Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:The Passage/Archive 1

2006-12-11T19:22:09Z

Kidsafe: /* Boxey? */

== I cried ==
When I watched the episode tonight, I cried at the end. It was a really sad ending. If an episode makes me cry, that means ''it'' was '''really''' good. --[[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 00:31, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:I was just left in shock. What a way to die...and to do it knowingly while saving a civilian ship... [[User:Xenophon10k|Xenophon10k]] 07:46, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:You weren't the only one, Shane. You weren't the only one. Note to Self: When an episode summary says "we'll learn more about a character in this episode," prepare for mourning. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:42, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::I love Kat, I also shed a tear. :'( --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 12:14, 9 December 2006 (CST)

== Tether? ==

Why didn't Galactica just tether the Raptors to their ships? Or use the magnetic clamps that Raptors have to literally attach to the ships? They wouldn't lose any ships, it would save time, and be safer all at the same time. - [[User:Linaf|Linaf]] 09:21, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Jumping is precise, but not that precise. We don't know if a Jump between tethered ships, if they didn't occur simultaneously, would be a fatal move, or do nothing. In any case, the intense heat and buffeting in the cloud would likely make a tether snap or melt and be worthless. Magnetic clamping might have been possible given that Vipers that perform combat landings hold themselves fast within Galactica. However, performing a Jump while ''outside'' of another ship (which is also Jumping) is probably a Bad Idea. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:06, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Likely for the same reason Galactica has to close flight pods: Each ship's ftl drive is only capable of allowing it to jump, dragging a raptor along likely is no more possible the for galactica to jump with deployed flight pods. --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 21:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

I'm sorry but this part of the story still doesn't make sense to me. Why did the raptors have to be outside of the ships to give them jump coordinates? If radiation would fry the civilian ship computers why not simply park a raptor in their landing bays and let their computers do the work.--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 20:15, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Likely because the Raptor's sensors cant operate from inside a metal, radiation shielded landing bay... They werent designed for that type of use. Also, it may be very likely that many ships lack a landing bay, instead relying on airlocks to connect to other ships. --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 21:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

:It still doesn't make sense to me. Why not weld the raptor directly to the out hull of the civilian ships? If the rapter's computers are so well shielded why not just wrap the computers of the civilian ships in protective armour. Clearly the jump computers are small enough to be contained in a small rapter so the amount of material necessary to harden them couldn't be all that much

::Simple answer: it wouldn't have been very dramatic from a storytelling point of view, would it? The fact that the civilian ships relied on the Raptors and their pilots- who, clearly, are fallible- increases the tension exponentially. It hits our characters that bit harder when ships are lost, because they feel it is their fault. By giving the civilian ships the same capabilities of the Raptors, you take away the whole point of having the episode :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 12:18, 10 December 2006 (CST)

:: Dramatic presentations aside, many civilian ships could have carried a Raptor in their cargo hull until after the first jump. Then they could launch their Raptor and make the second jump. Colonial One, a ship actually small enough to land in Galactica's landing bay, is shown with a Raptor in it's hull during the mini-series. Colonial One also rescued Apollo's Viper when he had an emergency. [[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 18:38, 10 December 2006 (CST)

==Did Kat Die?==
I know this is a stupid question but why did starbuck a picture of her in the memorial hall? Snorkel378
:Yes, she died because she received a twice-fatal dose of radiation --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:10, 9 December 2006 (CST)

Then WHy did Adama Still MAke Her CAG? WHo would make someone who is dead Be A CAG. And We never saw her die. snorkel378
:It's glaringly obvious that she died. We didn't need to see her last breath to know it. She received two fatal doses. She was dying in sickbay. Kara gave her pills if she wanted to comitt suicide, because dying from radiation poisoning is extremly ugly.
:The promotion is a honorary and morale thing. It was merely posthumous, but Apollo is still the acting CAG. Adama thought that Kat's leadership and bravery are a good example for the crew --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:19, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Kat does die; there is no way for her to survive extreme radiation poisoning. However, the show's writers do not show this to enhance the drama of the moment. (Oh, Snorkel, to make an automatic signature, place four tilde characters (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) at the end of your entry.) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:24, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::I'd say it's better that we didn't see her actual death. Death scenes ''can'' a clicé if not done right. Just showing its impact on the other character was far better and more effective IMO --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:27, 9 December 2006 (CST)

