Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Islanded in a Stream of Stars

2009-03-11T19:31:44Z

Jtal: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| image=IslandintheStars.jpg
| title=Islanded In a Stream of Stars
| season= 4
| episode=18
| guests=
| writer= [[Michael Taylor]]
| story=
| director= [[Edward James Olmos]]
| production=420
| rating=1,568,000 viewers (Live+SD)<ref>{{cite_web|url=http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/03/10/icarly-burn-notice-and-wwe-raw-top-cable-charts/14228|title=iCarly, Burn Notice and WWE RAW top cable charts|date=10 March 2009|accessdate=11 March 2009|last=|first=|format=|language=}}</ref>
| US airdate=March 6, 2009
| CAN airdate=March 6, 2009
| UK airdate=March 10, 2009
| dvd=
| population=39521
| oldpopulation=39556
| prev=[[Someone to Watch Over Me]]
| next=[[Daybreak, Part I]]
| forumthread= 2892
}}

== Overview ==
As ''Galactica'''s condition continues to get worse, [[William Adama|Adama]] is faced with the possibility of abandoning ship. In the meantime, [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer]] winds up forming an unexpected bond with [[Hera Agathon|Hera]] and [[Gaius Baltar]] learns a surprising truth about [[Kara Thrace]]

==Summary==

===Teaser===
* With [[Sharon Valerii]]'s kidnapping of [[Hera Agathon]] and her escape, the spatial disruption caused by the close-proximity [[FTL|jump]] of her [[Raptor]] causes an immense breach in the port side of the alligator's head of ''[[Galactica]]''
* [[Hera]] is in the [[War Room]] playing with models of ''Galactica'', three [[Cylon Raider (RDM)|Cylon Raiders]] and a [[Basestar (RDM)|baseship]]. A quick cut depicts her running down a hallway in the [[Opera House]]. She moves the ''Galactica'' model in to collide with the baseship as the scene fades to the actual ''Galactica'' and her [[The Fleet (RDM)|Fleet]].
* Inside, crew of all kinds, both from the allied Cylons and Colonials, are trying to seal the breach. Tempers are high: a [[Number Six]] and another human crew member argue. Eventually a [[Number Eight]] comes to break the two up.

* In Admiral [[William Adama|Adama's]] quarters, [[Ellen Tigh]] speaks about Hera's abduction as [[Lee Adama]], [[Kara Thrace]] and [[Saul Tigh]] listen. Ellen believes that [[Cavil]] will take Hera to the [[Cylon homeworld]] for study, to determine how Cylon procreation is possible. Saul completes Ellen's thought by saying that she knows the Cylon colony's location.
* While Lee Adama objects to the disproportionate risk in retrieving Hera, not only does Ellen indicate that the child is important for the survival of all the Cylons, but Thrace tells Lee that Hera is vital to the human's survival as well.
* She explains how Hera wrote some [[The Music|music]]--notes that Thrace's father wrote--the same song that switched on the [[Final Five]] and led them all to [[Earth (RDM)|Earth]].
* But the admiral is "had it up to here" with prophesies and destinies. He doesn't want to endanger what's left of his people.
* When Saul convinces Adama to at least check out the colony, Adama permits a [[Heavy Raider]] to go, preferring that the Agathon's not know.

* In the Agathon's quarters, [[Sharon Agathon|Sharon]] is breaking down, as her [[Kara Agathon|husband]] tries to get her to talk and vent her feelings.

* [[Laura Roslin]], now in sickbay and noticeably weakened, experiences the [[Opera House]] dream of Hera running through it, eventually being picked up by a Number Six and [[Gaius Baltar]]. She wakes to find the admiral at her side, and tells him of the dream.

* A seam on the battlestar's hull fractures with cataclysmic results. Dozens of people, both Cylon and human, are trapped inside, the rushing air and falling pressure sealing their fate.
* The Six and human male that argued earlier are closest to a bulkhead door. With all her strength, she pushes the Colonial in front and to the door's edge as two other Colonials pull him in. She screams to close the door behind her and lock it.
* As the door is sealed, the Six loses her grip and is blown out into space.

==Episode summary==

{{cleanup}}

Lee Adama struggles to convince the newly-elected Fleet Quorum that ''Galactica'' can be saved, but many councilors are worried about becoming dependent on the Cylons for military protection. Once the Galactica meets its inevitable demise, the basestar will be the logical choice for the new flagship. [[Number Six#Sonja|Sonja]] assures them that the Cylons will continue to respect William Adama's military authority when he transfers to the Basestar, along with the rest of Galactica's crew and their planes and munitions. Other representatives begin calling first dibs on certain parts of ''Galactica'', which will of course be stripped once its time is up. Laura Roslin's cancer is killing her, and she is now confined to bed in the ship's hospital. She gradually convinces Admiral Adama that he has to abandon Galactica and move everyone over to the Cylon Basestar. Ellen Tigh tries to convince Colonel Saul Tigh that Roslin is right, but he refuses: The decision is Adm. Adama's alone.

Karl Agathon's marriage to Sharon Valerii is falling apart, as she cannot overcome the loss of her child, Hera, or the knowledge that her husband had sexual intercourse with the Number Eight known as "Boomer". Trying to save his marriage, Helo tries to get Adm. Adama to approve the launching of a Raptor to find Hera. Adama has already permitted Sonja, the Cylon representative on the new Quorum, to secretly take a Heavy Raider to the Cylon homeworld, known as "[[the Colony]]". The Colony though has already been moved to a new location by Cavil prior to the [[Cylon Civil War]]; sending Helo out in a Raptor to look for it would be a suicide mission. Adama finally refuses to give permission, to which Helo appears devastated.

Gaius Baltar continues his religious broadcasts to the Fleet, and his latest message focuses on angels walking among humanity. Baltar encounters Caprica Six, who rejects his romantic overtures. She tells him she's changed and that he has not. Baltar breaks down over the loss of his former lover. Later, Kara Thrace meets Baltar while they are both in the ship's head. Kara tells him that she died on Earth, and discovered her own body there. She gives him her dog tag to analyze. He scrapes blood from the dog tag, and finds it came from a body which was already dead. When the ''Galactica'' crew, Cylons, and Baltar's believers meet on ''Galactica'''s flight deck to bury those who died in the hull breach, Baltar reveals what he discovered about Starbuck and calls her an angel. He preaches about eternal life, but Starbuck slaps him and the service breaks up. Later, Apollo meets with Starbuck and offers her his unconditional love and support. They part as friends. Starbuck puts a photo of herself on the memorial wall of the dead.

Aboard the stolen Raptor, Hera keeps crying for her mother, infuriating Boomer. Boomer almost sedates the child, but cannot bring herself to do so; they keep jumping toward their destination. In an attempt to calm Hera, Boomer reveals her "Cylon projection" dreamworld to Hera. Hera can see the world, too, and bonds with Boomer. Boomer begins to develop strong emotional ties to the child. When the two arrive at the "colony", a Cylon base on top of a small, rocky planetoid, Cavil takes Hera from Boomer and declares that soon she will have many playmates. The child weeps and calls out for Boomer, and Boomer also sheds copious tears unwilling to part from Hera.

After an emotional breakdown, Adm. Adama realizes the ship must be abandoned. He meets with Col. Tigh, who initially resists the evacuation order but gives in after a brief discussion. All civilians are to be removed over the next few days, arrangements are to be made to put the military personnel aboard the basestar, and ''Galactica'' is to be stripped for parts. Rather than let the ship break down, Adama intends to "send her off in style."

A Number Eight and Number Six have hooked [[Samuel Anders]] up to a [[Hybrid]] tank in a an attempt to help his brain reboot, but there is no apparent change. Kara Thrace goes to Anders' bedside alone, and decides to kill him rather than let him live in a vegetative state. But as she aims a gun at his head, Anders comes awake. He babbles like a Hybrid, but his ravings also indicate that he's aware of the threat to his life. With one hand, he subdues Starbuck and she drops the pistol. Anders continues to babble, but some of his rants indicate that he is reintegrating, perhaps even repairing, his mind. ''Galactica'''s power and temperature fluctuations were because Anders was connecting to the ship, as the Hybrid tank and the Cylon polymer used to repair the battlestar are giving him the power to interact with the ship's computers. Tigh deems this too dangerous to continue, as Anders might jump the ship. Anders is disconnected from the Hybrid tank, and he falls into a coma again.

A few days later, Starbuck meets with the comatose Anders. She brings Hera's drawing of the song (the song which helped awaken the Final Five in the episode "Crossroads", and about which further complications were revealed in the episode prior to this one, "Someone to Watch Over Me"), and states assertively, that together, they will discover what is going on. She reconnects him to the ship's power systems. He awakens again, and begins speaking in the kind of a hybrid.

== Notes ==

* The title comes from the book ''[[w:The Outermost House|The Outermost House]]'', by [[w:Henry Beston|Henry Beston]], where he chronicles his time spent living on an isolated beach in Cape Cod. In the chapter "Night on the Great Beach" he wrote, "For a moment of night we have a glimpse of ourselves and of our world ''islanded in its stream of stars''— pilgrims of mortality, voyaging between horizons across eternal seas of space and time."

* Two original Cylon Raiders can be seen inside the Colony.

* [[Ellen Tigh]] leads the Cylons in performing the [[Prayer to the Cloud of Unknowing]] at the service.

* Among the "random" phrases hybrid-Anders spouts are the lyrics of the Earth folk song "There's a Hole in My Bucket".

* The Six that gives her life to save that of a ''Galactica'' crewmember is yet another example of a Six with a unique personality, this time one closer in tone to the "working-class" attitude exhibited by ''Galactica's'' human maintenance crew (aka the "knuckle-draggers").

== Analysis ==
*When [[Caprica-Six]] was at [[Gaius Baltar|Baltar's]] congregation he spoke to her about hearing about her living arrangement and offered a place to stay. From this it seems after the in utero death of [[Liam|Liam Tigh]], [[Saul Tigh]] and Caprica Six have broken up as a couple. As a side effect, Col. Tigh has reverted to his "us" and "them" attitude toward Cylons as a whole despite himself and his wife being Cylons including an increase of anti Cylon "racial" slurs.

*[[Chief Tyrol]] was no where to be seen in this episode. Even crewman [[Dealino]] gives a report to both [[Admiral Adama]] and [[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] of what the attitudes of the Cylons, particularly the [[Leoben]]s, thought as to how many jumps ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' had left in her. [[Bear McCreary]] reveals<ref>http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=1671</ref> there is an extended scene on the DVD which shows Chief Tyrol is being held in ''Galactica'''s brig for his part in [[Sharon Valerii|Boomer's]] escape.

*[[Hera Agathon|Hera]] demonstrates the power of [[projection]] to Boomer, to Boomer's surprise.
* It is possible that the opening shot of the episode is a projection of Hera's. If so, it is also possible that Hera's projections are prophetic in nature. She pushes the model of ''Galactica'' into a model of a basestar, which could hint at an eventual confrontation between ''Galactica'' and the Cylons.
*In sickbay, Adama and Roslin reminces about New Caprica and about the cabin they wanted to build but can't. This scene is in its own way similar to the scene in which Boomer and Tyrol shared a projection of the house they had intended to build on Picon. As humans, Adama and Roslin can only conjure up fond memories and regrets in their own mind's eyes. Both couples know that it is never to be, building their dream houses.

*Helo wanted Athena to say that she hated him because he saw it in her eyes. She almost did. In a close up of her lips her mouth parted slightly but then closed. This is most likely for him sleeping with Boomer, who subsequently took Hera. Athena probably understands that Helo couldn't prevent the kidnapping but she probably feels that he should had known that it was not Athena he was sleeping with. It is however conceivable she could blame him for the taking of Hera if she thinks that if he realized that it wasn't her he could had had Boomer captured even before she got near Hera.

*In the episode we saw what is essentially the [[The Colony|Cylon homeworld]]; at least the new one. [[Ellen Tigh]] explained in a meeting with Admiral Adama, Lee Adama, Tory Foster, Saul Tigh, and Kara Thrace where the Cylons (including the [[Final Five]]) were for the past 40 years: "I guess you can call it home. It's where we and the Centurions went after the [[Cylon War|First War]] once we convinced them to abandon their experiments with evolution in exchange for [[Resurrection (RDM)|resurrection]] technology." In the show's timeline the Cylons moved The Colony from there to their present location five months ago just prior to the Cylon Civil War. It is an asteroid sized space station built with the same biological design principles like the [[Baseships]].

*Adama's heavy drinking, pill-popping and unprofessional behavior over the last few episodes seems to recall [[Romo Lampkin]]'s comment that "the soldier in him has had enough" in [[The Son Also Rises]].

== Questions ==
* What does Cavil mean when he tells Hera that she will soon have new playmates?
* Will ''Galactica'' be stripped after all?
* How conscious is Anders?
* Anders recites the lyrics to the real-world folk song "There's Hole in My Bucket". ''Galactica'' was derisively referred to as "The Bucket" prior the fall of the Colonies. Given the precarious state of ''Galactica'''s hull, along with the earlier uses of "All Along the Watchtower" and other real-life literature and poem references, is there a significance to this?
* Can the Colony be found by ''Galactica'''s scout ships?
* How can Baltar tell that Starbuck's blood came from a dead body? ''Baltar explains how in dialogue; forensic science can tell the difference between a post-mortem blood sample and one taken from a living creature.''
** A corpse produces "death enzymes" as it decomposes. Its likely Baltar found high concentrations of these enzymes on the dogtags.
* Is the planet that Boomer jumps in front of Jupiter? The color patterns are similar, the rocky moon could be Ganymede or Callisto, and there is a hint of the Great Red Spot at the lower left.
* Might Boomer defect from Cavil because of her new attachment to Hera?
* Does the presence of First Cylon War-era Cylon Raiders at the Colony indicate the presence of older-model [[Cylon Centurion Model 0005|Cylon Centurions]], too?
* Does Cavil intend to pursue biological reproduction, recreate the resurrection process, or both?
* Do the Eights consider the rest of the Final Five their parents? Do other models also regard some or all of the Final Five as parental figures?
* When the dying Number Eight refers to Tigh as her father, is she simply referring to him as being the father of her kind, or is she being literal and giving a clue as to the origin of the Number Eight model (just as [[Cavil]] is established to be based upon Ellen's father)?
* Did Baltar "cross-over" on Caprica during The Fall of the Twelve Colonies just like Kara Thrace (both having more intense visions after)?

