Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Battlestar (TOS)

2016-08-24T03:44:55Z

Jordan Edmond: Removed a link going to wrong page.

:''For information on the battlestars of the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]], see [[Galactica type battlestar]] and [[Mercury class battlestar]]. For information on the battlestar seen in the [[2003 Video Game]], see [[Galactica (2003 Video Game)]].''

'''Battlestars''' are warships built in direct response to the [[Thousand Yahren War|generational war]] with the [[Cylons (TOS)|Cylons]].

{{Ship Data
| image= battlestarformation.jpg
| title=Battlestar
| race= Colonial
| type= Military
| ftl= Yes
| propol= 2 x FTL engines, 2 x sublight engines, 2 x Solium main energizers ([[Fire in Space]])
| crew= 496 - 1,012
| role= Carrier / battleship hybrid
| weapons= 15 x laser batteries, 12 x Solonite air-to-air missiles, 1 x Heavy Mega Pulsar Cannons, 75 Viper fighters, 12 Landram armoured ground vehicles, Six unarmed shuttlecraft {{citation needed}}
| width= (approx): 1,672ft (510m) (flight pod to flight pod)
| height=
| length= (approx): 4,143-4,166ft (1,263-1,255m)
| weight=
| otherdi= Flight Pods<br/>'''Length''' (approx): 1,977ft (603m)<br/>'''Width''' (approx): 351ft (107m)
}}

== Overview ==

The first battlestars were introduced into Colonial forces around 500 [[yahren]] into the [[Thousand Yahren War|war]], and proved formidable when placed against the technically-superior Cylon basestars. Many battlestars were totally destroyed during significant battles.

==Known Battlestars==
The eight battlestars<ref>The Costume Department at New West has indicated that three further battlestars may have been referenced had the show been renewed: the ''[[Solaria]]'', ''Cerberus'' and ''Prometheus''. This information, however, is not [[canon|canonical]].</ref> specifically mentioned in the Original Series are:

* ''[[Acropolis]]'' - mentioned in connection with the attack at Cimtar, and so assumed to be one of the battlestars seen near the moon
* ''[[Atlantia (TOS)|Atlantia]]'' - destroyed by the Cylons at [[Cimtar (TOS)|Cimtar]] ([[Saga of a Star World]])
* ''[[Columbia (TOS)|Columbia]]<ref>Many fans consider ''Columbia'' to be the battlestar class name. However, this is [[fan fiction]]: No substantiated class name has been given by official sources to the battlestars of the Original Series.</ref>'' - destroyed by the Cylons at Cimtar ([[The Gun on Ice Planet Zero, Part I (TOS)|The Gun on Ice Planet Zero]])
* ''[[Galactica (TOS)|Galactica]]''
* ''[[Pacifica]]'' - mentioned in connection with the attack at Cimtar, and so assumed to be one of the battlestars seen near the moon
* ''[[Pegasus (TOS)|Pegasus]]'' - presumed destroyed at the [[Battle of Gamoray]] ([[The Living Legend, Part II (TOS)|The Living Legend]])
* ''[[Rycon]]'' - destroyed at the [[Battle of the Cosmara Archipelago (TOS)|Battle of the Cosmara Archipelago]] ([[Take the Celestra]])
* ''[[Triton (TOS)|Triton]]'' - mentioned in connection with the attack at Cimtar, and so assumed to be one of the battlestars seen near the moon

<div style="clear:both;"></div>

==Myth of the Twelve Battlestars (Original Series)==
[[Image:Turrets.JPG|thumb|left|A battlestar's laser batteries fights off Raiders ([[Saga of a Star World]]).]]
Within [[Fan fiction|fan circles]], it has generally been assumed there were twelve original battlestars, given the number of Colonies. This appeared to be supported by ''[[Encyclopedia Galactica]]'', a [[non-canon]]ical publication released in 1979.<ref>{{cite_book|last=Kraus|first=Bruce|authorlink=|authorlinkurl=|coauthors=|year=1979|title=[[Encyclopedia Galactica]]|publisher=|location=|id=|pages=19}}</ref> However, [[Glen A. Larson]] has stated that there was never any decision to have a specific number of battlestars, nor did the Original Series state that only twelve battlestars were built. During the series' run, only eight battlestars are seen or mentioned. Given the length of the [[Thousand-Yahren War]], it seems likely that far more than twelve of these warships were constructed.