U guys know that this is a thery, we would have to ask the writer. Come on what if she is still insickbay some later episode in rehab? then waht would you guys say. OO and KAra gave Kat Skin rebuilds she even said that in the scene. So u might be alive but we should not be so quick to say she died because there is no ground proof. Snorkel378 P.S. i dont give a damn about an automatic signature
:She gave her an overdose of sleeping pills. And I haven't listened to the podcast yet, but it probably "confirms" her death --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:37, 9 December 2006 (CST)

::Yep, the podcast confirms that Kat died. Just got done listening. And Snorkel, there's no need to get ratty, we just try to help :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:41, 9 December 2006 (CST)

:While the podcast does make it explicit, the story as aired makes it clear.
:* We're told that flying after the tag turns black is lethal. Kat's turns black twice
:* Kara gives her "sleeping pills ... enough"
:* When Adama tells Kat he's promoting her, she asks him herself if he knows that she's not making it out of sick bay. He does.
:* Kat isn't present when her promotion is announced. This would only happen if not only she wasn't available at the time but she never would be. If she will recover, you wait until she can be present.
:* Finally, Starbuck posts her picture on the memory wall.
:So, the answer to the question "Why did Starbuck put her picture on the wall?" is "so the audience would know that she died".
:What makes the show so appealing to me is the quality of the writing. They take the time to tell the story through the character interaction, the emotional moments. They could have had her die on screen when she collapsed and made it explicit. But instead, they write it more powerfully. --[[User:Brons|Brons]] 11:45, 9 December 2006 (CST)

::Excellent points, Brons. Another example of writing that sets BSG above other shows. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:49, 9 December 2006 (CST)

She was A good Character, Snorkel378

:Agreed. She was one of my favourite characters :( --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:37, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::Poor Kat :( *wipes away tears* --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 12:07, 9 December 2006 (CST)

No doubt, Kat's dead. All the reasons above. The wall is a memorial for those who are dead, not those who are sick. And it was even in the news a former Russian spy just got wacked (assasinated by Russia) a couple weeks ago with just a small dose of radiation. Most people don't realize how dangerous radiation is because we don't deal with it on a day-to-day basis, but just a little bit can kill you. I feel that all those pilots were getting more than a small dose, other than just Kat. There could be reprocutions for all of them in the future as their health deteriorates over time.

Kat dying in this way, they could have nixed the B side story to flesh out her story. Kat was a very compelling character and her going out, well, the whole D'Anna dying over-and-over thing and the Baltar 3-way is getting boring and tedious so they could have spent more time with the Kat story. Even thus, They still did a good job of making a dramatic finish even if the story could have used a few more details.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 13:01, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:The Baltar and Three storyline is neither boring nor tedious and had only four short scenes in this episode. -- [[User:Noneofyourbusiness|Noneofyourbusiness]] 14:18, 9 December 2006 (CST)
::That's all opinion. Everybody's entitled to their own. But I wanted to see more of the Kat storyline and I felt the B side D'Anna story was getting in the way.--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:28, 10 December 2006 (CST)

What if they Findsome healing artifact do u think they would bring her back along with others? Snorkel378
:This isn't Star Trek. When people are dead they are dead. Just like in real life. Only the Cylons cheat death --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 15:40, 10 December 2006 (CST)

== Anti-Radiation Meds ==

Part of the summary here suggests that there were no anti-rad doses to go around for any of the pilots. I thought that at some were given to the skeleton crews of the civilian ships. Am I right on this one? [[User:Steel viper|Steel viper]] 18:38, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:RDM mentioned in the podcast that the cockpits of the civilian ships might be the most heavily shielded areas. That makes sense to save some money. So the crew could have been shielded, but not the rest of the ship --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 05:30, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Perhaps this section should be titled just radiation rather than anti-radiation meds. I'm not sure why the returning rapters & pilots were subject to decontamination washing. I was under the impression the cluster had intense radiation because of so many stars so close together....not because it was filled with radioactive material. A ship inside the cluster would be exposed to intense radiation but as soon as it jumped out it would be fine. I've read the neutron bombs feed metal an intense amount of neutron s and metal objects like tanks could give off residual radiation up to two weeks after exposure. But washing wouldn't solve the problem. The 'hot' ships would have to be put aside until they cooled down.--[[User:Boonton|Boonton]] 20:22, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:I think that they were just trying to show that there was a decontamination process without getting into the real nitty-gritty details of it all. I would have preferred that they showed a little bit more realistic portrayal of a radiation decontamination, but at the same time I understand at this point in the season, they do cut corners where they can to recoup costs encured by the season opener. All this stuff isn't free and the research, props and everything... --[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 00:32, 10 December 2006 (CST)

