Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Messengers/Archive 1

2008-04-11T16:26:52Z

LicensedLunacy:

:''For discussions prior to March 14, 2007, [http://en.battlestarwiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Virtual_beings&oldid=110913 see this revision.]''

== Major revision ==

This article was strewn with theories and [[BW:FANW|fanwankery]] that cluttered the article. With the revelations of season 3, what is known about the nature of the virtual Six and Baltar reduces the probability of earlier speculation. Recent contributions have been more of possibility that is hardly supported by aired content, and reading the article as a whole was nearly impossible. As well, the article repeated informaation already present in the episode guides or a more relevant article. I have rewritten the article to keep sole focus on the origins, motivations and behavior of the virtual beings, removing all previous irrelevant, incorrect or otherwise inappropriate content on their nature or history.

As this article deals with the virtual beings related to Cylon activity, I eliminated the text on other character visions; they are more suited for a separate article to keep topics from blending.

With major revisions like this, there is always a possibility that something significant was lost. Contributors should feel free to add in significant notes of the virtual beings, but please do not repeat every instance of the being's presence or interject speculation that is not supported with episode content. The article, in my opinion and recommendation, should focus more on what they do to the actual characters and less on their nature until the show reveals more of their origin. Again, please be careful about excessive speculation; "theories" per se are not acceptable on Battlestar Wiki. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

== Virtual Baltar Episodes ==

In the major edit, I botched the episode citation for virtual Baltar's visit to C-Six in her jail cell. One or both of the episode citations I noted are wrong. Corrections to this information are appreciated. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:54, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:The visit is in "The Woman King". That's where the two kiss and they wonder what's going on.--[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:00, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

About this: "Neither character has revealed the presence of these images to each other or any other character as of the episode, "[[The Woman King]]" (where the virtual Baltar makes an appearance)." 
Does this mean that it is the first instance where another character (here Roslin) really wonders what one of them is doing? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 16:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

:It should say "Neither character has revealed the existence (...)." Other characters have witnessed the strange behavior, but to my memory, only Roslin has verbally wondered. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

Virtual Baltar has appeared to Baltar. -- [[User:LicensedLunacy|LicensedLunacy]] 16:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

==Virtual Leoben==
Shouldn't we add virtual Leoben? He's sort of important I'd say, and is not a part of Kara...--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:34, 14 March 2007 (CDT)

:That's a good question. I would say "yes" but that also introduces other dream-related visions such as the ones I removed. I recommend "no" as the article should limit itself to visions that are experienced by characters in real-time and not while unconscious (sleeping or otherwise). That's my opinion and is open for more scrutiny. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:09, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:No. There is a good chance that Head-Six and Head-Baltar are somehow Cylon-related. That chance is not so great with Maelstrom Leoben, since IMHO it's more likely just a representation of her own subconscious and not in any way whatsoever related to the real Leoben (it even says so in the episode). --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:04, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::Maybe we should add at least a note about Maelstrom Leoben and A Day in Life Carolanne, though? 12:37, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
:::I concur with Serenity. The virtuals are definitely a unexpected (and unrevealed) side-effect of Cylon technology, that much is certain. The virtual Leoben ''isn't'' a Cylon, and doesn't appear in real time. He needs a separate article (and deserves it). --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::::I've created a [[virtual Leoben]] article and updated the relevant pages where he it cited. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:00, 15 March 2007 (CDT)
::::I have to disagree that the virtual Six and Baltar are definitely, or even probably, a result of Cylon technology. Their nature is as unknown as the virtual Leoben's. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:37, 1 November 2007 (CDT)

==Cylon Tech==
Isn't this line: "Since the effect appears to occur only between Caprica-Six and Gaius Baltar, it is possible that their visions are an unknown side-effect of Cylon technology," complete specualtion? I think it should be removed, but before doing so, I thought I'd check to make sure there wasn't any concensus I wasn't aware of. If it happened with the other six members of the [[Significant Seven]] (or even a majority of them) I wouldn't have as much of a problem, but as it's only happened with Six and Baltar I think it's out of place. If anything, a more appropriate stateent would be something like it's an unkown side-effect of cylon-human intimacy.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 21:09, 3 June 2007 (CDT)
:The way you phrase is still speculation, but is more precise to what we know, and would be more appropriate. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]]
::I completely agree, and I'd rather remove it outright, but was trying to be diplomatic. I'm going to remove it completely.--[[User:RUSnooky|RUSnooky]] 10:25, 4 June 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Leoben Conoy (New Caprica copy)/Archive 1

2008-04-11T16:20:42Z

LicensedLunacy:

== Note on Cylon Numbers ==

I don't know what other people think, but now that four of the twelve Cylon model numbers are accounted for, can we put a note on Conoy saying something to the effect of, "Leoben Conoy is either Number 1, 2, 4, 7, 9, or 10? I couldn't figure out how to place it.--[[User:Wldkt1|Wldkt1]] 18:34, 25 February 2006 (EST)
:There's no way to word it without that being clumsy. We shouldn't make a note of it until we know for certain. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:40, 25 February 2006 (EST)

:Don't bother doing anything saying "well, it's one of these 8 numbers" is just too complicated.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 19:11, 25 February 2006 (EST)

I'm betting on Leoben being number 4. Anyone else want to venture a guess (just for fun)? --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 20:16, 25 February 2006 (EST)

I don't know, he could be number 2--[[User:Wldkt1|Wldkt1]] 20:21, 2 March 2006 (CST)

:My bets are on Leoben 7, Simon 4, Cavil 2. Lower numbers seem more administrative in bearing, more practical than intuitive, and their simulation of humanity more based on cynical experience than gut (not to mention the actors are older - sorry Lucy). Leoben seems more of an intuitive, younger (for a male cylon), rogue individual. More like Sharon 8 than Doral 5, Cavil or D'Anna 3.--[[User:Viperetto13|Viperetto13]] 22:24, 27 December 2006 (CST)