''(For contrast, in the [[Battlestar Galactica (RDM)|Re-imagined Series]] continuity, it is stated at the start of the [[Miniseries]] that twelve [[Galactica type battlestar|battlestars]] were initially built during the [[Cylon War]]. However, in the years of and after the Cylon War, an additional 120 battlestars of various classes were built in that continuity. Like its Original Series counterparts, [[Fall of the Twelve Colonies|almost all]] of these battlestars are destroyed in an elaborate Cylon subterfuge.)''
<div style="clear:both;"></div>

== Notes on Dimensions ==

The length and beam figures given here are based on research carried out by [http://ravensbranch.allen.com/galacticasize.html Todd Boyce], a computer animator. There are many differing claims to the actual size of the original battlestars, ranging from some 2,000 feet<ref name="starlog aug 78">{{cite magazine|quotes= |last= Meyers |first= Richard |authorlink= |coauthors= |year= 1978 |month= August |title= Get Ready For... BATTLE STAR "GALACTICA" |magazine=Starlog |volume= |issue= |pages=52-53 |id= |url= |accessdate= }}</ref> (the accepted length in a number of gaming systems) through to 2-3 miles in overall length.

Interviews with series creator [[Glen A. Larson]] and [[John Dykstra]], the Visual Effects supervisor for the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|Original Series]] stated that the original ''[[Galactica#Original Series Galactica|Galactica]]'' was around a mile (1.6km) long. If the scale of the master model used for filming was set at 1/960, then the overall length of ''Galactica'' and her sister ships would be some 6,080ft (1,853m) - or one [[Wikipedia:Nautical Mile|nautical mile]]. However, there is no confirmation available that 1/960 (1 inch = 80ft) was in fact the scale of the model, and the figures have thus been "back engineered" to fit the case. (It should be noted that Dykstra admitted that "[e]verything has to be exaggerated and the fill ratio of the screen has to be higher".<ref name="starlog aug 78"/>)

[[Image:Tos-gal-dim.jpg|left|thumb|Calculating a battlestar's size (credit: Todd Boyce / Universal ABC)]]
In undertaking his work, Boyce utilised an established baseline for his calculations: the full-size mock-up of a Viper built for filming purposes. This mock-up measured some 28.5ft (9m) in length and a wingspan of some 12.5ft (4m), and formed a means by which Boyce could take key shots from various episodes, combine them with a scale model of ''Galactica'' and extrapolate a reasonably-consistent set of measurements. Thus: using film footage alone, Boyce was able to determine the length of ''Galactica'' to be some 4,143ft (1,263m), while use of a scale model produced a figure of some 4,166ft (1,270m): an acceptable difference of some 23ft (7m). What is more, these measurements appear consistent with the overall size of the Viper launch tubes (calculated at some 16ft (5m) in diameter, based on the wingspan of the full-size mock-up and images of Vipers being launched).

Given this degree of similarity in final calculations, these figures have been adopted here as the probable dimensions of the Original Series battlestars. However, in using these figures, it should be noted that:

* Boyce also used a [[Cylon Raider#Original Series Raider|Cylon Raider]] as a benchmark for his calculations, and produced an overall length for ''Galactica'' at between 12,818ft (3,907m) and 21,210ft (6,465m) (2.4 and 4 miles). However, these measurements can be discounted on the grounds that:
** They are initially based on assumed data: a shot of a Cylon Raider apparently "overflying" a Colonial Viper. However, no vertical separation distance between the two can be calculated, leading to a completely arbitrary figure (39ft/12m) for the wingspan of the Raider
** These figures would yield launch tubes between some 50ft (15m) and 82ft (25m) in diameter - which is clearly not supported by film of Viper launches.
* Boyce also used close-up shots of Viper launches to try and calculate the size of ''Galactica'', and arrived at a figure of 2,712ft (827m), with the flight pods measuring 1,294ft (394m). However, these figures cannot be taken at face value, as they would render the Viper launch tubes with a 10.4ft (3m) diameter, making them too small to contain Vipers.

Note: As Boyce used the mock-up Viper he made a fatal assumption of it being exactly in scale with the actual on screen SFX model.
That is unfortunately not the case. The mock-up Viper is smaller and less detailed, hence, cheaper and easier to construct. The difference is (exactly) 10% resulting in a length of 10 m and a wingspan of 4.5-5 m. This brings the Battlestar to about 1400 m.
As BSG was made in light of Star Wars there is the possibility that it's size was intended to be the same as a Stardestoyer (1.5 km).

Note by the researcher: The research page points out that there are proportional differences between the mock-up and the studio model of the Viper, and that the mock-up is used because it had definitive dimensions whereas the filming miniature does not. The studio model is longer in proportion, but it is not necessarily taller or wider (which a second line of research investigated). More definitive research on the matter would need to take place before any claims such as it being "10% larger" could be verified since there are many factors to consider.

Likewise, a Raider overflying a Viper, while not a truly accurate means of measurement, does in fact set the largest dimensions the Raider could possibly be and is therefore useful in the research in demonstrating how the blueprint dimensions did not correspond with the on-screen evidence, at least in that shot. The 39ft measurement is the largest it could be in that shot which is far smaller than the mock-up would indicate. It should also be pointed out that a 39ft wingspan for the raider would yield an approximately 7ft wide cockpit - a bit tight for three Cylon Centurions to fit in.

