Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

Talk:Kara Thrace/Archive 1

2007-12-04T04:31:50Z

Jonfucius:

As far as you actually see in the episode 'The Farm' there is only one new abdominal scar on Starbuck. This would suggest that only one of her ovaries has been removed, not two. The podcast may have more precise information, however.

:The phrase "[[CAG]] Second in Command" is a kind of awkward consturction. Can anybody think of a better way to describe her role? [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 21:41, October 16, 2005 (EDT)

:: I don't believe that she actually has a title. She's an instructor and Viper pilot... and a crack shot with a sniper rifle. (How she got ''that'' talent is likely a subject of interest...) -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 23:18, 16 October 2005 (EDT)

::: I agree on all counts. The thing is that we know she's understood to be in charge whenever Apollo is indisposed, but CAG Second in Command just doesn't sound quite right. I just don't know what would sound better [[User:Rocky8311|Rocky8311]] 23:27, October 16, 2005 (EDT)

::::Senior pilot after Capt. Lee Adama? --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:35, 16 October 2005 (EDT)

:::::Vice-CAG? [[User:Philwelch|Philwelch]] 15:45, 8 December 2005 (EST)

:::::: Military wise, she would be the Air Group Executive Officer were she second in command of the pilots. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:34, 18 January 2006 (EST)

==Verb Tense for Zak Stuff==
I reviewed the standards and conventions page, and it seems like the Zak Adama stuff really deserved the past tense since it occured "prior to the Mini-Series". The example in the second paragraph references Zak's funeral, which seems to be a pretty fitting example to apply here. So does all the pre-mini-series go to past tense, or are we going to 100% present tense (in which case we'd probably need to change the standards and conventions page). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:28, 18 January 2006 (EST)

: We can change the standards if we want (I mean--''we''wrote tham, after all), but I think it makes sense... As I was editing that, I was already getting confused about tenses and such, and I only really touched the one paragraph. Joemc72 and I already sorted it out on [[User talk:Day#Past vs Present tense|my Talk page]]. --[[User:Day|Day]] 17:31, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:: I went ahead and reverted it back. [[User:Joemc72|Joemc72]] 17:32, 18 January 2006 (EST)

:::SV is correct. Events from the miniseries on are present tense unless confusing. Flashbacks of events prior to miniseries and regular series should be worked as past tense. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:10, 3 February 2006 (EST)

==Paging Dr. Freud==

In the miniseries, Thrace doesn't tell Adama she doesn't ''have'' a big enough dipstick for his job, but that ''she's'' not a big enough dipstick. It's one line, but this is an unintentionally funny rendering of the quote... if you consider all the folks who were against Starbuck being a girl... [[User:Below|Below]] 16:20, 2 February 2006 (EST)
:Thrace has authority issues when crossed, yes. Not as cavalier about it as the original Starbuck, but then, this is a darker world. When compelled to, however, Thrace can obviously manage the work, even excel. She's still second CAG, now that Adama has returned to that status, and can effectively lead an attack as CAGs do, title or no. Thrace does have the "dipstick"; but she HATES having to deal with mentalities like Tigh. But she hates being out of the pilot's seat more, which gives her a greater sense of control than anything. I'd have Thrace plan any attack, anytime. And, in keeping with the dipstick metaphor, you can always expect her to be on top in almost anything she does. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:08, 3 February 2006 (EST)
Grin. I was thinking that an additional dimension to her authority issues was seen in the last few episodes. I think it would be interesting to integrate into this article if possible, but tonight's episode might have some more to say first. We know she had an abusive mother who served in the military, and identifies with her father. The Admiral is a positive father figure to her, but she's disgusted by Tigh, especially his drinking. (Was alcohol her mother's personal tinderbox?)
Enter Cain. On the one hand, Cain identifies with Thrace and gives her positive reinforcement: eg Do you always get what you want, I usually do. In my viewing, Sackhoff plays it as being both nervous and touched by Cain's approval. (Her mother had said she'd never account to anything: here's a much higher ranking woman claiming that she's capable of greatness.) Pretty clear that Cain wants to mentor Thrace, and sees a "younger self" in the pilot. At the same time, it's not a stretch to parallel the violent, volatile Cain with Thrace's absent, abusive mother. (Michelle Forbes would be a really interesting Medea.)
So Kara is being asked to choose between father figure Adama and mother figure Cain, and shooting Cain may feel like a kind of matricide.
Usually when TV shows or movies set up a young character against "two parents," one good, one bad, it's a young man torn between two fathers or father figures (witness "A Bronx Tale," "Platoon," "Star Wars", many others), so it's interesting to see that dynamic with a young woman. One more reason I love watching this show. [[User:Below|Below]] 11:18, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:Oh yes; for the past few weeks I've been repeatedly asking on the official site's RDM blog thread if they ''intentionally'' wrote it that Starbuck was won over by Cain because it was like her mother giving her the recognition that she never got. Of course, I ask a lot of things there....(I was annoyed when in his recent blog update yesterday A) people sometimes ask questions he's already answered many months ago (like, "Where is Boxey" and "Why don't we see the engine room?"), so B) he didn't realize this (I don't blame him, he's got a lot of work to do) so he wasted a blog entry answering questions that were already answered....except one, btw; apparently, the Presidential election is coming up soon. Probably not by the season 2 finale, obviously, but I got the impression he's playing around with script stuff for it now, and who knows? It might be the season 3 cliffhanger...or at most the season 3 finale. This, of course, would prove that they have indeed jumped several months ahead (once again, how could 2 months pass during Flight of the Phoenix?...but I digress....). --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 11:46, 3 February 2006 (EST)