::I would also guess he's Number Seven. That way the four from the miniseries would be Five, Six, Seven and Eight. But Leoben being Number 4 and Simon being Number 7 would be my next guess. I have a feeling that the 7 known cylons are numbers 3 through 9 and that there is a male and female for 1 and 2 and then two females and a male for 10-12. But this is all guesswork. --[[User:Meteor|Meteor]] 16:49, 18 January 2007 (EST)

Hi. I feel I should point out that both the DVD cover and an entry in RDM's Blog at Scifi.com refer to this Cylon as 'Leobon', not 'Leoben'.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:39, 4 March (EST)

:The official site is notriously bad on exact spelling; IMDB lists it with an e.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 14:41, 4 March 2006 (CST)

I'm going to bet on Leoben being Number 1, because "Leoben Conoy" is an anagram for "Boy Clone One." Maybe it's just a coincidence, but it's as good a reason as any, considering "Leoben Conoy" is a strange name to begin with. [[User:Mr. Salty|Mr. Salty]]

His number has been revealed. He is number 2. -- [[User:LicensedLunacy|LicensedLunacy]] 16:20, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== Spelling? ==
I don't mean to be dense here, but just why is Leoben's surname consistently spelled "Conoy" when Roslin distinctly pronounces it as "Conroy" in [[Flesh and Bone]]? I've poked around a bit and this is the only instance that I can find of the name actually being spoken in the series. Did Roslin mispronounce it or is this a misspelling that has gotten way out of hand? Just wondering about that for a while now...--[[User:grugnir|Grugnir]]

:Apparently this is a topic of [http://s9.invisionfree.com/Ragnar_Anchorage/index.php?showtopic=4282 debate]. Can anybody listen to the episode in question to confirm definitively on the "Conoy" vs. "Conroy"? Information from the episode would definitely trump the imdb credits. (But credits from the show itself would be valuable...) --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:50, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

::Well, we always new it as Conoy for over a year after the mini (somehow) before Roslin open the controversy by saying "Conroy", but keep in mind she isn't exactly reliable since it was the first time she'd heard the name, at least in a long time. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18 April 2006

:I'll work on some spectrograms ASAP. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:18, 18 April 2006 (CDT)

::If you go to the skiffy discussion of it, someone found the proof we had back when the mini aired, the credits:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y256/clivex/mini_credits_01.jpg

Credit: Clivex

--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:50 18 April 2006

==Siblings==
Should we mention that all humanoid Cylons are technically siblings, as has been mentioned on screen is thus canon?--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 15:59, 17 March 2006 (EST)

:It would be nice I think. After all, the Cavil's referred to each other as "Brother", and not because of G-Cavil's role as a priest. Six also called Sharon "little sister". This in itself supports not only what they call one another but also possibly supporting the age theory. I just agree that it would be good to add. --[[Sauron18|Sauron18]] 17 March 2006

::It's an "attitude" but not really true; no it should not be included. I mean, Sharon actually said she "thought of" ''Starbuck'' as her "big sister". It should not be put into a character template like that. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:47, 19 March 2006 (CST)

:Absolutely not. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:48, 19 March 2006 (CST)
::Don't they say "We are gods childeren." at one point? I have to go back to find the excat wording and when it's said, but I am pretty sure Six (In Guais's Head) says something like this at one point when Eight and the good doctor are together. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:14, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:::Shane, it doesn't matter. The term "siblings" does not apply to Cylons in the conventionally understood sense. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:18, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:::: Mine was just a comment.. Just a comment. But if you want my option.. [[Wikipedia:Sibbling]] defines it as 

::::'''A family is a domestic group of people (or a number of domestic groups), typically affiliated by birth or marriage, or by comparable legal relationships — including domestic partnership, adoption, surname and (in some cases) ownership (as occurred in the Roman Empire).'''

::::'''Although many people (including social scientists) have understood familial relationships in terms of "blood", many anthropologists have argued that one must understand the notion of "blood" metaphorically, and that many societies understand 'family' through other concepts rather than through "blood."''' 

::::Blood or in our case is Synthic Pathways. They are all the same. They seems to have a common bond in which they were formed. They were rasied together, they were "[[Downloaded]]" together, they even have could be considered a [[Wikipedia:Clan]] which falls under Family. As long as one has an understanding of where they came from, in this case God, to them, they have a system of Heiarchy. Even stated right here in [[Cylon_agent]] does it say, "''Cylon agents can be programmed to believe that they are truly human. These are known as "sleeper" agents. Sleeper agents appear to have a low-level Cylon personality that can conduct operations while placing the human sleeper personality "on-hold". The first copy of Sharon Valerii, known by her callsign of "Boomer" on battlestar Galactica, had little awareness of her true nature until her arrest for the attempted assassination of William Adama (Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II). This sleeper agent conducted or aided in sabotage operations within the Fleet ("Water", "Litmus"). Most agent copies, particularly Numbers Five and Six, imitate human personalities, but are fully aware of their true nature.''". This gives me proof that we do beleive that they are somewhat connected and they do feel like Siblings. If this is cause to go against this, we should change that page to say, "They are not connected to one another. No Cylons ever hangs out with another due to the fact they are not related." Not to mention that Cavil says "Hello Brother" as he enters the cell. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:32, 19 March 2006 (CST)

:::::Shane just let it '''go''', it's not supported. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 22:38, 19 March 2006 (CST)
::::::By two people out of a little over 1,000 people on the Wiki? --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 22:40, 19 March 2006 (CST)
:::::::The most it deserves is the (possible) note that they appear to think of eachother as siblings. --[[User:Durandal|Durandal]] 23:36, 19 March 2006 (CST)
::::::::I put that note in the Cylon History article. I thought it might be nice to add them as Siblings, but if the majority is against it I don't mind. Just an idea.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 13:14, 20 March 2006 (EST)
::::::::: My count from this is... --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 12:40, 20 March 2006 (CST)
:::::::::::It's really not that important.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:48, 20 March 2006 (EST)
:::::::::::Although it can provide a useful guideline, this wiki is not run on a majority rules basis. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:19, 28 March 2006 (CST)