Ultimately these are not "fatal assumptions" in the research, nor can research be "thrown out" since it is impossible to determine a truly accurate measurement of the ship with multiple valid sources of conflicting evidence. The research page clearly indicates that the reader is to decide for themselves what the results mean, and that like most science fiction shows, the effects are not suited to this kind of scrutiny.

== Updated Notes on Dimensions ==

The one missing piece of information in studies like the one above is the actual diameter of the launch tube openings on the studio miniature. As someone who has spent years studying the filming model, and has designed and helped to build a very precise replica of it that is currently on display at the EMPSFM Science Fiction Museum in Seattle, Washington (see External Links section), I know these openings were 1/4 inch in diameter.

Having drawn the studio miniature in precise detail, including in 3D, I determined that a 27-28 foot Viper fits inside the tubes quite nicely if the studio model scales out to one nautical mile in length. In fact, the tubes scale out to 20 feet in diameter. Anything smaller would clip the wings of the Vipers. Don't forget there are pipes, bulkheads, and other details inside the round tubes that require clearance as well. So, I'm not quite sure how you could work it out if the ship were to be substantially smaller. Also, this value does coincide with John Dykstra's estimate that was quoted in vintage magazine articles of the period.

Charles Adams, ''StarshipBuilder.com''

PS The B&W photo above should be credited to Phil Broad.

== About The Filming Model ==

The ship model for ''Galactica'' was 6 feet in length and weighed 60 pounds. The model was built from various parts from hundreds of cannibalized plastic model kits, such as those from mini-scaled battleships, land vehicles and planes from the [[w:World War II|World War II]] era, to the point that "the crew had the feeling that, if it hadn't been for World War II, ''Galactica'' (the model) would not have been possible".<ref name="starlog aug 78"/>

== Notes ==

* ''According to ''[[Encyclopedia Galactica]]'', a non-canonical piece of merchandise published in 1979:''
: Battlestars are constructed in planetary orbit. Battlestars have a maximum range of 500 light-[[yahren]] before refueling, although this can be affected by high-speed maneuvering and the use of weapons, which are powered by the same fuel source as the engines.

: Battlestars contain eight squadrons of [[Viper (TOS)|Viper]]s, in addition to being armed with "banks of turret-mounted laser cannon, strategically mounted to defend most vital areas of the ship from head-on attack" and "space-to-space torpedoes" capable of destroying larger enemy craft.

: For shielding, battlestars use a "powerful radiation field" capable of deflecting most laser attacks and heavy armor plating to dampen explosive ordnance, like torpedoes or missiles. Furthermore, battlestars are split into segments that can be sealed should the hull be compromised, so the entire ship is not lost.

: For propulsion, battlestars "are powered to sub-light speeds by twin [[solium]] [[energizer]]s that convert matter directly into propulsive force. [[Tylium]] thrusters boost the ship past the [[lightspeed|light barrier]]; on full power, speeds of light times ten have been attained."

: Battlestars are crewed by 500 people and consists of various facilities, "including a 100 bed [[life-station]], a fully equipped [[rejuvenation center]] and a variable-gravity gymnasium".<ref>{{cite_book|last=Kraus|first=Bruce|authorlink=|authorlinkurl=|coauthors=|year=1979|title=[[Encyclopedia Galactica]]|publisher=|location=|id=|pages=19-20}}</ref>

==References==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Battlestars]]
[[Category:Battlestars (TOS)]]
[[Category:Colonial]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft]]
[[Category:Colonial Craft (TOS)]]
[[Category:Colonial Military]]
[[Category:Colonial Military (TOS)]]
[[Category:Ships]]
[[Category:Ships (TOS)]]
[[Category:TOS]]
{{TOS}}

[[de:Kampfstern (TOS)]]

Becca Kelly

2013-12-20T05:26:19Z

Jordan Edmond: /* Aftermath */

{{Character Data
|photo=Beka Kelly.jpg
|seen=Blood and Chrome
|pseen=''Blood and Chrome''
|marital status= Widowed
|role=Scientist at [[Graystone Industries]], Cylon sympathizer
|death = Murdered by an [[Cylon_Models#Inorganic_Humanoids|experimental Cylon model]]
|colony= [[Picon]]<ref>[https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.513734255337213.1073741825.152443094799666&type=1]</ref>
|actor=[[Lili Bordan]]
}}

'''Becca Kelly''' is a civilian software engineer working with the [[Colonial Fleet]] during the [[First Cylon War]]. She was previously employed by [[Graystone Industries]], where she was involved in the production of [[Cylons (RDM)|Cylons]] and the last upgrade to their [[MCP|programming]] before the Cylons rebelled against the Colonies.

==Kelly's Mission==
Ten years into the war, Kelly becomes the key individual in an important covert mission for the Fleet. Ensign [[William Adama]] and [[ECO]] [[Coker Fasjovik]] are ordered to transport Kelly aboard the [[Raptor]] ''[[Wild Weasel]]'' to the [[Scorpion Fleet Shipyards]] in an apparently routine mission, but soon after departing, Kelly presents new orders from the Fleet that eventually bring them to a secret Colonial "ghost" fleet being gathered for a massive assault on the Cylons. [[Osiris|One of the ghost fleet ships]] delivers Kelly along with Adama and Fasjovik to the moon [[Djerba]], deep inside Cylon territory. Even after arriving on the ice moon, Kelly reveals nothing about the nature of her mission.

