as its banner. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:09, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

:Ah ha! The wonders of '''<nowiki> </nowiki>'''! What do you guys think of the formatting now? --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 16:28, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

::My HTML/CSS was not used lightly. That's really the one way to get the banners at the section heading level as I did. Frankly this seems like a more cumbersome version of my right-aligned attempt. I really dislike the caption boxes, too.
::I have a new idea: Rather than use the (rather long) banners, we can grab the icons from each, along with the background colors, and use them. I've created nine high-resolution versions from QuintusCinna's originals, which you can link to below:
::[http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/aerelon.png Aerelon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/canceron.png Canceron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/caprica.png Caprica], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/gemenon.png Gemenon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/picon.png Picon], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/sagittaron.png Sagittaron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/scorpion.png Scorpion], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/tauron.png Tauron], [http://home.comcast.net/~suluger/virgon.png Virgon]
::These could be scaled down to almost any size and still look nice. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:35, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Without caption boxes, it's not clear what the banners are. I know it seems self-explanatory to us, but for someone who's never seen them before, it's not. I'll take a look at the icons in a bit. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 17:03, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
::::I find repeating "This is the Banner of X" to be tedious, and the red background to be jarring. Couldn't we simply note that the banner/icon/flag/colors of the colony is provided to the right? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:06, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::Peter. You've saved us all. As I said earlier, I liked it when the banner appeared to be hanging from the red line under its colony's name. I share Peter's dislike for tons of white space and alternating the sides seemed to create the least of that. However, if we just had the emblem and colors from each flag, we could do it below the red line as Fang seems to like, and not have this huge, long graphic. Maybe we can then link the full banner pics and, if we get enough information that a given colony's article wouldn't be a stub, we can display it there. Does all that make sense? --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:11, 14 September 2005 (EDT)
:::::I like it with banners to right, with titling, albeit a little redundant. Not sure how to deal with the "white space" of many areas, but we're really not going to get them filled until we get more data, so that is that. I feel it's informative enough as it stands, but I'll leave the formatting arguments alone. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 19:52, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

==Which flag is which?==
A close viewing of [[Colonial Day]] indicates that the flag currently labeled as [[The Twelve Colonies#Tauron|Tauron]] belongs to Safiya Sanne's seat - either Picon or Leonis; and that the black flag belongs to Robin Wenutu's seat (Canceron), and that VIrgon's flag is a white field with a green inner stripe and yellow outer stripe. I'm curious as to how QuintusCinna came to his conclusion that the delegates aren't seated at their apprporiate flags, since I don't know any other evidence linking particular flags to colonies. I guess Scorpion is pretty obvious, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:34, 14 September 2005 (EDT)

Don't trust the banners lining up with those they represent in [[Colonial Day]]. The reason I say this is that [[Tom Zarek]] is in one area of the room and his very obvious banner for Sagitarron is completely in another area. This is the same for Virgon's banner and their representative. There are 3 different questions I carry thanks to the shows I have watched. In the mini-series we see the banners are in this order from left to right: [[Virgon]], [[Picon]], [[Caprica]], [[Aerelon]], [[Gemenon]], Scorpion, Aquaria(?), [[Tauron]], Libra (?), [[Sagittaron]], [[Canceron]] (?), [[Leonis]]. Is this in the order that the colonies signed the unification treaty or is the order for the flags random or is it in the order they were nuked? Though I am sure the producers, directors, and such just put them up in random order, it is now a sense of fact for the show. If we were to believe they were placed up there, the banners must be up there in some order that is according to military protocol for flag bearing. In Colonial Day I add 2 more questions. We see that the banners are behind the delegates in a different order than in the mini-series. This means they were either a) put up randomly or b) have a separate purpose than those shown at the end of the mini-series (nuked, treaty order, or other). Then we see that the delegates are put in a different order than the banners behind them. The Gemenon delegate is clearly seen toward the middle and the Gemenon flag is clearly in a different area. The same questions come up for the delegates: are they randomly placed or is there reason. It's not alphabetical, and placements of delegates and banners in every society is always in some sort of traditional order. I hope that the Battlestar Galactica producers, writers, and such will be able to answer this though I suspect they won't because they have REAL lives.

As for the Picon flag, the constellation looks quite similar to the picon banner and the same goes for Tauron's with Taurus. I have no doubt with those. The Libra's icon can be seen in this picture http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/HorseAstrology/AstrologySymbol.gif 2 clockwise from Sagittarius.
--[[User:QuintusCinna|QuintusCinna]] 1:12, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

==New Icons==
What do you think? We might consider making them smaller and removing the image frame and caption, but I'd also be happy leaving them as they are. It's nice to have a place to note that some of the symbols are only tentatively identified with the colonies in question. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:42, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:It looks fine. --[[User:Fang Aili|Fang Aili]] 09:11, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

:: I like 'em. I'd say smaller, though. Of course... I have my thumb settings to 300px so that screen shots are large enough to be intelligible, so smaller to me would be about 150px or 100px. I also like alternating for balance, but that's just me. I alternate right a left in other articles, too. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:21, 15 September 2005 (EDT)

==Residence vs. Tribe==

I think there's a difference between "where a character currently makes their residence" and "what colony they are from". I think "what colony they are from" means "what ''tribe''" they are. For example, Dualla could have been away from Sagittaron for years and lived on another Colony, but she's still from the Sagittaron tribe. In "Bastille Day", she describes herself as "a Sagittaron", not "someone ''from'' Sagittaron".

Anyway, I also think that non-canonical information from SkyOne website should not be used in assuming Stabuck may be from Picon, not Caprica. We should wait until this is said on either the Scifi.com official site, or on screen.
--Ricimer, 16 Sept, 2005

==Outposts==

Ricimer wrote: ''The Colonials actually expanded their sphere of influence over time beyond the original Twelve Colonies to include several outposts, bases, and mining colonies (such as [[Troy]]) in other systems ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html| RDM, January 30, 2005]), though they were apparently minor extensions of the original Twelve Colonies rather than independently functioning worlds in their own right, and when the Cylons overwhelmed the Twelve Colonies themselves no mention is even explicity made about these minor worlds, seeming to take it as a given that the destruction of the Twelve Colonies would equal the destruction of humanity, and that these outposts were not significant enough to pose any challenge to the Cylon fleet.''

RDM's actual comments are:

:Q: "Did the colonies have outposts, bases, or trade partners outside of the 12 colonies. Did they even explore other systems. The colonies could have had observatories, listening posts, or even scientific research teams exploring other planets beyond the colonial system(s). They could encounter any of these which could lead to supplies, raw materials, food, fuel etc. "

:RDM: I think that's probably true, but part of our premise is that the fleet has Jumped far out into unexplored space in an effort to elude the Cylons, so we won't be encountered any other outposts or colonies.

I think that's a very weak confirmation, and if we're going to include it here, it should reflect the vagueness of RDM's actual comment. I have replaced it with the following:

:Ronald D. Moore has suggested that the Colonies probably maintained some minor observatories and listening posts in outlying star systems, but it is unlikely that ''Galactica'' will encounter them in the course of the series. ([http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#a000016|RDM, January 30, 2005])

--[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:35, 15 December 2005 (EST)

==Scorpion vs. Scorpia==

At present, we have a name card from "[[Colonial Day]]" and the name of the [[Scorpia Traveler]] in favor of "Scorpia", and the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] in favor of "Scorpion". Ricimer, if you want to make a case for "Scorpion" over "Scorpia", you ''must'' cite an episode quote, and I will not produce it for you. Your uncited revisions are anathema to our goal of accuracy. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:34, 25 December 2005 (EST)
*I am sorry, I was in a hurry to get out and didn't have time to wip out my copy of the series companion. On p.86 of "Battlestar Galactica: The Official Companion", by David Bassom, there is an "''early'' concept sketch of the flags of the Twele Colonies"; On this, it lists the names "Scorpia", but also "Libran", and "Aquarion". "[[Colonial Day]]" established that these two Colonies are in fact named "Libra" and "Aquaria", in dialog, etc. This evidence has led me to believe that "Scorpia" was amongst some early ideas for Colony names that were thrown around in the early stages of production, but which were later changed; however, the art and props department wasn't notified of the switch, or made a mistake, etc. I'm also inclined to this line of thinking because the props in this scene feature several now-infamous goofs, such as the switcheroo between Canceron, Picon, Leonis, etc., etc. As for the evidence from "Scorpia Traveler", there's also a "Gemini" ship, as well as mispelling etc. which have led me to the belief that certain ship names are just meant for asthetic value and do not necessarily reflect the actual name of their home Colony. In "Home, Part II" it was established that the Colonies used to have "ancient names" which align more closely to the signs of the Zodiac, but which over the millenia have drifted away into their present form. Perhaps some ship captains just felt like naming their vessels after the more ancient names. I don't know. But the main points remain: A) Ship names aren't very reliable as an information source, B) this scene had many goofs in it, C) the official companion shows that this was an early name thrown around, but later abandoned, and several of these early names have been disproven by this point. Therefore, I think "Scorpion Fleet Shipyards", the first ''prominent'' mention of Scorpion/Scorpia, taken with the above evidence, proves that the true name of the Colony is "Scorpion". What's everyone else's consensus? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 14:24, 25 December 2005 (EST)
**I'm with Ricimer on this one.--Zareck Rocks 15:04, 25 December 2005 (EST)
**I agree with Ricimer, as Cain's mention of the "scorpion fleet shipyards" is the only canonical reference to place when it comes to the scorpio-related colony. It has also been shown, as Ricimer mentions above, that the ship names seem to be variations of the colony names i.e. [[Gemenon Taveller]] and the [[Gemini]]. So we can't necessarily glean the name of the scorpio-related colony from the [[Scorpia Traveller]], for there may also be a Scorpion Traveller.
**However, unless someone can verify this with subtitles, Cain could be saying Scorpi''an'' fleet shipyards, rather than Scorpi''on'', thereby inferring that the colony name is Scorpia (I dare to speculate that the Caprica would have it's own Caprican fleet shipyards(if it did indeed have shipyards)). I don't have the DVDs, as they're not yet available in Canada, but someone should really check this, it could answer this question --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 16:20, 25 December 2005 (EST)

Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship/Ricimer

2005-12-24T17:54:49Z

MASON:

===[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]]===
'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:<nowiki>Battlestar_Wiki:Requests_for_adminship/Ricimer</nowiki>|action=edit}} Vote here] '''
'''(2/2/0) ending <nowiki>09:15</nowiki> 28 December 2005 (EST)'''

{{User|Ricimer}} – I think I'd be good for administrator because of A) My stagering knowledge of all things BSG (haha), B) my extensive body of work here notably on the episode guides, battle pages, and C) My political handling of debates such as "Are there 12 Cylon models", which all resulted in compromise rather than arbitrary deletion. D) My good looks. I'm formally putting myself up for nomination, etc. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 09:15, 21 December 2005 (EST)

:''Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:''

'''Support'''
# I was waiting until the RFA got a little more ironed out before nominating you, but I guess I can still contribute by casting a vote. While he may come off as abrasive at times, he is unquestionably a vigilant defender of the Battlestar Wiki. The battle pages alone are a major addition, one that I am trying to use as a model to migrate over to the TOS side. You can tell Ricimer takes the Battlestar wiki pretty seriously. I mean, not too many users will hold out "until the flesh is hacked from [their] bones" to defend a principle they strongly believe. This nomination completes the trifecta of my favorites, and I think he would make a fine admin. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:07, 21 December 2005 (EST)
# FOR. I won't elaborate because I need to get to the bank and then make a movie time. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:08, 21 December 2005 (EST)

'''Oppose'''
#Comment: Ricimer's temper issues, especially with regard to new contributors, strike me as a serious and ongoing problem. He has demonstrated substantial improvement recently, and his excellent contributions speak for themselves, but I sadly cannot support his RFA at this time. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:51, 21 December 2005 (EST)
#*Having given this matter substantial thought, I am now changing my vote to "Oppose". I want to preface my arguments by stating that I do not consider Ricimer to be an enemy by any stretch of the imagination. He is one of our best contributors, as I have stated on numerous occasions. However, I do not believe that this alone qualifies him for adminship, and I do in fact have serious reservations about that prospect. To continue:
#*Ricimer has demonstrated extreme hostility toward newbies on numerous occasions, as pointed out by both myself and others on his talk page. Although he has improved as of very recently, recent comments such as "helps to have conservative ballast around" and "best to strike while the iron is hot", do not - to me - indicate that he has repented of his past behavior. Although I frequently agree with his criticisms of new users' contributions, I do not admire his attacks and abrasive language towards newbies. The vast majority of such contributions are made in good faith. Those that are factually incorrect can be removed; those that are badly written can be corrected. The only "bad users" are those who are unresponsive to communication and refuse to cooperate in the wiki community, and in such cases harsh language is plainly without efficacy.
#*He has conducted himself with a hot-headed style which leaves him open to attack (as we saw with the Jzanjani incident). I do not mean to imply that Ricimer would abuse any powers delegated to him, but his haste to anger and quick judgements will not serve him well as an administrator.
#*In conclusion, I must '''oppose''' Ricimer's RFA. I hope that my comments will not impede our cooperation on future projects, and that he will understand that my opinions are not born from any personal grudge. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:56, 22 December 2005 (EST)
#Despite Ricimer's great contributions to the wiki, I don't approve of his behaviour towards other contributing members. A relative majority of his comments appear hostile in nature, and behaviour of this kind will only provoke trolls to vandalize the articles. That said, Ricimer, keep up the excellent contributions, your vigilance is appreciated, but needs to be tempered. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 12:52, 24 December 2005 (EST)

'''Neutral'''

# I think Ricimer is one of our strongest contributors on this wiki: the various battle pages, starting with the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] are some of his most excellent work. And, while sometimes a bit too gruff in his responses, he's ready to fend his point of view or sources from all comers. We're still working on improving his funny bone (he wasn't too pleased with the non-sequitur [[Toaster]] and [[The Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game]] articles, with some important dissent), but Ricimer's dedication to keeping the wiki informative, dynamic and from becoming a farce cannot be denied.

:*As an admin, I'm torn a bit. I think Ricimer is a fair person, but Ricimer has also documented that his gruffness can be taken the wrong way, causing others to be put off. Unfortunately, when he has been personally attacked, he tended to respond back in the same way, something that an administrator (in my opinion) can never do. I would recommend that voters look back on both Ricimer's contributions and missteps and judge for themselves. I think he'd be a good admin, but as both contributors and as administrators, we all have to show responibility, tact, and neutrality. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:15, 24 December 2005 (EST)

'''Comments'''

'''Questions for the candidate''' 

''A few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:''
:'''1.''' What duties, if any, would you anticipate helping with? Please check out [[:Category:Project Page]]s for a list of projects.
::A. First and foremost, the episode guides, the meat and potatos of this wiki. Secondly, I've been starting to help out with the podcast pages that got started. Thirdly, Citation Crusade: making sure "independent research" is not used.

:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions here, are there any about which you are particularly pleased, and why?
::A. The battles pages, all of which were of my own design (I made the battleboxes for Lord of the Rings battles on standard wikipedia, and when these were done, I wanted to keep doing ''something'' like that so I created the battles series here); secondly, due yo my vast knowledge of BSG trivial facts and analysis, I have made great contributions to the episode guides, and as it's not like I have a life outside of this :) I'm usually the first to post notes for an episode up after it airs (though this is not a rule), and I'm really happy with the episode guide stuff I've done (check the history tabs, etc).

:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
::A. Firstly, debate and compromise. I had that running 12 Cylons debate with Philwelch, but it was resolved civily and now we're cool. Secondly, in cases of that troll Jzanjani, who kept attacking me, I requested that he be put on temporary ban by Joe, and he was.

Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship/Ricimer

2005-12-24T17:54:16Z

MASON:

===[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]]===
'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:<nowiki>Battlestar_Wiki:Requests_for_adminship/Ricimer</nowiki>|action=edit}} Vote here] '''
'''(2/1/0) ending <nowiki>09:15</nowiki> 28 December 2005 (EST)'''

{{User|Ricimer}} – I think I'd be good for administrator because of A) My stagering knowledge of all things BSG (haha), B) my extensive body of work here notably on the episode guides, battle pages, and C) My political handling of debates such as "Are there 12 Cylon models", which all resulted in compromise rather than arbitrary deletion. D) My good looks. I'm formally putting myself up for nomination, etc. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 09:15, 21 December 2005 (EST)

:''Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:''

'''Support'''
# I was waiting until the RFA got a little more ironed out before nominating you, but I guess I can still contribute by casting a vote. While he may come off as abrasive at times, he is unquestionably a vigilant defender of the Battlestar Wiki. The battle pages alone are a major addition, one that I am trying to use as a model to migrate over to the TOS side. You can tell Ricimer takes the Battlestar wiki pretty seriously. I mean, not too many users will hold out "until the flesh is hacked from [their] bones" to defend a principle they strongly believe. This nomination completes the trifecta of my favorites, and I think he would make a fine admin. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:07, 21 December 2005 (EST)
# FOR. I won't elaborate because I need to get to the bank and then make a movie time. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:08, 21 December 2005 (EST)

'''Oppose'''
#Comment: Ricimer's temper issues, especially with regard to new contributors, strike me as a serious and ongoing problem. He has demonstrated substantial improvement recently, and his excellent contributions speak for themselves, but I sadly cannot support his RFA at this time. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:51, 21 December 2005 (EST)
#*Having given this matter substantial thought, I am now changing my vote to "Oppose". I want to preface my arguments by stating that I do not consider Ricimer to be an enemy by any stretch of the imagination. He is one of our best contributors, as I have stated on numerous occasions. However, I do not believe that this alone qualifies him for adminship, and I do in fact have serious reservations about that prospect. To continue:
#*Ricimer has demonstrated extreme hostility toward newbies on numerous occasions, as pointed out by both myself and others on his talk page. Although he has improved as of very recently, recent comments such as "helps to have conservative ballast around" and "best to strike while the iron is hot", do not - to me - indicate that he has repented of his past behavior. Although I frequently agree with his criticisms of new users' contributions, I do not admire his attacks and abrasive language towards newbies. The vast majority of such contributions are made in good faith. Those that are factually incorrect can be removed; those that are badly written can be corrected. The only "bad users" are those who are unresponsive to communication and refuse to cooperate in the wiki community, and in such cases harsh language is plainly without efficacy.
#*He has conducted himself with a hot-headed style which leaves him open to attack (as we saw with the Jzanjani incident). I do not mean to imply that Ricimer would abuse any powers delegated to him, but his haste to anger and quick judgements will not serve him well as an administrator.
#*In conclusion, I must '''oppose''' Ricimer's RFA. I hope that my comments will not impede our cooperation on future projects, and that he will understand that my opinions are not born from any personal grudge. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:56, 22 December 2005 (EST)
#Despite Ricimer's great contributions to the wiki, I don't approve of his behaviour towards other contributing members. A relative majority of his comments appear hostile in nature, and behaviour of this kind will only provoke trolls to vandalize the articles. That said, Ricimer, keep up the excellent contributions, your vigilance is appreciated, but needs to be tempered. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 12:52, 24 December 2005 (EST)

'''Neutral'''

# I think Ricimer is one of our strongest contributors on this wiki: the various battle pages, starting with the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] are some of his most excellent work. And, while sometimes a bit too gruff in his responses, he's ready to fend his point of view or sources from all comers. We're still working on improving his funny bone (he wasn't too pleased with the non-sequitur [[Toaster]] and [[The Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game]] articles, with some important dissent), but Ricimer's dedication to keeping the wiki informative, dynamic and from becoming a farce cannot be denied.

:*As an admin, I'm torn a bit. I think Ricimer is a fair person, but Ricimer has also documented that his gruffness can be taken the wrong way, causing others to be put off. Unfortunately, when he has been personally attacked, he tended to respond back in the same way, something that an administrator (in my opinion) can never do. I would recommend that voters look back on both Ricimer's contributions and missteps and judge for themselves. I think he'd be a good admin, but as both contributors and as administrators, we all have to show responibility, tact, and neutrality. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:15, 24 December 2005 (EST)

'''Comments'''

'''Questions for the candidate''' 

''A few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:''
:'''1.''' What duties, if any, would you anticipate helping with? Please check out [[:Category:Project Page]]s for a list of projects.
::A. First and foremost, the episode guides, the meat and potatos of this wiki. Secondly, I've been starting to help out with the podcast pages that got started. Thirdly, Citation Crusade: making sure "independent research" is not used.

:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions here, are there any about which you are particularly pleased, and why?
::A. The battles pages, all of which were of my own design (I made the battleboxes for Lord of the Rings battles on standard wikipedia, and when these were done, I wanted to keep doing ''something'' like that so I created the battles series here); secondly, due yo my vast knowledge of BSG trivial facts and analysis, I have made great contributions to the episode guides, and as it's not like I have a life outside of this :) I'm usually the first to post notes for an episode up after it airs (though this is not a rule), and I'm really happy with the episode guide stuff I've done (check the history tabs, etc).

:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
::A. Firstly, debate and compromise. I had that running 12 Cylons debate with Philwelch, but it was resolved civily and now we're cool. Secondly, in cases of that troll Jzanjani, who kept attacking me, I requested that he be put on temporary ban by Joe, and he was.

Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship/Ricimer

2005-12-24T17:52:24Z

MASON:

===[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]]===
'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:<nowiki>Battlestar_Wiki:Requests_for_adminship/Ricimer</nowiki>|action=edit}} Vote here] '''
'''(2/1/0) ending <nowiki>09:15</nowiki> 28 December 2005 (EST)'''

{{User|Ricimer}} – I think I'd be good for administrator because of A) My stagering knowledge of all things BSG (haha), B) my extensive body of work here notably on the episode guides, battle pages, and C) My political handling of debates such as "Are there 12 Cylon models", which all resulted in compromise rather than arbitrary deletion. D) My good looks. I'm formally putting myself up for nomination, etc. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 09:15, 21 December 2005 (EST)

:''Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:''

'''Support'''
# I was waiting until the RFA got a little more ironed out before nominating you, but I guess I can still contribute by casting a vote. While he may come off as abrasive at times, he is unquestionably a vigilant defender of the Battlestar Wiki. The battle pages alone are a major addition, one that I am trying to use as a model to migrate over to the TOS side. You can tell Ricimer takes the Battlestar wiki pretty seriously. I mean, not too many users will hold out "until the flesh is hacked from [their] bones" to defend a principle they strongly believe. This nomination completes the trifecta of my favorites, and I think he would make a fine admin. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:07, 21 December 2005 (EST)
# FOR. I won't elaborate because I need to get to the bank and then make a movie time. --[[User:Day|Day]] 14:08, 21 December 2005 (EST)

'''Oppose'''
#Comment: Ricimer's temper issues, especially with regard to new contributors, strike me as a serious and ongoing problem. He has demonstrated substantial improvement recently, and his excellent contributions speak for themselves, but I sadly cannot support his RFA at this time. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:51, 21 December 2005 (EST)
#*Having given this matter substantial thought, I am now changing my vote to "Oppose". I want to preface my arguments by stating that I do not consider Ricimer to be an enemy by any stretch of the imagination. He is one of our best contributors, as I have stated on numerous occasions. However, I do not believe that this alone qualifies him for adminship, and I do in fact have serious reservations about that prospect. To continue:
#*Ricimer has demonstrated extreme hostility toward newbies on numerous occasions, as pointed out by both myself and others on his talk page. Although he has improved as of very recently, recent comments such as "helps to have conservative ballast around" and "best to strike while the iron is hot", do not - to me - indicate that he has repented of his past behavior. Although I frequently agree with his criticisms of new users' contributions, I do not admire his attacks and abrasive language towards newbies. The vast majority of such contributions are made in good faith. Those that are factually incorrect can be removed; those that are badly written can be corrected. The only "bad users" are those who are unresponsive to communication and refuse to cooperate in the wiki community, and in such cases harsh language is plainly without efficacy.
#*He has conducted himself with a hot-headed style which leaves him open to attack (as we saw with the Jzanjani incident). I do not mean to imply that Ricimer would abuse any powers delegated to him, but his haste to anger and quick judgements will not serve him well as an administrator.
#*In conclusion, I must '''oppose''' Ricimer's RFA. I hope that my comments will not impede our cooperation on future projects, and that he will understand that my opinions are not born from any personal grudge. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:56, 22 December 2005 (EST)

#*Despite Ricimer's great contributions to the wiki, I don't approve of his behaviour towards other contributing members. A relative majority of his comments appear hostile in nature, and behaviour of this kind will only provoke trolls to vandalize the articles. That said, Ricimer, keep up the excellent contributions, your vigilance is appreciated, but needs to be tempered. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 12:52, 24 December 2005 (EST)

'''Neutral'''

# I think Ricimer is one of our strongest contributors on this wiki: the various battle pages, starting with the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]] are some of his most excellent work. And, while sometimes a bit too gruff in his responses, he's ready to fend his point of view or sources from all comers. We're still working on improving his funny bone (he wasn't too pleased with the non-sequitur [[Toaster]] and [[The Battlestar Galactica Drinking Game]] articles, with some important dissent), but Ricimer's dedication to keeping the wiki informative, dynamic and from becoming a farce cannot be denied.

:*As an admin, I'm torn a bit. I think Ricimer is a fair person, but Ricimer has also documented that his gruffness can be taken the wrong way, causing others to be put off. Unfortunately, when he has been personally attacked, he tended to respond back in the same way, something that an administrator (in my opinion) can never do. I would recommend that voters look back on both Ricimer's contributions and missteps and judge for themselves. I think he'd be a good admin, but as both contributors and as administrators, we all have to show responibility, tact, and neutrality. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:15, 24 December 2005 (EST)

'''Comments'''

'''Questions for the candidate''' 

''A few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:''
:'''1.''' What duties, if any, would you anticipate helping with? Please check out [[:Category:Project Page]]s for a list of projects.
::A. First and foremost, the episode guides, the meat and potatos of this wiki. Secondly, I've been starting to help out with the podcast pages that got started. Thirdly, Citation Crusade: making sure "independent research" is not used.

:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions here, are there any about which you are particularly pleased, and why?
::A. The battles pages, all of which were of my own design (I made the battleboxes for Lord of the Rings battles on standard wikipedia, and when these were done, I wanted to keep doing ''something'' like that so I created the battles series here); secondly, due yo my vast knowledge of BSG trivial facts and analysis, I have made great contributions to the episode guides, and as it's not like I have a life outside of this :) I'm usually the first to post notes for an episode up after it airs (though this is not a rule), and I'm really happy with the episode guide stuff I've done (check the history tabs, etc).

:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
::A. Firstly, debate and compromise. I had that running 12 Cylons debate with Philwelch, but it was resolved civily and now we're cool. Secondly, in cases of that troll Jzanjani, who kept attacking me, I requested that he be put on temporary ban by Joe, and he was.

Battlestar Group

2005-12-22T05:57:00Z

MASON:

{{shortcut|BSG 75}}

A '''Battlestar Group''' is a [[Colonial Fleet]] unit lead by a [[battlestar]]. On ship crests, badges, and documents it is often abbreviated as "BSG".

Battlestar Groups are seen by [[Ronald D. Moore]] as analagous to a modern-day [[Wikipedia:Carrier battle group|Carrier Battle Group]], comprising at least one battlestar, plus a number of support vessels. Given the number of available battlestars at the outbreak of hostilities with the [[Cylon attack]], it is possible that a battlestar group may have comprised a number (3-4) battlestars operating as a single unit, supported by additional Colonial vessels.

==Known Battlestar Groups==
BSG 62: Lead by [[Mercury class battlestar|''Mercury'' class battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', under Admiral [[Helena Cain]]. (This identification is tentative, based on a few blurry images from "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]". It may be possible to get a better look in "[[Resurrection Ship]]".)

BSG 75: Lead by [[Original battlestar (RDM)|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', under Commander [[William Adama]]. This group's high unit number belies the age of ''Galactica'', one of the oldest ships in the fleet.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Battlestar Group

2005-12-22T05:38:56Z

MASON: Pegasus BSG 62 confirmed from leaked Sci-Fi screen caps from eps 211/212

{{shortcut|BSG 75}}

A '''Battlestar Group''' is a [[Colonial Fleet]] unit lead by a [[battlestar]]. On ship crests, badges, and documents it is often abbreviated as "BSG".

Battlestar Groups are seen by [[Ronald D. Moore]] as analagous to a modern-day [[Wikipedia:Carrier battle group|Carrier Battle Group]], comprising at least one battlestar, plus a number of support vessels. Given the number of available battlestars at the outbreak of hostilities with the [[Cylon attack]], it is possible that a battlestar group may have comprised a number (3-4) battlestars operating as a single unit, supported by additional Colonial vessels.

==Known Battlestar Groups==

BSG 62: Lead by [[Mercury class battlestar|''Mercury'' class battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', under Admiral [[Helena Cain]]. (This identification is tentative, based on a few blurry images from "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]". It may be possible to get a better look in "[[Resurrection Ship]]".)

BSG 75: Lead by [[Original battlestar (RDM)|battlestar]] ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', under Commander [[William Adama]]. This group's high unit number belies the age of ''Galactica'', one of the oldest ships in the fleet.