To chime in... I believe the whole "brother" or "sister" thing is analogous with groups of friends calling each other "brother" or "sister". They're not related by bloodlines, but rather by friendship. Also, the whole "brother" and "sister" terminology has more religious over tones, given the Cylon's creation of a monotheistic religion. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:03, 28 March 2006 (CST)
:Except that the Cavils aren't religious. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 20:54, 1 May 2007 (CDT)

== Straw Vote ==
I motion to kill the vote, or at least archive it, as it is kind of an eyesore and consensus has likely long since been imposed on the configuration of the article. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 15:30, 18 April 2006 (CDT) 
'''Support'''
# [[User:Shane|Shane]]
# [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]]
# Minor - [[User:Durandal|Durandal]]
#Minor- [[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]]
'''Not Support'''
# [[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]]
# [[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]]
# [[User:Mrxerox|Mrxerox]]
# [[User:Day|Day]] ([[User talk:Day|talk]]) (This is kind of silly, no?)
# [[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] (yep)
'''Neutral'''

==Merge "Gemenon Traveller Copy" and "New Caprica Copy"==
I think it's pretty clear, and more than implied with several lines on screen, that the Leoben who captures Kara in New Caprica is the same one whom she interrogated before. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:37, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
:I want to agree, but didn't the Leoben in "Flesh and Bone" explicitly acknowledge that he was out of download range?
::Thrace: …I think that you're afraid. You're afraid that we're a long way from home. What if you don't transfer all the way back? What if, when you die here, you really die? It's your chance to find out if you're really god or just a bunch of circuits with a bad haircut.
::Conoy: I'm not afraid of dying.
:Later:
::Conoy: The warhead doesn't exist. I made it up. The lieutenant was right; I was too far out. I didn't wanna die, so when I got caught I made up a story to buy some time.
:Of course, and I must resist the urge to slip into outright fanwankery, it's possible that this Leoben simply ''didn't know'' that a Resurrection Ship had been dispatched the follow the fleet. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:19, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::My favorite theory is that, like he usually is, he is just BSing them. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:26, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
:::Yeah, I mean, he did also say Adama was a Cylon....The fact that NC Leoben says "To know the face of God is to know madness" in a way that seemed to point him out as the GT copy. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:29, 25 October 2006 (CDT)
::::OK, I think we can say that you can't take anything that Leoben Conoy says as truth. He's says whatever he says simply to play with your mind. But the fact is that it was the Gemenon Traveller Copy, not the Ragnar Anchorage Copy or any other copy that was connected to Starbuck. It's a matter of making sense. Why would any other copy of Leoben be chasing after Starbuck? 1/12 of the Cylon race doesn't have it out specifically for Starbuck, just the 1 nut.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:52, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:::::Apparently, they ''all'' have it out for Starbuck, as we learned in "The Farm":
::::::Caprica-Valerii: They know who you are, Kara. You're special. Leoben told you that. You have a destiny.
:::::In the end, even though we might suspect it, I don't think we can safely assume that New Caprica-Conoy and Gemenon Traveller-Conoy are the same person. He never explicitly mentioned having memories of their previous encounter, and the Cylons appear to be fascinated with Kara for reasons entirely apart from Conoy, who didn't even appear in "The Farm". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:10, 26 October 2006 (CDT)
:There will never be much certainty, since this grey area leads to better plotlines. In my opinion it is clear that they are the same. Which leads me to believe that there has been interrmittent communication with the Cylon fleet: Cylon Consciousness Communications Protocol (Connection oriented or connectionless??). Anyways the new Cylon fleet was recently shown to have another resurrection ship. [[User:Luis F. Gonzalez|Luis F. Gonzalez]] 16:14, 28 October 2006 (CDT)
::Hehe, I'd wonder what might happen if Leoben accidentally leaves hi "love memories" of Kara in the general database for all Leobens to download and then all of them have a thing for Kara. It would be....creepy, yet interesting. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:37, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

==Main Image==
Hey, I've been thinking about Leoben's main image, and I last updated it with a promo pic from "TEOJ", but we recently got one of thim as well from "Rapture", and I think they're both quite good, so I wanted to know which might be generally preferred....

<gallery>
Image:Le0ben.jpg|Picture 1
Image:Leoben2.jpg|Picture 2
</gallery>

What do you think? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:16, 24 December 2006 (CST)
:I'd go with #2. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 17:21, 24 December 2006 (CST)
::I don't know, I'd go with either, #1 is more of a head-on (no pun intended) view which I think is better for the main image of an article. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 18:02, 24 December 2006 (CST)
:::I dunno, I too was leaning towards #2...--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 18:47, 24 December 2006 (CST)
::::I prefer #1, for the reasons Talos gave. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 22:58, 27 December 2006 (CST)
:::::So, that's a 50/50....anyone else have any thoughts? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 07:09, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:::::: Number 2 is a closer facial image --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:37, 9 January 2007 (CST)
:Picture 2 it'll be. If eventually other better promo pics come up, we can discuss it here. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:02, 14 January 2007 (CST)

I like Picture 2, but I'm curious; did Leoben actually appear on the algae planet, or was that scene cut out? --[[User:DrBat|DrBat]] 15:10, 25 April 2007 (CDT)
:It's from a cut scene. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 15:38, 25 April 2007 (CDT)

Talk:Number One/Archive 1

2008-04-11T16:19:14Z

LicensedLunacy:

== Categories ==
This page doesn't have any categories. I don't wish to read the spoiler stuff, but if somebody could kindly sort it I'd appreciate it. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 11:31, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:Well, having stumbled into some spoiler-ish discussion on a talk page, I believe that categories on this page might end up being a spoiler themselves. I guess we can put categories on this once the cat is out of the proverbial bag. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:04, 3 March 2006 (CST)
:: We'll find out tonight, I guess. I'm looking forward to it. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 09:07, 3 March 2006 (CST)

== Article name ==

I believe it should be Cavil, not Brother Cavil, same as it's Cally, not Specialist Cally.
:Yep. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:20, 4 March 2006 (CST)

His number is One, as revealed in 4x02. The title should be changed. -- [[User:LicensedLunacy|LicensedLunacy]] 16:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

== Cylon? ==

Just from speculation based on the 'not at any of the cylon meetings' line, which is so similar to Six's line.