Kelly and the others set off on foot toward their objective, but are forced to take shelter at an abandoned ski lodge. During the night, Kelly opens herself emotionally to Adama and seduces him. A platoon of [[Cylon_Models#Djerba_Centurion|Centurions]] attacks the lodge several hours later, and Kelly wanders off during the fight. She is cornered by one of the Centurions, but it stops before striking, suddenly fixated on the dog tag hanging from her neck. As it scans the digital information stored in the tag, Fasjovik comes up from behind and kills it, but not before noticing that the Centurion had spared Kelly's life.

Fasjovik's suspicions about Kelly grow, and before leaving the lodge the following morning, he confronts Kelly at gunpoint. She tells Fasjovik and Adama that her mission is to upload a virus into the Cylon computer network, a move that can potentially blind the Cylons' defenses. Fasjovik relaxes, and the three complete their trek to a Cylon automated transmission relay. Kelly places her dog tag onto a computer terminal and begins the upload. However, Fasjovik glances at a computer display of the upload, instantly realizes that she is a traitor, and shoots her: the "virus" is in fact intelligence about the Colonial ghost fleet. While Fasjovik frantically explains the situation to Adama, Keely finds her own weapon and wounds Fasjovik, and then aims the gun at Adama. She claims the Cylons are only defending themselves, and that this betrayal will force the Colonies to come to the negotiating table. Adama is unconvinced, and Kelly shoots him as well. Adama's wound is minor and he is able to disarm her. He destroys her dog tag and the computer terminal, stopping the upload.

The wounded Kelly is then abandoned by Adama and Fasjovik as they search for rescue. She is discovered sometime later by an [[Cylon_Models#Inorganic_Humanoids|experimental Cylon model]], who acknowledges that Kelly is more enlightened than her fellow human beings before snapping Kelly's neck.

==Aftermath==
The Colonial admiralty somehow knew of her plans all along, and simply allowed her to go. Kelly's plan gave the Colonials a chance to feed the Cylons misinformation, and to utilize the ghost fleet in a [[Ghost Fleet Offensive|bold and successful surprise attack on Cylon targets across five sectors]].

==Personal Life==
Before the war, Kelly was married to a [[Colonial Marine]] named Ezra Barzel, who was accidentally killed by members of his own unit. The Colonial military falsely reported that Barzel had died a hero's death destroying an entire Cylon platoon single-handedly. Although the propaganda tactic deeply offended Kelly, it succeeded in boosting military enlistment (''[[Blood and Chrome]]'').

==Notes==
*Early information on Becca Kelly revealed her to be an "enigmatic, seemingly impenetrable software genius who gives [[William Adama|Adama]] a run for his money in more ways than one." <ref>http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2010/10/25/battlestar-movie-will-introduce-beka-kelly-an-enigmatic-software-genius/</ref>

== References ==
<div style="font-size:85%"><references/></div>

[[Category: A to Z]]
[[Category: Characters]]
[[Category: Characters (BAC)]]
[[Category: Characters (RDM)]]
[[Category: BAC]]
[[Category: RDM]]

[[de:Becca Kelly]]

Talk:Senior Staff of Galactica/Archive 1

2013-09-26T23:58:23Z

Jordan Edmond: /* B&C info missing */ new section

Good, but needs some work.. [[User:Shane|Shane]] <sup>([[User_Talk:Shane|T]] - [[Special:Contributions/Shane|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/Shane|E]])</sup> 23:05, 23 February 2007 (CST)
: Done working on it for tonight. Feel free to add or revise. [[User:Nwobkwr|Nwobkwr]] 23:39, 23 February 2007 (CST)

Helo isn't CIC staff anymore, he's back in his flight suit :) -[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 03:19, 24 February 2007 (CST)

== Redundant information ==

Ignoring the lacking episode title formatting (use of quotation marks), I think the whole history section is largely redundant. This is already mentioned on the [[CAG]] or [[XO]] pages for example. If something changes, people will have to edit at least two pages. I suggest moving the content to the relevant pages if it's not there already, like in the case of [[Communications Officer]]

Or if people feel that it's better to have the information in one place, linking from those pages to this one --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:12, 24 February 2007 (CST)

:I agree with the second suggestion as my original intention was to free up space on the Galactica page. Also, histories such as CO would be no where since there is no CO page. [[User:Nwobkwr|Nwobkwr]] 10:30, 24 February 2007 (CST)

== Mutiny ==

Should the "Present Senior Staff" and "Chain of Command" sections be updated (Gaeta as acting CO, Gage as tactical officer, etc.), or should we wait for the mutiny to end? [[User:Ausir|Ausir]] 12:31, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
:No. Mutineers don't get to be in org charts unless they're successful enough to be around to have staff meetings, etc, afterwards. --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:42, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

== B&C info missing ==

I've noticed that the C.O. and C.A.G. positions that were mentioned in Blood & Chrome are missing from this page, also could anyone check to see if any others are mentioned in Razor [[User:Jordan Edmond|Jordan Edmond]] 19:58, 26 September 2013 (EDT)

User:Jordan Edmond

2013-09-24T23:48:46Z

Jordan Edmond:

I am a Science Fiction Writer
I have the RaidCall channel American Writers [http://www.raidcall.com/go.php?sid=6654648&cid=1].