:: How, you ask? Easily. See, all that we saw on the show was actually in ''fast forward''... See, for that month, Bill had decided that everyone was to do everything at ''one sixth'' of normal speed... Thus, all that took two months. I thought that was obvious. *wink* --[[User:Day|Day]] 03:01, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Scar==

What's with the "Kara is CAG in Scar" business? It looked like Apollo was still in charge to me. --[[User:Redwall|Redwall]] 00:27, 4 February 2006 (EST)

:Kara was responsible for briefings and I'm pretty sure I heard her referred to as CAG a few times in the episode. --Ltcrashdown 00:29, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::Negative, Lieutenant. Kat said to Kara, "The CAG wants us spread out so we can cover more ground. It's right here in the briefings." I'm pretty sure that's accurate, anyway. Someone check me. Anyway, I thought it was clear she was talking about Lee. Now... Why was she doing all the briefings? I have no idea... I thought for a bit that maybe Lee was on ''Pegasus'' doing some kind of fleet-wide-CAG duties, but ''Peggie'' was off protecting the Fleet, so he'd probably not be jumping back and forth to almost have sex with Kara and all that. --[[User:Day|Day]] 02:56, 4 February 2006 (EST)

::Because Lee has seniority over Kara (both are Captains, but he's been one longer, etc) he is in charge of their whole widescale operation. I mean, the guy can't be awake 24 horus a day and be everywhere at once. He needs to delegate duties now and again like this. --[[User:Ricimer|Ricimer]] 02:59, 4 February 2006 (EST)

==Serial Number==
It's partially visible on the dogtag she gave Anders in "Downloaded": ?? 462753 - the two question marks would be letters, and I think the second one is a T, but Lucy Lawless's hand is covering the first. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:30, 26 February 2006 (EST)

I found that Galacticastation has a great screencape [http://www.galacticastation.com/Screencaps/S2/218/bscap414.htm here] of her ID tag. Can you guys tell what it is? It's not a T, it's....I can't tell if it says "ser" for "service number" (thus, not actually part of of the number), or "3er"...which seems odd as this is lowercase.--[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 19:03, 21 June 2006 (CDT)
::My first impression is that it is "ser" for serial or service number for the reason it is not together with the number. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 19:36, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

:Yeah, but Helo has a "PK" prefix to his serial number and Boomer had a "T" prefix. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:07, 21 June 2006 (CDT)

: Just a note, in "[[Collaborators]]" we see the full shot on her id tags during her conversation with Anders. It is prefixed by "ser" (sans quotes). If anyone can get a screencap to confirm, that'd be nice. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:32, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:It says "ser 462753". Screencap here: [http://galacticastation.com/Screencaps/s3/304/lowres/bscap381.htm] --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 12:40, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:: Thought so. Thanks Serenity. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:45, 3 November 2006 (EST)

== Major Pre-Season 3 Revision ==

As with the central characters [[William Adama]], [[Laura Roslin]], and [[Gaius Baltar]], I've heavily concised this article, removing extraneous episode information, to prepare it for season 3 information. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 11:37, 4 October 2006 (CDT)
:I suggest marking this article for cleanup and revision. Kara's biography is still a bit too long and quite messy - it's actually one big unclear stream of facts. I think it should be divided into a few parts, significant and dividing episodes being "Kobol's Last Gleaming", "Home", "Lay Down Your Burdens" and "Collaborators". -- [[User:Spike|Spike]] 03:42, 3 November 2006 (EST)
:I agree to the cleanup and revision of this article, particularly the content added since season 3, as it is inconsistently written. (I've tried to clean it up, but a rewrite is in order for tone issues.) -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 12:29, 3 November 2006 (EST)

== Socrata Thrace? ==

I've removed this reference because the reference was far too vague; the reference pertains to Thrace's mother, "Socrata".