== Fourth squadron leader ==

As we saw at the end of this episode, ''Galactica'' has four squadrons of pilots under the command of CAG. The squadron leaders were (before Kat's death, of course): Starbuck, Kat, Two Times and... Did anyone notice who was the fourth? -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 20:44, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:Two Times was the name of the third squad leader? Could only make out the word "Times" :) You've got better eyes then I do.
::It was Ricky "Two Times" Richardson. I'm currently completely updating the List of Pilots page. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:18, 9 December 2006 (CST)
:::I saw Richardson too but missed Ricky and Two Times. Does anyone have this episode yet on iTunes?--[[User:Straycat0|Straycat0]] 01:02, 10 December 2006 (CST)
::::I don't think that the camera ever pans over to where we can see the 4th leader. I got the ep on iTunes, but I have a season pass.
:::::I do too, it doesn't pan over to the first squadron, but judging by the fact that Showboat is in the fourth squadron, it has to be another Captain, maybe Stinger. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 06:47, 10 December 2006 (CST)

==Jupiter = Zeus==
I had the closed caption on and found it interesting that "Jupiter" was replaced by "Zeus". I was going to make post this as a note, but then I figured it would get shot down... because I have confidence issues. But still, this makes the debate over what the "Eye of Jupiter" is interesting (I'm leaning toward the god, not planet). Also, I got the impression from Three's line about "their gods and ours" that this is some kind of acknowledgement of Roman mythology? Or did I understand that wrong? --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 08:59, 10 December 2006 (CST)

:It's not the first mention of Roman gods. We also have Mercury and Mars. The Eye of Jupiter is some kind of artifact they'll find down on the planet --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:03, 10 December 2006 (CST)

:: Maybe we're wrong, but my friends and I thought that the dialog implied that Jupiter was a separate entity from Zeus. Was it ever stated that the Lord of Kobol Hera was like the Greek Goddess, wife of Zeus and all that? It sounds like Hera isn't married to Zeus, but is married to another god named Jupiter.

:: Personally, I suspect that what happened is that they named the artifact (or whatever it is) the Eye of Jupiter, and then someone realized that was a Roman name, so now they've decided to make the pantheon diverge more from the Greeks. Perhaps Mercury and Mars are also Lords of Kobol. Have Ares and Hermes ever been mentioned? [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 12:13, 10 December 2006 (CST)
:Ares has been mentioned in the webisodes. I think that the names can just be used interchangably and that they aren't seperate entities at all. For example they mentioned Hera and Jupiter in the same sentence, even referring to their relationship I think. That points strongly towards the names meaning the same. A couple of thousands of years have passed, so it makes some sense that the mythology has been adapted --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:38, 10 December 2006 (CST)

:: Nevermind. I remembered that Selloi did say that Hera was wife to Zeus. Unless Hera had two husbands, Jupiter must be an alternate name for Zeus. [[User:Alpha5099|Alpha5099]] 19:20, 10 December 2006 (CST)

Hera's roman equivalent is Juno, but it's clearly stated that Hera and Jupiter were spouses. At the same time, Zeus has been referred to numerous times. I think it's safe to suppose that they're just alternate names. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:33, 11 December 2006 (CST)

== Hot Dog's name ==

Great episode. Sorry to see Kat go. Anyway, I noticed that Hot Dog's name was spelled as Brendan Costanza with one "N", not as Constanza. I believe it has always been spelled as Constanza but I think it was spelled as Costanza in one previous episode. --[[User:123home123|123home123]] 10:13, 10 December 2006 (CST)

== Hybrid's Quote ==

Anyone got down what the Hybrid told Gaius? Figured it'd look good in the quote section... --[[User:Ghilz|Ghilz]] 14:27, 10 December 2006 (CST)

==Carol-Anne?==

Did Bill Adama refer to his wife as Carol-Anne in the sickbay scene? That would clear things up immeasurably with regard to [[Caroline Adama|Caroline]] and [[Anne Adama]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 18:44, 10 December 2006 (CST)

:I thought the same thing, but he has such a gruff voice it's hard to be sure. Maybe someone will know what the subtitles said? --[[User:Pearse|Pearse]] 10:36, 11 December 2006 (CST)