== Official Statements ==

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
* ''[[Saul Tigh|Colonel Tigh]] fulfills a request to comfort to a dying [[Number Eight]]:''
:'''Number Eight:''' (weakly, child like) Thank you.
:'''Tigh:''' Thank me? For what?
:'''Number Eight:''' For the privilege of finally being able to meet my father before I die.
:'''Tigh:''' You shouldn't be thanking me. I spent most of my life trying to kill your kind.
:'''Number Eight:''' [[The Music|Too much confusion]].
:''(Death rattle, the Eight flatlines)''

* ''[[Bill Adama]] is talking with Kara Thrace about looking for Hera:''
: '''Adama:''' In other words, it's our destiny to go after her, right?
: '''Thrace:''' ''(facial expressions and body language indicates "yes")''
: '''Adama:''' Wrong. I've had it up to here with destiny, prophecy, with God or the Gods. Look where it's left us. The ass end of nowhere; nearly half of our people are gone; Earth, a worthless cinder; and I can't even walk down the halls of my ship without wondering if I'm gonna catch a bullet for getting us into this mess.

*'' Ellen Tigh and Saul Tigh are in their quarters and Ellen is trying to get a reluctant Saul to acknowledge his responsibility for his fellow Cylon's interest in survival.''

:'''Ellen:''' Whether you remember that life or not, at least you must understand what we were trying to do. We wanted to end the cycle of war between man and machine.

:'''Tigh:''' That was a bust.

:'''Ellen''' ''(frustrated)'': YES, WE FAILED, but we have a second chance now: Hera! Without her our children are going to die off one by one, just like they're dying right now in Cottle's sickbay!

:'''Tigh:''' I had a child. He died.

:'''Ellen''' ''(thinks for a moment)'': You're wrong Saul ''(caresses his left cheek, shakes her head)'' You have millions!

== Guest Stars ==

* [[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]
* [[Donnelly Rhodes]] as Dr. [[S. Cottle]]
* [[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]<ref>[http://www.buddytv.com/articles/battlestar-galactica/exclusive-interview-rekha-shar-20017.aspx Exclusive Interview: Rekha Sharma of 'Battlestar Galactica' - BuddyTV]</ref>
* [[Iliana Gomez-Martinez]] as [[Hera Agathon]]
* [[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Number One]]
*[[Bodie Olmos]] as Lieutenant [[Brendan Costanza|Brenden "Hotdog" Constanza]]
* [[David Patrick Green]] as Captain [[Xeno Fenner]]
* [[Kerry Norton]] as [[Layne Ishay]]
* [[Lara Gilchrist]] as [[Paulla Schaffer]]
* [[Leela Savasta]] as [[Tracy Anne]]
* [[Darcy Laurie]] as [[Dealino]]
* [[Susan Hogan]] Captain [[Doyle Franks]]
* [[William Samples]] as Captain [[Jules Tarney]]

== References ==

<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{Episode list (RDM season 4)}}
[[Category:Episodes written by Michael Taylor]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Edward James Olmos]]

Talk:Cylon War/Archive 1

2006-10-10T15:15:22Z

Jtal: /* Picture in Pilot Briefing Room */

Question...

Was there also a reference to Saul Tigh being a vet of the Cylon Wars as well? His references to not hearing certain commands, such as the one where a Cylon nuke was incoming ([[Miniseries]]), and his reaction to the events of "[[33]]" making him "feel alive", make it seem like he was involved in the wars.

Or maybe I'm just imagining things...?

--[[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 22:02, 8 Feb 2005 (EST)

I also seem to recall a reference to Tigh being a veteran also, but I can't remember where. His age also doesn't seem to hold up; the war ended 40 years prior to the miniseries, but Tigh's only listed as 50 or so years old. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 22:05, 8 Feb 2005 (EST)

==Veterans Affairs==
Nice edits, Spence and Ricimer, just a few points:
*It's not actually clear that Tigh is older than Adama. Tigh refers to him as "the old man" frequently.
*Info on Tigh's service as a deckhand/promotion to fighter pilot needs citation or death. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:26, 18 November 2005 (EST)
:Although Tigh refers to Adama as the Old Man because that's what everyone calls him, he calls him "kid" in the flashbacks in "Scattered" plus podcast commentary basically sets up that he's older. As for Tigh's service record, it was given in Ron D. Moore's podcast in which he said that this is what his past is in the official series bible. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 21:03, 18 November 2005 (EST)
::What Tigh says is "Ha! Yes! He's in. The kid is back in the fleet." I think could be taken as a metaphor, like "the kid stays in the picture". In any event, that's the ''only'' time he calls him that. He has referred to him as "the old man" ''fourteen times'' so far:
::*Miniseries - once
::*33 - twice
::*Bastille Day - once
::*Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down - twice
::*Scattered - twice
::*Valley of Darkness - once
::*Fragged - three times
::*Resistance - twice
::FWIW, the other characters which have referred to him as such are Thrace (five times), Dualla (three times), Kelly (twice), Valerii (twice), Lee Adama (once), Socinus (once), Gaeta (once), Tyrol (once), Agathon (once). So Tigh is clearly in the lead in that regard. The runner up is Thrace, and I can't imagine that if it was originally ''her'' pet name for him, he'd ever have picked it up. So it seems like it's his name for Bill, not someone else's.
::As for Tigh's service record, here's what I've got:
::<blockquote>"The backstory to the series is that the initial Cylon conflict was fought forty years ago, and in that war both Tigh and Adama were young men, who did not fight together - they fought in separate ways on separate vessels, had separate experiences, and after the war was over, both men were discharged along with many other servicepeople out into the civillian world and they both sort of happened to sign up aboard the same civillian sort of tramp freighter that was plying the trade routes among the colonies, and that was how they met." ([http://scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/201/bsg_ep201_1of5.mp3 Scattered podcast, teaser])</blockquote>
::<blockquote>"Back a little bit, just to jump out and talk about Tigh and the backstory, we did shoot a whole seen with Tigh and Adama that was set in the same period as the flashbacks that you saw in "Scattered", and it was a scene - it was a drinking scene between the two men, and it was sort of modeled on the scene in "Jaws" where Quint is telling the story of the U.S.S. Indianapolis and it was sort of a similar beat, where Tigh and Adama, who again were on the freighter the night before Adama goes back to the fleet, are getting drunk - getting ''really'' drunk, and they're sitting there and they're trading stories, and it turns out Tigh was on a ship called the "Brenig", and the Brenig was boarded by Cylons and they tried to decompress the ship and kill them all and turn the guns of the Brenig against the other ships and their escort fleet and Adama went through and Tigh - it was his first taste of real, ugly, hand-to-hand combat, he saw dead people for the first time, and then it turned out that Adama had gone through something similar on the Galactica - it was the first time we'd ever gotten to show that Adama was actually ''on'' the Galactica, it was in his backstory, I'd always felt that Galactica was the first ship Adama was assigned to during the first Cylon war as a pilot, and that he went through a similar experience and Galactica lost a lot of men, a lot of good men died when the Cylons got on board. ([http://scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/202/bsg_ep202_3of5.mp3 Valley of Darkness podcast, act 2])</blockquote>
::So in short, I don't think we have any evidence that Tigh is older than Adama at all. If you remember somethign else, you need to quote it yourself. I don't like fact checking for you. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 03:33, 19 November 2005 (EST)

:Well yeah, but Tigh calling Adama by the nickname "Old Man" which the rest of the crew also calls him is no real proof that Adama is younger than Tigh. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 12:17, 19 November 2005 (EST)
::As I said above, Tigh calls him that far more than anyone else does. At best it's a wash. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 12:27, 19 November 2005 (EST)

:::We need more info. I hope we get more flashback stuff someday. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 13:33, 19 November 2005 (EST)

::::Our wish is granted. According to [http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/episodes/season02/202/deleted1.html this scene], Tigh was a Petty Officer (gunner's mate) on the Brenig during the second year of the war. Tigh describes himself as "just a kid. Virgin. Teenager."

::::So we know that Tigh was between 13 and 19 during year -50, at the very least, making him between 63-69 during the series.

::::Bill was serving on Galactica when it was boarded during the last week of the Cylon war (year -40). Nearly 2000 people died when it was boarded. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 19:42, 3 December 2005 (EST)

:::::Okay, you're right. Bill's younger. c.f. [[Podcast:Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down#Act 2]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:56, 14 December 2005 (EST)

:::::: Also, a point: I think it's kind of a traditional name for the captain (or, in this case, Commander) of a ship to be referred to as "the Old Man" by the crew, regardless of age. This has already been settled, it looks like, but I thought I'd point that out. At least, when Tigh called Adama that, I never blinked or thought it had anything to do with age, just the chain of command. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:22, 27 December 2005 (EST)

== cylon raiders and cylons in the first cylon war. ==

Is it correct, that during the first cylon war the cylon raiders and cylons were the same models than in the TOS? Thus they could be linked to the TOS versions.-- [[User:Tirkon|Tirkon]] 23:20, 9 September 2006 (CDT)
:The continuities aren't the same; the TOS Cylons weren't even created by the people of the Twelve Colonies. It's rather like the P90's used as props; they are visually the same, but there are no P90's ''per se'' in the continuity of the RDM series, as there is no FN or even Belgium. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 23:46, 9 September 2006 (CDT)

:Another way to interpret the appearance of the TOS ships and Cylons is that both TOS and RDM old Cylons and ships ''look'' similar, but work ''very'' differently. As such, until we might get more information from [[Caprica (series)|the upcoming spinoff]], we must keep these items separate. The [[Thousand Yahren War]] and the [[Cylon War]] aren't the same. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 18:00, 10 September 2006 (CDT)

:'''BUT''', in the Miniseries, one of the pilots in Galactica's attack squadron states that the pictures of Raiders looked like a "flying wing" or "giant wing" (I forget at the moment), and is corrected by another pilot who says those pictures are over 40 years old. It is therefore reasonable to construe that the Raiders looked similar to the TOS Raiders, in the same way Galactica looks similar to her TOS counterpart, but not the same. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 13:16, 20 September 2006 (CDT)

== Picture in Pilot Briefing Room ==

The picture on the wall of the pilot briefing area of a man on his knees infront of a city (pilots would rub it or tap it for good luck), does that have to do anything with the Cylon War? Anyone know any specific events to it? It seemed to be very important to the pilots and to the Commander. I'll try to get a picture from an HDTV capture, though It'll probably be low quality.
--[[User:Jtal|Jtal]] 10:15, 10 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Cylon War/Archive 1

2006-10-10T15:14:59Z

Jtal: Picture in Pilot Briefing Room

User:Jtal

2006-10-10T02:33:47Z

Jtal:

New to the whole wiki submitting thing. Give me some time to learn it. 
Everytime I try to post in a wiki I get fed up from making an account, but this time I had to make one. 
Besides I only have snips of information, nothing too major. Just came here to read up on the [[Colonial Fleet]]. I have to find out their war doctrines, tactics, units, technology, and so forth.

There's not much to say. I'm J'tal...been on the interweb since Jesus was born. Right now into my second year in medical school at University of Toronto. Favorite shows? Battlestar Galactica, Lost, Firefly (for life...FOR LIFE!!!!) and so forth. Mostly play heavy strategy games like Sudden Strike 2 or other games requiring heavy tactics (usually much slower gameplay, but not all the time). Anyone wants to lend me 5 grand don't hesitate to e-mail me. Anyway I'll get back to learning this whole wiki thing...or maybe I should study for that epidimiology mid term....nah priorities first.

By the way I now know what a minor edit is...what a world...

Talk:Uniforms (RDM)/Archive2

2006-10-10T02:04:12Z

Jtal: /* Engine Room Dress Shirts */

== Battle Dress Uniform ==

There seem to be two collar variations of the BDU's in Home pt. II, the normal collar like in any dress shirt worn by Apollo, and the Mandarin collar uniform worn by Adama. The Mandarin is the stand up collar that in the new generation uniforms is for comfort under body armor. You can see the difference in the screenshots for home on the reference link in the main article. The big two pics are the one of Apollo with the shouldered rifle and any of the Adama pics were he has the pepperbox aimed at Boomer's head.

:I agree. I'll make the change. Also, I may have been wrong about the flight suits. They could be plastic or vinyl instead of leather, opinions? Use this image as a reference. http://galactica.emedian.net/episode/1.06/imagepages/image2.html

I don't know, it looks like leather. I'll brainstorm on this. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:21, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

:The sleeves look like Vinyl. The vest looks like an unpolished leather. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:15, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

:: To me, the suit bit (sleeve, pegs, under-vest, etc.) looks like some kind of ''rubber'' material to me. I've thought this for a while now. I imagine that it's some kind of Space-Age Technology that is super-insulative and air-tight that would help in the case of cabin depressurization while in a Viper. This is, after all, the flight suit. I agree that the vest thingie looks leather. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:34, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

:::I agree with Day in that the flighsuit is probably a futuristic Space-Age material. I wonder what the actual costumes are made of (besides the vest, it is most likely unpolished leather). --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:21, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

If you are talking about the "Digital Urban Cammo" "BDU', which is actually known as a MARPAT...its not a collar variation, its the same collar. it can be worn like a madarin collar, or open like a standard butterfly collar.
My Question about the BDU's is what is the designation for the Khaki/Tan variant of the BDU's seen in the MiniSeries and the 1st Season?-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]
:There is no Urban MARPAT, only the Forrest and Desert versions since the Urban was never accepted. The BDUs they wear in Home look to be a commercial digital pattern based off the MARPAT like the ones you can get at UsCav. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:04, 7 February 2006 (EST)
::Yep. While MARPAT has become slang for digital camo, technically only the U.S. Marines can use [[Wikipedia:MARPAT|MARPAT]]. The Army countered with the [[Wikipedia:Army Combat Uniform|ACU]], which lacks the color black. The wikipedia ACU article talks about the whole "Mandarin" up/down style (like Strato said). Does anybody have captures of the older (1st season) camo pattern that Strato is talking about? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:31, 7 February 2006 (EST)
:
::I wasn't refering to a Camo Pattern when I refrenced the Khaki/Tan...but a BDU uniform that is of the same construction as the Olive Drab ones...only Khaki/Tan.
This is seen in the background a few times in the Miniseries (once on a Deck Hand working at a bench in the hanger deck) but can be seen most clearly in the Episode "Litmus" on Sgt. Hadrian ( http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Hadrian). Just curious if thats supposed to be a Marine BDU variant, or what it is. In the Miniseries the Marines wore OD plus an armband that simply stated "Security"...so I really don't know what the color difference is supposed to mean.( in my last post above I was refering to Digital Cammo as "MARPAT" in the same way we refer to Tissue Paper as "Kleenex" regardless of the brand...sorry if that was confusing)-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]

:::Um, as I have already said in the main article, "Marine NCO's (Non-Commissioned Officers) wear a khaki uniform"-->That's a Marine Non-Com uniform. Normal Marines don't wear it.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:32, 7 February 2006 (EST)
::::It is just a khaki variant of the green service uniform that both the Non-coms and Officers wear. It may be missing the suede shoulders though, I need to go check out Litmus. Isn't it ironic that todays quote is from Litmus? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:20, 7 February 2006 (EST)

== Pictures ==

This article (as noted on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|Standards and Conventions]] page) is gonna need a lot of pictures. Do you guys think that we should create a 3- or 4-equals heading for each kind of uniform to better align tha pictures with the accompanying text? This would also help in finding the specific type of uniform a reader is loking for if they were looking for that, rather than just looking for all/any uniform information. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:48, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

== Viper Pilot's Wings ==

What is the insignia that Colonial Officers wear on their uniform on the left side of their chest. It's diamond shaped, and some have sort of wings on the top, and some on the bottom. I have wondered what each signifies, or whether they are Viper Pilot's Wings, which I thought Kara mentioned in "You Can Never Go Home"(not sure of the name) [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 21:12, October 17, 2005 (EDT)
:Apollo takes his off and pins it on Hotdog in "You Can Go Home Again." Just from the dialogue in that scene, I'd say they Wings. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:50, 17 October 2005 (EDT)
::See, that's what I'd say too, but I think Gaeta and others have the same insignia...it doesn't seem to me that it should be so common.