: ''[[Socrata]] (revealed in TV Guide Magazine)''

If anyone can be specific as to the reference, including but not limited to page number, issue number, publication date, et al, please feel free to add it back in. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 19:49, 19 October 2006 (CDT)

Done and done. I refrained from the context, though, because what little there is I fear maybe spoilery. --[[User:Mars|Mars]] 07:34, 11 December 2006 (CST)

=='''Kara Thrace DEAD?'''==
Now I'm disappointed in Battlestar Galactica. Starbuck was killed off Sunday night or at least we are led to believe she is dead. I like to think there is more to this than what was shown.--[[User:Avazina|Avazina]] 20:21, 6 March 2007 (CST)
:She is definitely dead, but that means nothing in fiction. You're probably right. Don't feel too disappointed; the classical heroes of Greek mythology suffered and died often to fulfill their missions. We're very used to our western heroes always riding off into the sunset to fight another day. Some day the sun will no longer rise. There was a bit in the episode that suggests that Kara is visiting the space between life and death; we'll see. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 20:47, 6 March 2007 (CST)
::Don't worry, she's merely ascended to another plane of existence. She'll be back next season as an Ancient. I mean, Final Five. Wow, deja vu Atlantis. --[[User:David Templar|David Templar]] 12:49, 7 March 2007 (CST)
:::There's two reasons I'm not accepting her as dead. First, there was heavy foreshadowing in Rapture and Maelstrom hinting that she may be a Cylon. Second, she did not die the way the hero with an important destiny is supposed to. If she died in Resurrection Ship, Scar or The Passage I'd accept it. If she got captured by the Cylons and died trying to escape I'd accept it. If she got captured by the Cylons, decided she had no hope of escape or rescue and killed herself in a final act of defiance against Leoben I'd accept it. I won't accept this until the final five are revealed. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 17:19, 7 March 2007 (CST)
::::I stand by my idea that she'll be the first of the RDM series' [[Beings of Light]]. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 11:27, 8 March 2007 (CST)
:::::Didn't she say something like episodes 13 and 19 will be very important for her character? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 12:53, 8 March 2007 (CST)
::::::Eick said that 16 (Maelstrom) and 19 (Crossroads Pt. II) will have a lot of revelations on Lee and Kara's romance. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 14:50, 8 March 2007 (CST)
:::::::I think that Starbuck will be back, but not Katee Sackhoff. --[[User:Gougef|FrankieG]] 15:19, 8 March 2007 (CST)
::::::::Interesting idea... how do you think they'd implement it? (If it were to happen, that is.) --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 15:25, 8 March 2007 (CST)
:::::::::I think the two most likely possibilities are that Lee or Anders finds a note or letter among Kara's belongings, or that Kara is revealed to be a Cylon. I don't think they'll recast her because it's a tacky and overused soap opera and pulp sci-fi cliche. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 02:00, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::Kara cant be a cylon because she was a child and Cylons do not make copies of already or once living people. --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 06:54, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::Kara remembers being a child. Baltar remembers being a child too, that doesn't disqualify him, and [[Sharon Valerii (Galactica copy)|Boomer]] also probably has false childhood memories. And Socrata could be another Cylon, or a hallucination, there's no proof that anyone other than Kara saw her. I'm not saying she's a Cylon, I'm just saying that the possibility hasn't been eliminated. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 20:46, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::AFAIK, Socrata served in the 1st war. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 21:52, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::::::Yes, Socrata served in the first war. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 22:22, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::According to Kara's own memories her mother was a veteran of the first war, I'm not aware of any third-party corroboration, and it's an established fact that Cylon sleeper agents have false memories. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 00:38, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::::::::Socrata received some kind of medal for service in the war. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 05:59, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::::And Boomer received elephant sculptures from her parents when she went to Fleet Academy. --[[User:Catrope|Catrope]]([[User talk:Catrope|Talk to me]] or [[Special:Emailuser/Catrope|e-mail me]]) 06:50, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
::::::::::::::::::There's a difference. There must be records in military archives of Socrata's medal (If any archives still exist, that is). Records that date back to the first war. The Cylons weren't infiltrating then. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 08:51, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
:::::::::::::::::::Who saw or heard of Socrata and had both the motivation and the opportunity to check the military records? We know that Boomer managed to get past any background checks and identity verification the colonial military may have used. We also know that colonial computer security was extremely lax during the fall of the twelve colonies. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 19:06, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
One possibility is that Thrace (in a past life as the Lord of Kobol, Aurora) helped ''build'' the Temple of Five, knew what the Earth hologram was in "Home, Part II" because she experienced it before, and that, while we may not see her again, bodily, Thrace will be the guiding force (through artifacts and other finds) that will be reflected in not-too-subtle messages on the path, leaving clues as to the clue's author (Thrace). Perhaps Kara Thrace, not Laura Roslin, is the "dying leader" in the Pythian Prophecy. Just a wild speculation, but it fits with some clues, particularly the Eye. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 07:40, 13 March 2007 (CDT)
:I still think Starbuck is the first of the RDM [[Beings of Light]]. --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 06:01, 14 March 2007 (CDT)
---Bruzer you know part of my theory but for everyone here I'll post it as well. I personaly belive it will come down to Starbuck being a "Jesus" figure from a Lord of Kobol I'm not 100% sure how the writers will make this happen but I think what we saw in that ep was her basically going to meet "daddy". The speculation about her being one of the final 5 isn't true, she is meant for much more then that. I also think in addition to the final 5 we will see the Lords of Kobol on Sunday, this will be the biggest shock of the year as well. You know how the writers like to take us, make us expect to be surprised one way but shock us with something new in the finales. We may even see Baltar be found not guilty, on a side note I think he's the same as Starbuck here but his "daddy" is who I will call Hades, the Fallen Lord who became the Cylon god. --[[User:Hentai Jeff|Hentai Jeff]] 05:49, 21 March 2007 (CDT)

