Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:The Temple of Hopes/Archive 1

2006-12-24T19:20:06Z

Luis F. Gonzalez:

'''The Temple of Five Lords.'''

I knew I had heard this title before somewhere, In Battlestar Galactica's case it does not refer to this. However,

::''"In China where Haikou and Qiongshan border on each other there is a grouping of ancient buildings. The group is comprised of temples, gardens and the houses of five famous ministers of the Tang and Song dynasties. Construction of these ancient buildings began during the reign of Emperor Wanli of the Ming Dynasty. The group takes its name from its main building, which is also called the '''Memorial Temple of Five Lords'''. Nine meters in height, the temple is a two-story wooden building covering a floor-space of 560 square meters. During the Tang and Song dynasties, five outstanding ministers were demoted and exiled to Hainan-the bleak end of the earth at that time. And it was to them that the temple was dedicated. With a golden-glazed board reading “Number One Building of Hainan” hung at the front, the temple has become the most popular site among Hainan’s cultural relics."''
::exerpt taken from [http://www.china.org.cn/english/travel/42545.htm Here]
I know that BSG hasn't used any asian references insofar, but I thought it might be interesting to add, and get the imagination going.
--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 07:30, 1 December 2006 (CST)
::: In Chinese, it is called "[http://www.hainan.gov.cn/data/lyxx_jd/2003/12/19/ 五公祠]"(in Chinese).-- [[User:SuperMMX|SuperMMX]] 03:49, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:This really isn't an article since there's nothing really to say. However, we can keep it as a placeholder since we know of [[Number Three]] and her strange vision quest with five luminous beings, and of the Final Five. Probably related. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:51, 1 December 2006 (CST)

::There's nothing to say yet, true... I had thought that there should be at least a "placeholder" as you said, just because there should be an inevitable development around this subject. Anyway never opposed to getting rid of it later if it gets in the way.--[[User:Gallion|Gallion]] 08:12, 1 December 2006 (CST)

Ok. I'm kind of surprised no one has mentioned this, but the Temple of Five "priests" == [[Cylon Models#Final five|five missing Cylon models]], which are devoted to the one god, a jealous god... connection? [[User:Luis F. Gonzalez|Luis F. Gonzalez]] 00:35, 19 December 2006 (CST)

:Maybe. Maybe. A group of humans who are connected with creation of the first humanoid Cylons? Another link to the Lords of Kobol and the Cylon god? Baltar's ultimate destiny? Much will be answered in the next episode... --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:50, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::This leaves one logic gap: the temple is thousands of years old (since the exodus from Kobol happened thousands of years ago), but the humanoid Cylons cannot be more than 50 years old. How can they possibly be connected? --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 10:53, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:::Actually the agents couldn't be more than 40 (assuming that only the original chrome-jobs existed at the armistice and made the humanoids, at the earliest, within a year after their exile). Series information tells us that Cylon agents were in the Colonial's midst no earlier than 2 years prior to the [[miniseries]]. The number that the Colonials date the structure is about 4,000 years. This approximates the time of the Thirteenth Tribe's exodus, at about 3,600 years (see [[Pythia]]). The mystery likely involves what Roslin read from the Scrolls: the Temple's five obelisks represent five ''human priests'' (Cylons in ''any'' form did not exist, or so we think) that worshiped the One Who Name Cannot Be (something). Could that entity be the Cylon God (believed to be the "jealous" God of Kobol that led to the tribal exodus)? [[Dodona Selloi]], a human oracle, also relays a message from the Cylon God to D'Anna-Three, further suggesting that the Cylon God and the Lords are Kobol are connected. The [[Hybrid]]'s information about the Eye of Jupiter further reinforces a connection. We know much, and yet so little. That alone gives you a big "holy frak" feeling after watching this cliffhanger. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:47, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::::I see two plausible theories here:
::::1. The fact that there are five missing models and five priests is just a coincidence. The Final Five left Cylon society for some reason and ran across an abandoned manmade temple, which just happened to contain a lot of reference to the number five. Deducing that it had to be the Temple of Five the Scriptures write about, they thought it fitting to leave clues to their identity there.
::::2. The Final Five were somehow 'possessed' (or something similar) by the 'ghosts' of the five priests, and were threatened to be boxed for that, so they fled. They hid clues in the Temple of the Five, a place which they could easily find and was of great importance to them.
:::::Or 3. The [[Religion_in_the_Twelve_Colonies#The Cycle of Time|Cycle of Time]] - The past equals the present. ($PAST == $PRESENT) The five priests of the one [http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=33899428 jealous god] in the past are the same as the five Cylons models. The five in the past came to the same conclusions as the five in the present. [[User:Luis F. Gonzalez|Luis F. Gonzalez]] 12:53, 23 December 2006 (CST)

