Battlestar Wiki - User contributions [en]

User talk:Jasontondro

2005-12-24T17:15:40Z

Jasontondro:

Hi, Jason, and welcome to the wiki!

I understand your problems with the new series; it took a while for many of us to wrap our heads around it; so immersed were we all in the science fantasy schtick that successive SF shows did to our sensibilities. Not that the original BSG wasn't an interesting show, but it was a rather confusing mass of things that sometimes used technology to drive the story more than its characters. Thankfully there are plenty of TOS articles that could use your insight, and you have a home here for that as well as any thoughts on the new series. You might want to see the [[Naturalistic science fiction]] article to see Ron Moore's concepts about the show and why things are what they are. The SF show "Firefly" worked in a similar vein, and it made for good drama.

And, and [[Serena]]--who COULD think pure thoughts when you see Jane Seymour. ''Damn''. Have fun on the wiki. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:59, 24 December 2005 (EST)

:Thanks for the kind welcome. I do hope to help out on some of the TOS pages, though it is going to require the DVD episodes to be done right. One does not want to trust to the glow of intermittent memory on something such as this. I did read the Naturalism article and I certainly see what the creators are aiming at. What I saw of ''Firefly'', I liked, though Joss Whedon should have his license for "waif who secretely kicks ass" revoked for a few years, just so someone else can drive it.

:I remain a huge fan of ''Babylon 5'' as well.--[[User:Jasontondro|Jasontondro]] 12:15, 24 December 2005 (EST)

User talk:Jasontondro

2005-12-24T17:15:25Z

Jasontondro:

Hi, Jason, and welcome to the wiki!

I understand your problems with the new series; it took a while for many of us to wrap our heads around it; so immersed were we all in the science fantasy schtick that successive SF shows did to our sensibilities. Not that the original BSG wasn't an interesting show, but it was a rather confusing mass of things that sometimes used technology to drive the story more than its characters. Thankfully there are plenty of TOS articles that could use your insight, and you have a home here for that as well as any thoughts on the new series. You might want to see the [[Naturalistic science fiction]] article to see Ron Moore's concepts about the show and why things are what they are. The SF show "Firefly" worked in a similar vein, and it made for good drama.

And, and [[Serena]]--who COULD think pure thoughts when you see Jane Seymour. ''Damn''. Have fun on the wiki. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 10:59, 24 December 2005 (EST)

:Thanks for the kind welcome. I do hope to help out on some of the TOS pages, though it is going to require the DVD episodes to be done right. One does not want to trust to the glow of intermittent memory on something such as this. I did read the Naturalism article and I certainly see what the creators are aiming at. What I saw of ''Firefly'', I liked, though Joss Whedon should have his license for "waif who secretely kicks ass" revoked for a few years, just so someone else can drive it.

I remain a huge fan of ''Babylon 5'' as well.--[[User:Jasontondro|Jasontondro]] 12:15, 24 December 2005 (EST)

User talk:Jasontondro

2005-12-24T17:11:04Z

Jasontondro:

User:Jasontondro

2005-12-23T20:56:28Z

Jasontondro: /* Jason Tondro */

==Jason Tondro==

I'm a Ph.D. candidate at the University of California, Riverside with a specialization in Medieval lit, the Renaissance, and comics. I do a lot of RPG work and currently manage a fledgling RPG publishing company that has nothing to do with ''Battlestar Galactica''.

I watched the original BSG series as a kid and still have fond memories of it. It was not till long after the show was over that I came to understand some of the themes of the show that were not explicit, like the presentation of Mormonism. I remember ''Galactica 1980'' with great pain. Flying motorcycles, they burns us. Sometime in the late '80s I tried to run a BSG RPG using the GURPS system, but I did not do my research and it wasn't very good.

The more I read and learn about the new show the more I like it, though it must be said that I liked it when I first saw it. It certainly is much different, and there are some aspects I do not like. In particular, I find the Cylon "God talk" to be boring in the extreme, and if Number Six were to suddenly vanish in a puff of logic, I would not shed a tear. This is not to say I think the actress is not talented -- I have high hopes for the character of Gina.

What I admire about the show is its willingness to approach issues like 9/11, prisoner abuse, and the curtailing of civil liberties head-on. The cast is amazing, and their parts well-written. I do occasionally note that characters seem to always choose the tactic that leads to the most conflict with other characters, even when a simpler method is available, but hey. This is a drama. We need conflict.

I admire the way in which the show has played off of specific episodes or "bits" in the original series. The confusion regarding pyramid not withstanding, it was fascinating to see the return of the Pegasus, to see an episode in which Starbuck crashes on a planet, talks to and rebuilds a Cylon, and so on. I'm delighted Richard Hatch could participate; now if only, if only, we could find a good role for Dirk Benedict. That would be something.

In brief, no, the new show is not the same as the old show, and I Iove the old show with a naive purity. (Except for Jane Seymour. I may have been naive when I was that age, but I sure wasn't pure.) But the new show is prroving to be some pretty damn interesting television.