==='''Kara Thrace is back!!'''===
I wondered how they were going to play out Kara's "Death" and I'm satisfied if not even more intrigued by the out come. Glad she is back.--[[User:Avazina|Avazina]] 22:39, 27 March 2007 (CDT)

== The Destiny ==

Not wanting to separate this into its own article, and knowing that this article may not grow for a while (if ever), I added some [[BW:CJ#Derived Content|sourced speculation]] on Thrace's destiny based on series information in an attempt to tie it together. Hopefully it may enlighten some readers as to the sum data on what is known and lead some insight for the character's actions in the future (if any). Ron Moore does [[Podcast:Maelstrom|note]] that the character's "destiny" was not merely to die in a Viper, so this likelihood of something about the character being revealed in season 4 is a probability. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 15:37, 16 March 2007 (CDT)
:As I have said. '''[[Beings of Light|BEING. OF. FRAKKING. LIGHT.]]''' --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 20:57, 16 March 2007 (CDT)

== Death Confirmed? ==
In the podcast for Crossroads, Part II:
"Did her death have any meaning? Her death didn't have meaning, but the resurrection of Kara does."
Looks like she really bought it. How the resurrection was facilitated is the big question... --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:38, 13 April 2007 (CDT)
:It could also refer to a symbolic death and resurrection. -- [[User:Gordon Ecker|Gordon Ecker]] 19:24, 13 April 2007 (CDT)

== Kinda funny ==

Some of you might find [http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/061226.html this "Sheldon" comic] amusing. I did. [[User:OTW|OTW]] 20:20, 18 April 2007 (CDT)
:Perfect. :) --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 21:45, 18 April 2007 (CDT)

== Young Kara photo ==

We should probably add a screenshot of Kara when she was younger somewhere here. It should be available from "[[Maelstrom]]". -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] - [http://www.sanctuarywiki.org Sanctuary Wiki — ''New''] 18:38, 29 June 2007 (CDT)
:Done --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 06:15, 30 June 2007 (CDT)

== By Your Command ==
While visiting [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maelstrom_%28Battlestar_Galactica%29 Wikipedia's article about Maelstrom], I noticed a neat trivia piece that I have confirmed independently. Right before Kara's Viper explodes at the climax of "[[Maelstrom]]", if one listens closely (on a DD 5.1 system or with headphones, if one has the iTunes download), one can hear the distinctive voice of an original series (or Guardian, as per the events of "[[Razor]]") Cylon Centurion say "By your command" (the word "command" is muffled by the explosion). At first I thought it was some sound effect used to illustrate the stress of the gas giant's atmosphere on Kara's Viper, but the words "By your" are clearly discernable. I'm not sure if this is something for placement in either the Maelstrom or Kara Thrace articles, so I will leave this up to y'all's better judgment. Thank you.

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-09-18T16:21:57Z

Jonfucius:

:: Archive from [http://www.battlestarwiki.org/en/index.php?title=Talk:Galactica_type_battlestar&oldid=47676 April 17, 2006]
== Medical Capabilites of a Battlestar ==

Peter,

Your assertion of "unfound speculation" concerning my contribution is uninformed and unfounded. I am a military medical planner and a published author. My assertion of the potential medical capabilities and requirements of an intergalactic warship (modeled on a US aircraft carrier), while hypothetical, is informed. Keep in mind these are requirements that the ship would have originally been built (not the "as is" state). At this point in the story line, clearly Major Cottle is the only doctor on Galactica, however we have never seen the Pegasus medical bay or any of its medical personnel. With established industrial facilities on Pegasus (Viper production established in “Scar”), the Pegasus would have evn greater Occupational Health / Preventive Medicine than Galactica. And if you do a walk down of the ancillary services (pharmacy (camala extract), orthopedic and x-ray (Kara’s knee injury), optometry (ADM Adama’s glasses), etc, you will see they exist even if they are not portrayed. Additionally, it was an Intensive Care Unit (ICU) bed, complete with ventilator, which William Adama was in during his multiple surgeries (establishing an Operation Room (OR)).