Also if he is a cylon he could be 'Number 1,' as that so far the lower the number the higher the age of the cylon. Perhaps that makes him the 'leader', that is, if cylon's have leaders in their 'society based on unity'.

Just a guess--[[User:Antagonist|Antagonist]] 21:12, 7 March 2006 (CST)

: I doubt he is Number 1. Plus, as people keep on forgetting, Cylons only ''appear'' to age -- they don't actually grow up from infancy like humans do. They're made as old as they look (or as young as they look). Period. I wouldn't be surprised if he was Number 12, thus sinking the whole "model number sorted by age" thing. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 17:47, 12 March 2006 (CST)
::I agree, though I'll take it a step further and say that he is likely Number 12, and likely not Number 1. I think either we have not seen Number 1 yet in any form...or else Number 1 has been there from the beginning, and will be a big surprise for us. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 12:52, 17 March 2006 (CST)

::Do we know if both discovered models were named Cavil? Because that makes me suspicious that their discovery together wouldn't be accidental. And especially with how in agreement they were even after being separately for months (presumably). I don't trust their words, especially now that the Colony was subjugated. [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 12:42, 13 March 2006 (CST)

:::As far as I know, there's no on screen evidence of Caprica Cavil being called Cavil directly. We just call him "Caprica Cavil" for the sake of discerning the two different copies of that model, since we only know that model by Cavil. Hope that isn't as confusing as it reads... -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] 13:09, 13 March 2006 (CST)

== Cavil and Cylon Aging ==
Regardless of whether or not the claim about preaching longer than Tyrol has been "sucking down oxygen" is correct, Cavil's apparent age (approximately 70, going by Dean Stockwell's real age) gives us some hints about the maturation of Humano-Cylons. It would be very safe to assume that the Cylons haven't been at this for a whole 70 years--otherwise, agents would probably have been introduced into Colonial society during the ''first'' war, instead of waiting for the second, and Baltar and Adama and every other survivor wouldn't have been surprised by the fact that they "look like us." A Humano-Cylon body, pre-download, seems to be either a) generated from scratch and resembling a particular age the moment it's ready (an instant twenty-something Sharon, early thirties Six, and late sixties/early seventies Cavil), or b) Cylon genes can be temporarily tweaked to accelerate an aging process that is usually human normal. Either way, the Cylons don't seem to spend 20-plus years generating a new body. Master geneticists that they are, why would they have to wait? -- [[User:BlueResistance|BlueResistance]] 22:28, 18 March 2006 (EST).

:I thought (a) was the clear implication of "Resurrection Ship, Part I" and "Downloaded" - new Cylon bodies come pre-aged. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:21, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::Those technically weren't new bodies. They are copies, not clones, remember? A "new" body is exactly duplicated from an old one. By definition all will be the same age. So any aging would take place simultaneously across the whole model. Also, Dean Stockwell is ~70 but Cavil can be younger.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:11, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::Are you suggesting there's a stock supply of uninhabited Cylon bodies all aging simultaneously, a la Evangelion? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:54, 18 March 2006 (CST)
::::Er, yes. That is what the Resurrection Ship (and whatever they have on their homeworld) is. My point is that when they make a new uninhabited body it's A Copy, Not A Clone, and thus the same age as the body it was copied from.--[[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 23:41, 18 March 2006 (EST)
:::::Every body in a Cylon model is the same. They are all twins, none is a clone of another. They are made in the resurrection Ship, that was visually implied by the whole stack of Sixes. The Cavils themeselves are proof that they are made the age they look. There are Cavils in pods looking exactly like they do. The "longer than.." comment was needed, he wouldn't say "I've been preaching for two years, since I'm a Cylon.." --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19 March 2006

I removed the statement claiming that the humanoid cylons possibly came into existence thirty years prior to the time period in the show was contradicted by other evidence. It misunderstood the point of the previous statement (which I originally submitted), which does not argue that the infiltration of the colonies began that far back. It only suggests that the humanoid cylons came into being thirty or more years prior to the time of the series assuming Cavil was telling the truth about preaching longer than Tyrol had been sucking down oxygen. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 23:38, 17 August 2006 (CDT)

How do we know Cylons even biologically age? They might have something that prevents that. [[User:Commander Mazien|Commander Mazien]] 18:37, 29 November 2006 (CST)

: Given that Cylon agents and humans are genetically alike, and since cells degrade over time, it would follow that Cylons are capable of aging. After all, life is the quirk that keeps the meat fresh, as it were. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 09:24, 30 November 2006 (CST)

::Not necessarily. Cylons are genetically engineered cyborgs. They might have been built to not age. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 13:57, 2 December 2006 (CST)

:::Indeed, though they are identical to the cellular level, at the molecular level they already start looking different, which leaves room for enough difference between their compositions to make everthing they do, and possibly lack of aging, possible. So it's a possibility that they do no age. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 14:06, 2 December 2006 (CST)

::::I just re-watched "The Eye of Jupiter," and noted that Cavil implied that he and his colleagues had functional immortality; that whether finding Earth took "5 years or 5000," they'd still be around when it was found. --[[User:Panopticon|Panopticon]] 21:17, 15 January 2007 (CST)

:::::Everything has, more or less, an end of life to it. Electronics break down too, though not in the same way humans do. Their immortality could easily occur via the downloading process. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 21:51, 15 January 2007 (CST)

== Cavil "Atheist" ==
It seems in their conversation that they came to a fairly Agnostic, not atheist, conclusion with the line "can't prove it one way or another." Thought? --posted by Xavier101
:No. Athiest. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:13, 28 May 2006 (CDT)