Talk:Faster-than-light communication/Archive 1

2013-09-19T23:27:57Z

Jordan Edmond:

== Is it really FTL? ==
It should be noted that just because the Cylons can transmit signals over long distances, that doesn't necessarily mean those signals travel faster than light. A sufficiently strong signal could (in theory) travel very long distances, especially if the Cylons have set up amplifiers at strategic points in space. Only when the time it takes for the signal to arrive is very short can we assume it's FTL. I personally think very few of the examples are FTL communication:

(Note: 1 AU = 150 million kilometers, the average distance between the Earth and the sun)
* Tracking the Olympic Carrier in "33"
** A radio signal can travel 594 million kilometers (~4 AU) in 33 minutes, which is less than the distance between Jupiter and the sun (~5 AU), and not nearly the distance between Pluto and the sun (~39 AU). Since the Fleet has shown to be able to jump from one system to the next, it's likely it did just that during the jump chase. This means the tracking on the Olympic Carrier was either an FTL signal, or the ship transmitted the jump coordinates to the Cylons before jumping away.
* Resurrection
** We know there was indeed a Resurrection Ship following the Fleet, which could even have FTL-capable transmission drones to transmit Boomer's consciousness to Caprica. A Raider may also have been able to do just that.
* D'Anna's documentary
** Again, a fleet of 2 basestars, associated Raiders (around 1,500) and a Resurrection Ship was following the Colonial Fleet. The Raider D'Anna called in didn't have to come from very far, and the signal could have taken its time. Also, D'Anna says "two Raiders were lost relaying it '''back to the fleet'''", which indicates the Raider transmitted the documentary to the Fleet rather than transmitting it to Caprica directly. The Fleet may have dispatched a Raider (plenty of them around, anyway) to jump to Caprica and deliver the documentary there.
* Tracking the tylium ship
** The Cylons are a long time behind on the Fleet. Note that the Cylons only get to the Fleet's previous location 6 to 12 hours ''after'' they've jumped away. Since the Fleet waits 12 hours for the Raptor to rendezvous with them, they only jump every 12 hours minimum. In 12 hours, a signal can travel 13 billion kilometers (=86,4 AU), which is a quite realistic distance to jump.
* Basestar communication
** Use Raiders as go-betweens. Every basestar has 800 Raiders, so they can spare a few.
:I still don't get the Tylium ship tracking. The fleet is trying to travel several thousand light-years to the Ionian nebula. None of their jumps will be just 12 light-hours, each jump will be a maximum range jump for the fleet, in a direction the Cylons don't in theory know. I can only see two ways to follow them. One is that the Cylons, in spite of everything we've been led to think, can tell where a ship jumped to by careful examination of the outgoing jump. The other is that they are getting information back from the target after it jumps. Of course there is a third -- somebody in the fleet is telling them the new coordinates, like in 33. Which doesn't explain them showing up at the old location 6 hours later. I didn't include another instance of FTL communication I suspect is taking place, as it's much more speculative. The Cylon god and/or the other powers manipulating events do seem to be communicating at will with both the colonials and the Cylons and their hybrids. But we have not yet been shown final info on the reality of the Cylon God and the inner Six, so that remains more a speculation.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 21:04, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
::You're right, I forgot the nebula was thousands of lightyears away. I'll [[BW:OC|ask Bradley Thompson]] how the Cylons are able to track a ship that's jumped several lightyears within 12 hours. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 03:35, 25 March 2007 (CDT)

I suggest this article be revised to say "''possible'' FTL communication", since there is a plausible alternative in each case. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 10:27, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

:The article says that the Cylons ''might'' have FTL communication. It isn't definite, but just lists possible evidence. It's true that the Cylons could follow the Fleet in a really short distance. But personally I really have the impression that they are hanging several star systems behind.
:However, I don't really see any concrete evidence for basestars communicating with each other. And that would the best situation to use Raiders as relays. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:48, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