Adama, Tigh, Fisk, and Cain have the "wings-on-top" insignia, possibly designating a command role. Gaeta's counterpart aboard Pegasus also wears the wings. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:23, 23 January 2006 (EST)

On the Wings issue, I would suggest that Lee's are Standard Viper Aiviator Wings(VAW? could we get away with that?), and William and Sauls Pilot wings are Senior Viper Aviator Wings(SVAW)--[[user:Jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]] 21 Febuary 2006.
:Yes. This has been confirmed by Bradley Thompson in the Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques. I therefore suggest the references to the "Surface Warfare Badge" be removed, as well the statement that the senior wings aren't worn by pilots, but "fleet officers". 
:Galactica just doesn't have very experienced pilots on active duty. Pegasus' CAG can be seen with senior wings: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Bscap168.jpg --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 02:54, 14 September 2006 (CDT)

I took some pretty pics for this: [[Image:Senior_wings.jpg|150px]][[Image:Wings.jpg|150px]] --dancing_salad 19:01, 23 February 2006 (EST)

==Jacket==
I removed the line "[[Lee Adama|Apollo]]'s flight suit identifies that he is actually qualified to pilot both." A jacket, in military aviation, is a dossier that contains all the pilots qualifications, commendations, etc. Stinger was not referring to Apollo's flight suit but his record, which he would have recieved when Apollo was transferred under his command. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:51, 22 January 2006 (EST)

: Ahhh. Ha-ha! That makes much sense, then. I guess I can take off "scrutinize Lee's uniform for mention of a Raptor" of my list of things to do. Interesting. --[[User:Day|Day]] 08:43, 23 January 2006 (EST)

== Dress Uniform RDM ==

I know this has not been discussed much, but as far as I can see, Military Dress falls into these topics

A) Parade Dress - Normal Bridge uniform with a "leather like" sash with medals earned.

B) Bridge Officer - as above but without sash, with or without pilot wings, pending Viper Pilot Training.

C) Khaki - a universal standard, mainly adopted by colonial non-coms, a black armband if Military Police with MP shown.

D) Deck Crew - an orange jumpsuit with a black "hold-all" waist coat.

E) Desert Combats - whats the deal with this? any ideas? --[[User:Jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]]

: Here is what I can add

: A) These are known as Dress Greys and fullfill the same role as the Full Dress Blues in the USN. 

: B) These are Blue with a different cut than the Greys. Except for Hoshi, all "Junior Officers" (Major and Below) wear the Diamond with the downturned wings and Colonel and up wear the larger spread wings. These are like the USN Service Dress Blue in that they can be worn on watch and are still formal enough for some ceremonies (like in Pegasus). 

: C) Mainly seen on Marines and a few random bridge and hallway extras. The OD uniform seems to be the standard uniform for the fleet and is like the Working Khaki in the USN. These can be worn be officers and non-coms alike and seem to be the most formal uniform available for the non-coms. For the officers, it's like an undress uniform. 

: D) There are also yellow uniforms of this type. Jammer wears one. 

: E) When have we seen DCUs?, all there have been is Black BDUs and Urban MARPAT copies. 
: --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:50, 21 February 2006 (EST)

: I'm inclined to be in Talos's camp, especially on item E. Why are you creating an issue out of a non-issue? Even mentioning it is pure speculation, fabrication, and over-think at this point. If TPTB depict a desert scene, and roll out a new uniform for it, then you've/we've got our topic to pursue and document. If they ''never'' do a desert scene, then that's their perrogative. Either way, any pursuit of this topic (item E) is a complete waste of time at this juncture.

: We also have to keep in mind... this is a ship/fleet with limited resources, under durress, and a fractured sense of protocol and structure. Yes, they (the military) will try their utmost to keep to standards, but as even Admiral Adama concedes... he's not one for demanding protocol at all times. They (the crew) might have limited caches of uniforms, of pins, of medals, of patches, and are ''making do with what they have on hand'' (which isn't much, considering one ship (''Galactica'') was destined to be interred as a museum piece, and the other (''Pegasus'') was in the midst of a refit). Certain crewers (Hoshi, for example) ''might'' have different pins because they are from different previous postings, now pressed into service at that post because of need, and there's no point in such a petty detail of changing a pin. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 15:11, 21 February 2006 (EST)

I forgot about Jammer, thanks for that input, Talos, well brought up. Would this mean he'd have a different role on the hanger deck (Orange = Maintenance, Yellow =?) from Cally.
As for the desert Combat Dress(DCU), I may have got my wires crossed, but I can remember the security chief wearing a similar style in "Litmus". But you may very well be right on topic E).
Hmm, food for thought, but interesting non the less..-- [[user:Jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:Hadrian was wearing the khaki version of item C in both [[Act of Contrition]] and [[Litmus]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:54, 21 February 2006 (EST)
::Also, on the same subject as Hawke, didn't Roslin have Adama's Admiral insignia made by a jeweler? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 17:11, 21 February 2006 (EST)
But on that note, did Admiral Adama give his son Lee his old Commander Pips?--[[jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:I like to imagine so, although it was probably for reasons of sentimental value instead of necessity--they had insignia for Fisk and Garner by some unknown means. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:16, 22 February 2006 (EST)
But why promote Lee? There are other Senior oficers that could do the job. Why the favoritism? Puzzling.......
But I wouldn't give the job to Saul Tigh, otherwise we'd be renaming the pegasus the "JIM BEAM" (HA HA!)--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

:Please read Questions and Analysis on "[[The Captain's Hand]]" where this question was already asked, and possible answers given; my best-fit theory is that like on ''Star Trek'' and in the real US Navy, anyone who commands a ship is called "captain" even if they have a rank lower than "captain", right? Perhaps this is a continuation of this Navy terminology; Apollo is made "Commander" (their Captain equivalent) of Pegasus, therefore he is given the rank of "Commander"; why put him in charge at all? Well, Tigh never wanted his own command, and below that, there aren't many other high-ranking officers left.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:27, 22 February 2006 (EST)

True, but Kara Thrace is another possible "Candidate". A natural tactitian(like myself), and brilliant leader. A little rough around the edges, maybe more responsibility thrown upon her may mellow her.

:A) Kara is not the best of commanders, B) They've only got so many officers, and they need a Galactica-CAG, C) Apollo outranks her. 2 months ago she was a Lieutenant. Apollo is at least 3rd or 4th ranking on Galactica.

::What about "KAT"? as C.A.G?, It then frees up Kara to move up the command chain.

Question: Have the colonials setup a training camp to repalce losses?--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

:.....The episode "[[Act of Contrition]]", the episode "[[Scar]]"....Jetstorm316, I mean this out of genuine confusion: how much of the New Series of Battlstar Galactica have you seen so far?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:54, 22 February 2006 (EST)

But thats for PILOTS. What about officer training facilities, boot camps for marines, ect? Recruiting instead of enslaving is a must considering current fleet status. They did so in TOS, replacing officers is also crucial or the command structure will crumble from the ground up.

:And to answer your above question: (ahem)ALL OF IT TO PRESENT DATE, ALL ON VCD, DOWNLOADED BY MYSELF, TO WATCH AT MY OWN LEASURE! I can't spend all day analising every episode, I have othe responsibilities to tend to, like a paying job.

I Can't wait until Saturday when I get the latest episode "Download", just to annoy my partner.--[[user Jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]]

:: "[[Epiphanies]]", [[Asha Janik]]; using some civilians to do grunt work in understaffed areas like assembling the ammunition they got in boxes from Ragnar.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 06:52, 22 February 2006 (EST)

But have they recruited to re-enforce their dwindiling Military? Asha is still civilian aswell as Peter Liard, a civilian deck chief on Pegasus, even though he was pressganged. "Pegasus" can only do so much.--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

:I have to go check out my DVDs but it looked like Laird had CPO pins on his uniform. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:13, 22 February 2006 (EST)

:: which were most probably given as a field promotion, due to his technical expertise in aeronautics--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

:::What I figured happened was that Cain needed a deck chief so she assigned him to that job since he was an aeronautical engineer and gave him a rank commensurate with his position. As Cain would say, "I m a flag officer in detached service during a time of war. Regulations give me broad authority in these matters." --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:29, 22 February 2006 (EST)
::::Possible, due to the fact she lost 700 men, maybe her original deck chief was one of those casualties, hence Liards field promotion.--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:::::Exactly my point. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:41, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Back to the original discussion, Point C), if you look at Talos's images Khaki OD dress, this is taken form the pilot episode as Tigh walks away from the CIC. To help everyone out a little, this is time index 8 mins 2 seconds. If you look at the right arm of the non-com, you will see a black armband, with 2 letters in yellow. If I can get a better/clearer shot of this, I would wager the armband reads "MP". Now tell me I don't know my millitary structures! Could anyone please help varify this (Pictorial)fact?
--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:The only problem is that's not khaki, thats OD. Khaki (color) is what Hadrian wears. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:19, 22 February 2006 (EST)
::It looks like any confusion is caused by me comparing the OD uniform to the Navy Service Khakis, an undress, working suitable uniform. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:22, 22 February 2006 (EST)
[[Image:ODarmband2 Mini.JPG|thumb|OD with Armband ([[Miniseries]]).]]
Talos, do you concure that the OD dress with armbard, has lettering?.--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:It looks like the lettering on the OD armband says "SECURITY" or "SEC". It's clearer in the DVD and I'll see if I can get a clearer pic. That was just a picture of oppourtunity while I was looking for Blue duty pictures. There aren't that many of the OD with armband walking around, compared to ODs without like Dualla. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:08, 22 February 2006 (EST)
::The armband definatly says "SECURITY" as seen in this picture. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:22, 2 March 2006 (CST)

::...what does "OD" stand for?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:43, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:::Olive Drab. It's the "army green" color (not camo, just green). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:44, 2 March 2006 (CST)

Or "Off Duty" (as a second dress standard for all military types) See "Scar" for reference.[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

==Counterpoints==

Okay....I do not want this to get "ugly", however there are a *LOT* of problems with Jetstorm316's recent posting here in Talk; For starters, at first glance it doesn't look like he even bothered to read the write up '''already in the article''', but instead posted up his own observations. I'm not trying to insult, cast blame, whatever. I wash my hands of this. But I need to make the following counterpoints:

"A) ''Parade Dress - Normal Bridge uniform with a "leather like" sash with medals earned. ''"

:No. As you can see in the write up I did weeks ago for "Uniform" on the front page, a dress uniform is not "a bridge uniform" with some alterations: It is gray, lacks a pocket or shoulder patches, as well as the sash. Senior officers' uniforms also feature a dark gray bar around the neck, and epaulettes. No, it is not called "Parade Dress" (well, with capitals like an official name like that), they call them "Dress Grays", i.e. dress uniform. A point I forgot to make was that the Dress Uniform is actuall an overcoat of sorts; the Duty Uniform (below) just tucks into the belt.

"B)'' Bridge Officer - as above but without sash, with or without pilot wings, pending Viper Pilot Training. ''"

:A key point you didn't notice is that this is not a "Bridge Officer" uniform; it is a uniform for all Colonial Fleet officers: Apollo, Starbuck, and Boomer have been seen wearing them, as noted in that list there which denotes the differences in this uniform for different ranks. LSO Kelly also wears one. And as said above, it's really not like the dress uniform. As for the differences in those little Wing badges they have, I would greatly appreciate if someone could find the little differences between them; however it is definately not "pending Viper Pilot Training", as I do believe that even Raptor pilots or Gaeta have them.

"''C) Khaki - a universal standard, mainly adopted by colonial non-coms, a black armband if Military Police with MP shown. ''"

:No, this is also blatantly wrong. This is not a uniform for "Colonial Non-Coms". Chief Tyrol is the highest-ranking Colonial Fleet Non-Com on the ship, yet as you can see clearly in this Galacticastation pic: http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/Screencaps/s1/103/bscap028.htm he does not wear a khaki uniform. He wears the green duty uniform, which other Colonial Fleet personel, such as Cally: http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/Screencaps/s1/103/bscap014.htm who is an enlisted crewman, also wears. So you see, '''this is not a "universal standard, mainly non-com uniform"'''. No, a black armband is not worn by just "the military police"; all people wearing this that we have seen had the black armband. Either way, we've pretty much confirmed that it is the Colonial Marine Corps Non-Com uniform, but is not used by the Colonial Fleet. (Still, we have not seen it featured much, and the black armband stuff needs more research/attention in future episodes.

"''D) Deck Crew - an orange jumpsuit with a black "hold-all" waist coat. ''"

:Correct; this is in the article, yeah no problem there; there are actually orange and yellow ones (notably Jammer), as has been stated above; on real world ships, color denotes task, but as I stated in the article, "orange" isn't a color used by the US Navy's color-coding system.

"''E) Desert Combats - whats the deal with this? any ideas? ''"
:....did you just count the Khaki uniform twice in your list? No, we have never seen a "desert combat" uniform in any episode.

I am sorry, and I have tried to keep this as close to the facts as possible, however this really needed correction. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:51, 22 February 2006 (EST)

:Well, we do agree on something after all, Point D).

As I have stated on Point E), I conceeded it wasn't "Desert" combats, but "Urban" style. Talos quite rightly pointed that mistake out, and I have made sufficiant note of this fact, to correct at a later date in my own files. Once again, point conceeded, no problems here.

Point C) is a tricky one, but I have not seen an episode other than "Litmus"where it was used. Yes, I AGREE more research is needed on this point, maybe pool resourses to define is proper use (I'm offering an "Olive Branch" here, not many get handed out from me), but once again, no problems.

A and B are too close together to seperate, but both uniforms do have similarities with each other.

I must admit, you do have some good points, but some do need redefining.--[[user:jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]]

I uploaded some pics as examples.