Capital ships are designed to go into battle, which means they will take damage and casualties. Often it is the ability to regenerate / repair / refit in the quickest amount of time that determines the outcome of battles. General Nathan Bedford Forrest of the Confederate States of America is famous for the quote, “He who gets there the fastest with the mostest wins.” RDM makes reference to his experience onboard a Navy ship in podcasts, including “The Captain’s Hand”. Thus, there is an established framework present.

I provide you two active hyperlinks that back up my contribution. While dated, they are still relevant.

http://www.mfp.usmc.mil/TeamApp/G4/Topics/20040916154046/Med%20Cont%20Factbook.pdf

www.iiimef.usmc.mil/medical/ FMF/FMFE/FMFEref/fs_man/CHAPTER%2014.html

--[[User:Killerman|Killerman]] 20:26, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

:I have no doubt that you are well qualified to speak about the medical capabilities of an aircraft carrier. I dispute their relevance to BSG, however. while they might provide a good baseline for guesswork, I don't think that simple guesswork belongs on this site. We don't extrapolate armament details based on the capabilities of modern naval vessels, for example. If you wanted, I wouldn't object to something along the lines of "we may conjecture that the medical facilities of a colonial battlestar are roughly comparable to those of a modern aircraft carrier" with one of the links you provided above; but I will not agree to listing out detailed specifications based on no in-continuity data. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:37, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

::''At last I went to the artisans. I was conscious that I knew nothing at all, as I may say, and I was sure that they knew many fine things; and here I was not mistaken, for they did know many things of which I was ignorant, and in this they certainly were wiser than I was. But I observed that even the good artisans fell into error;--because they were good workmen they thought that they also knew all sorts of high matters, and this defect in them overshadowed their wisdom;''
:::''The Apology of Socrates'', Plato

::Sir, none of us doubt that you know what you are talking about when you list the medical capabilities of a modern aicraft carrier. But this does not grant you increased insight into the inner logic of the tv series: First, we have no idea how many medical staff are onboard, and comparing it to an aircraft carrier is just speculation. Second, we have no idea how many crewmen a Mercury class battlestar normally has, as has been asked in the "Questions" segment of the "[[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]" episode guide article: Pegasus has 1,750 crewmen when it encounters Galactica, but A) It was going into drydock, and some of the crew may have left to the port, B) 700 crewmen died in the initial attack C) Cain impressed civillians she encounteed into service and most importantly C) Cain was fighting a hit and run war against the Cylons for months, which wore down her crew numbers through attrition. But I digress. Yes, we should object to a statement like "we may conjecture that medical facilities of a colonial battlestar are roughly comparable to those of a modern aircraft carrier". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:41, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

:::I guess you can object to that too, if you want. I was trying to compromise. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 21:48, 12 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I'm sorry Peter but this is a really good example of the speculation I don't think we should be inserting into this kind of article. There is nothing to be gained from such a compromise. I would if there were, and would like to, but I can't change facts. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 21:51, 12 April 2006 (CDT)

Peter,

As I am preparing to deploy for a year, please forgive me as I have packed all my BSG video. I grant you that the personnel numbers for a fully manned battlestar are informed speculation based upon a comparison to a modern aircraft carrier. I use these numbers as RDM has referenced a battlestar to a modern carrier, his experience in the Navy (podcast for The Captain’s Hand), Galactica type battlestar – article – dimensions’ jpg comparing a Battlestar to a CVN Image:Bsg-2-cvn.jpg on this very page. My professional training drives me to fill in unknowns with assumptions. That is what the personnel piece was intended and is consistent with other speculation within the Wiki, so long as it is said to be speculation (i.e. the actual working of an FTL drive). But sticking to the medical capabilities known from “in country (your term)” knowledge (i.e. seen on screen or in dialogue), we know much about Galactica. First, Galactica has a sickbay (Act of Contrition, Litmus). Exact bed count is not known, but is greater than seven (Act of Contrition). Based upon the burn victims (Act of Contrition) and treatment of William Adama (Scattered, Valley of Darkness, Fragged), we have seen Intensive Care Unit (ICU) beds, complete with ventilators, electrocardiograms (ECG), pulse / respiration / pulseox (shows percent of oxygen saturation dissolved in blood) monitors. We also have seen at least on operation room (OR) (Fragged), and subsequently confirm its existence with Kara Thrace’s knee surgery (Litmus) and Lee Adama’s chest surgery (Sacrifice). Concerning the radiology suite, we saw a Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI – incidentally, a very advanced piece of equipment) when Baltar had Dr. Cottle examine his head looking for an implanted chip (sorry, don’t remember the episode). We also saw conventional (chest) x-rays of Commander William Adama, during his surgery (Fragged, Scattered). We heard about Sharon’s ultrasound, as part of pre-natal health on Hera, where Dr. Cottle found an abnormality. And while not part of radiology, Hera, is placed in a Neonatal Intensive Care Unit (NICU) incubator, when is born prematurely. Next, we know it has a pharmacy. The President asked Dr. Cottle for Camala, the Viper pilots were taking “stims” (33, Final Cut) and Kara is taking pain killers for her knee surgery (Litmus) and latter asks Lee for antibiotics for Anders (Lay Down Your Burdens – Part II). Additionally, with the surgeries and burn victims, there are other pharmacological needs and a pharmacy is where these things dwell. Other areas that we have seen or know about are a morgue, where Galactica-Boomer was stored; a laboratory (to do support simple blood type and matching to support surgery), optometry with a fabrication lab (William Adama wears glasses and as stated in other areas of this site, battlestars are designed for sustained operations). We are also can infer that Galactica has some preventive medicine / occupational health capability because in “Water”, there was a discussion about water recycling (leading to potable water). It is Preventive Medicine that does this task.