:: Nothing more to add here, other than the fact that the only instance of two basestars communicating to each other is "[[Torn]]", where the Baltarstar receives communication from the hybrid on the infected basestar at Lion's Head. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] <sup>[[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]]</sup> 17:01, 21 March 2007 (CDT)
: Yeah, the page is here for people to list examples of potential FTL communications, or definite ones if we find them. FTL via raider-messenger only works to a ship if you know where it is to jump to it. That requires all ships to constantly send raiders back every time they jump to keep central command aware of all their movements. Possible, but pretty difficult. I must admit it is never explained why it takes 33 minutes to re-track the fleet each time. As for 33, recall that the Carrier fails to jump, and 33 minutes later, no Cylons, and this is why they suspect the ship. Had the transmission been pre-jump, there would have been a Cylon attack 33 minutes later, and then no attack 66 minutes later. This strongly suggests the OC is transmitting somehow from the new location. The Cylon resurrection ship can't be just a short distance away all the time -- it's quite big, I would have to believe they would see it (with optical telescopes) as well as detect any radio noise etc. Tracking the mining ship is harder -- there is no way to track a lightspeed signature unless you get very close to it first. Everything we've seen suggests you can't tell where a ship jumped to by watching it jump, else we would have seen double-jumps every time they flee the Cylons etc. There is clearly a distance limit on Cylon FTL and resurrection. The ship in Torn that is infected is many light years away, and IIRC they move ships to stop them from resurrecting. If it were their own isolated resurrection ship for just that tiny area of space at lightspeed, no need to do that. In fact, one wonders how the dead basestar sent word of the infection if its raiders were disabled, except via FTL.--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 04:29, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
::Oh yeah, one other note about 33. There is no need to consider a distant Cylon ship in this episode. Each time they jump, the immediate area has many Cylon ships. If the Cylons on board the Olympic Carrier were transmitting the new jump location before they jump, it would be received immediately by the Cylons attacking the fleet. The Cylons could then jump immediately to follow if that were their desire. They are either waiting 33 minutes to jump deliberately, or some other factor causes their jump to be delayed until 33 minutes after the Carrier's arrival rather than its departure. While no reason for this is given, possibly the FTL signal from the carrier at its new location takes 33 minutes to reach the Cylon attack fleet light years away. (This could be something about FTL we don't know, or time to triangulate.) If the Carrier's flight crew are Cylon, they can of course just retransmit the jump coordinates after they get them, before they jump, to the nearby raiders. If alternately it's Cylon spies aboard, they would have to wait until after the jump, scope out where they are, and somehow signal the Cylon attack fleet. --[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 02:28, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

== Source? ==

I've read and re-read the article and the talk page on this topic to make sure I understood its message. The conclusions are ''possible'' and is something to note at least in [[Continuity errors (RDM)|the continuity errors]] article, just as when the Fleet's size "magically" grew from around 44 ships to 74 ships from the Miniseries to "33". Otherwise, there is no aired source that suggests an FTL component to their communications, only that the writers have not dealt properly with the relativistic effects of communication. This was apparent in the Miniseries during the 2nd missile attack on ''Colonial One'' where ''Galactica'' and the liner were apparently able to talk in real-time but had to be quite distant. Many many other instances have happened. "Possible" does not equal ''probable'', which is supported by ''and explained in a marginal or passive fashion'' by episode events.

Here are two items: Cylon resurrection has yet to explain its communication method and its technology (a wireless transmitter in the body), which, I feel, would need a little insight before determining how fast transmission can go. The second involves D'Anna's documentary. Transmission to a nearby Raider is, of course, cited. ''How'' D'Anna did this without tripping off Colonial monitoring (which has also been established in season 1 and 2 episodes) is one thing, but it is more plausible to suggest that such a transmission is picked up by a out-of-range-to-DRADIS Raider after a few minutes (such a transmission would go approximately 200 million miles in about 16 minutes), then it jumped to Caprica with the film. I should add a third: Boomer was killed while a Cylon fleet followed ''Galactica''. After the Fleet left, the slower download transmission of Boomer would get to the Resurrection Ship in it as it entered the same relative space where the battlestar existed as it continued its pursuit of the Fleet. And nothing supports the notion that Boomer was resurrected on anything ''other'' than a resurrection ship as yet. Her consciousness, like any other data, could be stored for later reintegration, or she was simply flown to Caprica after resurrection. I don't remember any citation as to where she was. I'm sorry, but there are too many "possibles" here. I like the article's noting of questioning what is going on with this apparent speed of communication. I don't, however, like to draw it into plausibility since FTL communication isn't a plausible just because ''we say it is here''--that's classic fanwanking. These are a series of large gaping continuity errors that we can't explain away like this and should leave be for now except as an error (with maybe asking a question [[BW:OC|to Bradley]]). Comments? --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 08:04, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

:I don't think this belongs to "continuity errors". There is nothing that outright says that all communication in the series is bound by the speed of light. It's just what one would assume, and personally I'd prefer it that way.
:That a transmission is sent at the SOL and then picked up by the Cylon fleet after jumping into range, still requires that this fleet finds out the position of the rag tag fleet. How can that method be used to track the Fleet if they don't know where they are in the first place? It can explain the resurrection if the position of the Fleet is known, but not the tracking. --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 08:44, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
::''Somehow'', the Cylons managed to track the Fleet, and Pegasus managed to track that Cylon fleet without the Cylons noticing. The latter is interesting; it means the Colonials can track a fleet unnoticed just as well as the Cylons can. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 11:07, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