Could be either, but I'm leaning towards atheist. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 22:53, 27 June 2006 (CDT)
:They acknowledged it couldn't be proven but stated that they personally believe there is no God, thus they are atheists. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 11:34, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

Strictly speaking, a 'true' atheist denies the existence of a god or gods and does not concede the possibility that "we just don't know or can't prove it." An agnostic takes the position that we do not know or cannot prove it (presently), but often actually does have a basically atheistic outlook on the universe. My opinion is that, from a purely logical standpoint, Cavil's statements make him an agnostic with an atheistic outlook. Or, in other words, he would concede that he can't REALLY prove it one way or another, but would be willing to lay a substantial wager on the non-existence of god. --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 13:15, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

:I think the fact that Cavil ''always'' used his hands to make quotation marks in the air ''each time'' he said "God" in "Occupation/Precipice" makes it far more likely that he's not at all on the same page as most of the other Cylons. Even undercover as a brother, he flat-out denies the concept. Perhaps more light will be shed in season 3. If a Cavil encounters [[Dodona Selloi]], it would do just that. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:37, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

::You know, along the lines of not being on the same page as other Cylons...you remember that the various models of Cylon were having that discussion in Exodus Part I, and Cavil excused himself from the discussion, ostensibly because his input into it was unnecessary (if I recall correctly.) I interpreted that as Cavil essentially noting to the others that he is in disagreement as to fundamental courses of action with ALL of the other models present at the meeting. You get the same vibe? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 20:01, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

Atheism doesn't deny the existence of a god or gods, atheism is simply the lack of belief in a god or gods. You're thinking of "strong" or "positive atheism" [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:32, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

:That is one definition of the term 'atheism' to be sure, but its most common definition is indeed 'strong' atheism (as you have defined it), just as the most common definition of 'agnostic' implies lack of knowledge (or indeed, as a necessary consequence, a belief) as to same. Just what we mean by having a 'belief' is actually quite hard to define. But, at this point in the discussion, for purposes of probing Cavil's psyche, I think we are talking of distinctions without a difference. ;-) --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 17:52, 20 October 2006 (CDT)

== Sleep Agent ==
Is Galactica Cavil a sleeper agent? I tend to think that he is because he seems to have a fake history and seems that sleepers tend defend themselves strongly when accused of being a cylon. Notice the difference betweem Galactica Cavil and Caprica Cavil in their responses to being accused. I know the Cylon Party comment does weaken the argument. Thoughts? --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 10:48, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
:He wasn't a sleeper Agent as far as we know, in fact the easiness with which he "resumed" his Cylon status indicated that he was aware. The Caprican Cavil accepted it pretty quickly because eventually he planned to tell them, it was why he was there after all. The other Cavil still had his original mission to remain in secret. I take it sleepers normally don't respond well to the whole "Hey, you're a Cylon!" thing, which may be why boxing was invented, and was why Boomer had cuffs when she resurrected. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 11:20 26 June 2006 (CDT)
::In the continuity of the Miniseries novelization, Doral is a sleeper agent and he is discussed in great detail. His realization was like "flipping a switch." I know that doesn't mean much for the series, but I don't think that it is always a hard as Boomer found it. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 11:45, 26 June 2006 (CDT)
I don't really think Cavil was a sleeper, because of how he acted with the Caprica copy. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 18:51, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

== Cavil and Caprica Six Revelations ==
I have a problem with the following statement: "They seem to have discovered many revelations that Caprica-Six realized through her "virtual" Baltar (Downloaded). Judging by this, the Cavil copies are probably among the first to flock to Caprica's banner." I think this amounts to pure speculation, and increasingly, bad speculation as we see that Cavil is (if anything) something of a general misanthrope. At any rate, I think there is no legitimate basis for concluding that Caprica Six and the Cavils share any particular insight or common viewpoint. Thoughts? --[[User:Felix Culpa|Felix Culpa]] 13:08, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

==Number Two?==
Hey, someone pointed out to me that it was edited on wikipedia[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylon_%28Battlestar_Galactica%29#Humanoid_Cylons] that Cavil's number is "Two" and that it was apparently revealed through close cationing. I'm not sure if this is canon, but if someone can tell me more info on this...

I'm assuming it's a mistake, and that whoever posted it confused the close captioning in LDYBII, when it says "Cavil#2" (to differentiate Cavils) and assumed it meant that was his model number, but I do not know.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 16:00, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

:I think that is, as you suspected, an error in captioning context. As well, I don't think that Cavil will sit well with being known as "number two." He's a dark fellow, will nuke your house, put you in front of a firing squad. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 16:14, 24 October 2006 (CDT)

::Amen, brother. But he won't nuke your house, he'll only reduce your family down to a more manageable number, say 2. But that is only after he puts you down with his pesimistic superiority and complains about a headache. {{unsigned|Straycat0}}

:::And it will be done to instill fear into the people's hearts and minds, because as he sees it, fear is a key article of faith. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:03, 26 October 2006 (CDT)

::::Dean Stockwell said, in an interview, that he had been told he was number 2 --[[User:Genome4824|GMo >:M:<]] 21:52, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

:::::No, what he said was -

:::::'''''"I turned out to be number three, Brother Cavil, of the significant seven."'''''