I would like to add that RDM and SciFi do a heck of a job weaving into the background all these things. As an experienced health services officer with over 22 years in the health care field, there is a tremendous amount of detail that happens in the background. If I was a casual observer, I might miss or not care about some of these things. As someone headed into harms way, I assure you that our fighting forces moral is impacted combat health support. I absolutely belive we need to address the medical capabilities of a battle star. The propose the best way is start with what it would look like at full strenght / desired capability. Clearly, Season 3 will start with two grossly undermanned battlestars, with very limited offensive combat capability.--[[User:Killerman|Killerman]] 22:10, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

:The citations you've provided make it much easier to include this information, and I thank you for taking the time to write this all out. The addition should improve the article considerably. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 22:21, 16 April 2006 (CDT)

::I am sorry, but this doesn't change much: the above information was gleaned from things we've seen on screen, and is thus informative and useful. However, the original entry to this article he made (speculative medical numbers, etc.)...isn't supported by any of these citations. Basically, they're two separate issues and should be treated separately. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 00:48, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

:::Reverting to Killerman's last version isn't a good idea, but he (or we) can refactor his contribution using the points and evidence he raised above. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:57, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

::::Oh yes yes, something new and revised. Yes. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 01:24, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Manufacture vs. Assembly of Ammunition ==
The "assembly" activities that take place in [[Epiphanies]] would fall into the realm of "production", depending on how you look at it. It seemed like they were loading the casings (I thought RDM said they were going to use caseless ammo) with powder, seating the primer and inserting the bullet, turning the various components into a cartridge. Whether or not they produced the individual components (metal for bullets and casings would be easy, compounds for primers and powder probably harder to obtain), the act of putting those bits together would often be considered "manufacturing" ammunition. Not a big deal, and I didn't even change the text (since it's pretty debatable). An example of this use of the word is in this [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A4044-2004Jul21_2.html Washington Post Article]:

"''Israeli Military Industries said the ammunition will be manufactured in Israel but the raw materials, including propellants, projectiles and primers, come from U.S. sources.''
"

Once again, not trying to start a war, just wanted to weigh in on a subject I knew a little about (since they so rarely come up). --[[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 14:02, 17 April 2006 (CDT)

== Picture of destroyed Galactica-type Battlestar ==
Though certainly a model of a Galactica-type was used for the shot, it's clearly mentioned at the very beginning of the miniseries that ''Galactica'' is the only ship of it's kind still in service. The story places the shot only hours after the beginning of the attack, so it should be impossible that another Galactica-type (museum or mothballed in a reserve-fleet) could be readied for battle. Shouldn't the destroyed battlestar be taken as one of a third class between the Galactica-Type and Mercury-class, still looking a lot like the Galactica-type? [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 13:39, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:That was my impulse. Story logic dictates that the destroyed hulk probably wasn't a Galactica type, but in the real world we can surmise that Zoic probably re-used the Galactica model. Of course, from that distance, we could fudge our interpretation either way. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 13:50, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::They don't necessarily mean that there are no Galactica type battlestars in service besides the Big-G, it could be taken to mean none like Galactica, eg. non-refitted, no networks, etc. The battlestar there could easily (and belivably) be a refitted Galactica type. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:22, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::I concur with Talos, and that has been my understanding. Besides, unless the ship was simply overwhelmed by Cylon military brawn, an old-Cylon War battlestar would put up the same level of fight as ''Galactica'' would have. Else, it was just as vulnerable as the new battlestars. I agree, cinematically, that that Galactica model was just reused.--[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 14:59, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:::[http://www.skyone.co.uk/programme/pgefeature.aspx?pid=3&fid=642 Something to ask] the big man himself? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] 14:34, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I'll do that in a little bit, I have to pick up my brother from his band practice in a minute. The life of a college student living at home... --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 14:36, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I really doubt he's going to take the time to clarify such a niggling detail. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 14:39, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