:::The essay from RDM, [[Naturalistic science fiction]], states his goal: "The speed of light is law and there will be no moving violations." We, as contributors, '''cannot make assumptions based on our own desires or status quo from other SF''' if we want Battlestar Wiki to be a factual encyclopedia and not a repository of essays. As noted in series history, the Cylons have almost ''always'' tracked, if not followed the Fleet, if only to ensure they would be in the general vicinity to capture a resurrection signature from a killed agent as they [[A Measure of Salvation|all feared permanent death]]. Plenty of episodes note this. We don't know how (or why) the Cylons are able to track, but they do. And even if the Cylons have only a general location where the Fleet is, the fact that an EM signal expands outward for millions of miles means that they can pick it up rather conveniently. If ships can't move at the speed of light (which they '''don't''', emphasizing the series' seriousness about this point), then communications don't either. The issues with downloading and communications is a cinematic conceit for keeping the audience from boring, plodding, overly scientific plot lines and is likely a necessary continuity error until we get some hard "facts" about its nature. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:15, 22 March 2007 (CDT)
:Well, there is obviously FTL communication -- by means of FTL jump -- so I don't think RDM, in talking about the speed of light being a law, is saying there is no FTL. How could he be? We haven't been told explicitly the means of Cylon communication or downloading so I thought it would be worth a page to collect various instances of FTL communication (be they by jump or some FTL communication device -- there is no difference, causality wise) and people could use that as a resource. It may be that after you look at all the examples of FTL communication you conclude they are all based on raiders making jumps. I think it's a pretty big speculative claim to suggest that the Cylons have always had resurrection reception ships within a few light hours or light days of the fleet, when the fleet keeps jumping light years. I mean, I have speculated myself that the Cylons are indeed always in range of the fleet and deliberately don't attack because they have another agenda -- but I consider that to be unproven speculation at this point. In the show, I'm had to presume the assumption the Cylons are searching for the Fleet. This may turn out to be wrong. But there is FTL communication, and the Cylons have a system set up for it (be it with jumping raiders or otherwise) so it seemed worthy of documenting. The Olympic Carrier incident (which I describe above) pretty conclusively requires either FTL signaling from the OC, or the Cylons trying to fool the fleet into thinking something, or a major plot error, of course. :-) --[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 18:17, 22 March 2007 (CDT)