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Battlestar Wiki:Requests for adminship/April Arcus

2005-12-21T14:54:30Z

MASON: support of nomination

===[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]]===
'''[{{SERVER}}{{localurl:<nowiki>{{subst:FULLPAGENAME}}</nowiki>|action=edit}} Vote here] '''
'''(0/0/0) ending <nowiki>05:42</nowiki> {{{Ending}}} (UTC)'''

{{User|Peter Farago}} – {{{Description}}}

:''Candidate, please indicate acceptance of the nomination here:''

'''Support'''
# Is this where I say this? Anyway, I think Peter would be a good administrator chiefly because of the experience I had working out the [[Battlestar Wiki talk:Standards and Conventions/Archive01#Proposed Guidelines for Dispute Resoluton on Speculative Matters|conflict resolution guidelines]] of [[Sacred Scrolls]]. I also often appriciate his edits of the material added by myself and others. He tends to cut out the excess verbage and get right to the point. --[[User:Day|Day]] 01:06, 21 December 2005 (EST)

# I support this nomination. Peter has a singular balance of administrative, editorial, and wikipedian savvy that may rival any other contributor. His work in creating (and defending the principles of) several key projects that have helped define this wiki into the work it has become has benefitted everyone. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:58, 21 December 2005 (EST)

# I support Peter's nomination for his balanced opinions, moderate voice, and open mindedness when it comes to major changes to the wiki. Above all, though, for his strong commitment to the project. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 09:54, 21 December 2005 (EST)

'''Oppose'''
#

'''Neutral'''
#

'''Comments'''
*

'''Questions for the candidate''' 

''A few generic questions to provide guidance for voters:''
:'''1.''' What duties, if any, would you anticipate helping with? Please check out [[:Category:Project Page]]s for a list of projects.
::A.

:'''2.''' Of your articles or contributions here, are there any about which you are particularly pleased, and why?
::A.

:'''3.''' Have you been in any conflicts over editing in the past or do you feel other users have caused you stress? How have you dealt with it and how will you deal with it in the future?
::A.

Talk:Imperious Leader/Archive 1

2005-12-20T19:57:29Z

MASON:

Again, who or what is Barkol? To the best of my knowledge, this name has NEVER been mentioned in ANY Galactica project.

:While working the "Wanted" pages, I ran across Barkol, and I can't find anything about it. The only references I can find related to Barkol and Galactica are on this site. Anybody have any idea where the name is mentioned? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:38, 20 December 2005 (EST)
::I too was completely stumped by Barkol. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 14:57, 20 December 2005 (EST)

File talk:TheEnemysGateIsDown.jpg

2005-12-20T08:08:44Z

MASON:

Now that is cool! --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:14, 19 December 2005 (EST)

*I'm having trouble coming up with a name for this battle. "Battle of...?". Any suggestions? I think it's going to be fought in interstellar space, not near anything (i.e. can't even call it "battle of the bluey-green planetoid").--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 20:19, 19 December 2005 (EST)
::Maybe "The Battle of the Resurrection Ship." --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:03, 19 December 2005 (EST)
:::Yes, that's the first name that comes to mind, and at the least, it's the "fallback" one we're going to keep. I didn't know if we could use another one. --'''Remember''': Though, the battle page should not be created until after the episode has aired. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 23:10, 19 December 2005 (EST)
::::I just love the way that name for the battle sounds. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:40, 19 December 2005 (EST)

:Hot ''damn''. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:48, 19 December 2005 (EST)
::I second that, this show is HOT! --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 00:21, 20 December 2005 (EST)
::[http://vipertown.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=988 More sourceless episode 211/212 screencaps]

File talk:TheEnemysGateIsDown.jpg

2005-12-20T05:21:55Z

MASON:

Talk:Mercury class battlestar/Archive 1

2005-12-15T12:48:07Z

MASON:

==Class Name==

So was this actually mentioned in the episode, or is it officially heresay? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:01, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

RDM officially christens Pegasus a Mercury-class vessel in the blog for the episode. --[[User:Watcher|Watcher]] 04:29, 24 September 2005 (EDT)

==Specs==

Tomorow ill add to this for basic specs.
(ill have to borrow the [[Battlestar]] page for a template.
ill start one the template in notepad here however.
when i put it up, please be gentle :)

oh and ill add in a section for fan-fiction if you want..
--[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 12:24, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

:No fan fiction, please. Sourced comments from Zoic (the effects guys) would be useful, and if you think you can count the armament emplacements yourself, that would be fine (although I don't think that's possible given the shots we see in "Pegasus"), but unfounded guesses don't belong here. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:42, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

Ok.
and no i wasnt going to count the guns. and also i was just going to give a fair idea. and im glad i asked about fan fiction first ;)
cheers for your advice.
--[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 12:45, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

:erm, could you post places i can go for sources , ill look on [[zoic]] but i dont know any others, i dont even know where RDM's blog is. (-embarrased-). I am quite new here, though. --[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 13:16, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

::*[http://blog.scifi.com/battlestar/ Ron Moore's Blog]
::*[http://scifi.com/battlestar/bts/videoblog/ David Eicke's video blog]
::*[http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/ Episode Podcasts] --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:55, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

== My Part.. ==

What do you think?
When changing part of it, please post here what your changing and to what so i know, as i have well, bad memory for details after reading new ones lol.
but seriously, what do you think?
--[[User:Alex mcpherson|Alex mcpherson]] 13:59, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

:It would be nice to have an article here summarizing what is known, but I think it's lengthy and too heavy on speculation at the moment. I will try to slim it down to a more manageable size soon. I would point out that in my opinion, [[Battlestar]] is one of our worst articles, not not a good one to emulate here. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:55, 28 September 2005 (EDT)

== Age of class==
Would it be fair to say that the Mercury class is at least 12 years old, since Tyrol claimed to have served onboard battlestars such as the Atlantia, the Columbia and the Pegasus since he was 18? It could be that one or more of the ships he mentioned was still the Cylon War-1 battlestar, but considering that there were 120 battlestars by the time of Cylon War-2, and if Galactica was to be the last of her class, it'd seem likely that the Mercury class has been around for over a decade. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 20:16, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

:Not a safe assumption. There could easily have been intervening ship classes between the original style and mercury class, and we don't know which order Tyrol served on each of those ships. On top of that, we don't even know Tyrol's current age - since the series doesn't take place in real time, it can't be the same as his actor. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:39, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

==Armaments ==

The Pegasus appeared to have weapons similar to those of the Galactica's main batteries mounted along side the ship on the flight pods, in a fashion very much like the battlestars of TOS. You can see the mounts swinging into action as the Pegasus alert fighters were launching against Galactica. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 20:16, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

:My guess is that Pegasus' flight-pod armaments are larger versions of Galactica's point defense turrets, since Galactica also has them mounted along her flight pods. Until we see them fire anything it's not really worth speculating about. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:39, 15 October 2005 (EDT)

::I posted this to [[Talk:KEW]] as well, but you appear to be correct - the flight-pod guns on Pegasus are of the same external configuration as the main batteries of Galactica. I will be intruiged to see them in action. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:59, 18 October 2005 (EDT)
:::There are four on the forward edge of the ship and at least 6 more on each side of the forward section of the ship. These are visible on the hi-res screenshots (.tga format) [http://client.zoicstudios.com/HYPE_pr/BSG_VFXpro_Images/ here]. They are some huge but seriously sweet pictures. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:18, 14 December 2005 (EST)
::::And two more on the front of each flight pod. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:19, 14 December 2005 (EST)
:::::Great images, thanks for posting the link. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 15:19, 14 December 2005 (EST)

== High Res pics of Pegasus added ==

Added two high-res pics of Pegasus. The pics are very nice.

==Pegasus "Appearances"==

Pegasus was not in [[Resistance]], however, Chief Tyrol mentioned that he served aboard her. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 07:48, 15 December 2005 (EST)

Talk:Mercury class battlestar/Archive 1

2005-12-14T20:19:38Z

MASON:

Talk:Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)/Archive 1

2005-12-13T07:05:38Z

MASON: /* The Jealous God */

== Religeous Variance ==

Specifically, in the bit about funerals... It sounds a bit harsh to say that priests do the funerals regardless of the beliefs of the deceased. It makes it sound like they're Muslims getting Catholic funerals. I couldn't tell you the difference between a Methodist funeral and a Protestant funeral if my life depended on it. I think that this (apparently) unilateral handling of funerals is more indicative of the (mostly) unified religeon of the Colonies, rather than a callous behavior of some kind of oppressive theocracy. The only people who seem like they have a truely different religeous idea are Tigh, Adama and Billy, and they don't seem to strongly anti-religeon that they'd roll over at their religeous funeral. I didn't make an edit to reflect this, though, because this is rather subjective. --[[User:Day|Day]] 04:23, 10 September 2005 (EDT) (Post Script: I'm working on getting that picture. My Mac's having some technical issues.)

==Unknowns==

:''Rules applying to the priesthood may or may not be the same throughout the Twelve Colonies. It is possible that certain schools of the priesthood practice celibacy, but Chief [[Tyrol]] stated that his father was a priest and his mother an oracle, so it would not be adhered to by all denominations of the religion of the Twelve Colonies.''

:''This may vary considerably from one Colony to the next: [[The Twelve Colonies#Gemenon|Gemenons]] believe in the literal truth of the [[Sacred Scrolls]] and are quite fundamentalist, while [[The Twelve Colonies#Caprica|Capricans]] seem fairly secular in their treatment of Church-State relations.''

I really don't see the point in noting may-or-may-nots and it-is-not-knowns. The idea here is to state everything we do know - everything we don't state is logically unknown. I'm not opposed to informed speculation, but simply listing the areas we haven't heard about seems fruitless.

== The Chicken And Egg Origin of the Greek/Kobol Gods ==

Since the 13th Tribe populated Earth, all the while bringing their religion from Kobol, this suggests that the ''Greek gods'' are the offshoots to the Kobol gods, not the reverse. This fits with the other Olympian gods not (yet) mentioned in the Kobol religion, but present in the Olympian religion.

This suggestion creates several interesting possibilities for thought.

* There wasn't a human population already on Earth with its own religion. The religion of Kobol grew to form the Olympian gods.
* There ''was'' an existing human population, and the Colonial humans and native terrans merged genes and religion, which might have included other beings we know as the Olympian and quasi-Olympian gods.
* The Tribe somehow lost their technological base of information and went into a new dark age similar to what the Tribes experienced before, increasing their need for divine aid (and expansion of the Kobol religion to form the Olympian components). This also kept the 13th Tribe from returning to know the fate of their brothers in the other Tribes.
* The 13th Tribe landed in the Mediterreanean area of Earth (presuming their Earth is ''"our"'' Earth), in what we historically have called the "seat of human civilization."

The hologram in the [[Tomb of Athena]] suggests that the constellations and celestial bodies of Earth were either known already to the Kobol tribes and were programmed into the Tomb before they left, or a 13th Tribe member from Earth returned to do this. If neither are true, then there is real problem with how the Tomb received this information, and the need or ability for the [[Arrow of Apollo]] to be available (and noted in the Sacred Scrolls) as capable of showing the way to a place the Tribes had not yet visited (unless you count in the "all this has happened and will happen again" part of the Scrolls).

I edited the article with the point in mind as it seemed too strong to suggest otherwise. Thoughts on this or points against the notion? (This also keeps us from blowing brain cells on who created what.) [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:34, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

: See the "Three Exodus" portion of [[Sacred Scrolls]] for something that explains this. It was written by me, so perhaps I'm biased towards it being true, but if it is, then the pictures inside the Tomb of Athena ''do'' fall under the "All this has happened before..." clause. As does the dissemination of the Gods. However, I agree that it's probable that the 13th Tribe brought the Lords of Kobol with them to Earth. It's just that, after that, they also brought them ''back'' to Kobol so that they would be there to be brough to Earth again in the next cycle. I hope that's coherent. It's hard talking in circles like this. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:07, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

::I don't think its necessary or interesting to note that in this much detail - the History article covers the origin of the twelve colonies in substantially more detail. To that end, I'd prefer to revert your comments, if you're not terribly attatched. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:10, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:::Actually it's not that bad. I'm going to clarify it slightly, but it would probably be useful to keep it. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:16, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

== Zephyr ==

About where in the episode is this mentioned? Is it explicitly stated that the ''Zephyr'' is named after a God, or is it just mentioned? It is my understanding that a zephyr is a gust of wind and, thus, not an imp[robable name for a ship with that meaning. Unless it's explicit, I think this point is ambiguous at best. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:11, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:No, he's right. See [[Wikipedia:Zephyrus|Zephyrus]]. Very nice catch, Spence. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:14, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:: Woah! Zephyrus lived in a cave on ''Thrace''? That can't be accidental. It hadn't occured to me until I saw it, but I knew this. I played a pice a few years ago called the ''March of the Young Thracians'' or something. Anyway, I'm not sure about Zephyr, still. He wasn't one of the "main" Greek Gods, as it were, so I don't think we can make an assumption that he's a Lord of Kobol. They may have lesser gods like the Greeks did that just have never been mentioned, or it might be that some effects dude at Zoic named the ship that because it makes a good name for a ship, not realizing that it's also an allusion to a Greek god. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:22, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

:::A link to Kara Thrace's article already noted this, which is where I felt the Zephyr note was credible. Kara's name (as in a human aided by the "winds") and the link to Zephyrus couldn't be a coincidence--RDM had that one down. [[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:55, 4 October 2005 (EDT)

:::Right, but he ''is'' a god, the Colonials apparently know about him, and we don't have any knowlege on whether the colonials separate the Lords of Kobol from minor deities - so it's probably important to note, and there isn't really a better place for it. (FWIW, they did apparently distinguish between upper and lower demons). --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:29, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

== Liturgy ==
Does anyone know what language Elosha's funeral prayer is in at the end of the Mini-series? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:30, 3 October 2005 (EDT)

==Priesthood==

Spencerian added:

:Like denominations on Earth, it is possible that there are varying kinds of priests and customs that share elements of worship of the Lords of Kobol, with some subtle or significant differences. It is probable that, based on their devotion, a Genemon priest (in comparison to one, say, on Caprica) may have a more defined worship or celebration process, or may speak or pay more respects to one or a handful of Lords in preference over others, as Kara Thrace devoted prayer to her specific Lords. The contrast would be akin to the Catholic, Episopal, and Lutheran churches of real-world Earth.