It has always been my belief that Doral meant it was the only Galactica-type battlestar never refited. I always point to the ''U.S.S. Missouri'' (Mighty 'Mo) as an example of a ship with over 50 years of combat service that just kept getting refitted over time to the point that it was firing satellite-targeted cruise missiles at the end of its service. I think Galactica was just the only one that was never refitted. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 15:57, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:My point exactly. It's like the WWII era Essex class carriers. There were refits that were completly rebuilt but a few, essentially, originals survived until the early 1960s with the others serving thru Vietnam ([[Wikipedia:USS Oriskany (CVA-34)|USS Oriskany (CVA-34)]] for example). The [[Wikipedia:USS Lexington (CV-16)|USS Lexington (CV-16)]] was in service as a training ship until 1991! --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:26, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

::It's exactly the ''USS Missouri''-example why I believe that ''Galactica'' is the last of it's class: All four ''Iowa''-Class battleships were updated and they all were finally decommissoned (for now) between 1990 and 1992. If the ''Galactica'' is simply the only one not refitted one would have to ask why that wasn't done. Why would one refit three ''Iowas'' but not the last one? This usually only happens if a ship is somehow different from her sisters (e.g. having sustained heavy battledamage the refit is more expensive and not worth the effort). Also it could be that the fleet is being downsized, no longer needing all ships. An example for this would be the British [[Wikipedia:Illustrious class aircraft carrier|''Illustrious''-Class]] of World War II. Of these three carriers only one received an angled flight-deck, surviving the scrapping of the other two for twenty years. But in all these cases I find it hard to believe that anyone would describe one of the ships decommissioned first as ''the last of it's kind still in service'' if there others (refitted or not) still in action. Which ''Iowa'' would have been described that way prior to it's decommissioning: ''Iowa'' in 1990 or ''Missouri'' in 1992? Wasn't ''Lexington'' the last ''Essex''?
::What Doral says before and after that statement makes it quite clear that he's not talking about a certain detail (like ''last of it's kind without a network'' would have been). He starts with ''worldfamous Battlestar Galactica'', then ''last of her kind still in service'' followed by ''constructed 50 years ago as one of the first twelve battlestars, representing Caprica''. The only possible explanation for other Galactica-types this leaves would be ''Galactica'' being the last of the first twelve, with other Galactica-types coming from a second batch no longer representing specific colonys. But even then "last of her kind" is an usual choice of words to describe that. [[User:Nevfennas|Nevfennas]] 17:13, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:::Well said. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 20:04, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
::::I think it is still ambiguous, and we should wait for an RDM blog reply before changing anything. --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 20:54, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:::::I doubt RDM will respond to this issue, and I think the safest course of action would just be to remove it. There's sufficient reason to doubt that the hulk isn't a galactica-type that we shouldn't take a firm position on the issue. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 01:22, 25 April 2006 (CDT)
:::The motivation for no refit to ''Galactica'' could be nostaliga or historical preservation, explaining the odd wording; for such a purpose, only the unaltered version would count. ...Don't get the impression I believe that just because I said it. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]] 20:56, 24 April 2006 (CDT)
:Not to mention Adama, "It's a computer network and I'll be damned if I'll let it aboard my ship while I'm in command." (Paraphrased)--[[User:Talos|Talos]] 21:01, 24 April 2006 (CDT)

== Crew numbers ==

How do we know a fully manned and equipped battlestar has a crew of 4,000 to 5,000? Was it said in some episode or where do these numbers come from? I'm updating the [[de:Kampfstern, Galactica-Typ|german battlestar article]] and I don't like to use data that seems to be made up out of thin air. The links and notes provided don't give any hint about the normal crew number of a battlestar of this type. We apologise for any inconvenience. -- [[User:Astfgl|Astfgl]] 16:03, 25 June 2006 (CDT)
:In the Miniseries, Tyrol says that there are over 2,000 people on Galactica. The ships seems very undermanned at the same time so I would think that 4-5,000 is a good estimate. I'm not sure if we've seen any concrete numbers though, maybe in the magazine. --[[User:Talos|Talos]] 16:52, 25 June 2006 (CDT)

::Answer: in "Water" Baltar says how many civilians there are in the Fleet, and subtracting that from the total survivor population in that episode yielded the crew aboard Galactica as of "Water", at some number over 2,600 (I'd have to check). In several podcasts, Ron Moore keeps saying that while not on a skeleton crew, Galactica has about half the number of people on it that a fully crewed battlestar of its class would have. So, "between 4,000 and 5,000". --[[User:The Merovingian|The Merovingian]] ([[Special:Contributions/The Merovingian|C]] - [[Special:Editcount/The Merovingian|E]]) 17:38, 25 June 2006 (CDT)
:::Thanks for the clarification, I'll take these numbers then. -- [[User:Astfgl|Astfgl]] 07:37, 26 June 2006 (CDT)

