Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Exodus, Part I/Archive 1

2006-10-27T04:14:45Z

Kravotran: continuity error

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0610/01/index.htm
Click on this link and scroll down to see scenes from the Exodus episodes. My favorite is the last one at the bottom which shows Zarek and Roslin plsticuffed together. Hopefully they'll start to get along soon. --ltcrashdown October 3rd, 2006

== Jammer's future ==
The blurp in the notes section "According to Ronald Moore's podcast, in earlier drafts Jammer was going to die during the shootout at the execution site. However, he decided that the character would be used in later episodes of the season." I was thinking maybe this should be blocked in a spoiler warning box so you have to highlight it to see it because it hints to future events. I'm not sure though. Opinions?--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 16:17, 15 October 2006 (CDT)
: I agree. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:36, 15 October 2006 (CDT)

== Recent edits and removals ==

I went through the questions, rephrasing any that were written like a conversation in the article, concising and truncating the rest. Here are particularly notable changes.

#As Ron Moore answered the question of the side-effects of repeated downloads by Cylons, further questions on this aren't needed.
#There are many copies of [[Leoben Conoy]]. While the copy with Kara Thrace is very likely the consciousness seen in "[[Flesh and Bone]]," we can only assume that the side-effects of repeated downloads occurs over many, many times. It is also possible (but unsourced) that ALL Leobens have the common objective to "court" Thrace. Because the question about Leoben's stability after downloads was ambiguous, I removed it.
#We cannot really speculate the WHAT the connection is to Number Three-the-dreamer and to [[Selloi]] and the Lords of Kobol, only that there certainly IS some kind of connection as evidenced by Selloi's comments to her, right down to her relaying of the message from the Kobollian gods to Three's God.
#Cottle is not an Earth physician. While it is likely that the Colonials have had a counterpart to the Hippocratic Oath, the phrase "do no harm" isn't relevant to this universe, so I adjusted it to a more generic wording.

Don't take my adjustments as the last word. If there are further questions based on aired information, do contribute again.

--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:23, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

*Regarding your point 1, RDM didn't go into great detail into the nature of the side-effects. It is a worthy question line because some people may want to know more than "there may be adverse consequences to repeated downloads" (Not an exact quote, just general) and the line of questioning is fruitful. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 15:36, 16 October 2006 (CDT)

== Captain Kelly ==

I already thought I was hallucinating ;) I thought it was Kelly, but didn't really think that they'd go to the trouble of getting the actor back for such a tiny reaction shot. Good to know that someone else saw it too. 
It also makes sense that they'd put such a relatively high-ranking officer on bridge duty when he isn't working as LSO --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 13:18, 18 October 2006 (CDT)

== Gunnery Sgt Mathias ==

Having watched the ep a few times, I've got a few thoughts regarding [[Mathias|Gunny Mathias]].

1. First off, is she one of ''Pegasus''' onboard company? She doesn't look familiar to ''Galactica'', and [[Hadrian]]'s reputedly the seniormost Marine onboard the latter ship. My guess is the former rather than the latter, but it's never stated.

2. This one ties into 1: considering the above, why is she so (relatively) friendly with Sharon? There might be some leeway if she stood Brig duty and got to know Sharon, but then that would prove contrary to the Hadrian issue, not to mention that it's highly unlikely someone as senior as a Gunnery Sgt would be standing brig duty. OTOH, if she's a Marine from ''Pegasus'', she obviously should have a marked level of disgust about taking orders from a "skinjob". Granted, military professionalism and bearing might play a role in overriding that disgust, but Sharon's nature as a Cylon can't be denied, regardless of what side she's on. Additionally, she may have been posted to brig watch while Sharon was in ''Pegasus''' brig, but again, there's the rank vs. watchstanding issue.

Just a few thoughts on this one. I'm strongly tempted to pose this question on the front, but it seems to me more of a gaffe or error of omission that RDM & co. made rather than something deliberate.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 00:02, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

:Mitsukai, you are better off posing these rather intelligent questions to Bradley Thompson on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques]] page. He is always very generous in answering very technical questions like this. --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:23, 19 October 2006 (CDT)
::Thanks. Took the questions there.--[[User:Mitsukai|み使い]] ''[[User_talk:Mitsukai|Mitsukai]]'' 00:31, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

== Son? ==

When Dualla and Helo were talking to each other when the operation was prepping up Dualla said, "Take care of the Admiral for me," which Helo responded with, "Take care of our ____" I swear to all the gods, that I thought she said son. Did anyone else hear that?
:"Take care of '''his''' son." The admiral's son. It's just a little unclear. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:18, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

== continuity error ==

The scene of Cally running from the execution site is obviously an alternate take from the one seen at the end of Precipice. In Precipice, Cally is still running when we hear the sound of gunfire and she turns around. In Exodus, Cally apparently runs away without any help from Jammer and Tyrol pulls her to the ground before the sound of gunfire.