Cheers--[[User:Jasontondro|Jasontondro]] 23:36, 22 December 2005 (EST)

Talk:Battlestar Galactica (TRS)/Archive 1

2005-12-23T20:19:47Z

Jasontondro:

I hear that NBC may be trying to make a spinoff of BSG, focused on either the Caprica resistance or on the crew of the Celestra research vessel (a third option of following the Pegasus crew was abandoned). Apparently, NBC is jealous of SciFi, and of RDM's unwillingness to bring BSG over to NBC. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 01:02, 24 Jul 2005 (EDT)

: Well, I guess I've heard of more short-sighted things... -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 10:28, 24 Jul 2005 (EDT)

: That kinda...doesn't make sense. They should just be happy that they get the money from the channel that they OWN. -- [[user:yenguyen|YeNguyen]] 12:42, 24 Jul 2005 (EST)

::I think their reasoning is that if it were on NBC as opposed to SciFi, they'd get more viewers and thus more money - and if they had a show on each, then there'd be even more money than that. [[User:Kuralyov|Kuralyov]] 22:13, 24 Jul 2005 (EDT)

:::I've got the theme songs of the first and second season, but don't know how to convert them into an .ogg file, can someone help? --[[User:Blacklight|Blacklight]]

::::I'm afraid that we aren't going to be able to use them, anyway. For one, we need to have permission to use them anyway; as of right now, both themes are available on the season 1 soundtrack, and were we to post them, we'd probably get in trouble for copyright infringement. Something that I seriously do not want to occur. -- [[User:Joe.Beaudoin|Joe Beaudoin]] 21:50, 30 September 2005 (EDT)

:::::Ah alright, not a problem. --[[User:Blacklight|Blacklight]]

"sop vs. SOP"

In the discussion of the doctor's smoking habit. RDM calls this "my one sop to the idea of an idealized society". Someone well-intentioned added the definition "[Standard Operating Procedure]" after "sop", probably after looking it up on an online dictionary. Unfortunately, this is incorrect. "sop" in this case does not refer to the abbreviation SOP, but to the word "sop: noun, 1. A piece of food soaked or dipped in a liquid. 2a. Something yielded to placate or soothe. b. A bribe."

I simply removed the bracketed addition.--[[User:Jasontondro|Jasontondro]] 15:19, 23 December 2005 (EST)

Battlestar Galactica (TRS)

2005-12-23T20:15:02Z

Jasontondro: /* Official Statements */

{{shortcut|TNS}}
{{shortcut|TRS}}

A re-imagining of the original ''Battlestar Galactica'', currently in its second season.

==Summary==
Considered a "[[re-imagining]]", this series is a version of the 1970s ''Battlestar Galactica'' made more suitable to the sensibilities of the 21st Century. Tackling issues of civil rights, survival, terrorism, and religion, ''Battlestar Galactica'' is an epic following the survivors of the human race -- which number under 50,000. The ''[[Galactica]]'' finds herself leading a rag-tag refugee fleet on a lonely (and quite possibly, ficticious) quest for [[Earth]], with turmoil from within and danger from without.

==Cast==
===Stars===
* [[Olmos, Edward James|Edward James Olmos]] as [[Adama, William|Commander William Adama]]
* [[McDonnell, Mary|Mary McDonnell]] as [[Roslin, Laura|President Laura Roslin]]
* [[Sackhoff, Katee|Katee Sackhoff]] as [[Thrace, Kara|Lieutenant Kara "Starbuck" Thrace]]
* [[Bamber, Jamie|Jamie Bamber]] as [[Lee Adama|Captain Lee "Apollo" Adama]]
* [[Callis, James|Jame Callis]] as [[Baltar, Gaius|Doctor Gaius Baltar]]
* [[Helfer, Tricia|Tricia Helfer]] as [[Number Six]]
* [[Park, Grace|Grace Park]] as [[Valerii, Sharon|Sharon Valerii]]
===Co-stars===
* [[Hogan, Michael|Michael Hogan]] as [[Tigh, Saul|Colonel Tigh]]
* [[Douglas, Aaron|Aaron Douglas]] as [[Tyrol, Galen|CPO Tyrol]]
* [[Penikett, Tahmoh|Tahmoh Penikett]] as [[Agathon, Karl C.|Lieutenat Karl "Helo" Agathon]]
* [[McClure, Kandyse|Kandyse McClure]] as [[Dualla|Petty Officer 2nd Class Dualla]]
* [[Campbell, Paul|Paul Campbell]] as [[Keikeya, Billy|Billy Keikeya]]
* [[Juliani, Alessandro|Alessandro Juliani]] as [[Lieutenant Gaeta]]
* [[Witwer, Samuel|Samual Witwer]] as [[Crashdown]]

==Production Crew==
===Producers===
* [[Moore, Ronald D.|Ronald D. Moore]] - Developer / Executive Producer / Writer
* [[Eick, David|David Eick]] - Executive Producer
* [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Toni+Graphia Toni Graphia] - Co-Executive Producer / Writer
* [[Frand, Harvey|Harvey Frand]] - Producer
* [[Larson, Glen A.|Glen A. Larson]] - Consulting Producer

===Directors===
* [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Michael+Angeli Michael Angeli]
* [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Marita+Grabiak Marita Grabiak]
* [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Rod+Hardy Rod Hardy]
* [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Alan+Kroeker Alan Kroeker]
* [[Olmos, Edward James|Edward James Olmos]]
* [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Jonas+Pate Jonas Pate]
* [[Rymer, Michael|Michael Rymer]]
* [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Jeff+Woolnough Jeff Woolnough]

===Writing Staff===
* [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Sergio+Mimica-Gezzan Sergio Mimica-Gezzan]
* [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Carla+Robinson Carla Robinson]
* [[Bradley Thompson]]
* [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Brad+Turner Brad Turner]
* [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Jeff+Vlaming Jeff Vlaming]
* [[David Weddle]]
* [http://us.imdb.com/M/person-exact?+Robert+Young Robert Young]