:::::My guess is he meant that he was the third Cylon revealed (since the mini) because the position of "number three" is already occupied. And he's not number 2, that was a mistake on someone, the captioning is not referring to that.--[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:15, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

::'''"Number Two: This is three downloads for me."''' that is the quote from the Captioning for Exodus Part I. I believe that the Evidence he is #2 has been presented. If it saying that on Sci-Fi Channel itself can't be counted as Canon what can? -- [[User:Genome4824|GMo >:M:<]] 22:35, 27 October 2006 (CDT)

:::Well, aside from the fact that my captions don't say that, it's still close captioning, which has proven unreliable before. We can't consider it canon unless revealed in some other manner in which we can be '''sure''' it's not a mistake. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 22:49, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Captions should be taken with a grain of salt, like the 54289/[[Viper 289]] caption from Flight of the Phoenix. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 23:22, 27 October 2006 (CDT)
::::Agreed. Captions when there is two or more people that are the same, usually have #1 and #2. This is an error. Repated edits to indicate Cavil as number two will be considered vandlism under the [[BW:EW]] policy. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 00:37, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

: Can we all agree that it should be added to his page and the [[Portal:Cylons|Cylon Page]] under notes with a link to this discussion page. Not everyone goes right to the Discussion pages. -- [[User:Genome4824|GMo >:M:<]] 10:47, 28 October 2006 (CDT)

[[Rapture]] features additional (but unconclusive) evidence that Cavil may be Number Two:
*Cavil suggests boxing the Threes
*Cavil confronts and almost kills Three in an authoritarian fashion.
*When Three wants to see the Final Five, Cavil says "that can't happen". This could be because, with Number One among the Final Five, he wouldn't want to lose his 'leadership status' when Number One is revealed.
*It is Cavil who boxes the Threes. This may be because he came up with the idea in the first place, or because he represents whatever is left of the Cylons, making him either Two or Four.
It should be noted, however, that Cavil, despite his presumed leadership status, doesn't protest against the majority decision to attack and occupy the Colonies.
::Well, there really isn't any reason to believe their numbers have anything to do with authority, so for now we are still left with the myster of his number. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:56, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:::The model number has no relevance to authority, thats [[w:fanwank|fanwanking]], especially saying that the reason he doesnt want to know who number one is because he would then be second in command. The only evidence so far of the number designation is closed captions. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:32, 24 January 2007 (CST)
::::You are right in saying that it's never been confirmed the model numbers reflect authority. It's just an assumption on my part to even be able to speculate about Cavil's number, since throwing out the authority idea means all options are open and we can't really argue for any number, save for the closed captioning thing. On that count, I've [[Battlestar_Wiki:Official_Communiques#Cavil.27s_number|asked Bradley Thompson]] whether the closed captions are canonical. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:47, 24 January 2007 (CST)
:::::Bradley Thompson has [[BW:OC#Cavil.27s_number|neither confirmed nor denied]] that Cavil is Number Two, but he did shoot down the closed captioning thing. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 14:48, 25 January 2007 (CST)

Number 1?
Here is some logic supporting that he is the earliest of the Cylons that has not been presented here:

*When Cavil is introduced he states that he has been a preacher longer than Tyrol has been breathing. this may suggest that he was the first of (this cycle's?) human-form Cylons. The opportunity is there for him to have been planted into the colonies well before any plan of invasion.
*He is entirely skeptical about the existence of the "One God", but first appears in the resident religion's garb. This would follow a logical step between the belief (by the primitive Cylons [Centurions]) that there are many gods and the Cylon "One God". This is parallel of the progression between Greek and Christian gods being the prevailing theology in western civilization (discounting Roman), which would have occured at the outset of the many new models.
*Caprica Cavil and BSG Cavil discuss the mistake of invading the colonies in the first place. This would suggest a very pragmatic sort of personality, which would be emblematic of a first-generation new model. The first model would not necessarily have yet "evolved" in their new programming of belief in "One God".
:: This personality is repeated throughout the New Caprica occupation and pursuit of Earth in such actions as decimating the human population to "manageable size", making sure the Eye is not destroyed and boxing 3.
:::That's really just the way his model act, but it doesn't tell us anything about their number. We don't know whether they were built at the same time or whether the numbers actually mean anything. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 06:47, 31 January 2007 (CST)
::::When you consider that [[Number Six]] was named as a homage to [[w:The Prisoner|The Prisoner]] i'd be very wary about giving meaning to the numbers. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 07:44, 31 January 2007 (CST)

==Main Image==
Hey, I have been thinking on Cavil's main image for a while, though I like the present one, I've been trying to find out perhaps new images that show him as looking more, I don't know, active or something, but I'm not sure. There are 3 candidates, including the current one, so what do you think.

Which of these is better as a main image?

<gallery>
Image:Cavilo.jpg|Picture 1
Image:Brotha.jpg|Picture 2
Image:Brotha3.jpg|Picture 3
</gallery>

Thank you for your opinions. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 00:01, 19 December 2006 (CST)

:2. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 12:45, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:Actually, I like the picture of the Executioner Cavil with the black hat in the article. Sadistic bastard he is, although 3 is OK. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:55, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:Ditto with Spenc. [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 15:13, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::You mean the Promo from LDYBII? I actually edited one to fit in main image, Here it is:

::<gallery>
Image:-1Cavil.jpg|Picture4
</gallery>

::What do you think? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 15:31, 19 December 2006 (CST)
:::Nope. Try the one on the main article in the New Caprica Copy section. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:08, 19 December 2006 (CST)
::::Hmm...well that was the old one, but I remember it looked a bit....odd. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 23:02, 19 December 2006 (CST)

<gallery>
Image:Pensieve One.jpg
</gallery>

With the recent airing of the S3 premiere on SkyOne HD, we have more options available. One in particular caught my eye(the one right above). What do you think about it? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 20:18, 15 January 2007 (CST)
:Thoughts? If you still prefer the promo from LDYBII, then we'll put that one, but I'm trying to find a shot of him that shows more of his features and such. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:12, 26 January 2007 (CST)

=="Keeper of Secrets"==
In the "Rapture" podcast, RDM said he liked the idea of Cavil being like a keeper of secrets for the Cylons, one who knew more than the others about the Final Five and such. The episode did give me that feel, and it seems to me like he had seriousley intended to give that impression. So I'm thinking, should we include it in the notes section or something? --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 19:12, 26 January 2007 (CST)

Has RDM given any explantion about how Cavil just appears out of nowhere, first on Caprica in lay down your birdens, he just sort of ppaears outof nowhere spouting the cylons have gone home and everyone just accepts it. he wasn't a human that came with tyhe rescue team. Then in Rapture Deanna and Baltar go down to the planet alone, and there at the pivotal hour there he is with Deanna and Baltar when they first get intothe temple, then he's gone again when the "device" activates.