:I heard Carol-Anne as well, and the recent work that Jamie Bamber submitted to the scifipedia (which admittedly had some errors) did mention her name as being Carolanne. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:43, 11 December 2006 (CST)

==Three killing herself softly==
I'm having a tough time believing that no one is noticing that D'Anna is having herself killed, even if the centurion is wiping it's logs. At the very least, she must have some accomplices helping her in the resurrection chamber.[[User:Belay-down-your-burdens|Belay-down-your-burdens]] 18:54, 10 December 2006 (CST)
:Agreed, it seems unlikely. Perhaps she's being aided by other Threes? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:31, 11 December 2006 (CST)

== Slip? ==
I removed the following from the Analysis:
* One of D'Anna's sketches in particular appears to depict the profile of a mustached and bearded male with long hair—a possible reference to Baltar; later in the episode after Baltar communes with the hybrid, D'Anna says "Could there be a connection between their gods and ours?" where "their" refers to the polytheistic human pantheon and "ours," the Cylon single god, a possible slip on her part indicating that she believes Baltar to be a Cylon, or that D'Anna believes Baltar has accepted the Cylon religion, and so no longer counts him as following human beliefs.

Feel free to put it back if you can figure out how to get it into a single bullet point. Part of the reason I pulled it was I interpreted the "ours" to refer to the Cylon (collectively) god and their to be the Colonials... regardless of who was standing there. It's more of an us vs them thing, in general, but I don't think she slipped or is implying anything from that necessarily, other than maybe an increased closeness that he MAY be considered as being on the side of "us". But mostly, let's just keep these things free of nested comments. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:13, 11 December 2006 (CST)

That's actually why I described it as a "possible slip," though I think it's considerably less likely tha Baltar would have accepted the Cylon religion with no evidential plot nods or development in that direction. We do, on the other hand, have Baltar asking D'Anna if he's one of the final five in this episode, making it an issue "at-hand" and her pronoun usage potentially premonitory (it's either that, or a fantastic red herring). I think it's thus at least a remotely tenable possibility worth sharing in the Wiki's analysis as educated speculation. --[[User:Mattpeckham|Mattpeckham]] 10:27, 11 December 2006 (CST)
:I don't really disagree. I was just hoping somebody could come up with a way to work in that nested bullet. In fact... I think I have an idea. I'll edit above, and see what you all think. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:39, 11 December 2006 (CST)
== Boxey? ==

Near the end of the episode, when Kara goes to put Kat's picture on the wall, did anyone else notice the "MISSING" poster? I swear Boxey was in the picture on it. A sly in-joke?--[[User:Kross|Kross]] 09:54, 11 December 2006 (CST)
:I'll check when I get home. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] <sup>([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]])</sup> 10:02, 11 December 2006 (CST)
:Looks like a woman in a baseball cap to me. --[[User:Kidsafe|Kidsafe]] 13:22, 11 December 2006 (CST)

Torn

2006-11-11T09:13:44Z

Kidsafe: /* On Galactica */

{{Episode Data
| title= Torn
| image=Season 3 - Promo - Epi 5 - StarbuckTighAdama.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 6
| guests= [[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]] <br/>
| writer= [[Anne Cofell Saunders]]
| story=
| director= [[Jean de Segonzac]]
| production= 306
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-11-03
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population= 41,422
| podcast=Y
| prev= [[Collaborators]]
| next= [[A Measure of Salvation]]
}}
== Overview ==
:''[[Kara Thrace|Starbuck]] and [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]] create divisions between those who suffered under the Cylon occupation of [[New Caprica]] and those who stayed with the fleet. Meanwhile, [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar]] tries to prove his worth to the Cylons.''