A)[[Image:Greys Mini.JPG|thumb|A) Dress Greys ([[Miniseries]])]]
 
B and D) [[Image:Bluesjumpsuit Mini.JPG|thumb|B and D)Blue duty uniform and jumpsuit ([[Miniseries]])]]
 
C) There are some people wearing the khaki without the armband and I'll get a better pic of both the OD and khaki when I get home from classes in about 4 hours. Here's a bad pic of the OD one with a security armband.
[[Image:ODarmband Mini.JPG|thumb|C) OD Uniform with security armband ([[Miniseries]])]]
 
E) [[Image:Urban FotP.JPG|thumb|E) Urban camoflage uniform ([[Flight of the Phoenix]])]]
--[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:01, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Good examples, Talos. Well deserving of recognition. Why Don't you add them into the document as additional
supplement.--[[user:Jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:I was planning too. I just wanted to show them here first. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:54, 22 February 2006 (EST)

== New Uniform Pics ==
Sweet. Thanks, Talos! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:43, 22 February 2006 (EST)
:My pleasure. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:55, 22 February 2006 (EST)
:: i've been cutting off the concrete suits. maybe they can be introduced to the article that way:
:::*Commander - red line on outer edge, gold line on inner edge - [[:Image:Commander_uni.jpg|Example]]
::here are the pics: [[Image:Colonel_uni.jpg|70px]][[Image:Admiral_uni.jpg|70px]][[Image:JuniorOff_uni.jpg|70px]][[Image:Commander_uni.jpg|70px]]

:::well, i think nobody cares. If someone does, just recover. --dancing_salad 18:54, 23 February 2006 (EST)
::::Thanks for adding the pics to the uniform page. Good job on linking through text and not thumbnails, I keeps the page cleaner and less cluttered. Keep up the good work! --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:59, 23 February 2006 (EST)

== Latest Uniform Quibble (Marines) ==

It would appear that TPTB's (or costume dept's) use of the "digiprint"/MARPAT camo BDU's in Home for the featured cast was a one-time occurance, or, at least, an employment ''that is not typical of Marine uniforms''. Up until the Lay Down Your Burdens episodes, we had only seen combat Marines in their black BDU's. Here they were headed back to Caprica to recover as many survivors as possible, and what BDU's do they end up using? OD/green. The vests remained black, but each Marine on the recovery team was suited in OD/green. If the digiprint-camo BDU '''''was''''' part of the Marines' uniform rotation, then it goes without saying that it should have been in this event.

'''''But it wasn't.'''''

Now, that could be from several reasons that either exist inside of, or outside of, the storyline. The reason I'm provocating is that A) the digiprint/MARPAT-camo was indeed a one-time use, spurred by a "Hey! This will look cool!" by a production source, and it wasn't intended to be, nor was it originally, a part of the "series bible", B) The production staff realized they'd be tattooed on the forums for using black (and I'm sure that it would go against the training/knowledge of any military-types on the staff) uniforms to depict a planetside operation, C) The staff couldn't afford, nor justify, purchasing more digiprint/MARPAT BDU's, and "old" camo BDU's wouldn't look "unique" enough for this storyline, and D) They used ''what they had on hand'' (OD/green BDU's) ''knowing that it's an exceptionally minor detail that shouldn't affect the story.''

If my post has a twinge of hostility in it, it's in response to certain folks' repeated (perhaps they've let up recently) projections of real-life structure, regulations, etc. into this topic. Just because a couple of Shore Patrol dudes and the feature characters wore some cool-looking digiprint camo ''does not mean'' that it is standard-issue, regulation-grade uniform for the Marines, or for anyone else. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:40, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:I think the Digital BDUs aren't for the Marines, they've been consistently shown wearing solid color BDUs. My thinking is that the Digital Uniforms are a Fleet-only uniform. The colors are actually similar to the new Digital work uniforms the US Navy is experimenting with. They wouldn't be the best uniform for a mission in a woodland enviroment, is ODs are more appropriate. To be honest, they shouldn't have used those uniforms on Kobol, sticks out like a sore thumb. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:42, 15 March 2006 (CST)

'''''Dress Grays problem'''''
After watching Res Ship pt II, I noticed that the bars around the collar of both Admiral Adama and Commander Fisk were bronze, not black/dark gray. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 07:14, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

==New Unknown Uniform==
[[Image:Unknowndressunif ActoCon.JPG|thumb|left|Funeral Detail ([[Act of Contrition]])]]
Here's an unknown uniform I saw while watching Act of Contrition. It's the same as the Dress Greys except the color of the coat is more black and less blue, the sash is blue, and there's an insignia shaped like a eagle (that's what it looks like to me) near where the sash and belt meet. Maybe it's one of the following:
*A Marine Dress Uniform, officer or enlisted
*A specific Honor Guard uniform

Any thoughts? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:34, 20 March 2006 (CST)

I would say its an honour guard dress, personally --[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

[[Image_talk:Unknowndressunif_ActoCon.JPG]] --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:47, 26 March 2006 (CST)

I think it's the Dress Grays, just in brighter lighting and without the epoulettes. The differences in lighting really make the uniforms look different. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 08:01, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

==The Ship Patches==
I'm going to quibble with both the description of the ship patches (because I think whoever wrote that section didn't understand how they're constructed), how many different patch variants there, and what they look like.
"Galactica's crew patch is colored gold, with "Battlestar Galactica BSG 75" written around the seal. Pegasus' crew patch is colored white, with "Battlestar Pegasus BSG 62" written around the seal. For both officers and enlisted crew, rank insignia is affixed to both sides of the collar."
No. The basic patch for Galactica is a gold/green ground. That's not stitching, it's a solid fabric with a high sheen. The only stitching is the outlining and lettering. That varies depending on what uniform the patch goes on. We've been looking closely at this at Dewback Wing because we're trying to reproduce the patches. The stitching appears in many cases to match the color of the shoulderpad of the uniform tunic. So the duty blues patch actually has very, very dark blue stitching, the duty greens patch has very dark green stitching. The flight suit patch appears to be made from the same material as the the flight suits with dark brown stitching. The deck crews appear to wear patches that are either gold or a darker bronze with dark brown or black stitching (I can't tell from the few clear screen caps I've found, the lighting makes it hard to be certain). Khaki BDUs/duty tans appear to have gold patches with dark brown stitching. Marines appear to have black patches with white or grey stitching (again, lighting) on their black uniforms. The only Pegasus patches that anyone's produced clear screen caps of are on duty blue uniforms and those are bright blue with white stitching. I have no clear shots of what a Pegasus flight suit patch looks like at this point in time.

You can look at my (and the other contributors' at Dewback Wing) work [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/ShipPatches.gif here] That first variation was an explanation of why a single flat color doesn't look right, no matter what shade you pick. You can also see the heavily cropped screen caps of patches [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/ShipPatchesCollage.jpg here]. Keep in mind that some of the color variation you see is the result of high-sheen textiles and variable lighting. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 07:13, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
:If it's wrong and you have onscreen evidence to back it up, by all means correct it, please. A simple episode reference can serve as the citation, though we have the fancy new [[Template:Cite episode|episode citation template]] if you want to specify a timestamp (though honestly nobody has really started using that much yet). Drop me a note on my talk page or pm me at Mortal Storm if you need a helping hand. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:50, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
::some of those reference photos aren't from episodes. They're studio promo pics. I'll have to see if I kept those particular shots sorted by episode (for snarky details I generally don't, since a single detail can generate 10-20 caps across several episodes). --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 17:54, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

::I'm no expert on stiching vs. sold sheen, etc. Though I still thought the basic "Galactica is gold, Pegasus is silver" idea holds up based on the screencaps you have. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 08:04, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

:::Too much blue, and too much bright blue on the Pegasus patches for the background material to be silver/white. It's pretty clearly white stitching on a blue ground. That's why it seems glaringly bright in some shots. The flight suit patches may indeed be white ground, but we haven't seen enough yet to tell. It'd be nice if things followed a logic that fans could make fit with "military" practice, but TV and movie costuming is often driven by other factors, one of the foremost being "Does that look good on camera?" I have a feeling that white patch with dark blue stitching didn't stand out against the duty blue uniform enough. But the shots I've seen from the video blog confirm that the patches are predominantly blue (and a really bright blue at that). Given that they often film in Dark-O-Vision, I can see why they'd make that color choice. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 17:54, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
::::I don't know a lot about uniforms materail detail, though I try. The ''real'' question is whether we can make a convincing enough replica to sneak onto the set...--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:30, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

:::hah. Okay, this is a link to someone's photo gallery. They've graciously put up their set of screencaps from the video blog, which confirms some of the things I suspected. ''All'' the Pegasus patches are blue with white stitching, there are no variations for different uniforms. And the Galactica flight suit patches are made from the same material as the suits. Jury's still out on the Pegasus ones, as I can't read the patches on the rack there and the screen cap I have has too much lighting glare to let us see the actual color of the patch ground. [http://byyourcommand.net/photogallery/SciFi-Channels-BSG/Costume?full=1 byyourcommand.net] Please be polite and don't hotlink to this page, as I don't own it. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 04:48, 10 August 2006 (CDT)

== Pants ==

This article needs more discussion of pants. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 17:14, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
:Does starbuck wear a thong? Important questions indeed... unless of course you mean trousers? ;) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 18:16, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
::Per the episode "Scar", Starbuck just appears to wear grey (excuse me, *gray*) *panties*. Apollo seems to wear gray *underpants*. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 00:22, 21 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Gray is such a boring colour for underwear, i'm dissapointed :( --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 02:57, 21 September 2006 (CDT)

== Flag Officer Piping ==

Hate to shatter everyone's established view of the piping as seen on Admiral Cain's uniform, but it is NOT gold and white- there's a red stripe, also:

[[Image:Admiralpiping1.jpg|200px]]

If you can see, there's a strip of red piping outside the Gold. :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:04, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
:Nice work. Document, document, document. This article has made tremendous progress. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:29, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
:But it's really tiny compared to the gold/white or to the red on the Commander and Colonel uniform. Almost invisible --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:14, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
::But it's there nonetheless. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:19, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Good eye, Madbrood. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:20, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Thanks :) I seem to notice little things like this a lot, not just in BSG... I swear, it'll be my undoing someday. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:34, 25 September 2006 (CDT)

== Engine Room Dress Shirts ==

In [[The Captain's Hand]] the engine crew is shown to be wearing a dress T-shirt with the Pegasus patch on the shoulder. It seems to be a dark green colour.

[[Image:Pegasusdressshirt.jpg|200px]]

Anyone have a better picture or better description for the main page?

--[[User:Jtal|Jtal]] 20:31, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Uniforms (RDM)/Archive2

2006-10-10T01:31:53Z

Jtal: Engine Room Dress Shirts

== Battle Dress Uniform ==

There seem to be two collar variations of the BDU's in Home pt. II, the normal collar like in any dress shirt worn by Apollo, and the Mandarin collar uniform worn by Adama. The Mandarin is the stand up collar that in the new generation uniforms is for comfort under body armor. You can see the difference in the screenshots for home on the reference link in the main article. The big two pics are the one of Apollo with the shouldered rifle and any of the Adama pics were he has the pepperbox aimed at Boomer's head.

:I agree. I'll make the change. Also, I may have been wrong about the flight suits. They could be plastic or vinyl instead of leather, opinions? Use this image as a reference. http://galactica.emedian.net/episode/1.06/imagepages/image2.html

I don't know, it looks like leather. I'll brainstorm on this. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:21, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

:The sleeves look like Vinyl. The vest looks like an unpolished leather. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 17:15, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

:: To me, the suit bit (sleeve, pegs, under-vest, etc.) looks like some kind of ''rubber'' material to me. I've thought this for a while now. I imagine that it's some kind of Space-Age Technology that is super-insulative and air-tight that would help in the case of cabin depressurization while in a Viper. This is, after all, the flight suit. I agree that the vest thingie looks leather. --[[User:Day|Day]] 18:34, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

:::I agree with Day in that the flighsuit is probably a futuristic Space-Age material. I wonder what the actual costumes are made of (besides the vest, it is most likely unpolished leather). --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:21, 13 September 2005 (EDT)

If you are talking about the "Digital Urban Cammo" "BDU', which is actually known as a MARPAT...its not a collar variation, its the same collar. it can be worn like a madarin collar, or open like a standard butterfly collar.
My Question about the BDU's is what is the designation for the Khaki/Tan variant of the BDU's seen in the MiniSeries and the 1st Season?-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]
:There is no Urban MARPAT, only the Forrest and Desert versions since the Urban was never accepted. The BDUs they wear in Home look to be a commercial digital pattern based off the MARPAT like the ones you can get at UsCav. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:04, 7 February 2006 (EST)
::Yep. While MARPAT has become slang for digital camo, technically only the U.S. Marines can use [[Wikipedia:MARPAT|MARPAT]]. The Army countered with the [[Wikipedia:Army Combat Uniform|ACU]], which lacks the color black. The wikipedia ACU article talks about the whole "Mandarin" up/down style (like Strato said). Does anybody have captures of the older (1st season) camo pattern that Strato is talking about? --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:31, 7 February 2006 (EST)
:
::I wasn't refering to a Camo Pattern when I refrenced the Khaki/Tan...but a BDU uniform that is of the same construction as the Olive Drab ones...only Khaki/Tan.
This is seen in the background a few times in the Miniseries (once on a Deck Hand working at a bench in the hanger deck) but can be seen most clearly in the Episode "Litmus" on Sgt. Hadrian ( http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Hadrian). Just curious if thats supposed to be a Marine BDU variant, or what it is. In the Miniseries the Marines wore OD plus an armband that simply stated "Security"...so I really don't know what the color difference is supposed to mean.( in my last post above I was refering to Digital Cammo as "MARPAT" in the same way we refer to Tissue Paper as "Kleenex" regardless of the brand...sorry if that was confusing)-- [[User:Stratohead|Stratohead]]

:::Um, as I have already said in the main article, "Marine NCO's (Non-Commissioned Officers) wear a khaki uniform"-->That's a Marine Non-Com uniform. Normal Marines don't wear it.--[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 18:32, 7 February 2006 (EST)
::::It is just a khaki variant of the green service uniform that both the Non-coms and Officers wear. It may be missing the suede shoulders though, I need to go check out Litmus. Isn't it ironic that todays quote is from Litmus? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 20:20, 7 February 2006 (EST)

== Pictures ==

This article (as noted on the [[Battlestar Wiki:Standards and Conventions|Standards and Conventions]] page) is gonna need a lot of pictures. Do you guys think that we should create a 3- or 4-equals heading for each kind of uniform to better align tha pictures with the accompanying text? This would also help in finding the specific type of uniform a reader is loking for if they were looking for that, rather than just looking for all/any uniform information. --[[User:Day|Day]] 20:48, 12 September 2005 (EDT)

== Viper Pilot's Wings ==

What is the insignia that Colonial Officers wear on their uniform on the left side of their chest. It's diamond shaped, and some have sort of wings on the top, and some on the bottom. I have wondered what each signifies, or whether they are Viper Pilot's Wings, which I thought Kara mentioned in "You Can Never Go Home"(not sure of the name) [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 21:12, October 17, 2005 (EDT)
:Apollo takes his off and pins it on Hotdog in "You Can Go Home Again." Just from the dialogue in that scene, I'd say they Wings. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:50, 17 October 2005 (EDT)
::See, that's what I'd say too, but I think Gaeta and others have the same insignia...it doesn't seem to me that it should be so common.