==Episodes==
*[[Mini-Series]] (2003)
===Season 1 (2004-05)===
*1.01 [[33]]
*1.02 [[Water]]
*1.03 [[Bastille Day]]
*1.04 [[Act of Contrition]]
*1.05 [[You Can't Go Home Again]]
*1.06 [[Litmus]]
*1.07 [[Six Degrees of Separation]]
*1.08 [[Flesh and Bone]]
*1.09 [[Secrets and Lies]] (aka: [[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]])
*1.10 [[The Hand of God]]
*1.11 [[Colonial Day]]
*1.12 [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I]]
*1.13 [[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]
===Season 2 (2005-06)===
*2.01 [[Scattered]]
*2.02 [[Valley of Darkness]]
*2.03 [[Fragged]]
*2.04 [[Resistance]]
*2.05 [[The Farm]]
*2.06 [[Home, Part I]]
*2.07 [[Home, Part II]]
*2.08 [[Final Cut]]
*2.09 [[Flight of the Phoenix]]
*2.10 [[Pegasus (episode)|Pegasus]]
*2.11 [[Resurrection Ship, Part I]]
*2.12 [[Resurrection Ship, Part II]]
*2.13 [[Epiphanies]]
*2.14 [[Sacrifice]]
*2.15 [[Black Market]]
*2.16 [[Scar]]
*2.17 [[The Captain's Hand]]
*2.18 [[Downloaded]] (?)
*2.19 [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part I]]
*2.20 [[Lay Down Your Burdens, Part II]]

== Official Statements ==

* ''"Apart from the fleet, is there any chance that there are other survivers? Clearly ''[[Colonial One]]'' would not have gotten to every ship that was in transit and those that had [[FTL]] could have escaped as well."''

:We are talking about shows that deal with other survivors right now. Don't ask about the [[Pegasus]] -- I [still] haven't made up my mind yet.

* ''"Will we see any of the [[:Category:Cast (TOS)|origonal cast (sic)]] appart from [[Richard Hatch]]? "''

: It's possible, but not yet on the board. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* ''"Why [[frak|"frack" (sic)]]? Where did the idea come from to make this the new F-word? Not that I don't like it, I find it amusing."''

: It's straight out of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|original series]]. I dropped many other terms from the old show like "[[centon]]" (a unit of measurement) and "[[yahren]]" (year) because I felt they distracted from the mood I was trying to create and they sounded a bit silly to my ear. There was something elegantly lovely about "[[frak]]," however. There's nothing like being able to say my favorite four letter word on TV over and over again and I salute [[Larson, Glen A.|Glen Larson]] for giving the joys of frakking up, frakking off, not giving a frak, and frakking-A to the masses. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* ''"Why does the doctor smoke?"''

:Because smoking is cool. Don't let anyone tell you different, kid.

:Seriously, we're showing people doing what people really do and not all of their choices are smart ones. We smoke, we drink, we have sex with the wrong partners -- we make lots of bad choices and some of them we do knowingly and in full cognizance of the risks and consequences. Dr. [[Cottle]] obviously knows the risks associated with smoking and he elects to do it anyway -- that's his choice.

:I'm also frankly tired of all the anti-smoking p.c. crap that we're bombarded with these days and I decided that this was a world without all that. Call it my one sop to the idea of an idealized society, the notion that adults can make informed choices and not be nagged to death or run out of public spaces for making choices that others may not like or agree with. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* ''"What is the rank structure? It doesn't seem consistant with the Navy."''

:The rank structure is derived from the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|original series]]. I didn't want to change Commander [[Adma, William|Adama]] to Captain Adama or Colonel [[Tigh, Saul|Tigh]] to Commander Tigh, so I elected to simply embrace the co-mingled nature of the original rank structure. For our internal purposes, we've decided that the ranks are indeed a mixture of naval and army nomenclature and are basically as follows:

:'''Officers''' --
:Admiral
:Commander
:Colonel
:Major
:Captain
:Lieutenant
:Lieutenant (junior grade)
:Ensign

:'''Enlisted''' --
:Master Chief Petty Officer
:Chief Petty Officer
:Petty Officer (1st, 2nd Class)
:Specialist
:Deck Hand
:Recruit

:Just to complicate matters further, there are also [[Marines]] aboard ''[[Galactica]]'' which conform more closely to the traditional enlisted Marine ranks, with Sergeants, Sergeant-Majors, etc. Unresolved is the question of whether the Marine officers would also adhere to the mixed rank structure (which sounds odd) or if they are strictly army equivalents (which makes no sense given that the "Navy" ranks seem oblivious to there being any such distinction). Aren't you glad you asked? -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* ''"Will we see the mess hall and other parts of the ship such as the main Kitchen where all the meals are prepared?"''

:I'd like to. It's a question of budget; there has to be a story point or scene so cool that we just have to build this set. The Head (bathroom to you lubbers) was built in the [[33|pilot]] specifically so we'd have it around during the series. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* ''"Was this the first show to ever show a bathroom on a space ship?"''

:It's ground-breaking TV, baby. Talk about reinventing the genre. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

:'''Note:''' While we are uncertain as to what show as the "first" to show a bathroom on a space ship, we know that this series was not the first to do so. One of the few shows prior to ''Battlestar'' to show a bathroom was, in fact, a second season episode of ''Babylon 5''.

* ''"Minor question: was [[Galactica]] ever re-commissioned? As I recall, the ship was decommissioned right before the [[Cylon attack]]. It'd be nice to show the ceremony if they ever get a free moment."''