As my fellow contributors know, I frown on plausible but baseless speculation. I don't think this is useful here. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:48, 1 November 2005 (EST)

:Removing. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:08, 3 November 2005 (EST)

==Zoic==

Where and in what capacity did Zoic "release" those names? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:28, 8 December 2005 (EST)

:You know this "reference" as well as I, and I would as well like to see the press release or web site reference where Zoic gave us this information. I know this is circular and that the Great Delete Key of the Citation Jihad may be quivering over that item, but I did note its non-canonical nature, but at the same time, considering its an official production company of the show, its also hard to prove them wrong--this information might be in the mysterious [[series bible]] for all we know. Maybe Joe would know old Ernestborg9's resource. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:26, 8 December 2005 (EST)

::Non-canonical is one thing, but uncited and non-canonical is past my limit. I mean, we could just start making random shit up and say that Zoic said it, and really, nobody would be there to catch us. We have to police ourselves on this. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:35, 8 December 2005 (EST)

:::If this is the case, we need to delete ALL the battlestar pages or rework them to remove those old Zoic references. I'm OK on this, but we have a lot of work to do. The Zoic thing here has been like the "weird uncle" in the family that you don't talk about or leave the daughters with, but let come to family gatherings anyway. Probably time to purge all references to Zoic's battlestars, maybe moving them to the Zoic page, and deleting the rest. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:15, 8 December 2005 (EST)

::::Well, the ''best'' thing to do would be to find the source of the quote, but I haven't had any luck. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 16:22, 8 December 2005 (EST)

==Atlantia==
How should we handle this reference? The Atlantia and Pacifica were presumably named after the Atlantic and Pacific oceans (in real life). The Atlantic ocean is named for Atlas, not Atlantia, but that's not necessarily implied by anything on-screen (and if it were really named after the ocean, it would probably be Atlantica.) --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 15:00, 8 December 2005 (EST)

:I'd stick to what we know, until we find something better. Atlas was a founder of Atlantis, so we can add this contradicting resource since Pegasus also has differing sources of origin. Greek myth is always full of contradictions anyway. Given that there's no Atlantic Ocean in the Colonies as far as we know, and the Lords tend to be Olympian, not Titan, gods, I'd go for the dryad origin. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:26, 8 December 2005 (EST)

==The Jealous God==
Ricimer said: ''Although it is tantalizing to claim that the Cylon God is the rebelious Lord of Kobol, I don't think #6 has ever claimed that they're the same one.''

:When Six says to Baltar, "Blasphemous, stupid lies. There have never been any other gods, only the One," it seems to me that she's referring to the one Elosha was just speaking about. You may be right that the inference is too tenuous for the article, though. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:56, 12 December 2005 (EST)

::I love this idea as well, very tantalyzing indeed, but perhaps it belongs in an analysis section to be added to the deleted scenes article. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 23:21, 12 December 2005 (EST)

::: You see although I'd ''like'' to equate the two, I don't think we can ''yet''; it's more for an "Analysis" section. It seems to me that Number Six in that scene was talking about ALL of the Gods that Elosha was talking about, the Jealous God AND the other 11 ''collectively''. It's not clear enough of a statement. I'm kind of secretly hoping that the cylons were taught the advanced technology needed to make humanoid Cylons from the Count Iblis equivalent of this series, which turns out to be the jealous Lord of Kobol; however, as Ron D. Moore has pointed out, that would kind of "gut" the religion of the Cylons: the Cylons are sentient beings in their own right, and all sentient beings have a claim to a soul and a concept of god once they're intelligent enough to grasp such concepts, and turning around and saying "well the whole idea of Cylons having a religion and thinking they have their own souls? Turns out they got duped by a god-like alien, which, although very powerful, ain't really a god, just more like Q from Star Trek or something", saying that would somehow seem to unfairly lessen the Cylons in my opinion. Maybe they can work the two concepts together tactfully (Cylons developed a concept of God BEFORE meeting Count Iblis, and Iblis is claiming to be the "real Cylon god"? , etc.). I don't know. But we don't have a lot to go on. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 01:43, 13 December 2005 (EST)

:::: I agree with almost everything you've written, and although I like to speculate that ideas, like Iblis, will be tied back into RDM's Cylon religion, I appreciate that this speculation can only exist in a limited form on the wiki. I don't entirely agree with you on the idea that the Cylons religious credibility would be compromised by a manifested God, for this cyclical pattern working itself out in the show reminds me very much of Isaac Asimov's [http://mit.edu/tylerc/www/twt/LQ1.htm The Last Question], which was satisfying in its vast simplicity.

Talk:Religion in the Twelve Colonies (RDM)/Archive 1

2005-12-13T04:21:35Z

MASON: /* The Jealous God */

Home, Part II

2005-12-12T07:04:19Z

MASON: punctuation

== Overview ==

''Adama leads a mission to Kobol to find President Roslin and her team of tomb-hunters, reconcile with his son, and reunite the divided fleet.''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==
* How did Adama and the others return from the map of Earth?
**What exactly was the map of Earth? Were they in the same room in the Tomb of Athena, and a 3D hologram was projected around them? Could it have been "all in their heads?" If so, would it even be perceived by the Cylons if they tried to view it?
***In Ron D. Moore's blog on the official Scifi.com site, October 14, 2005 entry, Moore says that the map was "probably a holographic projection of some sort". As for what was preventing the Cylons finding the map now that the Tomb was open, Moore said that they planned to have Cylon Centurions attack again at the Tomb, destroying the hologram projector, however it was decided not to do this because it didn't flow well dramatically.
****Presumably, the Colonials took the Arrow with them and without it the map won't turn on.
**Did they retrieve the Arrow of Apollo? Is the map still active? If the Cylons find the map in working order and can use it, could they use the strength of their information networks to find Earth before the colonials do?
*Just who or what is the copy of Number Six that Dr. Baltar sees all the time? It is firmly established that she is not some sort of computer chip in his head, but at the same time it is established that she can't possibly be just a hallucination by Baltar's guilt-ridden subconscious mind. Baltar himself has come to the realization that she is aware of actual facts (like that a Cylon copy pregnant with a hybrid child would be brought into the new brig) that his own subconscious couldn't possibly have known of. Six herself simply said that she's "an angel of God sent here to protect you [Gaius]". Is she truly some form of supernatural force (like Count [[Iblis]] in the Original Series)? Repeated medical scans showed no foreign objects in Baltar's mind.
**Could [[Gaius Baltar]] himself be a Cylon?
**Could the Cylons simply have developed an "organic chip" that would be indestinguishable from Baltar's normal brain tissue when scanned? (Cylons do seem to have mastered much of bio-mechanical engineering.) If so, does Six exist more like a transponder from a nearby Cylon source, where his body and mind can be monitored by what he sees and does, and responses and an image of Six sent to him. Obviously, from his virtual sex with Six, the connection also can control his senses and manupulate him like a marionette: Six's image could even assault Baltar ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).
**While the Cylons have made notable advancements in macro-bioenginering, they may still lack the required expertise in micro-bioengineering as it relates to cells, most notably demonstrated by their inability to create human/Cylon embryos at will ([[The Farm]]). If there is not a chip in Baltar's head, and he is not hallucinating, could this add more to the speculation that Baltar himself is a Humano-Cylon? (See [[Gaius Baltar]]'s page for arguments for and against this theory in the Speculation section.)
**How was Six capable of moving the chair in the Cylon holding cell? The chair was seen in both positions in "objective" shots (i.e. shots not from Baltar's POV that didn't include Six.)
***This may be a simple continuity error or it might suggest that Six can selectively appear as a physical manifestation, as hinted at by the appearance of [[Shelly Godfrey]].
***Baltar could have simply hallucinated that she moved it.
*Caprica-Boomer reminded Adama that he asked her Galactica counterpart's corpse "why" in [[Resistance]]. How did she know, without also knowing that Galactica Boomer had been killed? Or, was Boomer answering Adama's question of "why" from his attack: that humans have always abused Cylons as he had just done?
**Along that line, in the previous scene with [[Helo]], Caprica-Boomer mentions how she able to remember portions of her life (such as getting her wings), and not others (such as the assassination of [[William Adama]]). Is the communication between copies delayed or possibly selective, even in death?
*How can Adama use the Messier number M8 to refer to the Lagoon Nebula? The Messier catalog was created in 1774, on Earth. Possible answers:
**Language and nomenclature in the show is allegorical. Same reason the Colonials speak English, same reason Adama references the game of craps ("gotta roll a hard six"), same reason all the characters have Western names.
**Parallel development between Earth and the Twelve Colonies extends past attire, vehicles, medicine and government documents to include highly specific astronomical nomenclature.
**The show is set in the past, and Galactica arrives at Earth in time to influence 18th century astronomy.
**The show is set in the distant future, and the inhabitants of Kobol are actually descendents of an Earth-based population, some of whom returned after a vaguely-alluded-to disaster.
***This is supported by otherwise difficult to explain terms such as the Battlestar [[Columbia]], which appears to be named for the 15th century Earth explorer [[Wikipedia:Christopher Columbus|Christopher Columbus]].
***It is also supported by the setup of the map itself. Only someone who could have been on Earth originally could have properly plotted out the Zodiac constellations as seen from Earth. Unless of course the map was created by the Lords of Kobol, whoever or whatever they were.
*What are Tom Zarek's true motivations? We see in [[Home, Part I]] that he had a desire to become the next "Fleet Commander", like [[William Adama]], and willing to go along and eliminate anyone in his way, such as [[Lee Adama]]. Yet during the foray on Kobol, he reverses his position and applauds [[Laura Roslin]] when she re-assumes the presidency.
*Caprica-Sharon's claim that the Cylons know more about Colonial religion than the Colonials raises interesting questions. The Cylons had direct access to the Arrow of Apollo and had at least a token presence on Kobol. If all of them knew where the Tomb of Athena was as Valerii claims, why didn't they use this knowledge to locate Earth themselves?

== Analysis ==
*The map to Earth is believable and satisfying: no goofy special effects or flaming letters spelling out "Go This Way," just basic astronomy. It gives the Colonials both a "compass" and "landmarks" to follow.

*The compass is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagoon_Nebula Lagoon Nebula], an actual nebula visible from both Earth and the Colonies. Assuming the Colonials' astronomical instruments are advanced enough to permit them to see the nebula from a greater distance than we can, the Lagoon Nebula gives them a general direction to head toward. They also know that Earth is within realistic traveling distance, and they know that Earth will be in a sphere centered on the Lagoon Nebula. The twelve star groupings that appeared on the Colonies' original flags are actual constellations, the twelve signs of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac Zodiac] (Aquarius, Aries, Cancer, Capricorn, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Pisces, Sagittarius, Scorpio, Taurus and Virgo). These constellations will serve as landmarks: at the right planet, or within perhaps a few light-years of the nebula, these constellations will begin appear as they do on the Colonials' flags, assuming that they compensate for the natural drift of stars relative to Earth over time, as constellations are not static.

*If each of the Twelve Tribes had an associated symbol that the Thirteenth Tribe identified in their constellations, did the Thirteenth Tribe have one of their own? There is a thirteenth constellation in the Zodiac, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus Ophiuchus] the snake-bearer, which is not included in astrology.

:Ophiuchus may, however, be included in Greek mythology, as it is speculated that the snake-bearer represents Asclepius, the healer. The story of Asclepius is that he learned the secrets of life and death while watching one snake cure another snake he had wounded. Zeus struck Asclepius down out of fear that, under his care, the human race could become immortal.

*As the nebula and constellations in the map to Earth are recognizably ours, this would appear to indicate that the Tomb of Athena isn't a Cylon construct intended to lead the Colonials astray.

*Even so, it could take the Colonials years of searching within the vicinity of the Lagoon Nebula to find Earth.

* This may be the first episode where Adama and the President call each other by their first names, and not formally: "Bill" and "Laura." By the end of this episode, it appears that Adama realizes that, while Roslin did step over the line with her redirection of Starbuck, that there was a logical need to get information on Earth in any way possible. After his near-death experience, Adama seemed more resigned that they should all meet their doom or glory together rather than separate. Roslin reinforced the fleet's hope and gave it direction and purpose. Adama's rousing formal applause generation for Roslin at the end of the episode shows that Adama has firmly buried the hatchet between himself and the President.

* Commander Adama's sense of humor is returning: first in his talk with Billy about Roslin's comments on his future of being president someday ("Don't let it go to your head: [[Adar]] was a moron.") and in his glib comment on how well their luck was going so far, as their Raptor's descent subjected them to several G-forces and pressed both of them firmly, visibly and uncomfortably against the bulkheads.

* Helo is already experiencing repercussions regarding his relationship with Caprica-Boomer. First by Apollo, who voices his uneasiness about the pair to Starbuck and then later, indirectly, by Commander Adama himself who makes a point of leaving Helo outside the Tomb of Athena with Zarek, Boomer and Tyrol. Tyrol was given the order to guard them which indicates that the chief is the only one of the four left outside that Adama trusts.

== Notes ==
*Population is 47,855, a loss of three since Part I. Two of these were seen on-screen in the last episode (Elosha and a [[Laura Roslin faction]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_%28science_fiction%29 Redshirt]). The other may have happened offscreen in the same ambush.
** At episode's end, the count is now 47,853, with the death of [[Meier]] and one of [[Tom Zarek]]'s lackeys.
*This episode may have been titled "The Raid" in its early production.
*The fleet has been reunited, and Commander Adama has restored Laura Roslin to the Presidency.
*The Fleet now has a general idea of the direction they need to take to find Earth.
*Helo still loves Caprica-Sharon, although he knows she's a Cylon.
*Caprica-Sharon's hybrid child is a girl. She claims to just "know" this.
*The child that Six claims she and Baltar will have ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]) is actually Caprica-Sharon and Helo's biological daughter.
*Caprica-Sharon does not "remember" shooting Commander Adama, and she was unaware that Galactica-Sharon was killed by [[Cally]] (she thought she was just in the [[brig]]). Sharon thinks of herself as a "person" and not simply "a machine".
*Caprica-Sharon possesses the memories of Galactica-Sharon's two years aboard the ''Galactica''. She "remembers" how exilerating it was to get her wings and how it felt to be a member of the "family" that is the Galactica's crew, and she considers Chief [[Tyrol]] a dear friend of sorts, even though she admits she herself has never actually met him. Caprica-Sharon herself acknowledges that it's weird that she has deep-seated memories of things she fully knows she's never actually done.
*Caprica-Sharon apparently still believes that there is only "one true God" and that the Colonials "worship false idols".
*Caprica-Sharon flat out says that the Cylons know more about the Colonial religion than the Colonials themselves.
*According to Starbuck's observations, the Cylons have a plan for Caprica; "they're cleaning up the bodies, moving in the heavy machinery to repair the infrastructure..."
**Ron D. Moore has stated in interviews that this is actually a major plot point. Also, while the Cylon [[Farms]] (the hybrid experiments) are logically ''a'' plan for the Twelve Colonies, RDM said that it is not their ''only'' plan.
*Dr. Baltar has had a medical scan performed on his head, and it appears that there are no "foreign objects", like a metallic computer chip containing a copy of Number Six's mind, within it.
*Baltar has come to the realization that the copy of [[Number Six]] he sees cannot be just a hallucination, because she knows things his subconscious mind couldn't possibly know.
*This episode probably begins a few hours after [[Home, Part I]], although it could conceivably begin immediately after it.
*If the map displayed in the Tomb of Athena was from the perspective of an earth-bound viewer, the Lagoon Nebula should have been in Sagittarius, not Scorpio.
*Between Sharon's Heavy Raider that's been returned to the fleet in this episode and the Heavy Raider from [[Scattered]] and [[Valley of Darkness]], the fleet may have up to two captured Heavy Raiders by this point. However, the one that crashed into the starboard flight pod may have been too damaged to be salvagable.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''On "Earth":''
*:Cmdr. Adama: I thought we were in the Tomb of Athena.
*:Starbuck: I think that was just the lobby.