Adama, Tigh, Fisk, and Cain have the "wings-on-top" insignia, possibly designating a command role. Gaeta's counterpart aboard Pegasus also wears the wings. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 23:23, 23 January 2006 (EST)

On the Wings issue, I would suggest that Lee's are Standard Viper Aiviator Wings(VAW? could we get away with that?), and William and Sauls Pilot wings are Senior Viper Aviator Wings(SVAW)--[[user:Jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]] 21 Febuary 2006.
:Yes. This has been confirmed by Bradley Thompson in the Battlestar Wiki:Official Communiques. I therefore suggest the references to the "Surface Warfare Badge" be removed, as well the statement that the senior wings aren't worn by pilots, but "fleet officers". 
:Galactica just doesn't have very experienced pilots on active duty. Pegasus' CAG can be seen with senior wings: http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Image:Bscap168.jpg --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 02:54, 14 September 2006 (CDT)

I took some pretty pics for this: [[Image:Senior_wings.jpg|150px]][[Image:Wings.jpg|150px]] --dancing_salad 19:01, 23 February 2006 (EST)

==Jacket==
I removed the line "[[Lee Adama|Apollo]]'s flight suit identifies that he is actually qualified to pilot both." A jacket, in military aviation, is a dossier that contains all the pilots qualifications, commendations, etc. Stinger was not referring to Apollo's flight suit but his record, which he would have recieved when Apollo was transferred under his command. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 22:51, 22 January 2006 (EST)

: Ahhh. Ha-ha! That makes much sense, then. I guess I can take off "scrutinize Lee's uniform for mention of a Raptor" of my list of things to do. Interesting. --[[User:Day|Day]] 08:43, 23 January 2006 (EST)

== Dress Uniform RDM ==

I know this has not been discussed much, but as far as I can see, Military Dress falls into these topics

A) Parade Dress - Normal Bridge uniform with a "leather like" sash with medals earned.

B) Bridge Officer - as above but without sash, with or without pilot wings, pending Viper Pilot Training.

C) Khaki - a universal standard, mainly adopted by colonial non-coms, a black armband if Military Police with MP shown.

D) Deck Crew - an orange jumpsuit with a black "hold-all" waist coat.

E) Desert Combats - whats the deal with this? any ideas? --[[User:Jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]]

: Here is what I can add

: A) These are known as Dress Greys and fullfill the same role as the Full Dress Blues in the USN. 

: B) These are Blue with a different cut than the Greys. Except for Hoshi, all "Junior Officers" (Major and Below) wear the Diamond with the downturned wings and Colonel and up wear the larger spread wings. These are like the USN Service Dress Blue in that they can be worn on watch and are still formal enough for some ceremonies (like in Pegasus). 

: C) Mainly seen on Marines and a few random bridge and hallway extras. The OD uniform seems to be the standard uniform for the fleet and is like the Working Khaki in the USN. These can be worn be officers and non-coms alike and seem to be the most formal uniform available for the non-coms. For the officers, it's like an undress uniform. 

: D) There are also yellow uniforms of this type. Jammer wears one. 

: E) When have we seen DCUs?, all there have been is Black BDUs and Urban MARPAT copies. 
: --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:50, 21 February 2006 (EST)

: I'm inclined to be in Talos's camp, especially on item E. Why are you creating an issue out of a non-issue? Even mentioning it is pure speculation, fabrication, and over-think at this point. If TPTB depict a desert scene, and roll out a new uniform for it, then you've/we've got our topic to pursue and document. If they ''never'' do a desert scene, then that's their perrogative. Either way, any pursuit of this topic (item E) is a complete waste of time at this juncture.

: We also have to keep in mind... this is a ship/fleet with limited resources, under durress, and a fractured sense of protocol and structure. Yes, they (the military) will try their utmost to keep to standards, but as even Admiral Adama concedes... he's not one for demanding protocol at all times. They (the crew) might have limited caches of uniforms, of pins, of medals, of patches, and are ''making do with what they have on hand'' (which isn't much, considering one ship (''Galactica'') was destined to be interred as a museum piece, and the other (''Pegasus'') was in the midst of a refit). Certain crewers (Hoshi, for example) ''might'' have different pins because they are from different previous postings, now pressed into service at that post because of need, and there's no point in such a petty detail of changing a pin. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 15:11, 21 February 2006 (EST)

I forgot about Jammer, thanks for that input, Talos, well brought up. Would this mean he'd have a different role on the hanger deck (Orange = Maintenance, Yellow =?) from Cally.
As for the desert Combat Dress(DCU), I may have got my wires crossed, but I can remember the security chief wearing a similar style in "Litmus". But you may very well be right on topic E).
Hmm, food for thought, but interesting non the less..-- [[user:Jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:Hadrian was wearing the khaki version of item C in both [[Act of Contrition]] and [[Litmus]]. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:54, 21 February 2006 (EST)
::Also, on the same subject as Hawke, didn't Roslin have Adama's Admiral insignia made by a jeweler? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 17:11, 21 February 2006 (EST)
But on that note, did Admiral Adama give his son Lee his old Commander Pips?--[[jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:I like to imagine so, although it was probably for reasons of sentimental value instead of necessity--they had insignia for Fisk and Garner by some unknown means. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 03:16, 22 February 2006 (EST)
But why promote Lee? There are other Senior oficers that could do the job. Why the favoritism? Puzzling.......
But I wouldn't give the job to Saul Tigh, otherwise we'd be renaming the pegasus the "JIM BEAM" (HA HA!)--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

:Please read Questions and Analysis on "[[The Captain's Hand]]" where this question was already asked, and possible answers given; my best-fit theory is that like on ''Star Trek'' and in the real US Navy, anyone who commands a ship is called "captain" even if they have a rank lower than "captain", right? Perhaps this is a continuation of this Navy terminology; Apollo is made "Commander" (their Captain equivalent) of Pegasus, therefore he is given the rank of "Commander"; why put him in charge at all? Well, Tigh never wanted his own command, and below that, there aren't many other high-ranking officers left.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:27, 22 February 2006 (EST)

True, but Kara Thrace is another possible "Candidate". A natural tactitian(like myself), and brilliant leader. A little rough around the edges, maybe more responsibility thrown upon her may mellow her.

:A) Kara is not the best of commanders, B) They've only got so many officers, and they need a Galactica-CAG, C) Apollo outranks her. 2 months ago she was a Lieutenant. Apollo is at least 3rd or 4th ranking on Galactica.

::What about "KAT"? as C.A.G?, It then frees up Kara to move up the command chain.

Question: Have the colonials setup a training camp to repalce losses?--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

:.....The episode "[[Act of Contrition]]", the episode "[[Scar]]"....Jetstorm316, I mean this out of genuine confusion: how much of the New Series of Battlstar Galactica have you seen so far?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:54, 22 February 2006 (EST)

But thats for PILOTS. What about officer training facilities, boot camps for marines, ect? Recruiting instead of enslaving is a must considering current fleet status. They did so in TOS, replacing officers is also crucial or the command structure will crumble from the ground up.

:And to answer your above question: (ahem)ALL OF IT TO PRESENT DATE, ALL ON VCD, DOWNLOADED BY MYSELF, TO WATCH AT MY OWN LEASURE! I can't spend all day analising every episode, I have othe responsibilities to tend to, like a paying job.

I Can't wait until Saturday when I get the latest episode "Download", just to annoy my partner.--[[user Jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]]

:: "[[Epiphanies]]", [[Asha Janik]]; using some civilians to do grunt work in understaffed areas like assembling the ammunition they got in boxes from Ragnar.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 06:52, 22 February 2006 (EST)

But have they recruited to re-enforce their dwindiling Military? Asha is still civilian aswell as Peter Liard, a civilian deck chief on Pegasus, even though he was pressganged. "Pegasus" can only do so much.--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

:I have to go check out my DVDs but it looked like Laird had CPO pins on his uniform. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:13, 22 February 2006 (EST)

:: which were most probably given as a field promotion, due to his technical expertise in aeronautics--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

:::What I figured happened was that Cain needed a deck chief so she assigned him to that job since he was an aeronautical engineer and gave him a rank commensurate with his position. As Cain would say, "I m a flag officer in detached service during a time of war. Regulations give me broad authority in these matters." --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:29, 22 February 2006 (EST)
::::Possible, due to the fact she lost 700 men, maybe her original deck chief was one of those casualties, hence Liards field promotion.--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:::::Exactly my point. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:41, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Back to the original discussion, Point C), if you look at Talos's images Khaki OD dress, this is taken form the pilot episode as Tigh walks away from the CIC. To help everyone out a little, this is time index 8 mins 2 seconds. If you look at the right arm of the non-com, you will see a black armband, with 2 letters in yellow. If I can get a better/clearer shot of this, I would wager the armband reads "MP". Now tell me I don't know my millitary structures! Could anyone please help varify this (Pictorial)fact?
--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:The only problem is that's not khaki, thats OD. Khaki (color) is what Hadrian wears. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:19, 22 February 2006 (EST)
::It looks like any confusion is caused by me comparing the OD uniform to the Navy Service Khakis, an undress, working suitable uniform. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:22, 22 February 2006 (EST)
[[Image:ODarmband2 Mini.JPG|thumb|OD with Armband ([[Miniseries]]).]]
Talos, do you concure that the OD dress with armbard, has lettering?.--[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:It looks like the lettering on the OD armband says "SECURITY" or "SEC". It's clearer in the DVD and I'll see if I can get a clearer pic. That was just a picture of oppourtunity while I was looking for Blue duty pictures. There aren't that many of the OD with armband walking around, compared to ODs without like Dualla. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 19:08, 22 February 2006 (EST)
::The armband definatly says "SECURITY" as seen in this picture. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 13:22, 2 March 2006 (CST)

::...what does "OD" stand for?--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 13:43, 2 March 2006 (CST)
:::Olive Drab. It's the "army green" color (not camo, just green). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 13:44, 2 March 2006 (CST)

Or "Off Duty" (as a second dress standard for all military types) See "Scar" for reference.[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

==Counterpoints==

Okay....I do not want this to get "ugly", however there are a *LOT* of problems with Jetstorm316's recent posting here in Talk; For starters, at first glance it doesn't look like he even bothered to read the write up '''already in the article''', but instead posted up his own observations. I'm not trying to insult, cast blame, whatever. I wash my hands of this. But I need to make the following counterpoints:

"A) ''Parade Dress - Normal Bridge uniform with a "leather like" sash with medals earned. ''"

:No. As you can see in the write up I did weeks ago for "Uniform" on the front page, a dress uniform is not "a bridge uniform" with some alterations: It is gray, lacks a pocket or shoulder patches, as well as the sash. Senior officers' uniforms also feature a dark gray bar around the neck, and epaulettes. No, it is not called "Parade Dress" (well, with capitals like an official name like that), they call them "Dress Grays", i.e. dress uniform. A point I forgot to make was that the Dress Uniform is actuall an overcoat of sorts; the Duty Uniform (below) just tucks into the belt.

"B)'' Bridge Officer - as above but without sash, with or without pilot wings, pending Viper Pilot Training. ''"

:A key point you didn't notice is that this is not a "Bridge Officer" uniform; it is a uniform for all Colonial Fleet officers: Apollo, Starbuck, and Boomer have been seen wearing them, as noted in that list there which denotes the differences in this uniform for different ranks. LSO Kelly also wears one. And as said above, it's really not like the dress uniform. As for the differences in those little Wing badges they have, I would greatly appreciate if someone could find the little differences between them; however it is definately not "pending Viper Pilot Training", as I do believe that even Raptor pilots or Gaeta have them.

"''C) Khaki - a universal standard, mainly adopted by colonial non-coms, a black armband if Military Police with MP shown. ''"

:No, this is also blatantly wrong. This is not a uniform for "Colonial Non-Coms". Chief Tyrol is the highest-ranking Colonial Fleet Non-Com on the ship, yet as you can see clearly in this Galacticastation pic: http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/Screencaps/s1/103/bscap028.htm he does not wear a khaki uniform. He wears the green duty uniform, which other Colonial Fleet personel, such as Cally: http://www.galacticastation.com/Galactica%20Station/Screencaps/s1/103/bscap014.htm who is an enlisted crewman, also wears. So you see, '''this is not a "universal standard, mainly non-com uniform"'''. No, a black armband is not worn by just "the military police"; all people wearing this that we have seen had the black armband. Either way, we've pretty much confirmed that it is the Colonial Marine Corps Non-Com uniform, but is not used by the Colonial Fleet. (Still, we have not seen it featured much, and the black armband stuff needs more research/attention in future episodes.

"''D) Deck Crew - an orange jumpsuit with a black "hold-all" waist coat. ''"

:Correct; this is in the article, yeah no problem there; there are actually orange and yellow ones (notably Jammer), as has been stated above; on real world ships, color denotes task, but as I stated in the article, "orange" isn't a color used by the US Navy's color-coding system.

"''E) Desert Combats - whats the deal with this? any ideas? ''"
:....did you just count the Khaki uniform twice in your list? No, we have never seen a "desert combat" uniform in any episode.

I am sorry, and I have tried to keep this as close to the facts as possible, however this really needed correction. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] 04:51, 22 February 2006 (EST)

:Well, we do agree on something after all, Point D).

As I have stated on Point E), I conceeded it wasn't "Desert" combats, but "Urban" style. Talos quite rightly pointed that mistake out, and I have made sufficiant note of this fact, to correct at a later date in my own files. Once again, point conceeded, no problems here.

Point C) is a tricky one, but I have not seen an episode other than "Litmus"where it was used. Yes, I AGREE more research is needed on this point, maybe pool resourses to define is proper use (I'm offering an "Olive Branch" here, not many get handed out from me), but once again, no problems.

A and B are too close together to seperate, but both uniforms do have similarities with each other.

I must admit, you do have some good points, but some do need redefining.--[[user:jetstorm316|Jetstorm316]]

I uploaded some pics as examples.