Talk:List of Comics/Archive 1

2006-10-20T03:41:00Z

Kravotran:

The Wikipedia article on Battlestar Galactica comics is much more detailed than this one. -- {{unsigned|Kravotran}}
: In regards to [[w:Battlestar Galactica (comic book)|the Wikipedia article]], we do have individual pages for each comic book, so the info is segmented (and thus the main article is smaller). After all, our page is called a "List of Comics", which does its job with links to each subsequent comic. Granted, the stuff about the old comics on the WP page is interesting -- but I have a serious problem with it. After a brief review of the article, a majority of it doesn't seem to be very well sourced even by [[w:WP:CITE|Wikipedia's standards]]; the only two links of notable reference are in regards to the comics for the re-imagined series. Of course, I don't say that to disparage anyone, but as a constructive criticism. So if you feel that the info is lacking, then by all means feel free to add any information necessary, as long as it is [[BW:CJ|cited]] from reliable sources. :-) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 06:50, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

The Realm Press comics do exist. I've seen them at a local comics store although I haven't bought any yet.--[[User:Kravotran|Kravotran]] 22:41, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:List of Comics/Archive 1

2006-10-19T11:07:21Z

Kravotran:

The Wikipedia article on Battlestar Galactica comics is much more detailed than this one.

Talk:Pegasus (Extended Version)/Archive 1

2006-10-18T07:12:36Z

Kravotran:

I had initially thought this could be a subsection on "[[Pegasus (episode)]]", but I think our analysis of all of the material in Pegasus: Extended Version would run so long, on the already long "Pegasus" article page, that we should pre-emptively set it up as a separate episode page. More on this when the DVD comes out. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 04:07, 6 August 2006 (CDT)

Just noticed that there's an own page for it. I'll go ahead an do a chronological list of the changes first.
This might take a few hours --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:12, 14 September 2006 (CDT)

Ok, I made a chronological list that should include just about everything important. I had the episode running on my computer and compared it with a transcript of the original version and in some cases with a video file of it. There might be some tiny things missing, but probably nothing big. 
I also included a bit of analysis on how some scenes change the episode, a few quotes, and I removed the redundant "official comments" that listed some of those scenes. 
English isn't my native tongue, so you might want to check it for errors in spelling and grammar. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:39, 14 September 2006 (CDT)
:Looks good. Some others will do that spelling and grammar. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 08:42, 14 September 2006 (CDT)

About that edit in "questions": "* Sharon being actually raped makes her nearly catatonic state in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]" more believable." 
Actually I did mean "RS, Part '''One'''. The scene between her Cottle and Adama where Adama apologizes. Not the one where Tyrol and Helo visit her in the cell or the Adama/Sharon conversation. She was a bit more lively there 
I admit though, that the interpretation is subjective and other people might see it different. For me her breaking down and crying immediately after the rape fits more with it being carried out than attempted. Interestingly, there is one fragment in RS where Helo says "attempt" (to Fisk) while the rest the episodes treat it more like it really happened. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:19, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
:She was in a state of shock, not catatonia, in part I. In part II she was more catatonic-like (sitting in a corner and blankly playing with a pillow) until she saw Helo. Her immediate crying in Pegasus and her shock in part 1 are consistent with attempted as well as actual rapes. [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 10:10, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
::Yeah, catatonia is probably too strong a word. How about saying "her state of shock" then, and linking to both episodes? --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:23, 16 September 2006 (CDT)
:::That entire note seemed so wrong-headed and offensive that I removed it. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:24, 29 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Maybe it doesn't really make it more believable, but I stand by my opinion that it makes Adama's and Cottle's reaction more powerful and meaningful. Sharon should probably be shocked at attempted rape too, but just staring blankly ahead seemed a bit much for what happened. I think that scene was written/filmed with the full version in mind --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:03, 30 September 2006 (CDT)
::::I found the note insightful. Can you please clarify the nature of your objection? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:43, 30 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::I agree with it being insightful. And visit to [[BW:CIV]] wouldn't hurt. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 21:28, 30 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::As mentioned earlier, Sharon's behavior is "consistent with attempted as well as actual rapes". The note seems to imply that as long as the rapist doesn't actually succeed in penetrating his victim, the victim has no right to be traumatized by the attack. I find that offensive and ignorant. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:04, 30 September 2006 (CDT)
::::::I can certainly understand that, and I expressed a similar sentiment at [[Talk:Scar#Did they do it?]] concerning Kara and Lee's (consensual) hook-up. That being said, it is foolish to suppose that an attempted rape has the same psychological consequences as an actual one. I do not believe that making this distinction implicitly dismisses Sharon's "right to be traumatized" in the absence of penetration. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:17, 30 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::::The distinction is more than adequately made already. Sharon's behavior in this and other episodes is also perfectly consistent with either version of events. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 00:29, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
::::::::I think we need to be clear that we're talking about a performance, not an actual event. Grace Park obviously played Sharon's response to the assault knowing that her character had been raped. The scene was then cut. If an audience member feels that, with the wider context afforded by the extended version, her performance is more consistant, this is a perfectly natural and valid observation to make. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:09, 2 October 2006 (CDT)