There is something very odd and evil about Cavil, his atheism sounds more like a speech from Lucifer discrediting god. Granted I am abit obsessed withthe relation bebtween the cylons, the lords of kobol and Abrehamic religions. The interplay is everywhere. I've notice this sight has jumped on the idea that the "jealous god" and the "one whose name cannot be spoken" are one and the same, and perhaos the Cylon God. Why would the human then have such reverence for the temple of Five and those five priests, if they were folowers of an evil god. If I'm not mistaken isn't the name
"Yahweh" or "Jahovah" sort of not supposed to be spoken?

My point being Cavil's synicism can no more be taken at face value than anything else in the series.--[[User:Mevenstar|Mevenstar]] 02:44, 22 February 2007 (CST)

*He doesn't appear out of nowhere. On Rapture he went down with Baltar and D'Anna and a Leoben (though the scene with them was deleted), on LDYBII it's not really surprising that he just found his way to the group, or maybe even had been with them for a while now. --[[User:Sauron18|Sauron18]] 07:02, 22 February 2007 (CST)

*Furthermore, in LDYB, Starbuck&Co. would think Cavil was just another member of the resistance they hadn't met yet, while Anders&Co. would think he was part of the rescue party. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]] 09:31, 22 February 2007 (CST)

Are edited scenes 100% legit? I mean when Deanna was heading down to tthe algae planet it was clear she was acting alone, where was cavil when Deanna hasd the vision or when Six told Baltar she wasn't the chosen one?Anders thought he was part part of the rescue party and Starbuck thought he was part of the resistence?--[[User:Mevenstar|Mevenstar]] 03:18, 20 March 2007 (CDT)
:Like Sauron said before, the [[Podcast:Rapture|podcast]] for "[[Rapture]]" says there were more scenes showing Baltar, D'Anna, Cavil and a Leoben going down to the planet. Unfortunately, there were cut, which makes it seem like Cavil appeared out of nowhere and Leoben wasn't even there. The part about Starbuck and Anders refers to [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|LDYB II]], when no one noticed Cavil had suddenly joined them. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 09:25, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
::It's quite possible that Cavil was with the resistance from the beginning. In the podcast for 'The Farm', Moore indicates that the Cylons knew of Starbuck and Anders' relationship through a spy. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 18:03, 18 March 2008 (CDT)

== White space ==

There's a big fat load of white space at the top of the article, and I can't see how to get rid of it. Any ideas? (probably due to a template) [[User:OTW|OTW]] 15:38, 12 April 2007 (CDT)
:{{tl|quality candidate}} was guilty, fixed it. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 06:24, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
::Yeah, that would be the culprit. You'll need to put it ''after'' the category tags on any page so that whitespace problem isn't produced. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 06:48, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
:::Blame the template. Lame excuse. :-D [[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:28, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

Number One

2008-04-11T16:16:51Z

LicensedLunacy: Revealed in 4x02.

{{Character Data
|photo=Pensieve One.jpg
|age=
|colony=
|birthname=
|callsign=
|seen= Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=
|marital status=
|role= Cylon infiltrator, lay clergy
|rank=
|actor= [[Dean Stockwell]]
|cylon= y
|name= Cavil ?
}}
'''Cavil''' is a [[humanoid Cylon]] who, prior to being discovered, posed as a [[Religion in the Twelve Colonies#The Clergy|Brother]], a member of the Colonial clergy.

While other humanoid Cylons have a number associated with their model, such as [[Number Six]] and [[Number Three]], the number designation for the Cavil model is One.
==''Galactica'' Copy==

On ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'', the first viewed copy of Brother Cavil provides counsel for [[Galen Tyrol|Chief Tyrol]] after Tyrol's maddened attack against [[Cally Tyrol|Cally Henderson]]. Cavil identifies the source of Tyrol's anxiety as arising from the fear that he could be a [[Humanoid Cylon|Cylon sleeper agent]]. This Cavil seems to be personally very familiar with Tyrol and is apparently aware that Henderson harbors romantic feelings for him ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). (Later analysis of Cavil's nature, from behavior in season 3 episodes, suggests that Cavil's comments were aimed to incite torment in Tyrol.)

A somewhat eccentric figure, Cavil is a surprisingly harsh critic of prayer for a Brother, but claims to have been preaching "longer than you [[Tyrol]] have been sucking down oxygen" ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]). This interesting claim, if true, implies that the [[humanoid Cylon]]s came into existence no later than approximately ten years after the end of the [[First Cylon War]] (assuming that Tyrol is approximately 30 years old). Cavil's remark, based on aired information and his true nature, is unlikely.

Despite his cynicism, Cavil prays with [[Laura Roslin]] for her re-election to the presidency to be successful. When Tyrol deduces the Caprica copy of him as a Cylon, Cavil is thrown in the brig along with his copy. He is later ejected through an airlock along with his copy (deleted scene). Due to the loss of the [[Resurrection Ship]], his death is presumed to be final ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]).

==Caprica Copy==
[[Image:Cyca2.jpg|left|thumb|Caprican Cavil]]
A second copy of this model emerges from the crew of resistance members rescued by the Caprica [[SAR]] team, telling them that the Cylons had left the Colonies. What he does not tell them — until Tyrol blew his cover upon his arrival at ''Galactica'' — is that he is a Cylon.

Due to this copy's discovery, the Fleet copy is arrested as well and thrown in ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'''s brig. Laura Roslin orders them ejected into space after Caprica-Cavil informs her and Admiral Adama that the Cylons had made two mistakes: the attack on the Colonies and the pursuit of the [[the Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]). Due to the loss of the Resurrection Ship, his death is presumed to be final. Though their execution is not shown, a later conversation indicates that they were executed ([[List of Deleted Scenes (RDM)#Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|deleted scene]]).