:It's an interesting point. Might be something to play at some point, but more really as an "Oh, I haven't thought about it, but..." kind of thing. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* ''"The question I would really like to see addressed is how to reconcile the underlying quest of ''Battlestar Galactica'' with actual scientific plausiability. The quest of Battlestar Galactica is to find [[Earth]], the 13th Colony. However, it is a basic and well-substantiated tenet of science that human life here on Earth evolved slowly from a primate ancestor. Attempts to deny evolution based on the notion that human kind deserves a far more worthy origin than what evolution details, are a diservice to the pursuit of scientific truth and endeavors in our own world. There was always that reactionary sense to the original series, which drove it away from a secure standing as *science* fiction. How will the new series avoid this pitfall?"''

:I don't have a direct answer for this question yet. There are a couple of notions rolling around in my head as to how we reconcile the very real fact of evolution with the ''Galactica'' mythos, but I haven't decided which approach to take. However, it was a fundamental element of the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|orginal (sic) ''Galactica'']] mythos that "Life here began out there..." and I decided early on that it was crucial to maintain it. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

*''"How did you come to decide upon [[Edward James Olmos]] and [[Mary McDonnell]] for their roles? This kind of project seems somewhat out of their typical genre - did either have second thoughts about taking on the project?"''

:Eddie and Mary were actually the archetypes for the characters when we were developing the series. [[Eick, David|David Eick]] and I used to sit around and talk about what kind of actors would play [[Adama, William|Adama]] and [[Roslin, Laura|Laura]] and we always talked about these two Oscar level actors as our dream duo for the series, but we never really thought we'd get them. They've told the story themselves of why they decided to do the project, but in essence, they really responded to the [[Mini-Series|pilot script]] and saw a lot of potential in the characters so they went for it, to our everlasting gratitude. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* "Are you using military advisors and if so, from what branch?"

:We don't have a full time military advisor on staff. However, we did have [[Blecker, Ron|an advisor]] on set during the miniseries, who also put the principal actors through a "boot camp" before shooting. I can't honestly remember his name or service branch (sorry if you're reading this!) As far as the scripts go, [[Bradley Thompson]], [[David Weddle]], and I provide a lot of the military technical details based on our own knowledge base. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* ''"I'll second the question - why is it that the paper in the Galactica universe has the corners cut off, even the tractor fed printer sheets! i just want to know."''

:This is a closely guarded secret of the show and certainly not a wacky design element that someone came up with during the [[Mini-Series|miniseries]]. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

:'''Note:''' It has been admitted by some of the production staff that this is, more or less, a joke that went overboard -- namely one derived from the fact that corners had to be cut in order to keep within the budget for the mini. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* ''"You mentioned that the reason that the ''[[Galactica]]'' was so low-tech was that it was designed to fight the [[Cylons]], who could possibly infiltrate it's systems, and that this was one of the reasons it survived. If that is so, then who were the other ships designed to fight? The 120 ships alluded to are a big force just for border patrol. Are there [[aliens]] we should know about? "''

:The first [[Cylon War]] came very close to wiping out the [[Colonies]], and so when the [[Armistice]] was declared, the government maintained a large standing military force for quite some time, just in case. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

*''"Mythos. Every science fiction show that stands the test of time needs to develop its own Mythos. By this I mean, its own unique cultural identity. For instance ''Star Wars'' has its Jedi, its Force; ''Star Trek'' has its Prime directive, beaming, and warps (sic) speed. As a writer you are aware of this and having worked in the ''Star Trek'' franchise are rather qualified in it. What will are your thoughts and insights into the development of Mythos in this new BSG child that you are tending to and caring for? Especially, since there seems to be heavy pressure to incorporate the original mythos themes of the show, will this be a guiding blueprint for thought, or just a framework to create? "''

:The mythology of the new ''Galactica'' is heavily influenced by that established in the [[Battlestar Galactica (TOS)|original]]. I've always approached this project with an eye toward taking the original material and making it work in a new context. I still try to do this whenever possible. Does it make sense that there would be a star system with [[Twelve Colonies|12 inhabitable planets]]? Not really, but that was in the original and at some point I decided to run with that as another nod to the old show. The mythology of the old show centered around [[Kobol]] and the thirteen "tribes of man," so I've kept it as the centerpiece of ours. Not every single element is the same and not every element is even intact, but the roots are there. The point was to make another version of ''Battlestar Galactica'', not just use the name. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* ''"I was watching ''Wing Commander'' last night with my wife and she made a comment that the Kilrathi fighter looked pretty similar to the Cylon Raider. I know that some of the production staff from Wing Commander went on to begin production on the [[Tom DeSanto|DeSanto]] continuation, but is there in fact any sort of link here? I mean I first thought Droid Fighter from ''Star Wars: Episode One'', but that seems to be some kind of common design going on. "''

:"Wing Commander" is frequently mentioned to me as a possible influence on the show, but I've never actually seen it. While it's possible that other members of the production team were influenced by it, it wasn't something that figured into my thinking. My own design influences were things like "Das Boot" "Blade Runner" "Alien/Aliens" and a stack of documentaries on the modern and history US and Royal Navies.

*''"My questions: Can the show explain a little more about their technology, for example how fast are the [[FTL]] jumps. It seems the fleet barely moves when not jumping, if the jumps are only light speed and not multiples of, some of the sublight ships could conceivably catch up (the ones not destroyed by cylons)"''

:An [[FTL]] Jump is nearly instantaneous, essentially moving a ship from point A to point B without travelling through the normal space-time continuum, presumably by bending space around the ship in some way. The analogy I used during production was to imagine three dimensional space as a flat piece of two dimensional paper. To get from one side to the other, you can travel in a straight line across the page, or you can gently bend the sheet in half and cross from edge to edge virtually instantly. How this is accomplished and what is the basis of this technology outstrips my technical brainpower.