From what I've gathered, both versions were actually filmed separately with the intent to decide later which cut to include in the final episode, so Grace Park didn't actually know whether her character was, in fact, raped or not until final cut. Her performance was perfectly consistent with either version of events. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 17:02, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:I don't believe this is the case - the TV version just cuts away earlier. Additionally, as Brad Thompson [[Battlestar_Wiki:Official_Communiques/Archive04#Pegasus_.28Extended_Version.29|stated]], "In the case of Pegasus, we always assumed the long version happened and we wrote as if you all had seen it, too". --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:41, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
::And I recall cast interviews stating otherwise. Not that this should even be an issue here. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 01:17, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:::I'm also sick of this argument. Are you interested in suggesting some kind of compromise wording? Otherwise, I'm just going to reinstate Serenity's comment. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 02:09, 5 October 2006 (CDT)
:::I recall interviews where people - especially Grace Park - stated that it was shot like in the full version, but edited down later on request of the network. That's also clear when you compare the scenes. The extened version doesn't just add material that was shot seperately. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:05, 5 October 2006 (CDT)

I don't think there can be a compromise here. Either it stays out, or we issue a blanket insult to millions of victims of sexual assault. Your call. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 07:44, 8 October 2006 (CDT)

== Canon? ==

Which version of the rape scene is considered canon? Is the regular version an alternate take or is it just edited?{{unsigned|Kravotran}}

:Welcome, Kravotran. That's a good question. Unless I'm mistaken, the attempted rape is canonical since it was aired. This extended version article exists to discuss the other scenes that were not shown on the air but on the DVD release only. We treat deleted scenes as canonical unless aired content or retroactive continuity adjustments are made by the writers that conflicts with the deleted scenes. The scene, while not canonical, is quite more dramatic.

:By the way, be sure to sign your comments. You can use the next-to-last button on the editing toolbar, or type in four tildes <nowiki>(--~~~~)</nowiki> to do it. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:32, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

::Leaving aside my deep hatred for the c-word, the producers said that they considered the Extended Version to have really happened. Even when it wasn't released yet. I can't find the interview or quote now though, because it's been a while. This isn't just a case of deleted scenes anyways --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:16, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

:::I believe Bradley Thompson said it on [[BW:OC]], that the writing room operates as if every scene that was shot actually happened. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 08:34, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

::::So the jury considers it canonical, which is a [[retroactive continuity|retcon]] from the aired version. From here, I figure, its a matter of taste. I like that the writers want to keep the story consistent; a rare but pleasant matter in running a show. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:00, 17 October 2006 (CDT)
::::[[Battlestar_Wiki:Official_Communiques/Archive04#Pegasus_.28Extended_Version.29]] <-- Link --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 10:04, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

I haven't had a chance to actually see the extended version of Pegasus. The way I understand it, the aired version of the scene would be canonical, since it's the version that everybody saw. So the extended version scene would only be canon if it's consistent with the aired version, which is why I asked whether the aired scene used alternate footage or whether it just edited out the bits showing Sharon being raped. So which is it?--[[User:Kravotran|Kravotran]] 02:12, 18 October 2006 (CDT)Kravotran

Talk:Pegasus (Extended Version)/Archive 1

2006-10-18T07:11:55Z

Kravotran:

Talk:Pegasus (Extended Version)/Archive 1

2006-10-17T11:45:14Z

Kravotran: Canon?