== Official Statements ==

In the podcast for this program, Moore and Eick commented on their attempt to have a more colorful turn of phrase in the dialogue on the Raptor from Chief Tyrol and Adama. Tyrol's original line, in his frustration on reading a map was, "Topography's for pussies, anyway." Likewise, Adama's comment about President Adar to Bill was originally "...Adar was a prick." Both lines were changed at the behest of the studio's standards and practices unit.

== Statistics ==

=== Guest Stars ===
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1489668/ Leah Cairns] as [[Racetrack]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar] as [[Meier]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as [[Doctor Cottle]]

=== Writing & Direction ===

=== Production Notes ===

*Series 2 (2005 / 2006)
*Production Number: 2.07
*Airdate Order: 7 (of 20)

=== First Run Air Dates & Releases ===

*UK Airdate:
*US Airdate: August 26th, 2005
*DVD Release:

{{Template:Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)|Home, Part II]]
[[Category: A to Z|Home, Part II]]

Home, Part II

2005-12-12T05:29:22Z

MASON: typos, punctuation

== Overview ==

''Adama leads a mission to Kobol to find President Roslin and her team of tomb-hunters, reconcile with his son, and reunite the divided fleet.''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==
* How did Adama and the others return from the map of Earth?
**What exactly was the map of Earth? Were they in the same room in the Tomb of Athena, and a 3D hologram was projected around them? Could it have been "all in their heads?" If so, would it even be perceived by the Cylons if they tried to view it?
***In Ron D. Moore's blog on the official Scifi.com site, October 14, 2005 entry, Moore says that the map was "probably a holographic projection of some sort". As for what was preventing the Cylons finding the map now that the Tomb was open, Moore said that they planned to have Cylon Centurions attack again at the Tomb, destroying the hologram projector, however it was decided not to do this because it didn't flow well dramatically.
****Presumably, the Colonials took the Arrow with them and without it the map won't turn on.
**Did they retrieve the Arrow of Apollo? Is the map still active? If the Cylons find the map in working order and can use it, could they use the strength of their information networks to find Earth before the colonials do?
*Just who or what is the copy of Number Six that Dr. Baltar sees all the time? It is firmly established that she is not some sort of computer chip in his head, but at the same time it is established that she can't possibly be just a hallucination by Baltar's guilt-ridden subconscious mind. Baltar himself has come to the realization that she is aware of actual facts (like that a Cylon copy pregnant with a hybrid child would be brought into the new brig) that his own subconscious couldn't possibly have known of. Six herself simply said that she's "an angel of God sent here to protect you [Gaius]". Is she truly some form of supernatural force (like Count [[Iblis]] in the Original Series)? Repeated medical scans showed no foreign objects in Baltar's mind.
**Could [[Gaius Baltar]] himself be a Cylon?
**Could the Cylons simply have developed an "organic chip" that would be indestinguishable from Baltar's normal brain tissue when scanned? (Cylons do seem to have mastered much of bio-mechanical engineering.) If so, does Six exist more like a transponder from a nearby Cylon source, where his body and mind can be monitored by what he sees and does, and responses and an image of Six sent to him. Obviously, from his virtual sex with Six, the connection also can control his senses and manupulate him like a marionette: Six's image could even assault Baltar ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).
**While the Cylons have made notable advancements in macro-bioenginering, they may still lack the required expertise in micro-bioengineering as it relates to cells, most notably demonstrated by their inability to create human/Cylon embryos at will ([[The Farm]]). If there is not a chip in Baltar's head, and he is not hallucinating, could this add more to the speculation that Baltar himself is a Humano-Cylon? (See [[Gaius Baltar]]'s page for arguments for and against this theory in the Speculation section.)
**How was Six capable of moving the chair in the Cylon holding cell? The chair was seen in both positions in "objective" shots (i.e. shots not from Baltar's POV that didn't include Six.)
***This may be a simple continuity error or it might suggest that Six can selectively appear as a physical manifestation, as hinted at by the appearance of [[Shelly Godfrey]].
***Baltar could have simply hallucinated that she moved it.
*Caprica-Boomer reminded Adama that he asked her Galactica counterpart's corpse "why" in [[Resistance]]. How did she know, without also knowing that Galactica Boomer had been killed? Or, was Boomer answering Adama's question of "why" from his attack: that humans have always abused Cylons as he had just done?
**Along that line, in the previous scene with [[Helo]], Caprica-Boomer mentions how she able to remember portions of her life (such as getting her wings), and not others (such as the assassination of [[William Adama]]). Is the communication between copies delayed or possibly selective, even in death?
*How can Adama use the Messier number M8 to refer to the Lagoon Nebula? The Messier catalog was created in 1774, on Earth. Possible answers:
**Language and nomenclature in the show is allegorical. Same reason the Colonials speak English, same reason Adama references the game of craps ("gotta roll a hard six"), same reason all the characters have Western names.
**Parallel development between Earth and the Twelve Colonies extends past attire, vehicles, medicine and government documents to include highly specific astronomical nomenclature.
**The show is set in the past, and Galactica arrives at Earth in time to influence 18th century astronomy.
**The show is set in the distant future, and the inhabitants of Kobol are actually descendents of an Earth-based population, some of whom returned after a vaguely-alluded-to disaster.
***This is supported by otherwise difficult to explain terms such as the Battlestar [[Columbia]], which appears to be named for the 15th century Earth explorer [[Wikipedia:Christopher Columbus|Christopher Columbus]].
***It is also supported by the setup of the map itself. Only someone who could have been on Earth originally could have properly plotted out the Zodiac constellations as seen from Earth. Unless of course the map was created by the Lords of Kobol, whoever or whatever they were.
*What are Tom Zarek's true motivations? We see in [[Home, Part I]] that he had a desire to become the next "Fleet Commander", like [[William Adama]], and willing to go along and eliminate anyone in his way, such as [[Lee Adama]]. Yet during the foray on Kobol, he reverses his position and applauds [[Laura Roslin]] when she re-assumes the presidency.
*Caprica-Sharon's claim that the Cylons know more about Colonial religion than the Colonials raises interesting questions. The Cylons had direct access to the Arrow of Apollo and had at least a token presence on Kobol. If all of them knew where the Tomb of Athena was as Valerii claims, why didn't they use this knowledge to locate Earth themselves?

== Analysis ==
*The map to Earth is believable and satisfying: no goofy special effects or flaming letters spelling out "Go This Way," just basic astronomy. It gives the Colonials both a "compass" and "landmarks" to follow.

*The compass is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagoon_Nebula Lagoon Nebula], an actual nebula visible from both Earth and the Colonies. Assuming the Colonials' astronomical instruments are advanced enough to permit them to see the nebula from a greater distance than we can, the Lagoon Nebula gives them a general direction to head toward. They also know that Earth is within realistic traveling distance, and they know that Earth will be in a sphere centered on the Lagoon Nebula. The twelve star groupings that appeared on the Colonies' original flags are actual constellations, the twelve signs of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac Zodiac] (Aquarius, Aries, Cancer, Capricorn, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Pisces, Sagittarius, Scorpio, Taurus and Virgo). These constellations will serve as landmarks: at the right planet, or within perhaps a few light-years of the nebula, these constellations will begin appear as they do on the Colonials' flags, assuming that they compensate for the natural drift of stars relative to Earth over time, as constellations are not static.

*If each of the Twelve Tribes had an associated symbol that the Thirteenth Tribe identified in their constellations, did the Thirteenth Tribe have one of their own? There is a thirteenth constellation in the Zodiac, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus Ophiuchus] the snake-bearer, which is not included in astrology.

:Ophiuchus may, however, be included in Greek mythology, as it is speculated that the snake bearer represents Asclepius, the healer. The story of Asclepius is that he learned the secrets of life and death while watching one snake cure another snake he had wounded. Zeus struck Asclepius down out of fear that under his care, the human race could become immortal.

*As the nebula and constellations in the map to Earth are recognizably ours, this would appear to indicate that the Tomb of Athena isn't a Cylon construct intended to lead the Colonials astray.

*Even so, it could take the Colonials years of searching within the vicinity of the Lagoon Nebula to find Earth.

* This may be the first episode where Adama and the President call each other by their first names, and not formally: "Bill" and "Laura." By the end of this episode, it appears that Adama realizes that, while Roslin did step over the line with her redirection of Starbuck, that there was a logical need to get information on Earth in any way possible. After his near-death experience, Adama seemed more resigned that they should all meet their doom or glory together rather than separate. Roslin reinforced the fleet's hope and gave it direction and purpose. Adama's rousing formal applause generation for Roslin at the end of the episode shows that Adama has firmly buried the hatchet between himself and the President.

* Commander Adama's sense of humor is returning: first in his talk with Billy about Roslin's comments on his future of being president someday ("Don't let it go to your head: [[Adar]] was a moron.") and in his glib comment on how well their luck was going so far, as their Raptor's descent subjected them to several G-forces and pressed both of them firmly, visibly and uncomfortably against the bulkheads.

* Helo is already experiencing repercussions regarding his relationship with Caprica-Boomer. First by Apollo, who voices his uneasiness about the pair to Starbuck and then later, indirectly, by Commander Adama himself who makes a point of leaving Helo outside the Tomb of Athena with Zarek, Boomer and Tyrol. Tyrol was given the order to guard them which indicates that the chief is the only one of the four left outside that Adama trusts.

== Notes ==
*Population is 47,855, a loss of three since Part I. Two of these were seen on-screen in the last episode (Elosha and a [[Laura Roslin faction]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_%28science_fiction%29 Redshirt]). The other may have happened offscreen in the same ambush.
** At episode's end, the count is now 47,853, with the death of [[Meier]] and one of [[Tom Zarek]]'s lackeys.
*This episode may have been titled "The Raid" in its early production.
*The fleet has been reunited, and Commander Adama has restored Laura Roslin to the Presidency.
*The Fleet now has a general idea of the direction they need to take to find Earth.
*Helo still loves Caprica-Sharon, although he knows she's a Cylon.
*Caprica-Sharon's hybrid child is a girl. She claims to just "know" this.
*The child that Six claims she and Baltar will have ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]) is actually Caprica-Sharon and Helo's biological daughter.
*Caprica-Sharon does not "remember" shooting Commander Adama, and she was unaware that Galactica-Sharon was killed by [[Cally]] (she thought she was just in the [[brig]]). Sharon thinks of herself as a "person" and not simply "a machine".
*Caprica-Sharon possesses the memories of Galactica-Sharon's two years aboard the ''Galactica''. She "remembers" how exilerating it was to get her wings and how it felt to be a member of the "family" that is the Galactica's crew, and she considers Chief [[Tyrol]] a dear friend of sorts, even though she admits she herself has never actually met him. Caprica-Sharon herself acknowledges that it's weird that she has deep-seated memories of things she fully knows she's never actually done.
*Caprica-Sharon apparently still believes that there is only "one true God" and that the Colonials "worship false idols".
*Caprica-Sharon flat out says that the Cylons know more about the Colonial religion than the Colonials themselves.
*According to Starbuck's observations, the Cylons have a plan for Caprica; "they're cleaning up the bodies, moving in the heavy machinery to repair the infrastructure..."
**Ron D. Moore has stated in interviews that this is actually a major plot point. Also, while the Cylon [[Farms]] (the hybrid experiments) are logically ''a'' plan for the Twelve Colonies, RDM said that it is not their ''only'' plan.
*Dr. Baltar has had a medical scan performed on his head, and it appears that there are no "foreign objects", like a metallic computer chip containing a copy of Number Six's mind, within it.
*Baltar has come to the realization that the copy of [[Number Six]] he sees cannot be just a hallucination, because she knows things his subconscious mind couldn't possibly know.
*This episode probably begins a few hours after [[Home, Part I]], although it could conceivably begin immediately after it.
*If the map displayed in the Tomb of Athena was from the perspective of an earth-bound viewer, the Lagoon Nebula should have been in Sagittarius, not Scorpio.
*Between Sharon's Heavy Raider that's been returned to the fleet in this episode and the Heavy Raider from [[Scattered]] and [[Valley of Darkness]], the fleet may have up to two captured Heavy Raiders by this point. However, the one that crashed into the starboard flight pod may have been too damaged to be salvagable.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''On "Earth":''
*:Cmdr. Adama: I thought we were in the Tomb of Athena.
*:Starbuck: I think that was just the lobby.

== Official Statements ==

In the podcast for this program, Moore and Eick commented on their attempt to have a more colorful turn of phrase in the dialogue on the Raptor from Chief Tyrol and Adama. Tyrol's original line, in his frustration on reading a map was, "Topography's for pussies, anyway." Likewise, Adama's comment about President Adar to Bill was originally "...Adar was a prick." Both lines were changed at the behest of the studio's standards and practices unit.