A)[[Image:Greys Mini.JPG|thumb|A) Dress Greys ([[Miniseries]])]]
 
B and D) [[Image:Bluesjumpsuit Mini.JPG|thumb|B and D)Blue duty uniform and jumpsuit ([[Miniseries]])]]
 
C) There are some people wearing the khaki without the armband and I'll get a better pic of both the OD and khaki when I get home from classes in about 4 hours. Here's a bad pic of the OD one with a security armband.
[[Image:ODarmband Mini.JPG|thumb|C) OD Uniform with security armband ([[Miniseries]])]]
 
E) [[Image:Urban FotP.JPG|thumb|E) Urban camoflage uniform ([[Flight of the Phoenix]])]]
--[[User:Talos|Talos]] 07:01, 22 February 2006 (EST)

Good examples, Talos. Well deserving of recognition. Why Don't you add them into the document as additional
supplement.--[[user:Jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]
:I was planning too. I just wanted to show them here first. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:54, 22 February 2006 (EST)

== New Uniform Pics ==
Sweet. Thanks, Talos! --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 12:43, 22 February 2006 (EST)
:My pleasure. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 12:55, 22 February 2006 (EST)
:: i've been cutting off the concrete suits. maybe they can be introduced to the article that way:
:::*Commander - red line on outer edge, gold line on inner edge - [[:Image:Commander_uni.jpg|Example]]
::here are the pics: [[Image:Colonel_uni.jpg|70px]][[Image:Admiral_uni.jpg|70px]][[Image:JuniorOff_uni.jpg|70px]][[Image:Commander_uni.jpg|70px]]

:::well, i think nobody cares. If someone does, just recover. --dancing_salad 18:54, 23 February 2006 (EST)
::::Thanks for adding the pics to the uniform page. Good job on linking through text and not thumbnails, I keeps the page cleaner and less cluttered. Keep up the good work! --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:59, 23 February 2006 (EST)

== Latest Uniform Quibble (Marines) ==

It would appear that TPTB's (or costume dept's) use of the "digiprint"/MARPAT camo BDU's in Home for the featured cast was a one-time occurance, or, at least, an employment ''that is not typical of Marine uniforms''. Up until the Lay Down Your Burdens episodes, we had only seen combat Marines in their black BDU's. Here they were headed back to Caprica to recover as many survivors as possible, and what BDU's do they end up using? OD/green. The vests remained black, but each Marine on the recovery team was suited in OD/green. If the digiprint-camo BDU '''''was''''' part of the Marines' uniform rotation, then it goes without saying that it should have been in this event.

'''''But it wasn't.'''''

Now, that could be from several reasons that either exist inside of, or outside of, the storyline. The reason I'm provocating is that A) the digiprint/MARPAT-camo was indeed a one-time use, spurred by a "Hey! This will look cool!" by a production source, and it wasn't intended to be, nor was it originally, a part of the "series bible", B) The production staff realized they'd be tattooed on the forums for using black (and I'm sure that it would go against the training/knowledge of any military-types on the staff) uniforms to depict a planetside operation, C) The staff couldn't afford, nor justify, purchasing more digiprint/MARPAT BDU's, and "old" camo BDU's wouldn't look "unique" enough for this storyline, and D) They used ''what they had on hand'' (OD/green BDU's) ''knowing that it's an exceptionally minor detail that shouldn't affect the story.''

If my post has a twinge of hostility in it, it's in response to certain folks' repeated (perhaps they've let up recently) projections of real-life structure, regulations, etc. into this topic. Just because a couple of Shore Patrol dudes and the feature characters wore some cool-looking digiprint camo ''does not mean'' that it is standard-issue, regulation-grade uniform for the Marines, or for anyone else. -- [[User:Hawke|Hawke]] 13:40, 15 March 2006 (CST)
:I think the Digital BDUs aren't for the Marines, they've been consistently shown wearing solid color BDUs. My thinking is that the Digital Uniforms are a Fleet-only uniform. The colors are actually similar to the new Digital work uniforms the US Navy is experimenting with. They wouldn't be the best uniform for a mission in a woodland enviroment, is ODs are more appropriate. To be honest, they shouldn't have used those uniforms on Kobol, sticks out like a sore thumb. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 15:42, 15 March 2006 (CST)

'''''Dress Grays problem'''''
After watching Res Ship pt II, I noticed that the bars around the collar of both Admiral Adama and Commander Fisk were bronze, not black/dark gray. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 07:14, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

==New Unknown Uniform==
[[Image:Unknowndressunif ActoCon.JPG|thumb|left|Funeral Detail ([[Act of Contrition]])]]
Here's an unknown uniform I saw while watching Act of Contrition. It's the same as the Dress Greys except the color of the coat is more black and less blue, the sash is blue, and there's an insignia shaped like a eagle (that's what it looks like to me) near where the sash and belt meet. Maybe it's one of the following:
*A Marine Dress Uniform, officer or enlisted
*A specific Honor Guard uniform

Any thoughts? --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:34, 20 March 2006 (CST)

I would say its an honour guard dress, personally --[[user:jetstorm316|jetstorm316]]

[[Image_talk:Unknowndressunif_ActoCon.JPG]] --[[User:Shane|Shane]] ([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]]) 11:47, 26 March 2006 (CST)

I think it's the Dress Grays, just in brighter lighting and without the epoulettes. The differences in lighting really make the uniforms look different. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 08:01, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

==The Ship Patches==
I'm going to quibble with both the description of the ship patches (because I think whoever wrote that section didn't understand how they're constructed), how many different patch variants there, and what they look like.
"Galactica's crew patch is colored gold, with "Battlestar Galactica BSG 75" written around the seal. Pegasus' crew patch is colored white, with "Battlestar Pegasus BSG 62" written around the seal. For both officers and enlisted crew, rank insignia is affixed to both sides of the collar."
No. The basic patch for Galactica is a gold/green ground. That's not stitching, it's a solid fabric with a high sheen. The only stitching is the outlining and lettering. That varies depending on what uniform the patch goes on. We've been looking closely at this at Dewback Wing because we're trying to reproduce the patches. The stitching appears in many cases to match the color of the shoulderpad of the uniform tunic. So the duty blues patch actually has very, very dark blue stitching, the duty greens patch has very dark green stitching. The flight suit patch appears to be made from the same material as the the flight suits with dark brown stitching. The deck crews appear to wear patches that are either gold or a darker bronze with dark brown or black stitching (I can't tell from the few clear screen caps I've found, the lighting makes it hard to be certain). Khaki BDUs/duty tans appear to have gold patches with dark brown stitching. Marines appear to have black patches with white or grey stitching (again, lighting) on their black uniforms. The only Pegasus patches that anyone's produced clear screen caps of are on duty blue uniforms and those are bright blue with white stitching. I have no clear shots of what a Pegasus flight suit patch looks like at this point in time.

You can look at my (and the other contributors' at Dewback Wing) work [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/ShipPatches.gif here] That first variation was an explanation of why a single flat color doesn't look right, no matter what shade you pick. You can also see the heavily cropped screen caps of patches [http://www.retro.com/employees/lee/Art/BSG/ShipPatchesCollage.jpg here]. Keep in mind that some of the color variation you see is the result of high-sheen textiles and variable lighting. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 07:13, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
:If it's wrong and you have onscreen evidence to back it up, by all means correct it, please. A simple episode reference can serve as the citation, though we have the fancy new [[Template:Cite episode|episode citation template]] if you want to specify a timestamp (though honestly nobody has really started using that much yet). Drop me a note on my talk page or pm me at Mortal Storm if you need a helping hand. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 07:50, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
::some of those reference photos aren't from episodes. They're studio promo pics. I'll have to see if I kept those particular shots sorted by episode (for snarky details I generally don't, since a single detail can generate 10-20 caps across several episodes). --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 17:54, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

::I'm no expert on stiching vs. sold sheen, etc. Though I still thought the basic "Galactica is gold, Pegasus is silver" idea holds up based on the screencaps you have. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 08:04, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

:::Too much blue, and too much bright blue on the Pegasus patches for the background material to be silver/white. It's pretty clearly white stitching on a blue ground. That's why it seems glaringly bright in some shots. The flight suit patches may indeed be white ground, but we haven't seen enough yet to tell. It'd be nice if things followed a logic that fans could make fit with "military" practice, but TV and movie costuming is often driven by other factors, one of the foremost being "Does that look good on camera?" I have a feeling that white patch with dark blue stitching didn't stand out against the duty blue uniform enough. But the shots I've seen from the video blog confirm that the patches are predominantly blue (and a really bright blue at that). Given that they often film in Dark-O-Vision, I can see why they'd make that color choice. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 17:54, 9 August 2006 (CDT)
::::I don't know a lot about uniforms materail detail, though I try. The ''real'' question is whether we can make a convincing enough replica to sneak onto the set...--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:30, 9 August 2006 (CDT)

:::hah. Okay, this is a link to someone's photo gallery. They've graciously put up their set of screencaps from the video blog, which confirms some of the things I suspected. ''All'' the Pegasus patches are blue with white stitching, there are no variations for different uniforms. And the Galactica flight suit patches are made from the same material as the suits. Jury's still out on the Pegasus ones, as I can't read the patches on the rack there and the screen cap I have has too much lighting glare to let us see the actual color of the patch ground. [http://byyourcommand.net/photogallery/SciFi-Channels-BSG/Costume?full=1 byyourcommand.net] Please be polite and don't hotlink to this page, as I don't own it. --[[User:Scotchfairy|Scotchfairy]] 04:48, 10 August 2006 (CDT)

== Pants ==

This article needs more discussion of pants. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 17:14, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
:Does starbuck wear a thong? Important questions indeed... unless of course you mean trousers? ;) --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 18:16, 19 September 2006 (CDT)
::Per the episode "Scar", Starbuck just appears to wear grey (excuse me, *gray*) *panties*. Apollo seems to wear gray *underpants*. [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 00:22, 21 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Gray is such a boring colour for underwear, i'm dissapointed :( --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 02:57, 21 September 2006 (CDT)

== Flag Officer Piping ==

Hate to shatter everyone's established view of the piping as seen on Admiral Cain's uniform, but it is NOT gold and white- there's a red stripe, also:

[[Image:Admiralpiping1.jpg|200px]]

If you can see, there's a strip of red piping outside the Gold. :) --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:04, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
:Nice work. Document, document, document. This article has made tremendous progress. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 10:29, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
:But it's really tiny compared to the gold/white or to the red on the Commander and Colonel uniform. Almost invisible --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 11:14, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
::But it's there nonetheless. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:19, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
:::Good eye, Madbrood. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 11:20, 25 September 2006 (CDT)
::::Thanks :) I seem to notice little things like this a lot, not just in BSG... I swear, it'll be my undoing someday. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:34, 25 September 2006 (CDT)

== Engine Room Dress Shirts ==

In [[The Captain's Hand]] the engine crew is shown to be wearing a dress T-shirt with the Pegasus patch on the shoulder. It seems to be a dark green colour.

[[Image:http://www.iomar.com/bscap003.jpg]]

Anyone have a better picture or better description for the main page?

--[[User:Jtal|Jtal]] 20:31, 9 October 2006 (CDT)

Galactica (TRS)

2006-10-09T04:15:54Z

Jtal: /* Other Craft */

:''For the Original Series ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (TOS)]]. For the Video Game ''Galactica'', see [[Galactica (Video Game)]].''
{{Ship Data
| image= Bsg-bsg-1.jpg
| title= Galactica (BS 75)
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= Approximately 2,650
| co= [[William Adama]]
| xo= [[Karl Agathon]] (presumed)
| role= Carrier / battleship hybrid
| weapons= Primary and point-defence [[KEW|Kinetic Energy Weapons]], conventional missiles, nuclear warheads, Vipers, Raptors
| status= Active
| img= Y
}}
[[Galactica type battlestar|The veteran battlestar]] '''''Galactica'' (BS 75)''' is the most famous warship in the [[Colonial Fleet]]. Built in time to participate in the [[Cylon War]], she remained the only military vessel without integrated [[Computers|computer networks]]. Without networked computers, ''Galactica'' never upgraded to the new [[Command Navigation Program|integrated defence system software]] developed by Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] and his [[Number Six|team]]. Because of this and other fortune, she became one of only [[Pegasus (RDM)|two]] battlestars to survive the renewed [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]] on the [[Twelve Colonies (RDM)|Twelve Colonies]], some 40 years after the end of the first war. At the time of the attack, she was part of the [[75th Battlestar Group]] (BSG-75).

== History ==

''Galactica'' was one of the twelve first battlestars to be laid down by the Colonials. Initially they built a battlestar to represent each colony, where ''Galactica'' represented [[Caprica]]. As such, she is some 50 years old. Following the outbreak of Cylon hostilities several more battlestars were built. ''Galactica's'' first commander was named [[Nash]] ([[Miniseries]]).
[[Image:Mini gal top.jpg|left|thumb|A dorsal view of ''Galactica''. The starboard [[flight pod]] is covered by a window to form the [[Galactica Museum|museum area]].]]
The original battlestars were all designed with non-integrated computer systems to avoid the Cylons' demonstrated ability to override or subvert networked command and control systems early in the war ([[Miniseries]]). Rather than technological sophistication, the battlestar depended on its sheer bulk and defensive / offensive capabilities to ward off any threats to itself or the Colonies.

Following the [[Armistice Station|armistice]] with the Cylons, and their withdrawal from Colonial space, ''Galactica'' and her sister ships served the Twelve Colonies in a variety of roles. While her surviving sister ships were scrapped or upgraded to match the systems capabilities of newer Colonial vessels, ''Galactica'' continued in service without her systems being fully networked or integrated, making her unique among Colonial military vessels ([[Miniseries]]).

With her active career drawing to a close, a decision was taken to retire ''Galactica'' and decommission her from service. [[Colonial Fleet]] chose not to scrap her, but to turn her into a combination of living museum to the original Cylon War and an educational center, with her conversion being overseen by her final commander, [[William Adama]] ([[Miniseries]]).

At the time of her formal decommissioning ceremony, ''Galactica'' is stripped of all but one of her operational [[Viper (RDM)|Viper]] Mark VII squadrons, her munitions are destroyed, and her starboard landing pod is a pressurized [[Galactica Museum|museum]] which houses (among other things) a full squadron of [[Viper Mark II|Mk. II Vipers]] as well as a Viper model that appears [[Viper (TOS)|older than the Mark II]] (Miniseries, also in Deleted Scenes).

With the renewed and unexpected Cylon hostilities, ''Galactica'' quickly proves her worthiness as a warship is far from over as she sorties several Mark IIs retrieved from her museum to challenge her first Cylon attack in over 40 years (her last Mark VII squadron was sent to Caprica for reassignment). The old battlestar withstands a direct hit from a tactical nuclear missile while unsuccessfully performing evasive maneuvers, but later [[FTL|Jumps]] successfully to [[Ragnar Anchorage]] to retrieve much-needed ammunition stores at this hidden depot.

''Galactica'' finally bares her teeth in this new Cylon war as she single-handedly engages two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] with her gun batteries, providing covering fire for [[The Fleet (RDM)|an assortment of 75 civilian ships]] containing the last survivors of the Twelve Colonies. All ships, with ''Galactica'' last to leave the engagement zone, escape to a destination past the [[Red Line]], never to return to Colonial space.

Since the exodus of the Colonials from their overrun homeworlds, ''Galactica'' becomes both protector and provider for the Fleet. She provides covering fire for the Fleet during Cylon attacks no fewer than 240 times ([[33]], [[Act of Contrition]]). The battlestar provides much of the Fleet with recycled water ([[Water]]) and she is the primary source of medical care, where groups of civilians are periodically brought aboard for check-ups and treatment ([[Litmus]]). ''Galactica'' also undertakes internal policing duties within the Fleet ([[Water]], [[Bastille Day]]).