== Flight tube counts ==
I see (in [[:Image:Bsg-2-cvn.jpg]], e.g.) 20 slots that seem like they might each be divided in half along the side of ''Galactica''. I can see why it is likely they are launch tubes, but I can also see many other similarly sized openings around them. Although it's a fine guess and quite likely to be true, I'm left hestitant that this evidence is sufficiently strong to be canon. In any case, if consensus is that this is canon, we should certainly footnote it, as the truth of the statement is not patently clear. --[[User:CalculatinAvatar|CalculatinAvatar]]([[Special:Contributions/CalculatinAvatar|C]]-[[User talk:CalculatinAvatar|T]]) 00:10, 10 August 2006 (CDT)

== Delivery of Nuclear weapons ==

Since the Cylon forces repeatedly use missiles as an effective delivery platform for their nuclear weapons, isn't ir relativel safe to assume- since, of course, the Cylons were created by the Colonials- that the method deployed by Colonial forces is also missile-based? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 09:22, 12 September 2006 (CDT)
:It's a good idea, and I personally agree with it, but there is no aired proof, and thusly we cannot confirm how they do it. The two Galactica nukes we've seen thus far (Baltar's and the one Boomer uses to destroy the Basestar in Kobol's Last Gleaming Part II) have been removed from their delivery systems. (Although Boomer's did look like it was in a bomb casing). --[[User:BklynBruzer|BklynBruzer]] 09:31, 12 September 2006 (CDT)
::Fair point. Perhaps we'll get clarificaion in Season3, since Galactica herself still has three nuclear weapons aboard. --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 10:06, 12 September 2006 (CDT)

== Galactica-Class? ==

Please bear with me for a moment as I am citing a magazine many of you may consider illegitimate. In the September 2006 issue of Maxim Magazine, the "Fashion" section of Maxim Style features a photoshoot of the RDM Battlestar Galactica cast modeling various fashions. In one photograph, featuring James Callis and Tricia Helfer in a small corner alcove of the CIC (possibly weapons control or some other station), a center console features the text "GALACTICA-CLASS BATTLESTAR" in two places, easily readable to the viewer. I know it is general policy on television shows that whatever is aired in a given episode is canon, and what is not aired, non-canon. However, would this (i.e., "Galactica-class Battlestar") be considered canon since this console is occasionally seen in a given episode? Or am I just reading too much into a simple photoshoot? --[[User:Jonfucius|Jonfucius]] 09:30, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
:Do you have a photograph of this? or a timestamp where we can check the DVD's? --[[User:Mercifull|Mercifull]] ([[User talk:Mercifull|Talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Mercifull|Contribs]]) 09:55, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
::I assume he means [http://bsg-cz.net/news/files/images/season_3/maxim_5.jpg this] but on that pic I can't really see it on the prinouts on the table. It does indeed look like the weapon's control room, though I can't recall the table there. The room can be seen very rarely. In the miniseries for example --[[User:Serenity|Serenity]] 10:06, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
:::I can barely make it out. Though it isn't canon, unless we saw it on the show itself, or if someone from the show were to tell us that "yes, indeed, ''Galactica'' is a ''Galactica''-class battlestar". Then it's canon. However, by all means, we can certainly put something in the notes section regarding this. -- [[User:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|Joe Beaudoin]] [[User talk:Joe Beaudoin Jr.|So say we all]] - [[Battlestar Wiki:Site support|Donate]] 10:17, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
::::That's definitely the weapons control section of CIC. If we can get a clearer shot, that will remove all doubt; it does look like "Galactica class" to me. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:57, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
:::::Something for [[BW:OC]]? --[[User:Madbrood|Madbrood]] 11:14, 18 September 2006 (CDT)
::::::If I had access to a scanner I would provide a high-res image to examine; unfortunately, I am a relatively-poor college student (and how many aren't these days?) and the only scanner access I have is a public-use scanner in our bookstore. However, the image Mercifull provided is the one I indicated in my first post. In my copy of the issue, the text clearly reads "Galactica-class Battlestar". I know this is a minor detail among many in a show so richly layered by the writers and producers, but I wanted to make sure the Battlestar Wiki was as accurate as possible; I use the Wiki to enhance my experience of this incredible drama. Thank you all for your timely responses to my question. --[[User:Jonfucius|Jonfucius]] 11:39, 18 September 2006 (CDT)

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-09-18T14:11:19Z

Jonfucius:

Talk:Galactica type battlestar/Archive 1

2006-09-18T14:08:32Z

Jonfucius: Galactica-Class?