::::Both are plausible, but depend on unlikely things: #1 depends on extreme coincidence (five priests, five final models who just happen to find the temple), #2 depends on spiritual things like possession. I hope someone else can come up with a more likely theory. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 13:49, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:::::I just think the scriptures prophesized the 5 priests and built the temple for them, and when the Final Five read the scriptures they eventually became convinced it reffered to them and went and did whatever they had to do at the temple. Much like Roslin's situation: the tomb of Athena was already built even if no one had ever used it before, and Roslin was already prophesized, it only took for her to realize this to go and do it all, but everything else was ready for her. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 13:57, 23 December 2006 (CST)
::::::And whatever they had to do is prophesized in the scrolls, and that is of course creative fodder for the gourmet trough of the next scriptwriters feast of an episode. [[User:Luis F. Gonzalez|Luis F. Gonzalez]] 13:20, 24 December 2006 (CST)

Talk:The Temple of Hopes/Archive 1

2006-12-23T18:53:22Z

Luis F. Gonzalez: in the

Talk:The Temple of Hopes/Archive 1

2006-12-19T06:48:40Z

Luis F. Gonzalez:

Talk:The Temple of Hopes/Archive 1

2006-12-19T06:35:13Z

Luis F. Gonzalez:

Talk:Leoben Conoy (New Caprica copy)/Archive 1

2006-10-28T21:14:10Z

Luis F. Gonzalez: /* Merge "Gemenon Traveller Copy" and "New Caprica Copy" */

== Note on Cylon Numbers ==

I don't know what other people think, but now that four of the twelve Cylon model numbers are accounted for, can we put a note on Conoy saying something to the effect of, "Leoben Conoy is either Number 1, 2, 4, 7, 9, or 10? I couldn't figure out how to place it.--[[User:Wldkt1|Wldkt1]] 18:34, 25 February 2006 (EST)
:There's no way to word it without that being clumsy. We shouldn't make a note of it until we know for certain. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:40, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:Don't bother doing anything saying "well, it's one of these 8 numbers" is just too complicated.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:11, 25 February 2006 (EST)

I'm betting on Leoben being number 4. Anyone else want to venture a guess (just for fun)? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:16, 25 February 2006 (EST)

I don't know, he could be number 2--[[User:Wldkt1|Wldkt1]] 20:21, 2 March 2006 (CST)

Hi. I feel I should point out that both the DVD cover and an entry in RDM's Blog at Scifi.com refer to this Cylon as 'Leobon', not 'Leoben'.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:39, 4 March (EST)

:The official site is notriously bad on exact spelling; IMDB lists it with an e.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:41, 4 March 2006 (CST)

== Spelling? ==
I don't mean to be dense here, but just why is Leoben's surname consistently spelled "Conoy" when Roslin distinctly pronounces it as "Conroy" in [[Flesh and Bone]]? I've poked around a bit and this is the only instance that I can find of the name actually being spoken in the series. Did Roslin mispronounce it or is this a misspelling that has gotten way out of hand? Just wondering about that for a while now...--[[User:grugnir|Grugnir]]

:Apparently this is a topic of [http://s9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=4282 debate]. Can anybody listen to the episode in question to confirm definitively on the "Conoy" vs. "Conroy"? Information from the episode would definitely trump the imdb credits. (But credits from the show itself would be valuable...) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:50, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

::Well, we always new it as Conoy for over a year after the mini (somehow) before Roslin open the controversy by saying "Conroy", but keep in mind she isn't exactly reliable since it was the first time she'd heard the name, at least in a long time. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18 April 2006

:I'll work on some spectrograms ASAP. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:18, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

::If you go to the skiffy discussion of it, someone found the proof we had back when the mini aired, the credits:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/clivex/mini_credits_01.jpg