Like his Fleet counterpart, the Caprica copy also expresses doubt in the active involvement of divine forces in the real world, although he focuses his contempt on the Cylon religion. He says that "There is no [[God (RDM)|God]]", something that the Cavils have been telling the other Cylons for years, though he acknowledges that God's existence or nonexistence can't actually be proven. Based on his conversation with the Fleet copy, this viewpoint appears to be shared between at least these two copies, and possibly across the entire model.

==New Caprica Copies==
[[Image:Cavz.jpg|thumb|right|A Cavil on New Caprica]]

At least two copies of Cavil are present in the invasion fleet on New Caprica, as seen in "[[Occupation]]" and "[[Precipice]]." They have some authority over humans in detainment, as [[Ellen Tigh]] is able to use sexual favors to bribe another into releasing [[Saul Tigh]]. This may have been a self-serving ruse, because after a second sexual encounter, Cavil says to her of Saul, "When's his next meeting with the insurgents?" and "We know he's their leader - why do you think we let him out of detention?" Ellen replies, "I thought it was because of the 'twist'", referring to a sex act, and Cavil says, "Oh, yes, that too."

Two copies are also involved in the Cylon leaders' discussions such as whether to kill [[Gaius Baltar]].

Another copy also acts as a type of liaison between the [[New Caprica Police|NCP]] and their Cylon masters. He gives [[Jammer]] the list of Colonials to detain, and later accompanies the NCP to the site of a mass execution of Colonial Detainees ([[Occupation]]).

The NCP liaison version is critically wounded during an attack by the Resistance movement. Cavil is left with a bullet wound to the stomach and is left to die after the detainees are liberated. Cavil resorts to suicide by severing his [[w:carotid artery|carotid artery]] with a spent casing. He [[Resurrection (RDM)|downloads]] into a new body for the third time; an experience that, as he explains, is similar to having a white hot poker slammed through his skull ([[Exodus, Part I]]).

Shortly before her death, [[Ellen Tigh]] descibes the Cavil copy she seduced as the one "in charge" of the Detention Facility ([[Exodus, Part II]]).

==Basestar Command Copies==
[[Image:CavHap2.jpg|thumb||left|Cylon Diplomat]]
After the Cylon fleet arrives at the [[algae planet]], a Cylon negotiation team negotiates a meeting on ''Galactica'', which consists of [[Gaius Baltar]], [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]], a [[Number Three]], and a Cavil copy. Cavil ad-libs during the discussion, personally suggesting that the Cylons will hand over Baltar to the Colonials as part of the negotiation ("to sweeten the pot").

Later, a Cavil (likely the same one) argues that they should destroy ''Galactica'' now and be rid of them for good. He thinks it does not matter if the Cylons find [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]] in five days or five thousand years, saying that they can last forever, whereas the Colonials can't. He then determines Admiral Adama's claim that he will nuke the temple is a bluff even as ''Galactica'' preps its missile launchers ([[The Eye of Jupiter]]).

Another copy greets Number Three when she resurrects on a Resurrection Ship and informs her of the decision to box her model. She replies that someday he will know the truth of the [[Final Five]] like she does just before he removes the device storing her consciousness. Other Cavils are shown boxing other Number Three's all over the room in the Resurrection Ship ([[Rapture]]).
<div style="clear: both;"></div>

==Analysis==
The Cavils appear to be very radical thinkers, and demonstrate a unity among the model not seen in any other. Copies appear to have a well-developed sense of sardonic humor and are given to making jokes in even the most awkward, dangerous, and heightened circumstances ("[[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]", "[[Occupation]]", "[[Precipice]]"). They seem to have discovered many revelations that [[Caprica-Six]] realized through her "virtual" Baltar ([[Downloaded]]). Judging by this, the Cavil copies were probably among the first to flock to Caprica-Six's banner.

In "[[Occupation]]" and "[[Precipice]]", the Cavils are the most ''outwardly'' ruthless and cruel to humans. The Cavils are [[w:sadism|sadistic]], appearing to take pleasure (or at least a noticeable level of amusement) in their own acts of psychological and physical cruelty. The Cavils like toying with the idea of liquidating the human population on New Caprica as a solution to the Resistance, to "Perhaps a more manageable number. Say, less than a thousand."

Viewers can infer (correctly or not) from the New Caprica detention scene between a Cavil and [[Saul Tigh]] that a Cavil is significantly involved in the brutal, months-long interrogation (in response to Tigh's attacks against the Cylons). In conversation with the other Cylons, Cavils are vocal and callous proponents of harsh measures against the [[New Caprica Resistance]] and are strong advocates of mass executions.

It is ironic that the first two known copies of this apparently [[w:Atheism|atheistic]] or [[w:Agnosticism|agnostic]] model pose as lay clergy. This may be an intentional mockery of religion on their part, or a mockery of the Cavils by whomever assigned them their roles as infiltrators.

With the Cylons apparently occupying [[New Caprica]] at the end of the [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II|episode]], it appears that the Cavils on ''Galactica'' are either lying about the Cylon change of heart or the Cylon plans changed after the second Cavil was captured on ''Galactica''.

In "[[Exodus, Part I]]", it is learned that at least one Cavil unit, the leader of the execution squad intercepted by the Resistance and who died there (his third death), experienced increasing head pain with each resurrection.

==Notes==

*Despite waging constant attacks against the Cylons for nine months, the [[Caprica Resistance]] seemingly had never before encountered a Cavil model prior to their rescue.

*The word ''cavil'' is a noun and verb involving an irrelevant or trivial point made during an argument or discussion; synonyms include ''quibble'' and ''carp.'' ([http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cavil Dictionary Reference])

{{Characters}}

[[Category:A to Z|Cavil]]
[[Category:Characters|Cavil]]
[[Category:Characters (RDM)|Cavil]]
[[Category:Recurring Guest Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category:Cylons|Cavil]]
[[Category:Cylons (RDM)|Cavil]]
[[Category:RDM|Cavil]]

{{quality candidate}}

[[de:Cavil]]
[[fr:Cavil]]