:In fact, I feel faint just coming up with that explanation... -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* ''"Did the [[Twelve Colonies|colonies]] have outposts, bases, or trade partners outside of the 12 colonies. Did they even explore other systems. The colonies could have had observatories, listening posts, or even scientific research teams exploring other planets beyond the colonial system(s). They could encounter any of these which could lead to supplies, raw materials, food, fuel etc. "''

:I think that's probably true, but part of our premise is that the fleet has Jumped far out into unexplored space in an effort to elude the [[Cylons]], so we won't be encountered any other outposts or colonies. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

*''"Are there any similarities between your reconception of the BG universe and where you might have gone if you'd been given the reigns of ''Voyager''?"''

:There are similiarities in the premise of the two shows, so yes, there are things I'm applying here that I would've like to have done in [Star Trek:] ''Voyager'', i.e., lack of resources, the development of unique cultural and civil institutions, and internal strife among people trapped aboard ship(s) without any reasonable hope of finding sanctuary anytime soon. -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

*''"I have a friend who has a son and they both enjoy watching the new ''Battlestar Galactica''. But it is a very frustrating thing when he cannot allow his son watch the show when there are sex scenes and constant sexual innuendo scattered throughout the episodes.

:"The standard of the stories are superb and I would have to say it is one of the finest sci fi series I have seen in a long time. BUT IT DOESNT NEED SEX TO GET THE VIEWERS. Call me a little old fashioned but I nor others that I know really appreciate having to endure sex scenes that really do not further the story in any significant way. In fact I think they are rather pointless."''

:First of all, I'm sorry your friend can't watch the show with his son, but I always intended this series to be for adults. I have two small children, and I wouldn't dream of letting them watch the show -- mostly because of the violent content. Second of all, I disagree that the sexuality is intended to be exploitative or that it's somehow not integral to the story. We're presenting adult human beings as adults, and their sexuality is a key part of their lives. [[Baltar, Gaius|Baltar]]'s sexual weaknesses, [[Valerii, Sharon|Sharon]] & [[Tyrol, Galen|Tyrol]]'s forbidden love affair, and [[Thrace, Kara|Starbuck]]'s promiscuity are part of who and what they are. I think the only reason this gets the kind of attention is does is that we're not used to seeing sex treated maturely in science fiction -- nine times out of ten, any sex is either something to snigger at or to make fun of. Somehow it's okay to fetishize sex by putting women in S&M leather "space" outfits or have Carrie Fisher run around in harem clothes (not that there's anything wrong with that), but to portray two mature adults simply having sex is somehow controversial in sci-fi circles.

:I'd also point out, as I have many times before, the strange standards of American audiences, who can become red-faced with indignation over nudity, but find no problem with slasher films or chains-saw massacres. I mean, ''Galactica'''s premised on a massive genocide, and [[Mini-Series|the pilot]] deals with violent, shocking deaths over and over again, but people get upset about the sex? Weird.... -- {{from_RDM_blog}}

* Regarding the financial cost per episode of ''Battlestar'': "I can tell you that it’s well over one-and-a-half million dollars US per episode. It’s a substantial budget, especially when you convert it into Canadian dollars—and what we’re able to get up there—it’s a lot of money." [http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/pages/galactica/fashioningverisimilitude3.htm]

* ''Regarding a typical day as an executive producer on ''Battlestar'':''

: The job changes as the year goes on. Right now, before we start shooting, my time is spent almost exclusively here with the writing staff. I’m writing an episode at the moment. I wrote the first episode and I’m writing the second one. The writers meet by themselves…they break some stories…I come in and give notes…and we talk about directions for other episodes. Then, as time goes on, they’ll start generating scripts and stories, and I give notes on those. I’m also taking notes from the network and the studio on previous existing material.

: There’ll also be more of me going back and forth between LA and Vancouver. And as we get closer to production, then there’ll be more looking at production designs, dealing with budgetary issues, having meetings with directors and actors, looking at casting tapes for guest-star roles. Once we get into production and start generating film, there’s dailies to watch…post moves forward and there’s cuts of episodes to watch…and there’s visual effects sequences to give notes on.

: There’s not really a typical day, per say. You have to be nimble and on your feet and able to keep changing direction. You have to cover all these different bases, and sometimes you can’t run to first. Sometimes you have to run to third, and then run back home, and then run to second. It’s never a complete pattern.

: I believe very much in delegating authority to the department heads, in empowering people and having them take responsibility for the work. My principal job is to maintain the overall vision of the piece. [http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/pages/galactica/fashioningverisimilitude3.htm]

* From the "Fashioning Verisimilitude" article / interview on [http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com Hollywood North Report (HNR)]:

: '''Robert Falconer:''' And I guess the whole concept of the show, by definition, is that of a bottle show.

: '''Ron Moore:''' Yeah. And it was designed that way from the get-go. When [[David Eick]] and I went in and pitched it initially—knowing how expensive space opera can be—we designed it to be affordable on what we could get on a SCI-FI Channel budget. [http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/pages/galactica/fashioningverisimilitude3.htm]

* ''Regarding the use of bullets versus lasers on the [[Vipers]], as explained by [[Ron Moore]]:''

: [The bullets are s]ome sort of caseless ammunition. We had long technical discussions about some of this. What mattered to us was that they weren’t laser blasts. We just felt that had been done to death, it wasn’t as interesting, and it wasn’t realistic. From our research we discovered that such weapons would take huge amounts of energy, and that fighters would probably be better served by using actual bullets. But presumably they’re more advanced than what we’re using today, although we haven’t actually sat down and defined them as such. [http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/pages/galactica/fashioningverisimilitude5.htm]

* ''Regarding the reconciliation between [[William Adama]] and his son [[Lee Adama]] at the end of the [[Mini-Series]], as explained by [[Ron Moore]]:''

: I think it will go up and it will go down, like any father-son dynamic does. I think they bridged a gap in the miniseries that certainly had held them apart for a couple of years. I don’t think that issue has been completely resolved, but they’ve moved past it to a certain point. Now they’re in a new relationship and a new dynamic…they’re father and son and they’re also serving on the same ship, and the stresses and pressures of that will affect the relationship. I think it’s interesting that Lee Adama has a strong relationship with [[Laura Roslin|Laura]], and that he in some respects is a bridge between her and his father. [http://www.hollywoodnorthreport.com/pages/galactica/fashioningverisimilitude5.htm]

== See Also ==

*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_science_fiction A description on Wikipedia on naturalistic SF] concepts used in the series

==Related Topics==
* [[List of Season 1 Guest Actors (RDM)]]
* [[List of Season 2 Guest Actors (RDM)]]
* [[List of Recurring Characters (RDM)]]
* [[List of Recurring Character Appearances (RDM)]]
* [[List of Emmy Nominations and Wins]]

[[Category:A to Z]]
[[Category:Behind the Scenes]]
[[Category:RDM]]

Talk:Ellen Tigh/Archive 1

2005-12-23T06:00:54Z

Jasontondro: /* Lady Macbeth */

Unless you intend to change all of [[Saul Tigh|the Colonel]]'s single-name references to "Saul", Ellen Tigh gets to be "Tigh" when we refer to her by a single name, just like every other character on the show. Note that [[Laura Roslin]] is usually Just referred to as "Roslin".

Since the article is about Ellen Tigh in particular, there should be no room for ambiguity. Lee Adama's article should also follow this principle - it's clearly out of line to refer to "women and children" on a first name basis when trying to disambiguate them from their husbands and parents. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 11:13, 13 Aug 2005 (EDT)

::While I understand the need for consistency, I'm not sure if a first name used for disambiguation is necessarily discriminatory. Military culture often puts people on a "last name basis", even in informal settings. When multiple of a same last name are present, there is usually some effort made to use a different name for the second person. First names, nicknames, or other substitutes are often found ("Big Spiegel or little Spiegel").

::Perusing a sampling of wikipedia articles, I found that most main articles do use the last name in one name references. However, I found that wives often end up with the first name (or a Mrs.)
::Examples:
::[[Wikipedia:Eleanor Roosevelt|Eleanor Roosevelt]]
::[[Wikipedia:Martha Washington|Martha Washington]]

::The way the characters in the show refer to each other seem to be consistent with this. I can't recall Ellen Tigh ever being referred to as simply "Tigh," nor Lee Adama being referred to only as "Adama." While both of them theoretically have just as much right to those names, an admittedly arbitrary social convention substitutes some other name. I'm not spoiling for a fight or anything, just scanned by the article and was getting confused whenever I saw "Tigh." I guess the instances where this is actually going to be an issue will be relatively small. (So maybe I shoud just deal with it.) [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 17:12, 29 November 2005 (EST)

:::Yeah, you should just deal with it, SV. :) Their argument for the use of Ellen's last name in her own page was sufficiently convincing, so I made the changes throughout the article except where sentence structure would have made it too confusing. I won't be as "nice" in other articles, since the Colonel, not Ellen, is a major character and most use of "Tigh" would presume him, not her. --[[User:Spencerian|Spencerian]] 09:27, 30 November 2005 (EST)

::::An archive of the discussion is available [[Battlestar_Wiki_talk:Standards_and_Conventions/Archive01#Single-name_Address|here]]. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 23:33, 30 November 2005 (EST)

:::::While this seems to have been resolved and addressed on Tigh's page, Lee Adama's page seems to switch back and forth between Lee and Adama. In the "Reassignment" section he is referred to as "Adama", but in most other instances he is Lee (or Lee Adama). I think it reads fine the way it is (particularly in this "Adama" case), but I was curious if the principle should also be applied to that page as well (as suggested by the first post of this discussion). [[User:Steelviper|Steelviper]] 09:53, 1 December 2005 (EST)

::::::It should. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 10:46, 1 December 2005 (EST)

== Lady Macbeth ==

The first thing I thought of after watching the episodes in which Ellen gets her husband drunk and pushes him into command was the parallel to Lady Macbeth. I broke out my copy of the ''Riverside Shakespeare'' and did some casual research to help prove the point and I have added it to the end of the character discussion as my first contribution to the wiki. I hope folks find it interesting and helpful. -- JT --[[User:Jasontondro|Jasontondro]] 23:33, 22 December 2005 (EST)

:RDM mentions this connection explicitly in his podcast for "Resistance". I'll try to dig up the relevant quote. Thank you for your insightful contribution, although I fear your middle paragraph meanders a bit. --[[User:Peter Farago|Peter Farago]] 00:35, 23 December 2005 (EST)

::Yay! A bullseye on the first shot. Happy to help. --[[User:Jasontondro|Jasontondro]] 01:00, 23 December 2005 (EST)

User:Jasontondro

2005-12-23T04:36:34Z

Jasontondro:

Talk:Ellen Tigh/Archive 1

2005-12-23T04:33:24Z

Jasontondro:

Talk:Ellen Tigh/Archive 1

2005-12-23T04:31:29Z

Jasontondro: Lady Macbeth

Ellen Tigh

2005-12-23T04:27:34Z

Jasontondro: /* Cinematic Trivia */

{{Character Data|
|photo=[[Image:Bsg-ellen-1.jpg|200px]]
|age= 40s
|colony=[[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Gemenon|Gemenon]]?
|birthname=Ellen ?
|callsign=
|death=
|parents=
|siblings=
|children=None
|marital status=Married to [[Saul Tigh]]
|role=Civilian
|rank=
|actor=[[Kate Vernon]]
|cylon=
}}

'''Ellen Tigh''' is a man-hungry predator, and the reason, according to [[William Adama]], that Saul Tigh took to drinking. While her husband was away from home, she apparently "went through half the (Colonial) fleet" in her sexual promiscuity.

Estranged from her husband, Ellen Tigh claims to have been on [[The Twelve Colonies (RDM)#Picon|Picon]] at the time of the [[Cylon attack]], on her way back home for a reunion with her husband. When the airport was hit in the attack, she claims an anonymous hero found her unconscious body and got her on to one of the last transports out, where she had been unconscious aboard the ''[[Rising Star]]'' for some three weeks prior to Adama finding her.

Following her reunion with her husband, Tigh claims she wants to make a fresh start ([[Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down]]), but no sooner as Saul (still hopelessly in love with her) agrees, Tigh influences him back to drinking heavily and begins flirting openly with other men. Her first target was an unwilling [[Lee Adama]], with whom she tries to engage in a game of footsie under the table while she and her husband have dinner with Lee, his father and [[Laura Roslin]]. Later she flirts with [[Gaius Baltar]] with greater effect - annoying her husband in the process.

Not only are her claims of being rescue considered suspect - no one on the ''Rising Star'' can remember treating her through her long weeks of unconsciousness - Tigh takes an unnatural interest in Adama's plans to lead the fleet to Earth, almost badgering him into trying to reveal how long the journey will take. Her actions seem to support Adama's precaution of having Baltar scan Tigh's blood sample to see if she is a Cylon (unbeknownst to Saul).

While Tigh's mischief-making could be put down to her nature, and so hidden desire to drive a wedge between her husband and Adama, she does appear to be human, according to Baltar's tests, and this has quieted Adama's suspicion. However, unbeknownst to all, Dr. Baltar has sabotaged his own Cylon detection efforts; fearing that exposing a Cylon agent would make himself a target for assassination, Dr. Baltar now lets everyone "pass" the Cylon test, regardless of the test's true result. Tigh's status as a human or Cylon remains an open question, but as Commander Adama pointed out, "Cylon or not, she's nothing but trouble"...

==Involvement with Tom Zarek==

During [[Colonial Day]], Tigh states her belief that terrorist-turned-politician [[Tom Zarek]] is "the future", and greets him warmly over her husband's objections. Later on in the next day, after [[Wallace Grey]]'s poor showing at the Quorum, Zarek pours her a drink.

:Tigh: So you worried about Wallace Grey? I hear he's ahead in the vote count. 
:Zarek: Whatever the people want is fine by me. 
:Tigh: Everyone has an agenda. I know I do. 
:Zarek: And what would that be? 
:Tigh: Same as yours, Tom. Me, myself, and... ooh. I. 
:Zarek: You are... clearly a well connected, well informed woman. 
:Tigh: Wife of the XO, for whatever that's worth. 
:Zarek: Ah. Quite a bit. Now, and in the future. 
:Tigh: That's what I'm interested in, Tom. It's my place, and my... husband's place in the future. 
:Zarek: Okay. I'm looking for a friend of mine. His name is [[Valence]].

Valence is found dead immediately thereafter. Saul Tigh was among the only individuals privy to the location he was being held. The following evening, at [[Gaius Baltar]]'s victory celebration, Zarek slyly comments to Roslin "Ah, one thing you should know. I didn't kill Valence. I wonder who did?" Shortly thereafter, Tigh dances with her husband and tells him:

:Tigh: I have a surprise for you. 
:Saul: Uh-oh. Should I be worried? 
:Tigh: Not unless you consider a day in a luxury suite aboard the [[Rising Star]] something to be worried about. 
:Saul: How did you swing that? 
:Tigh: I have my ways. What you need to do is to figure out a way to get slave-driving [[William Adama|Bill]] to give you the day off. And while we're there, you might want to talk to a few people about... your future. 
:Saul: What? 
:Tigh: Later, my love. It can all wait until later.

She then embraces her husband and locks eyes with Zarek, seated across the room.

The general subtext of these scenes is not difficult to determine: Ellen Tigh furnished Zarek with the information he needed to arrange Valence's death (or as Zarek implies, arranged it herself) in return for favors with Zarek's cronies. More difficult to determine is what the nature of these was intended to be. Two days later, Adama is shot at by the [[Humano-Cylon]] infiltrator known as [[Sharon Valerii]] and the entire [[Fleet]] is thrown into chaos ([[Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part II]]). Saul becomes the acting commander of ''[[Galactica]]''.

Although this turn of events is certainly beneficial to Ellen from her own standpoint, and possibly even to Zarek as it gives him another opportunity to vocally oppose an unpopular government, it is difficult to imagine Zarek having anything to do with it, given the identity of Adama's would-be assassin. If, however, Ellen Tigh is indeed a Cylon agent, she could easily have had the means to predict this, if not as clear a motive.