Credit: Clivex

--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:50 18 April 2006

==Siblings==
Should we mention that all humanoid Cylons are technically siblings, as has been mentioned on screen is thus canon?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:59, 17 March 2006 (EST)

:It would be nice I think. After all, the Cavil's referred to each other as "Brother", and not because of G-Cavil's role as a priest. Six also called Sharon "little sister". This in itself supports not only what they call one another but also possibly supporting the age theory. I just agree that it would be good to add. --[[Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17 March 2006

::It's an "attitude" but not really true; no it should not be included. I mean, Sharon actually said she "thought of" ''Starbuck'' as her "big sister". It should not be put into a character template like that. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:47, 19 March 2006 (CST)

:Absolutely not. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:48, 19 March 2006 (CST)
::Don't they say "We are gods childeren." at one point? I have to go back to find the excat wording and when it's said, but I am pretty sure Six (In Guais's Head) says something like this at one point when Eight and the good doctor are together. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:14, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:::Shane, it doesn't matter. The term "siblings" does not apply to Cylons in the conventionally understood sense. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:18, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:::: Mine was just a comment.. Just a comment. But if you want my option.. [[Wikipedia:Sibbling]] defines it as 

::::'''A family is a domestic group of people (or a number of domestic groups), typically affiliated by birth or marriage, or by comparable legal relationships — including domestic partnership, adoption, surname and (in some cases) ownership (as occurred in the Roman Empire).'''

::::'''Although many people (including social scientists) have understood familial relationships in terms of "blood", many anthropologists have argued that one must understand the notion of "blood" metaphorically, and that many societies understand 'family' through other concepts rather than through "blood."''' 

::::Blood or in our case is Synthic Pathways. They are all the same. They seems to have a common bond in which they were formed. They were rasied together, they were "[[Downloaded]]" together, they even have could be considered a [[Wikipedia:Clan]] which falls under Family. As long as one has an understanding of where they came from, in this case God, to them, they have a system of Heiarchy. Even stated right here in [[Cylon_agent]] does it say, "''Cylon agents can be programmed to believe that they are truly human. These are known as "sleeper" agents. Sleeper agents appear to have a low-level Cylon personality that can conduct operations while placing the human sleeper personality "on-hold". The first copy of Sharon Valerii, known by her callsign of "Boomer" on battlestar Galactica, had little awareness of her true nature until her arrest for the attempted assassination of William Adama (Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II). This sleeper agent conducted or aided in sabotage operations within the Fleet ("Water", "Litmus"). Most agent copies, particularly Numbers Five and Six, imitate human personalities, but are fully aware of their true nature.''". This gives me proof that we do beleive that they are somewhat connected and they do feel like Siblings. If this is cause to go against this, we should change that page to say, "They are not connected to one another. No Cylons ever hangs out with another due to the fact they are not related." Not to mention that Cavil says "Hello Brother" as he enters the cell. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:32, 19 March 2006 (CST)

:::::Shane just let it '''go''', it's not supported. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:38, 19 March 2006 (CST)
::::::By two people out of a little over 1,000 people on the Wiki? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:40, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:::::::The most it deserves is the (possible) note that they appear to think of eachother as siblings. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 23:36, 19 March 2006 (CST)
::::::::I put that note in the Cylon History article. I thought it might be nice to add them as Siblings, but if the majority is against it I don't mind. Just an idea.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:14, 20 March 2006 (EST)
::::::::: My count from this is... --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:40, 20 March 2006 (CST)
:::::::::::It's really not that important.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:48, 20 March 2006 (EST)
:::::::::::Although it can provide a useful guideline, this wiki is not run on a majority rules basis. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:19, 28 March 2006 (CST)

To chime in... I believe the whole "brother" or "sister" thing is analogous with groups of friends calling each other "brother" or "sister". They're not related by bloodlines, but rather by friendship. Also, the whole "brother" and "sister" terminology has more religious over tones, given the Cylon's creation of a monotheistic religion. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:03, 28 March 2006 (CST)

== Straw Vote ==
I motion to kill the vote, or at least archive it, as it is kind of an eyesore and consensus has likely long since been imposed on the configuration of the article. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:30, 18 April 2006 (CDT) 
'''Support'''
# [[User:Shane|Shane]]
# [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]]
# Minor - [[User:Durandal|Durandal]]
#Minor- [[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]]
'''Not Support'''
# [[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]]
# [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]]
# [[User:Mrxerox|Mrxerox]]
# [[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) (This is kind of silly, no?)
# [[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] (yep)
'''Neutral'''