== Summary ==

=== On [[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]] ===
* ''Galactica'''s air group runs exercises with the Viper pilots who settled on New Caprica and are thus out of shape. Starbuck deliberately breaks formation and collides with [[Noel Allison|Narcho]]'s Viper, forcing an end to the exercise and causing now-Major [[Lee Adama]] - who has resumed his post as [[CAG]] - to remove her from flight duty.
* In his quarters, [[Saul Tigh]] is drinking in excess. He believes he hears [[Ellen Tigh|Ellen]] say "I can't believe you did that to me". He looks out into the civilian-crowded corridor and follows a woman who he believes to be Ellen, only to grab a mid-aged woman who is talking to a young boy, presumably her son.
* Upon Thrace's return to her bunk, she is met by Kacey and her mother, whom she dismisses, telling the Kacey's mother not visit her again.
* [[Karl Agathon]] congratulates and encourages Apollo for losing all the excess fat he had gained during the New Caprica era. Apollo asks Helo to ensure to remind him to never let that happen again.
* [[Gaeta|Felix Gaeta]] meets with [[Laura Roslin]] and [[William Adama]] to discuss Baltar-related matters. During the year before the Cylon Occupation of New Caprica, Baltar was obsessed with analyzing the data from Kobol to find the path to Earth. Based on passages in the [[Pythia|Scrolls of Pythia]], Baltar identified a nebula and two associated pulsars he believed to be a landmark on the road to Earth.
* In the pilots' rec room, [[Brendan Constanza|Hot Dog]] christens Lieutenant [[Sharon Agathon]] with the callsign "[[Athena]]" after she points out that, despite appearances, she is not "[[Boomer]]".
* Thrace and Tigh begin to sow dissent between the survivors of New Caprica and the crew that stayed behind on ''Galactica''.
* Adama confronts Thrace and Tigh on their behavior. He challenges them to shoot him, as their constant complaining is tantamount to pulling the trigger. When neither do, Adama demands they shape up and move on with their lives.
* Spurred by Adama's words, Thrace cuts her hair and appears to return to duty. Later, in uniform, she visits [[Kacey]] and her mother.
* Meanwhile, Tigh returns to his room and begins drinking to excess, finishing off one bottle and starting another.
* In a Raptor, Athena and [[Racetrack]] jump into range of the [[Lion's Head Nebula]], and are excited to find what the Scrolls described (an eye that blinks red and blue). They quickly realize, however, that they have jumped right next to the dying basestar.

=== On a [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ===
*[[Gaius Baltar]], aboard the Cylon basestar, is having another hallucination. On a sunny beach, Gaius praises Six for returning to him in his time of need, and states that he enjoys having conversations with her. Six implores him to learn anything and everything about the Cylons, as he will need the information in the days ahead. Baltar presses six again to tell him what she is, either a hallucination or the result of some sort of implant - Six tells Baltar, again, that she is an angel of God.
*Having been allowed to stay on the [[basestar]], [[Caprica-Six]] and [[Three]] talk with Baltar later on, inquiring about the location of [[Earth]]. Baltar initially denies having any knowledge of where Earth is, but then reveals that he does have clues as to where its probable location is. He then finds out that the [[Cylons]] intend to find Earth so they can use it as their new home.
*Baltar is apprehensive about helping the Cylons, and Caprica-Six tells him that the Cylons are also leery as to whether his intentions are true or not. Caprica-Six leads Baltar through the ship, telling him that she uses a projection of a forest to navigate the ship. In his mind, Baltar realizes that his form of projection is similar to what the Cylons are using, causing him to question whether he is human or a Cylon.
*Caprica-Six informs Baltar that his rescue of [[Hera]] and his assistance in finding Earth has made him a valuable asset, and has gone a long way in impressing the Cylons. Baltar asks why there are only seven models on the ship, and inquires about the remaining five models. Caprica-Six tells him that they don't talk about it. He asks whether they would recognize one of the others, but their conversation is interrupted by Three before she can answer.
* Three informs Caprica-Six that there is a situation, and a [[Five]] states that the basestar that went to check the pulsar has not reported back. The group head to a control center, where Baltar finds out that the missing basestar has been infected by a disease. The Cylons speculate and that any Cylon that dies and uploads to a [[Resurrection Ship]] might spread the virus even further. As a precautionary measure the Resurrection Ship is kept out of range. On the urge of his internal Six, Baltar offers to board the infected basestar and collect scientific information.
* Before he leaves on his mission, Baltar encounters the [[Hybrid|Cylon Hybrid]] that controls the functions of the basestar. The hybrid is hooked into the ship's systems and continually vocalizes her seemingly non-sensical thoughts. Caprica-Six tells Baltar that it is thought by most of the Cylon models that the Hybrid has gone insane from being connected to the [[basestar]] and that her words hold no meaning, however the [[Leoben]] model considers the hybrid's words as coming from God.
* The Cylons provide Baltar with a Raptor to board the baseship, and when he arrives, he finds numerous Cylons, either dead or dying. He collects blood samples and takes pictures of the area to bring back for analysis, and also finds a large manmade object in the hold of the ship. He then finds a dying [[Six]] model (curiously with black hair), who informs him that the device the Cylons captured, a probe left by the [[13th Colony]]. Even though Baltar offers to bring her help, she tries to attack him, and he strangles her to death.
* Upon his return to the basestar, he denies finding anything that could have caused the outbreak of the virus, but Caprica-Six notices the probe object in Baltar's picture, but doesn't let on to anyone else what she has discovered.