''Galactica'' successfully goes on the offensive against the Cylons, capturing a [[tylium]] fuel mining and processing plant in the process ([[The Hand of God (RDM)|The Hand of God]]).

The [[Mercury class battlestar|advanced battlestar]] ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', commanded by Admiral [[Helena Cain]], joins ''Galactica'' approximately 6 months into their exile (See the series [[Timeline (RDM)|timeline]] for special information about this milestone).

''Pegasus'' and ''Galactica'' destroy two [[Basestar (RDM)|basestars]] as well as a critical Cylon support ship known as the [[Resurrection Ship]]. After Admiral Cain's death, President [[Laura Roslin]] promotes William Adama to Admiral, restoring him to overall Fleet command, but now with two battlestars at his disposal ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).

== Equipment ==
[[Image:BSG-KEW-Turret.jpg|thumb|One of ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> large [[KEW|cannon]] turrets]]
''Galactica'' shares the same overall technical specifications as other original Colonial battlestars of [[Galactica type battlestar|her class]], with the following key differences and qualifications:

===Available Flight Pods===
Only ''Galactica's'' port [[flight pod]] is in service. The starboard flight pod was enclosed and pressurized as the main museum display facility for her pending decommission. It is violently depressurized after a [[Heavy Raider]] crashes into it ([[Scattered]]). No episode since "[[Valley of Darkness]]" addresses the status of the flight pod since its depressurization.

===Nuclear Warheads===
''Galactica'' had five nuclear warheads as of "[[Bastille Day]]." Commander [[William Adama]] uses one warhead to destroy a Cylon [[Basestar (RDM)|basestar]] ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Dr. [[Gaius Baltar]] cannibalizes one to use in his [[Cylon Detector]], which he later gives to [[Gina]], who detonates it aboard ''[[Cloud Nine]]''. This leaves ''Galactica'' with three warheads (It is unknown how many nuclear warheads ''Pegasus'' still had when it encountered ''Galactica'', and they may have pooled their nuclear ordnance stockpiles since then).

===Vipers===
Prior to the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', ''Galactica'' has at maximum thirty-four Vipers, of which at least six are Mark VIIs (c.f. [[Viper tally]]).

''Galactica'' receives additional supplies from ''Pegasus'' since her arrival that helps in repair and refurbishment of her original fighter complement; more recently, she receives new Mark VII Vipers built aboard ''Pegasus'' using raw materials mined from an asteroid and the advanced battlestar's Viper construction facilities ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus,]] [[Scar]]).

===Raptors===
The number of [[Raptor|Raptors]] available to ''Galactica'' is portrayed inconsistently. The current assumption is that the battlestar has at least five Raptors, having left [[Ragnar Anchorage]] with at least eight (c.f. [[Raptor tally]]).

===Other Craft===
*''Galactica'' currently posesses two [[Heavy Raider|Heavy Raiders]]. One is hit by ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> defensive fire and crashes into the starboard flight pod with unknown damage ([[Scattered]]). The other returns in operational status from Caprica ([[Home, Part I]]). One of ''Galactica'''s [[Heavy Raider]]s is relieved of its FTL navigation system for use on the rescue mission to [[Caprica]] ([[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]).
*An experimental stealth fighter, the [[Blackbird]], is constructed using spare parts ([[Flight of the Phoenix]]) and used in a critically successful reconnaissance mission to explore the nature of what comes to be known as the [[Resurrection Ship]]. The Blackbird is later destroyed after completing her last mission during the [[Battle of the Resurrection Ship]] ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]).
*Mentioned in a couple of episodes, [[Galactica]] possesses fuel tankers used to supply fuel to Vipers without the need to dock with [[Galactica]] (it has yet to be described let alone seen in the series).

=== Crew ===
Before the attack, ''Galactica'' has approximately 2,800 crewmen, while awaiting its decommissioning. By the time of the arrival of ''[[Pegasus (RDM)|Pegasus]]'', attrition has reduced this number to about 2,660. (c.f. [[Crew tally]])
*Between "[[Act of Contrition]]," and "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]," ''Galactica's'' offensive capability is also greatly hampered by the number of [[List of Pilots|qualified pilots]] available, and their lack of flight simulators with which to train more. Since ''Galactica''<nowiki>'s</nowiki> reunion with ''Pegasus'', this has ceased to be an issue ([[Scar]]).

[[Image:Mini gal side viper.jpg|right|thumb|A stricken and slowly spinning ''Galactica'' after a nuclear missile strike. [[Kara Thrace|Starbuck's]] [[Viper Mark II|Viper]] closes in to survey.]]
====Senior Staff before the founding of New Caprica====
*Admiral [[William Adama]] - Commanding officer
*Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] - [[Executive officer]]
*Captain [[Aaron Kelly]] - [[LSO]], Second officer
*Major (Doctor) [[Cottle]] - [[CMO]]
*Captain [[Kara Thrace]] - [[CAG]]
*Lieutenant Felix Gaeta - [[Tactical officer]], Senior Officer of the Watch
*Chief Petty Officer [[Galen Tyrol]] - Chief of the Deck
*Sergeant [[Hadrian]] - [[Master-at-Arms]]
*Petty Officer 2nd Class [[Anastasia Dualla]] - Communications officer

====Former On-screen Members of the Senior Staff====
*Captain [[Lee Adama]] - [[CAG]] (Promoted to Commander and assigned as ''Pegasus'' CO)

==Related Imagery==
<gallery>
Image:Galactica Ortho copy.jpg|''Galactica'' - Rendering by [[Zoic]]    
Image:BSG Ortho Bottom.jpg|''Galactica'' - Rendering by [[Zoic]]    
Image:Pointdefence2 101 1080i.jpg|''Galactica's'' point defence batteries in action    
</gallery>

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Battlestars]]
[[Category:Battlestars (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[es:Galactica (RDM)]]
[[de:Galactica (RDM)]]

{{featured article}}

Pegasus (TRS)

2006-10-09T03:02:35Z

Jtal: /* Equipment */

:''For the second-season episode, see [[Pegasus (episode)]]. For the Original Series ''Pegasus'', see [[Pegasus (TOS)]].''

{{Ship Data|
image= BSPegasus.jpg
| title= Pegasus (BS 62)
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| crew= Approximately 1,750
| co= [[Lee Adama]]
| xo= [[Anastasia Dualla]]
| role= Carrier / Battleship hybrid
| weapons= Primary and point-defense [[KEW|Kinetic Energy Weapons]], conventional missiles, nuclear warheads, Vipers, Raptors
| status= Active
| img= Y
}}

'''''Pegasus'' (BS 62)''' is a [[Mercury class battlestar|''Mercury'' class battlestar]] which was docked at the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] for a scheduled overhaul during the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|Cylon attack]]. After escaping the destruction of the shipyards, ''Pegasus'' began tracking a Cylon taskforce which ultimately reunites them with a [[The Fleet (RDM)|refugee fleet]] being guarded by [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestar]] [[Galactica (RDM)|''Galactica'']], leaving ''Pegasus'' the only other battlestar besides ''Galactica'' known to have survived the destruction of the Twelve Colonies.

''Pegasus'' commander Admiral [[Helena Cain]] is succeeded after her murder ([[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]) by [[Jack Fisk]], who in turn is also murdered after running afoul of the fleet's illicit black market ([[Black Market]]). ''Pegasus'' is briefly commanded by engineer-turned-commander [[Barry Garner]], who is killed saving the ship during the [[Battle of the Binary Star System]]. ''Pegasus'' is currently commanded by Commander [[Lee Adama]], son of the Fleet's supreme commander, Admiral [[William Adama]].

''Pegasus'' becomes unofficially known as "The Beast" amongst the Fleet, although it is not known if the nickname comes from her tenacity in combat or its sordid crew history ([[The Captain's Hand]]).

== Fleet Details ==
'''Designation''': warship, [[battlestar]] type, [[Mercury class battlestar|''Mercury'' class battlestar]] 
'''Deployment''': Formerly an element of [[62nd Battlestar Group]] 
'''Current Status''': One of [[Galactica (RDM)|two]] remaining Colonial military units. Currently under the command of Commander [[Lee Adama]].

==History==
Presumed lost with the rest of the Colonial military fleet, ''Pegasus'' actually managed to escape the destruction of the Colonies when Admiral [[Helena Cain]] ordered a [[blind jump]]. While saving the battlestar, it was not the end of their troubles. An indeterminate amount of time later, the [[cylon agent]] known as [[Gina]] allowed a party of [[Cylon Centurion|Cylon Centurions]] to board the ship, resulting in approximately 700 deaths. When Gina was found out, she killed 7 men before she was subdued. Once she was imprisoned, ''Pegasus''' commander instituted a new policy of Cylon interrogation - brutal gangrape.

Although ''Pegasus'' is advanced enough to have the [[Command Navigation Program]] installed, which the Cylons used as a backdoor, ''Pegasus'' had just checked in for a three-month refit at the time of the Cylon attack, and as such, almost all of its networked [[Computers|computer]] systems were offline. As a result, the Cylons were not able to immobilize the ship using computer infiltration. This, combined with the sheer luck of not being one of the first ships at the shipyards that the Cylons focused their attack on, the fact that the nuclear detonations temporarily blinded the Cylon [[DRADIS]] and Admiral Cain's order to just randomly jump anywhere safe immediately, allowed ''Pegasus'' to escape.

After the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]], ''Pegasus'' occupied itself with hit-and-run attacks on various Cylon assets. It participated in a bold assault on a staging area filled with fifteen squadrons of [[Raider]]s. When Cain's long-time [[Executive officer]] expressed hesitancy to launch the ships' fighters against such odds, Cain publicly executed him on the bridge and promoted [[Jack Fisk]] to replace him. Fisk tells this story (and later recants it) while drunk to Colonel [[Saul Tigh|Tigh]], which Tigh believed to be true when he recounts it in turn to Commander Adama.

Some time later, ''Pegasus'' discovered that a Cylon fleet it was tracking appeared to be jumping, not randomly, but to systems with natural resources. The battlestar accidentally encountered [[The Fleet (RDM)|the Fleet]] led by battlestar ''[[Galactica]]'' when ''Pegasus'' jumped ahead to scout the Cylon target's projected next position (as it turned out, the Cylons were jumping to systems ''Galactica'' had passed through or explored). Cain assumes overall command of the Fleet and began transferring supplies and many personnel between the two battlestars, including Captain [[Lee Adama]] and Lieutenant [[Kara Thrace]]. Cain appeared unconcerned with the needs of the civilians and their ships, a problem noted to Commander Adama by President [[Laura Roslin]].

Chief [[Galen Tyrol|Tyrol]] mentioned during his interrogation by Colonel [[Saul Tigh]] that he served aboard a number of battlestars in his military career, including ''Pegasus'' ([[Resistance (episode)|Resistance]]). If Admiral Cain ever knew him during this time, she made no mention of it, and had no reservations sentencing him and [[Karl Agathon]] to death when they inadvertently kill Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne]], Cain's chief "Cylon interrogator". [[William Adama]], commander of ''Galactica'', refused to permit the execution, precipitating an armed standoff between the two ships ([[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]).

==Pegasus Fleet==

It was later revealed that ''Pegasus'' originally had its own small fleet of 15 civilian ships, found about a week after the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies]]. The tiny caravan was equipped with FTL drives and weapons. Rather than defending them (as ''Galactica'' had at [[Ragnar Anchorage]]), Admiral Cain saw them as potential spare parts for ''Pegasus'', and decided that ''Pegasus' '' military needs were a priority over them. The civilian ships were stripped for parts, including their weapons and FTL drives, marooning them and leaving them completely at the mercy of the Cylons when Cain left.

However not all of the civilians were left to die: after looking over the passenger lists, Cain selected those civilians who she thought would be of value (such as [[Peter Laird]], an aeronautical engineer), forcibly drafting them into her crew. However, 15 'selectees' aboard the civilian transport ''[[Scylla]]'' were traveling with their families and refused to leave without them. Admiral Cain ordered her marines to kill two families (men, women, and children) to shock the rest into submission. ''Pegasus'' then abandoned the civilian ships to pursue Admiral Cain's campaign of hit-and-run attacks against Cylon forces. ([[Resurrection Ship, Part I]])

==Equipment==
[[Image:TheEnemysGateIsDown3.jpg|thumb|right|Pegasus taking heavy fire]]
In the [[Pegasus (Extended Version)|Extended Cut]] of the episode "Pegasus" Admiral Cain states that the ship is nearly twice the size of ''Galactica'', but needs only half the crew. This probably refers to either the dual [[landing bay|landing bays]] or the ship's volume, but not its length. The decreased manpower requirement stems from increased computerization and automation. This is also evident in the comparatively small size of the ''Pegasus'' [[CIC]].
[[Image:PegasusForeBatteries.jpg|thumb|right|Pegasus firing her forward batteries]]

''Pegasus'' operates at least four [[Viper Mark VII]] squadrons, all verbally identified in the episode "[[The Captain's Hand]]":
*[[Red Squadron (RDM)|Red Squadron]]
*[[Yellow Squadron]]
*[[Green Squadron]]
*[[Blue Squadron (RDM)|Blue Squadron]]

It is possible that these designations are just [[wireless]] code names and not formal, standing squadrons. The colors and group leaders could be assigned on an ad-hoc basis, while a more formal structure exists in the background; such as the [[Vigilantes]] on ''Galactica''.

''Pegasus'' has [[Viper Mark VII]] production facilities ([[Scar]]). This is a capability that would allow the ship to be self sufficient on extended deployments, so long as the battlestar has sufficient means to gather the raw materials necessary for construction.

In [[Resurrection Ship]] the ''Pegasus'' is shown to have built in Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) generators as it deviates missiles away from the ''Pegasus''

==Crew==
====Senior Staff before the founding of New Caprica====
*Commander [[Lee Adama]] - Commanding officer
*Lieutenant [[Hoshi]] - Communications or Tactical Officer

====Former Members of the Senior Staff====
*Admiral [[Helena Cain]] - Commanding officer (Killed by [[Gina]])
*Commander [[Jack Fisk]] - Commanding officer (Killed by racketeers in the [[Black market (organization)|black market]])
*Commander [[Barry Garner]] - Commanding officer (Killed in action)
*Captain [[Cole Taylor]] - Commander, Air Group (Demoted by Admiral Cain in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]")
*Captain [[Kara Thrace]] - Commander, Air Group (Replaced Cole Taylor. Transferred to ''[[Galactica (RDM)|Galactica]]'' in "[[The Captain's Hand]]")
*Lieutenant [[Alistair Thorne]] - Cylon interrogator (Killed by [[Galen Tyrol]])

==Notes==
*According to [[David Eick]]'s video blog, it would have been impossible to afford creating new sets for the entire interior of ''Pegasus'' on the budget of an episodic television show. This expense was circumvented when a year beforehand Ron D. Moore and David Eick bought (for next to nothing) the abandoned sets of the failed pilot for the FOX network's "Lost In Space" remake, directed by John Woo. The production team then held onto the sets hoping to find some later use for them, eventually using them for [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]. The sets were then radically redesigned and painted to give them the aesthetic look of ''Galactica'', but sleeker and more advanced.
*This ship is named after the winged horse from Greek mythology (see the [[Wikipedia:Pegasus|Wikipedia article]]).