==Merge "Gemenon Traveller Copy" and "New Caprica Copy"==
I think it's pretty clear, and more than implied with several lines on screen, that the Leoben who captures Kara in New Caprica is the same one whom she interrogated before. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:37, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
:I want to agree, but didn't the Leoben in "Flesh and Bone" explicitly acknowledge that he was out of download range?
::Thrace: …I think that you're afraid. You're afraid that we're a long way from home. What if you don't transfer all the way back? What if, when you die here, you really die? It's your chance to find out if you're really god or just a bunch of circuits with a bad haircut.
::Conoy: I'm not afraid of dying.
:Later:
::Conoy: The warhead doesn't exist. I made it up. The lieutenant was right; I was too far out. I didn't wanna die, so when I got caught I made up a story to buy some time.
:Of course, and I must resist the urge to slip into outright fanwankery, it's possible that this Leoben simply ''didn't know'' that a Resurrection Ship had been dispatched the follow the fleet. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:19, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::My favorite theory is that, like he usually is, he is just BSing them. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:26, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Yeah, I mean, he did also say Adama was a Cylon....The fact that NC Leoben says "To know the face of God is to know madness" in a way that seemed to point him out as the GT copy. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:29, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::::OK, I think we can say that you can't take anything that Leoben Conoy says as truth. He's says whatever he says simply to play with your mind. But the fact is that it was the Gemenon Traveller Copy, not the Ragnar Anchorage Copy or any other copy that was connected to Starbuck. It's a matter of making sense. Why would any other copy of Leoben be chasing after Starbuck? 1/12 of the Cylon race doesn't have it out specifically for Starbuck, just the 1 nut.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:52, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::Apparently, they ''all'' have it out for Starbuck, as we learned in "The Farm":
::::::Caprica-Valerii: They know who you are, Kara. You're special. Leoben told you that. You have a destiny.
:::::In the end, even though we might suspect it, I don't think we can safely assume that New Caprica-Conoy and Gemenon Traveller-Conoy are the same person. He never explicitly mentioned having memories of their previous encounter, and the Cylons appear to be fascinated with Kara for reasons entirely apart from Conoy, who didn't even appear in "The Farm". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:10, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:There will never be much certainty, since this grey area leads to better plotlines. In my opinion it is clear that they are the same. Which leads me to believe that there has been interrmittent communication with the Cylon fleet: Cylon Consciousness Communications Protocol (Connection oriented or connectionless??). Anyways the new Cylon fleet was recently shown to have another resurrection ship. [[User:Luis F. Gonzalez|Luis F. Gonzalez]] 16:14, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Occupation/Archive 1

2006-10-28T21:11:10Z

Luis F. Gonzalez: /* Suicide Bombing */

:For discussions prior to October 3, 2006, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Occupation&oldid=66799 click here].

__TOC__

== Sourcing Rules ==
I wonder if the desire to be "authoritative" here at Battlestar Wiki isn't getting twisted and perverted. We know a lot about Season 3 that is somehow not getting into print. For instance, we have photos of some episodes, casting "sides" from some of the scripts, and comments from some of the participants that amount to a pretty clear picture of some of the major plot points of the first few episodes, yet we are not writing what we clearly KNOW because the episodes have not aired and anything would therefore be "speculative." THIS IS RIDICULOUS. These are tougher sourcing rules than they have at the ''New York Times'' and the ''Washington Post'', and let's face it, that is now what people are coming to us for. They want to know what is going on with their favorite show, and god knows we have spoiler warnings everywhere to protect those who don't want to know. Most major newspapers have the "three source rule," which means all or part of what you write needs to be covered by three independent sources. We have that in many cases but are sitting on our hands and not writing the info. The "overview" section we do have for the episodes is not really an overview but a collection of speculation from various sources. If Ron Moore said something at a conference three months ago, we treat it as a grand pronouncement ex cathedra even though three months is a long time and a lot of things can change in TV at the last moment. But we have photos of scenes shot (and published!) and we are not writing what is clearly in them. Something is very screwed up here. No journalistic or editorial operation should be operating this way, being so skittish and chicken s--t about things that any reasonable person can conclude are true. We are a month from the start of Season 3, and Battlestar Wiki is lagging way behind other sources, on the Web and elsewhere, about what will be happening in the new season. We need to grow some brass ones, and write what we know. The whole rest of the world is writing about what will be happening starting Oct. 6. We have decided to wait until after it happens. That's not authoritative; that's stupid. --[[User:Elach|Elach]] 02:31, 6 September 2006 (CDT)
:I think you missed the point of what we are. We are guide to BSG. Not a news source. We collect, eveluate the source. We write only facual information on the show. Most of the information on this page has a cite along with it making it true. We knew a long time ago Anadama Plummer was a guest star because of the podcast link, but we didn't sepculate on the plot because production and recordings change sometimes days before airing. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 02:44, 6 September 2006 (CDT)