==Martial Law==

After Adama's attempted assassination, Tigh encourages (some viewers may say "nags") her husband to take extreme measures to assert his authority, sometimes in contrast to the more reasoned approaches he was proposing. While Saul seems to shy away from having authority, Tigh is intoxicated by the idea. Given Zarek's known views, Ellen Tigh may be influencing her husband's rule into a strong-handed military dictatorship in order to give Zarek the perfect opportunity to raise support among the fleet. Ellen convinces Saul to let the [[Quorum of Twelve]] witness the delusional Roslin, who she saw earlier in poor state. But, thanks to a smuggled [[Chamalla]] dose, Roslin shows her resolve and power, which invigorates the Quorum, although it appears to throw off any plans that Zarek had in the political presidential game. Frustrated of the civilian government's popularity, Saul Tigh later declares martial law to subdue protests by other Colonial government members on Roslin's arrest, particularly by the Quorum of Twelve ([[Fragged]]). Tigh would continue to spur on Saul to ill-advised behavior. Col. Tigh began to relent and consider reconciliation with the captains of other ships in the Fleet, but Tigh goaded him into advocating "stern measures" instead, which eventually led Col. Tigh to try to forcibly re-take supplies from unwilling ships, leading to the incident on the ''[[Gideon]]'' that left four people dead. Soon after, [[Lee Adama|Apollo]] escaped with President [[Laura Roslin]] from the [[brig]], and fled in a [[Raptor]]. Col. Tigh could not bring himself to fire on Commander Adama's son, and was receiving a scolding from Tigh in his quarters when the recently awakened Commander Adama arrived. Ellen slinked away, her hand gripping the door frame fiercely in frustration of her turn of fortune as she leaves ([[Resistance]]).

==Assassination Attempt==
Lt. [[Joe Palladino|Joe "Hammerhead" Palladino]] later attempted to exact revenge on Col. Tigh for the Gideon incident, forcing his way into Tigh's quarters and tying up Ellen, then holding Saul at gunpoint. However, Col. Tigh was able to difuse the situation ([[Final Cut]]).

==Unanswered Questions==

*Did Tigh arrange for Valence's death herself, or just provide his location to a third party?
*What favors did she receive in return? What did she intend Saul to discuss on the [[Rising Star]], and with whom?
**Does her choice of a "getaway spot" have anything to do with her mysterious appearance aboard that ship four weeks earlier?
*How surprised was she by Zarek's defeat? Is her association with him still advantageous to her?
*Is Ellen Tigh a Cylon operative? ''(This would stretch believability, according to [[Ron D. Moore]]. See the [[Humano-Cylon#Ellen Tigh?|speculated infiltrators]] section of the Humano-Cylon article for more.)''
**If not, how does the attempt on Adama's life impact her plans?
**If so, what would be her motive for advancing her husband's position?
***Is there evidence for cooperation between Zarek's people and the Cylons, or manipulation of one by the other?
***Perhaps she is attempting to create internal strife by playing hardliners such as Saul and Zarek against one another.
***When Col. Tigh was elevated to the position of sole commander, as per Ellen's wishes, the Fleet degenerated into self-destructive chaos because of the poor command decisions he made. Many of these decisions were made as a result of Ellen's manipulations. Even when things turned horribly violent and even Col. Tigh wanted to stop the downward spiral, Ellen couldn’t seem to care less and just continued with her manipulations. Perhaps spreading chaos was her true intention all along.

==Cinematic Trivia==
In the DVD commentary for the [[Mini-Series]], it is revealed that Ellen was originally portrayed in picture form only by executive producer [[David Eick]]'s wife, Jennifer. The picture was later replicated for the series with Kate Vernon taking the place of Mrs. Eick.

==The Macbeth Connection==
Mrs. Tigh can be profitably compared with one of Shakespeare's most memorable women. Like Lady Macbeth, Ellen is married to a man who is in the line of command, but who doesn't want the top job. She uses a combination of insult, flattery, and sexual temptation to get her husband in the game, arranges the murder of others, and even makes alcohol one of her most potent weapons (in the play, Lady Macbeth gets the castle guards drunk so that she and her husband can kill the king and princes). In the words of Lady M herself, to her husband, "Hie thee hither, that I may pour my spirits in thine ear, and chastise with the valour of my tongue all that impedes thee from the golden round."

In fact, of all Shakespeare's plays, ''Macbeth'' is a particularly appropriate one for a series about evil robots who seem human on the outside ("fair is foul and foul is fair"), who are experts at lying and manipulation ("And oftentimes, to win us to our harm, the instruments of darkness tell us truths, win us with honest trifles, to betray us'n deepest consequence"), and who chase our heroes through the gulf of space (at least one scholar has noted that all of the play's most memorable scenes "take place either at night or in some dark spot"). Like Macbeth himself, [[Tigh]] is famous for a bout of vicious hand to hand fighting in the recent war ("For brave Macbeth ... disdaining Fortune, with his brandish'd steel which smok'd with bloody execution ... carv'd out that passage").

It is tempting to attempt to extrapolate future plot points based on the Tigh-Macbeth analogy, but we must remember that so far Saul seems to have resisted his wife's manipulations better than his Shakespearean forbear. Nonetheless, this does help to supply a motivation for Ellen's actions: she doesn't have to be a Cylon to be victim to envy, the "green ey'd monster."

[[Category:A to Z|Tigh, Ellen]]
[[Category:Characters|Tigh, Ellen]]
[[Category:RDM|Tigh, Ellen]]