== Related Imagery ==

<gallery>
Image:Pegasus01.jpg|''Pegasus'' - Front view    
Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_1a.jpg|''Pegasus'' - Vipers landing    
Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_5a.jpg|''Pegasus'' - Gun batteries    
Image:Pegasus_Hi-Res_3a.jpg|''Pegasus'' - Next to ''Galactica''    
Image:Pegasus 217 1080i rescale.jpg|''Pegasus'' - Side angle    
Image:Pegasus2_217_1080i_rescale.jpg|''Pegasus'' - Reverse side    
</gallery>

{{Ships}}

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Battlestars]]
[[Category:Battlestars (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (RDM)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (RDM)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (RDM)]]
[[Category:RDM]]

[[es:Pegasus (RDM)]]

Precipice

2006-10-09T02:26:00Z

Jtal: /* Questions */

{{Episode Data
| title= Precipice
| image=Season 3 - Promo - Epi 1 - 2 - C-Number Eight, Adama, Helo.jpg
| season= 3
| episode= 2
| guests=
| writer= [[Ronald D. Moore]]
| story=
| director= [[Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]
| production=
| rating=
| US airdate= 2006-10-06
| UK airdate=
| dvd=
| population=
| prev= [[Occupation]]
| next= [[Exodus, Part I]]
}}

== Overview ==
:''After the suicide bombing, the [[Cylons (RDM) |Cylons]] institute stricter controls on the human population on [[New Caprica]]. Aboard ''[[Galactica]]'', plans for the rescue from New Caprica move forward now that communication with the resistance has been established.''

== Summary ==
*[[Gaius Baltar]] visits [[Laura Roslin]] (gathered up in detention apparently for his need) in her detention cell to discuss the suicide bombings, after which he releases her.
*After [[Duck]]'s suicide bombing in an effort to kill Baltar, the Cylons begin a crackdown and round up random civilians.
*[[Felix Gaeta]] continues to give information to the resistance, though [[Galen Tyrol]] is unaware that Gaeta is his source inside the presidency. Tyrol calls Gaeta a collaborator.
*Admiral [[William Adama|Adama]] swears in [[Sharon Agathon]] as a Colonial officer and sends her down to New Caprica to help the resistance.
*[[Saul Tigh]], Chief Tyrol, and [[Samuel Anders]] decide to meet Agathon in a canyon outside of town after she [[FTL|Jumps]] inside the planetary atmosphere.
*[[Ellen Tigh]], after being threatened with more harm to Colonel Tigh, gives the Cylons information on where the meeting is to take place.
*Another suicide bombing, attacking the power plant and causing severe damage, moves the Cylons to more drastic actions.
*The Cylons force Baltar to sign an execution order for 200 civilians, including [[Cally Tyrol]], Roslin and [[Tom Zarek]]. The detainees are transported outside the city.
*As Sharon Agathon and Anders formulate their plans, they are ambushed by Centurions.
*While stopping to ostensibly let the detainees stretch their legs, [[Jammer]] cuts Cally Tyrol's bonds and tells her to run from the area. As as she gets away, [[Cylon Centurion]]s show up to execute the detainees with Zarek pulling Roslin away from the front of the crowd. As Cally Tyrol runs through the forest, the sound of automatic gunfire rings out.

== Questions ==

*If [[Sharon Agathon]] is killed during her mission on [[New Caprica]], will she be able to download into a new body?
**Download is a probability, but she would be immediately captured as an intelligence source.
*Where will [[Cally Tyrol]] be able to run to? She was ordered to face execution by the Colonial Government.
*Why did the Cylons abandon their plan for a public execution?
*If viewers are to assume that the gunfire at the end of the episode is not from the Centurions, then who is firing?
**There is the possibility, however remote, that it was the New Caprica Police who opened fire on the Centurions. However, story-wise that might be a cop-out, and it is unlikely that the NCP would take such action, Jammer's release of Cally not withstanding.
**Another possibility is that the gunfire we heard is somehow coming from Sharon/Anders and their rescue team. Of course they would've had to escape/defeat the ambush and somehow come upon the execution scene, and these events appear to be happening concurrently.
*Is Gaeta showing rather unusual behavior? If so, how much will his role as "inside man" be affected?
**Gaeta is witnessing the oppression of humanity at the highest level, from a man he once admired. It is probable Gaeta's stress level is affecting his behavior.
*What is the role of the five unseen Cylon models in the occupation? Are they present and simply remaining off-camera for the benefit of the audience? Have they attempted to hide themselves from the Colonials?
*Why did no Leoben Conoy copies take part in the deliberation on ''Colonial One'' over whether or not to issue the execution order?
**Conoy's motives on New Caprica appear to be entirely selfish—he is there for Kara Thrace only.
***Even so, that is true of only one Conoy. Why have no others been seen participating in the decision making process so far?
*[[Cally Tyrol]] and [[Sharon Agathon]] both took their husbands' names upon marriage, as did [[Ellen Tigh]], [[Caroline Adama]] and [[Sesha Abinell]]. Are [[Anastasia Dualla]] and [[Kara Thrace]] now Anastasia Adama, and Kara Anders, respectively?
*What is the relationship between Caprica-Six's shooting and the reappearance of [[Cylon-Related_Hallucinations#Baltar.27s_Internal_Six|Baltar's Internal Six]]?
**It is possible that two events are not directly related. The reappearance was not immediate, but happened after [[Number Five]] and [[Cavil]] continued to threaten Baltar with death. Since Caprica-Six's support was gone, Baltar was under severe stress and thought that he might likely die. Internal-Six has shown a tendency to appear at those times, especially if Baltar's survival is at stake.
*Now that the Lt. Sharon Agathon has landed on the surface of New Caprica, how can she be distingushed from other [[Number Eight]]s there?
**Other than her [[flight suit]], it remains unclear how [[Sharon Agathon]] will be distinguished from other [[Number Eight]]s. Admiral Adama confirmed that Cylon Centurions are not sentient, and may take instruction from Agathon because of her true nature.
***How will ''humans'' identify Sharon Agathon should she ever leave their sight? How, for example, can she ever be safely returned to ''[[Galactica]]''?
**On a related note, how did Jammer identify the particular Eight he talked to as Boomer?
**As indicated by Adama earlier in the episode, Centurions are incapable of distinguishing each individual Cylon copy of a model (in this case, Number Eight), as they have limited sentience.
*If the Centurions are incapable of distinguishing between individual copies of a model, why would they fire on Sharon Agathon, who should be just another Eight to them?
**Agathon's back was turned to the Centurions at the time before the shooting began. They may not have registered her presence in the group.
**As referenced above, her Colonial-issue flight suit may have given her away. No "legitimate" Eight on New Caprica would need to wear one.
**The Centurions were firing in the general direction of Sharon Agathon to hit the insurgents, not at her.
* What will happen if Sharon Agathon discovers that [[Hera]]'s death was faked? Will she renege on her oath to Adama -- and how will this affect her sympathies to Adama, who would clearly be "in the know" regarding this hoax?
* Why didn't Duck tell Tyrol that Jammer had joined the New Caprica Police?
**He may not have known until the graduation ceremony, since the members of the police force are secretive about their identities.
*Did Kacey fall down the stairs or was she pushed?
**A small smile from Conoy in the hospital suggests some foul play.
*Given that Zarek wanted nothing to do with Baltar's puppet administration, who replaced him as Vice President?
*Given Zarek's imprisonment for four months, what of Zarek's various supporters? Do they still exist on New Caprica or on ''[[Astral Queen]]''? If so, what of them?
*Is [[Kacey]] all that [[Leoben Conoy]] claims her to be?

== Analysis ==
*We learn a little bit more about the nature of the various humanoid Cylons here. Apparently a single copy is usually qualified to speak for its entire model. Interestingly, [[Caprica-Six]] was unable to dissuade her "sisters" from voting to execute the dissidents.
*As one of the Cavils notes, adherence to the Cylon creed has become increasingly perfunctory. The Cylons sought the President's signature as a mere formality.
*If [[Leoben Conoy]]'s story is true, [[Kacey]] can't be older than 16 months. As of this episode, it has been about 27 months since the [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|fall of the Colonies]]. Kara Thrace's incarceration at the [[Farms|Farm]] on Caprica took place about two months after the fall of the Colonies.
*Even if Ellen Tigh's actions are as reprehensible as ever, her motivations this time around are rather more laudable. These two episodes seem to indicate that she truly does care for her husband.
*Cavil informs Ellen Tigh that they released Saul Tigh so that he may continue leading the resistance, thereby ensuring attacks against the Cylons, such as the two bombings that followed his release. These bombings and their results reinforce Cavil's argument that instilling fear and exerting total control over the population is the only viable solution.
*The Cylons' condemnation to suicide bombings is strikingly hypocritical, in light of the fact that a [[Number Five]] used the same tactic after boarding ''Galactica'' in "[[Litmus]]."

== Notes ==
*"[[Occupation]]/Precipice" was awarded the [[Awards and Honors|IGN.com Editor's choice award]], following a review in which it recieved a rating of 10/10.
*"Occupation" and "Precipice" were edited as one 2-hr episode with only one introduction. However, in the podcast, [[Ronald D. Moore]] indicates the "beginning" of "Precipice" as the scene with Baltar and Roslin in the detention cell.
*In the podcast, [[Ronald D. Moore]] states that references to "The Twist" and "The Swirl" are a homage to ''[[Wikipedia:Seinfeld |Seinfeld]]''. The episode in question is "[[Wikipedia:The Fusilli Jerry |The Fusilli Jerry]]."
*Felix Gaeta's given name, first revealed in "[[Final Cut]]," is spoken out loud for the first time.
*Caprica-Valerii has married Karl Agathon and taken his last name. She continues to be confined to her cell, but it has been decorated and furnished. Ironically enough, she still calls him "Helo."
*Sharon Agathon and William Adama have continued to develop the rapport which they established in "[[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]." In this episode, he comissions her as a lieutenant and releases her from her cell.
*[[Number Three]]'s claim that Caprica-Six's assault on her was the first case of Cylon-on-Cylon violence in their history is not really true. Sharon Agathon shot and "killed" another Eight outside the Delphi spaceport on Caprica. The Cylons may not look on this in the same light because it was within one model. Alternatively, Number Eight may have been unable to identify her shooter. This is plausible because that copy was looking at Helo when she was shot, and afterwards could only stare up into the sky for a few seconds before dying and presumably downloading.
**Actually, Sharon Agathon also shot a Six previous to that, but we may presume that Six consented as part of the Cylons' plan for Helo.
*Ironically, a Five shoots Caprica-Six in the head shortly after Three's statement. Cavil indicates, however, that she won't be "boxed," as Caprica feared in "[[Downloaded]]."
*The shooting of the captives and Cally Tyrol's escape at the end of the episode are an homage to ''[[Wikipedia:The Great Escape|The Great Escape]]''.
*Baltar's Internal-Six appears only after Caprica-Six is killed.
*This episode has the second highest number of guest stars. Only the [[Miniseries]] had more credited stars.

== Noteworthy Dialogue ==
*''Discussing suicide bombings:''
:'''Galen Tyrol''': This is crazy. You know, we'll need to figure out whose side we're on?
:'''Saul Tigh''': Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction where ever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that.

*''After being arrested, held without charge and carted to a remote location:''
:'''Tom Zarek''': Laura.. That election last year. You tried to steal it, didn't you?
:'''Laura Roslin''': Yes, Tom. I did.
:'''Tom Zarek''': (laughs) Ah... I wish you'd gone through with it.
:'''Laura Roslin''': So do I.

*''Talking in a cell:''
:'''Cally''': "...frak you Sharon, you stupid frakked-up toaster. How many times do I have to shoot you anyway?"

*''After being slapped by Roslin for accussing her of working for the Cylons:''
:'''Saul Tigh''': You see, little things like that they don't matter anymore. Fact, not too frakking much really matter anymore. I got one job here lady, and one job only. To disrupt the Cylons, make them worry about the ant hill they stirred up down here so they're distracted and out of position when the old man show up in orbit. The bombings, they got the Cylons' attention, they really got their attention. And I am not giving that up.
:'''Laura Roslin''': We are talking about people blowing themselves up.
:'''Tigh''': You know, sometimes I think that you've got ice water in those veins. And other times, I just think that you're just a naive little school teacher. I've sent men on suicide missions in two wars now, and let me tell you something. It don't make a godsdamn bit of difference whether they're riding in a Viper or walking out onto a parade ground. In the end they're just as dead. (pauses) So, take your piety, and your moralizing, and your high-minded principles, and stick 'em somewhere safe until you're off the rock and sitting in your nice, cushy chair on Colonial One again. (stands) I've got a war to fight (leaves).

*''As the Cylons try to force Balter to sign the execution order, following Number Five's shooting of Capirca-Six in the head:''
:'''Baltar''': "Oh, God."
:'''Cavil''': "She'll be back..."
:'''Cavil''': "... but if he pulls that trigger now, you won't."

== Official Statements ==

== Guest Stars ==
*[[Lucy Lawless]] as [[Number Three]]
*[[Matthew Bennett]] as [[Number Five]]
*[[Callum Keith Rennie]] as [[Leoben Conoy]]
*[[Rick Worthy]] as [[Simon]]
*[[Dean Stockwell]] as [[Cavil]]
*[[Richard Hatch]] as [[Tom Zarek]]
*[[Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Felix Gaeta]]
*[[Luciana Carro]] as Lt. [[Louanne Katraine|Louanne "Kat" Katraine]]
*[[Leah Cairns]] as Lt. [[Margaret Edmondson|Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson]]
*[[Tahmoh Penikett]] as Lt. [[Karl Agathon|Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
*[[Christian Tessier]] as [[Tucker Clellan|Tucker "Duck" Clellan]]
*[[Nicki Clyne]] as [[Cally Henderson Tyrol|Cally Tyrol]]
*[[Aaron Douglas]] as [[Galen Tyrol]]
*[[Michael Trucco]] as [[Samuel Anders]]
*[[Kandyse McClure]] as [[Anastasia Dualla]]
*[[Dominic Zamprogna]] as [[James Lyman|James "Jammer" Lyman]]
*[[Brad Dryborough]] as Lt. [[Hoshi]]
*[[Rekha Sharma]] as [[Tory Foster]]
*[[Michael Hogan]] as [[Saul Tigh]]
*[[Kate Vernon]] as [[Ellen Tigh]]

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

{{episode list (RDM season 3)}}

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: RDM]]
[[Category:Episodes written by Ronald D. Moore]]
[[Category:Episodes directed by Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]]

[[de:Precipice]]