== First act up on scifi.com ==
The 1st act of this episode is on the website and some of the speculation is right and some is wrong from the transcript that got circulated earlier this year. Obvious an early draft. In any case, I think that things can be added from this cut from their website which I would like to start after I stop watching this thing over and over and over...and oh by the way, I gotta work to. Maybe I'll make my contributions in a few hours. -- [[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 12:47, 04 October 2006 (AST)

Did anyone else notice that the credits said Candice McClure and not Kandyse McClure? Apparently she had been credited as Candice in some roles earlier in her career but as far as I remember, she has always been credited as Kandyse on Battlestar Galactica. The Sci Fi site still lists her as Kandyse. What gives? Is this just another slip-up on the part of the people in charge of onscreen text? (Remember the problem with Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson in the end credits?) They also spelled Helo's full name incorrectly on the humorous video blog that showed the effect that the Peabody Award had on David Eick. Helo's real name was incorrectly shown as Karl Agation with an "i". [[User:123home123|123home123]] 18:09, 04 October 2006 (EDT)

:I'm going to have to look into that credit issue later. I put a summary in for what was shown on Scifi.com. I hope I did it in the most correct way. Feel free to make modifications where needed. -- [[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 15:53, 04 October 2006 (AST)

:Thanks to Shane, Peter Farago, Spencerian, and Noneofyourbusiness for editing my additions. This is my first time at adding major content to an episode page outside of the The Resistance Webisodes page so I was just letting it flow without worrying about format. Though, I am particularly happy that you all left my use of the terms "skinjobs" and "chromejobs". I felt that this was appropriate from the point of view of the characters involved. -- [[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 21:31, 04 October 2006 (AST)

Request that analysis section is deleted! The comments are not analytical and instead seem rather speculative, amounting to nothing which is noteworthy.-- [[User:jxh487|jxh487]]
:Committing an act of vandalism on the main page isn't going to help your case. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 17:06, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:Jxh487, since the episode has not yet aired, the information is the best official data available. This will last here for one more day in the US, where it will likely be replaced. As the previous user stated, don't vandalize a page to prove a point, please. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:14, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
::Yes, the episode(s) will probably prove or disapprove both points. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 17:26, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:::I want to add back the note telling about this act being played on the website before the airing on TV because I think it is a significant marketing innovation that should be documented, an innovation as important to record as the plot line in the summer. Thoughts?--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 19:43, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

== Speculation? ==

''It is worth noting that in "Exodus, Part II", Ellen betrays Saul in some fashion. Therefore, her motives are presently unknown.''

How can we put this up based on Overview? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:18, 6 October 2006 (CDT)
:We shouldn't. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:31, 6 October 2006 (CDT)

frak the cylons. the human race will ultimately survive. just seen the episode. pretty cool yet it not reveals ellens intentions so we shouldnt. 06:31, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:Her intentions are pretty clear. She will protect Saul at all costs. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 06:54, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

==Oracle Selloi==

I didn't see Amanda Plummer at all in Occuprice, and her name wasn't in credits. Either her scene got deleted, or she'll be appearing in a later episode (more likely, I think). I'm taking her out as a "Special Guest." [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:25, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
:From the teaser, it seems she'll be appearing in Exodus. BTW, "Occuprice" doesn't make much sense as Precipice ends on a "pice" instead of a "price". A better merger would be Occupice. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 21:05, 7 October 2006 (CDT)
::I noticed that too. But the title comes from on high (ie Ron Moore's blog). I realize he probably just mistyped, but I've gotten used to calling it that. The "-pr-" has a better cadence, in my opinion at least. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 21:33, 7 October 2006 (CDT)