::According to series information provided by Ron Moore, there is no faster-than-light ''anything'' in the Re-imagined Series. The lightspeed travel is, to the best of our information, "wormhole" travel. Nothing is supposed to move at FTL, just appear that way. Communications have a limited range (otherwise, why were Raptors used in "[[Occupation]]"? If FTL communications were available, ''Galactica'' herself could send or listen for a signal from almost whereever they were). I don't recommend trying to establish anything different from what the series creators noted before or as they developed it. Apparent FTL is not actual. Doesn't explain why or how the Cylons appear to have FTL communications, but it doesn't establish it as genuine. Again, this may be a conceit for cinematic continuity or a continuity error. Your ideas that the Cylons hang around away from the Fleet for various reasons is very plausible and supported in series events. The events of "33" may actually be something else than your assumption. Every ship in the Fleet has to get coordinates as to ''where'' to jump before doing so, so the Cylon's on the ''Carrier'' (possibly the pilot or co-pilot) are able to transmit this information before they jump. Simple, and effective. The reason that the last jump did not go through is possibly that the Cylon was revealed, but obviously was able to take over the ship and, again attempt to reveal the Fleet. The energies of a dying Cylon consciousness, like other EM, don't dissipate quickly and can travel over long distances, so the Cylons can get them at their relative leisure if they know the vicinity (light-minutes or seconds away) before the agent's signal attenuates too much from other EM. But nothing suggests, to my information, that the series'creators have changed their minds about this. I'll drop this question on the [[BW:OC|Official Communiques]] article and, soon, maybe we can get some insight from one of the series lead writers and co-producers. In the meantime, the article will go through its editing paces and stick around unless other consensus comes to play. I ask to leave the tag on the article, however, for administrative purposes so others know that the information is under some debate. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 17:58, 23 March 2007 (CDT)
:::Um, "wormhole jumps" are FTL communication. This is one thing that even RDM can't contradict simply by saying so, even in his own show. (at least if he is sticking to his naturalistic SF guns, any more than he can say that black is white at least.) FTL communication means information travelling faster than light (including instantaneously.) It happens all the time in BSG. The colonials, as noted appear to only do FTL communication by sending ships on jumps, so I am not sure what you are asking about there. I thought this page would be useful to document examples from canon where the Cylons exhibit or suggest a different technology, just as we have a page that talks about their superior technology for FTL jumps. If RDM has said the Cylons have no means of FTL communication other than sending ships on jumps, then these are just continuity errors as you suggest. But I now understand you delete just about everything I put into this wiki, presumably because you differ on the idea of documenting in the wiki canonical events which relate to the mysteries of the show. For me a key element of this show is that it contains mysteries, and I think it's good to have wiki items that focus on understanding them without speculating. So I'm ready to leave in any event, certainly if this page is deleted. As to the point about the carrier, let me try to be clearer. If the carrier is transmitting the location of the next destination before the jump using lightspeed communications, then it would have done so before it made the jump which failed to join the fleet. Whatever made the Cylons wait 33 minutes to jump (it's not signal delay -- there are Cylons-a-plenty in immediate radio range of fleet ships just before each jump) would have had them arrive 33 minutes later, no matter where the carrier went. Instead, the Cylons arrive 33 minutes after the delayed arrival of the Carrier. We're never given any info on what the 33 minute delay is about, of course.
:::It may indeed be the case that the ressurection download is the only FTL communication, but I'm not going to speculate on that. I simply created the page because I thought it would be useful to outline elements of Cylon FTL communication. If, after reading them, you conclude that the Cylons have always had ships just out of range of the fleet for the entire series, then that is a very interesting conclusion, and if the page helped you think about it then it served a valuable purpose. (I think the same is true of the page I made listing all the visions, compulsions and hallucinations that you deleted.) I'm not trying to fill the wiki with speculation but I do think it is proper for it to list collections of notable facts from canon that may inform people in their own efforts to understand, and yes speculate, on the show in other media. In fact, that's how I came to this Wiki, to find facts to confirm or refute a speculation I was making about the show in the online areas where I do speculate. The anomalies listed on this page may document Cylon non-ship FTL communication, or they may lead you to other conclusions, and that's up to you. (Though I still wonder how they could have used raiders in [[Torn]], which were infected, to send updates to other base stars, that's not explained by the Cylons-always-just-out-range theory)--[[User:Bradtem|Bradtem]] 02:21, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
::::As for the 33 minutes, RDM said it was meant to be left a mystery, because he didn't want to have technobabble like "Device Foo needs 7 minutes to complete its bullshit calculation, after which the total crap generator needs 20 minutes to... etc." Of course we can still speculate. IMO, there are three options:
*****The Carrier transmits a homing signal after the jump. In 33 minutes, the signal reaches the Cylon fleet, the Cylons plot the Carrier's position and jump. This means the Fleet jumps the same distance every time, which must be 33 lightminutes, or 3.96 AU (slightly less, even, because the calculation takes time as well), which is a very short distance in space. This theory explains why the Cylons jumped in 33 minutes after the Carrier's arrival, but is unlikely due to the low maximum jump distance.
*****The Carrier transmits its new position or its jump coordinates to the Cylons before jumping. The Cylons receive this transmission instantaneously, and need 33 minutes to crunch some numbers. They either have to plot the jump themselves (if the Carrier transmitted the new location) or convert Colonial jump coordinates to Cylon coordinates. This doesn't explain why the Cylons appeared 33 minutes after the Carrier's arrival. Also, 33 minutes is way too long for the Cylons to crunch the numbers: the Colonials were able to plot their jumps within 33 minutes (non-networked), and networking reduced their number-crunching with a factor 72 (from 12 hours to 10 minutes in "Scattered"). The Cylons are probably even faster than that.
*****The Cylons deploy Raider squadrons near every planetary system in ''Galactica'''s jump range. The Carrier's homing signal travels for about 30 minutes before being picked up by the nearest Raider squadron, which jumps to inform the Fleet. This explains the Carrier's last jump, but doesn't explain the constant time of 33 minutes very well. It's not very likely the Fleet picks a jump spot exactly 3.96 AU from the nearest Raider squadron 240 times in a row.
::::As to the basestar in "Torn", it isn't said anywhere that the basestar called in sick mere hours after it left. It may have been days, or weeks even. It could just have used regular communications. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]<sup>([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]])</sup> 10:45, 24 March 2007 (CDT)

:::::Don't feel like this is a personal attack, Bradtem, and I'm sorry if it seemed so. As an administrator, I take a more direct need in ensuring that all contributors (including myself) keep to the encyclopedic needs of the wiki, so speculation articles are given extra scrutiny by their nature. I do appreciate your efforts, even if I don't agree with them. It's contributions like yours that go through crucibles of discussion and debate and, often, come out as a valued article. Catrope and others are throwing in their two cents, too, and there is no rush to hastily remove this article as it has significant merit as a continuity issue at the least. We should wait for Bradley Thompson's comments and then we can reopen the issue with a greater light. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 12:15, 24 March 2007 (CDT)
== Possible Explanation ==
After reading the FTL and FTL Communications pages I've come up with an explanation, if the BSG FTL drive is "Folding Space" don't you think it's possible to send communications in a similar way [[User:Jordan Edmond|Jordan Edmond]] 19:27, 19 September 2013 (EDT)