== Questions ==
* Would it be possible for the Colonials to salvage the derelict basestar for their own purposes? ([[A Measure of Salvation|Answer]])
* What has happened to the remaining five Cylon models? Are they so secretive that none of the other seven variants have any knowledge of them? Did the Cylons permanently box the other models because they were dissenters to the cause of the Cylon race?
* If Baltar was able to extrapolate the location of the Lion's Head Nebula just from reading the sacred scriptures, can we not assume someone else could have conducted the same research at an earlier date?
* What is Caprica-Six going to do now that she realizes Baltar may be withholding critically sensitive information? ([[A Measure of Salvation|Answer]])
* Cally and Galen Tyrol are both seen working on the hangar deck. Who is taking care of their baby? Has a system been put in place to take care of crewmembers' children?
* Is Athena infected with the Cylon virus? ([[A Measure of Salvation|Answer]])
* As the probe is supposed to come from the 13th Tribe, and is affecting Cylons, does that mean that Cylons have been exisiting in times of the 13th tribe? Or is just by accident that is viral for Cylons? ([[A Measure of Salvation|Answer]])
** What is the "genetic pool" that the human form Cylons all come from, and has it existed for longer than the Cylons themselves?
* Is the virus biological or technological in nature? The "inevitable once we took human form" and "genetic pool" lines indicate that the Cylons think it is biological. On the other hand, their speculation that it could survive through a download process implies that it could technological in nature (i.e. computer virus). Or is the virus both biological and technological, like the Cylons themselves? ([[A Measure of Salvation|Answer]])
* Is Boomer the Cylon model Number Eight seen in the control center of the basestar with Baltar? If so, is her involvement with the Cylons on that basestar to find a map of Earth an indication that she has finally accepted her identity as a Cylon and disassociated herself from humanity? Does she think that peaceful coexistence with the thirteenth tribe would be possible, despite the failure of New Caprica?
* With seven Cylons revealed and the "Final Five" on odds with them, are there any Cylon Agents left in the fleet?
* If the known seven Cylons don't speak about the "Final Five", why did Caprica-Six mentioned the existence of twelve models in the first place? Maybe whatever happened between them occured after the Fall of the Colonies?
* How do the Cylons know for sure that the probe was left by the 13th Colony?
* Where is Cavil?

== Analysis ==
*The crew-position shuffle continues from last episode, but some definite decisions have been made:
**Lee has been demoted back to Major, and has resumed his old position as CAG, with Kat and Hot Dog as senior pilots under him. Starbuck is as well, until Adama revokes her flight status for reckless behaviour.
**As mentioned, it seems Kat has been demoted from CAG to leader of [[Blue Squadron]].
**As implied in "Collaborators", Helo keeps the XO slot aboard ''Galactica'' for now.
**Gaeta appears to have inherited Baltar's mantle as the scientific advisor (it is unclear whether he holds any additional positions), and is focusing his efforts on refining a course for Earth.
**Cally Tyrol is shown working the flight deck alongside her husband, showing that she is once again active in the Fleet.
**[[Noel Allison|Narcho]] is now a pilot on ''Galactica''.
*
*Following her actions during the Battle of New Caprica, Sharon Agathon seems to have garnered some degree of acceptance among the ''Galactica'' air group.
*"Athena" is the name of [[Athena (TOS)|Adama's daughter]] in the original series. This may be an allusion to the changing relationships on ''Galactica'': Sharon Agathon has replaced Kara Thrace as William Adama's surrogate daughter. (He tells Thrace, "You were like a daughter to me once. No more.") As Hot Dog states, Athena is also the name of a [[Athena, Lord of Kobol|Lord of Kobol]].
*The baseship hybrid appears to be viewed by the Cylons in the same way as the Centurions and Raiders. The Hybrid has no vote in the Cylon decision-making process, despite its ability to express its thoughts and feelings, after a fashion.
*The Cylons have a [[Raptor]] and [[flight suit]] at their disposal, acquired during the occupation of [[New Caprica]] or from undestroyed Colonial military assets on the [[Twelve Colonies]]. This raises the possibility that the Cylons may have other Colonial ships in their possession.
*Given Admiral Adama's conversation with Tigh in the rec room, Adama clearly doesn't know of Tigh's hand in executing [[Ellen Tigh|his wife]] for collaborating with the Cylons.
*It is interesting to note that despite having found the map to Earth during Season 2, Admiral Adama still displays a level of skepticism towards finding Earth. It isn't until Gaeta begins linking the prophecies with actual star chart data, such as the red and blue pulsars, does Adama's facial expression change to a mild expression of surprise.
*Despite claims made during his bid for the presidency, Baltar worked on finding the location of Earth during his time as president, likely hiding his notes from the Cylons after the occupation. During his discussion with Adama and Roslin regarding Earth's location, Gaeta surmises that Baltar likely pursued the research as he wanted to get there himself eventually.