:::I'm hoping to see this character; we have so little information on the nature of [[oracle]]s. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:19, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

== Survivor count ==

Did anyone else notice the lack of a survivor count during the starting credits? -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 14:23, 8 October 2006 (CDT)
:I'm guessing that they didn't want to bother, because the body count is moving too fast, and the humans are all split up to boot. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 13:19, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:: That's my assumption as well, right now. I imagine that after the exodus they might resume the count, at least in some form, provided Roslin ever becomes president again. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 14:04, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
::: I think that the reason is they tell the story from a point of view of the characters not from a God-view (or gods-view in their case) of the overall story - meaning, somebody was keeping track of the population count and they just put that info up front for us. And the person who kept track of the population count was always Roslin. Remember, Roslin always kept the population count up on that wallspace and when Baltar became president he replaced it with his own portrait. Now, with the population split up and Roslin no longer in a place of central control, there's nobody keepin a hard track on the population count so that info isn't available to us because that info isn't available to the characters. That's my take.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 18:16, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Season 2 used a gods-eye-view population count - early on in the season, it reflected deaths on Kobol that Roslin couldn't possibly have known about. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:44, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::That might have been a flaw because it was my understanding that the survivor count was reflecting Roslin's survivor count.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 19:40, 9 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::Your understanding is incorrect. See [[Survivor Count]] for a detailed breakdown including several deaths of which Roslin could not have been aware.
::::::There were a total of four people killed on Kobol (Karma, Tarn, Socinus, and Crashdown). The survivors are recovered at the end of "Fragged", but the count in "Resistance" is only decremented by one — presumably Crashdown, who did in fact die in the previous episode. This, along with a single-person decrement between "Scattered" and "Valley of Darkness" in which nobody died except Tarn (who was on Kobol) suggests that the survivor count was omniscient.
::::::Also keep in mind that Roslin was separated from her whiteboard from the end of "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II" to the end of "Home, Part II", and would not have been privy to population statistics. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:52, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

== still missed in the summary ==

Thanks to the people on the english side, our summaries of Occupation and Precipice were probably the first ones, which were released in the internet in german language :o) But there are some things still missing in this both episodes: the diary of Roslin, the discussions between the both Adamas and with Dualla (weak Apollo with fat ash, find somebody who can, Pegasus will not participate), the discussion between Admiral Adama and Sharon Agathon (centurions cannot differenciate the copies), and the discussion of the Cylons at Colonial One (decreasing humankind, the opposition of Galactica-Sharon and Caprica-Six,, WE!! agree), Galactica-Sharons discussions with several humans and the shooting of Caprica-Six. It would be helpful, if the native english speakers could add this to the summaries and point out the real important informations, which were given. Thank you. -- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 16:13, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

== Show Caps ==

I got some relevent screencaps here: [[:md:User:Shane/gallery#Tue_Oct_10_19:26:58_EDT_2006|User:Shane/gallery#Tue Oct 10 19:26:58 EDT 2006]] --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 18:13, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

== Guest stars ==

Has anyone verified all the guest stars listed? I know many of these people were credited at the beginning of Occupation but this was only because Occupation and Precipice were combined into one super-episode. I don't think Rick Worthy (Simon) and Larissa Stadnichuk appeared in Occupation. They only appeared in Precipice. -- [[User:123home123|123home123]] 18:28, 12 October 2006 (EDT)
:I think it's based on what the episode shows rather than what we see. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 17:08, 12 October 2006 (CDT)

== Leave the questions posed in the article! ==

We really should be following the format from the previous episode reviews on the site. Whenever a question was posed and an eventual answer is discovered, the editors in those articles didn't delete the question, they actually added pointers from the question to the Analysis section or notes. Someone else who will read these articles might ask the same questions and may have overlooked the "answers" as there are usually a lot of show notes and analysis. Please do us the courtesy of simply linking or pointing, instead of just off-handly deleting questions. This is a very strange article that it has NO questions at all. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 09:36, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