== Statistics ==

=== Guest Stars ===
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1489668/ Leah Cairns] as [[Racetrack]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar] as [[Meier]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as [[Doctor Cottle]]

=== Writing & Direction ===

=== Production Notes ===

*Series 2 (2005 / 2006)
*Production Number: 2.07
*Airdate Order: 7 (of 20)

=== First Run Air Dates & Releases ===

*UK Airdate:
*US Airdate: August 26th, 2005
*DVD Release:

{{Template:Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)|Home, Part II]]
[[Category: A to Z|Home, Part II]]

Home, Part II

2005-12-12T05:20:26Z

MASON: indentation

== Overview ==

''Adama leads a mission to Kobol to find President Roslin and her team of tomb-hunters, reconcile with his son, and reunite the divided fleet.''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==
* How did Adama and the others return from the map of Earth?
**What exactly was the map of Earth? Were they in the same room in the Tomb of Athena, and a 3D hologram was projected around them? Could it have been "all in their heads?" If so, would it even be perceived by the Cylons if they tried to view it?
***In Ron D. Moore's blog on the official Scifi.com site, October 14, 2005 entry, Moore says that the map was "probably a holographic projection of some sort". As for what was preventing the Cylons finding the map now that the Tomb was open, Moore said that they planned to have Cylon Centurions attack again at the Tomb, destroying the hologram projector, however it was decided not to do this because it didn't flow well dramatically.
****Presumably, the Colonials took the Arrow with them and without it the map won't turn on.
**Did they retrieve the Arrow of Apollo? Is the map still active? If the Cylons find the map in working order and can use it, could they use the strength of their information networks to find Earth before the colonials do?
*Just who or what is the copy of Number Six that Dr. Baltar sees all the time? It is firmly established that she is not some sort of computer chip in his head, but at the same time it is established that she can't possibly be just a hallucination by Baltar's guilt-ridden subconscious mind. Baltar himself has come to the realization that she is aware of actual facts (like that a Cylon copy pregnant with a hybrid child would be brought into the new brig) that his own subconscious couldn't possibly have known of. Six herself simply said that she's "an angel of God sent here to protect you [Gaius]". Is she truly some form of supernatural force (like Count [[Iblis]] in the Original Series)? Repeated medical scans showed no foreign objects in Baltar's mind.
**Could [[Gaius Baltar]] himself be a Cylon?
**Could the Cylons simply have developed an "organic chip" that would be indestinguishable from Baltar's normal brain tissue when scanned? (Cylons do seem to have mastered much of bio-mechanical engineering.) If so, does Six exist more like a transponder from a nearby Cylon source, where his body and mind can be monitored by what he sees and does, and responses and an image of Six sent to him. Obviously, from his virtual sex with Six, the connection also can control his senses and manupulate him like a marionette: Six's image could even assault Baltar ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).
**While the Cylons have made notable advancements in macro-bioenginering, they may still lack the required expertise in micro-bioengineering as it relates to cells, most notably demonstrated by their inability to create human/Cylon embryos at will ([[The Farm]]). If there is not a chip in Baltar's head, and he is not hallucinating, could this add more to the speculation that Baltar himself is a Humano-Cylon? (See [[Gaius Baltar]]'s page for arguments for and against this theory in the Speculation section.)
**How was Six capable of moving the chair in the Cylon holding cell? The chair was seen in both positions in "objective" shots (i.e. shots not from Baltar's POV that didn't include Six.)
***This may be a simple continuity error or it might suggest that Six can selectively appear as a physical manifestation, as hinted at by the appearance of [[Shelly Godfrey]].
***Baltar could have simply hallucinated that she moved it.
*Caprica-Boomer reminded Adama that he asked her Galactica counterpart's corpse "why" in [[Resistance]]. How did she know, without also knowing that Galactica Boomer had been killed? Or, was Boomer answering Adama's question of "why" from his attack: that humans have always abused Cylons as he had just done?
**Along that line, in the previous scene with [[Helo]], Caprica-Boomer mentions how she able to remember portions of her life (such as getting her wings), and not others (such as the assassination of [[William Adama]]). Is the communication between copies delayed or possibly selective, even in death?
*How can Adama use the Messier number M8 to refer to the Lagoon Nebula? The Messier catalog was created in 1774, on Earth. Possible answers:
**Language and nomenclature in the show is allegorical. Same reason the Colonials speak English, same reason Adama references the game of craps ("gotta roll a hard six"), same reason all the characters have Western names.
**Parallel development between Earth and the Twelve Colonies extends past attire, vehicles, medicine and government documents to include highly specific astronomical nomenclature.
**The show is set in the past, and Galactica arrives at Earth in time to influence 18th century astronomy.
**The show is set in the distant future, and the inhabitants of Kobol are actually descendents of an Earth-based population, some of whom returned after a vaguely-alluded-to disaster.
***This is supported by otherwise difficult to explain terms such as the Battlestar [[Columbia]], which appears to be named for the 15th century Earth explorer [[Wikipedia:Christopher Columbus|Christopher Columbus]].
***It is also supported by the setup of the map itself. Only someone who could have been on Earth originally could have properly plotted out the Zodiac constellations as seen from Earth. Unless of course the map was created by the Lords of Kobol, whoever or whatever they were.
*What are Tom Zarek's true motivations? We see in [[Home, Part I]] that he had a desire to become the next "Fleet Commander", like [[William Adama]], and willing to go along and eliminate anyone in his way, such as [[Lee Adama]]. Yet during the foray on Kobol, he reverses his position and applauds [[Laura Roslin]] when she re-assumes the presidency.
*Caprica-Sharon's claim that the Cylons know more about Colonial religion than the Colonials raises interesting questions. The Cylons had direct access to the Arrow of Apollo and had at least a token presence on Kobol. If all of them knew where the Tomb of Athena was as Valerii claims, why didn't they use this knowledge to locate Earth themselves?

== Analysis ==
*The map to Earth is believable and satisfying: no goofy special effects or flaming letters spelling out "Go This Way," just basic astronomy. It gives the Colonials both a "compass" and "landmarks" to follow.

*The compass is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagoon_Nebula Lagoon Nebula], an actual nebula visible from both Earth and the Colonies. Assuming the Colonials' astronomical instruments are advanced enough to permit them to see the nebula from a greater distance than we can, the Lagoon Nebula gives them a general direction to head toward. They also know that Earth is within realistic traveling distance, and they know that Earth will be in a sphere centered on the Lagoon Nebula. The twelve star groupings that appeared on the Colonies' original flags are actual constellations, the twelve signs of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac Zodiac] (Aquarius, Aries, Cancer, Capricorn, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Pisces, Sagittarius, Scorpio, Taurus and Virgo). These constellations will serve as landmarks: at the right planet, or within perhaps a few light-years of the nebula, these constellations will begin appear as they do on the Colonials' flags, assuming that they compensate for the natural drift of stars relative to Earth over time, as constellations are not static.

*If each of the Twelve Tribes had an associated symbol that the Thirteenth Tribe identified in their constellations, did the Thirteenth Tribe have one of their own? There is a thirteenth constellation in the Zodiac, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus Ophiuchus] the snake-bearer, which is not included in astrology.

:Ophiuchus may, however, be included in Greek mythology, as it is speculated that the snake bearer represents Asclepius, the healer. The story of Asclepius is that, he leaned the secrets of life and death while watching one snake cure another he had wounded. Zeus struck down Asclepius out of fear that under his care, the human race could become immortal.

*As the nebula and constellations in the map to Earth are recognizably ours, this would appear to indicate that the Tomb of Athena isn't a Cylon construct intended to lead the Colonials astray.

*Even so, it could take the Colonials years of searching within the vicinity of the Lagoon Nebula to find Earth.

* This may be the first episode where Adama and the President call each other by their first names, and not formally: "Bill" and "Laura." By the end of this episode, it appears that Adama realizes that, while Roslin did step over the line with her redirection of Starbuck, that there was a logical need to get information on Earth in any way possible. After his near-death experience, Adama seemed more resigned that they should all meet their doom or glory together rather than separate. Roslin reinforced the fleet's hope and gave it direction and purpose. Adama's rousing formal applause generation for Roslin at the end of the episode shows that Adama has firmly buried the hatchet between himself and the President.

* Commander Adama's sense of humor is returning: first in his talk with Billy about Roslin's comments on his future of being president someday ("Don't let it go to your head: [[Adar]] was a moron.") and in his glib comment on how well their luck was going so far, as their Raptor's descent subjected them to several G-forces and pressed both of them firmly, visibly and uncomfortably against the bulkheads.

* Helo is already experiencing repercussions regarding his relationship with Caprica-Boomer. First by Apollo, who voices his uneasiness about the pair to Starbuck and then later, indirectly, by Commander Adama himself who makes a point of leaving Helo outside the Tomb of Athena with Zarek, Boomer and Tyrol. Tyrol was given the order to guard them which indicates that the chief is the only one of the four left outside that Adama trusts.

== Notes ==
*Population is 47,855, a loss of three since Part I. Two of these were seen on-screen in the last episode (Elosha and a [[Laura Roslin faction]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_%28science_fiction%29 Redshirt]). The other may have happened offscreen in the same ambush.
** At episode's end, the count is now 47,853, with the death of [[Meier]] and one of [[Tom Zarek]]'s lackeys.
*This episode may have been titled "The Raid" in its early production.
*The fleet has been reunited, and Commander Adama has restored Laura Roslin to the Presidency.
*The Fleet now has a general idea of the direction they need to take to find Earth.
*Helo still loves Caprica-Sharon, although he knows she's a Cylon.
*Caprica-Sharon's hybrid child is a girl. She claims to just "know" this.
*The child that Six claims she and Baltar will have ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]) is actually Caprica-Sharon and Helo's biological daughter.
*Caprica-Sharon does not "remember" shooting Commander Adama, and she was unaware that Galactica-Sharon was killed by [[Cally]] (she thought she was just in the [[brig]]). Sharon thinks of herself as a "person" and not simply "a machine".
*Caprica-Sharon possesses the memories of Galactica-Sharon's two years aboard the ''Galactica''. She "remembers" how exilerating it was to get her wings and how it felt to be a member of the "family" that is the Galactica's crew, and she considers Chief [[Tyrol]] a dear friend of sorts, even though she admits she herself has never actually met him. Caprica-Sharon herself acknowledges that it's weird that she has deep-seated memories of things she fully knows she's never actually done.
*Caprica-Sharon apparently still believes that there is only "one true God" and that the Colonials "worship false idols".
*Caprica-Sharon flat out says that the Cylons know more about the Colonial religion than the Colonials themselves.
*According to Starbuck's observations, the Cylons have a plan for Caprica; "they're cleaning up the bodies, moving in the heavy machinery to repair the infrastructure..."
**Ron D. Moore has stated in interviews that this is actually a major plot point. Also, while the Cylon [[Farms]] (the hybrid experiments) are logically ''a'' plan for the Twelve Colonies, RDM said that it is not their ''only'' plan.
*Dr. Baltar has had a medical scan performed on his head, and it appears that there are no "foreign objects", like a metallic computer chip containing a copy of Number Six's mind, within it.
*Baltar has come to the realization that the copy of [[Number Six]] he sees cannot be just a hallucination, because she knows things his subconscious mind couldn't possibly know.
*This episode probably begins a few hours after [[Home, Part I]], although it could conceivably begin immediately after it.
*If the map displayed in the Tomb of Athena was from the perspective of an earth-bound viewer, the Lagoon Nebula should have been in Sagittarius, not Scorpio.
*Between Sharon's Heavy Raider that's been returned to the fleet in this episode and the Heavy Raider from [[Scattered]] and [[Valley of Darkness]], the fleet may have up to two captured Heavy Raiders by this point. However, the one that crashed into the starboard flight pod may have been too damaged to be salvagable.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''On "Earth":''
*:Cmdr. Adama: I thought we were in the Tomb of Athena.
*:Starbuck: I think that was just the lobby.

== Official Statements ==

In the podcast for this program, Moore and Eick commented on their attempt to have a more colorful turn of phrase in the dialogue on the Raptor from Chief Tyrol and Adama. Tyrol's original line, in his frustration on reading a map was, "Topography's for pussies, anyway." Likewise, Adama's comment about President Adar to Bill was originally "...Adar was a prick." Both lines were changed at the behest of the studio's standards and practices unit.

== Statistics ==

=== Guest Stars ===
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1489668/ Leah Cairns] as [[Racetrack]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar] as [[Meier]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as [[Doctor Cottle]]

=== Writing & Direction ===

=== Production Notes ===

*Series 2 (2005 / 2006)
*Production Number: 2.07
*Airdate Order: 7 (of 20)

=== First Run Air Dates & Releases ===

*UK Airdate:
*US Airdate: August 26th, 2005
*DVD Release:

{{Template:Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)|Home, Part II]]
[[Category: A to Z|Home, Part II]]

Home, Part II

2005-12-12T05:19:03Z

MASON: Ophiuchus - relevance to Greek mythology

== Overview ==

''Adama leads a mission to Kobol to find President Roslin and her team of tomb-hunters, reconcile with his son, and reunite the divided fleet.''

== Summary ==

== Questions ==
* How did Adama and the others return from the map of Earth?
**What exactly was the map of Earth? Were they in the same room in the Tomb of Athena, and a 3D hologram was projected around them? Could it have been "all in their heads?" If so, would it even be perceived by the Cylons if they tried to view it?
***In Ron D. Moore's blog on the official Scifi.com site, October 14, 2005 entry, Moore says that the map was "probably a holographic projection of some sort". As for what was preventing the Cylons finding the map now that the Tomb was open, Moore said that they planned to have Cylon Centurions attack again at the Tomb, destroying the hologram projector, however it was decided not to do this because it didn't flow well dramatically.
****Presumably, the Colonials took the Arrow with them and without it the map won't turn on.
**Did they retrieve the Arrow of Apollo? Is the map still active? If the Cylons find the map in working order and can use it, could they use the strength of their information networks to find Earth before the colonials do?
*Just who or what is the copy of Number Six that Dr. Baltar sees all the time? It is firmly established that she is not some sort of computer chip in his head, but at the same time it is established that she can't possibly be just a hallucination by Baltar's guilt-ridden subconscious mind. Baltar himself has come to the realization that she is aware of actual facts (like that a Cylon copy pregnant with a hybrid child would be brought into the new brig) that his own subconscious couldn't possibly have known of. Six herself simply said that she's "an angel of God sent here to protect you [Gaius]". Is she truly some form of supernatural force (like Count [[Iblis]] in the Original Series)? Repeated medical scans showed no foreign objects in Baltar's mind.
**Could [[Gaius Baltar]] himself be a Cylon?
**Could the Cylons simply have developed an "organic chip" that would be indestinguishable from Baltar's normal brain tissue when scanned? (Cylons do seem to have mastered much of bio-mechanical engineering.) If so, does Six exist more like a transponder from a nearby Cylon source, where his body and mind can be monitored by what he sees and does, and responses and an image of Six sent to him. Obviously, from his virtual sex with Six, the connection also can control his senses and manupulate him like a marionette: Six's image could even assault Baltar ([[Six Degrees of Separation]]).
**While the Cylons have made notable advancements in macro-bioenginering, they may still lack the required expertise in micro-bioengineering as it relates to cells, most notably demonstrated by their inability to create human/Cylon embryos at will ([[The Farm]]). If there is not a chip in Baltar's head, and he is not hallucinating, could this add more to the speculation that Baltar himself is a Humano-Cylon? (See [[Gaius Baltar]]'s page for arguments for and against this theory in the Speculation section.)
**How was Six capable of moving the chair in the Cylon holding cell? The chair was seen in both positions in "objective" shots (i.e. shots not from Baltar's POV that didn't include Six.)
***This may be a simple continuity error or it might suggest that Six can selectively appear as a physical manifestation, as hinted at by the appearance of [[Shelly Godfrey]].
***Baltar could have simply hallucinated that she moved it.
*Caprica-Boomer reminded Adama that he asked her Galactica counterpart's corpse "why" in [[Resistance]]. How did she know, without also knowing that Galactica Boomer had been killed? Or, was Boomer answering Adama's question of "why" from his attack: that humans have always abused Cylons as he had just done?
**Along that line, in the previous scene with [[Helo]], Caprica-Boomer mentions how she able to remember portions of her life (such as getting her wings), and not others (such as the assassination of [[William Adama]]). Is the communication between copies delayed or possibly selective, even in death?
*How can Adama use the Messier number M8 to refer to the Lagoon Nebula? The Messier catalog was created in 1774, on Earth. Possible answers:
**Language and nomenclature in the show is allegorical. Same reason the Colonials speak English, same reason Adama references the game of craps ("gotta roll a hard six"), same reason all the characters have Western names.
**Parallel development between Earth and the Twelve Colonies extends past attire, vehicles, medicine and government documents to include highly specific astronomical nomenclature.
**The show is set in the past, and Galactica arrives at Earth in time to influence 18th century astronomy.
**The show is set in the distant future, and the inhabitants of Kobol are actually descendents of an Earth-based population, some of whom returned after a vaguely-alluded-to disaster.
***This is supported by otherwise difficult to explain terms such as the Battlestar [[Columbia]], which appears to be named for the 15th century Earth explorer [[Wikipedia:Christopher Columbus|Christopher Columbus]].
***It is also supported by the setup of the map itself. Only someone who could have been on Earth originally could have properly plotted out the Zodiac constellations as seen from Earth. Unless of course the map was created by the Lords of Kobol, whoever or whatever they were.
*What are Tom Zarek's true motivations? We see in [[Home, Part I]] that he had a desire to become the next "Fleet Commander", like [[William Adama]], and willing to go along and eliminate anyone in his way, such as [[Lee Adama]]. Yet during the foray on Kobol, he reverses his position and applauds [[Laura Roslin]] when she re-assumes the presidency.
*Caprica-Sharon's claim that the Cylons know more about Colonial religion than the Colonials raises interesting questions. The Cylons had direct access to the Arrow of Apollo and had at least a token presence on Kobol. If all of them knew where the Tomb of Athena was as Valerii claims, why didn't they use this knowledge to locate Earth themselves?

== Analysis ==
*The map to Earth is believable and satisfying: no goofy special effects or flaming letters spelling out "Go This Way," just basic astronomy. It gives the Colonials both a "compass" and "landmarks" to follow.

*The compass is the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagoon_Nebula Lagoon Nebula], an actual nebula visible from both Earth and the Colonies. Assuming the Colonials' astronomical instruments are advanced enough to permit them to see the nebula from a greater distance than we can, the Lagoon Nebula gives them a general direction to head toward. They also know that Earth is within realistic traveling distance, and they know that Earth will be in a sphere centered on the Lagoon Nebula. The twelve star groupings that appeared on the Colonies' original flags are actual constellations, the twelve signs of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zodiac Zodiac] (Aquarius, Aries, Cancer, Capricorn, Gemini, Leo, Libra, Pisces, Sagittarius, Scorpio, Taurus and Virgo). These constellations will serve as landmarks: at the right planet, or within perhaps a few light-years of the nebula, these constellations will begin appear as they do on the Colonials' flags, assuming that they compensate for the natural drift of stars relative to Earth over time, as constellations are not static.

*If each of the Twelve Tribes had an associated symbol that the Thirteenth Tribe identified in their constellations, did the Thirteenth Tribe have one of their own? There is a thirteenth constellation in the Zodiac, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus Ophiuchus] the snake-bearer, which is not included in astrology.

Ophiuchus may, however, be included in Greek mythology, as it is speculated that the snake bearer represents Asclepius, the healer. The story of Asclepius is that, he leaned the secrets of life and death while watching one snake cure another he had wounded. Zeus struck down Asclepius out of fear that under his care, the human race could become immortal.

*As the nebula and constellations in the map to Earth are recognizably ours, this would appear to indicate that the Tomb of Athena isn't a Cylon construct intended to lead the Colonials astray.

*Even so, it could take the Colonials years of searching within the vicinity of the Lagoon Nebula to find Earth.

* This may be the first episode where Adama and the President call each other by their first names, and not formally: "Bill" and "Laura." By the end of this episode, it appears that Adama realizes that, while Roslin did step over the line with her redirection of Starbuck, that there was a logical need to get information on Earth in any way possible. After his near-death experience, Adama seemed more resigned that they should all meet their doom or glory together rather than separate. Roslin reinforced the fleet's hope and gave it direction and purpose. Adama's rousing formal applause generation for Roslin at the end of the episode shows that Adama has firmly buried the hatchet between himself and the President.

* Commander Adama's sense of humor is returning: first in his talk with Billy about Roslin's comments on his future of being president someday ("Don't let it go to your head: [[Adar]] was a moron.") and in his glib comment on how well their luck was going so far, as their Raptor's descent subjected them to several G-forces and pressed both of them firmly, visibly and uncomfortably against the bulkheads.

* Helo is already experiencing repercussions regarding his relationship with Caprica-Boomer. First by Apollo, who voices his uneasiness about the pair to Starbuck and then later, indirectly, by Commander Adama himself who makes a point of leaving Helo outside the Tomb of Athena with Zarek, Boomer and Tyrol. Tyrol was given the order to guard them which indicates that the chief is the only one of the four left outside that Adama trusts.

== Notes ==
*Population is 47,855, a loss of three since Part I. Two of these were seen on-screen in the last episode (Elosha and a [[Laura Roslin faction]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshirt_%28science_fiction%29 Redshirt]). The other may have happened offscreen in the same ambush.
** At episode's end, the count is now 47,853, with the death of [[Meier]] and one of [[Tom Zarek]]'s lackeys.
*This episode may have been titled "The Raid" in its early production.
*The fleet has been reunited, and Commander Adama has restored Laura Roslin to the Presidency.
*The Fleet now has a general idea of the direction they need to take to find Earth.
*Helo still loves Caprica-Sharon, although he knows she's a Cylon.
*Caprica-Sharon's hybrid child is a girl. She claims to just "know" this.
*The child that Six claims she and Baltar will have ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]) is actually Caprica-Sharon and Helo's biological daughter.
*Caprica-Sharon does not "remember" shooting Commander Adama, and she was unaware that Galactica-Sharon was killed by [[Cally]] (she thought she was just in the [[brig]]). Sharon thinks of herself as a "person" and not simply "a machine".
*Caprica-Sharon possesses the memories of Galactica-Sharon's two years aboard the ''Galactica''. She "remembers" how exilerating it was to get her wings and how it felt to be a member of the "family" that is the Galactica's crew, and she considers Chief [[Tyrol]] a dear friend of sorts, even though she admits she herself has never actually met him. Caprica-Sharon herself acknowledges that it's weird that she has deep-seated memories of things she fully knows she's never actually done.
*Caprica-Sharon apparently still believes that there is only "one true God" and that the Colonials "worship false idols".
*Caprica-Sharon flat out says that the Cylons know more about the Colonial religion than the Colonials themselves.
*According to Starbuck's observations, the Cylons have a plan for Caprica; "they're cleaning up the bodies, moving in the heavy machinery to repair the infrastructure..."
**Ron D. Moore has stated in interviews that this is actually a major plot point. Also, while the Cylon [[Farms]] (the hybrid experiments) are logically ''a'' plan for the Twelve Colonies, RDM said that it is not their ''only'' plan.
*Dr. Baltar has had a medical scan performed on his head, and it appears that there are no "foreign objects", like a metallic computer chip containing a copy of Number Six's mind, within it.
*Baltar has come to the realization that the copy of [[Number Six]] he sees cannot be just a hallucination, because she knows things his subconscious mind couldn't possibly know.
*This episode probably begins a few hours after [[Home, Part I]], although it could conceivably begin immediately after it.
*If the map displayed in the Tomb of Athena was from the perspective of an earth-bound viewer, the Lagoon Nebula should have been in Sagittarius, not Scorpio.
*Between Sharon's Heavy Raider that's been returned to the fleet in this episode and the Heavy Raider from [[Scattered]] and [[Valley of Darkness]], the fleet may have up to two captured Heavy Raiders by this point. However, the one that crashed into the starboard flight pod may have been too damaged to be salvagable.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''On "Earth":''
*:Cmdr. Adama: I thought we were in the Tomb of Athena.
*:Starbuck: I think that was just the lobby.

== Official Statements ==

In the podcast for this program, Moore and Eick commented on their attempt to have a more colorful turn of phrase in the dialogue on the Raptor from Chief Tyrol and Adama. Tyrol's original line, in his frustration on reading a map was, "Topography's for pussies, anyway." Likewise, Adama's comment about President Adar to Bill was originally "...Adar was a prick." Both lines were changed at the behest of the studio's standards and practices unit.

== Statistics ==

=== Guest Stars ===
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm1489668/ Leah Cairns] as [[Racetrack]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0001664/ James Remar] as [[Meier]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0722413/ Donnelly Rhodes] as [[Doctor Cottle]]

=== Writing & Direction ===

=== Production Notes ===

*Series 2 (2005 / 2006)
*Production Number: 2.07
*Airdate Order: 7 (of 20)

=== First Run Air Dates & Releases ===

*UK Airdate:
*US Airdate: August 26th, 2005
*DVD Release:

{{Template:Episode List}}

[[Category: Episode Guide (RDM)|Home, Part II]]
[[Category: A to Z|Home, Part II]]

Viper (TRS)

2005-12-11T07:54:32Z

MASON: image upgrade

[[Image:Bsg-viper-1.jpg|thumb|Viper Mk. II (credit: Gabriel C. Koerner)]]
[[Image:BSG-Mark-VII.jpg|thumb|Viper Mk. VII (credit: Zoic Studios)]]

The '''Viper''' is the [[Colonial Defense Force]]'s primary space superiority fighter / attack craft. Capable of atmospheric flight, the Viper is a single-seat craft mounting two kinetic energy weapons ([[KEW]]s), as well as having hardpoints beneath the wings for mounting missiles, munitions pods and other ordnance ([[The Hand of God]]).

The Viper was originally introduced into Colonial service shortly before the outbreak of the [[Cylon War]]. However, it was the Mark II variant, designed specifically for use with the new Colonial [[Battlestar]]s that is best remembered.

The Mark II served with distinction throughout the Cylon War, proving a capable fighting vehicle that won renown across the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]] and is regarded as one of the reasons the Colonials did not suffer defeat at the hands of the Cylons.

The Mark II remained in service after the end of the war, but was subsequently superceded by newer models. At the time of the renewed Cylon attack on the Twelve Colonies, the Mark VII was the front-line variant of the Viper design, retaining the Mark II general layout but using fully networked systems providing superior battle management and fight information for the pilot.

Ironically, it was the incorporation of the new integrated systems that prevented the majority of Mark VII's from being effective during the Cylon attack: as with the majority of Colonial Fleet, the Mark VII suffered fatal computer system failures on contact with Cylon forces. Thanks to [[Six]]'s relationship with [[Gauis Baltar]], the [[CNP|navigational software]] in standard use onboard the majority of Colonial Fleet vessels had backdoors that allowed the Cylons to infiltrate a vessel's network by wireless signals and disable its power systems. While the problem could be overcome by removing the navigational upgrade compromised by the Cylons, this information was not discovered in time to be of major benefit to the surprised and hard-pressed Colonial forces.

== Atmospheric Operations ==
The Viper is designed for atmospheric as well as space-based operations. However, Vipers consume more fuel during atmospheric operations than in the vacuum of space: once in an atmosphere, the engines must run continuously to retain airflow over the wing lifting surfaces. Depending on the composition of the atmosphere itself, this can place severe strain on the Viper's engines ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]).

Due to their wing configuration, Vipers may also suffer from poor handling at low speeds within an atmosphere.

== Life Support ==
Viper cockpits are pressurised and heated, but they are flown with the pilot wearing a [[flight suit]] that is capable of providing full life support should ejection be required ([[You Can't Go Home Again]]). The life support systems are built-in to the back of the pilot's seat itself, together with the flight harness. Following an ejection, the back of the seat separates automatically, effectively becoming a backpack for the pilot ([[Act of Contrition]]).

Should ejection take place within an atmosphere, the life support backpack / seat back also incorporates a parachute.

== Technical Specifications ==

=== Dimensions ===
Mark II
*Length: 8.4082 m
*Wingspan: 4.7168 m
*Height: 2.7247 m (in flight, without landing gear. Landing gear adds approximately 0.5m.)

Mark VII
*Length: 9.8643 m
*Wingspan: 5.61 m
*Height: 2.9508 m (in flight, without landing gear.){{ref|dimensions}}

=== Propulsion ===
*Both: 3x sublight engines mounted aft; 2x reverse thrust motors; [[RCS]] points
*Mark VII: Angular exhaust nozzle design suggest possible thrust-vectoring.

=== Armaments ===
*Mark II: 2x forward-firing kinetic energy weapons ([[KEW]]) mounted in the wing roots
*Mark VII: 3x forward-firing kinetic energy weapons (KEW); 2 mounted towards the outboard sections of the wings; 1 mounted in the vertical stabiliser
*Both: Weapon hardpoints for mounting missiles / munitions pods, etc. under the wings

=== Instruments ===
*Mark II: [[Radio Magnetic Indicator]]
*Mark II: [[Torque Percent Gauge]]
*Mark II: [[Attitude Indicator]]
*Mark II: [[Altimeter]]
*Mark II and VII: [[Computers#Colonial Avionics|Cockpit Avionics]]

=== Crew ===
*Pilot

== Notes ==
Since ''Galactica'' only had 40 Viper Mark II's aboard, they needed as many fighters as possible, thus the remaining Mark VII's were refitted and stripped of their advanced computer systems. However, since this is not how the Mark VII was designed, it makes the craft increasingly difficult to handle and can only be flown by the most experienced pilots such as[[Apollo]] and [[Thrace, Kara|Starbuck]]. Galactica has roughly 6-8 Mark VII's on board after the Cylon attack ("[[Scattered]]", "Flight of the Phoenix"). (source: [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ships/|official Scifi.com series website])

== Layout ==

The Viper is a long, sleek vehicle that can be spilt into two parts, fore and aft.

*Fore section: comprises the nose back to the cockpit. This contains the forward RCS systems for manoeuvring the craft; the forward landing gear; the main [[avionics]] and sensor packages, plus the single-seat cockpit itself
*Stern section: comprises the main engines, fuel tanks, wings and vertial stabiliser. The wings themselves contain the kinetic energy weapons ("guns") and their munitions storage and feeds. Hardpoints beneath the wings allow missiles, munitions pods and other items to be rack-mounted ([[The Hand of God]]). The wings roots contain the main landing gear. This section of a Viper also contains a number of RCS manoeuvring packs.

The stern section of a Viper is distinctive because of the offset "intakes" mounted just behind the cockpit. The port / starboard "intake" nacelles incorporate small but powerful reverse thrust engines that can quickly counter a Viper's forward momentum in an emergency ([[The Hand of God]]).

== Sources ==
#{{note|dimensions}}Dimensions provided by [http://www.leestringer.com/ Lee Stringer], one of the VFX Animators of the Mini-Series. These are for the CGI models, which are based on but not identical to the the fullsize props. Source: [http://www.starshipbuilder.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000012.html Starshipbuilder.com forums]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

User talk:MASON

2005-12-08T15:04:14Z

MASON: /* Interesting "Real World" Trivia */

==Galactica (TOS) and Pegasus (RDM) Comparison Images==

I edited the images myself, the Pegasus was taken from a screenshot of the Pegasus (210) preview video at SciFi.com/battlestar, and the image of the Galactica was taken from BattlestarGalactica.com.
:Nice image, thanks a lot. Welcome to the Wiki. It's good to see new faces here. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:58, 8 October 2005 (EDT)

== Comments from Pegasus(RDM) designer ==

The comments I added to the notes section of the Mercury Class Battlestar page were from direct correspondence with Jose A. Perez.
He has a great website and seems very enthusiastic about his work. http://www.fxstation.com/index.html

: Very nice. :-) Would it be possible to post snippets of the e-mail -- with Mr. Perez's permission, of course -- in [[Mercury class battlestar/Sources|this subpage]]? Thanks! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 21:48, 12 October 2005 (EDT)

:: Well, with the exception of his greeting, I included all his text, in the same order as it originally appeared. I edited some punctuation but no more. :)
:: I'll post my correspondence here for you to judge whether it requires its own page:

From: Jose A Perez
Subject: Re: Pegasus Design
Date: October 12, 2005 6:17:05 PM EDT (CA)
To: Greg Perkins

hello there...

The new design was somewhat of a cross between the look of the old class battlestars, and yet with elements of the new one..Aside from that, it has mostly hull plating (to absorb more damage) , as opposed to the Galactica which has more ribbing...

The harder edges were intentional as well, to match the interior style of the sets more.

Jose A Perez
Visual FX Artist

On Oct 12, 2005, at 3:17 AM, Greg Perkins wrote:

Name: Greg Perkins Comments: Would you be able to comment on the design of the new Pegasus? Was the new design meant to resemble the original series' Galactica and Pegasus Battlestars?

I'm asking in order to make an update to the BSG Wiki: http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=Mercury_class_battlestar

Thanks,

Greg Perkins

==ZOIC interview==

There's a new [http://www.battlestargalactica-online.com/interviews/zoic1_us.php ZOIC interview] over at [http://www.battlestargalactica-online.com/ battlestargalactica-online], which provides some more canonical information about the ship designs in Battlestar Galactica. Although, they refuse to confirm, directly, whether Serenity or a Constitution Class Enterprise appeared in the BSG miniseries

By your command,

--[[User:MASON|Mason]] 00:55, 18 November 2005 (EST)

: Very cool. Thanks for the heads up, Mason! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 08:24, 18 November 2005 (EST)

==Non-Canonical scifi.com/battlestar Information==

The recent RTF ship updates by [[Eyrezer]] have me puzzled. Are we not avoiding the use of scifi.com info for the site, because it has proven false in the past? --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 23:23, 6 December 2005 (EST)

:I'm not entirely thrilled with it, but those ships can all be seen on-screen in background shots. We've actually used scifi as a (tentative) reference on occasion, particularly when they were still keeping track of Vipers back in season one. It can stay, with a little cleanup. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:43, 7 December 2005 (EST)

==Interesting "Real World" Trivia==

I can't figure out what section the following bit of trivia should fall under.

On the NBC announcement of Battlestar Galactica's availability for download in the Apple iTunes Music Store:

:[http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/06/business/06cnd-apple.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1133914439-WbqANPJQfs7cZD9Kk43CtA " 'Battlestar Galactica' is the most stolen show online there is. Rather than have people steal it, they can pay us to see it."] --'''Jeff Zucker''' (the head of NBC/Universal television)

Any help? --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 00:35, 8 December 2005 (EST)

: You can probably put it under the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)]] page. Perhaps we should start on an article which covers Battlestar Galactica and internet downloading, seeing as this issue reared its head before the series ever aired in the States. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:23, 8 December 2005 (EST)

:: I agree, I think a new article would be a good idea, for although we clarify and index canonical information from the show, I think it would also be worthwhile compiling the history of its process of production and renewal. For instance, the SciFi Network was reluctant to air the first season in the United States, and it was only after SkyOne aired season one in the United Kingdom, and massive online file-sharing of those episodes, that the SciFi Network was convinced of Battlestar Galactica's success, and renewed it for a second season. I believe Ron Moore made a plea on his blog asking viewers not to steal the show, online. I suggest that information of this kind be collected in an article entitled '''Battlestar Galactica(RDM) Production History'''. I think there is enough official material (podcasts, Ron Moore's Blog, DVD commentaries and featurettes) that this information can be included into the wiki under its current guidelines. I would discourage public news article contributions unless they contain quotes. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 10:04, 8 December 2005 (EST)

User talk:MASON

2005-12-08T05:36:48Z

MASON: Interesting "Real World" Trivia

User talk:MASON

2005-12-08T05:35:18Z

MASON:

==Galactica (TOS) and Pegasus (RDM) Comparison Images==

I edited the images myself, the Pegasus was taken from a screenshot of the Pegasus (210) preview video at SciFi.com/battlestar, and the image of the Galactica was taken from BattlestarGalactica.com.
:Nice image, thanks a lot. Welcome to the Wiki. It's good to see new faces here. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:58, 8 October 2005 (EDT)

== Comments from Pegasus(RDM) designer ==

The comments I added to the notes section of the Mercury Class Battlestar page were from direct correspondence with Jose A. Perez.
He has a great website and seems very enthusiastic about his work. http://www.fxstation.com/index.html

: Very nice. :-) Would it be possible to post snippets of the e-mail -- with Mr. Perez's permission, of course -- in [[Mercury class battlestar/Sources|this subpage]]? Thanks! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 21:48, 12 October 2005 (EDT)

:: Well, with the exception of his greeting, I included all his text, in the same order as it originally appeared. I edited some punctuation but no more. :)
:: I'll post my correspondence here for you to judge whether it requires its own page:

From: Jose A Perez
Subject: Re: Pegasus Design
Date: October 12, 2005 6:17:05 PM EDT (CA)
To: Greg Perkins

hello there...

The new design was somewhat of a cross between the look of the old class battlestars, and yet with elements of the new one..Aside from that, it has mostly hull plating (to absorb more damage) , as opposed to the Galactica which has more ribbing...

The harder edges were intentional as well, to match the interior style of the sets more.

Jose A Perez
Visual FX Artist

On Oct 12, 2005, at 3:17 AM, Greg Perkins wrote:

Name: Greg Perkins Comments: Would you be able to comment on the design of the new Pegasus? Was the new design meant to resemble the original series' Galactica and Pegasus Battlestars?

I'm asking in order to make an update to the BSG Wiki: http://battlestarwiki.org/index.php?title=Mercury_class_battlestar

Thanks,

Greg Perkins

==ZOIC interview==

There's a new [http://www.battlestargalactica-online.com/interviews/zoic1_us.php ZOIC interview] over at [http://www.battlestargalactica-online.com/ battlestargalactica-online], which provides some more canonical information about the ship designs in Battlestar Galactica. Although, they refuse to confirm, directly, whether Serenity or a Constitution Class Enterprise appeared in the BSG miniseries

By your command,

--[[User:MASON|Mason]] 00:55, 18 November 2005 (EST)

: Very cool. Thanks for the heads up, Mason! -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 08:24, 18 November 2005 (EST)

==Non-Canonical scifi.com/battlestar Information==

The recent RTF ship updates by [[Eyrezer]] have me puzzled. Are we not avoiding the use of scifi.com info for the site, because it has proven false in the past? --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 23:23, 6 December 2005 (EST)

:I'm not entirely thrilled with it, but those ships can all be seen on-screen in background shots. We've actually used scifi as a (tentative) reference on occasion, particularly when they were still keeping track of Vipers back in season one. It can stay, with a little cleanup. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 05:43, 7 December 2005 (EST)

==Interesting "Real World" Trivia==

I can't figure out what section the following bit of trivia should fall under.

On the NBC announcement of Battlestar Galactica's availability in the Apple iTunes Music Store:

:[http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/06/business/06cnd-apple.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1133914439-WbqANPJQfs7cZD9Kk43CtA " 'Battlestar Galactica' is the most stolen show online there is. Rather than have people steal it, they can pay us to see it."] --'''Jeff Zucker''' (the head of NBC/Universal television)

Any help? --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 00:35, 8 December 2005 (EST)

Luxury liner

2005-12-08T05:16:07Z

MASON: image upgrade

[[Image:BSG-Gemon-Liner.jpg|thumb|A Passenger Cruiser credit: Zoic Studios, ©Universal]]
The [[Intersun]] Passenger Cruiser is a standard model passenger liner created by the [[Intersun]] company. The [[Olympic Carrier]], destroyed in the episode "[[33]]" was apparently of this configuration. The other luxury liners in [[the Fleet]], including the [[Rising Star (RDM)|Rising Star]] and [[Cloud 9]] apparently belong to other classes.

==Dimensions==
Length: 825 feet 
Width: 130 feet 
Height: 75 feet 

==Note==
Although presented in some detail on [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ SciFi.com], the name and background of this ship class are at best semi-canonical. Intersun has never been mentioned on screen, nor have any additional ships of this class since "[[33]]".

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Space Park

2005-12-07T12:57:18Z

MASON: image source

[[Image:Space Park.JPG|thumb|The, apparent, Space Park. credit: Zoic Studios ©Universal]]
Type: Intersun Ring Liner 
Length: 4000 feet 
Ring diameter: 1250 feet 

A FTL-capable ship in [[The Fleet|the fleet]] which utilyzes a gravitational ring. (''Scifi.com'')

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Mining ship

2005-12-07T12:45:36Z

MASON: image source

[[Image:Mining ship.JPG|thumb|A mining ship. credit: Zoic Studios ©Universal]]

A '''Mining Ship''' is a ship designed to extract raw metals and minerals. There are several{{ref|several}} in [[the Fleet]], including the [[Monarch]], which serve a vital role in mining [[tylium]] ore.

Mining ships are very hot, dirty, cramped vessels that are not suitable as a refuge for passengers.

Mining ships have a very limited refining ability. Because of this, mining ships work in concert with a [[Refinery Ship]], which handle the bulk of the mineral processing.

==Dimensions==
Length: 2600 feet 
Width: 650 feet 
Height: 220 feet{{ref|source}}

== Sources ==
#{{note|several}}Based on dialog in the opening of "[[Home, Part I]]", there is certainly more than one. Later in that episode, another can clearly be seen to have remained with ''Galactica'' while ''Monarch'' is in orbit of [[Kobol]]. According to SciFi.com, at least one of these is a [[The Twelve Colonies#Tauron|Tauron]]-registered craft.
#{{note|source}}Overview and dimensions courtesy of [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships/ SciFi.com].

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:RDM]]

User talk:MASON

2005-12-07T04:23:29Z

MASON: Non-Canonical scifi.com/battlestar Information

Celestra

2005-12-07T00:23:19Z

MASON: /* Notes */ stress on rendering

In the Original series, the ''Celestra'' is a civilian electronics ship within [[the Fleet]]. It was primarily responsible for work in the field of electronics, including [[Viper]] equipment.

The ''Celestra'' had an open docking bay that was capable of docking Vipers and [[shuttle]]s. The ship had very little in the way of recreational facilities and a bridge that was only accessible from its aft quarter.

Like all ships in the Fleet, the ship had a homing beacon so that it could stay with the Fleet.

''Celestra'' was commanded by Commander [[Kronus]], whose executive officer was [[Charka]].

== Crew ==

A majority of her crew were electronics specalists. A few were also security guards, shuttle pilots and ship operators. After Kronus was awarded command of several additional ships, crew members mutined due to the acts of executive officer Charka and his henchmen.

* [[Damon]]
* [[Aurora]]
* [[Hermes]]

== Notes ==
[[Image:Celestra.JPG|thumb|The Zoic rendering of the ''Celestra'']]
The Sci-Fi Channel website has the ''Celestra'' as a ship listed in the Fleet of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined series]]. This has, however, not yet made [[canon]] as the ship has not been mentioned, and never seen closely enough to discern the large letters "Celestra" which are clearly visible on the side of the CGI model.

[[Category: A to Z]] [[Category: TOS]]
[[Category: Colonial Craft (TOS)]]

Celestra

2005-12-07T00:20:41Z

MASON: /* Notes */

In the Original series, the ''Celestra'' is a civilian electronics ship within [[the Fleet]]. It was primarily responsible for work in the field of electronics, including [[Viper]] equipment.

The ''Celestra'' had an open docking bay that was capable of docking Vipers and [[shuttle]]s. The ship had very little in the way of recreational facilities and a bridge that was only accessible from its aft quarter.

Like all ships in the Fleet, the ship had a homing beacon so that it could stay with the Fleet.

''Celestra'' was commanded by Commander [[Kronus]], whose executive officer was [[Charka]].

== Crew ==

A majority of her crew were electronics specalists. A few were also security guards, shuttle pilots and ship operators. After Kronus was awarded command of several additional ships, crew members mutined due to the acts of executive officer Charka and his henchmen.

* [[Damon]]
* [[Aurora]]
* [[Hermes]]

== Notes ==
[[Image:Celestra.JPG|thumb|The Celestra]]
The Sci-Fi Channel website has the ''Celestra'' as a ship listed in the Fleet of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|re-imagined series]]. This has, however, not yet made [[canon]] as the ship has not been mentioned, and never seen closely enough to discern the large letters "Celestra" which are clearly visible on the side of the CGI model.

[[Category: A to Z]] [[Category: TOS]]
[[Category: Colonial Craft (TOS)]]

File talk:BSG-KEW-Turret.jpg

2005-12-06T18:59:11Z

MASON:

Where do you get these photos? --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:14, 6 December 2005 (EST)
:I get them from the [http://www.fxstation.com/page3/page3.html FXstation] gallery. Oh, and Ricimer, they're not photos... ;) I wish they were, alas, I too sometimes forget the show isn't real. I guess I'll just have to settle for my hallucinogenic, lucid, waking dreams of [[Number Six]]. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 12:23, 6 December 2005 (EST)
::Actually, FXstation has some good images of Caprica city on there too. --[[User:MASON|Mason]] 12:25, 6 December 2005 (EST)