==Notes==
*According to an [http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/4175/58/ interview] with executive producer [[David Eick]], episodes 5 and 6 are a two-part story in which ''Galactica'' discovers a dying Cylon Baseship, and deals with a plague that has befallen the Cylons. (Eick is counting "Occupation" and "Precipice" as one episode.)
*The phrase "end of line," uttered by the [[Hybrid|Cylon hybrid]] in this episode, is a possible reference to the film ''[[w:Tron (film)|Tron]]'', in which the [[w:Master Control Program (Tron)|Master Control Program]] finishes its sentences with "end of line."
**This may also be a play on the episode title. ''Torn'' is an anagram of ''Tron''.
**[[w:End_of_Line|End of line]] is also a computing term, referring to the character used to signal a new line in text-based protocols.
* In the PC game ''[[w:Homeworld|Homeworld]]'', [[Wikipedia:Karan S'jet|Karan S'jet]], a young female neuroscientist, integrates her physical body into the mothership to serve as its living CPU. This is similar to the function of the Cylon Hybrid. (Although S'jet chose to do so voluntarily, and it is unlikely, from comments by [[Three]], that the Hybrids were given a choice) . The backstory to the game's sequel ''[[w:Homeworld 2|Homeworld 2]]'' descibes S'jet as undergoing a similar metaphysical experience while integrated with the mothership as Caprica-Six describes of the Hybrid. Another simillar subject from Homeworld are the Bentusi, and ancient and extremely powerful, yet friendly race of traders. The Bentusi are literally integrated into their ships in a manner simillar to the Hybrid, and can feel the space around them. To quote them: "''We are one with our vessels, as was your S'jet persona. We are unbound. The solar winds blow across our skin. Hyperspace sings in our ears. The Universe unfolds around our thoughts."''
* The idea of using living creatures as central processing units of large ships has been visited before in both literary and filmed science fiction. For example the pilots in ''[[w:Dune|Dune]]'' serve a similar function while under the influence of the Spice. In Norman Spinrad's novel "The Void Captain's Tale", some women become pilots because they believe to achieve a better insight into god's creation, thus having a spiritual experience. This is similar to Leoben's beliefs about the Hybrids. Recent television series with living CPUs include ''[[w:Babylon 5|Babylon 5]]'', with human telepaths in the [[w:Shadow (Babylon 5)|Shadow]] vessels, and ''[[w:Farscape|Farscape's]]'' [[w:Pilot (Farscape)|Pilot]], though in the latter case, Pilot is more like a conduit between the crew and [[w:Moya|a sentient ship]] in its own right.
** The idea of a living being serving as CPU for a space vessel is explored, in detail and from the ship's perspective, in Anne McCaffrey's [[w:The Ship Who Sang|Ship Who...]] series of novels and short stories. The first of these was published in 1961 and may well be the inspiration for the other examples cited above.
*According to the podcast for the episode, the Hybrid's visual look was inspired by the precogs in ''[[w:Minority Report|Minority Report]]''.
*In the podcast is also revealed that some scenes of the episode had to be highly alterated from what was initially planed. For example the opening conversation of Baltar and Six had to be redubbed and in the original script Starbuck simply ran out of gas, instead of crashing with another Viper. Additionally it is mentioned that Katee Sackhoff really cut her own hair at the end of the episode.
*The name of the director, [[Jean de Segonzac]], was misspelled in the onscreen credits. He was listed as Jean de Segoznac.
*[[Cavil]] is absent from the episode's basestar scenes, aside from a brief closeup from a previous episode used to illustrate Baltar's thoughts about the seven models he has seen. It should be noted that the Cavil model was neither seen on Caprica in "[[Downloaded]]" nor on the scenes set on the baseship we have seen so far. While this is likely due to the fact that actor [[Dean Stockwell]] is not available, it should be noted that there were no stand-ins used to indicate the presence of the Cavils, as it happened with Simon and Conoy in "Downloaded".
**Also, with the exception of [[Tricia Helfer]] and [[Grace Park]], all the actors playing Cylons are guest stars and not members of the regular cast. As this means that having all seven Cylon models present in an episode will drive up its production cost, it is unlikely that all Cylons will be present in many episodes. ([[Simon]] had only a handful of lines in "[[Occupation]]" and "[[Precipice]]", and [[Three]] was the only non-regular Cylon to appear in "[[Collaborators]]".)
**It should be noted that [[Dean Stockwell]] is a prominent actor, an Academy-award nominee, and most likely the highest paid regular guest star on the show outside of [[Lucy Lawless]]. This is the most probable reason why he has not appeared as frequently as other guests.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==

*''On Galactica's flight deck'':
:'''Chief Tyrol''': (checking Starbuck's Viper) Captain, how did you land this thing?
:'''Kara Thrace''': Pointed it towards the deck and stopped when I got here.
:'''Hot Dog''': Bone-dry, she says. Landed the bird without a drop of fuel.
:'''Lee Adama''': (walking up to Kara) If you want to die, I will open up an airlock for you, but you are not taking one of my Vipers with you.
:'''Kara Thrace''': The bird's on the deck. ''I'm'' on the deck. I don't know what you're bitching about.
:'''Lee Adama''': I don't give a frak what you do, Starbuck. You're done flying.

*''Gaius Baltar sees and hears the Hybrid for the first time'':
:'''Hybrid''': Two protons expelled at each coupling site creates the mode of force, the embryo becomes a fish though we don't enter until a plate, we're here to experience, evolve the little toe, atrophy, don't ask me how, I'll be dead in a thousand light years, thank you, thank you, genesis turns to its source, reduction occurs step wise though the essence is all one, end of line. FTL system check. Diagnostic functions within parameters repeats the harlequin, the agony exquisite, the colors run the path of ashes...

*''In the rec room on Galactica'':
:'''Helo''': (referring to the rescue on New Caprica) Hey, we all made sacrifices.
:'''Saul Tigh''': Is that so?
:'''Helo''': Yes, that's right.
:'''Saul Tigh''': Well, while you were pinning wings on your Cylon girlfriend, our people were strapping homemade bombs to their chest, doing what they could to take the bastards out. So forgive me if I don't get all misty over your sacrifices.

*''Adama's feelings towards, and regarding, Starbuck'':
:'''Adama''': You were like a daughter to me once - no more. You're malcontent and a cancer, and I won't have you on my ship. So you have a choice - you can figure out how to become a human being again, and an officer; or you can find another place to live, off of this ship. You're dismissed.

*''Adama's feelings towards, and regarding, Saul Tigh'':
:'''Adama''': You're full of bile, hatred, and I know it has something to do with [[Ellen Tigh|Ellen]]. I'm sorry for that. And if you need time Saul, you take all the time you want, but I gotta run a ship. And the last thing I need is a one-eyed drunk sitting down here, sewing discontent and disobedience. So I'll tell you once again, Saul, you can pick up that weapon and kill me. Or you can get your ass back into your quarters and not leave... 'til you act like the man I've known for the past 30 years.
: '''Saul Tigh''' (picks up weapon and unloads it) That man doesn't exist any more, Bill. And you won't be seeing me again. (drops gun on table, hobbles out of room)

*''The Hybrid's objection to leaving the infected Basestar behind'':
:'''Hybrid''': Mists of dreams drip along the nascent echo, and love no more. End of line.

*''When discovering the dying basestar'':
:'''Athena''': When God's anger awakens even the mighty shall fall.

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
* [[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
* [[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Tyrol]]
* [[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
* [[Rick Worthy]] as [[Simon]]
* [[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
* [[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
* [[imdb:2422305|Emilie Ullerup]] as [[Julia Prynne]]
* [[Madeline Parker]] as [[Kacey]]
* [[imdb:0817819|Sebastian Spence]] as Lt. [[Noel Allison|Noel "Narcho" Allison]]
* [[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
* [[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
* [[Bodie Olmos]] as Lt. [[Brendan Constanza|Brendan "Hot Dog" Constanza]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category:Episodes written by Anne Cofell Saunders]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Jean de Segonzac]]
[[Category:RDM]]