:But this isn't just about questions in one episode answered further down the line. The answer to Anders's sickness is something that can be deduced from this episode alone. I don't see why it warrants so many bulletpoints. One point speculating that he might have gotten medicine from the Cylons is enough IMO (that might belong to Analysis then tho). The full hospital might not have been built yet, but why should that prevent the Cylons from distributing medicine by other means? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 09:53, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

::Concur. I'm not advocating the squelching of opinions, just that we should hash out the ideas out here on the talk, and then post what the consensus is. It's better for the article to read like there's a single voice, not like a message board. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:11, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Good point about the message board feeling. I already had the impression that those points read like a discussion on a forum, with a clear back and forth. Moreover some have a clear POV, with words such as "granted" and "I think". I removed those. Speculation has a place but it needs to be written from a neutral point of view --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:17, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

God, no. Once a question has been answered conclusively it's been our tradition to move the material to analysis. I'm sorry if I was overzealous in my attempts to clean this page up, but this kind of four-level back-and-forthing is unacceptable. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:48, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

== How do we know that the two Cavils were really killed? ==

I posed the question of whether the two Cavils we've seen are the same ones fro Laying Down Your Burdens. This question was posed in the question section of that episode, and it was clear that no one had a clear answer. Roslin made the statement of throwing those two out of the airlock were off-handingly. It wasn't clear whether they lived or not. The reason I brought it up in this article is because it is very odd that we've only seen two Cavils amongst the leadership of the Cylons right now. We've seen a # of 5s, 6s, 8s, and 3s, 1 Simon, and 2 Cavils. It could be just luck of the draw, but I still believe the question is valid. If those two were the original ones we saw, considering that both of them are dressed in their priestly robes, some of the animosity towards humans from being locked up might be contributing to their harsh hands. --[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 09:36, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
:In a deleted scene for Lay Down Your Burdens Part II, Tyrol says to Cally that they threw the two Cavils out an airlock to night before. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 10:10, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
::Good catch. In that case you should probably add it and remove the rest of the speculation since the deleted scene makes it pointless. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:15, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
::It then seems very strange to me that the two Cavils are both dressed as priests. In every other model of the Cylons that we've seen, their dress indicates what kind of function they perform. It is also the way the show indicates to us which Cylon is which. The Caprica-Six and Boomer are dressed in unique clothing in comparison to the other versions of them. Even Baltar's six is usually dressed in red to seperate her from the other Six's we've seen on the show. It is interesting that the scene was deleted, maybe it was for time, but then it's even stranger that the two Cavils (if they are new versions), are dressed like their counterparts.--[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 10:16, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
:::I really don't think there's any room for speculation here. My impulse is still to delete the entire thing - does anyone besides LifeStar find this a fruitful line of inquiry? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:30, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Not really. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:54, 13 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Asking why the models are dressed the same might be of interest, but I find it extremely implausible, that the Colonials kept the Cavils alive on New Caprica until the Cylons arrived. It makes the most sense to assume they were killed --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:50, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

== Now this is what I'm talking about ==

After reading the further edits and info posted in the article and discussion, it feels like we're gettint to the meat of the episode finally. I may be wrong about the Cavils, esp. the idea of them being kept on New Caprica does seem implausible, but it was good to flesh those ideas out. For Anders, he may have been given medicine by the Cylons, just n ot sure. Either case, I hope that we'll let the questions remain, and point out the answers, when we discover them, in the analysis section. More people who read these articles may ask the same questions and would like to know that there is a provided answer.--[[User:LifeStar|LifeStar]] 10:24, 13 October 2006 (CDT)

== Suicide Bombing ==
I don't know if this has been brought up in other episode discussions, but as foreign and repulsive as suicide bomgings are made to appear to the humans and cylons, this was not the first time since a Doral (#5) already committed this act. My hypothesis is that the Cylons have had intermittent communications with the Colonial Fleet, (#3) video. (which just made me wonder, future episode fodder...how did the undercover #3 get exposed?) Depending on whether he wanted to be resurrected/reincarnated with the bombing memories there may be a #5 with the bomber memories (future episode fodder - develop #5's character) [[User:Luis F. Gonzalez|Luis F. Gonzalez]] 16:11, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Occupation/Archive 1

2006-10-28T21:04:35Z

Luis F. Gonzalez: